I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. Starting in you see right now out of there We're going to turn our way to the stage. You see it right now. Out of fear. Hello. Sorry, Lila. Sick. So I'm home. Well. Happens. We put the app. Everyone to be well. That's disappointing. How is everyone's weekend? with everyone's disappointing. How was everyone's weekend? Okay. We made it down the hill, okay. We get a couple runs. Nice. Let's get to the, as always. I bet it was. Look at those. What is the nine to five getting in the way? Yeah, that's why I gave up on work because we got away with my fun. Smarting. Yeah, smart. Yeah. You want to eat something? Yeah. I'm counting four, but we can wait for others to come on. That was funny how it dropped the call. You said, Brian. Yeah. The guy that jumped programed it, it's an immediate trip. you would like to start. All right. Okay. Well, then thank you everyone for joining. We'll call the meeting to order at 333 p.m. on March 4th. I'm going to start with the meeting. I'm going to start with the meeting. I'm going to start with the meeting. I'm going to start with the meeting. I'm going to start with the meeting. I'm going to start with the meeting. to order at 333 p.m. on March 4th. I believe I don't have it in front of me the agenda, but it's approval of the minutes, right? That's correct and I can share that to you. So do we have someone who, well, I guess I will approve the minutes. Do we have a second? A second. Great. Rebecca seconds the approval of last month's meeting minutes. And then our next item is. Morgan. Hello. Morgan's Tom Pritz date. Could I just interject for a minute and introduce why I'm here? Sure, absolutely All right, so everybody knows what I'm sitting here. So as I think you all know Council It's made a big focus of trying to integrate more communication with the community, with our boards and commissions. And a year ago, we wanted to have a liaison from Council on everyone, the boards and commissions to planning commission. And we actually had to get voter approval for that because it changed our bylaws, but we wasn't a big deal. So I am the representative of the liaison with the EAB, which I'm very excited about. And my purpose here is just the facilitate communication between you guys and the council. You can ask me questions, I guess you questions, you can ask me to carry something to them or anything else. So that's why I'm here. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. You chose a great meeting to be at because we are actually the majority of today's meeting is working on a letter that we're drafting for council. So I'm curious to hear your feedback as we go through. Okay, great. Thank you again for joining. So first we'll, I guess, go to core update. And if we can kind of keep these brief, we want to keep as much items for discussion on the green building code and the letter if possible. Yeah, sure. I can keep it pretty brief here. I think just like the big thing to kind of touch on of what CORE has been doing with town of Snowmass village is actually just this last Friday. We submitted a Heehaw grant is what it is for short for 250 carriageway. It's the green goddess we call it. We worked with Betsy with the town to put together a proposal for that to electrify the heating systems and to change those from gas boilers to excuse me, heat pumps. And yeah, the heat high is like high efficiency electrification heating appliance grant. Sorry about that. So yeah, but we worked put that together and submitted that on Friday to hopefully pay for electrifying the heating systems over there at that and at that employee housing. So that was kind of like the big push that we've done here in February was to make sure we were qualified for that and then work to put together that grant. So we'll find out I think it's in four to six weeks if we were selected and if we can move that project forward. But I'm pretty excited about it. Wonderful, thank you. Any questions for Jamie? You have a confidence meter? Like a thought on... Oh, and I mean it's not. Yeah. Sure, yeah, I mean, I think it's a very compelling story just like with, and with who that building serves. We qualified for like disadvantaged income. So we were able to increase our match request on that. And then we, the He-Haw Grant, this is the third round of doing this He-Haw Grant. And they were interested in just implementation projects only were in the past, they've also allowed for planning and some more time. And so we had all the components that like made it shuffle ready. And then we also worked with the Eagles Club and Aspen to partner the two together, because if you could aggregate more projects, they said it would make a more compelling story. And the Eagles building in the city of Aspen, while obviously not in town of Snowass, like I'm sure some folks may be familiar with it in the fraternal order of the Eagles. They fundamentally, the heating systems have completely failed there. And if they don't, and they have reviewed both a gas replacement and electrification and they fundamentally without this grant, it cannot move forward with the electrification project and we'll have to go with gas. And so between hitting like a large number of units of housing from the green goddess coupled with then also like just this like commercial building that serves you know a public space and is a nonprofit. Both of which you know we had all the criteria for it to be able to and and are ready to move them forward. We think that we just have a really compelling story that that we can see that. So yeah we're very excited about it and hopefully, you know, knock on wood, we'll be able to get those to move forward. Fantastic. Great, thank you. Unless there's no other questions for Jamie, we can move on to Holy Cross. Yeah, Holy Cross updates. Greg, I think I sent you. We're working on some more, addressing some of our commercial buildings with a really cool products, it's kind of gateway device. We're hoping to partner with. So I for some commercial buildings that are looking for energy efficiency measures, really utilizing some cost reductions, peak management, load management to help with savings and really promote electrification. So that's going to be neat is we're kind of struggling a little bit with our commercial building space and getting efficiencies there. RFP should be coming out for more resources. We're currently right at the 80% to 90% on monthly renewable energy content. We're looking to RFP here in the coming months for more local resources. and yeah, we're no wonder to content. We're looking to RFP here in the coming months for more local resources and yeah, we're still going with a lot of our programs and all that stuff. So that's all I got. Awesome. Any questions for Mike? Okay, great. Then we will move on to item five items for discussion starting with five a green building code update. So with the last meeting of the EAB, there was quite a bit of discussion about code updates and I think that is our segue into item 5B as well. But you asked me some very difficult questions that I couldn't answer. And so what I did is I went to the expert and told him he had to be here for the next meeting. And so I will introduce Mike Nathini, who is our chief building official. And he is a, are we going with absolute pro or just pro? Yeah. do you have a pro? Someone knowledgeable. OK, someone knowledgeable in the space, but a career built on knowing these kinds of things. And so what I ask Mike to do is just give a brief overview of where we're at, where we're going, and how this works. So like, so currently we're looking at adopting the 21 series of the international codes which includes the IGCC. One thing that I am doing is I've reached