Second meeting of the Board of Architecture Review. Do any members of the Board wish to make any modifications to the minutes from the April 2nd meeting? Do any members of the public wish to suggest any modifications to the minutes of the meeting from April 2nd? Seeing none, can I have a motion on that? I motion to approve the minutes. Second. I'm going to go to the committee. I'm going to go to the committee. I'm going to go to the committee. I'm going to go to the committee. I'm going to go to the committee. I'm going to go to the committee. I'm going to go to the committee. I'm going to go to the committee. I'm going to go to the committee. I'm going to go to the committee. We have one item on our consent calendar this evening. A BAR item with three. Consent calendar item number three. Sorry. BAR item number three, consent count of item number three, sorry. BAR 2025-007-0, old and historic district request for waiver of rooftop HVAC screening requirement and alterations at 611 King Street. The applicant is a keynote old town represented by Benjamin Keeney architect. Do any of the members of the board wish to remove this item from the consent calendar? Do any members of the public wish to remove this item from the consent calendar? Seeing none, can we have a motion on the consent calendar. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right, the consent calendar is adopted and approved. Items 4 and 5 unfinished business. Thank you again. Yes, we have two docked items under Entrance Business and 4.5. BAR 2025-0035. Oldenstark District. Excuse me, request for alterations and new construction at 1201 East Eppington Drive. The applicant is PF3 Eppington LLC and 1201 Parkway LLC by Ken Wire and Megan Repolt, attorneys. And BAR 2025, dash 0036, Oldenstark District, request for partial demolition and encapsulation at 1201 East Eppington Drive, applicant is PF3, Eppington, LLC, and 1201 Parkway Center, LLC by Ken Wire and Megan Repolt, attorneys. Are you the applicant or the applicant's representative? Yes. Would you please state your name and an address for record? Yes. My name is Jack Cain. Howdressed for record is 917th Street Northwest, suite 1050, Washington, T.C. Thank you. Would you like to give us a presentation or answer the board's questions? Yeah. I will give a short presentation. Okay, go ahead, thank you. All right, thank you. Thank you guys for, and ladies, for seeing us again so quickly, just to remind everybody, we were here back on March 5th, and we requested a deferral based on some of the comments and feedback we received from the board at that time. It's funny when you're staring at a project for so long. It's nice to have some fresh eyes kind of help you take a look at it and see where you may have been missing some things. And we appreciate everyone's comments to kind of help us realize some areas of improvement. So just as a general status of the project before I get into the full presentation, we are going through final site plan right now With with city We are on our third submission at this point and you know, we are anxious to move this forward in a time when There are a lot of projects not moving forward, you know insert economic condition here, right? So we're excited to be back to kind of present our revisions to the design based on everybody's feedback. So, the last time we were here, there were really two overarching comments that we received. The first being that the entry gate design did not make enough of a statement. You know, it didn't announce itself as the entry. It didn't provide a sense of direction. You know, there were some comments that people might get lost looking for how to get into the building. So we went back and took a look at that design. The other comment that we received was that the facade of the new addition was a little too strong in color and verticality. It was emphasizing the mass of the building. And we wanted to apply a more subtle treatment to that to kind of quiet it down and make it more contextual appropriate. Go to the next slide. So as you pull up to the building, this is related to the entry gate. As you pull up to the building, we wanted to make sure there was really no question of where you get in. So we have two or three PUDO pickup drop off temporary parking, parallel parking in a curb cut, right adjacent to the entry gate. So, the viewpoint you're seeing on the right is, you know, as you're kind of stepping out of your vehicle there. So, what we've done with the gate design is, we've coordinated the fence material with the unit entry paddios for a cohesive yet pronounced sort of street presence to kind of make it a little less timid, which is one of the comments we received last time. We've also added another pile-asseter column intermittent from the ends of each side to kind of again give it more presence along the street. We have added height to the middle columns, the entry columns, those are 10 feet now. And we've added a decorative horizontal element to create sort of a portal entry as you come into the gate. And then we've also added lights and a brighter building number to the outside of the gate. So, you know, we think that this design, you know, really cohesively responds to the two types of architecture on both sides of it and really creates a, you know, this is a gate, this is where you come into the building and this is where you come off the street. So, the next slide, the next couple slides are sort of just a sequence of entry as you come up to that gate with some close ups. Again, there's a curb cut right in front of the gate. So as people are being dropped off, it's pre-redally apparent and even more so now with the revised design of where you enter. Go to the next slide. And this slide really just kind of emphasizes the changes we made. Again, the fence material was, is the fencing that we're using along the walk-ups, along East Abbingdon Drive. So it kind of ties that with the rest of it together. We made the central columns larger. We included a decorative horizontal element that matches that gate material. So again, create that portal-like entry. And we've added lights and more pronounced building number. So this is the view of the gate opening closed. One of the things we talked about last time was a semi-private courtyard. Open during the day for delivery drivers and residents to come and go and then the ability to close it and lock it at night for security. You know, I think another point that I want to make too is that the fence material that we picked here, we believe that it's a good material to sort of create a sense of separation for the residents from the parkway while still being light enough to let the courtyard breathe out onto the sidewalk and making it really kind of pedestrian friendly and inviting. So I think that our team and city staff have really kind of helped us kind of hone in this design. This is as you're walking into the courtyard. And then we also took some precedent imagery of what these entry focal points would look like or do look like around the area. There are some representative examples incorporating some metal elements into it. It is a lot of brick. So I think that what we've done here sort of responds to the architecture that we're proposing as well as sort of keeps in line with what you're typically seeing for entry points to buildings in the area. Okay, so the, you know, I think where we spent most of our time last time was on the facade of the addition to the building. You know, again, it was coming off too strong, too vertical. So we've been working on creative ways to reduce that verticality and make it seem less massive, which is really what we wanted to achieve. We did that in two different ways. All the pileasters on the addition have now been slimmed up and equaled and width. So on the next slide, I'll go into how we did that specifically. And then we also revised the brick color. I think the brick color we had last time was a little too steady-state tone, right? It's now got some variations and interest. So I wanted to make sure that everyone had a chance to see the new brick color. We brought a larger sample. I'm happy to come and bring it up and pass it around if anyone wants to feel it or touch it or. Yeah, sure. That. So, if you go to the next side. So, this is what the, you know, addition from East Abington looks like. If you go one more slide, Diane. So, what we've done is we've taken the Corbald manganese iron spot brick that we have within the window base and we brought that outside of the window to the left of the window base to increase that void space which lets the brighter colored brick be less intrusive. We've also taken that same brick color to the page left pileaster that kind of stands outside of the balcony to kind of reduce its presence there. And we took a foot off of the, for this most right pileaster, to kind of make them more uniform. In the pictures too, we have the brick colors that we've selected so far, just to kind of keep, you know, everybody reminded of what these brick colors are. This is a page that kind of shows more about how we're detailing that brick. Again, the Corbal brick pattern, you know, it's the the bricks kind of protrude a half inch out and in kind of creating some interest and some materiality to it. This brick already has some materiality to it. It's got some variations in color, a little more rustic in appearance than the last brick that we presented. And you know, between the Corbal brick added to these added to the left side of the window bays, the sill details, the stack bond, I think there's a lot of interest and it kind of takes everything off the same plane to sort of get some shadow effect and I think it will look really nice. This is just another example of the elevation from the south side on Abington. It's hard because the rendering software is tough to get the exposure right of the townhouses. You can see the townhouses are in the renderings are a lot brighter than what they are on the actual photo. But we think just taking a look at it, right? It looks more slender, more elegant, a little bit more quiet, right? It looks more slender, more elegant, you know, a little bit more quiet, right? This is another close-up of how it looks. And then one more. Just kind of showing how we treated again, running that corbal brick pattern up the left side of the windows to reduce the mass of that and kind of open up the window. I do want to say too, I skipped over something on the western facade. We, to break up, I think you could back to page 11. Yeah, we did add window in that left most bay to kind of break up that pile-ass here because that one was probably the largest out of all of them. So we think that lets more light in from behind it gives residents a better experience but also contributes to the time with elegance that we're kind of going for here. So we went out I think it was mid-March at 2.30 in the afternoon to take photos of probably 10 or 12 different brick samples and we thought this Alpine gray that we picked looked the best and complemented the existing brick as well as you know putting up against the town homes next door. That's the darker, probably the darkest town home right on the side. So, again, this was at 230, so it got the appropriate sun exposure to really show it and it's brightest condition. And then the darker manganese iron spot brick that we have does kind of match with some of the brick that's in those existing town homes as well. So kind of trying to carry some of that over. Just more photos of the brick that we selected. Again, the left brick is the new one we've selected. Metal brick is match existing building. And then the right brick is what the Corbal Patterns will be on the addition. More photos of the brick. There's a photo of an in-place application to kind of be representative of what this could and will look like. And then more detail on the darker color brick within those window bays. I know, Mr. Adams, too, you had mentioned in the last time, how are people getting into this site if it's raining or if they have mobility issues. And we did want to point out that we do have a secondary entrance on the back off of the private street that is covered and there are handicap spots flanking that entrance. So you're just a couple steps from being able to take cover under the rain to get into the building. And then these are just the material boards that you see in front of you. And with that, I'll open it up to questions. Thank you. Do any members of the board have questions for the applicant before we open it up for public comment? I have a one on page 16 the building on the far left Of your project. Yes, was that always for story building? Yes, this is the original height of the building. There was a, the height that we are coding to now, there was a false-mancer group that was removed in 2014. So, you know, the building looked like it got shorter, but yes, this is the original. That's right, that's okay. Thank you. Any other questions from the board? All right. I'd like to open it up to the public. Do any members of the public wish to? Oh, I'm sorry. James, did you have a question? You got to speak up and stop eating. I did. I did speak up. You just didn't hear me. Can we go to the image of the gate, please? So would there be any electronic entry hardware on that gate disclosed? I'm just saying if you're a treat you bring and dropped off at night. Yeah, that's a good question. I think that we will have access control on that gate just for again security reasons. That would probably be a black FAB keypad, not an actual keypad. We wouldn't have a full intercom system with a bright screen or anything like that. I was concerned about the intercom system with the bright screen. Yep. Thank you. All right. Now are there any members of the public who wish to make a comment on that? Have you filled out a comment card? I did a march. We have. That's all right. You can come up to this lectern right here. And just make sure. I do another one for you. Okay. Thank you. So you have three minutes or five minutes. I don't need that. Okay. Please state your name and address and then any comments you have. Thank you. I'm Melissa Kennan. I live at 525 Montgomery Street in Old Town, North and I left you some information on what my concerns are. The issue here is really context. And as you heard at the last meeting, the architects said this building has to have a statement, has to make a statement, the addition has to be a statement. Unfortunately, we don't have any renderings of this project from the parkway. And along the parkway right now, the existing building is the only one you can see behind the above the trees on the parkway. Does this, the issue of our context is does it meet with a context of the old town north urban design guidelines? Because it isn't context sensitive and it creates a monolithic facade with no building breaks or setbacks. Is it in context of the old and historic district? Memor, that's supposed to memorize the parkway. The additions visibly distinct, and that's what the architect told us they wanted to do, visibly distinct from the original building, which actually uses a more harmonious color palette in this neighborhood. And it'd be obvious to see how this building would relate to the public if we had a rendering from the parkway, but we don't have one, so you can just imagine. And the architects have purposely said that this has to stand out and they've exaggerated its scale and its visibility. And surprisingly, if you want to put the rendering above the addition, it looks just like the gables. And all-town north, which is, imitates almost every new building that comes out of review from the City of Alexandria these days, where the vertical peers, this is an example of a building design that is replicating an industrial building in Old Town North. This isn't the same site. This is a leafy green site, open lawns, and on the open parkway, and is part of the entrance to this city. So by changing the material to light gray, obviously, it's going to make it stand out. The vertical pierce make it appear higher. And the front facade of this addition is a screen, which makes it wider than the existing building because it includes balconies. So it's even wider than it actually is. So everything that they've done is to try to distract the driver as an implication of the design. It's overwhelmed the two, three, four story townhouses that exist in this neighborhood. And it's just not in context of the neighborhood. And I think it's really important that we stand up for this because this is the entrance to the city and this is the pathway. You're at time, but I will note that we- That was my last minute. We did receive your letter and I'm confused, so thank you for your comments sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I the public portion of the hearing for this docket item and we'll open it up to comments from the board. Mr. Lyons, would you like to start? Thanks. Yeah, I appreciate the speaker and I appreciate the note that you sent before. You, I thought the project was I I could I supported it the last time