All right. Good afternoon. We will call to order the work session meeting of the Heath City Council August 15th, 2024 at 11 11. We're now in session agenda item number two is to discuss annual budget for fiscal year 2024 and 2025. Mr. Lashar. Okay, we're gonna, next couple hours, we're gonna go ahead and show you Jay's, what I call the Firmed Up Budget based on the elements we discussed, and then we'd really like to spend a lot of time talking about the tax rate, but Jay and I took notes on what she had asked us to do, and so we wanna go through that. At the risk of getting hit ourselves, we are going to be doing a field trip as well. That's actually a separately posted meeting. I have to go to Hila Wilgonson's office for a bid opening on the park. So Brian Cree, he will be ushering or be the master's ceremonies for that field trip to Congress Texas. We'll get some water while so. So that's our itinerary today. And I do wanna thank you for taking time out of your day to pay attention, this is very important matter. So Jay, go ahead and take it away. Good evening, Mayor and Council. So I'll start off with the introduction of today's budget workshop meeting. Today the objective here is to just finalize the budgetary direction for fiscal year FY 2025. The purpose is to review the outcomes of the previous budget workshop and incorporate any necessary adjustments to ensure our budgetary decisions along with the city's financial goals and priorities and to finalize the proposed budget, tax rate, and fund the allocation so we present it for public hearings and council approval. It's a very of the previous workshops and decisions. We'll take a look at the General Fund property tax rate review. Today, we'll ask you all to make a motion to approve the proposed tax rate, whichever tax rate you all decide amongst you all. And we'll take a dive into the 10 year capital plan for the utility infrastructure projects discussed in the previous meeting just trying to expedite some of the projects that they were identified in our short-term long-term initiative to address water resources and infrastructure. And we'll go over the next steps and time to finalize the budget for approval. And at the end, we'll ask if you have any questions or any recommendations in relation to the FY25 budget. Just a review of the previous budget workshop, I think our main discussion points were the general plan consideration of the various tax rate options. I reviewed the no revenue rate, the equivalent tax rate, the minimum is in the voter approval rate. From our previous budget workshop, the initial direction was to go with the flat rate. And what I do want, well, the flat rate versus the voter approval rate, what I do wanna state is, when we discuss on the flat rate over the voter approval rate, that is strictly them and a rate what we're talking about. We cannot unfortunately do what we did last year and applying the equipment tax reform to the debt rate because the the rate that was applied and whenever they were calculated our debt rate is to of our debt service that's due in FY25, and it's projected to burn down our fund balance. So, and that's on that. On the utility side, we discussed water, our water projects, the short and long time initiatives and briefly discussed on how that would impact the water rates. And we reviewed the 10 years capital plan which outlined the capital projects and funding. The on-resolved items that we are we're just in this meeting is whether to adopt the proposed flat rate or the voter approval rate City Council you all will vote on that proposed tax rate of making a motion and what I what I did provide to you all is the preliminary utility capital plan and the new one that with the water projects, the Shardin long-term initiative plan that we talked discuss and just moving that forward. And of course, that's gonna require more finance and just working with Hilltop securities to issue new debt to find those projects. And then the next step is just preparing for public hearings and council votes. Okay. The general fund property tax rate review. He just goes this in the last meeting. The no new revenue tax rate is the tax rate calculated to generate the same amount of revenue from properties that were taxed in the previous year. The purpose of the N&R is to provide a benchmark for understanding whether the new rate will increase or decrease the tax burden on property owners, independent of changes in property values. The equivalent tax rate is a tax rate calculation used to increase taxes based solely on new improvements of growth. And then the de minimis is a tax rate calculation that generates the same amount of maintenance and operations revenue for property taxes and the previous plus and additional $500,000 in tax rates. And then the flat rate is just practically using the same and an over rate that we used in the previous year. And the total approval rate is the highest tax rate that we can, that's allowed without requiring an election. Here's just a breakdown of the equivalent tax rate formula. The MNOSI, which is the general equivalent side, is the tax rate is calculated at 0.17656. The INS is going to be consistent through each one of these. So it's steady at the 0.098936. And on the right hand side, it shows how much revenue will be generated from each respective rate. And then the combined tax rate is at the bottom. They're bold at the .275 496 tax rate. And then this is the demand. This is the rate that would bring an additional 500,000 in tax livenity and comparison to this fiscal year. This is the flat rate. would actually decrease. The tax bill for our home that 750,000 by roughly 2%, which would be roughly a $48 savings. The de minimis would increase it roughly $96. The voter per rate, I did in 2021, and the equivalent rate would reduce it by $15,000 will be generated by each rate. And at the very bottom, and this wasn't included in the last presentation, but it actually shows the exact amount of the fund balance that would be left at the, in relation to the budget. So the flat rate, you will have roughly 3.9 million in phone balance, the no new revenue with everything being the same on expenditures and revenues outside of property taxes, it would be 3.6, the demand of this would be 4.1, and the voter approval rate would be 4.6, the demand of this would be 4.1 and the vote of approval rate would be 4.2 and the equivalent rate would be 3.6. This is a breakdown of all of your the rates. You have the flat rate, which breaks down your immuno rate and your honest rate. The total combined rate there is just an addition of both of those rates and with the corresponding bond balances for each one of those rates in the general fund. I guess at this point, we can have a discussion on which tax rate you all prefer. And I guess the City Council, what we would like for you all to do is actually decide which rate to finalize it. That you all like to go with and vote on it. So we can actually start preparing to put the notices for the public candidates and put in this circulation. Perfect. So Paul, we weren't far away from your question. So I just didn't know how long we had. I do know that the reason that we're discussing this again, rushed towards the end of my pharmacy. A little bit of that, I think. Maybe we're gonna hear for that. I just can't really say I should, I believe, so on and so forth. But one of the concerns that SAP has brought up that I've talked what's about is, as we're talking about setting a rate, there was some clarity that I thought was good that staff gave was. So when we go to the public with this tax rate, that's actually what we're voting at the later meeting. It's not necessarily like we're going to go with one and then maybe there's a chance that we change it in the next one. We'll go to vote on it. So there's a little bit of some clarity. I don't want to make sure everybody knew. It was like a seat council member you guys probably knew that but the council members I thought those were not. The other concern that's been expressed is that obviously they budgeted, as we're saying, for litigation. The litigation line item is $400,000. As they're trying to tee up the budget and making sure that we're getting the proper tax rate. Litigation is obviously one of those variables that they're trying to adjust for. Currently, our trend does not, it doesn't substantially the actual budget. And so I have some concern there and I know we talked about a lot of stuff in the last meeting, but litigation, whether we have a plan to not be in litigation and spend X amount of dollars, we do need to pay attention to the trend and the budget as the way that we plan properly. And so for us to say, okay, we're going to go from a million plus line item this year, and then next year we're just going to plan for 400,000. I mean, we're kind of looking at that as like best case scenario, you know, is the way I look at it. It's a vast, vastly different number that will work currently sitting in. So that's where staff saying, hey, can we revisit this again for better dialogue, just to make sure as we're looking at the rate, because that's a big number. And as we talked about the flat tax rate, 3.9, and then your voter approval rate at 4.2, you're talking about the delta's 300,000. So essentially, if you add that to your $400,000, right, you're getting, you're not even at the current trend rate of expense for legal services. So you might have a big miss as the point that we talked about and for budgeting purposes you may have a big miss that might be 300 plus. So that's why we're revisiting this topic correct? Yes. Okay. So with that you had a very specific question, Councilman. I did. Yeah, so I'll get to my question of virgin. We can talk about the legal stuff. So Jay, back on the tax rate comparison slide, you sure that the flat rate. So this is zero. So I'm a 750,000 house. The last year, year to this year. There would be zero variance on the amount of dollars spent. Is that also taken into consideration the CAD and appraisals? Well, assessments. I can think about this is with the flat rate. With the flat rate with the flat rate. Well, in this slide, the flat rate was kind of like the comparisons. I use that as a comparison with the other race since that's the one we moved towards. But if we use the flat rate, I guess