We'll call the December 3rd, 2024 meeting of the Ashton Town Council to order. We start off with a moment of silence and tonight that's what we're going to have. Just a moment of silence to use as you see fit. So please join me in a moment of silence to reflect on many of the good things we could reflect on. All right thank you Mr. Vice-Mayer would you leave us in the pledge? As you're able please stand and join me in the pledge. Thank you. All right. Now we'll take a look at our agenda for this evening. We have our consent agenda, which includes minutes from the November 19th Council meeting. We have our updated 2045 bicycle and pedestrian plan. We have Berkeley Town Heritage Park Paving Contract and another invoice and voices for the town. We have one presentation tonight. That's the Freedom of Information Act training as required by law. And Mr. McRoberts will bring that to us. After that, we have citizen input time, opportunity for a citizen to come forward and speak to council on a matter. And I'm glad we have a citizen here tonight. We have two action item. First is our 2025 legislative agenda. Next is fiscal year 26, the budget schedule, starting thinking about budgeting. They will have reports, council member reports, mayors report, public works report, and the town managers report. Do we have consensus for the agenda as presented? Yes. Yes. All right, well thank you. All right, we'll move forward in this agenda and just take up the consent agenda. Ask if there's any questions, comments, or motion concerning the consent agenda. Mr. Mayor, I move to approve the consent agenda as presented and pay the bills. I second. Place Mayor, I move to approve the consent agenda as presented and pay the bills. I second. Place Mayor Hodges. I, Miss Soapho. I, Dr. McGraw. I, Miss Barnhart. I, Mayor Trevett. I, all right. Thank you all. And so that brings us to our presentation. The Freedom of Information Act training commonly referred to as FOIA. Good evening everybody. FOIA is an interesting beast. First of all, let me start with the name. It says it's about freedom of information, but it's not. It's about access to meetings, and it's about access to documents. It's not necessarily about information. Every once in a while, the citizens get confused, and and they said I'm asking for information. I need you to answer these 16 questions. I want information. Well I'm sorry the act does not necessarily give you the right to that. Now it doesn't mean that the local government won't do what it can to answer the citizens questions. But the act itself doesn't require the production of documents at the instance of a citizen. It does allow access to existing records and most meetings. All righty. I'm going to go through basically the purpose, the application, what a public meeting is, open closed and of course in recent years we've had a lot of virtual meetings. Public records and we're going to talk about penalties at the end. Like I said the name is a misnomer but the act does require ready access to public records that are in the custody of a public official or a public body. Their employees are agents and it does allow and require ready access to public meetings. It's liberally construed in the interest of openness. And so if there's a question or a gray area, there's a doubt the answer is the meeting is open and the document is public. And exemptions must be cited specifically and they have to be construed narrowly again. Now, as a municipal corporation and a public body, the town council, along with its various other town public bodies, like commissions, committees, boards, public bodies, planning commission, BZA, all of that, they're all subbictifoya. And as a public official and a member of public body, one of the very first sections says, you are required to read and familiarize yourself with the act. Today is about the familiarization. I'll leave the reading on your own time. Who does it apply to? Well, not just the public bodies, but also committees you may form, subcommittees, other designated entities, I say designated entities. If two of y'all go huddled in a corner, that's not a meeting. But if two of you are appointed by the mayor to go out and investigate things and discuss things with members of the board of supervisors and handover and come back and report, well, that's a committee of the council, and that is a public body. So just be aware of that as you are just get to doing that sort of thing. So be careful in delegating functions to subgroups. What I just said. Yes, sir. I'm sorry to interrupt. Yeah. But do you like to take questions as you go along? I'll take them as I go along. Yes, sir. Thank you. This council is good I think about having representatives on different bodies and some like downtown Asheville Association. That's one member of council. Does that change in any way? Is that having a council member as part of a body? Does that somehow change the information that's provided or how? It does not. It does not necessarily turn that into a public body. Now that may be a public body on its own. If it meets the definition. But having a member of council on it does not necessarily make it one. We'll talk a little bit later on about some of the recent case law and some of the confusion that got created in the recent legislative amendments that tried to address issues about what happens when members of one public body show up at another public body's meeting. So let me just hold that question until a little bit later on. Okay. Sure. And as you've asked, all of us, feel free to ask questions. Yeah, feel free to jump in if there's a question. Okay, what is a meeting? An assemblage of three or more of you or any public body is a meeting. If you're basically, if you're discussing the public business of the town or the council and so just be aware of that. It doesn't matter where you are, it doesn't matter what you're calling it, wherever it's held, with or without minutes, whether or not votes are being taken, no matter what you call it. Oh Oh it's just a workshop. It's just a work session. It's just a retreat. It's just an informal gathering. We're just going to hear from the town manager today. Are you all there basically on town business then it's a me and be aware of that. I had one town which will remain nameless that the favorite thing activity was to gather at one of the local council members insurance agency in his back office. And there was about four or five of them gathered fairly frequently discussing the upcunning agenda, fairly illegal. And when that got blasted into the newspaper, it didn't look good for the people involved. So just a word of warning. That thing in the back office of the insurance agency wasn't described as a meeting. They didn't call it a meeting. They didn't consider a meeting, but it was under FOIA. So be aware that informal gatherings are. And be aware that a quorum controls. So with y'all, three members or more is quorum, but if there is a committee or subcommittee or some other body that is created within the town, that has say three members, then two would be a quorum and two would be enough to be a meeting under FOIA, just something to keep in mind dealing with other bodies than this council. What are not meetings? Social gatherings. So if you all go to Christmas party and are toasting the cheer of the year, that's not a meeting unless you all decide to gather in a corner of the party and start talking town business, which I hope you will not. Public forums, this goes to a little bit of your question, Vice Mayor Hodges. Those are not public forums, informational gatherings, candidate parents, meetings of other public bodies. Y'all can feel free to go. As a matter of fact, they were discussing the Wheeler case, which was decided by the Supreme Court a year or a couple of years ago, I guess now. And I went to the FOIA Council meeting, I guess, back December, January, probably about a year ago. And they were discussing what do we do in the legislative session, which they ultimately did. And one of the points that I made to the FOIA Council was it's important for the operation of public bodies, especially elected public bodies, to go and hear from their constituents and be plugged into what their constituents are doing. And yes, go to other public bodies meetings and go to other organizations in the local government. That's what makes them effective. And so if you create a rule under FOIA that says suddenly they've got to take minutes of counsel every time they go to a different public body meeting or organization, that's unworkable and untenable. And so I encourage them not to and ultimately they did not adopt that rule. They adopted a much more common sense rule which was closer to the rule that we always followed which is as long as you're at this other meeting and there's not a corum or three of y'all gathered doing business of the council there then it's okay. It's not a meeting of council. It might be a member of the meeting of that public body and that public body is responsible to comply with FOIA but it's not a meeting of that public body and that public body is responsible to comply with FOIA, but it's not a meeting of council But make sure you don't have a discussion or transaction of the public body business of this council at that meeting And we'll talk about the Wheeler case too because that really is sort of a bad facts make bad law kind of case And and that and that does This is the legislation up on your screen here, 2024 Virginia acts of Assembly Chapter 756. They clarified the exceptions and addressed the concerns under gloss versus Wheeler. You may remember the facts of that case. It was reported widely in the VML publication and stuff. But it was a situation where the Floyd situation was going on. There were a lot of riots. It was Prince William County and there were concerns about what was going on and there were concerns about how the police had reacted to the things that were going on. And so there was a meeting that morning of the Board of Supervisors that evening. And in the daytime, there was a meeting, I believe it was like the police advisory committee or the public safety commission