All right, I'd like to call this meeting to order. Good evening, everyone. Thanks for being here. I'd like to officially call this special meeting of April 23rd, 2025, as the Village Council to order and extend a warm welcome to all who've robbed. Please rise if able for the Pledge of Allegiance. A pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, One Nation. Gunner. a pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, the purpose of tonight's meeting is to discuss legislation recently introducing to Raleigh that we believe will have a significant negative impact on our village, county, and state. These bills are a critical issue that demands our careful attention and collective voice. We appreciate your engagement and commitment as we work together to help our representatives understand the consequences of this harmful legislation and allow local towns to determine the most appropriate course of action to protect their communities. The night there's only one item on this special meeting and nothing else can or will be discussed that does not concern the topic. And at this point I would like to turn the meeting over to Councilman Mike Combis for our presentation. Please, Mike. Thanks, sir. Mike, talking. If it's okay, I'll brief him over here. Oh, is that a big one? First of all, thanks everyone for coming. This is obviously a special call meeting because it's a critical issue. We're hoping to address and get everyone's support to just as the mayor said get this legislation stopped. My purpose to see, well I'll just get right into it. What I'd ask is that I just go through this presentation. There's 31 slides, it takes about 10, 11 minutes. And then at the after that, we'll open for questions and, you know, chew it to death. Let's see. Changed the word from harmful to ruinous. The more I read about this legislation and study it, the more clear it becomes that if this legislation passes, it will and this will sound a bit hyperbolic fundamentally change Clemens as we know it today. Clemens we need to. This is the issue in the challenge. There are five bills. I'm just focusing on five, the most impactful ones. I guarantee there are others out there that are advancing our challenges to prevent them from becoming law. you see down is the left and this is just one person's assessment based on some analysis of the degree of harm they will do to our community and to other communities like us. Ten is obviously the worst. This is the purpose, make a compelling case for action. Our ultimate objective is like to say is to stop them. Our immediate objective is to energize all of us to engage those that have the authority to make the decision whether these bills go forward or they get stopped. The method is to show four major things and we'll start at the top. Start with just a brief introduction, quick analysis of the impact, one aspect of the impact of this legislation happens. And then we'll, as you can see, do a semi-quick analysis that doesn't even need to be addressed in the first place. Now this is a key element of the proposed bill, the most harmful bill, 765. And if you'll notice, it says, and it requires that every bill that is introduced, that proposes any change in the law that could cause a net increase or decrease in the cost of housing, be accompanied by an official assessment by the physical research division. Unfortunately, this bill doesn't meet that requirement. It didn't come with any assessment. So what you're going to see tonight is one person's attempt to make an objective assessment. I would offer to you that in communicating with our legislators it might be useful to say say hey where's the assessment that you require from not only the state legislature in the future, but every county and every municipality in any law that's passed or ordinance that's passed that can impact the cost of owning or operating the house. So again, what the facts and figures you'll see tonight are not those from the physical division. They're from one person on the council who's making the best effort and I think but I'm convinced they're pretty accurate. Here's the current situation. 160D is the law of North Carolina that says how or what we are required to do is municipalities to regulate and facilitate land usage and planning, and we're required by law to do those eight things. And we're all common sense, pretty expansive, and we're required to accomplish those things by the way that we in our community regulate and manage land use and zoning. And the regulations shall be made in consideration of character, et cetera. If one does an examination of these five laws, I'll offer to you that objective analysis says it makes our ability to do every one of those much more difficult. In some cases, I will contend nigh impossible. And that's obviously not the intent of the legislation, but that's the impact. This is just some key elements of, and I'm focusing on HB765, because that is the most harmful one. Again, it's got four Senate bill companions, and those red things are stop signs, just highlighting the most harmful impacts, like adds a significant burden every time that we look at devising an ordinance or passing some law or not a law or some provision that impacts could impact on and selling operating a house. We have to do a physical analysis. Obviously your staff found this item so we're going to pay for that. Now it's going to be a cost burden. Look at the second one. Local government has opened up to lawsuits. If that's a gold mine. And you're going to see that lawsuit threat throughout the law. And you'll find when you go through this law, not only the person who applied for any association affiliated with that person can follow loss that under the hat, they have standing. Landing and development is removed. Conflict of interest, this is interesting. Just take a look at that