This meeting is being recorded. Good morning. This is the Council's April monthly meeting. The preceding this morning is a hybrid meeting which is held in person and via WebEx teleconference. It is also available to the public via video stream online at the county council website. At this time I will do a roll call of our council members. Dr. Jones. Ms. Rigby. Good morning. Good morning everyone. Good morning, Dr. Jones. This is Kristi Annarigdi. I am here. Perfect. Thank you. And Ms. Young. Here. Great. Mr. Youngman is not able to join us, but we do have a quorum. And we will now proceed with our agenda. We have two main items today, a bond rating update from our finance department, and then Banachar Space Renovation from our facilities soon to be department of general services. But Mr. Hila, would you please join us? Good morning, Kansas chairwash and council members. I'm Ruff you Hila. Good morning. Good morning, Kansas chairwashed and council members. I'm Ruff you, Healer. Good morning. Good morning. And you have Angela with you? Yes. I do have Angela Price with me. Go ahead. Hi, Angela Price. I'll be your director of finance. Nice to see you both this morning. And thank you for coming back. We actually had asked you to attend a prior monthly meeting to go over some of the information that was presented in pursuit of our Since acquired triple a bond ratings because although I as chair and whoever's chair in a given year participates in that presentation The rest of the council members do not get the benefit of that and so if you are prepared Mr H, can you just give a brief rundown of what that looked like? I sure. I know the last time we had a brief presentation, but I don't think we need that so much has happened, but I can give you a general overview of the bone rate process. For the bone rate, of course, is the county executive's presentation to the written agencies just demonstrating the county's fiscal picture to them so that we can retain our triple A. There are quite a few criteria that goes into it, and we cover all of that through the written agencies. And being in the Tripoli County for 28 consecutive years is a huge accomplishment. And like I tell the team every time and the county executive is fully aware because your Tripoli is not a guarantee you are going to receive it in this year. And so you have to, once you're on top, there's no way as to go but down. So remain on top is harder than getting there. And so we strive every year to do that. And of course, I think the presentation of the budget from the county executive equality demonstrated that again that we are set up to make sure that we're taking our trip away. In the presentation, we include, because the written agency's presentation is not just on financials, it's basically everything that we do in the county to ensure our success, which is both financial, and making sure that our communities is thriving. And so in the presentation, it's led by, of course, the county executive, and then he has always make sure that I think all county executive has done that to make sure that they invite the council chair to be present. And I think the reason for that is one to demonstrate to the written agencies what how county stands for, that we do collaborate That yes, of course, the process is always gonna be kosher, but we always have, we offer coming together to make sure that we mean we do well and do right by our citizens. So we equally include, of course, a CAO who runs the county county and we include a chief of staff and myself, Angie my deputy and the budget administrator, Dr. Son, is included because she talks about the budget. We include EDA, which is Jennifer Jones. EDA is a big part of what we do because we talk about our businesses and all, how they attract businesses, retain businesses, grow businesses. And I think all that goes well in letting them know how diversify we are as an economy. And then I call it the my debt bureau chief, Cholvoo, and of course our written agencies, our financial advisor, Davenport, which is a gender decisan, and whoever their partner is, we try to make sure that we cover everything. And our FA actually, we're so fortunate that Davenport, both of our FA's have been work for both credit rate agencies. Jennifer was with Moody's and I think both of them were with Moody's. Joe Messy was equally with Moody's before the Moody Davenport. So they have a huge understanding of what the rate agencies are looking for and that's big for us. Number one, I think we all know is always the phone balance. And I know that is kind of a big one. And we have each other requirement of 7% of past years expenditures. And I think over the years, we realized that they kept calling that at 7% for 3% we didn't meet that goal. Most 3% were over a 10% fact that most of them require 15% I think that's the lowest. And so since we were way below and I think we made a decision a year ago to create a policy reserve of 3%. And that to make sure that we can show to the written agencies that we are doing everything we can to make sure that we have enough reserve to meet whatever the situations might be. We only talk about unemployment and we are so fortunate in Howard County that we have the lowest unemployment in the state. I think we are probably less than 3%. Whereas the country was around 4% and the state is slightly over 3. So we talk about that and they look at that and say, yes, of course we call it reference what is currently going on. We've been spending too much time this last year, but it's been, we've talked about it before. And I think years ago during sequestration, I think that was almost 11 or 12 years ago now, not even longer. Moody's put us on watch, not because we did anything wrong, because we were close to the federal government. And since the federal government couldn't get the out-together when the government shot down, they said we're going to put us in a watch because they believe we were going to affect us. And we equally have been hearing that. But this last time around, we've been able to show them that we can see our track record. Anytime there is a dire situation, both the county executive and the council are able to come together to resolve whatever the issues are. And the seniors, we've had budget cuts media because we knew revenue was going to be short. And as we can see from this year's budget, we've done a lot to demonstrate that we want to retain our AAA. We want to make sure that we're doing right by our citizens, that we are not increasing taxes because we have the power. No, that's not our goal. The goal is to try and trim our expenditures to meet our anticipated revenues. And that goes really, really well with them. One of the other things they equally look into is our pension and our pension is well-funded. They equally look at OPEP. OPEP is where we are we are we are behind we are behind some counties in Maryland however the data because in our op-app we include the school system which has 66% of our op-app liability but we found it. It's not a school system. So we found it every year but for most of our counties they do not include the school system. And so if we took the school system out it would definitely be over 60%. But that was a decision that was made years ago that we would do that because we want our school staff to have a head plan once they retire. And the county has taken upon the said that we're going to turn fund fund that. So that is a concern. They raised it and we've been able to demonstrate that we're doing everything we can. We are putting a recurring revenue there and we're equally funding it through some other pay go funding every year. I think the last few years, we fund if I think a close million, you have a slightly over 11 million dollars every year. And one of the things that we explained to them as well is that RITAR is head care is not paid from the trust. RITAR is head care is paid through our head fund. So all we're doing is that we are putting money to us that liability to pay down. So yes, you could pay from the trust like we do for for pension, but that was a determination that until we believe that trust is sufficient enough and safe, so abstaining enough, we are not going to do that because if we start paying from that, then it's going to be a problem. We will never be able to bring down those liability. And then they call it look at our other fish cost. That's every single and why they do not review the 10% debt policy is no longer one of their criteria for all three. It's no longer one of the criteria as they use. However, it is part of our debt policy. So of course, the debt policy that was approved by the council. And so they look at what their criteria is or are and then they look at what your policy states. So if you deviate from your policy, you have to explain why you're deviating. And so we make sure that we've always been on that 10% yes we've gone over 10% a few I think two or three years and the reason was the courthouse if you three quarters that we built and we anticipated that because we knew what's going to occur and we told them before it happened and we've given me plan of how we're going to bring it down once that happened and we're very happy that it's seen that the trajectory has really come down. It's not under 10 percent, which is something that we review. I think that covers everything. Of course, I've been in the county now, at least I've been in government for 18 years. and since I joined the county in 2007, Howard County has been amongst the top 15 highest medium income. When I joined 2007, there were three counties in Maryland. And the last seven, eight years, there have been only one Howard County. No, it's because of the county executive and the county council does, because you all make the decision that we implement. If the decision is not made properly, there's nothing for us to implement. I would like to take full credit for that, but I can't. Because this stuff was a budget process. So Dr. Sohn does a fantastic job of making sure that the vision of the county executive and all are putting the budget, of course, with the council and your approval, you ask questions and once that is approved, that's where we come in. And we make sure that we do