We had to call the meeting to order. Commissioner Aaron Todd. You want to lead us in the front? Absolutely. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not call for can I get a local vice chair Cameron Carrizalos President Commissioner Aaron Todd President Commissioner Ashley Comley President Commissioner Derek Frash President thank you moving on to item three oral communications for citizens to present or comment on non-related agenda items but within the responsibility of Fillmore Planning Commission. We don't have any cards today, so we'll move past that. Moving to item four, consent calendar. Item four A, minutes of April 16th, 2025, regular planning commission meeting. Do I have? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes is published. Do I have a second? All second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Passes 4-0. All right. Move on to item five, oath of allegiance. Item five, a Alex Flores, who was appointed to the Planning Commission by the Mayor and City Council on April 22nd, 2025 to a term expiring on January 31st, 2027, to take the oath of allegiance before Planning commission clerk. Jake. I have to do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California and the Constitution of the State of California against all enemies and form of domestic, form of domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of the United States, and to the Constitution of the State of California, and the Constitution of the State of California, that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, that I take this obligation, meaning, without any mental reservation, or purpose of evasion or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge and I will, I will and faithfully discharge. Based on the end of the end. No, it's all right. It's all right. Discharge the duties, discharge the duties upon which I am about to answer. Upon the push on the last one.ores. All right. Moving on to item 6, election of plan commission chair. Do we have a motion to elect? So, I think we have a motion to elect. Nominate. Yeah, that's a measure. So typically we have nominations. Nomination. So I would like to thank you for the clarification. I'd like to nominate Cameron Carz car sales for chair. How second? Or do we not do that? Yeah, that's fine to have a second. Are there other nominations that could be brought up now? If not, no other nominations could vote on me. Yeah, Aaron. Aaron took my nomination, so I was going to nominate Cameron as well. There it is. Okay. All right. Do we have a vote all in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Passes 5-0. So since I have taken the seat as chair, we will now hold election for item 7, Commission Vice Chair. We have an nomination. Yeah, an all-nominate commissioner Todd for Vice Chair. That was a second. Yeah, second. Any other nominations? All right. With that, we will take a vote on favor. Hi. Hi. Hi. Passes 4-0. I guess even 5-0? All right, thank you. We'll take a moment. I guess, reach. Yeah. All right. Moving on to item 8 public hearings. We do not have. All right. Moving on to item 9, business items 9A training session on the general plan. We give them by this staff.. Thank you, Chair. Planning Commission, City of Fillmore. Being that we don't have projects, and we have a relatively new commission almost across the board here. And we took this evening with the seating of Commissioner Alex Flores as an opportunity to do some initial basic training on planning and planning, the basis of planning is found in what we call the land use element. It's a component of the general plan and the general plan is the basic governing document of the entire city when it comes to land use. So let's start in with that. So the general plan, the land use element, you know, we said just a training tonight, so you're just gonna review and become familiar with it. It establishes a vision for the city, there was a visioning process that was undertaken a couple decades ago when the general plan was last updated. And so the document itself is embodies what the community has envisioned for the future. It's not a document created by Director McSweeney or his assistance or by the city attorney is developed by the community. So when we talk about the general plan and the Land Use Element and the implementing tools such as the municipal code, we're really talking about the community's documents. So these are governing land uses. And the vision is the overall statement is to foster a thriving small town atmosphere in which civic pride, personal well-being and a balanced economy are nurtured and protected. It's actually a very good all-encompassing vision. The land use element is required under state law and the general plan itself, I should say, is required under state law. And the general plans are required to have numerous elements. And the land use element in particular is sort of what I would refer to as an all-encompassing. It takes into account all of the other more specific, more scientific type analysis and incorporates it into a distribution of land use across the city that that takes that implements what all the scientific findings are. So the Land Use element, as I mentioned, it creates a Land Use map more or less, and the informing analysis within the other elements of the general plan help us to lay out that general plan Land Use Map. So things like circulation, housing, where it should go, where should sensitive noise uses be placed. You know, so you look at relative to the state highway or relative to industrial zones, you want to make sure they're compatible. Safety is their adequate accessibility for fire, for police. Where are the flood zones? Where are the fire hazard zones? And how do you plan accordingly? We have something now called environmental justice, which will be implemented in our next update to the general plan. And that just looks at distribution of land uses to make sure that under privileged communities, minority communities aren't being overburdened by land uses that are environmentally impactful. Public facilities, that's gonna be your water, your sewer, your sewer service capacity to treat your sewer waters looking at supply. So how much, you know, film or is in the, we rely on groundwater exclusively, it's all local. So when it comes to water supply, that informs land use, planning and land use decisions to ensure that there's water supply. And also that the water infrastructure is there