House this morning we are celebrating somebody's birthday. So who knows, everybody you remember to wear black. And thank you very much to our executive administrative system, Jim here who's fabulous happy birthday. Thank you. Excellent. It is August 19th. We are here for a Monday work session. And our first order of business is the county manager update sure a Couple little things for you on the Casey's pond. There's still local efforts trying to come up with fundraising to try to keep that open or fully operational We'll see where that goes, but they are ongoing. We have not been formally approached yet for any participation levels, but that may come in the next week. The skilled nursing residents were all given that they noticed this a little while back. And then last week the assisted living were provided notices so any sort of fundraising to keep it in place is going to have to always have to got some operations if it is safe to rebuild those clients are relocating known one or two personally who are in the process relocating. So this is a big shame and I've had a couple of conversations with folks last week. I think we're going to see something hit the papers mid week this week about somebody trying to come in as a placeholder and and make an offer that could be accepted and I think our community efforts are still ongoing so that's really positive but I know we haven't been approached formally. I have definitely been asked by a number of different people, you know, how the county intends to participate. And, you know, my answer of course has been that it's very preliminary for us to be thinking about participating without knowing what we are participating in. So. And I will meet you at that, go to the exact same method. Good. So at least any talk of a mill levy on this, November's ballot is kind of off the table at this point. I mean, the clock really has run out on that, right? Yes, it seems like to me. It has and I actually attended the Steamboat City Council meeting virtually just to listen to their discussion when they covered that topic and where they ended up, I think you probably are aware is that they just decided instead to authorize 2.5 million dollars of short journal tax. Before participating in that instead of going to their own ballot so. I think the voters are off the hook for this November, but we will stay tuned and see what happens midweek. You know, I'm going to channel commission our monger for a minute, which is, you know, the city's always good about committing money that doesn't actually come out of their general fund for these kinds of things. So it's a minor complaint on my part. Good for them for coming up with some of the short-term rental money. It's not the same as any request that comes to us will probably involve our general fund money. And that is a different kettle of fish. And there was some pretty good pushback among folks in the steamboat community on that commitment to particularly those who've been holding out for some housing options and that's why they voted for the SDR tax. So that's pretty vocal. I definitely heard that. Well, you know, I think that the authorization of that was in service of considering that there may be housing options available at Casey. So, you know, I'm not here to defend or are not their position, but just that was the understanding that I had when I listened into them. But I'm sure it's going to be an exciting week for us once we start to hear more. Well, moving down my list on the private activity bond allocation. We have that scheduled for tomorrow on our agenda. And then next year we would be holding, you know, over $3 million a PAB authorization, which hopefully can be targeted towards a worthwhile housing project. That's our third and final year, right? I think this is our second we could do one more. Last year was the first I think but we'll have to confirm that. I do remember the last but I can't tell you what year it was. On the mountain town 2030, we've set it up where we'll do 2,500 this year and 2,500 next year. Since we've already paid the one registration for this year, we'll put her off for it to next year. So that's moving forward. And that'll be an R draft budget for that 2,500. The county road 56, we're trying to draft up a restoration agreement with Smith Rancho. We'll see where that goes. Commissioner Redmond and I had a meeting on Tuesday afternoon with that, which was I'll use the term quite engaging. Short and vocal. Well, thank you very much for doing that. Commissioner Corgan, while you have been virtual, Commissioner Redmond has been getting quite a bit of exciting conversation. I guess our constituents are afraid of me and you're not here physically present. So Commissioner Redmond's carrying the water for us and all of the complaints and concerns related to roads and other things. It comes with the job. I did receive a couple of phone calls regarding steamboat gravel that you're right. It's being a couple thousand miles away. How's it's benefits? On the fair, all reports have been really positive on how it, when I was out there Thursday, Friday, midday, and then Saturday night for the concert. I would say that concert on Saturday night was superb. It was an amazing show, real sense of community. We'll need to work next year on kind of upping our marketing on things a little bit, but I think for this year it all works really well. Our staff, Liz, Joe's crew, Albert, Kurt, David, they spent some tremendous amount of time over the last week there and worked hard and you know, need to continue to thank them for their work on it. But the arena upgrades overwhelming positive results, that concert setup and the stage and how it was set up was just amazing. So yeah, I was out there quite a bit this week, often on participating in different things and Didn't get to participate in the full junior livestock sale, but I got a good flavor of what it was about So you know, I think that's something we had talked about maybe participating as around kind of commissioners next year And purchasing something, but did you end up getting anything? What I'm going to do is there was a young 4-H person in Hayden that lost their pigs before. So I'm going to bail them out. Yeah, you know, the kids that are in the sale that make the money, I think they've done all right, but those ones that did the hard work and got no reward out of it, I'd like to see them at least, you know, not leave that with a bad taste in their mouth. Yeah, that's really good. I know we have until the 23rd of August, if there is an interest in participating in that, um, raise the floor or add on. The add on, yes. So if you want to do that that check him and Todd and see what the most effective way is maybe to do that Because there may be other cases like you're describing yeah, and I I reached out to David long and he said he suggested this family to me so Definitely want to follow that up. You know kid puts in a lot of hard work Spends their own money and then comes out in the hole. That'll leave a bad taste to your mouth. So just let them know that somebody wants them to keep going. Yeah, that's great. I think our fair board members were tickled, by the way, with all of the improvements and just to see so many folks around. They were continually thanking me for the work of the Raub County staff, the facilities folks' lives. They seemed really happy with with her and road and bridge of course out there as well. I did see an interesting looking chef relay. Is that or is that the electric vehicle that was parked out there for a while? Yeah, Joe was using it last week to commute back and forth. So the we have three of the blazers, but the great one is public works the two white ones are environmental health. I think it's cool looking. Yeah, it's seem to move out to the fairgrounds rather quickly. I tried to grab it one day last week to drive because Mike was out of town and Joe to already already had it. So it might be getting the spend kind of interviews I get when I'm driving on the 40th. Interesting. So, yeah, so overall, you know, real positive. We'll do a debrief on that and kind of what we can learn and do better. But it's just seen that the relationship between staff, bear boards, and your livestock sale was very positive. Where in past years there could have been some conflict there. So we'll continue to grow that. I would also throw in the rotary club as well for that. They did great. The Friday night, octane, high octane event, the kids loved, was not, you know, did not produce many particular issues or beer sales for the, oh really? For the rotor, because of the younger crowd. Yeah, so, you know, just kind of right sizing that, they had probably too many people volunteers working for the for the event. So those are all things that they'll dial in for next year. I think they were also having a little bit of fun now. Um, I hung out with them. I don't know which man it was that I was out there because it was Thursday night. I probably have a bonfire. Yeah, they were all a very good spirit at the bonfire. Yeah, yeah, it was real nice to walk around there this year, you know, I went in there Tuesday morning before I came in and they were had about to have the judges meeting and I walked up behind Liz and put my hand on her shoulder and she turned around and gave me the biggest grin and I'm not used to seeing that from my stack doing fairway. So that was like, okay, it's a little, I actually said to her, it's a little the week and you're still smiling. This is good. How many hours? Yeah, two or a half minutes. Well, you know, they had the power outage. Yeah. They lost power from five hours, they lost internet service when they were trying to register. Of course, we had Linda Long there who was very good with paper and pencil and had to educate some people how to use those tools, but they all got it done. She said she was a little disappointed in the turnout at the home arts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she also mentioned to me that she will be retiring soon from the fair court. Yes. This will be her last year. And we decided not to honor her this year with Donnie. We thought that she deserved to be honored all on her own. Okay. I found four tickets to the concert on the ground. I was just walking around and I thought it was trash. I picked it up because it was just sitting out in the middle of the driveway. Somebody must have lost their wristbands. I gave him the David Long and played the game back to the owner. Well, the one they'd gone looking for. So. Okay, last thing to steam build gravel. We're kind of sent you updates from their command center over the over the weekend. And a little time with the sheriff this morning talking about things. We'll do an internal debrief at the end of this week and then we'll do a big debrief in a couple weeks on it. I wouldn't say there was any significant issues. A fair amount of injuries, a couple broken arms, broken collar bones, one head injury, have that many people racing. You're going to have somebody's going to pass. So we'll get that whole debrief, I think in in general the dealiness it's just a lot for both us and the city there's the city's meeting this morning on kind of their internal stuff on how to handle things. That's interesting. Well thank you for the update on the injuries because that was one thing I was actually going to request from Greer is I do appreciate them sending us two emails throughout the race to tell us how things were going. Very rose you. They seem very rosy. I think the number of calls is good. I mean that's not anything that you can paint one way or another. I will say that one thing that I believe got overlooked having directly experienced it, is the impact to the airport and airport traffic. So on Sunday, I happened to be going out to the airport to be there at 1130 on the dock from the fairgrounds, left at 1104 and barely made it after a 14 minute delay because of the ground. The fairgrounds to the airport? Yes. Well, you know, what happened was the gravel road, right as you're coming into town. So the Haven and the... Right, right. That gravel road, I don't know what it's called, but that's 37. 37, okay. So they were crossing on 37. So they had really good traffic control. I mean it wasn't me and that wasn't the issue was just that You know, I had not prepared for them to be in that exact location And I think a lot of other people are in the same same boat and then of course also Getting to the airport. They were milling the road Or yes, yeah, I saw all that the other day So how is another piece that added to the excitement for people trying to get to the airport. There were a lot of passengers who came screaming in pretty last minute and were not thrilled. And I guess there was something else coming from Steamboat Springs also. I'm not sure what it was. I think United was fog coating that should seal on Saturday and Sunday this week throughout. I'm just going to say because it was down when I won up, but now they had to put the top coat off. Yeah, yeah, they had the fog coats. So, and I believe, you know, one of the access areas to the airport was being fog coated Saturday and Sunday. Yeah, it looks really good now. Yeah. It was just definitely an interesting surprise that, you know, maybe we need to, I do think that I'm not sure how to get the word out better to airport passengers in particular. But the employees seemed, especially those coming from North route seemed to understand that they needed to add a little time to their commute. And the report from them was generally good that they had added enough time and that it was fine and they were prepared. I wish I had remembered that that was the crossing. You know, maybe in the future, no matter what the size or if I wish I had remembered that that was the crossing. You know, and maybe in the future, no matter what the size or if the race goes forward, that we can figure a way to figure out where the crossings are going to be, maybe get some word out to the public, because that would be a shock. Yeah, you know, unfortunately, I didn't, I mean, I saw that there was a big orange sign as you were coming in to Hayden that said something like, I mean, I saw that there was a big orange sign as you were coming into Hayden that said something like, you know, bike race. 14th from, yeah. Yeah, like bike race and so, you know, it should have been a flag that, okay, they're crossing here, but it wasn't. And so, you know, maybe it needed to be a little more explicit that this intersection will be affected by the bike race. Yeah. will be affected by the bike race. Yeah, and if we could even get a window in there for people to understand. Yeah, so I mean, I believe that the organizers are trying. I thought it was also very good to see a maturity at the fair purchasing an animal at the livestock sale. And when they announced that it was steamboat gravel that it purchased it, there was nothing with positive feedback. I was pleasantly surprised that there was no, you know, disappointment from the crowd that that was. You know what, is whoever you are, if you walk in there with money, you know, there's, there are a couple of venture capital firms, you know, that buy there every year and, you know, your support and kids, people have a hard time with not accepting that. Yeah. I went out and rode the Green Course on Saturday and there were some folks doing a really good job and in others who were just clueless in blocking the road and stuff and, you know, stopping with a pack. I mean, you're gonna get a lot of video of roads not being passable, eight stations, which blended out in the street, like 43 at the top, you couldn't pass over. Those are all things we'll get on the debrief, but it's just the scale of it's not, we don't have the infrastructure to absorb the scale of it as how it's occurring right now. So those are all things we'll be addressing. I happen to go to the Hayden Greenery this morning and overheard at the coffee shop chatter about just how bonkers it was here downtown. And I was out at the fairground so I don't know what was going on downtown, but folks out there were talking about trying to get to the farmer's market just forget it. Who was at at the grass or a dusky grass or whatever it is? Coffee shop? No, no, I was at Hayden. Oh, oh, oh, with the tamas. Yeah, folks who had wanted to go to the market here and could like basically said that they just turned around and went back. It was just too nutty. Yeah, the downtown was really challenging to get to or through for from Friday on basically. So those are all things that will come up but we'll be absorbing all the feedback and then working internally on things and then we'll have the debrief with you in a couple weeks. And just the last item is we're still not hitting fire danger levels yet and it looks like some moisture this week. So far we've been pretty lucky to as soon as we get a couple really hot days we're getting enough monsoon flows to deal with it. So far so good. I'll tell you we had some serious downpours of monsoon there in Hayden and one of them hit really hard and I was really impressed with how the footing in that arena held up. Well, that's what I hadn't heard about the Saturday show that, you know, that it should have been a soupy mess, but it's not that the staff got in there and dragged it and it really, really read well, apparently. So that's good. I'm really sorry to miss that show on Saturday. All right. Well, that's it for Jay do you have any questions for Jay Commissioner Morgan? No thank you. Great thanks. All right we are moving on to our talented assistant city manager Melina thank you. Okay so I'm running. So I'm from city manager. I don't think she wants that. Sorry, that was a real big slip. I'm thinking. So, yeah, we're talking about. We're going to grab. Solar projects, going to meet with Kate today, give her just an update on that grant that we had submitted the CRC grant. I'm just potential changes with battery component to it. So that should do. I anticipate that just going well. She's been really, really helpful in guiding that process. So I think it should be pretty good. Good. I got a call from Christine Berg last week from the NRG office about this grant. And I have not been able to connect with her. So we've been exchanging voice mails. I don't know what specifically she was interested in, but I have a call into her. Okay, perfect. Good. And I met with her a couple of weeks ago, which seemed pretty positive about that too, giving resources. I think some of that might be giving information on the potential lungs that are out there too, but that's great. Thank you. Can I ask you, were you in the Northwest Cod beating on Friday? I was listening in but I wasn't. Okay, I had hoped to get in there and wasn't and they were going to do citing, I think. Did they do that? Yeah, so citing, there's a wish list that we were asked to contribute right to specific sites we would like to see chargers. So we worked because the city and the county were kind of in it together on this. We, when he and I submitted for potential sites, to that would be within the county and to within the city. So that's for the I was also wondering, you know, when I was having this discussion the other day with Commissioner Corrigan, there isn't a charging facility in hate. There, for the Hayden Center, they have a very good, very good, very good, very good, very good, very good, very good, very good, very good, very good, with Commissioner Corrigan, there isn't a charging facility in Hayden. There are for the Hayden Center, they have the infrastructure for that. Okay. And that's one of the sites that we put on our list. Thank you. Yes. The nice thing is too, they actually have really great infrastructure at the Hayden Center for potentially less expensive level three chargers too, which is pretty great. So nice thing about upgrading a building's electrical service. Yes, and I did confirm to you that all the newer construction, the requirements are basically infrastructure that would support an L2 or higher for new construction too. So it's a process. So what are the other sides? One was here, I can pull it up. She can tell us later. It's not a big deal. No surprise, but don't want to slide down. Okay. Next, next. Thank you. Molina. Yeah. Quick question. Excuse me with our consultant. Is it NV5? Is that our consultant on the solar project? NV5. OK. Are they, I assume, that as we consider storage, battery storage, that they will be evaluating several different methods of storage. There's quite a lot of stuff happening out there in the storage world. So am I correct in making that assumption that they'll be evaluating these different methods? Yes. Thank you. That's the short answer. Yes. That's fine. That's all I need. So moving on to worker housing in Trial Care Center. So, supported that application submission last week for 10 million to the city, but it is not from the county, it is from the city. We just supported as partners on the project, but it's not going to filter through county funds. And who was that grants minute two? It was submitted to the city of Steve vote for the STR. Oh, right. So the city submitted its own project for the same. Well, originally they asked us to do it, and it just didn't. We didn't have the turn around to have a good discussion on doing that. I remember that. Yeah. So I appreciate the city taking that off. So absolutely. And we did help them out by the with the grant writing process in that. So we weren't leaving them hanging. I did add something that's not in what I had emailed. So I will read email the additions. A lot has been done. They get architecture is the architectural and design firm for that project. And so they've completed a number of things. So I don't go over all of them here, but it's moving along very nicely. And so I'll send that update. So you guys can review that. Any questions on that portion? For safety plan, safety committee's going to meet 827. We will finalize that safety plan and submit a summary to BCC. So that it's a broad overview and you don't have to read 152 pages. For EV readiness. And we have a vendor that has been tentatively selected by the committee. We're going to meet this afternoon and just confirm that that is the vendor we would like to read forward. We did a reference check waiting for one more response but so far has come back very very shiny for that particular vendor and the one that was very positive was actually from Governor Polis's office for a project they had completed for the state and so that was comforting. I did add something else on there too that the grant for funding that was created by North West Cog. It is well by strategies DC which is working for North West Cog. We contributed that $5,000. That grant is going to be reviewed by all county partners this week and responses to that will be due on the 21st the grant will be submitted on the 28th and just as a reminder, this is for a potential $3 million to be shared between the city and the county for putting in EV charging stations. The total ask from worth Caucus $20 million. So that's the proposed numbers that make them back. Wow. Any questions on that one? Okay. So a corresponding program. We had our software RFP separate from the consultant RFP. The software one received only one response, but very fortunately it was our preferred software vendor and it was within reach of our budget and had an excellent proposal. We're gonna be working with accounting to adjust some of that the SO budget for 2025 with a potential supplemental budget. It will be very small because the consultant and software vendors that we are hoping to select. We're finalizing that tomorrow. Are all within reach of our budget, which is great. Will this be a sole source then? So you know, out of purchasing, if there's only... So I don't think so. So it went to a competitive process. It would not be concerned. So source should be negotiated directly with one inventor. Thank you for that. And then we did agree unanimously on our consultants. We will finalize all of that this week. That particular consultant just blew the other proposals out of the water, which was very nice to see. And again, with a major budget. So pretty excited about that. For NWCDC, I see that Julie sent the PSA for the Rockefeller Grant Administration. And so that should be getting on track for reimbursement for a timely manner and it will be managed by price. So I think everybody is getting on the same page with that. And the PSA is with. Up size. Okay. That's what I thought. So. Finally with just units, units and grants management. We just continue to collaborate with accounting purchasing grants administration. They huge thank you to Rand a Gina and Stacy. They've been so patient and so wonderful to ask really good questions and to get us ironed out and organized. And I am setting up just a weekly referring meeting with Bryce so that we can go over projects funding in place and funding that's upcoming, so we can stay organized. That is all for me. Thank you. That's great. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm pleased to hear that. We're going to be applying for the safe routes to school. So it's really nice that you have Bryce and board to quarterback that one as well. Yeah, I might can touch on that this afternoon, but the goal right now is just to do that for design work and then put together construction down the line and unclear yet whether it'll qualify for the intersection or pedestrian crossing. There's some things we need to figure out on that. Sure. Well, I appreciate you guys staying on top of that one. That's pretty important as we all have agreed as a safety issue. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. So we are now moving on to legal. Looks like we have Eric with us just Eric today. We had the whole team last week. What do you have for us today? Didn't get any adjectives like talented. Our dynamic attorney. Very hurtful. I think her employees should be would be the more appropriate description. I think we were looking for a positive. I actually consider that a positive. I guess that would be a compliment. Well, I am positively a cramudge. I think I only have one thing to really talk to you about in that is in regards to a potential lawsuit that's being contemplated being filed by eight counties against the state appropriation of severance tax fund dollars. It was pursuant to a bill this year, reportedly to balance the state's budget shortfall. To the tune of $25 million, it would basically empty the severance tax fund intended for local distribution as well as state distribution. And so far, it's basic county that's leading the charge on that and several of the players are pretty well known. Conservative counties for sure, but the evaluation, my evaluation of the case is a bit mixed. There's a statute that clearly requires distribution to local governments from the severance tax fund and I believe that the bill passed by the state violates that statute It's a little fuzzier than that because there's some case law that comes out of that Where where there's some difference to the state for the distribution of those dollars. So I'm not sure what the actual success will be of this. But perhaps there's also room for negotiation when the case gets filed and whether the state will intend to give some of this back. So I'm kind of asking for direction. We don't have to decide today since we're not on an action item, but I would like to give the nod to Mesa County, whether or not Rout County intends to join this lawsuit. What does it mean to Rout County? So this would be suing the state. I read it. When we get money from grants from the state including severance tax dollars in those grant funds. So it appears a little bit conflicting. We're getting some money on one side, but then we're losing money on the other side. I tried to talk to Dan Stern at about what this means in terms of our budget. I didn't get to do that, but I did look, I was just looking online at our budget, and it looks like we, for 2024, planned on about $200,000 for the reserve fund. We don't count them as cash, but goes into reserves to the tune of about $200,000. Mesa County is stands to lose roughly $800,000 if you read the case that I sent you. So again, I'm not sure about the chance of success here is what the state's doing wrong. I believe so. I think the statute's fairly clear that requires distribution to local governments. Jay, did you have anything to add? I would just say this debates occurred numerous times over the past few decades, balancing the general fund with severance tax dollars. It just depends which part of severance tax dollars the legislators have used to balance it. I think it's telling that the majority of the folks participating in this aren't ones which are deemed friendly to current administration at the state level. So it comes with some political resistance we utilize funding from the state quite regularly and it's probably somewhat symbolic but it is wrong what they're doing. You know it's been in the past when I've seen it they've taken because there there was two buckets there and they'd always taken from the bucket that was used to put grants out and they'd always promised us at EIF that they would repay us. We've never been repaid. And also the other bucket and correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there a formulaic disbursement there? So this seems to me that that does wildly the spirit and the letter of the agreement. Yes, I think that's correct in the language in the statute is mandatory to shall distribute. Right. So I'm not not sure what the answer will be from the state about that. Question. Hannah. At least the timing of getting a frostboss with the state is not strategic. I agree that it's not ideal what they're doing and it is basically trampling on local governments but at the same time I really question whether or not this is the most effective use of our good name frankly I mean I understand it's not a money question or a time question necessarily but the time that I've been here, the only lawsuit that I'm aware that we put our name on has been the UN to basin, and joining with the Eagle County folks, as there was another one that I missed. So it seems like it's not sort of an everyday maneuver that we join on to lawsuits, something to be taken pretty seriously. And I would not be necessarily comfortable with the timing of this and would lean towards not signing on, but if there are others who feel otherwise or Mr. Corrie, and we haven't heard from you on this one, you have quite a bit of experience with these issues. Do you have anything to add? then I've got that much experience, but a question for Eric, this is, and you kind of alluded to it before, they've done this before in the past. Have they not swept severance tax dollars? Yes. Okay. So, and what was the, what were, how did counties respond in the past? But you did appropriately. And that would be screened like stock pigs. Okay. There were reactions for sure and threats of lawsuits. And then I think some of the money shifted pots as Commissioner Redmond was talking or referring to earlier. So again, this may lead, and the last two months of the year. And I think that was a little bit of a lot of things that I think that was a little bit of a little bit of a lot of things that I think that was a little bit of a lot of things that I think that was a little bit of a little bit of a lot of things that I think that was a little bit of a little bit of a side of things. So the dollars that have been swept, I was listening to the conversation, maybe I missed it, were they the direct distribution dollars? Yes. That is the direct distribution dollars, not the other part. And then the direct distribution dollars, not the other pot. And then the direct distribution dollars are based upon the production within the county. Is that correct? There's a whole formula on that, which includes the number of energy related, production related displays. It's somewhat complicated. The state read that formula five, six years ago. Right. And it's somewhat challenging to track how it all adds up. And then to address Commissioner Macy's concerns, the decision to sweep those dollars was a legislative decision, probably based upon the joint budget committees recommendations to the legislature. It was to balance the state's shortfall of general fund. And so that was not a decision that came out of the governor's office that would have been a- Yeah, the legislature is, yes. Correct. So- Correct. So- Okay, so I'm glad that we're not making a decision today. I'm glad we're having the discussion because I mean, this seems more of a political issue than a legal issue, and I would share some of Commissioner Macy's trepidation about jumping into the metal of this with a lawsuit, although the other side of me is that it feels like a fundamental issue of fairness. If that's the case, I'd like to support our fellow counties that are affected, probably more affected than we are. So I think this deserves some more thought. Thank you. Let me add to that if you don't mind because I agree with Commissioner Macy's point as well, not just the fact that the statute says what it says in that just by way of example, if I'm reading the budget correctly, or again, 2024, please don't hold me to these numbers because the budget is complex. Just by way of example, the millenor treatment system was budgeted to use, I think, $30,000 in 2022 and $300,000 in 2022 and $300,000 in 2023 from those werener have benefited greatly from loan funds and grant funds from the state, right? Which also tap severance tax dollars at the state level. So I agree. I mean, there's some political attribute to this, not just dollars in and dollars out. I mean, if this had just been a unilateral move by the governor for instance to do this I'd be ready to go to war but let's face it it's our representatives that were elected locally that voted on this and out of minimum some political sensitivity as an order. How about this or kicking the can because I know you like doing that? Is that I get some feedback from our accounting department and maybe come back to you for a final decision? Does that feel appropriate? Never going to argue with more information. You know, and my thought is, if we don't sign on to this lawsuit, which I probably will be fine with because we would not be in the driver's seat, and they may go in directions we may not be comfortable with. But at the same time, I would not be opposed to us at least making some statement of concern, you know, whether we just officially put something in the record or, you know, actually my thought is maybe to reach out to our legislators and express us to them that we have some concerns. Yeah, I mean, I was thinking I'd like to see how they voted on this and if there was any discussion about it and I think that would be definitely a worthwhile conversation to have with them. Oh, hell, their vote was probably to adopt the budget, right? Right, and that's buried somewhere down in there. There's a reference to a bill number. So this had a separate bill specific to sweeping severance tax dollars, or was it just? The complaint alleges that House Bill 24 or 1413 is what authorized the sweeping of this fund to the state. I was surprised I didn't see her that from CCR club 20. Okay. Did you? Well, let's I mean my vote is to kick the can down the road. Let's do a little bit more investigating. Let's see where our legislators were at on it. Let's see. I did have one other thought, but I didn't want to Commissioner Macy's. I'm not sure if it's a case that's not a case that's The court says they're right, you shouldn't have done that. And the severance tax dollars still come to Ralph County, even though we're not named on the complaint. So that's out there too. Right. Yeah, and again, what's more important to us, our relationship with the state, the legislature or with our fellow counties. I don't know. But it definitely feels more honestly or more political than legal. I mean, I understand that there's a specific bill and there's a specific lawsuit but how we decide to engage is more political than legal. I would imagine Garfield is one of those other counties. Thank you. There's a chop of imagination commission or event. There's no unanimous vote at Garcouch. All right so sounds like we have consent that we're going to go ahead and kick the can down the road get a little more information and give this a little more thought before we make a decision, is that all right? That sounds right. Great, Eric, do you have anything else for us? I don't think so. No. Hey. Well, that means that we have a little time for commissioners updates who would like to start. The weather's been really good out here. You know, I don't like you. The way I put it in is that. I will definitely be back Friday night. I don't think there's anything definite that concludes you and air travel. No kidding. With any kind of luck, I'll be there on Friday night back in the saddle. So, Commissioner Corrigan, I had launched the other day Tuesday, Land Manager's breakfast and it turned out to be just myself and Michael Woodbridge. Well that was by the way that's one more person that was present at the last one. True. But he happened to mention that there is the new draft of Mad Rabbit and he thought you may have a copy. Yeah I think I somewhere along the line, I saw a link. I think the long and the short of it is that C.P.W. and Forest Service have negotiated an adaptive management plan, which given the fact that they're both on the same page, I think we can safely is the wrong word. I think it seems likely that the Forest Service will move forward with the plan. Now that they have the Adaptive Management Plan in place. And was interesting. The district supervisor Russ Bacon, he was the one, put a stop a stall on this and came up with the list of questions for the local district ranger to address. And my understanding in the conversation I had with Michael was that by virtue of answering all of the questions that were included, that it doesn't actually go back to the district supervisor for any kind of a final decision that by virtue of the district ranger answering and addressing the questions the project can move forward. But I also understand that CPW has not accepted the recommendations totally yet. Oh, well then that is kind of, I guess I was operating under the assumption that in fact, there was some agreement between the Forest Service and CPW on the Adaptive Management Plan. Is that something you can share with us? Sure, if I can dig it up, I'll take a look. If not, I'll get it from Michael. Thank you. Anything else from you, Commissioner Corrigan? Nope. I haven't obviously haven't been attending a whole bunch of meetings, so I don't have much of anything to report. The only thing I would say is that I was very pleased with the events of the fair, how that went off. It seems to be a total change in culture out there to me, which I would say is one of the most exciting things I've experienced in years. Fair board members pleasant, happy, excited, definite culture change. You know, we thought we were about to lose an open horse show to having it become such a success. I really, I feel the wind at our backs now. So that's a good feel. Very well said. And I couldn't agree with you more. I'm really, really, very proud of all of our team, you know, putting us, frankly, for funding up some money and really putting some pressure on the culture to be a little more inclusive and a little more positive. So I think we're getting there. I think it's really, really good. And Jay, of course, it'll be up to you to keep everybody on track and make sure that continue on a positive trajectory and commissioner Redmond who participates in the fair board. I know we have talked about, you know, continuing with some form of whether it's a workshop or strategic planning or review the master plan. I'm not sure what we want to call that, but we still do have that flagged on the radar as one of our priorities. So just keep us posted how that intends to move forward. I think obviously she gave our view on a chance to come up for air, but I do think that would be a really healthy discussion to have at some point in time. Well, I would just say as we move to the season, I would like to see us find a way to remodel those bathrooms there by the grandstands. I will say to you that to me as a county commissioner to have portapoddies there when we have a facility that's locked because it's not functional is very embarrassing to me. I'm with you on that and you know it's not just embarrassing it's also just not super functional it's not the look that we want to present so I'm with you on that I mean I think it's something that we need to discuss and obviously get some costing on. I mean it's you know Fisher Redmond's correct it's kind of next on the list out there too. Right. Yeah. You know we had prioritized the current projects for the based on the grant writing that we tried two years ago and then decided we're going to have to fund this with our conservation trust funds and our general fund dollars. And I think that's going to be next on the list. So well, I will tell you that was also something that really brought up spirits that the fact that we actually went a little bit above and beyond with that arena has been definitely been noticed and appreciated by our public. So I think they see us making a commitment which is is gonna make them make a commitment. I didn't agree with you more. And actually I did get a couple of positive comments on our op-ed that highlighted the fair. He started with highlighting the fair and people were happy about that. That was good. That was interesting. I'm not sure if they had lines accurate. I don't remember what the headline was. It was focused all on the gravel race and in sessions made through the process. Our paper takes some liberties. So going back to the fair. Jay, have we ever gotten land and water conservation funds for fair ground- I believe we have a while back. We've utilized that plumbing source. There's kind of an interesting history on grants because you've got the bridge, the wetlands, a dry creek, restoration, the volleyball court and the bathroom in RV park were all a different series of GoCo, and I'm pretty sure we did some land in water conservation in there. The grant stands as well. Yeah. Yeah. The challenge with that grant source is that the improvements are deemed permanent. And so 20 years later, if you're doing an upgrade or something, it can create some issues. But we explored and Bryce, can we look at it? You know, what we thought was all possible grant opportunities, even looking at the T-Mobile funding. Oh, I remember that one. Yeah. So we've tried all different funding sources, but that doesn't mean we won't keep looking. Great. Well, I just have a couple of items for you folks, and then I think we'll have a little break before our one hour session with Kevin and the airport. The first thing I wanted to mention is just while we're kind of on gravel and the fair, I did do an interview with a couple of folks who are producing a documentary on the tensions between ranchers and gravel riders. And then also it's a little bit broader than that, but it's using our case as an example. So I tried to stick to everything that we have all agreed to and just make some points about our process and permitting. Hopefully that will turn out well. It was initiated by Ben Sa'ha. I don't know if you guys know Ben, but he was an intern with me at Ampateca ages ago. And he's quite a videographer. He's made some pretty incredible films, generally rooted in natural resources. So he's a good guy. And as part of the reason I agreed to talk to him is I assumed that he would come up with a quality product. He sort of stated outright that he was a neutral party that while he had actually done video videos for Granville before. This was really about trying to present all of the sides of the case. And like a good documentary. Yes, there's that. I wanted to also mention that I spent some time with Representative Lugans at the fair and she was of course interested in hearing what we have to say about the special session. And if there's anything that she wants, we want her to carry forward specifically, I got to play Commissioner Corrigan and tell her that, you know, we are a little less concerned than other counties might be because we're table limited,, you know, if there are things that we need her to carry forward, it's nice to know that she would like to be proactive for us. So, I don't know if we're going to be talking about that now or later, but it seems like it's out of our hands until we see what the special session does. Yeah, you know, it seems pretty clear to me at this point that the deal has already been made. Obviously. And, excuse me. Yeah. The special session is going to be more or less rubber stamping that deal. So I think you said that well, Sonia. It's kind of out of our hands at this point. And I relayed via text message to Rep. Lucans that our position was kind of deferring to the other counties that are much more greatly affected than we are. Now that's not to say that, you know, just because route counties general fund is not so affected. A lot of the other voter approved mill levies and the other districts will be affected by this. But again, I think the political calculations have been made. And it's so new you were at that C-CAD meeting last week, when it seemed pretty clear from Thomas's perspective that the polling was pretty ugly, that there's a really good chance that 108, in fact, wood pass and that there really does need to be a deal made. So I guess if the deal gets made, it would relieve us of all the work we would be doing on educating on the ballot measure. That is very true. I mean, and you know, I do think if this is a foregone conclusion, whatever they've come up with, the fact that they've even agreed to be in the room together has means that they they've found some common ground. So we'll buckle up and see how that all rolls out. The last thing I wanted to put on your radar, or keep on your radar, I guess, because we've already talked about it once today, but just that safe crossings situation, steamboat to Heritage Park, we mentioned here that we're submitting for the safe routes to school, for the planning grant for that. I continue to get calls from those residents. I think just because they know me and know that I'm sort of passionate about this issue. This. So one of the folks over there who's been advocating for the intersection. By the way, they're all thrilled to hear that our report came back that there is merit for the intersection improvements. So they relate to me that they had brought Matt Kirkger out there to talk about this project and that he thought this might be a good project for Congressional directed spending when we were a little more shovel ready. So I just want to make sure that I'm keeping you guys in the loop in the fact that I have been passing on to these folks that they don't need to come to the meeting this afternoon and hack the room to convince us that this is a priority. We've already agreed to that and that we're moving forward and looking for solutions. If anybody feels differently and would like to hear from the safe routes or safe crossings committee and its members, then I can tell them to come on in and visit with us, but it feels like we're on track for these improvements and then we're all in agreement and moving forward. You know, I find with that, you know, they had reached out to me because they were concerned that we hadn't covered some of the parameters in the traffic study that they had won it. And I reached back to them and assured them that we had, which, and I also told them I was shocked that, because I don't know how that misinformation gets out there like that. Well, here's what happened is initially in the study, there were some findings that Mike shared early findings with them that concerned them a lot. And so Mike went back with the consultant and revisited the information. And that's when we were informed that they did merit the intersection. So I don't know exactly what happened, but I think this is one of these things where no good do goes unpunished. As things are developing and you know I think that's really good in many ways but at the same time you know they got a little bit unnecessarily excited a week or so ago which is probably when you heard from them and that's why I've been encouraging them to, just give us time to work through our process and make a plan and get there. Yeah, I asked them in the future, if they had concerns just to reach out. And I said, you know, some of the things that you said were not based in reality. So if you have those kind of questions, please reach out to me, you know, so that I can give you the actual information and you're not being fueled by rooms. Yeah. Okay, well, that's an important project. I think we're on agreement check and that was all I had for you folks today unless there are any questions. Actually, well, I guess I will inform you of one thing, which is that I did reach out to our TPR group regarding the transit voting allocation formula. I was really surprised to learn that the Route County Council and aging ridership numbers are as high as they are. They are 3,325, 3,325 and 3,114 rides in 2023 and 2022, which makes time to have a discussion about this as did Commissioner Villard from Moffitt and then also the folks from Rangely and that was enough to tip the scales with the vice chair of the TPR who was informed us that yes more time is fine. I'm going to try to get a meeting together with the transit agencies whether that's facilitated by TPR or just us to really talk about this, because I mean, I feel like this is a pretty big deal that we're just glossing over with an evote rather than having a real discussion. I