Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. It's good to see so many smiling faces here tonight at this special workshop meeting for a discussion of our police department and our current situation and what we look forward to in the future. If you would join me with our collegiate legion. Education is to the liberty and justice for all. Is there anyone in the audience who would like to offer an opening prayer? Thank you. You're welcome. Welcome, and native. Let us pray. Father God, we come right now in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ with bowed heads and unbohards, acknowledging that you are God and there is no other that you are in control. Father God, I pray in the name of Jesus that you will take control of this meeting and that it let it be handled in decency and in order and let your will be done for this city of theundellan in Jesus name I pray amen. Amen. Amen. Double amen. I would like to take just a moment ladies and gentlemen since this meeting is occurring this evening to share with you that yesterday afternoon I had the honor of visiting with Mr. Clinton Burns. And his family, yesterday afternoon, Mr. Burns condition is very grave at this point. As many of you know, he's 103. He turned 103 January 2nd. He is a stalwart in this community. He is our auxiliary police officer. And he has had that role for many years. And we've all taken great joy. All of us have lived and experienced life with Clinton in the city of Dunnellan. So as the curtain begins to descend on such a great person, I wanted us all to keep their family, the Burns family and your thoughts and prayers, and Clinton smiled a little bit yesterday when I spoke to him. His daughter told me he can hear me. He can hear you. He's responding, responded with his eyes a little bit. So she said he can hear. So I know I was able to speak to him. But I wanted to share that with you because it is a meeting this evening and I see many people in the audience that have known him for many years. So with that being said, we'll go ahead now with our procedures Madam Clerk. Mayor Green. Here. Mayor Insake. Here. Councilman Lehman. So with that being said we'll go ahead down with our procedures Madam Clerk. Mayor Green. Here. Vice Mayor Insake. Here. Councilman Lehman. Here. Councilman Neyjar. Here. Councilman Dunn. Here. Sean McLean, Finance Officer. Here. Captain Bray. He's here, right? Yes. I'm up here. Michelle Winter, Assistant Clerk. Here. The bill entered the assistant clerk here, Julie Denowsky records clerk here. The agenda for this meeting was posted on the city's website city hall Bolton board on Tuesday March 4th 2025. Okay Amanda do we have anyone to assign up to speak this evening? I think most of the attendees tonight understand our situation here. We have a sign-in sheet, but of course, if your name is not on the sign-up sheet that does not preclude you from having the opportunity to speak. We want to hear from the citizens tonight so that what is being done now is we're checking the list that people who had signed up prior to the start of the meeting. But your chance and your opportunity to address the council will certainly be here. Mayor, we have this agenda set up for the discussion first and public comment following. So do you want to allow public comment at the beginning of the meeting as well? Well, we could. I would think that most people in and this is addressed to the audience, we probably want to hear exactly what's going on before there are public comments. But if there is someone who would like to speak prior to hearing the facts and the information relayed to everyone, they may do so now. Is there anyone who would like to speak ahead of this meeting? Yes. Art? Art's on the. Art, yes. Yeah, I can't say the whole meeting. Yeah, I can't say the whole meeting. Yeah. But one for my two cents in. Yeah, once again, art Jones. I live here on Palmetta Wave right here in Dunnellin. And first of all, I want to say that we all, and certainly I do, have respect for all law enforcement personnel. Be it the city police department or the sheriff department or FWC or whatever department that is, we all respect all officers equally. So what I'm going to say, don't take it personally against the city police versus the sheriff, anything like that. We support them all. Marion County has a population of over 420,000 people. Billy Woods, the sheriff there, has 900 employees. Because it's a big area to take care of. He's got a budget of $186.7 million. And he has resources that we could never hope to own individually ourselves, but we can share those resources. So I think that sharing those resources with the sheriff would make the police in Dunnell and more efficient and better off. It would support them better. In a sheriff, when you're hired by the sheriff's Department, sometimes that's also a career position. So the sheriff employees are great. We had the city of Christopher River, I live there, and we had the sheriff come in and take over the city. And people were afraid that, oh, it's not going to be personal. But we had Brian Coleman come in, and he had his sheriff dep deputies and they connected with the community as much as the regular police did. We didn't lose anything. In fact, we gained a lot and they were much happier and these were career people that stayed in town and we were also saving money on top of that. So on top of all that, since I moved to Den Allen. it's a big thing about the where's the next police station going to be built? And you know it's back and forth, back and forth. Well if we go with the Sheriff's Department we don't need to build another police station. You know now we're sharing in the infrastructure they already have. So I know it's just up for discussion, but from what I've heard so far, it makes sense that we join forces with the Sheriff's Department and keep the police here in Dunnellen as sheriff officers, like I say they're all law enforcement officers. And I think it'll be in the long run, it's going to be a good thing for the city. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Art. Oh, David. Good evening. My name is David Paul, 1208, 8, with Kiwis Circle. I'm going to take a different tack. I've been very concerned about our city for years. I've heard a lot of different things. And I read this book because I liked a gamble, right? And the book was by a guy by the name of Lyle Stewart. And Lyle Stewart says this, you are not dead until your ass is cold. All that being tied into this, this city has had trouble for years and years and years. And one of those components that I've seen, by the way, I do my due diligence, I've reached research and I think of few of you would say that that's true including I've called Ms. Julie the lieutenant for the Sheriff's Department and I will say this based on that last couple council meetings I'm very very happy with this council. I saw some maturity being exhibited, some behavior changes, and some accommodations being made to put the citizens and the taxpayers of this city ahead of all of their differences. So I would like to say thank you to you. I hope you guys keep moving forward with that. Regarding the police department, I've been a big, big, big advocate and strong advocate for the police department. I've always done it. I think a couple of the folks here have heard my private speeches regarding that. I don't know if I feel that way anymore. And I'm going to make a connection to the City Council itself. You guys have taken on that responsibility. None of your capacity to do it. I just don't see any evidence of it. I look across the spectrum there and none of you guys have a background in being a good police administrator. So I think our police department has suffered because we have not been able to devote the time, the energy, the talent and the experience to managing a police department. Therefore by default, based on my research, I think the only way forward is to go forward with a connection relationship to the sheriff's Department. Which brings me to my next thing. We have been unfairly burdening certain staff members in this city with a lot of work and responsibilities that they're not experienced to do. Because we don't, you guys don't have the time to do it. So therefore, tasks that should be accomplished by certain individuals are not getting accomplished because they're focusing on these other areas. We need to eliminate that. We need to treat our people on this staff fairly, compassionately, and supportively. So my position, based on my analysis, is that we make a decision to go forward with the sheriff. Thank you, David. Is there anyone else in the audience? Linda Andrew. Welcome, Lynn. Lynn McAndrew, 20390, the Grenada, Denellan. And I would like to say that I am about to be convinced of the hybrid thing might work. And but I would like to see I would like to make sure before we get rid of everything that has to do with the police department in this city that we give it a trial period of a year or so to be sure that it's gonna work. Because once all the equipment's gone, the police cars and the building and everything, once that's sold off, there is absolutely no getting it back because we would never be able to afford that short of a big donation. So I think the hybrid model might be something that we should try and then revisit it. And even possibly, I don't know how, I mean, I do know how referendums work, but I don't know if this was something we could put on a referendum in the 2026 election about the police department. Is that possible? Is referendum just a change to the charter? I'll change to the charter. Okay. Okay. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to address the council? Yes, yes, Kathy. I'm not sure we'll find out next. Cheryl Miller. She, she go ahead. I'm okay. I'm going to the panel next. Kathy done one one threat, it's eccentric strive. I think that since I've lived here in 2017, the problem is we're expecting a city council of citizens to provide oversight to a police department that is a recipe for disaster and malfeasance. And that's exactly what I've seen. With the exception of Ron Bray, I have been extremely disappointed in our police. Might McQuagg? Speeding. Stance right up here, we don't have any speeding in this town. Scaglione? Attacks to citizens when they ask simple questions about what they're doing. I don't think that has been a working relationship with the citizens. And if the staff is not going to be out anytime that the City Council has tried to provide oversight, they have tried to burn it down. They have demonstrated that they resent oversight when we try to provide it, which is our job, because you represent me. So I just think it's a recipe for disaster and a small town to expect citizens, city council, which is a revolving door, let's face it, to provide oversight to a complex and litigious bodies such as a police department. And I think we were crazy if we want to continue the pouring of resources and time preventing our city from moving forward with our planning and development by continuing this. Thank you. Thank you, Kevin. We have, yes, welcome. Cheryl Miller, I live at two of those 765 third avenue in Denalin. Just a few things, I am friends with several business owners here. Okay. Okay. I am. Too good. Have a side. Did you get it? Have a side. I thought... I'm a resident of Denellin and I'm also friends with several business owners here in town. And moving forward, there's been several in the last eight months break-ins in Dinellen, robberies. None of them have been adjudicated, fixed, found, you did them, and it's continually happening. Moving forward with the Sheriff's Department is gonna save the town money. It's gonna give them better resources. They talk about losing a building for the police. Obviously, the deputies come to town, they have to have a place to house. So that's not going to go away. That's still going to be there. But moving forward, you will have more resources, save the staff time and energy that they put into hiring, firing, doing all that stuff. Mary County will do it for us. The City Council, you will have to worry about it. The staff of Dylan office will have to worry about a lot of that stuff anymore. And they can focus on things that belong to the town and take care of things that should be taking care of. But they're not able to do all of it all the time because they're putting resources to the police department that the last several years, well, multiple, multiple years, there's been turmoil. It's been problems over and over and over. So as a citizen and friends of business owners in this town and knowing people that live in Christopher and Inverness and friends that were deputies in both of those towns. It's worked great for those towns. So we move forward that it's a great thing that we move with the Sheriff's Department for the city just like we did the police department and that's worked great. So thank you. Thank you. Do we have anyone else that would like to speak and address this issue? As I said, there will be times later on what some information is provided for your further participation. This is just an opening statement from any individual in the audience. We're not seeing anyone. We'll move on then and get into the actual item number one discussion. And what I've, what I thought we'd do is that we would open if it's with the Council's approval, of course, that