you you you you you you you you you Good afternoon. Today is Monday, Mayth and it is 4 o'clock. Welcome to everyone that's here on this snowy May day. I feel awkward saying that, but I guess this is the weather we're with. Megan, you want to go ahead and do roll call? Councilmember Friedstein. Here. Councilmember Gustasson. Here. Councilmember Meroll. Here. Councilmember D'Angelo. Here. And Mayor Schenk. Here. Thank you. So the first item on the agenda is public comment and this is going to be for any non-agenda item so if you haven't been to a council meeting before and you're here to talk about the draw site This is not when you're going to make your comment. This is on anything other than the agenda items So does anybody have any public comments related to that? I'm not seeing any and I guess there's none online so We will move on to administrative reports. We are Flopping our agenda tonight so that we can do the public input on the draw site first. And we have Betsy and the wonderful architect team here and I'll let you guys take it away. Thank you. Good afternoon. Can you hear me okay? It doesn't sound like it usually sounds. I think there is some sound issues. Okay. I don't know. Yeah. Sure. Let me know if you can. Speaking of the speakers. The speakers are not functioning. Okay. So I'll try to speak up. I have a little under the weather right now. So speak up if you can. Okay. The folks online can hear you. It's just they're not translating to the speaker. in the recording is picking it up this slide. Okay, great. So we are here tonight again to present on the development of the draw site housing project and with the request for Council consideration to submit the project for preliminary plan land use review. We are going to do a little bit more of a presentation tonight than we have typically done in the last few for the benefit of the people here in the audience so they can kind of see the whole evolution of the project. Most of it is going to be from Patrick and from Erica, from our design team, but with a few little pieces of input, I think from me and Greg too along the way as appropriate. So I think we're going to try to keep it to 20 minutes or less. Let's see how we do. So do you want to go to the first slide, sir? For the record, my name is Patrick Raleigh, Raleigh Design Planning. I'm joined here with Erica Golden of Site Architects. Okay. So just to set the stage and to talk about what we all kind of know about and we talk about when we say housing is a high priority in this community is that the housing conditions in this town have gotten more drastic and difficult, and especially they've always been difficult. But in the last five to 10 years, what we call the affordability gap has grown even more so, and that is the gap between what people can, who are workforce, because that's who we focus on, what our workforce can reasonably afford and what housing sales rents for. That gap has grown dramatically since COVID when a lot of the second home market exploded and values doubled throughout the upper, especially in the upper valley, but really throughout the whole valley. Mortgage rates have more than doubled since their previous, from their previous level making, purchasing even more difficult, because people's monthly payments have grown. The growth of short-term rentals, in addition to second homes, short-term rentals being VRBOs and Airbnb's, have taken what used to be sort of naturally occurring housing that might have been seasonally available as there's functionally no free market housing that's rented out on any seasonal basis. Second home, the rise in second home ownership has also taken what might have been rented housing or more affordable off the market. So we lack a moderately priced housing stock. We do have our own housing stock at housing, which is affordably priced. But from there it goes, it goes to a place where people who need to work for living can afford. On top of that we've had increasing construction costs. That's not just true for snowmass village. That's true throughout the country, maybe throughout the world. But we do have limited local construction workers. We have people driving in from rifle and parachute daily and that commute to be our construction workers, but the cost of labor is also high. So the pandemic boom cycle really widened our gap with all of those other items kind of exacerbating the issue. I do want to update you that our current rental housing waiting list is at 300. That's where we sit today. Oh, it's mentioned in that slide. So in our comprehensive plan in 2018, there was identified a need for 383 units of workforce housing. in 2023 and actually before, but the most recent housing goal was to create 185 units, which is a fraction portion. Well, that's because we did 15. Because we did 15. Right. The original goal was to do 200, and then we built 15 at coffee place, making it 185. And then in 20, so 2024, or our waiting list is sort of broken out there with 300 village employees looking for either the one in the studio and one bedroom applicants are kind of lumped together, two bedroom and three bedroom, just to show you where the demand breaks down. We, uh, with working with the council and some local partners, we developed a workforce housing master plan that was adopted in 2022, I believe, when it was finally adopted. And in that plan, we identified five potential sites that could be, that were owned by the town that had, that were capable of being developed for workforce housing. It was a plan, it was just that. We didn't really go further than evaluating sites and identifying where housing could happen. And one of those sites was this town hall draw site, which is right behind town hall here, and that we're talking about tonight. We opted collectively to have that be the first site of the five that were identified that we'd pursue because basically when it was one of the reasons was when it was given to the town, it was identified specifically at the time and in its deed for workforce housing. And that was in 1985 and 1988. It's been recommended for workforce housing. It's identified in the comprehensive plan as a site for higher density for workforce housing specifically called out in the comprehensive plan. It had greatest potential of all the sites we identified for unit density and it has excellent proximity to the center to transportation, to utilities. So we, at that time, we hired, we did a process to hire an architect and we hired the team of site architects, which Erica Golden is the principal, and brought in her extended team of site specialists to do survey soils, wildlife, wildfire, debris flow, rock-falded, all kinds of testing of phase one to identify what environmental issues were there, had a design shred and looked at many different options. And have since that time been evolving what was in the master plan conceptual design and have been continuing to test that both from an architectural standpoint and engineering standpoint and then of course with you on the council. And then again, it was brought to the voters back in November to look at scale, density, parking, all kinds of things. What's next? I think that's kind of where I pick up. You're going to pick up there? OK. We're going to go back over and kind of explain how we got to this point. I should also note that there is Sarah Ty of Connect 1 on the line, and she's available to answer questions about landscape. So the plan that you see in front of you, if you can remember back that far, was the sketch plan approval. At that time it was a single build, or I'm sorry, two buildings with a single central parking garage. Since that time, we have evolved it to what you see before us, this kind of L shape that is a single building with a garage underneath. This site plan as before utilizes the existing town hall road we have multiple outdoor amenity spaces which we'll look at when we get to the landscape plan. We have provided for a vehicular or a vehicle and a emergency vehicle turn around. There you can see my cursor right there. We have dedicated pedestrian access. We've talked about having where the sidewalk should go, how the crossings should work. And this is connecting nicely into the center and existing transit. We have 82 covered parking spaces in the subgrade parking structure. And then we have 19 that are located out in the courtyard. Sorry, there's a bit of a leg. So here's the 19 and then the entrance to the garage down below. So there's two entrances to that garage up there and lower. We have dedicated storage space that was always a comment that we received as provide a lot of storage. So we've heated that. This is the single building concept that was favored by council. And I think really we have exceptional livability in these units. The overall unit count is we've landed at 63 units. That's made up of 8 3 bedrooms, 16 2 bedrooms, 35 1 bedrooms, and four studios. I believe that matches very closely to what is desired by people at Betsy's wait list. In those 63 units, we have 95 beds, and the overall growth square footage of the project is a little over 74,000 square feet. So this is the overall site plan and we can come back to it if you'd like, but starting at A, we have community gathering down at the point site. This is in fact the draw and point site project is the full name. We have a dedicated pedestrian access along Town Hall Road. We have the entrance plaza that I discussed a few moments ago. We have some nice outdoor rooftop amenities for the residents. We have a multi-use maintenance path which is leading up to the debris flow basin which will protect this development up above. That is largely just for maintenance purposes and it's not going to be used on a day-to-day basis. We have the upper courtyard item number F which is really a wonderful outdoor amenity space for people. It's multi-generational interactions can take place outside. And I think another, you know, we have discussed about connectivity into the existing trail network. I mentioned the access to the debris flow basin. And then I previously said, here is the lower access to the garage right immediately off of Town Hall. then we have an upper access which is identified as K after you follow all the way through. So there's two levels of parking and those are how the parking spaces are accessed that are subgrade. Here is just a detail of the wonderful landscape plan that Connect One has prepared. Again, very generous outdoor amenity spaces, thoughtful placement of access points and landscaping to make this a pleasant place to live. And with that, I think Erica, I'll allow you to chime in, but we have a series of renderings that we can go over to that really explain how the project has come together all these months. So this is a view down sort of close to the point site looking up from where the road would be extended past the existing termination of the road. So this is one of our key points that we've been looking at the different massing strategies and looking at how to articulate and break down the mass of the building. And so we've been using this to compare some of our different strategies in past meetings. And then this one is, as you go up onto the entry plaza. This is a sort of entry lobby connectivity to the elevator core and also where guests drop off would be located for the building. And so we've been working with council to enhance the entry experience specifically for guests and really make sure that the way finding for the guest experience is really understandable and thoughtful and also works with all of our services that need to come to the building, including delivery trucks, trash and recycle and really, you know, fire access when needed and police and all those different services. Also thinking through, you know, moving trucks and different, you know, larger vehicles that need to access the site and how they turn around and transit possibilities in the future. So we've been meeting with a lot of different departments along the way and making sure that the adjustments to the site plan that we've been developing are all acceptable, which they have been throughout the process. This is from kind of the other corner of the entry plaza, which is where our fire truck turn around is located, and then you can see the upper level parking access as well. And then this is one of our more recent, we've had taken off some one bedroom off of that upper level unit to really have a little bit more articulation on the corners of the building. And then this is down from the upper town hall parking area. We've been working on trying to get some materials on the parking, lower parking structure that might blend a little bit better into the environment. And we've introduced a rusted metal material and really just trying to get, you know, some of the colors to really settle in with the natural palette of the draw site. This is back kind of around sort of on the above the point site on that sort of peninsula of mountain side where the trail wraps around. This is looking sort of down into the courtyard. And we've been working with Connect One to incorporate their landscape elements into our renderings. And again, Patrick was noting that this is meant to be a multi-generational hangout space. It has some really nice, with the L shape of the building, it really sort of defines the courtyard nicely in that area. And then, you know, again, has that more natural connection to the draw, where the slightly more manicured landscape bleeds out into the natural landscape of the hill. These are a couple of the more photo overlays that we've done. So this is from juice over at base village, just really trying to understand, you know, when you look out across, you know, from a little higher up, what you will see. And again, this is where we're really pulling from some of the colors of the draw site. As you can see, some of the cliff colors above and the vegetation are inspiring the colors as well as town hall where we're pulling from their stone and some of the the siding materials onto our project. And then this is up from the gondola, overlaying the rendering into the base village view from the gondola itself. And then that was another gondola, we had two gondola views. I think one was a little older. This is a newer photo, right Patrick? This is when you go. This was taken in spring. Yeah, so the other one was a couple years ago. And so it didn't have all of the base village development in the foreground. So Patrick took this one for us more recently. I took one for the team and one skiing. Yeah. You're welcome. Guys, please continue to speak up so that the gallery can hear you as well. It is recording you quite well. And they can hear you quite well online. But please continue to speak up. Thank you. And then this was a request to look from far away road. And as you can see, there's because the draw is a draw and has these arms that come out on both sides. The topography on the right-hand side of the draw really blocks a significant portion of the building from this side. So that was what we were trying to show from this side. And then this is our material palette that we've been developing, really trying to draw from a more alpine character and materials that we found on the site and at town hall. And then these were a couple additional renderings looking more closely at the landscape elements. So the back courtyard, a couple of views, there's a community room that's adjacent to the courtyard, so residents can potentially check that out and have small parties or have gatherings for the community. and it spills out onto the recreational area and the small play area for kids and adults. I think there's adult play too. And then this is the roof top deck that