So let's call the meeting to order. Sorry, I'm late connecting. Perfect timing, really. Wonderful. I'm like trying to scroll the meeting agenda so I can see it. And it won't zoom in. It won't do it because it's not actually mine. Does anybody have any comments on last month's meeting minutes. Do I hear a motion to adopt the meeting minutes? I move to adopt the meetings minutes. Second. Second. To a day. Anyone opposed. Alright, I think we're good. Okay. Next item. Others will join in a moment. Do we have. Dave or I guess we don't have anybody from Council plan hold on. Hold on the door just opened. Yes. somebody would come out. This organized. Sorry about that. My wife has a cold. I had a cold earlier the week she got bad. I'm going to go ahead and I'll go ahead and go ahead and I'll go ahead and go ahead and I'll go ahead and go ahead and I'll go ahead and go ahead and I'll go ahead and go ahead and I'll go ahead and go ahead and I'll go ahead and go ahead and I'll go ahead and go ahead and I'll go ahead and go ahead and I'll go ahead and go ahead and I'll go ahead and go ahead and I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. also planning on joining as well. Is she going to present that or should we be reading that in the background? We can go over any case she isn't here. Okay. Yeah, I think it's one or the other. I'm just telling you I have no internet. I still trying to... Okay. Sorry. Switch computers and got me a. All right, Janet, if you want to go over the changes with the policies. Yes, I will bring up the the all virtual participation and the remote meeting attendance policies have been updated. And the changed language here in the document is all highlighted in green from what was there before and then I went ahead and filled in CACT in these yellow highlighted boxes. Going through a few new laws at the beginning of July, which is why this is being updated. Correct. Just a quick question, Arthur, is, and Jenna, is this specific to CACT or is this specific to all of the public committees? This is for all boards and commissions. So there's, there's, there's a cookie cutter of this just replacing CACT with some other name. Right. There was everyone's doing the same thing. Right, so if this was ESC, they would replace where CACG is with their name. Okay, thank you. And then adopt this. Sorry for the thing. Yeah. So in terms of that 50% what was there before? Let's see I have notes here I believe it was 2 or 25% of meetings so now it went from 25% to 50%. So it's more for more permissible. Correct. Okay. Good. Yeah, I think all the changes were too things that just kind of got in a way of getting stuff done. Yeah. Right. And another change here was that just in case there was audio. If there is audio visual technology available and audio isn't being communicated to someone over teams and they would be considered as if they can't listen into the meeting. So is visual required? That was something that was discussed. I believe it only came down to audio being required. But visual is highly encouraged if it is feasible to show on your camera. Okay, but you could call in for instance if you didn't. Right, if it was necessary. Yeah. Okay. And then again, no more than two members. Together in a physical location, unless that remote location is open to the public. Yeah, I was a little confused reading this before. I kind of understand the idea that if you have one and two members somewhere, then that's kind of a separate meeting. But what does it mean unless the remote? So you could have three people in location as long as, so like right now now I'm in the I'm in city hall. If you give us we're in this room, that would be okay. Because it's city hall and theoretically it's open to the public. Yes, my understanding of those. Yes, correct. If we were somebody's house, it would not be okay to have three. That. The coffee shop count. I'll host. Public place. That's a pretty big change. I was, I was it, I think, a clarin Don's a pretty big change. I was, I was requires, you know, notification, everything else. It gets, it's messy. Yeah, that would be if there was two more members present. Isn't that what we're talking about? Yes, this is around that same. If this is around that same. If this is for very short meetings. Right. Yeah. Anything else there? Is that it? That's it for this one. And then adopted. If it is adopted by CACT, I would go in and type in the day it was adopted. If it is adopted by CACT, I would go in and type in the day it was adopted. Okay, do I have a motion to adopt the revised whichever rules this is? So move. This is all virtual participation in public meetings. I second. All in favor? Hi. Hi. All opposed. Hi. I think we can say it's adopted. General, the way you highlighted things helped a lot to see the differences and see what good, what the new gig is. Thank you. All right. Let me bring up the remote participation policy. All right. So same thing. This time is policy from remote participation in meetings. For instance, if CACT was being held in dogwood, and then if one of the members had a participate remotely, this is the update to this policy. The major change here. Let's see. Yes, if a member can count towards the quorum that is physically present, if they are a person of a disability or a caregiver to person with a disability. Yes, this is the one where I sent you the note just it's I'm assuming that this means temporary or permanent disability. The definition down below from the Virginia Code doesn't define that. Um, I'm this clearly is intended to be whether it's temporary or permanent. For instance, I, you know, after my surgery, I couldn't hobble to the city hall. It's temporary disability. But the city attorney is fine with it. I guess I'm okay with it, but it's unclear, which is not what you want in the legal document. Yeah, if you go back up, Jen, a little bit to that, where that first one that are just okay, right there. Oh, here. No, right. A little okay. All right. So the first page. Just want to go back. You're all done. No, go up a little bit more. No, no, I'm sorry. Go down the page slowly. OK. Sorry, I don't know how to describe a little further. For 3B or the next one. OK, the next one right here. Yeah. All right, so if you go a little further. All right. So number four, basically makes all the specifics of the above kind of useless. It basically says, hey, you can't make it and you got a personal matter. You might be disabled. You might be like, I don't know, like I was up in Boston and I had to join. I mean, it seems as though that makes it all kind of Lucy Goosey, which I think is to our advantage. But I don't know if you agree. I think the difference is that you could participate from Boston, that that was an existing. What you could not have done, what we could not have done was convene the meeting because you would not count towards the court. So that's the change here. Which is we had that with our former friend. Yeah, actually, Aaron. Yeah, when I had the surgery, it was a really good case. I think we ended up being too short, so it didn't matter. But if it had just been me, and I had had the ankle, the Kelly surgery the day before, I could not have, I was able to, I wasn't loopy so I could have joined, but I would not have been able to count towards the quorum to convene the meeting, this is saying that I would have found it towards the quorum to convene the meeting. Could have participated either way and as long as it. As long as there was a quorum there, I would still have been able to vote. But there was no quorum to convene the meeting. Actually, I think we were too short. So it didn't really matter. But I would this temporary versus permanent thing, Dana, I would suggest take that back to the, see, attorney. I think we can go with it for right now. And maybe when we, because I, my understanding we have to adopt these every year, correct? Right. So this is kind of a rare update. That's not in line of the business meeting. So this is why this is that this meeting so that this can be in place for the rest of the means this year and then it would be re-adopted next year as well. So I would suggest bring this concern back to the city's attorney. It's an e-fix and that way hopefully for next year when we re-adopted it at the beginning of the year, it can be a little clear. I think we're covered. It's just vagueness and illegal document bothers me. Right, and I can ask for explanation for as well. Yeah. You need stuff to miss. And that was really the only major one, the major changes for this policy update. All right. Does anybody else have any comments on this document. Your question. All right. Do I hear a motion to adopt? I move to adopt. Do I hear a second? Second. All four. Hi. Hi. Hi. I'll say I, I'll post. All four. Hi. Hi. Hi. I. I. I'll post. I think we're good. So Mr. Slyther is joined. Do you want to. Askder is joined. Do you want to ask for his inputs? But sure, thanks a lot. I had a great walk to him from City Hall. But that's me. It doesn't live around the corner. And you know, you could have given me those cookies. I want you to know that I came armed with cookies for tonight's meeting. So I will hold them to the next public meeting. Look, there's got to be one on the crowd. So I nominated myself to be the one who missed the fact that it was virtual. So anyway, thanks a lot, you all for for what you do. Actually, I guess the point that that I wanted to make is something really we on the council heard for the first time of this morning during the Wednesday agenda meeting that the bicycle master plan will need to move forward as part of the comprehensive plan, which means that V.Dott will have to approve it. And it means several months of further process. I think the idea is to go ahead and consider it here as well as City Council continue to work on it, but the process has been changed and elongated. I think it was on the advice of the city attorney that it be part of the comprehensive plan. That means that, and we did explore, is that absolutely essential? Could you do like a placeholder in a comprehensive plan so that you could have a bike master plan that could be amended and be more flexible as time goes on other than having to go back and amend the comprehensive plan and the answer was no, that this needs to be a part of the comprehensive plan. So I promise I would be the one who would deliver the development. So that's kind of where where that is. You may have questions about that. I don't have all the answers tonight, but there was kind of new to us Wednesday, but that's the considered opinion of the city attorney that plans like this have to be formally part of the comprehensive plan. So that's not the way we're proceeding, but that's the view of the attorney, the city attorney now. So yes, I see that there's a question. I hope I can answer it if I can. I'll get you answer. It's David, it's just a quick one. Well, the comprehensive plan, it's just a quick one. Well, the comprehensive plan, what's the status of it that we're now essentially part of? Is there something we should be studying in that to see how we dovetail? Well, you know, that's that's that's a good question. And I think we can bring that we can bring that back to you. I would keep working on the bicycle master plan because the substance of it will instead of being a free standing plan now necessarily be part of the comprehensive plan. But there is a process in getting a transportation facilities that are envisioned in the bicycle master plan. And apparently they have to go through V dot. So that's about a hundred days of review time for them. On Jenna or anyone from city staff feel free to add whatever you know, but that was kind of new to us this morning. So the thing that I wonder about the most is the priority project. Obviously, the three second tier ones were always going to be later. I don't think here to affect timeline on those, but those three priority projects, North, Southwest, and throughout the schools, I was able to move forward in planning and kind of that next step with those without having the bicycle master plan completed or signed off on, because it seems to me they're their individual projects and there's money to do the design that we could get moving. Well, I feel the impatience. I don't know the answer to that. Maybe city staff does. If you don't, we'll get any answer to that question. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, staff does, um, it is the opinion of staff that, um, you know, the city could move forward with design for those. And three routes and sort of look at fully funding them later. But that. Work on those could proceed through the October budget amendment if that's something that council wants to choose to do. Yeah, it's going to take the design going to take a little time anyway. Yeah. Especially the route to the path to schools. Yeah. I mean, my suggestion for this group is keep working on the contents. And then the contents can no longer be a free standing plan. They'll need to be inserted in the comprehensive plan, but keep working on it because if we can continue to move forward on particular projects, which is a question that staff I would ask take back and I will as well to the city attorney. But in, so I don't think it necessarily affects this meeting, but it puts your work in a different procedural posture and in a different vehicle than we had originally thought. Yeah, I'm not sure how much more we were going to be doing at my understanding was, Carrie, Carrie, correct me, we just come on. We were going to provide our support to it to council, you know, make a motion to support it in this meeting. And that was the. We were. Right. If I were you I would. Unless staff disagrees, I think you move forward with that, but just so that you understand that there's an understanding that the process. has changed from a free standing plan, which we could do pretty quickly on our own to a comprehensive plan, which is a more formalized process involving V.Review. Yeah. I think it makes sense to hold off on that, because if V.Review comes back with changes, I don't know what those would be. All right. Okay, up to you, but sorry, they have to deliver this, but it was new to us this morning. Um, Stewart and David, if we did, I'm excuse me, art, if we did postpone approving, are we going to miss any window of opportunity with the City Council? Like, leave them unable to make some other decisions because we didn't approve the current stand-alone plan. Yeah, don't, don't know at this point. I just literally don't know. What I ask. I don't know just some know because the, it sounds like it's not ready for City Council approval now. It has to go take a different route to get there. Right. All right. Anything else? Was that what you brought the cookies? You're breaking bad news. You're going to bring cookies. Yeah, we really explored it this morning and I pushed as hard as I could. Most of I want to plan that we can implement. We've done all this work. What's implemented? We also need a plan that conflicts with time and change with our needs and the ability to fund the rest of it. But this is a pretty firm opinion came down that this has got up that this is now the current opinion is that it has to be in a comp plan. Jess, you can be a hand up. Yeah, Councilman, I was just wondering if you could let us know what happened with the, with the BDO, leather slash attention place. I know I watched the August council meeting video but I didn't see the latest one. Yeah, we have an agreement. It's been signed. It does provide for extending the sidewalk. It was a little bit of a compromise as I understand it, but I think fundamentally that part of the sidewalk is going to look much like the sidewalk on both sides of it. And so I fundamentally that issue has been addressed happily and there was no need to engage in a condemnation proceeding. Great news, thanks. Yep, and thanks for asking. In terms of just regional issues, there aren't new funding sort of schedules right now, but the big issue is that as I said before, Metro funding closing the 700 million dollar gap. with significant intensity. It's being coordinated under the Council of Governance with Metro, of course, and we're actively participating both at a state level and I'll be participating. And it's a challenge, as you can imagine, because Maryland, D.C., and Virginia all fund transportation in different ways. In Virginia, the localities pick up a lot of the costs of Metro, where in Maryland, it's all done by the state and D.C., apparently, it's obviously all done by D.C., so there are issues, but I think the process is moving forward and we'll be talking different types of revenue and the yields of different types of revenue for the rest of this year. And they'll be quite a public discussion next year on that. And I think in the case of Virginia, we would probably be moving forward with legislation in calendar year year 2026. But you'll hear a lot more about this and I'll bring it back to you as discussions continue. Vice-Duer, yeah. Thank you for the update. So you are not talking about immediate. You're talking about longer term. Right. Funding. Is that right? Yeah. The not committed to more funding and so we really have to be we really have to get at the Metro funding issues and it will take legislation to get permission even to tax ourselves and my view would be oh no state, state of Virginia, you can have a kick and a fair amount of this too, but it will take legislative action to come up with a funding that we need for Metro. And that will most likely occur after the next gubernatorial election. Well, it took legislative action in order to pass this two year funding, right? Right. Your right, Stuart. Okay. Well, that's that's what I had. And I'm sorry about the change in process with the bike master plan and we heard your questions and we'll get answers for you on that. Okay. just looking ahead on the council agenda and something I noticed in October that I guess you're talking about a some whatever it's called to get the ball started on a vision zero complete streets. You have some insight into that because obviously I've been screaming complete streets for quite a while. Oh, beyond view. David, unmute. There is a commitment to pursue both of those things And I think we're going to try to learn from other jurisdictions what worked. So the idea is not a whole bunch of new plans, but actually we've already set the general direction and we want to move in. And so the issue will be what specific actions we can put in place that will actually advance both complete streets and vision zero. So again, CACT, that would be a great agenda item for you all in the future. If you'd like to take up those, those matters. Yeah, we're very interested in being part of that because it's. I'm really happy to hear that this is getting taken up. thing that was discussed Monday night at the council was the Fellows Park. That's the site across from the Oak Street Elementary School and there's a plan to develop the park and do a lot of work on the sidewalks on Oak Street where you have the telephone poles in the middle of the sidewalk. So that'll be worked on. And then the plan calls for an additional sidewalk on the side street. So, um, and then a good connection between the school and the park. So that has transportation ram modifications as well. Yeah, and that's an area of Oak Street that's so wide. It's like the solution for the poles is easy. Extend the curb into the streets area and make that the sidewalk. Don't have to move the poles. Is there a design developed for that yet? Yep, there is. Take a look at the materials for the I'm going to go ahead and move on. Is there a design. Develop for that yet? Yep, there is. Take a look at the materials for the city council meeting Monday night. Yep, it's all there. Well, thanks everyone. Thanks for your questions. I'll. I'll be listening in to at least part of the rest of the meeting and thanks again for all your work. Thank you. All right. So obviously the next item on the agenda has been changed. I think we don't necessarily need to go in deep here. One thing I wanna say before we jump into whatever's next, I think I had sent to do a note on this, but I actually have to jump off in 20 minutes. So, school will be taking over. Need to go to the App in 20 minutes. So school will be taking over. Need to go to the appointments committee. The do we want carry if we're not going to retain what do we want to do with the bike master plan tonight? Do we want to cover any of this or does anybody have any we need to be doing this agenda item. Um, So I'm happy to provide an update on the changes that have been made. Since CACT last saw this item and then the changes. That staff plans to make based on the work session that was held with Council last week. If, yeah, so it's up to you, you know, staff does plan to come back. As councilmember Snyder mentioned, there is a 100 day review period with Vida for this to become part of the comprehensive plan as a city attorney, you know, has laid out per the state code. So, yeah, so stuff would plan to come back to CACT in January prior to going to council. I'm happy to kind of go through the changes that have been made. But that's I would like to see that. Okay. Yeah. All right. So I'll just sort of, I just have sort of a brief presentation and I'm, I'm Carrie Odenino for folks in the call who aren't familiar the city. So, um, yeah, so, as council members tonight are noted, adopting the bike plan as part of the comprehensive plan makes the plan more rigid and sort of. It's sort of stronger from a legal perspective. CSCT last was last presented this item at the August 21st work session, updates to the staff report at memo, since that work session are highlighted in gray, and updates to the draft plan documented are highlighted in red. If we wanna sort of open that memo up and share that. So, um, so since that work session in August, um, major major changes, um, include updates to the vision goals to reinforce all ages and all all abilities and achieving bicycle friendly community status. Updates to the future routes map to incorporate additional routes suggested during the council work session. And then some additional information about how to improve existing routes. Looking at master plan updates, if we want to provide environment which bicycling is safe and comfortable for people of all ages and abilities. and then plans to add the goal of bicycle friendly community by the year 2030. A comment response table is available by topic throughout the memo. In terms of the map of future routes, that is an out-your vision for a connected and complete bike network, and that network was developed using the principles of connecting to regional networks, connecting to regional networks, connecting to priority destinations, such as commercial areas and neighborhoods, transit facilities and schools, connecting to designated by Grotes and neighboring jurisdictions, and connecting islands of low-stress streets. In terms of updates to the future routes maps. That's the last work session. North Washington Street has been added as well as some lower stress routes throughout neighborhoods, throughout the city. And then based on feedback from the city council meeting last week, staff is also planning to add southly street and and sort of um a block of northly