I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm sorry. So typically you have to address. Did you write in a note to us? Because I read all the notes. Did you get it? Because I was going to be here in person. OK. OK. So I thought that would be. It's just it's part of the Brown Act. We're just not allowed to let people. It's not. I would let you if it was just me, but I'm so sorry. OK. So you can just say whatever, like thanks. OK. You know. All right, thank you. Yeah. Okay. Okay, any other public open time? Okay, do we have any right in email? All right, so let's go on to the consent calendar. The following items listed on the consent calendar to be considered routine in our approved by a single motion without discussion, the chair or any member of the commission or the public may request that any item listed under the consent calendar be removed and action taken separately in the event that an item is removed from the consent calendar. It shall be considered in its numerical order. Do I have a motion to approve? Move to approve the consent calendar. Second. All in favor? So moved. All right, let's move on to Recreation and Department of Public Works reports, the Parks and Rec Commission priority projects updates. Can I just ask a quick question? Is there any way or is it too late to possibly adjust the order in which new business is addressed? Could we move seven to up or does it have to, is it lots of ways? Typically we do that during the approval of the agenda order. Okay. So we want to move on to DPW. I'll start with the well park master plan. So if we're going over the priority projects, just your recap because we will be talking about it later. The working groups formed during the 2023 term that monthly to develop the intent and scope of the project and an RFP for consulting services and four proposals were received and the plan is to award tonight. Hopefully our award on the 17th of September assuming that the commission hears and is willing to recommend the consultant company based on the report that I'll share later tonight. The next project is the Development and Replegra and Replacement Plan. Excuse me, DPW has a Management Alignant Analyst. Now that's been hired, that is helping our park supervisor develop the playground replacement plan and the information will include your construction, any renovations that have done elements of play and also part numbers so that if there is any problem with one of the parts it can be quickly and easily replaced. I'll evaluate, and that's it for the playground replacement plan. I'll evaluate potential Miller Grove improvements. I met with Commissioner Jones last week to review some ideas for that. And we are going to be getting in touch. Commissioner Jones is going to be getting in touch with the relocation brigade to follow up on that suggestion with DPW support. Reviewing the Bayfront Master Plan that is also a work in progress. In the coming meetings, I hope to bring a few suggested edits to the Bayfront Master Plan that will require public hearing and also hearings of the City Council level and then potentially next year for sort of larger, maybe a larger amendment to it. And then the golf clubhouse has not begun, although those ADA improvements are still in design and also the beautification, excuse me, rotary as well as the golf club, master gardeners and other members of the community are starting to plan improvements to the landscaping of the patios in fall of this year. Great. Do we have any more to the updates? Mark? Do we have any public comment on this agenda item? Anything emailed in? Any commission questions? All right. Let's move on to the DEI update. Excuse me. One from the Arts and Recreation Department on behalf of actually the City Administrative Department. Staff are preparing for the mail of all the stands against United against hate week later this month. The Administrative Department team took the lead to request the arts commission support to one, unwrap one portion of the art boxes at commuter alto and e-spoilthale with the message mill valley stands united against hate and image as well as have an arts commissioner representative on the selection committee and that art contest will be described and kind of unveiled and announced during the reception event hosted at the community center on Wednesday, September 25th, which is open to the public Wednesday, September 25th. And that's it for the DI update. Okay, excellent. Any public comment on that? Okay. Any commissioner questions? All right, let's move on to new business. As a reminder we're skipping number four and moving on to number five which is a consider recommendation to City Council to award a professional services agreement for the Boyle Park Master Plan project. And again to follow up on the priority project updates this is a project that's been started in 2023 and it's come through fruition through our stakeholder group that can be seen as an advisory body worth representation of our vice chair, Keirney and Commissioner Gray have also been serving on this as well as representatives of our current Utila user groups of the Boyle Park as well as residents nearby and Utila users of the playground, open space area, grass area, and the restrooms. And just to kind of recap what our timeline was, we did release the RFP on June 18th. We had questions received. We created a couple of amendments that were proposed. The proposals were finally due on July 19th. We had interviews the week of July 29th and then we are at the point where we are coming with a recommendation from our working group for the commission's consideration to recommend City Council approve the City Manager to authorize a professional services agreement. And the company that is being recommended is RHAA. That is a local company out of Mill Valley. It's also a company that has a long time relationship with the city and the oil parks specifically. We do have Barbara, who is one of the principals represented today. So if you have any questions, you can ask her. We'll put you around the spot. They have, this firm has performed the master plan for the first and second master planning of Boyle Park so this would be the third time around which is kind of a nice trilogy. The next steps again is for this commission to review. They consider making a recommendation to City Council that we authorize a professional services agreement. Do you have any questions? I don't do the commissioners that worked really close on this one out. Yeah, I just want to make a comment. It was a very good process. We had great involvement in terms of the working group from all facets of the user group. Interesting Boil Park. We all care so much about Boil Park. It's such a gem. So we really want to get this right. We received four strong proposals. I do think RHAA really stood out for a number of reasons. I thought their values aligned with ours. I thought their experience was tremendous, not just with the Boyle Park in the past, but the projects that RHA has done in other areas that were in other places as well. So from my perspective, I was really pleased with the recommendation that we're making and I would strongly support. I agree with Chris's comments. The process was very thorough. We had great participation from a pretty wide swath of user groups of the park. And the RHA, a proposal was the strongest one in my opinion. And I'm very excited to move forward with this project. Congrats, I'm really excited and I'm so proud of both of you. You both like worked so so hard on wrangling everybody and keeping it moving forward and taking direction from the commission. I'm working with all the stakeholders and you did a really excellent job. Thank you but the stakeholders were very interested and very involved and didn't take a whole lot of wrangling because everyone really wants to see this done right and it's a great time to be doing it. So I think there's great excitement within the working group, within the community, and we all look forward to moving ahead with this. Yeah, and it's obviously kind of just the beginning. So, okay, excellent. Do we have any public comment on this item? Any written public comment? Do we have any questions from the commission? Of staff or Barbara? Or Barbara, yeah? I'm excited that this was the recommended, because I looked at all the other ones, and they were fine, but it's really great. So, I'm ready to go. So, I'm happy to move to approve this to go to council for consideration. Do I have a second? A second of motion. All in favor? Hi. So moved. So we'll prove this to go to council for consideration. Do I have a second? A second of motion. All in favor? Bye. So moved. All right, let us move on to the consideration of the plaza planter design. So we got the screen working. That's great. So consideration of plaza planter designs for use in the plaza areas and minor changes to gravity car. Go ahead. So this is also an update to the deep of plaza expansion phase four. Construction is starting next Wednesday or plan to start next Wednesday and it should continue through October 11th. I am Mark Newman, Deputy Director of Operations and Utilities for the Department of Public Works. Today we'll go through a background on the project, the current status of the project, and then review some plan to design options, potential suggestions to gravity car renovations and relocation as well as some options we have to sort of improve the safety of the gravity car that we're looking for feedback from the community on, then staff recommendations and a time for questions. So background is phase four of the expansion project. Starts next week. The area that was close to traffic and filled with DG will be being made brick. The driveway will be made more accessible for vehicles to prevent the bottoming out that occasionally occurs on low vehicles and the bus stop will be made ADA accessible. Bids came in well under budget, which gives the department some flexibility to do some other priorities that we had looked at in the area. Last time we came, there was a discussion of potentially having a planting strip along the new edge of the roadway that was suggested, that was declined by the commission for the need of ongoing maintenance. The Dedication Brigade, which is a group within this supported by staff and volunteers to kind of organize volunteering amongst the city to beautify the city lands. They have volunteered to provide regular maintenance of the planters and we can provide irrigation through existing irrigation services. So right now staff is recommending that we have above ground planters installed as the ingram planters tend to get kicked. Plants trampled. The