or something like that. And they were there to discuss among other things, did the police overreach? What are the proper policies? How do we properly relate between the police and the public? And that would have been fine. That was a public body, clearly. But what happened is a quorum slash majority of the board of county supervisors of Prince William showed up at that meeting. And it wasn't just that they showed up. I think if they had shown up and listened carefully and maybe one or two of them had said something, you know, supportive or something like that, it would not have created the problem. But they all sat together. They all sat on the front row. The chairman of the Board of County Supervisors stood up and said, I am here on behalf of the Board of County Supervisors and I am here to tell you we're here supportive of blah blah whatever they were saying and literally it looked a lot like a meeting Because they were there clearly doing things that at least were perceived by the court as being county business that was within Their board and in fact the very topic that was being discussed at that meeting was on their agenda that night. And so there was no question that what they did probably stepped over the line. But it did create, there was some very broad language in the gloss versus wheel of their decision that I think caused a lot of concern about what happens, as vice mayor Hodges said, about when you go to another meeting, what happens then? Have I suddenly tripped over something? Well they did clarify the rules, clarify the standard. So it's much more common sense now and it's much closer to what we always thought the rule was, which is if you're going to go to another meeting that's finding, just don't conduct business as counsel there, don't huddle with the majority of the members of this council, et cetera. So that's really the best advice I can give you on that. Emails alone don't cost to meeting. Certainly y'all are welcome to communicate amongst yourselves, but be aware that it could potentially, because for example, nowadays with all sorts of different technologies and social media, is what happens if it's simultaneous? What if it's like, I hit a button and I communicate with all four other members, and then they're all sitting around their computers and they hit a button and say, yes, no, I agree, I don't. All of a sudden it looks a lot like a meeting, doesn't it? And I would just be aware that that is probably at some point trips over the line into a meeting, so I would not go there. I would say that keep in mind that there is a difference between correspondence and discussion and correspondence is not a meeting, but discussion is. I would, my big asterisk and note at the bottom there is, even if it's not a meeting, thus no minutes, notices, things like that required, when y'all do communicate by email or otherwise, if it's in writing, it's probably creating a public document that is published, publishable and foiable to the public. So just be aware that that is the way those written communications are going to be looked at. When you do have meetings, meetings require notice. The date, the time, the location of the meetings has to be posted at least three working days prior. There's minimum notice requirements. Notice reasonable of the circumstances of special and emergency and continuation meetings that are deferred must be given to the public. Contemporaneous to the members of the public body itself. In other words, if you're going to have a deferred meeting or a special or emergency meeting, that's fine. Comply with the FOIA. Give notice as soon as you give notice to the members of the body that this meeting is going to happen. There is under FOIA the ability for people to request notice of meetings of certain public bodies. That's a request that's spoke to be made in writing annually. And I'm sure your clerk keeps good track of those things and gives out notices to the people that request. It's not in the act, but typically notices given to the press and other people that you want to know about your meetings. Meetings may be noticed by adopting a calendar, which I'm sure is, once a year, you'll adopt your annual schedule of meetings that sufficient notice, it also has to be posted. Every meeting has to have minutes. Minutes have to include the date, the time, the location, the members who are present and absent. Summary of the discussion, and I mean a summary. I've had the question over the years, can you put a summary? Can I just like basically publish my agenda as my minutes? It's somewhere in between. It doesn't have to be verbatim, but a summary, sort of the general topics of the debate. It can't just be the agenda, but it does not have to be verbatim. I had a clerk one time who was very, very uncomfortable and would literally insist on preparing verbatim minutes because they didn't want to be criticized for not including the important things. It was a very fractious time in that particular public body. So she was in defensive mode, but that's not required. If there are, is a virtual meeting, or participation by electric communications, there are special rules. And I've been here long enough to know that you'll follow them, and that's a good thing. Thanks to note, for a meeting, the doors must be open. I see your clerk has propped the door, and that's a good way. I think it just really has to be unlocked and available to be opened, but open actually open is no question that it's accessible. Any person may photograph, record, whatever you can, either adopt a rule on this topic or the mayor in his judgment or whoever's supervising the meeting can basically establish rules to make sure that they are not disrupting the meeting. And IE, you know, they can't stand here next to the podium and record they would need to be somewhere discrete in the back or in the center of the room somewhere where they are not actually interrupting the flow of the proceeding. Records related to the open meeting in their minutes, including draft minutes and audio are included as public records. And again, meetings don't need to be verbatim. And there's about 50 different close meeting ones. I've listed the five or six that are most used by councils and boards here on this slide. Employment personnel matters, real property acquisition and disposition, economic development, and that's economic development where a public announcement has not yet been made. Consultation with legal counsel and briefings about actual or probable litigation. Of course, advice of legal counsel. That makes sense. And then matters about awards of public contracts. Sometimes multiple subsections are used just because, for example, sometimes you're discussing a contract and receiving legal advice about it. And you might want to cite too. But there's about 50 others, but those are the five or six that are used most often. There are very specific procedures for entering and leaving. I will tell you the thing that I see governing bodies screw up the most about entering closed session. closed session is they'll say, I am entering to discuss personnel under 2.2, 37, 11, A1. Well, that's nice. That's two out of three things that you need to say. You have to have the subsection. Well, they give that to you. Just pick it out of the code. If it applies, you ought to know what it is. And you have to cite it specifically. And then the purpose of the meeting, the code also gives you that. Literally read the words next to the subsection. The third thing is the only thing that requires some creativity and sometimes legal advice. And that is what is the subject matter of the meeting. My advice is it has to be more than what's in the code. Because obviously they cite the subsection and the purpose than they say subject matter. Well, it can't also be the words out of the code section. Has to be something else. Does it have to be specifically? Like we went into the discussion discipline regarding specific employee, not necessarily. The reason why you have confidentiality sometimes is because you're trying to have confidentiality. So the subject matter has to be more than just what the code says, but it doesn't necessarily have to be so specific that you've given away the whole reason for having it. Like for example, on economic development, you wouldn't name the company that's thinking about relocating to the town, for example. If you're talking about a specific acquisition of real estate, you may not want to mention the specific piece of real estate or the person with whom you're dealing with, for example. No action that's agreed to in a closed session is final until it's actually voted on in public. That doesn't mean that you can't take straw poles and you often do in a closed session. Is everybody comfortable with this? Let's see if show a hand. That's all fine. But realize that it's not binding on the council until there's actually a vote on that. Now a court may impose penalties if there is a failure to certify in the end. And the certification is wording that's literally right out of the statute. And there is a roll call vote necessary for the certification. There is a requirement I didn't put it on the slide that if you disagree with the certification, then you actually are required to state something on the record about that. Now I don't think that that's gonna happen very often in the town of Ashlet, but there are certain places where that does happen. Okay, let's talk about virtual meetings. This is an area where the law has changed a lot in recent years. For virtual meetings, and I'm not gonna make virtual participation like Vice Mayor Hodges of Once or Twice recently has done. I'm talking actual virtual meetings where there's no quorum physically present. It's only authorized in two different circumstances. One is there is a public emergency that's been declared. Either the governor has issued it for a statewide emergency or at least in emergency affecting you or your area. Or it could be a locally declared emergency and there are different statutes allowing the declaration of a locally emergency. So if you've got one of those emergencies, then you are authorized to have a virtual