I now call the San Juan Capastrano Cultural Heritage Commission meeting of March 25th, 2025 to order. Cultural Heritage Commission Secretary, please call the roll. Absolutely. This evening we have commissioners Anna Dickinson. Present. Anne Ronin. Janet Siegel. Vice Chair Lopez. Here. And Chair Paragu. Here. and her perigee. Here. Janet Siegel. Here. Lyshe Chair Lopez. Here. And Chair Paragu. Here. Great. Moving on to the Pledge of Allegiance. I will now lead the Pledge of Allegiance. Please rise if you're able. And we can begin. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. into the rear power flow which it stands one nation under an indignation with liberty and justice for all. Okay, moving on to oral communications. Oral communications is the time for the public to address the Cultural Heritage Commission on matters not listed on the agenda. Persons wishing to address the Cultural Heritage Commission on any items not listed on the agenda may do so at this time. Please limit your remarks to three minutes. Is there anyone that would like to address the cultural heritage commission on any item on the agenda? If so, we need to have them fill out a yellow request to speak for them. Once we are ready, we will move forward and I will call you by name. Let's see. Do we have any speakers? We do not. Okay. Great. Consent calendar. Items on the consent calendar are considered routine and may be enacted by one motion in vote. There will be no separate discussion of these items. If discussion is desired, that item will be removed from the consent calendar and will be considered separately. We have one item on the consent calendar, which is the draft October 22, 2024, Cultural Heritage Commission Minutes. Secretary Stokes, do you have any requests from the public wishing to pull this item from the consent calendar? I do not. Great. So any cultural heritage commissioners wish to remove any items from the consent calendar for discussion. All right. Is there a motion to approve the consent calendar? I so move. Is there a second? Second. Great. All right. Let's vote then. How many in favor of passing the, are approving the consent calendar? I. I. I. Great. A unanimously passes. Moving on to public hearing item. Secretary Stokes, please read the title of item D1. Item D1 is consideration of accessory used per 204-001. Site plan review 24-002. Administrative approval 24-011. A determination of physical and aesthetic compatibility with structures in places identified on the city's inventory of historical and cultural landmarks for the cottage at River Street Ranch. proposed 980 square foot structure with 345 square foot porch and 636 square foot outdoor dining area for a new eating establishment that would include the sale and the onsite consumption of beer and wine at 31791 Lowsrio Street. I ended over to the project manager. Okay. Miss Rimer, is that how you feel about it? Thank you. May we have a staff report please? Good evening, commissioners. Nice to meet you all. I'm Laurel Rimer. I'm a contract planner. This is my first time before you. I'm looking forward to presenting. The project before you tonight is the cottage at River Street Ranch. The project site is located at 31791 Loss Rio Street. This is a 1.2 acre parcel or site area bounded by Paseo Adelante to the west, River Street to the south, Loss Rio Street to the east, and it's located just north of the River Street Marketplace and south of L Rios Park. The project site has a general plan, the Land Use Designation of specific plan, slash precise plan, and is zoned specific plan 78-01, which is the Los Rios specific plan. The Los Rios specific plan covers a 40 acre area containing structures of historical significance. It's divided into seven base districts and the subject property is within both the historic residential district which is shown in light yellow here and the historic commercial district which is the pink area. The subject property is developed with hidden house coffee, a historic residential structure, and River Street Ranch, which is formerly known as Zumars, and that is a children's petting zoo that has operated on the site since it was entitled in 2006. The Lowes' real specific plan has been amended several times since it was adopted in 1978. Most recently, ordinance 1117, which was adopted in April 2024, changed the district boundaries to increase the boundaries of the historic commercial district by about 4,500 square feet, which is that pink portion that juts off to the right a little bit. It also allowed for eating establishments of no larger than 1,000 square feet in size, as long as they are accessory uses to a permitted use or a conditionally permitted use within the historic commercial district. It also allowed for those accessory eating establishments to serve beer and wine as long as they obtained a necessary use permit. The subject property is subject to Council Policy 603. Council Policy 603, Section 5 states that proposed land use improvements adjacent to buildings on the city's inventory of historic and cultural landmarks. Shall be reviewed and approved by the Cultural Heritage Commission provided that a finding of physical and aesthetic compatibility is determined. This applies projects that are either on property on the IHCL or properties that are adjacent to it. So in this instance, there are four historic structures or properties within either on the parcel or adjacent to the project site. Hidden House Coffee is within the Oliveres House and there's also an accessory structure, the Oliveres accessory building that are historic. Additionally, the River Street itself is identified as a contributor to the Los Rios Street Historic District, and that's listed on the National Register of Historic Places. River Street is also listed on the cities and inventory of cultural and historic landmarks. The new structure is also located about 100 feet south of the Rios Adobe. It's important to note that while there are four historic resources and very close proximity, The proposed project would construct a new 980 square foot building or accessory structure with a 345 square foot porch and a 630 square foot building. The proposed project does not affect or propose any modifications to those structures or the street. The proposed project would construct a new 980 square foot building or accessory structure with a 345 square foot porch and a 636 square foot outdoor dining area. And that would be used for