Good morning ladies and gentlemen welcome to the regular land use beaming of the Board of County Commissioners of Charlotte County Florida for September 10th, 2024. Let the record reflect that all commissioners are present. If it would please join us in an invocation in the Pledge of Allegiance, today presented by Reverend Dr. Brian Stolarsik with the Lutheran Church of the Cross. Good morning. Good morning. Name the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit. Amen. Heavenly Father, I thank you that you have brought us safely to the beginning of this new day and provided a forum for our community to meet and reaffirm our commitment to one another. Through proclamations, awards, citizen input, and commissioner deliberations and decisions that are conducted with full transparency. Yet I am also grateful on the eve of September 11th National Remembrance that your ancient Hebrew people gave us words to sing when fellow human beings take up arms and become our adversaries. As Psalm 55 declares, my companion stretched out his hand against his friends. He violated his covenant. His speech was smooth as butter, yet war was in his heart. His words were softer than oil, yet they were drawn swords. Cast your burden on the Lord, and he will sustain you. He will never permit the righteous to be moved. But you, O God, will cast them down into the pit of destruction. Men of blood and treachery shall not live out half their days, but I will trust in you versus 20 to 23. And so we again place our trust in your hands, O Lord, to a God who did not spare his own son but died, so that his enemies might not die, eternally, may the actions within this chamber today reflect the honor, courage, integrity, and compassion of what is truly great about the American citizens we represent and serve. In Jesus' name I pray, amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you all. Maybe see it? That will go to Mr. Flores for changes to the agenda. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Commissioners, we've got four items on the change memo today. Change number one is to F2. We added the funding agreement for that item. Change number two to L3. Also added the close out annual report. Change number two to R3. Added a presentation to that item. And then item F10, we deleted and we'll bring that back to you at another meeting. Mr. Chair, what's the changes? Second. Motion to second any discussion or questions? Hearing none is there any opposition? Hearing no opposition passes unanimously. Mr. Chairman move the proclamations. Second. Motion to second any opposition? Hearing none that passes unanimously. Good morning. We have five proclamations this morning. The first is for our visual arts center, Artists of the Month. Whereas the visual arts center activities in Charlotte County make a significant contribution to cultural expression in our county, as well as promote the economic vitality of the community, the drive creation, sales tax revenue, and aesthetic enjoyment. And whereas the visual arts center, Charlotte County is charged with the responsibility of developing programs that support all artists performing, musical, and visual. And in January 2024, the Visual Arts Center developed the Artists of the Month program to support and recognize achievement by local artists. And whereas, by providing works of art to be displayed in public locations throughout the county, these artists greatly enhance our opportunity to enjoy their creativity. And the Board of County Commissioners supports the Visual Arts Center in its mission of support and recognition for these local visual artists embodied in the artist of the month program. Now therefore, it be proclaimed that the month of September 2024 shall be known in all of Charlotte County as Nicole Sandling Visual Arts Center artist of the month. I'm passing to lead off to this 10th day of September and we have Nicole. Here she is. And we're very fortunate because we used to have arts and humanities provide art and that group went away and the visual arts center has stepped up so now our halls have art again so we appreciate that. Our second proclamation is regarding school attendance. Whereas the Sun Coast Campaign for Grade-Level Reading is a four county effort in Charlotte, Dissoto-Mannity and Sarasota counties fostering wide community participation to achieve shared aspirations for the success of families and children. And the Patterson Foundation serves the region accelerator for the Sun Coast campaign for grade level reading with county specific work. And whereas data reveals that chronic absenteeism defined as missing 10% or more of school days due to any reason, significantly hinders academic development and research underscores that chronic absenteeism can be effectively addressed through collaborative efforts among school districts, communities, and policy makers. And whereas working together with local schools, families, elected leaders, and other community partners, the Suncoast Campaign for Grade Level Reading is committed to focusing on reducing absenteeism and addressing the factors that cause students to miss school in order to ensure that all children have an equal opportunity to learn, grow, and thrive academically, emotionally, and socially. And whereas the Suncoast Campaign for grade level reading is taking proactive steps to emphasize the importance of regular attendance through September 2024, through initiatives such as the attendance awareness month. And we have Beth Duda from who's the director of the Sun Coast Thank you. Our next proclamation addresses fall prevention. population resulting in significant physical, personal, social, and economic burdens. account for more than 75% of all fractures treated in emergency departments. health prevention and home safety. And whereas cost-effective home modification and community strategies are available to improve injury prevention, Florida State White Falls Prevention Coalition, and State Area We know in all of Charlotte County West Florida crime stoppers month. Whereas Southwest Florida crime stoppers began in 1981 and continues to be a very successful and worthwhile community program. Crime stoppers serve Charlotte, Collier, Hendry Glades and Lee counties and are designed to solve crimes with the help of concerned citizens by offering reward money and complete anonymity for information that assists in bringing criminals face to face with justice. And whereas in 1994, student crime stoppers was implemented in Charlottes and Lee counties, middle and high school, and continues today, operating in exactly the same fashion, student crime stoppers and crime stoppers combined to make South Los Florida a safer place to live. And crime stoppers is a 501C3 organized organization supported by donations of money goods and services. These donations enable Crime Stoppers to replenish their rewards accounts and profile unsolved felony crimes through print, radio, and television media along with billboards, posters, and advertising on lead trans buses. And whereas over the past 43 years, South Osirata crime stoppers, tips have resulted in nearly four million in recovered property and nearly 15.4 million in narcotic seized. Additionally, 21,191 arrests have resulted in the closure of nearly 22,000 cases. And whereas South Osirata crime stoppers are celebrating its 43rd year of service to Southwest Florida and its board members are very proud of the programs accomplished and they look forward to many more years of its partnership and the community. Now therefore be your proclaim that September 2024 shall be known in all of Charlotte County as Southwest Florida crime stoppers month. And we have Trish route. Thank you. And Ron Whalen, to accept. Thank you. Our final proclamation commemorates our national day of remembrance tomorrow, September 11th. Whereas 23 years ago, on September 11th, 2001, America was suddenly and brutally attacked by terrorists and thousands of innocent Americans were killed and injured as a result of three attacks, including the passengers and crew of four aircraft workers in the World Trade Center and in the Pentagon rescue workers and bystanders. And whereas these cowardly acts targeted symbols of American strength and success, and were clearly intended to intimidate the nation and weaken our resolve. And whereas these horrific events affected all Americans, but with courage, America continued on with the regular activities of our lives, terrorism was not allowed to break the spirit of the American people, and in fact, the American spirit was never stronger than after that day. And whereas all citizens of Charlotte County are urged to observe a moment of silence on the 23rd anniversary of September 11th to honor all of those who were lost that day. And now therefore, it be proclaimed as September 11th, 2024, shall be known in all of Charlotte County as Patriot Day and National Day of Remembrance, and all residents are encouraged to celebrate our patriotism by displaying their American flags at half staff in honor of those who lost their lives and their families. And we have various public safety and CCSO staff here to receive this. How do you want to do this, Brian? Come up from the front. Gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, smart role. Good to have you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Or would you say on the line? Yeah, I would say the sun is covered in the sun. It's not the ring of the love, you know the ring of the love. It's the particles of the earth. I don't know how to call it, but to be honest, you know. I'm going to get all these data. Just think of what's back on the path. No, it's a little period since here's data. It's my simple. Yeah, I got it all there. All right, here we go. One, two, three. One, two, three. Thank you. Thank you. Applause Applause Applause Applause Now I'm playing recognition. Yes and now we'll go to employee recognition. Mr. Flores will turn the floor over to you momentarily. Thank you commissioners again for allowing time to recognize our employees. We've got I think 510, 15, 25 years of service. A lot of institutional knowledge and just dedication from those recipients. So after that, we've also got employee of the month for July. So we will turn it over to HR to do the particulars. Thank you. Good morning. We'll start with 10 years of service from Budget and Administrative Services, Francine Lisby. years of service James Wilcox from Public Safety. And celebrating those who are unable to be here this morning with five years of service Salvatore Crapanzano from Public Works, Thomas Falco from Facilities. With 15 years of service Thomas Gillette from utilities and 25 years of service one Carlos Cardenius from public safety thank you right next we go to employee of the month Good morning, Tomy's got community services. It's my honor today to introduce the employee of the month, Mr. Joseph Howard. I'd like to tell you a little bit about Joseph. He started working for us as a recreation specialist in January of 2003. He sat idly by for a few months and as he progressed through his career with us, because in July he was promoted to a program assistant and then later in October was promoted again to a community services coordinator. Most recently in July of this month, we had an opening at the Sports Park with a retirement and Joseph stepped forward and is now the interim recreation supervisor overseeing the operations at the sports park. Pretty repressive progression for us. Really excited for him. A little bit more about Joseph. He is committed to our organization and the community as he led one of our shelters during her cane edelia shelter operations. He is accountable to our team the way he volunteers to help other low work locations for their programs and events. He is accountable to our team, the way he volunteers to help other low work locations for their programs and events. He is very energetic. He shows up every day with a great outlook on life, a smile on his face, and engage with those he works with, and has a proactive approach to problem solving. He's resourceful. He developed an end-of-shift report that allows the team there at the sports park, and then those throughout the rest of our organization to know what is going on and has instilled this sense of leadership in that group. He is supporting the way he has stepped forward at the sports park after we lost several long-term employees to retirement and has helped solidify our partnerships with the Tampa Bay Race. These are the core values of the county, committed, accountable, resourceful, energetic, and supportive, and Joseph displays these on a daily basis. Some things that people have said about Joseph. Joseph is a dependable team member and provides new and resourceful ways to meet the growing needs of our community. Mr. McKecney from the Tampa Bay Ray said, Joseph has some big shoes to fill. He stepped forward and is making sure that the transition has gone smoothly. He's really taken ownership of this role and what comes with it and his communication is great. Charlotte County has extended their hitting streak with having Joseph lead the team baseball pun intended We are so thankful for Joseph to be a member of our team Mr. Joseph power Thank you. All right, next we have the commissioners award for customer service presented today by Commissioner Tassail. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I had the opportunity to meet Sarah's Austria when I first got elected in 2016 and whenever I called over to the legal department, she was always very pleasant, professional when she answered the phone and you can feel her smile on the other end of the line. And to me that epitomizes customer service when you call up and the person on the other end is warm and welcoming and wants to take care of your needs. But as I went out into the community, I realized that Searest was more than just working in the legal department. She was active in the community and she really has an impressive resume and I want to share that with you today on why I chose her. Searest Austria joined the Charlotte County office in November 2004 as a county attorney's assistant bringing 22 plus years of management and administrative support experience. She handles the business operations and management of the office, supervises the legal assistant paralegal team, and provides executive support, legal administrative assistance to the county attorney. She has been a county employee since 1998, having served as assistant to Barbara T. Scott, the previous clerk of the court. Before joining the county, she was the support coordinator for the Intermedic Health Center of Port Charlotte. As a 2012 Charlotte County ambassador, Syris is an active and local community nonprofit organizations. She is a board of director member, board secretary of drug free Charlotte County since 2015 and chair of its annual prevention awards breakfast event. She has served as board of director member of CARE Center for Abuse and Rape Emergency's and is an ambassador for United Way Charlotte County. In 2018, she was appointed by the county administrator to serve as Charlotte County's coordinator of United Ways Annual Fundraiser Campaign, selected to serve in United Ways inaugural campaign cabinet in 2019 and thereafter chosen as co-chair in 2020. Since 2015 she has been an active member of United Ways Community Impact Panel having served twice as co-chair. Serious served as vice chair of Charlotte County Chamber of Commerce Leadership Class of 2017 and led the leadership class of 2018 as chairwoman. She's also an alumni of class secretary of the leadership Charlotte class of 2015. So Serious I just want to say thank you for your service to the county and to the community. Thank you very much. Thank you. Applause. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh yeah. I'm going to help if I get any more. Thank you. Very good. All right. Next we're going to go to a special presentation by Commissioner Constance. It's the NACO Digital Survey Award. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So every year, let's take it out of the box, but every year, NACO has the National Association of Counties has a digital survey. So all the counties that want to participate can fill out a survey about how they're doing with regard to their IT, their information technology, infrastructure, manpower, how they are securing the data, how they are bringing forward programs that use technology to better interact with the folks that we serve. So how does our technology work at making our staff more efficient and how do we get answers to people sooner, how do we fix POTLs quicker, how do we fix drainage faster. So we put all these programs in every year and we have now successfully won for the second year in a row. Last year I think we were 10th place in the 150,000 to 249, 299,999. So between 150 and 250, we were number 10. This year, we're number 8. So I want to have Ben Bailey come up and present him with this award because he's representing that sphere and the fact that we've been able to work with IT and develop programs, especially in community development where a lot of our permitting is now online and it's high tech. And let me tell you, and our chairman will raise his hand and certainly attest to the fact that, you know, 2010 until 2014, there's been an incredible flip of how people in the construction industry deal with the county. Before it was, oh, it's going to be six months before I get a permit. Now you go online, you push a few buttons, and you have a virtual permit, and you can start work. An inspector will be coming, but we want it to become the, instead of the worst place in Florida for folks to work and have employment, the best place. And I think we've achieved that. So, Ben, congratulations. I'll add to that while we're getting pictures. It certainly has taken place. I will tell you of the areas that I work. This is the most efficient building department, community development department that my team interacts with. So congratulations to building construction services under leadership, have been Bayley and his entire team. And Kelly, thank you for everything as well. All right, next we're going to go to the Wellness Awards. Stephanie. She got her hands full. I'm going to be back. Good morning, everyone. My name is Stephanie Phillips and I'm the wellness coordinator. Today, I'm so excited to present to the board three awards. The awards is in regards to our wellness at work program. That's our work site program for them. Please. The first award that I'm actually going to present today is a award that I'm going to present to you. The words is in regards to our wellness at work program. That's our work side program for the employees. The first award that I'm actually going to present today is the Healthiest Employer for Central Florida. This Central Florida award actually pulls all employers from Central Florida all the way down to us in the Southwest. We had national organizations actually apply for the Healthiest Employer. It's a leading trusting award program that recognizes people's first organizations taking proactive steps to approach employee's health. Healthiest Employer program celebrates companies and organizations that are putting the people first and investing in their health of their employees. Applicants are scored on six detailed sections and Charlotte County was one of two municipalities that received this award against private entities such as NASCAR, AAA to say some of those larger award winners. So first today I have the healthiest employer. We received 10th place out of our group. So here is the first one. All right. The second one is in regards to the Sigma Healthy Workforce designation. A sign that has selected Charlotte County as their top tier gold recipient of the healthiest workforce designation. This commitment to improving health and well-being for employees through workplace wellness programs. At Charlotte County employees' health is at our top priority and it is an honor to recognize to be recognized with the Sigma Healthiest Workforce Designation Gold. All right. And lastly, we received Platon, which is their top tier for a national recognition of the Bell Seal for Workplace Mental Health. As you guys all know, the last five years has been no easy feat between COVID, the hurricane and every other curveball that has been thrown at us. The Bell Seal for Workplace Mental Health Certification recognizes employers committed to creating a mentally health workplace. Recipients of the Bell Seal for Workplace, workplace mental health are nationally recognized and meet and or exceed expectations in the workplace standard that promotes positive workers and mental health and well-being, as well as joining communities and leaders committed to advancing the workplace mental health movement. And this is a huge honor to be receiving, especially after so much trial and tribulations. So platinum, Bell Seal recognition. Thank you. Thank you, Stephanie. All right. With that, we will go to public input on agenda items only. Anyone wishing to speak during this portion of the meeting must come forward, state your name for the record, state which agenda item or items you'll be addressing. Remark your limited to three minutes max and shall be addressed to the commission as a body, not to individual members. There are cards over here on this table. So if you want to speak, please fill out a card before you come forward. And the first card I have is Mr. Sam Bessasi speaking to the Paving Program and and Rotunda Bridges F-5 and F-17. Good morning, good morning commissioners and county administrative floors and attorney Miss Norton. I yes I speak here about F-17 is the six bridges that are on the agenda for purchasing. That will start construction soon. We already have four bridges completed and these six hopefully by the end of the year. That'll make 10 of our 18 bridges. We still have eight more to go, plus there's three gas tax bridges, which we still need to understand the schedule on that. The swales in Rotunda have been an issue for over 15 years. We've got a memorandum of understanding with regards to that, and we really need some work done on that. The paving is F5, and we believe that the paving has been delayed because of the bridges, which makes sense. But I think there's a dollar impact starting to hear that, so we'll find that out at the next MSPU meeting on the 26th of this month. That concludes my comments. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Next, I have Dr. Meliann-Mar speaking to our three which is a Bernstork quarter study Good morning Mary Ellen kiss Bernstork quarter coalition resident of Bernstork lakes The Bernstork quarter coalition appreciates that the county is moving forward in planning, organizing and facilitating a community outreach meeting to begin the process of updating the Perinth Store Area Plan, which all of you know we began with a public hearing a year ago this month. I believe it was on September 16th. So we've got taken this long to get to this point to the first step and we're very pleased that county is being responsive to us. We do respectfully ask that the planning process include concerns and issues that were previously identified through earlier Berndster Court of Coalition Community, and also include information or the outcomes of ongoing or recently completed relevant studies, such as the traffic studies that have been done recently and the newly approved hydrology study. As well as any environmental studies that are ongoing. We also ask, and this is a really important one for us, that the cross jurisdictional nature of the plan beat a priority and the end also that the board considers moving the sessions up from the proposed January time frame to a November time frame if it is at all possible. Thank you very much. Thank you. Now my next speaker since I turned the card on Lee Kateroski, can I pronounce that even close? We can close. Lee is also speaking to R3. Good morning. Thank you. I'm a private citizen of... Can you state your name for the record? Oh, I'm sorry. Lee Kudorowski. Thank you. You said it very well. Thank you. Thank you. Yay. It's one of those really neat ones. Anyways, I'm a resident, a 20-year resident of Charlotte County. I live in Bernstor, Village. I've lived there for the 20 years that I've been here in Florida. I have seen tremendous development along Bernstor Road. But I haven't seen any commercial, real commercial development. And I understand that there's a piece of property that the owners of would like to put commercial property commercial there. I, instead of having another residence area. My estimate of how many people are from the Zemel Road to that piece of property is approximately 15,000 people. How many people do we need to support shopping center, a shopping store, and or a medical center? Thank you. Thank you. All right, I have no other cards. Okay. and or a medical center. Thank you. Thank you. All right, I have no other cards. Okay. With that, if anybody wants to speak, please raise your hand. We'll get you a card. Anybody else wishing to speak? Okay, we will move forward then. And I'll just point out we have some committee vacancies and a lot of MSBUs that are looking for folks to participate in so I'll point your attention to that and hopefully we'll fill in some more spots there. We do appreciate those that volunteer their time like Mr. Bessassi who just left. With that we're going to