meeting if the reason why you can't meet together as physically in a quorum is the emergency. So think about the pandemic that we had. Many local governments had virtual meetings because they felt like it was unsafe or inappropriate to gather together others had meetings throughout the pandemic and just spread out a little bit. Some local governments didn't have that ability to spread out and did not do that. The other thing is that it's important to make sure that proper notices go out. If you're gonna have an all virtual meeting, the public needs to know it's all virtual. They need to get the same access to the meeting as the members of the elected body. And if it's a meeting that's virtual where normally if it was a physical meeting, the public would be given access and given a chance to speak. They need to be given the same chance to speak in a virtual meeting. It doesn't mandate video participation, but most folks these days do, given the ability of having Zoom and other things like that. Moving on to virtual participation. One note on here, I put in the italics. I took a look at your town electronic participation in meetings. And there are certain committees, boards, agencies, not you, not planning commission, not BZA. I don't know if you're an architectural review board, but there's those that are deemed to be sort of more regulatory and then those that are not. And if it's not one of those things, then you can have an all virtual meeting. This was kind of the line they drew. As we came out of the pandemic, there was a lot of pressure at the General Assembly and the Commission on Local Government to have all virtual meetings more frequently. And they got into a strange kind of thing, especially at the state level, the virtual meetings were very popular, because people didn't want to travel from, say, you know, Washington County or Lee County, to Richmond for these meetings, they'd much rather just attend virtually. Well, it's one thing if you can attend virtual participation, but if you're gonna have an all virtual meeting, they didn't wanna have suddenly that, especially the local government. So be aware that if there is going to be an all virtual meeting outside of an emergency for these other bodies, there'd have to be a all virtual meeting outside of an emergency for these other bodies There'd have to be a policy adopted to address it and your policy doesn't address it It may be y'all don't want it don't need it don't care to have it and that's fine Virtual participation. I don't need to go into this with great detail you guys follow it You've got a town policy. I've seen you do it. You guys do a great job with that. Policy just needs to be adopted annually. I'm sure you'll do that on a regular basis. Before you do a virtual meeting, make sure there's a emergency declaration that makes it impractical or unsafe to meet. Confirm that there's the policy. Make sure you give notice. Make sure you give access. Make sure you give the chance to comment you give access, make sure you give the chance to comment. Otherwise most of the requirements of FOIA still apply. Still let them have minutes, still let them have a quorum, still have to reference what you're doing to the public. And one thing that is important to some public bodies that had virtual meetings on the pandemic, there were questions about the validity of what they did during the pandemic. Some of them did it better than others. You may remember the Barry versus Fairfax case. It was a very famous case where basically there was this major zoning ordinance that was struck down by the courts because they had had a virtual meeting to adopt it and had not complied with FOIA. That was fixed by Fairfax first, but then the General Assembly basically ratified everything during the pandemic. If there's going to be virtual participation, you need to give advance notice to the mayor of the desire to do that. Reasons for that include disability, medical condition of the public body member or their family member, or a public body member is a caregiver of a member of the person with disability, or it can just be a personal matter. There still must be a physical quorum of the body. Remote participation has to be approved by a majority vote to make sure it's consistent with the policy. The policy has to be applicable to everybody and has to be applied without any kind of prejudice or non-formity. Remote participation for a personal matter is limited to two meetings per calendar year and no more than 25% of the total meetings. I had a question. Yes, sir. Being the most likely candidate for virtual participation and I went through the treatment regime. I should have potentially several meetings that I have to miss for medical reasons. Is there a limit? I notice you have two meetings for personal. That's for the personal reason. If medical participation is not limited. I see. Thank you. Good question. The reason for the remote participation is needs to be recorded. I guess just to keep track of how many there are and what the reason is. All persons at the meeting must be able to hear the voice of the remote member that doesn't seem to be a problem here. All right, that's really it on meetings. Now I'm moving to records. All records are presumed open unless they are specifically exempt. I won't read for you the definition of public record. Suffice it to say it's broad. It covers just about everything you can imagine. That could be in written form or reduced to written form or published in any way, shape or form digitally or on paper or any other way. As long as it is related to town business. If it's related to your personal business, then it is not to town business. If it's related to your personal business, then it is not a public record. And so just be aware that there is a line there. Important is it really has to do more about the substance of the record than where it is. So if the record is on your personal device or on your personal laptop at home, or sitting on your personal Gmail account, that does not necessarily mean it's not a public record. It could be a public record if it has to do with your public business. And you have a duty and a sworn duty under as a member of this council to comply with FOIA, and that includes producing things from your personal devices. And so just be aware that it's not a great idea to use your personal devices for public business. And if you do, though, you need to make sure that you comply with FOIA. Yes, sir? I'm on a...and veteran or whatever the term is, a note-taker. And how long do you have to keep these records? Well, how long you keep it is not a matter of FOIA. How long you keep it as a matter of the Records Retention Act, and which is a whole different set of things in the library of Virginia has a whole set of documents that talk about various categories. I would say your personal notes are in the category of keep it as long as it's administratively helpful to you and then destroy. Okay. That's a little squishy, but it helps. Well, it is necessarily squishy because administratively convenient is really up to you. But I will say your personal notes are not in the category of things that the Library of Virginia categorizes it, it must be kept at all. And so therefore it necessarily goes into the administratively convenient andizes it, it must be kept at all. And so therefore, it necessarily goes into the administratively convenient and when it's not destroyed. I will say there's one exception, is don't destroy your notes after you receive a FOIA request for your notes. Because that can get you into a violation and all sorts of things. So that's my only exception to the destroy-win convenient. It's never convenient when you've been asked for it. And I would imagine that if there's a threat of litigation somewhere out there or you think there is. Well, and I will say that's probably the other exception is that if there has been a litigation hold placed on it by your lawyer, your lawyer will probably say, hey, we've been sued. Please don't destroy any documents related to this matter. At that point, I would say that's probably my other exception. Yes, sir. Are the term you're using for him personal notes equivalent or separately separate and distinct from working papers, which is a thing you get thrown around. Well, working papers is something you get to use because you get working papers as the chief administrator, so it's different. Working papers are probably mostly included within the term administratively convenient as far as how long you keep it. But the reason why it's important is there is an exception and we'll get to an amendment under to produce them to the public. So if somebody says, hey, I know you're working on that, whatever it is, project there, or your staff is working for you. And you haven't gotten ready to publish it to the council yet or go public with it. Then that's your working paper. And you are not required to produce it. Practical tip, use your town email account. And if you do use email or some kind of personal thing, then copy or forward it to your town account so that there's one place for everything. So if and when you get requested, it's easy to produce. Sometimes I've seen that to be the biggest problem for my elected officials on governing bodies is when there's a FOIA they're like, well, I've got it in like four different places and they're four different names and emails and it gets to be a real problem. If you keep everything in one spot for your official duties then it's real easy to produce it. And if you use your town account then the town can actually respond for you because they have everything on the server. So just be aware that's just practical tips. As far as record requests, it doesn't require special words. People don't have to say FOIA or Freedom of Information Act or I'm exercising my rights under FOIA. If they just simply say, I'd like the documents that do this. That's all they have to do. All they have to do. All they have to do is say I want it and they get it. That's intentionally open and it's intentionally easy to comply with. So just be aware of that. Another practical tip. If you receive a written record