if there was a statement to be made by the Council members at this point. If that would be appropriate would that be Wally's that all right start with that wait. All right we'll start with that as I usually do I will look to my right and I will ask Valerie Hatcher to start us in this conversation thank you Valerie. Thank you Mr. Rand thank you everybody for being here today. It's the most fun for me. vibrating. Okay. First of all, I'd like to apologize to the citizens of Denowell. As a council, we sit up here and we are obligated to do what's in the best interest of our citizen, and we are all citizens ourselves, so I include ourselves, our families, our business owners who aren't residents, but still pay the taxes that come into this town. I have sat up here for a few years at different times. I have seen some fabulous chief of police and staff. I have been able to be a part of the hiring process of chief of police. Sometimes when we get up here on City Council, we don't want to use word complacent, but we become thinking that everything's okay because it's not on fire that we can see. It might be smoldering underneath and we haven't seen smoke yet. Perhaps that was an issue with one of the previous chiefs and that's why we had a great exodus. There wasn't, we thought everything was good, but apparently there was a lot of smoke that we did not know about. So I'll take responsibility for not smelling the smoke myself. We have had councils that have kicked over the rocks, looked over every stone and sometimes as councils we do that and we think we've got it all done but we forgot to look at the big boulder and we didn didn't look underneath that big boulder and get the expirvation equipment to come look under that as well. So I think that's what happened with Chris Gaggolion. Moving forward, we've had the issues. We've had our disappointments. I think that there is a good hybrid up there. I am open. I have my own personal opinion. I know what I would love to do, but that's not why I'm up here and that's not why I sit here. I'm here for each and every one of you and for future generations. So therefore again, I apologize for the chaos that has ensued the city. I take responsibility for whatever part I might have had in it, for trusting too much, for not kicking ever more stones, for not smelling the smoke better. I can promise you going forward if it's with the sheriff, if it's with the Dell and PD, it will be lined by line, word by word, investigated by me before I put my thumbs up for it. I will talk to every single citizen that wants to talk to me and business owner. I will talk to you know, I've had plenty of sheriff's office, current sheriff's officers come and talk with me. I've had former police department, former police officers come and talk with me. And I have openly listened to them and I have appreciated everyone's thoughts and the processes that they think we should take next. But I'm not going to rush this. I know that we have to have answers and that's 1% what I want to get. I'm not going to rush this. I know that we have to have answers, and that's 1% what I want to get, but I'm not going to do it at the expense of not thoroughly investigating everything before we have the mayor put his signature on any contracts with a sheriff or with our new chief of police. So that's what I'd like to say to you. And I'm open to hearing what everyone in this council has to say. I might not always agree with it, but I will always respect that they put in the work and their opinions and I expect the same. Thank you, Valerie. Thank you. Rex. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I moved here four years ago in one of the first things I remember was standing out front of my house and watching the Den Allen PD drive by it every day. Thinking that that was really nice and that that was what I wanted to keep and I eventually ended up on the council. And at the same time I also remember coming to the first council meeting and listening to Chief McQuig and getting the feeling that there was no accountability and he pretty much did what he did from the way he talked even though I had no idea what was going on. I am for a home time, a home town police organization. However, as I've done my homework and I've looked into what's going on, I'd like to bring up some things that I've seen. First of all, in talking with Lieutenant Baldwin last week, that she pointed out some things that were going on that were very basic officer training that weren't getting done. And I was a lieutenant on fire rescue in Miami and everything she talked about was going on. It was basic knowledge that those officers should have known, but they didn't. That's a problem. When I look at the lack of accountability for a police chief, the fact that the five of us up here, we don't know anything about police officers. It's, I can't tell you how many times I went in and visited with Chiefs gagging me out. Are there any problems? No, everything's fine. Then you find out later on that there are impact and multitude of problems. What I want to point out is that if we do decide to go to a chief, I worked on a fire department. Fire departments are like police departments. And I'm sure these gentlemen will attest. There's a hundred people on your police department who think they could do a better job than Billy Woods. Am I right? And everyone on this looking for a job. But there's a reason why they don't get picked for that job. So they apply for jobs over here. So that's what we're looking at. We're going to be if we go for an outside chief, we're going to be taking somebody who probably couldn't work his way up the ranks of that department. And I will tell you that there was a lot of art assistant chiefs who got promoted to other fire departments. And we waved and watched them go because we were happy because they were nuts. So that's one of the problems that of getting a chief and the fact that there's no accountability. When I looked at one of my big problems was the lack of control we would have and the lack of accountability from the Marion County Sheriff's Department. I realized one day that the sheriff of Marion County doesn't just answer as we as our police, he does the five of us. He answers almost half a million people and he's got a very strong commission and they have an entire group of people up there who can watch what he's doing and investigate that. We don't have that. So as I look at the overall agenda in the hybrid department and just some things in my opinion to look out for the long term, if we do decide to go this way, can we manage the cost increases? Because two years ago, we were told it was going to be $2 million. Then when they did the takeover of all of our officers that came in and offered it to us for $1 million. Now it's down to $750,000. Is it going to be a bait and switch? What's it going to cost us in the future to add officers? My real big concern is that, and I've heard this run away from a few of my people, from the people in my neighborhood, is if we get rid of the police department or we turn over to Mary County, what do we need city hall for? Now, we really don't except for the fact that December, Armstrong builders came in here and wanted to build 550 homes out by kind of farms. And they wanted to put the houses four or five feet apart. And we said no, and we haven't heard another thing. But I'm sure if they'd gone to Mary County, Mary County would have set five feet, is three feet because Mary County wants the money. And this is the final thing that I want you all to really think about. If you think that we have a voice in Mary County, we don't. We're 2,000 people in a county of half of the in people. So if we have a problem, we're going to have to learn to deal with it. So I guess to say in the long term, we cannot continue the same road we've been on. It's not working. We need to get input, we need to get a better way of doing it. I am in favor of a hybrid department or something like that. And as long as it costs can be dealt with, and that's pretty much what I've had to say. Thank you, Rex. Now I'm going to turn to the left. Which one of these gentlemen want to speak first? Well, you're smiling bigger. I'm going to let you have this one. Well, thank you, Mayor. I appreciate your smile. First thing I want to say is I'm glad to be back on this council. Last time I was on this council, we were dealing with this same issue. And if I have anything to say about what happened the last time I apologize to the citizens because I was here as mayor when we went through this and we selected Chief Stagley on and up until the time I left being mayor, I felt the city was being run fairly well. After I left, though, I started hearing from many of you and people on this staff and all over town that it wasn't working out real well. Again, when this happened two years ago, personally, I had my own opinion. And that opinion was, we needed a go to the American County Sheriff. But at that meeting, it was very interesting and exciting when you have your chief walk in with all his policemen and announced he's leaving in all of them are resigning that day. I learned pretty quickly, we have to do what the citizens want, like Valerie said. I sit here with my own thoughts, but we have to do what the citizens of this town want us to do, okay? And because of that, we went with our own police department. Having experienced what we have again, and I think Tim documented this at a meeting that I attended earlier, at some 17 years, we have struggled with our police department. This is not just something over the last two, three, four years. We seem to solve the problem and it comes back and solve it and it comes back. And again, I think like Rex had said, I'm not sure we're qualified to run a police department. In fact, I know I'm not. And again, when you look at the Mary County Sheriff and the resources, the money, the talent he can get versus what we will get, strongly come into the conclusion that I don't think we can compete with that. Now the next question becomes do we need to compete that? Or can we continue doing what we're doing? That aside, I grew up in this area. I moved back to this area eight years ago. And all this council seems to get tied up with is our police department. Or what are we going to do about a building or where's the new building on bay we buy property we sell property we buy more property and again we still haven't got a new police station so again it does type a lot of our resources personally I've watched all this again and although I have of lone feelings. I think it's time for us to try new avenue. And hopefully, when you get through listening to all the information that's been accumulated, most of you I think will agree with that. Thank you. Thank you, Wally. Last but not least, Tim. Mr. Mayor, I have a PowerPoint presentation that I would like to go through to help educate and use it as a starting point for us up here to move forward. So at the appropriate time, I'd like to go through that. All right. Do you want to just make an open statement? Now do you want to go in that for that now? My opening statement would be I agree with everything everybody up here said. And I agree with everything that the public has come up and said also. OK. When would you like to do your PowerPoint? Do you want to? Miss Mary, do you want to have an opening statement? That's what. Oh, yeah. I will, but I was just trying what I'm trying to do is it's it's a tip turn now. Yeah. And I know whether you want to make an open statement. No, but you walked away and do it with your PowerPoint. Sure. I just that wasn't my opening statement. Just that. Right. Yes sir. And then you reserved and come back. Yes sir. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Okay, I understand it now. Oh, ladies and gentlemen, this issue has been center stage. Since I came on to council a little over a year ago, I have heard from many friends, many businesses concerning this issue. It is weighed heavy on me for quite a while and I've done my homework and my research and I've listened to what I've been advised by our businesses and our citizens and has been revealed here by the council that we're not here to express our personal viewpoints. We're here to assess what is best for the overall citizens and businesses in our community. That's what this decision has to be based on as far as I'm concerned. There's no personal identity attached to it. It's all based on what would be best for our community. Now, five years from now, 10 years from now, 15 years from now and on into the future. As Rex said, we have to plan ahead. We have to think about where we're going to be. I, from the research I've seen, I think that preserving the chief of police position as our city charter requires is not a problem. We can maintain that position within our city and then the citizens can have the opportunity if at a later date they want to change the charter that can be done and that's the only way that can be done. We cannot eliminate the chief of police position without a referendum by the citizens of the community. So if it was, it's still in office, and what would that chief of police do? Would he just be someone that walked around town with a badge on? No, he would not be. He would be very active in the community. We have several items that the chief could actually be work hand in hand with the Sheriff's Department on. We have our river control, we have our volunteers, we have all kinds of efforts that our chief can be involved with. And that would be a hand in hand operation with the Sheriff's Department and would do a fine job for our community. I think that would be one way that the community would feel like that they still have a hand in what goes on because they still have a chief of police and he works in in in tandem with our law enforcement professionals from Marion County. That's if we go that way. That that decisions is in the near future and we're all facing that now but that's basically I feel about it and I promised that there would be a public opportunity for participation in this Decision and we're doing that this evening and I'm glad to see you all here tonight At this point in time Jim would you like to be recognized to go ahead with your PowerPoint? Sure. Thank you, sir. All right, we also have the Marion County Sheriff's Department is very well represented here tonight and we look forward to hearing from their spokesman, whichever one is going to be the brave soul that steps up tonight. And we look forward to hearing from them also. And I'll recognize by some areas to keep now. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I want to start off with a PowerPoint presentation. I just had a lot of input. It's had from citizens, from businesses, from the Sheriff's Organization, from DPD, from staff. I mean, just basically took all the information and compiled it. Like I said, into earlier, for a starting point and help educate people of what this morph program would look like. And then everybody can take a look, see what they like, what they don't like. And then we can revisit everything, thinking of another workshop and iron things out. So, Nick's side, Mandy. So, basically it's just a rough decision process. Pretty much just says everything I just said except a little fancier. Yes, ma'am. All right, so what we're looking at is five elements for this particular presentation. What staffing would look like? Responsibilities, the location, equipment, and then the finances. Okay, so overview of what the Mayor and County Sheriff's Office enhanced law enforcement plan could look like is the service area would be incorporated in the areas of the city of Dunnell and within city limits. It would be right now the number that we're looking at based on the recommendation of the sheriff's office would be a six-debt UDs that would be right now the number that we're looking at, based on the recommendation of the Sheriff's Office, would be six deputies that would be dedicated inside Dunnell and just as if they were our Dunnell Police Department officers. The next one is, you're gonna get a lot of questions on how about our ordinances, could they be enforced and all that, so the laws that would be enforced, it would be all state laws, all county ordinance, all county ordinance that are applicable within Don Ellen. And those city ordinates which are enforceable by law enforcement. I don't think there's many exceptions to any of those. I myself know none, but so basically, the concerns are would the done on ordinances also be enforced in the answer is yes with this. And also this would all be in a contract. It's not a handshake. It would be like any other service agreement that it would all be a contractual. The staffing structure would be for Mary County would be one lieutenant and six dedicated patrol deputies. The deputies typically have a six-month period where they can bid territories that they want to operate in, which could be concerning, you know, every six months. Naturally, we would not, it would not probably be favorable to see six-brand new deputies every six months. So they're looking at when they reach out to the deputies that want to work this area, talk to them that this would be a year-long type thing for them. Now if somebody had a life, something changes in their life, you know, and they need to go do something else, they're not going to be stuck here. And like Lieutenant Julie tells me, they're not going to have to die here. So their career won't be limited and stuff like that, but we would not see a six-person turnover every six months. What this does is that allows these deputies to get familiar with the community, get familiar with the businesses, and give us the home count feel that everybody wants. Police powers granted to the sheriff and deputy sheriff's under the agreement include municipal police powers equal to those held by done and police officers. And this will be formalized to a resolution adopted by the City Council. So basically that would give the sheriff's office permission legally to come in and do law enforcement here with that resolution. Okay, our existing department structure is City Council up here. And you've heard many times and I could not be in more agreement. We are not qualified to follow and provide oversight for a police department. It's just, there's too many ends and outs litigation. You name it. I mean, I don't think anybody up here really has law enforcement experience. And even if we did, it would probably be a little bit. It wouldn't be anything like the depth that the county organization has. So, I'm not gonna go through and read everything. Basically, as a chief goes down to Captain, Sergeant, Admin, Evidence Room, Corporal Corporal, and then six officers. That's what the existing structure is. The proposed structure would be, we would maintain, like the mayor said, we would maintain our police chief, that police chief would also be a slash community resource officer. We went to, we spoke with the Inverness and Crystal River and a past sheriff that implemented the program over there and that's where he expressed to us the importance of a community resource officer. And even mentioning, when you hear this term, it's not just political fluff, blah, blah, blah. Then he laid out what this person actually does. That person is the one that will help keep the community atmosphere with that position the police chief all right would be the liaison For us between us and the and the county you know this point here Lieutenant Vogue angle and then This person would also be over that done Ellen Marine patrol and we get down into responsibilities, I'll explain more about that position. So on the Marion County Sheriff Organization side, presently it's Lieutenant Vaux Wiengle. And then when we make this clear, she reports to the Marion County Sheriff Organization. She does not report to us, She does not need five people spinning her six ways to Sunday, and I'll speak for myself, at least one of those five, don't know what you're talking about, so she don't need to hear from me. If there's any issues, we'll bring him up. I mean, she has an open door policy, so at any time any of us have issues. And we've all spoken to her. She is there to talk to us and listen to us. But so we don't burden her. The police chief would be the liaison and any concerns taken to her. They would address them or bring them back to us. And then under her you would have the six six deputies that would operate within the town. Okay, the deputy responsibilities roughly would be dedicated deputies that will work within the city limits. They will do the city-owned building checks at night, do the business building checks at night. So no change there. A question is traffic enforcement. Traffic enforcement, like such a speeding. And the other one is, is vehicle crashes. That was a big one. We have high 200 vehicle crashes last year. And was a typical year and the last thing we can do is have in most of them happen on 484 and 41. So the last thing anybody wants trying to get home from work or any other time is to sit there and traffic back up for an hour because FHP is not, they only have, they're very limited on resources. So it truly is a long wait time if they have to respond. Sheriff Woods has told us that he will train the deputies to be able to do vehicle crashes so that that is no longer an issue. Again, they will enforce local ordinances. They will conduct all criminal investigations. And they will become familiar with city residents and business owners. And the reason I have faith in that is speaking with Lieutenant Julie, the sergeant that is helping us out now from Mary County, Sergeant Micah. They have actually reached out to their organization to be prepared for this. And if anybody out there would be interested in working done Ellen. We're hearing everything from on. Nobody's going to want to work done Ellen is too boring or everything under the sun that you can imagine. But they receive back in response is at least eight. That's just the number that I remember of eight deputies and good deputies that would like to work this area. There are folks that are community oriented, folks that maybe want to slow down. You know, they had their day in the sun working the hood and all that, all the excitement. And as there all right, I just want to tell you all this as I sat there with Lieutenant Julie and Sergeant Micah Sergeant Mike was putting out names and Lieutenant Julie was go. Oh, that's a good one, you know And that's it was either I'm not sure I know that person or Wow, that's a good officer so that gave me the confidence that they weren't just blowing smoke. Excuse me. Okay, DPD responsibilities. This would be the chief community resource position. This person would be the contract manager for MCS support. This person would attend all the council meetings. Would be a daily liaison to the Mayor and County Sheriff's Organization, Marine Patrol, community outreach, if there's any issues or anything. He would keep his finger on the pulse, he or she. And we keep the mayor and council updated on emergent issues and this person would also stay our emergency manager to take care of storms and any other issues that may come about. River patrols and other ones. the, you know, during the heavy season, the river can become pretty frantic and without law enforcement out there, it will, it definitely becomes unsafe. Mary and County will continue to patrol the entire river. I live on the river, so I know kind of their their routine and it's worked out very well. The sheriff's organization does do the entire river. However, with Don Ellen providing river patrol, they're allowed to concentrate on the problems more on the northern end of the rainbow river, which lets Don Ellen concentrate on the problem areas that we have at the southern end, which is mostly the two were take out and were the two rivers meet and then a couple other areas. So with that, Dunnell and PD, the recommendation is to maintain our existing marine patrol budget. The Dunnell and the Marine Patrol will be maintained by the chief and reserve officers. Reserve officers, because they're certified officers, can and will enforce the city ordinances and the state laws for where they patrol. And you know, question is, does anybody want to do that position? The reserve officers do things like this because they have to do so many hours a month to stay, keep their certification, to keep their law enforcement certification. And to patrol the Rainbow River, to keep that certification up is highly sought after. I mean, you have to go out there and be on the beautiful river. Unfortunately, maybe deal with a few people that just don't understand the rules. But for the most part, it's pretty good duty and they like it. like it's getting people to do people to do marine patrol does not sound like it's going to be an issue I'm gonna go the other another Problem not really a problem spot and another one that when it's in the season is a problem spot And that's the blue run park Presently the way it is is Durnit heavy tuber season the agreement with the county is and I believe capy hole pays the detail for this That during the heavy season There's a Mary County Sheriff deputy that sits up there by the parking lot to protect out Take care of any issues there That will stay the same it will not be our one of our six deputies down there doing that, taken away from the rest of the city. The Dunnell Police Department, by maintaining the Marine Patrol, will still take care of the water side where it gets to be a big problem down by the bridge as the TuberTech out and we can do that. And then as always, both organizations, if they need help, once potter another, they take off and they go help each other. There will be no change there. Okay, vehicles kind of spoke to this a little bit earlier. The Sheriff's Office will enforce trafficking and parking interactions. The Sheriff's Office deputies will respond to vehicle accidents within the city limits. Now this is not the new, but whenever there is serious injury or fatality accidents, that remains with Lord of Highway Patrol. That will continue. So there's nothing different there. Okay, we get to a location that the chief will be located out of City Hall here. There's We have an empty office here that will suit the needs there. I got here most any. There's an empty office here that will sue the needs there. I got here most any public interface with the Dunnell Police Department can occur at this location. So that takes away the need of the existing Dunnell Police Department. The American Sheriff's Office is located out by the firehouse where the DMV is and that's where the lieutenant will be and that's where the deputies will work out of. The report there and but you