just based on the price of values of that home, if it increase from the previous year, I was definitely the tax bill will increase. So, so a $750,000 house, this taxing year, was how much of a house last taxing year? It depends on average. What kind of percentage increase did we see? I think we've probably been saying maybe like a fire to 10%. Well, I know annually we had been seeing about a 10% increase. But from last year to this year, do you know what we saw? Last year it was roughly, I think the total praises were like 3.1 billion and this year is 3.5. But with the same appraisal, it brings it down to 2.7. Well, some of that increase that you just referenced is new. Yeah, new develop. Yeah, so it's really worth, you know, to make this slide directly meaningful, you would have to factor in which change in appraisal values. Yeah, and you're saying that this doesn't think or it doesn't incorporate that. So then does the, when we go to the next slide, which show, is it the next slide that shows the, yes, so another is the general fund. Yeah, tax revenue then. Well, tax revenue is based upon the tax revenue of the new assessments, correct? And that is so. So it actually is more money in tax revenue from existing houses than it was last year. So we are so that their bill is already going up just by staying in flat. Correct. That's correct. That's a very good point. But when someone calls us and I guess someone calls you and then they're bill will increase but it's not because we raise door rates. Ah yes it's true because this brings us back to the discussion of definitions and we define a tax increase if we raise the rate. So even if if a phrase or assessments go down and the rate goes up, we are technically from a municipal standpoint, we are raising taxes, even though we're actually lowering taxes. Right. That's how the state works this thing. OK. So the flat rate says we're not raising taxes because we're keeping the rate the same, even though people's dollar bills go down. Because your house is more valuable, right? Yeah. You're going to pay a little bit more. Yeah. But it's the same rate as we had last year. So the market might agree that. So the city's budget goes up, which is funded by the people, which means more money comes out of the people's pocket, but it's not considered a tax increase because the rate stays the same. Exactly. It should not. Yeah. Yeah. I was also told that we have more income. We raise the taxes. Regardless. Right. Yes. Yes. Still makes us make that statement. I know. Yeah, we have we have rage. Yeah. And it counts as we got more money to be on them. But how about the reasons? Yeah. So so if you if we're bringing in more money than we did last year, then awesome still makes us say we raise the taxes. Right. Yeah. Even if we lower the rate, even if we're raising taxes. Right. Unless we want to lower our rate to the point where we take no more money in your pool. Exactly. Thank you. And then, so since I started talking already, I'm, Jeremiah, you're bringing up about the budget and legal costs. I think it's a really good point. Curious how, you know, in some of these legal bills it seems we have times of higher spending and times of lower spending. Have we received estimates from our legal counsel on where do you think they will be from a perspective of you know are we more on the tail on the are we on the less expensive side of some of these things? Are we not? And I realize like things like the term limits, right? All these things that brings up legal spending, like lots of things are coming up. So have we backed it all that stuff too? Yeah, so on legal, that's very hard. Yeah, pretend for them to trend, you know, until that bill's gonna be, I can tell you though, since the election, I was in meetings with you that we heard the same thing about two lawsuits that were, well, we'll kind of on the back end. And then I also know that the city manager cut a 200 plus thousand dollar check after that date. So, you know, you're gonna have things that kind of happen through throughout the process is that create the need to hold the spin. So it's like you can't just simply say okay well you know the attorneys I think they're kind of done. We also also use legal services I know that multiple council members have been on the phones with our attorneys just asking questions about certain things. I can be about you know it being somebody's application that's coming in that likes clarity you know on on standing and clarity there also some questions to the attorneys just just in general matters. So, I mean, those increase your bills too. And so, those are things that are hard to plan for that the city manager has specifically said, hey, that's why he sent communications saying, hey, if you're gonna reach out to the attorney, if you guys can give me a heads up, so that way there's some knowledge of what that spend might look like. Exactly. That's correct, Mayor. And I think the theory and the 400,000 that was my number that I gave to Jay. And it was it was based on the anticipation that never one we are in the tail end of the McLeaned Gism. And then also the federal case regarding the property that's in the city limits. And I'm very bullish that we're going to win that particular case. But all of the derogatory stuff and the legal stuff that's already been processed. And that's where we get hit. And then secondly, I think in years past, I think two years ago, a wreath of put in 250,000. And that's when we saw escalations, but even prior to that, we had about a $200,000 legal basis. And that was before the litigation occurred. And that was adequate just to run the city, just to operate the city on a day-to-day basis. To give you comparison with a much bigger city, Rockwell, there's what Mary has is $160,000. And also if there are new litigation, I've come to understand that RTML insurance has been very fruitful for us. And so that helps us out. So it was all these factors that I was, and all the voices that I was hearing that led to that. So I think it's still pretty high because we're going to still have work to do on some of these cases. And on one case, we're going to be looking for a settlement. But if we encounter any more litigation, if we have new litigation, then you should probably expect we'll come back with a budget amendment to accommodate that. And we'll keep it funded. It's, you know, and to to that point, and to your question, this just, you know, it's just how it works when you're trying to protect the city, right? Some of the brand of a problem. We have things that we've got a plan for as well, for future state and having proper foresight to what that expense would be. This is difficult. Secondly, when I hear things that were on the tail end of things, when we're talking about litigation, I'm sure that probably I wasn't on the council at the time, but with Bright, I'll wear the tail end of a few cases and then we ended up at appeal. And so we're not going to get it in the right wrong way or different, but it general depending on how some of these cases go. We may not be on the good of some of them that we believe will be on the table in the next day. Right. So depending on how it goes, there may be other steps that need to be considered down the road, some of these cases. You also have to think about counterclams and the risk of some of those elements because some of these lawsuits could have the specific dollar models that they're going to be asking for. So again, those are the risks that, you know, we look at that line up. These be really. What do you think it should be. I don't I don't have a recommendation. I'm going off of the city management staff and I see their recommendations. You just see risk. I see a lot of risks. I mean, to me, I'm very I'm very helpful. I'm very hopeful that that there's resolutions and I'm very hopeful about all these things as we talk about. But I'm also a trend guy and I look at the trend and I go, okay on one hand I can be as hopeful as I want. We can be willing, enable and all kinds of stuff but at the end of the day I go look at the trends as we plan forward and that's kind of a completely different conversation. Now that's a much more pragmatic, let's look at the numbers and try to make it make sense. That's what I want us to be careful of. It feels safer to put a plug in for that piece and I'm knowing the slope of the decline, the potential decline from an outlay standpoint. And that may give us coverage, right? And listen, at the end of the day, if that variance isn't covered, then I think we'd be more than happy to reappropriate that money towards something that has, you know, perhaps a, you know, more positive, you know, standing. But, you know, that may, that may help us cover that gap that we don't know sort of how that's going to go or the slope of that decline. And that's another reason why fund balance is almost as equally as important as just the rate that we're going to be trying because that's where fund balance is going to, if we have to make up some legal fee this next year, it's coming out of fund mess. So I want to keep it healthy. I think to that end and also, Scott's coming out of fun best. So I want to keep it healthy. I think to that end, and also, Scott's point of having that buffer terminology built in there, that is what the fun balance is doing. And so when I look at these numbers, and I look at best case scenario, worst case scenario, and then realistic scenario, in case scenario, and then realistic scenario. In my mind, I'm not interested in going above the flat tax rate. In fact, I'm always going to be tending back towards a lower tax rate of an equivalent tax rate. I understand it. We may not be able to get there, but to this flat tax rate already gives us about $250,000 buffer built in already, before we'd have to do any reappropriations. And so, to me, that's statistically that's getting comfortable for me. So in my mind, I'm not inclined to try to go beyond the flat tax rate. Looking out these numbers, and I appreciate you giving us this slide today, I wish I had print out of it to kind of like paper. I'll put it in the chat. But I think this is about what I had anticipated where the flat rate would land as far as the fund balance excess, if you will, at the 2 and a 10th percent. So, you know, I'm good with flat tax rate. And we increase the legal line. We would not be able to maintain the flat tax rate. Well, what we'd like to do if you're comfortable with it is just feel good. Feel a little bit better about the fund balance that goes with this flat rate. And then we need to get into it. I personally think we're going to use every penny, the $400,000, but I hope that we don't need a penny more. I think we just have to think that way. We want to work just, but I really didn't want to just populate it toward becomes a candy store. We don't want to miss it. We're all we all think like that. So we felt we had a you know we used a little bit of a discipline and making that line out of what it is and that we can adhere to that. Jake, can you pull up this Jake, can you pull up the slide for the fun balances from those pieces? Yes, at the bottom. Okay, you have one. Yeah, you have one that have the percentages on it. I think that one had the percentages. You think it would be different? Yeah, I don't expect that. Are you talking about that? Apparently not. Yes. Well, this slide is the impact of the 17th-period period. Yeah, it was one that had to share a 37 to stand. It's a large, larger slide. Sorry. 