Well, good morning, everyone, and welcome to the public safety work session of Monday, March 3, 2025. Today, we actually have two topics with several little topics in between here on the agenda, which are the FY26 capital budgets and amendments to the FY2530 CIP for the police. going to gonna have the ONI, discuss ONI satellite police station, the six district police station, Outdoor Firearms Training Center, Public Safety Communication Center, Phase II Electrical Distribution and HVAC upgrades. And then the second part is the briefing on the police holiday traffic safety task force and impaired driving. As we begin, I'd like to thank Ms. Susan Farag for preparing the staff report for all the topics. And for once again, an always assembling on most informative packet for us. And Councilmember Mink is here virtually. There she is, I think is the right way to say that is the right way to say that is the right way to say that is the right way to say that is the right way to say that is the right way to say that is the right way to say that is the right way to say that is the right way to say that is the I did have a doubt that the red part of the agenda. I didn't get any progress. Darren Frank, this is the chief. I'm going to make an announcement. And Susan Farag, Council Staff, happy to walk you through the four projects. Right. And what I'm going to suggest is as we go through these projects that we discuss whether rather than come back at the end. So go ahead, please. Thank you, Mrs. Just a housekeeping matter because we are in a different room. I realized red doesn't mean it's on down here. So you have to hit the button to make it green before you talk. And they also want us to cut it off each time, which I forget to do. So anyhow. Yes, yes, we were told earlier this morning they were able to fix that feedback problem. So, yep, so fingers crossed. A little on there. Exactly. Yep. Good morning, everyone. There are four projects for review today listed on the front of your packet. I did want to note that there was some public testimony received during the public hearings on this. It was for the Alny satellite police station. Three people testified in support of that station none testified against. One item of written testimony was submitted and that's been included in your packet for your information. The first project up is the six district police station. Costs for this are not changing. It's been in the CIP all of this century. The project costs are remaining the same at about 38 million dollars. All those spending has been accelerated in FY 24. The station is expected to be completed this summer. I'd love to turn it over to DGS and police to give you a specific update on when they expect that to open. Once again, David Dice Director, Department of General Services, the 6th District Police Station is nearing completion. I took a walk through there just a week and a half ago. It is an amazing facility. the most modern of our stations it will be a net zero police station which means that it will generate all of the power it consumes which is a first up for for our police stations it is gone very works gone very well and we expect to have a ribbon cutting in June. Really no exceptions to note. It's weathered storms well. The biggest challenges we've had are challenges we've experienced with other projects is getting generators and things like that. Supply chain delays still cripple the industry. But the last rooftop transformer was delivered a week ago and set in place. So now it's just the final stages. So thank you. Look forward to seeing you there. Thank you. I actually drive past it every day to come here. And it is amazing to me that there is times that you don't see anybody working and the next day It's something else has been done. I always tell my wife. I think it's done by elves at night But but it's it's amazing. It seems that there are one time and and it seems that that we're gonna get there So congratulations on that until we do the ribbon cutting we haven't done it, but any questions on this one? We're good. We're good. Thank you. Next, Miss for second one is the only satellite police station This was a new project back in the FY 2328 CIP the plan facility will serve the fourth district and be supported by state aid The project initially included a hundred thousand dollars in FY 24 to fund a program of requirements which according to DGS has been completed and they will start the design process shortly. In January 2015, this year we received a supplemental appropriation to the FY25 capital budget and an amendment to this FY25 30 CIP and the amount of $1,000,000. $75,000. That reflects grants that were received through the state for acquisition, planning, design, construction, repair, and more. The amendment reflects adding this $1,750,000 in state aid, recommending approval as submitted. I just wanted to thank Director Dice and Greg Asant and all the folks who've been involved with this project and the many layers and many logistical things that have gone on with this and for being good partners in trying to move the ball forward. So I really appreciate everything that you've done and I know this is really important to my community in my district. Thank you. The next is the Public Safety Communication Center Phase 2 and this is electrical distribution and HVAC upgrades. Total project costs do not change. Design, the project costs are, however extended into FY27 and FY 28. Design began in March 2022 and as approximately 25% of all work has been done construction is scheduled to be completed in the fall of 26. There had been a significant supplemental appropriation back in the fall which had increased costs by about five million and part of that included a shift of savings from the Clarksburg Fire Station. So even though it doesn't exactly match last year, you've already looked at the supplemental appropriation for this and again recommending approval as submitted. And last but not least is the outdoor fire arms training center. This project was originally included in the FY07 to 12 CIP with similar upgrades and improvements. It's undergone a lot of changes in recommended program requirements for the last change went FY21 to 26. The project was revised to include an expansion of the rifle range and an enlargement of the pistol range. It would also require earth and protection berms on both sides and at the end of the rifle range to be increased and refurbished. The rifle range would be widened to create more lanes and the pistol range would be lengthened from 25 to 75 yards. Additionally, the project called for providing a bunker and open air pavilion for weapons cleaning and providing a new explosive bunker for 86,000. Most of those total project costs, not including the weapons cleaning area and explosive bunker, could be attributed to range expansions and much of the cost is site work and base infrastructure costs such as storm water management. The proposed amendment to this is changing is basically scheduling the entire project outside of the six-year CIP. We had an extensive discussion on this project last year during the full CIP and I had recommended no delays. I'm recommending that again. I'm recommending that this amendment not be accepted or approved. And I have concerns as well. I think we also have to be realistic about the money we do and the money we don't have. Is there an alternative to what we can be doing while we're trying to do something here? I mean, we're talking about training. Is there any other way we can go about this? So again, Darron Frank is this chief, my grandma came to the police. So we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, police. So we have adjusted again as we've discussed before we have with our new public safety training academy, newer, I apologize. We do have the ranges. We do have the ranges there. We do have partnerships with other agencies. We can still use the outdoor range. What we'd like to continue moving forward on is getting a program of requirements for the outdoor range that encompasses all of our needs, which number one is expanding the current outdoor range for the amount of training that we do with us and our partners. But then also we have some needs for our officers as far as modern training venues. One of them is called a, it's basically a warehouse where we can move around walls, create different environments dynamically for these officers to train in, both for patrol officers and for our SWOT or even our special event response team. So, you know, while the delay is not great, we understand, but what we do want to accomplish in there is, as we go towards that goal of updating the range, do something really special out there, get it really modernized for what we need to do in this day and age. Well, that require supplemental, how do we have the money to do the improvements? I think, both as it's extended out, the money is being extended out there as far as doing a program or requirements, I know that we're opening up the full CIP for this next year. And we want to have some discussions because there are some things that have changed about our