out to a woman named Shonamazingo. I've worked with her. We've served on numerous boards and stuff over the years. she is one of the top people with energy code and green code stuff in the state and she works through the governor's energy office and will be helping us through our adoption process. The interesting thing about the green code that I'm getting from her is that the state is looking to adopt their own several rules. I think she said early 26 and she is actually recommending that we don't pull in the IGCC, but wait until the state has their package put together fully and then take a look at that. So I guess that's kind of what we're looking at now, the rest of the codes. We're looking at, you know, some fairly unamended, we'll have some for local stuff, but a fairly unamended set of all these other series of codes, fuel gas and plumbing and mechanical building the residential code, which has also some energy and green components in that. So that's kind of where we're headed right now. And I don't, you know, if you need me to answer questions, I'll do my best, but that's kind of what we're working on currently. I think we can probably expect to see the kind of the bare bones draft. I would guess May would be my estimate for a timeframe when she's gonna get back to me with the adoption that she's helping us work through. So that's kind of what's going on. Awesome. Good questions, you all have? I have an initial question. I think green building can mean a lot of different things. When you think about the what you think the state is going to develop, do you feel like it's going to be in a particular area within green building? Um, where is there anything we can do on a local level that might, I don't know, help it with something that might be missed by the state since we're rural and maybe the state is the king more like policy for the whole state. Can you speak to that at all? Um, you know, I think um, what you're seeing a lot of is that the energy code is now kind of driving a lot more of the green effort. I also think that we're not going to know a heck of a lot until we see what the state comes out with. And you know, at that time, you can always take a look and make local adaptations as needed. So it's kind of up in the air right now to be honest. coming and I'm told it's probably where we want to go. So, and her background and all I trust her, that's what we probably should do. These very familiar with how local jurisdictions work and all of that. So, I think she's a great resource. She's currently working with Pickin County City of Asking as well. She has helped. I know pretty sure she's been involved with Carbondale. She may have been involved with the salt a little bit too. She's been involved pretty much anytime, anybody on the, she used to live in Glenwood and grew up in rifle so she has kind of an interest in this area. And she's been exceedingly helpful and helping everybody with, if not, you know, a code adoption process, but trainings and in the energy code changes and all of those types of things are very good. So Mike, is this green building code? Is it actually as part of the IBC? Oh, this is a,ad, the Green Building Code is an independent international code. And could be adopted or not. So the code itself exists in a... Not draft form, but a model form, right? I have a book in my office. More than welcome than welcome to come to. Right, right. So what is being done now is to see what should be adopted for local conditions. Is that well, that's what we're working on. That's your working on. And being told, hold off until the state comes out. The state's doing the same thing. Yeah. Okay. And what is jurisdictional at issue? I mean, if the state has a code, we have a code. Does ours take precedence or is the state? Well, we're home rule. So it's getting a little slippery now. We have our governor put into place requirements that and then this is exactly why we're changing codes. If you have an adopted building code, then you have to be on one of the three most current additions of the energy code. So that lines start to work a little bit. It used to be home rule. You adopted what you wanted. There were, you know, out in the eastern Colorado, there were places that were on the 64 UBC code. And there are still a number of counties that don't have any building code. All right, time's down. So going back to sort of Morgan's question, I mean, there is this model code, which we build a code if she was interested. No, one of the things that it addresses, it's like a telephone book. Yeah, it's like a a typical notebook. But yeah, there's a lot in there. Yeah. But the state is going to take from that and adopt what they think is appropriate for Colorado. And the first step for us would be to see that MC if we agree with it or the things we want modified right? Absolutely. It's less. That's correct. They say that we would be more restrictive in areas but but not less restrictive. No. Is that the way it's required to be? For the energy code, not for the green billing code. Okay. I don't know what the state rules will be. They'll come up with something and we're home rule. So we do have a lot of options as to what we want to do. But specific to the energy code, you can make it more restrictive if you want, but not less. Unless you have a really kind of compelling reason. When does code get applied? It's anytime there's a new building, and then anytime a building permit is pulled. Yeah. If for instance, if your hot water heater failed you, you would probably have a plumber come in and make application. So it's everything from, I need a new water heater to, we're going to build one of these big buildings over here. And that includes everything that's altered, added on to a new build, remodels. It's all there. And so that's what you look to for permit. So if I had to replace my water heater and there were things in the building code that my house was not up to code on related to things that are very different than related to water heating, do those get triggered too? No. Once you have a building that's been approved under whatever code and by whomever back in 1967 or something they are allowed to remain that way. Unless you start altering. You start you you're terribly old. About water heater out and you're like okay now we need to get a permit to go back in with a new water here. So, yeah, it's allowed to remain. It's only the portion of the code related to the work being done, not anything else. Right. Okay. Because out of the yard might say, your plumber needs to get a permit, but then water here. Right, right, right. And that's when it comes to. Yeah. A better example might be with a remodel. A building may not have all the right exterior insulation layers and all of that, but we're not gonna make you tear the siding off of your house to bring it up to the current standard. We're gonna do the best we have with what's available. Understood. Yeah. But if you add on like a couple of, or you're an addition to the house, it needs to be up to the current standard. The addition itself has to be. Yes, thank you. You got it. What else do we have? Is there any limit on square footage or any discussion around and I'm working right, sizing those limits? Whatever that right ties maybe. As far as equipment or for regarding the sorry, building floor area and ratio, since that's. And Matt town currently has. Sorry again, Rob, the town currently has. Four areas for most of the building. watch in town, that's kind of more on the zoning and planning side of things, but there is usually specified amount of area that can be built. There is, you can pay, it's essentially a tax for area, excise tax that can buy you a little bit more, but not. Was it maximum? 