Yes. Mayor and council, we are live. Good evening everyone. Welcome to the April 7th, 2025 meeting of the Pasadena City Council. The council did meet in closed session to discuss AIMS, ABC and D, and there's no reportable action. Roll call. Council member Cole. Present. Councilmember Hampton. Blessed and honor to be here. Councilmember Jones. Here. Councilmember Lion. Here. Councilmember Madison. Here. Councilmember Miseuda. Here. Vice Mayor Revis. Here. Mayor Gordo. Here. There's a quorum of the Council President. Okay Mr. Jones will you lead us in the the Pledge of Allegiance. Please stand, April. Right hand over your art. Ready? Begin. I pledge allegiance to the flag. Jones, would you lead us in the pleasure of allegiance? Please stand, great will. Right hand over your art. Ready, begin. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Leave people from the meaner. for all. Okay. If I can ask Greg DeVink, Michael King, and our representatives and friends from Pasadena beautiful to come forward with me now. Sarah. Yes, Sarah. As you all know, we have a strong and deep history, deep rooted, you might say, history and Pasadena of a beautiful urban forest, and ensuring that Pasadena stands out as it does because of our urban forest. And today we celebrate Arbor Day in Pasadena. It was established in 1872 and encourages the planning of trees in urban wildlife, wildland areas to protect renew and manage trees in the urban forest in order to encourage a healthy ecosystem. And in Pasadena, we have a history of investing in our urban forest and ensuring that we lead the way. And I tell people, if you've ever seen a picture of the San Gabriel Valley from satellite images. You can pick out Pasadena right away based on its urban forest and the greenery that you see. And I believe that that makes us an even more special city. And today we have Amina and Sarah here from passing a beautiful who have been a big partner with the city and ensuring that our urban forest is successful and beautiful and that our city is beautiful. We also have Greg DeVinc and Michael King from our Public Works Department in Urban Forestry Division who ensure that the city does its part in not only planting but maintaining our urban forest. So on behalf of the City Council, I would like to say that we are committed to trees as defining features of this great city On April 12th the city will plant trees in district seven and around the Roseville Oakdale neighborhood Through a long standing partnership with passing the beautiful foundation and Therefore we have the city council. I do hereby proclaim April 12th 2025 in Pasadena as Arbor Day. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. May I have a photo up here? Mr. Johnson, please. Jason, can you come out? Here, I'll come over on this side. Hi. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Thank you Mayor. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. I don't have a plan speech. We do have over 60,000 trees that the city has in our right of way. It is something to be very proud of and I'm hoping with council support that's already been demonstrated to really increase those numbers. We do want to update our tree master plan. We do want to adjust our policies so that we can get them as cost effective as possible and just always increase the canopy. Thank you The city as well as pass passing in beautiful for the work that they do in our community. As the mayor mentioned when you look at satellite images of our city you can see all the greenery and how beautiful less our community is and it's because of the work of volunteers. our neighbors here that care deeply about our community. I did have just one request of passing and beautiful. And that's we have a heat map in the city of locations where there are not as many trees planted and I would hope that the Pasadena Beautiful as well as our public worst department will look in as we are looking at planting over 600 trees this year that the majority of those trees will go in areas where they are the hottest areas in the city. But I am super grateful for the work that you guys do. I spend a lot of time, when I was with my girls when we go on miniature vacations, I always look at different locations and I say, well, there's not a lot of trees around here. I have a profound appreciation for trees more so than I ever have. A lot of that has to do with Amina. She's like, my resident, Arbor, always tell people they say, when I cut a tree, I'm like, well, you know, call Amina first. If she says if she says okay then I'll be good with that too but no thank you so much I appreciate y'all. Quickly I would also like to say I know you want to get out of here but thank you very much last year when you were here for Arbor Day I cornered Amina before she got out the door and was like how do I get on on the list for this? And Amino was like, just tell me you want trees. And I was like, I want trees. So that's how we got it this year. And I really appreciate it. And in fact, we selected a part of the neighborhood that is part of the least forested in all of District 7. So this is sort of the north part of the Roseville Oakdale neighborhood and is very much in need of trees. And so come out and join us on the 12th when we're planning. All right, yep, see you then. Thank you. Thank you. And I think it's also appropriate to think residents who do their part on private property to ensure that our tree canopyseating is healthy. So it's a strong partnership between passing a beautiful, the city of Pasif, and of course our residents who also maintain trees on private property. Okay, thank you everyone. With that, we'll move to public comment for matters not on the agenda. Thank you Mayor. We have 10 speaker cards so we'll give two minutes for each speaker. Olga Santos is the first speaker, followed by Roy Bessera and Olden Denham and Yadi. Olga, are you coming forward? Is Olga here? Olga? No? No, not olden yet. Sorry, Roy Barsera followed by then Olden denim. Okay. And then Yadi. So if you hear your name, please work your way to the front of the room. My name is Roy Visera. I live in 73 North Carolina, Pasadena. And the reason that I'm here is because I've been a victim of bandalism in my vehicle several times, slash and tires, breaking windows, breaking into my house. I called the police department several times and they just file a report and nothing gets done. And now the people who I believe have been committing this crimes, Lula crosses through from where I live in a three floor building and they being saying death threats to me. So I'm just wondering, where do I go so I can get an investigation about this matter? And I have some names because I've heard the names of the people. And they're all connected with a porn site. And I believe also a drug cartel. And they are pretty powerful because they keep saying that you can't do anything about it, you can't do anything about it. So that's. Thank you. Yeah, we'll direct you to the police department. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Olden denim followed by Yadi, then Sean Wakasa, then Justin, we will. Mr. denim, good to see you. Welcome. Good afternoon, good evening. Oh, heavens, a hard to break, I'm here again. And this is not a new subject, but I do wanna, I do wanna thank Tyrone for suggesting that we agendaize to build what I brought up. I also want to thank our city attorney for meeting with me this week. As well as our city manager, they met with me this week and we had conversation not all about AB 392, but partially was about that. And in these conversations, I have now more conviction and affirmation in my mind and in my heart that this bill, this law, which isn't law, should be a determining factor of shootings from here fourth. There should never be another shooting when there wasn't imminent danger. Again, we should have a, if nothing else, there should be a gen die so we can discuss the ways of having that become a part of Pasadena that any shooting in Pasadena will have to be justified by the totalitarian of the whole situation. Which this one wasn't, it was still bad. It's still a bad call and I'm still calling us to do something about it. But in order for us to do about it, we got to look at the truth and this truth doesn't But always pretty, it's still a bad call, and I'm still calling them us to do something about it. But in order for us to do about it, we got to look at the truth. And this truth isn't always pretty. It's kind of ugly. In fact, some of the things that happened as a result of this thing, there are some questionable activities that happened around it, trying to cover it up. And that's a whole another thing. And we need to be able to look at the truth. Even if it's ugly, we know someone planted a gun. We don't know where the gun came from. We know the gun wasn't thrown by anything claimed because we need to let our technology that we have speak for itself. And in that I'm saying, the footage that you have, your own footage that I looked at, that I come to my determination by, should speak for itself. And the ver verbites that was put over the footage by John Perez or written by John Perez shouldn't be the consideration. Let your eyes, your eyes tell you a lie if it wants a lie to you. Don't let his words persuade you. Look at the footage. There's only eight seconds that really matter. Thank you. And I know my three minutes is up, but we still should agenda. I would love to talk about some other situation, about some housing situations. But I only have three minutes. Thank you, Ms. Wiener. I do have some other situation passing out. I would like to talk about some other situation, about some housing situation. But I only have three minutes. Thank you, Mr. Donald. I do have some other situation passing. I would like to see worked on. Thank you, Mr. Deng. Thank you. Oh, and by the way, Mr. Victor, I would like to meet with you on a one-on-one. It's like a final where you're headed. It is on this whole situation. Mr. D'Adi followed by Sean Wilkosa followed by Justin Weeble followed by Randall Hanecombed and William Mangum then a re- Thank you, Mr. D'Adi. Yadi followed by Sean Wilkosa, followed by Justin Weeble, followed by Randall Haynecom, then William Mangum, then Arina Likuz, and then Jasmine M. Taj. Go ahead, Yadi. Hi. I am once again asking you to agenda his discussion about the Eaton Fire and Emergency Preparedness, February 24th, the State Fire Marshall released maps of the local responsibility area fire hazard severity zones. State government code requires the State Fire Marshall to make recommendations of fire hazard severity zones to local municipalities for their designation and adoption by ordinance.ance. Legislative response led to mandated mapping across California under California Public Resource Code 4201-4204, encompassing all state responsibility areas. Their laws include California Code of Regulations Title 14 Section 1280 and California Government Code 51175-89. As part of this process, local municipalities like the City of Pasadena are required to provide an online public comment period within 30 days of the map's release. And within 120 days, the City Council is required to adopt the ordinance approving the MAC designations. Like many other municipalities affected by the fire hazard zones who have already posted maps and open public comment, Pasadena has not yet done so. You are depriving the public and especially affected residents from discussing this very, very important matter. Moreover, discussing the significant parts of the cities that are in severe hazard zones, please I can't wait to hear more about your phenomenal job and your heroicism. Thank you. Sean Mokasa followed by Justin Weeple, followed by Randall High and Com and then William Mangum. Can I begin? Yes. Hi, everyone. My name is Sean McCawse. I'm a resident of Altadena. I'm also a student of the UC system at UC Riverside. I'm giving public comment to ask to agenda his divestment in particular divestment in the form of divesting from companies like Caterpillar and Boeing that are a part of the city's fire department and police department's pension portfolios. And these are companies that have been known to profit from Israel's occupation in the West Bank and genocide in Gaza. This discussion is particularly urgent, considering Israel's complete abandonment of the ceasefire agreement three weeks ago. And Israel has been documented countless war crimes in last year alone. For example, the Israeli occupation force was recorded in horrendous footage, killing 15 Palestinian medics in the pre-dawn hours of the morning of March 23rd. And it is a war crime to kill medics in a time of war even. Such war crimes are indicative of genocide, which legally warrants an arms embargo by international law, say. It's in our, I think, global interest to divest from Israel, because Israel just doesn't deserve our money. And the people of Palestine, like the people of all people of the world, don't deserve genocide or occupation. And resisting a state that acts as though that they, that their power transcends international law. It's a fight that's going to take decades and multiple axes and multiple people, which is why even any form of divestment is useful for stopping the genocide. I think it's also an urgent national interest as well to discuss divestment because what is happening to students that have taken a stance against genocide within the past year, students like Mahmoud Khalil and others are being arrested for exercising their free speech rights. And it has said that rights, if you don't exercise them, then what good are they? You have to be able to