Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Charlotte County Board of County Commissioners' local transportation quarterly meeting for May 20th, 2025. Let the record show all commissioners are present. If you'll please rise for the pledge. I am pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it states one nation under the gull of indivisible liberty and justice for all. Next we will go to changes to the agenda, Mr. Flores. Coach Offguard. Thank you, not used to changes on these, but there was one item, change number one to item one one We added an attachment of fiscal update and that's it Do you have motion? Motion a second to Approved the changes to the agenda. Is there any further discussion? Is there any opposition to the motion that passes unanimously? Next we'll move on to public input anybody wishing to address the board during this portion of the meeting must fill out a card, state their name for the record, and state which agenda item or items will be addressed. Remarks shall be limited to three minutes and shall be addressed to the commission as a body and not to individual members. There will not be any discussion. Anybody from the public wishing to speak? call. Okay. We're going to move on to the first item, the quarterly transportation update presentation. And we have Mr. Elias approaching. Good afternoon commissioners for the record, John Elias Public Works Director. I would say a long time no see. It seems like it was only a couple hours we were here. Ironically enough, we had an MPO meeting yesterday and a lot of these topics were discussed. So a lot of the information I provided yesterday will be the same information I'm providing today. this is basically, this is basically a high level overview of some of the road project, transportation projects that we have. And following this, Mr. Arthur will go through the financial strategies surrounding how we're looking to try to fund these things, because there might be some challenges in some of these areas. The discussion points, I'm going to cover a Harborview road, Edgewater Flamingo, Bernstor, East West Connector, Kings Highway, Sandhill, Cranberry Hillsboro Roundabout, and Intersection Improvements. Harborview Road, this is an FDOT lead project. It's broken into two phases. The first phase is from Melbourne Street to date. The second phase is date to I-75. Harborview Road Phase 1, the design is that 90% plans are due by the end of this month, so we should be seeing those any day, and we're still working through utility coordination. The right-of-way acquisition has started, and the estimated completion date for the right-of-way acquisition is summer of 2026. And again, as mentioned, there's federal and local funding involved in this. Construction is programmed also in the year 2026. It's being funded through a lap agreement with FDOT and the county to manage the construction phase and we will most likely be outsourcing the construction engineering inspection element to it. Phase two and again we'll kind of get into some of this when we talk about the financial finances surrounding these projects. Phase two we're also supposed to get 90% plans in 2025 and the final plans will be available when ready for construction. The right of ways yet to be determined and the construction is yet to be determined because of the ambiguity surrounding the funding of phase one. Before I move on to any questions on a hard review. Any questions? Edgewater Flamingo widening. Edgewater Flamingo Phase 3, which is from midway to Collinswood, the design is 90% complete and we're obtaining permits. Edgewater Phase 4, Flamingo Phase 4, from Collinswood Boulevard tovard to Samantha, design is 90% plans and we're obtaining permits. Edge Water Phase 5 is from Samantha to state road 776. My apologies for that being covered on the 6. Design is 90% complete and we're obtaining permits commissioner constants. Yeah How much of the right of way do we already own these three phases? I believe I would defer to mr. Kippa, but I'm wanting to say I thought we were around 85% of the right away We've obtained and I think we've the majority that we have to still acquires on this final phase if I'm correct on that JB 30 more parcels 30 more parcels is according to the next slide. correct on that JV. 30 more parcels. 30 more parcels. Is it in the next slide? Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Yeah, by team knew that I was going to get asked that, unfortunately I didn't remember that it was on there. We've been acquiring on a voluntary basis. The acquisition we're still needing 30 parcels and that's scheduled, the construction schedule for 2027. And again, most of those we've been getting voluntarily. And I believe the final elements of right away that we're still trying to acquire are the red and the blue on this map. That's where those exist. But I think mainly on the blue, but I could be wrong on that. I know we've been working hard on the red section because that was the part that we knew well in advance was going to change the trajectory and I'm surprised we don't already have everything we need for five because that has a pretty wide open space. So Joanne Vernon for the record we do have most there are very few parcels that we need in the red and blue the phases four and five we do need a few in phase three for ponds and some of the roundabouts we need to do so. I mean it's not maybe not full parcels too it could be partial parcels. Okay, thank you. Thank you JB. So I remember on that discussion that was some of the design elements we brought to you all like the type around about we're wanting and some of the stormwater elements as well as what the roundabouts we were going to do just west of So a lot of that then necessitated us going out and getting additional right away. And as I've mentioned previously, this is still part of an overall project, the 776 Flamingo Intersection, but we're kind of treating it like it's its own project due to because this is going to be accelerated. The construction is going to be funded by an FDOT lap grant. The Northern leg will be constructed by a developer. We're finalizing 100% plans as we speak. We're obtaining project and utility permits and coordinating the design with the developer. And again, working through FDOT lap approval. Is that the same lap we're having problems on July? Yeah, hopefully that'll be worked out. That is one of the challenges that we're trying to make sure that that's why we're trying to take a stand on that particular project because that dictates how the rest of these play out. That is one of the challenges that we're trying to make sure that that's why we're trying to take a stand on that particular project because that dictates how the rest of these play out. Construction is slated for this project at 776 flamingo for the summer of this year. Construction engineering and inspection will be probably outsourced. The burnt store eastes connector was there any questions on this one? The Bernstor E-SWes connector, the preferred alternative was approved on September 25th of 2024 and the alignment is approximately where we're showing here. The right-of-way staff is requesting advanced funding for voluntary acquisitions of parcels and needed for the roadway. And staff is in discussions with developer about designing in lieu over four impact credits. So we've already had some of those discussions and a lot of them are very preliminary, but we have started those. Any questions on that? Yeah, just a question on the impact fee credit. Do we have a policy where let's say they want us to fund some of it, they get credit, but they do the project, they get impact fee credits for their proportionate share, or are they looking to do the entire road for impact fee credits? I'll let JB speak, but I think all that ultimately has to be approved by you all and it's a negotiation. So there are multiple developers out there that are willing to, at this point, come to the table and participate. So we don't anticipate it going over their impact fee credits, but it could. So that would all have to be worked out depending on how much impact fees that they're due and how expensive this road is. But. All right. Did that answer your question? Yeah, yeah. I was wondering about the participation. If the impact fee credits, I don't know what the engineers probably will cost. I mean, we have some numbers that we're using for budget. I don't know on the private sector what their numbers are going to look like. And then we have to calculate, I guess, the actual impact fees they'd be entitled to. And we have an impact fee coordinator that figures all that out. Correct. Yeah, so I'm just wondering if it would require any tax payer funds or if we would have enough through this process of impact fee credits to actually cover the entire