know they report there to Lieutenant Julie or their bosses but they will come back here and service this area when they're on duty. And the public can also contact the American Sheriff Office at that location, any concerns that they have if they so desire. Okay, equipment. The Sheriff's Cell Foundation maintain all necessary equipment. Uniforms, vehicles, and related supplies that comes right out of the proposal that the sheriff gave us. At the council's discretion, the current Dunham Police Department building can be surplus, then I hear, whatever the length went. hear your concern about a trial period. And we'll take that into account. And the same thing, the DPDX, your vehicle's in equipment, because the sheriff has mentioned that he doesn't have any need for our vehicles, so those can be surplus as this council decides. The finances. The proposal in front of us right now is for the six deputies. There are 128, five memberite, there are 128K in change for the six of them. For an entire year that comes to be $668,000. The annual budget for this year for DPD is 1.4 million. Now, so that gives you a difference of $600, almost $647,000. But so we took a look to see okay, it's just not that simple. There's revenues that will be lost once we don't have all of our officers and everything and that's roughly $30,000. Then we carry an Allian item, it's kind of a balanced, a budget Allian item for $93000. That has to be removed from that $647,000 also. And then the chief position is roughly 100K, so that has to be removed from the $646. And then put in their $50,000 for stuff that we're just not thinking of, that we would maybe have to have. And that brings us right around $370,000 in potential annual savings. And spoke with Sheriff Woods, that has to question, would that be proactive? And yes, it would be proactive. The $760,000, $8,000 would be a retroactive number from the time that we implement this program if it's implemented. Yes, ma'am. So what do you mean by that? I apologize. What do you mean retroactive? There was a number for annual. Okay. So the seven. 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, number for annual, okay, so the seven, seven, 68 is an annual number. Naturally, I didn't want to assume anything, so I reached out to them. So if we start this, pick a date, we start this May 1st. All right, the word only, then it's not gonna be $76 768,000 dollars until October right? Okay, then yes, and then October 1 we'll start a whole new at Right that whatever the number Please no please slow me down stop me if you guys got anything. Okay, thank you, sir. The other thing I've got under a fine ass, and it's, I think it might have been Dave Paul that mentioned. I think maybe a couple people mentioned it. Excuse me. If you're going to talk, could you go outside? Yes, I was saying that I thought this meeting was gonna be about what we got won on right now, with all the regaining and we are not at all paying the campus in. Something needs to be done right now about the differences that they break in in, and at homes that they break in in. What about that? I don't feel safe here anymore. I've been a sense I was too. And I've always felt thinking this community until now. Well, that was a just criminal. Did this do the whatever they wanted? I want you to please make that statement just as soon as you can. When we finish this presentation, I would like to hear that complete presentation so that we can record it for the record because when you speak from the audience you have been recognized. No, no, no, no, no, I understand, I understand your frustration. And I understand your frustration and I am tickled to death, you're here tonight to express that. But what I'm trying to explain is that when you're not on the microphone, we don't have a record of your communication. And we want other people to be able to hear your opinion. So when we finish this presentation that Mr. N's keep is wrapping up now, I'm going to recognize you and you're going to have the opportunity to speak. I promise you just as soon as I can. Is that okay? You understand? No, no, no, no, no. But I understand. I guess I need to go through the actual foundation of this meeting. Okay. Well, you're going to have your chance to speak. I promise you. Just give me just a few minutes and let Mr. N's keep finishing his presentation. and he asked the floor now and then you're going to have your chance to speak. I promise you just give me just a few minutes and let Mr. N's keep finishing his presentation. He asked the floor now and then you're going to have that opportunity to address the citizens and this council. Mr. N's keep, would you continue? Absolutely. As we've heard earlier from the public, there are uncaptured costs and time to support the DPD that will go away. I mean, every time that there's an issue, it takes time away from the city clerk. And it's not an insignificant amount of time, is it, Mandy? It's not just a city clerk, but then it goes to the Assistant City Clerk for HR and all that. Our organization simply does not have the kind of depth that Mary and County Sheriff's Organization has. In order we have the expertise, every time we have an issue, we have to reach out to a labor attorney and pay pay extra and none of that's captured in the budget. And the numbers get very significant, very quickly. And as I put out in past meetings, we've been doing that for 17 years now. And when that also happens on the time aspect, we can't do two things at once. So the things that the City clerk's office needs to be working on does not get worked on. And with the two that I've been involved with over the last two years, we're not talking days, we're talking months of time that things are stalled and we're not working on what tax payers, I think we should you know what we should be working on for the city. The bullet number two already had to be on a pro-rated basis based on the implementation date. The contract term this is taken right out of the proposal that Sheriff Woods proposed to us. The contract term is one year with automatic renewal for success of single year terms. And the annual service agreement cost will be determined by the index CPI-U. After the first term, adjustments to the price per deputy amount will be made according to and capped at any net increases in the annual purchasing power as reflect again in the consumer price index for all urban consumers, which is CPI-U. we get questions where, you know, so if we write, you know, tickets are written, the fine money goes somewhere. So fines and forfeitures that are initiated by the deputy sheriff's will go to the county, will go to the sheriff's organization. Any law enforcement, education funds, fines collected for crime prevention on court cases, crimes within Don Ellen, paid by the city of the clerk, will be paid by the clerk directly to the county. We're getting ready to implement this red speed protection, speed detection, camera system over at the middle school and the first batch of school. The funds acquired from that, those will come to Dunnell Ellen. One that I've got in here for and I should have a question Mark, and we can clarify it. It's not a huge deal because the monies aren't that great. I've got here city ordinance fines shall remain city revenue, but that may be a topic that I may have over reached on as the where that's really going and it may not be as simple as just city ordinance. But when I look at the numbers that we have received in revenue, it's very minimal. But we just want to have everything covered in the contract so that everybody knows what's there, what's not there, and then we don't get into the debates after the fact. Now, is there going to be something learning curve, of course? But I think between both organizations, everybody is good, honest people, everybody's up for hot forth, right? I just don't see myself in any issues. Topics that I see that need a further discussion, we have to have a turnover period from a Dunn and Old Police Department to the American County Sheriff organization, which are going to take a time period to do that. Any employees that are required to do that, naturally there would be a cost. And that's things like transition, evidence, rooms, records, all those types of things. We have to give notice, 60 days notice to the DPD employees if we're going to go this route. We have to terminate applicable contracts that we have with the Dunel Police Department that we no longer need. We have to figure out what an implementation date would be best. And then we need to take a look at what is the best pay-off, best option to pay the Mayor and County Sheriff's Office for the service. Either MSTU or pay it through General Fund as we do with other service contracts. And then the other last item underneath this would be a special event support. For the special events that we have in town, That we have in town. What would that look like? Okay, for pros and cons. Okay. I filled in the blank. So if anybody, you know, naturally, if anybody up here will have conversation, things otherwise. The first one is simply the finances. The finances look like a pro. And this is if we go with the Mayor County Sheriff's Office. So finances look to be a pro. Number two, there are uncaptured costs that we spoke about with the city clerk, the assistant city clerk, public walk, works, and our finance department. That would be a pro for going with the Sheriff's Office. The uncaptured attorney cost that we see every year. That would be a pro for going with the Sheriff's Office. The need to have a bargaining unit contract would go away and We have a, every year we have an openers in the contract which we really don't budget and every, every two years so many articles get open every third year it's a major reopening. The annual budget for the most part will be fixed except for the CPI increase. Right now based on the way that we are doing with working with the Dunn-Earth Police Department, the City Clerk is totally separate from the police department. They have nothing to, they don't, police department does not fall. Underneath the City Clerk's office, the City Clerk's office is really, there's any support that's supposed to be very minimal. The support is anything other than minimal. And as we said before, the City Clerk's office is simply getting backed up on their work. And it's possible to follow everything. When the City Clerk's Office has to follow too much, then if you've got to follow four different products and you only have time to follow two products, you can pretty much guarantee two products are going to be a failure. They're not going to look good. So the need to hire a city manager, if we keep the Donnell and police department, I think in my opinion anyways, and the city clerk's opinion is a must. Like somebody mentioned before, with a tiny tax base, with the size of Donnell, and Dunnell will be able to share in a much better economy of scale with the Marion County Sheriff's Office. For future needs, we won't require new police building. We won't require tracking and keeping up with new policies for law enforcement is an incredible task because they change yearly and I may be way underestimating that. Again, we don't have the depth to follow those kinds of things. In the sheriff organization, they do it day in and day out. They have experts and that's what they do. And we could share, we'd be able to share that. The sheriff's office is a better position to expand resources as the city grows. We've heard folks say that the development that we're talking about that we're not going to let happen, that would basically almost double the size of Dunnelland. So we hear, yo, we're going to have double the DPD and all that. With the Sheriff's Organization, as this area expands, we talk to the sheriff and he can add another $128,000 resource to take care of that particular area instead of us having to add more of everything. Technology is another one. Technology upgrades, you know, it's no different than us at home with our computers. By the time you get the computer out of the box, it's already obsolete. And that's what's happened, you know, that's what happens with us. So to stay on top of all that is, for a small town, it's just crazy expensive. And again, it all comes down to the economy of scale. And we are on the worst end of economy of scale. The sheriff's office is on the best end of economy of scale. the departmental depth, the Sheriff's Office, have people that they have professional resource experience that their only focus is on law enforcement, such as HR, attorney, supervision, everything that I've just mentioned. department depth is is something that we will never achieve, and that will get us in trouble one day. One of the most, if not the most, litigated, I call it a business in this country is law enforcement. And it's not getting better, it's going the other way. And so for us to be out there kind of winging it, doing the best we can with what we got, but that's not going to settle the court case in our favor. The cities, I think somebody else brought this up. The cities in the neighboring county that have contracted with their sheriff's office, Inverness and Crystal River. Couple of us purposely went to Inverness and Crystal River. So we would be outside Mary and County because we didn't want somebody to tell us what they think that what they think Billy Woods would want us to