you you you you you you you you you Okay. Can you come in? Yes. Commissioner Follady? Present. Commissioner Reiker? Present. Vice Chair Sloan. Present. Chair Walker? Present. Chair Walker. President. Falls. President. Someone want to do the invocation of the prayer. I will. I will. Lord, thank you for the chance to serve our community. We pray for your wisdom. Pray, Lord, that we do a great job of meeting all the needs that we can this tonight. Guide us through each decision and deliberation in Jesus' name, amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. First item of this is the approval of the regaining minutes from July 18th. Can I get a motion to approve? So moved. Second. On favor? Aye. The minutes are heard as written. The next item of this is a presentation of our landmark lover of our review of our insurance claim and payment applications. Good evening. Good evening. Thank you for coming. You're welcome. Thank you for coming. You're welcome. Thank you so much. I think I may tell you that my grandfather with a Methodist, not a Baptist, please, you shall be brief. Oh, I love it. Again, thank you so much for having us. My name is Mark Oliver, and I'm the Public Secretary for Keys claims consultant. I'm here with my colleague, India Donna Storgh. And we represent the private insurance claims side for New Sumerna Beach. We've been involved with Theresa and her staff over the last year. And I've had some medical success. And so what we wanted to do without going into too much detail, let's give you an update in terms of where we are with that process. Keys claims has worked across multiple industries literally around the globe, and has recovered billions of dollars for the insured. We won't recover billions for New Sumerna, but we're going to try it. We've had our experts come out, look at your structures, make some various assessments, put together your professional claims package. We've submitted that about three months ago. The carrier has received it. They did a preliminary, quote-unquote, re-inspection. And they are now suggesting that before we get into kind of the nickel and dime situation, that they want to do a full inspection. It's another tactic that's oftentimes used in delay, but no blessings to late or not blessings to night. And so we're very confident in the numbers that we put together. We were in testify to each and every dime. And that's where we're in the process of doing, I spoke with the case manager earlier, Tim Rothring, who was not able to be here tonight. And he has been in contact with the carrier. They will be getting back to you Teresa this week with regard to the dates that they'll do their re-inspection of the units. So where we are is you're in a very good position in terms of the numbers that we've submitted for demand. It's at this point I think about 15X of what they initially tried to offer you. So I'm sorry, but you repeat that I didn't hear that. 15 times what was initially offered. Okay, so what that means is that you are going to be in a very beneficial position subsequently to it. We expect that we'll be able to complete the inspections prayerfully by, you know, the end of September. And then we'll either go to arbitration or mediation. You know, in alternative dispute resolution solution. And that typically takes another 45 days. So we're trying to get this done before the end of the year for you guys, OK? Will you go to mediation first before arbitration? Yes, typically that's the way the wish it works. So that's on the problem show. Do I miss anything? What's that? That's on the problem show inside there. I miss anything. That's correct. Rick? I'm messing with you, man. All right, so that's on that side. The other side of it is that we recognize that there are what we came and talked to all about initially was a holistic approach to recovery. That would include and not be limited to just the private insurance components. We have FEMA, which is the public assistance piece, worked with Teresa, her consultant, her development consultant, and others in order to be able to put together some recovery aspects to include elevation projects that we're in the process of making sure that are dealt with. The deadline for the notice of intent is August 30th of this month and so we're working as a two-page thing so don't get worried. Days away. Yeah, we're team minus 17 days, but we had a conversation about it Theresa and our leadership had a conversation about it today and we're going to be moving forward on that to make sure that those deadlines are met and that the placeholders put in. Typically the way in which it goes is that you have a public assistance piece but then you also have hazard mitigation. You have structural heartening. You have, there's opportunities there for infrastructure. Typically, organizations that serve the public need for the most needy float to the top. So we anticipate that the Newsomark Housing Authority will be well positioned to secure some funds over and above the funds that you're already looking at for your public assistance piece. Does that make sense? That's correct. That's all I have. I told you, method is not bad. That's all I have. I told you, method is not bad. That's all I have. I told you, method is not bad. That's all I have. I told you, method is not bad. That's all I have. I told you, method is not bad. That's all I have. I told you, method is not bad. That's all I have. the numbers that you put forth. The challenge here is that we have world-class experts. We've invested a lot of money, several hundred thousand dollars, to make sure this stuff is proofed up. So when we say it's X, it's not X minus, it's not X plus, it's X. And when you say they're at 15 times their initial offer, is that the offer to us that's on the table now? No, you've already already kind of accepted your first initial payment, right? Okay. First initial payment was a little less than $500,000. So what is that 15 ex again? That's our demand. So we're about, you know, I don't want to say it public because I know the stuff is, you know, so we're still in the midst. But the number is more than five, less than 20. Okay. I mean, what the number is that we put forth is the number that's in the estimate that was submitted to the carrier. And so Teresa has that and she you know but we don't want to we don't want to you know go out lasting that right. I understand. So the timeline again could you summarize that the yeah we um I mean you know we're we're ready we're at the ready we're ready to go they are suggesting that oh well we want to go back and take a and take another look even though they've now looked three times but you know part of your responsibility as a policy holder is you've got to give them unfettered access to inspect to read to respect as reasonably as they wish. So you don't want to be in breach of your responsibilities. So we're basically saying, okay, you want to respect, let's do it. But let's get on with it. Simidiation may occur in October, November? Yeah, that's what we're thinking. We're thinking it's going to happen before things get. Okay. thinking we're thinking it's going to happen before before before things get okay is that really can't tear anything down until they finish the inspection because didn't we apply for that we have to give them notice if we if we plan on tearing something down we have but the inspections will happen over the next I'd say three weeks so unless you got bulldozers on property, we should be okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, we should be good. Section 18 application went in last week for the demo Dispo. All right. Thank you all so much for the opportunity to serve. Thank you. Very helpful. Thank you also much for the opportunity to serve. Thank you very helpful. Thank you. Okay, our Good housing partners our developers we're not able to come tonight. They're going to come to this September meeting with Jen Dixon So we have Attorney Gilmore that will be Talking to us about the contracts that we discussed last month. And those are in your blue folders. Well, the mission is, first of all, let me apologize. The fact that Mark was going to be here, I would address a little bit better, but since I was on the road here most of the day and I'm going to be on the road back when I finish. I thought I'd be a little casual if you'll forgive me that. Different from Mark, my grandfather was a Baptist preacher so I may be a little bit longer winded than him. I might have a little bit more to talk to you about tonight that's going to be a little faster happening than whatever's going to happen with insurance. So you have blue binders, as I understand it, and your blue binders you should have. Cockroos of contracts from other housing authorities that I provided as just an example and copy We're having a little trouble hearing it. Can you move the microphone over? I've been accused of having to solve this. Thank you. Okay. You should have copies of the contracts from other housing authorities that I provided just as a backdrop And maybe a copy of Teresa's contract. I'm gonna talk about her contract if you don't have it in front of you If you need it, I think she'll be able to pass out a copy of it Okay, so two things we're gonna talk about tonight. We're gonna talk about a updated we're going to talk about tonight. We're going to talk about a updated newer version of her contract with the housing authority and what a proposing should happen between the not-for-profits and her. So starting with her existing contract. I want to talk about the Titusville contract as being the best example of a contract between her contract and the contract that I kind of proposed using these days. One of the reasons why is that's a contract that I put together for Brian Clark. Some of you have been on the board long enough to know that Brian Clark was the executive director at this house authority several years ago. And again, if you want to talk about any of the rest of them, please feel free. But the base is all going to be the same. So some of the things that I'm proposing concerning a newer contract, it's not interresist current contract, is if you have the Titusville contract, which is the Brown Clark contract, and you go to page four of that contract. Page four. What normally happens in contracts that I put together for housing authority executive directors is that if a COLA, which is a cost of living adjustment, is determined for all other staff, that the executive director gets the same COLA. Let me remind you that a COLA is not a race. It is a cost of living adjustment. If you all determine when you do your approval of a budget, that a potential COLA can be given depending on the economic circumstances, that would be up to a Theresa to determine what goes to staff. You still will be aware of it because it's part of the budget. But in the contracts that we put together, because it's a cost of living adjustment, not a raise, that same percentage would go to the executive director. Any questions about that potential change? Okay? I would also ask you look at page six of the Titus Mill contract. Let me know when you get there. Got it? Page six? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. the use of her personal vehicle. The way this is written is to cover two eventualities. Number one is if Teresa is using her personal vehicle, that there will be a monthly allowance for that. Number two, if that changes at any time during the time of this contract, and the authority is going to provide a vehicle for her use. That's also covered in this clause. Now, the trend is for executive directors and CEOs to go to using their own vehicle. Remember that the executive director is on call 24 hours a day. So the potential for her to have the use on vehicle, even on the weekends, for instance, the reason why Mark is here. There's a hurricane, if there's an emergency, the executive director still has to respond to that. The range for an allowance that I've seen in most contracts runs between $500 and $750. It has a lot to do with the size of the authority. How many apartment complexes have to be available for the ED to survey. But what is not there now in her contract is this set amount. The thing what you do now is whatever the hour's knowledge is That's not what the trend is That I'm sorry at what that is not what the trend is and why is that? It's because the executive director's own call 24 hours a day. They have to be available That may not be adequate for the personal use as opposed to a car that you all provide. This tires, oil, all of the upkeep, all the maintenance, all of those things are things that now are in contracts that are covered. This is not included in the executive director uses the housing authority vehicle. Are you using the housing authority vehicle? We do not have a housing authority vehicle. Such as a truck. Some authorities have a vehicle that is dedicated to the use of the executive director. If in fact you get to that point and that's what you want to do, this contract term covers that. That's then in lieu of the car allowance. So if we are continuing to move more toward section 8 and less toward public housing, there's less calls, less visits because you're not going to go over to some of the apartment buildings and do anything because that is the manager of the apartment building who's dealing with those tenants. As you move more to a section 8 model, some of that is true. But anything that the housing authority is involved in, still the executive director or the CEO, whatever the title is, is still going to have to be involved in that. Especially crisis management, making sure that the properties are kept up by the property manager. Those type issues I think still exist. And would you think about how much car allowance to give based upon how many miles the executive director is using with their personal car? You could use that as a model. I'm suggesting a car allowance. I gave you a range that I'm seeing in other contracts. That amount is in the end up to you if you decide to adopt what I'm going to suggest. I think it would be prudent to get input from your executive director. Not exactly what you're asking about, because you already has some experience in how many miles and what she's covering. That's, I think that's important to know, Theresa, how many miles you're using on your personal car that you're, how quickly do you have to buy a new car because you're going X amount of miles on the car? Okay, when I was in sales we started out at 500 a month But I was running all over Valuesha County and then I think I got them to give me up to 750 and that was the most the company Would give it didn't matter how many miles to travel that was it and I was putting oh my gosh 30,000 miles a year on my car. And you just used the two numbers I use. Bottom line top. I know. But I understand your clarification. Putting a lot of miles on my car. I understand you for that. So I think it's important that we have a small city. How many miles can you go from one end to the other and what not so I think that's important in our consideration. I'm not I'm not I'm not not in favor of a car allowance I've I've even asked Teresa are you sure you want this because it's going to be taxed you know so we you give you we give you four five hundred or whatever and you take 20% off or 15 or whatever tax bracket, well 20% off, you might be making out better just getting that cash, but it's whatever makes you comfortable and what's fair. And what you just said is what other boards have had to consider. A $500 allowance is not a $500 allowance when she factor in taxes, that kind of thing. So it's a consideration for you all. The cause is what I'm pushing, which you need to come up with a number. I will leave up to you you. Any further questions about this one? Are we deciding on this tonight? I don't think so. I think we'd like to have some information on what you pass for your personal questions. Well, it's not on the agenda, so we can't vote on it. So we're discussing it and Rick is presenting. Okay. Yeah. I think I'm here to answer questions put forward what I'm suggesting. And what you're seeing. And what I'm seeing. Mm-hmm. So. The other thing about carl ounces is to y'all it's just a whole lot easier on her. She has to like a snitch. She gets in the car. She has to mark down the mileage, where did you go? Then I go to McDonald's for lunch, stop the mileage. Then I need McDonald's, start the mileage. I mean every single time she gets in the car, she has to mark that down. So it's a lot easier to have a car allowance if that's what Theresa wants. I'm in favor of giving it to you. I just would want to be fair as to, well, how many miles really are you traveling and be sure that you're covered to some degree, but yet not over-covering? It's like, I appreciate what you said. And incidental use is something I'm going to talk about in a few minutes because you just talked about what sometimes is a sticky point which is incidental use. So later I'm going to cover that. So my suggestion to you Teresa is use the mileage I put on my car, give them that, give them that to work with. It's a joke. I put a lot of miles on my car. How far do you drive to come here? Yeah, just just today I put a lot of miles on my car. Okay, I'm ready to of mouths on my car. OK, I'm ready to move on to the next item if you want. I'd like to say something regarding that. I don't just travel through New Smarter Beach. There's times when I'm working on development things that I have to take papers to Volusia County to the land at the split second. So there's times I have to go to the land and Daytona and different things to file paperwork with the courts. So can you give us some idea, like how many miles business-wise you put it because you're having to keep track of it for the IRS from selling you. Give us, do you know that now? No, I don't know that right off hand. Okay. I gave it to it's on you. No, I don't know that right, right off end. Okay. I gave it just on you. Okay. That would be good. Okay, ready for the next one? You mean there's three? I have to be up here. My grandfather was a Baptist preacher. I got an... Inbilable hours. I never mentioned that. I never mentioned that. We're on the public record, but you're right. Okay. So I want to talk about number 10, a page 10. I'm sorry, page 10. So now this is a bit of a departure because this is the way I like to put together a contract or some things for the board, there are some things for the executive director, it needs to be balanced in some ways. So one of the things, again, is going to be more on the executive director side, but I'm going to temper it in a few minutes, is if in fact you decide that you want to get rid of your executive director without cause. I don't think this will happen here, but it does happen on occasion. So, if that's what you decide to do, you should be able to do that. But we want to buy, you will protection from litigation. How do you do that? You have a separation amount that you pay if you decide to do that. A separation amount. Sometimes call severance, but I call it something different in my contract. This is undetermination. I see it on the title contract contract. You mean in Theresa's current contract? Yes. Yeah, we do have it. Yeah, if you have it. I don't see it. It's on page six. I don't see it. Page seven is on page eight. Top of page eight. E. E. Top of page eight. Six months What I'm seeing at other housing authorities is longevity Get rewarded in some ways especially if you just decided to get rid of her food without cause. What I'm saying is, as an ED has been there longer and longer periods of time, that amount goes up. I'm going to suggest to you that one year, instead of six months, should be something you should consider. That's the pattern I'm seeing. Remember I said there'll be some things for the executive director within some things something you should consider. That's the pattern I'm seeing. Remember I said there'll be some things for the executive director, when there's some things for the board. Currently, in Theresa's contract, it takes a super majority to terminate her. That's four, not just a simple majority. Three. I don't ever put a supermajority in my contract. It's up to you if you want to keep that, but the reason why is this. And this is not something to reason I agree on. If you want to get rid of your executive director for cause, you need to be able to do that with a simple majority. If someone is accused of stealing money, if someone is accused of sexual harassment, the things that you're going to see enumerated in my contract and he's be clear that a simple majority can Get rid of the executive director under those circumstances If you want to terminate without cause In my opinion if the executive director has lost the confidence of three of you That should be enough, not for. That's a trade off that I'm suggesting. Can you have me understand the difference between cause and no cause because you wouldn't want to get rid of somebody unless you had a reason to, which would be a cause. What's the legal? You want me to go, I can give you a perfect example. Okay. So, have another housing authority a few years ago, not too far from here. The executive director seemed to have lost the confidence of the board. The reasons why that executive director lost the confidence of the board were not clearly in a forecaw's category. But they were adamant that they went to go into another direction. So they made the decision to get rid of the executive director and pay the severance. And what they got in return from that was there could be no litigation concerning it. So on occasion, which I don't think will happen here, there may be some factors that don't fit neatly in a forecaw's situation. The U.S. abort may determine we just need to go in another direction. So that has happened. Now, the other thing that's betrayed off and for the board, in my opinion, is an extended termination clause. There are more things and there are more fleshed out in the tightest fill contract and what we use now that fit a for cause Termination then what's in Teresa's current contract? The process that you have to go through in order to Touch all the bases if you're going to do a termination for cause is more fleshed out. There's a review procedure that complies with current floor-to-law. So the restructuring of the termination clause from what's in Teresa's current contract is what I'm recommending and it's a trade-off It's more exacting than what she currently has To me that's a benefit for the board The reason why I picked the title of the contract is, as I talk about these clauses, what you see, it's pretty fresh. What you see, the language is what I'm recommending. It's what I'm recommending you consider. You're not going to make a decision tonight. Once you get further information, I would put together the new version of the contract for you all to consider whenever that you get to that point. I want to answer the questions, explain why I'm suggesting some changes from her current contract. So this goes, in my opinion, on your side, not on her side. There is no yours in hours. I mean, you're the attorney for our agency and our agency is to look at the continuance and the benefit of the agency itself in order to serve the people, not the executive director. And she works for the agency as well. So there is no size as I see it. I guess what I'm mixed up about is 18 months. I think that's a long time. I'm not recommending 18 months. I know, but even with City Commission, they only give you six. Well, let me explain that. And the reason they do is because when because you get a whole new board of commissioners every two years people change. I mean you have a four year term and then you're switching out and now we're switching out three. So new people could come in and say, and exactly