exercise your rights. So your time is up, thank you. Thank you. Justin Weeble, followed by Randall Hayne, come, followed by William Mangum. If you hear a name, please come to the front of the room and form a line. Sorry, Justin. Good evening. Can you hear me? Yes, come in. Good evening, Mayor and City Council. I'm a resident of Pasadena, and I'm here to urge you to divest from Boeing, Chevron, and Caterpillar. Companies involved in the genocide in Gaza. Amnesty International reports that 15 aid workers were recently killed in a targeted attack by Israeli forces. According to the UN, a total of about 400 aid workers have been killed in Israeli attacks in Gaza. This occurs even though aid groups provide their coordinates to Israel through its deconfliction system, as they are instructed to do by Israel. It even appears that Israel has used that system to target aid groups. In one case, according to the New York Times, the home of an aid worker, Musa Shawa, who worked for the American aid group, Anira, was targeted with a surgical strike to his home, killing him and his family. He had informed Israel of his home address and location through Israel's defliction system. This is the same system that World Central Kitchen used to communicate the coordinates of its convoy when Israel bombed it. World Central Kitchen provided food here in Pasadena and Altadena after the fires. Another of their volunteers was killed just last week. In another case reported by the New York Times, a shelter operated by the International Rescue Committee based in the U.S. was bombed even though its coordinates were also given to Israel via its deconfliction system. And there were text messages going back and forth between aid staff and the IDF confirming that the shelter was safe. The aid group also used diplomatic channels to assure their safety, and it was located in a neighborhood that Israel said was a humanitarian zone safe for civilians. Thank you. Thank you. Randall Heine, come, followed by William Mangum. Thank you very much. Randall Heine Lamb, 29-year Pasadena Homeowner and Taxpayer. I attend all Saints Church, where I'm co-chair of an educational and justice advocacy ministry, focused on Palestine, the birthplace of Jesus. The Pasadena Police and Fireman's Retirement Fund has investments in several companies that are, in my opinion, partners in the war crimes that the State of Israel is committing in Gaza, in the West Bank areas of Palestine, and in neighboring countries like Lebanon and Syria. One of those companies is Boeing, which collaborates with Lockheed Marketing to Manufacture that it are 9x missile, a modified Hellfire AGM-114 missile, a family of air-guided, surface-guided munitions. I single out this weapon sometimes known as the Reaper from among the many bombs, missiles, and airplanes made by Boeing as particularly gruesome because of the six extendable blades that open as the missile nears its target. These blades are designed to cut through concrete and armor so you can imagine what happens when it encounters soft, warm, human flesh. My question to this council is whether you believe that this type of weapon is worthy of our investments. And if you agree with me that it is not, then I ask you to agenda as a resolution to divest the fund from Boeing and the other companies that will be mentioned as well at the earliest possible convenience. Thank you for your time. William Mangum, followed by Marina, and I'm not good with the last name LeCouche, then Jasmine M. Taj, then Alex Villoria, when it. Mr. Mayor and Vice Mayor Jessica Reves. It's nice to be here again. I was here two last two meetings. I spoke about the Welfare conditions in the City of Pasadena and requested an investigation of the fire department. I'm here today to bring you some additional information in that regard. And Mr. Mayor, I request an extra minute, three minutes, because of one of the most serious issues that has occurred in the history of this city of Pasadena that is wildfires that burn That burn more homes than ever for an assist tree. And the information I want to present to you tonight is quite simple. There was an inadequate or low water pressure. I personally myself, so my house burned down, turned on my sprinklers for my roof sprinklers, very poor water pressure. I reported a fire and the engine showed up almost one hour after the report was made through 9-1-1 and there are records for that information. Genoa, that is not acceptable fire protection. Secondly, in regard to response time, the fire engine that showed up at the designated point of Hastings Ranch Drive and Courage House sat there for 15 minutes and not a single firm had gone out of his engine. Is that acceptable for you? Third, fire engines that finally arrived reported that they were delayed and getting out of the cab because of a command and control system where they couldn't do any firefighting until they had a control word from their control center. Therefore, 15 minutes was lost in the fighting of that fire. And that fire happened to be in my house for in regard to the problem of radio command and control. The idea of doing a fire prevention effort is to get to that point of fire protection and fight it as fast as possible. an hour and 15 minutes is not acceptable. Fifth, one fire engine for the community of Upper Hastings Ranch for over two hours. One of your primary community areas principally very poorly protected. And I urge you to think about these kind of points as you consider investigation that if I understand correctly, your mayor has said would be in progress. Thank you. We did grant you extra time. Yes, and are we moving on that investigation? Sir, there will be, in every situation like this, there's an after-action report that the staff conducts. That's not the question I asked mayor. Oh, that's the answer. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. Marina? Sorry for mispronouncing your last name. That's okay. it has too many vowels in it. My name is Marina Lakosh. I'm a Pasadena resident and I'm a graduate researcher at the California Institute of Technology. I'm here today to urge that the council add the following item to your next agenda to withdraw investment of city funds in the three companies mentioned beforehand that are profiting off of the systematic destruction of Palestine. Those companies being Boeing, caterpillar and Chevron. Since Israel broke the cease fire on March 18th, Gaza has seen some of the most deadly attacks on civilians to date. To give a tiny glimpse into the magnitude of devastation, the UN RWA reported that over a hundred children and Gaza have been killed or injured each day since the ceasefire was initially broken. So while these events, they feel very far from us here in Pasadena, the companies that materially support and profit from genocide in Palestine are familiar faces to us. So Boeing, for example, produces the bombs that have been repeatedly used to target refugee camps, a series of unlawful attacks on civilians that constitute war crimes. Caterpillar provides armored bulldozers for the Israeli Army to destroy Palestinian homes and their crucial infrastructure, including their water supply. And that includes the bulldozer that killed American protester Rachel Cory as she sought to protect a Palestinian home. Chevron, in addition, is a major supply of energy to Israel, feeling their prisons, their armies, and their illegal settlements as well. So where we choose to put our money is a city matters. Our continued financial support for these companies, both condones and normalizes the actions happening in Gaza. Diversment is not only a material economic consequence for companies who profit from apartheid and war, but also a symbolic gesture of what we stand for as a community here. Bacidine City Council is well aware of the power of divestment as in 1988. They made the commendable decision to divest from South Africa. I respectfully urge this council to strongly consider divestment once again and continue this legacy of standing up against apartheid for what is right. Thank you so much. Jasmine M Taj and then Alex Villoria Winett. Welcome. Hi, council. standing up against apartheid for what is right. Thank you so much. Jasmine M. Taj and then Alex Villoria Winnett. Welcome. Hi councilmembers. My name is Jasmine. I'm a PhD candidate at Caltech and a resident of Pasadena. I'm also asking that a reconsideration of city investments in Boeing, Caterpillar and Chevron be added to the agenda of the next city council meeting. For well over a year, Israel has been carrying out the systematic expulsion and execution of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. Increasing calls for an end to the genocide from around the world and actions taken by the International Court of Justice, ordering an end to the apartheid in Palestine, have not been enough to cause material change to the conditions the citizens of Palestine face every day. We've seen consistently before, during, and after the so-called ceasefire that the Israeli government acts with impunity that no matter what crimes they commit nor who witnesses them, they are above retribution. It is clear that the only way to truly aid the Palestinian people is to disrupt the flow of materials that make the relentless bombings of homes, refugee camps, hospitals, and press outposts possible. We have the power to do this by joining the growing list of cities across the U.S., including Richmond and Hayward in California, in ending our investments in companies that profit from the atrocities being committed by the Israeli government. Specifically, as mentioned right before me, Boeing manufactufactures, the bombs dropped each day on the Palestinian people. Caterpillar manufacturers, the bulldozers that level Palestinian homes. And Chevron owns and operates offshore oil pipelines on the Gaza and Shoreline that provide energy to Israel. I commend you for adopting a ceasefire resolution last year and ask that you reaffirm your commitment to that resolution by agendizing the right of the reconsideration of city investments in Boeing caterpillar and jevron. Thank you Alex Veloria, when it Hello, dear esteemed council. I'm a physician scientist in training and a researcher at Caltech here in Pasadena. I'm speaking today in support of adding to the next meeting agenda a reconsideration of investments in Boeing, Caterpillar and Chevron. These companies are abetting and directly profiting off asymmetrical destruction in death in Palestine. Palestinian hospitals, Palestinian homes, Palestinian families, and Palestinian children. Clinicians and public health practitioners like myself recognize this. For example, a study in Plas Global Public Health, a prestigious open access journal, analyzed satellite data bomb craters to evaluate the claim that Israel was targeting Palestinian hospitals or whether they were collateral damage as Israel claimed. The study found that one third of all craters in Gaza were within 800 meters of a Palestinian in hospital. Thirty of 36 Palestinian hospitals had craters within 800 meters. Compared to the total area of Gaza, bomb craters were disproportionately located close or directly on Palestinian hospitals. These results suggest targeting of civilian Palestinian hospitals by Israel. This is an internationally recognized human rights violation. Numerous US medical societies have formally recognized this, but that's of little importance to companies solely seeking large sales and huge profits. What we do now, whether we seriously reconsider, continued investment in companies which profit off of morally reprehensible acts acts will have tangible impacts on the world today and the world that we leave to our children. When your predecessors on city council reconsidered support for companies profiting off of apartheid in South Africa, they changed the course of history. They changed the conditions for millions of oppressed people. Please add to your next meeting agenda a discussion on reconsideration for the city's investments in Boeing, Caterpillar and Chevron. Thank you. That completes public comment on matters not on the agenda. Thank you. And Mr. Maighen, the city manager tells me that the report from the fire department is coming to public safety on April 16th, so welcome from that with you. and that's related to the fire. Council member Cole, thank you, sir. Mr. Cole? We've had several weeks now of folks asking us to reexamine our investment policy, our investment policy, is something that the whole council adopts. May I suggest that we agenda this for a discussion at the finance committee? I think that's probably the best way to air this concern and address it. I just want to be careful that the city's investment policy is different from the police and fire pension fund who has the fiduciary responsibility, sole responsibility to best. So they're funds. And I was going to bring this up because of the amount of public comment as it relates to it. Where would these individuals go to a board meeting of the, because there's a board for that as well, because there's opportunity for them to have the same discussion at that board, and they have direct control over where they invest. So, is there a thing for the police and fire? Mr. Lion. Mr. Lion is our representative. He was very eager to take on that challenge. There are meetings of the third Wednesday of every month. Thank you, that's what I was looking for. At 10-15 here in the council chamber. Okay. Okay. Next, we'll move on to the consent calendar. And I intend to consistent with my practice because I own rental property in the city of Pasadena. I intend to recuse myself on item four so I will entertain a motion for the remainder of the consent calendar. We do have a public comment card on item two. And I'd like to request to pull item one. Okay, so let's start with. Mayor, I'll move the rest. Okay. So the remainder of the consent calendar is three and five, I believe. Three and five. So the remainder of the consent calendar. 