Already good afternoon. The time now is 1 o'clock and welcome to the policy committee on infrastructure and assets. This is our 16th session. We are here in the Kilo Chambers with me, my vice chair, council member Kirkowitz, council member Inaba, council chair Kimball, council member Beiegez, council member Evans. Joining us shortly will be Councilmember Kagiwata and Mr. Kaniyally Yikrime-Polder. I am Sue Liloi, your presiding officer. Mr. Click, any statements from the public? Thank you Madam Chair. Just noting that we do not have any testifiers reporting in from any of your remote sites, none here in Heelow. So I believe we do not have any testifiers reporting in from any of your remote sites, none here in Heelow. So I believe we do not have any testifiers here at the beginning of your meeting. Thank you, Mr. Clerk. I'm going to be taking things out of order. We'd like to take up bill 184 first. It is our hope that our police chief muskowicz will be online with us. And if not seeing any objections from my committee members, Mr. Clerk, if you don't mind, could you please read in Bill 184? Thank you, Chair. Do we have any testifiers for Bill 184? Hearing none, Bill 184, a men's chapter 22, article two and article three of the Hawaii County Code, 1983. 2016 edition has amended relating to the use of county streets and establishes a special activity permit for commercial activities. Establishes a process to obtain a special permit and regulations to conduct temporary commercial activity on a county street and increases free fees from $25 to $50 for any permit issued for the lossful use of county streets introduced by council members Enabla and council member Kirkwoods. Note there's a motion by council member Enabla seconded by council member Viegas to recommend passage of bill 184 on first reading. Thank you Mr. Mr. Enabla would you like to meet the discussion? Sure, thank you chair. This bill as a reminder, bill 184 creates a permitting process to allow for selling and bending in county streets. County streets being any right of way owned and maintained by the county to include the sidewalks and shoulders. Currently, this isn't allowed. We do have Director Pousie here, but joining us via Zoom, Chief of Police, Chief Mosquitos, are you there? This is Deputy Chief Mahuna. I'm here for Chief Mosquitos. Oh, thank you, Deputy Mahuna. Just wanted to give the opportunity at the first hearing of in committee. They wanted to get a someone out of the police department so wanted to afford you folks that opportunity. We have no issues with this bill. We look it over and we don't have any substantive issues with the bill. Perfect. Council member Kirkowitz and I will circle back. But before we let you go, I would open it up to my colleagues to ask any questions of the deputy chief while he's online with us if there aren't any. Go ahead, Miss Evans. Yes. My understanding, I won't name names, but some specific police officers have mentioned it's very hard to enforce with the current code as written. Have you received from your rank and file any complaints about the ability of force, kind of these, especially for me, the food trucks that get parked on the side of the road. I haven't received any feedback regarding difficulty of enforcement, you know, for food trucks and whatnot. I haven't heard anything like that. Do you have any idea how many you issue a month? Psychitations? Yes. I would think that there are very few. I couldn't say I would have to get you that number but I don't believe that it's a substantial amount. Is it something that you, do you track? I mean, I don't know enough. It used to be in the old days, everything was by report and it was handwritten now that I know you've computerized everything. Do you actually have specifics that could show you these type of citations? I could get that number. It would be in our records management system. That number could be provided. Okay, please do. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Evans. I'd like to reflect that Ms. Kagiwada and Mr. Kaniyally Kleinfelder has joined us here at 105. Anyone else questions for Mr. Mahuna? Ms. Kimbo, go ahead. Yes, thank you. My question pertains to the criteria for selecting areas where this will be a permitted activity. And I'm just my concern when this was originally brought to committee was that the police have an opportunity to weigh in on the safety of the area. For example, the size of the shoulder and room for parking and people to pull off. And so I don't see that there's an amendment before us that includes that, but I'm at section 22-2.5 any permitted commercial activity should not impede or inconvenience the public or any person in lawful use of the county street so we took that to mean that you know I don't see the call out to safety, right? That's really my concern here is, you know, there are areas where it might be, depending on the traffic flow, for example, and the speed that on average people are moving down a particular roadway, is there enough length of open space on the shoulder for them to pull over, slow down, and stop? So I think that that is kind of different from the language of MPE or inconvenience. It has more of a direct call out to the safety in terms of motor vehicle operation in the area that's being identified. We would have no objection to a provision in there that allows for safety review before permits are being issued. Thank you. Chair, if I may have a lot of to address. Councilmember. Sure. Go ahead, Ms. Kushner. One