10% or 5%? I think it's 10. But it's expensive. Yes. That makes good use of that money. Any other questions? Sorry, my internet's a little in and out, but I can hear you guys any other questions for on green building code specifically. Okay then we'll move on to item 5b review of draft letter to council on 2030 emissions. Greg would you be willing to please pull that up for everybody? Certainly can. Thank you so much for joining us, Mike. That would be good. Anytime. Oh, careful. Um, great. Thank you. So thank you again for everyone who, did their, their piece of the puzzle for this letter. I know there was a last minute. Can you guys hear me? We're going to move some seating to be able to see it better. Okay, great. And it looks like I need to give you edit access. Let me go ahead and do that. Right now to say that. It works. It's all better. Yeah. Editor. Okay, Greg, you should be able to edit it now. If you want to update. Perfect. Okay, so thank you again to everyone who added their piece to it. I don't think she is on Ainsley from city of Aspen is now also on the call with us. And she has tried to push through for the city. Multiple. kind of programs that are similar to the ones that we've all discussed. And so she offered to be on here to to lend an ear and some suggestions of what we could do to go to council. Is it clear to hear us? Okay. Yeah, hi. Thanks for having me. Can you hear me? Okay. I'm using my AirPods. Yes. we can be great. Okay, great. Perfect. I'm trying to sound like I'm underwater, but yeah, happy to help in any capacity. You sound above water, so that's good. And so maybe as a way to just run through, has everyone had an opportunity to read the newest version of this? Probably not, I read it last night, so. Okay, so if everyone could maybe just take a couple minutes and we'll kind of skim through and then we can go kind of section by section and see what we want to change and how does that seem like a good a good use of a few minutes? No. Yeah. I'm kind of scroll. I don't know how fast people can do that. It's a tough call. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. adding in sustainability coordinator staff position to this, which I think is a good call since that's something that we have previously engaged council on. And so there is an added section on that. Then we go into fire underneath the orange. We have kind of like the original suggestion, I think as proposed by Rebecca and Darryl, water same thing. And then compost and demolition should and item transit should be pretty. We tried to make it as as piffy as possible. So hopefully those sections members are voting on the verbatures or someone that could be entrusted to ID up something, et cetera, et cetera. Well, that is, as we always run into, an interesting question, okay. Because what is agreed upon, what is voted on by the board, cannot subsequently change between vote and what submitted to the council. Gotcha. And so I'm comfortable with tweaking around the edges, if we can rammer, but not rammer content. Nothing of substance. And I will put my lawyer hat on as often as possible in this sense because we take these things very seriously. And so, yeah. Looking at this draft and seeing that there's multiple pages with one hour to go there's a chance we won't get through a draft and having seen it before where changes are made after it's voted on. I really don't want to have to be the policing agent again to say this needs to be this change, to this needs to be voted on once more. Yeah, so I think it's fair to say, let's try and get as far as we can. And if we end up needing a second meeting, or if we feel like one topic is taking too long as a discussion point, the owner of that can decide that we can move it to the end or to a further into the next meeting. Does that work for everybody? Yeah, that sounds good. Okay. Can I just make a couple suggestions and how it'll play with council? And I haven't read this. I don't know if I got drafted or not. It might just might just be. I just had access today. Yeah, it doesn't matter. I think it's all good. But in council supports in general, all the things you're talking about. For example, fire. I mean, one of our goals that it is, the whole resiliency plan for the town, which includes things like listening here, but you know, communicating with homeowners, you know, the hardened their homes and things like that. But be very specific. You know, what you think needs what you're recommending. Don't make it to the very general and, you know, be really clear, be really clear why this is important. And keep in mind that all these things have a cost and there's not limitless amounts of money. And so, you know, just as you're putting it together think about the audience you're giving it to. I'm the only technical person on the council. I'm laughing from all about what I'm saying. So don't make it technical, but make it very succinct and clear. That this is what we're recommending. This is why and this is what we think can be and what we'll do. And I think just to kind of build on what Tom is saying is that the stuff that I wrote that we submitted for fire, it's kind of the general idea of where I want to go, where I think that is a plan in order to get things going, to get the conversation started. But I, to answer Tom's question, I don't have anything concrete yet to put in a letter or a recommendation to council. I think that first, I didn't get very far in the orange writing, but it looked like they were saying to have specific asks and I have an idea of things to pursue but not an ask for counsel yet. Like I would really like to say if we're going to start with fires the first on the list, I think it'd be a wonderful I we met with John Greg, Darrell, John and I met And one of John's thoughts was to show the movie, the elemental movie, that there was a showing down into call. And then after the showing of the movie, there was a panel. I think that's an amazing idea to do once, if not even twice up here, to get people here to get the conversation started, to see what public engagement is like, to see if people that come to it, how they respond to it, it's a conversation starter to see how engaged the public is at this time. John has been doing outreach for years and years and years and he seems like he's kind of dismayed. He's a little bit. John Melee. Yeah. That he's been having the same message for so many years and he hasn't seen the public really engage and be excited about it. At least this was my take on it. So, but with the fires that have gone on. I mean, the California fire. Exactly. So, let me just say that, you know, this is something council is very interested in and what you write doesn't always have to be an ask. And I'll say, we think these things should be done. We are doing these things and these other things probably could be done. Also, you know, it could be more of a conversation than an ask or report. You know, or an update of the council, this is where we're at on this topic. Exactly. And that's what this is. Exactly. That's what this is. Because that'd be very helpful because we're we're trying to how do we educate the public about this and you've already started the conversation. It says really useful. So yeah, to show the movie once or twice, get a panel involved. See where where that takes us. There's also been in the paper quite a bit lately information about the, I'm going to say it on the roaring fork wildfire collaborative and that the lady who's starting that has, she's getting money together, she's got projects together up and down the valley. So to also interact and engage with her to see what her ideas and thoughts are specifically for Snowmass Village. Just to remind her, I said on the board for that organization. One question that