37, 30, yeah. Yeah. We're two points above where we got a two point. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry about that request. It's not about $15 per rooftop per month variance between what and what what? Blood. S. Motor approval. 121. And that annualized for public. Yeah, yeah, the voter approval annualized was $1 that's a minute of 96 13. Right. So monthly scale, we're talking about $15. $10. $10. That's $10. You know, the daily scale is either less than that. But there are the neighbors. I picked my taxes for a year. And what else I'd like to throw out there too is, you know, as a same free, stars to affect your all the wrong, you know, a principal value that we'll see the taxable value start to level off. And as you go down on your tax rate, it's going to be even harder to go back up. So with the town's in a part coming along, you're going to need additional staff and, you know, other things. As all these other places start coming along at the public safety facility, that's something else to keep in mind. And just knowing that your property tax revenue is your heaviest revenue. Anything outside of that is, you know, not as much, but roughly your property tax revenue is around 60 to 70 percent of a level of revenue of your general. But those activities that you mentioned or those deliverables are probably not in this budget cycle. It's not in this budget cycle, but your public safety facility is probably gonna be online in the next couple of years and then you're down some apart. Right. Ryan Kreat over here, he's already down right now. I sit in his face. Yeah, he's, and he's on a meat, a part superintendent and part people to, right, take that part. Let me stand still. We're intended and park people to take that part. For example, we've been in a live truckload preparation age. You're right. I know this I turned my mic off. They stopped. And it mentioned. Now that we're going to go wall council meetings to do the day. There was a much more pleasant. Jay, you were saying something about what we do this because it's so those got good point. So those those staff so yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there was going to be costs that come in with all those things you mentioned. Exactly. You mentioned something about how that about how those future down the road things play into this. Yeah, I was, I was like, your voter approval rate last year was 0.39, I mean, 0.3. This year is 0.29. If you continue to go down, they're going to continue to compress you, and you're not going to be able to go back up. And so based on valuations, you have to see it freeze as a variable. I think eventually, if you don't get the improvements, and with the water situation, it might slow down. But as your valuation starts to level off, if you're getting compressed with the voter approval rate. You're kind of stuck in a bind. Like I mean, you know, you might, you know what that additional revenue but, in order to do that, you're gonna have to do an election to make that happen. So, yeah. Well, if I may speak, please do. I've said in those shares, and I know there's political pressure all the time that deep detected well, I heard that I was on council for 12 years, we're around it. And I'll say yes in the future. No term limits, so I'll take it. No term limits there, I'll take it. Well, I certainly can. Who's a mayor? And who's a mayor? And then I realized I didn't even have to use, not this kid. I'm kidding. Sorry, carry on. I'm just kidding. I'm sorry, Kerry. Community could have everyone, if I know what's going on, it's not an amazing job and a face of it. I get it. But from the staff perspective, when I see a cantaloupe flirting with, when animals on their charter, what they got to keep in reserves, and want to do all this stuff in their city, what's going to happen is you're gonna pass long a few lines which breaks your eye in place which you can't change and your notion's gonna be from a political standpoint. My intent is that it was farmed is I'll just compress the immuno-rate. And I'll compress the immuno-rate by the nine burger services because that's what that is. The immuno is what paying this guy is what's paying for your blocks. It's our maintenance and operation. So I don't envy the spot you're in, but that's exactly what they're talking about here is your fund analysis. That's 35 mandated by the charter. Here, there's no room to play. You don't need to be aware of that. And as you continue to transform one of the proper right corner, but it's hard to get that back. And if you want to provide service for your community and the future, you've got to fund it. And so you take that pressure, so what you do, we pass it on, and then we can press the M&O rate. And at some point, you're going to have a service drop for that. And not advocating for any direction, but I think you'll have to have that knowledge and realize that I know some of you different, he totally gets it and it's younger leaders, I'll get to decide that but because of the legislation that's structured on being able to be straight back ever more than ever, Council's decisions in the moment, really handicap future councils. And I can see how you can argue that's a good name. You know, I'm gonna live here and keep my taxes low and I totally understand that too, but it may also keep your services low. But that's just my field. But I don't need the decision at all. Well, and I appreciate that perspective. Appreciate everybody's perspective on this. And that's why we're back talking about it just to make sure that we're all in the same age. And that we've got a good focus on where the concerns lie. Talking about the road maintenance. What's the line item for road maintenance? That's gonna be covered in here. Your general capital project fund. The line item for that is thank for FY25 is like 920,000. And it was seven something this past year I think, right? It was 20,000. And it was seven something this past year, I think, right? It was 250,000. We used fund balance. Change, burning. Yeah, we took away, yeah. We took it away from the streets to make the budget, geo, gotcha. So the compression that we've been doing is it could possibly lead to that. It went on service. Yeah. You get it impacts the roads. Yeah. Yeah. We can take it from what we can do for. Yeah. So you know, it's something. This would be totally greatest. But you know, at some point you get where we're a little cut to all the search and naiverness. Or we'll, if you want to hit him for you. We'll be cheap. We'll be cheap if I want to. We'll be cheap if I want to. We'll be cheap if I want to. We'll be cheap if I want to. We'll be cheap if I want to. We'll be cheap if I want to. We'll be cheap if I want to. We'll be cheap if I want to. in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in taxes, so you can press the M&O, but the tax rate really is the same, because the county came back and said, hey, you're not an excellent up to your point. Well, I'm not that good about people, I'll reduce the M&O to, and that means less money for services. And I don't, I don't, in view kinds at all, I totally get it, but the most abstracted that has to be transmitted to you guys. How underfunded do you think we are as it pertains to readiness as it currently? So you're completely reactionary. Right. So we don't have a real maintenance strategy. No. Part of that is it hasn't been presented. And so, you don't have that knowledge. And you don't have the opportunity to give us a baseline. And we haven't given that to you. I want to change that and bring that to you. And then challenge you to fund it. Yeah. And you're a down to you. I want to download you to fund it, where you're sitting. And beyond that to be sheeted politically, I don't want to do that. I'm sure you've got to say it. And I think you'll spot on, you'll be all heard, not the core communities. And I think you'll want to see nice things, but they're not free. And ultimately, against your and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, only fair. So I want to put you to a rock and a hard place, you're new to staff. So tell me as you look at it and a fresh set of eyes and obviously you're working through a number of outdated concerns, you're seeing CMO and your capacity management operation maintenance plan for waste waters in 2016 and you're working on getting that up today. You have your SWMP, your storm water management program. It's from 2018 and working on that. You've got a water conservation plan that dates back to 2018. And so you're trying to bring us all up to speed, right? From a city standpoint. And so as you look at roads, if you could swag an idea of the dollar volume that you're technically behind on, what would that be if you could even speculate? Well, that is a rock in the heart of place and I don't want to speak for city management. I can't just above the horse, right? Sure. In Sunnyvale, this isn the closest we can I can do that. I just did this. Over the last five, six years we developed the program where we did the road real-biz program. We just called them a program that had new the six different properties that they used