3 and 5 I believe. 3 and 5. 3 and 5. So it was moved by Mr. Moussouda. I really try. I'm Mr. Lyon. Okay. So there's a motion. Is there a second? Yes, there is. To approve items three and five. Any objections? Seeing none, those matters are approved. Mr. Lien, item one. So item one is a motion to approve the rescinding of the term limits for the Burbank, Glendale Pasadena Regional Housing Trust. And just as philosophically as a matter of my own principle, I believe in rotated leadership, and I think we limit power. So I'm not for the motion, but so I just wanted to have the vote on it separately. And Ms.vis is our representative for the board. You know, frankly, that's such a specialized appointment and the need to have consistency there is so important. I was the city's representative for the first two years and now I fast Miss Revis to take on that role. Miss Reva's, but I do support not having term limits just because it's, these are the projects, the grants that are applied for sometimes take two years. And so I support the proposal. Yeah, thank you Mayor and I attended that meeting on your behalf where we have this discussion and you guys know me. I'm all for term limits. I love the charge for term limits here in Pasadena. Our discussion was essentially what the mayor was alluding to. That's a very unique body. The joint powers authority that underlying terms of the members now as a past city and city council member, one of the other cities can't recall, which their term limited themselves, and ultimately we thought it made the most sense for each city to be able to decide who was serving in that role and made sense with all the other assignments that those cities have to fill. So that was the lodge behind it. And so I appreciate your perspective as well. But that was the reasoning. Okay. So is that a motion to move? Yes, so moving. Second, move item one. For motion the second. Mr. Lion, did you want to be recorded as a NOVO? Yeah? Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Okay, any others? So the matter is approved. And next we'll take a question on item two. Oh, public comment. Public comment and I agree with you. Public comment, I'm item two. And that's Nina Chomsky. Mr. Chomsky, welcome. Nina, go ahead. I'll bring up. I'll bring up. comment. I'll look at the comment and I'll do. I'll look at the comment and I'll do. I'll look at the comment and I'll do. I'll look at the comment and I'll do. I'll look at the comment and I'll do. I'll look at the comment and I'll do. I'll look at the comment and I'll do. I'll look at the comment and I'll do. I'll look at the comment and I'll do. 30 seconds left. Go ahead. Okay. Thank you. I am very interested in this topic because in addition to the urban forest, I always support and want to support historic preservation. And I can't remember when the redo or the renovation of the first floor of the Hale building was discussed publicly. I do remember the second floor renovation. And I'm very concerned because the staff report doesn't really commit the city to maintaining and renovating the first floor lobby. That's the historic part of the first floor. Renovating it in an historically good manner, particularly maintaining the ceiling, which is historic and beautiful. And the other parts of the lobby, and it was designed with the current desk when you come in and the other windows and the use of wood features to reflect the historic character of the lobby. So could someone just confirm that this CIP project for the first floor renovation will respect and maintain the historic character of the first floor lobby of the Permit Center and particularly the ceiling which is so historic thank you. That complete the public comment on that item. Okay. And we can provide an answer to Mr. Chomsky. Mr. Cool. Yeah, I have a question as well. I'm looking at the proposed capital plan for FY 26 and it says that phase one is completed. Another million, one million two is needed in future years, which has not yet been appropriated. And it says construction will continue in fiscal year 2026, which is not yet commenced. And so I'm kind of wondering how we authorize these expenditures. Clearly, this is a project that's part of the capital plan, but why are we doing this this year? It doesn't appear to be clear from the capital, overall capital plan, which we adopted. So I'm just interested in kind of the paperwork of how we got here. I can answer that question for you, Council Member Cole. Hayden Melbourne, acting assistant city engineer for the record. In mid-year FY24, $1.4 million in building services fund was appropriate to the project. So it does not show up on the current project sheet for FY 25 So that is where the money is coming from This project the planning department's been very patient. We originally bid the project this last year Actually on May 2nd, 2024 So they've been patiently waiting for these upgrades and staff is desperately in need of them. Yeah, I get that and I support the goals that are outlined in the report because ultimately the beneficiaries of this in addition to our staff will be the public and the users of the Permit Center. It would be helpful to have that kind of information in the staff report. Again, just the trail of how we got here would be helpful to know. Because everything is compared to something else, right? We have $2 billion worth of capital needs and we have to prioritize them. And when we adopt a whole plan, I think it's important that we have an understanding of what the priority of the expenditures will be. For a future reference. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Is there a motion on the Senate? Move, move. Cole, seconded by Mr. Lion. I think. Are there any objections? Seeing none, matters approved. Mr. Messider, did you want, were you voting yes, Mr. Messider on that or no? Or are you still out. On the item two, for the hail building. I supported. Okay, thank you. So, let's unanimously approve with all council present. Okay, now I, yes, we'll step out for item four and ask this Revis to handle that matter. Thank you mayor. Any questions or do we have a motion? Any discussion? It essentially memorializes or formalizes our process that we've been refining over the two appointment processes now and so I think it does a good job of formalizing those and so we can move forward with those clearly in the future. I'll move the item. I think we had one. I'm sorry. It's like I did by Mr. Madison. Any objections? Seeing none? That item passes. Thank you. Okay. Next, we're onto the public hearing for the quasi judicial matter for the Maxwell House. Thank you. Mayor, I previously served as the general counsel for the Western Justice Center and in that capacity may have acquired knowledge that arguably relates to this matter. So out of an abundance of caution, I will recuse myself from participating. Thank you. So I'm, it's cool. And as this is a quasi-judicial matter in which one is supposed to have an open mind as a participant in the Board of Zoning Appeals decision, which is being appealed here, it'd be difficult for me to argue that I'm objective, Although I certainly strove to be objective in reaching a decision at that level. So I'm recusing myself. Thank you both. Okay, this matter has been before us previously. So this is the public hearing is now reopen. We all read it previously reported out the noticing. Just to report out the correspondence and recapping the city clerk's office received 16 letters in support of the Western Justice Center's application. This is from previous public hearings, three letters in opposition, one letter providing a status update on the Western Justice Center's CUP and one letter providing information on the Maxwell House. And then for this meeting, the April 7th meeting, the City Clerk's Office received one letter in opposition to the conditional use paramedt and providing comments on the matter. All the correspondence from prior meetings and for this evening have been posted online, distributed to the council and as part of the record for this matter. Thank you, Mr. City Manager. Thank you, Mayor. Director of community planning and community development in the Jennifer Page can give a quick summary of what's changed since we last met. Thank you Miguel. This is the third meeting we've had on this item. Maybe third time is the term. We'll see if we can get through this tonight. Since the last time that we met the council wanted to give some time to have some separate discussions related to the lease agreement. We're separating the lease matters from the land use entitlement so that's separate from this and to also see if we could get some additional detail on the past events that had occurred at the site and the applicant did not have that information ready for us to put into the packet but I am told that they may have some additional information that they can share with the council tonight so they are are here and available to do that. We do know at a staff level that we issued two TUPs for weddings. So we have a two-year history when the city was regulating the weddings at the site and we know that one year they were approved for up to 66 weddings. It looked like they had about 49. And then the other year the second year as it was winding down getting ready to go to the CUP hearing they had 28. So we have, we know exactly what type of activity was happening for the past two years. It was all weddings, we know the size of the weddings and the dates that those were occurring. So we did have that information, we just didn't have information on the past events before that. So with that staff's available to answer any questions at the council. Could you just show us in the staff report where those numbers appear that you just mentioned? So they're not in the staff report because they're related to the temporary use permits. So we discussed those at some of the past two hearings that we had when we talked about the TUPs that were issued. So I'm just reminding the council of what we talked about under the TUPs. And then the CUP, we have the chart that had the list of events that had the average of 47 events. So that I think that's the place, right? Yeah. Because for two of those years you're telling us you have the information. Right. So can you just refer to that and? I'll pull that up. Well, we don't have it in the staff report because it's separate in apart from that table. but you do in a sense that H2 of 3 of the staff report lists the number of events for each year. And I believe you're telling us that. I think so. Yeah. Yes. So you're speaking about the cover memo. Yes. Yes. H2 of the cover memo. Yeah. So for the year 2022 and 2023, we have some detail of those because those were issued under the temporary use permits. So we have the types of events which were all weddings and we know they're both teak weddings which are up to 50 attendees or traditional weddings that had the higher attendance. And so we have a schedule of those and we know that they were all weddings. So we have information for those last two but we don't have any information for the years 2014 to 2021 But the applicant I here may have some additional details that they can share with the council tonight and for 2024 For 2024 there was that that was part of the TUP So the TUP's that were approved for 2023 and We approved up to 66 events it appears that they have 49 events a year. We also approved a TUP for 2024 and the TUP was approved for up to 28 events. But we don't have the number of events they held on the table for 20. So on the table that they're looking at in our cover, remember we have some detail for 2023. Yeah, but not 2024. That's okay. So, huh? But the TUPs were for 2023 and 2024. Okay, so I missed vote council member. It was 2023 and 2024 on the TUPs. That was my next question. And 2022, the 86 was. Part of the information that the applicant, I think, can share tonight, but we didn't have that. about the breakdown. Right. But there was no TUP or CPE. Correct. No TUP. Thank you. Thank you. OK. Let's hear from the applicant. So we're going to give three minutes to the applicant, three minutes to the pellant. So go ahead. Yeah, Justin Marimus on behalf of Western Justice Center for the record. So to get into sort of the questions about the event numbers, so just backtracking to the original application. So the original application, there was a number of about 132 events that were applied for and there was some miscommunication at the last hearings about what that number represented. That number was at the original time frame of us applying for the CUP. There was an idea that we had to sort of say, all events, every event that was going to be taking place that would be covered from here until forever under the CUP. We then subsequently understood and revised that number to be the 47 number that's being referenced as the average of overall life cycle events that we're taking place between the dates that you're seeing on your screen right now. West Justice Center over the last month has sort of dug into their records going back to 2013 and trying to piecemeal together exactly where these numbers came from, the exact type of events that they are connected to. So the average of 47 over the course of an annual year between that time period