was just visiting the IGA and one of the things that find interesting about this, some more I think about it is the Northwest Colorado Center for Independence is not actually a member of the TPR. So if we are to give them a fraction of a vote even, does that mean they now have to be party to our IGA or can we just simply add members willing to? Well, if they have more votes, shouldn't they be part of the IGA? I mean, I, part of the thing about these TPRs and I think that's why the House bill called them out is that there seems to be a pretty broad set of guidelines as to how things are accomplished. If we're going to consider giving them a vote, should we have all voted on making them a member? And then do they need to be part of the IGA? And these are all questions that I don't have answers to, but it seems to me that they can't be. They're not a governmental entity. Right. And so then, but can they be a voting member of the TPR as just a... Well, they can't be part of an IGA. They're not a governmental entity. So that means they shouldn't have a vote. So, actually, I think the direct question I would have for you, Sonia, is, you know, what are you envision as the best case outcome in terms of addressing this transit vote. Well, what I think is that the reason that the transit vote was required by this bill was to be consistent with the governor's approach to pushing for transit as opposed to our traditional how business is done. And so it would seem to me that the appropriate allocation of the transit vote would be to those who are providing transit, because they are obviously the ones who have committed monetarily in action to doing transit. So, you know, my thought would be to convene the transit providers and just basically say like, what do you guys think is the best approach? Because obviously Steamboat Springs has the highest ridership, Winter Park is behind. So we're talking in the millions for Steamboat Springs, Winter Park in the million-ish or less. Then we got Raub County here with our 3000, and then we got Northwest Colorado Center for Independence with 600. And so those are the agencies that I'm aware of. Now, another question for this is, were other transit providers overlooked as we were when this allocation was split? So I think, you know, the first question is, is everybody at the table who needs to be at the table? Because if other transit agencies were overlooked, that's something we should remedy. And then secondly, you know, within the transit agencies, how do people want to do this? I mean, is that a proportionate share of the vote divided by ridership? Is it, you know, is it rotating as has been proposed that there's one vote and each transit agency gets to, you know, have that vote each year? And then the last piece is that Jonathan Flint brought up the very good point that we need to put into the bylaws with the IGA or wherever it's appropriate that should there be transit agencies that emerge in the future that vote would be revisited So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and I guess you know I would just throw this out there as an idea that somehow a Transit caucus is created and the transit caucus would agree on What that total vote would be. But I have no idea how to formulate that. Well, I like that. I mean, I think the first way to formulate that would be to get agreement amongst the TPR that it's appropriate for the transit agencies to have a conversation and try to come up with something that they believe to be more equitable than what has been proposed. They are the stakeholders. And then that transit caucus would assign someone to cast that whole vote on their behalf. Because I agree with you, I think, you know, this idea of doing it on a proportional basis, and giving everybody this 10th of a vote and whatever it is, it's not gonna end up being mushy and meaningless. I think it would be better if a transit caucus united around a possession and took a whole vote and did it that way. Like that I didn't. Yeah, I like that idea a lot. I'll pursue that and I'll keep you guys posted. I think that the vote would be pushed out into mid-September-ish. So, you know, there's some time to noodle on this and try to figure out what's best approach, but I really like that transit caucus. Yeah, because I don't see any urgency to this. Well I don't either but what I am getting from Brian Sermenek who's the vice chair of the TPR is that there was a desire to do this in advance of the October 10th meeting because the October 10th meeting is the meeting at which officers are elected and apparently they're amongst the TPR leadership. So at least chair and vice chair, there's some concern that this will confuse the issue. So I guess what they're trying to accomplish is, let's get our voting entities clear before we have to go to vote. Right. Because you know, you know how it is, you win by counting your votes. But I would also say that fraction that vote, the idea of a fractional vote, if I've got a really small fractional vote, what's, why am I even coming to the meeting? Yeah, I mean, but the way that the voting formula is distributed right now is pretty odd in that regard also. I mean, that route county, for example, has one vote and then each of our municipalities has a fraction of a vote depending on how many there are. So it's there already is this sort of weird fractional voting formula anyway. I don't know, but I do like the idea of having the caucus decide the position and then having one vote. I think that's much more. What should be in the spirit of the TPR when you think about it? Because for years, you know, the TPR has had to come together in consensus to support individual projects. And for instance, you know, for a number of years, Highway 13 was the priority and Route County and the city of Steve Boat Springs, cast votes supporting that prioritization, even though it was not in our own direct best interest. And I think that is a good way to think about the transit that there would be consensus around it, but understanding that the prioritization may benefit one community over another, but that's just kind of the way it is. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if nobody else has items, I believe we're finished with the Commissioner updates. Kevin has joined us in the room. We're not scheduled until 11 o'clock. I do see at least one member of the press. I don't know if anybody will be here in attendance or interested in the airport item. So would you prefer to address it now since we have Kevin or put it on the 11 o'clock, in case we have attendees. You know, it's kind of a big deal. What Kevin's talking about here. I think, I mean, I'm all for efficiency, but I kind of feel like maybe we should do this at the schedule time. I would agree with him. Yeah, I tend to agree. I think that's right. So then we have a few minutes that we can take a little slight adjournment and we'll come back at 11 o'clock for the airport. All right, it looks like we are back is 11 o'clock. We have Kevin Booth with us, our airport manager. As Commissioner Corrigan mentioned, this is a pretty big topic. We've been talking quite a bit about the airport update, the business park update, and then what's ahead and expected in the winter and non-winter flight season. I believe we're still working on our technology over here so we will get started in just a minute. And just to quickly introduction, Kevin and I were talking a few weeks ago about all these different projects going on at the airport and thought putting aside a full hour just to link them all together and you will comprehensive review because there's a lot of moving pieces right now at the airport. Particularly with the general aviation improved terms and then all the regular projects going on. Yes. So that's that's why we're at this. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Good morning. As Commissioner Nasey's mentioned, we've got three topics today. The first two are the more extensive ones and then they're going to be pretty quick. But I wanted to we've been doing some some briefings in support of some pretty important projects that are kind of on deck out of the airport. The first one being the Terminal Expansion Project. And the slides that I'm gonna show you are ones that we presented to Dan Strunand and Sean Summulp just a couple of weeks ago. Dan wanted to know a little more about, obviously the finances and the plan there. And so we'll just jump into that. I think. Yeah, I'm glad we're doing this because to be honest, Kevin, there's so much information that you've been sharing with us about, you know, how we're doing with certain funding sources and which are formulas and which are grants and it's definitely a lot to keep straight in your head. Okay, so this slide kind of goes directly to that. We've taken the project, we've presented it to the FAA back in May. They're very supportive, but they have very limited funding for projects like this that they can do with their discretionary money. So they're pretty straightforward with me that they're really don't have capacity to put discretionary money in any significant amount toward our terminal project as much as they support it. So we talked about, you know, there are other funding sources that come through the FAA. And that's what I'm showing here. So one of those sources was pretty much guaranteed funding. And that's the first one if you look under terminal phase one cost design estimated at 3.4 million. We got a notified last week that we got fill AIG grant, which is listed under the terminal grants on the right side of the slide. So there is a match that needs to go with that get from the state and from the airport itself to get us to cover the design costs. So there's there's one grant that we pretty much knew was guaranteed and sure enough we got it. So we're moving forward with design of phase one. You can see the construction cost is significant, about 48 and a half million dollars. And as a reminder that that's going to improve baggage scanning and Increase baggage scanning capacity outside the terminal the carousel where our ground handlers load bags onto carts and sort them So it's going to do that but the primary Expansion project is adding four new gates Elevated on the west side of the terminal. Three of those being served by jet bridges. It's also going to add some concession space up there in that basically second level and so we'll have food and drink up there as well. And then the fourth gate, so four gates, three jet bridges, you might go, why don't you have four? It's because you just can't get all the way out to our last parking spot with a jet bridge. It's just too far. So that will entail elevators and stairs and escalator. So back to phase one, totals somewhere in the low 50s is the estimated cost. Under terminal grants you'll see bipartisan infrastructure law airport terminal program money. That was submitted just at the end of July and we asked for $25.2 million and that's exactly what we had hoped to get in discretionary money from the FAA and got the bad news that that's probably not forthcoming. So they encourage me to make that number match what they what what we needed from the FAA. So that is pending. I don't have a date of when they're going to announce those. But certainly we're not going to start construction for a while. So that'll be 2025 money. I also applied for a supplementary discretionary grant, six and a half million dollars. Back at the time, this was back in March. At the time, that's we were planning to design both phase one, the new gates and phase two, the new baggage claim area, and that was our estimate for design was six and a half million. So that's how that asked happened. It's highly unlikely that we will get six and a half million out of that program. It doesn't have a lot of money in it. And typically the ceiling for a grant funding is about a million and a half. But we'll see what comes of that. So would you expect any partial funding maybe? A million and a half would be partial funding. Okay. So you still think that's still a good possibility. I do. And that's supposed to be announced later this month or early next month. Okay. So our total it's no longer an ask because we did get the 3.1 million. So our total ask before we got the word last week about the bill AIG grant is about 35 million dollars. Okay. We've taken phase two, which we wanted to do in conjunction with phase one, because we had kind of an elegant solution there where we could operate out of the existing terminal and build on both ends without being completely disruptive and maybe save a little money and mobility costs, things like that. But, you know, phase one and phase two, we're looking at $104 million. That's just not realistic. We don't have that kind of funding available to us. And based on what the FAA is saying that most of their discretionary dollars are going directly to pavement projects, runways, taxiways, aprons, things like that. We've decided to break it up into phase one and then start working on funding for phase two down the road a bit. Will that create problems in baggage claim? Yes, it's congested now, but it's congested for 20, 30 minutes, and then it clears out. So we'll continue to work with ski cooperation in the airline schedules to maximize the throughput in our baggage payment until we can get phased to design and funded and built. Overall, what we anticipate spending out of our reserves is $69 million. Can we remind me please what the balance of those reserves is? Great, Leiden. Oh, good. There we go, next slide. Let's see. Excellent. Back again to, there we go. So this is the budget projections. It's a look back through 2015. And the green line is our reserves. And then the bottom line of the table is our reserves as of projected at the end of the year. So $33 million is what we currently project to be at. A lot of that growth came from the CARES Act, right, and the money that was funneled into us, totaling about $18.5 million, but certainly not all of it. So we didn't have $14 million in reserves when COVID hit and CARES Act came about. So we are essentially profitable year over year. And so our reserves will continue to go up until we start this project. Can I just make sure I'm clear that so when you're on the previous slide that 69 million contribution from therefore that's for the entire project. That's phase one and two. There is a phase three. Yes. We build the two new pieces and then phase three is how do we optimize the existing turf? And that's the major part of that, the biggest component of that is moving TSA from where it is today and Moving it to where baggage claim is today and Expanding from three to four lanes and then expanding ticketing to where TSA is today. Commissioner Corrie, and I just wanted to mention to you that we can't see you when there is screen sharing happening. So you may just need to jump in if you have questions. Are you worried that I will be shy about you? I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. See, no good deed on, it goes unpunished. You've got to be polite and this is what you get. So there aren't any additional questions. I mean, there's a lot of detail on this, budgetary stuff and kind of above the line. If you look at the graph, it may not be completely intuitive, but you know, you've got light gray, which is what we're earning or not light gray, but light orange, offset by what we're spending. So a lot of what we were earning was coming from CARES Act and so that's why those are almost mirror images of each other. Kevin, our original model on this was a $5 million interfund loan? Is that your next slide? No. You can go ahead of myself. No, that's not my next slide, but it is part of our financial plan. And we did discuss that. I don't know if I have it on the slide. We can talk about it now or we can talk about it once we finish the projections here. Now looks like at the conclusion, we're gonna talk about some of these things including. Well, it actually is on the slide. Yeah. State infrastructure bank is a potential as is an interesting one. I think we'll get there. Yeah. So this is basically now looking from January forward for the next five years or six years. And it just shows you that as we start drawing down and paying for this that our reserves will come down, but they never get down below 10 million. And I think we've got a ceiling that was established as part of the master plan back and that we've published back in 2016 that said basically you don't wanna go below about 1.5 million. And that's really based on one piece of equipment and that's an R RF vehicle fire truck, which is about $1.2 million piece of equipment. If we lose one of those, then you need to have enough reserves to just go buy one on the spot. So we're following the model that our financial chapter set out for us back in 2016. Can I ask you a question? Are you comfortable with that? Reserve to that level or would you prefer to have say six months of operating expense? Yeah, I mean I I'm not comfortable operating down at that level We really haven't been there. We were actually back in the day in 2016, the consultant that did that chapter for us. That wasn't Javiation. It was Steve Horton's name. I don't know if you've worked with him, but Louis Woodson Horton was the financial consultant. And he had kind of doomsday projections of us going negative, you know, and having to do maybe an inch phone loan to or be prepared to do an emergency interfund loan something bad happened and that just never happened partly because he didn't anticipate right this model doing what it did right so so no I'm not I don't want to get down to that level. And as you can see on the green line there, we never do. Right. And we won't. I mean, I think that'll be another discussion. If we're getting down there, we'll need to talk about it. We might accept it. If it's the difference between doing phase two and not doing phase two, that might be a risk assessment that we do as a group and say, yeah, that's worth doing. Okay. So, Kevin, I think this, thank you for these graphs, very helpful. It really helps me get my mind around it and just correct me if I'm wrong, what I'm seeing here is a plan to do all of this $105 million worth of work over the next six or seven years. Do I have that right? You do, that's right. So that's, I mean, it's pretty exciting that even without all of the hoped for federal funding, you still see a path forward for these projects. I do. And we'll talk, when we get to that slide, we'll talk a little bit about we haven't yet touched on all the other options. There's congrucily directed spending that we have strong support from both of our senators and actually our congressman. And there's potential there to get in the queue. It you already said this, it's not as if we're actually committed to phase two at this point. Yeah, we're actually not committed to phase one other than the design. So if we do the design and I've had this discussion with our architects, the shelf life of a design is about three years. So if the numbers don't look good coming out of design or in 2025, then we won't bid the project until we figure out the funding. But I don't want us to commit something and then and then see that green line go negative And I don't think we're gonna get there So now I'm confused Kevin Am I hearing you say we're gonna do phase two before phase one? No, no no you're okay We will do phase one when we can afford to do phase one And then once phase one is done we'll do phase two once we get the funding in line to do phase one. And then once phase one is done, we'll do phase two once we get the funding in line to do phase two. So I'm just saying that we don't necessarily have, I mean, I don't know if bill ATP is going to give me $25 million. They do. They go, right. If they don't, then we need to look at Congressionaly directed spending. We need to reapply in 26 for another ATP grant, right? Because that's the last year that that funding is available. But if we can somehow secure $34.8 million of grant funding, that would put us in a place to do both of these phases. Yes. So let me break down the timing of this pretty in very simplistic term. So with the design that you're talking about with the monies that we already have in place for that, when does that anticipated to be complete? Not later than early 2026. Okay. So shooting for end 2025 ish. So I'm just trying to get a reality check on, you know, when we would actually be talking about construction. So, you know, you have to go through the design and then there obviously is the analysis of all that and regrouping on where we're out financially. But it's safe to say that there would be no construction until 2026 at the earliest. Other than there is a car about, there is a piece of this so you know where your baggage parts sit typically out on the millings on the west side that we have to expand because when we go into this new gate area even though it's elevated when we extend that baggage carousel we're gonna make it twice as long as it is today yep we're gonna lose some wall storage. And so we may carve out kind of the earthwork out there and do that expansion so that when we do in 26, extend that carousel and lose that wall space, we have a place to put ground support equipment. So there may be elements of it that we do in 25, but it won't be foundations, it won't be structural steel, it won't be the new gates. Madam, by you. There we go. Okay. So what does this tell you? This is basically what will happen if we don't, if we don't build phase one. Right. This is, this is This is what our basically our straight line increase in revenues do. So if we don't do anything between now and 2030, then we're looking at almost $61 million in reserves. And then we write a check for phase one, basically with no help from anybody else. I just wanted to put that on to basically show you that we are operating in the black. And obviously we're making some assumptions that air service doesn't turn around and go down or anything. But this is just a thing stay the way they are today. This is what we'll see. But it has to change if Southwest lowers or leaves are market. So ne if it's a sniffing change significant. We really need to keep Southwest. They're very valuable for a number of reasons. So yeah, we gotta stop picking on them. I think we've been very supportive. No, he just needs to be able to make some airplanes. That stay in the air. Kevin, looking at this graph. Shit. Sorry. OK, shit. Sorry. I mean, okay. We heard that. Go ahead. I'm going in and out of my Wi-Fi here. Looking at this graph that's on the screen right now, what would the number of employment speed in 2030 compared to today? Probably about so today our current projection for 2024 end of the calendar year is about 230,000 and I think we're looking at a pretty modest growth. So I would say 275,000, you know, if you could do that. Okay, I could be way off because we have all this potential, right? For summer, additional summer air service, and that could spike us again after it happens. But I mean, this seems like a reasonable projection of increase in employment, it's not a wildly optimistic one. Yeah, no, it's not. I mean, I think our projections are limited to about 3%. And that was a limitation that was put on us by the FAA when we did the Termal Area Plan, which was the foundation of this Termal Expansion Project. So they wouldn't let us be more aggressive than that. It's pretty conservative. So, passenger facility charges is what PFC stands for, and this is a $4.50 charge that anybody de-plaining at our airport, that funding comes to us. So not an insignificant amount when you consider, you know, we're talking about almost a quarter of a million passengers carrying in. So we have to tell the FAA, we have to report on this quarterly and then annually and we have to designate what we're going to use those facility charges for. Otherwise, they won't let us collect them. So you've got to be suspended on. You can't collect it. Right. So we have our funding right now is all the PFC funding that's coming in is dedicated to the terminal expansion project. So and we knew that and that's baked into the numbers you saw. But it's also money that you can count on that you can leverage for other forms of funding. So you can use it to do debt service. That's not illegal. So if you don't have a way to dedicate it and you don't collect it, it just stays in the pocket of the vendor. It just doesn't get charged to the passenger coming in. So it's based on each and everybody's different. $4.50 is the ceiling. You can't charge more than that per passenger. So there could be airports out there to charge in two dollar PFCs because they don't have a lot of projects lined up. Right. But ours expires in four years and we have debt service and things. So we were more than prepared to extend it out. Password facility charges are an interesting thing. It comes up every year in Congress. Our argument is to