in the biode. And over the course of the four years, Rocks for our left, a spent 17 million dollars. Different your roads up to what the council won. $250,000 will allow me to fill up bottles. So as it currently sits in the budget, you've got maybe enough to just keep filling in puddles. It's reactionary. You know, you would be able to do reactionary words of follow-up. You're not going to be able to fund a program. Not that much. Well, well, this guy is not going to handle them. 17 million dollars that in their operation, but it's not sure. But they've had the youth bond money But also with the understanding that they're immunovate didn't get compressed and that was a that was a real They had to sucky all the same things you guys had to say, you know What are our citizens want what do we want for our citizens and then and make your decision? It's it's not fun and I get it. I'm not suggesting anything other than be aware. Yeah. Be aware. That way God will and I'm still here for five years now. I know why you just react sharing on roads. That's the leadership that we were given. I know that sounds like I'm talking out, but I'm not. I mean, if y'all asked me with doing whatever, hey, put the program or the wheelchair everyone's house, that's what will occur. It would be truly expensive, but I know that's kind of going too far, but it's claimed that you're allowed to have community life. But because of the legislature and what they've done and handcuffed and you are moving around in the tax rates and I get why they get it and it's really easy to go out and really hard to go up and nothing gets cheaper and this is a community. I think you have an opportunity to keep it a certain way and you know with those numbers though Brian it doesn't seem like any of these tax rates provide the type of funding that's necessary. That's based to the slope you get on. Yeah. To where, you know from the missile side I when I sit in here and I'm talking to you, my guts, I mean, we need all the money we can get out of the council and get down that road. But when I go home and see my text, I'm like, sorry, son of the gun. Well, leave me alone. Sure. Yeah. I get it. So, let me ask this question. I'm listening to Mr. Bernard. The, one of the tours that we've received. Showed us a road. Showed us the deterioration inside of the neighborhood. How old is that concerned for that neighborhood? Willow Springs? Yeah, the post-prime? Yes, sir. I think that's just been on radar for about five years. So there's a five year old problem and those residents see it every day and they're worried that at some point, if this bridge goes out, you know, we're gonna have to basically be driving over a turf area to where we're getting to another road, right? Now I'll say the last two years is really a sell rate. You think out here? But for two years, two to five years, we've known that that's a pretty big project. What's that project going to cost? Roughly. You guys remember? China Army Model N. Yeah, I don't remember. I get a cab. It's right. It was over $1 million. So a million dollar project for a neighborhood that has, do you know how many homes are in that neighborhood, roughly? What will those be? Yeah, about 50. Yeah, that's a good fact. So, so, so maybe it affects and it won't affect everybody at the front of the neighborhood, but would affect, you know, 40, 35 to 40 homes would cost a million dollars to rent it. I know that we just fixed a covert that fell through on on Terry. Could you tell me what the cost was an estimate on that? Just so we have some level of gravity, I'm not out of it. It was about $20,000. How much? It was right at $20,000. So $20,000 for a culvert replacement. And it's not that permanent concrete. Like we went in there with the, you know, we definitely don't have money to do a full-blown box goal or with concrete. I mean, we did another 10 more and then some higher early, don't know how much of it, but let's go. It's, you know, which is a reactionary claim. I mean, it's not a road rid of the rehabilitation plan, where we're rehabilitating, you know, the area. It's a reactionary that's facing it. Now, it'll last, I mean, it probably lasts 30 years. I'm sure it'll last another 30. But it's not an option. And I think that I keep saying that. So you guys, there's gotta be a point. You know, because, you know, exception to rich. I mean, I'm, what is the life of 15 years from now? The need you are on this board. We're on this council. I say that in love. Of course, Dave. Of course, Dave. And, and there's a few of you, careful what you guys do today or enable by what you guys do today, whichever it is and it's not my fault that goodness you guys are the smart ones and you're you know What they're pretty thinking is going to affect them today but according to them and them and and Just from my experience, you know, it's dangerous It seems like the only way to solve for this and to Sort of bridge this gap and get us to a point where you you know, we're at least heading in a positive direction is a combination, right, of axes and bonds. You're not going to get there with, you know, you know, with your, it is got to be a combination of those things with your your mom's a picture pencil. Yeah, I'm absolutely aware. And, you know, whether it was you or David Herbert or Matt, there used to be a plan. You know, Richard, you would drive around, so here's the areas of the road. Need to be repaired. Here's so much we need, and we funded it. Now, was it an accurate plan? Was it an adequate plan? But we had a plan. We were given a plan in the past. Well, we need 350. We need 200. You're given a reactionary plan to murder a place as many animals with this. But I'm going to bring you more of us believe that you're going to have an opportunity to look on roads and make it determination of what you want to see. What when this road falls below this percentage, you want or not. And we have a lot of new roads that are eventually not going to be new. So let's all these roads that we need to power. And so what he's referencing is a preventative maintenance. And it says a month in the P. So and I don't go ahead. Okay, I don't want to step into another you know dark area but you know okay so we're doing a lot of pay forward stuff too. Are we doing too much of that? Pay for, for fire trucks equipment. Yeah, we do. We're placing a plan. I'll do that. Yeah, we have a vehicle replacement plan. And of course, that's incorporated every year. The general 10 year capital improvement plan is almost same lines. But if you look at that plan, that senior in your binder, the first, well, the FY25 fiscal year, there's only a transfer into the general capital improvement plan of $150,000, $500 from the general fund for FY25. Now, it's good, remember, you're gonna jump. You're gonna slip in from, you know, back to over a million in the following fiscal year. So how do you find that? So I think at the end of the day, I think any direction we're gonna, we're gonna be kicking some of these projects down the street, you know, we're not gonna be able to do this because we're not gonna have enough funding in the general capital improvement fund to cover all these projects unless you start a bunch. But a lot of your pay as you go that we typically do out of the general fund making that transfer into general capital projects. I think next year as far as the transfer, well the following fiscal year, just making that transfer and trying to meet the the finance and needs of all those projects is probably not going to happen because we're already compressed as it is. But I'm glad we have a plan that way we can kind of see where things are going to get moved and you know push forward and that's something that we need to do every year just updating that plan and adding things. You almost have to look at these things in a multi year form. Exactly. Exactly. You know, because there's no way you can claw back in a 12 month budgetary process and make something like that happen because it's just. Exactly. Unreasonable from the amount of taxes that it would take or the bonding impact or anything else. Yeah. I'm not thinking impact or anything else. But you could probably do that lift over a three-ish year timeframe, right? Exactly. So some of your projects in your general, I foresee just with the compression, if we keep going down, you're looking at 10, 20, well, 20, 30 years, that plan that we actually have. Because I don't foresee us being able to find it with those compressing the tax rate like the pay. Right. Let me ask this question. The Lakeway Drive. We saw that that road. We discussed it thoroughly in fact talking about the the injection to raise and fill in the void. That's very large. What is that cost? Just that alone. Is that that was a okay, you could replace this and go through the whole process, or let's fill the void and get something going immediately. What is just the remediation cost of that? We got 125,000 dollars in there to budget. But that's what it's covered. It's time. It's a number. What's that on the? I would drive the anything on the range. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not on the drive down. Correct. Oh, it's better to. Yes, it will be. Oh, it will be. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna make it. It's gonna be in the storm drainage. That way, yeah, it'll be there. Oh, yeah, versus 2.2 million. Period. And, and, and the only reason I bring that out is I'm trying to get some tangible dollar figures. So that way we can have a more robust dialogue basically. So $120,000 for a remediation, not really a, you know, let's get this all fixed. You're talking about roughly a road that could affect, you know, if there's a failure in the road, another 25 months, right? So, again, we're talking about, you know, how many homes are there? 