it, we cut it out based on all the rules and regulations that we follow. And we've been, we've had the entire county has been supporting us, so we're very grateful to everyone, the support of the county executive, the administration, and of course the council and the entire staff of the county to make our job a little bit easier. So we're very proud of that. That we've retained the AAA for 28 consecutive years and we've equally received our work from GFOA for 48 consecutive years. So next year, I'd say Nuclewood will be our fifth year, which not in very many counties can do that. There are over 3,300 counties and less than half are received at GFOA, are worth for what we call triple-crana, which. We have the budget award. We have the Act for award. And then we equally have the popular annual financial report that we started I think four years ago also now. So that three give us what they call triple A. So we're very proud of that. And the red need is actually like that actually like that to show that GFO has been instrumental. In fact, the way instrumental in creating the gasp, which is a government who has a county standards board. And so because they realize that the financial account is standards but fast be, did not do anything for government we work in government or I can't do our accounting government is completely different from the private sector. So hence came our gasp which both are governed by a differential accounting there foundation which is FIF. So we're very proud that we do all of this. I think those would conclude my remarks. Angie, I don't know if you have expressed anything to add. And Dr. Son is online because I know she does a lot in terms of how we plan. We talk about SAC, the Spending Affiliability Advisory Committee's inputs in how we frame our budget. And the report is presented to both the county executive and to the county council. So we love that we have citizens who are interested in living here, residents that are willing to do that to help us out. So Dr. Sohn, Ms. Price, and if you have anything to add. I don't have anything to add. I think it comes with a very comprehensive, like, thank you. You have a reminder? Yes, I do. Well, the GFOA, what is that, Stempor? Go up there to finance all the staff. OK. So association. And I think you told us what all the other abbreviations for FAM. Okay. Council members, I'm going to ask maybe two process questions and then I'm happy to turn it over to anyone else or not. But so the big question I have about the bond reading process is what is the benefit that that highest reading confers to the county? OK. I skipped that for purpose because I wanted the question to come up because we can borrow at a very low interest rate. Right now, you've heard us talk about when we model our projections, we use 4. we use 40.5% is reasonable because that's what folks who are not 3.0. That's most weird default most times but ours has always been under 4. In fact we've been around 3.5 and there were times where interest rate was really low and we got it for two or less. If you are not triple A, you don't get that. And like the financials were causing the spread between triple A and double A could be up to times 200 basis points, which is about between one and two percent. And so that is huge. I I tell you, my market will contrast, and it's not that wide, but you borrow at a lower rate. And that is huge, because if we borrow at a higher rate, that's less money because we're not paying higher debt service, less money for everyone in the county, which includes county departments, the school systems, public safety, everything. So that's why it is important that we retain that trip away so we can borrow at a very low rate. So like having your own credit, if you have a 700 and a boat, their wallet banks are always willing to negotiate with you, but if you are 60 a.m. below you whatever whatever they have because you are not credit This you has not credit worthy so they are taking a higher percentage of the risk so for triple it we have less risk Okay, and how how does that best rate compared to other Programs like a federal loan like the with your loan that's at issue in the safe and sound plan for old elicid city Well those loans are pretty cheap But the competition to get it is high so you have to apply for it They review it and they could turn you down. It's based on funds availability for most of those programs I think the ones we're looking at now, it could be one percent, which you won't get anywhere else, but it's limited. They have a limit for you. So for WIFI, when we do the WIFI alone, we got a 3.17 percent. So that was cheap because then we were borrowing money out, I think, 3. Okay. So you can see that's a huge spread and the nice part about that was we locked that in five years ago or four years ago now. They asked us to lock it in even though we've not closed officially but we locked in that rate. And they said if I tell you we're going to close with me first time we draw, if the rates fall, we could come back and renegotiate the rates. However, if the rates go up, they won't be telling us that they're going to increase our rates. So we locked in because the rates are over three and a half. So we locked in the rate at 3.17 because we've asked for our first So we've closed on those documents now. Okay. Are there other sizable? I mean, that's the biggest loan program that I know of other than just funding. We have a few from the state, but they're small amounts, $5 million, $20, $15 million, but they are equally cheap. Some, it depends, some of them come from directly from the state, some are passed through from the state, but you have to apply for it and you don't know when you're going to get it till almost a year later. So the best bet is still for us to plan using bonds which is taxes and bonds and we know that is huge so not to do any sales but we all loveESM bonds. And we know that is huge, so not to do any sales, but we all love TACESM bonds because they are cheaper and taxable bonds. TACESM bonds are probably 20 to 30 basis points higher that TACESM, so it means we can borrow lower because it's TACESM. But the air conditions that goes with it and we fall within, we meet all those requirements because there are public buildings and whatever we do, roads is public road. So we've, so happened to be on the executive board of GFOA and we've been pushing that Congress to make sure we retain that they don't touch the taxes and bonds. So, just say a speech to let our federal officials know that please, whatever they can do to retain the taxable municipal bonds is critical. Because he allows counties, states, and local governments to to borrow the lower rate to fund public facilities. Thank you. How about P3s, like the court house? What would be the, if we converted that payment into a normal debt service, what would the interest rate be on that? Is that a calculation that you have? Well, P3, we did kind of two processes because it's a public private partnership. So what we did is we did issue bonds, issued $75 million and the rest was carried on by the group that built the P3 because that's the partnership. So they bought their money and the race they got is way higher than we will ever get. Because I'll probably say, I don't want to say half, but it's way because they don't have a taxing power. So they have to have a revenue stream. We have a taxing authority. So our revenue streams are guaranteed. So they've all money. And so what we end up doing is that we have any debt service and we now are giving them because I think they took a loan off almost that close to half. So at the our we are paying them what we call availability payment. So I don't know if we can change that to just pure bonds. We'll have to check with all our bone counsel to see how that transaction can happen. But I imagine having me doing this now is all I've done my entire life. So I don't think it's going to be cheap. Right now, it's the best of both worlds for it because that building has to be maintained for the next 30 years. So when we take it, take over that building in 30 years. When the handed over to us, it's going to be just as new. That's the requirement. And if the building is not, therefore, or used, there's a cost on them. They'll have to pay us. So which I hear the conversation every day, we talk about repairs and reserve for maintaining stuff in government. That's one of the things that we are not known to do very well, not because we don't want to, because the demand on our phones are huge. You can't be, we always postpone, we have deferred's everywhere. We have it in our building. This building is approximately 15 years old, but it doesn't look like it. It looks like 20-25, because we have to defer the maintenance, because we have more needs. Whereas with the P3, we need those incoming in question at all because that's the agreement you have to maintain it. Okay, so if I understood that right, the private side of the P3 agreement financed about half of the cost of construction design, all of the pre-occupancy stuff and because they're not a tax exempt authority, the rates that they pay on that half of financing is much higher than we would pay as a municipality with a triple-aid bond rating. Oh, yes. OK. OK. I can't see anyone. And I'm checking my phone if you want to text me or Ms. Herod. I'm not, I don't have a computer because I don't want to. So we have Dr. J. Good morning. Does anyone have a, that's our vaccine. I don't know what the best mechanism is for you guys to say I'd like to ask a question. But I'm a young has raised her hand in the web. Okay. All right. Okay, go ahead Dr. Jones. Okay, thank you. Miners with question. I just wanted to go ahead, Dr. Jones. Okay. Go ahead, Dr. Jones. Yeah, mine isn't okay. Thank you. Mine isn't a question. I just wanted to say thank you so much to Mr. Aguile, Dr. Sun, all the staff that crunched the numbers, getting AAA bond rating. I think it's what like the 30th year in a row or something, some crazy streak that we We have, it helps us save money and it's great all around. So thank you guys again. Appreciate it. You're welcome. Thank you, Dr. Jones. Miss Young. Mr. Healy, I just had a question about the information that you were