you you Good evening, everybody. I wanted to first off thank you all for coming out tonight. I was a little worried that with the weather we might not get a lot of participation, but I see that this is almost the full house and that's great. Before I get started, I'm Jason McGurk. I'm your zone three commissioner, which includes the airport and the surrounding neighborhoods, which I'm sure all of you are from. And before I get started, I do wanna recognize that our Vice Mayor, Valley Pirene is in the audience to listen today. And so is Zone One Commissioner, Lisa Mark, Zone Two, Zone Two, I'm Vets Roy, Zone Two. Vice Mayor, Zone One, thank you, Lisa. So we have both Lisa and Valley here too, listen to what's going on today. The point of today's meeting is we technically had a public meeting with the reporting back of the airport noise study by the consultant. But that was done during a commission meeting in a formal setting. And I'm sure a lot of you did not necessarily hear about that or get to attend it and I've heard from a lot of you about not being able to attend it or you didn't know about it. So I asked for the special meeting, public meeting specifically so we just address what's here tonight and I see a lot of faces that I'm very familiar with a lot of people who've been very passionate about this. Steve Wood, welcome. I know that you've been a big advocate for getting some changes for the airport, same with the radigins, and a number of other people. So again, thank you for coming. The goal for tonight, again, is to make sure that you hear what the consultant said. I'm not, I don't think you're gonna hear anything drastically different or anything measurably different than what has been in the past. I'm not asking you to agree with the FAA study, the noise study. There's a lot about it that is, that is, it's, it's, it's, it's for lack of a better word, it's weighted to the FAA and airplanes, but that's supposed to be like that. So we have a small little airport surrounded by neighborhoods and the goal tonight is for you all to be able to express your concerns. Now, I understand everybody's like a pot that's simmering. You deal with it, you deal with it, you think you talk to people. I don't want the pot to simmer over tonight. The key, what I would like to accomplish tonight is I want to hear from people who have one, two, three specific things that they would like to see changed. What are your biggest irritations? We keep, we're not, if you say I want to get rid of the airplanes, I'm going to tell you right now. Unfortunately, that's just not going to happen. So that's a lot of wasted time. Don't give us a list of 10 different things. What are the specific irritations that, and what I'm trying to do is get some sort of consensus on maybe the top three or four things that are the most, that are biggest irritants to people who live around the airport. And then hopefully we can take those issues, those top three or four things, and we can drill down and narrow that down and start working on those specific things. Because my goal is to actually get some of the things done, and we can't do that if everybody has a list tendee of issues. So I'm not trying to discredit or invalidate any of your concerns that you have. I'm sure they're real and I'm sure they're valid. But I want to narrow down what the biggest irritants are, so we can work on trying to figure out the best way to handle that. Because the airport is not going anywhere, the businesses are not going anywhere, and the best thing that we can do is just work together on finding a common ground that we can both live with the best we can. It's not ever gonna be perfect. I'd like to recognize the mayor just walked in, Fred Cleveland. Hello? All right. So we got a full house here tonight. I like to, we have the airport consultant. We have Arvin, who's the head of the airport and we have a number of people from the advisory board including the chairman. If you all of those with the advisory board, can you raise your hand? Great. Okay, thank you all for coming and the importance of this is to get something done and we get something done by tackling it as easy as we can without getting emotional about it, without getting accusatory that's not going to get us anywhere. So what's going to happen is I'm going to hand the mic off to Arvin. Arvin's going to introduce the consultant. Consultant's going to give a brief summary. We're not going to go through the entire length of it. You can all get a copy of it. But we want to spend the time listening to the problems that people have. So I'm going to hand it off to Arvin now. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you all for being here tonight. I also want to recognize our city manager city next to the mayor college Rashad who is retiring and thank you for being here. Thank you for all your years of service too. Also recognize Ron Neiber who is sitting over here on the front row. He is the assistant city manager and I report to him as the airport manager. City next to Ron is my assistant Jacob Kosat, the assistant airport manager. In the back is Tammy Hall our airport coordinator. They'll both be helping me tonight pass around the mic and pass out a handout a little bit later. So I want to thank you all for being here. I want to introduce our guest this evening who is the consultant that we, the City Commission, voted to bring on board to study, to do a new analysis for the noise at the airport. Mike Arnold is with ESA Environmental Science Associates. Mike has been doing this for about 20 years. He has been doing this for about 20 years. He has been doing noise and other environmental studies for airports such as Atlanta, some of the biggest airport in the world. Atlanta, the port of New Jersey, New York, Miami-Dade. So we're pleased to have Mike. Mike is going to come and share a little bit about his study. Once he's done that I'm going to follow up with the recommendations that were made by our advisory board after his study was complete and then we'll take questions. Thanks, Arvin. And I see some familiar faces out there and maybe some new faces. So hopefully they get something out of tonight. Just a little bit more about myself I do live in Orlando so I understand the challenges we have in Florida with the high level of like training activity, aviation activity, and the outdoor environment that we have and the desire to enjoy that outdoor environment to the extent that we can in the conflict, the aviation plays throughout our state. It worked not only in Florida, but all across the country and a variety of different challenges. And not equating the challenges you have at New Smirna to places like LaGuardia and others, but the way that the FAA sees the, sees aviation noise and the challenges is, they see it the same way, which is, creates particular challenges for airports in trying to address noise and noise exposure and community concerns relative to aircraft operations. I'll start by giving a little bit of background with kind of what led to our doing this work and then talk a little bit about some of the analysis that we've conducted and some of the conclusions that we've made and recommendations that resulted from our analysis. So back in the 2010 timeframe there was a formal noise study called the Pert150 done for the airport. It looked at the current noise exposure environment and the future noise exposure environment based on the projected activity for the airport. Ultimately it was determined that none of the measures that were identified and explored as part of the study could be formally approved by the FAA because the FAA has very specific criteria that they apply. They need us to demonstrate that we have non-competable land use and that those non-competable land uses can be resolved, can be reduced by various measures that can be implemented. I'm gonna show you what the current and past noise exposure environment is, and why we couldn't get any of those measures formally approved. What that means is that you can implement measures on a voluntary basis at the airport levels. So rather than progressing all the way through a very long FAA approval process, 180 days minimum federal statute to go through that process, the Part 150 study was suspended because again, you could implement those measures locally, voluntarily, without having to have formal FAA approval because the FAA wasn't going to formally approve any of those because we couldn't demonstrate what needed to be demonstrated. So ultimately as we saw kind of going through COVID and coming out of COVID a very big uptick and you know a lot of training activity and a lot of community concern about training activity. Some of it had to do with where people were located, a lot of people working from home, in different environment than they had previously, but we saw this kind of trend occur throughout Florida, and we were brought in to kind of evaluate, you know, what's really going on out there, has the noise condition gotten worse, what is actually going on. They report in the meantime, the 22 timeframe, actually implemented a new system at the airport that collects operational flight track and more operational data. That data hasn't existed, that detailed flight track information hasn't existed for the airport in the past. So we had better information than we've had at any time in the past for the airport in the past. So we had better information than we had at any time in the past about the airport operations to be able to use and evaluate this. Ultimately, the results of our analysis were presented in two different entities. One was a 2023, July 2023 community workshops where we presented our initial analysis and then finally our results were presented to City Council in the meeting that was referenced that occurred on February 27th a little bit earlier this year. So as we look at flight tracks, this aerial isn't, you know, colored purple but these flight tracks are purple and you can see that just about all the areas around the airport receive some level of overflight. Those areas that are more concentrated are shown in blue and green and ultimately getting down to yellow and red as you get in closer to the runways themselves. So you can see that aircraft operations are fairly widely dispersed throughout the community, but there are areas that receive significantly more overflights than others. As we looked at the operational trends, you know, what's changed since the late 2000 time frame, 2000s, we went back and we looked at the activity profile to 2005. The great line shows the total operations at the airport. The orange line shows the flight training operations. And the blue line shows the itinerant operations. Itinerant operations are operations that are using Newsmer and Abich as either an origin or destination, but they're flying to a different location or from a different location. They're not staying in the general area and operating. And you can see there was a pretty big uptick at that time and I think that's what a lot of what led to the previous noise study. There was a more jet activity and more of the larger complex aircraft that were operating at the airport at that time. We've seen that activity drop during the recession essentially, the last recession, and it hasn't really rebounded. It's kind of stayed in that general flat area. What we have seen is we've seen, you know, starting in 2016, that flight training activity increase, and it's pretty much stayed at a fairly high level. And while operations are lower than they've been at previous times in the operational environment, the flight training remains near its all-time highs. We also looked at the daily aircraft operational profile because oftentimes people are more disturbed by early morning or late night flights. Flights that occur during times of the day when they're trying to sleep, having quite woken up yet. And so we tried to take a look at that and determine how does that compare to what the airport noise abatement procedures are and is it generally an alignment with them? And if you look at when the majority of the operations occur, they do occur between the hours of 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. About 20% occur outside of those hours. When the FAA looks at the defined nighttime activity and yeah so from eight from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. the other is about 78 percent which means from 5 p.m. to 8 a.m. is 22%, which I apologize if I misspoke. Don't want to confuse anyone. But about 22% of the activity is occurring outside kind of the normal business day. And that tends to get picked up by people because if they're at the office or working during a normal day, they come home and they don't know really what happens during the day when they're not around. When we look at the nighttime, the 10pm to 7am, about 3% of activity occurs there. About 5% of the activity occurs on Sundays, which one of the noise abatement measures is no flight training activity on Sundays. So we did see the correlations pretty much line up with the voluntary noise abatement procedures that are in place at the airport. And one of the questions that kind of came out of this is, are we compressing the operations in such a tight time frame that it's creating a level of frequency and annoyance during those times now, during the daytime, that's creating another challenge that maybe wasn't anticipated with the guidance to operate during those periods. It was alluded to a little bit about the aircraft, airport noise and how the airport noise is regulated. Federal law does regulate airport noise. Federal law sets noise standards for aircraft. It certifies, it sets the guidelines for pilots and it sets the planning guidance for what's compatible, a compatible level of noise exposure and what isn't. State law can set various compatibility planning guidelines and noise standards, but aircraft are exempt from that guidance and those standards same with local noise ordinances. Aircraft are exempt from those standards. Now, local governments can promote compatible land use through zoning by setting up zoning around airports to reduce encroachment. They can require real estate disclosures. They can mandate sound insulating building materials if you're building in an area around an airport. One of the conditions of being able to build in that area is to integrate those sound insulation strategies into those buildings And when it comes to airport operators Ability responsibilities or their their authority when it comes to regulation of noise They have very limited authority to adopt local restrictions. They're primarily responsible for capital improvement projects. Basically, the airport operator can advocate on the community's behalf with the FAA and the operators, but they're extremely restricted in what they can actually do from an implementation or mandatory standpoint, which means they really rely on those relationships with the FAA and aircraft operators to try to take actions to minimize the impact on the communities. When the FAA looks at noise exposure, they're not just looking at a single aircraft overflight. They're looking at cumulative noise exposure. They're not just looking at a singular craft overflight. They're looking at cumulative noise exposure. They're looking at an annual average day noise exposure. So they're saying, okay, individual aircraft flying over your house may not be noncompetable with your house. But at some level, a noise exposure associated