needs. Obviously, Jones's first responder has been excelling. We have our real-time crime center. We have some other needs. We have ACC needs along with that. So I think there's a lot of different groups with some great ideas and perhaps this next CIP. We have a bigger discussion on how to pivot over the future for for public safety facilities. I don't know the, I would like to put like an asterisk next to this and said that this has got to be the last year that we keep doing this. I don't know that it may matter because next year it becomes another year, but I think we need to promise ourselves, I mean, we're the enemy in this. We need to promise ourselves how we're going to correct this. So how much is required to do an updated program of requirements in FY26? Typically, programs of requirement are around $100,000. So if go ahead. I, I get a couple questions. But one, it seems to be that if there's need to go back and have some bigger, broader discussions and do a new program of requirements that we should fund 100,000-ish to do that so that you all can do that. And then for the FY full CIP we would in theory by then have a program of requirements completed. Would that be correct Mr. Dice? Sure, there's a lot of programs of programs of requirements under work, but we could add that to the list and and of portion that work out. I do think it's appropriate to have this and because this project's been on the books for so long that whatever we may have done back in the day is... Dale. Yes. Good work. Yeah. ...and adequate and proud to be a person. So it's certainly appropriate to do and would also give us a better grip on what the projected cost would be. You can't really come up with a reliable estimate without a good program or requirements. So that's important to have. Yes, Rachel, so I'm going with the Office of Management. But I did just want to say that moving into the full CIP, the work to start considering projects for inclusion starts as early as May. Right. So, and DGS and the departments need quite a lot of time to start planning in terms of allocations so that everything can fit in in the fall. So, and the other thing to keep in mind is that programs of requirements need to be funded with cash rather than debt. So, it's something that would compete in the operating budget just to give you an idea of timeline. Okay, thank you. My other question is, you know, we've had, this is now my third time talking about this range at budget. Not as many times as my colleague here has had this conversation. Would you take your car to get service and they tell you, you know, your tire tread measures a certain amount and you could get it fixed this time, you could come back next time, you might be okay. I kind of feel like we're like that with this situation and my question is at what point do you surpass in a safety level. Like where are we in that? Are we getting threadbare on the tread? Or are we still in a position where we're going to be okay for a little bit of time? I don't know the answer to that. And you all are in the best position to answer that. Right now, we don't have any indication that we're threadbare right there. And obviously Obviously there's efficiencies that we don't have that we would like. I do think we do need to do that assessment again and have our folks take a look at the range and advise us. We're not aware of anything right now. But it would be worthwhile to see if with our staff out there, it gives us a timeline on when we need to change those tires. Yeah, so my position would be and thank you, Miss Silverman, for your comments, that an understanding that that's an operating budget issue, not a capital budget issue, but that is in the totality of money expended. money that would be well spent to do a new program of requirements so that we are adapting to the changed needs since the old one is stale, and then we'll have a clearer picture of what actually needs to be done in order to bring us to where we need to be for the department. Is that accurate everybody? Okay, all right, thank you. Having said that, so does that mean that we would leave it the way it is now? And then by may or whatever the right time frame is that we would get some update as to what we are and aren't doing. I can go back and talk to OMB DGS and the police between now and you can either bring it back as another public safety work session, possibly with the operating budget. No final decisions made on this till May. So I think go back and talk to them and see what appropriate financing and funding might look like. I'm comfortable here. Let me add if I can. Yeah, go ahead. I don't want to I want to manage expectations having a data program requirements by May. No understand whatever the right time frame is. We know that that it's not working the way we're doing it. We just need to do something that we can get there. And I'm looking at you, Councilmember Mank, are you okay with that? Yeah. I just wanted to clarify it. So it's that I thought that we were that we're going to need to speak up We going to need to raise your voice a little bit here. All right. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Um, my understanding that was that we were discussing. accepting the delay in terms of construction and all that moving the project out in order to allow for time to Do to conduct a new POR Is that not is that accurate or not accurate? The way the recommended change was sent across the street is it was delayed outside the six-year CIP schedule due to fiscal constraints. So, is there a consideration to accept most of that, except to include within the CIP a little bit of funding, I think, Councilor Murleukis of like 100K or something. I don't know what it's, what's typical here, but to conduct a new POR within this CIP and then look in the next one for, you know, to put the whole program back in. It was my understanding that we, because the 100 K can't come out of capital funding. That's part of the challenge. So we don't need to make a decision on this particular item today. Correct. We can hold on this as it sits in the CIP as proposed presently. So we're going hold on that and we're gonna have a subsequent discussion once everybody who's here today has had an opportunity to go back and get all the information collected and a reasonable time frame and a better estimate of cost on the program of requirement and have a discussion about that at a subsequent public safety session. And then we'll deal with the decision then. Okay, so we're talking about it. What would the cost be of doing a whole new POR? As opposed to what would the cost be of doing like an updated project? So it, yeah, according to Director Dice, they'd have to start over because the program of requirements that presently exists for this project is so old. Right, like 27 as to not necessarily be useful in multiple respects. Yeah, I understand. I just want to make sure that I understand what we're talking about. But like, I don't think that we're going to fit more into this CIP now, but I do, but I certainly understand the need to get an updated POR on this. So if we're returning just to think about how to fit in the costs and the timeline for doing, you know, for updating that within the CIP, this would, which would delay the construction obviously of this project. But we're going to discuss that the details of that at a later date. Am I on this page? Yeah. Correct. I think that's probably the best solution we can come up with at this moment. But it'll be the first time that I remember that we've actually tried to do something different than what we've done to get us further along. So anyhow, that's where we are from the moment. And if we can get whatever the timeframe is to get an update and see what we can do. Okay. Is that everything? That's it for CIFE. Very good and then thank you all very much. And next we're going to have a briefing on the police holiday traffic, safety task force and impaired driving. And if that panel would like to please join us, it's always good to see everybody, especially Sergeant Cap here as well. Good to see you. All right. Only a good friend, only a good friend would start that trouble. You know that. Yeah. Assistant Chief McBain, you know we love you. And that won't be the only trouble he starts. You know that. Yeah. Assistant Chief McBain, you know we love you. And that won't be the only trouble he starts. You know that. Yeah. You're aware of that. Yeah. If the panel would please tell us who they are, and then we're gonna turn to Ms. Farong. Yeah. Assistant Chief Dave McBain, the field services spirit. Warren Jensen, the Director of the County Police, Traffic Operations Division, and Sergeant Patrick Hal. News for you. Yes, I'm really gonna just turn this over to the police. It's a presentation on their holiday alcohol task force, but it also includes information on total number of traffic stops, traffic fatalities, which ones are involved with alcohol. I know that council member Lutkio also asked a question on dual impairment. Holly substance impairment. Thank you. Yes. And they'll be able to speak to that too. They've got a PowerPoint presentation. I will manage that but just let me know next slide. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Before we get into the PowerPoint, I'll just open up just holistically giving you an overview of the alcohol task force and really how we deal with DUI detection in Montgomery County. Over the years, you know, you've seen our numbers. They've unfortunately dropped off a little bit from where we were several years ago. I hate to always kind of be a dead horse, but staffing certainly plays a role in this. And I think we're going to get away from this for many years now. But staffing does play a role. And to some extent, man, I was hoping we could never talk about COVID again, but we're still reeling a little bit from COVID. And when I say that, you have to understand that for a couple years there, we were putting brand new officers on the road who weren't doing traffic stops because it was deemed not appropriate for us to do traffic stops to put either officers at risk of COVID or the people that they were encountering. So we kind of have a, we have a certain number of officers that really weren't hyper trained on or applied DUI enforcement and we're correcting that by implementing our ARID program throughout the entire department, specifically to patrol services Bureau. But we're bringing all the officers back in for that elevated training, just to refocus their brains on DUI detection. I can tell you that the leaders of going back to ARIB were kept in warm gents and motor officers who typically don't even work the nighttime hours. but what was interesting was these guys recognized that they've forgotten a lot of what they've been trained as far as the SFSTs were concerned. And I kind of didn't expect to see the enthusiasm that I got from those guys. And interestingly enough, when we finished their A-Ride training, it just so happens that we were starting to the latest 2024 holiday task force and a few of them actually volunteered for that. And I don't think they would have volunteered had they not gone through that training and had a better understanding of, or a kind of a reprogram of their brain to do that. So moving forward though, we have a lot of ideas for, you know, getting our numbers up. We will be talking a little bit more about the control services bureaus impact on DUI enforcement as opposed to our our task forces and and also the alcohol unit. but as we get through our, I'll be able to kind of elaborate on that and then by answering your questions. So with that, Susan, we'll just go to the first slide. So basically the next three slides are going to be the task force. The holiday task force that we generate running the months of November and December of every year. The task force is obviously a majority of Montgomery County police officers, typically two officers from each of our six district stations. And then our ally partners, Rockville City, Gaysisburg City, Maryland National Capital Park, the Commonwealth Park, Maryland Transit Authority, and also Maryland State Police. And so this is a group of officers that are hyper focused on DUID detection for those two months. And as you see, we have a very good task force, the numbers for this year. Susan, if you get it next slide, dramatically different from last year, right? So we had a big emphasis on getting our numbers up from where we were last year, and I will give him credit, but Pat Kep did a very good job at actually firing up that unit and really being just the support that it needed and he supervised them through this year and we crushed last year's numbers next slide. But those are our numbers from the previous year which you know are really outstanding and over the time that we've run the task force we fluctuated in our numbers generally, this is kind of the number that we want to be around, 280 to 300. And I believe we can get back there. And so, but again, we ended on a good year. And I expect bigger numbers for this coming holiday task force. next slide? So the next slide is just really outlying what our collision reconstruction unit are heading out to. More often than not. So whenever we encounter a collision that we're not sure how it's going to end up, we oftentimes err on the side of caution. It'd be much better for us to go out in Marcosine and to start an investigation, hopefully, that ends in a good way. But oftentimes, when we go out, it's usually because we're pretty right. But here you'll see over the years that we do tend to go out and err on the side of caution. And so the amount of cases that we respond to as opposed to those that are fatal, there's a small deviation in the numbers. Next slide. So this is a big one that we've talked about and we obviously it shows that we've seen it upticked, it's where substance is involved. So alcohol or some type of drug is involved in our fatal collisions and and at some point we were at about 60 percent of our fatal collisions. There was some form of impairment which is is very high and unacceptable and would indicate to you that we still have a very serious problem with the DUI and DUI D in this county. Next slide. Non-motors or pedestrians. We actually evened out and we ended with 14 pedestrians that were killed as a result of a fatal collision. And this is a number that's just, you know, it's too high, but some of the factors we're looking at is, you know, we're not just always looking at that vehicle, we're looking at the pedestrians in motion and how they have to play a factor in these fatal collisions. We have a lot of fatal collisions where ultimately the pedestrian loses out big, but they were at fault in their loss. And when you also really break down these numbers, impairment of our pedestrians is also a significant factor in these collisions. So So education becomes a huge part of this. Education, prevention and enforcement. And I will tell you that this year, I'm not so sure we're gonna have the success. I want for distracted driving automated enforcement, but that same enforcement can be applied to pedestrian safety. And so as we move through the year, my goal is to roll in in Maryland into the napless next year with more of a charge to push for automated cameras for pedestrian safety, which would focus on, you know, vehicular violations, you know, where they're not yielding to pedestrians, but we need to hold, we have to make sure that we hold our pedestrians accountable as well for their own safety. Next slide. So, here's the numbers I'm talking about. I'd like to elaborate. I don't want to steal all the thunder here, but I think I'm one little bit of a roll, but... It's a good thing you fell as broad. I'm just telling them. But so, you know, you see, there was a day where we were arresting a lot of DUIs in the county and the numbers clearly have dropped off. Again, our staffing certainly plays a role, the COVID part plays a role. But what's interesting and, you know, I'm trying to stay positive. I'm going to but when you see things like Senate bill 292 being introduced in the state of Maryland. That's the secondary traffic violations. I I hope that that bill dies and but I have to say that even though If a bill passes or doesn't pass officers are paying attention to what's being drafted and what's being introduced in and that goes in. So we're on a number of different fronts. We're trying to make sure that our officers won't enthusiastically go out and conduct legal traffic stops and identify drunk drivers and you know illegal driving in general. But we're trying to convince our officers to trust the way things are going and to do their job and that we have their back and that you have their back. And I think moving forward, I think we're in a good trajectory, but it almost seems like we hit these little speed bumps sometimes and they're not good. So we'll navigate them, but my goal is to try to make a positive push to have these officers still engage. Now, I have a plan. Is there in French still here? Because I didn't ask yet, but I went to the big balls. And so we've had a conversation. But so my plan for this summer, and again, I have to make sure that we can do this because it's a staffing issue. But I have plans to have a summertime holiday task force where we can operate a task force from May, June, and July. My goal there is that we can hit Sink into Maya, we can hit Memorial Day, we can hit July 4th, where we're out there in force. The task force shows you that when we hyper focus on DUI, we can lock up a lot of them. But we can't rely on our patrol to, you know, run calls for service, be available for violent crime. Do all these things that we rely, you run the domestics, do all these things. And oh, by the way, also, we need you to lock up DUIs. We're getting them, but not at the rate we used to, but I believe that we can put up some significant numbers in the summer with this task force mentality where we bring resources from all six of our district stations, like we do in the winter, and we also rely and partner with our allies. And I think we're going to see some big numbers and make a significant impact over our summer months, over graduation. You