All right council members it's 8.13 p.m. Okay This will be like we call the like call the work session order if already have to pledge allegiance to the silence both on this large Mr. Haas Mr. Kishnowski here Mr. Laskavis Mr. McDermott here Mr. Perry Mr. Saboteenow. Mr. McDermott. Mr. Perry. Mr. Sanctino. Smith. Stevenson. Here. Mr. Thornton. Here. Mr. Willowitz. Mr. Lombardo. Here. Altrus. All right. Thank you. Any additions or relations to the work sessions agenda? There are motions to approve the agenda. So move to the second. All right motion a second all in favor. Okay. See when discussed budget reports for 24. Thank you. Hello. Good evening. Just quickly, I wanted to do the best reports to come in your packet. The first report is your resume report. We are using ARMS at 84% of the budget or $141,270,000. Tax flux, not 94%, not 110,000,444. Our expenses are at 82,000,, 3, which is 51% of organic, so the normal considering what the end of August. The next report in your package is listed about the transfers followed by the accounts payable import. Your accounts payable report is by a 51% for August, slightly a little last year. The federal report shows a cash balance of $196 million at the end of August. Cash balance at the end of July is $2008 million. The interest range for the month of August is $432,642. Of that, our bank accounts for $24848,000, $4.39. Our year-to-day interest that we've earned in all of our accounts, so far, is $3.7 million. Your ARPA cash balance is at 52 million, $7.44 thousand. Our interest on year-to-date is $2.245, and our interest on the total is at $6.6 million. Just a few other things I want to mention, we're working on finalizing the 2025 County Budget, which will be the Secretary of the Council on 2008. Also, we are a few that was published, and that was for financial advisory services. In relation to that, we have to get that here today. You are going to the next time you've done this, so they'll be talking to about the Any questions on your reports? I just have one question if you don't mind I know you said the ARP for cash balances about 52 million which I'm sure But it's a reason why There's so a lot of entities that have drawn down or there's that okay Tell them they can take their time if they want. Well, they can take it, yeah, I love the bit of silver, right? I mean, like we would like to continue to earn the interest obviously, but we also want to make sure that there's surprises on time. So it kind of rounds that, so if they don't, it's like 5 budget. Excellent. Okay. Any other questions? Mr. Arsene, welcome. That's pretty impressive. 94% has the correct region. And one and a half. So, I think that's something before we're doing a look at making sure this year's budget coverage. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Let's go. Anyone else? All right. Let's move on to the PFM presentation. All right. We're good evening. I do have a hand out here. If you don't mind if I pass that out. Give a digital computer that we can... Okay. All right. Great. We'll just need to get the upstairs to share our afternoon. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, it is? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We're going to call you in three. The office. 71. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So usually I like to come up about this time of the year as things kind of get very hot with the budget Just a little bit regarding the county's debt service just to kind of be accommodated with when you start hearing more information when it comes to the finances and overall budget 25 so we look at the first page the agenda Just a couple of the items that I'm touching on and then we'll watch a quick general market update Obviously, probably most of you heard to do it last week. We'll defend it. So we'll touch on that. A brief overview of the county's existing debt. A little bit on the 2025 tax and participation note. And then a little bit on the county's credit rate. And also happy to answer any questions. They may have a long way as well or any follow-up information after a lead growth season. So pages three and four hit on the short-term brain environment. So that's important when it comes to the best scenarios that you're just hearing about when it comes time to borrow for a tax anticipation note. The short-term rates is kind of what dictates those two main issues. And that's another investment is that the county has. So that's been holding steady for a while. We see here in page three, things trended upward in 2022 and 23 state flat. And now just as of last week, we saw 50 basis point decrease by the Fed and expected to have two more decreases yet for the remainder of this calendar year. So we will start to see those drop more this year, this calendar year, and then more expected next calendar. We'll start to depress your interest earnings a little bit. They just heard about very good report, very great interest earnings. But you probably can see that numbers start to come down. So with lower interest earnings. That also then trains late into what the county has done at this side. You need to go off for another tax anticipation note. Like you've done in the past, I'll be an even smaller number. That should have a positive impact on that rate. So that should come down to that as well. So this is sort of pros and cons when it comes to all that. And page four highlights, it was called the dot plot. It's what a lot of the Wall Street experts are predicting for the Fed Fund's futures. So as I mentioned, that rate just decreased by half and I have to percent, a lot of trees more expected. This just shows what the expectations are. But basically the summary of this page is that by the end of next year, they're expecting Fed Fund rate to be in between four and four and a quarter percent. So that's about a full 1% decrease so we do expect to start to see if the rates come down low. So that's the short-term rate of our income. Page 5 is a quick illustration of the long-term rate of our income. So now here we care more about the long-term rates if the county had to do any other longer-term, say, for capital or the good news that you'll talk about here a little bit. There is an opportunity to refund some of the counties of existing debt next year. So probably by the next time of time, discussions could start being ahead on refinancing some existing debt. And when we talk about refinancing, that's not changing the emberization, that's not stretching it out of shortening that space, so just keeping the same emberization and that's not stretching it out, or shortening that space, so just keeping the same emberization, the lowering that you're straight, and achieving savings, that's kind of the best. The page five, again, is just illustration, on