We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. We can have a minute. as a workshop is among the commissioners. If you're here to observe, please do so. If you would try to put the noise down so that we can actually have our meetings. So welcome. The first item on our agenda is to agenda approval. So look for the will of the board. I'm not sure we have for the agenda. Thank you. I'm gonna motion the next item. Thank you. I have a motion to second meeting discussion. You're not gonna call the question. Thank you. I'm motioned. Next. Thank you. I have a motion to second meeting discussion. You're not in a call to question. I'll give you a raise your right hand. Any folks like why? It's OK, Rudy. Mr. As you wear, this is, um, I'm 4154. It's only item under our agenda besides the two adjourned. This is the budget workshop. This is the workshop among the commission who's regarding the budget message that we see better last record or meeting from the County Manager on his recommendation for the upcoming budget at this meeting and then in our following meeting we will have the opportunity to discuss the recommended budget or any modifications or changes thereof that this board has with It this has decided to put in place before we have our public hearing and before we have the budget adoption. This is outlined of course on our website as we have the listing of these dates there. Commissioners we represented this budget message and we've had time to digest it. You know I have your blue books and your other books from the fire departments. And we have our white sheet. And now this time, this is more we're going into more of an informal setting. We are not voting on anything tonight because it's a workshop. We can't vote anything tonight. We can come to a consensus. We can have discussion. And so at this point I'm on a pause and allow either one of my fellow commissioners to be recognized by the chair but the committee. So commissioners. Well I'm opposed to a just to just to let everybody know and You know as you come to us with the budget proposal so my recommendation is going to be that Staff goes back and brings us a budget that does not have a tax increase in it. That's my recommendation Make a commissioner. commissioner. Anybody else like to comment? I feel the exact same way, but For 11 years we've kept the budget the same or not raised any taxes. We've lowered the taxes matter fact for the last two years. I don't end up starting it from now. raised any taxes. We lowered the taxes, matter of fact, for the last two years. I don't end up starting from that. Yeah, I'm not for any tax increase whatsoever. And I know the departments have to look at it. I know the school system has to look at it. I went to look at ICC funding, but not for any tax increase. I'm going to go off of that and say the same. I actually asked the community on Facebook post got an abundant message back. We do not want taxors to go up and I'm right there with you, but I do and I'm new with this. I'm learning this budget stuff, but I look forward to working with you guys and coming up with a way to adequately fund our departments, all of our departments, but I think we really need to look at our emergency services, our school system, Sheriff's Office, and figure out a way to give them what they're asking for without raising taxes. And I think we need to start with figuring out where we can make cuts at. Commissioners. OK. Well, that clears a lot of things up right now. We also have, we have things before us. We had a hurricane that came through our community that we all know. The state of North Carolina is still under state emergency. Ruff Academy is still under state emergency. We've had people in our community that are hurting still from the hurricane itself. And you know, family was here and I appreciate it. But we've had people that have spent money on their own pocket just trying to recover the damages that happened to their house, to their homes. Personally, I lost everything $1,000 that I had paid for correcting my property. I had home insurance denied, I had FEMA flooded terms that didn't I? You know, last thing that personally, when I wanted to do was pay more taxes. And so, you know, we're not taking a boat here, but you kind of see where I'm leaning to. But I also see that we have a lot of, we have needs. I think it's a tremendous difference between the amount of respect our fundings, our revenue is going to be versus our request. So throughout our whole budget, we're going to have to have areas that will need to be re-look at. Some will have to throttle back, maybe their request. We don't have funding to fund everything for everybody. Here we go. This year. Everybody is hurting this year. we're not going to add any more pain to our citizens, especially the property owners and the taxpayers. There's no ones that are footing the bill. And... Sorry, I don't want to keep talking about it, but I really think that we should ask the staff if they can come back with a plan B for us to consider at our next meeting. And before I go on, is there anything somebody else would like to add on to or participate? So, Jeremy, I'm with Hunter on this, looking through the departments and the request. And most of the departments are averaging in that four to six, seven percent. While we have two or three entities that are 40, 41 percent request above any budget that we've had, it would make sense to me that we address those. As well as maybe look at some of the others, but I know the staff job to look at that, but that would be my direction. We got a couple big outliers there. We got some needs. I agree with Hunter on the safety concerns is keeping that atop priority. Keeping our citizen safe or school children safe or school ground safe. Also we just you know made the change without them control. I think that was a positive change. We'll help us financially move forward, have that locked down with the private partnership that we did, but there's also some needs there with the Sheriff's Department we need to look at to help make that function the way it should. So I know that there's some concerns on the safety side with the