increase it out. Password facility charges are an interesting thing. It comes up every year in Congress. Our argument is to increase it. It's been that way at $4.50 ceiling for 20 to 30 years. Oh, so it's way behind. Yeah. So, and this is something that's supposed to help with projects exactly like ours. So we typically have used it to find all kinds of improvement projects. We used them for the gate that we added for Southwest. Right. So. But now all of it's dedicated to our to our project. So Kevin, if you would allow me for a minute to play the devil's advocate, we're talking about an airport right now that's handling 230,000 implements per year. And you're talking about spending $105 million in order to accommodate a slightly larger number of employment six, seven years out. Help me understand why we're doing this. There's a couple of reasons. One, if we just state status quo, if you come out in the wintertime, you will see how grossly undersized our security is. For gates aren't large enough, there's times when we have to actually go in and ask everybody on a specific flight to leave the security and vacate because we're exceeding fire code. So it has to do with safety and security and the passenger experience and one we're seeing larger airplanes come in and we don't we have gates that aren't large enough to handle the number of passengers. We don't have a gate that can handle the 757. So basically they spill over into other gates and things. And so yet Delta people sitting in American, and then American people are displaced over in the southwest. So it's a number of reasons. We're just just for today's purposes alone. Our gates aren't universal. So some of them can only handle a regional jet and really actually the only reason it works for United and it doesn't work very well because that gate is probably the most congested gate we have. It's two gates, but each gate is undersized. So together, it's one good-sized gate, right. But typically, there'll be two United Airplanes on the ramp at once. And so those people, so you've answered my question. We're not just spending all this money for what we anticipated future needs. We're catching up with current names. Absolutely. Yeah, let me layer on a little color to it. I mean, just think about that. What Kevin described if you've already gone through TSA and you're on the other side and you think, you know, your vacation started and then somebody comes and tells you, you know, go on back out there, you get to go through TSA again. People don't like that at all, but the other thing I think is really important is um, uh, we want people flying here and not to Denver. And you know, that has a number of different functions. I mean, obviously collecting the fees on them is one of them, but the other piece is, you know, the more that we can do to get people to not drive when they are not used to mountain conditions and they, um, you know, probably shouldn't be renting a car and driving here. I think the better off we all are from climate action perspective, safety perspectives and other things. So I mean, I think we need to keep front and center that we want people coming out of our report and into our report. Thank you. So this is the slide we've been previewing them so through the C-DOTs aeronautics division they've set up this loan program the SIB program Their current rates I think are between 3 and 4% It's it's a loaned out and then paid back so the the fund goes up and down. It's great. Paybacks happen. I was talking to my counterparts at C.Dot, uh, in Vail at our last airport operators association meeting there. And they they know about this project and they're encouraging me to apply for an SIB loan. I just don't want to do it until I hear about these grants. But they're kind of saying, well, it's your foot in the door early and you got a better chance. And it can be a significant amount of money. So we might do that in lieu of an interest fund loan. We'll just look at what the rates are. You know, I mean, I think they're around 3% right now. I'm frankly didn't ask Dan what he's charging right now for an interfund loan, but somewhere around there. We'll give you a good, we'll give you a good jail on it, Kevin. Well, I mean, you've had a question I was going to ask you earlier, but I think now's the more appropriate time is, you know, 33 million dollars in reserves is a pretty significant chunk cash. And, you know, we saw our investment folks coming in and talking to us. I mean, if you're going to apply, let's even say the rate is 4% on the loan. What are we earning on the money that is sitting there in the reserve fund? I mean, is it greater than the 4% you'd pay on a loan? No. I don't think so. No, no, no, no, I would defer to Elaine to give us the exact number. But right, I've looked at the revenue numbers on our interest income is not 2% 1.5 2% 2.5% Well, whatever it is, I mean, I just think we need to keep that in the mind that we do, you know, that our interest that is earned on the reserves can contribute to the offset of what we would be charged interest on a new loan. And speaking of which, Kevin, I assume that your growth in reserves includes a rate of return on the investment. That's not just flatline numbers. Okay. Yeah, so that's part of we're roughly earning about three million a year if things stay just the way they are and and a chunk of that is the interest income on our reserves. So I think we've talked about everything on here, including the PFC funded bond or loan program, which is available. Another one we'll look at the rates. There's certainly no shortage of people that want to loan us money right now, so I get calls every week. And I did go to kind of a P3 conference last year in San Diego to explore that and meet some people there to see what our options are. But we'll do what's I think smartest of those. And then we can we can cover it without any any loans. That'd be great. Yeah. So. And so I'm going to stop sharing for a second and to the next one if, but happy to answer any questions on the project. I think it'd be just helpful to note that currently we function like an enterprise at the airport, but we haven't done a formal designation as an enterprise. So that's something that we may need to work on depending on the loan arrangements as a revenue bond or something similar with an enterprise doesn't necessarily need to go to a boat. So there's some pieces of this that will just have to structure and where we might need to make some changes to our structure based on how we fund this over time. Okay, can you clarify a little bit what you mean that you say we may need to does that do you mean we may need to because it's a requirement of a lender or is it a best practice or what would be the trigger. It would be a lender without obligating the entire county for the funding. Right. So basically a protection. Yes. Yep. Got it. So that's it. That's information I wasn't aware of. I assume we were an actual enterprise function like one, but we've never made a designation. Okay. That's good to know. I wasn't aware that too. Err Dan and Kevin and I met out. Yeah, Dan brought that up on our August meeting. It's not a critical issue. It's just more of administrative one that we may need to work through. Sure. Yeah. If there aren't any additional questions on that, I'll move on to item number two, which is, it was originally the General Aviation Development Plan. We were funded through a grant to, we spent about $250,000, meet and not put together this plan. We published it and it's on our website and I've got excerpts from that presentation up on the screen. And essentially what we're doing is giving opportunities or creating opportunities that are economically feasible for developers to come in and further develop what we call our general aviation area. So we're going to call this you know Hayden has a business park right across the street from us that's under construction and we started construction last year. I think you can see my cursor so as you recall we out of our reserves we built this road so that's New County Road 51A. Next to 51B down here. And then while we did in conjunction with that, we extended our wildlife fence, so our security fence goes now inside of this. We did a little bit of grading in here, right? And the whole idea is to put out, when we're ready, we'll put out an RFP asking developers to are you interested in coming in and bringing a business, a aviation related business. So that's the caveat. If you're going to be in here inside the fence, it's got to be aviation related. So you can't build a hot yoga studio or something like that. That would be really handy to have them there. So, so that's what we're talking about and. Move. There we go. So this again, these slides were put together for. The office of just transition. Again, these slides were put together for the Office of Just Transition. All right. So we have some things we want to do and we've got three grants pending to do them and not intentionally being vague. We're going to it'll be easier to show you. So again, what have we already done? 2023, 2024? The only thing we still have to do, and we chose not to do it this year, we're going to do it next year in 2025, is have the Amphi Valley Electric relocate the power lines to follow the new road. So we haven't done that. That ought to be a lot of fun, Kevin. Yeah. A good times with that. So total of 37 acres, about 27 of which isn't wetland and is available. So really it's going to be 27 acres of development. You know, we're growing the business park. There's a lot of interest, not just like private hanger developers, but businesses and we'll get a little more detail into that. the business park there's a lot of interest not just like private hanger developers but businesses and we'll get a little more detail into that. And I mean, the way we presented this to Dola and just transition and even EDA who's the primary during the large part of the grant, they're the biggest grant, uh, submittal that we've made, is that we think there's partnership available between what Hayden has done in their business park and what we're doing here, right? Where somebody like, for example FedEx, they could have a place where the big 18 wheelers could come in and do that sort of thing, and then they could just shuttle packages, you know, a quarter or two, a half a mile down from where their airplane comes in. Because right now they bring truck, their little trucks out onto the FBO apron and loading them there. So they could do a much better job. That's just one example. We'll get into some other ones. I will, while I'm here, I will talk about their spaces to this as well and phase one happened a couple of years ago where we wanted, if you can follow my cursor, that area was developed today. It was already inside our fence and it was already accessible via this taxiway, Bravo. a Bravo and we did an RFP and we as you recall we approved the BA group to do that. Right. They're breaking ground any day. They were out last week getting their final badging things but they are going to receive steel in November for this hanger and is no longer two hangers, it's one big open bay hanger which is the equivalent of these two existing hangers in square footage and then they're building a big apron in front of it and then they took these two complexes and actually squeezed them together so they share a back wall now which is an efficient way to do it. So three medium-sized hangers facing to the west and four hangers the size of our four existing hangers facing to the east. So that's happened. That's already, that was phase one of this aviation business part. And then phase two is everything else you see in blue here. And this is really just our idea. Developer come in with a brilliant idea and we'll evaluate it. And we think that's a great, great use of this space. We'll at least to them. What, why are we asking for money from EDA, Dola and OJT? It's because the existing taxiway Bravo. Next down, as you can see right here, it goes from full width to a really narrow section. And so we've asked for a total of about $7.4 million in grants to widen and strengthen this taxeeway. And that gets us to the big big to be able to service the big private jets the Gulf Stream 650s. Design group three if you if you care we can't really handle those today up there. The other thing it does is build this taxiway. So FOXTRA also for the big airplanes. So, and you can see that if you wanted to bring your business in here and we hadn't built that, that's a $7.4 million burden startup cost if you're going to try and service big private jets. Okay, so we thought this was very viable. We thought that the jobs that will bring are perfect for this community right now. Good paying jobs. And I think if we are successful and EDA does come through. And so the three grants, which I think we'll get into in more detail, are all interrelated. Right? So EDA is the big one. It's, I think, about six and a half million dollars. If we don't get that, we're not going to do the dola and the OJT grants. All right? And we'll try again later for EDA. So they're all related. And they kind of, they all have matching things that I won't bore you with other than to say that we're doing matches from one to the other and ultimately we shouldn't be spending much if any airport reserve dollars to do this project. I love the stacking of funding like this for these kinds of things. Yeah, there used to be a point in time they wouldn't let you do that. Mm-hmm. In Kevin's done a two minutes not a work in as says, to Neil on putting this together. Yeah. And hopefully in the future the county can provide a little more support on this, but a lot of this work was done when we were in a transition period on grant writers so Kevin's now highly trained grant. Yes I was kind of thinking that as we were talking about this that that's good that we have a little help to author. So this is just that same project but more of an artist depiction all right so again widen and strengthen this taxiway and then construct this one. The project also includes water sewer, power, all of that. So that's in the budget. These are the types of businesses we hope to attract. Right, so maintenance, repair and overall for aircraft, avionics, all the high tech stuff that goes in the cockpit of an airplane paint, even assembly. So we came pretty close when I first got here of attracting a business that's out of Poland that builds these kit airplanes and then their experimental and to license them you the owner if you buy all these things you actually have to put so many hours into it yourself and so that's kind of aircraft assembly we're not going to build 737s here but smaller ones business like that can come in here I mentioned air freight before so there's a lot of them. And the design that we have here, you see these three where my circle is moving. The kind of north side of those will be the wildlife fence, right? And so this parking lot will allow public access. And then you'll go through a badge door to get into the airfield and into the facility. So that's another attractive thing for a business. Now, if you're coming in to see how you're, you know, the avionics upgrade on your Gulf Stream 650 is going, you don't have to go through a gate and have a badge gauge. It's not on the door and they opened it up and they ask you or she to see the airplane. So that's kind of the design idea there. That's still up. You can see the 2024 build and those are the ones I talked about and it actually does depict the actual what it's going to look like. And they are partnering with the FBO. So they are not going to be refueling airplanes there. The FBO will do that. The FBO will actually tow in and out of the hangar. So they're in partnership with Atlantic aviation. So this is things we've put together to just show how it does align with kind of what we're trying to do in this area to offset the loss of jobs at the mines and the power plants. You know, obviously we're trying to bring in business development. These are new businesses that don't exist. We just don't we don't have aviation related businesses with the exception of one mechanic at Bob Adams. There really isn't a aviation related business here. We had one for a while at our airport where they are doing coatings, but he was there for two years and then left. that supports infrastructure for these sites, for these developers that obviously supports tourism. And then workforce, we'll talk about, there's some great partnerships that are developing through this effort. So I went down and Mark spoke at C and fourth was, what am I? C and C, C. So they had their first annual aviation summit down there and they've got a program down there where they train airframe power plant mechanics, they train pilots. And so I went down a day early, met with the director of that program and then met with Dr. Jones a little bit and so and we even met with our perceptive business that wants to come in and so realistically they could have a satellite operation here. They could do internships out of that program, they come up and they train, might even be account for credit for a semester and then it could be workforce transition program here. So, I won't say that satellite, they might be doing night classes, where you maybe you're losing your job at the power plant, and a lot of those skills transfer over. So pretty excited about that opportunity. So we think we have a really strong application in right now. Unfortunately, they're not going to assess the application until October, starting October 1, new fiscal year. So this vanag aviation is a company that wrote, filled out a beneficiary form, basically saying, good faith if you build it, we will come. We will bring 45 new jobs will invest 25 million in hangars and office space We're gonna operate Probably in competition with the existing FBO and that will employ 20 to 25 people and then their maintenance side will be between 5 and 10 with as you can see, a medium annual wage that exceeds the one in the valley. So, good. And then you've got, they want to do charter and aircraft management as well. Lower wage jobs there. But excited to have them on board and their viable East Coast company that wants to come in here. 45 direct jobs. That's yeah, we'll show you. I mean, we did the implant. Yes, familiar with that. So John Bristol and Keith Hensley recently got checked out on that and they've got a subscription to it. So we partnered with them and they're the ones that came up with these slides. Right? So 45 direct jobs, 21 indirect, 11 induced, you know, just for the one company. So really a total of 78 new jobs in the valley. And then pretty significant tax revenue coming out of that. Stay on the slide too long. Well, nobody can accuse Kevin of being static and bureaucratic. I think that these slides are really indicative of an entrepreneurial approach to the airport that is really refreshing to see. Thank you. He is their best advocate. There's no doubt about it. So this is then if you if you if you build out the whole complex the whole 27 acres, the impacts even more significant, right 180 direct total of 254 new jobs, almost $5 million in taxes. And all the while, right, if we bring in a maintenance repair and overhaul those AMP mechanics, now it definitely we're not doing this out of the goodness of our heart only. We're doing it because it also benefits our airlines and the response time will become five minutes instead of an hour and 25 minutes. And so it's really going to help the airlines are aware of what we're trying to do and very supportive. So more the same. So that's Thai Harrison. That's the gentleman I met with down at CNCC. And he's also excited about having some actually might be even easier for them to hire somebody live in Craig and teach here or live in Craig teach part time, you know, kind of be adjunct right and then work for the MRO for your day job. Similar to what frankly Kevin Klekler was doing. We have the welding school yeah yeah so I mean he had students coming down from Wyoming. So it could be the same way. This is just kind of the scope of what we're asking for to be included along with the $6.5 million from the EDA to finish this out. So 1.2 million basically is our ask. Kevin, quick question on the expansion on the GA side. The current demands in the community support that growth. It's not dependent on any other significant increase of growth in the community. No, we've got folks, you know, in Stacey's one of them. So she's handing people off that are frustrated that there's nothing, you know, viable yet that Bob Adams. And in his full of Bob Adams, she's got a typically tells us she's got a waiting list of like 60. Yeah, yeah, I was going to say 78 or something, but yeah, I remember that. The demand currently exists with the demands high. And I'll probably get one a week somebody just saying, hey, could I build a hanger? That's probably not our goal, our goal is to bring businesses in back. But there is some infill in there that you saw south of this project where it will be individual hangers. It's just, we don't want you to come in and at least shouldn't you build one stand alone hanger. It'll be get together, build a section of them like four and then you know, give you a long term lease. Or fight a developer. Yeah. Do that. Okay. Other questions on the aviation business park. I just want to make sure I'm clear so that you show us what's really the build out and that sort of thing. So are we on hold with this. What did you say the EDA grant is kind of the cascading effect of then triggering the other grants. Okay. got it. Okay, um, we just wanted to kind of cover what's coming up this winter. And I'll show you the flight schedule here. Let's share that. Okay. Before I do that, I will say that, uh, and it probably goes to Jay's comment earlier about Southwest and that they are, um, curtailing their service next month. Um, not at the beginning of the month, but later in the month through October, they are not going to fly a daily flight to Denver. So it'll be zero flights. Sorry. No flights. No flights. Oh, wow. It's only one a day now, but they're right. But what sparked that decision? Was that expected by you? No, no, it wasn't expected just decision that they made and they have, I mean, they don't have a contract. So there's no revenue guarantees or anything. So this gives them the flexibility to do something like this. And I think the reasons we were given is equipment availability. So back to, you know, Boeing deliveries, things like that is the reasons that I've heard. Wow, that's not great. No. So I've kind of highlighted, if you look under the aircraft column, kind of in the center of the page going vertically, this goes back to what we've talked about in the past of our firefighter presence. And so everything that's highlighted there is a index C aircraft, which has to do with length of the aircraft. So it exceeds 129 feet. Then we have to have two firefighters and two fire trucks. And you can see those are almost all daily flights. So we're well above, we're I think seven a day and if you exceed five, are you meet or exceed five a day, then you're indexed seat. So we'll be in XC all winter. We're index B today where we only have to have one firefighter and one truck. But the big changes here are highlighted in the left column and that is Southwest is reducing some of their service as well. They started service to Dallas Love, and that's going to continue unabated. That's why it's not highlighted there, but if you see above the two Southwest ones that are highlighted is 1221 to March 5th, they're still flying to Dallas Love. And then they're going from three flights a day to Denver, to, so they're going to be in the next one. So, they're going to be in the next one. So, they're going to be in the next one. So, they're going to be in the next one. So, they're going to be in the next one. So, they're going to be in the next one. So, they're going to be in the next one. So, they're going to be in the next one. So it says 143 here. It's actually 172. This is Janet Fisher's product that I'm sharing with you. And they just didn't catch that, that, that, upgaging that aircraft actually increases the number of seeds, pretty significantly almost 30. But overall it'll be less seeds and we'll probably see a little less Employments this winter than we have in the past You think we'll continue to see that trend with maybe some fewer flights and larger aircraft Yeah, so having that ability for the larger aircraft is critical to our future success Yeah, and so we're other airlines have kind of done that So I mean if they continue to see success like with the Los Angeles flight, they could easily upgage that to 737. Chicago could be upgaged. And that probably makes that more financially viable for them too, right? Yeah, yeah. So those, they're not burning that much more fuel and bring more past and way more pastures. Yeah, so the Denver United