The Turnbull Creek Preservation Board meeting for March the 19th and it is 3 o'clock. The meeting comes to order. On the agenda, let's call roll. Member Brobic. Present. Member Warner. Present. Member Ingalls. Present. Vice Chair Weston. Here. Chair Ather. Here. Thank you. Okay. Next item on the agenda is to approve the minutes of the last meeting. I hope everybody had a chance to read through those minutes. Do I hear a motion to approve? I move to approve. A second. Second. I just have one question on those minutes. Okay. Matter of fact, the very last one. Now, you said I'll recommend the City Commission to obtain an appraisal for the 24.5 acres on page avenue. That was in addition to the eight acres you wanted to possibly see in a place. Okay, let's just need to get that. Yes, there's two, there were two parts. Okay, thank you. Okay, can you call the roll please? Member Robich. Here. Member Warner. Here. Member Ingalls. Here. Vice Chair Weston. Here. Chair Atherney. Here. Approved. Public participation. We open the floor for any public participation. Seeing none, we're going to move on to new business. Because we have this presentation up on the board, I'm going to go around to the front so I can click. Okay. You're good. Okay. So this was what we came up with last, the last time we were ending our time with the board. So it was where we go from here. You've seen most of this, I'm going to breeze through it because there's some footage I want you to see. This was the sections of the river before we started. We had the $15 million to use, or the voters had elected to put into place. So we purchased from our plan list from Mission Road to Turnbull Bay, and this is the creek that you see in the photos. We were able to accomplish getting this nationally recognized historic site sign on the spot. We were able to add an additional conservation of 7.63 acres. That was the Turnbull Trace portion as our first purchase. We continued to purchase more south of the Holland Park at Otter Boulevard and that was also for north of Jungle Road. You see the little bridge there at Jungle Road. Partials on State Road 44 and Walker and other 10 acres were added. We're originally slotted for business use or now in conservation. An additional 10 acres at the base of Corbin Park Road and at Page and the Creek, and additional 10 acres were purchased there. Other parcels to the south are also being targeted for purchase under the conservation easement. One of those parcels we'll discuss later on. And then along came a hurricane. This is the flooding that was experienced in Corvon Park. Through the USDA's Emergency Water Management Program, we were able to get $1.6 million to remove a lot of the debris. And this is what it looked like in 2019. The flow was totally trapped. I don't know how to make this work. Do I hit this? There we go. So you can see through this section, Philip put together from our first swamp stomp in April of 2019, this was where we began. The creek had no flow in many other sections. This is the portion on page Avenue where the Pipe School Cross Reutility Commission. Eventually this will have to be addressed for opening full flow and that's what that area looks like now. It's amazing. There's still a lot of debris that's left. They're doing little rounds of pickup on that section. We went further south. We were walking our way through the woods this time. And again, a lot of the blockage that was just from pure hurricane damage. Trees falling that never got picked up. I was amazed when we got back there, and that's what that area looked like. So the further south we went, we were able to move forward with a lot of that section. Cleaning it up, and you see along the sides, if you can note, this is clay. I was surprised when I started seeing the side walls of this thing. These people, when they got here from the Turnbull colony, what a workout you had. To dig in this kind of clay, 15 feet wide and deep enough for a dented birth. Totally floors me. Notice those barnacles all on there. So you know the flow is got, is brackish water and with salt water in it. Let me move this a little faster through here. So you can see it's now opened in that area. As we went further down closer to the KWA and the campgrounds area, we also noted a lot of the damage in those sections in 2019. Again, now it looks brilliant. Now the gray water you see is, of course, from the Dredging Program. It isn't fully opened all the way to the 44 crossing. There's some small hill areas that still need to be addressed, but that's an amazing improvement. I was just excited to see that. Whoops, now what did I do? Okay. In this last section that I want to show you as we were, again, I messed up. I just want to go to the next slides. As we were talking at the last meeting, we were discussing different ways we could possibly increase the flow. These are aquatic openings and we requested for Ron to begin looking into applying for these grants that are available for opening these aquatic entrances. And they're an 80% 20%. So we only have to come up with 20% of the money to do it and they can be retrofitted in so that was part of our follow-up business when we get back to that note on our board the blank screens you see are for us to fill in later so we want to go over parts of the for a subcommittee if we're going to request a subcommittee be signed or if they want us to continue. The sign us the staff member to work with us so that we can find grants, city, plan goals for conservation land use, joining in with other entities. And I have some follow up news for that one, developing a maintenance plan. As we were writing back there, one of the biggest concerns I have was the density of the woods on both sides. This is a huge fire hazard. A lot of dead branches, a lot of dead trees, a bunch of dead undergrowth that has got to get out of there. If one fire breaks out, you'll never get back there to fix it. So as the commission makes this choice, I wanted to include this for them for having us continue recommendations for properties, build a partnership for passive park under conservation zone that we have put this property in. We're only allowed a passive park. That means we can't have toilets, we can't have buildings. We can't have all of that. But we can have benches and we can have pads and we can have clearing land, cleared areas for people to look through and see habitat and we can increase some of that new habitat coming back. So that's what's allowed with passive park usage. Continue our work with staff for that maintenance plan assist with other grants. I was looking through other grants and there are tons of them, but a lot of them may go away with this administration we don't know, but we can still apply for them to see if they give it to us, I mean rather than say yes than no. Land improvements for the invasives. That's with USDA. We already mentioned for them to continue into that partnership and go through that with them and then improvements of habitat. I went on the tour with Deering Park and speaking with them, there's a way to do it, to bring back the quail, to bring back species that we haven't had in those woods in a long time. And again, that improved that quite a good thing. So the next part of the footage I'm going to show you is from when we went from Mission Road, we actually got in at Sugar Milk Campground in a boat, and we toured all through up in there, and that's the map where we went through. So we actually end up going back in to where the pond is just to the right of that yellow area. And then this