Which is the preliminary development plan for the town of Tioga South annex traditional neighborhood development And so I'm not sure who from staff is presenting but Oh, we need to do the thing this is quasi-judicial gotta do the thing do the thing all right You want to start with the party statement or the exparte? Whichever you guys would like to do Yeah You want to start with the party statement or the exparte. Whichever you guys will like to do. We do have a number of individuals. I believe it's five who have requested party status, but I will read this into the record. Anyone wishing to testify or present evidence during this hearing will be sworn in prior to speaking. Through the chair, all speakers may ask questions, seek clarification, and respond to comments or presentations of staff or other speakers. Anyone presenting written materials to the commissioners for consideration must ensure that a copy of such materials is provided to the clerk for inclusion in the record of proceedings. Florida law requires that the county commission's decision in a quasi judicial action be supported by competence of substantial evidence presented during this hearing. Component substantial evidence means that the board's decision is based on enough credible evidence that a reasonable person could agree. Persons presenting opinion or factual testimony may rely on any factual information in the record to support their testimony. Opinion testimony may be given by people qualified to give such an opinion. In a moment, the clerk or chair will ask for persons other than staff and the applicant who wished participate as parties to identify themselves and explain to the board why they believe they are parties. Parties are people who would be more directly or more substantially impacted by the board's decision today than the public at large. If the board grants you party status, you'll be asked, permitted a reasonable opportunity to present testimony and evidence and to ask questions. Otherwise, you'll be permitted to testify as a member of the public. And as I said, we do have the five individuals who have made a party request. We recommend that they be granted party status and given the opportunities afforded to parties. Okay? Any other? As far as I know, those are all of the requests for party status that we have received. In your rules, you can ask for additional, anybody else who would like to request party status, they would then have to explain why they did not timely request party status. I would move to those five being request by the status. I would move to those five big two-year party sets. Any motion on second? And Madam Chair, just one point of clarification, I believe Ms. McClendon is pointing this out. Susan Milbrath was the individual who requested party status and who you just found to be a party. Dr. Joe Kalthin will be speaking on her behalf as a representative but is not a party themselves. Okay. And Madam Chair just for the record, Dr. Kalthin did provide a PowerPoint today that he would like to share so I just needed rate just for the record it wasn't the seven days beforehand and he haven't seen it yet so he has that. All right thank you. Do we need to take public comment on the party status? You could certainly take public comment, and that would give the applicant an opportunity to comment on the parties. It does impact the consideration of their location. So we have a motion to grant these five individuals or organizations party status. If you would like to comment to that motion please do so. Madam Chair is that sheet in our backup because I didn't see it. I don't. It is. Okay. It didn't look like that. It's a great status for press PDF. Yeah it didn't look quite like that but it is in the backup. Okay. It's not green it's just white. Got it. There's a map of where their properties are located. All right. Seeing in no public comment, all in favor with the motion signified by saying, I, I, any post like sign? All right. Those five individuals have been granted party status. Now, X part A. Are there any X part a communications? I've done I have done I have done Anyone wishing to speak on item above you the standard raise the right hand? Do you some these were affirms that the testimony? Okay, these are only swear a firm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth Thank you. Madam Chair and commissioners, Leslie McClendon, senior planner with the Lachor County Growth Management, I have been sworn in. My resume is on file and this item has been properly advertised. So this is the town of Teoguth, South and Ex traditional neighborhood development, it's a preliminary development plan. So this is a T&D with a maximum of 500 units, a minimum of 35,000 square feet of non-residential. So that non-residential could be a mix of retail, non-residential, amenity center. It is at 1303 Southwest, 143rd Street. It's on approximately 222 acres. It is the low density residential future land use and single family residential zoning district. And so with the maximum of the 500 units, that is just over two units per acre over the whole property, over the whole project. And the low, well, let me get that one. So just as a kind of background for what traditional neighborhood developments are, this is just an excerpt from our code. So the intent of this traditional neighborhood development is to provide flexibility and development to encourage of mix of residential housing types and create the sense of community, common in neighborhoods. Additionally, the design of T&Ds allow for mixed use centers integrated into new residential neighborhoods or combinations of new and existing residential neighborhoods. And so basically for any project, there's certain thresholds where you are required to develop as a traditional neighborhood development. And one of those is if you are proposing a project has 300 or more units, and it's not on a designated rapid transit road, then you're required to do a transit traditional neighborhood development, which is why we're here tonight. So just a few maps about where this is in context. So this is the red, is the town of Tioga, South Annex Project area, to South of the existing town of Tioga development. This black line represents the urban cluster line. So this is kind of the urban development portion of the county and then the rural agricultural area. So that's on the border of that. And we have Southwest 143rd here and this is that Southwest 15th Avenue, that scenic road. And another location map that kind of shows the yellow is what's proposed tonight. Just in context with some of the surrounding developments. So can you have Southwest 15th Avenue here? You do have a couple of developments that have been approved along South-West 15th, some small rural ag subdivisions, a family home set subdivision. This is the LORIETT village, traditional neighborhood development. You have Tara Estates and then part of the town of Tioca PD as well here. This is that existing town of Tioga. We have Wexford, just a rural cluster subdivision to the east off of Parker Road. An aerial map showing there is the current, the owner has a tree farm here. Again, this is just, this is where South West 143rd Street kind of dead ends at that line and then South West 15th for some context. And again, some of the existing Teogate Development to the North, you have the Terror States development here. Off of, and this is 8th Avenue. And just a closer view of the proposed development and how it lines up with the already the southern part of that PD with Southwest 8 here. And then these are some of the existing conditions of that road. So this is looking south, traveling on southwest 143rd, kind of where that road get in turn to that southwest 15th Avenue. So you have the development, the Tilga development, to the left of the slide. And again, this is kind of making that turn around onto 15th Avenue, which is a county designated scenic road. Just that scenic road again. And this is Southwest 12th, I think it's actually place, which is a private kind of drive. It's actually on the project area, but it serves some of the homes to the north of that. So just that'll come in a little bit in a couple of slides within the project area. I just wanted to show that. So the first thing we look at with any development is any conservation resources, open space, and tree canopy preservation. So this is the Hickory Sync Strategic Ecosystem. Again, this is Parker Road here in southwest 143rd Street. This red is the outline of the town of Tioga T&D project area over what is the mapped strategic ecosystem. So typically, the site contains the ecosystem, a special area, a study is required, unless it can be demonstrated that ecological integrity of the strategic ecosystem is sufficiently protected. So as part of the site evaluation of the project, again to this one, the strategic ecosystem was ground truth by staff and the applicant's consultant. And so everything you see here that's in this light green, conservation management area, is shown on the development plan. And these represent 100% of the ground truth strategic ecosystem on this property. So this represents the extent of the strategic ecosystem areas that extend onto the town of Tioca site. And again, the portion to the south, the remainder of the Hickory Sync is currently undergoing, a special area study. And so that'll kind of go through its own process with where the resources are protected on that site. And so then at least 10% of the area of any development must be designated as open space. When the partial contains the conservation management area, the open space is first to fill with these areas. And so these, there's four separate CMAs. Those constitute 15.64 percent open space for the site. And so the open space is met for this traditional neighborhood development of here. There will be additional common areas throughout the site. These are some like proposed stormwater basin areas and then depending with finals we'll kind of get into other common areas as needed. And then tree canopy preservation. So traditional neighborhood developments require a minimum of 5% to be preserved. And the code list characteristics that are prioritized, and the first of which is, if the trees are located within a conservation management area. So, again, all this portion in the green, these are all part of the CMA, they'll be protected tree canopy area. Additionally, there are some other areas proposed for preservation. This along here, this is that Southwest 12th place that existing kind of a dirt drive that serves these residences. The dirt drive is on this property. So there is a 50-foot wide buffer with all those existing trees that will be preserved within that area. There's an area here that has some, they're not 60 inch trees, but there's some variety of sizes within here that the developer would like to work around at final development plan. And so they're, we'll kind of work with those within any proposed development within that area to protect those trees, mitigate appropriately if there's any impacts to those. There is, and again there's a line of trees here. There was an air in the staff report I think there says an existing drive, but there's a line of trees here that the applicant would like to protect as part of canopy over the entrance drive, which will be a little more clear in the next slide. There's one 64-inch tree as well. It's part of this row of trees that he would like to preserve. There is a portion and that's the 64-inch tree. Here's a little closer picture that 64-inch tree is here, and this is that road to the south. But there's, so this represents the extent of the right of way. So a portion of the right of way is shown under the drip line. So the right of way, it may not be fully impacted. We do have a note that's on the plan. There's been a lot of discussions with this. That some impacts of this tree will be allowed during final development plan. Any impacts will need to ensure the health among the jeopardy of the tree and be consistent with article 2 of chapter 406. Because there's kind of that, it's part of this line of trees in the intent is to preserve those over that roadway. Can I ask a quick question? I forgot. What is the scale on the topo map? What's the height difference in the topographical lines do you? I do not know of hand. That's okay. Yeah we can definitely not. I couldn't quite see it on the back of material. Can you see it? I couldn't see it. It's really small. Don't worry about it. Don't don't don't stress on it. Can I just curious? So then kind of moving into the general preliminary development plan. And we have the open space conservation management areas. This shows the general street network and the blocks. This is the village center. So T&D start with the village center, TND start with the village center, a central point and a village center that will be where the higher densities are. And again, overall, it's two units per acre, but the higher densities will be in this area with any like non-residential uses or things like that in this area. You have the transit supportive area. And then outside of that will be, it's called outside transit supportive area and the outside of that will be outside transit supportive area, which will be developed as a standard subdivision. So this is phase one. There is a GRU utility easement that kind of buy sex this property or crossings within that. But then phase one is proposed for 250 units east of that and that will connect to Southwest 136 and 131 within the GeoGa development. There's a small portion here for phase one for non-residential and then phase two, the remainder of that. There are for the perimeter of the site, when you're adjacent to other lots of a certain size or platted lots, then you require to either do a 50 foot buffer or do minimum lot sizes. So they are required to do a minimum lot sizes along this eastern boundary here and here, where they're adjacent to other lots outside of that development. I think there's a minimum width and overall acreage that I can pull up. I just can't think of hand. Again there's a 50-foot buffer along this northern boundary here that will have a fence on the south side of the trees there. They are also proposing within the western 150 feet here, which is about to this road, K, a height restriction of three stories as well as a 30 foot buffer along this road. It just kind of shows a closer area for this. The village that shows this buffer along here, 30 foot buffer here, and some of those areas of existing trees to help transition into the Sarriom. Yes, sir. Yes. Commissioner Kwinel? Uh, previous slide. Yeah. Is Road J, if you continue to go west, is that 15th Street? Correct. Thank you. I have a question, too, since we're stuffing. Restricted to three stories is hell-high, because a story can be very different heights. I think the typical is like 35 feet or so. Like it's a, you know, let's put it out in like a residential area. So, and again getting more into the transportation network here. This is row J. And again, this would connect, this is Southwest 15th Avenue directly to the west. So right now, 143rd kind of can kind of see where it curves here and connects there. So details, at this point, details of this connection, as opposed to be evaluated with the final development plan for that phase. There's been some discussion for potential roundabout or how that connection would work. The traffic study analysis that was done does not state that any improvements are required, but staff will review that type of intersection with the final development plan. Again, there's road K, which also comes around here to connect to 143rd. So there's two points of connection shown to 143rd. And then two points of connection to the north. There are two conditions that staff is proposing. One is to ensure that both of these connections to the north happen with the first subphase of development. So there's 250 units within phase one. The applicant will not come in with all of those at once. It'll be smaller, final development plans, smaller subdivisions within that phase. But staff recommends having both of these connect with the first subphase. Additionally, as I mentioned before, the special area study to the south is in the process of some sort. And then depending on if there's any development rights or connection potential to the south, staff has a recommended condition that this, that that be evaluated and then the right of way be dedicated. The road doesn't have to be necessarily constructed, but the right of way be dedicated to be able to connect to the south. Would it be possible to utilize the GRU easement as part of a connection or would they not agree to it? My understanding is, yeah, no roads in the utility easements. Right. I know that that's an understanding, but I always like to challenge GRUs authority in those kinds of things. And this just shows a general drip tribution kind of showing just a general percentage of trips on the roadways if there's any questions about that during the discussion. And I did want to just read through those conditions of approval that connection to both Southwest 136th Street and Southwest 133rd Way be made with the first sub phase of development. And prior to finalizing the conservation management area, legal description of management plan, an appropriate location for a full roadway connection to the South shall be identified. The location will be determined to minimize potential impacts to the Hickory Sync strategic ecosystem. Dedication of right away for the roadway connection shall occur with plating of adjacent lands. And with that, staff finds a preliminary development plan to be consistent with the Lachor County Comprehensive Plan and the unified land development code, staff recommends approval with conditions of the preliminary development plan for town of Teogasouth and XTND and resolution DR2432. That