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I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. you you you you Everyone? One. Everyone, we have to do it so they can hear in the back. I guess they can hear that. All right, welcome to the two o'clock session. We are going to begin with a few moments of silence. thank you. All rise if you are able for the pleasure of allegiance. I pledge that we can stand in the flag of the United States of America and to remember for which it stands, one nation under God, individual, with liberty and justice for all. All right, thank you very much. Just for as a matter of housekeeping, there are a couple revisions. Item 5C has been added to the agenda. In item 15A, that is for Wellington Glen Technology Park. That was supposed to be heard in the 7 o'clock evening session. That has been deferred to April 1st. That has not been deferred to April 1st. For right now, we're going to move on to agenda item number 3. And I was gonna turn it over to Mr. Shorter. Before our lovely Michelle, we're all well except the sword. Absolutely, thank you Madam Chair, members of the board. Really excited to welcome Rich Aaron Baum. If you will come up, Rich to our board meeting today, Rich is a volunteer with the employer support of the Guard and Reserve for the state. And just really want to welcome Rich. He is here to present an award for a patriotic employer. And I'm just really excited to turn it over to Rich to honor our team. So go ahead. Great. Thank you, sir. As Mr. Shorter said, I'm Rich Aaron Baum. I am a volunteer with Department of Defense and Player Support of the Garden Reserve, ESGR. So ESGR is, like I said, a Department of Defense organization made up of volunteers from across the United States. Here in Virginia, we have about 30 or 40 active volunteers always looking for more. So always recruiting. So if you'd like to be a part of that, please feel free to get in contact with me through the attorney's office. That's why I'm here today. But ESGR's main focus is to support the men and women of the Army Reserve and all the other six reserve components as well as the employers who employ them. So we do that by educating and informing those reserve component service members as well as employees. six reserve components as well as the employers who employ them. So we do that by educating and informing those reserve component service members as well as employers of reserve component service members about the use Sarah laws, uniformed services, employment and re-employment rights act. So those are laws that govern basically when a reserve component service member goes away for a weekend of training or in the case of a point of your own up to a year or maybe even longer of deployment and or mobilization. So we are happy to work on your behalf to understand those laws better. We do have trained on Budsman throughout the country and we have a great one here in Northern Virginia to assist you in any kind of issues you may have related to reserve component mobilization orders reintegrating that person back into your organization. So that's one thing we do, but the other thing we are, and I'm happy to do, is actually present awards on behalf of employers support of the Garden Reserve, and that's why I'm here today. So in this case, Captain Regal from the United States Army Reserve nominated three of his supervisors here in the Prince William County Attorney's Office for Patriotic Employer Awards. So at this time I would ask if Michelle, Kurt and Allen, could please step forward so we can recognize them. And as they step forward, I'm actually going to ask Captain Regal to say a few words on why he nominated these three individuals to receive these wonderful words today. Thank you, Rich. Thank you, Chair Jefferson and members of the Board. Michelle, I'm in Kurt. I've been fantastic supervisors and bosses. And I've been very, very supportive of my Army Reserve career. BA weekends, being very flexible about the Monday after knowing I'm going to be a little worn out. Being very supportive of short notes, Ados orders, which I'm on now. So they've been fantastic supervisors and I'm very, very grateful. I'm also grateful for the board for making Prince William a great place for a reservist to work at and specifically supervise their injuries, their reservoirity. Thank you for your mentorship and guidance and being supportive of my Army reserve career as well. So thanks again everyone for your support. I really appreciate it and thanks again Michele on the crew Madam chair members of the board. I want to thank mr. Aaron bomb obviously Derek and ESGR for this honor We are so lucky to have Derek as a member of our office family. We are proud of him for his service to the country. We know how important service to the country is to our office, to our family, to the board to this organization. So I'm not quite sure why we're receiving the award, because I think every employer should be doing what we're doing supporting him. I appreciate the board's patience and the organization's patience. Derek is gone for a year. We're about a third of the way into it, and not that we're counting down for him coming back. But he's been working on some important things for the board. So we appreciate your patience while he's gone. We're looking forward to it. So we want to thank you so much. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am. Without further ado, I'd like to just read one of these and put everybody's name in here for us. From the Office of the Secretary of Defense, Employers Support of the Guard and Reserve, recognizes Michelle Kurt and Allen, Principal and County Attorney's Office, as Patriotic Employers for contributing to national security and protecting liberty and freedom by supporting employee participation in America's National Guard and Reserve Forest. and on a personal note, thank you so much for supporting and being supportive of Derek and anybody else you may have in your midst. Obviously, I feel you're a very military friendly office and organization and I know the board has some military folks on it. Currently serving, prior serving, I appreciate their service as well and everybody's support of the military so thank you so much and here you go Michelle. I'm not sure. Eric, you're sure it's like you just being a charterer. I'm sorry. Thank you. Thanks for your attention. I think everyone of the board knows how awesome our legal team is and it's nice for them to be recognized in this way. So with that, let's move on to item number four, approve all the minutes. Can I get a motion? So move them, chair. Second. All right. Let's take a vote. Vote unanimous? All right. We're moving on to agenda item 95, accommodation and proclamations. We have three proclamations, one for flood awareness week, another for a national 311 day, and the last for developmental disability awareness month. Can I get a motion? So move, ma'am. Second. All right, let's go is for Florida Awareness Week. I feel like saying, come on down. All right, the first one is for flood awareness week. I feel like saying, come on down. All right, flooding is the most common in costly natural disaster nationwide, but only 3% of Virginians have flood insurance. Prince William County is at risk every year for the damaging effects of flooding. The Virginia Department of Conservation and Recreation and Emergency Management have designated March 9 through 15th, 2025 as Virginia flood awareness week, encouraging Virginians to learn about their flood risk and protect the life they've built with flood insurance. The Prince William County Office of Emergency Management in collaboration with his whole community partners is facilitating a variety of outreach activities throughout the month to encourage all residents and business owners to know their flood risk, purchase flood insurance, and turn around, don't drown when run roads are flooded. The Prince William Board of County Supervisors recognizes that those who are prepared for emergencies recover faster. It can help others who may also be infected, demonstrating a sense of community. The Prince William Board of County Supervisors here by proclaims March 9 through March 15 as flood awareness week in Prince William County. All right, Mr. LaBelle, floor is earth. Thank you, Madam Chair, Board of Supervisors. Mr. Schurrer, I'll be brief because you said it all. What I will reiterate though is that only takes a foot of water to move a car and that most of the deaths associated with flooding are actually people in their vehicles. So we really encourage people. We do have all sorts of flooding here in Prince William County. And so please heed the warnings and please turn around and don't drown. I also really need to point out. Obviously we have our wonderful staff from emergency management. They're always my backup singers, but we also have Dave Maxwell from public works and a lot of the remedial work That we're able to do through emergency management is done through the wonderful team at public works and we can't thank them enough Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. We are on to item 5B. Rob Yampseni. This is for National 3-1-1 Day. I think you have the larger entourage. Prince William County 311 is a vital county-wide service that connects constituents to local government resources, providing centralized access to handle requests for service and information about county resources, general requests for services, status updates, and enhancing community engagement. The Prince William County 311 system helps optimize government services, transparency, accountability, and efficiency by offering constituents a variety of technology options to engage with the county, including a call center, 311 web portal, mobile application, chatbot assistance, and automated response capabilities. National 311 Day observed annually on March 11th. Raises awareness for the Suscentual 311 service and encourages constituents to utilize 311 for a government service request, enabling Prince William County to optimize our service delivery. And Prince William 311 is actually scheduled to go live this spring. The Prince William Board of County Supervisors hereby proclaims March 11th, 2025, is National 311 Day in Prince William County. Mr. Messini, we have a few words. Thank you, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the Board, Rob Mancini. When IT rolls in here, we roll big or we don't roll it all. So you're a tough act to follow, Michelle, same with you, Mr. Lebel, Chief Lebel. But I have some folks behind me here who are working very hard on delivering 3-1-1 to the county. They're on the IT team. We have seven other agencies who are our partners here. IT gets to be here today to introduce some of the great people I'm going to give you their names. Brian Koy, Telecom, Bruce Nicholson PMO, is a Bell DeVute performance management, Sean Galaglie PMO, and none other than Rob Rollins for the Infrastructure Division. These are the folks building this system for you. And by the time we're done, Mr. Shorter, we're hoping we're a tough act to follow. Okay. Alright. Thank you. All right. And finally, we have a proclamation for March 2025 Developmental disability awareness month. All right, thank you. Developmental Disabilities Awareness Month is observed annually in March. It is a time to raise awareness about developmental disabilities, celebrate the achievement of individuals with these disabilities, and to advocate for their rights and needs. Developmental Disability Awareness Month provides the opportunity for all to recognize the tremendous value of potential people with developmental disabilities, and to commit to their empowerment, integration, employment, and inclusion. People with developmental disabilities are a value of members of society and can gain greater independence and productivity through community programs and partnership with their families. The Prince William Board of County supervisors, it's committed to empowering and supporting people with developmental disabilities to achieve self-determined lifestyles through community-based living arrangements, employment, and other individualized support services. Today, the Prince William Board of County Supervisors hereby recognizes the month of March 2025 as developmental disability awareness month. awareness month and proclaims its continued commitment to the empowerment and full inclusion of these individuals in all aspects of community life. Thank you chair. Jaffa's done into the members of the Board of County supervisors and Mr. Shorter. I'm the division Manager for Development and Disability Services from Community Services. It's our parent agency. My name is Jacqueline Turner. I have with me, Chicago Johnson, Annie Lang Wickliffe. They are newly moved up program managers. Thank you all for the contributions to our team as we have grown over the years, and an effort to serve people in our community and their families who have developmental disabilities. As many of you hear about autism, but there are many other types of issues that we help people with connecting them to services. And some of you may have heard about the Department of Justice Sultiment Agreement in Virginia, and yay for the permanent injunction that has passed. However, the work for us continues as we try to meet all of those expectations. Our staff have a boatload of work, but they are focused on serving people well, helping them to get their needs met. We thank all of you for continued effort to support our program and for the needs of people in this community. We thank the residents of Prince William County who welcomed them into their neighborhoods, who employ them and jobs, who include them in the community activities that we all participated in and value. So thank you for being good citizens. Thank you. All right, let's now move on to agenda item number six. And that is the consent agenda before I begin. Is there anyone with anything they want to pull off? Six A, Madam Chair. Six A, anything else? All right, with that, I'd like to get a motion for six B through six L. Move for approval, Madam Chair. Second. It has been moved and seconded in a discussion. I see supervisor Franklin. I just want to highlight item 6D to authorize submission of grant application for the National Capital Region Transportation Planning Board. Fiscal Year 2026 Regional Roe Safety Program. This includes port Potomac as well as Indus Drive, neighborhood traffic calming projects. This is something that's been brought up over the past several years to figure out how to mitigate some of the speeding that takes place in our neighborhoods. area's area's area's area's area's area's area's area's area's area's you receiving land from stack data centers for the parcels that are part of the youth for tomorrow development. This is not part of a rezoning application, but what I'm excited about is that this land will extend the linear park and the broadband trail to our county own parcels along Route 28. And this will allow us now to be able to go on from Rollins Ford Park all the way to Route 28, via this linear park and Greenway Trail. So I just wanted to make note of that. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Mr. Reyes, are you ready? Thank you, Madam Chair. Item 6C and 6D, just want to make note of the fact that the 6C is to support the route one at Southridge and Dumfries for pedestrian study there. It's been needed for quite some while. And we're finally getting there. And then 6D is to support the many, the plethora of town halls we've had in reference to Forrest Park, high school, and what's needed there to protect our students. And so in support of both, that is absolutely necessary for this grant. All right, thank you very much. Let's go ahead and take a vote on these items. Vote unanimous. All right, let's move back on to 6a. I believe Mr. Supervisor Rear, did you have questions? Just a comment, but I'll wait until after the motion. All right, would someone like to move for 6a? So move, man, chair. All right, discussion, like to move for 6A? So move, men, chair. All right, discussions, supervisor, we're. Thank you, Madam Chair, for those unaware. This is an agreement for the county to buy back half of a parcel that we sold in 2011. I've got a fairly long history of being in opposition to the county acting as the developer, at innovation and this deal Is not a deal for me and not one I can support we sold a five acre property back in September of 2011 for Fraction over one one million dollars almost one point one million dollars comes out to two hundred and217,800 an acre. The purchaser has developed half the property and now wants to sell us the other half back. But they want to sell us the other half back at $1.7 million or $686,000 an acre, 315% increase. I've been assured that we will recover the money and selling it to somebody else in innovation. But since the last sale I can find was a mere two years ago where we sold 5.6 acres for 1.4 million or $259,000 an acre, I'm not buying it. I'm also not buying that this parcel is particularly valuable given its location and its limited access and some other things including easements that have been put on it since we sold it. So I will not be supporting 6A. All right, anyone else? I don't see anyone on the queue. So let's go. No, no one signed up. Oh, so we are going to move from public comment times since no one has signed up We are going to go straight into item number six. This is public hearings Oh, sorry eight Guys, it's the second Monday, please So we are going to item we're going to the public hearings And I'm going to do eight, eight and eight be together. So this opens public hearings. Do we have anyone signed up in person? Do we have anyone signed up remotely? Okay, sir. I'm not signed up. You know where to sign up, but I would like to ask you. I don't need to be. Yes sir, you may go to the microphone. When you go there, state your name, the Magistarial District where you live. You don't have to give your home address again unless you want us to show it for dinner. And you have three minutes. Thank you very much. My name is Roger Kassmariski. I'm on the HOA board for... Camila adjust a microphone because it's very hard to hear you sir. Okay, my name is Roger Casmarski. I'm on the HOA board for... Kamala, adjust a microphone because it's very hard to hear you, sir. Okay, my name is... is that better? Okay. My name is Roger Casmarski. I'm on the HOA board for Casarica States, which is on talent drive, which is at the corner where they're putting in the new sonic or they're planning to put in the new sonic. I was here for the special use permit meeting. We are opposed to it in Katsua, Wicca States to put in a drive-through restaurant when we first moved in. Those were not authorized according to the paperwork we received. And now there has been a special use permit that has received approval from the planning commission. We're still opposed to it. We do appreciate Miss Bailey's office and the work they've done to finally get a light installed at Talon Drive in 234. The work is continuing. We certainly appreciate that. But this drive through at a location where it was not initially authorized. We bought our houses. We did other things that was not going to be any drive-thrues in that area. And now for that to become the primary use is something we definitely oppose to and that's my comments. Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else in the audience who wants to speak to 8A or B? If not, and you said there's no one online so I'll go ahead. I'll go ahead and close to public hearing. What we're gonna do is, no, we didn't have any. We can go up and speak. All right, so I'm closing the public hearings for 8A and B. I would like to get a resolution for 8A. I'm sorry I moved with someone move 8 a. So moved. All right any discussion on 8 a. Supervisor Bailey. Yeah, be okay. Supervisor Franklin. All right. So nothing for. Supervisor, did anyone want to speak? Did you want to speak on 8A? OK, everyone's lining up for 8B. All right, let's go ahead and do 8A. Let's clear that out. Let's take a vote. Vote unanimous. All right. I would like, unless anyone has any questions for staff on AP I'm going to do a motion then we can have discussion the motion. So move Madam Chair. All right. Who's in the queue? I know supervisor Franklin jumped in Franklin and Bailey. Yeah, since you're district let's go. Thank you very much. Man, I just wanted to, there is going to be a, I want to call Alex up because there's going to be a slight change in the, in the vervege for the motion. If you could please, Alex. So good afternoon, Chair Jefferson, board members. My name is Alex Vannevis from the planning office and in consultation with Supervisor Bailey's office the applicant based on the feedback that we received from the community, the applicant agreed to add the condition to the sonic at Barracks Row and the condition reads in consultation with development services the applicant agrees to submit a construction management plan to be approved by the director of development services prior to site plan approval of this SUP. This addresses some of the concerns with construction traffic that would occur during the overall process. All right, supervisor Franklin. I'm not sure. I wasn't. Oh, sorry. I thought you were finished. No, no, no, no. I just have one small comment. Okay. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, and to the audience, this is a 20 plus year project that we've been working on for quite some time. And I'm very thankful for the HOA President that came early today in your participation and discussions that we've had and your comments really appreciate that. And I also appreciate the owner and the developer being here today and participating in those same town halls that we've had and your adjustments that you've made and listening to the constituents. So I really appreciate that. And now, Alex, I thank you for working with me to make sure once we've had those town halls that we have the correct verbiage based upon what the community requested. And so that's all I have, Madam Chair. I just wanted to have those comments and to say it's been a long time coming but and it's been not a very easy project but a project that has been very supportive of the community. All right supervisor Franklin I mean at this time. Yeah sure I just want to obviously acknowledge the residents that came out with with concerns, but also want to maybe preemptively congratulate Supervisor Bailey on this development. When you look at this area, it's really a sign of kind of the redevelopment that's taking place. I think that's kind of coalescing with the eastern end of the county, particularly with the work that we're doing on Route 1, and the more that we bring some of these opportunities, particularly on the retail and commercial side, to the eastern end, I think the more that we can see that revitalization happening in real time. So I just want to point out how, even though it's just a sonic, it's so important with regards to the revitalization efforts that are taking place. So I just wanted to kind of point that out how important it is in the grand scheme of some of the development work we're doing on the eastern end. Mr. Reviser here. Thank you Madam Chair. Alex, I do have a question. Correct me if I'm wrong. Was there a significant public comment at the Planning Commission public hearing on this? Yes, we discussed several of the items and we did make some changes to the application to address some of those concerns. And we have the applicant here today as well that, you know. That's fine, I'm just saying there was significant, there were a significant number of people who spoke in opposition for one reason or another at the planning commission meeting. There were people that spoke in favor as well as in opposition. Okay. Madam Chair, seems like I keep repeating myself week after week after week with respect to the consent agenda, but I would believe I would suggest that if the planning commission is any indication and it's not happening today, I could give you any number of explanations as to why. Perhaps everything's been taken care of. Perhaps nobody's looking for because it's not in the evening session. But an application that has had that much debate at the Planning Commission level regardless of how the Planning Commission votes. If there is serious resident concern with respect to the application of the time it goes for the planning commission, I'd prefer they didn't appear on the essentially the consolidated agenda so that everybody has an opportunity to say something at the regular time with a full presentation for what it's worth. And let me just click on the application. Again this was recommended for approval by planning commission correct Mr. Vanagan. Chair Jefferson that's correct it was unanimously go to the clarification. Again, this was recommended for approval by the Planning Commission. Correct, Mr. Venegas? Chair Jefferson, that's correct. It was unanimously passed by the Planning Commission. And I do understand the concerns. And I want to say for the gentleman who spoke out, I actually live near you. I am in the Potomac District. I know that intersection very well. And I understand the concerns. Change is hard. having a commercial development closer your residents. You know, again, I understand the concerns. Change is hard. You know, having a commercial development closer your residents, you know, again, I understand the concerns. I think that this is a net positive and I am hoping and we will work with the developers to make sure that mitigate any concerns regarding this project. You know, you have my promise, Supervisor Bailey and I were very closely together or practically neighbors. I understand that this is going to be a big change for your community. If you have any concerns, I can have my chief of staff, her, someone from her office is in here, but I can have my chief come out and give you a card. We can work with you as this goes on to mitigate any concerns that you have or any concerns that your community has. Again, I understand we are a growing county and we will have some growing pains. But to the best of my ability, I would like to mitigate that. I don't know if you want to speak a second time supervisor Bailey. I can't have any chair. And I certainly appreciate your support and Supervisor Franklin's support and reference to this. You know, one of my jobs as the county supervisor for the Potomac District is to shepherd things as projects are coming through and work with those that are in opposition and those that are are positively supporting of projects. And certainly if anybody know anything about my leadership, it's not to ignore those that are in opposition. And so I certainly respect and the gentleman knows that I do. Thank you for your wave. And you're never ignored never ignored and so one of the things that I am very conscious of man chair and and you know this is the Potomac district is very different in that it's very old and it just needs a little lift and sometimes that lift lift, that change, as you said, Madam Chair, is not very comfortable. And so I certainly respect that. But I guarantee you the person that is owning the company that is owning, the Sonic is a community partner. And that's one of the things that we had to learn as we sit on the day and support these projects or we don't support these projects. How are these entities that's coming into the community, partnering with the community? And so I just wanted to give that comment if I could in terms of being a very positive shepherd of my district as it relates to those that are not in support of and those that are in support of thank you Madam Chair Supervisor angry. Thank you Madam Chair. I just I'm gonna comment on this that our single most important Commission is our planning commission I plan to commissioners and we appoint those folks to the commission now That's probably debatable Diadie and all this other stuff, but however my point is we appoint those folks to the commission. Now, that's probably debatable, died E8 and all this other stuff. But however, my point is, we appoint those folks. So this came out of the planning commission, 80, meaning they did their due diligence and heard these causes. I'm simply going to say that I don't think, and I don't know that we want to challenge their decision to then look further into an application. I think if that's the case, what we got to do is go back and talk to our commissioners. And maybe if there's going to be concern of a project, then they don't approve them. And they push it until they get it to a point where they feel it's ready. But at this particular point, I would say that that's exactly what they did. They got it to a point where they felt it was ready for prime time being us and that's it's here. So I think if we're gonna question what comes out of the planning commission, then we should probably talk into our commissioners and see if we think there's some things that they should be holding on to or before all that. But I just don't want us to step on our other departments and commissions of folks that do this work for us to get it to us at this level so that we don't in turn question their abilities to do their roles. That's all manager, thanks. Thank you, I am sorry, sir. I know my chief of staff came in, gave you her card. We are going to take a vote and move on, but I'm happy to speak to you. We don't, unfortunately, this is how the flow works. But if you know you have a seat afterwards, you know, it's the professor world, turn back to you. We don't, unfortunately, this is how the flow works. But if you have a seat afterwards, Supervisor World, turn back to you. If there's time between our meetings, I'll come and speak to you personally. Supervisor Rear. Thank you, Madam Chair. To be clear, this is an issue about the planning commission and what the planning commission's decision is. This is about providing the public the opportunity to have their voice of the public hearing that's advertised and has enough time and I would suggest that if there are you know a number of people that show up at the Planning Commission and opposition they have the right to be heard before this board as well as the Planning Commission and my only objection is to having things like this appear on the consolidated agenda where that that opportunity does not exist unless we pull it off the consolidated agenda, have a presentation and deal with it. But this is just being fair to the residents who may have a differing opinion from the planning commission and allowing them to have their voices be heard. All right, thank you. Supervisor Perr. Point noted. All right. Let's go ahead and take a vote. Vote unanimous. All right thank you so very much we are now moving on to the county executive's time Mr. Shorter the floor is yours. Thank you very much Madam Chair members of the board there were no directives last, so nothing to report out in terms of directives open last week. Do you want to mention that this week the Urban Land Institute will be visiting with a technical review or technical assistance panel. This is a panel of experts who really look at subtly corridor, very important panel of experts and a really wonderful opportunity for the county, for everyone who may not be familiar with ULI and what a tap is, they will look at economic development, transportation, housing, land use, and really give recommendations on ways to improve quality of life, to make sure that we are taking full advantage of the economic viability of the corridor. So just really wanna thank planning, wanna thank our economic development and tourism team for doing all the work of getting them here, and certainly wanna thank the board, supervisor, Gordyy for all the work that I'm sure you're going to do once we get those recommendations. And I'm sorry, the entire board, supervisor Vega, supervisor Gordy, supervisor Weir, and everyone else on the board who will certainly take advantage of the recommendations. Thank you for their reminder, Supervisor Vega. So, look forward to that work. Also wanna remind that this week we have the State of the Parks event. So wanna thank Seth and LeVos and really the entire Parks and Recreation team. I've been to their event a few years now and know that he puts a lot of effort into making sure that we put our our best foot forward for the community at that event so looking forward to attending. It's at Forest Park High School on Thursday evening and with that Madam Chair that is all for me. All right thank you so much we're going to turn it over to our award winning county attorney. Thank you Madam Chair. Thanks. We're. Members of the board with regards to 10 a we have no items for close session this afternoon and with regards to 10 b as you see in my memorandum to the board the general assembly as it does from time to time updates the code of Virginia. So I am recommending the board adopt this resolution that will update your rules of procedure with regard to the electronic participation. And you will note that the code of Virginia says that these have to be adopted annually. So even if the General Assembly doesn't amend it, we will be bringing these back to you annually. All right. Thank you, Supervisor. Do you have a question or comment? All right. Just to be clear that's a change from this year's legislature. No sir it was a change previously and I looked there were some bills in for this legislative session they did not go through so I think that unless and the plan will be to bring this to you in July to see after the general assembly. Okay thank you. All right with that kind of an emotion. So move them, Chair. Second. All right. Any discussion? All right let's keep the string going. Let's take a vote. Vote unanimous. All right, thank you so very much. And I'm going to kick it back over to Mr. Shorter for our presentation for 11 a. Very good. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Members of the board are going to have Katab stand representing public works. This is consistent with the budget presentation on the 18th of February, our one of our many budget work sessions where we're going to have an opportunity to hear from Katab and the team, Monica's here as well, to talk about our landfill operations. Really appreciate all the work that was done in terms of creativity around the recommendation. And I know that there have been certainly discussions since the presentation. So, Katab with that, I will turn it over to you. Thank you. Thank you, Katayak. Exact short, sir. Madam Chair, members of the board, a good afternoon. Katapsa Mochie, Director of Public Works. As the county exec short term mentioned, I am joined also by our Assistant Director for Public Works, Solid Waste, Monica Gorman. We're very happy and pleased to be coming before you to talk about our Solid Waste Program, both in general and as it relates to the county exec proposed budget for FY26. Solid Waste just like the rest of all of our divisions, they're dedicated for protecting the well-being in the safety of our community, preserving the environment and enhancing the quality of life in a county. So with that, how do we do this at Solid Waste? Okay, we operate major facilities. We operate both the Lensville and the Compass facility. We provide services and programs to the public. We promote diversions and recycling. And the more we promote that, the more we take that out of that fill, the more we can preserve the life of our landfill. And we also collect household hazardous waste and e-waste collection. And we do that at the landfill. And recently for the past six months we've done that under a pilot program, also in the western side of the county. And I think we will continue to do that at least twice a year, once in the spring and once in the fall, in the western side of the county. And thank you very much to Omni Wright for allowing us their parking lot to be able to do that. And collect, let us consult throughout the community. Now we have fully staffed three crews that do a great job. And I say they do a great job because I drive the road and they look kind of nice. And I have not received any emails saying otherwise. So. Some metrics on our operation for the county landfill. And again, we're looking at FY 24 since it's a completed year. We've received 366,000 tons of material at the landfill, and that's requiring a 433,000 transaction. At the Compass Facility, we've received 57,000 tons of organics, and processed 118,000 transactions. And other recycling programs and other programs, we have 18 residential drop-off locations throughout the county. We again collect household hazardous waste and litter control special collection events such as a dump today and we just came out with our spring dumpster day schedule and we will be working with your offices for the full dumpster days well Service funded exclusively by solid waste so all of these activities Are funded through our solid waste Enterprise fund and the major revenues for that fund comes from two different sources the primary solid waste fee for residential and commercial as well as the facility tipping fee as trucks come to our facilities to dump their load. These funds need to cover different programs or certain all of these activities in here. The operation and contractual cost and you know that staff both at the campus facility and at the landfill and in the office that covers that and all the contracts that goes with that you know the recycling and other contracts within the fill and the campus. Hey the equipments we purchase hey the equipments we repair them we replace them and we maintain them and that needs to cover that as well. Capital projects you know Glantville when you projects, we do a lot of cells, we do a lot of catting, we do a lot of facilities within the land flow to allow that to happen, scale houses and the like in administration buildings that we have to maintain and keep up. We also have a reserve sink in fund for future planned and unplanned expenditure. We need to have that fund because you never know what may come our way, what we need to cover, and what we need to complete that needs to be planned or unplanned with that fund. And meet state regulatory requirements for restricted funds. Two things. You know, every time we start a cell, that's really not a regulatory thing, that we could do that. The regularity of part of this would be capping that cell. So DT wants to make sure that we have enough funds to cover the capping once we start a cell up front so they don't have to get engaged and be the one doing that. So they need to make sure that we have that. So that is a restricted. And the other restricted is what budget call amortization, which is the restriction that we keep every year to be able to maintain the length until once it's all closed and done for many years after that. That's an requirement that we have to meet for the acute. Request to open a landfill on Sunday, which is really the heart of this discussion for today. When I got appointed six months or nine months ago, I heard it from several board members that we need to look at Sunday. Solid waste need to look at Sunday and see how we can reopen Sunday back to the public. So looking at this option here is leaving the schedule as is, which is currently open from six to six five days a week with an additional nine hours on Saturday, for a total of 69 hours. To add another nine to that, that takes it up to 78 hours. Now we have a lot of concerns with that, because as it currently stands, even Saturday requires over time pay. And to add Sunday to it, it just becomes an costly effort, as well as it's a big, basically, pressure on our staffing to be able to manage that. The other option would be to add more staff. And looking at the scenario we're looking at, it's close to 14 staff members really to manage that in order to avoid the overtime. And by adding overtime hours to the current staff, then we are resulting in a safety concerns. You know, everybody's focused on the landfill, on the work face, operation, and then we start missing out on some safety. There's a lot of activities going on up there. Deferred maintenance, everybody's focusing again on the fill, and that will be missed. And regulatory compliance impacts, we don't want to be there. We don't want DEQ to be in the middle of this because that becomes an issue. Another major factor is employee retention. Employee retention is important thing. Now even with overtime, for a small period I get it, for a very long stretch it becomes a burden. You know, you're working holidays, you're working half of the weekends, it becomes really a big toll and that's really that impact retention and we've seen seen that in the past And compost facility this is more for information compost facility days and ours currently align with our landfill to avoid Customer confusion that's one thing, but there also there's a seamless Calava connection between the two because even in the compost we do have bins and those bins gets filled pretty quickly over the weekend and they need to be hold over to the landfill and you and and take into the work face and compacted in place and all of that. So there's definitely a linkage between the two. Now what we are recommending really to make this happen and to make this within the budget and the readiness that we have and allow Sunday to open would be to take the schedule from a six to six every day to a seven to four. Again, six to six and I want to highlight, six to six means 12 hours. There's just not a one shift that can do this. So we always end up with two shifts. When in the morning, when in the afternoon, there's an overlap in the middle and that overlap, you know, there are activities to be done, but there's only number of equipments to be used. So there will be some inefficiency when you redo this. With this option, your nine hour shift can be done by one crew, by one shift for the entire day. So that's definitely a big saving and a big utilization of our labor. And that will eliminate the routine over time, which really preserve the budget and preserve the readiness that we have. Minimize budget turn impact as a result of eliminating routine mandatory overtime. And we continue to maintain alignment between the landfill and the compass in terms of hours. We need six months for this, because it does require an adjustment. It requires a change, both our staffing, as well as to the commercial haulers, as well as to the public to be aware of what the time of this. So that period can start at budget adoption. It doesn't have to wait until July 1 to start because at that time, we know that which way we're moving forward with this and we can start that process. What does this require? Our recommendation is to require one additional staff member, which is a scale house currently we have seven. We need eight in order to make the shifting and the scheduling work. And we will use 225,000 for a differential pay. And again, all of that comes from the enterprise fund. What will that change by adjusting that schedule? It will change the schedule for 45 employees that we have at the campus and the landfill. And reduction in open hours for commercial holders. We can coordinate with them. And yes, we do have some some concern and we're working with them on that. But that's going to take three hours from your regular day six to six. Now we're going seven to four. And Sunday opening serves primarily residential. We know that. There's very few haulers that will be coming some day and there's emergency at a hospital or something where they have to send a truck or something. But usually it is for the public mainly. So when we say no revenue generation, we mean tipping. So this is just to give you a little bit of a comparison between our operation and neighboring jurisdictions. So currently we open from six to six with an eight to five on Saturday and close on Sunday, total is 69 hours. What we're proposing is 7 to 4 for 7 days, a total of 60 hours. If you look at Loudon, they're still close on Sunday and they have from 8 to 4, a total of 48 hours per week. And for Stafford, they split it between residential and commercial, but either one of them are still lower than the number of hours that we are offering, either with our recommendation. I have a slide at the end that says questions, but if you have any questions so far, you're free to ask if you want. I can go to it. I can go to it. I don't have lines left. No, we can go through the end. I'll take all questions at the end, but thank you. Great. Thank you. Any questions so far? Free to ask if you want. I can go to it. I don't have questions. No, we can go through the end. I'll take all questions at the end. But thank you. Great. Thank you. OK. So another major project that we have in the landfill. And the landfill is about 1,000 and some acre property, the one of a 234. Can it be were using a good 5, 600 acres of it, south of the creek, plowscree, and the rest of it would be north of the creek and what we call phase four. Now, we still have room in the phase three and we're still working on it, but phase four will become an important project to really start looking at and tackling construction-wise in the upcoming years. And I will show you the schedule. But phase four is really planned right now. We're estimated to take about 25,000, I mean, 25 million cubic yards of waste when it's all complete and done. That life cycle, and it will depends on how much material we're coming and how the adjustment and how much we divert and recycling. But we're estimating that to be about 25 to 27 years of lifespan, of life cycle for phase four. We have nine years left in phase three. So in total, we have about 34 to 36 years left in the landfill as an entire property. And we estimate approximately 200 million of investment in capital projects. That's not operation, not anything else. Just capital projects within the landfill for the next 20 years. This slide just shows that it's six years. Expenditures for capital projects within the landfill. You see on FY 26 was really not a lot going on. We're doing the design and we're doing the permitting for phase four. Starting in FY27 and on, we're going into cells and liners and until we get to FY30, FY30 is the year where we have to start breaking ground on phase four. Which phase four is not just a cell and a cap. Phase four is basically a brand new length. That's going to require a lot of infrastructure, a lot of roads in there, a lot of adjustment to scale houses and stuff, and that's a major project. We think that's going to be 29 million. And looking at the schedule where we are with three, that's when we think we're going to have to start that. And that's why we're working on the design and the permitting at this time. If 131 we have $20 dollars estimated to move trash that was kind of left with that before all the regulation and all the permitting, it was left with that any liner. So there's about a million cubic yard of that material that sits under the two bullfield next to the entrance to the landfill that we,, it's not a regulatory issue. It's not we're in compliance in terms of where grandfather, because it happened way before then. However, we think it's a right thing to do, be aware of the stewards of the environment. It's a right thing to do to move that to somewhere within a lined landfill cell within the property. Now, we had it for FY31, not because it's a necessity that we have to do it at that time. It's just the close proximity of that to a close liner, which makes construction a little more feasible than if we take it to phase four, which can be done. So we'll have to evaluate our budget and see what we stand. And at that time, we'll make a decision whether we do it at FY31. Budget wise, or move it over to another year when we have more funds available to us. Enterprise fund forecast. We mentioned in the FY26 budget, we did not have any increases to the Solid Waste fee. For this year, We believe that the revenues for this year equal or exceeds the expenditure's plan for in terms of capital projects. The operation is the same in any year, but for the capital projects. So I think we'll do fine. And FY27 and on, where I showed you we have about $73.9 million of investment for the next six years. We're definitely going to be looking at some adjustment there because historically all the capital projects were sort of like use the fund balance. But the fund balance was never really planned. It was never really forecasted. It was just whatever available. Let's use it and build those cells and caps and all of that. We cannot do this anymore. Construction causes become a very expensive and the fund balance is dwindling, so we'll have to look at ways to really maintain that. So we are thinking or proposing to increase the solid waste fee 2 to 4% for the next few years studying it FY27. Now I said the enterprise fund rather than the solid waste fee because you know there's a possibility of either that or the tipping but that's something we will still have to go through and really review it and and make recommendation to the board and and make that decision at that time. I'll talk to the tutor for you. Any additional service, we only have this much of ready news coming into the solvary. Any additional service that wasn't really planned in the operation would cost money. And at that time we'll have to evaluate and see if additional revenues will be needed to cover that. If it's small enough we will absorb HHW or something like that one or two events we can. But if something more more significant will definitely have to evaluate that and make that decision at the time. So with that, that wraps up my presentation and I'll be happy to take any question as you can and on it, our joint is free. All right, thank you very much. Supervisor Vega. Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you Katab for this presentation and for trying to find a solution to a problem that has been lingering for quite some time. While I appreciate the effort, I'll be frank with you, it doesn't cut it. Everybody works for the most part and saying that the proposed hours between 7 a.m. and 4 p.m. are reasonable is not a reasonable proposal in my opinion. I've had this conversation in depth with the county executive and refresh my memory cutoff prior to the pandemic, which is when we started to see a change in the schedule in terms of the operations of the landfill. What was historically the schedule for the landfill? I think it's the same six to six. The same hours as now with Sunday opening. But again, both Saturday and Sunday. Prior to the pandemic? Yeah, was the six to six, which is the current schedule. And eight to five on Saturday and Sunday. So the last time that the solid waste management fee was was increased was one in 2003. Correct? The last time? Yes. I think it's 23, 24. 24? Okay. So the point that I'm trying to make is that we keep increasing the fee for services that taxpayers aren't really getting and that's the frustration that I get from folks in my district and actually from throughout the county. You know, saying that we're going to close the landfill up at 4 p.m. when realistically speaking, people are still working because most people get out of work at 5 o'clock is not a feasible proposal in my opinion. And in your presentation, you're talking about the potential of an increase that is proposed for FY27. Again, I understand the challenges that we're having with the workforce, but at the end of the day, if the taxpayers of this county are paying for a service, they should get a service that's convenient and conducive to their schedule. And I've asked this several times, Mr. shorter, in terms of it's clear that we don't have the manpower, and that perhaps it's time for us to go and look at the private sector. And I've been told that we've tried and that that hasn't been successful. And so I would request Madam Chair that we get a report of some sorts that indicates what those efforts look like, because I've had folks reach out to me saying that they'd be more than glad to provide those services that the county is not able to fulfill. I understand that we have challenges with hiring people. I understand that based on some proposals that were going on before this presentation was given to us, we've had some employees say that they will quit if they have to work on Sundays. But at the end of the day, when you're increasing every possible fee for the residents of this county and they're not getting a service or a schedule that is conducive to them, I find that unacceptable. And I think that there's more work that needs to be done. And I hope that my colleagues on the day is what agreed to that. I don't know Mr. Shorter what that report or conversation looks like in terms of us getting some help from the private sector. But I use myself as an example. You do yard work throughout the day on the weekends. There is no way that people are going to make it to the landfill in time before it closes. And so this is an issue that is personal to me. It's an issue that has caused a lot of heartache, if you will, or a heartburn, whatever you want to call it, for the residents in my district, and I want a real solution for the residents of this county. Absolutely, thank you very much, Supervisor Vega. Katabha, I wonder if you could just talk a bit about what you found in the analysis of utilization. So who's using the landfill during the week versus who's using the landfill in the weekends and then maybe go back to the slide benchmarking where we are with other jurisdictions and then certainly Zubba Zavega happy to talk about what you might be interested in by way of additional analysis. Okay. So we have again this is for 24 we have percentages of usage of the landfill for certain hours for residential in a morning it's definitely not a problem though and we're talking about 2% of the people come to the landfill before 7 o'clock. And that's when we're going to open. But yeah, there's a higher percentage in the afternoon, I would say about 15% of the numbers of the public comes to the landfill. However, we have Sunday closed, right? So this is not with Sunday opening. This is just currently right now. So I mean we think adjustment, some adjustment will be made to allow that to happen. Again our hours and as can executive short dimension is really no different than a lot of the just why it doesn't work because it's not on the power point. You need to use the mouse to a different slide. No, that's OK. You got it. OK, so this one here, right there. So again, Loudon is something similar to us. I didn't include Fairfax here really, because Fairfax, first of all, is 1.2 million people. Additionally, Fairfax doesn't really have a landfill. They have a waste to energy kind of a facility where it's in a rator. But the jurisdiction that are around us that are similar in nature and size, you know, thousands, 400,000, we are close to 450, 470. So we're within the same range. And they are opening even an hour later than us. And they're managing. I mean, will it take an adjustment? Will it take a change? Definitely. And that's why we're coordinating with the haulers and we're coordinating. And that's why we need the six months to allow that information to be absorbed by others. And adjustments in the future will adjustment be able to be made? But potentially, if we think that that is not a schedule. So the whole idea is I cannot go per day more than nine hours with one shift. And we're trying to really have the most efficient possible way of handling the situation while absorbing the cost of going, you know, if I were to leave the schedule as is and at Sunday, we're looking at 14 staff. We've estimated that to be at $4.3 million additional expenditure on the enterprise fund. And that's something we really cannot manage without really increasing the solid waste fee significantly. So we're trying to manage within the money that we have and within the budget that we have and within the obligation and the responsibilities that we need to do. I apologize. Thank you. So I'm going to move on. I'm going to ask a couple questions and I'm going to go on. I don't know if you want to take your second round. I really appreciate the time that's put into this and this has been something that we've heard. You know, certainly I use the landfill quite a bit. Not just Sunday yard work, but doing deep cleaning, what have you. And I appreciate it the Sunday hours. But I just had a couple of questions looking at the seven to four. Why go with the same hours? Is there a way that maybe on the weekends we can open a little later or maybe have shorter hours? I am concerned about the weekday schedule though because I am concerned about the commercial haulers. Right now with the 6am I don't know how often they're sending trucks over to the landfill but I certainly know I do appreciate the efforts that they've taken to have the early morning service so that they're not on the road with the school buses. So what have your conversation been like with the commercial haulers? We've talked to them, we've shared that with them and they definitely have some adjustment to be made. They mentioned to us, they're routes and they're set up based on these times and then they'll have to adjust their routes and to see how they're going to fit within that. We're working with them. They asked for data. We gave them all the data that we have from last year, how many trucks from different companies came in and stuff like that. And we were still continuing working with them. I mean, will they require an additional truck or two maybe to make that schedule potentially? Because I've asked him at a flat straight question, I said, well, Loughlin has eight to four. How are you managing your operating in Loughlin? And so it's not really something that's not done around us. This is what it is. We have an extra hour. Yes, they can't, they have three more hours. But the idea is I can move hours up and down as long as I stay within that not hour shift. So I don't have to get into a double shifting for one day. And I respect that. But I do want to ask, you actually mentioned holidays. Which holidays is the landfill open? Because it was one of your slides. Yeah, pretty much all the holidays, right? Monica Gorman, she is my expert. I was going to say holidays. Thank you. Hello, Monica Gorman, Assistant Director of Public Works for Solid Waste. Of the observed county holidays, the landfill is open the majority of them. So we're closed, New Year's Day, Christmas Day, Thanksgiving Day, and Fourth of July. All right. Thank you very much. I can appreciate the hours and that you're trying to keep it to one shift. I would like to, and I'm flexible with maybe having longer hours Monday through five days. And then on Saturdays again, I know you wouldn't be mindful not having too many shifts. What would it look like if we had both Saturday and Sunday and perhaps, you know, an 8 to 12 or an 8 to 1? Because I, previously, when you guys were open on Sundays, I believe it was 8, around 8 to 12, it was not an all day shift, right? It was not all day. Yeah. All right, thank you. I am going to go to supervisor Wehr. Thank you, Madam Chiller's. First off, I'm going to associate myself with everything supervisor Vega said. But, and if you're going to tell me, it's going to cost us $4 million to open on Sunday on Sunday alone outside of the current schedule, I want to see some figures on that. I don't want to, I don't want to hear a quotation without some background, some supporting documentation for it. I'm a little irritated. I mean, we raised a solid waste fee two years ago. We added a tip fee, which actually serves as a sort of hidden tax to everybody, because that tip fee comes back to all the residents who have the who are using it a trash service. You know, to my view, this a lot of this comes as a result of your predecessor's operational landfill, which I wasn't happy with. And you know, we don't have the capital fund that we probably should have had for some practices that are no longer in place. That being said, we're talking about consistent increases for a service that people are getting less off. As it's been noted, the other counties may not have Sunday service, but we used to. Now I can't speak to them before the pandemic, but if we had it and they didn't, I mean this was a service that our residents became accustomed to. Will the haulers take advantage of Sunday? Who knows. I'm kind of curious how you determine that this will have a impact on a revenue from commercial haulers. I mean they're going to have the loads to dump anyway. So if we're recovering or forgetting revenue based on the number of loads and a tip fee, and their load number is not going to change, you know, absent going to some other county or some other facility, how are we going to be at risk of revenue loss? And maybe that is the case. But if it is, I'd kind of like to know that. So I'm not real happy. And then, you know, now we get this old ball field issue dropped on us. Here's the thing. If the old ball field pile is currently within regulatory compliance, Use the regular environmental aspect of it that needs to be addressed? If not, if we're just doing it to do it without any real attributable benefit, why would we drop $20 million on it and then to up a significant portion of phase four? I'm assuming because that's where it's going to have to go. I'm going to need a whole lot more information on that and what the impact is and what the impact of not doing it is prior to my buying off on a $20 million bill and that's it for the moment Madam Chair. That was a lot where there questions in there, where they were torquing. But I can just add a little bit to the last one regarding the battlefield and the battlefield. I've asked the same question. I mean, I came to public works 10 months ago and I said, if we're meeting, why are we doing this? We're doing this because it doesn't meet regulation of today. So there's a reason why regulation of today became regulations. It's because they prevent that kind of water and the material that comes out of the landfill into the ground plus the differential settlement at the entrance. When you drive the landfill and you go into the landfill, that wasn't by design. We're not trying to really create a hump. This was a settlement because of the trash underneath it. So that, and also just the thought of trash seeping into the underground. We haven't really done testing to see that that's an issue out there, and we can do that, and we will continue to do that. But again, this is something that we can talk about. It's not, it's really, I'm not asking for it to be budget. I'm just saying, showing that it's an area that needs to be cleaned, and it needs to be corrected, and above the side not to do that, because we are definitely grandfathered in that area. We don't have to do that. but we'll have to have data behind it to support that. Madam Chair, for my, I mean, and I guess that's sort of the point. Why even, shorter, But we'll have to have data behind it to support that. Madam Chair, from my, I mean, and I guess that's sort of the point. Why even show it it up there until you've done the testing? Because if the testing comes back negative, why would we do it? I mean, yeah, I get it, you know, we're not compliance with current regulations, but we're grandfathered, you know, my house probably isn't consistent with current building code, but I'm not going to rebuild the bloody house. I mean, there's a cost benefit analysis that needs to be done, and it doesn't appear that that's been done at this point. We'll do that. Madam Chair, I can. So I just want to make sure that we take note. So Kotab, based on the analysis that the team did, 2% of the users during the weekday are residents in the morning. In the morning. In the morning and 15% in the afternoon. Can't leave. Yes. So, 98% of the users during the week, Monday through Friday are commercial haulers and the morning. I. I was just keeping you the percentage of the residential. Now the percentage of the commercial I have, a separate separate set of information that you want that as well. Sure. Okay, for the commercials, six percent comes before seven and nine percent comes after four. Yeah. So that was thank you for that. And I wanted to make sure that that was sort of highlighted to really make sure that it was clear that the team, that these hours, this shift was not sort of random in terms of how the team recommended, and why the team recommended this nine-hour shift versus a six to three or a an eight to five. That said, if the board is interested in us coming back with additional recommendations, we're certainly happy to work the numbers and then bring that is the intent of this work session, right? To bring back an analysis of what it will cost for that additional second shift. What we are hearing from the team is that there will need to be a second shift based on the way that the shift schedule is designed. Yeah, because, I'm not exactly, even with the nine hours, folks arrived before and really leave after. So, we say nine but it's more like nine and half hour. And then also I just, in terms of the weekend and the way that the weekends are designed, what we see often and please feel free to kind of expound on this is that on Saturday and Sunday we are primarily not seeing commercial haulers. We're not seeing the routes for trash pickup being run by commercial haulers That's when we primarily see our residential users. So if you could just talk a bit about that and why I mean There's still some commercial on Saturday Sunday of course we've been closed so we don't have and talking to them from coordinating with them They usually do not have really Operations on Sunday unless there's an emergency, unless they were not able to pick up and I said that they may use that for a hospital, for something that's really with significance. But they usually do not, I mean, that's the rest day as they say. And I'll also add that, Kutab, you weighed in the entire team, you're having a active conversation with our haulers. If you could talk a bit about that and the fact that we will still continue to be open to suggestions from both the board and from the industry as we make a final recommendation. Sure, I mean, we've met with disgust and I think Wade is trying to schedule a second meeting this week, hopefully, to really come after we gave them the data that we have because they've asked for the data to see how the routes are and hear them out. And if they come back with something that requires some tweaks, some adjustment, we'll definitely talk to the can exec and Wade and see if that adjustments can make it if we are able To to to handle it through the the budget and without really increase to the fees because we don't have any Propose increases to the fees for this year Otherwise, we're gonna have to come back with some numbers and say you know, this is gonna require additional staff And really to find temporary staff or part-time staff who one day is not is not that easy. And again, the staff that we're hiring are really not later controlled. There are people that are very experienced. You know, they are heavy equipment operators. There are people that have certain certification and stuff like that. It's a safety, it's a work face that is really very dangerous. Up there, so you have to be really working with people that know exactly what they're doing. So, wait, see if I can write you ahead, somebody to say for Chris. Yeah, for the analysis portion, I'd also like to see the data from pre-pandemic operating hours, because what folks are saying is they want those hours, right, before COVID happened. That's all people are asking for. And so if we're talking about, you know, this, this existing data that you're referencing, Katab, I'd like to see that. I'd like to see, you know, the time frame and whatnot. But I also think it's equally important to have data from, you know, operating hours pre-pandemic. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Supervisor Bodhi, for your patience. No problem. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Katab, for the presentation. You're in your team for all the work you're doing. I know you've been like you said you since the moment you sort of took on the interim role and now that you're the full-on director this has been I'm sure so for the presentation. You're in your team for all the work you're doing. I know you've been, like you said, since the moment you sort of took on the interim role and now that you're the full on director, this has been, I'm sure, sort of top of mind for you. So I appreciate your effort so far. Thank you very much. I'm only going to spend a little time on this before I actually go to other parts of your presentation and your proposed budget here. So that all said, I know that this will probably become a little bit even more prevalent now that, you know, a lot more people are returning to work. And, you know, for a full work day versus, you know, before last month, essentially, right? So again, eight to four, a lot of people aren't going to be home by four o'clock in the afternoon to utilize the landfill. So I hope we can look at that piece of it too. Secondly, I would love to see if there's seasonal data, because I know Supervisor Vega alluded to it, but especially during the summer months, a lot more people are doing like spring cleaning, then there's summer pickups, they clean their houses a lot more, they're usually out and about a lot more to do certain things Have you looked at the seasonal usage and the data behind that? Nothing the numbers I gave you this is average for the entire year But we have all of that. Okay, I appreciate that because I see this is sort of a foundational steps for getting standard hours But I've hopefully at some point sort of flexing and having various hours depending on on the time of year frankly because Again, we want this to be we understand understand that the hauler sort of, the weekday foundation we should have this, but also it's a public facility for our public residents, right? So to me, our ideal, hopefully, is to go to a place where, we have hours that sort of jive with where people, and when people are to use it the most. So especially if we have seasonal hours, depending on times of the year, or just even select weekends that we know that people are going to be using the landfill. You know, I can think of after the Fourth of July day, weekend as one, labor day, those sort of key holidays that we know a lot of people generate a lot of trash over those days and are sort of key notepart of the summer, especially it would be good to get data around those times too. And so that's all I had on this piece. Wanted to talk to you a little bit about a couple of your budget initiatives for this year. One is the landfill gas collection system modifications. Does this have any synergy with the natural gas pipeline product that's been in the work for the past couple of years? No way. Yes, supervisor, body members of the board, you are correct. We are building additional piping systems, but also that expansion is a result of the new phase three, so we're building new cells. So as we build new cells we have to expand that gas collection system within each cell and it's particularly important now because of the natural gas facilities. Appreciate it. And I assume that especially as we start time out phase four it'll then need to be looked at again and sort of upgrade at that point too. Yes, that's correct. Appreciate that. And then another initiative that you have this year is Happy Equipment Purchase. And I know that's coming from the Solid Waste Fund is a general fund obligation. So two questions there. What is the life cycle of these equipment pieces? So, you have a track loader, a bulldozer, an excavator. What's the life cycle like for those? Typically for our construction equipment, I mean, it's well maintained and stuff like that. I would say five to seven years. Typically, it's based on hours. Yes. They usage of the equipment. You would worry. Sure. What do we do with the old ones with their sword at the end of life when we replace them? We do surplus Equipment so we sell it and then we put that money back into the solid waste fund to offset Equipment costs appreciate that And that's all I have madam chair. Thank you Right, so you, see if I have a gore. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Katab, for this presentation. I do think, based on everything, I think more data would help us. I just want to just say that up front. But I do want to kind of shift to the Balls Ford road facility. You know, Correct me if I'm wrong, the composting facility, is that still contracted out to a private entity? Yes. Okay, thank you. So the last few times I've been over there, I mean, just the composting continues to grow in terms of the mass of composting. Are we at any risk of that running out of space to continue to do what it's doing? Or are there enough leaving the site to manage what's going on? We have an area designated for that operation. They can go beyond that without really getting permission from us. And so I'm hoping that they'll be selling that, they'll be doing that of that, and knowing that that that is their space, and they can just encroach in our net. So they haven't, but right now, there's still enough space for them to continue to accumulate the waste in order to continue the compost thing for a while. Okay. I'm just worried we're gonna hit a wall. Sure at some point we're going to have to figure out what are we going to do with all this composition. Well definitely take that comment and look at it. Okay. It's just trying to manage that going forward. The in terms of you know on your second slide or first slide you talk about promote diversion and recycling. Can you speak to the recycling program? How well are we doing as a county? Here things that, well, things will go to recycling facility, but it ends up in the landfill anyway. What's the status? How are we doing? Is it making a difference? It definitely makes a difference. I mean, looking at the volume of material that went into the landfall in the past few years, it's going down, which tells me that some of that has been diverted, some of that has been recycled. Now, as the recycle, yes, they're all residues that sometimes come back to us and we have to put it in the fill. But is there improvement for that program in the future? I'm hoping so. And that's why we continue to promote that because definitely the more we take out of the landfill, the more area we have for waste for future years and stuff like that. So we will continue to promote that. It's doing better, but can it be better? Of course it can. Yes. And there was a few weeks ago we dealt with, I think, a grant to keep Prince William beautiful. And part of that program was recycling of styrofoam with education and information. And again, all we can do is just really educate and the restaurants. And so there's a regulation, all we can do is just educate on really the benefit of trying to save that, trying to remove that, use cardboard and stuff like that because of it. Yeah. Very good. I try to do my part to recycle, but there's still a lot of things that just go in the trash just because we're not recycling them. But it's good to know that the volume of trash going into the landfill is actually decreasing. And I think that's also a useful data point for us. And it's something that we ought to be touting. And that's a trend in our team, and Monica and her team are doing a great job making sure that we don't take out of County Waste and really making sure that the waste that comes to us is really trash because that's what we are regulated for Yeah, and again as I said the last time you were walking out the door. Thank you for also including balls road forward Facility as is opening up on Sunday because that's certainly going to benefit a lot of the community in Western Pennsylvania. Thank you. Supervisor. All right. Thank you. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Memchair. Mostly the questions I had mostly were what supervisor Bodie was asking about the maintenance and the preservation as we're going through, you know, readjusting and looking at FTEs and that kind of thing. So I think you've answered those questions, but the maintenance is so important in terms of longevity for the site. So, but the other question that I had is, when I looked at your schedule on page eight, my question, I'm sorry, page eight. Is that it? Eight? Eight. Where you were comparing with Loud and Stafford. Is there, is another element that you can add like late evenings or into the evenings because as people go back to work there might be opportunities they want to use the facility in the late evenings. How will that affect what you're trying to do? It's going to have to take full analysis because again the way the way we were able to save on cost by adding Sunday was to have that one shift for one day. And so the more hours you add, even if you add one more hour, we're still going to have to look at maybe end up with two shifts with an overlap in between which makes scheduling a little bit more difficult and costly. So that is really the only concern. So I have no problem if we could shift it from 7 to 8 and open until 5. So from 8 to 5. But then when I look at the numbers, that will take a significant percentage from commercial holders who are going to the field because, you know, and their routes and some of their concerns, their routes and you know they their stops and they have they calculate all of that you know by by the minute when they're gonna stop when they're gonna go to a second route so if they're gonna have to do two routes between the hours of seven and four they're gonna have to adjust their routing and that's the additional time that we're asking for for them to see if other if other otherolers or other trucks can accommodate that within those hours. When they do, when they take their trip, because their trip may be adjusted. So it still goes back to the data. Yes. Even if we get consultants in, it goes back to the data. And a lot of that really works with a consultant. So it wasn't like just me and Monica really. No, no, I know. Yeah, yeah. but it's still the data that we really, okay thank you thank you. Thank you. All right last So it wasn't like it just me and Monica. No, no, I know. Yeah, yeah, but it's still is the data that we really. Sure. OK, thank you. Thank you, Madam. All right. Last call, y'all. No one else? All right. Thank you so very much. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you for inviting us here. All right. We're going to move on to agenda item 12, agency time. Mr. Shorter. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. So for 12A, we're asking the board. Thank you. Madam Chair, members of the board. So for 12A, we're asking the board's consideration for a zoning map on the mission. I'm initiating a map of the amendment and I believe Director Washington is going to start us out for turning. Good afternoon, Madam Chair, members of the board, chair members of the board, Tony Washington, Plenty Director with the Planning Office. We are here today for two items. The first is a request to initiate a zoning map amendment. This is DPA 2025-0014, Minasus Business Park in a Brinxville District, and Eric Griffiths from our long-range planning division is here for the presentation. Good afternoon chair Defergent supervisors. Again air Griffiths from the Planning Office. As director was saying this before you in response to a directive that you made last, that the board made last year, essentially to bring to, before the board initiating a zoning map amendment to reclassify this area you see here on the left, is currently z plan business district to a one agriculture. And as far as some background on why this is being done, again, these four parcels were acquired by the American battlefield trust. And three of the parcels they purchased in 2019 and they were granted a gifted a fourth parcel. There is consists of about 152 acres. This land is part of the area that is considered the Bristol Station and Kettle Run battlefields. That area is basically on both sides of the Norfolk and Southern railroads that you see on the map here is Battlefield land. And what the ABT wants to do is they want to place this property under a conservation easement. And the likely easement holder will be the Virginia Department of Historic Resources. And EDHR has requested that the property be unencumbered by Prophers and back in 2008 when it was zoned planned business district there was a number of Prophers put into place in anticipation of a redevelopment that never happened so reclassifying back to A1 will essentially provide the opportunity to remove those properties and then move these easements forward. The map here is the existing land use map. You can see the area that we're talking about is parks and open space, again, conducive to an open space easement surrounding by that area surrounded by I-3 industrial and sea res and again the County of County registered historic site is the Kernet Kern Bristow Station battlefield park. The two maps here is existing zoning and proposed zoning on the left left is the existing zoning. On the right is the planned zoning. And as you can see, reclassifying back to A1 will make that area kind of consistent with surrounding zoning districts as well to the south. And staff is recommending that the board initiate to zoning map amendment DPA 2025-14 Minasus Business Park for the following reasons. These zoning map amendment will allow for the reclassify vacation to A1 agricrocero to remove the proffers as requested so that the property can be placed under a conservation or historic preservation easement. This effort will be consistent with efforts to preserve more of portions, additional portions of the Bristol Station and Kettle Run battlefields, and the zoning map amendment is consistent with general efforts for to protect Prince William County's significant cultural resources. And just as a reminder, the initiation does not mean the board must approve the zoning map amendment after it is studied. It just means it's the process for that consideration. And that's all I have for you. Thank you very much. We'll take your questions now. OK. Before we go on is there anything that I can't see it. Okay. Supervisor Gordy. No, I just thank you Madam Vice Chair. I just want to thank the staff for working with the American Battlefield Trust. You know, this has been a long time coming. A lot of work gone into getting these parcels protected, given the historic actions that took place there. And I just wanted to say thank you for this. And we've got a few more of these coming in this area. And so this is the first and we look forward to preserving a lot more of this battlefield and as we go forward over the next few years. So thank you. All right. I don't see anyone else in queue. So I believe we can go ahead and take the vote. Oh, we didn't have much of it. We had a motion Move, Madam Chair. Second. All right. That's okay. I still love you. All right. If there's no one else, let's go ahead and take the vote. Vote unanimous. All right. Thank you so very much. Mr. Shorter. Thank. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the Board. With item 12b, we'll have Director Washington again to talk a bit about the board, we're asking for the Board's consideration in the award of a rotational contract for on-call planning services. Good afternoon again Madam Chair, members of the board, Tony Washington, planning director with the planning office. We are here to request that the board award rotational task order contracts for on-call planning consultant services for the planning office. The planning office would like to establish as needed professional consulting services contracts for on-call planning consultant services for the planning office's projects. The most recent set of rotational contracts for the planning office for on-call services expired in FY22. Due to ongoing planning office projects and board directives, there is a need to secure a new set of on-call contracts to support our current and future projects. The county uses rotational task order contracts for architectural and engineering to perform designing consulting services on an as-nated basis. So I'm just gonna talk a bit about the process that we undertook for this effort. The county advertised a request for proposals for on-call A&E services for the planning office in nine expertise areas, which I will detail in a moment in July of last year. The objective of this RFP was to solicit proposals from a qualified pool of contractors for timely and efficient planning services, again on an as needed basis. The county established a competitive pool of consultants for nine areas of expertise to award up to three consultants per area of expertise. And then once these awards are awarded, we will then proceed on a task order basis for the individual projects. Each contract is written as a one-year contract with up to three one-year renewable options. And again, it's very helpful and very important for the planning office to have on-call consultants, to have a bench of on-call consultants because then we are able to move faster with a procuring consultant services for the variety of the work that we do, as opposed to having to do an individual procurement for each project. In terms of the fiscal impact, the cost of services will be determined as the project requirements become known and task orders are issued for a specific scope of work for specific projects. And the staff found that each of the selective firms cost proposals to have fair, reasonable and competitive rates for compensation for the services described in the contracts. And the board has a legal authority to award the contracts. So the staff, we had a staff selection committee that reviewed proposals from 20 firms and the following nine expertise areas. And one thing to note is that some firms submitted proposals for multiple expertise areas. We received 13 for community outreach, meeting facility and event services, 14 for a comprehensive planning and land use planning services, 8 for a cultural resources management, 5 for development review, 7 for land use ordinances and regulatory tools, 1 for noise studies and review, 12 for planning studies and analysis, eight for training for planning related topics, and 12 for urban design, design guidelines, and landscape architecture services. And then our staff, once we reviewed the initial set of proposals, we came up with a, or our staff evaluation panel came up with a short list of firms that we then invited for interviews where they gave presentations. We had Q&A and then requested cost proposals prior to selecting the recommendations that we're bringing to the board in terms of the awards. Staff recommends the board award rotational task order contracts to 11 firms for on-call A&E services for planning office projects. The recommended firms per expertise area are under community outreach meeting facility and events for can story and the clearing incorporate it for comprehensive planning and land use planning, AECOM, Michael Baker and Roadside in Harwell, under Cultural Resource Management Services, Meet and Hunt and New South Associates for Development Review, AECOM and WGI. Under land use ordinances and regulatory tools, AECOM and Michael Baker International, under noise studies and review, STAN Tech Consulting Services, also under Planes Studies and Analysis, STAN Tech, training for planning related topics, Michael Baker International, and then under Urban Design, Design Guidelines and Landcape Architecture, Land Collective, LLC, Michael Baker International and Smith Group. So that concludes our presentation, but the one thing I did want to note is that we do have a number of different types of consulting services related to the wide variety of work that the planning office does, and it was very important for us to be able to have a bench of on-call consultants across multiple expertise areas. It's very important to be able to have consultants who have a specific types of skills and specialized experience in projects depending upon the specific projects that we have. So definitely would like to thank the staff who served on the evaluation panels, the combination of planning office staff, as well as from transportation, who did the legwork to review and conduct the evaluation of all of these proposals. And with that, we again asked the board to award these on-call consulting contracts, and I'm happy to answer any questions. All right, supervisor Bailey. Wow, I was first in queue, I can't believe it. Tell you, thank you for your presentation. I am very excited about this because I just believe that it gives us a broader view, a broader vision as we're serving the community, the county. And so I think I know that the last contracts expired when about a year or two ago, but I think it's needed because we are growing. And so I think is this in tandem and I think I know the answer, but I just want to make sure this is in tandem also to add up a stronger season arm to plans but also to as we're hiring new staff as well It's in tandem with that to make sure that we're giving better quality correct? Yes, that's correct So one thing and I believe from our previous board session as provider Vega I think you've asked some questions about how we use consultants if I recall correctly and again You know this is intended consultants are very important They provide very specialized services that can help to augment the staff Expertise that we have as well as staff resources and one thing I will note is that for a number of the projects that the planning office has to do, for example, with new small area plans, with the zoning ordinance update, those are big projects. Even for a small area plan for my experience, you will have one person in a division who's a project manager, but even within the department, you will have a team of people supporting that effort along with consultants, who again, are tasked to bring very specialized expertise to help to support projects. So they do work hand in hand. Our efforts, you know, working with the board and with the county executive to expand our staffing. And again, we very much appreciate the additional FTEs. We received this fiscal year. That That helps to build our staffing complement, but we do still have a need for consulting services to assist us in being able to deliver the work that the board has asked us to do. So my second question is also, how does this work in tandem with the other agencies? Because I know this is something that our developmental services department said they'd be working with you as well. So can you describe that as well for us? Certainly. I'll give an example actually of a recent project where we had consulting services and we worked with a team across multiple departments and that was the Affordable Dwelling Unit ordinance. We did have a consultant that did assist with developing the initial draft of the ordinance. But all throughout the entire project, at least since I've been involved in it over the last year, we had a team of representatives from multiple departments who met weekly throughout the entire project to develop that draft ordinance. So that is certainly something that I have experienced in other projects that I've worked on where one department is still the lead, but because of the particular scope of that project, you will still need the assistance and participation of other departments in addition to the consultants. And the other thing I'd like to also note, that's beneficial whenever a department through the county gets a, I get some, a on-call consultant bench is that, that consulting services is available for other departments as well, because it's the county that's actually awarding to contract. So that's something else, which is this, you know, our department through the county being able to have these consultants on board means that other departments, if they have a need for them, can also look to this list to see if they would like to use these services. Thank you. Supervisor Vega. Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you, Tonya, for the presentation. I thank everybody on this day is and in chambers and we're going to be able to Thank you, Tanya, for the presentation. I thank everybody on this day is and in Chambers and watching at home knows how I feel about contractors. I think I've made that point very clear. Can you please tell me how much was used? You said that the contracts, that this needs to be renewed, yes? Correct? Yes. Okay, so how much was used last year? On consultants? I'd have to get that specific information to you. Do you have a ballpark? The only project, there were two projects, I believe that we use consulting services for at least over the last year. One was as part of the affordable dwelling unit ordinance and then also for the thoroughfare historic district overlay district effort. We have, we've been working with a consultant who's been working on the National Register in a state landmarks nomination process. I think those are the only two. Do you have a price? I can give you a second issue. Okay. I'd have to get back to you on how much we spent last year for the. I think he said he can answer it for the second project. Okay. But for the first one, the affordable domain or we have to get back to you on that. Good afternoon, Eric Griffiths, planning office. Since I'm a project manager for the thoroughfare, that we retained a consultant for the National Register to prepare a National Register nomination for that, and that was about, I think it was about $22,000. And we recently have expanded the study scope study scope to an additional, I think, by about an additional 4,000 to that. So it's about 20, right now 27,000 for that. Okay. Okay. Thank you for that. And so I guess I'm just a little concerned because in reading the staff report, so it's 2.5 million limit per project and a 10 million per year cap per contract. Why would we need such a large sum if based on the previous year it doesn't even come close to even being in the millions? Just give me one moment please. Those maximums are basic limits or maximums that we include for or that the county includes for all procurement. So it's specific to the planning office or to our projects It's across the board. Yes, okay, and then I guess the the last point I want to make Mr. shorter, you know the work that we do in the planning office It's repetitive work, right? We already knew similar to what the county attorney's office does Similar to what any any department does. At some point, I would like to see Prince William County hiring those subject matter experts so that we don't have to continue to waste thousands, millions of dollars on contractors. Because again, we already know the kind of work that we're going to do and having to rely, and I get it, sometimes it's going to be necessary. But it seems like it's a reoccurring theme here in the county and I would like to see us having a strong workforce that already has those talented subject matter experts be a part, a permanent part of the county, if that makes sense. I do have concerns, those are my personal reservations, but you know, you stating that the two and a half million limit per project and the 10 million per year cap is across the board. Ease is my concerns a little bit, but not really, but that's all I had, Madam Chair. Thank you. So, Vice President Bowdie. Madam Chair, if I can, just wanna make sure that I address. Wurly, give Director Washington the opportunity to address the expertise that we do have in house. I think what this provides is an opportunity to surge when we need to surge for specific directives and for activities that the board requests in that we need. But in terms of expertise, Director Washington, did you want to speak to this? Certainly. We have a lot of expertise, very experienced staff in the planning office, and that will continue to be the case, and that's what we look for when we do hiring. But again, I've worked on quite a number of planning projects, plans, planning initiative studies, where consultants have been involved, and they are very useful for multiple purposes. In some cases, it is too surge when, frankly, to get certain projects done, particularly within a time frame, especially if it's a big, big project, it requires a lot of hands. And so having consultants to help with that work is a part of it. The other piece of it, too, is that, know that, we certainly wanna have a lot of expertise in our staff, but there are times depending upon a specific project where we need expertise in a very specialized thing for a certain period of time and that's it. And so that's when having these on board, having an on call, bench of consultants is also helpful because you are going to them because they have very, very specialized expertise that you may not need all throughout the entire year. And then the other piece too, that's also beneficial for us, is that these are, I'm familiar with a number of these consultants having worked on other projects, not all of them, but quite a number of them. And a lot of these are national firms. They do projects throughout the entire country. And so they are actually bringing best practices from other projects that they've worked on similar to the ones that we are working on. So part of what we may be asking them is, you know, what are some best practices that you have applied or that you've learned in doing these types of projects that we could learn from that we could apply here. And thank you for that. I just want to be very clear. I never insinuated or intended to insinuate that we don't have a talented subject matter experts in the planning office. The point that I'm trying to make is the fact that data centers are not going anywhere, right? And oftentimes I've been told that we have to go outside because of noise, because of this request, that request, because we don't have the in-house talent and our expertise. Considering the fact that we have a lieu of data center applications in the works, that's the point that I'm trying to make. There are areas where we can bring in that expertise that we're currently lacking that is forcing us to go outside and spend thousands millions of dollars on consultants. I just say thank you. Thank you if there's nothing else and I'll go to supervisor Brody. Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you Miss Washington for the presentation for bringing this to us. I noted that in the staff report, you're sort of setting this up to be each contract is written as a one year contract up to three one year renewable options. As you sort of build this out and knowing that last time we had this kind of rotational set was 2022, it sounds like, are you gonna, are you starting to think of, when is a good time to sort of begin to rotate people out? Are you just gonna let them see how they go over three years and see what you're gonna do? Are you starting to begin thinking strategically around that? Well, before I get to that, in terms of what happens after the contracts are awarded, so within each expertise area, so for example, Carpians to Plenty and Land Use Pl Planning, whenever we have a new project that we would like to have a consultant on board, there is a rotational process there. So within the county's sort of procurement systems and operations, we don't just say, okay, I'm gonna pick this one. You, they go into their own rotation, whichever one comes at first, we decide it's at the one that we think will be the best fit for this project. If so, we move forward. If we think, hey, this other firm, that's under the same expertise area, maybe a better fit for this than, there's a process that we can go through with the procurement office to then move on to that. So that's just to select a firm to work with Desson's specific projects. I think in terms of your question, I'm really focused on getting the board's supports that we can get consultants because we have multiple projects for which we would need consulting assistants for right now. So I'm not at the point of thinking about sort of the next iteration. I'm just eager for us to get this assistance in place that we can continue to move forward with these projects. I appreciate that. And you sort of hit on my earlier concern without probably anticipating what you mentioned it that, you know, in most cases you have two or three to choose from. My biggest concern I think is expertise areas 6, 7, and 8 where there's only one I think and currently. So as you begin to build this argument, looking to add some to those expertise fields, or it's just because where they so rarely come up as issue areas that your office needs to bring contractors on that you only need, feel like you need one. I think in an instance, if we feel that we may need to look to other resources, that would be a conversation we would have forforce with the procurement office. But certainly with regards to specific consultants, I can tell you, my staff can tell you, I have a very high standard of what I expect from work quality, not just from our staff, but also from consultants. And so if there are any particular issues with consultants, there's a whole process that the county has in order to manage that type of relationship to make sure that we can get the high quality work that we expect for the resources that the county is spending. Appreciate that. And one final question in the comments. So as supervisor Vega noted that in the staff report, it says the T.O.s are limited to $2.5 million for each project with a cap of 10 million per contract. Knowing that we're in budget season right now, I didn't see an ask in the actual budget for this. So we're talking about this as sort of as directly moving forward. When were we looking at maybe funding this or how are we gonna fund it in the first year if we were gonna go about funding this for you? For us. So particular consulting services are built into the budgets for projects that we have already requested funding for or are requesting funding for. So for example, we have $500,000 in our budget this fiscal year for the zoning ordinance update. So that's the money that we would use. The funding we would use to pay for consulting services similarly to the sustainability and resilience integration into the comprehensive plan. So the game plan is if we're requesting that the board provide funding for specific planning projects and initiatives that's the funding that we will use to pay for consultants. Appreciate that. My last sort of comment is opposed to questions. Again, I appreciate this. I'm understand. Suarez Vega is sort of hesitant to see and skepticism of more and more consultants and contracts and what have you. I see this at least especially for her office is a net good because for me practically as a supervisor the one of the biggest thing that really one of my pet peeves is we issue directives in the past we get these things going and they sit on a shelf or we have have small airplanes as old as 2016. Or the rural preservation. You can, I can name tons of different initiatives that this board, either us, the previous board, even before that board has initiated, that either started and stopped or got put on a shelf. And I know that part of that has always been that sort of manpower conversation and some other things as well. So I see this is a practical strategic way of you being able to make sure that you keep things moving on time and being responsive not only to us but our residents too. Because I appreciate you have a specific area of expertise here for organizing outreach and that kind of stuff to make sure that the public is in well into these processes as well. Thank you Madam Chair. All right, so we're very sure we're. Thank you Madam Chair. I share Supervisor Vegas skepticism and many of Supervisor Votes concerns. But yeah, I can think of far more than just two contracts. I mean, noise, data center sighting, that sort of thing, you know, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars and we're over a variety of other ones. But I look at the list and I see the same old, same old consultants. And in many cases in the past, we've had issues with the results, the work product of those consultants and I've had complaints. In fact, I remember sitting on the sustainability commission and getting complaints that we weren't getting the A or the B team but we were getting the C or the D team because that's where we slotted in at the amount of money we were willing to pay the contract. I'm worried that there's going to be a considerable expense tied to these. you know, we've got a variety of things coming up and I get it. It's part of it. We'll allocated, you know, on a case by case basis. But I can see this, you know, especially when you talk about zoning ordinance rewrite small area plans. I can see these things rapidly adding up. But my real concern is this. If we're going to hire the consultants or we actually going to listen to the report and the results that they deliver to us because that has not happened in the past. I mean, Supervisor Bodie mentioned that we know of certain reports from one of those consultants that ended up in a pigeonhole for two years. Or that was changed because some board member told them to change it. And we're still fighting with the implications of, well, this came out on February 1st and this came out on February 24th, which one is valid, and how did they change between the two? So I'm not going to hang it up. I'm not going to vote no, but I'm skeptical, and I will be watching the contract costs. All right. I don't know if you have anything else, or if you want to respond to that. Again, I think it's important to note that I've been here for a year now, and certainly can't speak to what has happened in the past. But I have a lot of experience working with consultants on projects. And again, my biggest focus is making sure that we get high quality work from consultants. And so that is certainly something we will definitely be paying attention to. I definitely appreciate you sharing those concerns and that's something we would be mindful of. But again, I think for the planning office, in terms of current contracts, we have no current consulting contracts. The consultants who have been working with us over the last year, those were from the previous contracts. So it's really important for us in terms of moving forward with the variety of projects and initiatives that the board is asked us to do to have this assistance. But we are very mindful of the concerns that have been expressed. And we will definitely keep that in mind as we continue to work on these efforts. Madam Chair, I guess that's kind of my point. I mean, we know the public knows as as a result of FOIA a lot of people know you know there have been contracts issued with contractors whose contracts have expired so new day let's hope it's different than the past but I think some of us are going to be skeptical until we actually see the change. All right, thank you. Supervisor Bailey. I was just going to suggest what I appreciate so much about this item, Madam Chair, is that this is on call and we call these consultants in when we actually need them. So this is based on activity that the planning team is in need of, you know, sort of at the moment. So I certainly understand the concern and I think we all hear it and we will be monitoring closely as well. But I just wanted to remind the board that this item as it is coming to you for consideration as an on-call contract is one where it really is based on the planning staff's current activity in need. Yeah. Man, yes. Yes. Thank you so much. I had two things and certainly I think that that's why I'm excited about it because it is on calling. It's a bitch that we can lean on in the time when we need it. So I think we need to go back to that because of the growth that we're experiencing. But aside from that, my two questions are number one. You have mentioned several times you've had experience in engaging in this way. And we certainly appreciate that. But I just would like for you to also speak to the experience that you've gone through since you've been here at Prince William County because our needs are quite different from whence you come. Yes. Yes, and that's very much the case. What I was speaking to was really more sort of the client consultant sort of managing that relationship. But definitely you know over the time that I've been with the county I definitely appreciate the uniqueness or Prince William County. Yes and how as we say the least. I say that in a a positive way I receive it in a positive But that also means as we bring consultants on board We also have to make sure that they understand the uniqueness of Prince William County and make sure that we scope our Projects in a way so that the services that we request will be responsive to the particular needs of this county Thank you And the other thing that I wanted to just mention in reference to what my colleague had mentioned about in reference to data centers and the needs that we had in the past. Number six is absolutely essential. Noise studies and review, because as we do know, there are other opportunities with data centers in the hopper that we are currently working through. And so with that, I guess my question to that is that what we have learned and is that going to be, is that just a recommendation for that one entity or are there others that we may be able to explore in terms of the noise studies and review. Well certainly if the board awards this contract then we would have stand tack on board for noise studies and review but if there is if you know working through these cases if the county identifies the need for additional consulting assistance again that's a conversation that we can have with the county executive and with the procurement office and I say that Thank you Excuse me director watch it and I say that in reference to an element of trust and Where we've come from in terms of just really understanding data centers and what is needed? I think that might if the board approves this today But there are other opportunities to have more data, more precise data as we go forward. Thank you. All right. I don't have any other questions. Madam Chair. Oh, sir, Mr. President. I'd like to move 12 B forward. Second. All right. Annie, and thank you, Ms Miss Washington, for your presentation today. All right, does anyone have any comments, supervisor Bowdie? Thank you again, Miss Washington, for the presentation. I said, I understand all the concerns have been expressed today. I'm very optimistic about this, frankly. There's a lot of really, really cool things that your office is working on right now. A lot of it gets really nerdy. A lot of people don't even know what's going on. But things like form-based zoning, the zoning text or amendments. All the things that your office is doing, the smaller your plans. It's all really important stuff, especially us sitting here at this day But also frankly the future of the county so I'm hoping this will give you guys the injection of jet fuel that you'll need to tackle all of it in the years to come And I've basically get you to a point where we're able to flex into new things up future of the county. So I'm hoping this will give you guys the injection of jet fuel that you'll need to tackle all of it in the years to come. And basically get you to a point where you're able to flex into new things that I know we've talked about in the past. So I'm really hopeful that this gets you to where you need to be. So you're able to fully unlock the potential of your your department. Thank you Madam Chair. All right, I don't see anyone else. I do just want to say I want to actually thank your staff very much so for this weekend for the extra work that was done on Wellington Glen, which has now been deferred. And I really want to highlight in particular Alex Vanegas. And while this is not part of the need for a consultant, I have always told your team, I know you guys work very hard and I support additional staffing. But during recap, I am going to formally make a request that you hire another staffer for current planning, a senior staffer. Because I think that is something that is urgently needed. And again, your staff, you all work very hard. You have been a staff for quite a while. You came into a department when it was, when it had blood talent, you have worked hard to turn things around. But I want to make sure that you have additional staffing, even more so than what is on our budget. Because I recognize we are a growing county. We have put a lot on you and a lot on your department. So I just want to mention that. Thank you. We appreciate the support. All right, so there's no one else. Go ahead and take a vote. Vote unanimous on to Supervisor's time before we go around the days. There is one resolution in the point Nancy Veer's to the upper service authority, can I get a motion? So move them here. Second. All right, let's go ahead and take a vote on that. Vote unanimous. All right, thank you very much. I'm going to do things a little differently. So, vice-arvega, I'm going to let you go first. Fantastic. I have a notice of intent to appoint Cheryl Kenny to the IDA.. Her resume should be on file and that's all I have. I hope everybody else is as quick as I am. Unfortunately we won't be supervisor. I'm sorry y'all. I'm going to take a lot of time. Supervisor Franklin. Hello. I have a few more items but I'll make it very quick. On Wednesday I hosted our annual We're British District Black history event, our topic that we focused on was black professionals working in public safety and the law. We were joined by US District Judge Rossi Austin of the Eastern District of Virginia, Sheriff Glyn Hill, Lieutenant Asher Robinson of the police department, and our very own survivor, Victor Angry, great conversation. I will be sending a directive in the future, just re-upping about us kind of preserving African-American history here in the county. We had a dynamic discussion. It was two hours long, which you think is long. But when you have a legend like Sheriff Hill and Judge Austin, you need more time to get these individuals in a room, put a video in front of them and just let them tell their stories. So I'm going to re up the directive for us to focus a little bit more on that so we can really get our history documented. So thank you to those who participated. Very wonderful discussion. You can also find the recording of the video on our WebRage District YouTube channel apparently. On Thursday, February 27th, I also attended the Black History Month, Breakfast Sponsored by Senators Kane and Warner, along with Congressman Bobby Scott in Washington, DC. And also later, I attended the Princeland County Black History Month program at the Hilton Performing Arts Center. Thank you to the Black History Program Committee. Excellent event, always excellent, and had a very good time learning additional history that maybe didn't know before. So thank you to the county for that. Also, I was the keynote speaker at Freedom High School later that day for their Black History program, where I spoke about Marjorna as a public servant and as an elective representative. So thank you to Freedom High School Principal Smith and their sponsor, Deanna Forbes, for that invitation. Yesterday I toured the forensic lab from the Prince William County Police Department, one of the bigger things that we discussed was storage space for their videos as well as additional space for them to operate periods. So we had a very good discussion. If you didn't know we have one of the few expertise forensic lab system in the entire region. They get called by other jurisdictions to help out and they are also certified from the FBI and the CIA and Secret Service. We have a very good team up there. There's only a few of them, but they are very good. Just very quickly. This week I'll be attending the Prince William Water Invitational at Unity Reh High School. I will also on March 15th be participating in the commemoration of the life of Patriot William Grayson. I do this annually. He was a revolutionary war Patriot and one of our two US senators from Virginia and an active member of the Virginia committee of correspondence. So I will be participating in that again this year. On March 17th, I will participate in the 60th anniversary celebration of the Woodbridge Women's Club. And so we'll be again joined by them. on March 25th I will be hosting alongside Supervisor Bailey, our Women's History Program at the Filoso Building. We will be honoring several trailblazing women in our community and more information to come. I'll also be hosting in a affordable housing roundtable on the 23rd. We'll send more information about that. And then we will be doing dumpster day on May 31st at Fred Lim Middle School. Also just want to point out freedom high school, Girls Basketball Team. Their season ended in the playoffs, but I want to highlight Coach Mia Lloyd, who received Coach of the Year, as well as Lonnie Johnson, who received player of the year. So very proud of Freedom High School, and we'll continue to support them. Have a couple announcements, Parks and Recs, the conversion of two tent shelters to wooden shelters, a veterans park is complete. Also, ADA compliant parking space along Blackburn Road for access to the NIABSCO Boardwalk, receive the asphalt surface course installation last week. People really do ask us about this and pay our attention. So thank you for that. And then also at the NIABSCO Boardwalk, the kayak launch launch is now complete and we are planning a ribbon cutting for those projects where we will send more information. And then lastly, the contractor will remove trees before the end of March at the Featherstone Wildlife Refuge segment construction project. The Borowalk and Bridge Shop drawings have been reviewed and approved. So thank you to Parks and Recks and Transportation others involved in those projects and with that you'll. All right you get 33 seconds all right. Mr. Gourdy, Supervisor Gourdy. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, they added the pleasure of receiving a briefing and tour at the General Dynamics Progyny offices. Progyny was founded in Prince William County as a small business over nearly 25 years ago. And today they now have over 300 high paying jobs in Greater Prince William. They are currently expanding operations and building a third facility and will bring another 150 new jobs to the county in Greater Prince William this spring. So I want to congratulate the progeny team on their tremendous success and we look forward to their continued growth and support of our national defense. Very excited about tomorrow with the ULI tap. I'm looking forward to that getting started and seeing what the recommendations coming out of that program will be and working with my colleagues on that plan going forward. Yes, Supervisor Vega, we'll be working with, it'll be a partnership. This week, past weekend, began the season of Ramadan for our Islamic neighbors and I just want to wish them all in easy fast. This evening, three high basketball teams from the Brentsville District will be playing in the state quarter finals. The Patriot boys, Brentsville girls and Gainesville girls and I want to wish them much success for victory tonight in their matchups. I also saw on the news that two Prince William County young men earned their Eagle Scout badge. Donovan Jimenez and Luke Brakenberry with the Dell City Scout Troop 1919. I want to congratulate these two young men for both earning and achieving such an honor. And they will be honored for this on March 12th at VFW Post 1503. I want to point this out because the, the last couple of years, it's the VFWs, the firehouses, churches and other organizations have stepped up to become sponsors for our scouting organizations. I think COVID kind of messed things up when they were working and sponsored by the school system. And so now that they've been able to land in other places. And so really appreciate the community organizations for stepping up to support our scouts in Prince William County. And lastly, I just want to note that today is Mardi Gras, otherwise known as Fat Tuesday. And that means tomorrow is Ash Wednesday in the beginning of the Lenten season, which will proceed until Easter Sunday on April 20th. And to our county residents who will be participating in Lent, I pray you're fast and remember it's of Jesus Christ sacrifice draws you into closer relationship in both likeness and personal relationship. Now you'll back, Madam Chair. Okay, we're not on the hell, yo, but okay, all the healing. Supervisor, angry, I'm gonna go to you next. Oh wow, thanks. So congratulations to the county for putting on a great Black History Month program that the healing performing artist, that was really good performance. Now it's gonna let elementary school career day, great job there, a lot of folks came out, including the chair. We had a great time with all of the kids. So thank you for inviting us, great performance. VW just hosted their first women's small business expo. Great turnout, failed the room. So congratulations on a great performance there. And then just upcoming this Saturday, you know, know old old town Manassas there are 25th annual Saint Patrick's Day parade at Manassas Park so come on out and join us that kicks off at 11 o'clock thank you manager thank you for not yielding supervise a body thank you madam chair just a few things from me Wednesday of last week I got a chance to have my sort of annual meeting on the Occoquan Greenway with LRPRA. We've started doing this sort of yearly thing. We meet at their clubhouse to talk about the progress of the greenway. Went a lot of great things to share this year. You know we had the bridge put in two years ago. We have two bridges coming in this year, substantial completion of very large segments of the trail will be coming through in the next couple years. So really excited to see that project continue to move forward. Also had our monthly Metropolitan Washington Air Quality Committee meeting last week on Wednesday. Always happy to sit down with our regional colleagues to talk about air quality issues and what we're doing to keep going the ball forward there. Evening of the Wednesday the 26th, I had a chance to pop over to Banassas Park City Hall for the Route 20 Innovative Intersection Design Public Hearing. That is a B.Dots led project, but it's in consultation with our folks. I Danica Rome was there, some other folks were there, other elected officials. A lot of obvious interests around 28. So always happy to talk to folks about what's going on down there and what we plan to do moving forward to help alleviate traffic issues in that corridor as well. On Thursday, I spent most of the day last week on the Hill actually in D.C. I went to the 2025 Commonwealth Black History Month events hosted by Senator, hosted by Senator's Cain and Warner. Always great time there. Then later on that day I actually got a chance to speak on a panel that was hosted by the National Association for County Community and Economic Development. We talked a lot about the home program, this is a matter of the federal government and all the great things that localities are able to do with those funds and those programs. I know that we use a predominant amount of our funds for our first time home buyers program but it's's always great to learn throughout the country while other folks are doing with it. They're doing things like using it to layer with their affordable dwelling unit ordinances and their LI-TEP programs and other funding mechanisms as another layer to get that gap financing done. So always great to share values and ideas around that. And I always enjoy sitting around with a bunch of housing nerds. So that was a great time, just from that perspective as well. Thursday night, I got to speak speaking of scouts at the Boy Scouts of America web loss. That was actually three different scouts, troops I got a chance to talk to. Two of them were doing their citizenship badge. So that's the one we have to talk to, elected official or a politician about what they're up to and what not. Another troop was there, needed to talk to me about elections. Always great to talk to different scout troops. I will always say one of the best things I love about this job is getting a chance to talk to young people here, their ideas, their vision, and the questions they ask. They always ask really, really great questions whenever I go. And their parents often jump into, especially when you start talking about taxes and transportation. So that's always a fun time. Last but not least, actually that might be it, but let me just make sure. Oh, yes. Certainly last but not least. Actually that might be it, but let me just make sure. Oh yes, certainly last but not least, I popped up, I popped on my feed the other day, but I noticed that our county executive has launched a new initiative called shorter talks. I thought you might talk about during the county executive time, but he did not, so I'll give him the pleasure of talking about it. At some point, it was a really great flagship first talk he had. He spoke about the crisis response system. And I'll let him share it another time, but he interviewed Heather Baxter, our behavioral health system program manager with community services. And I look forward to those little digestible bits of really talking to some of the best, the best that our county has to offer looking forward to tuning in for some more. Thank you Madam Chair. Supervisor Weir. Thank you Madam Chair. I too will be at the Sudley Road corridor studies Wednesday and Thursday, I believe. Probably my office will be there too. too, so if anybody wants any input on that or feedback on that, please give me a call. I'm gonna pass out to the board, a page out of the Henrico County budget. You guys know I'm a budget nerd, I look at a lot of other jurisdictions budget and we've been talking about decoupling the C&P tax for data centers well Henrico was doing that with their nascent Data Center development. They're not getting very much money from the data centers this year or they're not projecting very much like 13 puts 6 million dollars but they actually have a slide in their budget presentation and it delineates how much of the data center money is coming in and how that's going to offset. And I can list these off a personal property reduction and a real estate tax reduction for all the residents in the county, as well as a total tax relief of $18.3 million. Food for Thought for the Finance Department, With respect to the delta between data center taxes and any lowering of the personal property tax and how that might be, how the delta might be used to reduce the, either the real estate tax or the personal property tax. Last thing I've got is, without objection, I do have one short directive that I've worked on with both County Attorney and the County exec as town residents are also county residents in pay county taxes. Without objection I'd like to direct staff to review the memorandum of agreement between the Prince William County police department and the incorporated towns of Prince William County regarding the use of the Mike Pennington scenario based training center. I'd like staff to provide information regarding the use of the facility by the towns and an option to amend the agreements such that the county would absorb the facility use costs for the town as part of the police department's proposed budget. Staffs could staff should include in their consideration the terms and benefits of the county of all mutual aid agreements and it into between the Prince William County Police Department and the incorporated towns of Prince William County. The information should be provided to the board and memorandum. The County Attorney's Office is directed to review county staff's information and recommendations for any legal issues. And that's all I've got. Thank you so very much. Vice Chair Bailey. I'll just take that back. No, I'm just kidding. Thank you Madam Chair. Um. Vice Chair Bailey. Oh, it's my turn. Take that back. No, I'm just kidding. Thank you Madam Chair. Well, good afternoon everyone. I had a wonderful time on February 26th with the Del City Elementary School Black History Months program where I had, thanks for the first time, where I had the fun with Mayor Wood, Derek Wood, with the kids, kindergarten to third grade, imagine that. And then on February 26th, our Chair Jefferson's Town Hall, thank you for your invitation. It was very informative and very cozy and I appreciate your support. And then on the 27th, at the Commonwealth Coffee for Black History Month with Senator Warner and Kane, that was equally exciting to share with my colleagues. It was a great time, they do it every year and so I really, really appreciate that. Also on the 27th, congratulations to the Black History and the Mass Program for our county. I missed it, but congratulations. I heard it was fabulous. My staff attended. On the 27th, okay, what is this? I'll have the opportunity to support Madam Chair at the annual Chamber of Business, annual Chamber of Business Awards dinner. It was fabulous. And congratulations to the Spring Hail Suites, Potomac Mills recipient who supported us with the Sohan Cup. And I really appreciate the partnership. We all appreciate the partnership. Then on the 28th, I sat with again, Mayor Wood, and delegate candy king and our own Dr. Lattoniumig Day Superintendent of Schools for a Black History Month program under the theme of representation matters. And we had an audience of high school juniors and seniors of about 300 young folk and they had some great questions and they were engaged. The 28th, I had the opportunity of supporting Project Mental House assisting living at the tribute at the Glen here locally and in your district Kenny and they had their annual fundraiser and Gala, if you will. It was really a lot of fun being a board member emeritus. I really appreciate the work that they're doing for our senior citizens and the community. On the first of March, I attended the innovate to elevate women's conference that was provided by the Northern Virginia Black Chamber. It was excellent, it was well attended, and it was just engaging to see how our small businesses are serving in our region, from a regional perspective. As County exec has mentioned, the state of the parks address will happen on the 6th of March. I will be attending that and will be at the Forest Park High School in my district. I'm excited about that. And then on the 25th, I'm excited about participating in Supervisor Franklin for Women's History Month. As we always do since we've been in the office, so I really appreciate that. In closing, I'd like to provide a notice of intent for Mr. George T. Stewart, and I think you have his, okay, you got the resume for the Board of Equalization. And I just want to end with this to all of those facing tough times right now. Please know that you're not alone. You're a Board of County Supervisors right there with you At small acts of resilience, the moments of kindness, and the strength you may not be even realizing at this time. But we are right there with you. Know that this PWC board is praying for you and supporting you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you so much. Before I officially start, my supervisor's time. We do have a little bit of board business we have to take care of and that is setting our tax rates. As we all know, you know, we can always go lower but we cannot go higher than what we set. So with that, and I, you know, we're going to have a little bit of discussion around this, it is my desire to discuss raising the CNP tax rate and go with a higher rate for that. Personally, I would like to look at how the discussions would lowering the personal property tax rate. Personally, I recommend that the other taxes that we have are property tax rate, are personal property tax rate, are fire lovey, mosquito, and solid waste. You know, I would like to advertise those at the current rates. We can always go lower and from some of them I really would like to go lower after we have a thorough discussion. But I want to see if anyone had any questions, comments and concerns. Because today is the day supervisor voting and then we're. Thank you Madam Chair. I agree that what's been most flexible for us in the past is to advertise them high and then that recap, see where we are with updated projections that go lower at that time. I would be comfortable with us raising the CMP for data centers specifically to 415. I would also like to know when we've had the discussion, the data center tax, the CMP tax has been decoupled from the CAR tax. So we can actually set different rates for them. Supervisor Weir? Thank you Madam Chair. A couple of things. Yes, I'm in favor of decoupling the CMP. But like I just said, in the budget presentation from Henrico, you know, they're sort of making plans with how to do with it and how to grant the tax relief. It's worth noting though that many jurisdictions haven't even received their budgets yet. I cannot go along with the proposed rate for real property in any event. I've looked at the budget, I've got some serious questions about the size of the budget, the size of the transfer, and I think that absent setting the bar a little bit lower, or setting ourselves up to simply pass a significant tax increase tax increase on the residents. We can veil it or shroud it in any manner of explanations with we dropped the rate we did this, we did depth to the end of the day it's the actual tax paid so I cannot support the current rates at least on the real estate tax. second could probably do what on everything else. But if you want to, you know, separate the question, divide the question and do real estate tax separately, that's fine with me. Civilized recording. Just a quick question. If we wanted to also consider reducing the mills tax, is that something that we also have to. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do that. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do that. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do that. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do that. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do that. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do that. I'm not sure if you're going to be Everyone disappeared for a second. Okay, Vega, was there someone else in queue because Mike's screen had cleared? I'm real quick. I support with supervisor Weir said I'd like for us to break up the proposals and vote on those separately. All right, that's fair. We are going to be doing, I believe, what I'm really quick. I support with supervisor we're said I'd like for us to break up the proposals and vote on those separately. All right that's fair we are going to be doing I believe what it is a straw poll for today yes so that we're going to do a straw poll again just for advertising purposes so really quickly I'm going to go through we're going to talk about property car tech CNP fire mosquito cell waste um we I'm actually going to do a straw poll and then advertise I thought we had to we I thought we had to vote on that by other than straw poll. It's got to be recorded vote correct. It doesn't have to be. To set the rate. We're advertising. We're advertising. Yes, this is just for the advertised rate. I'd prefer a recorded vote. I don't, I'm going to look at, there is no, I'm going to, Madam County Attorney, do we need a recorded vote for, because I don't think we did this last year. Madam Chair, members of the board, the County Executive Needs Direction from the Board as to how to proceed with advertising in the rates. It can be done by a recorded vote, or it can be done by a straw vote. he just needs to be clear as to what the board's direction is as to how to advertise the rates. And then when it comes back for the public hearing, then vote or it can be done by a straw vote, he just needs to be clear as to what the board's direction is as to how to advertise the rates. And then when it comes back for the public hearing, then the board has to take an adopted vote on that. So we're going to go ahead and just do a straw poll. And I'm going to, let's talk about CMP rate before we go down the list. Again, it's my recommendation, except for CMP, that we advertise the current rate. Does anyone have any suggestions for C&P to advertise? I know to bring us in line with other jurisdictions. I think that Loudon is at 415. And I think that Loudon is at 415, and I think Falkier is as well. I don't obviously realize our Franklin. Sure, just for clarification, I don't mind increasing CNP as an impact's data centers, but in separating and out, will it impact other businesses, other types of businesses? Okay, because I still want to have that discussion at some point, again, don't mind for that, it's because they can afford it, but these other businesses are the ones. I think we have like over 500 that will be impacted by the tax rate. So we really do need to figure out how we can help those businesses out who are not the mega businesses. And I have certainly opened the discussion. We can talk to you to get some additional, sorry, did you have anything to show it on that? I was only going to just suggest that we can, during the presentation on the revenue, in what two weeks we can come back and have the discussion about the other businesses outside of data centers that might be impacted by, and it just to not derail the conversation that we're having today. I appreciate that, Supervisor Bailey. No, Mentor, I think the county effect just answered my question. All right, thank you very much. So for CNP, again again, I don't know if you had anything. Mr. Surveyser-Body. All right, 415. All right, so I'm going to go down the line. Again, Strava, just so we can give direction. Property tax, leaving it at its current rate. How do you stand on that supervisor Bailey? Yes. All right. I believe supervisor, where are you in now? Property. Bode? Yes, we're talking about real estate property. Real estate, yes. OK. Vega? No. Franklin? We're talking about property. Real property.. Yes. All right. Gordy. So I just want to make sure so we're advertising the max rate which is the current rate which we can then push down. Yes sir. I absolutely support pushing it down. Okay. In order to provide relief to our our community but so I just look forward to the discussion and while I do not support the current rate, you know, I can support advertising the current rate and then working it down from there. All right, and I support advertising the current rate. So we will advertise the current rate for property. The car tax, that is the personal property tax, the dreaded car tax, which I just paid the other day because I got another car All right, so supervisor Bailey do you support advertising it is a current rate? Yes supervisor we are No, if we are going to De-couple from C&P We are going to need a couple from CMP. Um, we are going to deed couple from CMP, but on the say no, I know. Supervisor Bowie, and that's a current rear 370. Yes, sir. All right, supervisor, um, angry. Can I explain a little bit, but I'm going to say no, because I'm forward decoupling the car from the CMP and not four ways in the CP, I am working out a way to lower the car tax. And that is fine, but this is just advertising purposes. All right, so, and then supervisor Vega. No. Okay, and then Franklin. For property tax, yes. We are talking about the personal property, yes. I just call it personal property as it is the car tax. All right. And supervisor Gourdy. So do you guys have another rate you would like to advertise? I can come up with any number you want. Well, I mean we got some three. We got it. So we don't have another rate. So here it, before? Until we get the delta of what the additional revenues from raising the CNP taxes, I don't think we can even have the discussion. So, and that's why I'm saying, let's advertise what we are currently at. So you're, I'm sorry, supervisor, angry is now a yes, supervisor, Gordy. Yes. All right, so we are going to go ahead and advertise the current rate for the car tax CNP tax $4.15 was put on the table I Don't know we talked about what it was going to be. I don't know if anyone has any questions supervisor Vega Okay, cuz you look like you ready. I'm a yes All right, because it's's supervised vice share Bailey CMP. Yeah, that's you for 15. How do you feel CMP? Supervisor we're Civilized their booty Angry Vega yes Franklin Gordy All right, we are going to advertise the four dollars and 15 cents for CMP fire This is for the current rate I'm gonna do fire mosquito solid waste, you know, I don't know if anyone wants to break any of these out. How do you feel supervisor? all right We're As I said last week I still want to roll them into a one thing one thing no Okay, you are a no Bodey Angry Vega Franklin Gordy All right, so we are going to advertise fire mosquito and sound waste at the current rates again We can all go down and I have a feeling and I've said this the car tax that is something I think that we should look at Some kind of relief and we'll see what we can do with the residential tax rate as well Because these are tough times for people and going into that I have the pleasure of speaking and attending Congressman supermanians town hall these week Thursday and that's something that came up You know we know I'm sorry Did you have a quick question to raise, Franklin? About CMP, but I'll go out here. No, I would rather you go ahead. So I know we're going to talk about this moving forward, but obviously we're doing a straw poll now. I support the 415 again for data centers, but I'm assuming, and this may be for Michelle Robor-Achri, we don't have the authority to separate out for CMP like other businesses outside of data. That's correct, as in we cannot separate out. That is correct, we can't single out businesses or in any way when it comes to taxes. So I don't think we have the authority to do so, but Michelle, you want to? While you can adopt a separate rate for CMP, the data centers have the option to file under the other category. So if you set a higher rate for CMP, they could choose to file under the computer and peripheral in a business because they also meet that definition. Okay, all right, thank you. And I'm sorry, that's going to require Michelle. Michelle, Michelle, back to the mic. Back to the mic. Thank you very much, ma'am. I just wanted to understand, you know, is there a way that we can prevent that? Or what's that assembly legislative change? All right. That seems to be an answer for a lot of things. Supervisor, I'm sorry. Did you have something? I was just going to add Madam Chair, members of the board. The Virginia Code currently states that if property can be classified in two different categories, it has to be done in the lower one. And so these, the computers and peripherals for data centers could be in the regular or in the data center and therefore you would have to adjust both if you want to hit that. And it would hit other businesses, their computer and peripheral. That is an important distinction. And I do think that when we have the discussions on this, it is worth clarifying, but again. Do we need to, because we've set the rate, we've agreed for 415 for CNP, do we need to set another rate for other businesses, can I turn it now. No, we're good. Madam Chair, the rate would be for all computers and peripherals for all businesses. Yes. And then as you've stated, you can come lower, you just can't go higher than what you set the rate at unless you do another public hearing. Supervisor Ray. I think the county attorney just answered my question. We just voted to elevate it to 415. Advertise. Advertise, that's what I said, elevate it. have to advertise. But we can go lower if we decide. Okay. Just clarity. And Mr. Shorter came to me. There are a couple other things that we need to advertise for. Stormwater and forest pests. We need to advertise the rates for those. I suggest, again, leaving them as is. I around supervisor Bailey. Supervisor Weir. Supervisor Bode. Hi. Supervisor Vega. Supervisor Franklin. Supervisor Gordy. All right I agree. I'm sorry what? Oh Vic. Supervisor Angry right. I am so sorry. Good sir. So we are going to go ahead and advertise stormwater and forest pests as is. All right. I think we're all good before I go back. Mayor County attorney, do we have to advertise the other rates, inspections and such as well? Does that require a motion? Madam Chair Mr. Shorter the stormwater fee. I want to just maybe Dave have you come up to the podium There's a 3% increase average that we Presented as part of the budget slides. I just want to make sure that we get that right. I apologize. Thank you. Yep. Yes, that is correct. The county executives proposed budget is based on stormwater fee rates that represent a 3% increase compared to the current fiscal year and fiscal 25. The proposed budget also has smaller increases to, I believe, land development fees. That would be advertised as well. That is a complete schedule, excuse me. And yeah. Yeah, it would be helpful unless there are concerns for us to get board direction on all of the recommended county executive recommended fee and the fee schedule. That way we are clear with what was presented. And now the fee schedule, the planning fee schedule, I believe I did not recognize, you know, we have discussed the other fees, or most of the other fees. That is something you're saying you need for and this is something because I don't know if everyone's had a chance to look at that. Do we need to do that tonight? I don't think so. We don't necessarily need the development fees. Dave help me with this one. We typically do advertise the development fee schedules. That is not something the board necessarily has to take up tonight. That can be advertised later on. But you've given us good direction today. So then for the stormwater, that is a 3% increase which means I'm going to go around the horn again. So for the eye-opologize for stormwater, that includes a 3% increase. Supervisor Bailey, are you? Supervisor Weir? Supervisor Bode. Supervisor Angry. Supervisor Vega. Supervisor Franklin. Supervisor Gordy. I am a yes, so we will go with the stormwater fee with a 30% increase and again everything can go down. Anything else? All right. Thank you so very much. Sorry. Supervisor Bailey. So, I think to supervisor Weir's point, so again, having the board say based on the presentation, the budget presentation that was provided, the fee schedule. So development services and others, I want to make sure that we get a of the board saying yes we can move forward with that. All right based on an apology supervisor Bailey unless you have a question related to that. I have a statement or the gentleman. Are y'all done? Okay thank you. I just wanted them to get that thought out because I knew it was relevant. relevant, but I just want just for clarity for public say this is an advertisement only. This is not the final. This is an advertisement only. We are required to advertise. There's going to be a lot of horse trading, arm wrestling, mud slinging, cupcakes, I don't know. We're going to have a lot of discussions. And I do want to make that clear. We're going to have a lot of discussions. What we said tonight may not be what we do. I personally, and I've said this luncheon, like advertising at the highest rate to give us flexibility. I see this as a place that it is our ceiling. We can always go lower. And I'm sorry, Supervisor Shorter, you had given a language. Based on the budget, I'm sorry, Supervisor. I don't know. I'm sorry, supervisor, shorter, you had given a language based on the budget. I'm sorry, supervisor. I don't know if that's an insult or a compliment promotion, emotion, emotion. Yeah, I don't know. I apologize, but I'm trying to do lifestyle. I mean, lifestyle change. All right. So I'm sorry. County executive. Yes. So what we did last year, if I remember correctly, the board just indicated it's comfort with the budget presentation and the fees associated and really gave a straw poll on that. So that way we can make sure that we are covered for all of the fees that were listed in the budget presentation. All right. Thank you so very much. I apologize for the insult. I don't know. Again. All right. So I'm just going to quickly do that to make sure we cover all our bases. And next year I'm going to have a long laundry list. I don't feel like I went through it last year, but I next year I'll have a long laundry list. I already notified my team. So based on the budget presentation as presented I'm in the fees associated are you comfortable with advertising that supervisor Bailey? Yes, supervisor we're supervisor Bodie Survivor angry supervisor Vega Survivor Franklin, survivor Gordy All right, I will say yes I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm not sure if you can see it. I'm not sure if you can see it. from Congressman Siromanium. It was a great town hall. One of the things that I spoke about was federal resources. And I made sure my team, thank you very much, for making up a flyer that we were able to hand out to people. Using the resources that we have put together that our communication team has put together, thank you, the supervisor, angry for mentioning that. But we handed out that resource page. And one of the things that it made me think about is that there is a strong need for contingency planning. We don't know what's going to happen at the federal level. 12 percent of our work force are federal workers. And that is a discussion we're going to need to have during budget season. Okay, guys, local government day, if you have a middle school or no middle schooler, The local government day is an event and I'm posting for kids six through grade six through eight. It is on Saturday, March 15 at three o'clock and board chambers. It's really to introduce middle school kids because they're sure to kind of think about what they want to do when they grow up, introducing them to public service. Now I have more fun things to discuss for us to arm wrestle over. And I do have a directive regarding the Affordable Dwelling Unit ordinance. You know, I understand the importance to a community. You know, and I do think that this is something that should be shared in timely manner. However, I think most of us, or hopefully all of us would agree that we would rather rather move forward with this important ordinance under Virginia Code Section 15.2-2304, which would provide greater flexibility for us to accomplish our goals. We all know that until Virginia Code is changed, we do not have the legal authority to proceed with that option. When we last discussed this issue, it was before we knew whether the general assembly would approve legislation giving us that authority. option. When we last discussed this issue, it was before we knew whether the general assembly would approve legislation giving us that authority. Because there are so many variables and unknowns, when we last discussed this issue, the board determined to proceed with the draft ordinance pursuant to Virginia Code section 15.2-2305.1. We now know that The General Assembly has passed legislation that would give us the authority to utilize 15.2-2304. We are closer to knowing whether we will gain this legal authority. This is such an important ordinance that I would like to make sure that we get it right and not spend time and effort by this board of planning commission, county staff and the community on an ordinance that we may end up changing or amending. We should know on April 2nd when the General Assembly reconvenes for the veto session, whether we will have this authority. April 2nd is not that far off, just three weeks after the proposed planning commission public caring. And I'm doing this because we do have a planning, again, commission meeting next Wednesday and they're going to talk about this and I would rather honestly that they hold off and I have spoken with delegate Hanson about his bill. I appreciate the considerable time and effort that he has put into it and you know we're actually taking a slot. They had 15 bills they could introduce this year. We're taking a slot. And I don't want us to go forth with something and necessarily change it much. You know, I just want to see where we are with his bill and other similar bills. So therefore, without objection, I would like for the county staff to temporarily pause action regarding Zoni text amendment DPA 2 0 2 2 dash 0 0 3 comma a or sorry the affordable dwelling unit ordinance AFDU Including a planning commission public hearing and report back to the board on its April 18th meeting regarding the legislation. At that time the board can provide staff with further direction regarding the AFDU. Madam Chair. Supervisor Vega. Thank you. For the sake of consistency I'm going to abstain. We as a board had agreed that prior to issuing directives we would email them to each other other that they'd be vetted through the county attorney and through the county executive. And while I do notice that a notification came in not too long ago about you sending it via email to the board, again, for the sake of consistency, I don't find it appropriate if we're going to adhere to our rules, we have to follow them. That's the reason why we established them. And so for those reasons, I'm going to be objecting. And I appreciate that. I would like everyone to know that the county attorney and the county executive have reviewed this, but I do appreciate that. And I respect that. Supervisor Franklin. Sure. Yeah. Thank you for that. And I know you share the same support for affordable housing, certainly as I do Obviously, you know, this is new to me as well in terms of the directive and we like to have more discussion around it. And so, you know, obviously I would rather not pause it but could be open to, you know, deferring it so we can have a more robust discussion. But if we move forward with pausing, it's not something that I can support today. But again, we'd love to have this discussion kind of generally. And so I think this is a great time to do it, honestly, because I just want us to temporarily get literally hit the pause button on what is we're doing. See what the general assembly does. See what the governor or see what the governor does. And at that time, you know, make a decision. Do we switch gears and go to 23 or 4, or do we continue with what we're doing? Again, I just want to make sure, because it is coming, the reason I'm doing this, and I apologize, is coming to the Planning Commission next week. I I don't know if I want them to have time, or I don't want them to debate this or discuss this until we have further information. So that's where I'm operating coming from. Sure, and I would like to just say, you know, and you're aware of this, we've been working on this for years at this point. And I don't think that, I don't think think there is a it's bad to continue to work in tandem on this as we wait to see I also just kind of have a general belief of not waiting on the general similar of the governor or Congress for that matter because you never know what's gonna happen and so this is something that we've been working on for a while now, and to pause it. I think that there will be some unfortunate and unintended consequences of that, particularly as it relates to staff having the ability to continue to do the work that they've been doing literally for years now. I will also say that while the governor, while the bill that the governor, that's on the governor's desk provides flexibility, we still have parts of our ordinance that deals with incentives, deals with other things that I think we need to allow staff to continue to work on. So again, I can't support moving forward with pausing it, but again, we'll love to continue this conversation. All right, supervisor Bodhi. Thank you, Madam Chair. And so my concern with this actually falls into both of the buckets that we're just mentioned by both Sue Reserviga and Sue Reserv Franklin. One, the procedural issue. It's in our rules procedure. We're so suspended out. Well, I had the board meeting, so people have time to look at it. Understanding that you didn't have as much time, I see sitting directives out of, frankly, while we're sitting here at the DAIS, as an emergent nature, I'm trying to get from where you're sitting, you know, the fact that the planning commission is gonna be talking about it next week is emergent to me. It's not, because to me, I know there's a lot of folks that put a lot of work in this and a lot of advocates who've been talking about this for a long time. Desert at least hear it, talked about the planning commission level, regardless of what happens at the general assembly and the governor level. As was said, sort of alluded to in your directive, but even before that, I know when we talked about it, We know the governor has until March 24th to sign the bill. I don't think we would need to wait until veto session because if the general assembly signed, frankly, two different versions of the bill that does the same thing. Well, McPike's bill, which gives it to everyone and just telling it hints his bill, which only gives it really to us and maybe one other locality, I don't see them as overriding something that he signs into law. But again, I'll go back to something that's where as Franklin just said. Understand that yes, we've all talked about as a body that we eventually wanna get 20304 and that we all support 20304 and the FoxyBate gives. That also frankly concerns me because we go from a very narrow and prescriptive line of code to a very broad one which could then take even longer to craft. And I don't want us to hold up the bus on at least what's been done already. Understanding that in the future, yes, we could eventually get to 20304. it will give us at least to me going for with 2305.1. It gives us an idea of where the planning commission's head is around affordable dwelling in ordinances to begin with, and also gives sort of a framework on a starting place for them to look at 20404 moving ahead. So, again, just from my perspective on we will know within the next couple of weeks on whether the governor will sit with that, and therefore whether or we'll be giving given that, acts as a code also as Sue Eraser Franklin said, all the other incentives, the trust fund policy, everything else that we know as currently sort of being done, sort of in tandem but also ultimately waiting for us to adopt the ordinance, I think that we've all been working with staff for quite a long time to get this to this point and I don't think we should speak as positing the further. Thank you Madam Chair. Senator vice mayor. Thank you Madam Chair. I'm going to approach this from a different angle. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for us to be through a pause so the governor can sign it because if he signs it then it's done and 2304 is an option for us. But I think what also needs to be considered is the amount of time, effort and political capital amendment, many members of this board, perhaps even a majority of them spent getting these bills before the General Assembly, both sides of the aisle. There were at least three bills to add us to 2304. I think a number of us expected significant capital both at the general assembly level and even at the executive branch level. And I think that proceeding with 2305.1 prior to the governor having a chance to sign it, whether he signs it or not, it's somewhat irrelevant, but we should at least give them the time. It sends the wrong message to the delegation, because the message it sends to the delegation is, we've wasted their time. We've wasted one of their slot, actually, in this case, three slots for legislation they could have otherwise carried. We asked them, we begged them to do it. And we'll look pretty foolish in their eyes, and if we ever need anything else from them in coming years or even next year, you know, our credibility is now at stake. And you can say it's not true, but it is. I'd bear a grudge if I were one of them and we wasted all of their time. And it's like, we're already, not exactly the favorite county in the general assembly because of us not showing up for some things. But I mean, I don't see the sense also in doing the ordinance twice. If the governor doesn't sign it, we proceed with 0.5.1. Great. Then we don't lose any effort. But if we decide to proceed to 0.2, I don't see the doing 2305.1 and then going back and doing 2304 because you're gonna have an intervening period where you're gonna have an entitled people. And because of this prescriptive nature of 2305.1 and what we would have to do, I don't think three weeks is too much of an ask. I supervise or Vega? Thank you Madam Chair. I just want to go on the record saying that after reading your directive I'm not against the spirit of your directive. I understand and further discussion in terms of what supervisor we're has just stated. I don't disagree with it say that I was under the impression that we would have to vote to amend the rules of procedure, but because when we gave the request of giving notification, we never established a time frame. Therefore, we do not have to. So I don't have an objection to stand on. Therefore, I will retract my objection. I appreciate you. Supervisor Franklin Lengority. Yeah, I just want to, I want to keep the focus on housing. But I will just want to address some of us, Supervisor Wears comments. We won't look like fools to, for those of us who have been working hand in hand with some of these delegates on other issues. They understand the position at Prince William County is in. They support at least some of the ones that you have referred to. They support us doing the work that we have to do on a local level. So I don't know what type of relationships you have, but the relationships that most of us have on this board guarantees that we will continue to have a good working relationship with our delegation. So let me just start with saying that. I'll also just say that again, going back to this actual legislation, working in tandem alongside while we wait to see what the governor is going to do and as a reminder, last year he did not sign. You know, there are a lot of political issues at play that could derail this from the governor signing. So there is no need in my opinion and I say this all diplomatically and respectfully. There is no need to pause the work while waiting to see what the governor is going to do. Now to be fair, Supervisor Wehrer, he's been saying this all along that we should pause work and wait to see what the General Assembly is going to do. Now we see that they passed this, but again, they've gotten this far before and it didn't go forward. So I think we should allow staff to continue doing their work. I've been very vocal in the past about them getting further along than where they are now. And so I wouldn't want to put a rich in that, and it is true. The Planning Commission is holding a public hearing next week, and I think it's important for public hearing to be held to hear what the public has to say about this very issue and about the potential for the ordinance. And so again, just going back to, I wish we could have talked about this a little bit more before now, because I would have liked to got into a place where maybe we didn't have to have this discussion. All right, Gordy, Bodie and Angry. I appreciate the comments by Supervisor Weir and Supervisor Franklin, but I do want to balance off what you just said. We need the governor to sign this bill. In any message we send him that we're moving forward without the bill is the wrong message to send. We need him to understand we need this bill. And if we're going to be putting together a letter and sending it to him to encourage him to sign this bill. And I would also offer. Ian Lovejoy also put this bill in. There was a lot of partisan politics that played during the General Assembly and there's some sensitivity to that right now. And so I personally don't want to send the governor, the one who's got this bill on his desk and can either kill it or sign it or veto it and sign it. I don't want to send the wrong message, owning to know that we're serious about this. And I think if we send the message through our own behavior that we're just not going to move forward by ignoring 2304, but that we actually do want this and move forward with that necessity. And we're demonstrating that necessity. I think it sends a message to him. We need him to sign this bill. So while I, you know, there are things I think we absolutely could be talking about, such as the Affordable Housing Trust Fund and what that looks like, how that's in the rules set around that. But I think at the overarching affordable dwelling unit ordinance, I've been reluctant to support moving forward any step on 2305..1 because I've not heard anybody that supports it. Whether in the development community, in the affordable housing community, or even on this day is. And so a lot of work has been done. A lot of people have said, hey, you need 2,3,4. In all aspects of this discussion. And so I would certainly encourage us to send the strongest possible message to the governor that we need this bill. Thank you Supervisor Angry. Madam Chair, look, I said I was going around on this I think you've got some opposition to your directive. You want to just call for a straw poll and get this out the way. I actually, I was going to let Supervisor Bailey have something to say. She's the only one who hasn't spoken. And then I know that you're back in the queue, Supervisor Franklin, but you know, you've had your two bites. You know, if we are not, if I don't have the votes, it's not worth taking the vote, but Supervisor Bailey, you haven't spoken other, you know, after that, then I will make a decision. Thank you, Madam Chair, for your courtesy. I, one thing to my colleagues suggestion about letting the governor know that we're serious about this. I think the, and to my colleagues saying that, you know, how people perceive us on this board, I think the governor knows that we're very serious board and we're intentional about everything that we do on this board, whether we agree or not, we come with intentionality, that's first thing. And we can send a collective letter with our signatures on it asking the the governor to please pass this bill. It's the appropriate and professional thing to do. That's how we usually do business from this board. In the past, I'd like to continue that trend. The other thing is, when we talk about how important affordable housing is, we need to stop dancing with it. People want to live here, and want to live in an affordable way and the more we dance with it, the more time we're taking and not making sure that it moves forward. And so I certainly embrace and respect Madam Chair your intent and I think that your intent in terms of the time frame April the second doesn't harm us at all. I mean, we've been doing extremely well with the passing and the supporting of the CRC. And we're in limbo now waiting for a waiver to make sure that this comes to fruition. It's the same thing in being in limbo waiting for 2304. And so, though I respect the time frame and what we're trying to achieve here, I think we do know harm by doing things simultaneously, chewing gum and walking together at the same time. And I think in walking with the governor, where we can still achieve is by sending him a professional letter asking him to support us because of the love of respect that he does have for this county. So that's all I have to say Madam Chair. Thank you. I know that you're in the Q Supervisor Franklin but you've had your you know what that sounds like this would be a for-for so I'm just gonna leave it alone but I do appreciate the dialogue that we've had around this and with that I am done. We are done for now. Our next meeting is at seven o'clock where we're going to have lots of fun. I will see everyone then. Thank you so very much. As you can see we also have a large number of speakers sign up so we know that this is going to be a lengthy meeting. I ask that everyone have patience this evening. We look forward to hearing everyone who has come out to share your valuable input with the board. We know that you feel passionately about this application and that you're personally impacted and invested, whether in support or in opposition. But we also ask that you please focus on the application itself and the reasons why you either support or oppose it. We also ask that you please be respectful of others and every point. I would like to remind everyone that there will be no outbursts during the meeting, including in support or in opposition of what the speaker has said. I would also like to remind speaker that this is your opportunity to share information with the board. It is not an opportunity to have speakers of the board, the county staff, or the applicant, or other representatives. I know that many of you are familiar with our land use public hearings, so let me explain how it works. In a few minutes, I will ask the county staff for his presentation. After the county staff has completed its presentation, I will ask the applicant and their representatives to present. I'm actually gonna flip that. I'm gonna ask the applicants and then the county staff. So the applicant will come up and then the county staff will come up. During these presentations, the board members may ask questions of the county staff and application of the applicant and their representatives. After the presentations are complete, I will open the public hearing. We will hear everyone who is signed up to speak. But you must remain here. When your number is called, your number is called. And this is your opportunity to share input about your input to the board. You are allowed three minutes per person or up to five minutes if you're speaking on behalf of an organization as defined by the rules, the board's rules of procedure. And that means only one person from an organization can speak. We cannot have multiple persons for saying that the representative and organization speak for five minutes. You will see up there, you will speak in the back, up there you will see a timer on the screen. We also have a timer over here where we are tracking your time. After all of the in-person and virtual speakers, I will close the public hearing and then the board will discuss the matter. I appreciate your patience and your cooperation. We're going to, this is going to be a long night. You know, again, I ask that everyone be respectful of different views and that we will not have any outbursts. So with that, I don't know if the applicant is ready. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have the Madam Chair. Mr. Vice Chair, members of the Board. Thank you so much for having us come in this evening to present on the Trans-Turkey Tip Point International Church. This is a long time coming. The application was filed back in 2019. So for many years we've been working on the application and listening to staff's comments and the county's comments and Citizens comments as well to try to understand exactly what the issues are to address as best as we possibly can My name is Olawn Simmons. I'm a Vander Poe from Sconcini and I'm a Laney's attorney I'm 20 day bypassed or Arthur who's ahead of the church I'm also joined by several key professionals who've been working on this development with me for many many years I have Ron School, some schools in Townsend, our civil engineer, Vern Torney from Vetter Company, our traffic engineer, Wayne Savage from Soils Inc, our septic engineer, and Ian Boomer from Soil Consultants Engineering, who is an environmental compliance professional. I'm also joined today by the congregation of Transformation Temple National Church. I've been working and playing very diligently about this project and about their church, and they're looking for the time to have the chance to tell you exactly why they love this church and why this is the right fit for our community. On behalf of the pastor and the church, I'm asking to approve the specials permit that's before you today. The transformation temple and the national church is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas Christmas is a Christmas Christmas from the Fairfax County 2003. For 22 years, I've chosen to focus on providing quality church-based services was founded in Fairfax County 2003. For 22 years, the church has been focused on providing quality church-based services to people in need, and that means anyone in need, not just those who are members of the board, attendees of the church, but anyone in the community who needs help. Over the years, the pastor noticed that most of the congregation lives in Prince William County. So in 2019, the church bought the property of Davis floor road and they've been looking for a place to worship there since then. The church currently has 120 members. The church has skill professionals as part of their congregation, including physicians, lawyers, CPAs, nurses, federal workers, veterans, IT professionals, entrepreneurs, and so forth. The church services will be held Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays. With the majority of people visiting the site on on Sundays On Wednesdays the church expects 15 to 20 people to attend by Zoom and on Fridays they expect 25 people to attend at that point in time The church has agreed to Probably to locate the A1 zoning district and The probably is about 4.3 acres. When the applicant was filed back in 2019, the long-range use was SRR in my real residential and it's been changed to Orpa in 2022. This site is about a mile and a half away from Prince William Parkway. This is the bird's eye view of the property that shows the residential use on all sides of the site. It's important to know that the church's nestled within residential communities are not unusual, especially in northern Virginia. This is St. Elizabeth's Nanceetan in the Smoketown community in Woodbridge. It has a special use permit for the church. It's also located in the A1 district, just like we are. There's a church of Latter-day Saints off of Holy Road. in the A1 district, just like we are. There's a church of let it a saints off of Holy Road. It's in the A1 district as well. And there's also Park Valley Church. And it's looking about Park Valley Church. You can see that there's some water bodies in the property, but the applicant was careful enough to work with the county, to address the issues that were involved, and they were allowed to have a on that site, inspired by the water bodies. And it's also in the A1 district as well. In terms of existing non-residential uses, there's a church already on Davis Ford Road along with the fire station and the police station as well. And so there's been some development on Davis Ford Road, so we will not be the only non-residential uses on that road. In terms of the elevations, if you're traveling west on David Sward Road, this is what you would see. And then if you're traveling east, this is what you would see. And what we try to do is we try to work with the county and the community to make sure we had a product and a look of the building that was complimentary of the area. This began as a building that was all white and color. We've made several adjustments to it to make it really blending with the community a lot better. In terms of the site layout, this is our first submission. We had initially two buildings on the site and one was attached to the other. There was a church and then there was a fellowship hall gymnasium attached to that. It was over 28,000 square feet. The community did not like that idea. They were upset by the number of buildings on the site and by the size of the building itself. So we went and we did some reductions and scaled it back. We took out the fellowship hall and we now just have the one church building on the site It's about 18,000 square feet There's a basement and a first floor on that in that building In terms of the requirements we are meeting the minimum block size requirement The maximum allowable lock covers 85% or a lot coverage is 26.5% so we're under that maximum lock coverage. The allowable height is 60 feet. We are doing 35 feet so we're a lot shorter than what's allowed. We have 104 parking spaces on the site. The maximum allowable height for a sign is 10 feet but our sign is 6 feet and we do have our 30 foot buffers as well. The floor plant plants here showed you what you would essentially find without a church building. Nothing's unusual inside. It's a lobby, restroom, sanctuary, Sunday school classroom, a kitchen for warming food only, a fellowship space, office spaces. This is our transportation plan. This is, as was all of several iterations of the plan that was worked on very carefully by Vern Torney and Ron Schools Engineer. It took us a while to get to this particular plan, but we have done a lot to put in right turn lanes and left turn lanes, left turn lane taper and stack, right turn lane taper. And this was reviewed by the county and the Department of Transportation. They determined this plan to be acceptable and it's a result of a lot of good work. This is the auto turn analysis that we provided because there was some concern about emergency vehicles turning onto the site and be able to get on and off the site safely, so we provided this slide as well. There was some concern about the curve on Davis Ford Road. People were concerned you wouldn't be able to see the church from that curve up there in this area. So we had this schematic prepared to show you how much sight line there is from this bend here to the church. There's 1,000 feet, but you can see very clearly before you make that turn. So there's no blind curve on the day of the show road. There's a lot of room to be able to see. And then you can have officers parking here safely on the site to make sure people get on all the site safely. We also have a condition to make sure that if there's any traffic issues that we have a shuttle service for over full parking on the site, we have officers as well to help direct traffic as well. The counties looked at this and they're determined determined as no weaknesses in terms of transportation plan. We have existing tree buffers here. These are all tree-saved areas here on every side of the site. This is 40,000 square foot of tree-saved area. We also have landscaping at the entrance to the site. We have evergreen trees, deciduous trees, and shrubs. And then we have interior a lot landscaping as well throughout the site. And these areas here, here, here, here, and here. And these are re-vegitated areas where we'll be planting trees and whatnot. And we're exceeding the requirements for interior parking lot landscaping, and we're exceeding requirements for tree canopy as well. In terms of signage and fencing, we have a six foot signs I mentioned with landscaping around it. The sign is externally lit. And this defense that will be put up to make sure our light doesn't lead onto the neighboring property owner and pull into the driveway area. In terms of stormwater management, this is our somewhat of management system. This will be underground. Initially, the pond was back here in this area. The citizens didn't like that very much. We moved it to another ground chamber area. And we have a schematic showing you what the proposal will be like. There's a 24 inch outfall pipe. There's a 16 inch pipe into the stormwater chamber. There's 42 inch stormwater chambers under the ground. So this is a preliminary sketch. This has been reviewed by soils engineer, and he is determined it looks good, and it's gonna work just fine. And this is the letter from the soils engineer who's looked at our plans and says, it's gonna meet the requirements of the county, DEQ and EPA. And then we have a proffer to make sure that we are compliant with BNPs, so I might imagine with BNPs, practices for treating storm-arm quantity and quality during the site plan review process, and we're following all the laws. And this is a very similar proffer that was just adopted recently in 2024 with applicant is going to be complying with the rules and taking care of things at the site plan phase. And this is another very similar one as well. In terms of water and sewer, we're connecting to the public water. Unfortunately, the sewer system is too far away so we can't connect to that. But we do have approval from the Department of Health. The average daily flow for our type of product is 445 gallons. Our capacity can hold 651 gallons, so we are well above the average daily flow. And then we receive the Department of Health approval for our system, and they have said here that we're going to be compliant with the Virginia Code. We have four tanks on the site. We have a 5,000 gallon pump tank. We have three 1500 gallon tanks as well as 8,000 gallons that we're able to hold and we have a reserve area and a drain field area here and this is all been reviewed and approved by the Department of Health. We also have a proper to put in low-flow fixtures, in restrooms and bathrooms and kitchen area. We have a potluck-style kitchen, bring your own food, no food preparation on the site. with a microwave oven just for reheating purposes. In terms of environmental, we had a couple of studies with a two phase one studies done, which showed there was no environmental concerns on the site. And then we had this study done as a project review, where they looked at it and said there's no environmental concerns either on the site. And there's an environmental resource area on the site, but Julie Flanagan was here, addressed it. There's no RPM on the site, but it's an environmental resource. So I wanted to show you what she mentioned about that. that also comes to 1.9 liters of those. There's not RPA on site. There's EOR. Yes. EOR is environmental resource. It is defined by various environmental parameters. In this case, environmental resource that's on site are a combination of areas that have and the combination of steam slopes with failure of soils that bring out the same time needed. There are graphic concerns then. So, if this, I can, I'm not so familiar. So, at the top is Davis Ford Road and the dark shaded areas are what's considered beyond. And those are only areas in all these deep social categories. The reason that now is not of the issue for us, there's our mental position is that in compliments for the fact that we're talking about taking care of some socials, either with this work. Is it associated with the perennial stream or intermedia stream? And there are no perennial streams or intermedia streams on the site. And so those, although we're finding people who protect them and take care of them, there's not a that policy. It points to that and says you must protect those. Is that helpful? It is helpful. Thank you. So because there's no poor no stream to enemy stream to a good shape in terms of the environmental resources on the site. And lastly, I just want to show you that we're sites very far from our core reservoir. We're here. We're about two and a half miles away from the reservoir, which is up here in this area. And I'm saying our site drains here first and then kind of goes up throughout the other property. So there's a, it's been said that we're going to be almost adjacent to the aqua reservoir. We know we're close to it. We're very far away from it. So I'm going to stop there. And I was taking questions that you have at the proper time, but I thank you for listening. I appreciate your attention. All right. Thank you so much. Does anyone have a please jumping queue if any of the board members have questions? You have a nod? All right. I've received many questions from constituents than I would like to go through some of them. First of all, I want to talk about growth. To clarify, will this church be in addition to the places of worship for transformation temple? Or will it replace the spring for location? I'm sorry, I'll ask questions from the applicant first. Now,'s no, there's no growth. So at this point, we have 208 seats in the building. If the church does grow, the church's philosophy is to plant churches elsewhere. The church's planted churches in Freddicksburg and in Stafford County. So they're not looking to grow on this particular site. In other words, the idea is not to create a mega church on the site. This is a small local community church. They see it that way. The Prophers only allow for 208 seats. So there's no desire to grow outside of that. There's no desire at any additional buildings. the Proffer is really captured what we can I can't do on the site from a development perspective All right Thank you madam chair on what 24 hours Let's stick with that for a moment So you've actually profit a maximum of 208 seats in the congregation hall. I'm calling Proffers the conditions but you know what I mean. But I mean I had to say more and give it last night. Same the statement. I'm a little concerned I mean at a hundred and four parking spaces plus shuttle service it sounds like you may go over 208 I don't know that we can enforce that so I'll tell you that that we were going to put fewer parking spaces on the site. But there was concern that we wouldn't have enough. So we did 104 to make sure we had enough. The shuttle services just for the purpose of if there's an event that has a lot of parking and there's not enough spaces, we don't want people to park on on a day or so road. That was to cure that issue. So that was a request from the citizens, from the residents. We thought it was a good idea, because we want to make them feel secure. And we want to make sure the congregants are getting on off the site safely. So the shuttle service is just in case and only if necessary, so that we can park at a school nearby and then shuttle people onto the site. One of this thing with respect to the road improvements I noticed in areas are there are there going to be any taking or condemnations required to accommodate the third party parcels to accommodate the transportation improvements. We had to do a we had to do a vacation an abandonment of the roadway a part of it. Part of it., a part of it, the front part of the site, because we didn't own that, it was VDOT. So that was abandoned, I think, back in 2020, the whole process. And then after that was done, the church had to purchase it. So abandoned, been purchased. And so now we've got what we need in terms of parking and billability. But there won't be any condemnation or coronation parcels. No. I should say also the transportation issues and all the transportation designs that we're doing are being paid for by the church and no one else. I get dabbed. That's been a concern. I'm not in my age. You want to always be. It's a kind of suggestion of somebody else's property. No, when I do a turn out on that. No takes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Servicers are bathing. Thank you, Madam Chair. On this slide, too, on where the services, that was one question that I had. I know Sunday service and Wednesday's probably Bible study. The Friday services, is that activities or just give me some understanding of what that might be? I think it's a Bible study. I can have the pastor speak to that specifically. Okay. It's a very small group though. As you can see, 25 people come into this. It's important. And then on Wednesdays From seven to eight. That's actually a zoom call Well, they have people to zoom in so almost coming to the site on that's a zoom on Wednesdays Okay, they'll be coming on Sundays and then on Fridays and my reasoning for asking that is Because of the travel and the traffic and I noticed on one slide you had added a lane for the going into the church. Is that what I saw? Yeah, I mean, it's screwed up. So this was, I gotta tell you, it didn't look like this way when we started. It looked nothing like this. The reason why this was important is because we had to put a left turn lane in, we get into the site safely because of how the road is shaped and how it's built. So this is as a result of some really clever engineering and careful thought process with the county, with VDOT, and with our folks to make sure this works. And so that's why you see the left turn lane here, right here, and then the stack lanes. You can stack about six or seven cars here as they're waiting to turn into the site. And then you've got the right turn lanes also with the taper as well. So these are all transportation conditions that we needed to do to make sure people got to the site safely and I wish one site safely. There's also a left turn lane and right turn lane out of the site. So this is a left turn lane here and right turn lane out of the site here. Okay, and then my last question if I may, Madam Chair, is the presentation of the building and the height of the building? I don't think that was the original, the presentation of the building. Is that the original? Let's go back to that one there. No. Go forward. Oh, the look of the boy. Yes, man. The look of the building. Yes, right in there. That's not what I saw originally. It was not the original design. It was all white. It stuck out from the sore thumb in the community. The pastor is very thoughtful. He said, we don't want to do the things that would be disruptive. We want to blend in. We want to do something that makes sense, given the color of the bills that are around us. There's a lot of brick in that neighborhood. There's a lot of natural colors so that you can go back and reconfigure and come up with the best. make sense, given the color of this bills that are around us. There's a lot of brick in that neighborhood. There's a lot of natural colors, so they began to go back and reconfigure. It came up with a better looking, I think, product for where we are. So it went from this stark white structure to this structure that really looks nice. And if you look at it from Davis Ward Road, it's a very nice looking high-quality structure. Thank you, Memchir. Senator Vasegordi. Thank you, Memchir. Um, good evening, Noah. Good to see you. Good evening, you too. In terms of your service on Sundays, is there, are you, is the church only planning for one service or the, uh, potential to go to multiple services on Sunday? At this one, I think the church is planning for this one service. Okay. But is there a potential that it could go to multiple services on Sundays? I don't think so. Okay. I've talked to the September Tank Engineer though. Yeah. What he tells me is that if we did two services that the tank could handle that kind of thing, that kind of work going into it. Because you have people coming to the site on Sundays, after that no one's there. There's a small crowd on Fridays, whether than that. It's not a lot of activity. Well, and I've shared with you, you know, the church that I attended went to multiple services and outgrew their septic and it created significant problems. So as you can understand it was a problem for the church mostly because they couldn't connect to sewer so they had no choice but to move. And I would hate for this church to commit to a site that cannot sustain their growth just simply because I'd hate the church to lose its growth because of a septic tank. Right. Been there,. So, and then, but I'm also, you know, in terms of transportation, if you've got one group, leaving one group coming in, that makes also for a significant challenge. So just trying to understand what the game plan is and whether or not we fully mitigated for those, for that potential growth within the proffers and within the plan. I've got the guy here who can ask all those questions in terms of septic. Okay. And we can come in now, we can come in a little way to prefer, but he just showed me that with the two services, the system can handle that. Okay. We can wait on that. Actually, I want to bring that person up, because I also have questions, and I think a lot of us have questions You know, so if you can have your second sick expert come forward And I'm gonna ask people in the audience if you take a seat if you could please keep it I know there's a lot of movement in and out of the chambers. I'm also looking around I just want to also let you know we cannot have standing in the chambers. So please know standing in the chambers. And I ask if you have a seat in the chambers, please realize there are a lot of people outside who would like to sit in it, but they're not in here. So be mindful of your in and out movement. All right. Good evening, everyone. Thanks for having me. Wayne Savage of SoulZinc. So yeah, the system is designed, you know, when you design churches and you design septic systems, it's based on the number of seats in the church. In this case, as you know, Oloan discussed, it's 208 seats and that's what we based our design on. Each seat is based on five gallons a day per seat, not necessarily per person. It's a per seat use. How that works is, and this is just for instance, for example, if every seat is filled up at one service, 208 people. All those people come in a church, they all leave. Let's just assume conservative purposes 50% of them go to the bathroom, right? I think we can all agree that not everyone goes to the bathroom. All those people come into church, they all leave. Let's just assume conservative purposes, 50% of them go to the bathroom, right? I think we can all agree that not everyone goes to the bathroom when they're at the church, right? Most of them come in, they go to the service, and they leave. So let's just say 50% of them go in there, they use a restroom, they wash their hands. Low flow fixtures these days, you're talking about maybe a gallon two max per user. Okay, so of 100 people are using the restroom. They're using maybe 200 gallons for that service. Next service comes in same thing. Another 200 gallons. So now we're up to 400 gallons. So multiple things here. Number one, the entire system is designed for a max daily flow of 651 gallons a day, with an average daily of 450. So we haven't even reached that average daily on two services on Sunday and Sundays our biggest day of flow. We've designed the system. The drain field is sized to handle 651 gallons a day. The septic tanks themselves, we have a 5,000 gallon tank being installed for flow equalization. So what that does is we can basically store. It's about, so you don't get the whole 5,000 gallons because there's a pump in that, there's some storage in the bottom. You get about 4,000 gallons roughly of storage inside of that tank. So it would take, I don't know the math, where I've talked about 10 services of that many people to come in and use the system for that system to start having a problem and overflowing. And the purpose of the I don't know the math or I'll talk about 10 services of that many people to come in and use the system for that system to start having a problem and overflowing. And the purpose of the flow equalization tank, it is to equally disperse the flow throughout the week since we don't have a lot of use Monday, Tuesday, a little bit of flow Wednesday, no flow Thursday, a little bit more on Friday and not much Saturday. So you have the opportunity for the system to play catch up if you will throughout the week. All right, Supervisor Foddy, good to go. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good evening, everyone. Thank you, Olon, for your presentation. Thank you, Mr. Savage, for being here. On that note, you kind of start to answer one of my first questions. When you talk about that average capacity, you're talking about essentially designing such that it's designed to carry that load on Sundays and the highest days and so to just equally flow out throughout the rest of the week. It's my understanding though, based on how the discharge currently operates that they have a couple month long events frankly throughout the year. So for example, their fresh start, January 6 through 26th, they have evening evening service every night of the week. Spiritual emphasis July, the entire month of July, July 1st, 30th, last year, same same thing did you sort of how does that fit into that those calculations? Yeah so we planned we planned for events to be held periodically we did not necessarily plan for every January or every July because kind of impossible to do that because they're not happening happening all throughout the year So we kind of take an average if you will to come up with the best design so that we can be conservative as possible to handle you know events that they might be having at the church. I don't have the exact numbers. I would assume those events are going to be small. They're not going to be as large as your your Sunday service right. They're probably going to have 20 maybe 30 people there and they're probably going to be there for an hour or two at a time. So again, same kind of thing. Those people are going to be as large as your Sunday service, right? They're probably going to have 20, maybe 30 people there. And they're probably going to be there for an hour or two at a time. So again, same kind of thing. Those people are going to come in. They might use a restroom once. Let's just say all of them do. There's 30 people there. You know, you're talking about 60 gallons of flow. very small number in terms of the overall daily flow numbers that we have. And again, because of that low flow on that day, the service from Sunday, which again, we've over low flow on that day, the service from Sunday, which again, we've over compensated for even Sunday service. Not only do we have that 5,000 gallon tank, we've got a 1,500 gallon septic tank in front of it that goes into that 5,000 gallon tank, that 5,000 gallon tank then feeds a microfast, which is a treatment unit. That's an integrated tank that has septic and treatment with it that has a total capacity of I think it's 1500 gallons and then it goes into a pump tank but I think our pump tank and I'm thinking for memory I don't have the plans in front of me but I think it was another 1500 gallons so in total tankage you know we've got 10,000 gallons worth of tankage on site. So there's a lot of capacity built into this thing so that in the event they do have those specialized events, we can accommodate those flows. Sure, and my last question for now, Madam Chair. That sounds like it's a pretty complex system to maintain. Not at all. Really? No, so we also have our sister company for New Septick. So whether we maintain it or somebody else means it's actually pretty simple. It's actually an annual visit every year. And the really only things you're checking, you're checking the pumps, make sure they're functioning properly, the floats in there functioning properly. The treatment system is doing what it's supposed to be doing as a blower unit, that blower unit has to be serviced every year. Typically three to five years of the fan inside that has to be replaced. But generally speaking, it's a pretty simple thing. I mean, homeowners across many homeowners in Prince William County and all the counties across the state have alternative systems. Similar to this one, this one has a lot more tanks to it. But other than that, it's pretty much all the same thing. And if a tank goes bad, you know, tank gets a crack in it, leaks, what have you? You just either come in and you can repair the tank or you replace the tank. And then the drain field is there. And the drain field gets checked regularly every year as well. So everything is checked on an annual basis required by the state. The state of Virginia, Prince William County, requires that this alternative system be inspected and maintained on a yearly basis a report has to be submitted so on and so forth. The last one Madam Chair and looking at the topography I appreciate that you got that along you popped up over here in Ninja brought up the slide. Looking at the topography and sort of where this is going to flow, knowing that there are residences adjacent to this parcel to basically the south and the west, and knowing that there's wells there, how did you factor that into sort of how you design the system? So there's required setbacks to all wells. It's 100 feet is the maximum setback where no we're when I'm including 100 feet to a property line so these wells are they meet code they meet state code as far as setbacks go for wells and that's that's all that's all that's looked at when it comes to septic okay thank you madam chair supervisor Vega thank you madam chair a lot of the questions that I had have have already answered by my colleagues, but let's just play a double advocate here, no pun intended. What if we have a scenario where it does a workflow, Supervisor Bode kind of mentioned it a little bit, but you just reference that it's not uncommon to have this type of system in place, but hypothetical. What if it does? What is the process to correcting an overflow situation? So there's an alarm that goes off. It's mounted with an audio visual alarm. So you're going to hear a sound, and you're going to see it. So two things. These systems actually can be set up. And that might be a suggestion, especially because it's a church when we get into actually getting this thing installed, as we can set them up with Wi-Fi capability so that they can ring the service provider immediately. So when there is that problem that, you know, they can be notified immediately of that high water situation. Now that said, when it goes into high water alarm, you've got some time. There's storage. There's a minimum of a quarter, and I, again, I don't have that even here, even on these plans that Oloan has. You can't ninja you again. But there is a minimum quarter-day storage built into these tanks above that high water alarm flow. So when that high water alarm becomes activated, there's storage above that, which basically gives time for the provider to come out there, figure out what's going on. We need to get it pumped, get it pumped, and then repair the situation that's in place. Thank you for that. And then in terms of cost. out there, figure out what's going on, if we need to get it pumped, get it pumped, and then repair the situation that's in place. Thank you for that. And then in terms of cost, is this a more costly approach to trying to mitigate some of the concerns that have been raised by the community, or is it a cheaper cost? Cost was not really, I don't want to, I don't want to say it wasn't thought about, but costually it doesn't go into this. goes into this is what's required by regulation. You know, they have a proposed use. They told us what that proposed use is. We asked them lots of questions in the design phase before we got this designed and permitted. And then from there, it's based on soils on site. It's based on use and flow. And all of those factors go into it. And to some degree, the cost is really left out of the equation. It's really based on what's required. Thank you for that and this might be a question for staff and if so I can wait for them to answer but I know that a lot of the concerns and have been raised by the community stem from the current amount of services that they're having in the Springfield location. It's my understanding that there has been a condition that has been accreted upon by the church in terms of the number of services allowed for Sundays. Yes? I'll defer staff on that one. I think that's an Olon question which I think he kind of addressed Olon if you want to come back to the... Thank you so much for that question. Yes. I've spoken to pastor about this particular issue. At this time, the church is prepared to conduct two services and to do a one hour delay between services so as to prevent any overflow on the traffic issues. That's all I have for now, Madam Chair. Thank you. I'll tell you, that's not currently in our proposed conditions, but we'll end up putting that in as we go forward. All right. So I appreciate all the questions. You answered a lot of questions, so I'll just let people go and come back. This is a question. How far is the drain field from another residence? Do you know how far it is between the nearest residents? Oh, line, you can actually have a seat in the reserved if you want. I mean, you can get your steps in. I'm not going to stop you, but you can sit there. I do not do we have, I do not have an exact measurement on that several hundred feet, at least, but I don't have a measurement on that per se. I just want to ask about the long because you can hear it and you can see it. And it gives time, you know, there's still space built in, it gives time to the provider. You mean the service provider, whoever they have a contract with to services? Correct, yes. They're required to have an annual maintenance, it's an O&M maintenance agreement with a service provider. Again, whether that be our company or somebody else. So yes, they would call them. Typically, whoever installs a system, they should put a sticker right on the control panel. Got their phone number, their contact information. Most the time that person would, that's who they would contact. They'd walk out, they'd see the alarm. It has a silence button on the side, typically we'll go over, you know, either me as the designer or the installer will go over that system, typically with the pastor or the owner of the system, let them know a little bit about the system so they can understand how to function when things like that do happen. And typically, like I said, there's a silence on the side, they'll hit that button just to kill the noise, and sure residents won't appreciate the noise none of them do. Even a residence goes off, it's quite annoying. That's the purpose. And then they would call that person. And you've kind of answered this, but I just, you know, what is the likelihood? How often do failures happen? I mean, there are conventional drain fields, which other than the treatment side of things, the reason for the treatment is because of limited space and because of the use that's being proposed, right? So that's the reason for all the treatment. Other than that, the drain field, the actual drain field itself is a traditional conventional drain field, which is kind of what is the best case scenario for drain field systems. There are drain fields in the ground that are 70 years old right now. So if they're well taken care of, if they're pumped frequently, this one has to be maintained properly. I mean, they can last 70 plus years or more. All right. Thank you. That supervisor Bailey. Thank you, manager. So I have two questions. One is the environmental, going back to the environmental piece. There were some wetlands if I'm not mistaken in the area that we looked at. How was that? How are we preserving that? I'll go back. So there are no wetlands at all on this site. Okay. There's no perennial streams. I couldn't remember. There's no intermittent streams. There's nothing there in terms of water on the site. What I talked about was the environmental resource area, which is not an RPA, it's an environmental resource area. Reasons doesn't necessarily have that way, because it has a rollable foils on it. But Julie, if I can say, the only time that becomes a concern is when you have these types of soils in conjunction with the streams. OK. We don't have that here, so. OK. And that was the reason why I was I was asking because that's that often time is the concern when we're looking at different projects and then the other thing that I wanted to ask was in the strategic in your strategic strategic plan and this may be down the road or has there been consideration for during services or if they're having programs to work with our local police departments to, you know, in terms of the traffic flow. Yes. We actually put a condition in to have officers come out to help us with traffic flow. And the the the the the direct traffic as well. I'm sure of course I said the cost of the church, but I just wanted to make sure I couldn't remember if that was in the strategic plan as well. Yes ma'am. Okay. Thank you Ben. All right, sir vice-deraiga. And along those lines, Olawn, can you talk to me a little bit about the traffic concerns that have been raised by the community in terms of stacking, what the church has done in order to try to mitigate some of those concerns raised by the community? Yes. I'm going to bring about traffic in your deer, for intorney, for Vettra. He's in the hallway. Come on down the price is right. Good evening chair members of the board. I'm Vern Torney, a venture company, traffic. And the question was again. I was asking about stacking and what measures has the church taken to try to address some of these concerns. Well, first of all, even I did a turn lane warrant analysis for both right and left turn lanes. And a dedicated lanes were not warranted technically for either one. But as a safety measure, we've gone ahead and provided both a dedicated left turn lane as well as a right turn lane as well with a taper. So we've gone above and beyond what is technically required. And then talk to me a little bit about this S shape road. I guess we can call it a road diet inside of the church lot and what that's going to do to try to alleviate some of the concerns of potential stacking on the main road. Well on inbound traffic of course it provides extra storage for traffic coming into the site. Traffic can easily get off of Davis Ford Road via the two turn lanes that we're providing and then once they get on the site they can they have all sorts of room. Approximately 16 vehicles could be stacked on that roadway plus available space in the parking area as well. On the outbound traffic, again, it provides stacking capability and storage for traffic coming out of the site. That way they can line up on that road and then they can turn left or right on the Davis Ford road as it's safe or as directed by the police officer at the intersection. So to be clear, 16 vehicles inside of the church, not on Davis Ford. Exactly. And then walk us through a little bit about what that would look like. I know that my colleagues on the day is and people here and at home watching. We know what it's like to see whether the sheriff's Office or the police department monitoring, you know, church traffic. I understand that there is some type of agreement in place that if there is a need, somebody from either agency will be hired to conduct traffic monitoring. Yeah. Well, basically what they would do is they would allow traffic to enter the site as well as exit the site as safe conditions allow. the police officers there to stop the through traffic on Davis Ford Road if he needs to, or he's there just to allow people or direct people to enter Davis Ford Road during the quite numerous gaps that would be available on a Sunday morning. Thank you. That's all I have for now, Madam Chair. All right. Supervisor, we're then bow to you then Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. Don't run so fast. Come back. Oh, you might be able to answer this. Given some recent changes at V dot, how long ago was the V dot issue, the approval for this? This S.U.P.? One was your last set of comments from them? It's been a while. To final while. Let me check with Ron schools. He's on the hallway. Let me check with him. I'm not sure. Call your next witness. Good evening. I'm Ron School Civil Engineer. Question is, how long has it been since speed art has reviewed these and issued their last round of comments? Well they they took a look at airplanes probably in 2022 and then they we sent them a traffic report in 2023 that they also reviewed. So your comments from 2023? Yes. Under the previous engineer at the residency? Well, the reviews are done in Fairfax. Not the... Oh, I believe me. I am very well aware of where they're done. I'm going to have some concerns with the rest later. Thank you, Madam Chair. Sir, Vice President Boating. Appreciate it, Madam Chair. Traffic gentlemen don't walk too far away. So you said 16 cars within the site. How many stacked on the actual turn lane to turn left into the site? The capacity on the left turn lane is six or seven vehicles comfortably stacked on that left turn lane. The right turn lane really doesn't need much stacking because it's pretty much a free flow situation. Traffic doesn't need to stack there. They just come into the site. And then the actual S turn is wide enough to accommodate vehicles coming in at the same time or no. How wide is that? I can't read the. Around 24 feet. 24 feet. Okay. Two final questions for now. In talking with the fire department, the fire marshal, did you talk to them about entry of emergency vehicles onto the site and how I saw the exhibit that Olawn showed earlier of coming in but once they get in was there any analysis of actually on the site in the parking lot and emergency vehicle maneuvering around the actual parking lot? We have our design, the way that we have the two lanes, one where they would go down, go around 36 feet of parking, and then come out the other side. So there's adequate means to turn there. Even when there's cars in the parking spaces? Yes. Because the travel waves are 22 feet wide. And then they used that 36 feet that are the parking spaces to actually maneuver through. And last question on the traffic piece for now. Again, this is assuming the peak of this use is Sunday mornings, right? Again, I go back to these month-long service days advertised at their previous, at their other location, throughout the month of January throughout July. I understand they may not do that every year, but when these services start at 7, still knowing that people still coming home through Clifton through Fairfax on week night after a week night around that time, did your analysis look at that at all? We did not specifically look at the Friday evening analysis, but I can go beyond that and tell you that on Sunday morning morning. The peak hour of traffic is according to national standards, the ITE trip generation manual. For this size church, it would be 114 vehicles coming into the site during the peak hour on a Sunday morning. Now that equates to one vehicle every 32 seconds coming into the site. And if you go beyond that and take a peak of the peak, take a peak 15 minute period within that peak hour, then you're looking at roughly about 57 vehicles coming into the site. That again is about one vehicle every 32 seconds, and then it's about one vehicle, I'm sorry, one vehicle every 16 seconds, but one vehicle every 32 seconds from each direction, assuming a 50-50 split. So you've got very few vehicles. I mean, you're looking at two vehicles in a minute. That's hardly any traffic at all. In fact, I went out there yesterday, or Sunday morning, to do a peak of the peak 15 minute survey. There's virtually no traffic there during a 32 minute segment zero traffic on Davis Ford Road. A minute segment you've got two or three vehicles on Davis Ford Road. New what do you only go out there on Friday night or Sunday morning did you also go out there like I said during the week no we did not again we did not do a Friday evening or a weekday analysis. Thank you. Simply because there's very little traffic associated with the church. Sure. Right, thank you. Before I go on to supervisor Bailey, I just want to ask if you take pictures, please be careful about using flash. Some of us are light sensitive. We do notice that. I think we're a wonderfully good looking group of people, but please be careful about using flash. All right, supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Mancher. This is just for clarity. I didn't hear any reporting on any archaeological burial sites there, because a lot of times we have historical cemeteries. And so I just want to, for clarity, make sure that that is not the case. Yes, ma'am. We did two phase one assessments for the site and nothing came back showing any burial sites, any natural habitats. There's no issues on the site regarding either those things. So I think we're in good shape. And I appreciate that just asking that just for clarity. Yes. Because a lot of these projects that we do, there are some of the areas there and we have no clue. Yes, ma'am. So thank you. Yes, ma'am. All right. Supervisor Ingrid. Hey, I guess I'll just jump in with one a.m. and how? Gary, one thing I know about that road is it does get dark at night. So, and I know service is on a Sunday. Usually I don't know on the Fridays or Wednesdays or whatever else will be happening. But do you have any plans of lighting in front of the church along Davis? Well, I don't even know if that's something that Davis will would want because I know that road is a very rural road. It's a beautiful road to drive down. So just curious. We were asked not to do that. We actually had the original idea in electronic sign with lights. We did not want that on the property. We took that into consideration. We took the electronic sign away from our plans. It's not a part of our plans at this point, Tom, so there's less light in the sky. Thank you so very much. I am now going to call up our planning department because no one else has a queue, so we're going to call up. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm going to go to the other side. Good evening, chair Jefferson. Supervisors. My name is Alex Vanegas with the Planning Office. And I will be presenting this case with me tonight. I have Vanessa Watson, who was the case planner for this case. And we have several subject matter experts from the different review agencies with us here tonight. So this is a request to allow a special use permit to allow a church to be built on this site. The property is located about approximately 1.5 miles from the intersection of Davis Ford Road and Prince William County Parkway. Plainy Commission and staff is recommending approval. In the bigger context, so you can see everything down here is the county complex. So it's, we also have the police station and fire station down here at the, near the intersection of the Parkway and Davis Ford Road. And this is the proposed site. As you can see, this is the Aqqon up here. So the long-range land use classification Oropa or Ocoquon Reservoir Protection Area. And I created another slide so I can explain that in a little more detail. We also do have an environmental resource protection overlay in this area, which is just south of the property. And as you can see, most of the property on the other side of Davis Ford Road is A1. And then the majority of the property around the subject site is SR1, which is more dense than or has a higher density than the A1 sites. So we marked up the slide to show you all the improvements that the applicant has made. Again, their engineer went through the tapered lane, coming into the facility as well as the taper when people are making a right hand turn. We have this turn lane right up here, left hand turn into the site. Again, this provides opportunities for stacking both on Davis Ford, if it's needed, as well as throughout this turn driveway that comes into the site, as well as part of the parking lot. So I think that addresses the concern that a lot of individuals had. They're also providing a retaining wall. They're proposing the underground storm water management system that will meet the DCSM requirements in section 700. And then this is the area for the proposed septic drain field. And then this is the building and then this area and here is going to consist of replanting. They did maintain the 30 foot buffer, perimeter buffer around the property with the exception of the 10 foot buffer that they're providing. They did request a waiver for that to split it just due to the inference that they have for their, the ingress and ingress onto their property. The applicant did provide architectural renderings of what it would look like. They are using earth tones that are similar to some of the other properties along Davis Ford Road, like the police station. And also, it's kind of in, it's in line with the character that we see in Lake Ridge, where you have the brick. But the earth tones of green and brown blended in better to the community. Originally they had a white building which staff had serious concerns with because we felt like that wouldn't really, wouldn't fall in context with what the surrounding development is. They are requesting a monument sign which meets know meets our requirements There's been several changes in the application. So originally it's gone through a number of revisions I believe we're at what eight eight submissions That's pretty long for an SUV And we've also gone through three case planners the original one was Alex Stanley and then Maggie Castello. And now Vanessa has taken over this case. But there's been several revisions to the actual site. Plan is well as a building site. Hold on, I'm sorry, please silence your phone. Thank you. Ingress and egress to the property. They have provided, we had a lot of concern with previous, the previous submissions because there was really no commitment to the septic drain field and their septic system. We really felt it was necessary for them to get approval from the health department because if they didn't do that then staff would have a hard time supporting this application. They are also providing an installation of turn lanes with tapers, both West and East, and as you heard from the applicant, they did acquire additional right of way for this property. The applicant has agreed to the mitigation for the traffic concerns by hiring police and sheriff officers to help manage with the traffic flow on Sunday mornings and during special events if necessary. The previously mentioned soil issues are mitigated through the site plan and review process. And then the underground stormwater facility, again, that will have to meet DCSM requirements as well as requirements to get their permit for that and its size accordingly. And as their subject matter expert attested, you know, that it's adequate. The thing with these septic systems, you know, someone asked about the failure rate. I tried to obtain how many septic systems have failed in this area. I haven't been able to get that information. But I do know as they start, as they age when you have like a 30 or 40 year septic system in place, that's more likely to fail than a commercial one that's been, you know, that has the annual checkups since it's an alternative system. It does require those annual inspections. Most of the homeowners, including myself, I'm unceptic. We have to pump it out every three years, but other than that, there's really no inspections. So, you know, you don't know until you identify the problem and you know I've had my alarm go off before in the middle of the night and you know that indicates you need to do something so I think if they have that system where they could send a signal to whoever is responsible for it I think that that would really give us another level of comfort. So the Planning Commission recommended approval and so is staff for the following reason. This is permitted use in the A1 both in agricultural and SR5 semi-rule residential zoning districts with a special use permit. The applicant agreed to conditions committing to architectural renderings that blend in with the surrounding area. They capped it at a maximum height of 35 feet in the A1. They could technically go up to 60 feet. They received approval from the health department for their septic field. The nearest possible sewer connection is approximately 6,200 feet. When the original application came in, I had issues with that because I remember working on the aquapon forest, and sewer line so that we could decommission the old service authority facility for a better, you know, having a sewer line that could pump it and treat it to a more progressive facility. So when I found out that it was this far, then I felt like they had to get approval from the health department before they came back to us. And they mitigated the conditions for traffic concerns. So I want to go over the real quick, the Occoquan was a protection area. If you remember, this was something that we added to the land use chapter. We worked with Kim Hoseon. We worked with Martin Geter, I don't know if he's here tonight. We did work with Supervisor Bodys office and Supervisor Vegas because both their district are located in the warpline. So, you know, we felt with all the concerns about protecting our water supply that came up over the previous years that this would be a good tool to start that process of protecting the aquapon reservoir. So we did put parameters in there and we identified this as areas that the density should be 1-doll-unit per 5 acres, which is similar to the SRR areas that had 25% or greater slopes or 15% greater slopes combined with soils that had limitations and then primarily to protect public water supply sources, wetlands and critical erotable shorelines and banks along the Ocaquan. And so how we got here, this property is A1. So we go to the zoning ordinance is allowed as a special use permit in the A1 district. And then there's also general permit and uses in the agricultural and residential zoning district for religious institution with a special use permit. They do have some minimum lot size requirements, but also the maximum lot coverage allows them to go up to 85%. Because there was some concern, you know, I know that some people said, well, here it's 26. And in some of the residential areas, it's only 30%. But since it's a religious institution, there is a language in the zoning ordinance that allows the maximum lock coverage up to 85 percent. And then in addition to the ORPA, we also have what we call the Environmental Resource Protection overlay. And as you can see, it does not run in this property. It doesn't run, you know, the ORPA, I'm sorry, the ERPO does not affect most of these properties, but it does run to the south of the property and there is some to the north. And to put it in context, this is all the ERPO areas in that Davis Ford corridor. So you can see there is a lot, but it doesn't run into the church property. A lot of the properties that are already developed fall within that area. So you know it's important that they maintain their septic systems. And then the last thing I wanted to go over, this is really hard to see, but the contours, but as you can see, we talk about the slopes. And when you look at the contour lines, throughout this whole Davis Ford corridor, there's a lot of steep slopes. As the lines get closer together, that indicates a steep slope. You can see there's areas that you know there's the lines are pretty far apart. These are areas that are good that don't have the steep slope and I think this property runs at 310 as you get to the elevation is 310 feet as you get next to Davis Ford Road and as you come down to the lowest point on the property it's 280 and that's similar to most of these properties along the Davis Ford cord or with the exception of a few properties that don't have those sleep subs. And that's all I really have. I just wanted to cover those things because I knew there was a lot of questions. We've been getting a lot of questions from the community. We just wanted to make sure that they had an understanding, you know, why we're here and why staff is looking at this and recommending approval. All right, thank you so very much. Mr. Vanneka, so I'm waiting to start with Supervisor Vaca. Thank you, Madam Chair. First off, Alex, thank you so much for the work that you and the team has put into this application. I know that I Personally have gone back and forth with a lot of questions as the community raises them and you guys have been fantastic. So thank you for that. Let me start off by asking you a little bit about undisturbed areas. Are there any areas that are going to be left undisturbed? So the majority of the project, they, so for the majority of the project, it is going to be disturbed. They do have limits of disturbance with their project, but they do have some but they do have some reforestation. And this area here will remain undisturbed. This area as well. So there are some areas that will not be impacted by the development. I guess I should have been more specific in regards to the buffer area. Talk to me about that. Okay, so the buffer area, all this buffer, they're providing a 30 foot buffer around the property, the perimeter, which is what we ask for. But we do have disturbance in the front, and that's why they're requesting a waiver for that section, because they don't have enough area to meet the 10 foot. So they're splitting it, and that's what ask for in their way. The retainer wall, how tall is that going to be? I'm not sure. I feel 18 feet at the highest. 18 feet at the highest. OK. And then in terms of the view shed from the road, what are we talking about here? I don't know if I have a slide, but I think that applicant provided us. If I can pull it up really quick if you didn't. Oops, sorry. There we go. Sorry, supervisor Vega. This is what it would see as you're coming into the entrance from Davis Ford. This is one of the views. you as you can see, it's down. So really, the view set is, I'm not going to say it won't be seen, but it's minimal compared to if it was up even with the road. Thank you. I specifically wanted to ask about that because I went personally to check out the site. I want to thank the pastor for making himself available for me to walk the property. Earlier today, prior to our 2 p.m. session, we received three letters. One was from Prince William Water, Commonwealth of Regina Department of Conservation and Recreation, another one from Swelll Consultants Engineering. Can you briefly summarize what these letters mean on your regards to the application? Absolutely, Supervisor Vegas. So we did receive a letter from the service authority because there was, we had received some concern from the community that there was an adequate water supply in that line. That's pretty much why we asked the service authority to address that situation which they did. They provided us. The next one was the- I'm sorry Alex just real quick. They they they they addressed it meaning exactly what is the church in compliance with what we've asked of them or- That it there's enough capacity in the water line to provide service to that church. The second one was the DCR. So we had a, you know, we had a DCR reached out to us because several people in the community said that there were endangered species on the site as well as Pagania, which is a endangered flower. So DCR did an evaluation and they provided the applicant with a letter and provided us with a copy of that letter saying that is not the case. And then the third letter was a stormwater management. Which is this gentleman here. Okay. Thank you. Would you like him to come up to? Sure. Good evening, Steve. Members of the board. How can I help you? Answer lots of questions. In a nutshell, I had asked our county staff to summarize the letter that was sent to us. So since you're the representative of the organization that sent the letter, you're off. The draft of the letter, in fact, we'll take a one more. Fantastic. When Mr. Arthur and Elon Simmons reached out to us, they asked us as our company, soil consultant engineering, to review the engineering plans and the specifications of what they have to be installed. We're based at a monasis and we operate in many of northern Virginia counties and Maryland's counties as well and in DC. So we've been operating construction, third party inspections in oversight, the company for 65 years. And in fact, I've been a part of building churches in Prince William County and other other Jason counties And this is probably the most Standard engineering spec I'd ever seen so it certainly seemed to meet Vitt Des the Virginia Department of Pollution Environmental standards the national pollution net des national pollution and environmental standards EPAQ, Prince William County, and schools is a pretty good civil engineering, and they've been operating for 40 years as well. So I asked my opinion of how it looked to me, the stormwater system seemed more than adequate to handle the amount of acreage of lost infiltration. So it's a nearly four acre and some change a lot. The 18,000 square foot building, the amount of parking that would be there, that will stop the permeability of that water flow. I'm sure you guys are all very familiar with that. And that underground system should be more than adequate to meet a better understanding of the situation. I think it's a great way to get a better understanding of the situation. I think it's a great way to get a better understanding of the situation. I think it's a great way to get a better understanding of the situation. I think it I don't see, and will be handled at site plan. As you're well aware, I've got a number of technical issues with this, but it seems like everything will be handled at site plan. It's my understanding that the final septic approval won't come until site plan Steep slopes will be mitigated at site plan storm water maintenance We'll be handled at site plan and I think you know what my issue here is If you look at the site and you look at the topo and all of these things are gonna be handled at site plan Sitting below them at the bottom elevation is the undisturbed area between them and the other parcels. And so you're going to have all of this activity, all of this clearing, 18 foot retaining wall, which is going to require significant cut and fill, I would suggest, which brings another issue of dump trucks in or dump trucks out. I'm not sure how that's going to work. But I'm a bit concerned about, you know, you've got both steep slopes and erudible soils right there. No, you don't have an intermittent stream. However, you do have a lower elevation beneath all of that activity where I've given recent storms and recent incidents. I'm kind of concerned that you could have that overwhelmed that area, especially if the slopes are that steep at the bottom. The other thing that concerns me is, you know, we've had the circumstance before elsewhere in the county with slope failure, people's houses and decks being at risk, that sort of thing. It's bothersome and then we've also had the alternative septic systems. I think everybody on this board should recall that we've had one that we had to bail out a large for lack of a better term commercial grade for a For a subdivision out there by Effingham where we're now paying for sewer and water because the alternative system failed You know, I'm not a big fan, but I just I don't we, I'd like to see a lot of this cleared up and cleaned up before site plan personally, because I've got some concerns with what the actual impact we're going to be or what changes we made at site plan. I'm far, I grow weary of the number of times that something gets approved by this board goes to site plan and then suddenly staff is issuing waiver after waiver after waiver. I grow weary of the number of times that something gets approved by this board goes to site plan and then suddenly staff is issuing waiver after waiver after waiver that probably would not have been acceptable to the board but stand but is within the scope of staff's authority at the site plan stage. So I've just got some serious concerns here and I don't think you're going to be able to address it tonight. I mean, you can try. But I'm worried. Understood. I don't have a direct answer for that. But they did. In the conditions, they did commit to complying with all federal state, county laws, ordinances, co-requirements, policies, and regulations. And those are the parameters that we have for all applications, whether it occurs at site plan or if we address it in a condition. But in most cases, a lot of this does, you're right, it does get addressed at some point. And to that point, you know, if you get to site plan and something isn't feasible from an engineering standpoint because circumstances change or another agency V.O.T. comes to mindanges their rules, their inspection procedures, and suddenly there is a dramatic change required to any number of things. Asceptic, the stormwater, the design of the sidewalk or the entrance feature, and I think I'll address that later. I just, I'm a little leery given the topography and what's going to be required to make this work. Thank you. So, it was a birdie. Thank you, Madam Chair. Alex Vanessa and the folks that came before you, they've worked on this project over the last almost six years at this point, right? Thank you for all your hard work. I know this has been a long time coming. I know that in the grand scheme of things we're going to project that's on a four acre parcel for five years is a long time. So I wanted to not let that go by without thanking you for all your hard work on this. Thank you for working with the applicant over these long iterations of this project. So a couple of things, as mentioned before, your timeout areas that are, limits of disturbance include areas of both 15 to 25% slope and 25% slope. You know, I've driven in the last five years up and down Davis Ford during spring, summer, fall, winter, uh, during storm, for I probably shouldn't be on the road and other times where it probably was dark dark dark dark to some point that was made earlier about the conditions when there's no lights on this part of the road. How often have we seen just in your recollection either one of you us work with a site that disconstrained with this type of steep slopes and there not been any issues with erotable soils like this. We haven't had mudslides or anything like that happen knowing with how much activities will be happening on this site. So from my perspective, I don't recall, I can't recall another case where we approved, where we had major issues like that. I don't know if anyone else that has worked on a land use case can recollect. I know that we've had a lot of church SUVs that came in and had similar parameters and they've been successful. The street I live on, token valley has a small church that's been there since 1920. Sacred Heart is off of Purcell. Those are all in the semi-roll area. Some are bigger than this and the one that's on my street is much smaller. But I think with getting the site plan approved, the construction permits, the inspections, as well as maintenance of the facility, that a lot of that addresses potential issues. Again, even with the septic system, when you have someone review it, check in it every year, that's a lot better than, you know, a house, someone that owns a house that's checking it, you know, every three to five years when they get it pumped. So, you know, there are, it sounds like there are some additional safeguards in place with the maintenance oversight, but there's no guarantee. Right, and why I say that, and thank you for that, Alex, because part of the reason why I'm concerned about this is it's sort of two things in tandem that we don't usually see together. We have steep slopes, so we also have no mature tree cover being preserved at all. So, you know, you're having a situation where especially when the heaviest of the construction is happening you're having the paving of the parking lot, the construction of these very tall sort of slopey S-grant curb, all this stuff is happening. You're taking away all the trees. A lot of what would keep the soil in place is frankly no longer there. And I just know of other parts of the county where they're in the rural area, the semi-rule areas where you have folks try as they best as they can, put up those fences, they put sandbags things like that, but we always see them overrun at some point, we have extreme storms. One of the things that they do for construction is the super-silt fence. That's something you know we can talk to the applicant if that's something they're willing to commit to, to, you know, minimize those types of things. You see that on sites where you do have the potential for erosion or like what supervisor Weir had suggested that there's, you know, the concern with the construction and the retaining wall. So that's one thing we can talk to the applicant about is, you know, during the E&S to use super-sult fence as, and maybe some other parameters to protect. Appreciate that. And, um, I have two final questions, well one actually one final question, so I'm running out of time here. It was mentioned earlier that this was one of the most standard specs that you've seen. I'm talking to the gentleman that issued the letter earlier. And you've seen the good, bad, the ugly, seen all sorts of different kinds of churches around the region, around the county. My question for you is, have you seen one that's sort of nestled in this kind of area, sort of landlocked by basically small, a lot, residential properties, and having sometimes wells backing up onto the property line of these sites? I've worked in a lot of the counties and in various projects from underground lateral drilling and road and transmission line construction and anything you can think of just about. There are types of controls that I've overseen the use for slopes that are greater than 60 degrees, which would make these almost look flat by comparison. And we had no washout or collapsed failures. It's called EC3 slope stability. It essentially bolts into the ground and it can keep things stable while the vegetative grasses grow in. Grass roots can actually keep the soil from eroding away within the same degree of margin of comparability to a tree. In some cases, even better since grass doesn't fall over, but a tree eventually will. So there are ways to stable up and secure this plan. And some of those things that I had seen is the 30 foot buffer around the site of vegetation is something that I don't always encounter in construction projects where essentially it's we'll just call it more minimalistic vegetation and planning. This had some decent amount of green spaces for the type of project planned and I thought that was good. It was not only does it have that preventative measure of slope failure but that helps with the percolation of water into the ground, which helps take relief off of the storm system itself underneath the parking lot. Filtration of the quality of the water before it hits the aquacon reservoir area. All the way around I thought those were sort of like the like that gold star standard that that above and beyond is what I was seeing in those plans that I don't always encounter. So that to me seemed like this would be a good site. It would more or less go without any of the problems that this committee is is concerned with thank you. Yeah, anything else sir Superfans are Vega Thank you madam chair. I'm not really a question per safe and more so of a comment because I know we're all eager to hear from the Community that has shown up and and folks that want to speak you know. I'm glad that we're talking about erosion. I know that at some point we're going to get talking about runoff and whatnot. But to put the church under a microscope and say that they're going to be responsible for some of those things when other projects that literally encroach on Orba and have contributed to a lot of these issues that are being raised right now have been approved seems a little hypocritical to me. but we'll have that conversation a little bit later down the road. All right. Thank you. Did you? Supervisor Angry? I will just bring the one question. The 30-foot buffering around the property, there's a side appear that kind of depicts that very well. What is on the other side of that, of the buffer? The adjacent properties, I, I, I, I have to pull up a, yeah, specifically what I mean by that. Yeah, okay, four or three. So, okay, I see a home, one home here. And there's an okay, okay, I just want to see, yeah, that's a good slide right there. Okay, thanks. Have a tight spot for the board. I am going to call you by numbers. If you did not put down an address on this page, I only have one person who did not put down an address or a Magisterial District, so I will call you at non-residents. Residents go first, non-residents go second. I'm going to call everyone in groups of five. Know your number. When you get to the microphone, please state your name and the Magisterial District where you live. If you are outside of the county, you can state where you live. But again, I'm asking you guys to wait until I allow our county residents to go first. And then again, it's very important that you speak directly into the microphone so that we can hear you. And this is for the official record. So we need to know who's coming up and who's saying what. And then you get three minutes again on that screen, you will have a timer. Only one person can speak for an organization. That person can have up to five minutes, but you must request it upfront. So with that, I am gonna call up numbers one through five. All right. I would like to get started. So if you're leaving, if you're exiting, please. So that we can get started. All right. Speaker number one. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Val Stanton. I live in the Acaquan district. I was raised in AME church, baptized in AME church. Both my children were baptized and are members of the Polhick Episcopal Church. When I started looking for a property to build a home here in Prince William County, I actually walked to this property. I hiked it and I had a home plan, a build plan and I was told that it would not support a 3,000 square foot home. So that was in 2017. So I looked for a different piece of property. I ended up buying two, three lots in Malvern Chase and the county required me to join two lots to put that 3,000 square foot home. At the bottom of that driveway, I was required to put in a 13-inch pipe for drain storm runoff. Now, this property that I'm now living on is directly south of this land, of this parcel. I don't understand how it's not a stream because I was pulled that I had to put the 13 inch pipe for the stream. We have been discussing the slope of this property, which goes from 320 down to 280. The 280 part is to the south of the property, which is me behind this property. So all of this discussion on what's being fixed in the plan is going north from the church across Davis Ford and across the street. No one has talked about going south to where I'm at. The church is not exempt from zoning laws. It has to meet jurisdiction rules. It has to meet zoning limitations. It has to meet fire code. It has to meet municipal approval. The concerns that I have are traffic and parking concerns, safety, timely movement on Davis Ford Road, issues with the sewer and water pipe water supplies because an inadequate septic requirement is and damage runoff is in my yard. No one else's mind. My well sits at the bottom of that creek. Any contamination comes to my yard. I'm opposed to the location of the church and any other commercial use of that property. Thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening Madam Chair and members of the board. My name is Susan Sanders. I live in the Achaquan district on Davis Ford Road. I appreciate the opportunity tonight to share my strong ejections to the approval of the special use permit submitted by the applicant. Approving the permit would not only set a concerning precedent but would negatively impact our community and its well-being. Therefore it is essential that you carefully consider the implications of this decision before proceeding. I purchased my home on Davis Ford Road 27 years ago because of the serene rural character. It is one of the last remaining stretches of this historic road in Prince William County. In my 27 years, I have had multiple issues with septic fields go wrong and I do pump more than every five years. I also see the storm drainage at the top of my road overflow and come down our properties because we're on a slope and you can just see it washing away and we do have established vegetation. The applicants intentions to transform this area into a bustling hub of activity pose a significant threat to our community's trans-quility and safety. The increased traffic, potential vehicle dangers, and necessary road alterations will disrupt our peaceful and rural road. Compromise our property values and negatively impact the integrity of our neighborhoods. By voting no on this permit, you will honor the existing ORPA land usage protections and zoning requirements, safeguard sensitive environmental areas, and the vital Achaquan reservoir, our water source for over 800,000 residents. Please join us in maintaining the charm and safety of our community. Your decision will make a lasting difference. I urge you to deny this permit and stand with us. The community you represent. Thank you for considering the voices of your constituents. Thank you. And I ask there is no standing by order of firemotional. Unless you are in queue to speak unless I've called up your number, I would ask that you please have a seat. Thank you so very much. I'm gonna let these people get settled before I, all right, sir. I am Jeff Singleton. I live on Davis Ford Road, and I am part of the Ockquan, Mattissieral District. I've been opposed to this from the first time I heard about it, I've attended every planning commission meeting, every mid-co meeting, any meeting about this to stand up against it. It is not the fact that it's a church. It's a fact that it's anything. Everybody will worry about our loop bar. Our loop is not a concern. I would stand right here and tell you know if you wanted to put a bar in that location. And I love a bar that I could walk home from, right? But even a bar, I would say no because it doesn't fit the character of the neighborhood. You know, every time the applicant talks, we hear them reference them. Police station, the fire station, and the church. However, what they failed to point out is as soon as you're past those, the character of Davis Ford Road changes. And you go from these commercial buildings to semi-rural residential and agricultural. This does not fit in with that. One thing I think, supervisor Boddie brought it up real someone brought it up very briefly and that was construction traffic and duration of construction. I live a quarter mile from this property. These dump trucks are going to be going by my house. I'm going to hear them. I'm going to see them. My kids are going to be standing at a bus stop right on Davis Ford Road as these construction equipment drives by. I have seen countless accidents. We heard them talk about a line of sight. Line of sight, that's great if they're doing 20 miles an hour. If you live on Davis Ford, you know the average speed going down Davis Ford is probably closer to 55 or 60. People do not obey the speed limit. It's going to create a problem. I have seen accidents where someone died across the street from my house because they were doing an excess of 70 miles an hour, lost control, went off the road and hit a tree. And what's gonna happen when you've got a police officer standing there in the road directing traffic, or a line of cars in the row of what eight cars, however many they said that could fit there, they come around that block around that curve and down that hill at 70 miles an hour and can't stop in time and hit a police officer or hit a standing cars in the road. There are many other properties in this county that would fit for this church. I wish them the best of luck finding a property. I just don't feel that Davis Ford is the appropriate property for them. Thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening board members. My name is Connie Brahan and I'm a resident of Aquand District. I'm here to strongly urge you to reject special use permit for Davis 4th Road Project. I stand firmly with my neighbors of Davis 4th who will be most directly impacted by the decision made this evening. I hope you will stand with them as well. This is not just about one development. It's about the integrity and future of our community. Ocacon district stated priorities are improving traffic safety, preserving open space and addressing the need for more affordable housing. And might I add, voters never forget the promises that are made. To accomplish these goals, it is critical to protect areas that are currently zone for residential use. Akaquan district is one of the most politically competitive district in the county and preserving the integrity of residential zone is essential to the well-being of the community. I I have no personal objections to the church or its mission the location of this project is simply not suitable. The church has the right to exist and grow, but place in a large facility a miss single family home is incompatible with the with the surrounding environment. The residents of Davis 4 will burden bear the of this decision long after church goes returned to their homes after service. The long-term consequences for the neighborhood and its residents cannot be overlooked. At its core, this project is about land use and its consequences, not the church. Allowing a commercial facility like this one proposed would alter the very nature of this community in ways that are not in the best interests of the residents. For those of you on the board, you know what right looks like. Approving this special use permit is not the right decision. It will fundamentally alter the character of the community in a way that negatively affect the lives of those who live on Davis 4 Road. A approval of this special use permit in residential zone areas undermines the ability to address the real need for housing in this county. If we are serious about providing more affordable housing, we must protect areas that are zone for residential use. The final voices tonight should be those of homeowners of Davis Ford Road and who lives lives in livelihoods are at stake. It is their decision, it is their concerns that should be given the utmost consideration. For all these reasons, I strongly urge the board to reject special use 2020 2019 for Davis 4th Road. And lastly, protecting residential zone areas is critical for maintaining character of our community. Ensuring the well-being of our residents and achieving housing goes in a sustainable and responsible way. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Before I have the next speaker, I want to call up the speakers number six through 10. So speakers number six through 10, please make your way. Be your, oh, six through 10, please make your way to the microphone at the back. I just want a few of them to go so that we're not going to be disruptive to you. All right, you may begin. My name is Steve Marsters. I am an adjacent landowner to the church property and I absolutely oppose this SUP. In addition to the significant impact to noise and traffic with cars lining up and stacked in these turn lanes and tapers in front of my house and potentially parking on our streets. The septic system Contrary to what the engineer said tonight is not sustainable for a Couple of reasons based on what he told the the planning commission in October, that it was designed to handle one, two hundred and eight seats session. I specifically asked him on several conversations, well what happens if they have two or more services the same day, he said at that time that would not handle it. So because the planning commission stated that there is no constraints on the usage of the facility, then they can, as they grow, they will just add more services. So I asked him, Mr. Savage about, well, how do they handle that? Did they just keep adding more septic tanks? And he says, no, because the geographic available space on the property would not accommodate additional tanks. So again, in a short amount of time, it would overwhelm the system. I did a little research in a 2023 analysis by ChristianStandard.com estimated a church of this size has a growth rate of about 13 and a half percent per year, which would increase within four or five years to over 300 people at any given time. So this is not even even bringing in the issues with kitchen or adding additional activities such as weddings, funerals, conferences or anything because there is no limitation to how they use the facility. So in conclusion, the permit, Health Department permit, was awarded based on a minimum and incomplete set of data of what would happen in a very short amount of time once they build it and start using the facility. And the partial land could just not sustain a large and imposing facility like this. It seems like there could be the possibility of a mini G.F.I.L.U. to me and on Davis Ford Road with depending on how they use the facility. And again, there's no holds barred on how they use facility. They say they don't- Thank you, sir. Okay, thank you for your time. Next speaker. Good evening board members. My name is Paul May. I'm a resident in the Coles district. During the course of my career over 49 years I participated in the development and construction of 104 churches throughout the Northern Virginia region. I cite those accomplishments as evidence that I have no aversion to the promotion of religious facilities. I was involved with the multitude of denominations spanning across the entire ecumenical spectrum. Based on my experience, relatively small and environmentally sensitive site nestled in a semi-rural residential neighborhood would not have been considered an appropriate site for such an intense use. I'd like to expand on Mr. Simmons' comment earlier, citing St. Elizabeth Anne's seat as a similar setting. I was involved with both the interim and the permanent churches, and at that time the church site was bounded on two sides by completely undeveloped property, well in advance of the neighborhoods, and the Catholic diocese of Arlington extended the water main and the sewer latherals to that site. By definition, the purpose of a place of assembly, a church, is to accommodate the gathering of large numbers of congregates from throughout the region. The proposed use is the antithesis of an environmental resource which fosters the habitat for a wide range of flora and fauna and provides the current residents' solitude, safety and a peaceful setting that they have sought. One needs only to look to our neighbor Fairfax County on the opposite shore of the Ocarquan Reservoir to appreciate their wisdom and foresight in protecting an irreplaceable beauty and benefits of one of northern Virginia's scarce and ever shrinking natural habitats. On the technical infrastructure, the supposition for the septic provisions, as shown on the application indicated septic field that is drastically undersized and is contrary to the discharged data for the applicant's existing facility, which is readily available from the Fairfax County Water Authority. I haven't seen such opposition from the impacted residents since the failure of the Disney America project in Western Princeframe County. The decision of the elected officials will be on display in maintaining the uninterrupted stewardship of the land. Once it's gone, it's gone. I ask for your support in denying the request based upon the inappropriate use of the land. There is an abundance of alternative sites available throughout Northern Virginia, which would better accommodate the use. Thank you. Next speaker please. Hi. My name is Dr. Erica White and my husband and I built our dream home in AquaQuant Forest five years ago, so my district is AquaQuant. In addition to being a wife and a mom, I'm a research scientist at the Smithsonian Institution National Museum of Natural History. I'm a realtor, I'm an adjunct professor at the University of Miami, and a substitute teacher here in Prince William County. I love my neighbors, the community, and the rural field of the two lane, Davis Ford Road. Our backyard is on Davis Ford, and I do not want an additional one vehicle every 32 seconds in my backyard during peak travel hours. I strongly oppose this development in this location. This project is wholly inappropriate for this parcel of land and represents a fundamental failure of responsible land use planning, environmental protection, and community trust. Approving this project would set a dangerous precedent disregarding zoning laws, compromising public safety and inflicting lasting harm on the residents, the environment, and the overall character of the area. This project violates established land use policies, the parcel design for low density, semi-rural, residential use, and a planning staff originally recommended denial due to its conflicts with the long-range land use plan. The scale of this development is entirely incompatible with the surrounding community. At over 18,000 square feet, the facility is 6 to 9 times larger than nearby homes. With a massive parking lot, they will further disrupt the landscape. The environmental impact is alarming. The project would create huge amounts of impervious surfaces and danger groundwater that supplies the aquacon reservoir which serves 800,000 people. And require road alterations that was mature, tree cover, damage orpar protections and increased pollution. Public safety is another major issue. This development would dramatically increase traffic and travel hazards on an area already overburdened semi-roll road. We all know what it is like to drive down Holi when the church lets out, and that is a multi-lane road. During the last big snow, got screwed up quickly on the two-lane road, Davis Ford, and it took hours for people to get home and the police had to come and turn people around and tell them not to use Davis Ford. My point is that it doesn't have to be snowscrewed to scrub traffic on a two-lane road. And to mirror what Jeff said, people are already speeding like crazy down that road. In fact, my husband and I were taking our daughter to school the other morning and some guy crossed the double yellow line right around us in front of Pam's house, which is right next door to this property. So I know that this is a lot, not only 30 seconds, but I also want to touch briefly on our loopa. Our loopa protects religious institutions. It does not grant automatic approval for any development simply because of a religious affiliation. Ultimately, any project must be compatible with its surrounding environment. The impacts of this development cannot be reasonably mitigated just as would be true for any comparable project of this scale and dislocation. Our looper does not override responsible land use policy and local governments can and should reject developments that are simply not appropriate for a given site. Thank you. I'm going to ask, and've said this, you know, I appreciate people have been quiet, no outbursts, but even the snapping, you know, I want to make sure that we get to everyone. So next speaker. I'm Pam Marsters. I live on Alfred Valley Lane and I am the property owner living right next door to the proposed special permit facility. I am very concerned about safety and the traffic and I'm really shocked that the traffic expert came on a Sunday and said, oh, there's no traffic. It's good. I live on Davis Ford Road and I can guarantee you and would encourage anyone to hang out with me at my home. That traffic is not safe, it's a two-lane rural road. So the first thing they're going to do close to the church is add lanes, which will be backed up. And they'll be bottlenecks. And there's going to be problems. I think it's wonderful that they said that they're going to rent a school parking lot and bus participants in. But who is going to police that? Who will enforce that? Who do we call when that doesn't happen? And they're parked in front of my house, beside my house, all through my neighborhood, where there are no sidewalks. If they park there, it's very dangerous. The only way they can get to the proposed facility is to cut through, trespass through my yard or walk on the road. So I think you need to consider that and because we have no sidewalks. And it's a very big issue. You also talked about that there would only be two services, but there's all the bonus services. And there's the Friday night that doesn't start till 9 o'clock and goes to midnight. So like you said, weddings and funerals and baby showers and everything that people do at church, there's a lot of activities and a lot of folks and that's a lot of traffic and a danger to the community and no way there's no checks and balances you know the church keeps saying we'll do this and we'll do that who's gonna police it who's gonna enforce it and quite frankly I just don't see the trust. I'm also very concerned that this light lot is very small with a very bad terrain and they are proposing to put a 35 foot three story ginormous building knocked down all the trees and disrupt the community and with this huge building and we've talked about the rain and the runoff and that doesn't seem to be a problem when this is like a gully thing. You're not even thinking about the Achaquan resource protection Area that this building is just a huge ginormous building. Thank you very much. Oh god I'm not done. Oh well I'm sorry next speaker. I'm sorry next speaker. Okay thank you. Thank you. And before you begin sir I want to call 11 through 15. All right. You may go ahead. Thank you. Thank you. Hello. My name is Patrick White and I reside in Ocaquan Forest, which is directly off of Davis Ford Road. I am a lifelong resident of Prince William County. I am speaking tonight to express my opposition to the special use permit for the proposed development on Davis Ford Road. My wife and I chose Ocaquan Forest as our home and place of raising our children because of its unique character within Prince William County. This is our sanctuary. As the information security officer for GDIT, I am dedicated to safeguarding our nation's critical infrastructure from cyber threats. However, I am also deeply committed to protecting the homes and neighborhoods of Prince William County. I urge you to consider the concerns of the residents of the Davis Ford Road corridor who overwhelmingly oppose this permit. We are the people who would be directly impacted by this development. Achaquan Forest is one of the last remaining rural residential areas in the region. And if this special use permit is approved, it would have a significant negative impact on both current residents and potential future residents. The proposed building does not align with the character of the surrounding area as stated by the developer. There are no other buildings of this type in the residential area along Davis Ward Road. Following our most recent hearing on the special use permit the pastor's service Service that Sunday addressed our actions as foolish. A few weeks later, when we met with the supervisor Bodhi, the link to the YouTube video was shared in our virtual meeting to ensure his awareness of these comments. However, minutes later, the video was made private. This raises questions about their intentions and the presence of an individual on the Akakwan community call who was not a resident. Does this situation align with the previous statements regarding this project's desire to integrate into our community? Also, as Supervisor Bodhi brought up, there are month-long services. Where was this in their presentation? Where were the two services that were later mentioned that would occur on Sunday in the presentation? We would expect them to be forthcoming with their plans and not downplay the number of people visiting on their busiest day yet over-engineer their septic to support a much higher number of people when they do have these planned bursts. Reading between the lines, they do plan to host much more than they passed for here tonight tonight, directly impacting us residents. I implore you to deny this permit and preserve the neighborhood as a residential area, our homes and our community deserve your protection. Thank you for the time. Next speaker please. Good evening board members. Thank you for the opportunity to voice my opinion. My name is Earl Cronin I live on single-o-kill court just be behind this building not too far. I'm not quite as elegant as everybody else and I don't have a lot of notes and I guarantee I'm not gonna talk real fast but I do want to talk to the guy who wants that bar back there. I wouldn't mind getting together with him. There are so many things wrong with this project. You're going to hear him over and over again. Let him sink in. Hear him and hear him again and again and again, because they're not going to change. It's not, nothing's different. The first time this went through the Planning Commission, it was disapproved, as it should be, as you should disapprove it. And it's not the first time that the board will disapprove a church in this area. How many of you are familiar with St. Margaret's? Anybody? No. You need to do some research. That was just not a half mile from here. St. Margaret's was refused. A white church. Okay? It didn't fit. This doesn't fit. You've got a problem. You're trying to take a square peg and fit in and around hole. OK? The folks that did their due diligence or didn't do their due diligence, when they purchased that lot, remind me of the movie with Harrison Ford and Raiders of the York and the Chalice where the guy was going to drink the water from the Chalice. Somebody did not choose wisely. They did not choose wisely. Don't penalize the people of that area, me and the other residents because these people didn't do due diligence. It's not It's not my fault. If you were, if you're gonna listen to the, to the realtor, that's your fault, not mine. Now, I'm gonna solve your problem. I'm gonna make this all go away. Right up the road here, just up the road. Not, you can, in fact, you can walk out here and throw a rock and hit property that they could go that church on. The county needs to give them that piece of land next to the fire department that has all that wooded area that you can cut down and they can have that. Work out a deal with the pastor. Take that property and give them that up there at the corner prime property for a church There's your your solution I'll be available for lunch all day all well next week all right and I'm gonna give you 23 seconds back because you're gonna You've got a long night ahead of you Next speaker please Good evening my name is Klayhi and I am a resident of the Ocaquan District. I actually live in Cricket Creek right off of Davis Ford. I grew up in Prince William County. This is my home and I've decided to return as an adult. As a child, I love traveling Davis Ford Road with its beautiful hills, its vast towering trees, and its glistening river. It was like an oasis, especially in the summer. The magic I experienced as a child did not fade when I grew up. My concern with this commercial development of this lot is that it could potentially give other commercial entities grounds to do the same in the future. Davis Ford would no longer be our beautiful wooded residential road. Such commercial growth would also result in additional traffic on our small two-lane residential road. Davis Ford residents already must contend every single day with the drivers using it to travel to DC and the area surrounding. It's important to note that the residents of Davis Ford Road and the surrounding community would feel this way about any commercial entity attempting to rezone the property, whether it be a church, a grocery store, or a nail salon. We simply wish to keep our little residential road, simply as that residential. Members of the board, I implore you to consider the voices of your community, your community, our community, especially the residents of Davis Ford Road. See the over 1,400 names on the petition opposing this permit. And please vote to oppose that commercial development and any future development commercially on Davis Ford Road. Thank you so much. All right, I just wanna be careful. The blue forward to the lady in the white, because the. Oh, was moving. All right. Next speaker, please. Hi there. My name is Hina. I live in the Aquan, my gestural district. My eyesight must be really bad because I cannot read any of your names on those things over there. But it is way past my bedtime, so I'm going to try to make this brief. But I've lived in Prince William County for 40 years. Don't do the math. And we just moved to Davis, Florida in 2007. And it is a nightmare to get up and down Davis, Florida road in the morning when you're trying to go down towards the Clifton Road, or in my case, you're going towards work and an asses, and you're like, I'm never going to make it. This kind of construction that you're talking about, they were repaving the road. What was it? Three years ago, you couldn't get anywhere. You got stuck. And I mean, sometimes you have a bathroom emergency. You're never going to get home. And what are you going to do? You can't stop and knock on your neighbors. I guess I can now, because now everybody knows my name. But I mean, this is ridiculous. I mean, you're just talking about years and years. I mean, this is an 18,000 square foot building. It's gonna take my entire adult life to see you get built, probably, and the way that they want you. And I love God. I'm all about God. years. I mean, this is an 18,000 square foot building. It's going to take my entire adult life to see it get built, probably, and the way that they want to. And I love God. I'm all about God. Yay, God. Amen for God. But God does not have to be in my backyard. You know, you can bring God wherever you go. Just get your holy book, put it in your car. You're good to go. But you don't need to build a massive church in our backyard, where it's It's gonna be completely inconvenient for everybody who lives there. And somebody was saying about the snow, my god, have you guys big- Ah. massive church in our backyard where it's going to be completely inconvenient for everybody who lives there and somebody was saying about the snow my god have you guys big You were saying that you were on the they're on snow my god. It's like a ice-shrink out there And I know that we treat it, but you know you're just asking for more accidents And I don't really want to see anybody getting carted out in black fatality bags if I don't have to so that that's really I think I all I'd say. All right, thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening. I'm on Anglehotboth here. Please, I'm sorry, speak local just a microphone. And I live at 11652 Harvard's Alain. I'm in the Oco 1, my gesterial district. What I'm mostly disturbed this evening was when I saw the first speaker, I was Walt Stanton. She's the one that bought the property in 2007. The property we are talking about to build a 3000 square foot house. She was told, it's hard to believe that the property was too big for the site, that the lot only perked for a three bedroom house, that the top topography was too steep, that the salts were erodable, and that the environmental resource area made up nearly half of the parcel, and so on, and so on. So, when she was denied by the planning people, she kept looking and bought the property right behind below it. And now she on top of everything, she will get literally all the shit that's flowing down from that property. It could be stormwater, it's the regular runoff, runoff from impervious surfaces, the parking surfaces, everybody knows about that. And of course, when anything goes wrong with the septic tank, which is supposed to be predicted. There's not really what I wanted to say, but I was a poet when I heard about Mrs. Stanton. About Relupa. Relupa is not a law that gives religious institutions special rights. All it says is that religious institutions have to be treated on equal terms. That's exactly the law language, equal terms like any other assembly, club, organization, whatever. I don't know what the board is trying to do by constantly pointing out Rolupa or Rolupa. We need to do something about that. Well, you will get sued if you do that. It will not work. The neighbors are up and arms about it. We will not be discriminated against like Mrs. Denton was. The traffic study, there was interesting to hear about that from Wontoni. I I used to work with him on the H.O.A. in Cannon Bluff. He did the traffic study five years ago. V.R.W.E.L.S. you all know that, have changed since then. So what's the point, telling us about this old traffic study? You want to convince us that there is not a traffic problem. We already luckily have heard from supervisor Viere, he has serious concerns. Supervisor Bodhi had some concerns. I was really pleased that at least some of you had some questions about it and some concerns about it and I hope that you will listen to all the other residents that will show up here because we are emotional about it, what is going to happen. And it's not just because one person complain and was discriminated against. It's 1400 people who are complaining. Next speaker, please. Good evening, Madam Chair, members of the board. My name is Cara Graham. I'm a resident of Prince William County and I have lived on Davis Ford Road for 25 years. I'm here tonight to ask you to vote no to the special use permit. Special use permits are a privilege that our county extends to land use outside of its intended purpose. Churches are businesses. They're quasi-political based on how leadership is elected or appointed, but they're a business. So if you would say no to a convenience store, a retail store, a big box store, or any other type of commercial entity, then you should vote no to this special use permit. All right. Before I call next speaker, I would like speakers 18, I'm sorry, 16 through 20 to go to the the back, 6th chain through 20. So I'm going to speak fast. I'm going to make some random valid points. So please try to keep up. Speak into the mic just a little bit more. I'm going to speak fast. I'm going to make some random valid points because of the arguments that were made. Mrs. Vega, Ms. Vega, I voted for you when I lived in Woodbine Woods. And now I lived on Davis Ford Road. I moved to America, Dail Boulevard. I lived in Haudley, right behind Penn Elementary. I went to Bevel Middle School where I got all my jokes at the lunch table, I went to Osborne Park, I graduated third of my class, I went to UVA, I graduated with an economics degree, I bought my house on Davis Ford Road right behind where they're going to build this on Beachview Creek Drive right next to Steve. And first and foremost, I want to God bless everybody here. You know, I hope this finds you and the family well. It's not about God, it's about a building. A building that is going to be here. I love basketball. I would love an elephantness right here, right behind my house. But no, because this is residential, it hurts our community, it hurts our value. I would love a theater here. Theater doesn't work out. So apparently 85% of this this Foraker property is gonna be used from me to where you are sitting is 40 50 feet So it's 30 feet of just grass here behind my house is 30 feet of property right next to Steve and I have Sawd there and water rushes through sawd is the most absorbent thing and water rushes through like a river okay I I I've lived here, I've moved here by five miles since coming to America. It's not about God is the most absorbent thing and water rushes through like a river. Okay? I've lived here. I've moved here about five miles since coming to America. It's not about God. It's about the placement of it being here. Right now, as you approach that corner, there's reats there because somebody just died there because there's a straightaway. And then the road literally turns 45 degrees and then another straightaway. So now multiple times a week, we're going to have police officers come and facilitate traffic when there's only perk for a three bedroom. So I like a grandparents and a grandchild or three people should be living there. Three bedrooms. I perk for a four bedroom. One time my toilet was running at 10 o'clock when I went to sleep my toilet kept running at two o'clock my alarm went off. There's flooding in my house and my drain is going up. It's going to happen. I lived there for two years. I just bought my home there. I do not want this there because it does not match. It does not fit. There's just no way. There should be a 10-0 vote. Like on my God, there's so many points against this. Unholy, they'll do beautiful church there. Braddock Road Fairfax is smart. They put all their churches on Braddock Road. Clifton is beautiful. Davis Ford is beautiful. You turn on to there. Braddock Road, Fairfax is smart. They put all their churches in our Braddock Road. Clifton is beautiful. Davis Ford is beautiful. You turn on to there. It's gorgeous. Yes, there's a church on the corner. So put a church on the corner. But from there to the bridge, there is nothing. It's a residential. Would you want something a big building behind your house? And your residential? It's residential for us, for us, Davis Ford people. Okay, this should be a 10-0 vote. All right, God bless you guys. You guys bought in 2018-19. That means y'all made money. It's residential for us, for us, Davis Ford people. Okay, this should be a 10-0 vote. All right, God bless you guys. You guys bought in 28-19. That means y'all made money. Sell this property to a family, a small family to build their small home and take that profit and put a down payment on your Springfield House and make a new church. This is crazy. This should be a 10-0 vote. Your first instinct in the planning permit said no. And then somebody something changed in October. Now we're saying yes. Now we're all here. And now somebody something changed in October. Now we're saying yes. Now we're all here. And now if it's denied, they could come back here in two years. We're all be rejoined. I love these neighbors. We love each other. It just doesn't fit here. This is a 10-0. No way this can be permitted. And then please sell. Please sell by a sick property by a big growing church. Don't fit it 85%. Thank you so very much. I love the energy. However, next speaker, next speaker. And I want to repeat, when it is your time, I'm trying to be respectful and accommodate everyone. What is your time to speak? Speak. We have a time limit. Please honor that so other people will have a chance. You may go. My name is Edmund Andrews, I'm with the Aqua District. I will first talk about Orpa, non-residential floor. Can you bring the microphone a little closer? I will first talk about Orpan non-residential floor area ratios for the proposed site. According to the staff report for the proposed building the Orpan non-residential floor area ratio target is between 0 and 0.02. We could not find any references to what the calculated ratio is for the proposed building that we can make an estimate as follows. To estimate the floor area ratio, we take the gross floor area of the building of 18.4 thousand square feet divided by the total lot size of 4.5 acres that is equivalent to 186,000 square feet, which results in an estimated floor area ratio value of 0.1. This is five times the maximum orpah targeted floor area ratio of 0.02 we mentioned above. The ratio estimate of 0.1 that the proposed side will have assumes a 100% buildable land space. If the actual buildable land space were less, say 75%, the rough average in Virginia, then the floor area ratio value would be larger by 6.6 times the orbitpa target. At 50% of buildable land space, typical of non-flat parcels such as the proposed site, then the floor area ratio would be even higher at 10 times the Orpa target. Looking at it in a different way, for a building to meet the Orpa target in the proposed lot, assuming the 100% buildable land space, the maximum size of the building would have to be smaller than 3,700 square foot. At 75% buildable land, it would be smaller than 2,800 square feet and finally at 50% buildable land, which is more reflective of the proposed site, it would have to be smaller than 1,850 square feet. Please note that these OPPA guidelines are specifically directed at non-resident sites. Next, I will address U.S. average church in capacity and size. To better understand the proposed building size, a search on the internet reveals that in the US, the average capacity of a church is 200 people. In the average building size is 2,000 to 6,000 square feet. This would suggest that the proposed building at 18,000 plus square feet would be capable of supporting a vastly larger congregation than indicated in the proposal. For all these reasons and for those that were I've been mentioned before, I oppose this project. Next speaker, please. Craig Westney, Aquacorn District. So grateful to have a board of supervisors willingin to support our county and our diverse communities and listen to our communities constituents of our communities in our interests. So thank you. This church project is a square peg and a round hole is actually somebody stated earlier from forcing the special use permitting process to squeezing the nearly 19,000 square foot building onto a four and a half acre property. Can it be done? Sure, it can be done. And we've had several architects, engineers, soil scientists, and experts tell us how it could be done. And as we all know, numbers and data can be manipulated to tell us anything we want in the positive outcomes we would like to see. The real question here is should it be done? There are dozens of technical reasons, structurally, environmentally, water and sewer, and community why it shouldn't be done. Staff even articulated the complexity of this project and the fact that it needed eight revisions over five years to get to the point where we are today still discussing this project. And I also stayed in several points of the presentation the concerning statement and I'll quote at this time and as you've heard several times this project is so oversized for the community, the church community, which it says it'll represent, it is completely unfathomable why such a large building should consume 85% of this property. And we haven't spoken enough about community. A church should represent the community that it's part of. It should be supported by the community. It should be welcomed by the community. It should benefit the community. As I said, this church project is a square peg in a round hole because it's not part of the community. It's a church business looking to develop land in a location which is not technically suited for the proposed project. Hence the special use project has to support a special use permit but the church hasn't even reached out to talk to the community directly to integrate and discuss why this is the right spot for their church community. I asked the board of supervisor, elected to protect the interest of our county and our communities. How does this project, by an outside entity, benefit a community that is clearly opposed to it? What financial benefit to the county is there, given that this is a tax exempt church? Thank you for listening to the voices of community who will be impacted by this project, and I ask that you vote no. Thank you. Next speaker please. Yes, good evening, Chair Jefferson and Board of Supervisors. I'm Mary Lauren from Yatesford Road and I'm in the Coles District. After so many of your constituents and others who travel Davis Ford Road have objected to the proposed placement for this church, I cannot believe that this special use permit is again coming up for a public hearing and board vote tonight. It is very very disheartening and vexing to have our supervisors encourage this church to locate on residential lot among a settled community of homes where it will infringe on their right to enjoy a peaceful home. I am a taxpayer who have lived on Yehzford Road and on Davis Ford Road for over 24 years. And I know many along the route who have lived here longer than me. Many are senior citizens. The homeowners adjacent to this site already are placing their lives in God's hands when they enter or exit their driveways, as I do when I exit and enter my lane because of the traffic on Yates Road. I'm joining all my neighbors who are petitioning the board to listen to us and vote no on this unsuitable use of 54051 Davis Ford Road. We are your constituents and what is the point of having a public hearing if you're not hearing us and not concerned about our welfare. If two homes were built on this lot, there would likely be six vehicles. There would also be an assessment value of at least a million dollars. The transportation paragraph and the staff report does not address the real issue. Having someone directing traffic will only increase the danger here. to V.R. Records, the last traffic count on Davis Road Road was 2023. Because true traffic has now returned to the more than pre-prandemic levels, it is unconscionable to be considering approving the addition of 200 plus vehicle trips on the secondary road without a new count and traffic flow. If you vote yes for this myth, you are endangering my life and all of those who travel Davis Ford Road. You personally and the board should be held liable for any future accidents along this stretch of road. You are aware that not all of the traffic going to this church would come up from the parkway. It would be coming down from Yatesford Road. We had a fatal crash at that intersection on April 15, 2024, and at least five other vicular accidents last year. A flag person was killed at the Northern Blank Corner and a motorcyclist at the Southern Blank Corner from this site. There was also a property damage on January 6, 2024. Just last week, I was three cars behind a school bus going out when it rounded the corner and turned into Alfred Valley Road. The vehicle behind me couldn't see the bus and had not slowed down and narrowly missed rear-ending me. On October 30, 2024, there was a property damage damage accident north of River Heights. There will be vehicles along the road and pedestrians. Please vote no. Thank you. Next speaker. Madam Chairman, members of the board, good evening. Jack, I would like to ask for five minutes if I could as president. Thank you. Yes, sir. I just I'm in the Ockachon Magisterial District as a resident. Transformation temple in a national formally the International Central Gospel Church began their outreach to and Mco and Loka Pelt in June of 2020. June, July, August. So Loka Pelt met August 6th with Pastor Sadiq Arthur and some of the principles of the church. And the first thing we did was when we looked at the site, we said, gee, you really need to be on public water and sewer. Now this site has public water that they have. So this is good. But and it's adequate. And that was confirmed by Prince William Water. But the sewer is a problematic issue. So the first instinct by the Pell Committee was, gee, we really want the church to locate in Prince William County. Now that's an honest statement. The committee said, we want you here in Prince William County. But the site that committee turned to was the Salons site right on Minerville Road because it has water and sewer, parking, actually the buildings are there. Well, it turns out the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is there, but we were thinking they had excess capacity and we thought, gee, you should look at that. But they didn't buy the site on a contingency. They put money down. The realtor should have never done that to them. And they put all their eggs in that basket. And so one of the misses that we have from the former Pelt Chairman, Tom Barrell, who was Pelt Chairman for 23 years, he would say to us. He was in the military, he went to West Point, he was a straight-hour shooter. And he said, hey guys, if the Board of County supervisors approve something that you see has a problem, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to say, oh gee, we should have worked with them. So he encouraged us to try to take an SUV that is designed to mitigate adverse impacts and try to work on them and massage them to see if we could get a solution. But I'll tell you, we've been on and off on this one. We had some, the church stopped at one point when we had some issues with the Plenty Commission and to work on understanding that we'd only have one phase. Because when Reverend Arthur came to us, he had visions of sugar plums for, he wanted to invite the community to use the facilities and all of that. But as we looked at it, we saw safety on the road. Why wasn't this site developed? If you look at 50,000 foot view of Davis Ford Road, there's just homes on well and septic. The police station at the head of Davis Ford Road toward the parkway and the church, they're on public sewer down there. They don't have septic there. This site has septic but it has all those orpriced challenges. It's got the topography, the highly erotable soils, the steep slope there is, the clearing of the tree cover. And then so then what our concerns were, the two people that live at the bottom of the site, we don't want their septic systems to be overloaded by improper management of stormwater because we have sheet flow across Davis, Florida road. So we worked on traffic mitigation, waste management. We asked for a robust septic system, but we have storm water that's really problematic. And we looked at that and said we have more work to do on that to be comfortable with it. Actually, we've taken it from 2020 to the present time. Here we are, 2025, and we still have issues. So we're not comfortable with this going forward as an approval. And we see more work needing. but if you turn it down, we have a list of churches they can work with to locate in Prince William County. We'd love to sit down with Olawn and Reverend Cedigarthur and talk about those choices as well. Thank you very much. I'm sorry that we have we worked as hard as we could on it. We love the congregation. We want them to be in Prince William County, but we have problems with this site. It's the site, not the people. People are great. It's the site. Thank you. So, before I call the next speaker can 21 through 25 make their way to the back. 21 through 25 make their way to the back? 21 through 25. Good evening. Madam Chairman and members of the Board of Supervisors. I've been doing this for 52 years. I just figured out tonight. So this is not my first rodeo. I want to say, Reyekko Watjak said, we want your congregation, a very impressive congregation, to come to Prince William County because we know you can make a better than we are now. My concern is that we don't let you guys get screwed in the process. This is a high risk project, and there's a lot of things that can go wrong. And you saw tonight having things that could go wrong, and what they did is they hid them all in the site plan review. Well, when they tell you a site plan, trust us. Be very cautious, because that's how they screw you. I'm just going to talk about some things for mitigation. One, we should have no sheet flow off of the site during a storm. So that the nose storm gets off the site into the neighboring houses. There should be a trass fence at the bottom of the site to pick up all the trash that gets washed through every time there's the storm. The storm water standard in the county is the 10-year storm water which we get every three days during the summertime. It's ridiculously low and the state needs to unscrew that. What do we plan? You're going to need a plan of what you're gonna do when a 50 or 100-year storm is predicted. Okay, one of the things that occurred to me that you could do was build a concrete block fence across the bottom of the property so that your parking lot could be turned into a swimming pool temporarily. Remember cars float. They've just seen it on TV time and time after time. If there's a big storm and you guys are all in the services, your cars are gonna float right down that hill and into the Acha Kwan. And I want to know which one of the board of supervisors is gonna go going to go down there and haul them back out because they approve of this if they do. So I think you should have a contract with the pump company in case you do get to a high level watermark in the sewer storage areas. and so that if you get to the high watermark you can say this is the number we call and they send a pump truck out to take the excess out traffic there should be two lights installed on Davis Ward Road to stop traffic 500 meters on either side of your entrance finally Finally, I'd like to suggest to the staff that you put addresses in the SUP permits in the agenda so we can do our own map studies. We don't have an address so you can't go to Google Maps and find out what's going on and what we're doing to your neighbors. Thank you very much. God bless you. Welcome aboard, or stand by for interesting times. Thank you, board, for listening to me. My name is Michael Dangerfield. I'm an Aquacron District resident and I'm living in the affected Davis Ford resident area and I've been living in this area for 27 years. I request you to deny the special use permit for the International Central Gospel Church. This project is wrong for the community and violates all the policies established for land use in Prince William County. I just want to pass on what is I've ever sustained in my interactions with the pastor and church members since 2019 when this proposal first came up through mid-co and other meetings. They freely emit using the Religious Land Use and Institution on the Person's Act as a battering ram the forced Prince William County officials to approve an application that should be denied based on the merits of not meeting evidentially thresholds required for approval. I've asked a team of engineers and environmental people who work for me at the Pentagon to review the prohibition. They all state the site cannot support the proposed septic system. They fully endorse the original Prince William County planning documents, which state that it can barely support a three bedroom per versus the 18,416 square foot church. To quote the original June 23rd, 23 Prince William County staff report, the proposed is larger and greater intensity than a residential usage in a surrounding area. In addition, environmental constraints containing steep soils and un-unsuitable soils exist on the site. Therefore, the staff is recommending a planning commission, recommend denial at the special use permit. It's very apparent that the documentation of Prince William Planning Office and the Planning Commission have really planted this application to the supervisors for a decision rather than deny it based on the overwhelming evidence. They merely state approval with no change in staff report other than based on a revised septic plan which was submitted by the applicant. However, the plan was not part of the report and never presented to the Planning Commission in the meeting that occurred last year. This doesn't pass the common sense test. How can a system with users range from 50 to 20 per day, seven days a week, process waste percolated on this site or does it merely release untreated waste on the site, thus contaminating surrounding areas, and the aquifers that we all rely on for our water. You've heard about the septic purse and he gave some initial low-ball estimates required of basically five gallons per seat. That's incorrect assumptions. He, again, did not address all the services they have. There are some wealth inside and outside Prince William County that the religious land use and institution of personal act prevents denying a land use application. The ripple is very straightforward. It simply requires local governments apply the same standards of scrutiny to both religious and secular land uses. It requires the board of supervisors to apply the same standard of scrutiny to this religious applicant as it would to a secular applicant. It requires the Board to implement and enforce land use regulations on this project exactly as it would for a secular project. Thank you very much sir. You're talking about. Thank you. Good evening Board. My name is Catherine Duncan and I live in the Woodbridge District. I'm going to touch on an issue that we've touched on previously, but I want to reiterate a few points. Specifically, the transformations, temples, proposed septic system. From our perspective, we do feel that the septic approval is invalid. When the Virginia Department of Health approved the proposed septic system the applicant never provided his current facility usage and this has been a point that's been brought up multiple times tonight. The concern is with regard to the actual usage. Currently the facility usage data at the Springfield location which is a commercial facility highlights that more than a thousand gallons per day is what needs to be accounted for and therefore it requires a separate permitting. The discrepancy is largely due to the fact that the applicant only requested approval for weekly services which we've talked about but in reality they frequently use the building for other events. We've also talked about that on consecutive days so definitely there's just concern with regard to the increasing use at this facility and in result at the increasing use of their septic system. The data clearly proves that the plan septic system that's been proposed isn't necessarily is inadequate for use of this congregation, especially if it does continue to grow. We've also talked about that concern. So when this publicly available information was purported to the VDH by residents of the community, VDH explained that we can only issue a permit based on information provided by the owner and system designator at the time of permit issuance. So once again, we're getting back to the point that we feel like the permit initially was invalid when it was submitted or when it was approved. So from the VDH perspective, another official said the VDH's hands are tied at the moment. It's plainly dishonest to use the VDH approval as evidence that the septic plans are adequate. That approval was based on the applicant's intentional exclusion of vital facts that would have reversed the outcome. VDH affirmed that the applicant's septic system would be adequate for their inaccurately predicted use, that did not change the fact that the PWC division of engineering and planning clearly prohibited the applicant from using a septic system at all for its disposal of sewage waste, requiring them to use public water and sewer. This was explicitly stated by the professional engineer, David Algera, in a memo on March 16, 2020 to the PWC Planning Office. He wrote the subject property is required to utilize public water and sewer to develop. In this same memo, he also acknowledged that the public sewer is 6,200 feet north of the property. The VDH approval that was based on inaccurate information has in turn been used as the whole sole justification for moves by other county officials departments agencies. Most importantly, the PWC planning staff, the planning staff should on this deeply flawed VDH approval as the only support for their recommendation to the planning commission to approve the sub. It's the obligation of the board to look at all the relevant facts, not just rubber stamp or project. For the reason reasons we strongly urge you to deny the up for the transformational temple. So thank you. Thank you very much. Next speaker please. Good evening. Thank you for having this hearing tonight. My name is Sean Miller. I've been a resident of Prince William County the last six years. I'm in the Ockaquan district. My family and I live in Ockaquan Forest in that neighborhood, which is composed of roughly 240 family homes. I'm also on the Ockaquan HOA. I can tell you as an active person in that community, nearly everyone is concerned and strongly opposed to this special building permit. And against this disruptive 18,000 square foot development, one and a half miles down the road from our community. I have to travel Davis Ford Road every day to go to Fort Belvoir where I work as a DOD civilian. I'm worried about the introduction of new traffic hazards, congestion, safety issues on this narrow rural road especially as the father of a 17-year-old new driver. As a volunteer Virginia Department of Wildlife Resources Instructor, I'm seriously concerned about drainage and additional stress on this watershed we all love. The church has purchased the land and the special permit allows bending the rules that Val was required to follow when she wanted to buy that property and build her 3,000 square foot home. Her house now will be impacted negatively by the erosion, the runoff, and the construction from the septic system problems that will happen and the well that she has just adjacent to it in the future. There should be no special exceptions. This permit is special in that it will open the floodgates for more special exceptions, changing our rural community for the worse. Please vote no. This permit should have never gotten this far. I also believe this should be a 10-0 vote in favor of the residents. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Ms. Maynes, before you begin, if I could call the next group up, please. Group from number 26 to 30, if you could come in and get lined up. 26, 27, 28, 29 and 30. Thank you, Ms. B. Thank you. My name is Lee Salmane and my family has lived in Prince William County since 2010. Our property is just directly north of the Transformation Temple Church Proposed site. We live on wide oak court, which is in the Ocaquan Oaks neighborhood. So that makes us the Achaquan, a magisterial district. Our property and our home can be seen in your aerial photos like in the staff report. And on our property is a creek that runs all year long. There's water in it all year long. And it goes directly down to the Achaquan. I'd like to speak today about two things, primarily about the traffic impact and the environmental impact. So the entrance for the proposed site for the church is just 842 feet from the entrance to our neighborhood. And according to the special use permit, the church is expecting to have the Sunday services, Wednesday, Friday services, but they're also expecting to have Easter Christmas, anniversaries, weddings, and funerals. This I'm just reading from what they had written, with those four special events that might last 20 days. And this is a lot of vehicle use. So again, quoting from the documents there, they expect around 140 daily vehicle trips. And this surprises me. I don't understand the number. I went and double checked my computer. It's on page 20 of that report. 579 vehicle trips on Sunday, with an average of an all quote. The applicant estimates the site will generate 251 vehicle trips per day. So I won't go with the 579 vehicle trips on Sunday because I don't understand the math if they only have 208 people and even if you double that that's you know Let's not go with that one. We'll go with the smaller number So if you take my neighborhood which has 42 to 45 houses that means that every person in a five member household like mine will break out and leave the neighborhood to drive out onto Davis Ford Road. That's five extra trips per household in our neighborhood. And I just wanted to break that down with some real numbers. That's a lot of traffic that's going to leave on Sunday. And like it says, they're estimating 251 vehicle trips per day. So I don't understand why they wrote that. I'm just quoting from that document. So I guess I don't have time to talk about the environmental issues that I have with the property. A lot of people have spoken that. But I just wanted to thank you for listening to all of us who have concerns. Thank you. Next speaker please. Hello all. My name is Jessica Householder. I live in the Ockichon District and I oppose this project. Please adjust the mic a little closer because your soft spoke. If you're soft spoken, I have my mic real close because sometimes we need a little extra. Is this good? Yes, ma'am. There we go. Okay. So I'm Jessica Householder. I live in the Ockichon District and I oppose this project. The insuitable piece of property in question is far from the only location available to this church. Search us through in the Ocaquan District and I oppose this project. The unsuitable piece of property in question is far from the only location available to this church. Searches throughout this application process consistently revealed multiple appropriately sized commercial spaces for a congregation this large, multiple available church facilities that they could immediately occupy, and multiple parcels of land on the market that are already appropriately zoned and sized for a project like this. The applicant was informed by multiple individuals, community groups and county officials of many suitable and available alternative options within Prince William County. If the applicant had pursued any of these options, they could have settled into a new location years ago. Many of these options would have cost them much less money, would not have come with any rezoning difficulties, and would have provided far more room for any expansion that they desire. There's absolutely no need to squeeze this church into this unsuitable piece of property. As our community has done during this entire process, we respectfully urge the for your time. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. on name is D. T. Naylor. I live on Davis Ford Road in the Aquandistic. My family and I lived, owned and lived on Davis Ford Road directly across from this project site, which is located on Davis Ford Road. For more than 23 years we have lived there. And I agree with the previous speakers who are against this project and will try to tailor my speech around what has already been said. You have heard or will hear from members of the church sharing their life altering stories and what brought them to this church. These are all wonderful heartwarming stories, but this church and the congregation are not location specific and this location does not affect its members. There are other sites locations that the church could consider to be a better fit and accommodate the growth and expansion they're planning for the future. The churches that were cited a reference in the beginning of this are on larger lots. Let's see. The original plans report, dated June 14th, 23, recommended denial and saying that it would have a negative impact on the community, nothing has changed. And they said that insisted that the public necessity convenience, general welfare and good zoning practice are served by recommending denial of this request. Nothing has changed and I also concur with that denial. If there's police service at that at the intersections with the church, where the police cars park, there's no shoulder. There's no place for them to go. They also said that the water, public water, so that there was adequate usage. That site would be the first customer on the line to Ocaquan forest, so that should affect Ocaquan forest pressure and water if it's all stopping there. So at the commission and in the water, the septic system, they testified that the public hearing only one Sunday service, one Wednesday evening and one Friday evening. And the septic system then was said that it's only good for one service on Sunday. Today is the first time we've heard of a change to their services on Sunday, which again means they plan on growing. There's not enough room on this site for growth. Again, this is going to set a permanent precedent for more commercial and non-residential projects on Davis Ford Road. So I would like to ask you to vote to deny this stuff. Thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening. Red Michael and Occoquan District. Thanks for everyone for being here. I've never been to any of these meetings in my life. This is actually the first time. The reason why I'm here is because I know how important this is. As you've heard from everyone, residents, your constituents are totally against this project. Therefore, everyone here should vote against it. It's obviously what people are talking about, the location of it, it's not for anything other than a residential home, a single family home. And when people are saying, well, it's going to blend in with the community, it's going to stick out like a sore thumb. It's an 18,000 square foot structure that construction will take years. There will be probably a thousand dump trucks coming in to hallway dirt. There's going to be a 20 foot retaining wall. So it's just it's something not for this community. And I think that you should definitely vote obviously against this. And for the people who live very, very close to this possible, hopefully there's not going to be any construction site here, their properties are going to wind up like a swimming pool. And it's going to negatively affect a lot of the neighbors here in the community, the homes, the home values. So I urge everyone here to vote against this project. Thank you for your time. All right, before the next speaker goes, I'd like to call up our next group, and that is 31 through 35. So if you are speakers 31 through 35, I don't, come on now. I'd say, come on, I know we've got more people. 31 through 35 coming once twice. All right, go, sir. Great, thank you for the time. My name's Colin Wellborne. I'm a resident of Spring Lake Estates, which is off of River Forest. I want to start by saying, I'm a Republican. my wife's a Democrat and I voted for Kenny Boate and the reason I did that is because you came to my door, you knocked, you talked, and you asked for my vote and I didn't see that from anybody else who was running and I'd like to think that those of you who were also on the board did the same to earn the votes of your constituents. I'm also a combat veteran. I served for years in the special operations in the intelligence community, going after our nation's hardest targets and planning missions of vital national interest. So as you look and prepare to vote for this, and I know many of you on the board are former military members. I want you to think, would you launch a mission based on bad data, bad out data data? And that's a lot of what we've been seeing tonight. We've been seeing traffic studies from 2022, 2023, while we were still in the height of COVID. We've been seeing data on traffic where the study was conducted on a Sunday and used to be comparable to current traffic on a weekday night during our commutes. How in the world could that be feasible? And how could you trust that data? We also look at the fact that just several years ago, a single family home of 3,000 square feet was denied on this property. Yet here we are six years later, and we're at the verge of possibly approving an 18,000 square foot structure on that property. How does any of this make any sense? This location, this location just does not work for this property. And I think we've been reminded by that many times tonight by the audience. I also thought it was interesting that we were told that the colors of this building are very similar to those used in Lake Ridge. Well, I'm sure many of you drive through Lake Ridge every day. And Lake Ridge is very, very different from the Davis Ford corridor. An area I move to to find peace and get away from things like my post-traumatic stress. And now I'm preparing to have to experience every day as I drive my diary to daycare. Construction, traffic, and who knows what other problems may appear as we look at the septic fields, as we look at the erosion, things that we can't take back. So let us pause on this. Let us think about the new data that's coming to light. Let us look at the fact that we're looking at outdated data. Let us think about the fact that we've got signatures of over 1,400 people, and that's just from one district. If this vote happens, if you do say yes to the special use permit, then what are all your other constituents and your respective areas going to think? Because this could happen to them, and I would hate to see that. Thank you for your time, and have a great night. All right, next speakers please. Good evening. My name is Ben Roskowski. I'm a resident of the Ocaquan District and I've lived on the Davis Ford road corridor for over 10 years now with my family. I've learned a lot about this project between the zoning board meeting a few months ago in tonight's discussion and the slideshow presentation at the beginning. I've seen it a couple times now. I'm learning new things about even my own community, surprise to learn that there's so much development on Davis 4 Dove already. When actually we realize and we understand that people who live there that the police station and the church and the fire station are way down at the bottom of Davis for road two miles away from this proposed site a totally different area. One thing I have not heard one compelling reason why this special use permit should be planned should be voted on and moved forward. Not one compelling reason. I've heard a lot of reasons why it shouldn't be. A lot of reasons why it shouldn't pass. And I'd like to add one more reason tonight. That's my family's safety. My family lives on Davis Ford Road. Like I said, we travel up and down this corridor every day. We already see major traffic accidents. Lethal fatal traffic accidents at the top and bottom of Davis Ford Road. We know that a project like this will only add to the congestion, the confusion, the chaos along this corridor. This will add traffic accidents to our community. Anyone who looks up and down this road can see how utterly incompatible, utterly incompatible, a project like this would be on Davis Ford, and it will only get worse. I see that the applicants love their church. A church is designed to grow. You saw this for yourselves in the original plans of their parcel. They want this church to grow. The church is planning to grow, and this lot is already incompatible, as I said. This board will not be able to stop the growing hazards that will snowball with this project over time. This is why we have zoning regulations in the first place. It's why this parcel was zoned properly in the first place, and why no one in this community supports this plan, and why this special request should not pass tonight. Thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening. My name is Linda Cronin and I live off Davis Ford Road and we've lived here for 25 years. I want to point out that I totally disagree with the church being built on this site. To start with, it's been a lot that has never been developed since 1983 when this whole area was actually first developed. So it's been empty. I also want to point out that a lot of people in this community have put a lot of time and effort into doing their research on the church and its proposals. We heard a lot when they first proposed that they didn't want to expand. Now we find out that not only do they want to expand, they're going to have a youth ministry and that was in the planning that they didn't mention. A lot of the fact that they said they weren't going to expand and that they didn't have more than the regular church services was actually pointed out by supervisor Bodhi. And a lot of this came because the constituents have done their research. All of this is on their website. So none of this is not unknown. They also said that they only have a kitchen where they're going to do warming. They actually have 1,000 square foot kitchen planned. And my thought is, what are they doing, feeding the 5,000? They said that I'm lost now. Sorry. I just, the septic system, everybody has already spoken about. The traffic everybody has already spoken about. And my last thought is, if you don't think the church doesn't want to expand on this site, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to share with you. Thank you. All right, before you speak, I'm going to call up the next group, and that is 36 to 40. If you are 36 to 40, please get in line so that you may speak. All right, sir, you may speak. Good evening. My name is Preston Holt. I live in the Acaquan district off of Acaquan Oaks Lane, just directly across from the proposed site for the special use permit. Thank you to the board and for everybody for being here and for the opportunity for your constituents to voice their concerns. So far you've heard unanimous concern for all the negative attributes that would go along with the special use project. You're gonna continue to hear unanimous support against proposal of the Specialties Port permit. Every resident in this area has invested deeply their most valuable investment asset. So they can live a certain quality of life in a serene setting. I think it's important to respect that. There's been very eloquent arguments addressing every area of concern. 