is one of the still pictures of that park where we were. But coming out of there, I mean, you see the undergrowth. You will see, I mean, this was a huge difference. Now the pond entrance off of the creek was not part of USDA money. We can't do anything about that. We can maybe help them or request to help. But right now, the people at this Sugarmill campgrounds are accepting the cut foliage, carrying it over to their shoreline and burning it on their fire pile. They have two permitted firebiles, which is fine. This is beautiful. As you get entertained by this, this is old Florida at its finest. This would make an excellent canoe trip as a passive park, a place where we can launch vessels. Again, I looked at both sides of this. The foliage you see on both sides is absolutely dense. We have to come up with some sort of a maintenance plan request for the city that can help them. Because like I said, fire is all it's going to take. One small fire because you still have all of those palm trees and all of that invasive species. Some of those trees will probably lose, may bring in another storm. It's possible we could put that into the maintenance plan that they get cut off and moved through. Right now this is part of the back of the K-O-A. Let me see if I can bring you forward a little bit. And then as they were getting these products stuck, they had two cranes that got buried in the December. It Christmas, one got sunk down. It was one of theirs. And then a brand new one came in to help with finishing it up, and it got sunk as well. So there's some work that that crew has to do to go back and fix all the land that they tore up trying to get these grains out. They were able to at least sheer off some of these shorelines as they were dredging so that they could come through here at 15 feet wide. a clay bottom which surprised me. I didn't think it was clay. But original history says that there were coquina rocks along both sides and then as people were building their houses they were stealing the coquina off of the creek. So that's why the walls began to collapse. But with clay you're going to have that erosion possibility. Speaking with USDA they also have programs to help with stuff like this. So does St. John's Water Management. And I haven't talked yet to Florida Wildlife Conservation. It's possible they may have some interest in this as well. But going through this, I mean, isn't this beautiful? What we were at six years ago to this is absolutely stunning to me. So what do you think? I know, it's beautiful. And it's deep, it's six feet deep. In some places it's only about four and a half feet deep, but again, that's because still have some sediment that's moving through. As soon as we can open that flow up further north, that's going to change. That may help because again, this is just one phase of this project, the South Phase. I call it the South Phase. There's a lot of mosquito-controlled ditches. That's what he's pointing at now. These are places where we need to get with the county or recommend for the city to get with the county. These mosquito control ditches were put in there so that when as the water rises the fish, the mosquito fish can get into those areas. Those meet the back of Corbin Park and they have water retention from people's associations. Hks' Cove is one of them, that feeds into these mosquito control ditches when their ponds overflow. So somebody in between would be mosquito control, but that has to go through the city to the county in order to get those cleaned out. You're going to let them dump in it, then somebody has pay for cleaning it out. And that's where we had to go. But there's four of those. Are those natural or are we skinned or controlled? No, no. These were all hand dug. But these were dug originally back in the early 40s, 50s. These were where the state gave money. Again, this is another spot that got torn up by that crane that was some brand new and too. I've got a bunch of the original documents from when they were digging those with the spats. Those would be helpful to have as a document to include with our recommendations for the city for mosquito control to get entered into this game because that's what's going to help the neighborhoods near Corbin Park for drainage as well as for the flow of that mosquito fish. It's going to have to be attributed to it. It also is wide enough to make for a fire break. That's another big key here and I'm focusing on that fire problem in my tour tour with during park That's one of their biggest concerns is how do you burn in an area like this? Well, you're too close to neighborhoods to do it in a large scale so it would have to be done in small scale or by hand I'm not sure where to go for that. I'm sure we could do some research and figure out where we go, but something's gotta be done. And you see the density on both sides of this creek. Is that land weed control? There's some of it that we do. I have a lot of the properties along this area that are already listed under conservation, resource corridor. So and on their deeds it says that it's for drainage. So we have access to it. Now that the canals open, we have full access. We can plop a barge in there and send a crew out on both sides 25 feet and clear it out. Again, it's something that we need to look into further to better make a recommendation to the city for that. Did that Bob agree to the mic? Oh, sorry. That way we can hear you. So as we're getting further north, we're gonna actually end up at those pipes, but I wanted to point out over here on your left hand side. That's the path that these guys have been using. They've been cutting a path right beside the creek on both sides so that they can access the Brazilian pepper. There were large patches of Brazilian pepper in a lot of this area. And with this, they were able to pull some of those. But you see, they're only cutting them. We're not killing them. So they're going to come back and probably very quickly and with a vengeance. So as a priority of what I think our team could do as a board is find these sources for the city to start applying and getting some funding out there. and also to include this in part of the budget for maintenance. Because if you added some of the properties that we've already bought, I mean you're looking at almost 60 acres. That's a lot of land to maintain. I mean that's quite a bit of land to maintain. Again, this is another spot where they came in and tried to get that second. This is where the second one was jammed. I'm going to push you back past it. I want you to see further down. This is where they drag in other trucks. That's on the K-O-A's campground site. I mean, not K-O-A. Sugar mills campground site. As we were going, they were clearing. And so here's what you see them doing. They're clearing out the Brazilian pepper and loading it onto this barge. And then they take the barge over to Sugar Mills property and then crane lifts it off and puts it in their burn pile. Oops, sorry. Let's see if I can get me back there. Further down when we get to the, I guess I just tap it, maybe you'll go play. Sorry, sorry for that. But at least now in pass where I need to be. So we're getting around corner now where we've left their parcel. This is part of the center portion of Corbin Park Road. So far, any questions? I would think the Brazilian pepper because of the oil would be a special fire hazard. It's one of those points we really need to push across to the city to understand the type of danger we're looking at. You've got houses very close to this and a fire with a good