came up, as we were talking about this, is does the village, maybe to it from a financial standpoint? Yeah, we support if you run the board. Yeah, we support if nominal. Not that your time isn't valuable, but is there a financial, there's a nominal financial? Yeah, the four digits, and it supports that staff. Yeah, we're all okay. So, I mean, in quick summary of some of the stuff that is in the the verbiage part of it is that one, the towns are already doing great work in the publicly owned spaces and huge increases in the budget that you've helped to shepherd through with John's help to figure out how to get it contracted and everything. So it increased of 15,000 annually to 100,000. Right. The thing that I, and this is part of the conversation, was that in John's presentation to counsel almost a year and a half ago now, it was very clear that it's the private residential side that's really not addressed. And one of the things that I feel strongly about is when you have an issue in the private residential side that what you do in your own property is only one piece of the pie, it's what your neighbors do that is also significant factor that my opinion pushes it into the public sphere. So it's not just like, oh, everyone do your best and don't, you know, it's like, no, we actually might need a public engagement and possibly public enforcement, which is not popular and a whole other can of worms. That's that kind of specific, specificity that don't have yet. Wait, yeah. So our thought was what that looks like. Yeah, you don't necessarily need to. Think you could say. We could go down to our language. So this is the chain Morgan. This is the orange is your writing, is it right? Yeah, I just tried to take pieces out and added a couple of things that we've just talked about in our meetings before. Because I heard similar feedback to what can you guys hear me? I think I'm breaking down. Okay, I heard similar feedback to what Tom shared as if we can have a succinct concrete ask or at least like education or update piece that will make it more likely. So all of the information down below can obviously stay. We might want to make a couple of grammar edits or whatever it might be. But having that kind of top piece be really quick because the goal of this is to educate council and then hopefully get a meeting so that we can then, you know, get all of our ducks in a row to have all of the right stakeholders for whichever part of these. We're presenting to council in person. So the orange is basically taking what Rebecca and I put in there and putting it in the form of something that states recommendation and that's what it starts with. And then there's something that says background and then pilot example. How do you envision? Like would it make sense? Yeah, so the majority of what you have in here would basically your beer background and a pilot example would be like, like if we're going to a pilot example would be, you know, get a, a year long like media and education plan out and approved to start by X-Date. And if we're going to have a financial incentive plan for residential families to change anything that is flammable to give $20,000 or $10,000 or whatever it might be as a financial incentive towards a program to see what adoption looks like based off of those financial incentives. Like just that's obviously too long but that's the general idea. Okay so then some of the stuff that's there is background would move into the backroom set background section. Some stuff would work as a recommendation i.e. hosting the the movie and panel discussions, just one start of that. A second part is working and involving the collaborative more so would be another recommendation. And then a pilot example would be some way of packaging it for a one-year time frame. Is that what you envisioned by pilot? I think so because I think from what I've heard from Ainsley and maybe Ainsley, you can give some background on this just broadly. What I've understood from Ainsley in our conversations and from Greg is that if you can do something as a year to get education out and also collect data during that period, then you know very actual steps about what you did, why just an education campaign may or may not have worked, and then exactly what you want to do towards an implementation plan. Yes, exactly. It's really helpful to have that data and show to the council that voluntary effort may or may not work. This is how we approach the public. This is how we ask them to contribute to our cause. And this is the results on voluntary effort and why we believe a more regulatory approach is appropriate to reach our goals. Okay, so I, well, I've already talked a lot. I'm not sure that I think a year is needed to even touch base with other municipalities in similar situations and even population patterns like Vale to figure out what's worked, what hasn't, what's their enforcement look like if at all, all those different questions come to my mind as part of the data collection is looking at comparable? Well, I mean, I don't want to drive the conversation by do under Jack, because I've involved with this a little bit. For example, I did a home down in Tassouki in Santa Fe, just recently, and getting insurance was unbelievably possible. We went through all the issues and all the requirements of the insurance company and all this, which is about the border around the house, how far for trades and all this. So all these requirements are out there. All these, it's not rocket science. It's very clearly defined of what you should do to harden on. It It's clear, you know, from on the extra roof, citing all that. And I wouldn't waste much time trying to reinvent that. So I think the real question you're asking is, you know, this is what we think should be implemented in so mass. What's the best way to achieve it, right? And certainly the first start is education and getting people to do the right thing by the right thing. And then the next question, if that doesn't work sufficiently, what is the next step you take? And now with my recommendation, I think that's the best best way to approach council is tell what the issue is. Show that the criteria that's out there. It's our matter of sense. And point out the fact that the biggest fire danger is houses burning and then sending in bursts on. That's the biggest risk. I mean, that's very similar to what it does. Yeah, so boy, the news, pardon the homes. It's not if there's going to be a wildfire, we know there is going to be, and you're trying to keep the homes from igniting. And I will put that in there as that's the key thing, and this is what you're recommending to be done. And I would, I want to hit it too hard with of the hammer and says, you must, you know, these are the requirements and you need to have enforcement blah blah blah. But say this is the industry standards for this stuff. We need to have a program here in snowmass. These are our suggestions. You know, and you get going like that. That's what I mean about being specific. So I hear that, but I also do hear differences. Like for example when we were talking with John, I brought up an Aspen tree leaning up against a house. And he's like, no, there's not a problem. And I'm like, well, I respect his professional opinion. However, I don't see anywhere a code that says within five feet, the only point that's allowed is an Aspen. I see no trees and no shrubs. So there's a difference of it. Yeah, but that needs to get, that's what I mean. Those are tweaks, right? Because aspen trees, miles from the aspen trees, I mean, they don't burn because they're full of water, right? So, I mean, those are things you could add to this, right? But there is, and I can send you what I got in my files. I mean, if you're interested. Oh, I