Music Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm everyone. Today is September 17th, 2024. It's a little after 2.30 p.m. This is the City of Beverly Hills City Council study session and we will start with oral communications. If there's anyone in chambers who has an item that is not on the agenda that they would like to present to us now would be the time. Not seeing anyone in chambers will go over to our city clerk see if there is any comments on non-agenda items. We do not have comments for non-agent items. Okay, so we will move right along close, close public comment on non-agent items. Go to item number A1, request from young Israel of North Beverly Hills to host Simclas Torra celebration and Patty Bettencourt will be presenting on this. Thank you. Mayor Friedman, Council members, city staff, my name is Patty Betancourt with special events in filming. Today I'm also joined by, um, Rabbi R.A. as well as public works and the police department. Young Israel of North Beverly Hills is here requesting approval for a street closure to host Simclott Torah celebration and support of permit and personnel few waivers. The event will be held on Thursday, October 24, 2024. The request from young Israel, a local synagogue that was established in 1993, has become a popular place of worship for the community. Young Israel would like to celebrate the completion of the reading of Torah scroll with the larger than usual celebration and honor the memory of those who lost their lives during the October 7th events in Israel. The celebration will require street closure in front of young Israel on all-dendrive between Foothill Road and Maple Drive. The street will close on Thursday, October 24th at 5 p.m. for set up and traffic control equipment. Event will be from six to 10 and cleanup will begin from 10 p.m. to 11.59 p.m. Safety and traffic control in the city remain a top priority for city staff in young Israel. Traffic control officers will help in managing the street closure and traffic at Foothill and Maple Drive from start to finish as well as sworn officers on site during event hours. Public works and BHPD have requested that Meridian Barriers get used at each end of the closure for safety of guest attending. Young Israel will work with a professional traffic control company to ensure street closure equipment, including Meridian Barriers are properly set up according to a proof plan by Public Works. Notification letters will be mailed out to all residents and businesses within 500 feet of the event at least two weeks prior to the event. Consistent with the city policy for event street closures. The requested closure of Alden Drive should not result in major traffic impacts because the event would occur during evening hours so traffic volumes on Alden Drive are relatively low. And there are multiple other routes available for motorists. Staff will ask young Israel to ask attendees to be respectful to the neighbors and keep noise to a minimum when departing the event. The waiver of fees does not include non-city items that are required for the event, which will be the responsibility of young Israel, such as notifications, traffic control equipment, and other vendor-related expenses. City Council can waive all permit fees and personnel fees totaling 7,425. Waves City permit fees totaling 5,203, or waive no fees. Staff recommend City Council approve the request by young Israel of North Beverly Hills to host Simcuttsora celebration as recommended by the liaison. I'd now like to invite Rabbi R.A. up to say a few words. Thank you, Petty. Good afternoon. When we came before the council last, there were requests about security and we worked together with Patty to ensure that we have the correct agencies and companies that have worked with the city in the past to ensure that we have the Meridian barriers, the traffic plan coordinated correctly with the police department with our security personnel. In addition, there was a crest that we would ensure that all synagogues would be invited. And we went to every length. We currently have Temple Emanuel, Temple of the Arts, Robert Benzakain, at Mug and David, Robert Neurola, the Chabadza Beverly Hills, all joined in on this initiative. As we had initially said, the question had arose, how could we dance on the Hebrew anniversary of October 7th, is the holiday of Simhattura? The answer we kept coming back to was together. It's the only way. We're really, really excited, God willing, to be able to have a beautiful unified event for the community. Thank you. We can answer any questions now. Okay. With Council Member Wells's permission, perhaps I can give the lay-as-on report. Okay. So this was presented to the lay-as-on. And as the rabbi aptly said, one of the concerns that we had that is that we wanted this to be a memorial, it can't be a religious event because the city cannot sponsor religious events. Our part of this is the fact that it is a memorial because it was exactly one year to the date in terms of the Jewish calendar, that is the reading of the end of the reading of the five books of Moses and Simclastura, which is the celebration of it. We wanted to make sure that it was not limited to the one synagogue. It was a condition that we put on it that it had to be uniform. And as the rabbi stated, they have done the outreach so that it is clear that everyone is invited to come to this. The concern about the businesses around there, I know that there are at least the two animal hospitals will have to make sure that there is access to those because I don't know exactly what time they closed, but there are emergencies that occur there. We were concerned about the Mercedes Benz dealership where we did have a letter from one of the managers of one of the departments and we had asked that we have something from the general manager that is in the packet now. So with those caveats and the caveat that we, the city, were not picking up all of the expenses we were picking up the security expenses, we felt that it was a reasonable request and therefore gave our endorsement of it. So that is my portion of it if there anything that I forgot council member? We are really sharing the security expenses as well because the synagogue is also going to be providing I think it's six armed security guards for that event as well and two at each of the entrances at either end of the street closure. So I think that's great. I think what we really wanted is to make sure that there was a security plan in place, and I appreciate that you went back and did that. For the insurance, I just wanted to confirm that that is going to be covered by the synagogue to pick up that additional assurance. And, yes, Council Member, the young-against real of Beverly Hills will be picking up that cost. Thank you. I just wanted to confirm that as well. There it was. I think that's it. Those weren't my only other questions. Thank you for reaching out to the other synagogues in Beverly Hills. I think it's great to hear that they're all able to participate. And I think it'll be a nice event. Thank you. OK, so with that, we'll go to questions and comp. No, we're not going to do that yet. We're going to first go to public comment and ask whether or not there is anybody in the chambers who would like to speak on the matter, not seeing any we'll go to the city. There are no public comments on this item. Thank you. So as I said before, we will now go to questions and comments by the council members. Anything additional? Council member Wells? Nope. Okay, council member Corrin. Thanks. I have no questions. I support the initiative. Council member Mary. I'm supportive and since the Santa Gogg is providing their own security, they're also providing the event they're doing it, I would be in favor of waving actually all of the fees. I, my turn? Yeah, I just wanted to, I'm, in other words, you're in favor of the entire $7,425. Yes. Is that what you're also saying? in favor of the entire $7,425. Yes. Is that what you're also saying? Yes. Okay, vice mayor. I too and I'm in support of this. The concerns that I would have would be reaching out and the outreach, which it looks like the Liaisons have already asked and Patty mentioned that it's already been addressed, safety of the participants as well as the surrounding communities of relevance and it looks like you've already addressed that when one with the barriers that are being placed and also with the security guards, you've gotten the full support according to the letter from the Mercedes-Benz dealership and other businesses. I think that the most important part of this is that you are inviting other community participants and synagogues to participate because really this is a time that we need unity more than anything. We need a time to be able to heal and move forward together as a community. And I think that that really is going to highlight the positive impact that this event will have for our community and I am in full support of waving all fees. Okay. And just to be clear, this is what we have here is what the city is providing. The synagogue is providing a more robust security plan than is listed here. Not going to go into a lot of detail on it, but it's something that's being coordinated with our police department. Police department will have final say on what is required and necessary, depending upon any intelligence that may or may not occur, but we have the full cooperation of young Israel and with that I am supportive of it too. Thank you. Thank you Rabbi for coming and being introduced to sync process. Okay, we will be going on now to item number 82 two, city council policy manual and Cindy Owens will be presenting on it. Good afternoon mayor and city council. I am Cindy Owens, your municipal affairs program manager and I'm in the city manager's office. I am returning due today for direction on a few things related to the City Council policy manual. First, I'd like to confirm what there was consensus on our February 6 study session meeting on the changes to the policy manual with you. Second, I would then be asking your direction referring the outstanding items from February 6 where we didn't have consensus to a city council ad hoc as well as any new items the council may wish to bring up today. And finally, I would like to remind everybody this has been a six year process. We started this process in May of 2018. And during that time council has approved various changes. There's other changes that have been made to the manual or sorry sorry, to the policy manual. And then some of those changes were reversed. So I've done my very best to ensure that what is before you today is representative all that direction we've received during this time. But ultimately, it is your council policy manual. So with that, I'm going to move forward. So for several years staff has been working at the direction of the Council to revise the City Council policy manual and in August of 2021 we received direction to divide the City Council policy and operations manual that is its official name from 2009, into two parts. We had a City Council handbook and a City Council policy manual. So we did that. And the idea behind the handbook is it's things that don't really involve the policy of the council. It involves things that are general direction, our City Council or charge, our budget numbers, our population, the number of registered voters. It's very general information that updates all the time and we don't want to have to return to council to have that formally adopted because we do want to be able to update that as information changes. So council was very on board with having that happen in February. So we've taken all those non-policy items and we've shifted them into this handbook that can be this ever-living document that can be frequently updated So we then at that meeting we can a page-by-page review of the City Council policy manual and we got through about 13 pages of it before we had to adjourn to close session Some things we had can sense us on and other things we did not. So what did we have consensus on and there's a full list of it in your report that the role of the mayor as the presiding officer. I believe that it was clearly stated by City Council that you want to decodify the current practice where that when the mayor is unavailable to be the spokesperson for the City Council it'd be the vice mayor and then it'd be the most senior council member next in line and so on and so on. The second change that we thought we heard consensus on is under the role of mayor as ceremonial representative. It says to execute proclamations in your policy manual. It's actually to present the proclamations. And so we would see that as something we had consensus on. And then who would present the proclamation if the mayor's unavailable and the vice mayor's unavailable and just to be consistent with the spokesperson? It would then fall to the most senior city council member. Under regular formal meetings meetings the council appeared to agree that if the formal meeting was still in session at 11 p.m. then a vote would occur to see if the council wanted to continue the meeting as is and keep hearing everything on the agenda or continue the outstanding items to future meeting. Under public comment at Council meetings, the Council had consensus on removing the word shall to may for a speaker to finish their name and address. And then finally, they wanted all references or those of you still on Council and new members. The recommendation of February 6 was to have all references that had a direct correlation to the Beverly Hills Municipal Code to have that code reference in the policy manual. So where do we need more direction? There was a lot of discussion on the topics you see here on this screen. We feel that there just needs to be a lot more vetting here. It'd be very nice to have this put to an ad hoc to further discuss the mayor and vice mayor selection