represents events at our weddings, but also events that generally would be utilizing the back patio and making noise, which would be the concern of the appellance. From what we can tell, I think average number of weddings through that time period is just over 30. So there would have been from that 2013 date to 2024 an average of 30 weddings. And obviously the request now before you is for 21 weddings. I will note that if we go all the way back sort of the time period of 2013 to 2015 around the times I think a lot of the appellants were moving into their current locations, that number it was about in the high 20 so a little bit lower than the 30 number. I will also just sort of state the time remaining that we obviously submitted subsequent to our last conversation at temporary use permit to work in parallel to these least negotiations. I know that staff is currently working on that and that Western Justice Center is just waiting for further city direction on any communications on the lease. The lease, anything you want to add? Okay, thank you. Thank you, sir. Mr. McDonald from the appellant. Thank you, Mayor Gowardo, members of the City Council. Let me begin by simply saying some of the numbers I think you have are inaccurate. And as Mr. Davis submitted his letter earlier today, we have grave concerns about the information that is being given to you. Personally, I believe that's always a problem in every organization, regardless of whether it's government, big business, big unions, whatever information flow tends to be difficult. But let me give you if I could. A letter that Western Justice Center circulated. in early 2024 that tells all the neighbors that there were 58 weddings that took place in 2022 and 46 weddings in 2023, which is different than the numbers they're giving you now and or that are in the chart. I also have serious doubts about the fact that during the middle of COVID there would have been 72 weddings in 2001 since the governor didn't lift his emergency orders until June 15, 2021. Be that as it may, it's irrelevant. From our perspective, we've put before you why this isn't the commercialization of this historic facility is not permitted under the lease, it's not permitted under the zoning code and it's simply not a permissible use. We've explained that in our letters of February 10th, and in our letters of March 3rd, we've provided you with plenty of exhibits that show the commercialization and violation of the lease and in violation of the zoning code. We've explained how the slights of hand in trying to interpret the zoning code or inconsistent with the various definitions in it. I'm not sure there's much else I can do. But with that, I'm happy to answer any questions and then we have a couple of the people Anita and Peggy that want to speak and Carl that want to speak directly to you as well. Thank you Mr. McDonald. I don't know if you remember the background. If you'd like to identify yourself. I'm sorry, I'm a needy action. I'm one of the appellants. The background on this is why are we here? Because in July of 2022, one of the wedding guests at the Western Justice Center was so drunk that he ran into two parked cars on Green Street at 7pm while it was still light outside. We're very lucky that no one in the neighborhood was killed or seriously injured. And we are a residential neighborhood and they are in a residential neighborhood. So this just is another example of the lack of care and consideration and the failure to follow the conditions and putting the neighborhood in danger. This whole process has been as lack transparency, accountability and due diligence. The numbers, we've asked the Western Justice Center to provide us with the numbers to find, say they need the money in order to manage the W Western Justice Center campus From and they've refused to give us those numbers when they've given numbers to the public the numbers keep changing They say that the expenses to manage the campus or originally they said three to four hundred thousand now They're saying four to 500,000. They have an attachment in one of their documents to say they spent $405,000 over six years for specific projects. That's $68,000 a year. And then they have a little asterisk and they say, oh, but we spent millions of dollars on the campus. Well, for what period of time? that back to 1989 when they first got the campus? They've been very cagey about what the numbers are. What's their income? They have a significant amount of income. They get $250,000 from their 29 profits. They get free rent on the Maxwell House. That's equivalent to like $350,000 a year. They get free parking for approximately 37 parking spaces. That's $40,000 to $50,000 a year. They get grant income and other vendor donations to offset expenses. They have an annual gala with over $700,000 of income. And they get over $50,000 in nonprofit event rentals. That's a lot of money. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Peggy West followed by Carl J. West. Those are the last two public comment cards we received for this item. This West welcome. Thank you. My name is Peggy West. I live at 51 South Grand Avenue, which is located behind the Maxwell House. I'm one of the residents opposed to the Western Justice Center's attempt to obtain a conditional use permit from the city. This is our third appearance in front of the city council. We also attended a meeting with the Board of Zoning Appeals. At each of these meetings, the issue of Western Justice Center's noncompliance with the terms of its lease agreement with the city was discussed. Western Justice Center is simply not allowed to have for-profit events under the terms of its lease agreement. And it's not allowed under the zoning code. Western Justice Center is not a club, a lodge, or a public meeting hall, period. They know it, we know it, and the city knows it. At each of the city council meetings we've attended, Western Justice Center corrals numerous neighbors who are not directly impacted by the weddings and others to speak on their behalf about how valuable their nonprofit work is. At no time has anyone ever disputed that. In fact, each of us appellants has made significant donation to Western Justice over the years. What we the appellants do object to is Western justice centers continued blatant disregard for the terms of its lease agreement with the city. Western justice center has been duplicitous and disingenuous throughout this entire process. Their egregious and continued violation of the lease agreement has had a negative impact on those of us who live directly behind the Maxwell House and has disrupted our quality of life. This is now the fourth time we are before the city. Four profit events are not allowed under Western Justice Center's lease agreement with you. It's time to do the right thing and deny a conditional use permit to a nonprofit organization that has been and continues to be in direct violation of the lease agreement it entered into with you the city. Thank you. Carl J. West. Mr. West, welcome. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, my name is Carl West. I live at 51 South Grant with my wife Peggy. I'm not going to belabor this, but you can't put a round peg in a square hole. And the bottom line is the deal that was struck with the federal government when the city acquired the property, the lease that the Western Justice Center had entered into, and the zoning code do not permit this. A staff persists in recommending approval of the TUP's, the third one now pending, the CUP, it just isn't permitted. I think Mr. Madison recognized that at the last meeting when he commented on the lease. You cannot put around Pagan a square hole. They are not entitled, they are not all odds. I'm not gonna repeat what my wife said, but it just isn't there. And we respect what they do. We believe in what they do. They are a wonderful organization. They get free rent basically $100 a year for three buildings that they collect $260,000 a year, $200 plus $1,000 a year on rent. They live rent free. They raise money. They made the deal that they would maintain this campus. They would rehab those buildings and they did and it's to their credit. it, but they're not allowed to have for-profit activity. And no matter how much sophistry or moving things around, having a wedding business with a dedicated wedding website that says we are here for you is a for-profit activity. And so I implore the council to just use your common sense. This is not what's permitted. We all care about the Western Justice Center, but they can't do it. Thank you. Thank you. That completes public comment on this item. Okay. Questions, comments? Mr. Madison's version of the queue. Thank you, Mayor. I had one question and then some comments and I can proceed however you'd like. Some of the underlying documentation references the number of disputes resolved annually by the Justice Center and it sites the number 450. I wonder if we have in the record any information about what the current number would be if there is. Staff does not. I'm looking to the applicant to see if they have anything related to that. And just to put a finer point on, I'm referring to page two of exhibit B to the lease. And it refers to the Community Dispute Resolution Center is used to resolve over 450 conflicts per year. Is that still extent? Is that? Pardon? Still extent is that pardon? Go ahead. Just marimus for the record. Council member Massena, are you referencing a number of general disputes that the Western Justice Center resolves in a year or not specific to? I don't know. I would have to see that. I don't have the language in front of me. Yeah, just says the community dispute resolution center is that a Western Justice Center program? Alisa, do you? I'm not familiar. So is this referencing a program that was in existence at a certain period of time? It's in the reuse plan. Back in the day. And from what year is that, I'm sorry, I don't have that document before me. Well, it's an amendment to the lease and the lease was executed. It looks like in 1989. But I would think you would know if there's a program called the Community dispute resolution sentence. Yeah. It's two different B to the lease. So I can't speak to whatever programs were in existence at that time. Currently the focus of our conflict resolution education work is in K through 12 education. And does that involve actually resolving disputes? We train students to resolve disputes between students. And then we also work with school districts on something called multi-tiered systems and supports, which are levels of behavioral intervention designed to provide alternatives to suspension and expulsion. Okay, thank you. That was my question, Mayor. You want me to move to my comments? Please. Yeah, so I really do, First of all, I echo the comments about the Western Justice Center. I'm so proud that it's in Pasadena. It's such an important organization in our community. And I too would pledge my personal support to the mission and the organization. But I really struggle to the point of not being able to agree with the findings that it can operate as a wedding venue. And I want to just state sort of my views on that for the record. I think that the touchstone is the lease. I know the staff indicates in the report of the cover memo that we're not to talk about the lease in terms of amendments or what have you, but the lease is a critical document. And of course, there's nothing about operation as a venue. There's no reference to obtaining a conditional use permit which would be required if one were to operate as a venue to the contrary what the use provisions of the lease at section 5.1 on page 4 over page 5 talks specifically and only about operating nonprofit law-related functions. And it ticks off four different examples. There's a further sentence that says that tenant is expressly prohibited from leasing the premises or any portion there of to lawyers offering legal services for profit or using the disjunctive there or allowing the premises or any portion thereof to be used for any for profit activities period. The argument is made that the final sentence in that paragraph and there's another provision right after that one I should mention that talks about the tenant shall continuously during the term of the lease following completion of all tenant improvements as here in define use the premises for these purposes referring to the purposes that are explained above during ordinary business hours. So there's no doubt that during ordinary business hours, this use under this lease is limited to the nonprofit law-related functions that are set forth in the lease. There is a sentence at the end of that paragraph that says nothing herein precludes talent from using the premises for community meetings and other purposes during non-business hours. And I can't find in good conscience that that would open the door for extensive use during non-business hours for profit generating functions for the kinds of functions that weddings and other events would involve. My interpretation of that is it makes clear that during non-business hours community meetings the one example that's been given, can be held and other purposes, one could imagine board meetings, or even perhaps a fundraiser for the organization. I would think would be fully appropriate, but not to make it an event venue, basically. And again, there's not one jot of ink in the lease that would support the use of the facility extensively as an event venue. In the plan of public use for surplus property by the federal government, which is exhibit B to the lease. And I believe that's a city document