concludes staff presentation and I know that applicant has a couple presentations and party status as well. Any questions or staff before we move on to the next presentation? I have a comment. I have a comment. Sure. Cornel's goes. I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. On the tree canopy preservation slide, are there any 60 inch lie books that are in the area not being preserved. Madam Chair, no, there's just only 164 trees, this one on that roadway. On the polymer development village center slide right there, are there any discussions about not having road J intersect with 143rd and instead having Egress go through RODK. Madam Chair, there has been and staff, they are proposing the connection here. There could be like improvements here. I think the thought is too, if someone wants to go on 100 on on 15th they could go out wrote K and go to 15th this wouldn't necessarily encourage that any more than wrote K connection would. Yeah I would like to not have that connection come out at 15th I'd like that to be unless there's a complying reason why it has to be had I would like that. I mean that's where I am right now I don't want I don't want to encourage traffic to go out onto the scenic road. I think just in general we can explore that. Okay. And I'll have some more questions later. Thank you. All right, Mr. Prisce. Yeah, I've got a couple questions. Can you go to a side where you have a picture of the whole development? What is that white section cut out of the conservation management area? Yeah, that's what I think those are. This here. That's just another block in the neighbor, like that wasn't, it just, okay, so it was just not ground truth as conservation management, so the plan is for housing there or something. Okay. Okay. I just awkward to have like part of the conservation management area not connected to the rest of the conservation from a wildlife standpoint and a sort of ecosystem standpoint, right? That disconnect between the conservation management area for movement of wildlife and other, but I guess that wasn't strategic ecosystems. Okay, that would be great. Yeah, just kind of an understanding of that piece, because it feels like we're sort of creating these island effective conservation areas. So, and then my only other question was on the, I'm with you on the 15th of the day, I think we need to try our best to protect that scenic road. And, you know, it's an old dusty trail. It's not exactly meant to have a lot of traffic on it. So I think anything we can do to at least divert traffic to try to go other entrances and exits is great. I mean, that's the only question on the south side. Then identifying a place that rest of that strategic ecosystem. Why? I mean, if that's going to be protected, why would we want to roadway through it? At this time, it's just to reserve the option for if, because it's still undergoing study, so if it is all protected, then it won't connect. But if there is development rights or potential to connect, then the option is there. I see. But they have to somehow, so they just have to identify the location of their connection, not the location of the roadway. It sounded like you were requiring them to identify the potential location of a roadway in that strategic ecosystem south of them, which seems like a... Correct, depending on where, like the appropriate development is here, then it would connect. My understanding is this would be the ideal connection if there is development rights here, just based on what's out there, but then that could shift depending on where... Okay, so within their own conservation management area where a roadway would make the most... Right, yes, correct. ...just within this portion they would dedicate right of way. And then if this ever did come in for development and there was development rights, they would have the ability to connect to where... Okay. That makes sense. I guess, I mean, it makes sense. I'm not really that in favor of the idea of us potentially putting a road through a conservation area that we're going to put a conservation management plan over top of it seems sort of the antithesis of the idea of putting a conservation management plan on the property. But I guess I would. What's about the utility? Yeah, so I guess I would question that decision. And is it really necessary for us to have that software connection or other other software connections? I mean, we're looking at a very zoomed-in situation right now. I just don't know if there are other software connections on either side of that that could serve that purpose. Or if we really need that. It's in 140, I mean, 143rds, like right there. Right. I know the traffic is crazy, though. I know the traffic is crazy, though. I know the traffic is crazy, though. I know the traffic is crazy, though. And this is the dead ends. So how else will we get south if not Eastman? I'm commissioning. A chair. A chair, again, is really good. Let's put the road under the Eastman if we can do that. then you're not chopping up yet another you know you're dealing with already an impacted area but you know I understand from a neighborhood design perspective the advantage of the other place but I'd like staff to approach to hear you about that possibility. I'll next. Okay thank you I conclude. Right. Thank you. I can click. All right. So we'll hear from the applicants. Madam Chair, I'm just going to point out that it's 539 if you wanted to take a break. All right. So at 530 is the time we take general public comment and this is anyone wishing to comment on anything that we're not discussing in this meeting. So if you're just taking a pause for general public comment about things not on the agenda. So not about this item. We'll talk about this item later. Yeah. You're talking about this item. So that's not now. Not now. Yeah. So if you're here to talk about anything not on the agenda, we would take that comment now. Not seeing anybody. We'll go ahead with the presentation. Okay. Thank you, Madam Manager, for their reminder. Good afternoon, Madam Chair. My name is Jay Brown, and I'm here today with Luis Diaz, the developer of the South Annex. As you all know, I'm with JB Pro. I've been practicing civil engineer here for too long, 35 years. And Luis and I have been working together on the town of Tioga for over 30 years together. So we're excited to be here tonight before you to talk about the next big phase of town of Tioga and the last phase of town of Tioca and the last phase of town of Tioca. But we are super excited about it. So Leslie did a great such a great job with her presentation that I'm probably going to overlap a few things but I'll try to breeze through those because I know you've heard them and I know we get a lot of people that want to talk here tonight. But just this is a map that shows a little bit about where the you know existing town of Tioca is. And the reason why I wanted to show that, and this is the context of the new location that we're connecting to, is that in general, the initial town of Tioca is about 278 acres. It has two areas of kind of non-residential. We have the Tioca town Center that you're all familiar with. And then we have a little eight acre section that's yet to be developed called the Teogavillage, which is right along 8th Avenue, which is here. And it had around 512 lots. So it's similar in size to this new annex that we're doing, which is just over 200 acres and it's 500 units. So in general, they're somewhat similar in size. So one of the neat things about the town of Tioga is we were kind of a TND before you all had a TND ordinance. When Luis envisioned this project, and we worked on it many years ago, the traditional neighborhood design was exactly what we were trying to accomplish. And now it's in your code that people have to do traditional neighborhood design. But before that, we had 20% open space. We had 20% tree canopy. We built an Esplanade in recreation centers. And our town center there was about 21, 22 acres. And the area that we have set aside in the Tioca South Axis annex is about the same in terms of the non-residential area. It's about 25 acres. So I just wanted to give you that context. It might seem like, you know, town of Tioca is much bigger, but the really kind of about the same size just in general. And so this is the new property. It's about 216 acres, like I mentioned. One of the unique things it is bisected by the GRU power line, which makes it unique. You know, we have phase one on the east side and phase two on the west side. It does have good collector road access. We designed, when we were doing the town of Tioga, we designed two roads, 136 and 131 through what what we at the time called Town of Teogasal to make sure that it had the capacity to handle the traffic that this new Teogas will generate. And so those roads were designed to the standards of the county to accept this traffic. So now we're making this connection. Obviously, as Ms. McClendon mentioned, it's in the urban cluster. Central water and sewer available. It's proximate to schools and services. There are no flood planes on this property, so it's really an ideal location to be doing this new development. So our request was designed and Ms. McClendon also mentioned the purpose of the T&D, and I think that's exactly what we're trying to do. And there are all kinds of requirements in the T&D ordinance and our county's ordinance that we have to abide by when we did this design. And she demonstrated some of them as she was showing you some of the graphics on the staff's presentation, but we had to design it with a village center with a central point, and we put that village center adjacent to 143rd Street because it was the most significant collector roadway adjacent to our property. We have to provide common areas with plazas and parks and we've scattered those throughout and you really can't see it as much on the maps at this scale but we have extensions of the Esplanade where we have trails throughout this project connecting all these common open spaces and stuff. So it was really important and we spent a lot of time on it working with Luis to create that same feel that we have in Tioga where it's where walkable and that sort of thing very pedestrian friendly. In order to be in TED it has to be a minimum 15 acres which You have to have a range of housing types. You have to meet the density requirements. And again, you know, Tioga feels like it's nice and compact but there is a lot of open space and with the different types of uses in the non-residential to Tioga Town Center, we have barely over two units per acre. And that's what we're proposing in the South Annex also. So we're not trying to stuff in this project, the maximum density we can. We're trying to do the design in accordance with the county requirements. So we meet the minimum density requirements, but we're far below the maximum density requirements. There's very specific criteria that we have to do with this layout as it relates to blocks and streets and street designs and block perimeter distances. So all those things that you see on our master plan with the layout, they're all designed to conform to the county criteria. It has to include sidewalks and multi-use paths, which we've designed into the project. On street parking is encouraged. And of course, as we've already discussed tonight, the open space and landscaping is really important. And again, I won't go into a lot of details on this because you've already seen it through staff's presentation, but it is good to point out that we are setting aside more than the open space. And I can tell you, we do lots of development projects in and around Elatio County, and not many people do more than what's required, but that's what's done here. The tree canopy preservation is much more than what's required walking trails the village center. So again the village center I believe in this case is about 25 acres total in that area on the northwest side of the development over here that we've talked about. So it's in that roughly 10% of the project area and that is where you can have some of the higher density, three-story maximum you could do some residential above, some, you know, retail below or office space below which we've done in the village center. There is a buffer along that 143rd Street. Beyond the fact that we're saving all the trees here, we also have a 30-foot landscape buffer there. So that is really a nicely landscaped protected edge of the project. Again, we meet the access requirements and the block layout requirements. Ms. McClendon also talked about her two phases, phase one and phase two. Phase one will be developed first, but you should know that within phase one, a certain amount of the non-residential has to be developed. So you have to develop 50% of the non-residential in order to go into phase two to start doing more residential development. So we will have to do some of the non-res before we complete phase one. So it will be residential at first, but as we move on, we'll be doing some of the non-residential development as well. And we are proposing 35,000 square feet, which is the minimum proposed. The maximum allowed is 135,000 square feet. I'm not sure if you can see that on here, but there is more than that allowed, but we are proposing the minimum. So, transportation has been talked about. There's been comments from the public about transportation. I thought I'd go through just a little bit about the transportation here. So, the traffic study, we prepared a traffic study. With the last update we did was just last month. And there are 369 our trips being generated in the AM, 598 PM peak our trips being generated in the PM. We looked as part of the traffic study, we looked at what is the impact on those trips as they go into the roadway network outside of our project. And we determined that there are impacts in three locations. We need to add around about on 8,000 at 136th Street and 131th Street. And what that does is it changes it from a lower level of service to an acceptable level of service. And then also on 136th Street and I have that, I'll show you on the next slide, but there will be a left turn lane improvement that's required that we'll have to do up a new berry road. Interestingly, we're not distributing any trips west on 15th Avenue. So that the traffic study did not indicate that trips are going to be using that road. So we still want to address those concerns. So I will move on here. So as you can see, this is where the left turn lane was proposed. At Newberry Road, we would have to add a left turn lane due to the additional trips. The roundabouts will be up here on 8th Avenue in the regular town of Tioga, and then we would be doing an intersection improvement at 15th Avenue. Is there a light? Is there a light there? Yes. I thought there was. I just wanted to make sure I was remembering correct. There's a light, but there's no left turning lane no left turn movement so any other questions about that while we're here just in case I guess my question is regarding Commissioner Cornell and I's request to considering you have no traffic allocated to 15th Avenue do you feel how do you feel about just having that traffic rerouted as opposed to trying to create an intersection at 15th well we certainly when we met with the neighbors at a neighborhood workshop we heard all about their concerns about 15th Avenue so we understand that and what we propose to do. We think that that's the right location to connect because it is you know right across from an existing roadway connection on a hundred and forty-thirds tree and it works within our development to save trees and all the different things that we're trying to do throughout the project. But we do need to discourage people from making a shortcut from Tioca South Annex, just going straight to Newbury down south was 15th Avenue. So we propose that we do an intersection improvement there that kind of precludes that and I'll show you that. So this is what I wanted to point out in terms of the level of service. So right now the traffic study basically indicates that it will still be level of service A at that intersection even when we connect in 2034. So if you look here on this, the level of service is A and the year 2034. Because what we do with the traffic study is we have to advance background trips, not just the trips that we add, but the trips that will continue to be added on Southwest 15th Avenue, 143rd Street. And so even when you add those background trips, it'll still operate at a level of service A. However, that doesn't address the concerns of people leaving and want to make a shortcut, you know, even though we're not distributing trips because it's not projected that those are the primary uses towards the Newberry Road towards 8th Avenue wanting to go east and north, not west of Newberry. But the concern are legitimate that it's a scenic road, that it's narrow, that they're concerned about speeding all these things, that you're gonna probably hear some people talk to you about that today. So, well, before you go any further, for the public, can you define level of service A? Level of service A means that it has the best capacity to volume ratio, volume to capacity ratio that you can have. It has, there's plenty of capacity available. It can handle the volume, that sort of thing. It degrades over time, depending on set thresholds for the number of trips, the volume and the capacity. So, level of service A is the highest level of service. Level of service F is the highest level of service level of service F is the lowest so it goes from A B C into F So a level of service A means it's at the highest level very few of our intersections in Elatria County operated level of service A But this one does there's not a ton of traffic there so from a capacity standpoint it can handle additional trips is basically what it's saying. Okay. I just