for a second. Somebody has any impact. A council member or a member of the planning board or other board that makes decisions regarding zoning, housing, construction, that has any unreported discussion with anyone about it is disqualified. That means if you call Michelle, me, and say, and we don't formally report it, we can't participate. You can't call and make a recommendation on this or that or express preference and that not get reported without that being a violation of this law. Local governments can no longer regulate parking space size, except so, and I'm going to show you some housing impacts, and you can't require, as just one example, so where's everyone going to park? You know, park on the street. This is critical. Right now we zone. We have a typical zoning pattern. This law passes every acre that is zone residential is authorized at a minimum or by right five dwellings per acre. That's going to increase our density about two and a half times. And it goes on and on. That's a techo term. Look at the first two. It makes board members and council members liable, monetarily, pecuniarily liable for making, I guess, disagreed with decisions. I'll put it in that broad group with the challengeable decisions. Now imagine the impact that has on folks being willing to volunteer to serve on planning boards, but to volunteer to run for an office. It has a, I've seen some things calling the chilling effect, but it's much more chilling than that. So anyway, so what happens to clemons if this bill passes? We're authorized five dwellings per acre, and then you combine that with a Senate bill, which says, oh, by the way, you're authorized a sixplex anywhere in a residential area of clemons of a town our size. Well, here's what happens. Density more than doubles. And you can see here taxes, bad things happen. I'm going to just concentrate on one of these, so we'll go through this. Clemens residential density will double. Right now, if you go through GL Data Explorer, you can see every lot in Clemens. And if you do that, you'll discover, it's from pretty basic grocery store analysis. We're about 2.1 houses per acre in our residential zones. We're about half acre logs. So a house bill 765 says you've got a minimum of 5 houses per acre that you're allowed. So your density more than double. So you go from 2.2 to 5 houses per acre. Well, okay, so what? That's what that looks like. This is today. That's when these bills pass. Well, if you go, there's a thing called the traffic engineers and they do how many trips per day. This is our favorite intersection in Clemens right here, Middlebrook in 158. Today, these four roads, if you just, there's a thing called AADT and it comes from NCDOT and they count, as you would expect. And they do an average annual daily traffic count. And this intersection in a typical day 56,500 vehicles rolled through there and we all know that. This bill passes and we go to five houses per acre minimum and obviously the proponents of this bill aspire to five houses per acre or they wouldn't have put it in there. As a minimum the traffic count at this intersection goes to 124,800 vehicles a day. And though by the way, if you go through all the legislation so far this year, there's not one dime that says we are going to accompany the mandates for this increased density, we're going to accommodate that within, here's your money to fix your roads in advance. So we will essentially double the amount of demand placed on our infrastructure with no funds to redress that demand. I've just concentrated on traffic here, it's the same before, it's anything happens in schools, it happens in public safety, it happens in, it happens in, in its constant. So, density generated demand, the numbers are too clear to be misunderstood, will greatly outstrip our current infrastructure and its ability to grow. And I will offer anybody, please find me, the legislation that says, here's the accompanying funding to expand your legislation. So having said that, I'm going to quickly run through. Why is this legislation passed in the first place? Will it propose in the first place? It is proposed under the contention that we have a, I'm going to say, desperate housing affordability and availability problem. I will tell you that this, I think the evidence is clear that it's simply not factually correct. In fact, I will offer to you that this, this, this dynamic has a term it's called preemptive legislation for states, preempt local, that the states that have engaged in preemptive legislation in the attempt to control housing affordability and to broaden housing availability have accomplished exactly the opposite. And housing affordability has gone way down, price has gone way up and availability has decreased. This slide here shows median cost of a home by state for the last 22 years. Every state in the union. And you can see that at the top states like Hawaii, California, they get here and all of a sudden they go, this is North Carolina, we are smack dab in the middle, we are the national average for all intents and purposes. Now I'll tell you that you got to take this graph with a grain of salt because it came off of Wikipedia, the first rule of Google is never trust Wikipedia, and also never trust consolidated data. Go look at it yourself. So that claim let's test it. Again, states that past preemption laws cause greater housing inflation. Evidence and analysis show, and I'm going to walk through this, that land use zoning preemption actually worsens housing inflation, and reduces housing availability. Let's test it state by state. The three big ones that we showed that had the biggest rise on it curve, This is Massachusetts and they passed law 40B in 1969 if you call a slide that's where it kind of started going up and the intent was to provide relief for housing availability shortage and provide