happen. I don't like Pam Brancascio get rid of her. That's exactly what happened. And that woman, she was her husband was dying. She had fallen and completely shattered her knee. And the new ones came on and said, we don't care, we don't want you. And made a case to get rid of her for which case she had to go for higher in attorney and whatnot. And the whole reason that is is because you just can't walk into another city and get a city commission manager job. That's the risk involved. I don't see that we have that type of risk involved with this. We're in here for three years. One of us comes out. One of us comes in. The contract that we have with Teresa stands for a while. I don't think we have that light. I don't think the executive director has the same liability as a city manager in accepting this position. It's more of a job job, not like you're not subject to it. We're not even elected for God's sake. Well, we're appointed. You're right. And actually, Commissioner, I think you're appointed. You're right. And actually, Commissioner, I think you just made my argument. Let me tell you why. City, maximum six months. You know why? There's a statute for 15.25 if I'm not mistaken, the limits, severance, and bonuses for municipalities, counties, that kind of thing. Why? It's because it's considered to be prudent with state monies. Well, you were pointing it, this is not part of the city, you get no state monies. However, Well, you were pointing at this is not part of the city, you get no state money. However, when that statute was written, it would have covered the housing authority also. So in 2019, I worked with Farrow, our trade organization, and our lobbyists, and explain that this should not cover housing authorities because we receive no state funds. So we have now been, after that point, specifically exempted from that. So different from the city, we're not limited in terms of the severance. The reason why I said I think you made my argument for me is, so what I open with, and that is longevity, should have some privilege. And the longer someone works for you, and if they're doing stellar work. And remember, this only kicks in if you decide to get rid of them without cause. Only in that event you held it. So if I put in a lot of time and I've done well, if you want to get rid of me, then you should pay me because I'm going to give up my right to sue. So one of the things that I'm glad you put on the record is I've known Theresa for a long time. I would say we're friends, but I don't represent Theresa. I represent the authority. Whatever advice I'm giving you, I'm giving you the best advice I can give you. But in the end, Theresa works for you. If you decide that a year is too long, that's up to you. One of the things I'm doing is telling you trends. And when you have someone who's been successful for you, which is the second part of our conversation this evening, you may be in danger of losing them, not to a Neva. When you use the word trends, could you flush that out a little bit? I mean, because that can be anything from anecdotally you know of two or three situations, two, you've read national studies. Because you seem to appeal to that a lot. I'm curious if you could tell me more about that. I think that's a great question. When I'm talking about trends, I'm talking about trends in Florida amongst executive directors in Florida because we represent a lot of housing authorities in Florida. I understand that, but if we're going to terminate an executive director without cause, I'm not so certain the level of graciousness that should be accorded to the individual. Okay. I'm just wondering if commissions look at it that way. That's come up, but again, the instance is when there's been a termination without cause and my experience has been once. It's not what normally happens. If you're going to terminate, then normally it's going to be pursuant to some serious issue. And that serious issue is normally going to be fleshed out in what you can terminate for a cause for. So if you want to go for a termination, then you better be advised that the things you want to terminate for, you have to prove for it. In the unlikely event that you want to terminate under the reasons why I said before, you don't have something that you can fully prove under the type of proof you need, but you just decide you got to go in a different direction for whatever reason. You don't want to run the risk of getting sued. So you can look at this as a payment in lieu of being sued. It's in lieu of being sued instead of being sued. Instead of being sued. Yeah. So for the extra six months, we don't get sued. If to reason. No, no. I don't understand the second part of it. I guess if you say it, is it the three versus the four vote, the super majority versus the majority we're giving up? Is it not having four or something? No, no, no. I think you're connecting them in a way that I shouldn't try to connect them. The supermajority is something that's already in her contract. It takes four of you to terminate. And you're saying I said I never put that in a contract. I think if you're going to terminate a simple majority should be enough. Three. Three. Three. Three. Three. Three. Simple majority's three. I don't know. I like it the other way. I mean, everybody has to, I mean, just because three people don't like your executive director and they get to get rid of that person. That you better all, not, you better all be moving in the same direction as to why you don't want, and not anything personal but if you your words you want to move in a different direction you better have all four of you out of the five moving in that direction or you're not going to get in any direction why not have five be this why not have five well I mean you could you could I mean but there's always going to be one. OK. Correct. There's always going to be one. Under that theory. Always that one on commission. Under that theory, let me be clear. I'm telling you what I normally wouldn't put in a contract and why I wouldn't do it. This is up to you. If it's already in her contract. If you want to keep a super majority, it's fine. I'm not tying that to the one year. I'm tying the one year to longevity and what you're paying to not be sued. If you want to keep six months and she's willing to accept that, that's up to you. If we put the year it says and you cannot sue us. If you read it it kind of says that. It doesn't say it exactly like that but I'm here to tell you that's what it means. Anybody can sue anybody and then you still have to fight it. Contract. Why wouldn't you make it more explicit? There are reasons why. I could make it more explicit if you'd like to, but I'm not going to. I would prefer not to be more explicit for a variety of reasons. Which I don't want to necessarily. They're not specific. I think you get tied up. If you want to terminate someone without cause. You have a particular philosophical or political issue with that individual. You have to be very careful if there's so many ABCDE's with that. I think the broader the language, the more effective it is, you're going to terminate someone without cause. And some of those terminations without cause are predicated on political or philosophical differences with the executive director. So I think it's better not to put down chapter in verse in that this day, such and such or here, color, such and such. I like contract language, as vague but as appropriate as possible. And in Theresa's current contract, paragraph F, which talks about permanent disability, is that included in the title of contract? Yes, but it's not set out in the same way it is here. Because if I read what it is here, the executive director here would be entitled to severance if they were not able to serve the disability. That's correct. I don't see that in the Titus Park Contra. Right. We did something different concerning disability in this contract. Severance has more to do now with if you want to terminate without calls. Why? Because in most contracts like you see in Titusville, they're providing short and long-term disability. So long-term disability addresses the disability issue. Except for that long-term disability is typically just a percentage of pay. Let's say it's 60 percent pay. It's true. 60 percent of pay, but to raise this current contract, would be the full sentence for six months, should there be a disability? And if you want to keep that, I'm good with that. I'm just asking you there. No, no. The reason why I said it that way is, I'm telling you what trends and I'm telling you what I recommend. But just like the commissioner said, if she likes a supermajority and that's what you want, keep it. Am I advising you to keep it? No. But it's up to you. So just to be clear, you would recommend that we take out the disability portion of the race's current contract. And put in, if you don't already have it. And then for a long-term disability plan. Correct. And if you look at the beginning of the benefit, at the end of the benefits section in Titusville, you should see short and long term disability. Yeah, I don't think, what is our position on disability? We don't have any, unless the tenant or the employee pays through AppLac. You have AppLac? It's employee paid, so housing authority does not pay long or short term disability And it and a benefit for a lot of VDs now because they're your one employee is that Short and long term disability to be painful. Well, you can't even get disability if you're a certain age Was it 65 maybe I think there's 60? Okay, I don't know that one. Not in the corporate world you can't get a plan. You're too old. Nothing for you. Okay, well, I'm sorry to hear that, but again, if you, if you, if you, any parts of Teresa's contract you want to keep, We will work it in. Okay, any more for that one? And let me be clear, I'm not recommending 18 months. I was recommending one year. What's next? Let's continue. Okay, number 11 on page 9. You got me having to look at which contract I'm talking about now. No, that's the reason it's contract. Let's go to page 11 in the Titusville contract. Number nine. So, because Brian was moving back to Titusville from where he was, the first part of this is in here. And Teresa's contract, contract wouldn't be in it because she's already here. This is not a provision I'm married to, but I started putting it in because of a certain situation. At a housing authority not too far from here, the executive director didn't live in the city. Executive director didn't live in the county. They lived in a neighboring county. You good? Hearing? I'm just going to be a little way. Got it? That executive director changed jobs. Went to another job in another city that he didn't live in. Didn't live in the county. So it's eventually the board decided if we give you a new contract we want you to at least live in the county because it's hard to defend you kind of knowing what's going on and being part of the community a lot of that if you don't even live in the county. So in that instance and that contract, that executive director agreed to establish a residency in the county, and that would be effective all during the term of his contract. So I started leaving that in and leaving it up to each different authority as it comes up as the weather that's important to them. Theresa lives in this county. I don't think it's an issue for her. If it's not an issue for you, I want to highlight it to say, this isn't something I'm pressing. Maybe an issue in the future however. Could be. So what? You're going to have to change the contract. That's it. In the future. It depends on whether it's important to you. To live in the county of the city. The county is what was picked because city limits can be very limiting. If I happen to live two miles outside of the city limits, should that disqualify me from being an executive director? Does her say that she has to live in this murder? No. No. You're just telling us this