go to the consent agenda and I am going to start with Commissioner Deutsch this morning. Commissioner Tsejo. Nothing sir. Commissioner Constance. Nothing could pull sir. Commissioner Dory. I'm all set sir. Nothing. I have nothing to pull on. Move the consent agenda sir. Second. Comparization yes. Yes sir. I just wanted to comment. Item C3, Mr. Smallwood is in the room here. He is my designated person for planning and zoning, so I appreciate the board support. He's gonna do an amazing job, and I did wanna commend the gentleman that he's replacing. Tom Cormick, yeah. He has done a spectacular job for me for many years, both on planning and zoning, as well as parks and record beaches and shores, and he was also a city councilman. So he's done a fantastic job for this community. And I just wanted to take a moment to recognize his tremendous contributions to Charlotte County. And then also welcome Mr. Smallwood. Because I think he's going to do a great job. He's very committed. So thanks. Very good. OK. Motion to second. It's already opposition. Hearing none. Passes unanimously. And with that, we will go to our regular agenda item, items, and we're going to start with the West Coast and the Navigational District. Do we have... Jeff is here. Jeff is here. Jeff never expected to be going this early. Hey, but Jeff is excited to be able to go this early. Morning. Yeah, you Jeff is excited to be able to go this early. Morning. Yeah, you can go right there. Right there. And push the button. Push the green on the microphone right there. The base. To the right. To the right. The one to the right. There you go. Good morning commissioners. I'm Jeff DeVine, the assistant director of the navigation district. Do you want me to go over, we had our meeting on Friday, go over the kind of the minutes from last meeting and then talk about the term meeting that we're having this Friday? Is that kind of great? That's fine, yeah, just summation. And then I'll see you this Friday. Yeah. We had our regular board meeting on Friday, pretty much the regular order roll call, staff present call order, privilege of allegiance. There were no approval of deletions or additions to the agenda. No public comment, the consent agenda passed. There were no agency comments, the court was not present. Under administrative agenda, we talked a little bit about the budget. Executive Director McBride noted the staff recommends a military to 0.0394 for the final budget. Talked a little bit about some old business, including a Darlic vessel update. The district closed out to FWC grants. One at approximately $59,000 and one at approximately $32,000. And we also put a bid out. On Friday, I said that it was supposed to be seven vessels. By the end of the day, yesterday I had 12 vessels that went up to the bid. We also have two open grant applications with boat U.S. and the National Fish and Wildlife Service, one for $1 million and one for $4.7 million. And that's to help remove derelict vessels that are still high and dry after Hurricane Ian and Adalia. We are also working with the City of Venice and the Corps to repair some damage that was done to the Venice Jettie from Adalia. We repaired it, opened it back up to the public, and then two days later, we had another storm come through and pull off the pavement and some of those rocks and it is now closed again. Mr. Chair, can I? Yes, sir. Jump in. So I'm going to speak to that, but to the one before, those derelict vessels that were, they were in so I'm gonna speak to that but to the one before those derelict vessels that were They were thrown so far inland, you know, they're in dry areas yards and yards in from the from the And a lot of the minterall county that are you know, they may be accessible to sort of pull them through if we if we don't Damage that's the point that they're trying to determine. If we're going to damage mangroves, it may be a very expensive extraction using helicopters to take some of these very large boats up. But hopefully if we're successful to get these grants done, that would be amazing. So I think that was great work to get that staged up. And hopefully that's going to move forward. And yeah, during our meeting, the problem with repairing the genus of the Venice jetty is that it's, they can't find the boulders. They're having a rock problem. So, you know, they're going to do some temporary mitigation, but this is $10 million, possibly 20 million when it all gets done and the Army Corps is getting involved. The Corps is working on a long-term fix to kind of bring it back up to standards. That jetty is nearly 100 years old. It's gone through a couple iterations of what it looked like and re-boldering. But the last major work was done about 30 years ago. Everything else has just been patchwork. We used up the last supply of granite that we had on this last fix. So it's hunting peck. Granite obviously isn't natural in Florida, so any major repair requires an extensive cost of getting it brought in by freight trains. Railroad cars, yeah, it's crazy. So, and limestone works on jetties, but it's not as dense as granite, so you get a nori-ster or storm, and it easily rocks it and rolls it over With those DVs There's a I think 115 is the number that we're still working on from Ian The majority of them are Lee County, but they are two to three hundred yards inland on submerged or on like mangrove islands and stuff So it is gonna be a case by case basis. If we get all 5.7 million, we might be able to get all of them, but once that money is awarded, it will be prioritizing what we can get with the least amount of damage. It is a project that we're working on with Charlotte County, Lee County, FWC, and the aquatic preserve office. So environmental measures are being considered considered when we remove these boats. We also are in process of building our storage building. The floor has just got put in as well as some doors so that should be wrapping up construction soon. And we under the Executive Director's report, we had a kickoff meeting with Kim Lee Horn for our administrative building. So that should be going out to bid shortly. Hopefully, within the next month or two, we'll be putting the RFQ out on the street for that. We have a regional law enforcement meeting plan for October 23rd, which will be law enforcement fires, state FWC. We host that up in Venice with Venice PD and Sarasota County Sheriff's Office. Last year we had about 100 people with 17 plus agencies represented. We have a meeting set for September to talk with Sarasota County about the sale of two potential properties from the district's inventory to the county's conservation or parkland departments. Seagrass stuff working with the Army Corps for a potential Manatee County Dredge project, working with the Coast Guard and County staff up in Manatee County for some channel marker issues, and a channeled Dredge around cuts edge Marina in Manatee County. That's the remainder of the stuff. A couple other little small things. And then that was our regular meeting. And then we had our first public trim notice, trim meeting at 501. And the board adopted a proposed military of 0.0394. And then so this Friday at 501 we will have our second trim meeting where the board will potentially finalize that military at 0.394 or lower and then adopt our final budget for fiscal year 2024-2025 as well. So yeah, and basically the millage is in changing. 0.394, the rollback I think is 0.361 or something, but a hundred thousand dollar home pays about four dollars. And while we, maybe under normal circumstances might have considered decreasing the millage, we've had so many issues between Ian, Adalia, all the storms that have come in and we want to make sure that the reserves for the waterways are strong because we don't know what's coming and this organization has done such a fantastic job under Justin and Jeff and you know they're just they're getting the work done and let's face it this waterfront is our economy that's why people move here that's why anything that happens then here is because people can hop on a boat and get out there and we've got to make sure those waterways are working. So we felt it was appropriate. And I got to say, of the four counties, Shroud County has the least chair. So when Lee and Manatee are saying, yes, step up and charge these rates, they're the ones that are really, you know, they have the biggest financial burden to support this organization. They have a lot of work that gets done in their counties too. So everybody's in favor of that. And I appreciate you being able to be there Friday to take care of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you very much, Chip. Let me see you Friday. All right, next we're going to go to school, fees on, cameras miss loose is going to do that presentation. Just to give a little background on this, this is something that I've been looking at for a while. And part of it was prompted by a resident over in District 3, Limon Bay School's own in particular. And as I start the research more and more, we did recently have a joint meeting between school board representatives, county administration, myself, and law enforcement were there. So I think we're all kind of on the same page, looking to move forward and provide an opportunity to improve safety in some of our school zones that may need some attention. So with that, Ms. Lewis, the floor is yours. Good morning for the record Emily Lewis, Deputy County Administrator. So I'm here to talk to you this morning about House Bill 657, which was approved by the Florida legislature, and duly signed by the governor in 2023. So House Bill 657 authorizes counties and municipalities to use speed detection systems to enforce school zone speed limits for violations in excess of 10 miles per hour over the applicable speed limit when children are going to or from school and during the entirety of the school day. Again, this legislation was effective as of July 1, 2023, and we've been in discussions with the school board and the sheriff's office about the applicability of this in our community as we move forward. The bill authorizes or provides for a hundred dollar penalty for each violation and provides for the distribution of the proceeds to the state and local governments and we'll talk a little bit about what that distribution looks like it further down the presentation. It creates a school crossing guard, yes sir. That's a real quick question. So going back to where you said 10 miles an hour over, apical speed limits when they're going to school. So that would be 15 to 25. So 24 and under. But when the lights are off, then I would say that maybe the school zone is maybe at 30. But still those cameras are active that if somebody's going 10 miles an hour over. We'll get to that. You have options. You have options. I have options. Yeah. Well, that's what the authorization is. Correct. Correct. You can structure your program however you deemed necessary for your community. So we'll talk about that. So again, it provides for that $100 penalty for each violation and provides for the distribution of those proceeds. It creates the school crossing guard recruitment and retention program using proceeds from the penalties that result from the enforcement of this program. It also may provide recruitment and retention stipends to crossing guards at K-12 public schools, including charter schools, or stipends to third parties for the recruitment of new crossing guards. And the program is designed and managed at the discretion of the law enforcement agency for Charlotte County, the Charlotte County Sheriff's Office manages the school crossing guard program for all of our schools. The requirements of the bill requires a county municipality to enact an ordinance regarding the placement or installation of speed detection systems and to make the determination that the location of such systems warrants additional enforcement action that will require a study in each of the school speed zones that we would be enacting this and we'll talk a little bit about what that looks like in the further in the presentation. It requires public meetings regarding contracts and data reported, it requires public meetings regarding contracts and data reported, it requires public meetings regarding contracts and it requires that the data be reported to the Department of High Ways Safety and Motor Vehicles annually. Requires reporting by counties and municipalities that implement the speed detection system programs and school zones and again that annual report to Department of Highway Safety Motor Vehicles. It requires us to provide signage to motorists warning that speed detection systems are in use. It also requires us to do a 30-day public awareness campaign prior