18 foot retaining walls, the runoff, the sewage. Simply put, this church is supposed to be the same size as the police station. I mean, I just can't believe that this has even gotten this far. Please support your constituents in our most valuable investments, and please oppose this special use permit. Thank you for your time. Next speaker, please. Hello, my name is Kyle Fritcher. I live on Occoquan Forest Drive, right off of Davis Ford Road. Me and my wife just purchased this place about a year ago. And the reason we purchased it is because of all the reasons everyone's been saying. It's a beautiful property. The neighborhoods are amazing and a church would just stick out like a sore thumb. I could reiterate every problem that everyone's been saying about sewer, about location. It's just nonsense. We're just reiterating the same things. Nobody wants it. It's just it's the community. Everyone's been speaking. It's the community that doesn't want it. The people who live there don't want it. If a church is supposed to serve the community, what point is it if none of us are using it? You're just driving out the neighborhood. It's pointless. But sorry, I'll try to find something to say when I wrote down. In the permit, it says, it will add a historical marker, you know, and that supposedly will change everything and make it great and a part of the community. I don't think adding a historical marker or any of these things will change an 18,000 square foot church to make it seem like it belongs with the Bacon Race Cemetery right down the road. It doesn't belong, it's fine, the way it is. And I understand that that sounds ignorant and unreceptive to change, but we want people to join the community. We love people, but it just doesn't make sense there. And the traffic hazard is too great. And when the church grows, like everyone says, the septic's going to be a problem. A mile away, they have to connect to the city sewer. But I believe I'll just keep rambling on. So thank you for your time. Next Next speaker please. Hi, my name is Laura Miller. I live in Akakwan District off of Davis Ford Road. I've been living in Prince William County for almost seven years. And my husband and I moved here because of the rural character and being so close to the Akakwan River and living living in the forest and we absolutely love it. I'm here to ask you to oppose the special use permit that you're considering tonight. I strongly oppose it for many reasons that have been articulated so nicely already. Primarily, I'm worried about the traffic. For those of us that have to commute into DC and through Fairfax, we already are in line to down Davis Ford Road to get on Yates Ford Road to go through Clifton. And when I think about a project for a church that, you know, I'm very pro church. I want people to find a home here in Prince William County. The whole purpose of having a church is to grow your family, to grow your community, and to spread the word. And when you're starting on a spot that's too small already, in no place to grow, it breaks your heart because it's like you're going to have a lot of problems already expanding too far and you're going to be you know impacting the community. So I worry a lot about the traffic I go through Clifton all the time Yates Ford Road is a nightmare and I would hate for Davis Ford Road to go from already being backed up when you're leaving the community you're backed up in line trying to get out to like, like mirroring that kind of traffic. I have a young driver that going down, my family goes up and down Davis Ford Road probably four times every day, more times recently. It's not a safe road. I'm a bicyclist. I can't bike on that road at all. There's no shoulder. There's no, there's blind turns. I'd rather the county paid for bike lanes versus trying to squeeze an eight, over 18,000 square feet. That's a huge building. That's the size of the fire station that's on Davis Ford Road, close to where Haudley Road meets Davis Ford Road. That's just a huge building on the size of a residential lot. It's just inappropriate for this purpose and I ask you to see it in your heart, to please vote no for this special permit. And then we can gather together as a community and find this church, community a new that would be that would work that would help them grow and help them assimilate into our community. Thank you very much. Next speaker please. Hello, my name is Dave Plogueur. I live on O'Courst Lane in the Coles District. I'm just one property away from the proposed development. It's an incredibly beautiful area and I'm very interested in me and my wife are very interested in protecting it and keeping the tranquility and the beauty conserved. I won't repeat what my neighbors already stated so clearly, but I want to add my voice in strong opposition. This development is not right for the location, the threatens our natural environment, sets a dangerous precedent and goes against the very zoning protections to safeguard our community. I urge you to listen to the overwhelming concerns of the constituents of the community and hope that you please please please will vote. No, thank you. Next speaker please. My name is Mike Aiken. I live in Riverview, Estates since 2012. It's been a dream to live here for all the reasons my neighbors have spoken about. The main issue I want to talk about, I agree with everything in terms of environmental law, but the main thing for me is the traffic problems. This is a two lane road which cannot be widened. I live right by the bridge, so I know very well there's no chance of widening this road. Another thing that's caught my attention tonight for the usage of the usage of this church. If they have heard there's 200 parishioners and there's really no intent to grow the church. Well, the church should grow. That's the purpose of the church. And I hope the church grows. But that's all the more reason why this area cannot accommodate it. Another thing they call my, was the daily worships in January. And the septic expert said the 20 to 30 people were projected for those I'm wondering why the septic expert is the expert on how many people are attending so I'm kind of wonder I'm considering people's motivation in terms of what they're talking about in their presentations The witness speaking on behalf of the construction project when question on the slope said it was the gold standard for a building site. So again, I question the motivation behind those opinions. In 2023, I know a 50-page analysis came by very deep came Was presented very detailed why this shouldn't happen which was Reverse the next year and I haven't heard any reasons why why that reversal was made. The words of the first woman who spoke I hope you guys really listened to her. She couldn't get it approved for a 3000 square foot and now we're putting an 18,000 square foot here. This makes no sense to me and I urge you to vote no. Thank you for your time. All right, before the next speaker, I'm going to call up our next group. And that is 41 through 45. If you are, have numbers 41 through 45, please make your way to the back of the room so that you may speak. Just give me one minute, let's, or a couple seconds, let's see. All right, I appreciate your patience go ahead. Steve Barfield, Ockerman, Magisterio District. I'm a 23 year Air Force veteran, former municipal clerk and before coming over here I researched ways that the board can terminate public comment because I know it's going to be a long night in that vein I should say happy anniversary to the clerk to the board it's her anniversary and she's gonna spend the whole thing here so my apologies I'll keep it short but you love us right love us. Right, gone. That's not what you told me. I am not going to repeat, rehash everything that's already been said or I think it's not been said already. But in my time as a municipal clerk, you learned and as a parliamentarian that you learn certain circumstances wherever there was a time to lay something on the table, it's a time like this. When there's so many questions about, and some circles are ethical concerns about others just factual and I would just recommend the board table this until another date. Thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening board. My name is Kevin Grimes. I live at the north end of Davis Ford off Evans Ford Road I've been a Prince William County resident for almost 40 years owned my house for 14 years and I frequent Davis Ford area aquan area all the time I'm not opposed at all to the church I'm opposed to 18,000 square foot business being built and the president will set for bringing new business in that area. I bought my area because it's residential and I like it that way and I wanted to stay that way. That's all, thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening, Chairwoman. And Supervisors, my name's Emron Carter. I'm in the Ock district. I actually live in the running creek community, which is directly adjacent to where this development is going to go, which is sandwiched in between two sub divisions, running creek and malvern chase. And just so you know where I'm situated on the contour map that the planning staff was shown earlier, I am one of four homes that is directly to the south of this development. The first speaker that spoke here tonight talked about how she was denied and where she ultimately ended up building had to put an a 13-inch pipe for that dry creek. Well that dry creek actually runs along the side of my property and drains into a retention pond on the rear of my property. Among all the other concerns that I have, the primary concern is with the sheet flow, with the impervious surface, that massive facility that they're shoe-horning onto a small site like that, with all that impervious surface. I was the first home that the builder put in in my community once they took it over from the previous builder that went belly up. I've watched as other homes were built around me by the developer. I am the lowest lying of those four lots that is directly behind this property, the proposed property. And just from the development that's happened within my subdivision in the 13 years since I built over there back in 2011. I have constant issues with erosion and sheet flow. My yard getting washed out. It's a soggy mess. The builders are actually working to get out of the community, get their bond release. So I'm working with them and their partners to try to fix some of the issues there, the redone swales and everything else. And then you have this massive proposed development. It's going to be directly to the north of me. My well is located at the northeast end of my property. It actually shares it's on the property line between myself and Val who spoke here first tonight. So I'm concerned about the erosion, all the work that they're going to be doing, all that cut and fill that they're going to be doing. Someone said 85% at least of that land was going to be cleared. If that's something we're going for a bit to fail, I am directly south of that site. It just doesn't work. It's not, it's the location. It has nothing to do with the church or anything else. And so that is the primary reason that I'm up here speaking about this. I am very concerned about that amongst all the other concerns that people have voiced. Thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening to the board. Thank you very much for this time. My name is Kinyata Worley. I also live in the running creak community, which is the neighborhood directly next to the parcel of land. My concern tonight, not to reiterate everything that's been stated, although very valid, is the noise. There's a church on highway one and carton drive that's been in construction for roughly eight years. I make my living working from home. I'm on calls usually seven to eight hours a day. And my concern is about the construction noise that ensues if you guys approve this project. So as a voter, as a resident of this community, I implore you to oppose this special use permit. I ask that you think about the residents that actually live and work in this community, the safety concerns that's been raised, the environmental concerns that's been raised. And I ask you to vote in opposition and do the right thing. This parcel of land does not support an 18,000 foot structure. My home sits directly behind where the structure is being proposed to be built. Val, the very first speaker is my neighbor. So it directly impacts us, it impacts our home values. I cannot imagine living and trying to work through years of construction. So again, I ask that you oppose this permit. Thank you for the time. All right, before I get to the next speaker, I want to call up the next group. And that is 46 through 50. If you are 46 through 50, please make your way to the microphone in the board chambers at the back of the room. That is 46 through 50. All right. You may go ahead. Thank you. Hello. My name is Julie Morris. I'm an aqua in the aqua corn district. And I live in aqua corn oaks directly across the street from the proposed site. I vehemently oppose the issuance of this permit. The information I'm presenting that is in the packets that you are receiving is directly from the current church website effective 2025. It is not conjecture nor what could happen. It is actual current state. Based on what is actually happening now at the existing location, it is reasonable and expected that moving to a new larger state of the art facility will only increase the activities and number of people attending these activities. As such as as you have already heard, the septic is a huge concern and has impact on the environment. The project defies orber protections and threatens residents water supply. The venue will cause hazmat conditions. According to the person designing the septic, it can only handle one service of 208 people per day. This alone should be reason to deny this permit. The church exceeds this on a routine basis as the examples I have provided you demonstrate. Prayer service Monday through Friday 7 pm. Currently 9 in 11 o'clock services on Sunday, 21 days nightly at 7 p.m. Half-night prayers, Fridays from 9 p.m. to 12 a.m. Every Saturday for a month at 9 a.m. Every night, Monday through Friday from 7 to 9 p.m. Sunday 10 to 1 p.m. for 30 days. That will blow out the septic system alone. The vote you are making today is not just for the proposed number of 208 that they have submitted this application for. It will have lasting negative impact because once this is permitted, the growth and expansion, which is what they clearly intend, will not be stopped. A vote of yes will destroy this community and the lives of your current constituents that put you in place to protect their best interests. Despite what was said, they want to perish of over 500 people. They want to grow. They host events called Operation Multiply. That is also in your packet. The land will not support the current congregation in a safe manner, more or less one with substantial growth. Their website states that the new facility will be worth millions. However, they will bring no revenue to this county. It is very thought provoking how a church with a parish of 120 people, according to their own reporting, can fund a multimillion dollar project. That alone indicates that this project is funded by and intended to be much larger than what is being presented for approval. The original site plan clearly shows the intent of what will actually be, changing a few key words after hearing off-position arguments is nothing but smoke and mirrors. It does not preclude the smart mind from understanding that modifications towards is strictly a mess to appease the opposition minds and appear to show concessions are being made in order to obtain approval. This is word trickery and disguise in actual intent and would be foolish to think otherwise. An 18,000 square foot building will hold 3,000 ADA compliant theater seats. You need that for 120 people. We kindly ask that you let common sense as well as rule of law prevail here. The land was designed and designated for a single family home. And then it was determined that's not suitable. But yet somehow we're going to let six times that size prevail or be built. Both the will of the people vote with integrity and on behalf of your constituents. Please vote no to this permit. Thank you for your right. Madam Chair, esteemed members of the board. My name is Brian Payne, 22 years United States Air Force Retired. I live in the Aquaman District. I'm against this variance. I live on Davis Ford Road and one of the three properties directly adjacent to the pro's build site. What it was brought up before, what's that little property on the right hand side, right beside the building site, that's my house. Now you know, when we bought that house, there was a vacant lot on both sides of us. When the first of these lots was sold, the community did not raise dissent on the house being built because that was supposed to go to go on the lot. We welcomed our neighbors. Nobody's protesting the other houses currently being built off Davis Ford Road, or the sale of vacant properties for other houses to be built. That is what the properties are zoned for and that's the nature of the neighborhood. Every property along the Davis Ford corridor is zoned to allow these houses to be built. What my neighbors, my community, myself are objecting to is the 18 square foot structure, 18,000 square foot structure, and the 100 parking spaces that go with it being forced on a four acre site. We are objecting to a permanent large sign on the side of the road where somebody's mailbox for a house should be. We are objecting to the adding of mediums and turning lanes to a roll road to accommodate the traffic the proposed facility will bring. With over 700 acres of the Davis Ford Road corridor still currently undeveloped, we objective the engross of a non-housing facility that would provide precedence for further development not within the current zoning. The lot was for one house and one family for a reason. That has not changed. This structure in its parking does not fit the character of the neighborhood and does not belong in the middle of a neighborhood. Please do not force this upon our neighborhood. Thank you for your time. Next speaker please. Hi, my name is Kare Paine, and thank you for giving me the time to speak. I'm in the Aquagon District, and I am in the property that is directly adjacent right next to the property. I am opposed to this church being built because as a young driver, I barely know how to drive as it is, but adding more to block my view to get out of my driveway makes it really hard to get to school and get to work. I think that adding a big place where is built for a home and not a church or a residential area is very bad for the community. I think that the environmental issues that everyone has brought up is a very big issue especially as the Hill and my backyard also leads back into erosion. I'm very against this the meeting. I will go back to the meeting. I will go back to the meeting. I will go back to the meeting. I will go back to the meeting. I will go back to the meeting. I will go back to the meeting. I will go back to the meeting. I will go back to the meeting. I will go back to the Road and I have for the last 8 years. Honestly, we would all rather be home tonight in our peaceful neighborhood, but something has happened. Someone applied for a permit to build something that should not be built in the first place there. You have heard all the reasons why already. This whole thing does not work. In this creates. It is not a secret that our neighborhood is highly organized, you have already witnessed and will continue to pursue every legal venue to stop this process. I would be much easier for everyone tonight to gracefully decline and move on. Thank you everyone. Next speaker. My name is Greg Ererson. I live in the Octoquon district. I want to bring up three issues that I don't think have been adequately addressed. First of all, Davis Ford is a Virginia by way. Can you speak a little bit more? I can move there. Yeah, you can do that too. All right. Thank you. Building the new turn lanes onto Davis Ford, it's going to be expensive to build, but it's also going to be expensive to maintain. The SUP does not commit the church to maintain those turn lanes. As a result, those are going to be costs that are going to be transferred to Prince William County. That's unfair and inappropriate. Next the proposed access to the property is a twisty turning type of path and putting ambulances, putting fire trucks and that will obviously be needed to service the congregation onto that and roaring through a parking lot is going to be dangerous. And we need to take a look at that and that whole piece needs to be revised and rethought. Finally, I want you to use your imagination for a bit. Suppose that you approve this SUP. Think about then the construction vehicles that are going to be on Davis Ford. Probably about a year. The tractor trailers, the tractors, the haulers, the dump trucks, that are going to block the Davis Ford access moving through. So what you're going to do is you're going to have people who traditionally transit that particular roadway, not being able to get to work or get to grocery stores or get to recreations. So we need to make sure that in fact the church then pays for the police support for the entire construction period of the church. And that needs to be for the entire period to make sure that we have a safe passageway in and our roadway. Thank you. All right, before I allow the next speaker, I wanted to go get up the next group and that is 51 through 55. So if you are in groups 51 through 55, please come into board chambers and get in line at the back, front of the mic. Is that it? 51 through 55. All right. If we only have a couple people, we all more come and more company. All right. Ma'am, you may go ahead and speak. Yes, I'd like to get you here, are you okay? Yes, we can. Thank you. I'd like to speak for the HOA across the street. It's the Aquanox HOA section one and three. And so I'd like a couple extra minutes if I could. So then you will get five minutes. Thank you. I'm speaking to you as a contractor, a general contractor. I've done a lot of custom homes and commercial work. Uh, in fact, I built Mike Vanderpull's house. So that's an interesting project isn't it? So I want to speak for the point there's three bedroom house that would be was supposed to be put on that that lot. Would disturb about 5,000 square feet. And they are disrupting 122,000 square feet. So I thought that might be an interesting comparison to see how much disturbing is happening right there. So I'm worried about the watershed, which has not had a chance to see this situation yet. I've spoken to them recently, and there's many, many things that they're going to have to look at. That's going to make this a very costly, imposing project for the church. I made some notes here, if you don't mind. I've worked with the county for probably 25 years on this ORPA situation, and they've been very protective of the water system and they're still protecting it and I'm hoping they will continue to protect it no matter what they take away with the zoning they still have to protect that water. Now another general contractor that you might know in the area and myself have recently talked about the cost of this project. And separately we both decided it's about 8 to 9 million dollars. And the shock to me is that it's only going to cover and give service to 208 people. And I don't understand how they can afford to put such a huge investment in such a small situation. So, and also one more thing, they're impacting 2400 families and that's an N-plus, maybe two or three per household. That's an awful lot of people to be painfully disrupted forever. So thank you for your time. All right. You just want to quickly say the people who should be standing in the back are the ones who are slated to speak in the groups 51 through 55 and numbers before that. So if you are, make sure you run that group because I don't want to have people standing if they're not in queue to speak. All right. Thank you. Here we go. Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the board. My name is Heather Reyes, and I'm a resident in the Occoquan district. I'm also a homeowner in the Hampton Grove development. I own one acre, and I'm also a veteran. And the whole purpose of me being here is because when I bought my property, I did take a lot of time within Prince William County to take a look at what I wanted to buy. I value my privacy, I value my like my peace, my security. I spent a lot of time and money in Prince William County in order to attain this. My neighbors also own at least one, two, or four acres of land, and each of those have a single family home on it. So anybody that has purchased a long Davis Ford corridor has sought an environment away from traffic congestion. As time goes on, building development has increased and this plot is not designed for commercial development. These are the challenges regarding the rains, the draining that are already existing. Besides that, there's little chance of the parishioners that are living and attending the church are living actually in the area of the church. I don't know if anybody has ever done a survey to see who's actually in this area that's actually going to live here, but that would have been helpful. Right now, if there's a building as being built, we were going to have to also maintain the security of it. Have they even thought about the security and taking care of the property itself? The residents are going to be having to do the watching. Another thing too is churches just don't build themselves to not grow. I do want to thank supervisor Bodhi. He did stand up to this before in November 2024. He said he's voting a no on the project and pledged to communicate very strongly for a very compelling reasons. The reasons partly and probably most of it is application is flawed. Number one, the application didn't disclose accurate data regarding the actual current usage patterns and growth plans. They didn't have a great specific system in place and there's still questions about it. Number two, the project is really too large for a four acre parcel land. 80% of that parcel is going to be buildings and parking and that's going to be in violation of Ocaquan reservoir protection area, O-R-P-A, and also the environmental resource area. Yes, E-R-A protections. So the zoning is really questionable here. Number three, the project is really inappropriate for the low density residential community and it does not align to the semi-rural neighborhood regarding it. I thank you for your time, thank you for your service and please consider no. Thank you. Next speaker please. Hello, my name is Patrice Householder. I live 56-06 Davis Ford Road. I am about 8th of a mile from the site. In talking with county officials, we just keep hearing the repeated refrain. The applicant has done everything we asked. They have, because the county has not asked them to do the one thing that would make this project appropriate, turn it into a single family home. And by the way, it would have to be a single family home smaller than 3,000 square feet, apparently, since Valstead and couldn't build one of those there. The community has just made it perfectly clear from the first interaction with the applicant. Then until this project is the three bedroom home that this land perks for, it's not appropriate for the parcel of land, for the neighborhood, or for the road. Supervisor Rody has joined with us to inform the applicant from the start that it's going to it's likely to be denied because of the harm it poses to the residents of the Davis Ford, Bacon Race and Yates Ford corridors because it's too large and because it's too intense for the lot. It's clear from Supervisor Boaties immediate reaction to discourage the client from continuing with the application. The Prince William County also officially recognized the misfit from the beginning. Furthermore, Prince William County set the standard for review of the transformation temple project when it determined in 2017 that a 3,000 square foot house was too large and too environmentally destructive for this parcel. But now the extreme harm from this project should not devolve to the residents of this community because the applicant kept going regardless of consistent community opposition. Pushback from community organizations and clear statements from supervisor Bodhi that the project was inappropriate. It's obviously impossible to know whether this applicant simply pushed ahead with over the objections and warnings or whether there were entities within the county government that kind of strung them along a little bit with peace, meal to-do lists, leading them to believe that insignificant alterations would somehow make this project appropriate. In either case, the owners and residents of the 2,400 impacted properties along Davis Ford Road and Bacon Race and Yates Ford. Those are not the people who should have to pay the terrible price for whatever happened. And however, however, how this went along. By determining that a 3,000 square foot home was inappropriate for the site, the county basically eliminated any possible grounds for turning around now and approving a project six times that size and leaving the community to suffer the harms, the resultant harms from that. Casting a yes vote for this project effectively informs residents of this community that you're willing to turn your backs on thousands of your constituents. The flagrant nature of that offense is brought into a specially sharp relief by what happened, the disparity between the county's treatment of Al Stanton and its treatment of Transformation Temple. That's unacceptable. We will not be the sacrifice for either the county's lack of concern for its residents or for the applicants refusal to take no front answer from the community and from supervisor Bodhi. And we won't accept the unconscionable inflection of harm on us for blame that falls either with the applicant or with aspects of the county process. Fortunately, the Virginia State Supreme Court paved the way recently for us to challenge a gregiously harmful land use approvals, and this would certainly qualify. Next speaker, please. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Daniel Jarl. I live on the Akul and Oaks Lane road. I lived for about 10 years, and I oppose this permit. I'm not going to reiterate what everybody else has said so far. But I will bring up what the first speaker brought up. She was denied a 3,000 foot square foot building. But now we're looking at it, 8,000 foot square building. It doesn't make sense. Thank you. Next speaker. Hi, my name is Dr. Patty Bright. I'm a resident of the Aquine District. I work in environmental health and I work very closely with a number of members of the Fairfax County Water Authority and so I've had some discussions with them and it's it's find very interesting that we haven't heard from them here right? Have the board heard from them? Do we know what they're thinking? I can tell you what they're thinking. I asked why they haven't spoken up. They told me that their policies are not allowed to comment on individual projects. But I have spoken to each of the staff members individually, and they are strongly, strongly opposed. They are very concerned about the impacts on the watershed. The Akakwan reservoir serves 1.2 million people with drinking water. The vast majority of those are in Prince William County. Fairfax County Water Authority staff, they don't have a dog in this fight, right? They're not worried about traffic, they're not worried about public safety, they're worried about the watershed and I think we need to find out why. That's number one. Number two, I will tell you that after one of the earlier meetings, I was out in the parking lot. came out, we started talking and I said to him, you know, I'm really confused. Why did you buy this property if you didn't think you could use it for if it wasn't so inappropriately? I said, you know, we invest in real estate. I would never buy a property that I didn't know or feel pretty certain I could use for that purpose that I intended. And he said to me, well, he's kind of straighter, so he said, well, you know, we're a small community church, which is what his lawyer said earlier today. And, you know, we just figured we well, you know, we're a small community church, which is what his lawyer said earlier today. And we could sign a few papers and we could get that special use permit. Well, you know what, they're not a small community church. I first thought, wow, these folks are really naive. They have developed 1150 churches in Europe, Canada, and the United States and Africa. They aren't naive. They knew they had the lawyers and they knew they had the money to push this through. Several days after I had that conversation with him, he gave a sermon. One of our neighbors found that sermon. It was online. And a number of us got an opportunity to look at it. I really wish I had downloaded it so I could have showed you a clip from that tonight. tonight, but unfortunately, once they found out that we found out about it, they took it down. During that sermon, as someone mentioned earlier, he called us sinners and fools. Yes, fools. If we thought we were going to stop this project, fools, if we believe in environmental protection, fools, if we believe that appropriate zoning should be adhered to. Fools, if we believe in good governance and if we believe that our elected officials are going to support us, I hope that you will vote no and prove him wrong. Thank you. All right, before we go on to you, sir, let me call up our next group and that is 56 to 60. If you have numbers, 90, I'm sorry, what? 90, I'm sorry. Let me go ahead and call people. I'm sorry. If you are 56 through 60, please come to the back and the board chambers. All right, sir. And if you've already spoken, I'd appreciate if you have a seat. If you have spoken or if you are not one of the, I'd appreciate if you have a seat That's okay You can get there seat right there. All right you may go sir Thank you board members my name's Richard Bright. I'm in the aquawn district speak up I'm sorry. Your wife did an excellent job. She did she is she is tell me I'm just challenging you know okay yes she is telling me that I have to speak tonight so I'm here to voice my opinion I have I'm trying to liven it up a little bit here everybody's got valid points very and I don't want to reiterate them what I'd like to say as a investor and properties in Prince William County, I've done residential and commercial real estate. And the real tears that we deal with, they say there are three things that you need to look for in these properties. And that's three things, whether it's reals, whether it's commercial or whether it's residential. And that is location. I think we know location and location. So location for residential is part of it is being among similar properties and close to all the amenities that are like schools and shopping and such. So this corridor is perfect for residential. Now when you think about commercial, I can't think of a reason why a commercial property would be there for location location or location. It is not close to traffic that they need, although we're talking about traffic in a residential, but it's not the kind of traffic that you want for commercial property. So why are they motivated to move there? I'm thinking it's the price of the property. So I think that's my two cents worth that's keeping up me up late tonight and Thank you for your time and I vehemently oppose this proposal Thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening Honorable Board of County Supervisors. My name is Nana and I've lived and voted in the Colesma justarial district for the past 18 years. The positive impact that churches had on me goes beyond spiritual to emotional, to mental and professional. I joined the church as an ordinary member and as a result of the impact that churches had on me have grown spiritually to be ordained as a minister of the gospel and currently a senior associate minister. The professional impact that churches had on me and has enabled me to transition from being an employee with GDIT to own in my own accounting firm in Prince William County and to be an employer in Prince William County. As a member of this project's committee, I've been present in meetings with our prospective neighbors. We've listened, gone far above and beyond, and have incorporated their feedback we've received into our plans. In the course of this evening's public comments, you've heard opposing comments based on feelings and inaccurate information from the opposition, such as we feel the intensity of use is too much for the lot size. We feel the building design is incompatible with the community. We feel the land is susceptible to erosion. We feel traffic will be adversely affected. Honourable Board of County Supervisors, we have confidence in you that you make your decisions based on facts. Not the feelings and inaccurate information the opposition has presented tonight. Honourable Board of County Supervisors, the facts are before you, the facts are on our side. No matter the opposing comments you hear, please remember, the county and state engineers have no reservations about our project. V.Approves our plan, which negates traffic concerns. V.D.H.Approves our plan, which also nullifies the septic concerns. Please believe the experts. Believe the facts. You are in a very important seat to make a crucial decision tonight. Respectfully, you have heard from those with no qualification and expertise in certain fields of engineering, twisting the facts to suit the narrative. Those facts, those with facts must be listened to are the accounting engineers and engineers who have worked on this project. We've interviewed several engineers and we chose the best. Ron School says over 40 years of experience, torn verney over 40 years, we're in savage over 15 years, and our stormwater management engineer over 64 years. These are the aspects with the facts and the ones to listen to. Board of County supervisors when transmission temple is built on Davis Fort Road, which I'm prayerfully and joyfully looking forward to. It'll be a place where Christ will be preached. Souls will be saved and lives will be made better. Consider the future. Consider the lives that will be empowered through the name of Jesus. Consider the difference the church can make in our county. I humbly ask you to be on the side of those who help make history for the Lord Jesus Christ in our county and not on the side of those who help stop history from being made. Please vote yes to approve. Thank you and God bless you. Next speaker please. Good evening, respected Board of Supervisors. I'm Priscilla from Ocoquon as Cybersecurity Specialist. Who stands before you today not just as a leasinger at transformation temple, but as a live-in testament to the transformative power of this church community. When I first worked with the doors of our church, I was struggling with personal challenges that seemed insurmountable. But in this community, I found more than just a place of worship. I found a family, the love, support, and guidance I've received and my church have been nothing short of life-changing. Transformation temple isn't just a building project for us. It is a dream to create a century where more people can experience the same life-uttering support I've been blessed with. I want to talk to you about some of the benevolent activities our church precipitated in doing the COVID-19 pandemic. I saw how our church church supported community members who were out of work to the tune of $50,000. Our church donates to her can really funds and we make annual donations to server shelters through our Leonard Hen initiative. These are the types of good our church does. I have a personal experience when my mom's home caught fire, the church sponsored a gold fund me to raise funds to make it possible for me to travel thousands of miles away to support her and be with her. This shows that this is this church that is very mindful of its fellow citizens. Our pastor and the leadership, I can assure you, are so consensuous. They will not have continued with this project. If they felt it was not going to work. The fact that they have led us this far shows that they believe in it and we also believe in it. I humbly ask for your support. I implore you to support this project because every week, I witness miracles, I see lives being transformed, families being restored, and a community growing stronger. With your approval, we can expand our capacity to serve, to heal, and to uplift even more of our neighbors in need. Imagine the stories of transformation that will hold in this new place. Stories like mine and countless others yet to be written. Your support wouldn't just be a proven impairment. It will be helping build a place of transformation and open doors of hopes for so many. From the bottom of my heart, I ask you to please recommend approval for transformation temple. Thank you for your time and for considering that's profound impact this decision could have on our community's future. Thank you and God bless you. Next speaker please. Good evening. My name is Rita and I live here in Akukon. I'm a registered nurse. My family of five also live and vote here. My dad who served in the United States Army for over 25 years and fought in Iraq war and in Afghanistan for our beloved country also live here in Akogon. One of the values he installed in me is in life when you see a group of people doing a good thing you support them. You don't discourage them. Rather you encourage them, especially when what they are doing is a godly thing, not illegal or immoral. Look at us, young professionals, law-abiding citizens, purposeful and God-fearing people who are working out our salvation with godly fear and reverence. So we can make heaven. Don't discourage us. Please encourage us. Hebrews 1024 says, let us encourage those doing good. Therefore, we have met county requirements and board both the county staff and the planning commissioners have recommended approval This is a good thing. It's a god thing Please don't be hostile towards a god thing Don't reject a godly the support it and please vote go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. I will not let you go. and be kind. To you to do good such as this evening says the opportunity to show compassion and be kind and yes to do good. God bless you Next speaker please Hello, good evening. I'm Susanna. I live in Manassas in the Cosmages Can you adjust the mic? You're just a little hard to hear. Thank you. Okay. I am a cyber security engineer by profession. I want to begin by saying to everyone here that Jesus loves you. He was persecuted, crucified, and died on the cross to demonstrate his love for each and every one of us. I love the Lord, my heart breaks, for how people who claim to be Christians will treat fellow Christians in Christchurch in such a way as a shame, but we know that we God all things are possible. I love my church, my children were Christian in this church. We followed the goodness of the Lord through this church. I have a college student right now as my daughter. I don't look at my genes. But my daughter went through this church and now it's in Virginia Tech. And this church has raised her as who she is right now. That she can stand tall in Virginia Tech and everybody will know that indeed she's the Christian and she walks in that exemplary figure. We've been hearing a lot about the environmental resource and I would I would like to draw that attention of the board to the comment made by the retired Aberyst, Julie Flengan. When she was questioned by the commissioner, Moses Ned, Julie told the planning committee on October 9, 2024 that the Department of Public Works has reviewed the church application and is satisfied with it. She continued and also mentioned that the environmental resource on the site, although are the areas that have been combined of steep slopes with highly erudable soils or carrying on the same time, it was not an issue for them because in that comprehensive plan, where is the talk? Where is the talk that says that taking care of steep slopes with highly rotable soils, is it talked about in conjunction with the perennial streams or intermittent streams? Please, here were the repeatable abalone said, there is no perennial streams or intermittent streams on the site and since the comprehensive plan has no policy that says you must protect the environmental resource when it is not associated with the perennial streams or intermittent streams we did not see it as a big deal. Furthermore it is really disgusting to hear that people who use cunning statement have the parcel of the land is an environmental resource area. The parcel is 4.3 acres and the environmental resource area accounts for just a little over an acre. This is not half the parcel. To end with. I will say this. I teach in the children's ministry and we raise so many children and even now we have more children to raise. Thank you very much. Before the next speaker I'm going to call up the next group. If you are 61 through 65, again that is 61 through 65. Please come into board chambers and line up at the back near the microphone. I just want you people a little chance to get settled. 61 through 65. Alright sir, you may go. Good evening honorable board of supervisors. My name is Reverend Clarence D. Roberts. I am a long time resident 25 years of Prince William County. My family lives here. My children were rare here, and I have a deep commitment to this community. I do appreciate and respect the concerns raised and believe in an open dialogue. My goal tonight is to clarify, reassure and demonstrate how this church would be an asset to this county bringing the lasting benefits to the residents. We've heard all manner of negativity, but let's look at the benefits of what a church will present to this community. The church is always and she'll always be a pillar of strength, not a source of division. A church is more than a building. There's a beacon of hope, service and transformation. A strengthens families, not just moral values, provides a safe and a blifting space for all. All. Permit me to quote scripture proverbs in 11 and verse 11 says by the blessings of the upright a city is resulted in power and temple with mental youth for the community engagement and provided foundation for stronger families it will not impose beliefs but will welcome and support people from all backgrounds. Additionally, this church is committed to addressing critical social needs through food assistance, youth mentorship, as was explained, leadership training, mental health and addiction recovery support, senior and veteran support. The church is not just about worship, it's about building lives, restoring hope and uplifting the community. One of the earlier speakers said, there have been all kinds of misinformation. Let's trust the experts what they have said and not what people feel or think. It is very important that we rely on facts and we pray that you rely on facts tonight to make the best judgment. I final in my final closing, a vision for hope, love and lasting impact. The empowerment temple is committed to being a long-term partner in Prince William County. The work collaborative will look at organizations and leaders to promote economic and social progress. They will listen, they will adapt and be good neighbors to ensure the harmony in this community. We ask for your support not just to build a church but to build a stronger, more unified community. As I close in John chapter 13 for 34 to 35, Bible says, a new command I give you that you love one another. Like a garden when we plant seeds of faith, love and service, we will reap a harvest of peace, prosperity and unity. Let's build something that will bless generations to come. Thank you and God bless you. Next speaker please. Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the board for the opportunity to speak. My name is Caitlin Starks and I'm a resident in the Aquaquan Forest neighborhood in the Aquaquan District. I oppose this proposal for the special use permit and I'll be brief because I agree with the numerous other safety, traffic and environmental concerns that have already been raised. I moved here two years ago and I quickly learned that this is a community that cares deeply about the well-being of its neighbors and its environment. I'm here tonight because my neighbors have all passionately expressed their opposition to this project with good reason and urged other neighbors to come in support and be here tonight and emphasize the importance of speaking out here today. After reading the analysis of the proposal myself, I share all of the previous speakers concerns about the proposal's many inconsistencies with the comprehensive land use plan for this community and the project's incompatibility with a specific land in question. And as every other resident of the area immediately surrounding the land has asked you tonight, please reject this proposal. Thank you for your consideration. Next speaker please. Hi, good evening. My name's Lauren Locke-Stamford. I am also a member, a resident of the Aqquan Forest Association. And I'm a member of the Aqquan District. I am in a position to this for all the reasons that everybody else has brought up tonight. We've had a number of what, 58 plus speakers from the community that came up and spoke before I heard one person say they lived in the Aquan District and actually supported this project. To me, that's a little bit surprising that we didn't hear anybody else that lives on Davis Ford, that lives bordering to this, that is supporting this project. More than 1400 people signed a petition in opposition that live and are going to be impacted by this, that's significantly more than the number of members of this congregation. Please take the opinions and the feelings and the desires of your constituents into consideration tonight when you make your vote. Thank you. Next speaker. Good evening, Board of County Spavises. My name is Quasio de Marcon. I am a principal cyber security engineer. My family of five and I live and vote. Please state your master's district or you generally live. My family of five and I live and vote in Gainesville. And I appreciate the opportunity to speak before you tonight. I stand here in strong support of the special use permit for transformation temple international. Over the years, this church has been a pillar in our family, profoundly impacting just not only my life by my entire family. There has been a claim that this project constitutes an oversized development. However, according to the county's own course, this is not the case. Let's look at the facts. Number one, the minimum loss size required by the county for this type of development is 2 acres. Our loss size is 4.3 acres, more than twice the required minimum. Number two, the load coverage. The maximum allowable load coverage for a project like this is 85% of the total load size. However, our project will cover only 26.5 of the load. For a blue, the maximum permitted coverage. In fact, our load coverage is less than 68% of what the county requires. Number three, the actual land use. Out of the 4.3 acres we are utilizing only 1.1 to 8 acres, which is significantly less than what is permitted. In conclusion, I will say that the facts fix for themselves.. This project is well within the county guidelines and does not constitute an oversized development. I sincerely appreciate your time and consideration. And I urge you to support this vision by approving the special use permit for transformation temple international. Thank you very much for your time and may the Lord bless you. I before the next speaker, I'm going to call up the next group. So 66 to 70. If you are number 66 to 70, please make your way to the back of the room inside the board chambers. I would like to request five minutes as the representative of savedavisforward.org. That is hold on one second I want to give more people but that is not an HOA or 501C3. I respect it But is there anyone else from 60, 60, 70? All right. You may go. My name is Ben Householder. I live at 5606 Davis Ford Road in the Achaquan District. When the Virginia Department of Health approved transformation temples proposed septic system, the applicant never provided its current facility usage data at the Springfield location, which is that of a commercial facility, more than 1,000 gallons per day, and therefore requires separate permitting. When this publicly available information was reported to VDH by residents of this community, VDH explained that quote, we can only issue a permit based on information provided by the owner and system designer at the time of permit issuance. As another official put it quote, VDH's hands are tied at the moment. It is plainly dishonest to use this VDH approval as evidence that the septic plans are adequate. That approval was based on the applicant's intentional exclusion of vital facts that would have changed the outcome of that approval. And VDH officials approved the plan only because they are limited to the information provided by the applicant. In addition to that, I'd like to address a lot of the comments that have been made by supporters of the church. We appreciate how much they love their church. Most of us go to churches as well that we love equally and we appreciate that desire to have a new church home. We actually even want them in our community as many of the previous speakers have said no one here doesn't want this church in our community in our county. Some of the people speaking against this church might have even gone to the church if it was located in a location that doesn't actively damage them and their property. In fact, you know, like many of the speakers have said already, we have actively introduced to them options for other places they could have moved in. We would have loved to have them be part of our community five years ago, when they could have immediately moved in to several much less expensive locations that other churches had vacated. There are vacant church buildings large enough for their organization, where they could have moved in and become a part of our community and probably a beloved part of our community five years ago without any of this fighting being done. None of us would have opposed that. The problem is that this parcel is not suitable for this land. And given the refusal of this county government to allow Val, one of our neighbors, to build her home on the same piece of property, it is grossly hypocritical to allow this size of a facility on the exact same parcel of land that you decided was too small for a single family home. We're left with no other conclusion here than to assume that organizations with enough money can walk into this county and get exceptions to rules that are strictly enforced on the residents and voters of this county. We urge you to enforce your rules evenly and fairly. Enforce them the same on residents as you do on outside groups and churches who want to move in. Enforce them the same on people who bring money into this county and people who don't have money with which to influence this process. Thank you very much. Next speaker please. Good evening, my name is Chair and the Prince William County Board of Supervisors. I am Nate Wilborn. I live in the running creek community off of David Ford Road. I'm a God-fearing man. This rejection, these rejections aren't about the church. And it's not about this congregation. I'm the H.O.E. President of Running Creek. And many of the residents who spoke here earlier tonight are from Running Creek. The energetic speaker that was here earlier that had to be kicked out was from Running Creek. So as you see, the residents in our small 25 home community are troubled by, our troubled by what's going on by the project and potential impacts of the lifelong investments which are their homes. They feel critical systems will be impacted and affected with the temple's current capacity and its capacity to grow over time. The critical word is growth and mostly all churches grow. Critical systems such as septic, sewage, water, and drainage. And the question is, will Prince William County have the capacity to monitor these systems to undergrowth of the church? I would hope that Prince William County would look closely and monitor the growth or potential of these critical systems that would change our life our way of life. As well as the potential growth of traffic congestion and safety concerns on David Ford Road. I sincerely request that you vote no on this special use project and I thank you very much for your time. All right. Before the next speaker, I would like to call up 71 through 75. If you're number 71 through 75, please make your way to board chambers and stand at the back of the room in the microphone and again to everyone's state your name. I just drew a district or where you generally reside. We need that for the public record. All right, ma'am, you may speak. Thank you. My name is Judy Sweet and I live almost directly across where the ingress, the ingress will be for the church. I I live in Agriquanox. I also am the president of Davis Ford Citizens for Davis Ford Quality Life and would request that the board permit me five minutes for speaking. That is for HOA, so I'm sorry. Oh, it's Agriquanox HOA, but I'm not speaking on behalf of the HOA, but for I'm president of Citizens for Davis Ford Quality. So it's three minutes, I'm sorry. There are some petitions that were brought here tonight that we have to provide you with. And on the front of each of the binders, you'll see a map that outlines the 18 communities that are being impacted by and also supported by the signatures that are in this book of petitions. This is the petition list that was, well, it was 1,450, but we have gotten even more since then that are not within the completed and with that book. But certainly can provide those to the board if need be. So along with these petitions, of course, we are asking that you deny the CSUP. These particular petitions, these were, these are all verified Prince William County residents and they were brought together because the people wanted to show their commitment to and their communication of our vigorous and united opposition to the SEP provided and proposed generally. These petitions were collected before midnight on Saturday March first. So we've had another three days to add more to that list as I said earlier. Additional petitions will continue to come in. We've actually gotten some as we came into the building this evening. And so there are a lot of people in the community that have continued to join the opposition to the construction of the 18,416 square foot building on the foreacre lot of this entirely low-dud city residential corridor. These petitions represent, you know, the fact that we clearly and emphatically express our unified opposition to this project as we have very, very much from the beginning. So we are asking that you all as our representatives and those who can be the ones that will, you know, properly handle this project on behalf of us and the fact that we cannot sustain this project in this particular area of the county. As a mother of a police officer here and also the mother of a fire department, a fire and rescue, this is really a concerning project for me personally because of the fact that you know within the paperwork we see that the sheriff's department or the police department law enforcement will be called in to ask for monitoring traffic. This project is right where this 45 degree curve is. Thank you ma'. Next speaker please. I'm sorry next speaker. Hello, everyone. My name is Harriet Dixon and a member of transformational temple. Before I begin, I would like to say you thank you to the Board of Contents Provisors for taking time to be here and being thorough with this process. That's what I see as my church leadership and everyone here person. Transformational temple as I prefer to call my family has been the cornerstone for many many military other military families in our congregation. I'm a military spouse with three young children and my husband is constantly away due to the nature of his assignment. He gets to come home twice a year, two weeks maximum. 