so we don't want to put it in here. If you want to keep a version of it, I'm telling you why it's in the Titusville contract, but I'm telling you, if it's not in a contract with Teresa, it's not something I think is a make or break. It's not a big issue. It's whether it's an issue to you all, because at this other venue, it was an issue for them. Well, we know where Theresa lives and she lives within the county, I don't have any problem with that. And I fully understand why housing authorities may make it county rather than community. The other sub-communities may not have a housing available at an appropriate cost to the incoming director. The question is, if she came to us, which I'm just going to do, whether she did it and said, I wanna move, I'm moving to Titusville. Would that bother us? Yes, it would bother me. Then we might not bother us. Right, see, she says you have a little wish, you can't make it. Right, I don't think- People do, she can't say. I'm coast. Sure. Moving to Miami. Well, you really can't under this contract. Right. You can't. No. That's cause if you choose to leave and go to Palm Coast. You've reached your contract. Well, I think in part it can be a template for other executive directors. Yeah. We might want to put a book this county in there. I think it would bother us if she moved out the county. OK, that's why I want to highlight it. And the end is up to you. Probably a relative is we don't think she's going to move while she's got this job. Life happens? Good happen. But some other boys just said, we're not worried about it. But that's not a trend. I just said some other books. All right, on this same page number 11, which is in threes' contract, and I want to draw your attention to the last line. This is government in the sunshine and public records. It says executive director agrees to use, no, that's not it. No, that's not the one. Forgive me, it was just on this page residency. It is the next page which is 12 in the Titusville contract. Obviously, number 12 does not apply. Relocation allows because she's already here. It's number 13 on page 12. I don't want to draw your attention to the last sentence. Executive director shall not be entitled to receive any compensation directly from these corporate entities for serving in the aforementioned capacities unless the appropriate boarded directors of such corporate entity and the board of the Housing Authority by specific resolution determined otherwise That's the second part of my discussion with you to see But what's in here is also in Teresa's contract. Okay? I'm sorry. I said what's in the Titusville contract is also specifically in her current contract. Right. Now, if we go to page 15 in the Titusville contract, automobile availability. So this spells out what happens if the executive director is given an automobile to use from the authority? And one of the things that's come up in the past is at five o'clock, do I have to park the car and get into my personal vehicle? Do I have to park the car on Friday at 5 and not come back and use it until Monday morning? Because the executive director is on call 24 hours a day, there needs to be an allowance for some incidental use. So if I'm going home, taking a car overnight, coming back the next day, if I stop at the grocery store, that's an incidental use. On the weekends, I have the go to the grocery store, that's an incidental use. If I'm going to Myrtle Beach for two weeks for vacation, that's not an incidental use. Is this relevant if we're not getting a car? No, but I like to put it in there because if that changes, we want to make sure it's clear. Oh, just in case. I think if it's irrelevant, it shouldn't be in there. If we get a new executive director and there's the car availability, then we write it for that person on what's going on at the time. That's fine. Because you're always talking about trends. But I'm gonna tell you why it is relevant, I think. It's still relevant because of what we put back in the car allowance part. It says either you can use your car or the authority will provide a car for you if there's a change over doing this contract This clause marries to that But commissioners if you don't want it that's fine market say you don't want it, that's fine. Mark it. Say we don't want it. Well, I appreciate all of the evaluation that you've done, but I think we should stick to what's important to Teresa. And what I hear is important to her is the cola and the car allowance. And I think if we want to discuss this paying for a whole year if we let her go without cause, that's something that we all need to talk about. Yes, I agree. I agree. I think to me that's a sticking one. That's a sticking one. Coming from private enterprise, who's your job? Because Florida's in that wheel state, and how do we figure out what you're going to do now Which is many people are in that position and and and I don't want to get into a situation. I heard you say You could possibly lose her I don't want to get into a situation with our executive director Where we have that wedge right out of this whole contract discussion because that's not how I prefer to operate and if we start that it's only going to go in a bad direction. I agree with you 100%. It can easily develop then into a personality issue and we're looking at without cost. Oh yes, I agree. Okay, I'm good. I'm not sure if y' talk about the same thing, but let me say this to end on that part of it. The one year in my mind is the benefit to her because that's money that if you all decide in the unlikely event and I'll tell you now, if you look to me for advice, you probably, I'm not going to give you advice to terminate without cause. But I got to provide some protection if in fact you decide to do that and that's the language that they can't sue. In the example I gave you the one example, I advised them not to terminate without cause but they decided to do that and they paid. Well I could certainly see that but what Tim asked the question is can you be more specific if we say and you answer and you are going into a that, but what Tim asked the question is can you be more specific if we say and you answer? You were answering you were going in a different direction, but what I heard you say was can you be specific in that language if we say okay 12 months you get without cause and you cannot sue us I can say that if that's what you want I mean if that's the whole intent let's be very clear about it. There's a reason why I'm not clear about it, but I will do whatever you want request. No, if you're going to, I didn't get why I do it. What's the reason why? Yeah. I'm not going to put it on the record. All right. Because the person who can use it is sitting over there. Number one, not that she would. But number two, it doesn't matter in the end what I'm going to say today. It doesn't matter. You need to talk to her. Yeah, it does. If you want to make sure she's looked out for them, I'm giving you my advice about a trade off. Some things for her, some things for the board. If you decide that's not what you want, and that's what Theresa indicates, you should do that. The supermajority thing, if you want to keep that, it's fine. I've given you my rationale about it, but it's what's important to the person that is going to affect. I'll be back in Tampa sometime tonight. But you'll be here, you'll still be your executive director. Everybody needs to be happy. Except for me. I wouldn't want to drive your Tampa. Is that good to culminate? Where is the security minister still looking for that? I couldn't find it all. What are you looking for? The security is already referenced in this contract. I I could find it overlooking. I'm sure I need to. Okay, forgive me. I spent so much time looking at the tightest bill contract that I did make no. It's on page 7c on ours, on our context, page 7c. I'm going to jump right over it. 7c. The executive, I'm going to make a warning. Thank you say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I don't. I just appreciate everybody working together. I want Theresa to be happy. She's brought up a couple of things. I'm good with those things. This other stuff about car. We don't have a car. When we get a car, we'll make a car. A dendell. I don't know. A black car. It might never ever be a car. We might be all section eight with all of our new buildings and she doesn't need to drive all over the, I don't know. Who else? The reason why, the reason why is part of what you all have already said, part of what I'm doing is covering potential eventualities. Because we don't know exactly what's going to happen eventually you may provide a car that's all this is about if you don't done that well I mean that's reasonable with the car the car would be paid you would pay for the operating repairs maintenance and insurance of the darn car I mean that's pretty obvious If you take it out No, I think you need to be put Believe it or not Yes, please And believe it or not that's that's specificity that's specificity about What you're going to pay for and the incidental use has come up And this dispel is that because it's in there. It makes, I mean that's what you're supposed to pay for when you come. And the car that's the benefit of the whole thing. Right. True. Okay. Okay. So we don't have a car today. What's that? We don't have a car today for you. No. No. We don't have a bicycle. Is there anything else in this contract that we need to review? I could talk about the whole thing for the rest of the night, but no. I think I've covered what I wanted you all to pay attention to. Let me end with this. Did you write them all with? Did you write all these contracts? I wrote either all of the majority of them. There's some parts of Theresa's contract I didn't write, but that's okay because the executive director negotiates what they can with their board. Right. So that's why I said, you know, the supermajority is not something I would normally recommend, but it's okay. She already negotiated that with you. So if you wanna keep it, keep it. We know the title so executive director needs very adept. I thought you all might remember him from before. Yes, we do. Well, some of us do. We also do. Nope, that's all for that, but guess what? I'm not going away because I'm gonna talk to you about the resolution that you have in This meeting and then in the next Get back with you about what we might like to have in a change Correct, yeah, correct. Okay, so those included the whole issue of severance pay. Yes. How to rent a street and a high-mobile, a lot of what's reapered. Yes. And we'll be clear, severance pay only if there's a termination without cost. Right. Whether we want to say something about residency requirement, right? Before we leave termination though, you needed side whether you want me to use very specific language. If you want me to do it, I will. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Good there. You know what we need to get back on. We're going to have to go to the little session. And really once you, you should talk to your executive director because in the end I can recommend but like you point out I'm not going to have to live with this contract she is and believe it or not I wanted to be happy too but I just wanted to do my job. That's all be'll be happy. Yeah, we need to talk to him. Okay. We will. Alright. When I first came up here and I said my grandfather was about to speak, I was actually joking. I don't think so. But I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. That's time consuming with this second part of it. Is it's equally important? This is resolution 24-11? That's correct. So what does this emanate from? So commissioners, you all have been very fortunate over the past few years. You have an executive director who has been able to do some very good development for you, transition from a traditional housing authority. And just like you said, Commissioner, moving more to the section eight model than public housing. That is totally desirable. But trending are executive directors who say, I'm bringing in all these monies and resources, but I'm limited as to how I can benefit from that. So what you are considering this evening is a potential way for Theresa to get and staff, as a matter of fact, to and staff to get some fairly minor benefit from dollars that come in. Let me be clear on the record what I'm going to say now that don't come from HUD. They're not federal fines. There are restrictions on what you can do with federal fines. Your development fees, property management fees, as you move forward, are known as unrestricted non-federal fines. So, let me give you an example of how unrestricted non-federal funds can be used. Not exactly what I'm going to talk to you about here, but I want to give you another example to think through how this would work. The Tampa Housing Authority is the largest or second largest housing authority in Florida. They have done a huge amounts of development and are continuing. Their executive director makes a salary and the COO-F-O, a salary that is made up partially of funds that come from HUD, federal funds. The rest of their salary comes from sources of non-federal funds. In this case, what we're talking about is not salary. Because the clause I read you says that working in the night for profits, in the role that Theresa Zinn, she cannot be compensated directly. But she can receive a bonus. And so can the other employees. That is trending. The more there's a move away from public housing and a move to development and repositioning and these other types of devices that take us out of the public housing mill. More and more executive directors are asking is there a way I can benefit from that to some degree. Why is that? Are they not getting raises? There's limits on what raises can be given out of federal funds. That's why I highlighted the difference between federal funds and non-federal funds. Different from Tampa who's been doing this for a while, this is your first foray into this. Right. And this is how it's being addressed to a great degree. In the end, you still determine what that is, because you sit as the board of all of the not-for-profits. So nothing's going to happen that you don't know about. Nothing's going to happen that you don't approve. So is that mean then? Because, okay, it's two questions. So while we're doing this development piece, which is not going to be forever, we have a couple of things coming up now which is going to be, you know, take us busy for a few years, however many. With those projects, then the executive director and senior staff could benefit by receiving some percentage of what the developers, what the corporation gets as a development fee. Once that's done. Property management. And property management. It's ongoing. Property management. But the CAM manages the property, right? We're not managing. You may well do so in the future. So here's something to understand about how development usually works these days when you're doing redevelopment, especially if you're building new units. There has to be a mix a lot of times of different types of units to make the deal financially work. You may have some market rate units. But the parts that I'm going to talk about now are the tax credit units for redevelopment of public housing, generally, tax credits, you've already dealt with this 9% or 4%, that's the best way to try to finance these deals. If you get 9% your golden, you get 4%, there's still a larger gap you got to fill with other minis in order to make it work. But with tax credits, they mandate that a management entity that they have, they've approved that understands tax credits has to manage until it meets stability. At stability, many times the housing authority negotiates that they will take over management, take over the management fee. During the time that the other manager is managing, a lot of times you negotiate, where they will teach us how to do tax credit management. So we're ready when we get to stabilization. So there could be a continuous, a more continuous stream of non-federal funds that are coming into the authority. That's number one. You see the development that has happened and is currently happening. As things change in this marketplace, your ability to do other types of development, and that could be acquisition as opposed to building may present. That's the source of non-federal funds. So the stream of potential non-federal funds at most housing authorities that work with and yours included, I don't see the end of that yet because the potential to do more is gonna continue to be there. So use our current one as an example. Green lawn. So now we have a management company managing it. We don't have to do anything. All that they did. I'll take care. They did the Section 8 vouchers. They're in. We're done. They don't call us because their toilets don't work. So what are you saying that one day, someday, that company that's now managing them is gonna turn it back to? Good the city and say here you do it. No, not to the city to the corporation Yeah, it could happen and it depends on what you what it depends on what you want to do Keep in mind your job partially is not only to look out for a reason, it's to ensure the viability of the housing authority. And as public housing goes away, if you don't pay attention, the housing authority cannot be as viable from a financial standpoint. In Tampa, how do they negotiate that? Different things sometimes. Sometimes. I'm sorry. First of all, it's being a co-developer. OK. Other is negotiating to take over the management. All right. And because they're larger and have more experience, they're in a position sometimes to be their own development. To say yes, to say it or be their own development. Look at it this way also. So, Risa is your main, is your only employee. But she has employees also. How are we going to ensure continued viability to employ the people that we have or expand who we can employ for the viability of the housing authority as an entity? Well, they're going to get it. Then we're negotiating for a piece of that pie. That's exactly what you do. Housing authorities that don't do what you all have already started. They only want to stay having public housing as their portfolio will probably not survive. But if we take over that, say 10 years down the road, we take that back. Greenland Manor. We are now the camp. We are getting paid, the corporation, the housing corporation is getting paid. So they're already getting paid. So out of that money that's coming in, we need to run that piece like a business and pay all the employees. Don't we? I mean, because we might have more employees. If you take it over, you'll have to staff up. Yes. But it's a little piece we didn't talk about. When tax credits are involved, the tax credit investor, after about 15 years, has gotten the benefit of the credits. They are looking to exit. You build in the fact that you have a right of first refusal or you can buy the buildings at that point. Several of our clients are at that point now. So they're getting an asset, not only that they will manage, but they will own also. I didn't know that. I wanted to start to be maintenance, some of of the tax credit they want to get out right? Well if you think about it after 15 years and they And any of these deals they have to maintain reserves to kind of keep the property up But I can tell you now there are closer against the 15 years to pension to Make sure the property is fantastic There are close to 15 years to pension to make sure the property is fantastic, may not be there. But a lot of these properties that are coming available to the housing authority now are in an extremely good shape, much better shaped than the public housing that we had before. Because some of the public housing was never built to the standard that it should have been in the first place. So all of this is about the viability of the housing authority long term. So would those green lawn manner people look for someone besides the new smurnoviche housing corporation to manage it as well? What's there in Santa? I don't know know I'm asking. I don't I don't know So we're going to get back no matter what Under normal circumstances we get it back they don't I'm an almost circumstances they don't the question usually is For the housing authority are you ready to assume management responsibilities? And that's usually staffing. Sure. But that goes back to the potential continued viability of the housing authority. But this is Tampa negotiating ahead of that. So they're getting a piece of that management pie. It is. A head up time. It is. And they are proficient in this, experienced in this, and have a large number of these properties. It's true. Keep in mind also. Keep in mind. Oh, yeah. Keep in mind. Oh, yes. Your first deal or two, your negotiating strength may not be what it is if you've done several deals. Rightans and you have a history of taking over management. You have a history. One of the things that a couple of the House of the House have done is they've staffed up and then they have gone through Florida House and the finance corporation to get their management qualified to do the management from day one, from tax credits. So that means that not only can they manage from the beginning their own deals, they can advertise that they can manage some other people's deals. If that's how far you want to go, but right now we're just talking about what you need to think about for the continued viability of the Newsomurna housing authority. We need to talk to you about future management is sitting right over there. Is that her plan? Does she think she can staff up to do that? That's when these answers that question for you. Well, will she be here and or interested? So, will she tell me if you adopt everything I say, she's not going anywhere. She didn't say that. She didn't tell me that. Well, she just told me. No. That's why it goes back to what you said in the beginning. It doesn't matter what I said along with about the employment contract. That's who it goes back to what you said in the beginning. It doesn't matter what I said along on about the employment contract. That's who needs to be happy. And you all secondarily. Well, I don't think you're going to see any disagreement about that up here. Well, that's one thing. At this moment. The Lord's change. Well, Tim's leaving, so you know. That's another story. On about a wait, Commissioner, you said earlier you got three years, you get four years. Really? I can do it there. A housing authority commissioner gets, you get four years. Send the statue. I didn't know that. I think we got a couple of them a little over that. Ten and now. You think it's 12. Okay, let me ask you this then. So you made reference earlier to on page 10 of her contract and on page 12 of Tariya's full contract where it talks about instrumentalities and affiliates and conflict of interest. And it says that the executive director, I'm sorry, keeps saying she. The executive director shall not engage in any business or transaction or have financial interest. Director indirect, which is incompatible with the proper discharge of the duties. I'm participating in negotiation or making of any contract with any business entity in which she would have a financial interest. Except for this, because you think about it, she already serves in this capacity with your not-for-profits. So we don't have a conflict issue here. But your resolution addresses that. One, we're not going to pay your salary still in our country, but we reserve the right, essentially, to give you a loan. If you boil it down, that's what it's all about. So, would it be fair to say that as we move more toward an entity agency, associations. So we move more toward one where we're developing these properties and the executive director becomes more involved in helping to develop the properties but later on taking