a new eating establishment that would also allow for the sale and on site consumption of beer and wine. The proposed eating establishment would be an accessory use to the River Street branch and it's intended mainly to serve guests or patrons of the River Street branch, but it also will serve any one in the Los Rios area. The menu is intended to provide specialty pizzas, but it will also have small plates, salads, sandwiches, and feature a broad range of beverage selections, including beer and wine. The applicant proposes to operate the new eating establishment from 11am to 9pm, 7 days a week. The applicant's request does require three entitlements. The first is accessory use permit 24 to 001, and that's to allow for the sale and on-site consumption of beer and wine. And if you remember the ordinance 111-7 did allow for alcohol or beer and wine sales as long as it was approved with an accessory use permit. So that's why this is before you. Site plan review 24-002 is for the development of the structure itself because the property is included on the city's IHCR. And also administrative approval 24 just 01.1. That is needed to modify the previously entitled site plan and to allow for the outdoor dining area. So the previously approved site plan is tied to conditional use permit 06-01, and that was for the Zoom Mars, so back in 2006. The proposed structure would be located on an approximately 3,500 square foot area within the historic commercial district. So that's what's shown in purple here. It would be located behind Hidden House Coffee and just east of River Street Ranch. This area was previously used for guest gathering, for birthday parties and things like that, associated with Sue Mars. So it was always used as, as I guess overflow kind of party space. And now the applicant is looking to formalize that by providing on site food service. Previously, guests would have to bring food on site because there were no food options. Currently, this area is used for storage. In the enlarged site plan, you can see that the structure would be located approximately 10 feet north of River Street. And you can't see it here, but it's about 115 feet west of Los Rio Street. It would be situated across River Street from the San in one Capastrano Historical Society and River Street Marketplace. The main porch area and order windows would be oriented to the east and they would face the open outdoor dining area. A restroom would be located on the west of the structure and bike racks would be installed south of the structure along River Street. Importantly, there's, it's already showing, that red dashed line is a barrier that, whether it's a fence or a wall, there is a requirement within the Los Rio specific plan that an alcohol use on a historic commercial district must be physically separated from the historic residential district by some sort of physical barrier So in this case the woods or the existing historic structure will provide part of that barrier along with the accessory storage structure But then the missing middle parts will be Offense or or wall will have to be constructed In the landscape site plan here you see the outdoor dining area and the seating is mostly clustered around a new coast live oak. This tree is proposed with an 84 inch box, so it will be a pretty large tree that's planted, so it will provide nice shade and coverage from the get-go. Additionally, you can see the bike racks proposed along River Street which are those dots, those eight dots towards the bottom of the image. The new structure would be 36 feet, three inches away from the Olaviris accessory building and that coast live oak would be planted in between the structures to help provide some separation between that newly proposed structure and the existing historic structure. The elevations shown here are the 980 square foot structure. It's a single story building that's designed in the circa 1890 to 1910, board and baton vernacular architectural style. It has gable synthetic roof, a gable roof, synthetic cedar tile, right, synthetic cedar, shake roof, hip-roofed porches supported by square posts, and colors that are compatible with the existing nearby structures. It would have a maximum height of 18 feet to the top of parapet, and a 345 square foot porch will cover the main ordering windows and be oriented towards the outdoor dining area. In this 3D image, you'll see this is looking from River Street if you're heading west from Los Rios and this is the main image that you would see as you're heading down River Street from Los Rios towards the River Street marketplace or the River Street ranch and those are as you see the main order windows and that covered porch. So here is that view from Los Rios Street. You can see Hidden House Coffee, the historic accessory building, the Olivares accessory building, and that arrow was roughly where the new structure would be located. This is just a close-up view of the Olivares accessory building and again the structure would be 36 feet, 3 inches away from this. The new structure would be 36 feet, 3 inches separated from this with that coast live up planted in between. And just another view of it with the structure going roughly in this location. And again, it's used for storage currently, so that's right there. That fence won't be there once this is built, so don't worry. And then just a further view, you can see the River Street Ranch to the left. And this is, I guess, that easternmost point of River Street Ranch. That's roughly where the location of the new structure would be. And then this is looking from the fence into River Street Ranch and onto the site where the structure would go. And then lastly, this is the view looking west on River Street. So I just wanted to show what the River Street Marketplace architecture looks like compared to where the new structure would be located. So, staff has reviewed the applicant's request and determined that all findings for the accessory use permit, site plan review, and accessory and administrative approval can be made. And staff believes that the proposal and use improvements are a physical and aesthetic compatibility with the adjacent IHCL structures and places. So the proposed project is consistent with the general plan, the Los Rio specific plan and the land use code. It meets all development standards of both the specific plan and the land use code It's design is historically compatible and complimentary with the existing