Order and before we get approval of the agenda I need to request that we remove the item number two. Yeah, the enforcement schools on speed limits because the sheriff can't be here and there's also been some changes. So approval of the agenda is tracking second to close point later. The motion is second we have any comments on the motion. Any public comments on the motion? The none on favor signify by saying I. And he post like something. We have agenda. Our first item is the FY 25 budget development department. Let's jump right into it. Good afternoon everybody. Moe Richitelli budget manager. I would say it's that time of season again, but it's constantly that time of season. So I can't use that. On. Oh, I got this squeaky too. Less squeaky? It's still, it's still. Right, this is still right. What's that's gonna happen? Sounds like the, you know, it's already crying already. We haven't even started. It's already started. The county milled rate in the county manager's budget that was presented on June 11th is at 7.6108 mils. For MSTU law enforcement, the rate is 3.5678. And the total county manager budget on June 11th was 806-653-893. For the general fund, at the 6.6108 millage rate, we had $23 billion in property valuation, which is 10.17% increase over last year's valuation. So that will generate for us 169,356224. That's 15 million more than FY24 adopted budget. For MSDU law enforcement, the final property valuation was 9.6 billion, which was 10.71 percent increase over last year's valuation. Keeping the same milled rate at 3.5678 will generate 32,648 172, which is 3.158253 more than FY24 adopted by the. And then this graph is just keep showing that again, the board has had a decline in the military for ad valorem for general fund and then we've remained flat for MSTLR enforcement. On July 9th we brought to you the assessments. For fire assessment, we will remain the same at tier one being 90.69 per equivalent EBU in tier two eight dollars and 31 cents per EBU. The Shippafoot assessment is gonna remain the same at $10 per month per household. Stormwater assessment will increase $10 to $60 per E-R-U and solid waste assessment. The tipping fee increase is proposed from $57 to $65. And these slides just reflect the history related to those assessments. This slide just demonstrates visually the separation of the revenue sources that we have. Non-operating is larger than our ad valorum at this time. And then where the money goes by classification, other uses is our larger piece of the pie, operating, and then personal services. So today is August 8th at 130 and we're going to start off with Gina and the departments that she oversees. Good afternoon Gina Peable's assistant county manager chief of staff. Thank you again for your continued support of community and administrative services. We very much appreciate it. We do have a number of items that I'd like to just share with you that are in the manager's proposed budget that are related to my offices. So in accreditation, we are requesting a grant specialist who will provide grant writing services in support for all county departments and offices. In the county manager's office, we had increases for both our state and federal lobbyists, which you already approved whenever you approved their contracts several months ago. And I'm personally excited to hire Sculpture Maintenance Company to begin maintenance on bronze sculptures, including Lady Justice, our brand new San Cofa, brand new Lady firefighter, and soon to be installed bunker gear. So our equal opportunity office is going to hire an ADA consultant to conduct an assessment of county programs and services to evaluate their inclusiveness and accessibility to individuals with disabilities. ITS, they have a number of software and licensing required to keep our network safe and assistant our transition from desktop phones to teams computer calling and right before this meeting started I was notified that the state did extend to us some grants so there is 78,000 dollars that will come off of that because the state is going to provide funding for those off-wars. Through our parks and open space department, they're requesting a maintenance worker, equipment, and operating expenses for West End. They're also requesting a parks manager to oversee day-to-day park maintenance. We plan to install security cameras by a bus and parking lot lighting for Cusco, Willa and some amenities funding for routine replacements for tables, grills, benches, and a general increase for cost of supplies and rentals. In our extension office, you know, many, if you recall, there's 60% UF employees and 40% county employees for the agents. So UF did a salary adjustment. So that resulted in us having to true up our portion of that. We also have a retirement payout. So I'd like to publicly recognize and thank Renee Nelms for her many years of dedicated service to both UF and the county. And I'd like to congratulate Dr. Kevin Corus on his recent promotion. So information on all of these proposals are in your packet, and I do have most of my staff here to, if you have any specific questions. The lighting for Cuscoville parking. Can that be controlled? So if they're trying to have lights for a sort of for use at night? And the astronomy groups that come out? I believe the answer is yes, because I don't know that we necessarily want the parking lot lights on whenever we don't even have events. So I'm looking to Ed. Can you find some information for us? Yes. Madam Chair, Ed Williams, Parks and Open Space. We're actually in the process of looking into a solar option. And if we were to do a solar option, those lighting, that lighting comes with controllers that would allow us to turn it off and on. If we go the electric route, those are hardwired street lights from Duke Energy. And I don't believe they could, you know, they could include a way to turn them off. Okay, all right. Thank you for that. I just, I think that might be an important part of it is in the consideration of how we light. I can certainly ask. I've just never seen an energy company put it on an off switch on an on a street light so but we'll see what we can do. We're paying the bill so we ask the front-end off switch. They do it with lighted tennis courts in the parks though, right? Yes, but those are our lights. Okay. These would be lights that essentially we would be leasing from Duke energy. I see. Okay. Some of the state parks I've seen they have instead of having lights up high, they have lights down low because it's a safety thing so you can see where your feet are going. Are we looking at lighting the entire parking lot? Are we looking at safety lights so that people can come and go more safely? Because I had understood that was actually the concern was watching where you're stepping. We're trying to design for what is it called? IES standards for parking lot lighting, which is not an extremely bright level of lighting. It's certainly not like sports lighting or anything like that. So that's what we're shooting for. not an extremely bright level of lighting. It's certainly not like sports lighting or anything like that. So that's what we're shooting for. Well, my big concern is if it's what we call night sky compliant. The solar option would be the electric option. We really had trouble with that. We looked at a dark sky compliant fixture and what we found was with the parking lot layout. It cast a lot of bright light right under the fixture but it didn't spread very much. So we would have to put the fixtures much much closer to be able to do that and actually increase the overall lighting level. And the lighting research says that the less light there is the further you can actually see in the dark, because your eyes don't get blinded by the brighter light. So I agree with using the lower light, but I understand. I mean, Duke Energy has a nice, guy-compliant street light in front of my house. Cast the weird purple light, but it's on all the time. And so I... Well, they do, but just as you said, the contrast is very important. Having really bright, bright spots and then dark spots. And that's what happened with the dark sky compliant fixture. We can go back and take another look at it, but I think it would mean that we include... We would have to add fixtures. We'd put them space much closer together. I think that there are a lot of different options there. There should be. I mean, there's a million different dark sky compliant fixtures out there. But anyway, Commissioner Prissy. Well, I just want to say, I guess my only reflection on this is that I mean, we do a lot of night sky events out there, and it is meant to be a nature park and a retreat center. So I think, and it sounds like the solar option would meet our sustainability goals, our climate goals, our night sky goals, and possibly our lighting goals. So I just encourage us to not take the short view and it comes to cost and think about that bigger picture of all of our priorities and goals as we're thinking about lighting for all of our parks. This may be a great way to test out some of those solar lighting options to begin to expand and things like West End and other places. Right. And is any of our, I'm sorry, did you come? Yeah. Yeah. Is any of this for security or is it only for safety? Oh. Both. Because I've been looking at solar security systems because I've been talking to some folks about downtown security options so that we can open up more parking kind of stuff, you know, partnership with city county and business. And they've got some pretty nice nights, seeing the dark security systems that are out there that operate on solar. So, you know, maybe we can look at doing that with less light I see in the dark security systems that are out there that operate on solar. So maybe we can look at doing that with less lighting if security is a concern. But anyway, I can see that information if it's at all useful. Thank you. What was my question? So what was the budget amount on that? I'm sorry. I don't remember. I had it. 51,518. All right. Thank you. One more question. Commissioner Wheeler? Bus? Yes. We're looking at a bus, right? I hope we're getting a bus. I guess that's up to you, Commissioner. Great. No, no, no, no. Because that was something, you know, that I hope that we could have access to out there too so that I just thought no it's at the very bottom. Oh yeah that's that's why I'm just now saying for sure okay so are we looking at a new bus or a used bus? I guess we'll defer to our new fleet manager to work with us and see see what we can get. Okay, because I know there's a place in town that sells these buses. The intent was new. Jason Meyer, parks director. The intent was new. That's what we priced out and that's that was what the cost was going to be for like a 40 pass and 35 to 40 pass in your ADA compliant bus so that that was kind of what we would prefer us to buy new because they don't want to inherit unforeseen problems certainly that they prefer that that's fine if that will buy me and I'm afford it thank you Thank you. Thank you. Hey. So, I'm sure, Prasya. Okay. I mean, on the bus, I guess I just would have to drive. So we would have to train staff, and then we actually have a one of the bus drivers that work this summer, which is interested in coming back next summer as a camp counselor. There would also double as a certified bus driver. Make sure that contract is in or short term. Short term seasonal. And then we would have like some of my full time staff have class A licenses. So they would just go. And once we got the vehicle, we would have to go test in it, get the training, test in it, and then we'd have backup drivers. And some of the other uses we talked about were during a emergency and then Citizens Academy. We could use it for a smaller Citizens Academy. There's some other areas that could use it as well. So. Come here. One thing might be the Truth and Reconciliation that's tripped up to see the memorial. Yeah. I don't know. That comfortable. Oh, I did more of a school bus. And not. No, it's going to be more of your shuttle style bus. So it will be, I think it comes seatbelt, so it's going to be a little nicer, but I'm not like a luxury bus or anything, but it is. It's going more comfortable than a school bus basically. There's some complaints that it's hard to hear. I don't know if that's a microphone issue. Yeah, I can't be so talk louder. I do usually. That's never been a complainant. I'm going to try to project. OK. I have a couple quick questions. One is Ag extension. This isn't necessarily a question as much as a comment. I know that there have been some conversations in IFA as an extension about an interest in expanding their support and efforts that are more urban in nature, thinking about some of the family and community planning type things, talking or community planning, not like family planning, like community efforts, and also things like potentially gun violence, like all the things that are much more urban, focused and less ag or external focus, not taking away from the ag and the importance of those pieces of their work, but possibly looking at the opportunities. And I know there's been some discussions of things like needs assessments in the community. So just wonder if we could perhaps get an update from extension on their efforts in that regard and what they're thinking about in terms of a Latvia County on that front and if there are possible opportunities to collaborate on that. Grant Specialist I just I guess I'm really excited to see that position. I know it's one that many of our teams will be able to take advantage of. I guess I just wanted to understand that person is going to be looking for grant opportunities as and helping departments to write and submit and monitor grant. Right. And keep up that your court really reports are due. Right. Right. And help them with all that. That's really great. That's exciting. That's a really, really, that person will earn their keep. Yes. That's very exciting. The other question was, you mentioned, oh, in parks, that was the other piece. Is the new parks manager, that person's gonna be for West End, you said it's specific? So the park maintenance worker would specifically be for West End and then there would be somebody that would be our park more operations manager so they would be responsible for countywide. Yes. Madam Choseau, essentially that position was Jason's prior position. When Jason promoted, we did not replace it. Gotcha. And so he's kind of been doing double duty, but we really do need to put that position back in. And as these newer parks come online, a lot of them are going to have more infrastructure. You know, they have like more pavilion, more maintenance needs. Is that going to be work you contract out or how are you planning to sort of take on all those increased maintenance needs? So that's one of the prime purposes for the manager position as well as to get into a preventative maintenance program and to implement in-house staying on top of these things as we go in and they have life expectancies and hence which is why we were asking like some of our stuff is old and that's why we were asking for the replacement funding this year to start cycling out parks that have older benches and tables and grills that are just beyond repair so that we can start doing that and then with the only view worked out where it's a cycle to one by the time we replace everything we'll be able to start over again but that person will be between contractors that like it's outside the scope of what we can do like if it's something that's gonna be a little above and beyond with average part-mates worker can do they'll hire a contractor plumber will you, but we'll try to do as much as and then they'll be the one to kind of plan that out for This is the year we need to do these things here's what we've got to do the next six months eight months and so on so Yeah, I really need it. Yeah, for sure Okay My only other thing would be I you know, I have noticed an increase in the use in our parks What I love I think that's great. And I guess I just wonder as this year goes on, if we're gonna be doing any counts or monitoring of park usage and sort of thinking about level of service in terms of maintenance trash pickup, those sorts of things, is that something that this person would also be thinking about doing? Yes, that's kind of one of the things that they would have the more time than I've been able to allocate to that. So we do the traffic count set postbrings now, but working with tourism there's some software that you can do where you actually geofence your parks to where it will track people's, I guess you use the cell phone data or something, pings the cell phone. So you can kind of keep a running track of how many people are coming to your parks and you can kind of see you know how what the What the numbers are so that we could start looking county-wide like how many people are going to Jones with how many people are going to better and so it's kind of things Yeah, yeah, we have that we have that set up Jessica has all of that information right and even it tells where people are coming from from yeah I just I'm interested in, I just, you know, it's like, I just think I know, I know how limited your staffing is in terms of Meeting it, you know, and how much work they have to do and how much space they have to cover. I'm just thinking as the parks get more use and as we promote them more and as we upgrade them, The needs especially for things just like waste on the weekends, like emptying trash cans and when they start to overflow places, so just thinking proactively thinking about how we support you in terms of that mean and space. But it sounds like you're on top of that. Yes. And OMB helped us create a 10-year staffing plan where we were looking at trying to utilize wild spaces and balance between rotating back into general fun, but trying to get a position a year over the next 10 years because when we compare ourselves to similar counties, the same size, same budgets, we're about 10 positions short. At most agencies of our size, there are about 30 to 34 positions total. So we are looking at that, but we're also trying to be responsible that we're not gonna just say, hey, we need all these just for, we're gonna try to look at it year to year and say, like, well, we really need more maintenance or this year we've gotten so much reservations and so much use and like what depends on what expansions we do at West and we may need another administrative person to try to run kind of the reservation systems and things like that so we're gonna kind of base the year to year and kind of go but we've got a good plan together and we've got all the numbers crunch so it's something that we feel confident we can come forward with and stand behind great. Thank you I Okay any further questions All right, I guess we can move on Thank you Next we have MC Daniels. Good afternoon commissioners and MC Daniels assistant county manager. So four departments to talk about with their budgets. Most of them are things you've seen a couple of them will talk about today and then when we finish going through couple of them will talk about today. And then when we finish going through the departments, we'll talk about the 301 corridor study. We need you to look at the map today that's your one decision point, but we'll lay out what we're doing with that as well. So in growth management, first department, the only request in growth management is for a GIS manager. We talked about this last year and we're looking at it forward so we're ready to move forward and create that. Still looking at how that will work with our different GIS partners in the different departments. Whether they'll come into one or the manager will kind of be the outreach. They already have a really strong GIS planning group. The different departments do that environmental protection, public work, growth management, fire rescue, and now seeds as a GIS person position. So those are the positions we have and that is the one request and that. So a quick question about that. Since we are also getting the grants specialist, I see the GIS department and the grants department working very closely together because grants, you know, having strong maps, strong GIS analysis is huge for getting grant work Is that something that's been talked about or looked at is that overlap or so part of the Maybe not that specifically but part of the the job duties of this position We'll be to make sure that all of the counties GIS needs are met Okay, so they'll be that coordinating person and how that's coordinated we're still going to look at. But getting that person in to start that coordination whether it's bringing them all in and Jeff finding room for them at growth management or just keeping them embedded because the work they're doing in the other departments now is full time. So it may be just, but with the addition of this manager and the work that everybody's doing for the departments that don't have needs or the grant specialists who says we need this map, we'll be able to tell who can get that the quickest and coordinate all that work. Right because sometimes it's not just about making this map, it's like making a bunch of maps to sort of see what you, you know, to get the right combination of data to tell a story you want to tell. Which is what growth management mostly gets that job now for the different areas. Right. Alright, cool. Alright, thank you. I think Madam Manager is now sorry. I was just going to say part of that too is we've had lots of departments who've requested GIS and when you ask them is that a full time, do you have enough for full time? A lot of times it's not for some specific needs so by being able to do this then we can look at how do we make sure that those needs are met we can, you know, with overall, that person will be responsible to make sure those tasks are getting divvied out and where they need to be, too. So, you know, where we can't support a full-time GIS person in the department, we can still make sure that work is getting done as well. I think it was great. So, thank you. Madam Manager? Yeah. Yeah. Whoever went through, I'm going to finish the presentation. Madam manager or yeah, whoever my question is two fold one is I know that we hired somebody who was doing like GIS mapping coordination and conjunction with the seeds department all that person report to this person or through this person or coordinate with this person how that work and then we're looking at that. Yes we're looking at how that is all going to work part of this too is you've got some you've got GIS people in different departments. In all these different departments. And having that one person who knows what GIS people do and being able to oversee them as well and keep them on task and make sure as a department, I don't know that I would know that they were doing with their support. What a GIS person does right not having that expertise So yes, we're still working on logistics as I think I mentioned to a couple of you will be looking at bringing to you a You know a full Organizational chart that has the different departments and the overall because there are a lot of changes There's combining the departments that the board has already signed off on like a development. And so you've seen bits and pieces of those, but we need to bring that full layout to you of the organization as we envision it with all these added positions where they go, who will be supervising them, that type of thing. So we'll have that ironed out for you by the end of September. And will this person be taking over the efforts around the dashboarding and like being able to externally communicate and internally evaluate our metrics and goals and things like that, is that something that is fit under? Because I know it's not just maps. I mean, I guess that's, I guess the way I'm going with these conversation is that I think that whoever's in this position or whoever ends up wherever this lands, it's like, I think data management and data integrity are also a huge part, because GIS is kind of garbage and garbage out. And like, a lot of times what happens is you'll have a bunch of departments who all have data that they want to map, but their data doesn't match. They didn't collect it the same way, right? And they didn't have any kind of parameters around data. So data integrity and having data standards is really important to getting good quality and being able to overlap things or being able to all use the same effort. If EPD is collecting data on water, but then so is public works. But then public works is collecting it by individual address and work, and they're collecting it by individual address and work and, you know, they're collecting it by parcel code or something like that. And also, you can't actually, you have to do a lot of work to like make those two data layers match each other. And so just thinking about this person having strong data integrity, data management skills so that they could support our dashboarding and efforts to like have less silos and look across our departments for how we're meeting our strategic goals. Yes. And that's part of the coordination that this person would be responsible for to make sure, I mean because we also don't want two people doing the same thing, right, either. And you know, we have been looking at this position for the last probably two years, two or three years now. We talk about it every year, and we've been saying, we're not quite there yet, needing this. And I think we've reached the point now where we've said, we're at the point now where we need to bring somebody to kind of manage, because we have so many different projects now that the board has asked us to move forward with. That has a lot of GIS, heavy GIS, GIS best based or heavy GIS input. And so we felt like this is, you know, we're at that point now. We need somebody to help with that. Okay. Well, I guess I, I, I, I, I, I guess I would just maybe encourage or ask to explore the idea of both data analytics and GIS, because I think GIS is just one tool for analyzing data, and there's lots of other tools that can end up getting used. And so a person having some skills and some of those other statistical analyses and things that they could do to use that data that's behind what the maps create to give us good decision-making power would be really useful. So they're really good. Yeah, on the resume. Exactly. They have on the resume. Exactly. They have data analytics broadly, and then GIS is like a tool that they're trained in. GIS is really just a tool for doing data analytics. So it's like, you know, it's like hoping they could do it at a broad level with other types of things. And the departments will know which tools they use for data analytics, and they could sort of share with you possibly what those things are about. Cool. That's exciting. That's exciting. And of course, management experience. That's very exciting. Yeah, we have such big asks, you know. Yes, we're excited. We have this person exists. They do. They might be expensive if they exist. And just before we leave growth management, just to remind the public that maybe listening what is end growth management, you've got development review, you've got the planning division which is current and comprehensive planning, you've got zoning division, you've got the building division and transportation and of course we have GIS which will now become more of a division, they've been kind of embedded in transportation and now sort of in the current planning. But I guess I did have one question. I know that we had set some goals around building permits, like time frames and things like that. And I just wonder, like, are we meeting those? Does it feel like we have what we need in that department? Because I remember you bringing that up last year that it was difficult to get good people and keep good people and Yeah, so So in the inspection part now let Jeff come up here if I If he doesn't like what I say or wants to add to it In the inspection part we do we're we're well-staffed and our inspectors, you