I will call to order the March 20th meeting of the Charlotte County Planning Commission. Would anybody like to give the invocation? I will. I'll go ahead and come before you to do the county's business on behalf of the citizens of the county. gives insight and wisdom, patience to do things that are are best interests of all the citizens of the county. We're going to make us aware that resources that we have, as you were it says, that you put the iron in the hills for us to find. Lord, ask that you bless and give us patience and quietness of heart and this next hour, Christening. One minute. Okay. All right, everybody's got a Jinda in their package. Do we have a motion to approve the motion? I'll put it in. Second. Second. All in favor? Ah. Same, same January, minutes are in the package. Do you have a approvalible for both of them. Second. All in favor? All right. Let's see. Now we've got the general public comment period. I guess that would be UPK. If I can do that.? Did you sign the sheet? I did. Okay, I'm just joking. Okay. I'm on the phone. I've heard it today. I'm forwarded to each of you. If I have an accurate email in court, I could not have an email for you. And I forward you an email that was essentially the same email exchange that I had with, starts with an email chat, starts with an email from me, that supervises a wall daily on which chair, on which other supervisors, Dan and Monica were copied. What comes back to me is I was forward from Dan with a response to my questions from Dimension. And then I write back to the individual of Dimension and copy the same people who had been on the E.L. chain before. So that email exchange is about an issue that came up with Gortel's Solar that we hope could be resolved amically. But it involved a 100-foot buffer of existing trees that was part of the conditional and used to permit one of the conditions in the CUP. And it runs along the border of Ed and Janet Revolence property, which is an OCC road. And Ed and Janet convene meeting with the most prominent Indian, three of us from Dominion. A year and a half after the CUP to just make sure Domingo, who was the acquiring of the project, understood where that book was located, that it existed and where it was located. At a very great meeting, it was wonderful. What we didn't know was that several months earlier about electric, about a month and a half earlier, Domingo and landowner had recorded a 50-foot line construction access route that was located inside the 100 feet. So that's been the definition that gets explained there. I'm very hopeful that it's all going to get worked out, just it wasn't concerned. So with that email exchange, there were three attachments. One was a copy of the Stormwater Management Agreement that all the courthouse, it's an eight-page document that all the courthouse solar land owners would sign. There'll be 55 Stormwater Management ponds on that project. And essentially the responsibility for them becomes a covenant that runs with the land, the plasicle land owner. The other thing was, I saw I had a letter there that I sent the SEC Heritage Examiner for you to just read it. And also, they were visuals regarding that project. And so if you want any of this hard copies, I have the hard copy tonight. No action is requested by the planning commission. I just thought we'd find it interesting to see what kind of issues come up as a project goes forward. So that's it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Let me back up one minute. It's not on the agenda, but I'd like to welcome Mr. Curtis Morton to the board. Thank you, I'm glad you're having you on board. The next thing on the agenda is the annual planning commission report. It was included in your packet. Any questions or comments are concerned regarding you. I think the lind that gets the gold star for being 10 or 10. That would be a little bit... Maybe you put you in for a raise. What a thank you. All right. The next item that is on the agenda is to discuss the battery energy storage zoning amendment. So in the packet that everybody got was a copy of the March 12 resolution which was referred battery energy storage systems back to the planning commission for reviews and along with that is a copy of the proposed ordinance that we sent on to them today sent back to us. And the resolution outlines three key issues to be addressed as noted in the agenda. They're seeking input from the seven fire department chiefs regarding fire risks associated with the battery energy storage and determining whether fire risks need to be addressed by the county or the system applicant operator. Second item is regulations for the tier one systems which we set are 600 AWH or less. And in the last item that we are to address and send back recommendations to the commission is has to do with the commission. So according to Virginia Code, we have 100 days from tonight's meeting to submit our recommendation, which means June 28th, probably over something. So therefore, we've got meetings in April, May, and June to deal with this issue. There's a detailed staff report that's been included in your packet to assist the commission in making recommendations. And there are several recommended options for each one of the three key topics that you'll find in your packet and your staff report. So before we have Monica present the staff report, here's what I'm thinking of the proposed next steps for addressing the board of supervisors referral unless there's any objections to any of this and stop them. So tonight I thought we would discuss each area of concern individually. So Monica stopped at the end of each thing. Try to reach consensus on just what our next steps will be. Now that may be asking staff to go back and do some more homework or some legwork or some research for us. We may have come up with an alternate solution or option other than what Monica and staff has recommended. We just may say, okay, we kind of like item number one or option number one or option number two. Then, again, in April, unless there's any objections, we'll review any follow-up actions that we tell Monica to do tonight and then finalize our recommendations at that time. In the main meeting if necessary it's going to be based upon staff's advice of how much changing we do to the ordinance if they're less than what we already submitted or it's minor little things we can for go a public hearing. Best practice would be to have a public hearing on what we're going to recommend to the to the board. And then we can either at that meeting have a discussion and vote on it or or excuse me we would then have to have the after the after the main meeting we can either have a discussion after that meeting and vote on it or we can postpone our motion to the June meeting. So that's the kind of the game plan for tonight. Is there okay with that approach? That way we're not pounding through each one of these. Ms. Beavis Smith, is anything that you wanna add from your as a liaison from the Board of Supervisors? No, I think you covered well. You know, there has the biggest theory of concern for me and for a couple of the other four members is a mental lots size. You know, I think that's a big case in concern. Maybe other four members don't think it's the same concern as I am. And I think there's still a little confusion around tier one battery energy storage systems. I think if that was explaining a little bit more that more people in the public understand what the difference is. You know, we talked about it. I know at least two means, but there's still a lot of misunderstanding. They're looking at tier one and just being a small so-and-and that's not the intent on it. So if we can make it very clear of what the intent of a tier one is, rather than just less than 600 units, if we can define that unit one and see it as one. I had the same thought and you just not to get ahead of things but you know there's I can put three small propane tanks beside my house but I can't put one big one so even if we agree to this we may want to put some set back that says you got to be so far away from the house or whatever. All right Monica if you go go ahead and go through your staff report, I appreciate it. Sure, so I think the chairman has covered a lot of the history. We did provide a findings report to the Board of Supervisors back at their February meeting. At that time they indicated the three issues that you all had said needed additional research, which are the fire risk decommissioning in those tier one systems. They recommended sending them back to you to allow you time to do that research. They did pass a resolution at their March meeting, which is required by State Code to send that back to you. You do have the 100 days, so you have until June 28th. The first issue on there is the fire risk. The comments that were made before in your recommendation whether the Board of Supervisors reach out to all seven fire chiefs to discuss fire risk associated with battery energy storage and determine whether they need to be addressed by the county or the applicant and operator. I did provide some references to the draft ordinance there that indicate where language associated with fire risk is already at in the ordinance. And there's a couple of approaches to getting input from those seven fire chiefs, on whether you want staff to kind of do the legwork on that. We would also recommend looking into citing agreements that