historically significant structures within the Los Rios district So it's compatible with those abutting properties and uses the abutting uses would be their coffee shop the petting market. So a new pizza establishment or eating establishment is very compatible with those existing uses. It will not detract from the existing adjacent historic structures. It's been designed consistent with the city's design guidelines and the character of the existing development. So staff believes that all findings can be made. Upon review by the applicant and some additional consideration by staff, we do have a few recommended revisions for the conditions of approval and these are required to ensure full adherence to both the Los Real Specific Plan and the Municipal Code. So, condition of approval 19, the applicant had requested that we add landscaping, that the word in red there, as being a possible barrier between the historic commercial district and the historic residential district. However, staff does not recommend this. Staff has, recommends rejecting this change because it is inconsistent with the specific plan language. So everything else in this is taken straight from the specific plan. And we don't believe that landscaping meets the intent of that requirement from the specific plan. Additionally, condition of approval number 20, The specific plan for accessory use permits does have very clear language that the alcohol use needs to be established within one year of the city council's approval of the permit. Originally, staff had recommended additional time because in this case, the accessory use that alcohol, the beer and wine sale is tied with a structure that still needs to be built. So we wanted to provide additional time for the applicant to build the structure. However, the wording of the specific plan states that it needs to be one year. So that's why we've recommended these revisions to ensure compliance with the Lusria-specific plan. The applicant has requested that we remove condition of approval number 21. This condition, there are two other accessory use permits within the LOSRIO's historic, or within the LOSRIO-specific plan area. And these are tied to two existing eateries that then added alcohol sales. And so this condition related more to an existing building that was adding. So staff agreed with the applicants request that we remove this because it doesn't really seem relevant for this new building. And then that changed the numbering for some subsequent conditions. So, condition of approval number 22 is now 21. And we added language to clarify the timing of just some of the timing. So in the specific plan, the food service, the alcohol must be a accessory use with a food service use. But if that food service goes away, you cannot maintain that alcohol use. And it does say that it's for more, if it's discontinued for more than 30 calendar days, then you need to also do away with your beer and wine. So we added for more than 30 calendar days to be consistent with the specific plan language. Additionally, the wording or the condition number 26 or rather now 25 was just kind of funky. So it's reworded to be more clear about what it means for a what triggers expiration or not. And it's once construction or use commences, then your approval is valid. Otherwise, you have 12 months to ensure that you pull your building permits. Similarly, the applicant requested some revisions to this stand. This is a condition of approval from the engineering department. And we reviewed it with the engineering staff and they agreed with the applicant's changes. So this new text in red is approved by the engineering staff. So the project, the city's environmental administration administrator determined that the project is categorically exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act under state-sequa guidelines section 15303, class 3, and that's the exemption for new construction or conversion of small structures. In this case, it's a 980 square foot building, and even if you add in the 345 square foot porch and the 636 square foot outdoor dining area, it's still less than this 2,500 square foot or limitation for small structures. One thing I didn't mention earlier is that, typically, a site plan review is approved by the Cultural Heritage Commission and you've seen many of them come before you. An administrative approval is typically reviewed by the zoning administrator so it's a staff level review. But the specific plan language requires an accessory use permit be approved by the City Council. So because there are three entitlements that are all tied together and one of them requires approval by the City Council, we are recommending that the entire project be approved by the City Council versus parsing certain entitlements off. So that's why the recommendation or staff's recommendation tonight is that the Cultural Heritage Commission adopt a resolution that recommends that the City Council approve, assessor use permit 24-001, site plan review 24-002, and administrative approval 24-001 as conditioned with the revisions made tonight. Also that the Cultural Heritage Commission determine that the proposed land use improvements are a physical and aesthetic compatibility with the adjacent IHCL structures and places as described in City Council Policy 603 and determined to find that the action is categorically exempt from CEQA. That concludes my presentation. The applicant's representative is here and does have a little bit that he wants to say, but I'm available for questions and he's available for anything that I can't answer. Thank you very much. Doom, 3D Advisors, Coder Decauza, processor for OMQIST development. Mr. OMQIST had a previous commitment and passes along his apologies for being unable to attend this evening. But with me this evening is the Project Architect, Mr. Bickel, Jim Bickel with Bickle Group Architecture. If you have any questions regarding the design of the building and their thought process in laying that out with compliance, you'll be happy to address those. I would like to thank the commissioners for their time this evening in considering this request before you. And I'd also like to take a moment to acknowledge Commissioner Seagull's two decades of community service here on the Cusrah Heritage Commission. The Cottage Project began over a year ago with an amendment to the Los Rios specific plan. We are now before you for entitlements on this less than