of the things that Councilmember, you know, and I would like for this body to explore is the identification of county roadways that we will allow this sort of permitted activity. And we suggest that because members of the public and public works and police may each have different ideas of what constitutes a safe space. And I also want to prevent anybody from suggesting a roadway that is actually not within the county's jurisdiction. I can imagine a lot of folks are going to actually propose state highways and to have to deny their application for that reason. I think a lot of the confusion could be cleared if we just identify per district around the island what wrote County Roadways are most conducive for these activities. So it would love your thoughts on that proposal. This can boil any problem. We'll get double thumbs up. I think that's a similar strategy to other things we've been looking at, whether it's the behavior destination areas, the bike paths, or whatever to rather to set up that creature you're for identifying specific areas. I like that idea a lot and I think that addresses some of my concerns about safety with respect to some of these areas. So appreciate that. All right. Anyone else? Ms. Kagiwata. Thank you, Chair. I'm just wondering, do we have any criteria in here about how extensive these operations can be or is that just left up to whoever's trying to get the permit? And the reason I asked that is because we have had people, and I think it was mentioned, I don't remember, by who last time talking about how our brick and mortar businesses pay a lot, do a lot for their brick and mortar businesses. And this is kind of a way for people, I think it's seen for you know very small operations or you know something You know very specific maybe one item or something that people are selling fish that they got whatever Which shouldn't really be in direct competition with our Brick and mortar businesses, but if there's nothing kind of capping it or looking at what the upper limit is, what they can be selling or how much or how involved it can be, I'm just wondering do we run the risk of people wanting to do this instead of brick and mortar and, you know, kind of really more legitimate, almost full-time business or something going this way. So I'm just wondering, do we have anything or have we thought about that aspect of it? Or do we think that that will just work its way out due to the nature of the permitting. Thanks Miss Kaguya for that question. We're hoping to have questions around Chief Mahunas. He's going to step away if you want to put a pin the bill as it relates to the police department and its enforcement of it, I'd love to hear that now, but if not we can pick that question up later. Oh wait, Bill, he's sorry about that. Perfect. I see Ms. Evans late again. Okay, so I'm looking at the types of permits section 4, section 22, dash 3.1, the definition of special activity permits. Have you, my chance, looked at that? And the reason I'm saying that is I've seen, recently I saw someone pull her car off the road, pop open her trunk, put out a table and said she was having a rummage sale. I also saw some people selling lemonade at a lemonade stand and it looked like, here's a thing, I think one of the challenges for you is you can only regulate if it's in the county right of way. So how would you know if that person is within that 20 or 30 foot right away? Maybe they're actually a little beyond that. How would your officer be able to discern that? Well, sometimes it's very difficult to know if there's um, you know, I mean we're not able to survey the area. So I mean if it's close it would be difficult to know but you know most times we use our best judgment, uh, annoying what is the cognitive right of way and and not. I mean if it's if it's close then there might be some question and if there's a question you know we don't issue the citation we do more research until such time as we can determine exactly who owns the property or what the property right away is. So sometimes it is difficult to determine and if that's the case then we err on the side of caution and you know we don't issue or take enforcement action until we can get the information and know for sure. Because I wanted to follow up on Chair Kimbell's question. If let's say they pulled off, they're not in the gravel area or shoulder, it looks like they just moved off on the private sector and they popped a trunk, but they create an unsafe condition because all of a sudden it's kind of like when people do garage sales, right? They drive by and go, oh, I gotta go see what's there and they start pulling off. They create what I think she was getting to an unsafe condition. So at that point, not that they're in the right away, can you shut them down? Can you cite them for creating an unsafe situation on the road? I think it would depend. It would be kind of specific to the given situation. But we can take enforcement action if there is a danger. And I think we can probably work with public works to determine, you know, what areas are safe and what areas are not. And if there are unforeseen circumstances where an area that was deemed to be safe is all of a sudden not, because we couldn't anticipate, you know, how many people would pull over or the amount of customers a particular vendor could attract. We can always look at that given situation and address it individually. Thank you, Chair. I really thank you, Ms. Evans. Anyone else questions for Mr. Mahuna as