are out there for existing projects to see how they address fire equipment and potential support for fire services and then bring a report back to you at your next meeting. You could also invite the fire chiefs here if you wanted to do that to get direct input and that would give you an opportunity maybe to direct some questions to them. So those are kind of the two options that staff has recommended to consider. Any thoughts on any of that? Monica, one of the things when I was reading, I was thinking we've got the regulatory, the NFPA and all that kind of stuff outlined in the ordinance. Could it be something that we do we want to address it in the ordinance or can we, and if we do address it in the ordinance, can we make it general enough so that in the conditional use permit we can put all these requirements. You gotta got to buy a phone machine, you've got to, you know, whatever it may be to do. Should that be in the ordinance? Does the ordinance, by putting stuff like that in the ordinance, ties up or do we, does it want to be real specific or can we do it in the conditional use permit? It depends on how specific you want to be, but you may want to just include language that they're obligated to provide needed equipment to meet their fire safety needs on site, and then you could get specific in the conditions. But I think it's important to understand what types of needs you may be considering. So when you start having preliminary discussions with applicants, they know upfront what the expectation is. So I think my recommendation would be to reach out to the fire achieves and ask them if they would like to come to the next meeting in case we've got any questions, but they they know how to put fires out, they do this day in a day out. So they can say we need a 200 gallons sum sum and I'm thinking well why do you need 200 but anyway so if we're all in agreement with that then we can at this point direct monica to reach out to the seven fire chiefs get their concerns with their equipment needs would be or what well we sell subcontractors if I gave you a million dollars what would you do or could you fix this sure well I don't have a million dollars so now I know you can fix it now so let's figure out what we can do with it so reach out to the seven fire chiefs see their concerns are, what their requirements would be based upon their study of battery energy storage, and then they certainly invite them to come to the next meeting and then make a decision at that point. Does that sound good? Yeah, I agree the only thing I don't know, I reckon I can look into it, but their next association meeting, which will be the seven chiefs will be there. Think you can kind of talk about it together at the next five association meeting to where, because I mean we might send it to one of them and they might not even know what we got going on with better interviews towards them. How often they meet? I don't know in the next meeting this they have on monthly association meetings. I want to say still do a monthly dinner. It just mixes around with where it's going to be. Okay. I know the last one got delayed because it's so and and everything. So I think it was during that time period. I'll ask Linda for a keys, Bill. But if you find out, let me know on that or something. And make a Senate email out so we could go to them. Can we go to the meeting and do that? Is it all I have to be here? If it's for us to go, we'd have to advertise it as air meeting. The developer has actually been to one of their meetings and met with them when he's point had their application in. So I think they are filled in kind of in what is going on with it. But it may be a good opportunity to get them all in the same room and have a discussion. Okay. So, what are these systems systems is it more well, I don't put it out or contain it because I heard when electric cars catch on fire they burn, they burn. Yeah, you run. Yeah. Just try to keep everything around it from burning, which is why we did all the setbacks and lots of of sizes and you had type of things to address that as well. But I think from what I've under read that that's mixed in, you cut the barrel off, doing you let it burn. But they can tell us that. When they talk a whole lot about the foam, you know, I think they try to smutter it with the foam. Right. You know, I don't think the act of this white water, but if the foam is available, we use that to act as Dr. Smother the water. What we've done in data centers and things like that is you've got what they call a halon system and you've been not being that room because it takes all the oxygen out. It replaces it and it smother you get a capemur at that point. I don't know if that works with a more similar palette. But what I for those kind of inputs, I guess, from fire chiefs and then craft the Our recommendations based on that. Well, you said about Having I think adding the whole number one part too, as far as having staff review, best sighting agreements and conditional use conditions for inclusion. You said have staff talk to the fire chiefs and then see if they will, and if they want to come. But also I thought the whole number one part. So when you say Monica review, battery energy storage system, citing agreements and conditional use from it, conditions, you mean like what other people have done in that situation? Right, for existing approved projects to see what others are implemented. Where would you find that information? Through other localities and then we do have a network. When we were in the rural solar consortium, they had some of those resources available to you for both battery energy storage and solar. So we reach out. Because there are no systems right here that are similar to this. Well, the one we went to, so yeah, there are some in Virginia and those are who we would look to. And then we would also, there's a contact at the Department of Energy, Aaron Berryhill, and he's a good resource and probably has some of that information he could share. with Aaron, you know, their multiple battery types. Does he have any insight on would one battery be safer than another battery than another, or would air, what are fire concerns need to be different depending on the technology that's employed? And I can ask when I've asked about differences in technology most of the time I'm hearing hearing the majority of them are still lithium ion and that's kind of what everybody's focused on but I'll ask him if there's additional information about that. And that kind of lends it to what I was saying at the very beginning that you don't be real specific about it because it makes some specific thing and that doesn't even work anymore. So you leave it kind of open. I attended the board meeting in Prince Edward County of the night and that developer, the battery industry storage was a part of that project. And they were talking about a different type of battery that was heavier, had just as much capacity as lithium ion, but didn't have the risk associated with it. So I think whatever we put forth would have to be crafted to the technology that we could expect or may expect. There was one of those ads that are on the pump, the gas pump, and one of the keys to the Exxon plate that they've been playing for two years is about making batteries out of craft shells. Almost got a memorize. I'm just going to say that. Things that commercial people use. I think that goes back to what you said about making it general. So where it is a different kind of battery, it comes along with the special conditions for that in the conditional needs for that? All right, anything else on that? We'll move on to decommission. All right, Monica. The decommissioning, I brought in two different issues associated with it because the recommendation was simply that the Board of Supervisors look into dec commissioning of battery energy storage based on the conversations that were going on. I understood that it was interpreted differently by different members of the planning commission with some relating it to the bond estimate and the ability to get an actual realistic bond estimate since none of these had actually been decommissioned previously. And then some related to the bond requirements in the co-obligate that Commissioner Carwell had brought up. And looking at the bond estimate first, we do have two sections that address this. One is related to the initial application and that says that the estimate has to be prepared and stand by an independent third party professional engineer with expertise in the removal of the systems and the other one is related to the five year estimate recalculation which it says that has to be done by an independent third party professional engineer with expertise and removal as well but it also has or by third party professional engineer approved by the county. So I came up with three different options here and you may have some other ideas, but we could amend both sections to allow for estimates by an independent third party professional engineer who has expertise in battery energy storage construction and then the decommissioning of industrial facilities. And that would encompass kind of knowledge of the facility components as well as knowledge of decommissioning of a large-scale site. We could also amend language for the initial estimate to allow for the third-party professional engineers approved by the county. I think if the county were doing