We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. We're going to be reporting. Well, I will close to order at 301. Welcome. It is the everyone. I'm kind of excited about this 3 p.m. start time. I might actually have dinner. And a special welcome to Kimberly and David who are from growth, our outside legal council will do more introductions during that introduction time. So all one thing, cobalt. Thank you. We call the world. Here, Gary. President. Here. The band here, Matt, Nate, and Tom. Seven presents here. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. Mary. an advantage of the agenda. Oh, I was going to follow up. You're going to get. Okay, thank you, then. Uh, seconder, all right. Thank you, Nathan. Um, um, we'll take a break at five o'clock. So our usual after two hours, we'll take a break. The meeting is still going and then we'll come back after that. We do have an adjustment, a recommended adjustment to the agenda. That is up in part of you here. So just as a little bit of background, there's a topic on form of payment, explain all of what that is when we get there. It sort of came up a little bit in the last minute. We had some discussions with Kimberly and David on last Friday and from that we decided we needed to sort of expand the agenda. I've been thisly putting together slides which I finished at 130 today. So and then we have some people who need to leave at various times. So what I'd like to ask is that we amend the agenda to move that item to be our first major item. So it'll be after we finish the minutes and introductions, but before we get into some of the investment things that's usually everything. So that motion is up here. We'll say I want number three. And number three. Okay. Yes. I'm going to put the camera for approved amendment, amendment the agenda order in place on number 19, annuity optional form, briefing after item number six, review, and approval address. By second. The motion has been moved. In second, I'll call the vote. Connie, yes. Eric. Yes. Her. Yes. the fan, yes, Matt, me, yes, and Sam, yes, thank you. For Joel, of course not, because I'm in here. All right. Oh, it's been a day. I think not as exciting as Dave, it's as he was describing it to me. It happens to everybody. It's not the only one. Yes. All right. Let's go ahead and introduce ourselves and Kimberly and David, when we get around to you, I'll ask you to, you know, spend a little bit more time getting some of your background. When we get around to you, so yes, Kimberly, he'll get to go first. All right, so I'm Connie Rydberg, appointed by the City Council, and I am the citizen of the foster. And chair. And chair, for now until the elections. Yeah, and I'm thinking to agree, I am appointed by a city manager and vice chair, momentary. I'm the parker from the Police Department. I'm Amanda Jackson, Comfort Pointee, Citizen of the Police Department. I'm Gary Fowler. I'm the City Hall employee selected, Trustee. Okay, I ask you to also say, I don't know if you guys said what your role is or where your title. Yeah, I see director. Sorry. Please vote on this side and the police vote for training. Thank you. I'm the acting director from city planning. I'm Mary and I with Mirager institutional, the investment consultant. I'm I'm Robert Morella, the CEO and the Petition Consultants. I'm Tripley Gold, I'm from Green Lover. So you want a little more background from me? I mean, I've been through, I think, it's 16 years now, more being a lot in the public land space. I'm David Levine, during the interview I was told I was talking. So I remember what she said. Yes. You mentioned practicing for 16 years, is that it? I know I'm practicing for 27 years, but I have been a group since it's been. And I want to remind people that in the last four track, I don't know the administrator's report, I did links to their bios. So if you want to get a deeper dive, we had it in the packet last February. And we need for real here. I'm just going to expand upon your comment, David, that it is true we asked him to be quiet for a while so that we hear from Kimberly from Kimberly, because we know that we will maybe need to talk to both of them. And so I wanted to hear from the other person that we would largely be talking to. I will have a stay silent. Yes, it will out. I believe in both great team members and we just sort of have this running joke for David right now. Yes. I am her home. I am Deputy Director of Operators and Public Works. I am an elected trustee. Tom Fall. I am also an council appointee who says it falls to church. And Megan DeSell and the talent acquisition manager in the Human Resources. And currently staff for the floor is on. Before I have Tony's speech, I am pleased that we're going to be introducing Tony and let her tell you a little bit about herself, but she's a little enjoying the City of Falls, a temporary contractor for administrative support, for risk management and pension plans, so she will be joining us in supporting staffing the retirement board, and she started at 130 today, and I just didn't want to fit your quarterly meeting, so we're like, oh, shit. About a little bit about yourself. Okay, look, it's a Tony. I come from a strong background of HR, especially with onboarding and more administrative tests. I've been doing it 10 years. And I'm excited to meet you. Great, no. We're very sorry. We have the employee of the HR department? Contractor. So we're a RANDSTAD staffing agent. Okay. Yes. So for a six month period based on council or current budgets, I'm glad to have Tony on board. And I'm sending Mr. Platter Administrator, 21 years with the city and also the city manager's office. All right, moving right along on line. We have Sharon Gibson. She's our director of HR, is that the right? Okay, thank you. And Karen Bawa, our director of Finance. I should ask everyone. Oh. And I know Karen you're off mic, but. Here I was like a home rep published you announce some sad news that we just learned of feels produced. But Karen is going back to California to do her financial wizardry there and it'll be a loss for us but great for her and she's it'll be July. So this will be her last Oh, this person, she ran downstairs, so... She's also here. Okay. I'm excited figured out how we keep you here and in California. Very sad that Karen will be leaving the city of false church, but her eight years with us have done amazing things on the financial side, the health of the city, and she's staying to July 2nd, so she'll get us to the start of the next fiscal year. Yes, it has been wonderful for key with all of you. Eight years have been very, very meaningful, and especially in the transformative phase of the city. It has meant a lot, so thank you, you don't. Yeah. I support Karen earlier. She told me when I dropped off the slides at one. and it has meant a lot. So thank you, don't forget. Thank you. Thank you for your time, Sarah. I support you. Here and earlier, she told me when I dropped off the slides at 130, so I've had a chance to do some of my reading on the video. And she's from California, yeah. Yeah, I'm here. So we had a nice chat. But I'm sure there'll be more time to like, you know, have public thank you's and everything but I was just saying on behalf of the board I've greatly appreciated all of your support and you know thrilled thinking through the various issues I think the plans are really in a good place and you you really helped us with that so that's good with the economy. Yes! That's who happens next. Yeah, from a better face with the economy. Yes. Let's see what happens next. Yeah, for a better French for the economy. Thank you all. All right. Thank you. All right. Petitions. You've received no petitions. 