road. Right, we're not far enough along in the process to know who's actually going to be coming to the table. We actually have a meeting, I think June 12th or something like that to discuss because the original concept was we do the design and they do the construction. We're now asking them to possibly do the design as well. So we're having that discussion and all that will be worked out and brought to you guys for agreements. Yeah, I mean looking at the cost of this road, I mean obviously any way we can push the cost to someone else even using credits That's I'd love to have that discussion. Yeah, thank you Commissioner Constance. Thank you. So the impact fees that I have to pay will be calculated based on What they develop that's a that's a set amount What's the calculation on the cost of the design the engineering and the construction? I know you don't have that answer, but I ask it because what it would cost us versus what it would cost them. I don't want to be valuing at what we're going to wind up costing and then they pay for it because they're going to wind up paying a lot less for what they would be covering versus okay you're going to pay for it with your impact fees but you're going to get it done and then we scale down or we you know we know that they're going to get a lot more done being able to bargain for it in the private sector than we will that's the whole efficiency of this. So how do we how do we look at what those fees are? I know it's part of the negotiation but I think it has to be clear that that's the reason we'd be doing it because there's value in having them do it at their lower price. And that's what they're credited on those, you know, X amount of dollars versus well, they got it done for half. So exposing how we make the cookies here a little bit, if you remember when we were talking at one point, we were having the discussion surrounding the Toledo Blade and the development going on over there between 7.76 and 41. And you all at one meeting decided you were gonna negotiate through that contract that day and we were scrambling in the back of the room to get costs. And the challenge and the balance we try to strike is we don't ever wanna come to you with a low-ball price and then the prices come in way higher. So we typically make sure that we've got everything that could possibly be included. And if anything, our numbers are probably slightly inflated. On these type of negotiations to your very point, we want to make sure that we're coming in as close as we can because then we'd be artificially giving them more than what they should be getting. And that's what the challenge we were trying to balance. we're trying to strike with the Toledo blade if that makes sense so all that has to be looked at to your point Thank you my other question relates to go back to the map So there's still a lot of real estate there. I see I'm assuming Ponds and things that are anticipated stormwater ponds. I know that there is possibly a fire station and a water tower there's things that are programmed in, but I was again informed by the administrator that some 88-grapassel on the west side of Bernstorro, which is way too low, and if it really had value, it already would be sold and developed. I'm completely not interested. I still want to see what this looks like with the anticipated sketches of just give me squares of where you think infrastructure for the candy is going to go. Maybe we can still put a park in here. It may, it may not be 88 or is it maybe less, but I just want to see, because there's opportunity, and I don't want to miss the boat and say, no, it can't be done. Yes, it can. We can figure it out. We can put a firehouse in the middle of a park. I mean, you know, I just don't want to lose an opportunity and have to double pay for something. Understood. think I heard some discussion about some right away being acquired for a utility or a fire station and I'm not sure where that's at but what I'm here and you say outside pay for something. Understood. And I do think I heard some discussion about some right away being acquired for a utility or a fire station and I'm not sure where that's at. But what I'm hearing you say outside of public works, you're wanting a bigger picture having the right away folks come in with all the other needs that we have with the other departments and maybe making sure we can do this in one fell swoop with the right away acquisition for this project. Well, we own all this land. So obviously we've got to make space for the road and the ability for the developers to get to their property, which is why they'd be involved. And I would hope the negotiation is more than impact fees. In other words, they should be willing to kick in a bit more because we went ahead and got this property going. This road really helps them. And I don't think it's appropriate that it's just a cost, you know, just by the book. We're brought value to the table. And in any other business negotiation, somebody that you're working with in a business relationship is going to see the value that you're bringing to the table and remunerate you for that. And I just think that, you know, doing this government a cost thing is for the birds. The taxpayers took risk, doing this, this government at cost thing is for the birds. The taxpayers took risk, bought this, are putting this in because we know it's the right thing to do. We don't have to give access. They can, they can be forced to build these roads themselves to get to it. So, and not on impact fees. I just got to understand where, you know, what the rule book says because if it seems like we're always going the extra mile for other people when okay we're building this road because we have to connect the two oh you want connection to it well you know we'll sell you the right away and you can put your road in. I think again getting going behind the scenes as a developer you're always trying to get the most bang for your buck and with the least amount of out capital outlay and with us We're always trying so there's always like an adversarial might not be the right word But there's always a competitive transactional relationship. We're certainly gonna try that We'd be working with our legal team to get through that and again every step along the way you all will be involved in that as those things develop. Okay. Edge, thank you. Quick comment. You mentioned Toledo Blade and Impact fees. If I'm not mistaken on the final deal, we took away the Impact fee credits. I don't remember. I just know the discussion was at the board meeting. There was, we were scrambling to get you a number because we were putting one together and it's like we didn't realize you're gonna. That dropped off on the final deal. Yeah, I'm not positive. OK. OK, I know. Intimately. OK, we got them. We got. that dropped off on the final deal. Yeah, I'm not positive. OK. OK, I know. Intimately. OK. We got them. We got them. Yeah, we got them to should. It was a net gain for us. Yes. We dropped that off. The other thing is this road was not developed or driven. This was part of our planning process. So to your point commissioner, for us to six lane, the other part of Bernstore, this road has to be done prior to, so to your point, it's definitely part of a long range transportation concept. Right, so I just want to make sure, I understand your comments, we certainly want to make sure everybody pays their fair share. But this was part of our planning process, it's not like the developers making us put this in for them. We put it in and they happen to be there. So I see a partnership. These impact fee credits, this is nothing new to Charlotte County. This has been around. I said before I've dealt with these in the past in my own prior life in a business owner and I've purchased impact fee credits. So I know how it works and it's a way for the County to get their long range transportation planning done while taking advantage of people, you know, property owners in the close proximity who would also benefit. It's mutual. And to your point, Commissioner, and to a broader point, when we talk about transportation related things, that's the balance we try to strike as we move forward through these, this plethora of projects that we're bringing to you you and the huge amount of costs that come to that, making sure we're doing that at the right time. Because if we had tried to do this years ago, we would have been on the hook to do this whole thing and the developers would have came in after the fact when the reality is if we can kind of wait and wait is not the right word, but just strike the balance of the timing of these things, then we can incorporate these other elements that can take some of the burden off the taxpayers. Well, Toledo Blade being a prime example, we waited and waited and waited and finally got