know, once the kids hit streets in the summer, we'll be out there in hopes of combating this DUI issue that we have. Next slide. These are just some more numbers about years that we've seen. And what I just said before is that we've seen it trickle up where alcohol, you know, impairment is is a part of our our collision reconstruction. Next slide. traffic stops that is kind of trending with our DUI stops and stuff. You're seeing a decrease in the number of traffic stops we used to make. There's a different outlook though. Our officers are clearly not, don't really have as much time as they used to do traffic stops. So, but we also, we still have some officers that there's a reservation from getting really aggressive when it comes to doing traffic. And it's so funny because we were joking about this other day, but Tom died in before he left made these folders, but it said traffic enforcement is law enforcement. And we sometimes forget that the traffic stop is a huge, huge tool towards making our county safe not only for impairment but for criminal activity. I think that's it. I'm going to take the chief covered everything for us. You got the mean points. First off, thank you all very, very much for everything you do, not just on this topic, but on the other topics. I got to tell you, to me, it is amazing and candidly sad that still people will do this. I mean, the chances of getting caught, the more they become the chance of getting caught. Hopefully we can save some lives and change some patterns, some behavior. But it's just amazing to me. an officer locks up a somebody for DWI, how long does it take to your point earlier, Assistant Chief, that somebody that they're doing all these other calls, if they're locking up somebody for DWI, they're obviously being tied up with that person. So how long, and means that they're not on the street doing other things that are necessary? So how long does it take if you have someone who is a DWI? How long does it take? So we brought a Sergeant Kepp here to actually get the perspective of the traffic stop and what he is seeing out there. I think he can answer this about the time consumption that the UI does impact our ulcers. Yeah, so for patrol, it whether it's a self-initiated stop or whether it's a call for service, be it a crash or a, call it like a one-slumped one down somebody sleeping at the wheel, something like that. From the time that they encounter them first to the time that they're finished processing at the station, in a perfect world about an hour, I would say, for the average patrol officer. So a tenth of their shift. Some more seasoned officers in those, like, in the alcohol initiatives unit that do it all the time can maybe crush through it in 45 minutes or so, but I would say an hour, maybe a little more than an hour, for the average patrol officer to handle that. And again, some of it depends on their comfortability with how they are with the process. If they haven't done one in a while, they may need some refresher, which to this isn't sheep and maine's point, the A-ride training. And within that is a SFST refresher can give them some new perspective and a reminder on how to do that and maybe how to go through it a little quicker. And I think that's why it is so very... I think that's why it is so necessary to your point about the summer. If we can, and you hope nobody gets into themselves in this kind of situation, but if we can tell that young person or others, but the summer is many things, graduations and whatnot, if we we can say, look you do this, you're going to have a real problem and change that pattern so that they don't do this. It would be so much more helpful not to the, for the safety of the people as well as everything else. And to your point about the fatalities versus the non-motors involved, it's necessary to remind ourselves that it's not only the driver, though we certainly blame the driver. It is not only the driver that is causing some of these issues. And we have to be truthful about that, you know. The reality is we've won. I think that we, and there are, there are occasions where we have over service in some of our establishments at night. And, and so we have, you know, when some of the pedestrians that have been struck and killed in Montgomery County have significantly high BACs. Now, it's not against the law to walk around drunk. However, it doesn't do you well when you have to get across 355 or Georgia Avenue and things like that. So, you know, we definitely have an issue there. And then when it comes to just overall pedestrian safety, pedestrians can be distracted as well. And you see it often, people on their phones walking across an intersection, making no eye contact with the vehicles coming towards them. Yeah. You just touched on a point about bars, restaurants, over-surface. So could you talk or start to kept talk about what happens when you're in the middle of doing one of these enforcement programs and you're noticing a pattern of conduct where the individuals being stopped are all coming from the same establishment where they've just dined or had a lot of Sergeant kept answers. But before I will tell you that, you know, I've kind of been in and out of traffic division over my years at Los Angeles, the captain of the division and now as the bureau chief. But we definitely had a bigger footprint in our establishment checks. As Commander 3D, we flipped that on its head. And we started working with the Maryland Tom Crowler's office and a whole bunch of other partners to hold downtown Silver Spring in general accountable for its actions in the nighttime. But again, when we're looking at if we were to play a significant role with ABS, it would be very tough for us to take the resources although in Sergeant Kevill talk about it. We still do establishment checks. Obviously not at rate that we'd love to be able to do that. Yeah, so we work closely in the Outline Issues unit with AVS and we have a compliance check program. So there's one officer, Alster Shinnad, she's assigned within the unit to work with ABS for the compliance check program. And that's primarily for service to underage. So they have a program where they bring, call them UVs underage volunteers. They're actually paid. But they come in, they have a vertical under 21 license, they go into establishments, usually about 20 to 30 businesses per day that they go and check. And we do establish a checks to make sure the businesses are carting and checking the IDs and if they're not there, cited appropriately, both criminally and through ABS for their sanctions. The over-service side of things is admittedly very difficult because that requires us going into a bar and establishment of club, whatever restaurant, usually in plain clothes and observing behavior within the establishment and then reaching out to that individual that we believe is being over-served, making those physical observations and hopefully using a preliminary breath test to try to get a reading of what their alcohol concentration is and then citing the business in that way after the fact there. So that's a difficult thing because it requires officers and playing close to go in, the cooperation of the individual who's drinking, who may not want to work with us, and then cooperation of the bar, the establishment, which is easier because they're under their license restrictions and what they have to do with the establishment. We do have a number of, we'll say, hot spots or trouble establishments that I'm working with ABS. We established we found out about one or two during the task force that we have just a huge rate of number of individuals coming from specific places and that does not become lost by ABS. They take those complaints and those reports and address it in their way. And that's kind of something that I'm working through with ABS right now for those couple that we've established during the task force. But outside of just the over service checks in general, will if we find an area or a location or different establishments, whether it's the Georgia Avenue corridor, whether it's 355, wherever, we'll just saturate those areas and look for those individuals there and try to hit those areas to hopefully prevent the crashes that come from it. And that's something that I will say for the task force side of things. We did have fatal crashes during the task force, but I believe none of those were substance related, at least with the drivers. I think we might have had pedestrians, but we did a good job with the task force of mitigating that. And that's always one of the goals. It's nice to be able to say that during that task force, we'd be nice to say all year long, but during the task force, we did our job and we kept those impaired drivers from causing those crashes that resulted in fatalities or serious life threatening injuries. So for the trouble establishments that you're working on presently, and I know you can't say who they are, and that's okay. Are they issues where it's all over service? Or is there also over service combined with underage service applicable? Underage service, I'd say we've done a really good