above ground planters are much easier on maintenance. And so we'd like some input on what sort of planters to use for that. And then the gravity car needs, regularly needs routine maintenance. And the last time that was done was in 2017, and it is showing signs of wear and tear. Planted design options. The beautification brigade brought forward two ideas. One was a redwood boxes, potentially with a liner. These can be the pros of these or that they could be constructed from repurpose redwoods from Mill Valley Volunteers could do this potentially staff could do this or contractors could do this We'll you know we can determine that. I don't think those details are relevant here These would resist the heat radiation caused by being placed on the brick plaza that area of the plaza is constantly exposed to sun and Surfaces can get quite hot placed on the brick plaza, that area of the plaza is constantly exposed to sun and surfaces can get quite hot. And it arguably would match the aesthetic of the natural surroundings. That area surrounded by redwoods. If we were to use redwood, that seems to be a match to that. The con is it would be a new planter design to the area. There aren't redwood planters or there aren't redwood planters anywhere else in that area. Another suggestion has been core 10 steel planter boxes. These match the existing planter designs that equate a coffee that are in from an equate a coffee. The con is that it would be sort of the opposite. It would capture heat when placed on the brick planter. Possible redwood planter designs, anything from, we're not talking anything extremely or a nate, but we could have something more like this down here or something just very simple. Two by six is supported with some four by4 posts inside. Often, this is what the Quartan steel looks like. This on the left here is what it looks like when it's delivered. They are coated to rust quickly and to oxidize quickly, excuse me. And then they'll sort of stabilize in this oxidized look for many years. This is from a quater coffee. So that is the those are sort of the options for plant designs. Gravity car renovations. The work on this is to repair stems supporting the seeds that split here in this photo in the upper right hand corner. You can see quite a bad split, you know, half an inch or three quarters of an inch where it split out. The idea is to put a poxie to reattach those and then pre-drill and screw those stems together to provide a more lasting fix. And then perhaps down here where this red box is to provide a flocking behind that, to be determined when it is offsite and being worked on. And then also, as you'll see in this video, several little laggolds that secure these benches to the deck have failed slightly. So refilling those holes and then reattaching and using wood glue when it's constructed to secure it. And then also using a thread locker lock tie on these tension bars. And then repaint the whole thing in the existing color, no change to color proposed. Additionally, we are proposing to relocate the gravity car. The extended plaza area, so this is now a plan view. The proposed planters along the edge of the roadway will provide both a visual and physical block to vehicles and potentially put us to a certain point, a great amount of attention from keeping them from walking down the street. We are proposing to relocate the gravity car from approximately here between the free well and the standard redwoods down to roughly the center of the new expanded plaza. We are aware of the idea that was presented to this commission at the shadow box. If the ad alternates that idea, we will coordinate with that group to just make sure that we are not placing the car on top of that proposal location. What was that last point? The shadow box that was proposed to the commission a few months ago, we're, I'll just, I'll coordinate with that group to make sure that we're not in conflict with it. Yeah, can you actually talk more about that? Do you have the, yeah, is that what you're going to ask? It's about the position of the shadow box. Yeah, for you to refresh my recollection as to what that proposal was briefly. Yeah, so yeah. So that ad alternate went through and it's sort of in, funding for that group. But the idea was basically that during the reconstruction they exposed some rails for the original depot that went out to Larkspur and to you know the idea is eventually to propose to this commission and to City Council to dig down and create a shadow box exposing those rails. However, at this point, it is merely at alternate to make sure that the work does not have to be redone. It is just sort of laying the groundwork. No visual impact to that project. No changes proposed to the depot. It is merely just infrastructure for a potential project later on. And just to clarify, the shadow box, it's completely flat with the ground. So you would just walk over it and look down and see the exposed rails. Point of this is that we won't, we won't, we're not going to get in the way of that. Right, but do you know approximately where the rails are? The reason for not putting it on here is that I don't recall and I don't think it was even quite formalized but it's approximately in here Given the planters will be obscuring the view of the gravity car staff recommends to reorient the car to face the front of the plaza The the facing of the car as it exists does face traffic that is an intentional sort of book-indeed to it. We are sort of proposing to swap it around and the car will be removed from the site during the construction process so that there will not have to be a separate relocation process. I'm having a really hard time orienting myself to all the positions. Can you just tell me like? Because this is obviously not the whole plaza. It's just part of it So is the depot like the the depot cafe is that on like the far end there? At the top of this so here you have it. So the existing location of the gravity car This red box that that that is the existing end So currently when you're down there and There's the new metal fence. Yes And because there's a stretch of that metal fence that's brand new I think it was a repair from an accident and then it looks like there was additions added Was there additional metal fence added, steel fence? Yeah, that was all done at the same time and the repair has happened subsequently. Okay, because there was some discussion that we couldn't afford steel fence, but that was not part of that discussion. No, so the steel fence, that was subsequently, when we came here in March, we resolved to put the fence to this location. Okay. It sounds like the steel situation wasn't a big deal. I remember there was some discussion about how it might be too expensive, so we wouldn't do it. It sounds like it ended up being fine and we we did the Steel Fence, which matched the other fence, which is kind of what everyone wanted. So great. So the other part is where there's currently DG Granite. Yes. Can you point to that area right now? That is the area that is the darker brick. OK, so that's really is, so I'm just the scale in my mind. I'm having to like rescale in my mind. So essentially. This is really zoomed in on the southern part of the class. Yeah, that makes sense. So the existing location is there and then basically you want to move it further back into that area. And then the border will become planters instead of additional steel fence. Correct. Okay. That's what you're proposing at least. Yeah. Got it. Cool. That's all. Cool. And we don't know where the shutter box is approximately. Do you know how to tap? I mean I've walked on top of it. Is it near the gravity card, the existing gravity card? No. It's in the G2 area. Oh okay. So that's on top of it. Is it near the existing gravity curve? No. It's in the tea area. Oh, OK. So that's how they found it. OK. It's kind of in, if you can see them at the mouse, it's in this area. That would make sense that they found it. OK. I feel properly oriented. Thank you for bearing with me on that one. Yes. So now to a question where I'm just looking for feedback. I'm not looking for any decision today. This will be a decision that staff will make at a later date. But staff and consultants have identified the gravity cars, potential source of liability, their two primary concerns, the chance of feeling people falling from the car onto the brick below and the chance of people crawling under the car, gravity car, and getting stuck. There's no padding below nor scurrying around to prevent these sort of injuries. Children play on the cart regularly and staff is seeking feedback on whether signage or safety measures would be preferred by the community. A potential sign idea would be something of, you know, this is a historical reconstruction of a Mount TAM gravity card, Bordy Earn Risk, that wouldn't address the risk of crawling under it. But there are limitations to signage regardless. You know, it's kids playing on it, it's not adults, so we're not able to defend ourselves that well against it. You know, possibly the better solution is to simply put some rubber padding under it We're not able to defend ourselves that well against it. You know, possibly the better solution is to simply put some rubber padding under it and some scurrying under it to protect folks from specifically children from crawling under it. But I'm just interested in sort of some initial community feedback on that today. So assign like a board at your own risk sign would be enough to mitigate potential risk? It would point out, no, I don't think it would. I think it would have more of a raising awareness factor than it would any liability stream. Raise planters are the staff recommendations. I would like the commission to provide guidance on the recommended material. This is really an aesthetic choice about the use of the plaza. I would ask the commission to approve the repairs to the gravity car, to approve the relocation of the gravity car car and that is all I'm asking for today Can I ask another question about the fence? I know you have stuff. Sorry. No, sorry I'm taking too much time. So the so where the planters are is there a way we can extend the metal fence around behind the planters Or would it be either or? We could do it. The reason that it was so expensive before is because there wasn't going to be a concrete curb there. And that was going to be a concrete curb. So the technicality is of installing a fence and asphalt are substantially different than the challenges of installing it in concrete curve. Concrete is much easier. So we could install it. We could still do both. I think that where the planters go, when you say