you were here Though you know, I did agree with many of the changes that my board members suggested fellow board members suggested I think you've done a good job of incorporating those into this new presentation You know, I think we come across this with any time you know like a 301 North Fairfax. I mean, it was a big change. I mean, you know, it's hard to fit that building in. It's change is scary. I think we come across this with any time, you know, like a 301 North Fairfax. I mean, it was a big change. I mean, you know, it's hard to fit that building in. It's changes scary and progress is sometimes scary, but you try to, you know, do your best to listen to your neighbors and to listen to the board and to listen to others. And I think you've done that. It's probably never going to exactly fit with what's there next door, but I think you've done a good job of taking the input and making the changes so I could support the project with staff recommendations. Thank you. Mr. Spencer. Thank you. I don't think I was here for the last time that this was actually reviewed. I'm not mistaken. So I'm looking at this for fresh eyes. I guess my, I mean the height, it's cooled into the height of the building, existing building that was there. I assume it's the red building, right? And the starkness of the grayish brick, it does make a standout and it does draw attention. I'm not saying that's good or bad, it just kind of is what it is. The verticality of it, I still think this is a very vertical building, but you're surrounded by a bunch of other buildings that are punched openings and ribbon windows, so they are very horizontal. And you're introducing a new architectural language into the area, into this area. And I guess where is that being pulled from? I mean, what is the relationship for that? Is there a relationship for that? Or is it just a design idea that you want to express the productivity of the building? You have one on that. I know when we were designing, my name is Patricia Booker. I'm with KTGY. I know when we were designing this building, we were reacting to two things. One was the massing and making sure that it aligned with the existing architecture. And I believe one of the comments previously was that we wanted to break up the massing and so that was one of the main reasons for using two different brick colors when we came into it. The architecture kind of evolved to what it was and has been fine tuned to what you see today. I know verticality was a comment that we received at the last one. We believe that narrowing down these columns and making it so that the vertical peers are just about the same width as the horizontal has made it less vertical. It's not something that was right next to it is just the town homes. And so we're not trying to react to the town homes themselves because it's a different typology. But we believe that this is of the correct scale for what it is, which is multifamily housing. Okay. I don't know if there really is just my question, but I am still on the fence when I'm supporting the supportive of this application personally, but it's just kind of my initial thoughts. Okay, we'll come back to you later if you have any more. Thank you. Ms. Del Nino. Ms. Del Nino. I appreciate you were slendering the pie lasters on this West elevation. I think that's helpful. The last time you were here, my concern was really from the parkway, and not so much the gate and the pedestrian entrance. I find that the design is still quite vertical and stark. I mean, it's still white and on the north end, now we have an unsupported column that's about five stories tall. So I feel that that is certainly a vertical element. It would be important to have a much quieter facade that is a little more complimentary with the existing building. Again, the colors very marginally changed since last time. I don't know there may be other design options, such as maybe lowering that white cornice at the top of floor or try to look at a different color, make some more horizontal elements. I think the design has a little further to go. Further into that, could you bring up your slide that showed the application of your detailed brick work? There's a building in New Jersey that's similarly designed. Yeah, I think that's 18. Okay, it's the building on the left here. The only reason I raised this is because it may be that it's not that the gray is too light. It may be that there's too much contrast here. And that's creating such a bold statement. The building on the left has a lot of similar design details. but it has sort of like a sea green brick or glazed terracotta. I can't tell what it is, but it's a lot more soothing to the eye. So I just thought I would bring this up for our board members to take a look at it. Because I'm not sure that the gray is too gray. It might be that the black, which is a very modern look, it just creates too much contrast with the other color, because, well, I'll weigh in more when I make my comments. But was that all you had in this only year? Would you like to come back? Yep, uh-huh. That's what I think the design needs a little refinement. Bismillahirrahim. Thank you. Couple comments I have for you. On O, not page nine. Right, nine. I guess that's as good as any. Actually, any page of the facade will show. I think, for me, I was anticipating or hoping that the end column and columns of the vertical on the new addition would have more of a wrapping feeling or more dimension to them. Then it still feels for me like it's flat and needs to be either push back or have some movement in it. Understand what you're trying to do. It looks to me like you have balconies on the corners. That's not working for me yet. It's still making too strong a statement on that, on the facade of the building. Secondly, about the brick, you're headed in the right direction. I like that better. I do think that a brick of that color is going to begin to recede into the background, even more than a red brick does, although we live in a red brick town and we're red brick kind of recedes for us because it's all around us. But I do think there are some elements up it that will help it to recede into the skyline. So I'm not opposed to lighter. You may bring us yet another even stronger alternative, not in the direction of a wider, but more gray, more muted, more maybe even greenish, as you said, but I'm not so sure about the greenish, but more brick color. Oh, more brick color up here. Okay, so yes, that may help a lot. Thirdly, I just wanted to mention that across the street from your building and down into town a little bit on the right-hand side is going to be a project called the Whitley. And the Whitley is going to begin also is introducing a great brick into that end of town on Washington Street, which we have not seen much of. So in response to the thoughts of some of my colleagues, I'm thinking that while this is a new element in the north end of town, and we're not on wait for this for the parkway, I could see it working if we can get the brick color right, but maybe it's red. So I'm not so set on that yet. I think it's a little too big. Still it's coming. It's not I'm not talking heights go mass. I'm talking the visual effect of what is going on with the facade. Thank you Thank you, miss Miller. Mr Adams. Thank you I've driven up and down the parkway for years, and I've been, you know, a lot of consideration to this site every time I go by it. And it seems so incongruous, this building. Everywhere else things are divided into smaller elements. The townhouses next door, the apartment houses from the 40s, the brick house, the garden community, across everywhere around there. Everything's broken down into smaller elements. And here we have, it's almost like a preview of Monumental Washington with the color, the grand verticals. And I think that's the wrong message for Old Town. We're in contrast to that. So it's just calling too much attention to itself, either in the monumental size of it, the colors, the massing, I think you could probably work with the square footage, but if you could somehow break it down into smaller elements, which a lot of other buildings in town have been able to do that. So it's not a fist in your eye coming or going into old town. It should be harmonious, like a garden. I was at a Dumbartinox today, and you can see how a gardener plants things, so there's continuity and repetition and variety. And here we have this Gigundo monumental building. It's not a courthouse, it's not a public building. It seems it should be more recessive and not overwhelm these. Just 10 years ago, the townhouses to the south were built and all the emphasis was put on them to make them more historic and more in tune with the community as a postcard to tell you what you're coming into. And I think this building is just a giant flag in our faces. And I don't know, I don't think that's right. I like the comments from the residents. Again, along those lines that it's massive, maybe using brick colors instead of stone colors would help bring it down, maybe different planes of offering more shadows instead of these striking vertical shadows. Maybe the window patterns could be punched or give them a little more variety, like a patchwork quill, I see that in some places, it breaks down a large building into smaller elements. The point is really, nobody sees this building up close. It's 80 feet away or 50 to 80 feet away from the, this huge amount of traffic going by it. So the changes to the posts on the front of the gate, or you know these are minimal or the texture, the bricks, whether they're in or out, that's not so important because you don't see it up close. Only the residents, people walking by it. So I think you have to look at it from a distance. And some of the earlier comments about the context, that was once meant to be a circle there instead of a straight through way. The trees somehow still reflect that a little bit, but on the west side, there are smaller townhouses, on the east side, there are smaller townhouses. This building you're starting with is the largest single building and that is a precinct of town. So I think, but at least it's in a recessive color for old town brick color. So I think this is just too much, too much. I made glance. The entrance, I think, you know, I would have changed the indicator fine, but just for the people who live there, I still would think, even if you have four cars can pull into a zone. And for the number of people living here, it doesn't seem to have an up, boom, boom, it's one thing to walk back in there and find that the address or the name of the condo, but I think it's something more striking would benefit the benefit to the people looking at these units to live there. My biggest thing is this facade facing the parkway and it does look south to over those houses. We gave them such grief to make them smaller and now you have something that makes that look ridiculous that we were trying to write things down within the past decade into smaller elements. They're more historic and so forth. But I would like to really see this area with the light for both the sods of it re-studied into more of a patchwork look. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Adams. Ms. Zondin. Thank you for the changes that you have made. It definitely has improved at the opening entrance. And the facade, it definitely has become more slender and nicer than before. But still, when I look at it, it still has the verticality element to it. We have asked, I remember last time, where Conor pled presence on the Washington. The brick that is chosen again is very light. It has the contrast with the bridge and I think as Messier Scott mentioned, it might be the problem that it's the contrast between the two white and the gray bricks. And it's just when I look at this building, It looks like a building from North Old Town, from, I mean, Tyson's Corner or even DC, but it's not Old Town, it's not Washington Street. The, if you go to page 15, please, if you look at the building, it kind of feels that there is this big white thin wall attached to the face of the building in the front. I think I mentioned last time too, that the two kind of vertical elements that it's framing the balconies, they either need to be set back or wrap around. We can maybe connect it to the white on the side, to the front to kind of show it that it's wrapping around. Even just play video to somewhat, as the other members said, to kind of reduce the verticality. The color of the brick, it could be even something that is the same, like similar in the background of it to the existing brick, but it's like a white washed brick. You know, something that is, it kind of talks to the, it speaks to the other side of the building, but a little bit different. I do appreciate the picture that you have, that you kind of trying to match the darker brick with the elements of the other townhouses. The darker brick with that other, I think it was on page 16. Yes. It does feel that in the picture, and when I'm looking at it, it has a little bit of a cooler tone than that one. But overall, it's close. And I do very much appreciate the texture that you have brought to the facade. It makes it really nice. So as far as like that element is really nice, I just think it's the color and it's the it has too much, it's too big and it doesn't fit into the context. It doesn't say it's all town. And I think that's kind of what everyone is referring to. I think. Mm. It's me. Yeah, and just please keep in mind that some of the elements, I know it's just, everyone is using dark brick nowadays and it's just something that it doesn't look dated later on. Just keep that in mind. I think that's all. So it definitely has some nice elements, but I think it still needs to be worked on to fit in the context. Thank you, Ms. Odin. Could you go back to slide nine, please? All right, so I appreciate all my colleagues' comments and the comments from the public. Would you like to say something else before me? OK. Before you wrap it up, you can talk after me, too. Well, it's fine. You can go. I can talk after you, Glad. Thank you. So, I'm listening to my colleagues, but I have no problem with the scale of your building. It matches the scale of the building next to it. I get that. I think my issue is that the brick that you chose is not complementary to the surrounding brick. I mean, you can contrast, but it does, it contrasts so starkly that I think that's the big problem. And I think if you got a brick, I'm not saying it has to even be red brick, but it just needs to be complementary to the fact that there's a lot of red brick around. On some positives, I do appreciate the exquisite brick detailing that you have. I mean, it's what you did with the spot, the iron spot brick. That's beautiful, and that's a beautiful brick by itself. So I'm a fan of that brick. And the darker elements that you have, I see there's some darker elements in the existing building, so I see where you're pulling things from. The vertical elements, there's some vertical elements on the ground floor of the existing building, so I see where there's some relationships going on. But it's for me, the bigger things, it could be the contrast between the gray, the light gray brick and the dark, Ernst Park brick, but I think it's really the lack of cohesion between, or even the compliment, there's no complimentary language going on between the brick that you chose, which is the light gray brick. And all the existing, I mean, that's a lot of red brick over there, and I understand why as an architect you might want to go a little different, but I think you might have gone too far on the different on that particular element. That's all I wanted that in is that I just think if you change the brick color to something that's a little more complementary, this will probably recede back. And I don't, verticality, I don't think would bother me as much if the brick was complimentary. Thank you. Yeah, of course. So I want to echo what Mr. Spencer said. That's kind of why I brought up this view. First of all, I do think you've been responsive to our comments from last meeting. And want to thank you. You address the exact issues that we raised last time and now you're hearing from the board. They're even having addressed those. There's still some concern. So I want to echo the comments about the detail of the brickwork. It's very nice. I really appreciate the addition of balconies on the Northwest corner. I think that gives it a residential feel given that this is a conversion from an office building. I think this is a real challenge because you have an existing brick building. You're adding a new wing and you can't make it exactly the same as the old wing, and I don't think we would want you to, because then it would just make the building look even more massive and monolithic. So differentiation, I think, is very important, and I think differentiating by architectural style and color might be too much differentiation, because you want the buildings, buildings you want that, I mean, it sort of reads like two buildings really that are connected, but