giving about pensions, teacher pensions, and how we recognize those. It was my understanding that all of the local jurisdictions had to take on a teacher pension liability a few decades ago, I guess. And what you said was that we are the only, or one of the few, or of the local jurisdictions that recognize that pension liability for our public school teachers when we report to the credit rating agencies or did I misunderstand that? If you could go back to the patient, I think that I would appreciate that. I sure. Yes, I would say you missed from the student. What I said, I didn't talk about patient. I talked about OPE, which is other patient. The healthcare. Yes, the healthcare. I think you were talking about the healthcare. Okay. So that is for retirees, once they retire, the healthcare for retirees. And that is what we call OPEP. So that's the one that we are currently allowed to do. Not patient, the schools are taking care of their actual. Not patients. Yes. Okay. All right. And are we the only county that carries retiree health care for our school district? We are not the only one saying for the jurisdictions that we compare ourselves to in Maryland, the others, some of them do not. That is not all clear. Some of them do it the way we do it. They carry it. So is it mixed? I've been back to your statement about us showing that liability in our statements. And I think you said that there were other jurisdictions that do carry that viability, but they don't show them in their statements when they're going to the credit rating agencies. No, everybody has to show open liability on their statements. Is the requirement of our county standards. Uh, so you can escape that. Uh, what I was referencing was the way we treat, uh, op-able is slightly different from how some other jurisdictions treated. Some other jurisdictions allow the schools, the schools to account for their, uh, op-able ability, which now reflects on their books, but it stays equally on the books of the school system. So when you look at their open funding, their ratio is higher, their funding ratio is way higher, like for hours, because hours we carry both all the company units in the county. We carry that on our books alone. Yes, we give them of money. We have a lot of money. We have a lot of money. We have a lot of money. We have a lot of money. We have a lot of money. We have a lot of money. We have a lot of money. We have a lot of money. We have a lot of money. We have a lot of money. directly to the school district so that it isn't reflected as a liability on the county. It is always going to show up on the county's books. It's just that Wendy's they explained their own person because when you have just to go back, when you have component units like in Maryland, all school systems are part of the county. They are a component unit of the county. So whatever the allowabilities are, equally goes on your books. Like when you look at our aqua, the school system financial is reflected on our aqua. It is the it is the our county standards requirement. We must show all of that. So we do show it. It's just that when you are showing your funding ratio, because you have to explain the way you're paying for, that they do differently. So it's a mixed. We carry all the liability on our books, which Dr. Son has tried to explain most times to say, we pay of our open, open, open, open liability contribution. 66% is for our school system. And so only 34 belongs to the county and the other component units. So they are the largest because they have the largest employee. So we carry that. Whereas the other school system, how about the fund them? I don't know. I will be speculating if I do say this, how they are funding it because I've not reviewed their financial statement and I don't want to speculate because I know I will be wrong if I do. How do you fund it? I don't know. by just noted on the press now books are far defunded. So that that percentage. I don't know, but I just noted what carried on there. Persona books are far different. So that that percentage just really reflects the number of employees. The school system has 10,000 employees and the county has around 3,000 or 3,400. It depends. I'm not an archery. So I can't speculate how the calculated but I do know there are quite a few factors that go into it. I can ask the actuality tell us how they what the the rationale that they look into or the criteria that they put together but I know a lot goes into it. They look at when you are retired, they look at debt ratio and all of that. How long is this supposed to be alive? And we know that people are living longer. So all of that is, is including the actual calculations. So I don't have those facts. I'm not, I don't want to speculate on facts that I have not knowledge about. Okay, thank you. Mr. Igby, do you have any questions? No, I do not. I really just appreciate Mr. Hela. He's I feel like it's been a long seven years of education on bond process because it's not something that your average person coming in knows and would understand. So I'd both appreciate his education for us and also for the community. Thanks. I agree. And I had one other question about the bond processes, which is when does that whole process start for a given year? I mean, I as the chair sit in on that last presentation and at that point the rating agencies are talking about coming back with a decision within days. So I'm not thinking, oh, well, they heard our presentation and then they're very convinced and so, you know, this is going to happen. By that time I figure, right, the decision is largely made and most of of their analysis has been completed. But when does that analysis begin? For them, I don't know when it begins, but I do know they follow everything. And I'm sure they probably will be listening to some of your monthly meetings. So it's your round? Oh, yeah, right. Because they assigned people to jurisdictions. And so and those are the areas of focus. And so they look at all the council meetings and all our conversation, theer of our financials that we published. For us, we don't start the process till I would say December but we internally start looking at the timeframe. When should we go and then we meet with the administration to ask them when the county executive would like to have the written agencies presentation done. And we're giving a few dates, and once he confirms when, then we start notifying the written agency, because we have to ask for the availability. And that's when I call it reach out to the council chair as well, they say, these are dates we have, which one is more convenient for the council chair, so we can make sure that all of them are aligned and that's when we set our process and we start putting the work together and the team just work and once we have a draft of what we think the presentation looks like based on the directive of the administration is well in our start to finalize and of course I start sharing with the council chair of what the presentations will look like. Okay, so that presentation is really the only direct communication back and forth with those reading agencies? Yes, but the review before that, we, one of the things I should have mentioned is that they ask that the written agency presentation and all the documents we have should be submitted to them a week ahead of that presentation. So because they want to review it, they want to review the financials. If I think they are probably the only folks that know that actually look at the aqua and the budget book. So when they ask questions, if you notice some of the questions they ask, it's not from the presentation. That shows you they've actually looked at the aqua. If you get all the information from there, they review the budget book. So questions they ask, they don't do their homework. And they do that all year round. And that's why when you hear when they tell you, tell you, well, you guys are always demonstrating that you're AAA, which one or two say, again, is a good testament that we are doing what we're supposed to. Because they watch, I think, one of the things I know they do a lot of is that they follow the budget process. Because they know for government, especially both states and local, is the budget process that sets the tone. That is the appropriation. That's what we use. And so, either the city process, and once that is done, now they are just from joint. Are you following what the Council and the County Executive are approved? And that's where we are coming in to say, yes, we are doing that. Here's our reporting reporting and this is how we met the goals. And then look, did you ever spend, did you have a surplus, or did you have a deficit? And we do all of that so they look at it through the budget process. Because you've seen our times when we use Pay Go funding. The actual issue is that we are doing is even though it's one time that the recording revenue is meeting the recording costs but there's one time that we add that is not going to be happening the future years it there's no money and so they look at all of that and they look at the financials to see okay you did everything you were supposed to and you manage and no matter the economy downtown I wish you had you you've heard or say, even when it rained, huge floods, recession, everything, we've never touched your rain in the front. We'd like to hear that. And I think you heard us in the last time we talked, we mentioned that the state, the government mentioned that they would be using their phone balance, and for his judges count equally said, he immediately put them on negative watch. They've not done it yet. He just mentioned that they know they are going to be struggling when they come with their process, their budget. Just mentioning or feeding at all, they read, if all three put them on negative watch, and say, hey, if you are going to use it, we are watching you. And it's not up. It's to bring you down. So, and of course, the state was able to balance his budget through passing some of the cost to us, to counties and all. And hopefully they will take them off watch. The ones that put you on, you don't come off easily. They have to review to see that they're satisfied that what you mentioned you've avoided it. And