know We've switched years ago. We had a really hard time getting anyone at all. So with our building official now, Dan Gargis, he's really pulled in people that don't have their licenses and is working with them and they're getting licensed. So we're in a good position there as far as processing permits. We do have a new state law that goes into effect. I don't think it's told January. Is that right? About timeframes for getting for that intake to get it to plans review and those timeframes we probably aren't meeting right now because it's a five day turnaround. Now if they don't pay us or something like that it doesn't count but if it's just you know we have 400 to review and we can't get them out we're at five to seven days probably, but not, not right at the five. So we are watching that. That would be another permit clerk needed, but for right now, we're okay. We don't think it needs to be a budget ask. Of course, the building division has its own budget anyway. So it would have to be, we'd have the money in reserve. So if we have a need to come say mid-year with that, that we just can't process them quick enough, we'll bring that to you right now. Right. And so we saw, without we saw the trend down, but we're not seeing that right now. It's not going down. Some of the valuations are, but not the permitting itself. So it may be a real issue, right? This minute? We're okay. That. Yeah. Okay. And my only other question is, what the EAR coming in, like all of the work we're doing with the new, or the potential during the pine health strategic and all of that. Like we have, are we contracting some of that work? Or are we doing that all internally? Madam Chair, Jeff A.S. Griff Management Director. So we do have some budget for consultant services and that's a lot of it we will do in-house, but where we have specialty needs, we will probably do some contract. We added 16,000 from when the county manages budget to now. So we'll be bringing back to you everything that's transposed in the last 30 days. Okay, great, thank you so much. I can click. Any further questions on this item? All right, Madam Chair, if I can say I need to miss these points. I think it's important for the public to understand too as we are going through and we're talking about the enhancements we're asking for In this next budget. It is not all general fund Right. It's not all ad war and there is a variety of sources that are Being utilized for these requests. So this is these are not all general fund asks. And quite frankly these are not anything that are frivolous either. These are necessary tools for us to do our jobs better and well and for the good of county. And to Michelle's point most of what you're gonna hear out of our groups isn't general fund. Yeah. The GIS manager is potentially there may be some other funding but yeah some splits. Okay, we good with growth management. All right so moving on code administration. We have had a year but we have a new code director that I'd like to introduce. Yeah. That! He's the come up. That was it? That's all I got. You know, it was a good thing. Go ahead and sit down, because then they have questions for you. Scott Przyski, our new codes director, who has a lot of experience managing a codes department the same size as ours. So we've been here three weeks. We're so glad to have him. He's getting a full educational damage assessment and storms coming in. All the Codes officers are out there doing that right now. But the only request that we had in Codes Administration actually came from the board. And that was when we got rid of the rental housing program and you wanted an education and outreach person for Codes enforcement around minimum housing and what's out there. So we have that in the budget. We put the request at your request in here. But now that we have a new director on board, Scott and I have been talking for the past couple of weeks. And we would like to see, we are fully staffed. We finally have all staffing, all six codes officers. We have a couple of new ones and they're all fairly new. But so we're good to go. They are eager, they are wanting to learn, they are wanting to get minimum housing certified. Some of them we would like to, if you'd like to keep the program in the budget, we'd like to take the first six months or so to look at what we have to get the program going in-house with who we have and see whether we can do it that way. We could come back to you and talk about this is how it's working. This is who's out there. If we need to add this position as a full time or maybe a part time. I'm going to make about that. I'm a member of that. Yeah, I mean, as long as I can't train, I think it's actually better because it becomes kind of part of the culture of the coast part. So I would need to pay for that. Yeah, I'm also in face on as the concept, right, like that the culture of this idea of being pro-active at sharing with people the importance of, and their rights around minimum housing standards and helping to sort of preempt the Slum lord situation that we find ourselves in from time to time is really what I think the goal was right since we weren't able to do the rental Requirement to be able to say well here's your rights Here's the opportunities that you have to make sure that the houses that you live in are safe and So yeah, I'm waiting to see and letting you kind of Through trial by Hurricane get used to the new department Brand new brand new where you coming in from South Florida course brings Tamarack area. Oh welcome to Kingsville Much quieter what helps up here. So to Kingsville. Absolutely. Much quieter. What a house up here, so figure it out. I just want to work up here. Awesome. What great and interesting things did you do in Coral Springs to get our attention on here. I love the Coral Springs. I was the code manager for Tamarack for 10 years. And previously that, I was the field supervisor and the lead code also for city temperate pines for 15 years. So I'll tell you about 25 years experience. What cool things did you do? What cool thing? A lot of things. I've code wise I've towed vehicles I've towed semis. We've gone in nightclubs I mean I don't think you've got a lot of nightclubs here. We did noise and for it. We lot of evening things, lot of daytime things. So you're in that, you're in that stuff. I've got a lot of ideas. I've gone through some of your ordinances. I've sat down with Missy and I'm going can definitely improve on. Yeah, I think code enforcement is one of those opportunity jobs where there is a lot of creative opportunities to help communities and fix problems all at the same time. So I like forward to working with you. I used to be on the code enforcement board before we had to magistrate. And it's one of my favorite departments. So I'm going to go ahead and have a best friend. I'm going to see the you know, we have a really eager game and now that's great. I'm excited to have him. Well, come yes. Thank you. We're good. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. He's a good guy. Yeah. He's turning into my favorite because he liked how much he had in his budget when we met. So. He's not. to my favorite because he liked how much he had in his budget when we met. So he's doing very well to start. That's right. That looks a great stir. Okay, so moving on to solid waste. In the solid waste department, we have the transfer station, Louis de Brown transfer station, of course, hazardous waste management, our rural collection centers, waste collection and alternatives, which also has the education and outreach program that we are gonna model some of the codes enforcement on different things, obviously. And the Solid Waste Engineering and Compliance Monitoring, those are the major groups within Solid Waste and the two budget requests are to replace the tour trolley. They spend a lot of time of the year taking school groups or camps or like the Citizens Academy own tours out at Le Vida Brown and teaching them all about how that really is a trolley bag. If you haven't been on the tour trolley, I highly recommend going out there and getting the tour. It is amazing. I think I have a better comment. The current one's still for it. And we'll have to take the right. And I will say I did ask how often it is used before I put this in the recommended budget. But it is meant we use quite often. It is. Yes. So I thought well-cure for a while. It met the two prong tests because then we also asked based on safety of people being out in that environment. Yeah. They're not running around having people walk around out there with trucks. Is it road worthy? I mean can you take it on the highway or is it just? Is it road worthy? I mean, can you take it on the highway? Or is it just hair transplant? I just, we're thinking about borrowing it between departments. I was thinking it was like downtown. You know, even. Ghosts almost silly to waste director. You know I wouldn't take it on the road. OK. We just hold it with a truck. So it's just for small trips around the house. OK. And a new one would be the same. I mean, it's just, it's just cute. It's just very dynamic. I got you. Okay, well very nice. I'll be out there and drive that out. It's a great one. Go with you. Christian, come with you. I guess my only question is, I know that we were, we've been working with the repurposed and they did the audit of all of the bulky materials and they were gonna be coming to present that to us sometimes soon. I was wondering if there was thoughts about future of the recovery facility or the- We just got their report this week. So we haven't even read it. We got it this week. Okay. And then so that's part one of the new reports, you recall the board approved moving the future Hoster's Ways Facility to the Eco Loop to make up that space. So we actually had a meeting with UF yesterday where they did a conceptual design for that new Hosterous Ways Facility. So it's moving forward. But the next one is read the report from the report process project. They also did similar work for the city. We want to put them together. We got to have that picture. Good. That's great. And C&D, I guess is the only other question I have. Because we've had this conversation back and forth and back and forth. Have one. Don't have one. Do you know where are we? I don't have any new information on C&D. I mean, I know waste, raw, acquire, florists. Okay. I know they're not going to be use in the florist. I feel they're going to be a different I feel it's my understanding, but we're not doing anything on CND. The material part we're still working on the code changes. So far, it's closing the scene or waste bro is closing that's something still open as far as I know. But waste brock wire the their transfer station transfer transfer. They want it on the station. So they're taking that business. The landfill is separate. Have you been to that transfer station? Is that the one on Hall for the room? Yes. Yeah, I have needs to be updated. Yeah, it's a very small one Yeah, but it's good for it's good for what they do. I mean they were doing some materials recovery So at that site so is there do you know if there's a plan to do more materials recovery or where they are? I haven't spoken with Wayspros on about their long-term plans, but yeah, we will. Okay. I have a discussion. I mean, we told the board we were looking at code changes, but those code changes are dependent on having the infrastructure in town to be able to comply with those codes. Yeah, yeah. We're not there yet. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, for the future. Commissioner, we look and I have a question too. I'm still getting calls from folks out in the county about GFL not picking up. You know, that they're paying for services. They feel like that they're not getting or that the contract has changed with those individual people. So now that they're having to take their garbage closer to a road that's more accessible. And I've got someone that I need to send to you for that. And how far along in the contract are we with GFL? But then a five year? So we're the second year of the contract. The residential portion hasn't started. Our residential portions will start next year. Most of the calls you're getting are from what we call the subscription customers. And what we did for them is, you know, before it used to be a closed market, they had to use our hauler. We opened it up so they can call anybody. A lot of them are calling the other haulers and their haulers are not interested in providing that service. So they're still stocked by default with GFL. But they have the option to either take it themselves or try to negotiate something with the other holders. As far as the road, the road's an issue, especially this weekend, they're floated, they're hard to travel. So when is that? We do ask people to be patient or put them at the measure also, we can pick up the garbage. Okay, all right, thank you. Well, that's that was one of the questions. Yeah, we're getting a lot of those this week. Okay, okay, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right, one question for me. Since we've been, are we going to be getting an update on the new collection? No, the facility going in the eco-loop that we've been getting negative news reports about are you going to give us an update on that sometime under you've been doing your own investigation? Yes, on that end we pretty much concluded the investigation. I mean we didn't see any concerns. There are some new developments that just happened yesterday so I'm trying to sort things out but I'll definitely be back given an update to that. Okay. I just wanted the public to hear that since we've gotten so many emails about we are looking into it and in a specific concerns we didn't find any issues. Okay good. And we did talk to the DEP. Okay great. Hopefully stay up to the City of Jacksonville they're perfectly happy with that. Okay. Over eager reporter. Okay. All right. Thank you for that. Okay. The other budget request for Solid Waste is illegal dumping disposal fee waivers. And that really is between departments. As public works and lands do a lot of pickups. Either cleaning up their own lands or picking up illegal dumping for us. So this is a way to make the funds whole and cover the cost of that because our separate funds is not general fund money. When we do find illegal dumping, do we do any investigation with the Sheriff's Department on that? We, if we need to involve the Sheriff's Department, we do usually we do the investigation ourselves as codes enforcement. And if we can't tell, if it's mattresses and toilets that don't have names on them, then we get them. Either we do have contractors now on ready to clean up sites. You know, your new since abatement program that you have, we now have a few contractors that we can pull from for that so they can do these other cleanups. But if we can tell who dumped it, then we follow it. And most times when it's that kind of dumping, it's not household mail. Right. You can easily tell. But yes, we do investigate. Okay. All right. thank you. All right, any further questions on Salt Waste or Recovery? Thank you, Beth. Thank you. Thank you, Beth. Thank you, Gus. All right, next we have public works and we have a few requests and a budget reduction in here that we'll talk about. So Ramon has asked for a portable radar traffic data recorder and that's for our traffic data and this will allow us to have one person doing this instead of two individuals when we are looking at traffic data. And the other request at the bottom and the skip to the bottom is for some equipment or skids dear miniskovators of vehicle for engineering and we will be financing those and the titles for 159,000 We are proposing to eliminate the construction crew that you put into the budget last year It really isn't it isn't working yet and we've got our projects with the surtax money Of course started and ongoing but this equip this crew We're competing with people we're competing with materials and we're competing with equipment with the private Companies out there and it would be really We haven't been able to even stop them. We haven't been able to stop them We're still 25% understaffed just in regular public works. And we think eliminating this out of the budget frees up a little bit of the budget for amongst us in other areas and we're proposing to eliminate it and not keep pursuing it. Mr. Corner. So next, say, two to three year road projects, we are outsourcing, I guess. And if we have, we put those bids kind of on the street, are they starting to get on the street? Because the idea, what I remember a moment of this crew was we had a number of neighborhood roads, a number of smaller roads. Yeah. We did that. Yeah, that's how I was going to ask for it. Yes. Ramonga Varekte, a bodywork director. We did by one piece of equipment. It was a four-foot milling machine. There's a fancy name for it, but it's a milling machine. And that's the one we're going to use with our maintenance crews. We're going to go there, actually, mill like four-foot paths. Instead of filling a part hole every few inches, we're going to try to get large paths and go to that. We were hoping to start doing that for, frankly, this week, but then Debbie came in. So now that is running out of some hole until we get caught up again. On the contracting side, let's remember that we approved the program May of 23, which was already almost 2.30 in 2.50 year, 23. So even though it's a 10 year program for us, it was more like a 9.50 year program. So we're trying to catch up from 23 and 24. The good news is that we currently have over $20 million dollars dollars, the work already committed. We have completed also some projects. We will be getting a report for July for me shortly, shortly being probably early next week. So and we have approximately another $30 million. That's about to be also given out. We did have to reject one bid just recently. Unfortunately for Northeastern of WFD third avenue. So we're working on that. We're asking contractors, okay, what happened? But we were catching up. There's a lot of projects out there. We are beginning also to work on design for 2025 already, because there's some of us funding that was already in 2024. And we are also providing work also, we're also consulting out some of the work, because you know, in how staff cannot do everything. Because as the others, then, in your budget for this year, you had a professional engineer C3 and two senior designers in the budget. We have been able to fill any of those positions. So we'll see some of that money now to also get a consultancy. That is that intercom. But we are working on it. We are not that far behind. We're about to catch up. The plan is by the end of this year to be cut up with 23 and 24. And then we'll be cut up and it'll be a lot easier working with our contractors. Some projects do go to bid because they're too big to use our normal annual contracts and we're also in the process of bidding out a what I call a road construction annual bid where we have more items in the annual bid where we can actually select from the menu and then issue more work orders that way. That's a good. So that's a process right now. Okay. That remote thank you. Thank you for all the work you've done. You know, they know the going. They know the going. They know the going. I did it. Commissioner Wheeler. Yes, yes. I was at Mavine Middle School today. In the principal grabbed me he said they need a senator to all of us today about the sidewalks in front of the school that are have been crumbled and they need to repair now mayor Cooper said that they belong to us so I don't know if that's us or the city of a latchaway or not so if you don't mind the sidewalk has been destroyed in front of the sidewalks I think it's been broken up. It looks like it's been broken up so I don't know who there is but anyway We got emails today from I'm sure I'm gonna get those emails for it to me. I always do When I look at him up well will look at it It might be one of those roads that maybe we maintain on the travelway and the sidewalk is maintained by the city, but I'll look into it. Because when the state gave us quite a few miles of roads, those roads that went through the cities, the counties, or the public were travelway, anything on site right away is the cities. Unfortunately, a lot of the cities don't even know what that fact. And we're the one that usually are breaking the news to them. Thank you. Thank you for your explanation. One more question on the four-foot milling machine. Do you have, I've had several people ask me about this. Are you willing to share where you're looking to start with that trial? You don't have to. If you don't want to keep that secret, I have seven neighborhoods. I am not in a position to say what Rose will go do first. I can tell you that we're going to select roads at first where they're very low volume. Because we don't want to go and start doing one with high volume first. It's a learning step. We're with training. All my staff is learning right now, everything because over the last few years we have had a lot of turnovers so we're teaching and we're teaching our staff to do construction, not just maintenance. So it's a learning process. So we're going to start in a low volume row first and then as we graduate we're going to tackle others. That makes total sense and I will share that information with the interest. So there's some parking lots that people would volunteer to let you play. That makes total sense and I will share that information with the interest it's a decision. So there's some parking lots that people would volunteer to let you play? Well actually we started in the PolyWish parking lot. And that one will. So one more question, I and forgive me if you answered this and I missed it. But we did a salary study for engineers in public works and there's going to be raises for the engineers is that correct? Or did I just make that all up in my head? I wish we would do that. We add on to my knowledge. We have not done that. I think it's in the process with HR right now. And it's not just for engineers. I think it's for all the HR employees. Madam Chair, when we're requested, we will do classification reviews for individual, either an individual position, or when I say individual position, maybe, because that's the only, we only have one FTE in that position, or a series of positions like all engineers. But we are working on bringing somebody in to do a classification study, not necessarily salary, but classification. Our classification is correct. We also have a lot of classifications that are really the same job. You know, clerical is one of those where we have probably 14 or 16 classifications for basically administrative assistance on a variety. I mean, so that are very specific to a department when really they do all the same things, just for a different subject. So we're looking at bringing somebody in through HR has that money in their budget too. Well, I tried to send some of our jobs out to some young engineers I know and our salaries were up to par. And I was, I wanted to ask you. And we will always struggle with competing with the private sector. Yeah, especially right now, professional level position, I mean, we're struggling with all positions, but professional level positions in particular we struggle with. Yeah. And we're not the only ones. No, I know. but professional level positions in particular we struggle with. Yeah. And we're not the only ones. No, I know. But I was curious because I sort of remembered that, but I guess I did make that up in my head. It was my question of thinking about my life. You have good news, and next week you will get to meet our new fleet manager. We were so successful in getting one before Jailer retired. They overlap for about two weeks. And we also, after a little bit over two years, we actually have a county surveyor now. Oh, excellent. So you're gonna get to meet him also next week, next week on the 13th. And an example of salaries and specifications, you know, part of the, like I said, you authorized two senior CAD designers for this one. And I thought the money was acceptable. Well then we went out and never to advertise and there was a gentleman that I was looking at and begging to apply because I trained him when I was in Highlands County and now he worked for Kimley Horner and he was in high springs. So I wanted to read him so he asked me what's the money I said I gave him the money and then he sent me a copy of his W2 from last year it was $140,000 I said I guess I'm done talking yeah we can't compete with that it's tough Commissioner Wheeler just thank you so much to you and you're true they were out there Sunday night you know superv. They were out there Sunday night, you know, supervising stand bags. And so Sunday night is not the kind of thing you wouldn't be doing filling sandbags, but they were wonderful. Well, during the whole store, they were doing lots of work. And interestingly, we left three shovels out on the day of the sandbag on Saturday. And we still had three shovels out on on on in the day of the sandbag on Saturday and we still have three showers and three showers and Tuesday. Well, that is pretty awesome. That is great. Yes, Commissioner Prisya. I on that front, I guess one, thanks a big thank you to everybody and all the work you guys did, you guys did proactively over the past couple of years around stormwater because we got that aim of percent of the hills and we've gotten any most from others and calls just saying, you know, it's working, what we're doing is working and that's great news. It's always wonderful to hear that the investments we're making to try to solve these issues are actually working. So thank you for all of that and I I guess my question is are there other things like that that are we still need to do? And then with regards to this like we're buying houses and we're going to have to put in the storm water ponds to the grants cover the work on that or where are we with those projects. Well, commissioners since okay, Houston and Fay both houses have been purchased already. One house is not going to be, but not going to be vacated until I think in September. We are already working on issuing task orders to the engineering companies and the testing companies to go and test for asbestos and let before we demolish. But the first step is to do the later asbestos, then with the knowledge. And then the design, the permitting is going to take a little bit longer but then we're going to go in after the Mology and I tell people dig a big hole for retention. So that's working but the good news is like you said commissioner that all our legacy Work covered. We did have a few pump issues here and there but you always going to have that that's what we have spares And they all all the size worked out we are doing some tweaking now on the initial side. For example, he's Glenn. I asked my staff today actually to look at putting a second suction point there because even though we have one of the big pumps, any work, the rod did not go underwater but only a few inches and overnight. It's back to normal now. Yeah, but maybe it would be good to have a second suction point there and be used to see we can actually have maybe a second pump there. But everything else, Robin Lane, I would rode into the gravel lane. It was wet obviously because it was raining, but there was absolutely no pounding, nothing on the road. The pond was a elevation 12 and it can get all the way to 24. Both pumps were humming. They were both pumping into the DOT system. Worked great. So it was great to be able to be in the command center over there and poly works. And the only thing we were looking at was trees and a couple of road washouts, but no flooding. It was sinkholes. Yeah. And my only last comment was I didn't know. That was an hour. That was a lot of noise. We didn't look at three possible sinkholes, but these sinkholes were not ours. My only last comment was to the sidewalk maintenance conversation. I had been walking more of our sidewalks lately and I've noticed a lot of like oh I mean summer