we're really excited about. You know, not every unit within the building has a view of snowmass, but every resident will be able to go up to the roof and spend time looking at the beautiful view. So as Betsy pointed out, thank you, Erica. As Betsy pointed out, we're here. We'd like to request approval to proceed to preliminary plan. The work sessions have been extremely helpful. We really do think all of your time and your thoughtful comments. They were helpful and I think it has done many things to make this project a much stronger project. So thank you very much. The latest feedback has been incorporated in those renderings that you just saw that was we were discussing the reduction of sunshades. It was now just on that southern corner where it was most necessary. We've updated those floor plans, the elevations and the sections to all kind of be in line with what our discussions have led to. And then as I just said, these new renderings have shown those refinements. So we have also reached out at your request to obtain some additional public feedback. So there was an online survey that was posted online. I'm going to let Greg go over those findings. But we're also looking forward to having a robust public comment here tonight. So without further ado, Greg. Thank you. Madam Mayor, members of Council, thanks for having us here tonight. This is the most exciting part of the presentation, which is the feedback that we got from the community. So Stafford, you all loud and clear. We put it out there that we wanted feedback and we got some feedback. A couple notes on the methodology for this. Just things that we know being industry professionals that it is 421 in the afternoon on a Monday and we know that some people are at work right now and so we wanted to make sure that we captured that audience as well as the folks who were able to be here or folks who may not have access to a computer. We wanted to make sure that everyone who wanted to make a comment could make a comment. So we split it up between in person in a digital or a write-in type of request for comments. So with this survey you saw my point in time analysis in the staff report from Wednesday. There were 158 responses for that at that point in time. I closed the survey this morning and at that moment it was about 10 o'clock. There were 200 responses, so that was great because we had quite a big push over the weekend to get the last few comments. It didn't really change the trend at all. If you looked at that trend analysis that was in the staff report, the general consensus was people like it, we're headed in the right direction. They gave you the subtle go ahead to submit this for review. We also had seven written comments that captured some unique comments that weren't necessarily captured in, or sentiments I should say that weren't necessarily captured in the online survey. And then we decided to leave the rest for the folks who were able to be here in person and provide their comments here. I'm doing a rough count, it's probably about 18 folks in the audience. So 200 on a survey, seven written, and you get 18 people here, that's pretty good turnout. You'll remember me presenting similar surveys to you in the past on different projects, and we struggle to get 13 people to respond. So I'll take well over 200. So this is just the beginning, or maybe it's the end of the beginning, or the beginning of the end, whatever Winston Churchill said, but we have a preliminary approval process that is yet too unfold. So what we will do if you give us the go ahead is we have the land use application that's largely put together. We have a lot of the studies ready to go. There's going to be some polishing that we need to do. But we'll submit that to staff, staff will do a completeness review as per normal procedures and we'll update that. Once the application is deemed complete, we'll have a joint meeting as we did before at the sketch level plan with planning commission and you. And at that time, you have an opportunity to give direction to the commission. So you can give them specific elements that you want them to look at. You can direct them to various aspects of the land use code that they should be considering during their review and so on and so forth. So that is, you know, and identify really what the core issues you have identified through these work sessions that we've had with you. So that's step two. Then we go to step three and that's a planning commission hearing. That's a public hearing where public comment will be taken again. So we look forward to that and that only allows us to then move back, come back to you at another public hearing or hearings to receive additional public comment. So I think the moral of the story is that there's gonna be lots more opportunities for public comment, there's gonna be a lot more opportunities for you to provide your opinions and your beliefs and views on how this should move forward. Well let me just clarify something really for the benefit of the people in the room. Town Council where it's two hats at this moment. We're both the owner of the project, and once we agreed to submit it to the approval process, we no longer act as owner, but we act as a quasi-judicial review authority. And so while there is time for comments now and later, they're at a different kind of a comment. Right now we could make changes as owners. Based on what we hear, what we think. Once we agree to go into the approval process, then we are acting in a quasi-judicial fashion and we're reviewing the project for approvals. So it's awkward, but I just want to explain that to the room. Okay. Go ahead, Jack. Thank you. And I'll just add that. That's correct. You got it. So in summation, we've come to the end is this is a project that's going to have the highest quality construction techniques employed. The goal is to provide the highest quality housing for workforce, for the town of Stomas Village workers. That has always been our goal and our guiding star I guess you could say. We are addressing the needs within the limits of the site and the budget. The building mass and height has been designed to rise with the site, has been designed to work with the site. As Tom just pointed out, we have had many work sessions where great feedback was provided. And as I said, I think those work sessions really yielded a much stronger project. We have that secured underground parking in addition to outdoor parking. We have a very large flexible courtyard for outdoor amenity space for gatherings that will really be a jewel for the town. We've had functional entry plaza as as Erica was pointing out can meet all of the emergency services, deliveries, all of the issues that you have identified through this work session process. We believe we have answered those questions. The traffic can be accommodated on the town hall road. We've worked pretty strongly on that to ensure that the grades work, that this is a safe and functional access for the housing units. It's accessible. I think the economies of scale, which was once a topic of try to build as much bang for your buck as you can, I think we're hitting that with the 63 units that we're targeting here. So with that. I just have one before we go to comment, obviously. I just wanna add on the financing piece of it because we haven't really spent a lot of time on that in the last few meetings. The cost is considerably less than the 79 unit option as would be expected. The financing source, there's three financing sources that will pay for the construction. One is a mortgage based on the revenue from rents. We maximize that. The second is we've set aside $3 million per year to repay a loan or a bond, if you will. That is, and that $3 million a year comes from revenues that have been earmarked, that are sales tax, always because of marketing tax. It can only be- I'm sorry, lodging tax. Lodging and sales tax from the village. It can only be used for either marketing or for housing. Those are the only uses for that money. That left, with this current plan, and again, at this stage, it's hard to be exact because there's still work to be done. We have about an $8 million gap that we're calling partner gap and we've reached out to several partners, one of whom is tentatively committed to paying that. So I think that we should not have a whole lot of trouble with filling that $8 million gap. But if we do, we raise the rents a little bit. You know, that's, and that can be easily... On that, my big concern, who is the unknown, the impact of the tariffs? Because there's so much of this building will be imported. It will have an impact. And I can, Josh, Josh can speak to that a little bit. The Hazelding guy, if you like, because I'm concerned about it too. We're all concerned about it. And Josh can speak to that a little bit, the Hazelding guy, if you like, because I thought that, because I'm concerned about it too, we're all concerned about it. And Josh, I don't know if you just want to say a sentence or two about the impact of tariffs. Yeah, the tariffs are something that we've been tracking for quite a while. And the impact is, it's hard to, you know, I'm so sorry, we're having're having problems with speakers Josh if you want to write that in the comment box we get a Megan what he said to me is he is less concerned about the one when we talked I don't know if I can summarize it less concerned about the impact of tariffs and the impact of waiting of taking You know of how much that cost just will always consistently go up over time. Tariffs come and go, tariffs are a hot, I don't want to say a hot mess, but a little bit of a, you know, this week we have them next week we don't, and everything in between. But he is concerned that, you know, each year that goes by it does cost more. There's always escalation due to time but I mean people I've talked to is nobody knows that's the real issue nobody knows the impact of the chair so just an unknown that's out there we should all just be aware of okay sorry Josh you didn't know this but we're having major sound problems so you sounded like you sounded like in Charlie Brown. Yeah, I'm keen on some. OK, are you guys happy? Yeah, we're good. OK, great. I haven't answered any questions. I'm going to go back. Sure. First of all, I just want to thank the design team, Betsy, all the town staff for getting all the information out there. It's evidenced by the number of people in this room. It's also wonderful to see so many of our community partners here to contribute to the conversation. How I just lay it out so everyone knows how it's going to work. We'll make comments as a council, ask some questions we have, and then we will open it up to public comment. If you would like to speak, you'll come up to the microphone because it needs to be recorded and just introduce yourself, say where you live and share your comment. We are going to limit the comments since there are a lot of people here to comment tonight to three minutes. We did hear a lot of comments online, which is amazing, but we are just so happy to have people live. We didn't know how many people would show up on this snowy Mayday. So I just wanted to lay that out so everyone understands how it'll work. And I know we'll start with our accounts comments. Do you want to go Tom with the few things that you had regarding the design? Well, I think you've done a good job. The impossible task of taking comments from a committee, we all know about a camel. And I think it had a pretty good job. And this lead us iteration. I think the building is, I mean, I've never felt that there should be a building on the site, but given that there is a building on the site, I think it's probably as good as it can be. And I think the reason we were given this land for housing was because a developer was required to provide housing, gave us a piece of land that was almost unbuildable. So anyway, I think you've done a good job with it. If we could go to the floor plans, please. Go to a typical floor. Keep going. All right. All right. I've mentioned this before. You have a number of bedrooms that are roughly normally 10 feet by 10 feet, which is really quite small for a bed for two people. If you have a twin bed in there, it works. But it's really difficult to get a dresser in these rooms. I'm not saying to change everything, but there's two areas, I think, where you can make some important improvement. I don't know, can you enlarge the drawing a little bit? Yeah, that helps. So one area is, I mean, we have these beautiful balconies, but if this wall, you can see how tight these rooms are. I mean, you can't even get a bed table on the window side. This is one bedroom unit. So you'd probably have, like, to have a bed for two people and they're really, really tight. If this wall could move to the exterior or some, it would put more room into the bedroom, which would be used every single day and every single night, and a little less room in the balcony which will be used marginally in the summer. So I would really recommend, as you develop it, you look at that, because I think these rooms are really small. And if you could go up the top left of the drawing, on the else, yeah. And I've mentioned this many times. It, while it's beautiful to have a window up, no, no, let's keep it on the plan, please. Thank you. Beautiful of this window looking out, but it's really not necessary. And a minute, this is employee housing. And these are two 10 by 10 bedrooms. If we ended the corridor after the entrances to these apartments and put that corridor space into these apartments, you could make the bedrooms each, like 10 by 12, which would really be helpful. And the bathrooms could sort of move in and these clouds at back here could get much bigger and more functional. I think that's much more important than a window in a corridor. Now on the ground level or at the grade level, I know you want to have an entrance here. So don't change on that level but the floor is above. I think it's really vain to not put that space into the apartments rather it really would be used rather than just have a window. There's a nice window here by the elevators. And if I was doing this for a developer, I would not be putting that window in. So that's it. Great. Thank you. That's it. That's good progress. That means we've done well here. Okay, Susan, you have any feedback you want to share? No, I just, I really appreciate all of the people who filled out the survey and impressed that we've got that many responses and really happy about it and happy that we have a room full of people who are also interested in this project. So I just want to thank everyone for participating because I know everybody has busy lives and we appreciate your feedback for sure. Go to. Yeah, I would echo that sentiment. I'm really grateful to be in a community that's so passionate about a project like this. I think it's just inspiring to see so many responses to the surveys and see so many people here tonight. I really look forward to the feedback. I'd like to kind of process some of what we hear tonight before I comment on some thoughts about the survey responses Just one quick question could you go to the landscape view with the sidewalks? But the where the sidewalks are drawn in it's on the diagram for the sidewalks are drawn in. The diagram for the sidewalks? The is showing the sidewalks. Okay. So now we've got a better flow for the sidewalks coming down so that they're not trying to walk around the curve. That was one concern I had at the last meeting regarding the landscape. on the parking mean and around the curve. That was one concern I had at the last meeting regarding the landscape. Walk around the parking. You mean in the... Around the big curve. Inside or outside