relief from escalating prices. Since they They passed that law, the inflation rate for Massachusetts has been 197 percent of North Carolina. We haven't passed one, they did. Well, let's test somebody on the West Coast. This is California. Same dynamic. This is their quote. Their housing inflation is 154% greater than North Carolina. Well, let's try Hawaii. Totally different. We're going to say randomly chose. They passed also. This is their 2006. They passed the same statutes for states over road municipalities ability to regulate because we needed a state leveled and controlled land use and regulation. Their housing inflation is 150 percent greater. Again, the common denominator with all of these, and if you go slide by slide, and oh, by the way, let me try this. This is not commercial data, this is from the Federal Reserve, Economic Division in St. Louis. So, the Federal Reserve, these are unbiased. There's a Thor Tape as you can get. I keep messing this up. Now he'd keep hitting the wrong button. So evidence is clear. Preemptive legislation that restricts, and in some cases, eliminates local ability to tailor its land use regulations and planning authority worsens the problem. Great. Now, if we actually had the problem that the proponents of this legislation and the sponsors of this legislation say we ought to be wildly off the charts because we're the fifth fastest going state in the nation. But we're 27th in housing price inflation. Those two don't add up. They don't correlate. So let's ask the question, what are the commercial guys saying? That's great government data, but what are our people that deal with selling and making houses available to say, this is the national association of realtors. And they have, on their website, you go look it up. It's a great site. It's called a housing shortage tracker. And they do it across the states and you can expand. Here's the state of North Carolina, and they looked at and they include nine major metropolitan areas in the state, and they just asked the question, is there insufficient or sufficient housing for the population that's there now in the incoming population, and they define incoming population requirements as to are there positions available for jobs that are going to open. For single family dwellings, the National Association of Realtors who have a vested interest in ensuring that there is in fact the right amount, eight of the nine for single family dwellings have sufficient housing available. One area, Durham Chapel Hill, is declared insufficient. Well, that's great about, if you're talking about single-hub, what about workers that need rentals and stuff like that? Well, the National Realtors Association combines them and they have a category called total dwellings. Single-familyings, plus multifamily dwellings, plus rental apartments. And when you include all of those, every major metropolitan in the area in the state has adequate housing. Where's the urgency? Where's the issue? Where's the shortage that not only allows, but mandates overriding, in some cases, eliminating local authority. It's not there. It just simply doesn't exist. And though, by the way, if we have such a tight shortage, and we have greater demand, then we have availability, our housing inflation ought to be off the charge. 2023, the last set of figures I could find, home price increase was less than the third of general inflation in the state of North Carolina. This is a manufactured crisis. Now, why do we keep growing and in a way that keeps us actually under general inflation? In 2019, six years ago, we actually had a really bad scramble of housing regulations and laws, and the North Carolina legislature got together and they passed this thing called 160D. They took all of the housing stuff and consolidated, and I gotta tell you, it's wonderful. It is as effective and as good as you can get, and you've seen the results. And that's what 160D did. This is from University of North Carolina. We've got six years of experience using this state law and we've seen the results. My point of that is we have the right answer. It was carefully crafted. It's been used. It's been refined, and it's the right answer. Another thing that is critical to know is this state legislation, which mandates a state solution for every community, doesn't acknowledge or account for or accommodate unique regional or local housing situations. This is from 2020 and the numbers are roughly the same. I couldn't find a more current one. We actually have population decreases in some counties. We have minor population increases in others and we have major population increases in others. Now, do you get this? Will you get these different housing demands and at the same time create an environment where everybody's moving to North Carolina but our housing inflation rate is right smack in the middle of the nation because 160D allows municipalities and counties to tailor their housing and planning requirements to their needs, to the local needs. And we've seen, if the numbers are too clarity misunderstood, states that override that ability actually cause worsening housing inflation and reduced availability. This is a recommended action. By the way, all these slides are available to you. My recommendation is contact our representatives in the house and the senate and let them know that this is not acceptable. They will cause our properties to lose value. They will cause our quality of life to lose value. They will cause, they will cause, they will cause. And I would offer to you, opposing is more than just allowing somebody to vote no. I don't know if you know, there's a bait and switch that happens fairly frequently where folks will sponsor a piece of legislation or champion it and get the ball rolling and then a community will say we're against that and once the inevitable has happened there's