job. The compliance check program has worked very well over the years. There have been a couple of problem establishments historically with that program, but ABS has very much can address that on their end with sanctions on their their alcohol license and things like that. It's tough to say that is someone that is there obviously over the legal limit, 8.16 coming out of a bar, is that over service for them? How did they appear at that bar? So that's a difficult thing to quantify and to say on the back end, which I think is one of the hurdles that I am encountering with ABS is, yes, there are a bunch of arrests that came from ex-establishment, but were they over-served, or were they just legally for driving DUI, DWI, after the fact, and were they actually over-served? So that is a difficult thing to navigate. But I think to me, the fact that we have whatever pick a number say the 30 arrests in a three month period from one establishment to me, that's a problem. And that's something that I'm working with with ADS. So in terms of the measurement for intoxication and the breathalyzer test, you know, just as we say for the millions watching at home, right? But that's going to be different. Like there is a standard objective measure. However, how each individual's body processes it is different. And it even is varies by gender, it varies by weight, it varies by all whole host of circumstances that are unique to each individual. And I know you teach this at the Academy as well. And I've had the pleasure of actually getting to see you do that and help out, help in air quotes with that. Yes. And it's difficult. It is difficult to discern accurately, you know, how that works, but the actual breathalyzer is the appropriate measure. And I know that there's some movement nationally to set the level lower than a point 08, is that right? Yeah, a lot of states are kind of starting to dabble with the O5. I don't know where the state would be on that. I know that when we went from point one to O8 it was it was it was a kind of it wasn't popular at the time and then many states adopted it. I think you told isn't O5 though but I don't know where the state of Maryland is going to go with that right now. Right. I wouldn't be surprised that in Chal is a point Oh, there. That tracks. Yeah, and I do want to thank you for your advocacy and anapolis on the automated enforcement for distracted driving. I appreciate the past that you've brought to that issue. And I want to thank Captain Jensen and Sergeant Kepp for their collaboration on the reckless negligent and aggressive driving and criminal negligence laws and trying to do a better job as you know, they're tired of hearing me say this but of doing things and creating mechanisms that allow us to modify behavior, right? Because at the end of the day your goal would be I have less of these arrests to do. Right? You just don't want people driving drunk. Or high or as I'm about to ask you both at the same time. Because that's not good for anyone. Right? And it doesn't matter where you are in the county and it doesn't matter your economic status and it doesn't matter any of your demographics. It's affecting everyone adversely that conduct. And as you know we noted during our hearings in Annapolis for the when you are impaired you are not the best decision-maker right and while our bills were not about DUI they were about speed those two things can often go hand in hand because you are not making accurate judgments. And for every 10 miles an hour you're going above the speed limit, the likelihood of serious bodily injury or death increases dramatically, is that right? Yes. Okay. And so you would say that DUI enforcement and prevention work is critical to us also reaching our vision zero goals. And so can you talk and I did a rye long in June with one of your officers when you were still third district commander and he was new. He was six months in out of the academy and he was very sweet and he was like, this is fun because I can ask you law questions tonight. It was good. But I noticed we were in downtown Silver Spring and we kept circling in and out of the Tacoma Park area just to get around the Purple Line construction. There was a DUI enforcement happening that night down there. We were not involved with that. There were a lot. You mean like a roadblock? There had been five DUI arrests. And it was not even 11 p.m. yet. Five. And we were driving and a vehicle went, we were in the right lane. And they went across in front of us, across all the lanes of traffic to the left turn lane with no signal and a bunch of cars had to slam on their brakes. And my officer said, oh, I don't wanna have to do this, right? There's this reluctance to have to do the traffic stop. Had to do the traffic stop because you can't, you just pulled in front of a police car with no signals and everything. The person was lost, right? They were from out of town, whatever, they got a warning, we gave them directions to parking. It was, you know, it was all good. But this happens. And our officers are doing their very best to be there when the things are happening, but we only have so many to go around. And that's going to continue being a problem as well. So my question on the polysubstance piece, right now there is no roadside test to administer for cannabis intoxication, right? Right. Correct. Ish hatching. Roadside test as in like quantitative? Yes. Yes. Correct. Why don't you talk to us about what you can do when you've done when you've observed impaired driving? Of course as an officer who's doing a traffic stop is observing what is perceived as impaired driving? Sometimes it could be distracted driving like that may ultimately there may not be a substance impairment, but there may be distraction, right, but as impaired driving. Sometimes it could be distracted driving like that may ultimately there may not be a substance impairment but there may be distraction right but walk us through that and then what happens when you're assessing? So the process is exactly the same whether it's alcohol is a drug whether it's alcohol or another drug be a cannabis an arctic dissociative and aesthetically PCP it's all it's all the same it with SFSTs. It starts with the standardized field subride test looking at the highs for the horizontal gaze and the stagmus, the walk and turn of the one leg stand. Then there's a separate battery of tests that Chief McBain alluded to, which is a ride. It's called Advanced Roadside and Pair Driving Enforcement. It's a two-day class that, again, I kind of built the pilot program for program for and got approval through Chief McBain to push out and make a mandatory class for patrol. It teaches three additional tests that can be used for alcohol impairment but also for other drug impairment as well. Another test looking at the eyes and then something called modified rumberg balance and finger to nose. So it's three additional tests that we can use roadside to determine impairment. Ultimately, if the SFSTs are fine, whether or not someone was just smoking cannabis or using heroin or something else, if the SFSTs are fine, it's the same as alcohol. Somebody can be legally over the limit, but if they don't have those psychophysical signs of impairment through the tests, we don't have the probable cause to arrest somebody. But if they, if it is another drug, we go through the ARI test, if they're trained or if they just do the S-S-V-S-T's, they go back to the station, take them back and process them just like a normal alcohol, the U-I-R-S-T, and then if drugs are suspected, then a drug condition expert and I'm one of them and we have about 18 in the county right now come in and do an evaluation on the back end and if we talk about time as we did earlier about a normal D to normal UIRS that does add about another hour to the entire process. Someone has to come in if they're not working the if I'm not working the road and I a call, I got to come from home and do that evaluation. So it does add another element of time into it. But that battery of tests then allows the DRE to determine a category or categories in the Oli Polydrug world that someone is impaired by. And then and only then can we get that blood test request for that gets sent up to Maryland State Police and they test the blood to determine what's there for drugs because alcohol is already been ruled out so that's kind of the process. We do also have, and I don't know if Jimmy came was going to talk about this, there's there is roadside testing that is available to oral fluid testing for drugs. It's not a program that, it's a program that we started through Alston Derby Shire. And we have a couple of the instruments that are within the county and available to use. It's just not something that we've, it wouldn't be evidentiary nature, kind of like the preliminary test. It's not evidentiary. It can't be used in court. It would just be another roadside tool to possibly determine whether or not a substance is there based on the oral fluid at the time of the stop that then we could use to corroborate what an officer sees on the road in addition to those fields of