them over in the nine years of the four years, whatever the tax credit issue is that we are working with. Then that's where they're going to see the increase in their pay because the rest of it's going to kind of go away. I mean, this is going to be the big entity now. It depends. And I think part of what you're doing is planning for that. The day you need to worry about that is the day you are no longer receiving any HUD funds. Right, right, right. That day is not here yet. Okay, because we still have HUD units. That's still a majority of our units. So we talked about this before. How much revenue new projects come brought to the board. Some of those revenues are things like management fees for additional such and aid vouchers. That would not be a dividend of this because this is a tough amount. Management fees, potentially from your newer developments if you talk about Your public housing developments now I'm just thinking of additional Revenue set stream set with problems to the authority things like Bash vouchers, okay, a bunch of vouchers and there are management fees associated with that those manage You have come from HUD so this is not included in this conversation, correct? Correct, I think what this is outlining it does state in the second contract for the development corporation where that comes from, which be developer fees, management fees that we would get, say the management, we will get some management fees from Green Nought Manor. Yes, but that will be non-federal funds. We have received developer fees for Green Nought Manor, but that was in 2021. As we close out Green Nought Manor, there may be more developer fees. We only get a portion at a time. And keep in mind, I'm sorry, we finished. Yes. Keep in mind, you all still sit as the board of all of these entities, you make the final determination. So, just like you said earlier this evening, I think it's kind of outline, but getting from Theresa, not me, these are sources that a bonus could come from. So you're clear and these are not sources. I think you should have that. I think we need to clarify what we're doing here tonight with the contract for the development corporation and the resolution for the housing authority ED to be able to do those things. If you look at page four of the development corporation agreement which is under the resolution 2024-11 page 4 of that development agreement states percentage not to exceed of management and development fees property sales real estate fees earned as compensation paid for business activities such as development property management So, it's a lot of things that we can do. So, we can do a lot of things that we can do. So, we can do a lot of things that we can do. So, we can do a lot of things that we can do. So, we can do a lot of things that we can do. So, we can do a lot of things that we can do. So, we can do a lot of things that we can do. So, we can do a lot vouchers or anything like that. It would be the development management stuff. Okay. Really helpful. We knew what, have we received these types of funds? We have received developer funds, but that was in 2021. So we don't wanna go backwards and try to recap that. That would not look good. We did receive $159,000 in developer fees for Green Law and Manor. There is plan to be future developer fees but we don't know what that looks like until stabilization. Okay. Is that the only piece that this authority has received to date that fall into these categories? That's correct. 159,000 from Greenham. Correct. Okay. But as we move forward with West Side Phase 2, Live Out Combs, and other developments. These are other things that are coming up. So, currently, all staff, when they're paid, a portion of their pay, including yours, is paid by HUD. Right? A portion of yourself is paid by HUD. So, no portion has okay, so there's some profit for example in our market properties We've had some profit and some of Our staff's time has been assigned About that profit has been allocated to about 2% sorry about 2% Well my point is that I think when we looked at your performance of the past year part of the impetus to giving you not just a cola but an increase was how you managed the Greenland project. Okay. Even though those funds were not HUD funds, when we said, oh, but you should get this pay, we didn't specify you're getting X% for public housing and Y% for the job with Greenland Matter, but we actually included that job in our thinking, right? Yeah, yeah, I understand that. This is moving forward. This is a contract moving forward in future development and anything that comes up. Am I saying that correct? That's correct. And in the end, I keep reiterating, you all sit as the board of all these entities. It'll be up to you to determine whether you give a bonus and what level it is. It's just capset at no more than 2%. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's in there. 2% is in here. I saw one third of fees. What? This says one third. I'm sorry. I got 2% in's in there. 2% is in here? I saw one third of fees. This says one third. I'm sorry. I got 2% in my head. I'll talk about it a few minutes ago. Yeah, it says one third now. I get one third of fees. So theoretically, have we had this in operation when we got the $159,000 because there's a $50,000 pool we can work with here? If you sow shoes. Yeah, if you sow shoes. Yeah, theoretically. If you sow shoes. But that's only for bonuses, that's not for salary. Because they're still getting their salary out of the hood unless you take them completely out off the hood, pay roll and stick them over here. And that's all we can't do that because there's no employees in this country. So they're going to get paid their regular salary to do that job, and then they're going to get paid from here. A bonus, not salary. Right. I don't know if hard time thinking about this. Because in reality, when the staff is working on these projects, they're actually taking away from HUD because they're talking as a matter of my approach, right? Well, that's what I'm thinking. It should be all separated out then. Almost, yeah. All the developer fees should go into the corporation, all of them all of them. And then that's what you used to pay for people who have worked on that project, not hard money. But I can't guarantee only pay bonuses out of it. Right. But we're just going to a different point. Yeah, I think that might be a level of detail that would have to be worked out down the road. I think tonight, are we talking just about approving the concept to give ourselves permission. That's what you're doing. Yes. So tonight. It's available. It's available for us to do. Yeah, that's a great question, Judy. And I think you're right. I'll understand correctly what we're being asked tonight is if we approve this this we're just simply giving ourselves permission if we want to. Exactly. In the future. Yes. To have the conversation. Yes. That you're talking about. Like are we even open to the possibility ever of ever giving a bonus? That's exactly a good way to put it and that's why I keep coming back to the central theme which is Nothing can happen unless the four of you decide so right now. We do not have permission to give a bonus if we wanted to And go back to her contract Okay In the race right and as part of the salary. Right. But I think as far as the contract and the resolution in front of us, it gives you permission. And it goes with the line that I read, when you're working in the nonprofits and affiliates, you cannot get a salary. But by resolution, the board can determine what they want to do. This is all that is. So I think the vote this down, not that we're voting today, would be to say we don't ever want to consider. Am I correct? That's exactly right. To vote it down would be to say we don't ever want to even have the possibility of considering bonuses. And how you allocate bonuses from the not for profits like what you're talking about, that will be your decision based on this resolution. Right. This is just a permission resolution. You think the more difficult conversation is going to be, you know, once you start doing bonuses, then you're setting precedent. And, you know, is it then sort of expected that every year and who gets them and how much? Like, that's the doubles and the details, right? But that's almost a, that's like a separate question from what we're considering tonight. Tonight, you're just considering. This is just, I like the way you said it. This is permission. Nothing's going to happen until you all vote to do one thing or the other. And keep in mind, even if you give a bonus from the housing authority, it's the same effect. It's whether or not people will expect it or not. It depends on performance in the year and how you evaluate performance. And that's totally up to the executive director. For a staff. For a staff. Yes, that bonus goes to the corporation, to the executive director, and then she can keep whatever she wants of it and share whatever she wants of it based upon their performance. I think it's more complicated than that. You all will vote. What parts of that are a bonus? Yeah, love the ED. You have a contract with your executive director. Yes, we've had that discussion. We can set a precedent and say half half, or we can say 70, 30, or we can say whatever we can say. You can say nothing. Yeah. All goes to you. This is not going to change that. But it's really, she knows what the performance of her staff is. It's not up to me to sit here and say, how much this one, this one, this one, this one. It's not her. It's not her puppy. No, it's weren't, we're not running the staff. Yeah. You have one employee. Not this doesn't change that. Okay, so let me ask you this about this total of one-third. So that would be an awful lot of money for bonuses. If we didn't pay, say if we pay the whole one-third, then where does that money not get to be used? To buy more property for housing people to what? It's whatever the corporation would decide to do with it. But keep in mind, you're the corporation. The one third is a cap. It's not what would necessarily have to be paid out. You just want to make sure that there's a cap as to what this could be. So what's the procedure say, like Theresa says, we're going to get some money coming out of the green one now, right? So then do we have to vote and say how much of that we want to give? Like 10% by so many. And the corporate setting, yes, and what you normally would do is I would think you would take some advice from the executive director who knows what the money is supposed to be used for, what money you need for allocation, what money's may be developed, excuse me, may be left for a potential bonus. You can accept that or not. Okay. And then when does it get paid? That was my other question. I can't answer that. I don't know when it gets paid. It's just typically I'm not only accounting yet. I'm just on the legal. I know, but I mean, does it get paid at annual review? Does it get paid at one time? You usually on a review I would say usually on a review I don't like that we talked about that but you can fix it however you like yeah because if someone gets reviewed in February and then they get the money in April they have to wait all the way to the next February to get their bonus that's silly so I think it needs to be paid like quarterly or something like that you know that would be up to you all in a form. It's an incentive. It's supposed to be an incentive. I think we're looking as Tim said we're looking for permission to do it and the rest is perhaps for another job. I know but I have to understand how it's going to work. I understood what was the permission but I just need to know. Well, I was preventing us now. We have these other instrumentalities. The development corporation. I think he might. I think he might. I think he might. I think he might. I think he might. I think he might. I think he might. I think he might. I think he might. I think he