April 15th 2025. Please come to order. Please silence your cell phones. I'm sure I did that. Good morning, Charlie. Good morning. Miss Huffman, please call the roll. Diana Poul here. David McKenna. Here. Jesse Romero. Here. Charles Tagman. Here. John Bukin. Here. Good morning everybody. Our first is the consent agenda. Is there a motion to approve the minutes from last March 18, 2025 meeting? So approved. I'm in the second. Second. Okay. So approved. Presentations? Any at this time? I don't think so. I need this time. I don't think so. So we'll move on to public participation. And we've got a wonderful group out there today. Thank you all for coming. Packed house. Very orderly. You can't even let that find me though. Yes, please go say something out there. You've got three minutes. Now, obviously, it doesn't seem like there or anybody that ventured out this early in the morning, so we'll move on to old business. Is there any old business to discuss? Yes, there is. So the first on our agenda is the Southeast Volusia Chamber of Commerce is any intercity tour to Abacoa and Alton update and Samantha you want to give any thoughts on that I mean I actually attended I know you were I was going to defer to you because I could not go I had a meeting that day and I did not I was not able to attend yeah I'll give you a sense you know we met About 830 took a bus down to the Jupiter area to two developments that are representative of what the Daring Park Development Company, which is the new name for the joint venture between Kotler, Colter and the Miami Corp. We two toured two neighborhoods, one that was about 20 years old, Abukoa. You know, it was a very nice facility, great floor and fauna tree canopy and the developer spent some time talking about how that will look like in Daring Park and wide roads or wide sidewalks with big legacy trees. So it's going to have a nice feel. It's going to not be like the hot side of the sun out there. And a lot of the type of houses they built, they have many different types, but a lot of the type of houses they built, you know, they have many different types, but a lot of it was traditional land, traditional neighborhood development, I believe they called it, and which is, you know, front porches, walking streets, there's an alley for garages and trash and all of that. So it gives kind of that Mayberry Sea Green celebration view. The thing I thought was interesting, that is opportunity for ours is they had the Max Planck Institute and he's a former physicist that believed the father of modern day physics. And they had an FAU campus and they had a Scripps Institute. So they had a lot of things that were a draw from the education perspective. But it's also spring training facilities for two major baseball,. Louis. Yeah, Carl. I'm not a me. Marlins, yeah. So, you know, a real vibrant community didn't look like, you know, strip malls and strip centers. You know, it had a town center. I was impressed if they build that. Now it had grown over 20 years. And, you know, what was interesting too is how they handled stormwater because I know that's a concern for many people and they keep all the water on the facility. They integrated parks that were water storage facilities if flooding did happen and the developer and the landowner, the joint venture, whatever, you know, see that as a model, but they've learned some things in 20 years, right? So then they took us over to Alton, which is across the street, and that's about six years. It used to be, you know, a strawberry you picked far, I believe, and different look, different look, more modern, more like you would see. Just more modern. The other was more traditional Florida look. And kind of amazing how quickly that's broken up. And nice facilities, a million dollar houses only. None of these areas are cheap, so you didn't really see, you know, affordable housing in the area. I think that's gonna be the challenge that, you know, for Deering Park, and I think Deering Park down in Edgewater has maybe not a classical affordable housing, but, you know, they have different price points. And there was a groundbreaking there on Friday after. So a few other things. And we toured a couple commercial sites, the large industrial sites that were in the area and saw how they hide those, they make them look better so they don't look like, you know, 1980s commercial sprawl. And, you know, I enjoyed the tour, you know, learned a lot, got to know some of the players in this a little bit better. I think that, you know, one thing I take away is, the Miami Corp and let's say the Dearing Family, they've owned the land for 100 years of the first 59,000 acre track, I think was purchased April 1st of 2025, or 1925, and they have a long-term view. They are going, be having, be above and beyond what you could do just to make a profit. I mean, the way they're landscaping, the way they're constructing, the desire there is to create a legacy project for them, self that represents their family well. So I think that's interesting. Now, you know, the proof's always in the pudding with this stuff. And as my friend Jesse will tell me, it's the what's in the PUD. One thing I did learn though, that, you know, when I talk to commercial real estate developers, not many people build half a million square feet of spec property. And that question I pointedly asked these guys and that's they this will have a CO so they'll build out some facility and you know clearly they have to you know get tenants quickly but you know the land is almost free for them so you know it's not not necessarily the same dynamic. I believe they're pretty wealthy family. So I think that's a big commitment, and they're trying to do what's right. And one thing from a Deering Park perspective, and then I'll pause in a second, is there's a workshop this Thursday. And if we could flesh out what we feel like as a body to either make a recommendation to support or not or to table it, but I do plan personally to speak on behalf of the development with sharing a little bit of what I just shared but but in a more concise three minute fashion. So, I'll pause thoughts. Yes. I have a couple of thoughts. I was not aware that Abaco, which I've been to, Abaco before, my sister actually lives to the west side of Abaco. And that area started like 20 years ago, been there since 1993, I believe, once you moved there. Nothing was there. But the question becomes, what came first? The chicken of the egg. What did that area have before it became Abaco? They said it was a sleepy 5,000-person town. Right. It's kind of a fishing area. It area farming area however they did have the Cardinal sprain training they did have the FAU campus so they're in the scripts they really had facilities already yes they have facilities already there so they will have an anchor as you might say to build on to there the next question becomes, is the city, what did they put into the PUD to make it so beautiful? Was it in the PUD, the white, which in the roads, roads of white, for example, I've been there, didn't get lost in it easily. Huge roads, roundabouts, beautiful. Like you said, it is beautiful in there. And they all be built the same way, and now the abacus almost filled up. It's autumn to the north of Abacus or to the south. I think it's to the south. I know where it's at. I know where it's at. I know where it's at. It's also been going on for like you said about six years since then. I know it's at over there. So then again also on the corner of 95 and down a Ross road is Carrier. Just put up a new headquarters. True. All right. Global headquarters. True. All right. Global headquarters of Carrier. Yes, it used to be a United Technology at one time. So they moved that over there and they came in. We did one of those here. So they did have a plethora of anchors that draw from to build this on here. As of right now, we't have that. I mean, again, I'm not against developing. I'm just doing a contrasting. Well, that is the challenge is how do we get, a major anchor facility here. And there is effort underway to bring the space community and I'm involved in a fair amount of this. And everybody's doing this and that. In my mind, it needs to be a coordinated effort because I think there's an opportunity right now with what's going on that, and I'll be honest. I think the, or not honest, I'm always honest, but I think there's an opportunity to provide incentives from the land owner to bring, you know, they're giving land to the utilities, they're giving land to a school, you know, maybe there's an opportunity to build a space center out there and we're going to be pushing that because there does need to be something that an anchor and something that provides a vision for how we actually get to economic development because it's catch as catch can right now because nothing exists and there's going to be competitive pressure from other areas. I mean they're building 8 million square feet I think down in Edgewater aren't they? So that was kind of noted, hey, you guys got to get on this or we'll locate all that down there. Yeah, 1 million square feet of spec space and the 83 acres there in Parktown and they had proof of the first three buildings. So each building is over 100,000 square feet. So Parktown, the Massey development, that is not that. No, park town is the city's industrial park. Yeah. Oh, I thought that was Massey property at one