behind, you mean behind, from the perspective of? Like, basically so kids can't get through the planners into the driveway area. Catherine knows what I'm talking about. Sorry, Commissioner Jones. Oh, God, yes. Yeah, so for me, I think one of the big advantages of us expanding and leaving it open space is it leaves more space for kids and others to kind of run around and having a fence there just keeps the supervision line narrower so that they're not running into traffic. And I would be concerned about planters if there were spaces in between them. And the other direction too, the space that currently doesn't have the fences is the space where drivers are driving down, who have lived in Mill Valley for, you know, decades and have been used to driving straight through sunny side. And so that's where the fence needs to be for the driving protection too. So I just can say I agree with the idea of having a fence. I mean, the temporary fence was put there because of that. Yeah, I think having a fence, having the planters would be great and beautiful, but I do think we have to have a fence along that stretch. And I'm just curious if we do have the fence, if we can't plant on the exterior side of the fence to avoid some of the issues that you talked about with trampling. Folks are going gonna walk through it no matter where the fence is. And in our experience based in other spots, what would the thought be of if we connect the planters to each other with? I mean, I would prefer no planters and metal. Yeah, because it's actually pretty, I mean, I don't think planters are really necessary in my, that's my opinion. I mean, I don't think that was really necessary. That's my opinion. I would prefer offense. I would say if you want to pick one or the other, the offense is, that offense should be continued around. And you're proposing to put the train right there. It has to be fenced. But it's not just the train. It's also some of the other things that we were are want the space for, which is also like people can sit there and kind of lean against it when they're doing it going to the comedy. It's like a nice little spot to keep people from spilling into the drive area and like whatever else. So I think that there's advantages and also it's not as deep so it actually gives more space to the cause of there's a fence and the planners and I mean we could actually mitigate a lot of the issues that we were having discussing maintenance of the planters if we just don't do them. I think there's other places that we could do beautification in that area that need it. For example, around the tree that one tree that has the underneath area that people like to play in. I don't know if... I mean, I know you're asking for feedback on raised planters, but I feel like the fence and like a up like in my dream it was always like a berm that people could sit on and face inwards to like whatever was going on. Like a picnic little berm. That was definitely one of the things that we talked about and considered was also having it be like concrete steps, multi-use kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Would there be an opportunity to, if the fence sounds like, I mean, I agree with you guys, I think from just a safety perspective and being that busy street and a lot of reasons, but would it be possible to look at something where you had the planters there and built a bench on the interior and they were connected? So there'd still be that barrier you still get the greenery but I love the idea of some extra seating along that way. So like a row of benches along this interior side? Where you have the planners connecting them to kind of create that barrier but on the interior of that space like creating some benches from the off-the-planers. I actually think that what you're describing could like some sort of hybrid bench planter situation could be interesting. I mean I like the idea of putting some greenery down there. I think we could use some extra beautification and if it's something that is simple and you know we've got water and it's low maintenance, I it would be pretty but I like the idea of connect I mean I agree with you there needs to be a fence and we need to connect it so there's really no way to step out into traffic secondly it'd be great if you could kind of build a bench off the side on the interior side yeah I think the sizing of this area might just be a little bit smaller than allows for that. A bench is going to be two feet deep. These planters are going to be two feet deep. By that point, you're really kind of starting to encroach on the rate. No, I'm saying, I think what we're saying is that the benches would be at the same depth adjacent to the planters. not in front of the planters. They fill the gaps. But the fences is like, the fences is the starting point. I think also if there's a fence, we can be a little bit more flexible with planters. So they don't have to be humongous, long, connected. We do different shapes. There could be like a round one that's maybe like an art feature or whatever else and I think there's a lot of options if we kind of take care of the security around the perimeter. Sorry. It's a rethinking moment. So the the the fence is is the strong preference for everybody. Yes. Does yeah. Yes. Clear. What do you think? I think I think consistency and safety. I very much did like the picture of the red wood planters, but I am persuaded by my fellow commissioners' appeals to safety. I mean, it's true that that row right there where you're showing those proposed planters is right up against traffic. And a lot of kids, if you're moving the gravity train down there, then kids are going to be congregating in that area. So I think that the point is well taken. See how flexible I am. And then I would just ask the other question you were talking about was the safety of the car. I guess I would just want to understand like the integrity of the of it as it exists today and what we would do around it would have changed the look like do you change the correct the whole section that's around there take the brick out and make it soft or you're just talking about putting pads down I don't know I think I'd like to understand a little bit more what that would look like. Yeah, so it'd basically be You know fall standards would say for six feet outside of the edge of the of the element You just put a pad out and it would be you know a pre-quarter inch thick Kind of fall production map. It would be a significant visual impact. It would be black. In many ways, I think that it would diminish the effort that has gone through to put in these bread. So. I mean, the issue too with having a raised mat is the edges of the mat created tripping hazard. You can edge them off. Yeah. So like we can't have a ramp onto them. And then those are like that's all pre-fabricated. So. In the presentation, I'd ask signage or safety precautions is nothing in option? Nothing can be the preference of the commission. This is a decision that I think that staff does have authority to address the potential liability issue. Yeah. But if the prefer, you know, if that is a viable preference. How many accidents have we had on the gravity card? Yeah, none. And how many years has the gravity card been there? Since at least 2017. Yeah. I mean, if there was going to be silence, the only question I would ask is that maybe it doesn't need to be affixed. It could be adjacent. Like when you walk into a space, like the park, there's usually like a posting. Does it have to be right on it? Could it be off to the side where we could have the liability verbiage that makes the most sense, but not necessarily on the cart, but adjacent to it. You know, and you can usually come into a part of your own sign. I have no preference. If we need to put a small sign because we feel like that that's necessary, I'm fine with that. But I just, I mean, I don't, I think like part of the wonderfulness of the gravity cards that it's like this thing that's not a play structure that's made a plastic and kids definitely gravitate towards it and love it and it's not really that high off the ground so like I've definitely never had a kid ball and I've had a lot of kids that I've taken care of play on it and my own kids play on it so I don't think we really need to do anything but again if it's really necessary to do something, I think a small sign is fine, but I don't want it. I don't see a downside to a sign, honestly. I mean, as long as it's done in a way that the sign itself is not creating an additional obstruction, right? Totally agree. Like if the sign, you know, and I'm not here in any legal capacity and I'm not expressing an opinion as the enforceability of such a sign, but if it provides an argument or some margin potentially of protection from liability, I don't see a downside to doing it. So like, why not? I'm waiting for you to hear. Mark, Commissioner Jones, I feel like you were going to say something. I think Commissioner Justice and Commissioner Gray said it very well. Yeah, did it. Do we have any other comments? We can also go to public comment, or did you want to say anything else Mark? Okay. Do we have any public comment on this item? Do we have any new written? We have someone approaching. Cool, Leo. Hi, please state your name and address us simply because I don't think we're recording. And we want to make sure we get it. So Nick, back to a five level avenue. Really great to see the progress on this. Thank you all for your time in doing that. Interesting to hear the conversation. I would say I like the idea of having more seating on that end. And if there is a way to have that kind of bench instead of a fence, I think the idea of safety is paramount. But a bench could perhaps act as that fence. So that was really my only comment that I wanted to add to your great discussion. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. The bench does lend itself to a kid climbing on the bench to get over the fence. Totally. So that is actually something else. I mean, thank you, Nick. Yeah. For your comment. Like, kids are crawling all over the place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So much we can do, you know what I mean. That's correct. would be welcome for the parents. Actually, I love all the tables. Yeah, I mean, all the tables. And I think once the fence is up, then I think we'll all have a better opportunity to kind of look at it, think about it, see how the space works, and add to it, because all the core will be there and then we can make, I think you guys can make probably better decisions and we can make maybe better recommendations once we kind of see that fully developed space with the fence. Awesome. Do you feel that you've got another feedback that you need for now? I think there was one thing where I don't think we really weighed in so the idea of moving it. Oh, is that someone had feelings? Just because I think that at and this could change over time but that the current like source of you know like food and drink and sort of like music is all at the depot cafe. The distance for families to the, the current location of the train already feels pretty far. I don't feel strongly in this way, but I'm just curious. It feels like pushing it even further. It's almost out of like sightline for some, if you're standing at the cafe, if people are playing at the train car. So that was just the only thing that I saw or I thought when I first saw this. And that the, sorry, the other thing is that the way that it's framed right now is that it's kind of a little bit easier to see into the rows if you're looking for someone. And that the way that it's designed in the proposed location, it would just be the front, you would only see the front. And little, it would be difficult to front, you would only see the front, and it would be difficult to see those little heads or little bodies. So I also preferred the current, like way it's laid out. The one comment I have, I mean, and I, I mean, the thing I like about the idea of moving it is I think it'll open up the walkway a little more, you know, where it's right now It's kind of like in the middle. I see that and moving it to the end I think does make a certain amount of sense Bearing in mind how the safety issues with children that Various commissioners have been talking about tonight. I do wonder if it's I mean, it is kind of like right close to the edge there. Being mindful of the fact that we don't want to encroach on the shadow box project that we talked about and we're not exactly sure where that is sitting right here right now. But I do wonder if it could just be scooched over a little bit so that it's more equidistant between the two roads. That would be my suggestion. So it's a kind of like where? Yeah, sort of like a little further over there. I do see your point about how the existing, now that we have this extra space, that the existing location now feels like it's a big behemoth in the middle of the plaza. And so we could have more space for people to, you know, almost like picnic, like to really spread out. If we move it to the current DG space, is that the proposed new floor to it? Is it going to be brick? To the closet? To the West DG right now? Correct. That's not the proposed. That's the Woodson contract. Okay. So if I'm hearing the sort of preference of the commission is to keep the existing orientation and sort of go equidistant between the existing journey and the proposed zone here to be more or less in this location. No, my equidistant proposal was to make an equidistant between the two roads, between Miller, Avenue and the bottom of sunny side. I will say that one of the concerns historically has been that if it goes underneath the trees, it does tend to have a condensation problem. Okay, well then you know just take it under advisement to see what you can do. I would agree, though, I think having it at the end and opening up the plaza is a better fit for a lot of the events that we'll be doing in that space. OK. Yeah, I don't know, because now there's not a walkway anymore. So now it feels like it's at the end of the plaza currently and I don't think it hasn't been moved really that much but I don't think it needs to be moved that much. I actually think it's fine in the current space but with the shadow box and any additional signage signage that the shadow box might have there might be kind of a spot where it makes a lot of sense for it to be just as a historical feature. And I just don't feel like I can envision that spot in this moment because we don't know where the rails are and whatever else. So it sounds like we're not making a decision, we're just giving feedback. I'd be super interested in like going down there with you with maybe some other people or getting some pictures or something that we can kind of like look at it further for the position of the gravity car. You have to remove it anyway to restore it. So it's gonna go back, but and we have time to figure out where it, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think a site visit would be valuable, whether or not it's something we sort of like all march down and do together Or set up a camp or whether we just sort of like you know in the course of our day I don't know for I'm just go together. Yeah, we have to go separate. I guess we do like you and I could go right just too But we couldn't go all of us right no we can't All right, okay great. Well if we don't have any public comment on this item, maybe let's move on and Well, we read the letter and it's posted online, so we don't have to yeah Okay, thanks so much. We're gonna move on to the final item of the night, consideration of San volleyball quartz project. Thanks, everyone, for waiting. Sorry that we didn't catch it, and it was the last item until it was too late. Excuse me. Lauren, do we have the slides? The paper slides? Paper slide. I have my printed. Yeah. There's a problem with which one is uploaded. I don't have an internet to get the correct one. Yes. It's not. Well, let me see. Maybe this. Great. the I would like to ask you a question. Great. Excuse me. Today I'll be presenting on the Bayfront Park, the sand volleyball courts, Mark Damon-Duppie, Director of Operations and Utilities. Today on this agenda, there will be background, some discussion on the location selection, but benefits, potential drawbacks, staff recommendations, next step, and a time for questions. To the right hand to the screen here, you see an aerial view of the northern part of Bayfront Field. Cut off off to the left here is the multi-use path roundabout. To the north of the project site is the path that connects the hockey park bridge and the Bayfront Bayside path. The line shown in purple would be a proposed 10 foot tall fence surrounding the proposed valuable court. This 10 foot fence would connect and tie into the existing fence that surrounds Bayfront Field, as well as there would be a short modification of the existing fencing to provide a four foot fence and gate to maintain the existing access to Bayfront Field while still allowing year round access to the volleyball courts. Back some background on the beach volleyball, sort of globally, it's a healthy find out to our activity activity Which over 5.5 million people play in the United States? It's the fastest growing sport in NCAA history a very watch sport in the Olympics Hundreds of mill value youth participate in CYO school and club volleyball programs and it is a Growing popularity increasing demand locally have put a strain on the limited number of sand courts available in the county. There are four of the College of Brand, two of Piper Park and Larksboro. One at Dumpy Park in Sosolito, and one at San Clemente Park in Corte Madera. Background specific to Mill Valley. In the 2004 Bayfront Master Plan and Amendment, the first item in the executive summary says that recommended to develop a regulation size volleyball court with permanent polls and net to be located near, but a safe distance from the new hockey park playground with the precise for location to be determined by staff. In 2022, the former Arts and Recreation Director applied for the per capita grant from the California State Department of Parks and Recreation to reconstruct the volleyball court, heard the master plan. The grant was awarded in 2022, it expires in 2028. The value of the grant is approximately $175,000. And there is a community investment and involvement. Community members have offered to fund raise funds required for construction beyond the grant. So beyond staff time, some infrastructure improvement would have no impact to the city budget. Location selection. So initially, again, it was a safe distance from the new hockey park playground. The 2004 master plan amendment did not identify a specific site, though. The court service and exact location were to be researched and selected by parks and recreation staff is the specific language there. The first location of the earliest city renderings, which were around 2019, 2021-ish, they show the proposed courts west of hockey south. So west in this case is down. So that is the location shown in purple. It goes around the park course stations. It is proved hard to locate the courts here without, well, impossible to locate the courts here without entering protected wetlands. BC, that's the Bay Coast of Development Commission, jurisdiction and authority and the California Fish and Wildlife and Federal Fish and Wildlife, all make that extremely rigorous and complete for permitting. The next closest location was north of the hockey bridge path that's shown here in the blue. This too is also within BC shoreline jurisdiction. We hit 100 feet right in here and 100 feet from the shoreline is where BCDC jurisdiction ends. Also that same corner because it encroaches into those blackberry brambles, it enters into suspected wetlands and it's also in conflict with the PG&E utility pool which would significantly in complicate development. So therefore the north into Bayfront Field, shown here in yellow, is the next closest vacant site. It is not environmentally sensitive, and it is not within BC jurisdiction. Benefits to this site. The existing points of entry and traffic flow from Bayfront Field assure our county partners that no new hazards would be introduced to the multi-use path. I met with them back in April. And their sort of main concern was, are you going to have a bunch of people entering the round about, entering the multi-use path from new vectors? And given that we can have them enter from that side, fenced off, it's really no more folks than entering exit through Bayfront field already. The existing pathways surrounding the site on three sites limit potential future use. So because you have sort of a use shape around the northern side of that site, it's not wide enough for a large field. You know, there's not much that could be built there. The location preserves passive use areas that are outside of the fenced bayfront field so that area to the north where the PG&E pull is. That is sort of a desirable open spot for picnic benches and folks passing through, people sitting on the former retaining wall. This would also provide new revenue to the city. It's estimated at $10,000, excuse me, $5,000 to $10,000 based on neighboring municipalities, budgets, and the only cost to the