variety tests. And if I can add, so So, Officer Derbyshire teamed up with Senator Kagan. We're several of you. in addition to those fields of writing tests. And if I can add, so Officer Derbyshire teamed up with Senator Kagan for several years. And we, at the time, was to get across, get in through a NAPLISU legislation a pilot program to utilize the Drager World Testing system. We have them, we use them in our cannabis labs. But what's interesting to me is I feel like, I don't wanna say it's the carpet for the horse because I think the whole nation is kind of gone towards cannabis is legal, but we don't have a plan, right? To determine, you know, like some states have adopted a certain amount of nanograms is gonna be like a per se, potty or a positive. We don't have that in the state of Maryland. I'm very curious to see where we're gonna go. I think a lot of it might fall on the state toxicologist with Maryland state police. But we really, I think we need to go there, right? But we were the first to use the world sampling testing. It's accurate. And I would invite you guys. I'll April the 10th, I believe it is. Is our next green lab. And as a department, we've done more green labs than any other police department in the nation probably. And we're gonna continue with our efforts to try to teach our officers how to recognize some of these things. And I will say, Sergeant Kept talked about approximately 18 DREs, it would be great if we had 48, right? It would be great if we could expand the program. It's a very tough program to get through. But the more deorees that we could have on the road at any given time, the delay of that evaluation is reduced. And so that's where we'd love to focus. Well, and could you please, I mean, you just noted that it's a tough course to get through, but like what qualifies someone to to be a drug recognition expert? So you have to have experience in DUIDI enforcement, which we usually take to mean within myself in Sarge Smalley, who's the agency coordinator, means a significant number of arrests. So experience out there actually making alcohol DUI arrests, so that that can translate to proficiency in the standardized field sobriety tests and comfortability with the program. ARIID is not yet with the state a mandatory prerequisite, but we would like to see someone have ARIID training first, that second level after SFSTs. And most deories do have that prior to going into the DRE program. And then you have to experience testifying the court and that for us usually means we want you having a DUI trial or two underneath your belt. So because when you go in and testifies the DRE, it's drug recognition expert. So you're expected to be an expert. You get declared as an expert in court. So you wanna have it some experience there. so you're not just thrown into it. Then it's an recognition expert. So you're expected to be an expert. You get declared as an expert in court. So you wanna have it some experience there. So you're not just thrown into it. Then it's an interview panel with myself, Sergeant Smolley, and someone else to apply to be a DRE. And we asked some technical knowledge questions, and it's a basics about impaired driving enforcement. And then that recommendation goes up to the state coordinator, Wayne Cook, with Maryland State Police for Sardin Cook and they ultimately decide who is gonna be Sardin. enforcement and then that recommendation goes up to the state coordinator wing cook with Maryland state police for started cook and they ultimately decide who is going to be selected for the class and then as jeep McVain said it's a it's a it's a long class it's a it takes about takes somebody off of the road for about an entire month to do it's it's two weeks in the classroom a week of evaluations similar to the alcohol workshop except Philadelphia where we actually see people who are very impaired by drugs in Kensington, Philadelphia. And then it's another week after that studying and preparing for the final knowledge exam, which is a difficult exam. It's not impossible by any means, but you'd have to get 100% on it. So it's a it's a longer process for someone to become a Diary. So it's not that bad. Now, he just self-selected that he's out. So that's the whole process to become a Diary. And I do want to touch back on the polysubs and stuff that is very difficult for us because we have a tendency within the Diary program. And when it deals with fatal crashes and things like that, as soon as alcohol pops at a .08, right, you stop drugs are out. So the state toxicologist isn't gonna spend their extra time resources, be it money or time, to test for anything else in the blood. So there probably are, it's a reporting deficiency for us. There probably are a number of crashes that are polysubstance, be it alcohol and something else, be it cannabis and something else that we just don't collect that data and don't have it on. Which is the benefit of a DRE because the DRE can come in and determine what category or categories someone is impaired by and then make that determination. And again, that isn't always quantified by blood because you can always refuse the blood test. But that is a deficiency that we have with the testing and with how the program works for right now. And in terms of, because it's one thing like that the state toxicologist goes, okay, we've got alcohol so we're done. But also, there are issues within the court system in terms of our cannabis testing and acceptance as evidence of intoxication. Is that right? Courts are a whole different beast. Yes. Yeah. Can you speak to that a little bit in terms of, you know, because you just noted as a drug recognition expert, you're expected to go in and be able to testify as an expert witness and of course you can on in talks, you know alcohol intoxication and all of the measures and science that are behind that. At this point in time, it is my understanding that in the judiciary, if they've got that they don't want to bother either themselves with working through the expert witness' admissibility of the cannabis intoxication issue. Is that fair to say? Yes, it's still getting that, you know, the ruling or the judgment in court of guilty versus not guilty is is a difficult hurdle for for drugs. It seems that there is a reluctance to Sometimes have that guilty verdict without blood and then even sometimes having blood and seeing that While chiming-pain talked about there's no per se level there there is a threshold that the blood has to reach for any of the drugs to be considered a positive. And that's something that state toxicologists has reached. So the argument that I've had personally in a trial relatively recently is, well, yes, it's positive for cannabis, but that doesn't mean impairment. Because the nanogram level for cannabis specifically is very difficult. It's just like alcohol. Someone can be a .20 functional alcoholic walking around, walking, talking, not stumbling, things like that. It's still functioning. Somebody with a nanogram level of you know, 50, where cannabis could be absolutely fine, could do fine on field sobriety tests could be, you know, relatively fine driving. It's a difficult thing to reach. So the judges, I would say the judiciary does have a difficulty sometimes reaching that determination that even though the blood is positive, even though the field sobriety tests and the driving are poor, that that still rises to that level of beyond a reasonable doubt. And, you know, we also get we have many situations where prescription drugs, for example, it's not illegal to drive on your prescription drugs, but I had one case I remember from a few years ago that was an ambient case. I think we should all know that you shouldn't drive on ambient. And the ruling when it came to court was well It's prescribed they were prescribed it so it's okay to drive on it So there's still some dissonance. Yeah, not so much not so much Yes, so you know, there's there is that disconnect and that's something that you know I've tried to work with and all of us here have tried to work to To train everybody not just officers on the whole process but the judiciary side of things is a hurdle that we face with theories. And frankly, to kind of the desire and about the time off the road, the court side of things does frustrate officers as well. You do all the work, you go in only to have something not positive in your mind, an outcome of guilty, whether it's PBJ, approvation board judgment, or a guilty verdict. You know, that weighs on officers as well. And it's frustrating to do all the work put in all the time, especially in the alcohol initiative unit and, you know, do all these arrests and go to the task force and then have it not come out and court in something that helps the public safety and helps our community. I knew Councilmember Mink is leading to ask a question. So I'm gonna stop talking. Since Kristen can't look at me right now, I'm going to go talk to him. So here you go. He's under a time constraint as well. So please, that was an undermate. I appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate that line of questioning also. I