time. No, there was several property owners there. Oh, OK. Is that back like by Pullman Road? Yes. Yes. Where every lady is that? Park town. There's a lot of people here. And also ASCMI, something like that. Matthews. Comments from you, gentlemen? Yeah, I certainly agree that, I mean, I watched the development on our Kusie Road South of the airport in Orlando. And that's the Islesworth, the guy that owns, and he put the Med School, a college, and a few other things in there and said, now the people can come. And the developer at the village did the same thing. If he felt something was necessary, he'd build a building, you'd get five years free, and then the people would come. And I would hope that the Deering family, but what, I don't know how they run it down in, down in our Kousi, but in the villages, the developer never sells the land. So he'll own that forever and ever. And then just rents the, you know, leases the building on it. So there's nine publics, but he owns every square inch of land that the publics are on. And generally speaking, they don't own their properties anyway. But no, you've got to lead. You can't allow it to follow. And it sounds like they've got the right idea. But it's hard to do spec anyway, because people have such different needs. So you put up the spec building and it's not tall enough for it. It doesn't have enough of a strength to handle lifts. You know, I mean, so you got to find somebody who wants to occupy. Hey, Samantha, is there a height limits out there? Or is that a 75? How much? 77 feet right now. What's that? Seven stories? Six stories. Yeah. That's what I read. David. But then you get your thoughts? Just to answer your question, John. As far as right now anything can be changed. Yeah. So you ask for an, just ask people at the Asian Bay, they get an amendment. It comes through here, but when they get 140 feet tall, okay, there you go. So unless you get big commissioners. Yeah, but there's things in our comp plan that limit this as well, but you can't give a variance too. So we're not going to have a sky scraper out there anytime soon. But I mean at one time city leadership did want to attract class A office buildings, like company headquarters and things like that. And those would be the kinds of buildings that would be expected if you're going to try to attract a building by. So I mean really those are things to look at that we as a force, need to make those recommendations. If that's what we truly want to try to attract, like that anchor, that one special something that's here that builds and others will come as those third and fourth tier support companies. I would think a class A office building would be part of the spec space that they build because there's nothing like that exists here and if you're a corporate headquarters or even a major satellite or office you'd want something like that. And for manufacturing types of spec buildings it's It's very easy for us to ask team Valusia, what are the specifications that you most frequently get asked to provide? What are the door heights and what are the structural, are they running robotics, are they running lifts and things like you talk about cranes and internally, you know, like the word in the building and edgewater, I used to work. When I used to work for a Kisters K-Od. But those things are, they have that data, because they get asked all the time. So there's actually a lot of concerted effort with team, us working and partnering with team Balucia and the county and Southeast Solution manufacturing and technology coalition. Like we're all working together on the same thing and the same goals of what is our little piece and how do we help each other get there. And I see that. I think there needs to be maybe some focus in coordinating effort. Because I do see lots of people doing around the same thing, but are we all pushing and coordinating? There's a lot of coordination and concerted effort that goes for that, but you also, you know, you're at the whim of the market, the free market, so just because it's something that we're all working towards, but then you kind of get these offshoots and these off industries or off businesses that kind of we end up with as well. And it's not bad, it's just that you kind of, you know, you have to focus on that for a little while and then you kind of go back to, well, we're all focusing on together and, you know, we have new leadership at the helm of the CEO business alliance And but I think that's great. Is Ernie a fish or is that? Yeah, he's official. I think Kent is still there and kind of they're going to be training. Yeah, Ernie was on the. Yeah, he's great. He's great. And he's always been very supportive of all of our efforts that we have been working on together as a team as the county wide. Looks like a good guy. But we haven't felt the full wrath of COVID and sort of the changing environment because nobody is building high-rise office buildings anymore without a apartment component. They're mixed use. Retail on the first floor, several floors of office, and then condos or apartments up top. You know, a lot of the companies that used to take all that space, the accounting firms are struggling right now at a lot of levels. A lot of the retail space was taken by Walgreens and CVS and banks, and all three of them are closing up retail shops as fast as they can close them up. Macy's is on its way out. I mean, and so it's just, it's a different environment. And my son got hired with a computer company in Boston, and he had to commit to being in Boston for two years and then they said we have about 80 offices around the world, you can then just pick one and go there. And they just want him in a contained office for the first couple of years to understand the company and what they do and they said said, you know, it'll be, you won't even be in the office all the time. So it's a different model out there nowadays. And so it's a challenge on the other hand, a lot of companies are looking to get out of downtown, you know, the traditional downtown. Parking is expensive, food is expensive. So you find that, you find, try to find that platform that attracts what you want to attract. We do need, I've said that since I started sitting here, is if you want a law firm or a title company or you've got to go to Daytona, there's nothing here in Newspaperna Beach. So, but even if it were a conglomeration of smaller firms, but first class firms, I think an A class office building or two could work. And that's a good location. And of of course we also have to remember that the hospital will be diagonally across the street from Deering Park and that's going to change the whole economic structure of that interchange. But we also learned going through that exercise years ago when Tony was here is that class A office for most of those types of businesses and industries they want to be on the intersection of major highways and at 95 and 44 did not meet their standards for their corporate. Right they want to be up at 4.95 and that's why that will area that's developed. So that's the, you know, the challenge is that we have to be able to understand what the market is looking for and what their needs are, what their specifications are, and whether we need them or not. So that's been the challenge with trying to attract class A type businesses, you know, headquarters. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with being an upper scale bedroom community either. You know, we don't want big extensive manufacturing. I don't think I do. I'm not opposed to Deering Park, but I want it. It won't be the same as the rest of News Mournabeech, but I would hope that it could be in character. It's got to be in the ready. Yeah. They've shown a lot of the elevations and the design features. I don't know if there are any of the packets that we've received, but it looks like a very attractive neighborhood. Obviously the houses aren't built, but they have some very stringent design elements that they have to stick to. If I'm characterizing this, culture might build some of it, but they might sell tracks to other developers that can build different type of housing. They have mixed-use multifamily, single-family, and they'll have price points in a scale. But they have to stick to the design elements. And I don't know if you see that as much in Venetian Bay. Is it the poems that new area? That seems a lot different than for you. Yeah, because it didn't stick to the design. Yeah, that is not supposed to have like common facades and things. I'm not quite sure how they got away with it. But, you know, from a Deering Park perspective, I spoke in favor of Deering Park already at the Planning and Zoning. It was Planning and Zoning, not a mission that I was talking about back last year when they were before the Planning and Zoning Board. And I think Deering Park is a unique opportunity for New Samurna because we're pretty much, that's pretty much the only spot where we could do something of that magnitude, right? But I think everyone in the process, whether that's us, the people doing the building, the city, I think we're all going to have to hold each other accountable and hold people to what's been committed. Make sure that whatever they agreed to and planning and zoning has made it into the AndUD. And if it didn't make it into the PUD, why didn't it make it? Because there was a lot of back and forth