the right deal. Hopefully everything works out and they pull through and do that road. I mean, everything else you're doing out there, you see, you mentioned the other day, you've seen Flamingo. I mean they're doing the work, hopefully as we move forward we're going to see the benefit. Unfortunately we had the waiting period but I assume they're going to execute until you don't blame the way they're executing on the balance of the projects I hope they do as well and we're in conversations with them the estimated construction is slated to begin the fall of this year. Before I move on. forward. This is widening from Sandhill Boulevard to the DeSoto County line. Currently the design is 100% complete and we're finalizing permits and the estimated construction is slated to begin the fall of this year. Before I move on. Anything on King's Highway? Sandhill Boulevard widening. This is widening from King's Highway to Deep Creek Boulevard. Again, recently we brought some design concepts to you all and you've weighed in on those. The design 30% plans are doing June of this year. Consultant will incorporate the design concepts that were recently improved at your direction. And the construction is estimated to begin the fall of 2026. Moving on to cranberry Hillsboro. Let me share your concerns. I'll let him present this because then I want to talk about the... Okay, so Cranberry Hillsboro, this is a joint project with Charlotte County in the city of Northport. The city of Northport has taken the lead on this. The design is 100% complete. We're working through FDOT permit, the final submittal right away temporary construction easements and estimated to begin by the end of 2025. We just had a... been trying to meet with the other local agencies surrounding us and talking about common issues and we just recently met with the sea of the report and the one challenge that they're still working through is an easement at the backside of that gas station property but I think that's kind of all that's holding this one up. Yes, come to the conference. You recognize? Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting geometry for that circle, but I get why they had to squish it in a little bit probably because of the wetlands or something over there. John, look at the disaster to the southwest. How did, I mean, and it's not you, maybe it's Sean Cullen, but how did we allow The the lanes that we have you know that follow through to the Southwest are you talking about Cornies? Yeah, yeah I mean it's it's completely Substantor that brought this up before but this is a really old picture. There's now a bunch of commercial stuff on that corner that's the Wawa's. Yeah. So, you know, we missed an ability to, you know, when plans came in, say, listen, we need to have you hold on this because we were looking at this intersection. That apron going to the, whatever that gas station is to the circle, okay? Yeah, to the right one that checks straight up in the air when you go. Yeah, how is that? You know, we talk about the rulebook all the time. That's not in the rulebook. I guarantee you it's not in the rulebook. You could launch into space off that ramp. This is a horrible, horrible situation and we got to fix it because people stack up on that road. mean, it's not fair. As I've said previously, that is one of the bigger challenges we have as the public works department. Respectfully, I would say a lot of the issues that you see over the years, whether it be from additional traffic to just geometry of intersections. A lot of the easy ones have been done. So we're left with these outliers like this and they're and they're several to be clear. Like I know we dealt with some on the access road and the proximity of the access road to 41 and all those roads that come in from the side. Another one that comes to mind is Sandhill and the congestion that you have out there at Sandhill at King's highway with the gas stations right there, so We're working through those, but again, I think at the time Cornies, because I used to live in Cornies in 1980s, just about three blocks from there, it was a quiet road in the middle of nowhere. You could literally lay in the middle of Cornies for hours at a time and not see a car, and now it's a major thoroughfare going through there. So that is some of the challenges that we're working through. I think you had mentioned that we're looking at the Toledo Blader in section 41 coming from Northport and the stacking of that lane and maybe doing some double. I know you also mentioned King's Highway at Harborview and trying to get more turn lane capacity there. Those are the things that will be worth it. Veterans heading west when you get to the North Circle. That lane needs to be extended for sure. I don't know about if we can double it up, but it needs to be extended because people stop with that light and there's no way to turn. And the arrow turns green and you're just sitting there in traffic and then it turns red and then the traffic moves and you're stuck at that light. Understood. Again, if you remember, even right here on 41 in Murdoch Circle, how far we've extended that as far as it could be extended with two lanes, and there's times that you'll still be stacked up in the queue waiting to even get in the turn lane just because of the volume of traffic. So we are looking at those. We have to wait one or three lights. Right. We are looking at those and working through them. And again, we've got some highlights of some intersection stuff that we're doing here, but you're involved with the MPO and you see all the priorities that come down. The city has questions. Northport's going to be put in this. And again, we've got some highlights of some intersection stuff that we're doing here. But you're involved with the MPO and you see all the priorities that come down. The city has questions. Northport's going to be put in some signals. They're going to want to partner with us on Hillsboro and Primeville. There's just so many of these and we've only got so much money to spread around. So we're trying to to your point, trying to do the easy ones and trying to do the ones that don't cost a lot of money that we can kind of do like minor modifications, but a lot of them end up being substantial modifications or worse right away acquisition on developed properties. So. Okay. Thank you. So speaking of intersection improvements, you should have led me in their commissioner true. I did. Veterans Boulevard at Cochran Boulevard intersection commissioner right before I got up here, my staff loves to do this to me. They sent me a text and said, remember Commissioner Constance wanted a detailed plan of this, and we had already submitted this. We will get you the detailed plan. We got one that shows much more than this. It was part of the press release that we recently did, but we will get that to you all. The next slide. Yeah. But I think we may have had something even more so than that, or this is pretty good. Yeah. Okay. So that's that's. recently did, but we will get that to you all the next slide. Yeah. But I think we may have had something even more so than that. Or this is pretty good. Yeah. OK. So that's projects getting underway as we speak. And again, as was mentioned at the MPO meeting, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But if anybody in the public listening to this, this project is intended to take six months. And there's going to be congestion here. It's one of the busier intersections in our county. If you can avoid this area, I would urge you to do so just because it's gonna be ugly over there while this is underway. We've attended to take six months and there's going to be congestion here. It's one of the busier intersections in our county. If you can avoid this area, I would urge you to do so just because it's going to be ugly over there while this is underway. We're going to do everything we can to minimize that, but you're going to break some eggs when you make a cake. So that's going to be the case with this particular intersection. We've also got some additional intersection improvements that we're doing that we're discussed at the MPO yesterday. The improvements at various locations have proved traffic flow and safety future long-term improvements may be needed at different intersections and we kind of touched on that. And we're grouping these to save money because it's similar type work. So we're adding veterans Boulevard at atwater 60% complete. We're adding right turn lanes, southbound at atwater turn lanes eastbound veterans and right turn lane westbound veterans. I've started taking this to get over the JBR and I will tell you that's another one that you've got the configuration of the road that's right parallel to it that people stack past that. These are going to be complex ones assault this will provide some some help. but long term there's gonna be some other things we'll be doing and probably having to make roads that don't go all the way be complex ones to solve. This will provide some help. But long term there's going to be some other things we'll be doing and probably having to make roads that don't go all the way through because you're coming, you have roads that come out right in the middle of a crazy intersection. So the next one I'm showing here is Veterans Boulevard at Yorkshire Street, 100% design, right turn lane from Eastbound Veteran and right turn lane from Westbound Veterans. Veterans Boulevard at Harbor, 100% complete right turn lane from Eastbound Veterans. Veterans Boulevard at Orlando Boulevard, 90% complete right turn lane from Eastbound Veterans. And Veterans Boulevard at Torrington Street, 100% complete right turn lane from Eastbound Veterans. Commissioner Dordy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I've got a question. I guess you brought it up at the NPO a little bit about stormwater. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. is insignificant enough? Joanne, were they gonna kind of give an exemption for that? Maybe. Sorry, Joanne Brenanne for the record. I believe they're modifying the permits slightly and maybe adding some additional volume maybe on the back slope. In cases where they have to. In most cases they are trying to do whatever they can to not have to. They have an exemption. Correct. Okay. It's close. To your point though, it's super challenging with the stormwater kings highway. Well, kings highway, I would argue, has more room than veterans when you look at how the proximity of the right away versus like the extended pavement and stuff. So it is a check-in through it. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. put all those huge poles in and they put their pipes and drives in. They got a modification. They weren't required to add any volume somewhere else, correct? That is correct. Yeah, so I mean, they took up, when you add them all up, it wasn't just one, it was a dozen or more. They put a driveway for every pole that had to get access. And they were able to do it without a major modification. So yeah. A question. Did they get a permit? Yeah, right away permit. Did you get a permit? And we did ask and they did submit something to SwiftMud. They did. They did. It's funny you say that. We wouldn't have normally said that but we were riding down the road I'm like, how do they do that? Did they get a permit? So that we've looked into it previously. They get better treatment than local government. Well people love their power in their ACA Well, just as an example, you know, we have our requirements on landscaping you look at quickly I had at water and veterans all the landscaping that they had in their in front of their building. Torn out, destroyed. Did they put it back? They could put low canopy stuff back, but I don't think they did. So I'm just curious. I mean, that's, I guess that's a question for community development. I certainly hope Dr. Quigley's not going to be approached and said, said, how come you know your plan doesn't look like what was permitted through the county. It was all FBNL. I'm just happy that it's somebody else game blame them. What's your change? It's amazing. So, you know, we're going through this, you know, not an exercise, but we're going through this process of improving veterans with all these access issues we're dealing with now, and that was a controlled access management roadway, wasn't it? Yes, limited. Yeah, I forgot what the term was. It was managed, access managed roadway, which was supposed to prevent a lot of conflicts in the future, but here we are revisiting all this stuff again. You know, imagine if it wasn't managed. Where will we be today? For sure. Yeah. The final ones I show on here are veterans Boulevard at Loveland, 100% complete right turn lane from eastbound veterans, and veterans Boulevard at Norman Street, 60% complete right turn lane from eastbound veterans. And before I move on, I think there's also some R cuts and some different things that we're gonna group as part of a different project, but these are the ones that we're working on right now to get moving out here relatively soon. Peachland Boulevard at Harvard Boulevard intersection. Again, we're adding left turn lanes and all four directions, the intersection designs at 30%. Who remembers when that wasn't even a signalized intersection? It was just kind of out in the middle of nowhere. And now it's like a busy intersection with needing turn movements on all legs. Mr. Chair. Yes, Mr. Conference. Yeah, I mean, again, it's, I wish part of the planning were dedicated right turn lanes, you know, that we had enough real estate to get those in, because it's still going to be very backed up at the lights, because you don't have the ability to get the traffic turning out. And so that through traffic lane is going to stack up, and why would you even bother putting in a left turn lane when they can't get to it. It's going to be very difficult. Or design it now with much more length to that turn lane to get people over there. But I guess I'd have to understand the timing intervals, too, because if it's going to be at least 30 seconds a minute, you know, a pretty new direction, then I guess you can get that turning, there's turning cars through. We can look at that, sir, but again, the challenge you have with a lot of these is you might be buying properties there. Developed houses. So that's the challenge. We also have very similar challenges surrounding like the bridge, all the bridges in Charlotte County. Like you have to give it to general development. When they planted this, they planted every available parcel, including right up next to bridges and around bridges and like for us to do any work, we're almost working like ideally we would have had all those squares around the bridge. That would be property that would help us do access and maintenance and stuff and that's kind of what we're again harbor peachland harbor never even used to go through because veterans didn't exist it was a dead end road out in the middle of nowhere and now it's like it's a major corridor so hindsight's 2020 I guess I will say also without getting too far ahead of my skis, that in conversations we've had with Commissioner Dordy and just again, trying to strike the balance of, we're gonna see shortly how we're gonna have challenges funding the projects that we have. We are looking at things like all the major corridors through the county that have the wider right-of-way. Those are things that we should look at to possibly, like when are we gonna expand Gulf Stream? When are we gonna expand Spinnaker? All these roads that are your major corridors, if you look at why the houses so far away, well when GD developed it, they had the thought that it was just a wider road. And those are roads that will probably be at some point, again, without projecting and getting realtors and a panic, four lane roads at some point in the future. So we're trying to look at that and we'll certainly look at those right movements and left movements to make sure that we're incorporating everything look at that and we'll certainly look at those right movements and left movements to make sure that we're incorporating everything at the time that we're doing it while we have the right way. Always looking at harbor peach. to Is that math flipped? It's the north is to the right. It is where you're saying it. Incorrect orientation. That's all right. Because I'm like there's an empty lot on the northwest corner which is on the south. Okay. So got it. Harbor's going in that way. Yeah. So, I mean, the fact that there's no house on that corner, is there an opportunity to jog the orientation maybe and get a little bit more? You're talking about at this corner right here? I'm not even positive that there's not a house on that corner. I have to think about it. I can't remember off the top of my head. Yeah. I know there's significant drainage elements there. 