request, this is just my suggestion. You know, you can consult your town manager or your clerk for other details. As I would suggest, you immediately forward it to your FOIA officer. And just say, dear FOIA officer, I received this FOIA. Would you please help me respond to it? And then they are responsible for keeping track of the days, making sure all the documents are gathered, the proper response is made. If appropriate, the proper exemptions are cited. That's kind of things. So that's why they are FOIA officers and why, they can be a big help to you. I saw online that there was an Ashland police FOIA officer as well, which is great because there are very specific rules that I don't go into a lot of detail in this presentation on for investigative things that are in the, you know, bowels of the police department that are being investigated and a bunch of other specific rules about police matters. And so if it is a police matter, I suggest you turn it over immediately to the police FOIA officer. A request must be for a record. Again, as I said at the beginning, it doesn't cover ideas, it doesn't cover thoughts, it doesn't cover in-person conversations. Tell me how many conversations you've had regarding that topic. That's not a FOIA. It does have to be a fairly specific request. It can't just be, you know, give me everything that is helpful to me on this topic. Well, I don't know what that means, you know, can you be more specific? It can't be what's in your head. You can't be FOIAed for the contents of a phone call or what you said in a meeting with staff. You're not required to create a record to respond to any request. You may wish to. And I will say there are times when they've asked for such an enormous body of things that, you know, is there some way I can give you something that's more helpful to you than these 10,000 documents? What I really want to know is this. All right, well, can I give you that in lieu of the 10,000 documents, please? Oh, yeah, that'd be fine. Well, you can work those things out. Upon a receipt of a valid FOIA request, the town has five working days to respond. Weekends don't count. They're just working days. Holidays don't count. They're just working days. Holidays don't count either. The response has to be one of basically four or five things. Here are all the things you requested. That's easy if it's a small request or just a handful of documents. Sometimes it's worth holding everything. I'm sorry you've asked me about pending litigation and that's the investigation of my lawyer. I'm not going to hand that over. Here are some of the records we've requested I'm not going to hand that over. Here are some of the records we've requested, but we're going to redact parts of it or not give you certain other documents. And there are specific rules that I've put on the slide here about what you actually need to tell them. Like if you're withholding everything, you have to tell them the volume and the subject matter and the specific code section. If you redact some of it and give them some things and keep things, then you don't have to give them the volume, but you do still have to tell them the subject matter and the exemption. The fourth possible response is the records don't exist. Sorry, we've looked. We don't have it is always a fair answer if it's accurate and it's compliant. The fifth answer is we can't possibly get this done in five days where you need more time, in which case you get seven more business days. If you need more than 12 business days, then you must petition the court, which rarely happens. Or sometimes you just work it out with a requester. Dear requester, the person with that information is on vacation next week. Can I give it to you like the Tuesday after? Usually the requester will go, yeah, that's fine, whatever. Costs, actual costs for accessing, producing, copying, things like that, including staff time and copy costs, sadly not legal review. Sad, but that's true. But you can cover the actual costs from the requester. If the costs are expected to be more than $200, like it's a big request, then you can actually make the request to the requester and say, look, it's going to cost probably around $500 for us to respond to this. Do you want us to do this? And if so, I want the $500 in advance. And then the time for the response is stayed until they give you the $500 or they say, well, I don't really want all those documents. What I really want to know is this. And then you give them something less. And then it all works out. The town does have an official policy on charges under FOIA. The town basically follows the act and doesn't have really a separate policy. Copy costs are 10 cents a page that's under our appendix C of the town code that we adopted not that long ago. Generally speaking the town does not charge for record requests when the costs are less than 10 bucks, which is just, there's something real simple we'll give it to you just because we're nice. Exclusions, there are lots of them. There's probably dozens and dozens and dozens of exclusions. Here are some of the more popular ones, like personnel records. Unless it's your record, you don't have the right to see somebody's personnel record. Okay. Written Advice of Legal Council, Legal Memoranda, Work Product, Records Complopile, Exclusively for Use and Close Session, records regarding the negotiation and award of a specific contract and customer account information, other personal information. Non-exempt portions of records do have to be disclosed with the information redacted. So for example, if there's a document that has some exempted information and some public information, you're required to redact the private information. Enforcement. Procedures are in 37-13. Somebody that files in generalistic court gets an expedited trial, which means that your town attorney only gets seven days sometimes, or less notice of a trial in generalistic court. And there are attorneys fees to a successful plaintiff. And the burden is on the local government to prove that the exemption was appropriate. There are penalties under 37-14 for willful and knowing violations. So if there is a willful and knowing violation, there can be up to including fines, there can actually be a criminal misdemeanor at some level if it's basically an intentional destruction of documents for example. So just be aware that those things are out there. What is willful in knowing? Willful in knowing are separate and distinct elements. Knowing is essentially you knew what you were doing. Wealthful is you did it intentionally or willfully. Basically you willed it to happen. You didn't just accidentally do it. And there's some code sections there. 37-14, here's basically the language about the civil penalties. and there's some code sections there. 37, 14, here's basically the language about the civil penalties and here is more resources. You can always talk to Doug, you can talk to your town police, FOIA officer. Your town has a couple of policies, I've cited there. You can always go online. I really recommend the Freedom of Information Act Advisory Council website, highly. They have opinions in there. You can search them by topic, by subsection, by a lot of other things. And so it's very helpful. And they do have online versions of the act. If you're interested after my presentation to run off and read the whole act from beginning to end, I recommend that you go to the Virginia Legislative Information Services website. They have an official version, or you can just Google Virginia Freedom of Information Act and it pops up with the legislative information. The nice thing about using the LIS site is that you know it's the current version. You're not relying upon something on a shelf that might be an old version or whatever, you're actually got the current version and that's really it I thank y'all very much for your time and attention if you have any other questions I'll be around all night Totally 742 Yes, and mr. Mayor just as a as a note Mr. Mcrobert's full presentation will be included in the minutes So if there's links in there that you want, you'll check the minutes and those those hot links that he's got in this presentation will be live and you click on those links. You don't have to write anything down. All right. Thank you very much. No, thank you. Thank you. And obviously you're keeping track of these dates when things take place so that we know that we get our next refreshment. Refresh goes in the book tonight, sir. Absolutely. Excellent. All right, well that, excuse me, that brings us to citizen input time. And so we invite any citizen who'd like to come forward, to come forward at this time, identify yourself by name and address, and we're appreciating you being here. I so appreciate the opportunity to just counsel and any others that might be a part of the meeting. My name is David Broda. I live in 208 Duncan Street, block away from Council here. And I was attracted, I've been a resident for six years and I was attracted to Aslan by running some five-case and ten-case and usually on the weekends Saturday and just enjoying the excitement of that day. We had bikers, we had runners, we had joggers, we had walkers and he just grew on me. And so when I decided to downsize in mechanics, they'll sell my house, I moved up here to Aswet and I don't regret it for a day. In fact, my love for Aswet has grown. It's hard for me to believe it because I came up here for the running aspect, the walking aspect, but I've really fallen in love with the town and how things have done and you need to be commended. I'm a walker, a jogger. That's what the young people call me. I'm not a runner, I'm a jogger with the young people. I think I'm a runner, but they don't agree. My favorite routes are along the railroad tracks from Vaughan, a round my home, down England to Hill Carter. And back again, and that's two, three miles depending on what shortcuts I take. And the concern I have is I appreciate so the towns accommodations for walkers and joggers, especially the flashing crosswalks. But I'm very much concerned about the lack of compliance to those flashing crosswalks. And my perceived lack of enough