15 more minutes. I'll let you know anything else. I'm going to put in. Great. Minutes. I think any sorry any comments or. Ganges to the minutes. Here. the approval of the Federal. You're being through the five minutes. I've presented. A second. No, it's going to be approved in minutes. I've been moved and seconded. I'll call the vote on. Yes, area. Yes, your. Yes, my fan. Yes, Matt. Yes, me. Yes, and Tom.. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. be an open public meeting and then there'll be certain topics that we will move into a closed meeting for. So there are slides, in of you printouts, look at list. Which I will walk through with you. Again, just to finish these at 130 and this topic sort of came together on Friday. So I apologize that you did not get these in advance. There's a banner at the top where I mentioned that prepared this material in my role as the chair. I put that there to just clarify, I'm not presenting this as an actuary, that's just a professional disclosure if you will. We may not get through all of this today and it is complicated. So we'll see how far we can get. And we are and or we may get through all the materials, but decide that we need to have another meeting on this topic. And you can figure out when that has to happen. So, so starting in the top. So what we're going to be talking about is retiree forms of payment or the annuity option. So starting there, what is, what do I mean by forms of payment? To land the participants or when the employees are ready to retire, they get a form and that's to elect the form of payment. So what's the monthly benefit that they are going to take? So they have a formula that determines how the sort of the main benefit is calculated. But then retirees get to choose how that benefit payment is structured. And I've listed here two examples. So one option would be, we'll pay you this annuity for your lifetime. And when you pass away, the benefit stops. Let's one option that is put in front of retirees. Another option that's put in front of you when you retire is cable. It's called a qualified joint and 100% to survive a renewed that's about full. But what it means is it will be created for as long as you and your spouse are alive. So if the benefits $100, it's payable for as long a $100 a month. The $100 is payable for as long as you and your spouse are alive, once you both pass away, then the payment stops. Throughout the conversation today, I'm going to ignore the fact that fairs are full of, because that just makes it more complicated. So for now, just it's looking at it as sort of a fixed So those are just two options. Now the way the plan is structured, all the options put in front of retirees have the same value and I put value in quotes. It's really an actuarial value. But really the idea is, they should all be on the same value. Still for example, you know that the second option, this one that's payable over for as long as you and your spouse are alive, you can kind of see how that's expected or could be payable for a longer period of time than just for you the retiree. So what we do to make those equal value is we adjust them on the amount. So for example, the single life annuity, the one payable for as long as you're alive, might be a thousand dollars. To take into account that the other option is payable, or for as long as one of two people are alive. We reduce it like to $850. That's a pretty reasonable estimate of how the reduction would apply. So that's what the topic is for today. So what we're going to cover is what are the current options? Because that's just basically the background. What's our current state? Then we're going to look at what are some possible changes? And I use the abbreviation FOP form of payment. What are some changes we might make for future retirees only? So I want to be very clear about this. We are not making changes to current retirees. We will move people retiring in the future. These are possible changes for us to consider. I'm not saying we will or should I just some things to consider?, how did this come up? You don't have to go. Good question. So, as we were reviewing the plan documents, so one of the things we're working with Grumon is recating the plan documents. And so, as we went through that, we need to document more clearly what the forms of payment are. And we've gone from security and doing the administration to Segal. So we were having discussions with Segal as well about, okay, what are the forms of payment. And as we sort of dove into the details, we realized, oh, we need to clarify some things with with the retirement board. So are there too many options right now or too detailed, I guess, too many different kinds of detailed options? So I think there might be too many options, which is why there are two recommendations for considering eliminating two of those. There are some other issues that we'll discuss in close session. Okay. Um, for those of you who have been part of the conversations before this, um, you know, you won't know that there are other issues. And you know that those are the issues we are going to discuss in closed sessions so sort of keep your comments to the topics we have here. All right. Like I said, I think this is complicated stuff so we might need some future sessions on that. But with that, we'll just dive in. Next slide. So there there are nine different options when somebody retires, they mean they're married. I grew up in the three parts. One is a life annuity with varying number of payments that are guaranteed. And I'll explain what that means in a minute. The second, there are four of those. Then there's second bucket is refund annuities. Again, I'll explain what those are, there are two of them. And then it's joint with your spouse. And there are three of those options. Okay? So let me just go through the four that are the life annuities with very number of payments guaranteed. The first one is just a life annuity payable for your lifetime. Zero payments guaranteed. The amounts here are shown, So you go and calculate these for us. So I said, if the person's benefit was $1,000, that's the formula benefit. And the person was age 65. They were in the basic plan. What would the different benefit amounts be? Um, um, as same age when we start getting into the spousal options. So you can see here the different benefit amounts, but so going to the second option, life annuity, 60 payments guaranteed, in other words, five years guaranteed. I've put literally the description that's on the benefit election form here on the third column, but the short statement is it's payable for as long as you live, but we guarantee that no less than five years of payment or 60 payments. Okay. The third option is same thing but 120 payments guaranteed. So 10 years guaranteed. And then the last option in this sort of family of options, if you will, is 180 payments guaranteed, which is 15 years. So to try and explain this visually, I put together this breath. Here in the scenario, if someone lives for a hundred months in retirement, how will the pain and be? So if the retiree had elected a life annuity, well, it's available for their lifetime. So they would get 100 payments, and they would get 100 payments at the $1,033. The next option is the Lighting Pile with 60 payments guaranteed. So in this case, the person lived past the guarantee period. So they would similarly get the 100 payments. Their amount would be $1,000 and $25 a month. because they elected that sort of insurance or guarantee period at the beginning. They got