48-inch pipes going under the ground coming out there, going underneath the head wall that we built some time ago when we put a sidewalk there. I don't know. We could certainly look at that. But again, I think we're just in the 30% design. We can certainly try to take a look at that. But the Google maps are pretty updated. And I don't see anything on that northwest corner. So just, you know, food for thought, if that, obviously, it's not, it's not around about situation. But there's ways of edging things around a little bit. Maybe that might help. I don't know. Okay, before you put the mast arms in the ground. Thank you. Well, there's already mast arms there. We're just doing different things. That's true. Okay, thank you. So moving on to Harborview King's highway intersection. This was the one that we asked for state appropriations for to- Hold Hold on back up a minute. You said there's masks. There's already a signalized intersection there. Yeah it is. It's cable I believe but there's definitely a signalized intersection. Okay commission to say oh you're coming from Home Depot going home and you cross harbor. There's definitely a light there Okay, I'm thinking of a different street I'm thinking of Posada. Yeah, for sure. You're going home. Yeah That's why you're always seeing me when I'm out walking Did you take a Quasada for sure? Yes, not a civilization or something? Something altogether different and I grew up in this neighborhood. So Harborview Kings Highway again this was a state-appropriated funded project we're exchanging the span wire signals from mass-armed for hardening part of the overall project to harden the traffic signals in the county, bid in February of 2025 awaiting FDOT notice to proceed for approval. Little bug in your ear, this is also potentially a lap issue that we're working through. So we're hoping it's not. So we're optimistic that we're going to navigate to that. Gasparl road intersection improvements. Gasparl road at Ingram, Ingram Boulevard at Gasparl road and we're tonneed east Boulevard. They're outlining their improvements, adding signals, turn lanes, analysis is currently being done. New pedestrian crosswalks and lighting, design estimated completion in January of 2026 and construction of spring of 2026. Commissioner Truex. John, is there any possibility of getting around about on 771 at Rotunda Boulevard East instead of light? I think that would make a lot of sense right there. It's another possible traffic control also because of speed. Speed control, conflict control. Yeah, we can certainly, we can certainly, obviously, you're the Board of County Commissioners, you can tell us to do whatever you all wish. Thanks for reminding us. We'll certainly look at it. The issue again will probably be roundabouts typically take a little bit more right away. But that's something we can certainly explore. I was gonna say, if you can rewrite my job description, it'd be great. We can certainly look at that though. Thank you. And thanks for reminding me, I was wondering what I was doing up here. We'll certainly work it, whatever direction you guys give us. That's all I have on here, And again, I think we're just gonna come up and explain the financial challenges we'll have with these projects. So thanks, and if I'm trying to think there's, we're gonna look at, Cornie S, we're gonna look at the intersection for right away, dedicated right turn lanes, we're gonna try to incorporate everywhere that we can. We're gonna look at the orientation of Harvard Northwest Carter, look at bumping the intersection potentially and we'll look at roundabouts of the signals of 771 in return. Any other questions before we move on to the physical portion? Okay. Rick's walk up song is money money money money. Hey John, I like the way you're recapping everything. Well it's because my brother. No you, I've noticed now you're starting to do that. Good job. Keith, there's a one-channel asked John, you know what you need to do. Yeah, exactly. I just closed it out. He leaves and he's in the way. What was I supposed to do again? Yeah, exactly. It's got to go watch the video. All right, Ric Arthur, fiscal services. Now the fun part. Okay, so yeah, I'm going to give you just a kind of a preview of a bigger picture you're going to see on Thursday when Francine takes you through the infrastructure or strategic focus area workshop. But today I'm just going to look at just the transportation project project section of that so we can look at the challenges we're facing and then I'll give you update on some of the things we discussed at the finance committee meeting. A couple, I think it was maybe March, a couple months ago. There were some questions that were asked and so we're bringing back some information on that and then we're going to get into what our recommendations are So on the transportation projects if you pull everything that's transportation Row projects related from our CNA together This is what you get and you can see it's quite a bit 332 million is what we have programmed in this six-year window on our CNA. And I think most of these are ones that John just talked about. Now if you match those to our revenues, you can see that we've got impact fees designated and those numbers are updated. We have looked at what we've collected a year today for fiscal year 25 and projected out to come up with right around just over 17 million in impact fees. So we just held that flat to be conservative for the six year window here. We also programmed in some grant money that I believe is tied to the Harborview project as well as some dollars we already have program for 2014 sales tax for Edgewater Phase 4 and 2020 sales tax for Harborview Phase 1 so you can see when you tally all up all the revenues up we're at 200 million so quite a bit of a shortfall there. So before we get into recommendations on that I'll give you some updates from our discussion at the Finance Committee and some of the questions that were raised. Okay so at the Finance Committee meeting there was some question about what might it cost to defer some of these projects because there's such large amounts. We look specifically at these three because these are the big ones. You can see just using our inflation factors that we use on the CNA currently. If you move any of these projects from where they're slated out two years, five years or 10 years, that's kind of the, gonna give you a ballpark of what you can look at and increase. So it's quite costly to defer. Hilltop also gave a projection around these three projects at that meeting. Now we did work with them a little bit. As you know, looking at our slides, I just showed you, those are how we have them budgeted, we front loaded. That's not necessarily how the dollars are Gonna flow once the project starts so we worked with hilltop on that to kind of come up with a realistic cash flow and In their projection it looked like we wouldn't need any any Money to to begin with as far as going out and needing to do any financing They think that's something that we can continue to monitor annually bring back to the finance committee if we're starting to see where we're going to project, have a short fall in a year and need some additional funds. But they did suggest bringing back a reimbursement resolution for those projects. So we're working with them currently to develop that. We'll be bringing that back to you at a board meeting very soon. And as you know, we do those with the utility projects now. So we'll just do a separate one for these row projects. All right and then additionally was asked you know what as far as mileage options you know what would it what would a tenth of a mill generate annually and how much would you need to generate a million dollars annually so we we ran those two numbers based on the 2024 taxable valuations. A tenth of a mill would raise just over 3.2 million annually. And for just a million flat, that's going to be about 300 sub-a-mill. All right, so now onto the recommendations. We are suggesting that we allocate 50% of the 2026 sales tax extension to road projects. Currently we're forecasting that we would receive $36 million a year annually. That would total out to an allocation of $113 million. That would be allocated to road projects. Additionally, we'd request that if we have any leftover dollars from the 2020 sales tax and there might be a little it's too early right now to tell exactly what that amount might be that we would allocate those as well. So on the next slide I put in a projection with the sales tax allocated so you could see what the bottom line looks like. Commissioner Dordy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, I agree that first of all, on your projection on 2026 numbers, I agree with roughly 50%. I think that makes a lot of sense. But however, if you look at your spreadsheet, I don't think those numbers add up to 113. They don't. If there's a delay, $18,400,000. Yeah, there's delay in how we collect the sales tax. So you're seeing where the dollars would fall through the years, but we would collect the additional amount in the outside of that six year window. Outside. So we've been in the full total. Yes, yes. but we wanted to show the actual full impact. Well the reason I bring it up is that the shortfall ends up being for the six year window ends up being about 42 million as opposed to the 18. Yeah. OK. And it's going to be the same thing, kind of like what I talked about with how the cash flow of the project will fall to. It won't exactly fall in the years that we show them there. They'll obviously flow