so everything's kind of over-roin but 53rd Avenue I don't know if that's our sidewalk especially over by Home Depot it seems like a lot of that is things that Home Depot planted so it's kind of weird but it's like totally overhanging the sidewalk and then 16th Avenue so I know what our maintenance like it was on site. I know we're not. Yeah, come on. Those roads are actually done. We actually have contractors do it. So it's always in the other roads. We try to do a temp temp. But especially right now, after a big storm like this, it's going to take us quite some time to catch up. And the road will come first, unfortunately. But that's where the traffic, the vehicles are. But the plan is, we're the next two weeks to basically at least go pick up everything. We are going to have low line branches, so we're going to have to come back and cut still. How many inches of rain did we get? Between five and seven and a half, depending where you look. Robin Lane. Robin Lane was five and a half inches. But keep in mind, that's all neat, the day of the storm. Within 24 hours. Yes. We've been getting large storms almost every day for the past two weeks. Right. Those pumps have been working for the past two or three weeks, not just on the storm. Which is one reason why it was manageable the day of the storm. Well I guess I just we go as we move into like parks and I mean trails master plan. I think again we're also we're like we're going to be bringing more emphasis to it. We're trying to push the idea of people using alternative transportation and using our side mocks and our trails more. So I think thinking about maintenance of those and how if we need to increase and support for that, it's something that's sooner or later you will get that request, but first we need to fix our budgets. Maybe a couple of those things that go into... But yeah, but I completely understand and as the county grows and you keep adding more trails, that's true. Just like parks, just for you for West End, you have increased our portion a lot more than that. But that's coming, but not right now. Right now we need to get a handle on our revenues versus our budgets. All right, thank you. Thank you. We're a quick question, Ramona. Are you thinking at all? I really want to talk about the, are we going to have to somehow work on the 39th street, you know, where it goes down of the hill past the light in the interstate? I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. in that area that comes from I-75. Okay. And the DOT portion of 39th, but mostly 75th. No, that's not in any program right now. The good news is that in this storm 39th was not going underwater because again, a lot of portion is because we've been pumping regularly instead of waiting until we were completely overtaking to pump. So that helped. I think I believe. But right now there's no plans for that. The culverts underneath 39, they're just basically equalizer culverts. So whatever the elections are on side, it's gonna be on the other side. And so we can do it this time. A lot of new growth's gonna be happening. Yes, and those growths we have met with the engineers and I and we basically have made sure that they do not take whatever storage is there right now. So Maripa, we want them to actually have more storage available after they're done. All right. That was the Emily other store spot that I could think of right now. So I had one question just why are we financing the equipment? Is the interest rate versus inflation? Does that just make sense or? Tommy's suggestion is that we had so many equipment requests rather than put it all on the general fund to finance. We also are looking at doing some additional ambulances so that we can get them ordered and get them in sooner. What's happening is part of replacement. We have a need faster than we can get them ordered and get them in. So our goal is to do a financing package for this equipment and some others that will be coming. We're putting that list together right now and then finance all of that so we can get the orders in and then get the equipment. I see my rates are very good. It makes sense to me. I just wanted to ask for the public since it's like why are you financing? And Madam Chair of two most point the problem we're running into is we're getting a two-year lead time on some of this equipment and so we have a system set up where departments put money aside into a vehicle replacement fund knowing what the useful life is of a vehicle whether it be a fire truck or you know a regular you know vehicle that they're driving to sites like codes or what have you and so they put that money aside the problem is that they're putting money aside every year, but we have to order it two years ahead of time in order to get it and make a payment and they haven't built up the funds yet. Right. For that, we used to be able to say, okay, in this year we have a replacement, we have the funds, we've saved it up, order the vehicle, now we have to do it two years ahead of time and we don't have those funds saved up yet because it's not you know time yet so we're basically those those payments into that is part of what we're using to make the make the financial payments is the payments we would have been paying into a fund but we're we're not going to see some of these things for another two years even though we're ordering now now. Thank you, thank you. That makes sense. Let me show you. We have no free payment penalty. The manager said, yes. We were told by one very large vendor that it might get normalized in 2026. Might. That was the keyword. So I don't know. I am tired of waiting quite frankly, but we're the emergency industry. So this enables us. We're ordering vehicles now that we know aren't going to need replacement for another two plus years because that way we can make sure that we have them when we need them. When we need them. All right, thank you. That's very nice. All right. Thank you for both. I don't think we have any more questions. Madam Chair, just before we finish, for the public works has fleet road and bridge storm letter and engineering as embedded in their department. There are no more questions on those budget issues. We will move to the 301 corridor, which is not, it's all departments, it's not one. Good for that? Okay. So if you remember, well, I don't remember the month now. I had it in my head yesterday. Yeah. Well, a few months ago, you asked us to look at the 301 corridor and east county and do a needs assessment of a broad needs assessment for social services, broadband transportation, housing, food, availability, all of those things. So we have, we brought together people in pretty much every department to start this discussion and we have a smaller working group that touches also a bunch of departments. I'm going to go through the timeline that we've projected out for this. I just want you to remember it is really big. It is an incredible study. I think everybody that's starting to work on is really excited about what it can be, but we want it to be right and something that we can use. And the end goal when we talked about it with you was to get it ready for grants. We need to do this specific project now first. Let's find a grant for it. So to that end we've started working on it. The one ask today we have if you will go to the map is the map. So we have a three-phase project right now in this first phase. It's all staff and we'll be pulling in consultants as we as we move on and we'll get into the phases in a minute. But if you can see this map, we've used roads, the lake, and population were a few of the big things we looked at to say East County because you kind of went away from 301 corridor and said East County. So we're outside of the East Gainesville study that you already know about, but and then it goes east. So this is the area that we're looking at. As we go forward without talking about the phases in a minute, but as we go forward, we if this is the if this looks like what you were envisioning, we may come back to you and say okay we need to focus in this area first. We're getting the most feedback from this area. We need to get a smaller geographic area to focus in, but we're not very yet. But so as we go through, think about this map and we can come back to it if that looks like. That does look like for what I'm thinking. Me too. Because if you got hot-thorn, you got Waldo, you have the in between and the population centers. Okay. All the natural resources of those four lakes. And, you know, and I wanted to capture the, um, the challenged communities in that area. And I think that while that does also capture some very wealthy communities, it captures all of the challenges. Yeah, making up and you guys. You guys are all in good shape. Yeah, yeah, that's that's right. Right, pretty good. And you know, and it does come all the way to McAnopee and we have met with Hawthorne and Waldo and McAnopee managers and we'll talk in a minute we're going to do a big kickoff in Hawthorne as a central location in October. But we did pull in McAnopee. Maybe economic development isn't what they want to see because they don't want to grow out quite as much. Of course, they want jobs for the people living down there. But they're also at a major intersection of roads. And it makes sense. You're going to have things coming through there for economic development. So all right so good if you're good with that if you'll go to the next slide just to give you kind of a picture of that area. It's in geography in land area it's about a third of a county but you can see total population is only 18,000. There are some pockets of higher population that we didn't expect to see concentrations. I mean you knew the cities but there are some actually in the rural part too that you see concentrations. You can see a square mile, 6,700 residential units and we did commercial and agricultural acreage just to kind of give you a picture of what's out there. Okay, so the project components for the whole study and in your backup you have the scope more laid out. It doesn't have all the details in it but it has the highlights of how the scope of work looks so you can take a look at that. So existing data collection, we're doing that now. Stateholder engagement, we are kicking that off in October with that meeting in Hawthorne. Data analysis, we, as soon as we get all our data in, we're doing that and we'll be analyzing the data that we know is already out there and then of course in a project like this it is fundamental to talk to the people and to get what you know we may say this is an issue and they're like no not really this is our biggest problem so we have to have those communications and that's going to take place over the next year and then probably even more so the following year when we bring on a consultant. Report findings and recommendations of course, then we'll prioritize the needs from those findings and recommendations. And we've got a few different places to come back and give you information like what staff finishes, what they're doing right now and then we have the consultant so you see the progress and guide the path forward and then of course the grant funding identification for the needs. So what push and I have right now do we have enough knowledge on the grants that are available now like basically like the inflation reduction at grants and things like that, to know that we're collecting the right data to, like if we looked at the grants sort of preemptively to make sure that our analysis is going to match up with the grants needs for analysis, does that make sense? It does make sense. And we haven't done that yet. Right now, we're just getting a huge broad view of what data we have. First. And then, yes, we would definitely be tailoring that more to the grants. And I might ask Sean, I see that level more when we bring on the consultant. Right. That's their eye to that grant. Yeah, I just didn't want to. It's a lot of grant writer. Well, right. And I just didn't want to pay. So there's so many grants. They wouldn't know. Right. I didn't want to pay consultants together data that, you know, we don't need together versus and not gather the stuff we do need, you know what I mean, I'm just trying to see. So, I don't go and we can go. So, yes, yes. I go in this first phase and we do have some budget for this fiscal year in there about 150,000 broken out. We'll see it. That could include a consultant in this first time frame, but this community profile we're trying to create in-house as staff. We're going to see the gaps there, and then we'll be thinking about those grants so that right when we bring that consultant on, we know that gap is there, we know that we need to know the needs before we know which grants might help the need. Exactly. And then, yes, we would want not to spend money on data that's great. Yes, totally agree with that. So we have three phases right now. This community profile phase, the economic and social service assessment and the final report. So the community profile phase is going to be looking like I said at existing data and it's also going to start reaching out to the stakeholders. So we're not putting that off till fiscal year 26, but the social and economic profiles we're going to pull in. We're thinking probably we're going to need help from two consultants or a grouping of consultants to work, you know, when we send out an RFP to say, talk to each other and come to us with the right group that can do projects like this. And we've been looking around at other places. I think it's Hillsboro County did something not quite this big, but maybe a third of this still very broad study about 10 years ago so we're looking at how they pulled in that information and we're looking at some other studies. There aren't very many that have done something with this many things we're trying to address. Those were county lepros that knowledge really well though. And they've got good resources and keep their information so yeah that, that's a good one. Okay, if you'll go to the next. And so in this phase one, like I said, we've got about 150,000 in there that we're guessing. We'll see, we don't need that money for staff. You're already paying staff. We're looking at some software that might be useful for this collecting in the rural areas. It looks kind of promising for people that will get on the internet can fill it out, but you can also, we can go out with a tablet or a computer and talk to people and enter it so that it's all captured in one place and we can see the data from that. But that may or may not happen, but we want to be able to continue looking at that. And then of course, we'll have a lot of materials and things like that. So these are all estimates so you can think about it as you think about your budget for each year. What would consultants do for us that we couldn't use with our local folks from this area? Local people like private living in the area. I mean, the, you know, folks from each of these communities, you know, in terms of what would a consultant do? I guess I'm not clear on what hiring a consultant would do for us. So just to clarify, okay, I'll say one thing I'm gonna ask you a question. Part of what we're doing in this first where staff's gonna go out and then reach out to people, that first kickoff meeting, we're gonna invite the public. Anyone who's interested of course can come and who lives out there and we hope they do, but it's really gonna be a reach out to those nonprofits and those people already working in these areas of need that we know there's a need for to see what we can do with them. Are you talking about those local or are you talking about? Well, as sometimes when you open it up to the community like that, folks will emerge who really have a handle on what's going on and are already professionals in the field maybe who just happened to be living in the community. And I was just thinking it might save, if it could save us some money, by using our local experts who are actually living in those communities, I was just trying to see what a professional consultant could do for us that having our own local folks who have some expertise in that or at least a commitment to the community would actually do. Madam Chair we wanted to make sure that we put budget in so that depending on where they hit in the timeline they had it to start so that you could do the RFP in 25 and then maybe you're fully funding it and we carry forward into 26. But if the budget's not there, we didn't want anything holding up. I got you. Whatever place comes up from. Right. Whatever pops up. I'm sure, Prussia, Playa Chair. I did ask when I made a, you make a really great point and I think that similar and Shawn, maybe this is a great, a big comparison comparison maybe not. But I think when we're now that we're doing the food hub analysis, we know we're doing the feasibility and businessmen, that's a really discrete issue. But that's an example I think where we've built into the RFP that we expect that the community expertise and those community organizations and partners aren't just tapped for their knowledge but that they're a part of the budget that they're provided with some of the funding and also for their expertise and what they're contributing and that they're provided with some of the funding and also for their expertise and what they're contributing and that they're a key part of informing and developing whatever strategies and plans come forward for that. And I think we can hopefully use that as a model as we're kind of thinking about this. This is much broader, that's really focused. But I think to your point, I agree with you. I think we need to be making sure that whatever consultants we hire, I think they keep everybody organized, especially with this many topics, and they sort of help us to coordinate the development of each of those strategies and working with the different nonprofits and community groups that are going to be the experts in that area. But I do think we, you know, from my perspective, and to your point, I think we need to make sure that the money doesn't just leave our community, it's not some expert in an ivory tower that's getting paid all the money, and then coming down and having the community tell them what to do, but that there is some understanding that that funding needs to channel to the organizations and the community groups, they're gonna be providing a lot of that expertise and that information. Also, yeah. information. Well, so fluently. Yeah. But yeah, thank you for bringing that forward. Yeah. Madam Chair, we'll be using our equity guidelines for engagement with the community that was at the forefront and are thinking about how we want to deeply and meaningful engage with these communities to really elevate them. And we've been doing this with both activities that are emerging in the food hub now and our efforts with the US EPA community change grant that we're applying for with our work with the Empower Coalition. So this is also really the kind of the bottom up where you have staff that we were just talking about this today about how important is that you have, you know, our community partners out there which are the neighborhoods where they're actively designing the programming that goes into the formulation of the grant request, how do we structure things? Because they are the experts in the end it's supposed to benefit them, staffed as it come with a prepackaged solution. So that's a, it's an inversion of, I have a bright idea and I'd really like to impose it on you to what you need and what's going on in your life and how can we help you get to where you need to be and that's the spirit with which we approach the methodology of the three of us study great I love the way you said that that was well said and I appreciate that that approach and I am so excited about this study and what I mean this could transform Eastern I mean, this could transform Eastern AllatRa County if we get the study done and are able to access the grant dollars that I are out there right now, and I hope they're still out there in three years. But I did want to ask, as we go through each of these phases and as we collect more and more data, will the data be in the form where if we do have an interim grant opportunity before we're completely finished with this study, will we be able to utilize that data if it's appropriate? Yeah, sure. Hopefully that GIS and data, data and analyst. Yeah, okay. I figured that was the answer, but you know, just wanted to. Yeah, okay. I figured that was the answer. And I just wanted to have a position. And if we did see a grant right now that we're like, we know that's helpful. Then we can write. We can do that now. Excellent. I see those on Consent almost every month. So the new grant manager will be rough. I know. I know. I see these giant, giant grants go into some communities from this infrastructure. I just said it. Inflation reduction. Inflation reduction at grants, and it's like really great projects. So I think our state needs to actually decide they're gonna take some more from the federal government. So, you know, they did that. They did that. They did that this year. They did that this year. They did that this year. You know, we have a lot of new people who are moving into this area to bringing expertise and experience, you know, like the gentleman who came to our meeting from NOAA who worked at NOAA and has just moved over to Nicaragua. I think it was, you know, who was, I mean, we thought folks that are moving into this area all the time and we just need to make sure we know who they are, to find them and get them in place if it all possible. All right. So that's phase one and phase two and phase three actually are kind of together. They're not two separate every year phases. But again, with phase two, that's just gonna be getting even more deep into it and looking at the climate change vulnerability analysis, looking at the climate change plan as we move forward with that and what that show in and we'll be bringing all of that together and the social service needs and economic development assessment will have. I just want to say that just that alone, like just the idea of us actually like taking all our different departments from economic development, social services to environmental protection and looking at all of our plans and overlapping them and then laying them on a geographic area to say how can we make improvement, like that end of it's office is going to be a huge benefit. And all of those departments are in this functional group that's working in the small group and the larger group. It's great. It's more like another fabulous shop. Again, you've got budget. You have to go. The budget that we have in here is just to keep in mind that if we do need experts, even to help the grassroots people in coming up, it may be 400,000. If you're looking at two or three different people to come and help, so that's not for this year, that we would bring that back with more defined purposeful year, 27th. And then in the end, what you'd ask for was, let's do this study, let's figure out what we really need and start working on it by top need and grant funding. And that's the end project that we're looking at. It's tourism developed in this at all because I'm looking at all that water stuff that's out there. We've got an end in the tourism department now. Yeah, it's. It's the economic development. It's kind of one of the same now. The same way we work. department now. Yeah. Yeah. Tourism and economic development are kind of one of the same now. Right. You know, the same way we work on the spring's area. Now we have the surface water, the bodies. Yeah. Surface water bodies that appear that we could work in. And tourism out in those areas like Hop on and Wato are big. I mean, our big steps toward the trail system. But that requires. Yeah. So, yeah. steps toward a trail system. But that requires. That's how we do. Yeah. So, yes. Mr. Porto. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to comment. Are you done, Miss? I'm done. There's a project timeline in here. But Ethan, look at that. We don't really need to go over. It goes out to me 27. I was just going to comment on that and share that really reaffirming what you said that you know we took an idea of policy meeting and kicked it off the staff and they brought back what I think is a great, I mean this is exceeding my expectation to what I was thinking about and understanding staff bringing back this plan. This is really kind of a moment in this county. I mean, this county has never done this on this area. And if you look at our population, that's a great map right there. You know, when you look at the western part of the county, you've got the urban services boundary, which has a lot of the population, but you have three large cities actually four with archer as far as there's city limits that kind of they're kind of all connected and they're kind of doing that. We don't have that on the east side. We it's and and we don't have four lakes on the west side. So this is really taking something that hasn't had the focus for generations really decades and I'm just really really think this is a great start. So thank you for all of the inter-departmental work and the thoughtful, you know, let's just not do a 301 court or let's like, let's like do something that we haven't done before that will be meaningful that will provide the data and analysis for the things that will be able to leverage our money state and nationwide. And I just think it's great. I really, it really is a great output of what, you know, we came up with a policy. Thank you. I guess I just want to point out this and this is more of a political statement is thank you to all of you for all of the work you put into and how seriously you took this in terms of digesting what it could mean for the county and how it could really benefit our long-term planning strategies as well as opportunities for all of our small communities and to input their strategic plans and miracles into this and really become a vibrant part of the next 10 years and 20 years, 50 years, or a lot to county. But I think this is a great example of why at large county commissioners are important. There is no way that we would have gone down this path in a culture of single-member districts. It just wouldn't have even ever happened. So I just want to read your literature, but you're right. It touches the commissioners, but it's like that just the coordination and the collaboration and the concept of economic development and community driven work for the greater good of our county as a whole. Like it takes having people who are thinking about the big picture and the whole county and how all of this pieces play together and I just think that the district type work, it doesn't happen when you, you know, you know, I mean like the big picture thinking often doesn't happen and I think that a project like this probably would never, I don't think it ever would have come. No, I, I don't think it would have ever come. working on it, but what they've done with their CRA, I would say is as good as, you know, any of the others around the county and, you know, all those have their think working too. So we now can take that, incorporate that up to our climate action plan because that's, there's a lot of natural resources out here and then bring in the states 301 economic development, what they're talking about, it really, it's just to Commissioner Friedley's point, it takes a lot of collaboration of a lot of different areas. And it's not just our district, it's state, district, city, and natural resources, all across board. The DOT too, I don't know if you all have included them or not, but that quarter, that 301 is just, I mean, it's exploding with traffic over there. I can attest to that. Yeah, I have to give a shout out, though, to Sherry Crakey from the Hawthorne and the Hawthorne Community Foundation. Oh, I'm so excited. Because she is the one that met with me, and we sat there, and we talked about doing a needs assessment for Hawthorne and then she's like but but really you know it's the whole three oh and corridor and that's when you know I brought it forward because that I mean it made total sense but this was a citizen that had concerned about their community that met with with a commissioner, and we sat down, and that's where this idea came from. She was on fire. She's still on fire. But, you know, and I got some flack from somebody in my district. Why didn't you do this work archery, you know, whatever. But this is, you know, it's making a business in there. Well, initially, I thought it would be a much narrower call or corridor, but this makes total sense to me. But I do want to put a shout out there for, you know, when citizens have good ideas and concerns. They come meet with us because good things come out of it. And this is definitely one of those. And kudos to staff. I mean, I feel like we owe them a huge round of applause at this point because this is just like This is this is so big This was like a surprise We really big and we're excited it really could be good, but just be patient with that It's gonna bring millions of dollars into this county. I am about to out that this is gonna bring millions, millions of dollars. What direction did you need? Just the map. If you want to include this whole area, that's the area in pink. I knew that we include the whole area. I said make two. But also keep in mind too that their hot thorn is, the mayor there is really trying to work with Dr. Brody about getting a center over there. Right. And I talk to Keith Perry about that the other day too and he's also interested now so I'm hoping to get him in. And that's a grand opportunity right there. He's turned out. I know he is and I told him I said we need to work fast because I'm going to be out in two years and you're going out here. That's it. Period turned out. All right. Maybe he can at least poke, you know, even past post. So we have a motion in a second to I assume the motion is to do a three oh one study project in this area on this map, right? Is that all the motion that you need right now? Yes, that's right. Okay. And any further comments or questions from the board? Any public comments to the motion? Any comments? Any comments? Any comments? Any comments? Any comments? Any comments? Any comments? Any comments? Any comments? Any comments? Any comments? Any comments? Any comments? Thank you Madam Chair, Commissioner Staff, my name is Tamra Rodins. Before I make my comment on the exact motion regarding this map, are you going to take any comments on the budget that you discussed earlier? I was planning on taking comments at the end of the discussion, but right now we're just talking about this. Okay, thank you just of the discussion, but right now we're talking about this. Okay, thank you just wanted to clarify. This is impressive. I will say, I listened to the meeting where it originally was hatched. I think it was the chair that brought this up in the citizen and so yeah, this is impressive. My question is, is there going to be an urban services line on this side of the county, like there is on the other, so that if things start happening and not going to be required to roads put in sewer water and all that I don't know so I'm asking is there going to be an urban services line. If I understand the question and tell me I may need you back up here to or you can let me know. So we do have our urban services line on the east side. And it's right. It's kind of the boundary. I don't know if we could pull up a map if you want to see it outside the city of gains. So it goes all the way to New Zealand. It looks like correct. And then down south. Not that I remember where. The other side of the park goes south. Yeah, not that far. We're 13th and we're in a little in road hit kind of. Is it nice? Yeah, kind of across there. That's on in this area. That urban services area is on there. No, but I'm not sure if you have any other questions. Do you want us to pull up the urban services area? So my question, we have the urban services area already on the east side. It's a much smaller area, of course. And it goes north to it, goes outside just north of the Gainesville on that east side, too. Do you mean are we going to put urban services around the cities out there or boundaries? I'm not sure. Thank you for the opportunity to follow up on this. So that helps clarify because I did not know where the urban services line was on the east side. So given the ideas of wanting to do in this portion of the county, which essentially is completely outside of the urban services line, how does that affect the county's obligation for providing urban services? If I could just take a stab at what I think on this is I mean, there's you know, this isn't economic development can mean many, many things and that we've already determined during previous discussions over the last 20 years that so much of this area isn't necessarily appropriate for urban development. But there are other kinds of development that could occur. There's also opportunities for different kinds of development in the cities themselves. That's why those cities are there because they are in the places that are appropriate for people to live. They're not swaps. They're the higher ground. They're the places where people chose together historically. So I don't see an expansion of the urban services line necessarily, but what we might find is we do a study and we find out that there might be a need for that. We just don't know yet. Go ahead, Commissioner Prosea. Yeah, I guess I just wanted to point out, to layer on top of what you're saying. And that's exactly is that the point of the study is to understand what a lot of the impacts of other decision makers, like the 301 and the deepening of ports and the way in which transportation is going to impact us rather we do anything or not so that we can be prepared and so that we can respond. But it's also so that we can think about the opportunities to enhance and connect the dots between our strategicals, things like climate change resilience and economic opportunities through things like tourism, do things like agriculture, things that are already in those areas. What are the assets that we have in those areas? And how do we leverage the assets and strengthen them and support them and enhance them so that they can thrive and provide a better quality of life and opportunity for those people. It's not necessarily saying, like, let's get this space ready to do residential and commercial development. I don't think that that is the intention so I don't I hope that the public understands our goal isn't like let's ready this for developers to come in and start building that isn't the point of this plan. The point of this plan is to say what do we have here? What are our assets? What are our strengths? What are our weaknesses? What are the opportunities? And what are the threats from you know the ex outside coming in that we need to be prepared for so that we can help the eastern side of our county, which is historically had issues with economic development and their thriving opportunities and access to resources to have those access to resources. And then what they have? Swarmals. Yeah. And Madam Chair, if I could, I think it's important that we explain what the Urban Services Line means, because it isn't, we're required to provide urban services. If it's within that, that's not what the Urban Services Line is. So it might be helpful to explain that, because we provide services county-wide when the unincorporated area and some things in the incorporated areas as well for example like fire rescue so it's it's about where you can where growth is encouraged but for that allows the extension of water sewer and utilities and things like that to encourage the higher density growth in those areas. Right, we used to have two lines. We had an urban services line that was different than our urban cluster line. It's really an urban cluster line now, not an urban services line. And that's where, like the manager said, we encourage growth inside that because you have water and sewer. The original urban services line, the reason there were two way back when was because that is where water and sewer. The original urban services line the reason there were two way back when was because that is where water and sewer stopped and then there were some gaps but we still knew that those gaps we would encourage denser development all the way out to that line to keep the rest pristine. If Jeff just reminded me these cities provide their own water and sewer and power different power companies, of course, in the county. And if we were to have an economic development opportunity that was outside of a city, not in the city limits already, they can annex if it's appropriate, but you also have to remember and the people we've already started talking to, this is a rural area and the people live there for that reason. But that doesn't mean they don't want to be able to access food or the doctor or things like that. So it's as Commissioner Prasya kind of summarized, we're looking at what the need is. And economic development is one, but not necessarily thinking like you would think downtown Gainesville or in our industrial parks. Unless they have the appropriate space like Hopper and has industrial land. Right, yeah, the old GP site or things like that. There's opportunities there that could be utilized. So thank you, that's an excellent explanation. Glad we clarified that. We're not looking to say that's a developed and entire decided accounting. I would say one thing I did want to bring up is one comment I wanted to make, if that's a pay-mom chair, is just that I do think that even though, from that broad county perspective, even though this map is isolated to that side, I do hope that we'll involve stakeholders from the other cities, like giving the presenting this at the League of Cities, talking about it because I do think there are opportunities for those other cities around our county to also think about this as a strategic opportunity and be thinking about what's happening in those areas like this is you know the stuff that's happening along that three or one quarter It's going to impact the whole county. It's not just going to impact the city that are along that three or one quarter and this study is going to have an opportunity for us to identify things that may be not a fit for this area, but they might be fit for this other place. So keeping them plugged in and involved and having this be sort of a county-wide initiative, I think is important. Yeah, it's start to Bradford County and relock in, you know, all of those places could definitely benefit from this exact. So just making sure that when we have that stakeholder list that you know at our joint meetings next year we can present this is something that we're doing You know with more emphasis obviously in the cities where it makes sense but making sure that everybody is aware and invited to Those stakeholder meetings so that they can be plugged into the extent that they want to and learn about opportunities that exist Mary and Kelly meeting that we're gonna have and even Brad for a part of kind of meetings We should kind of put this on that agenda if we have those meetings. Yeah, I think. It's very an American-cali meeting that we're going to have and even the Bradford and Puttin' kind of meetings. We should kind of put this on that agenda as we have those meetings. Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Really good idea. Okay. Thank you. Let's just make a wish for you. Madam Chair, that ends the budget portion for today. Your next meeting is August 15th at 10 a.m. Yeah, we do have a motion to vote on. Oh, that's okay. All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. Any pose. All right. Well, we have a 301 study project. So this is so exciting. I am just thrilled with this. You just don't know how. So I am going to take brief public comment on the budget development review. So if there's anyone in the public that would like to speak to the the budget portion that we have just concluded. Thank you. That's such a good job. Time to take a vacation. Thank you Madam Chair, Commissioner Staff, my name is Chamber Robbins. Appreciate the presentation on the budget. I just made some notes that I'd like to, I'd like clarification at some point on what the bronze specialist actually is somebody to clean the sculptures And I'd like to wait until it's my time. We all pay a fire fee, right? That's countywide I'd like to see that there's some emphasis put on making sure the fire hydrants are cleaned City, Velachua for example, they don't clean off their fire hydrants. I could show you pictures with a light gun. You can't even see it. And it's in the foliage. So I think fire hydrant identifying in location is important. For the lighting at Cusca Willa, I would say I'd like you to be specific and not allow Duke Energy to install parking lights that you make sure that the county owns those lights and it's solar. So please be clear about that. I do have a concern of what I heard was true that there's tracking of visitors at our parks with cell phone data. Seriously? Wow. That is very troubling to me when county government is tracking numbers. Okay, I don't know who's doing it. It came here saying that the county government is gathering data on visitors to the parks. So if I heard that wrong, then I hope I did. I would really like to see that you make sure there's some money targeted to provide cuts for all of the emergency shelters in this county. And it's not just for special needs and it's not just for staff at the center down there that all people who show up at an emergency shelter have a cot. The special needs shelters, it's advertised that the person who has special needs has a cot, but their caretaker doesn't. Really? We cannot buy a bunch of c cops and make sure that there are cops for people to be off the floor during an emergency. We're leaving their home. I think you should note where the sources of the revenue are coming from when you're giving when there's presentations like this, not just make a follow-up like, oh, it's not all coming out of the general fund. Where's it coming from? Make sure we know. Is the code department, is it complaint driven? And do you take anonymous complaints? The over at West End when they were clearing that over there, tore up all the concrete that was existing there, took down all the poles, saw them up through them in a dumpster. I don't understand that. Those Creosel-treated poles out there are perfect for farmers to build and especially corner posts on their fencing. And they were sought up and threw in a dumpster. I saw them. Right? There's concrete laid that could have been used for a tent or parking or something. Why is it starting tearing it all up and then starting fresh? It's like completely opposite of reduced reuse and reclaim the whole concept. Metalbook Graph Horse, somebody mentioned that about 39th. I hope you'll give me 30 more seconds to finish. What is going on at Metalbook? I don't see any special game golfing going over there. It's all overgrown and just like it was before. I think that we are moving into more general public comment that would go at the end of the meeting instead of commenting on the budget. Well, it was brought up during the flooding discussion. So I'm only following about that's something that was mentioned during the discussion of the budget portion, Madam Chair. one final comment as the eco loop was mentioned about whether you guys were gonna get a presentation on the composting facility out there, I think that's what it was, right? I'm not sure about their photograph on composting food, is that not it? I thought that's what you asked us. Okay, he didn't say what it was out loud, so. Thank you. All right, thank you Ms. Robin. Is any further public comment? All right. Madam Chair, do you want me to respond? If you could, that would be helpful. Thank you. So the bronze specialist essentially we have a lot of statues that have been purchased through our arts program, art and public spaces that are require special cleaning and to date we have been doing that in-house and actually miss people's this out there a lot of times scrubbing herself with those statues to keep them nice. We have so many now it is a to to maintain that this allows us to hire somebody to maintain all those in good condition. Is it a person who will be staff member member or are they a set of contract? It's a contract. It'll be a contract to maintain those and keep them nice. The hydrants is not an issue in this budget. The hydrants are through its fire rescue that maintains hydrants, not public works, this month for moon wants to jump up and tell me otherwise. I believe that's all fire rescue. The code complaints, we cannot take anonymous complaints. That's a state statute. We can only take complaints from people who provide their information. There are some exceptions in statute to that, but outside of those exceptions, we are unable to take anonymous complaints. And we are complaint driven. We are complaint driven. Frankly, I don't know how we... That's good. Yeah, there's some limited exception, like I said in there, but we are complaint driven and we cannot take anonymous complaints. Um, I'm out there, I mean, I do, I mean, that's part of the reason for the education and outreach program that they're going to work on. And that is because we are complaint driven to help educate people who may not know what their rights and opportunities are and what the codes are to do a better job of educating about those so that if there is an issue, they know to complain because some people, especially with power, differentials and things like rental housing, people don't always know. So the idea is to do a better job of educating about our codes and rights and then people will know to complain if they have an issue. Right. Tracking visitors, it's really data on our tourist talks and we don't track people by name. We don't track It's just data that's obtained By that data. We're not doing anybody correct. It's it's data that we buy that that track certain information But it's not personal information or people's names or anything like that I know we've heard cuts about cats and e-m shelters in the past. It's a quite pricey thing for a limited amount of time. I'm happy to look at that and the storage of them. Frankly, we don't own cuts for our emergency shelter. We borrow them when we need them for our overnight. Unfortunately, overnight stays such as the other night, we borrow those cuts. And West End, that'd be something I'd let them address as far as the why, because they were out there assessing conditions if the board wants to hear from them, as to why that, you know, they chose to do certain things. I know the condition of a lot of that stuff was quite poor, but we are leaving other things up that I know we've already determined can be still utilized. I would guess that the concrete was recycled, not on site, but recycled because it's so heavy that's what almost always happens. And in terms of the crease that covered posts, those come with significant liability. And if I were an attorney, I would, we don't know when those were made, what chemicals were used to treat the wood. And Metabrucacors is privately owned. I know that we've had some code complaints that we've dealt with. But it's been a while since we've done. Yeah, I'm especially busy. Yeah, I guess I just want to say quickly, yeah, on the data, it's data we buy and it's data that the cell phone providers are providing to marketing companies all over the country is. But I did want to say, I was asking about the bulky waist, not compost. I was asking about like, debris, like, couches and when people move out all the stuff that gets left on the side of the road, that kind of thing, the stuff that repurposed project tends to deal in. That's what I was asking about, not compost, although it would be great to get a composting update at some point as we move forward into that contract further. And then the last piece is, I guess on the, I'm not necessarily interested in hearing specifics about Western right now, but I would love to just encourage, I mean, I think that they do, and I know that our parks, I mean, even with our budgets being so limited, we always try to recycle what we can, but to just remember our zero waste goals and our climate action goals as we're thinking about renovation of parks and reuse of materials. And if we can't reuse it, I think now there is a new renovator reuse space in partnership with Repurpose and perhaps Gus could connect parks and they could come out and do assessments if there are things that they could deconstruct or reuse. They may be able to take them prior to us. And if that's something we need a contract for deconstruction, maybe it's something we look into, but that would be opportunities as we're doing any renovations or construction of both parks, but also just our buildings and facilities once we get into more of the dosido plan, we can think about that as something we could look at. So I would just encourage us to think about that and maybe Gus could chat with facilities, folks and parks, folks about that. And Missy wanted me to let you all know that that middlebrook is actually coming to the Magistrate for a second time. I believe next month, you said? Next month. And I can get that to you. I'm code violations. I can't bring up the deconstruction the de-consortment of regular meeting too. Sort of more of a... All right. Thank you. And so we'll move on to our next item, which actually is what's done. All right. Good afternoon. Gina Peoples, Assistant County Manager, Chief of Staff. I did want to point out that this meeting was originally supposed to be on Tuesday. And so whenever the agenda item was transferred to today, the fiscal impact did not transfer over properly as well as an attachment. So that has been corrected on the public facing website. But I just wanted to bring that to your attention. So the items before you allow us to piggyback with World Sports Turf to laser grade the fields. And then that those would also be able to be used for multipurpose fields in the future as well as the World Master's event. So, welcome, Jason. And geosurfaces, designs, and installs the throwing event pads to meet international certification requirements. They also provide the portable safety cages. So that's the first item on the recommended action is to request the ability to piggyback. We're also asking you to delegate the remaining $173,000 to the county manager as her authority is up to 50,000 and time is incredibly short to get everything in place for this event. And so we are asking that you allow the manager to have that authority for the items that you already approved back on your July 9th meeting. And then we are also requesting approval of a special pay because we needed Skidsteer out at the West End property, but it exceeded the $3,500 purchasing threshold. So that was something that we needed to bring back to the board. Well, I have Ramon and Jason here. I'd like to publicly recognize them in their staff because if you've been by West End, night and day different. It was a night and day difference. That's several comments from citizens about it. Yeah, so I'm so grateful to both of their staffs for all of the hard work that they've done. And just as a public service announcement, we have our community engagement meeting next Tuesday at 6 p.m. at the extension auditorium. I'm sorry, 6.30, thank you, Ed. So that is coming up very quickly. And then we hope to bring back the results of those meetings, that meeting in September to the board. So without we're here to answer your questions. Do we have any questions? I have several. I'm going to start with the use of Roundup to kill existing grass and weeds. Why are we using Roundup? That's what the vendor, that's their preferred method method to you have to kill what's there before they can come in and laser grade it and unfortunately that's it's just kind of how the industry standard but it's not it's the best standard. Not the best standard however that's just in this case in time frame that's the quickest method to do that. Can I just say I think that what the I mean I understand that herbicide may be necessary because they method to do that. Can I get a bit of please, please? I just say, I think that what the, I mean, I understand that herbicide may be necessary because they need to do it quickly, but they can use herbicides that are more targeted at specific, like there's, we, there's, we killers that are specifically for grasses, for example, that will do, actually do a better job of killing grasses and aren't roundup. So I think we've just seen glyphosate has a long half-life and it tends to cause a lot of challenges for people's health. So people are really worried about it and concerned about it. So I was just asking the future for using herbicides to ask our vendors to please use herbicides that are targeted for the weed they're trying to kill instead of just broad spectrum herbicides that are meant to kill whatever. And we can still bring that up to them to see if there's a quick alternative that we can say. Yeah, 30 years ago we would prefer that we really prefer you to use this versus what you can't do. Yeah, I can provide some also less and just less toxic alternative. Yes, Neil from Polo Works, he would be our source to go to for an alternative that would be more ego friendly. Yeah, if we could do anything better there, that was a question. And then I wasn't clear on reading the proposal. Are they putting in, I know they're putting in some artificial turf in the area where they're throwing. Is the rest of it going to be natural grass? How much an artificial turf are we actually using? For my understanding, there's not artificial turf. It's going to be like they pave and then it's like a rubberized surface over top and it's got to meet like really strict criteria. So that's the only area that they're going to be doing that. The rest is going to be grass. So like when we say get done laser grading, they're going to be doing that, the rest is going to be grass. So like when we say get done laser grading it's going to be hydriceted. So 98% of it's going to be natural grass. So it would just be those throwing areas and then the runway for the javelin will be the only thing that they permanently install. Is there an I didn't see anything in here about what grass they would be putting in or. So we missed the window for Bahia was which we were originally going to try but it's going to be dormant so now it's going to be through Mido which is basically the same turf grass we have at all our athletic fields and that also opens the door to if we're going to be using these as multi-purpose field athletic fields when we're not having athletic events so we can have soccer. It's going to be the same grass that we use and it's going to meet the same standards. So I guess if we're going out there and we're scraping and then we're leveling and then we're putting down turf, I'm wondering how much need for chemical there actually is. You know, I can ask that question because if we can just, if we're going to be scraping it off anyway, then I agree. I don't really necessarily think you need to kill the grass I think it's more when we come in like when we did Jonesville the soccer fields you have to kill the existing grass first because you're putting new sod over that so I do understand where that makes sense but in this case we can ask the contractor if they can forego that step and we'd be perfectly happy to do that. Yeah that that'll be great. I appreciate that a lot. Is that also reduced at cost? Probably not. It's the opposite. It probably not. I had one more page 104, which is page 5 of the Adendum Agreement between the Electric County and Geo Services under prevailing wage. I thought that this had been preempted by the governor. Just two weeks. Madam Chair, we still have that in our ordinances. The bill says that it goes into effect, I think, January. Oh, okay, it's not already in effect. It's in effect. Well, the bill is in effect, but the prevention doesn't go into effect until January 26. Okay, good. And I hope this just moves into our point system versus just going away. But, Madam Chair, I think existing contracts, it won't. It won't impact. Okay, all right, good. Just wanted to make sure we were on top of it. I feel like it Anybody else any other questions? No, just a thank you for West End So we do need people who are really excited. Yeah, we do need um three Well, if you could uh, I need a motion. I'm moved to that recommendation. Okay. Okay. Would you like to split it? Yeah. All right. Please. Just when you got about that, I'm just going to split the out. All right. So we're, so you're asking that the each action item be a separate vote. Yeah. Okay. Is the maker of the motion okay be a separate vote. Okay. Is the maker of the motion okay with that? Yes. Okay. Public comment on the motion. Which one's the motion? Staff recommendation. So number one is up. Is the separate motions or one motion? Recipient. One motion broken into three parts. So how much time do you person get to speak on the screen? Three minutes. Three minutes. Three minutes. Okay. One motion broken into three parts. So how much time do you get to speed up the car? Three minutes. Three minutes. Okay. Yeah, that doesn't really make any sense. So I appreciate the bringing up of the problem with Roundup. I mean, I about lost it when I saw that a Lachua County was going to allow nine acres is it to be double-dosed with Roundup, total kill. I mean, that is mind-blowing. That stuff is so dangerous. And I don't understand why you don't mow the exists. There's already grass there. It's got weeds in it. It's been left neglected. Mow it, do site-specific weed maintenance and then overseed in October with winter rye. And then you have the most beautiful green turf in the spring for this event. To go and spend over $100,000 to do an environmental disaster attack for this time as of the essence thing is ridiculous. Moe what you have and overseed with ryegrass and moe it. I mean I just can't believe you would even consider it and to go oh well we'll ask the vendor. What do you mean ask the vendor? Do you guys not know what you don't have maintenance people? You do. This county is well staffed with people that can mo the existing facility and oversee in the fall. It's like a couple grand for Ricey to cover that whole acreage. And then you just mo it. And then in the springtime, I don't know of it. I'd like to see, I don't know why there's never any visuals of what this whole facility. It's like, oh, there's a runway, there's this, there's that. Why don't we ever get any visuals of what is this European specifically have to be certified facility that's going to cost $365,000 that we don't get any visuals. It's just like, oh, well, the rest of it's this. And then there's that. And there's a runway. And then there's these safety cages. Where's the visual? Why aren't we seeing? Why aren't we seeing? I want to see what we're paying for. But I say take a separate vote. No to round up come up with a plan. And this staff can do it in-house. They are capable. You have the equipment to moate, do site-specific weed maintenance, and then you overseed in the winter with winter rye and it is beautiful. And when you have the time and you don't have to be of this urgency and under some European standards, then you can decide what the community wants to do without the area. Maybe the community doesn't want that. Maybe they want trees and they want to disc golf area. You guys are already setting the agenda. You're supposed to be having a community meeting that's going to decide what the areas are going to be. Don't poison the community seriously. And to Commissioner Priszi is idea of vinegar, does work on weeds, but it also kills the worms. So it does. But the best thing is cardboard mulch, but I know it's too big of an area to do that. But don't kill what's already there. Maintain what's already there. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Romans. All right. I'm sure you've done it. Well, for a while, I am adamantly against Roundup. I don't use it up in my house. It's just bad. It's really bad. So yeah, if we can do this, let's run it up. I'm all in favor of that. I'll vote for one because anytime we can pick you back, of course, I just can't vote for two and three because I voted against this thing when we approved it. Can we modify the motion to ask that they exclude Roundup as an option? Do you want to modify them? Come up with a different plan. I do say that I do think that from the like Moa and whatever, like I oftentimes there needs to be specific turf because it also has to be uniform and flat and so I understand the need to like seed it so that it's uniform and flat and it also has to be a heavy like a heavy traffic type grass, which unfortunately, rye grass is beautiful, but it isn't very high traffic. It doesn't go past either. That's so fast. Just to clarify, the current, old driving range is very unlevel. It's sloped on it. So for this event, we have to come and grade it anyway. So they don't need to spread. So again, yes, I think we can find out, get away from the roundup, but we do have to move dirt and all that. So just mowing what's there, it isn't really an option for that, but it's great suggestions that we could look at when, especially for future uses, but that grading has to happen. And then we'll have to do the seeding. So. Well, we would ask, I guess, for, I would do number one, but add the non-urbicide option for number one. And the hydropheating includes raw iron millet depending on your type of beauty. So it, so on number one, you approve the piggyback and instruct the vendor not to use your own. Yeah, our not to use your own. Yeah, our aunties are beside. Or a website. Yeah. Is that possible? We'll just tell them that's not an option. Yeah, not our design option. I was supposed to put that. Are you okay with the bottom five motion? Yes. Yes. Around the perversive. Okay. All right. And so the rest of them that I'd like to hear. So I never I never approve the member of the disc and the javelin. The use of I see I see. Okay. Gotcha. And then the special pay for the skid steer rental. That's number three. That's number three parks. Will that be used for parks in general? That's good. Is it going to stay at Weston? What is it? No, it was a rental to do the initial cleanup and the staff got over to us and they basically rented it and didn't get the PO version. So that's what that's. So we're just we're paying for a little mistake on our part. Yes, just break out to. Okay, just break out two. Okay, just break out two. All right. All right, is everyone ready to vote? Do we have any more comments? All right. With the modification. With the modifications of a no one. Okay. So the first item would be all in favor of items one and three under the recommended action with the change that there will be no herbicides utilized during the site work. Yes. All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Second part of the motion is item two under the recommended actions. All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. Any aye. Aye. Any opposed? Aye. Okay, so we have the three part motion or two part motion with a unanimous on items one and three and under item two we had one in the against which is commissioner Cornell. Okay, awesome. We are now down to tree protection in developments. Thank you all for your patience with this double-dating. I'm trying to remember the most and stuff I've ever had. So I played the shit so long. Hey, I know that person. Can you tell me, should you commission your iron or sussoria? I'm not gotten out to see those things. Okay, the shielding, you can. I just feel bad because I knew that important was needed. Okay, she'll bring you in. I just feel bad because I need to work that was good. Okay, first to see it. I don't think this is a last conversation. Good. Well, no. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a third-dermat. I am reading your book though. Good. Good. So I'm going to say Madam Chair, but Madam Chair. Let's go back on the bottom. Vice Chair. Thank you. Jeff Hayes. Are we ready? Yes. Okay. Jeff Hayes, Latria County Growth Management Director. We have staff. We have Jessica Hong, our far-served landscape inspector and Christine Barish from Earth Management. We have WAPD staff here as well to answer questions on this item. But I thought I would give the overview of the item basically in terms of the big picture with our code and to follow up on the board's direction. This is following up on two motions, two board directions from June 11th. We had a preliminary development plan for the Parker Road cottages. And at that meeting, the board asked there were several trees that were going to be, or proposed, or potentially could be removed to purge that plan approval. And the board asked for staff to look at ways that additional trees could be saved in developments. And what code changes could affect that. And then additionally followed up on June 25th to request that we have this workshop today. I thought I would start off sort of the big picture in what we have in the county when it comes to natural resource protections. And these are not all of them, but sort of this is a descending list from sort of our most protective areas so that our strategic ecosystems and those are areas that are already pre-mapped on properties where up to 50% of the upland portion of those properties may be preserved as part of the development approval or a special area study approval. Of course, we have surface water and wetlands regulations and in most cases very rarely do we allow impacts to wetlands and even when we do their mitigation required. Most often we avoid any impact to wetlands. We have significant habitat protections, as well as listed species protections, and those are when those are found on properties, either listed species are found, or significant habitat is identified by EPD staff on those properties, no more than 25% or at least up to 25% of the upland portion of a parcel may be retained in a development scenario. We also have significant geologic features which requires that the feature in the buff end and buffer typically 75 feet be preserved. On all development proposals we have an open space requirement so any of those categories above would be a conservation management area. And then if those kind of resources are not on the properties, we have 10% of the pervious area set aside. And we'll get into that a little bit that how that relates to tree preservation later in the presentation. And then of course, we have tree preservation. And so we have standards for that. That's what we'll spend most of this afternoon talking about. We have some other requirements in specific areas. So we have special area studies like Cross Creek and Ida Wilde, which have their own tree protection standards. And then sort of the real big picture for environmental preservation courses, we have our urban cluster boundary. And that's where we're protecting agricultural and rural resources as well as natural resources by our density provisions inside and outside the urban cluster. Just a real brief description. So the purpose of today's presentation really is to give the board an overview of our regulations as they stand and then to have a discussion and take any direction you have on changes that you would like us to pursue. So one of the things I mentioned in the previous slide was our open space regulations. This is actually a development plan. This is Terra Vista, it's a preliminary development plan. You saw sort of north of archer road sort of near W elementary. And you can see here, this is an area actually where the tree canopy preservation area, you can see here on this sort of southeast portion of the property and the open space requirements coincided. And that's not the case on every development project, but it was on this one. So as I said, we have to provide at least 10% of open space on every development. Those are first fulfilled with conservation areas such as significant habitat, wetlands, things of that nature. The one big, one issue that you know, details and gets into the design of the projects is that we have very specific open space requirements that it's one piece of contiguous land at the periphery of the development to allow for connection to adjacent open spaces. And when that works, that's, it has some examples of that working and it's been very good. There are some exceptions to that, but by and large, that is the requirement. It sometimes works out that that's not always coincident with where the best tree canopy is. So those two regulations sometimes work together, sometimes they're two separate areas. So there's something to keep in mind. I won't go through this. I hope we change commission. Since we're talking about that, I hope we give staff flexibility to protect the trees. Working here, yeah. Why can't you hear me? Because you're not close to your mic, do you? So, commissioners, that's one thing I hope when we get to this discussion that we focus in on giving staff some flexibility. Because if we protect this open space and then we mow down the trees across the way, are we really accomplishing what our comprehensive plan is asking? Okay. And Madam Chair, we do have policies that relate to vegetation management and tree preservation. I won't read these for you. I will pause here on policy 5.4.3 because it actually, a lot of our code is built sort of on this policy in terms of our actual tree preservation code in chapter 406 of our land development code. And the key points are is that we will have a species specific hierarchy that we, the trees will receive priority for protection based on species and conjunction with other features, including size, age, condition, historic association, and uniqueness. We won't allow the removal of champion trees and designated specimen trees shall be avoided or mitigated damage cannot be avoided. So that's sort of the basic policy in the comprehensive plan that sets up our land development code in chapter 406. So as I mentioned, our land development code chapter 406 article two is where we have the bulk of our tree protection. We also have some landscaping requirements in Chapter 407. But the Chapter 406 Article 2, and this kind of goes through the high points and bullet points of how we protect trees and new development projects. So for development, the basic standard for developments is that 20% of the existing tree canopy at the time of the request for development comes in or the most recent area of the development. 20% of that area has to be retained in the development approval. One thing to keep in mind is that is not 20% of the parcel size, that is 20% of what exists on the parcel. So if you have a parcel that's 90% pasture and there's a small bit of trees, it's 20% of the area that's of the other 10%. Exactly. And we'll see that on some of the examples I have later. It's 20 percent of tree camping, not 20 percent of the parcel. Yes, yeah. So that standard actually reduces so a number of years ago when we were adopting things like, Urban Cluster Standards for development, that's where you start to see if you reach for a residential development, if you reach 90% of your gross density for the project, you're meeting the gross density up to 90% of the land use. You retain 10% of the existing tree canopy. And that reduces further for TNDs and TODs and cottage neighborhoods and affordable housing Projects goes down to 5% Is that all inside the urban cluster? All of those developments are allowed inside the urban cluster. Yes That was the grand The other standard that that comes up when we when it comes to tree protection is something we adopted. So we did a revision to this code in year 2020. And one of the new standards that we adopted looking at, you know, retaining large, especially live oak trees, was that 60-inch trees must be retained unless development cannot occur anywhere else on the site or removal is unavoidable. And by and large, in the development of Proofles, I think there's only one 60-inch tree I can think of that the board has permitted to be removed in the time since we adopted that code and the rest of it had been retained. And that was because it was a roadway There was no other location that the roadway could exist on the property And at that meeting I remember the applicant step forward and said I'll save all these other ones If that's the one I'm thinking yes, it's bring no spring no spring no preliminary development Yeah, and on the phone, I don't know if you all remember that meeting. I do remember that. Yeah. Okay, so that was the one exception ever because they were saying we can't do it and we said, so I almost think they say comma with more approval. I mean, I guess that's obvious. But that decision should be argued publicly as to why it can't be done. And then, as opposed to at the SAP level, when we get to that level, it might be. I think it is. I'm good with that. The on the down. Well, I think it is right now, right, Jeff? Jeff? It's not its own threshold. So for instance, if we had a development that was a 10 unit development that was going to the DRC, the DRC would be making that determination. So if that's the standard we would want to have, we would need to make a revision to do that. Right. That one's a lot more. And also, we sometimes have public projects. Public works projects, we have road projects that as well, where there might be, you know, so, which might not need a development approval at all, but would be looking to remove a tree, parks project, things like that, so that's anything to make sure. So, if I could, I'm sure, in a power staff, right? Cause then, that says, look, that tree is there. It's literally there. And I know you're saying it has to be removed, but you have to argue that to the commissioner. So make sure you've gone through your arguments because that's just a power. Yeah, whereas, okay, sorry. So these are just a few examples to show you how some developments have been approved. On the left hand side of the screen is the Park Avenue development at 39th Avenue, a 3rd street. The best trees that, and we'll get into the hierarchy of trees is one of the slides coming up. But the trees that were required to be retained, actually, were in this block of apartments. We have gallery comments right here. It's really distracting. And then there were some additional trees retained in the buffer. These were not ones that were identified as being a particular high quality. And actually there's some familiar up on 39th Avenue. There's some some trees. In those trees, you know, we allowed impacts into the drip line. So that's another issue because those were beyond the percentage that was required. And so that's, I know, one beyond the percentage that was required. And so that's, I know, one of the issues that comes up quite often and came up when we were discussing this project to the right, which is the Parker Road Cottage Neighborhood development that you saw in June. This had 160 inch tree that was being retained in the center of the projects, but there were several also relatively large over 50-inch live-oaks that were potentially slated for removal or weren't required to be retained in the preliminary. And I actually think the representative for that development is here. They could speak to that maybe when it gets to public comment what they're doing going forward with that project. I think they're trying to say four. I guess I just can I just well we're on this side. I think that one of the things that as we have these conversations going forward is really this this is kind of a critical piece of this and in having dialogues with developers about previous projects and talking with staff and in doing my own homework about previous projects and talking with staff and in doing my own homework, I think that one of the things that we need to look at are those drip line requirements because what's happening is because of our drip line requirements, they eat in to all the development, trying to fit all the things that we require or the stormwater and the open space and the trees that they can't figure out how to have no drip line impacts. So, they show that they're destroying the trees. And half the time, they're not actually destroying the trees. The trees are being retained because they're actually a amenity or an asset to the development, but they don't want to say that they're protecting them. Because if they say they're protecting them, they have to protect them with zero drip line impacts. And so, you know, I don't want to say that we should have dripline impacts because these are living creatures and they need the same, they need space to live just like we all need space to live. But I do think we need to think about as we're having these conversations, like that's one of the pieces I think we need to bring in is the science of that and where what are those dripline impacts and is it the difference between some dripline impacts or minor ones like a sidewalk or a small area of impact versus like we're paving over the whole thing we want to put in tree wells, you know, like I think we need to think about that in a little bit more nuanced way to give staff that flexibility you're talking about so that more trees can be protected while also being creative about the way that the development gets set up. Mr. Cormon? Thank you, Moucher. I completely agree, Commissioner. I was gonna ask staff, I think the origin of this came with Commissioner Byrley getting really upset about a orange plastic fence around a protected tree. And we just said, you know what guys? I mean, that's what I think that if you're gonna do this, protect a tree and we just said you know what guys I mean that that's what I think that if you're gonna do this protect the tree and then what we've seen lately is you know we're putting up bencing we're protecting the tree I guess my question of her staff is is if we gave flexibility to staff could they depending on the species identify kind of the two phases of Durant construction, this is very protective, and then this is the impact that you can go within that dripline maybe for a sidewalk or maybe for a parking space. I mean, I, you know, the best parking lots in the last volcano are the ones with trees. When you go into a parking lot, what do you do? Where's the shape? So, you know, they're building trees into a parking lot, what do you do? Where's the shade? So they're building trees with parking lots, with dripline impacts for our public to find shade. So I like exactly what you said. Well, they're cutting down existing trees and then planting trees because they don't want to have to have dripline impacts. So we need to think about that. Yes. And I know in other areas around the state I've been communicating with staff, you know, some pictures about some developments where there's big, big trees, you know. And I think from staff said to me, you know, the fear here is that you save the tree but because of the impact that dies in two years. And so I'm interested in hearing staff's recommendations on, we have to make sure that it's we don't kill the tree But that we have flexibility for providing some impacts to the trip line to preserve the key I think that's something like I mean maybe they have to but I feel like something we're gonna have to like Well look at like ask them to look at the science and bring back some of the nations Yes, I just a cahong senior forester. I just wanted to clarify that they are allowed to impact within the drip line for anything beyond the minimum. So we are always seeing at least the minimum protected beyond the minimum canopy requirements. So like if your canopy requirements are 20%, whatever is in the 20% has to be protected to either the drip line or potentially two feet diameter per inch diameter. Sorry, that's always such a weird thing to say. So whatever the minimum requirements are to protect those trees. Anything beyond that, so if they had, if they wanted to save more trees but had to impact them, they still can. They wanted a 25% canopy, they could do impact on about 5% of drippling. Right. There is a reduced mitigation, so they still have to mitigate for those trees. That's what they're asking for. It has to be a combination of the mitigation. They have to mitigate for them so they lose their incentive for saving them so they've had to pay this whole amount. My question is, can we put the tree survival on the contractor and say, how long will this tree live? the contractor, you know, and say, all right, you know, how long will this treat, my question is how long, you know, what is the effect of tree stress is that, you know, I know that if they're really stressed, they do die in a couple of years, but they could be partially stressed, make them more, you know, susceptible to disease and they die in 20 years, and we don't, you know, we have a 500-year oak tree that dies in 20 years. Like, you know, it's just, I don't, you know what I'm saying? It's a hard thing. And that's, this standard came, I think, originated, like 15 years ago with lead for cities and lead for development when they put this drip wine requirement on the US Green Building Council, put it on lead certifications a long time ago. And they were super strict about it. Like they didn't want contractors parking under trees. They didn't want anything to happen within the drip line of the tree. And they have it wavered on that. And it's for that reason. If it's a 500 year oak tree, do we, you know, and we do it, allow something, it lowers that resistance to the treated disease and they die sooner than it would otherwise. So it's a hard question. It really is. I like the idea putting it on the contractor, but we just have to know we're taking a risk. We do that. Well, I just want to be clear that when I talk about drippling impacts I'm talking about trees over there, the ones that we wanted them to protect that weren't the- Yeah, over the six inches. Over this, that is going to be smaller, yes. Right, no, but I'm talking about the ones that were- It's not, yes, over the six inches. But also the ones that are outside of their open space requirements or outside of their tree canopy requirements. Jessica said they can now each have to mitigate. You thought I'd be more flexible of indication? Being more flexible, well, I think we just, I'm not talking about anything in particular. I don't have any recommendations today. I didn't come today for parent to make decisions and recommendations. I came today to listen to staff I'm hoping that we don't make any major decisions today because in my opinion, we have an EAR coming and we have a climate action plan coming, both of which are going to talk about trees. And they're also going to talk about overall our development standards. And I think that when we have these conversations, we also need to be thinking about our storm water requirements. And we also need to think about open space requirements. All these things are tied up together. And my concern is you do one thing and you create like a cascade effect, you know. And so I would like the opportunity to hear what they have to say with us. Think about it. Ask them to bring back more data and information based on the things we're interested in and potential recommendations as a part of the overall conversations about how do we balance all of our priorities, right? We know trees are a major priority for us and for our county and our residents as a whole. We also know that stormwater protection and with climate change, the issues of storms is really important, but maybe ours is over the top, maybe not. I don't know, we need to have that conversation like, but all those things go together, right? Because at the end of the day, the goal is, protect as much as we can of our natural resources while also allowing people to exercise their private property rights and develop. No, I hear what you're saying. That's why there's a workshop. Right. And that's why there's a workshop. The workshop is for us to kind of hear each other's ideas. My question