a slightly lesser amount, but they still get the 100 payments. Now it gets more interesting. Life, annuity, 120 payment guarantee. So remember that the person lives for 100 months months. So that person, while they're alive, gets the 100 payments. But then the team over here, when the person passed away would say, oh, this person elected 120 payment guarantee, the only other 100. So the person would have elected a chosen a beneficiary when they retired. And that beneficiary would get the remaining 20 payments. And that could be a child, right? Not just spouse. That's a great question. Yeah, for that option, you can designate a beneficiary out of your respect. And that payment amount for those 120 payments would be $5,000. And then the last example is life annuity or 180 payments guarantee. Again, when the participant passed away after 100 payments of $958 a month. The team over here would pull out the paperwork and say, okay, you can spend a fishery gets 80 payments, exactly 81 payments. Does that make sense? Questions? I have a question. Yes, the zero payments guaranteed. That's if the I've got one here nobody got kids anymore. I think there's a drink there around with boy contributions and some other things. So I'm just going simplified here. Okay. You would get, I believe, at least your own void contributions return to you. So you're about the two bankroll shirts? That's a good question. Any other questions? Okay. Moving on to the next slide. So the top part of this slide is identical to what was on the prior slide. I'm just repeating it so you have the information up at the top. So one thing for the group to consider is should we eliminate one of these options. So it's a lot of options. I'm going to digress for a moment and just can we jump to the very last page? So the very last page shows that the panel's, yeah. When your retiree comes to, or just when it comes to retire, these are all the options that get laid out in front of them. So I've listed because the rest of the presentation has a basic plan amounts, I've listed the police plan amounts plan amounts, same deal, they're all of the same value. It's just that the police plan uses different mortality assumptions, assumptions about how long people live. But you can, so this is nine forms of payment and provided a brief description rather than the very lengthier one and maybe, you know, lengthier one that's in the election package. But it just gives you a sense, you know, as me who does this for a living, I'm like, oh yeah, you know, it makes sense. It could be a lot of options, you know, in the same way that we reduce the number of options in the savings plan. It's something to consider of should we reduce some of the options in this plan? So Connie. Yeah. What, why does it need? Why is there a need? Yeah, why is there? So it's not really as much of a need as just since we're taking the moment to restate the plan and rethink it about all these things. Is this something that we would want to do? People might not know yet and they want to think about it, but I just wanted to put it forth to. I'll open it up to the team here if you have any. Blocks, since you sit with retirees. That you told me. Well, I'll give you an extra day or two. I guess my thought behind that is, is it like an administrative burden? What's the reason? So I wouldn't call it an administrative burden, but it is a lot for retirees to start through. I've noticed that, personally, as I consult with retirees, preparing, or some of the preparing retirement, these are your nine options that are faced with, like, say CIO. So explaining the actual equivalency of it is important and we do it especially in the term retirement we give them the documentation from the special notice regarding distributions and how they that would affect their future payments. But it does get complicated for retirees to see these nine different options and then to try to be the future, like, well, what's going to happen to my family when I'm gone and what you want to and that's the decision they make. So I respect this. This is a typical for other plans of this size to have so many options. So that's practice would be to reduce perhaps reduce that so that it's simple wise things for a try racing, guessing the best options for them. Since then to add a little detail on the receiver. When people set up plans these days, there's usually two or three new types, like this, ops And I think parallel to investment options, we deal with them in different contributions side. It's very appropriate, because people just get confused, freeze, and don't select anything. So that is why it is a very good chunk compared to for our other governmental plans. I don't think we see this. I'm sure some of them haven't sort of theoretically, but even how they presented. There like here's the three or four. If you'd like to know other options, please let us know. We don't know if we see this. I would say that that's the primary driver is for our participants. The more we have, the more administratively we obviously have to track and so forth. So we will do what ever is adopted, but there is a parallel benefit to fewer administrative students. I would say my experience is there's maybe life annuity and one life annuity with a certain number of payments guaranteed. So having three different guarantee options is just a lot. The one intervention, so I asked Cindy, so I just selected the, I've put forth here eliminating this 60 payment guarantee one in part because the dollar amounts between the life annuity and the life annuity 60 payment guarantees is very small. You know, less than 1% difference, $8 in this example. And I would think that if someone was concerned about what happens if I pass away immediately, they might select a longer-fearity period. There was a society of actuary study and asked about what retirees look for and what in their form of payment selection and actually the longer 15 or 20 year, often was the one that seemed to be the most popular what they surveyed across many, many retirees. Again, as Cindy to poll, how many retirees do we have that have selected this? For the basic plan, there are three current retirees that have selected this option out of 282. So around 1%. 282 retirees as of our last valuation. So I'm sure it's too much to work. This point can go in for a private sector point, because there are rules about eliminating unutilized options. This would fit into an unutilized option in a private sector plan. That was kind of, I was probably getting ahead on myself, but sorry, I'm going to do a little bit of policy. No, no, no, no, I'm probably going to be further on the road. But what are the criteria? Are we going to come up with a criteria? What we're going to have? How we want to select them? Are we going to be one in the world? Or is there a take-out? It's a good question. Can I hold that for a second? No, no, just because I want to make sure I say what the stand is for the police land first. So for the police plan, it's two out of 39. So that's at five percent. And is this for the 60 months or just ten years? Just for the 60 months the air intune, right? That's part of you. It's only the what I'm saying, 2% of the sorry 5% of the police retirees, current retirees, so two people have elected this 60 payment guarantee option, the one that I've put forth as the one to potentially eliminate. I never asked you about how many are the other ones. The whole lot of data. Yeah, I asked you that last night. I will say I had assistance going through the census box. I appreciate it. So that is something that we, I think that that's a reasonable thing