of curve? Right here. Yeah, outside of the curve. So they are walking still around. So I guess I'm looking at it at the one that just has the purple sidewalks drawn in. Yeah, the purple... Patrick, if you go to I amologist a 1.01 Stage 31 in the in your packet This one. Yep. That was it. Yeah, you went too far. I'm passing. There it is. There it is. So is that Indicating that we're reconsidering the sidewalk and bringing it down around here as opposed to out on the outer curve? Yeah, we're no longer bringing it around the curve for a couple of reasons. One was that it was getting a little too steep on the inside and we need more area for snow storage in that area. So the idea is that somebody could take the elevator down to the lower parking garage and then exit that lower parking entry. And we have, uh, there's another diagram of that on the previous pages, but that shows clear pedestrian pathway. So we felt that it wasn't necessary to have that portion of the sidewalk on the inside corner of the, um, of that kind of switchback. Yep. So I mean, I'm a little trouble hearing you, but we have the sidewalk on the outside of the curve, but not on the inside. No, no, no, the other way around. We don't have it on the inside of the curve. We don't have it on either is my current. We don't have it on the upper curve. We have people coming who are walking are going to be able to come. It's almost easier to show you on a elevation but... The purple is accurate, yeah. The purple is accurate. Yeah. That's correct. That pedestrian and then you're you're going to the staircase. Right. There's a staircase right there. It takes you up to the courtyard. So there's no need to walk around the roadway. Correct. Cyclists. All of the bike parking is down in that lower parking structure structure and so they would exit from the lower parking and be able to go out on the road. So it's kind of minimizing bikes and pedestrians on the hairpin corner. So if somebody has a stroll or they don't choose to take the elevator to those level walk through the parking garage, they have to walk in the street around the curb or go down the stairs in the center. Our recommendation would be that they would take the, we would recommend that they would take the elevator and there would probably be signage that would discourage people from walking in the road. And I mean it's's an open discussion. There is room for a sidewalk, but it felt to our civil team and our landscape team that it wasn't going to be used very often. And it was giving us additional snow storage and flexibility with our slope on that road. So it's not off the table by any means, but in this current plan, we're not showing it there. Thank you. I just wanted to be sure we caught that. I brought it up last time and I'm glad that we're looking at the safety in that space and mobility. In general, I think I'm going to hold off on any other comments for now. Okay, that sounds good, sessily. One question for you Betsy about the... We had a lot of comments come up about sort of the three bedrooms versus studios and one bedrooms. And it struck me that we had had a discussion before about some families in the village that were just living in housing that was too small for them. And I was wondering do you have the data on that? Is that something that we know? The only data that could be known are the people who live in our housing. Yes, yes. Currently. And we haven't gone through the process of counting who, I mean, how you just define, we would have to first define what's underhoused, right? But we know of people in studios with a couple and a child. We know of a number of these situations where people live like that. Is that something that's possible for the town to know or is it not like it's not necessarily... I mean we can know it as each year we ask how many people are living in the apartment and so we can know it that way. Okay. Yeah, I just I guess as we look to people needing two and three bedrooms, I just want to make sure that people who are like under house are not living in conditions suitable, that we're really taking that into account. Sort of prioritize a transfer kind of deal. Yes, and especially while taking into like the the comments that came forward in our public comment was a lot a lot of people needing or kind of wanting, I think the one bedroom like seemed to be a theme through the public comment and I just wanted to be sure that like while listening to that voice, we were also taking into consideration that we may have some people in the village that are just not living in conditions that are okay. I feel like we are in terms of the mix. I think the mix is pretty reflective of what we see in the demand if that's a way to do it. But yes, I think that people who are under housed should have a priority to transfer one unit to become available. Okay. Then yeah, I mean, I think it's been a good process. I obviously came to the table partway through this. And while it may have not been my first choice of a place to build, it does suit the needs of, I like that we're putting people close to transit. And that's probably my top priority is to hope that this is creating a community where people can walk, take the bus, ride their bikes, have easy access to everything from restaurants to their jobs to, you know, the grocery store. So it doesn't check all the boxes for me, but in that regard it does. So I appreciate all the back and forth that we've done. And I do think that the project has gotten significantly better. Yeah. Yeah, and so excited. Like I just love, I love to see people show up and participate. So thank you guys for being here. It's awesome. Great. Thanks, Sessley. Yeah, I mean, for those that don't know, this has been a very long process, two plus years of working through these designs and different iterations. I think the survey had both ends of the spectrum and everything in between, but I do think that there was a lot of common themes, one of them being the unit mix, one of the ones that I think would be important to sort of talk about a little more so people can understand as the parking and concerns about maneuverability of the garage because as we know the base village garage is not the most friendly and understanding how we landed on the number of parking spots and you know I know there's some people that are like why isn't it auto free and other people are like it's too many cars it's not enough cars and maybe just touching on that a little bit just in case anyone does have any questions regarding parking. Did you want us to speak about that? Yeah, sure. That would be great. Yeah, so if there's any way you can... I'm sorry, I'm trying to... Sorry, I'm trying to... Sorry, I'm trying to... I'm going to move it closer. So the idea with... There's two parking levels and they are... The speakers don't work so you talk loud. I'm honestly trying. I'm trying. Patrick in my voice. Sorry. Patrick can explain it. Essentially there are two fully separate parking levels. So there's no ramping between the parking levels. And so that's one of the features I think of a lot of parking structures that makes a difficult to maneuver is you're on a sloping surface. And you're you know there's ramps that are spiraling up you know nobody loves driving up a tight spiral. So there are there's none of that in this design. You drive in separately on each level, and it's essentially flat. And you would have assigned parking, so you would be able to really become familiar with how you get to and from your assigned parking. And the guest parking is all on the surface open plaza. So the idea is that when somebody's coming and they're not familiar with the garage, they're not needing to go into the garage and they have adequate guest parking on the plaza. So, was that loud enough? That was good. Okay. Thanks. As well as EV parking out there? Yes. As well as EV parking, charging, yes. And then in terms of the number of parking, because people have because that people have really strong feelings on both sides of that. What we tried to do as slip-blit the baby as best as possible, we have zoning requirements in our zoning code that dictate the number of parking spaces that are needed. We tried as much as we could to kind of hit that. and although we are a little bit below, what the strict requirement would be, we're a little bit less and we thought that was warranted giving where it's located and the walkability, the accessibility to transportation. And then we may also, we're looking at also having car share so that people can borrow. I think people are just as passionate about, you need to, somebody was like two cars per bedroom. Other people were like, why do we have parking at all? And we've had that conversation certainly here as well. So this is sort of a split-to-baby thing. And I think the garage, as Erica explained, has gotten much, much more simple and thank you to, well mostly to Tom, but to all of you for directing that because I think it's, it won't have the same issues that other multi-level parking garages have. I'll add one thing too on that piece of the car, the car share in the council goals that was recently adopted by you all, the direction was given to for staff to be more innovative and creative in projects. So this is a good example of it's a site that we're trying to make work and the car share is one of those creative solutions to a parking issue. Okay. Okay, any other questions before we go to comments? Okay, we are gonna open it up to public comment. Like I said, if you could come right next to where Patrick is over here and speak into the microphone, please state your name and speak loudly so that everyone in the room can hear you because the microphones will pick up the online, but not the in-room. Don't be afraid. We're happy to have you. We just ask that you limit your comments to three minutes. Anyone want to come up? Oh, Leslie. Come on up, Leslie. And then it's two. So Leslie, can you sit in the other chair so you can come in? Yeah. Thank you, dear. I've been seeing you in a while. No, I've been sick. Well, it's nice to see you. Anyway, it's very nice to be here. Thank you. I just want to say some things that are a bit not necessarily a cut and dry, just some feelings. I was here in 1960 and my folks bought a crestwood in 66. So we were here during a lot and we didn't a crestwood in 66 and so we were here during a lot and we didn't like base village at all. And my dad, if any of you knew him, he put money, he gave money to Jack Hatfield to oppose the, but he didn't want anybody to know that he had opposed it because he was kind of, you know, kind of on the tightrope, I should say, maybe. So anyway, the first thing we noticed was the view. I mean, you go up and you don't have a view. And we had a wonderful view, but you know everything changes. The other thing that we didn't like when my dad came to town when it was early and it was we were only supposed to put I guess 100 words in a podcast I don't know something so I'm not making any sense anyway. I took my dad's position on Bayes Village and Jack Hatfield was a very, very good friend. But now when you drive up Brush Creek Road, you go up and here's the roundabout. It is Vail on the left. It's just V on the left. On the right, it's not. So what I want to say to you is I hope we can, as we're going up to the village, on the right, I just want this building to fit in with the other buildings. And I don't know if that's possible, I'm not an architect, so I don't know. But I just very much would like a little bit of the base village gone away, and it's not going to go away, I know. But when my dad got here, he was in advertising, in an advertising agency in Chicago. But what happened was he found out pretty fast that the town didn't have any, you know, anyway, you know, I'm trying to, the time didn't have any. It wasn't put together very well and then, but it came after a while.. I think that the one thing my dad did is he had to make signs in wood, because that's the only sign that was allowed at early snowmants was wood. He made a lot of signs. Creekside, those signs are still his, and I could just tell. So anyway, I just don't, maybe the last thing I can say is I don't want a veil on that side too. I just don't. And I think if we could get some of the, some of the... I don't know if we could get some of the, I don't know, if we could get some whatever. I think we get what you're saying, Levin. You know what I'm saying? 100%. I would love to see this building put into the mountain to some extent if it's possible and I'm not in our but thank you. Thank you. We appreciate you, Leslie. Thank you. I hope you're feeling better. Okay. Who else would like to come up and make public comment? There's a lot of you I know a lot of you that I don't know so come on up. We'd love to get to know you. Tony, come on up. And then Dennis, you'll come up after her. I'm high for the record. My name is Tony Cronberg. And what I wanted to speak about was not so much about the project itself, but about the access road from the project, Pastown Hall to the intersection to Stomach Town Center. And I'm sorry, I missed part of the presentation, So I don't know if it was disgust or not. But right now parking is really tight here at Town Hall, Town Center. You can't find a spot out there right now. And the little bit of diagram that I saw, it looked like that parking was eliminated. So I didn't know, as I said, just from what I saw. So you're going to have more parking for Town Hall. No, it's just the same amount of parking. Is there any way that you could increase the parking with this project? Betsy can address. The surface parking, we're envisioning the surface parking at the draw site being available to the Town Hall with that walkway connecting in between. if you can look at his site plan there. Okay. So there's said there are the two existing town hall parking spaces not to mention the one over kind of on the cell. Right. Yeah. Those all stay. Okay. And that stays and then the other two. And then what we're looking at is if you come up this little walkway right here. you can get to the surface parking that is for visitors and deliveries. And we believe that during meeting times that could be overflow from the town hall. So that town hall could make use of that. That's visitor parking for the draw site project. So there'll be hopefully spaces available for meeting time. Okay, and then it's a pretty steep walk getting up to the draw site. Yeah, but there's gonna be stairs right where Betsy was showing us. Right, are there gonna be heated stairs uncovered for the winter time or have you entertain the idea about putting a Skittles in? Putting a what? A Skittles. No. That's not funny. That's very funny. So that was my segue. The Skittles works great. I mean, it really does. It's slow, whatever, but it still serves a very important function. And so one of my concerns has been for a while. It's the intersection down here at town center. When you try to make the left to come into the road here. That's all going to get rebuilt. Okay. Okay. So when you say redesigned has that been plotted out yet planned yet or talked about. We're looking at the snow my center revision or remodeling that it's all in those approved drawings. Okay, so as you know, when Base Village was built that existing right now, there is a gondola terminal. Base Village was supposed to hook over to town center. And my understanding is very aware that we have a separate project looking at that. You do? Okay, that's what I'm looking for. Connecting the notes. Okay, that's great. And then hopefully if you do do the new affordable housing development, associate right behind town center, that they'll connecting the nodes, could connect