street um the remainder of anondale road up to broad street and then a route that that goes down um gun tree drive south Virginia avenue of, Sherro and Sherro Avenue that connects Broad Street to Oak Street Elementary School. In terms of conceptual design. If we want to go down to that section, staff prepared conceptual designs for the three priority routes and presented those cross sections at a series of community neighborhood meetings, as you all know. And during the meetings, meeting participants also requested traffic coming and pedestrian access improvements, as well as consideration for parking utilization and operational impacts for trash and recycling pickup. So a brief two or three sentence description of the concepts that are shown in engaging a second round of community meetings during the spring of 2025. And then if the update to the plan document is approved, staff will continue to revise the designs for the three priority routes of Southwest Street and Northwest Street and the East West connection by incorporating those community-recrested features, including traffic calming and pedestrian safety features. If we want to move down to the implementation section, implementation involves a four-pronged approach, including building new bike facilities, improving existing facilities, installing bicycle parking and hosting educational events, and should be guided by the goal of achieving bicycle friendly community status. Staff is also planning to add information regarding maintenance to the implementation section. We sort of already discussed timing. to the implementation section. We sort of already discussed timing. So we're going to kind of. Right, so we kicked off this update. With a discussion of scope and schedule. With council did that review of existing conditions and identified priority routes in late fall and winter. Reviewed conceptual designs March through June. Are conducting these work sessions with CACT. We do plan to still. You know, go to the council meeting on September 23rd. And that that will allow kind of the public to make comments and staff to hear further comments from council so that we can sort of wrap those full those into the plan document before we send that plan off to v. So I'd be happy to answer any further questions at this time. I'd like to make just just one comment. It concerns me a little bit this. You've got a reference earlier in the document to the different types of cyclists. I think you're for exactly where that is, you know what I'm referring to. Right, right, right. And the reference there indicates that they are sort of common industry terms. And the one that I think is inappropriate for common industry term is where it talks about being fearless. Okay. And again, if it's an industry term, it's not, you know, it goes way beyond false, false or city. But is, is many on this may be aware of two brothers that were killed, one of whom was a player and NHL player for the Columbus Blue Jack. It's just a couple of weeks ago. They were out cycling together and run over by behind, from behind. You know, so the issue being fearless on the cycle, on a bicycle, I think is really, it's inappropriate. I've been, you know, personally been hit by a car when I was, when I was, when I was riding. It's, you know, fearless is not the right way. It's not the right way to ride a bicycle, in my opinion. Thanks for that. way it's not the right way to write a bicycle in my opinion. Thanks for that. Yeah, I would agree because especially in certain situations, I mean, even on a dedicated bike path, you know, levels. And some of the bicyclists can be carried. Even to other bicyclists. So there's no absolutes. Should we come up with a couple, I mean, with the renaming those four levels, should we come up with that and make some suggestions for next meeting? That's a good idea. Yeah, why don't we just all do that? Think about because I thought of that fearless one is, I mean, I trust, I have trust, but I'm never fearless. When I'm even on the bike trail. Yeah. Um. Can I ask another question? Yes. Carrie, you said the next step will be then getting it to the to V dot. Do we know, do we need to do any kind of, well, let me ask it differently. Should we do any kind of pre-positioning so that our plan that's been worked on for years doesn't just get hacked or gets adopted easily. In other words, understand how do we get to know the people who are going to actually review and incorporate it. So, um, V.O.T. has reviewed, um, they reviewed the mobility for all nodes chapter and city staffs experience with that chapter was, um, you know, that the folks from V.R. reviewing were sort of what happened in 2014. sort of getting working to kind of understand all of the forms and procedures that are going to be kind of required as part of this process. Um, um, Safted touch base with a V dot staff today. Um, but, um, I, I, I guess it's, um, my sort of current take on it is that, um, it may not be necessary to kind of pre position. Um, that we should just kind of submit and just kind of move forward as we would. Okay. I don't think I've ever heard of V.com back and completely slashing up one of our plans. I mean, we send design through them all the time. It's usually I know with the street designs and stuff, they are looking to make sure it abides by all laws and things like that. I believe they tend to want to get into a whole math fight over. No, bikes are bad. No, okay. All right, I'm going to have to drop off. I leave you in the given beforehand. So still one thing I would like to mention is. I personally didn't receive must have missed the email, but there is the. Boards and commissions of creation picnic next week. The RSVP is actually today. I know Jenna resented out the day. I don't know my email. Sometimes things go crazy. No, I trouble with that also, Art, for some reason, I, some reason the JPEG or something, just showed up without any, without any email associated with it, I didn't understand it. My, I think that the email today, was there a previous invitation? I believe there should have been a previous invitation, sent to board some questions. So these These are there was supposed to be sent by like a central person like for all of the commissions or committees. Excuse me. Can you reset? Can you reset? I sent it. I sent it today. Yeah. When are it brighted up. So I just wanted to mention it so everybody knows it was fun. It was fun the last time I think it was been two years and gave us a t-shirt and food. So and families are invited. Can you recent that, General? I sent it this afternoon. As I say, I just got the image. I didn't get the email. This bizarre. I think the image is the entire thing. I forwarded an email, so it should have my message attached to the flyer. But I can send it again after this meeting if it didn't come through. Okay. I leave the meeting in your cable hands too. Okay. So where are we in terms of the master plan? Careers are more you want to continue with? If I guess if there are any comments on sort of the plan document, sort of as it stands, and then with the changes that staff noted would be added. I know we've discussed it sort of several times already. So so this is this is the item made so then did you want to discuss separately the draft plan? No, that's So, the changes that have been made since the last version. There were a few images at it and then the new text is in red. So if we sort of keep scrolling down for some red text, I think we'll get to that. Right, so the plan goals, a staff noted we're planning to make that goal see, achieve status as a bike friendly community by 2030. And then I think we can keep scrolling down. I mean, may I ask a question about that? Right. So just looking at that quickly, it's not in red, but under the goals you do mention increasing. I don't know to say bicycle. You rage and mode share. Okay. Great. So what's the current bicycle rate and mode share in the city? And what's the target? Right, so we had the commuter data in there, which I believe was 1% by bike. There were comments from a number of different board and commission members about how that wasn't necessarily accurate because they they biked around town but not to work because they tell a work to or took it used another mode for work. We do have the sort of the Strava heat map, which is in that existing conditions report that sort of shows routes that are used, but in terms of like percentages, that census data is sort of what we have. What was done as part of the 2015 bike plan was a survey. So instead of thinking about how many people are biking now, what sort of, what is the percentage of people that would like to be biking more. We sort of didn't do a surveys part of this process, but if, you know, we could add that sense of state of back in, if that sort of something that we could look to do that, if that's something, CACT, you know, would like to make us a comment. Well, I personally think having objective measures is an important part of the plan. Mm-hmm. Okay. I don't know. It's a Strava heat map included in here elsewhere. It's it's not it's and it doesn't it doesn't have like percentages and Strava is an app that's used by, um, you know, You know. People I don't use something called case here, but they're there. They're all kinds of apps out there. Um. Yeah, I mean, right, like street light data has cell phone. Um, like iPhone, data packages. There are sort of like privacy concerns with that as a data source. And I think there's a price tag associated with purchasing data of that nature. Another thing that can be done right in but Strava probably does have numbers. I can't recall that I could sort of go with stuff to go in their gown and sort of look, but bicycle, another thing that can be looked at is pet bite counters. The city doesn't have any, but those sort of count people as they pass by. So those are kind of some data sources that can't be used or different sort of different ways of looking at, you know, who's by the city where, yeah. Well, you know, actually, I'm looking at my phone. I do have Strava as an app on my phone, but I don't use it. But again, the point is here we've got a 40-page document that's talking about a plan and we don't have any any objective way to measure whether or not the plan has been successful because again, it seems to me the objective is of the plan isn't to build it isn't to build a bike route to the objective of the plan is to see more people riding bikes. It's easy to measure how many how many lanes you build, but that's not really what we're about. So I think you've got to, you know, whether it's driver or whether it's some other counter or something. I think it's very important that there be some kind of measurement in here so we can look back in a year or two or five and see, gee, was this worthwhile or not? Yeah, that's a good comment. We do have the bike share data too. That's another kind of thing that we've been seeing trend upwards. So yeah, we can look at sort of how to add something and to speak to that. I don't know whether other people have thoughts about that or not, but I'd like you to do that. I agree with adding a measurable goal as well. Okay, I interrupted you. You want to continue, Kerry interrupted you. You want to continue? Sure. So, yeah. So I think if we kind of scroll down. Yeah. So staff added. Right. So we're looking at efforts of of our neighbors. Arlington County adopted a like symbol of our area plan that shows, um, a proposed, um, bike facility on Langston Boulevard. Um, you know, connects to the city county line. Fairfax County is currently undergoing an update to their active transportation plan. They sort of, I think, released their draft future routes maps, and it's possible though with the routing to V. That well, I'll have to check and see, you know, if they adopt or scheduled to adopt before us or not, but the proposed routes in terms of shared use path or bike lane that meet the city's border include South Washington Street, Shree Street, and Wilson Boulevard. Yeah, I guess if we want to kind of move down, I can keep going. Just kind of a minor wording thing here. Would you go back up a little bit to the map of the city? This is one. Okay. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that the that includes where the school is, where Meridian is, it does. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Let's see. Let's keep going. So, we added some language about, you know, how bike plan works with other programs in the city like Paving and TC and Rapid Response. And that implementation of new bike and pre-structure will be incorporated as funding and project schedules for those other programs allow. So I think we can, going to keep going. We added a photo of traffic gardens. I added a funding source description here. I think we can keep going. Yeah, so the facilities section, we just added some more. Just examples and photos and it's not comprehensive. Obviously there are a lot of different types of facilities and configurations that are used. But so advisory bike lanes, that's something that came up. We had in the materials for the community meetings that were done in November and in March. And I think this this street that we had sort of thought about for advisory bike lanes in the cities East Columbia. But this is sort of, it's a little bit experimental, it's not in NACDO. It's, you have to sort of get an FHWA kind of permit to do these. But Alexandria has them. They're using the Netherlands. They're an option where sort of motorists share that sonner lane with oncoming vehicles and then have to yield to people on bikes before merging into the bike lanes. And it's it's used where there's basically just not enough space for the full bike lanes. So it's it's this sort of sort of like a yield street situation, but with bike lanes. So there is a lot of communication, education and outreach that has to be done with these because they're not as widely used or sort of familiar for people. If we wanna kind of scroll down. Again, just adding rates, raise cycle tracks to the appendix here as an example with some photos. And you probably seen these like an Arlington and DC. I think we can scroll down. Um. Um. Right. So, um, protected intersections, yeah, sort of similar to the hardened intersections, you all have talked about that before, but providing that separation between bike lanes and travel lanes and then creating shorter crossing distances and increasing driver yielding. So I'm just creating a more comfortable facility. We want to scroll down. Right. So for this section, there was some, there was, there were some questions and some comment on this section at council. Last week, stuff plans to kind of describe the process for sort of routes 1, 2, 3, and routes 4, 5, 6, sort of separately sort of separate them with language so that it's clear they're sort of using different processes right now since we've done the on the street outreach for the first three routes and we're sort of further along with those and just clarifying that we plan to do the same type of outreach for that second set of priority routes. So, I think, so we'll obviously need to update the timeline here. I think that those are sort of the changes. Obviously we're getting close to the, we were getting sort of, this has been through several rounds of edits. So there aren't as many changes at this point. But if folks have kind of comments or any kind of final changes before staff, because to that work session with council on the 23rd and then sort of wraps in the comments that we've received and then sends it off to V. Happy to take any kind of comments. Anyone have comments? I'm going to study it. Oh, chef. Now, I just, um, if, if we're not going to act on it on the, uh, today. Yeah. We may need to update that table right there. Absolutely, and we're planning to update that. Yeah. In terms of the public engagement, how many postcards per cent out? I would say several hundred. Great. Janet, do you think that's really? I think that's the least rate. Yeah, he was one of those easily. Do you think it was a thousand even? Uh, maybe. Well, I think it was under a thousand. So six or 700 maybe? Yeah. I think that's how I. Yeah. So I don't think I got one. How did you decide who to send postcards to there? What? 15,000 residents in the city. If the objective is to make people aware of it, how do you decide to send a few hundred rather than two thousand? So the postcards were meetings and some folks hadn't heard about the meeting. There was a concern that they're, you know, may have been, or they sort of didn't know where to get more information or they didn't see all of their neighbors with the meeting. And so staff sent postcards out to residents living along those routes adjacent to those routes so that they would kind of be in the loop on that. Well, I think you should think more, more expansively. This is these routes are not designed just for the people who live in the on the streets next to the routes, but they're designed for citywide, right? And so I don't live next to a route where I don't live next to one of these routes, but I'm a cyclist. And it was months ago, February or March, I think that our pose to us on CAC to start thinking about what we could do to help the city achieve its goals and objectives and one of the goals and objectives. I think was to was to increase non-auto automobile transportation and to me we need sort of an expansive approach to that rather than rather than than a narrow approach. If you you know if you were to have sent out mailings to everybody in the city people would start saying oh this can be a cycling city and maybe we can do more of that rather than confining it. So we are a thousand percent agree with you. Do sidewalks in front of your property, bike lanes in front of your property aren't for you. They're a public resource. They are for everybody. And this like just really irritates me because they don't own that. People think they deserve a parking spot right in front of their house. Well you actually don't because it's not your land and this really infuriates me because when I was I did like a survey for the Greenway Downs project it you know wasn't official didn't go anywhere but you know when you asked the question do you think we should have more sidewalks in our neighborhood? Most people said yes. Then you asked the question, would you be okay with putting a sidewalk on your side of the street? Most people said no to the people's, whose houses are along that path. Like I'm really just mind bogged by that. So there were sort of notices in the paper about sort of public hearings and yard signs. You know, also sort of, right, like a request from the manager's office that postcards be sunk. And emails from the public requesting that the postcards be sent. I'm not. Yeah. You didn't answer the question. Who who who decided who was getting the postcards? Who decided who was getting the postcards? Right. It should be on the route. I mean, I think so there was sort of an internal meeting about it. But it's it's a good comment to take forward that, you know, and staff can take that comment forward kind of for future efforts. Please do thank you. Good morning, Grieman on that. Just okay. Sarah, did Sarah, your light is flashing. Are you commenting? Sorry, I was going to say the same thing that I think bike lanes, the point of a bike lane is to make bike lanes save for the 15,000 people or 14,000 people that live here. So I just echo the comments that I think when it's a bike plan for this city that the city and it's a resident. Engage not just the houses that the bike lanes run by so just echoing the comments. Okay, great and there's a new director of communications in the city is that is my memory correct, Carrie or, or Jenna, Sarah New Communication Director. Yes, that's it. And it's a woman, isn't it? Yes. Would she be involved? Did you tap into her resources? When you do this, do you? Was she involved? happened to her resources when you do this. Do you? We're she in. Right. So when we do, right. So when we do, you know, um, noticing for development and zoning changes, it's, you know, we notice properties within 150 feet of the proposed change. And so that's sort of, I think part of where it came from. But I do understand the concern. So. Okay. David. Just think I'll just add one thing there. If you don't mind is is. The mailing. One thing it's it was targeted to achieve one or two things. It wasn't necessarily a targeted is my understanding I haven't seen the card, but to sell the idea of the whole master plan and IE encourage everyone to ride, right? I mean, sending out a survey, a survey is a very tough thing to create to get the points across that you need to get across. So maybe there's another survey we could create that could, like what you said Stuart, sell the idea of, hey, wait a minute, let's get people thinking more about this being a riding, a bicycle riding area and that when you're driving your car, it'll be a lot clearer to you when you're gonna be bumping into bicyclists, things like that. I don't know if I've made my point very clear, but. So it wasn't a survey. The mailer was just sort of like yeah just had kind of a link it said you know update bicycle master plan update had a link to the back. Right. And so for one purpose going to the routes, Jesse's going to the routes, that probably was a really good thing to do. But we may want to then broaden that and get the word out a lot better. And maybe the communications director can do it. We can start doing it electronically. Facebook and all those. So we did do blurbs in the focus on Fall's church. And I think also some social media posts along the way. OK. Let's do more. Go ahead. Yeah. Good for you. Are there any kind of further comments or? Good question. Any other comments? That's a no. That's a no from everybody. Okay. All right. So we on to Virginia Tech. Yes, no. Is there anything to come in on there? But carry on. Sorry, what's the question? Well, next on the item, there's Virginia Tech student studies. Are anything? No, those are just attachments. Still, those materials have been included. Nothing new there. No, so the East West head by connection study, everything else there is, you know, for your information as an attachment. Yeah. I'm only the vice chair, but my suggestion is, it's you that you distinguish the items there that are on the agenda to be discussed from items that are referenced. I mean, it's great to have access to the Virginia Tech Study, for instance, if somebody's interested in that. But it's not necessarily, in my opinion, should necessarily be on the agenda. I don't know if you ever know the place to put it. And yeah, maybe indicate that it hasn't been updated since such a state that if we look at it hasn't been updated since. Yeah, such as this date that like, if we look at it, then we're good. Yeah, yeah, that's good too. That's fine too. Well, if I can make a suggestion, why don't we do just that in the, for the minutes is update this list with those last edited and what's just provide of this list of A through H. So could we throw that in the minutes? What exactly are you suggesting then? if the Virginia Tech study was only put there for reference, maybe we should note that so that it's clear. And we don't, I don't know, we don't do this again, or we bring our attention to just the things that are