out over time. Revenue is good flow in higher too. Yeah, exactly. We were being conservative. When I brought you the sales tax update last month, I think we were looking at over 40 million for this year and projecting 38 for the the next the remaining years. So, you know, this is a conservative estimate at 36 million. Same thing with the impact fees. They're down this year from what we collected last year. I believe we're right around 23 million and we're projecting at 17 million this year. But then, you know, we've seen that the Metro forecast that, you know it looks like we're going to continue to have growth. So we felt comfortable with at least keeping the impact fees flat for this period. So I guess just to look at those two bullets in your previous slide I guess as far as recommendations I do support the allocating at this point anyway 50% of the 2026 for road projects. It's extremely important that we focus on infrastructure. I think with this next referendum, again, the numbers won't be quite 1-13 within that window, but it'll be close. Yeah, and this is a ballpark, but it looks pretty good. It could be, if could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be. structure. So people see, you saw it, I think during your campaign season, people were supporting infrastructure. So I think it's a, it's it, I think, during your campaign season, people were supporting infrastructure. So, I think it's a wise move by this board. At least at this point, look at that kind of an allocation. Thank you, sir. Mr. Drex. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to propose we take a look at something a little bit differently here. And that is, the% is a good number, but I think we need to look at the overall deficit. The short fall for all the project is 131.5. And we're going to see and you baked in inflationary factors in this. So I would suggest we look at what is the percentage to make sure we cover that deficit or that shortfall in total as opposed to just 50% and being at 1.13. It's another 18 million dollars. It's not a huge thing so it's a small percentage but I think we look at covering that entire dollar amount and not just look at 50%. That would be my goal and I think it's very much supported by the public and we're only talking about another half to one point, half a point. What is it? I can't do math right now. quick. Napkin math. Napkin math. 58% 58% roughly. Yeah. Okay. Well, another 18 million, I think we should do it. That's actually. Is it 18? Pardon? Is it 18 or is it 42? Well, the six year number is 131 for 41. Oh, I'm sorry. What I did is I took the 113 and added the 18 and a half million and then divided that by the total projected and That gave me 58. Yeah, you've got years where there's gonna be bigger, but yeah My point is is that the goal was to cover it all over that period of time Oh, I see what you're saying now because because of the shortfall right the Where the six-year window. Yeah, I I use the six years. use the six years, sorry. Yeah, that's what I was referring to. The six-year total. You're done, sir? OK, put your concerns here, recognize. Thank you. I mean, I'm understanding of Mr. Trix's point. But again, the numbers we're projecting for the expense is pretty clear. The revenue projections are very conservative. So maybe even at 50%, we're going to do, you know, because we were projecting 18, according to the back, we were projecting 18 million for the 2014, I think, and we came in at 24. We were projecting 18, Gordon's in the back. We were projecting 18 million for the 2014, I think, and we came into 24. We were projecting 24 for the 2020. We were coming in at 32. So another projecting 36. I think if we stick with 50, we're probably going to be OK. And then we can always work at covering. I think it is better optics to just stick with the 50 than to try to load heavily. But I'm listening if that's what we have to do. I think we've done historically done well. And I think that 50% is probably going to be close. Thank you. Mr. Trex, thank you. You know, I understand that. I just think that we're going to have tier two projects and these are extremely necessary projects. So I think the priority should be there. But if we're getting, you know, instead of 36 and we're getting 42, obviously the percentage can be reduced just to cover. It's not as much about the percentages. it is about the dollar amount to cover the need that we have. So, I mean, I'm flexible to it. However, we want to do it. I just think that the emphasis needs to be put on these roadway projects, because we all know what's coming in the next six years. We already see it and we need to make sure we're prepared for it. So, that's all. Okay. Commissioner Dordell. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think what we're saying, bottom line is nothing lower than 50%. And we want to get these projects built. We don't want a piecemeal. Right, that's another assumption we're building into this thing. These are all the dollars needed to get them done. So I think quite honestly, it really is it really is a cash flow situation, right? We just don't know, totally what's gonna happen on the revenue side. I think we wise for us, again, if the board wants to get these things all done, that we strongly consider, and I think y'all brought it up at the finance I was sitting in the audience, is some sort of a line of credit. Something along that line, That's why I didn in business, to make sure when you had cash flow issues, you could take care of it. So, you know, we could be okay here 50%, but I'm not against bumping that percentage up too, to get the jobs done, you know, bottom line. It's just somewhere in that ballpark, 50 to 60% will get it done. But I still think it would be wise to look at some kind of financing, simple financing technique like a line of credit. Have we ever had a line of credit before? I don't know. I have to talk with the clerk's office. Gordon's kind of not in the bid. It's been around a little longer than me. And how much? The water authority did this several years ago. I remember when we got going on some of these projects out there and decided to go along, credit. Not since I've been here, but it clearly happened during Murdoch Village during the acquisition of progress out there. Right. Thank you, sir. The other thing I want to point out, we just, oh, do we know who you are oh Gordon Burger Director of Budget Ministry of Services. I just want to point out that 18 million dollars a year 50 percent that that's just a number up there there's no reason we can't I mean that's just cash flow 36 million a year you can use the 36 million dollars from the first year the second year third year in finance the other projects later yeah it's it's it's it's really easy to adjust the cash flow. Yeah, so I'm gonna jump in here. Thank you, Commissioner Trex for deferring here. I go with something. So here's, I'm gonna be optimistic first. Based on the slides, we're essentially two thirds there. We're short a third. So we're 67% to our goal. That's not bad, right? That's not bad. We've already identified funding. So I'll take that any day. Two thirds of the loaf, right? So now it's just that the bottom third we got to figure out. What scares me the most is the cost of deferment. That slide is scary. Oh, yeah. Yes. The cost of a line of credit will be far less than keeping up with these costs of deferment. Two years, five years, it's going to get worse exponentially. So the net benefit to the taxpayer by doing a line of credit or finding others, we talked about the mill. Nobody wants to do that. But I'm just saying it's there just to give you an example. What that would generate would be the ability to get these projects done in whole and we could probably demonstrate the deferment savings based on prioritization of the projects and when we start them. It's going to be in the tens of millions of dollars in savings. So yeah, I agree 50% at a minimum. We've got to figure out a weighted deliver on these projects and save the taxpayers an enormous amount of money in deferment costs. That that scares me the most. The failure to do something today and not finding ways to plug the whole and get it done. That's why I'm focused on that that third that last third. So you know I feel like feel like we're in good shape. And just to close that gap, I think we're close. Commissioner Truex. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To that point, I mean, and Rick's comments about being able to front load some of these projects, it's the combination of what we can address at the point in time we're dealing with these projects. Because the firm of other projects is going have a similar negative impact, right? So when it comes to all this, I think that based upon the traffic flow of our community and the growth that we're looking at over the next several years, these are extremely important projects, whether we go into 50% and we front load it, whether we modify that percentage a little bit, we need to look at going forward what's the most financially responsible way to address this. And that means, do we get a line of credit? Do we frontload the transportation side of it? There's a bigger picture than just transportation. So when it comes to sales tax conversation down the road, we need to take this conversation and plug it into that conversation and fully incorporate everything together to come to our best decisions. I think we don't do any less than 50% at the end of the day. I'm certainly flexible to do a little bit more, but as long as we're front loading and moving these projects, the deferment costs are tremendous, tremendous. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, sir. Good. Commissioner Conson. Thank you. You go to your next slide. Oh, good. So, I have a question. Do you have questions? Do you have any other questions we're making this decision to dedicate 50% of the sales tax money, what does that do to our community outreach efforts with how the public wants to have their projects, which projects they want, and how they want them prioritized, because are we going into this saying, we're dedicating 50%, so actually you only have 50% of the dollars to use moving forward, because we're going to, whatever you send us, we're going to slice it off and we're doing 50, I mean, so I got to understand this in the process or is this something that these are two conversations happening where, yeah, we're talking about this but we're still going to be getting all that information and then we have to decide can we do it? But ultimately we're deciding what the projects are going to be and then that goes on the ballot. So again, just a question. I don't have the answer, but you know, it sounds like we're making a pretty significant decision right now about how we're going. So do we go into the sales tax conversation with this as the bumper? Or do we have this conversation, but then let the process go the way it goes and then we bring this in at the end. Commissioner Dory, I had Jeanette. Would you like to hear from her first? Okay. You're recording. You're going to say the same thing I was going to say. I think you're just foreshadowing your thoughts at the moment without the public input. So based on the information that you have right now, this is what your priority would be, but you're sending it off to the group to come up with their prior organization also. And then that information comes back to you, and then you make the decision. Well, good, because that's what I think was the way we should be doing it, and I wanted that on the record. Right. But yeah, I wanted to, and essentially that's what I was going to say is that we're making an assumption from things we've heard. I think Emily Lewis brought it for too. I think in some of the survey information showed strong infrastructure support. So we have made an assumption. So that'll be validated though by that group. And I'm hoping we'll come back with the same answer. We're just getting ahead of it a little bit but I don't think that's a problem. I think that's it's good for them to understand and see if they do agree you know but yeah then we're scrambling if we go with entirely different focus on it but I don't think they will that's the key. I mean I'm trusting that that'll work out. Thank you sir. I would also say that it's our job. This is a transportation quarterly meeting. We have to be planning we can't wait a year to get feedback on the decisions we're making today we need to give staff direction on plugging these holes and getting these projects move forward that's what so we're doing our job so you know we have to give some direction on on on how we can fund these priorities. And it shouldn't impact the sales tax folks that they're making recommendations. They can bring back, they can listen, maybe they're listening to this meeting, future members of that. But they're in this community too. And they're going to look at our CNA. They're going to be presented with that. And they're going to prioritize and put things in tier one and tier two and make their recommendations. But it always comes back to the board anyway. I think they understand that. They're recommendations. It's not a final list. So, you know, we're going to have that ability to move things around. Commissioner Constance, you recognize? Yeah, I mean, I guess Emily is going to be taken over that leading charge on that. It might not be a bad suggestion that that group once it's created and has starts meeting that they watch Mr. Farmer and his Metro forecasting meeting that they actually show them that meeting and then show them this meeting because I think they need to understand what we're seeing and what we're up against so that they can make informed decisions and not just do things in a vacuum. They can listen to us or not listen to us, but I think if I were in that group, I'd want to know what's happening and rather than a signed homework, I think it'd be better for them to sit in the room and have a couple of meetings where Emily, you know, has them educated as to process, as to the latest information, all of the things that we're privy to, and then say, okay, now that you've seen where we're at, Parks, Master Plan, you know, whatever she thinks is good to get them up to speed, then they can go ahead and start deliberating on about projects. Because she knows what's in the book, she knows what they're going to be looking at, propossibilities, so she'll know what would be the proper background material for them to be viewing. Thanks, sir. I have a question on the deferment slide again. So you've picked three projects, East West Connector Edgewater and Harborview. Obviously, Harborview and Edgewater are much closer. So those potentially, if we were fully fun, that we can start within the two-year deferment cycle you show in the first grouping there. The East West Connector, that may be further out. We may be stuck with the deferment anyway, right? That force, I'm looking at the 44 at 40 for confirmation, but I'm pretty sure that that 40 783 number already is the escalated price for where it stands, okay, so then this would be Deferring it from there. Oh, yeah, look at deferring two years. It's it's like three years at a year and a half. So it's wondering what those projected costs reflected. Yeah. So it's got some number time. I see an A. Yeah. So what's in there a year or two? Let's go back on the moon. What should show up? So here's how it falls. So the big chunk is in 30. So it already is inflated out in those years. So it would be deferring it from there. OK. OK. And that's what we did for all of them. Yeah. All right. So it was deferred, years, so it would be deferring it from there. Okay, okay. And that's what we did for all of them, okay. Yeah. All right, just so it was deferred, yeah, because it was kind of a, well, you know, we wanted it to correlate with what we were putting on, on the, you know, wear fell in the year here, we were, it's none of these projects are shovel ready. Right. They're getting, some are getting closed. We're getting close. We're getting close to sounds like. Yeah, but we're not there yet. Okay. Any more comments on the side Okay, thank you, Mr All right. Thank you. Okay. All right. We're gonna move on to comments Mr. Flores Just thank you for the feedback. We definitely will start with that 50% number and then I think it's just the picture gets. We can certainly adjust to where it's favorable. And then also as we monitor the current 2020 sales tax with that surplus really ends up looking like so. Appreciate the input from board. Thank you. Mr. Norton. I have no comments. Thank you. Okay. We'll start to my left. Commissioner Deutsch. Commissioner Chouek. I'm good. Okay, Commissioner Constance. Well, since we're doing transportation, we had an MPL meeting yesterday, where we officially found out that our district one secretary is resigning or has resigned, or will be, it's probably another couple of weeks, but then he's gonna be in the private sector. So we're gonna miss Elk and Nandam did a great job over his eight plus years with us. We did tackle some interesting issues in the 50, the Long Range Transportation Plan for 2050. And there were some lines on the map, one specifically running from Jones Loop through the ranchettes, through Polallango, so up to 17, which I had a discussion with Mr. Hall after the meeting. And I said, you know, there's theory and there's reality. And you're painting a four-lane road where there's not even an accepted street. So we had this long-droned conversation. All the other improvements are already roadways that are public and