in that meeting, a lot of negotiating on what the city and the residents wanted and what during part could do. And they have to make money as well. And then the other challenge I see is when we talk about, especially the commercial part of Deering Park, there's always discussion about this as five years out, this is 10 years out. And my fear is that the space industry in particular, which is, you know, a big industry that we want to attract, is developing and changing so quickly that that five years out and 10 years out, there are gonna be here doing their thing. So, you know, my question is there's something that we could do creatively to attract some of those companies that might not be huge right now, but five, 10 years from now, there'll be a lot bigger, to get them here and get them anchored here, like whether there Some kind of smaller, you know buildings that can be repurposed in the interim so there aren't but As a county are Concerted efforts have been for the third and fourth tier type of businesses and industries we do not have the Infrastructure or the workforce or the area to be able to have space sex here or blue origins. But we can very easily accommodate some of the smaller businesses that make certain components or widgets if you will that will be used to put space transportation and those kinds of things. And maybe they have 10 to 15 maybe 20 employees. Those kinds of businesses we can host and we can accommodate very well in our community. They will provide higher paying jobs, which is what we are set in our goals that we're supposed to be working on. And it checks all the boxes, if you will. So those from the very beginning, and there's a report that was done called the Bryce Report. I don't know if any of you have read that. But it very clearly states that Volucia County as a whole, especially Southeast Volucia, is very well positioned for those third and fourth tier type industry businesses. And so that has been our goal since day one. Is to try to attract some of those businesses. So it's a minute to go figure it out. Yeah, to be pleased. No, David, you can't. So Samantha, you know, put on your hat of why would we come, why would they come to and where would they come right now when you know, put on your hat of why would we come why would they come to New Sumerna and where would they come right now when you know edgewater seems to have you know a lot of momentum on open doors. Hence why we asked Deering Park my am a corporation to please expand further north so that New Sumerna be to be able to have a share in that pie. That's why we made that ask four years ago. You know we can blame Samantha for all of that by the way. She was in that position. You did a great job in Edgewater because they've got a leg up and one thing I'd note is they did have a groundbreaking ceremony last Friday at Dering Park in I think they call it Deering Park North right in the South it's called Deering Park North it's called Deering Park Innovation Center in our- Called Deering Park Center on the Southwest corner in Edgewater and that's where I believe the welcome center is going to go. Yeah so they broke ground on the welcome center and yeah they're I gather dirt out So that's coming soon and what are they permitted for 6800 houses out there and you know, it's in phases Well, Deering Park North is 6600 They haven't even started that yet. So they're starting on Deering Park Center, which is the Southwest corner. And I think they've I think Ryan said they had what, 20, 2,200 of those that are permitted right now that they're reviewing all the plans and everything for. So they're they got their permit to go ahead and start. By the way, the mayor of edgewater attended the inner city tour. He was pretty quiet. Well, it's a couple of thoughts on this. I lived in the Detroit area for almost 20 years. And a couple of things. The fluctuation, potential fluctuation of markets and economy is something that hopefully the developers and the owners are trying to forecast as best that they can because we saw what happened to Venetian Bay when the economy tanked 2008. The original plan for Venetian Bay is not what we see today, as we all know. It was supposed to be more of a self-contained community that could thrive and exist on its own and for reasons that we all know it didn't happen. So hopefully because these folks have owned this land for so long, they're not going to at the first sign of of a hiccup in the economy, so, and another geo-sand comes along and just blows the whole thing on. So that's the first thing. The other thing. I think we have that commitment from the family that that is not. That's part of developing. Well, the Daring Park Development Company is a 50-50 ownership, so they're gonna maintain the land. So the other thing is going back to my comment about living in Michigan. When I moved back in the early 90s, I was blown away by, I moved to Oakland County, which at that time was the 4th or 5th wealthiest county in the United States, which is a total surprise to me. And every time my wife and I were looking for a home with community after neighborhood, after neighborhood, with these beautiful homes back then, $7,800,000 homes, which would be, I got $2 million today, right? And I said to our real estate agent, I said, how many doctors and lawyers could you possibly have in this area? Because that's what I thought equated to people being wealthy and whatever. And she laughed and she said no, no, no, no. These are automotive executives, not manufacturing per se, but tier two, tier three, tier four, the port industries that did very, very well, even though they were miles and miles away from the actual manufacturing center. So when we talk about the secondary markets suppliers, if you will, there is precedent for that to be successful in and around this country. So I love that idea. So this was very purposeful when we kind of got on the bandwagon of asking Deering Park in my incorporation to come further north. Here's the thing. When we had the recession in 2008, in our area for Southeast Volusia, we have a wonderful, great big boat builders. Well, what we learned is from that is because things really tanked and a lot of our communities here in Southeast Volusia and throughout the county and Delton and some others are big bedroom communities. And we had a lot of foreclosures. Edgewater and Delton are some of the hardest hit during the the recession. So we're looking at, okay, well, skillset. We have all these people that work for boat builders. And, but those skills are transferable between boat building, aviation, aerospace, technology and automotive. So we already have the skillset, and that was why we were also in the Bryce Report. It does talk about that. Why are we so well positioned to be able to garner some of that business? Sure. Is because just exactly what you're saying is diversifying and we looked at to during COVID, during the recession, what were the industries that still thrived during those times? Space, aviation, space transportation, commercial transportation, those kinds of industries and those businesses thrived, even during COVID, even during the recession. Well, that was the government spending money. So the whole economy wouldn't totally collapse. But it was also private industry as well with SpaceX and Blue Origin and all the companies that are around there. But they're getting government, they're run by government funds. They are. But they also have other businesses that they're contracting with. No, it's a good model. But it's not only diversification of our tax space, but it's a diversification of our employment and our workforce that we have so that we don't see see such a huge, it just makes us more resilient and quicker to bounce back, or more sustainable, that we don't get hurt as bad as a community. When we do have these crazy things that are going to happen in our economy, as well, you know, what's the next plague that's going to come, you know, through our way with COVID, but those are some of the lessons learned. And so that's why we're all working so hard together to make this happen. And that's why Deering Park Innovation Center is so important to the sustainability of our city. So let me bring up an entirely different point of view. And this comes from having conversations with people that live here in town and especially live on beach side. We're going to have thousands and thousands and thousands of people who are actually moving to this area. We're probably more than that. They're over time. So if you guys remember a couple of weeks ago, we had our major egress, egress road shut down for hours because of one lunatic, right? So that left everybody that had to get out of or over each side the North Cosmetic. That was it. So I just wonder from a really from an emergency health safety standpoint, when we have all these people that now move to the area, and I'm in favor of During Park as well as you guys on it, and they want to go to the beach. They want to go to Newsworthy Beach. There's one of two ways they can get to the beach, right? South Cosway, North Cosway. That's it. There's nothing further south unless they want to go to Kogo. That's it. We have another catastrophe like that could have been so much worse. I was right there just at had a meeting at the CEO of the hospital. And I was literally parked in the very northeast spot of that of that emergency