wanted to check in about HB 105, speaking of state laws, which is going to have ignition interlocks for first time DUI offenders. If we're able to, it's obviously, it's still very early. I don't know if we're seeing anything on that or what's anticipated. If you could, if somebody could speak to that and if there's going to be a way for us to kind of track the impact and effectiveness. It's very difficult to track. We really only, a lot of those statistics who come from the MBA with their, the interlock is extremely good at every time someone gets in the vehicle and they have to blow in the interlock, it records all that information. So the MBA has a lot of sanctions on their end when alcohol does pop, whether it's full of threshold to drive or above the threshold to drive, all that gets reported back to the MBA. For us on the road, it's very difficult until we encounter someone that we see on their license. It says a J restriction interlock required and they don't have it on their car and we cite them in that way. and I don't have the exact numbers of how many times we cited that. It does go into back in the presentation of alcohol restriction violations. That's certainly a part of it. Although another part of that is under 21 and other court imposed alcohol restrictions. So it is hard for us as law enforcement to track that. That would be more of an MVA side that you can probably reach out to them and have the data that they have for how many interlocks and then how many times either individuals or in general violations occurred for those those interlocks themselves and how many times people just don't put them on and things like that. Yeah, yeah, that would be great. And certainly, yeah, Miss Farug, if maybe we can pursue some of that with the MVA, obviously having a way to track what's effective and what's not, and is this state law now like saving our officers time, for example, that sort of thing would be really useful to have that information. And really, there's a number of variables here, Of course, that are at play. And so whenever we're able to have, you know, to pull some data on what's the most effective. And where do we want to put more resources, for example, as we make those types of decisions, that's always going to be helpful. And I think Sergeant Kepney made reference to there being, you thought there's been no driver-impaired crashes during the holiday task force. Like that kind of data is great, right? Did I hear that right? Yes. Yeah. So I think that kind of information is really helpful. We can use that to back up, you know, where we're putting resources and to consider where we want to put more resources. In general, you know, how are we analyzing the effectiveness of the various types of interventions that we have at our disposal or how is that being analyzed? When you say interventions other than like the, the, the, the laws, can you be worse? Like DUI court. So like that, right? DUI court, the holiday, the past court. Yeah, so Judge Koch and actually Jamie Derbyshire have had great success in DUI courts. However, unfortunately, and I don't have the exact numbers, but I'll get them to you. The recidivism rate is rather high. So the whole point of DUI court is to give that alternative solution and to work them through, but unfortunately we're seeing repeat of people recidivizing. And so I'll get you more data on what we're seeing with DUII for it, but it's, I believe we're heavily invested and we're going to continue with that as an alternative to you know, to go into jail really. I mean, you know, I like to keep people out of jail when we can, if it's effective for the intervention, also effectiveness to your point, recidivism, like this is that's the primary end goal for everything that we do is keeping everybody safe. And so it would be great as we as we have these to make sure that we're including some kind of some way to correlate the intervention with the results as a you know not just like how many people for example are going to court or how many people are we stopping, but what are the results on the street. So, you know, we have the data today about the number of crashes and so how does that correlate with how do we, you know, can we overlay that on top of some of our interventions. And I think the example with the holiday task force and no driver related impairments, like that's a nice cause and effect, especially if we can compare that to other scenarios. Being able to have that is really, really helpful. You know, reminds me of, of course, what we're doing, for example, on the school side, right? We want to see learning go up. There's like a whole bunch of different interventions that we could be funding and increasing, et cetera, that are going to have some kind of impact on that. But what are the most effective? You know, and how are we asking staff to spend their time and that sort of thing? The more detail that we can get on that, will be helpful. Yeah. When we're talking about recidivism and other things that we can do to combat DUIs, something is very interesting. I don't know the exact number, but it's in north of 600. We have over 600 open warrants for DUI in Montgomery County. And those are people that just didn't come to court to hear to their charges. So the result, those are also our pursuit of, you know, issues. So, you know, we've discussed utilizing some state funds to have actually, you know, warrant suites, you know, to kind of get through our community, see if we can find these individuals and hold them accountable. And I think that, you know, if you take the problem out of the community and at least hold them accountable to the DUI charge itself, we can make an impact there as well. I appreciate that. And I was kind of looking to try to look into what the effectiveness of different interventions. I discovered, and I'm sure sure this is old news to all of you, but the University of Maryland has a DUI, alongside DUI Institute program. I don't know, you know, the details, but I know that we have officers who have been involved in that program. And what caught my attention is that one of the things that they look at is learning the latest information on the effectiveness of different types of countermeasures from admission interlocks to DUI courts, sobriety checkpoints, police traffic management, etc. And so whatever data they have, it would be great for us to get a hold of that and be able to look at that. And another intervention that wasn't listed there, but then I know we offer in Maryland and Montgomery County is sober ride, which is not a police initiative, but it is a variable that would, you know, of course, is supposed to have an impact on keeping impaired drivers off the road and so being able to get some, if we could get some data on that, the effectiveness and the use of that that would be great as well. And I will plug also that there is when I just pulled that up that there is a so bright campaign running for our St. Patrick's Day when folks can free ride home from up to 15 bucks, which often takes care of a lot of it from March 15th at 4 p.m. until 4 a.m. the next day. Yeah, we partnered with Wobblequad a bit. I think Wobblequad wrap. Yeah. Wobblequad wrap. Wobblequad wrap. 15th at 4 p.m. until 4 a.m. the next day. Yeah, we partner with Wobble quite a bit. I think Wobble wrap wrap wrap. Can't keep trying to go in my different groups, but, um, but anyhow, uh, we, we, we, we, we partner with them and we push that, that message, um, is there's definitely some safe alternatives to get him. That's right. Yeah. So I really appreciate all the work that you're doing. This is really, really important. And the one piece that I would love is to have just a lot significantly more data on how we can compare these different types of interventions in terms of effectiveness and with effectiveness being, you know, the safety on the road and number of accidents, number of impaired drivers that we're seeing having issues as correlated as best as possible using you know, the safety on the road, a number of accidents, a number of impaired drivers that we're seeing, having issues as correlated as best as possible using some of the data that we have at a university in Maryland, which I see they've done a number of research studies as well, which is cool to have in our backyard and how we can apply that here. And with that, I yield, thanks very much. Yep. And we'll turn back to council member Luke. Yes, and how do you currently use any of the work that's done at the University of Maryland? So the University of New York Institute is a program that's for law enforcement. Right. So it's it's kind of doesn't really fall into the DRI A rideRide SFST program, but it's that another advanced training that's a week long at University of Maryland. So we have a number of officers every year who go through it. I think the application process is out now and it's been pushed out to the districts to people that are interested in doing it. And as council member mentioned, it does talk a lot about some of those other countermeasures. Again, some of the difficulties with that are those programs