key and the others are there, hey, by the way, remember these other documents. Well, Carol, you suggested you could note that it hasn't been updated or you could have a separate, even a separate section there in this agenda that said, you know, for reference and list the items that are for reference. We could think about how to. Sorry, yeah, we got how to read reform matter, you know, relabeled those. Okay, thanks. I got to read them all anyway. So that's good further. Oh, yeah, I don't want to be lost. Okay, then. further. Oh yeah, I don't want to be lost. Okay then, are we done then with here with uh ready ready? Are we completely done then with Yeah, so in terms of you, you did ask what's changed. So that's sort of all I have on the attachments. Okay. So if we're ready to move on to onto NTC and I do see I don't always look at the chats, but I'm looking now at the chat. And Alice, and there's an Allison there who I hope is with us now. She had a message that she wanted to know whether there is an opportunity for public comment. She may not have been on when we covered this earlier in the in the meeting and art had suggested and we decided to move and have public NTC comment in this NTC subject area. So it seems to me now is the time. Alison, if you have some comments on NTC? Stay one moment. I do have a message from Hagen with the DPW update item. Okay. Okay. I'll give a I'll keep it brief. Hagen cannot make tonight's meeting and is on leave for the rest of the week. But he wanted to inform the group that the SOP for the Rapid Response Cruise Project selection is still under review by Public Works Operations Team. And once the review is complete, they're thinking in October, they'll come back with the SOP to the CACT for feedback. Okay. Yep. Yes, and I skipped over that by mistake. Thank you, Jenna. We done there? Okay. If I may, um, if I may, is there a reason that we, it seems like a lot of the folks that are coming in for public comment are coming in for NTC projects and anyway, I just want to make a recommendation that maybe we move this up in the agendas. So that folks don't have to sit through, a couple hours of other stuff. Especially maybe we just do it if there is public comment, but just something to consider. Well, I think what we did today is, and again, I think our arts credit or blame depending on how you look at it, is that he wanted to move the the NTC comments to the NTC area. would have been invited or would have been offered at the beginning of the meeting. And maybe, just that's not a good way to do it. Right, I'm just saying moving the NTC administration section like to the beginning, like after, after, after councilman's, that's what I'm suggesting. I get it. How's that, how do you feel about that, Jenna and Carrie? I will have to note that the order is listed out in the rules of procedure. And that's something a CACT can look at at an ex-bus business meeting likely in January. So, if there wants to be a reorganization of gender, we can review it then. Okay. Thanks, Jenna. Okay. Any other comments before we move forward? Hearing none. I think we're ready for Alison. Great. Can you guys hear me? Yes. Okay. And I apologize for being a few minutes late. I work in DC. So I was on the Metro, seriously trying to get so thank you for taking my comment. And then my neighbor, Artben Kowski is here as well. We live on Cheryl Avenue. I'm at 406 Cheryl Avenue. I have been here since 2017, but my parents have been here many, many years before me. I took over their property when they retired. And so I've been coming here for many years as a baby intern a long ago, like most people's children in this area. And I'm the one who collected the signatures along the street to get the petition to you all for the traffic calming measures. Throughout the years, I have my parents and my neighbors and myself personally have noticed an extreme increase in traffic on the street. I mean, night and day, the speeding goes it's all out of the night, we can hear it. I can literally hear it. I'm in the back of my home. I can hear it from here to the front of the street with how fast they're going. It's not a peaceful place. I work in DC. I'm an attorney. I'd like to come home and have to quiet piece and quiet. I do not have that anymore. I think the reason is on ways, the appways, Uber and commercial drivers as well as regular folks driving are using Cheryl Avenue as a cut-through from Broad Street to South Virginia Avenue through Cheryl and to Route 29 or to the school. And so obviously there are a lot of children walking back and forth to go to school, to and from school, parents. You saw my dog in the window. He's been waiting to go for a walk since about 7.30. And I actually am worried about taking him out tonight, which I will do momentarily because it's a very stark street. People when they're coming down South Virginia Avenue towards Sherrow, they make that right. There's no stop sign. There's no anything. They've just come corigning. And I'm not exaggerating around that corner. And then they're dodging the park cars on the street like Frogger almost. And then folks are crossing the street to walk their dog from one side of Cheryl to another to go to Winter Hill. And it's only a matter of time, quite frankly. Once time we had a tree down because of a storm, the police shut the street down to remove the tree. People were almost hitting the barricades because they weren't stopping there. So it's a dangerous situation. I personally have had three animals hit in front of my house to have been killed, two dogs in a cat. On camera, if anyone liked to see it, I did not want to see it, and unfortunately I did. It's a very dangerous situation. It's remarkably higher traffic, volume of traffic than we've had. I did submit written comments that you can read with some sites, you supporting citations for some of my facts here, but between that, but you know, between that just everyday traffic. And I know that they're doing the V.Dot is doing clover replacement over trips around non-charell avenue and that will happen. They're starting to design it now. There was a public meeting recently. Their website says it's currently scheduled to begin construction. I think mid-2026, I have a feeling that, you know, would people see that that road is closed? They're going to abruptly you turn and start speeding back down, Cheryl Abnoah. It's just going to make traffic worse with that part of the roadblocked off. I can tell you, I've watched people when they make that right-hand turn from South Virginia to Cheryl to go towards the school. I can tell you where it says 15 miles per hour. You guys have seen it. There's a curve that kind of goes to where trips were on it run is and then the school is on the right hand side. People gun it. So as they make that corner, they gun it down Sherrill and then they abruptly slam on their brakes at the 15 mile per hour. So the Du Bois that lived, I think the address of their house. Of course, I only know people by site, not their street address, 424, Cheryl Avenue. They had their van hit so hard because of the speed that it was pushed to the other side of the street onto someone's yard. So these are real concerns. These aren't just, I mean, I trust me. I better things to do than go do it, or do it and collect signatures. I mean, it's gotten so bad that I felt that I needed to personally do something about the nature of this traffic because God forbid there are kids up and down on this street crossing the street. It's honestly, I'm kind of the colon of the Canary Mine here. I'm telling you, it's a matter of time before someone gets hit and killed. Okay, Okay. I appreciate the fact that you are doing that. I appreciate that you waited so so long today. I neglected to say I guess it at the beginning of this. I think there's a couple minute limit for for comments. So I apologize. I didn't know that I will just end and I'll turn to my neighbor. I'll just say that we just need to stop sign South Virginia and share Avenue and then traffic, you know, sort of the speed bumps and homes that they have on other streets nearby this school. That's all. Thank you for thank you for your consideration. Thank you. So Arthur, do you? Yes. Thank you for taking the time to listen to our concerns. I can pretty much echo all of that Miss Kelly. It said I will add that it is dark at night and there is a concern when people do come around the corner from South Virginia on to share. A lot of people are walking their dogs are coming out of Cavalier Park through that little nub of Westmoreland Drive. They kind of diagonally cut across the street and there's always cars parked on either side. So if someone comes around the turn very fast and the people are walking their dog, it's pretty dangerous. I think it's only a matter of time before somebody is nearly hit. The other concern I would probably add is, and it's not this year, but for many years, my driveway is the bus stop for like the Mount Daniel kids. And, you know, kids are walking around the sidewalks there and some of them, you know, they're playing and they get into the street. If someone is speeding to go down to the school at the same time and one of the kids is stepping out on the street, this is a problem. I would hope that maybe you would consider putting speed tables on Cheryl just because it's a long straightaway. It's about a thousand feet. Anyway, I'm probably at my two minute limit. So thank you again. Thank you for your consideration. Mr. Rick, can I give a little comment back to Arthur and Allison? Yes, with just one comment though, David, I think we have had some interaction with people that have made comments. And I think we've decided we don't want to have an extended debate, but a few comments. I just want to say Bravo, because they also come around to go through the intersection without stopping. And they raised down the two streets that my daughters live on greenway and what are that's what are that's called west? Well, this is this is certainly the it's a game. It's a game. It's a game. It's a game. It's a game. It's a game. It's a game. It's a game. It's a game. It's a game. It's a game. It's a game. It. So who who who's going to come in on who who provides the monthly update? I think I just want to throw that out there. Yeah. And I and I wholeheartedly understand your concerns. Thank you. It's much appreciated. Thank you. So Jenna, this has your name on it, right? Yes, I brought up the updated Sherro Avenue case prioritization memo. You bring us the ACT this evening. The main updates made this the last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. The last one. So now this case has been brought back to CACT for prioritization. And staff recommends moving forward for development of light solutions for show Avenue. And the data collected on the street indicates a medium risk based on the formula and the updated version of the NTC handbook. I'm also happy to walk through the data again if anyone is interested. Um Sarah. Um, Jen, I'm curious. I think this was before I joined the committee. I'm curious if the data does the data take in that sharp then does it take in the actual road when it's looking at that in terms of blind size and the sharp curve that these cars are taking? It does not but again that can be an external factor CCT can consider in developing traffic calming solutions. The score is based off of power volume and speeds. And right here, the score is the average daily volume multiplied by the percent chance of severe pedestrian injury. Can I ask a very quick question to that? So then it wouldn't have taken into consideration the lack of a stop sign turning from South Virginia on. Sure. It truly