rotation. How do we want to handle media relations? In 2009, social media wasn't really a part of what council did and it's something we do now. So what do we put into the council manual around that, especially given the recent Supreme Court ruling that happened around social media and council, participation in conferences and meetings requiring travel. It's a 2006 resolution that establishes who goes to what conferences and what has to come to council. Do we need to take another look at that? Do we want to codify when the mayorial installation and reorganization meeting occurs? And when should public comment items not on the agenda occur? There are a variety of ways that happens through other cities in LA County and throughout the state. So as the City Council is adjourned to study, or sorry, close session on February 6th, we still needed direction on the remaining pages. This is a document that's much bigger than 13 pages and we weren't able to get to items like the Commission Policy items. And we know that there's been an ad hoc working through those commission items with the City Clerk being involved in our Assistant City Manager being involved in that and we want to make sure that those make it into the policy manual City Council compensation there was a change in state law it was signed by the governor on city council Compensation your compensation right now is codified in the Beverly Hills municipal code at $793 a month. I believe new state law allows that to go up to roughly $909 or $50. Is that something you want the ad hoc to consider and bring back to you is what's in that new state law? Do we need more clarification of the section that's addressing legislation? It's actually very brief and yet we have a very robust legislative program here in the city. And then is there anything else that the council would like to memorialize as policy? So today I'm here to seek confirmation that we did have consensus on just those handful of items on February 6th for the policy manual. And then I'm looking for you to provide direction referring any outstanding items from February 6th to a the next item. I'm going to go to the next item. I'm going to go to the next item. I'm going to go to the next item. I'm going to go to the next item. I'm going to go to the next item. I'm going to go to the next item. I'm going to go to the next item. I'm going to go to the next item. I'm going to go to the next item. I'm going to go to the public. You make it sound so easy. Okay. We will go to public comment. If there's anybody in chambers who would like to address us on this item, please bring a speaker forward. Not seeing anyone here will go to our city clerk for any items that have been presented to her for Presentation. Thank you mayor. We do have some written comments if I may read them The first one is from Kathy Baker. Please be advised that I want to maintain our present rules at legislation and all formal actions May only occur during the evening formal city council meeting. Thank you. The next is from Ronald Richards. I am writing this short email to comment that That major or moderate legislation should not be passed in the study session Minor things related to planning or having something be put on the agenda for full council Consideration as in past study sessions is okay, but normal legislation should be in the formal session in my opinion. The next is from Benjamin Thompson. Please do not change the agenda so that council can pass laws in the afternoon. Next is from Daniel Hollander. I want to state my opposition to any change in the rules and practices regarding legislation. Legislations should only be allowed during the formal evening sessions of the City Council. The next is from Sarah Willen. Please record my adamant opposition to the City Council's undertaking any legislation at study sessions. Transparency is all the Council's convenience, nothing. The next is from Sheri McDermott. Please don't make changes to the City of Beverly Hills policy and operations manual that allow the City Council to make binding decisions behind closed doors. Democracy thrives in the light and dies in the dark. The next is from Arlene Sideris. BH residents want to maintain our present rule that legislation and all formal actions may only occur during the evening formal city council meeting. The next one is from Deborah Blum. I'm writing to say that I'd like to maintain the city's present rule that legislation and all formal actions may only occur during the evening formal city council meeting. The next is from Lee Pastrenick. We do not appreciate city staff's underhanded efforts to authorize the passing of legislation, resolutions and ordinances at study sessions, which efforts appear to be designed to limit residents' participation and knowledge of city actions. I write, quote, underhanded and quote because even when this rule change was suggested months ago, City staff concealed what they were attempting to orchestrate with their ambiguous language. That a study session shall be a regular meeting for all purposes and staff's insincere suggestions that although a change was being authorized, it would not likely be utilized. Then why make the change? I also used a word underhanded because of the staff's false representation that the change has already been made when the subject proposed change to the manual should have been red line. Clearly staff does not want residents to know about or understand the change and such staff members are not what we need in this city. There is no conceivable good honest reason to make such a change. However, if any of the council members think the change would be a good idea, then put it on the agenda and let residents know what is being proposed and why as if there could be a good reason for such a change. If a good fair change is being proposed, then it should not require residents to be misled. The next is from Sonya Berman. I recognize that I am just a long time resident. I recognize that I am also old enough to see the changes that have taken place in our city and on our council. Some for the better and others not so much. I also recognize that in spite of my years of service to the city, both as an employee and a volunteer commissioner, my opinion is of no merit or interest to any of you, or so it seems from my most recent experiences, any more than the opinion of any other residents. How disheartening, disappointing, and sad, since you were all elected by us, the residents, to represent us, the residents. So here we go again. The policy and operations manual specifies that important decisions are to be made at a formal meeting held in the evening, not at an afternoon study session. That policy was put into place to give the residents the opportunity to attend the meeting and voice their concerns since many cannot attend during the day. But it seems that this policy is no longer going to be an effect and important decisions can be made at the study session. Other than keeping the residents from being part of the government, keeping the residents from being a part of the governmental process, I fail to understand the reasoning behind this change and strongly oppose it. I fully understand and respect that you are ultimately the decision-makers, but it is our city and certainly we have the right to voice our opinion. The next is from Steve Mayer. Mr. Mayer wishes to emphasize that it has been a long-standing tradition in Beverly Hills for the mayor to be able to conduct the formal city council and study session meetings as he or she sees fit. Any changes to the policy manual should create less restriction, not more. He also states that in turn, City Council members have been provided substantial latitude in how they conduct their roles. Any changes should enhance their positions, not restrict them. The existing document in various forms has served the city well for close to two decades. Mr. Mayor says tweak it without question, but it should be returned as one document, not two. He suggests polling all previous council members and commissioners. He believes you will find that they believe that the existing Beverly Hills City Policy and Operations Manual is still relevant. Next comment comes from Edwin J. Vlesing, Mayhung, Vlesing, Liu, and Winston Vlesing. They were the exact same email, so it was a form letter, so we are reading them. This email is to formally state that we as city residents want to maintain our present rules, that legislation and all formal actions may only occur during the evening formal city council meeting giving more residents the opportunity to participate. The next one, again, there were two who wrote the same form letter, Robert Bird and Renee Strauss. I know that it has been the custom and practice in our city for legislation and other important decisions to be made only at the formal evening city council meetings and that the afternoon study session being held our two study and discuss issues. This practice ensures that residents have an opportunity to participate in important decisions and for the city to be transparent. I'm appalled to find out that the city is proposing a change to allow legislation and other important decisions to also be made at afternoon study sessions. I am totally opposed to this proposed change. It goes without saying that such a change will make such proposed matters and legislative changes less transparent. And evening meeting is more accessible for those residents that have jobs and work. Our opinions must our opinions matter and must be taken into account when the city is proposing legislative changes. Legislative changes always impact residents. I am opposed to this proposed change. The next comment is from Noga Sherman. This email is to formally state that we as residents want to maintain our present rule that legislation and all formal actions may only occur during the evening formal city council meeting giving more residents and Opportunity to participate the next is from Larry Miller I want to maintain our present rule that legislation and all formal actions may only occur during the evening formal city council meeting The new rule is actually quite outrageous and can only lead to even more cynicism about our local government. I have lived in Beverly Hills in 1985 and the lack of transparency the last few years is quite alarming. It is as if the council thinks they can get away with whatever they want. The next is from Thomas White. Please leave quote formal or binding actions upon any resolution ordinance or other action of the council and quote to formal evening meetings only. The study sessions serve as a valuable role and should not be converted into, quote, regular meetings and quote for such purposes. This is our longstanding and successful tradition which permits those in our community who work for a living to participate in the operation of their own government and not compete with the daytime priorities or obligations of the electorate. In their capacity as a meeting or hearing moderator, the mayor remains in the service of and accountable to the people of Beverly Hills and should exercise dignity, decorum, respect, courtesy, restraint and professionalism at all times, compliant with all applicable laws and regulations with no expansion of authority. If any person so interested should deviate from these limits exhibit bias tolerance, intolerance or behave inappropriately or excessively any council members should be free to immediately intervene to see correct such behavior without a presumption of intruding on the mayor's rights power or discretion. And I think there was one more. Let me just double check. So there was one from Darian Buzhou and she's provided it as and that hadn't been provided at your seats, your deas and she's provided her comment based on some attachment she's provided. And that concludes public comment. Thank you and our city manager has some comments. Yes, Mayor, Council comment. Thank you and our city manager has a comment. Yes mayor, council members, thank you. So I want to clarify a couple of things. I can tell you without question that staff is neither acting in an underhanded or insincere way. And as far as I'm aware, the city council is not trying to get away with whatever they want, so I want to start with that. The issue at hand has to do with a section of the policy manual in your packets on page 10. It is the, let's see, last sentence of this section that says, study session meetings. Study session meetings. So page 10, study session meetings section, the last sentence. And that's been in the manual the entire time. Has it not? No. So I will read you what the 2009 City Council, that City Council manual says at that section. It says at the study session, at the study session meetings, the council shall not take any formal or binding action upon any resolution, ordinance, or other action required by law to be taken by the council. Such action occurs at the formal meeting. This is different than what you see on page 10. So I will own the fact that it should have been redlined for you. That last sentence should have been redlined for the City Council because it is a change. So I accept responsibility for that. What I will say is that we have been working on the manual off and on for five or six years and we have gotten feedback at different times from different council members. We did do an initial red line comparison of the 2009 manual to what you have in your packet and I can tell you it was like red ink running off the page because we removed Everything related to the handbook and separated that from the policy manual so it was very messy So we attempted to capture all of the changes we had heard so far From the city Council members. We did not catch this mistake. I apologize. I see that it generated some concern from the community, which I appreciate. I do want to say that this was discussed. This change was discussed at a previous council