with those overflights would be considered not compatible. We wouldn't want to have houses in that location once we hit that threshold of overall noise exposure. And so as part of determining that noise exposure, they've got a methodology that is used. We look at all the aircraft that operate throughout the course of a year, 365 days. We look at the flight distance of those aircraft because aircraft that are flying further are heavier and they're lower to the ground, takes more thrust to get them going, they're no easier. We look at the total number of operations, we look at the time of day that those occur. Night time as I told you between 10 PM and 7 AM, the way of day that those occur. Night time, as I told you, between 10 pm and 7 am, the way the FAA defines it, each nighttime operation is weighted equivalent to 10 daytime flights. So the noise exposure with a nighttime operation is weighted in this calculation, this average annual day level, is equal to 10 daytime operations. So we have that kind of determines the amount of noise exposure and then noise exposure. The distribution throughout the community depends on things like the runway configuration and use, the wind conditions that influence runway use. Front flight track locations where are those planes flying once they're in the air? And a variety of other factors. Ultimately, when we're modeling noise, we generate a series of noise exposure contours. In blue is what the FAA has identified as non-compatible with community with residential or noise sensitive uses. You can see that it's largely on airport property. The dash line is the DNL 60 contour. The blue line is the DNL 65 contour. Just to give you kind of a frame of reference. So we analyzed that and we took a look at, well, what's changed since the last time we analyzed noise back in 2008 timeframe? All of that itinerant aircraft was, those operations were occurring and we had more jet aircraft and such operating at the airport. In this case, the outer magenta line and the outer blue line, the blue lines are related to the current noise contours. The magenta lines are the previous noise contours. The uttermost blue solid line and the uttermost magenta solid line shows the 65 DNL contour and what that looked like and how that compared. So you can see that there's been actually a reduction in the actual overall noise exposure around the airport. But clearly not necessarily a reduction in the annoyance the communities experiencing because of the types of activity that are creating that concern. So what does that mean? It means from an FAA standpoint, a mandatory standpoint. We don't have any non-competable land uses within the contours that we can show that we can implement mandatory measures for to reduce the number of those non-competable land uses. And that essentially means that any actions that we take to address noise here at the airport have to be voluntary in nature. Now that doesn't mean that voluntary isn't effective. As you saw the operational profiles of the aircraft, you can see that a lot of the things that are in place are being followed at the airport. So I think the key is to try to figure out what's being done and what else we can do to help address the community concerns. The airport does have a number of measures in place to try to minimize the impacts on the community. These measures generally either route aircraft over areas to minimize overflights to the community or to try to do them in a way, a time of the way that they operate, you know, not on holidays, not on Sundays, certain days of the week, or certain hours of the day. So, trying to limit the amount that people experience during those periods where they might be more affected or impacted. The airport also does work with the aircraft, one of the primary aircraft trainers here at the airport, and with the FAA as well to try to work on those types of issues. So we developed kind of a summary of our initial analysis that kind of indicated some of the things that I've already mentioned. One of the things I haven't talked about was that we also took a look at how many home sales have occurred in the area. We found this to be a very interesting number, not only at News Merne Beach Airport, but just throughout the state of Florida, we saw a huge influx string COVID, a lot of new population moving in that either wasn't aware of the airport, didn't know where their home was, relative to the airport. We saw a lot of sight unseen purchases. Things that were going on where people are in a different country and they're actually purchasing homes as part of the country that weren't even aware that there was an airport anywhere nearby. It's just another complicating factor, you know, right for the community. So we determined that roughly a hundred or about a thousand homes in the 36-month period, I think that was from early 2000 through early 2023, had sold in the area around the airport. So if you're new to the area, I get it. We saw a lot of home sales during that time period. We also noted, again, voluntary measures are in place. Daily activity shows observance of those measures and that we showed a general overall decrease in the actual levels of overall noise exposure. Back in July of last year, we held two workshops on the 27th and 28th. We had 51 people attend. We had a number of survey forms that we provided to the community and solicited feedback as part of that. We got 31 forms back. You can see which issues the community raised the most concerned with. There was flight training, the frequency of operations. Early morning and weekend operations were two that did pop up as well. Night time operations as well. As part of that solicitation we also solicited ideas from the community that they wanted us to investigate. We did have a number of suggestions and we did evaluate and look at a variety of those different suggestions. Some of those suggestions are outside the airports purview, like they're not able to move activity from one airport to another airport, or relocating the airport. What we were primarily focused in is operational measures to improve the operation with the community. So I'm not gonna go through all those in detail. We also took a look at, well, what are other airports throughout the state doing? What type of limitations do they have on like touch and go activity? What's the altitude of their pattern? We have a hundred foot pattern here at New Smurnda Beach. Many airports in the state have a thousand foot pattern, you know? So try to take a look at like what types of things were they implementing at their airports and were some of those things that we could try to bring here to News Mournabeech. Many of these airports have those exact same issues or similar issues that News Mournabeech does, a very high volume of flight training activity. And ultimately, we found out News Mournabeech is actually in some ways more restrictive in certain cases and with their recommending, especially in the flight training hours and how they are recommending those on a daily basis. Ultimately, we ended up with a series of recommendations based on our analysis. One of those was designating a calm wind runway, basically when the operational conditions permit, does a runway that had the least impact or impact on the least number of people. Raising a pattern altitude, exploring that, determining if it was feasible, to raise it from 800 to 1000 feet, we're close to Daytona Beach Airspace. It's one of the challenges that we have here is the interaction that goes on between the two airports. Simplifying the voluntary noise abatement hours, we have times where we have no repetitive operations and then touch-and-go operations. And there's confusion over repetitive versus touch-and-go. Do they mean the same thing? Do they not mean the same thing? The potential to simplify those. And maybe further limit the activity that occurs outside that time period from 5 to 8 p.m. The education process and outreach with the flight schools, that's an ongoing process. Just like every school that your children go to, the kids rotate through that school and you have a new class and that new class has to learn all the new stuff. And it's an ongoing cycle that the flight school has to be committed to and implement and the airport has to kind of make sure that they're doing that. Bringing the noise issues, making sure that they're part of their report advisory board meetings that they continue to be something that is addressed proactively to the extent possible by the report advisory board so that they can understand what's going on with the community concerns. If there's something different, if there's been a change, help so that they can be aware that that change has occurred. And take steps or action to the extent that they can to address it. And then finally, considering implementation of a disclosure or a notification area that just makes people aware that there's an airport in the area. It could be an airport within three miles and airport close by. I mean, there's a variety of different strategies that airports and communities have implemented to just try to make people more aware that they're moving into an environment that they need and it has a feature that they need to be aware of. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Irvin, I think, right? All right. Thank you, Mike. So who here, by raise your hands, who's here from, and it shows? Who's here from Islesboro? Let's see another neighborhood. Turnbull. Turnbull. Turninal. Terminal. Terminal. Terminal. The whole area. Like the whole area, terminal. The whole area, terminal. The whole area, terminal. Okay. Who, who, who, who, who, who, who are we missing? Another area. Any other area that's here tonight? Okay. All right, so thank you, Mike, for that. So basically, after Mike presented to the City Commission in February, we had, oh, almost a second here. in March those recommendations were presented to our advisory board and the advisory board voted to hold a roundtable discussion with airport stakeholders and report the findings back to them and, if you could pass out that handout for me please. Tammy is going to hand each of you. I have 40 so you might have to share. We'll see. But this is going to be a summary what you're going to see is the recommendations that Mike just gave were then reviewed and determined what's feasible, what's not, because of different factors. So give you a moment to get those. But in summary, the advisory board voted to vote it on items 1 through 3. Items 4 and five were voted to implement item six was recommended to the city commission for approval in May the advisory board recommendations were presented to the city commission and the city commission Said hey, let's have a public forum, which is why we're here tonight I'm going to do it. This one. Okay, everybody have, oh, this thing keeps messing up on me. All right. So, first recommendation that my CAD was regarding a common runway. So, this is the airport in 1945. Five runways, including the Catapult runway. During World War II, United States built a lot of airports like this with the crisscrossing runways. The reason being is that wind direction is critical during landing to take off for you to be able to maximize the amount of runway being able to use. So the training airfields were built to maximize so that airports or pilots could select the one that was most aligned with the wind. Fast forward to today, Not a lot's changed. You can see a lot of similarity there. But we have three runways left. But as far as wind direction determining which runways and use status still the case, wind direction is usually what dictates the active runway. So there's other factors. A runway closure, construction, et cetera. But generally wind direction changes throughout the day and the runway and use often changes throughout the day as well. For those of you who live near the airport, you may notice in the morning certain runways being used and then as the day progresses when an offshore wind kicks in, they change the runway. So runways are numbered based on compass bearing without getting too technical. There's a shot of an aircraft about to land on runway 7. The runway heading is approximately 070 degrees. It's one of our most commonly used runways because of that offshore wind. So directly do east would be 090, but this runway heading 070, so it's runway 7. So from the opposite direction, it's runway 25, compositing of 250. Runway 7 was identified as the runway that by our roundtable experts as being the least likely to impact the residents. And so that is the runway that is being recommended. Now, you'll notice on your cheat sheet that it's being recommended to designate that runway as the common runway when the tower is closed. So why is that? So when the tower is open to controllers, the purpose of the controllers, their only job or their main job is to separate aircraft. So whatever is most efficient, what's safe, the expert panel and the advisory board agreed that to publish a common runway during the day ties their hands. It does not allow the controllers to do their job. And ultimately, the air traffic controllers and the pilots need to make the decision on what runway makes the most sense for that. So, item 2, pattern altitude. As Mike said, a lot of other airports, their traffic pattern altitude is at a thousand feet. Why are we at only 800? Well, this snapshot here is a three-dimensional view of what the airspace looks like for Daytona and Nusomerna. Daytona Beach International Airport is nine miles north of Nusomerna Beach's airport. Their airspace stretches out 10 miles. What you see here is resembles upside down wedding cake if you will. The bottom tier goes from surface to 4,000 feet and it extends five miles out from the airport at Daytona. The top ring goes from 1,200 feet to 4,000 feet and it extends out 10 miles. New Sumerniz airspace is only 3 miles in diameter. It reaches from the surface to 1,200. As you can see, it sits underneath the shelf of Daytona's. So in order for us to change the traffic pattern altitude, which you can see here, resembles somewhat of a racetrack. And some of you are very familiar with us, so I apologize, but I wanted to make sure if there's anybody in the room who is not aware of this, I'm just going to go into a little bit of explanation. But this racetrack pattern is not the exact pattern, but what's in red is what exists now. If you look at our voluntary noise abatement, that's the approximate pattern that they're flying. Not exactly, because there's so many factors that could change that. Spacing and emergency, you'll see all different lengths, but generally that's where they're flying. In order to raise the traffic pattern altitude, you actually have to have that study by the FAA. It's an arduous process. The why the advisory board did not end up recommending this is because notice the blue line, the blue rectangle. So we modeled what the traffic pattern would look like if we raised it to a thousand feet. You raise it to a thousand feet, the aircraft just by physics and a flight has to fly farther to get to a thousand feet. And when you study the, I think Mike, you could back me up, but when you study how much higher 200 feet is going to make, the decibel change is minimal. But they're climbing out longer. In this particular case, our round table experts, the main issue is because they're flying farther. I'll show you here. So there are aircraft flying up and down the coast all the time. They