agree. It's out there. The question though is like, if we would be asking any entity to enforce something, the next question is what is being asked to enforce? Because some things would be entirely, I think, hard to get push uphill. Like, no wood mulch within five feet of the house. I don't think that's hard at all. I think that a lot of people would revolt. I mean, that's like five feet of the house. I don't think that's hard at all. I think that a lot of people would revolt. I mean, that's like 95% of the houses here. But you know what, that's why you're doing a distinct out of tree, right? I mean, to me, that is clearly a fire danger. I got to show them away the empty sliding setting their setting on fire, right? I thought that would be a huge ass. I think that's simple, but the best is if you can say, this is like the insurance. and sliding, sending them, sending them far away. I thought that would be a huge ask. I think that's simple, but the best is if you can say, this is like the insurance industry and or John Maylay's whatever, you know, is that this is the attach it. This is what we need to do. And the first step is education. And then the second step, the enforcement is really tough. And then there's also a question of who enforces them. And then how is the secondary insurance if they're reported, I'm not doing it. But I would start with the education. First, I would start with, this is the issue. Right, this is why it's important. And then, you know, this is the industry standards of how you should part in the home. And then, you know, some suggestions of educating and maybe how to get it out to the public, you know, sorry to interrupt, but just to in the so we have a lot of that language. So going back to the to the draft, how comfortable are we starting with this example recommendation? And we can just take out example, example and this is the recommendation keeping the background as drafted by Rebecca and Darryl. And then I inserted a pilot example that everyone can look at how comfortable are we moving on or proving this and then moving on to the water section of this document. Yeah, I'm my. I've got two comments. One, I've got two comments. You know, what I want to, I guess, you know, I'd be curious to hear the authors of this section is kind of you of long term goal. And you know, I wonder if they really mean like, we'd like to see that this decade or or or you know, soon, but I'll leave that to the road. The other thing is that we just heard that aspen's are full of water, they don't combust. I've seen that in fire reports from the state. I would strongly encourage us to investigate using like ecosystem services or natural systems that are available to to express ours like we live in an area that naturally Rose acid forests. We like spray we killer to suppress them. Maybe we should be encouraging them if they're you and have programs and have programs to enhance, ask them for us if they are a natural fire suppression. So we've got those two comments here. The first question was, what's the timeframe envisioned? For the long-term goal. I would love the long-term. Yeah. I mean, I would love personally to see. The sure will changes across broad residential neighborhoods within five years. That's way too long. I want to see it next week. That's what you say. But I basically heard in the last meeting we have with John, there's not been an appetite for that level of residential action. I think your is to raise the level of awareness and get that appetite there. I mean, I tell you, people that are very worried after seeing those fires in California. I would, I was a time to address this stuff. Council was talking about it. Now it was at the time. I heard San John's frustration, but it's changed. People are very worried about it. So I would say, you know, started and you know, I'm not sure you've got to be saved within five years but as it was possible and you know she's heard the process immediately. Well I'm not here to back out what are your thoughts? Well my thoughts are the education part of it and the community dialogue so that that's my main focus is to get two showings of that movie with a panel for discussion afterwards within, you know, maybe one. I don't know. It depends on how booked up to the collective is. That's one area to maybe do the showing. But yeah, two showings within the next six months. one for the, and then you can show like a recent every quarter. So, okay. But no, because you can't make it. No, so just do it. Just good for thought here, right? There are people who are clearly not brought along and need to understand the fire risk in our area. And then there are already people who are terrified of what's going to happen with a fire. And I think that we can parallel path both of these things right now. So for the people who need to be brought along because that's important, let's do the education stuff. For the people who are going to act immediately and do something about it, let's like fire, at least part of our town. Because I don't think I mean, I'm terrified about this summer. Like I have no idea what my plan is going to be this summer, if like something happens with the two-year-old and two parents. Like, I have zero clue. And I feel that there are a lot of people who feel that way and are really looking for solid answers and are going to approach their neighbors to say, hey, please do this because by trimming down this tree or like getting rid of your turf, you're actually going to be protecting our neighborhood. So I think parallel pathing is the move. If we can take advantage of whatever we can take advantage of right now. I agree. Okay, so Tom is suggesting to be bolder with specific aspects, but don't get too caught up in details. How are we going to do that? Be clear about the aspects but don't get into the weeds on the detail. Okay, literally and figuratively. So, so, so, so, so, when I actually just read this and we can approve this language because I think the recommendation is what we all need to approve and just trust that everyone kind of did their research for the background. Is that okay? From a formatting standpoint, I would suggest recommendations follow the background. Okay, that's fine. But just in terms of the content. So are we all comfortable approving the AAB strongly recommends starting an education campaign for the next year? What could be done in your home to mitigate fire in our area, including landscaping and construction changes to retrofit homes. Education can be done through screenings, no math, son articles, and pamphlets distributed to homes. Our long-term goals to do research in fire safety areas like Vale and to mimic their programs for adoption here in our village, requiring no mulch within five feet of a home, only planting low to non-flammable plants within five feet, to have financial incentives for residential families to change anything that is flammable to retrofit their homes followed by required programming. And I just ask? Yeah. I'd be more comfortable if I saw you add the words such as in front of requiring no mulch within. I mean, is that what Vail does? These are their requirements? Or is this exactly what you're recommending? This is exactly what we're recommending based off of what we've heard and what we know to be some of like the lowest hanging fruit of what you can do to create fire safety around someone's home outside. Yeah, I'll get a thing from the council's meeting as council. It's easier for me understand. So you're going to be researching this more like well. And then say such as requiring. Yeah, and say this is what we need because there's actually more beyond just the five foot. Yeah, right. So there's there's a zone of five to 25 or five to 30 feet that's slightly