tell us, what Sheriff Woods tell us, all right? So we did not want that bias. We did not want people coming up and say, well of, they told you that, you know. And both cities have been doing this for years. They've already been through their drawing pains, so they were able to get us up to speed, so we don't have to go through any of the same pains. And both of them could not have recommended more highly, it could not be happier with the program that they have. And with that, I'll answer. Sorry, I know there's a lot to hear and a lot to digest everybody and listen and I'm a horrible speaker. I apologize for that. These documents are online, all right. For anybody to see, we can reach out to the City Clerk's office, reach out to me, and we'll get anybody to send a rest and see in this, seeing this, the information. So if they have any questions or concerns. We'll move now. Is there anyone on the council who would have a question for Tim or any of the material that was presented? Yeah, Rex. Yeah. Tim, Councillor Nencky. When you stated it in the last thing in the future, if we add resources, are those resources going to be added? Mary and County will be picking them up as so they accept that subdivision goes in. because the way I figured it, they had 550 houses at say $250,000 a piece. The tax bill on that for each house was about $2,000, so that would be over $1,000 to Mary and County. But when I worked out what the millage rate was for Dunnelling, it would be like $134,000. So if we have to spend $100,000 in officer, we're gonna make $134,000, but we're gonna have to spend $100,000 for an officer. And that's one of the big problems that I saw happen in Paul Mental Bay, was that the count, whatever money we made in the city, in the village, it was, if we needed more police officers, it was taken up. So from from what you said are they going to be then increasing our officer allocation for free or do we have to pay for that? Oh no, this is a contract. This is a service that they're offering us and we're paying on their cart. So right now the price for officers is roughly 128K. If we see the need and they'll probably be the one that's given us the input because they'll know what the call volume is. So if the need is there due to call volume, then if, let's just, if argument's sake, we need to add another deputy, right, instead of sex, we will be paying for seven deputies. But you see what I'm saying, where we could get into a position where if we need more deputies, it could actually, in the long run, be detrimental to us because with every subdivision comes all the other associated costs we have to pay for the roads and everything else. that we're getting, say, like $100,000 in extra taxes, per subdivision, and we're only clearing $30,000. It's not gonna be enough. So I was wondering could we make one of the provisions in this contract where for every say million dollars of revenue, marrying county gets off of new buildings in the actual done island area that we get $100,000 credit in that so that we get the officer because as the tax base is the tax the tax structure isn't lined up like that. Okay. We pay so much a millage to the county for general then you have all the school stuff and then there's a separate line item for Dunnell and then the millage is like 5.3. I understand it. All I'm saying is, can it be in there to where if the county gets, say like that subdivision comes in and there's an extra million dollars going to the county? I don't see the county agreeing with that because the county's expenses are also going to go up for everything that the millage, you know, when we pay our taxes, whatever, when there's new houses or new more people or whatever, then the county also has expenses and that's what that general fund, the county general fund is for. And we don't lose any money. But how does the county wouldn't have extra expenses because they're going to charge her for fire rescue. They're going to, we're going to be paying for the police. If the subdivisions inside the town, we have to pay for the maintenance of the maintenance. So you understand what I'm saying. Where is, we have to end up adding two or three officers with the money that because of the increase. We would have to anyways whether it's accounting or whether it's done LPD. With done LPD we would have to add even more overhead. So with what we're getting right now we get to share in economy of scale and we get a share in the overhead that the Sheriff's Department Harvey has in place. Okay. And, Rex, if I may. Yeah. No, thank you, sir. Again, if we have any developments come in, one house or one million houses, right? We need to be charging just as many honey gas and impact fee. Right. That way we have the roads taken care of. We do a development agreement. Well, we don't do water anymore. So, but we have development agreement that they're the ones that have to put in the turn signs. They're going to be the ones that are going to have to pay for the red lights. you know, that, the again, because we will have to hire two more police officers, and I don't know how that would work. If we do an impact fee, can we use some of those funds to go to the Marion County Sheriff's Department for police? I'm not sure how that all works because I know there's all those technical things. Shawna has to take care of course. But that would and then the City of Denellin will receive their 5.345 milled rate every year and then Mary and canny still gets their milled rate from that new homeowner. So really I think our expenses are, and if we have to raise our military to accommodate for 15 new police officers, we're going to have to do that anyway. If they're already PD or if they're sure of DPD. Is that does that make sense? Yeah, that was a valid simplified version. Why would you have anything? Questions for Tamol Niddis? No. I went through all the before. Tam went through it. I had a couple of notes. They're insignificant things that we need to address. One thing I could hit me was insurance. The impact on our insurance, if we're not having our own police department, what does that say? And not ensuring ten all of them, what does that say? I mean these are insignificant numbers to me. I think you captured the absolute bulk of all this. The items you mentioned, I grabbed all that stuff out of the budget, so that's part of the labor. Okay. But no, and the correct, your question's good. I mean, we have a huge development. If we have a RUNPD, we've got to have more police. If Marion County, well, they're gonna ask for a ride. So, like Marion, you know what I'm saying yeah, it's going to cost us more. But right now, I think this shows me that it costs more to run it on P.E. by a person that it would American kind of share until it gets to a point where, you know, they have the same number of officers to cost more American Mary County. They're not a loss here. Yeah. OK, but I think a good question. Because these things are going to happen. Well, I think that in the future is that what's going to happen is that development or others go in is we're going to have to look at making an MSTU for that development to pay for the police officers. Absolutely. It's for road and everything else too. This is something we got to do. But no, I think, I thought your presentation was very clear, very detailed in the law to it. I hope the citizens can follow that. I had an update, so that it will be know it for about the reduction. Miss, Miss, if I can, and I don't know if this is the right time or not, but, you know, again, I've been out talking to people, having phone calls and those types of things. And I, I know, tempted his presentation. I really did try, but I have, I didn't, anyway, hit it in the bus and it's right to send it to me and the, but the things that I know that I think have been a concern for the business owners and for the residents that they want to see either our DPD reform from now on or they want to see the Sheriff's Department perform for us. And as a City Council, I think we have to have good leadership no matter what it is to produce an atmosphere that will encourage our police officers, be it one or be it 50, and then make sure that we are giving them all the resources to protect us, to serve us and most importantly to go home to their families at night. That's number one. We need to make sure that we are here to provide, however we do this, all the resources that they need from us. some some of the things that have really been talked to, and I've gone to, you know, the Chamber of Commerce meetings, and we did that breakfast the other morning, when I've gone and talked to other business centers, is that they really, really want our Dinellen Police Department and or Sheriff to be very community-forward That is they want the police and I'm just going to take police officers so please if I'm talking to Sheriff's officer I apologize. But they really want those police officers to go and introduce themselves to not only the owners, but to the employees. For that, the employees know that they can pick up a phone and call, you know, officer-fread, when they just think something's not right with somebody. But they want to make sure that they have good reports. That they just be, I mean, I've had hairdressers just say that they'd love for them just to come in, say hello, you know, kind of joke around with them for a few minutes. and just kind of what the, the, the, the, the, the is active with them. They've wanted to make sure that assisting businesses identify security and deficiencies. So when we have those blank areas outside a door that they can come by and say, you know, really you should cut that back down and your line of sight is going to be better for your employees to walk in and out at nights or whatever it might be, you know, add an extra bolt up here. It could be the simple things or it could be the new modern, you know, TVs. I know the Chamber has even said to me that they didn't like for the Dynompid to have like a liaison where they come and talk to them, even if it's a quarter, you know, they don't have to come to every mean. But to be more community involved that they hear what the businesses are saying and that they can tell them what the police are saying as well. And then again, bringing communities we used to have a lot of community involvement. I remember bringing down teddy bears to the police department. I got rid of so many stuffed animals. I wish we would really do that again. But when kids come into our police department, that there's something there for them. And I'm not saying that's what we have to do, but those types of things, the programs where they have the kids' car seats being, you know, grandmother's not knowing how to put in those new car seats. And having a that maybe they we can all go down and learn how to get them done right. Trust me, it's impossible. You know, neighborhood porch lights where you go out on your front porch and you talk and the police come by and say hi to you every third month or so. Whatever. I'm just saying that's some of the ideas that people have given me of how they want to see their place officers, sheriffs, officers, interact with them. And then just be a better presence on social media with those types of community involvement. And that's something that no matter how we go, where we go, I think that's what we need to. That's what our citizens are asking for, our business owners are asking for. And so that's what I'd like to make sure that we can. And I don't know how you put it in a contract, but put it in a contract, either with our chief of police and our department or with a sheriff's department. So I think we need to give clear goals that we can have measured, especially if we go with, well, any department. However we do it, I think we need to, but the citizens know these are the goals that we want from our police department or our sheriff's department. These are the goals that we're giving them and this is how we we want to get to those goals. And we'll report on it every three months or whatever it is. And I really think the mayor should be the point of contact the liaison for any of the chief and or sheriff's and or both. And we just need to set up our DPD for success and not for failure. And I think that's sadly what we've done. Correct. Did you think that? Oh, I guess we're asked. This young lady brought up a very good point. And I think despite everything we say tonight, what she said is what we're really here for. She doesn't feel safe in the community. And this has been a nagging question for me. and I don't like to ask the Marion County officials who are here tonight. If one of you could stand up here and tell us what would be different for us, we've had a list of break-ins and the general consensus is nothing that's good to done. And what I would like you to do is to tell us what the difference is going to be between how we've been doing things and how you're going to handle things so that she has a better idea of what's going to go on. Rex, I appreciate this input and at this point in time, I think it would be better if we honor the public comments now so you could hear the public comments on the record and then you'd be able to respond better. Is that okay? I recognize yes ma'am you're your first step up and speak. You would come to the podium so we'll have you on the microphone. No ma'am, yes please, please come to the podium. Yes