city for the construction is staff time. Maintenance of volleyball courts is also relatively minor beyond what we would experience for turf maintenance that we have now. Potential drawbacks identified by staff. The space is presently used as a transition zone for soccer and lacrosse teams. Staff does feel that alternative locations are possible, specifically that area that was identified in blue to the north outside of the fence. And reviewing the site plan shows that, roughly two thirds of that existing rally space would still be available. There would be modestly more traffic to the site. The traffic increase will be less than day from fields kind of typical day typical day in day out traffic, which gets nearly year round use with larger crowds than volleyball courts can support. And while adjacent parking is limited, this is already a known and mitigated limitation. Overflow parking at the community center in the spaces that S's provided and along so can we're avenue you know address that as best as it can be. So staff recommendations I asked that the commission recommend this project to city council for approval specifically to San Quartz was an 85 by 105 footprint and 10 foot fence surrounding the play the court area to protect surrounding infrastructure. And then also to approve the proposed use fees for future volleyball courts based on neighboring municipalities. From here, presuming that there is support for this tonight. A third party secret review is underway and is anticipated early September. Right now we are on the agenda for the City Council meeting on September 16th. Once those two hurdles are met, we will ask our community partners to begin fundraising efforts. And the Arts and Recreation Department has said that they will help publicize the drive. And then it is early as March of 2025, we anticipate we could put the project out to bid. And construction could theoretically happen as early as April or May 2025, meaning this project would be ready for summer of 2025. And with that, are there questions? Do you anticipate any conflicts with the fact that the Bayfront Master Plan is kind of in pieces and we're looking at a project to update it and make it really clear like do you think there's any conflicts with the Bayfront Master Plan basically? No, I think the Bayfront Master Plan is clear that it recommends a volleyball court and says that the precise location is to be determined by staff based on their research. Great. I saw that you have the blue and the yellow and I was curious if you, if it, if the path between the blue and the yellow is deemed like essential in that location. It is, it has a special permit from BCDC, which must be maintained. So, relocating that path would be a new permit process with BCDC, and we would have to construct and open the path before we could begin demolishing the existing path. Public access to that, to specifically through the bridge, must be maintained at all times. And so is that line that looks like, kind of like a social path through the blue, would that be insufficient? Yeah. To call it access? Yeah, and the line, the kind of social path is undesirable because it defeats the, and the line, the kind of social path is undesirable because it defeats the purpose of the roundabout. So the idea of the roundabout was to make sure that there are understood entry points and do that very high traffic intersection. And the sort of, you know, the social path is going to be identified. It cuts us off. We are in, the social path is not good for safety. OK. OK. We are in the social path is not good for safety. Okay. Where is the access for athletes who are not, who are accessing Bayfront Park in the final plan? We would make a double wide gate similar to existing in this red four foot plan slide. Okay. Is there any way to move? So there's a current gate at the west of that yellow that has been closed because of safety concerns around the bike path. Is there a way to move the yellow field east and allow access for volleyball from that east point and access to Bayfront from just north, just south of that triangle that's in the map that sort of like as the field turns. So yeah. I don't think I'm here. So like there could be a gate that athletes could enter that is sort of out of the main path, a main stem of that bike path. The county expressed significant concern when we met with them about the safety of anything that moves the entry point further west of present. Okay. They really wanted to make sure that bicyclists coming off the roundabout going on the bridge path are not unexpectedly like, we're here where you have this this demarcation the assumption is is that traffic in this side of the demarcation will be going east and on this side will be going west so that you know having this you know approximately 80 90 feet down down the path gives more time for folks to adjust after coming off the multi-use map. And is there any fence at all along that edge where seven-year-olds are going to play lacrosse on Bayfront on the, when they're entering Bayfront Park? So on the yellow edge that's not circled by purple? Here? Yeah, that was my question, too. You see the purple that's adding circled by purple? Here. Yeah, that was my question, too. You see the purple that's adding in and you see the red. Is there also a fence that comes from the purple to the red? Like we're fencing that whole area, correct? No, I'm proposing to leave the volleyball courts accessible year round. The reason we have Bayfront fenced off is largely to allow for closures during renovation to keep folks off of it. But like, okay, September, 2025, I'll go as well and it's open. You have kids coming in for soccer practice right there, and there's people playing volleyball right there, and there's no delineation. Other than the concrete curve, correct. Okay. Is there a reason we wouldn't propose having a fence with an entry that's there just thinking of the walkers and you know people with like bikes and dogs and kids and perfectly able to do it the main the main reason I didn't include it is cost that fence is like $250 a linear foot you know so adding you know it's adding roughly $25,000 to the cost. Leap Roger. And you can't use what's existing there today. That curved piece sets there. We could, but that's only a four foot fence. I may think from my point of view, I would just, it just seems like it should be enclosed a little bit. We can absolutely make this enclosed on four sides. Which ways the orientation of the two courts? You know, two courts run, in this case, north, south, top to bottom. Okay, so also in the plan you described like how that field is used as that area is used as a transition zone. So kids are coming in, they're putting their cleats on, they're they're you know getting their mouth guards and their lacrosse tips now. And so now that space is being taken by something really exciting, the volleyball court. And so I just have a concern that maybe this space between Bayfront and Bellropers right now should could be better used as that transition zone than it is now. And I know that's not identified in the master plan, but I would say that it like that space that's between Bellropers and Bayfront needs to be a shared transition zone now for athletes. So, this is kind of a larger map. The volleyball courts are up here. I believe Commissioner Jones is discussing this area at the south of the Bayfront Field, north of Belgrimper's Field. Yeah. I just feel like at some point, we're kind of going to be asking people to, that's going to be a more common area to access both fields. And so maybe we should in the future, and I don't want to tie it hold up the volleyball process. I think there can be improved use of that space to like mitigate the loss of that northern space where people are playing pass now and changing and watching games. If we're just talking about transition zone, I don't know that any change necessarily would need to be done to it. You know, right now it's designated by the master plan is a unprogrammed space, a passive area, that would promote things, it even mentions in the report, things such as picnicking or general recreation. To that end, I don't think that using it as a transition space is necessarily a violation of that plan and wouldn't be controlled by the master plan. And I guess I've got a related question to that. I mean, have you had the opportunity to speak to representatives of soccer or across to get their thoughts and feedback in terms of what could be used as the alternative transition area? No, we haven't. I haven it. Can we go back to that diagram that you just had up and can you loosely show us where the moved fence line is going to be? On this one? Yeah. So the existing 10 foot fence terminates right around here. Uh-huh. It would pick that up, go straight up to the, basically right up to the multi-use path, turn to the east and come down, I believe, right about in here. Yeah, so to right about here and then come down to the south and make the return. And then that is a fence area or not, you were saying it was open. Right now you can see this sort of white line that is the existing fence line. Right, but the new proposed, you were saying that you wanted it open on the time, there's not a reason to close it because it doesn't need to rehab it. And that's why there's fence to close the field. Correct. But so can you I'm just I just want to visualize the Additional fence and then it the that curved part of the fence on the north and it's gonna be removed It's gonna be removed yeah, and then that's gonna be where the courts are Yep, and then where is the new fence line gonna be in to close in the field It's going to run from right about this location down to the south eastern post of the 10 football line. Okay, and then, and then, right, that kind of northeast location that you just pointed to, that's the new entrance for the fields, for the soccer fields. A double wide gate that would allow both maintenance equipment and entry for users would be installed along that four foot months. And that little triangular area is kind of like the area where you're like walking to get and pass the volleyball court. Just meaning, yeah, that triangle. Yeah, okay. And so right in the middle of that red line is the double fence that you're referring to. I don't know that it would be, it could be at any point on that, but that would be sort of feel fit. Yeah, I guess my question was just like, why wouldn't we just sort of do the low gate to close off the volleyball area and you still would have part of that triangle to be used by the soccer team or by whatever sports are happening in the lower section. Utilizing