thousand square foot building for a food and beverage use. Staff has been guiding the property owner through the city's review process to arrive at this point this evening. We have reviewed their agenda report and appreciate their diligence in ensuring that the proposal is thoroughly evaluated and we have no concerns with their analysis. I would point out that the Jones and Fort Mueller started the petting zoo in the late 70s in that same vicinity where the cottage is proposed has been used by both Jones mini-form and then subsequently the Gonzalez's Zumara petting zoo for birthday parties and special events. I personally remember attending many civic functions in that location for the Chamber of Commerce, the Historic Preservation Society, Fundraisers, and at those functions we had food, including alcoholic beverages as well. So it's always been kind of used as a party area for food and dining and events. We did review the conditions of approval and provided our comments earlier to staff. Those have been adequately addressed by Ms. Reiner's presentation this evening and she did a very good job of articulating those. Thank you very much. Your attention, your action tonight is actually advisory to City Council as she pointed out and we thank you in advance for any favorable recommendations for this 980 square foot cottage addition to the Zoom Mars property or the River Street ranch petting zoo now. Thank you very much. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have Thank you. I'll now call on each cultural heritage commissioner and see if they have any questions for staff or others. Commissioner Ronan? Yes. So I like the building. I understand what has been used for. It's a great location and the birthday parties and all that. I really, I personally don't have a problem with the beer and wine in that area for families. What I am concerned about is, I believe, zoom hours at River Street, hours are 10 to 4. Seven days a week, am I correct? Yeah, and he's asking, you're asking for 11 a.m. to 9 p.m. Seven days a week. I would have a real problem with that. I can see 10 to even five, so that the birthday parties can wrap up that may start later in the afternoon But I have a real hard time. It's too close to the Rio's house The noise in the back that's my own that's the only concern I have Mr. Seagal Yes, I would like to know I mean I thought we've discussed all this like three years ago when there was the wanting alcohol at the Ramos House and at the T House. And at that time there were going to be seven of, if I recall correctly, maybe it it was five structures on Los Real Street that were wanting to serve alcohol, including the hidden house and the house across the street from Los Real's. And all of those were turned down because of the proximity to residences and to keep it as a residential neighborhood, which is on the National Registry, and to maintain the integrity of the street as a residential neighborhood that you don't have to serve alcohol in every single establishment 24-7. And so I thought we went all through this three years ago when it was given the T House was given permission and the Ramos House and that no other structures, as I recall the rurting of that, was that no other structures on the street would be allowed to serve alcohol because if you're going to open up this one, then what's to say that another house on the street wouldn't want to have alcohol too. And what you're going to be able to say, no, you can't do that, when you've already approved it. And so I have been on cultural heritage for 20 years. And I keep saying over and over again, when it comes to selling alcohol on most real street, if alcohol was a reason for people being in business, McDonald's would have gone out years ago, because they've never served alcohol. So when you're having a place that's mostly for children, these parties are for kids, mostly under eight years old, because they're the ones that really love the zoo and everything about it. And so I don't see why you have to have alcohol at all. I don't have a problem with the building. I think it really would be a very nice addition to the street. But I have a very big problem with wanting to serve alcohol in this particular location. And the other thing I would like to know that I didn't find out in any is that there again three years ago, there was talk of putting in a pizza place and it was voted down because the smoke was going to be from the wood fire that was being used as an oven for the pizza was going to be very offensive to the people on Los Rios Street, particularly the Los Rios Adobe. And so I see nowhere in this report as to what kind of cooking the pizza is going to be and I know that there are pizza ovens that are not wood but there's nothing in here that says that it wouldn't be wood. And I just would like to know some clarification on that. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner Lopez? Yeah, I don't know if he was going to answer Commissioner Seagull's question first or if he just wants me to proceed. I don't actually have he was going to answer Commissioner Seagull's question first or if he just wants me to proceed I don't actually have any questions to echo what Commissioners Seagull and Ronin said I agree. I think it's a beautiful structure and Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're not just considering those reels, right? I mean this is also also River Street. There are multiple structures or locations that we have to consider when considering the historic compatibility with inconsistency with this structure, correct? So I have visited my daughter's second birthday. It was at Los Rios or Zumars and those Zumars. You know, we have my son's 10th birthday was this past weekend. We had family parties. I personally don't have an issue with beer and wine at a party. I think that it can be harmless. I don't think that you're necessarily welcoming any kind of danger or anything negative with serving beer and wine people just like to be at a kids party and you know have a nice cool beer on a Sunday while they're watching kids hit a piñata. senior issues with that. And in considering not just those reo street but also river street where we now have the beautiful river street marketplace where there are senior issues with that. And in considering not just those reo street but also river street where we now have the beautiful river street marketplace where there are are there's a you