they're so different from each other. They, and the light brick one is also very different from the buildings immediately to the south. And I live right across the street from here, I see this building many times a day. I think it's a terrific project and I think it's really beautifully designed. It sounds like and I agree with the comments that what you may need to do is just tone it down a little bit and consider reducing the verticality of this addition, maybe doing a wrap around instead of having these bold, flat planes of white brick disconnected from each other. Maybe reducing unnecessary architectural elements like unsupported peers. It is a challenge. And so I am sensitive to the fact that this is your third time here. And we do appreciate that you've been responsive to us at the concept review at in the March meeting and then today. And I think this is a really great improvement over the last time. I think, however, it might benefit from another look at the relationship between this new building and the site context. You can ask for a vote today. And if you're approved, you're approved. And if you're approved, And if you're approved, you're approved. And if you are not approved, you can appeal to the city council. Who can essentially have a denovo review. They can just consider it on its own merits. Or you can ask for a deferral as you did last time. And we can grant you a deferral. come back as soon as you can, as soon as we can dock at you. Probably not next meeting but the meeting after so essentially a month from now. So those are your options but before I ask you what you want to do I do want to open up to any of my colleagues on the board who might have anything else to add before we ask the applicant what they'd like to do. I just like to add that I agree with your comments that the option of a deferral is an opportunity for you all to tweak what needs tweaking and I've been a favor of it. That's it. That's it. Despite a lot of people talking about the color of the brick and so forth and the verticality of these celebration, principle, you have around the corner, I still would like to see some study of how to reduce the massiveness of this, either by lowering the cornice so that there's a setback or some way to break it down into more manageable elements. So it's not the one thing that calls itself, calls a denture to itself in that zone, the context. It's really just so big now. I think it would be to do with the community. It's a big thing to do with the community. It's a big thing to do with the community. It's a big thing to do with the community. It's a big thing to do with the community. It's a big thing to do with the community. It's a big thing to do with the No. I agree with Mr. Adams on that. Just wanted to say that I agree that Mr. Adams on that. Yeah. I will know that we endorsed generally the massing last time, the height and scale. So although I think Mr. Adams is right, I also am sensitive to the fact that we essentially gave you more detailed comments about the appearance of the facade last meeting. We essentially endorse the massing, but certainly, we're more than open to considering anything you want to show us. And with that said, I guess I'll just leave it to you. And feel free to respond to any of our comments before you ask for deferral or ask for a vote. You know, we do want to hear from you. We appreciate that you work with us. We don't want to make your life difficult. It's just, this is a really visible spot right as you enter Old Town. The building's going to be there for 75 years. So another month, we just want to make sure that it's as good as it can be, even though it is a beautifully designed building right now, the site context may be a little bit more important than the way you're giving to it right now. Yeah. No, I appreciate everyone's time in delivering and looking at this. And I think we will take this feedback back. I think it's, we originally had the building as brick at concept. We were asked to explore something different. I think that we did that successfully. And part of one of the comments that we received back in July in 23 when we were here was to create this screening element of this Assad, which I think we successfully did. But, you know, I appreciate everyone's comments and we'd like to request a deferral. All right. Does anyone have, would anyone like to make a motion based on the applicant's request for a deferral. So moved. Any seconds. Second. Mr. Conkey, do we need a roll call on this one? If you're not doing anything with the demo, then we know we're done. Okay, so all those in favor of a deferral on this item on these items? Say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Well, we will see you back just as soon as you're ready. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Okay. What is the next one, Mr. Conkey? Okay. So the next item of the docket is under new business and a deferral has been requested from this. So let me read it into the record. And then I actually do need a vote to approve the deferral. It's been asked to be deferral due to lack of notice. It was a health issue with the applicant and notice was not able to be given so we're just it'll come back. This is item number six. Item number six, yes. So let me read it into the. Yeah, please do. Number six is BR 2025-0051 Parker-Gray. Equestra all. Number six. I didn't. Number six. Yes. Let me read it into the. Yeah, please do. Number six is BR 2025-0051 Parker Gray. A quest for alterations at 224 North Fayette Street. The applicant is Harold Smith. And again, they've requested the deferral. We get a motion on that. So moved. Second. All those in favor of the deferral? Aye. Any opposed? The deferral is approved. We have some other business. We do. We do have other businesses. So under other businesses this evening we have item number seven. I think the applicants are making the way to the front here. B-A-R-R-2025-007-4, Oldenstorke District, Concept Review of the City Hall and Market Square Garage and Plaza renovation project, at 301 King Street and 108 North Fairfax Street. The applicant is a City of Alexandria, represented by Lisa the Terry architect. Thank you, thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Jeremy McPike, I serve as the Director of the general services for the city. It's my privilege to be here before you to get your feedback on a number of different critical things. I know many of you helped engage with us during the fall. And the next couple slides will sort of do a brief intro of the project and then let the design team sort of get into some of the details and just sort of pathways to discovery through this process. And so we have our design team here with you today, Leo A. Daley, Rust or Leanne Architecture, a land design and E.H.T. tracearies that have been helping us through some of the historic research of this facility. Well, the next slide will touch base on some of the community outreach and engagement. So we did a lot of intentional work this past fall with the design award starting last summer and did a lot of listening and discovery about the facility. Obviously, this civic core nature of this facility is so important. But we wanted to hear from residents because this project sort of combines two really central key elements to Old Town. And Alexander's a whole, one of which is Market Square. The garage, if you've parked in there tonight, you've probably seen, we've got some concrete, some rebar. It's 60 years old. It's sort of at its end of lifespan. Nessette is setting us to really re-envision redesign. And how do we bring back sort of the key elements as well as universal design and accessibility? Right now on Fairfax Street, it's 580 feet from the Fairfax Street side to get to North Royal. If you are pushing a stroller or in a wheelchair. And so there are a lot of elevation challenges that the design team through this discovery process has been going through as well as how do we make sure that the farmers market is still vibrant. And so tonight the team will go through elements of the market square design of how to make sure it continues to thrive as sort of that civic center. Additionally, our team has gone through a lot of considerations through the community engagement, through listening, and then building each component into the different elements from both the market square, but also bringing sort of how that reads into the building, and how treat the 1960 structure. Obviously we're in a fantastic historic wing of the building in the 1871 as it wraps around. But as employees and one who I've been here for 25 years, experiencing this building and working to get into the budget for the last decade, this is an exciting moment. It's sort of every 60 years, this building has been through reimagination, re-envisioning based on lifespan. And so this is one of our moments to figure out the right components and features and elements for this facility. So through this extensive engagement, this has helped us to form and really drive down the elements of activity, both in market square that you'll see tonight as well as within the building, but how this form and sort of the massing and scale and the elements that are before you as a body, Mr. Chair. So as you can see this slide, we've done, I don't know, 40, 50 different meetings and I'll reach a ton of different social in person engagement to help us drive the decisions. We want to listen first and then put pen to paper and that's what this team has done. So next slide. As a project update, on the next slide, you'll see a couple different elements. I think we must have jumped the slide. There we go. We are at the moment through this series of four. We're right at the midpoint here in the slide of the BR concept and working towards the planning commission here by July, as well as city council. So I just wanted to make sure to touch base with you and inform the board members of where we're sort of at from a timeline perspective in our development. So thank you and just appreciate that. For any members of the public who are here, we're doing a concept review here today. So there's not going to be any vote on this project today. The vote will be at a future date. So we will probably have at least one more concept review or not, but certainly we won't be voting on this project today. This is a chance for the city to hear from the residents of Alexandria and also the board on these concepts. So for anyone who wishes to make comments, please keep that in mind. It is in a lot of ways a listening session for the board and also for the city. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And as we transition the feedback tonight on the market square is important as well as how the team is treating the 60s, a 61 addition. How we distinguish that historic structure from the 60s, as well as a fifth floor element. We have a fifth floor today, as you know, we have an employee lounge and fifth floor that extends there. We sort of have a collection of structures that pop up into the fifth floor now, and it's one of the elements of the design team has worked to sort of consolidate a consistent language for that fifth floor. So we appreciate your comment. We'll have some time to walk through that with you tonight. So with that, we're going to turn it over to Sarah with EHT Traceries and the historic team to walk through some of the research, and then we'll get into some of the design elements. So I appreciate it. I'll start feeling anything more cheering for members. My name is Mike Bjornberg, Senior Historic Architect and Preservation Lead at Leo Daly. So let's talk history. Leo Daly's historic architects are teamed with EHT Trace Rees for this project. And Trace Rees has been partnering with us to lead the research and analysis of the city hall. Let's begin and look at some of those findings. Sarah will lead that process. Thank you, Michael. Good evening. My name is Sarah Vonisch. I'm the director of preservation planning with EHT traceries and for the preservation consultants working with the team. Considering the significance of city hall in the long history, it was essential that the current project be guided by a very thorough understanding of the history and evolution of the building over time. To achieve that goal, our team has prepared a historic preservation plan, providing a comprehensive record of the history of the building based on archival research, an assessment of existing conditions and alterations that have taken place over time. And. of record of the history of the building, based on archival research, an assessment of existing conditions and alterations that have taken place over time, and identification of character defining features that should be preserved as part of this project. It's a little difficult to see the text on the slide. I'm sorry for that. This is a condensed version of the timeline that was provided in your package. And I just wanted to walk through some of the key points in time where that affected the physical condition and character of the historic building. So to start, historic city hall was constructed between 1871 and 1873, replacing a series of buildings on the same lot serving the same functions. Those buildings were destroyed by fire in 1871, the same year. The city engaged a prominent architect, Adolf Klus, to design the new city hall. He designed it in the second Empire style, which was popular during this period. And Klus was well known at the time for his public buildings, for his work on public buildings, including markets, police and fire stations, government offices and masonic lodges, and all of those are the components that he needed to, um, incorporate into Alexandria as City Hall. Uh, the clock tower on Royal Street was not designed by clues, but instead was attributed to local architect and builder Benjamin of Price, replicating one sign by Benjamin Latrobe on the previous city hall building that was constructed in 1817. Upon its completion in 1873, the site quickly became the focal point of Alexandria's civic life. And you can see the 1877 Hopkins map a little bit. It shows you the original U-shaped footprint and some of the initial uses of the building. The public city market occupied much of the first floor as well as the rear courtyard along Sharpshire or sometimes referred to as market alley. The east wing along North Fairfax contained the police and fire stations and courtrooms. The North Cavilion along Cameron Street housed the Masonic Temple in the Central Pavilion and that was the Temple of the Alexandria, Washington Lodge and you can see an interior photo there. And the upper floors housed city functions including city offices as well as the council chambers. In the first few decades of its history, City Hall was altered frequently. Some of the initial alterations included relocation and renovation of office spaces and the council chambers removal of the fire station expansion of the police station into that space. Construction of a new market shed at the center of the courtyard, which you can see at the night in the 1912 sandborne, as well as removal of many of the exterior roof elements, including chimneys, roof cresting, and parapets. And you can kind of make that out in the 1890s photograph. In the 1930s and 1940s, as the city government grew, office space slowly took over the first floor market functions and the market moved into the rear courtyard. In 1945 the Masonic Lodge moved to the recently completed George Washington Masonic Memorial and city functions took over that space as well. In 1946 the market was temporarily relocated and the courtyard was excavated for a new boiler system in Smokestack. And then in 1952, an elevator and stair tower were both added to the south elevation within that courtyard. And you can see both of those elements in the 1950s photograph in the middle row. By 1953, the city was so pressed for office space they considered moving city hall to another site altogether. But instead, I'm sure that caused a lot of ruckus in the city, but instead, they decided to construct a major new addition within the courtyard. The resulting colonial revival style addition was designed by local architects Robert E. Willagu and Dwight G. Chase and was completed in 1961. It initially faced onto that alley, but it soon gained greater prominence as the face of City Hall a few years later with the construction of Market Square Plaza and the Plaza Garage. And those were done as part of the Gatsby Commercial Urban Renewal Project completed in 1967. And you can see the in the lower the bottom row the picture the building under construction and then with the construction of the plaza next to it. The last major alteration that I wanted to point out was in the 1980s and it was an alteration designed to better integrate the 1960s edition with the 1871 building. They were kind of designed as separate components and didn't have good connection between them. So as part of this work, the 1871 building was extensively renovated with the insertion of a mezzanine level for additional office space, addition of new corridors, replacement of windows on the