to you was, is, and maybe I haven't thought the student yet, but what I didn't realize, what Jessica just said, we already allow for dripling impacts over the, called the 20% threshold. We just require them to mitigate those. Are you saying you want to eliminate that medication? Or you're not sure you want to get any effects? Because I originally was, I want to be flexible with dripline if they can guarantee the tree won't die. Like that's where I am. And if they can't, then it defaults to well, then you can't impact it. If they can, then it defaults to will, if it doesn't, you pay. That's where I am on that particular issue. I guess I feel like we're trying to protect more trees if our goal is to protect more. And I can't wait to hear what the folks that are here have to say about it, but I would like to hear from hopefully from more stakeholders with this. But I do think that we're gonna have, we have to find some flexibility somewhere. And we have to find that flexibility, both for staff for dribbling impacts and potential mitigation so that we get them to save more trees. Because the reason they're not saving trees right now is because they can't have any impacts or else they have to mitigate for it. And they don't want to pay mitigation on trees that they're protecting. They're spending the time protecting them. They're spending the time protecting them. And maybe we have some kind of monitoring. Maybe we use all those mitigation funds. We have sitting there that aren't paying them. Yeah, maybe we use them to hire somebody who can do monitoring of trees and developments that are said they're going to be protected. I don't know what the answer is. But I do think that we have to find more flexibility in that if what our goal is is protecting more trees, not just lowering and lowering and lowering our tree sizes, but giving the staff flexibility because every project is different, right? They have different species, they have different types of trees, they have different constraints, they have different challenges, and I think trying to have a one size fits all, like let's just say 54 inches, let's just say 50 inches, then it's like well then what about this tree that's like a really unique tree that never even gets to that size Like but it's a super cool and interesting tree Maybe it would fall under our species list or maybe it wouldn't so I feel like giving our team a little more flexibility to work with developers site-by-site and Hearing from people who are doing the development on what would be the incentive? What would be the thing that would change the trajectory of them, not cutting down these trees. Could I come in? I will tell you what I've noticed since we've made some of these changes, all I've been to commission. First, Mike was really out of it. It starts with the natural resource. And you have to group that open space so that it's usable by cluster A. Cluster it. And it took a couple years but the public kind of figured that out. And staff, we started asking that they provide a map of the adjacent property so that we could see kind of that that theory. Then the next thing that came up is we just kind of that, that theory. Then the next thing that came up is we just kind of six inches, you can't miss with it. Like you just can't. And then that had another impact and I saw those impacts coming. What prompted this workshop is kind of where we are now. That last development, it was just, I was just like, okay, we have to figure it out. So my point was like I had a conversation with you, you had a conversation with them, I had a conversation with them, and some of those trees aren't getting cut down. It's just they didn't include them in their development plan, because they would have had to do something, and that they didn't have the time, money, or energy to do, I guess. Yeah, so I guess one of the things I was gonna ask staff, it be helpful if we kind of prioritize where do you start? You start with the natural resources, but then the next thing that's most important is you can't touch certain trees, whatever that threshold is. And then it's open space. And you know, that we kind of, as part of the workshop and as part of what we ultimately get to during the EAR or during the climate action when we make these changes that we have a priority there. Would that be helpful for staff or would it not be helpful? Because I have seen an impact, I was saying six inches, you can't touch it, you know, I've seen that effect. And I want to lower that number just so everybody knows. But if we said that should be first before open space, is that how does that look out? Do they look at it as everything at the same time? Madam Chair, we do look at everything at the same time, but we do start with the natural resources on the property. So that can be part of the natural resource. Yeah, and every project, especially the big picture natural resources that I showed on the first five bullets of that slide that goes into the Environmental Resource Assessment that we get with every development. We determine if there's any conservation resources that have to be set aside. The next step is we have a pre-design on set meeting with Jessica or Andrew Arboris as well. And that is where the applicant and their landscape architect or designer and county staff are actually getting a tree survey. We're going out on site and we're looking at this list to determine where the 20% or 10% or 5% of the canopy is going to be retained. Which are the trees that really need to be retained? And I will, I did want to highlight this list because this flexibility is fantastic and ultimately when everyone's like mine did, we get the best design out of that and we're working with the developers. But it is a double-edged sword in the Land Development Code. Right. Because, Josh could have a different opinion than Sergio could have a different opinion than me, he could have a different opinion than the commission and that causes problems. Some of those things can't be avoided. That's why we work through these projects and we come up with solutions. This particular, and this is one at the end of the presentation, we don't have really concrete recommendations, but I think we do feel as staff, I feel that this is somewhat problematic code because it speaks to a combination of these characteristics in the following order. So it's like there's a matrix, but there's not really a matrix. See is causing us to cut down two matrix because it's right after, in my opinion, it's well, this is the best place for it because look at the neighbors, that's where their open space is, but the trees are over here. I've also heard from our staff and the PD staff that, so in those say there's a significant geologic feature that creates a conservation management area with the buffer. Right now, that's the top ranked item for tree preservation. So no matter what the other trees on the side are, it's sort of like it's hard to debate that those have to be are part of the top area to be retained. Even if they're loral oaks or whatever they may be. So that's the, so we may at that point not be getting maybe the best trees on the site. The flip side of that of course is we are getting that area set aside that is not going to be available, not that it was ever available. It's a sinkhole and to buffer it. But it is additional area that's being saying we'll see some of these plans, I think I blew through some of them, but where that does start to add up and with larger parcels, there's enough area there that's flexibility happens with smaller parcels. It does get problematic. And that some of our one size fits all code when this is difficult on, you know, one or two acre properties. And we've seen that with a gas station redevelopment or, you know, things of that nature. So that's a long-winded way of saying this is something we probably would like to take a look at. I don't have anything really concrete to give you, I mean, the open space, the combination of open space with that, the CMA issue. And one of the things that's on here is complement the project design. So when we're looking at the best trees on a property, is it the best tree on that property, or is it a great tree as an example in the Latchua County? And I think sometimes I would like to have some better guidance on that because if we're throwing out some of the other greats, just you know, where the access should be and where the buffer should be and where the DINC city should be based on, it's just the best tree on that property. That's a little different than it's a great example of a great tree that we would want to preserve anywhere in the county. So do we have a definition for champion heritage and specimen? Trees, be it under the... What can you tell me? I'll try to paraphrase. Champion tree is registered through the Florida Forest Service as the largest tree either by the state or national and There's like a state champion registry in a national champion registry. And Elatio County has some of the most champion trees in the state. I think we're the second. We have the, we're the second most champion trees. So those are actually registered. Those are registered. Anyone can register them. You can voluntarily register. If you see a big tree. You nominate it to the Florida Forest Service. They'll come out and measure it. There's a couple of points they take to the circumference. Bob Simon's was famous for registering champion trees. OK, so that's champion. A heritage tree defined by a lateral accounting is a tree that is 20 inches diameter or greater. And a specimen tree, we have a specimen tree list. And those are trees that are unique, either by its species, age, historic value and size. But those like trees that are smaller and might not reach a heritage tree size, those are listed on there and they have their own thresholds. Got it. OK, so this is a workshop. I'm sorry. Is that OK? No, no, that's OK. I was about to ask a question. Real quick. Can we go back to 5.4.3? So this sentence with that definition Remove the second third sentence Third sentence removal or damage of champion trees. So those would be registered Shall be prohibited and removal or damage of designated specimen trees Shall be avoided. So that means greater than 20 inches. Spesimentary can also count for smaller trees. Heritage trees are the 20 inches. Spesiments are like a specimen of a species. Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry, can I ask you a question? Spesimentary shall be avoided or mitigated if removal or damage cannot be avoided. Okay. So that's everything else. That's why we allow trees to be removed there in that list. So we could just change one word actually. I can change specimen heritage for that. But it changes everything. Yeah. Could we find heritage just greater than 20? Yeah, but I'm saying it's not just about the size of the tree. Right. There are trees that never even get the 40 inches. Yeah, it's what I was going to say. Like you're not going to very rarely. You're going to see a 40 inch holly. You know what I mean? Like there's trees that just don't get really big, but it really... Chickas flood plums only live 30 years and they only get to a certain size, but they're a, you know, Yeah, the word heritage and designated specimen you could just do that So that was just gonna be my question though is the so for specimen trees is the age of the tree and the life cycle of the tree taken into account Because like for instance there's for dogwoods like I have one of the biggest dogwoods I think I've ever seen. It's I'm so sorry. It has a it has a trunk that's huge. It's really old for a dogwood. But it's probably not gonna live for another two or three years. Is that just that take into that take it into account. I mean if that's what treat people tell me right I'm not sure but that's what the tree experts tell me. It's like this. Right. I'm just curious. I mean, I'm not suggesting we do that. I just was curious how that was taken into account. And I'm so sorry. I think I should be getting this justice. I'm really, yeah. But yes. Good. So I guess let me try to see if I can answer this. A lot of the trees on the specimen list, they don't end up living as long and they might not be as resilient to construction damage. So those are the things that I take into consideration. I do like to note them and Potentially mitigate for them and if there's an area that's maybe adjacent Or like clustered with with the other trees then those are There's an attempt to retain the smaller trees Yeah, I remember my we had a champion chick a small plum tree in my backyard growing up that Bob Simon's found. And it was really awesome and cool. And he said when he noted it, it's like this tree is that it's into life. It's probably not going to be here for five more years. And short enough, it did die. But for a few years, we had the champion Chick-a-Saw plump tree. So, you know, it's like it's always, it's always such a changing thing. I just was curious how we managed that. And you don't need to have an answer. It's just a question in the work. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm going to say this like somebody has over here. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Jim. I'm good. I'll keep going. I'm sure there'll be more questions that come up. Just some other examples real quickly. So this is a project on the left hand side. This is Tara Estates, I believe. On 23rd Avenue. Take away by the. I know often the commission we get calls as staff as well where you know it looks like the site has been cleared cut Well, that's the the tree canopy was retained and this in this case it actually was quencinant with the open space as well Um, but it's just in the edge of the property so Everything you can see when the property was developed. This was all cleared all this was a lot since stormwater basin art But then the edge of the property was the 11% of the existing tree canopy that was retained. And then this is a standard development where it's requires 20%. This was a self storage unit out in Jonesville. So you can see the areas that are outlined here where the tree canopy that was preserved on this property. As I mentioned, this is our rankings. And as Josh mentioned, this is what she's looking at and trying to kind of put together the best puzzle piece of what should be retained on a property on which she's looking at it, as well as keeping in one of them is keeping in mind the design of the ultimate projects and what has retained will exist in the built environment as well as it does in the natural environment. So Jeff, could you go back again? So you said earlier, so something comes in, the staff says where are the natural resources? We identify the tree survey, what the trees are, and then we meet with the developer on site and start talking about what they're thinking about with regards to where they're gonna design the preservation of the trees for the tree canopy requirement, whether that's 20, 10 or 5, and then what are they thinking about for open space? That's kind of step one. Is that right? Yes. Okay, so when we're doing our, the next step is we do a pre-application conference where they come in with a proposed design and Here's our design base and that's where we're that's where we're starting. Yeah Okay, so I think that's a great first step because that Denifies all the resources and now we can move for that. I do want to comment that with this CMA being the first priority is it's something evaluated by EPD and again it might not necessarily have what's CMA sorry conservation management area got it okay so you know after the CMA areas have been determined my evaluation of what the actual tree best trees are kind of get they don't necessarily overlap in that assessment. Right because if you have a different opinion about what trees should be preserved and they're not in the conservation management area you don't get it you don't get to put your stake in the ground. It's too late. That's what you're saying. Right. And so then they can mitigate for them unless they're 60 inches or they're some major thing. And I think, right. And how often times do you see a site that's kind of cleared and then they come in? Right. Right. That really irritated us on that. I remember the five-acre hair plantation lot that we actually put a stop order on. I mean, I remember that. It's like, yeah, we're gonna bring in a development. Two months after we cleared the lot, took down all the trees. We do have this provision in the code, which is basically some recapture provision that you have to wait five years until you can come in or you have to mitigate and be responsible for. So it's really meant to discourage someone from doing that, at least at the five-year point. And I think it is important to talk about regulation, there's always ways through it. And that is one way that I think, to be honest, I think we have seen people we cannot regulate or very ag or very in a very limited manner, campaign. So that is a corner of 39th, and the example that I'm thinking about is a corner of 39th Avenue in 241. Claire and it for temper purposes. And then, so you're saying they got away five years to come in and say, OK, now we're going to do our plan. If that's, yeah. So that's the, yeah. It's just something to be aware of whenever we're writing regularly so if we want to wear the incentives for yeah could that be seven years could that be eight years I don't know there's another thing for us to think about and and I think and and I think that's something that I've been thinking about is we need to be very careful about you know making sure our agricultural property is agricultural property. Yeah. Because I know of more than one parcel that is owned agricultural or... And that our property is doing a really good job of that. I got really proud of her. I think she's slowly getting there. She's doing and going out and actually looking at people's exemptions and making sure that the exemptions have the exemptions that they deserve. She's giving there. Both, on both fronts, both making sure that what they're claiming they deserve, but also helping people understand the ones that they deserve are not getting, right? And doing education on that. Yeah, and I'm less concerned about this outside the urban cluster, obviously, right? Because the risk is within the urban cluster where they have, where they clear the lot, that they have a prior time frame. So that's not that? where they clear the law, so they have a prior time frame. But that number though, I would be interested in maybe looking at when we get down to it as my college is reading. I still think. We did change that number. It was three years in the past. We changed that to five years. OK. Thank you. I think we've hit on a lot of these topics. So one, as Gesh mentioned, the protected area. So we sort of have two standards that are mentioned in the code. One, it speaks to the drip line. Of course, not every tree is a perfect circle. And also, depending on the tree and the species and the size and where it is in the environment, that might not be appropriate either and a lot of the literature speaks to this two feet of diameter for every inch of tree diameter. So you're basically taking the, and so even when you have an offset canopy you're putting the perfect circle around the tree. Mr. President, was your racing your hand? Yeah, I guess I was just going to say I, I think this is an area where I would love to see staff do, like, bring back some ideas and recommendations for what would be a person. Like, beyond are the trees that are already protected. Like, once you have your open space and you have your protected trees that are protected, those obviously, dripline everything that, unless you have to, and then mitigation, whatever. But beyond that, like, what, what are, what could, what would be acceptable dripplin' impacts that we would allow, that makes sense, that we would allow, and that, you know, like, is it sidewalks, is it up to 25% of the dripplin', is it 10% of the dripplin', is it, so that we could give you all some parameters, like you're saying, so there's some parameters that give you all the structure that you need and the flexibility to be able to have those dialogues without mitigation because I think that that's the key. I really do, I think that what I'm seeing is a lot of these developments once they get to their trees that they have to protect the rest of them, they're going to tell us they're cutting them down, and they're you know, and they're just going to mitigate for them down, but if we want to see them protected on their plans so that we can regulate that protection or so that we can communicate to the public that those are being protected and we can ensure their protection at least in a more robust way, we got to figure out how we work with the developers to show us those trees. Because for example, a bunch of the trees you were upset about on that one development are actually being protected. But they didn't tell us. They didn't tell us. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. On that we're 16 inches. There was only one so it was the ones that you were like well This is 55 and this is 50 cent there was like seven of those that you found that were like Yeah, so about that they're saving four of them three three more than right so I guess my point is just that I think if we didn't If we didn't require as much mitigation as we require We may get better tree protection. I really do and so I think that's a that's a stance that we have to have. Like I don't want to get into a place where we're with and we're not mitigating for the trees and we're not having the money we need and we're letting developers get away with murder and the trees are just dying later. You know, so that's where I'm looking for some recommendations from people like you who know the science and and can think about the incentive sources that trade offs. I also have a question about taproot trees versus surface root trees. Like a hickory tree or a wheat gum tree, those are both their advice to favorite. Have more surface roots, whereas oak trees and pine trees have more of a taproot. Even though oak trees have less surface roots, they're still a taproot tree. Is that way into the how we look at the drip line? And you may not know the answer. I'm just asking if we needed to maybe think about certain traces of... Not necessarily. I am more considerate of the species tolerance to construction. So regardless of their tap roots or surface roots, and it depends on how tolerant they are to these. In different trees have different tolerance stuff. And that's I guess if we're looking at things more specimen specific or species specific than we just reply that's guess that's the question. Okay Let's see if we can get through these slides we sure like get team more to go I think. Now we'll go quickly and and mounted to that to make Mr. Prisbee's point, we're doing some research in other jurisdictions. There are other jurisdictions who do more of a follow-up check and have a process for that. And there's more staff time involved than that. And if it does die, you might end up in a code enforcement situation. You know, you condition no approval. So there are other ways to deal with that other than just upfront mitigation. But maybe we should be, as a code enforcement issue, be taking care of all the big trees, whether they're being subject to development or not. Can we do that? I mean, hypothetically, I'm not. What about what are we requiring as part of the approval? I mean, that's a different thing. It is a different thing, but if we valued all the big trees, then it solves other issues. Just putting it out there is a thought process. Well, not that registered as a champion tree. Yeah, champion tree and then our regs refer to champion trees. But if we valued all of the big trees, anyway, sorry, we'll just keep going. One thing that this graphic on the left shows as well is when we do allow impacts under the drip liner within that protected area, we do sort of have a red line around the root plate, which the rule of thumb is four times the DBH. Right. That makes sense. Four times DBH was, I mean, 60 inches, four times deviators? I mean six inches four times that So I have an example here a 24 inch diameter tree The calculation based on that is for our eight feet radius 96 inches Yes, I think Eight feet is the root plate so that inner circle line on that diagram So the 16-foot circle Yes, yeah, around yeah root plate so that inner circle line on that diagram. That's inch for inch. So it's a 16 foot circle. Yes. Yeah. Around the cheek. Yeah. Got it. That's based on the R root plate defined terms. Imagine a truck and then multiply in inches by four. All the way out. Yes. 24 times four divided by 12. That's the circle's number truck. So the tree's the circle's on the truck. So the trees can't be. It can still be way out here, but the circle could be in here. Right. As I mentioned, so no activity with the Ruth play. We do have a limit on the protected area under the dripline. I guess actually, it's the way it reads. It can only be impacted up to 50% as well. So that's a different, that means it's the similar standard. So you might be more on one side or more on the other, but the root plate is the red line you don't go in there and then 50% of the total drip line area of the tree. But what's the mitigation requirement on that? It's so that the mitigation requirement is 50% of what the mitigation would have been if you were to just cut the tree down. There is the second option of where they can pay full mitigation. And in five years, if it's still alive, then they get all their money back. But they're not even around in five years. But they don't want to sell that development to somebody else in five years. So we do have a way to monitor five years from this day. Kind of. Now I was going to ask for some reclining and what other counties are doing the monitor. So how are we monitoring? We only have one example of that ever happening. It was the CVS. And they put it to check. Yes, it's a bond. And as far as I know, they bond a lot of other things. So that's the idea. That's the idea. The tree is still there, but still there we can put money back. Or we release a bond. But, you know, I mean I think the reality is that the most people are. It's not the financial state. Yeah, got it. Okay. This was the other standard, you know, and trying to incentivize people keeping larger trees was to or disincentivize them. Then removing them was we adopted this in 2020 as that part of that code update where the mitigation schedule actually ramps up the larger the tree is. So it's not, you know, under 20 inches, it's tree for trees, one tree for one tree, and then starting at 20 inches, it's one inch for one inch. So you remove a 20 inch tree, you replace 20 inches worth, you either replant 20 inches worth of trees or pay into our mitigation fund. And then, but then as you go up the sizes, that starts to escalate, so it gets a little more painful to take out a larger tree. Do we have a reverse thing? Do we have the reverse? Like, for example, if they have a mitigation of some trees in some area, but then they're willing to protect trees, they can subtract from their mitigation. No. The only kind of like reduced, other reduced mitigation is if the tree is in some optimal condition, then you wouldn't have to mitigate the full mitigation. Some optimal meaning under your three, three evaluation? Right. Yeah. So evaluation one, two, three, they're going to die anyways for. Well. It's going to live. If I have a discreet. Which one or two? The three is like average health for its age One's and two they don't have to It's a reduced mitigation. So if you had a Suboptimal 60 inch tree you would only have to plant one tree right back if it was going into So I guess that's my point is like I'm just thinking like my point is like I'm trying to think it's not easy for me as a biologist in the college just to think like a developer but I'm trying to think like a developer you know like if I'm like faced with cut down a tree and make my development