area of the parking lot. And I watched this thing happen and I'm thinking somebody has to have died but they didn't think of. So, in the whole grand scheme of thinking about adding more business, more industry, or homes, more people. The other side of that equation is, okay, how do we accommodate for those people from a leisure standpoint, from a safety standpoint, would there ever ever be a consideration to build another bridge? Sounds like water. Well, they've got to replace the North Cotsway bridge. That doesn't matter. Well, it's not going to help. Yes, it can help, because you'll notice up in Daytona now they're only doing one two-one-way bridges. And part of the theory is for either a hurricane or an accident, they don't have to close both sides. And they can run two-way traffic on the other side. But what you're saying, you're not one row per se. It's two. You can look up between them when you go under in a boat. Right, go. So they don't touch each other. But anyway, but still the volume, because you have to go up canals, I mean, up a flagler. Yes. Because I'm guessing it's, is it an 80, 80, 20, 70, 30 split between the causeways traffic? You know, no, no the traffic count. I don't know the traffic count of top my head. But I say it's at least 70. It's going. Yeah, it goes over the South causeway. It's going. the South Causeway. But I don't know why. We'll never have it tunnel to Daytona Beach. Wasn't there plans to take 10th Street all the way to 95? Maybe that's a bridge down into the southern part of the city. Yeah, there's a tough question. There's been a lot of brainstorming. Nobody and I live out there. A lot of brainstorming. So one of the plans like the Edgewater Economic Development Board had on their plan for a long time was to extend Park Avenue all the way to 95 as well. And I don't mean to do rail. No, you're fine. Oh, it's a valid. It's a valid. Yeah, I had this conversation with someone yesterday. You know, aren't you on that talk? Yeah. What's going to happen when all those people want to go to the beach? Well, let me be crowded. just looking at so as getting ready for Save the City and working on some numbers on the beach. I'm like, well, let me, I mean, it's gonna be crowded. Just looking at those, getting ready for Save of the City and working on some numbers for the mayor. I looked back at the last 20 years of our population trends, right? And from 2020 to 2024, we had 19% increase in population. That's one of them. From COVID. So, and it's not just new summer to each, it's all of the state of Florida. Or just, you know, so I mean, we're gonna have the people here anyway. And would you rather see something that we want and that we're trying to control and manage out there west of 95, or do you want just to happen to us? And that's where you have to look at and decide that you're going to be in support of this because we are controlling and managing what's happening out there rather than just allowing it to happen to us. Well, you know what, as I understand we obviously came at them to do the development. They're probably happy to not do it. If this doesn't get approved, they're long-term owners, and they do make money out there. Now, is it enough? Don't know. But you'd have these little pocket developments that take up all of the green space that aren't a coordinated master plan. Well, you wouldn't have the storm water. Master planning going on, you wouldn't have master plans for your utilities. It would just be a one-off and done with a septic. You know some of my personal opinion is there probably is good development company as we're going to get here. They're not GOSM. They have deep pockets. They are committed long term to this community. And you know, it's either no development or probably this is the best we get. Well, like you said, John, is a legacy for their family. Yeah, they're not trying to do that. Is the first of their kind that they've done. Yeah, I think that's true. And you know, trust but verify and put it in the contract. What I'd like to do is can I make a motion? Can you, well, you could pass your gavel and make a motion. Okay, well, I'd like a motion. I'm going to call for a motion that we, you know, unless we need to discuss this more, have a sense of this body for, you know, a recommendation to support during part, because we do have a number of opportunities to speak on behalf of, you know, the economic development task force at the workshop this week, at, you know, upcoming first and second readings and all of that. And I think we should weigh in with an opinion whether, you know, we agree what that opinion is. I don't know. So is there a motion to do something about it? Yeah, I think that we can do a motion, John, but I would recommend that we wait to get the new draft of the PUD. Well, because we're going on something that's getting rewritten and we don't know what's in the new one is. We have a lot of comments saying they're going to change this, they're going to change that. I think you could make a motion in support of the concept. You don't have to say exactly as the PUD, as it's written today, but you could make the task force members. You will... you could make a motion in support of the concept. You don't have to say exactly as the PUD as it's written today, but you could make the task force members you all could come together and make on the framework. On the framework and the concept of having smart growth development out there and supporting the daring part. I think we need to add our voice to that, because because that's what we're all sitting here other than just talking to ourselves. But before we do that, can I ask one question, Samantha? David brought up two good points, David. We're proud of you. Two points today. Two, two. All right, I'm done. I'm out of work. We focus on Deer and Park as far as the folks that are gonna live there. But we don't focus on edge water. There's also going to have another 6,000 homes out there. And the only way they get at the beach is through the soft cars way,000 homes out there. And the only way they get at the beach is through the soft cars way, the soft cars way. That's it. So you add on to that. That's one they brought out there. Second point was wages. You mentioned wages. Good wages out there. What is the proper wage to be able to afford a home out there Deer in Park. Like they ever said Oakland County. He went out there, homes were expensive. None of them, actually what they own were outside of the county. to be able to afford a home out there at Deer and Park. Like David said, Oakland County. He went out there, homes were expensive. None of them, actually, what they own were outside of the county, the properties, the business they own there. But how do we know what the wages are supposed to be for an employee to communicate with say that? In order for you to own up to afford to live here and play here is what you gotta make. From what I have gathered for Edgewater and for the New Samaritan portion of Deering Park overall is different price points as John and of course you also alluded to and also rental. So it would be market rate rental and I was looking at I went on to the Deering Park website because they now have a website on. Oh, good. And they have, you know, under $350,000 is a price for home. And right now, if you look at the average in New Samaritan Beach, our average is $450,000 for a home, starter home. So it's going to be less than what the current average is now, and then with a rental price point are going to be able to allow workforce attainable housing. So it's not going to be, you may have a couple million dollar homes out there, but the majority is not going to be that high level. Hence why the density is tighter because it's less expensive to build when you can put more piece, right? So that's helping and that's why you're seeing that with the density and those kinds of requests in that plain unit development agreement, is so that they can keep the housing costs down, so that then they can afford to sell them, still make a little bit of profit, be able to sell them for a lower price point. And they've owned the land, you know, the pennies on the dollar for the pay. Correct. But you still, I mean, PVC pipe for all of your infrastructure and your roads. I mean, for Williamson Boulevard alone, it's $68 million a mile to build the road because it's a four lane road. You've got the sidewalk on each side, all the landscaping, all the irrigation, the median in the middle. That's a huge investment that they are going to be responsible for paying for and building that road. So if you're buying a $350,000 house, your salary should be about $140,000. And that's going to happen out there. Two and a half times. You may have, you may have four, why don't you think they kind of money? Yeah, I'm kind of wondering where all of those people are going to work. Well, that's kind of what we're sort of talking about. We have to shape that. When the Tier 2 through 4 space industry. How many, 3, 4, and 5 quite honestly? I mean, realistically, if you're two family income, it's attainable. Everybody, 75. I'm not everybody down here per side. You live in a major city it's hard to do it on your own unless you're really right really making it so is there a motion to support the concept and direction of Daring Park Innovation Center and New Samirna Beach? Does there be motion? Sure, I'll