meeting. And the reason for that, and Mr. Wiener can help with that, is because it has become the custom of the City Council to, on occasion, make decisions and give direction at study session. And so recognizing the fact that we had moved into reality where on occasion we will have Council take formal action at study session We were interested in looking at codifying that we we had codified it the council actually adopted an ordinance Which provided that at the study session the council could take a formal action so for example I Think was at the last meeting the council approved a pro an appropriation I think was at the last meeting, the council approved an appropriation I think for holiday lighting, something like that, which would be a formal action that should you go back to this and of course the council is free to do whatever it wants, should you go back to what was suggested, you couldn't do that in the afternoon, you have to do that in the evening. But the council actually adopted an ordinance. Did you have that ordinance? Yeah, the ordinance numbers 08-0-2544. So the council adopted this ordinance in 2008. The handbook was never updated to reflect what the council did by ordinance. This was a subject of some litigation two or three years ago. We prevailed in that litigation because the council had actually adopted an ordinance that allowed formal action to be taken at the study session. Again, not binding, excuse me, the ordinance is binding, but the council can make whatever decision it wants. If you want to take some action to go back to the way it was prior to 08, we can do that. No problem. So wait, so I do want to indicate that this language is different and it was in 2009. And perhaps it should have been read lined in the report and so I. Well, okay, so the way I'm understanding this is that we have an ordinance and the ordinance allows us to do it. We are compelled by ordinance to follow ordinances even though there are inconsistent policy manuals. Is that correct? That's correct and the introduction to the policy manual, I'm sorry I don't have this in front of me, but it basically says this is the policy manual, the'm sorry I don't have this in front of me, but it basically says this the policy manual, the ordinances will do control. Again, the council is free to make whatever policy decision it chooses to make at this point and you can go back to what it was before 2008 when the ordinance was adopted. That's not a problem. So let's go back to the underhandedness of this. This was a simple error because the ordinance is what is controlling. Yes, the manual did or the it was not redlined as which our city manager has acknowledged should have occurred. But what is stated here is really consistent with what the ordinance is. Now again, you've said we could change it. From my perspective, things like giving direction on something that is fiscal and is something that can be done in the study session. If we start loading up our formal meetings, we're going to be back at not having really late meetings and not having enough to do in the study session. I think it's very clear that, and I can't imagine that, and time I've been on council, that we've handled anything legislatively during the study session. My recollection is that one time you actually adopted an ordinance during the study session, and I think on that, and I don't remember this years ago, I don't think you had an evening meeting that day. So the ordinance was adopted at the study session. It was, of course, the hearing and the introduction was done in the evening, but it was actually adopted at a study session. But in any... That may have been before your time. Okay, but it is, you know know I guess everything is open again and it's certainly a discussion item that we can all have regarding this and now we have something from my city. And if anybody likes statistics back at the end of 2021 I took a look at 2019 2020 and 2021 study session, and out of 303 items that went to the city council in that three year period, 42 of them could have been considered actions that would have been happening under formal meeting. Whether it was a resolution or appropriation or approval of a purchase order, representing 13.9% of the business that happens in study session. Those numbers haven't been updated because each year represents about one full work day of going through all of those items and determining whether it was a formal action or whether it was not. So if that helps people who like statistics, that would be the statistics. Okay, and again, it seems to me that, and again, we're going to all discuss this it seems to me that, and again, we're going to all discuss this, that the language that is in the manual, proposed to be in the manual, is consistent with what the ordinance is. So we're going to have to change the ordinance if there's a change in the policy manual. OK, yes. My apologies. It does appear there was one caller on the phone that I didn't know that she wanted to speak. So if I may ask her, is it okay to allow her to speak? Sure, it's not somebody who's already presented. She provided her a cashmance, but she said that was not public comment. It was just information for the council. So it's Ms. Darian Vigio. Okay. Miss Vigio, you have up to three minutes. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. Thank you. I'm sorry to say that Larry Reiner is not being very honest about what happened with respect to the ordinance. In 2008, was placed on the consent calendar that they were going to change the times of council meetings. And so that's what people thought it was. And it was on the consent calendar. But then if you looked at the agenda report that he wrote, he was making the change that he was deleting the prohibition against legislation at study sessions. And he was adding the session that the study session could be a regular session, still a regular meeting for all purposes. This was surreptitious. This was a violation of the Brown Act. It was not caught by anyone, so it could not be litigated. The same thing was repeated when the matter came up one week later because it has to come up twice when there's an ordinance. And nobody knew about the change he was making. But now he sits there today acting like the council, process ordinance making the change when it was a very deceptive move that he made. And nobody even would have known that his statement, this a steady session should be a regular meeting for all purposes. Nobody would have even realized that that meant that you could pass legislation at a study session. So this was not really considered openly by the council. It should be changed and revised to match within the council. What's in the present city council policy and operations manual. And, you know, I'm just very upset that things cannot be handled honestly by Council and staff. And I see that somebody has taken responsibility for the misrepresentation on page 10 as if the change had been made. But with all of these, I just don't know about the sincerity of it all, and it seems to me that we need a house cleaning. And in any event, we definitely need the ordinance that Mr. Wiener had surreptitiously passed that was never brought before the people or the council. We need that change back to what it says in the long standing 2009 manual. And by the way, that 2009 manual, that was adopted with that language, a year after he made the change in the ordinance. And so there was a conflict there. And when we were in court on it, the very post-city judge felt that the ordinance trumps the rule, even though the rule was reinstated again after that. So the council was not being properly advised and pleased to do the right thing. I don't think that any of you on the council would want to be known for a council that wanted to change the rule. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm not sure where to go. Larry, perhaps you could respond to. I think that the recommendation from staff was to send this to in ad hoc committee for discussing all of these issues. I think that Ms. Huncafi and I were just trying to correct some of the statements in the record. But that was the recommendation. It's up to the Council if the Council would like to adopt that recommendation or give some direction now. So. So, now see, other than this issue, how do we want to handle the going through the 13 pages in terms of things that we can dispose of and move forward on? And if there's, we can have a discussion on this, obviously, also, but maybe we should get the easy stuff out of the way. So I think the easy stuff is. So number one there is, did we have consensus? Did we accurately capture what Council wants to have happen on, so I'm on the second page and we have those five points listed out there. So roll of the mayor, presiding officer, ceremonial representative. I guess the first question is does this council concur with these five recommendations that were made in February so that's the first question. Okay so if we can get that slide up which is the one that says policy manual items concurred on. Right. Okay, so those are the five points that we're talking about. Let's start there. Okay, let's do that. And we're going to close public comment. We'll go to, why don't we go to discussion first on the five items see if we can go through discussion questions and discussion and then we'll go to direction after. these items, I can't give consensus, agree that there was consensus on that meeting. I was in that meeting, but I can agree to these five items. I do think that, and I know this is kind of jumping ahead a little bit, but like we do the budget and we have study sessions around the budget, we have multiple study sessions quite frankly, and we may even have an ad hoc before that the budget sessions. And then we approve it in the regular meeting. But we've had all the other meetings that have been noticed beforehand. I think this is the type of document that would follow that same process. So even though agreeing on this, we may incorporate it in now. But I would as well have that final approval of this updated handbook or policy manual. After we have a steady set, like we'd go to ad hoc, then we can have steady session, and then I would put it on an agenda for approval. That would be my recommendation. Like we do the budgets. Yes, and that would be our approach. I get so apologize. I wasn't clear earlier. We felt like we have, we wanted to check in on the five items. Is this, are they something that the council is interested in improving? And if the council is interested in having an ad hoc work on this, they would go through and, you know, clean up language probably throughout the document, including the first 13, but substantively do you agree with the five that are here? It would definitely come back to council before it's the final version is adopted. Right. Does that answer your concerns? You're okay with this, but still want to see it again definitely come back to council before it's the final version is adopted. Right. Does that answer your concerns? You're okay with this but still want to see it again in the central. Yes, I think I'm okay with it. I think we, it's the rest you go to an ad hoc and then we have a study session where all of these things are kind of with those recommendations are based off that in discussion. And then once that's finalized, take it to the formal session to have that like we do the budget presented in manner. Okay, very good council member corpsman. Thank you. So with respect to the concepts on our second on these five concepts that staff have listed, I concur with the concepts. I will say that going through the policy manual, the text, I had some proposed revisions of language to make it clearer. And I think that's something that could be handled at an ad hoc committee. Get the details down. So I wouldn't say we should just vote on these five things today, but I would say I concur with these five things, and let's get the language done at an ad hoc, and then also discuss, subsequently some of the other things in the policy manual at the ad hoc, bring it back, and then we can have a final determination of the actual language of the policy manual. Okay, so what I'm understanding, I think from both of you is that the high level is okay, the nuts and bolts still should be different. Yeah, these five, yes. Cut, remember Miers. Yes, but in the meantime, shouldn't we apply them? Like for example, tonight, if the meeting goes to 11, shouldn't we vote? I mean, from my perspective, the mayor is the presiding officer. The mayor is the Sarah O'Moaning a representative. I would be in favor of until we change the language we should abide by these policies I would think for the top five. So I would say that the mayor is the presiding officer and I think he can impose this, when you type of the regular formal meetings at the 11 o'clock hour, do you want to discuss it? I think he can unilaterally impose that. Well, he isn't a officer. If we don't sort of accept these policies, he's not necessarily the presiding officer. I think that's what I'm saying. I think we should accept all of these points. And then we can hammer out the specifics if we want. Even under the current policy manual,s is the presiding officer. I think it just differs back to the current policy manual that was our last approved. But the council also did at some point vote. I believe we did vote that the on the 11 o'clock. That's my intention to check with everybody. But that is also existing policy correct? Yeah, the council the mayor is the president officer even under state law. And yes, that is the existing policy at 11 o'clock. So effectively, where these policies will be in place, we'll just be looking at hammering out specific language. And I'm okay with that. I concur with all five of the items that are listed. I do think that there needs to be uniformity of all of our manuals, and