know great restaurants in there there's places to get alcohol. I think that this would be consistent with that. I do think that you know it's just with the setup of the whole environment or the whole area. I like it and I don't have any issues with it. I don't think that it's a, I mean, the slippery slope is always going to be an argument that you can make, you know, you let one in and then where does it stop. But I just, I think that this is harmless. I think that it's just a family-oriented structure that's going to be having food and then some beer and wine. and I don't think the people that go to Zuma or you know the petting zoo are the type of people that are going to you know put down a dangerous or an excessive amount of alcohol so I I like it I agree that the structure should be separated by by some kind of wall or something like that as opposed to landscaping but you know I think that the way that they've done these plans it they've gone to great lengths to maintain the you know the integrity of the area. That's it. Thank you Commissioner Dickinson. So it's my recollection that the SS reuse permits that were denied three years ago were in the historical residential district and this particular project if I'm correct is actually in the historical commercial district. Therefore I do not see how that could be a potential slippery slope for properties outside of the commercial historical district. I do have questions though about the fencing. I see it mentioned in our report, I see that it's a part of that it must be a barrier for the drinking establishments. Yet I see no types of design for that, especially along the River Street ranch. There is a fence there that is compatible with the other structures in the area. Is that fence going to continue along River Street? and then the barrier between the River Street project and the historical residential area. Will that be a similar fence or do you want it to be the barrier that will be visually seen by those projects. I would like to know what that information is. I think that really the report was very well done. So thank you. Thank you. And before I turn it back over to you to answer all of your questions, I just wanted to say that I do concur with Commissioner Ronan. I had had the same flag in regards to Zumar's closing at 4 p.m. And I felt like it was a little excessive to have the beer and alcohol available till 9 p.m. Especially with all the new facilities in the adjacent area. I love the River Street Ranch, like others. My daughter's birthday party was there last year, bringing in food is a giant pain. Having all of that accessible would be fantastic. It just feels like it's not actually the primary intent for the River Street market if it's staying open till 9 p.m. But I'd love to hear feedback. Thank you. Can I address a couple of the questions that were asked? One is that yes, there were a few years back. There were requests for alcohol service with food and there was a lot of controversy and with the City Council did is it said only restaurants that currently are allowed to sell alcohol can expand. It can sell alcohol. So limited to the T House and Ramos Cafe. Subsequent to that Mr. Olquist approached a filed for a code amendment and the City Council approved an amendment that said, okay, in addition to only restaurants that currently have accessory use permits in the historic district, also new businesses in the historic commercial district can apply. And that's why this application is before you because the City Council changed the code to allow this application. And then there was another question about, oh, the fencing. Oh, so when the city council was considering the code amendment to allow historic commercial establishments to apply for alcohol, it was the uniqueness of this property was discussed because it has a dual classification, historic commercial and historic residential. And because of the concern of mixing alcohol with historic residential is not allowed, that's why the council was very adamant of that they wanted to have a physical separation. So the physical separation is not a long river street, not between the property and river street but between on the property itself, between in the House and in this, in this, in the establishment. And also at that time, when that, Codemann was being heard, there was an objection because of the proposed wood burning stove or how for pizza. And ultimately, the amendment was approved. There was no language added that prohibited food, wood burning stoves or kitchens, because the city doesn't regulate them. They're all over the city quite frankly. And so there's no prohibition and the city does not regulate wood burning kitchens. I know the commercial and the residential are two different districts. I am clear on that but I'm just curious about this on page 4. The applicant proposes to operate the AUP from 11 a.m. to 9 p.m. 70s a week which are reduced hours compared to the two existing AUPs. Are they referring to the AUPs on the T House and I don't think those out. I don't know that that's correct. So I think there are hours or shorter during the week for sure. And you know they might be the approval, so the assessor used permit that was permitted for those two establishments in New York, correct, it's for the Ramos House and the T, or the T House and Ramos Cafe. They were allowed to serve up to from 7 a.m. until 10 p.m. So the request for this use was 11 until 9 p.m. But in reality the other two decided to shorten their hours for sure during the week. I think they closed for sure. Correct. They may not be open that length at the time but they're at least allowed to. Thank you for clarifying that. And then also regarding the type of fuel used for the pizza oven, it is intended to be a gas fired oven and that was an emission that could have been included in the staff report. But and I'll let the applicant confirm but that was included in the letter of intent that it's a gas burning oven. Does River Street ranch clothes any days of the week? The the market place or or the River Street Ranch the ranch Not according to their hours online Thank you I have a question just want to make for the record. So we do not have any objection from any neighbors of this property at this time. That is correct. The project was publicly noticed. It will be re-noticed again for the city council meeting, but we have not heard from a adjacent property industry. I believe there were