Okay, welcome ladies and gentlemen to the Dunnell and City Council workshop meeting, our 6-5-30 edition. If you would join me for the Pledge of Allegiance. Is there anyone in the audience? is there any audience you would like to offer an opening prayer? Seeing no one, we will observe a moment of silence. Thank you. Thank you. Madam Clerk. Mayor Gray. Here. Vice Mayor Anzuki. Here. Councilman Dunn. Here. Councilman Lehman. Here. Councilwoman Hanchard.char. Here. Shalom acclaimed finance officer. Here. Shadward Public Works Manager. Here. Michelle Leonard Assistant Clerk. Here. Captain Bray. Here. City Attorney Andrew Hand is attending via Teams remotely. The agenda for this meeting was posted on the city's website and the City Hall bulletin Board. Monday, February 24th, 2025, and amended on Tuesday, February 25th to add backup to items number 6A, 6B, and remove item 6D. And on Wednesday, February 26th to update backup to item 6A. And on Thursday, February 27th, to add back to item number 3A. Do we have anyone signed up to comment, Mandy? Art Jones. Welcome, Art. Hello, everybody. Art Jones, 1, 2, 1, 6, 3. Pal, that away. There we go. Just a quick reminder, we've got the cleanup happening Thursday 9 AM to 11 AM at the city beach. So if you have time to be there, please come out and help. But the main thing I wanted to talk about is I put in an application in for a special permit to use Ernie Mills Park. We were talking about it at the Chamber the other day about it's kind of a nice park. Maybe we should use it for something. And I've come up with an idea for a Dunnellan Springs festival. And we're planning on having it July 5th and 6th. That's 4th of July weekend. So 4th of July's on the 4th, and then Saturday and Sunday we'll have the festival. So we won't interfere with anybody's fireworks displays or anything like that. And so we can have that festival. It's be a two day festival with food, music, crafts, games, beer and Wine. We're planning the dates. Saturday 11 a.m. to 10 p.m. and then Sunday 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Smoked ribs, barbecue chicken, pulled pork, burgers, hot dogs, corn on the cop, Ted Zalabake beans lemonade, fresh ice cream. So we wanted to be a real fourth of July event. And we have vendors there and Sunday morning we're going to have pancakes and sausage breakfast and fresh floor to orange juice. We're planning to have a pickleball tournament, a cornhole tournament, a horseshoe tournament, and a free throw basketball contest. We'll plan on using the cornhole right on the basketball courts and then move that out of the way every couple hours so they can do some free throw contest. And then we're planning to have a poker run, a kayak poker run, a Saturday 6 p.m. till 8 p.m. Because that's when all the tubers are out of the river so they can launch it at Blu-Ron and then go down and we'll have kayaks down there where they pick up different playing cards and come back and for the poker tournament. And then we'll have it again Sunday morning 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. So a couple of things real quick. The horseshoe tournament that we want to have. We're looking at the park and there's actually a spot behind the basketball courts where we could put in some horseshoe lanes Maybe two nice pits and I'm thinking maybe we could make it permanent You know where you measure it out just right you put in the stakes you build the backdrop and stuff and then after the events over It's still there where people can bring their own horseshoes and practice. So that's one of my thoughts and we want to check out all the electrical at the park, make sure everything's working. We'll pay any extra for electric charges that's incurred by the city. Looking at some of the lighting, just want to make sure all the lighting is working. There, the concession stand, I was just talking to Kathy, maybe do a little cleanup of the concession stand. I don't think it's really been used in quite a while, but the countertop out front needs to be scraped and cleaned and repainted and stuff. And then we want to put up with cooling tent. It's going to be 4th of July. It's going to be hot, right? But we're all here anyway, right? It's hot. We like hot sometimes. So we could put up a cooling tent and then bring in some extra tables and chairs for people to eat and stuff like that. So we're still gathering all the information we need for the application. We're working on the site plan, getting our liquor license and parking plan and all those things are still working it on. Mr. Mayn. Thank you. for the application we're working on the site plan, getting our liquor license and parking plan and all those things are still working it on. Mr. Man. Any questions for our repair? Or who's putting this on? One rake at a time. Oh it is, okay it's one rake at a time. Yeah, one rake at a time is hosting it. Yeah. So we're gonna charge $5 to get in. Thank you, that was my next. So all the food will be free or you have to buy the food. Food will be additional. Oh, OK. Here, the $5 to get or you have to buy the food. Food will be additional. Oh, okay. Yeah, the $5 to get in basically helps pay for the event. We're getting a quote on insurance and stuff like that. And we'll bring in some extra port of toilets and things like that. And pay the musicians on the stage. We've lined up a local person to line up some good music force. We're trying to get everything as local as we can. And the food is the same way. Local. up a local person to line up some good music for us. We're trying to get everything as local as we can. And the food is the same way. Local caterer, it kind of be like catered. No food trucks. No food trucks are anywhere. Just catered. So it's not these big trucks running with a diesel going. Sounds like fun. Yeah. Yeah. Just this. Yeah. Thank you very much, Art. Yeah, it's like a good event. I hope it will be. I've got some extra things if you want an outline on it to hand out to the C council. Let's see. Give me a hand. If you have any questions, come in please feel free to contact me. I will be working with Chad on a couple of issues. Talk about the horseshoe event. I think it would be kind of cool to put in some permanent pits there. We'll take a look at it and see what everybody thinks. All right. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate the effort. Anyone else signed up, Mandy? Is there any one of the audience who would like to address this workshop? Yes, Kathy. Kathy Dunn, 113 at 600th drive. I was gratified to see that Chad trim the early Agnes on San Jose. And these are things I really noticed. The thing that happened was that the fence that is so nice on San Jose that Waters Blue Run Park is now falling down partially. I could send you a picture and I will if you would like it. But I wanted to inquire who will be fixing that fence? Will it be the County Commission or will it be the city? And if I need to go to the County Commission, I will and ask them to fix it. But I wondered who the lay is on was with Chad and who will be fixing that because it is so cute and I think it should be maintained. But I appreciate Chad trimming that iliagnus. Thank you. Chad, do you have any idea what kind of expense we would wise it would take to repair it. Well, that'd be good. Any other comments that in line with Council on that? I think that would be a starting point. So we'd have some idea of what kind of expense and time wise it would take to repair it. Well, that'd be good. Any other comments that in line with Council on that? Yeah I'm going to take a look at the agreements. We've been talking with the county. We're trying to get back off of it since they receive all the revenue. We'll take a little bit of remiss to what the agreement says. Let's try to do what you requested, but I think it should fall on the county to keep that park up. Okay, well, we can do that. But the first step I'm, Tim, I'm sure you agree with, let's figure out exactly what we're looking at. Oh, I'm good with that, right? Okay, all right. I, I, I, we, Council certainly takes it in a by, I think what you're suggesting. And that's it. We all understand that. That's a suggestion. Okay. Well, you know what? Let me backtrack. You know, there's we talking to you. what you're suggesting. And I'm sure if we all understand that then that suggestion. Okay. Well, you know what? Let me backtrack. You know, as we talk, we get much time to think here. Would it make sense if I reached out to the county through Mandy? Something like that work with Mandy, reach out to the county, explain to them about the fence. So we're not just, and if they take it on, then we're not exercising Chad to get numbers. We could do that. I was just trying to get something to ballpark figure. So we have somebody that we're talking about. That's all I was trying to do. Gotcha. Let's use our local first, and then if we need to go into the county, then it'll take you 15 minutes. Well, that would give you something, him, to work with. That Chad had looked at it and it was what kind of expense we're talking about. And they would, I'm sure they would rely on Chad's advice. And maybe it's something to work with. Yeah, normal, good. OK. Is it our fence or is it county fence? Or is it that's what nobody knows? That's always the debate. That's always the best. I just want to show you the way. The best. The best. Or is it that's what nobody knows that's always the debate who that's always I just want to say The fence you know the fence but right now we're just establishing that the fence needs to be needs some repairs Right and we've asked Chad okay to make an assessment as to what it would cost How much time it would take an expensive for putting it back in order? That's all I that. Okay. Okay. And then Tim's brought up, as he mentioned earlier, I'll just paraphrase it. Maybe we would go to the county with it once we establish a ballpark of what we're talking about. And it would be helpful to have some pictures to send to Mr. Kuhiart too. Yeah. Chad is that something that's possible? I hear, all right, Chad is nodding so we'll take that as a positive. Um, got it, you might take the pictures and see. Cool. Well, the picture is available. That's cool. I've got the picture also in the chair. Okay. And maybe I have a husband. I'm going to have a presentation. I'm going to have a presentation. I'm going to have a presentation. I'm going to have a presentation. I'm going to have a presentation. I'm going to have a presentation. I'm going to have a presentation. I'm going to have a presentation. I'm going to have a presentation. I'm going to have a presentation. I'm going to have a presentation. that hasn't spoken to this workshop? I don't have anyone else signed up. Anybody from the audience, now's your time. Don't see anybody. Mayor, I had asked that number 6C be moved up before item number 4, but considering that there's no one here from the chamber, I would recommend that we go ahead and allow Mr. Esom to speak to you about the pension more recommendations. Item 6C. Is there any objection from the council that we move item 6C to the current item to be discussed? No, that's fine. Okay, we'll do that then. If you look at your agenda, ladies and gentlemen, item 6C is fire and police pension board recommendations, plan enhancement. And we have a representative here, Mr. Eusson. Well, he's coming up, if I can now speak for the DCBA for the Chamber. Judy had surgery and it affected her voice. And so she can hardly speak. She was reached out to see if somebody else could come represent her, but something fell through the crack. And as you can see, nobody's here. I would say Tim, and I'm sure you thought of this. Maybe we could delay it and have it at the council meeting next week. Maybe things would be better than. So I have the chamber meeting tomorrow night. I'll write that. Okay. That would give us the benefit of the chamber before. Next week at the council meeting. It's a pleasure to see you here, Mr. Eastern. Pleasure to be here. Thank you. Good evening, Mayor Green and members of the council. I'm Jay Eason. I am a participant on the board for the fire release pension for about 20 years. It started with about a million dollars, little less actually several years ago and I think it's over 20 now. And I've watched it under the careful management of the Florida League of Cities grow to approximately 4 million. And I believe we have two fire pyres and two policemen that are currently drawing from the fund. We have three that have a qualified benefit that are not presently drawing the will one day, and then we have seven that are participating in the plan. The plan, it has had success periodically gets reviewed by an actual firm that indicates the health and the quality of the fun and the exposure that we have if we make changes in the benefits. And the current benefits are substantially different than those, for example, from a state public safety job. So in the course of our meeting, it was brought up and agreed upon that some enhancements and the benefits of once again, are worthy. And this happened probably about pre-COVID, about six or seven years ago, we looked at it, with all the things that were going on. It just didn't go anywhere. But our attempt is to introduce you to the guy, the according to the Actual Service, the plan is capable of offering a better benefit, something that is more competitive that can attract and retain the employees that they have and overall compete with other employers. So. All right. To give an example, I've got some historical information. The current multiplier, the average high five multiplied times the current multiplier of 2.5 would be enhanced at 3.5 is the proposal that we wanted to consider. There is no cost of living adjustment now, but looking at 3% which would compete well with the state plan. Keep the 10 year besting and it's presently 25 and out and go to 20 and out for retirement. That's basically where we're at with the plan and our purposes to just be more competitive with employers that do the same thing. And that would be the sheriff's office, any other state positions. But according to the actuarial plan, it would not have a negative effect on the plan or it would not bring any unacceptable risk to the plan. And we have that available to look at should this develop further. Captain Brady, would you like to add to that? Yeah, what I'm going to add is part of that is becomes the excise money that we get that sent to us from the state. That contributes to that plan. Currently, that's what prevents the liability from the city taxpayers. We're at a little bit at risk because the reason that's a benefit that comes to the city of Denel and to that pension plan is the fact that to enhance benefits for the beneficiaries. So if we continue not to enhance the benefits, then we would be at risk of losing that and keeping it a healthy thriving plan. So that's why from the pension boards point of view is looking at the enhancement of increasing it to 3.5 and also doing the 20 and out. makes it a very attractive profile for us to go out when we look for