to think about what criteria do we want to use. All right, I want to just keep going forward. Is that okay? All right, next two options is the refund annuities. These I have seen before, these are relief walk. So here's how this one works. Act the time that you retire, the actuaries say, you'll benefit as worth a certain amount of money as of today. So for this particular example, the numbers in the second row in the third column, so it's $161,552. So this benefit that we're calculating for this person is worth $161,552 today as of your retirement date. We guarantee you that the total payments you receive over your lifetime will not be less than $161,552. If you pass away before you receive this amount of money in payments, your beneficiary will receive the balance as a lump sum when you pass away. So for example, if the total payments, she was a retiree, was $150,000 and then you pass away, your beneficiary would get the balance, which would be $11552 dollars as a lump sum. The installment refund option is similar, but instead of getting the remaining balance as a lump sum, it will continue as monthly payments until total monthly payments, You call the 161.5.2. To connect. continue as monthly payments until total monthly payments equal to 161.5.2. Um, what happens and this one if you live past the 161. It just continues for your laptop. So it's good question. So that's like a minimum guarantee, kind of like how the. The prior group had a minimum guarantee. This is just a different kind of minimum guarantee. That's a great question. It is the 161, is that just based on the lifetime maneuvering using actualary tables? So put together here a simple graphical of how this would work. I recognize it is really small. Maybe you can make it. What does it look like? I can shift to the right. I'm're not showing you. So the blue bar here, which is you can see is a little lower than the orange, which is the installment because it's a little more valuable to get any remaining payments as a long long-standing and just continuing from up to payments. But in this case the retiree lives for 144 payments. Then at that point they not received the full 161,552 dollars. So at that point the beneficiary receive a lump sum of about $23,000 in change. In the installment, auction, the payments would just continue. They would continue to the beneficiary and the last payment there would be a payment 166, a partial payment to get that person to the balance 161.5 by two. If the person lived, as you asked, if they lived longer than receiving 161.5 by two, it would just continue until they passed away. Yes. Question on the cash refund versus the install of refund. The difference is slight in install of refunds a little more. But with the cash refund is that kind of a lump sum and a huge tax hit. Versus install installments that so is that accounted for in any way or? I mean, it's accounted for not in the amount of payment that you get that taxes do on any payment from a pension plan is the participants responsibility and the participant should take that into account when they decide their from the payment. That makes sense. Yeah, I mean, I understand that. I'm just wondering whether they know that when they look at the comparison that's very close, but if you take the lump sum, then you're gonna get less money if things work out. So, in some cases, you can roll that one subject, about obviously in some cases you can roll an opportunity not already, any white taxes at that point, so there's so many of us to keep rolling. There's a lot of discussion here, in some cases you can with the taxes. So I think that's a good question. And as Megan was saying when she's meeting with the participant, providing this stuff, we provide education and information. We're not going to make any recommendations or advice from the participant. To talk to the Texan boys, we're in this most cool. Yeah, I'm just, you know, as an honest look at it, chartered, you know, to me, the other bar should be a lot more, just a text and whatever it might be. Okay, okay. Yeah, and I my is for some people, they look at it. You know, the other way to look at it is my beneficiary might have a bunch of costs that they have to deal with when I pass away. So I want them to get the lump sum. Sure. But yes, all of different kinds of things you'd want to think through. All right. Other questions on this, these two options. Okay. Again, the top here is just a repeat of what's on the prior slide. The consideration at the bottom, not a recommendation, the consideration is to eliminate, I don't have a strong feeling of whether we would eliminate the installment or the cash refund, but having both of these feels excessive. The installment is very similar to rejoining the, yeah, very similar. Yeah. I think having, and I know we just have the information on some of this. I think having the information on how many participants take advantage of all of these plans will help us with the, you know, with the, yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yeah, that was a lot of work. Yeah. As a known area, we're down that, you know, if we going to, you know, we have different criteria that should be a table. Yeah, you use a reference to one of them, but we could have a table next time we discuss this that shows you have utilization rates and then we quickly see what's what's being used. What's not real. So I do have that for these two. I'm saying that first because it's simpler. No one has elected. None of the current retirees have elected that option, either option for the basic plan. The cash refund is 13. 13 retirees. 13 retirees, so that's about 5% of... 13 13 retirees, so that's about 5% of all current retirees and For the installment it is six retirees, so that's about 2% of all retirees So at least at this point, the cash refund at 13 versus the installment at six, the cash refund is twice as popular. So this one I feel a little more strongly about as one member of the retirement board, just that having both seems like it's too much, but that's my one opinion is one retirement board member. Okay. Okay. Moving on to the third kind of annuity options. So there are three annuity options where there's a joint with your spouse. The first one is joint and 50% to survivor annuityuity and you can see the dollar amounts here. So the way this one is just, I'm just going to read it. So monthly payments are made to both participants and deserve our beneficiary while they are both living and after the first death are continued for 50% in this case that be $508 and that dollar amount is shown on the benefit election form. I'll give the original amount to the survivor, terminating with the last payment due prior to the death of the the survival. So while they're both living $133 went the first person passes away whether that's the retiree or the spouse, it is reduced to $508 per month. The economic theory would be, okay, when there's only one of us, instead of two of us, our costs go down. And in this case, it would go down by $500, you know, the payment would go down by $500, $80. So as a couple, you might decide that that makes sense for you. Oh, and I say, I have a title. It's not $518. Apologies. Oh, I'm just going to start from 16. Thank you. Thank you. All right, the next one is two thirds. So joined in 66 and two thirds, which was really joined in two thirds to survivor. So it's the same concept as above, but instead of 50% it goes to 2-3 and 5-16 goes to the 9-75s. And the 650 is correct. 