ma'am. I have been living here since I was two. Okay, well, what we're doing. And this is, this is, I mean, this is horrible. Let me help you just a moment. Because I know when, if I was coming to that podium and I'd been here since I was two, I would be exasperated as you are. But what we need is you to give us your name and your address so that this is for the record, because this is something that we want our public to hear. And then... you are. But what we need is you to give us your name and your address so that this is for the record because this is something that we want our public to hear and they need to know who you are and where you live. My name is Darius Tassen. I live in one, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, the Grenada. Yes ma'am. Please proceed. Okay. You don't remember me? I just bring your ice water at the gas station when we had the hurricane. Yes, ma'am I certainly do and and we're happy. I mean I happy you're here. I know y'all will have to go through this, but right now Our community is basically on the siege We have all these break-ins and I know that they think I feel like they do on the best They can't like I say I fancy cars. When I come to work is dark. And sometimes there is a police vehicle waiting. Because I'm alone when I come. The other person, she has a husband who needs to come. But these jackals, vendors, they just running wild over us like, you know, they just like kids in a candy store. And I don't feel safe at the business that I work at anymore, which I have worked there on and off over 30 years. And I have never not gone safe going there. But now several of the break-ins have been close to my home. So if I go home at night, I'm scared now, which I have never been. And I think the main concern should be how to stop this breaking in, this bandalizing, this just terrorizing our community. Basically, I feel like we are at the mercy of these people. And all these 63 years that I have lived here, we didn't have people like these. Fans are changing, they have changed. And we got to change with them. We got to do better because we deal with a different class of people. Don Ellen was the safest place I was proud to raise my children here and everything, but I don't feel that way anymore. And I think the main thing we should do right now is to stop these people. And all these implementation jobs, they're all right. But in the meantime, they are breaking in and they are moved. They're getting closer. I think they're gonna move from businesses to homes. So how would you like to come home and someone's broken into your house and they're in your home? They doing the bambles are doing their homework. They going in, they scoping out, they seeing what time nobody's here to watch the building, they seeing what time it's open, they coming in the building, seeing what doing like like a layout on how to convert you to steal what they want to steal and lead. They have a plane we need one to stop them. Because basically at this point, we are just under the mercy of these people that have moved here and from other places. And this is what they do. and our police department has really never had to deal with these county. So I think what we should do is we should get the law together so that these people can't be stopped because at this point they don't care what they do. They just feel like they can just break in whatever they want to break in, analyze whatever they want to analyze, and they basically laugh in that hour, police department, because they keep doing it. And they're gonna continue to do it until something is put in place to stop them. That's the way I see it. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. miss Townsend you're not wrong you But she like to speak. Yes, sir welcome My name is but let's say he can I mean one one seven one one the other no street One of my things is speeding I Go to to this church up here, across the music co-station. We come out of church on Sunday. You're taking your left and your hand, pulling out that parking lot. So that car is coming down to the 50, 50, 60 mile an hour. And it's going to be a bad, excellent one day. It's going to be too late to say, oh, we should have done something about it. Same thing happened. I'm a part of that building up there. 11868 North Williams. We had just completed replacing the woodwork on the front of that building, put new windows in there. What happened? Two cars ran into the building. One was speeding, another one couldn't stop. And one other thing, like I said, when they have no street, we have four restops there. But nobody is paying attention to the four restops. They come through there sometimes, six to an hour now, or more. You also have school buses come down there during the morning. And the people are running and stops and almost about hit school buses. And I know we don't have the resources to monitor that area at that time, but it's a bad spot. And you know, we just need to think about what we can do about these things. That's all I have. Thank you, Zulette. Thank you. Who would have anyone else want to wish to speak from the audience? Yeah, Paul. Welcome, Joanne. Hey, are you alone? Now we're in trouble. You are. Now we're in trouble. You are. I'm John Black. My address is protected. But, you know, I'm, I, I'm not here and I'm, I'm kind of shocked. You know, I've been with this police department over, I was worked here over, you know, 18, almost 19 years and when it came up this issue, this, this used to be packed. And people here protecting the police department, and I'm sad to see that so many people are don't have any pride with their police anymore, they don't trust their police, and it just hurts me because I've never had that when I was a chief. I never had that when I was an officer. I knew all these people, and then when they had a complaint, we took care of it. And to have this, it just hurts my heart, because Daniela is still my hometown. I'm still the president of the chamber. And I'm still the president of the chamber and I still live around here. And the sheriff's permit, nothing is y'all. I worked with all of them. Great people. I think they'll do a great job. They do have the resources. But the people to hear not one person come up here and say, save my police permit. I'm just shocked. And it just, it's sad. And nothing against, you know, Captain, I know he came in, he took over, you all had some turmoil going on, but community pleasing is kind of pleasing. You know, everything Valerie has said I did, you know, you can do it. It doesn't cost anything to do community pleasing and enforcing traffic is easy, but you just have to be a part of the community. And Captain Brey called me, we hemmed, I had a lot of conversations, gave him some advice what to do, but you have to just change, and you don't protect these people. And whether you stay deput-y or you go with the Sheriff's Department's sure choice, but community policing has to come back. That is number one, and whoever you do have in charge, If it's the Sheriff's department and you have liaison you make sure they know their people because that was you know I used to tell people I don't work for the council. I know I only get my paycheck from the city but I worked for them and I made my officers do the same thing. You don't work for me you work for them. They pay our bills so we make sure we're out there and have to be seen and I just think it's missing that there's no presence here. So we have to get this police out there. We have to get them to doing things not sitting anywhere else. But being a citizen, when you see police officers doing traffic stops and doing stuff, then they know there's a police presence. And I heard from my feelings that she sits there and says that she's afraid to go home. That's never, I've never heard that in Denellin. It's one of the safest places we had. And so I hope, whatever way you go, that you make sure that you do have a community policing back. And I know the sheriff's department will do a great job. But these officers, I'm concerned of them, where are they going to go? Are they going to get hired? I don't know if they were hired as misfits from somewhere else. It happens, but please, just our citizens is what we should be protecting and making sure they're safe when they go to work and they go home. And just to sit here, and I'm waiting for somebody to come up here and say, I'm for the police department and I haven't heard it yet. And I've never seen that in the history of Denellin. like I said, they tried to take away, when I became chiefs they took away our cars. We had people all the way in the park and not fighting it. I think Mandy remembers that so they came in full force to fight and you don't see it now and I'm sorry. I mean I don't work here but I'm sorry for everything they're going through and and I know Julie I know her very well and she's great I just feel sad for them and I'm hoping that whatever decision you make we have put our citizens first so thank you Joanne and I appreciate it. Thank you Joanne. Is there anyone else who would like to Yes, Brenda, welcome. Brenda, do. Yes, she comes. Yes. Brenda, Diarve 11661, Camp Drive, D'Alelan. I am for the police department. But whatever decision is made, there does have to be strong community presence. I too have been concerned with what's going on with the break-ins and so forth. I live in Blue Cove, some of you may know that. In the past four months, I've had two incidents where I had to order people off of my property and threaten to call the police. And I got pushed back from them. And I had to take a very firm stance. I also had an incident when I went to publics at night. And there for lack of better terms was I would think they look like gangs in the parking lot and going around. There are over a dozen people. And I said in my car, I'm afraid to get out and go into publics until they kind of got away from the car. I waited until people came in the light and the people were around to go in publics. And so when I checked out from publics, they asked everything, okay, I said yes, but I would like someone to escort me to my vehicle. And I told him, one, they said, oh yeah, he says, there's usually police out there. I said, there were no police out there. So that incident, I said, well, I will not go shop at publics at night. So I personally experience it, not to the level you have, but there have, things are changing. And yes, I'm for the police department and we have to have a strong community presence if we are going to keep the character of the community that we want. Otherwise, people would just be driving through. There's no connection. We will lose the community standards that we've fought so hard to keep. So I hope as you are making your decision, if it's just we keep our chief of police, so that we don't have to mend our charter, I think that you will really put the details in the responsibilities and that the Sheriff's Department, if they come in with this hybrid model, do understand we have to have strong community presence. Thank you. Thank you, Linda. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? Anyone else? I would now like to recognize our representatives from Billy Woods and the Marion County Sheriff's Department. Hi Evening So I'd like to address first the Commercial burglaries so when the sheriff signed for me to be the interim chief we took on ten historical commercial burglaries That had not been investigated by the Deninoan Police Department. Initial report was written but they had not been investigated. We've had an additional burglary. I believe it was last Wednesday morning. That's home, right? Sergeant Moore? Yes. At the Bingo Hall. I do have a full-time detective, detective Hoffler. He is working on the and Denonolline cases. That's his full time job right now. He's not working anything within the county. I can't speak on everything that he's doing right now because they're open investigations, but he is working those cases. Okay, so just so you know that. I'm not aware of any residential burglaries in the city limits of denollin. The first room in the lower building is in the room. Okay, was it recorded? Yes, it was recorded. Do you know the... That's the only residential room. When was that? That was the only residential room. Do you have an address on the residential work, Larry? Do you have an address on the residential so I can look into it? I can't read it with the address. It's on McKinney. Okay. We'll look into it. But we are looking into those and he is working those just so that you guys know. The issue at publics, if you see something or think something's going on, you have to call 911 because the officers aren't going to be everywhere. So call in, somebody can respond and then make you feel safe to be able to go in and check those people out But a lot of times we always get calls after the fact of something that's going on So you have to call it the time that happens and just call 911 So unfortunately I didn't realize we're gonna have an opportunity to speak so I didn't prepare anything but Just just some of the comments that I've heard revolver on community policing. So I wanted to tell you how the structure of the sheriff's office. We have our district offices. There's 12 different districts. And each district has its own lieutenant, like Lieutenant Bowinkel. And they're the sheriff of that area. They're responsible