up to that, and then somehow we could go from behind town center to the recreation center with transportation with the gondola and aerial. And then God knows if we could ever connect it to Perch Creek Park and Ride, then that would be a miracle. Thank you, Tony. Thank you, Tony. Thank you, Joey. You want to come down? You want to come down? Come on down. Come on down. Come on down. Come on down. Come on down. I'm down in Samara, I live down at Fairway 3. I would throw out an interesting idea that I don't think is often thought of. Happy considered charging or selling the parking spots. I retail price on an open market, because one of the things I noticed when parking's provided for free, you create an interesting situation that the people who don't own cars effectively are paying for something they don't use. There's a cost to not owning a car, and so if you charge for the parking, the people who really want to pay for it and use it, use it, and those who want to make other arrangements like. I mean, I'll agree to you address that, but we have discussed that. You know, nothing's been finalized, but the idea of, you know, not everybody gets a free spot, but you pay for your spot. So, I think that's what you want to address that? Yeah, I mean, I, we've typically in the past built the cost of parking into people's rent. And one, and one option that we're looking at for this property would be to have the cost of parking be in addition to the base rent so that it those who use it pay for it. I think given, I mean I don't know what the breakdown here is but I do work in underground construction and those for that parking lot is going to be expensive and those parking spaces and I know in Denver for instance if you're looking to rent a lot of buildings you pay for parking and it's graduated according to how close to the building you are and whether or not it's indoor or outdoor. But I think it would be a good way. You know, we have a thing we want to encourage people not to use cars. But, perversversely we're subsidizing people to use a car. So this would be a way of maybe writing that dynamic a little bit and also helping I suspect the parking lot, the price per lot spot could be fairly high and help pay for the project. But thank you. We are, I mean, we're not at a point of resolving those policies yet, but we have been discussing that something that will be in the mix. So thank you, Dennis. Thank you. I just to make one comment about that, I think it's, I think it's a really great idea, and I love the idea of incentivizing people not to have a car. And then there may be a few groups where we need to look at mobility, being someone who's got two car seats in my car right now. It's really hard to get around with the kids on public transportation. So it's not impossible, but I would say there's, there's some mobility groups that we just want to, maybe make an exception for. Yeah. Great. Thank you, Dennis. Um, anyone else? Public comment? Come on up. Hi, Jim. Nice to see you. Hi, everyone. Jim Kio. Um, resident, uh, since 04. Raise my kids here and now they're, they're back. Um, comments regarding the massing but wanted to touch on something about the site plan and just encourage a focus on the connection to the bus system and the center from the building and we all have probably heard of desire lines and in those are the lines that people typically take is the shortest route to get to places. And if there's any way to, you know, I believe that walkability of this is vital to the livability of it. So you're so close to the center. Are those stairs covered? Somebody mentioned that. And we often do that in mountain towns in something that's going to be used consistently and encouraged to be used. So I'll leave it at that. I think that's a vital part of this location, is connection and that connection ties to livability. And then could you go to a view, maybe a perspective view looking at the building, coming up the drawer, yeah, maybe there. You know, I I'm I was thinking about the the the first comment and you know appreciate the the history and the the insight and what I started to think about is this does feel a little bit like base village and I read a lot of the comments and some were saying too tall but let's just say it is what it is to get the program in there that's important but is this is sitting alone and its context is different from base village. So as you come up the road, it just is more prominent. And with that said, you do look at this building and I know how many iterations it's gone through, but could the massing be massaged in any way? You look at the building and you can see the vertical lines. You see less horizontals that would break up that verticality. And I did notice that the program is distributed, one, two, and three bedrooms horizontally, and then extruded up. And then there's a few places where they've been taken off. My question is, is there a way to look at the programming of this building in a vertical sense whereby maybe larger units with families are lower? Because you got kids and stairways and so forth. And would that give you the ability, at least on this facade, maybe not in the back, because you're gonna be experiencing it from the rim trail, and there you're looking at the beautiful mountain we have, right? But would there be a case to take the units that encompass the entire breadth of the front facade here, and look at maybe rethinking of the, you know, distributing those vertically so you could get some small units that step back, maybe step in on one side or the other, maybe on the west, and diminish the mass with the program. And that, you know, I think that it could be more organic and natural in that sense. And the other thing I'd say is maybe the, you know, the one thing about Vase Village, the roofs are help contain some of the mass. And I know you're employing some of them here. And I'll say one last thing. I think when I was driving over here, I looked at the one snowmass. And notice that the balconies aren't enclosed. And you do read the mass through the balconies because the balcony railings are pretty light and here you do have three or four, the balconies are cut out of the mass and they're not this projection. Do you that. So if it was just, if the balconies were just a plane with an open rail, you'd see the plane of the wall back and it would diminish the mass, I believe, a little bit. Again, focusing on that first comment about how could we, I don't know if the word was nestle. Maybe that's my word, but fit more comfortably into the draw, into the geometry of the draw. And I think that's it. And I know this is a lot of hard work and I appreciate the community and the team working on this. Thank you very much. Thank you for being here. Thanks. Anyone else? Come on up, Peter. Peter Wanderer's president and CEO of Anderson Ranch appreciate you taking my comments. Be a little more general than some of the ones you've heard who really wanted to communicate that appreciate all the work that's been done. It's a great plan. We really need housing in this town. And Anderson Ranch really needs housing and we encourage you to move this forward to the next process. Really to thrive, the ranch needs employees that live here. Right now I have two employees that occupy Snowmass Village employee housing. The other 38 of us commute to Snowmass to really have people be a part of this community as critical to that culture, the support of the ranch. And I really hope that you will move forward with that. When we look at the project, the ranch needs studios for young employees, one bedroom units and two bedroom units. Those are all in this plan. The ranch needs housing within walking distance. We want employees to be able to walk to restaurants, walk to the ski lifts, walk to the grocery store, and frankly, walk to the ranch. And this project does all of those things. So appreciate all the work, really want to give you my support and encourage you to move forward with this project. It's a necessary. Thank you. Appreciate it. Anyone else? Come on up, Chris. Good afternoon. Chris Kylie, Aspen Snowmass, SPP Planning and Development. In the interest of brevity I would just like to echo Peter's comments. I thought that were fantastic and really hit the nail on the head. We have been supportive of this project. Throughout the process I appreciate all of the hard work and encourage the council to move it forward into the next phase. I think that it can help to accomplish something that we're all working on and trying to chip away at across a wide range of opportunities. Thank you. Great. Thank you so much. Anyone else out there? Come on up, Mr. Light. I'm Andrew Light, live locally and I just want to say the plan has come a long, long way. And I would just say keep checking on a cost because cost are moving really, really quickly. That's, that know who the $8 million partner is, but I just want to just support the project. You guys have done a great job getting it where it is, but just pay attention to that. Good work, you guys. So that's all I want to say. Thanks, Andrew. Thank you. Lindsay. What's a little partner in tow? Come on up. I'm Lindsay Hagley with Challenge Aspen, CEO of Challenge Aspen, my son Cooper. We live here in Snowmass. We count ourselves lucky. We live in employee housing here. And I want to echo Peter's comments. Actually, have more employees that live in Stomach than you, which is shocking. And there are days in the winter time when I'm the only person available to open the office because my staff are trapped on 82 behind an accident or it's just slow moving traffic. So to run a business here can be very challenging, including nonprofits, because your employees just are struggling to get to work. And so having vibrancy in our community of people that actually live here is wonderful. And I'm in support of the density of the project personally and as Challenge Aspen, because we do waiting five years for someone to get off the wait list. We've already lost the person and they've moved on. And so having this housing would be essential. What do you think? I think it's good. Thank you. Thank you. You're very very good. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Mr. Romero. Come on up. should say. Yeah exactly. Price is ready. Dwayne Romero with 642 Sinclair roads and the mass mall. I also want to reinforce the comments that have been made recently there. The support for the project. I know that you guys have gone a long distance on the trail on this thing. Quite a bit of good work, right? Really good work between staff and the community and the council itself, so we really appreciate that. We have over 120 folks in our company, a dozen or so, our full-time employees here. Luckily we have five of them that actually live here. We'd love to see more as well. So we definitely encourage you to continue to move this along in the process. Again, appreciate your work. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? Water and sand. No. Are you coming for water and sand or yourself? I'm just coming for Darryl you. You may know I'm a newbie here relatively. Worked here for two years, lived here one for one year. And my first of all, my feedback, I just really appreciate the openness that this council has shown to the public input. I feel like that's a great sign for our town. And as a newbie that's been really, really nice to see. sign for our town and as a newbie that's been really really nice to see. Also having Council has shown to the public input. I feel like that's a great sign for our town. And as a newbie, that's been really, really nice to see. Also having commuted for a year and living here a year, the massive difference it feels as being a part of this community. So I am really sensitive to people who feel like their community is changing. But I also feel like employee housing is one of the reasons why I moved here and if it didn't exist for Water and Sand for me, I'm not sure if I would have taken the job, so it's been critical. So I kind of want to say, between the tensions, a compromise is okay and I really appreciate the way it's been scaled back and you know, and then I I have one off the cuff. I'll probably make a fool of myself, common, from an aesthetic perspective. I... And then I have one off the cuff. I'll probably make a fool of myself common. From an aesthetic perspective, I've picture myself living in the units, and I've noticed that several of them at least have an angled outside wall. And I wonder about the psychology of living in a space that has an angle. And I don't know if that's been considered. We know and never lives in a triangular room and there's probably a reason for that. So I kind of like my square rooms and I'm wondering, I understand it from an aesthetic perspective. You like to have variation on the outside so it's not just a monolithic exterior wall with a balcony but I think that can be done in a horizontal fashion and I I would just suggest that be explored. Well, actually, Darryl, the water flows better with the angled wall. Oh, no. I'll take it all back. Thank you. We appreciate that. Thanks, Darryl. Any other comments? Going once, going twice, and no seriously, though anybody else? All right, Leslie. Okay, you got to come up to the microphone though, because it has to get you on the online version. The question I have is can the outside of the new building be either painted or coated so that it corresponds or with town hall in the center? Yeah, well the attempt was to do that. They're using materials and colors from Town Hall and the surrounding hillside. Good, yeah. Good. Like the elevator shafts, what do you call that material? The weathering steel. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Fortunately for us, we have a guy on this council that does this often, so he thinks of everything. He knows the terms Any other comments Thank you all this has been super helpful to have all these comments Any comments from you guys based on what we've heard tonight and Thoughts I mean the question before us is to move it to the next phase, which would be sentimental, which could be very exciting because it's been a long time coming. But did you have comments you want to share? Since I reserved my initial thoughts on the survey and now with an additional bit of feedback from the community. You know, I felt really good reading all the comments whether they were in favor or against. I feel like we as a council have really tried to encompass all those feelings and done the best we can working with this project to get it to that compromised space. Do I feel like it's, you know, at that sweet spot just yet? No, I think there are some other things that we could do still to both perhaps accumulate more units and address the height and scale and massing. Maybe that takes place after we move into preliminary, but one of the things that when I went back through all of my notes for the past two years on this project, I pulled out four words that just kept coming up, sort of through my notes and questions that I was asking. Are they affordable, not just for the people that live there, but affordable to build? I think we've worked a lot to address that. Are they efficient? Is this going to be an efficient use of sacrificing this space? Because this is, at least we forget, the last parcel of undeveloped land that the town currently owns. So it's quite an expense on our landscape as well as our potential for future uses. And clearly there's a cost financially and the construction that's going to be a big impact on us. So are we getting enough for compromise with 63 units? Are we, is it efficient enough? And I think that we've worked on the density. And I do feel comfortable with the density and where we're at right now. Effective. I think we still have a long way to go when it comes to how we're going to program, who's going to live there, and how, and address parking, and talk about auto-incentivizing. But effective is a space where I think we can still be working on the visionary elements of how to get these community members the struggle to be here that are big vibrant part of our community Anderson ranchpen and others, housed, figuring out the family makeup and the blend of the need for those one, studio one, twos and twos. I think that we saw more of an echo from. So I'm feeling really good looking through my notes, because as most of you know, I've probably been the most critical of this project from the start and I appreciate everyone bearing with me as I've worked through all of these various concerns that I feel like I heard, you know, a fair amount of in the feedback from the surveys. So thank you for letting me work through that. Now the fourth is that compatibility. I saw that thematically coming through. How compatible is this with the site? That's the part that I'm hung up on. And I think when I look at the survey results, there's a mixed bag. You know, we see quite a lot in there. Looking at the question number seven, is it about the building's height? Now we can see from the grid that it looks like you know people are feeling comfortable with the height but when we comb through the public comments 47 of the comments out of the 95 say it's just too tall. Now I don't know if that's because they feel that the height itself is too tall or if it's the visual impact that the verticality of it still has on us, that the height is, it's it's reading almost like a five or six story building just because of where it's placed on the height and the mountain on a pedestal. It is a five story, but yeah Yeah, well, and it's reading plus four. Yeah, well, when you consider the park, so we've got four stories of housing and then we've got the lower level and then a bit of an upper level. So it's the ground level. So it's ground plus four plus stuff going on. So it's certainly reading like a pretty tall building, quite comparable to what we see across the way at base. And that has been a struggle for a lot of people to come around to and accept. And I don't want us to look back and have regrets that we couldn't have pushed this just a little further to alleviate that height tension. So I guess for me, that's the one final thing that I think that if we can still, you know, if we're going to rethink anything, this is still the time to rethink it. And if height could be addressed, I would really push us on that because I feel like we've come so far with where we're at right now and I'm grateful for all all the input, but I still think we can do better. I really believe that snowmasses, we should have something that we're proud of, as well as something that works to house people. We're not gonna build it that much quicker by moving through this process in a couple more weeks. I believe that taking the extra care and time now to address anything in addition to what we've already put forth, looking through the public comments, if there's any way we can, I'm no designer, so I don't have, I'm out of suggestions. Other than my one hang up is when I look at the backside if you could put the landscaping picture up Yeah, this is a perspective that I feel like is more welcoming and so It's hard for me to feel like the the public's looking up to me what it feels like more of the backside While this feels more like Entrance the front side and I'm grateful for that.'s going to be very nice for the people that are living there. I wonder if there's any way to bring some more units into the mix and pull them into the front and give it more of that Z to help further break up some of that height concern. Because if there's one thing that I think we could address on that compatibility that would help with the tension of the community feeling like this is a little too-based village-esque, it is to work on that visual verticality. I think, you know, to Jim Keeho's suggestion of considering programming as a way to help or break that up, I would be in favor of looking at one more iteration at this time and see if we couldn't potentially get a couple more units and work on some of that verticality in the meantime. That would be my instinct moving forward tonight would be to recommend that we take all of what we've heard, take that community feedback, look at how any of that could still be implemented and as well as take time on council still to digest and process what we've heard and then allow us to come back at the next meeting and readdress whether we're ready to move into preliminary or not. I'd still be grateful for the opportunity as a landowner, that's what it is, to be able to have those public conversations at this time. So once we move into preliminary, we will no longer be able to speak openly with the public or one another. Well, we can speak in a meeting. You just keep speaking private. In private. Sorry. Have those post office conversations I like to call them, the council chambers over in post office. Okay. Well, I guess, I mean, even if you bump the decision for two weeks, you can't have design changes in two weeks. No, we're talking about months. The rate it takes to do things here. I mean, maybe it would be helpful just, you know, for some people, this is, we haven't done very many land use reviews lately, but explaining, you know, if we wanted to incorporate any changes, some of the wonderful suggestions that Jim throughout tonight, things that Britta said, what does that look like in terms of the review process? I think it'd be very difficult to do that in the review process. Those are fundamental kind of changes. In the review process, it's more like, you know, change the color of that material or maybe there's something on the roof line, but or just deny it. But in review, you still are talking about mass and scale. But it's really generally approval or not approval. It's really not substantial design changes. I took very good comments or notes on the comments. These comments can be incorporated. They can also certainly be studied while we are preparing this land use application. And we can come back and give you a feedback on what that might look like. Before we go into preliminary or say? No, I would say as part of the preliminary plan approval, like we have covered there are many opportunities for your comments. Those are gonna be made at public hearings, of course. But we've also just heard your additional comments that can be taken into account and studied and looked at. So we heard you and we can look at that, but at some point you have to put a pencil down and you can't make wholesale changes. Preliminary plan approval still allows for modifications and updates and tweaks to be made. So Dave, Dave. If you, Dave Sheneman, Director of Community Development, the preliminary plan review process is intended to take a look at the hard look at architecture to take a hard look at the parking to take a hard look at all of the landscape and architecture and site design standards that are on the property significant changes could be made during the preliminary plan review process. That's good to hear. It's not just minor. I know- I'm not saying that that's likely, but it could happen. It's not. You're going to have the Planning Commission look at it with public input at a public meeting. They're going to take public input. I know in past land use projects, the Planning Commission's made significant suggestions to the Council on changes to site plans. So that could happen with this project. I don't know that. I mean certainly you spent an awful lot of time on it getting it to this point and I think that will be taken into account when it goes forward. I think it's important I think for us to understand if you're looking at any of the suggestions that were made tonight by anyone or any of the comments online or what Jim proposed that, you know, there is that opportunity to incorporate those changes. And I think that's really important for everyone to understand. I mean, we just, we have been in this process for a very, very long time. I I personally feel like we need to move it forward. And the question before us tonight is if we want to take the leap to the next phase, knowing that there's still a ton of room to better this project as we've been doing the last two years. So I mean, unless anyone has any comments they want to add I'm sure you want to start. Before there's a motion I would just add that if the council has specific things that it would like for the development team to include is preparation of the final preliminary plan that they be included in the motion because if there's it's difficult to just kind of determine which comments might be the ones that council wants to take action on to implement at this stage. And you mean from public comment or from our own comments? Whatever you want the development team to take a look at before this application gets as older last chance. Last chance is on our answer. So two things have come up. One, there's been conversation about doing weather balloons, just so we could really see, and I don't know how long they could go up for it might only be a few days, but it would be nice to have those out for the public at some point. But correct. Yeah, weather balloons just show the height. So instead of doing story polls because it's really tall, we would do something like a weather balloon. And I think there was a comment made that we should do the weather balloons based on our best guess of what the true height was going to be. So my question not knowing this process particularly well is just when is the best time to do that? And I think that that could be helpful for everyone in seeing really what the mass and scale is. And I would just, sorry, a different thing. I would echo British sentiment that I think we've actually gotten to a really great place with density. I do think we could look, we could work on some of the comments that Jim Keeho made and just getting it to blend a little bit better into the landscape. And I think I hear the tension between how much this community and how much we need this housing and how quickly we need this housing. And then there's part of me that still feels like we could do a little bit better as far as blending it in, not making it look as much like a mirror of base village. So I'm so sorry that I don't understand these processes that well or what you're asking for Jeff, but those are my comments. Sure, no, no, I'll just... Jeff, just to... I mean, if you've seen what's come through on land use projects, there's typically a resolution that has a number of conditions. And so if you're bringing something to the planning commission, something that would be helpful would be, and when I'm hearing, and I'm not putting, I'm not trying to put a word in your all of your mouth. But if, look at the height, look at how it blends into the hillside. Those are the types of comments that would be helpful to the staff and planning commission in the review. When it comes back to you, planning commission may focus on those, they may have other ones as well. But if there's something you want them to focus on, such as heights or blending into the hillside or parking or, you know, what are the things you want them to focus on? Steps stepping it up or. And in terms of when the balloons would be a good time typically prior to a public hearing When it's been published if it's published 15 days prior somehow the balloons go up so that the planning commission and any Interested party can go out and see them. I think when we did coffee place. We did it. We had a joint meeting Remember we had a joint meeting and we all took a field trip down there to look at the story polls. It was that, well, that wasn't a PUD process, so it's a little bit different that was allowed as of right. And so, but we did put story polls up in both the council and the planning commission went down and walked the site. Yeah Generally, yeah as Dave said it's right before of a public hearing and so you say we're gonna convene at two o'clock to go look at the This story polls I would caution against weather balloons. They blow around They can't really be up for that long period of time. We could do another means of a drone or something like that to give you but I that's a standard thing that goes in front of a public hearing is to you know convene beforehand there's no comments there's no questions it's just for for the public to see that all together and then everybody takes that information immediately goes back into the review process so that's probably the most appropriate. Given the complexities of the height. Yeah, I'd certainly like to see something that can actually allow us to stand up on the site, understand, where the entrance is going to actually feel physically and see that height. I think that will really help inform not just our own sentiments, but also the planning commission when they're looking at conditions too. So just to clarify Jeff, if we make the motion, are we making we're making the motion as to what we would like to see going into seminal or right? Is that what we're doing? Yeah I think a motion could be to authorize the preliminary plan application and Request that in doing so that this that the development team Explore a few things and I heard from Tom if the rest of council supports he had to explore the Location of the wall on the front side of the building if that could be bumped out To explore that the hallway on the back of the L be and at the At the end of the entrance to the last units so that the hallway could be Incorporated into the two units to have I think from Britta to have the the development development team explore whether the building could be better integrated into the hillside, and then also from Cessli that as part of the review process that we include a site visit to review whether it be whether balloons or something to demonstrate the height of the building. I think we're kind of the four main things I heard. Is what it is? I would add to that two things that Jim brought up. One was to look at making the balconies, I'm going to say more transparent so they don't read as part of the massing but they read as more of an open element and see if that helps reduce the massing and also maybe by modifying where apartments are located to get some more of a stepping effect to the front facade. I mean those might be quite difficult to do but I mean those were the comments. And I would say if we're putting that in there I just want to make sure that we're pretty clear that we're not reducing the number of units because that's important. But we'll be willing to increase it. Absolutely. Yep. I'd be careful about increasing too much because then you start to drive more parking and that becomes a bigger project. And there's really no way to get a little more parking without a major monkey kick. But if, you know, I would say the same or more. Yeah. I mean if one or two studios popped out into the front helped with that step back or integrating it into the hillside, I'd be in favor of that. I think it's a lot, I understand, but this is still the time. We're still pinned to paper. This is not concrete pouring. We can still make those big pivots at this moment. And I'd be really grateful for us to look at that verticality and the height, because if I pulled anything out again, I think we would find a more harmonious balance between those that really don't want this and those that want to see as much as possible on the site. If we can address this verticality issue. So I also think this was Jim's comment, but also other things we've talked about just the walkability and making sure that the pathways are gonna be user user friendly to encourage the walking. And safe. I like where we're you know the direction we're taking and I thought that was an interesting comment on the desire lines too so identifying any more of those would be valuable. Do we need to say anything now about parking spaces and looking at how if there if people are paying for those separately what kind of plan that is if there's an incentive to I think we can do that at any phase as owners I it's not really part of the planning process it'll help with the operating budget a little bit yeah I'm looking forward to that discussion. I think some auto-distant analyzing is very much needed in this valley. So other sit-doc. Any additional items to the list of, I have eight things. Okay, great. We're on the same page. The Jeff so eloquently said anything that we're missing. Otherwise I would entertain that someone make that motion. I will make the motion as long as I don't have to repeat all the items. Maybe Jeff will. A motion to authorize, proceeding with a preliminary plan application with direction to the development team to explore the building blending into the landscape, the location of the wall in the front of the building, incorporating hallway space into the bedroom units, exploring making balconies more to make sure that the state is able to be able to make sure that the state is able to make sure that the state is able to make sure that the state is able to make sure that the state is able to make sure that the state is able to make sure that the state is able to make sure that the state is able to make sure that the state is able to make sure that the state is able to make sure that to explore the walkability and that the plan not reduce the number of units, but it's be open to a modest increase in the number of units. You just clarified when you said moving the front wall. I think what you meant to say was look at increasing the size of the bedrooms by moving the exterior wall into the balcony, some to increase the size of the right. Yes. That's what that's what I moved. That's why moved. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um by time. Okay. Can I? Susan second. Yep. Okay. All in favor. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. I need a post. I'm gonna say hi. Good job. All right. Consensus building. Consensus building. Thank you all sincerely for being here. We greatly appreciate it. We'll just take a couple minute break to let anyone who's going to clear the room, clear the room, and then we'll bring up the ski company. And Madam Mayor, I also have to excuse myself from the I'm going to go to the aviation scholarships. Oh, yeah, I believe. Thank you. I've let everyone know that a time I'm sorry. you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you Welcome back to the town council chambers. The next item on the agenda is going to be special review for the L-Camp Restaurant New Deck. Welcome back to the town council chambers. The next item on the agenda is going to be special review for the LCAMP restaurant new deck. I know we have several members of ski company here and I'll let you guys, or I don't know if you guys want to introduce it, Dave or Jim. Oh, Jim and, Jim introduce. Okay, great. Thank you, Mary. This is a special review request for and above. Great. That cut the out camp restaurant. And we decided to process it as a special review request because we felt it felt fell under the thresholds for not doing a PUDMM, but a special review instead. It's not an individual building, but it's all part of a restaurant addition being proposed. In part of the 24 PUD guy, the Alcamp Mid-Station was allowed 43,815 square feet of facilities, which included the Gondola, the restaurant, other ancillary facilities. And that went all the way back to the original, one of the original ordinances, ordnance 9 of 1994. Also a PUDM amendment for the outcamp, restaurant facility on Gondola was approved back in 2011 as a major PUDM amendment. So we thought the special review application was pertinent in this case, but we felt that due to the scale, the potential impacts and intensity of the proposed, above grade deck, we thought it would warrant both the Planning Commission and Town Council review of the proposed above grade deck we thought it would warrant both a planning commission on town council review of the special review. Just for the record the public hearing notice requirement was met. The publication notice was printed in the Aspen Times Stoomass edition on April 30th of this year and the applicant supplied the signed affidavits for the mailing and posting of the hearing notice. Staff's recommendation is for approval with conditions when it was presented to the planning commission. They evaluated that, but they were generally in agreement with the conditions, but then they added a few additional Conditions relative to the architectural changes and they had some questions regarding the employee housing mitigation Since then the applicant made some Architectural modifications to the building to reflect What the planning commission desired for changes to the building to make it fit in with the architectural design a little bit more. And those changes are reflected in the exhibit A to the town council resolution number 18. Those changes are reflected the last I believe the last five pages of that exhibit A. And that it also reflects the employee housing mitigation agreement that we came up with during the course of the review. So that completes my intro of the item. The applicant representatives include Chris Kylie, Matt Keelian and John Perko all representing the Aspen Skin Company on the they'll make their presentation of the proposal. Great. Welcome. Thank you for having us. Well, Jim just stole my thunder because I'm really I'm here to introduce Mack and John, but we're also here to with the rare chance to Fix a mistake. I was the project manager for the LKM restaurant back in 2010 11 when we went through approvals and We internally made the decision to make it smaller than we had originally designed and we have been a victim of that decision since we built the restaurant. Today, we've got the chance to help to alleviate that pressure of its great success. Do in no small part to the relocation of the El Camp chairlift that Mack and John are currently working on, that's opened up an opportunity for us to expand the deck in a way that we think is going to make a meaningful impact on the restaurant and our overall food and beverage operations across the mountain. This project along with the cabin, which we expanded last year are also timed in such a way as to help offset some of the seating pressure that we're going to feel next year with the Uler off restaurant down for a year of construction. So we appreciate staffs working with us to move this through the approval process are happy to be here tonight and make our final presentation. Thank you. Mac on you. Thanks Chris. Good evening. Chris did a great job of starting that up. What do we do here, John? There we go. All right, we're here today for approval of our special review, which, as Chris alluded, expands the proposals to expand and access deck from the main dining room of the El Camp Restaurant. The size of the deck is a little under 2,000 square feet and it is only possible after we move the existing El Camp Chair this summer. So that is part of what's happening there basically the existing existing El Camp Chair for Colorado passenger tramway safety reasons. The restaurant couldn't expand any closer to that chair. So when you go up there this summer, you'll see that we have a couple pieces of concrete that will be sticking out of the ground that are literally on the opposite side of the lift maze up for the El Camp Chair as exists today. So the lift will remain our summer lift through August 4th, open to the public so we'll kind of have a month and a half of some farewell to the El Camp Chair going on for some hiking sightseeing and biking but after August 4th we'll be taking the chairs down, removing the rope and taking down the towers and moving it to its new home. So as you see here and as Chris alluded the goal is to have this constructed later this fall. We do have some infrastructure work that we want to get going right away before the June 21st opening of the L Camp Restruct. So we are under a pretty good timeline with this one and we're hoping to be able to get those seats in before the winter. So what's the need? What's the reason for this? Victim of our own success. Tough to find a seat. We've all been experienced seeing just like this. I believe I took this picture on a Tuesday, for example. And not some holiday Tuesday that's in the middle of Christmas or whatnot, but this is just a day in March. And at the end of the day, the deck will have 130 seats on it in order to access the deck from inside the restaurant. There will be two double doors, one on each end, and that will eliminate roughly 10 seats on the inside of the restaurant. So the net add for the project would be 120. Compared to how many of the dining room now? Around 250 in the dining room. 250. So about 50% of what's there now. Okay. As Jim described, when we brought this to planning the, there was an ask for us to go back and help improve the materials to be more cohesive with the rest of the restaurant, especially from the base perspective. The columns that we originally proposed were steel columns, similar to what you find in some locations, but it didn't have that wood cladding that you see on the other columns that are kind of going diagonal out, where the couches are on the uphill side of the building, the south side, or where the entry is either of the entries, the main one near the gondola or the entry down low that you get to when you ski over from Alpine Springs. So we've clad them, we've added some steel cables that go between, kind of cross section of those function for a couple of reasons, they will help because we're not looking for people to be able to walk under a deck where water will drip through, keep skis out of there, etc. So that will help kind of from a functionality standpoint as well as a visual standpoint. The materials that we're proposing on the structure are all currently on the existing building and we're proposing to use the the Miesel umbrella system which is one of the things that we used over at the cabin successfully last year that can turn it out to our space and do an indoor and so this project would have three of those umbrellas that could go in or out or open or closed so on nice, you can have him closed and be under the open air on days in January, cold days, et cetera. They'll be opened up and there's heaters inside of them as well as lights. So. And here's just a couple of elevation views. The one in the, both of these show the height of the umbrellas when they're in their closed positions in the dash lines and what they would look like in their open positions as well. And then here's a little seating chart. It shows how you would access the space from inside the restaurant. You'd have access about as close as you can to the server on the right-hand side there. And then you would have kind of for egress, you would have another double door that would be closer to the other side. And then here is a site plan that shows where the deck expansion is proposed and if you look at my cursor this is where the deck expansion is proposed on that side of the restaurant and then this shows the layout of the new lift The six pack that will be going in the summer Like the winter condition where where would the maze be the maze would be here where you see the gravel in the summer And when you want to ski past and go down and and I'm zavon funnily go down the right side of the chair You got it just like you do today. You'll go under the left. You just reverse the room. Basically reverse the maze in the lift. Exactly. And that is it. Wonderful. Nice and concise. Try too. You guys, that was great. Thank you. Listen, that restaurant needs this. I think it is really busy with the passenger traffic that just comes up by foot, the coaster, the tubing, the beginner area. I think it's really hard to find a seat sometimes. And so I hope this helps solve the problem. I know I have a couple questions. I'm sure other people do. I mean, one of the questions I have are about the walls. Those, do they come down? The walls, like the glass? Yeah. It does not. So that's always there. The glass will always be there. So I guess like I'm thinking of like right now, if you went into the Alcanne Breastron and you sat on the left-hand side and you were facing the windows that were looking the lifts, you have such like a nice view. And so now you have the windows and then you have another barrier like what is, I'm just what does that look like or feel like? It looks like you'll have a place to find a table. Yeah. You'll still be able to, like, since you'll go from glass to glass, you'll be able to see through light will still come into the restaurant, but there'll be another part. You'll see the back of somebody's head on the other side of the wall during busy times. The windows on the south side, the uphill side, where the sun's most prominent, especially during the winter, those are not being affected at all. Their early morning sunshine is kind of what will be a little, you'll still get it, get. It'll just be a little less in the main dining room on that Eastern wall. And all of the accesses to the outside, whether it be the deck or the other deck, they're all doors like swing doors. There are some of them are. There are swing doors of the, you can see it right here. This is a swing door. The door over here is a swing door. And then the door out of the bar is the door that... Like the wall? Yeah, the nanowall. Can you talk a little bit about under the deck? Because right now people use that for like they come and they put their skis and then they go in and they go to the bathroom where they go upstairs to eat. And so I just want to understand like, is that space still there for that? What does that look like? Yeah, it's a space. It's going to be, you can still walk under it. There will still be an egress path that goes into the kid's ski school dining room. That's under there. But we are going to push the grade out to make it flatter, further out into the hillside to allow for the ski racks to go outside of the deck. So you're not gonna need to go underneath anymore, or in that space. So the underneath is just going to be... It's going to be... Unusable space. Nonusable space. We're not going to be storing things there. It's just going to be a gravel area in the summer because you can't grow plants if you're under a deck and or wood chips and in the winter time it'll just be it'll be snow. And the flooring on the deck is wood with slats so it's like the water. So water will be dripping through. Okay. And then I guess my last question is, I think it's great to expand the seating. Does the restaurant slash cafeteria area have the capacity to keep up with it? Because I'm thinking of when it was closing weekend and you had the Pond Skim stuff set and then you had that whole extra like grill down at that lower level and you had the grill upstairs and you had the restaurant going like what does that really look like? Yeah, there is no size that we could make the back of house for L-Camp to be able to suitably handle a restroom that has no line on a closing day like that. I mean, there's 3,000 people in the vicinity of Elk Camp during a closing party. What we've looked at was our typical, not even typical, but we've looked at our top five days per