a relates to the police department and enforcement. All right, seeing none. Mr. Mahuna, thanks so much for being here. We're going to continue our conversation with the makers, but I also know DPW is in the chambers here listening to a lot of the questions. And Mr. Inaba trusting that if you have any follow up go ahead. Thank you. Thank you again Deputy Mahuna. They are on a at a conference on Kauai so to appreciate the time joining us from there. Circling back to the conversation and Director Pazi, if you want to, do you have anything to add at this point in the conversation before we kind of unravel the suggestions we've made and have begun to discuss? Green Dot. Aloha. Steve Housy, Director, Public Works. So I got briefed from Deputy Director Malia on the last meeting. And I also spent a little time with our engineering folks. You're aware that they issue permits for conducting work in the right of way presently publication dispenser sidewalk use work in a county right away for landscaping or trenching driveway work as well as work for private waterline so I would envision this would fall into that same area of Review if you will where an applicant would come in and I don't think we've devised an application form yet. But an applicant would come in and submit through engineering. And I think, as Reid mentioned, we would afford the police department an opportunity to take a look at it. But I think the issues that we're really confronted with here are safety, right? So is it safe to set up where they want to set up? Is there adequate parking? Is there, are we placing pedestrians at risk if they want to come along to the food truck or to the vendor? And then I think the other thing you've captured as well is nuisance, right? We need to make sure they manage their waste. We don't have just trash all over the place. I don't know that we've considered sound nuisance, right? Most of these food trucks and vendors will may have generators running and that whole thing. So I'm confident that we could devise a permit application especially with respect to the exact location and then run that through our engineering on our traffic folks to really take a serious look at what what it's going to do to impede traffic and the flow traffic and make sure that whatever is whatever permissions are granted are going to be able to, the operations are going to be able to be conducted safely. And then lastly, by doing this, I know a while back, it might have been six months ago, the state came out and made an announcement that they were going to be enforcing no vendors in their rights away. And at least over on the side of the island, where I I'm familiar with there's still vendors working in state right away. But I think permitting system like this would likely provide a bit more teeth for the folks that need to enforce. You know, if it's creating an issue, do they have a permit? I guess would be the first thing to ask so but yeah I think a previous version of this you mentioned maybe a designating areas around the county that kind of fell out here but maybe it's back on the table it's probably not a bad idea to take another look at that I guess it's a matter of expediency and how fast you want to try to roll something out. Thank you, Director Pauzi. So with that kind of circling back to conversation from Councilmember Kagiwata currently in the bill there isn't a provision as to a size limit ultimately. We know we're not going to allow somebody to build up a ten city things, do need to be removed. So the intention of the six to six was that things are removed every day. There is no amendment before you today because we are waiting on this discussion as to whether we identify certain places but ultimately it would be the intention to have things be removed and that discretion would ultimately lie with the department when the issue of the permits, not to be allowing overnight type things, but if somebody did want to come in from 12 noon to 7 pm, you know, we were able to allow that leeway. So just kind of to be, to try and figure out this way of which we will identify those safe areas, we are proposing, you know, having DPW review, having police review, but there's different ways to do it, right? We can do it in a schedule as we do in those other sections like the bike tours. We can also consider whether we wanna provide ourselves and the public a little bit more flexibility and if we consider doing it via resolution, similar to how the field taxes, we establish it by resolution, it stands until a new resolution has passed either changes or adds to it. So I just want to hear from you folks. I always like a little bit more flexibility, and especially with this being a new kind of concept that gives us the opportunity to make tweaks as necessary without having to go through so many readings. So to answer your question and Council Member Cogualla, you know, right now no specific size limitation. There was a size limitation in one iteration of this bill, but right now we've really toned it down to be as simple as possible and allow that leeway to live with the department. Thank you, Ms. Tuyenaba, Ms. Kagiwata. Thank you. Thanks for that, Councilwoman Rinawa. I just, yeah, so I guess I'm just checking back that the intent is not to necessarily provide an alternative for like full business scale models here, but really for more of starter businesses or side businesses or, you know, small kind thing. Okay. Thanks. All right. Back on the other question you just