for everything that happens in that community. They're the ones that come to us and say, hey, we need this resource. We need that. They're also part of their job as attending community meetings so they can be heard by the citizens in their area. We do that already. The Southeast District Commander, he goes to the Ohio Business Leaders' breakfast. I think it's every two weeks. Don't quote me on that. So, some of the best of the meetings we go to those, the list goes on and on. We provide presentations, if you have a need for a community presentation on, keeping your home safe or whatever, telephone scams or drugs, we provide those community presentations now. So we practice community placing, if that's a concern of yours, that's what we do now. So that tradition will continue here in Denonement if you decide that a partnership with the sheriff's office is what you determine is the best for your community. So really we just came here to answer any questions that you all may have with us. Valerie I spoke with y'all the other day and I appreciate it that time. Again, I just wanted to put my thoughts on what I have been told. And I know y'all do a community policing, but I just want to make sure that that's what I had the citizens really want from us, regardless of who we have, protecting them. And again, making sure that they get to go home safe at night. That's the most, you know, this is the point as our safety as well. I have no questions at this time. When we get to the contracts, that's one of the more questions. We're not the people to ask about that. I'm going to do that to you. Beautiful. Great. Wally? No, I think you've heard from the people here. I forgot I got to pull that down. But no, you've heard from the citizens. And I think this thing about this breaking ends with the businesses and the crimes with the businesses. I know it kept circulating. It seemed like, gosh, it was just happening all the time. And I didn't know, currently, what the status was. I'm glad that somebody in a detective with y'all is now investigating this because, you know, I almost wonder if it's a group that they're just doing them over and over again, or is it they're all independent? I don't know. But I do think- I don't have stones, but you know, the previous administration we've offered, the numerous resources, and they just weren't accepted. They weren't asked for it. Oh, well, but that's- But that's not- But I do appreciate y'all looking into that for us. And again, if we've got this problem around homes, that's huge. I mean, I had not heard that until you all said that. Because again, I've been around Don Ellen for 60 years. And my mom lived here 40 years by herself. And I never were about this town. But you know, you start seeing this and it's happening everywhere. But I do think we've got to step it up and be involved more in the community and we've got to provide the citizens of Dunnellan, the best policeman we can. And I'm watching kind of what the PD had been doing, nothing against Ron and those folks and what y'all can do and I do think the resources y'all can bring us would probably be a lot better than we went out and tried to hire it. But I do appreciate y'all looking into that portion. Tim? No, I do not. I'm good. Thank you. Well, I think we've heard a lot tonight and I think it's been informative and that was an opportunity for our citizens to speak and as Joanne mentioned in the past, it has created a great deal of stirring up community anytime we've You know had issues concerning the security of the city. city. And I share this concern for these break-ins. I did this disregard for our laws and our order in our city. I don't appreciate it. When I grew up in this town, I didn't know where our house key was. I knew that when we left town over a period of time, the daddy always locked the house, but I never knew where the key was. I never had a key to come home. I lived two blocks from the school. I went home for lunch. I mean, I know we're never going back to that. But I appreciate Miss Townsend's position on that. It says, what she's seen, our community change into, and it's not a pretty picture for our long time citizens, and it's not something we are going to accept. And we want to provide all the tools necessary to have the security that we hope for for our businesses and our citizens. And I'm entrusting our Sheriff's Department and our Police Department to carry that old forward and I feel confident with your leadership that if we make that choice that's the direction that we're going to be going in. And I appreciate very much you being here tonight and I'll just close if there's anyone that had one more question but did you have something? I had one say I didn't see you on the first one I'm very well-temped. I like saying she wasn't she. She had no way of good luck, no way to eat. And at the end of time I followed her and anything. She always did mad'm exactly what you want. And I appreciate that. Thank you, butch. Joanne, I'm in that's echoed by many people in this community as you well know. Anyone else? No one else? OK, well. Council, anything else? No, next steps. Okay. All right. Well, thank you. Yes sir. Yes sir. Yes sir. All right, Tim, do you want to have something else you want to follow up with at this point? Please, we just, where do we think we're going? Going to from here. I'm going to from here. So are we, I mean if I had to vote tonight, I think I would vote. I mean, caveat that I think I would vote where we did the hybrid, where we keep our water water. And I think that's what you said as well. We keep, of course, our chief. I'd like to do, you know, if Valerie just gets to do what she wants to do, I'd like to go into a year or two contract our sheriff, especially for the first year, to really see if this is what works best for the city of Denom, for the residents. And for the sheriff's department, we might be just such a hot mess they don't want to solve it. So I really think and to make sure that in all fairness to the shares from it, I know he knows what his numbers are but to really make sure that his numbers are what are best for him and the whole Mary County. I don't want to get rid of our police department yet, even though it needs to go away for so many reasons. And I don't want to get rid of our assets at this moment. I'd like really for that in first year to see how this works, where we're coming from. I know that doesn't save us money on insurance and and I know we still have to go kick the tires and turn on the engines every three days or whatever it is we'd like have to do. But I think as a responsible counsel, that would be, in my opinion, probably the best thing for us to do for that citizens can see how this works, we can see how this works and the sheriff can see how this works and then we go from there and that would also give us time at the end of that year if we think wow we really want our own officers, our own people here. some of those of those sheriff's officers might say, hey, we'd love to come up for D'Ana on PD. And maybe we don't need any, a 10 man office any longer. Maybe we could just do six plus our chief. I think it really would give us a chance to not take two or three council meetings to find the new sheriff. A new chief member, please. But to take that next six months or eight months to really rebuild, if that's what we think as a city council and if the citizens think that's where we could go. So I don't want us to go out the baby in the water and the bath tub water, but to refresh the water and see what we can go from there. Okay, so just from Claire, I just want to understand. So we have contracted right now with Lieutenant Volwinkle and Mary County Sheriff Department for 90 days to be our interim police chief, right? So basically we have 90 days to decide what we're gonna do. Any more? What? We've used up a lot of this. I know, I know. What I'm saying is we're already in the process. So, I really, I'll just, I have, I have no ideas on it. I just wanted to understand what the procedure is. So we're going to be keeping them and then we're going to be looking at implementing the hybrid department as if we decide to go that way. And okay, that's it. I just want to do. Okay, I'm fine. I mean, they'd have to come to us with a contract. Yeah. Attorney has to view, so probably have to do it. I mean, this is a ballerine thought. We probably have to do an extension on our 90 days to, I just thinking just attorneys and contracts and sessions and having one more workshop to make sure that the citizens really know what the high-read and such would be that would be my opinion. May I say something? Well, rather than have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to say, I just have to look at repairing them or placing them anyway. If you were going to do something like that, I would suggest it take the surplus and you put it in a reserve for a period of time until you decide whether or not you're going to try to come back and restructure or be built a police department. I just wouldn't recommend holding onto them. I would just and if we do decide if it doesn't work out, we don't have to eat the whole enchilada in one bite. We can phase back in. And then that's probably going to be financially the best option, too, would be to phase back in instead of going. No, that's okay. And I need to have some issue with that thought, but I think a deep takeer. I just figure if you get rid of it, just hang on to the money. Just designate a restrictive reserve and hold on to it for a couple of years. Well, I think this has been extremely informative. I agree with what Mande just said. I think if we have, I have so many cars and trucks. Yeah, you got to run. Or they don't last. But I think Tim's idea of, let's, if we get to the point where our first of all, let me back up. We can't do without a police chief. It's in our charter. It would take a vote of the people to change the charter. So that option is not on the take. It has to be here. Now whether we contract out and how we handle that, that's what we're really talking about right now. The thing about the assets, I agree with Tim, I think, and where we are. If the assets that we can dispose of and save that money, put it in a separate reserve for the police, to be only used for the police makes a lot of sense. Building it hit me when I was here before, We ran into a problem with the tasers, cameras, all that mess and I don't know where it stands now. But it seems like we signed a contract for like five years to have that stuff always up to date, always the latest programs, so all that stuff worked. I don't know how we get out of that contract, or can we sell that equipment to another PD somewhere that they can use it or sell it to the Marin County share. I know there's some contracts, what I'm getting at is there, in addition to the vehicles, we sign contracts for certain things like tasers, body cameras, and all that one I was here before, trying to get everything up speed, and I know we're nowhere near the five years and we're at that stand. So that's something we'll have to look into, and how to handle getting out of that. Do we cancel the contract? Do we have to give it away? Can we sell it? Well, that's something we'll have to deal into. I had one more thought. Oh, I don't know what the other thought was. We have a reserve if I remember right, sitting on our books, in Tim you know more about the books and I can remember, but it seems like we have a reserve right now in the financial statements of this town for about $600,000 for police building. I think whatever money we get with the sale of these vehicles and all this equipment or whatever we end up disposing of, ought to go into that same reserve, probably change it from building just to police. And again, leave it out there until we finally make a decision or where to put this or where to go. My personal opinion is I think we need to go to the hybrid method. I like the idea of having a policeman on the river that I can complain to when I see him and go to the river because I know where they sit and I just drive my boat up there and I complain to them and I usually address that. But I do like the idea because the bridge to me is the most critical point on this river, other than the KP home because that's where everybody gets out. And we do because that's in even blue run parks one thing but right down that river under that bridge it gets We need police there. And I know Ron, you and I've talked about that for years. But I think this idea of using that patrol in Marion County, that's what they're doing now. I just think this hybrid method makes a lot of sense. That's just my opinion, but I'll hold my thoughts. Kim, do you have anything to add? Yeah. Like the contract termination as the police talking about, I'm about three quarters of the way through that list. Most of them had the typical 90 day where we can get out of the stuff. And when I've done with that list, Captain Rob was going to work with me, just to verify that I'm not missing anything, mistakes, that kind of thing. And that'll be ready soon. The other thing that has to be worked out, we've got to run the numbers as what's the best way to pay for this contract and invest to you or look at it just like we look at any other service contract and see which one has the most, has the least amount of pain. I'm worried about an MSTU may call some of the