different than even 30 feet on. So it does get involved. I don't know what Vail does about mulch. Those are some of the questions that I have. So anyways, these are, I think personally, I think it needs to be word Smith still. Okay, so can we spend the next five minutes doing that because it feels like we already have a lot of the content and if we just were to word Smith a little bit that we'd be in a better place. Is that okay? I think well, I think we've got other things we have to cover. And so we we should probably word Smith and bring it back. That's my, because I just don't know we'll be able to get everything from here to the end of this document. We're Smith by. I think it's more or any Council to come with a really clear document really well thought out than to rush it for any reason and come in with something isn't 100% because you'll get one shot. I think this is good guidance Morgan from what was added on the fire. And now that I understand the flow of the letter a little bit better, I would like another month to do more research and to follow this format. Okay, great. So then should we then skip ahead and skip water? Go to the other two sections and then in the next meeting will spend more time on fire and water. Sure. Okay. So skipping ahead to compost. So recommendation. We recommend that the town council initiate a pilot program in coordination with town of snowman village solid waste and recycling and if this. And if this program is not feasible for the town that evergreen zero waste be contracted to facilitate organic calling from participants. background. A lot of that is coming from conversations with Anzley and Evergreen Waste. Anzley, I don't know if you want to speak to this at all about why we arrived at this recommendation based off of your experience. Hi, sorry if it's loud and I'm about to get on the bus and I might have to drop off. I, but I think so let me get you to solve this. Yeah, so the city we did do like, thing voluntary participation in the beginning to see who would like to. Actually, uh, divert their organic waste from the troubles. And I was talking to Morgan about offering something similar. I know there's some, um having containers in certain areas in the storm house village, but I also suggested working with the restaurant industry. That's who we targeted first for our internet because they produced the largest amount of organic waste. But we also have like a community drop off center, which I know you all have to, but offering more of those and more convenient locations would be useful and might excite people to compost more fit or heart contract so far. A little uncomfortable with from the council side, if you recommend a specific vendor. So if you could describe what that vendor does and then say such as ever green zero, so you're a little more generic. I think we'd be a little more comfortable. First, note it too that only certain neighborhoods have curbside and so keep in in mind where central in two. Two, most people have the dumpsters. Yeah, so keep in mind that a central drop-off would essentially be a roadblock for adding what's currently there, adding to what's currently there at public works, finding a spot may have proved to be difficult. The town currently does halt. Okay. So I think that the suggestion here is that we know that the majority of lift can happen by focusing first on commercial. And so if we could get restaurants to basically sign up for a pilot of some kind and providing all of those kind of pieces for a year. So it's if you scroll down to the pilot example, the board acknowledges staffing and space constraints exist. We suggest starting with the voluntary accomplishing program of 10 commercial businesses and then making it mandatory if the program is deep-nets successful. We provide indoor containers for the restaurants, signage, and staff training. With 10 restaurants, we would have materials, a materials and supply budget of $100 per restaurant for indoor containers and signage. We could also provide composable bags for an added cost of a dollar per bag. And an operational cost estimate, which is dependent on the setup of the restaurant and how many services they need per week. And here it gives you a range depending on the restaurant. After a year of running the program and understanding what changes to snow ass village would need to happen to run a mandatory program, receive a cost analysis to many all restaurants to compost and only use compostable take out materials. The reason why we're focusing on commercial is because we have heard so much pushback about the residential composting, which I have high hopes that eventually won't be an issue because if it's a space problem, your space just gets changed, you end up just having a bin that is for composting because now your trash is actually being reduced. But we figured that starting with commercial would be a really good way of testing out the program. You're exactly right about the three then thing and just again, a reminder that when you add that third bin, it would add staff add a truck and another, do existing staff. And then to echo Tom's comments from earlier, looking at this pilot suggestion, there are some admin costs that are not built into this, such as who's sourcing these bags, and how do we do distribution, how do we track who's actually collecting this data, So just something to think of who's collecting the thing who's calling. It's not a good example, but in a previous community, we ran a pilot like this with commercial, so residential, sorry, on restaurants and a university. And it was, it cost a lot more than we thought to do this side of it. And we were the ones actually processing the compost. So we had some lower overhead than most. So learn from my mistakes. Perfect. Perfect. I just added in a couple notes to reflect all of that. So between now and the next meeting, I'm happy to work on that language. Any other kind of feedback from the rest of the group on what might need to change or be added? What is COA?. City. Sorry if that was obvious. That's okay. I just. I just. Right now at each time. No offense, Ainsley. Okay. Any other, anything else on compost? Otherwise, we can move down to demolition and construction. Great. So the recommendation for demolition and construction, working conjunction with picking county landfill to track five construction jobs through green halo. And just for Tom's kind of understanding green halo is what picking county uses. And so that's what everyone uses because that's what picking county uses. And with the intention of adopting a similar construction demolition diversion ordinance by 2027, the 2027 is basically, again, trying to be aggressive, but also realizing that we probably have some data we can now look at since City Vassibin has published their plan. And we actually have data from that and so between that and what we could potentially, you know, collect on our own over a year. Hopefully we could be able to move a little bit faster since we have other groups we can learn from. I know the Pick and County has that diversion program, right? And Disassment have it also. Do they both have that program program. Yeah, they work they compliment one clear. We just passed our policy in January of 2025, which mirrors the county's policy, but we have a little stronger regulation standards. Okay. So you just adopted it. Is that correct? Yep, and we use the county's data from the last three years to support. So I mean, it would be useful to see how it's working in Aspen. We know how it's worked, or has worked in the uncorporated areas of the county, right? I think it would be good to get a year of data from Aspen, but I would then talk about implementing this like, you know, late 20, 26. You