you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go it on the top right corner. I'm going to put it on the top right corner. I'm going to put it on the top right corner. I'm going to put it on the top right corner. I'm going to put it on the top right corner. I'm going to put it on the top right corner. I'm going to put it on the top right corner. I'm going to put it on the top right corner. I'm going to put it on the top right corner. Hello. Good evening. My apologies. Go ahead and call the quarter order. The planning is on the board meeting for the city South Miami for Tuesday, September 10th. First order of businesses. the I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do it. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do it. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do it. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do it. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do it. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do it. I'm not. Danny Rodriguez. Michelle really. Hold that one second. Oh, window. Michelle, do you have it open on your phone also? Yeah, I'm going to go, I'm sorry. You need to have only one mic please. Okay. Jay Miller. Augustin Borough. Chair closing. Daniel Garrell. I think I don't see any other board members on. Okay. I understand. You're in the room. You're in the room. Thank you. And yet there's no administrative matters. I heard there was a request to defer the first item, which was the drive ordinance. And here the semi ordinanceordinced first that is correct is the applicant for the shop sense and pledge request that they be moved forward that's a decision for you and the board to make okay I don't have a problem just to be clear chair I think it's to take it out of order okay I'm sorry take it out of order my apologies do you need a motion for that mr. attorney um you can my apologies. Do we need a motion for that Mr. Attorney? You can. It's a log of the chair. Okay. Chairman, you can decide. The motion to move up. Yeah. Item for Sony first. Oh, second. Yeah, those in favor say aye. Aye. Okay. Alright. So this is item PB-24-020. Applicant is in midtown development LLC. A resolution of the mayor in the city commission of the city of South Miami. My before they're proving or denying an application for initial site plan approval pursuant to section 20 to ask 12.1.13. The land development code for the approximately 10.09 a property known as sunset placed located at 5701 through 575 South was 70 second street or sunset drive in the downtown Somi or DS district for mixed use project is existing a 1,513 residential units and approximately 350,000 square feet of non-residential floor area, including retail, hotel, office, and recreational uses, providing for conditions, enforcement of conditions, corrections, and preventations, severability, and effective date. And this application will be presented by Mr. Mark Alvarez. Thank you. Chair, before we go to presentations, we'd like to read into the record a quasi-judicial statement just laying out some of the basic rules for the hearing. And I'll do that now. Application number IVB on this evening's planning board meeting agenda is quasi-judicial in nature. The public hearing will include presentations by staff and the applicant and also an opportunity for the public comment. The planning board may ask any questions either before or after public comment is closed. Following public comment, the planning board may deliberate on the application. The cross judicial procedures require this planning board to consider the evidence presented to it and base its decision on applicable law and primarily on the evidence presented whether by the applicant, staff, or members of the public. The staff report and the resolution provide the applicable law and criteria for approval. In this case, criteria, Article 12 of the Land Development Code. The evidence considered must be substantial, competent evidence. This means testimony or other evidence based on personal observation or relevant expert testimonial money that a reasonable mind would accept as adequate to support a conclusion. It is not a popularity contest. It cannot be based solely on non-expert opinions, no matter how fervent those opinions might be. Everyone who seeks to speak on an item should be given an opportunity to speak during public comment portion of the hearing. If you intend to provide testimony as to any of the applications considered tonight, you will be sworn in before your testimony is taken. Please know if you speak, you may be subject to cross-examination. If you refuse either to be cross-examined or to be sworn, your testimony will be considered in that context and given its due weight. The general public will not be permitted to cross-examined witnesses, but the public may request that the planning board direct questions on their behalf to either staff or the applicant. At this time, anyone who wishes to be sworn in, I'm sorry, to speak, should be sworn in. I'd ask that you please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swore to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Thank you. Mrs. O'Neill, Administrator Marcus, could you confirm please compliance with advertising and notice requirements for this hearing? Yes, all requirements have been met. Excellent. Chair and board members, have any of you had any ex-partate communications with the applicant or any member of the public for or against any of the applications to be heard tonight? If so, then please state so for the record who the communication was with and the nature of the applications to be heard tonight. If so, then please state so for the record who the communication was with and the nature of the communication. Anyone? Okay, Chair. I turn the proceedings over to you. I begin the hearing with recommendations from our staff. Mr. Alvers. Good evening, Mark Alvers of the Corardina Group. I'm staff for City of South Miami. We have reviewed the site, the, is that too loud? We've reviewed the initial site plan with regard to the regulations that are part of Article 12, Section 20-12.3. This is an initial site plan review, which will be followed by subsequent site plan reviews for the development. We have reviewed it very thoroughly based on the drawings and the application that looked before us, and I'm going to go through each part of the code and very quickly summarize what the findings are. For the, for section, well, first of all, I should say, as far as the sufficiency, the application is sufficient. Sufficially means that all the parts are basically submitted to the city, everything there needs to be. I will review some items and say there were some information that was a time missing, but all the basic parts were there, so we found it to be sufficient. With regards to the analysis, section 20-12.4 is floor area ratio. And we using the tables that are in the front this time are the tables, have found the floor area ratio, which would be the non-residential floor area to be consistent with which required in the code. On residential density, we have a maximum density of 150 units per acre. And again based on the tables that were invited to us we have found it to be consistent with the code except 149.95 units per acre which is 150. For section 20-12.8 is permitted heights. The height requirements of this particular code are quite complicated and they're tied into setbacks and they're tied into the bonus heights. So there's a lot here. With regard to the seven buildings, they're floor, and we measure height by floor. All of the heights, as they appeared in this life plan, are consistent with the code. We had 33, depending on each section, we had 33 at the gateway section down to 6, actually 12 at the sunset section with the correct step downs. Having said that, there are a number of more detailed areas required in the height part of the code. One of the small details is all the occurrences on top of the roof. We needed to have actual heights attached to them. They did not, and we have notified the applicant and they are supplying additional information. Or lacking that as they need more details, they could actually simply submit that they will follow the code and not require a variance in the future. That would be also sufficient right now, it just says 2 to be determined TBD. One of the more difficult issues as we went through this was at the time the floor plates were not well established for each of the towers. One of the parts of this code, so when this code changed, we went from what's now sort of short and fat building that entirely occupies the block from the outside to the idea that we would have a more porous design that would be porous and horizontal way with a lot of streets. But the towers would be skinnier, tall and skinny. So we've created height, but said that we have to have a smaller floor plate on the towers. The initial plans that we had provided to us had the floor plates or the cover, which I should say, of each of the buildings on the bottom, but we did not have the floor plates at that time for determining if that was sufficient. Since that time we did notify the applicant they have supplied that information. So we do have that information completely and they will, their team can make a presentation to you that they have the floor plates as they should be. I will not do that at this time because we will review this again before it goes to the commission and make sure thoroughly that each floor plate