SROs as well as animal control and safety. It's a hard task. My hands on kind of person, it's really hard for me to just say, hey, go fix this. But I know that that's what we need to do. We need to have a better number. Yes, sir. Mine. I mean I'm, you know I know the, we talk about the hurricane but you know everybody in here was affected by that hurricane in one way, shape or form, whether you lost work, whether you had damage at your house and this is not a year to be adding injury to insult and you you know, raising taxes. So we need to keep on flat and do what we can to make that happen. Because, you know, everybody is affected. It has been. And some people are still affected by what took place. So, Chairman, back on what Commissioner Tony just said, I don't know where the state of Prover Tax Collection, what sales tax collection is, is this something that can be spoke about are we on trend or we below trend? I think we have projected an increase of point something. Paul, we just sent you that out, baby. Send us the next. Since the next data. There are a lot of numbers in there. We projected or predicted is happening. It is happening. You're seeing a downward trend. I think it's like 0.97 potential growth. Yes. 1% down. So we're usually seeing 3% to 5% growth each year. but right now that's trending downward. So if you're seeing 4 to 5% growth and we're trending down, that will be a 6% change from last year in the negative? No, because I think we've projected less last year too. Okay. We are projecting just above what we have budgeted. But our budgeted number is almost $1 million less than last year, the cost of the reallocation process. And then we had planned on using 2.4 million from last year's budget, out of the fund balance to balance the budget. Is that still happening? How has, do you have any indication of how that's looking? Are we still going to need the 2.4 more or less. Less. Okay. For this year? For the current year. Yeah. After the current year. Yeah. You know, we've been successfully cheer when we had used fund balance to be able to recapture most or some or all of that. Okay. And we're on training for that too. I don't know what that number is right at the moment. We're only into the beginning part of May. Right now we are on trend and continue to try to recapture some of that. And is it accurate, Paula, to say, I'm no in my business? to the beginning part of May, right now we are on trend and continue to try to recapture some of that. And is it accurate, Paul, to say, I'm no in my business, we've closed December 30th, but it takes me a couple months to figure out where I'm really sitting. That's right. Is that accurate with the county budget? Will you see where- We did not get our final sales tax distribution until September 15th. except 15th is when you get distribution, but then how long does it take you to complete that calculation to be able to tell us, okay, this is where we actually landed. We will normally be the first week of October when we're here with the field doctor. First week of October. To know how far in the fund balance we may have had this ban. Regarding sales tax, the county and the past has received sales tax and a portion of that is allocated first day law to or school systems, but correct Yes, there are two articles that are restricted for school capital Okay, but now in this day and time since for a city has to say raise taxes two years in a row and begin the highest taxing authority In the county the dollars the county used to receive now up to $2 million a year is now going to for city through the the So we're receiving $2 million a year less less That accurate there has been some growth to the counters that so it's probably between a million and a half Okay, so the two a period but on the information that was shared earlier today Then there's I believe a three-year trend on it so you can see that fluctuation you're every year Cell stacks to over the last several years has performed anybody's expectations because of all the supplemental federal money that was put into the system to the private individuals as well as businesses and government entities. So you see that trend ending or is it continuing? That is ending. The money's running out. Majority of counties are budgeting little to no increase to their sales tax expectations for next year. like Steve said, said, we normally see a 2% to 3% growth in sales tax of natural growth year every year, just because pricing changes and that sort of thing. But for the upcoming year, people are very hesitant due to federal factors with tariffs, supply chain issues continuing, as well as just increase pricing. there's not that flood of money in the system anymore from COVID. Most of those funds had to be spent by December of 2024 so the dates have passed. One of the COVID-19 time frame when all the folks started getting coronavirus funds in in ARPA, then also two for our county. If you remember a couple of years ago we're very fortunate but we received through the whole county town by apartments 90 million dollars in state appropriations all these funds are primarily being used to spend toward own one time one in done time projects so it's great but you see state wide where all the towns and counties and others that receive those funds but now that we're coming to an end of that those funds have to be fully committed by the end of December and fully spent by the end of this December in 2026. Most governments that receive those funds are at a point of either having fully depleted them or are still working toward that so that's the driver, we think that's really driven up sales tax. So that's not an ongoing, it's not sustainable. So we think what's gonna happen is you're gonna start seeing a true enough of what that number looks like, but in the meantime, you're gonna have stuff to do that reduction. So we are seeing a general reduction in sales tax over time. And I know in conversations with Chairman Maul, that that has affected the school system as well as those dollars that inflicts dollars over the last several years and it going away. But I have had conversations with other commissions Cleveland