original portion, and expansion of the City Council chambers giving us the chambers that we know today. And you can get a sense of the level of alteration as part of this work from the 1981 Habs photograph, which is the last one on this slide. And before I turn it over, I did want to touch on the period of significance, which you see highlighted in yellow on the timeline. The existing national register nomination was prepared in 1984, and that identified a period of significance of 1871. Through our research and analysis, we felt like this was insufficient in recognizing the building's early and important role as the multifunctional civic core of Alexandria. So we have recommended an alternative period of significance expanding it from 1871 to 1945. And that incorporates the designing construction of the building as well as the period in which it operated as, you know, its many functions until the Masonic lives moved out and by that time, in 1945 the market had primarily been moved to the exterior of the building. So this revised understanding really informed our approach and recommendations for the treatment of the building, historic building itself and so I'll hand it over to Michael. Thank you, Sarah. Next slide. This shows the various elements of the building structure, the compound of the buildings. What I have found interesting about this building is this was a structure originally composed of a series of vertical buildings with different vertical functions. And they had different floor heights related to their functions. It's now a singular structure composed of a singular function. Arrange vertically and horizontally with different floor heights and there lies the challenge of any additions that have passed it. And as anybody who moves through it knows, why am I going up this stairwind, why am I going down? What's this ramp for? And why is that? The 60s addition had to make a decision, what am I leveling with? Which then left a lot of the other floors, you know, needing to be navigated. Our preservation goals for this project, three of them. First of all, preserve historic material. Number one, secondly, utilize the Alexandria Design Guidelines, National Park Service Briefs, and Secretary Interior Standards to guide the preservation work. Thirdly, to respect and celebrate the 1871 building and allow the public to read it as originally designed and constructed. A process to do that has been conducting an extensive exterior condition assessment, reviewing prior reports on the project, reviewing prior repair campaigns, and then initiating testing and investigations to identify the appropriate historic solutions, mortar brick those sorts of testing. And what we have found so far is there have been numerous repointing campaigns on this building, some appropriate, some less so. There have been numerous changes to the rough and shingle pattern. The historic windows were replaced with mutton patterns that are not original. The color palette has been modified. The decorative cornice trim has been covered and replaced. So as a result of that, what we are recommending and planning to do is re-point and clean the masonry, 100% matching the historic color composition and profile. Match the original roofs and design, color, texture, and patterning. Replace the windows with historically accurate windows, replicating configuration, color and operation, research and reinstate the original color palette of the exterior, and to work with the design team to develop appropriate design solutions that respect the integrity of the building. I have a short video here. This thing started that shows the chronology. And what we see as the opportunity moving forward is what we have learned from the past, what we've learned about the history of this building, an opportunity to rehabilitate the structure for many generations to enjoy and appreciate, an opportunity to read the original exterior of that building on the exterior as well as it moves inside the building into the courtyard and be able to understand the whole historic building and And then an opportunity to better differentiate the historic from that which has been constructed later that is not historic So with that I'd like to move to the future arena Thank you Michael good evening board chairman and board members. I am a rena Savakava Global design principle with Leo a daily and design lead for this project I hope you can hear me well. I'm not sure that Mike is working all that well so I would like to start with one observation It is quite special to be able to start a conversation with you in this space, in this building. It's both humbling and rather inspiring. So design solutions are usually based on a very deliberative process and they take time. Sound outcomes and sound decisions are always part of a very extensive analysis and very detailed research. And my colleagues, Michael Björmurk, and he's already shared some of our findings to this point. So as we focus our attention on the proposed interpretation and reinvention of City Hall, which is incredibly important element of both the urban fabric of Alexandria, all town, and preserving and advancing with reverence this national treasure that is also a landmark within the fabric of our country and its history. I would like to start with the analysis so I can present our ideas and context and the reverence to the history with the process of deliberation and analysis that we have actually undergone. So I would like to start with context and ambience within the site. So if you start with the original primary entrance, there is quite a deliberate scale proportions incorporated in what we call the historically significant building. There is absolute clarity in an entrance, axle connection, and point of arrival from Cameron Street. Then if we point our attention to the south facade of the building that is facing Market Square, it is obvious that it is a layer that is added on with a different prominence of what was not initially an open public space or a public square. So with that, I would like to introduce a deeper level of analysis. So if we take the most important context with respect to all the design guidelines that are already part of all time and how the ambience of the context of this really important buildings have been shaped. And we start from the origin, proportion, scale, and modulation. And pick up some of these cues to be able to interpret what the proper entrance for what is now the main facade of the building and what is the proper delineation between the different layers of infusion into the architecture and the programmatic functionality of this building. So if you look at this bay and there is absolute clarity of what an entrance point will be, and it's the very traditionally respected proportions of what is a main point and what a flanking base. If the building on the south side would not have been flanking existing structures, we would not have been looking at to blank flanking facades of the main entry rentana. However, we can take cues from what we described as a pavilion, all the two object elements on either side of Cameron Street, what holds the corners at the intersection of Cameron Street, North Royal and North Royal Street and North Fairfax. So if you take that, I do believe that in terms of reverence to the original history and the exquisite attention to proportions and scale, it does make sense to go back just for a second into the origins of architecture of classical character, if we go one further, and how it is all defined. So we can make a reference to all the way back to 16th century of how Andrea Paladio described for all the follow, the main principles of hierarchy, composition, what is main, what is secondary, and how all the other proportions are created from a building. So with that, if we move further into a slight analysis, what if we embrace an approach, and a proposed approach for us right now, is what if we present an idea where the harmony of all the layers of this building are actually brought together and are described and highlighted and focused on in the way that they're intended. What if we take the historically significant building which is quite precious in the way attention to detail was carried in how it was introduced and we look at the elements that can be elevated further in terms of creating the proper hierarchy on the South facade, creating a proper entry along that facade. And I have intentionally outlined the center element, the two flanking facettes that come from the original building, and what the presence of the original facade and the original entry on Cameron Street is. So what if we take the approach of providing clarity between the original and the 1960s in Phil, and we have a clear definition of a place and a time, because we will be introducing, reimagined and re-thought in a way, City Hall for the public presence, for the functionality within the building. We need to create that sense of openness, arrival sequence, and kind of a welcome for the citizens, not only just the tourists that are visiting, and create that synergy with Market Square. So if we take that approach and we take it a step further, what we can next one please. We can start taking the cues from the elements of what I described as the pavilions that are holding the main entrance facade and the corners of the original presence. presence and we can start introducing that into the 1960 facade that never had proper entry. I have to say, if you're looking from King Street on the axial approach, in a way, the stage that is blocking the view with its top piece is creating a pediment or an entry point, a definition from afar, the building of this type and this character in this stature does require to have a proper entry. So what if we express that entry? What if we create these two clear highlights where the two stairs are located, one is on the side of the council chamber, and we provide a canvas of transparency where these stairs are. So in a way, we're creating a break between the original historical significance and the infill. And we are opening the scene of being able to create an adequate, functionally proper for the typology of this building in the same time reverent to the character of the context and the ambience facade. What if we take it a step further? Usually classical buildings, when they were designed, they not always reflected the character of the spaces that are inside. However, we do have the ability of being capable functionally to create proper scale proportion on the front facade and the entry and actually convey a formal significance of a meeting space behind the what is now just punched windows, three punched windows in the center of the building on the second level, and create that visual connectivity from the inside of the building. So all of a sudden, we actually have in the origin of how the language of architecture and proportions was settled, we have the language that we can take from the original building, and we can apply it in terms of proportions and create a semblance, hierarchy of a main entrance of the building. The building currently features two arcades and arcades are something that is quite important for how buildings are layered, especially buildings of civic character. It's that layered transition between insight and outside is really important. However, the current arcades are missing what is usually classically really important. The top piece that belongs to the proper proportional relationship, and there is no light that is coming. So the spaces are more than unwelcoming at the current exist. So we do have an opportunity of creating the proper proportion with a transparent glass handrail to create the balustrade that is actually bringing the proportions to what the right scale will be relative to the existing building and what the top, middle, and base of a building of this height and character can be. We can bring the light in the edges of these arcades. So you can actually see the light where the stairs are and the two exits are by creating a glazed version of that segment. So in a way, the light can carry the proper functionality in having that intuitive weight finding as a description. So if we move forward, we have a lot more to cover. So I'm just suggesting in this particular case to offer the opportunity that we now have to go beyond what a purely exterior approach in a classical sense of architecture originally was embedded. So we can actually create interior spaces that are reflected on the architecture scale and proportion of the exterior. We need to be able to create a synergy between market square and the building. This is one campus. That's how we look at this. It's one synergetic entity that is the origin of what any civic building and market square is. It's the functionality inside, the components and the functionality on the outside. So the spaces where the two arcades can actually create these venue spaces that function both for market and for the building. And they can now be washed with light and can be much more inviting. on level second where we're proposing in large the center three Windows to actually come and engage with the floor line of the building So we create that hierarchy that can be a meeting space a space of prominence So there is a synergy between exterior expression and formality of functionality that is on the inside So if we continue forward, I would like to compare what our proposal is relative to the existing facade. So you can see both side by side. Let's move further so we can see more of three dimensional tools for your guidance and judgment. So we have intentionally selected massing that is monochromatic. So it is more about scale and proportions rather than anything beyond that. So you can see that the two highlights or definitions of glazed segments where the two stairs currently are. These glass faces are moved further into the building because currently, the way the 1960s infill is designed, it hits in two different places through openings, through each one of these two story openings, revealing only half on this particular site and two thirds on the opposite side which is Something that we can very easily overcome. There is something very precious if we were able to uncover the original historic building and display what is that character without Actually Dealing with what has been somewhat of an unfortunate architectural move at the time. So if we move further, I would like to show you different viewpoints because it is important to introduce that historic market alley and what the character will be in the visibility of that glass box of an entry point. And one level further, we like to display buildings usually in a very abstract way. Eventually, the lushness of the vegetation will create a beautiful blend with everything else that the building has to offer. So I included both views. So you can see it with established vegetation still with a level of transparency, so we're not hiding anything. And let's go back to the memory of that market alley. It will be quite wonderful to actually have presence on market alley, which is the reason why we're suggesting that the actual entry vestibule can be expressed in transparent way as an object of slight introduction of functionality within market square. So there is the visibility that currently does not exist on that particular facade. So let's move forward and focus on MarketSquare. I never think of the building in MarketSquare as disconnected. It's one synergetic fluid type of connectivity. It's very dynamic. There is a formality in the building, which relates to its architectural style through all these different decades, as well as the order and the stylistic approach that is chosen. In addition to that, it can be conveyed just like it is today through the market square, but there is also a market it's a public space. So there is an element of playfulness and a little bit more, a little bit less rigidity that can be introduced in this type of space. Our goals were really focused on avoiding the current accessibility issues. So, providing a very intuitive type of transition from different points of entry without any obstacles when it comes to ADA and making ADA actually seamless part of cohesive design rather than partial solution in different places. Eliminating unsightly elements as well as creating different scales and providing main hierarchical elements and secondary hierarchical elements. So you can see if we go to the next slide, thank you Michael. You can see that we are trying to create an arrival point from King Street. That arrival point never had what they'll call a vestibule, an outdoor enter room. There are all the tourists, the buses. There is a lot of vibrancy on that street. There is a benefit of being able to push the geometry just a little bit in an inviting fashion with the geometry that does not belong to the building, but it's kind of soft and allows for this whole cherville near approach with steps and seating that is part of the arrival from King Street. And that addresses the level of formality of the South North axis of the building. We're proposing an