long-term rates, we do, if we kind of look in them, I'll say the bottom left hand corner of that chart, it shows what the current rate is, and about 64% of the time rates have been higher than what we're showing here today. And let's start you back to the early 1990s. So this is a 10 year mutable index, which closely correlates to when accounting goes out to issue debt, what we use in the proxy. A lot of folks, when you go to do your mortgage, you may even say the 10 year treasury as a proxy here in the municipal world, when you use the 10 year MMVV or 10-year B-B index as a proxy. So, again, we're a little bit lower than then historical averages. We're not at the all-time lows that we saw a couple of years ago, but we're still below historical averages. That's a brief update on the rate environment and future expectations. Page 6, as far as the outstanding debt debt so the county continued to pay down It's debt the rating you see does know that you have a pretty rapid pay down compared to other counties of such a good thing So page six looks at the direct data of the county You have series 19 bonds 17 a 15 b 15 a The 19 bonds they were actually, they were a rate modification done in, because that was in 2021 when we were actually able to save the county, a couple hundred thousand dollars by doing that. The 17 Bs and A's, those were for some refinancing that were done and saved the counties from substantial amount of money. And the Series 15 A and Bs as well was refinancing and some restructuring of some of the debt to again achieve a fair amount of present value savings. And then there's a 2017 county Ida bonds and small PEMP best loan. So all total, the direct debt down to the bottom is about $142 million. And that's principal malice, not principal of them that's just principal malice. Yeah question so we're looking at paying down 140 to a million not 120 for a million. Is that correct? It's 124 of direct debt and then there's some knee-surrounded debt that the county also guarantees so that gets you to the total direct debt of about 104. Now we've been talking for many months here about retiring all the debt by 20.20, but at some point, is that include all of the 142 later, just the 124. That's all. Great. Thank you. And we'll have a graph shortly, that shows. Thank you, you bet. And so speaking of that's a good a good statement to page 7. So on the left hand, there's a couple of different exhibits on page 7. But exhibit A on the left hand side shows the total debt service that the county is responsible for. And then you see basically, in 2009, it's the last large year and then you have 30 that's just a small, a small payment due to that year. So this reflects all the outstanding debt of the county. Then exhibit B on the top right. That shows the borrowing capacity. So that's the legal limitation. There's obviously different between legally with the county can borrow, with maybe financial and prudent, kind of two different things. But as far as the remaining borrowing capacity, as of just a few weeks ago, the county had about 684 million capacity that if you needed borrow, we're not recommending you borrow, this is that matter, anything else. But legally, you have that ability to do that. Yeah, we don't want to talk about that. So that's also a very good thing, but the credit rating agency looks at that you have a lot of capacity that you're not even close to your capacity or your debt. As far as the city you have a very traditional debt portfolio of now all luxury debt and the regulatory debt and as far as the average rates of the counties debt and exhibit the this reflects what's called the arbitrage yield from each one of the series. So the 2019 average rate is about the 2017. The 2017 A's and B's average rate is about the 2.79, 17 and 17 ICDA, about the 2.86 and 15 and 3 percent rate. So the county does have outstanding, is at a very good, very good industry. It's a very long history. So that's great. And then to kind of show that graph, and I saw a different format on PJ, this is now kind of worn on a numerical format, that we kind of use more from a budgeting purpose. This just kind of lays out per calendar year, all the outstanding debt issues comes to and for those are the two issues that become possible or refundable next year so the one is probably on November 15th of next year and the other one is December 15th we're legally able to close about 90 days prior to those called days so finally back up in time, that could maybe be a summertime, kind of starting, at least in discussion to see if it's worthwhile to move forward with anything. But as of right now, if rates kind of hold constant or you can drop a little bit, there could be some substantial savings by refunding those, maybe to the $2 million of your per cell that you could realize by again just going from a higher rate to a lower rate. So nothing you can do now, we just kind of have to wait until a little bit closer to the call date. And then there's some other call dates or refunding dates in 2020, so maybe the county could take advantage of that as well. But again, this just kind of lays out that annual amounts do each year, that's principal and interest in each one of those series, and then in totality. The county does also have on page nine to remaining interest rate swaps so some of the swap for terminated in church years ago. There are two out saying that we've been monitoring now for quite some time. There's only a few years left on those transactions, maybe a couple of them, they've goes out three more years. If you once it's hermitate those now, you could basically get out about a break even. We're showing down in the charger that it's about a negative $10,000 cost to get out of the one and about a negative $10,000 cost to get out of the other one. So at this point, I still would not recommend getting out of it. It's more just watching it because it was also cash flows that are occurring between the swap town parties and the county. And right now, that's a positive impact to the county on a financial basis. So I think one of those where again, we just kind of continue to monitor, go from a value standpoint, if you did, you know, one entertainment idea, that's probably one of the lower points that has been as far as that, you know, being able to terminate at more or less a break even. But again, there is some positive cash flows that's coming to the county because of that. And then page 10, if the county does decide to go out for another tax anticipation note for 2025, process kind of needs to start relatively soon. So we're just saying here in October, start discussing the size of that, and then potentially R.P. that would be distributed in November. Could be a potential resolution approved by the county and then closing on