wind behind it is going to draw it and so there's a lot of personal property that can be lost in here. That's my big fear. You know with all of this foliage but look at the drop. So now we were actually in the creek at mid tide. When high tide comes in, it gets right about to the bottom of these palm trees that you see on each side. So with a really high tide or a moon tide, you're going to see a much more increased flow of water through these areas, And it really does. It will probably come up to that shoreline that you see. So we've got about a, we've noticed, I've been back there watching it. It's roughly about a foot and a half drop. It's really not much of a drop, but it's a drop at low tide. But it could be more. It just depends on what the moon is. I happen to have been back there watching it during the flat moon or a half moon, so it wasn't bad. So now we've rounded the corner. Those pipes you see going across the road are utility commission pipes. And the one you see at the surface of the water is a gas line. That got me concerned as well, because it's been sleeved already. That means it had some corrosion somewhere on it. Now let's talk about a fire hazard. That's a separate company that's not our utility company. I know. I know. We can worry about the water pipes that go across. On both sides, there's an 8 foot to 10 foot, I mean, an 8 inch, a 10 inch and a 12 inch. And then there's a 20 inch that goes below. That's the one you see that's at the base of the screen there. The gas line runs underneath it. So there's depth, but it's still pretty chewed up. So that part of the presentation is where I think this is more appropriate to start looking for these these areas. So I hope this has helped to kind of open your eyes to what we're looking at. That's great. Okay. I wanted to show you you know what we what we know. If we did a canoe run, would You have to portage around those pipes? That's going to be your stopping point. Yeah, you could come out and go around it. It's easy to come out and go around it. It's not bad, except that that banking is pretty severe. I mean, maybe. I say maybe. I'd have to go and look, well how would we get back up and down depending on the tide? I don't know what to think about that. But I mean that's going to be up to you guys helping me put this together. That's why I'm here. I need you guys to give me some insight. That was really good. Thank you. How would we access that if we wanted? Where is that? I'm a microphone. I need your microphone up. Where would we access that stretch of water if we wanted to look at it? K-O-A, not K-O-A, keep saying K-O-A. It's the Sugar Mill campgrounds. If you went to the office at Sugar Mill campgrounds and you asked Kyle, who's one of the owners, and I'll give you phone numbers. Kyle can take you back there. You can also ask if it'd be okay if you launched there a kayak. You can also, without even going into Sugar Mill, you could access this point where I'm standing there on those pipes. the base of the page where it meets from Corbin Park Road to turn east and go to the, it runs you right, it runs you right, sorry pardon me, I didn't do the right thing and shut off my phone. It runs right into the creek there, so, that would be your access point. Without having to ask anybody. Yeah. Is to just go straight through. I was quite amazed. I mean, but I think we need to kind of tons of trade on what we do about this fire hazard. Do we know who owns the property between the two parks? Returble Creek is? Yes. And it's a company. And if you'll pull up on your documents that we gave us for last time. I don't know if we've got, we gave us these maps. Remember these, this big chunk of all of these maps. We got this in August. So the parcels we're looking at that are connecting and that we haven't bought yet are the acreage that's in request now. That's the one that we got talking about last week. Our last two weeks ago. That's this 24 acres that butts up against the creek. We have a praisle being done on it. Yes, I remember that. So that's part of it. The next part you're looking for is from Page South. That's part of, with that waterway is right there, that pond. I'm referring to, as it comes up to Old Mission Road, between the two parks, between the Sugar Mill ruins and... That's all theirs. This is all the families. The family owns the family that owns Sugar Mill, owns the entire bottom quarter of it. They meet at Mission Road and go all the way to the other side of parcel number 46. That's the parcel where that big oblong pond is. That's all the family's property for Sugar Mill Campground. The original family parcel was this piece in the front, and then they just, that's part of the business, and then the rest of it is all camping area, and then the sides behind it, all the parcels on the other side of the creek are still up for grabs. One of them, number, I think it was number 45 on this map, is that's an a long piece, an oblong piece. That's at the base of DOSTER Drive. And I believe that came up at commission meeting was pulled off the agenda because we hadn't talked about it. It's not a big piece. It's 2.75 acres that they were willing to sell but the back end of that property is already listed under resource corridor. The front half is a low impact development housing residential but there's a lot of the property that's wet. I know my uncle, well it's my uncle's name now there's some property back there because our family had a like a 10 acre orange growth back between the two parks. There was access on a road but I'm not exactly sure where it was so that's why I was just curious. I have the listing. This was pretty complete with everything for our zoning and the map sections. That's the north half, hang on. If you're looking for the southern half, this one doesn't have the listing. I don't have the list. I didn't get those maps. Okay. I'm sure. It's a no point right now. I'm just curious. Okay. Question. So, I guess, either getting an option or being able to deal with some kind of environmental easement might be the best that we can do for the property that's not for sale. I agree. I mean, if they don't want to sell it, you're not going to force them to sell it to you. But I believe if we look at the maps that show who owns what, the zoning map, The zoning map indicates that a lot of this land is already under resource corridor because it's wet. And I'll pass this over to you guys so you can and take a look at it if it may brighten your eyes. So you'll see RC listed and RC A listed on a lot of the properties that are on that creek. RC of course resource corridor. Shane RC A is agriculture? Don't't know what's up in my head. Paul, yeah. I think I had it. That's the next thing I gotta talk to you guys about. Because the county has some of those parcels. It's under county jurisdiction, a lot of them. That's the B. County has some of them listed under a UMI designation. That means eight units per acre. But that's in the counties. And most of those are up closer to the shopping center. I don't see that designation. I know that the county has a designation for RCA. I don't think I have it now. I have the R4 for City for the cities Medium that's a medium density, but most of the ones on this map are under Resource Corridor. May I recognize you? Pardon me? Air A and also the airport. Could be. I don't think it is. I think it's, I'm not sure. I can find out though. Get with Robert Math and he knows everything. That man's brilliant. Yeah, if you want to just give me a copy of what you want to find, I'll do the research and