year. And on the fifth busiest day, we analyze the number of people, not only with what we currently have, but projecting it out a few years. And we analyze the space in the restaurant, would the server be able to keep up? Would the restrooms be able to keep up at a reasonable level? There may be, you know, on those top five days, a little bit of a line at the upstairs restroom, but typically there's no line at the downstairs restroom. There you go. So it's one of those things. You know where there's never a line in the beginner's magic area. Yeah, I know. Oh, you're a little lazy. I mean, you said it. How have you been going to work? It's not really a big deal. We have analyzed the restaurant for these seats and it's a benefit for everybody because frankly, part of the congestion that you get in the restaurant is the you get there and what do you do? You don't go get your food. Put your stuff down. You go to find a seat. So you've walked down the aisle, you've walked back and forth, you've found a chair, you've taken six chairs for five minutes longer than you would need, then you go get your food, then you go down and eat. That whole process is frankly pretty intense on the seats and the infrastructure that are there. So this will help alleviate that. That's why I've for many years recommended seating hosts. Because the problem with that restaurant is, it's not even that there aren't open seats. You can't see the open seats. Yeah, you can't see them. Yeah. Tell them you're seating hosts. Wait a minute, it's the way to go. OK, questions, other questions, Tommy or questions? Yeah. I have also a question about the food service capacity and toilet. She'd say it's ample, it's sufficient. Yeah, we see why I analyzed it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the deck is great and I think it's a good solution and all that. My issues are about under the deck. You know, if you go to the renderer and we never saw that whatever the playing commission saw, we never saw that. So I don't know what it was before. But kids are going to play. One, I think it's a shame just to lose that space. I realize the way the deck is designed and a drip, you really can't do anything down there. Being the owner of a deck that drips, I understand. I wonder if you would consider, you know, doing a waterproof structure there and really using the space underneath. And the other thing is I just worry from a safety point of view, the guy wires, the expression there. I just see people not paying attention, walking into that, getting locked. And if you had to do that, to have wood columns, as opposed to a steel column, though, and you could have a moment connection, I would argue for a steel column, or do a steel column, wrap and water some. but I find those exits to be they could be quite hazardous so I would like to see something else happen there and I'd love to see that space under there be usable for something I mean we're so short on anything even the kids could set outside there right but it would mean water proofing the deck.. The students point, the kids will, I mean it is the entrance to the ski school. So the kids are going to be very tempted. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So sure. I get right there. But you know, and it's, you know, if a water drip in, you have icicles, I mean, it it's not gonna be a safe space unless you waterproof the deck. Is that something guys be amenable to? We originally had it that way. And when we had our meeting, our pre-meeting, I should say, with the fire department, they opposed putting any sort of an under system because basically leaves debris, et cetera, gets under there, and then that's something they've seen at their concern. That's if you've got a wood slat deck and something under it, catch it. But if you did say a concrete deck and you know, with water proofing and then you're flooring on top like you would do an apartment balcony or something, right? You know, you wouldn't have that problem. And I think that just space be ashamed to lose it. I mean, I want to tell you how to do it, but I think that- Well, and I also think to think that no one's gonna go under there to put skis or do it. I mean, people just are. Sometimes there's no space. Yeah, that puts keys. I mean, a great place to play your skis and kids play and stuff. Yeah, no, as far as the space around it is concerned, where we looked at it and we analyzed it and we think we can get about twice as much square footage on the outside that's flat and usable. It may be a little further walk away. Right now, I think we had four racks that were in that area. And if you do the, if you extend that flat area all the way out to the edge of the deck, right now you're only going about halfway that distance. So if you go out and add a few more racks all the way down and have lanes on each side of them, there's no reason to go under the deck. Yeah, but if that space is there and it's accessible, I think it could go there. It's not safe, you know, and if you don't want people there, then don't make a look like you can walk in there, which I think will be a mistake too, because you would lose the windows into the kids area. I don't know, I would encourage you to make it usable under there. Really let the kids sit under there. Was that it? That was it. Susan? Yeah, my question is about the employee housing calculation. And I just wonder if it's appropriate to use the 50% covered deck adjustment for something that really is enclosed and will be used all the time regardless. So I mean I'm concerned about the employee housing piece in general just because I feel like we're I think the 60% mitigation is something that we probably need to look at going forward because I think that seems that we're assuming that 40% of employees can just find housing now. And that's not really a realistic situation at present. And so to me, I'm just really sensitive to that calculation. Just just make sure that we're really thinking through what the employee generation is going to be. And I don't know what the answer is, like how we define deck, and if it's enclosed, And then for you know, if deck, you know, and if it's enclosed and if it, and then if they, you know, change it to a concrete slab, that seems like really more like a room than a deck. So, well, it's true. I mean, if anyone was up at the Linbrit cabin, the cabin this summer, or I mean, this winter, you would know that it felt like in auxiliary space because It was warm cozy comfortable enclosed. Yeah, yeah So I have I have some concerns about that Peace the clarify your concern and it's a valid one The code recognizes this as an an outdoor space, covered outdoor space. But in reality, it really functions just like in a closed restaurant. So in terms of number of employees, I mean, it's going to be used all the time, whether it was covered or open, because it only opened when it's a nice day out, and they expect people out there. So your point's a good one. I don't know if it's fair to ask that the rules be rewritten for this but I think it's something we need to be looking at. It's the rules apply when it's a fully enclosed deck. Is that I don't know what the definition is actually. A deck does not require employee mitigation. When we did the cabin, we went through this discussion and came up with this compromise, where you have an umbrella system where it's a deck at times and enclosed at times. Okay. So that's where we came up with the 50%. I see. Doesn't mean that policy can't change or the code couldn't be rewritten to. So is that in the code or is it something You just came up with a 50% doesn't mean that policy can't change or the code couldn't be rewritten to comedy. So is that in the code or is it something you just came up with? Not something well we. Well that. Not just me but. No I know. But we came up with it through the process of going through the cabins so that we did get some employee mitigation from that. But it's a one off. It's not not a change to the code. Correct. That's not a change to the code. Yeah, we said it functions as an indoor space. When you put that umbrella down and you have the glass around the side, we had that discussion with Asmisske company. And that's how we came up with this compromise. And so I don't know. I mean, because we... So there's a precedent and that's how we used it. But I don't know. I'm not sure that I feel like... I mean, I guess I'm glad that we're mitigating. I should be happy. But I agree with what you're saying, Susan. I mean, I feel like... And't want this to come off the wrong way, but I do feel like the way that the cabin is was different than like what I perceived it was gonna be all the way around. So I I'm a little bit more like, oh this really is like an auxiliary building. It's not just, oh put the umbrellas up, put the umbrellas down. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if they're there. But then if the umbrellas are up or down, the city will be fully occupied. Well, in the walls around. And the employees will be there, you know. So the roof isn't inconsequential because roof is only open when it's a nice day. But that is the rules that they operate under. I can accept that, but I do think we should look at it for future projects. Yeah. Also, just when I look at the shop project and I'm so happy that you're working on housing for your employees. But this will fill her up probably if you put in the other with the Eulerhof and with this project. So I just don't, I feel like are we making progress or are we making the problem bigger, you know, as far as housing goes. So that's something that concerns me. I don't know the answer to that, but- Well, I mean, we have talked about the mitigation mitigation during our goals statement and I mean, we haven't exactly gotten there yet in this application is here now. So I feel like we have to, but I think it is a really important point. And it's something that I'd like to, and I, and I agree with you about questioning the 60% going forward to. Yeah. So, um, Cecilie, do you have any thoughts on that or other things? Yeah, I mean, I, uh, but Tom touched on with the, with the, you know, at the risk of making it more of an indoor space, I just don't think like the way it's going to be used, it makes that much of a difference. Like given what Susan's talking about. Exturge are downstairs. The porch itself is effectively indoors. And so I think to Susan's point, are we mitigating properly for that, maybe not in this project, but something to look at moving forward? At risk of making it even more of an indoor space, I might go ahead and do a solid floor So that you don't have to do the cables because the cables Strike me as something that my kid want to want to go hang on And it just doesn't seem it just doesn't seem great down there. So that was my first concern. The second was, are you guys changing the uphill route? There? No. Okay. When we come around the uphill route, we go through the section that is really stinky. And I was just wondering, is this like, are the bathrooms, are the septic systems able to handle this additional number of bodies that's going to be there? And is there anything that you guys are able to look at to mitigate for sort of the smell that's going on in that region? So. And if I don't know that that's even an indication that things aren't working, it's definitely a noticeable thing, downhill from there. I can comment on both of those. I guess the cross-bracing, first of of all was something that was discussed and added between the planning commission and today and was something that was discussed as a potential solution in response of the conversation that was added. Just to clarify, the cross, not for the cross-bracing brace for the wood columns and with the wood comp right and the wood columns and require the bracing. No, no, the the bracing is architectural not really really that could be removed at any point. Oh, okay. So that that's easy. That is something I thought was absolutely disgusted. Okay. Okay. And I think I'm hearing a consensus so So I'm not going to fight for that one. The second part, the second question there. Okay, okay, and I think I'm hearing a consensus so I'm not gonna fight for that one The second part the second question there on the uphill route. It's a it's not a septic system It's a it's a sewer system and We have sealed lids at at the top of the sewer system and And unfortunately, that's something that sewer smell just escapes through the lids. Throughout, that's just a sanitary sewer problem. We are replacing with the lift construction, replacing about 400 feet of that sewer line. But it wasn't where I don't want to say that that's going to be the solution to the smell issue. As you kind of go around that section of road uphill there, I know exactly what you're talking about. But given that sewer, there's not a capacity issue. It's not a capacity issue. Yeah, it's just a it's an unfortunate thing that smell likes to rise when the rest of the stuff falls. Um, in my final question, I'm sure this was reviewed by the fire department, but just egress because it looks like you have to go like the new 120 people have to go into the main dining room to get out of there. And it just looked like more people without a direct. There's no direct exit off of the. That's correct. The, the, yeah. So just so that I'm not speaking out of the order of operation here, our architect hired a code consultant to review the egress out of off the deck and through the building. The fire department will be, they did preliminary review of these plans, they will be doing their final review between this step and building permit issuance. So I can say that our code reviewer, who does this for a living, and that's what they get paid for, has reviewed everything, and has checked out that the egress through the building is sufficient for the number of seats we're talking about. And can you talk about the front deck and the side deck, you're not doing anything to those? Not touching them. They're staying as is. Staying as is. But am I correct when I read the report, there would previously was a plan to expand the front deck, right? Yeah. But by doing this now, prevents you from expanding that. Yeah, it Tom, that's correct. We had a design that we'll call it the coaster side of the deck. But we couldn't get the elevations to match the existing buildings elevations. So anybody that used that deck would have to go down four to five feet. It was a really difficult thing to do from an accessibility standpoint, et cetera. And so that's why we didn't move forward with that specific project. And between that front deck and the side deck, like how many people can you see? There's roughly 100 seats on the existing outdoor deck. Just on that front one? Just on the front one. Yeah, the existing front deck has roughly 100 seats. Yeah, and as Tom said, the other planned expansion deck to the south side is not something. That's something we're actually losing our rights on we're giving those up with. There's 160 seats. 100. 100. OK, right. 