but it's pursuant to the requirements of the federal government for surplusing property like this. You know, again, there's an extensive discussion of the overall campus, which includes the NYC Court of Appeals. And there is not a single reference to use as an event venue. But there is a lot that's said about the location. And I'll just quote here from a paragraph that's not numbered at the bottom the first page of exhibit be benefits to the city of Pasadena The proposed site of the Western Justice Center is a site of important historic and architectural significance within a stable residential neighborhood of Low and medium density the neighborhood is a compatible mix of large homes on spacious lots, condominiums, and institutional uses, including the Court of Appeals building. The center will be a welcome addition to this neighborhood and would be associated with the city's long tradition of harmoniously joining fine institutions with neighborhoods of architectural and environmental sensitivity. It goes on their other references to the neighborhood and the like. And I, at a prior hearing, I asked whether we would or have ever allowed a home in a residential neighborhood to have dozens and dozens of weddings or events like that. And the answer was in the negative. We have not and we never would. And there was some statements that, well, we don't really need to pay attention to the plan for surplus property, but it's expressly incorporated into the lease itself. That's why it's an exhibit. And I believe we do need to be faithful to that. Importantly, what the documents together describe is a situation where the Western Justice Center is providing tremendous benefit to the city through their programmatic activities and more perhaps to the point here now today by restoring and maintaining the Maxwell House, a architectural and historic gem in our city. And I really fear that what the recommendation would do is kind of take the easy way out and say, well, you know, it hasn't perhaps worked out the way that we hoped in terms of sublaces or the revenue that could be generated from nonprofit law-related activities. And so what we should do is just sort of look the other way and allow the site to change into an event venue to generate the revenues that are necessary. And I, just as much as I support the Western Justice Center and want to continue to realize those huge benefits to the city, we can't do that in a way that's not clear-eyed and faithful to the documents that created this relationship in the first place. There was a statement about the deed when the property was later conveyed, somehow, you know, officiating, everything I've just said, but the deed actually does contain a provision that says all covenants, whether recorded or not, that were previously provided, survive the transfer of title and shall continue in full force in effect. So we turn them to like this information about the events and, you know, it's just extremely disappointing. And I I knew Judge Charlin I have tremendous respect for her and I'm frankly just you know it was just a big mess I think on the part of the Justice Center to begin to do you know numerous events as an event venue to the point where, you know, 67, 76, 72, 86, just dozens and dozens. And I think as one of the speakers testified, you know, this is operating the business of an event venue. There's a website that we looked at at one of the prior hearings. We've got all the vendors. Here's the site. Here's the photographs and all. And again, I get it as a way of closing a revenue gap, but I find no support in the lease or the plan for that type of use. I would also say that there's absolutely no way you could do that many events in that way. The marketing, the promotion, the tours, the many, many meetings that one does with the couples and the families, with the wedding planners. There's no way you could do this level of intense use as an event venue without spending a significant amount of time during business hours. So even if you were convinced that that sentence at the end of Section 5.1 meant that Katie Bar the door, you can do whatever you want-business hours. This still doesn't work because for these kinds of numbers and for the recommendation, you'd have to spend significant amounts of time on during business hours to be able to pull that off. And that's in direct contravention of the language of the lease. And again, we have to be without fear nor favor for anyone when it comes to the cold hard facts of what the documents say and what our own code says. I mean, this great organization somehow got itself into a situation where, for years, it was conducting hundreds of unlawful events, events that were not permitted by our code. And, you know, if not unlawful, because that sounds pejorative or judge metal, and that's not my intent. My intent is to simply recognize that these were not compliant with Pasadena's municipal code. And I know that we try to help residents and applicants when they find themselves in a situation, whether it's a minor addition to their home or a fence that may be a couple feet too high or something. We try to help them correct that and have a non-conforming use finding or issue a variance after the factor would have you. But it's really disappointing, like I said, that an organization dedicated to the rule of law and to ensuring equal justice for all would commit hundreds of pretty obvious code violations by having these events. And I think it's appropriate for us in this capacity to consider that as we consider the way forward. And I know that it seems as though there are only a few neighbors that are drastically affected, but for me that doesn't change the analysis. There are homes that are directly proximate to the area where these events have been occurring and we've done absolutely nothing. Nobody has as near as I can tell to make a man's for that. And they would continue to be really proximate to those homes. And again, the source documents all recognize that. So I won't be able to support the staff's findings, but I want to again encourage the staff to Roll up their sleeves and look at a wave whether it's through amendment of the lease or Direct subsidy we subsidize other nonprofits in this city You know, we pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for interior landscaping at the Norton Simon Museum, which is really just the beneficiaries of that really are the members and other patrons of the museum. And I'm not here asking that we walk that back. All I'm saying is here's a great organization that has 20 sub-tenants who are nonprofits who are providing great service to our community. And in so doing, they're able to maintain this gen that's on the ninth circuit Court of Appeals campus, if you will. This council should find a way to work with the Justice Center to amend the lease and even if we need to subsidize some portion of the shortfall, I think we were talking about, the testimony was $180,000. Is the total amount that roughly would be raised by these weddings? And in that way, we can remain true to the reuse plan to the original intent of the lease, and most importantly, to the neighborhood, to the residential neighborhood, and to the real purposes of the transaction in inception. And again, I want to finish where I started that I personally will support that and do everything I can to help. But I think it's respectfully, it would be an error to look the other way and dishonor the original source documents and the neighbors in this way. Thank you, Mayor. Mr. Rosuda. Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, Mr. Madison, for that. Your presentation of what you feel. I look at this differently, Mayor, and I support the Western Justice Center, and I support them strongly after the Bose of decision. And our planning staff continues to recommend that we support the Western Justice Center, the CUP number 714, subject to findings in attachment A, and recommended conditions of approval of attachment B, which is reducing the amount of hours from 3 to 2. And it says it plainly. And staff did modify condition 19 to reduce the maximum permitted time. The outdoor patio can be used from, used two hours from three hours. So when this, when I got this council packet, that's the first thing I went to and I wanted to see if there were many changes from staff, mayor, and they continue to recommend the support of the Maxwell House. So I do as well. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Hampton. Thank you, and thank you everybody for the presentations today. I know this is the third time that this has been seen. Yeah I have very mixed reviews and feelings of this in general because it is a single family residential neighborhood and there are commercial uses being done within this single family residential neighborhood. So I have a couple of questions since the changes. It's because it seems like the Western dresses sitter has found out that they were doing things that they were not supposed to be doing at least. And they are now coming to us to rectify that and make that change and say, you know, we realize that we're doing something that we weren't supposed to be doing. City Council, we've been doing this. Now we want to cutify this in some sort of agreement and legalize the actions that we've, and we're using the funds to benefit a city facility. I mean, it's just as what it is out of all the nonprofits that we lease to, I would say, going to the Maxwell House and any other besides, besides, I guess the term arose at home. Those are probably the two most well-up-kept properties that we own that we are leasing to a nonprofit. And so I just thought about all the nonprofits that we released to at one point, the Armory, you know, the Campbell House, Northern Simon, as mentioned. And I wonder if in their release agreements, it had same language because we typically do this thing, we're not we, but the city typically does this thing. It's just like copy and paste. So somebody got that agreement. We're going to copy and paste this agreement. And so, have we looked at the sea of all of these organizations that we lease to are doing things that they're potentially are not supposed to be doing? That's just, I know that's not what's on the table right now, but after this discussion, I hope that we're really looking into this because I don't want to treat a one organization differently than the next organization. I think that, you know, for at least seeing something from us, it should be fair across the board. No one should get something different because, you know, they're not, it's a benefit. In a way, it benefits the community. We're also serving them and benefit by giving them facility. So have there been complaints since they have changed, made the changes that they've made as far as having all the events inside, have, as the city had complaints? We have not have complaint complaint had any complaints once we started operating under the temporary use permit with the conditions of approval and the limitations that we have placed under those we had not had any complaints. How many events have been put? I am not aware of any complaints. I asked staff if they were aware of any complaints. I am not aware of any complaints. I'm answering that to my best of my knowledge. We're not aware of any complaints that have come to the planning department based on the TUP. And where would the one complain would they complain to the police department? So are we? They may be noise, but the police will usually the police and code enforcement work together because police are called after hours for code. So if there's an issue related to after hours at a use code will find out through the police department or we get calls through code enforcement. But we issued two TUPs to allow them to continue through the weddings that were scheduled. And from what I understand the first year it was 49. They were allowed to go up to 66 under the first TUP and they didn't fulfill all 66. The second, while they were, the second TUP, while they were working on the CUP application, they were approved for 28 weddings, which is what they were approved for under the hearing officer. And it was modified again by the, by the Board of Zoning Appeals to 21. Okay, and then the outdoor patio use is limited to two hours, but there's a cap on that time, right? It's limited to its condition 19. It can only be used from 1 to 6 p.m. For a maximum of two hours at a time. Under the staff recommendation, it was three hours prior. We reduced that to an hour based on some of the discussion that was had at the last meeting about some concerns about the amount of time on the outdoor patio. So that was when recommended change tonight was reducing that to two hours. And then the times are the same for events on Saturdays and Sunday. So I'm trying to understand how did that come up. I think at the Rolls-Bull, they have to innovate at 10 p.m. So it seems like the fact that these events can go into 11 is inconsistent with large events. So is maybe you can supply this? That's something that the council could further reduce if you wanted to, for the reduce the hours. You could, you could reduce the number of events, you could reduce the hours. You can make modifications, you can induce new conditions, this is a, a new hearing. And again, this uses an allowed by right. It requires a conditional use permit specifically for this reason, to be able to condition it based on the activity that's going on and then it's monitored and there's conditions related to four unannounced visits by code enforcement. That would be required every year. We can have a hearing at any