asked. I would just, yeah, I'd be interested to know how we may be proactive about this or are we expecting, we want to expect, you know, our communities to come to us and say we would like, you know, you to consider this area or we're going to go out to the community and do some, you know, community meetings where we ask the community for this information or would we simply be like maybe sitting down with DPW folks and saying, you know, we think these places might be good in our districts. What do you think? So I think I would prefer to get the community to come to us or weigh in in some way than me sitting down with DPW and trying to figure out what those might be. But it would be nice if we had a process for that. Thank you. I hope. Thank you, Ms. Caguiwata. Mr. Cunyeli, Kleinfelder, then Ms. Evans. Go ahead, Mr. Cunyeli, Kleinfelder. Thank you, Chair. Mr. Pauze. Thank you for being here. If someone was in a county right away, sidewalk, they didn't have a permit and they had set up a tent. What would we do to them? Well, that's an enforcement issue. So if the phone call came into us and they didn't have a permit, we would likely contact or tell the person who was calling to complain to contact police. And this is with the assumption that Bill would have asked. Yes, because by putting in a permitting system, you provide a level or means to enforce, either have a permit or you don't. But I think someone also brought up the point, which is also valid point, is for the most part, we get phone calls all the time about issues with roads that are actually state roads and not county roads. So that's another point to mention that by doing this on county roads and county right away, is you're not likely going to get the state to follow suit. I think I do, I don't think, I know. We're, we're living in District 5 on the way home. There's a lot of different vendors and it has been over the years. Some safely set up, some not most being on either highway 11 or highway 130. Both state highways. My big challenge is not that they're selling stuff on the side of that or highway of 30, both state highways. My big challenge is not that they're selling stuff on the side of the road. My big challenge is when people stop their car in the middle of the road to make an immediate left-hand turn with no warning whether it's no ability for anyone to recognize why they're turning because it's a normal flow, turning into a random stop specifically by our visitors. That's where we have a dangerous situation. Evolve really rapidly, that is bug me. So if this becomes a way for us to tackle that great, I am recognizing it's a different jurisdiction, but we do enforce laws on state and county roads and private roads via our existing county laws. So I'm not sure how that ties in. That's what I'd like to see represented in the application is how the traffic flow around their specific activity may put other drivers or pedestrians at risk. That'd be my big ask of the department. And it may not be in this specifically. And I'm asking the previous question was more, we have a lot of folks in our rights of way and most of them being homeless. And if this bill becomes a methodology of approaching our homeless folks because they do or don't have a permit, and I'm wondering if there's a tie-in within your department, if you review that. I would say at this point, it's not something we've considered. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you Thank you. Ayo, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Conelli. Can I fill their misevents? Yeah. I like the idea of looking at areas that we might designate. But with the department consider if we designate the areas lowering the speed limit to 25 miles an hour or something in that area if we end up designated it. Because I agree that people start seeing something all of a sudden it's like a knee-jerk reaction. And it is a distraction, I guess, is the best way, like school children coming out you know after school. So I've just put it out there. This might be worthy of a speed limit discussion too if we designate these areas. So I think your question is would we consider it and I'd say yes at this point we would have to consider that based on the designation and you know if we're specifically calling out areas that we would want these things to sell. The other thing that strikes me is, I have a lot of food trucks up in Miami. And one of the things is, it's almost like a farmer's market and that they kind of assume that that spot is their spot. So the other thing is to consider if in fact, these are great designated areas. The question is how do you manage it? So someone, again, look at our county farmers market and maybe how we regulate someone who feels maybe they have a right to that spot and they hold it for years and then maybe without. Anyway, you know what I'm saying? Priority setting and who gives the spot. I suspect that eventually will be a problem. I would think that we could put that into the permit. I'm thinking out loud, the food trucks in Hawaii may have for the most part are all on private property. I don't. You know, the food truck night over at Parker and church row and those sorts of things, I don't specifically recall whether there's issues with. Well, part of it is because people have been complaining, but before that, they were pulling off and people were parking in our parks and people were parking in the right away to get to those food trucks that were parked on private land. I mean, again, what