make that motion. A second? Awesome. I'll second. Okay. No discussion. Okay. Yes. Discussion? Yes. All right. So David, you made the motion. I second. I second To support in the concept. I have no concept. Yes. Because discussion. I am all in favor of the concept. And I have no. I'm all in favor of the concept and a fair for the beginning. I am not in favor of the current writing and the wording in the POD as it stands today as I read it today. I would need to see more, like I said, proofs in the pudding because we have the city, unfortunately in the last 20 years, has not done putting Godrails for construction. It's all depending on economy. It's economy driven. Right now we're saying we're great, we do an excellent there, and the family could be a best family in the world. We'll get me wrong. But the parents, or whoever's in charge passes away. They give it to the kids, the kids, the kids, you know how, sell this thing, I don't want it anymore. Which could happen. happens a lot in this town, a lot of homes, their family owns it, they can't take it over, I wouldn't want it anymore, just sell it. It's not for us. So there is no- But you can happen. It happens a lot in this town. A lot of homes and family owns it. They can't take it over. I wouldn't want it anymore. Just sell it. It's not for us. So there is no guardrails as written today that I have a copy of in the PUD to say to me, yeah, I'm all for this here. There are some things that I'm skeptical. And I have been in this room many times where the Walmart deals, you guys with the aviation bang, have happened, but I don't see any guardrails in place at this time to prevent all this. Look at me wrong. Wording is great. But a great man once told me, nothing written, nothing said. If it's not in writing, they can't make it to today. All we're going to do is that kind of stuff, and later on, they won't do it, because they don't have to. They're not held to it. I'm in favor of the concept. I'm in favor of all this here, but I need to have more information. I agree with, with, with, with, with, with, and I'm comfortable with us adopting that motion because if we would not support it, nobody listens to you if you're supportive. Now they're just, they're opposed to it. So. adopting that motion because if we would not support it, nobody listens to you if you're supportive. Now they're just, they're opposed to it. So I think to say in principle, we're in agreement with it, it gives us a better opportunity to contribute our thoughts as it moves forward. I think it's a good starting point. I'm in support of it as well. I'm encouraged by some work that Venetian Bay did with Ardija Park, which is right next door. It's only residential, but it's represented by Glenn Stewart. He did the initial work and everything for them. And what I will say is there was some negotiation early on in their PUD and one heavy that resulted in a minor amendment and they have done everything that they said they would do. When there's been any kind of challenge, we've gone directly back to him and he sorted it out. So I think that's positive and it will be reflected in during park as well. So I'm comfortable with it. And I think as the economic development task force, we have to kind of lean on, you know, being supportive of economic development. But you know, this is our opportunity to shape what this looks like. I mean, we're not all powerful here, but we can weigh in. Right, and if there are some specific language that you would recommend, I would provide that, you know, to either city, SAF or the elected officials, you know, in, right, and be very specific, you know, just making a broad statement. No, it's not. You know, I would recommend that if you see something that we've missed in your opinion, I would provide that to write in writing and provide in copy-glin on that so that it's something because they have been very, they have made a lot of changes listening to all of the feedback and comments and suggestions and challenges and they have been very responsive to place those and change that language in the PUD agreement. Right, so just to bring that up the PUD, I've gone to the PUD I have it here as a matter of fact what a copy of it, 35 pages long and I have gone through and highlighted things that I felt. In fact, not feelings you know what I've seen in this room you happen to pass with PUDs thats that have been written and they come back and want to change it and the men in and the men in there. And Diana just told me that the Planning and Zoning Committee put in their agreement that they had to build so much. Yeah, there was a Planning and Zoning meeting last year that I sat through where they were talking about during park and they negotiated back. There was quite a bit of back and forth during that meeting. Talking about ex amount of commercial having not only be built but be occupied by a company before they could even break ground on the residential piece. And they had I think three different tiers of that. So just making sure that whatever was discussed in that meeting has translated and is reflected in the PED, I think we all have to hold each other accountable, right? So go on back and maybe watching that recording and making sure it's in there. And that recording is on that page on our website. It's sharing part of their all-in chronological order. So you can go back and listen to listen to it and has the video and everything and has all the documents that they were. So you can see the progression as has how the agreements have changed over the last several years that have gone through planning and zoning and all of our different commission meetings. Then all of the public meetings and all of the group stakeholder meetings that they've gone through, you can see the reiterations of each document now. It's kind of morphed. And then on the infrastructure components that are going to be required to be updated from the city's perspective, who's got all that? Who's got heads up on additional budgets that are going to have to be increased? So all of the construction is the developer. I mean that's how development is done is that they're creating the need therefore they have to build it. Right but if they're as an example if they're building city streets then the city is going to be the one to maintain the sidewalks and the streets and the street lights and the electricity for the street lights. So is there somebody that kind of dovetails behind them to capture all those costs that are going to be increased? And they probably pay impact fees. But the impact fees and the taxes that they'll pay that will generate that will pay for those additional maintenance costs. Right. But one of the things that I've learned about impact fees is that the developer will ask, we'll give you 10 acres for the police department, we'll give you 68 acres, but it's here, it's a quick, quick pro quo and it's changed for attack impact fees. So we don't pay the impact fees, but you guys get to land over here. So that happens a lot. It does, it does wash out though. It does even itself out. And remember, impact fees cannot pay for maintenance. Impact fees can pay for new infrastructure that the city needs to build. That's what impact fees go for. That's a Florida statute. So can it be written, and if it's, I don't know about law, if it's possible, not that the developer has to maintain the rows of five years after they're constructed. So how it normally works in our land development regulation is that if they have to be built to the city specifications, right? And then at some point, there is, if it's a private road to if it's gated, then the HOA takes care of it. If it's a public road, then it's deeded back either to the county or the city, usually the city, because it would be annexed in to the city with this plain unit development agreement. That's basically what that is. It's bringing it into the city and giving it a zoning category of use with the plain unit development agreement. and how period of time is that, do we know? If the road is built, and let's say for example, the building is for two roads. Usually it's usually spelled out into the Plan Unit Development Agreement of which roads would then become public, and they're actually deeded over. And normally, normally for like your utilities for like your pipes underground and things you want to have as a city you want to be able to have control over that. It's specifies it on the dedication on each plaque. The top right corner. Yeah so it's as each area is built and platted when that plaid is then signed on it to approved by the commission. Basically says yes, you built this according to the original plan that you gave us, right? That's what that final platt is. All the commissioners sign off on it and goes to the state and goes to the county. And at that time with that there's a transition and agreement. legal document that transitions the ownership to the city for that said right away or whatever it is. That's usually tied to development. Correct. If they build a street with no houses, they get billed on it. They keep it for a long time. Correct. Correct. Because then they haven't finished, they wouldn't get the final platter proof until that's done. Great conversation here guys. I hate to cut it short. We do have some other agenda items to get you out on time. So Miss Huffman, can you call the vote please? Take the, what do we