that's the problem that we keep seeing over and over again. We do have ad hocs in place already, and I think that there are three main documents that we keep looking at that keep coming up. And that's the policy manual, the handbook, and the municipal code. So I think it's extremely important for staff to assist us with that, to find where the inconsistencies are on those three documents so that we're able to create uniformity so that they're all on the same page. As far as presiding officer, I think we've all been very uniform with following these five suggested items. I don't think that this even, I mean perhaps we need to clean up some of the language, but I think that we're all in agreement or at least we have been unless our two new council members don't agree with this. But I think that we have all been in agreement and that's the way council has been run thus far. At the end of the day we sit up here to serve the community and to listen to the community and I think that's extremely important. I'm in complete favor of having ad hoc's. I think that we're going to need two ad hoc's as opposed to just one. I would suggest that there be one for the election portion of what's being presented in this agenda item. And perhaps our two council members who are not going to be involved in the next or even potentially involved in the next election be involved in that preliminary ad hoc. But I do think that we need a second ad hoc preferably of people who have served on the council for more than just a few months to be able to go through some of these red lines and give feedback. And then I agree with obviously, as we have in the past bringing it to our colleagues on the council. The other thing that I would recommend is prior to those ad hawk meetings perhaps I don't know what the correct policy or format is to do this but to get feedback from all of the council members as to areas that they would like to see some change. That way it would expedite the process. So for example, if somebody thinks that we should serve for seven years and they want us to look at that, they say I would like you to look at point A, item B that council members and that's just obviously not a real example. I'm using it on purpose to highlight the point. And then that way whoever's on the ad hoc can look at that and kind of try to have a discussion about it so that once it is brought to council, it could be a little more expedited. That would be more efficient. Exactly. But that would also violate the Brown Act. That would be more efficient. Exactly. But that would also violate the Brown Act. But you can agenda this at a future meeting and let all the council members say, here are a couple of topics that I want the ad hoc committee to examine such as a seven-year term or whatever, you know whatever. But I'm just saying at a higher glance, not the details of it and allow the ad hoc to work on the details, but this way we don't completely miss somebody's point. If somebody has an item in the policy manual that they would like for us or whoever, whoever's on the ad hoc to look at, then we're able to give some feedback initially and give direction. And make a suggestion. When we did this on the school board, when my time on the school board, it's similarly we were the last policy and documents were really from 2009, so we brought them all up to make them current. And in this very same process we did it the same way that I was just recommending. I felt like it worked really well from a streamlining standpoint. From a brown act, one thing that we did is we would have any council members could send those things to the city manager. And then the city manager could provide those things to the City Manager and then the City Manager could provide that information without the name so it's not a brown act. Is that not work? I don't believe that works under. Okay, so we can take this big one question. Yes. Thanks. So we've agenda us for discussion today. No? Yes, absolutely. So, so we have us absolutely, absolutely, something in the policy menu today, we can raise them in the ad hoc committee, whoever that may be, we'll know those are issues needed to look at. Absolutely. Okay. And also, I mean, Nancy Hunt coffee did an amazing job with the October 7th Memorial that we're working on and coming back after those ad hoc needs and doing check-ins with Council, which gets back to what Larry was trying to talk about as well as we can do that at a public meeting and kind of have those check-ins as we move through the manual so it's not all presented at one time to Council and also make sure we're still on the right track. So I guess my turn, right? You're done. So I guess my turn, right? You're done. Yes, and I would say if we are going to give feedback that the mayor suggests who he would like to see on the ad hoc before we go through that because I don't know if we're all prepared to, perhaps give some of all of that suggestion. Okay, so the comment I want to make and then we'll go to the direction portion of it. The comment I want to make on this is that in terms of policy up till now, one thing I'm very proud of with all of our council members here and my past colleagues is that when we're up here, I think we're very collegial in terms of running a meeting. I think that there is no problems whatsoever. We do have differences in opinions. We all express those opinions, but they're on policy issues in terms of running a meeting. I think everybody has been very cordial and we all want to get the business of the city done. We want to do it efficiently. We want to be able to hear what everybody has to say, but we also need to get the work done. So I think that continuing what has been the policy up till now in terms of conducting a meeting, I don't think there's anybody here who has a problem as far as that's concerned. In terms of updating, I do agree with Vice Mayor Nazarian that it's probably going to need to be two different ad hawks. That in itself creates an issue because we're gonna have to segregate it. Or else we're gonna create a Brown Act problem. I think we can do that, but I will need to work with the city attorney and the city manager to make sure that whatever could be considered under one ad hoc charge is not dealt with in the other ad hoc charts, but I think we can do that and I think we can work that out. Those are my general and I'm okay with the general concepts that are listed of the five items here and whether or not some words need to be changed here or there, we'll see. Like the word, updated, update wording from execute proclamation to present. Well, I think we all execute the proclamations, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, and that's what, and in my terminology, execute means not killing it, but everybody signing it. And I think that's the correct interpretation. Yes. Okay. Yes. So, you know, however we work, those kind of details out will work them out. Okay, so now I'm going to go back to our city manager. How do we want to go forward as to these vital items? Should we go around and see if there are comments that people want the eventual ad hoc to consider? So I think what I heard from the council members and and it's more of a question than a statement, is that there was concurrence around these general concepts. There may be some final tweaking to the language when it comes back, but in general, this is the direction that all five wanted to go. So I think that's what I heard. So then I think the next question is there is a list in the report of items to refer to ad hoc. So, Mayor Vice Mayor selection and rotation, media relations, social media policy, et cetera, et cetera. You can, you know, I don't know why I'm reading to you. So these are suggestions would be, these are kind of the topics after page 13 of the policy manual. We haven't gotten to these. These would be our recommendation of areas where maybe they came up at the, they can I apologize. These are in the first 13 pages of the policy manual. They came up at the February meeting. There was not consensus around them. I apologize. I said that incorrectly. So we would recommend that these items go to the ad hoc for further discussion and sort of recommendations. So that would be the next thing. Is there anything on here that you don't want the ad hoc to discuss? I guess maybe that's a better way to do it. And then are there additional things that the Council would like the ad hoc to discuss that we haven't covered in the report. So hopefully that made sense. Okay, so let me just go back a step because I previously stated we were going to have discussion and we'll go back to direction on the first five. At this point in time, are we in? We have a consensus that we want the first five high level are OK. And we can move on. Or does anybody else want to discuss that any further? So now we can go on to the next part. So now the next issue is going to be the items on pages. So it starts at the bottom of page two of your report and goes into page three of your report. Those were the items on February 6th were generated quite a bit of discussion, but we didn't have consensus on them. So it starts with the first bullet point on page two at the bottom, where it says items to river to hot, ad hoc, there was a large discussion around mayor, vice mayor selection, rotation. It definitely did not receive consensus around what that might look like. Media relations, there was discussion about, well, what if a council member wants to talk to the media, but they don't concur with the opinion of the city. Like, what would that look like? What would they need as far as disclaimers to say to the media? Social media policy. The four members that were president of February 6th had a lot of input and a lot of comment but wanted to wait for council member bossy to come back and then we now just have this March ruling from the Supreme Court that does affect what we had discussed in February so this is really taken a big turn and so we'd be looking at taking all of that to the ad hoc participation in conferences and meetings requiring travel. There was some discussion about domestic travel and what conferences and who could attend and what that would look like and for what organizations. So we would want to take a deeper dive into that organization of the formal council member, or formal city council meeting. There were a lot of ideas on currently the order that everything is in, and then what those items should say. An example of that was like, it said city council member, I think it says committee reports, but people want that to say comments and committee reports, but there was never like any firm delineation of what that should be for us. Agendizing topics for discussion. How do things get on study session? How do things get on formal session? Who gives that permission? And then there was some discussion, but no final direction on codifying when the city's mayoral installation and reorganization happens. We had a major change in how elections occurred in the city because of state law. We were in March of odd number of years. State law came down and said, the state's . We had a major change in how elections occurred in the city because of state law. We were in March of odd number of years. State law came down and said because you don't have a higher high enough voter turnout, you need to align with the state selections that occur in March of even number of years. Which worked out great until the census happened in 2020 and COVID happened. And when that happened they didn't get the census finish enough time to do all the redistricting and so state law got passed that said we're gonna be in March in presidential years and we're gonna be in June in non-presidential years. So how do we want that reorganization to look like because of the difference in our elections that happened like that. So that was a lot of discussion around that as well. And do we want to actually codify that we're in April with that. And then there was discussion by City Council to limit comments and I am not on the agenda at the beginning of the meeting maybe to occur for a set period of time, West Hollywood does that. And then they take the rest at the end of the meeting. There's other cities that take all of it at the end of the meeting. There's some that take it in the middle of the meeting. So there's quite a bit out there that we could look at as far as public comment on items not on the agenda, and I'm sure that we have a lot of opinions on that from the public as well. And so those were kind of the big things that there just wasn't clear consensus 3-1-4-0 that this was the way we wanted to head. So those are the items that we talked about on February 6th that we would request more direction from council from preferably to put it to an ad hoc for a lengthy discussion on those items. Okay so we're looking at the items that are under items to refer to ad hoc. There are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight bullets. Is that what we're talking about? Or are we also talking about the last four bullets on that page too? Just those eight, the last four bullets are just examples of things that we did not get to on February 6th for any sort of direction from council. And so just examples of more work that needs to be done beyond page 13 in that manual. There's still some heavy lifting that needs to be done. Okay, so let's go to again at this point it's high level. We're not going into all the details in terms of do we want to refer that to the ad hoc? That'll be the question of our council members starting with council member Wells. Yes I think it's appropriate and having just joined the council I think it would be great to look at all of these different things that are on here as well. So in terms of adding agenda items, I'd just say yes I'd like to look at the setting it to an ad hoc and bring it back to council. Okay council member Corman. I think