650. Okay. So. So are both the retiree in the survivor of the spouse at the time? Yes, they are named into their name. So you can't change your survivor? No. No. So it's a separate way to survive a person who you never worked for in the city could which still get the money. 50% right? Yeah, 150% of course. Yeah, they had half of the city's 30th. Well, now we start getting into like, you know, divorce decrees along with all great stuff. So let's just go with a simple, yes, I thought where you're going was if if your spouse passed away and you got married, um, well, you could go there, kid, go there, I mean, I mean, I mean, we have a lot of ideas, had either things we want to face it. I like this. You know, let's say you select the joint in 50% of survivor, your spouse is the first to pass away, so it drops down to half the 516. If you re-marry, it will still stop when you pass away because it was based on the lifespan of the two people that were there when you actually retired. And then the last option, qualified joint and survived, qualified joint in 100% to survivor annuity. I mean, this is just payable for as long as at least one of you is a lot. So, um, one could just be put, This is the decision is made. These nine currently has made it. The time retirement can't be changed towards an decision is made. Yeah. Thanks. Um. So graphically. showing here a scenario where the first death occurs after payment 36 and second death occurs after payment 100. In other words, all payments stop at payment 100. This is a simplified example. Took a blue bar is the 50% version of this annuity, so it's the dollar amount starts higher than the other options, because there's a bigger drop in payment when the first step happens. Then the orange bar is the two thirds version of this annuity starts a little bit lower than the little option or the 50% option but then the reduction when the first person passes away is not nearly as steep. And then the third option is the 100% and this amount stays level. Even after the first step, it then ends after they both press away. So that's it for all sort of opens, that's it. I want to again point, especially from that, that the police plan amounts are here, so you can find see the relative amounts, the potential changes to consider for the open session. And you know, sounds maybe we want to get more information and perhaps we should talk about criteria would be do we want to reduce the number of options. I saw someone's hand go up. I don't know. So, I guess this is a grown so you mentioned earlier other plans. Well how many options on average do you see most planes? I mean I think I say probably three to five.. Okay. I have a question that can be different. Is warm sum not an option? The lump sum is not an option. It is much less common in public plans than in over plans. Other partners. This far. I have my head up, but I think it's going to be interesting. I was wondering what the purpose of the last line was. I mean, the talks about current. I guess that's going to be something else. What's the purpose of the last line? Yeah, in other words, the joint identity, and the spouse parent options. Was there. This is this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this? Yeah, in other words, the joint activity and the spouse print options. Was there? So this chart will be this. Oh, you don't need this one. You mean this? Yes. Yes, there is more to come. That's what I'm thinking. I was just twerking. This was the uptoucher. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the uptoucher. That's a good way of looking at it. So what is've gotten sort of one piece of data, which is like the three to five options is if you will, typical or best practice. And understanding the number of people who in each blend who have currently elected these different options. How many people currently elected the last three? The last three. I do not have that in front of me. Oh, no, I do. So up across the 50 and 75% no, sorry, 50 and 2, 3rds. Yeah, I think if you can find. So I don't have the 100%. So let me tell you, so the automatic form of payments, if you, it would be election form, doesn't have these, the automatic ones are the first two on the form. It's, if you're not married, the quote unquote automatic for a payment is the life annuity with 120 payment guarantee. The quote unquote automatic form if you are married is qualified joint and 100% to survivor annuity. 150? Not 50. The automatic is the 100. Yes, not not the same as like a corporate. So I add, Cindy, what how common are the other two? A new options. So I just have them combined, which is the 50% one and the 23rd one, three in the police plan. So that would be 10%. So giving you sort of comparisons, three have taken the, one of these, either the 50 or the 75% survivor annuity to have taken the five year certain non have taken the refund annuities. So that means 23 have either have taken one of the two automatic forms. Okay, for the basic plan, we have 12 people who have taken one of the, either the 50% or the 67% joint survivor or survivor annunities. Interestingly enough, that was less than 13 who have taken the cash refund and the six who have taken the basic, I mean, sorry, the installment and three of taken the five years to no less. I'm apologizing on you're getting these verbally instead of on a piece of paper. I'm doing. Oh, 19 plus 18. So that's 34 out of. 22. 22. 22. So 12% have taken some of the options. The other 88% have taken the automatic. So criteria would be three to five are sort of common. Want to get the on the right of you lined up sort of the numbers for each option. What other criteria is helpful as we think about potentially reducing the number of options? So it would be a question again to green. Is is any of our options like standouts is like not something you normally will see or something that's like, yeah, I don't really see this too much that we can maybe help us fully announce them. I do not see either the reason options very often. You see in public plans a lot, the return has been a number of businesses that have been used up in the benefit of that separate that's not benefit for me at the tunes. So the refunds are the ones that I see very often tonight. Don't think I've ever seen that many guaranteed options in one plan. Also like the once money in 180 to maybe the 15. Yeah, that you have those three separate time periods. I don't think I've ever seen that many in one. I think it seems usually see like what? Like it's usually the 10 year major. Yeah. And also the 66 next two thirds. You see that sometimes we've got a lot of other options here. that's not the most people are troubled fractions to be him. six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, And I will say this is all a live and airy data driven analysis. Senua, kind of. I think, I think, I couldn't miss her. It is what I thought Kiny said, Holize was 75% did I hear that right? I missed it. Okay, okay. I missed it. Sorry. 75% is more common to see, you know, but that was a requirement that it was added. It doesn't apply to government departments. It's more, I keep looking for the prime of the second. I don't know why, but I'll assist you when I was supposed to look at that, like what they say. That doesn't understand us. It's a period of time in the private sector. I was yelling that I wasn't sure completely. All right. So I think the rest of the information on this topic weekend, you want to move to closed session. Now, when a closed session, it's going to be the day you're coming. I'm coming. The trustees are coming and. Okay. And Sally, so let's see the attorney who is on the open meeting will be virtual in the close session. Megan, would I be putting you too much on the spot to give you these numbers that Cindy just put together and ask you to put together a little chart that people could see? Or do you mean that? Yeah, you can forward me to evening. And the parts that you might need are that there are currently. 