call? Okay, so we're talking about the recommend to support during the course. Yes. Yes. You want me to put the verbiage in, not in favor of the verbiage of the PUD, as it stands now? No. I would just say the concept of economic development is represented by the Deer and Park development. We will see how the PUD comes. All right, so just stick with support of your... Of the concept, the framework. Like the concept in the framework. Yeah, let's keep it at a higher end. Yeah, okay. All right then. All right, so Diana Poole. Yes. David McKenna. Yes. Jesse Romero. Yes. Charles Tagman. Yes. John McKeen. Yes. I think that's a, you know know a Testament to our effort here that we have a 50 and support of the concept so I would ask that you know there is a workshop on Thursday there will be public comment there will be the you know the normal voices of opposition but you know any chance that you have to express that you know we support this concept you know and want to stand up and say something for no more than three minutes please do I plan to do that. Okay thank you that was a interesting and fruitful conversation let's move on real I want to thank you all for the opportunity to come back to Volusia County Innovation Challenge. Okay, thank you. That was interesting and fruitful conversation. Let's move on real quick to Volusia County innovation challenge winners So I have in your packet the press release that came from Volusia County and The winners were beyond bounced studios For the competition and then the second place was the Mr. Market. And that was really any concept as well to kind of teach. Was that who you mounted? No, I mentored SIPSafe and they did not make it to the final round. Yeah, were they the ones that won the People's Choice Award? Were they the- No, the People's Choice Award was another one of my, that was in my team. I mean, that was the B.W.W. Therapeutics. Oh, yeah, that's right. And yeah, he's- I had the, you know, the pleasure of attending the event. I thought it went really well. And, you know, it's one of the sources for entrepreneurial ship here in the county and for building business and they gave the example of there's a company that got nine million dollars in a funding that it really went through a number of iterations and they were local they were actually one of the's one of the judges and they, for the nine million in funding, they were required to move over to Tampa. Yeah, so one of the things that Lou Paris who runs economic development and a number of people are looking at is how do we have our own funding source here so we can, you know, say stay in our community, we'll give you some money and that's a gap. I thought it was great event. Please support it. Thank you for your effort on that. It was very inspiring. I know we'll be doing it again. We will be doing it again for sure. Apologies for missing it. I had planned to attend and I really wanted to and I ended up having to make a quick trip to Europe. So quick trip., I was quick turnaround. It was so real. No, no, no, no, it was nothing. Nothing, nothing special. Quite any other thoughts or comments on that? If not, try and get us back on track. Economic development, task force, duties, and responsibilities. I think there's two parts of this is, you know, what's the next thing that we engage on, and maybe that's on the next, no. Is it here? Yeah. You know, we did the survey. We're all busy people, you know, high-powered individuals. We need a purpose and, you know, what's the next thing that keeps us engaged? So there's that. And then I think some of it was also, you know, the advisory, we go from task force to advisory board, you know, if you want to. And I'm not sure that that is the direction that the commission will go. And the reason that I had brought that up is kind of a wish list because I noticed it as a task force that you're usually assigned specific tasks. And really we're more operating as an advisory board and so for an ongoing longevity of what we're doing because let's face it, economic development is not like a one and done kind of thing. I mean, these projects that we're working on and these initiatives, they take years to come to fruition and some of them just continue to be kind of an ongoing Work working at it Quick question why did they change it from a advisory board to a task force and But this doesn't look like anybody else or any of the other No, I don't know and it when I looked at everyone's term they all expire of September 1st Yes, so I was like that's weird, because usually in advisory board, you have staggered terms. So more to come on that. But if you, I did have, so in your packet, you have the strategic plan as it is today, and that's what we just had the session a couple weeks ago. And so we'll be coming out with an updated strategic plan. You also have in your packet the city's economic development strategic plan that was adopted in January of 2020 that we're looking, remember we're hiring the consultant, Kim Lee Warren, they're going to update that plan as well as our CRA plan. I also have our Southeast Volusia, an economic development plan that we have with the three cities altogether, that the Chamber, that we won that big prize room. But if you look at page 64 in your packet, it has the specific economic development task force overview and it has duties and responsibilities. And I just wanted and also has a fiscal year 2324 goals and objectives include kind of halfway down the page. And so if you kind of read through those, I'm just kind of going through there and going, okay, well, things that we've worked on, like the next page is survey the business community. Well, we've done that and we can put a check mark there. The develop, we changed it, it's not live where you work, but it's live work play. Improves affordable housing member, we made those recommendations. So maybe our next step would be seeing that those recommendations get heard by or considered by our development services to update our land development regulations and our comp plan. That might be something that we could talk about. As you go down in that list, you've got Explore the Housing Authority Live Oak property as a pilot program. We are still working with New Smirnaby Chousing Authority on those properties. We have, remember, the city approved $460,000 for those phase two of the Greenhorn Manor, which is for multi-family housing. So you've got that, and then you've got another $150,000 in the CRA budget to help demolish those live oak properties that were flooded during Ian. So those are not stopped. Those are all going on behind the scenes. There's a lot of state and federal money that also comes into those grants that she's actively working on, some actively working with her on that. And then of course the tax evapment, we can check that one off, we got that one approved. And then I put kind of ongoing, the promote new development and redevelopment existing commercial industrial properties that are for sale or end or lease. I can tell you I am actively working with about 17 property owners, perspective buyers and businesses that are looking at properties within our CRA district to redevelop them. So we potentially have about 17 more CRA grants that I'll be managing. So those are ongoing. So thank you for you know talking about those and making those known that you know these and redevelopment tools are available. And then of course the other one goes right in hand and in with that with the CRA's commercial facade. So those are some of the ongoing projects and then I didn't know if you guys wanted to look at these specifically today and do you want to pick another one or do you want to talk about it? We could table it and talk about it next time. You know, it would be my recommendation that we, you know, have a little time to digest this and look over it. You know, we have. So if you could, bring these with you next month when we meet. And let's really take the time and delve into it. Let's pick. Maybe our top two or three that we want to start working on now. And I would ask you know flip that around to you as you know as the head of economic development for the city what should we what do you need help with that's going to have the biggest impact? Because some of the smaller items, my main important. One of the things that I had talked to the Chamber about is it's business, small business education, having businesses that, you know, it's so sad to watch someone put all of their into redevelopment of a project or a business or a location and within two years they go out of business Because they didn't have the business acumen on how to actually run the business and so I would like to Us to partner with the chamber and let's do some small business focused education opportunities, not just for chamber members, but for anyone thinking about owning a business or they own a business or they need help expansion or finding access to capital or whatever it may be, let's help them. And that's for education. It's an amazing topic. It's a big topic of mine. It's a big thing. You know, I'd love to talk to you a little bit more about what that means, because that did come up in the recent economic development of the main. So I think it's that align some of our strategies with what the Chamber is doing, what Southeast Solution Manufacturing is doing, so that again, it's not all these different entities doing a