to convey that water. Wells pipelines, et cetera. Conservation and open space areas. This one is not as relevant as it used to be when it comes to a city boundary. You hear in Ventura County because we've locked in the city boundary with a perimeter, what we call the curb, city urban restriction boundary. And it basically locks in what's considered city and county, and you have to go through an annexation process to bring any more land outside the city, sphere of influence into the city. So we're pretty much on the lockdown, and so the conservation open spaces generally the area is outside of city limits. And that's true for all of Interac County. So the basic components of what's in the land use element, like I said, it creates land use categories and these are generally very big broad categories. It establishes residential, commercial, industrial, open space. And each one of those broad categories are broken down further into various intensity of uses within those. You have various densities of residential, from high density, multi-family down to rural residential. And those are all defined within the Land Use element. Same thing with commercial, you have neighborhood commercial, which are small, neighborhood serving liquor stores, for example, or small grocery up to commercial highway zone, which establishes a lot more use for intensive uses industrial. We have very little industrial use in the city. What we do have is being used a lot for storage. And we have industrial space being allowed in our business park and we'll get into that a bit further. And we have some open space public services across the river, mainly. So our land use map is a visual representation of where these land use categories are distributed throughout the city. It also establishes goals and policies for how we will implement these land use designations. It provides direction and desired outcomes and they provide policies which are specific statements to guide our decision making or your decision making I should say. And it also includes implementation measures which identifies actions and programs to carry out those goals and policies. And we look at all of these things when a project or a zone change or map change, anything is coming through in our application process. These are the types of things that we go through and evaluate to ensure that any kind of project is going to be consistent with the goals and policies. Examples of goals, I just picked out a handful. You all received copies of the full land use element. I believe it's about 60 pages, so there are quite a number of goals, policies, and implementation measures in there. I just selected three of those here. Maintained city, small town, rural character, to enhance physical, emotional, and mental wellbeing of the residents. Provide unique physical and social characteristics, high quality urban design, architectural integrity, overall appearance. Ensure the land uses are consistent with the desired community. And again, these are goals established by the residents of Fillmore. Policies include under land use, things like retaining the scale and character of existing residential neighborhoods, facilitate upgrades and declining of and mixed useuse density in residential neighborhoods provide high-end housing provide distinctive architectural design and site planning Last meeting we had we had a meeting on design standards that we were hoping to encompass That's you know kind of carrying out one of these these policies Incorporate streetscapes. These are some of the interesting ones that that we implement. We make sure everything is consistent throughout. We review the land use element periodically. And we maintain these measures going forward. And some of them become outdated because the general plans are in effect for 20, 30 years. And information, new information comes from the land use element. because the general plans are in effect for 20, 30 years and information. New information comes to light pretty regularly. So, things change and we continue to work with within the confines of the Landview Seliment. It incorporates environmental constraints. So these also play into some of the safety aspects. You have fault zones that are changing periodically as new information is discovered. Fault zone, I'm sorry, flood zones, slopes, unstable soils, as more and more geotechnical studies are done. New information comes out, that information gets mapped so we generally know where those are. And the city, you can see the city limits here are defined by a lot of the natural characteristics. The environmental constraints have more or less defined the boundaries of the city. And that is all informed how our land use map is laid out. This is the actual land use map. It's a bit dated. We no longer have something called the Pan Am site or the Johnson property. Those were given to the county. Back at the time of the approval of the bridges project, I believe it was through some lawsuit action. That property was taken out of the city's sphere of influence. But otherwise, the general configuration is still consistent by today's land use designations. So you have there, as I mentioned, we have residential, commercial, industrial, kind of those broad categories. And then this map provides a color coded legend there for some of the more breakdown of how those categories are distributed. We're all residential, obviously, is up toward the foothills. And then you have your lower density residential. And your most intensive use is within the central business district. That's in red. That adds that has the, that is the most beneficial or the most diverse in terms of land uses that are allowed It allows for very high residential Multitudes of commercial type developments So that's really the heart and soul of the city And then it kind of spreads out from there and the pink is the commercial highway zone And some of that commercial highway zone is changing as you well know from our last meeting. But generally this kind of gives you a basic idea of how the city lays out and not much will change from here going forward but there'll be some adjustments. Within the general plan or within certain areas of the city we have things called let me just go back in. This also you'll see on here it also identifies certain things like specific plans so you have your your southeast specific plan area. That's what it was called at the time Heritage Valley Park specific plan. I think some