a thousand letters that went out for the project. Including that for the time of the operations. The hours of operation, I do not believe were included in the public notice, but then it did not include the hours of operation within the public notice. Okay do we have any other questions? The commission? Okay. And now I'd like to open the public hearing. Do we have any yellow slips to speak? None. Great. Is there anyone that would like to address the cultural heritage commission by phone? Secretary Stokes? No. That's okay. Great. All right. Do we have any final comments or discussion concerning this item. I would just like to make one comment on page 5 under C. It says that the San Juan Capastron Historical Society building and the River Street marketplace are located immediately across the River Street project site. These immediate adjacent projects also hold similar eateries. The Historical Society has no eateries, has no restaurant, and when we want to have an event which is maybe two, three times a year, we get a special appointment for that. And so I just don't quite understand how we got lumped with the River Street eateries and for the historical society. Anything else? All right. We have concluded the discussion of this item. Could somebody please repeat the motion since it's quite a few different. A.U. please. And different things. I don't think a motion has been made yet. Okay. Thank you, Anna. You know what I did have one more comment before you headed there, but you were too fast for me. I can vote to approve of this project, but I hesitate. Cause of what Ann Rowan brought up with the time. I know that it is right next door and that's why I asked if the neighboring residents have a ad made comment on the time. I would like to know that before I made the decision on approving it with times till 9 o'clock a night or was it 10 o'clock a night? Downtown generally closes down a little earlier, most of the year, but our downtown is getting very, very popular. It may not always be that way. and whether or not there should be an establishment right next door to a residential, it's actually occupying as a residential. I hesitate to say that that's okay without hearing from that resident if it's okay. So that's my only hesitation on over stamping a yes on this. I don't know if anybody else on the commission has that same hesitation. I feel the same way. I would approve everything with the exception of I would advise the city council to reduce the hours to 10 to 4 or 10 to 5. I would agree. Are we able to make an amended motion? I think that's too short. Yeah. Approved staff. Like you can make a a motion to approve staff recommendations. I don't have to say everything with the following amendments. I'd like to discuss that. Please go ahead. Establishment closes at four. The kids have been going until four. Mom and dad are starving. They can really use a little extra sugar. And they probably want to sit down and get off their feet. They need at least to order, eat, relax, reestablish a couple hours. So ending it up for is not realistic. About five. How about seven? They can cross the street to the food court. I don't think sevens are realistic for a neighbor. I do. But we can come up with a compromise, I'm sure. Six. I know. I would go with six, I agree with six, because I do agree. We have the food across the street. But also, I would imagine that while you're at the birthday party you're not waiting to eat until after the birthday party or after your event happens. So I think there is some wiggle room with it's not only starting at 4 p.m. where you would go and get food or a drink. I just try to be fair to both parties. Yeah, no of course. I like six. I would agree on the time the six o'clock that's the rule on Los Real Streetios Street for all the other businesses. Everything closes at 6 to return it to a residential neighbourhood. And so I think that's just in keeping with the hours of the street. I'm good with that. I mean, this is an on-lost rios. This isn't even in the residential district. This is in the commercial district and it's right next to River Street, so I just I Don't agree with that, but I think it you know I Could see having an issue with 9 p.m. But I just I feel like cutting it so short as you know what work I'm not a business owner, so it's not but the zoo is closed. Yeah, and and there is Stephenios' Adobe, and then he has another person living behind him that's very, very close to this area. I know there's lines drawn residential commercial, but practically the effect will be on that woman that rents behind him. And the fact it's really part of the zoo. To me, the zoo closes at four. Why would this place do up until nine? When you've got everything else across the street you can enjoy. And up until a couple of months ago, three months ago I believe, part of this property where the cottage is, it was residential. It was not until the city council approved to amend the border of the commercial district that it become commercial allowing it for automatic right for establishment. So I can say I like to be fair to both residents of their end to the businesses and make a fair judgment. I think the other issue on staying open so late is lighting and with that it hasn't been discussed in the project at all. What kind of lighting is there going to be? You're not going to be, you know, the birthday party is going on and the kids running around because it's very dark there. And if you're going to start putting lighting in, then that's really going to affect most real street. And I wouldn't want to see this come back, you know, in my year or two and the people on those real street can't exist anymore because the lighting from this place has gotten so bright in order to get them to be able to participate late at night. And so I just think it's an area that is not conducive to being used in the dark. I would just add as well that I think the lighting could be disrupted to the animals. I would want to make sure that there habitat is preserved as it could be. I mean, although it's loud, but light is also something to consider. Do we ready for a motion? I'll attempt one. So I move that we go with staff recommendation with the Condition or the advice to the city council that the hours be reduced to 10 to 6 7 days a week Do we have a second I'll second Great I'll just start with Commissioner Ronan. I. Commissioner Seagull. I'm going to have to vote no because I just