we have access to. So the fact that he said it had been on other long-range plans before, where a lot of folks in the audience that were not happy. And we explained that even if it was approved and even it was going to go forward to be literally decades before that ever happened, but just looking at it and knowing what an instrumentable effort it would be to get folks aligned. And then, my God, we'd have to start taking property. That's never going to happen. So we all said, look, you can leave it on the map as a dotted oval. There would be a good idea to have some sort of a connector in here somewhere. But there's no roadway now. I mean, we have had so many issues with trying to organize a specific roadway through that area in the county, and it's just not gonna happen. One suggestion was, well, just run it along the wilderness preserve, and, you know, we tried doing that with Bernstore Road, and we had to move how many power poles because the state would absolutely not budge, so. The bonded back. Wasn't that one of your hangups over there on Bernstor. We had to study for that. Yeah. Living under the overpasses. Yeah. So anyway, it was it was good meeting and then they're pushing hard in Florida for electric vertical takeoff and landing vehicles Piloted and then eventually un-piloted. So we heard about that at the national level at NACO now the states Pushing hard to get that messaging out. I think there's a lot of Companies and capital that really want to move this forward. So it's going to be interesting to see Punnagorda with an airport is Definitely going to be a ground zero we're the map but there will be other pods that are almost like a hella pad which as long as there's not wires around and because they're going to be flying at a certain level that then I don't know that they're gonna need air traffic control because they'll be low so it's going to be very interesting to see what that map looks like, but stay tuned That's it. Thank you. Mr. Dordy. Yeah, just building on the MPO discussion yesterday also came up as part of the Long Range Transportation Plan Mr. Rolpe brought up the fact that There's this an opportunity to look at I guess a potential conceptual option I guess would be the way to describe it, of taking in not only continuing on the efforts with the Yorkshire Raintry interchange that Northports pursuing with Sarasota Manatee MPO, but also to take a look possibly at a modification, significant modification to the King's Highway I-75 interchange. I think they call it the collector district distributors or something of that nature. And it's done. If you look at a legal road in I-75 down by RSW, others up on I-4, they do come in after the fact, after you've had development and things are messed up like we have a King's Highway veterans. This effectively though would allow, if the concept becomes reality, and in effect what we would have is actually de facto interchange also with veterans through this system. Not an actual interchange, but it would be the ability to sit on ramps and so forth to distribute the traffic off the King's Highway and veterans independently onto the Interstate. It's a great concept, very expensive, very expensive. But the MPO, Sarasota, MnT MPO and City of Northport, working on it Mr. Flores got with this city manager They're working on it, but it's not a super high priority for the Sarasota MnT MPO I mean they've got so many other I think Mr. Rolls said they what do you say 40 they might have 40 other projects that have a higher priority But whatever it's it's so it'll happen maybe someday but it's way on down the timeline. This would also be take quite a while, but I think it's important for the community to understand though that we are looking at that and see how it shakes out. So they're coming back at our next meeting, August the 4th. Staff is MPO staff with the consultant, I guess, to give us an idea as to what actual type of study would be. It's like a feasibility study, but what DOT has different terms for different studies. So they'll come back, that's the way I understood it, Mr. Oled, come back, along with LACS, come back and let us know what they recommend. And we'll go from there. But I think it's worth it. it's worth the effort to see if this has a possibility. And if I can, Mr. Chair, Mr. Gatherer has even mentioned that they might be willing to kick in to help fund the study. On the study, great. So that's great. So anyways, that's all I had, sir. Yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up. I think one of the other issues is by having that particular distributor, it falls into the control of Charlotte County. Right, exactly. Which may or may not help things. I think it was more helpful as what I was getting from. That's correct. That was one of the real pluses with this. When they won this first mention to me here a while back that yeah, at least we had control over working with FDOT. What I didn't understand though was that they said this would be more expensive than creating a brand new interchange. I couldn't figure that one out. I don't know how it could be more expensive. There could be some additional bridges. Yeah, I guess. Things of that nature. Great separation of ramps. Yeah, the ramps. But we'll see. Yeah. So in regards to transportation, I was listening to the task force on property tax reform. And it was actually our representative, Danny Nick, who brought up the fact about gas tax as being flat for the last decade. So I think, you know, there's a recognition throughout the state, the fact that he brought it up. I think he's been talking to staff, I think, to understand what our finances are like and where we get our money from. So he, in listening to him, it sounds like he was looking at how our ad valorm dollars spent because he was taking stuff literally right. It sounded like right out of our budget documents. I think he looked at Sarasota and he looked at Charla County. You know, I continue to see pressure, I think on local governments with things that are happening at the federal and state level. And I think it would be helpful to get a budget ironed out up at the state level so we can understand here at the local level what we're up against for the next year. So hopefully we're going to get that information really soon. But I was glad to hear him talking about transportation funding and how it's remained flat. And it doesn't even come close to keeping up with construction indexing for road construction. There's no indexing for that. I don't know how they look at that at the state level. on, you know, do you look at EVs? Do you look at adjustments in the gas tax? I'm not sure how that all functions, but it's at the state legislative level. I think we have caps here in the county and on our gas tax on what we can and can't do. I think it's got to go through legislation. Anybody here? No. It's legislative. Yeah, Gordon. Gordon Burr for the Director of Budget Administrative Services. Yeah, we have, we've been maxed out on our local tax for years. So you would take something at the legislative level to authorize us to go beyond what we've already issued. It's just hard to believe that with the amount of cars on the road and the growth based on the numbers we're seeing. How is it that it's flat? I just don't get that. We've talked a lot about that because even if it's based on three factors, the form is based on miles of road, population, and actual gas sold. But even if we were getting a disproportionate amount, the total in the whole state has to have gone up with the amount of people that are coming into Florida. Yeah, and we did. We talked to Representative Nick about it, hopefully we could shake something, but we've never been able to get an answer for what the total amount is. And that's, you know, I'm looking at the metro forecasting numbers. I'm like, how in the world is our numbers flat? I mean, is something going on the way they divvy it up at the state that they're getting, we're not getting our full share. You'll see some figures on Thursday? We actually brought in last last year. Mr. Chairman, it's like FEMA 2.0. Nobody knows how it's calculated. I remember when I first got elected, we had a conversation about the gas tax and it seemed kind of nebulous in when we get our share. So I still don't understand it, but I assume the state's giving us what statutorily we're supposed to be getting, but it doesn't seem that way. Right. Commissioner George. A lot of people that traditionally drove are now using Puntograder Airport, believe it or not. I know dozens of people now that used to drive, they fly back and forth because it's so easy. I don't know who's on the roads then, because they're on the roads. then because they're on the roads for sure. If there's no further comments we've completed our agenda this meeting is adjourned.