we're talking about, they were pulled off enough so they were not in the county road, but people were parking in the county road into our county park area. Yeah. Right, and we still have in the county road into our county park area. Yeah. Right, and we still have in the code that you're familiar with this because of Opello that cars cannot legally park on the pavement for the road. So yeah, there's a lot of things that would come into play. Again, I would hope that we would consider all of that when we decide whether or not in areas appropriate for a vendor to get a permit. Okay, thank you. And to the makers of the bill, I was looking at language in section seven, section six, and then your section five, and for consistency, in section six and seven, they talk about an agreement to demnify, defend, and hold harmless, the county will be executed to the satisfaction, a corporation council, and then up in section five, you get a little more specific language that is different from the other two sections. And I don't know if you want it to read the same or not. And I guess the last question is you have chosen $1 million for public liability insurance. And I'm just wondering. And that's for Corporation Council. Have we come up with that's kind of our norm now, a million? OK. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Evans. Ms. V.A. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Yeah, really interesting conversation and discussions and what just comes to mind to me is really wanting to remind not only the vendors but the community that here you have council members coming up with legislation to allow for small business to operate in otherwise public spaces. So some of that responsibility then also falls to these businesses to talk to their customers and clientele. Those of us who've done any sign waving in the last six months, there's a responsibility to us to make sure that the people that are on the side of the road with us are behaving responsibly. So this would be my ask is the recognition from community for their responsibility and for the opportunity and to ensure that you drive safely and you take those precautions so that opportunities like this can be made available in public spaces and side of the roads. You know, the state has had other perspectives on it, but I appreciate the maker's creativity in putting this together. And I think that identifying the areas is going to be really important just to reduce confusion and also just want to encourage our community and our small business people who would be on the side of the roads to operate with a loha and leave that sense of entitlement at home and that paying it forward, you know, it comes back around with sharing those spaces with one another. So just as we sit here trying to create policy to ensure health and safety and provide for these rights and opportunities, I just appreciate our community taking the responsibility as well to, we don't want to have to legislate every little detail. So with all of us taking the responsibility of recognizing the opportunity and embracing it with gratitude, we can together ensure the health and safety of our community and the opportunities for this kind of economic vitality even in our county road spaces. So I yield. Thank you Miss Villegas, anyone else? Mr. Inaba. Just wanting to maybe get consensus from the group that if legally permissible, we'd go with the resolution route to provide reflectability, both adding and removing areas. If you folks were in mind chiming and there, rather than having it set in the code and making it more difficult that way. Miss, thank you, Mr. Inaba. Miss Kimball. Yeah, thank you for providing the opportunity to win. And my preference would be a schedule within the code, and I do realize that results in an extra reading, but I think just for ease of use from the consumer side, having it available in the schedule is my preference. I would also add just since I've got the mic again, I do think that we want to limit the areas that are able to be designated as appropriate for this based on this speed limit. I would say 35 at the very high end but 25 preferably but I defer to smarter people than me. Thank you, Director Pousie, for the look. I yield cheer. All right, Ms. Campbell, the maker is asking for guidance whether the body is leaning towards results or towards, you know, within the code, any more feedback, Ms. Evans. I think that I think the schedule is a really good idea. But it might it might depend on the kind of commercial activity. Because I'm a little still in my mind, I'm thinking, what does that really mean if someone pulls off with a trunk and pops up and throws out a table and they're selling light? You know, a homeless person, let's say, or somebody's trying to get some extra money and they pull off the road. And we tell well you should go until the counting and get some permit or whatever that Again, like maybe a little bit more discernment on what we mean by commercial activity I know just some thoughts because I can see where you would schedule stuff, but I also see where I Don't know. I just see some stuff going on and I can understand why they pulled off the road and they're trying to sell where is out of the trunk so they can make money, right? Would that make commercial activity? So maybe a little more thought about that maybe would help. Thank you. All right. Thanks, Miss Evans. Anyone else? Any other suggestions, thoughts? Mr. Conelli, Klein-Bauder. Thank you. I actually