39 retirees in the police. 39. I'm sure I 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. 29. into from session. Now we have to be the and love again. Oh. Who's the bike going to be? I don't know. We're going to get down and I'm going back to the get. Uh huh. Yeah, we're going to do it now and I'm going back. We're going to be committed in. Okay. We have three three motions. Feed up or a flow session process. The first one is to move us into flow session. If that motions passes, those that are in the closed session are gonna walk downstairs to the floor all over the window. And we'll do the closed session there. I will not display anything in flow session because all of our meeting rooms have blast walls. We'll have our conversation. You'll make a decision, not next steps, whatever from close session. Then we will come back up and do the second motion to move coming out of close session. The third motion will be to certify that the only thing that was permissible to be talked about in close session was discussed. We have the certification. And then I have a note in here. retirement board wishes to optimize and plan a administrator to execute X-wide scene that was discussed. X-wide scene that was discussed will not be identified in open session. So you'll just, well, that's sort of the framework of the next piece. You're in the motion. I move to enter in a closed session, pursuant to section 2.2.3711. A seven of the code of Virginia for consultation with Lincoln Council and breathing by staff members or consultants pertaining to actual or probable litigation. For such consultation or breathing and open meeting would adversely affect the negotiating or litigation posture of the public body. and consultation with legal counsel and poin or retained by the public body learning specifically legal matters requiring the provision of legal advice by such counsel for the purpose of pension plans, and new-ity optional forms of benefit implementation. I'm seconded by the government, so I'm going to start by showing my hand. Okay, so the resolution has been from insects, I give going to call the vote? Yes. Jerry. Yes. Er. Yes. My fan. Yes. Nice. Nate. Yes. Yes. All right. Find my. I can read. Now in flow selection. Maybe not the firm you want to. Yeah, I do it in my way with my fight problem. So I'm actually not going to see your enamel yet. Are you the pick up or something on you? You're not going to be able to do it. Getting the advice of how to get the exam. Oh, and I see your notes. Oh, one of them seems to be on the side of the list. I'm going. Yeah, we will. We will. We will. I said out of you. I can't see. I can't see. That's what I was thinking. And then we won't forget. you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you Thank you. I'm going to have to go back on your foot. I'm going to have to go back on your foot. I'm going to have to go back on your foot. I'm going to have to go back on your foot. I'm going to have to go back on your foot. I'm going to have to go back on your foot. I'm going to have to go back on your foot. I'm going to have to go back on your foot. I'm going to have to our back on in the motion. We're coming out of closed session. Now all the straight. Great. We have to do the motions that bring us back into session and wrap up the section and then we will take a break. I move to come out of closed session pursuant to section 2.2 last 3711, a four of the code of Virginia for the protection of the privacy of individuals and personal matters not related to public business, to specifically to discuss. He may be on the wall for a certain, to say seven, I have two for sessions. For a certain. The 19. Sorry. Yep. I'm going to come out of closed section. Close session pursuant to section 2.2. That's 37.11. 8.7 of the Code of Virginia for consultation with legal counsel and briefings by staff members or consultants pertain to actual or probable litigation where such consultation or briefing and open meeting would adversely affect the negotiating or litigation posture of the public body. and consultation with legal counsel employed or retained by a public body regarding specific legal matters requiring the provision of legal advice by such counsel. consultation with legal counsel employed or retained by a public body regarding specific legal matters requiring the provision of legal advice. I said counsel for the purpose of pension plans and new and the optional forms of benefit implementation. It's like. I'm going to give you the option. Okay. The motion has been moved and second this. I'll call it up. Connie. Yes. Gary. Yes. Err. Yes. I think yes. Yes. Yes. Nate. And Tom. Yes. Perfect. For the motion. Please. I'm going to certify that only what was specified for closed session discussion. For so it's a section 2. that's 3711, a seven for the governor's union, the consultation with legal counsel and briefings I staff members for consultant was discussed. A second. Thank you. I'll call the vote. Yes. Gary. Yes. Perfect. Yes. And fans, yes. Matt. Yes. Nate? Yes. yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Mommy, yes. Gary. Yes. And then, yes. Matt. Nate. Yes. And Tom. Yes. Thank you. All right. Let's take a 10 minute break. It is 5.30 on my phone. But five more people starting in. Thank you, you will start again. Thank you everyone. Long enough I have heard of some of my fulfilling camera. you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you We have a couple of minutes to go. We have a couple of minutes to go. We have a couple of minutes to go. We have a couple of minutes to go. We have a couple of minutes to go. We have a couple of minutes to go. We have a couple of minutes to go. You got the. I'm going to go ahead and move on. Please call me. Let's see if something is in there. Third corner report. Mary. So in front of you is if you're following a lot of your paper, it's the all plans. It should be the one right on top. We said people have not screened in a moment. So if you turn to page three, page numbers are on the bottom left. This is the market environment. So this is all information ending March 31st. was a little bit of excitement and I won excited for the time we're going to not do it there, but this is all I would March 31st chart on the top right is the major indices for the border. The blue bars US equity you can see we did have negative returns there. S&P 500 broad market negative 4.3. The other is roughly the same number one that made that maybe 4.5%. Also, 2,000, you have a small cap to have the worst return at double that, make the 9.5%. You just have to have the toughest time. Tisming, gold bars, fair-day international markets. You can see we had some nice positive returns there. If you develop markets, the middle one, positive, 6.9%, So nice returns there and margin markets, just under 3%. And fixed income in the pink and sand and bars, let's just say about 2.5% is the average. They moved. April was involved with month, but the S&P 500 actually ended up being negative 0.7%. So if you recall middle and April May Brawl, we were saying that it's 6%, like 8%, then it belted back up. So the month of April ended up just being slightly negative in the US market. International markets were actually positive. We have a 4.5% in developed and positive 1.3% in emerging markets. So I know we had many discussions about international versus US. Who knows? This might be international's