taxpayers financial pain. With, we look at it as a regular service contract that is just simply used next year. That's adjusting the millage rate accordingly. May I ask a question, Mr. Mayor? So Tim, you and Lolly are my math people and Miss Shawna. So we're already, and again I know we've had, I think you showed us savings of 300,000, right? So why do we have to do, if it's already an expense that we're already doing, and we've already budgeted 1.4 million. So next year for our police department, however it works, is only going to be 800, 900,000. Just say that for one million. So there is no, I don't know why we would have to do an MST or anything since we're already, that's already a budgeted item. Right, I agree. I'm not sure about the legal side. I'm not sure about the legal side. So that's going to be basically an Andrew question. Do we have to do an MSTU? When I look around at the unincorporated communities that have in Marion County that have an enhanced program for some reason they're running it through an MSTU. I am more in favor of what you're leading to. Yeah, it does. It's already there. I can be right. Yeah. So I just want to run that by the attorneys to make sure there's not an issue about doing that. And just one thing because I keep forgetting, whoever our chief is, they might be amazing and superheroes, but they have to take vacation, they get sick. So aren't we going to have some another officer like the better word for when the chief is out, which they all deserve a day off, how do we take a two weeks off, if they're sick, how do we have another meeting? In my opinion, we need a second person, a secretary of lack of better work, not a secretary, but an administrative assistant who was maybe a police officer as well. I don't know. I just thought, please, we thought, think about it, Tim, and Wally and Rex. I'll tell you what, I'm bringing up a man who's going to have to do it. I think all of this tonight has been good. I think it's gotten a lot of ideas out and a lot of thoughts out. I like the idea of moving forward with the Sheriff's Department as we've discussed. I think financially it makes sense. I think that what's painted on the side of the car is not going to make a difference to me or anyone else as long as they're professional and they're there to serve the citizens and the businesses of Dunnell and the public involvement in our community. Once again, with businesses and citizens is going to be the telling story. They have to feel more secure in their homes. They have to feel more secure in their businesses. In this council, I believe is dedicated to providing the support for whatever it takes to get to that point. And I think with the financial considerations and the return to the citizens of Dunnell and as far as their security is concerned. I think it's the right thing to do to go ahead and move forward with our hybrid situation with our holding on to our chief, which our charter requires. And he will have several or she, he the one who has several duties that will keep them very busy as their liaison to our citizens. So I like that layout and I think it's the right direction for our city to go at this point. Can I then make a recommendation? Yes, Mark. Could we add to the agenda, Wednesday, to vote not to complete, but to start negotiations of a contract where we iron out a lot of this with the Mayor and County Sheriff because we've got 90 days, but I don't know how we can get this done in 90 days. Plus, we've give the officer 60 days. You know, what I'm really saying is could we all prepare to vote, Wednesday night that we move forward and negotiate a contract with the American insurer? Would that be amenable to everybody? That would be amenable to me. I think so, yes, sir. OK. And there's already a line out of only agenda. I was thinking there was, but I couldn't remember because they didn't have it in front of me. But I think what I'm proud and say is, I don't want to make a decision, but I think we've got where we need to, or we've got to kind of a draft of what we think the sheriff's going to be willing to do. I think we need to go ahead and agree to that and say, let's finish negotiations. Is it six officers? Is there lieutenant, an assortment now? I mean, what do we need? And what do they agree on to do for us And unless I'll get clear on this understanding, and again, that doesn't mean it's done. I mean, there's going to be a lot of work to get this done and then get the lawyers involved whenever you do anything, gotta get the lawyers involved. Okay. And Chair Floyd said that, you know, would not be a problem for them to prepare the agreement. He even asked me to send him the one that I had from Inverness. And so he has that and Marissa has that. So, you know, if that's a vote that you take on Wednesday, I'm fairly sure that by the next workshop, you might have something to consider to look at. I think that would be good. I further agree with the recommendations on the assets and the money we have set aside within the city. I think it should be an item that we fund over a period of time and it not be involved with any assessments. I think we've operated in the past where it was an item on our budget and I think that's the proper way to go. It's clean and clear for the public to understand if we start getting into assessments and things, I don't think it's necessary at this point. I think we should keep it as it is now and the assets, the 600,000 that we have set set aside that along with whatever is garnered from the equipment or any of the decisions are made. I think and I agree that should be corralled into that fund. And so it's kept in that fund until at some point in time we make another decision of how we want to dispose of those funds. I think that would be a good choice. And, Shawna, do we have any grants that are out there right now that are with, or so to say with our PD? I know I just had an audit on one, but I offhand I can't think another one currently. I thought we did. So I guess we just need to make sure we look into those. I mean, again, sorry, that was just one of those. I mean, yeah, Sunday I had thought so, because I didn't sleep. Yeah, we're very spoke Ron. If we maintain our, I'm going to call the certificate for a police department, we'll still get our computer grant and stuff like that. Okay, I just want to make sure we don't lose that. All the rest of the stuff is in that $30,000 that was subtracted from the original difference. I've just had a thought. Captain Bray is in attendance tonight. Rahm, would you like to speak to the council before we adjourn this workshop tonight? Did you have anything that you'd like to present? We're glad to hear from you. First off, I would like to thank the council for your careful consideration and your cautious approach with this. You know, pretty tough task. You know, we talked about this in the workshop. And again, you guys are faced with deciding what kind of law enforcement needs to be provided in this city be fissibly responsible and get the most bang for your buck. So I think tonight was very productive. You know, I have a lot of things that we've had to take because what's going on for the past year and a half, two years that I can speak to, but I encourage you guys to keep doing your due diligence, and I know that you will make the appropriate decision. Thank you. Any questions for Captain Bray? Thank you, Ron. Thank you. Just seeing you when we're finished. I just want to talk about today. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Do we have anything else only agenda tonight? Anyone else have anything on this issue? Just one more thing. We're going to have to determine. I'm sorry, go ahead, Tim. Go ahead. Sorry. If we propose to go, if we vote Wednesday to go with this model, at what point are we going to name the police chief? My opinion is Captain Ron is the person. He has gone along with this whole thing. He knows our struggles. You cannot get any more community oriented than Captain Ron. I've spoke to Lieutenant Julie to make sure that he's a fit for this role. The sheriff's office believes he's a good fit. And, but if we do, if we do one, we got to do the other at the same time. Many, many in total net. That's fine. But like I said, we have to set our people up for success. And therefore, the job description that we have today, I don't think. I want to make sure that maybe we all talk with the sheriff and Ron and anybody else you want to about what really is a job description, what goals do we want set, and how are we measuring those goals for that we're not leaving another employee hanging out there and then five of us are five people next time say why haven't you done your job? Good point, very good point. So I don't know if that is a task that we can help. I mean, again, we have former police chiefs that I would love for us to utilize and abuse to help us figure these things out. And if it's not, you know, always help. Yes. So I volunteer yet. So, but I think that's important that we, what, and again, even with the sheriff's former, I know we're not gonna give him a job description, but that contract needs to let be our job description, how we want it measured, and how we can measure those things. Okay, so I just have a question. So, assuming this hypermodel that Lou, Lou tenant following will, stays is she's not going to be the chief then. No sir. So our chief, our police chief will work through her and she will supervise the seven officers. Or is our guy going, his our police, he's going to supervise the seven officers. The Mary County Sheriff Lieutenant Julie, they will work strictly for her. Okay. And all food chain goes right on up through Sheriff Billy Woods. Okay, but Ron is a dotted line to the side as a liaison. Right, so he's not the actual police chief. Yes. He is the police is the police chief. Yes sir. Okay. But is duty is going to be defined in a matter that coincides with the organization that we had on the board as far as the sheriff's department and how it works its way up. I just want to make sure that we don't have two masters at the same time. No. And Sheriff Woods was as a good leader. He was very adamant with the same thing. So if we have a problem, we will go to, when we go then to, if we were to pick Captain Bray, when we go to Captain Bray or when we go to, I would think most of the time we would go to Captain Brea. This is our liaison. Because he's our liaison, but at the same time, we can always contact Lieutenant. Okay, now I'm just trying to figure out the direct chain in command. Right, because it's going to be really hard to advertise a job for a police chief and tell him, well, you're not really the chief, you are the liaison. So it's not... Okay, critical. Well, it's a unique situation because we... The charter requires the police chief. So what we're trying to do is define a role of that police chief and how that fits into this organization. And it's going to be unique, but this community I think would be a good fit for it. Because there will be prescribed duties that will work hand in hand with the Sheriff's Department and there will be prescribed duties as far as the public connection to our businesses and our citizens. that place police chief is going to be extremely busy utilizing his, his, his or her abilities. And I can see where that wouldn't be a good way to continue because we are required to have the position by our charter. I just have one more question and it's not something we need to answer tonight, but I think we all all think about it because I've had two people ask me this question. If we do this contract with Mary County in the past we did a fire department contract with the county. In each of us at own property gets an assessment on that as a separate line item on our taxes. We all know. With this contract with Mayor County Sheriff, would we then itemize this as a line item on our taxes or does it go through our budget? Okay. I would recommend going through the budget while I read it and like I said, it's confusing to people. The fire department is different. We went with the county because we couldn't afford ten full-time employees. We couldn't afford a $540,000 fire truck. I mean I was all with that extensively and so that was the reason we wanted to keep a station in Dun Allen. So we accomplished the goal of the station standing in Dun Allen. We have a $40 and we have 10 full time advanced life support personnel. So there were several items in there that built up as we moved forward in those negotiations. And they're very similar to what's taking place now. We're trying to come to the sweet spot between providing the safety and the security for the businesses and the residents of this community and the most thoughtful manner possible. And this council is dedicated to that to think out as many issues as we can to try to solve these so that we move forward together. And I think it's been a good demonstration of that. and I, you have five different individuals that are dedicated to that goal. And I think it's been a good demonstration of that tonight. You have five different individuals that are dedicated to that goal. And I'm very pleased to be serving with them. Is there anyone else who would like to say anything before I offer adjournment? Motion? I'll entertain a motion. There's a motion. I was born a second. My discussion. All those in favor say hi. Thank you ladies and gentlemen.