other officers. However, it still keeps the city protected for any future potential liabilities because it would not exceed. And Mandy correct me if I'm wrong, but the way it is now is that excise money goes to cover city liabilities if they have to contribute anything. And then anything above that then would go to the plan itself, correct? Correct. So there is that buffer there, but if we don't enhance the benefits, then we are at risk of the state saying, you're not doing anything to enhance the plan, so're going to move it elsewhere. Move it elsewhere as into another agency. They would move the annual contribution that they give from that exercise. Okay, that's not. Make sure I understand. Sorry. So, that's why this has come to kind of a point where it came up to a topic of conversation where some action needed to be proposed. Now I think between the two of us, we can answer any of your questions that you might have. Okay, Valor. Jay knows a lot more about it than I do. I just remember this topic coming up a few years ago and I was on council and I went to the meetings and there's no cost to the citizens of the Nellin Torra taxpayer. That is correct. I know I'm repeating myself. I don't make sure I'm totally getting a Valerie in her standing. So I really don't see the negative in any of this. I mean, basically, and it does the people, the two police officers and the two firemen that are already on the program do not get any additional funds from this, correct? It doesn't reach back. It doesn't reach back, yes, thank you. Okay. And we lifted that before and it was thought that basically by all the rules. Okay. Okay. That's the way you understand that. Yes, and I talked to Jeremy about that a little bit today and he said that he would have to reach out to the pension attorney just to verify that but he did not think that it was allowable to go back and affect those that were already collecting or who had already invested and retired. Right. Okay. And the, do we have anybody, I remember the information that I'm going blank on it, I apologize. Do we have anybody that's coming up on that 20 year mark that would be able to retire out? No. Okay. We do have two people or three people that are vested at the 10 years? Yes. Okay. We have That are not currently employed Right, but that have vested in our eligible to collect from the plan at some point in the future. Oh, okay, so. Yeah. But that was already calculated in. That is correct. And the way Jeremy said that probably the easiest way to explain it is right now, if you paid out everything that you owe to every vested participant in the plan, you would still have $1.6 million left in the account. So if you calculated, you know, what is the lifetime benefit that would be paid out to anyone that is invested, whether they're collecting that retirement now or not. If you paid it out in the lump sum, you still have $1.6 million in surplus. Okay. I's the same. Okay. Rick? Okay, I'm going to have... Assuming if down the road in two years, if we decide to move our police department to Marion County, would there be enough money then in the account to pay the people, according to what she said, there'll be enough money to pay for the pensions for the people who are here who are already in the account. You're talking about to pay the pension out in full? No, no. To continue payments. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. Yes, and that's the challenge that we have right now is because it is so overfunded. And you're saying that we need to increase the benefit just so I understand because if we don't stay affordable, so you're overfunded and they'll take the contribution you've been getting. Correct. To keep the growth that's been in there. And the last question is, is it, if we would have the $1.6 million, at the end of the tenure of the pension if our police officers go to Marion County and there's nobody else. Where does the $1.6 million go then? I'm going to defer to Mandiel net. We asked that question and I think they said it had to sit there for it was like for a period of time. As strong as the benefit. Yeah. Yes. So whoever is currently eligible to collect from the plan, we will still have to have. We have to meet all the statutory requirements to chapter 185. Right. And have our quarterly meetings. We'll still have to have a board of trustees. And follow all of those mandatory statutory requirements until the last participant and the plan is dead. But then at the end of it, if it's like you said, if you had to pay everything else, we'd still have $1.6 billion who gets that money. That money, if we don't allocate that at least a portion of that money now to increase the benefit level, we would have to go back if there were, and this was another question I asked you, I mean that he's going to follow up on. If at some point we do not have any employees of the police department. And we do have a surplus. Can we take that money and increase the retiree benefits? And I don't know if there's another somewhere, Jay, when we said the way we're doing it now, I don't know if we're in that situation, but Jeremy's going to research that. If we're in a situation where we have no employees and we have a surplus, the only people that could benefit from that I hate saying the plan are the retirees could we then maybe give them a cola I don't think it will reach back to any president retired person it will be the first time I've ever heard of that yeah and And you need to talk into the mic, sorry. Yeah. And Jeremy said that he that's what he believes, but he's going to do some further investigating to see if there's some sort of ruler. I've worked with probably a dozen plans over the last 20 years. And I've not seen one that that will reach back unless there's some particular Florida law that would allow it. And he's thinking that it may be only in a like an extenuating circumstance. Like you didn't have a police department anymore. Would there be some sort of provision? That'll be interesting to find out since we've kind of looked at that before and other circumstances. But it came back to us that that was not a possibility. But if it is, we would certainly want to do everything we can for our policeman environment that it worked in the Nellin. And I know that we've been fortunate over the years that the city has not had to contribute to the fund and all the years I've been here. And the Florida League of Cities has been reasonable in fees and they've done a good job building the fund. And I think we probably have a few more officers than we had in the beginning. I think there were only four or five maybe and then five police, five firemen. I think it was less than 10 when it first started. That was just the roster of employees. But it's something we can do and not jeopardize the fund in any way. And the valuation says that that's possible, and it's something that would great to entertain. In particular for those that are loyal to the department, they've been there and they're getting close somewhere, somewhere drawing, somewhere waiting to draw and then there's some arriving and I think people would be more likely interested in staying longer and that would help the department. Correct. Did you have anything else? No, I just remember when I retired, when we had a COLA, but we had active a COLA and I don't know, I don't recall if they were allowed to go back to all the prior employees and apply to COLA to them so I can call them find out from the pension system. I mean. Okay. Anything else? Tim? Yeah, what I want to do is make sure that we keep it safe so our taxpayers don't end up absorbing anything in the future. So I'll cut my questions. What interest rate, you know what interest rate that the actuary is using to forecast the future? Seven percent. And they've been successful returning that. And how many years are they using to go back to determine that? Usually you look at it one five or ten, but I think you would find that they've done that probably 90% of the time. Okay, which is going to lead my other comment. So in that time frame, the economy has been very good. So, part of the issue I have is the actuary forecasts are based on very good economical years. At some point, it's probably going to turn. And I just want to make sure that it's safe, that the other side of the coin does arrive, that there's enough money in there to take care of the retirees. But we haven't thought about the aspect of a poor economy and then not making the hitness 7% whatever their forecast is and then the city would end up having taxpayers would end up having to foot the bill. I've got confidence in the margin because we've never had to contribute to the plan and it's grounded at a level just by the general growth. So I believe that that's a part of the valuation and we can surely share a copy of that with you. What makes the plan grow other than contribution from the employees? Management. It's well managed. It started with about 700 and I'm guessing that I'm sure I'm close around $787,000. Okay, so they invest the money? Is that what they do? The part of League of Cities is a not for profit.profit. Is that the Red Mandi? They're not-for-profit as far as I understand. Is it possible I could get them to invest my money? Well, you know I'm going to draw on that earlier than 30 years, 20 years. But we get about $50,000 a year from the Exiles Tax Revenue. So that $50,000 is also contributing to that surplus. That's 50 some odd thousand a year. Okay, that comes from the state. Right. Okay. So I'm just going to be saying, good questions. If we do get into poor economic times, and we see that the, right now when I do the math on the preferred option that you're all talking about looks like it would leave about 750K left over about 747.50 something like that so roughly half if we look like we're starting to eat in if we go with the preferred option and we see in years that it's starting to eat up into that 750k, are with these plans, are they allowed to go backwards at some time? At some point? I'm going to commit the benefit of not seeing one go back. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Thank you very much. Well, Trinity, answer your question back in 96. We had a drop program and they were going to change the drop. So as soon as they did that, like 130 people retired right away because they were going to see OAS in the drop program. So I don't know if that's still applied to the pension because I know that there are two separate things. But generally, from what I've seen, they, when the unions go into negotiate, and they negotiate for part of the pension, they can also change the multipliers because my son's on a fire department, and they've changed some of their multipliers. So probably at the end of the turn, we would be able to, with the board, as part of their package to negotiate a change in the pensions. Okay. I do have one more question, I think. So rather than going with the preferred option, if we drop down and went with one of the lesser preferred options, if we evaluate that for a year, two years, we see everything is fine. How often can this thing be bumped up? It comes before the City Council and if the Council approves it, it could be approved more than one time. I don't think there's a limit. That would be a good year for us. You could raise it to whatever you want now and then if two years later you say, you know, we raised it to 3.5 or 3.25 and we think we should have gone to 3.5 then you can always do that. It does require you to negotiate these with the union. Any change of benefits has to be negotiated through the club to bury the agreement. But you as a city council can increase the level of benefits using that surplus at any time in the future. and then how often do the actuaries and you all revisit this? Annually. And got you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I think the team's covered most of what I had. I just, I'm a numbers person, so I have to take things real slow. But it does look like we've got six hundred or excuse me 1.6, 7, 7 million dollars overfunded and the plan is not cost us anything. It also looks like if we go to 3.5 percent multiplier is going to cost us 467 thousand dollars. if we go to a 3% to COLA, that would be another $450,000. And like Tim says, we still are over-funded about $650,000. It's a way I look at this. So that means to me, all the numbers work out like they project, which I never have understood actually, it's just to be honest, we've followed them for 40 years. What this tells me is we still got over half a million dollars sitting here and they are still contributing to it annually and it costin' us anything. They really got to miss these numbers to miss a half million dollars. It's my reaction. I see nothing wrong with doing the whole thing. And again, if it would help whatever happened to our police, I think is good. And police doesn't work out and really, and it causes all his money in it. But what does bother me is the fact we're sitting on 1.6 million dollars in the state or somebody could come here and say, you don't need any more money. And I can see that happening. They can reach back. Well, that's what's bothering. I mean, I sit down when I sit down when I first paragraph and I saw how much overfunded this thing was and there's no liability I'm sitting there going. Oh we can. Like we just met those dollars then. Yeah. And again if we have a place farmer, right. If we end up without one, well, this is going to be sitting here forever anyway. And unlike what I understand about these things usually, you've got to keep the plan up until the last person's dead. And that's where these things go on to ever. And I don't move any other way to get these things out. So I'd say, well, seriously think about doing this. And that's just my reaction. Thank you. Any other questions? Well, Jay, your recommendation in your study on this is very important to me. I know all the years you have served this board. And you're well aware of the circumstances and its timid, and sometimes times are good, sometimes are bad. I can remember when they were very bad here and things were really bad. So there has been some balance as far as the equilibrium of the good to years and the bad years. It's not like it's all forecasted over just the last four, five years that we've seen so much growth And interest rates climate as good man It has low fees and The Florida League of cities They offer a workshop that you can go to and learn more about basically Florida it has to do with the fire and the police and the pension fund and you visit and you hear from speakers and I hear lots people talking about their underfunded. Oh, yeah, I was pretty normal if you've been to one of them and We're not and that's a good example of careful choices and management and everyone You know basically looking at these things routinely. And I think this is the first time we've ever asked for an increase. So something is certainly worthy and do. I hope we can do something and appreciate you all listening for it. And if I can provide any other additional information, I'll dig it up if I don't