might. I think he might. I think he might. They say, hey, let's get trees upon us out of that money. We can do that today. And she can share with her stuff. So you can share with your stuff, if you want. Or we decided to give this money to trees out of them. I don't see what prevents us today from doing it. The reason why I'm bringing this is it's tied to the clause that I talked about before. She can't make any money on this. The resolution, there's no compensation for working in the not for profits. The not for profits has no employees. If they did, that have to be considerations for benefits, so forth and so on. This is just permission for you all to decide sitting as that board whether some of that money can be used for Abonus is simply permission you can use it or not It's a resolution Resolution for permission. It is not a resolution for a timetable for us to do this. When we decide to do that, it's a separate decision by the corporation as I understand it. We simply are giving ourselves permission to do this. We may do it, but we may not this year. And it's going to be the same for people I'm looking at. Right. I have no idea. I don't want to overcomplicate. I don't know on, on this, it's 24, 2024, 2, which gives the executive director the authority to conduct the business because she doesn't have that now. Right. So this is what the, that, this what this resolution is. This is 20-24-11. That's what I'm saying. It's not on the agenda. So are we doing this tonight? That's not the development core. It's only the development core. It's in the development core. But we don't have it in the development. I'm on the housing development core, but I'm looking at it. We don't have a 11. We only have 12. Correct. You're looking at the same thing I'm looking at. Okay. So there's two resolutions for them for the housing authority, which is 2024-11. But that's not on my front page. No, that's the development corporation. The housing authority is the big thick one. And then there's one under the development which is 2024-2. The authority now has permit. Okay. And we move second. And I brought it up because I'm hoping that if I finish, I won't be here for the development corporation meeting. Nothing personal, I'm prayerful also. There's no personal. I understand why you prefer us. Right, you're going to be. Nothing personal, I'm careful also. There's no personal. I understand why you prefer us. Right, you do. I do. Having dealt with this. Previous slide. I'm doing it. Previous slide. Yeah. I think I've stapled it to the, you've stapled it to the long thing. But I appreciate your careful explanation and by using existing ED's contract with another contract then we can see what we may or may not want to adjust in the existing and I really appreciate that. I was not the last meeting so it clarifies for me. And I appreciate that commissioner but I will hopefully end with how I started. In the end, all that explanation I gave you and the clarification, Jala gonna do is between you and Theresa. Exactly. I just want to do what she wants to do. Okay, you should want to do what she wants to do, but you also need to make sure you consider what's in the best interest of the authority. Exactly. So that's why I went to Ronda. consider what's in the best interest of the authority. Exactly. So that's why I went around. I'm doing it for the authority, not for the director. So I have one more thing. So I have one more thing. I have one more thing. It's just a suggestion as I exit, I think. I've suggested this to other housing authorities. When you have a second meeting like this, although I helped you get to 630 today, don't put a time that starts immediately after the board meeting. That way, if you finish in 10 minutes, you can go right into it technically. You got to wait till 630 the way you noticed this, if and fact. So one thing we might want to check immediately following okay guy do we notice I don't know man leave you with that thank you again a safe trip home it's a long trip thank you ma'am and very long trip. I appreciate why you're putting me out Thank you very much. Thank you If you want to just follow the resolutions now, we're there in our head as opposed to Let's go to Look at Yeah, let's go to look at Well, we didn't talk about the budget two percent. Yeah, the budget. Okay But we can well Do we have a resolution pack? Don't we have some to approve the budget? Yes. 20, 24 dash 10 is looking at the revised budget, right? Yes. And the resolution that the budget is in the package. Yes. This is what I was looking at before. So when you said 2%, when you look across, I guess I'm not going to say anything. I mean, we do see costs and revenues assigned to public housing section 8 management funds development, et cetera. So it seems to me that when we pass salary or pay any other expense, it is getting absorbed by HUD and my because the portion is being allocated outside of that now. Right? But it wears salaries. I don't know. FSS salaries are all section 8 from that. Okay. FSS salaries are all section 8 from that. Let's see. Last salaries. Where's your salary Theresa? It's mixed in with the non-technical salaries. What number is that? 41, 10, 5. on technical salaries. First line on there. Correct. Okay, so a portion of salaries is being paid by the development corps now, right? Correct. Yes. It takes me a bit. Well, it's 2% because what we do is we take per program. So we have 461 vouchers, 51 public housing, 10 open market, 12 development. So the percentages are by the amount of units. So we're doing an allocation. Right. And the reason I brought that up was because there's no compensation for most, and there actually is. We are portioning some staff salaries to develop that point. So I think we always thought of everyone's compensation years and everybody else's as being supportive of all programs, except for maybe the people who were dedicated to one which was that that says. But if they were in general, they could be counting and whatever. We were pushing some to develop a car because they were doing some work for them. Right? Okay. I understand. Anyway. That's your role. I guess. The reason you're putting together a new budget is? Well remember we had that problem where we were cut $300,000 in public housing. So we need to do a revised budget. What we found when we did the revised budget that Section 8 will be taken over most of that $300,000 to replace what we lost in public housing. Section 8 is now picking up that. So it's just a revision? Correct. So it was mainly just a reallocation. Correct. Section 8 from public housing? Yes. And put the salaries in the right place. So public housing directors will be in public housing. Section 8 workers are in Section 8. So the allocation per program. Okay, so that's resolution 2024-10. And you have to submit this to HUD. If they ask for it, yes, we submit this to our fee accountant and the part of our budget. Okay. Can I get a motion to approve the revised budget, 2020-2024 dashed-town? So moved. Second. Second. More favor? Aye. Okay. 2020-11. It's been a lot of time talking about. Yes. I don't know exactly how to do this. Do I get a motion to approve it? So moved. And a second. Second. I don't know exactly how to do this. Do I get a motion to approve it? So move. At a second. Second. Any further discussion? Call the question. Can I get a motion to approve? So move. I did move it. I'm sorry. I'm over. I'm over. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Well. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. That's only 2024-11. It does not include this agreement that's behind it or it does. No, the agreement's going to be a part of the development corporation, the contract. So do we're going to look at that? We'll look at that. Yes. We'll look at that with the next meeting, right after this. OK. Is that the only? We have the approval of the Section 8 utility allowances. We had our move to work consultant take our utility allowances last year and increase them by a utility factor increase. And this will be for January 1st, 2025. This is 2024-12. Okay. How can I get a motion to approve the new utility last? So moved. Second. All right. So moved. Second. All better? Right. Motion passes. Okay. Does anyone have any questions that we need to revisit on this? And, uh, CD, an and all business the CDs and bonds. I was thinking for you. I want to get an update on that. Yes, I am still researching that so I will need some help with that. Commissioner Reiker, please. I'm requesting some assistance please. Of course. Okay. We know about this. Are there any items that you'd like to go over in detail condition? I was on the housing authority or covered everything. I have two comments. Are we on board comments now? Two comments. The first comment is I had no idea about Greenland manner being given back to us after nine years after the tax 15 15 year I did not know that was how that works. Mm-hmm. Was that necessarily how it works that it would come back to us? We do have a brighter first reprise. We do have the right of purpose. We do have the right of purpose. And send it for anyone else to take it over. Right. I mean, I didn't know that. I just thought that was very interesting, because that puts us, seems like it puts us back into the housing, public housing business, except we're doing something. Not public housing, but we're managing a property. You would be managing property, yes. Yeah. You can hire a management company, though. You don't have to manage it. OK. Yeah, I guess so. I don't have to mention it. Okay, yeah, I guess so. Yeah. I don't know that they necessarily revert though because like for example, Newport sound. Newport sound. It was at the past it's 15 here. And more they try to sell it. Yeah, they can sell it after 15 years. We have the first right to purchase it. But they have not. So, but still there, the original. Like who wants it? It could be that after 15 years, our owners want a back out. They put their money up front after 15 years. They got their money back. They want to step out and wash their hands of it. We have the right to, first refusal to purchase the property and manage it. Well, that was interesting. So that was interesting to me. I did realize that. Okay. The other thing I wanted to talk about, Chairman, person. No. I just wanted to say that Theresa and I attended two meetings. One was with the Good Housing Partnership, which is our developer on the 4% tax credit, and you did the first one, right Tim? It was very interesting. Tag was there, which tag is like an amazing organization and resource for us through this whole process. They know everything and everybody didn't know how to work this out. Joe is there from the Boys and Girls Club. He came to see us, remember one time Joe. And he made clear his intention to erect the 8,000 to 8,500 square foot building along with Head Start and the Boys and Girls Club. But then I see on this board update that Theresa gave us that it now they're back to 5,000. So, not quite sure where that is. I missed the last meeting, so we'll recap on that with the next meeting. Okay, yeah, so anyway, I thought that I just wanted to say that. And from that meeting, the next steps included to get a survey of the property because the Good Housing Partnerships said they really don't know what they think they can do until they see a survey. So Teresa gave us all a copy of the survey, which you really have to look at it and just outlined in yellow and you can see where everything is kind of located. So I thought that was interesting now they got the survey they can get going. And then, and Teresa's already applied for the demo dispo with HUD, so the paperwork on that is done. But then we can't do it until the insurance company's done with what they're doing. So I'm just talking out loud because it took me a little bit of time to assimilate all of this, right? Damn it. There was a lot. So then, I don't want to say Theresa pushed her way