easier or save that tree what are the things that are gonna make me want to save that tree besides regulation regulation, what you know we can do and you know we can keep it right, it's money, right? And so like we know that they have to mitigate and there's other trees are going to have to mitigate for and they're already going to be mitigating because they're cutting down it. You know, is there a way to do that tradeoff where actually if they protect the trees we want them to protect beyond their required protection, that they actually get a reduction in their mitigation fees. I would say that our SAP is really in 2020. That was the goal. The goal was to try to figure out how to make it hurt financially to cut down these 40 and above. And what I'm saying is I want to make it, we're making it hurt financially for them to cut those 40 and then. Still not working. I know, but that's because they have to pay anyway. And they don't have any incentive because we're not required. If we just require them, we're going to make it undevelopable. We're going to get a lawsuit. It's my point. If we keep adding, you have to protect the 40 inches, you have to protect the 30 inches, you have to protect the 30 inches, you have to protect the 20 inches. Like, there's not going to be any development availability left, right? And we're going to end up in lawsuits around like them being able to even develop their properties because all of our requirements later on top of each other and eventually like they can't develop anything, right? Because there's no room. Because the stormwater requirements and the open space requirements and the conservation management requirements of that, the tree requirements were going to end up in a place where like if you have a small, the parcel, you're not going to be able to develop it, right? So I'm just trying to say like, what can we do that would incentivize them to protect those trees beyond the ones we already require, assuming we weren't going to expand requirements. You know, if we weren't expanding requirements, what would incentivize our developers to protect the trees that we all wanted protected anyway? And I think the answer is those mitigation funds, like right now we're making it really financially unviable for them to protect those trees. Like we're making them paid to protect them. Like they get to protect them, but even if they protect them, or even if they see it. Oh, that's a work job, so maybe they'll tell us. Right. Yeah. OK. Man, just a question or a comment. The comment that I'm hearing us we are talking about protecting these trees is very similar to what I'm accustomed to in protecting water resources. It's a natural resource. We're considering it as a natural resource to be protected the same way that we would wetlands area. And there are a lot of the wetlands areas that are not available to be developed because of what they are. I don't know if there's the same way that you can look at a cluster of these trees and look at them the same way in terms of protecting them to the point where they can't be developed. Well, that is not an issue. I mean, I wish, and a dream world, I would love that, but I think that we, we're lucky for our wetlands, like, they're protected federally, right? And listed species are protected federally. So we have the backup of our federal government to sort of hide behind, if you will, and in terms of decisions that we're making about how it's affecting people's private property rights and their ability to develop. But because we have a state that really like prioritizes private property rights and the ability to develop, I think we would end up in a pretty precarious place if we tried to go all the way. And I think they did. I mean, I think that's what Byerlie and Hodge and the others who helped out right this comprehensive plan and make these major changes. So I think that was their goal. Their goal was to protect as much of our natural resources as possible and to value our trees as much as we value anything else. And to recognize that trees are as valuable as people or as valuable as another natural creature. We all deserve to be here and we all deserve the same respect and autonomy to be on this planet. And we're all equally a part of the importance of this ecosystem that we call a planet Earth in working. And they contribute to our ability to be here by cleaning our air and providing us water management and all the other things that they provide. But unfortunately we're dealing with people whose only real drive is their bottom line. It's a spreadsheet and it's money and it's economics. They don't care about the economic value of the water quality that that tree is providing because they aren't going to ever have to deal with that water quality. Especially the national developers don't even live here. Well, but when you've got wetland serious, you develop around those wetland areas or you try to lessen the impact. But the same way with the trees though, I mean you can still develop, but at the same time making sure that you're not impacting that resource. I mean you just may not be as grandiose in your development. For sure. Or you pick at the prototype. But you know I'm looking at this development right here. And that's cheap and lazy. I mean, I'm sorry. It's all like straight lines, uniform size lots. And in some civil engineers, it's going to send me an email and tell me how rude that was. But he's here. So. But I mean, that is, basic suburbia there. Straight lines, you know, it's not, you don't have any, you don't have any, as you go down the street, there's no, like, terminal vista of something beautiful to look at. It's not designed, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's maximizing the value of the property. They're getting as many lots of second on there. And I, I, I see the value in that, but I also see, have seen many developments that have gone in that have been much more creative, and there's value and creativity, and there's value. And you know this you're a realtor. There's value in making places that you know but it's more work. It's more work for the engineers, it's more work for the planners, it's more work for everybody and so like when we were doing that one development I can't remember which one oh the the one over off of Newbury Road behind the New Publix. Talking to the developers about going around the trees and changing the curves of the road and creating a neighborhood that, yeah, they were losing some trees, but they were working really hard to save the ones that they saved and also make a beautiful place to be. And we can't regulate that, but if we could create regulations that would encourage that kind of thinking, I just I don't know how that is, but that's my frustration. And I guess that's my point that I'm trying to say is, I think that we approached this originally our comprehensive plan. That's why I'm hoping we can do it with the EA. Have this conversation when we're having the EA. Our conversation. Because I think when we originally approached our comprehensive plan, it was approached as like you're saying natural resources first and then everything and then like and then stormwater and then everything else and that has worked for some things and it has gotten us some of the things we wanted but it hasn't worked for other things and it's and it's and it's just right and so it's time to adjust it But I think when we approached it originally we approached it with this very Sort of dogmatic if I if I can use that word approach to the conversation and I think that in in in sort of trying to honor our goal of like engagement and Collaboration and like thinking creatively maybe we need to like flip the narrative. And be like, you tell us like what would allow for that? What would allow for a more creative development? What would allow for you to protect more trees? What is it? Yeah, what are we doing next year? We're just going to have to scope at the end of this year and then we'll be conducting it next year. Yeah, okay. Yeah. I just feel like there's so many things that we need that, like, that layer on top of each other in this conversation. And I feel like we, I want to make, I want it, I want it to work, you know what I mean? Like, we do it, we build these regulations and then we just get, it's a formula. Yeah. We follow this formula in order to make things happen. And you're saying, right? And I think that part of it is that the staff, you know, like they said, creativity is a good thing, but it's also a hard thing for them because then they are like, well, we can't give one developer one thing and not give it to the other. Like there has to be standards so that everybody is objectively getting the same things. Yeah, I wish we could just they agree to protect additional trees? Like are there ways that we can do that? Like there may be a way to flip the scenario and make it an incentive-based structure instead of a demarrate-based structure, you know? And maybe that would work. I don't know the answers or have any examples or specifics today, but it's just a thought. Exercise, Jeff. Okay, sorry, Jeff. I don't mean to keep in the wrong thing. Yeah, you do. We all do. Yeah, I find it. And I also work shop. This is a little work shop. I know. Yeah. I'll just point out the main points of why we chose to show these developments. This was actually one development where the open space did not coincide with the tree canopy or the 60 entries. And they actually, because it is a larger piece of property, you can see how they met their density by providing the smaller lots on a portion of the project. So, in that one, where all that green go back, first thing? So all that other space that looks like green space, what is that? This is... That stormwater, but no. No, these are the stormwater bases. This is the tree canopy area being retained that you see in green. Okay, in addition to the open space. In addition to the open space. Yes. Okay. And this is just that same property turned on the side. You can see it wasn't actually fully canopy. There were portions that were pasture. And we just, on these slides, because some of the conversation in June was about different size, this just shows the live oaks of 40, 40 inches above, nine live oaks were removed, 19 live oaks, 30 inches above, or between 30 and 39 inches were removed on that as part of that development. This is Buchanan Trail, this is over off of North of Newberry Road, North of West End. And they retained 66.82% of the tree canopy, but that's sort of hard to see with the lighting, but actually most of this property was pasture with the exception of a large CMA area that was around the old quarry and it was mapped to strategic ecosystem. So that was all retained. So all of those trees were retained. And then there were some 60 inch trees that were retained along the fence line. This property was not trying to maximize their density. So they just had 2.6 units per acre. And these were the trees that were removed of different sizes, the live folks that were removed of different sizes. As part of the development approval. And this is just a single use development. This is a sonic off south of Archer Road. There was a 70-inch live oak. There was a 56-inch live oak. Those were some of the best trees on the site. And then they retained areas around those trees and then areas around the outside of the property as well to be above the 20% requirement. We spoke about the recapture provisions. So to the point of the conversation you're just having, there are code examples and one that we looked at, we looked at the City of Gainesville, which is, doesn't really have the same kind of features. We have, they deal kind of treat by treat more, more usually. The city of Tallahassee does mirror ours in some ways, but they do, you do get credits for retaining tree canopy. They have, based on matrices of species and sizes, they have different standards or different development types. So in their denser area of the downtown or the multi-modal districts, they actually have a 0% canopy retain. So it's similar to what means maybe in downtown Gainesville, you would have your not requiring. But ultimately in most areas, you're keeping 10% of the canopy on the site, and then landscaping after the fact to get back to the 30% canopy, which is a similar standard that we have in our landscaping code. So you can remove 100% of the canopy, but you just have to maintain 10% and replant 20% more. Well, in this case, in most of the areas, not the most dense downtown, and Christine can come up and correct me if I'm wrong, because she did this research, but that you would retain 10% of the urban forest. The original. The original forest. And ours is 20% in the urban cluster, unless you're doing a TND or a con. Yeah, and it's 10 or 5%. So. And then similarly, they have critical protection zones that are not too different than our, if you look at the radius, it's basically the diameter would be twice the the radius in feet so But they do allow some encroachment into those areas based on the arborist recommendations and the director can allow what are they defined a successful mitigation? I don't know. Christine will look, but I think there must be a time period associated with that. You successfully mitigated the impact so that it wasn't damage or go. We made some care of the tree after. Right. And I, a conversation I had with Hillsborough County as well. They had some similar checking back after the after the right thing. I mean I think that in a big sense is a piece of this too like maybe we need to be spending more of our tree mitigation funds on following up on the trees that we care about because it's like we're saying protect these trees but then we... Well I mean I don't think we're I didn't see it in here talking about a tree inventory in the urban clothes. It's a hot action plan. Yeah, so that's actually the next slide. I think there are, you know, part of it, I think the boards have this discussion this afternoon that there's sort of a lot of strings of this out there. And even to Commissioner Wheeler's point, I know that one of Gesh would love for there to be a designation called significant tree habitat, then that would be something we would look at. We'd have to define, we'd probably have to have in our code, our comp plan, and those were things that would come out of the climate action plan, because it would be a little more complex to define, and we would need to be, you know, do that work. That's not something we could do in the short term. I protect the redwoods, right? Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I mean, I hadn't even thought about that way, but that's where my brain is going. And how long and what would it cost to do what the city of Gainesville or piggyback off of? Aren't they doing a tree inventory within the entire city limits? Or are they doing a sampling? What are they doing? I believe they already have an urban forest management plan and they have a tree inventory to be done every five years. So right now they're on their second round of tree inventory, I believe. I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure that's. And do we have any idea what it would cost for us to do a tree inventory in the urban cluster? I do not have those numbers. That's something we could do some research into. I know that they sort of partnered with UF, right? And it was, I mean they were paying, but there was probably also educational. So I think there was multiple bits, and I think you have ended up getting the bid for the tree inventory. Yeah, I mean, back to the commissioner of prison, it was a point about the folks that wrote this plan, which was two and a half decades ago. I think we're to, in my opinion, we're to a stage now where we have to kind of step back and say, okay, the urban cluster is where we want the development. I get that. But I also know that while I've been a commissioner, we have gotten a lot of low back when celebration point cleared all those liabilities right off the lunch road. We've gotten a lot of low back when these big trees have been taken down. And so I'm ready for us to put the resources into taking a tree inventory within the urban cluster and then developing some of the strategies that you're talking about by the time we get to the EAR, if not sooner. I guess I was pretty upset the other day the other night and I don't know how many nights I'm going to get upset between now and the EAR, because another couple of upset nights, and I'm going to throw out a tree moratorium, because I don't want our urban forest to be slash number or be talking before then. And I'm hoping the developers are hearing that, because there is a quick way to fix this by changing some words in our code. And I don't want to do that. I want to do this collaboratively. But I want our developers to work with us, not against us. And I heard a lot of, and I talked to, has a number of conversations with developers about the code disincentivizes. But if I don't hear solutions from them about how do we fix it, then we fix it by lowering the inches and by changing the definition. And we treat live oaks like we treat white looms. That's how we fix it. And we can do that pretty quickly, actually. And I am ready to do that because I don't want to lose our urban forest. Yeah, I just want to make sure that, like, to their point that we don't do it in a vacuum. Like, my concern is that, you know, we make one decision that's like, and actually, it could have been that we did significant true designation. And we did something much more robust and much more meaningful that was going to have a bigger impact, right? Like I want to make sure that what we do isn't reactionary and that it's thoughtful and it's approached with a holistic mindset. And I know that we have to have some conversations when it comes to the comp plan about other aspects of the comp plan. Right. And then when it comes to the climate action plan, they're going to be bringing forward a lot of other recommendations around natural resources protection and the natural resource services that we are provided by our urban natural ecosystems. And so I want to make sure those things are dovetailed and we don't agree that we want to do a tree inventory in the urban jungle. I think that's appropriate. I also think we need to look at things like, you know, widths of streets and the space that we allow utilities to utilize when they're, you know, like, GRU will take every foot they can. They can't set a line. Yeah, and we need to check it out. Yeah, and so, you know, all of those things affect the number of trees that can be saved and the help of the trees there there. And so I think that's also that's part of our comp plan and our other regulations. And I think, you know, letting staff know that, you know, if we can look at all the ways that trees are impacted and think about, because typically the things that go along with that like the narrower streets and less utility space for utilities goes along with good urban design anyway and so I just would like to see us think about that. I hate using hail plantation as a good example, but when they first developed that they did a great job of saving trees. In the whole neighborhood, yeah. Yeah, in the whole development. They did a great job of saving trees. They recognized the value that were there and there was a whole series of developers that did that in that time frame in the 80s. And I don't know what we can do to incentivize developers to go back to that style of development, but I wish we could, you know, because it worked. But the health of the trees impact the health of the community too. Oh absolutely. I mean, and that's the connection that was what we need to talk about. Exactly. But anyway, Okay, it's almost five o'clock. We've got a whole group of people here. That's slide. That's slide. Mount chair, just that we could make changes shorter term. And this is the conversation that you have. I mean, from a staff perspective, the bottom two bullets there, the hierarchy I mentioned, and the way that that's referenced probably needs some work. And in the proportional mitigation, I think we are seeing that or the mitigation, even if you save the tree, the 50% mitigation requirement is probably something we've heard from a lot of people, looks like it may not be. It may not be a appropriate enough incentive. The first two bullets were just the things that were discussed during the Farca Road conversation about the percentage of canopy that's retained and then ultimately the size of trees that were retained. We can make those changes, but that's the policy decision on the part of the board. So why don't we, if the Tokyo and my commission, want to allow me move that we refer to staff to bring back some recommendations on drip line impacts that are allowable without mitigation funds? So that would be part one. Part two that we refer to staff to bring back recommendations of what other counties and cities are doing for following up on the monitoring and different time frames. And then part three, part three would be to bring back a recommendation on how staff would prioritize the hierarchy of trees. And then part four would be that we refer to staff to bring back to us a budget and a timeline of doing a tree inventory within the urban cluster. I was going to suggest on that last one that we would come up with some kind of round back of the napkin number and when we bring back to you the list of things you wanted to add into next year's budget will include what that number is so you can take a look at where we so that is so that is so that's a big ready to do it now or that I think it's coming up because we make a little piggyback on their contract to you that last week decide that during the budget cycle by the budget and can you can you add to that to continue to look at other ways to Basically save trees because like the things that I just mentioned in terms of Any other recommendations. Yeah any other recommendations that staff has to preserve our Yeah, urban tree can be okay Okay, my promotion don't ask me to repeat it. Just ask the question. I kind of really don't. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Line impacts higher, do you have a trees inventory? Other ways for other. Driblinification. Right. And then what All right, so we've got a motion about dripline impacts, bench marking, a reputation hierarchy of trees, budget tree inventory, and other things, same trees. Is there any further comment to the motion? And what other counties are doing in the monitor? Bitch marking, this one's the same. Okay, sure. And is there any public comment to the mission? Or just workshop. Okay. I got a race to the front. And check, sir. Yes, and the A consultant. We have a little PowerPoint presentation and actually would like to see what we did with the project and the parking lot. Coragias, but I'd like to a couple of things are to start my presentation. Yes, we designed a project that you guys didn't like a particular human and chair. And that's what you're called allows to do that. That's what they call end up being to meet all the requirements in there. There is another rule of regulation beside the trees and open space, don't worry, facilities. We had to create blocks in two days. I did not interrupt, but I didn't realize that we had a presentation at this point. This was really, I'm really, like, three. It's very short presentation, just to show how the new development actually is gonna look. Sir, did you wanna let someone go while I bring it? Yeah, can we get public comment and then we'll do this. Okay. Because go ahead, please. I thought we got emailed to us ahead of time. They emailed us yesterday. I don't know. Yeah. Okay, please introduce yourself. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and commissioners. My name is Kaylee Toler. I'm a landscape architect with CHW and NV5 company. And also Dean Spill native. I just wanted to mention a couple things. I think there were some really good ideas that were being thrown out. And I just wanted to kind of kind of confirm a few of them. You know, I think the commissioners were mentioning some of that flexibility with the preservation. I think with the 60-inch requirement, sometimes bigger isn't better and there was kind of conversation about that, but you know, sometimes there are clusters of trees that are smaller trees that are maybe going to withstand construction over time better than a tree that may be kind of nearing the end of its life. So just something to consider. I also wanted to mention that the flexibility within the drip drip line that is something that we're seeing a lot is, you know, if there's not any wiggle room and the developer does have to mitigate if they impact any of the drip line, we are seeing that where they will either just remove the trees or they just won't show it on the calculations. Right. So I can't like confirm that that is something that we're seeing. Some suggestions that I might offer is in terms of the tree protection. Right now the code requires wooden stakes with orange mesh. For certain trees you might want to require chain link fencing because that adds additional protection. I also have seen in other jurisdictions, you know, incentivizing the tree preservation. It definitely is worth a look at some other codes because some of them have tree credits or a reduction in even other fees as an incentive. And then also there's code language in the city of Gainesville's code that if you save, I think it's 70 inches plus you get a bump in your density, your maximum density. So maybe a bump in density credits might be a good incentive as well. So that's kind of my comments, I appreciate it. That was a good, thank you. Yeah, thank you, Ms. Fuller. Thank you, Madam Chair, Commissioner Staff, my name is Tamar Robbins. Well, I've heard a lot of good information, great presentation, and not reactionary. Yes, this is time to react. Okay, that is absolutely not true. This is a reactionary time. I'd like to see you add to the motion that staff come back with a draft ordinance to put a moratorium on until you guys sort this out because it takes one minute to cut down a 30 inch tree and you guys, we do not have time. The amount of destruction that can be done with chainsaws and two hours is pretty insane, right? It is a reactionary time in our world and we need to protect it. And I think you need to eliminate the language in here that this is within the urban services line. Nope, this should be the entire county because you see those big tracks of agricultural land outside that aren't subject to regulation, right? They go in and clear-cut it, and then it doesn't matter if it's slash pines or if it's oak trees. They are gonna clear-cut it, and there's nothing this county can do, and then they come back in and they're like, oh yeah, well, we need a rezoning. No, you don't. Nobody has a right to rezone. zone. You guys just say no. Resonings are not a property right. They buy the property as it is. Developers think they have all of the rights they don't. I have rights. No, I didn't say anybody said it commissioner, but you like to say that well they have a right to develop their property. No, they don't. They don't have a right to rezone it ever. Right? Resonings is an option. I figure if the tree is older than when before the person bought the property, the tree has rights. Okay, you got a 50 year old tree. They bought the land five years ago. I don't know. The tree was here long before you bought this property. Right? And all the critters that live in it. So I think it's time for a moratorium on the tree cutting celebration point, look what they did. They did cut a big live oak, big massive tree at their entryway because they said they couldn't build the road. Yeah, there were wetlands that could have built a little bridge, but that would be costly. So I think it's Commissioner Cornel, thank you so much for showing some passion and putting the energy behind this. We do not have time to wait folks. And every time I drive by a clear cut piece of property, yeah, I lose sleep too. And yeah, I do