County Commission, Polk County Commission. I know we had a study with Burke County that seems their numbers are standing in the school system. They're not seeing a major new ask to their counties. So I know those things have to be looked at as well to try to figure out, okay, what's the driver behind this? Okay, I just say quickly, Chairman, we appreciate it. Appreciate the commissioner. We've had conversations with the one of the last couple of weeks. And it seems clear based on what you're seeing, what your desire, how it seems, move forward. But also, I did appreciate it. We received a lot of emails about calls. A lot of folks that are showing up here today, they're pretty insistent. They've offered good sound reasons why. You want to tax rate increase. should should be out the table. I appreciate what your stand is and what I hear you say, loud and clear is no tax rate increase and you need to start from the pencils and no bags. I'll just advise it. We'll get our team together and start working toward that for the next couple of weeks before your next workshop and bring something back to you, it does not have a tax rate increase in it. So thank you again for that advisement. We are your instructions, line of clue. Thank you, Dean. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anything else the board commission like that? And it's workshop to each other. The reason we have workshops, we have a corn of commissioners. We're now out having business privately. That's the meeting law. And so if you need the help, I'm leaving it up to the board. Sure, but I'll add one more thing. We certainly have increased the port of our fire departments, but each year you do not have the evidence of the fire departments, but you as a board, you do set their tax rates. So we did provide you with the packet of what they requested. Generally, the practice has been for the commission's review that is if a fire district is looking to look for an increase for our service, the site of Sanitary also falls on that. General, we want to ensure they're providing you with enough information and suspension just by that request for an increase. As you know, all fire departments, the cat they have is 15 cents. I think for all of River, whatever that farm part, they're different, they're multi-county, so I think their cat is higher, maybe 16 cents, and they're at that full cat. Not a bar of farm, but they're at that full cat, you have 15, but we have some that are lower, some that are higher. But you do have a request from many of them asking for a rate increase, where I will say to them, I know that for a lot of them, they use that money for not only apparatus but bar trust. I know that they a lot of them, they use that money for not only apparatus but bar trunks and other equipment that they may need. You're building facilities but also for staffing. Volunteerism is what used to be bar departments. One thing I would say to each of you though, before now in the next meeting is please take a look at those notebooks. We just need to make sure that you're comfortable that they have provided you with acquits, substantial, justifications, substantial, before asking for a request. I think out of the fire departments, maybe five, have requested six. Six. Requestioning, please. Cliff Sotts, sanitary is one of those. So does that affect county water? Just their region. It's their region. It's their region. Okay. Thank you. Each part has its own rate. You'll see variation in summer's lowest six or seven. I want to thank. Some higher to 12 13. And if I'm in finger field we'll be dissolving in the apartment and then being absorbed by the town of Lake Lour. So there will be additional information brought to you all to redraw those districts. Cliffside sanitary, we requested additional information from them because their tax rate and what their fee structure is is not enough to accommodate their current budget. If you remember normally there was anywhere between 100 or 250,000, this state has been putting into that budget since 2000 19 when they took it over and with them no longer being under the LGC's authority that many is not available within their budget at this point. So we've got to seek additional information there. What's the differential? They have about $54,000 differential, I believe, that's their shortage. But when you look at their budget request in their revenue section, then they have a short fall referenced. And that's the amount that they're trying to potentially request from the county. I think ultimately you want to take over, us to take it back over and it's not. Yeah, if you call the state, it is up taken over the books for five years. It was on his five years, but there was access to DEQ, distressed unit money that kept them functional and operational during that time, and now that they're no longer under the LGC's control that many doesn't appear to be available. As a reminder, that's no system that started when the mills were there. We've been discussing for years about how do you just not have it. The challenge is you've got a couple of schools in churches, a few businesses, one or two industries on it, but most of the homes are part of the old mill. and there's not enough acreage on each of those parcels to do us a separate set. It's only to this. It's there. The system's old. There's a lot of the lines. At some point there's going to have to be a look at the infrastructure because a lot of it's still old tarot cob of lines and some pump stations that need to be reworked. And of course the plan itself was built from our industry. It doesn't need to be that large anymore. They did receive a grant of $2.8 million I believe. And hopefully that's going to get them to where they can make some improvements to that system. And at the same time, they're still going to continue to struggle because they can only go so far on the rate to those citizens because most of the citizens who live on that, they're working class, the folks, it's just, it would be a struggle for them to see that rate go up beyond what their fiscal capacity is just like you're done with, trying to look where my presentation to you for the tax