have it. Go ahead, Jim. Do you represent any other cities? No. Only Dunne Island. Actually, I do not have any management on the fund. I'm just a volunteer on the board. Gotcha. You're just like us. And for many years, Sam, many, many years, Jay has done this. Okay, got you. I have many years of advice. I can recognize good and solid management and good choices. Awesome. The Florida League of Cities was always there. And, uh, Mandy, uh, has kept everything running and working with them has been a pleasure. And everything gets done on time. And I don't think you will find anything that hasn't been appropriately addressed in the actual report. Okay. It includes mortality, all of those things that come into play when deciding how long those funds will last. And it is done every year. I don't think we've missed a year, have I, man? You know, no. No. Well, I understand world of funded. Because one of my questions was going to lead to. OK. And you may or may not know this answer. Are there any cities out there that the Florida League of Cities manages also that are underfunded that you know of? Yes. And is it due to something on the city's fault or do you know? I think probably they haven't always been with Florida League of Cities. You don't have to be. And I know that a couple other small cities around here were not. But those that, I think the Florida League of Cities has enough attention to exactly what they need to do. They have managed it with millions and millions of dollars and the purple who is well adjusted, they're on top of it. They make choices, they bring it to a sonar quarterly meeting. We took a real estate position and it could have done better, but that is what was appropriate at the time. Sure. But it wasn't detrimental to the plan. They chose the appropriate percentage and we're just we're working through that right now. So, but it didn't do anything to the plan that would cause it to be in jeopardy or concern. Everything will not always be a problem. Yeah, anybody's a vest, it knows that. But it's been a pleasure to be a part of it all these years. I think it's time to build a little more competitive like public safety for state of Florida. And I work with a lot of state of Florida employees. And no public safety has a 3% multiplier and then 25 years they're out and then they've got five years of drop. Well we can't offer a drop. So if we could offer somewhat of an enhanced benefit, I think it would be a very positive thing for the department. Okay. To be able to do that. Thank so much, Jerry. Thank you, Ron. Is there anybody else in any other question? I just want to thank Jay for all of his years of service doing all this volunteer work. So thank you for your time and your expertise. It's greatly appreciated. We certainly appreciate it, Jay. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll now go back to our agenda. And we will resume. Mr. Mayor, so are we gonna put that on the agenda for next Wednesday to be approved? Well, the council is, is that something you want to suggest? I suggest. Oh, well, Mandy would suggest something that I want to suggest. There we go. We have our first collective bargaining session on March the 17th. So we would present this to the union at that time. Whatever it is that the council is in favor of. So I will need some direction from you as far as you know are you going to go with the recommendation of the pension board or are you going to take one of the other options in lieu of what they recommended but I need some direction from council what you want to consider so that I know that on the 17th when I meet with them. We'll start out now. I would like to go with as presented. As Rick. I just want to make sure because there's a couple of there's the preferred one that's Got you Concerns questions no not really Especially if Wally I mean your your expertise is I'm not an expert with pens pensions, but every company I've worked for had them. To find one overfunded is like he's a rare unusual one. The fact that this one is so overfunded, again it flips my mind over. Can be called as money back. And again, Tim, I think you went there to know, because I went through them real quick, just sitting here, we still got over half million dollars and really like $600,000 left if we take this option. And again, I think if all goes to heck, and we can change it later, but I don't see how it would ever get to where we know any money right now with this amount. I mean, if we were talking about a couple hundred thousand dollars total and this was going to really eat into it down to zero, I'd be a little concerned. But we do all this, give them all these benefits. I think we need to really think about doing it. I mean, that was my reaction, once I saw that, but I'm over and off to this. Anything further to you? You know, I'll just leave it at. I'm not a fan of actuaries by any means. I think sometimes they get too close. I don't even sure how to say this politely. But it doesn't sound like Jay Leibis. Is the, Ron is the actuary, the Florida League of Services, or is the actuary in somebody else's pocket? They hire the actuary. It's actually Southern Actuarial Services that performs the evaluation. Okay. They have to be independent. Yes. It's to be. Right. Um, you know, my numbers in like what's split here is my numbers come out a little bit higher than Wally that we have left over. I'm showing around 748K. With that said, I'm reluctant on the 7% blah blah blah but I won't waste everybody's time. I'm good with the preferred course. Well, there's your answer, Mandy. Thank you. Mine's a affirmative also. Okay, we've got that direction for our... We'll see if we can figure it out. I dislike actuaries even more. You know, well, they may hold up to that. Yeah. At least they're consistent that you're not. Like a way to deal with their ability. I've never had a little department explain me how this door. But they all say I'm hungry today. Well, then we'll, ladies and gentlemen, we'll go back to start at the item number four, Council agenda. Items for a liaison reports. Mayor, if we could back up the 3B, we're going to defer 3A to the council meeting next week. So that we need to address 3B. This is the alcohol waiver that's requested by the BCBA for Boomtown on April 12th from the hours of 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. This is what we do every year, pre-standard where we waive the open container restrictions for the event and if you're okay we can just put this on a consent agenda. Any objection? That's fine, Mandy. Thank you. Anything else on that Boomtown? That the only thing we had. That's it. Don't come on the agenda. All right. Now we're going to the last sign reports. Lest on a sign. Excuse me. It's been a while since we've had a full council and this is the first time we've had five serving in a while. And of course we've've had an election, and now we've got some new faces on the back on board here. And so we need to try to work on assignments. Does anybody have any suggestions? Valorant, do you want to start? As you usually do? No. That's just because you started this thing way. I like that. I started it in that I love being involved. I know I don't want to step on any toes. I like being on TPO. I miss it. I know I have the second for right now, the alternate. I mean, I'd like to do it, but I don't know where Tim is in that aspect of it with Well, I can go to him now and let him speak What we're talking about Tim is a TPO right with the TPO with that stuff because I'm a liaison for Public works roads and all that so they tie hand-in-hand And same thing like Valor I enjoy the TPO meeting. And I actually get ready to walk down, Chad don't know I've got him and I were getting ready to walk down the intersections. Rob Bonds came to us and by March 31st we got to get on the list for the Fusial list for the state and County Roads. We don't have anything in that aspect, but Rob mentioned that. Rob is the TPO director. He mentioned intersections can be part of that also. So driving around town, I can notice the intersection at West Penn and Cedar Street. It looks the whole dang thing is sinking down for some reason. So that's what queued me and I'm going to drive around the city with Chad. Go look at different county state intersections and start getting that put in the plan. But I mostly enjoy the TPO meeting. So. Well, I'll stay on all for now. I mean, let's have my ultimate be out for now. Thanks, Tim. Well, is that your old agreement to that, then? That sounds good. That's agreeable with you, Valerie. Yes, Tim. But if you can't get off with him, I'll get off with him. All right. There we go. I need the extras. I need steps. What about Chamber? Tim? Tim do you want to continue at the Chamber? Yeah, I enjoy Chamber. Volunteer for them a lot, too. Oh, good. Anybody else have a problem with that? Or have a recommendation? OK. Swiss mud is vacant. I have worked with them a lot in the past with grants. I don't mind trying to do that. That's okay with council. It would be wonderful. Man, anybody have an objection to that? Nestle? That would be wonderful. I'll do that. County Commissioner, Alternate is Tim. How about our former TPO chairman, she interested in Mr. Question, to Valerie. Yeah, I'm thinking. The evenings are better for me just because, but what's the top one, Sandy? Um, I'm going to ask you a because but what's the top one Sandy? Just our our local boards planning commissions historic board Sorry, and you are historic board. I am yes You are the liaison you were the one last appointed as a liaison to the historic board. Okay. I also did not know that. And Rex is planning commission liaison. And then the which is part of the TPA is a staff member and Chad is the liaison for that. I just wonder if I can do the county commissions 90 am over there. I mean I don't like if you can't I can do that. I went to a couple of make-up on the mayor and I don't mind going back and you ride it it's nine o'clock. Well, I can't make it If you want to keep that out. I went to a couple of making one on the mayor, and I'm going back and you ride it, it's nine o'clock. Well, I can, it's just working. No, no, I'm retired. Well, what if I make a suggestion, Wally, would you take the lead on it and then let Valerie be the subject to? Sure. And then it didn't work, we all could work together on that. About that, now? That's fun, and most frex wanted to. Frex? No, I mean the barfesh. No, Rex wants to sleep there. That's the only thing I want. I'm just a message. All right. We got the chamber. We got that. Tim, do you want to keep doing that? I threw, yeah, no, but not just like y'all know. I mean, oh, I'm good staying there, but it's really a non-position. Hey, no, but not just like y'all know. I mean, I'm good staying there, but it's really a non-position. And in the terrorist development council, the city position right now, it's city of Bellevue as the number one spot. And at that time, I presume they'll stay on that job. And Rex, do you mind being the backup? Yeah, that's fine. Okay, so here in that, the school board and our local agreement, you're going to continue to that. All right, OK. There's one that I'd like to suggest to the council. I think would be a good idea. I'd like to serve as a liaison for the police department. I think that would be a good step for us. It's really a routine that I'm familiar with since I've had a lot of discussions as far as what we're doing currently. And I have a good working relationship with our sheriff, the county commissioners, and our local police department. And I think that would serve a good role role for the mayor. I just have a comment to make to that. I am heavily involved in the research, exchange of information meeting with this whole Marion County chair of thing. And I do not plan on getting backing up on that one Iota as far as my involvement. It would have no effect on your involvement, Tim. And that's just, I don't want to be forward. No, no, no. As a council member, you have every opportunity to participate in any level you wish. And we all do. But what this would mean is that for official presentations and officials things they would come through the council of course and then I would be the last sound to the police. That'd be wonderful. That's what I'm trying to say. And as in May I think that's okay. Well in most of our cities around Williston's the same way. O'Calla, the police department actually reports to the mayor. Right. So what we're doing is, I think it kind of puts a point person there in the center seat to not only be the last on, but be the point person for us. Right, great. That's what's the goal. Yeah. Okay. We have the EOC on there. We don't do it. The EOC? No, EOC. Emergency operation center. I know it's you, but if you're not a brand, I'd love to do it. I'd like to go into the EOC. Don't even ask me why. I think it's fine. I was like, I was like, I was seeing how it all works during these emergencies and seeing all the different teams I know a lot of the people they are in. I just think it's just Yeah, it's just very interesting Is any problem with that the I guess I'm confused Well, we would have an emergency emergency management director It's always appointed in the city right now. It's our chief of police right person serving is our chief of police. Now that, so the lay us on actually when they declare a state of emergency, the governor declares it and the emergency management takes over from the county. The city of Dunnellan has a participating role in that as the city of Belleview, the city of Ocala, the school board, and we have a designated position whenever things are in emergency. So this would be the seat that's occupied by an elected representative of the city. I see. So I did it when I was a mayor. Yeah, and I had done it. We had some hurricane and we all met over the center and at the sheriff's office. But is it amazing just like all the people that I was sure to think about the buses? The last time I was there for 28 hours straight. I did do that one. I think I will have everybody to that. Yeah, well while you, two hours, it would probably be a blessing compared to 28 hours. I was glad to get out of there. I'm not sure you. I was glad to be there and do my job, of course. But 28 hours is a long time. I needed some rest. I was here. But who wants to do this? You want to do it? Well, usually the mayor goes. Well, that's what I was like. I just said if he's not available, I wouldn't mind being the one to go. Well, then I will do it. I will do it. Well, if you want me to do it as our city has done in the past and then be the backup. Yeah, yeah. I'm not that lazy. And again, if you don't want to go, then you say, Valerie, did you move it? All right. I'll run into a 28-hour deal. I'm getting it to Mandy to make the pole hole. Two hours, you'll leave it all. Yeah, I know where I can get a two-hour volunteer. At the end of this, what's that? That's all ready, I'm good. OK, so Valerie made it my backup then for that. Okay. Is there any other appointment? Mandy that we've overlooked. Now we got them covered. Yeah. So just to confirm, planning commission, councilman Lehman, you want to stay? Leleary's on to the planning commission? Yeah. commission. Councilwoman Hanchar, you want to stay the I will not realize I was there. My apologies. I think we have it all covered. To say. Okay. Anything else on this? If we put it on the floor, we'll be able to one, two, three. Anything else on this? Are we pretty well covered at Mandy? Yes, sir. All right. Well, then we'll move on now. CRA grant program. Tim, did you want to lead off on that or who's going to? Well, did you? Mandy sent the file out. It's the same one that kind of me kicking this can down the road a little bit. So nothing has really changed what it comes down to is basically everybody reviewing that file. And things that from other cities that do things, see if that's stuff that we want to put in in our plan. The, the probably the biggest thing I got is we need somebody as in, right, to sign off all what a blighted property is. We spent this money basically on maintenance and we're not allowed to spend it on maintenance. So we got to keep in mind that as a CRA board, we don't get to make decisions outside the statuettes and we could lose the CRA funding if we are. So I know two routes that went on that were 100% maintenance, not polite. We need to get a description of polite, et cetera, and some of the things that are uptight highlighted in yellow, like et cetera, from other cities. And they explain what a polite rule would be. It's got to have holes in it. It's got to be a create a problem for the whole structure, et cetera, et cetera. That time stuff. And then, at least list that you brought the last meeting? And Mandy sent that whole thing out to everybody. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I got it. I don't know. But Mandy also electronically sent it to everybody in the email. So could we, because that's one thing I was going to ask to move forward on this. Could we make a point by the next workshop, maybe each one of us, put together all the lists you've got versus the current one and bring in our own recommendation of what it is and then at least we'll have recommendations that we can look at. Right. Yeah. Everybody have a stance on what they have positioned on each one of the topics and that makes sense. Well, I appreciate getting this information. Just one thing to be on the phone and spend all the time do it, but to have it already done so we can review it. It floats some ideas to close the board that we all need to consider. I think it's a good approach. Will I let you have anything on it? No, I would be what Dan put together. I think it's Rod on point. Right. I'm fine, sir. I mean, I wish I could, you know, I'd like to add something, but I couldn't find much to add. I just don't want to do the backwind as if somebody's house. Man, did you need some direction? I need to know what y'all are going to settle on, how we need to amend the document to bring it back to you for approval. I thought that's what we were doing tonight. But it's talking about finalizing some of these recommendations and given stasim direction on how you want to modify the grant program. I'm thinking that if we all write up something and there's bullet points, first thing we can do is we can look at everybody's program and see what everybody agrees on. So if everybody's got 20 things and say all of us agree on 10, we can take those out. Then we're only stuck with the minor points and then very much. Because for most of it, I think most us are all going to be on the same page. Right. Well I kind of thought that's what we'd already been doing. No. And that's what we did with this was to look at over and see if we wanted any additions or changes to this, right? I mean. Well this is stuff that is not in our program. In our program. We need to put something in. We need to all write something. So we have something to work from rather than a bunch of lists that we have our lists for working from. That's what I'm saying is by the next workshop if it may be forward and demanding and then she can look through a lot and sort of Well, I think that's kind of where we, this is supposed to be that tonight. Yeah, right. Does somebody have anything more? I don't have anything more to do. Right, that's not you, right. So if somebody has something more than this list. That was kind of what our project was already supposed to be. Right, exactly. No, and I'm telling you, I'm a fault, you know, you're not going to hear me see me throw a cast in these stones. No, I'm just saying to you, I don't understand what the reason was. Right, no, Mandy's correct. We were supposed to show up tonight and be ready. Hey, yeah, I agree with this one, not this one, this one here. We're not there, Mandy. You mean just on the list sheep from them, on the list sheep sent out? Right, unless somebody else has something more to add. I don't have a problem with that. I thought that this was about laying down the criteria that, like we said, about the maintenance. Like if you replace a roof, it's not maintenance. It's maintenance because they have to be replaced. Are we going to just cover it, like you said, to front windows. I thought that this was,'s what I thought we were discussing. I've got no problem with that list. Okay. Yeah. If you want to vote on that, that's fine. I've worked with that. That's fine. So, so let's set up. Let me make sure, because I might be getting my, my lists confused in my mind. So the list that you have up right now, this is the current grant process. The list that Tim provided us that we kind of went through and said yes, these would be good things to add. Right. That's right. What I did is Kelly sent out five cities, four cities, whatever she sent out. So I just went through all of their CRA, this very same document, except for their cities. And so anything that looked like that we didn't have in ours, okay, that looked like it might be reasonable to put in. I just copied and pasted it. And then next to the, in college, you see there, the city, we're the information. Came from case, somebody wanted to reach out and ask why. I went and looked at there as well. Well, let me ask you this. I think it's always important to reach out to our sister cities because they face the same problem. And that's one of the values far legal cities anyway. You're able to stay in communication with each other and in partnerships when you need each other. I would, I think Tim, if you, if you, you know, you initiated this and it's well taken by me, if you would go ahead, if you'd be willing to go ahead and give us what you would, as a member of the council, recommend that we adhere to in this. And then this would answer the question when Mandy is trying to get some direction. And then we can talk about it at the council meeting next Wednesday. Does that sound reasonable? Because somebody's either directly just comments. This is not a motion. and these would be recommendations from his homework that he would seem to be appropriate for what we're trying to achieve. But we would be able to add to it and discuss what his homework is indicated. In other words, it's not a not giving a blank check. You're giving the opportunity to summarize what he's achieved by contacting these other cities. Okay. And that would move us along. Is that sound reasonable? Mandy says we're not delaying for another month. Yes. So ideally what I had sort of anticipated, this discussion to be tonight was any comments on Tim's spreadsheet that was handed out at the last workshop and then emailed to everyone to review that if anybody had any comments I like it I don't like it I hate it scratch it added and if they have any additional comments to add or take away from the policy so that we could go ahead and start working on it, but I don't want to start making changes to it until everybody comes to an agreement on what those changes are going to be because I don't want five or six more versions of this out there. So if you want to take it to the next workshop and come back with what you all feel like needs to be modified and we can go through those points one at a time and if you come to a consensus then staff can update the policy and bring it back to you for approval and April. So that would be your recommendation. Let me ask you this, man. If I can. What I'm hearing, like I said, a lot of the stuff is just comments. Other stuff actually came from cities that make sense to incorporate. If you and I sat down and just made a, we'll bring data. Outline. Right. You know, we'll go through, make a copy, and call something else, and then go through, add this, add this, and then produce that at the next meeting, and see if anything that we added, anybody has any issues with that, then also we would have to do, if somebody had issues with it, and we agreed, okay, pull that, then also we've we got to do is delete it. Yeah that's okay. That's kind of what I was suggesting that we could do that and that would move it along rather than waiting another month. Is that is that sound reasonable? Well that has you meeting with Tim though. She's still smiling Tim. Don't worry it's gonna be okay. She has available 438-245 days. And you always love to spend time with our council members, always in enlightening time for her and her many duties. It's such a joy. Hear that, Tim? You don't hear that all the time. No, no, no. It's a joy. Right. Wow, I. Yes, well, it's kind of. I read all Tim Road, and I hit right on, you know, we met fixed maintenance. What are we doing? I mean, I like to that, what an intention. Right. Of what all this was. You did write a question here. Who's going to look, who's going out and looking at the projects and applying for the grants that do qualify? Who on our staff or our council's going to do that? I figured it was him. But there was no name here. Right, right, right. The historic, pretty sure the historic district makes their recommendation. If it's in the historic district then the applicant comes in, they make a presentation and they usually have photos that the historic board looks at. Okay. I don't know that anyone actually physically goes out and affects the property. If it not in the historic district if it's not in the historic district comes for the CRA board same thing you'll have An applicant that will make a presentation. You'll see photos before you Approved the grant award and then same thing before you approved the Reimbursement is you want to see the actor photos but in any case we've not had someone on staff that goes out and physically inspects the property. So if I remember the logic correctly somebody applies it goes to goes to Wint the Kelly. Kelly would come here, she would, if she agreed, she would recommend that the CRA improve it. And she was going by basically, she was going by basically a history what was done. And let's not work it out so well with the maintenance stuff. And so if we had somebody like Chad could go out there after the applicant applied and make sure that it does, you know, it is truly me stuff the definition of light. I'd like to work with Chad on that if he does does it because like I said I think that if we can divide it maybe we can put together a worksheet with pictures and it wears everybody go out with the same idea right right so one of us can go out and say okay this is this because the really hard part is going to be go by just, just like you said, the lady who came in for a windows. You know, she was asked about a couple meetings ago, but I talked to that lady. She's interested in redoing the whole house. She was just, that's what we're looking at is, what are you doing to the entire structure? And not and not just one item of it because that's the difference between maintenance and restoration. You don't replace the door to make it look better but not fix the rest of the house. So I think that that's where a lot of our, and I've actually got a friend of mine who and what the House of the houses for sale here because he knows that the money is available with his company to fix it up and he needs a lot of work. But that's what I think really you're right. The key is us first of all defining is his maintenance or is it the restoration? And then from there we can start looking at rather than the individual projects, the whole picture. But I would be willing to look at putting that together for the next meeting. And if it's, I don't know if it's, if we can do this, but if, when I get to put together, if I can send it to Mandy to send out to you just for review, so you all walk in, you've all, all well been able to see it. And two things now maybe Chad and depending who we ever get in for our community development manager that might that person might be able to go do that since that's the department that kind of handles the sea so that was just one thought. The second thought regarding you going with Chad or with whoever and making recommendations, I'm not saying this for you, it could be me. I'm worried that we're sitting somebody out that looks like to the public that the representatives from City Council or CRARA board are saying yes, you can do this where it still has to come in front of the five of us. So that would be my only, because it might not be you one day it might be, you know, Fred a stare who doesn't know anything. I just worry about the legality of that. And I don't know if I'm saying it the right way. Hi, Chad. I think I'll be part of the application process. And based on what you're talking about, the application, you get an eye attack potion. I would think it's a potion. Oh, yeah, when does the file work? You do the wall. That's where I'm trying to come in. Right. So then you go look at the place and say, you fall on high school. Right. So until we have that signature, it, the community development would never cannot come to us and recommend one way or another. Until that one is signed off saying that it's, that it's blank. I would be scared for any of us as a kid. I'm good with that. I'm good with what you're saying, right? And any get a tour of I'm good with that. I'm good with what you're saying, right? And any get a tour of a liability issue for us. Because you could say, well, if you do the three windows over here, you'll be fine. And we all say, hey, yeah, we're not doing those three windows. Thank you. Right. why we need to get definitions then. Alright, so everybody's on the same page and then nobody can... That's what I'm saying. We're actually going to do windows. It's got to be tied to the rest of the structure. But it has to be tied to the statuette, which is blight. Yeah. Yeah. So I appreciate that. But I just think that's putting in another big one with these grants is that it is supposed. There is is supposed to show a return for taxpayer investment. You know that if we invest $5,000 into something and accordingly it should raise the property value accordingly. and at some point, because that's the whole thing, it's not to give away money, it is to bring the property up and the taxpayers get something in return for their investment. Mandy, I know you had 100 emails today but did you see the one I afford