like Ms. Evans' idea that you could break this into two pieces. Simple things. Lemonade stands. I don't want to give you no leads about what we're specifying. But simple things could be done via resolution, but longstanding items that are going to be present in the community large farmers markets things like that could be via council schedule in our council which requires more readings and more public input too so I like that idea thank you thank you mr. Coney Ali Kleinfelder mr. Imabba chair do you have anything and we're we're gonna postpone but. Perfect. Thank you for that guidance. Yes. I could go either way, whether in the ordinance or within a resolution, my only question would be to a co-operation council. And you can bet this with them is how much enforcement would be provided through a resolution for police department in this kind of situation. I think my colleagues everyone has mentioned safety, you know, everything that I was thinking through where it was in relationship to a farmer's market, other commercial activities. I do like the idea in inviting maybe parks into this conversation because if it's right next to a park on the way, I mean, why not just have them go get a park vending permit and go be a vendor in the park? I think that led me into if the nearest commercial activity and or zoning and or park was more than 10 miles away that might lend itself to a space in our rural communities that might be able to kind of tackle this commercial activity. And I think finally as you guys put your heads together for the maker and then the Department of Public Works. I think understanding the timeline, I know director Poussy, you mentioned that the state would be enforcing no vending within the state right of ways. I think coupled with that is this piece and if you had timeline, I know they stated it. But, you know, I think it always starts with a shot across the bow, right? And so I just want to be clear, unless you have some guidance as to if they've issued any directives, direct opposing? No, I'm not aware of it. I just, when I have my, every other week conversations with District Engineer Takuyoi, he I'm not aware of it. I just, when I have my, every other week, conversations with District Engineer Takuyoi, he continues to indicate that it's a source of frustration that there are vendors out there just heading up Pwanico, right? Boiled peanuts and fish and Mausadas on the other side of the island that continue to event in state right of ways and he's expressed frustration to me from time to time that about enforcement so I don't know if that picture is going to change. Okay great and then finally to both the makers I know oftentimes signage helps with their enforcement and in this way you know I don't know through the permitting process there's any signage that's required whether it's on the side of the road you know whatever that might look like those are my thoughts to the maker but I understand you guys are going to put your heads together for a little bit longer and if there are no other comments, Mr. Inaba. Yes, thank you. And I just want to clarify when we're talking about schedules, we're talking about permitted locations, not permitted goods that we were going to allow them to sell or not sell. same page there and the previous comments from the last hearing regarding things like what is it the signs, especially permitted those things are all still noted and we will include that in the amendment in a couple weeks. In the meantime, if you folks would all consider thinking about those streets in your districts that Would likely be a good place for this type of activity So if we do proceed we can try and get things rolling in a and a quickly yet safe manner through review So with that I'll make a motion to postpone bill 184 to the September 16th committee meeting. Mr. Clerk, there's been a motion to postpone bill 184 to the September 16th committee meeting, a motion by Mr. Inaba, a second by Ms. Kerco-Witz. Anyone discussion on the postponement? Seeing all those in favor of postponing Bill 184, please say aye. Contrary to the reminded, Mr. Clerk, we have 8 eyes with miscalumma acts and excuse. All right, onto the other item, Mr. Clerk. Do we have any testimony for Bill 165? Hearing none, Bill 165, a men's chapter 24 article 10 of the Hawaii County Code of 1983, 2016 addition as amended relating to parking. Change the county building parking lot located at 25 Alpuny Street in Heavill from a 2-hour meter parking zone to a 2-hour parking area. Introduced by Councilmember Evans, note there is a motion on the floor by Councilmember Kimball, seconded by Councilmember Carcobutz to recommend passage of Bill 165 on first reading. Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Miss Evans, this is your bill and we have an motion. Would you like to leave the discussion? I have an amendment to offer. Go ahead. Okay. I move to amend bill number 165 with the content of communication number 884-2. All right. Thank you, Ms. Evans. There's a motion to amend bill 165 with the contents of communication 885.2 by Ms Evans. Oh, sorry. 