what's existing there today with the round fence. I think what he his point was that really the fences to be able to close off the fields for rehab and I mean putting fences around things is you know obviously for safety and you are saying that that's not really a safety issue because of the size of the space for the volleyball. Courts? Yeah, I mean I think that the traffic, you know, the traffic loan, the multi-use path they wanted to prevent aren't, you know, spikes or balls from flying over into their space. You know, I think that with the amount of buffer zone you have between these two zones, it didn't seem to warrant the need to have a 10 foot tall fence there. Yeah, I don't think you needed 10 foot. I just think if you kept the four foot that was in there and almost brought it up, but I guess my thinking is it just creates and I still in theation as people are coming around that you don't have this open space where you fall right into the volleyball court. It kind of closes it off a little bit to make it a little bit more private. Not private, but. Reusing, yeah, so we absolutely can make a fence along those same limits, but reusing chain link fence tends to be very difficult. Yeah. We use the in-chain length fence to be very difficult. It, yeah. So what he's talking about budget. So then this would add additional budget. So what if we did something like the, like what in chicane that we did on the multi-use path? Is that more or less a sense of the in-chain length fence? Like would- Less expensive, where would you, where would you, just what commissioner Huffman was referring to on the purple line to the north side. Like in between here? No, I think you're referring to like the whole perimeter of the area. Oh, so like a split rail fence? Yeah, like split rail, like kind of just in between the courts and the path, just as like a delineation. It's not necessarily a safety. Yeah, I was thinking, like, just where the yellow was. Instead of the red kind of shooting across like that, just having it come up by the yellow that creates an entryway into the volleyball courts. And then it could also create the doubling fence using these is sting fence to go back into the large field. That feels like a curl to me personally. I mean, there's going to be a lot of times when there's soccer players going out of the fields and no one's using the volleyball court and they can use that area to, like, you know. Do the same thing that we're losing. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I'm thinking about the Dumpy Park. volleyball courts are like smack-dum in the middle of like everything happening. So, you know, it's kind of like we're thinking about costs, we're thinking about delineation, we're thinking about safety. We can't reuse chain link fence. I'm just personally trying to think of a way to possibly suggest a good in between option that's inexpensive but also not like unnecessary. Just because it is public use property and also obviously schedule use but. So. I mean, putting the, you know, putting new forefoot chain link fence to close this area and maybe, you know, change the orientation. That's the desire of the commission. It's not. I don't think it's so expensive that it blows the budget of the project, right? We're talking about less than 10% of the project budget. So that's the desire. Yeah. Do we have any other questions? Or do we want to, are you almost out of the staff? Yes, I'm in question mode. Do we want to take public comment? I just have a few more questions. The proposal, the one in blue, was the one that I think that I had previously believed. And I think that some others had believed was the preferred alternative. Is BCDC not amenable to volleyball courts? Or is it just that the permitting process is difficult? The permitting, it adds, it adds significant challenges to the permitting process. It also, it's not so much BCDC as it is the fish and wildlife. Okay. And monitoring because it is a, if it's a suspected wetland, you have to treat it as a wetland, and you need to do monitoring for potential sites. This whole area, once you go closer to the bay, there are a number of, obviously, there are a number of very well protected species that we need to be mindful of. There's also a PG&E base right there with the wires that come out into that. So the social path actually goes underneath those wires right now. Okay. We have another user group we're adding to the current user groups. Where do you propose that they use go to the bathroom after 4.30 on weekdays and 2 p.m. on Saturdays and Sundays? The hockey park restroom across the hockey bridge is open during those times. Okay. Is there any discussion of having portable bathrooms out there? We cannot put portable restrooms on that side of the bridge, on that side of the multi-use path, because the county will not allow access for sanitary trucks to it. Okay. So I'm ready to open up for public open time. So anybody or sorry comments on this agenda item. So if anybody wants to come up and comment on this, they are welcome to at this time. Please state your name and address us simply for the record. And then after that, we have some things for laundry. Hi, I'm Rick Ronald, one panorama view, Mill Valley. Thank you very much for your time and considering the volleyball parts. I'm very much in support of the volleyball courts. We need them. There's a ton of kids that are using them. All kinds of groups is Mark pointed out and the popularity keeps growing and growing. Chris Gleven, I have been working on this for about nine years now. And we are in full support and we'll continue to do it. We can help the city to get it done, including spearheading the fundraising campaign for the community's portion of the cost of the project. So we're here to help. We appreciate all your support. And one other thing I'd just like to quickly add, you know, there are four courts at College of Marin, but those courts are not open to the public whereas in large-bur and court of Madera and Saasleedo they are so College of Marin helps with the you know the kids program so long as the coaches are somehow connected to College of Marin but for no more recreation players that it's not an option so these courts will be very much used and appreciated. I can promise you. Thank you very much. Thanks, Rick. Hello, my name is Chris Leif. I live at 71 Winvista. Thank you for having it on the agenda again tonight. You've had it on the agenda before and looks like we're getting close to completion after these eight, nine years. Many of the questions that have been asked mark his experience through three different department director and we keep pushing it forward. There's an enthusiasm as quite a few people are here to speak tonight as they will with City Council on the 16th on Matagenda. I believe there has been a tremendous support with also email being sent in for this project. And the enthusiasm is great because the youth groups, I coach some of the youth groups also, and they just want more space. And if we can provide it in the valley, we're providing a great environment for the children around here and even as older players too. So don't discriminate just to the younger ones. Those old guys wanna play. So thank you for your support. Thanks Chris. Hi. Hi. Nick Bach back to a five level again. Thank you. For your time on this great to see something coming in for you for years I think it's really exciting to have more activity usage right so creating a new kind of facility for everyone in town. I guess a couple of comments. One is that it's great that it's public-funded too. No fiscal impact, that's great to hear. One consideration, which isn't 100% clear, is just looking at site one, if that is 100 feet outside BCDC. I'd love to understand that a bit further because that does seem like it's been commented on that potentially the preferred site, closer to restrooms, less impact on Bayfront and Bill Ropers. And as you consider kind of the hockey Bayfront, Bill Ropers and master plans around these, also thinking about how we can have more field space, right? We know the allocations are very challenging, right? When we think about you sports in town, and that's potentially a spot that's adjacent to the Bay Front Bill Ropers. I know a few years ago there was consideration for combining that field space, right? Actually creating more field space there. And so we love for that to be something that is considered by all of you, because I think it's important for us to think about how we create more space, the potential fiscal impact, being able to rent more space, and then on top of that, potentially where we could look at turf. So different angles to think about how we have more revenue opportunities throughout the year and the potential for private funding similar to this project to help support those approaches. So a couple extra points around my support for this project and some other things to consider. Thank you. Thank you, Nick. Hello everyone, my name is Lisa Einsley and I live at 39th Annaway. Thank you for your work on this project and work in general. My question regarding where the location is at the Bayfront Field is what about the King Tides and flooding? Because that area can be prone to flooding and then you have sand and a flooded area. So I was just wondering what happens then. Thank you. Hi, everyone. Jerry LeBae, 25 Matilda Avenue on the board of the Friends of Parks and Recreation. So first of all, thanks to Mark for all the work he did. I mean, with the alphabet soup of agencies, it's been, you know, I know it's been quite a lot of process to get to the location that you found and I'm glad that it seems to work. This project's been on Friends of Parks and Rec's radar screen for seven years. I have an email where the City Council approved $50,000 for it back in 2018. So I know that the city's been behind it for a while as well. So I just want to say that the Friends really does support this project. We're excited that it's going to happen and look forward to working with the City and the volleyball supporters to help get it done. Thanks. Thanks, Eric. Hi, my name's Greg Moore. I'm at 221 Reed Street. Thanks Mark for doing a great job and actually for pushing this along. I was on the commission when they presented it in 2016 and 2018 and we approved this as part of the master plan and one of our priority plans and we got approval from the city for budgeting for this and then COVID hit so all the different budgets were basically eliminated. So it's really exciting to see that a grant was written and that there's funds now available. And I'm also part of Friends of Parks and Recks. We're very supportive