matches. Even though I, and I will say but I can't see the data there, I just, since I have to give you testimony based on that, I can't do that right now. Also there was a issue with, we were trying to determine what the bonus floor area was and it kind of goes in, it interleasing with the floor plates issue. We were not able to do that. Again, we take on face value what was given to us but we could not recreate that determination. The same issue, we do have that information now, we have to go through it in detail and make sure that we can reproduce their numbers. So on the permitted heights and on the report on page 12, it looks like my page numbers 12 and 11, there were a lot of points of the additional information that was missing at the time and now is supplied to us. For open space was one of the critical issues of this project and the open space is more than adequate. The requirement of the code is 15% base requirement. There's a 17 and a half percent requirement for bonuses or bonus floors depending on which part of the site plan you're in. However, the there's 33 and a third percent of the site that is open space. That's more than adequate that's way beyond what's required both on the base requirement as well as for any bonuses. So on open space which is section 20-12.9. They're absolutely sufficient. The landscaping, which is 20-12.10, we went through, we looked at the plans, again, the charged detail that all the trees that are required, both on street trees and on site trees, the hedges, the shrubberies, the calipers, the heights at planting are all short to the consistent. So we have deemed that to be consistent with the requirements of the code, as well as the native species percentage and so forth. On dimensional standards, again, the dimensional standards somewhat interleaves with some of the height requirements. But generally speaking, the site plan is compliant. It meets the external setbacks, which are zero, on all the streets around it. In fact, it exceeds them. It has setbacks where they're non-required. They're the only thing that was not able to be determined. And again, this more or less interleaved with the floor plates. We could not determine that we have a very special requirement in the code for sunset drive. So for sunset drive there was a bonus requirement to go up to 12 stories in that part of the cyclan, the sunset zone. To get that bonus they would have to give up the four floors that would a butt sunset drive and go to two floors, but then have 50% of the floor plate above that another third or fourth floors would be only 50% of what's on the second floor. It's very complicated, but we did that in the code to assure that we don't just have a flat wall with another flat wall behind it. We wanted to allow the architect to have some very walls and do something interesting there. There's the floor plate for not provided at the time so we couldn't check that. Again, it seems to be, but I can't tell you for sure until we have actually thoroughly checked the numbers. From mobility management and parking, there we did write a note that the typical space does need to be shown in the plans. It's a very small detail among all the hundreds of spaces. Again, it's not going to be permitted anyway if the spaces are substandard. But it is missing. We also noted that the plans originally is provided, showed 10 floors. We've talked to the applicant that's actually nine. It does lower their parking count as far as we can see Even with the nine floors. They still have sufficient parking So we have noted that section 20-12.12 mobility management and parking would be sufficient and it's consistent with the with the requirements Section 20-12.15 for 15 is a master signage plan. It's in the code. It does have a number of requirements, and there is a sheet called a conceptual signage palette. We've noted that that's not, that doesn't give every bit of information that's required, which would include size and dimensional standards, the number of combination and orientation standards, the illumination of all the signage. It's a very large project and we recognize that this is something that will probably flesh out. I have to say it's not consistent at this time, but this is a detail that we feel is something that's probably premature at the initial site plan review stage. So that's our report. We have not issued an overall determination. I know tonight there will be some presentations to help fill in some of that information. And again, we will take everything that's been provided between the time that this report was published and now, and not, was there a review it again? I was going to say review it. We'll review it again in detail before it goes to commission for approval. Thank you for any questions? I'm writing questions for members. Not at this time. Okay, thank you. Two of you, pass. Thank you. for the record Richard Perez with offices at 5701 Sunset Drive City of South Miami. So real, real pleasure to be with you guys once again. What I passed out there was the detailed response that we provided to city staff with regards to the questions that they had in their report. You all have the benefit of our responses and to the degree that you have any questions with regard to that, we can come back to it and refer back to each one of those questions. But I think, you know, I gotta say, you know, we have, what seems like hundreds of consultants here that looked at these plans like 5,000 times, and I have to say there's a lot of credit for Mark who found all of the little details in the haystack and all the inconsistencies. So I think a real sort of credit to Mark and his team and the city of Turtees team to really sort of hold our feet to the fire and make sure that everything, all the eyes are dotted and tees are crossed and we were very happy to respond and I think we have appropriate and adequate answers to all of those pending questions and really wanted to think Mark for, again, keeping our feet to fire and making sure that we got this right. But we were with you all about a year ago, almost all of you. I know that there's a new face here. And when we met a year ago, it was really, the collective conversation was about setting a canvas, right? Stating a canvas to allow Heather Wicks team and we have Matt Cash here in Charlottes, Bovis here from Heather Wicks Studios and Matt will give you a presentation a little bit later. But it was really setting that canvas to allow them to peep. To peep the community that incorporated the elements that we collectively set. And what were those elements that we talked about a year ago? First, it was that the project should never turn its back to sunset drive and red road. It needed to move away from internalizing the pedestrian movement and externalizing the pedestrian movement and externalizing the traffic, right? You needed to serve as a catalyst and not an anchor, right? That was sort of kind of the first part of what we wanted in that canvas. The second was that the project needed to take the existing street grid, right? And bring that incorporated into the development program to allow pedestrians to come in to allow that traffic to flow. Again, to create more connectivity and engaging pedestrian experience. That was kind of the second element. The third was that the project needed to move away from the twice-failed concept of a regional mall and really needed to move towards more of a neighborhood, a community, right? And I think it's important for us to break that last one down. And why was that important? Why was that one of the reasons that we all sort of collectively came said, this is what we want? And first is that I think we all came to the conclusion that the greater residential density within the downtown area is what was needed and required to have a vibrant downtown, right? That the missing ingredient for the success was people, right? And that, and that, I think what observer put, it's not about dinner, it's about breakfast and lunch, right? For both our restaurants and our businesses in the downtown. And if we really want to have a vibrant downtown, we need people that live there, we need people that are there, not people that are driving in for other areas to come into the downtown, but people that really sort of live, work, and play there. We hear that a lot, but that's really wasn't necessary ingredient to it. And the second reason, and I think this one is one that I think we all share, is that a regional mall there is just inappropriate for the area. And why? What are the main reasons is traffic, right? A heavy commercial use versus a mixed use drives significantly more traffic. Let me repeat that, because it really sort of bears sort of everybody's understanding, because it's somewhat sort of counterintuitive. You say you're building homes and that needs more traffic. But yeah, when you're comparing that to sort of a green piece of property where there's nothing there, what we have here is a 600 nearly a 600,000 square foot regional mall that drives traffic for everywhere else into this community. In that, any traffic in junior year will tell you, will generate significantly more traffic than a project that's a mixed use, predominantly residential project with some retail uses and some important retail uses. To be honest, it may seem, again, counter-intuitive, but it's true that the reduced potential traffic impacts here of vote for a mixed-used neighborhood is the way you want to go as opposed to continuing to allow this to be a regional mall. Certainly, dead regional mall produces very little traffic, but that's not really a fair comparison. The comparison is between a regional mall and a mixed use development. But I sort of painted the picture for you guys. I'm sure you don't wanna hear from me, you'd rather hear from Heather Wicks team and their folks. And let me introduce again, again, Matt Cash, who's worked on some of the most important projects around the world, including leading the team for Little Island in New York, the Museum of Contemporary Art of African Art in Cape Town, the Eddon Residential Project in Singapore. We are grateful and honored to welcome Matt and the South Miami, and we're grateful to have him as part of our team, and I'll turn it over to him to sort of walk you through the project. Do you mind? Thanks, Rick, for the introduction. Someone has Matthew Cash on the partner at Head of Ex studio in London. I'll just share the deck. Yeah, give me one second. Excuse me, Madam Clerk. Can you make Matt Cash available so he can share his screen? Nothing yet You're now a co-host now, so you should be able to. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Okay, so Rick's talking a little bit about the journey that we've been on together as a team over the last kind of 12 months. And at the beginning we kind of step back and asked ourselves, you know, what we want for sunset place. And as a vision for us as a team, it was really about making it the new heart of South Miami. It also needs to be an incredible land make on Highway 1. It's one of the main gateways into South Miami and we wanted to reflect that in some way. And to Rick's point, we wanted to contain real streets, not be a shopping mall. So how do we bring real streets in with life and energy into the site of Sunset Place? We also knew it had to be a walkable neighbourhood with really good vehicle connectivity and have homes with great views, amenity and identity. So as part of our design process, we looked at what's there now and what's wrong with it, how would we respond to some of those issues? And so at the moment sunset places are kind of fortress, it's kind of defensible structure in the middle of South Miami and it's not really communicating with the surrounding streets around it So it's like how do we challenge that? How can we think about that in a different way? It's a joint highway one which is kind of loud and kind of unfriendly And there's really no engagement with Red Road the kind of the facade of the buildings We don't draw you into them you have to go pass them to go into the middle of the scheme. So how do we really engage with Red Bro in some way? And it really ignores the surrounding streets. If you drive up the surrounding streets, you just hit the side of this big fortress-like wall. How do you actually allow the streets to continue and really break down the site? And these kind of fake internal streets, they kind of feel kind of odd and unintuitive, but not part of the city as if they've just been kind of a UFO who's been dropped in the middle of South Man, not really connected with anything else. And the retail and the second level are not really working, it's kind of an unused kind of area in the middle of South Man, there's not many people that go there anymore. And it doesn't really feel like a part of the city, it feels kind of generic or not of anywhere. So one of our main drivers, first of all, was really bringing backs and kind of real streets into the heart of South Miami. And real streets with variety. So having kind of, it's quite a large site. So how do we bring real streets with, actually, have a character of their own and create some variety? And we looked at creating variety through kind of material use, thinking about kind of the materials that we use, about the scale of streets, no, all the way from the Paseos to kind of larger streets, had a great variety into those scales. And the mix of those things create different atmospheres of streets. They're not just one generic size that goes through the whole site, but actually creating variety in there. I know it's to give a sense of discovery. We want people to be coming back again and again to always discover new things. We thought about that as how we've broken down the site. So first of all we've started the potential arrival points from the site. First of all, these from pedestrians, a bit also through the vehicular access through the existing car parking garage. And we wanted to draw people from the south to the north, from sunset drive all over the north and into the site, but then attractor. How do we get people to draw right into the heart of the site? And we studied the surrounding streets from the Paseos, all the way to the kind of larger streets like Highway One. And we took those streets and just extended them into our site so we could actually open up the site to the surrounding context. We created a main route, a main street that ran through from sunset dry, through a series of public plasas into a new anchor on the northern end of the site. And then we took the other streets and drove them through. You could see through this plan lots of variety of geometries and scales from the public classes to smaller perseus to create that variety I was talking about that sense of discovery when you enter into the site. And that creates kind of squares and different streets and different experiences. To give us a new kind of ground playing, much more permeable, much more open to the surrounding streets, with a sense of discovery. I would in that each of those kind of smaller city blocks we've broken down again into kind of a system of almost like smaller buildings clustering together. To give you a little bit of different, a little bit of discovery while walking around the streets around South Miami and seeing the kind of the context. How do we create that in a kind of new project? Quite often new projects are kind of very big flat podiums, they're not very personable. We're trying to bring the scale down with this building to something much more tangible to the kind of human scale. So conceptually if you imagine taking a section through the site, we've got almost a kind of village-like cluster of smaller-scale buildings and units. And then above that residential density that Rick was talking about, to really help feed down the density of people that's necessary to kind of keep this a lively part of the city. And those kind of zones that we talked about before, so from sunset zone on the south all the way through to the gateway zone, the building tears up from south to the north, all the way up between it within our permitted development route. And in each of those towers, their view is almost like an exoskeleton, a simple tower with almost this kind of village-like series of blocks tucked underneath. And those blocks have various different scales to allow different types of shops and restaurants to inhabit them from kind of kiosks to smaller retail units to smaller restaurants. When we start thinking about how that sits on the site, looking kind of west up sunset drive, you can see the residential towers stepping back from the edges of the street and the retail classes just tucking out beneath them. And those retail classes create different experiences at street level, stepping forward and stepping back allowing potential to have on-street dining and create some variety of materials and scales which kind of draws your eye and creates interest on the street. And as you draw into the site, there's also different types of street situations where some of the streets are completely covered and create different kind of atmospheres and those streets are also animated with interesting kind of public art and street furniture to allow you to dwell as well as to get coffees and go for dinner to create a variety of different experiences. And also these kind of smaller streets, little paseos that cut through the site as well. And that means you can have smaller units which will allow start-ups to happen, you can have a small business that might begin here and then start moving to other areas of the site. So trying to create a sense of kind of mueness and always kind of constantly reinventing itself by the scale of the streets. You have a kind of a main drive that runs through so you can have on-street dining and cars can permeate through into the site. One of the most important things is running a lot of green space and dwell space within that within the site as well. Kind of talked a little bit before about the amount of open space that we're bringing to the site and allowing interesting vegetation to also begin to inhabit through the scheme. That culminates into a new public plaza on the far north of the site. I spoke for about an anchor drawing people through from sunset drive to the north. This is really the kind of anchor within that site which allows a new public plaza that can provide opportunities for the potential of a community theatre or other community uses as well as restaurants and shops right in the middle of a new kind of reimagined sunset place. Thank you very much. Great. Thank you very much, Matt. And obviously we're here to answer your questions. Just one point of clarification, I know that Mark spoke a little bit about the parking garage and the 10 versus 9 stories. That was just a discrepancy in the plants. The parking garage is 9 stories. The number of parking spaces that we were collecting the plans, which as an overage of several hundred parking spaces is accurate. It was just a discrepancy in the plans that showed it as a 10th floor. It should have been in a 90th floor shown there and it showed like parking graded out. But we have a significant number of parking spaces above the required amount. But with that we're ready to answer any of your questions and really appreciate your time and effort here. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm going to open up to public comment. Is anyone from the public that would like to speak on this item? Anyone in the audience? Is there anyone online that wants to speak on the item? Raise your hand. Step forward. You please approach the dius and make sure you sign in My name is Fermi Ray Excuse me sir. Were you sworn in earlier? No, okay? I wasn't going to talk about That's all part of my heart. That's fine. All right. If you would raise your right hand please. Yes. You swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth Thank you. Your name and address for the record, please. Yeah, please sign it on the sign in sheet. There. I just have a few notes. I'll wait one second. You're having some good memories about sunset place. I grew up on this beautiful city. My first day was on sunset place. I'm sorry, could you state your name and your address? Great, thank you. I grew up in this beautiful city. My first day was on sunset place. My first case was in Sonsar Place, right in front of the movie theater. I don't know if you know about that. There are so many beautiful memories, like dinner with my low ones. My dad bought me my first wash on Mayors. And it does touch my heart to see it go down. I'm pretty happy about it. It's been so many years. So I'm actually speaking with a beautiful idea what they're bringing into the city. As a local one, I think it's awesome. It's been like a ghost city for the last past few years and it's actually hurting every time that I go around. I actually come by sometimes just to remember my childhood and everything. Just want to say thank you to everyone that is bringing this to this beautiful city and hopefully you guys can see how big and how beautiful it's gonna come to the city and give it a good chance. And I would love to, as you can see, I do all my own company and everything and I would love if you guys can bring like local company To to the project is a big one and if it's any opportunity I would be more than grateful To be part of it, you know Thank you, I really appreciate it. Thank you Any other public comments? Yes, sir. I don't think you raised your hand earlier. Sir, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Your name and address for the record, please. My name is Mike Riveron, and I live in 1210 South out of Hamburg, circle. And I work right on sunset. I a bit in this area for 30 years. I saw the first project, the second project, and now I'm looking at the third. One of the questions that I have for the staff or to whether I can answer the question is that, first, along with this project, I'm going to take full construction. I see the enormous amount of issues in regards to traffic, both in the D7 and sunset. You can't get out of sunset, you can't get out of the D7. The second thing as a question has to do with the fact that when we are in this area, we are basically trying to live in harmony. And in harmony means that we'll take care of each other. And this is a city that I actually demonstrated even though I live in the Gables. I live only 10 blocks away from sunset. I mean, five blocks away from sunset. The next thing that I want to know is, during that period of time, in looking at that you have 57th Avenue, and you have sunset, and then you have a corner where the new French Baker is. How are you going to actually do this construction without interfering with the traffic that actually you're going to have access if the truck's full construction is coming from 57. How are you going to do that? You're definitely going to have issues and sunset and then basically where are you going to start the project? I think where you're going to start the project. I think where you're going to start the project and how you're going to do the project is as important as the density that is going to be created. Because I want more another, I believe, that SFHAPIT in Jeralda and Gorghayles and other places, some of the actual tenants are currently here, suffering for whatever reason, are going to have issues in regards to sustaining their own business. If the traffic is going to be severe and it's not going to be actually something that can be controlled. So they're two questions along and how are they going to have access to the project without interfering with the local traffic? Those are the two questions. Thank you, sir. Excuse me, sir. Please make sure to sign in. Thank you very much. Any other public comment online or in the audience? Okay, when it closed public comment, there's one person raising their hand. There it is. We have Zohib and June. You can turn on your video, sir. And your microphone is on mute. Excuse me, Madam. Can you allow Zoe and you to speak? Hi, sorry about that. This is my first time in one of these meetings. My name is Zoha Bungam. Yes. I'm sorry to interrupt you if you would please raise your right hand. You swear to tell truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do. Thank you. Your name and address for the record please. Sure. My name is Zoha Bungam. As you see on screen. I live on 27, 45, Southwest 26th Street in Silverbluff, but like the first speaker today, I've had a long history with Sunset. It's a place that I visited for a long time because I grew up in Miami. It's a place that I visited when I was going to the University of Miami. And it's a place that a lot of my friends have, it wouldn't go to until very recently. I'm sad to see what happened to it, but I'm happy to hear these plans for it to be revitalized. I had a specific question about one of the elements of the summary we heard at the beginning of today's meeting. There was something about a 150 unit per acre maximum that existed and apparently the current plan is achieving 149.5. I would say, you know, I'm very fortunate to be able to live in the city in a half for a long time. A lot of the people I know who've moved here are really struggling with housing costs. So I think I generally consider myself pro-housing. So I'm very happy to hear that this housing is coming to sunset. I'm curious what that limit is where it came from. And I'm curious to hear how this plan will help support housing. In this part of the city and maybe elsewhere as well. Thank you. All right, thank you. Okay. Okay. Let's try this one more time. Any other speakers? And we'll see any hands on the screen. Or any more hands in the audience. Okay, with that said, close public hearing. Open it up to board members. Board members, questions, comments? Well, Chair, I think Rick is the best to answer any of those questions. Okay. We're going to do that now. We have three questions. Construction duration, traffic, and types of housing being provided. Right. So, construction duration, it's a very hard question to answer because I'll start with our current assumptions. Our current assumption is that we're going to start with what we call R1 and R2, which are the two buildings closest to sunset drive. Those would be kindominium buildings. The idea is to set the tone for sunset place and what's going to happen and do it through a condominium building with the ground floor retail. It's very similar to what we did in Midtown on the Midtown Boulevard site where we slowly built across a number of years curating the retail, ensuring that we built a place that people really wanted to go to for not only for the benefit of the city and the benefit of the residents but frankly for our own benefit because frankly it is our goal is for the last partial and the last building to be the most valuable for us and for the community because that means not because of a duration of time but because we built a community that people want to live in, right? And so we want to set that tone and that tone appropriately on our one and our two in those two that front sunset place. And so that's where we think that we will start. How long it takes us to get to the end. It really depends on the market and market forces and how we get there and that might take some time. But that is, those are fairly manageable builds. We're talking about probably an 18 month build for them. But I think one of the great things about this site, unlike some other sites in the city and elsewhere in our community is that it's very big. And so we can internalize a lot of that. It's very big and we have a lot of open space in the plan. So we can internalize a lot of that construction activity onto the site where other constrained sites couldn't do it. Is it going to inconvenience some people? All development does. The goal with working with the city and others is to develop an MOT plan which is, you know, to make sure that we minimize that impact and that's certainly something that we, of course, will do and of course, want to do. So that answers, I think, your the first question. Yeah. What was the traffic? The traffic impact and the last one was time to housing. Right. And I go back to some of the statements I we discussed a little bit earlier, which is a dead ball produces no traffic. A semi dead ball produces a little bit of traffic. It won't always be. And really, the comparison here