didn't repose to the alcohol. I will I'm voting I. Commissioner Lopez. I'm going I'm going to vote no because I'm opposed to the time limit. I'm Commissioner Dickinson. I'm going to vote yes, even though I would like it a little longer. But I'm going to vote yes. Great. Motion passes. Now moving on to new business items, Secretary Stokes, please read the title of item E1. Item E1 is the verbal discussion regarding historic preservation month activities for 2025. May we have a staff report please. Yes. Storf preservation month is an annual month in which the cultural heritage commission participates with local nonprofit organizations and historic resource entities in order to create or add elements that can educate the public and assist the public in learning more about history, particularly within San Juan Capitrano. This is about the time that we start discussing our efforts for the upcoming May historic preservation month, and I usually turn it over to the group. However, I will note that two of our members are going to be different next month in which we do plan on having a moving. And so we had identified this to go on to the agenda for tonight, but also kind of asking the group if you want to postpone this until we have the full group with losing two of our members, but two new members involved. We can certainly do that as well. Okay. Why don't we get Commissioner Input? Commissioner Rona, would you like to begin? I'd like to start a short discussion because it takes us a long time to get to it end. So I would just like to begin the discussion knowing that with new members coming on will certainly be open to other ideas as well but they've probably been looking to us for some guidance as to what we've done in the past and such. Yeah. I would agree with that. Commissioner Segal. I have no comment. Commissioner Lopez. I don't have any comment. My, that's right. Great. Okay. Do we have any one from the public that would like to speak on this? Not you? Okay. No, we do not. Perfect. Do we have any, let's see. Okay. All right. Why don't we begin the conversation then? Commissioner Ronan? Okay. So we've done everything from big events in the past way before I even came on when you used to do tours of historic homes and those things just kind of became not available. We lost our preservation manager. We lost our preservation manager that we had in the city at one time as an employee. So it's become quite scaled down. We have tried events and Commissioner Lopez and made a valiant effort to get student essay contests so the kids could write the historical say. And it was fun for the few that came but it was a lot of effort for a small group of people So last year since we give tours every Saturday all throughout the year except holidays with both Two different types of tours and we also have the blast Agula Adobe opened for tours All year round that we would focus our end of efforts on raising visibility to that what we're currently already doing so we're not trying to reinvent the wheel. And just quickly from 2024, the California Preservation Activities, which I think we should post ours for 2025, I forgot last year, but we can post on the whole like what is everybody in California doing? It wasn't really huge things, the Petaluma Historical Library Museum had a series of preservation month events taking place throughout May. Pasadena Heritage had a retirement dinner to recognize one of their people, 30 years of service, maybe we could recognize Jan for all her service, that might be something. Preservation Sacramento gave us a series of walks throughout the historic neighborhoods, so that's what we did and that I think was great. Coronado had a wine in Leccia series, well, the first wine in California was at the mission, we could do something with wine. It was in this mission. It was, our mission. The first wine in California, is that right? Yeah. So we could do something with that. And that's pretty much it. One group Santa Clara had the 3rd annual Preservation Awards night celebrating local historical achievements. So those are just some thoughts and some ideas and I don't think we need to go in great detail but just to start to stir the part. I really think we should recognize Jan as part of it somehow. We can certainly do that at the historicals aside. And I'd be happy I get the tour guides. We're all excited. And I think you won't be here. You're going on to another commission. I was to the Teppet Social Media Gallup, but maybe we have another one coming on board out here. We didn't do as much social media as we could to promote our tours last time. So if we decide to continue on that vein, I would say we'll hopefully get more social media. That's all I have. Commissioner Seval? Well, I think since I'm not gonna be here, I don't think that I should, you know, comment and let the new people have a chance to put in what they want. Thank you. Commissioner Lopez? I mean, I think what Commissioner Ruin said as far as awareness, using more social media, I think, you know, any way we can to be more awareness to the tours that we have, I think, is a great idea. They're great. And they do, I mean, talk about like the perfect thing for preservation, you know, it's to show people. We have so many historical, whether it's a location, whether it's a structure. I mean, in the city, you can't really go much of anywhere without encountering, you know, something and to have these tours that highlight that, I think is really so great. but people more people need to know I don't think people know I just had an example I gave a tour to a group and I always take them into the deep of the trevils at the tracks and their staff know us and let us come in we just watch out for this staff but one woman's lived here in town for 30 years and she said I've eaten in here and I never really looked at it as a train station. So it just raises a lot of awareness. That's funny. Yeah. So I think that's really key. I mean, like you said, we've tried to countless things, you know, but at the end of the day, one activity that is consistently appealing to people is the tours, but again, I just, I don't think enough enough people know I think we need to work on awareness for that. I don't have much to add to that but I have the consensus that you're absolutely right and it's the knowledge, like a knowledge shelter that we have the walking tours. What platforms, what social media platforms would you promote something