that we would look for some of these same items that are in number one that they had knowledge of components and knowledge of decommissioning practices. And then we can also request staff to obtain input from engineers that are involved in energy infrastructure project development and bonding to get some additional information to bring back to you on the issue. I think that pre-approval is pre-approval of the engineers. It occurs to me that if you were looking at it as two businesses entering into contract with one another, we're one and quarter bomb of the other. Where the county acts as a business, it would be typical if you wanted a stronger provision on a part of the to the land-owned business, which in this case is sort of the county's proxy for that, to say, well, if a majority of the board of supervisors were requested at any time that the county could at its discretion, hard, in addition, in other words, come back and have a second opinion. You see what I'm saying? We haven't seen that in anybody else's language, but I think we're kind of the implication here as we're trying to specify the experience for knowledge or intelligence of a person doing a study, which that's great, but I'm an inexperienced person, and an inexperienced person might still be the same number. The real issue is if you're unhappy with the number. You see what I'm getting at. And whether you want it at that point, you've already chosen your engineer of whatever specifications you rub in here. Do we want to strengthen the county's position by saying that if this number comes back, the county has an opportunity to point at a different. You see what I'm saying? Your experience is not necessarily yielded a different result in the decommissioning of them. I would tend to agree with that, and I would also think language that would not leave the county responsible for that second person as well, the developer will need to. If I'm a big deal, there's a cheap little amount. I'm a bucket dad if I'm a developer because I'm going to say, what I'm thinking in my mind, Virginia Law in a construction project, the general contractor cannot pay for the third party inspector, the gather inspects and handgobbles tests to concrete and does all this thing. It's illegal for me to pay him because the thought process me and if I'm paying him, I've been out of my intended fail. So if we could somehow come up with a mechanism that the developer pays for it, but we hire them. The third party works for us. That would eliminate any of course it's only $10 to take it harder. But in going back to what we're saying is you had it if you weren't happy to rid their your soul and wanted to second opinion. You know that, I don't know that you get it. You get it. I think that's true of any profession, or certified profession, you are taught and where you're educated to your work has got to be relative to all the other work in the industry. So you're taught that you know there's a standard and even when we ask Monica to do something what we do is we're trying to look at all the candidates around us right, you know you can't have this opportunity. I was just trying to make more supervisors comfortable that this number was meaningful if you had a trigger point where it could be rejected and what has for another. How about at the next meeting then I hear her coming on in. Do you think you could draft something or think about something right down the road? Think of a good thing or the rest of us do the same. Staff is here. There are any other examples where we have a second opinion option on anything to this beam? I don't think there is anything in the ordinance. I mean any of the other ordinances, anything else comes up or you get to reject a number because you don't like it. That's what we're talking about. Okay, the first opinion is if it's county of food, would pay for it to come to the re-inverses. And if we were the second opinion, the company is going to involve on paying for that second opinion, they were on pay for it. I agree, but would the county ever, you speaking as board civil rights would the county ever want to pay for a second second. I think unless the guy came back and said it's $2.82. I don't know what it would cost a decommission of battery energy stores. I wouldn't even begin to guess what it's just hope there is somebody that does know. I mean there's no guarantee there is. So he's told me 100,000 or he told me 200. I wouldn't know. That's the way the kid you spot in somebody that is. I hate you. I mean, there's no guarantee there is. Because he's told me, no matter how far. No matter how much sooner you told me 200. I wouldn't know. That's the way the kid gets by in somebody that is educated enough to know how to put this. So I request for staff about bonds in general. Because we're talking about recoculating every five years. Bond's only run one year, is that correct? Usually, yeah. Right. You calculated they buy a bond. The bond company is under no obligation to sell another bond much less formal. You'll follow my logic there. Our construction bonds last more than a year. Some of them do a year but it also has a clause in and about termination and having a replacement bond. So that language is in. We're actually working through that, and not right now with the project we're working on. You know, legal counsel was involved in that. That's one of the conditions that it has to be maintained throughout the life of the project. So before it can be terminated, there's got to be another bond that's lined up for it. And as far as like the bonding process, just a little more information on that, we usually get a bond up front with the application, not a bond. We get an estimate up front with the application. But then when we come back and are doing like the site plan review and the actual bonding process, the cup usually has a condition and it's that they are going to provide an update at that point because it can be many years between the time you approve a project as we're seeing with solar and the time they get to construction. And at that time we do have a third party consultant that's assisting the county's summit engineering is helping us with courthouse solar. So we get that bond estimate that Tim and just done. It also goes to some for them to review. And if they have questions about items, you know, they bring that back and that we asked Tim and to revisit those things and compare it to other things we've looked at. So there is a process and in that sense maybe they already is a second opinion that we're getting and the developer is actually paying the cost associated with that second opinion as well. Is there a life cycle to a battery storage facility? Who knows? Who knows? Who knows that battery life? I mean, it's a little battery. How long do they live? It probably depends on the types of batteries and I mean, there's a variety of technologies and I'm sure they switch them out as needed. But as far as the full facility, I mean I expect it will be like solar where it's going to have a life expectancy that they're going to put down on paper, but whether it's used that long or much longer, there's no real knowing that. So my education was in lead asset battery, which is what we used when I was at the phone company. And we still use. I mean, if you live in drags branch in Charlotte Courthouse, your phone works in the power's out right? That's because there's building full batteries in drags branch and building full batteries in Charlotte Courthouse. And there's building full batteries everywhere. like in Madisonville and in the north part of the district that's generally been discontinued. Your phones there don't work when it powers out. But the here in town, they still do like they did when I was a kid. Those batteries had to be constantly renewed by having acid to them. And we could drain them and take the plates out. This is very simple. It was like five gallon buckets. The batteries I think that we saw, what was said to me was they were similar to the batteries in Toyota vehicles, right? Well, Cassad, C-10s, like maybe it's not a hard drive. The car just drove here in, so has its batteries manufactured. It's a 2010 model, so the batteries are manufactured probably in 2009. And I took its Toyota and asked them that I need new batteries because it's not a response. The batteries don't work as well, but they're still working. So that's driving around on a cell with the my and batteries that are 14 years old. So, for what that's worth? Okay. So, on this action item, we've got the three items for consideration. Let me see if it... If you would... I think we were asking... We should ask Monica to do... Number three... And take... Get some input from engineers... Uh... Involved in energy infrastructure... And bonded... And then let us know something on that. Is that okay? Is that all right? Let's do that. And then we just got a hash out which one of the options above it that we do. Good enough? Alright, we need to go. Is this still, we need to off the bond thing? Well where are we on the page? I guess the middle of the page. The monitor, I guess Mark addressed a co-obligate portion of it. I have not done that section. Because I have different recommendations. Yeah. Okay. Are we ready to move on with that now? Yes, ma'am. Okay. So the co-obligate had been brought up previously first by a citizen and then by commissioner Carl Wyle. The issue basically is that