the ad hoc should look at everything and to the extent I'm looking at these bullet points there's nothing here right now that I'm looking at these bullet points, there's nothing here right now that I would feel comfortable saying, here's where I think we got a land. So I would have the ad hoc look at these certainly, but I haven't looked at everything else we haven't discussed. Council Member, Mayor's please. So I do wanna say that I agree with you, Mayor, that there are sometimes things that we have to do at a study session. And otherwise we're going to have meetings in the evening that will go on forever. And I do think it's up to the mayor in a way to prioritize the important issues so that they can be done in the evening, and that's fine. But there may be decisions that we make that aren't perhaps as wady that we can and should do during the afternoon just so that we can, unless we want to have more meetings a month. So I know that's an issue that was discussed and it was something that but I do feel there needs to be that flexibility whereas I'm very supportive of having all the important decisions being done in the evening. That's one thing. The other thing I wanted to say is that when we talk about elections and when they are and how they change, I just want to make it clear and this maybe goes beyond the scope that should the city at some point decide to become a charter city, we would have the freedom and I'll ask Larry to Confirm this to have elections whenever we wanted in odd years every March every April whenever we wanted because as a charter city That's one of the powers that they still have I believe that's I believe that's correct, right? So that's just something to think about there are other Maybe again there are other reasons maybe to talk about being a charter city among them are pending cases, local control, in theory planning and that sort of thing. And also the ability to impose or to pass certain kinds of fees or taxes, including utilities and or documentary transfer taxes, which are similar to EMS fees. So that perhaps should be part of a discussion, maybe a recommendation as to whether our city should consider we'd have to have an election. There are other cities that have recently done so. I think Larry, in LA County, you could probably get a list of cities that have become charter cities. And having a new charter does not mean that we need to have a long document. In theory it could be the rules that we have now are a charter. So I think that could be something to discuss other than that. I said I'm happy for an ad hoc to look at that. My feeling is, as said, that when it comes to study session versus evening sessions, there's two things. Study in general have been to loosely discuss issues, not spend a lot of staff time. Also in the past, the practice has been that any council member can request something to be agendized on a study session and staff would not spend a lot of time, but that would allow us to have loose discussions to see if there's an interest in among the entire council upon that to take it further. I think that's a very good thing that the study session can and should be for that, not wasting a lot of staff time, but to have ideas. And then of course, the evening session is more formal, the mayor sets that and that sort of thing. Those are just my comments from all of the years of having done this. And as said, I think there are perhaps tweaks that can and should be made, you know, or clarifications. But for me, certain things like media relations, social media, that's kind of, we've had a certain minicollega practice of tradition and that seems to have worked well and maybe we just codify it. Thank you. Okay. Vice mayor. What are you looking to hear from this. I think that there is one area that we did discuss with regard to getting our packets on Thursday. I think the latest was Thursday evening as opposed to Thursday morning, which is what it says here. It was just kind of moving it back one day. That is one thing that I noticed on this. Other than that, I think that the best way to go is absolutely to have the ad hawks. And I would recommend two different ad hawks to look at these. Okay, and that's it. Okay, and I agree that those items should go there. I think not only that, let's go on to the next step, which is the other four bullet points that were never gotten to. I think those should also be discussed by the ad hoc. Do I have concurrence by everybody of those other digital four items? Of course. Absolutely. You okay, John? And these four items are just random examples pulled out of the policy manual. They- But as said, I just want to note, and I mentioned it about placing items on the study session. There already is a policy, and this isn't a tabular rassa there is, and as said up to now the policy has been, any council member can place something on the study session. Of course, the mayor juggles if they're a space and that sort of thing. And then the mayor did the, I think it just needs to be made clear that that is a practice that has taken place. If there are going to be changes to it, that's fine. But it's important for us to clarify if there are any questions what the practice has been up to now. And, you know, those of us who have been here a little longer, to clarify if there are any questions what the practice has been up to now. And those of us who have been here a little longer, you know, have that institutional history. Okay. So, are we clear? We move forward. So, we're clear that the rest of the manual would also be referred to the ad hoc. And so I think now the very last bullet point on this slide is any other items the City Council would like to memorialize this policy and so this is where Councilmember Korman had mentioned earlier kind of that wide open discussion could happen so I think it's not in the manual but you guys think would be great for the outhawk to work on for policy. This is actually that time to bring that up if you want to. Okay so that is this is the free for all period. This would be that opportunity. So it is we'll go through the each council member if there are things that have not that are not in the policy manual either directly or indirectly in the manual that you believe should be presented to the ad hoc for discussion. We will start with council member Wells. I don't have anything additional at this point. I think that perhaps while you go through the process and the ad hoc goes through the process, are we again have it at the city session? It may generate that and we may see at that time but for a starting place I feel very comfortable here. Okay, Council Member Corbyn. Thank you. So obviously one of the things that came up earlier, I just want to comment on it. The whole question of the lack of redlining on the study session meetings in our packet. I just wanted to be sure that everyone knows there was no duplicity involved. And one of the proofs is, you know, things just, this is a complicated thing. There's a lot of moving parts. So for example, if you look at our, at our, at the staff memo, it talks about how public comment at council meeting staff recommended the word shall be changed to May, well on the red line version it was changed to should. So you know, things happen and it's an invert and everyone has to understand that. This is just a lot of stuff in this manual. The other thing I would say is with respect to the specific, the discrepancy between the municipal code, as was amended in 2008 for a study session authorization and the continuation of the old policy manual language which suggests otherwise, I don't think they have necessarily conformed. And this is something I would like the ad hoc to look at. I think the municipal code can authorize or empower us to make decisions by saying it's a formal meeting for all purposes. That doesn't mean that the policy manual can't limit that from a policy standpoint so that if we do take action, the municipal code empowers the council to make certain actions, but we may not want to have unlimited discretion to whatever we want at the study session. I think we've heard a lot of people today say they're uncomfortable with that. I think a lot of people on the council have already said, well, we don't do legislative stuff at the study session. So I think that the ad hoc should look at the concept of certain things we can do at the study session that would be part of a formal meeting, certain things we don't do as a matter of policy. And if we look at it at the formal meeting, if something is discussed at the... I think we should do something more. Anything else, Council Member? I would... One of the things that they're definitely going to look at is the social media rules. I just want to point out that the way it was written in our packet, I mean, I know this sounds kind of odd, but if you look at and parse it through, what actually says, city elected officials should be framed from communicating with constituents on their personal social media accounts, that is not realistic. We all communicate with constituents through social media accounts. So clearly this language needs to be very carefully parsed out. So I know that they're going to do that, but I just wanted to point that out. And the last thing I would just mention that's important to me is something that Council Member Mirace just raised and that is the concept of how do things get placed on the study session agenda. We have an historical process. I think it's worked well. The ad hoc committee can look at it, but from my perspective, I think that's something that I would be wary of changing at this point. Thank you. Councillor Romero. So I obviously agree with that last point. I also do agree we can and should look at what we can do, but I do think we have to have latitude to do lower level things. Sometimes we'll actually agree on something at a study session and it gets placed at the formal agenda often as a consent calendar item. And I think that's fine. I think that's a way of doing things. Again, the principle that the study session is for exploring ideas, for starting, and that sort of thing, I think that stays, and as much as we can do in the evening, on the other hand, maybe if let's see, I think we're efficient, and I think, you know, the mayors in general into varying degrees have run efficient meetings, we may want to look into under certain circumstances if there's a lot going on, adding a meeting now and then. We haven't done that to avoid having to make decisions that too in the morning. Thank goodness, as said, we haven't. But if that's something because we get a ton of appeals or whatever, something that is out of our circumstances when it comes to planning, we may want to look at the, you know, there is a procedure you have to have a certain amount of days, but maybe we want to look at doing something along those lines. But yeah, I think for the most part, there are certain things that need updating social media as one of the media and that sort of thing. But beyond that, I think we do have a tradition. It tends to work well and we're just sort of cleaning things up now. Thank you. Vice Mayor, pick up your point. Yes, thank you very much. I think that it's important to be able to have some latitude as far as being able to place things on the agenda. A lot of times issues come up. Sometimes for the most part, our council tends to see eye to eye, but it's important to be able to have that space and that latitude to have a discussion. And if there is time to be able to place items on the agenda, I do think that there are oftentimes things that are in study session that we talk about and then it's placed on the consent item agenda for the formal session and that does give space for people to be able to write in, call in both at the study session. Nowadays it's different. Before when some of these laws were put into place. We didn't really have Zoom. We didn't have the option for did we have an option for people to call in? I think we took the first three phone calls of the evening. So there was an option, but I believe it's limited to three, wasn't it? No. Not during my time at all, but I know the option for telephone call-ins was there. Yeah, so I agree. We want to be able to hear from our community. We want to give every outlet possible. I do think that I just want to highlight that we do have options available that people could always send an email in. They can write in. They can call in. They can zoom in. So we do want to make many options available. And placing something on a consent agenda still allows the public to be able to participate and comment on it and Council has the option of pulling the item if they do see that there is a lot of interest in discussing it again more publicly at a later time. So I think that looking, we've come to look at the manual several times and it's very detailed and it's a very cumbersome and it's not easy to be done during council hours. So perhaps we can try with the ad hocs. And if we see that we still need more time as a council, I am in agreement with possibly agendizing another meeting outside of our general meetings to have just a discussion about the manual. But I do think that it's important to be able to have uniformity between our three, whether it's the policy manual handbook, municipal code, and also as it relates to our commission handbook, because a lot of the issues that are coming up for us are different and there needs to be, those documents all need to have some uniformity in them. And I think that most of the items that we've wanted to discuss we've brought up up to page 13. So hopefully we'll be able to address any other red lines. It's very detailed as far as parking and where we can park and where we can't park and which if a car is registered under our name, what if a council member doesn't has a car but it's registered under their spouse's name does that constitute is the same