police enforcement of those flashing crosswalks. I have many stories to tell you about my experiences, but we won't go into that right now unless you desire it. I have three areas of potential improvement. One is education. Drivers education in the school system. In this area, it should be mentioned, the regulations on the crosswalks. Randolph-Macon has an introductory session with the police department. They talk about drugs and alcohol. Add the crosswalks. Many of those students come in here. They don't know what a crosswalk is like. A flashing crosswalk. We got to educate them. The second is enforcement of a law. Laws on the books that are not enforced hurt the law of biting citizen more than the scoff law. There needs to be an adherence to the law or there should be no law at all in my opinion. We need more tickets. Tickets reverberate through the family, through the neighborhood, through the whole community, when tickets are given to drivers that do not enforce, that do not adhere to the law. Speed living enforcement. You know, I have a problem when I come off a route one coming from Richmond onto England. I have a problem to get down to 25. There's a sign there right at Wauwawa that says 25 miles an hour. In the summer time you can hardly see it. If you look at that sign and I've looked at that sign many times now. There's spinners. And those spinners have spun. There's no more spin left in those spinners. And those spinners have spun. There's no more spin left in those spinners. There's no more color. These newer spinners have like orange neon that goes around. That's all gone. They need to be updated. If you're doing 25 miles an hour on England, and I'm crossing at the police station, you can stop quite easily. If you're doing 40, you're not going to stop quite easily. The tendency is either to slam on the brakes or to gun it and leave me in the middle of the road waiting for you to pass. So I think that needs to be looked at. And then the third point is sign enhancement. It's 25 miles an hour on England, between Route 1 and up further, I generally just go to the track. That needs to be enforced. I love the new speed reader on Aschcake. You know what I mean? We have a speed reader on Thompson coming into town. And that speed reader on the ass cake is great because that's the way I come from Richmond to my home. I go off ass cakeate Center to dunk it. And, you know, when I make that corner there at Sheets, I see that sign, 38. I say, oh, I got to slow down. I got to slow down. But I like those speed readers. It's a tough spot I know, but I'd love a speed reader at Wawa. My conclusion. The primary concern that I have is in my own life. When I cross that street at the flashing light, I'm assertive, but I'm careful. I hit that button and I look to see if there's somebody right there close by. And I realize they got a pass. And look to see if there's somebody right there close by. And I realize they got a pass. But once they pass to somebody there, I take off. And when I get to the middle, numerous times these vehicles don't stop. But my primary concern is my life, but that extrudes to other walkers, just not me. It extrudes to other walkers and to every walker. And it should be that way. And then in conclusion, I'm also thinking about the new railroad park. I don't know all of the stops and maybe they're not all developed yet. But there's one down by the barber shop. And a lot of the new people are going to come into Asset. Families are going to come into Asset. And kids are going to come into Asset. And they're going to go down England. And my goodness. We're just asking for trouble if we don't keep the enforcement up on that area. And that's all I have to say. If anybody needs to check with me, ask me any questions. I would be glad to do it. But I think that's enough of my time now. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Glad you so much. Thank you. Glad you chose, Ashley. All right. That takes us to our first action item, the 2025 legislative agenda. We've gotten a first blush of this before. Mr. Good. Yes, sir. Mr. Good. Yes, sir. Well, let's see if the computer wants to, there we go. This is your 2025 draft General Assembly legislative agenda for the General Assembly session that starts in January. We first brought this to Council on November 19th, as the first look. And Council provided some feedback that evening and the subsequent day that I want to just go over the feedback. So the only changes that you will see are in red. And the first change was Dr. McGraw asked to add some language in the section dealing with marijuana concerns regarding treating marijuana use or abuse rather as a public health effort. And so I reached out and did a little bit of research from the American Public Health Association. This is the language that they had in their public agenda from a few years ago. And I believe that met with Dr. McGraw's satisfaction. We found that language. The second revision that you will see in your package rest to do with including a sentence from the VML Infrastructure Committee that was provided to me by Vice Mayor Hodges regarding the Virginia Passion Array Authority. I'm happy to go over that word by word, but I think you can see that there, and that just gives our position on that. And then there was a change. Mr. President. Mr. President. Mr. a change Mr. Mr. Goen if you would mind I'm slow in the uptake sometime if you'd go back up to the first red line section yes sir and just give us give us a minute to read through that absolutely sir now we've had it in our in our midst but I just want to give opportunity tonight just for individuals to just look at it one more time. I'm going to go back to that rail statement which again was provided by vice mayor Hodges that believed vice mayor Hodges correct me from it was from the Virginia Municipal League and for Struxford Committee. That's correct. Oh, thank you for adding that. Great. Okay. And the last change was actually a deletion. I had included this as a repeat from last year, but it, I went back and reviewed Mr. McRoberts, legislative update from last year and then found that, in fact, that Senate Bill 85 from the 2024 General Assembly of session remedied this. So we can take this out completely because it has been addressed by legislation at the state level. Cool. And I verified that that Senate bill did pass. And that is the extent of it. So staff would recommend that that council consider adopting this 2025 draft of the legislative agenda. Legislative agenda and upon adoption by Council your clerk will then transmit that to our federal and state elected leaders that represent us and The general assembly and Congress Any questions or comments from anyone And if not then a motion Would you appreciate? Mr. Mayor I move for adoption of the 2025 legislative agenda as presented. Second. Mr. Soapal. Aye. Dr. McGraw. Aye. Vice Mayor Hodges. Aye. Ms. Barnhart. Aye. Mayor Trevett. Aye. No, thank you very much. All right. Now, this year, 26th, our budget schedule. Mr. Ferrer? Yes. It is that very exciting time of year again, and I'm not talking about the holidays, but budget preparation time. And so we bring you tonight a calendar to lay out for the public, especially obviously, Council. We want you to be informed, but really, this is a guide for the public on ways to influence, interact, and communicate with us about the budget. And so we've got this schedule for you. I'm going to run through it relatively quickly just for the public who are listening at home so they can kind of note the key times that would be great opportunities for public input. On February 4th, our town council meeting, so 6.30 p.m. We will, what we used to call this was an unofficial budget public hearing, but now we're just kind of listing it as a budget public input opportunity. The idea there being for the public, come tell us what you want to see before we've even started putting things on paper, right? So you get early access to potentially inform the budget as it's being developed. Subsequent to that? Yes, please. Do we advertise this? I think we have advertised it in the past. Obviously no requirement with foyer or anything like that to do it, but if you'd like us to, we'll put it out. In paper ads, I never know. Yeah. I think just a good faith effort, because I think it's a great idea to entice the public to come in and give us their input initially. So they're not reacting. Sure. Being proactive. Yeah. But they may not know about it. By default, they will all be on the website. They'll be on social media. They'll go that way. The question is always, do we go to the paper level? And I don't know. I'm not sure if you're looking at me. I'm just looking to see. And we're happy to do it. There's a small cost to it. But if it's a means of informing the public, we're happy to do it. It I'm all alone. So I mean, if you read the print paper, I agree with you. I don't. I haven't in a while. I do and probably the only one on this diet. So a good faith effort. You know I find our ads on the back end of the local and the local less and less reports on what we do. So I don't know. And we've had to weigh that as staff, whether we advertise in the Richmond Times of Spatch, the local, what meets legal requirements, but also what is most accessible to our public. And oftentimes those two things kind of switched, depending on what paper you're looking at. So mayor, yeah. May I ask a question? Because I'm afraid a one-line notice might get buried. Would it be of, and I'm stepping out of my line if you're asking this question, would it be of equal import, I guess, to meet your needs, to publish the entire date of summary of the schedule. If we just put an ad about our public input process. I think that's a great idea with your notes. Great time for public input. Yeah, I would suggest something similar also if it could be in one of those magazines that does seem to go to everyone's house. Like the official magazine. And I don't know the reviews, the one that we participate in regularly. I got to figure out everyone's house. Like the actual magazine, the, and the I don't know the reviews, the one that we