get it back to you right away. Yeah, because what we need to do today as try and put together what we're going to tell the commission, what we're taking to commission. So I left two blank frames in here, but I can also remove frame number 20 on down that explains, you know, our recommendations. Looks like single-family residential. Oh, here it is. RSEA is, yes, it's urban single-family residential. R4A. Yeah, R4 is multi-family. RCA is resource corridor. I'm sorry. What you guys are doing with that. Do you want to address your questions? I have a list of questions. There's some redundancy here, but I'll go through it real quickly. And anything that you think is worthy of sharing with the commission, we could hold it out either before or during our workshop. How does the city of Nusselman-Abich define its commitment to stewardship of natural resources and wildlife habitat. Is that part of our charter? It should be, I think. Obviously, you all have a copy of this, so I'll just go through it. Do we have an up to date map that shows the location of all the properties that we've already purchased? This could be part of the workshop. A large map would be helpful here. And what are the predicted climate impacts on all of the properties that we've purchased? Can any of the terrible properties be used to deploy new store-mode and flood prevention systems such as retention ponds and canals. There's a type over there. Now, I think that we have a definition from our legal department that we really can't do anything, but maybe there would be a way to modify the bond issue so that while they're doing the storm water assessment, if there is an opportunity to add a retention pond or something that would enhance the storm water program on one of the properties that we purchased, it would be a shame not to be able to do that. Especially if it didn't really have an adverse effect on the property. It may be a positive effect. Can additional water treatment be done on the turn bowl lands that we purchased before the water flows into the Indian River, Lagoon and Spruce Creek, again, so that we were sending a better quality of water into the creek, into the river? How can Volusia forever land acquisition become part of the Turnbull acquisitions? What other grants are now available? You covered that, Donna. But good list of those for the workshop, I think, would be helpful to the commission to see how many different things we've already uncovered that are available. This is something that I think one of the commissioners brought up recently. Can a private nonprofit be set up to raise more funds for purchasing environmentally important properties? And especially for the maintenance of these properties. I had the pleasure of working with Doc Leaper on a number of different projects, but she was able to get attorneys to help put some of the organizations and nonprofits together related to Canaveral and ACA and things like that. And if we had a local attorney who was willing to work with the commission and the task force, we might be able to foster a new nonprofit organization that would go on hopefully in perpetuity to raise funds to acquire more property outside of the city having to do it and for maintenance of the properties. I think there are a lot of we we had over 70% people look for the bond I think those same people would be willing to contribute to something like that What types of low impact recreation can legally take place on the properties that we purchased? Yeah, well, and what's the legal definition of a passive park? We should have that in writing. Is there adequate parking for passive recreation? Eventually, when more properties acquired, can a canoe and kayak run be developed in the Turnbull Creek? Well, from what you showed us, it looked like there's a big opportunity for that. What would be necessary to create connected wildlife quarters along the creek? Can a neutral system be established? What additional properties and easements are necessary to complete the system? I think that's really important. If we go forward and as we go forward in how we put the new ranking together of what are the most crucial properties that we have to get, either easements or get the property themselves. What needs to be done to preserve and maintain the lands? We probably need a good list of, I think, Deering Park, I went on the tour as well, gave us a really good idea of all the different aspects of maintenance, so a really good list would be helpful for us. We can use that list to determine the kind of funding that we would need, and who would be designated to be in charge of taking care of it. Disactive management included control burns, and types of preventative maintenance. Can an ongoing process be established to eliminate invasive species from the properties? This is a lemonade, not a cut. Big, big difference there. Unfortunately, from what I was able to determine with Brazilian peppers to eradicate them, you need some pretty strong chemicals, so we'd have to use them pretty judiciously. What types of educational programs can be set up on the properties and who are the potential partners to run the programs for passive recreation, native plant identification, history, hiking and Bird Watching. My wife used to run one of those programs at Mead Garden in Winner Park. And it was just phenomenal that the school kids, that hundreds of school kids that would go through every year, was like the best thing that they did all year. They learned so much about the environment. Be wonderful if we could do the same here. What type of marketing should be done to publicize the success of the program and facilitate utilization of the properties? We sure have a great PR department here. I think the city deserves a lot of credit for what's been accomplished so far. Could a passive turnout off of a state road 44 by the creek? Could that be created like with signage or some kind of an opportunity to showcase the creek? I really don't know how that would work. I don't know how many cars could easily pull out safely or anything else, but it's. There might be room for a sign there beyond what's already there now. Glenn Storch suggested a method of protecting the during properties and perpetuity. Conservation lands can remain forever by layering its legal designation. This can be done by having three stewards by the creation of layered grants of conservation, easements for the properties to the three different parties. And Glenn went into detail on that. I don't need to go into detail here, but there's more about that. I think we're concerned about the perpetuity of the properties that have already been purchased. Anything that we can do to strengthen that would be worthy of consideration. Does the city need a certified environmentalist to manage these and other sensitive properties?. Many cities do. Are we big enough to justify that? I guess if that person was also writing grants, then that might be the justification right there. What is the funding source for protection and maintenance? I don't believe there is one right now. Should the city consider a special taxing district for conservation lands, the Chernobyl properties and other wetlands that would pay for the annual inspections, maintenance, and upkeep of the conservation areas such as the removal of invasive species? Is there adequate access to the turnable properties for utilities, police, fire, EMS, and general maintenance? Will you talk about some of the access around the ditches and things like that? And what are the laws regarding camping in the turnable