bunch of different things in the community but we've got very strategic about it and we're in line and working together and partnering and collaborating with those. And you said that the new summer beach strategic plan is being redone now. Yes, that was a workshop that we had with the commissioners. It was a public meeting last month. What's that do to? I think it's coming before the commission. I think in May, so we'll see that. First draft or something. Yeah. And isn't art revisions to the land development, land use regulations being done now, land development. So from a timing perspective, if we wanted to provide input to that, it would need to be sooner rather than later. Yes, okay. That's one of the, that's one of the, we should tackle first. Because that's what impact, during part first, we can have an input into what we wanna see out there and the awarding wise there. That'd be one that we should be, I believe which tackle first, personally. Another, an insert. In regards to trying to get businesses here, two things that I want to mention, I did send an email to the commissioners maybe a year and a half ago when they had this, they went to review all the boards they had here. Because they had boards that were created in 74, has it been changed, so they went through that. And I ask the question is, why are we a task force? I ask the Democrats to. And I don the question is, why are we a task force? I ask the demo question in that advisory board. Because the economy goes every year. It's not just economic development, it's all time. It's not just one project you have here. So I asked the question, that was year and a half ago. So they knew about it about that. So I appreciate you making us into an advisory board because we do need people to be here. Because different parts will take 10 years, 20 years. Who knows? Number one. Number two, I also mentioned at the first meeting we had here is that the Belucia County members came out here and talked to us the first meeting we met, well, back. And some of them had gone to the Paris Air Show, some of them had gone to other air shows. And I mentioned to you that I went to the one in Pensacola and gave a card to a lot of companies that I'd had to Mississippi Alabama supporting this space industry there. If you need anybody to go to the Paris Air Show or to the Oscar's Air Show, any kind of shows, let me know. cards are not good, that's a little travel. I got the time. So are you taking for funding for that or would you? No, no funding required. No funding required. I will gladly use my own money and my own time to go. Great. I don't need anybody's money. John. Oh, I just was so terrified. I want David to fun made ago. Okay thank you we're gonna move on I think we're now to new business and we do have a couple of areas to discuss the Volusia days in Tallahassee update and report. I attended that. I went, you know, tag along some business. We have, he, why office there? And I had a dual purpose couple of days there. You know, good event. It, the mayor and the city manager attended as did Chamber CEO and board chair. And, you know, elected officials, heads of agencies of agencies came in and spoke to us it was an active day of legislative effort for you know the For the state government so they were in and out You know chase Traymont spoke So our senator spoke. Let's see, yeah Tom Wright. And you know, informative, good bonding opportunity, you know, there were some social parts to it. And you know, you know, our mayor was very engaged, you know, asking a fair amount of the questions that were asked about, you know, issues of the day. You know, interesting opinions on home rule. He's clearly wants that and, you know, our state delegate has a different opinion or state rep does. I don't know if there's anything else I'd share. Just a CRA's, the House Bill and the Senate Bill that are trying to limit the CRA's. There's just, I get my email blows up every day from the Florida Read Development Association just to oppose those bills strongly, but it looks like they are gaining a lot of traction. So it may be the end of CRAs from today. Why? Because some people don't spend the funds and then it goes back in the general fund. There are some throughout the state of Florida, I believe, there are some very old CRAs that have been on the books for 30, 40 years. And they're looking to, be able to shut those down. And per floor to statute, you can spend CRA funds, trust fund dollars on extra policing, on events, on marketing, on advertising, on all kinds of different types of promotions to try to you know bring business and life and walkability back to that specific area of your city and but with like the newer CRAs that was like ours The county was very specific and it only limited us to be able to use CRA funds for Capital projects that are not on our CIP list, which is capital improvement project list, and facade grants for exterior improvements only. So I'm not an expert on CRAs, but this is funding that comes from the state or... No, it comes from tax increment financing, which they call TIFF, you know, the acronym for everything in government. So how it works is, and back in 2014, when this was established, just like 2015, let's say the tax is a taxable value, and the entire Sierra district was $100,000. Just say for just round numbers. And then the next year, it goes up to $105,000. That extra $5,000 has taken off the top. So the city and the county still get their tax from that, from that first base year. But the extra is like 95% of that extra then goes into the trust fund. So the county actually writes the CRA a check every year in December, January, for that last year's tax increment. So and over time it builds to where you can do some great projects, you know, infrastructure and stormwater and facade grants and streetscapes and all kinds of great things that are allowed by Florida statute. So it's not cumulative. The next year, it's anything above 105, right? Yeah. No, it's anything over the base year. So maybe the next year goes 110, then to be $10,000 that next year. So at some point they could be getting 30% of the tax. Depending upon if the tax will value goes up. But the way that the county wrote our permission basically with their resolution to be able to create the CRA as the tax Taxable valuable value increases their Contribution decreases so it kind of has you know this effect What why are they trying to what's the the insider view of why they're trying to get rid of this a lot of counties view it as kind of a You know They have to write the check and I don't want to hand it our tail correct So that's a view for a lot, but you know, you have to look at long term And some of the CRAs are like I said they don't have an end date and I think perhaps a lot of those early south Florida they're a lot of the older CRAs. So would this allow the jurisdiction to fund as they want and have more control over and not have to not not if they take away home rule. Right yeah I'm talking I think that's the biggest risk to what's going on in Daring Park actually is the overreach from the state. I'm not happy about that at all. Okay, well that's probably a longer discussion. Oh yeah, yeah. So we'll pass on that one. Next item, Newsroom and Abbeach Utilities Western Land Workshop. I saw it, I heard you, I was paying attention online. Yes. Yesterday, the Newsroom are each utilities up in their debary room they had a public meeting. It's once a month they have a workshop when they're talking about the study that they had done by Fish Kind. And they have kind of a plan about as they consolidate and move all of their operations out west on their property that they own west of 95. And it's just how to approach it and where do they approach it all in one big fell swoop or is a phased approach better and then how best use of the properties that they don't need because they have 900 acres but they probably only need a couple hundred. So there's been a couple ideas of selling off some of that property for development and then what makes the most sense. But yesterday's meeting, they specifically asked for the city planning department, an engineering department managers to come in and kind of talk about development of property in general and what that would take and how long it takes and the steps that would need to be done kind of in order. So we talked about changing the land use and changing the zoning and kind of the meetings it would take to do that and the cost and the time frame and all those kind of things just to kind of be able to lay it out in layman's terms of what what the steps are in order to take. So it was a great question and feedback. City's a good job presenting it in nice simplistic terms that everyone could understand well. And that's the land essentially west of 95 north of 44. Correct. And all in there. Yes. It's a pioneer trail. So it's behind behind Walmart or round Walmart So that's 9800 acres at this nine nine hundred about but there are a lot of wetlands You know on that so you know to take advantage of the uplands that they have So they planning a campus type development? Yeah, so they you know they would need it for the like their maintenance operations. They would relocate so they would sell what they have here on Canal Street. They would also vacate the swoop site, be able to allow the city to put more boot ramps and parking and, you know, those