want to make sure everybody understood what that was saying. Right. Right. Now again you can have a level of service A because you know volume and capacity are fine but it doesn't necessarily mean that operational it's perfect for all the conditions that can happen at the intersection. So if we're going to make a new connection to 143rd Street, we're obligated to redesign that intersection to make it as safe as possible. And that's what we do. We work with Public Works Department and we design an intersection and we put in turn lanes and we do things that we need to do. So when we're going to connect here, and this slide here, when you we'd be connecting from here, this would be the South Annex. This is a hundred and forty-third street. So trips would go here. And what we heard at the neighborhood workshop from quite a few people, what they're concerned about is people from Tioga are just going to shoot right across here, and they're going to speed through 15th Avenue. Now I think it should be said that citizens have every right to use that scenic road and these folks that live on the scenic road have legitimate concerns about people driving safely. It is narrow. It's beautiful. Obviously they have all the trees and you know they don't have the public walkways and things that some of the other roads have. So people probably walk in the street, bike in the street, you know, that sort of thing. But I mean, the citizens can still use that road, but what we're trying to do is to try to divert folks to the north. So what we're proposing is that we would put a roundabout at that location that would not allow a direct access. So we would have a separator so that as you came from Tioga, you would hit the roundabout and you would be forced to go north. And I think staff mentioned that you could go up here on the other road that we have in Tioga Gardens. You could go up to here and you can turn left and you could still do that. But by that time you're right at 8th Avenue and I can't imagine and you can still do that. But by that time, you're right at eighth avenue, and I can't imagine that you wouldn't wanna just go newberry road if you were going to newberry. But. Jay, is there any other roundabouts in Gainesville that have a separator like that? I don't think I've seen one in Gainesville. No, we would just have to extend it further to the north. So that you're not, it's basically around about, so what would happen is if somebody from 15th Avenue was coming eastbound towards a 140th Earth Street, they could still go around and make their left turn like they do now, or if they're coming southbound, you know, they could still make their right turn. But the only movement that's really precluded from being an easy movement is this crossing right here. So if you're coming from a hundred and forty third street going east, right? This is North South. It's turned on this page to go on the side of the fence. Okay, sorry going north then, right? Okay, you're going north, that would be nice. Then you would not be able to make a left hand turn easily. Yeah, what it prevents commission is you're going west. Yeah, I see that. I can't keep going west. You have to go north. I understand that. I'm talking about coming from the other road. If you want, you know, you still can't make, you still can't get to 15. So it's fine. I like it. I think it's a good, elegant solution. And there is another roundabout up here at 8th Avenue. So if you did go around, you say, oh gosh, I really want to go back. You can go to the roundabout up here and head back south and go around. But it's going to preclude a quick, easy trip that way when we want to try to get them to use Newberry Road. I love that solution. I like it. Newberry Road. And that separator could be extended as far as public works wants us to extend it to make that movement more difficult. Really what we want to do is try to make it convenient for the people that still that live on 15th Avenue now that use that road regularly. We want to slow people down because I think they already have a problem with people coming down to that intersection just skating on to 15th Avenue real quick and not understanding that it's narrow, especially the new people that aren't used to using it all the time. So this helps that too. It's traffic calming, it slows people down. It slows people down that are leaving and cruising through 15th Avenue. They see the roundabout ahead and so they're going to start slowing down. So it actually does a lot to improve the safety of that intersection. Now we would still have to get this approved, work with public works. There's a lot of things that would have to happen, but that's how we propose to kind of address that concern that has been raised to us to slow people down and kind of preclude that shoot across there to 15,000 and get their speed up. So anyway. Fisher, wait a minute. Did you have another comment, Fisher, President? Is that didn't clear? Okay, Commissioner Cornell. Thank you, Madam Chair. So Jay, since we're on this section, you said this potential solution was discussed with the neighbors or you heard the neighbors concerned and this is the first time they're seeing it. We talked about it at our neighborhood workshop, and we kind of drew some sketches and that sort of thing, but we have not gotten together with the neighbors again after that initial meeting, because at the first meeting, all we did was hear the concerns. So we actually in the meeting drew some sketches and talked about it and said, this is the kind of the direction that we'll go. When was that first meeting, Jay? Gosh. Maybe a year ago. Has it been that long? It's been a very long time ago. I guess a couple, it's taken us a long time to get to this point, Commissioner Cornel. Okay, and have you had another meeting since that meeting? And another meeting with the neighbors? No, we haven't had another meeting with them. Okay, thank you. I asked you a turn here quick question. When we were asked about the quasi-judicial, what's the period? Because I did meet with some folks a year plus a go. What's the period of time? As long as if you know of an application that's coming before you and it's a quasi-judicial application, there isn't a set window of time. So if it's something that you're aware of, it would be something that you could disclose. Okay, I mean, I, well, just as an abundance of caution, I remember meeting with, I believe Susan Milberath and Dr. Joe Cauthan because I'm looking at the party memo, and I remember this, these live-oaks laid out, and so I did have that meeting, and we discussed mostly the scenic road. I also had that meeting, and it was prior to the application being officially filed, so it wasn't an active application at the time. OK, so if you need that disclosure, then that was that meeting. Can I ask a quick question? That separator is that essentially like almost like when you're on a road and there's like a, I don't know a divided highway kind of thing essentially? Well, I think you see separators, they can be as simple as a four foot wide concrete, you know, raised median. It's like a small median that's that precludes. It's not a like a it's not a wide thing. It's not a landscaped thing or anything like that. It's just a correct, correct chair. If I may, Louis Diaz director of the development of Tantioca, you asked a question about another intersection that I have a directional roundabout. The only one that I can come off of the top of my head is the one on Deepo Road going to the PK Young. It has like a peanut size and it directs people away from turning directly into a PK Young. But so it could take many shapes. Again, that's part of the discussion that we could work with, but it works to come up with a creative design. Well, my only other question about that was going to be if a fire truck needed to quickly turn, they could go over that bump if they needed to, if it's just a concrete bump, not to jump in on your comment. Yeah. No, they can. But we would have to design the roundabout to make sure that they could make those movements. We'd have to do the auto turn analysis and design it so that they could... Okay. Sorry for all the interruptions. No, that's okay. Can you just put up the overall design of the development one last time for me. Okay. So you're saying the roundabout would allow them all the way up north to... Yeah, this... So up there, okay. And are there other connections on 143rd from the left? I don't believe there's anything on the left until you get up to 8,000 you. Okay. And so that would be the point where if they went up there they would get to the other roundabout and you could turn around and come back. Yeah. There is this road that was mentioned 12th and I believe there might be one more ninth a little private drive just up a little further. Those would be the only options to stop and turn around or whatever and I would also add because of your comment that since the design's not done it is possible that we could put more of a meeting with landscape on that separator it doesn't have to be the smallest you know a little concrete separator. The longer that separator is and the more it doesn't allow somebody to stop and make a little U-turn the better because people do what people do. You know what I mean? So the more we can encourage them to just move their way on up to eighth and take the major roadway connections the better. We agree. And again, it's not designed and we would have to work with your public works department to try to find the best solution there. So, and we understand that it, what I was talking about in terms of the traffic study, the traffic study isn't demanding that we do anything from a trip standpoint, but it is from an intersection safety and design and connection standpoint. It is something that we know we have to do. And it's the right thing to do for the neighborhood too. So, Mr. So, same question, Jay. Was there a discussion with Orlewis with the idea of eliminating access out on 15th and going up on road? Okay, instead. I'll go back to this design to answer that question. So this is kind of a main connection point throughout all of this Tioca South annex. It just doesn't seem appropriate to then kind of turn up here and come over here to this. It just seems like if we can do this properly, why not keep this connection the way that it is. It just would be pretty unusual to come up here and have everybody come here and then, oh wait, we got a turn and come up here to go out. And I just, I don't think that effectively, you're getting much more. Can you make a more? Because we'd have to do the same. We'd have to do the same. Around about to the north. Yes, I mean, that's what, you know, if somebody wants to preclude that, I mean, there's a way that they can do it no matter where we connect. I mean, they can just go up to the eighth avenue roundabout and come back down and go. Understood. From my perspective, people coming into the village center from Newberry Road, it moves them into the development of at least seven or eight blocks north of ever getting to the scenic road. So all of the traffic that's being coming from the north to the south into the village center of the annex would enter out of place north of the scenic road, which would prevent books from even getting to the scenic road unless they had a reason to get to the scenic road. So that would be from my perspective, I haven't heard from the neighbors or the parties, why they might prefer that. I guess if you had some more conversations with them, maybe you'd have some feedback about that. I understand why the developer wants it on the main thoroughfare, but you're creating the main thoroughfare right across the street from the scenic road. And that's why I would ask again, would the developer object to moving that round about the solution, which I like a lot, I think it's very creative to the north? Well, I will let Mr. Diaz answer that question when he comes. I mean, I do think about it. I mean, we're going to be here for a little bit, but that's just a question. And I think you're right that people will, as they come from the north, as they come south, and especially as they would go to. And by the way, we have a little name for the non-residential area for this project called Teoga Gardens. So I'll refer to it as Teoga Gardens. as Tioca Gardens, but as they enter Tioca Gardens, they still will use that northern connection. I mean, that still will be available to them. That will be there. That will be a new connection to 140thord Street. And so that will be the simplest, easiest way for the people that are entering there to go into the Tioca Gardens. But then people coming from down here or over here or whatever, they can exit this way and we have another point of connection instead of them having to go through that center. So that's the idea is to have multiple connections there, but just make sure that it's not being used to shoot across. And I'm not suggesting that your request shouldn't be answered and we will answer it, I'm just trying to make sure you understand our logic in that. Well, there's also, I'm sorry I'm going to jump in here because I'm a comment, but there's also the safety of the neighborhood. And if you are creating a commercial space where there's going to be in a pedestrian-friendly neighborhood, a lot of interaction between that commercial space and the neighbors on foot, you know, taking the main thoroughfare and routing it through that area isn't necessarily, I think, a good design idea. I love the idea of the round about creating a terminal vista for people driving and slowing down traffic on a main thorough fare before you, you know, have them make a hard ride or something into a commercial area that doesn't. From a design perspective that doesn't make sense to me but that's just that's me. Commissioner Prissy I'm sorry you had your line up. No that's okay I mean I guess in a way I kind of agree with you I worry about the traffic on K if that's like a smaller kind of you know side street then all of a sudden you've got a lot of traffic and pedestrian safety issues. But I think the separator works as long as it's really done right and not just a nod to the separator. But I guess my other question is, is the question of design? Because I think about Tioge that exists now. And it does such a great job of creating primary entrances and secondary entrances. And so I think to that end, to that end, like, if the primary entrance coming from the north is that northern entrance, that will be the one that people use. I mean, you can see what happens on Newberry Avenue. They all take that, you know, they all take the exit that's all the way over by where the design firm and all that is not the blue highway, like other side, because you have to kind of go down and you've turned around and you've drive through a parking lot to get to that front area. So when you're thinking about the design of the commercial area if it's kind of facing that northern entrance and people that want to come in come in in that way to get to parking or whatever other pieces I think it will really a lot of this is going to come down to how you all put this together for final. And I think there's a way to create that northern entrance to be the desirable entrance for the people coming from the north, the sort of non-residences that live in this area. And then obviously that conduit to the south would be the main conduit for the people who live in this area. But just a thought and a conversation. Thank you. Yeah. I think you've characterized it just right. I mean that's what we're thinking that's what we're hoping that's how we propose to prepare the design. It's also, you know, as you look at some of the the landscape that we're going to keep there in that village center or whatever we want to have these two areas a little separate and have a different feel and so yes, the larger connection coming from the east will have the multi-use path around it. It'll be a different character than, you know, the on-street parking and everything that will occur within the village center or the Tio Gagardin, so to speak. Jay, real quick. Is that road on the top? Is that 12th place? That's the private road with the buffer. Yes, right here. Yeah, so that's okay and that's a private road. That's a private road to serve these lots that are here right now. Unfortunately that road is on Luis's property. And so we are just setting it aside and saving the trees that are there and the plan is to leave it so that they can continue to have their private access to those lots. Right, we won't be building new roads through there that our traffic will go into there. That just didn't seem right with those folks and where their property is. Understood, thank you. All right, let's be on. OK, I will be close to wrapping up here. So I just kind of wanted to go through the recommendations and some of the things that we've heard. So as Ms. McClendon mentioned, the connection to 136th Street and 133rd Way will be required with our first subphase. We agree to that. And then the whole issue that you discussed at length about the right-away connection through the CMA. And just from our standpoint to make sure you understood where we were on that, we really weren't crazy about having a new road going through that conservation easement. It's already bisected by the GRU right away. You know, one of the things that we're doing with open space in Elatro County is trying to keep it contiguous and on the perimeter of our properties. And we're thinking that the lead property might have to do the same thing. And so they're going to be contiguous and their open space would match up with our open space and maybe we won't have a road through there but we did agree that the best compromise was to go ahead and set the right way through their give you know dedicate some right way so if there is a road