of you folks may live in there. You have what's called the North Film War specific plan. So those specific plans further break down into certain areas, so certain neighborhoods where you want to maintain it, a unique characteristic. We'll have its own sets of policies, goals, implementation measures, and more specific design guidelines throughout. So that's another element of the land-use plan that kind of tears off. So we have numerous of those. We have the downtown specific plan, as I mentioned. There's a lot of detail in terms of how the character of the downtown will look over time. We have the Heritage Valley Park specific plan. As you know, it's called the Bridges. We have the North Filmor specific plan. That's how you have the Creekside project that your body reviewed a couple of years back and that's currently grading right now. And there's more than half of that land still available. And then we also have the Fillmore Business Park, which was called the South East specific plan area, but that's been defined as its own book of goals, policies and very specific design measures for that development. It also incorporates what we call the overlay districts. In our last meeting, some of these overlay districts were utilized or they were brought up by a commissioner Ashley. So she was right on target with, where is our conservation preservation area? This helps to establish that boundary so that everybody knows where that is and where those specific design guidelines are placed. You have your specific plan overlay, your hillside, and we'll be adding the housing overlay that your body just recently considered. So that will be added to this map going forward. And just to give you an idea of where this all rests in the overall process for a land use entitlement, development project, or say a zone change, or zone map change, that's sort of all in red there that's the zoning and general plan compliance. So that just shows you kind of where it is in the overall big picture of how land use entitlements are processed. And then as I mentioned, the land use element incorporates all of those other elements that are scientifically based. And so it's not just planning who's reviewing those elements and coming up with the data. There's a heavy coordination effort inside the city with all the departments, engineering public works, fire police, and everybody else that has a stakeholder in how the city is laid out. When the project comes to you or a land use decision comes to you, you're required to make findings. So, every one of your projects that attach to the back or attach in the packet is your findings. It's in the form of a resolution and the findings within there are Defined in the municipal code and they vary depending on what type of land use decision you're making But that is really the heart and soul of what your your body is Reviewing as you'll you'll need to make those findings in everyone in your decisions And if you can't make the findings you can can't approve the project. So as I mentioned, these documents are the community's documents and so as we staff present our analysis to you as to whether we think the community's documents are being upheld by a particular project, then it's brought to you. And we normally want to recommend approval. You know, we're always working with projects to get them to approval, to get to where we can make the findings. Very rarely do we come in and recommend Nile on something. Because we're always working to make sure that we can make those findings. So our recommendation is typically that you can make the findings, but you don't always have to. you can disagree with staff. You can say we don't feel it meets these findings. Some of those findings as examples I've included in here. Is it consistent with the general plan? Is it harmonious and compatible? Is design location and characteristics consistent with interest? Public interest health, safety, convenience. Is the site physically suitable? Is it consistent with the municipal code? So those are the findings you're making when you make a decision. And that's it, and I'll be happy to help answer any questions and I think Kevin may have some color commentary to add as well. I just want to say first of all that was a very good presentation so you just understood the basics of the land use element right there. The City Council just adopted its budget and in that budget is the initiation to start a new general plan. We'll start that in this fiscal year between 2025 and 2026. And we'll select two planning commissioners to be on something called the General Plan Advisory Committee council members and staff members and members of the public. It's a public driven document. While public hearings and ultimately this may take five to seven years. So we are just at the very very beginning starts ten night. Right? Just learn tonight.'ll ask that you attend future conferences and seminars to study the general plan and study the accompanying document called an Environmental Impact Report. Here's the current Environmental Impact Report from 2003 for the general plan. This is a rather small version of Environmental Impact Report. So you often have two and three volumes like this or bigger. So it's an undertaking that you'll be heavily involved in, but this is a good example. You're want to welcome a comment review. If you take a look at your packet that was given to you, but from Brian on page LU37, you'll see a table, table LU7. That's, I'm going to throw some terminology that you're going to learn. No. It's a general plan build out. As Brian mentions, a 20 or 30 year document, and we analyze what will the city ultimately become. What do we plan and prepare for? So you will notice we've identified the number of dwelling units, residential units. When we did this in 2001, we started in 2000, actually 1997, we didn't get it adopted until 2001, and revised in 2005 and 11. But you'll see we started with 3,898 dwelling units. We expected the build out to be 5,816 dwelling units. We're pretty close to reaching that. We're at about 5,200 residential units right now. And then you'll see in the text at the bottom our population figure. We had anticipated by the year 2020. We'd have a population of 22,693. We're currently at 17,000 people somewhere in there. So that's General Plan build out figure. Take a look at the maps that Brian showed you tonight. Everything was based on that one sheet of paper, the land use map, all