are not in Newsomernobitches airspace, and therefore they're not under control of the controllers at Newsomernah. But it's the controller's job to separate any aircraft. When you get this close, they're not allowed to have aircraft that close. And so safety was the major reason why they could not recommend that to the City Commission at this time. Number three. So this is probably where a lot of the meat potatoes is. So this is where we live as an airport that does not have a mandatory noise of AIMA program. As Mike said, and Mike, I don't know if you mentioned directly, but there has been no airport in the United States that's been able to get what is known as a Part 161 approval, requiring aircraft mandatory. And if I I'm not I may not be saying that right because of noise through the 161 program. One airport I'm sorry through litigation and there are much louder and much busier than ours. So this is where we live at the present time. So the noise abatement is basically the same more or less that it has been for the past 14 years. As Mike and I won't go into it in depth. But flight training, like you said, is the overwhelming use of the airport at this point in time. It's some of our base customers or some of our base tenant, a big flight academy, Emery Riddell. There's probably 20 flight schools in the area. All of the surrounding airports, Ormond, Flagler, the land, Daytona, all of them. That's their primary use. We'll have to get to questions at just a moment. So the challenge is that we have to communicate and work on that, which I'm going to keep ongoing. But let me get to just a few definitions. So people often ask, what is repetitive? Why, you know, what does this mean? OK, so in the noise abatement, which I'll make sure each of one of you get one of these before you leave, the copy of our noise abatement program. So examples of repetitive. So an aircraft that's staying in the traffic pattern, conducting flight maneuvers over and over. And a lot of the complaints we get, that's what it is. That may be why you're here tonight. It's not necessarily the loudest thing you've ever heard, but it's annoying. It's repetitive, it's buzzing, it's always in your ear, it's kind of just there and it never goes away. So that repetitive nature, by nature, that's what flight training is. In anything you train, you're going to do it over and over again, and that's what they're doing. They're required to do that. So, touching goes. It's an operation by an aircraft that lands, departs on runway without stopping. And when our noise evapment talks about stopping goes, that's what we're talking about. I'm sorry, touching goes. Stop and go. We're an aircraft stops on the runway and then takes off again. Most flight school's discouraged that, so you don't see that too much here. Full stop taxi back. It's an operation aircraft lands. Exits the runway. Taxi's back and takes off. So not a touch-and-go, but when we talk about repetitive, it's still repetitive because they're practicing over and over again. Maybe not as quickly as a touch-and-go, but they are getting back in line and taking off again. Low approach. So this is a maneuver where an aircraft will come in like they're going to land and then they're going to go around. They don't actually touch down, but it's still they're flying around in that traffic pattern, that racetrack pattern. So this is a one that the advisory board panel, sorry the expert panel, recommended that we do new touch and goes with that remove this language from the voluntary noise evapment. In this language it states no touch and goes between the hours of 5 p.m. and 800 the next morning. The reason they're thinking behind that was it's confusing, it's redundant because we already say no repetitive traffic. But this is one that we tested and we didn't have good results. So we are making a recommendation that we go back to the drawing board on this one. For example, and this is one that is again, has not been, our advisory board has not approved, but you know, a lot of other airports have noise, repetitive flight operations before eight. And we say seven. Now we have to discuss this with our users, and we have to discuss this with our advisory board. But again, and we welcome your feedback on this one tonight. Another recommendation was education and outreach. So starting in January of 2023, we began meeting with Epic monthly and we review their compliance with the voluntary noise evapment. Now, it's voluntary. They have made it mandatory. So if one of their students, their instructors, violate the noise of it meant that student or instructor is counseled, make sure they understand, they receive a verbal warning, then a subsequent written warning, etc. And they have terminated multiple instructors because of this. If you look at the year over year data, you'll see the, I believe it's green. Green was 2023 and 2024. We were off to a good start and you'll notice a couple of zeroes there. That's why we were testing everything out. So there was a little leeway, but when we saw this jump to 22, you'll see that it jumped to 22 in June. That's basically one person that forgot and did that and they end up getting fired. So they are taking it seriously and as you can see then in July the numbers came back down. So this community outreach we also do the same thing with other flight schools, although not as often, because they're not flying here as much. But I want to mention that it's not just outreach to the schools. We have an open door, and I have my card here. Anytime you all have a question, you have a concern, you're welcome to call me directly. I invite people to come to the airport if you have a question, give you a tour, et cetera, would love to hear your input and show you what's going on at the airport. Number five, make the, add the topic of noise to all future airport advisory board meetings. So this is something we implemented in April. We've had two meetings. You all may not be aware that we have an airport advisory board meetings. So this is something we implemented in April. We've had two meetings. You all may not be aware that we have an airport advisory board meeting and it's open to the public. It's not just for stakeholders, it's not just for tenants, it's not just for pilots. Public is welcome. There's a public participation part in the beginning, just like for city commission, where you have three minutes to talk, tell us your idea, tell us your concerns, we want to know. And you can visit our website for the meeting information which will have here on a QR card, a QR code in a minute, but it's nsb airport.com. There's a link from the city's website, but the airport does have its own website. So number six and this is an item for discussion for the city commission that Mike made this recommendation and the advisory board passed it on to and this is just so that people are aware and finding tools that we can continue to educate surrounding community. So with that you have it in your hands and here it is on the screen. I'm going to ask Jacob to come get the mic and we're going to open it up for your feedback. I'll be here answering questions. If I don't know the answer, I'll be here answering questions. If I don't know the answer, I'll have Mike here to help. We may ask a question of our advisory board chair, but only one of them can speak at a time, so we've asked Jim if he would do that. Otherwise, thank you for being here and we'll answer your questions. Here are your comments. We put in your name and address when you speak, so we know you are. Also just to mention the slides that were on tonight, you're able to view them on the noise page of the website. So when you go to the website, there's a tab at the top. It says, no, I click it. It has all the same information that Mike presented tonight. Well, we'd like you because we're recording. Hi everybody. Thanks for being here. My name is Connie. I live in inlet shores and I've been here nine years. I have three questions. It seems that we have more flight schools now than we did before. How many do we have? We have one that's based at the airport in New Samaritan. You said two minutes ago that that's our big one, but you have many so how many play schools the surrounding airports have many yes But so I'm sorry surrounding airports have many, but that's the only one that's based in New Samarna Is that the only one that flies out of the airport? No, there's many that come in from other airports including Sanford How many how many schools fly out of our airport? I don't know. How many? I think the first thing I was saying was how many here are those vehicles that are not flying out? How many places do you have? The number of places that you want to hear from them, they're not open to you because like the ones that you want, they have flywood, they have fly school and land. We only have one of glad that they told us. They're so quite small and massive. But ultimately not my question. My question really becomes how many flights per day are being flown by flight schools out of the airport. An average. So, I think the answer to your question is there's a number of flight schools around the area. But ultimately how many flights per day by the flight schools are flown out of the airport average? Well, I can tell you that our based flight school is probably around 85%. That's how it is. I don't know how many others. I wouldn't know that. A number of flights is what I'm asking. Is it 10 is at 500 That's my question. I'd like to get an answer on that We can follow back up with you with that for sure That would be awesome and then my last two questions are How many runways do we have at the airport three and are they building another runway? No? Okay, those are my questions. But I'd like to know how many flights per day because it seems quite a few. I'm going to have Tammy come get your email address or your phone number. Okay great. The commissioners my name. My name is Jeff. I live in Territory. My only concern is not so much with that. It's with the flight school. I'll be honest. If it has a red tail, is that the flight school out of our airport? It can be. Sometimes they don't have red tails. There's different paint tails. All I know is I'm right in the pattern where they take off and turn on. I don't know if they're taught to do that, but they go anywhere from every two to ten minutes. And it I when I'm on my phone or I'm talking with somebody outside, I literally have say, hold on ten, fifteen seconds. I can't talk on my phone or talk to somebody in a conversation in my yard. Now, I know my neighbors that doesn't bother. So I'm just one of those who it does bother. My only concern is I see, I guess, it's runway 7, 90% of the time they use that and it doesn't matter which way the wind's blowing. And I've lived here two years, so it just doesn't matter. They usually run way seven all the time. And my only objection is the takeoffs. The landings are pretty darn quiet. With the occasional jet or twin prop doesn't bother me. That's just the way it is. But the nonstop flight school take-offs in the morning is just, you can't be outside and enjoy it. That's all I have to say. I don't know why they can't take off another direction. So I wanted to show you real quickly. So when they're landing runway seven into the wind, they'll be landing over, you know, coming over the top of your home, but the throttle's reduced, so you probably don't hear it as much. It's probably... So runway two five is... runway two five is this way headed to the west, and that's what people in this area will be... That's when it's a little louder. It's definitely louder. Yeah. Really? Do you have a tap? So 2-5, yeah, this is 2-5, so headed this way. It's a little confusing when you think about which runway is headed which, but 2-5 is headed to the west. 7 is headed to the east. OK, it's west 2-5. 1-2-1 west. Gary Garmin, 2155 Thermal Bay Road. Just some clarification on your recommendation number one. When is the tower open? Oh yes, the tower is open from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. And so when the tower is open, they are the ones dictating what runway would be used. So is there a recommendation to the instructors or the operators of the, I'm trying to remember the name of, the airport controllers? So is this a recommendation only when it's closed, when it can close, or is it even when it's calm, but they're open, but they're still coming 25 or seven. So good question. So the way this will work is if the City Commission approves the airport publishes the common runway in what's known as the airport facility directory. And it's a directory that airports that pilots will see and recognize it's it's got all the information about the airport when the towers open when it's closed different things that'll even have things like you know the runway cracking or there's grass on whatever it may be and common is less than five knots so less, so say three miles an hour or less. So it could still be three miles an hour in the wind, Com. So what it does is generally, you do see Comwind runways published a lot more at uncontrolled fields, because pilots want to know what runway am I going to use. They don't all want to choose a different runway, and then that's how accidents happen. So generally wind direction will dictate what runways and use, but when the winds calm what do you do? And that's what we are trying to do is accomplish just what you said sir about the how the aircraft when they're taking off they're louder. There's not as many residents on the opposite side over the water although there's endless shores to the right, but there's nobody directly underneath that flight path when they're taking off on seven. It's just water. So what we're trying to do is encourage more flights taking off on runway seven, as opposed to on two five. Well, the air traffic controllers be designating that during calm winds, number seven during calm winds, number seven during calm winds. They may, but it isn't, so the air traffic controllers report to the FAA, not to us. So the recommendation does not apply to the air traffic controllers, just during non-operation hours. Correct. Hi, I'm Connie Spullar, we live in terror trails. And when we moved into years ago, we didn't have a clue that there was a airport near us. I mean, I feel like that signage thing is a good idea. I mean, I don't know. In California, you had to disclose any kind of a nuisance when you were selling a house. So I don't know what the laws of Florida are, but we didn't have a clue. I feel like I don't care if they're taking off in the evening as much, but I don't like being woken up in the morning. So I would like to vote for, don't fly before eight, even nine. That's, it's just horrible to be woken up when you're asleep and you can't get back to sleep. Thank you. Steve Wood, 17 County and Ham Drive in the shores. Can we go back to the diagram that, the gentleman first started was showing us about the noise impact and the contours at the airport. Generally just shows the airport in different colors. And the reason I want to do that is when you look at the diagram, it looks like the concentration of where the noise exposure is right on top of the airport, which to me that's obviously where the noise, there's going to be a lot of noise there. But what studies were done and in the study was there any consideration of going to different properties around the airport. I would suggest inlet shores as an example. You can go to my backyard