kinds of things. So they're kind of decentralized and so they would look at centralizing all of of their operations.'s also some opportunities perhaps from maybe the city and or county for fleet and maintenance operations to consolidate because you know like the county has the one there on 90 on excuse me US one. So there might be some opportunities for some partnerships and you know kind of be able to spread that investment around. So. Okay. It's a great strategy. Yeah. So it was a good meeting. More to come. Thank you. We're going to skip to the Director's report. I think you've been giving a lot of that along the way. Yep. I've been kind of giving it along the way just to kind of put on your calendars, the Daring Park Innovation Center workshop at 6 p.m. on Thursday. That's in this room. And as well as the state of the city on Monday April 21st, doors open at 5.30. We'll begin presentations at 6. And that will be at the Brandon Center. How long does that go for? I think about an hour and a half or two. We're going to do a little bit different this time. We will have music. I don't think there's a saxophone player or something like that that's gonna be there. Is that the guy at the court now or not? I don't know. I don't know where he comes from. He can sax and an saxophone. And I don't know if there's going to be some snacks and light food. Usually yes, snacks. And then this year the mayor, the directors are going to have like a table and so we'll be there to answer any questions and kind of provide information about, you know, our goals and our accomplishments and things like that. So a little bit different twist to it, sure. Hey, question, Booty Co-Tel on Canal. Is that moving forward in any way? I ran into my code on all of them. You think they had a pre-application meeting a couple weeks ago. The challenges is our Florida area ratio, and that's why I really want to talk to you guys about land development regulations and our comp plan, because I think that's in our comp plan. But, you know But could we create something like a hospitality zone or area where we would allow the city could allow like a little bit higher height restriction and also tighter density and just can out maybe it's just can outstrader maybe it a third avenue in connoisseur, whatever that looks like. But that would be my recommendation. So they would have to go through the rules, would have to be changed to allow. Yeah, to make it work, because it's all about room keys, right? There's a certain number of room keys that you need to have to be able to make your numbers work so that you're at least minimum breaking even. but I mean, let's face it, you know, he needs to be able to make a profit on it. So that's the challenge. Now, the question I have is, how much tax dollars do we, that's the city get from hotel rooms? So the city, I don't know what the city gets, but I know that like our visitor center, that bed tax is what, 12% now. So if some of it goes to the Ocean Center, if some of it goes to the county, and some of it actually trickles its way back down so we can advertise out to bring more visitors in. Right, so the city does not get any direct money from the bed tax. Just the impact, just the economic impact, people coming in here, that kind of stuff here. So we. But look at what the Hampton Inn did for Flagler Avenue. It's exactly what I was going to bring up. And you barely know that it's there. Yeah. And after seven years, and I worked on that thing for seven years to get it here and get it built. It was designed nice. It was designed nice. Yeah. It takes time. But look at the wonderful impact with our restaurants, So they family atmosphere on Flagler Avenue, the shops are full, the restaurants are full. People come, they park their car, and they walk everywhere. And that would bring new life for our Canal Strait businesses. Well, it basically doubled the economic impact on Flagler Avenue once himpton was open. Probably even more than that. Actually I think that numbers might be old but yeah but I remember doing some digging on that. I love the idea of having something like that on canal. And what's unique isn't like huge and obnoxious you know and you could put design standards and things like that on that to make it really lovely and beautiful and landscaped well and there's all kinds of great things that we could do. I think I think they with the the property we're talking about the I choose commission property be converted to a particular hotel with the property they have handy right now they can expand to the to the south and then have to change the far. That's my point of view. But would it be great to have a parking garage behind there? Well, you can hold the hat. It's a big land enough there. You can do both. There's parking there now. You can do, but you can't park there. No, you can't right now. Right. But you could. But if you could, what if it was a deck multi-story parking garage would be lovely right there. What if you can do both without changing the form? I think you still have to change the form. Just for the property there on Rush and Canal Street, you've got to update a little bit. Interesting. Any other things you want to cover? No. All righty. We can go back to member comments. We've had a fair amount of that. A good discussion, anything anybody would like to add? I got one more thing. There. I'm done. Alrighty. Professionalism, I love it. Alrighty, thank you. The only thing I would add, could you do that in Spanish please? I'm sorry. You gotta get to your website. I'm sorry. The only thing I would add to what David said is parking beachside is finite. There's only so many cars. And more and more now you see signs on 44 beaches closed. And you go over there and there is no place to park. And yet the city does not generally speaking want a parking garage over there. No I I understand that. I mean, citizens rather. We need to think of some type of shuttle arrangement. Yeah, some of them are parking somewhere off beach and... So, let me tell you that if you don't mind the parking issue. All right? I live on Cooper. I am being discriminated in this city for living on Cooper. People can park in front of my house. You go north of ocean, you can't park in front of your house here, because they have rocks, they have grass, they have sprinkler heads. Up and down to Flagler, sitting on Pine Street. So if you're going to, if the city, like I said, it'd be four in front of the parking task force, If you're going to go out there and reclaim the property that's rightfully the cities, the Eastlands that you allowed to park at, if you're going to do that, you won't have a parking problem. And I bring up the parades, the Montygrop Parade, people parking in front of my house, up and down Flaglab and down Pine, just to meet the cause of the parade, they the place. All right? Unfortunately, the solution is you have to move, Jess. Again? No, it's, I mean, but really, I hear you. If the city would do what is rightfully theirs, I'm sacked, said, you have sidewalk there. Right. They get to sidewalk on both sides. Yes. For now. Yeah. If you know that there will be a sidewalk on both sides. After they get the discussion, yes, they will be. Yeah, that development finally started the. Yes. And that's probably about the last piece of property beach side that you can build 100 homes or 80 homes. Oh, yeah. I looked at the last while back there at the zoning areas. Are the city here behind Sachsen is zone R2. And behind CBS is zone rest of that. I mean commercial. So if you look at the map, the zoning map there extends beyond Sachsen, the other side. So. Yeah, I don't know where exactly where you're talking about. Behind Sachsen going west, but a property line end. What was Sachsen before? Well, that's true. I rest my case. Hey, have you seen how they're going to do the roads there? Because that's putting a lot of people right on that Intersection and that's a bitch one egress and ingress right there on the right on Saxon between seventh and that's the other way in and out Wow The because then the residents of seventh thought it successfully Because there is a lot down there that they could have acquired but the commission wouldn't allow it. How are they widening the road? Are they so it's going to be the same? Well, I understand they turned it over to the city. The city now owns the road which is relatively recent. So now people are working on the city because the county wouldn't do anything. I have a left turn signal when you're coming off Saxon to turn left and go west on the third. You're going to need that? Yeah, I have not seen. I'm actually decided to move. So, and you have a nice house. Where are you going? I bought a lot on Riverside Drive. Well, good you. A lot on Riverside in Edgewater or six one block down from the Yacht Club. I don't look at you. So in your building house? Yeah. These are a house there now. There was they ripped it down and split it into two lots at 41 12 and 41 10. Well there's no one. Who are you using for builder? Oh, I'll use, I'll use brand. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's exciting stuff. Any other comments before I gavel us done? You know, we had a long discussion. It's still a great job. Oh, yeah. I'm going to go. And I got a raspberry from Jess, so that made my day. We're now adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. Patsy, thank you for-