January 2nd and then on the right hand side show the sort of trend on the size of the tax anticipation of so we've been on very good trend kind of going down in size to the last one in 2014 was 11 and a half million that was small for one to date. So, again, that's something you have to work with the administration on and as it does, it kind of does decide to go out in their little process to talk. And then lastly, from a credit rating perspective, so this has been always a good conversation and we've had the county now for quite some time. The credit rating has fluctuated a fair amount over the years. Right now it is at the highest point that it's been. So on page 12 shows, basically from February, 2003 to basically now, the rating is a standard in PORS A. And to kind of put that in perspective perspective the box over in the right hand side Showed the different rating categories triple A being the best and then three sub categories in the double A bracket and then three sub categories in the A A bracket and so the county's sort of right in the middle there and then there's three Capigores within the triple B and then you go from a low investment grade. So right now again in the county that the high suspended at the A, there wasn't a minus prior to that from 2017 to 19 there was a triple B minus so it was just on the edge of investment grade from 15 to 17. It did drop down in the non-investment grade or the Delta plus. And so again, we've seen, you know, been with the county for quite some time seeing the different fluctuations of that rating. Obviously that rating is very good for the county when we're seeing where it is right now. When it comes time to maybe doing a tax anticipation note, the banks look very favorable to that. If the county entered the bottom market next year to refinance and debt, having a strong credit rating is very good. And so we just highlight a couple things on page 12 that the rating you just put down is important. We as the rating could improve. Obviously the overall economy, the growth maintained reserves. Credit rating you see the love reserves to have that cushion necessary. Ways to rate a weekend, adopt structurally in bounce budgets, reserves weekend materially, and short to pension contribution are unexpectedly issue debt. So that could potentially drop the rating which could have some small return implications. And then on page 13, kind of an excerpt from the last credit rating, just don't be worthwhile to mention, we have upgraded the Lernd County and removed the rating cap through the county sustained structural balance, dumps through the willingness to raise taxes and fees, and provoked the management of pension plans, and the past was there in county and suffered from structural operating and balance, largely due to rising fixed costs and not much unmatched remedy growth, that resulted in negative signs of our fund amounts. So that was one of the statements they made last February. So when they do, when radiation does, they're up to their credit. They look at a lot of different things. Obviously, you look at the reserves they have, they put a lot of emphasis in that. They look at how the budget had been adopted and structurally balanced or not. And what goes into that is, one of the key components is tax-couple. Obviously, a big component of the county budget. And that is always a little bit of tension with that discussion, because you want to raise taxes, you don't want to raise taxes, obviously, from a tax-couple standpoint, you want to raise taxes, you want to raise taxes, obviously, from a tax rate standpoint, you want to keep taxes down, or a management standpoint, you want to make sure the county is healthy, but not have excessive reserves. So the front grain agencies, obviously they need to, and they want to see the structurally balanced budgets, they do like to see the tax increases, they don't like to see overburden the tax rate, they don't have about it, but they do like to see the boards willing this to raise taxes when needed, and they sell you a couple times, you know, 2020 and 2003, when taxes were increased, then you would favor or improvements to the county budget and how that was impacted. So, you know, a lot of stuff that goes involved in that sort of, it composes everything. All the different revenue enhancements, one of the big things is taxes, expenditure, reduction, wherever you can do that. And having substantial reserves, which we kind of heard before, my, the county sitting on a good amount of money at the moment earning good interest, and so that obviously we will help with future discussions when they come up. Overall though, I think counties are in a good position with its debt, so as the level of the debt service, the level of the overall debt, you know, paying down the debt rapidly, the good interest rates on the existing debt and the flexibility that kind of going to be having in the next few years, we all refinance any of that debt if the interest rates weren't doing so. So with that, be happy to answer any questions. Yeah. All right, thank you very much Scott. Any questions for council members? As Tross? I'm sure, well, Mr. Voxbury, also a pleasure. Thanks for making that thing so very clear. I personally appreciate it. Well, appreciate your reports. I also remember the B plus days, the double B plus days, and that was a terrible time to be a government. But even though we're on page 13, S&P forgot that we got a button that fixed the air swap that put us on a trajectory of a disaster where the exponential density went far at that. So as if he's always just, what kind of runs me a little the wrong way? But my questions are, do you really think it's possible that we could really refinance on this? Then it looks like more of the fed, even if the rate decreases and with the municipal debt rates the way they are. I don't see too much wiggle room there because we already have really exceptional rates here. You do have very little debt. Now some of the coupons on the debt that have the call dates coming up soon are at 4% or 5%. So when the bond sold, the total debt is higher, coupons below are yielded, what the investors want it. And so I think there still will be an opportunity for the county to potentially save money next year, even with where rates are today. Wow, yep. And that's the importance of having those coffee insurance for on the debt. So it's always easier to just say, when we're going to do it, we're going to make it on call. Because it makes it a lot easier to sell. Investors robbed it to go by now called death. But we've always pitched very hard to go through our key process or negotiating with the bank or an underwriter to make sure that there's a call feature that the county can eventually take advantage of and hopefully