10 years ago, I just relocated from North Dakota to Prince William County, because my husband was deployed to Afghanistan. I had visited many churches by one of the church family. I was invited to church by another member, and that is how I met my long-lost college friend, now turned sister in our current church building. At the time, I was heavily pregnant with my first child. A high risk pregnancy, no job. My husband was stationed in Afghanistan, couldn't come home. This friend and the family whom I reconnected with through the church has been my backbone in the constant absence of my husband. For God and country, my husband and I always say, my husband was permitted to be present for the bath. He arrived on Monday. Our son was born on a Thursday. By Sunday, he had to leave. I was left with a new born that did not come with a manual. My support system again was within our church walls, my best friend. From giving me the car for hospital appointments and being present during and after my child was born. Her husband also a church member has a mentoring and coaching program through which they freely offered me the opportunity to be part of. Out of it, I now have a career in cyber security. The same can be said for many of our church members who also now have lucrative careers. All these great things happen within the walls of our church. My young children rely heavily of the family we have created within the walls of our church. I call Transformational Temple my family because within its walls, individuals with stories like mine exist. I like to also add that research by the University of Nebraska in 2006 and by research gates in 2024 concluded that the presence of a church in the neighborhood increases property values. Anyone who tells you otherwise is respectfully mistaken. There is no research and data that has been revealed, that has revealed anything contrary to what I just said. This permit is not to build just a church, but a place to connect and change the lives of people because a strong family constitutes a great society. That benefits of supporting this application. The benefits of supporting this application far away is the decision to not support it. I hope you vote in support of this good cause. Thank you everyone. Before you go, please state where you generally resign because I don't think you get it. Oh, go, go, go. Thank you so much. Again, everyone is very important. This is for the public record. Do we, I know we have you, ma'am, are you also slanted? Okay. All right. Thank you. So you may go. Good evening, Madam Chairman, honor members of the board. My name is Michael Hool and I am a resident of Ock-Wan in the managerial district of Ock-Wan. Thanks for sticking with us tonight. I know it's been a long one. I'll keep my comments short. I didn't have anything prepared, but I just wanted to come as a member of the community to voice my opinion on the special use permit. Long time listener for a time caller. When I ended my service in the Marine Corps, I decided to choose to live in Northern Virginia without anybody here, just a background in the military and understanding the opportunity existed in North or Northern Virginia. And I decided to stay because of that opportunity and my desire to be a member of this community. As I started to move further away from DC and further south in Virginia, one of the things that I looked for was peace and serenity. When I was younger, I was told to love God, is to love the gifts that he has bestowed upon us. Nature being one of those gifts that I've always appreciated the most. So when I was looking to put down roots and I convinced my girlfriend who's now my wife to move from Seattle to come out here and join me to live together and to start a family. We look for an area that had that peace and serenity. We were fortunate enough in some of the worst times to find real estate during COVID, this neighborhood of Davis Ford Road. We really have found a village, which we hope to raise our family in. I don't envy any of the positions that you have to balance progress with the preservation of peace and serenity that we have here in Prince William County. So I know it's not an easy decision. I think you've heard a lot of technical reasons why the approval of the special use permit is going to be a challenge. But I ask you to also think about your constituents who've created a village and find peace from their jobs, their commutes, and everything else that they have to deal with during their days to go back to a quiet residential community where they can find their own peace and their own relationship with God. Now I hope the church in the congregation joins the rest of the churches temples and mosques here in the county and what they do for the community and I honestly look forward based on what they said here tonight that they can be an excellent resource for the community. I just challenge whether their location and placement in a residential neighborhood is good for everybody. So again, I empathize with the decision you have to make, but I feel that our community has an expectation of peace and I don't look to see that challenge. Appreciate it. Thank you. All right, before the next speaker I want to call. No, I think I've called, but I want to make sure 71 through 75. And if I've called you guys, let's go with 76 to 80. Some of these speakers are dropping off. So if you are 71 to 75, let's see. We don't have. when you see waiting to see. I apologize. I just want to see if anyone else is coming out. All right. I would also like to do. We don't have any main people. 76 to 80 a member of the community. That's my committee. All right. 76 through 80. All right. May I may speak? Good evening. here. I'm here to express my strong support for my church building project. I have been a member of the church for 17 years. I've also been a member of the building committee and have been fortunate to know much about the land and this project. I've had comments such as the church does not pay taxes and our prayers and I'm on fair burden on taxpayer. I would like to correct that. For the record, we do not depend on taxpayers. Money to a pray. We love our church and love God so much that we give to his cause. So souls will be saved and lives will be transformed through the saving power of Jesus. Also, we pay thousands of dollars annually on property taxes on the land. Please do not give in to this misinformation that we do not pay taxes and will be a burden on taxpayer. That's it. This is a great church that has a great pastor, great people, and a great building that will beautify Davis Ford Road. I beg of you in the name of the Lord Jesus to vote yes. Thank you for your time and consideration. God bless you. Next speaker please. Good evening, Board members and thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Steven Alcacorn. I proudly served in the United States Navy as a common, provided medical care and help in safe lives both in the US and the wild on deployment. That experience instilled in me a deep sense of service. Compassion and commitment to the well-being of others, values that continue to shape my life, my involvement in our community. I now work for the Department of Defense as an Information Systems Security Manager, and I'm here to express my support for my church building project. Transformation temple church has been an incredibly meaningful part of my life. Offering not only a place of worship, but also a new sense of community and belonging. Through this on wavering support, opportunities for service and commitment to spiritual growth, the church has profoundly shaped my faith journey. It stands as the source of hope, unity and encouragement, touching the lives of many including my own. I'm truly grateful for the positive influence it continues to have, inspiring me to grow, give back, and work in purpose. I understand they are concerned that, you know, the presence of the church on David Ford Road might endanger the lives of children born in an hesitant school buses. However an important question arises what school buses operate on Sunday mornings? The answer is clear none. There is no scenario in which the church's presence would pose a risk to children's safety in this regard. On the contrary, the church's presence would enrich the lives of children by fostering a sense of reverence and spiritual grounding, positively influencing their hearts, minds and spirits. Furthermore, this project will have no adverse effect on traffic. The Virginia Department of Transport has reviewed and support our plan, as does the Prince William County Department of Transportation. With this in mind, we respectfully ask for your support and a yes vote to approve our application. We believe this will benefit the community and county as a whole, and we sincerely appreciate your thoughtful consideration. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Before I have you, I'm gonna call up our next group. That is 81 through 85. If you are numbers 81 through 85, please make your way to board chambers and the back by the microphone. And as a reminder to everyone, state your name and where you generally reside. Good evening, members of the board of council supervisors. My name is Abby, a member of transformation temple international church and the resident of the Okokuan district. I'm honored to speak today and appreciate your dedication to guiding our community toward positive change. I hold at BS in economics and in half 11 years of experience in cyber security, specializing in information security management, risk management, advanced security practices, and ethical hacking. The Church has positively impacted my life, inspiring me to give back to the community. I fully support our CHECH vision for this project. Honourables for Vices, our CHECH's activities will boost local businesses and contribute to the community's long-term economic growth. Our CHE be a vital hub, enhancing community and individual wellbeing. In our meetings and our treaties in the community, we've been told on several occasions, and I quote, we don't want you here. Issues of traffic, septic system, et cetera, just being used as a decoy and an excuse. The main reason we are having opposition is because we meet so several that we don't want to hear. Well, in America, you don't get to deny a person, a business or a religious institution institution. They are constitutional rights because of their race or ethnicity or religious beliefs. Board of Councils, by the way, I humbly submit to you that you vote yes to transformation in terms of international. Any other vote is respectfully trumping on our rights Votes yes to God. Votes yes to transform mission temple. I am encouraged by your attentiveness and I am at ease that you will do what is lawful and godly to God and to his church. Thank you all and God bless you. Next speaker please. Good evening, Madame Chair Jefferson, Vice Chair barely, the and the State members of the board, ladies and gentlemen, I am Elhamassi's co-district. I am a registered nurse with the Master's degree in Health Services Administration, a compassionate nurse helping save lives and educating patients on how to stay healthy. I am here to express my own waving support for my church International Central Gospel change to construct transformation temple. I have been a member of the church for 15 years and I have first witnessed the positive impact that the church had had on our community. ICGC is more than a place of worship. It is a cornerstone of our community that provides invaluable services to individuals and families. Under the leadership of our pastor, Dr. Sadik Arthur, the church has consistently demonstrated a commitment to improving the lives of its congregants and the wide community through various outreach programs, educational initiatives and support activities and support services. One of the most impactful programs offered by ICGCE is the Belivellant Help that are offered to families who might otherwise be struggling financially. The church also runs scholarship for college students of which two of my children has been beneficiaries. Additionally, the church offers counseling and support for those dealing with personal and family issues ensuring that they have access to emotional, psychological and spiritual support they need. There is an inclusive and compassionate atmosphere in our church. Madam Chair, I heard someone who was opposing our application says that, and I quote quote the project would degrade water quality in streams feeding the aqua reserve protection area and harm ground water Richard for residents relying on wells on code. I am happy to bring to your attention that the church's civil engineering disagrees. His research shows that runoff from the Church has to travel nearly three miles before reaching the reservoir. Our project endages nothing. The proposed construction aligns with current zoning laws and law use plans. We are building the church for God, where lives can be transformed for the betterment of our community and nation. We kindly request the board's approval to enable us to save the community through our new church facility. Thank you. Next speaker please. Hello Board of County Supervisors and good evening to all. My name is Mel and I have been a resident Prince William County all my life. My majesty your district is Brunsville. I am currently a freshman at a top 25 university as a Clark scholar. My father is Dr. Saddick Arthur, senior pastor of Transformation Temple. I was born into the church, born again through my church, baptized through my church, learned the importance of honesty and service to humanity through my church, and I've seen the miracles and issues of God through my church. My life changed the moment I made the conscious decision to accept Christ and I am better for it. So my undying support for this building project can go without saying. Our first amendment constitutional right states that we are entitled to freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Within the right to freedom of religion is freedom to practice anywhere and clean the aqua-quan magisterial district. Our former practice is spreading the gospel and love of Jesus Christ and we can do this through having our own place of worship worship that people can come to and that we can say we own and not rent. Eight years ago our project was launched and about five years ago this application was made. In the scripture we used as motivation is Nehemiah 220. The God of heaven himself will prosper us. Therefore we his servants will arise and build. We are just mere human beings whose lives were changed through the gospel of Jesus Christ and are doing our best to heat his His word and build His house. In America, freedom of religion and freedom to worship is enshrined in our laws. Our founders feared that a day like this will come where people's religious freedoms will be violated, either by who they worship or how they look. That is what was being done to us here. The First Amendment protects us against what is happening here. The First amendment prevents the government from interfering with a person's religious beliefs. Also, the 14th amendment extends the protections of the first amendment to state and local governments. You are the local government, and the first amendment prevents you from violating our rights to worship where we want. This is where we want to worship, and as long as we are not breaking any laws and have met every single code of the local government, Constitution bars you from infringing on our right to freely build a house of worship. Our application has met county codes and laws. It is not the I met every single code of the local government, the Constitution bars you from infringing on our right to freely build a house of worship. Our application has met county codes and laws. It is not the American way of life, children are printed upon a people's rights and freedom to worship where they so desire. Since we've met county codes, and this is the land we desire to build and worship on, and since the Constitution protects this right of ours, you have to vote yes to affirm this right. Board of Supervisors, just as God said to Pharaoh, let my people go so they can be free to worship me. I also say to you, give us your approval so that we can be free to go and build transformation temple on Davis Ford Road and be free to worship our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ there. This matter is so near and dear to my heart that I left campus just to come and make my statement and there after return. My heart was so sad. And when I entered this room, trying to respectfully get a seat and saw a gentleman shove, we could even say body check. My dad passed her Arthur attempting to prevent him from getting a seat tonight. It was truly, truly disheartening, especially since we've come in peace to say our case. My generation is the future. And I know that now is the time for me to start using my voice to advocate for these might as of importance. Thank you for your time. And just quickly, I'm not sure if you mentioned but your gains will correct? Runs will. I know the time for me to start using my voice to advocate for these myres of importance. Thank you for your time. And just quickly, I'm not sure if you mentioned but your gains will correct. Ronsville. Ronsville. Okay, thank you. All right. Next speaker. Good evening. Distinguished Board of County Supervisors. My name is Nadian, a federal systems auditor by profession who resides in the Niabsco Magistarial District. I am here to speak in support of my church special use permit. I strongly know and believe that my church deserves this permit. We've worked hard, shown diligence, dedication to our vision, and demonstrated and never given up attitude. We believe we are called for this. Majority of our members at Prince William County residents. This is one of the reasons why we decided to move the church here. We live here, pay taxes here, and vote here. The scripture tells us in the lamentation in 33, verse 35 to 36, that do not deny the justice that is due a person and do not subvert the approval that pertains to the cause of God. Board of County supervisors, I humbly implore you by the mercy of God to not be the type of board that showed no reverence to God that you subverted his course. By the mercy of God, please vote yes and approve this application. This is about God. It is not about man. This is about divinity. It is not about humanity. Please don't submit God's church and do not deny His church the justice we deserve. May your hearts, minds and spirits be guided by Hebrews 1031, which says, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. May God's blessings abound towards you and your descendants because you considered God in your hearts and did the right thing by voting to approve the application of God's church. Thank you for your time and consideration. All right before the next speaker I'm gonna call up the next group of five that is 91 through 95. If you are speakers 91 through 95, please come into board chambers. Make your way to the back of the room by the microphone. 91 through 95. Give me another minute. I just want people to. All right. Thank you, everyone. Again, when you speak, your name and your magistrate district. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Again, when you speak, your name and your Magistrate district. Thank you. I have a few more people who are looking to leave. Good evening. Board of Spavises. My name is... I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. All right. Actually, what you can do because I don't want to have too many people standing up. If you feel that I've skipped a group, if you guys can come with the, um, come after the next group that I call because I don't want to have too many people standing. I'm going to skip the. Did I skip the phone through 9. 85 through 9. I have gotten that and I did have some people from that group. I also, I don't know if people were outside, but if you go ahead and just have a seat, I will call you guys. I just don't want to have too many people standing in the back congregating. So who do you want up here now? The group that I called is 91 through 95. I will go ahead and what group would you say 85 or? Yeah, I think that's the answer. 86 to 90, alright. Yeah. I will get you guys after this group. Go ahead. You may go ahead, make sure that you speak clearly into the mic so that we can hear you and always state your name in the register of district where you generally was side. Good even in both of county's devices. My name is Grace and I am a veteran and a proud at 54-51 Davis Ford Road. I have personally experienced a positive impact at this church in my life and witness is influenced on the lives of many others. Life after the military service brings its own set of challenges and finding a strong support system can make all the difference. This church has been a place of refuge, encouragement, and spiritual renewal, offering a sense of community that extends well beyond its wards. It is not merely a place of worship, but a foundation of hope, providing guidance, mentorship, and emotional support to individuals and families alike. The establishment of this new church will strengthen the fabric of our community, creating a space where people can grow in faith, find healing and support one another. It will serve us a hub for outreach, membership, mentorship and transformational programs that uplift lives and instill values that benefit the entire community. I understand they have been concerns regarding the septic system. However, I want to emphasize the following facts. Engineers and experts have confirmed that the system is fully adequate. County engineers have endorsed its as a great system. State engineers have reviewed and approved the proposed septic system. The Virginia Department of Health has issued the permit for installation. These consents have been thoroughly addressed and resolved. Both the county and application state agencies fully support this project, and the septic system is no longer a point of contention. This project is about more than just a building. It is about fulfilling God's purpose. It is a project rooted in faith, service, and community. It should be embraced, not opposed. God is in it, we stand with it. I firmly believe this project will have a lasting positive impact and bring benefits to both current and future generations. I respectfully urge you to vote in favor of this project and allow it to serve and uplift our community for generations to come. Thank you for your time and consideration. Next speaker. Good evening, but of counties, Madame Chairperson and members in their determine outside. My name is Roland Amala-Gereffel. I've been in the Coast District, Manassas since 2017. Two summers ago, my daughter graduated from Osmond High School. And she's not in the bench right now, but I did vote for him as a vaguer just to put that out there. I work as an assistant living administrator, an executive director. I attend a master's degree in health care administration, and I would reference why I'm saying this now, not to appease anybody. I'm here today to express my full support for my church building and the special use permit on Davis Ford Road. I want to touch on stormwater management. We fully are committed to installing the proper as required by the county of a tani system but for some reason now the goal post has been shipped asking us for 50 years. The reason why I highlighted my credentials in the beginning as administrator in my experience since 2014 I've been part of developing senior living communities in Northern Virginia Richmond and now in Charlottesville, housing anywhere between 150 residents, to 600 residents, 60 staff, 175 staff. And all of these buildings just also hint on the suspect system that's been talked about. These are buildings that house these residents, seven days a week, 365. And our church is not even the size of this and we have gone above and beyond what is required. There's a lot of fill in that has been said. I need you guys to look at facts. Just like my office, I deal with lives of our seniors and my decisions every day is working with government agency like Department of Social Service, APS, the Health Department, and I rely on their facts to make decisions, not fillings or families or my staff that I So I implore this board to please take a look at that as we proceed tonight. I want to also talk about what my church would do to this community. It's going to be a peel off support. We provide a safe space. We foster social care region. And we've been a good neighbor. We've gone, met with our neighbors, and we have talked to them. We have made adjustment just to be good neighbors. I'm getting emotional because there was a time when Christianity meant something. Even in the early history of the church, when the Romans were not certain about Christians, the fact that you were Christians, you were a good steward of society. And our past our leadership and our engineers have done and gone above and beyond to be good steward. And the neighbor that talked about the land, just the fact that we are the only organization that has purchased that land. It has never been sold to nobody, it is on record. You guys can look that up. So please vote and support our apartment. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good evening. My name is Dr. Bright Fleku, a professional psychologist, a residence of Woodbridge, and a member of Prince William County CSB Board from my organization. Woodbridge is a home to me and my family. I raised my three children here, the attended middle school, High schools before proceeding to college and now adults in the community. God is real and one of the things as humans we shouldn't do is to take him for granted. The church is a blessing to the community and to all of us. We are a Christ-loving church. We just want to build a church where we worship God. We are not a type of people that do supposing this godly project assume. Our focus, faith and hope, are both on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. Our Lord faced opposition even when He was here on earth, but today He is the hope of glory we are all enjoying. We are facing similar positions today as our Lord did. My honorable board members, the beginning of every good thing has obstacles and up positions. However, after the head of the obstacles and the oppositions are cleared, many added beneficiaries of the very team that was opposed. Finally, I want to humbly remind you, my board members, of the fact that that you must consider the approval of this special use-pebbit. Based on You, my board members of the fact that you must consider the approval of this special use-pebit based on criteria. And the criteria are as follows. Satisfying the requirement of the planning office which we have done and fulfilled. two, meeting county courts. We are not in less of that, as had been said by the engineers. And three, proposing to build according to law. We have done and satisfied all these conditions. We have crossed every T and dotted every I. What is left is for you, honorable members, to grant that approval so that we can move on to the next stage of our church building project. Please approve the permit and God bless each and everyone. Next speaker please. Thank you. Good evening county board of supervisors and fellow citizens. My name is Grace. I live in the Okokawan district. Okokawan is a home to me and my family. I am a registered nurse, BSN, and I also hold a bachelor's degree in education. I currently work with the Department of Medical Assessants through an MCO as a clinical case manager. I am a member of International Central Gospel Church. I am here this evening to express my support for my church's application for special use permits for our proposed church building on 5451 Davis-Ford Road. As a backdrop, Woodbridge has been a home for me and my family for several years. My children grew up here in the Okukwaan, attended Woodbridge Middle School and Garfield Senior High School before moving on to various universities, various universities. I would like to add, we are all registered voters in this community and exercise our civic rights diligently. Board of county supervisors, the impact my church has had on my life as an individual and my family's life and the community at large cannot be over emphasized. Those churches raising leaders, shaping visions, influencing society through Christ. Our church's presence in this community will help make life better. I have heard some people say incorrectly that there is 100% community opposition to this project. I wish to correct that. There are many many of my neighbors who know that this project is not about man but God. There are families who live on the Davis Ford Road corridor who support our project. During the first Zoom meeting, the representatives of my church had with Midgo and neighbor on the Davis Ford Road corridor said, and I quote, our rather have a church close to my home than 711, I quote. That is someone who supports our church. Two other neighbors express their support in the chat during the meeting and they were shut down. Feeling intimidated and fearing backlash from some of our neighbors, these support tests are free to step forward. However, they send us emails and direct messages on Facebook expressing their unwavering support to our project. Board of Council supervisors, what is important right now is not whether we have 100% community support or opposition, but the question should be, has the judgment every county requirement and the answer is resounding yes. Concluding, I would like to say that this is a very good cause and should be supported. This is not about man, but God. It is about the opportunity for many to be led to Christ, the Savior and Lord of the world. Thank you so much for voting yes to our proposal. Thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening everyone. My name is Obed and I'm proud to call the world bridge my home. I work as a cyber security analyst. For the past 14 years, I have been a dedicated member of our church and currently serving as a youth pastor. In this role, I strive to support and guide the young generation as they grow their faith in Christ Jesus. I am pleased to share that our application has never been denied. It has however been voted on once. In October 9, 2024, the Planning Commission recommended for it approval. Due to the high 10 over in the planning office, our application has undergone review by about six different planners, each of whom provided valuable feedback that we have diligently incorporated into our plans. This process has required us to revise and resubmit our application, but we remain committed to seeing it through. I am happy to report that the plan office is recommending approval and the planning commission has also recommended approval. We believe that it is now time for the board to lend its approval as well. Every county agency, including the fire rescue, police, and transportation has given their endorsement for our project. The final approval we seek to move forward can't from you the board. We are confident that the establishment of our church will to serve as a vital resource for our community, for strength, unity, and support for all. For many years, our church has been a source of comfort. It's a time. I apologize, sir, but next speaker. Time. No, it wasn't time yet. Please. She didn't put. I'm sorry. Okay. So I'm going to manually put on my time. I'm going to go ahead'm just gonna say two minutes. All right one minute. All right all right one minute to thank you. Or are you fit? Are you do you have any more to say? Just about two sentences. All right get those two sentences bro. All right. Who was I? So for many years, our chat has been a source of comfort and assistance to countless families. Being politicians, I'm sure each of you has faced series of challenges over the years in your campaign for office. And by God's grace, you have consistently worked to serve our community. Today, it will be a tremendous blessing if you could extend our support to us by granting approval for a special use permit application. May God bless you all, amen. All right, next speaker. I will also time it on my phone. Good evening. My name is Dr. Osari, and I live in the Coast, my G.C.E.R. District with my family. I am a transportation engineer by profession, and I currently consult for the Fedra highway administration. I would like to thank the Board of County Spavises for the opportunity to express my true love support for the construction of an edifice for transformation temple. As a transportation engineer, I would like to focus my submission on the traffic impacts of this project on Davies Fordwood. To examine the traffic impacts of any project, the two key issues to keep my own are safety and mobility. But before I get to that, I would like to mention that I'm not a stranger to Davis Ford Road. I drive one every other day, went taking my daughter to school, or my son to his speech appointment. As a matter of fact, I drove on it just yesterday. In terms of safety, I have heard a lot of speakers on the other side paying a very gloomy picture about the safety situation and liking that section of Davis Ford road to a death trap. Yes, Davis Ford road has some safety concerns, just like any other road facility. However, the death trap tag which has been amplified by the opposition is not not supported by data. From available V.Crash data, the section of the V.4 road within the immediate vicinity of this project has experienced two fatal or severe crashes within the past five years. The remaining five crashes within the same time period are minor in nature and mostly involve vehicle rungles or rear end crashes without any driver or pedestrian injury. Perfer to highway safety guidance, these numbers do not support the high crash location. The current safety situation will not be exacerbated by this project because of the fewer normal vehicles that will be added to the traffic mix. If we were to double the annual average daily traffic on the VISFORD road, then I would agree that it will impact safety. But we are not doing that. Power projected additional traffic of 114 vehicles on Sundays, vehicle headways would be at 32 seconds, meaning one vehicle passes every 32 seconds. The only way additional vehicles will significantly affect safety is if it reduces, or if it results in vehicle headways less than two seconds. Clearly, this project will not address the affect safety. In addition, the presence of all DT police officers to control traffic on Sundays will further lessen the crash risk. From mobility, the key question to ask is, will this project cause a stream traffic congestion on the roadway? Currently, the speed limit is 45 miles per hour and vehicles operating free flow conditions, especially on Sundays. Considering the relatively fewer number of additional vehicles that will be introduced in the traffic mix, the current traffic flow conditions should not be negatively impacted. In addition, the provision of stacking lanes and tapers will ensure that tenant traffic do not cause congestion of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of living in Manasa, called the street. I am here to express my support for my church. I have been a member of the church for 10 years, and I am one of the associate pastor. I migrate from a francophone country to the greatest nation in the world, America. I came here speaking little English. This great country has offered me so many opportunities that I stand before you today as a licensed nurse practitioner and currently pursuing my PhD in nursing. The church has been blessing, has been a blessing to me because the messages that have been preaching by our pastor keep inspiring me to not limit God and not limit myself. I took the step of faith and took the limit of and that changed the story of my life. This is a church, a good church, that you should welcome to your community. I also want to correct the misinformation that this is a commercial building. This is not a commercial building. It is a church building. The United State Department of Commerce defined a commercial building as a place used for business purposes. Among the list of commercial buildings, a church is not listed. A church building, on the other hand, is a place of worship for a Christian congregation. There is a different, there's a different. A commercial building, because it is a place of business attract traffic during business hour. A church building only attracts traffic during times of worship. In our case, it is only on Sunday morning when there will be a few more cars driving on David Ford road to the church. It is also on Sunday morning when there is practically no traffic. That is the time of our church service. Any argument that we will make traffic was with all due respect, it is not a valid argument. Let the Tornomy 618 guard your heart and decision tonight. The verse says, do what is right, do what is good in God's sight and you will live long. May God bless you all. Thank you. All right. Before next speaker, 86 to 90. A690. All right, you may speak. Good evening, everyone. I hope everyone is doing well. Please speak into the microphone. Sure. We, we'll move it up so we can hear you again name and where you generally reside. OK. My name is Marum. I live and vote in the Brunsville District with my family of five. I'd like to start by acknowledging the board of supervisors and attendants and expressing my gratitude for the opportunity to speak today in support of the SUP for my church transformation temple. I have called Prince William County home for the past 16 years. I went to Buckland Mills Elementary School, Ronald Reagan Middle School, and Battlefield High School. During those years, I actively volunteered, competed in track and field, and volleyball at state championships, and participated in county and district honor choirs, all while excelling academically. I've represented this county with pride and is time to advocate for an institution near to my heart. I'm pursuing a medical career and my sense of purpose in drive to serve others was shaped in our house of worship. Proverbs 22 verse 6 says, train a bitch out in the way that he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. I thank my parents for raising me in the church because it shaped me into who I am today. I have fun memories during my adolescent years, reading announcements on stage, delivering sermons during youth week, and reading and leading praise and worship. Those early experiences taught me to overcome fear and exude confidence. The biblical value of compassion instilled in me guides my interactions with patience, peers, and everyone I meet. I'm confident that every member of our congregation would say the same. Anyone who enters our ministry leaves better than when they arrived. As an aspiring physician scientist who has conducted, presented, and published research, I have developed a passion for investigation. Research is performed for experts to issue their opinion, conclusion, and facts on problems. In the U.S., impossible is what we do best. My church hired and worked with reputable, soil engineers, stormwater management engineers, civil engineers, traffic engineers and independent engineers who have put their credibility and professional license on the line to endorse our plan and produce pristine plans and blueprints. The great prophet Isaiah asked in the Bible, whose report would you believe? Will you believe the reports of the experts or the statements of amateurs, the engineers or the non-engineers? Board of supervisors, I implore you to believe the experts inside with them. Side with the planning office and side with the planning commissioners. Our project should be approved because it represents an investment into our community. Moreover, Jesus is here in every aspect of our ministry. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good evening, Board of County Supervisors. Hello, I'm Ann. I'm a resident of the Coles district. Both of my children go to school in Prince William County. I've been an active member of ICGC for over 16 years, and I'm wholeheartedly in support of our church's projects, because I believe without any reservation whatsoever, that our presence will have a very positive impact in the community. Change is often difficult, because as humans, we are naturally wide to see comforts in familiarity and routine. This makes it difficult for people to step outside of their comfort zones to adapt to something new. The thought of change triggers anxiety and discomfort in people. So we understand how our prospective neighbors are feeling. Trust me, we totally understand. You've driven past Davis Ford Road for years, and all you've seen on our land is trees. However, as owners of the land, this is what we want to put on the land, a church building. It's changed that's hard for you. We get it, but please understand and accept this change. It was John F. Kennedy who said, change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are setting to miss the future. It was Charles Ketterin who said, the world hates change, yet is the only thing that has brought us progress. Change is good, please embrace it. God's Church is a symbol of spiritual light to the spirit of a neighborhood. Why would you resist spiritual light? We are simply a group of people who love people, love the Lord Jesus Christ and we want to spread his love and shine his light in this community and the world at large. We are family oriented, friendly and well-educated professionals. You will love our presence here because you will find us to be a loving and peaceful church group who are full of the light of God. I encourage the Board of Counties' Provisors to fully support our projects and vote yes to approve the application of God's Church because I believe that our presence would absolutely make a difference in the community. Thank you very much for your time, attention and consideration, God bless you. I apologize. What is the Magistrate or District here from again? Of course, okay. All right, before we get to you, sir, I wanna call up our next group, and that is 96 to 100. So if you are 96 to 100 Please make your way to the back of the room inside of our chambers line up and speak Let me give people a moment to move around get settled and That is 96 through 100 All right. All right. I thought I was going to be last. Oh, no. Speaking to the microphone. Want to make sure we hear you. Sure thing. Can you hear me now? I can hear you. Okay, great. So County supervisors, Madam Chair, I'll be brief. I just wanted to touch. BAME IN DISTRICT. I'm sorry, my name is Sig Friedoval Doble, for real. I've lived at my house on Davis Ford for 35 years. All right, thank you. Okay. So yeah, I'd like to expand on something that Supervisor Vega touched on, and that's the water line. When we replaced the treatment plant with the water line, we could have made that any size we wanted to. But we kept it small on purpose. And that was to avoid and discourage over development. And so we had given enough capacity for aqua-clamp forests and a little bit of extra for the Davis Ford corridor. And that was for emergency use in case, you know, Wells failed and we had to tie into that. So the fact that you had to ask twice kind of tells me that the church is going to use up all that extra capacity. And that would then be a violation of the agreement we had between Davis Fort Corridor, the county, the water authority, and Icon Forest. And so that kind of makes me think of the movie The Empire Strikes Back. Now, thinking of the scene where where Darth Vader is really leaning hard on Billy D. Williams, he says, I'm altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it further. So please don't be Darth Vader. Vote no. Thank you. Next. Next speaker please. Hi, good evening. My name is Deidre Coppage. I live in Ockquan District and have owned property in the county since 1984. I am a proud employee of the Prince William County Parks and Rec Department. I sincerely and very strongly urge the the county board to not approve this project for all of the reasons that have been spoken about the traffic and I have to drive that that on Davis Ford and often enough to know that the traffic is only going to get worse, especially if there are going to be this many people that we found out just this evening that there will be other services besides Sunday. There will be multiple services during the week, during times that we didn't know about before. Additionally, the degradation to the environment, the runoff. I was on the LOCA Civic Association Zoom call before, two days before the horrible storm that happened in North Carolina and Asheville. So all of these plans that were made for 10 year, 20 year, and even 50 year storm damage have been wiped out. And that will happen here too as the weather gets worse and worse with people cutting down more and more trees, the trees absorb water, et cetera. But I am also strongly against the incursion of church on good, strongly against the incursion of church on government. Many of the members of the church have not spoken about how the church is going to actually affect their neighbors. And yes, people have feelings and they have property and money and all kinds of relationships in their community. And I don't think that has been addressed by the members that have spoken this evening, the members of the church that have spoken this evening. It's a bit of a one disregard for what will happen to the people who own property adjacent to the proposed project. Additionally, nobody has said that they disregard or do not want the church as it is. Churches have place. They just it just does not belong in this place. And for that reason, please, please do not approve this project. Thank you. Next speaker, please. I need this. I'm sorry you're looking for Elmo, the use Elmo. The projector? Yes, I am. Other way maybe. Okay. So the way way can you all? Beautiful thank you. Virginia C-Stronk, Albuquan District. I personally understand the congregation more than you think and I admire the determination. Coming here after work, living young children at home, you're building a church. And ten years ago I stood in your shoes. We fought hard to build our church in Potomac among multimillion-dollar houses, large lots, and like you, we believe that our neighbors did not understand our vision, especially that most of us are immigrants in the country. We prayed believing that we were bringing God to the presence of this land but well different. Unlike you the location was appropriate. Our church was on the road with fewer curves, more lanes, larger homes and no no reservoir, and we did not disturb much land. However, in the hindsight, with wisdom, I personally regret not considering more the impact of so many people going in and out of our building and to the community. I see pictures here with all of you that sing and your vibrant and passionate. You have a congregation that's dancing and is supporting your faith. But did you ever think about the noise? This area is serene. All you can hear in here is birds. And this is what makes it special. You will host workshops and festivals and gathering to pay for the church and support yourself, which is absolutely normal. We do the same thing. But I have five acres. When I, I'm not sure if you see very well, but it's a printout. When I host a party of 70 people, Prince William County asks me for a spursure permit. You will not have to have a permit. You're not only asking for a spursure permit to be in there, but this is going to cover you every single time. You bring experts in here and tell us everything is fine, but they told us, you know, round up was fine too, you know? And you're painting us, you're painting your pastor as being a person of faith, but there are so many reports from your own congregation about his behavior, about what he has done in the past. There are many more than this one. And you paint us as bad Christians, but we only ask you to choose one land that is just two miles down the road on the same on Haudenosa Davis Ford road. It is just one mile and a half. Sorry here and this is the land. This is the land here and this is what you're choosing in here. We just ask you to move a little bit further down the road and it's okay. It's going to unite us as a community. Thank you. Next speaker please. Thank you for this opportunity to voice my concerns on this project. My name is Sarah Cain and I live in Ockock, one forest five minutes away from this parcel. My family chose this area for its rural feel and you would be letting your constituents down to approve this project. This area was suffer from such a large structure and it will permanently change the rural residential life of Davis Ford. Traffic problems will increase in addition to environmental damages. Additionally, I am concerned about the light pollution at night. If they have large parking lots, will there be flood lights above them? This could also damage the quality of life around them. You've been asked by some of the temple congregation to ignore what the residents think and feel and just to listen to what their experts say. But this is our community they wish to join. There have been many other sites recommended, which would better fit them. In conclusion, this site is not right for a building of this size. I urge you to vote no on the special use permit. All right, before I get to you, Mr. Arthur, 101 through 103, if you can make your way into the board chambers and if there's anyone else who has signed up to speak who has a card but Mr. Spot please come in and line up at the back. All right Mr. Arthur the floor is yours. Please may I have five minutes. Yes you may. Thank you very much. So my name is Sadik Arthur and a good evening board of county supervisors and a good evening to everyone. I am the pastor of this wonderful congregation, some have to leave because they have younger children. Their loving group of people is just a privilege and an honor to pastor them them and to be their leader. I also want to acknowledge my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that He will find me worthy to suffer for Him. I was born in Muslim but while I was in my mother's womb, He knew me. Now one day He has to separate me from my father's religion and convert me into Christianity. Didn't know that this was what was in for me. So Lord Jesus, I thank You. It's a privilege, definitely, to serve You, to know Your Word, and to teach Your people Your Word. And it's even a greater honor that You find us, a group of immigrants who came here simply for a living and that You will call us into Your kingdom that We will be a people to build you a church. The Lord wants us to build a church and He wants us to build it on 541 Divis 4th Road. Definitely you would wonder the why that place, why not any other place. I'll take a moment to address that. But firstly I had someone say that I have called them sinners sinners or fools. Please I won't spend even an ounce of explanation on it. Saddick other would never say that. And I don't speak like that. So please don't consider that. Not only that, I've been called several things, I've been called that thing. Someone pushed me trying to find seats seat. You know, I have acted, you know, in a civil Christian way. We've been also told, I mean, you have shown pictures and shown things, you know, of what, what, I don't even know what was shown there. But nonetheless, I will address any other person. But would simply say that this accusation of being called fools or uh have never said. The sin is this is the first time I'm even hearing the sin as part. So things are being made up and that is not true. We are being told that we will limit ourselves and cannot grow. May I please submit to you humbly that where we are now there was a time where we grew to over 600. I split the church into four and planted three satellite churches out of it and kept a quarter. So a mega church is no my vision and mega churches know what I feel God called me to do. But church planting is the call of my call. So our vision is simply the establishment of of model new testament, Christians and churches. So as long as I'm planting churches for the Lord Jesus Christ, no matter how small it is, whether it's a small-sized church, medium-sized or whatever you are. I'm okay. So numbers is no my drive. So this is going to be a 208-seater building. We are 120 people now. Church history shows that when you move, you lose a percentage of the people because of proximity or distance to the new place. So definitely the numbers we have now, those that live far definitely some will move on. But even should we bring all the 120, it's 208 seats. We have about 80 people more to add to it. And if we are if we are greater place our plants at like churches have done it before some of the pastest that I raised planted churches for were here and I send them out didn't send them out empty handed rented a place for them bought instruments for them so that they will have a place to worship this is what we stand for so So don't be bothered about the growth aspect. We are not a group of fools like we've been talked about that. We have services every day in July. Yes, we do. And 21 days in January. Yes, you do. We do. But may I tell you, most of them are on a virtually. And the ones that we know will attract a lot of crowd, we move them outside. So like this past July we had a 30-day fasting and prayer. The major activity is on Sunday morning. I knew that we were going to out I mean our overcrowded place. Sense and common sense told us that don't use the place we went to full-stretch Mario and use their conference room. The Their whole month spends tens of thousands of dollars simply to gather there. So people are speaking, I see this group of people who are refraughts, don't have common sense, can think, would obey their law, you know, please we work. We do it where we are, we don't overcrowded the place, and we move our services. When we know it's a special service and we have crowd outside the building. And then lastly, you know, with the 20 seconds I have, I simply want to say this, I refuse to give up. Why? When I became a Christian, I was told I was crazy. When I told a good friend of mine, I'm going to marry my wife. She told me, he told me that's a bad choice. And that bad choice, I've been married with her for 24 years and that person is working on the third marriage. So I've been told crazy several times. This one I've been told also, but we're going to do it because the Lord wants a property on that place. Thank you next speaker please. I'm used to removing my... And actually before we get to you, ma'am, the non-resident speakers. I have some people signed up as non-residents if you can make your way to the back of the chambers and get in line to speak. And again for everyone, I'm sorry. Guys, I'm sorry. I Want to make it able to give instructions for people to hear me and again, state your name Magistral district or if you're outside of the county where you are from. Thank you. Absolutely. Good morning. I'm Amanda Excuse me. I live on River Heights Lane just off of Davis Ford in the aqua corn district I've mostly come up to reiterate what my neighbors and friends have already stated throughout the night and that I oppose the project because I have concerns for all of the different variables that it will affect, including but not necessarily limited to the construction erosion, the traffic. We already have a history of having problems on the road as have been stated, you know, especially with how dangerous of a turn that is, we've already had death at it. And now you want to put a officer in the road that just doesn't seem fair to the officer to me. Regarding the environmental impact, I used to work for a stormwater management contractor and those super-silt fences that were mentioned away at the beginning of the evening, they really only work if they're properly installed and maintained throughout the construction and that doesn't always go over well on major construction projects. Not to mention they're removed at the end of the construction project, so there would still be that after damage. Most of, I think the biggest thing for me though is going to be that approving the project at this location is going to open the door. It may seem like a small thing now, it may just seem like the one thing, but it's going to open a door for other things later that will then eventually pile up in all of it in terms of traffic in terms of the environment in terms of how the neighbors feel about it in terms of all of it. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Next speaker please. Good morning Chair Jefferson and members of the board. I'm Martin Jeeter. I live in the Aqon district. I'm here representing the Mid-County Civic Association. I won't need to five minutes. It's late and I'll be brief. We sent you a letter outlining our concerns with this project. So many people have spoken to these things already. I'm not going to go into detail and repeat all those. I want to keep any longer, any have to be here. We've worked with Pastor Arthur and O'Lan, his representative, and other members of the church for five years now, little over five years actually, had the first meeting with him up here at Panera before I think it was before he even submitted to the county. And from the very beginning, we urged Pastor Arthur to find a more suitable place for his church. the same thing. We have done the same thing. We have done the same thing. We have done the same thing. We have done the same thing. We have done the same thing. We have done the same thing. We have done the same thing. We have done the same thing. We have done, who's here earlier, has actually reached out and found some suitable parcels that may work. So everybody's been kind of on the same bandwagon to try to help them out. But they've fixed it on a parcel. And yes, you can make this application work on this parcel. There's really no question about that. If you wanted to spend enough money and move enough dirt, you could put the Empire State Building on this parcel. I mean there's engineering ways to make anything work. So we understand that. But the question is, is it a good idea? Is it a good idea for the community? Is it a good idea for the church? I believe Pastor Arthur when he says this church is never going to grow any more over 208 seats. I believe when he says that, but is it fair to restrict a church and say you can never gain one more person into your congregation? I don't think that's fair to the church. I don't think that's a good idea to limit it that much. And with this parcel, that's something that's necessary. They want, I mean, any church wants to do more for more people. I respect what the pastor just said that they will build more churches, more satellite churches if they need to do that. And that's fine. But as I said, I'll be brief. The SEP process is designed to decide whether or not an application works on a given parcel. And I think it's clear and it's clear from the beginning that it does not work on this parcel. We're convinced there are better parcels that are available in Prince William County for them. And we urge them to find a better parcel. It's unfortunate that you've been put in a position where you're between the church and a community, but you are in that position, and we recommend we urge you to recommend the Nile on this application. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Gede. And I think we have one more speaker to come before us, resident speaker. Thank you. Kyle Forshey, Aquaquan District. County Board, it's late. I'll make it quick. I waited until the end. I wanted to hear from residents also from practitioners. And I think these practitioners are great people. in 16 square feet. and the staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members and staff members Why? building there but that doesn't mean you should. I waited specifically for one reason. I wanted to know why. Why that parcel? Why not somewhere else? Nobody who has spoken this evening has answered that question for me. Therefore I ask the board to please vote 10-0 and reject this permit. Thank you. Thank you, sir. And now for our non-resident speakers. Good evening, Board of County supervisors. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Dr. Kimoye Pigey, and I'm a member of fulfillment temple. I currently reside in the effects calendar. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Dr. Kimoy Pigey and I'm a member of fulfillment temple. I currently reside in CFX County. Can you tell us where you're from, please, ma'am? I currently reside in CFX County in the Mount Vernon Magisterial District. I hold a PhD in pharmacology and have worked as a professor at Virginia Commonwealth University and as an associate program director at the National Science Foundation. I support Grant and Transformation Temple special use permits. Being a part of the church community has been incredibly rewarding, personally, spiritually, and professionally. For example, the sincere love and empathy I experienced more than a year ago when the group supported me after the devastating death of my cousin. I was encouraged, uplifted, and brought back to life. They carried my entire family, stretching hundreds of miles. Board of County supervisors, these are the people you will encounter at Transformation Temple. A people who exemplifies the greatest commandment, love God and love people. I love that extends into the community and to our neighbors. We are a fateful, vibrant, and loving church family. Families need a home, which 5451 Davis Ford Road, Woodbridge, Virginia, 22192 is to us. Our home on scene yet imagined, hope for, and envision. Transformation template is a place that welcomes everyone, diverse and inclusive of all cultures and backgrounds. We are committed and dedicated to God's work and ready to integrate into our new community. Over the years, a growing body of evidence has sought to understand the influences of faith-based organizations within their surrounding community. The general consensus is that the presence of a church communicates a sense of belonging, safety, stability, sacredness, and serenity, and increases property values. A binary research group study found that 78% of U.S. adults view these organizations as positive for their community while 20% see them negatively. Dr. Eric Thompson reported at homes within a one mile radius of religious entities have 9 to 15% higher property values with those closest being the most valuable. Collectively, the literature describes several benefits of having a church in the community. These include but are not limited to initiatives to engage directly with the community, opportunities for jobs and local business support, social assistance, being a hub with volunteers for community projects, and offering educational programs for youths and adults. Board of County supervisors, we the people of transformation temple, we have listened to and acknowledged the concerns of the people of the Okokuan district in Prince William County. We have also responded sympathetically in all areas. We would like to honor our God with the same level of respect and execute his vision in complete obedience. I encourage you to support this project and recommend approval of the building permit for transformation temple. Thank you for your time. Next speaker. Good evening. Board of County supervisors. My name is Abina. I live in the Fairfax County where the church is currently located in the Sully Magisterio district. I've been attending for from the temple since 2008 and has become Having gone through the children's ministry, youth ministry, and now in the adult church where I serve in the media department, I can unequivocally say that the church has instilled great value in me that influences how I live my life. Our church has always emphasized the importance of faith, unity, and the pursuit of a higher purpose. Building transformation temple represents our commitment to fulfilling that higher purpose. This has been a passion project for several years now, all why as someone asked. We've prayed for it, given generously to it, and now eager to have our vision realized. Our church drives for excellence in everything that we do. We not only ensure that our church and the surrounding areas are well kept, but we also actively engage in cleaning up and contributing to the broader community through service projects outreach and evangelism. We continuously strive to give back and support the community in every way we can. We wanna make that positive impact in this community as well and our quest to making Alchicron District the new home of our beloved church. We are committed to maintaining excellence in everything we do. That is why we have made the necessary adjustments to our building plan, contracted the right experts, and gone through all the necessary procedures. We're not taking any concerns lightly or going through any shortcuts. I would like to reiterate the point of future expansion or overcrowding. We've had a number of previous large-scale events that were moved to more spacious and accommodating venues, such as the large conference rooms in Mary-At-Hotel and Falls Church and the Northern Virginia Community College Campus, to ensure we would not go over any occupancy limits. This goes to show the type of church leadership that we have, and we operate in the same regard when it comes to our new building, ensuring we abide by all codes and regulations. I hope that you will consider our dedication and positive impact to vote yes. Thank you so much for your time. Next speaker please. Good evening board and board of county supervisors and fellow citizens. My name is Alex and I'm a member whose family drives from Loudon County to weekly services in Springfield. I'm an entrepreneur and a proud owner of the Medical Emergency Transportation Business, which has been providing services to Prince William County for the past decade. I'm a devoted child of God, a good husband to a loving wife, and a father to our four beautiful girls. I started attending this church in 2013, and it has been a tremendous blessing to my life, marriage and family. The International Central Gospel Church provides me with an inspiration to dive deeper into the word of God and discover a like-minded community. That is why I'm in full support of the Church Building Project in Woodbridge since majority of my brothers and sisters in the Lord leave here. At the International Center Gospel Church, my wife and I and our four beautiful children have been exposed to the blessings of a sound biblical teaching. At the church, we met some of our dearest friends in the world. This is a great church to have on David's four-road. I would like to address a concern that is that our sights proximity to the Aquacorn Reservoir Protection Area will result in a runoff that negative negatively impacts the reservoir. As demonstrated by our legal representation, runoff from our site would have to traverse nearly three miles to reach the protected area. I would like to emphasize this point. The runoff would have to travel three whole miles. This evidence clearly shows that it is misleading to claim that our site is directly on the protection area and will degrade the water quality of the reservoir. We are not directly on the Okokwan reservoir protection area. It will not degrade the water quality and as has been alleged. It is important to remember that to alleged means to assert without proof. There is no proof to support these allegations. The proof is that runoff from our site would travel nearly three miles, making it impossible for it to cause any degradation. We have fulfilled all county requirements and have received a recommendation for approval from each county agency. I respectfully request that you vote yes. Thank you for your time and consideration, God bless. Next speaker please. Good morning. So my name is Ibn Tadiqweilal, a husband, a father, a veteran of the United States Navy, an attorney, a resident of White Plains, Maryland, and a member of this church. This morning, we've spoken a lot, so I'll just focus my support for approval on two key topics, misinformation and transformation. A coup by Carl Sandberg, a coup by Dan Professor in law school, remains relevant. If If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell. This information is just like pounding the table and yelling like hell. There's a tall list of misinformation that has plagued this planet. Despite the various modifications accepted and concessions made.ions made, you probably have already had a lot tonight, so I won't bore you with a list in them. You've also had the facts, the facts are. The planning office saw through the misinformation and recommended approval. The planning commission is saw through the misinformation. I recommended approval. Let's face it, the group of people in this country who's every action, even if we're intentioned, will always be policed or opposed. So you have a daunting task ahead of you. A task not just to decide whether a police or worship is built, but a task to decide whether lives are transformed or not. And I appreciate you for taking on this task. I'll let you in on the transformational story that Pastor shared with me last week. This story is as old as time so you probably heard about it. And I'll let brevity be my guide and summarize it. It's about the story of Saul who later became poor in the Bible. Initially, Saul strongly opposed Elicristianity. However, a profound experience later has conversed. Transforming him into one of Christianity's most influential figures. This demonstrates the power of transformation and potential for change. So if you've had the story of Paul before and you believe in this transformational outcome, obey your hearts and approve this permit, if you've never had about this story of Paul, open your hearts and approve this permit, if you've had the story about Paul before but you did not believe in this transformational outcome, no pressure. I invite you to let these four things be your guide. The merits of the application itself, any transformation or story in your life that you believe in, a district God for misinformation, and difference for the planning commission's recommendation for approval. Thank you so much for your time and consideration, I you. All right, I think everyone who has stayed and who has spoken, I know that this is very early. We are in three hours of the morning. We do not have any online speakers. What I am going to ask for if there is any audience who has not spoken. If you have not spoken during this public hearing, but you have something I see folks, I don't know if you're running. And please, how many people do we have? Is that people lining up? If you can come in and take a seat, if you're in the atrium, if you can come in to the board chambers and have a seat, help me keep better track of folks. We still have quite a few seats over here and I see some in the front. We have quite a few seats open. Alright folks, if people can kind of, then I'm going to ask them to stand up. How many people I just want to show of hands who want to speak, who have not had a chance to speak? Is there anyone raise your hand, if you want to speak? All right. I want to say it's one last time because if no one raises their hand, I'm going to close the public hearing. Is there anyone who has not spoken who would like to to speak raise your hand. All right. I do not see anyone. So I am going to go ahead and close the public hearing. The public hearing for item 15B is now closed. So with that, I would like to entertain a motion. I moved to approve the SUP with the conditions dated March 4th 2025 Okay All right, I'm going to open this for discussion among members of the board. Please jump into queue if you have something you would like to speak on All right supervisor we're Madam chair. Is there an opportunity to ask questions before we get into the specifics? You want to ask questions again for the applicant. They still come to the public comment. All right. I know Mr. Arthur is here. Is your attorney still here? Is your council still here? All right, Mr. C, come on down, bro. We do, I just want to reiterate, we do have an open motion that's been properly seconded. If you have questions for the applicant's attorney, go ahead and jump into Q. Supervisor, where I see you, I'll get back to you later. But if you have questions, you had a question, okay? So, Franklin, kind of pretty am. So, all that's Franklin, we are Bailey. These are questions for the applicant to clarify. Yeah, just very quickly. There was some discussion about a lot of mitigating factors that residents had concern about. that mitigating going north, but not south. I was wondering if you can hit on that and then more specifically some of the soil issues for those that have properties behind the site. A lot of, well, a number of them talked about issues with erosion with regards to soil. And then also, if you can just highlight some of the conditions that you're offering and just so that we're clear on what those are. Okay, with regard to the conditions, what we're doing is we're offering to comply with the SEP plan itself. In other words, what's on that plan? We'll be what we're gonna do, nothing outside that. We're also proffering not to do anything other than church uses on the site. We're proffering to deal with light pollution on the site and keep all the light onto the site. We're proffering noise mitigation as well. We're proffering. We have a number of proffers that we're providing that address all the issues, including transportation issues. So a lot of what we talked about during comment time, I think we've addressed the profits. Including the special events, we've limited to four events. We have. Profred to. I think there's a whole list of them. I can't think of them all right now but. Sure and just to be clear, those considerations you're offering on your own outside of. Exactly, that's right. Okay. Yes, those are all volunteer profits. Thank you. Madam Chair, members of the board, just for clarification, Mr. Simmons, you said earlier that there was a discussion that you might be voluntarily offering as a mitigation factor to limit the number of services. That's correct. Is that what your client is voluntarily on the operation of the adivating? Yes. That would be an additional condition that you're offering. That would be, yes. And that would therefore make supervisor Bailey's motion of approving the SUP with the conditions dated today, her motion. That's correct. Thank you, sir. That's correct. Thank you. Then just very quickly, just going back to the soil and erosion issue. If you can just talk a little bit about that. I need to have the experts come up and talk about those. Sorry, yes. Are you, I'm sorry, do you have your experts? Are they still here? I'll bring them in. Okay. And Mr. Summit, you can have your seat take a, your team take a seat in the building height. Also, we've offered landscaping all throughout the site as well. Interior Parking about landscaping, the monument sign, the size of the site, the size of the sign itself. We prefer the historical marker as well. So there's a lot there. And you're yield supervisor for? Good night. Good night. I'm Ron schools. Could I answer a question about erosion control? Yes, sir. Our site will have a stormwater management facility under the parking lot. And that's where our water will discharge. There is already an existing well-defined swale at that area. There is a house not far behind us, but there about 30 feet up the hill from where this water will run. And I think we have four or 500 feet to go and then we hit the creek that's down there. All of that is in an RPA, so there are no houses around there. Thank you. Was there any other questions for UNS controls or mitigation? I did not, okay. I would just sit there, because we have more people. I see you and Q, supervisor, we are new, you had questions too. Thank madam chair morning. Oh long. Um, do you have a Squirt footage for the sanctuary congregation hall? Whatever you want to call it The size of the building itself Approximate square footage I can't hear yeah, um,'t think there's any square footage for the floor plans that we have We just have the size of the building itself I just I just wanted to decide the congregation hall or the sanctuary where where the seating would be Let's see I'm sorry I need my slides. You made your dimensions. I'll do the math. Yeah. Yeah. You can step forward and step forward. It's going to be great. How are these? I think this stuff for it is. The problem is great. Is that what you want? Our, the... Do you want an advocate? And the staff report, it clearly states, the sanctuary, the 208 seats, is approximately 3680 square feet. 3680. Okay, Mr. Schools, as long go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. I'm going to go to the office. So you're going to point discharge into a swale, which will go into the creek, which is different in sheet flow. I got two issues with that. One, you're going to point discharge into a soil which will go into the creek, which is different in sheet flow. I got two issues with that. One, you're changing from sheet flow to point discharge and you know we can argue all day about this, but that will create erosion in the channel. But if you're going to be discharged again to the stream, then I don't hear anybody say the water's not going into the aqua, because I've got water that goes into streams in hay market 24 miles away from here that ends up in the aqua. So the premise that water's not going to travel to the aqua is quite frankly a false. I think we had an exhibit that said we are two and a half miles from the two and a half miles from the two and a half miles a hell of a lot shorter than 24 from the Reservant to the Reservant and I've got P-Fos and and salinity coming from the gains will district you know I'm gonna ask this and look at micron Mount Shats that's the two questions I have there's 3600 and eight was that what the number was? Yes, you can see it on the slide. It's a sanctuary. 3608. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much. Bailey, you were in queue. I don't know if you still had a question. If not, I'll go on to that. Yeah, no, not a question. Just a brief comment. Just want to appreciate and thank all of the citizens that came out tonight, both the church and the residents. We really appreciate you hanging in there with us, all of you, and voicing your opinions and your care, and because this is a very difficult decision, but I appreciate your time that you hung in there with us. That's all I wanted to say, Memchair. All right, supervisor Vega. Thank you, Muncher. Alex, if you could please come up. There were some concerns raised about parking. Can you talk about the parking and where we're at in terms of spots? So I'm gonna actually heat turn that over to George, if want to talk about the Oh, sure George Phillips with Prince William County DOT. What was a specific question about parking? So that it wasn't adequate it wasn't enough and again, these are stemming from comments made during public comment time the The DCSM requires one parking space per three seats and they're providing I think one parking space. One parking space per two and I think they're doing that to accommodate or allow for additional parking on site. So the bay then don't have to have people shuttled in. I'm assuming. So. Okay. Thank you for that. And then the planning commission because there was also some allegation that that failed at the PC level was so that that is not correct I have a list of things that you know people mentioned on both sides that weren't you know that needed correction but one of them was the PC voted to approve the case you are correct thank you Thank you for that. And then the situation with St. Margaret's Episcopal Church, that church is operating it passed also yes, because that was a surprise. That is correct. I went back and looked and it did. It was approved in 2012. OK. I think that it would save us time, Alex, if you go down whatever you're your list. So if you could please. Yeah, just really, really quick. We evaluate each application based on the use that will occur on the property. We don't look at other properties for the potential use. So that's one of the first things. We have subject matter experts. And in this case, it wasn't just county staff. We have people from the Commonwealth of Virginia independent agencies, the authority looking at all this material, and they provided their comments. And at this point, fine with you know the application itself. Of course with every application you have some shortcomings but there was a question about the I'm glad Michelle handled that with the permitted uses if we can rest you know if they if they commit to only doing so many services I think that and and spread it out I think they had 10-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-aggers out the services. So there was a question about parking, people parking on Davis Ford Road or in other neighborhood streets. There's a specific condition for C that addresses that parking limitation. Let's see here, what else? So, the traffic impact data that is, we obtain that from the subject matter experts and they can, you know, they confirm that the data is correct. I heard some, I won't say that there was too many trips or something like that. I'm sorry, I'm a little tired, but so also someone said there was no address. was put in the the resolution the first page of the staff report and and in the presentation So that's that needed to be corrected the police station is 28 Thousand square feet. It's not 18,000 someone said it was the same side The petition staff has not seen. I know from the applicant we received petitions for 3,215 petitions in favor of it but we have not staff has not had an opportunity to evaluate that and go through that nor have we seen that one and had the opportunity to go through that and verify that would take some time. Let's see what else. I think in general that's it, but you know, they are limited to four special events. Okay, so any of these events that people have been talking about, they're limited because that's not considered a service, so therefore they're limited to four special events. They can get a what we call a tap, a temporary activity permit, but that's a limited time as well. It's not, you know, for a long period of time. The- Okay, that's all I can think of All right, so thank you very much Stay there obviously because we have supervisor Gordy Thank you madam chair. I do I'm so just going back to what you just said so A tap is usually for events that are taking taking place outside. When you're creating noise and things like that. So the four events we're talking about are simply events that are onsite but not inside the building. So we're not saying that other events cannot take place inside the building. You know, I was saying that they're limited to four events inside the building. Okay, so... And I'll say this because our LEPA specifically states we cannot limit the exercise of religion. So we may be taking this too far in terms of the proffers. And now I'm getting very concerned about how far this is going and what the limitations would be on their free exercise. So and I just want to make sure that we're not limiting them on in terms of their ability to hold events inside their building. Right. In the permitted uses, they say applications will not include private school, use or child day care use, and no more than four special events shall occur per year. And those are limited to the weekend. the limit to the weekend, but that's outside or inside? It does not specify in the conditions, but it does say no amplified outdoor music shall be allowed. And provided music or other amplified sounds shall not be audible beyond the property lines. OK. The in the transportation piece it talked about That they shall provide for for these special events If it exceeds they would need to provide the mitigation traffic mitigation if it exceeds the parking lot capacity So it would not so when any special event they would need it unless it's anticipated to exceed the parking lot capacity. I believe that's correct. Okay. And then just one clarifying on page four, environmental plan, the site does contain steep slopes in the road, one in poor soils, the slopes are being mitigated by the building sign and final layout to the extent possible. Are you telling me that is that a statement stating that there are some things that are just impossible to mitigate on this site? So what we're saying is that based on our evaluation that that there are some things that may not be, might not be fully mitigated from that potential use. But the applicant did commit to addressing those issues at site plan. We can't evaluate everything until we get the final site plan plans to make sure that everything's been addressed. That's concerning. And then on the, and Olon, if you could help me on this when you're your stormwater management. So based upon the diagrams that I've seen, the stormwater retention facility is on one side of the building. And it looks like the roof flows to that side, to everything from the roof down, that parking lot will go into that facility. What about the parking lot on the other side? I think it designs what all flows into the facility. Okay. Is that right, Ron? That's correct. That that car plant actually rises as it comes back. There's a hole there. So it flows back towards Davis for road, gets into the storm drain system there and goes to the storm water management area. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. thank you, Supervisor Boady. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to everyone who's hung out with us all night into the morning. Couple questions. Let's start along with your expert that was just here. Forget your name, sir, sorry, it's late. So you mentioned earlier that some of that is aware of or we were just asked earlier. Captures the flow, discharges it into, down the gully basically and out. Correct. That flow today is not sheet flow. Right. There is a natural soil that is at the back corner of our site and that soil continues until you get to that creek that's five or six hundred feet away. And air flows will be reduced from the flows that are there now because of this stormwater management that we're in point. Okay and and remind me, this is up to a 10-year standard. Okay, that's correct. And I assume that you all have done the modeling necessary to even looking at the fact that we've had more extreme weather. We do the modeling as part of the final site plan. A final site plan. Yes. And we adjust the size of the underground system in order to get that results that we're looking for. Did you look at permeable surfaces at all for the asphalt as part of the stormwater management system? No. For two reasons. One, air parking lot, the one that's on the east side, is about 5 percent grade. So the water will run towards the bottom of it where it's catcher in the catch basins and so forth and indirect it to the underground system. Because you really, the permeable pavement works best when you have soils that have high percolation rates and so forth. We don't have that. We have it in our drain field area, but not over the whole site. Gotcha. And my last question on that note, we're talking about finished built environment state right now, right? Talk to me a little bit more about phasing of the clear cutting of the current site and how you're going to make sure that in clearing the site, especially of mature trees, we're not going to run into an issue with getting rid of all that mature trees and all that filtration and all the good sort of capture we have right now as they're going through construction. The activity, the way that I see the activity taking place is the first thing we would do is build the road that gets us up to Davis Ford Road and also do the Davis Ford Road improvements first. Now there will be material that has to come on to the site and brush and so forth. It will have to be hauled off the site. But the plan would be to have that road, that ramp and the road improvements in place when that's rare to happen. So the road improvements would be the first thing to get done. Thank you. All right. Supervisor Angry? Thank you, Madam Chair. I just really took a quick question. One on the, there's some discussions about that monument sign. I asked you the question about lighting. You said there was no LED for the sign. Is this what that is just the signage identifying the church itself on a exactly right. It's not back lit. There's no light inside the sign itself is lit externally. Okay and then just last question is there was a gentleman who spoke about his property being right next. I'm looking at a slide and I know you showed one that showed more of an aerial with the homes on it. This is fencing I think on that one side my question is, is that fencing? Is that anything for for that homeowner's viewshade? I mean, we got a 30 foot buffer. Are you doing anything around that to try to help out that homeowner with any fence thing or anything different over there. No, we've not provided fencing, giving a long here in this area here. Yeah, that's it. That's the home right here, right? That's it. Yeah. Okay. Well, we've done it to put a fence in here, see the long here. That's just to catch the light as we drive onto the property. the light doesn't hit his house, it just hits the fence there. So that is a fence right there. That's what it looks like. Is there another house on the other side? Right? Yes. Over here. That's kind of far out. It's way over here. Okay. All right. Thanks. I just have a quick question for Mr. Venegas. One of the speakers brought up that this project had eight revisions over five years. Sitting up here we know we have a lot of projects that have had multiple revisions. I just want you to speak for a second just mostly for the public understand. That's not unusual isn't I mean like we have had projects that have had multiple. We've had projects that have had 17. Unfortunately one of them might be coming back. Yes. So we do. We try we we average about three to four submissions, but there are times when you know it's a case where you know you have to continue to negotiate with the applicant or there's additional considerations, like in this case with some of the environmental issues, we had to work more with the applicant to get it to where everyone felt comfortable with it. And so that this would be some five to six would normally be for an SUP, this magnitude. And how willing was the applicant to work with you? So they were very willing to work with staff. Again, we've had three case planners that handled this case since 2019 until here today. So they've been willing to review and see if they could address our concerns and our conditions. And to this point, they've addressed everything that we've asked for or the review agencies have asked for. All right, thank you very much. Does anyone else have any questions for staff? I see you're still in there, angry. I assume I know my system's been a little delayed. So I don't see, all right, you're out, you're out. So we have an open motion that has been properly seconded. Did you have a question, sir? Was it weird for staff or are you ready for discussion? All right, everyone line up for discussion. Supervisor, we're? First up, I'm going to apologize. My sinuses are killing me. It's not that I'm angry or anything. Um, this time anyway. About six hours ago, I walked in here with a number of concerns and I'll be quite honest with you. My concerns are deep. Number of people have mentioned look at the data and that's pretty much what I do. I look at the data and unfortunately as with many cases that come to us, the data changes between the time that people visit our office or they go to the planning commission and they arrive here. And tonight I've heard any number of different numbers with respect to the congregation in terms of size. Little over 100 and some, 200 and some, two services, which means 400. And the numbers keep getting scaled up, changed back, and it's come from both the applicant and the applicant's council. So you'll excuse me if I had a little skeptical of the numbers that I'm hearing. And as a result of that, I'm a little skeptical of the numbers that were provided for the engineering services. If the numbers keep changing and we've even got now a condition to limit the number of services to two, if I recall correctly when an applicant was in my office last week, there wasn't even the consideration of a second service, it was one service, so that's changed. With respect to the condition, yes, it's voluntarily offered by the applicant, I don't know, I'll leave the legal scholar at the end to determine this, but I'm not sure we can even enforce that even if we wanted to. And then there's also the issue of the congregation, which brings us to the alternative septic. I already mentioned my issues with it. And we've been told, listen to the applicants experts. Well, if they weren't given the proper number of potential users of the septic system, or the potential number of services, because when this was first brought to me, it was one service on Sunday, one service on Wednesday night, one service on Thursday night, and now it's potentially multiple services on Sundays, services every night for 20, 30 days. I mean, that dramatically changes the calculations for any number of things, not just the, not just the septic. You know, just a sort of parallel to this was I believe the St. Catherine Drexel years ago where the same argument came up with respect to use of well and septic. I think there's still a septic, but now we're going to, to sewer when they swore they weren't gonna do it. So things change over time. And then we get to the steep slope issue. And my, Mr. Schultz, you quite frankly, you've made my concerns even greater. Had an issue at first with the steep slope in the erudable soils at the bottom of the parcel. Now that I know that they drain into a stream and that you're going to be using an existing swale with point discharge, I'm even more concerned. I've got more questions now and more concerns now when I walked in here six hours ago. Somebody's mentioned Orpa. I'm also concerned what this means to future applications that are in the Orpa, not just on Davis Ford but in other other sections of the county. And then there's traffic issues. Again, if the numbers change, traffic numbers change. The traffic measures or improvements change. And since the information and belief we haven't had a traffic review by VDOC in two years, there's been a lot changing in two years with VDOC. We have found that out the hard way on the board. In fact, I found out about it very hard way two weeks ago. So I'm not convinced that what they approved two years ago still holds true today. Now I will argue on your behalf of this past as that they granted a ministerial approval and they need to live up to it, but I don't know how much sway that's going to have. Well, I'm going to short of it. I can say, I've got more questions now and more concerns than when I walked in. And I feel like, you know, the goalposts have been moved with respect to impacts. So I'm afraid that given all those concerns and those changing numbers, I, I, I, men fear I just can't support just can't support this tonight. Not in this format. All right, thank you. Your time was up. Is there anyone else who wanted to speak? Supervisor Boate? Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. First, I wanted to say thank you for everyone who came out tonight on both sides of this. I wanted to thank Pastor Arthur and his congregation for coming to my office five years ago before COVID happened. Remember you met with me in my office, I must say maybe the second or third week I was in office officially. So I remember that conversation. We know that I told you I had a tough time ahead of you and I'm going to say some things that I'm sure that people on both sides will be a little upset with that before, but I want to remind folks sort of where the score stands. It's not my job as superbrows to just tell people in the come of my office. No, get out of here, get out of my site, shut it down. That's what some people have asked me to do. It's also not my job to unfurl the red carpet and rubber stamp things just because everyone else has to resign off on it. It's my job to scrutinize and to protect my constituents the best of my ability. But it's also my job to work with applicants as much as I can. So if we get to a point that even if I vote against it and it passes, we have the most mitigated project possible that I can say I did my best job to protect the residents of my district. That's where we are with this. I had concerns with the project from the beginning. We worked through a lot of the things I had concerns about. Really loved the fact that stack up proactive with some of the things. Reach out to the health department, what have you. I still have some concerns about certain touch points and time stamps of those reviews because I know that the first approval from the health department came before some of the things around the kitchen where even work through, which gives me pause. No, they signed off before some things were really set in stone before we got here, which to me undermines some of the good feelings I would have had about that otherwise. Overall, this applicant has done a lot to mitigate their impacts. I think everyone in here can acknowledge that. Now, everyone's going to disagree on if it's enough, right? Because ultimately, a lot of folks that have spoke tonight that are against this project will tell you it's not enough because ultimately they feel in their heart of hearts with where they sit and what they've seen on their road for the last 20, 30 years or even just two years in some cases. If you put anything here other than a you know a three-bedroom house, it's going to be too much to add to this because, that's what this area is occasioned around. That's what the road supports. That's why it's still a two lane road in the comp plan. That's why we haven't done anything to blow up in this road. And as far as I'm sitting here, we never will. At the same time though, we also know that we're gonna have constrained sites in Mid-C County. Supervisor Vagan, I have that luxurious pleasure of having Big County where we have lots of our little slivers to giant parcels of land and everything in between. We have constrained sites. We have sites that where there's no ER through them like this, where there is the whole sites bisected by perennial streams and things like that. It's just the nature of this miraculous thing that is called Mid-County in our county. That said though, I have to look at the facts I have but also the information that I got from the public and what I've been able to do with my own research. I trust our experts. As was said before, there is information that I have that I've researched that I've been given both through my own research and by folks who who have looked at this that I have our experts. But as was said before, there is information that I have that I've researched that I've been given, both through my own research and by folks who have looked at this, that I have to consider alongside this. Again, there are special events that I know that with your congregation how you guys are doing in Springfield, it's rocking, right? Great events that you guys do, sometimes all month long at the beginning and the middle parts of the year. Unfortunately, that won't work nearly as well on a site like this in comparison to Springfield. There are all sorts of different things that you all that's part of your free exercise that you are able to commit to to your existing congregation that again won't work nearly as well on a secluded semi-rule road that's two lanes to it and has these small lot singles all around it. I just feel like by picking this site you're depriving yourself from leading up to your full potential as a congregation. One of my constituents said that earlier and so I have to look at what the impacts are if you try to live up to that full potential. And my concern is there's going to be issues with that septic system. There's going to be issues with runoff, there's going to be a lot of issues going downstream literally into people's front yards and their wells and to be a cataclysm in the making because we know whether patterns are getting worse, we know septic systems many cases do eventually fail and we know that when that happens and it's happened in this County several times already Everyone has already had the damage done. We'd look at around and find solutions to it Do you want your second traction time? All right, I you. And I don't want to support a project knowing that we're setting up a congregation that several of my constituents said it. We love your congregation. We want you to come to Princeton County. Heck, I would want you to come to the Aquaman District. But this site to live up to your full potential, it just doesn't align. In my view, and my biggest concern, like I said, is that something happens with that septic system or something happens with the soils or something blows out that you can't foresee right now because you are looking at the horizon and God's vision for you. And we end up having to deal with it on the outflow of that, on the other side of that. And I would hate for you all and frankly I would even more hate for all the residents that live all around you to have to link arms with you, to deal with a mess that we could have avoided by stopping this here and helping you find another site. So for that reason, I can't support this. And I'll be voting no. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. I said it wasn't really going to say anything but I have to. I'm sorry. I know it's late but I have to say this and I'll say it quickly. I see this as, this is a hard decision as I said earlier. But I see this as an opportunity, an opportunity for change, opportunity for communication, opportunity for growth in this section of our county. What I mean by that is right now where I live, I live in a house where the president of the Housing Association before me did not want the church that's in back of me to be built. I attend that church. That church is called First Mom's Zion Baptist Church and I know you all know where that is. That church is a church that serves the entire community in terms of food, in terms of programs, in terms of everything. Now, that church was built in a place that was not conducive in 1992 to be built, but now it serves the community. Now, what am I saying to the residents and what am I saying to the church? I'm saying that this is an opportunity for y'all to come together and talk about this because I understand having your home and not wanting certain things around it. I get that 100%. But two things happened where I lived. One, my house was built in Forest Park and two, my church was not wanted. So I just want that to resonate for a minute. And I want to say that don't miss the opportunity, because prison union county is still a great place to live. As an example of those young people that stood in the back and talked about how they're in college, and they're still in college trying to get their education, but they want to come back here. They want to come back here and live in the community where their parents are. Or think about your children, your children that have gone away and didn't come back, but they always know that this is home. So I just want you to have, just to think about that for a minute, have it resonate or I think about the wonderful lady that says she lives in Mr. Vanderpool's house. I know who you are. It's a wonderful house. It's a wonderful house. And so don't lose that as Prince William County. Don't lose that as Prince William County. Now a wonderful person in my life that I replaced in my seat that is now my friend. Tome, Andrea, and I say this, tongue and cheek, don't mess with the churches, because you wanna go to heaven, okay? I do wanna go to heaven, but I also wanna serve this community, and I wanna be a catalyst of change in this community, with people that may not look like me, may not serve like me, but we can all serve each other. And so that's my sermon and that's my prayer. And so I am going to be supporting the church. And I've received your emails and your text messages. And I respect that. But I'm asking that you respect what I'm saying right now. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Franklin. Yes, thank you. Just want to thank everyone for coming out on both sides of this issue. Very enthusiastic discussions over the past several weeks. So I just want to thank everyone. I am going to be supporting this for a few reasons. As we've heard from staff, this application has gone through several iterations. And where we are now is with several things that address a lot of the community's concern, reducing the building size, having the architecture blend with the community. The health department has approved permits for the drainfield. Underground storm water system, the installation of a turnling to mitigate against traffic. Even when we talk about police on site to help with some of the Sunday traffic, quite frankly, that's pretty standard for a lot of churches already. The retaining wall, the fencing and so you know the church and the county have been working really hard I think to address a lot of those concerns and as mentioned no application is ever perfect. If there were I would be actually concerned but I will tell you that Supervisor Bailey mentioned, I actually think that this is an opportunity for the community, as well as the church to hopefully build a relationship. And I think it's one where the community should hold the church accountable and stop in and introduce yourselves and get involved and make sure that they're doing what they have agreed to and then also for the church and making sure that they're providing those services to the community as well as I know you want to and you will. And also making sure that everyone is being good actors and being good neighbors and community members. It's easy to say no. That's the easy way out but when you you work on something and make these type of revisions that we've seen, I think is worth the shot. So I want to thank everyone for coming out and expressing their opinions. Not everyone's going to be happy. The difficult part of what we have to do is we set our examples one way and we agree with one thing and it always ticks on one off on the other side So we never actually win But I just want to say that this is an opportunity for everybody to come together And build one community and not have any type of animosity going into Going into this discussion. So hopefully I have no idea if this is going to pass or not, but that will be my encouragement if it does. So thank you. Thank you. Now, civil rights are gritty. You're in your out. Do you have anything you want to say if not, when it go to Vega? Yeah. This is again, thank you everyone who came out tonight. I know it's late and thank you for your commitment to our community. You know, I am a pastor. I have pastor churches. I have served as a youth minister. I have been in churches in Alaska and Louisiana and I've been on the mission field. So I love what you guys are doing. I love your passion for Jesus Christ. I love your passion for each other. Your love. Someone said, love God, love others. That's on my ring right here that I made myself. To remind myself that every day that that's what I have to do. I have to love God and I have to love others. This is the land use case. And so we have to evaluate this based upon the set of circumstances that we have before us. But I will tell you, if I were a pastor of a church and I were handed a church on this site and was told, you can't do this, you can't do that, you can only do this there. I'd be like, who in the world agreed to this? I'm going to be looking at these conditions and I'm saying, man, this is infringing upon the free exercise of religion, which has me very concerned that we may be having a set of documents here that are not defensible And so I just I'm concerned that we've out at you know, we're trying to Deal with the land as it is and we're creating all these Conditions and cert sacrifices and limitations to make this fit on dirt. And so for me, I'm just like, what are we really giving up here in terms of the cause of Christ? And so I'm struggling with this one because I think we've taken it way too far. And I still don't think we've mitigated fully the downstream impacts. I do care about the environment. We have to be good stewards of the things that God has blessed us with. And right now, salinity is a major problem in the Ocaquan. It affects our drinking water. P-fast is a major problem. We just had the soil and water over the Prince William water come in here and say if the land is more than 3%, in perviel, then that's going to lead to increase in salinity. And that's what we have going on here. We are increasing the impervious surfaces very close to the aquaquine. And what do we parking lots in the winter time We put salt on them and here we are throwing more salt into the problem and we don't have a solution to our drinking water And that's why the orpa was created was to protect our drinking water and so Again, I'm struggling with this I appreciate everything that everyone's has had to say tonight I do agree the community's got to come together regardless of what happens here tonight you got to come together thank you Madam Chair. Supervisor Vega then I will say something before we vote. Thank you Madam Chair. First off thank you you to the church, thank you to members of the community, and thank you to staff and to the representation on behalf of the applicant. You all on all sides of the issue have been a great in terms of your advocacy, trying to have your voice heard, and I appreciate that. I want to take my comments in a different direction because I think that education is important. And oftentimes we fail to understand the process that we are looking at here right now. And as a district supervisor, it's my responsibility to view every land use application and judge it on its own merit. Every application has its challenges, but my job is to mitigate those challenges, to find a solution to those challenges, because I simply cannot vote no on something because I personally don't like it, and I simply cannot vote yes on something, simply because staff is telling me to vote yes on it. I am a person that bases her decisions on the facts. I'm a law enforcement officer, so I love evidence. The more evidence I have, the merrier. I ask questions. One of the main reasons why I think to Alex and the team was because I've asked dozens of questions to ensure that I have the proper information. As members of the community emailed us with their concerns, I asked those questions to county staff too. And of the applicant because it's important, information is important. Educating ourselves on this process is important. And oftentimes, we get caught up in this way of thinking where because my neighbor told me this, it must be true or because somebody in the church said this, it must be true and I am left as a district supervisor and one member of this board composed of eight individuals because the county attorney and the county executive cannot vote. I am left with the task of blocking off all the noise and looking at what's been presented before me. Three weeks ago, I had a lot of concerns. We had a conversation as a team and this is a very fluid process. We got dozens of emails of people demanding to know how the supervisor was going to vote and I am never going to tell anybody how I'm going to vote until the day of. Because out of respect, I owe it to each and every single one of you to listen to you and to listen to my colleagues and what else might transpire. And so I never once indicated how I was going to vote. But I did have concerns and those concerns even as early as today with the three letters that we received, a lot of the concerns that I had have been put to ease. This project is not in my district, but I make it a priority to go into the district to see it for myself. I walked the property. I was there with Ron, I was there with the pastor, and I saw it for myself because it's important to do that. So at the end of the day, I am going to make my decision based on the facts, the evidence that has been presented. But I want to echo what my colleagues have stated up here. We are one Prince William County. We are one community. I don't believe that a single soul that came here today to speak for or against is about individual or has ill intentions towards anyone. We're passionate about what we believe in, and that's okay, that's your right. And I encourage you to continue to be passionate, to continue to engage your local government because that's the beauty of this country, where we can voice our opinions, maybe not agree, But at the end of the day, we come together. And so I want to thank you all for coming here. I want to thank you all for your emails. where we can voice our opinions, maybe not agree, but at the end of the day, we come together. And so I wanna thank you all for coming here. I wanna thank you all for your emails, for your phone calls, because our phones were ringing off the hook yesterday, and today, I heard you loud and clear, but I wanted to give you a different side of the coin, if you will, Madam Chair, as to how as supervisors, or rather I don't wanna speak for anybody else, but how I base my decisions when it comes to a land use matter. So thank you everyone and Madam Chair. Thank you. as to how as supervisors or rather I don't want to speak for anybody else, but how I base my decisions when it comes to a land use matter. So thank you everyone and Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity. Supervisor Avery and then me. Yeah, I'll be brief. I didn't plan on speaking, but I'm going to definitely echo everything that Supervisor Vega just said. You know, at the end of the day, we have a decision to make, and there are no winners here. Regardless of how we make our decision, someone's gonna like it, someone else is not gonna like it. The issue becomes the facts, and I will tell you that you've just heard earlier about our planning office and our planning director and what they do and how good they are. You just heard earlier about how we have eight people assigned as our planning commissioners that have a job to do, very independent of us. They don't make decisions that we want. They make decisions that they need to make at the applications when they see it. Then it comes to us. This doesn't happen here all week, all month. I've I've known about this project. I've watched this project. I've talked to the applicants. I definitely receive all your emails. I even get in some tech because I know a few of you and your phone calls. And so all of that matters to exactly what supervisor Vega just said. And finding out the right answers. One thing I cannot do folks is just simply say no. So I have to make sure the issue is mitigating concerns and making sure with the application of a land use that has clearly been vetted through two channels. What else can we do? And I need to hear something different tonight that maybe we could add to it that might have been missed So I just want to simply say the process of this It's a very delicate process and it's not just taken lightly and it's not something that as I hear people say Oh, well, they've got money and they can do this or you're in their pockets or whatever that is none of that folks I mean it this is not an easy job and I will tell you, as long as I'm thorough in the process, I feel good about my decision. I just want to let you know that because into the day, this is not our first time going through a process like this, but we have to make a decision. And one thing I don't believe in is sending things down to a later day and bringing it back, Because one thing's going to happen. When we get to that again, it's going to be the same thing. We still got to make a decision. So thank you all for being here. Listen to you all. Heard you loud and clear the entire process. And so yeah, I'm ready. Thanks, Madam Chair. All right. Thank you all. And again, thank you, everyone, who has stayed here. Someone asked a question, what is the point of a public hearing if you are not hearing us? I want to say that I've heard all of you. I hear you. But I really want to speak to the residents, to the fear and the concern that I've heard. You have a lot of fear about your community changing. You have a lot of fear about the environmental impacts about transportation. I hear you and I hear that fear. I grew up in Rosello, Illinois, which is a part of unincorporated Cook County, in Illinois. I was right on the border of Cook County and DuPage County. I lived in a semi-roll area. We only had one acre, but my neighbors think that at five acres next to us, they had a horse. There was also a horse farmer, across the street from me. This was many years ago, so I don't remember if I was high school, junior high, long, long, long, long, long time ago, over 30 years. But there was a church that came to my block. It was St. Mary's, a civilian church. It's Eastern Orthodox. And the road that I lived on Larson Lane is not Davis Ford Road. It's really a residential street. I remember neighbors had concern about the church. But the church came. And my neighborhood, I actually had a chance to go there. I hadn't been there for so long because my parents left the area, but I went there in August and I looked around what used to be my house and my neighbor's houses. There you has changed. Not because of the church, not in spite of the church, but despite the church. The area grew and changed. The houses that are there are quite expensive. Because again, I've heard of fears also when people are talking about their property values, but it's going to happen there. I understand the fear. I hope that some of the facts will alleviate the fear. But it does not seem like that is true. And I do want to say to the pastor, you are a shepherd. You are a shepherd. But your flock is larger than your congregation. It is the community. And I am asking you to make sure that you are reaching out to the community. I know it is hard. I know that from what you've heard tonight, there are a lot of people who don't want a church in their neighborhood, in their backyard. But I'm going to ask you to look at the entire community as your congregation. I know you will be a good neighbor, but go above and beyond. Go above and beyond. Since everyone's kind of whole not everyone, because number of folks are quoting scripture. I have to say, the thing in the Bible, the one quote that most stands out to me, is 1 Corinthians 1614. Let all that you do be done in love. Let all that you do be done in love. And so with that, Reverend, I ask you to please lead the community. Please be the bridge. There is a lot of fear in the community where you would like to locate your church. Please be the bridge and understand for the people in the community the fear is real. The fear of the unknown is real. So I'm asking you to please, it's not that your congregation, your congregation isn't your only flock. It is the community. I will be supporting this, and this is a hard decision. I haven't been through this before, I ain't going to lie. This is the toughest vote I've had to make. This is the toughest decision I've had to see. Oversee. You know, and for the residents, again, I hear you. I understand your fear. And I hope that your worst fears do not come to pass. We do not know what the future holds. We do not know what the future holds. And perhaps the church may actually be a blessing for your community. Let's be open. Let's be open to what the future holds. And so with that, I don't know if you were clear from Q or not supervisor angry. I don't know if you had anything else you're clearing yourself from Q. Let's go ahead. Let's go ahead and take our vote. Motion passes 5 to 3 supervisors. Voting, we're and Gordy voting. Nay. All right, and thank you very much to everyone who has come out. We are I'm going to give everyone a chance who wants to leave a moment to exit. Thank you. You don't need to follow who you need to find. Okay. I'm going to ask you to extend it. Okay. All right folks, that's you exit. I'm going to ask you to extend it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. All right folks, as you exit, I please ask that you show some decorum. Yeah, he does. Please ask that you show some decorum. Yeah, he does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah leaving for the night I ask that you please sleep. Yeah, cause all the folks see about there. Yeah. And now we got a build in this map. Please, please. A little fall asleep out there. And now we got a building spot. I thought I already had a parking lot. But yeah, wait. I'm not here in front of you. I'm not here in front of you. I know this was a I am doing for you. I'm sorry. I don't want to be a dentist. I don't want to be a dentist. I don't want to be a dentist. I don't want to be a dentist. I don't want to be a dentist. All right. Thank you very much. We have, we are moving on to agenda item number 16. And that is public comment time. And that is for people who want to speak about something that is not on the agenda. We have one person who has signed up one whole person. I am Johnson. You stayed? Wow. You know how this works at your day where you're generally resolved. You get three minutes. Oh, I like this. This is fun. And look, and I'm going to try to see, I'm aging myself. myself. Let me make sure I can read my phone. I'm so sorry. This font is so small. Okay. Let's do this. This is hilarious. All right. Good morning. My name is Aene Johnson. I am from the Woodbridge District and I continue to stand today as an advocate and reminderors and individuals within Prince William County who would like for you to forget about a child affectionately known as Bumpy. I stand before you today on behalf of my family and countless others who've endured systematic injustice. Families who may have not had the time, the resources or the platform to advocate for themselves. Today I am here to demand truth. That's a different tone there. Demand truth, accountability, and decisive action. For too long, lies, landers, and even fraud have prevailed in the interim. But I want to remind you, truth always comes to light. And I do appreciate Mr. Gordy there when you were speaking about your faith because it's never about me getting here in front of the microphone for three minutes talking about myself. I always have to recognize my faith in God. Luke 8, 1 verse 7, pardon me, for nothing is secret that thou shall not be made manifest, neither anything hid that shall not be known and come abroad. I am here to tell you and will continue. No matter how long it takes, the truth will prevail. Lies may seem victorious at the time, which they have for my family for almost three years we've been on this journey. But they will crumble under the weight of accountability. That is why, again, I am here to demand accountability. My family has been subjected to profound injustice, but this is bigger than us. It's always been bigger than us. This is about foster children who are overlooked and families who are misrepresented. People who are treated as liabilities, Mr. Shorter, instead of treated as assets. We say the same thing, we are not a liability, Mr. Shorter. We are not a liability. Families like ours need to be valued because we are part of this community. I'm calling on each of you, and this is no longer just a private meeting that we're gonna have with Mr. Shorter and select members of the Department of Social Services because that didn't work. We didn't receive transparency then. I'm calling on each of you the county executive Mr. Shorter, the Board of County Supervisors, the county chair, the county attorney, we would love to have you there. We'll pick our best attorney as well, to meet with my family, to hear the truth directly from us, to go over emails, to go over redacted documents. You have the authority and responsibility to conduct a thorough investigation, an impartial investigation That is taken place and look over the information that will be presented You don't have to be dismissive you don't have to be naive Do not allow misinformation from employees with the Prince William County Department of Social Services to blind you to the truth Accountability starts with leadership and we demand action. It starts with you, Mr. Shorter. The time for excuses is over. The time for action is now. We have the power. And you have the power to ensure that justice and transparency has been served. I'm asking you to exercise your power with integrity. This is not about our family. It is about a systematic change and it starts here with you. Thank you. Thank you so very much. I just want to... I'm sorry. Madam Chair. Or did you have a comment? No. No, so hold on. I know what you want to do. I just want to verify. Do we have anyone? Can you keep him in line Rebecca? Well I know that's a lot. Has her pay. We need her. All right. Do we have anyone online? We don't know hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on That we say provisor angry has a quick update. Yeah, just just real quick This afternoon about 430 between 4 and 430 we had an army ride bus Completely burn up actually on the express lane coming stop good news is it was a dead head bus with no passengers, a driver is okay, but we did lose the bus. It was a tire that blew and apparently it got caught up in the axle, caused that rubber friction, caught fire. He saw the smoke pulled over, got out, but the flames took over the bus before the fire and rescue could get there. So we did lose the bus, but no one was injured. So this one I'm going to make the board aware of that situation. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right. All right. Let's go ahead and call it a day. Wow, wow, wow. Woo. All right, second. All right, second. I'm going to get it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Alex. Thank you Alex. You need hazard pay. You and Rebecca. Thank you.