just takes the speed but not the actual right. Okay, external factors of the road. Okay, thank you. So my question, Jenna. and it's two part, of course. Has staff, so I understand that in order to install, stop sign, there's certain requirements as far as number of vehicles passing through and what not had, has staff looked at that for this intersection? Not yet, but that can be something that I can bring back to engineering stuff. There would have to be a study conducted to see if a stop sign is warranted at that location, but again, that's something we can look into. Okay, I mean, I think that's definitely important. And then I'm also wondering why staff is recommending light solutions versus hard solutions because it, I mean, it seems me, you know, like most intersections in the city, a lot of them need to be redesigned and they need to have bump outs to make sure that cars are slowing down as they're taking turns. And so, that intersection definitely needs some reengineering. So I'm just curious as to what you guys are recommending like solutions. Again, that was what we started with as kind of a base point. And again, hearing public comments from tonight, we can revise that. We can add the review of SpeedHombs and to that when we're going to take a site visit to review and based on CACTs recommendation, we can move forward with other solutions as well. Thank you. Jenna ask a question when the staff is revisiting if you're doing a site visit. As you're revisiting that site, can the staff take into consideration the fact that it's a thorough fair to Oak Street for students walking. Cheryl leads to two parks of the city, Cavalier Trail and Herman, I'm forgetting the name of it. And just its proximity to a school. I'm just curious if those are gonna be considerations if there's a site visit. Definitely, yeah. Okay, on our previous site visits, we've looked at, um, feasibility of, uh, again, what CST recommends. And again, the, um, positioning of the street where the curves are stop signs. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So given that the recommendation, Jenna here is at CACT. Support moving forward. Do the comments today and you're mentioning of speed humps. of effect our voting on this today. No, there's going to be go ahead and vote to approve this. You're shaking your head, Jess, meaning we can't. Well, I don't think we want to approve them moving forward with light solutions. That's what the mouse is. So I can't speak for everybody. I think I speak for at least myself and Sarah. So that's so the. And for me, is it like it did it adds of an a light so we can do a vote. I mean, I would make a recommendation to vote against this recommendation. Well, we could do that or we get or we don't have to vote on it, right? We can we can just send it back without voting. Is that true? Well, in the past, theCT has put for the recommendation. So if you want to add to the staff recommendation of light solutions, CCT can recommend and vote for staff to look at light and heavy solutions. I think it will probably say more if we do an actual vote still. That's migrating recommendation. I'm up or down vote on the memo as it is is the post to modifying it with a heavy solution. So are you suggesting that we vote this down today and ask that to come back at the next meeting with a recommendation from light and heavy. Is that what you're suggesting? I am, Jenna. Did you have something to say? Yeah, to clarify the way these memos usually tend to follow out. Staff has their recommendation and then CACT can take that recommendation ad to it, decide where they want to go if that. And that's what's voted on. If the case, this is only case, not the memo. So if the case got, I guess, paused or voted down again, it wouldn't move forward in the process for traffic calming solutions, if that makes sense. If I may, it sounds like what the CACT wants to do is unpause the case and have staff look at. Developing both light and heavy solutions. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So how do we do that? That would be the motion. To to to unpause it and and for you to look at light and heavy solutions. Correct. That would be the motion that this that you all could make. Okay. I'd like to move the motion that the CACT. Ask staff to we decline the recommendation and we ask staff to look at both light and heavy solutions for sure evident. And on pause, and on pause the case. Do I need to say that again? Any second, the motion. Any discussion? No discussion. I'll just stand if we unpause it. Where does that fall in your list of things to be working on? Meaning how? How will this how well will this proceed? I can bring on the list. I have carried other cases, you mean? That's what I mean. I mean, you know, we've unpause it. So now we've added it to a bunch of other things. And I think we want to see it take some priority. I think, yeah, I would say because we haven't talked about the other ones yet. My recommendation would be to not mention that, and then that's a different conversation. Okay, I'm with you on there. That's my recommendation. Okay. Would anybody like to restate the motion? If minutes are getting it, I don't think we need to. Okay. I think the motion is to unpause. The share revenue and to ask the staff to proceed with consideration of light and heavy solutions. Is that what you proposed, Justin? Yes. Okay. Any further discussion? If not, all in favor? Aye. All right. All right. No one opposed. We have enough for we have we have four. That's all we need, right? Correct. Four is a nice one. Okay. Good. All right. one down. What's next? We want to move on to the other two cases for prioritization. Do we want to go through the general update, are there any updates from V.regarding Greenway Downs? So we thought we were going to get it back during the summer. Right, for Greenway Downs, it's still on track to get those approval from V. And then also to start the IFB process as well. I think that was pretty much the same update as last month. Yeah. I was just hoping for a little bit more. But OK, thanks. So why don't we go ahead with the update? Okay. Okay. Okay, so I just went through. Again, the updates for greenery Downs to improve final design, final product design plans. And the start of getting the IFB is also going to again soon as well. Moving down to Noon Street, this is the same update as last CSC team meeting, working group to provide additional feedback on the proposed East Jefferson Street. Again, no update here, the same installation period for fall or early winter 2024, those speed humps. And that'll be with coronation of the annual paving plans for that street as well. So when the street is getting paved, that's when the speed homes would also go in. Our Southwest Street similar update to last month. Staff is still working on reviewing the feedback from the new herd working group. And the follow up with additional solutions to look at request retriever control and also with revisiting the conversation around speed humps and snow emergency routes. And also similar with North Roosevelt Street, staff is also going to follow up with the neighborhood working group regarding the traffic calming solutions and looking into additional quests, hopefully get back to them as soon as we can. Any questions on the current list of active cases? All right, so that was the updates from active cases. And I can go back over to the prioritization memo for Fowler Street. Good. We'll use to. All right. So some updates have been made to this prioritization memo since the last brought to CACT. CACT voted to pause the case back in March for six months to allow staff to proceed with other cases in the NTCQ. And back to the request in recommendation, staff recommends moving forward with the development of light solutions for Fowler Street. Fowler Street indicated a low risk level, again, based on the formula and the updated NTC handbook. I can also walk through the data again for this one. No one needs to refresh her. I'm trying to figure out which cases, you know, you guys are actively working on right now and it looks like the West the West Street project I get is still ongoing you know we just asked you to look at the Cheryl project for heavy solutions and then the Nolan Street project looks like we're waiting on feedback. So you know is I guess my question is are you asking to you know light solutions just because of the risk level or because of the case load, I guess, is my question. The white solutions for the street in particular were picked because of the low risk level. I can scroll down just to the data for Fowler. Actually helps seeing it in comparison to other cases here. So you can see the grouping here. You can see Cheryl over here as a medium risk level in part of Fowler. And then down here, you can see average data volume. Through and then the scoring. The heavy solutions would likely not be a staff recommendation for Fowler Street. Do we know what the working group or the petition requested? I think a concern, at least from the request or for Fowler Street, was I think children playing around in the street, how sometimes cars can come by. Again, the data at least that was collected, reflected. I believe, let's see. There we go. The Post-it-SPE limit for FOWER is 20 miles an hour and the average speeds came in at 23, 22 miles an hour. I have a question. Okay, I'll just try to make sure I understand the percentile speed. So, okay, if we're looking at the bottom here, we're like Thursday, January 30th. So 85th percentile speed, I just wanna understand that correctly. 80, so 85% of the cars were 28 miles per hour below, is that, am I interpreting that correctly? Yes. Fine. Yes. So is the 50th and the 85th percentile. So because I understand you guys are reporting on the same percentiles, you know, for every case. And I, you know, so my question is, is that like a standard that it's a 50th and 80 50th? Because I'm like, I think I would be more interested to know, like, what is the percentile of people speeding, which is 20 miles per hour, right? Like, instead of like, okay, 85% of the people are going below 20, I don't feel like that makes, I don't, I don't, doesn't say that much to me. So is it, is it possible to change that or is that just kind of like the standard reporting standard? I understand. That's a standard reporting just from traffic data perspective. Because this is really what the 85th percentile that's, that's what's looked at the most. Compared to average. So I just I do want to say for the benefit of the whole group that a major factor in the council decided into adopt 25 miles per hour was because there's a significant difference between a car traveling at 25 miles per hour versus 20 miles per hour. So, you know, in our heads, we don't think that there's that much of a difference between 25 and 20, but there actually is as far as survivability just so on that out there. Well, they adopted 20 recently and you mentioned 25. They must have adopted 25 before I was on CACT. So you mentioned the council adopting 25. When did they adopt 25? No, I'm sorry. I didn't, I meant, I don't know how long it's been 25. I meant to say 20 when they made the decision to adopt 20 miles per hour. It was because the statistics were overwhelmingly showing that the survivability rate increased dramatically the lower the speed limit. I will also jump in and note it's past 9 p.m. Yes, thank you. So we need a motion to continue if we want to continue. And for what period time I'll make a motion to continue to 930. I'll second the motion. Okay. Let me. Okay. That's fine. Just is a comment we. I don't recall a meeting we've been in when it hasn't gone beyond nine. I'm wondering if