refinance them that. So I am optimistic that you will be able to realize some savings next year. I thought we resolved all the call a little bit. Was that in response to the borrowing from the fears of the next one? That's called one time. With the debt and some of that we did. Well, so the ones that we're looking at for next year, if you go back to page 8, is the 15 A's, which that was, you know, to one of the earlier points, that was one of the series that we did back in 2015, that's terminated. The one swap, that, you know, we're gonna throw a lot of work on that. And then the 2017 IBA bonds, there were a couple of transactions done in 2017 to reach finance and debt. And again, at that point, even though those transactions were still relatively short. We still made sure to put a 10 year call feature on those so that we could have conversations in the future about refinancing. If the market conditions all went up correctly. Okay, I don't remember that so thank you very much. Fantastic. Two hour was too. So the train amount there will look and I'll put that on the page 10 too. I mean, just here, for our finance story, if you're talking about our business, we're talking about how we were 94% collection rate, which I'm curious about, if you're across the countries. It's very good collection rate. So, do you anticipate us really training on that train, knowing our recent asks? Well, the county, I mean, there's cancel worksheets that need to be done to justify it. So I think the best case in areas that you would not need them, that would clearly be the best choice. You know, maybe you just need even a smaller one. The county is a great trend going from $20 million down to $18, $17,000 you kind of don't need one, you're immediately smaller, but that's something that when you go through some of those cash flow worksheets to be able to justify the IRS that you do the fact that you need one. You just can't go to the kind of do one, just because you have to be able to justify it through all the various legal documents. So, yeah, best case scenario is I'm not back because you don't need to do it. That's what we like to see. That's a great time. That's great time. We like that trajectory. Thank you so much. The last question I have then is looking at ways we can, we can, it's on page 12 or everybody for the council members, that would increase our recovery. So this question from Ms. Rosal, as well, where are we at with our pension contribution? Because that really was a little once upon a time when we could call on our way back. Yeah, I think that's been, we kind of been hitting the target number on that, I believe. I don't think there's been any issues recently on that, so everything's been going good. Yeah, we're fully funding the contribution that we have. And how about this start one, come on in there? We're starting one in common. But we still have to decide the right of the overall. We have been paying our annual analysis today. Our car obligation, I sure look retirement board or obligation to admit every year that I'm here the last three years. So we're a very good shape of the pension. I just wanted to kind of do it. And you know, having a voice to know that. With the gas and your requirements, are we already on target with the gas and the requirements are we are really on target with the yes the general. Yeah. Yeah, I think everyone is looking very good from that perspective. Very nice. Any other questions? Thank you. Anybody else? All right. Thank you very much. You bet they do. Appreciate it. All right, next up we have a discussion regarding the Butler Township Farm leases. We are reviewing all of our leases and we'll be reviewing the Butler Farm leases as well. Okay. Any discussion on that? Anybody? Who would be our opinion? Or, what? New people, police, do I? What would you have discussed the option? But that's what we're really need for. I mean, historically, these cases actually are from hand-shakes years ago. And what were you doing with them? are from hand-stakes years ago. And we'll be hearing them. What point did that was actually, when we were doing petriots and we were doing chicken, and putting up our RFP, there was something that was interesting. But Mr. Satt, you know what I'm talking about? People leave Satt and maybe suddenly. That's interesting to hear more than what we're getting on that now. But also, the least just needs to be updated, even if there wasn't a normal change. Any other questions, comments? All right, thank you. Moving on, discussion regarding the ordinance and primary protection for election workers for intimidation, harassment and assault and enhancing collaboration with the Blues and County District's Charities Office. Council members, there is the original ordinance is the first one and it is obviously labeled as such and then there's the revised ordinance and I am asked for some of the revisions to be highlighted. They're both in the agenda packet and misman Smith since your ordinance I'm going to go on over some of the changes and you tell us a little bit about some of the discussion You have the departments that have been affected or will be affected by this So as you can see The most updated for them is the 13th Recognizing that we can't amend it here, but it's the interest of time, especially today, and wants to all to have the most updated ordinance of 13th is the final. The first change is that the original ordinance discuses difficulties and rather than acknowledging difficulties, we wanted to enhance the administration's initiatives and show a sign of support there than the entirety of any involvement with the district attorney has been removed. We would not be able to do that in my research. And then we ask for an encouragement for documentation that is new. The administration has encouraged him that policy to systematically document any incidents of intimidation, harassment, or assault against election workers. The policy should ensure any such documentation involves detailed descriptions of the incidents and the available evidence that can support people proceedings. Again, this is an encouragement because I am not intending to tell the administration how to move its job, but it is not the point for this ordinance in any way, shape or form. It is to support the administration so it may so choose that might be a good thing for them to do. So this government has been entrusted with the safeguarding the rights and safety of those upholding democracy through the electoral process. In fact, we've seen in the past a few executive and judicial branches have been called upon in recent memories. But now I call upon the legislative branch for our local government to do exactly that. Some interesting context here. There are existing federal laws that provide protections