the bond only includes the bonding company and then of course the developer and then the county. There was an interest in or a question. If landowners needed to be protected as well by including them as a co-obligate on the bond. This was previously referred to our county attorney and he had provided a lengthy opinion related to that. There are three primary points though and those were that the interest of the par operative owner should be protected through his lease and any bond requirement that is provided for in the lease and that's something that the landowner would be responsible for negotiating. He said in the unlikely event that the county did not exercise his decommissioning rights and actually decommissioned the project. The property owner may have the right to bring action against the county and if that was the case that would be the case whether or not they were a co-obligate that wouldn't provide them any added protection there. And then he said based on those findings he advised that adding gland owners as a co-obligate would accomplish little if anything of substance. That was shared with the board and then they accepted legal counsel's guidance on the issue. Therefore, staff is recommending accepting legal counsel's opinion and making no changes. Alternatively, we could seek additional input from legal counsel regarding this issue. You think the whole conversation is not about the number one? I'll just say for the record that Mr. Slate represents the county as in the end, not the board supervisors, not the administration, not the citizens, the county's a separate legal entity in Virginia. And he says it protects the county, it protects the county, the legal entity. So yes, the obligy needs to be protected by the, I mean, the landowner needs to be protected by their lease. There's no way outside of the bond that we're seeing the county to actually spend the money or the board of supervisors or the administration to decide to actually spend the money. You've seen us with other types of bonds on other things in the past all over the US. The point is that the county can call the bond and not spend the month and that be resolved. And that was that I think the main intent of saying that there was a co-obligate. So the co-obligate is a person that can call the bond. An obagi meaning you can say look I didn't get what I was up what was. So I get this call upon, the long company pays me instead. And then all the long company does is it turns around a suit, whoever, that was the other side of it. That's just like pre-paid legal. But the question is whether or not there's a way to strengthen that the land actually would be reclaimed in the instance of the bond. I don't think the bonds are ever going to call for the record. I don't think this has ever happened so I'm just saying that there's there doesn't seem to be any cost to it so I just stayed on the record once again that I don't entirely agree with Council but Council's aware of that. Okay, Anything else on that subpoint? Alright, we'll wait a second here. Wait, wait. So, I think I have a text back from Kenny. And he said, if I should meet German, or she was in vessels there. I'm going to put the I'm going to put the I'm going to put it on the top. Do you all want to lay here or more? Go lay here. Come on, go lay here. All right, ma'am. Okay. So the recommendation on the tier one battery energy storage was to refer regulations back to the planning commission for further review to provide the commission additional time to consider the issue. So this is what the board has done just for if you requested here. the commission have additional time to consider the issue. So this is what the board has done just for if you requested here. So the draft ordinance defines tier one as a battery-energy systems with an aggregate energy capacity of less than or equal to 600 kilowatt hours. And if in a room or enclosed area consisting only of a single energy storage system technology. And it does allow for Tier 1 by right and all zoning districts. If you remember this was kind of a change we added at the very end where we did make them by right and village center and in residential. I did try to provide some context here. This has been shared with you before, but it says the average US home uses approximately 30 kilow kilowatt hours per day While the average home in Virginia uses 35 kilowatt hours per day and of course that will vary some depending on weather conditions and Size of the home and that type of thing But a 600 kilowatt hour unit that can be mounted on a trailer measures approximately 8 feet long by 3 foot wide and 5 foot high. It does have some commercial uses and applications at that size and I think that was the question that brought this up as far as the citizen is concerned is putting a battery energy storage system that has some commercial uses that large in the general residential district. we provided three recommendations here. The first was to establish a three-tier system like we do for solar, where we have small battery energy storage, which would be allowed by right in all districts, and then we would have a large residential commercial battery energy storage, which would be from some point up to 600 kilowatt hours, and that would be the conditional use in all districts. And then the utility scale, which would be the condition in general ag and intensive ag and general industrial as currently recommended. The second option is to establish a similar three-tier system as above, but allow those large commercial battery energy storage is by right in all districts except General Residential. And you could do it as conditional and General Residential if you wanted to there to provide you some over site specifically what it is near to communities with higher density. And then the last option is to make their changes. The tier groupings that are in there now are what was seen pretty much across the platforms with that. Anybody who divided it and looked at different sizes used that 600 kind of as the dividing line and had tier one and tier two. But that doesn't mean that's the way we've got together. We did something a little different with solar. I mean it seems to have been working for us on that. Any discussion or thoughts on that? Well I guess we'd have to determine what is small residential, is that based on size or kilowatts or what? I guess it'd be less than 600 kilowatts. What? So, if we have x to 600, over 600, right, for options one and 2 we got to fairly access. It actually would be in a couple of hours. Something to what X is, I'm in favor of option 2 but I'm in favor of option 1. What do you think X ought to be if you split the 600 in two smaller two. That's a little bit that's a little bit of a question. So if we get power two on a home it doesn't sound residential to me. No. Well yeah I mean it'll power 20 small and the spring and the fall. I think we need something that will run, you know, a little power. 20 small homes in the spring and fall for one day. I would need some light and some wood size, which you have, which is the house, because I have no idea. Some of what he was saying is 600 cents large to me, but how much down from 600 would you go for a small? Right. And not out a whole lot of it, just wanted for the house. Right. There's two ways to look at that. We get to argue all day long because you got to, like, I was just jousing with Miller there in my comment, you got to, you get it side with, you pick the biggest house and the coldest day and so on and so forth. But then you, you know, this, that's statistics. The other way to do it is to say, how big is it in terms of stored energy, in terms of the way the fire department measures? I mean, 600 kilowatts, I'm considered to do the math in a second if you guys give me time, but it's not that much stored energy compared to a typical old tank beside your house. The problem is it turns a lot faster and harder. I think your fire department is going to be concerned about how fast the energy is released. That's what makes it hard to control. Right. Heating will lead to people who lie down fired and burn that fast, versus diesel. I think a better way to look at it would be almost from the fire department's point of view, like in a residential area, how big a pile of energy do you want in one place? I mean, there's a battle going on right now in Louisiana with the same thing but it's actually stored grain. So grain is also really dangerous thing to store. The dust from grain will flash off like coal dust. Or still are coal, or stored used tires. Used tires not a good example, right? So I think you should look at limiting this thing, where are you putting it, by how much you can safely store in one place, not who's going to use it. Because you can always come up with some, because there's some other thing in that area of us that's just a house that's by right in that same zone that uses more electricity than a house. So, you know, I don't think it's just about houses, I think it's about how big it's, it's the fact that houses are nearby. You see what I'm saying? I mean, the fire cheeks will probably tell you also is what I said earlier, how far away from the house you got to set the thing. It would set you 30 feet away from the house and it can't just don't fire a word D, but you don't want it in your basement. I wouldn't think. Or right up against your house, your frame house. Same as