that's always the challenge, which I know you've asked, when is it when is it really good? Honestly, we don't know. We've asked the agencies that, they tell us, well, why you really need it. But when you do, they didn't give for it. So I think what we want to do, the true picture we get for them is do not touch your child's requirement. And if you do, it's a problem for us. I think that's all we get for me. OK. OK, I'm going to keep going, Council Members, unless you you let me or Michelle know you have a question. I wanted to it substance wise of the slides on the on the bigger presentation. It's number 18. It's one called general fund. It was also included in the preview that we got last month. Yes. So it's out there and available to discuss, right? Sure. The shocking thing to me about this, and I've been trying to kind of land in the same place and have been collecting my actors and pulling from the right charts, I think, those two bottom rows, which show a total fun balance from fiscal year 20 to fiscal year 24 more than doubling from 208 million to 475 million, right? Yes. That's what that's showing. And so right now this chart, right? I mean, I can find those 36, 531 and 475 475 304 my actor. Yes. Page 87. Yes. That's 32% percent of our current general fund expenditures, right? Yes. And so we talked either during or after that presentation you and I. Healy, that at least one of those bond rating agencies was thinking about or had already decided to change what it wanted to see its triple A. Juristictions have in that fund balance that differed from the 7% historically we've been carrying or the 10% that we've been shooting for. And that number was now in that realm of 30%. Is that right? Yes, and that would be Moody's. That Tripoli ratio is now 35% or higher. Moody's? Yeah, Moody's,. And the other two, where are they? The other two, I think 15, 1 is 15 and I have to put the other one out. But I'll get back to you. I know 1 is 15 and 1 is slightly higher but Mo but Moody is now the one that is, I want to 30%. So I think one is 15,000 lowest one now. So which is a big challenge. Yeah. And so the increase here, this is not by, it's no surprising for us because if you listen to the budget process, this past few years, especially during the pandemic, we said it. And I know Dr. Son mentioned it that we all anticipated a huge deficit, especially Maryland. It did not happen. In fact, we saw a surplus because of the fair drive infusion of funding. And so these surpluses we anticipated, but we know we can counter them going forward. We have the cares at, they give us money, and the upper fund, the CLRF, it was huge, almost 62 million dollars that we are spending down. So we had this huge influx of cash. And so it hept. But so hence, we have this huge reserve that you are seeing. But all that is going to, as we are beginning to see now, is beginning to drop. Because it's drying up. We are not getting any Fedra. Fedra one is even bigger. It's a bigger issue. And so we know that is not going to happen. We are not going to sustain it. So we are going to end up relying on our recording revenues, our projections, and then making sure that our expenditures are aligned with that. Because by law, we have to have a balanced budget. State and local government have to have a balanced budget. We didn't know that Moody's was going to increase its percentage to above 30%. No. When did we found that out in the course of this bond rating process? Yes, because what we do is that, like you asked, when does this start? So when we are starting the process, we get our information from them because they came up with their new methodology last year. And so we got that and that's when we knew it was gonna be 35% or higher. And so, but because we are three-poly-rated county and we are now below the Apolyodar factors, what they call nudges, to keep you there because of all the stuff you do and one of them is this question that you are asking, that you are knowledgeable about what is happening and that you are doing everything within your power, within your authority, that makes sure that you do not fall below your setting range. It doesn't mean they are not going to question it, it doesn't mean they are not going to call it out and when you look at their press releases, they actually mention those. They say, what would cost a downgrade? And when you ask them, what would cost an upgrade? They say there's nothing because you already are up. But now they give you all the stuff that you can do that will cost a downgrade. One, if you can keep your phone balance, your reserve, to a level where they feel they are comfortable, that is an issue. So that if you're meeting the requirement of course that's an issue unless it's low. So what you do is that you have to demonstrate to them if you're ever below like we are 32 to say this is what we're doing and you was going to happen but it's we're going to be doing to make sure that we try and keep it there. It's a challenge for us, because when there's a revenue short for what do you do, something is going to give. But they want you to make sure that you're prepared for it, you anticipate it, and that it is part of your planning process. And then if it dips, does your explanation that you give them? Does it mean with the reality? And if it doesn't, that might exactly lead to it, down great. And that's the challenge that we face. So for us, even though I said the process starts in December, for us is actually all year round, because we know when we are doing our quarterly financials, we have to see, are there areas that we need to be worried about? And then when the budget process starts and we are looking at the cost to complete are there areas we should be worried about you know all of that goes into the planning to make sure that we are prepared to answer any questions that they may have because I think one of the most important things I believe for a state and local government is to keep the rating as high as possible so it can borrow less without a lower rate so you can do more. That's really the goal. If you have if you can borrow less you can spend a little bit more on other projects and activities. Okay but in our case you know for a county of our size and of our expenditure, that means sitting on half a billion dollars worth of cash approximately, right? There has to be a breaking point. Isn't there where we say we can now just pay and cash? I don't need a loan. I don't need I don't need to finance this because I have half a billion dollars in cash. So you can, you know, we're going to sit out this period in time where Moody's is requiring us to have 32% in, you know, I'm not saying it's now. I obviously have no idea when it is, but I have to believe that there would be a time where we'd say, you know, we're going to, we're we're going to go ahead and decline to pursue that triple A rating if we have to have. I mean, we're not going to keep 80% of our expenditures in cash. Are we? I mean, like, what, we're how close are we to that? Or what, what's the answer to that? I'm not sure how I play answer for you, but I know we already, because when they do read the bond reading, they are not reading you on just your current year, they are reading you on your prior issues that you've had. And we've had, we have bonds now, this year and I, it's going to be all issue this year. It's for 20 years, for general obligation bonds, and for Metro, and I know Mr. Cupid is behind me DPW for his warranted sewer at 30 years. So we now have a 30 year bond online so when they give you the reading they are equally reading all of those past years to say you are still good for it you are still a triple a triple a that's why you see the reference that this year is triple A and all other preceding years. So they are reaffirming those triple A and that's what makes it interesting. So if you're going to stop one year, I don't know what that impact would be. I'll have to to chat with our FNC. What are the risks that we have? Because we know we are locked in with them for 30 years. Because one, one of the things that we don't want to happen is to create a panic within the investors' investment community. That how a county is no longer interested in getting ready, which means all the bonds are our standard that we issued at their risk. because's that will create panic and it's not something that I don't think we've actually thought about. So that's what I said. I can give you a straight answer. Sure. Well, yes, Mr. Rigby has a question when you have to. Oh good. Let me follow up on that and then we'll get to you. A given year's bond rating though affects whatever bonds we issue in that given year, right? And so, you know, if the spending affordability committee or the executive decides otherwise, is somewhere around, you know, what's $55 to $100 million in the six years I've been here? 7, right? So again, 55 to 100 million versus 4 million in the six years I've been here seven right so again 55 to a hundred million versus 475 in the bank you're just I would assume like at 85% or 80 we would just say see you next year. No, you're just not gonna get me over It just seems crazy to me. Well, it seems crazy to me because we didn't know that that was going to be their requirement going forward. We didn't, so we accidentally almost got to their, three times requirement for fun balance. Yeah, I know in our world, one of the things we ask folks to do when our vice folks isocuses what I tell them is you have at least three to six months What of your expenditures in cash saved somewhere so in case Life happens that you have to reserve So for us in personal life. Yes, life does happen at times and you have to do that It's just that for us as an entity, with the red agencies, they don't see life happening. And that's how we see it. Because if it does and you do touch it, there's a repercussion when you do that. If you look 35% is within that. Three to six months. Yes. And six months would be 50%. Yes. Six months will be 50%. Exactly. So they are looking at the line of close up to three months. I think for us, if you have less than that, what they like to throw in, this is not related to how accounting, because it's never been an issue. But I do know