that local measures are increasingly necessary because there are holes in the state and federal laws. We have the challenges. We know this was significant turnover. And, in fact, 2020, the survey indicated that one in three election officials knew someone who left their position due to state-of-the-conserves. And it will lead that it will manage the program and our current election director Emily Coup, who are on CBS and is discussing the threats that Emily has had that we're very scary and discussing the need for election workers protections and that this is a very serious issue. I also believe that same new report cited that a well one third of election workers had left their positions since 2020, which leads to an enormous loss of institutional knowledge. And we all know how important institutional knowledge is. We need it to run the Europe. I, this administration has a great job with a very difficult job. This ordinance is to support the administration and the job they do. And to tell people that this kind of behavior is not tolerated, and to tell learned employees that we are there to support them. It's also to tell the administration that we are there to support them. Some key provisions that I have here, a expanded definition of election officials, to include volunteers, tenders, staff, and others involved in the election process beyond the just poll workers and the federal and state law. It's just poll workers. That's one of the gaps it fills. Another large gap is doxing. You may know what doxing is. It's when there's maliciously post personal information like addresses, and there certainly is kind of employees. Our names are available. Certain addresses and phone numbers and other personal information is found. And that can be very scary when you're in a position like the election worker. And it also outlines clear prohibitions against interference intimation retaliation or harassment of election workers, aligned with these protections with the Pennsylvania crime code, as well as the election code. And I would make a big note here that the behavior that this ordinance aims to protect our election workers against is not protected speech under the First Amendment. This is not intended to curtail First Amendment speech. Of course, we always have the right to peacefully protest and I would protect that, especially as an attorney. But it made no mistake about it. This behavior is not protected by the first amendment. In fact, there are multiple prime scopes that prevent exactly this kind of behavior. It does not specifically talk about election workers, but there's certainly a criminal statute against harassment. We have definitions we know it is not protected speech, so that argument is not a flip lawyer. So, in conclusion, the point of his ordinance is to protect, to emphasize the proactive stance to ensure election workers are safe and respected. And it also happens in duty to protect election workers as perfectly as they protect the votes and the voices of Luzon County. I sat here tonight listening to this argument where drop boxes and that they were taken away because they were a safety concern. It is simply illogical and nonsensical to say in the same breadth that drop boxes need to go because there are safety concerns but we don't need an election or an minister to protect our own workers from any safety concerns. Does anyone have any questions? I have one or two questions I reading through this ordinance. I'm just, you know, I know you spoke a little about, I guess a bit, but I just think I'm kind of wondering what exactly this ordinance is physically doing, except for saying, hey, you'll watch your workers, we gotta get back. It's physically unique in a tangible offense to the last sentence, recommend to Dawson. Read it. Is that not? Is that not something that's already protected a tangible offense to the last time, to threaten them to dox them. Read. Is that not something that's already protected under the law? By any individual? No, I'm not saying Femola. You can't harass an individual. If that's the criminal law, this is not a criminal law, this is a little abordance, as a difference. Okay. So, if they were a poll worker, they could be harassed today, but in two weeks if we pass this they can't be harassed anymore by anybody and it makes them doesn't really make a lot sense. No, why would you think that? That's what you're seeing being simulated. Not at all. Okay, and did you speak to any of the departments that would be affected by this? Have you spoken with the county manager? No, I am not. The department of the county that will be affected by this have you spoken with county manager and the No, I am not department of the county manager of elections. I Have not so for the well, I'm not so for the elections I'm not so for the county manager I found that there is an e for this and I Move for you. Did you ask them if they wanted it? No and I moved forward. Did you ask them if they wanted it? No. OK. But I don't believe that we might get any. I mean, there was an email that was sent out by Miss Cook several days ago. There was. There was. There also been other statements by Miss Cook that state the different story. So I also believe that it's important because I think there may be some intimidation simply being in this position. This is a very difficult position right now. We've seen how much people are responding to this kind of thing. We saw it here tonight. Third citizen voice in their opinions. I'm on both sides of the issue. I see any intimidation or... I didn't mind, that's all I said. I said people respond to this. Okay, got it, Mr. Barnes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, of course, I think everyone around this table is really fully support protecting people from intimidation under a rationale. My couple of concerns I have, this ordinance strongly affects two divisions in the county, two departments, the Bureau of Elections, and the district attorney's office, who would be prosecuting and bringing charges against people. I think so, Chavez. Is it my honor to remember? Is it my honor to stand there? You have not discussed this with our district attorney Sam San Guadalchee who I would discuss this? No, not at all. In fact, have you discussed it with the family coax the director of your election? Because the local ordinance would be brought by the police. Yes. I have two statements for an on-micode that are different. Okay, but you personally had compensation with her regarding the ordinance. Or what an email. Well, if you go to the phone or the event or you talk to her directly or you picked them up, Or would he even answer my opinion person? Well, if I go full on your inventory and you talk to her directly, you're picked on the full on the discussion. No, and that's