of this and want to see this happen. Just a quick note on the first site option, my understanding that that was not acceptable because hockey park south flows into that. That's the drainage. And so basically it is in the wetlands, but in fact it's almost non-usable because all the drainage runs through that. So that's why that was not considered for my memory back then. Anyways, thank you everybody. Thanks, Greg. Hi, I'm Metta. I'm Julie Rocherall. I live at 150 level Avenue. And I wrote in as well, but I thought I would add a face to a name of the email. And I will not be redundant with my comments that I made in the email. But thank you for all of the work. I am new to this project. My daughter has taken up volleyball maybe three years ago now and she's an active participant in the Beach volleyball community. And she's in sixth grade, and I just wanted to say, personally, it's a really great group. It's a deep group of kids between Mill Valley and other areas in Marin that camp seem to be constantly sold out. It's a passionate group of athletes and coaches. It would be lovely to have this be part of our community. Right now we travel up to Piper Park where she has played and that she's also been fortunate to play at College of Marin as well. I don't have a comment about location but I would just love to see it incorporated into our city and our parks and rec offerings for our town. And then there's other comments in the email, but it's essentially the same. Thank you. Thank you. Hi. My name is Heidi Elishtia Boutwright. And I work in the Marin area. I am a beach volleyball coach. Did you give your address? I'm in Sonoma. I travel down here. We have to just record it for them. Yeah. I intend to do this. You're allowed to make a comment. And I've been a beach volleyball coach in Marin for about the last seven, eight years on and off. And just seen the sport grow in this area and have coached quite a few players who have gone up to the collegiate level and just seeing the amount of how this sport is growing and the need for more courts for the youth athletes and not just for the youth athletes, just like Chris said, for the adults as well. These adults are playing next to these athletes as well. And if not next to them against them, or just watching them and waiting for them to be done and to use the court next. But I do believe we are the beach volleyball community. They're very, very supportive and encouraging of each other and we are all excited for this project and we hope that gets down to the finish line. Thank you. Thanks. Hi, my name is John Toulor. I live at 128 Dell Casa Drive in Mill Valley. And I very much support this project. I just found out about a couple weeks ago and made my way here. I am a soccer player though and 20 years ago I started playing a sport called Beat Soccer. And 10 years ago I found myself playing quote professional beat soccer. It wasn't. In Switzerland where they had built a court in the middle of, you know, a bit of dry land, you know, there's no beach in Switzerland. And so I see this project and I hope to maybe tag along. And I know you volleyball people have been working very hard on this. And so I don't want to step on your toes in any way. And I want you to know I support you completely. But I think there's an opportunity here to have volleyball nets that are removable. I don't want to add too much here. But with removable nets, we could add Beat Soccer as another program. It's a very popular sport. We have a World Cup. Kids from all ages play it. It's generally done on the summer out here on the beaches. But it would be invaluable to be able to step here in Mill Valley and be able to play this game. You know, I have coach teams, I have coach players. And to me, this is just a phenomenal opportunity. I brought along my friend Tyg. He does a lot of coaching here for the regular soccer in New Valley. He's down at those fields almost every single day. So he knows a lot of the issues that you guys were talking about. So he's going to come up after me and you know tell you what he knows and hopefully you guys will consider the addition of this and I know there will be costs involved and myself and I know Ty again his organization will be more than happy to help bring up the difference in costs to allow this field to be useful for more than just all of all but also as a beach soccer pitch. Thanks. Thank you. Just as a reminder, when you're commenting on an item, and it please address the commission, state your name and address, address the chair. State your views succinctly, avoid repetition, limit comments to three minutes. Please note the chair will allow time on all agenda items, which is what we're doing because it's an agenda item. My name is Ty Rosalind. My address my permanent address is 161 Humboldt Street, Santa Felle, California. I have been a coach and we're in county for over 35 years. Sorry I don't know. Harden my printer, pretty much sucks. But as John alluded to, I wanted to first kind of come back to the map and address some of your questions about the soccer community. The area in which you're talking about doing it here, this is not a transition area. This is a known nothing area. I'm out on this field all the time. The kids don't hang out on it. They don't pass a ball. At most, they leave their bag there. This is a perfect spot for what you're proposing, because it's not used. It's basically got a little bit of a hill to it. It's dead grass, clumpy, fescue, and it's unusable for anything. It's not a transition area. It's an area where we walk in, if you can bring up the other map, the larger one, and I'll try to make my comments. This is the gated area that he was talking about. This is where we walk in. This is, this is rotted out and is basically sand now. The proposal that he has here is that the gate opening would be here. You're still coming in the same area. We're not traveling any less, we're not traveling any more. This area is just walking path. The nobody sits there. Nobody does anything. In fact, all the way to this area, there's nothing. This is not a transition area. This is an unused area. So once you get to this edge of the grass, which was considerably further on this map, then you're linking out where they put down their bags, that's where they have their balls, that's where they pass the ball. So I just want to kind of go through that so that it raises some of your questions in regards to, now also I also want to know that I may be a employee of No Valley Soccer, but I'm no way am I representing them or they even know that I'm here. I'm representing myself and I was asked by John McComb. In the notes that you'll see there, I was a writer of over 50 pages of policy for the 2020 Vision Master Plan for the General Plan of Santa Felle. I've done research on Marin County. This field that we're talking about here is the newest field in the county. It's the only field that's been built in Marin County since 1980. Before that, it was Santa Felle High School's field. So you're looking at the newest area that's been developed for athletics for for grass games now what I'm talking I want to talk to you about is the idea you don't have that much more time so okay I'm asking for this to be enlarged by five feet to 90 feet to 100 and what was it to 125 feet that would take this distance and bring it just slightly here and just slightly here. This would allow for a natural beach soccer field to be built. It would also allow for the beach volleyball people to have more area to practice around the edges. And if you were to go on the like, perplexity or chat GPT and actually do the math, the proposed size is not large enough for what is asked upon in regards to the three meter barriers in between courts and on the edges of courts. Thanks, Ty. Your time is up, but can you please email us all this information? Yes. Just email to the director and she can disseminate it. And the papers that I gave you also has information if you want to contact me about other questions because I do consider myself an expert in regards to all of the things very much. Thank you. Thank you. And also not to disregard yourself, but turf. Okay, okay. We've actually addressed that many times. You can check the agendas in the minutes. It's been addressed multiple times over the years. Yeah. Hi, I'm Owen Graham, a 512 hillside avenue. I just want to share that I'm super stoked that this is happening. And I played for a 10 volleyball and I've played since my freshman year. I just want to add a point that right now, like volleyball is pretty expensive. Right now you have to play club to get good. If you had no experience, that's kind of the only way you get to play unless you're a raw talent and you get to make fresh, so you're fresh when you're something. And so I think this is a really good way, just like, in a affordable way, to just get to play the game. And I think it will increase players for the sport. It's kind of a little less than. What year are you at them? I'm a junior. Yeah, this year. Yeah, thank you Do we have any more public comment on the sign up? Lauren do you want to read the written comments? Oh My how many do we have Thanks everyone for coming and staying Okay, great. Okay. So, some people did not give their full address. So we'll read what we have. This is from a woman or man named Young. I'm writing in support of the new San volleyball court. I often play San volleyball at Duffy in Sosolito with a large group of people. And we always have a great time. I think the court at Duffy is a great addition to that park. And I suspect the one in Mill Valley will be as successful. OK. This is from Nancy Conjure. one in Mill Valley will be as successful. Okay. This is from Nancy Conjure and she's from Mill Valley, Marin Avenue. Good afternoon. I am in support of building the San volleyball court at Bayfront Park in Mill Valley. San volleyball is a popular sport and will be a great community-wide activity for all ages. As a player, we often had trouble finding courts and would have to travel to other towns to play. In addition, because colleges and universities now support their own beach volleyball teams, young developing players, need more courts locally on which to practice. volleyball is the park. volleyball in the park has always been one of the most popular community sports for families and friends playing pickup or just when on a picnic together I believe it would be a great addition to the Molle Valley recreation. okay and this is from Chris Henry did not give their address. This is a brief statement of support for the proposed San volleyball court in Mill Valley. I have been fortunate to play at the