time to shine. Everything is cyclical and international have been underperforming US for quite some time. There were a couple of borders to go international, I'll perform in this border international I'll perform. Also partly because of the volatility of the US market, I think a lot of investors are feeling that maybe the US market is not as stable and they're seeing the global instability in the international markets and that might be one reason why the international market. I chart on the bottom right is excuse me 12 months ending March. And here you can see probably because of the strong return from a couple quarters ago, we're seeing basically positive returns across the board except for a small cat. You know, the US equity, around 7% international between 48% fixed income about about 4.5%. And then, excuse me, fixed income, you see the cash at the very bottom there at a positive 5% forward the year. The only other thing I'm going to point out on the markets is that we added a chart. And if you go to page 12, what we did is we took the S&P 500 and plotted the return of history of the S&P 500 from the financial crisis that had to be in October 7th to March 25th. We're just basically showing how the S&P has moved since this time. If it's shaded blue, the S&P was positive. If it's shaded, the orange, the rust color, that means the S&P was negative. So you can see starting at the left, beginning the financial crisis, we had a big drop in the S&P 500. And since then, it's basically trended upward. There have been some small corrections. Beginning the pandemic in early 2020, there was a big drop, but it did last very long and then it came back up. And then we had a, you know, 20.2 was a tough year. So you see some downturn there in 20.2 and then it's basically gone up with some small corrections there. So if we added April to this, we would see a little bit more red, but then the end of April it did pop back up. So you'd see a little bit more on the very far right there. But just thought it was an interesting chart. Long-term, S&P 500 has a 10% average. Last year was 24%. The year before that was, I think, 20%, 22%. So two years of very strong returns. My colleague says if you have a 10% average and you have 20% in the last two years, expect a, expected correction. So, you know, we're seeing that correction, how long and last I don't know, but, you know, the markets we did need in the correction. So we'll see how long it ends. Okay, now going to 13th, page 13, looking at the investments specifically. Kimberly, just so you know, this all plans reports is summary of all plans. We do have detailed information for each plan in a separate report. And a lot more information we just hope you pay. So if you'd like to sit down, I can have you talk to a report. So pay 13 is the assets, market values and cash flows and also the returns on the right. So page 13 is for the quarter and you can see all the all the plans there. If you look at the return on investment column you can see we did have negative return on investment so we do have slight negative returns in the plans. You can see what your ending market value is, second column can be right there and then you can see what the grocery turns are on the far right. The basic employees, which are very similar, you can see they had a negative, basically a negative zero point to seven, negative zero point to nine, and then opend had a negative one percent. Opend is passive, we got passive returns. Police and basic had some active managers, and so that someone's active managers defended in the down market which is what we like to see and what we expect and so that's why you see better returns in police and basic than you do. And then we see the 401A and the 457 market values and we did see an increase in the 401A slightly increasing the the focus to 7, that's from June market. Page 14 is the one year information. Again, if you look at the return on investment, do you have some strong positive numbers there so we do not have strong one year numbers, which helps to deal with all of that. okay. So now, was there a question? No, okay. So now we're going to go into the police plan. And if you turn to page 17, we're going to look at allocation versus investment policy statement. 17 on the broad asset classes in 18 on the individual investments. But here you can see we are within range except for fixed income, fixed income, you can go below range. We're at the little bit, the right on the bottom end of that range there probably because of market movements. So we're a little bit less out of range than we were last quarter. Page 18 shows the individual managers and you can see here it's the norm of trust core fixed income that we are on the page. There was a motion to move some monies into fixed income and Cindy is going to be working on that. I think we have to react to make our account at norm of trust to put the trade in but basically that trade will be made and we will follow up with that motion to move some money in the scene. Yes. And so they serve the trade is basically that the trade will be made and we will follow up with that notion to move some money and Yes, and so the trade is to bring the allocation back up to the minimum. With the dollar rents, I think we were going to move a little bit more to the minimum, but not quite up to target. because I know it's normally done normally, balanced when you're picking cash out or you're paying. Is this a separate? This? minimum but not quite up to target because I know it's normally done normally balanced when you're taking cash out for the paint. Is this a separate? This is a separate one because we needed to move more. Okay. We need to move less up because we're a market. So we still yeah and then in June we'll move to next. Yes, formally, make your final. Thank you. Yeah, so in just one minute have made a request to June, we'll update the numbers and see where it is and whoever's the largest driver wave for technical analysis. I'll speak to the basic plan on allocation, but let's talk performance first. Since I have performance on page 20. So 2021 to 92 is performance and page 20 performance first. Oh, it's agreeing now. Yeah, and ask them to change the colors. I don't have to say first grade bar, car, top, second grade bar. So the game bar across the top is the police total fund return. Basic is very similar. So second column from the left quarter return, return for the quarter was a negative 0.27. So basically 40% your rank is 67 there. So that's against all plants. If you look at the role rank below, which is the gray bar, so this is taking the performance and ranking against plants with a similar equity allocation. So 70% equity allocation, and you can see here, you're acting even better. So that is telling me that those plants with a 70% allocation, you're able to load a better versus all plans, all plans probably had a little bit more fixed income that made for some other asset classes that protected and that's why you may not look as strong in the all plans, you have much versus the a 70% equity median. So usually we don't see that big of a difference by the long pointed out because this quarter never vehicles there. But going back to the green line, and looking at your longer term numbers, the one through 10 year, you can see the absolute returns. You know, one in three year a little bit below, the six and a half percent annualized rate of return that we need from the actual point of view, but the rank in the parentheses, ranking 23rd and 19. so relative to other plans, very competitive, but absolute returns slightly below. But the five, seven, 10 