time. We could revoke this U.P. We could call them in a modified conditions of approval. None of that was happening in the past because the use was occurring without approval. So you know, this is setting the standards that they have to abide by and there's a mechanism in place for enforcement if they don't comply with their conditions. But the conditions could be modified if you had a concern about the hours. And then the last time we had this meeting, I remember a number of 17 events was a number, I don't let me know if I'm incorrect or not. I think I asked this question before if the number of events was reduced, what was the number that it could be reduced to? And I think the number was 17. I recall at the last meeting and Justin Mayhem were to add that the appellant had introduced 18 and then gradually phasing this out over a period of time. And so we talked about whether or not perhaps they could they could live with the 18 which is that was the number that we were correct. Correct. Okay. So sir, feel just to identify yourself for the record. Sorry mayor. Justin Mariamis for the record and then Member Hampton, I think the discussion was, you know, the request is at 21. I think maybe you had brought up the 18 as well, but then the potential to sort of flip the appellants and do a ramp up as opposed to a ramp down from the 18 to get to like the 21 or whatever the appropriate number would be. And just for clarification for the record, I believe the conditions, Jennifer, you may know this. I think the event should already be capped at 10 p.m. They don't go beyond 10 p.m. It says 11 on the staff report. Everything says 11. Yeah. It says 11. That may be a distinction for cleanup, but the events themselves are over by 10. By 10. Okay. But it says cleanup could happen. Sir, sir, let, let, sir, please. Well, we'll, sir, thank you. I'll give you some time, sir. Just let us finish the. Well, if he has some follow-up to the question that I asked, I mean, he's a neighbor. Happy dad. Well ask. Well, we'll, we'll, we just want to do a, why don't you finish your, okay, that's, that's very rare. But so, 18 events, all right. So I guess I wrote them down wrong in my notes. So 18 events. And this magic number of 11 PM is not really a magic number. It wasn't a number that you came up with or staff came up with. It was just a number that said- That's what the applicant had requested. That was what was approved by the hearing officer and the board is owning a pills. And it's part of the staff recommendation, but that could be modified. And so on Sundays, if I'm at home and I have to go to work go to work or take my child to school, I definitely wouldn't want to be around an event that's going until 11 p.m. And so I'm only mentioning these things, not saying that I'm giving ideas, not saying that I've made my mind or have, but if it went from nine to eight on a Sunday, and from nine to 10 on Saturdays, and it was kept at 18 events with a potential skill up to 21. If these events are working out without complaints, or not without complaint there's going to be complaints no matter what. But without major issues, I may be persuaded that this is something that, I mean, based on not having any complaints since the new, and there was more events, how many events were there? Again, you said 40. The last TUP, we had 28 events for the last year. 20 events. Yeah, and the year prior to that, we had 49. And that was under the TUP as well? Yes. And in 40, and the year prior to that, there was no complaints as well. The year before that, there were complaints. what initiated this whole thing. Okay, 40, okay. But 28 during the 28 events, and did all 28 events occur? I believe they did. We have a schedule. Yes. And if the neighbors say that there were complaints and you didn't receive the complaints then where did the complaints go? Well, can I address that, Mr. Henry? Yeah, absolutely. My sense is that during that time period, when the TUP was issued, that these proceedings were already underway, and the neighbors were expressing their complaints in the context of their record. We had not had a CUP hearing during that time, but I do know that the Western Justice Center was talking to the neighbors, and they were part of the record, I believe that there were some complaints, the neighbors would call the Western Justice Center, the doors open and it's not supposed to be open, the music's on, so they have a log of how they were working with the neighbors throughout this time. So maybe we can get some more clarification from the Western Justice Center since they were the ones dealing with or the neighbors who were on what their conversations were. But in terms of formal complaints coming through to the city, we did not have any that I'm aware of while we were operating under the TUP. But while we were doing the TUP, we were also working on the CUP. Because it was a bridge to get us through the CUP. We've been working on the CUP application for two years. And the question was from then until now, and for sure there are things in here that are recent. Can I also just clarify, I thought it was in a traffic accident that led to the discovery of the events, not that they came forward voluntarily, and said we realized that we're not compliant. Yes. Thank you. That's how the planning department became aware of it. And then to those complaints, if the Western Joseph Center would like to respond as well as the neighbors. Or the neighbor. Yeah. In terms of the original incident, the person who came was not invited to the wedding. They crashed the event and we called the police. We tried to get the keys away from them just to clarify in that point. In terms of the complaints that have happened during the TUP process, we definitely had more complaints at the beginning of the process as we added a security guard in the front to monitor the parking and any refuse that might end up on the street, things improved with the neighbors around the neighborhood. And then toward the end of the TUP process, we actually began to implement some of the BZA conditions. So we added a second security guard in the back. We added stanchions like these to limit the space that people could walk through to go from the building to the restrooms. And as you can see from the complaint log that I submitted from the last time, we attempted to address the neighbors who would call or email us. And we would, our goal was to respond to them as quickly as we could, and also to go investigate whatever the issue was, and then address it as quickly as possible. So for example, the Davis has let us know one time, hey, there's people outside taking a photograph in the Garden patio and they're not supposed to be outside. So we went downstairs, we got the security guard involved, the incident probably took under 10 minutes. We let people know you can't take photographs out here and we asked everyone to come back inside. So we've been more and more successful as we've been implementing more and more protections for the neighbors at making sure that that Garden patio use is really only happening during the wedding ceremony and that we're working really hard to keep people quiet. The only multi-stall restrooms on the property are by the Garden patio. And people have to exit the building to go to those locations. Another change that we meant is that we made as we move the dance floor. So I think one of the issues was the dance floor was in the foyer. And there's window doors so the light was going through and it was hard to control the noise. So we moved the dance area into a side room where we could close the doors and limit the light and the noise. So we've been working hard to make those improvements over the course of implementing the terms of the TUP. Thank you. And so the only multi-bathrooms are actually to the back, even though for two hours, that's where the use is supposed to stop, right? So. So people have to go to the back to use the restroom. Is there like a limited amount of people that you let out? Yeah. So now we have a door monitor inside letting people know before they exit please be quiet and be respectful of our neighbors. And then there's a security guard outside to make sure that you know people don't take photos. None of that happens. And then we have stanchions now that limit, so it's a short walk, essentially. Come out of the building and we walk, basically, towards the moment it's in here. Can you still do that? If you can repeat what you sit into the microphone. So you might exit the building from where I stand, and then there's lovely young woman who's here in the corner would be where the entrance to the bathroom is. And then we have stanchions kind of limiting how people walk. And we have additional please be quiet and respect our neighbor's signs out in front of them. So there's multiple people asking people to be quiet. And then we're limiting, you know, just go and come back and don't spend any time outside. So I have a question. So if you've had complaints from people going back to the bathroom, you know, it's kind of hard to really tell someone to not say anything, especially if they've had a little libation or something like that, right? Have you thought about potentially requesting that your clients have a port of potty not port that sounds horrible but you know those they have the actually decent looking ones that you could drive up and they're on a they're like on a trailer and they could park and have that in the front. So I'm pretty sure the neighbors across the street would object to our having portapoddies. Not only. I'm just wondering on the side, I don't know I mean where it's not in significant view. There is a wall and a hedge between us and the neighbors. They also ask us to take down certain, shut off certain lights after the ceremony. So now it's darker. And the only lighting is for people to go to the bathroom and come back. And there are no bathrooms inside of the facility. There is a single stall restroom on the first floor. And then there's a single stall restroom on the second floor. The other two restaurants are in our offices and we generally don't allow people access to our offices during events. Okay, I mean, it's wondering how to try to keep... Why don't we allow people access to our bathrooms in our offices during events? No, no, just talk. Sorry. Thank you. OK, and now thank you so much. You're welcome. Sir, I think you did you have something to offer your, I think Mr. McDonald's your attorney, but. No, Mike has something to say. I just want to point out to point out exhibit L to our February 10th letter shows photographs of complaints that were filed in 2024. Section 7 clearly articulates how the code enforcement officers said we can't do anything about it we don't have personal knowledge of it noise can we also explain how if you look at the police website they say they specifically don't deal with noise complaints And that section seven of our February 10th letter talks about how these conditions of approval are meaningless Because they're you on the one hand you have code enforcement that says well if we don't see it We can't do anything about it and you have police that says we don't deal with neighborhood noise complaints So you end up in a situation where there is no enforcement mechanism So with that let me turn me start over the mic. Sir, you didn't submit a comment card, but to be fair, I'll allow you to identify yourself for the record and give you a. Thank you, Mr. Tim. I appreciate it because my name is Mike Davis. I submitted a letter to you folks tonight. And I don't want to be up here. Okay, I really don't. I don't like to speak in public, but I wrote you a letter. Ron Reagan said, trust would verify. And Councilman Hampton asked a great question. How many complaints and the attorney discovered it? There's no way for us to complain. We call the police, they say, we don't handle this. You call code enforcement. Well, we don't handle this. So Jennifer Page has said by approving all this, there's measures in place to check this. There's no measures in place for us. When a policeman shows up to an accident, he evaluates how the accident happened, who died, what happened. When we're in the middle of it, we respond and then what? There's no resolution for us. Nobody shows up. I mean, the person's already dead. noise and the disruption has already occurred. We call Western justice. Oh, we'll be out in a minute. Oh, sure. Maybe sometimes 10 minutes, sometimes an hour to fix something. People here yelling, doing stuff. So it's not like you can come to the scene of the accident because you can't predetermine what the accident is going to be. And it happens. And when you talk about events, and I really wish the council would get off the word events, it's the number of disruptions. That's how you should think about this. How many disruptions do you think as an owner, a taxpayer in the city of Pasadena, I should undergo every year? It's disruptions. It's not events from their perspective. It's disruptions. And we get a lot of disruptions. Finally, and I want to talk just a little bit about tech because I like music I hope all of you do too. When they go inside they shut the door they put on music. I love everything from Frank Sinatra to the more Kendrick to you name it. But today the way they record isn't 4 track.. It didn't even 8-track. It's a whole new genre of recording. And the thumpers that go off can thump right through this wall down that stairway and out into the front of your building through these walls. They're not playing Frank Snatcher at you're in a wedding. Believe me. They're playing something