enough. Okay. Any other thing that does concern the obvious with you? First of all, I'm going to believe that law such as harassment and intimidation already exist, and protect people. I concerned with the penalties that are imposed by disorders. Under title, date, certain 31, 22. Yeah, I'm a little bit just finished. My point, please, I ran a thousand dollar penalty and if the person can't pay it, they can sign up to 90 days in jail. My problem with a lot of this kind of dialogue is that it introduces what I like to refer to as the thought police. In other words, when some of those are police places and they are upset about something and maybe it's a valid concern and they yell their stream about something that happened to them or their ballot above the lot, some of them in that polling place could say, he's intimidating me. Or she's harassing me. Now what one person deems at harassing their intimidation, another person would say in the same room. No, those are valid concerns. Those are very legitimate concerns. According when I read this, they read it. If someone deems that language that's harassing your intimidation, charges could be forthcoming. And if that person can't spend or come over to a thousand bucks a person who may have been upset and concerned about their ballot or lost whatever couldn't have spent a 90 days in jail legitimate law binding citizen and that's why I coming out not supporting this law for protecting workers but not in this manner. First Chair, what you're referring to is the slippery slope argument. And if you study philosophy and logic, you know that slippery slope argument is a logical fantasy. We already have harassment statutes as we already discussed. It has already been definitions of harassment. That's not how the slip work. that's not how any statute works. It would be under the, it would be within the discretion of any police officer or law enforcement officer that was called, just like every other crime is. And this is not even under a criminal statute, this is simply a little of the ordinance. If you read title, like I said, I believe it's section 31-22, the penalties for local ordinance in this way are $1,000 and up to 90 days in jail, which is exactly what it is for a summary offense. I understand, but I don't see that line between your and that it could only be enforced by local police officer or law enforcement. That's an action in your ordinance. Well, I think it could be enforced by local police officer or law enforcement? That's an action in here. Well I think it could be enforced by any of the poll workers themselves that are staying there to arrest. That's not how it's followed by a complaint. Okay, they could file a complaint and anyone else could file a complaint. Right. And I could feel arrested by something that we had and their misderminances. Right. And now I'm certainly sorry. I got to have a warrant that said that they feel they're a raster and today and let's go to the cops and get this guy hangers yeah I don't have to go to the authority right and it's still their discretion I respect your opinion and I'm just saying I'm coming out against a but thank you you're welcome yeah I'm just discussing. Mr. Hoss, how are you? Hi, everyone. And I love you guys. I can't support the Cedar. And I'm going to give you a couple of stories. I was able to serve as a jet collection for through many collection cycles. And one, I don't know what election was. 22 maybe. We had the machines that the time date was not correct on the machine. Right? the machines that the time date was not correct on the machine. So the machine on the property opened it up. I don't know if that's my fault. But it was too late to rectify because the voter had already got the machine, the voter got upset. And I was upset. And things happened, human air happens, and we fixed that problem. But just like Mr. Stoltford was talking about, I can't... I don't ever want to put some into position where they're voicing their degree of... I don't want to say disgust, but they... It goes upset and he had a right to be upset because it just looked bad, right? So myself is a judge of elections. I though I thought to contact the Bureau and we got to work down and everybody was satisfied but it's incumbent that our election workers are they're doing public service we have to be trained but I also have very competent constable there and the constable is the legal authority in the polling place so we have their systems in place to protect our polling workers. Another situation was this guy came in with a mask on, was like Halloween, you know this guy was. I looked at my house, he looked at me and we're like, how do we deal with this? Right? So ask the voter, please remove your mask. We just identify you so you can vote, right? Korean can't just have to run a country on the street. He said, oh, I voted me at times. Nobody asked me to do that before. He complied. It turned out it was really okay, but these things happened. And again, a very good relationship with your constable is, I think, worth any legislation we can possibly pass. Either way, you have an Harrisburg. Elect elections are run by the local people. And that's how we keep our elections fair and free. We have to keep it local. We can keep the fraud out of the way. We can keep the community intact if we really keep the local level. And I think we're better if we encourage people to serve and to participate in the community. And I think we just lost that. With this whole debate discussion, one of these past few years, we've had a couple very high profile people, the courts and some very lot of people that just upset what's been the case for a very long time. A very long time. A very long time. We've had very successful elections. So I can't support this for that. I understand where you've come from, but I think the discussion is warranted, and it was a place to have it. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mayor, by reading this a local ordinance, I am trying to keep a local. And this is just another option for any local authority to use. This would actually be lower than the harassment statute that we have now. For example, our assault set is simply, you can convince an assault simply by making someone afraid you're going to assault them. Who defines that? All statues are a little ambiguous. That's why courts interpret them. But we do have a interpretation of these kinds of incidents. And like I mentioned before, it's not something that anyone can just say, I'm White Cross who's on my own, local ordinances are enforced by police, so there would be a third party in the federal arbor, who looks at the situation, and as we know from our police, takes a very two-sided look at it, looks at it from afar, from away from the emotions of what's happening, and makes a rational decision. We entrust our police to do that with our crimes, go and I entrust our authorities to do that with this. Our local authorities, I'm with you, it's important to keep the local. I think it's important that we protect our election workers. Our new county manager, like I said, and our own election bureau, director of elections, went on to the UDS and needed to discuss how very threatened election workers are. And it's very sad. And when I took an oath, I promised to do the best for the Reserve County. And I believe this is the best for the Reserve County. And I want to do the best for the Reserve County. And I believe this is the best for the Reserve County. And I want to do the best for our workers and our best for our elections. And while people certainly can protest, share, but all it means. Let's keep it peaceful. Mr. Ross, I think if we were in one of the public to have free-tear elections, I think we should encourage them to sign on today our election work posts, minority-visuality and spectral elections, judges elections, machine workers, and hospitals. This is how we make it work. And I think that would be a very good routine to take the legislation to just encourage that. Thank you. Is your hair? I'll throw it quickly. Mike, thank you. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Thank you very much. I appreciate what you did and appreciate your compassion to what you put into words. My only concern is, Mr. Schien, did you get a chance to review this? I asked. Where are we at? Well, what is your concern? Are you okay with it? There are some issues depending on how we're going to handle it. If it's something that we can be, that we have administration view, it says it's encouraged. So if it's encouraged, administration could do it or not do it. There's no right now, if there's any complaints about any problems at the following places, they keep record of that as it is, so I don't know what we are to do or what the Bureau of Relations is to do, they're not prosecutors. So the most they can do is if anybody makes a complaint to them directly, they could just take that information and give it to the district attorney office. I don't think them collecting evidence is something that district attorneys want. They generally do their own investigation. They're not going to want untrained, people untrained in criminal prosecution to keep that evidence, collect that evidence, and hand it over to them. So, I don't know what the district attorney's position is. I haven't spoken to him about it. That's position is. I'm hoping to arrive at it. That's a manable. Doesn't change the attack. The... It's up to council with the first and the next ordinance has been changed substantially. And the first one was initiated. There was four votes. There was four votes to introduce it. And now if it's deemed to have a significant of change, it would have to be reintroduced for the news to them. And that could happen at the next meeting on the voting agenda. Attorney Skane, who would be in that as a significant of a change? I personally, I don't really know that it is, but who would determine that? The US? Council. Yes, I mean, it's... Is that microphone over there, mate? I think it's just your microphone. Yeah, that's a loud jacket. I don't know. I don't know. I'm so sorry. Sorry, I'm so sorry. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that could be a case. I don't really talk to this student. Yeah, it was, it was, it was a change. So when we put it out for the residents to see the first time, it was a lot different than this time. Now since this one was published, you know, we may not get complaints from the public if you vote on it, but you still have to do a vote to amend, right? Because it was an introduced clue. So with the vote to amend, you'll need six votes to get it to amend. And then you have to vote on the passed vote. OK. Just sort of logistically, not about this ordinance, but in general, when we're writing legislation, that's one of the things that I've asked it is, if we can just make sure that the office's a lot, it gets a chance to review these things in that way, when they're done, they're done properly inform and the departments have been consulted and things like that. And this was, and I understand that there were some revisions that were made based on some public comments that were made myself in district attorney and the elections director. And that's good. But that's just one of the reasons why it's really important that council members are bringing their legislation to the office of law and making sure that it's reviewed before it comes here. And I bear some of the responsibility on this because it was brought to my attention probably within that time period where it could have been placed onto the agenda not violating the sunshine law, but it was certainly passed the time when the agenda came out. So, go ahead. The newest version, we did, that was given to us in a plenty of time and events. Sure. The first one was just, you know, came in at work sessions and we hadn't seen it. And I was just mindless understanding in terms. But I would like to note for the Sunshine Act, I don't believe that this has changed too much because the same topic. Yeah. I don't think it's it. I personally don't think it's an issue. That's why I specifically asked for both versions of the ordinance with the amended version and highlights and all that to be on this agenda so that members of the public can read all of these changes and what the difference was between the first and the second and that's what sort of why I asked you. Again, with that in the beginning. Yeah, so anybody else in the comments, questions? I appreciate any support for action workers, which includes not only their staff, but our full workers and judges and elections, but the administration will have a response before the next meeting. Thank you. Right. Just what I wanted to make it very clear, this was not in any way to tell the administration that they're doing a bad job. In fact, it was a way to support the administration in our workers, because they are doing a bad job in fact it was the way to support the administration and our workers because they are doing a good job but a very difficult job. Great job. Thank you. I think we all agree that they're doing a good job. They start really needed support. You know, councils have to give them support whenever we can. Any other questions, comments? All right. Moving on. Last topic, I hope. Here's a 2025 budget meeting schedule, which is in the back of your packet. It's slightly different than it sometimes has been in the past, where we would have these budget work sessions on different evenings than council meetings. Sometimes we would have them on