to convincing with enforcement of school speed zones with speed detection systems followed by a 30-day warning period. So it's really a 60 day soft launch for this. And it requires the speed detection systems to be installed according to specifications established by the Department of Transportation. The system must perform a self test at least once every 30 days. And it must have independent calibration tests at least once every 12 months. This is where you have options. So the bill authorizes enforcement times to be either 30 minutes before through 30 minutes after the start of a regularly schooled scheduled breakfast program, 30 minutes before through 30 minutes after the start of a regularly scheduled school session, so school day. During the entirety of the regularly scheduled school day and 30 minutes before through 30 minutes after the end of a regularly scheduled school session. So if the board were to determine you only want to enforce this while those speed detection systems are activated while the yellow lights are blinking in a school zone, you have that option to do that. You also have the option to say we want school speed zones enforced throughout the entirety of the school day, whether they're flashing or not. That's at the discretion of this board to determine how you would like that program to roll out. The breakdown of the $100 civil penalty, $20 goes to the state general fund, General Revenue Fund, $3 goes to FDLE's criminal justice standards and training trust fund. And then the remaining $77 is distributed, $12 to the school district for school security and safety initiatives such as student transportation or to improve safety of student walking conditions. $5 to the school crossing guard recruitment and retention fund, that's a separate fund held by the county that can be tapped in. And then $60 is retained by the county for program administration. Let me talk a little bit about how that $60 would be broken down. That would again be at the discretion of the board. We would recommend right now we fund all of the school crossing guards. We would recommend that you consider using the revenue from this to help offset the cost of the school crossing guard program. And then any potential safe walking hazards that we have sidewalks that we have to put in place for the schools. What is the cost of subsidizing the cross-school crossing guard program? I believe we're a little over $2.1 million annually right now on our school crossing guard program. And that's funded through us and not the school district. There's not an actual agreement on how that was put in place. Right now it's funding, it's being funded through the county. The schools back, we were able to find one memo where the school was, schools were asking for additional crossing guards and they agreed to fund a portion of those additional crossing guards, but ultimately the responsibility is of the county or the sheriff. So they take 43% of the tax dollar and they don't fund this. That's a yes. Thank you. Thank you. Just to talk a little bit about the violations, when a speeder is detected as going over 10 miles per hour within the designated zone, they would be sent a notice of violation within 30 days of that violation. That notice must include remedies such as how to pay the penalty, or they will get an affidavit if they want to challenge the validity of their violation. Those violations must be sent first class. It must include a photograph of the vehicle. It must indicate the maximum speed the motor vehicle was traveling within the school zone and the speed limit at the time of the violation. There are a number of vendors out there who are doing this in a number of jurisdictions around. We have again partnered with the Sheriff's Office and the school district to determine that we want to propose this program going forward. Our recommendation would be that all of these vendors do feasibility studies for your jurisdiction. They generally do them free of charge. We would recommend that you open that up, allow all of the vendors to come and give us the data that they see in our school speed zones. And then if you choose to move forward with this program, we would recommend that you bid that out and go through the competitive procurement process to determine which vendor we would like to work for. Work with, they pretty much take care of the implementation of the program. There's no cost to the county. We do get, again, the portion of those violations that come back. The only time we would incur a cost is if there is a challenge to the violation, and then the sheriff's office would have to go through the process of validating the ticket and putting it through their uniform traffic system. Thank you. So you're recommending that these outside companies go ahead and do an assessment. Does that, would that pre-qualify them to bid? According to what we've looked at, no. Okay. So you're asking one or two companies to come in and spend a bunch of money and then open the door for everybody else to bid on it. Does that seem fair to you? We're asking for every company who's interested to. If I can clarify, I have been asked to allow for them to come in and do that. They're wanting to come in and give us what, show what their system is and then provide us the data that they collect during that one time. They're asking to come and do it. Okay. I'm just curious if how many will do it and then you'll have outsiders that didn't spend the money up front, but then they still have the ability to, I'm just asking what the rules are going to be. But the other part of it is not all systems are equal and that's the real part of what we want to dive into is how does the system work, how does a validation process work, which I think we're understanding how that works, where that responsibility is going to fall, but not all the equipment is the same. Some put trailers out and some actually go out and put equipment attached to I think posts. I'm not sure all the details yet, but you don't want trailers sitting on the side of 775 for example and having issues with that. So there's a number of things we would like to look at. Again, we'd like to look at their equipment. We'd like to look at successful areas where they've implemented this and other communities and how that's working. We love the references of the process. I think that's the most important thing that we have to do. We have to do the process of the process. We have to do the process of the process. We have to do the process of the process. We have to do the process of the process. We have to do the process of the process. We have to do the process of the process. We have to do the process of the process. We have to do the process of the process. the expert for how you're putting together the request for proposal as opposed to an RFQ where you're putting out and saying we want to know what your qualifications are. And that's probably a better first step is to get letters of interest and qualifications. Now you can determine how you want to put out your RFP if that's the direction we decide to go as opposed to, hey, we've looked at all this and there's clearly a sole source winner here that we can piggyback off something else, and speed up the process, because instead of taking months and months and months and months to determine, yes, this is a good idea, we want to save children's lives, because not only West County, but I know last year, peace river, a child was hit on a bicycle. It happens. So if we're going to go in that direction, I think I don't want us to say, hey, great, this is a great idea. And then we get hit with public opinion saying, well, guys, you didn't move fast enough and a kid got hurt or there were issues. So we have to be mindful of that. You do have the option to piggyback. There is a number of communities surrounding us that have already gone through this process. Sarasota County is getting ready to adopt their ordinance and put their contract in place next month. We're out of process. Hillsboro is already in process. Manatee County is already in process. There are a number we can piggyback on. This is the first time we've had a discussion about this. So I really wanted feedback from the board. Is this something you want to do first and foremost? If it is, what are the parameters you want in place for the program? So we have a good understanding of that going into it. And then we can work on the purchasing piece of it. OK. Well, I think I still have the floor. So I'm just going to give you real quick. Go ahead. I mean, I've got the timeline. Yeah, I'm, you know, I definitely think this is something we should do. My provisos would be, I don't want any upfront costs. I don't want any carrying costs. In other words, what you've shown us as far as the violations when the money comes in, that's how it's going to be broken up and a lot of it seems to be according to state statutes. So that's actually a good thing because I don't want to be deciding where the dollars go. But yeah, I don't want any upfront costs or, you know, it's just we start out of the box. It doesn't cost us anything. I don't want any carrying costs. And if and when we ever decide in six months or six years, hey, you know what, we're done, this didn't really work out the way we had hoped or we're, you know, because I'm looking at a pre-installation assessment and then a, during six months from now or a year from now, what is the actual improvement in safety? But there may come a time when we say, you know, we're not interested. I don't want to no severing charge. You know, when we're out, we're out. But I definitely think that we need to, you know, dive deeper into what the qualified systems are of the technologies before we go out possibly to RFP. Maybe we don't have to. Maybe we go to RFQ, get more technical information that way. Yeah, and that's what the process is right now. And there are some that do have a bio clause. That's part of finding out what everybody's systems and how they operate in a business model, right? Commissioner Doich. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think the project has some real merit. And there's some plus and minuses for us. And I think there ultimately may be a lot more pluses for us from the point of view of public safety. It makes sense. And it might be interesting on how we sell this to the community because in reality, the faster people drive and the more citations we get, the more money the county will get. So that's an indirect benefit. But I think it is some real benefits here seriously for public safety. And we have to look at that. And one of the things I'd like us to consider, and we didn't discuss this in the one-on-ones, I would want to make sure that once we get through the procedure of selecting a firm to do this, that the information that they gather will be available to our law enforcement because that I know they're getting it, it's a private group doing it, they're going to be mailing this stuff out, but I want to make sure that that information could be available to law enforcement if there's a situation in the community Will that will that will be of assistance to us? And I think that's another big plus that we hadn't talked about in addition to the public safety things So I think it's a good idea and I think we should move forward on it. Emily can you respond to the restrictions? Yeah, so a couple of things I think we should move forward on it. Emily, can you respond to the restrictions? Yeah, so a couple of things. This is not really about generating revenue for the county. That's it. As a secondary benefit. That was said kidding. The goal is to change behaviors. So while you might see some revenue to begin with, the goal is to have that decline because you've actually changed people's behaviors. In terms of the secondary benefit, there are vendors out there who will also co-install. Now you cannot put a speed detection system and a license plate reader. They can't be one and the same, but there are vendors who will install both at no cost to you the speed detection camera and a license plate reader on the same pole and that information is shared with law enforcement. So it does have some real good value to our law enforcement agency as they are doing surveillance in the community. But again, I want to make sure that anything that's unavailable there, if there's a need that would be made available to the sheriff if there's a situation in the neighborhood where it would insist in an investigation of following through that the sheriff should have access to that information. I think that's another plus. Mayor Key partner in this process. Mr. Dory. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, I'm all set. We're moving ahead with this. And as I shared with staff, and my one-on-one yesterday, I think it's going to be critical, though, that we put together a very professional evaluation team, the very onset of this thing, that we'll look at the submissions, but also be the same individuals that if we go RFQ, slash RFP, whatever, they're the same people that are evaluating those proposals when they come in. So this continuity in the evaluation process. And I think the first phase really is an RFQ? Could be an RFQ. Because they're providing, you know, an evaluation and showing us how their systems work. And the vendors will be able to show that. And that's what that team I hope will look at. And then they'll be the same ones once we go to RFP They'll evaluate the proposals when they come in once they sort everything out. Thank you sir Thank mr. Chair. Yeah, I agree with moving ahead with the program and you have a specific Ask in here regarding enforcement times So I want to address that I think would be unfair to the public if we're using Enforcement after the blinking lights go off. You know, because as a driver, I assume when the lights are off, you can go the normal speed limit. So I wouldn't want to have that running all day. I think it should run with the lights. It doesn't change the speed limit when the lights are off, but it would be enforced if they go for 10 miles an hour or 10 miles an hour. Over at speed limit. if they go 10 miles an hour, oh, oh, it's been a little. And I can also tell you that there's not another municipality or county at this point in time that I know of that's not turning them off. They're leading them on from before school to after school. Well, I mean, I don't know, then we get into red light cameras and things like that. I mean, how far do we want to reach? This is entirely at the Board's discretion. Yeah. Our recommendation was certainly while those lights were on. Right. But that, again, is your purview as the regulatory agency? Well, we could run them and the ticketing can be while the lights are on. And then we can gather the information and leave them on, but not necessarily tick it after the lights are off. And then we can determine, we can always change the time. This is also, if I might add just something that you can go through the data gathering process, have these, you know, when we go through the process of getting the vendors to do the data collection for us, this will be a part of that analysis and then you can make a decision at that time if you want to see what the true violation is right now in terms of how many people are speeding around a school and then you can make a decision as a board how you want to move forward from there when we get into the ordinance piece of it. Yeah, and this is truly about changing behavior because the fine is so low compared to what it would be today. If they got somebody today and they could get them for eight over, right? Although I've heard the saying eight is great, but nine your mine. But the point is, is that at some point in time, this has got to be really looked at as changing driving behavior. It's a much less expensive fine to try to get people to come into compliance. There is a pretty big flex area in there, being a tin or over. I think this is a good thing. And I'm here in positive things to move forward. I think we do have options that as we gain more information, we'll be able to adjust to that. Yes, so I just want to make sure we don't have government overreach, you know, where we are ticketing when the lights are on. And, you know, if it's just going to be in front of the school, why not two more blocks down. Those people are just important as the people passing through the school, the residents that live around the school area. Right now, statutorily, you don't have that authorization to do that. It's really just limited to this area. Well, but that's what I'm saying. So, we're picking on people just in that box. We're not picking on the after school. We're asking them to follow the law. Well, one of the lights are off, I mean, sure, but I'm just saying. So they get outside the box and then they don't get a ticket, then they just speed back up again. I'm just saying, the crossing garden schools, I'm kind of curious about that. Because I did get a call from the public school system regarding our role in approving crossing guards that go to the school system. How do other counties do it? Do all of them have the county responsible for the crossing guard system and putting that in place? How does that work? Or are we unique? I don't know that I've dove into that enough to be able to tell you intelligently how other communities handle that. I could do that research for you definitely. It is, it's something that we've just always budgeted. It's, we're just a budget function. It comes with the request of the sheriff and we approve that budget adjustment. Okay, so we're just kind of a, check the box on the budget piece of it. But if we're doing something that normally should be a school function, I'd like to eliminate it. It's just more, it's an additional step we might be able to eliminate because somebody's asking me about the crossing guards, I'm not on the school board. You know, so now I have to figure out our budget adjustment. And all I want to find out is how do other counties handle it? Are they doing the same adjustment or is it done through the school system? Through their budget? Right now it's coming at a request from the SROs because the sheriff does have a role in the safety of the school that is where our function is. We can do that research for you. Thank you, Mr. Constance. Yeah, that's a good question. And I think that's something we can go to FAC and maybe find out through them. This may be something that in most places, it's a share function. That's a really good question. And it does kind of make sense if that's the answer, but let's find out. So, you know, I'm really interested in us going forward with an RFQ, and then I would like to see it brought back so that we can dissect it at a workshop. Can we do that, guys? And then decide how we want to move forward after the RFQ? That's pretty much what the discussion was before. We don't even have to have a walk. We could do it here. We could do it in a board meeting. Okay, well, I just want to make sure that when the RFQ gets done, then where are the next stopping filming? Okay, great. And that's why I thought this is- It's not automatic RFP, we're gonna have both of them. I think my concern was to make sure that the sheriff was on board with us in the direction that we're going because they have to potentially, the way this looks, they would be doing the validation process, which means they have to have somebody. So either we get somebody or they get somebody to do the validation process. From my perspective, it probably works better to be in their hands. And then they can get somebody who's former law enforcement. It doesn't have to be over. Yeah. So, but yeah, I think that's the best way because this is a team approach. And I think that that was the biggest thing that came out of our conversation is whatever is chosen, it needs to work well and integrate well with the systems that we're looking at overall. And if we're doing license plate readers, that may come into play in our conversation. So, Commissioner Dordy? Yeah, I just wanted to weigh in on enforcement times. Yeah, I'm comfortable with waiting until we get some data. You know, we might have certain schools that are more of a problem than others too, that we may want to look at a variable way of handling that. So we'll just see if there could be some hot spots that we may want to look at it all day. And others that we're all comfortable with just when the lights are on. But I think we need to get the data in. In around schools too, with high schools, particularly you have students coming and going, maybe going to doctor's appointments or things. So there's a conversation I think we need to get more in depth about but we don't need to do that today. Not today. I will just add a huge thanks to my friends in the back of the room who are here from both the traffic division and the school resources. I would offer you guys the opportunity if you had anything you wanted to add if you want to come up front and do that, they're good. I will also add the school board. They were sending someone from the transportation department. There's Mr. Harvey and Mr. Tony in the back. They are here as well. So thank you to our friends from the school district. We're also a part of this project. The school board is currently in a board workshop right now where they are discussing school bus arm cameras, which is another piece of legislation that passed. And they're, I think, looking at an implementation of that program as well. So this is more of a comprehensive approach to the safety of our students and our young people in our community. So thank you for your direction. I think I've got a good path forward and we will bring it back as soon as we're ready. Very good. Thank you very much. Thank you, team. And next we're going to go to the Bernstort Area Community Outreach. Mr. Collins coming forward. Morning, gentlemen. How are you this this fine morning? Good. The state. Fantastic. I am here today to discuss the consultant scope. As you recall a few months ago we presented to you our ideas for the public outreach and conjunction with the Bernstorke Coalition as well as other stakeholders. We have reached out to a consultant for a quote. We were able to get a what we feel is a pretty reasonable quote of under $10,000 to conduct the outreach program. Present that to an assembly of elected officials. So I will go into some of that and then I would be happy to answer any questions or anything else you may need. So again on June 11th, the commissioners gave direction to hold public outreach meetings with Bornstor area. We talked about that taking place during season, the months of November through April typically. I believe you folks landed on, and what was conveyed to you was more of a January, late January, early February, time frame, the heart of season. The public meetings would be held at the Charlotte Harbor Event Center, and that a consultant would facilitate the meetings instead of county. The discussion direction on the consultant scope of work was from Johnson's engineering. They would be the ones who would be involved doing the moderating. We were anticipating the folks that would be involved, would be county staff, public works, community development, just giving presentations on our areas of expertise, representatives from the city of Punicorta for their specific areas of expertise, Cape Coral, and Fort Myers as well. And we would then use outreach items such as a minty or those types of phone based items to solicit real-time based on certain questions. And so we want to talk about also the timing of the outreach. So with the scope of services, the first task would be the project team meetings. The consultant will participate in two project team meetings. They may be virtual or in person. The consultant will meet with the county staff and representatives of the Bernstore area coalition to kick off the task specifically to discuss the meeting objectives, responsibilities, and the schedule. We would then have the coordination preparation meeting where the consultant will draft questions for public input based on the anticipated topics and discussion points to be included in the presentations. Again, that will be with the MIRNSTOR area coalition folks. The questions are anticipated to be framed to gain a better understanding of the community concerned and identify future action solutions and to gather public preferences. The consultant will meet with county staff and reps to review and finalize the questions for the public input. Task two would be facilitating the outreach meeting. That meeting would be held two times on the same day, one in the afternoon and one in the evening, looking at like a one to three or two to four time frame and then a four to six or five to seven time frame based on whatever works best for everybody. That would be at the event center. We were proposing January 20, 2025 if you recall the white paper that I that had been transmitted to you folks. The consultant will moderate the meetings and administer the interactive polling and survey questions. And the task three would be a summary. The consultant will summarize the responses to the polling questions and provide a summary report. That summary will be provided in native format and PDF. Essentially, there will be no cleaning up of the document. That way, you see the full data that is presented and the consultant will present the summarized