to get people going. And we can hear that at our house, because they thunk. And even though you have a DJ that says, well, we're going to keep it to a certain level, I mean, here overwhelmed. OK, thank you. Yep. I just want to, you know, bring us back to the question, you know, the issue is not the least. The issue is, do we grant a conditional use permit with the conditions that are before us. That's the question. Not past conduct. Not. Well, that's the issue. Is there's a conditional use permit before us? And the question for the council is, will we approve a condition use permit with the conditions that are outlined by the staff? With regard to exhibit B, Madam City Attorney, can you just address the issue that was raised? Yeah, the question. Can you clarify what you're referring to with it? Excuse me. Exhibit B2. Yeah, the question. Can you clarify what you're referring to with it? Excuse me, exhibit B to Mr. McDonald's letter. No. Which exhibit B? Are you referring to the plan for public use? Is that where you're referring to? Oh, the plan. Right. I could address that. So our, the Dean O'Connell Assistant City Attorney, our research into the federal regulations and laws that authorized this lease back in 1988, 89, was that originally the General Services Administration intended to sell the whole 12 properties, 12 buildings that were for sale by public auction. And in fact, they did in 1988, they sold 12 of those properties to maybe the buildings where the residents were living in now. And they held back four buildings for a negotiated sale process with the city. In a negotiated sale process, it doesn't have to be by competitive bidding or a public auction, but it does have to be at fair market value. And they have to check boxes. GSA has to check boxes before submitting the package to Congress, a congressional committee for approval. And one of those boxes was whether there is a public purpose. And the public purpose is satisfied by exhibit B to the lease. The plan of public use for surplus property. And the general services, they don't have a form for it. They just have examples that other cities provide or they provide the samples that other cities have submitted. And this plan for public purpose was actually crafted mainly by Western Justice Center. And it was submitted. And it basically just allowed the, in fact, if I could just read the language from the code of federal regulations, a negotiated sales to public bodies can only be conducted if a public benefit which would not be realized from a competitive sale will result from negotiated sale. So the requirement likely satisfies, or the plan satisfies the requirement that a negotiated sale result in a public benefit which would not be realized from a competitive sale. the plan for, well that's all, I'll just, that's directly answering your question. And with, you know, one of the, one of the questions that's been raised or issues that's been raised is that this use would run contrary to our zoning quarter or the underlying land use documents. So I want to address that. This isn't allowed use. Yes, subject to a conditional use program. Subject to a conditional use. The zoning does allow it. And our interpretation of the lease is that it allows it, recognizing that we are considering the lease separately. And so the question, the first question I guess in the analysis is, is this an allowed use for land use purposes zoning? And the answer to that is yes. Yes, subject to a conditional right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. and distinguishes between business hours and non-business hours. Right. Our interpretation is that yes, it would be allow and allowable use. Okay. And in terms of profit versus not for profit activity. I see the point that for profit activity is not allowed, but I don't consider fundraising to be for, the type of for profit activity that was contemplated. I think if we were, I think last time we used the example of a Starbucks or McDonald's or something, that would be for-profit activity. But fundraising in conjunction with. Fund raising for a nonprofit. For the nonprofit is a different situation. I mean, to Mr. Hampton's point, let's take the green and green home, the Gamble House, thank you, who often conducts fundraising events at a host's events or photography, even City Hall, we host events, photography. I mean, we use a number of city facilities in this exact manner in order to support the public facility, in order to support the public goal and services. And so then the question becomes are the conditions that are contained here, sufficient to protect the neighbors because it's not an illegitimate argument to say people are impacted. And so, do we have sufficient conditions that would protect residents? And you know, one way to address that question is to have a period of time where we test these conditions in order to make that determination. Michelle, you know, given that a conditional use permit runs with the land once we granted, could we be able to re-visit this and approve this with the conditions and then we'd like to revisit it six months a year and they'd have to be willing under those circumstances to amend the conditions. Not just to amend the conditions, but to be able to re-visit this and to be able to re-visit it six months a year and they'd have to be willing under those circumstances to amend the conditions. Not just review the conditions but amend conditions based on real experience. Well as you mentioned conditional use permits run with the land and we certainly have put conditions in where at a period of time six months a year there's a review. I would look to our deputy city attorney or our planning director but as a general rule it does run with the land. Well that's why I'm asking if the applicant were willing to consent to. We do have that already in the conditions. So condition number 38 has a mandatory 12 months review. Right, but of the existing conditions. Correct. Or whatever conditions we approve. Yes, but at that time you could introduce new conditions, you can modify the conditions. Okay. So we could introduce new conditions we approve. Yes, but at that time, you could introduce new conditions, you can modify the conditions. Okay. So we could introduce new conditions. Yes. And also at any time, as we have as a condition in here, you can call it up. If they're not following the rules, and we did not have a CUPM place before, so that we didn't have the ability to do this now, we do, you can call it up and we can go through revocation if we needed to if they weren't following the rules. If they weren't complying, if they weren't complying, right? If there was evidence of that. Okay. Ms. Rivas. Thank you, Mayor. I agree with Councillor Masuda. I support the staff recommendation. For much of the reasons you've just laid out, but I am open to, it sounds like what you're alluding to, maybe revisiting, which is currently part of the recommendation, or what Councilor Hampton suggested 18 with ramp up to 21, with some other conditions, I think, changing into 10 o'clock. Those are all things I'm open to and would support, but I also am with Councilmember Macyud in supporting the staff recommendation as it is as well. And in the interest of time, maybe we can vote if there's interest in that direction. We can try to reach some agreement there. I do think there's a final outstanding issue. That's the issue and it's again a very legitimate complaint. I've experienced it myself. Residents have complained to me about it that they call the police department, the police department says we don't handle noise. That's a zoning or land use issue called code or code issue. And so I do think we have a responsibility to solve that issue whether it's identifying specifically someone with encode enforcement who neighbors could call and lodge complaints with if this is approved and provide that information to both parties, both the Appellants as well as the applicants so that there's clarity on who to contact and we can have real time information. Okay, I think you're on some medicine. medicine is this medicine you're back in the queue? Yes, Mary, I just want to follow up on the city attorney So you you referred to the plan for use We were you informing us that there's something that's incorrect there No, no, I was were you informing us that there's something that's incorrect there? No, no, I was explaining the reason why I was put there and basically it was a requirement for the general services administration to just push forward the application as it were to show that there was a public purpose. And what I neglected to mention is our research also found that the federal government is not likely at all to enforce any violation of that plan for public years. Why is that relevant? It's not a part of the conditions, the covenants that were in the quick claim deed. So, and I know you mentioned that the catch all covenants, but the three specific covenants that run with land did not include the plan for public use. And so it's highly unlikely that the federal government would enforce any violation of that plan for public use. You're not asserting that we should violate a plan that we submitted to the federal government and incorporated into the lease. I think the subsequent filing of that quick claim deed with the conditions that were required to run with the land failed to include that surplus plan, and therefore our staff did contact the federal government and they determined that no, that isn't something that is continuing to apply. Well, in their view, but the lease does incorporate it by reference and makes it an exhibit. Right. And the lease was actually amended, I think, after the conveyance of the property. Correct? By the city. But that was never taken out. I can't, I don't think it was taken out, but I think the fact that it wasn't reflected in the deed that was recorded with respect to the property. And again, the fact that the terms of the lease, we feel that there is compliance with the terms of the lease. And that's a separate discussion that the council will discuss. I also wanted to point out that the staff report that accompanied the approval of the lease for the council in 1989 is part of the record. And regarding use, the statement is the use is restricted to the purposes described in the plan of public purpose for surplus property filed with the federal government. So it certainly seems that the city's intent in entering into the lease was that the use would be restricted to the purposes described in that plan. And it goes on to say this requires operation of the Center for Nonprofit Law-related functions. And there's no, again, there's no reference to an event venue or any, even any other uses at night or on the weekends or anything. So is it restricted to what's in the plan? If I could jump in. No, is that you? I'm saying with me though, right? So that's what the report said. But the report did leave out the last sentence of 5.1. They were referring to 5.1 but the report did not mention the last sentence of 5.1. They were referring to 5.1, but the report did not mention the last sentence of 5.1. The nothing herein precludes tenant from using the premises for community meetings and other purposes during non-business hours. And it's also our opinion that the language in the plan for public use, it doesn't foreclose the use of property for other benefits. A property that results in both a public and private benefit still results in a public benefit that serves the purposes of a negotiated sale. Pursuant to the 40 USC Section 545. But the staff report says the use is restricted to what was in the plan. You're saying that just because there's a plan that doesn't mean you can't use it for other purposes. The staff report summarized the language of the lease but it did not fully capture the language of the lease, which has that important last line of 5.1. OK. I think I've asked my question, and you've provided an answer. With regard to one final point that I just want to address, with regard to the Norton Siamen agreement, the city does pay for landscape being, but I don't see that as the same situation here because that's part of a contractual agreement that's in place that has been in place for a long time not not one that I don't I don't think anybody on this council participated in the approval of that I certainly didn't and so that's how that came about. Okay, with that, there's a motion in a second. Oh, I thought Miss Tirmesuda just... I'll make the motion to support staff's recommendation.. All right, second. That means revisit. So let's take that as a motion to close the public hearing first. Any objections to closing the public hearing? Now on the merits, Mr. Mistuto moves. I'll make in substitute motion because I can't support staff's recommendation. He hasn't even made the new motion yet. No, there was a, I thought they were just going to roll it. That's fine. But now. I don't need to make a substitute motion. I'll wait for you to make the motion and then I'll make a substitute. Okay, I'll make a motion with changes. And so number one, the mayor mentioned as well as the neighbors mentioned that there's no place to actually file these complaints. The police department should be taking on these complaints because they typically take on noise complaints but if they're not showing up then we need to figure out another process for this. We can add a condition that provides a business hours direct contact and code enforcement. So they have a staff member to contact and we can provide an after hours number that we work with the police department on so that they make sure we give them the right information and we coordinate with them. And we have an after hours number for them as well. Okay, and that's fair, but I think that moving forward forward we need to have someone through the planning department maybe this is a budget discussion item to have someone after hours for code related issues because things happen on Saturdays and Sundays in the city and in the evenings etc. and there's no one that it's code related in the police department will say, this seems like a code issue. This is not a police problem. But for my understanding, the police do respond to noise complaints. They respond to noise complaints within my district all the time. And so if they're not doing that across the city, then that's a problem and that needs to be fixed with the police department. So my number one that's that's number one that needs to happen. There needs to be an actual place where residents can make these complaints. Question is is there a TUP in place right now? I believe the last time. No. There's nothing in place. Okay. So I would, sorry, make a modification to the operations of hours for Saturdays to 10 PM instead of 11. That's consistent with the roles. We'll even know as mentioned, these are not events. their interruptions to the residents. Sundays from 9 to 8 p.m. And I would block out all major holidays. No eventual holiday weekends. Huh? Saturday 9 to 10. 