that needs to go through there for whatever reason whatever county decision is made that that's the appropriate thing to do that that we would have that connection available. I think that's a smart thing to do. We would also agree with you that it would be great to have it within the utility right away, but I don't think G or U would agree with that. They are very against having roadways in their right ways. How about adjacent J? Yes. I mean, and that is something that we think would be best to kind of limit the connection there. We have to look at it with staff and with public works and make sure that we can make that work, but that would be ideal because we don't want to break up that. We're thinking of that as a natural area gardens. We have trails running through it. Mr. Diaz wants to name it after his father who many of you might have known Miguel Diaz who was one of the guys who started Tioga and he was gonna have you know it's gonna be a memorial to him and we really think that's gonna be a special space for the public to to go through that open space so We weren't crazy about another bisected road going through there, but yes, I think that's I think something like that is the best idea We understand that if it happens, it makes sense because then there's connectivity to the south and they would have connectivity to the north and we're in T&D principles are all about connectivity. It's just kind of a shame when the connectivity is through a conservation area. So that's great. But we agreed to the condition staff proposed it as the right way to address that issue. And so we agreed to the condition staff proposed it as the right way to address that issue. And so we agreed. Just wanted to make sure we're on board that we're in agreement with staff conditions. Commissioner Prissy? I didn't get addressed, so I'm just going to ask it quickly. The road A that kind of bisex the southern conservation management area and the north square conservation management area. I'm just wondering that I guess that block nine that's kind of stuck down into the conservation management areas that necessary to have that block completed that goes all the way around or could road age at serve block seven and the end of road A serve block nine and have it end at the conservation management area so that you wouldn't have so that there would be some flow between the two conservation management areas and reduce traffic conflict with wildlife crossing and things like that. Yeah, I know that Luis had a lot of conversation with our environmental consultant about that and I think he does want to address that with you. So I'll let him address that. I mean, I didn't know if that was because we required the block connections or if that was more of a necessity for flow within the development itself? Well, we certainly don't encourage cul-de-sacs with the links that are required. So dead ends don't work very well here, and the block perimeters are big part of things. But I understand you're concerned, but Luis does know that property very well. He's, you know, walked it a thousand times. I've done it once, so once or twice. But, so yeah, I think he's better to answer that question for you. And he's going to have a little presentation when I'm done, by the way, also. So you're welcome. So lastly, there was some comments that were made. There was conditions, the two conditions, and there were comments that were made about requiring conservation management plan, an easement that will be done. And then there were comments that were made about the, about requiring conservation management plan, an easement that will be done, and then there were special protection requirements for that 64-inch oak tree that was up by Road J. We also wanted to put on the record that we agree to those comments. If I'm not mistaken, I think staff mentioned the conditions but not necessarily these comments, but we're in agreement with all of the comments. And then lastly, we wanted to at least somewhat address some of the public comments that we had heard. I know you're going to hear from the public but I thought it would be a good idea for us to at least let you hear from us too. And what we tried to do is just summarize the categories of these comments that were provided to us. You know, Southwest 15th Avenue is a scenic road intended for local traffic and pedestrian enjoyment connecting road J to 15th Avenue. We come a traffic hazard is not acceptable. So we have talked a lot about this already. We do think that 15th Avenue is the appropriate connection but we think the truth lies in the design of that intersection and protecting them. We agree. We don't think that people from the Tio Gas South annex should not be allowed to use Southwest 15th Avenue. Let me make that clear. They have the right to use Southwest 15th Avenue. We don't want to make it easy for a bunch of them to just go use that if we can if we can make sure that happens. And so I think the design is really important. And we love that scene of growth, by the way. The second thing that we heard was that the infrastructure on a hundred and four to third street and a hundred and thirty six street cannot support the proposed development and the additional traffic volumes. We did do a traffic study that demonstrated that it can support the additional volume. And it also indicated that we needed with our impact that some improvements needed to be done. And so we are poised to do that improvement when we trip those thresholds. We'll add those roundabouts on 8th Avenue. There's two of them and we'll do the left turn line at 136th Street. And then there was another comment about the continuing permitting of developments contributing to a flooding issue in Elatrioro County approval of this development when we worsen the issue. I can tell you that, and I've said this at workshops and things that maybe you've heard me, that Alachro County has the most restrictive stormwater management ordinance that I know of anywhere in Florida. We are designing for 18 inches of rainfall over a 10-day period, and 11 inches of rainfall over 24-hour period. And even in this tremendous rain we had with Hurricane Debbie, we didn't quite reach those thresholds. And the town of Tioga has had very, very successful stormwater management. As a matter of fact, Luis and I were talking about one of our basins just the other day with all that rain that we had, and it didn't even meet the overflow. So we've had very much success. There's no flood plain. So I just, if you have any concerns about flooding, please talk to the Public Work Department. I don't think we have never had any flooding to speak of in town of Tioca. A buffer has been requested along the Northeast property corner, which in a bus, an existing farm operation. So as Ms. McClendon mentioned, when we are doing the perimeter lots and we're adjacent to larger lots, we're required to build significant lots. In Tioga, we call those estate lots. They're about approximately half an acre in size. They're really nice lots. They're done very well, very tastefully. We just don't know of any conflict that any of the Tioga residents have had with any of the adjacent properties. So we are complying with the county code and the county requirements for that. And then we also, I'd like to add, got some comments that are or we got some feedback from the public, this town of Tioca, the friendly safe neighborhood with many desirable amenities, including the Esplan and Town Center. Please approve the continued development of town of Tioca's South Annex. So we certainly agree with that. And with that, I will end our presentation. I did have a couple of concluding comments if you don't mind. I know the nights long I'll go quickly through this but this is a continuation of a very successful development. I think we have a lot of good will with what we've done over the last 30 years here. I think Luis has developed this property the right way. He tries to save trees. He does everything he can with these developments. One by one, lot by light, street by street to do the right thing. We conform to all the county T&D requirements and the ULDC staff suggested approval because of that. He does a true mixed use community. I think the Teogatown Center is an example of that. We plan for Teogavardans to be a very low impact non-residential village that will be complimentary to everything we're doing. He designs with common areas that are, you know, second to none in my idea that create this great pedestrian experience throughout the development. He is preserving natural features and canopy with his CMA. I think we mentioned today it's 15.6% of the development is in this EMA and that doesn't count any of the other common areas he's going to do throughout. We did the traffic study that and we agreed to install all the recommended improvements. We are here to address these public comments when you get them if you want to talk to us about those. So we just respectfully ask for your approval tonight. Thank you. Thank you, Jay. Any further comments from the board? All right. I did one quick question. This may be for Louise. On the estate lots, do you restrict the footprint of the house or the impervious surface on those lots at all? Because it would only require an accordance with the maximum floor ratio or whatever's in the code We don't have a special provision beyond our normal code beyond what's in the normal code, okay? If no more questions I'll turn it over to Luis. So let's see. Yeah, you're going to look at this one. Yep, you can just see it. You're OK's in the mouse to point. I'm awesome. Good evening again. My name is Wistias, Director of Development for Town of Teoga. I first want to acknowledge the presence of a lot of residents for Town of Teoga here. They're here to support our project, so I want to thank them all for showing up in this evening to support our project. Again, Tantioca was approved 30 years ago. It was a meeting that, because we have a new workshops before the requirement for neighborhood workshops, then no one showed up at that meeting. It's a little different tonight, but it was great to have it back then, back 30 years ago. The, again, some of the principles you are, guess, are aware of what we're designing here, the TND, to go in a way from the all design patterns of not connectivity, to create more traffic headaches, to a connected project that has mixed use, that's the goal that was back then, which was unique for us. But then there was hunger for change back then. But as they say, the pioneers were the ones with errors in their backs. Back then it was quite not the idea, so it was not used. You see the importance of connectivity, especially living here for a long time. You can realize that in 34th Street, 34th Street for me is where you start seeing going westward with this less connectivity and then going eastward, there's a lot of connectivity. And that's where there's not a lot of traffic problems when you go east of 34th Street because of the connectivity. And again, that's something that's important. But another thing that we did back then is also change the trend of community, just get a community of what's the choice of the development for our Lachor County and again we went, we bucked against the trend by creating a TND in our project. Again we were following the principles of neurovonism. One of my idols was John Nolan, who did Allen the Ellen Jackson Bill and the Venice. But we also used the principles of the new guys and they were promoting neurovonism like Andreas Duanney. But also we teamed up with Professor Bedek West, he's no longer with us. He helped us tremendously. Professor Berwick West was the guy who initiated the Planet Department at University of Florida, but he's also a little known for the fact that he defended the idea in the early 1970s to break up the campus of the University of Florida. We're gonna break it up because to fight against people organizing for protest, the Vietnam War, were going to break it up and create campuses all over and it would have been disaster if that was going to do. The Professor of Medicalist instrumental for doing that. He's the one that helped us with our project. But not only did we use the St. Indie Principle, we also use Randall Aaron's urban by the design principles that is the ask you what is it that you have in the land and to design around it. A lot of his ideas are basically what you use now for rural cluster design. So he's a great instigator for those kind of principles. And again, that's what we ask ourselves back when we started. What do we have? Back then, we had seaside, it was prominent. We didn't have a notion. So we asked ourselves what do we have? And the thing that we have was the old line of trees, the old farmers' fence lines, the old live-ows, there was the unique thing about our project. Again, we have a concern for natural features that additional neighborhood preference, that's the things that goals that we have, pedestrian connectivity, was also a big mix of house values and house choices, was very difficult back then because there was strong segregation of home values. You have to build, separate, 300,000 homes for a home, 100,000 homes, there'll have to have separate names and also mixed shoes that was on her to back then The again the challenge that we have is the location of trees Stonewater retention T&D features Utility locations and the market acceptance not only because people were not really aware of what was going on back then That's what we created our master plan that we are at the end of the master plan right now, but we're pretty proud of what we have achieved. We have been recognized nationally, but National Association of Home Builders, the Gold Smart Award, the first year that they created that award. Florida Realtors Association gave us the NB award, the environmental award that they give for the development and current environmental stewardship and also pedestrianism. Kipalachakani, beautiful, was a project of millennia that we got done. And believe it or not, we got a CD or Gainesville beautification award even though we're not in the CD or Gainesville certification award even though we're not in the city of Gainesville. We were original using a lot of rules that you have in the land development code now. We used them before the requirements. I mean, 20% open space, 20% three-versa-vation, the minimum five foot sidewalks and street trees planting strip is something that we implemented that is now a lot of the code and actually is this street section on the neighborhood I've been living more than 30 years in the dock bond here and nearby, a foot pedestrian pathway, and mixed-use town centers within a quarter mile radius of traffic calming devices. Again, we key to this kind of places to create a sense of place and we work it on creating community buildings, things like our little bridge that we have that was again, as what we recognize it was an element that was there was actually a mining pit for looking for phosphate at the turn of century. They abandoned it, but the trees grew in a nice way and we created a little bridge and created a lamenting out of it. We also did the community garden, which is very popular in an area one of our leaders so our community garden is here. But again, it's taken advantage of all those assets that we have and things like creating finger parks throughout the area and creating those moments which takes a lot of time and effort to create those opportunities for the sign in our area The one of the things that we tackle too is the the way the developers build retention ponds And we just create a big Volume just receive water that and that retention pond doesn't know what it is because always dry and wet and nothing can grow in it properly. And one of the things that we have done, nicely is creating sumps that attract the water, the typical rainfall for those areas that then nurture the type of trees that can grow there like super trees, but you have upper plains for to receive the water. When you do need that water, when you have a big storm, but again, creates opportunity for playing fields in the upper areas. And again, we have a lot of no-sumps of super trees love it in our development because of the care that we took to design in those projects, but also creating organic like look at those retention ponds. That's something that we're very proud of. The other thing that the trees also contribute is for the removal nutrients. It is one of the best way. I know we have this long discussion for us of runoff, but I think trees in some areas that one of the best ways to remove nutrients in an area. Again, we then create open fields for people to play when those retention funds are dry. The mixed values is one of those things. Again, there was difficult at the beginning to accept one. Nobody wanted to be the most expensive house, but you've got to create the opportunity. And it's a model that looks at works in Charleston, in New Orleans, and Charlottes, places like that. The old neighborhoods, it works really well. And you can create the same block, and you can have the big avenue house, but you turn the corner and there's different house choices. And then we can go further with that. Again, you can have cottages, have extra big houses. And then you can have, again, that this is the whole mixture of homes within the same blocks. And then you can go further than that by creating town homes for a sample. You so you bump the density, that's something that, again, people on the west side have to learn to like it because everybody wants to acre sites, and that's not for everybody, it eats up a lot of land. But again, you can go further by creating the mixed-use within the town center, you can have apartments as a housing choice, but also creates opportunity for residents to work in those town centers. Just recently, I was loving because I was seeing