properties? Good questions. Wow, that's a loaded gun. Yeah, well, so-and-a-sakes, huh? It's a loaded gun. So in a six huh? That's a loaded gun. Do you want to start addressing them? Sure. Do you want to start playing with some of these? I'll look I'll start with the first one as part of our charter, you know, we're supposed to make these recommendations, so possibly a recommendation for continued stewardship by our board would be a suggestion I would like to make. And as for up to date maps, that's an easy thing to come by. We can get you those. I think that would be helpful for the commission if we have a lay amount on a table or something like that. Where I'd have an updated map. Yeah, a couple of maps probably. The initial ranking and then the property that we've already purchased. Add that to the presentation. Yeah, because out of that, we'll need to come up with a new ranking for purchasing property and for easements. Mm-hmm. Um... Um, can I tell everybody's be... with a new ranking for purchasing property and for easements. Can the terrible properties be employed by storm water? I'm not sure about the storm water question. I think the storm water question would have to be part of the conversation with the city. Yeah, if any of the property that we've already purchased is valuable in terms of adding any kind of storm water retention or things like that, what would we have to do to legally change the bond so that we could actually use the property? Well, for storm water. I think the new storm water management plan plans going to address a lot of the creek sections. I haven't seen that. I mean, making physical improvements for retention ponds and things of that nature. Yeah, I don't know. That'd be a question for legal. Yeah, that would. We'd have to address legal. But I mean, I'm so impressed with what I've read so far about what you're doing with stormwater. If there was something we could do on these properties to help that that would be worth checking out. Treatments I'm not sure. I mean I'm not sure what how much more treatments you're going to be able to do there of land coming off because DOT wins and they've got a lot of water going in from 44 so I don't know how that's going to blow. I don't need them. Let's set that one aside. I put parentheses around it. Land forever, that Volusia land forever. They buy it. I'll tell you what I got going on. I talked to a guy named Daniel Daniel, and I'll tell you his last name. I'm meeting with him next week. and he's with the Echo Grant. He manages the Echo Grant money. And Echo, I mean, this is right up there out there. So I'm taking in the pictures and this to show him about what we've got. And Echo money actually can qualify to the tune of, I think he said 600,000 or more. If it's a big project even more, which would help with that 2080 thing for the aquatic opening, that would be the big part of the project and then the other part of the project would be getting that forestry down. This could be the first grant and we could follow up in a couple of years with another grant so that the proper is could actually be used. We'll put that in as a possible recommendation for our committee to pursue. I've just got a $600,000 grant. New Samarno did too. Didn't, isn't Rob working on one? Mm-hmm. I don't know. You're talking about for the stormwater? With with with echo grants. Rob Salazar. Yes. I'm not sure if his shop is working on one or not. I believe he's one of them. Rob Salazar Park and Recreations working on an echo grant now up to 600,000 standard and bigger projects are other grants are available to help. So we'll have to get with him to find out more of what he's using, but I'll find that out anyway when I meet with them next week. Yeah I went ahead and made an appointment for Thursday morning. So I'll have more information there so I can address that a little differently, at least with some more things. The partnership question, the nonprofits and the partnerships, when I was out there at the Deering Park, Robbie mentioned that they may be able to help us. I'm not sure in what capacity it would be something for us to pursue. If the commission deems us to continue then that would be one of those requests that we could pursue. He told me the same thing in detail. In many different ways that they could help us. And if I'm not mistaken and I have a question out for Glenn Storch, I think they also own property on the term of Greek. I think it's under blossom corporation. Loss of corporations, that's on it. It's at the base of page. It's the section at the base of page on the other side of the Greek. I know I'm going to have to get with, I remembered it being mentioned that they had some interest back there. I'm not sure, but I'll pursue answer now. But yes, that conservation easement layering goes with that question. I explained to you about passive parts. Yeah, I just wanted to see a legal definition. I think that would be very, very helpful. So we know what not to pursue. Okay. I believe I had that would be very, very helpful. So we know what not to pursue. Okay. I believe I had that. I wanna look again while you get the rest of the questions. Passing the book. Now I'm passing it to you now. Y'all take it. Actually, we don't have to have it now, but we should have it for the workshop. Do we know when the workshops? Well, yeah, they have the workshop at the end of the month. 25th. Is that? Sharon, is there workshop next week? It's a week after. Thank you. All right, commissions workshop. Here's the workshop on the 25th regarding Deering Park. Yeah. Are we at that commission meeting? No. You're on the regular commission meeting under presentations. Oh, okay. Is that the 25th? Yes. 630. I can't go to that. Well, you can watch it online. This is the declaration for what I got out of Robert Mayth and with respect to the conservations. And this was written on two of the parcels that we already bought. That the DDRC is to prevent adverse impacts to natural resources, fish, and wildlife and wetlands in the purchase of all of this. And that's the only thing I see it referencing. OK, I put it on the list. OK, thanks. The passive parks. I'll continue to read through it. Okay. Is that what you're talking about? What type of low impact recreation can legally take place? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um. And what kind of parking could support the, I mean, could we even have parking on any of this park? On page we do. We bought that 10 acres at the base of page It's plenty of parking down there Good so yeah, and that's gonna be your access point to go down there perfect perfect parking Now look at the north side You know we own the city just we bought the turntable trace parcel there There's actually that takes you all the way up to the inlet. Yeah. Good. So yeah I'd say there's an ample parking so scratch that one off. Okay. And when you talk about parking too we're talking about not a parking lot per state paved but a shell you know something graded great in the purpose. Yeah, that's, yes, it's still back to the low impact. OK. For canus. Yeah, that was a bit of your two spots for the canus. To connecting what would be necessary to create a connected wildlife court or along the creek. Well, we pretty much have got that if we can get, if we could get the Ellison Anchors Proct. That connects the north jungle road all the way to Mission Road. Well, at least a page, part of the page. So that would be your connecting piece. Trail systems. Yeah, there can be trail systems as you see. They've made half a dozen of them along the shorelines. The other one I was going to address. The new rankings. You didn't get this big folded map thing. You didn't get that. No. Okay. So we need to get you a copy of that. I'll give you yours back. Yeah, you need to get a copy of that. Because you did come in after the first couple of years. Yes. And this has got everything you need on it. Except the property owners. Who owns what parts? I did see my aunt and uncle. You did? So they are there? Yeah, it's on the southern, they said the southern mavic, 49 and 50. Parts was 49 and 50. OK, 49. 