introduction of secondary, transverse type of axis that is tied to the entry to the parking garage. That is a functional element that will stay in its current position. It cannot be transitioned because of great changes in variety of other purely practical reasons. In a way, it sits in a place that is really good in terms of being able to bring variety of different scales and spaces within Market Square without getting in the way of the formal access and the arrival point and everything that we are used to enjoying market square during the week, as well as the functionality of market square during the weekend and all the vibrancy that market square needs to bring. We're proposing that actually the important feature, the water feature, is an element that can offer as much presence and vibrancy and character as well as flexibility. So if we can see an art form that is part of a pavement and a graphic on the pavement level, and allow for water to be turned on and off, then this allows the ultimate flexibility for the functioning of market square. And that is important for the city. It's important for the vendors. It's important for everybody who's been enjoying the longest functioning market square in the country. So during the months where a fountain is also closed due to weather, we might enjoy an opportunity of looking at an art form or a graphic of a kind that is very artistic and very complementary to the city. There are two types of shade structures, a stage, and potentially a shaded element that that is right above steps that are kind of wrapping and developing the entry into the parking garage. It is, we're proposing that is located in the corner on the south west side. And it's almost an element that is framing the arrival point, because the arrival points, if you're coming from the water front or you're coming from the opposite side, from the west side, they're at different level. You arrive at great if you're coming from the West, and you ascend up with the consecutive stairs and a nice wall that is holding that corner that we're proposing. So usually markets, squares, public squares, need to have an informational and functional element. So think of this element as holding the corner, and at the same time providing opportunities for what traditional key Oscar information piece might be. But in a way balancing what will be the stair arrival sequence, which is very different from the southeast side compared to what the southwest side is. And we have included a couple of images of ideas about the actual shading elements are. Elevational and sectioned street cuts are really important so we'd like to show the cadence and the sequence of how these elements can be perceived on both sides from both viewpoints and additional, I already mentioned, our idea of the fountain being much more flexible than the current entity, without taking anything away from the festivities, from the character, from what the community is looking for in having a water feature that's incorporated in the plaza. When we meet with you at a much more advanced stage stage the design, we'll have materials and a lot of other components with us. However, I would like to introduce at this point our commitment to being reverent to the architecture, the character and the design guidelines of the city. And I already mentioned several times the market alley and the memory of it. So if we look at the denser hedge pattern that we're providing on this drawing, what if that is the coloration of something that goes with the traditional of what we are experiencing right now? And it dissipates further down on the south axis. And then we look at opportunities having maybe lighter colors on the pavement for creating these urban living rooms as I designed them as I intend to describe them that are on either side of the two clusters of trees that are facing the venue spaces or the elements that can belong both to the building and to the side beyond the arcades. And then the variety of elements that we can introduce with the steps in the geometry that we're proposing on the south side on King Street, light can be incorporated. The space needs to transition gracefully through different times of the day. And we have included for your review, again, very abstract type of visualization tools that can show you the arrival points. So further away on the intersection at King Street and Verifax, you can see the stairs ascending from that arrival point. We think that there is an incredible benefit in the wall that is holding the plaza level up above that can be the element of storytelling that can be part of this whole element of arrival that is much more formal on that side. As you come in further, the opposite entry into the plaza, as I was describing it, if you come in and you go past the elevator and the stair element that's holding the corner, it's kind of a moment of discovery for City Hall. As you move further, the building reveals itself and then there is the element of the stage canopy that can be much more transparent and not so up-trusive. So then we see the busks of trees that are on either side. So it's the layering, the variety and the vibrancy that we're trying to preserve. And now I would like to focus our attention on the fifth floor that this building has. As a matter of detail, the building has a six floor, but that's within the dome. So it's something that we need to keep in mind, there are some spectacular views from there that are currently occupied and used for mechanical equipment. So there is something to be desired and something to be captured. So usually when we walk past buildings and we're part of an urban fabric for a long time, there are elements that are unsightly, but we get used to them and we look past them. There are quite a lot of elements on the fifth floor and we've shown variety of views and for the elevator overrun for the stairs that are coming to that level. In close-up, all the colors are important because that's how the pure functionality of these elements works. The ship's ladder, and it's actually a tone-down version, it's much more bright in daylight. And all these elements are in close proximity to very precious architecturally significant elements that should be enjoyed without much of interference. So we have an opportunity of actually coming up with a fairly streamlined definition of the fifth floor that is unobtrusive, that is streamlined, and it's significantly lower and not in height and not so heavy hazard. So for that, I would like to illustrate what we're proposing with the Sightline diagrams, because it's really important. You can see the variety of objects that are coming up and the Sewet of the building, as you all know at this point, and what can be Much more streamlined type of a definition of what is proposed. So both viewpoints is what I would like to illustrate to you so you can see how it all looks in context a Different way to be able to illustrate with Existing Qflore height which is shown diagrammatically in blue and then the proposed which is a bit lower again Very streamlined and connecting all need all need and necessary elements that do have to exist on the fifth floor, like stairs and elevators. Few more digital and tools paired with photography from the exact same viewpoint. So you get the ability to compare the visibility of what will be the fifth floor. So we took the most remote points where one can perceive the intervention and the proposed streamlining of the fifth floor from every single viewpoint. point is further away is one can actually see it and we have paired those with model views so you can get a true impression at a street level of what the impact will be of what we're proposing. And again, a summary for what we would like to get your feedback on and your comments so thank you for starting the dialogue with us. Again, it's humbling to be part of this. Thank you very much for your presentation. I'd like to propose to my colleagues that because this is a concept review and there's really no deliberation and vote that before we ask questions and have a discussion we hear from the public so that they can inform the discussion. So hold your pressing questions and I'd like to invite any members of the public who have filled out comment cards or would like to fill one out and speak. Mayor, do we have comment cards for this one? We do. Would you just like to call the folks up? Maybe call the first two and they can go to each. Sure. Okay, turn. First we have Mr. Day 113, or Fairfax Street, uh, followed by Mr. John Patrick. So Mr. Day and Mr. Patrick, if you want to just head up to the two lecterns, one of you can speak and then the other one can go next. Um, Mr. Day is that you? Oh, this is me. Oh, that's you. OK. Well, come on. Make sure to turn on your microphone and tell us your name. Tell us your name. I think we have the address of the record. So just start as you're listening. So you only need to do is tell me how to turn this on. I think it's on. So all right. Do for everyone live? Then that's fine. The address is on record on the comment card. We have it. So before you speak, I just want to let every all the speakers know that you have three minutes. If you're speaking on behalf of a civic organization, you have five minutes. So we'll try not to cut you off, but it's late and we have a lot of people. And we will have another concept review, so if you don't get your last thought, just hold that thought and come back to the next meeting. I hope I have fewer than three minutes of comments. My intention is to speak briefly. My name is Horace Day. I'm a property owner. I own one of the 18th century buildings that faces onto market square. And I have occupied a place that I acquired from a member of my family. And they were here during the renovations in the 1960s. So I have photographs of the construction of the parking lot, which I'm sure was in use, but they didn't talk about a lot, but they were glad it was done. First of all, I'd like to express my support for the antenna expressed to use energy efficient and durable materials where feasible and compatible with a respect for the structure that is being renovated. Second, I'd like to express my appreciation and respect for the sincerity of the city and the architect's efforts to build community input into the design process for market-square and city hall critical comments are directed at the proposed South elevation city hall renovation. The concept plan for the city hall south of the sun, as depicted on page nine, of the staff analysis, is a rather dismal contribution to quote the architecture of our time, close quote. This should be instead an occasion for humility, for an opportunity to look for ways to articulate the concepts of the 1960 facade design that were reportedly truncated for cost reasons. The facade is constructed as neoclassical portions with a missing center mass. The architects view that a center mass is needed is sound but should be approached differently. Rather than contemporary signature architecture, the intention of the original design should be a better guide for a renovation that would contribute to the neighborhood architectural scheme. The concept plan for the south facade should be revised to realize a design objective more in tune with its setting. With that in mind, the plus of scheme as well may require some modifications. Those are my remarks. Thank you. Thank you very much. Mr. Patrick and Ms. Lane, if you can tell us whose next they can go up to the lectern. Okay. Okay. You can. Sorry, sorry. Um, Mr. Dino Derooney. You can go up to that. Okay. So Mr. Patrick, is that your name? Yes. All right. The floor is yours. Thank you. I'm John Patrick. I live at 700 Bracks in Place. And I'm speaking for myself as someone who's had a long interest in Alexandria history. I've lived here since 1984 and I moved here specifically for the history. An architectural history is particularly important. What I'd like to talk about, I agree with the gentleman that we are not paying enough attention to the fact that the 1960s style is also an historical style. It may not be formally designated as that, but it is indeed part of our history. And we might want to consider staying a bit more with the original style. If we can have a much larger doorway, we do not need to styles to accomplish that. But I won't dwell on that because my real concern is what we should see above the roof line of the building that everyone agrees is of primary importance here which is the Victorian building. What should we see above those second-empirar roofs? My answer would be nothing. There is no reason to see, to look up from the street from any angle and see anything except the roof line as intended or as close as we can get at a reasonable cost to restoring what it originally looked like. Fortunately, it looks a good deal like it, it may not have the roof columns and so on. But that would be the goal. Why go to all the trouble of making sure that this building looks as close as possible to the architects and tent, and then stick something up above the roof line at whatever height, you should be able to approach the original building from any angle and see the original building. That is my comment. Thank you very much. Thank you. And I'm going to be very brief. Thank you. Please tell us your name. I'm Dino Drudy. Thank you. I'm Dino Drudy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank discussed very much is the steeple. Is my understanding from, I think, an article by Michael D. Pope that the steeple is seven degrees off vertical. My question is, is that do they plan to fix that? and if so how and Will the fixes be visible from from various advantages from the ground and if so Those should at least be discussed here as well as maybe other places, in terms of how they would appear and what their historic significance might be. I feel that this is important and was left out of the general presentation. Thank you. Thank you. Ms. Lane, who are our next two speakers? Next we have Ms. Gell Rothrock representing H-A-F and followed by Yvonne Cahann representing Old Town Civic Association. All right, Ms. Rothrock, you have five minutes as you're representing your organization. Thank you, I don't think I need that. Thanks very much, Gil Rothrock representing historic Alexandria Foundation. And you've received the comments of the foundation and a letter that I think is attached to your packets. And I want to speak to reinforce those comments about this landmark building, but I also have a couple of other comments. I attended three of the public engagement meetings at City Hall led by Jeremy McPike and his consultants and I just want to compliment them and how courteous they were to residents and how they did listen. And I think as a result, the market square plan is gonna be a great asset to the city. I particularly look forward to the results of the historic interpretation archeological study that I think is underway and how that will be introduced into the design. And I think staff rightfully gives kudos to the consultants for their preservation approach to the 1871 building and the very good history that the consultants wrote addressing and their proposals on this actuary of interior standards, I think are extremely encouraging of how this will be treated. But to me, there's a big elephant in the room that was just addressed by John Patrick, and I'm just not aware of any point in these meetings and these citizen meetings that we were told that there was going to be a fifth floor. And so I just don't understand the need. It's very vague. It sounds like it's a need for meeting space. It's hard to believe there's more meeting space needed in a building that's already this big. Or if it's going to be rented out, then I think we need to think about what's the competition with commercial buildings that already have space to run out and why is the city doing this at taxpayer expense. So I really would like the BAR to ask the consultant to work with staff to figure out why this is so needed. And I just think this is a very in Congress imposition. It just doesn't. It just is incompatible with the historic structure. And it needs to be gone. I'd like to reinforce the preservation principle that was stated by W. Brown Morton, the author of the Secretary of Interior Standards, and the quote that we put in our letter, the ethical idea here is that less is more, the smaller the degree of change, the greater the level of retained integrity. And so I think that's a really good principle to stand on in thinking about why do we need to have a fifth floor. So also there's been some advice that perhaps if there is going to be a fifth floor, it needs to really recede. And I think the consultants have proposed a white terracotta and certainly a much more dull color, such as gray, would be better if you decide you have to have this thing. So I have one other point to make about this addition. If you all approve such an addition as this on our landmark building, what's gonna happen when the next landmark building comes in here, Carlisle House or Gatsby Stavron as an extreme example? But I think we need to honor our history here. And then our letter addresses the bump out. I think that's gonna cause a lot more congestion that we already have and the terrible thing of closing the 200 block of Duke Street has really caused a jam up. This is gonna be even worse. And so to the extent that you have purview over the design and the historic street pattern, which include the dimensions laid out by George Washington, I really encourage you to discourage that idea. And then this I know you have no No jurisdictions are over, but just one more comment. These council chambers have a certain wonderful dignity and a sense of history in them. And I hope if they do put this new council chamber on the first floor that you and as many of the council meetings as possible can be still held in this room. Thank you. Thank you. All right, please tell us your name and the association that you're representing. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the AR. My name is Avon Wade Callahan and I'm president of Old Town Civic, but I don't think I'll be taking my full five minutes. I have to say I agree with Gail on a lot of things and in particular on the wonderful reception we have had from staff and the consultants. This is the gold standard of how we should be presented with things of this magnitude and given the opportunity to weigh in. I think there was a remarkable public consensus on the on market square and it's very, very good. I sort of feel as if my early adult held up till now has been around City Hall. When I started going to court, the courtrooms were still here. The air conditioning was so bad, the windows were often open, which meant that you would be trying to address the judge in a very professional fashion, but it would be birds flying back and forth through the courtroom. And you were always afraid of what was really going to happen so that we've come a long way. I do have, I'm gonna start with my main concern, this fifth floor. I'm a little distressed that we have not seen pictures here tonight of what we saw earlier. I know that they did not show that the glass wall was not particularly shown, is not being particularly visible from King Street, but then other renditions show that they were very visible, too visible, distractingly visible from Cameron and Royal and Fairfax. So I would ask that next time we have a go around, we see this, but we're given the chance to see that a lot more clearly because I think that's really very significant. You have to remember that the design guidelines themselves indicate that although new modern things should not overwhelm the existing building, and they should not be confused with the existing building. But they still have to be compatible. And to me, a glass on the fourth floor, if so visible, would not be appropriate at all. The one rendition that you can kind of see the idea right here, but the entrance to me showed two sets of three arches each and a square perpendicular shaped entrance, which frankly looked like the entrance to a shopping center. I think something has to be done about that. It just looks out of place. The little bit that we saw on the, I think it was the one that showed the bumpouts that Gail referred to over on Fairfax Street, that seemed to indicate that there was a bit of a wall there. And if I recall comments from the public looking at the market square designs, almost a lot of people pointed out that the brick wall we see now, mostly along King Street, but also goes around a little bit, just makes it look like an unnecessary barrier. There's no invitation there to go up the steps or something. And I thought that we were getting into wider steps, maybe lower risers to create the sense of no wall or fewer less walls and more access all the way around. So I think that's another thing that should be looked at. I've always wondered what the color is. I'm not sure what the color is. I'm not sure what the color is. I'm not sure what the color is. I'm not sure what the color is. I'm not sure what the color is. I'm not sure what the color is. I'm not sure what the color is. I'm not sure what the color is. I'm not sure what the color is. I'm not sure what the color is. It's going to take people a while to get used to that. But this is the chance to also provide some education as to how this is devolved. I really look forward also to, and this won't be before you, what we're going to do with the interior. But thank you very much. Thank you. Do we have any more speakers with forms? All right, well, I really appreciate all the comments from the public. We'll close the public portion of the hearing now. And now we're gonna put it to questions and comments from the board. We will give you an opportunity to respond to the comments from the public, but I'm hoping you can just come out organically in the discussion. So, Ms. Andi, would you like to start? So, I appreciate all the research on historic aspects and the design. I have a question on the shoot or like the chimney that's in the courtyard right now. You can kind of see it in some pictures from the exterior. So I was wondering if that's, I saw that I think I'm not sure what was the purpose for it originally. I think I saw that it was put in in some time in 1950s. If you could just tell me, I apologize if everybody else knows, but I don't know what was the purpose for it. And if it's being demolished or kept preserving it. Let me respond to that. The smoke stack was part of the original heating system, currently not used, and we we're proposing after analysis to actually demolish that we tried creatively to incorporate it. It's almost like an object fully as cultural element within the whole study and we were not able to integrate that properly. We were also suggesting that the two flanking chimneys, that are decorative on either side of the central element, and they're mimicking a style that is not even the style that the 1916 edition represents, that those for clarity are actually taken away. They're not original. And yeah. And add one thing to that. The smoke stack is not original. It's part of the outside the period of significance. So it's not attributing element to the historic building. All right, that was my next question. That is the historic preservation or OK we did for being removed so it's not a search? Yes, it was built in the early 20th century. Grab me from Rome. It was built in the early 20th century. Not original to the Adolf, it all includes part of the building at all. Just part of the many interventions into the courtyard that have happened over the years. So yes, reservations fine with it. So I do like some of our speakers mentioned. I do like to see a little bit more on the massing of the fifth floor. And kind of maybe these diagrams that you had, one that it shows the view from the street, from different sides of the building. I'll, well, I guess, three sides you can see it more. And if it obstructs the view to the, what's it called, the Mason's Tower or not, I would just like to see it from the street and also from the buildings, you know, the adjacent buildings, but mainly from the street when people are looking at it. And what would be the material, just a little bit more, I know that this is very conceptual, but as we go on for the next one. The other thing is that I do agree that the entry, I think needs to be a little bit more worked on. Right now it looks like an entry to a retail store. I think it can be, it doesn't much relate to the sides that are arcade and I'm not saying necessarily it needs to look like that but just somehow it doesn't I think it just needs to be worked on a little bit more to fit with the history and the look of the building more. I appreciate that you're opening the first floor behind the arcade to have more to let more light in. But I think the vision of the glass, if it relates more to the windows above, with smaller divisions of light, I think that would be more fitting with the style of the building and with all town. we do have a lot on the first four storefronts to also have smaller divisions. And then going to the Plaza, the market square, I do really, I think again, it's the building It has a very formal look, very traditional and symmetrical. The new one that is proposed is very modern and active. It has a very, like the lines around the, it just doesn't respond design-wise to the building and to all-town. I think it needs to be a little bit more responsive to the building. It has very, I think the elements that are shown right now are two modern and two, two, it's like the building is very stable, like very, very straight lines, square, but the plows are in front of it is very active. All the lines are rounded and curved, kind of like it has motion in it, but the building is very stable. So I think they don't necessarily go with each other. And also I saw in some of the slides that you were showing the paving, that's just something else to be mindful of, to respond back to the paving in the old town, which is all brick or smaller. I saw some of them very again, two modern like long and just something to be mindful of to be responsive to the context. A lot of tourists come and use this plaza besides the market, as McLeffey done the weekends. I think that was all my comments. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Adams, would you like to make comments? Thank you. One of the most important things we'll ever do. All of us looking at this city square for another time. It reminded, sort of thinking of how important it is, I was reflecting on travel when we've been in Europe, when there's a palace or maybe a museum on the city squares or there's a courthouse in America or a church. So this idea of open space that isn't historically the way it was but has become something that we've claimed that does reflect these classic old city patterns. Makes it so, so important. Just referring quickly to the second empire portion of the building, of course, that's all makes perfect sense to taking wonderful care of that. I do want to note something I found interesting that the clock tower is a replica of something of an earlier period. Latrobe, I think, at the top. So they've, it's the point being that reflecting or incorporating architecture from an earlier period and not something made of black bricks, steel, and black paint or whatever it is our vote right now. It is a time honored system to use elements of the past. The Romans use the Greek elements. I mean, it's just historic, but it's always in something we can call on. And that leads me to the comments about the 1961 edition. The, if I just take each element on that facade, the first thing I'll choose is no particular order. Oh, the hyphids. I was thinking, I can see where you like to separate and academically, it makes sense. I think there might be an easier way to do that. It does reset back a little bit as when I was walking up. So they're already somewhat of, it is a hyphid. The windows, they're confusing. They're exactly the same as the body of the building. Maybe by changing the windows, does something else? I don't know if the stairs would indicate you could do something smaller windows or something that separates it from the 61 addition. Maybe it's paint, stucco, whatever. Just if you want to have those separations, I think there's an easier and less expensive way to do it. The second thing, the market square orches, on Saturday morning when it rains, the flower market people move into those spaces. Of course, we also sometimes have homeless people there, but that's not a question of our architecture. But I think it's that they do reflect this idea of the market that was here. Maybe it's not exactly what was here but the idea. So I think in the 1960s vernacular, I think they're pretty good the way they are because they don't align with the building that we're trying to create the hyphen and the other windows. I think I would just leave them as is. I think possibly some daylight in there, but I don't think that, again, that's an expense. What are we getting from it? I think it's a wrong idea to have at your windows there, like a store or shopping element. It's all these glass elements. At certain times of the day, they're reflective. They call attention to themselves in an untraditional way. And also, what do you see? Every building condo with glass all over the place, the first thing they do is shades and drapes, curtains. So I think you're just creating a problem there. These are flexible use places, spaces, when I see the plans. And whoever's inside is gonna wanna close them. And I just think good enough is good enough for now. Again, the savings. I didn't like the glass ballast raid there. I'm mute on the, maybe there's some skylights in the roof there, but again, I just don't think that you're calling attention to something that's not bad right now. It's just, you know, do we want to change it or not? The most important thing though, in my mind, is this front door. In 1961, the local architect probably had a more special idea, Perhaps I don't know if somebody could look at this architect's work and see what he would have done if budget was not, did not have to be cut and just have, you know, this very small thing. It's the copy of the Governor's Palace in Williamsburg, but the scale is completely different. This is another 30% of space. So the entrance has always been just an interesting element. And also when you describe from King Street that you see the, what was temporary, a villain there, that's what catches your eye. But even then, because of the slope, I'm proposing what if something was taller? It was two stories tall. It was a portico or some kind of classical element in the colonial revival, vernacular, very carefully done. Maybe I did like the taller windows, but why couldn't it be a balcony where somebody could come out and have another performing space, if you will? I think those are the main points I wanted to make. I'd like to see this front door really expanded. And in the style, as one of the speakers also said, it's not wrong to use a classical style it fits with a building it may look like their original architect had meant for that to be and it's just it's better than what we've got now and it's in harmony with the building thank you thank you mr. Adam Miss Miller would you like to make comment? On this building I really appreciate if I could be a two series two step speaker. I'd like to hear what my architectural colleagues up here have to say about the building first before I tell you what to think. But secondly, because I respect what they have to say. And secondly, I had some questions for you all. Well, my preface, which I should have said and didn't thank you all. The presentations were excellent from the city representative to architects and tracery and all of you. I was really thoughtful and informative. I think this is a really big project and we can't possibly address it all right now, but I had some questions. I've taken so many notes on the back of paper, you have to give me a moment to pull myself together here, but a period of significance, I wanted to address that because you said originally this was 1871. And the addition was 1960s. And you thought the period of significance, if I understood you correctly, was to be boiled down into probably 1945. Is that what you were saying? Yeah, from our perspective, the period of significance was an important consideration from the beginning, because it really helped us understand what features of the building, what historic features needed to be preserved or what was character defining. So the individual national register nomination that was done for the building identified a period of significance of 1871. So that doesn't really encompass much. It only encompasses the design and not the construction and when it opened. And when we looked at the history and the significance of the site, it's really significant not only for its architecture, but it was designed to serve so many functions. It was supposed to be the multifunctional hub of the city. So it had the police and fire station. It had the courthouses. It had the city offices, as well as the other aspects of city life, the Mason's Temple, and the market. So by 1945, all of those uses had left the building, and it was primarily municipal city offices. So that's really what we considered when we identified a potential period of significance ending in 1945. But that doesn't, does that? Is that inference to the 1971, I'm sorry, 1871 original city hall? So in deference, I'm not sure it is in deference to the city hall. The 1871 building is kind of the jewel of this whole complex. But looking more broadly at the history, including the later history with the urban renewal, I think that's why we ended with a date at 1945. Okay, and Kitabai could also ask you what while you, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and what is outside the period of significance and might not contribute to the significance of the building. So that big 1871 to 1945 period, something Michael, you wanna add something? Well, as Sarah noted, 1871, it wasn't constructed yet. So you got to at least