right on the canal on Hunters Creek. Runway 1127 is the one that impacts us the most. But if you stand back there just like the gentleman was saying earlier, you can't operate a cell phone out there. You can't talk to your guests when the planes are coming off that runway. And then when they turn and come across you, it's even worse. And the reason that it just seems to me like the noise study looks like, yeah, it was just concentrated on the airport and it was runways. I mean, I'm gonna say it's obvious that that, to me, that was a waste of time. The noise that we're complaining about is over our homes off of the airport property. But with that being said, I suggest in about the altitude of the planes, I track a lot on flight aware on my cell phone. And a lot of the times when the planes are making their turn at the end of our subdivision, which a lot of times they'll cut short and come across the homes, they're at no more than four or five hundred feet. And we talk about a pattern altitude of 800 feet. I don't know that it's very seldom that they get up to 800 feet and if they do, it's on the, if they've come off of 11, 2, 9 and they make the turn at inlet shores, by the time they get all the way back around to the far end of our subdivision, they may have achieved that height, but it's very seldom that I see them on flight aware at that elevation. So that, to me, is a problem because we're hearing that noise at four and 500 feet. If they were at 800 feet, I could imagine it was going to be a little bit softer and it'd be a little bit, you know, more palatable. So my suggestion is, and for our community, and I hope I can speak for most of the people in the shores, when those planes carry out just another four or five seconds before they make their turn, it makes a world of difference for us, a big difference. And I can't understand, you know, been for years and years. I've been involved with this and it just seems like the graph is made, the one that the most recent one, it doesn't show the pattern that they're actually fine. If they could get out and beyond us, it makes a big difference for our community. So I would like to see if there's any way that that could be accomplished. I'd like to see if there was any noise studies or verification that there were studies in our neighborhoods and not actually at the airport property itself. I think those are two big plus. The hours of operations, I probably only have one opportunity so I'm going to go ahead and do a few more. The hours of operation, I would be a proponent for not letting an operation start till 8 o'clock. I don't see a reason why at 7 a.m. we need to be here in planes, you know, taking off in succession and the repetitiveness of it. At times, I've timed it at my backyard every 30 seconds of plane coming off that runway, but at times the noise from one clear is you've got another one coming right behind it. And I think that in most of the people in this room, you've probably experienced that at your house, and that's, in my opinion, one of the most annoying things we deal with is that repetitive, you don't get a break. Now some days are better than others, but there's several days when that's just consistent. So my input would be to look at those items there. Thank you, Steve. Thank you. Hello. I live up by Art Center Drive. And I implore you because he's exactly right. There's no planes flying at 800 feet above Art Center Drive over there. And I've sent four or five emails asking questions to the airport email. And I've never had one single response. And the jets, I'm concerned about the jets. When they take off, they're extremely loud for everybody. And the flight pattern, if you pick it back to the mild, the shows, the race track thing. Right there over Arts and the Drive, every one of those flight pattern schools over that. So I'm in kitchen all of them. And it is very low. And on Saturday mornings, there should be no problem. I'm just going to drive every one of those flight pilot schools over that. So I'm in catching all of them. And it is very low. And on Saturday mornings, there should be no planes taking off at 7 o'clock in the morning. When everybody's usually going to work during the Monday through Friday, but what about a weekend plan we don't leave to like nine? Because it's like listening to a Harley on your roof sometimes when they're coming over some of them are very loud and y'all know it and It's just annoying and there's like he said there's a bunch of them and that right there. I'm on all three of them Thank you and I'm concerned about the jets too like is that gonna be an increase and the big jets taking off? Is there a plan for them to be coming and going? I don't see. So our jet traffic is stayed somewhat the same. I mean, there's days when we get 10 jets and then there's days when we don't get any. So you're not going to get anything too big. The airport can't handle it at the present time. So the runways don't, you know, they're not long enough. So, but you would see medium size corporate jets. I'm more fear of like that activity increasing, you know. Yeah, it's hard to say at this point we don't see that much of an increase. And even if you did have a few more, it's not as noticeable, it's not like you're going to see the kind of activity from a jet that you're seeing from a piston engineer craft. And they don't fly the same pattern either. They usually fly in and land or take off and they're gone. If you, if one of you would go, like he said, and do a neighborhood thing, not the airport, but go to sunset and arts and a drive, Just park right there and just sit there for an hour and you'll see they don't fly 800 feet. At all. I wanna make sure we get your contact info to make sure we do follow up with you. So. So you have to stay the same. Stay the same on my. Troy, Troy, Johnson. Tammy, could you get his contact, please, thank you. Thank you. Tammy, could you get his contact? Please, thank you. I think since Tim already spoke. Okay. Please speak as a citizen. I'm speaking as a citizen. Okay. Can I? Yeah, you speak as a staff, right? Is this gonna be an argument over? No, no, no, no, no, no. Just curious, when you guys bought your land or had your, you bought your houses, how many of your realtors disclosed to you that you were going to be moving in next to an airport? Just to show a hands. Okay. Many years ago, we were going through the same thing and we were going to make it a recommendation to the City Commission and I was in the audience that realtors had to disclose that people were be moving in towards an airport or near an airport. And there were two realtors, husband and wife that live in Fair Green that sell a lot of houses, and they said we will never do that. So there needs to be disclosure. So you guys know where you're moving, whether you're moving next to a railroad track, US one, an airport, but there needs to be disclosure. That's all I got. Gary Norville, 2085 Maltese. Good evening. My name's Eric Olsen. I'm at 51 Ken and Ham Drive. I recently moved in. I knew the airport was there because I, full disclosure, I have an airplane and I fly out of New Sumerna. On the way here, I have an airplane and I fly out of New Sumerna. On the way here, I realized that my entire life, I've lived next to an airport in the land, the fly-in and now, New Sumerna. But I totally understand where my neighbors have talked to me about it. I've told them I fly planes, and but I understand where they're not doing that You know, they're turning I mean they're literally turning at your house and right over mine So that's something that I'd love to see you guys do a study and what should be pretty simple to do is see where do they turn? That's not a often, but certain times of the year, they're gonna use it. Runway seven is the most popular, because that's our wind. Every airport in our area has runway seven and two five. They toned it to two mile airport is seven and two five. They land on that 24-7. That's not gonna change. That's gonna be the predominant runway all the time. And then when you, you know, two five's going to be, you know, spring and early summer and then in the winter and fall, it's going to be runway seven. But I didn't understand when they did the noise of atemist study, did they just do the airport? They do the surrounding areas. So I can let Mike tell you a little bit about how they model it now, though they don't put, I'll let you. Yeah, we look 30,000 feet from each runway end with the flight tracks we develop, but ultimately we do modeling. So we're looking at calculating noise exposure at an infant number of points as part of that effort. Okay. And does the airport or the city do a study to find out where the traffic patterns are actually being used? I saw one the other day that was turning at probably 400 feet and turning probably within a quarter mile of the end of the runway, which isn't the pattern, but I have also flown numerous times for years at a news from Irina where ATC tells me turn as soon as possible. So a lot of times you're going to have guys that are going by what they're told to do. So they're not blatantly trying to break the rule of not going to the sand pit, but they're being told by ATC, turn as soon as possible because off the runway, someone else is there. So they're going to control them and turn them early. But I'm wondering if you guys do a study to see who is maintaining traffic patterns accurately. And if you can disclose that in a future meeting to see, are people, you know, when is that rule being broken? Like you did with the epic guy that 22 times in June, he was breaking the rules and got fired. And my last one, I mean, you don't have to answer it now, I know hopefully you'll be able to study that in the future. But the last one is there are hundreds of thousands of flight planes flying across our area. Florida is the best state because there's so many airports and it's flat and we can land safely in this entire state of Florida. It's extremely important there to allow to do that. It's going to happen. They're going to train and they're going to do it. Daytona has four schools with probably 600 planes. I would bet to say there's as many planes landing in New Stamirna than Epic, right? But they're all over. I mean, they're everywhere. I get a Palm Beach. I mean, everywhere I fly, there's at least one or two schools with 100 planes, so it's not going to change. Can't say it's going to get bigger and better, because I think there's only so many places those guys are going to go to work. But it's going to, New Summers are great location. Everybody wants to be here. But with that, you know, there's, are you able to send that information to the other flight schools like Embry Riddle, you know, the ones in Daytona to do like, I'm sure Epic is following through with your rules. I'm sure they're trying to be accommodating. I'm assuming they are, sounded like you were happy with what they were doing. Are you able to give that same information to the surrounding school so they know the rules that you're trying to abide by here so that you can kind of have a little better control over that? Good question and we do just to answer your question. So, we didn't for the sake of time. I didn't bring up all the reports that we do on a monthly basis but we'll, we could put those up on our website. No, we could share them in the next advisory board meeting. That's one of the things that we review. Every time we have an advisory board meeting as we review noise. So we work with the major schools, Emery Rittle, Epic, C-A-T-P, Phoenix East, and I miss it on Air America. So those are the ones that you'll see the most in New Samaritan. And then you get other ones here and there just just pop up. So on the few, you know, on the ones in twos, it's whack them all. But on the big schools, we have their attention or they have, you know, we have a good relationship with them, not as tight as we have with Epic. We have software that we use called vertower. A vertower is using ADSV, so it's using data from the airplane in real time. It knows exactly where that plane is. The vertical data on it is not as accurate as the lateral. So we know fixed point, GPS, we know where that aircraft flew. So one of the things we've done is we've established geofences in some areas. So we can see how many times an airplane go through that area. So we're using that as a compliance tool. So where we go every, you know, so often if there's something that happened the night before, we're addressing it right away. But then we also address it monthly. Like here's your data. So I go to Emery Riddle, the chief pilot, Ivan. He's been there forever. We thought, hey, we had an issue. OK, had a new student. I don't know. I think last count, they have like 400 flight instructors. So this is a massive university. So there's going to, there's slipups here and there. And you brought up a good point. A lot of times when we see somebody that turned right over the community, it's because they were told to. And we review those, we go back and we listen to those tapes. And did they, were they told, were they on a checkride? Sometimes the checkride requires them to do what's known as a short approach. And they have to, unfortunately, fly over, It's required, they'll fail the check right. So there's a lot of layers to it, it's complex. But what we're doing is we're engaging with people on a regular basis building those relationships. But it doesn't appear that way, because we still have a lot of times when it's frustrating. And I get that. So sorry, to be long with it. Yeah, it's only recent. Yes, right. The only ones for the park, I think. Yeah. You're just now at the weekend. Hello, my name is Kathy Feinum. I live at Turnbull Estates. And my question is, the airport is how big? I mean, it's not a very large airport. It was how big? I mean, it's not a very large airport. It was how big is it? So the airport property itself is 700 acres. The longest runway is less than 5,000 feet. They're all about that length, they're a little shorter. So no, it's not a very big airport in terms of comparing to even Daytona. You know, is, they have a 10,000 foot runway. So they have a larger area. So as an example, I owned a restaurant, and we were only allowed to have 48 seats. And we got real popular. Well, I couldn't just bring more chairs in. You know, I had to go get another bigger building. So my question is, is there a cap for our airport as far as traffic? I mean, at some point, maybe it's, I know the schools love our location, but at the end of the day, is there a cap? So, great question. So, that's one of the day is there a cap. So great question. So that's one of the benefits of having a tower. If you're listening to the frequency on any given day, especially when it's busier, they turn aircraft away all the time. They'll just say patterns full. Call us back later. Call us back later. When you go to other airports, uncontrolled airports, such as Dilan, not to throw a Dilan under the bus, but they don't have a tower, and it can be chaos on any given day over there. You've got planes just coming in from everywhere, and they're on their own. They are transmitting on a frequency, but you have no person to say, hey, that's enough. You have no gate, if you will. We also will potentially at some point do a capacity study where that's really to determine how many operations do we have, how are runways doing, we have a runway that's needing work, but it's currently not funded by the FAA. So