findings and a joint meeting before elected officials of the jurisdictions. So the anticipated schedule is based off of those discussions that we had a few months ago where the project kickoff meetings would begin September, October, time. We would have the coordination and prep meetings November, December. And then we would have the community outreach meetings January, possibly early February, and then the summary of the findings and January, February of 25. So with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions and enjoy the summary of the findings in January, February of 25. So with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions and enjoy the discussion. Thank you, Mr. Column. Mr. Consles. Thank you. Who are these elected officials? That would be based on the discussion that we had in June. That would be you folks. We were the elected officials for the City of Pente Gorda, Lee County and Cape Coral. That was the intent if you recall when we had this discussion previously. You folks had wanted to actually be involved in the outreach meeting sitting up on the dius that was discussed and decided against but that we would bring back the findings before the joint elected officials so that you folks would be able to then give your respective staffs and all the respective staffs direction on what next steps to be taken. So you're basically saying that when we all come together, you're gonna have coordination between multiple commissions and multiple city councils to all be in the room together. That is the goal, sir. We know that that is like hurting cats, but yes, that is the, I mean, have you already picked a date and because it's already September, this is right around the corner. Do you have a date? For the joint mega meeting. No, sir, that would be it. Yes, what? You're going to have a really hard time doing this. Why wasn't this already worked on weeks ago? Like the moment you kind of thought about this. Why weren't you already trying to get dates picked? Because that direction was only given to us at the June 11th meeting when you folks directed us to have the outreach at a certain timeframe and that we would then instead of having you. So three months ago, you had an inkling that a date should be found and you haven't done anything yet. We were engaging the consultant and taking those steps. So $10,000 pays for this whole process? Yes, sir. Okay. So what if we had a second meeting earlier for community outreach? You're already doing your kickoff meeting presently. Move up your coordination prep and do an earlier meeting with the community and do two of them. Why can't we do that? That was not in the scope that would increase the cost we would have to then go out to bid. Under $10,000 leaves that we're under purchasing rules we can utilize purchase order in order to get them under contract. Anything further would actually make it longer. And given the timeframes, we don't know. This was the first we've heard this week, possibly pushing the date to November. All the discussions were having this. And this was directly from the Port of County Commissioners looking for it within the heart of season, which was January, February timeframe. We are bringing forth what was discussed by this body and have moved forward as well. But a workaround could be, we just accelerate this whole process, button it down, have a summary of findings of the first early meeting, and then put it out again for another $10,000, and then we don't have to go to RFP, isn't that correct? If it's the same thing, I believe, under purchasing, there would be issues with that. I'm not having looked at that. The issue there is we've reached out to the consultant. Yesterday, when we heard about the possibly moving it to November, we have not heard back if they would be able to do that accelerated timeframe. As you stated, it is mid-September today, and we do not, or mid-September now, and we would have a very compressed timeframe to get this done, notify people. And even in November, potentially, there's not many folks back. Many of our snowbirds and seasonal resins typically come back after Thanksgiving. So this would end up being between two holidays where people are in flux. We will do whatever is directed, but we have reached out to the consultant to see if that would be possible, but we have not received the response back yet. Okay, thank you. Mr. Flores, I'll come right to you, Jill. Just wanted to also add and clarify, Sean mentioned. At that last discussion in June, we wanted to make sure we heard from what we intended for this outreach meeting to really mimic the, it was our water summit that we had. So it was more staff, the facilitator, just hearing the concerns and I call it when we talked with Mr. Fleming and Dr. Kiss, it's a dynamic list. We, they could think of one or two things that we haven't thought of within the next week before we all meet, we have a meeting next week that we're going to attend. So it seems like it could be an ongoing list. We just add to it what we've done around the hydrology study the wildlife quarter signs they've got some you know commercial interests and other concerns so like said we just want to build on that list thank you thank you thank mr. Chair yeah well we just heard from dr. Kiss and mr. Fleming had called me I don't think either one of them found this process objectionable other than they'd like to see the November date. That's it. So, you know, those are the people that have been spearheading the coalition that I've been in communication with. In terms of, you know, asking staff to start getting dates with other elected officials. Now we did have a lengthy discussion. I think we all recognize that's going to be a heavy lift to do, but it was going to be a process. I think we all understood this, and this is the first step in the process is getting this initial data. So we can, you know, something tangible. Then I think it would be appropriate to start, whether it's survey monkey, whatever, to try to get all the or doodling, why don't they call it, schedule doodling to get, yeah, because I mean we all have different committees, different assignments, we are real busy as commissioners, but I'm sure we'll be able to pull together a date and see who we can get to come to the table. Because, you know, I do agree with some of the statements Dr. Kiss made about, you know, it's a cross jurisdictional on some of these issues. So I think it would be important to get, you know, other officials, you know, especially, you know, specifically staff for sure of the respective communities that would be impacted by the study or who would want to get this data. So yeah, I'm okay with the process. As much as maybe we'd like to push it to November, I think we might be pushing it too soon. I'm not sure if we're gonna have everything ready. And we did talk about maximum participation. And I thought the dates we projected after the new year, what were the dates you had said January, February? Yes, late January, early February, after everyone's back from new years. years, our seasonal residents are pretty settled in for the winter. And that was what where I had thought it was going because in November you've got Thanksgiving people that's a heavy travel day, you know month, then you've got Christmas people are you know busy with their Christmas stuff. So I'm not sure if we're actually going to get maximum participation if we push it to November. You know I want to get maximum participation if we push it to November. You know, I want to get it right, you know, and I don't want to sacrifice trying to shoehorn this in this year and then not get it right. I believe maximum participation would be, you know, after New Years. And I know it's snowboard start going home after Easter in April. So I think that sweet spot is what you just describe. I mean that's my opinion on it. You know I just want to get it right. And if we do it like we did the water summit, I love that. You know you bring your handheld device, your phone, you log on, it's real-time data. If you've never done it, it's an amazing process. You get to see your input up on a big screen immediately as you're putting it into your handheld device. And it's a real good way to get real-time data that we're not going to have to sit on and wait, although the consultant is going to pull it all together in a report after the event. Those are my comments, thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Dordy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, I appreciate the proposal. I agree, Commission to say, oh, I mean, everybody would like to do things a little quicker, but that's unfortunately the restrictions we have on certain things. And to have a quality product, I think this schedule is reasonable. It's a reasonable schedule to get maximum participation. The other facet of this thing, I asked him, I won on one yesterday, but I'm going to ask publicly to Florida's, what's our funding source? Thank you. I was getting ready to get into the queue to just part of before we end the discussion. That's what the board asked for in bank the scope, bring back the funding source. Right now it looks like it would be at Valorum dollars, whether it's capital projects or general fund. And you know, always my caution on use of general fund dollars but right now that is the you know the only funding source that we could come up with. It's a risky precedent. It's a precedent and it's policy regardless of the amount really. We brought up at the last meeting in June as I recall and I recall Mr. Flumming standing at the podium being willing to pass the hat, get some HOA contributions. I think that's extremely important. I have no problem with participation financially, but I would like to see at least a 50% participation from the HOA's down there. So I think we need to throw that back to see. So we have quite honestly, when you look at Manchester Waterway and stuff like that, what are we looking at, setting up an MSTU to have the people pay for their study and so forth. So this was paid for the original area plan was paid for by the private sector. So I'm willing to maybe step into this a little bit, but I really need to get, see if we can get participation from the HOAs down there. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Nolton. I was just going to chime in on the funding precedent that I do believe you would be setting a precedent if you're using general funds for that, but also just to clarify the community outreach meeting as I understand it as stakeholder input. It's not the big joint meeting that you're talking about, but I think that's been made clear. Thank you, Commissioner Doich. Yeah, I'm on board with the process, I think it makes sense. I think the scheduling is excellent because in sort of, it'll be consistent with our maximum traffic that we have here in January. I mean, that's the peak of traffic. You know, we enjoy a little bit less now, but that's our peak traffic season. So I'm on board and I think it makes sense. I also think having MSPU concept involved also makes sense. So we don't break with the traditional way that we've approached this in terms of having the study done. Thank you. I don't really have anything to add. I think the schedule's good. I don't think you're going to see pulling it up into November. There's not a lot that gets done with consultants between just pro-prior than Thanksgiving through the first of the year, having living in that world on a regular basis. So I don't think by waiting till January to do this or missing anything I'll be real honest. I don't think it's gonna speed the process up additionally I am concerned about setting a precedent on funding source because I can tell you there's probably three areas of West County That'll be knocking on the door for money next. There you go. Yeah Just it's out there. So I just want to caution how we move forward on this. Because setting a precedent, it doesn't go away. I do hear that we are good with staying with the current schedule and that we do want to move forward. I would suggest that it's important. This is our project that we keep our folks and make sure that we can be for the most part at this big meeting and then of course the invitation goes out to others. Their staff can be there if other commissioners cannot be there but hopefully at least each board will be able to send one or two commissioners to those meetings and not all five may be interested in attending anyway but does that would be, all my comments on it. So anything else? Go ahead. So the question is then, if you're saying this is going to run around $10,000, 50, 50 is five and five. I mean, is it worth even setting the precedent? Did we reach out to Homeowners Association