to do on the bill that was getting introduced? Yes. About the CRAs. Right. Talk about the removal of them. Yes, They do that every few. Gotcha. Cool. I'm just finding the historical district also, or the sort of District to make the ruling on that, or we make its life, and then they can say what goes. No, what I'm saying is it goes to a community development. I think I have my logistics messed up. So it will be the application process through community development. OK, we're just going to add a signature to there that says, in this case, that somebody like you went out and does meet the definition of bite. There's another word just a step process that has to be called for. Right. Right. I understand. That's a good idea. And we don't get into a place of roughs and all that kind of stuff or whatever. I have two other questions. One, I remember I was on the council before I pushed Jan to figure out at that time in 2003. We had about a million dollars in the CRI fund. Do we know how much we have in that fund now? I could get that for you. Well, if you would, I'm just, I'm looking big picture. I just, I mean, I read this too, and this is nothing or how to highlight it. You know, we had contributed or had been contributed to $249,000, the county, $187,000. And I know we spent money on various projects, but I'm just trying to get an idea in my head. How much money you sit here. And the second question I have, you know, in redefining what we're going to allow this money to be used for. Do you see Tim in looking at these other cities? They have actually gone out and purchased property to destroy the building? We're in NASA. In Birmingham, that got to be a big deal. I mean, they'd go in the whole neighborhoods that everybody moved out of and they literally would buy the whole block and tear everything down. So somebody could then come in and redevelop it. Mm-hmm. Is that something you say no other cities do? Is that something that would qualify for C. Alright, because in big towns this is half and of course third day of the month. And we don't have to. That's the other that's the other side of this coin. We don't have to give any money away. We don't have to do these things. No, but I guess. I mean, if it's not being used to the best, because for a long time, we could have given things, I mean, you could go hand somebody a check and they'd say no, thank you. Right, right. So that might have been what's been finally got, money go we're like oh yeah somebody's using it. It went too far this away right? So I mean if we think that we need to just not do it anymore, then we just take those $5,000 and put it into projects. Like you said, go buy a house and let's fix it up. She's that sort of thing. Because I believe it does allow them, and I live with, she explains to me every day what blinded them, and she's got to be an expert. But it raised the question, you know, if you go through snagging hood, and there's a great-looking house here, and a great-looking house here, and then all of a sudden, something boarded up that looks terrible. And I know we probably find them for not knowing the grass and all this. And I know we have a magistrate now that can do whatever. But if there's an opportunity to use some of this funds for that, I think it needs to be in our definition is what I'm saying. It's not just $5,000, $15,000. We need to expand the debt. If we want to do that, if we don't do that, don't do that. But that wouldn't be in the grant program for this. That would be us as the R.A. That would be this as the R.A. Yeah, okay. That's what I was saying. That's what I was saying. Right. I'm going to have to follow up on the quality to answer your question as October. It was projected that we have $1.8 million. I'm going to walk you through the process. I'm going to walk you through the process. I'm going to walk you through the process. I'm going to walk you through the process. I'm going to walk you through the process. I'm going to walk you through the process. I'm going ready to spend that because we're this year here. We're getting ready to do roads and see all right. You know, so I'm just trying to remember where we were. Okay. So after we take that out just to let you know let's see Those roads aren't in there. Sorry. And also, um, Andrew has some ideas and some things that he would like to talk to us about. So if it's okay with Council, if I work with Tim on this list and, and we conference with Andrew sometime this week and take his input into consideration and then bring a like a track change version back to you for the workshop in April. I just want to say that is it him described the paradox that we've got is we're looking at a place we're not going to do the back wing does we're going to do the front because it's the appearance but then Tim's right. We when you go to a house like that they're going to say oh the front looks great the back looks like hell I'm not going to buy it and that's what one of my brought up a few weeks ago is that maybe we could look at doing a way to where, if they're just like you said, instead of tearing the house down, is that we set a set amount that they can get, say, I kept $20,000 to apply to the whole house so that the house could, within the boundaries of the CRA, so that then when the house goes on the market, when Valerie walks up to sell the house, she can say, this house has already been categorized. It's available for this if you want to develop it, we're interested in you developing it. And then they have the incentive to sell to work with the house. And then we get a substantially better property that raises everybody's. So, so it's really, we have to look at what the, I guess, the limits of what CRA is going to allow us to do. So. Real quick, it's because I found the number. OK, so just roads alone that we're going to spend this year walling on to your is $685,000. So we're back now. We're made, made, right. Plus we are, you know, in the- Probably round of May, we get through it all this. Then we also have personnel expenses that go run against it and a few other things. So it's still a big chunk of money. But again, I'm just, my thought process was, you know, addressing what you're saying. It is kind of funny that we're saying you can replace the front windows, but that's it. But another way to look at this and the way I've kind of looked at it in the past was, look, the first of all, it's improved the whole house. And they're going to have to buy to buy five windows okay but what we're willing to give you is five thousand to defer part of that cost the rest of it's on you okay that that's the way I look at that's not gonna get your point I know it's like just replace the front no place the back the house ain't gonna sell yeah that's not going to work. But it's a struggle. Where are you end up with this stuff? Because they were going to do it anyway. So at least now, they've got the 5,000 that they didn't have to put on the bag. They've already got the front was free. Right. That's the way I'm always kind of mind. That's a good way to look at that. Yeah, good way to answer it. Okay. And then if anyone has any other points, you know, before the next workshop that you want us to work in, just email them to me. And so are you and Tim still going to get together this week and you and me? That's the plan. Okay. So we might even be able to look at it on. I think you should give us some time. Okay, that's good. Let's watch out for the guinevapal. Guess me. And not let everybody's got time to get their thoughts together and give me any more time. I'll do it. Are we pretty well settled now? Can I just give you a one more thing off topic? I just want to ask you guys opinion on this. We pay our property taxes in Tamarion County and they're responsible for the roads, right? Correct? For repairing the roads of Marion County. We also pay the Allen City taxes, which we're using to repair the roads. So basically in essence, Mary County is taking the money for the area of Dinellen and applying that to the rest of the county because they're not repairing our roads, we're paying double. So we're paying for the roads of Mary County. No, they repair Mary County roads. We only repair, we only repair city roads. Right. Right, but they take the money from everybody else in the county and they replace their roads because they own those roads. Right. So what I'm saying is even though we own the roads, they're taking the money. No, they don't take, they don't take arm, they don't take our down ellen money. No, I know, but they take our county money and apply it to the county to any county road that they want. Right, right. But we are a county road even though there are. So we're basically paying, Marion County, we're paying for the roads outside of Dunnellin and then we have to raise money to pay for our own roads where if it wasn't Dunnellin, Mary and County would be paying for it. So my question is, shouldn't we be asking for a rebate? No, no, no, no, no, no. We would not be paying other, if you go in and look at like Ramos Springs or Ramos the lights, they pay an MSTU for roads. Oh, they will pay an assessment. They pay an assessment. Probably a high-speed. look at like Ramos Springs or Ramos lakes. They pay an MSTU for roads. Oh, they have been assessment. They have been assessment. Exactly. Exactly. Okay, I just wanted to ask you if we remain twice. No, no, no. Okay. Anything else on the CRE? Okay, let's move on to the 4C Police Department Public Education Development. Ron? This was actually a topic that Council directed me to put on the workshop agenda at your last meeting when there was some discussion about inviting public comment on the status of the police department and the direction that you want to go there. I know we came into the last meeting. You asked me to provide you with some options, which I did reach out to the sheriff and he provided some unofficial terms that could be worked into an agreement and then your options for recruiting a police chief and I I reported to you all that and the direction that I left with at the end of that was we need to develop some sort of method to educate the public in some form before you start embodying public inputs or everybody understands where we're at. How do you want to move this forward is entirely up to you? I'm sorry, which word do you get? Mr. Mayor, what? Well, my opinion would be, we need to have a special workshop on this. It's just too important. And iron out what, if we did go with the county, what that program would look like. I've got a lot of data in the Excel sheets, the Excel sheet with a sheet with a few tabs, you know, how we got here, all that kind of stuff, frozen comments, root point, and I got the whole proposed things that I got topics for that need further discussion so we can figure out what we're going to do. Like vehicle crashes is a big one. Marine patrol is a big one and I actually had a a conversation with Lieutenant Volewinkle today. Because I sent the same spreadsheet, I sent it to Mandy, I sent it to Ron, Captain Ron, and I sent it to Lieutenant Volewinkle also and asked her to send it up to Food Jane of SheeSees fit. So, they at least know what my thinking is and what I did, you know, based on all the discussions and research. So what she came back with, because two of my topics that are just too important, that can't be left loose, one vehicle crashes. We have roughly 250 or more vehicle crashes last year. We can't have our roads clogged up. And most of the crashes are on either 484 or 41. And what she told me came back with today is that they will work the crashes. They will train their deputies and they will work the crashes. The river patrol inside city limits is another issue. and she explained that they presently patrol the river patrol inside city limits, you know, is another issue. And she explained that they presently patrol the river. And I explained to her where I live. And I said, you know, I said the sheriff does patrol the river, but mostly up north on the northern end. The majority of where the two rivers meet, and you know, the other problem spot is the two were take out and then further north they go up there also but there was no reason to duplicate effort so as long as Don Ellen was doing that portion sheriff's just fine staying up there so she said you know she did say that they will patrol the entire river, I spoke with Iran and you know another part of this is we can keep in the budget, everything we have for the marine to keep the boat active and all that. We can use reserve officers, volunteers like we have a bunch and Lieutenant Bo Wiggle said they are also okay with that same approach on top of what they already do. So as far as services go, in my mind those were the last of the two services that we need to figure something out. the other thing when I spoke with with her, she asked about coming to the meeting tonight and my guidance was that you're more than welcome, my guidance was until we understand what we think it needs to look like, I think we're just going to be wasting your time. But I did tell her, you know, I'm going to be asking for a special workshop and we would greatly appreciate if she could show up. And whoever she thought could come in to answer questions as we're going through that. And that's all the meeting we'll be about. We'll be going through all the different points with all of this. So even I kind of drug this out. I'd like to recommend that we do a special workshop as soon as possible. Speaking of Mandy today, we got to advertise and all that so the soonest that it would be able to happen would be a next Monday. And Lieutenant Bowie and Quill Center her schedule is wide open on next week. For the tenth? Mm-hmm. Okay, so I'm to assume from that that we are not going to look for another chief then. I don't know why we would at this point. So basically we just get it out tonight, basically the Dunnell Police Department is going to Mary County. No, no, no, no, no, no. Well, if we're not looking for a chief and the way you're presenting it, you're already laying out the all the parameters, then that's pretty much what it is is if if we're not saying we're going to we are looking we're going to advertise for a chief and hire them. And then we pretty much saying that we're going to Mary and County. There's Mr. Mayor. Okay. And I think, and let me just make sure I'm saying my words properly. I understand what you're saying. As we all know, Tim does excellent research for many many things. He dabs into it better than anybody I've seen, right? He's an expert at this in my opinion. But that's it. It's his research right? His opinion. Now do I think personally I don't like 50 militant here today, because I might wear a bath or something. So I think maybe, that was maybe where I would have said he might have gone over a little stuff. My opinion is that I'm not precise. No, no, no, no. Now to put that in context a little bit, okay? You can't believe how much time she's spending on down Ellen. Okay, I mean, it has taken over her life. And that's probably the thing. Right, so I just didn't, you know, to me to bring her in. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, but then you're fine. But so I understand, and again, sometimes I have a thing when Tim says, this is how we're doing it, and this is what we're doing, but what Tim's really saying is this is how Tim wants to do it and how Tim, so it's how he's presenting it to us, so but we need to make sure that the citizens of Dennellan are understanding that one council member's very good research and that's his opinion. We might not be on the same page. Correct. Well, but it's a good opinion. I mean, it's yours opinion and it's fine. What I think is one step that we could currently have, and Ron is here tonight, and Ron, were you prepared to make a statement at department reports on the status and the current condition of our operation? Well, so we're going to hear that. It probably will be a good idea to hear that now, Ron. If you could give us with Council's approval, your report on the current status, this is what's important to our citizens. Not only the future of what we're going to do with the police department, but the current status and the capabilities and what changes have taken place in the last month. And I think if you'll update us on that, Ron, it'll clear a lot of the air. Over the last month, obviously working under Lieutenant Bill Winkle as the interim chief has been very informative and there's been a very strong and good healthy partnership with that. Her bringing her experience into the department. With that, it's led to some changes in some of our processes and how we're approaching things. Some deficiencies have been identified and are being addressed as we speak to go ahead and improve that. Training has been provided by the Marion County Sheriff's Department. And I would imagine in the future, additional training will continue to be provided by the Sheriff's Department. But I think we're working in a right in strong direction, especially with the resources that they have available to assist us. So when you're opinion currently, you see progress. I see progress. Operations are being well performed. Yes. She is assuring that things are moving forward and that the officers are doing their jobs. I'll open it up for Council's questions, comments. Just, and nothing against anybody who's in that position right now that she's in. Would those, and I know, you know, if we go out and we hire a new chief, do you think those trainings and those types of deficiencies could have been seen by a new chief of police and given to? I mean, and I know I'm trying to ask you to look into a crystal ball. Do you think it's just because she's with Mary and Kenny Shariffs? Or is it because it's a fresh side of eyes who has a little bit better more experience than maybe what we've had in the past. I think it's a fresh set of eyes and somebody with training and experience of her caliber and the resources of the Sharif's department. I've been tremendous for the Denon police. Would we be able to do those trainings without the Sharif? I guess it's how I tried to ask. Yes, but you have to understand there's going to be limited resources for that. Yeah, of course. You know, in any larger agency, I mean we can put any county sheriff's department on that. There would have larger resources available to them. The Denomenon Police Department at best, if we brought in a new police chief, which is one option, is always going to be a limited service police department. We're never going to have a SWAT team. We're never going to have homicide investigators. And I'm kind of going to be kind of explicit in that. But those are the things that we have to work for. At the very least, there would always, always have to be a strong partnership with the Marion County Sheriff's Department, with Citrus County Sheriff's Department, with Levy County Sheriff's Department. To know, police department, you could never go it alone. Yes, you know, are there things that they're exceptionally good at? Absolutely. But not to that magnitude because a larger department is obviously going to have a much stronger more robust budget and resources because they have to maintain that because they're taking care of 1680 square miles on the rest of the county. So for the 7.3 square miles that they would have here in the city, it makes it a little bit easier. Now obviously there's some changes and some comparisons that you can do back and forth. So, you know, it's kind of hard to answer your question to make sure that we're comparing apples to apples. And I know them, but I was just seeing if it's, yeah. And I know what I'm trying to say in my mind, but it's not coming out. Gotcha. When you're driving around Bott's Springs, my outlaw. No, I understand. Trust me I get them to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. for a police chief. Because we're already two weeks, two and a half weeks, into the interlocal agreement that gives us about two and a half more months, and then are we gonna keep on doing that? Anyway, that's it, I'll make a motion. Or a recommendation to the next one next meeting, though, that we start advertising for a police chief. Why would we advertise for a police chief? I mean, the first step should be able to decide, as a council, we need to decide what's our police department going to look like. Right. Yeah. Then once that is done, then how do we want to resource that? So... But that's again, we're going back to where we're laying all the groundwork for Marion County coming in and taking over which is precluding looking for a police chief. If we're looking for a police chief, we're looking... We can do the same thing. We can say, okay, this is what? This is what we want our department to look like and Instead of Mary County doing having our Having our police having our police Right, but Rex whether you like it or not We are going to take a look a serious look at going with the Mary County Some you know some plan there. We're gonna take a at it. We're going to take a look at how we got here. And the reason we got to take a look at how we got here is and what the issues that are driving us to take a look at the Marion County is so that we don't repeat them. I understand. And once we go through all of that, if somebody has ideas of how to maintain the existing police force and not be in the same thing that we have been in for the past 17 years, then that's the discussion that we're going to have. And there's a whole lot more things than. I really do fully understand how I'm saying it. I like is it it looks like it's already a done deal and if we were in the process of looking for a police chief when it came time to decide we could sit down and say this is what we want our department to look at. We can look at that at Marion County and we go to the person who we're doing for the chief and then we can say okay are you we're you gonna be able to provide this for as a chief or Marion County are you gonna be able to do it that's all I'm saying. And I think that's what Monday the 10th will take care of. You'll take care of. So come on Monday the 10th with your ideas. Monday the 10th. As the special workshop that we're talking about, that's where we're trying to lay out of. Oh, yes. Because that's what I've got like a little note pad that I'm not a next-south girl. Maybe I'll get to the teach me one day. But that's where I have thought about a job description. I've talked to Captain Bray about things that I'd like to include in a job description for a police chief for that we don't leave them out high and dry and blind like I kind of think we have. Okay. Fundamentally, I've spoke to all of you and probably shared my visions and I will share them once again and I think fundamentally what I would suggest to Council or encourage Council to do is first look at just exactly what you were saying Valerie is define the type of police department. What is it? If we put 1.4 million, 1.2 million, 1.10 million, whatever we put into that, what is the output that the citizens of Dennellan deserve? What is that? Then I'm very strongly in agreement that we have to objectively take the emotion out and look, whatever that dollar figure is, what is the best way to approach that? If the council decides to go look for a police chief, it would only be fair. If you would have to know what you want, that way you would have to look for that person to be able to produce that for you. And you would have to look for skills, attributes, and experience, and training to be able to get that for you. That's the best way. We would have to look at their history. That's the best predictor that we know. Okay? Or are there other options out there to produce that? And as members, fiduciary members for the city, we have to take a look, what's the best way to do that? Is that hunting down a chief? Is that partnering with somebody? I don't know what that is. I can't answer that. It brings up more questions than it does answers right now and you guys are faced with a tremendous challenge is to try and come up with those answers and try and create issues so that your objective on both sides and it's not going to balance out. It's not. There are some things that are not quantifiable and that's where I'm at. However, as the current captain at the city of Denellin, I would say, please, I would implore with this council, do your due diligence to it timely. Okay. One of the worst things that can happen is that we keep going back to this and doing it over and over again. Because if we do this every couple of years, what's going to happen five years from now if you still maintain a police department, how hard does that make recruiting? Okay, and you can talk to any law enforcement agency in the state of Florida and ask them the challenges in which they are faced with for recruiting. Typically that doesn't require us what? More dollars and more money. Because we're a small fish and a big pond trying to compete for those officers. And or that chief, whoever that might be. Now I don't know what the solution is, but then you have the fairness for the officers that are currently there. And we can't keep kicking the can down the road. But we don't want to do a knee jerk reaction either. We just have to, what are the facts? What are the facts? That's it. Wally, did you have a comment? Yeah, I have a couple of things. We're going to come on in our current staff at around five. No, we're currently at six, patrol. Yes, sir. And we have equipment for having. We have the equipment to cover all six of those with two Yeah, more quick. Correct. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Ask for us like it. Um, and we're covered everything we need to cover up. That is correct. You have to do everything. Yes, all shifts are covered as a normal operation. We've not had to enact anything. I'm sure we all. You know, I've been thinking about this, but your question is correct. I have to lay up on what? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I had made it on my mind yet what to do, but I think we all need to set down ourselves and say, what are the pros and cons of having our own police department? What are going to be the pros and cons if we go to the Marin County Sheriff? And independently, lay those out. It goes to me, there are definitely benefits of having our own police in my mind. And there's some benefits of having to go with the Marin and kind of share a couple of things that Tim just said about accidents and the river. Again, those are two very important things that we definitely have to have good answers for. Because I don't want our citizens or me sitting on our side of a road for two hours waiting for the Florida highway patrol nothing against them, they're just too busy. And we're a long way from my 75, which is where most of them are. So learning that Mary County Sheriff will be able to do that, that's wonderful. But I think in what I plan to do before we have this public public meeting is I think we all on this council need to have our mindset on what do we say of the advantage of disadvantages keeping this police department and what would be the advantages and disadvantages of going to Mary County Sheriff and it's not just money. I mean I hate to say it that way. It's got to be what do we think is right for this town. And again, when you sit back and I understand what you're saying, when you say you're trying to recruit additional officers, where they're going to feel like this town just keeps going through a crisis every two or three years. You know, is that a place I want to go work? Yeah. And that's got to be hard. You know, and fixing the pension might do one thing, but it's not to answer. Raising salaries to me is not to answer. If there's no quality of life in your job, they're not coming here. They're just not. So again, I think in what I plan to do is just come up with a whole list and I think we all share those lists with each other and say, this is what we all think. Now, my personal opinion is we shouldn't have a meeting with the public on the 10th to discuss this with them because we don't know what we want to do. Okay? Unless we just all want to come to make it and all of us share what we think and have the public listen to the whole thing. And that's just my thought. And just, I really should eat more for ever come to the meetings. You do have people who are wanting to come to the city and work, right? Yes, we've received some applications just now. I mean, I know too that I've talked to that would love to help re-invision our city. That's the best word and they have a lot of great experience. Yes, they do. It would be a nice bonus for us. But I mean, you're right, I wish we could somehow all sit down at the river and discuss all this. But the sunshine won? Yeah, maybe with down brawlers. So I think maybe coming back on the 10th, sorry, girls, would be a good way just to not, and to make sure that the citizens know that we're not here, that that means not for us to say, OK, this is what we're going to vote on on the 12th or even in April but these are what We're thinking out loud. What are you thinking out loud and then and then in April really be able to give everybody a good hard decision. I agree with you. No, not that I term. I don't agree with that timeline because it's too important. I think after Monday's meeting we need to get our act together Monday because this has been going on for a long, long time. This is not new and this has been going on provide some time. The original purpose of 4C was to give Mandy guidance on to educate the public. And I do, my opinion, is the best way to educate the public is to put out there that this special meeting will happen on Monday. They're welcome to attend in person if they have questions that they need answered. With a meeting like that, I think we can do a little bit of go back and forth. We'll see how it goes. And those that are not able to attend can view it on the On the website either when it's live or afterwards I think that's the best way that they're going to be educated when they see how we come to conclusions how we they see the back and forth that happens up here and I don't know a better