your propane, thanks. Stand by the all that. So I think a good ball would be, we need to determine what is the intention of a tear-on. What's supposed to be more? A single residence? A couple of residences? That's how we determine half big is going to be. Instead of just, let's just draw a lot of 2600 and zero and make it 300 well then. So that's that's kind of guesswork there. I think we need to determine this. Determine exactly what is a tier one? What is our intention for a tier one to serve? And then we can decide whether what sizes should be and whether should be by by right or in conditional use or whatever. So you're almost put in the ordinance, you can't have a neighborhood battery storage, but it's got to be limited for one house. That would probably just the cost of it alone would probably solve a bunch of issues. Well you guys have seen the Ford truck ads where I run my house off my truck. Yeah that's right. The basic Tesla that I put in this has 50 kilowatt hours. That's you park that in your house. I know people have two of them. Park under their house. Probably yeah. That's batteries aren't you know. It's just batteries. They catch you don't I wouldn't do that. I'm not a dummy. Well, I mean... You got something home on you, you got more wood. So, I mean. You got something home on it. You got more one. The stuff that they have. I mean, I got three people at my house. Yeah. Stoyville, New York, New Haven. And so. Now, is any of those ones like four homes and and all fall under, unlike the building commissioner do they, which would be outside of anything we decide? You mean like the building of fish, when the building co. Yeah. There's safety guidelines. They have to look at what the electrical side of it and stuff, but as far as the regulatory with the zoning and whether or not they're permitted that would that be possible. These aren't like super big dangerous things. 13.5 kilowatt hour, I mean, we were just at the farm show and everybody there had, they're all about 13.5, it has something to do with the way the models are made. But they're all like every body selling weed eaters and anything you would carry are all selling 13.5, kilowatt hour, ivory chargers in there, about the size of them. They're smaller than a standby generator, but smaller the biggest dog crate. I see the answer on TV with a solar panel and they give you the thing. It's like we throw in a solar panel for free and I'm like, what happens? Yeah, the solar panel. The guys sell them long equipment or not messing with you about solar panels. They're selling you what they call superchargers, which means you charge a battery slowly and then use that battery to charge other batteries fast. And so if you want to cut graphs all day with a zero term, commercial zero term, this thing will charge two of them in about 30 minutes. And it's smaller than a foot and you know, or maybe it was taller than that. So it's like a big auto maybe. And people leave them permanently, they were selling trailers with them permanently in the trailer. So I guess that's 13 and a half. That's not timing. I mean, each, if you buy the home batteries, the Tesla sells you to put in your garage, they're designed to be mounted next to your meter panel. I mean, not your meter panel, but your breaker panel inside your house or in your garage. And there are each battery is 13 and a half. You get the 200 really fast So it sounds like you're making a argument for point number one. No, I'm not. I'm being seen. I mean it sounds like, you know, okay, we know that this is a technology so you can anybody could do it. The good Tesla with the long range battery installed, you're going to get it over 100 kilowatt hours. You're going to pass an ordinance, This is, I can't put a Tesla, pocket Tesla in my garage. I mean, that seems... Plus, if you don't allow it by right, how many people will get a battery to charge their house when this comes out and come and get a permit? Zero. We all have batteries already. So I'm saying, and plus nobody, you're going to make it. If we did not go with item number one, then there probably will be a lot of folks breaking. So I'm going to switch my politics. I apologize for testing. I know you'll know about Tesla. The F-150 says the Ford website says 13 133-1 kilowatt hours on the F-150. Are there any electric F-150s? Y'all look out for big truck guys. Anybody know anybody's got an electric F-150? There's an ad. You've all seen the ad. Were you power your house from it? Yeah, that's right. So why did we, so sorry? Why did we just say a house takes 30 to 35? Because you have a ton of air conditioner a lot easier than you can turn on F-150. So that's the physics answer. And you know, I think about you mentioned the spring and the fall. Well, my, I heat and cool both with electricity and my electric bill may be a third more in the heat hottest part of the summer or a third more and obviously lower on spring and fall. If the 30 or 35 is the number of your average, a third more would be 40, 50 per household. So I went and looked at the, I think it's called the EIA, right? That's the federal government. And they have the averages that are statewide averages. and they have such-such are statewide averages and they have such-and-such size buildings such-and-such household. Most of the stuff is household. The problem is most people live in multiple dwelling units, right? And they're not supplementing with wood and so on so forth. It's too many variables. I'm not arguing with... I'm tempted to argue with the 35, but I think that's a ravitry. Right? Well, I hope everybody can get their house as hot as they want or as cool as they want it for 35 kilowatt hours, average over the year. I'm not speaking to 30 percent. That seems reasonable compared to the numbers I've seen. But I'm just saying there are all these other uses now of electricity and batteries. Are you going to really say if I'm running a new with my yard business and I want a caterer, the folks that want to do electric? I mean, I like electric tools. They don't make me smell like Tucson suck. Did I can't have a big battery charger for my stuff that I can charge it faster at night? I mean, that's what they're doing. Can I ask, what is the concern, I guess, with battery energy storage in residential? Is it the risk? In your neighbor's house on fire? That's the only concern I've seen. I mean, that's whatever it was worth by the side. Okay. So, but the truck could do that if... Yeah. And... So I'm just, I guess I'm trying to figure out like, what is that concern to figure out how, you know, where do we go from here. I don't think so. You know I mean like you said a truck can catch on fire electric bikes. The lithium batteries there can explode. Still phones can't come for that. Yeah I mean my concern in three years is when I saw that 600 the the size of it could be 8 foot long, but 3 feet wide, but 5 foot high. So is the size, so is it, what it looks? Well, you know, I would hate to drive the industry in Kieshul and see 8 foot, but 3 foot, but 5 foot unit, send it every house as close as the houses are in Keysville. And it's, I mean, per side too, with per safety, you know. I just go what is a battery energy in a 20 kilowatt hour. This one website is $13,5 to $26,000 for 20. So paying a buy, going gonna be buying on 600. Yeah, the ones I priced about a dollar. That's why it's forever Yeah, that's not about right. Yeah, I agree with sticking to the number one and Like we originally talked about it at the very beginning, but we just got to come up with that number on zero to 300 is small, 300, 600 is large and it's all on its own for worth because that can be hard. That's the best and then I know it's like says 35 kilowatt hours per day for a house but obviously you don't sit the number at 35 because that mean have the use of the drain in the batter to get zero But you're talking about a specific battery. What about all your batteries combined? We'll still we're going on to kilowatt hours But are so that it wouldn't matter what kind of battery would then do you total up all your batteries? Like if you have a truck and you have you know what what I'm saying? You have a truck and then you have, what truck wouldn't be considered a bad word in your story? That was fine. Except that four makes the docking station specifically so you could just park your house off your own. I mean, it's right there on the website, though. I think it sounds like from my perspective, the buy-right up to a certain point of ought to be the thing, because we don't want to regulate. We don't want to get into, you got six weed eaters. You can't do that. But I agree with Hazel, once you get up to 600, once you get in the range of whatever, three to six or four to six, you would know about it, you would know about it, have it get condition used for me. That's really good size. But then when you get under that, the zero to 300, I mean every celebration in the county has, you know, that's how they run when the power goes out. one of them has a battery store-room. I mean, and that's how they operate. They're all totally different, but I can tell you exactly. They're the same. But I mean, they're 560 batteries in a room. They would probably qualify as that 0 to 300. And if we go to that break in the 3 to 6 on it, we're going to need to set some conditions as we do the tier two as the same as right now. I mean right now tier one's got no conditions, so