rate increases. It's the same situation. It's not a, it's not a high level. They're 56,000 short now. Do you know what they're making a trend as been? Is that a normal yearly shortage or is that just build up over the years? There have been times that we have come in and offered some support financially, but it's usually been for one time infrastructure top things. This is first time I came to this, but again, Cliff's not sanitary, the state barbed of the Treasury just handed it back to him last fall. So they're starting to get re-established. So this is the first time in four to five years that they have been operating and moving forward on their own. They haven't received quite a amount of good assistance from Rihanna Cutter, Broad River Water. Broad River still does a bill for them, but she's agreed to step in and try to assist them on the Treasury side. So I have no doubt to believe that this is just where they are. The value of their penny is so low. I think we were just talking about that earlier. If you can't just increase that rate because you're talking about going from 5.5 to about 50 cents and that's just not workable. So that leaves that's's what leaves that deficit. Commissioner, before you start to serve here. And thank you for serving. But the Cliffsites Antation District is a governing body. It's kind of like TDA use. And so, but in that instance, within you have to be a citizen living in that district to serve on the guarding body. And so we've have some volunteers that have stepped up to fill that role. Before when the LGC took it over, there was no one there. It was a good people. It was a ghost board. And so there was no one making decisions with the vendor, no one makes each sign checks, nothing like that. And it just went down. Demographically, these are the citizens that live in that district are not the most affluent. In our community, and I think personally, I think they deserve our support during this time. I don't have an answer to this. We talked about this with the LGC, is that a pathway should be considered with a entity in in our community that actually does water treatment. It's part of their will house, which is what you do have their rubber as a, or so you guys, or there are others that could come in. But it would take a tremendous amount of money to upfit the system in order to be feasible. And so it's just really been a discussion that we've been having, but we're gonna come to the point soon. We'll arrive to put it in the other houses, it's less than 30, I think. What's that? I think it is. I mean, I mean, I was just talking about 60, I believe, right? Yeah. We have two public schools. Yeah, we have schools and churches and business. There's a lot of business. There's two of the industries there, Abraham, and whatever the tip of the phone are in one beside the one right. Yeah, I don't want to. There's another company there now. And of course, several commercial owners. Our EMS and library is also on that system in the carol. But I just want to say that when we were in, when we and I mean in Cliffside, where in desperate need of a volunteer so much. But I just want to say that when we were in when we and I may include the Cliffside where in desperate need of a volunteer somebody to stand up and be part of the governing body there we've had people that do that and you know I think they're asking. Okay. Okay. Right. And now, that's right. Right. Um, we're starting. I see every, for your proof otherwise they are self-government. They're an independent local government authority. And what the chairman said, you have to leave in that district to even be able to serve in that board. Use an opportunity. House or house? Yes, where this just remind people that you live in that district. We need your vacancy. We need your vacancy. If you're in here and you live in a cliff-side district, and basically because it's the governing body, it was in a decision on real taxing in the future and working with other government organizations such as Ruther County and the state of Carolina. And then in search, it's over there. Thanks, Chair. With the direction that we provided you, we like to point out my concerns. We have coming for us. We have, and I'm just gonna lay it out there. We were very fortunate enough that we were able to come out quickly and fast to address the debris cleaner. And, but I know that once and that is that it's taking quite an investment of our available reserves, we should we don't know when we'll have that back. And when, because we don't know how fast FEMA reports, not pretty fast, but the detention center It is a priority. We received $10 million from the state on that. I think it's meant to have eight left. I believe it's probably cost another 68 to finish that because to the plans of what the job was received. Yes sir. Yes sir. I'm just saying we have these we have these needs that I see on the rising We have our professional law enforcement offices because when we work in the Chances Center The law enforcement officer will have to move to a new office which is the used be six-grade building We've allocated I think 1.5 million dollars for that Well with inflation everything that's going to be a few more dollars then more dollars dollars to complete that task. And then next door to it is the evidence room as well. So things that we have started using the courthouse expansion, we're going to be coming to the same boat. So the point is, jump in on, part of what you mentioned, Mr. Harrison, does that. We're going to have some needs coming up quickly in the sun and we need to keep that in our mind and make sure that we're able to address those. Another, in those lines of question I have, this is probably something Paul is Steve Knatter. And looking at year-end audits and looking at final balance and once available, what we've committed, It looks like to me when I read the numbers it right now. It's about 47 million. We've committed 44 of that to pre-fund clean-up, but we're expecting to add to our fund balance with this next year as we finish the year. But do we have any idea what that? Top-pring When we got out of the town of Barson, Paul was spearheading