49 and 50. I see it. It's a red mark one. So yeah, it's on the highest priority. Talk to them. We want it. We want it. Okay. All right. So you need to get you a copy of that. And then the new ranking, that can be part of our request to them for sticking around. Yeah. Continue to continue ranking. New trail system, if and when that happens, especially if you make it wide enough, almost like a fire trail, that's beneficial in a number of ways, not only for people that want to use it as recreation, but if there is an emergency or maintenance, you can get something back there to maintain that property a lot easier with an established trail. Is that under that? I was just going back to the new trail system, can a new trail system be established? Okay. With mosquito control ditches, we have one. I mean, I'm just thinking of a land trail or you know maybe a hiking trail Just as a talking point to the city commission as a benefit to do that as a recommendation Because not only would it be for recreation? There's also some some good purposes to have a well-established trail for access Especially if if you allow them to run it and maintain it. If there's canoeing and kayaking for safety too, it would be great to have a trail. That's something I've always wanted to do. It's to a trail from jungle to pioneer. Those woods are beautiful. They are. It would be a great, hike for people. It's short one too. Yeah. We're fire, possible ambulance. Fire, yeah. EMT and maintenance. Okay, I'm starting now. Okay. Yeah, the new ranking map. Okay. Control burns. Not possible. I discussed that array with them. It's just too close to houses. Yeah. It's just too much. And you wouldn't be able to do it in dwell. Well, that means the maintenance has to get the vertical material out. Yeah. I'm going to start active maintenance because we really need to, I would say that's an absolute priority. I mean, we own it. We're going to let it grow over. And how many more times are we going to have to wait for a storm to clear the land or to flood us that we got to go back to USDA? Robbie's from Deerin said that if we acquire fairly significant size parcel that the control burning goes back to nature and it actually stimulates the land. I don't know that we own anything big enough to do that. No, well, 24 acres would be close, but because that's one big parcel, that's that one right behind the shop. That would be a big enough chunk that you still have, you know, how do you get them back there? You know, what's the access from the pond? I mean, for I'm not sure. I'm doing it on Christmas when publics is closed, right? That would be something to consider. The invasive species thing, USDA, I would say, recommend with as a priority for the city to continue a dialogue with USDA. What does water, uh, uh, Florida, uh, fish and wildlife have to do? Do they have anything that might come up to the mic? My connections are all with federal, US Fish and Wildlife. Um, and they do have management programs for establishing waterways that have been disturbed by man-made stuff. All of my pursuits towards that have been blocked because they pretty much hold those for Native Americans. I was still pushing and trying, but I'd hit kind of a wall with that. I don't know a lot of people with the state, but I know people who do, and I can find out at things other programs. That and also state runs the fire program typically. So I was very involved in the fire program with U.S. Fish and Wildlife, and I'm sure I still have contacts I can reach out to with the state and see if there are any programs or restrictions. My concern with a lot of that is they're going to end up wanting to cut fire line Which may solve two problems at once if they do we get a trail and and they cut a fire line But that they would have to have a fire line around that in order to even consider doing anything But I can talk to people I know who are Recently active in the fire program and see if they have contacts with the state to find out That's great. Thank you. Yeah, That would be another reason to keep us around. I'm addressing this, the public relations part, I would say Phillips or man. Yeah. Yeah, I'd leave that to him. I'll put it in as a possible priority too. So I'm starring that one. the passive turnout of signage can be added, yes, because it's a passive park. We can have signs. You can have little billboards up there explaining the wild life and explaining the histories. Things like that are part of the passive park thing. Glen Storch's suggestion, I'm gonna make that as another, I'm gonna put as a number one priority, folks. We got to find a way to protect this stuff from ever getting sold off. And to fund the maintenance. And to fund the maintenance. So there's a number one priority. And then. Did we address some, I might have missed it. What type of education programs can be set up? Did we talk about that? I think I might have skipped that one. I just as a thought, Louise Chapman, she's ahead of the science department for the Flusche County Schools. She developed Spruce Creek Park up there by the Bridges Rose Bay. Might a good resource to even get a local high school teachers involved in an education program out there and possibly developing some of that land into a park. She did it, it's Bruce Creek. I've also reached out to Chad at Marine Discovery Center and Chad would like me to have a presentation for his board that they believe that it might be up their alley as well, that they get to use it and have something there. They have one at Saxon. There's a place that they use at Saxon and that would be about the same kind of thing. So you know my brain goes to is something like the Friends of Canaveral. We start a group of friends of Dr. Bulkery, where they can go. Volunteers, there's a ton of people around here that will volunteer for that kind of stuff. And then we have Varmal Education, Maintenance, and Cheap labor. I was at mainland high school when Louis Chapman started developing the park and we would do pepper busting days where we'd have volunteers go out to the park and remove Brazilian peppers. Which is great and that's a good experience in general. And Donald will have us out there all dressing up as the late 17, 80s. Before we all were talking about the Brazilian pepper stuff and there's garland three and garland four, the chemicals that can be used around the water. One is a basil treatment so it doesn't spray in the water and it's the go-to for everybody and it's an easy go-in and just you can even spray it and then harvest, you know, thin clear the trees afterwards. One person in but it's again that's something I don't know legally whether you can have volunteers do that or not they probably have to be certified but yeah it's a good system and it's environmentally friendly. And so that would be just cutting them down. Yeah, that would be right. Okay. Anything else on that next page you want to, did I miss anything else on the first page that you want to discuss? About the second page. Anything in there. I