that the auditing work which I missed the actual listening is one of the things that you're asking now that local government, whatever, going to a certain level of an issue, then a local town went bankrupt and that became an issue. So now the Auditist and the United States does not include going to the consane, check on all states and local governments. It's never been an issue. So it's something that the auditors equally look at when they are reviewing during their audit. It's their risk here and they have to if they see it documented, the written ages speak that. That's where they start their questioning from. So even though they have their criteria, they have other factors that is outside of their criteria that they equally review. Your after is one and being an unmodified opinion is your start. It's not the end, but it's your start. It's kind of busy that, yeah, you already told said you're doing fine financially. Now let's dig deeper. What are the other issues? Which is kind of the question you're asking now. How does the sausage be made? I think that's the analogy I'll use. Okay, all right, thank you. Mr. Rigby. Thank you. Well, I was wondering if Mr. Helae, if you could touch on because we're in this discussion around reserves and making sure that we are meeting at a minimum six month threshold. We almost have an outside reliance just because of our location to the federal government. It almost feels especially now like we're a factory town except that the factory is the federal government. You know, how are the grading agencies looking at the financial instability at the federal level, the comments about, you know, what he wants to do to the Fed and the head of the Fed and this interference. How are they looking at the, is there any discussion about the overall rating of the country that we're in, but they're also in, but then also what those ripple effects will be to us as someone who has so many people who work for the federal government or contracted the federal government who rely on that stability and not sort of fast with flash changes from the executive administration. I have no head. The witnesses have any conversation yet. But I was scheduled to attend one of their webinars, but I think we had something at the council. So there was a conflict. So of course, the job is more important than you hear in that first. But I'm sure I'll be hearing from from them because we've been talking about what can be presented to us. I think very much you have to be a conversation with some of them just to find out what are they looking at. I do know when we issued our refunded our build America bonds, which was two weeks after we issued our geo bonds, the one we had the credit rating, we did go to two of the, uh, written agencies to get some information. Uh, we didn't want to all three because we are not having any presentation. We're just going to send the documents. We just reviewed some of the questions was, how are you going to be dealing with the federal, uh, uh, uh, workforce adoption? A nice place, like we dealt with everything as we don't know what the impact is going to be yet. It's too early to tell. But our county is well prepared. Our county executive has been before from seeing what can we do to help our Fedra workers. So all of that, I was asked my nation. And so we've no had yet. And I know, of course, the federation is a bank. The president has to be careful because the market has been getting some really a beating. And now we are getting close to the bear market. So we have to see something about recession. And so we see how the marketing reacts well yesterday. So we don't know what that is. And I know all the written agencies now are going to be reviewing. Almost all of them are having the economists make projections. Look at it and see what impact these have on counties like ours. So we just have to monitor and once you get more information, we definitely will bring it to you. But if we can see if we can bring any of them to come talk to you, I know they are willing to always come chat because it's your job. You know, a letter of issues are worried. So knowing, I think, just being here does show the the severeness of the issue that you are putting to it that it matters. And we can ask for more. And so we'll reach out and then ask my FA to see what are they doing there, why do they release yet? That we can probably send your way. So I mean, it's really big. We see if we can find something that we can send to all council members based on what has been going on, what they are taking. I think your 14th part, why is very difficult for them to come up with one is that it changes every day. And so, right, difficult to know. Okay, I appreciate that. And I mean, and I think there's also this other knock on Jesus. Okay, well, we lose federal project support, right? Like transportation alternative projects. That funding comes from the federal government through the state to our biking pad projects. And then goes out to local contractors here and that also stimulates our local economy. So I guess, I mean, I'm just really in this space where I'm very concerned about what the ripples are, but it's like we don't know how big the rock is that's thrown into the pond. But I appreciate that you guys are keeping an eye on it and are ready to act and take action to stabilize sort of our local economy, our government, protect our resources and make sure that even with the instability around us that we can be as stable as possible. Thank you. Dr. Jones or Miss Young, do you have any questions? No, I don't have any further questions. Okay. Okay. Pause your reserve and rainy day fund are both included in that general fund balance. Okay. Okay, that was my last question. Thank you both for coming and going through that with us. Thank you, Flavins. Alright. Alright, next up we have Bannecker Space Renovation. And Ms. Walch, just in addition to the folks in the room, we also have Jason Lapp from Washington Professional Services. I'm just providing type of a technical answers to questions. Okay, thank you. So in the room we have Director Cabete from Department of Public Works. Zach, I'm back. I'm not going to get your title right. Zach, I'll be Chief of the Bureau of Facilities. Okay. And Sharon, I'll wash the Chief of the Bureau of Facilities. And Zach will introduce our consultants who do have a presentation for you regarding the Bannecker Room. Okay, perfect. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Good morning and thanks for taking the time to meet with us today. So with us this morning from Michael Graves, we have Christa Karrigan and Bill Brown, who have are both architects and have been working with us to plan some renovations to the Banner Curve room. I know we've been talking about this for some time over the last few years and so we're excited to bring this to fruition today and show you where we are. Generally, I'll let Chris to go through kind of where they are with the designs, but we've tried to make some reasonable modifications without a wholesale reconfiguration to the room to increase the size of the dies to improve the sight lines and to generally improve the room for the virtual and hybrid meetings that have become much more prevalent since it was originally conceived. And so we have a presentation of design concepts as well as some finished samples to share in person. And we can leave the finished samples behind as well for the members who are not present if they wish to see them in person. We hope that our presentation today will engage enough discussion for us to be able to move forward with a concept and prepare construction documents for that solution and we'll be working with our colleagues at Washington professional on the AV upgrades that would be required to support the concept that we proceed with. Timeline-wise, we envision that we would spend the next couple of months completing the construction documents, working through the design again with our partners at Washington Professional and DTCS, and then prepare this project for construction in the winter months, perhaps during the December recess of the council. We haven't quite gotten far enough to understand specifically how long the work would take, but we're estimating, let's just say hypothetically, at least a month that the room would be out of commission. So with that, I'll turn it over to Krista to run through her presentation and I know we've shared a couple of PDFs with the team here. Yes, so I saw that we had a there's an 18 slide one, if 27 slide one, which I would both have bigger one. Sure, round it all. There we go. Hi everyone. My name is Christa Karegan. I'm a principal and partner at Michael Graves' Architecture. I am also a Elligot City resident. So it's really a true pleasure to be here. We're excited to present some design ideas for the Bannaker Room renovation. And they are just that. They are ideas. We're at the concept design stage in the project. So we're very open to your thoughts and suggestions for the design. Nothing has been fixed. As Zach mentioned, we did bring some samples of materials, hard samples. Sometimes it's easier to see the actual physical sample. But we have photo realistic renderings for those that are watching virtually and that you can view afterwards as a reference to understand what the design will feel like in three dimensions. Okay, going, can we have you up until you mark just a little bit closer? Thanks a lot. Is that better? Yeah. Okay, great. So, Isaiah, thank you for pulling up the presentation. I know that the text may be a little bit small on the screen. I'll try to describe as best as I can. The scope that you all are more familiar than anyone, probably, with this room. So, as Zach mentioned, the goal of the project is to give more room at the front, Dias, as well as upgrade AVIT in relationship to the new Dias. And we're looking at a few other finish and material and lighting changes as well. So the drawing that you're looking at and the screen is the demolition drawings. And the key things to note here are just that the walls, the knee walls, we call them, the shorter walls, on either side of the existing dius will come down in order to and the existing dius itself will come down in