expand it to when it was constructed. So that would be 1873-ish. But then when you look at it functioning and the things that were happening in it, you want to include that in the period of significance as well. It was that major shift, like I said before, where it was a series of structures of a series of buildings of different functions. When that all changed to one function and a series of buildings, that was really a turning point for this building's history. Okay, understand. I wanna say, and then I'll let you speak, Bill, that we don't necessarily consider function. We are an architectural board. And so I'm a little unsettled that the data significance of the building would be moved up based on function. I'm just bringing it up because it's a concern. I think the original building is, it's a statement of our city in the time and it's an important landmark. So I'm just wondering how we evolve into the guidance and it's really something you all have to grapple with as well. But that 1871 to, to be right, is an important date. I think we might be on the, on, we're agreeing. I think, so this is based on, in our assessment, we're using the National Register guidance when defining period of significance. And I think we're on the same page, the 1871 building, the architecture, the significance of the architectural elements includes this design of utmost significance and importance and needs to be respected as part of the project. So. Okay. All right, Bill. Just to finish what I want to clarify. I mean, this board doesn't really deal with period of significance very often, because we, you know, we talk about, we do sometimes when we talk about maybe a building that was Victorianized or something. And we say, okay, the new Victorian style has taken on its significance. That's typically how this board looks at the period of significance. So I just want to kind of come back a little bit on that. But I think by declaring this period of significance from the 1871 to 1945, that really is the, what we think of the old part of the building. That is, and that's going to inform you guys as you guys look to do the restoration work, you'll be restoring the building to that period. And what it's trying to do is really saying that that's the original period of the building and that something interventions that happen in the 1960s, for instance, can be modified. And it kinda splits, and you guys please cut me from wrong, it splits that difference between restoration and then renovation, and is that a, is it Chris Stevens? Well, we're not proposing is moving the 1871 date to 1945. Okay. Proposing, it comes a bigger area. Yes. And all of that then is significant. Okay. If we were to go all the way to today, then everything here is significant. But it would be up to that moment. So it would be a larger area of a larger time span that we consider significant. Not moving from 1871 to 19. I could see where that would concern you. It was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, it's not that. But it just gives more significance to the building. Oh, okay. Thank that clarification. I'm gonna wait here for my colleagues. Okay, we'll come back to you later then. You may have more comments later. Okay, great. Ms. Del Nino. Thank you. Of course, I agree with everyone. This is our building, especially the Cameron Street facade and the trope's beautiful elevation. And I'll start with the building too, just as Mr. Adams had done. You spoke about hierarchy of an elevation. And I'd like you to really embrace that with the entrance, because now we have a new entrance to City Hall, and I think it should really look like that. I saw the interior plans and was really excited at the way you were able to join the two lobbies, because that was a design challenge. How, you know, what do you do with the Cameron Street lobby? And so I think you can expand that idea, you know, to the South elevation and really make up a beautiful entrance. I also agree with Mr. Adams, you know, that the emphasis on the hyphen and kind of dismembering this 1960s addition. I don't feel that is as important as developing a nice new entrance for City Hall. the fifth floor, I agree with Mr. Patrick that it will be important not to have that fifth floor addition extend much beyond the nineteen or the 1871 Empire Building. I think that's important. It is a public building and having a roof terrace up there, I think, would be really exciting for people. And they'd be able to look out onto Market Square. I've been up there because we respond to every RFP. You know, so I know what, you know, what a real disaster it is with all the mechanical equipment and, you know, it's a real challenge. So I think that could really be a nice beautiful element for the fifth floor, as long as it's, you know, minimally visible, you know, from, really from the north and the east and the west, I think having it visible from the south, I don't think that's a grigis. I think there is a lot of opportunity, tried to enhance the south elevation and something elegant and appropriate could really help on that level. I think that would work. So for the, I wanted to talk a little bit about the, the male sing on the plaza. Again, you know, actually I live on Cameron Street. So I see, you know, the elevation, the North elevation every day, and I take the capital bike share pretty much almost every morning there on Royal and King Street and go to the Saturday market. So it's some, I see that it's just used at all different times of the day by all different groups of people. And I think you're thought about not having a, so that it's not disconnected is important. And I would encourage you to try to maximize the open space. I know we don't speak a lot about landscape, but I'd prefer to just have maybe the one line of trees on the north end just to maximize space for the market and for congregation. I think it's very clever the seeding that's developed over the entrance to the parking because you're really getting to use that verticality. I think it's maybe not even a bad idea to expand it a little wider that might give you a little more vision to the pavilion on the west side. Which I think all that's great, and it's great the fountain is leaving, and we have a little curve on King Street there. I think that'll be nice. The massing of the stair and the elevator on the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the west. And so opening up those corners, I think, would be a good move. I know that it's flat, that's a great thing on Royal Street. And I think, you know, the market there, that's really an ideal place for a lot of vendors. So I think those were all my thoughts of the canopies canopies. I think that that's going to be, you know, useful for everyone there. Seating the curve. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Delano. Mr. Spencer. Thank you. So I guess I'll go in the opposite direction. So Mr. Stonina and I are in with the building. So I don't have many issues. I agree with everything that Mr. Stonina said. I agree with the idea that no one approaches City Hall from very few people approach City Hall straight on From I guess more of a ceremony approach. It's mostly approached as a citizen I am only come from it from the Easter the West depending on which way I'm walking and where I'm coming from but I typically With say if those corners could be open that would be a better design and layout for the everyday users of the city. I understand the formality of having the formal interest, the formality of coming up the center stair. I mean I like the idea of that too but I think the everyday use and moving the elevator stair to another location would be nice. I'm going to jump over to primarily the 1960s. Well, I'll go with the fifth floor. I would like more detail on the fifth floor. I mean, right now it's just a mass, and it's conceptual, but just, it's kind of hard to tell really what's going on and what you're kind of proposed there. And I'm gonna go kind of like bits and pieces of the 1960s. The entry piece just doesn't work. I agree with Mr. Adams on this one. I think we should tie into the 60 style this year, but it needs to be something more formal, more elegant. I think it might even want to be taller, and it feels like an entrance. What I see right now doesn't really feel like an entrance for this building. It feels like a tack on entrance and not really working. The arcade space, the glass below, I think it would be nice if there was some kind of rhythm to the glass. I mean, I kind of pulled the lines down on my screen and I see that you line your millions up with that. But I kind of grew, Mr. Hadams, if this was a retail space, I would say sure, or let's take the class all the way down to the floor. But it's going to be conference rooms or office spaces, I assume. And so most people are going to either pull their blinds, have blinds, or they really don't want people. They don't want to look like they're living in a fish, or working in a fishbowl, because everybody can see them when they're working, especially on the ground floor. I mean, if you only help a floor, I don't think people care that much about on the ground floor. It's kind of, I think only architects are the only ones who like people looking into their space while they're working. It's not a good thing. We can't help ourselves. I'm gonna to talk about the hyphens. I think the idea of the hyphen are like, but I don't think they're successfully done yet. I think some of the relationships, when I kind of look at pulling the lines across and what it's relating to and how it relates. And it just doesn't feel like it's being done baking yet. So I think it just needs some refinement. And I'm not saying I'm 100% sold on it, but I'm not sold on the idea of having them. I just need to be refined more. And the glass railing, that's a no-go for me personally. I'm not sure if it's going to be a good idea to do that. I'm not sure if it's going to be a good idea to do that. I'm not sure if it's going to be a good idea to do that. I'm not sure if it's going to be a good idea to do that. I'm not sure if it's going to be a good idea to do that. I'm not sure if it's going to be a good idea to do that. with this, I mean, I've seen it done. I just don't know if it works for our city hall. Personally, I just think if we're gonna do a railing kind of thing and it needs to be something in keeping with the style of the building. And I also wanted to ask what's going on with the terracotta coins and accents. That's just kind of a new element that I see noted on the drawing. Okay, how was it about to the end? Okay, yeah, because I don't, I don't, my thought is just, just reading the notes, I don't understand how that relates. I know terracotta can be used in replacement of bricks some time, but I don't see that fitting in with this building at all. It's just my take on it. You can respond now if you want, or you can wait. It's up to you. We're not trying to make you wait if you don't want to. I've been taking notes. OK. We would like to respond maybe in a comprehensive way. Sure. At the end. OK. Mr. Lyons? Yeah, thank you. And thank you for this for the public speakers and also for your presentation. I've lived here all my life. I've never been far from Market Square, which I think I've always called it Market Square. I have to clarify that it's also City Hall, but it's just known to me as Market Square. And I have a little bit different perspective because I do always approach it from the King's Street side because I live on South Fairfax. So that's just something that I noticed. So I like the, I know there are a few things you'd put up there about that you want to feedback on. And I'm not an architect, so I'm giving you this from just my overall opinion of things. And that is, overall I think it looks great, you know, it's a good job and there's a lot more work probably to be done and you've already done a lot work. But, but I do like the making the entrance from the King Street side more prominent. The only caveat I would put to that is that I was just having the buses drop people off elsewhere because I think if you're gonna invest in that and do that and then you're still gonna have bus is stopping front there then I probably say scale back some but and I know that's not in our purview, but that's just my opinion. But I do like how you've taken so many different versions in history and blended them together. And again, I know this is at the final time, we'll probably see things. But, and then also I do like getting rid of the sites the roof. You know I don't think I really notice them. You know, I've lived through all my life. But as you said, I think that you start to just block them out. But I think it would be nice to have those clear sidelines on the roof. So those are my little comments. Thank you. Ms. Miller, did you want to add anything? I did. And thank you for letting me talk to you. Thank you. Thank you. Ms. Miller, did you want to add anything? I did and thank you for letting me have a truncated opportunity. So, first one, as I too have lived here a long time, 40 some years, and I wanted to give you some perspective on what it looks like from the rooftops on Prince street if If you if you look not just the rooftops, but if you live in the second or third floors, if you've been in looked in the second third floors of homes on Prince Street, you look out of the windows and you see the old you see the tower and you see the architecture from 1871, which is very interesting. When I first saw it, I wasn't quite sure what it was because I've always entered the city hall from the south side because I live on the south side. I've entered the north side on occasion because I vote in this building and many functions here. And so then I go around to that side to get in. But from the south side, you can see much of the architecture from higher views of the existing building. So it's very interesting to see. And I've always felt that I'm coming in the back of this building from the south side, not the front, not the entrance. So I think this is an opportunity, as my colleagues have said, to make this an entrance. And I think it's a challenge for you all to blend. This building is incongruous. Each side is different, I guess, see, east and the west, or a little more similar to one another, but the north and the south are very different. So I think it's a challenge to you to figure that out. But for me, the south side needs much more importance in terms of an entrance and a nod to the market and all the uses that the plaza gets. So far, I think you've done a good job with that. All right, that all said, Let me see if I have anything else to tell you. I think my colleagues have really given you very good guidance on all of this. Ms. Rothrax, at least, is more and maybe give it a greater level of integrity, bringing some of the more, well, I don't know how you'll do it, but you're the architect. So, but just giving it a greater level of integrity on the south side of this building, because to so many people in the city, the south side of the building is the entrance to the building, but it hasn't really been designed that way in the 1960s. So at this point, those are all my comments. I look forward to having you come back. Thank you. Thanks, Ms. Miller. Mr. Adams, I think you had something else to say. I wanted to add something I forgot to mention when I was speaking about the landscape plan for the blaza. Is the vice chair mentioned, I think a more traditional form just kind of fits this environment. It's beautiful if we were in Santa Fe, with the curves and so forth. And I think the ideas or things are in the right places, but maybe just as a nod to the kind of a tourist see here and the way they were different from if we were architects working somewhere else, we wouldn't be saying these things. What's the name of the plaza where the Willard Hotel is, where they have any avenues to go through there, and they have a map of what she did in the painting pattern. I forget the name, momentarily, but freedom. Plata, thank you. I just think the textures and the stuff, I'm sure this is a beginning, but it looked a little freeform for this environment. Thank you. All right. I'll make some comments, and then we'll give you an opportunity to respond. But for everybody on the board, we can talk as much as we want tonight, and everyone has as many chances as you want. So I'm not going to cut anyone off. I think, first of all, thank you for your presentation. It was extremely detailed, and the historical references were very much appreciated. And I really appreciate all of the restoration work you're going to do on the 1871 building. It looks fantastic. I. and I really appreciate all of the restoration work you're gonna do on the 1871 building. It looks fantastic. I am maybe more torn on the modifications to the 1961 building than my colleagues. My preference would be for the city to tear that whole building down and then just have a u-shaped city hall with a larger plaza and then find a city hall annex nearby. And then you can put a rooftop deck and make it a new vernacular. I