so much momentum built they will vote against it. Knowing safely that it's going to pass that kind of We can't't tolerate it or we can't do that and allow and expect a different outcome. The folks that are championing this, I think, have to be communicated with it. This requires active and forceful opposition, withdraw it if you're with draw your sponsorship. What's next? Do I think I'm turning it back to you? Yes, I'll be fine. Thank you, Council Member of Commerce. That was very good. We're going to move into a question and answer session. If you have some questions, you'll be able to ask them. The questions have to pertain to the presentation, the North Carolina General Assembly proposed bill opposition, as presented as media, as this is a call of four special meetings for a specific item. We can't get new leads on other items. All right. Now we'll call on those who raise their hand. You'll be asked to approach podium and state your name and address for the record and ask one question so the others may have an opportunity to participate. If you have additional questions, Mr. Combus will be available for questions after we adjourn. So does anyone have questions? If there's not enough questions, I'll allow you four people to ask more than one. Come up to vote, please. Where does our representative stand on this bill as of now? Are they have they weighed in? Are they for it or against it? They actually, uh, for it to actually file the bill. They're the sponsors of it. So they're the ones who brought it forward. Okay. And so when we email them and tell them our feelings on it, do we email them? Do we call them and do we do all, every, what, we do at all. Yes, I know. Yes, everything Yes, what would you name please miss can you say their name and address my name is I'm a genie angle my address is 44 95 Greenfield Way Drive Winsden Salem, 2-7-103. Thank you. And the introducing sponsor... Winsland Salem 27103. Thank you. And the introducing sponsor was his representative, Zena. They're currently now 22 sponsors, 21 folks from both parties have joined. to reiterate, it's not just to ask them to vote against it, it's to ask them to withdraw it. It's to ask them to withdraw it. That's key. Because I'll say, oh, yeah, yeah. I'll vote against it while there's still the ring leaders and the sponsors of it. Withdrawing it is what kills it. And they have the power to do that. Yes and there's 22 as he said sponsors co-sponsors of this bill there's 13 Republicans and 9 Democrats. Yes ma'am. Hi my name is Amy Taylor North. You need my address. It is 84, 80, Lismore Street here in Clemens. So you've talked to us about this proposed bill, taking authority away from local elected officials and municipalities. Can you tell us where the power will end up? Can you explain to us who then will be making these decisions? Yes, ma'am. Basically, the decisions, the planning decisions we made at the state level, that's these These bills are essentially instructing iron-clad, no flexibility instructions that you will allow this type of dwelling, this number of dwellings in these locations. You will not regulate parking locations. So essentially, local planning, authority, and decision-making elevates to the state level. And does any power or more control go to local land developers? It depends on how persuasive they are at the state level. What it does is if you're in this business, it allows you to focus all your efforts on a smaller number of decision makers. Well, I'll give an example. Can we go to go to the backup? Can you raise the backup slides? And I'll send all these to you if you want. I'll show you some backup slides that may be useful. That's a compass. These will be on our website after they're cleaned up and organized. So you'll be able to access them on Cleanas.org. Can you go, can you do what is it slide number? Keep going. That one. This is the Legislative Director basically in lobbyists for the North Carolina Home Builders Association and this is a quote from his video, we introduced House Bill 765. These are the most sweeping land use changes the state has seen. Any other questions? Please. Your Stone Russ 6725, Bramble Bush Court in Clemens. So I see Zinger and I see Dana Jones on there. What about Kyle Hall, Danny Lambeth, Kanika Brown, Amber Baker, our other representatives in Paulo, our other senator? Or we concentrate on these two? Man, my first one's good to see you again. I would, numbers count, I would do both. Okay. My immediate reaction is it can't hurt to engage others because we may no longer strictly be because of the, you know, change, but we know people who live there. And our neighbors who happen to live there can be influenced and, oh, by the way, representative Smith Smith or whatever that I don't live in your district but my close friends do and I'm talking to them if I answered the question. You did am I allowed to ask one more? I didn't see a whole lot of folks rushing up so since I didn't know if we'd have a 30 or 40 to ask questions and we run our town. I'll be sure. Oh, go right there. So if I sell my house, what are my responsibilities according to this new law? It says all house sales have to be reported. Oh, no, no, no. I obviously misspoke. If we're going to pass an ordinance that can impact in some way, housing maintenance, sales, the cost of it, and have a conversation with anyone that's not immediate, it's called X Part A, that is just, we have to report that. no matter if we're just, if we happen to pass each other and hear us. is just we have to report that. Okay. No battery, if we're just, it occurs if we happen to pass each other and Harris teed, to say how you'd you hear about that, and that doesn't get reported, that invalidates. It's an X part A communication that hasn't been reported. Okay, thank you. Please. My name is Dan Engle and I live at 4495. You're