way to educate them at you know, then let them know the meetings there, let them see the process, the issues, the final, whatever the results are, and then the same thing for whatever following meeting there is. So with the GrantedCons Program, we already have a way to educate people. I'm not sure why we would want to spend time and resources to summarize everything, put it on Facebook and Don Ellen or whatever when we already have the vehicle for those that are that are interested to be educated. It's Not good. The biggest thing that I run into that we, this first hurdle that we come over is that the reassurance to our citizens and our businesses that our police department is totally functioning. It is serving the citizens and the businesses needs in this community. There has been no fluctuation whatsoever as far as that determination. So that's basically what my friends have requested upon me. And the businesses have requested upon me is to may or tell me that we have the security that we need right now. And I cannot assure you that is appropriate at this time. Well, that's exactly what I have reassured him. And that is the information I received from you and also from other sources that we are in good condition. And the citizens, that's the only thing they're concerned about right now. I don't think what's painted on the side of the car is important. I think it's the quality and the reassurance to our community of our police department. It's what's going to count. I agree. And if we go ahead with the workshop, Monday, this is going to be an opportunity for the citizens to voice their opinions of what they think and their business is also. Let us always remember that less than 10% of the of the businesses in this community are owned by residents of the city. So we we often overlook the fact that that is a major contribution is the security of our businesses. Yes. So we want to encourage their involvement in this if they have questions about when they're being checked on at night or they're parking lot security and things of that nature, they want to bring that up. This is an open opportunity for them also along with our citizens. So I think the idea of the workshop is a good idea and I think it's a reassurance to our community that the public is being involved in our decision and this would as Tim mentioned and I think it's appropriate that this be a dedicated meeting to that purpose so that they're not coming to a council meeting or a workshop that generally goes for an hour and here we've gone for two hours, and we've been in this discussion probably 45 minutes. Yes, sir. And so with the problem is the citizens, and look at it, they hear from the agenda, they see this, they say, gosh, all these other things are, you know, they're all in here. You know, I don't have that much time, but if it's just dedicated to this one subject, I wanna be there. And I think it's appropriate. I think it's a good idea for us to listen to our citizens and also for our citizens to question us. So then the format of this workshop should be a little bit different. I think you should allow citizens to submit a written comment and to him he crossed over on several ways that they could contribute, but also a written That would be a part of the record also so that someone couldn't be at the meeting and they want to sit down and write us a personal letter They want to send us an email that that would also Figure into our decisions give those people every opportunity we can To participate I couldn't agree with you more that I think we need to give them a platform to bring the dialogue to discuss this. It's a very complex situation and you guys have a tough decision to make. So I agree and support that mayor. I you know absolutely they should be heard. All right well Mandy is it do you think we can get what we need to get done and with a meeting next Monday as far as this work special workshop is as possible? I hope so. I don't think there's a better time than now because it's been pointed out that we've gone a period of time and we've got to make a decision and it's now time we've had enough opportunity to let the dust settle a little bit and reassure the citizens and the ones that I've talked to that things are rolling along fine. We're not having a disaster, we're okay. And we can reassure them once again. But they need to be part of the next decision. We've secured the situation. Now it's time to move to the next step and formulate where we want to be in 5, 10, and 15 years as we talk about a lot. And I think this workshop is a beginning and if it's productive, and we want to turn around and have another one before we have the final decision, I'm all for that too. The more public we can get with our presentations and exposure to the public the better off we're going to be. Absolutely. So that's that's where I feel about it. Is that is that sound in line? Absolutely. I think so Rick. I think so. Oh, regular time, 5.30. Mm-hmm. Sorry, 5. I don't care. I mean, I don't have a preference. We usually meet at 5.30 so if we start we probably should stick to what we done most of the time. Yeah they expect us to be at a certain time because we generally are at 5.30. Is that agreeable? Yep. Rob, before you leave, is there anything else you want to bring attention to? We need tonight. No. I think everything is going exceptionally well. The transition is being good. Everything from the captain to the major to the lieutenant. There they've met with all the officers. We've had two different staff meetings. They're bringing in some additional resources to help with a few things. We're gonna be meeting again tomorrow night and Wednesday night as well with all the officers and with the lieutenant. And I just can't, everything is going good. The officers are, you know, out there performing and functioning and doing their job. And they're glad to do it. But are they concerned? Sure. They're just like anybody else. But they show up every day, you know, on time, and they go out and they serve the citizens and they do it Gladly and professionally. I mean, that's what I'm very proud of Is anyone have anybody council every the other thing else for on? Yes, thank you wrong. Thank you mayor Before we get off this topic, I just emailed Mandy my spreadsheet and I asked her I I don't know what the rules are. Is that something that you can send to everybody Mandy so they have a chance? It's a public record at this point. So I don't know why I couldn't hang on a second. Andrew's text in me. Can I turn it in and see? Like, wherever I'm not freezing? is's asking will we need him up for that workshop on Monday? I don't think so. I think it's just. Okay. What do we need? I don't think so. We're discussing whether you need to address it. Oh, I don't think so. For the special workshop, I don't necessarily think you do. I don't think so. What do you think, Wally? No, I think the Ron is here and the Lieutenant's here or the Representative of the American and the Sheriff. That's where the questions are going to come. And I don't think there's going to be a lot of legal questions. It's getting your and how you're gonna handlet and how comfortable everybody's gonna be whatever answer they get? Okay. No Andrew hand on from under the end. No. Okay. Hopefully he'll be feeling better and he'll be on the 12th. Okay. Anything else on this police department issue? Anything else. I would only ask that people do look at this document. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It'll save a lot of time. Thank you. All right. Item 4D. The floor. Well, 4D. This is the floor of the league of cities. Legislative days in Tallahassee, it will commence beginning on the 24th, 25th and 26th of this month. I'd like the council to appreciate to allow me to attend this. This is very important for our city. This will be the first one I've attended in several years. And I would be up there. I would go up on Sunday and come back on Thursday. Sounds good to me. Can we go out to send? It's consent. Consent. Do we go to all of a sudden? Can we go to all of a sudden? Can we go to all of a sudden? Can we go to all of a sudden? Can we go to all of a sudden? Can we go to all of a sudden? Can we go to all of a sudden? Can we go to all of a sudden? Can we go to all of a sudden? Can we go to all of a sudden? And there is money in the budget to cover the expense for the travel. As always in the past, I watch every dime I spend when I'm out of town representing our city and I assure you that's going to continue. You can have a share with Temple if you want one. I don't thank you. Thank you. I look for- I watch every dime I spend when I'm out of town representing our city and I'll share you that's going to continue You can have a sure look temple if you want one. I don't thank you. Thank you I I look forward to being there. It's been a great deal of time since I've Work you know at the legislative level at the Capitol I've worked on it on our local with our local politicians our local representatives and I look forward to spending time until I I'm not asking. Taking a look at the situation and what the future may be for us here. It does. our local representatives and I look forward to spending time until I have seen. Taking a look at the situation and what the future may be for us here. And for our fabulous job up there every time you've gone so it's it's an honor having you there. Thank you Valerie. I treasure my time up there because it has been so fruitful for our community. I've been so grateful to our legislators in the past who have devoted millions of dollars to our community. And I'm very grateful. And some of the same ones are there. They've changed hats. Stan McLean is now our state senator. He was a former representative in the House. He termed limited out, but he represented East Marion County at that point in time, but he has always stood with, and Alan always stood with us in our presentations. JJ Gro is our new house member, we've talked about that before. He has the Southwest corner of Marion County and all of Citrus County, he's been very cooperative so far and I've really appreciated why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think for N. N. Rob. They were very instrumental in the past. So anyway, I looked forward to it and I looked forward to reporting back to the council. Well, I was able to find out what we may look forward to in our future. Thank you for doing that. Thank you. I appreciate it. Now we go on to regular agenda items. Number five, update ordinance ORD-20 One nine-dash oh one storm water system and listen discharge and connection is this is this Chad's territory I guess it's gonna park my MS4 I guess part of our old ordinance it says there's a spectrum our inspection stuff, okay, I covered construction areas. And according to the P, we have to update our ordinances by sprinkling construction zones, a construction period to be able to, I guess the ordinance to be able to apply with, they want. It looks like in 2020 we had to put that in here. So you're going to work with Andrew on this issue? We can manage everything on that and he's looked into that. He sent some changes that I forwarded to DEP. I'm just waiting to hear back and make sure that those changes are acceptable to them before we bring the ordinance back to council but we are working on it. Okay. Windsor, Windsor time up. We have to do it by never mind. I just won't even ask. If no objection can we move on then is everybody understanding what they're working on this issue. How about item number six, staff agenda items, vacation rental registration fees. Sorry. Mandy. Yes sir, I hope everyone had an opportunity to review the agenda summary that I prepared. Thank you. And so based on some numbers that we used, some staff estimates and actual software calls for the first two years of the program came up with a proposed annual fee of $380 for each registration. that would be the initial registration and for subsequent years as well. And we would revisit this each year to look at what our actuals are versus what revenue we've collected and adjust that number accordingly. And I can show you if anybody's interested the spreadsheet spreadsheet that I've derived all this from. I did show it to Valerie. If she can't worry to me. Questions for? I have the omniscient issue. Any questions? No. No. Well. The only question I have made the on this letter, looks like we're going to send out to all the property owners. Yes, and I did get some feedback from you all that I have not had a chance to go and look at in detail. My only suggestion is one thing. Okay. one, don't put your name on it. Cause you'll get all caught. But I put your name on it. I'm a judge. But what I'm saying, I mean, right here at the very end, it says, please call city of Dunnell and it's the direct number. Okay. I do think though, instead of putting you, we do need to put some. Okay. I do think though instead of putting you we do need to put some so all the calls go to the same person. If I want to try and say that would be community development, which is what I'm going to get to. we do, let's have one person try to answer these questions so that we don't get a lot of different answers coming from different people. But you've got too much on your plate to do this. Right. I'm all I've got right now. I know, but I'm just saying, I don't see how you're going to do this if we send this letter out. You're going to be over with. But while I came, we go into what she's gonna do in 6B and combine it in this conversation. Because I think she's, to what she's going to do in 6B and combine it in this conversation. Because I think she's, I think she's just, I was just saying. I was just saying, no, not Mandy. Yeah, well I agree. But I think she wants to tie 6B into this conversation. Oh, I see. Can you do that Mandy? Ty 6B in there. That's fine. I think before we move on on from this is Kelly and I have been working for months to update the fee resolution for the building department for permits and everything else. And this would be a part of that fee resolution. So I would like to bring that to you at the meeting next week for consideration. I do, and I'm going to have to have Andrew look at some of it to make sure that we're not doing anything that's, you know, sexually not allowed by charging something over under. So I do want him to just take one look at it and make sure that if it gets to where it's too much, I may just bring one resolution to you that just addresses vacation rails. And just get that on the books. Our software provider has committed to having me live by April 1st. They have fast-tracked the implementation process. I have another meeting scheduled with them tomorrow from 12 to 1.30 I am keeping Michelle in the loop Okay, so I have flat tire and I don't come back and somebody else knows what's going on And Shawna has gotten involved too from the financial perspective with the online payments she's had to work with them to set up the banking and all that. So there's more than one person involved that has some even though maybe limited understanding of what's going on. But