that too. It was a painful year to the wild to get those monies back. The other downside of that sometimes is anyone knows it deals with the federal government, not meeting to sound critical, but sometimes it can, it can be quite challenging. She had to go through an appeal process at least on one of those projects that we use funds for, multiple hearings, I guess you say, for appeals. And it can be long. It could be quick. I see some Dodge signs out there, and I know that they have slowed down federal dollars because they're checking everything twice. Yeah. And so even as speedy as they were last year, they're not going to be quite as speedy next year for my assumption. And also a process that once we submit the reimbursements, then they still have to get federal funding to get the order as well. So it has to go through appropriations there before it goes through the reimbursement process. So it goes through several layers before it comes back. And I have spoke with commissioners in the counties down east that have been affected by hurricanes in the past. The movers sitting on nine years and haven't got reimbursed yet. I mean, they submitted everything right up to the point. So it may be a long time before this reimbursement actually comes to us. I hope it is a concern of mine. Yeah. So I'm going to ask the question. The good news is we fully expect to get a hundred percent reimbursed. The unknown is still going to continue may be when. When? Yeah. Well, we've never faced this before. I was in a mission to the print of mine. You see, we've had hurricane floods, earthquakes, everything. Well, that's six months. And, you know, our community has never faced what we're facing right now, and even our local governments. And, I don't say it's a trying time, but it's very challenging. Next is the work. Yeah. They have them in the mountains. Yeah. I think we're out of the next. Probably so. But commissioners, I think we're loud and clear to our team here of what we're looking for. I do know that members of this board speak to our staff or Mr. Garrison by phone almost every day and We'll continue to do that, but feel free for us to continue to help each other. I don't know I speak to most of you I'm okay. We can't tell them how to spend their funds that all we're trying to do is Give them what they keep requesting but at the same time Everybody needs a time to rebel You know, it's all good for another year. We're more than 100 years storm that we had. We're $36 million in the whole just from that stuff. People's tax values are going to be affected by this. Some people don't even have the same profit they have before. There's a lot of things playing into this. And we just ask everybody just to kind of think this year. Is there anything else from the Board of Commissioners at this time? I'd like to add something I think we need to look at as a priority as well, which is, I know they put it in their budget requests, but the Sheriff's Office pay increase percentage of the task port. Commissioner, hold for a second. This is at a hold. It was all. Yes, sir. I'm sorry. I mean, I'm just talking as a whole, as the Sheriff's Office as a whole. I mean, I think we really need to take a look and make it not look like we're telling them to take their pay increase out because as we know, for a city just increase their, I believe 11% and we talk a lot about retaining our employees and retaining our employees. It's going to be very hard to keep the ones we got. I know public service is very near and dear to most people in the county. They want to make sure that we have a public service that can provide what they need when they need them. So it's going to be very hard to keep people if we do not keep up with the times, especially with another agency in our county, going up 11%. Commissioner, appreciate your, I actually appreciate what you're saying there, because we're seeing very similar with the EMS and other public service. And that's one of the points that are, this team's like a look at, so we could work on our budget in order to maintain our level of service for our community. I will point out, and I'm sorry I don't have that in front of me right now. I seem to want back there, but you know, the sheriff's department actually came back last week. They did their original request and came back and say, hey, we know what you're facing. We know what you're doing. And it was like a red line and they started marking things off. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. I mean, sorry, I didn't mean to put that out there, but they actually came back and said. We know what you're doing and you know, it was like a red line and they started marking things off. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, I mean, sorry, I didn't mean to put that out there, but they actually came back and said, hey, with two chairman, we got that email from Tim Moore's office half a million dollar grant. It could be applied for, maybe help with the budget a little bit. Yes. Yes, with COPS grant, we got that information we received that and that was forwarded to to the chief and to the sheriff. And so we're eligible for that. All right, I I assume we're eligible for that. And so that would be great. It looks like it. So, I mean, there's a lot of mechanics happening behind the scenes. That being, that being secretive is just that it's communicating with each other of opportunities, so what can happen. And we just continue to do that as well. But thank you for your commentary. Commissioner, I didn't mean to interrupt you. What I'm getting at is the look from the public is that they're not getting it before it's ever, it's ever later. And I just want them to know that that's something we all are working on and looking at. Yes. Thank you. Serving the court. Commissioners look for a bunch. That's something we all work in on and looking at. Thank you. Is there anything else you would report this time? Commissioners, look for a bunch of journalists. I might... Second. We have a motion to second any discussion? We're going to call a question. All the figures raise your right hand. We need both of us. We are now adjourned.