order to make room for a new larger expanded dius. Also, we're planning for the backdrop to remain the existing Howard County logo and the fabric panels that are there as a fairly neutral backdrop to the new dius they can stay. I will note that the dius platform now is not ADA accessible because there is a step. So part of our design solution is to incorporate a ramp. Also we will be slightly shifting the tables that are in front of the dius to make a little bit more room up front, but we plan to be able to still utilize the floor boxes and power and connections in the floor that are there now. And the main goal is to not lose any seating in the audience for the rest of the space. I will also mention that in the ceiling there are long linear fluorescent lights in the center kind of metal panel strip of ceiling. If you all are, you know, I'll show you images of it as well. But the plan is to replace those with new LED lighting and we'll coordinate the exact color temperatures and levels with our AVNIT professionals. Lastly, for the demolition plan, we're showing removal of the existing carpet, replacing with new carpet, to give a refreshed look, something that would be highly durable, and camouflage dirt markings or stains, because it's a high traffic environment, as well as replace some of the perimeter lighting. You have wonderful Howard County artwork around the walls of the room. And we don't want to remove that. But we thought we may be able to replace some of the lighting there. There are box lights that run around the perimeter of the room that we could change to lights that shine both down and up if you want to have more ambient lighting in the space and make the walls lit up a little bit more around the room. That was one concept to help accentuate the art and the rest of the perimeter of the space. So if you go to the neck, thank you. Yeah. So the first concept to show here is the new expanded dius. And again, I know it's small. I think the photo realistic renderings will help, but just so you can understand in plan, there are seats here if you look at the curving Dias at the at the base of the octagon. There's one two three four five six seven eight nine seats. You could you could almost fit a couple more. So that would accommodate seven plus two additional support as Council would determine who those seats would be for and it offers some flexibility if you have guests coming to present. There's also still increased space behind the chairs if you slide the chairs back. There's a little more room up there on the platform as well as storage behind the council members, we've increased the depth of the counter. And that would allow more room for folks to have binders, maybe their own laptop, just additional space in front of you while you're up there. Also, we'll show an image of some of the new tech that's planned, but we understand that it would be helpful for council members to be able to see better from their seat, what is being presented on the projection screens behind them. So we're looking at a solution that incorporates a tablet, sort of monitor in front of you that's connected to your microphone. So you'll always have a visual directly in front of you of what's being presented. In this solution, you can see that there's a ramp going up to the new dius on the left-hand side. So coming directly out of the council spaces, you can ramp up, but there is still separation between the approach and the audience. So there's still kind of the short knee wall idea there. And the knee wall, also the wall in the front of the dius extends all the way to the right hand side where there are steps that lead up to the platform on the other side. Also we'll mention that one of the things the team is looking at is under counter cooling fans at each seat as I know sometimes the temperatures vary sometimes getting a little hotter so you provide ventilation ventilation up at the diias and digital name signs at each one of the seats so you can change the name of whoever's sitting in the seat if positions move around for each presentation. You can go to the next slide. If I can also add we there was a request also have like the queueing so our professional is looking at something similar to what Board of Ed has, which so instead of having to like raise hand and say I have a question, there'll be some kind of queueing of questions. Thank you. Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that. So you can see a little bit more of a close-up view of the floor plan, front elevation, looking directly at the new dius and the side section cut, we call it. One thing I will mention, the platform is a little bit higher because of the ramp needing the correct slope for accessibility. So we think that you won't need to change the height of the logo or the fabric panels. We tried to coordinate the storage underneath as well to account for that new height. And we will still be coordinating with Washington professional to make sure the camera angles will be adjusted appropriately for the slight increase in height. Next slide. So some of the finishes we're looking at, the existing chairs are meant to remain. They have the turquoise color looking at a neutral patterned carpet finish probably in the grays range to again mask any marking, staining dirt, things like of that nature. Also we're looking at wood grain finishes that can match a lot of the wood that's already in the room, for example, on the chair, arms, and in other locations. And then maybe do some sort of accent wood texture. But we also have some other color choices for you to look at, including gray and white with the wood, so you can weigh in on what you like the best. And oh, that's the tablet microphone combo. You can see at the bottom of that slide, as well as what the digital name plate will look like. It is digital, even though it has the look and feel of a actual fixed name plate. So here's the view of this concept. And you can see that it's meant to be a little bit more modern and kind of sleek, long, curving, rounded, that runs basically from one side of the projection screen area to the other. I forgot to mention that we're looking at adding a second projection screen to the right hand side so you have balance for the room. And this is the all wood option, so it matches like I said, the other furniture and the additional knee walls that are in the room with a little bit of texture. In the front, you can see updated carpet pattern, but the actual carpet hasn't been selected yet. Keep going. Okay, and these are just additional views of how that new dios will look. Keep going. Okay. Going. Right. Going. Right. The second color option, same concept, but if you want to move forward, we looked at doing something a little brighter. Keep going, Isaiah. So this is with the white to lighten up the space so the dark wood wouldn't be as dark, give a little bit more brightness to the front of the room and if you keep going there's one more color option which is gray and there's a lot of gray in the room already so it would coordinate with the grays that are there, but still kind of a neutral feel. The materials that we would choose would be very durable. We want this to be a long lasting built-in item. So right now we're looking at it what's called we call like a solid surface material that holds up to wear and tear and abuse really well. On long the front curving section of of theas, we may choose a high grade plastic laminate that matches the solid surface because you don't necessarily need the thickness and weight of the interability of the solid surface wrapping all the way around the front, but it's something the durability we know is very important here. And we'll keep going. There is a second option. We heard that sometimes it's difficult for council members to see each other and we're looking at an option that has a little bit of a tighter curve. It's a little bit tighter also in terms of seating. So there are fewer seats that are available in this option. You could probably fit if you squeezed the seats shown here a little bit tighter, tighter but right now there's seven shown and it would allow each council member to see one another but it is a little more challenging in terms of sight lines if you're going all the way to the side looking over your shoulder to the sides of the room if you're sitting on either end of the tighter curve so if you keep going you can just get a feel for what that would look like in three dimensions. There's the close-up plan still ramp on one side stairs on the other storage in the back, increased room to slide your chair back. And same color palette idea, just a different look up front. There you can see there's a little bit more of undulation. We could play with the heights of the walls, a little bit more to give kind of a stepping feel. It's more, maybe more visual interest at the front with a lot of different kind of angles or geometries there. Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention in the floor in the space on either side of the dius now, there is ventilation, there's HVAC. You can see kind of like a grid in the wood panel and we are still keeping the HVAC or heating ventilation in air conditioning, the mechanical systems there, it just redesigning them into the new diet. I think that's most of it. Yeah, okay, thank you Isaiah. Anything I forgot Bill? No. Okay, anything I forgot so. Okay, with that we welcome your comments and feedback. Thank you. Uh, Miss Young or Dr. Jones or Miss Rigby. Do you have any comments or questions? Yeah. Yes, I do. This is awful Jones. Go ahead. Okay, is it me? It is you. Okay, thank you. Looks great. Looks amazing. How much will it cost? Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the question. We haven't yet run detailed. Cost estimate for the work yet as we're still coordinating the needs with our colleagues at Washington Professional and DTCS for those elements. But we have included additional funding in our request for C0365 for this year to support that. And I think we bucketed 700,000 for council work. We're hopeful that we won't we won't need that entire 700,000 for this project that that would then support other systemic needs, but that's sort of what we bucket it in that overall request for this year. Yes, that would be—I personally will be looking to submit an amendment to decrease that. I think in this current time of everyone tightening their belts at all levels as amazing as that presentation was and as fantastic as all of that sounds. I would be looking to decrease this budget line. I don't just give an whole scope of things. That was my first thing and my last thing is in the lighting that you have, I know I'll just say like this, given the lighting of the rooms, will there be an option to vary the lighting or vary the, I guess the look of the room for those with diverse skin tones. Melan, and if you will. I may defer to our professional at Washington Professional, and I can look certainly look into that with our electrical engineer who's making some of the specific lighting recommendations. Definitely, the color temperatures of the lighting and the dimming capabilities or brightening capabilities are really important in this space from what I understand. The dius was designed almost to make the dius glow as a light channel or a light well with the rest of the room kind of darkened so that the council members stand out much brighter on camera. So a lot of the lighting was designed for the videography of the space. And so we're balancing that as well as the ambient lighting when you're physically in the room. So I love your point and I think it's something we very much consider. Awesome. Thank you so much. If I could ask Dr. Jones a question, I didn't know if Dr. Jones had a preference between the larger graceful curve or the more compact half-round option? I mean, I never had a problem seeing colleagues that wasn't a concern of mine. There's still a few of us. I mean, if you just look, you'll see everybody. It's not like it's like there be others or something so it is not preference to me. Mr. Rigby. Thank you. I do have trouble seeing everybody. Just like the way we're faced, I feel like you're not looking at each other. You're kind of looking out, but I, I really understand, I feel like the two options really showed the challenges and tradeoffs that you have to have. So if I had to pick between the two, I would choose the larger curve because we have folks like the but Maryland Transportation Authority and their road show come in or different entities use the vantaker room. I think planning for a larger group up there makes a lot of sense. We might be a smaller group but we're not the only ones that use the Dias. Now I don't know if there's a way to make space for the technology but not necessarily put technology at all nine seats. That might be another option to save on cost, but provide that flexibility for the future. Most jurisdictions around us have significantly more council members. I assume one day that might shift here. So I think if we're doing this, I, as we want to be able to plan for the future. So I would choose the larger ADA accessible curve if I had to choose. And I also just wanted to say, I appreciate the idea of having the up and down lights for more ambient lighting. The room itself is, I think it's challenging to power balance power and sort of accessibility, but the room, if you're a resident, it does feel kind of intimidating. And I think most of us want a more welcoming vibe for our residents to come and testify to us. And then the last thing I'll just say is that I'm sure this would increase the cost, so I'm just throwing it out there as a wish list item. But there are no natural light. There is no natural light in that whole room. And I think it does have at least one exterior wall. And when I went to tour Scotland's Parliament, it's all new. So it is really all very thoughtfully done. And I recognize that we're not starting from scratch here in that way. But they weave the concept of transparency throughout the building. So even the concept of having a window where the people can see in and see the business of the council, I think would both be visually transparent, add that natural light, but then also sort of have that message of like we encourage that transparency versus our sort of hexagon arena of darkness that we currently have. But I really appreciate the ideas and the thought that's gone into them. So thank you all. Thank you. Miss Yel. Kristiana, thank you for mentioning light. That is we have no light in our council offices. We have a big dark conference room. We have a small dark conference room. We have an even larger the one that you're in today, dark conference room. There is no natural light. And then we have the very dark panic room. So there is no natural light that flows into any of our meeting spaces in our council office. And, uh, Christian and I are also both on the north side of the building, which also gets no light. So it is a very light challenged environment. And if there was a way to bring in some natural light, I think that would be wonderful. I prefer the Tamor front on the day, because I think it brings warmth to this space, as opposed to, I guess I think it was laminate that you mentioned. Otherwise, I think that, well, actually, it's not an otherwise. I think the design looks fabulous. Probably the nine cedar would work better. Also, again, for the reasons that Ms. Rigby just mentioned, there are a lot of people who use this room besides the council and the graceful curve probably would also give the council members when we are there a better view of the room. You mentioned something about ventilation and coolness being able to control some air conditioning, I think, underneath the the days. And I'm thinking most of us are actually always freezing in that room. So what we would like more than anything is heat at our feet or somewhere around our bodies so that we could, so that we don't have to bring blankets out to the dais for comfortability. I noticed that the chairs were turquoise. I don't know if there was a reason for that choice. And I think it would be nice to at least think about another color. And otherwise, I really do think it's a beautiful design. And I thank you for the time that you put into it and the thoughtfulness and appreciate all that you've done. Thank you so much. I did just want to clarify that the existing chairs are we're not meant to be re-apholstered in the design. The turquoise fabric is the existing to remain, but if it's something that like for us to explore, we're happy to do that. Yeah. Okay. All right. Because room capacity. Thank you for being here. Fine. That room capacity stays. I'll attack on to Cristiana's statement about the transparency and maybe this goes to Deb's always concerned about security, but you could add natural light just by changing the back of the room. Right now they're solid with doors. You can't see what's going on if you're in the lobby and we have no idea what's opening that door when it does open. So if there was a way to create, you know, it had to be to some degree soundproof because we ended up having the door open until somebody has a party in the lobby, but there is natural light in that lobby. And again, it would be nice to know who's opening that door. I agree. I didn't understand what you said, have. You said the tan wood. Is that what you said? Chamboard. It's the rounded Jesus of wood that would go across the front. Oh, okay. I got it. Okay. Very sophisticated. T-A-M-P-L-U-R. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, you know, otherwise I don't have strong preferences either way. I agree they both look very nice. I wouldn't mind hearing from some staff. I know Theo, you've been here forever and ever, Michelle. You've been here for a very long time. Like, how recently have we done a redesign? what kind of things guided our thing? Because I'm feeling very, I have no nice way to say this. I'm feeling very Mary case to get me like, I don't know how many of us on the council now will be here in two years, but we're dictating what this room looks like. You know, like, I don't, I feel a little, like, it's not my place. But on On the other hand, we have seven years experience being in that room and freezing and not seeing each other and we're trying to look back here. And, you know, so we definitely have experience, especially this notion of how to function or try to function in this hybrid world. I think that really is the big change. I love that we kept the size because I was really afraid we were gonna forego that. And I think there are still occasions. More so than having a lot of people on the dius, there are still occasions, we're gonna have a lot of people out in those chairs. So that to me was really the biggest part, and I was worried about it. So the fact that we're retaining the actual seating capacity is the biggest thing to me, but I just wanted to hear from people who've been here even longer than the seven years that we have on the council and will be here after maybe some of us are gone. What were like the guiding principles or what were the things you've seen work or not in the past? So I'll go quickly and then I'll let you know, I don't think the place has been renovated since like 2014 or something or maybe so it's been at least 10 plus years. Some of the things that we mentioned to the Department of Facilities and the design team were things that you guys mentioned is allowing more space on the day. And like Kristiana and Deb mentioned, we do have other entities that come in. The delegation comes in annually and sits and it's been very cumbersome trying to squeeze more than like five or six and there are times where they try to put ten on a day. So it's a lot. We do like the features that Washington professional has mentioned to us as far as the changing the plate so that you can, based on who's sitting at the desk, you can have a electronic mechanism for changing the names, as well as the queuing of the lights. We've mentioned to them that, you know, council is really squished. They need more desk space. And the last thing I would say is I do prefer I like the long, the long day as opposed to that they architecturally jutted out. Well, Zach biased it when he said you like the long graceful one or the awkward squished in one? Exactly. Because it allows for more use in that room is what I said. And go ahead. Yeah, the only thing