you know we can think about ways that we can accelerate this process otherwise it's just it's an unrealistic deadline. And I'm assuming there's no or let me ask the question. Is there any particular reason that we have 9 p.m. Is the deadline is opposed to 9 30 given that we frequently go to 9 30? Is anyone know? I'm not sure I think the past chair Aaron Camshire advocated for an earlier end time. But again that can be revisited and the roles to procedure as well. Well, I think I think that Stewart, I think there's another aspect is some of the people here are it's their paid job and they've already done eight hours today and we're volunteers. So I think nine is a reasonable amount. I think we should I would say we should look at our agenda and make it more realistic for a three-hour meeting, a two-hour meeting and open, not try to load it up. I'm in favor of that, David. Just, I guess it's just something we need to... There's no silver bullet here, right? We just have to think about how to do that. I mean, all the things on the agenda are damned important, but... I think we need to help... You know, help ourselves, help Jenna get the agenda to a good focus to our chunk of time. I would tell you the one thing that I thought is that we have a professional staff that is making recommendations and if we were more trusting is the word that comes to mind and supportive of the staff work we might we might be able to get through it a little more quickly that's one of one of the thoughts I'd had. Okay, just you you may just... I have a question. Sorry. Can I ask a question, Jenna and Carrie, are you guys compensated more for your evening requirements? So we do get calm time and there's also the ability to flex hours. So, you know, start the day later on days that we have evening meetings or come in later the following day. Those are also options. Good. You don't get like time and a half or double time pay or anything like that. No, so, no, that's sort of a different category. There are city employees who fall into that category, but comp time is available. And so there's sort of an opponent time off. Thank you. Okay. So Jess, you made a motion to extend to 930 to someone second. Sarah, did you second? All right, all in favor. Hi. Hi. Opposed? Right, motion carries. All right, so going back to Fowler, are there any additional comments or questions on this case? Not hearing any. Let's move forward. Do we need to put this to a vote? Yes, this is also an act item of motion. And do we know what the working group has said about their requests for solutions? The requester again stated how children in the street pedestrian safety concerns and also notice feeding concerns as well. Okay, but as far as the light versus heavy solutions, was there any indication, has the working group and put together yet or anything. The working group isn't formed until after staff reviews and this case gets unpost. Is this currently paused? Yes, all these cases coming forward tonight are currently paused. Okay. Yes, all these cases coming forward tonight are currently paused. Any other comments about this recommendation? The unpause it into move forward with light solutions. All motion to unpause the Fowler Street NTC project and move forward with light solutions. Thank you. I will second that. Thank you. Discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion passes. All right, and then next one up is on popular drive hill. The background on this is that CST voted to pause the case also back in June of this year for three months to allow staff to proceed with other cases in the queue. And the study area for popular drive hill includes popular drive, Robinson Place, Tracy Place, and Gibson Place. And with that staff recommends moving forward with the development of late solutions for a popular drive hill. The data collected in the study area also indicated a low risk level. Again, based on the same formula used in the handbook. Yes. So the challenge with this case, I just want to remind everybody that this is just directly but the Greenway Downs case, right? So the Greenway Downs part of that is all the way from Cameron to Rosemary. And then you've got the three, the three going up to popular, right? So Robinson, Tracy, Gibson, Place, and then Poplar's on it. So it's kind of, you know, it wasn't included in the area, included in the what he called the Greenway Announce Project area, but the concern from one of the residents on Poplar Drive is that once all of these traffic comedy solutions are implemented and the rest of the green white balance area, speed humps and intersection redesigns with bump outs, whatnot, the concern is that they're going to start using these side streets as a cutthroat. So, I mean, it's a theory. We all know that vehicles, they're motorists are using all kind, like any cutthroat they can make, right? Like just with Shero, Shero was another example of they're gonna just try to take the fastest route they can. So it's a theory that the cut-through traffic is going to increase. So I don't know that I necessarily have a recommendation with this. Unfortunately, Greenway Downs case is still a year or two helped from actually being construction. So anyway, I just want to throw out there for food for thought. Well, jumping ahead, Janet was this further down in this one, because I did not read this one, is there a suggestion for a light solution study? There is, yes, under the recommendation. Because I think of that area as basically, a sleepy part of the city, and that it's seat and lane that's going to end up getting that cut through as opposed to those three up the hill. All right. Well, seen is getting. It's part of green. We don't each of the yeah, each of the the racetrack roads are getting at least two speed humps. And by that, I mean, those all those parallel streets, right, that, you know, George Mason, Cameron, Greenway, Boulevard, but seen is also getting a couple of speed humps as well. And so that's why that's why the theory is that that poplar might become another the alternate case for. Okay so for right now I would I will make a motion to keep this table. You opposed your post-recommendation? Yes. David? Yeah, I think it should just stay tabled for now. There's so many other things to be done. And this, this, the my reasoning a very low propensity for big problems. One thing I do just feel I should flag is that again, I'm just going to raise the sight line of and the visibility given that this is a hill. So we're not talking about a street road visibility of drivers.'re talking about. Barely steep hill. It is a very steep hill. Yeah. Another thing to point out is that those the side streets, the Gibson Tracy, Robinson have no sidewalks on either side. A little bit more background information. The intersections of Roseemary and Gibson, Rosemary and Robinson, Rosemary and Tracy. Yeah. Unfortunately, the Rosemary working group did not opt for those sections to be redesigned. Even though I think in my, you know, I'm not a traffic coming expert or, you know, engineer or anything, but like, but those intersections should be redesigned so that people cannot take them so fast, you know, just like at Churro and Virginia. Yeah. Unfortunately, they opted to not do that. I will tell you personally, I'm pretty sure it was just working group taking more liberties than they should have. And anyway, I'll leave it at that. Well, is there anyone here who was strongly favors accepting this recommendation? Sarah, are you supporting it? I think I support light solutions given the hill. I believe popular also doesn't have sidewalk at least for a portion if not for that. Yeah, it does not. That's also can be a consideration. No. And when you're turning off of seat and on to popular, there's obstruction like sight-mine problems, which is scary. Yeah, there is. And it's not until the other side of popular, the other side of Timberland that popular gets sidewalks. Let me restate why I voted, why I made that motion was not because it's so, that it doesn't have merit and need to be done. It's just so far this evening, it's there's so many other things. I wonder, I would ask, I guess I would ask whether adding one more project is going to slow other things down. Well, that's an issue of the resources that the staff has. Yes, that's right. Okay. What are your thoughts about that, Jenna? I will say, again, with the cases that staff is currently working on, those will be, especially those with working groups already, those are higher up in the queue currently. So those would be prioritizing away too. But if these were all unpause, they would staff would begin the process of looking at them. Again, looking at funding for the program, there is at least resources in that respect available. I guess I'm unclear as to the prioritization of these cases in terms of being unpost. They're all sort of equally have equal merit, do they? In a way, yes. What I'm referring to is the cases that are currently active now that are further along. I know already have kind of active requests to get back to working groups. And again, East Jefferson will be mostly coming off of workloads and sets been passed and in for installation of speed humps there. So if you consider that as well. Again, Southwest is also a major priority from conversations recently. But those three cases would be added here. Well, is this proposal back to back to pop up or drive hill? Is this recommendation and I. Don't don't see it now. Is this recommendation. Cover a through F or just A at this point. The answer was A only. Can you clarify what you mean by A through F? Well, so action item five, proper, proper drive hill. As I always see. Right. Oh, this is just traffic data for Eason streets here for which street? So B through F under action item five for popular drive hill that those are just traffic data. And you have recommendations for each of those or that's just information that you're going to provide. Her popular drive Robinson Tracy and Gibson, those streets all make up popular drive hill. That's like the area neighborhood. So that's the data that needs to be collected or the data that exists. This is the traffic data that was collected. Okay. So that's the data that needs to be collected or the data that exists. This is the traffic data that was collected. Okay, so that's the backup data that led to the idea that it should be a light solution. Right, since if any of the members are interested in diving more into the data, looking at the numbers at times. Jenna, if we vote to unpause the case and move ahead with light solutions and the working group is, you know, formed and they think they need heavy solutions. Is that something they can come back to us with? Yes. Yes. I would like to make a motion that we'll support this one. Okay. All in favor? Say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed. Then opposed. It passes. Thank you. Okay, so we've done follow, we've done pop up or hill, then Cheryl. We've done the update. So we've done with NTC. Yes, NTC is complete. Excellent. Thank you. And there's four minutes left till 930. So, I'm going to go to the next slide. I'll go to the next slide. I'll go to the next slide. I'll go to the next slide. I'll go to the next slide. I'll go to the next slide. I'll go to the next slide. I'll go to the next slide. I'll go to the next slide. I'll go to the next slide. I'll go to the next slide. I'll go to the next slide. of consideration of to improve annual paving program funding memo. I didn't get a revision of that until until earlier today that I sent. I think to I think I sent a copy to you, Jennifer, right? I can bring it up if you like. This is the old version I have. Did you get the version