I'm most compared to tier one. The tier one's got no conditions as tier two does. We'll cut a few but not going to do, we'll kind of conditions would you think? Well I don't know, I'm wondering that was just throwing that out there I said if we're gonna you know I'm not sure what we're gonna call it one two and three if we do this is and the tier one is considered an accessory use and the tier two is considered a primary is that correct? Yeah. exception. Another thing, tier two, X to 600 would still be an accessory ease. I can't imagine why you have, how it'd be economical to have a 600 meg kilowatt or less at battery via primary ease. I think one and two of those accessories. It will be in this case, what I was referring to is right now where you have up to 600 and then you have basically utility scale. Yeah, the third one is the primary use. So keep in mind that if you don't make it a primary use, it can't be a lot by itself in that current. So if you make it a primary use, this is catch 22. Well, I wouldn't have said make the primary, but it was wondering whatever use it is that we need to set some conditions for the larger end, those three to 600, are just a little bit of an accessory. An accessory doesn't require the conditions that the tier two, that the primary use does. And no one else addresses this, no other reason you're researched. They do the 600. There's a lot of them don't even deal with the small ones at all. They just deal with 600 and up. And then the ones that do have this tier one and tier two. But there's no other separation. There's, from what I read, batteries are a lot more common in Hawaii because of the way they're electric and set up. And California is an incentive, right? And I think the reason they're at 600 is just what I just said. Ford selling you a truck that's, if you buy the Deluxe package, it's about 131. You know, that's why they're so high in their numbers, right? Because you got households with two testless or a test alone and I've wanted. And you know, I think you... I think that's why they're just not... They're not worried about the low men. Because the whole... There's just too many people buying these things that are giant batteries. Well, what about the tier... If we created tier 20s, 3 and 6? That can be conditional use or by right. Conditional use, 3 and 6. You wouldn't need a point to separate them if it was going to be by right. That's right. The room, yeah, just want to get to the area. The addition is on by right. Yeah, that's right. If you're going to separate it, you would have to make conditions for two. Right. And I think it's a good starting point, like that. Absolutely, you can really search, but it's 0 to 300 kilowatt hours. Being a by right, the 300 to 600 being conditional use permit is a good, really good starting point because once you get over 300 from 3 to 6 I feel like the county ought to be aware where this thing's going. You know? So is there anything that we need Monica or staff to do or we just need to do our own work and study? This Help us to turn up where to break. Break another. Okay. Give us some guidelines. Because I'm going to give it some guidelines. I don't even know. I'm sure it's something to count in now, but like with the typical one, if you bought one tomorrow, the power, how much your square footage is, want to have big a thing with me. I'm sure they're not going to make it 35 kilowatt hours and soon as you used to during the zero, so they might make it 150, I don't know. So this says over 2000. Plus if you're in a city or something, I don't stay out that long. Yeah, I mean, if people that I know, I mean, I have sort of people I work with in other states. We've talked about this just because it comes up. These things are like a big American tourist or suitcase. Turn up the on the smallest side of against the wall. People have two of them. They each do 13.6 kilowatt hours. I mean I think you're probably going to find the vehicle batteries, get ahead of the house, that's very quickly. And and that's I haven't talked to anybody, has more than two of them, but I understand some people have three. I don't know anybody personally has three. I know people have two, that's basically 27, which goes with the 35 number pretty well. It's like that they're not going to run the need to be going. And they're just using these as power back up. Yeah, they're just using them as power back up. I'm just curious. So you're not talking about the big charger in there. They don't charge. So kilowatt hours is how much energy you've stored. Yeah. But there's another number on every one of these things that says how quickly you can dissipate it, how many kilowatts it'll run. And then if you buy more kilowatt hours but you can't pull more kilowatts it just means it's last long. I mean I've got a funny feeling this is got to think Everybody's going to understand well in 10 years. Yeah, well, I mean, yo, we just pick a number and how are you going to, if it's conditional use, without all that is kicking the can down for anything between the low number and the 600, we kind of deal with the conditions the first time somebody asked for one. Do we have to specify an exit? Nobody's going to ask for one. It's going to be about right. No, I thought you said you make them between three and six, you can make a condition. Right. So we'll wait till the first 300 one. Yeah, the first one that comes in at 300, 300, and one, then we don't actually have to specify anything specific except that it's just conditional and we deal with it then. And I think that's going to be part of something bigger when it comes in, when it shows it's something. Not a house. It ain't going to be something Joe will get one. Yeah. Just to be just to have it. It's going to be, unless it's somebody running their dairy farm or their fans or their checking if you could go for one error or something like that. It would be like somebody who will sneak one of those in but... Alright so... Unless it's somebody running their dairy farm or their fans or their chicken coop or whatever or something like that It would be somebody who will sneak one of those in but All right, so any any more on that point So again, the lesser's objections what we'll do is we'll come back next month and we'll address each 20 of those things at that point be prepared to finalize our recommendations. And then we'll base what we come up with to see if we have to do a public hearing in May and then we'll go from there. Anything else on battery, energy storage systems? All right, my, the next thing on the agenda is the staff report. So you have a staff report at the very end of your packet. I will not go over everything in it, but we'll hit a couple of highlights. I'm sure all of you have heard about the PJM delays associated with the solar. They are requiring a 230 KV line be installed in the county for a number of projects that We're scheduled to connect to existing transmission lines, which is causing a delay. They expect to start construction on that in September, and it's supposed to be about a three and a half to four year project. So this would be a courthouse, CPV, tall pines, and quarter horse that would be impacted. Some of these have pulling out of the queue because they will not be able to construct anytime soon to an LPJ MSN. They might have to visit the need for this. So we're not sure exactly where that conversation is going. If you want more information, Dominion did come to the board meeting in March. So there's informational line and the recording and the PowerPoint that they provided is also posted on the county website under the board meeting minutes. But have the information the shark is in is all that correct? For what I hear now, I haven't had a chance to read the article. Cardinal News did do a good article on it though, and I will make sure that that gets forwarded to all of you if you haven't already seen that. But they, I think, just participated in the meeting by Zoom and you know, had recorded information from that and also reached out to PJM afterwards. I will let you know too that the Austin Goldman Project, the CUP, has been terminated on that. The developer has determined that that is not financially viable anymore, but that parcel is now part of the TAIRSOLAR application. And the TAIRSOLAR application we have received and staff has deemed it to be complete. I've talked to the Berkeley Group and they're working on an estimate for their services to give to the developer for approval. And we do anticipate that we will have a 2332 on that project probably in April. So at your next meeting, they'll be looking at scheduling their community meeting. They have to do that within 30 days of getting their notice of completeness. So you'll probably be seeing some more information about that soon. Once they finalize on location and time. Why would they do that if there's no, we're not plugged into it? That is a good question. I think it's because there's been previous discussion about a 4% cap potentially and maybe they're trying to make sure they get their application in up early, but I'm not sure that's the reason nobody has really said why they would do it if they think they're going to have to connect to a line that's not there. I've notified the Berkeley group of that situation just so in their analysis, they will be aware of that and can address that as well. Okay. I'm sorry. I was going to wait to the