is, do you want this to be a regional mall? Do you want this to be another bakery center? Do you want it to be a sunset place? Or do you want to do something different? Do you want to create a neighborhood or a community that brings residences back into the downtown. And when you compare the traffic of a 500 and something thousand square foot regional mall versus what we're proposing, there is a significant reduction in the amount of traffic that those two types of uses generate. And I think that's part of the vision, right, of your city leadership, of us as well, which is you're building something that's going to internalize a lot of that traffic, a lot of the people don't need to get out. And you're also creating a situation where you don't need outside people coming in or you're not attracting outside people coming in. It's really about creating a community. And so, look, we live in a town and we live, and this is along US1 where there's a significant amount of development that's coming through and coming in. We think that this is the right development for this. We think it actually reduces the amount of potential traffic that could be generated on this site. And there's going to be traffic. The question is, is it the right type of traffic? And is this a less intense use than the potential use as a regional model? And I think the answer to all that is yes. So yeah. I think part of that question was also how people are how you envision the construction, gaining ingress to the property. So you mentioned building from sunset. One of that question was also how people are, how you envision the construction gaining ingress to the property. So you mentioned building from sunset. So does that also mean you're going to build from red road? Next you have a phasing idea there that, right. Our idea is R1 and then move across, across the site all the way to US1. The hotel site will probably be next in that process. It would be great if we do R1, R2 and the hotel. I think that there's a real need for, for, and you see the success of the thesis. I mean, it's done incredibly well. I think, and I think the city of South Miami can certainly support a high end brand for that hotel and that's really what we're looking at. And so, working that way makes logical sense in working to the corner. Again, that's the higher density area. So it makes sense for us to kind of build the community first and then get to the higher density area so it makes sense for us to kind of build the community first and then get to the higher density areas afterwards. We think that's going to be the best valley generator for the city stuff I made for ourselves. I would assume that you envision leasing this new retail space as it becomes available. So you're going to be trying to take care of that retail traffic on sunset from the get-go as soon as possible. Right. And that's also what's helping of that retail traffic on sunset from the get-go as soon as possible. Right. And that's also what's helping motivate us to go on sunset drive. We want to get in and out of sunset drive, create that. Think about it. That's where we want to create a place where people want to come, right? That's only going to of logical sense for us, because you're not really creating anything. You're not creating a sense of community. You're not tying in. You're not showing what's possible. And I think that that's really what we want to do on R1 and R2. It's show that what we're creating here is something really special. And that's where we want to start. And then move across. If I may ask which building is the hotel? It's the one that's in the middle along Red Red. So the middle building on Red Red. Because to me, I ask the question because when it comes to traffic, if there's anything that helps not produce traffic is a hotel. Because that's where you don't really need that much parking. The cars that come in are very minimal and they're pretty much all transient. So that's why I asked the question. Thank you. That's right. And we've made a lot of attention to how you get folks into that hotel. Really the idea here is great, a very active valet system inside that we can internalize a lot of those valley trips inside because we have the road that goes back into the parking garage and around so We have a lot of consultants And the interesting thing is since there weren't through streets here before you're not having to divert traffic Right, it was basically one big parcel. And the only traffic that was allowed was the few people that were going in and out of the mall. So you're not having to detour any traffic in order to construct the project. So that in a way is a very positive thing. So in the last the types of housing, which I know it's a mix of condos and so forth. So if you could just talk about that. Yeah, I mean, the idea right now is condominiums along. And the idea is really to do something that is really focused on families in those condos. And fairly large units there is the notion, you know, 2,02500 square feet, like big units with good sized balconies. We think that that's kind of a missing piece here, people wanna be here, it's a great school district. You can't afford pinecress, you can't afford high gardens, but you can get into this area at a different price point than what you're seeing there. And then moving in as we get through to multi-family and more rental product as we move through. But you're also gonna have some more force housing as part of this, or? You know, we haven't come to a decision with regards to that. I mean, as things change over time, and we'll see there, but we haven't come to a decision exactly. Because that was part of the bonuses so I guess you weren't looking at those as bonuses. We're not requesting bonuses through the workforce housing program. Right. Okay. You made mention of the fact that your intent was to develop the site in phases starting with R1 and R2 on sensitive drive. What would be the plan for some of the parcels that are closer to US one in that intermediary period where you've developed the first set of buildings, but not yet reached those? I think that's a great, great question. And it's one of the things that, you know, in our discussions with staff and with the city attorney, having, and I know it's a discussion that the city attorney, Resseo and I know it's a discussion that the city attorney rescue and I have pending an intramacadabation plan for for those areas and and it's in the works is what I could say and I think it's part of the discussions that that we're going to have ongoing with the rights to the development agreement that we're that we're moving forward with are you not able to share any details at this point? I don't know what the request is. OK. But we're happy to entertain it. And we're not only entertain it, I know it's something that City Attorney Rescue is going to demand. So we understand that, and we'll work through that. And certainly get back to you all with regards to ultimately what staff pushes us in that direction. We will work through that and certainly get back to you all with regards to Ultimately what what staff pushes us in that direction as a follow-up to that You also talked about the idea of Your last Development being the best because you're creating this This place where people want to be and spend their time and spend their money and live sure Should that place where people want to be and spend their time and spend their money and live. Should that, should that first development change the plan for better or worse? Is there a plan B? Is there a series of plan Bs for the other parcel? The only plan is success. Okay. You know, we, you don't have to guess with us. I mean, in 2011- Well, to be fair, I did say for better arm work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In its industry, Mithya Development, and its affiliate companies bought Mithya on an bankruptcy in 2011, slowly curated its development. We don't have a mortgage on this piece of property. We're not going anywhere. We're, Mr. Vidilla lives, you know, a mile from this site. We're going to take this the way that we did Midtown, right, which is we're going to build it. We're going to build it right. We're going to build it as fast as it takes to make it a success. You know, there's no plan B. This is about us building something here that we would be happy to say that the third time was in fact the term. Paul Sand. And reference to the, you touched on it, but I want to expand the square footage currently existing on the retail and what's being delivered under the current plan. Sure. I think I have the numbers right in front of me, so I might be slightly off. I think the current development is something around 540,000 square feet of retail is permitted on the site. I think our plans, all non-residential commercial, which includes office, the entirety of the hotel and the retail is around 400,000 square feet. But that means that that retail component is something in the range of about 130,000 square feet. So really what you're comparing is 500 plus 1000 square feet of retail is about 130,000 square feet. And one really crystal example of that, the current AMC has 4,000 seats. The plan shows for about an 1100 to 1200 seat movie theater. So that in there's a reduction in that retail it is equivalent to that you know certainly across the board right. I think it's where I live in the breakaway part the traffic pattern for our office and retail are vastly different. Correct. Correct. Thank you. And