in fieldway drive, which is Salem 27103. I'm actually in Clemens I get Clemens services but according to my zip code I'm a living in Winston Salem so is that how does that affect us? That's a federal thing that we can't correct on our level. You're a Clemens resident if you receive Cle, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good or am I out base here? No, sir, we're a Dylan state. You know, you have home rule states where the cities get that authority and we're not a home rule state. Okay. All right. All of our authority is granted. Well, like I know, you said you took everything. All of our authority has to be expressly or at least very heavily implicitly granted by the legislature. Thank you. Those who can give can take a while. Come forward, please. up car Bob Carr, 1910 Dunmore Lane. Is Mr. Zinger here? No. That's convenient. No. So he can't answer my question. If Republicans are generally known for favoring local control, what is this steel all about? Now y'all can't answer me, but it seems like all my life conservative politics has been about local control. And this is an authoritarian grab, isn't it? And I'm seeing you nod. All of us know it. One last, we've all watched the news, and we've seen angry people at hall meetings, especially when a representative does not show up. Can't get your questions answered. And we've seen the anger spill out into the streets in a hands-off policy, or program, or movement. And I'm thinking right now, we should be organizing throughout the state, the General Assembly, hands-off local government. Patitions are nice, these things are nice, and hopefully there's some media coverage. But unless we get the people out and seeing and their anger experienced, not sure this is going to get me far. So I'm wondering to the powers that be, what's the chance of having a hands-off march here? And I'm looking at law enforcement also. So countywide there's opposition to this the North Carolina Association of County Commissioners have sent a strongly worded message to the sponsors of these bills. They do not support them. Neither does the chairman of the County Commissioner Scott Martin. I've been in contact with him, and he's wanted to send me that information. So, to this statewide, there's a lot of opposition to this. And I have a good feeling, but it will be, go to the down or not even move through the house but we still that we've got to do a full court press throughout the state throughout the county throughout the municipalities don't let up call your representatives there's a whole list of them go online call if you have a cell phone that does a constant thing call I realize y'all are in a position where you cannot probably organize anything, but there folks out here who may be interested in getting together and organizing something and working with you guys to make our voices known. Thank you so much. I appreciate the time. Thank you for telling me. Any other questions? Sir, can I just get a hold second? I wouldn't discount, and the March and stuff, that numbers count, not just the numbers at an event, but the number of ways a person is engaged counts as well as the number of engagements, by phone, by text, by email, by, by, and of course the broader and the deeper the engagement, the more powerful and you know, louder the message. And I think it, unless we can accurately, or convincingly convey that this bill is poison, political poison, and it's radioactive and hand-lit, we'll just prove catastrophically bad for anybody champions it. That's the only way we'll do it. One word's not a message, it's you know that old adage. Blah blah blah blah. Yes, sir. Come forward, please. Hello. Tim Rahill, 1751 Harper Spring Drive Air in Clemens. I have two quick questions. One, do we know the time frame of how much time we have before they vote on this? I think crossover is seventh of May. It's in May, yes. In May, so short amount of time. Second question for you, if it's okay to ask it. Cool, we'll go ahead and see. Yeah, I'll be really brief. So in the past, you know, when I've been involved in, you know, helping, you know, pose bills or important legislation, there's been two things that have been really helpful in my personal belief. One is if there's like a unified language, it's a lot easier to, if you're speaking to a representative to have something that you can pull talking points from. I know using the documents you provided tonight, I think that might be helpful. But if there is, you know, a unified language that we can all, you know, just oppose and it'll show unity with people saying similar comments. Maybe not, imagine this. But at the same time, creating a strong argument that can carry through all the way. It'll prevent them from being able to back down if there's specific talking points you can use. And also, and you had a great point earlier about involving in the local community, but I've found a lot of success showing up to Raleigh where they're at. There's no way they can run. You know, you can be in the chamber, you can make your voice heard, and they'll have to answer to you or scurry away. So it's a bad look for them either way. Thank you. Thank you. Also, next week, North Carolina League of Minists, thealities will be holding city vision in Greenville, North Carolina. I'll be there on Tuesday, and I will make a presentation to the Mayor's Association of North Carolina concerning these bills that have been introduced and the damage that they're going to cause throughout the state. Not just one community, but everybody. We're all going to feel the pain. Yes sir. Mayor Wayne. John Wait 6310 Arms to Be Road Clements I just want to say thanks for having this meeting. I appreciate the transparency that this council has been dedicated to. Certainly the entire time that I've been involved with it certainly now. Bringing these