if we can fill that position in community development with someone who can manage this? Sure. That would be great. Before we get off this topic, the fee that we're charging, Mandy, is it still basically we would see the return on our investment within three years is up. That is what we're projecting. Yes. Gotcha. The first fees were a little bit higher and then we got guidance from Andrew that was worried about the first year. The STRs that are identified now have to pay the whole freight. So I divided it out over three years for a return, which is for businesses, that's always typical. So we estimated the cost for the first year and what I used was based on 42 rentals that I have confirmed are registered with DBPR for sure. So I've got that here so if you take the, say for each rental it's going to, for that first year it may take an hour of Chads time and it may take an hour of my time. So I've calculated estimated staff cost. and then software in the first year is a little bit more expensive because of the implementation process. So based on 42 rentals that came out with 387.58 and just to cover the additional staff costs that may be involved, an additional 40 hours each with implementation, learning curve, working out inspections, fire inspections. So there's just so many unknowns. So I allowed another 40 hours for me and another 40 hours for code enforcement, which that averaged out to, based on 42 Reynolds, 485. And then in the second year, I'm estimating we may have 50. We have more, I don't know, but I'm just using a number as an estimate and calculating the staff cost. Software in year two is 8500. That averaged out to 275 a year based on 50 rentals. So we averaged the two numbers to come up with the 380. And that is what Andrew was comfortable with. And that is an effort to recoup any of our costs for the software or for staff time over a three year period. We don't have to refund anybody if you only worked 15 hours. No, it's an estimate. And I mean, we're I think, being very conservative here, it's going to involve a lot of staff time to implement this in the first year. But we're not asking those people who are registering in the first year to pay $485, which is our projected cost. We're asking them to pay $380. So I'm very comfortable with it. Andrew is comfortable with it. So that's what we're recommending. And I'll get an ordnette. I mean, a resolution prepared for next week. So we can get that established. Finish up our software implementation this month. month and pray we go off April 1st. And I'll just say call City Hall. Instead of me. You just live here. Well, and they are also, I have to say, they're going to handle a lot of the calls. People are going to be directed to them as well, especially the 24-7 hotline to handle complaints. They will also help new registrants with application. If they call up local gov, they'll walk them through the process to complete everything online. you, you know, a lot of that is they're going to be handling anyway. And this folds into your community development vacancy. Yes. And what I'm asking for there is, you know, some of you were here and some of you are aware of how that sort of developed into into a different position because we were working with what we had and Kelly's great But Kelly didn't want the community development manager position So we molded that into something that Kelly was Happy with that we could You know justify a certain salary range for, but I really needed department head in that position. Because I don't have time to manage that department at the level. It needs to be managed and liaison with the planners on development applications and site plans and plant review and I need someone in there with the qualifications to properly manage the department and I'd like to reinstitute that position and advertise worth a starting salary of 65,000. That's your recommendation. Yes it is. All right. Council members, how do you feel about manage recommendations and your thoughts on that position? Yesterday. Is that salary committed? Is that in line with it? What other people are making? It's probably a little less. We had a difficult time recruiting but we also have the Well, well, you have the discretion. If I come to you and say, hey, I have a really great candidate, but I can't get them for less than 72, 73 for you to say, yep, that's fine. Go ahead and move that applicant forward. So I mean, if you get somebody in here that's really, really qualified, you're probably going to have to pay them a little bit more And we've got the comp plan. I will try to get that so that's so important for us to get this filled Have to be happy. No, I'm so good. Well, I want you everybody We go ahead for a 65 I mean It's not gonna do us any good to try to lowball it and I'm not getting anybody and then come back and do it Whereas if we try to get a better candidate right off the top The time to met if we're probably going to end up there 55 is not sound to me like it's Really an exhortive and salary today, so no, I would ask that you you to allow me to go ahead even, even though that salary range is consistent with the other department head salary ranges. That doesn't mean you have to start them at 55 or advertise at 55. I want somebody that's going to be worth 65 or more. Okay. So, I would advertise and have a middle of it. I just don't want to be in the same position where we were with the police officers when they left here Where nobody was applying because we were the second lowest paid right but her number I think is Right, okay, I just want to make sure that I'm not That's what I need that'll be that'll be the start You know, you know, and that's that's the bottom, you know, I mean if I get somebody in here that is really, really, you know, qualified has lots of planning and zoning experience, has caught plan experience. Then I say we negotiate a salary with them at that point and go higher if we need to. I think you have the council agreement and what you recommend and Mandy is that right? Yes. Mandy, you've got the green light. Thank you. What you need to do. Thanks. All right. Anything else on that? Nope. We're working down here. How about Department Reports? We, Ron, did you have anything else you want to add? No, sir. All right. That's the police department. That's got that one. Shana. You don't have anything? Just going through the software conversion, looking for issues learning as much as we can. Okay. Chad? I have nothing. Randy? Sean, you can elaborate further if you want, but we went live this week with BSA, we're actually running everything on the new system now. This will be our first time this week running our first payroll in BSA. I don't really know if y'all started any warrants or anything like that on the AP side, but we're paid three March for Munis. So at the end of March, we won't have Munis any longer. So unless there's anything else you have to add. Yeah, we actually do have some invoices input. We're working on a lot of controls, making sure things are being overseen very closely. The goal is to actually cut some physical checks out of BSNate tomorrow. We'll take them. And 38 counts. Man, did you have anything else? I have nothing else to say. All right. Council comments. Look forward to seeing you all next Monday. All right. $50.00, I'll be safe. Yeah. Oh, does Andrew have anything he'd like to address? And I do just in passing just want to point out that the legislative session has started. There are a number of bills that could certainly affect the city. Obviously, well, we'll affect the city if they're passed. And I could discuss those more length as we kind of see what develops and what might stick versus what might not as well as what I'm there at the next meeting. But since there is a lot of discussion on the CRA, I do want to point out that there is a CRA bill that would especially really stop serious in their tracks. So we'll be providing you information on that as it becomes available. In addition, there is a bill that is set to increase the sovereign unity thresholds. We have one of those that we see almost every year. We'll see if that one gets any traction. And I also want to point out that there are a number of bills that essentially preempt local land use decisions. So in a variety of sort of instances. So as a time goes on, like I said, and there's a little bit more information, I will be providing that to you and discussing that with you at the upcoming meetings. That's all I have. Andrew, that would be very timely with my trip to Tallahassee on going up on the 23rd for that week. Did you hear that, man? OK, man. Yes, sir. And I did send out an email to all of you today that was published by the Florida League of Cities on all of these legislative actions that are in process right now. Do you want to review those? Public comment. Does anyone in the public wish to make a statement? David Forder, welcome David. All right. Day quarter one, one eight three five east blue code drug. So, I appreciate your patience on that. I want to talk about the police department for just a moment, because the body language was like really obvious. So, the that I see, a formal process, would be, first of all, form a clear vision of what it would be like if you had the Sheriff's Department take over or police department, OK? And to do that, to do that, my recommendation is to develop a PowerPoint. And it would be for all different subjects. And Mandy could create it, Tim could create it. Or really, if you could do it under the sunshine lock, because this is just a workshop for conceptual ideas of a potential idea, I don't think that needs sunshine. And can all feed back. But it would be subjects like how many police officers are there? Six, eight, whatever. And they would report just to Dunnell. They work here full time. How do they do business checks? Are they going to do business checks? How often kind of a thing? What cars do they have? Tim is helping to develop that idea for if you vote to go with the median county shares, what would that look like? So it's not a good time, it's not the right time to get all emotional on, are we going with the county or not? This is the picture of if we did what would it look like? And then when you're all done developing, this is the best idea, if we go with the county what it would look like, that's when you do the pros and cons of going with the county versus staying with the police chief and the police department now but you first of all have to as a unison develop what's the best look for what that county taking over our police department looks like. Tim's done the line cheer of it, but I'm sure you all have different ideas than you'd rather have. Some of the conflicts were, if you had a wreck, who's going to take care of it and stuff. So if you made a PowerPoint slides of where the police department officer's going to meet that, Where's the police chief going to sit at kind of a thing. What are you going to do with the police department? What are you going to do with the police cars and all that equipment kind of a thing? And exactly how you think it works, the river patrol, who's going to patrol Blue Run Park? Are the police officers going to come and do the Christmas parade kind of a thing? So you could have slides for different subjects. And if you produce that, and you guys can feed back on it, then when you have the workshop, you can kind of go through and say, this is what we think it would look like if we went with the county. And during that workshop meeting, Rex, you could say, no, I really want 10 officers kind of a thing if we go that way. And it doesn't mean you're voting for that, but this is what you think we need. Does that make any sense to anyone? And so as a unison, the five of you are developing the picture of what you would like it to look like if you did go with the county. And then the people in the city can say, this is what I really like about it, I don't like or I really you know I want I want more officers I want more people in the river or whatever but it has to be kind of clear and it's not a spreadsheet for that it needs to be kind of easy to look at okay and that's not an insult I love spreadsheets you. You know what I'm saying? But it needs to be visual. So each of y'all can kind of put your input into. This is what I would like if we go that way. And you kind of reach an agreement. So when you're all done at that workshop, you go, if we went with the county, this is what we would like at the big. And the lieutenant can be here and she go oh no we can't we can't do that kind of a thing or we could if we have break ends with the businesses here's what we can offer you know we can do business checks but we also got detectives and a homicide officers and I'm going to holocopter to come just like that. So it gives you a vision of if you went that way, this is what it would look like. And then when you're all done, y'all kind of agreed, this is the potential solution, and then you can do the pros and cons of, if you go this way or this way and what's better. If you don't do that, it makes it difficult because some people are still trying to decide if I want to go with the police chief or in Keyboard Apartment or go with the county. And you hadn't gotten there yet. You got to put together the picture of what you're proposing and what it looks like how much it costs and that kind of stuff Thanks for your patience Yes Part Fisher 118 97 North Ohio Street, Denne, Laplata It's obvious none of you need any painkillers because you come in here at least twice a month and endure all this. Thank you for going before me. My simple question was going to be, is the presentation you discuss with the captain intended to be solo? or did you intend to have the Sheriff's Department also provide the choice or pro-ocon and if there wasn't a doubt in your mind in my view I think there shouldn't be a doubt in your mind. House keeping a little bit the presentation on on the vacation matter refers to vacation rental. I don't know whether that's a vacation rental property or vacation rental period. And you may want to clarify that so you don't have to argue the issue of context. I'll show you where that is. I shouldn't address myself to anybody, but if anybody wants to talk about it, I'll point it out to you. The three minutes applied to your Collins or just the people appear here. We don't have Collins anymore to it. No. I'm just teasing. Again, not addressing anyone. Thank you very much, Melissa. All right. Thank you for the other day. I enjoyed my talk. Thank you very much. Any other public comments? I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. See you later. All right. There's a motion on the floor in a second discussion. All those in favor say aye. Feel better, Andrew. I'm still on the phone. on the floor in a second discussion. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Feel better Andrew. He's still on phone. Well, aye. Aye. Feel better, Andrew. Well, I said seven. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Andrew. Have a good night. Thank you, Andrew. You're doing great. You still so safe.