noticed you mentioned on that, and finish up that question on the second page, anything in there. I noticed you mentioned on that, finish of that question on the first page, bottom of the first page. For during part conservation de-esments with St. John's Water Management, St. John's Water Management will help clean it if they own it. Remember that last presentation I did about them? They're not so helpful to just jump in. Ford Audubon also cost this money. Remember Glenn said, Blue Shican, So that last presentation I did about them, they're not so helpful to just jump in. Florida, Audubon also cost us money. Remember Glenn said, Boulouche County, I'm aiming at eco grants from them. They really don't have much else and mosquito control from them. Because when a mosquito control does have an interest back there, it's just matter of Boulouche County Council issuing the money to Boulouche the ski to control to do the work. So that addressed you there. Certified environmentalist, I'm not sure about the certified environmentalist. Used to be Liz Yancy was our environmentalist. She, Liz has an arborist. She is an arborist. I think she's totally retired now, but it's possible that one of the state agencies may have a vision of forestry possibly. Get step in and consult. I think. And then that's the protection and funding. So let's rank some of these. First priority is to keeping us around if they want to, is that one, we need to re-priority list of what we want to attack next. I agree. So that I put down as number one. I looked at number two and that's for that control burns I thought safety first. So the control burns I put as number two. The third one is the type of education programs that can be pursued with the high school and marine discovery center. And then number for the boards education programs. Number two is the active management. Active management control burns. Number two. Then number three I have as the educational programs. I think pain for the maintenance on an ongoing basis is critical. Yeah, that's USDA and and pursue extra additional from USDA and other government agencies. And then number four, I have the Glenn Stewart suggestion to do the conservation easement with layers and have us pursue partnerships. Yeah, have us pursue partnerships. Okay. And then on the back page, should the city consider a special taxing district is number five You all have to decide I Know that during park has is Establishing a special taxing district to help with their maintenance program if I find out that they actually do have an interest on our creek We may pursue them to do that, but that would be something the commission would have to direct us to research. 20 years from now assuming Deering goes well. They'll be a tremendous amount of public access to environmentally important acreage. A lot. The city should probably be marketing itself as an environmental educational recreational area. And with that, with the size of that amount of property and opportunities for people and to and recreational tourism, I would think that certainly over the next 10 or so years, we need to be doing everything we can to work with Deering and probably to establish some type of department, environmental department that can really start to not only manage the property, but can get the most out of the property. Just from a marketing alone, I think that the typical multipliers on attracting that type of demographic are very, very high over between 4% and 5% above other types of businesses. And they have a very low level of service requirements, and they're just a really positive people stay for multiple nights, typically. And so I think that in 10 years from now, we probably are going to need to have very type partnership with Deering, people like Robbie, and really leverage that type of marketing. So I think we have a tremendous opportunity here. I'm really pleased, especially with you and everything you've accomplished in the whole group of us, and working closely with city staff. We've really accomplished a lot over a few last few years. This is a pretty big deal. I don't know how many other cities have done stuff like this. I think that we've... Before had this kind of resource to work on, it's just the noise. The whole year got lost just because we couldn't get permits. It just annoys me. And that's the, was part of the issue now with the term will make bridge issues dredge. The first company didn't want to deal with the permitting. So they have it back out to bid for another hell. But yeah. She can't handle it. Sorry, could you not hear me? What I'm understanding is that the issue with the bridge, the original company that we had talked to about getting a bid on dredging there by the bridge in the trussles was the permitting issues. So they had backed out. So I'm under the impression right now we've got another company trying to bid it. And we'll see what happens there. I mean, you don't unplug the plug. It's not going to go anywhere. Yep. And I'm still in with a bunch of dredge companies and people that do dredging. So I'll talk to Kyle. But if we need to, I can get, you know, some other people to get involved. Well, that's a big part of our stormwater improvement system too. Yeah. Yeah. And this, like right now, we're dealing with super low tides on the creek and it's literally almost dry between the bridges. It's unbelievable. It is. It is dry under the bridges. Can I ask something real quick also? Of course. At one point, there was discussion about the land. I believe it's owned by the backs there on Williams Road, that big fields and pastures on the north. Way back, it had been determined that that was part of, could be part of our, our deal because there are creeks that feed, turmbled creek that feed into it. And I had it back then been talking with the North Florida land trust about it. They were into it. They were talking with them about the property. And that kind of died when they left. Are you referring, I'm just stepping in. Sure. You're referring to this Northern portion? Who is Williams? Oh, on the Williams. This is Terrible Creek. It would be this here. Oh, this side? This one. OK. It may feed in somewhere along this Greek. It does right. It feeds through here. OK. It wasn't part of our target zone. This section is part of the target zone. Anything along the main creek? Long the main creek. These filtering branches that went out were later developed. Can they be part of the stormwater management plan, yes? Because are you familiar with that? That land there are Williams, all those fields? There's a lot of fields along Williams Road, which is owned by the backs at backs at one point we were trying to work with North Florida land trust to see about acquiring it. And I think the ideal thing if it could be done is they do parks now that are designed to absorb water, water. And the Riverside Conservancy Group, they are met with them about one of these. And something like that along there could be done that, right now the issue is a lot of the issue, at least where I am, is water coming from the Sugar Mill area from all the new developments. And it's coming from the west to the creek and to everything where that area there could be utilized to catch a lot of the water. I think they're going to be looking at that with storm water management plan. I can't be sure of it, but that would be something they would have to go, I think, through them. Is it to the end? Yeah, because our target for our bond issue is anything along the Turnbull Creek where there was large amounts of development or could be. Now