thing. So I think there are a lot of little details involved in our policy manual that you know everybody's sitting here they want to be able to serve the community at the best of their ability and obviously not abuse the system, but we want to be able to allow some latitude so that our council members are able to participate in the best of their ability. Thank you. Okay, thank you. And, you know, in essence, I think we're all in the same place. You know, the manual is a guide. I know that the manual says that indicates that before any council member may speak, they're supposed to get permission from the presiding officer. That doesn't work. I mean, I know that's what it says. We kind of look the other way on it, but I think everybody is very respectful of one another. We stop talking when somebody else is talking, don't interrupt them, et cetera. If it were to become an issue, then it's in the manual. But I think that's, that's a backstop as opposed to something that I would want to enforce on a daily basis. And that's just an example of some of the things that are in the manual that are guidelines for us. But if we're conducting the business and it's flowing, I think that we have that inertia to go forward. Things that I think are important in general are the flow of the meeting. Since I've been sitting in this seat, I don't think I've limited public comment to less than three minutes, but maybe one time. But that's not because I don't want to hear what's going on. It's because we have to have some efficiency here. We have certain business that we need to take care of. We have people in our audience who are here on a specific item. They've reserved that time because it's on the agenda. And to have general public comment on non-agenda items take let's say an hour and a half and then we're coming up against the 11 o'clock time it's not fair to those who have had the time set aside for their issue and that's not that I don't want to hear what other people have to say and it is certainly my intention to hear all public comment But perhaps at the end of the meeting if there is too much public comment and there is a full agenda So you know, that's me. I don't know where it's gonna go with the with the ad hoc But I do think it's important that we have to have an efficient meeting. These are business meetings. There's a lot of time that staff puts into having a meeting. I mean, we come up here and the hours that it takes to create the volumes that we have to read is just all staff time. Then for us just to kick that over to another meeting, I don't think it's fair to staff. It's a waste of staff's time, because then they've got to do it all over again. Plus, it's a waste of our time, because we've spent our Saturday and Sunday reading everything. So we want to get through it also. It's fresh on our mind at that point in time. But anyway, those are things I think that, now that the newest members of our council have been sitting as council members realize what we're talking about in terms of efficiency of meetings. Both Craig and Mary have had experience in their other venues dealing with it. So I'm sure it's something that we all look forward to in terms of being an efficient meeting. Anyway, I just want to give a little bit of thought to the division of what we're going to send to, and I do believe it should be two ad hoc's. We haven't talked about the election issues. Do you want to say anything on that city manager? I think that, so when I'm hearing, just to make sure we're on the same page, is that we'd like to have two ad hoc's work on revising the policy manual. We had talked about election related issues going to the election ad hoc. So it seems like the changes to the election schedule and those kinds of things that were mandated by state law. Probably fall mostly under the mayor vice mayor selection and rotation section. So those could, those items in general could be discussed by the election ad hoc. And then if we would like to have a sort of a policy manual ad hoc to consider the other things such as media relations, social media, you know, that sort of thing, I think we could logically separate those enough that we don't end up overlapping too much. Okay, so conceptually is that okay with all of my colleagues that is have election related items or even tangentially related to election go to one ad hoc and then all the other items go to the other ad hoc? Is that Mary? Craig, John? Okay, so we're all in agreement on that. So we'll have the presentation and then we'll make the, I'll then make the selection of the ad hoc at that time. Separation is what I meant to say. I think that wraps up everything. Thank you. That's it. That's it. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay, so it looks like we are going to be able to go into close session at this point in time if we could have a roll call for our closed session. We'll call for closed session. Council member Wells, here. Council member Corridor. Council member Mirish. Vice Mayor Nazarian here. Mayor Friedman. Here. And we do not have public comment for closed session. Okay, so with that we will adjourn to those matters on our closed session agenda and we'll be back here around 7 o'clock for the continuation of our formal session. Thank you everyone. On a mission landed on an asteroid, collected tiny grains of material and brought them back to earth. The Japanese repeated this remarkable achievement a second time, a decade later. NASA's Osiris Rex mission has also collected samples from an asteroid, which are now on their way home, scheduled to arrive in 2023. The technology advances from JPL's deep space-1 mission were put to use on the laboratory's Dawn mission. Using ion propulsion, Dawn was able to orbit two worlds in our solar system for the very first time. Festa and Syries, the largest objects in the asteroid belt. Recently launched his NASA's Lucy mission that is to visit asteroids that share the orbit of Jupiter. And psyche, a spacecraft managed by JPL, will soon be on its way to an asteroid made not of rock or ice, but metal. Flying a spacecraft propelled by a solar sail finally succeeded in 2019 with the planetary society's tiny light sail to spacecraft. This publicly funded mission stayed in Earth orbit for three years before re-entering the atmosphere. A more recent NASA solar-sail mission failed to deploy. All of these missions are about learning more about asteroids and comets, so that we might better defend against them. One element of planetary defense is called mitigation. What might be done should a near-Earth object threaten our planet. There are lots of mitigation ideas, putting a solar sail on the asteroid, throwing rocks off the surface. There's gravity tractors. Just using the gravitational attraction between the asteroid and the spacecraft and thrusting on the spacecraft, you could move the asteroid off its Earth-impact course if you had enough time. There's the impactor which would be my favorite because it's so simple and dark mission and the deep impact mission demonstrated the fact that we can run into these targets if need be. In a worst case scenario if you had a large object and little time, you could use a nuclear explosion. Much like the Armageddon movie in 98, we have to bring back Bruce Willis. But the three most important things for mitigating a potential earth impact are to find them early, find them early, and find Merle before they find us. And a recent example of that need occurred in 2013. It was a year when it was known that an asteroid named 2012 DA-14 would be passing extremely close to Earth. A very close approach, and it was going to come within the ring of geosynchronous satellites. So that's really close. It's almost very close in the sense that you want to see whether it's going to hit any satellites. But we knew that it would not hit, and we had been tracking this for about a year and predicting this close approach. So it was an event. And we had a NASA TV show hosted here at JPL, in which we were planning to talk all about the close approach. There's nothing to worry about. Gonna come really close. And these things are rare, but we know that it's not gonna hit. Now DA14 is not a threat. It will not hit the earth. Signed to say the closest it will get. Well, the night before that, what should happen? But on YouTube, all these reports of a massive fireball in Russia, in the city of Chelyabinsk. A lot of the videos were from dash cams. And they showed a really massive fireball coming in that was clearly much brighter than the sun. So that's a major event. It became evident that our little story of an asteroid coming really close to the satellites was being totally preempted. Well right now I am joined by Paul Chotis and Paul we probably have to address right off the top this meteor that hit Russia overnight. What an exciting day we have. We feel like it's like a shooting gallery here. We have two rare events of near-ath objects approaching the Earth on the same day. What can you tell us about this? Anything at this point? First of all, the two events are unrelated. The meteor over Siberia and over Russia was not related to the asteroid 2012 DA, and they're not in the same trajectory, the same orbit. It's simply a coincidence that they happen to hit and come near the earth the same day. How big was this meteor? The meteor we think was around 15 meters in size, which is about one third the size of DA14 itself. Okay, so much smaller. Much smaller, and you can see what sort of destruction and shockwave that a smaller asteroid can produce. It's like mother nature is showing us what a small one, a tiny one really can do. The energy released is estimated to have been equal to a TNT blast of 500 kilotimes. Many times larger than that of the atomic bombs used in World War II. The shockwave blew out windows, damaged buildings, and caused upwards to 1,500 injuries, including reports of skin burns and temporary blindness. A question raised was, why wasn't this asteroid detected? The answer was that it had approached the Earth from the direction of the Sun. Looking towards the Sun is a blind spot, not only for our eyes, but for telescopes too. To have had an advanced warning of the Chelyabinks meteor would have required spotting it in a darker part of the sky. The last time an event like Chelyabinks occurred was more than a century ago. But the fact that such a small object believed to have been no larger than 50 feet in size can cause such damage is yet another warning issued by Mother Nature. For there are likely millions more near Earth objects of this same size yet to be found. So how should the world prepare for the possibility of a major impact by a near-Earth object? In the United States, various government agencies annually take part in tabletop exercises in which they must react to a fictional near-Earth object impact. The realistic schemes are devised by JPL's Center for Near Earth Object Studies. The mastermind for creating these fictional threats of doom is the center's mild-mannered Paul Chaudes. The conference is called Planetary Defense Conference. They have been going for 15 years now more, almost 20 years. At each of these, we have, typically, have exercises where we kind of ask ourselves, what would happen if? And at many of these, I put together scenarios of an impacting asteroid heading for the Earth, simulating that and calculating what we would know when. One exercise played out in 2021, began with a new asteroid of an undetermined size being discovered by a ground-based telescope. It is some 35 million miles away, about a third of the average distance to the sun. The discovery is relayed to the minor planet center in Cambridge, Massachusetts, which collects and catalogs small solar system objects. News of the asteroid is then passed on to JPL. Oh, oh. Oh, oh. Oh, Chotis. And we picked that data up. We do that routinely. All of this is up, as we do that routinely. All of this is automated, so we would compute today's orbit as accurately as possible. And the uncertainties in that orbit, which initially would be huge, and determine whether or not there's any chance of impact. Now, for this particular scenario, that impact is only six months away, and so our software would immediately detect the fact that this could hit the earth, we need more observations. As it goes past, so it's pretty cool. A mere six month lead time is dire news. But initial calculations show that the probability of an impact is low. About one chance in 2500. But to have any confidence in this estimate more observations are needed. So depending on where the true impact trajectory is. Four-a-week astronomers across the world aim their telescopes at the night sky. And with each observation the odds of an impact increased. Continuing to track it gives us better and better idea of whether or not it might impact. But there's the other matter of knowing, well, what are the effects of that impact? And that depends on the mass of the asteroid, which is basically at size. But we never really know its size accurately, unless we have something like radar on it, or we visit it with a spacecraft and take images of it. These two options aren't feasible. Radar is only effective when an asteroid is near the Earth. By then it will be too late. And with the impact just six months away, there's not enough time to launch a spacecraft to make up close observations. So virtually nothing will be known about the asteroid's size and the damage it might cause. The risk corridor, the risk corridor, let me move ahead to through a lot of this stuff. By the end of the first week, the probability of the asteroid hitting the Earth has climbed to 5 percent, or one chance in 20. As to where the impact may occur, the potential areas are at first literally all over the map, covering two-thirds of the Earth's surface. Large swaths of the Earth are at risk initially, and it's our job to get a better and better