we're looking at a very large bill to rehabilitate that runway about $10 million. And I want to point out that the airport is so-funded, so it's not part of the general fund. So when we go to do a runway, that's not your tax dollars at work. So that is paid for by grants and grants comes with strings that we have to continue to operate the airport. So anyway, a lot of layers I won't go on and on but just want to point that out. And to the point about the flight schools and with epic being 85 plus percent of our traffic, it is important for us to have their relationship with them. They are not the enemy. They do their best. You know at the same time we're going to do what we can to make sure that we're watching them on your behalf and we're representing you. But at the same time we want to represent them because they are a good business for the community. They bring a lot of economic value, but they do listen to us. These other flight schools, the Inverriddles, the Air Americas, and so forth, we don't have, they can just ignore what we ask of them, not to say that they will, they do try to listen, but the end of the day, we don't have the same relationship with that pick. That's why Epox is not the enemy per se, now they're gonna get a lot flack. But we do have a good relationship, like I said, we wanna represent them and we wanna represent you when we're talking with them. And so I think it's just important to note that it's good to have them be most of the operations because we do have that relationship and they do their best to try and adhere to the procedures we have in place. Can Rolla, 1215 Williams Road near Terra Trales. This is the first time I've been able to come to these meetings because I recently retired and prior to that, I was just way too busy. But I have been here 24 years back before the airport was very large as far as traffic goes. I did my due diligence. I went to the planning department in in the land. I studied the area. I knew I was moving in close to an airport. It didn't concern me because number one, I love aviation. I have friends that graduate from memory riddle pilots and engineers. So the sound of airplanes doesn't bother me generally. But at 7 a.m. it sure as heck does, when I get a repetitive flight coming over and over and over again over my house, which happens quite often. And so my request is to move the time in the morning to 9 a.m., not 8 a.m., not 7 a.m., but 9 a.m., like any other business. And then in the evening, I also very often get repetitive flights in the evening around 9 p.m. over and over and over again. And I'm trying to enjoy my house and rest and relax. And I've got flights constantly flying over my house starting around 9 a.m. and it seems to be, I don't know if they're using my house as a landmark or what. But they fly right over my house repetitively over and over and over and over again. So yeah, that I think that should be limited to 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. somewhere around there. Thank you. Cindy Radigan. I live on Scarlett Trail and Territoryl. We've been here over 20 years ourselves. And we did our due diligence. We asked everybody, we asked the realtors, we asked the neighbors, we went around and talked with everybody in this area to find out what kind of traffic happened here at this airport. Everybody said, oh, it's just quite sleepy little town. We just got our local pilots. Well, that's great. I grew up in New England around many different airports and never had a problem with flight training. Never had it. It was never an issue. We had no idea. We were not informed that there was going to be a tower put on the airport a year after we bought and then suddenly this airport was turned into a flight training facility. I mean truly there are usually six give or take I Turn around planes that come in and out of this airport on a regular basis that are non-flight training, you know, related. All other planes coming in and out of this airport are related to flight training because it's either epic or embryo or phoenixes or any one of the number of flight schools in the area. We have on average, according to your own figures, somewhere between 170 and 180,000 operations per year. That means that we're getting on average 80 to 90,000 takeoffs over our homes. When you average that out to the number of days, you're talking 550 to 650 takeoffs over our homes when you average that out to the number of days you're talking 550 to 650 takeoffs over our homes per day Excluding five holidays out of the year, you know A little bit of a rest on Sunday and I strongly recommend that you know Not everybody celebrates the Sabbath on Sunday. There's a lot of people celebrate their Sabbath on Saturday. I think everybody deserves a two-day weekend rest from that nuisance and that aggravation. So I highly recommend that they include Saturdays along with Sundays as a break from flight training. And absolutely nothing before 9 a.m. Since, I mean, I've been going to the airport advisory board meetings lately to hear what is been going on, but as a lot of changes have been being experimented with lately, we're getting planes taken off at 6.30 in the morning and they're taken off and turning right over our house to go south. We've got touching ghosts starting at 7 a.m. It's absurd. Last night there were planes still taken off over my house at 12.30 this morning. I mean, it's ridiculous. There's just basically, Embry Roodle and Epic Aviation and all the flight schools in this area need to learn to be a better neighbor. We live here. They need to take us the residents into consideration. This is drivers at overhead. I mean, these people are learning how to fly a plane over our homes. It is a safety issue for all of us. And the noise is, it's insane. And when you've got 550 to 650 planes a day over your house, a plane every 30 seconds, it's insanity. It drives you mad. I mean, they're just gonna take into a little more consideration that we live here. We work here. There's a lot of us that are working from our homes or we're retired. You know, it's like, that's just, that doesn't make any sense. So I don't understand. And maybe you can explain it to me again. I didn't quite catch what the safety issue is with designating a calm wind runway to take off out over the water. Why can't they take off seven? Why can't they take off two out over the water out over the bay? How can that pose a safety issue? What differences are they going east or west? Let them go out over the water instead of our homes. What was the issue with that? No, there was no issue with that. I have a couple more. Okay. You want me to wait until the end? No, go ahead. I wanted that answer before I get to that. Yeah, so that, actually there was no safety issue with that. The runway seven is the runway that we're recommending to be a common runway. Okay, very good. But when the tower is closed. But not, but we're asking for it to be all day, not just when the tower is closed. I mean, because the tower opens at 7 a.m. doesn't mean that all of a sudden, oh, well, we're going to turn it around and use runway 25. It's the runway that's been used primarily as a common runway and as a preferred runway since the tower was put on that field. It's been the same and that's what the argument has been and why there's been so much you know, of an issue. So I recommend that it be 24-7. And at night, when the tower closes at 10 p.m., I'd like to see that the patterns that we're putting in place for noise abatement don't suddenly get thrown out the window and now they all have to take left-hand turns off of every run-by because if they're using 2, 5 at night, that takes them off and puts them right over top of our home every night. And they're turning right over the top of us. That's like right on top of us. And most of them are only 250 to 350 feet above the roof of our house. It's crazy. A lot is happening regularly. So those were the main things. And the other one that I'd still like to recommend, and it has been shared with me, but I can't remember the name of the community down in South Florida when the flight training got to be so excessive that the residents were being so heavily impacted. They put training strips out west of the heavy residential area. For the life of me, I can't remember the name of the community. Yes, there you go. Thank you very much. Opalaka, why can't we do the same thing here? We have so many schools that are training here. There's so many flight, you know, I mean that's a lot of flight training in a day. Why can't we put with the cooperation of the county and land use that would be appropriate, put some flight training strips out west along with the assistance of Embry Riddle who's got very deep pockets. And a lot of other aeronautical or aviation connected associations that have money that would assist in putting those flight strips out west for specifically flight training to get the heavy usage off of our homes. Just a big suggestion once again. Thank you. Thank you, Cindy. Hi, I'm Annette Taylor, 87 Cunningham. I appreciate the reduced repetitiveness you're suggesting. But if that is per plane, it seems like, and it seems to be a common thread of concern, is just reducing the overall frequency that the planes are allowed to take off and land. If one plane can only do it every so often, but yet 10 seconds behind that plane is another plane, that doesn't really solve our issues. And also, I know the airport was probably there long before the developments but the developments have been there before epic. And I look at epic as the toddler who's always going to push the limits and do as much as they can. But I think that the residents who have been there for 10, 20, 30 years should have an overwhelming say on their weekends. And I love the idea of reducing the hours on the weekdays. I love the idea from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. And just like any other business that Saturday, the flight schools are not there. Or very, very few hours. But on the weekends, you can't go outside and enjoy anything. And even though we don't hear a lot of it, it amazes me how many planes cut right over our homes and I wish there were tail numbers that I could see that I could track. I don't do any fun apps, but if they were to, I mean inlet shores were actually quite lucky if they do extend out and around, but the number of planes that don't is actually quite surprising so thank you. Thank you. Also as a note if you do have those complaints or you have any safety concerns you can email us at noise at cityofnsb.com and meet with you after we give you a card also you can submit a complaint to the or a comment to the noise page at the very bottom there's a comment form So that helps us kind of track these we do have software for that Thank you My name's Rebecca and I've been here for over 30 years. The airport played a major role when I did move here because it was small and I stopped in one day and was just talking to them about the area. And when I did, the pilot offered to take me out. He said, if you're going to buy a property in Florida, you absolutely need to fly over it first. So we did, and he was right. He showed me a lot of things, years, pockets of water, in places that you can't see from the ground. And when you view those from the air, you do. The airport has changed dramatically in those 30 years. I live on Willard Street and I just sold my property on Willard Street. I moved to another area with the airport but I've been here so long and I've been attending some of the meetings. I spoke with you briefly before and you told me you work for the city basically. On the wall right here is your values as the city, integrity, teamwork, communication and accountability. As a community that's part of what we're looking for. The communication has huge gaps in it. A lot of times we don't know about a meeting until it's too late for us to make a plan to come. And the accountability doesn't seem to be there anywhere. I'm in agreement absolutely. It needs to have hours set of operations. And when you have a community that has so many people home, either working from home or retired, we can't use our phones in our houses. Most of us, we have to step outside for our cell phone. Soon as we do, when the tower cranks up, our call's dropped. It makes it very difficult for us to have a business in the area or a working relationship that we need our phone to work with. And so I really think we need to put a true time schedule together. And I have one question that I don't understand yet. What is the jet traffic? and I have one question that I don't understand yet. What is the jet traffic? I understand we got flight schools and stuff, but surely the jets are not training here. So what is our jet traffic that's going? So generally what you'd see is perhaps a military aircraft, occasionally you'll get like Coast Guard, we'll fly helicopters. For jet, the majority of jets we would get are for corporations. So if somebody's coming in and they own a corporation, so it's for leisure, it's for business. So who's- So we're sighing a small jet, so aircraft that could land on that, not they're not doing flight training now. Okay. So my second question is who is our nighttime traffic? Night time traffic could be generally when you see flight training occasionally you'll have somebody come in who's on a cross-country. They're flying somewhere across the country, across Florida and they need fuel. So they'll stop in for fuel. You generally don't see much traffic after 10 o'clock is usually when the traffic dies down quite a bit because there's no tower open. But the airport is open 24 hours a day, and it's a public use airport. So that's where the challenge lies. And as far as telling somebody they cannot use it It's it's against the law actually to do that and I have one last question Does anybody at all that's on the staff live in a neighborhood affected by the noise? Okay, do you guys share the same concerns we do or do you have a totally different outlook on it? Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to go to the next slide. Dawn Whiteley, 2071, Marsh Harbor Drive. I've been following most of what's been going on for the last year and a half. I have a couple things one One question in regard to epic flight planes. Is there some kind of mufflers? Are there mufflers that can be put on the airplanes like there are for cars to create less noise? And that's, you know, regardless of all the details, are there mufflers? I can answer. You want me to wait till the end of your other. No, go ahead to that. So, yes. So, Emory Riddle, who is not only has a flight school, but they have, you know, they're one of the largest or the largest they're not at a university in the world. So, they always like to be on the cutting edge. So years ago they tested out mufflers on their trading aircraft and they had multiple engine failures. And they tell us they will not put mufflers on their aircraft anymore. I'm not familiar with anybody else putting mufflers on it, but a lot of what you're hearing is not the engine, a lot of times what you're hearing, the noise is actually from the propeller. The propeller biting through the air, it's going around at such a speed, that's what that buzzing noise is coming from. The engine is not as loud, but the propeller is what is making most of the noise. And now they are working, yeah. You should have speed sound. Right, so. Just should have speed sound. I'm proud of this. Thank you. Right, so they. Now, Jacob was involved in with at Emory Rittle with some different program. So he could probably speak more articulately about this. But I know that there have been designs to try to get that noise level down, but everything takes so much time with the FAA because you have to test it, you have to evaluate, you have to get it like so. Answer your question, no mufflers, they don't seem to be, they don't have to have that, they don't have that much of an impact. Okay, okay, thank you. Thank you. My second observance is that we have accomplished one thing and that's awareness. And we are all working together to make people aware. I'm encouraged by that. And I'm encouraged by discussions at every board meeting. I feel good about that. I've heard discretion, discretion a lot from the controller side where the airport controllers maybe they could be more discretionary on noise just to be good to neighbors. You know, just to put that at top of mind as well as the flight school is working with that. But again, the more discretion that they use for the benefit of those of us down below, the happier everybody's going to be. And, you know, we all know it doesn't. You have to come together to make anything good happen. And my last point is it does concern me in regard to resale of our homes because there has not been, nor I've been, we've been my husband and I've been there for 10 years. And we, you know, yes, you could see the airport, but it has changed so much. And again, we were not notified of any of that with our realtor. I would really like to have that changed and that have the people coming in. I know maybe you have to just take them and say look there's an airport right there. But bottom line is is that they're going to be dealing with that on one side or the other. Thank you very much for your time and for putting this together tonight. It's been very beneficial. My name is Denise NATO. I live on Brookline Avenue 2719. Since I moved here three years ago, it's been like a nightmare. I have one of the most beautiful houses on Brookline in the highest taxes. And I have all this noise over head. I was in another state. The state was a very small airport. There's a difference between a flight school and an airport because it's not every other minute. You don't have the planes turning off their engine and it's never a thousand feet up. Pop, pop, pop. You're hoping it's going to start up and everything else. It's constant. Now, they told me when I built my house, I don't have to have a two by six construction. I don't have to have a two by six construction. I don't have to have this or that. You're in an area you don't need hurricane windows. Thank the Lord that I put in the best insulation in my ceiling. My walls are two by six. I have foam. I have a hurricane windows. And I still hear it. Now if the city wants to keep doing this, why don't they help the people that all these planes are going over, give them new windows, help them with insulation so they can live under this in some sort of peace, because right now it's a nightmare. And I wish I hadn't known, because would I have built the nicest house that you could build? No, not in this area. I know it in airport. I know what a small airport is. My father lived next to one, but I didn't realize it was a flight school with more planes than any other flight school by the looks of that list. And it has to change as far as the timing and its constant. And it's annoying and it's really, really not healthy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Debbie Ryder. I live at 18 Cunningham Drive and I've been there 45 years. You know, to say, when I moved in, there was no fight school. I agree with everything that's being said here at the safety because it's a constant noise battle. And not just in the early mornings, but I've sent complaints about flights coming directly over my house at 11 at midnight and later. And that's ridiculous. I guess one of the questions I do have is, so what does our community get from having the flight school there? Who's making money from? Is the city getting any money from that flight school? Are they giving money to the community in any way, shape or form? Yes, so the good question. So there was an economic impact study that was done two years ago and shows that the Economic impact from the airport is about $241 million a year epic is a portion of that of not all So they do pay the airport so the airport is a separate fund. They don't pay the city directly They pay the airport itself which is owned by the city But the airport receives revenue from them in the form of rent and fuel sales. So what improvements happen to our community because of the money that comes in from the noise that we're putting up with? I'm not aware of anything. Nothing. Also, I do try to use flight aware whenever something comes over and I'm trying to see who it is, etc. And a lot of times, flight aware is totally incorrect. It won't even show, like for instance, I could literally see it over the top of my house and it's showing it off in the other direction. So it's not correct. I can get your contact information. I can provide you a better tool. Not to downplay flight aware, but there's a lag time in it. There's other tools out there that are more accurate and instant time. So the other thing is that at one of the other meetings that we had, there was a gentleman that was at the meeting and I brought up when you had the thing at the what used to be the library. The Brandon center I guess it is and where you can walk around and see everything and I brought up then because the question was Was the amount of lead that's coming from the fuel from the planes? There was a concern about that was anything done or studied about that? I think the FAA for my knowledge there they have been looking at that I don't know where they're at in that process, but that's that's something that's being studied now Yeah, they're? The FAA. It's locally here for us. For the country as a whole. This is a concern that is nationwide. So when we did the study though, was that part of our study? It was not. No. Okay. And I guess the other question, there was one about the jets. Do they have a different flight pattern than the schools? Yes. Generally, jets will come in and land. They won't stay in the pattern. That's something that's usually slower aircraft do. If jets are going to stay in the pattern, which is rare, they fly higher and farther out because they're going faster. So typically, what you'll see a jet do is they'll come in, they'll come in directly. Daytona, you usually handling them Daytona's airspace and then they hand them off to New Samaritan at some point. But they'll just come in and land and stop and they're done till they get fuel or maybe the next day or three days or whatever and then they'll leave or vice versa. It's usually a straight-in departure or straight-in approach. So the last statement I guess I want to make and is in reference to safety for sure. You know, like you're talking about, these people are learning how to fly a plane over the top of our houses. And I mean, we wouldn't want a school that's teaching someone to learn how to drive a car doing it through our neighborhood. You know, the same type of scenario. We just had a horrendous accident at the it through our neighborhood. You know, the same type of scenario. We just had a horrendous accident at the entrance to our community. Worth three people were killed. And we sure as heck don't need to have something happen where one of those planes or one of the people that's in the planes learning how to fly, you know, because they're coming over communities that have people that live every day. I mean, I really think that I think the city needs to take our concern seriously. I don't think they are. I really don't. And I think that if we're not making anything, what's the purpose? What's the reasoning behind the flight schools? If they're not, flight schools are not giving back to us as a community? We're giving up a lot of our of us. We're giving up a lot. Where are they giving? To your point about epic as far as They you're gonna have a better economic impact for our city than other flight schools or it's same with other businesses because of the employees that live here and spend money. And that's as well as the students they bring in each and every year are going to have an impact to the community. And then they do have some community events that they put on. And much like the other businesses they try to, and we try to, we want to promote that so that there is some other community attachment for the airport and for the businesses, for them to give back to the community. Unlike the other flight schools where they just come in fly land and leave, they don't really provide us much, but epic does and then like again, for much of our other businesses, Baker Aviation, American Arrow and so forth, they do provide some things for us. And if you wanna, I know that we've emailed before, and if you wanna email us again, I'd be happy to provide you more extensive lists. So, us being new smart of each. Do you work for the city? I do not. No, I work for the city. Well, I work for the city of Missouri Beach. And I try to represent you as well when we are in discussions with them or the flight schools or our businesses that deal with the noise. So I'm trying to understand just have one bit late because I have a job. What is your job? Oh, okay, I'm sorry. Yep, my dismissal. I'm Jacob Kosette on the assistant airport manager for the city News and Murder Beach and I work with Arvin and Tammy on a daily basis. I think we're having a year or four tomorrow to the money that comes from that big, that big support to the airport. So I don't see every now and then they have something for their students. But I don't see them doing the community. I've never seen them at a community of an university on the canal. Or any community that's supporting any local community activities. They do backpack drives and different things of that nature. Like I said, I can get it in more extensive list list but as far as the the school itself you know they they to pay into the airport that's correct and the airport we pay for services from the city and that's where the city gets you know a good impact from the airport itself where the city gets paid because we purchase essentially or we we we have services done by the city, city, staff, and so forth that we pay for from the airport. I just want you to know that it sounds like you're representing Epic in that representing the people that are here. OK. Just so you know, that's how you set it. You said you have an economic development study in the airport, where you do that. Yes. I'm clear. So there yeah, yeah 241 that's the total airport the . . . . . . . . . . . . . Connie's Polarkin, 1391 Scarlet Trail. As I'm sitting here listening, and I don't know how long these meetings have been going on. This is the first one that we were notified about to attend. I guess I would like to tell and forgive me if I sound like I'm showing, I don't know, skepticism or enmity, but what are the chances really that you'll limit the hours, like nine o'clock in the morning till nine o'clock at night? What are the chances that you really might do that? Well, so I'm the airport manager, so my role is to make recommendations along with the advisory board so that it's not just one person saying this is how it's going to be. So we're going to take your input, the other, all the other, put everything together to some total of all of it. And I don't know this to answer your question. I don't know what those odds are. But what I can tell you is the voluntary noise abatement, no matter what we do with it, it's still voluntary. So I can say, okay, nine o'clock is the time. And if the users can't do that for whatever reason, whether that's required, that's not anything that we can enforce. So our best chance is to continue to work together That's not anything that we can enforce. So our best chance is to continue to work together hearing what you have to say, hearing what our users need, put it all together and coming up with a solution. It's not going to be, there's no magic wand. I'm just being open as Canada as I can with you. There's no magic wand that we're going to wave and it's just poof, it's going to be gone. But what we can do is what we have been doing. For the past year and a half, this education with our pilots, we have seen trends go down. That may not be noticeable or make a meaningful impact to you, which is why we're here tonight to see what other ideas you have. We want to listen and hear them. But I can't forecast that. I can't forecast exactly what we're going to do without having those internal discussions with the advisors, with the advisory board, with our experts. OK. Well, when you say that, these discussions, I'm just wondering, will you even make a good faith effort to negotiate with Epic to limit their hours? I'm going to address that specific location. But, right? She's asking the question. She's asking the same question over a row. She's not coming. You're going to watch here. Listen. Listen. You're going to watch here. Listen. Don't be. She's not coming. Listen. I'm going to address the... No, it's all right. It's okay. Don't worry about it. It's okay, listen, listen. All I'm trying to say is, Arvin can't answer that question. He did the best he could. And I'm going to address that issue. And what I wanted to do was just stop the dialogue because it wasn't going anywhere and let her know that I'm going to address that specific issue in conclusion. Point her. I'll address that issue in conclusion. That's not an easy answer. And I didn't feel that the conversation was going in a positive direction. Understand? Any other questions? What, ma'am? Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Just kind of in to wrap things up and I know you've taken a lot of notes of there I was watching you the whole time and do you think there's a possibility before we leave here tonight you can kind of hit the bullet point of maybe the general the number of things that we've all we've all kind of brought up a similar round of questions. And it would be helpful for me when I leave here to know what things that were the most obvious from the group and what things look like you guys might be able to take a stab at because quite frankly, I've been coming to the meetings for a long time. I've been involved in this for over six years now, trying to get things changed and what's going on with the flight schools. Quite frankly, we've made some progress, but not enough. So I think it's obvious in the room that there's a lot that can be done. And I think you as a city manager, the city of you, the city of New Sumerna manages that airport and the thing that has bothered me for the longest time, if you manage the airport, why can't you manage it? I mean, why can't you get things done when you wanna, you know, why can't you change the hours of operation, you know? Epic is a business. They're like, should be treated like any other business in this city. There's hours of operation. And there's things that they're doing that's causing a lot of grief from people's lives. So as a city, and you folks working for the citizens of this town, to me, you ought to be doing as much as possible. And that's all we ask in this framework. Thanks, Steve. Hi. I'm Deb Mangado. I live on Sunset Drive and we moved here in 1979. So we've seen the changes at the airport and the noise increase. It's not been fun, but we love our neighborhood. We love New Sumerna Beach has a lot of qualities. My question is about the signage. And I understand that people want to know when they move next to the airport that they should know about that. But I'd like a little more information about what the signs would look like and how that might negatively affect our home values. So I might let you. At some of that information, we have not actually really studied to see, I don't think we have that answer yet, but that's something that's being looked at, and ultimately would be a city commission decision. Just that issue included too. I have a number of notes, I'm good, good. I have only one question. How long is your lease with the city? How long? your lease with the city? How long? How many years? With the airport itself? It's perpetuity. The city has ownership of the airport. So the airport was the airport land was given at some point before World War II to the war assets department and they used it to the war assets department. And they used it during the war. They deeded it back to the city in 47 on the condition that it would continue to be used as a public use airport and perpetuity. So there is no end date. Oh, the question was because I am a member of the VFW and they have a hundred year lease with the city and I was just wondering if you had anything the same. Oh, no. Okay, anyone else? My name is Mark Ruth. I'm at 2711 Brookline. These guys are actually my neighbors. And the airplanes come, I'm all for business. I like the airplanes, the airport, flown out a few times, met the owners of Epic and actually went, was going to do some flight training and stuff. But anyway, I built the house. I mean, I moved in about three years ago and it's definitely, I've noticed a big difference from three years ago to now. I'm sorry. Thank you. And I moved in about three years ago and I noticed a big difference between three years ago and I noticed a big difference between three years ago and now and especially like I got up the other day a little bit before seven o'clock in the morning and I can read the town numbers off of the airplanes and as soon as they go crossed like rate or rate of our houses as soon as they go across there. What did they do? Why they backfires? That's some sort of thing where they, because you can tell they turn their throttle completely off and their throttle goes down and then you just hear a series of poppings and it sounds like gunshots, like fires. Yeah, I can address that. So when any of the aircraft that when they just drop power like that and they're just pulling the throttle back to idle, they're not turning the engines off. They're pulling back to idle. If they pull it back too quickly the way the carburetor is working much like an old car. Because all of a sudden we'll have too much fuel and on a fair and then it'll burn out through the exhaust creating that popping noise. So why can't they wait another 500 feet where they're clear of all the houses? I mean, these planes are only 200 feet above my house. Yeah, generally what happens is if, especially on a check ride, or if they're doing a specific task for their flight training, they'll be on a certain part of the airport near the terminal environment and the instructor or DPE, which is a pilot examiner for the FAA, will pull the engine to test the student's ability to get back to the runway in a manageable time with obviously still power available if they need it. So that way it's not unsafe to you. So that way it makes it so that the pilot better understands how to manage their gliding. So that way if they actually did have that kind of emergency, they'd be able to get back to the runway. So they have to do it at a certain time? It's usually something of the instructor dictates within the pattern or the DPE based on whatever tasks they're trying to complete. So that would be my main concern, like seven o'clock to eight o'clock in the morning, them backfiring or whatever, whatever causesclock in the morning, then backfire or whatever, whatever causes them to be the backfire. Sure. And the FAA does have an area or the federal government rather, it's not the FAA, but the federal government does have an area where if you feel like there's a safety concern, you can make a report. But otherwise, or if you want to make a suggestion to the FAA, there's avenues for that. But as far as operationally speaking, for how the aircraft operate. Okay. So Jacob is not only the assistant airport manager, but he's also a commercially rated pilot and an aircraft mechanic. So that's why you can jump in on some of these technical questions. It is a 20 year lease and it gets renewed every five years. So every five years you can get a chance to do the change times. Did you have the ability to work with Epic? Well, I think we'll address that at the end there. Is there anything that's happening? I just have a question. I just have a question. Could we have a representative from Epic and Embry Riddle to sit in and help field some of the questions, not an argument, or anything like that. But some direct communication that they may not be aware of, just a question, that's all. Okay, thank you. We have a representative from Epic here, so I was waiting to see if he raised his hand. Hello, good evening everyone. My name is Shane Williams. I'm the director of flight operations for Epic Flight Academy. First off, I just want to say it's an honor to be here. I'm happy to be here to be able to be a part of this process. Myself, Arvin, Jacob, McGurk, kind of all around the table, everyone on the airport advisory board meeting or team, excuse me. We've been at this now for what a year and there are almost 36 months, 38, 40 months now. We've been collecting a lot of data. We've been doing a lot of things behind the scenes that you guys may or may not be aware of. I myself have never missed one of the airport advisory board meetings. I'm always a little bit sad. There's usually three, four, maybe five people at the max that I've ever seen show up to those airport advisory board meetings. We've gone to great extents since this is really flared up recently in the past 24 months or so. Sitting here next to me, his name is Ryan Grohl. He's actually our noise abatement officer. His only job is to review, like Arvin mentioned, some of those geofenses that are built in the Vertauer software that the airport has started using. Any time that something is flagged as not doing what it should have, he will look into it, right? He will listen to whether it's 30 minutes an hour however long it takes to listen to the ATC tapes To verify was it ATC instruction was it a safety of flight issue was it the pilots fault so on and so forth to get to the route Of what it was like Arvins mentioned unfortunately I've had to terminate many instructors for failure to comply epic has maintained and will continue to maintain those voluntary procedures as a mandatory company policy. It's not a for debate and it's, I've literally let students and instructors go for failure to follow that. We've taken very strict steps. We've created a very good process to continue to, you know, battle these things. It is tough. Just like Arvin was mentioning, it's a school. So the students that come in, and they start their flight training, they start, and they finish. They're only here about nine to 12 months. And after that, it's a whole new wave of students and or instructors that come through the school. So it is challenging, and it's something that's always gonna be ongoing. But I do feel, and I think a lot of people in the room can attest, we've made some good improvements. It's not perfect, it's not where, obviously, where we want it to be. But I just want everyone here to know that Epic is a part of this process, and we are here to continue to try to help the process. Education is a very, very big part of this and trying to just educate why we do some things kind of like you were mentioning if we were able to answer some of the questions and things like that. I heard one of the common things I heard is the flight radars or the flight trackers or these third party apps that you can use on phones. Just be very careful. Sometimes they can be very largely inconsistent and not accurate. We have inside of our aircraft data cards. So just like a black box on a big American Airlines plane, we have those in our aircraft as well. We can plug that into software. It creates a three-dimensional flight path, altitudes, latitude, longitude, kind of every single thing, just like a black box would. They're incredibly accurate, and they're always inspected. If gosh forbid something were to happen to one of our students and our instructors, this is the equipment we would be handing to the NTSB and to the FAA for them to conduct their investigation on that fatality. So it's incredibly accurate. Always have no issues whatsoever. I'm sure Arvin has contacted several times throughout the weeks. If you guys see something you feel is unsafe, if you're able to get that tail number, a tail number and a timestamp is the best thing for me. He can relay that stuff to me and I can go and look at these data cards and check to see if something was improper or not. But I just really want to reinforce that we are here to try to help this issue. We're completely open to education and listening and trying to make things better. So thank you for your time everyone. Thank you Shane. So this is two hours at this point. What I would like to do is is there anybody who hasn't spoken or are you going to is anybody want to say something that hasn't been said because what I want to do is okay I'm going to Mr. Radigan you're going to be the final person okay. All right um yes I live in Territraels. Wish you just west of the airport. One of the things I've noticed is the planes, when they fly to the east, they, a lot of them, are turning just on the other side of US one. They're not flying out over the water at all. But when you go west, I mean, I live over a mile to the west off the end of that runway. And they're turning over my house. They're coming way out there. And I guess it's because the city people are being protected and they're flying over the county out there. So I don't know, that might be a part of the reason. The city does have proprietors exemption through the FAA to regulate the airport and to regulate the schools. They do have the right to do that. The FAA also has grants and money available for people to replace windows and insulate their homes. A lot of people don't take the time to look into this stuff. We went around neighborhoods and we've got pages of signatures from people that just don't want to take the time to come in because they don't feel like you guys are going to do anything for the public because everybody on that board has a bias for the businesses of the airport. There's nobody there speaking up for the residents. And a couple of things that have come up were the late night flights and the you know some of the patterns of the planes. There's six and seven planes in one pattern going around and they're one right after the other, is at our house, they don't even, the noise from one doesn't even get out of your hearing range before another one's right there. So you're listening to it all the time. Something's gotta be done with, I'm sorry about the flight school, but that is the whole point. It's the flight schools. The airport has to stay open 24-7. And yeah, for regular traffic and anybody that's flying cross country or coming into business and what have you. But it's the schools that are the nuisance. A runway out west, one or two runways out west, it's going to rile the people up that have farms and live out there. I don't know that they're ever going to find a happy place to be, but you know there's got to be a limit to it. New Sumerna Beach is a small little town with a small little airport, and the school is just going to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and the flight takeoffs and landings. The operations are going to keep going up until they reach a saturation point at some. It's got to at some point. Something's got to give a lot of those people that we talk to will not even come to these meetings because they don't feel like anything's going to happen. They have no faith. Let me address that issue. Thank you. All right, you're the last guy. Can we just real quickly address this proprietors exception? Because this is coming up several times, and I think Mike can speak to that better. Sure, I've heard that topic come up before, and actually it is laid out in FAA policy, where it basically indicates that airport proprietors have the ability to implement restrictions at their airports. The Airport Noise Capacity Act of 1990 greatly reduced the ability of airports or air port sponsors to do that. That was the legislation that essentially, uh, established the phase out of the stage two doysier jet commercial aircraft. And in exchange for that, uh, uh, that, um, phase out, they essentially established a process that said, okay, different airports aren't going to be implementing them, different implement, uh, different restrictions throughout the country. Anything that was already in place is grandfathered. So you hear people talk about John Wayne or some of these other airports that have restrictions, nighttime restrictions, or other. FAA laid out a process that's referred to as a 161 process. It requires an airport proprietor to demonstrate a number of different things to be able to implement a restriction or a limitation on use. And the people that are responsible for determining if each of those criteria is met is the FAA. Numerous airports have gone through the process to try to implement restrictions on airports throughout the U.S. The only one that has been successful in the U.S. was Naples and it was related to the phase out of stage two jet aircraft. It went through multiple years of litigation, no other airports, whether LAX, Van Nies, Burbank, many of the most complex, highly noise-affected environment communities in the country have been successful in being able to implement a restriction in a mandatory basis going through that process. One of the community and the community. The first section in a mandatory basis going through that process. One of the challenges the FAA also puts on airports. Just to give you a little context, News and Murder beach airport is one of 3,400 airports in the national airspace system. There's 129 in Florida that are public use airports. 20 of those are commercial service and the balance are general aviation airports. New Smirna is in the category of a reliever airport, which is the larger general aviation, more complex general aviation, airports critical to the, they're in the first tier, critical to the national airspace system. So one of the things that, as part of the national system, I think of it as a national highway, not allowed to close things at night, you know, if it was at nighty-five, that's essentially this network that's created by these 3,400 airports throughout the airport, or throughout the country. One of the challenges that the airport also has is it's not allowed to discriminate against different users. Anyone with the ability to take off and land at the airport safely can use the airport. There's also discrimination against who is allowed to ultimately do business at the airport that the airport has to also navigate. So there's a variety of different criteria being a public use facility as part of that national airspace system that that was really limit or Create a number of constraints the airport has to deal with. And I just thought it was important to just provide some additional context there. So I don't know if that confused things or help, but hopefully I hope. Okay, my question is, what percentage of the operating costs of the airport are funded by the flight schools? Do you know? I'd say it's about 10% as far as the just 10%? 