a lot of parts on the Creek are already zone resource corridor. So there was a much like there's this big sections within the county of the north section of the Turnbull Creek that are already designated RSE and agriculture and some of the multifamilies that are already established for their south, but it's all conservation, easement areas all the way through. CACA, and then the side pieces are residential. So our priorities were placed on the ones where development would cause the issue, the problems. And so that took everything here by Jungle Road. Say Road 44, the Jungle Road portion, this was the biggest parcel we bought right on the Greek going right through it. That's the Turnbull that's all term both trails. That's all term both trails. That's us already. So he already has this. There's jungle road. And adjacent to that, it's really worth driving around up through there. It's pretty fascinating. Brian and I, Brian Fields, when we first got started, we walked and drove all through that area. I mean, the potential is amazing. A lot of it can stay for our land as long as we have easements. As long as the city doesn't change any of those absolutely. Zonings and leaves the zonings where they are. That would, I mean, yes. So then next place was we concentrated here on the business around the openings of the creek. And this was already resource corridor again, all the way down to most sections in here. And then this was the parcels we're trying to nap. Anything that's along, like this piece, this is the Ellison Acres parcel between Mission. Road, or between St. Road 44 and Jungle. This would be the connecting piece to get you to the Turnbull Trace parcel. So then you could launch either there or up in the front half and then go all the way up to the inlet. Where I was talking about hiking the trails here, this stretch. Yeah, yeah, that's already up. That'ss and yeah, that's already been bought as term what was called the term bull trace property So it we're safe there. Yeah, no, I was just talking about for public use as a passive recreational park Yes So let's look at our priorities and see if we've kind of got it in an order. So I'm preparing this correctly. We agree on these priorities to go on the list so that I can tell the city, you know, here's what we can continue to do for reprioritize the list of vacant property still remaining. Second would be work at an aggressive active management plan for the parcels through various resources. The third one would be an educational program pursue environmental interests for educational program as a passive park. The fourth would be develop partnerships for conservation easements as layered between the city and these entities. And then five was consider opportunities for a taxing district to help with financing. And maintenance. And maintenance. Financing maintenance. Does anybody have anything you want me to add to this list? I'll explain number two again. The second one. The second priority. Halfway down the list it says does active management include the control burn. And I just took pursuant management, land management program. If we continue after this next commission workshop or presentation, I guess it's more of a presentation. I think that probably getting an update on stormwater because it's pretty far along would be really, really helpful. There are places that we overlap and can help each other. So that may be something to pursue after the commission meeting. It's helpful with future stormwater planning. That can make a big difference for how the creek runs. And the tributaries. That's where I think the aquatic opening would help pursuing that aquatic opening. Because that's a, I mean, when you get to jungle road, that's, you get a, that's just so out of date. It's just not capable of handling again. Anybody else got some more input to that? It is. It really is. Okay. So as far as the presentation I show to you, the two blanks, the 17 and 18, the two slides, 17 and 18, they will go after the rolling video of us going down the creek and that will list these five opportunities for our group. If the commission chooses to continue our stay as a term of Creek Preservation Board. You guys agree with that? Yes. Do I need to get a motion? Okay, because it's a workshop. Okay, so I'll put those together. Now I have a question. Can I put, output, fill those slots, complete that presentation, send it to you, and then send it to them or not? If you do the presentation, send it to me, and then we can send it to you. And then you can send it out to them. And then that same presentation would go in the packet for the commission to see. I would have to send it to them separately. The agenda publishes for today for the 25th. It does. So then can you just take the one that I have and then I'll just hold up the slides. 17 and 18. I you can take with what I got that's fine you guys agree to take what I got yeah okay so if it's published in a day this will go in it yes it's in that to me today I can put in an agenda to publish to for the commission in the residents today okay I got a tech guy in here who can do that for you. Because Donna don't know. Awesome. What a role this has been, huh? Oh, I couldn't have done it without you guys. I still can't do it without you guys. You did a lot. All right, Any other business you wanted to go over? Let's look at one last thing on the agenda. We did this discussion. The real estate purchases. I don't know that we have any updates on those purchases. That would be the parcel that was shown to us last meeting of the 24.5 acres on page. I don't believe that praise will has come in yet. The other parcel that was being appraised was the Ellison acres, Linda Mittens property. That's the eight acres that connects jungle road to mission. I mean, Jungle Road to State Road 44. That's also being appraised and the other parcel was the one that was presented to the City Commission or it was pulled off the agenda for the City Commission for the 2.75 acres at the base of Doster Drive and Doster in Page. If you didn't have that information or you didn't know about that parcel, it was originally, it's still on the deeds. It's part of that recreational resource corridor. And then the other part of it, it's half and half. Part of it is appraised at, well, they appraised it and shocked me. They appraised this thing out of two different appraised offices, that 2.75 acres, at 149,000. And the other one came in at 120,000. And it's on the tax roll at $2,400. And half of it's a resource corridor. I don't think they're asking around $154. Now I think that's true. Yeah, that's, I'm sorry, I have a problem with that one. I have a real problem with that one. I'll take your resource corridor and we'll put that in easement. That's what I'll tell you. Take the rest of the dude you want to do. I'm sorry. That was at the back of my brother in law's land. We're here forever. Your family's here forever. I played back there. It was horrible. The ski was everywhere. I don't know why in the world they'd pay two grand for it. Let alone, you know, 150 grand. That just didn't make sense to me. But that's y'all can say what you want to say, though. Those are the three that are in the book that we're to come back to, or at least to talk about We're okay with moving forward. Yep. Yeah. All of okay with moving forward. All right I if there's no other business is anyone have any staff reports we need to know about nope Seeing no does anybody have anything else to add to today's meeting None seeing none I bring this meeting meeting to adjourn at 416.