San volleyball in Soselito since it's opening in 2020 and the court and volleyball league continue to grow in popularity. I highly recommend public funds being used for this project in Mill Valley. From Julia, no address, Mill Valley resident. And I can't express enough the importance of building sand volleyball courts in Mill Valley. Our boys play tons of sports and would really benefit from this new facility. After watching the summer Olympics, it is clear to see that it is a growing sport and offers a great form of exercise with minimum equipment and upkeep needed. All right, two more. Oh, this is a long one. This is from Maggie who did not state her address, but she does live in Mill Valley. I'm writing in support of San volleyball initiative for Mill Valley. I'm a resident of Mill Valley and it's important these San courts are installed for many reasons. One of which is that we're one of the only southern Marin cities that does not have courts already. It is a growing sport and I would love for my kids and family to have the opportunity to play now and in the future when my kids are older. I also, excuse me, I've also heard its low maintenance to maintain relatively low cost to build and it's something the whole community could enjoy. It's truly an ageless sport. I can't attend the meeting. The council meeting tonight but I would love to show my support by sending an email in lieu of my presence tonight. Please make sure this priority this is a priority to approve for Mill Valley as we all enjoy it for years to come. All right. And one last one from Michelle Cove. She did not list her address, but she is a resident of Mill Valley. I'm supporting the San Valley Ball Initiative for Mill Valley. For Mill Valley, I'm a resident of Mill Valley, and it's important these courts are installed. So this is exactly the same sentence paragraph that I just read to you, so I'm gonna skip on to the part of her email that is new. My daughter, age seven, will start playing volleyball next week, and she is excited for the opportunity to grow into the sport. While watching San volleyball during the Olympics, she repeatedly asked where we could go do that. And then again, she states that she cannot attend tonight's meeting but is sending her email in support of the project. Okay, excellent. So do we have any more discussion from the commission? I'm so sorry I missed one. Oh, sorry. I didn't scroll down far enough. This is from Jeff. I want to voice my support for the installation of San volleyball courts near the middle school. It would be great to have this happen. Super fun recreation and sports for all ages, preschools to seniors, to seniors. It's a great cardio workout that can increase the health and well-being of people in Mill Valley. Beach volleyball is one of the fastest growing NCAA sport over the last five years. Ads to youth sport opportunities for boys and girls in Marin, fun way to meet your neighbors. Thank you, Jeff. Great. So, does the commission have any other questions or anything else I want to ask? Mark. I have one thing. So, is the plan already constructed or basically after this is approved by the council, then there will be a construction plan put in place Specifications and maybe some more details of the plans will be done after While the fundraising effort is ongoing But this is intended to be Sort of is bare bones of a bid hack it as we can is I can muster With my contractor background I like I could have bid this project. Totally, I totally get that. But like for example, the suggestion to make the court slightly larger so that it could actually accommodate multiple sports. I'm just wondering if it's too late to incorporate those. No. Okay, so this is just basically going into approval that yes, let's do it at this site. Yes, we approve the funding that's coming in from the City Council. That's our job tonight. Approval or deny or give me. Sorry, I misunderstood your question. So as of right now, it is not too late to recommend the size of the court. but the commission and council need to approve the size of the court and the commission needs to approve this meeting and council needs to approve the size of the court. Okay, got it. Is there additional questions? I see a mic's going on. Well, I guess my question for you, Denmark, is now that we have a request to enlarge the court and to make it usable as a multi-sport court? Do you think that is that feasible? I don't I'm not a volleyball player I don't know anything about how the nets go up or if the poles are fixed or if that would get in the way of soccer or what is that feasible I feel like that I think that the question I would like to ask is and I think Vanessa was touching upon it is can we approve the general location and the general addition of the San volleyball court without because it I think that you would have to lay it out on the map and determine that it that a slightly larger port would fit and accommodate all users and you might not be able to do that right now. I can't change the layout but I can say that it's going to be 20% more expensive. Right and so that is- So then that's a cost. That's an additional cost is what you're saying. $75,000 extra. Yeah. Okay. It's like it's not, yeah, it's not a trivial cost. No. Increase that. Yeah. I mean, so my stance right now is I'm inclined to approve as is with site number three so that we can get this going because the break ground time would be if everything goes smoothly, is still 2025. Correct. Yeah. And if someone magically raised another $75,000, could it be expanded at a later date? That is a question from a practical standpoint. Can the bid documents be changed? Yes. The bid documents can be changed very quickly to make that change. But to the extent that the volleyball community may not want to share, the commission may decide that this is not an appropriate use that maybe the encouragement on soccer gets to be significant. I am not a sand volleyball player. I'm not an expert in those in those discussions. I guess it's a part I'm sorry go ahead. No I'm just gonna say we've had like obviously lots of sand volleyball people away and for the past nine years so I feel like that this size is fine and great and this is good, but if Commissioner and great, did you have another? I was just going to say, I mean, that's fine. I know that from the comments that we've gotten here tonight and on other occasions, that this is a project that has been many years in the making. I think we'd all like to see it sort of be resurrected from the limbo that it's been in for the last however long it's been in limbo And it feels a little bit. I mean, so like this plan has been talked about and vetted for like a right time Exactly. And to add, I mean, it sounds great to me to have a multi-sport thing in a jigger and like that would be beneficial to a lot of people But we don't have a whole lot of information about that right now. And so we would have to pose, I think we would have to get more, I mean I don't feel like we're in a position to make a decision on that right now. And I'm not sure that it's appropriate to hold up this project. No, not at all. I agree with you 100% it's not appropriate. It's been approved multiple times. This is like legitimately something that I think is going to be a benefit. So I mean, I agree with that. From a logistical standpoint of making an approval for the site and location and relative size that exists today and fast forward to a year from now when construction bids are going out and fundraising triples what we anticipated being and it comes in what is the effects of trying to make a change on the bid. Six months from now could be as simple as another commission meeting and city council meeting to approve those changes. Prior to construction. Correct. And I just want to think it's fair to say that there was a lot of written commentary and I have yet to read a single person who is not a fan of the volleyball court coming in and in this location. So I just think there's been an overwhelming response from the community and it's our responsibility to see it through. I will have to just mention that five or six people were really worried about pickleball courts as a new thing coming up. So just something for us to think about as an agenda item in the future Obviously, there's not a lot open space, but we have time for that for at the end for commission. Yes requests But overall everybody was very on it and I think it's our job to kind of see it through so All right, do I have a motion? I move to pass the proposal as it currently exists with the recommendation of citation. Yeah. Of site C. Yeah. Site C. I second. All in favor. Hi. All right. So moved. Commission requests and ideas for discussion. Well, let me just reinstate what I just said. Yeah The community seems to be in favor of adding this and if we can also look to open spaces for pickleball courts It's been a hot priority too. So good suggestion Do we have any other commissioner requests or ideas? No, I think it's a good one. We're hearing about that. Really good. Yeah. I mean, Boyle Park had the repainting, which is fabulous, but you can't play without being in class, right? There's no way to play around here. I have a quick question about, did you mention the updates to the stage in Old Mill and was it like some eaglescouts that we're going to do the seeding? Correct. Okay, cool. Yep. Great. Then I don't have a request. Yeah, I got it. Should it occur at the end of this month? Nice. Is there any other requests? Commission? No. Okay. One question for you, Mark. I'm sorry. But you talked about doing like an open tour of locations in park and just for looking at open spaces for future projects and ideas or just in general. The tour I'm doing with Supervisor Zanko-Domara is just to review the state of the parks. Gotcha. I bet you could get an invite. Is there an annual state of the parks address that you will then give us? I know. I know, like you can take a tour with you. Could we have an outing? You have kind of done it. You've done playgrounds and parks for multiple times. Okay. If there's no other. I just want to say one little follow up on what you just said about the tour tomorrow. Just do Chris and Frank down at the Boyle Park Tennis Courts know that you're doing that walk through the park tomorrow. This might be nice to let them know if you're going to be walking through the parks to talk about the parks. So you're going to be there and approximately when in case they want to raise anything with you. Bernard, I else on the minimum. Instead of filtering it through me all the time. Good. All areas. Okay. If there's nothing else, I adjourn the meeting.