sorts of things to the community's attention is really important. It actually reminds me a lot of the founding of this town. When somebody wanted to tell us how to do sewer back in the mid 80s. And we said we said forget you we will create our own town. And so to me there's always been the individuality about this town and about a lot of the different things that occur here. And if it's okay Mr. Mayor I would like to actually ask a question and answer it myself. So that's okay I'm going to do that. And it really gets to sort of with Mr. Ringel brought up and the question is why? Like, why? What is the point? Like why? Everything is moving fine. So what is the point? The point is power. And if you really want to get at that, then there's something that hasn't come up yet that needs to be on everybody's radar. It's something that I am more involved in now in other aspects now that I'm not having to run council meetings every two weeks. But it's gerrymandering. There's a reason why we have statewide, democratically elected leaders, but then we have very close to a super majority for the General Assembly and the Republican Party. I'm not saying that you don't have to be entrenched in one party or another to understand that when one party is too entrenched or has too much power, then they're not going to represent the whole And so, if you're not paying attention to the latest Supreme Court race, you need to be, because that will be critical. If there's gonna be any movement to end during Mandarin in this state, then that race is very important. And so if you're not involved in that, that's not on your radar, and you're not talking to people about thing You should be. But what I would encourage everybody in this room. I don't care what part of your end Or if you're an independent whatever The most important thing is accountability and if you're not holding your own people accountable Then this is the sort of stuff that happens and sometimes it takes something really jarring and And here's the thing. We can see this presentation. It's excellently done. As usual, thank you for that. But the impacts of this are going to be massive. And I don't even want to know something that happened when I was here was just the General Assembly restricting of local municipal power over a stored onewater. I don't even know what that's done to you guys over the last couple of years. But there are parts of this town where stormwater is a massive issue. You've already lost that. Then you want to compound this on top of that. Not to mention the fact that nobody in here wants to talk about climate traffic. Or maybe you all do, you know, depending on how you feel about it. But, you know, we have these issues and you have, you have to understand that the issue is actually massively bigger than what Councilman Compass is talking about when you think about Clemens not as a town, as a community, because the ability to expand the city limits that was ended years ago. So now the municipality has to deal with a funding budget at what say, you know, for 26,000 people. Meanwhile, you all drive right near town and outside the limits. You know good and well the actual actual size of the town as far as the stress and the infrastructure is three, four times that long. Now you add the density problem. So these are not small things. These are not just like, you know, things that don't have some kind of real impact they just do. Anyway, thank you for indulging me and appreciate it. You guys are service. I'm glad I didn't have to break up and he fights or anything this evening. So thank you all for being here and for keeping it very simple. Thank you. All right, any other questions? Berk, can I make a? Sure. I want to make a petition if I can. First of all, what John says about it, if we don't act, then all of this is interesting, but doesn't matter a hill of beans. It's the action that counts and it's the engagement that counts. All of this is interesting but not relevant without action. The second part is, it will make it available. I'm free to answer questions anytime, anywhere. Like I say, my number is public and you get hold of me. I would ask one thing and it's before we go statewide. Grab a hold of this and be as skeptical and as cynical as you can and find all the inaccuracies and the works that you can. Because that will immunize us, because I guarantee you the opponents of this will find every work, every flaw and will use that. So if you've got the time to look at it and you can find the illogic or the numbers don't add up or this is bogus or this is horse manure, it's better us find it and fix it than others. Very well said. Couldn't say better myself. Thank you, Councilman Convuss. What's the key in any other questions? And if Councilman Convuss will be available after we adjourn, as well as the other council members, we will not be able to be more than two together so we don't up with meeting laws if you have some questions individually as we wander out to the lobby or outside what have you just now again my name is I'm a gene angle do you have a script or is the could you provide a script that I can take back to my homeowner's association so I can go to my neighbors and say if you would, this is what's going on and if you want to contact your legislators, Jones and Zinger. This would be what you would want to put in your email, or your letter, or say, like a script, if they answer the phone, or would you give them a message? We'll put that on the website tomorrow. With all the information you need, it's Clements.org. It's clements.org. That's correct. Okay. All right. We'll also... Any other questions? All right. Hearing none, I entertain the motion to adjourn. I'm going to adjourn. Have a second. Second. All the way over. All right. All the way over. All right, we're adjourned. And thank you all for coming tonight.