100 on the front. It helps understand. But there's no umbrell no umbrellas no no no balls so I understand the scale of this if that's 100 and this is 130% more than what's on that other deck yeah yeah okay other questions thoughts so I would like to just pull my colleagues here Our way in agreement to remove the X-Bracing which is just decorative anyway Yeah, I think and what do you think about strongly urging the applicant to consider making it a waterproof deck So the space underneath could be used either for the kids or for some, or be used for some practical purpose. Can you go to the image of the under the deck? Please. I think we heard some renderings. How about the renderings? I think so. There you go. So the only... There it is. So there is that door from the kids room. Kid Dizzico outside. Is that a door? Well, that's a door from the kids room. So it gets used? No, not very much. But it could. It could. It's an emergency arrest warrant. Okay. But so it's not like the students' kids. Kids enter in the double door main entrance and the in the basement and then go through Take a left once they get inside the building I would just think you know maybe someday in the future you might want to have a kids play area out there Something so to now the building is a waterproof deck you have all those options in the future if you don't do anything now now, I would really encourage, I'm not going to tell you have to, but I would make a condition that we strongly encourage you to explore that to make it usable space in the hour in the future. Would my colleagues agree with that? Yeah, I mean, I agree. I don't think it'd be very pleasant to be under there and have water or ice dripping water. Libby, it's not. In particular, when there are ice at goals, I mean, that's it. Yeah. But I do think that it's, I mean, I've seen the ski school kids coming in and out of that area. I mean, the inside area and coming out and rolling all over the ground, waiting for their instructor to come out, I could just see it being used, even if you don't intend for it to be used. So. I know it's more cost, but I think it'll be worth having the ability in the future to use that space to make it a water proof structure now. And then I know the employee housing, I mean I don't know what can be done if anything if we wanted to make a change right now probably nothing. Make a change now and that we'd have to look at a code amendment really in the future on how these types of structures would qualify for or what they would require from that mitigation perspective. Do you agree with that, Dave? I agree with that and I think that it would help staff to have some kind of I think for the code to have some guidance as to Dex. Yeah. Yeah. Dex do expand seating areas to some degree and maybe that's, and then, but if they're covered, then they have a higher mitigation requirement. Yeah. Not covered, they have some mitigation requirement. But right now, there's no guidance at all in the code for that. So I think that's something to look at. Yeah. appropriate this time to ask the applicant to do something different than what's been discussed with staff. I just think it's something to look at. I'd be inappropriate this time to ask the applicant to do something different than what's been discussed with staff. I just think it's something that. Well, we look at it in the future if we can look at it more in terms of how the spaces use rather than just whether or not it's covered. You know what I'm saying? I mean, you've got 120 seats that are going to be used, whether it's covered or not, it should be treated like a restaurant. We've had that discussion with the Asmonsky Company when they came in with the cabin. Yeah, and I'm not suggesting we had that conversation out, but when we do look at the code revision, we should... I'm not sure... But they've always worked with us to get there. I'm not sure that we started at the same spot. Okay. And the CUNER already has a provision for covers gaps and they're exact that 50% beyond 4 feet. Yeah, right. As long as it's not enclosed. As long as it's not enclosed. All right. Okay. So, do you want to make a motion with your changes? Make a motion to approve the resolution, whatever number it is in our package. With the addition of an additional condition that we strongly urge the applicant to consider making the deck a waterproof structure so it could be used either now or in the future safely and functionally underneath. That's only change out and make. Okay. Can I get a second? And also removing the cross-bracing? And removing the cross-basing, yes. That's not a problem, right? Okay. Move the crossbreeding. Okay. And then you get a second. Okay. Second. Great. All in favor. Hi. Hi. Any opposed? Okay. Congratulations. Thank you. We'll be seeing you on the deck. Yeah. I'll see you on the deck. Thank you. Thanks. My one question is, you're really going to get that chairlift done between August and Thanksgiving, huh? We got some foundations in already. We're working hard. Where is Fall Fest going to be? It's just a new tower. It'll still be up there. Really? Yes. It will absolutely still be up there. just use fall fest is my son's birthday because it's like the same weekend Oh, I love it. So you guys put on my son's birthday for me, which is really nice We got you all the different flavors of cotton candy and popcorn Free pumpkins. Thank you guys so much party. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. All right Yeah, we still have more meaning All right next is going to be this will be quick. The consent agenda. The only item on the consent agenda will be the draft agendas. Did anyone have anything they wanted to add? Yeah. How about we talk about, um, code and our employee mitigation? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Formula. Yeah. Formula. Well, for a future agenda. Future agendas. We want to have a good time. We want to have a good time. Looking at employee mitigation and looking at maybe ratifying it's not tonight. I just wanted you to hear that. Just for future. No, I can't really agree on that. Yeah, okay. Any other agenda items? Just after I wasn't sure what the next steps were and this is probably a plank clash question, but the next steps on like the policy around the filling of the draw site and it just got brought up again tonight with like the parking and how we're going to be filling. Yes, the programming. Yeah. And how are we going to ask that we go over that? I'd requested that we do that a while ago, but I don't know that I forgot. I think it was with that scene maybe. But once it goes into, once it gets submitted, we probably can't do that until after. Yeah, I mean, I think. Not the program. Not like the design for policy. The policy. Like who gets an apartment and whether or not they pay for parking. Yeah, we have a lot of time. I think probably if it gets through a preliminary plan between preliminary and final and an owner's review, is you're kind of really prepping, moving towards an actual use of that space. We should probably have discussions earlier than that, because it's a part of our performance. Yeah, I guess I had a request today. Right now we're sitting in a land use review. Yeah. These issues are not land use. These are policy. How are we going to determine who gets an apartment? That has nothing to do with what color the apartment is. Pay the review of housing policy in general. Yeah. Well, for policy for this building. I guess I'll say that the parking is paid for or allocated. Well, in Tom and. That's not land. I'll make a note and think about how to get back. And when I had made the request, I think it was transformed into a pilot program maybe just for the draw. But I was more asking to do a review and make sure that we're just to ensure that we're looking at the small businesses, the policies that work for the people living in rentals. I think at this point it's really just pertaining to future rentals. But I had asked, I had made that request sort of with a forward looking, not just looking at the draw, but then it was sort of proposed that we utilize this as a, utilize the draw as a pilot program. I'm sorry, does that make sense? Yes. So we're not going to go back through and change all the housing regulations for all of the current. Exactly. just making sure that everyone's being served, like the small businesses, the people living in them so you're not kicked out the minute you lose your job, like all that kind of stuff, just making sure that it's really working well. And I know that we spoke to Betsy about it and I know we spoke to Clint about it, but then it wasn't put on the agenda. So I wanted to make sure that was somewhere in the works. Okay, cool. And I agree with Susan that we should reexamine the medication. Any other items for the genus? I mean I don't know if I need to. I would like to when we have the fire mitigation presentation. Yes. I would like to talk about some, and I don't know if it's appropriate to do it on that same agenda item or in that same meeting, but we had public comment that suggested we have some sort of a town pickup. if people want to clear debris around their home, we come around and do that. And I talked to Clint a little bit about that. And he said there might be a way to, you know, like maybe people could sign up, or there would be a certain number of permits. It would be hard to do just the entire town, it sounds like, but whatever, just to talk about how that, didn't best all do it too. Yeah, or maybe I'm confused. So we don't need to. So we just have their chipper day, I read. Yeah, but something like that that encourages people to clear around their homes and I'd like to just talk about whether there's any kind of incentives we could give them to actually go through that process where the fire department maybe comes and looks at them and recommends what they should clear. And then... We'll be built on that. I would really like to put in place a program that somehow we could fund where homeowners could get the fire department or some other expert to come and review their whole property and say you need a decision. Well they're doing that as a trial this summer in Carbondale. In Carbondale. Right, no, no, I know what the idea is to expand here. Let's do it here, yeah. But anyway, so this whole conversation would be... I think if you can call the fire protection district and those are... You can, but if we encourage every homeowner to do that, they might need an extra person, we may need to fund it. That's where I'm saying, but if we encourage every homeowner to do that, they'll be swamped. They might need an extra person. We may need to fund it. That's what I'm saying. I think we should really elevate it. Because that's step one, to make all homeowners aware of what they need to do. Step two, which is harder is getting them to do it. But at least, getting them aware. I've had them to my house in the past, it's great. And Tom, is it like from to Susan's point, are there incentives when I look at the number of trees, dead trees on my property that need to be cut down? It's a lot. And my experience with past dead trees was it was like a thousand dollars of tree to cut down. Are there ways that we can meet homeowners halfway to get them to do this type of stuff? Some of it's cheap, some like cutting the grass is cheap, but where are the places where people may be having? That's something we need to talk about because you're talking about probably big dollars. Yeah, and I think it's just, but it is, but perhaps to have a fun, you know, that we could subsise, probably $50,000 kind of number if we made it available to the whole town. But when you think about, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think when you think of the cost to the town of not doing this, And if, you know, five homeowners in a row don't, then that cost could spread the fire rapidly. I mean, you know better than anybody. So I think this conversation should go through. What are the, how effective are these things that we might want to do. You know, how, what are the steps and then how can we help them? These are really questions we should ask on June 2nd, I think, is you say, okay, what should we as town leaders, what should we be considering? What would you recommend that we can help in place that could really be effective? That they can give us information about what would help them and help us. Right. Yeah. For fire mitigation. They're not going to be super, I don't think, excited to be the enforcer. That's where we'll be. No, they won't be the enforcer, but they certainly want to do everything they can to make that town more resistant. Right? So I think that's a good idea. So I think that's a good idea. And given that this year's runoff is at 65%, my concern is that we're not doing this fast enough. I would love to be giving homeowners incentive to be doing it now where there might not be as much. We're having this meeting in two weeks. I know. I know. I just you got to start somewhere. Yeah. So I think anyway that that will be some of my questions and then we may need another agenda item for us to just discuss it after that. Yeah. I think it's a conversation should continue. Yeah, anything. Megan, I have a request for a change which is hopefully not going to be horrible, but the night when the STR conversation was put on the agenda and at my request, I'm in Maine. going to late there. And I'm just afraid that I'm still going to try to join remotely. But I'm afraid that it's not for Megan. That's for us to just come out. So I loved it. Let's change that. I think it's a really important conversation. So let's move it. Let's reschedule. Let's put down reschedule. We'll get just eliminating the work session if there's only going to be three of us here. Yeah, if I didn't have to call into that. I can talk to Claire. Yeah, OK. All right, any others? So hold on. Are we eliminating that work session? We're limit, well, probably, because I have to explain about it when I meet with him, but we have two out and three of us here. And if we're not talking about STRs, is there anything else on that? No. So most likely, but I'll follow up with that. They have said first session in June. Work session in June. OK. If that said, I would take motion to approve the consent agenda. So moved. go ahead Second okay All in favor. Hi Okay town council Reports and actions Tom do you have any? Oh? Was that an EOTC media last week? You were I hope it was brief and effective. It was and it was a great chair. You really just killed it. Great chair. In the cookies were fainted. Thanks. I know how to warm everyone up to Samass. Susan, did you have anything? We have Nordic Council next week and Transportation coalition meeting Thursday or Thursday. But that's all. Is that clear? Did you have anything? I would just say that thanks to everyone who came out for cleanup day, Susan and I had a great time. We were on Sinclair Road and we thought, how much trash could there really be on Sinclair Road? Surprising? Surprisingly a lot. Anyways, it's just the weather held out. It was a really nice day. And it's just thanks to everybody who helped out. Yeah, that's a great fun. We also, Tom and I went to Rafter Retreat. And I that was a successful Rafta Retreat. We had a lot of great participation. Sister Citi's, Britt and I went to Sister Citi's meeting, and I thought one interesting thing they were talking about was the Garmish exchange is going to have their 60th anniversary. And I guess they rotate where it coming here going there and there due to come here. But they won't come here because they've been advised not to travel here. So I think it's just something to think about. I mean, just as we're looking to winter bookings in the next season and what that looks like and projects we're doing and money and all that stuff. Plus, the season after next, the airport's going to be closed. Yeah. God willing. So I want to spend all that a lot of teen tax at one time. And then I'm assuming we're not having drinks with council this month, right? Right. Because it's Memorial Day. Yeah. Okay. Do you still have coffee or something? I'll never do you so choose. Okay. Mike, please. She got you. Okay. And then the June date we're looking to do at Anderson Ranch. Great. Awesome. Well, I would take a motion to adjourn. So moved. And second. Great. All in favor. Hi. Good meeting. What's the reason about it? Yeah. Yes. you you you