like this on? Would it be on the cities? Because there's not, I mean, what are the, do you have the numbers? Secretary Stokes on how many actual followers, how much engagement, anything like that you have? I do not have those numbers and I can tell you that anything that's proposed by the Commission just needs to be vetted by our same Andrews office I Believe that if a flyers created or something that could be published in the newspaper with I think that you guys have $500 that you guys could work with That that can then be carried into the city's Publications while it's just after confirming with them. Yeah, and we could put QR codes on them this time Maybe it make it easier for people we have a the city has Facebook and Instagram Is that correct? And that's free right? Yeah, so I mean that's I don't know it just seems like that's so much more widespread We can use the paper. I'm just but I'm saying it's you know, that's a greater we could do a fire resource We could do a five mile boost for not much money to oh Oh yeah. And then the Historical Society and the Friends of the Library, both me help with their social media. We're on both boards, so I know firsthand, but maybe one of our commissioners could take that on as part of a project of we could give them our username and passwords for the two nonprofits and if they could use those as well as our own personal ones. Well, you can do collaborative posts too. So it could be a collaborative post and one and you know, historical stuff or something like that. But if you want to cue our code you're going to need an actual like event URL but you could do that as a Facebook event. So you need like a homepage for where the event information lives. So we could do, we could go into more detail with our new oncoming commissioners who I'm looking at. I think about this. I have the ability to create QR codes if that's helpful, but you're, she's right, we'd have to actually be able to send it to somewhere. And I know I won't be here. I just wanted to share a few things, but I do think it would be lovely to recognize Commissioner Seagulls. Definitely deserved after. And you're going on to parks and rec. Congratulations. Thank you. Okay. Any other thoughts on this? discussion? Okay. We have concluded the discussion of this item and this concludes the reports and updates regarding historic preservation month activities for 2025. Now moving on to unfinished business. There is not any unfinished business at this time, so we can continue. And then finally, staff or comments do any cultural heritage commissioners have any additional comments. I do. This is my someone song after 20 years of being on cultural heritage and it has been just an incredible, incredible time and I encourage anybody that really wants to get involved in the city to get involved with the commissions because it's a wonderful way to know how the city actually works and how hard staff works to get things all done. And it has just been really a pleasure and a joy for me all the 20 years I've been on it and you really do make a difference and you take a lot of pressure off the city council because a lot of times the issues can become very heated and they become heated at the commission level and you can cool people down so that by the time it gets to the city council, they're not quite as agitated as they are because they think they can yell at us a lot easier because we're not elected. And so I think that it is a wonderful way to work within the city and to find out how it goes. And I have enjoyed, as I said, every minute. And I do think, though, that after 20 years, it's time for new people, new blood, and from my perspective, a totally new generation. So anyway, thank you all very much for the privilege of serving and I will see you do. Thank you for your service. Commissioner Lopez or Commissioner Dickinson, do you have any final comments? I just like to commend the PSDA Association for a very successful and historical 65th swallow of the state of the state all day with the PSS Association. I got this wonderful voice to remember it by, but they did a great job. It was a tremendous success, and I look forward to the 66th. I actually do have a little more comment on the historic preservation month. I'm sorry, I know I missed it. Okay, still to share that here. I would recommend the existing commission members take a look at the timeline that's at the great park is something that you might want to explore in the future. We just, we're in the process of updating it, and it has different entries from, I don't know, from the 40s, and now it's going to be through the 2000s. But it's really like, you know, succinct timeline of everything that's happened. We chose to do both nationally, internationally, and then in Irvine, but you could do something just specifically to San Juan, and it really just like painting a timeline currently, so it's like you know this happened on you know, I Don't know January 5th 1995 and it says somebody invaded someone and you know this war begins The medium of timeline for it. It's on it's on cement. It's on an old runway at the great park. So it's just very simple, not expensive, literally using stencils to paint it, public works department. But the second phase of that now, because we're updating it, we already had it. We just put in all the new entries and that's what we're working on right now. But the second phase of that is to make it digital. So next we'll be having QR codes next to all the entries. then you can access a web page that will allow you to learn more information about those different entries which I think could be really useful for some of the history in San Juan. So just a recommendation to have me to share if you guys want to learn more. And it's something that's kind of ongoing and then provides like a living document as well which hopefully doesn't go anywhere. So that's my, but. All right, I think we are finished unless, of course, we have a zirni staff comments, Secretary Stokes. Thank you all for your service and good luck, because I hope that you're retired for sure for sure, and out and relax and good luck in the parks and rec. Thank you. I'm sure I'll see everyone. Yes. All right. So we've concluded our meeting and thank you. Therefore, this meeting is adjourned to Tuesday, April 22nd, 2025 at 4.30pm in the City Council Chamber at the San Juan Community Center, 25925, Camino. De La Vión, San Juan, Capastrano. Thank you.