orbit to narrow that down so that we know where the asteroid is headed, and we can isolate the region of the Earth where it might hit. To make matters worse for the next few days, new observations by ground telescopes aren't possible due to the glare of a full moon. Astronomers use this time to search through their archives, looking for any possible past signs of the asteroid buried in their records. Meanwhile, for policymakers, a major question is what information should be shared with the public and when? The data on which we base our orbit calculations are really international in scope, and they're available to all around the world, and the other orbit computers can run their calculations, maybe not quite as elaborate as ours, but come up with similar results. So it would be very difficult to kind of sit on this impact prediction and not tell anyone. The group suggested headline doesn't meant words. Newly discovered asteroid poses risk of Earth impact in six months. I think these are just normal. Another week goes buzz. The effort to comb through past data has paid off. It shows that the asteroid had passed by unnoticed seven years before. With this orbit data in hand, It passed by unnoticed seven years before. With this orbit data in hand, a better prediction of the asteroid's flight path can be constructed. The news is not good. The impact probability is now 100%. The potential target areas are narrowing, too. A new headline is prepared. New observations confirm asteroid will impact in six months. The regions at risk are Europe and North Africa. In this particular scenario, with only a few months of warning, it's really impractical to think that we could deflect this particular object. So then this scenario was designed more or less to deal with the civil defense issues of what you would do to evacuate areas once you knew more or less where it's hitting and once you knew more or less its size. If the asteroid is as large as 160 feet, the impact is expected to be as powerful as the atomic bombs used in World War II. If it is a thousand feet in diameter, destruction would be measured on a continental scale. A half mile wide asteroid could mean global catastrophe. Meanwhile, an international effort has been exploring how a space mission might protect the Earth. We did talk about what we could do to mitigate and whether there would be any possibility, but with six months there's not much. It's soon apparent there's not enough time to attempt a deflection technique that might knock the asteroid off course. The only option left is to try to launch a spacecraft armed with a nuclear explosive device. The engine ignition. And because so little is known about the asteroid, the recommendation is to send as large a bomb as possible, and then hope for the best. Of course, this assumes that a spacecraft, capable of being quickly armed with a nuclear device, is possible. Currently, no such rapid response capability is known to exist. Meanwhile, observations by the infrared space telescope NioWISE provide the first information about the asteroid's size. It is likely no more than 500 feet in diameter. The impact zone has narrowed down to a region mostly within Germany, Chetje, and Austria. Among the cities at risk are Munich, Prague, and Vienna. It is now six days until impact. The asteroid is four million miles away and now in range of JPL's radar imaging assets. The size of the asteroid is further refined. It is somewhere between 300 and 400 feet in diameter. Estimates of how powerfully impact could be ranged from 9 to over 150 megatons. tons. To give those numbers meaning a single megaton contains the energy equivalent of a million tons of TNT. The day of impact arrives, the asteroid enters the atmosphere at the precise time predicted. The world can only await what will follow. Today we know of more than a million asteroids in our solar system, and thousands are found every year. Most reside in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, and they pose no threat from that location. Of concern are asteroids that are nearer, especially those that can cross Earth's orbit. It's believed that 90% of the near-Earth objects that could cause a global catastrophe have been found. But there are estimated to be thousands of asteroids large enough to cause severe damage over a wide region that have yet to be discovered. But that knowledge doesn't seem to keep asteroid hunters awake at night. These events are so very unlikely to happen that it's not something that we lose sleep over. In fact, I feel more confident in the sense that we have capability to deal with them. Out of the tabletop exercise, there was one big takeaway. Greater awareness of the extreme challenges that come with a late discovery. The bottom line of that exercise is that that asteroid could have been found earlier, at least seven years earlier, with a better asteroid survey, a more sensitive survey, such as any other one. Had a more robust detection system been in place that included a space infrared telescope, this fictional asteroid might have been known years earlier, allowing for a number of mitigation options. There could have been time to build and launch a reconnaissance spacecraft to determine the asteroid's composition, mass, and size. With that knowledge, a plan of action to divert the asteroid could have been devised. So what is the best line of defense? The answer is worth repeating. The primary goal for defending against near-athobics is on earth impacting trajectory. Is to find them early, find them early, and find them early before they find us. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. What's up Perceptember? Five planets and a super moon eclipse. A NASA solar sail that you can spot from the ground and a global night for the moon. And stick around till the end to view some highlights shared in last month's video. Starting with the visibility of the planets this month, you'll notice Venus sitting very low in the west in the hour following sunset. Over the next several months, it will rise higher, increasingly becoming a fixture of the early evening sky for the rest of the year. Saturn's in the southeastern sky early in the evening. From there it'll be visible overhead all night, and you'll find its setting in the west as dawn approaches. As for the ongoing pair-up of Jupiter and Mars, Jupiter's rising around midnight or soon after, with Mars rising an hour to an hour and a half behind it. So it's best to look for them high in the south, southeastern sky in the early morning before sunrise. And in morning twilight during the first week of September, if you can find an unobstructed view toward the east, it's a decent opportunity to spot mercury for those in the northern hemisphere. Turning now to the moon, the full moon on September 17th is a super moon, meaning it's just a little bit closer to Earth than its orbit than your average full moon. It looks ever so slightly bigger and brighter, though, in practice the difference is hard to see. It really is super though, as the September full moon is often called the Harvest Moon, given its association with Harvest Time in the northern hemisphere, plus it's going to show us a partial lunar eclipse. You'll see a little bite taken out of one side of the moon over about an hour. Check the timing of the eclipse for your local area using your favorite skywatching app or website. In Europe, the eclipse takes place in the early morning hours, while in the US it's in the evening, and that's while the moon's rising for the west coast. As for moon planet parrots, the moon leads Saturn across the sky on the 16th. Look for the pair in the southeastern sky following sunset. For those in the US, the pair will appear very close together early the next morning on the 17th as they get lower in the western sky. In fact, those in the western half of the US can actually watch the moons start to occult or pass in front of Saturn before they set. On the 22nd, the moon rises a couple of hours after dark, sitting super close to the Pleiades. And this is kind of a special pairing if you're in the US, as the moon will actually pass right through the Pleiades over the course of the night. So if you have binoculars or a small telescope, you can look periodically over the course of the night as the moon crosses directly in front of the bright star cluster. On the 23rd, the moon rises in the late evening hours with giant Jupiter. They climb high into the southeast sky as dawn approaches. And then on the morning of the 25th, the Crescent Moon appears near Mars. This last full week of September is really lovely before the Sky Brightens, as you have the Moon and two bright planets together with the bright stars of the winter constellations, so don't miss it. There's a new opportunity to observe a bright NASA spacecraft sailing across the night sky. NASA's advanced composite solar sail system, or ACS-3, is a small satellite that's testing new technologies in low-earth orbit. It recently deployed its 30-foot wide solar sales. These are a means of propulsion that could allow small spacecraft to sail on sunlight. The ACS-3 solar sails are highly reflective and make the spacecraft appear nearly as bright as serious, the brightest star in the sky. You can find out when the solar-sale spacecraft will pass over your location using the NASA app on your mobile device. International Observe the Moon Night is September 14th. It's an annual event when fellow moon enthusiasts come together worldwide to participate in events and, you guessed it, observe our nearby natural satellite. You can join from wherever you are, attend or host a virtual or in-person event or simply observe the moon from home. On the 14th, in addition to many lunar maria and all six of the Apollo landing sites, this year offers an opportunity to see the Maria's hills, volcanic domes and cones that are notoriously difficult to observe even with a telescope, unless sunlight is streaming across them nearly horizontally. Fortunately, that will be the case on International Observe the Moon Night 2024, when we'll get to watch a lunar sunrise across this knobby terrain. So however you pronounce it, grab your telescope or find an event near you and join this annual celebration of observation. Here are a few views of highlights in last month's sky. And here are the phases of the Moon for September. Stay up to date on NASA's missions exploring the solar system and beyond at science.nasa.gov. I'm Preston Dykes from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and that's what's up for this month. Are you looking for a new furry family member? If you are, this is the show for you. Adopt a pet today, sponsored by the Pet Care Foundation. And this time, we are at the North Central Animal Shelter on Lacey Street, just off figure rowable of art in the shadow of the one tin freeway. But if that's not a good location for you, there are five other LA City Shelter locations. You can find out where they all are at LAanimalServices.com that's LAanimalServices.com. Now we're gonna go inside and Sally Samut and I are gonna show you some great dogs and cats. One that you may want to adopt and if you do jot down their A number we're going to give you A numbers and then you can call up or you can run down to the North Central Shelter and adopt a pet today. But if you don't see one that you really want you can go to their website LAAnimalServices.com and you can see all of the animals at all six LA city shelters or you can just drop in they're open six days a week the only day they're closed is on Mondays. So let's go inside and see some great pets. Sally and Karen are here with Apollo. Beautiful, beautiful Husky, about three years old. He's at North Central. His A number, two and three, nine, four, six, seven. If you've watched our shows before, you know, you need an A number for any animal that you want to come see. Hi Apollo, you've got beautiful blue eyes, dude. Of Karen just met Apollo, she said. He's been here for about three months. You know you want to come in and meet the dogs. Do you want to spend some time with them to see if you have a connection? Apollo seems pretty calm. He's been out in the yard for about 20 minutes. He is a husky. What do you think about husky? Huskies are great. They're loyal, but they need lots of exercise and they can be escape artists. They know how to open door handles. Okay, so you want a smart dog. If you're looking for a smart, then you might want to focus on Huskies. At the same time, smart means busy and need to be engaged. You need to engage with the dog. Give them something to do. So the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence. This is Apollo. He's at North Central. He's three years old. His A number is 213, 9467. He's gorgeous. Beautiful coloring for a Husky. Yes, and he hasn't been out in a couple of weeks and considering that, he's very calm. He's non-reactive walking by the other dogs. He was non-reactive to the dog in the next yard. Hasn't barked. So nice, medium energy. Good, good recommendation for Apollo. Again, A number because I know you're going to want to see him. A213-9467 comes see Apollo at North Central. All the animals will be sterilized, microchip them, vaccinated before they go home. We now have Tiberius. Oh my gosh, is he a king of Rome? I think he's a king of Rome. A number again important to one five four six two nine also three years old. Also pretty mellow for a dog who hasn't been here very long Sergio. Super friendly yeah. Easy going doesn't pull too much on the leash. Was easy to bring out of the kennel to succeed it overall. He's beautiful you guys. You know it's rough at the shelter these days. It's rough with rescue groups. Hey, Tobarius, look at the camera, Papa. Oh, yeah, you're beautiful. And you know what, Peccare Foundation, the foundation that sponsors this TV show, also has groomers at the shelter. And Tobarius needs a groom, and