very very young but since I want to back up to CPV now Since they took their position out of the cube and they took their their no longer part of You know like their application. Where does that leave CPV? They have an approved project still and they plan to get back into the queue at some point They just know it's not something that's on their immediate horizon because of the changes in the utility infrastructure So they are stepping out of the queue for now, but On that this is just me speaking on Patrick's but I have not anybody else because I could be totally wrong, but I've always understood if If you own the cue, you own the cost. That's the way they always describe the dominion So if I'm in the cue and they have to upgrade the solar line And I'm like oh, I can pull off the cue And I get off the cost so if they got upgraded whole line cpv might not be They're pulling away from having a chip end of the cost of that you get them sound so theoretically everybody can pull out the Q with PJM and then PJM will say well nobody's in the Qnet we don't even need to do it at all you know what I mean it's it's it's about it they're playing a they're kicking the they're kicking the can around as all they're doing yeah they're kicking it around and the problem is dominion is dominion's wire and dominion's bulk project so dominion came to that queue. I mean it's but then you got no vine and CPV that they're just playing a game. There's all they're doing. So I don't know where we'll end up but. No, but it's not anything. I mean, they're in terror. Well, I mean, they'll be in terror. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. How long does the CUP last for? How many of the three years plus a two years? One year extension. So three years, one year extension, before they have to pull a building permit. But there was some extensions on a lot of the permits in the past during COVID. They did a long extension for all land use permits So that ended stated that 324 I think it was Normally does it I mean like who extends? The county administrators, the inquiry cup, the one is given the authority, and has to be based on something beyond the control of the law. So does that go before the board or just a decision? I don't have a grand office, but I also always had would be. I would have to go back and look, but I know they've gotten an extension. And they're working on a building permit for some of their construction like trailers and light-end yards and some of that. I must have gone that and the city could stay and act as a bank gotcha. Okay. The other item I had was just to let you know we've got some other conditional uses coming up. I did not actually get that in here. This application just came in yesterday. So I have one for somebody that's looking at opening a convenience store with gas station. so we'll be having that on the April agenda as well So we're gonna have a pretty heavy load in April to take a look at And that's the off-roll that I had All right any questions from Monica All right, the mission's done Well, they make it back up. I've got a question for Monica or Stas. Oh. Does he? I was just curious if the county gets an account of a report as to the status or performance of existing some facilities that are operational now. We do not. Are you looking for like how much power they actually generated? So that's in the minions report that they are required to do annually and it's by facility and it's not just solar, it's everything. You can see the new clear plants and everything. Maybe that annually and it's by facility and it's not just solar, it's everything you can see the new clear plants and everything. They do that annually and it's a little dated, but I show you how to find that. I live at all the time. But is it per project? Yeah, it's per project. It's not, they're not going to show you what days or whatever what they do is, I think it's the name, what they call a nameplate of the project, right? So, you know, that can mean that there's a couple of types of plants that can produce over their name plate, but that's usually like the theoretical perfect, and they never get there. So when we're improving these projects, that's kind of for solar, that's kind of the name plate. They're never going to, they can't get there, or maybe they can. And then they talk about how many kilowatts are generated during the year, or kilowatt hours. And then if you divide that by the number of hours in a year, it's 365.25 times 24, right, wherever that number is, then you get what's called, I think it's called a capacity rating, I think that's right. And that's these percentages that you hear. So the nucleus of about 95% is considered permanent because of big plant every two years you have to take it down for two weeks, so that works out to be 90% otherwise the plant just rolls. And then they show the different coal plants, the coal plants are surprising because they change every year. If you look at one report, I encourage you to look at every, if you're looking at some other insular, I'd say look at a bunch, you get yours because the coal plant's all over the map. Like one plant will produce only like 10% one year and it'll be like 65% another year. and then the solar farms are each, even the little tiny ones. They're big enough to be on what's called the IRP, which is this plan that they have to follow every year, and they get proven, they follow out turbine and get proven to march. But the document, I think it comes out, I've never looked at A, piece of only looked at the minions, I think it comes out every October. I don't know what the date range on it, but it's a full year. So it's, I mean, it's kind of, if that's what you're looking for, it shows you. Well, I just, it's one of the sales like the information is available. Would it be possible? I can go on our website and we can see a number of acres approved, what's operating, what's not. Would it be a big deal to have another column with that number? Well, obviously all of ours are you in it like the two little ones? They aren't dominions projects. I've never seen them. You'd I mean, but we've approved them I think the county should know what their presentation. Oh, yeah, but once I'm not counting. Not counting the little ones. Two little ones. They're all a zero right now, right? Didn't that they're not built yet, except for the two little ones? Am I missing something? He's coming to the two little ones. He's coming to the two little ones. 20 and right on Red House. I'm not. OK, so I don't know if 20's Creek and Red Oss are on the Dominion report because they're answer good question. 20s Creek might be, I think 20s Creek might be, the Red Oss one is connected to the sub-station. It's not connected to the transmission. But that power is being metered as it's leaving. Somebody has that information. I'm just backing up saying I'm not sure Red Oss is on the report that'm referring to. Because I have looked to see if that's a lake. We'll check and see with our contacts for the projects and see if there's a way to obtain it. You know, at my other comment, kind of goes back to the bond issue on the battery stuff. 50 years ago my dad was hired to dig some of the initial landfill pits out here just outside of town. I remember playing on those piles of dirt when I would be able to work with him in the strategies. After I got out of college, I came to a meeting and they were talking about additional calls that the county was having to incur. And it's still incurring for the garbage that's buried out there. You know, I think we need to be very careful to make sure we set this number high enough to protect the county from unique liability or whatever needs to be done and make sure to develop a foot to build for that. So I think we have a tremendous responsibility to protect the county with these decisions we were made here and passed as long to the board. Just to be clear. The other thoughts? Was there any question for you? Oh, commissioner Stan. Yeah. I just thought, just thinking, and I guess it could kind of bounce off me, I'm not sure, I was just thinking after Monica just told us this April, Taylor O'Sola, you know, was coming. And we haven't seen any of them be built. I mean, we can't go out here and get together and say, look, let's go look at one. But they're still coming out. And then we've got this hiccup in the line with PJM and Dominion and now they're going to put it all four more years. And I thought about it last night, I know it sounds crazy, but I woke up before this morning thinking about what direction do you go with T-Rough? Because nothing that we put on that whole wire, there's not a bulldozer there. There's nothing. There's zero progress. And then you got dominion. We can't go off with they tell us they hadn't told us right yet that I know of. So all the work they put into this table, I mean, I don't even know how to go about it in April. You just, we can't base it off all on the project, but I'm good, no, no. I mean, it's just, it's hard. And I don't want 10 years from now, you know, my daughter's being school and to say, oh, you have one of the ones up there on the board that just, you know, Run the county, you know down that whole transmission line. Because we can't go here and say, I'm going to go look at courthouse solar. I want to go down here and look at it. up there on the board to just run the county down that whole transmission line. Because