those documents and years worth of work. It comes down to that one sheet of paper, really. So think about where you put things and stuff like that. I don't have anything to add from Brian from Brian's presentation. I don't take any questions. Yeah, I mean, just real quick. Like, for example, Kevin worked on the sewer plant, the sewer treatment plant. And that was designed based on the data that Kevin just mentioned. The buildouts can include this many people. How much sewer is that? How big does that sewer treatment plant need to be? And that was built what Kevin about 20 years ago, close to 20. In 2008, 2009. And so that had to project out into the future. So it's capacity, we're very lucky to have a plant like that that's already been built in place for future build-out of the general plant because we know it has the capacity going forward. Oftentimes you don't have that necessarily and it's a major constraint. So the fact that we have that sewer treatment plant in place, which is based on the numbers that coming out of the land use element of the general plan, we have that infrastructure in place, so that's excellent. Yeah. Just as one example of how it works on the ground. Any questions? I've gotten one that I can think of right now. When the environmental impact reports are created or generated or modified or amended, do they take into consideration like the wash area for example? I know that the FAA has a flight path through there for the U.S. aerobatics team. And some questions that have came up are why do they continue to fly that path because housing has pushed out almost to the creek or the wash area. And then after the plane crashed in Seamy Valley, completely unrelated but residential area is that considered when environmental impact reports are generated or amended? It can be. So, you'll ask that question. There will be a time in the environmental document where the consultant will ask, hey, what things do you want studied? At that time, you tell them I want noise studied, air traffic, I want normal vehicle traffic studied. You start identifying the things that you want studied. But we're going to ask the public, what do you want studied? And then we're going to conduct those studies. That would be something that would come up under safety most likely. And if we had, if we project future development in the you know, the flight path, then that would be a definite factor that would be looked at. Just to piggyback on Brian's point, just there, the environmental impact report for these large planning documents tend to focus on the environmental impacts of what new anticipated development might be not necessarily existing. Right. Development. So it's not necessarily intended to be a study of everything that's happening in the city, it tends to focus on the future, what might be impacts of the long range development. But couldn't noise technically be considered? Yes, we're going to have to do a noise study. Noise would be considered, but it would work in the case of, are you land use planning such that those sensitive uses aren't going to be impacted by noise? It wouldn't be as if we would create a general plan environmental impact report and require the FAA or the Santa Paula Airport to change their flight paths. It would be the reverse like Michael's saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is kind of an issue that comes up in legal cases. Sometime what's the extent of the studies required how specific do they just need to get? So it's a good question. Brian, can you explain some of the other elements that we covered land use? But there are other elements of the general plan that you're going to be talking about. All elements have to get adopted. Yes, so the general plan will include all of these elements that you see here. We just did the housing element, so you just got to consider the housing element. That gets updated on a more routine basis under the state law because they've identified a housing crisis. And so they've required us to do that every nine years. So what happens is the housing element will project, they'll require that we have more zoning to allow more higher density residential. Well, that gets kind of out of whack with our land use element that was anticipating a housing crisis in 2025. So some of those things are living breathing documents a lot of times. So we work with and analyze the given situation. So the housing element was already adopted element of the general plan. And now we got to kind of back that into the land use element going forward, including circulation, including public facilities and all those kinds of things that will be considered. The circulation element is a very critical one because we have intersections that may or may not function at a suitable level of service. So we would look at an overall city circulation analysis that will show what our existing traffic is and what our future traffic will be once built out of the general plan occurs. And it will implement or it will recommend mitigation measures that will be needed over time as you reach a certain level of traffic. like not everything needs to be built today so you don't spend $5 million in proving something that may happen in 20 years. It's a very refined process of determining the timing as well of those things. So circulation element is always interesting to the community. Conservation and Open Space, as I mentioned, is not so critical much anymore because of the way the curb is defined. The city boundary is defined. The land use intensity is going to occur with inside city limits and the open space conservation will occur in the county. Generally speaking. Public facilities element, like I said, the sewer was a huge part was a huge part of that we already have that built. Water wells going forward will be a critical part of the analysis whether the infrastructure is in place to serve future development or the pipes have the capacity whether there are they haven't been deteriorated and all that all of those types of things will be looked at and what kind of upgrades will be needed, will be analyzed and discussed, and then that will inform what we call just to get a little bit more into the nerdy planning stuff. It will get into what we call development impact fees or deaths. So also as these new land uses are coming online, they'll pay a fee. That fee will allow the city to collectively make those improvements. Because not any one individual project