council meeting nights, other nights we would not have them on those nights. But all of these are going to be on, I believe they're all on regular council voting session and work session nights. So, you know, the meetings may extend a little bit longer, we'll put it on as long as this one. But they'll extend a little bit longer, or we'll point on as long as this one, but they'll extend a little bit longer at the evening. So make sure we're prepared, particularly for the particular divisions that will be at those meetings. So make sure that you've reviewed that section of the budget and if you have any questions for those specific administrators, that's the awesome time to ask those questions because they can come there and they can review things online and buy online with you and in the meantime if you have any questions for them before the meeting or at the interim, I have found that personally just reached out to them via email or something like that and saying, hey, is this online item why you need $10,000 or when you needed $8,000 last year or something like that? They'll usually give you an answer of 1, 2, 3. So, does anybody have any questions on the actual schedule itself? I just want to commend the budget finance director as a matter of result and the kind of manager for real prox more for getting his budget together as quickly as they are putting it out in a very timely manner and employing any fish in the very most tied by having the time to meet in Mexico. Thank you. Good. Mr. Os, yes. Comment? I was going to make a motion on the German interview. Oh, okay. We need public comment. Yes, we do. Anybody got it? Well, if there's no other comments, public comment, go ahead. Mr. Scherrer. Anybody? Well, if there's no other comments, public comment, go ahead. Mr. Scherker. I'm glad you're welcome. What's up? There we go. I'm glad you got my name. God, we should be your own Kingston. Am I permitted to ask questions or...? You're permitted to address the council as a whole. Comments have to come to the chair. If you have questions, you can certainly state the questions, but the council doesn't really have to respond. So just if you want to state your questions, use your time, and then the council member will feel it lost to respond or you know whatever they they can But just yet they're sure how to do the chair so councilman Smith I Mr. Chair sorry Yeah, sorry, Mr. Chair councilman Smith stated that she she pointed to The meat earlier earlier tonight as proof or evidence of the need for this ordinance. I guess my question would be, was there any behavior that happened tonight? You know, there was no violence. Was there any doubt be considered under threat or intimidation or any or harassment? You know, I think that's what it's hard getting here. I think everyone's noticed that there's been an uptick in no, at least they're a Republican party and local involvement from various different people and all different areas. And I think that this ordinance is a reaction to that. It's an acknowledgement. It's like, oh well, actually now we need to get pushed back. And we've heard a lot tonight about it or disenfranchisement. I think that this is meant to disenfranchise that people have recently gotten involved and to tell them, if you make anyone feel a certain way, well then you're going to be facing a thousand dollar fine with too many accounts for either or 90 years of men, and essentially is there to make us scared of being involved and scared of voicing our opinion. To the best of my knowledge tonight, I don't think there was any other, there were some people talking out of turn which you addressed, but to the best of my knowledge tonight there was nobody threatening or harassing or intimidating, at least intimidating, than I saw. So I think this is meant to essentially create a fuck primer that is codified into law in this county, which the district attorney will be required to prosecute and address. And I think that, you know, I want to behave tonight in the courts with a first amendment which is new chairman chair Technology and I appreciate that and I think that you know, we that's all the intention about all of us is to continue Be hitting that way and I respectfully request that you once again project this ordinance because it's here to create Telecrime in this county and we have our first right and we utilize it tonight and we will continue to do this out. Thank you so much. Thank you. Ms. Policana in the audience. We have one hand up on the Zoom. Mark, Mr. Rapele. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mark Rapele, here's a little bit of speaking. First of all, when I'm to end off my three-dispelver comment by the same Mr. Chairman, this is Mark Vibov, here's a little bit of speaking. First of all, I wanted to end off my period of trouble to come into my sentence, Mr. Chair. That at the end of the story, when it came to my mother's country, Chekl Sovakiya, and how it ended when the useful idiots, Hethelton, and Persecuted their several citizens, it ended up as being using a valid draw box being stopped by non-citizens coming from the Soviet Union. And then the Communist took over the national government and therefore in 1948, then in 1948, February 1948, the Communist Landsat, the Hunters. And took over lands, market property, eliminated first amendment rights, human rights were pretty much outflow in the road. So I don't want to see that out in my home town,'t think you guys want to see it get out of County. And to address the point by for the ordinance by Councilwoman Brent Smith that was product of the rate. Mr. Chair, she put up the point about the crimes, the crime code and sentencing guidelines. I would just like to report on county council and I do believe that the commission on sentencing determines sentencing guidelines and as far as finding these that are initiated and are to be given by the judges, excuse me, the state judges from our common police judges to our Supreme Court judges. So I think this is an overreach by Councilwoman Smith in terms of the Constitution under Article 9 Section 2, my sentence that the municipality with the home will charter shall not to proceed the laws that apply throughout the state, the home will charter board to Constitution at any time. So I would agree with you, Mr. Chairman, and the vice chairman to infer with the district of the church of the 13th, maybe even the court administrator, and also the state, especially at the University of the Center, Lisa Baker, who's the center of the judiciary committee in our office. That's all I have, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much and I'll be meeting everyone. Thank you, Mr. Reboh, anybody else for public comment? Motion adjourned. Thank you. On favor. Both, ladies and gentlemen,