participated in regularly. I got to figure out when the timing that I think that there is something that does already go to everyone's house. I don't know if the timing were at the neighbors of Ashland thing there. I think he's talking about the Hanover review. No, I was talking about neighbors of Ashland. I never signed up for it. It just comes and I get it. I don't know, but I mean the Hanna review sounds more official So I mean yeah, it's a publication of Hannaver County that we have four pages in so it's most certainly official and it does go to all the homes Yeah, I just don't know the timing of it So I don't want to guarantee you that that will actually work in the timing of budget prep But I still support put it in the print. So I mean, if you can do it. Well, we'll try the schedule this year and see how, see if we get a good reaction from that. If we truly want the public to understand, it's a great time for public input, then we want to make sure it's emphasized just as much as anything else. Sure enough? No, good. As much as waiting, I'm sorry. Oh, no, that's okay. I think it's great to put it out there so that early on they'll see it You know early on in the process rather than towards the end very good I think it's also important to say when you comments really are Difficult to respond to which is at the end of the process. I like the idea advertising hole Good idea mr. Goodman. Thank you for that. Yes And then again as I was saying we moved to March where that's when we get advertising. Good idea, Mr. Goodman. Thank you for that. Yes, sir. And then, again, as I was saying, we move to March where that's when we get into the weeds and we do budget work sessions where each of our department heads come, present their budgets to you. We will present all the line items of every bit of the budget. What we talk about may not be every single line item because that would be an exceedingly long meeting, but there is an opportunity to talk about every place where a number is placed in the budget and those two meetings March 11th and March 25th. Both at 6 p.m. those particular meetings, those are outstanding opportunities for public input. Great time for you both to offer comment, but also hear what the departments are suggesting as well. After those meetings April 15th, we start to get to the more formal product part of the budget process. That is where I will submit the official town manager's proposed budget. There is council discussion. It is not a public hearing but oftentimes the mayor will acquiesce and allow public input for those. I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing. Another opportunity right when it's being presented is a good time and pre the next one which are the public hearing. So on May 6th we will, if we follow the schedule, certainly have a budget public hearing, schedule that 645 and you'll see a second one listed there, the real estate tax public hearing. That's listed for 630. That one is that one and I think all of you are used to my explanation of this at this point, is if real estate assessments in the town go up over 1%, we have to then advertise a real estate tax increase and have a associated budget public hearing with it. And so the first one there at 630 is as needed. I'm gonna tell you, it's gonna be as needed. You've all gotten your assessment notices. It's gonna as needed. You've all gotten your assessment notices. It's going to be needed. So we'll hold those two budget public hearings and those are honestly while they are the statutorily required places for public input, they're actually not that productive of a location for it just because it's so late in the process as some of you are commenting on. And so the earlier we can push the public and making comment the more effective that that public comment can be. And we cannot vote on the budget the day that we hold the public hearing on the budget. So we push that. And in theory, if we follow this schedule, we would adopt the budget on June 3rd, 2025. Okay. So with that, I'm happy to take any questions or would love to hear your motion. We will vote on this tonight. I don't know if you need a vote or whether just consensus, but we have one more meeting in December. We have two meetings in January. And so I'm thinking if we dispatch this tonight, it's worthwhile to make sure that we mention this at each of our next meetings so I just want to make note of that whether it's part of the town manager's report but let's not waste those weeks so we can use our meetings to keep reminding people all right after that any other comments or a motion? I think we got a motion coming. Make a motion. I move to adopt the FY 2025, Army 2025, 2026 budget development schedule as presented. I second. Ms. Barnhart. Aye. Ms. Soapall. Aye. Vice Mayor Hodges. Aye. Dr. McGhart. Hi. Ms. Sokol. Hi. Vice Mayor Hodges. Hi. Dr. McGraw. Hi. Hi. Thank you. Mr. Manager. Mr. Mayor, in light of your comments about kind of keeping this in the public mind, I'll also get with Ms. Miller tomorrow about it maybe a little more repetitive and frequent notification about public input arbitrarities. So good. Yeah. Notification about public input arbitrared attendees. Yeah, I like the way you do this with, you know, sometimes people will say, well, I'm out of town on the fourth. Well, okay, we'll look for the next date, but usually we'll have individuals say, I didn't know. And let's remind them, you know, phone, text, get hold of us anyway you can. Skyrim. No, thank you very much. All right, so moving into the reports here, council member reports. And we always start with Ms. Barnhart. If you and Ms. Soapall ever want to have a discussion and say, hey, let's go. Got to write sometimes. We can do that. And the new year, how's that the new year we could go in the other direction? How about that to you. In the new year, how's that the new year we could go in the other direction? There we go. How about that? Okay. Just a couple of things. First of all, I had a chance to go to the third house of the Star Neighborhood, the Habitat for Humanity Dedication. It just always makes your heart sing when you go to those dedications. And the other two houses are coming along nicely, so it won't be too long before that neighborhood is filled. And I hope that we have an opportunity and the funding to continue with Habitat, because it's such a great organization. I just want to say thank you to everyone, downtown Ashland, all of volunteers, anyone that was involved with life of tracks and the holiday parade. It was a lot of fun, and I know I've heard wonderful things from people all over the area that have come to take in the events and actually had a great, great time. And then the last thing I just want to say is good luck to read enough making as they go to Salisbury, Maryland this weekend for this next round of the football playoffs and we just wish a well. Right. You're here. Great. This is Vice President. Tended the October 31st, Richard and Regional Transportation Planning Organization meeting in which we had a presentation on bus service that's now provided up at one to Virginia Center Commons, which is great. And we also decided to make our project submissions every other year in order to take advantage of leveraging and smart scale funding. Tended the November 15th Central Virginia Transportation Authority meeting. And in that meeting there was a presentation of fall line management and maintenance responsibilities. It was basically a presentation of a paper because Central Virginia Transportation Authority is a funding agency, not a managing agency, so they can't make a decision. So basically, they pointed out different options, but for the town of Ashland, which has the only section of the Fall Line Trail, which is built and accepted, there is no management authority over that. There is a question about maintenance of that area. The area that's built is in town right of way. And VDOT has said, at least at this point, that they're not interested in maintaining it. So we have that responsibility. There is an section that's in the town. It's only about 1,000 feet that is being built for VDOT. And that area, VDOT be expected to be to provide maintenance. But it's good to know of where we stand regarding the fall line trail and the basic answer is the region hadn't decided. There's no entity that's in charge. It's not the Central Virginia Transportation Authority plan RVA or our TPO. They hadn't decided who's going to manage the fall line trail and I just point that out because I think hopefully we come up with a regional body that will take that responsibility. Mr. Vice Mayor, can I just add one caveat to that. There's a key distinction here, and CVTA was kind of confused about it at first to a between maintenance and management, right? Maintenance, it's more or less covered. Someone's maintaining a chart of it. Management of it, promotion, doing ride user counts, that kind of advertising of it, it would be a little bit odd. The issue is it would be odd if every locality did their own there should be some central and that's kind of the point the vice mayor is getting at is who is that central body that's going to promote it and track it and kind of manage it over time as opposed to who's actually fixing the pavement as it gets torn up. Well said, better explanation but anyway it's a void at this point and we're trying to fill it. And the last comment, Council Member Barnhart stole my thunder on the Macon football team but also Saturday night in ash on the Randolph-Macon-Vasca ball team, host Archrival Hampton Sydney College, go checkets. Thank you. All right, thank you. Thanks for the roll. The musical Elf at Patrick Henry High School, which is going to be joined with the middle school for the first time ever, starts tomorrow, and goes on through Saturday, and there's rumored that they may even continue because it's really popular. So if you'd like to attend that, several of our town residents will be participating in it. Fashion Theater had a wonderful songs of praise and thanksgiving. It brought a lot of people into the town. It was a very well attended event. And though they're not quite turning like a