can shoulder the cost of large public type improvements. Palsing element we discussed noise element. We have what are called noise contours. And here the noise is mostly limited to the highway traffic. But there are a lot of building type specifications that mitigate for new developments and noise. Other noise would be in the industrial areas. And we have noise generated by the Amron project. Now so that's one where the noise analysis might look at those noise contours and ensure that going forward, you're not gonna have an incompatibility issue. Safety element, as I mentioned, is gonna look at geologic hazards hazards, you know, where the fault zone is. We now have a new active fault zone that's been identified since the last general plan update. We have more recent geotechnical studies that have been done. More surveys have been done. The fire hazard severity zone has been significantly changed. That will go into this. That will establish certain goals, policies, and implementation with regard to high fire hazard zones. There'll be a lot of change coming with that aspect. Police, you want to make sure that the build out of the city will have enough police. So the city management is informed about what's the budget going to be going forward. And the project development impact fees will need to support so many more officers or office hours. That kind of a thing, how many more fire personnel do you need per capita going forward? So it allows all of that economic planning, budgeting, all that stuff to project out into the future. And then we track the city's development over time, and we're tracking whether we're meeting the needs of the community over time. We'll always be visiting it, but we at least have a projection into the future as to how many officers we're going to need, how many firemen we're going to need, how many fire trucks do we need? How many fire stations do we need? So all of that gets baked in. And then the environmental justice, that's a more recent requirement. I believe the state started requiring that around 2017. We don't have that in our element right now, but that we'll look at there are certain types of communities that are getting overburdened with undesirable type uses. The county went through that and some of that would relate to oil and gas and was there oil drilling, overburdening certain lower income neighborhoods? You know, that kind of thing. So that will be a new component going forward. I think that covers it, but there is a lot more to any one of those. There's a lot more details, and I'd be happy to give it my best shot if you have questions. I got one more. Yeah. Well, it might turn into two. Okay. But on the circulation element. Yeah. Is city standard for or a state standard for stoplights for like partner cities like I think I've seen it in thousand oaks where flashing yellow left turn instead of solid red, they'll flash yellow. So vehicles can turn left on a flashing yellow so they don't have to wait for the light cycle to go through. Is there, and it's in 1,000,000, right in front of City Hall. I do believe there's a couple other cities in the county that has it. That's not a general plan question or even a circulation element question. But you're describing traffic, which is highly, highly regulated. So there are standards. There's some technical manuals, engineering technical manuals. But yeah, but that's not a general plan, you'd comment. It was related more towards the traffic congestion that the city is starting to face now. There's a lot of traffic like would we go to more park in the morning between certain hours where it takes forever in a day to get out there. So is the question, I apologize for making it long-winded, but is there a elaborated to it? I know you can report stuff to Cal trends, but is there something more specific for that plan? Yes. Okay. You're going, that is your role as a planning commission. You're going to look at trying to resolve highway 126 congestion. It's going to be up to you. So there's something called the highway capacity manual. So it does have a specific guiding document when it comes to state highways. So when we go through the general plan update, you want to have experts, right? So we will hire the traffic expert. We won't hire a land use firm who's going to do traffic. They're going to be traffic engineers and they use something called a highway capacity manual for the state highway and they'll use another document of the traffic modeling document for general city circulation and there's something else now called vehicle miles traveled, which is totally up in the air in terms of how you apply thresholds or something like that. but there are specific design engineering guidelines that you go through. So when it comes to an intersection, it's called an LOS level of service. And if you have an F, your traffic engineer will make recommendations. And those recommendations will include things like signal timing or new signals or permissive left turns or at a right turn or at a pocket. Those will come into play and then there could, you know, we're working with them with our traffic engineer. We could say, hey, we know we'd really like a blinking yellow light that allows you turns. Can that accomplish the same thing? And they would tell you, you know, and then that could be baked in. Or maybe you want to have a more elaborate crosswalks with beacons. You know, something that an engineer might not, the numbers might not say it's required, Because here we really would really like to see something like that and they might suggest something. Yeah. Yep. I have a few questions. So one you answered about the sewer plan, whether or not it was built to future proof ourselves from that. Sure. So thank you. When you started talking about the builders or communities when we get large projects, and you know, we have the Meloroo's usually the bonds that come in for those communities that help facilitate streets, sewer lines coming out to the main line and everything. I hadn't been able to find out if whether or not the North Film War build out is going to have Meloroo's. It's not planned to have Meloroo's. You can't find it. It's written in the North Film War specific plan. Was it? So, all specific plans have a chapter on financing public improvements. This, the North Filmor specific plan does as well. The direction from the City Council was avoid Melorous and from here on out. So I think we were relying upon other methods for capital improvements. Okay. Yeah. and then do the North Filmoren, the bridges communities, are they helping meet our arena numbers? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, those are all factored in. We do an annual report and to meet the arena numbers to actually check them off, you have to issue a building permit. So we're, you know, even though like the bridge is what's entitled decades ago, we check off those building permits every year, hey, we're meeting housing based on the current rena numbers. Yeah, an ADU supply as well. Okay, go. One of the big things that in reading this was the keeping of the small town character. How does the general plan and how are we helping to accommodate the future population growth up to that 22,000 or even potentially higher and keeping and without compromising that small town atmosphere. Yeah, I mean we do have height limitations and we had the zoning capacity to meet the 22,000 and since we've we're doing the housing element compliance we have to show more zoning to show we can accommodate even more housing that's not already already being built So it's a paper exercise to keep showing we have more and more capacity, but the actual construction hasn't even caught up to it so at what point Do I mean this is a subjective you know question, but yeah at what point does a small town turn into? You know a small city. Yeah, ultimately, it's, ultimately you run into supply and demand. You get, you know, basic supply and demand. You can't, you're gonna build it as long as there's a demand for it. The market's gonna drive it. You know, if there's a lot of people who can buy homes here, it'll get built. If I'm saying, I don't know what the new general plan goals are going to be. You don't, I don't know what he does. Not until we start the public process. Maybe the new general plan doesn't want to be a small town. We don't know. That's true. We'll find out. And then how do I answer? How do we stay a small town? We're 17,000 now and it's supposed to be a 30 year document. And maybe we're supposed to prepare to be a 50,000 population city like Santa Paula. Santa Paula is still a small town. So I don't know those answers. We'll find out through this process. Yeah. Is there anything specific within land use or the general plan that ensures the affordable housing is distributed equitably? We don't want to price people out similar to what happened in Pyru where all this new developments come in and the median house now jumps up to 600,000 here in Fillmore. It's jumped significantly towards priced people out of either families moving in or people wanting to upgrade from a starter home to their now family home. How how is that maybe enshrined in the current document and can it be enshrined in future documents? It is, the state is attempting to tackle that issue and then we locally are also tackling that issue and tackling it regionally, locally, we get the reen and numbers and those are based on various levels of income needs and the income levels include moderate, which I believe is up to 120% average median income. So the income categories are based on the designated median income, which changes on an annual basis. And there's a whole calculation that goes into that. So it's pin, it's pin of the median income. You have moderate income, low income, very low income, and extremely low income. And those are categories all tied to the RENA numbers. we're given numbers from Rina, based on a regional analysis being done by SCAG, basically Southern California Association of Governments. There's a formula that gets baked in, we get the numbers. So theoretically on paper, those Rina numbers are to meet those income categories. And that's required and that's in the housing element which will inform the land use element too. We just went through the RISO and effort which is really a land use, it's a land use implementation of the housing element to provide that range of income housing for various levels of income. The probably the biggest constraint on providing all that housing is just the land availability. You know, we have, as I mentioned, the city is surrounded by environmental constraints. And so we still look at multitudes of housing types like like the bridges is a different product, then we'll be Creekside. Bridges is kind of a move up. So a lot of the buyers of those homes have lived and filmed more for quite a long time and they have equity in their moving up. And then someone else has moved into the house behind them. Creek side is going to build a different market segment. It's going to be kind of the lower-ish, middle range of the market. Hopefully we get a lot of new first-time home buyers. That's what we're hoping we get in there. The first-time home buyers from Fillmore who graduated college and they want to come back. You know, that kind of thing. So hopefully that hits that housing market. So we kind of have those two elements in terms of a market rate. And then we, you know, we have, you know, many mentions built a low income. We have people self-help project called Fillmore Terrace that's going to be low and very low income. And I think some extreme, extreme low income. And we're tracking those numbers as well. But you kind of need a whole plethora of, rate, and then the market rate housing prices are gonna depend on your supply and demand. Those will dictate the pricing, but which is mostly affected by the fact that we just don't have enough houses. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna ask, so it's just based on whatever developer wants to come and build something, right? It's not like you've restricted the area. It has to have x% of x income units in your development. No, the city council's adopted through the housing inclusionary ordinance that 15% of the homes have to be affordable, right? So it's evenly distributed around the city. We don't want a poor section and then a rich section that Brian just described that we're trying to avoid. And they can't get away with paying out loofies. No, there is an alloofie program in it. We haven't determined the amount. And we haven't accepted any of those fees. We've required each project to provide 15% of it and to be affordable. Oh, okay. Creekside's doing 20 low income units. Okay. And the KB Home Project had affordable units. The only project that was not permitted affordable units was the bridge's subdivision. City was sued on that. And from that city settled, then