4,000? No, we don't think so. So, we talked about two different projects that literally the remediation eats up the additional cost that we're talking about $300,000. So I'm just trying to relate the certain elements to a dollar figure to a rate. If that makes any sense. Do we have any other questions from Council on this? Yeah, just to clarify, we've been talking about the street budget basically. So I think I heard some numbers 150 or 250 years old. But I'm looking here as a, looks like 408,000 to me. So am I looking at the wrong number? No, that's correct this year. It was more or less year two than we were. We had a compressive paper over the bottom. So, and prior to that three years ago, was it 680? Yes, yeah, it was roughly, yeah. It's around 600 pounds. So we were trending at that budgetary item being in the 600,000 dollar range. It zeroed out in the last two years or needing it in the general fund. And having flexibility to be a equal cost and and then now we're coming back into it. Well, we're not going all the way to what it was three years ago. Is that it? Whether I'm hearing? Yeah. Yeah. And then in we end, not even blaming this is stats for, you know, we're going to talk a I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. about the out one of them. You know, I probably want to walk you here through your screen. How do we get here? Well, we've been present every year and there's nothing left. You know, and then let's go back to the installation. RJ, if you guys can just walk the new accounts number back through for just full clarity is, when you move the tax rate and you're referencing some simulations that legislature has given us. What is that again if we move it off we can only move it up one time over a subset of time. Let's go back to that granular element. Yeah, the the treatment taxation calculation that that's utilized to calculate the tax rate. My statute is is actually designed to compress your tax rate where you can't increase it. So if you can essentially go down on, they're gonna, you know, they're gonna go down on the water pool of rates gonna go down. They're gonna bring the top end down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to bring the ceiling up. Yeah. They're going to bring the ceiling down on them. And if you have a decide or if there's a like a dire need, hey, you know, we really have these needs that's inclusive. Well, you have to go through an election. And everybody knows what comes along with that sometimes, you know, whenever you're, you know, willing to go over that right. But that's that's pretty much it. The way the truth and taxation calculation is, is it's designed to come for a. And so the lower your taxes are. Sure. Is it even lower? Yes. Well, we're in the conservative state. I said, go down there and tell them, I'm on the own bitch. And then that's just one very, but you also have the senior tax freeze that, you know, once you hit eight of certain age, hit locks in your tax mill, so you're not paying any additional. So if you're in an aging community, yeah, that's kind of a double tap. Yeah, I'll be trying to get here in 65. So at the end of the week, that's perfect for both over-community. You might go to and you see what they've already done, this, but the goal is, now because of this, they can't get out of it. Right. Yeah. They can never get back to it. It's a billion dollars, picks their roads and they can't know what happened. You know, and before you know it, they only have one photo for the officer. Everybody's house, which is a certain way. You know, you see a community's disvolved parts. And y'all are going to go from that growth and dictate how this city evolves or grows and even looks in the next few years. And the ones that have been year-old, I'm going to have a big impact on that. And it just matters. And I would say congrats on being so thoughtful about this. It's important. And it actually makes me feel good about working here. Well, you don't want to bond something that's not going to last 20 years, right? You don't want to bond potholes. You know, that wouldn't be very similar. You know, I mean, it's like you're right. That's a great one thing you can cancel in crowds. I think you know that wouldn't be very serious. I'm going to be the remainder of the speaker right there. That's a great one thing you can councilman Cruz. I'm going to ask one of the questions. Let me do a great job. We make sure that we're on the my house. We do a great job. You guys do a great job every year of keeping track of your rate and how the rate. It cares that others in our region and with them staying. And we do have a very low rate in terms of across the state of Texas. Susan keeps tracking out for us. You're welcome. As far as the councilman. Thank you, Councilman Caron, State Councilman. But I will go on the record. I thank you guys for your hard work in doing that. Absolutely, it's not easy. In the core of the control, we're in the bottom 20% tax rates. So that's fantastic. Before we get the census, we can also income. We're one of the top 10 wealthiest cities in Texas. So there is a big difference between our wealth and our transfer rate. And I think what rise into is that expectation, level of expectation in the community of service and our abilities are planned that. So just kind of rally out the conversation, like Brian was saying, it's an incredible job. You guys have balancing balancing that. This will conserve the chism and the role of it in the community. So. Very good. Thank you, Mr. Dome. Councilman, other other questions? Great dialogue. The discussion is great, so I appreciate you guys. There's a lot of elements to it that just really have to be deeply considered. Councilman Woodford and Jerry. I was gonna say, I love that we're in the bottom quadrant, but I also realized that it's a smaller piece of a bigger valuation. So it does, that's been kind of the thought is, as valuations go up, let's just make sure that we're being wise about not just letting taxes go up because valuations go up. It's been a long time. It's about actual money. Right. Whatever that is. And hopefully it funds what you guys see if you're talking about. Exactly. A def defensive budget. But I think what we're hearing is that there's not the potential. There is a service gap, right? In our ability to perform basic things like road repairs and what have you from the tax rates that we have traditionally looked at. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm not saying those bad decisions at all. I mean, shoot, I love the fact that, you know, we're in the bottom 20% and center, but I also agree that there is a level of expectations from the community. I mean, I'm going to be a little bit controlled to expectation back on you. No, that's all right. We heard of it. We heard of them when we knocked on doors, Brian. Don't worry, it's bright enough. It is. You know, and now you don't come back to the years and find out why we have eight of our parts people running or not really going to the table. But, well, it ain't funny. Well, and I have been asked about Parks and how we plan to manage that. I know, I know, Councilman Cross has a lot of experience on the park board over the years. You know, that is a- You Steve. Yeah. of experience on the park board over the years. And that is a, you know, it is a growing concern, right? That, you know, how are we going to maintain, you know, what you guys have? Programming, utilize the parks that we're building. Yeah. And, you know, we're not going to be able to afford everything. I mean, you think about it, you're right. It is kind of a judgment of, you know, there's pond and sky and then there's, you know, oh crap, we're going downhill. And then there's a reality somewhere in the middle. And there's some level of growth because of growth. That's how we got to hire more officers. So, you know, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you, we're going to need, There's an open that station. I have seven on each it now. So that's. I've heard of five members total, but I don't need 15 more just open to see all that station in two years. We better start the bake sales now. Non-diagnosed funding. That's the next conversation strategic funding. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, I love it. Hey. Look at for that. What are, what are some other concerns, right? We talked about roads, talked about the P.S. What are, what are some other concerns? And, and as you look, as you look at this tax rate and look at the budget, I mean, I only assume that you're being extremely conservative in some ways. So what are some other variable concerns that you guys have heard about? As we roll in population, in fact, I would cement from my experience in other cities where active are about to have more in the population to have a customer service team to respond to every day considerations. And that can just be one individual. Two ladies out front, they do a really good job, but they, you know, they're spread apart. They're going to do some administrative stuff. We've got to deced it. Calculating stuff and they take a lot of abuse out there. But it would be nice to have even a bit just a consultant, some of the things that respond and prioritize citizen complaints and then get them transferred to the property. Let me ask this. And again, just for newer Council and I don't know, if our legacy council members know any of this, how many from a communication standpoint, how many phone calls do we receive in that would qualify for? How many emails do we receive in? Could you quantify something on a weekly basis sometimes a slow day will we'll get to on a fast day I'll give maybe about 12 to 13 and that's just for you as the city manager for a resident yeah now they do sometimes funds, and it takes several days to respond to those things. So, but, you know, like, but, cities they have a way, you know, thank you, Mr. Jones. We have received you based on the information you requested and anticipate. We will have a response when the next 24-year You know, it's 24 hours or so. And I know that is a hot, you know, for people when they call in and sitting on it. Sometimes it's, I get busy and I forget that. And then that's the, oh my god, I look about email. Usually when I'm at home, and I check my email, I go, I forgot this one. But it, because it because it's when you just be help organizing the complaints of the concerns of our citizens. Just everyday stuff. We've got leads on this sidewalk. Simple stuff. It seems to document. I will echo some of this as a newly elected mayor. I took it. as a newly elected mayor. I too get those. So, and they're very valid and they are very concerned. And we wanna address them very quickly. But yes, it is weeded your weeds. It is very, and it goes down to weed management to a tree that's fallen down, you