profit profit overall, each of their programs are turning profits. So it is nice to know their live music is profitable and they're learning even better ways to make it more efficient. And so like they're on their way to that. And having first-run movies like Wicked is bringing people to the town. I get it, it really is. People want to come to that smaller theater and be able to do that. You might see prices go up for rentals because there's private rentals that have just been in high demand and that's just unfortunate. It's just the way it goes, I guess. But their prices are pretty reasonable. A lot of the tracks was great. Old Town Holiday Parade was great. I wanted to mention it. I was in a board meeting with the Kwana who kind of organized that and they're in a quandary and we've had these conversations before with committee groups like aging out and wanting to have things going. So their concern right now is like trying to have put less stress on the police but at the same time trying to grow participation. So that's a, that's a, I just wanted to put it out there so you'd know that that's in the, in the works or people were talking about that had wonderful interviews with, with the mayor for the EDA. And our, our plan, our VA, our dues were going up slightly and there was no real concern across the locality. So it seemed like it's affordable and it's worth it. We're definitely getting our money's worth for the town. And we heard from, oh, there's a joint committee of the House and Senate committee on education and plan our VA put a joint statement out towards that, which is a fairly positive, it's a long statement, so I'm not going to read it. It was nice to know that all of our localities, all nine of our localities agree on something like that big. So that was good. And when we heard from a special agent, Brian, with Virginia Department of Police, and he gave us a report on drug trends in the region and it's quite eye-opening and if you're interested in trends and reports and things like that please go to planarva.org and look at the meetings and the notes to that it's a really good presentation but it's a lot so I don't want to go through all of it except I did want to say it would surprise you the trends around us. As we're seeing heroin use go down, we're seeing synthetic opioids go up. I'm sorry I was so long. I just had a lot of exciting things. They're so cool. Hi, everybody. OK, on November 20th, downtown Ashland Association had their board meeting and progress is being made on their strategic plan. The Christmas market is coming up on December 7th. On November 21st, I attended a habitat home dedication on Arlington Street, which was very exciting to see a mother and her children move into their new home. On November 23rd, the morning of light up the tracks, I had not signed up for anything. And I'm like, I'm, you know, I know now that I have time to do something, what am I going to do? So I went on the sign up page and the first thing that I saw was Alpacas. And I'm like, what's that? So once I realized what they were, I went on and signed up to do that. And I will say I fell in love with Elpacas that evening. Very, very enjoyable. I really enjoyed working with them. On the 24th, we had the Christmas parade. That was lots of fun. And I saw many excited faces. I think more excited adult faces than children's faces. The next market, Ashland Partnership meeting is coming up on December the 11th. We have great networking and it's very informative. And I did also attend Song's appraise at the Ashland Theater and I saw Wicked not once but twice. That's all I have. All right, thank you. All right, as far as the mayor's report, I missed reporting this last time, but I was invited to be a judge at National Elementary School for students' entries of pumpkin decorating. And what I found is that was harder than doing for students' entries of pumpkin decorating. And what I found is that was harder than doing zoning decisions and trying to find out of all of them, four or four that we could give some awards to. But anyway, a lot of creativity is out there. And so I appreciate it being invited and participating in that. Like everyone else, the parade light up the tracks, everything went well. We had a little challenge from a freight train there and getting the parade off the ground but it seemed like everybody kept their cool and worked there with just having a few minute delay, but thankful that that got taken care of, of running to people in the community, dog parks and whatnot. And I've heard nothing but positive comments about both the parade and light up the tracks. Individuals that don't live in the town tell me how, hey, we came to the town, we had dinner at one of our y'all's restaurants, and then we went over to another one, sit one and met other people. Then we went to a different one on the tracks and finished up in another Ashland business. So I've heard nothing but positives. It was a right-sized crowd, I would say, for that night. So anyway, thank you for all of that. I'd mentioned in our previous meeting, meeting with the local Girl Scout troop, as they talked about, elections, and that sort of thing. And mid-November had opportunity to go to Tampa, Florida, for the National League of Cities Conference, and spent, I guess, two and a half days down there and I'll just say it was it was time well spent Anytime I go other places and talk to people Not only about what you learn that's new but learning what how good you have it, where you are with the team, team members on council and the staff we have. I got to participate and, well, be a witness to it. I did make some comments at a rail forum. And so had some FRAA individuals there, individuals that interact with Congress. And I can say that the concerns we have, the main focus for that day was on stopped trains. And when they speak of stopped trains, it also referred to long trains that stopped the flow of traffic. So made a couple of contacts and I don't know this, it's not going to be any easy nut to crack and trying to get the railroads to have less power. But anyway, it was time well spent and I've spent a fair amount of time with other members of municipal leagues across the country. And so hearing from people in other states, again, it is a remind me of how good we have it. I hope that we'll bring some fruit back from the rail discussion. If we do, that'll be very satisfying. Virginia Municipal League, we're looking to have what normally we do according to schedule, the practice has been that in December, we would have a meeting, and the meeting would be in the hometown of the most recently elected president. And so what we've decided this year is we're going to move that date. When you're getting people to come from other parts of the state, you want to be respectful of the expense in the time. So the first thought was to move it, and have it in conjunction with legislative day at the General Assembly. With that posed a problem, if individual is giving time to do that, which is certainly a big focus that is wonderful as Ashland is, requested that people would come spend time and maybe have a meal and a meeting here. So what we decided on June is generally a strategic planning time for the Virginia Municipal League. So there's nothing else that'll be asking for the time. And so we're looking forward to picking a day in June when Ashland can host the VML board and they can spend some time in town taking a little tour. So I just want to say I'm pleased with Ashland, the connections we have with the Virginia Municipal League and I look forward to more fruit from that. Let's see, I think that's about enough from the mayor. So we'll move on from here to the Public Works Report, Mr. Jennings. Good evening, members of town council. You have the Public Works November report as part of your packet. I'd like to highlight a few things we've done, things ongoing, a few events coming up. So November Public Works finished the first pass through town for our leaf vacuuming program for our residents. This week we actually started the second pass through town and we're actually in the, in the, in the zone east of Route 1 right now. And as usual we put it out to our residents on Facebook and Channel 17 and the town website. As you'll probably, I know you've seen, especially with the event town, town events and lighting the, lighting the tracks events that our crews have put up all the lights around town and all the tracks events that our crews have put up all the lights around town and all the street lights that we maintain and in the buildings and also put up the big Christmas tree. So the good thing this year since it was a second time doing it and more familiar with it only took two days to put it up this time which was exciting so they were pleased to report that so. Towning Armstrong are town's annual contractors, still working on the additional parking lot out back. Everything's going pretty well. Our really well, weather permitting, that project should be substantially complete by the end of the year. The only thing outstanding really should be is the light post that are gonna be around the park a lot. We're gonna expect them to be delivered to the end of January, so that portion won't be done, but we're hoping everything else will. A few other projects, construction of the Maple Street Trail Project to add or improve to the asphalt, make it a 10 foot asphalt path along Maple Street from Ashcake to East Francis has begun this month month and if all goes well we expect that to be complete by the end of this year. For the England Street Scape Project, Dominion Energy has been working on the Duck Bank along, it's a duck bank to really contain all the main fibers and conduit between, it's along Maple Street between England Street and Robinson, and they expect that to be done within the next couple of weeks, which would be nice. Mayor, I mean, Vice Mayor Hodges mentioned the Fall Line Trail from the end of Walter Road to a Gwaltony Church Road under construction right now. Unfortunately, we're notified today that they hadn't put the final asphalt layer down yet and depending on the weather It might