that's one of the components. It's obviously in flux as we go through, right? There may be a need for additional office and we're building a little bit of flexibility for that in the development agreement so we can sort of balance things out. Because right now we don't have a lot of office in the project. If the unit size you're talking about is roughly 2000, you know, let's just use conservative 2000 square feet per unit, 1500 units, that 3 million square feet of residential. Well, to be honest, the units near the end will probably be significantly smaller than that. What we're saying is we're setting the tone with all of the... Yeah, even if, let's say even the average of thousands. So you've got a million five in residential square footage versus a retail footprint of less than 300,000. So as you talked about earlier, the complexion of the project really has moved from that regional mall to a great residential development, neighborhoods like Lincoln Park or whatever in Chicago. That kind of thing. Right. And you know, and one of the things that Mr. Vides says quite often is that what the best amenity today for folks is a coffee shop, not a pool, but a coffee shop in a restaurant and a place where they can go downstairs and hang out and grab a drink. That's what people want today, and that's the type of development that we wanna create here. I'd like a pool too, but that's all right. That's a perfect person, no problem. What about the longer term idea, will you try to tie in somehow to Metro Rail to be able to get some of these people that we're hoping, one of the things that will make that super demand is if people can get to jobs. And so unless up in change those jobs aren't going to be in South Miami to afford those units, they're going to be on brick old, they're going to be in other places. So how do you see that unfolding? Great question. Great question. In one of our myriad of consultants, Victor Dover is right there. And we brought Victor Dover onto the team for that very reason. It really is about creating connectivity on Red Road is really one of our focuses, right? Because Red Road not only ties back into NetRail, but also ties into the University of Miami, right? And figuring that out, right, is I think part of what will create the long term success for this project. And so we don't have an answer for you now. And mind you, this is going to be a journey with us on making all of these things work. But we brought Victor onto the team to help us identify because that's going to take federal and state resources to assist city and staff and frankly, it's going to take. Like if you look at Red Road, it's Coral Gables, it's F., it's Miami-Dade County, it's going to take a village here to really do something and making sure that there's connectivity not only to Metro Rail but across Red Road and into the University of Miami, that's what's going to create, like we've all said, if the Red Road retail succeeds here, we have a great project. And that's the way that we're looking at it. So Victor is going to help us. And he just told me a little while ago that he's identified three great sources of potential great money to do stuff. So we're working on it. We're 1,000% cognizant of it. And we agree. It's just a matter of trying to figure it out with all of the different resources and all of the different agencies that are involved in that. Thanks. As you develop, I'm imagining something, you know, an outstanding and large and a great improvement to the area, What's your perception of bleeding that into the rest of the existing city so that it actually does blend? You mentioned blends, but I'd like to understand you're gonna work with lighting systems and walkways to create some sort of a transition. Yeah, and you all have taken the first step in the cities, taking the first step on sort of the sunset driving sunset driving initiative, and bringing in to Serbia, who's fantastic at what they do. We're vested in making it work. The specifics will work out over time. I think Heather Rook's team is fantastic in doing these things. And one of the things that we said from the very beginning, somebody said, what is it going to be called? We're really hopeless. It's called nothing, right? It's not something, please. It's just part of the city of South Miami. That's part of our goal, right? And bringing the streets through there is going to go a long way to achieving that, right? Because right now, you don't have that street grid connectivity, right? Because right now, you don't have that street grid connectivity, right? And once you have that street grid connectivity, I think it's going to go a long way in creating that seamless, that seamless transition between one and the other. And frankly, a seamless transition with Coral Gables on the other side, which has, you know, that this project turns its back to Coralables is mind numbing to me, right? Like what, why you would do what you did on Red Rose is mind numbing to me? And we're trying to absolutely reverse that, right? And creating this as sort of a little bit of a regional downtown, right? Where you have that connectivity across and, you know, selfishly for us, I mean, like having a whole food there is great. If you're having residential, we want it to make it easy for those people to come across and make all of this seamless. So we share and that's our focus. That's absolutely our focus. In the comments? I'm interested in, this is Michelle, I'm interested in shopping, drawing the people there. Is there only the moderate? Is there be like for the income load, people that can come in with not so high income, medium income, where the whole South Miami will feel comfortable coming not just on the high end, but people can come in what type of shops would you be having to draw them in as well. Thank you. I think that's an incredible question. And I think it's an incredibly insightful question, right? Because when you're creating a community, and this is no disrespect to the design district, I don't think we want the design district to have, right? And one of the things that we've done is if you look at the footprint of our retail, it's actually very, very small. You're talking about, I mean, the numbers, I know Alex knows them. So the average is, I do you know it off the top of his head. It's the average, the average shop is 1,800 square feet. The goal here is to do, again, what we did in Midtown. If you go to Midtown, you see very little by way of credit tenants. And you know, Ozam, who's our CFL, could tell you there are very few credit tenants there. Right? We have difficulty with those credits paying the rent, but the create an atmosphere that's unbelievable in that area because it's a lot of local folks, it's small stores, it is the type of tenants that creates an interesting place. It's not just a bunch of like, you know, stores that you see everywhere, right? And that's exactly what we wanna replicate here. It is local stores and we're sizing the retail unit so that we can have that and not because what creates if you have a 5,000 square foot spot, it's very hard for a local person to get in there. But if you have an 800 square foot spot, we'll have some of those. It's a lot easier and that's it's done intentionally so that we can have local businesses could actually succeed there in a small footprint. And so it is our goal to curate this with with local businesses, a butcher shop, all that stuff. We want to really create a neighborhood here. And it's in the plants because the plant show very small retail bays. Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead, Michelle. That I'm good with that because that's what I was interested in is making sure that those small businesses and shops would be also able to come in and be able to drive as well. Yes. Well, first of all, I want to commend the whole team for turning all the additional information in the timely manner. So we could have a good meeting today. Because when I saw the first recommendation, it was like, oh my god. So we shared a tough weekend and Dean were half here. And we worked around the clock to address all of those concerns. So that's greatly appreciated. Because it made this a lot easier. I spoke to the attorneys and it was like, oh, this is going to be an interesting meeting. But, you know, I've been a resident of the county since 1973. It's South Miami residents since 1989. So I've seen all the growth and transitions here. And sometimes, at least we're learning from our mistakes, right? You know, the architects and planners and developers, you know, you go to Mayfair. Mayfair made the same mistake before we did it here. It turned its back on, cloping it growth, put up walls, you got two entrances, didn't work. But we don't learn. We did. It'll work in South Miami. That's two of the South Miami. They're working in South Miami. I commend the architects for the thoughtfulness of bringing the streets back, because that's what creates character. They try to create character through artificial streets. Artificial streets don't work. These are real streets where cars are going to go through, people are going to walk through, and they're going to be able to experience this. It's going to be a walkable community that's an extension of the residents of the area today. Out of the fact that it's not going to be named, because you're right, It's not one project. It's a series of projects that are being built kind of simultaneously at the same time. So very supportive. Thank you for the great presentation and analysis of the proposal from our side. So I have nothing else to add, other than commanding the development team for their vision and the architects for their vision also. Do we have a motion? We looking for a motion with the conditions as outlined. I mean what's in the. Yes. Okay. So as presented with the subject to. Correct. And any other conditions you guys may have. It's your prerogative. It seems pretty thorough. So I would motion it. Right. Do you recommend approval? Recommend approval with the conditions as outlined. Correct. Second. It's made in second. I take a real call. Danny. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Thank you. Thanks guys. That's going to take longer than this. Okay. All right. All right. It's just a way to couple of minutes to let the room clear out so it can be peaceful. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be would be a good idea. Thank you. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I don't know what you got left. I don't know what you got left. I don't know what you got left. I don't know what you got left. I don't know what you got left. I don't know what you got left. the chair were just we saw a quorum yes so let's go ahead and have a quorum yes go ahead and present the next item next item is PB that's two four that zero to zero I'm sorry I'm backwards PB that's two for that zero one nine I apologize excuse me excuse me excuse me excuse me Barney. Hello. Thank you. Rick Rick. Go ahead. Yes, items PBS 2 4-10-019 the applicant that the city of South Miami in order to the mayor and the city commission of the city of South Miami. Florida mending Article 2 definitions, Article 3 zoning regulations, Article 4, other regulations to the land development code to establish regulations related to residential single family driveways provided for correction, severability, conflict, segmentation, and effective date. This item will be handed by Mr. City Attorney. Thank you, Marcus. Appreciate that. Board members, you'll recall from our last meeting that we discussed potential legislation to provide driveway regulations for single-family homes. We took your advice. We took your recommendations and modified this pretty thoroughly. Those changes you can see in the materials before you include a strike through version of the ordinance that you all reviewed. And key changes per your recommendations were to strike paragraphs E and G. Those are the paragraphs that dealt with details about good condition, dirt, stains, cracks, deterioration. We had a lot of discussion about that and ultimately we decided that would be a matter for separate parts of the code, code enforcement and those sorts of things. Here we're just going to focus on the design regulations. With respect to the design regulations, you can see that we clarified on their subparagraph A, the limitations on curb cuts. And we're calling that out specifically on paragraph B. We're specifying the curb cut width, minimum of nine, and then no greater than 22 feet in width. Furthermore, if there's a change in materials, resurfacing, et cetera, the curve may remain. I know that was one of the concerns that we had with respect to grandfathering and the like. We have a provision also, some paragraph C, specifying, setback from the property lines, the driver needs to be set back at least five feet. Naturally that doesn't apply to where the approach connects to the curb cut. Obviously that comes right up to the property line. We have a limitation also. We had a lot of discussion about maximums and the difference between a driveway and a parking area and the difference between a driveway and a parking area and the like. And so we've sort of resolved that concern by stating that it cannot exceed 35% of the area of the yard, whether it's a front yard or the side yard, where the driveway is located. And yard, of course, is defined as the area from the front line of the property of the building to the property line for the front yard and then for the side yard from the front line to the rear line on the side of the property. Let's see. The language regarding materials that may be used remain, we haven't made a change to that. We did clarify that the six inch curb is a horizontal curb, as recommended by the board. And we clarified on F and G the specific tree regulations that are applied in the codes. We have tree protection and maintenance requirements. We've incorporated those there and also likewise with impervious law coverage standards. If you have any questions, happy to address them. Anyone from the audience want to comment on this? Anyone online? Would like to comment on this item? Please raise your hand. I see no one online. I see no one in chambers. We'll put it up for board comments and questions. I just hate it. It sounds like that you made the adjustments we talked about the last meeting one of the principal ones being reducing that or limiting that subjectivity piece about the condition of the driveway if you will fall somewhere else in the code and then you could you go over that the part that keeps it from being a parking lot across the front again it's effectively your your your maximum lot coverage area. It's 35% of your front yard. We believe that that will be sufficient to make sure that it doesn't become a parking lot. And also sufficient so that people who want to have a driveway with a circular front that that's not eliminated, it would still be possible to do that. Do we look at that at all? What we specified is that you can have on a lot that's 60 feet or less one curb cut. So if your design requires, since you're making that curve, very likely you're not going to get two curb cuts if you're less than 60 feet We feel though at a 60 foot lot generally doesn't have that round It's 100 foot lot that this should allow people the flexibility to have correct Would you be allowed to curb cuts in that case? Thank you. Good evening, board members. Corner lots are unique. They are typically designed where you have a curb cut, possibly on each leg, as I call them, on each side, the street, the avenue and so forth. So sometimes it's not necessarily as far as the design, it's not a curb, I mean, it's not a curb, but one X, one driveway, X as the driveway in front of the garage for the wife, the home owners, you know, your children and so forth. But the other driveway on the other leg could simply be for the guests because that's where the walkway in the front door is. So, in, there are instances in corner lots where this, this is encouraged that way you you your design reflects that it's a corner lot not an interior lot again to avoid that design look of a parking lot so would you count the width of both legs together? You count they may not be the same but you count them each separately. You count. Yeah. I think you bring up a very valid point. And my personal recommendation would be to just tweak the language. That's why this board exists, right? So I would tweak the language to specify that it applies on a per-frontage basis, right? And so that's 60 foot. We wouldn't necessarily add up the two. We would just say each frontage gets one curb cut so Mr. City Attorney Recio has just suggested that language For your consideration of course we can do something different but he would take paragraph a and Strike where it says four lots in as in four lots 60 feet or less and specify per front bridge. The complete language would read, shall be limited to one curb cut per frontage where such frontage is 60 feet or less in width and two curb cuts per frontage where each frontage is greater than 60 feet. Yeah, that makes sense to me. I'm just thinking about the other extreme, which is somebody tried to bring in two curb cuts from both sides of the corn or what's that kind of look like. You know what I'm saying? Where two curb cuts. Yeah, so if you had, so I'm saying? We're two curb cuts. Yeah, so if you had, so I'm on a corner. And my line's 125 by 105. So I could theoretically put two curb cuts on both sides. I'm not sure what that's going to look like. And I'm not sure my neighbors would be happy I did it. So do we really want to do that? The 35% also kicks in. I mean, you could. Yeah. We could, we could just specify, expressly call out corner lots. We could just add another sentence and say, for corner lots, you know, you're providing one per frontage. One per frontage. Yeah, that's that. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll just do it that way. And the other thing, we remember, we have a very strict ordinance on impervious surfaces. So you very few people use that for driveways. They use it for pool decks, they use it for their homes, they don't use it for their driveways. So we'll, this sort of tourney is preparing just a one quick liner and we can, you know, we can proceed with conversation on other points and we'll come back to that. Other comments? Board members. You mentioned the existing conditions and not having to evolve that but if somebody and we think talk about this before but I don't see what was addressed, if somebody wants to improve an existing driveway and just replace what's there are we going to make them have a reduction or they can cover whatever's already covered? No, I can't say this. I'm saying that they have cracked up asphalt and now they want to do something that will be appealing and an improvement. Are we going to force them to have a reduction in surface coverage that they currently already have because they were not the city before? In other words, it's a non-conforming existing. The way this is written, yes. So let me know if this is incorrect, but what you're saying is, for example, if they have 40% coverage, their driveways are currently 40% and it's not conforming existing. Yeah, right. And now they want to go back to 35. This the way this is written would require 35% if you would like and they think that's where you're going. If you would like them to be grandfathered, we can or the boy I should say wants to be grandfathered, we could add that line. I just would I would prefer them to be grandfathered, we can, or at the board, I should say, wants it to be grandfathered, we could add that line. I just would prefer not to hinder someone wanting to do an improvement because they prefer to keep the existing coverage. In other words, if you're going to make it nicer, I wouldn't want to discourage them. It was on the trail, too. You're getting a lot of sub-jectivity advice. So I mean, so somebody who's got, you're thinking of the extreme, but I'm thinking what about the close call? So somebody wants to put in papers where one, where they have a asphalt drive, or concrete drive, it looks good. And so it needs to be sort of non-subjective piece of that, I think. I hear that. Let me clarify one point that we do have that sort of grandfathering language for the width of your curb cut. But we did not include any sort of language for a materials change. And whether you now, if you do a materials change, whether you have to comply with other things like 35%. Well, and I would- That's the one thing that we're not grandfathering. Yeah, and I can appreciate Jay's point, but I would say an improvement. Any improvement is an improvement to what's there because if it's old asphalt, new asphalt is better than the old asphalt. So I wouldn't want to discourage somebody from doing something to improve it because they would say, oh, if I touch it, I something to improve it because they would say, oh, if I touch it, I have to reduce it. I better not do anything and just leave it broken and ugly. The only thing I would add to it is we're all assuming that what's there was originally approved or has been approved previously, right? It's conforming today. So it may not be conforming, but at some point the city granted a variance to let them do it. So if the driveway is legal today, I'm all for not, I'm a grandfathering them in. But if it's something that they did, you know, 10 years ago, no one's picked up on. And they're gonna go replace an ice or that I don't, you know, find their neighbor, I'm wishing them go away the first time they redo their driveway. Yeah. Bottom thing. their driveway. Yeah, I'm saying. I mean, I think if you you have the non-conforming section of work-out. Yep. And we have several items that fall into that non-conforming section and the way it reads now is pretty egregious. So I would say that if you have a non-conforming situation, I think it'd be hard to tell if it was 10 years or 30 or 40. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Right. But well, but it's done conforming. And it's been there for some, you know, quite some time. I would not want to discourage them because here's the thing. If they don't touch it and they leave it like it is, we're never going to do anything about it. It's just going to be an ice or. I got you. I got you. for me uses and that's what Mr. Miller is calling out. Right, whether it was legal. We could, this is about that. So we could include, if it's the will of the body, language in here that specifies that material, like a repair restoration work, driveways, legal non-conforming driveways with respect to lot coverage Maybe replaced materials may be replaced or repair without losing that non-conforming legal non-conforming status You mean ceramic government a development services director I think that the interpretation would be that if they change it if they don't change the shape then We would have made them comply with the current standards. So if you're going to change from any materials to another one, you wouldn't have to comply. Does that satisfy you? I think that would be fair. I wouldn't discourage somebody from improving it. Yeah. And that's exactly how we read the same shape and size. But if you want to like change it, then that's it. Yeah, you need to comply. But as long as you're keeping the same shape and size, and you're going from one material to another, or whatever it is, and you would be okay. So if you- Go ahead. The curb cuts read 9 feet minimum 22 feet wide and may remain as is when the existing driveway under goes a material change. We can add that also to a letter D that stays about the 35% of the area of the front yard and the side where the driveway is located and may remain as is when existing driveway under goes a material change which is that that same thing to that just doesn't be will put will add it on to D. If you're going to speak you have to come to the microphone and you have to state your name and your address. And please sign in. Well, I believe it is. I leave it 58-0, so I was 77-teras in a corner lot, and I have a circular driveway. So that's, I think, the ideal situation, because I have a concrete, no concrete, the asphalt driveway. And I want to improve it. But if somebody tells me that I have to reduce it I probably won't do it and most people think the same way because why are you gonna lose? You know a normal driveway that was approved and it's comfortable for you and make you know Me the purpose that I needed to just reduce it if somebody somebody wants to change the design, maybe yes. But that's the only thing. And the other thing that you talk about and this part of the meeting of before is about the trees, the preservation of the trees. I completely agree with the theory on that. We have to, but theirs and happens to me particularly I've been training my pancianas for years because I have a 10,800, 1,800 square footage law. The pancianas can grow up to 50 feet and they look ridiculous in a smaller lot when they're that big. Okay, the item before us is the driveways. Yes, but we can talk about the other thing, no? Yeah, thank you. Please remember to sign in. Can you sign in? Thank you. Okay. So the recommendation is to add language with regards to replacing. So long as what's being repaired or replaced is conforming. If the existing driveway is not conforming in the sense that it was not done with a permit, then at that point they have to comply with the new ordinance. Okay. Yeah. So to that point, Mr. Reciós proposed some language for your consideration. We could modify paragraph D to add after the semicolon existing driveways may be resurfaced with any approved material at the existing nonconforming area and shape. We can legal nonconforming. Legal. Right. Existing legal nonconforming area and shape. We can legal non-conforming. Legal. Right. existing legal non-conforming area and shape. The idea being we don't necessarily want to putting back mulch, right, if that's what their driveways made out of or small gravel. We want them to change to the approved materials that we've called out. Correct. Okay. Mr. Garrett, is that language address your concern? Yeah, I think that's fair it is and I can appreciate legal non-conforming. I'm just wondering some of these older properties You know where when you go in and the microfilms missing where do you where do you what do you do with that? At some point we have to set standards. For sure. This can be the one. I'll back to the rest. At some point we have to set standards. So there's this thing that you know if you cover 80% of it you're good. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So okay. Okay. Any other comments? So here, motion. There was one question. Mr. Miller brought up very large corner lots. In that situation, does the board have some language, but I want to work on it a little more before going to commission. Does this board want to see in those situations no more than one curb cut per side or do you want to allow like a U and a driveway on the side? So no more than three. I think that language could be no more than three curb cuts in total in total and no more than two on one side. That way allows you to do the the you drive and then have people parking in front of your house and use the sidewalk. Okay. But not create two you drives. Perfect. We'll put that together. All right. I think that's fair. So I'll make a motion to as head outline there legally nonconforming with replacement of materials and the corner mod exception and the corner mod exception. Yeah. Okay. Zero second. Second. Second. Second. Take a vote. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Michelle. Yes. Okay. It's unanimous. Thank you, staff. Need a motion on the minutes of August 13th. Motion to approve. Yes, second. I'll second. It's been second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Next meeting date is Tuesday, October 8th. You've got another, don't you have another, I don't know which other, that's never right. Oh, that's it. No, I have no items. Is that item? No, that's not item or stuff. Oh, that's not item or. Next meeting is Tuesday, October 8th. And with that said, this meeting is adjourned. Thank you, board members. Thank you board members. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you being here. Marcus, what do you want us to do with these pants that we can build some to place with? Yeah, we're doing double hand. you you