know, I, I, I, I, I was going to have to be addressing with your dates, because all this is really important. Sorry. We won't have data available until maybe fall of 2026 because things that are being permitted now under the regulation that break ground until probably late quarter or time five quarter or twenty twenty six. All right, so okay, that maybe even explain why you picked that date so you can get the data from Aspen or something so understandable. You'll want to four year ago. You'll want to. So yeah. Well, in terms of the data collection curious. Is there a scenario which the data tells us to do one thing and a different scenario in which the data tells us to do something different. Is that that's why you would usually collect data? I think it's more operational. I'll speak from what my staff had on. I would look to define folks city of Aspen to understand what works from permitting to enforcement and all the way through and then see how that's reflected in the actual diversion data and cost it's staff time. And that's already, we know that's going to be difficult just because we're looking at 11 staff in Aspen's portfolio versus a portion of my time and a portion of public works time solid waste team. So it's not staff will be apples to apples of the apples to grapes when not even apples to oranges. But I want to look operationally so that if this board makes a recommendation to the council that the um which buzzword did I hear today that I want to use? It's right sized for this community. Like, like. Well, and I think just to kind of pick up on one thing that Greg just said, like, yes, we don't have a dedicated person. And this is like a five to whatever percent job for our staff members, which is why I think the council originally put forth to or the EAB originally put forth a recommendation to counsel to have a sustainability coordinator hired full time for the town. But I think we're still trying to we don't want to just sit on our hands and say, okay, well, they're not going to do that and there's nothing we can do. So we basically decided we were going to craft this letter and try and make some headway, knowing that if we can get budgeted for next year sustainability coordinator, then at least we don't have to wait a year of not doing anything. We'll have actually helped to collect data, we'll have helped to create plans. And then that way, sustainability coordinator could be effective on like day five instead of you know taking a year to craft a lot of these programs, which would be probably just, for some of these things, we just don't have time. And I'm more so mean around fire. So I think we were just trying to get a little bit aggressive and put that stuff there. I think it's a good approach, Morgan. When it was brought to us about the sustainable court areas, like, weren't sort of quite clear, what would this person really be doing that people aren't doing now? And it wasn't clear. This, I mean, by recommending the programs that you think need to happen, then we'll make counsel staff say, well, these are all the things, but we don't have the member to do it. So, we need to bring somebody on. That's that's the right way to get at it. Ren, say, let's bring somebody on and they'll figure out what needs to be done. I think that what you're doing is the right approach. Interesting. And it's interesting that that became the sixth bullet that that became the sixth bullet at the top of this document because we realize every minute being introduced here is like, well, who's going to do it? It's the next question. And I think that it's sort of like exactly reinforcing what you're saying. But I'd be careful about, you know, pounding that stable to hard right now. Okay. I'd rather see you wound on what needs to be done. And let the staff say we can't do it. Right. Okay. Do you agree? Let's define the need first. And either we can do it within the staff we have, we got to bring somebody on. But it's a better way to do it. So if that's this, I agree with you. So if for the rest of basically between now and the next meeting, if everyone could please spend time going through changing your section and implementing the changes as we talked about today and assigning any costs associated with each of these things I think that that would be great and then hopefully everyone will have already read the document and then we can just read through any comments that are not cleared up and we don't have to use the next meeting as so much of a working session as much of just a finalizing session. Does that sound good to everyone? Michael. I didn't hear. Did you say, draft and circulated to, you know, I mean, it's right, I don't know if this is what protocol is, but we have Tom also review it with a lens that he brings before we come back or is that I mean I'll look at it and talk to you about it here yes. That's appropriate so we could try to get it done in advance of the next meeting so maybe Tom and Greg of course has a chance to review it and you guys do yeah yeah yeah I mean you should try to get all done two weeks with. So there's two weeks to the end of free review. And you guys, the conversation, we'll help with that. Okay. I see Jamie put in a suggestion here. I would recommend number six at the top would be decarbonizing the built environment and move this specific request into the discussion area below. Do we, does that work for everybody? Can you spend some time explaining that and flushing that out? Yeah, sure. I mean, maybe I don't mean like right now per se, but yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, I think just really quickly that like if you look at those top things, there are really kind of categories of impact to the town that are environmentally related, right? Whether it is like the last Greg's talk before, whether it's fire or water or transportation or construction and demolition, or then also like we've got to build environment and things associated with that is is where where I'm kind of like here and and part of the you know part of as an advisor for you guys here and so I just felt like when you look at like the criteria at the top and then how you put this into like a background and why and then what your asks are I would kind of like look at framing it that same way. Obviously, I think like just like one thing to point out is that in that space, the town of Snowmass has greatly increased their investment in decarbonizing the built environment. And obviously I will continue to advocate for more and so we can keep doing that. But yeah, if if the so I would just like from a formatting standpoint, I would kind of review that as well of how you're, you know, especially as Tom's talking about how you're framing the asks, kind of look at how you put that, you know, that request and frame that request in the overall document. So Jamie, in soup terms, are you saying the electrification of heating sources is that your decarbonization? Yeah. So electrification of buildings and making the existing buildings that are there encouraging them to be more energy efficient through electrification and insulation. And I think that's a very important activity and all it takes is money, right? I mean, that's the easiest. I mean, the resource to identify, I mean, the technologies there are the expertise. There's money. I would not shy away from including that in this letter. And just so you don't feel slighted, Jamie, I think what launched this letter concept was sort of like, you guys are already doing that in space. Where do the areas that are less, that we as a committee feel like need to be lifted up? But I mean, that may not be disagree. I disagree. Okay. Because I'm speaking of the impact on council. All right. I mean, yes, Jamie is doing space. Yeah, yeah. All over the valley. Okay. But I think what this letter should be doing is, these are really important things. How needs to be doing? And I should that should be included in it and as it keep doing and improve. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because it just requires a huge amount of money, but that's all the things. Gotcha. Yeah, no, no, no, slight at all. I think like for me, I'm trying to position myself like obviously with this being my passion is and you know, and advising with this board here is to say that I think that that is also important and because I'm a representative here, I don't think we spend like, and rightfully so, a bunch of time going into the weeds in terms of what the electrification is because that's kind of like what Greg has said with like, you know, electrifying the town's fleet. Like, you know, we've got people working on that. We don't need to go into the weeds as part of this board, but I think one of the things that, you know, for me to advocate, you know, with here, you know, with the group here is that, yeah, like just what Tom said, is that there's always more that needs to be done in that space. And so if it is, you know, a staff member that then we can, you know, like right now I work with, you know, and talk with Greg and Clint, you know, pretty regularly on what we have going on. And and like I said, like worked with Betsy at the with the housing department to further things there but like you know staffing. I'm going to enter Johnny. Yeah sure. Yeah, I want to interject just because I know that we're going on time. To me, the big move now is the residential. It's not town buildings in town fleet, but how do we get all the homes here and the multi-family homes converted? That to me that is what I always heard a chorus being the most important significant decarbonization thing we could do and just takes our huge amount of money. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. You're correct. I mean, go ahead, Joe. Sorry. I'm actually doing this right now. I'm getting quotes for signing, you know, looking at fireproofing and insulation and putting in heat pumps. We've got some trucks here today and a permit pulled. Okay. Somebody's listening. But you know, well, it does take a lot of money. I'll say that there is a double bang. Like if you're doing your siding, you know, it costs two to three bucks a square foot to add insulation. And you can add like R9, you know, and with one and a half inch of insulation, but while they're already doing this. So we can address kind of two big buckets at the same time with the smart programming. Yeah. And Joe, we should have some grant money for you available through Core and Holy Cross if we can have the fine folks on the call find the money for you. Yep, Joe, and I have been, I have, oh, since we last met here at the last EAB, we've had some conversations over email. So I think we've got the groundwork laid on that. Joe, tell your friend. But I feel like I'm begging this too hard, but the building code requires you to put that insulation. Okay. The levels of insulation required by the co-printing new work the renovation is enormous right never doesn't say you need to put it in a heat pump but we need to incentivize homeowners to convert from gas to heat pumps and that's what course is doing for us I understand some we have a thousand single family office only money that's my's my point. In that, in the US, we should move that troll somebody. Town council, and it's actually one thing, get it in the letter, gotcha. So I wanna underline something, comps out as well that the town is doing fine work for things we can control. Right. And so anywhere that we can affect change, outside of where the town controls. So Darryl and I had a conversation, I'm going my outside of the AAB, but I had a conversation last week about how we can continue to partner on water efficiency. And if he's going to come with a plan that was 99% baked and all I have to say is cool, talk to these people and we'll get it done. That's not a word of aiding here. It's like how to get the people who are not paying attention, not worth millions. Yes. and all I have to say is cool, talk to these people and we'll get it done. That's not what we're debating here. We're debating how to get the people who are not paying attention, not worth paying. Yeah, exactly. The sound's easy. It's got money that's right in sanction, right? It's everything else. I apologize, I have to run. That's okay, thank you. Thank you so much for coming. I was just gonna come up with a little bit of a plan, Tom, if you can stay for one more minute. Can we make it a goal? And I'm happy to be the person to send up the emails each week just to say, have you completed your section? And if you're blocked by something, please tap someone to help you. And so that way we can, I recognize this as a volunteer board and so everything ebbs and flows from day to day week to week month to month and I think everyone can appreciate that. So if if you are limited on time, have someone else help everyone please review the document by week, let's say week two or week three, and we'll just see how the document is shaping up with the goal of having it to Tom to look at before the next meeting, so that in the next meeting, we can finalize the document to then give to town council. Can that be our timeline that everyone is comfortable with? That was good. That was good. And Jamie, you can add in number six. Yeah, I can do the language. Yeah. That would be great. I don't know if I saw this document. Yeah, so I would just need to make sure I, you know, it got shared with me, but I'd be happy to help out with some language on the built environment. Perfect. I just added you to the document. So what you guys are doing is great. This is why I wanted to be on this board because you guys are doing a great job. It's really important. Are you planning on coming back? Never. Yeah, I'm sorry. Like a regular, yeah, yeah. OK, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's really valuable. All right. I guess. Sorry. Thanks. Thank you so much. Okay. So should we wrap up 5b and move on to the last item and maybe even a journey? We're really unfair. Sure. And if we complete, then as a bonus for everyone, we can have a happy hour at the end of our last or next meeting. How is that? We can plan it. Do it. Perfect. I will bring pre-made cocktails. All right. Perfect. So what's the last? Just approving. What are we? I don't have it in front of me. Sorry. 106. Oh. Well, 106. I think the same thing is true. Why don't we just go and have some improved language made to that section and then everyone can reveal. Does that work? That would be because we talked about it. Is that Andrew? Is that on Andrew? I was an Andrew Okay. Okay. What's the next agenda, item? That's it. Next meeting is April 1st. So mark a calendar. Well, it's already marked. It should be on your calendars. April 1st, same time, same place. Wonderful. If worth noting for the board benefit, that I will be out of the office for about two weeks here starting next week. So if I am not responsive or less than responsive, that's because I am in a very different times. So. Oh, you enjoy your time away. Thank you. He's going to be hanging upside down on the bottom side of the planet. Another hemisphere. I'm going to New Zealand. Oh, everyone's going to New Zealand right now. It's crazy. Enjoy it. Yeah, I did you not get the memo? I did it. But I a lot of stuff goes to spam these days, so I'll just play them on that. Oh, there we go. Awesome. Okay, well, then I call to a journey in the meeting at 649 or sorry, it's 449 where you are 449 PM. Awesome. Thanks everyone. Great. Thanks. Thank you. you you you you you you you you