into a pre-application meeting with the city. However, it was kind of arranged and she made sure that she and I were there because it was arranged by the Joe, the Boys and Girls Club. And so we got on, and then there was a lot of other people that were on there as well The good housing partnership came The city planners was were there city engineer the utilities the fire marshal us You know everybody that would meet for pre-application so that was extremely interesting because Because each entity got to say what was important to them or what we needed to do as an organization to actually develop this property. So some of the takeaways I had and I typed them up and Teresa reviewed them and so she said they were okay to distribute was that it's currently zoned R4. So that's, to build more units, you would need a future land use comprehensive plan amendment, which would allow up to 18 units per acre, which needs P and Z approval, which is two meetings with them, and then city commission meeting, two meetings with them, just like we did for the parking. So he said, you probably want to go in the city robbert. He said you probably want to do that. And then good housing says well there's another little lot that if we could purchase it would be that would complete that corner and we'd have some extra land and we would do that purchase not wait. The good housing partnership would purchase that as part of the whole development plan. Put a little bit more land on that, make that corner all part of the property and it would give us more room. And that would also have to be rezoned because that's not zone properly either. And four stories are permitted, but it might be more feasible to build three like we did with Greenland Manor. So that was mentioned at the meeting. And due to the flooding, we all know that each structure would need to be elevated to allow the flood water to flow under it. So you could still park your car there, but you couldn't have any habit of full living on that foot on that lower level and interestingly what was brought up very treason what the boys and girls club was not permitted use on the property and they would need approval as a special exception which would also need two P and Z meetings and two city commission meetings. So they're not permitted because they're not, they're not residential housing. So are they a club or they not a club, you know, then they got into that whole discussion. And that structure would also need to be elevated because Joe asked that question and they said, oh yes, that would need to be elevated and I kind of think that Cogham Offguard just a minute there. Sewer lines would need to be extended. Rosemary, your favorite topic, which is not gonna be paid for by the City of New Smart of each or the Utilities Commission, but by the developer, which to extend all the sewer and water lines would be part of us as a developer, or consider day developer. I mean, we're public, we're housing for people who can't afford housing, but yet we're a developer, City of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the there's the issue of the trees. Live oak trees. You cannot take down members. If it's over 36 inches diameter you have to have city approval to chair down a live oak tree. So that's two P and Z meetings and two city commission meetings. Are there any scrap days in there? There might be turtles. I don't know. I don't know. I think that's all I've heard. And then there'd be a schedule of neighborhood meetings to meet with the neighbors. And that's something that Teresa's used to doing. And so she would stuff these meetings and hide and whatnot and show everybody what we're up to. So anyway, I just wanted to share that with you because you don't think about that when you think of what we're doing. You think, oh, look at this beautiful project, but there's a lot of steps to take to get there. And so these are the steps that we're all going to be working through with the, with, and you know, okay, just with that resolution, it made me think this is, this is something that's not section 8 in public housing. This is a little bit more and we're going to be doing this and we're going to be doing maybe another one maybe at the same time and you know that's a little bit more than what an executive director is hired to do to manage the section 8 in public housing. So when I that's how come that's how I kind of thought through this, you know, it just, this is, this is a developer job. And you got to learn as you're going. Because you don't, who knows about development if you haven't been in there. Right. So there's a lot. So anyway, I think it'll be a lot of fun to follow through. And I'm looking forward to being a part of it and to me I'm Very interested and excited about it So I just want to share that with you. It's wonderful. Thank you. Are you all that information? Are you saying the development? Do you not feel comfortable that good housing partnership would be the developer to be able to I think they're play cable Well, yeah, take on some of those Oh, of course they will be right, but we as a board have a judiciary Responsibility to follow along with all of it, you know and support The executive director in that. Can you apply for tax credits with their using in this We're looking at the funding right now. They're considering 4% tax credits Because we can't put 2 9% in at the same time but we can do do a four in a nine and the 9% tax credit went in two weeks ago. No July 6th. Hopefully September, October. Okay. And the 4% tax credit involves bonds which is completely different than the 9% tax and their guarantee. They're non-competitive. Yes. It's just we're not going to get as much funding out of it. We'll have to have more other funds to offset. But you know, we got $60,000 per unit that should be coming from the Transform 386, as long as it has a voucher attached to it. And then there's some other grants that we're applying for called BRIC, that we discussed today with Mark Glover, which includes some elevation and infrastructure. So we'll be applying for some of those. It's $50 million in grants they have right now. Well, we're just at the entry. Maybe it won't even work out. You don't know. Well, that works out. Well, property works out. Well, the property is sitting there. Well, we could always sell it and do something else with the money. If it starts to go bump in the night, we could do something else with the property as well. But this is a shot we have to take. I think we have to take the shot. You're working like that. We have to take the shot. So, yeah. Mm-hmm. Because if not us, who is going to be as dedicated to affordable housing. True. Some of these going to go in and buy it and not put affordable housing in that. Exactly, Teresa. Exactly. It's perfect, non-affordable housing, property. Perfect. So we just have to keep going and say our prayers. Thank you guys. Thank you for being here. Thank you for going now. And Tim has an announcement. They already know. Oh, they are. You know, OK, we cornered him. But he's gone. You got bombarded, didn't you? We took a boat. We lost. He got lost. They got rid of you, huh? Let me run the best margin. But you, Theresa, found somebody residents to possibly be on our board and I believe that's on the City Commission's agenda tomorrow night. Tomorrow night, yes. Wila Bennett. She is a project-based voucher holder in Greenland manner. What was that? Wila? Wila. She goes by Sue. She goes by Sue. Oh, she goes by Sue. I know that is. Okay, well, I kind of finish this public housing, but we do have this Jefferson here. Did you want to join us for a second? I just want to ask you a question. Because when I call that meant to the office, I don't know what that means. So see, I have great, my beloved sandwich you all have opened up, Grim on Man. They want to know whether or not they will be able to go down there and use the exercise in them. I told not to until we can find out what. That would be up to the property manager, that is not up to me. Who's property manager? The property manager is there Monday through Friday at 8.30 in the morning. You'll talk to Shayla. Shayla or Hector, but Shayla is there every day. Okay, Shayla. Not trying to be fun in a thing like that. She'll know. She'll wipe her over there. No. Okay. Okay. I'm not trying to be funny. Just ask the question. We all need a little humor. Yes. In this regard. Excuse me. Another thing. Since Crystal since Christal had a problem about, you know, to be running and stuff like that. And when somebody called down here, they'd provide the answer to call. So they, I made the greatest mistake of giving them my telephone number. And they called me and then I tell them, call Christal. And then they say, well, we called. And we can't hear no Crystal. And I know Crystal got a new none. I told her, don't give it to me. No, Crystal has a new personal cell phone. I told her, don't give it to me, period. OK, so we got some people that, you know, some women that don't work. Who they thought was going to have time to come down and get a sense of the phone. Our phones are being answered now. We have a new staff that started about three weeks ago. Well, they answered no phone, but that called down and I cried. I mean, third, they were all there. What number did you call? 2556. Okay, that's Crystal's work phone number. And if she's not working or she's off, she turns it off. So you need to call the office number, the 428. Wait, hold. Okay. Okay, wait a minute. 428. 8171. Oh, that28-8171. Oh, that was the old number one. That's still our office number. Okay. Extension one and you'll talk to Michelle. Okay. I'm going to talk to who? Michelle. Michelle. She's our Section 8 worker, but if you can't get a hold of Crystal, because Crystal, I have asked Crystal to shut her phone off when she's out sick or when the weekends. Because she don't need to be answering phone calls during weekend. We have an emergency phone for that. And I, you know, this robin stay here, and I stay here, and this little alley in there. Late at night, if he's somebody to walk him through there. It is at any time I started to part the police, but they were the saw my body getting up. So, I was just wondering, is it possible that you could talk to a routine or somebody and just have a really fun ride through there? Because you know, over there on 44, they get in credit. But I'm not going to say they get in credit or whatever. But I know that they're in some way. And Ms. Robin is single and I am single. OK. Well, these are concerns that affect the housing authority executive director and staff. The board cannot address these situations. Okay. So you are I love y'all. I let me give you you do you have myself a number. Call me. Okay. Being another thing I'm kind of like, that's not the call of the day. Call me. OK. Being another thing I'm going after this, y'all, catch my drift when I'm going. I got a funny phone call over day from Jacksonville. The lady said she was put, and she called a man who went on fun and made it. And she was asked to make this isn't Von Jefferson. Well, I have so many Medicare people's call on me, and also I tell them I said who is this? And she said, this we trying to find out, are you still the president of the resident account? So, I said yeah, I said yeah. But I want to give a note, he paid something, you know? No, no. All right now, I'm going, I love you all. Thank you. Thank you. All right, I'm going I love you all. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you. See you later. See you later. That concludes our housing authority meeting. We do have the development court. Can I take a quick break please? Sure. Can I take a quick break please? Sure. Sure. Can I take a quick break please? Sure. Sure. Can I take a quick break please? Sure. All right. That concludes our housing authority. We do have the development court. Yes. Can I take a quick break please? Sure. Can I take a quick break please?