some of the people who work at the OEVENTAL and they're coming in uniform, living in Tiogan and walking to work. And those kind of things that you like, capturing that traffic, internal traffic that you have. Again, the unique thing, you've got to have the elements that create a neighborhood and porches are a big weapon for that. But alleyways, that's also the great way to remove that garage from the front elevation of the homes. And it creates, it makes a big difference when you don't have to cut your sidewalk so often with a driveway access. But if you cut that on that, it makes it for a different experience and what you feel. And again, we believe in doing, continuing doing that. Again, the magical features is what we realized it was our asset. This is a picture of what that S will not look like back in 1994. It's an old fence line that it was, again, with the farmers left the trees alone. And you guys asked why is it important for me that connection south with 15th Avenue and I'll get to that because this is, basically we have the same situation a south with 15th Avenue. That for us, it is an opportunity for us to create a connection with poor operations. With the tree service before it was, it was, it was, it was, it was mandated, but I have a cute story for example. We have a tree here, or is a tree, don't you can see that. On the random box, a little bit of that curb, but there's a tree that I remember by number, because it was tree number 20. Yeah, but 20 that way. Yeah, here. That guy right there. I remember being number 3, number 20, which is that guy right there. But when we first designed the road, and I went in the woods to look at the stakes to the service that had done, that tree was going to be in the middle of the roadway. Inside the trees were saving. Let's move the road to one side. So there's a lot of care that we do that. We try to do as much as we can to take advantage of it for me as an amenity to maintain the streets and It's and then people enjoy it. I think it's valued to the whole neighborhood Again, this sort of look of the espionage to the left the way was prior in the way after it was developed It's Again is the Again, it's the, keep this in mind, again, when we talk about self with 15th Avenue, because it's something that we want to maintain. And this is the best one on today, as it looks. And again, we like the fact that it's an amenity to this enjoy by its residents and non-residents. We love the fact that there's a lot of people who come here, parked our cars, get their dogs or get their jogging and they don't live in a residence but they enjoy our common areas. And we're very excited when we see that happening and the people actually like what we've done to the project. Again, we took advantage of all fence lines whenever we could in front of houses. And I got one of the best compliments when I had to parade at home. Some people are saying, I don't know about this neighborhood. Why is it feel differently? And it feels like an old neighborhood. And again, you save some trees and it will get that feel that you have. Again, that's the same old fence line in some other houses in Teoga. Then we also did the same for south with eighth Avenue, the connector road. It was a collaboration effort with the county that we were pretty proud of. That was what it looked like before we did the road, obviously. But again, we took great care of preserving those oak trees that were there and creating also a linear park for pedestrianism for the road next to it. And again it was a great linkage that was much necessary, East West to the county. Back then I had approached the county, an older, public work director about the county connection. And he said, well, we're not interested in doing that connection. And then the hurricanes in 2005 happen in New Vera was closed for several days. He's like, can we talk about that connection to Salvador? Let's have a new. So Salvador with the eighth avenue right now, that's what we have a pedestrian path, a foot pathway, that is beautiful. People come from all other areas to connect to it. And then we have a road right next to it. But that is something that we, there's exactly kind of thing that we like to do at that connection of Southway, 15th Avenue. It is an all line of trees that we think is ideal for that kind of feel. And we feel that we like to end the way we started. That's the connection that we want to feel like Tiooga is a full entity that was designed one particular way. This is our nursery. Victory's nurseries is where all of the streets that you see planted in Tiooga came from this nursery. And my partner in the tree farm is actually here, Eddie Bravo, he's our master of gardener. And again, it's a business, it's been in business for over 40 years. And Lachakowne and Cedar Gainesville are one of the biggest clients that come in by trees from us. So we have already a retail Location has been this is for 40 years over here. So it's not like we're creating a retail location. I don't know where we do have already two dryways in this area and and again some of the This is the sort of the name sake of the nursery. It's our big live books. There's a beautiful artwork. I think it's more beautiful than the other one mentioned on, as I was with 15. But it's something that we, the drawings that you see currently, are play-setting because we like to take the time to really think about how to best design this area and create proper care of these live folks there are there. So again, they're not, it's not settings known whatever you saw in the drawing. I mean, it's going to be some modification, but we've got to work in the field to really take care of what's the best choice for designing the area. So that's what we like to, when we come stand to develop that particular town center, the Colatillo Gardens, we're really going to take good care of looking at the streets. That is the road of South Wales 15th Avenue looking east. And that's again, that is that old fence line that goes from 143rd Street to going eastward. And we, we, I'm sorry, we're going to show you, well, for that. Again, that connection, we like to, this and all, slides are slightly different than one, just the improv, but it's very close. But that connection, we want to create that profession, sort of feel, and connecting for everybody to enjoy, and grab that line of trees that is assisting in there and do something with that is memorable for it. Commissioner Courne? Well, so thank you for kind of getting us to where we are here. So I've always known Tioca as the spine when you come in often very well are the trees on what would be 15th are they the same types of trees down that there's no it's an old fence lines that is the runs right there and do they start on a hundred and forty third correct correct but thank you again one of the things that happens are the intersection over many times, again, my mom lists right across directly south of our tree farm. And her fence has been taken out many times by cars running through it. This is our neighbor across the street, which is recently had somebody plow right through his entrance. So there's a bit of safety issue that is that intersection even if we don't connect there you're going to have you're going to continue to have problems of that intersection. And again the we understand the the plight of the people on south-west, you think Avenue again we are big fans of shaded roadway connections. But we basically won what they have. We won a protected tree line with a street near that. The spite of us happening here, I know that unfortunately, a gross and logic county is gonna happen. One of the things that I put my thinking cap, thinking if I was an owner there, I would probably like to get together with all the other owners and maybe create another pedestrian pathway on the southern side or something to prevent to create, come up with creative ways to make it safer for pedestrians. I know that the people slow down and everybody has to pull up to one side, which is great. I think that what I found is the locals that know every turn of those trees are the ones from faster in there because they know every pothole in every turn. But maybe creating a pathway for auditions on one side of the other might be a solution for some of them. But what we're suggesting, like Jane mentioned, a directional brand about is a great fix for that problem. But because other ones, if we don't have the access there, it would be a shame because there will be the back of a building or the back of something that those oak trees are going to be. It's not going to be the nice pedestrian pathway, which again, I implore you to be, it's not going to be the nice pedestrian pathway which again I implore you to think about it because if you think about it, if you move my entrance to the north, it's in your concern that it's traffic, you're still going to have the traffic, but if we have the connection that has direction, a little force people to go north, you will alleviate a lot of that issue, but I don't think anybody will think that because you move it to the North is going to magically create less traffic. I just don't see the logic behind that. So again, thank you very much. Thank you, Louise. And I want to take a second to say that one more thing sorry I forgot on one of the comments from Bonne Bay farm that we spend over a hundred seventy five thousand dollars on landscaping a retention pond to the north of them and it's not beautiful there's one of most beautiful retention ponds that we did to the northern side of them. Jay mentioned that we have a plan of big lots, a buffer for that side. The gentleman owns the farm, requested for us to do a retention pond. It doesn't work engineer-wise. We already did a retention pond. We have to work with what, the topography that we have there in this impossible for us to do, other retention pond as he requested us. Unfortunately. Thank you. So that makes total sense. I want to thank you for being an example for the rest of the developers in this county. I'm a new urbanist, so everything you say just makes me smile because it's what good design is in my mind. And you say the things I ask other developers. And I truly do appreciate the thought and the artistry that go into your development and I You know, I show it off to people who may come to town So thank you for that. We do have 17 acres in East Gainesville That we're looking at it. One maybe side or a bit. 13, sorry, 13 acres. But I am messing with it. I'm having scarced a bit for trying to valve stuff on these. That's a quick question. Oh sure, sure. A police. 143rd street south. That public road does it turn into private road. That's a private road. So it's private and in front of your moms. Correct. Okay, and so it's, but it's okay, that's the white sign, but to the north it's public. Correct. Got it. Thank you. Mr. Prisya also has a question. Yeah, I was just wondering if you could address the block, like the block ending at road B instead of road A for the conservation management area connection and if that was a us decision or a you decision. When we did the study that area was not part of the specific ecosystem, like there was not contributing that way. It was more of a personal thing. It was, happens to be a little sand hill. So when you go there, it's something unique about it because there's not a lot of laurels and other things growing like crazy and growing everything. You see like liking and other things. It's kind of a spot that we look to camp out there. So it was more of a personal issue to preserve it. But it's really a sand scrub, oaks that grow there. But according to our, our, uh, uh, Pihu also was, was our consultant for, for ground-tooting oil area. He said, well, that's, there's nothing unique about it. But the thing was unique about the southern part is that when you look at all the areas, they never, the farmers, going back to the forties, never touched that area. They grew watermelon corn, everything they plowed, plow, plow, but that area was left alone. So the chance of having an understory that they can actually be brought back, it will require probably some control burn and some well-management to bring it back to what it would have been like. So that's the plan for us to try to bring it back. And Jay mentioned it was named after my father, but I had to add my mother to back as a mom and dad it gonna have to be included as the name of our forest. Thank you Louise. All right. So if we have no further comments from the days will now take public comment. Oh, the other parties. Sorry. Other affected parties, sorry, always forget that. Any other parties want to have a vote? Yes. So, yes. Good afternoon and thank you for the opportunity. I particularly like the sentiments of the chair. An elegant solution has already been offered. So I'm going to shorten mine down. I'd like to show you why we were here. We talked about beautiful oaks and preserving out harbor heritage and all you need to do is stare at this for a moment and see what will happen if you funnel additional traffic. That is the unspoiled entrance. Second point I'd like to make is the Hagen study attributes zero average daily trips down south of 15th. A little bit difficult to understand if you drive out there and see it's more than zero coming at you and pushing you over from one and a half lanes onto the crumbling side parts of that as well. So I would immediately ask that we consider a additional study of the average daily trips for south of 15th. Zero is not an acceptable analysis. Second, I want you to look now at what happens to ancient trees that are subjected to collisions, some from speeding teenagers, some from big trucks. You have to go out and stop the watermelon trucks, read converted to Lachor County buses. You have to ask them to slow down and not use the road because they're wide. So this is the tree damage you're seeing along southwest 15th. I'm asking you to remember what this de-ass said. He reveres trees. So do the people who live along to the 15th. Now I want you to look here at another slide, another plan that we were given, which initially showed there were connections to the south. Keep that in mind when you understand a 10-year plan is a good survey into the future. 10-year plan. Keep that in mind and now let's look and see if you can see a bigger perspective here. Here is the subject property. Here is Southwest 15th going west, 143 going north, 136 going north and south. Call your attention to the next adjacent property. This is Lee property, 2,500 acres. Another portion of Lee property, 1,260 acres, if you're reading the numbers, that is in the future because it's adjacent to the South annex of Tioga and they are already provisions being made or visions being imagined about connector roads here. I'll share you that in a moment. Now let's go to the July 23rd, 2024 drawing which now has been modified in our favor. The roads that were going south to the Lee property are not shown. In fact, we have good news that this is a conservation area. But I want you to look at road J. The famous road J goes all the way across and Inter-Sexress 143 North. There is good news however. With this comes the solution. Reoriented to drawing so you can stay going north south on 143 west on 15th Avenue and you can see this as the exit point from the Teogasalv annex right here. This is the hub of all the traffic that exits on the south side. There have been suggestions that this is a possibility. The developer has discussed that as far back as December 23 when we had the neighborhood meeting. Jay Brown and I talked about it. I sent Jay Brown a crude little drawing. It was about as appropriate. It's Jay Brown sending me a crude little drawing on how to do an operation. But I tried it anyway. He gave it the same attention that I would have expected. If he had sent me, how to do surgery. It didn't appeal to him. So let's go one more step here and I'll just say if we can get the Hagen people to come back and acknowledge yes there are a few cars to go down that south was 15th and the study is invalid if it denies the facts. If there is no traffic, zero ADT is an acceptable finding. But if there is any traffic, it should say one or two ADTs per day, at least, to be honest. So I would request that the board consider another traffic study. And there's more. I'm going to stop now and ask if there's questions from the board or from the audience. And I would endeavor to answer to the best of my ability with isn't very much. All right, Dr. Couthon. We can't take questions from the audience due to our process, but I do have a question from Commissioner Cornell. Thank you, Madam Chair. Dr. Carlton, thanks for being here. And I believe it was you that provided the map of all of those live-oaks on 15th. Which actually it was Jay who's going to speak in a minute. Okay, Jay, yeah. It was an amazing map and some of the most amazing trees in our county. And it makes sense that they continue into Mr. Diaz's property because I'm so familiar with the spine of Teoga and the history of that development. My question for you, doctor, is are you satisfied with the proposed roundabout at 15th with the extensions that would drive any traffic coming out of the south annex to the north. Very, very encouraged by the idea of diverting traffic to the north and preventing traffic to the west. Very concerned that we take the eloquent design recognized by the chair and move it north. You would rather us not do that. No, no. We take the roundabout and move it 600 feet to the north. And we have some potential drawings, probably as useful to Jay as I alluded, but we have some potential drawings probably as useful to Jay as I alluded but we have some potential drawings that show a curvy linear path that would have an exit that takes away the opportunity to go straight west on southwest 15 if we can't have that then we would be satisfied with around about that, the intersection of 143. So there is more to more planning to be done. Thank you, Dr. Your solution that you just talked about, wouldn't that remove more trees? If we moved north it it would be on the Tioga property. It would not remove trees. It would be through their commercial area. Yeah, it would be. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We have located a drive north on 143. That would accommodate the option to do a U-turn. You cannot bring the leg of a roundabout into a common road. You've got to bring it into intersection or something near that. So there is an opportunity 600 feet to the north. at least that could be considered. All right, but you're okay with the roundabout if that doesn't work out. Very much in favor, and I'd like to say that I endorse all of the accolades that have been given to Lewis D.S. and to Jay Brown. They are highly respected professionals, no criticism. And I think Tiogas and I exist is wonderful. What I'm concerned is what's going to happen to South of the 15th. And we understand that concern. Thank you very, very much. Thank you. All right. We'll hear from the next affected party that would like to speak. Yes. Thank you for hearing us and my name is Jay Fowler. And I noticed in Mr. Diaz's presentation, there were no photographs of the development south of Southwest Eighth Avenue because those houses are crammed right against each other. The roofs are almost touching and there is no alleyways or anything for that housing. And I'd like to add that I studied under Orient Vetterquist. He was my professor for my thesis and the work that he did on the first phase of Tioga is excellent. I think we all can agree to that. I mean it is very well planned out. But I'm afraid that this annex to the south, they're just going to put in as many houses as they can. And I can't imagine living in a house where your roof almost touches the house next to you and then they put up a privacy fence and what are you looking at but the back of a fence. So that's my criticism of the addition that they've added already. I like the proposed solution with the roundabout. If the roundabout could be moved, like Dr. Joe said, that would be great, where road K comes out. But if it couldn't be, then I would think that the roundabout, as you enter it from J Road, and you go around at that berm that you were talking about, would extend a fairly good distance. And then I think that would prevent a lot of the traffic dumping out of the 500 houses that you're gonna have there. So, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thank you, Dr. Mr. Fowler. All right. Next affected party that would like to speak. I'm going to put it on the table. That's good. I don't. You're kind of close. That's better. Good evening. Thank you very much. My name is Jeff Price. I'm a budding homeowner the upper right hand corner I'm the person that Lewis said The person that's button-bay farm We own horses we have two properties there right on the edge and One has an eight horse barn the other has a four horse barn and right now to the North of us This is us here and know that is That's from 10 12 years ago that lady doesn't live there we do but That's from, I don't know, 10, 12 years ago that lady doesn't live there, we do. But up here on top, and we also own the property here, there is a retention pond there. And it's a very nice retention pond. And Lewis is right. They did spend a lot of money and put a great retention pond in. The reason that came about is his father and I discussed it and he asked, could I move the 50 foot buffer, which is what it was supposed to be for agricultural to five foot? I'm like, no, I don't know, you're going to have horses there and people, little kids, especially just love to stick their hand over their feet, carrots and things like that, horses and horses just loved to nibble. Well, fingers look like carrots to a horse. So it's kind of dangerous in some ways, and we try to stop that, try to educate the kids too. But we came up with a better solution, which was, his dad said, well, how about if I put that five acre retention pond to the north of you? I think you don't have to worry about it. Great idea. I won't oppose your going from 50 foot down to five foot and the commission at the time went, well, that's a change in the zoning, but since the I wrote a letter saying, we don't object and of course you guys said, not you, but your predecessor said, there's no objection. So sure, go ahead. That also allowed him to put in about, he told me seven more places, which is a little bit more money that you make, but that's way development works. I am a construction attorney. I deal with construction all the time, and I like construction. I like development and TioGa does look nice. Don't get me wrong. And this is not a not in my backyard thing but what I'm worried about is that a lot of work has been gone into the buffer with a fence 50 foot over here on the left and the road and everything like that but me and my neighbors here, what's the setback? I can't find the setback. Five foot, 15 foot, 30 foot? I don't know. Is there going to be a fence there? A privacy fence. Some kind of opag barrier, because I don't want a little kids going through there. Right now we have basic course fencing. So at the one and only meeting that we had, I brought this up and I said, can't you just move one of the five retention ponds into that area there, then you'll have a connection between one retention pond and another retention pond. One of the things that one of the commissioners here said was you've got a lot of green space that's kind of separated, they're just islands. Well, this would connect one green space, one retention pond over to another one, and we do have a lot of deer and go for tortoises and things like that that run through there. Seems like that would be an elegant solution. And I was told that's impossible, not why it was impossible. Since that time, I've been able to look at the geotech reports and from a geotech standpoint. I don't know why it's impossible. But you heard there's no flooding problems there. So I'd like you to ask the staff to look into why is it impossible to put a retention pond there since you have five already. But on another hand, if you have four other green space areas, why can't there be more green space between existing homes and this development. I've heard, well, Tioga's been there for 40 years. Well, I've been there for 23 years. There was nothing there at all. I'm happy to have it there and Tioga's a nice place. We go there and eat and have a nice time. But I would like to retain the kind of peacefulness. Right now with the southern part that went in, we've put in a lot of plantings and things so that we don't have to have all that light, which also bothers the horse. And when you put in a lot more houses there, you'll have lights on the back of those houses now they're gonna be What did you call it large Estate houses. I don't know what size of the state houses. I don't even know what setback is it's in the planning So I'd like that fleshed out a little I I'd like some kind of barrier something I'd like some kind of barrier, something there. It can be physical, it can be mental, I don't know what, but we were there. We like to keep the horses there, we like to keep the animals there and we don't want anybody hurt. Right now there's a lot of people that do come down from Tioga to our farm and stand at the fence and we're happy to have them. Happy to. Little kids are just, they're cool when they're around animals. No, life's a veterinarian. She loves it. And we hook them up the carts and ride around and everything like that. It's great. But I want it to be safe. And just putting up a sign that says, equines they can bite and they can kick. Ain't safe. And that's all. Otherwise, I have no problem. I hope everything gets sorted out on the Westhand side and everything like that. Lewis has been reasonable. Jay, my old firm used to rep, probably still does, represent Jay. Yeah. So everybody knows everybody. But one thing that Lewis likes, Lewis is good at doing what he wants to do. And he wants to do what he wants to do. And he has a vision to do what he wants to do. And he wants to do what he wants to do. And he has a vision to do what he wants to do. And that's great. And that's drive. I like that. But he did slip one time. He said, if you make me move my road, my entrance to the north should have said that. It's not your entrance. It's everybody's entrance. But that drive is what we need. We just need a little flexibility as all I'm asking for. That's all I have to say. Thank you, Mr. Price. Anyone have any questions for Mr. Price? I do. Mr. Cornel. Thank you, Mr. Price. So I'm just all map genius. So the retention upon that you're talking about, that you spoke to Luis's father about, is that? That's right there. Right there. Okay, I see. I see. And so that's 131st Street. No, no, 131st Street is, is, well, that's a hundred, yes. That's 131st Street right there. Are they both there? And 131st Street is also down. Okay, if I could, I got it. Yeah, if I could ask a question to the applicant, Louis, so when you say a state lots, are we happy? Are lots? What are we thinking? Happy a lot. And what is the staff now? Sorry. What are the setbacks? Between the happy car lots and those three parcels? Right. Man, I just re we reviewed that with the code. It's actually a 10 foot. We are set back for Standard outside the for this portion. 10 foot we are set back for standards outside the for this portion. 10 foot on a half acre. So Luis is there is there a number that you could increase that to the kind of or or put up a barrier. I mean I like the idea that the estate lots are going to be on that side that makes a lot of sense. Barriers you know if the neighbors like the barriers that can work out. On chair commissioners always do you again? that makes a lot of sense. Barriers, you know, if the neighbors like the barriers that can work out, but what? On Chair Commissioner Luiz Diaz again. We would gladly do, if you wanna do a 20 foot setback on the back of those lots, there'll be more insufficient setback. Yeah, I think that would end then. It would be doubled the requirement or no. Right, thank you. And then Mr. Price, on the backside of your lot and do you know on the two south lots owned by I guess it's Janice Gordon and Ratlifts are they here tonight? No. Under the Ratlifts? What are on the backside of those lots? I know all three I've talked to all of them. Okay, so he just doubled the setback offer from 10 to 20. What's on the backside of your farm and of those two lots? The backside, in other words, towards Teogh? Towards the proposed development, yeah. It trees. It's all trees right now. It's all trees, so there's a good buff. And are there trees on the lots? There are trees. There's a lot of roofing on the fence line, but trees, as well as all that. OK. Okay, sure, but there's a good buffer of so there would be a 20-foot buffer with trees and they have trees So that would provide a good buffer with that satisfactory. Well that would satisfy me as long as there's a fence there Because there's another part of taiogo where they did this at the very start and they've had a little troubles with them and they did put up a six-foot tall OPEG fence. If they're willing to put that buffer and put up that fence and maintain it, wood trees falling on it and things like that, I'm happy. Is it the intention to put trees on that side? Or do you have you decided that yet? Right now, you have most of those lots always build offense. They do it automatically. There's a lot of trees in there, so we've got to be careful about the nomically sure that we're not creating a landscape buffer. We're just saying, I set back for buildings. If we're getting a buffer, those are very, the county has that history of maintaining it or keeping up with any kind of landscape buffer because it's very difficult to go back and police those kinds of things. So, if you'll think about between what I'm thinking between Bill Moore and Oakmont, Bill Moore has big lots. Oakmont has those big lots, and I believe it's a staff maybe able to help us, but I believe it's a 45 foot and many of those houses fence those backyards. So could they, I guess they could fence into the setback, they would just have to stay on their property, or were they fence to the setback? I will still fence mine because they have to, because you have horses. I'm just saying on the other side on on Lewis's property. I believe he should have a fence there to delineate his property also. Understood. Okay. I'm satisfied with the additional buffer. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, thank you, Mr. Price. Thank you. I Right, do we have two more parties? Yeah, do we have an additional party that would like to speak? Yeah, we have three spoken. We have five parties, two additional parties that would like to speak. Are they giving up their opportunity to address the commission? Madam Chair, just the three that we've had her from, I have her responses from. I have not her responses from the other two since they initially requested it. So they may not be here. I gotcha. Okay. Do staff have any issues with the 20 foot set back and at all with the if it's fenced on both sides or anything like that. It's not in any terms. Okay. All right. Now we can hear from public comment. Oh, we got to get a motion on the four. Yeah, we got a motion on the floor. Sorry, I haven't seen it in a very long time. And I think it sounds to me like, I mean, we've heard pretty clearly about why we need, why Road J is an important conduit. And I hear loud and clear the interest in moving it, but I agree with Commissioner Alfred about the traffic, I also would hate that we cut down all the trees on the teogaside to protect trees on the other side. I much prefer an elegant solution that allows us to get everybody's benefit, both the neighbors on the teogaside and the neighbors on the 15th with that blockage. I would just ask that during the final development phases that you make sure that that break in the, that stops people from going to 15th Avenue be long enough to stop people from just doing a U-turn and that it be robust enough and sort of that it's not something that can hop over with a SUV. And so I would make a motion that we approve staff's recommendation with the addition of the blocked roundabout to preclude western round traffic on 15th and additional 10 foot buffer setback for a full 20 foot setback for the eastern side of the property of the estate lots and the additional conditions that staff recommended. All right. We have a motion on a second. I'm sure. Could I ask the maker of the motion to add one thing to your point is, um, could we put the recommendation up? That Leslie, could you put the recommendation up? So after the first sentence that we ask that that location, if possible, be adjacent to the GRU right away. Oh, yes. Yeah. And that any road through a consideration? Number two, be adjacent. Yeah, if possible be adjacent to the jury right away? Oh yes. Yeah. And that any road through a consideration? Number two, be adjacent. Yeah, if possible. And yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Have you drawn another proposed option with the entrance coming off of K or no? No. Okay. I mean, I tend to agree with you. I could see, I don't know the trees like you do, Louie, so I could really see a beautiful entrance coming in off of that road with trees on the right and then hitting that spine. But I'm going to have to rely on you that what's the best entrance on that if you're dealing with the traffic. So see if we're in the public. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. So we'll now take public comment. You have three minutes to speak to the motion. So thank you for coming. Oh, okay. And we do have two different podiums. So in to move things along faster, we could line up at each podium and have like the next speaker ready to go. So, okay. Okay, thank you. My name is Steve Provost. I'm a resident of Teoga in the first phase. I've been there five years. I lived there five years. I certainly, I know Louis and I know Jay, and I'm certainly very happy with the development, many features of it. They're doing a really good job. And I generally have no problem with this. And I'm a resident there. I just, a few things that we haven't talked about that. I don't understand, and I did talk with her a little bit about this, is if you look at this little plan here, which is the same one, maybe you could throw up that development plan on there. You see that what I have in red are some, they're called common areas along and it looks like they're between the block and the property along a lot of these streets. Well as a homeowner, you know, ultimately Jay is not going to be involved and Louise not going to be involved here. The people that maintain this are going to be one of three people. A homeowner, a homeowner association, or the counties in the case of the public lands in there. So we've got a lot of area that looks like their common areas that ultimately are going to fall to the homeowner association to pay for the maintenance of which ultimately comes in our monthly bill or quarterly bill. However we do it. I will say we know that we've got a very reasonable homeowner association fee. I would agree with that and I don't want to see anything. So I don't understand what these are. And so I think that's a real concern to me for anything that's in a common area that ultimately requires maintenance, ultimately falls on the back of the Homeowner Association down the road. So that's one concern that I have. The other concern, I think the honest truth of the matter is if people live in this area and they have friends that live east of west of this area, they're going to go there and they're going to go on 15. You can't avoid that. So I think the solution that they propose with the roundabout there, extending it, that's fine. I think the truth of the matter is it's not gonna reduce the traffic on southwest 15. They can't get there conveniently, they'll come out and eat in turn. Do people do that? I will tell you, I do that because my daughter lives off of 170. So we're back and forth on Southwest all the time. We don't drive it at night, but we drive it in the day. So those are, so I think that's a good solution to it. I would also just say that I would not extend the road south of it where in the GRU right away. Doesn't GRU at the southbound, doesn't that, their poles turning go east there at the property line? So GRU right away doesn't continue south, does it? No. So you're into that conservation. I don't think you want to do anything that would encourage that a connection at that point. So I would take that out. I would not put that in at all. GRU right away goes there, but I wouldn't put the public right away in there. All right. My up in my three minutes are up. Yes, sir. What was your name again? I'm sorry to. Oh, I'm Steve Provost. Steve Provost. See, Provost, okay, I didn't catch your last name. All right, thank you, Steve. Perfect. Okay. All right, next comment? Hi, Amber Beckham. I live on Southwest 15th Avenue, and I work in San Diego. So I am a daily commuter on Southwest 15th Avenue. Drive regularly, but I also walk, ride my bike regularly on Southwest 15th Avenue. It is a beautiful road, one of the reasons why I bought out there and live out there. And it does need to be preserved, but I see some dangers out there that I see that the roundabout on Jay that the developer in Tanatioga is proposing would actually help. And one of them is the sidewalk that he's introducing closer to Southwest 15th. Because Southwest 15th is so beautiful, you have a lot of people walking and riding bikes on it. Any time of the day you go out there, you are going to see dogs, baby carriages. It is beautiful. Everybody wants to walk on it, but it is dangerous because they are walking in the road. So the sooner a sidewalk gets to Southwest 15th, the better. Because that's going to open up an area to get them off of that road. Right now they have to go turn and walk up 143rd where there's no sidewalks either. So this will get this that pedestrian traffic off of 15th southwest 15th into a safe area. So that is a huge plus. Another problem I see is the homeowners that live on southwest 15th they complain about some of the larger trucks in there. Every once in a while, there are trucks in there. But what I have noticed by being on the road so much is that those trucks lots of times are there by accident. They don't want to be there. It is not an area for big semi-trucks. And lots of times, they've just gotten too far and can't do that. They start going forward. So if they come down 143rd Street, and they can see, oh, I don't want to go right now, they can go around this roundabout, turn around and go out. It'll take that traffic of those bigger trucks that get stuck on that road. So that's another plus. I had a third one. I identify with that. Oh, the accident that he showed you were that the car ran through. That is a pretty dangerous area right there. And it does not have a lot of traffic, but it is. People just don't stop at that stop sign because it's just not a clear defined area. What he is going to put in there as the roundabout will stop a lot of that. A lot of that blowing through that intersection. So it's, when you look at it from a safety concern, it'll pull a lot of the traffic that does not one end up on 15th off. It gets pedestrians out of the danger area. And it just helps all the way around. All right. Thank you, Ms. Beckham. Okay. My name is John Cousins and we live in Teoga. Our family accounts for 10 homes in Teoga. A couple cars. And yes, some cars too. But Amber made a very good point about the roundabouts and the Esplanade is definitely a must in the new section. I mean, when I can go out and jog in the 85 degree weather under the trees, the canopy in the Esplanade, and look how hot it's been this summer. So I learned that if the espionade is approved, which I hope it is, it already has the tree canopy where it's going. So I see people from the other side of Newberry Road walking their dogs and just jogging and just enjoying it. I know a lot of the people. So I'm definitely in favor of Louise's proposal. And I'm sure you, I was really impressed with the respect that you all have for the Debrose group. So thank you very much for allowing me to come and speak. My three minutes isn't even up. Thank you, Mr. Cousins. Thank you for this opportunity. My name is Greta Rice. I'm a past employee with Town of Tio, Galhouistia's. I'm here on behalf of just toot in his horn. I don't work for him right now. Work for him, like I said, for like 20, 22 years. I want to attest to his character. I know people that are against the growth of a community in Gainesville when you've had the luxury of not having people around you and everything that comes with that. I want to know that as one of his sales representatives, there's been many times when I wanted to speed him up. Get off, come on Luis, let's go, let's go. And he is so attentive to what he does in that community, not specifically for the dollar figure because we all know that developers are not always the deep pockets that people think they are, but he has a family pride and family ownership to how this turns out. And if anybody could look and see all the different avenues that he could have taken in the whole development of Tioga and taken shortcuts when possibly could have got approved, you would see that what he is going to do or can do with your permission with 15th, it will be superb. I remember one specific lot. I can't remember the number right now but it was my very first lot sale in Tioca back in 20 or 2000 and 2000. That's when it was and it had one big red oak tree in the middle of it and we couldn't sell it. It wasn't, I don't think, any restrictions because it was right in the middle of this gorgeous lot. And I had a buyer for it, contingent upon the removal of that tree. Louise would not let it go because he loved the tree and it enhanced the beauty of the community. Now, that tells you a little bit about the developer that we work for. That tells you a little bit about his family and the man. And these people that are really at a point of not being very happy with all that's going on, that man will take care of the opportunities that he has to make it a better opportunity in that area of Gainesville. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ms. Bryce. Good evening. My name is Andy Gray. I'm also a Teoga resident. So thank you, Madam Chair, and commissioners for allowing us to speak for just a couple of moments. I've been a resident of Teoga since 2006. I've retired to Gainesville. My daughter got her doctorate of chants. Now I take care of grandchildren. I'm in my second house at Teogas, which, Greta sold me my first. And I'm on the other side that some people think isn't very nice. But as you decrease in size, a smaller house is welcome. And that's what we did. Very briefly, when we came to Gainesville, we had learned about new urbanism. And I didn't understand it at all until I got engaged. And what I have seen is what the Debrose organization has done since 1994. I thought it was 96. I'm correcting my notes, is created the vision that over 30 communities in Florida used today. It is a welcoming community. It is a community that allows not just residents and people who like to run in the heat, like our friend, Mr. Cousins, to enjoy this tree-lined community. And I am so thankful that Louise has created that for us. One of the things that has amazed me is I have lived in many different places, different parts of the world, different parts of the United States. I've never seen a developer still engaged. I've listened to all the technical discussions there way over my head. I've been impressed with the clarity and the questioning. I don't have a lot to add to that except to say in 2006, when we moved here and bought our house at the top of the market, new retiree from a corporation, the market tanked. And we all know what the 2006-2008 was like. I saw Louise stay with this community engaged and there were thoughts, oh gosh, that biocommunities is going to kind of tank. My last assignment was in South Florida. I saw a lot of that which some of you probably had a personal experience. The thing that has impressed me the most is Louise Commitment. And when I had the honor or pleasure of being on the Association Board for many years, I saw the things Greta was referring to. Not only is Tioca a new urbanism prime example, but it's a community that truly is built for its residents. And so I encourage the approval of the expansion to allow more of our citizens to enjoy this kind of community. And by the way, I'm in that last section that has just been built. Chose that intentionally, knowing full well that it would be expanded. And I'm perfectly comfortable with having more neighbors in Teogra. So thank you. I got my red light. And we knew thank you for all you're doing. Appreciate it. Thank you. Mr. Gray. All right. Hello. Commissioner, thank you very much. My name is Tom Riley. My wife Trish and I. We live on 15th Avenue. The only way to get in and out of our little community is on to 15th Avenue. We work in the town of Tioga. So just like Amber, whose book, Lwagogo, it is a daily commute for us. And there's two things that I would say about Dusty Trails Road. My family and I, he's actually my family, also lives on 15th Avenue. We renamed it Leafy Lane. It's beautiful. We love it leafy lane. It's beautiful. We love it very Challenging to navigate as we also heard from Amber if you get a truck that goes down there of any size whatsoever Why died? I've been down like I say daily and I can't tell you how many times I've just seen an Amazon guy in a little truck With eyes wide open wondering what's gonna happen next because you have to move over to the side. One of you has to move. There's no other way. And so that reality, not to mention, there is a beautiful gigantic oak tree right in the middle of where this expanse is. And that in and of itself, you have to drive around it to get to where you're going. So there's a lot of calming aspects about the road in and of itself. Now, if you look at the entrances, then I love the pictures. Because if you look at the entrance on either side, your first thought is, that looks spooky. I don't think I want to go down there. So in and of itself, it's kind of unattractive to even want to go down there. When you do go down there is a little daunting and scared and navigate but it is beautiful. I would say you would go down it once. It's nice. And then continue. So I come back to the round about because that picture that Mr. Diaz showed, I remember that fateful morning. I was on my way to work and I looked, I was on 15th Avenue about to turn left on 140th third and somebody the night before must have been coming down there to high rate of speed and crashed into. Let me give some detail. If you notice that was brick part of the fence. Well, it was also there, but toppled over was a huge brick mailbox into the, I mean, it was knocked over, destroyed. The fence behind it was decimated. It was gone. And all the grass in front of it was totally torn up. Said, somebody must have been flying down here. Now here's the thing. As I'm driving down that road, the only people I see as of today are my neighbors. And so I see my neighbors. I think to myself, I wonder if that was a neighbor. I hope they're okay. I would love to see around about there. Very more safe to have that there. And Madam Chair, as you mentioned, I believe it's a perfect label to call it an eloquent solution. Excuse me. Elegant solution is what you said, right? Elegant solution is the perfect label for it because it is. Because if you see it, well, I got to go. If you see it on Google Maps, it's like, gee, I wonder if I'll go down there. Oh, sure, and easy to get there because of the elegant solution. If it was further north, it would be closer to where Lori and Oaky is right now. It would be more tempting to go ahead and turn around, check it out. Whereas if it stays where it's being proposed, I think that enough itself to hold packages in elegant solution. Thank you, Mr. Riley. Appreciate it. OK. Hello, Paula Davis. I live on Southwest 146, which is just a du- west of the intersection where the roundabouts proposed. I request that the track, like Dr. Cotton said, that the traffic study be redone for Southwest 15th. Example the other morning when I was trying to make a right just to go to publics. I set there waiting for 12 vehicles to pass in order to just, you know, go up to go to publics, which is about a mile away in the afternoons. Due to the increased traffic in the area already. I don't think Southwest 143rd kind of accommodate the 500 extra homes that's gonna be there. It's already in the afternoons. A challenge just to be able to get out onto Newberry Road from Southwest 143rd because a lot of people are to circumvent the traffic from Newberry Road. They're using Southwest Eighth Avenue the roundabout to come that way. And we're seeing more traffic where they're around about. They're taking Southwest 15th to exit 241 or Southwest 170th or go straight on to Newberry. So I commend them for suggesting the roundabout. It's just we need if they're going to do that. It would be helpful because I used to walk 15th. Used to walk the dogs right bicycles. In my right mind I wouldn't have been attempt to do it now because I would become, you know, an object of somebody's car. If they want to put the roundabout there and don't want to move it north, then could we at least have sidewalks on Southwest 143rd to make it safer to walk if we chose to walk or something at least to you know be more friendly to pedestrian traffic that do use it because I live one road over people now or coming to my private Lyme Rock Road. They're walking on it. They're bringing their dogs on it. They're bicycling on it. And so just in our community, we're seeing where between Laura Village and what's already in Jonesville coming onto our private roads just so they can walk and feel like they are not going to be in danger trying to go down 15th. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Davis. Appreciate your comments. All right. Any more public comment? This is your last chance. All right. Commissioner Prisya. I wondered if that, if the 143rd Street, what sidewalks are there, what we have. If that's in the trails and master plan, or if there's, I mean, I'm just interested to understand and if there is any plan in that common area right away to put sidewalks on the part that is the TOG development. Madam Chair, Jeff Hayes, Griff Management Director. So there is not a sidewalk on the east side of 143rd, really on either side of 143rd, south of the 8th Avenue roundabout. This development, when it builds, it's portion of 143rd would be required to build build a trail or a sidewalk At least on the east side and what we are undergoing or undertaking right now is a bicycle pedestrian master plan So we'll have a look. I don't know if we have a facility called out right now and in the comp plan for that section of a hundred and forty-third But we'll have a look through that master planning process to see if that gap can be completed. Great, thank you. Appreciate that. And then the other question was for the right away question, or the common area question. I guess I just wanted the applicant to have an opportunity to respond. There was somebody that I questioned about all the common areas around. And is this part of the same way? Is the first to go? Well, let's have a separate each away. really. Madam Chair, Jay Brun, I think there will be a new association if I'm not mistaken. Is that right, Louise? Sorry, Madam Chair, commissioners, I'll always do this. Right now the plan is to extend the current association. That could change if something happened. For example, if we lose control of association, obviously we will have to start with new, but the plan is to continue the current one. The mixed use town center will have its own separate entity to manage that. And as a potential to creating other housing opportunities that might have to create separate neighborhoods. So that's the possibility that that can be pockets of different things throughout. Those common areas that surround those are just roadway. Okay, just like the roads, they're great space along the sides of the road. Yeah, that's exactly right, Madam Chair. The common areas that are shown linearly along the roads, those are so that we can put multi-use paths adjacent to the roads where the tree lines are and that sort of thing. And yes, they are between the roads and the houses, but they are adjacent to the roads, so they're linear. And there are requirements in the code that you want to put multi-use paths close to those. So instead of just putting a five-foot sidewalk, we'll put an eight-foot multi-use path. And then they'll be tree-lined, and that's sort of thing. So that's what we're trying to accomplish again, more of the continuation of that Esplanade from the North and as it travels through. So yes, those look like they might interrupt the lots, but it's really just adjacent to the right way. And again, we don't have the driveways intersecting those at every lot either. Again, there are the signs, I get to meet that requirement of a footpath width, but to continue the style of the sign that we have, that we have a sort of nicer green way buffer to create a fetish and feel throughout that development. But it's gonna be owned by the association, those common areas get dedicated to the association. And if I can just add something to that, those types of amenities have been showed to increase property values for homeowners. So while there might be an additional cost, maybe for the homeowners association to maintain them, overall, it's an amenity that adds to the property value of the homeowner. Usually get compensated by the extra units that we're bringing anyways. Right exactly. Well I just wanted to take that moment to say thank you to Louise for being a great example of what a developer can be when they really try, when they put their heart and their mind into a project, it is rare. And I mean, rare that we have people come to a meeting to talk in favor of a development. Like that pretty much never happens. So just that alone is a testament to the commitment that you've made to the community. I'm proud to be able to represent Teoga and I just really thank you for the time and the commitment that you put into the work that you do for the community. Thank you. I'm gonna be bookmarking this whole meeting so that I can send it to the developers. All right, Commissioner Cornell. But you're saying that I couldn't agree with you more, Commissioner Pizzi. Louise, phase one. What's phase one? 250 units. Roundabout on eighth for 131 and 136, you build those and you have to build how much of the commercial, other non-residential? 