and 15 years, very strong. You know, well, above the six and a half percent actual return and ranks are very strong. They're 15% or high. What taught us? So very strong. Individual managers, there were a couple, there were a few managers that were pointed out. So I will mention those all specifically. So JPMorgan equity income fund, the first manager under domestic equity performance there. You can see a quarter was good. They did outperform for the quarter, but the and the one year number is pretty good outperforming for the versus the index and ranking 31. But the three here and the five here you can see a little bit below media and below the index index. So the ranks are, I think a third quartile ranking right from 69 and 67. And my notes on that one are in 2022 it was a negative year and they, but they defended very well. Their return was a negative 1.6 versus the index of negative 6.8. So 20 to 1.2, they showed their defensiveness the other years where it was strong positives, they just aren't keeping up with the market. So I don't have too much of a concern with them in the fact that the one time period that they had negative returns, at least they protected, they protected really well. And then the out markets, they're, you know, they're trying to keep up, you know, but for five years, they're giving you 16.5% of the deterred. So considering the index was, excuse me, 15.5% when the index was 16.1. So pretty close to the index there. They've got equity. For the most part, that is doing well there. The five year, they're just slightly below median, but overall the time period is very competitive there. So the little concerns there. MFS grows, we've growth, we've talked about them multiple times probably because they are not as growth as the benchmark. So that's why they're not looking good versus the benchmark. Because the benchmark, you know, is very concentrated and they're not just not going to hold that much in the top seven or top 10%. So they want to do a little bit more diversified in the benchmark. we can see for the quarter, they did defend negative 8.8 for the quarter, but the benchmark was negative 9 and the average large cap code man was negative 9.1. So they did defend in the fact that they protected a little bit, which was nice to see. So we'll see if they, you know, we'll show some stronger numbers go forward. But if you look at the annualized numbers there, they're one year number, they're below benchmark, they're ranking 63rd, so third quarter time, three years, they're about to, one and a half percent below the benchmark, they're ranking 35th of top third, and then the five year, someone to the one year, they're below little bit, they're below the benchmark ranking 68 and then for seven years, they will be rolled benchmark but ranking 38 and then for 10 years, a lower global benchmark but ranking 25. So below the benchmark are the most of those time periods but again the benchmark is the two concentrated for them on the lower ranking first supply. So when you ranks versus other large capital managers for one, two, three, four time periods, they are above median and then there's two time periods. I'm not going to look at this, we need to take this. There's two time periods where they're basically playing a quartile. So they're hovering between the second and third quartile. I'm not that concerned with them, but we'll see maybe with the idea that far starting to be below the one to first try and do if you see some strong performance there. Well, the reason I wanted Mary to dive into this one a little bit more was because it's in our savings plan. So when we get to the savings plan, we don't have to go back into the performance of this one. And then on the H-21, Schrover, the emerging market manager, we talked about last meeting. 2022 is what for them, maybe out, you don't see it here, but the 2022, they did not defend loans loans and negative return when they did not defend well. And probably that was the beginning of the 2020-22 was a beginning of the new 20 and more. They had quite a bit of energy and energy selection front them. So there was a little quite a bit of volatility and this is an emerging market product and there was a lot of volatility in the emerging markets probably because of that with the Russian market being shut down. And so they were hurt basically by that selection and energy, a couple of other sectors, but energy-viscinded gets down negative impact there. So that's really what's hurting their performance. All the other time periods, if you look at a mom on an annual basis, They look pretty competitive. I wrote down their ranks on an annual basis, basically, are 49, 39, 51, 63, 62. So again, second to third quartile, if you look at them on an annual basis, except for that year 2022. So we'll see you in the next video. for communication outreach. The employees at the month. We have not only something about like the elections or what we're changing the department plans and we're open enrollment so we were just so I just wanted to share with you so you have a record. Also I have always noted in the administrators report my continued participation in a statewide meeting on economic updates that's monthly. And so this last one was, they're all informative, but this one was really timely informative, given all the interesting things happening around us, so I thought I would include it for you all. The report includes all the activities, not all the activities, a lot of the activities that we work on during the quarter so that you can do your fiduciary oversight of the plan administrator. And we've kind of mentioned this throughout the time and it's certainly in the work plan, but the plan amendment is a big part of this consent agenda and it will be targeting now towards September with the maybe October meeting as needed. So there is a lot of good work going. We are doing a full review. And so it's all the PENCH plans, the retiree, be hiring, service calculations. Right now the plan actually does it really have much specificity at all on the annuity options and so the room has recommended once the decisions made where to go to document it. So that is a real high level report on the administrative reports since the 7 o'clock and you've been going, this is 30. Betha, I'm glad I can't answer any questions or get additional feedback. Let me have a motion to do. We do. And I think I forgot to put that motion in there. So yes, I'm going to love it if the maker of the motion approves the consent agenda, moves to approve the consent agenda as presented. Move to approve the consent agenda as present. Second. Motion is moving to second. Yes. Gary. Yes. Yes. Yes. My fan. Yes. That. Me. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Any other business that we need to discuss? All right. Then just need our motion to adjourn as of 703. That one I didn't forget to. I moved to adjourn the meeting time at 703. A second. All right, I'll follow the code. Tom, yeah. Gary. Yes. Yes. Yeah, man. Yeah. Nate. Yes. Thomas. Thank you, buddy. Do you want to go? I've had a late dinner with Nate at least're all definitely want to have a party with you. We're going to start it. Yes. Yeah. I'm going to take you. I'll say you to follow me up. Okay. Yes. In the hot times, that's the start. Never. Never. Never. The sunflower, maybe the growth culture. The training, I always put it to training. Is this something that they will only need? First thing. It looks like it's something they do annually. I mean, I just signed up for their news once we hired them and then, you know, this email to show and we've said, it looks interesting. Yeah.