0.4 by Ms Evans. A second by Mr. Inaba. Does everybody have the amendment? I'm so sorry. There's been a motion to amend Bill 165 with the contents of communication 884.2 by Miss Evans a second by mr. Inaba Miss Evans on the amendment. Thank you Basically, I'm just amending the effective date. I spoke to Director Pazze that if this bill passes I believe this would give the department time to put together their plan on making it effective on January 1st, 2025. They would have to obviously make some decisions and decide how they would make this effective. And so ask for your favorable support. Thank you, Ms. Evans. Anyone else on the amendment? Ms. Kagiwata. On the amendment, I'm supportive of the amendment. You can go from there. Thanks. Perfect. Anyone else on the amendment? All right. Seeing that Ms. Evans, any more amendment? All right, seeing that Ms. Evans anymore comment? All right, we have a motion on the floor to amend bill 165 with the contents of communication 8884.2 all those in favor. Please say aye. Contrary minded Mr. Clerk, we have eight eyes with Miss Glemba absent excuse to the main motion. Thank you. Thank you. Again, I'm asking for your favorable support for this. I heard a lot of comments. And then the reason it kept getting extended part of it is just not having the ability of Dr. Pazi and I to have the discussion in place. We had to really determine what we had for parking meters in Hilo and we do have a parking law downtown. We have across the street some meters but I feel strongly about this building going to the two hour parking limit versus a meter. A couple reasons, but for me this is the people's house. This is where people come to the council. This is where people come to the mayor's office. I feel like it's very friendly and I think because of the location of this building. I don't, if it was in downtown Hilo where all the merchants were, it would be different, but I think it lends itself to be very friendly to our public that comes here to do to do their business with the mayor or the council. I do believe that that, have you looked at the meters in understanding the age of them and and so many of them, I don't know if you've walked out and looked at him but they're really probably If you disagree with me the condition of them are not very good and I was talking to the director this morning that if this passes He will have available to him Possibly some replacement meters for those that are broken and have been identified broken at the lot downtown and the lot across the street. There's already broken meters. So he has replacements. So it's a way, I think I've just passed for your favorable support. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Evans. Mr. Inaba. Thank you. I will continue to remain in support of this bill in other agencies or government buildings, when I have to go to submit an application or anything like that. I have a problem in public has to pay to come to these types of buildings to engage with government. So I'll be in support of this bill. Thank you for introducing it. Thank you, Mr. E. Nowbob, Ms. Cookie, what up? Thank you, Chair, Director Paz. Can I ask you, Chair, Director Paoza. Can I ask you a question, please? Thank you. What is the intention for enforcing the two-hour time limit if this change is made? So we do have a parking attendant here that's based in Hilo and based in our building across the street and there are other locations I believe downtown there's an opportunity to enforce two hour you know I think you've seen it in cities they chop mark the tires and come back to ours later when they have the time to do that so that's really the tires and come back to ours later when they have the time to do that. So that's really the only way I know to enforce it. What we're trying to do is not have people come in park all day. Exactly. So I'm just trying to get at. Do you have the ability to enforce and the two-hour time limit? We have a full-time parking attendant that I would hope would be able to, as they perform their duties now with looking at meters for expiration times that this would just be a different task. Okay. I have that concern too of people parking there all day, especially because there's a lot of people that work in this building that don't have parking spots. And I think they would love to park there if they could. If we don't enforce the two-hour time limit, that I think that sends a very confusing message, or if we enforce it sporadically, I also think that is not great. But if we can enforce it regularly, that seems good. I guess for the public, I saw for instance somebody here earlier who I think was getting changed and going out to put more in their meter after being here for a little while. So that person would have to actually go out and find a new place to park if they were here for over two hours. Is that correct? I guess technically yes. I think there are other ways to work around that. We come to remember evidence and I had a conversation if somebody's here for one of the long protracted hearings that occur from time to time, may perhaps there'd be a way to be able to get a tag or something that would allow them to be longer than two hours. I think that that's something that we could probably work on. But again, I think the intent is, in that the race, revenue as much as it's just to create an environment of fairness. So the two hours is really based on people, I think, have stated come here do your business and be done. So people currently who come here and are testifying and need to be here for longer than the two hours could also, we could also set up a thing where they would get a tag. I would think that would be something that we could do, yeah. Okay. All right. Well, once again, I'm not going to be supporting this. I think it's unnecessary. A lot of work to get very little. And I think there's ways to open our parking up to people are