think that would be the best. I know we probably can't do that. So I'm not asking you to do that. My second preference would be to probably just like completely redesign the facade of the 1861 building, maybe to look more like the, sorry, the 1961 building, to look more like the 1871 building, so it's more cohesive, because I do think, I mean, I totally agree with Mr. Adams. I think there's a time and place for historical architecture. And the problem with the 1961 building is that it just is not well-represented of Alexandria or its history or its architectural styles. It was just sort of plopped in and it doesn't complement the historical building as well as it could. Even if you were to design it in a historical style, you could do it something like the 1871-73 building. All of those things, realizing none of those are really reconsideration, I think my colleagues have made good points that you may want to make modifications that are consistent with the style of the 1961 colonial revival. You know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, the 1961 colonial revival. You know, I used to live in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and there's this fantastic building on the Harvard campus. It's the Harvard Art Museum, and there's an addition that was designed by Renzo Piano, and it's really beautiful. I do think one of the reasons why that works so well is because you have a clear delineation on one side is this beautiful new addition in a modern style. And on the other side, you have this colonial revival style. I think what we have here is infiltrations of the 1961 building with a few modern elements. And I think having barring the ability to put a spaceship in the middle in lieu of what's there, I think it's going to be hard to do small interventions of a third style because we already have two styles. I will say though, you might have an opportunity to do that on the fifth floor, right? Even if you can't see it very much for the street, I can imagine as a citizen of Alexandria going up to the fifth floor and seeing something quite different up there than you see from the street or from the, so I think there might be an opportunity to do sort of like a dramatically different style on the fifth floor. But in terms of the other ones, I just, I, I agree with my colleagues given the world of limited resources that we live in. That that's probably the best option. I really like the market square design. I will say my only comment is that I think the trees near the building are these, I mean, I view this more as a plaza than a park. And it is used successfully as a plaza now. And the only thing I ever hear from anyone is that the fountain is too big and it restricts too much movement. So I love the idea of this like integrated fountain that is flush with the ground and you can turn it off and you could use it as a part of the market on Saturday and then you could turn it back on again. But just putting in a lot of landscaping seems unnecessarily intrusive. I really agree with Ms. Del Nino's comments about maybe just having trees on the perimeter and really letting it be more of a plaza than a sort of hybrid park and plaza. So those are all my comments. And I would love for you guys to tell us your responses. You can also respond about the tilting tower. I think that would, I definitely wanted to get that on record. You may not know about it, but yeah. Here we go. I wanted to start with the tower. It's less a comment more clarification. When I read that, it's the power of the decimal. When I read that report, first I saw seven degrees and I went, man, I'm glad I exercised and have a strong heart. If it were indeed seven degrees, there would be no talk about the leaning tower of pizza. Yours would lean more than the leaning tower of pizza. You would be a world destination. It leads 0.7. It's a typo. It's just something they didn't pick up in the report. So it's seven degrees and 0.7. It's nothing, right? I mean, the exterior of the building probably leans that much too. So, but you would have a world attraction if it were. And then I'll see to area. OK, first of all, thank you for all the thoughtful comments. It is exceptionally helpful in this process of time. We understand the sensitivity and all input is more than welcome because when we're all set and done, we'll create a layer that will stand the test of time until the next intervention. So together with your input, with the input of the community, we'll create something that stands the test of time. It's functional, it reflects the needs of the community, the city, and also those that work in the building. So I would like to start with the plaza in reverse in moving. The rendering, the only photorealistic one that we have included actually correctly shows the height of what a fifth floor can be. The building would like to stay for the record. The building has a fifth floor. It needs to have a fifth floor because a building of 21st and 20th century needs to have stairs and elevators that actually take us to the roof level. Currently, the elevator is so close in proximity to the actual dome that it is always viewed with the dome and it's a significant overrun and it's only one cap we need to have more elevators and what we have done is with the use of current technology, machine-roomless elevators, where actually significantly lowering the height. And are placing the elevators further away from these elements that are close to the sensitive historic building, because any excavation or any intervention in close proximity will affect the structural integrity of a very fragile historic asset. So we're trying to be super sensitive to the pragmatics of that point. So yes, I do agree with your observation, and it's our intent to share the regularity and the simplicity and streamlining of the fifth floor rather than showing you aesthetic or develop design solutions. So what are intent is, from a conceptual standpoint, is to blend and not to make an attraction or anything that catches the eye. It needs to be something that looks like it's a blend of the existing crew structure, especially from the south side. And something that will be hit by the light in a different way. So no matter what, it will dissipate. And we will be more than happy to share views. And thank you, Ms. Miller, for the comment of viewing from different heights. It's truly important. And we will be more than happy to share those details. We just wanted, you can imagine how much material we wanted to share. to give you a general impression so you can get a comprehensive view of what are approaches and then we'll share as many details and close-up views. Luckily we have the digital tools these days so we truly study from day one in three-dimensional expression because the building was scanned. All the layers were recorded, including all the variations and studies that we have. So we can view at any standpoint, from any viewpoint. So we all get the level of comfort that we're doing the right thing for City Hall. With that, I would like to also mention that the views that were included from different viewpoints, that are the whites and whites, the monochromatics from Cameron Street, at street level, at street level, I level street level. They do reflect the massing of the proposed fifth floor. So from a street level, you don't really see those. So these are correct renditions. What the massing maximum height will be relative to what the current height of these objects of the elevators, the stairs overrun, and everything else is. But again, we're in the very initial stages of studying the interventions to the fifth floor that currently exists. The building needs to have that fifth floor. We are proposing that the actual mass is as further away from the South facade to allow for a terrace of viewing opportunity because you have tours. You have students. You have visitors from all over the world. I first visited Alexandria City Hall as a tourist. And I cannot believe that here I am as an architect being professionally engaged with this process and that was some 40 plus years ago So I do believe that Together will achieve the right Solution for what the fifth floor is and how it can benefit the city I would like to also comment a respond to your observations about the stairs and how they are treated and the actual two hyphons, the two highlights that can provide a differentiation between the 1960s edition and the original building. There is a need to actually solve to something that is not quite acceptable, to create the 1960s edition and the exterior of each one of the stairs hits the historic facade. There is something quite precious to be able to actually uncover, to partially cover windows and make that to be part of the expression. When it comes to what the building can develop in that area will be, whether it's more the shadow expression, since that segment of the facade is pushed back, or there are more openings, I will tell you the reasoning quite glass was proposed. We're looking at the 21st century building, so we're designing also for the folks that are here in this building every single day. We try to encourage people to use stairs. Can you imagine the wonderful moment of entering the stair? And the only thing that you see is you're visually connected to market square. There is something quite precious. Glass facade or glass element deeper into the shadow will not reflect the light on the south side in a way that we might be concerning. However, we will be more than happy to provide different studies of daylight during different time of the day. In a way, there is something very abstract of glass. It reflects everything around it, so it will reflect the break and it will disappear. But I will take this to task and I will provide the studies as well as a different type of administration. But the front building envelope of each one of these stairs really needs to push back and give the glory of the two story windows that are remarkable in their expression and their scale back to the way the regional building is and what you'll be able to experience in our further discussion is to see how the, what used to be an exterior facade is actually the bounding element of everything that happens on the inside and will be uncovered almost in an archeological way to be able to express how all the contemporary and new infusions of space exist within what the character of the original building was. So we can discover it on the inside and the outside. I would like to spend just a few minutes explaining the notion of what I described as the venues or the two spaces that are flanking the main entry and into the arcades. We have a functional opportunity to be able to open these spaces with operable windows systems that exist. They don't have to be contemporary in expression. What this is suggesting is that we can open segments of that facade on weekends when the market operates and in addition to those that sell flowers and the arcades, we can actually have artists in the spaces that can have the art classes. Instead of on the stage that has been there for about 30 years is a temporary condition. We actually have a viable space that can be used. I fully respect the common of fenestration and being more in alignment and harmony with the existing style, These type of enclosures that go all the way down to the ground can be designed to look historically reverent to the context and still have the operational ability to open up and truly be that part of the plaza. In terms of functionality of these spaces, nobody will be sitting in a fishbowl and having the uncomfortable feeling that they're being observed at all times. The idea is that these will be meeting spaces and spaces for engagement with the community. So in a way, you have a sense of openness. You come into city hall and you don't feel like you have to find your way how exactly to get in and where the spaces are and where you find it. You can see activity. You can see people working for the city and for the community. So that's the intent of these spaces. So that's how they're intended to operate and I would like to respond to the terracotta comment. The center segment of the building was never properly proportioned. If two vertical elements had the edges of a truly classical approach to building are introduced, we'll be matching the original architecture and approach because usually building corners are held by quants. So this can be a contemporary version. With a notion of idea that maybe we introduced a third style which I understand might be in conflict, but that was the idea. If we are to have more contemporary infusions, the addition of these elements that will strengthen existing 1960 building can be interpreted with a contemporary material that is torn on top and has different proportions. So coming up close, you will see that it's a different material. However, you'll be able to differentiate that is done at a time of when this intervention has occurred. So that is the rationale. In terms of how contemporary and how we stay with the architecture of the 1960s, as a European, I can tell you, I'm perfectly comfortable growing up and living in an environment where you go from Greek ruins to Roman ruins and you have very contemporary glass additions to Mancara D'Rouves in Paris on any other city. And in certain places where playfulness is of a target, at that point more more playful elements are introduced because the market square has different vibe on the weekend compared to the formality of French Palace or a museum that needs to retain that character. So that's why we suggested well let's bring something that is a little bit more radical and see what you think about that. So that's why it was a point of departure. I take it hard, your comments about the entry and we'll continue the study. It is a very difficult puzzle to go back to a style where the origination of the infield architecture was not very successful, so how can we remedy that? So our initial approach is creating an entry that is transparent and visible from the market alley or the memory of it rather than still looking for an entry with just a little canopy and using the over-scaled window openings which is currently there is the segment one, which is the balcony that exists and creating that cadence of the bright proportional element in the middle within large openings and relying on a canopy. So we'll take more studies and we'll continue forward into that path. Yeah, Mr. Chairman, really appreciate the board's time tonight. I know you've contributed significant effort to take a look at the material tonight to appreciate the design team's effort. We've been through a number of different iterations on this facade. This is sort of one of the presentations in design concepts. Had more intrusion to it. And from a cost standpoint, we start to have to reconstruct the entire facade and re-support and do a lot of other intrusions with it. And so the team is trying to balance the how do we treat it appropriately, creating that presence and entrance without having to redo the entire 60th facade. That's where it gets down to. Because otherwise you have to put up supports to support the whole thing while you do the intrusions. And so our design team will try to take that back while the cost is not your per view. It is mine. And I also have to respond to council and make sure everything. And so trying to find that delicate balance is what this team is trying to do with it. And so I know there's more information to come back to you and appreciate your significant investment in time. a really important project as well as the community have spent hours and hours and hours with us providing feed. information to come back to you and appreciate your significant investment in time and this is a really important project as well as the community. I've spent hours and hours and hours with us providing feedback over the last six plus months. So I look forward to coming back. Thank you. Thanks. Does anyone on the board wish to make additional comments or responses? Well we really appreciate your time. I hope our comments weren't too discouraging for you. You've done a beautiful job. And we look forward to seeing it. If you want to show us alternatives, by the way, this does happen in concept reviews a lot, where people will show us option A, option B. That's a lot of work, but it can sometimes be a really helpful way of showing what's going on in your mind, or even showing an option that we're asking for, but doesn't work, you can show us, right? So that's just a thought for the next concept review. We'll be more than happy to do that. We pay it down to be able to do a comprehensive introduction of the project. Yeah, next time you don't have to tell us the history, because now we know it, so thank you. The media. Mr. Conkey, do I have to do anything else? Or can I adjourn? No, I don't have any other... We need to tell us the history because now we know it. So thank you. Mr. Conkey, do I have to do anything else? Or can I adjourn? No, I don't have any other announcements. All right, the meeting is adjourned. Thank you.