he's gonna be groomed today. So when you come to see him in person because you're going to want to do that, he will be all shiny and bright and clean with all the tuffs of hair gone. Oh my gosh, this guy is amazing. He's been here less than a month and look at how calm, oh, what a dog. A number, two, one, five, four, six, two, nine. This guy's amazing. Lovely dog. Definitely will make a good pet at home. And have you handled him very much? I have it. No, it's actually the first time and you know, he's a dog. Okay, for dogs who greet people and handle people this well on first meeting. Oh my gosh, this is amazing. Takes treats like your man. Yeah. Okay, treat motivated, easy to train, easy to walk, but a big dog. So keep that in mind. Probably 50 pounds maybe. Maybe a little more. Maybe a little bit more once he fills in. Yeah. But he is gorgeous going to get groomed today. Microchip, vaccinated, sterilized. A215, 4629. Now we have a female dog, about five years old. Her name is West. I like your name, mama. Another calm dog. I don't know, Sergio. What are you guys doing to these dogs? A2131559, North Central, sterilized, microchip, vaccinated, ready to go home. And you know what? She's going to get a bath this afternoon too. And I'm not going to answer Jill if he has met her before, because he has met none of these dogs before. And we've just got some wonderful dogs. When you can get dogs that are comfortable with new people, it's amazing. Super amazing. She's unfortunately not treat motivated or at least the treats that I have, but been really mellow on the lead for me. So that's an interesting thing. If you talk to a trainer or if you work with a trainer. He said not treat motivated his, maybe if he had a high value hot dog, she might be treat motivated. But sometimes dogs just aren't treat motivated. So you have to find out what it is that they want. Attention, pet, you know what is it that would stimulate them to be happy and to want to do what you ask them to do, although such a mellow girl. Yes, super mellow, super friendly. I think we'd definitely do well in a home setting with maybe another dog about her temperament. So, West, would you look at Dusty, our cameraman please, because you have a beautiful face. Yes, you do, You have a beautiful coat and even prettier this afternoon after your bath. Karen is here with Prada. We've moved up to the luxury brands at North Central, her A number 215-3808 and Prada is actually starting a new color this season and it's called bronze and this is our she's beautiful in the shelter in the in her kennel she probably look black but she's this beautiful chocolate black gorgeous dog she's been here 10 days about a year old she's doing very well for a year old pup that's only been here 10 days. Yes she walks easily on the leash. She takes treats gently. She was non-reactive when passing other dogs. She's your easy lab. You are an easy lab and you're all, look at those beautiful pearly white teeth. She's a fine. So I'm also going to move on just a little bit and ask Karen to give a brief description of her t-shirt that says canine youth alliance. They do work at North Central and what do they do? The canine youth alliance takes kids from the Boys and Girls Center in Pasadena and pairs them with animals from our shelter and they train the kids to train the dogs in obedience. It's fabulous. They meet a couple of times a week and for about six weeks and the dogs learn all their basic obedience training and how to behave in public and And then at the end, they have a graduation here at the shelter, and then the dogs are available for adoption. Amazing, amazing, great for the kids, great for the dogs. I mean, one of the things, Prada said, but you weren't paying attention to me, Karen. You were talking about something that had nothing to do. Well, it might have something to do with Prada. You might get to join that club. Canine Youth Alliance, check it out, Google it, and see what they do, what good work they do. And while you're doing it, come see Prada at North Central, A215-3808. And Canine Youth Alliance would work with her being a little impolite jumping on people Okay, oh we we now have chubs Okay, so chubs probably needs a walk or two are you interested in doing a little moving around? Because chubs is gonna be the one who wants to move move around with you chubs. You need to look at Oh, he found something very exciting You know dogs need to sniff. They really do need to sniff. Let. Oh, he found something very exciting. You know, dogs need to sniff. They really do need to sniff. Let me tell you about Chubs. He's about four years old. His A number, 2094517. And actually Karen knows this guy. Let's find out what she knows about him. Yes, Chubby has been in this shelter twice. The first time he was called Smalls, he was redeemed by owner and then found abandoned in a park a few months later. So now this is his second time in the shelter. He's a volunteer favorite. He's a big ham. He loves attention. He just wants to be a lap dog. He was in K9 Youth Alliance and so he was trained by 11 and 12 year olds. He's a little out of practice. Chubby, sit. Good boy. And he's also famous for his split. He likes to lay down with his back legs spread and his belly on the ground. Hey, Chef, look at the camera. Look at the camera. Look at the camera, Chef. We're... No, he wants to hug. He said I want to hug. Yeah. So, he's been in the training program, but you know if you don't keep it going on for a while, he needs to have some refresher training. And he likes to play, he's very affectionate. If you want to spend some time with your dog and have fun with your dog. An example of a dog that's been in the K9 Alliance program, his name is Chubby. I have Chubs. I kind of like Chubs. It's a nice one syllable thing. His name number, 2094517, you know when they say volunteer favorite, you really have to pay attention to that because there are a lot of different volunteers. They all have their own likes and dislikes and if everybody likes chubs then you're gonna like him Come see chubs at North Central and take him for several walks Toby is kind of a partner of Chubby they came in together known as big and small Karen says but Chubby is not small anymore Toby is about seven years old his A number is 209 4516. They would be fine going home by themselves. Yes, they came in together twice, but they could be adopted separately. They're both fine separately. In fact, I think it would be better because Chubby tends to take all the oxygen out of the room and Toby's more calm and he's just the sweetest dog. He would be so easy. He would be good for a first-time dog owner. He has medium energy. He just needs to be walked. I believe he's house broken because every time I take him out, he immediately goes to the restroom. So he's a good dog. Toby, hey, come over here and look at the camera, handsome. Yeah, look at the handsome, handsome camera man, and be handsome on camera. This is Toby, seven years old. You know what, if you've never had a puppy, you might want to think seriously about wanting a puppy. Karen says this guy is pretty easy, probably house broken. There's a huge advantage to a dog that can just walk into your home, go pee and poop in the backyard, sit on the couch with you, go for a walk around the block a couple of times a day, Big, big advantage. Okay, we've got Shadow wanting to look at the camera, but being distracted by life. Shadow's been here for less than a month. Our guess is maybe some great day. You may have noticed when you look at up dogs, cats, whatever on the website for the shelter, they don't breed identify because it's problematic. It may look like a Staffordshire mix and it may be, I don't know, a German Shepherd. So this is Shadowfax. I'm going to call him Shadow just because I like that name better. He's about four years old. You're really handsome Shadow. A number, 215-2675. He's a four years old. You're really handsome shadow. A number 2152675. He's a big boy. You know, if you're 90 pound weakling, you, I mean, you could handle him if you do dogs. However, you might want to consider the fact that he's big and strong. Definitely a strong puller. Very happy dog with very energetic. So whoever does take Yeah, definitely a strong puller. Very happy dog with very energetic. So whoever does take him definitely training might be something to look into. Yeah, yeah. I mean it doesn't mean if you're small you can't have a big dog but you have to appreciate the fact that it's a big dog and you need to work with big dogs and all the dogs appreciate training they want to know what the rules are. I smell good don't I shadow? I got dogs all over me. It would be better if it was food, but there you go. Shadowfax, North Central, handsome handsome guy. 215-2675. He's only been here less than a month. He could probably use a bath too. I mean, I think he's mostly white. He was a stray, so who knows what his life was before he was brought to the shelter. But what another mellow, mellow, mellow, mellow, mellow. Okay, we're in one of the very young kitten rooms. These guys are about 12 weeks old. Looks like they all came in at the same time, Sergio. What is CCP mean when it says stray CCP? So CCP is a community cap program. That's where community members will go ahead and bring stray cats in. They were brought in at a young age, so we went ahead and spayed and neutered them and we're trying to get them socialized so that they're not completely feral, and they can actually make it into a home setting. Gotcha. So, you know, some of the cats we show, like some of the dogs are a lot more comfortable with people, and some of them not so much. So you're looking at some cats, as Sir Geo says, were brought in at a young age off the streets by a community cat program. And so that they're not used to being around people. It's like us being around people or different kinds of people on the rest of the stuff. They're just not totally comfortable. I will say that of the six cats that are in here that are 12 weeks old, three of them have already been adopted. And I'm guessing it's probably based on looks maybe, because none of them are running up to us saying, hello, hello, come pet me. But if you are interested in working with a kitten, socializing, frequently rescue groups and shelters recommend taking two home, but if you already have one cat at home, that's super friendly. Maybe one of these guys would work into that house. Definitely, and they're super young, so it's young enough age to where you can still bring them around. The more you socialize with them, the more easily they'll be able to acclimate to a home setting. Got it. So if you're looking for a friend for a cat you have or if you're interested in doing two of these guys, I mean you'll be busy 25-7. I guarantee you. We're looking at a Calico-ish black white and kind of tab orange tabby. Beautiful. I will say that cat is named Trace Letcherse and is going home. He has already been adopted. But come see the kittens at North Central. 12 weeks old, three of them are still available, and they're going to want some work. And now we've got a picture of a Tuxedo, a beautiful Tuxedo who says, I think I'll sit here away from that cameraman in his life. That's Canole by the way. His A number, and it's actually not him, it's her. A number is 2155415. Another female that's available is 2, 1, 5, 5, 4, 1, 4. And the last one is 2, 1, 5, 5, 4, 1, 9. Female. Three female kittens are available. We're looking at Chachi, you know, of Chachi and what's her name? Chachi is eight years old. OK, I feel a little sorry for Chachi. He was an owner surrender. He's been here two weeks, Sergio. Look at how calm he is. He's used to being in a home. He would love you to take him home and pet him. He could use grooming, but you know it's not as critical as the longer-haired cats. Eight years old orange tabby. Great look on his face. Is he purring, Sergio? He was purring a little bit. He was purring a little bit. longer-haired cats, eight-years-old orange tabby. Great look on his face. Is he purring, Turgia? He was purring a little bit when I was petting him. Definitely a sweet cat used to be in handled, obviously, by the, you know, him looking back over and allowing me to pet himself. Beautiful coat, beautiful looking cat. I haven't seen orange tabbies with short hair like that. God, he's gorgeous. This is Chachi. OK, we are looking at some more kittens. And I'll have to disappoint you a little. Some of them have been adopted. Actually, we have two white ones available. The tortoise calico looking thing right here has not has been adopted. Let me tell you about the two that are available. One is cauliflower. Okay I might change that name. And the other is I can't read the name. So just color anything you want. They are oh my gosh they're small Sergio they're two and a half years old. A, two and five, two four one three, two and five two four one four. They seem moderately friendly. Yeah even though they were brought in by the community cap program so they must have been straight at some point when they were brought in. They're fairly friendly, you know, they're definitely interested in that place though. So they're at that phase in life where, you know, if you get enough toys and you give them enough affection, they'll definitely be really friendly cats overall. because to me the way I read it says two and a half, they can't possibly be two and a half years. I think it must have been months. Yeah. Oh. I read it wrong. Two and a half months. They're amazing. White cats, butt cats live out in the wild a lot more frequently than white ones, but look at these guys. Yeah, definitely friendly. Interesting in the camera. It's a plus. So. Okay, so let me give you the numbers of the two white ones and I'm not going to tell you which one they are because I have no clue. But their numbers are 215 2413 215 2414. They are available, but they