we had to construct and it's been done and completed affordable units elsewhere in the city. But to get the housing built, there has to be an incentive for someone to invest in building housing here. so they have to get a return on the investment. So they won't come if they don't think they're going to sell the house that they need. They'll go invest in stocks. Yeah, you mean you have a piece of land, probably $200 per square foot or something. you're looking at a $400,000 piece of land. Now you're gonna pay $400,000 just to build some kind of structure on it. So now you're up to $800,000. I mean, it starts getting, you start getting pricing people out. Cost of construction has been going up significantly. And the way we do this, the collective land use study for future and future build out of all the community needs is you can develop what we mentioned the diffs to develop an impact fees so that each developer is paying a fair share and not having to foot the whole thing theoretically. I was going to ask since this curb is like you were saying almost like maxing it out. And this open space area, I mean it's kind of on the periphery, which I mean I would say should be more developed because it's an you know an amenity to people who live here like you know having hiking trails or you know cool regional outdoor excursion type of places. But when, if every year, our goal is to expand the number of housing units, does that mean that we have to just keep rezoning the lower areas to be higher density over and over and over again? Or is it stop at a certain point? That's gonna be a question that we're gonna face, ultimately, and we'll probably have to get more serious about that discussion with the state at the next round. Do we just keep up zoning and up zoning and up zoning, even though we're not building, the developers aren't coming anyway. And our population didn't go up. It didn't go up. Yeah. And so that's the thing is just a paper exercise. But even though we're zoning things, we're upzoning to allow a certain high density, it doesn't mean a developer couldn't come in a lower density, typically, if the market's there for it. So. And then the annex, like because that's how you would extend beyond that curb area, right? Yes. Is that, I mean, that occurred right for the bridges? Yes. So is that a really difficult process or can? No, it's not difficult, but you stay within the rules. And the rule is you have to stay within the curb, it's bound to but you can't go outside the curb Yeah, going outside the curb isn't a lot more challenging. We also you're gonna do it You need to vote of the Ventura County voters We have that's through Lafko, but that's not through Lafko No, no, there you have to be a referendum. No, and you'd have to vote during the election time. Okay. It's very difficult. So you'll learn this through the general plan right now. So you ask how does the city stay small? The city created its own curb boundary and then the county voters created boundaries. And then we created green belts between each city to prevent cities from merging together to prevent us from looking like Los Angeles. And then we zoned out those lands out there. So there's layer upon layer upon layer upon layer to prevent us from looking like Los Angeles. Ventura County was widely known as the most onerous to do the annexations and to grow out into the agricultural land. Through the 80s and 90s, there was a massive effort to lock this area down specifically. And the author of you've heard of SOAR, save up and space in agriculture resources. That's what Kevin's referring to. That's a voter referendum. So to get out of store, the county would have to vote, if it's in the county area, the head would have to vote to allow that to happen. Okay. Yeah. And I had another question about the interplay between those like Greenbell or agricultural zones and then the more urban like residential, like the environmental impact report that we were talking talking about that only is analyzing areas that are going to change in the land use document. So is there ever an analysis of like oh this pesticide is being sprayed from an airplane onto these you know farms and it's right there next to someone's house and and the water and soil and whatever's contaminated. So, and are there restrictions? I mean, I know California has some restrictions, but. Yeah, well, when you're doing Sequa, just because you have an existing condition doesn't also mean you put blinders on and say, oh, that's already there. New information can come to light. New science comes to light that informs the environmental impact analysis. And the county has various measures between sensitive uses like housing and agriculture and they have a zone, you know, it's like a hundred dollars established, like a hundred foot buffer, where the farmer can only do certain amount of things within a distance of the residents. So we would rely on something like that. It's pretty close though. Yeah, I just signed it this year. It's like they have the right to farm. They can spray from the area. Right to farm, or that's. Yeah, you have the right to farm ordinance, which allows the farmers to do a lot, but then there are also ways to negotiate a certain buffer zone to make sure that the residents aren't unduly burdened either. allows the farmers to do a lot, but then there are also ways to negotiate a certain buffer zone to make sure that the residents aren't unduly burdened either. So, but then- Well, steady all this. Yeah, and the general plan, SQL document, that will go to the county. The county will comment and, you know, and we'll, because we'll put in things that are going to benefit us, the county will be some back and forth with the county on it. Okay. Yeah. Any other questions? What about the farming that's allowed right now on in some of the residential zone types? Is that at all regulated in terms of like you can't have runoff going on to someone else's property or can't spray things in the air or you know things like that? Generally there's there's historical leniency toward farming but you can't have your water runoff under adjacent properties under state law and I don't know that we have anything adopted locally in terms of pesticide applications, but I believe it's gonna be governed under more state and federal health code type stuff that's come into play. But like, you know, like Calabasas, you can't like smoke in public areas or whatever, it's the