10% about, yeah. Those, the remainder of it is, we have many, many other tenants. Okay. Okay guys, we're at the two hour mark. I wanna give a brief summary. First, I want to thank you all for coming out tonight. I think we made progress. And the reason I wanted to have such a tight meeting is because this issue has been going on a long time. Well before many of us were here, well before I was on the commission, and it's still a very containerous issue. This issue will not be decided overnight. Ma'am, you asked, will you do something? How do we know you're going to do it? You have significant doubt that we can do something. Radigan, same thing. Heard from you many times. I know they Steve Wood has the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of this issue, it would have been resolved a long time ago. The bottom line is the airport is there. The bottom line is the airport with federal laws has a lot of latitude on what they can do. There's been some people with a lot of money who know very high people who have tried to get something done, push something through. Nothing happened, that didn't work. And that's because the federal laws protecting the airport are very strong. Well, you guys, one thing I want you to understand is I work for you. I don't work for the city. You elect me to represent you. And that's what I'm attempting to do. I keep sticking around in this fight about the airport because there's got to be a way that we can work this out. It's not going to be perfect for either side. But you all showing up tonight is the first step to showing the community, the city, epic that there's enough people who care about it to show up. But you can't just show up tonight. There are groups and organizations in this community who have done very good things, but they spend years working on issues that are passionate to them. So we can't ask a business to do something that would harm the business to the extent that it wouldn't operate well or go out of business. And I don't think any of us are asking for that. A good question has always been how much of one specific use at the airport is too much. And I'm hearing that tonight. And that's a valid question. How much can New Sumerna, the small town, handle of the flight schools? That's not going to be a simple yes or no answer or a simple number. That's going to be a number that's going to have to be walked through, discussed, and we have to have a positive relationship with Epic and the other flight schools. I will tell you this. Epic, Shane will never say that that guy Jason, he's awesome, he's on my side. I've given Epic and Shane and a number of other guys a really hard time because a lot of what I've heard doesn't necessarily jive with what I'm seeing. I live in endless shores, I share the same experiences you all do. I walk out onto my patio, I have to walk back inside. Put them on the phone. I can't hear anything. I open up my sliding glass doors and the weather's nice. I have to shut them to take a phone call or go into my bedroom. I get it. I understand it. So, but what we can't do is just simmer, get mad, get very upset, make demands, and then walk off mad because the city wasn't able to do anything about it. It's a complex issue. And what I get from tonight, and my goal for tonight was to get a room full of people who can generally agree and give me two or three things that are really important to you on how we can work on making this issue better. Now what I hear from everybody and this was this was somewhat new to me the time I had not heard the time being that big of an issue. If you ask me before this meeting is the time frames because they usually cut off generally about 10 p.m. at night and start up about 7. I haven't heard that as a big issue, but what I heard here tonight, that's like one of the biggest issues. But the city cannot just say you're going to start at nine o'clock and you're going to end by nine p.m. It's not exactly the same is an outdoor restaurant with a live band, blaring music and we create a noise ordinance. It's not that easy. You can't just do that. And that is due to federal law. So it is complex. But the most important thing that can be done, I need your help because if it was just Steve that showed up tonight with his wife Becky and two other people, we're not going anywhere, we're not doing anything. Nothing's gonna happen. So, it's important that you stay engaged, and it's important that I will tell you if someone will step forward and become a meter of the group. Someone has the time, I heard a lot of people talk about retirement, if somebody will be in touch, keep the emails, keep in touch with people, reach out to people, and we can facilitate information. That's critical. Because no matter how hard the city tries, to facilitate information to people, not just for this meeting, but for anything we're constantly told. We didn't get the information, we didn't hear it. But the bottom line is the city is constantly trying to find new ways to reach out to the people and notify you. But what the reality of that is, and I will never tell you anything that you want to hear, people never really care about an issue until they care about it. And then they're like, oh my God, I called somebody and they didn't call me back. There's a better way to do that. And there's a lot of organizations in town that have taken up on issues and they have accomplished amazing things by doing that. And that's what I'm asking you all to do tonight's. They engage. Because the next time we have a meeting if three people show up, we're done. Okay? But I also want you, I want to make the point that while I work for you, I can't harm a business, we're not going to be able to harm a business to the point where they're not functioning well. So there's a limitation on what we can do. Now I hear the timeframe. There's two or three things that I'm gonna take back to my city staff and I'm gonna meet with Epic. It's not gonna happen quickly. But I wanna try to engage them on what they can do. They've heard you here tonight. Chains here, he's heard your issues, your concerns. City staff, we've taped the meeting. We have everything we need to move forward on specific issues. We're gonna do the best we can, and it's gonna take time. I mean, we can't just look at someone who's gonna lose four or five hours out of their business model of revenue overnight. They're not going to do that. And I can't ask them to do that. That's not realistic. So, for a petitive flight, I get it. Everybody feels like their neighborhood is the one that gets the most. I will look into which neighborhoods seem to get more than others. That's another thing I'm going to look into because I can tell you that. Dara Trails, you guys feel like you get 90 percent. In my shores, you feel like you get 90 percent. Everybody feels that it was interesting because when I asked to see what neighborhoods were represented, it was really almost a third, a third, and a third. It was pretty evenly distributed, which tells you what. One neighborhood is not getting 90% of all the traffic, or else it wouldn't be so equal. So I want to conclude this meeting tonight by thanking you for coming, thanking you for speaking, and making sure that, I want to make sure that you guys are going to stay engaged. And if somebody can put together a leadership team, two or three people, where we can communicate directly with them on a day to day or week to week or month to month basis, you don't all need to be engaged every day. But we need to facilitate that information. So reach out to me with that information and you can feel free to reach me at any time. I'll be more happy to come to your house and discuss with you a follow up on this meeting or anything else you want to discuss and we will move forward. You will hear back from it and we're going to look at the time. We're going to look at the voluntary... No, the noise of it. Well, the noise of it, yeah, it's voluntary, but I'm looking at the constant patterns. We're going to look at... Yeah, we're going to hide as an issue, but the repetitive flights over neighborhoods on weekends, holidays, and the time. So I'm going to tell you right now I'm not going to go any deeper than this right now, because that's a lot. That's a big deal to ask this business, and we're going to need to put out, there's going to be a lot of staff time put into dealing with weekends holidays and the timing of when they fly Okay, I'm gonna tell you this before I specifically answer I want everybody to know you can go on the city website. You can look up the boards. You can click on Airport Advisory Board and I'll tell you exactly what day and time they meet. However, with that said, Arvind, what is the day and time? Tammy, I believe it's October Okay, so it will be on our website and there's the QR code or website but nsb airport.com It will be up by tomorrow if it's not up there now We don't know I guess the exact date on top of my head. Let me ask you do that. Do they change? Do they so they're not regular and scheduled like some of the other committees? No, we generally schedule them at that meeting the schedule the next one, just depending on who's out of town. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm going to be on the other side of the room. I'm going to be on the other side of the room. I'm going to be on the other side of the room. I'm sorry. Say that again. No. No. The you can listen to the meetings live, but attending the meetings they are during a work week. Yeah, that's true, that's true. Okay, let me ask you a question. Is there anything specific that anyone feels that I just whipped on and totally missed? Hold on, Steve, go ahead. One thing, you can grow up repetition of the lines, and it's been a big thing tonight. You also add into that, or make, well, let's say, part of that being, these planes are a little bit of a negative, but they have five or six planes of a pad. And it's 10 o'clock at night, and they're still there. So Just So there are two things you brought up were repetitive flights. When I talk about repetitive flights to them, I don't get very, they like to, well, there's a touch in the go. And there's a non-touch in the go, well, this is not a repetitive flight. If 30 planes are taken off in an hour, their definition is that's not a repetitive flight. If 30 planes are taken off in an hour, their definition is that's not a repetitive flight. My definition of that's repetitive. Because if we have 10 planes taken off at nine, and 10 planes taken off at 10, and then 10 planes returning at 11, and then 10 planes returning at noon, that's a repetitive nature to the people in the community. That's not necessarily by airport definition, but I do speak to them in the context of yes. And in terms of 11 o'clock and I, you brought up a great point these other places. There are a number of flight schools that are not based out of New Sumerna. And I will tell you that it is very difficult to get in touch with them. I myself very difficult to get in touch with them. I myself have tried to get in touch with them. They don't care. The laws on their side, they don't need to talk to us. They're not going to. The good news is that's not a lot of what uses New Sumerna. And so I know we want to pick on Epic because they're the biggest and they're the hometown and they are the vast majority of the flights, but I can tell you this, no other flight school has taken the time to talk with us like Epic has. Not defending Epic, but I will tell you they're doing better than any of the flight schools. Emory Riddles, a little bit of a, they have an interesting dynamic. They're engaged, they're engaged, but I will tell you not like Epic is. And so I'm not justifying Epic, I'm not trying to say that they've done a great job. They have done a better job over the past year or two. It is a little better. I think there's a few people in this room that recognize that. There's a monthly meeting, internal meeting, that it happens to go over some of these issues that happen. So we are trying to do a lot with Epic because they are the biggest, but there are going to be rogue schools that do not respond to us. And for the most part, due to federal law, they know they don't have to. Okay, any other major issue that I not touch on? Go ahead. I didn't get on the end of five reports. If you want to get on any board in the city, you're going to go to the city clerk's office, Kelly McQuillan, and you're going to ask tell her that you want to get on a board, and you're going to fill out an application. This application is available online. Go to the city website, go to commission and boards, go find the boards and it'll be an application and then you can check whatever boards that you want to be on and you can list them as in order. So if you want to be on two or three boards, but your number one board is going to be the airport advisory board, hit number one for that one. Once you've submitted it, call the clerk's office, ask to speak to Kelly or Sharon and confirm that they received it. And then the next time that there's an opening on the commission, we will get your name. What we don't do, what I don't do is you're available for multiple terms to serve on the same board. Eventually, you get turned out. When someone comes up, let's say Tim back there, he's up next month, and he's got another term that he can serve, I will not remove Tim just because you want to be on the board, right? If there's a current board member who has not done anything egregious or unethical, I will not pull that person off a board to put someone on. I will wait until that person is turned out. That's just me. I can't speak for the rest of the commission, but that is historically how a lot of these go. So just because there's an opening, doesn't mean you'll get one, because we're not kicking someone off necessarily. So that's just a personal note. But go to the city website, go to boards and committees, and then go ahead and fill out the application submitted online. You had a second question? I just think it would be good to have someone represent the public and not necessarily the area. Like the noise of big names. We have a problem with boards, with not enough people wanting to serve on them. First thing I could say is get on the boards. I get on the board committee. I'm sure about my statement. So because we're at the noise of big committee, the act is only a zone for people and this is the airport business system of light schools. I can't answer that. That is something that the commission and staff would have to study. We've had a situation where we've had too many boards on one unfilled. I'll bring that up to city staff and discuss it with them. Send me an email on it and then I'll respond to your email about whether or not we'll just have further discussion on that and see where that goes. Okay, I want to thank you all for coming again and we can't do this unless you all stick together and keep following up with these issues. Thank you for coming.