I sent today? Can you bring that? Yes. Okay. Here. Stewart, where did that come from that you sent? I, I produced it because last last last month I, I, I signed up. I was volunteered and agreed to revise the memo that John Benthrop, who has been patiently waiting and we see is still here listening now. Okay, thank you. So, let's see, if you bring that up, I can go through the memo that the draft, the key points. So the memo actually that John had prepared was from him to art with recommendations in terms of what to do. As I understood, the things that we wanted at the meeting the last month was that I create a memo that CACT would send to the City Council with specific recommendations. And so we discussed last week or last month rather, John had gone through the analysis of the 84 miles that are in the city that the city is responsible for maintaining and based upon DPW information, you know, saw that significant, that the rate of maintenance that the city is currently engaged in, it would take I think 40 years at best before all those, before the maintenance would be caught up with, if you pardon my grammar, and that the recommendations, the industry recommendations are that the streets be recycled, I guess is the term, on about a 15 to 25 year interval. And so John had come up with proposal that appears there. I left that basically intact a schedule. I think the rate of repair had been operating over the last couple of years at two and a half, at an average of two and a half miles per year. And John was suggesting that that be accelerated to six miles per year. And for three years in order to sort of catch up and that the city then move into a more realistic maintenance and repair schedule. So I do note it is now 930. So we can stop now or we can take a few more minutes and to go further on this. If someone wants to make a motion. I'll motion to extend the meeting to 940. Okay. So this is this. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. All in favor. Hi. Thank you. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? passes. Right. Okay. So this memo also has estimates of the amount of of the dollars associated with this increased maintenance would move from 800,000 a year to 2.4 million, which is directly proportional to the fact that three times as many miles would be maintained and repaired over the next three years. In addition to that, it recommends that there be an index, a pavement condition index prepared to objectively make assessments of the quality of the seats in the streets in order to prioritize the maintenance that would be carried forward. And one of the modifications I made in this memo was to suggest that after the three years, after after a three year period that PCI be conducted and then after that PCI is conducted. more or less make an assessment as to what the nature of the condition of the streets would be. And one of the reasons for that, I'm speaking John, to you in particular given that you of course created this, is my understanding and maybe Jenna, you are familiar with this as well that the 800,000 that is spent annually in the city on average to repair roads doesn't do what we might call heavy reconstruction of roads. What it does is milling and resurfacing of I think it's two inches. And so that's fine for certain roads, but roads that need more extensive repairs, obviously need more than just milling and resurfacing. That's why I would suggest here that after three year, three year period, this PCI be conducted and there be an assessment as to what would be required going forward. The other point that we talked about last month was this issue of whether or not to support removal or continued use of bricks in the roadways. And what I'm suggesting here is that, the use of bricks is a matter of aesthetics, it's not in there really for any other reason. No, not the reason that I'm aware of. We have bricks sidewalks in the city, and clearly there's a lot of concern about aesthetics in the city everything from You know from the lamps that we have and and and they wear for wayfaring signs and so on So that I'm not actually proposing in this in this memo Suggesting that we would send to the city council that CACT oppose the continued use or actually propose removal of bricks from the roadways. That's sort of a summary here of this memo and again my apologies for not having sent it to anyone before. We can certainly talk about it and decide what to do, but if anything to do. So Stu, I would agree with you that probably leave the brick part out of this just to keep it more sustained and focused and that it sounds like to me that the city is doing some kind of trial period because they recently installed a brick crosswalk and a stamp payment crosswalk. I think that's a good idea to not have the brick part. It's interesting and I think it demands its own. I think it demands its own. I think it demands its own. I think it demands its own. I think it demands its own. I think it demands its own. I think it demands its own. I think it demands its own. I think it demands its own. I think it demands its own. I think it demands its own, I think it demands its own effort and opinions and assessments, but it's really not about repaying. It takes away from the repaving. So I'd be interested in John's comments but I don't know if it's I've aligned to invite him. Councilman Snider Scott has hand up. Yes. Councilman Snyder. Sure. Well thanks a lot for the work and thanks for a push to do more paving. I think tripling the amount may be a bit aggressive. So I may want to say up to or a goal of, I think I'd appreciate a little bit of flexibility there, but I do appreciate all the work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. John? You're muted. You're still muted, John. Top right. Did somebody like mute everybody? I'm not muted. I'm not. You're not. You're not. In the chat, he's saying he was muted and he can't undo it. Oh no. It's not a way for me to do it. I don't think. Can he type that? Can you type that? That's because, you know, why? That's probably because art, Arthur's just was the starter of the call. I created the meeting so. Oh, so we can blame you. Oh. I don't know how I think this is. Everybody else seems to be able to mute and unmute, right? Yeah, I'm not sure. It might be a technical thing on John's end. Sure. Are you able to type something for us, Sean. Yeah, we could do it that way. Okay, looks like he's typing. Is it anyone seeing it in the chat? Yeah, I see the bubble that he's he's taking it out. Okay, ironically, my team's chat is not working. Oh, my team's just it's my team's it's been weird all day. Okay. I'm not really very familiar with chats. Okay. It's coming through. Okay. It's coming through. Okay. Improve the documents. So thanks. I agree 2.4 million is aggressive, but it misses the point that we, that as we delay, the cost goes up significantly. Okay. The cost from 25 year to 15 year doubles. OK. So then maybe Mr. Snyder would be happy if we were if if if this memo worked to suggest a doubling of the, up to a doubling or? Maybe we could, John added, I suggest we run the numbers by DPW to see what they think before we change the wording in that. Yeah. There certainly is background in DPW and the work that John did in terms of, of what has happened over over the years in terms of expenditures for, for road maintenance and there was a time that it was higher and then it went down maybe I think as low as is, is 400,000 and it's been in the millions and the millions before. So it's a number that it seemed that it seemed a lot of a lot of variation over the over the last over the last few years. Just if I might since I was asked to just the guy I think you can set a very aggressive goal. I just think that from my perspective, I don't want to over promise, but this is an area where I'm totally in agreement that we should do more, and I will advocate that we do more. Okay. So that would be my suggestion. Well, I agree for everybody on council agrees that safety is, you know, one of the highest priorities. So. So you're. Councilman, sorry, you're, you're comfortable with with with us with us, ask suggesting up to 2.4. Yeah, comfortable with that or no? Yep. Yep. Let's push it. But I just want folks to know that what will happen is that this will be part of a budget back and forth. And I, of course, I don't want to over promise, but it's reasonable that you press for that. And up to or a goal of would be very helpful. I think that makes the point very strongly. Well, I for one appreciate your efforts and won't hold you to delivering the full amount. Jenna, can you capture for later the meeting chat because John is making some good points. Yes, I can include that. If you could capture those, that would be helpful because we're at the close of the meeting. Thank you, John. Thanks, John. Okay, do we need a motion on this? Do we? At this point, we want to. Give everyone a chance to read it and. And vote on it at the next. At the next meeting. I'd like to suggest that yes. Okay. Is there a reason that we couldn't amend it. If we were in agreement with the. the changes and then someone sends it out and then everybody gives a thumbs up and then we don't have to wait for a whole month. Is that is that possible. I don't know the answer to that. I don't know what the what the pressing. I don't know that this is pressing. Okay. In terms of the, you know, it's not as though even, it's not as though the city council's even gonna look at this in the next month as far as I know, it's not part of the current budget process. Yeah, David, would we miss, David, if we waited a month, would we miss any kind of a window for it to be, you know, where it comes to being money? No, not for the next year's budget. Now we'll start this fall talking about any surpluses. And that's always a very interesting discussion. But, but no, I don't think so. But if you want to do something tonight, I would be perfectly comfortable with, you know, the the goal being or up to 2.4. And it's just totally up to the group as to how you want to proceed. But I like pushing on it. Thank you for that. Well, look, I'm perfectly happy with, with making this update to this update to this draft and sending it out and giving everyone a chance to look at it. And at the next meeting voting to send it or not to send it, that way it's not rushed through. Yeah, and taking out the brick part, I think that was. Yeah, a lot of nods about that or maybe throw it into an appendix or something. Yeah, it's just it's a separate item. I mean it it it is separated. It's important to separate. Yeah, we're not we're not recommending it. In fact, what it says. Cool. Okay, do we need a motion on it? Or no, there wasn't an emotion made last month that I do this, I don't think. And so there needn't be a motion here. I will unless someone wants to make one. I will revive this and send it out. It should be included in next month's materials. Very good. All right. So are we at the end of the meeting? Yeah, it's past 940. So yes. Okay. Jess, I'm sorry if I interrupted you earlier just a moment ago. Okay. So do we have it? Do we have another anyone want to make a make a motion to to go another minute anything about parking day or national walk walk day that anyone wants to talk about? You move. I'm sorry. You move. I'm sorry. Does anybody have any recommendations for next month's agenda? Hearing none, I will make a motion to end the meeting. Second. Any discussion? All in favor? I. Thank you very much. Good night, everybody. Thank you very much. Thank you for your patience being here for so long. Thank you. Cheers. Thank you. Have a good night. Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. Bye.