know, all kinds of items. So that is one reason that Suzanne works very quickly and thank you to Lisa and Mrs. Delph, for working on that citizen portal. I know that we've got some strategies to try to promote that in the near future, because that citizen portal kind of got a pretty big makeover. And it helps staff to kind of streamline those communications into a management system and it's a management system that's good for the citizens and good for staff. So for citizens, I can kind of see the progression of their request or their concern. So there is some of that using software as a strategy to mitigate human capital needs. But that also comes into communication strategy to help citizens understand where they can go and how they can get their and what they can do. And a phone call is typically probably the very first thing that people utilize. Does it help? I would add on to what Kevin mentioned about customer service staff. We also, I see a growing need that were more technical staff as well. Co-inforcement, Councilman Dotson mentioned HR, directing oversight in that area. Right now we have a dual role for HR. Yeah, we have a human resources clerk. And none of these things that we're kind of talking about customer service HR. None of that's in this budget. Okay. So you're talking about each other. And it truly has gravity to the granular elements as none of us have an office inside of City Hall and see the inner workings of the everyday. We're essentially policymakers. And so having this insight helps us as we do make this decision. So Susan. I just wanted to add, you know, we've put in a budget of push notifications system and researching the different systems. It's looking like we're able to get an emergency alert system that allows us to do general notifications and the program that we want us to wrap into it. I think it's on the work financially it's called text like app and it tries to have the massive database of FAQs and I'll still remember as a text, it's like what they might call girls. I mean, big, got trashes, so I mean, it's Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving trash, you know, text, boom. And it takes you straight to that on the website. We have tons of information on the website. Sure thing. But people can't think of this. It's that it is, but it's because nobody agrees. I think it's not about to be a different kind of thing. So we are headed incrementally in that direction. We use technology to build the open grid with our GIS, which is starting to be functional. That was a big thing in the last week. So we, and I think so, but I'm thinking we're reaching a point of kind of a, we'll get to a level of a neutral returns on that where we're going to need people power to manage on this. Another risk of risk on the staff side of the day is IT. Now, Dandy is our ID. We're about to have three locations, city hall, whisper noise, DPS, and a full network facility, and a new park that has a lot of technology, new tech office, work on the path, or scheduling, what not, for programs there, and audio, visual, economics, and that, which we have at the age of four or four outwards, at least that was a bit more than such. Having more at least another person in our IT department seems like a no-brainer to track you toward that. I would think that, you know, again, I'm going to come back to that. You know, we're talking about some very tactical things from a staffing perspective, customer service, you know, HR, code enforcement, etc. We're also talking about some big bucket items, right? Like water and infrastructure and road improvements, et cetera. It just seems like we need a multi-year approach to this from a strategic perspective so that we can, you know, I grew up in India and so I like things in buckets, so they're easy for me. So you have things in the buckets that you're tracking over this continuum, over this period of time, that allows you to do kind of a multi-year look at things. If we, I think, just keep managing within a yearly cyclical budget, you never get to the larger things, but you can never generate enough money in a single year to actually deliver on all these things. And it generates a feeling almost like a dread of things that was coming. Right. The enthusiasm and excitement about being able to expand. Right. So, you know, I know that we're obligated to do an annual budget and we have to do that. But I think if we had a line of sight and then we could, I like to say a lot, you get what you can articulate. We can articulate to the public and to our citizens. Here are the things that we're working on to deliver over this timeframe in these big bucket areas. And let's just say, I don't know these are the right buckets, but let me just throw these out. Water roads, infrastructure, right? Seem to be at the top of a lot of people's minds. I'm sure there are other things, but let's just say those are three. Plus then you have plus things, but let's say if you plus then you have, well we're going to, you know, brand new keys are you taking your jobs? Yeah, I'm just kidding. So then you have kind of the operational items in terms of head count services, because I think with effluency comes a level of expectation. Usually those requests don't get less. They get more and they get, you know, sometimes strange. But those requests will certainly get more as we get more effluences as time goes on. I'd like us just to think in terms of that, maybe we'll at least put that out for consideration because that can allow us to get a further line of sight on this whole budgetary thing so that we don't try to solve for everything in one year knowing that we can't. Yeah. It's a sinking feeling to your point knowing that you just can't get after all of it in one year, but boy, over a three year plan, if we can get some general agreement on these macro areas, then we kind of know what's coming up. Yeah. And so are our citizens and people willing to say, okay, we're going to hang in there because now we're going to be able to track the all against what you said that you were going to do and deliver over this period of time because we know that it's a longer term process. Yeah. And so great. You guys, the terms of stewardship. Yeah. Yeah. Looking my outfit, create a smash, you know, a small, right. Looking. So you're talking about expanding like this utility project options, one, two out out years, add to the answer. Yeah. You know, you know, park, yeah. Just so we can do it. Just, you know, rich just so that we can articulate it and say look if whatever the buckets are that that we decide the main things that we're after. Here's kind of what we're doing about here's our vision of how this city is going to be shaped and formed over this period of time. And here are the types of things that it doesn't mean that you can't do trade off down the road, but the big ticket items probably are going to change that much. Yeah. And what we've done, Aaron, talk about it briefly, was just a preliminary discussion, is just how to approach these budgets in future years. And I mean, that's all a part of strategic planning. And if each department is able to present to the body and you have the strategic plans and how lots for their department, then you have more knowledge and information on, you know, how to make decisions in the future. Just working as a team and that respect. And from our perspective, it also makes the budget very defensible. As someone says, why did you raise this? Well for this. Yeah, often it often it goes into a black box yeah to the community and so when I get as a you know if I put my community member hat on and I get my bill in the mail I'm like what the heck yeah what are you doing with that extra money? Yeah yeah yeah and to that to that point you know and I understood uh Mraver's point and to Council and Rufo's point. I heard 5% general fund balance and online, okay, give me something granular. So that's why I had a lot of follow up questions on help me understand the granular parts of the effects of the granular parts, help me understand the road budget line item, how did we get to zero? And how does, you know, this is, as Councilman, we were said, 400,000, why is it not 680,000? Like it was three years ago. And the roads only getting older, it's not getting younger, it's not going on. You're only getting work traffic on it. So trying to understand that, and then, to the litigation line item, setting aside hopes of that budgetary line out of the understanding trend, to me, it's almost like the answer to our own question is that our road budget is, you know, more than conservative. It's less than what we were planning three years ago. And then on litigation, when I really follow the trend, and looking ahead and things they could come. So again, the additional $300,000 that we're talking about doesn't fix all of the things we talked about. It barely even scratches the surface of what those two line atoms are. So again, that's why I wanted to have the dialogue and I'm trying to sway or steer or any of the edge of wanting some really good robust dialogue to ask the questions. And I have you guys asking the questions. So at this time, are there any other questions that you have for staff? I do. So I know over, as we go through these different economic times in our nation, and I know Texas stays far more consistent than many other places, which I'm super thankful for. We've gone from times when there's a lot of increase in development and increase in valuations of homes. We're going at least entering or into more of a down time, where we're not seeing an escalation in valuations and we're not seeing as much construction going on. And so that's one thing in past years, we've had the blessing of being able to rely on some of the new growth to bring in some revenue. So my, so that was one of my questions. As we look historically back through our budgets, what percent year over year revenue growth were we seeing from just new construction because we knew as that slowed it was going to bring other decisions and the other decisions. Sustain it. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. The same thing that has slowed this year. Yeah. Because we only got 22 building permits. Right. And last year we was was a nine year low. Yeah, 70 or something. Yeah, you know that it was a quite a big deal. But that it was, yeah, I was like back in the 1980s. It was really nice. Well, Heath Coffinus got some new sections coming on pretty quick. So I don't think that'll continue. I think the next year or two. The targets already coming in. They're handing out out there because that's a free of fruit. Black and the, you know, because that's a free of prison. Black and there's a goes. All he talked about. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, I'm written. Renapured. I'm a short time. You better. You better retract back. I'm a decent. My last. So we'll say two, three, four years ago, as we had a higher degree of construction, do we know what kind of percent revenue we had coming into the budget from those new construction homes? Yeah, I have to be sort of sad. I know from last year, from this year to the information I got for next post year is cutting half the new improvements. So, so I can kind of answer that question a little bit just from memory. Typically our, again, this goes back to the truth in taxation laws and so forth. We would have to claim what our increase in taxes were, even though we hadn't increased taxes and you know, you know, we know it. Right. Right. But we would have to claim what our increase in taxes were, and those were almost exclusively always from Newbrook. usually kind of in the $150,000, $250,000 a year, somewhere huckering in that 150 to 250 a year of new revenue, increased revenue from new development. So that's a ballpark. So you guys did have a lot of new growth. Hey, well, well, well, well, more than we had revenue now. We had revenue. What a work. That was. So we had a, we had about 200 permits. Two years ago, a relish in. Yeah, there was about two years in the road that we did 200. And look, 200 new, all new projects. Yeah, right. Yeah. The promise. Right. Right. How was the stock of about 4,200 at that time? What did you have a thousand units? Are you selling accounts? Yes. 200 knew what the F5% change approximately. And I think on average over the years, it's been closer to about 120 something kind of on average per year that 200 was a bit of a spike. So three to five. Yeah. Three to five, two point eight. We're getting pressed for time right now. When we have our, I guess, our first public hearing, we can present, get you that historic information, do you think we can? Just to give you and also the citizens of the anatomy of what we've trended in terms of new. Well, and the reason I'm asking about this is because from an operating model perspective, we've had the blessing of being able to be very fiscally conservative because we had new houses coming online, but we knew that year or a year we did need extra dollars to sustain the community. So if the new construction coming online is dropping down, then I think that's from a business operating model perspective, I think we need to talk about that. Well, and that's what got us, that's what even in our previous meeting got us off the equivalent rate moving towards the voter approval rate. You know, and so recognizing those facts that you just presented, that's what, that's what, allowing an offset if you will. And it is going to create more revenue this year than it did last year because of valuations. And currently model 400,000 on roads, 400,000 for legal services. You're saying that if we're at the flat tax rate, that ultimately you're gonna keep your fund balance at 35%. 37%? 37%? Yeah, thank you. Thank you. And is that also includes the 7% of public safety and then our water plan? Oh, yeah. That's what the 4% merit in agreement. Yeah, and I would propose changing it. Not the one. Yeah, right. So you don't get your request from 11% Yeah. I'll remember. Yeah, I have to do it next year. And that's again, we had a tightening and compressing things. But, uh, and then, uh, Norma has her hand. Uh, patron in the rubbed, but you don't have a whole lot of time before you get in general on the road. And there's some food in there. You got one for eating and one for the gas you're talking. Very raw. So what they want to mention is what we've been doing is burning some fun balance. We used to have a heck of a lot more than 35%. Yeah. Yeah. And I know when I was on council, it's not conservative to start raising your taxes when you have access to fund balance. Yeah. We're not our neighbor's banker. We're, you know, I think 25% is what's typically recommended to a government. We're at 35. I'm not saying we should do less. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we determined that to be 35% of the price. But that's why we get the AAA ratings and all that for our bonding. So certainly been what worked. And we've always managed to, I mean, you guys are magic, which I will say, and I do want to say, because I've worked in DOD to stuff up a lot of different businesses. This isn't, you give them the budget, that's their goal to burn it. You know, they're still very conservative and they you know work through their budgets and work. No, no, it's true. I've seen that year after year, you know, and the other thing I'm going to mention is so if you're saying we need 15 officers in two years, do we have any new officers in this budget? No. Chief, you he's working on the safer. Yes, actually, we're a professor safer. We should hopefully know by the end of the end of the year. We get it out of these six officers right there. There's some of the non-deutiful piece that could be called to share. Yes, we can catch the way we play our buddy, Disha. What? I was panicking. I was still offering some hot, Thai ask for positions. Because we don't retain the one we have. We're going to be kind of in the four-streg, but we can't over. We can't over. You can lay them off. But did all the. The assistance to work. And it's typically ever since. the assistance to work and typically ever since COVID-19, but this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and We want to see a way for us to achieve the macro things that we want to achieve without this and that strategy. It's not an or in my opinion based on the things that we're saying we want to do. I think it's a combination of tax, whatever that rate is and a bond that allows us to get to a level of deliverables that we want to in order to achieve the things that we want to achieve as a city. I just don't see a way that you can pay for these big projects without doing that. All right, very well. So obviously for the sake of time, and in fact, we have water planned discussions planned. What time are we needing to leave, Michelle? No, I don't know how many months long. I'm not talking. I'm not thinking out of your edge in the chat whether or not you're not talking over. Okay, so for the sake of time, thank you. And I apologize, but I think great robust conversation. So we could do we have any further questions, comments as it pertains to what break? What does that have to do? In which we're trying to strategic. Real quick, Mayor, we need a, we, and this has to be a vote for that. Yeah. It does need to be a vote. Yes. Yes. So there is an action on this. Yeah, we basically you direct staff to advertise to public hearings. And you want to make a motion on whichever the tax rate you all decide that you want to go. Okay, so per the agenda, we just have discussion. Would you not have action? Does that create any issues for us? No. No. Definitely. All right. So we're just solidifying the direction that we're headed. So the weekend I meet the state requirements for posting. Proposing the tax rate that we're recommending. Yes, right. But we're not technically voting on tax rate until. That's until later date. On tax rate until on the day. That's an unofficial vote is essentially kind of where we're headed. Yeah, you just just give it. Don't need open emotion. Yeah, tell a school number to put the notice and then. So we're doing a struggle. Right. Yes. We don't have any legal representations. I guess what you do we want. We're not taking action on approval above. Yeah, just yeah, and we want majority to give that direction. Very good. So we have direction. Councilmember Rufo, would you provide your choice for direction? I choose one of one of these rates. I mean, I just to advertise that mean you're that's what you're gonna bring just to put in the average. Once you've had that that's the whole reason that yeah yeah yeah yeah once you once you vote on the proposed rate the whatever y'all decide on the combined tax rate is the ones you choose from. That's the actual rate that will be submitted for the public hearing and using for adoption on September 24th. It'll be the official. Yeah, but does that obligate them? Once we notice that, let's say, to obligate them to approve that rate. Okay, they don't have to, but it will probably complicate it. But it will be difficult for you. It will be very troublesome for them. So, okay. Did you get an answer? Yes. Oh, clear as well. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. So, I think we need more discussion about it. When we start talking about percentages and historical things and where we are at and increases in valuations over the last year. So we're on a time clock. All of us are volunteers. We've been talking time out of our day and start to come back. So I understand your point. I saw what I'd read with you, but I also understand timelines and the staff's meeting. So I'll come back to you on that topic. That's fair. Councilman Mormont. Like I said last time, I would go with the voter approval rate. That's probably not going to go over well with this council. But the tax rate has to increase with all the things that we heard today. I don't know who named this de minimus because it means lacking of importance. And it's actually very important. So I don't know how they will say that. Okay, so but it doesn't lack importance. It's very important. It needs to be raised. And I would say please consider the de minimus rate. Okay. So, you're leading to Minimus or voter food? Councilor Wheel? Still leading flat tax rate. Okay, that's right. The sir and Mr. Dawson. I'm leading the Minimus voter approval. Probably more to the dividends. Okay, that is a strange name, but yeah. Yeah, yeah but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're not going to tell us the crowds. The maximum is a. Yeah. That's right. I'm going to tell me. Right. And council group. I'm sorry. Yeah. I mean, I would say I'm somewhere in that. Flat rate to diminish range. Like somewhere. I'm okay with coming up a bit, but I also wanna make sure that we talk about in more granularity, right, command. Complizat, Helgian. I mean, I'm even more on it. So, I have it, I think it's just a moment. I thought, and I am taking into account, not all of my questions and the answers and the requests from staff, but I'm also taking in council and we were talking about the proud council member council and more than council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and council and I would try to fly the middle ground of a diminished tax rate. So I think at this time, the majority of the council would lean towards diminished tax rate. And I think that meets the two council members that were really leaning towards flat rate. Can you shift to the slide that shows, includes the percentages? It's expanded, thank you. That's it. Yeah. Four versus two. Variants. Mm-hmm. So is the variance two from the equivalent rate? Two, that's where some of the variance means the addition over 35%. Yes. How far about the 35% minimum? Oh, yes. You too. What about one balance variance. Yeah, that's your extra extra money. Yeah, in the case we need it from legal fees or a lot of hot holes. Well, and again, budgeted legal fee and are currently not even an alignment to our last two years trend, right? So, and the road is still not an alignment to three years ago. So, respectfully to everybody, I think a very robust dialogue, very much appreciated, very much a difficult conversation now, but I think the majority of the body is saying, the dividend was tax rate and the difference of roughly a $100,000 annualized rate. So it's not the max of the 300,000 delta, but a hundred thousand. A hundred thousand. Two hundred thousand. That's correct. Thank you. On the second, thank you. Okay. All right. Almost enough for the DVS. Message received and then you say majority that doesn't mean that I'm good at both Just to see if you got the majority okay We're just trying to find a majority that we give Give step I want to say and I'm not I'm not gonna quit myself politically to that so it's I'm not sure I follow that comment but okay. Any other questions? Okay, moving into the water. You have a total of 10 minutes. Make this clear. Because we're going on a tour to you, to look at benchmarking and continue the water conversation. Okay. This is just what's happening in reference to the short and long-term plan that we discussed at the last budget workshop. The resolving the litigation with North Texas and reinforcing the relationship with North Texas and and the city of Raukwa, this and process. I did send a copy of the 10 year capital plan. Option one doesn't include all aspects of the short term, long term plan, but the option two does. So he's going to run those numbers. I want an option to and actually bring us the outcomes of how that that's going to impact the utility tax rate. Based on the information I received from him. I'll start discussions with health type securities on issuing debt on the utility fund. The rest of the things are in process, dialog and RCH. Richards, alternate water source study and add in the high point and wells into his scope. and that study. And based on today, if you all agree with option two, that'll complete the 10 year capital plan. If not, we'll go option one. Brian, he's actually working on replacing the scale and Richard is in process of working on the water and sewer infection. In FY 2425, we're looking for drill. The water will number one, that's Townsend Apart. Based on the subject of option two, I'll start or either or option. I'll start discussion with hilltop securities to issue the debt with those projects discussed. We'll start design of the elevated storage chain in FY25 as well as design of the ground storage chain in FY25 as well as design of the ground storage chain and FY25. And FY26 will drill the two wells one at Fulton Academy and the other one at City of Rock Wall, Co. Number one and just based on the design and construction of the elevated storage tank and ground storage tank. We should have those completed in F-26. And I guess whenever you get a time, just look at these two options. Sit, they agree with them based on real quick jay just in general the difference between the two options is the number of wells yes the number of wells and the grounds floor is tank. Rock all grounds for it. Yeah. And also the funding. So you go from 15 million if you do everything all together trying to get that done in the next two years It's gonna be 34.6 million and that all has to be incorporated into the utility rate study and we'll see exactly how that's gonna impact Everyone's utility rate So James I'm sorry, Brent. Yeah, we you. So Jay, the realization of what these wells produce would be in the year following the spend, or where the spend is being recognized. Yeah, that's what we're asking. Yeah, I think they're the wells there. Yeah, well, yeah, I'm just saying that, that, that, that, so there's about a, call of a 12 month lag that we can expect in terms of productivity of these wells from the time the spend is generated. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. here is as you know assuming that these wells are fruitful and productive what we don't know is if that well capacity is going to be deducted from our supplier capacity such that the wells are a net zero increase in in in that sort okay so we've got to consider that unknown. You did. You're looking at it. Yeah, it's a risk. Thank you. Bye. Okay. And then regarding storage, you know, as you see in veterans, no, storage is a function of how much supply you have. Thanks. And, you know, additional storage doesn't, you mean, a good if you don't have any additional supply to keep it stored. You're out wasn't able to blow it. Exactly. It's not no longer. You know, or even told you about more than being able to blow. Right. Right. Agreed. However, also to on take or pay your 180 million gallons. In the last year that we did not take. But we paid for it. So if you had the storage technically, you would have, yes, or not in peak. Yes, issue. Yes, so little. Very one thing, you know, you've been so much very familiar. I can't pull water in that December. No, I told, I told you, I told you, I understand, I'm just kind of fundamentally trying to make sure that the cleaning is so bad. Because, you know, we're, you know, I have a very unique. Yeah, I mean, I think a product, a prime example is, if we have another five million in storage, that ultimately would have accomplished keeping us out of a stage two, for example, or another week. Right. Which is, is it a big deal to the largest state on earth? Well, but it's only one week. It buys you. That's the power is in our water. That's your point. Sure. You are just moving that water to floor two. It is something you've intended on doing already. Yeah, completely agreed as as. As supply capacity comes in the whole system scale. In fact, we were pursuing another ground storage tank, kind of on the east side of town, that's been in pursuit for a couple of years. And given that our current supply from that rock wall feed is limited, there really wasn't much clink and putting more storage there. So yes, I'm in full favor of additional storage as it pertains to additional supplies. Which is probably baked in in the assumptions that we put into these plants, right? So if we're planning for an increased supply, it goes along with planning for increased storage. Absolutely, yep. Right. Full agree. So and as we know about assumptions, sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't, and that's the kind that's what it's said. It is. All right, very well. Anything further on that? Oh, yeah. And I guess just the, just in relation to that, after Jason Ronses analysis of the Peaceful Fellows projects will bring that information to the council to make the mayor's heard me talk about this. People have heard me talk about this. The plan had always been to get our additional supply through our existing connection. And so we already have all the infrastructure, I'm sorry, we already have the pumping capacity built in to accommodate up to 18 million MGD, 18 million gallons a day through our latest pumps there, But that supply has been limited. So now we're, you know, pivoting strategically realigning. That was the plan. I had always been the plan, but it's not really the plan necessarily for our supplier, but maybe it is. Maybe it's not. That's still a bit of an unknown. So, that's still a possibility that we can utilize our excess capacity, excess capability that we have at that rock wall location for pumping capability. That's correct. That's correct. You're one of them. Yeah. We have five. Yeah. He completely agree with Councilman we were so very well said. Jay. All right. This is just the next steps. I have the City Council budget workshops. We know where we want to go as far as the proposed tax rate. The public hearing on the tax rate and the multiple feeds and the rate schedule. And on the budget will happen on September 10th. The notice of the public hearing will actually go out this week or next. It'll be publishing the newspaper and website. And on September the 24th, it'll be be the second leader and the final reading of the ordinance to adopt the budget and the first and final reading on the tax rate and the municipal fees and race schedule. So any questions and feedback. You all have a budget and tax rate. Any other questions? I guess regarding these two options, are we supposed to give you direction or guidance on which option we prefer or are you going to analyze both of them? Yeah, I'm going to analyze both of them. Okay. Perfect. I'm going to have Jason Gray to the analysis. There's so so you all how it's gonna impact the utility rate before we report. Correct. We need we need that study. We need that breakdown. So yeah, we can make a good directional push. Much like we we highly discussed the tax rate. Okay. So that that clarity is is key. Okay. Any other items there? No, that's it. Council, do you have any other questions? Okay, at 1256, this meeting is adjourned. You have four minutes to eat. Yeah, I'm busy. Fifty five minutes to get there. I'm looking. Miss Norma, how are we?