we can't go here and say I'm going to look at Courthouse Solar. I want to go down here and look at Courthouse Solar. But nothing to go off of. We just think that our ideas that we have in place, we really, we've got a good group and we've put our brains together on it and we think we've got to be able to build a good one. But they built one. Well, and the thing too is, which concerns me is like in Appomattox and Campbell and Luisa counties, they're having problems with like runoff and erosion and the retention pond issues and there's nothing that they can do about it because DEQ is like, you know, finding them but the developers aren't fixing it and they're not doing anything about it. The county, this was I think, the last one I read was Luis and County I think and they're maybe it's the one on TV, Campbell probably. And they said that the boards, as we can't do anything, the EQ's not doing anything. So I think, you know, just kind of, you know, adding to what you're saying is, there's issues that other counties have experienced because of what solar they have put in. And so, yeah, should we be a little bit more, you know, apprehensive about it? And how do we, they thought they were putting in all the right conditions too. And, you know, indeed, you could have approved. And yet, you know, like Anna's messed up, a private lake's messed up, there's erosion, there's issues everywhere so just yeah just correct me for all the first step is to say does it or does not it comply with the comprehensive plan right so that's kind of our first charge I don't think it's you can say it does it for whatever reason you don't want it to be but I think we just got to remember that's what our that's what our task is doesn't comply with the comprehensive plan. The comprehensive plan talks about planning for the and all in all aspects. And then you say yes and then you then you review the condition, where you then can make, you know, do whatever you can, you can put all your conditions on it. I guess my point is you can put all the conditions you want, but it doesn't mean that it's going to turn out okay. And don't get me wrong, you know, I mean the ones that are coming up both in favor of them. So I'm not saying that... Well, that's why I said it. Yeah, no, I voted in favor of them. But now it's at this point. If I fall five or six houses in the contractor, I never built the first one. I don't think I'm going to buy the next one. I want to see some of the first house. Yeah. And it just, that's just, I've been thinking about that a whole lot because we're not, we're not. A rubber stamp operation. Yeah. For everything's just get the stamps. Mac going in this. Well, let's see how that unfolds. And I'm not a conspiracy. I'm not a conspiracy theory guy. but this stinks because some you knew. If I built a building and then said, oh wait, we don't have water pressure to run the sprinkler system. That'd be fired in a hot minute. Or we can't get power. There's not enough power here to run this building. I mean, that's what you asked before you put pen and paper. So this one, this smells funny. Again, I'm not a conspiracy theory, but it's, uh, I don't think we got to be a good liaison between the minion and these people who were in the project, the land owners, and the county's land, because there's one thing that's 100% for certain that's dominions about it oh mighty dollar not our county I mean that's so we got to be about the county part of it and meet them somewhere in the middle That was my 4-8M thoughts. I have those too. Might have been a nightmare. What's coming with age? There's my four or eight-hemp thoughts. I have those too. Might have been a nightmare. Maybe. They're pretty much on a welding instructor. They're probably working on a welding practice. Second year they're in it. They find a welding instructor. And he comes in to start using the input ventilation system in that part. The welding. The welding shock head ventilation system. It's funny because if you call something a paint room, you got to do all kinds of crazy stuff, or if you call it a, we did it at Maddox, if you call it a lab, like a chemistry lab. Well, that's what the welding lab is. Yeah, but if you call it certain things, if you call it a classroom, you don't have to put all the ventilation in it, you put the LAB on it, you got to do a bunch of other stuff. I wanted a welding lab, that's somebody. Goofed up there. I would, I would also just like to add Virginia DQ I've had some dealings within starting the end of November where they were supposed to take on some of the responsibilities that I and my job overseas logging jobs. We were told to turn those logging jobs over to DQ. In Rono, I sent them those parcels. The end of February I haven't hadn't heard anything else out of anybody, it'd be huge, and they said they're not getting guidance from their state office, on what their state office had agreed to do. So, and I don't know I can't get a straight answer as to why they're not. And that's a little concern in the two. If we've got two state agencies that have come to an agreement that this is how someone's going to be handled. But the one state agent, the head of our region or whatever our own, just shrugs your shoulders and says, I can't get any guidance out of our state office. That's concerning for me. It blows my mind that these things happen on these solar farms because they must be investment contractors and leaving solar guys alone because they wear me out. I mean, wear me out. It's... When I hear it, it's like, when I read the things that they got by with, I'm like, I don't put a washout bit for a concrete truck and they come in and write me out. That kind of thing, just like. I'm putting the concrete in a hole that I'm tugging to the ground, but I can't pile it up on the ground beside it though. That's a rule. And they'll do it. Like I got all the faith in the world, everybody on the commission, but I feel like after they build the first one, unless we are perfect people and I know none of us are. That's going to be something we wish we would have. You know, where you say this? It's a warm thing right here. Yeah, that's what they do with Tweety's Creek. Learned all along. And done. You know, where you're going to say that's a warm thing right here. You know, that's what we didn't think about right here. Yeah, that's too late. And that's what they do with Tweety's Creek. Learn all for long. And I guess I'll just wear our stand. You got it. Yes sir. I have one question from my honest man. There has been a site visit to Baddestorch. I think some of the board, some of us have attended, they were some of the planning conditions. Has there been any other interests or another, I know I haven't had an opportunity to actually see a bad storage, but I do have an interest in actually seeing the site asking questions, getting a better feel for it directly from the main source. Maybe that the board, I don't know, may be interested in going back. There were some new ones that have come on and some that didn't participate and as this issue moves to them soon, it may be something that they're looking at revisiting and I can get with them on that and we can maybe check with the board and see if we need to schedule another site visit. I think they're more on the board than did not go. I think it's quite a few. Well, we're dealing with it now. Can we get a sooner rather later? We have some. We know where it is. We can just drop it. Well now you know what to ask. Now that you've gone through and tried to come up with something, now you know, I didn't look at that. Who I went. So what did you do? I think Hazel was the only board member that's now still the board member that went. Okay, good point. But is it a character? The reason that once you then go did you not go because it was not Not conveniently work I mean is there way to solve that problem We basically have to like June the 28th if we want to do sex on up between now and June to make it happen We've sings run 24 hours a day we can't go on a Saturday or something. Well we have to coordinate what the company. I mean yeah that's what I mean. The man in once he sings at the club is we gotta get our guys. The whole thing goes where I got it. And we can, we can, we can, we can not, I mean we we can we got time we got a hundred days Russian it's a nice man and a door one to put one See Yeah, you need to do it. We're going to have to order it. We're going to have to order it. We're going to have to order it. You have to order another thing. I think it's a kickball. We're going to have to order it. I'd like to get there. The person is going to have to maybe visit to instead of worship ship. Should have point the new board member. In the line, so. Sometimes after that, maybe if there's an interest, I think that many could be open to providing another two watches. I can expect a galaxy. Are you willing to buy? Yeah. Here's the bus rower. Yeah. Good to activity bus. I'm just going to check the problem. Yeah, see if I can. Okay. I can send the bus again. Are you all right, Amy? Any other comments? Motion to adjourn. Sorry, I know. Motion to adjourn. I can't do you here. I'm going to lock these hard trucks. I'm going to do a turn. I'm going to do a hit. I want these hard shots. I'll take one. Hi Dave. I want one. It's an awesome mountain. It's a pretty nice strike. And then there's the jogging. And then you're going to go in.