9 a.m. to 10 p.m. Yeah, 9 a.m. to 10 p.m. And that's a, and then 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. on Sundays. And then major holidays would be blocked out. And then I would start off at 18 events instead of 21 and if it's moving fine you know there could be a change in the condition and the condition should come back within it says 12 months but within six months and then another check in in 12. Do we want to do six months from the first wedding so you have some I don't know when they might not that's fair. So we have time to have the wedding. The event. Okay. of that. Yeah. Okay. If I can ask a point of clarification, the way the condition is worded, the check-in is at the hearing officer level, is that okay with the council, that it's at the hearing officer level? The check-in, as the way the condition is written, is at a hearing officer level. That's where it went before, right? That's typically what it does. I just want to make sure everybody's okay. And the hearing officer level is, it will be no-one's eye. That's typically where it's done. Yes, and there's notice and yes. Mm-hmm, yeah. Okay. There's second. Mr. Jones. Okay, and before the first event there will be a number in location that residents will have. You will have something to give a resident. Yes we'll have a daytime and a nighttime contact for them. Thank you. Okay. So are there objections to the motion? I object for the reasons I express my thank you. Thank you, Mr. Madison. Okay, the matter is approved and do we need a role? Do you want to do? Do we need a role call or is that? You don't have to, but it's advisable. Okay. If you want. It's up to you. So we just would have heard. The clerk should state what the vote was and that who voted yes and no. All right. I understand what the changes were. So the motion in the second was approved. Councillor Hampton was a yes, Councillor Jones was a yes, Councillor Mazzin was a no, Councillor Mazzuda was a yes, Vice Mayor Rebus was a yes, Mayor Gordo was a yes, so that's five in favor, two against, and sorry, one against and two absent. I was trying to get to that. With council member Cole in line absent. Okay, thank you, everyone. Next. We do our number eight. Yeah, let's go to item eight. I think that can. Item eight is a matter that's been before us previously and I think we can mayor take up I have to. Yes and I was wondering if item 9 could be reported on at a following meeting. asked to postpone item nine until a different meeting. This informational item anyhow. We could report it. The information is already in the packet. We can report on it at the next meeting or whatever meeting you'd like. That'd be grateful. I'd be grateful. Thank you. Thank you. So I'm not going to come back. All right. Do we need a full presentation on this? This is eight. Bonds. No. I do not. Okay. This is approval of the issuance of bonds that we've discussed previously. No. Okay. And do you want, is there a motion or a motion to approve? Okay. Okay. Okay, been moved and seconded. Read books and are there any objections? See no objections that matters approved. Thank you Mr. Reganiel, that was terrific. Thank you, Mayor and Council, I just like to acknowledge, grateful for our Chiefess Wentlow. Our financial advisors in Legal Council stayed in case there were any questions so I appreciate it's been a good team and we look forward to pricing these bonds. Get us a good price. There's not a lot going on in Wall Street right now. It's a competitive sale, but we'll do our best Mayor I did did want to note that we do have one speaker card for item number nine I know that you want to continue that to feature meeting We're gonna continue item nine to a future meeting, but if there's a public comment card that's been submitted, I think we have a responsibility to allow the speaker to have there two minutes. Sure, Christine Rodriguez. Ms. Rodriguez. Hi, good evening, council members. I just wanted to discuss item number nine about the report about relief programs. Thank you for this report. I was very eye opening to see that unfortunately, it seems like there's not a lot of renter support that is available right now. We had some support from the Los Angeles grant relief program from FEMA, but unfortunately those programs did end. So I'm just thinking about the folks who maybe didn't know that they were supposed to sign up for some sort of rent or relief program, who maybe have exhausted those funds who are trying to catch up on maybe their credit card bill because they had to pay for hotel stay. And so I wanted to ask and we could address this in the next council meeting about, is there any talks about planting seeds to hopefully have some sort of rent relief program for people who in Pasadena were impacted by the fires. Again, it seems like through the report there's not much left as opposed to non-profit assistance, but I don't see the city of Pasadena providing any rent or relief. When I think it might be needed especially post-fire as folks, try to rebuild. I really believe that it's important to assist people in any way that we can as a preventive way to prevent increase of homelessness here in Pasadena. But I'm happy to assess more of that in the next city council meeting when you folks present that. We can start with. Woodrow. That can lead public comment for that item. Okay. So item 9 will be held until the next meeting and the information will be given out. We just wanted to take the public comment. Can I just ask that staff bring something back when it comes back? And that is, I appreciate the information, but at the second page of the staff report, the PCF, there's a reference to the amount that's been distributed, but not the amount that's been collected. And I would specifically like to know how much has actually been brought in as well as how much has been distributed. Thank you. And I'm going to agree with that. And also, I think when I originally asked for this, it was what more can we do and what ways we could partner with some of these nonprofits to help offset some of the dollars that they're putting forth. And so hopefully there will be more of that in the discussion. I know that this was an informational item and so I don't know if that was going to be a part of the presentation. I guess at our next meeting we could take that up then but just hopefully that's something that the City Manager and the Finance Department are looking into seeing how the city can help our residents, Pasadena residents, because there's been a lot of support, but that support has been counting wide, and there are a lot of people that have been impacted, and our focus of course is on our residents here in Pasadena and how we can help them. The report did include all the programs we have. Many are related to homelessness or trying to prevent homelessness, and so those dollars are listed, and that's, we scoured everything we add internally. That's all we add, unless there was a general fund request. But as I think so many have seen, you know, the general fund is at an extremely difficult situation given everything's happening in the financial world right now. But I think that's a topic to be brought back to us either. Maybe that's a finance meeting or maybe it is something that we'll discuss more in depth when it comes to us for the presentation at our next council meeting. So I'm excited about having that conversation. I do have to take off and I thank my colleagues on for allowing us to postpone that until the next meeting. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. Mr. Cole. Yeah, it was Mr. Hampton originally made this suggestion. It was actually incorporated in a motion. I made it, I think you've seconded. And. Yeah, it was Mr. Hampton originally made this suggestion. It was actually incorporated in a motion. I made I think you've seconded and I think we were looking for for more than just an inventory and an information item. The reality is is that if 10 people take advantage of this program, that's one thing. If 100 people take advantage of this, it's another thing. If a thousand people take advantage of it, it's get another thing. But if someone cannot pay their rent because of these circumstances and are entitled to affirmative defense for six months, their $2,000 a month rent is going to rack up. That has an impact on their landlord. And then at the end of six months somebody owes $12,000. And they're not going to have $12,000 if they couldn't pay rent for six months. And so the landlord's been out for six months of getting rent. The tenant is racked up a significant bill and will end up with an eviction on their record. And that's what we're trying to prevent. So the challenge to staff is not just, well, we haven't had this problem before, so we don't have a solution. The answer is what are some of the potential solutions they have downsides? They have costs. They have challenges. But let's take a look at how we can solve this problem because if that's the problem we're trying to solve here. We're trying to keep people who lost their jobs or who lost their businesses and who can't afford to pay their rent. How do we keep them housed without putting an undue burden on the housing provider. And hopefully keeping them housed after the six months expired. And the answer that, well, we don't have an answer doesn't solve the problem. So there may not be an easy solution. There may not be a cheap solution, but we need to have some options either that we can step up and do or that we can implore the private sector, the nonprofit sector, the faith sector to step up because these are real people who are suffering and we don't want them out on the street. Okay, thank you. That brings us to... and we don't want them out on the street. Okay, thank you. That brings us to item 9. No, 9 is what we just- I'm sorry, 6. 6, thank you. And as has been my practice, I am going to recuse myself on this matter. And is on the queue. Already. No, that was the last item. Okay. Thanks. I'll remove myself. Yes, Councilor Recull. So we had an extensive discussion about this issue. It appears to me that the staff is pretty conclusively given us a legal opinion about where we ought to go. If others have questions, I'm certainly happy to defer, but I'm prepared to make a motion on this. We have a recommendation. The staff is joining in that recommendation. City Attorney's Office has said we really have a very little choice beyond adopting this recommendation. So again, I defer to any questions or concerns, but I'm prepared to move this forward. I do know we had two council members had essential legal questions that have been answered in the staff report. It was, was there any further questions or discussion on those points? I wanna make sure we fully vet those. No, I just, I would like to say thank you to the staff and both from the, from the Enstabilization Department and from the City Attorney's Office for, for what was a really comprehensive analysis and, and report. So I prepared to move forward as well. Great. So there's no further comments or discussion. Welcome, a motion. I'm, I'm, I move our, we adopt the staff for a minute. Hold on, sorry one. It's fine. You can make the motion and then I'll ask you. Okay. Go ahead. So it's a staff recommendation. Yes, but we need a second. I'll second. Mr. Madison? I want to echo my colleagues in thinking the staff for this really good piece of work. Is this the same recommendation though that the board made? Yes it is. Okay, so I don't want that to get lost in the kind of legislative intent here. Right. Should also express our gratitude to the board. And do you have a second or do you need one else second? I believe we have a second. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Matto. Madam, I think it's important to acknowledge the board. Acknowledge the voters. This was passed as part of Measure H to encourage us to adopt the full LSAC protection. So, and thank you again to staff for providing that additional explanation of and answer all our questions. So, thank you so much. Are there any objections to the motion? Seeing none, the motion passes. So, yeah, very quick this time. Thank you to staff for all your hard work. May their jobs easy. So, thank you so much.