pollution of the air. I mean, I don't, I wonder, is that part of their land use? Would that be? I don't think that is. I think that was like a special ordinance. Okay. Yeah. The only other question I have is do we know, do we know I thought I was loud. Do we know when we would pick two commissioners along with the council, City Council for this? No, we don't know when we're gonna pick it. We're gonna first send out a request for our proposal for consultants. We'll do the environmental document and then the general plan. And it'll be about a five year effort. So once we select a consultant, they'll study the city. First, we'll go back and forth with city staff quite a bit while they're doing their analysis and study. And then we will begin a general plan advisory committee. So we don't know when that is, I'll come to you and or Bryant will come to you and ask that you dominate two people. But it's going to include just more than just you commissioners and general and the city council. We're going to heavily rely on the public. Thank you. Any other questions? Yeah. So the consultant they bring in sort of scientifically based information, right? Yeah, the submitted proposal will review it, analyze it, and then they'll have, we'll make sure that their team includes the right experts. So there's different ways of doing it. You know, you typically want to have one general plan consultant who's sort of quarterbacking and they'll have, we want to make sure that whoever we're using for traffic, we have a say in making sure it's a very good traffic engineer or it's a very good, you know,ologist or whomever, we'll review all of their statements of qualifications and make sure that the team, because there's gonna be multiple bidders trying to win our general plan update, they will compete heavily for this. And they- I think she's asking, you're getting there, but I think she's asking, will they have experts that they can ask questions to them? Yes. The team that will be involved, you'll be able to ask them questions. So if there's some kind of forum like this where we're going over it, we'll have the traffic engineer here with us. Whatever the expertise may be, that person will be in the room. Okay. Yeah. So typically we have air quality noise traffic. That's the typical. And then on that we'll have experts that you'll be able to ask them. Like environmental justice for example. We'll have experts on that and you whatever questions that you may have. Any other questions? All right, that moves us on to item 1010A, Planning Commission brief reports, anyone? Any commissioners? I'm going to move the report out. All right, moving on to 10 B. Okay. Yeah, I don't have anything to add. I'll take any questions you may have on any project. I'll sonic. Sonic is doing okay. So as you know and what I described to you all the time, you know, it's not a cause of the city as to why it's being delayed but the contractor. Brian did you want to add anything else on sonic? You know what phase they're? Well, they've finished their water connection and have their hydrant in which was a huge step and they've put in their sidewalk on orange grove that was another huge step so the public improvements are getting done they're getting very close to pouring their foundation which is another huge step and then you'll you see the steel framing that's out there now that has just recently passed inspection So we hope they pick up pace we'll see They've got some powerful stuff to do in the alley that we're we're hoping and we're talking with Edison on a routine basis to hope that that doesn't you know Extend any kind of grand opening, you know, but we're monitoring them. And they're hopefully starting to pick up the pace we'll see. Do we know maybe a kind of in the future date of them fixing the 126 with those steel plates? I mean, driving over it is terrifying. Yeah, it's about time for that right now. They're Gonna be doing their hydrant testing and I believe as soon as their hydrant testing is completed They should be back to finishing refilling the Highway and that's all under the cow transmit for that, but yeah, that's a good question Yeah, yeah, the one on going Yeah, what mean, that one is, I mean, the trucks go in that first lane. Bing, bing, yeah. It's loud and they bounce. And a lot of that is because they've been out there for so long. They're breaking free and they're shifting. Right. I think Alex has a question. Regarding the growth of the city. Yeah. There's a city plan put new schools because yeah if you're reaching 22,000 to 25,000 people by the next year or something like that, how does the city tackle that? No, we're not planning any new schools. So we can handle the population we have now. We can handle the population up to 22,000. But your role as a planning commissioner is to look at schools and you're gonna be working directly with the school district. So when we've done this in the past, we've had to identify two new elementary schools and just in the general plan. You're at a higher level of determining whether a new school needs to be added. Look, we're going to be 30 years that we're planning, and maybe 50,000 people, you're obviously gonna need a new school somehow,, some location. Remember this, school district boundaries are well beyond the city limits. May it goes out to the five and it goes all the way up to Gorman. But anyway, that was a little detail answer, but you'll look at this. You will be looking at school district. Based on the number of housing units and things, they'll be a factor for how many students they'll be generated. And then the school district will tell us whether they have the capacity to serve that increased population or not and then go from there. Just like they did on the bridges. Just like the bridges. That's right. Oh, Rio, yeah. Yeah. Kind of follow the question of that. How often does the city and the school district, I guess, get an alignment on what they're pursuing? I know they're governed by DSA and- The city council and the school board have a subcommittee that meets, I think, maybe monthly monthly and they discuss these types of issues. And then they go to their respective board or councils and they talk. So we're in frequent discussions with them. Yeah. Any other questions? All right. Well, that takes us to the last item 11, adjournment. This planning commission adjourns to the next regular schedule meeting on June 18, 2025 at 630 in the City Council chambers.