I can remember is, and I've been here for a while, the, um, there were changes made to that room. If you go into that room now, you'll notice initially that was like stadium seating. So there's, there's a false floor underneath there to level the whole thing out and I just went look at the pictures out there the day is was also very very high and there was an effort to lower the day is because they wanted to be a little closer to the public they didn't want to have like the council was looking down at the public so that that was the one thing I noticed on the thing and I don't know if that's a concern, but I also know that you know security comes into play with a higher day as also. And I think the important thing is you got rid of that little new wall, but you're still keeping that barrier that gets you to the door because sometimes when there are hearings, you know you need a barrier to get to the door. That's a good point you bring up Theo did. You check with the police, the security, because they have, they do maintain the security for the building. It would be good to reach out and get their input. We'll certainly do that. Thank you guys. Yeah. Thank you. That's what I was going to ask is if you could give us some indication of like the height difference between what we have now and what's proposed. It doesn't seem like it's that extreme. I have no. It's not dramatic. It's between six and eight inches somewhere. Okay. It's not it's not a foot. It's definitely not a foot. It's not it's not too big. Higher than what it what it what it is now. Yeah, six, eight inches higher. And so can we, I say, can you find in the slides the picture of the tambourde, tambourde? How does one spell that? T-A-M-B-O-R-D? Okay, I'm bored. Damn feel you are beat tambour okay not tambour You're bored. Okay the tambour no not the long graceful long graceful one because i noticed in all of the depictions there's like this hood over the top above us that's the existing that's the existing metal that's existing what the metal uh slanted piece oh my god. I've never noticed that before I was like what do you call this spaceship feature? It reminds me of like when I was a resident It felt like I was like going up to a spaceship It feels very intimidating that that metal thing when you walk out from the room But I don't want to increase the cost either But I will just say it's like intimidating space. It's hilarious I know what it was. Jason Laffer, are you still on? Can you tell us what that spaceship thing is for us? For now. He's not a muting, but I do believe that it has to do with the acoustics because it's brick like everything is brick in there. Oh okay. Okay. Yeah I think I think and someone else mentioned this already lighting is a big deal in that room. It seems off all the time. That was one of the things that I'm sorry but that was one of the things that was brought up the reason it is how it is is because of the video requirements. So that's why it's so bright and won that area in dark. And it's again the dichotomy of the new tech versus the kind of, you know, it's a community room. It should be for the community and the people that are there, but also the requirements for the visual, but that is all stuff we're taking to account as we move ahead. Okay. And I ask, I mean, I will note that with the expanded elongated, I will be exploring. Possibly lighting on either side of the big metal overhang because the dius now expands beyond. Okay. The limit of that centerpiece. Yeah. Interesting. I don't know if you can see it, but Theo brought over a picture from the hallway. And it looks like we had tambourine before. Tamvor. It's Tamvor. I'm really going to call it Tamvorine. You can't stop. You can't stop me. It's Tamvorine. I'm not covering it. For both of you, when I googled it, because I searched tambour just for fun, it did bring up a tambourine as well. Okay, it's very nice. Thank you, Kristiana. Thank you for validating my bad behavior. It looks very nice. I think everyone's happy with it. I, you know, Opal mentioned the kind of obvious, but we haven't renovated in however long in our offices, my like, mold and dead mansion. We haven't a light. And it's for the people, I don't know. Yeah, that room doesn't work right now. I don't think in the in the hybrid world. I mean, even last night, it's just it's just doesn't work. And so that would be nice if it did. Anything else colleagues? Dr. Jones, Miss rugby, Miss Young. David missed out. Can we ask what are you did? Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, our next step. Thank you. Certainly. Yeah, so next steps would be that we'll take the feedback back today and begin the process of creating the construction documents, which is the technical drawings and specifications for construction, as well as having some additional coordination meetings with the Washington professional D DTCS and you guys staff to make sure that we're meeting the market incorporating all the comments. We'll have an intermediate submission of those documents before we move to construction so that everyone can review and coordinate as well. Yeah. Go ahead, Ms. Rigby. Thank you, I see. Thank you. I, well, I, I know I missed last call for questions, and then I was like, oh, then it, then it came to me. But, um, I guess to the, to the timing of it all. You know, I wonder if there is a way where we can get to most of design, but not necessarily construction, and then provide for the next body to actually do that construction, but we've gotten them most of the way there on the design aspect, and then they would have, you know, you'd want to give them a little time to be in office and understand and use the dias, but that way we could kind of give them a good foundation and they could make like the rest of the any smaller changes closer to construction. Because I know that we have sort of different stages of design, so I don't know where we if this is 30, but then that way, that kind of delays some of the cost concerns and we can kind of go on a, instead of going on and accelerate a schedule, we could go on a slower schedule and maybe that's a good compromise between sort of we it was nice to come into a space that had been thoughtfully renovated for us and at the same time I think that there might have been different choices that we would have made as a body. So. Uh go ahead Miss Young. Um I think even that we started talking about this seven years ago, almost seven years ago, that slowing it down, that we've had a chance to live in this for a really long time. And I think that these design changes are, they're not so crazy that any new council wouldn't appreciate what we're trying to accomplish right now. If we don't do it now, who knows it could take another seven years for the next council to actually accomplish something. So I would suggest that we move forward with it on the schedule that we've just discussed. I'm inclined to agree with you, Miss Young. I know I made the crack about, you know, the outgoing council doing it, but I do think it is a part of our lessons learned. And I don't think a newer body would come in and be like, I immediately insist on bettering my workspace. Like that's just not. That's not what people are running on or wishing to accomplish first in office. So. I immediately insist on bettering my workspace. That's just not what people are running on or wishing to accomplish first in office. So I think, you know, if I know it's what happened last time and I know we're not so happy with what happened, or at least some of us aren't. But I don't know. I think you hit all the marks on your proposal, and it looks really nice, and it really would do good, not only for the incoming council, but all of the users of that space, including our constituents and our staff. So, and you guys are gonna be here all the time, no matter what. So, I mean, Clan, you agree with Miss Young as well, but I guess we'll have to take some kind of poll since we seem to have a little bit of a divide. But thank you so much. That was really nice. I mean, Clancy agrees with Miss Young as well, but I guess we'll have to take some kind of poll since we seem to have a little bit of a divide. But thank you so much. That was really nice sack. I know it's been a long haul and we're very indecisive even now. But it's a beautiful product. But it was worth the wait. And we're really thankful for the team from Michael Graves. Not just this project, but also our architect of record on the Center for Arts, Culture, and History. Oh, really? OK. And a couple of other exciting projects throughout the county. And so just a really fantastic firm. And of course, that Christa being here in Howard County has a personal drive to make the projects very successful. So it's great. Nice. Can I please tell you if that's the case that yesterday the executive came to present his operating budget and he had an accompanying video and for or you know a presentation and for whatever reason the two slides or the one slide we had actual video was to show like ongoing construction and the two projects were the North or the Laura poll, right? And the courthouse. But again, we're looking that we're trying to be respectful on the Canaryx Hacking. and the two projects were the North Laurel Pool, or the Laurel Pool, right, and the courthouse. But again, we're looking that we're trying to, you know, be respectful and look at our executive and look behind us at this video thing. So it caught my eye. There was like this bulldozer inside the building, I guess, because they've constructed North Laurel the frame above it. And so I thought it was the courthouse that had this bulldozer like just dec decimated everything inside. And that's the face I made, Deb Young. I was like, what did I just get out of the corner of my eye? I almost had a nervous breakdown. And then I got it together and looked all the way around. But that was the most shocking thing that happened yesterday was I thought you guys had a bulldozer in that courthouse. I was loose my mind. Okay, but thank you for your work. It's beautiful. All right. Thank you for the opportunity. See you guys tomorrow at the work session number two. Thank you. All right. This meeting is no longer being recorded.