react. And it is time to take some drastic steps. The inventory of the trees, I think is a great idea. I had that written down. I think to the chairs point, do your tree inventory? Yeah, adopt an ordinance. You protect all trees. Right? Doesn't matter what zoning they're in, where they are. You've identified them. Yeah, we're going to protect those. I own property in Michigan where they're local codes. No, you don't get to come in and develop, you can't cut down any trees. That's it. They value their community so much. They say no tree are cutting for development. All right. Thank you. Any further comments? Good. Okay. One more. Interesting. Thank you. My name is John Michael Simpson. I am a landscape architect at CHW. First, I want to state that I agree trees are an excellent natural resource for our community. They do a lot of services that a lot of people overlook. However, I feel in this discussion that we're getting a little too hung up on the size of the tree. I can count and bring about countless examples of situations where I've been to a site. In the best trees tend to be in that 40 to 50 inch range. Some of the larger trees when we start getting up into the 60s and the 80 inches trees are sometimes becoming, they're reaching the end of their life. So some of them are not as desirable to keep from a liability risk to the property, to the longevity of the trees themselves. As the Madam Chair mentioned earlier with some of these specimen trees, when we're talking the larger specimen trees, they are getting towards the end of the life. The question I think has to be asked long-term, do we want to save a tree that might not be there in 10 years? Do we put all this effort into saving some tree that might die in another 10, 15 years? For instance, that is a specific reason why we don't save loralokes. Loralokes aren't listed as one of the specimen species and we don't consider them heritage trees at any size. So I think we need to focus some of that and have a little more flexibility on the 60-inch, and plus 60-inch and larger trees. And look at maybe some of that flexibility becomes in the way of, hey, we're gonna have more impacts to this 60 inch tree than we would like, or maybe we remove this 60 inch tree, but as you can, I believe mentioned on another site, kind of do some horse trading with trees. And that might take a lot more input from county staff, but it would be great to see them empowered in that way to where we can kind of, you know, trade off some of those trees so that we're really saving the better trees on the site that both make sense and add the most value to the project as a whole. We hear some complaints about the celebration project. In my understanding with that project, is that the developer was willing to save a lot of those trees, but one of the reasons they didn't is because they were not allowed to get any type of reduced mitigation. So it became that situation of where if there's no flexibility, so it was either we have no impacts at all, in which case we couldn't make our development work financially, or we have to go ahead and remove the tree because we can't make both happen. So I think if we had some more flexibility in some of these areas that the developers would be able to find better solutions that would allow us to save more trees, save higher quality trees, and then be able to provide a better project for both us and the community. Go ahead, Bill. Yes, please. So John, when you say over 60 inches, I hear that with or looks. I get that. Right. You have the same opinion about that with live looks. Sometimes. Now this is a, so is it, is it when they're valued out of one or two because they're sick or they're cracked or they're something or is it based on? I'm thinking so as a specific project that we're working on currently this is the Jessica that you went out and visited the Selenom? No, no, I'm trying to, I'm sorry, I think we had different names for the project. I think you referred to it as the Live Oak cottages in just north of Jonesville. Yes, so Live Oak cottages, it hasn't been fully prepared yet, but it's a project we're looking into. There's a tree on that side, there are several trees on that side that are fairly large in the 50s and 60 inch range. And there is one beautiful tree that just did rate as a that's the highest level on the tree. It was like a 62 inch tree. Absolutely beautiful. Basically we'll meet our canopy preservation requirements with just the tree. But there is also another 60, 60 to 65 inch tree in a site that has had several large branch failures. In these branch failures, you can see the scars all the way on the tree, all the way down to the, basically to the base of the tree. The rest of the tree appears to be in good health today, but that is a tree that to me, I would value less and I don't see the need to protect that one. How did you die in one, just one, two, three. It was a three. It was a three. I'm if you remember. I actually evaluated it. I put notes down that I had some major branch failures and it did have, I think, the lightning damage. At some point, and I talked to the governor of the property. I totally understand your comments. Thank you, John. That makes sense. Commissioner, when you meet with Jess, talk to her about how she values three, four, and five. Because four and five is really what John's focused on. And if a tree's been damaged, but it's seven inches, but it's been in my lightning or a scrap. Right. You know, we're having to protect it when the SAP had the ability to say, can we take that one out? You know and animals save these 354 inch trees. That makes a lot of sense. That might be the case. I just, my understanding for now is if it's a 60 inch tree and it is not a two or a one, we have to save it with a block to the dribbling, if not to the full two foot diameter at breast height. Thank you. You know, the champion oak tree in Latvia County has a trunk circumference of 36.5 feet. Yeah, cello note. Not the cello note. The cello note is no longer the champion tree. The champion tree is now in Latua on the Wilson's farm. It's on private property. And it's 78 feet tall. And they don't know how old it is but it's over 500 years. Yeah, it's all. That's awesome. That's an amazing job. So you know it might die in the next five years but does that give us the right to, for us to decide that it does? I don't think it does. I'm back, Sergio Reyes, CDA consultant. As in, we are the people, the consultant, that we have to put this puzzle together, right? Your code. And I got very short and I have the same similar presentation that Jeff about what you're co-saving, what is the problem with the code. So number one, with the code is your priorities, right? Coming up open space. That's not very well. Meaning all the well-land, sinkholes, all the protection industries. But then we had to say those trees in there. And then trees, priorities down there in the list as you those trees in there. And then trees, priorities down there in the list as you guys saw in there. So we had to follow the priority, what is the area that we had to sell. So like you saw in Talaverde, the project, I'm not sure, didn't like it. The trees were not in the open space, but we still had to save it. And all of the area got saved. And in Syria, we are losing for development because we had to save it. That's fine. So there is contradiction in your code and we have to put all this code together and how it works. And then you have to know impacts on the dribb line and give you an idea what the city on Gainesville does with the dribb line and you have you see it in here and they have a code that is a you know more designed for high density than what happened in reality. And again, it's not perfect by an idea, what it gives you. For example, in general, three preservation to redevelopment and construction. The red clay, such as given requirements, least available, so you do that kind of thing that does code and preserve your tree. You have to impact the tree blind. You can create a tree for that. But there is no incentives right now to do the trees. That was the project that we presented that we say, we're going to save the minimum by code. That doesn't mean that in real life, we're going to save just those trees. Meaning that if we're going to have to pay for mitigation for the extra trees and I'll give you the number of the trees in a second, we show that we're going to remove the tree when in real life more like this, not going to be removed. There are even how you cannot do there and you guys talking about how we enforce this, right? Well, they have a year of preservation trees, and in health, 3D years after this certificate of compensation, it's granted each ad removed will replace it with a 3.3, or 3D's, which original will be having required by cost. So they have a way to follow the 3D's and the safe. And again, this is no perfect ordained sealer, right? Because there are problems with issues and so on. I have something to consider, right? Something to take a look at. Here's the project that we presented. This is going to see, this is why we got approved. We said the three in the middle. And at the time, exactly, because the process we had to do at Resurvey Day is very expensive. And the way the three surveys are done and the requirements of the city, we actually had to attack every individual tree. There were 26 live oxen decide that there were only three rated by Josh, that there were four or higher. And we're saving all those three trees. Thank you for doing that. All right. And so that's how we work there. And my point on all of this into finish is, I think we need to modify the code to give a stop a little more room to work on decisions because it's possible. And hopefully we can come up with something that's beneficial for everybody. And with same or trees, we are likely that we should say more trees. Thank you. Thank you, Sergio. Thank you, Sergio. OK. All right. So we have a motion. And do I need need to repeat that or is there anybody got it? Okay. I have a amount of chair. My only question would be time frame that the board is looking for this. And? The only one that I have a time frame on is the budget. Okay. I mean, it's as possible, but you know, I made a little statement. I presume that folks heard it. I mean, I mean, I guess for the inventory, it'd be nice to know if we could, if the city of Kansas moved forward and we could piggyback on their contract, it'd be good to prove that, if that could happen, then, which, you know, and it makes sense to do that. I don't know that it does or not, but that would be my only other time sensitive thing. The champion trees are registered, right? Do the state, they're registered, so you find those guys. Yeah. I guess my only concern is the, my only thing I'd want to say out loud is to any public that may think they need to be in a big hurry to cut down a tree because they don't care is that we're actually trying to make it easier, not harder. And so I just want to say that out loud to folks so we don't get any strange rash of chainsaws out there. Two. Two. We're over five years. We're right now. Right. I understand. I'll tell my commissioners. I think we should line that up with the EAR. The EAR is every seven years. We should make that every seven. I'm going to agree with that. But just as the argument against the work group, I don't think would work, but the thought. Yes. Madam Chair, I'm more referring to where you would essentially stop all development, because there's a tree on just about everything that we do. And so if you could put a stop to all development, so just see your own. That's why I said I didn't think it would work because I think we would end up in court really fast. But anyway, let's take about all in favor with the motion signify by saying, I, I, any pose, like sign? All right. Let's take a vote. All in favor with the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? Like sign? All right. Excellent. All right. We have a couple of small election items. We need to take place before we have closing comments. One is that I would like request that we cancel the open board discussion scheduled for August 13th next Tuesday. We don't have we don't have any significant items on there and we've got all the extra budget meeting scheduled and we usually do this it just takes up if everybody's okay with that. We're gonna okay and then I'm gonna ask Sylvia to talk briefly about an election alternate that we need. So, Madam Chair, this item is on for the 13th, but I wanted to give you all a chance to think about it and to potentially make some phone calls before that meeting. This year, the Canvassing Board is supposed to be made up of a county court judge, the chair of the Board of County Commissioners, and the Supervisor of Elections. The chair is clearly in a contested race, so there is a substitute for the chair, which is Commissioner Wheeler. We also need a substitute for the Supervisor of Elections because she is in the contested race in the general, not in the primary. So the statute says that for the supervisor of elections, the substitute is someone who is appointed from this board by the chair of the Board of County Commissioners. In the past we've had substitutes from the county, from the board chair. And that's done by this board in general. But the statute says the chair of the county commission appoints the substitute for the for the chair for the supervisor for that position. So she's asking for some input on that. How about you? He's not one. Well, he's not here. He's not in the contested position. But we currently, again, I'll bring you back on the 13th. I'll bring you back on the 13th. Currently Commissioner Cornell is the alternate on this. The alternate is one of two alternates, one who's appointed by this board and one who is appointed by the Chief Judge. They can fill in for anybody who is out, they're just not the substitute for that position. So we have potential here if you decide that the person who's in the alternate position should be in the substitute position, then would need to fill the substitute position it can be done the same way. I'm sorry it can be done the same way or we can send a letter to the chief judge with some recommendations. I was going to ask Chuck would take over me as the alternate. I think I can send a letter to the chief judge. Well I don't think Chuck is. What would happen to send a letter? You know, I miss the thing would be, so if you were willing to be the substitute. Yeah, I really don't want to be the judge. Well, I was going to suggest for a substitute, Lee Pinkerson? He'd be great. If he's willing to do it. We don't get to do that though. We have to send a letter. We have to send a letter but we send letters with suggestions and we need to get permission of those folks and I don't know if Lee has timers willing but that would be one person. Mike Byrly did it last time. I don't know if he's any we just done it in the past two and we and and so you know we have a list of folks that we can ask and so with your permission. I can contact those folks and ask them. And if you have any other suggestions, then I'm happy that you're just Penny. Mike, I hadn't thought of Lee, but Lee would be great too. Penny said health issues, though, so I don't know that she's. Yeah, Hutch is dealing with, is working hard on these campaigning for some things. Oh, I think he's getting a bit of a campaign. So those are the ones that I had thought of as well, those same three. So if you have any other suggestions, but I'm happy to contact them. And then we can. So we're giving you a little bit of a lead time to be thinking about some things. Yeah. To be making some phone calls to see if they'd be interested. We also need, they also need to make some kind of analysis about whether they're an active participant. Right. For purposes of being qualified to set. So instead of just throwing this to you and having you nominate somebody who can't do it or is an active participant give you a little lead time without the crew. Yeah so if maybe by Tuesday you can say Tuesday. My name is Judge. Judge, I've been in the lot of the judge. Jaworski who was on before. He's off now. He's retired but so is he the love for a man. Oh yeah I don't know if I'm not. No I don't know. That's actually actually good suggestion because we're going to do it. And he knows that he knows the game. So he could be the substitute or he could be the alternative. Right. We're all to that into the substitution. So something to think about. OK. Now is there any compensation for these folks? No. Absolutely not. So just to be clear, this is a lot of a lot of works and they just get the Undying gratitude of all of us. I was about to say they get a lot of time Judge Yahuashki cooks to yes, he does he does good reason for you to work. So, um, okay, um, I have to make some phone calls to be thinking about that and then telling everybody was very enthusiastic about the possibility that he could do that. Maybe he's feeling, you know, some, uh, election in Estonia. Absolutely. I'm also happy to talk to any potential candidates about whether they're active participants or not. That's a very fact-based determination. And we have helped you guys make those determinations in the past, so we're happy to. OK, great. That is not sure. And by that, I mean, corporate over there. OK. We do have a company for it. OK. We'll do. All right. Well, we've got that taken care of, so we're going to move on to public comment. General public comment. Thank you, Madam Chair and Commissioners. My name is Tamra Robbins. I'm going to read you an email I sent to you on July 26th. Commissioners, including in this email, is a June financial report for the Elatua County Sports and Event Center. During the July 9th, 2024 BOCC meeting, the board discussed the world master's outdoor track event. Well, it's actually indoor, like my mistake, we would think it was outdoor, that the and the hosting facility, the ACSEC, specifically Commissioner Cornell wanted to quote, hone in on the operations of the event center, the entity that's running it, is it profitable or not? End quote. These financial reports are due each month on the 20th of the month for the prior month's operations. I suggest you get all of the reports currently in possession of VOC staff and review. Mr. Crosby stated during the July 9th meeting that parking was being charged to park in the parking garages. The finance report and all prior reports state otherwise. Why? It states, I'm gonna disinsert, it states expenses for parking garages, but no revenue. So I don't understand that. The BLCC has authority per the operations contract to fully audit all issues related to the operations of the ACCC. I suggest you go beyond the, quote, agreed upon procedures, not an audit, quote, end quote, stated by Mr. Crosby, and initiate a full audit of this public facility. The facility continues to register expenses that exceed the revenues by a high percentage. The profits of this facility are to be shared with the public. This will never happen based on the trend to date. You are the fiduciary of the public money. You have committed no less than $30 million to this facility. It is time to have an open review of this investment. Tamar Robbins. Well, no surprise. I didn't receive his response from anyone on that email. So I just thought I would read it to you again. I don't know where you put something to put it on the overhead right now, and I don't have time to have somebody figure it out for me. There used to be a little thing there. The white thing right there. Oh, okay. Excuse me. It's not working. We've sent it all up to be prepared. It hasn't been paid so long. Okay. Well, on that flat. That's it around. You've already seen this. This is the development with the City of Elatua is looking at doing a final plat, this is I-75. This is the big area of that you guys, and I brought this to your attention, that county staff, I didn't wanna imply in a way that the county staff, the county was not going to buy that, it was listed, and I hope you'll give me a little time since I wasted it doing this. The county did everything you could to get that land and put it in a conservation easement. I didn't want you guys to misunderstand that there was some ball dropping that can't went on your part. This was a backroom deal by some people in the city of Elachua that undermined the purchase of that amazingly sensitive land. It is, according to the cave experts, the most sensitive sink in a Lachua County. And that mill sink is a massive piece of property. I just want to reach you. It is 21 square miles of watershed. 153 acres of flood plain surround this property. It's 43% of this property, right? It rated five on the chart for where it ranked on the conservation acquisition list that your county staff did and the committee to do it. And it is going to be developed if the City of Elatua has anything to do with this horrendous development with all these retention basins along there. And this land right here is also owned by the developer and it is just Zoned conservation guess what city of all that's what commission would probably happy to do rezone it So I'm just saying that I just wish the county would be present pay attention you paid You authorize a half a million dollars to pay attention to the phosphate mine in Bradford County because you were concerned about the effects on the Santa Fe River. This goes directly to the Santa Fe River, you guys. The Blue Diet Race Study, remember? Yeah. So I urge you to take some interest in this property. This is incredible. What is happening? There is a group of citizens in a latch war right now, including many cave divers. Madam Chair, I appreciate your latitude here. I know it's late. Please don't just ignore this. This is a latch war county. This is one of your most important features in this county. We give a copy of that to the clerk. The map? Yeah, thanks. There's a meeting Monday night regarding this. I know there's a man chair if I may just correct that. I think I'm speaking on Monday night it is not on the agenda for the City Commission. Okay. It's going to the final plat which will be coming up. But there is citizens who are meeting. Thank you. On Tuesday. Oh okay. All right. Citizens are meeting on Tuesday since that one set on to the mic. All right. Any other public comment? All right. Commission comment? Just quickly there is a DGJ gun violence event happening at Santa Pay tomorrow from 10 to 12. I think commissioner book has been involved in it. It's nothing that the city or us are involved in, but if anybody's interested in going, I cannot be there because I am gonna be going to, I think it's the community paramedics program at the city brandy and our crisis center are hosting a crisis intervention training from 10 to 12 same time at GFR, which I am gonna go to. And so just kind of giving people the heads up of that event is happening at Santa Fe tomorrow. What time is it? 10 to 12 at Santa Fe College. My folks are interested. At the main campus. At the main campus. Yeah. And then the only other thing I wanted to say is I've brought up this a couple of times, and that is the Eastside Clinic. I went to the open house they had this Saturday. It's beautiful. It's like the facilities are really nice. I saw you there. I think they're doing a great job of getting the facilities to be what the community asked for. However, I remain concerned about pricing. And so I've been talking to different folks about that. We still haven't gotten the price list. But what I have found out is that all hospitals and urgent care and doctors offices can provide estimates. And typically they do it upon request. And if it's not an urgent care or an ED, they actually have to by law stay within 10% of that estimate. That's not true necessarily of a nerfing care emergency room because they sometimes have to ask quickly and they don't know what they're going to need to do. But I wanted to see if we could write a letter to the administrators at the East Side Clinic to ask if they would proactively provide estimates to all of the patients that come in so that people understand what it is that they're getting into. It's not that difficult to do. They do pain do it upon requests so they should be able to do it for everybody just so that people know what their bills are gonna be like. And also they had some conversations about the possibility of pharmacy, kiosk and the possibility of being able to do labs. And so I just wanted to encourage them to continue pursuing the pharmacy kiosk option and expanding their lab services for people to be able to be sent there just for lab services. People have to drive all the way across. So two parts of the chair. So two parts of the chair, like I said? Yeah. Thank you, motion. Second. They come into the motion. they come into the motion. They come into the motion. Seeing none, all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. We got a letter. We brought out a follow-up time when we were talking earlier. And they still didn't go there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's the right idea. I put a copy in or I asked the toilet to copy your box of my fact experience. I just wanted to let you all know I've been asked and strongly considering our run for second BP. If in fact I do that it would require the board to support it. So I just wanted to put that out there for you all to think about that. And I figured that was coming given that you signed up for every single board. That's a good thing. Yeah, and well, and I also was recently appointed to the board as an at-large membership. I just wanted you all to know that as an at-large membership. I just wanted you all to know that and at some point there might be a motion to do that. So congratulations. I'll wear your button. Yeah, very unaware of that. That's helpful. Thank you. Yeah, congratulations, Ken. I know you've put a lot of love on it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I haven't declared yet, but I'm talking to some folks around the state and they yeah, I was approached I quicker you do it But more people will back off Thank you All right, you're right. Look and Know I was just gonna brag on the your care center to with the same concerns that I mentioned as well a lot of folks there. Okay. All right. Well, I spent a few days in the EOC and I wanted to tell everybody, well, I think it won't be my only chance, but I just wanted to take this opportunity to tell staff, thank you, for the amazing work that they do there and for all the cooperation and how kind and patient they were with me. My first experience in the Electric County EOC and it was really good. Yes, well done. Yes. All right, that's all I have. Yes, well done. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. So all right, that's all I have. Meeting is adjourned. That's one thing we have to have. What, wait, one thing? Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't go to you guys. That's OK. We're being asked about extending the emergency declaration for seven days expires today. If we can extend it for another seven days. We're still doing damages estimate And we're still watching the river rise It's fine with me. We just want to keep it signed anything. Yeah, we'll put it forward Do you want to vote? Yeah, we need emotions before it can do it move to extend the emergency declaration for seven days Seconds second. I will tell you Mary when Irma came and all that water was dropped north I 75 became I remember yeah and we know we're dealing with the Patrick Creek or the state and the state dealing with it so Water is coming. Yeah, and it's coming and It's time and the and so I'm wondering if seven days is actually gonna be long enough But we'll do so with it as we can. Yeah, we'll come back to you all my point my yeah I know we can only do seven times. My point is to a public. This is not over. So all right. Now we are adjourned. Thank you. Oh, vote. Oh, vote. Everybody in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Like so. OK. Good. We have emergency declaration for seven days longer. And now we are turned.