not be done till spring So we're hoping if they can get a few days of warm weather they can come in and pave that So that's really they're finishing up some some great yes sir. I didn't mean to interrupt Just what are the chances of opening that section ahead of the other sections the one between Walder Road and Galtmey. So I had that discussion with the project manager of V. Today and it depends on a couple of things. It depends on safety because they have some, there's actually some open grading to some ditches and stuff that are open right now and there's concern and there's still got some equipment in there. And also one of the things that technically is the fact that until that phase is complete, the contractor is still liable for anything that happens in that section. So there might be a concern of if an incident does occur that the contractor would be liable. So if we can get it in, if we can get that, what's the work on the, the shoulders complete, get the signage and stripe and get the asphalt in with a couple warm days, they are willing to open up that phase once it's been accepted. So, but we're going to work on that. Thank you. So, but one of the things I need to remind, take this time to remind folks that this is a construction zone right now and please stay out of that portion of the trail. It's very easy for someone that's not familiar with that to get down in there and get, you can get into a blind spot in one of those operators of equipment and not realize that an equipment could hit you. You know, there's been some areas, there's some rough areas that have been graded and there's open cuts, as I mentioned for pipe insulation. The safety fencing and no trespassing signs have been ripped down, torn down, and people have come in there, pedestrians and cyclists. And Mr. Goodman, would like to, if you could please bring a picture for me. Just so you know, we're not exaggerating. We're not exaggerating with people you're kidding. So we have even had last Monday, they removed the fencing and barriers from the Walter Road in and drove south towards Gwaltney Church Road. So it's not only pedestrians and bicycles. There's actually a vehicle that went down the road. So this picture was taken by a contract without their doing work at the time. So yes, so there's, so we need to hopefully the public will stay out of the construction zone until it's complete and ready for opening and obviously vice mayor Hodges will open it. We'll work with VDON as soon soon as possible as long as it's safe and The longer I mean people are gonna use it and yeah sooner or we can finish it the better Right and they know as well as anybody that if it's out there It's enticing to use because it you know It's looks like finished asphalt even though the final layer is not on it still looks nice for a path to run and jog on or walk on. So they understand, but we're trying to work with them to get that done. Thank you. Another V.com project, construction continues on the V.com route one project, Ashcake, Arbor Oak. They worked on water lines and some clearing and grading along that corridor. I just want to give you all a heads up and also for the public to know, they're going to reduce the speed limit through there due to the construction activity and the narrowing of the lanes down to 35 miles per hour during this construction project. Couple meetings coming up, another V. project, the public hearing plans for the Ashcake Road pedestrian project, those public hearing plans have been completed, and they've scheduled a public hearing. that meeting's upcoming. Another meeting, and as a friendly reminder, and also, so I can mention out to the public, we're having here in Town Hall from 6 to 7.30 p.m. this Thursday, the Jamestown Road community follow-up meeting. This is a share of the information from feedback, from three months of having those speed cushions, those rubberized speed cushions installed, the speed radar feedback signs, we have in both directions on that road, we increase the size of the speed limit signs, add it's in speed limit signs, and also made a three way stop down at the intersection of Woodside Road, Jamestown Road, into the entrance to Lacey Park. So, and with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions. Joel may have. Excuse me. So the James Town meeting is this Thursday? This Thursday from 6 to 730 here in Town Hall. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. Any other questions, Comments? Yes sir? I was asked by several citizens. There's appears to be a missing link between the Maple Street Fallon Trail improvements that we're putting in. And Ashcake, after you cross Ashcake road from the south to the north, it's a concrete, not 10 foot wide like the fall line trail, but the missing link part is should it not be 10 feet and should it not be curved in such a way as it ties you in to the crossing to Carter Park. So I don't know. Yes, sir. Is that going to be addressed in one project? Yes. As you all know, there's two projects going on with along that corridor. It's the Maple Street Trail project, Carter Maple Trail, whatever you want to call it. The trail that's on the pool side of the road. And that improved the path all the way to that crossing to a 10 foot wide asphalt path. Now, when the Swayle project comes in, because of the construction activity and the grading they have to do, with that project, they are going to put the 10 foot wide asphalt curve exactly like you're talking about from Ashcake Road back over to Maple Road. So, so part of it will be done with one project and that corner you're talking about will be accomplished with the Maple Street Maple Slave project. Thank you and one last question. At one point y'all were looking at extending the sidewalks from South from Howard Street down Duncan to tie back into early. Is that a project? What's your next sidewalk project? The next project is including coming down Duncan in around the corner like you're talking about. Unfortunately I have I'll have to admit sidewalk projects kind of been pushed a little bit to the side right. Not shouldn't say push to the side. We've got so many stormwater projects so much going on right now. That's been kind of put on the back burner for the time being, but we're hoping to start that back up this summer. The summer, not spring. Yes, because he's. Is that engineering or construction? The construction. Hopefully the construction, yes, sir. The engineering would be done. Actually, the engineering for that project's already been done. And I think there are a number of people who are not aware. Obviously, we don't want to alert them right now because we're not doing anything. But just to let people know that it's coming because a lot of people use it and it's kind of a dangerous right there. Well, if they have some kind of public meeting or meeting with the effective residents, when we do get going with that project, but unfortunately with everything else going on, we haven't been able to focus on that one right now. I hear you. Thank you. All right, anyone else? Yeah, thanks to you and your team. All right, thank you all. All right, town managers report. Yes, sir. I think five quick updates for you. Most of them were not. I think the last one will be, I think welcome news to a lot of the public out there. So first off, I mentioned it at the last meeting, but keep an eye out the next 10 to 14 days. You'll have your wonderful Ashland calendar slash annual report arriving in your mailbox. We have had some extras printed so if folks don't receive one, please, everyone is welcome. Come on in and we'll be happy to share one with you. We'll note, make sure I'm doing the right week. Yes, this Saturday is the Ashen Christmas Market in downtown Ashen, so expect a busy downtown, lots of shoppers and vendors with boosts out and tables out and a good shopping experience. Most exciting news for me, our new finance director, Ms. Robin Schugart has started with us as of this past Monday, and only two days she's doing wonderfully already and has already taken work off my plate, which I'm very, very appreciative of, so very happy to have Robin, and she will be with you at your next meeting and come do a finance report for you, so you'll get the meter then and then I should have put this one on Mr. Jennings, but The PID system not not much has changed there other than it's not gonna be done in November because for already in December And so we that project is still expected to come into fruition after the new year I don't have dates and times yet We are still trying to work through Amtrak and VRPA, some issues. They're gonna go into a testing and monitoring phase and that will likely be what dictates the timing of when it is actually released and turned on. So bear with us on that. We are trying, I promise. And the last one, most exciting. And thanks, Device Mayor Hodges, for kind of pointing this out to me. The county has put out some public information about Henry Clay, the future use of that particular building. They are going to do some public information meetings. The first being on January 21st from 5 to 7pm and the second being February 5th again from 5 to 7pm. Both of them will be in the gym over at N Weekly. And so they've got a great website. I'm going to share that with all council here in my Friday email this week in coordination with the county. If they are supportive of it, I'll work with Miss Miller to put notes out to the community as well. Understanding that that is a very sensitive topic for the community in one of high interest. Reading through their materials, it does look like the county has put together a pretty good public information process that got some nice presentations that their deputy county administrator Todd Kilduff did to their board of supervisors. So we are finally starting to see some real progress there and I think what initially looks to be a good public process to help us get through the big decision of what to do with that building. Keep an eye out for that as well. With that, I'll take any questions you may have. Anyone? All right. Anything else to come before us this evening? All right. We're adjourned. Thank you.