you'll see two they're not using any of the small regionals for the daylies like they do today, right? So it's an E 175 today with 70 seats, but twice a day they're flying the Airbus 319 with 126 seats and then the RON, the one that stays overnight, is the big 737, 800 at 166 seats. Delta is increasing the frequency of their Minneapolis St. Paul flight on that medium sized Airbus 319, Newark increased their frequency. So now they're three days a week and then on certain Thursdays they'll do a fourth flight. No, it's daily, sorry, up to daily. So some some weeks it's five and sometimes over the holidays they do daily and that's again with a big 166-seat airplane. Oh, boy, people who clean that plane are gonna be really excited about that. That thing comes in trashed every single time. And then San Diego is the one I misspoke there that they're adding some Thursday flights. So they typically do three days a week. San Diego and Seattle, those are the two. And they're staying with the Embryer 175. But again, that's an airline that has talked to me about, you know, if can we up gauge? And that's again, where this terminal expansion will lend itself to that because they've got a tiny little, used to be our gift shop, that we reconverted into a gate. And I think there's 60 seats in it. So if they upgauge to a 737, I mean, how are you gonna accommodate that? So another reason to expand the terminal and make all the gates mainline capable. So that's kind of the main points I wanted to talk to you about today. Overall, number of seats, like I said, is down a little bit. But I look at that and I go, okay, nobody's telling me that demand to buy tickets to fly to steamboat to ski our grade ski area has gone down. So you have less seats. So in my mind there's a good chance that we'll have flights that are fuller, right? So load factors will go up and I'm projecting if I go down a little bit, okay, but I would be wouldn't be surprised if we stayed pretty flat. We got 230,000 and payments in 2025 just like we're projecting for 2024. Even with less seats in the winter. Now if we land some summer service, then we'll definitely boost. And then jet blue scaled back to the two-month model. Did you have any other inquiries from other airlines? The follow-that or you just think that's what went off with jet blue? Yeah, so this will be the third year of doing it. They were actually in negotiations to come back with the Boston flight for the whole ski season because that's a very successful flight for them. But at the end of the day I'm not involved in those negotiations and didn't happen. So February and March are the moneymaker months. And you get kind of the, I don't know, mid-winter breaks. You get the President's Day holiday. Some of the spring breaks happen in March, typically. And those are just the big ones where not everybody wants to go skiing over Christmas, you know, in New Year's. It's busy, no doubt, but February March was a model that JetBlue chose to do a couple of years ago and they're going to continue this year. Well, we're getting close to time here, but Kevin, if I could just ask you one question about the TSA situation. I mean, I know we have sort of struggled with that often on. One of the things that I observed not too long ago is just the situation where, again, Denver, ground hold delays, things like that. And so you have, you know, your passengers on the secure side of the terminal and then they're stuck there all day because TSA leaves. Is there anything that can be done about that if it would need to be? Yeah, I mean, TSA leaves unless the airlines ask them to stay. And Vanessa Simone was in our up safety meeting last week and she said we will always stay. Okay, that's good to know. Now they can't stay till midnight. Sure. So she has a moment but they will never say no if asked. And some of her leads put out on the group check. We're in a lead at 4 or 3 30 or whatever. Does anybody need us to stay and if they don't get a response they go. through check, we're in a lead at 4 or 330 or whatever. Does anybody need us to stay? And if they don't get a response, they go. And one thing she did promise to do is, I go, some of your leads do that and some of them don't. Some of them just leave, right? But you can almost look at the schedule until when they leave. And I asked her, when I got here, Andulin was in that job and would not allow for people to leave until that last flight was off the ground. And when I asked the NASA about that last week, that was a nationwide TSA will went away from that, that they're not gonna hold their people, because United goes on a ground, hold the Denver. But as I said, she was pretty forthcoming. You need us to stay, we'll stay. No questions asked. Is there a charge to the airlines if they request them to stay? I don't know, why Why would they make that request? That's a great question. And I mean, you know, I've been out there since 2016, working seasonally for the different ground handlers. And, you know, I've never seen a situation like I did see that one Sunday, I believe it was, where, you know, between lightning and a ground hold in Denver, and like there were just so many things that caused the passengers who thought they were leaving at 130 to leave at 10 30 at night and you know they were in the secure side of the terminal and I think that the you know the snack bar that's in there did the best they could the guy. We had a lot of compliments. on thinking he was going to be done when that flight left, you know, at probably the second flight at three years, something like that. And they just hustled and scrambled and did their best. And, you know, I think everybody made the best of a bad situation. But, you know, I really triggered my thinking on the whole TSA thing because frankly, if I lived here in town and, you know, couldn't just go out and do some errands or whatever, I would have been in a situation of just really feeling very frustrated with that. So anyway, that's good information to have. I appreciate it. I think we're a little over time, but Commissioner Corgan, did you have any last thoughts or questions that you wanted to share before we wrap it up? No, just thanks, Kevin, really appreciate the update. Just one more question for Kevin. If Southwest isn't actively operating at the airport, does that cut back them sending diversions to us because that's a can be a strain on your staff. That's a that's a great question and I would say that's between them and their ground handler. Right now the ground handler keeps and gets paid for keeping a core. I think they keep like four individuals through that diversion watch, which typically has been going until like eight o'clock at night last night, it knocked off a little earlier than that. But I would suspect that it's not our Southwest flights that are diverting here. It's that the ones trying to get into Denver that that will not alleviate. I think G2 will agree to keep doing what they're doing. We'll see. Yeah, we had two Southwest airplanes on the deck last week. So we're bailing them out, but they're not sure what they're going to do for us. Yeah, it's not just us. So we're not being singled out. Right. This is an equipment problem. And they've got to make their, put their planes where they're making them money. So I do give that. All right. Great. Well, thank you very much, Kevin, for this update. It's really exciting to see all the things that are going on up there. And you know, people are asking a lot about when is all of this going to be forward, especially out there, folks who are working there. I want to see the expansion quite a bit. So it's really good to get this out. Hopefully we will get some coverage in one of our newspapers and get continued informed people about what's going on and the timing of all of it. And with that, I don't think we have anything else on the agenda. All right. So unless you have anything to Mr. Gory, we are adjourned. We're back at one. Oh, yeah, we're back at one o'clock. Sorry. Yes, that's right. We're adjourned for now. You don't have to. Usually, it won't leave. Yeah, I always leave it open and just come back. All right, looks like we are back. It is one o'clock-ish and we have Mike and Marney with us from Public Works. Talk about additional day fees at Colorado Parks and Wildlife Parks and a discussion of our CR-14 traffic impact study, which is long awaited. So we'll start with the, and kind of how I have the consultant scheduled is that they'll jump on here around 145. So we have 45 minutes scheduled for the issue on State Park, additional fees and so on. And then the consultants, I've talked with them at 145. And so we're booked for that. So we can get started with the. The consultant department. 145, yeah. I would be here. You just got 45 minutes of your life back. So at the beginning of this year, Commissioner Corrigan and Commissioner Redmond and myself, I had a conversation with one of the consultants from Colorado State Parks and Wildlife to talk about with Commissioner Corrigan going and chatting with state legislature about what happens with the keep Colorado Wild Program. What happens if they have overages from their expected revenues, does that get kicked down to the counties, and so on, and then they sent their consultant to have a discussion with us. Just to gain an idea of what we do, sort of what our maintenance practices are, the monies we spend on those roads and so on. And I would say we chatted for 35 to 40 minutes, only at the end for them to tell us that we can apply to add a $2 service fee on top of day passes at the parms. They gave us a head-and-not meeting, they gave us, and I can forward this email to you, Commissioner Macy's, they gave us kind of a four-page synopsis of daily pass sales that they thought would occur in 2023 and then talk a little bit about what they think the fall off will be for daily passets because the $2 fee is only on purchase day passes. And then they gave us breakdown numbers of purchase day passes at all the state parks across the state. So it would amount to about, if you went on 2023 based on their fees, it would amount to about 54,000 dollars a year. And then they talked about the projection of it being day passes through the heat Colorado wild, they thought based on, let's see, the final attachment was daily passes to the park. The last column of the sheet reflects what sales may be in 2024. If recent trends continue and we see a 45% reduction in sales of of day passes. So then that $54,000 goes down to $27,000 a year. For that, then prior to the introduction of Keep Colorado, they basically said that their projection for daily passes was probably going to be in the neighborhood of a 75% reduction of general day passes from 2022 to 2023. And they sell roughly 700,000 day passes a year with all the parks across the state. We see, let's see, between Elkhead, Pearl Lake, stage co-options, T-Bull Lake, that's 10, 12, 13,000 day passes that get sold roughly. But that's on the reduction. Sorry. 20,000, 20 to 23,000 day passes. And that was based on 2023 numbers before keep Colorado wild really kind of get into over driving. And then they expect that to drop 75%. From the 23 numbers. Right. Potentially. In the agenda packet, I provided. Not knowing what they were going to ask for. I kind of went with sort of the the math on what we buy essentially what we contract out you know above and beyond kind of you know manhours and equipment and so on you know going with of those roads taking 78, 67, 82, 09, being our three, or our four Rado roads, simply to state parks, and then taking our paved roads to state parks and taking all the numbers that we spent starting in 2015 to 2023, on what we spent on those roads on Magclar, I, Chip Sealing, Overlay, and honestly, over the, from 2015 to 2023, we averaged about a million dollars a year that we perform service treatments on their county roads, uh, such as 27, 53, 78, 12, 14, 2, 12, 76, 16, and 86, just all the roads that kind of surround or lead into the state park areas. I mean, you could probably extract 53. I think we were looking at, you know, the potential for Indian run state wildlife areas. I, we also kind of took a look at that, but do you know, that's included state park, state wildlife areas. I guess state lands is how I headed it up. On their 45% reduction. We were to collect $27,000 a year. I mean, that pays for our average year of mag that we put on the gravel roads that go to Elkhead, Pearl Lake, Elkhead and Pearl Lake. And Steamboat Lake doesn't include, I don't have 16 on there, which depending where people come from, to access stage coach six. Right. Or 18 or 18 A. I don't have that on there for Magclar, which also accesses the South Shore boat ramp at stage coach. And then the new parking lot that they put in on the other side of South Shore neighborhood but that would be affected by 188 and chloride and the like so. I don't know where they never really provided us at the end of that they never really provided us with website or where to go to apply for the ability to, for us to apply for the ability to add the $2 service fee to day passes. But we can begin to collect it in January 1, 2025 if we choose to opt in and we're approved. I think so. Well, you guys will remember when I brought this up, when we were seeing this legislation passed, that I was hoping this would be a really handy way to get some money out of, to add some money to the budget for public works overall and potentially then also shift some money to supporting the closest thing we have to a park because we couldn't directly support our park, which is the fairgrounds. So I was kind of seeing if we could get more money into the coffers to slides up over that way. And I know Commissioner Corrigan would prefer to see that we get more money out of that keep route wild pass, which I think is correct. What is it called? Keep keep code. Keep code. Yeah. And I think that's correct. But I guess when I look at this, I mean, I'm asking myself, how could we defensively argue for more money out of the pass eventually, if we don't make the case right now that we need it. So I mean, while this is not a great deal of money, I'm hard pressed to understand why we wouldn't simply apply for it and just get ourselves in the door and on record as noting, I mean, a million dollars a year is not a small sum and it's not gonna get any smaller, you know that. So, you know, maybe by participating now, we open the door for that future conversation that Mr. Corrigan would like to have about, you know, what are they going to do with the overages? Or why couldn't this be more money to counties? Right. Do you have any idea what would be required? I imagine there's going to be some type of reporting involved in this, I would think. It would probably be from that, so you would have to put trust on the parks as to have accurate reporting back to us based on their gate sales. Well, I'm wondering if they may not ask you to show that you spent this money on roads going to their state park. Gosh, that's easy. Okay. Just give them one receipt, right? Exactly. I'll show them a bid tab for, just take $129. Show them the bid tab for overlay. The 34,000 tons we've put down on the road in 2015, 2018, 2021, and 2022. And say, we're good. I mean, I'll even show you the receipts. I'll show you the retainer. I'll show you that, you know, all that stuff not to mention when it comes to Magploride, it's broken out by road. Right. Right. Right. Right. It's our by road. It's how we are able to collect our C-Mac funds for Mag Florida roads that were. So you're basically doing this documentation any. Just writing the gest to the contractors. I mean, we don't do we don't self-perform any of this work. Right. Right. And I'm not even including the tons and tons of blade patch that we've put down on the paved county roads, right. This is just straight checks that we've written to contractors for that. None of the work that we've done in house. So, Commissioner Corgan, you're unmuted. Did you want to weigh in? Sure. You know, it's well known how unhappy I was with the Department of Natural Resources and their attitude about sharing the keep Colorado wild money and very disappointed that they haven't seen fit to share that money. I mean, I was thinking, what is this kind of like? We really feel like when I had my business, and sometimes you'd have a project going to bankruptcy and somebody offers you a dime on the dollar. It really irritates you and you're pretty unhappy about the 90 cents that you didn't get but I wouldn't want to bite off my nose despite my own face and while this is a far cry from what we should have coming. It's certainly better than nothing. And if it really is $27,000 and it works, and it's interesting, Mike. And by the way, thank you for, I thought that was a really nice job. You did compiling those numbers. So we know what we're talking about here. And it does look like a pretty neat offset to the MagClaride program that I guess there's and you said it Sonia your hard press to understand why we wouldn't avail ourselves of it and really the only two arguments I can think of is that one the state might start thinking, well, how? You guys are getting this money, what more do you need? This kind of takes the other conversation off the table. But I guess the response to that is, I think that conversation is off the table anyway. This is probably the most we're ever going to get out of them. There is the possibility, as you said, so on you that this could be a first step towards securing some more money. So no, the other question I would have, and I think you've kind of addressed it, it doesn't sound like the record keeping on our end is very complicated. So it's kind of why not? I guess the final argument against it would be well, round counting, you are making it more expensive for people to visit our state parks. And I my response to that is is that state park visitations already off the charts. I doubt that this is going to depress the visitation. And a little bit to that point, it goes beyond that, that over the last couple of years, the volume of calls for residents that live on County Road 209, road that accesses Pearl Lake. It's, you know, through the roof, every Thursday, a motorcade of campers comes in. nine road that accesses Pearl Lake. It's, you know, through the roof every every Thursday of motorcade of campers comes in. Now it's a little it's a little less so with steamboat Lake just because you have a paved road that leads directly there. I mean it leads to the visitor center off 129. Right. The payment leads to the marine off of 62. Right. There's a very little that's accessed off of a gravel road. You know, and then 78 and 80 when you're accessing L. Cat, you know, you've got spots where you're mixed gravel. So I'm, but L. Cat doesn't see. And I specifically left the emperor's stadium park off this because it's access stuff highway 40 right But you don't get the volume of Traffic like you do for you know, Steve. Oh lake pro lake Up there we've done Traffic counts it did not bring but I mean I would say When we did traffic counts during the summer to kind of try and capture that camping wreck traffic, it's on the order of almost 70% of the traffic because we put the counter right before the kiosk, right? So it's beyond the residential areas you're counting the vehicles that are coming and going from the park. And then we put a counter out at 129 to kind of monitor to see what the difference is with the residential traffic. It's in there, but it is a significant order of going through there. And then again, you've got vehicles, the campers bounce it down the road. And I think it's more exacerbated and getting a small pop hole on a gravel road. And then people are coming in on that Thursday and if they're leaving on Sunday whether it rains or not they're going out they're gonna you know go through the potholes and the puddles and the so on and so forth where is it's a little different on 129 when you can access all those spots of steam building the the pavement. Right. And stage coach, same thing, right? Yeah. On Canada Road 14, stage coach boasts. And in the past years that I've tried to get grants to help improve Canada Road 14, stage coach boasts anywhere between 150 to 200,000 visits a year. Well, two by quarter we added $1.9 gallon. Yeah, for Maclar. For Maclar, it used to be in the 70s, 80s. 60s and 70s. 60s and 70s. We lose the C Mac funding this year, correct? I believe so. So, and that's what like 80,000. Uh, this year, it's this year, it's in the mid-70s. So that's General Fund dollars. We're going to keep the same mag program in place that we're going to have to make up. So we're going the wrong way on this. So I think, you know, as accounting were obligated if mag continues to go up like it is, we're gonna start having to cut out or go every other year for mag. You know, possibly starting with one right outside. Yeah, but, but we're not gonna have to do that. We're gonna have to rotate mag at some point with the price point. And these state park roads get so much traffic, we are gonna need to stay on top of them. We may make a big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big big time when you present them a million dollars worth of you know documentable justifiable costs. And then we suspect we might get anywhere between 27,000 and 54,000. Can't hurt to try. I mean because you know, they yeah they are. day passes are the least day passes by part 171772 total in 2023 with their 45% fall-off comes down to 975 that's another 18 hundred bucks here 29 close to 30 thousand000 after the 45% fall off that they anticipated from 2023. Yeah, I mean, it's not a lot of money, but here's the deal. I mean, we all know that I just feel like if they're going to nickel and dime on something this, you know, say, you know, that they, and they even said it to us in the meeting said, oh, yeah, I agree with you 100%. It's a state park that states out to county and so on. But they, oh, it's actually stuff already. Yeah, if they're willing to guarantee that none of the visitors to the upper River State Park will ever drive on our county roads, that'd be fine. Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying is, you know, I mean, we're going to play by the rules and be letter of the law. Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying is, you know, I mean, we're going to play by the rules and be letter of the law. This legislation is limited and it can't in any small way offset the impacts that we see financially to the roads. But it also doesn't even begin to start to surface as some of the other things that our impacts to our community. So, I mean, I think we need to ask for everything and also at the same time be making the case for them that, you know, while, and this is a legislative thing for us, while this was a nice gesture and a step in the right direction, like it gave us an opportunity to truly analyze the actual documentable financial costs of these parks to us. And, you know, we were astounded by the numbers. I mean to me it's it's staggering to think that we are taking a million dollars of general fund dollars and having to put them into roads that are probably getting heavily used by people who are out of area not paying taxes. And I mean when you consider some of the places stage coach has a heavy as a heavy ice fishing use, right? So I did, again, I did not put in plowing in there, right? So we plow 14 granted that's mainly for the residents, but people are using our, you know, we plow to the kiosk at Burrow Lake and people can park there and Tour and and rent the yerks and you know ski far well in those places across the lake. I know Steve boat Lake has a pretty decent well, snowmobiling, cross country skiing, ice fishing, you name it up there. I'm not, I just, Elkhead is tough so far back there that I don't get by there on typical drives and so on. But, you know, I don't know what the usage is over the winter. I know the Amper River State Park all that shuts down in the winter time for that. But at least three of the five listed still get the heavy year round use. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to go back and revisit something I said earlier. I've kind of thought about her for a minute. I think if we were going to continue the quest to get a part of the KCW money, I think DNR would say, well, you better first do the $2 charge and then come back and talk to us. So I find myself persuaded by what Commissioner Macy said. I feel like we should go ahead and do this, and then see how it goes, and we've documented these costs, and a year from now or two years from now go back to DNR and say, hey, thanks so much for letting us get this little bit of money. We need more. Yeah, and I mean, well, the three of us haven't put on an agenda and formally discussed the concept of cumulative impacts of recreation. We have talked about it in every single meeting in different ways related to the topics that we see these cumulative impacts then. And this, to me, is just another way to be able to look our residents in space and say, look, we're trying. We're trying to find solutions and sources of funding to offset some of these impacts. I mean, this is, I suspect going to be a pretty significant ongoing dialogue for the next many years until we get this a little more under control. It's not frustrating. Like the state doesn't have this data. I mean, they collect the fees for camping, they collect the fees for days, they know how many people have opted in to put it on your license plate registration, so on. Yeah. Yeah, so on. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean, we, and I think it's also the accountability around those that information. I mean, since they have implemented that, how has that resulted? I mean, what are the revenues? Is it different? Well, and you know, when I look at this, especially with the Keep Colorado, or I have, while past, I do expect to see increased traffic to our state parks. At the same time that you'll see that decrease in the daily, you know, pass use. So I actually see us having more traffic with less possibility of collecting that money. So I will tell you that I'm frustrated about that. But at the same time, you pick up the money that's on the table. Well, I think you make a really good point, though, too, is just, I mean, I think that's all the more reason that they should be including us and the keep Colorado wild. I agree. I totally agree. Like give us a source of funding, but then diminish it by presenting an easier option for people. I mean, well, and then you know, I also think about the other potential impacts, you know, of that emergency services. If there's a wildfire up there, the county will be dealing with these people, trying to protect them and evacuate them. So I will just say yes, I think we need to do this, but I'm very frustrated with the way this piece of pie is being split. And let's do it. Yeah. Okay. And I guess the next step I'll I'll go and and take a look at the information or get back and touch with the consultant to look at the information and bring it before you guys officially make your decision to opt in. Yeah, let's do that. Let's make sure we can get it done in such a timely way that we can start collecting this fees on day one in 2025. That would be great. It would be nice if we could monitor the increase somehow with the keep wild pass. That's kind of wouldn't it be great if we had like an intern project for somebody to kind of keep an eye on that and I mean I'm sure the information's out there. It's just a question of tracking it down and analyzing it. Yeah. But I mean, that's, yeah, second step. I mean, in your days, areas, that's gonna be the opposite thing to track, right? I mean, it's been a few years the last time I was in the parole like the days area was totally booked by like no parking available or allowed by like 11 a.m. right just completely everyone with people there that even had to vendor up there with paddle boards last time I was up there yeah that's allowed through the state parks to run out paddle boards and stuff like that kind of like that snowmobile vendor up at uh up at uh stebo lake right which. Which I found out Colorado have a bunch of information center. This is a total aside, put up a weather station at that cab up by, I've been trying to get hold of Ethan green to see if we can have access to the weather station data. Um, if it's a real time thing for weather, whether check down Jim Stanishe's webcam on the porch. She's having issues. So we can do that. We can see him is happening. That's a digress. But one other thing that just came to mind in terms of operationalizing this situation is you know the parks are presumably going to have to reprint signage, reprint envelopes you know to actually deliver I mean unless they're gonna cut two dollars off of the fees and keep them the same. I'm assuming they're gonna increase the fees by two dollars and so that's gonna take some doing on there and so would you want to provide Chris Middler if he heads up or should we. So would you want to provide Chris Middledoor if it heads up or should we do that? Would you want me to do that? Sure. You want me to do that? I imagine that they'll do most campsites do it. I get a mailbox number and just put it over the old feed. It's just fine. I mean, I do think if we just make this decision today and we haven't adopted anything yet, but we're moving forward, it would be good to give them a courtesy heads up that that's happening. So please start thinking about how you intend to update your signage and your print materials. You know, Sonya, you just made a great point. It would be in their own best interest to just lower the price by two bucks and give us the money. It would be cheaper for them. And it would be a way to, if they start, because you could bet the way this is going to go down, they're going to go, oh my god, this is so hard. We're going to have to buy all the signs. And they just say, well, then don't do it. Just drop the price two bucks and a problem. Don't make this too complicated. Signs the W2, the accounting, the different checks to get rid of the different counties based for each state part, nevermind. Right. All of their feet, luch, and software and stuff probably can have all that agree to. Oh, you're so wonderful. I'm so happy. Oh, you're so wonderful. So I'm going to go ahead Tim. Sorry. All the more reason, like Sonya said, to get on this right away, because they're not giving them an excuse that we waited till the last second. You know, and I also can hear the argument coming while you've increased this by two bucks. So we're going to see less visitation because of that, too. Well, I think our residents would actually appreciate that. But on another front, I think this is the portion of the Board of County Commissioners Bingo card where we throw down the unfunded mandates and state legislations are being said. If anybody would like to point fingers at us and put any negative impacts on us, I mean, this is a state legislature past situation in recognition of the problem. So, you know, they can take it up with the legislators if they have concerns. I'd be happy to talk to my friends at DNR if something comes up. I get stuck in a room with Tim Locke quite a bit. Yeah, I would also recommend the near public landspeeding that we continue the discussion with the National Forest. They're now collecting the $5 parking fee at Matt Creek. They're collecting it up at the Zircle Circle. Soon to be on both of the pass when the improvements are done. Where we are maintaining roads to get there and in some cases, we're maintaining the parking lots. Don't they just squawk back at us about PILTS if we start talking about that? No, they've... No, it's time we bring it up. And I talk to a different four supervisor on this, on how he's handling on this district. It's a partnership we need to talk about. It's what we're always told on that. But then there's no follow through. Particularly up on Buffalo Pass, where I suggest the mic that if they're going to charge $5 to park all winter long, that we should just let them finally set it to ourselves. I like that. And, you know, actually there's some economies of scale. Or pants that. Yeah, fans that. But there's just a, you know, I don't like as a user, I don't mind paying five bucks, but I'd like the county to be covered are at least the portion of our cost of supplying that access. So it's a similar argument going on right now. That's, I think that what's happening. And the idea that it can only happen in stocks where you have a restroom, a picnic cable, and something out at a trash can. So you'll see these picnic tables. Yeah, you'll see these like crappy picnic tables thrown out now to like balance off the the required infrastructure to collect the parking fee. Outstanding. But I mean those usaries, I mean, even what you think about what we do up off of 550, we have a dedicated piece of equipment and employee that plows two miles into a parking lot, a two acre sized parking lot that we go and plow out to get snowmobiles off of 129 parking lots that the Forest Service did. We go and plow the circle off the end of seed house for that. I mean, granted, it's a convenient turnaround. And we were plowing just past the last house. Right. But then you could talk about the off path. I mean, it's, buff paths, don't clad, you know, numerous spots down and down on the flat tops and the like. And how far we go up on 16 and the like to access all the different parts of the forest and the like. And I think we should also see another white river, National Forest is buying the pink data from cell phones so they can track their tourism use in numbers. And if our forest is doing that, we should ask and get the data, that data because it really shows at least on the white river a huge broadening of impacts and use there in five years that gone from 13.5 million visitors to 18.3 in a five year period. I'm expecting that we probably have a similar scale increase to just different numbers. Yeah. Yeah, I can envision that recreation may become a topic of a future BCC retreat and a continual quest to keep up. Yeah, yeah. And if the four services and collecting that data, maybe it's something we should investigate, it's just a, there's a couple consultants who have contracts with the cell phone company to provide that. I mean, I know the speaker does. Yeah. They do it. Okay. I'll put that on the to-do list. Good. Well, good. We have like 10 minutes between this and our next item with the consultants. I did see that we got a request for support for the Sheriff's Reservoir. Again, which I'm assuming we would just naturally approve of it. Oh, there looks a four. Yeah. We got a thumbs up over there on the screen. Yeah. So let's just knock that one out and do you guys have anything else for Mike while we have him here before the consultants are on? No, just, I guess you, when this traffic study came back, the one for out there by Steamboat too, is that? Yeah, that. And I alerted Hales to speak to it a little bit. They provided finalize the report, got it to me last week while I was on vacation after that. So but Josh and Ryan and their team will speak to it a little bit. Sounds good. All right, well, I think since we have planning coming back up at 145 and that's our agenda time, we probably should hold until then. Take a few minutes. So work for folks. That sounds good. Make a brief pause and reconnect at 144. Yeah, he just. Fantastic. Well, thanks. Everybody for coming back for our last item of the day. We have a much anticipated study of county red 14 and Mike Morty will lead us to their project team. So kind of in response to the potentially proposed development in the stage coach area, we hired Hayles Engineering to perform a traffic analysis to the area's mainly along County Road 14 from the Southern intersection of 131 just south of Oak Creek, all 11 miles up to the Northern intersection with 131 just outside of city limits. I've provided you the report. Hales has been, has been great to work with. I thought that what they compiled based on traffic data and their analysis and recommendations has been great. They've been great for me to keep me on task and moving the things forward. I have provided them with just about everything that I could. The three, the three kind of proposed developments that we've gotten traffic impact studies from. The tailwater is the land of lay and the stage coach mountain resort traffic studies that provided hails with all of those, to provide analysis that reached out to Morrison Creek Metro District to see kind of the percentage of their residents that are full time, but are part time out there on top of also taking away how many additional lots are served by water and sewer, how many additional lots in the area still be developed with a vault in the well in the area for hails to putting to their analysis of the of the area and what the impacts would be to essentially the intersect, you know, all of 14 and then also on the intersection of 16 and 14. We didn't kind of reap it all the way back sort of all the way up to 12 and all the way up 16 and so on, just kind of the main collection point on 16, seeing that a lot of that traffic will have to flow through to that area. I addressed a couple of my concerns that I have in that area that I think are sort of shared in the areas that, you know, depending what happens out there in case of an emergency, you know, my main concern is the one way and one way out. Area with when the area fire chief doesn't recognize going up over the links pass as a as a suitable egress, especially in the case of wildfire and for wildfires in that area. Right. It's it's not there. So they're very aware of my concerns of the area. They are aware of the developments happening in the area. We've been out for a couple site visits to kind of take a look at signage, shoulders, just general condition of the roadways and the intersections, not to mention that they collect the data all up and down the road. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Josh Gibbons to go and fill you in and kind of give you a summary of the report. And then on the side, hang on a sec, Josh, real quick. We also worked with HALES to look at the signal warrants study at the intersection of Brandon Circle and Highway 40 in between Heritage Park and Steve O2. And they'll touch on that a little bit as well. All right. Now you can go to Josh. Yeah, thank you Mike. Appreciate it. is great to be with you today on Zoom. We're happy to be here. We got our team here to provide a quick summary of the study we completed and to answer any questions and receive any feedback that you have. So you've got myself on the call Josh Gibbons from Hales Engineering. We've got Jordy Barrett from our team at Hales as, who helped with the project. And then we also teamed with with sunny civil, we have Megan Walter from sunny civil with us on the call. And sunny helped us with some of the cost estimating for projects that we'll get into a little bit in the presentation. So you know, Mike gave a great introduction. I'm not sure I have too much to add to the intro, but yeah, essentially what we did here was kind of more of a global traffic impact study of the area for County Road 14. As Mike said, there have been smaller studies done for specific developments. And so we've taken those into account and then we've also taken to account other developments that has not been studied in any other studies. We've kind of compiled all that together to get some answers related to traffic operations, traffic safety, you know, based on both existing and future conditions. And so those are some of the things that if you've seen the study, you probably saw that and we'll go over a few of the highlights today. I will apologize. Look, I think've seen the study, you probably saw that and we'll go over a few of the highlights today. I will apologize. Look, I think you got the study in the packet. I apologize for the length of the study. The appendix pages can get kind of lengthy. But a lot of great info there, of course, to go through. So we're going to start off just with a few items. I'll have Jordy Barrett from our team cover some of the data collection items and a few other things to start off. Awesome. Thanks, Josh. closed for the season. So we we collect our data on Thursday, April 18th of this year. We also looked at a Saturday condition as well. We counted both 24 hour data that Saturday as well as the Thursday and we actually found that the highest peak hours were happening during the morning and evening kind of commuter hours on that Thursday. So that is what we decided to study. We collected data at seven different intersections along the CR-14 corridor. We also looked at C-dots available crash data, which they had for the last three years from 2021 through 2023, 2024 data weren't yet available. So we looked at those data and we also, as I think Mike touched on briefly, we did have a site visit and we went out and looked at each intersection as well as maybe kind of a few of the hotspots that we noticed from the crash data that was made available to us. So here's kind of a summary of the crash history that we saw in the area. You can see on the right side of the screen, there's kind of a map. And as we looked up in the other quarter, this table here kind of summarizes the types of crashes that we found at each intersection. So overall at the seven intersections, we studied there were eight total crashes that that had happened in those three years that we looked at. Four of those were property damage only. One was a possible injury crash. Two were suspected minor injury crashes. And then one was a suspected serious injury crash. And then it should also be noticed on the slide, but there were two severe crashes kind of at mid, not at intersections kind of at segments of the roadway between some of the intersections that we'd counted. So we looked at all those. And as the previous slide mentioned, we took those into account as we did our site visit to kind of evaluate the conditions out there to see what can be done to increase the safety. And Jordy, did you pause it? Did I, did I hear someone have a question? I thought I saw heard some audio come through, but wanted to pause the question. Yeah, if you're willing to entertain some questions as we go, that'd be great. Of course. So, I'm glad you were able to get this crash history, but I guess my comment would be that that three years may not provide statistical relevance. I mean, who knows what happened in the years previous? And kind of the one thing that jumps out at me is that of the eight crashes, sticks of them are in the location as virtually nothing to do with commuter traffic to and from steamboat. And so, you know, I mean, I understand you can only gather the data that's available. I'm just commenting that this may not be robust enough data to really drill down on what is happening or what likely may be happening on that stretch going into steamboat instead of south. And Commissioner Corgan, I had discussed with the team saying that of the crash data, some of that is probably skewed just due to the fact of slide offs and so on where someone gets towed out of the ditch or backs out of slide offs and so on where someone gets towed out of the ditch or backs out of the ditch and so on. These are these are reported crashes based on C dot based on reporting through written crashes via CSP and that's who you want all of our all of our crash data and reports. Yeah so just for your information I've been driving all of County Road 14 back and forth to steamboat for 40 years and I can assure you there are way more crashes than anything that's reflected in this data. Yeah. Yeah, we appreciate the feedback and that perspective. We recognize like Mike said, there are more incidents that are not reported likely. Usually on a study like this, we want to at least have five years of data. So we try to pull as much as we could. There was kind of a gap for some reason in the C.Dot crash data for this route specifically, which was kind of interesting. We kind of discussed that with Mike early on. So we did use the data available, but I would agree that ideally we would have wanted more as well. So thank you. Awesome. Jordi, why don't we go ahead here? I'll go to the next slide. Awesome. So, as I think Josh kind of mentioned in our intro, our study kind of has two components where we looked at the crash history, but we're also, we want to do evaluate the impacts of the future developments. And so you can see here in this table, We have summarized, land-to-lip view, land-to-lip view, the tailwater's development, and the stage coach mountain resort, and then other expected developments in the area. As you can see here, there's about just under 16,000 total new daily trips that are projected with these developments. During the morning peak hour, we have about 1150 peak hour trips and then about the same number of trips just a little bit more I guess about 1500 evening peak hour trips. And these trips were added to the road we never were especially focusing on CR-14. We also did look at some historic growth rates along highway 131. And we found that historically it's been about a 2% per year growth rate. And so we assumed that as we looked forward to our full build kind of 2040 scenario. And so with that background growth and these values, we're able to to anticipate what traffic may be like with the full build out of the area of those mentioned projects. Yeah, and also by request of the county what we do is we looked at the percentage of trips generated by each kind of development or development area. So you can kind of see that here where you know there's not one that you know has say a majority of the trips generated but you know there's a few that are definitely you know close to about a third of of the trips generated in the area. So any questions on this before we move on? Yeah, so on the total that 15,621 or actually going back to the lot, the trip generation of these developments being 18,810. Is that per week per month per year? What is that? Yeah, great great questions. These are daily trips shown here. So that's how many trips we generated per day and then 18,000. Wow, okay. And that would be the initial, there are some reductions that we the older studies took and we took as well. And any resort community, there's a lot of synergy between land uses where not everybody's going to leave, that they're home to go shop somewhere else. There's some commercial opportunities or working opportunities locally that they don't have to leave the area to get to where they need to go. So this 15,621 net trips, how does that compare to what's going on right now? To the question. That's an ask. Yeah, as far as the existing volume out there, right? Yes, exactly. Yeah, that's a great question. I could try to pull that really quick for you. I don't need it right now. It's just, are we talking about a doubling doubling or a 40% increase just a rough idea of the scale of the increase. Yeah, that's a great question. So, um, at quick glance, what's happening today on, on CR 14 is probably close to about, probably close to about 2,000 cars a day. So that's at one location, right? So if you're talking about 15,000, it is quite a bit of a jump, though, you know, not all of these would cross CR-14 at the same location. They disperse a little bit from CR-16 going to the west and to the north with more of them going to the north obviously, but that's that's kind of the addition It is pretty significant compared to what's there today more than a hundred percent. Huh? Yes, that is correct So let me make sure I'm understanding this table correctly Remind me what is the expected development? Yeah, we probably should clarify that a little bit directly remind me what is the expected development? Yeah, we probably should clarify that a little bit. Those are the additional lots that, you know, that are to be developed that have already been approved. That was the information that Mike had alluded to as well, where they're not part of any of these other developments, but they are expected to be developed at some point. Okay, so basically what we're saying in this table is that we are anticipating that the future growth of this area will increase the trips from 2000. A day to now 20,000. Essentially. 15,000. So this takes them in existing trips as well. This is all new. So we would expect to add about 15,000 trips. Some of those going west from CR 16, some going to the north. Yeah. So we're really talking about maybe something closer to a 500% increase rather than a 100% increase. Right. We're talking about 2017, 621. That's a pretty big jump. But of course, the time scale you're talking over a data 24 hour period. However, up to 2040. I mean, that full build out we're talking about exactly. And Josh can alluded to what your AM peak hour and what your PM peak hour is from where it currently sits today, which I believe is what like 16170 over that peak commuter hour that you see. And in the report, it's broken down pretty well. But you see during that peak hour from like, I think it's like eight or seven thirty to nine. You see about 165 cars at the north interception in that power. And then it jumps to 1100 at 2040 of that peak hour. And then again, at the PM, with PM hour, you see very similar numbers coming back at that intersection coming in and it jumps to almost 1500 cars in that hour. So, color commentary, color commentary, holy crap. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and also I'm a little confused about how these numbers square with some of the information we've gotten about commuting patterns because, you know, what we're hearing from Scott Ford is that we got like 800-ish people commuting on a daily basis from South Valley. So how can that only be 160 cars? That's in and out. That's like from 738 on the line. Right, during the peak out. During the peak out. That's what that's And you'll see a bunch of that information in the tables and if they get in it. Yeah, and if I could speak that yeah, yeah, absolutely If I could speak to that too, I mean like I said, it's close to probably close to about a 2000 per day that means Essentially you have a thousand people, thousand cars going north towards State Route 131 and a thousand coming back to the south during that full day. So that gets closer to that 800 number that you were talking about commissioner where it's a thousand, you know, it's closer to about a thousand, I think, as far as cars, but you know, maybe that's 800 commuters as part of that if that makes sense. Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. This peak hour data to me is about as easy to read as a scatter chart, so I appreciate the clarification. But either way, so yeah, it's still a holy crap moment, right? That's culture shock. Yeah, it is a lot of development that's assumed here. What I would all say, like it says here, we assumed a 2040 condition. That's kind of the typical future year that's analyzed, either 2040 or 2050. As we talk with Mike, I mean, I think the expectation is, we're not saying that all these developments will be built by 2040. Who knows, you know, how long it's going to take to actually build out. I'm sure some of these might be done by 2040, but it's almost, we just need to choose a year to analyze, which we did. But, you know, hopefully it may be these develop a little bit slower, and there's more time to accommodate the growth that's happening. This is what I would say, I guess. But this is entirely possible, actually. I mean, hopefully it won't happen, but it could. Just to be clear though, none of these developments have been approved yet. So I mean, we just wanna make sure that that's not misleading to the public. It looks like Alan Goldiger's here from Planning Department and Planning. I just had a question about the percent of total. So tailwaters, they're proposing 200 units. Stagecoach mountain ranch is proposing almost five times as many units as that. But tailwaters is at 29% stagecoach coaches at 37%, with that discrepancy, well with the exponential number of more units that stage coach, Mountain Resort is proposing, how do you get 29 and 37% for that share of new trips? Yeah, great question. So we were working off of the original traffic studies completed for these developments. So as I look at our assumptions for tailwaters in that study, they had the 200 units, which I think you said, the stage coach mount resort. That had assumed about 750 units, which sounds like it's less than what the number you just said. What was the number you just said for stage coach? We haven't gotten an application, but it's going to be from what we've been told, it's 800 units plus another 150 workforce housing units. So, okay. Yeah, and that might just be a discrepancy from when that other study was completed. That was kind of the assumption going into our study that we would use what's been done and add to it. So we kind of just use what was done before for those projects. There was a lot of commercial, you know, kind of assumed first age coach with some restaurant tie, retail. You know, I think there was a golf course assumed as part of that as well. So that is all assumed, but we did assume about 750 units. Any more questions on this slide before we move on? Okay. So with that future projection, we looked at level well and for C dot. You know, there's always a threshold that's set for an acceptable level of service. So the example level of service that's standard and applicable locally as well is D or better. So what we do in these studies is to try to propose mitigations if possible to get to that A through D category. If we start to see that congestion gets into the E or F category. I know this is kind of a little bit tricky for some to understand because if your kid comes home with a report card that has a D, you may not be very excited, but in traffic engineering, that is the standard that's typical. It's more about what kind of congestion are you okay with in the peak hour? And what funding is available? We don't want to overbuild our roads to the point where we lose opportunities for say, active transportation for bike lanes, trails. It's more of that balance to build the roads, the right size where we might have some congestion in the peak hour but not too much. So that's kind of a quick explanation of level of service. So as you can see, here we have the seven intersections that we analyzed along CR-14. We analyzed that existing 2024 condition, like Jordy said, on a typical weekday condition morning and afternoon morning and evening. We then looked at a kind of an assumed 2040 condition where all that development is assumed to be done without that development, which is a background condition with with some growth on the state highway, you know, things. LOS is pretty similar to existing, but as you can see that if we add the projects, which is kind of our plus project condition and we add that development in, we do get some failing levels of service at several locations. You know, and then after that we looked at potential mitigations for those. What I will say too is that when you look at level of service for a stop controlled intersection that's either like a one way stop for a T intersection or a two way stop for a four-leg intersection. The level of service is based on the worst movement. So in many cases, as you can imagine, the worst movement or the most congested is a left turn from the side street. You know, especially on the busy road, if you're trying to turn left onto a busy road, there's not a lot of gaps to use, and therefore it's difficult to do that. So with that in mind, we did propose some mitigations for some of these intersections. Some of these intersections, we did propose some mitigations to decrease the delay and improve the flow with turn lanes. And we'll show that in a minute. Turn lanes, a few acceleration lanes where cars have a spot to turn left into on their own. So it's easier to get out. In the end, there's not much you can do beyond that. Unfortunately, unless a signal is warranted or something, which in this case, we do not expect a signal to be warranted for some of these locations. So for that reason, you do still see some intersections at LOSF. And like I said, in most cases, it'll be the left turn from the side street, but everything else flows really well. So I know it's kind of a long-winded explanation, but are there any questions about those results in that methodology? Well, yeah, I do right away. So if I'm looking at this correctly, even with the medications, there's several locations that would still grade out at an F, I must why wouldn't, is that should we understand that there are no medications that can be done to improve that. That's just the way it's going to be with that many cars. Yes, for the one, the one movement at those intersections, the left turn, you know, the we made mitig point to on the north end where CR-14 ties into the state highway, and let me just pull a map over so it's a little bit easier to see. We're CR-14 ties into the state highway at this location. What we found, if all the development is added to this intersection as it is today, both left turns and right turns trying to get out of here would back up severely. You know, they would queue up a long distance down the road based on all that traffic. So one of the mitigations we looked at here was separate left and right turn lanes so that the left turns have their own lane to get out. And the right turns had a longer turn pocket so that they could bypass the left turns have their own lane to get out. And the right turns had a longer turn pocket so that they could bypass the left turns that were queued up and have minimal delay to continue on to the state highway. So in actual, we fixed the right turn issue. The left turns we proposed an acceleration lane for them to turn into to accelerate. So it's easier to get out. But like I said, the next step would be to look at something like a traffic signal for them to get out, which based on the volumes we had, since there's not a lot of people that want to turn left here and this, which is the main reason you do a signal, we don't expect it would be warranted at that location. Yeah. So there's certain things we can do to reduce delay, but to a certain point, there's a lot of intersections out there where one movement still, meaning the left turn, is still difficult to make. Thank you. I have three questions. I think two of them are probably for you, Mike, but for the consulting team, I'm looking at these Fs and I'm kind of wondering, is there a nuance to this? Like when is the trigger to get to F? I mean, because when you're looking at plus project, you're really looking at plus like four different projects, right? So is it after project A or B or C or D? I mean, is there a point at which if a certain number of units were permitted, regardless of which project they're attached to, we don't get to an S? And that's a great question. That was not part of, you know, the original scope we talked about, to phase those in and see, K, if we put in a stage coach, if it's gonna go to F, that can certainly be done obviously, but it was not part of what we did here. We could always try to kind of estimate based on the delay numbers we see. But yeah, that can't be done. It just was not part of what we had done in this study. We're going for really a bigger over, you're getting into nuance to where we're just, we hired hired hails to take a look at the fall of these go. What do we have against that kind of road 14 for this, right? And then how do based on the different projects and the trips generated from those separate projects. What do we look at as far as potential mitigation members, how much it's going to cost to improve 14 to accommodate some of this stuff? And then like you said, this is kind of an overview of what 14 is going to look like if nothing is done or if they put their you know mitigated their mitigated measures in there and so on. This is all based off of too. The previous design work that we've done from I mean, what 14 should look like is fromF 131 to 16, shoulders wide, nice curves, so on. And then this is beyond, this is also taking into account with the mitigated measures, what we currently have designed from 16 or essentially the Marina up to 131. And so, I mean, you can mitigate just about anything enough money. And then you're also going to have to get bought from the state because you're talking about what Josh is talking about when you're talking about left hand acceleration lanes and turn pockets and so on. You're talking about also having to expand one thirty one in that area, how that trickles out going back and how how the carrying capacity of what thirty one can accommodate some of accommodate some of these developments and so on. This is kind of, we went down this path as a more of like a 30,000-foot overview of the thing, not getting down into the weeds of say, if tail waters goes, then what happens? If, you know, I get it. I totally understand understand but I guess my point is this it's key takeaway here is that this is an unacceptable conclusion I mean flat out yeah so you know at what point thank you so yes I mean at what point is it not an unacceptable conclusion so that's right you know we can put that on a shelf that that wasn't part of the study because I do have a couple other questions um one is do we have at Route County a desired level of service, like where we say we can live with up to a CURD, or do we just try to do our best? I think we try and operate in the BNC zone, but we haven't, right, honestly, our roads have had the carrying capacity that we haven't necessarily dropped to those levels or have gotten to a certain point to where those levels of drop to a D and E, like things are happening sort have all of those and what your level of service and your stacking looks like there, we just haven't had the traffic to our congestion at intersections and so on, the drop our levels of service down, we do not have an established policy of we will never fall below. I'll see you in a few minutes. I'll see you in a few minutes. I'll see you in a few minutes. I'll see you in a few minutes. I'll see you in a few minutes. I'll see you in a few minutes. Okay, and then my last question is you mentioned when we were talking about the improvements to one 31 that would be needed. The state, but similarly, like if we were looking of that or would that be an acquisition? I mean, and I don't mean just this specific case I mean sort of generally broadly. No, because they'll go through they'll briefly go through the different mitigations at the at the problem intersections. You know, I mean from this adding another lane another right turn lane on, and a potentially a left hand turn lane. I think the acquisition we have for this is the just the intersection, intersect with, not necessarily creating additional stacking of traffic at this intersection. Because I think when we started the design of 14 in 2010, we didn't anticipate the development When we started the design of 14 in 2010, we didn't anticipate the development that you would see based on these three separate projects in that area. We designed it to be able to accommodate current levels of traffic, but also add shoulders, softened curves, and the like. And we acquired to the edge of the toa slope of everything. It's not like we went through and said, care widest area is 100 feet. We're going to get a 100 foot right away through here for the whole duration of the project. So a long winded answer to say no. Okay great. Commissioner Redmond, I feel like we've been monopolizing the questions a little bit. Do you have anything you want to ask before we move on? No, I'd like to see these intersections and what they're going to look like. So, I've got another question. I just want to challenge Mike a little bit. I heard you say, Mike, that with enough money, anything can be mitigated. Yet we're looking at a mitigated project that still scores an F. Help me understand. And I would defer that question mainly to the consultant looking at the data as though that mainly as Josh said on multiple occasions that it's the pesky, lucky, and turn of that now. We didn't take a look at a flyover bridge or an on-ramp or anything like that. I mean, they're in the constraints of the sort of what's buildable out there. And that's fine. We don't need to beat this to death. But I will. Echo Commissioner Macy said these Fs, at least for me, are kind of unacceptable. But maybe that informs what we approve or don't approve as development. So thank you. Yeah, those are great comments and that is honestly what happens right in certain communities where that could be a constraint traffic where you decide what you want to be approved in certain areas. You know, I think it was already said, but essentially to fix these Fs, you could certainly put in traffic signals and they would be fixed. The issue is there's certain federal warrants that go along with those that if you put them in without meeting warrants, the county is held liable or C dot is held liable. So, you know, in those cases, we don't recommend them, but that that would fix the issue. That would be a mitigation. And so things just have to be watched to see if those do get warranted at some point, if things change from what we currently anticipate. So perfect. So let's move on here. We have a lot of texture that we have a graphic on the next page. I'll probably go two inches a second. And but maybe just to speak from this list for right now. On the left side, you'll see kind of a list of safety mitigations that we felt were needed. They're numbered by the intersection number outline of the study, which is why you see kind of a non-numbering here. A lot of some of these have already been proposed, such as increasing the curb radius and eliminating a few connections along County Road 14. There's a few new ones though that we've looked at, including, you know, in from the site distance, widening shoulders, adding turn lanes. You'll see a few spots where we recommended acceleration lanes due to from site distance, widening shoulders, adding turn lanes, you'll see a few spots where we recommended acceleration lanes due to limited site distance of few spots. And then rumble strips were proposed along the corridor as well. Those are kind of the safety mitigations we looked at. And I'll kind of point to a couple of those on the map in just a second. On the red side you'll see some of the operation-based recommendations as well. We try to kind of outline them on the end of priority, not saying, you know, a phasing of when they would be needed based on which projects come in, but more based on the delay we saw the need for them, you know, as soon as, you know, whether as soon as possible, or if they can be looked at later on. But once again, you'll see a lot of recommendations for turn lanes to reduce delays as well. One of the, I think the key intersection that we looked at quite a bit was CR 16 and CR 14. Since that's where all the traffic would come in and out of, as Mike mentioned, short turn or some things that could be done there with an acceleration lane for cars turning left out, and then channelizing some of the right turn movements as well. Long-term at that intersection, that one did meet signal warrants based on our projections, and so long-term we did recommend a traffic signal at that intersection of CR-16 and CR-14. With that long term, we did recommend a traffic signal at that intersection of CR16 and CR14. With that in mind, let me show the map as well. And maybe I'll just pull it up from the study itself, just so a little bit easier to follow from there. So I'll kind of start at the top here. Like I said, at that intersection of CR 14 with the state highway. We're recommending separate turn lanes to turn left and right out of the of the county road on the state highway. We're recommending adding a lane here for acceleration for those left turns to turn to turn into. So it's easier for them to get out. Another project that was mentioned is realigning County Road 14. Currently today, of course, there's kind of these 90 degree bends that intersect with these roads off to the side, CR-14C and D. And so this has already been planned and discussed, I know, by the county. But realigning that's really going to help clean those up. There's some kind of some conflict points that these intersections that are a little bit more difficult. And, you know, kind of making that a wider curve helps the cars travel through here safely and efficiently as well, of course. At the intersection of 14A and 14B, we're recommending separate left turn lanes in both directions on the highway to reduce the lays and improve safety of that location as well. Going down to CR 16, CR 14. Like I said, long term, this could be a potential traffic signal. But kind of the short term options would be separate left and right turn lanes. Having a right turn lane off of CR 14 to turn on to CR 16. It also looking at an acceleration lane there as well. What I will say about the traffic signal and maybe I'll go to the aerial image just for a second if that's that's a little bit easier. What we're proposing that could be done here is kind of a unique traffic signal that we call a high functioning T where westbound traffic that goes through can always have a green a green light essentially. We think that's important because the hillside here does block some site distance. So it'd be better if we don't stop those cars and cause any issues there. So there's a way to do a median through the intersection here that allows them to have a protected movement to go through. And then the left turn cars from the site street can have their own lane to turn into and eventually they merge together down the road. But we think that would be the safest and most efficient type of intersection and signal that could be done here and makes things flow pretty well. So there's a little bit more detail about what we're thinking at that location. Is that required to be bridge? So at least in the short to midterm, we think that a lot of these can be done with the current bridge. You know, there is possible there could be enough room there to fit a separate egress lane like proposing. If the development occurs to the full bill we assumed. We did expect that an additional receiving lane to go south from this right turn would be needed to make it flow well enough. And so in that case, there is a possibility that the bridge would need to be modified or widened or a new structure would need to be put in place. And Josh, I'm sure you've thought about this and rejected it, but traffic circles. Yeah, great question. We did consider around about this location. There's a few constraints. Well, the first thing it did not work as well as the traffic signal did. The main constraint, I think that's difficult here for around about is the right away and the space that around about would take up this location. You've got the river so close that in the hillside on the other side that fitting that roundabout would be very challenging. So a signal fits better in the right away. But it was considered. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought the same thing. I just wanted to get it out there to make sure that it had been considered. But yeah, that steeple side the river. I get it. Yeah. Great question. talk about the last intersection as well. So here at this last intersection with the state road again on the south end, once again a lot of churn lane recommendations. Really those do have a lot of benefit as far as both safety and operations. So you'll see we recommend a separate left and right turn lanes from the side street again, a left turn lane from the state road, right turn lane, and an acceleration lane. From a safety perspective, we did find here as well that as you probably all probably know, there's some vertical curvature to the north or it goes over a hillside. Site distance can be limited in that direction, which is another great reason to have this acceleration lane here as well. Any questions on any of those improvements? Okay. I'll turn some time over right now to Megan from Sunny Civil. Like I said, they helped out with looking at the potential costs for some of these. Hi everyone. Thanks for having us. Megan Walters, Sunny Civil. We are Civil and Roadway engineers based out of Fort Collins. So we've partnered with Hales in the past on a variety of projects and we're happy to partner on this to basically what we did is we looked at all the recommended areas. We sketched up some designs, very, very preliminary designs, but so that we could look at, when they say we need an acceleration lane added how much shoulder, how much road are we talking about, how long those roads are. So we created those schematic designs and then took those numbers along with recent data from C.Dot projects from DIDTADS in the area from general good practice engineering of the cost of each of those items, broke it out and then these are the costs that would be associated with each of these areas. These costs do not include the acquisition of right away, but I do believe Mike that we have acquired right away for the 2013 plans from the North 131 down to just north of stage coach. So these are our ballpark costs. Again, you know, this is a pretty rudimentary design and we took into account as much as we could in terms of grading in terms of pavement addition and then at the bottom there there's a rec commendation from hails to put in rumble strips along the entirety of CR-14 so that's a budget of 150,000 that really million for the purpose of discussion as a total. And we still get to F on certain levels of service. And one more caveat, we estimated these as if a contractor was doing them solo. So if they were able to be combined, you could potentially have some efficiency and cost there from a contractor, getting on site, equipment and whatnot, but that's correct, yes. These are the costs at, you know, the recommendation of hails and a few of them were still level service staff, yeah. So I'm going to like to point out that those numbers don't include the realignment through the two 90 degree turns. So that's 1467 and nine, two and three are those two 90 degree turns. So that's not even listed on here. I am. Eight million bucks on top of the, at the time when I applied for grants in 14, 15 and 16, at $15 million to rebuild the road from North of the Marina up to the 131 North. So these are on top of the design based on those going on too or accommodating for these developments. So I've got a couple of quick comments. And by the way, thank you for putting these numbers together. I totally understand that there's quite a bit of speculation here involved in terms of actual conditions. And I'm not sure what Megan, what your experience is with estimates compared to actual costs at the time. Hours has been a fairly negative experience. I would just multiply this by two right off the top, just to get to something that's probably going to be real. And then it is counterintuitive to me that at the south end, we've got $3 million worth of work to do. And at the north end we've only got $1.7 million worth of work to do. When you know my anecdotal observation is that the issues around the north end not on the south end. I mean, that's where all the most of the traffic is going, back and forth to steamboat. And then finally, and I understand why this is not included, but I think it's something for us at the county to think about. This, the focus of this study has been on these intersections. And I have very few criticisms of what you guys have put together. But to me, the real safety issues on County Road 14 are shoulders and guard rails. And that's something Mike that we may need to take a second run at, because if we're really looking at potentially quadrupling or quintupling, the traffic especially down through the corkscrew, you're going to have all kinds of wrecks because you don't have shoulders and because you don't have adequate guardrails. Yeah, and one thing you do is we're really ending on the high notes today with this meeting, aren't we? One thing I will add to that, you know, it's not shown on this map specifically. It is kind of shown in the cost. We did look at guard rail. About a mile east of the south intersection with highway 131. There was a severe crash at that location. So that would be one location. Obviously there could be some others that could be looked at there, but that would be one location for the guardrail. Yeah, if you look at the cost estimate number nine for 150,000, essentially, I'm not sure how many linear feet that ended up being, but if there's other areas that were identified, you know, that could use guardrail, you could sort of overlay that number to those areas to add it. And that was some advisory speed signs, Chevron signs added, you know, kind of that you're right, Commissioner Corgan, that could be added to different areas along the whole Unfortunately some of the areas especially in the what we call the corkscrew the The engineering challenges to get in guard rails are immense compared to This section that you've identified on the south end And in a couple a couple, if I can add to this, believe why you see $3 million on the South Intersection Commissioner of Oregon is because you have just a straight two lane highway in that spot. So you're talking about significant pavement widening and so on to create these accelt decilings there where you've already had that significant widening and so on to create these Excel D cell lanes there where you've already had that significant widening at the Northern intersection. There's turning lane. Just you've already got that kind of infrastructure in place, but you'll have to add more, you'll have to lengthen the Excel D cell lanes and so on and so forth. And then to add to your concern about the corkscrew and so on, again, these estimates are on top of what's already proposed for the section of road through the jacket pass through. This isn't just the improvements being made. This is on top of it. I send them the plans that we designed in 2013 and they took an analyst or they analyzed from essentially the Marina North to 131 based on what we have in that proposed design and then took a look at the inadequacies of the you know kind of roadway and intersections in that area. So this is on top of the widening, the shouldering, and the proposed signage, and stuff that we've already took a look at. And did you throw a $15 million number on that? It's how it's back up in 15 or 16. It's 25 million now easily. It's plus really another 10 probably really.'s probably about 40 million dollars. Yeah, it's a huge I don't want to divert us from the grim topic of the financial Right this situation we're looking at but we do have not that much more time on our agenda So if we want to get through some other things I want to make sure we leave time for that Yeah, any other final questions? Great. No, that's why we that's why I kept interrupting, so we didn't have to save any time for this. Well, thanks. That was a good good thing to do. I guess and we still get to an end. Yeah, I mean, I think the only question that I would have is, you know, well, two questions really one is, you know, can we do some additional analysis of that getting to F and. So, you know, what 500 units were at a C and a thousand, whatever it is. If we can get that additional information, I think that would be incredibly helpful. And then the other question I have is that, you know, we've commissioned the study presumably with route county dollars, but essentially in response to developments going on. So when we look to the developments to pay their fair share of construction, do we then recoup pass like this as well? I think that was the initial intention behind the study was to A, B, out ahead of that instead of reacting, creating roadway improvements, reacting, trying to keep somebody on the hook, but just to have an overview look at, what the impact of that development would have on County Route 14 and be kind of a head of it to be able to start creating some sort of... We also want to... Whatever you want to call it, Bosch Air. Yeah, I mean, it could be the basis for some future cross share agreements between developers, but we also wanted to get this data in place on our own without developers, consultants coming for if projections that then we are challenging the whole time. And when you talk about number of units, it's going to be more than that because it it's also type of units and occupancy levels. So we've already had this agreements with at least one projects on traffic studies based on projected occupancy levels. So this just helps us kind of set the table as we move forward with them. But there's a way higher level of analysis needed for when we look into the detailed studies on the different phases of some of these projects coming forward. But I'm just asking are we going to charge them for this? Oh, for this study. I don't know if we have to talk with Eric on that whether we have the basis for it because I think this was to collect the data that we could keep control of. So I don't have a clear answer to that. Okay. Well, that's fine. But our investment in this is, Hales has been very reasonable on pricing. It's not, you know, huge. But I think it gives us a good start. I do think that we'll be looking at engaging, Hales down the line to be our traffic expert as he's brought you some forward. And we look at having those cost the reimburse this part of any review process. Okay. Did you have something before you move on? Yeah, just curiosity. All right. We put these projections together and we come up with an F. I'd like to see what it would cost to get to a more acceptable, you know, a D, exactly, because I can't see spend in this kind of money and winding up at an F. I guess what I can say to that, like I said, the next step to get to that acceptable would be a traffic signal at all three of those locations probably that had enough. Now, like I said, we don't think they may or may not be warranted at that time. In that cost estimate, there was one signal that was estimated close to about $500,000. So if you could imagine you could you could add that cost on top of, you know, what the cost is already there. So, you know, three additional signals, $500,000 each. That'd be another 1.5 million to get it all to be acceptable. And I'm going to guess that C-DOT's going to be not all that happy about putting stop signs on their state highways. Exactly. Right. Yeah, and that's why we didn't recommend it because it'd be very difficult to get it approved if it's not warranted. That would be the next step to get it to work, I guess. So just think that by a level service F does not guarantee that you meet warrants. Right. Right. Um, okay. So it does anybody have any burning thoughts or questions that we need to address before we move on to the other intersection. I was told there would be at least an update on what we think about steam, about two and a half. Yeah, I'm very curious as well. Yeah. I'm good for now. So I have, I have a bunch of questions that we can talk about later, but I'd like to thank these guys for this information they brought us. It's super helpful for me to get my mind around what we're up against. Thank you. Yes, agree, well said. Yeah, of course. OK, well, I can provide a quick update then on Brandon Circle. Let me share my screen again. So for our discussions with Mike and others, we looked at this intersection of Brandon Circle and US 40 for a potential traffic signal. In addition, we were asked to look at pedestrian improvements, if there could be any made here. The issue, as we understand, of course, is that for both vehicles and pedestrians, it's very difficult to traverse around this area. A Brandon circle, it's heavy, especially with school traffic and whatnot. We understand it's very congested. And for pedestrians, it's obviously dangerous to cross a high speed road. We understand that some people try to cross with the intersection. And we also understand based on what Mike has told us and based on our own observations that some kids not not shown on this screen, of course, is the and I apologize and blinking on the name of the school. The new school. What was that again, sorry, sleeping giant sleeping. Yeah, so kids trying to get to the sleeping giant school from the south side of us 40. It appears that a lot of them will use this trail that's been built by in the community, but then use this. You know, connection point that's been created and you know by, by whoever to cross at an un, unmarked, unsigned location here to get across, which of course is very dangerous. Like I said, it is high speed and the sight distance is not very good around that curve. As we all know. So all that being said, based on the traffic volumes on a typical weekday with school in session, let me just pull this out. We did have a summary slide. We did find that, I'll call it this here. There we go. Traffic signals were met at the Brandon Circle location. The signal warrants look at various different time periods or number of hours when they do that. So what the federal guidelines call warrants two and three were met for kind of a peak hour condition, but also a more spread out four hour condition warrants were met in current conditions. And so a signal can berants based on Colorado standards. We're very close to meeting the warrants for a school crosswalk. It's not met currently, though I imagine that if a traffic signal goes in that students and school children will feel more comfortable crossing there. And that we could mark one of those crosswalks as a dedicated kind of high visibility school crossing for kids across the highway with a protected pedestrian phase there. So those are kind of the conclusions that we had in our study. We sent to Mike was that a traffic signal may be installed. Additional pedestrian enhancements could be considered. If for some reason a traffic signal is not installed or if it's delayed, we talked about a couple options. The main one would be if we're trying to get kids to cross the highway safely, it is a long way around but one option could be to extend this trail network along the highway down to the signalized intersection at County Road 42 to get to the Sleeping giant school as one option. That would help the pedestrian's obviously, but it would still be difficult for cars to navigate the Brandon Circle intersection. One thing that was just discussed briefly was the option of a pedestrian tunnel to cross US 40. Obviously that has its own challenges both based on cost funding and the perception of safety in some cases, it's not desirable in all locations, but that was one thing that was discussed briefly. As part of all of this, we recommend that students be discouraged from crossing US 40. I don't know if that's, you know, with signage at minimum probably. But you know, if fencing is an option, this is just an unsafe location to cross and any discouragement helps to get kids across at a better spot. So any questions on that brief update for that? Do you have enough room there for a circle? That looks a little bit better or more possible. Come on now. First trailers. You got traffic circles work if you have enough space to make them big enough. Yeah, and you know, Commissioner Corrigan, you know, certainly there probably is room to put one here. As mentioned, it would probably have to be pretty wide, pretty large, of course, to get horse trailers around there and other large vehicles. So, it could be considered, you know, especially for the pedestrians that we would expect that would come through here, it would have to be designed appropriately for those pedestrians. Certainly an option. In this case, based on the high speeds, I think C dot would be more in favor of a traffic signal, I mean, if we were going to put a traffic signal at this intersection, there would be a dedicated time frame for a pedestrian signalized crossing, correct? Yeah. So, the incentive would be, you know it would it would there would be pedestrian push would have a crossing time when North South traffic is able to go as well. Oh, God. Sure. But along with that, there's certain things you can do. For example, if our crossing was on the east side of this intersection, we could set up the signal timings. So left turns from the north, maybe have a red light for a time just to make sure it's extra safe for the kids across. Yeah, it would be, I'm thinking of the intersection of highway 40 and county road 129. Um, that has full signalized pedestrian crossing times. Right. It seems like we'd have to, seems to me that that should be done at a minimum. Yeah. Commissioners, we have reaffirmed our commitment to this project earlier this morning, already having discussed it. But we do have a couple of folks in the audience who I know have been tracking the project. I'm wondering if anybody's going to object to a little bit of public comment. We have two people here in person, Commissioner Corgan. Are you good with hanging tight a little bit longer? You back no problems. Yeah, let's hear from our public. That's good. We don't always entertain public comment on Mondays, but we do have some very passionate advocates for this project. So happy to hear from you folks. Okay, sit here. Yeah, if you don't mind introducing yourself and who you're representing, that'd be great. Happy to. Hi, I think I've met most of you, Emily Byer, and I'm here on behalf of the Safe Crossing Committee. So I'm representing all of the folks that sign that petition that was sent to you this past fall. You know, that includes a lot of parents in the Westingboat neighborhoods, and includes teachers at the Montessori School retirees that live in these West steamboat neighborhoods of steamboat 2, Heritage Park, and also Silver Spur, but also folks from all across the county that have witnessed the safety concerns at the intersection. So kind of general comments on behalf of the committee. I think the main thing that we want to share with you all today is thank you. We really appreciate you all responding so quickly to the urgent safety concerns at the intersection. We appreciate your leadership in writing the letter to the CDOT to the TPR and now for conducting the signal warrant study. It's really reassuring to us as residents when our elected officials respond quickly and it's clear that you agree that the intersection poses safety issues. So thanks to your leadership here at the county, it looks like we now have the movement data to confirm what we have been witnessing and urging you all to take a look at. We've been seeing these concerns for many many years and of course the traffic light at this intersection is long overdue as I think anyone that's found out to see the situation there agrees with us. I think you're all aware that even back in 2010, the NEPA West Steemboat study was recommending a signal at this intersection. So if you're feeling the urgency from folks, it's because we've been waiting quite a long time and we want to continue this great momentum and this wonderful partnership with you all to move things to the next phase. You know, in that traffic study that was taken, it doesn't even take into account some of the looming development that's that looks like it's going to take place in Heritage Park. There's 10 lots there that are getting ready to be developed. And in talking with Alan, I understand that's, you know, approximately another 80 vehicle trips a day. So more development is coming. And if we have the data to move forward, we're really just asking for your continued leadership to act on the information in this new study before any deaths occur at the intersection. You all know best that a shovel ready project is a requirement to apply for many of these grants and other funding sources and that would include the Congressional Directorate's spending that we've talked with Senator Bennett's office about as a possibility. And with this traffic study now complete, we believe the county has a responsibility to act on that information without delay. So to expedite the traffic signal project, our Safe Crossing Committee is asking the commissioners, you all, to commit some add-up, but funding in the 2025 budget to complete the design and engineering plans for that traffic signal. In addition, we're prepared as a committee to assist and we will be back in school on both sides of the highway and we invite you all to visit the intersection during those peak commuting hours to observe kids crossing the highway while cars travel 65 miles per hour. I think you all have had the chance to see that and that's why we've been partnering together. We continue to respectfully urge the commissioners to make rapid progress on both the traffic signal as well as the pedestrian underpass. We really believe both projects together address a comprehensive solution to safety at the intersection. It's not one or the other. I think anyone that takes a look at the way people and cars are moving at this intersection, it really does require both. And we understand they will move forward on different timeframes. We're urging you all to take that next step and keep up the momentum. And we're really encouraged to hear the city's making progress on the cord trail expansion. It's looking like the regional transportation authority will go before voters next year. And these residents of the Westinboat neighborhoods are really looking forward to this continued partnership with the county to ensure that we all have safe access to all of the wonderful amenities in our community. And we really just ask and request that you prioritize county funding towards infrastructure and these established locals neighborhoods before you prioritize any infrastructure investments in new developments. Thank you very much for that comprehensive set of comments. Would you care to make a comment? I mean, no, I think everyone speaks for the whole committee. So yeah, great. Hey, if I could, well, while you're still sitting there, I do drive through that every morning coming in to come to work and I've been watching this situation for years and I would also encourage you to use some of your political muscle, not only on the county commissioners, but to start working on C.DOT, I will tell you as a former councilman and mayor of the town of Aiden, I had a safe routes to school grant in my back pocket for three years that I could not execute because C dot would not finish their side of the engineering and in the end they came to me and said you didn't spend the money on time so give it back. So just want you to understand who the big bully in the sandboxes? Yeah, okay I think that's a good suggestion and you know let's not forget also that the school could be a player in a partnership type of oriented. Actually should be. Right. Right. OK. Let's get back to the commissioners and any follow-up that we need to do from this discussion. I think we've heard the request from the committee for the 2025 budget. I think we have that already on our radar considering that we have matching funds for the Safe Routes to School. So I think that's a check. The other piece is that Commissioner Corrigan, for the State Council to school. So I think that's a check. The other piece is that Commissioner Corrigan, you are our representative on the regional transportation authority committee. I personally think this is a spectacular flagship project for this type of thing. I mean, I know everybody is focused on buses and other types of people moving, but this is a very visible, very unsafe situation that could be improved with that. So I'd love for us to make sure we keep it in the mix for the immediate projects list. Obviously this is longer term, but they can't hurt. Is there anything else, Commissioner Corrigan, you had something there? Hey, Megan, did you throw a number at this? No, we didn't. Yeah, we had a couple options in mind and this has come together a little bit later than the other study. So we can and we do have it in our scope to do that. Okay, great. And I think yeah, yeah, yeah, anxious to get my mind around what that number is. And then just a general comment as commissioners, we live with the sins of our fathers and the approval of those subdivisions out there without thinking through some of this stuff is frustrating. And I hope that we as commissioners make sure that we don't leave that kind of legacy for future commissioners make sure that we don't leave that kind of legacy for future commissioners. I think this work that we're doing to understand the traffic patterns at Stakescoach is an example of the kind of work we need to do before we approve this stuff instead of just letting people build some divisions and then go oh my goodness there's a traffic problem. So. Yes, thank you for bringing that up. I really appreciate it because I think also what's important to recognize is that we did exclude this area from the master plan changes in zoning. There was some consideration of adding it to a more density, which, you know, when we discussed it, obviously it would not have been a material difference, but I think it just sort of indicates that we've had a discussion about this area in addition to the traffic issues, there are water issues, and we just don't want to continue to compound the sins of our fathers as you put it. So with that, is there anything else that our consulting team would like to share, Mike, Jay, anything that you want to conclude with or are we pretty well done? Just a quick thing, the Safe Brought to Schools funding for design work would probably work for the underpass, but not the signalized intersection, correct? I think so. So we'll need to look at what alternative funding may be available for intersection design. And because I don't believe that's currently within our draft budget at this point, you know, very, very early in the process, but roughly probably a hundred to 120 to design. I guess is what I've seen for that. So we'd have to figure out how incorporate that if we don't know if you're going to be in the office. I'm going to be in the office. I'm going to be in the office. I'm going to be in the office. I'm going to be in the office. I'm going to be in the office. I'm going to be in the office. I'm going to be in the office. I'm going to be in the office. I'm going to be in the office. I'm going to to hear reached out to Mark Robbyers, the regional planner as well as Justin, the resident engineer for the area on next steps where we go, how we kind of move this along down the down line because they are, so they're road that we'd be putting a signal on. Exactly. Well yes, mean, I think the more that we can engage them as a partner and at every TPR meeting, we're bringing this up to make sure we have supportive our group if there's any possibility of funding there. But we've been kind of reaching some awkward silence when we bring that up. We're not getting a lot of commitments, I guess. I'd say. I have to come up with a strategy to jump on. Yeah, exactly. Well, as you know, as I've told you, it took seven years for me to get a crosswalk to the high school in Hayden. Well, let's end on a more optimistic note that it won't take us that long because we're pretty good at. We're pretty good at walking beside our normal processes on things that are important like the train. And so we'll continue to focus on getting it done. Thank you very much folks for your time. We appreciate you being here today and the study has been hugely helpful as Commissioner Corrigan said. Unless there's anything else, I think we are adjourned for the day. Have a good one, we'll see you tomorrow Tim. Thanks everybody. Thanks Josh, thanks Megan, thanks Brian. Thank you.