interlock, for example, is extremely effective. The statistics of the data on that show that having the interlock in the vehicle abiding by it and keeping it for the duration reduces that recidivism in the future. It's just that data for us as law enforcement is kind of housed within MBA because that's their program that should post it. So certainly having that, but again, it starts with getting somebody off the road, getting them in that program and getting them, you know, having them go in front of the MBA side of things. So we use those that have attended the DUI Institute, you know, bring that knowledge back and teach it, the majority of the people that have gone are my SFST instructors that that teach with me and we teach the recruits and we teach the current police officers. So we try to use that and bring some of that extra knowledge in, but I can't say that I use that data specifically for some of the stuff, but it's certainly out there. And it's knowledge that's passed on within law enforcement. And so, and you know, we mentioned a good point, which is there's the cohort of people who get an arrest for a DUI, they show up to court, they're ordered to have the interlock, and they do it, right? Those aren't the people who you're thinking are gonna recidivate, because they, there wasn't, there was the stop and the intervention, and then from that point forward, they followed all the things that they were instructed to do and they did them. That's the 600 open warrants that I care about because those are the folks who are going, I don't care. I'm not gonna go to court, right? And to our points on folks who, with existing other vehicle laws, can just write a check and pay the fine. And there's not that moment for that intervention or that tool or that way to say, what's it going to take for this person to change these behaviors because these behaviors are not working for the people and it's going to ultimately end up poorly for the person there as well. And I know that they're in talking to judge-catch some issues with, and of course we hear this in terms of, especially in the third district, cross-terristicional stops. So there are stops that are made and the data that's in this presentation doesn't necessarily mean these are all Montgomery County residents, right? So, um, and for DUI court, you have to be a Montgomery County resident in order to participate in Montgomery County's DUI court. And as I understand it, it's there's not like a, well, we stopped you here, but we're going to refer you back to Prince George's or DC or what have you. So, you know, we have some hiccups there and who gets to be able to participate in our D.Y. Cart as well. And then I... Georgia's or DC or what have you. So, you know, we have some hiccups there and who gets to be able to participate in our DUI cart as well. And then I know a couple of member cats was with me at the last DUI court graduation and Sarah for my office and it was there too. And there was a woman who got up to speak and she was doing well and had gone through the program, but that was her sixth DUI. Yeah. And there was like a bit of a gasp from some of the folks in there that this was this person's sixth DUI, and that of course in the sentencing last week in the more higher profile DUI case where there had been four over 17 years, you know, the point was this is probably not, these are just the times you've gotten caught. Right. And I'm feeling like we need to do a better job. We, I don't mean you all. We, the people, those in impositions where we can help facilitate, fund, what have. Of saying, how are we getting to you in a more meaningful way up front early and not at six because that's astounding and and we got to do a better job with that and I know you know there's stuff in the media about oh well this person's wealthy and maybe that's why but I'm like but this poor person who'd had six and was struggling and went through the program was not, was not a person of means, but they had had six prior, or six prior to you guys. So, what do you think collectively are some suggestions for what we, county government and or lobbying our friends at the state could be doing better to make sure, and that may be a connection between what officers are doing and what the judiciary's doing, and how are we matching better, that meaningful correction. So clearly, I think that, I indicated earlier that the state needs to decide how they're going to handle the UID, you know, specifically cannabis. Interesting enough and not only attack here, but in Montgomery County judges typically have a very strong verdict of guilt for the U.I. I think where sometimes there's problems as the sanctions. Right. Right. Right. So that's a real thing that yeah, you might get found guilty in Montgomery County, but might not go to jail, right? Not that everybody needs to go to jail, but we need to to look at that. I think the best example of that was mad when it first started. Who would they? Those women sat on the front row of courtrooms and they were listening to judges. Yeah, they did. And they were holding those judges accountable. I don't know if they'd do that anymore, but that was awfully effective anyhow. But here's an interesting component taken out of the the courtroom. When we do our Canada is some pair of driving. You mean the green lamps or the yes. Yeah, our green lamps. We partner with Morgan State. Yeah, right. And so it's very interesting. If You've ever seen it. It's, you know, our drivers come in not high. And so then we have them drive a simulator, pretty amazing simulator downtown Baltimore City. And they come off a 695 and then they start navigating. And they do it not impaired. And then after we've dosed them a couple times, we put them back on the simulator. And they are heard of a driver's right. But the interesting thing is that prior to doing that, almost all of them would tell you that they are very comfortable driving around impaired or smoking canvas because they don't feel impaired. It's just something they do. And we use that as a tool. You know, we we we use it as a tool to to want it to let people know that look the state McConeery County, we've adopted the canvases. Okay, but just same with alcohol. It's okay, but it's not okay to do it and drive, right? And so that's the position of the police department. So we try to show these people how horrific drivers they are. And then the hope is that they tell a friend, right? And then we kind of explain to people, you know, that you're not doing a good job. One woman in general, she was to talk about how she was doing so well driving the simulator. And I said, yeah, but you're on 6.95 and you're doing 15 miles now. Right, right, right, right. That was her way of being able to stay between the in her lanes. Yes, yes. So I think we're thinking outside the box, we're trying to do things to educate our community that we're not against the cannabis. We're just against you being high. And I didn't get to stay when I went for the green labs before I stayed up till they were doing the intake. And so it was fascinating because all the participants are the volunteers, I should say. The volunteers are all medical cannabis users. And so they were very eager to talk to me about how they got their card, why, what was going on, how their life was. Other, you know, prescriptions had been offered that didn't work as well for them. And so they, you know, that this was a thing that worked for them. And I know the night I was was there all of the volunteers except for one were repeat volunteers. They like to come. They knew the officers, they knew the program and it was really neat but they were very invested in helping and helping people understand. start contrast to the first time that Jamie and I went out and tried to convince one of the our our our dispensaries to partner with us. And man, they came in guarded. And it was interesting. And we also had to teach our officers that what you would have arrested them for as far as possession-wise was wrong. Last year. Yeah this year and then. And really, we're all strategic officers that these are not demon people. These are not demon people. These are just people who use campus in our community. And so we're able to educate our officers as well to understand and learn this new way that we're going in our society. Well, I will come on the 10th and I will be there and stay for that actual post intake. I don't need to do the classroom side anymore. I did all the classroom stuff. We'll have a councilman cast go in the 10th. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm there for that. I'm there for that. I've been to it and not for that. Yeah, no. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anything else? No. I will follow up on the program requirements for the next meeting. And I will also follow up with the department to see if we can get some more overlapping data to kind of show where fatalities happen or occur versus when they're doing their holidays. That's very good. Thank you. And thank you all again again for everything you do we appreciate you trying your best to keep us safe thanks