testifying here without opening our parking up to long term parkers. And I hear you have one one full time person who deals with everything else and I just feel like we won't be enforcing, able to enforce even with the best intention. So that's my biggest concern is that we're going to be setting ourselves up to say to do something the county has sometimes done and which I think is not good, which is say, this is what the law or this is what the rules are going to be, and then we don't enforce it. So I have a concern about that, but my understanding is a lot of people do want this, so I probably will be outnumbered here, but I just wanted to say that for the record. Thanks, and thanks for your input, director. Thank you, Ms. Kagiwata. Mr. Kaniyally, thank you. Thank you. This is for the outside corner or the actual whole entire parking lot for this building. It's the entire parking lot. I believe right now there's 50 spaces that are available for the public. I like it. It makes sense. I agree with Councilman Revin and Mr. Inaba that parking for people when they come to participate in government, sometimes because we force them to by legislation and they need to come in and talk about it with us, should be free to them. I think, I actually looked into this a long time ago and there was some concern about opening up the parking because people in the surrounding businesses would abuse the free parking because there is limited parking in Hilo. At this point, in seeing the amount of government sponsored spaces we have in town, in this area right now, I feel comfortable in passing this measure without impacting the community or the businesses or ourselves with unwanted parking. And we do over parking attendance. Mr. Pauzi has alluded to that we do have those attendance still and they will help enforce any laws we put in place. So I like it. I'll say I'll be supporting the measure and thank you for bringing it forward. Thank you, Mr. Cunnelli. Thank you, Mr. Cunnelli. Thank you, Mr. Cunnelli. Thank you, Mr. Cunnelli. Thank you, Mr. Cunnelli. Thank you, Mr. Cunnelli. Thank you, Mr. Cunnelli. Thank you, Mr. Coguata, about enforcement and having concerns there. But it's been what I've seen in almost the six years of coming here at least once a month. The staff that utilize the paid parking or whatnot, they're out there like every two hours and they don't want to be late because the staff that's on it is on it. Either which way, I could just see that that person still having that sense of urgency and they're still being that follow-up whether or not they're looking at a meter or they're looking at a checkmark on a tire or whatever their method of. So I'm going to be supporting this today. I respect and honor your concerns, that is what I'm trying to say. But I am hopeful and fairly confident that the system for enforcement will remain great and the opportunity to provide the people that come to do business in this building and to operate here for whatever purpose that don't get, you know, I'm grateful to, you know, pay for a parking spot every month. But anyway, I'll be supporting this. I hope. Thank you, Miss Villegas. Miss Kimball. Yeah, I want to make a really simple suggestion, which is let's try this, not take the meters out, put those little funny bonnets on them, and leave them in, and if we see a problem, just go ahead and revert this later. I don't think we need to put a sunset on anything, but I would suggest not immediately going to the removal until we've had a chance to see if there are any other unintended consequences. Thank you, Ms. Kimmel. Mr. Posi. Yes, so I agree with that. I think the council member Evans and I discussed we didn't call them bonnets, but I think we call them meter covers. But yes, I agree. I've actually seen them probably back on the mainland at Christmas time for downtown businesses. They put like a little Santa Claus bonnet over the meters per free parking. So we can work something out. I think there's nine council members divided by 55. I think we have a new resource to get more money. If there are no much discussion, thank you Miss Evans for advancing this. I absolutely agree that civic engagement and encouraging civic engagement and participation in government is the cornerstone and making that simple. Just as a side note, and Miss Kirkwitz may remember, we had protracted discussions on a chicken bill and we actually had to break every two hours to remind those testifying to take a pause and go feed the meters. And so I also know people who actually got parking tickets and wrote letters to the courts asking them to wave the fees and fines and the courts did listen and acknowledge that they were here participating in government and so those parking tickets were waived. So I do support this bill for all the reasons why we want to invite people to this house. All right, seeing no more discussion, so we have a motion to forward bill 165 as amended to the council with a favorable recommendation. Roll call vote please. Councilmember Evans. I. Councilmember Glimba. Councilmember Inabbo. Aye. Councilmember Kagiwata? No. Councilmember Kaniylai Kleinfeldr? Aye. Councilmember Kirkwoods? Aye. Councilmember Kimball? Aye. Councilmember Viegis? Aye. Chair Lee Loy? Aye. Chair, the motion passes with seven eyes. Councilmember Kauke, you are voting no. And Councilmember Gullimba absent. Thank you, everyone. I think seeing no further business already. This meeting is adjourned and the time now is 156 PM. Thank you, everyone.