17,000 of the 25,000, that's what I heard. And then roundabout two on 15th, which I have to say, you have you and Amber and the citizen comments have convinced me. I do believe that the 15th is the right place. Even though intuitively feels like, well, move it north, I think it's actually the opposite and Amber's testimony really hit home as to how thinking through that work. So my question is when is that because that could be a decade away? Like what are your plans on that? Because that is a and the reason I'm asking Louise is because my next and last question is how do you envision construction traffic working and where do you envision it coming in? Right now the thing that requirements have a trigger for density to once we cross, basically the power line that your U has there, once we get to maximizing that area with the east side is when we have to create those amenities. On the other side. So is that the end of the slowdown? So before we move progress towards the west. So that road J will probably be built in phase one. It just won't extend to the roundabout until phase two. That section on the east side of the power line, yes. As it goes westward, we can, we have to, for example, build a lift station and we have to engineer that and again, and we have to, when we put a road, we have to take advantage and put a sewer in the middle of roads and those kinds of things. So we have to work with the engineer and once we is phase one will be the units to 250 the beginning of Teoga Gardens at the name of it You'll build the road You'll build will you build road K? In phase one Not necessarily you'll fail on phase one, but we're again. We're working with I'm trying to understand how do you get the commercial non-residential 17,000 square feet. Currently already have retail happening there. I've already been doing some retail because I've been doing that for 40 years at that location. But again we want to enhance that, but it's going to be we want to do careful planning of that area and we want to rush it. We would know for see anything any close to the level of what the Teogat-Pant Center did because it's ludicrous to think that something like that would survive. All your construction traffic for phase 1s coming in on 131 and 136. Correct. Until we get towards the west. Got it. Okay. I understand. And so, commissioners, this roundabout that we've literally spent the whole night on is probably going to be built with we aren't here. I mean, which is fine, which is fine. I mean, yeah, that's right. I mean, we are jobs to think out into the future. No, that's right. But for those that live on 15th, that roundabout, it's not like starting tomorrow. That's days two, depending on 250 units sold. I mean, Tioge is probably one of the most popular because of what you've done in Lachua County, but that's always a way. And plenty of time to plan and develop and design. And I love the idea of bringing the sidewalk all the way. But we're not solving that corner to Tom's point. That corner is not getting solved. You know, probably why we're sitting up here. But it will eventually solve. You've convinced me. Thank you. I'm ready to split this. What? What do you say? I said I'd be talking like an old lady. Thank you. All right, it's for you. What? What did you say? I said, I'd be talking like an old lady. I just know it takes a long time to sell 250 units. And yeah, and put the infrastructure in. Great job. OK, you didn't want say anything else first. OK, we're ready to vote. All in favor of the motion, please signify by saying, I, I, any opposed like sign? Okay, we're ready to vote. All in favor of the motion. Please signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed, like sign? All right, congratulations. Thank you. That's job, guys. All right. We typically don't applaud in here, but I understand. Yeah. Yeah. All right. We are, we still have business to attend to everyone. So please, everyone, please keep it down. We still have business to attend to. So if you take your conversations outside, please, everyone. Hello. Yes, thank you. please take your conversations outside we still have more business okay thank you all all right all right I always forget the gavel is there it's been hit a lot of times. All right. We are now ready for county attorney comment. Do you have anything? We have no comments. Fabulous. Madam Manager. All right. I know we have some commissioner comments. Commissioner Prisya, we'll start with you tonight. Sure. Well, I know fellow other some commissioner comments. Commissioner Prisya, we'll start with you tonight. Sure. Well, I know fellow other, sounds like other colleagues have the same comment, but we've seen the ridiculous proposal from the state to put in hotels and golf courses and other infrastructure in our state parks. And I think I would like to ask that our commission write a letter to the state DEP, letting them know that we are not in support of that effort to develop our state parks. All right. We have motion in a second to write a letter to DEP opposing additional development of our state parks. Can I ask for some clarification on that? Some of the state parks wanted to build like six extra cabins, or ten extra cabins, whereas others wanted to put in pickle block courts, or golf courses, or other things like that. Is there, are we opposing all levels of development, or are we? Because I went through and I read all the whole plan. Yeah, I read the plan too. I mean, I guess my point would be, I don't think that our parks are meant to be active recreation areas that provide that high level of urban services like hotels, golf courses, and like tennis courts, a basketball courts, that sorts of thing. The state parks are natural areas, right and privatizing our public parks. I'm, you know, if they're going to put in a couple cabins and they have areas that are already impacted, they wouldn't be clearing natural area or habitat. That's great. That provides more access to our public to be able to use our parks if they want to add a couple of, you know, more camping areas, those sorts of things done with the consideration of the natural resources and the habitats that they're stewarding. That's different, but I think the proposals that are on the table right now are much more about to Commissioner Cranel's point, privatizing our parks, adding amenities that they would concession out and putting in the types of activities that tend to be in a more urbanized active recreation park versus a steep park that's about conservation and I mean, add to the public to use. Fine, that's how we're talking. Y'all are echoing the comments that I made to DEP when I'm on there. So I just wanted, because of that, I just wanted to make sure that the letter recognized exactly what we wanted to say. So I assume staff has heard that and can help drop that letter. I am good with that. So we have a motion in a second. Is there anyone for the public that like to speak to the motion, seeing none? All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed, like, slide? All right. Great. Great. OK, two more things like that. One is somebody brought it up today, but there is some movement and some push to work with the state to get and the feds to get reimbursement for community health workers and a new reimbursement program for local purchasing of local food from local farmers. So there is a group including our school board is assisting with asking the state to develop a program that would reimburse them for school meals that to get a 20% reimbursement per meal for the purchase of local food from local farms. And so I wanted to ask that we support both the community health worker reimbursement and the reimburseimbursable meals, efforts in Tallahassee with our lobbyists. Second. Okay. Motion to second. I totally support that. Any public comment to the motion? Seeing none, all in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed, like, sign? All right. Okay, and the last thing is our farmers market. So we're in the planning phases on interstaff, we're working hard on the planning phases for the site that is the fire training center, the fire tower, all of that, we had that conversation the other day. That site is the site of our farmers market. And right now, our staff are working hard to kind of figure out the puzzle, the jigsaw puzzle that is fitting everything onto that site. And I would just ask that we ask staff to please bring back about the jigsaw puzzle that is fitting everything on to that site. And I would just ask that we ask staff to please bring back that plan, that conceptual plan to us, once they've got that plan ready to go, so that we can ensure that the farmers market and all of our efforts for public safety are all getting the consideration and the space that they need. And we can have a conversation about that if not, so that we can figure out what we could do to make sure that there is enough room for everybody, or that we find another site for the farmer's market if for some reason there's not. So I just wanted to ask the staff to bring that back at a future meeting. Okay. Okay. Is that a motion, or do we need a motion for that? So I move that we have the conceptual plan for the farmers market site and fire training site be brought back to us before any further engineering plans or anything are done Motion a second any public comment seeing none all in favor of motion signify by saying aye All right wonderful. Oh, no, no, that's great. Those are all excellent things. For sure. Just one, nothing. Or no. Three informational items, no motions. So the first one was I wanted you all to make a note to read about the Florence settlement. I think that now that that settlement is done, we're able to kind of speak the folks and there are a number of folks who are approaching me and I think we need to kind of bring that back up and decide if anything there is for us to do because folks are ready for us to talk about it. So I would just ask that you read the settlement and then we have a future discussion about it. Second item, there's been a bunch of news out lately by about Williams Elementary School. And I don't know how the school board is gonna respond to that, but we may have to be getting involved because it's an old landfill site. And so hopefully staff is aware of that. I've already gotten one call from our Health Department Director. And if you haven't read that information, read up on that. It's coming to a meeting sometime soon. And on that, I think it's important for us. I mean, there's been some articles written and things like that, but we don't have all of the data and information. So if our staff could provide us with what data, because I know that there's been studies done there, They don't have all of the data and information. So if our staff could provide us with what data, because I know that there's been studies done there, there was a look at that landfill, it was closed, things have been done there, but not everything is done there. I would also love to have school board information. I know that they've done some things, there was some responses that I got when I called school board members about that, because I was appalled when I read that article and I couldn't believe, just a while back, that was even for real. But they sent me some information. That was just a general info, but we could get more information from them. So we sort of have the robust information if we're going to start having a dialogue about that. I just want to make sure we have all the backup. Yeah, I mean, I would ask if there's any objection. That staff hears that and starts pulling that information so that we can all get the same information from staff. Because I have heard that there might be the NAACP, might be doing some press on that and there's some movement about what's going to be done if anything. And I just want us to be up to speed on what's been done in the past so that we have the information to respond. And I'm curious too if any of that, what the date of the studies were because having been in the field of environmental analysis, it hasn't always been done in the same way over time or in the same way in different neighborhoods. Yeah, and I don't even know what question to ask it, and don't even know if we'll be asked to get involved, but I just want to put that on your radar. Yeah, thank you. Last thing I got a call from FAC today, and the executive board has decided that there was going to be a special election for the second VP, because John Meag's did not win his reelection. So that's getting vacated. So that election will be held on December 6th at the legislative conference in Hillsboro. I spoke to Ginger at our break. And right now, it looks like there will be five potential candidates including myself and so that letter that I said, I don't worry about it it's a long time. Yeah, probably needed soon because I need to send my paperwork in to qualify by October 25th. So just want to let you all know. That's it. Well, congratulations for having, yes, for having a- I have to run too. Yeah, I'm me running. Congratulations for having a moved up opportunity today, so very good. Yeah, well it's a shorter campaign. I like short. Will is the, yeah, it's a shorter campaign and quicker to president. He lost by 106 votes out of 10,000 and that's San mine. That's San man bit him in the butt. That's what happens. Anyway, okay. I have three congratulations on your victory. I don't know if we've had a meeting since then. Have we had a meeting? No. Yes, I want to congratulate you on your primary victory. Thank you. Thanks very much. I have three short things also. First, Mr. Johnson asks that he, since he often has things and tries to get the overhead, if he emailed in a short PowerPoint presentation in advance, would we allow him to show it? I believe we had that discussion previously and said yes but I did not remember so I'm asking you now what your thoughts are on that. So I don't know. I don't believe we have staff support to do public comment so I don't know. I didn't know. Yeah I believe he what I would say is he can yeah he can print that up and use it. Okay. Yeah I you know what I what I would say is that that I think he can print that up and use it. I knew he just dusted it, okay. Yeah, you know what I would say is that, that I think he can print it up and we can use it over it. But I'm holding it too. Yeah, I. I'm starting the clock. I mean, I think that's one of the things like we'll start the clock as soon as they get to the diast. And so I guess if we see that they have things I'm just going to hold off starting the clock until they get it up and it's visible and then we count there three minutes so they don't feel like they're having like freak I think they get like panic because they feel like they're using up their time. Yeah, so if we and maybe we can ask the clerk that if we can start the three minutes when they start speaking. Okay, that works easy enough. Okay, we'll tell him that. All right. I also thought at one point on the agenda, we were gonna note quasi-judicial items so that I don't get looked stupid. Because I do. I think that's just nice for the public as well. Is that something that we can do? Is note when an item is quasi-judicial on the agenda? It's not on here. Yes, Madam Chair, we were doing that. I don't know about on the evening agenda, because most of them are public events. Most of them are, yeah, I know. I just certainly will look at that. Yeah, and I think it's good for the public as well. So thank you. It's public hearing, but I think some public hearings are quasi-dacial and sub-indicates. Some are not. It's some of them. making the note that it is. Yeah, yeah. So actually does say that. Yeah. So my last thing to share is, and I wish I'd handed this out at the beginning of the meeting. And I may have given this to a couple of y'all, but we all got a big packet of well back with a bunch of letters and information from the jail with complaints. My intern took some time and made a summary of all of that whole packet into a very short thing. So I don't know if we need to pass one that way or not, but I thought it might be a useful thing to have and just basically a short list of the grievances and things that documented the, you know, in the letter. So I'll read it. Yeah, I just thought that would be a handy thing to have. And I believe that is all that I have. So thank you all. You're both brought up things that I had been planning to talk about. So thank you. All right, we'll call this meeting adjourned. Thank you. you