and say, can you just fund the 10,000 so we don't have this issue? That would be my preference. Right? Yeah. on the Home Association and say, can you just fund the 10,000 so we don't have this issue? That would be my preference. Right? Yeah. So let's see if we can get some feedback from them, understanding the jeopardy. And then, you know, the bigger meeting, which hasn't been scheduled or budgeted yet, that might be something different. And we could actually make it a joint meeting. I'm going to put a few other things on the agenda and maybe walk that out so that it's not setting a precedent. Okay. Mr. Jobs, coming forward. Good morning, Commissioner's卿jeb a system county administrator. Can I ask that maybe we have a little bit of time to have that discussion with the Burtstor Coalition to come up with that funding plan? No, absolutely. That's the Burtstall Coalition. Yes. To come up with that funding plan. No, absolutely. That's the idea. Yeah. OK. We're giving you flexibility with these comments, because this is not a, this is just discussion and direction. Yeah. OK. All right. Thank you. Thank you for clarification. Any further on this item? OK. Very good. Thank you so much. Next we're going to go to the public input on any county-related subject, anyone wishing to address the board during this portion of the meeting? Must state their name for the record remarks on county-related subjects or limited to three minutes, and shall be addressed to the commission as a body, not to individual members, and there is no discussion at this time. So the floor is open to anyone to speak on any county-related subject. Yes. Why do you sign any in? Just state your name. Just state your name for the record please. Mary Ellen Kisbrinst, your corridor coalition, Brinst or Lakes. I think there are a couple of maybe misinterpretations of what the coalition was thinking about in terms of involving the other jurisdictions. Right now we have a meeting with all of our burnt store area representatives from the HRA's POAs coming on Monday. And we have representatives from each one of the four major jurisdictions attending. They are staff members primarily, although there will possibly be some elected officials there. However, when we were talking about bringing together, I think the first time, Jonah and I heard about the proposal to bring together all of the elected officials from the boards of commissioners from Lee and Charlotte and from the city of Cape Coral and Punta Goura, we were a little bit surprised because I don't quite frankly logistically see how you're going to do that. The other thing, you know, and I'm just, so let me go back to this. So our thought had been at the time that what we do is we have those people who are representing that Bernstur area be the ones who would be attending a joint session. And then we as the coalition would advocate before their various commissions or councils in, you know, with respect to any funding requests that would be coming up. At any rate, going back to the September 16 meeting, that meeting we're hoping is that we will derive sufficient information and input from the representatives in order to start the process of informing the type of content that needs to go in to this community outreach session. So you know, and we've been working cross jurisdictionally for several months, actually for over a year at this point in time or more. At any rate, I need to also make a statement, I doubt very seriously, that going after HUA funding is going to happen. Most of, can I continue? Yes, 30 seconds. Most of the HOA's POAs have already established their budgets for 2025, number one. So you're going, you'd be waiting until 2026 at this point in time, which I don't think is acceptable. And this is the first time I've heard any discussion about going back to the HUA's for funding. So I- Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? I have these for the commission. Can you come forward, state your name for the record. Hello, I'm Ms. Dora Johnson and I have these for the board. Thank you. All right. Residents are here to express real concerns about the Harborview Development and Regional Impact Project that is up for rezoning and approval by the board. The May 16, 2024 county staff report for this project states removing Marina usage diminishes staff's general concerns about the development's potential impacts on the peace river and onsite wetlands. While the impacts are lessened, the question is how does such a high impact zoning get approved in the first place? Since 1992, Benderson's request for zoning have been granted without regard to the impacts on the residents of Harbor Heights and deep creek, our precious environment, including wildlife and marine life, and the peace river. We will provide competence of substantial evidence that the Harreview DRI will be detrimental to traffic, the environment, public safety, and public welfare of the surrounding communities. In addition, we will provide evidence of conflicting and inaccurate information that was provided to this board by the developer in seeking the 2010 rezoning. The information presented will bring into question the accuracy and integrity of the submittals for this development, thereby affording the current Board of Directors the golden opportunity to do what is just to request a complete redo of the entire development order, demanding accurate information and committing the necessary forces to thoroughly review the real impacts. We asked the Board to look at the copies provided. Please look at the top chart and note the 2006-2010 bold figures. The 2006 DOE added 106 acres to the development, so it is reasonable that the multifamily units would be increased by 160 units. However, in the 2010 data, the number of the multifamily units increases from 1,180 to 3,614, yet only 139 acres were added to the project. This increase is extreme, irrational, and completely unacceptable. Now we ask the board to look at the second graphic with the acreage chart. It appears the residential density of the development has been grossly misrepresented to the board in the 2010 and most recent submittals. This is evidenced by the master development plan, map age, prepared by the Harborview Development. In checking the math, the total acres, 653, minus 165 for wetland preservation, minus 61 for scrub-j preservation, minus 20 for the on-site pond, minus 16 for the estimated commercial acreage, and minus 66 for the coastal high hazard area acres per section 14 paragraph J of the resolution 2010-083DO. There are only 325 acres remaining for residential development. Thank you. Thank you. Very concise. Thank you. Go ahead. Hello, I'm Dorothy Rand. Based on what the last speaker indicated, the developer did not provide accurate residential density numbers in the submittals for rezoning. This is a text ordinance 2010-071 in resolution 2010-083. So what's considered in land usage when calculating density is that the buildings in green space, streets, how much of the property goes to these incidentals, 15%, 20%, according to the future land use guide, preservation areas are only allowed one dwelling unit per 40 acres. It appears the residential density is greater than 10D use per acre, which exceeds the classification of medium density residential, pushes this development into high density residential. The property is not zoned for that nor should it be. At 11.4 dwelling units per acre, the residential density is 68% higher than what's being shown. County staff and board must recognize that resolution 2010-083 approving the DO was based on substantially inaccurate density information provided by the developer. Therefore, the current rezoning request must be rejected. Concerning public safety and welfare at the June 11, 2024 public hearing, Board Members expressed concerns about the number of residents that would be subjected to storm surge with this development. What is the residential density in the coastal high hazard area proposed to be? What should be allowed? Does the Board know exactly how many dwelling units or what density is being proposed in the hazard areas in the west and east villages? As stated in the floodplain, Hurricane Preparedness section of 2010 development order a maximum of 733 dwelling units shall be permitted in the coastal high hazard area for the west village alone. In that 2010 DO they originally stated there will be a maximum of 157 dwelling units on 65.8 acres of coastal high hazard area on that 106 acre parcel of the east village. Now the developer wants to remove the 157 DU limit on the 106 acres and add a clause that states a maximum of 773 dwelling units shall be permitted in the coastal high hazard area of the East Village. How can the Board approve such a density in an area detrimental to residents' public safety due to flooding and hurricane evacuation? Does the Board know how many acres are classified as coastal high hazard area in Weston East Village and what percent of that acreage? How can the Board approve development orders without clear intent understanding and limitations? Even for a conceptual plan approval, these important numbers should be clearly known to the Board so they can make informed decisions. Lastly, local government development orders, the development order if approved is to include structures or improvements to be placed on the property including locations. If this rules enforced and conceptual structural locations are shown, there's a clear definition of the major features of this development. Thank you. My name is John Porter, part time resident in Herber Heights. Based on the information presented by the last speaker, the board must recognize that the density of this development and the request for 773 DUs in the HCCA for East Village is not conductive to the protecting and safety of residents who will live there. The development rights on this property is damaging at best. Why would the board approve even worse conditions? Resolution 2010 through dash 083, section 18C states pursuant to the section 380.0615C3. Charlotte County agrees that the Harborview Development Order shall not be subject to down zoning, unit density reduction or intensity reduction until September 21st, 2020, unless it can demonstrate that the substantial change changes have occurred in the conditions underlying the approval of this development order or that the development was based on substantially inaccurate information provided by the developer or that the change is clearly established by Charlotte County to be essential to the public health safety or welfare. Seemingly all three of these conditions exist not just one. Therefore the rezoning request must not be permitted. Rather, a redo of the entire development order is warranted. On a separate note, I would like to use my time to talk about the county's comprehensive plan and we'll be referencing Charlotte County 1997 to 2010 Comprehensive Plan, Chapter 1. Future Land Use Element, which is FLEE, and amended January 22nd, 2009, page 1 through 80. Harborview DO Development Order for Resolution 2006-93, had rights for only 1,387 dwelling units on 514 acres and commercial and office medical shown in table one. Even then, the FLUE states that the build out of 1,398 dwelling units, the project will affect the level of services on Harbor View Road and the interchange at 75 there. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Hello my name is Michael Hart. I am also addressing the county's comprehensive plan in Harborview development of regional impact. I will be addressing the concerns about the 2010 to present. In 2010 the Harborview developments, new zoning for the area for the increased the site development to 653 acres in a new DRA application and deal for the property was approved for 3,859 dwelling units. That is nearly three times the increase in residential units. At 2.2 persons per dwelling unit, the total about 8500 people. How can that increase be considered a good decision? How can planning and zoning and the board approve such a ridiculous increase? The project was planned in one phase with a build-out date of December 31, 2018, which thankfully never happened. Critical to consider. The density was not part of the 1997 to 2010 comprehensive plan and was inaccurately reported in ordinance to 2010-071 pages 2 lines 18 and 19 Which states the board has found that approval for petition Z dash 10 0621 T.D.U. Is considered with the 1997 to 2010 Charlotte County comprehensive plan Since there was inaccuracy in the data and it did not align with the comprehensive plan, the board has to write to reject the entire plan. Here is the comprehensive plan. The board has to write. Your goal and opportunity to protect the existing residents in the area. Here is an opportunity to protect the environment, will you? Now the developer is coming back to the county for yet more request to undo the last zoning request of adding a Marina and a canal and to amend the DO and of course to extend the build out date that is now about to expire. Although the developer has not attempted to develop the smallest portion of the property in accordance with 32 years of DOs and the county to keep approving their request why. It is now 14 years past the 2010 deal approval and much has changed regarding increased population and traffic in the harbor heights and deep creek. How can the board approve such an amendment when this much time has passed and Charlotte County has experienced such growth? The project must be re-evaluated. Can you imagine the congestion at that intersection? Will the infrastructure be able to handle such a large increase in density? According to the U.S. Census Bureau in 2020, the population of Harbor Heights was 3,428 and is now reported the population of Deep Creek is 15,500. How much has this area already grown over the last 14 years? To add 8, hundred people to the density of 11.4 du slash per acre is not in accordance with the existing single family homes in the area, which is a requirement of new construction. Use your common sense. Follow your own comprehensive plan for the county. Simply reject the development order amendments. Thank you. Thank you. Hi my name is Joyce Pierce and I've lived in Harbour Heights for 35 years. I will be talking about the extensions to the Harbourview development order. It is well known that this development has been in the work since 1992. Much has changed in 32 years. The development orders have been revised by amendments per various resolutions until 2010, when a new application in development order were required due to a substantial deviation of the development. This new 2010 development order had an effective date of September 21, 2020. In a September 20, 2021 letter, Benderson informed the community development department of its intent to rely on the Florida statute section 252.363. This statute allows for tolling an extension of the expiration of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the state of the development order, which was somehow previously extended to April 28, 2023, and then Ms. Shea O. approved the build-out date extension to February 8, 2025. Are there any further legal extensions for this 2010 development order? What possible cause or reason would the county have to extend this DO to December 31, 2035 as being currently requested by the developer. That would be 25 years. Considering all that is transpired, the developer needs to come back to the county with a new application. In addition, Charlotte County must provide more appropriate notice and opportunity for this to be addressed by the public. This is critical because circumstances change so drastically in just a few years. Furthermore, a more informative conceptual plan with real data is needed. Has the developer complied with the general provision terms of the 2010 development order? Are the by and yield development of regional impact reports on file. If this is a good development order, why is the developer requesting revisions to strike out much of the general provisions in the development order? The developer is not meeting the terms of the development order in regard to completing the project in one phase by meeting the expiration date. Is there any doubt that the developer is requesting a substantial deviation from this development order? As such, shouldn't the developer be required to submit a new application as opposed to an amendment to the existing 14 year old development order? It seems this development plan keeps getting mudier as even the amendments are amended. Does anybody know what's really being proposed to be developed on that land does the developer get to keep going to the county and striking out and adding conditions to the development on a regardless of the harm created. Does the county staff just keep recommending approval of such changes? Thank you ma'am, your time has expired. Next speaker Morning, my name is Chris no it's I live in Harbor Heights and I will be addressing public notification concerns The May 16th 2024 staff report states public notice has been given as required by Charlotte County Code Section 3-9-10DE and F posted notice. Charlotte County Code Section 3-9-10F states, posted notice. The county shall post notice at the subject property not less than 15 days prior to the public hearing at which the application will be heard. The notice shall contain the time date and place of the public hearing and shall state the action being considered. The notice shall be posted on the subject property or at a point visible from the nearest public street. We challenge that residents of both deep creek and harbor heights were grossly uninformed. The only sign notification provided in our area regarding the planning and zoning board public hearing on May 13, 2024 and the board public hearing on June 11th was a tiny orange sign posted 25 feet off the edge of the road on the deep creek entrance sign at the northeast corner of the intersection of Harborview and Rio de Janeiro. The location was at the east end of the proposed North Village property. The development of regional impact consists of at least four distinct parcels of land, and only this one parcel was posted. Nothing was posted at the West or East Village sites. The public hearing sign was unreadable and mostly unnoticeable from the street. The dates and times of the public hearings were filled in with a pen or a fine point marker which was even less legible. This sign was posted outside of the Harbour Heights area and not noticeable to his residents unless they turned north onto Reed Asian Arrow from Harbor View. This being a busy intersection, it was dangerous to even try to read it from a car. One had to pull over onto the grass, get out of the car, and walk over to the sign to read it. Definitely a public endangerment situation. Nevertheless, we pulled over into the grass, walked to the signs we could read it, and took a picture. The public H sign picture was taken two to three feet from the sign and must be zoomed in to read the dates and times. In addition, the sign was at ground level with overgrown grass. This pH signing notification was insufficient and shows a lack of respect and care for the concerns and opinions of our communities. The only reason we look for this sign was because the June board pH was mentioned at the Benderson meeting on May 28th. For comparison, the sign posted for the Benderson Development Meeting was large and readable to passers-by and placed on Harborview Road across from Deep Creek Elementary School in plain sight. Harbor Heights residents could read this sign and were very interested in the May 28th Benderson Meeting as evidenced by attendance at that meeting at the Punta Gorda Library, which was standing room only. Unfortunately, Deep Creek residents had no notification unless they had business in the area most likely seen by those who dropped off or picked up children or grandchildren attending deep creek elementary school as it was posted down by discovery drive. In order to truly notify citizens, the county needs to hold additional public and zoning and board public hearings with more appropriate notifications to the communities that are going to be adversely affected by this proposed development. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker. Good morning. My name is Stephen Hall. I'll be addressing Charlotte 2050 comprehensive plan as it relates to Harborview development. Principal objects and purposes of the Charlotte County Planning and Zoning Board are to advise and inform board of county commissioners in general public and all matters relating to zoning, planning, and future development. Let's talk about capital improvements. According to the 2050 CP, the capital improvements element guides the use of funds invested in public facilities, which contributes to the quality of life and affects the timing and location of growth in the county. To protect the health, safety, and welfare of citizens, state of Florida mandates the local governments established standards, and maintained capacity for seven types of public facilities. These include roads, sanitary, sewer, solid waste drainage, potable water, parks, recreation, public schools, and concurrency management is the system used to achieve and maintain level of service for public facilities. This is implemented through CIE and the land development regulations. Also part of the 2050 planned concurrency management, the CIE goal one is timely development of infrastructure to manage growth and ensure required public facilities are in place when needed. This includes correcting existing deficiencies and to accommodate future growth. The concurrency management system is to be consistent with Florida Statue 163-3180 to ensure issuance of development order is conditioned upon the availability of public facilities and services necessary to serve new development. Consistent with public health and safety sanitary sewer, solid waste, drainage, adequate water supplies and potable water facilities, shall be in place and available to serve new developments no later than the issuance by the county of a certificate of occupancy or its functional equivalent. Is the board able to guarantee that this development along with all the other projects occurring within Charlotte County is in alignment with its 2050 comprehensive plan. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Morning. Patrick, heard Bernstor village. I want to also follow up on what Mary Ellen Kiss was stating about the $10,000 50 or 100% share. Our community keeps our HOA dues very modest. the $10,000 50 or 100% share. Our community keeps our HOA dues very modest and we don't have a big reserve fund. So while I appreciate the precedent concerned that was raised, I think that would be a very hard sell at this time of year since our budget's already set for the coming fiscal year. Workshop's been done. It's gonna be voted on or annual meeting in October. So thank you for your time today. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? Good morning, my name's Larry Rand. I live in Harbor Heights, and I'm expressing concerns about transportation facilities. An existing major deficiency in the Harbor Heights community is the lack of bypass lanes at deep creek elementary school. This problem caused many issues, backups passed the real-designary stoplight sometimes to the interstate. Difficulty for emergency vehicles to get through both entering and leaving the community. Currently, to bypass stacking traffic at the deep creek school, vehicles drive off the road in the grass on the shoulder. This is very destructive and dangerous to children. Expansion of roads is critical. Harborview Road from I-75 to Rio de Janeiro and past the school to describe the drive must be expanded to accommodate the traffic from this development. The area cannot even handle construction traffic necessary to clear the land. As a matter of public welfare and safety, transportation facilities need to be constructed concurrently with the proof of the land. As a matter of public welfare and safety, transportation facilities need to be constructed concurrently with the proof of the land clearing. The roads are seriously worn in the area. There are no shoulders. FDOT will need to upgrade the honor of ramps from 75. Most likely traffic signals will need to be installed to prevent stacking from excessive traffic. The developer has to construct turn lanes into the development areas at the time of construction and must pay impact fees. But those impact fees are only partial payments. Is the county responsible for their remainder of the cost to widen and improve the road to handle increased traffic? It doesn't appear that the county has Harborview East of I-75 in its budget. The level of service on Harborview is currently C, according to the Charlotte County 2023 roadway, LOS data, the 2023 annual average daily traffic load of 11,016 is currently at 51%. According to the March 15, 2023 trip generation analysis by Kimley Horn, the build out of this development were produced in annual average daily traffic load of 52,514. That is five times the current traffic. At what point is the county going to widen the road to four lanes? Are we less area be another mess like at the King's Highway Intersection, which is at 96 percent capacity according to the 2023 LMS data? Have any of these items been considered in a dress? The capital improvements element states the transportation facilities need to serve the new develop shall be on a place or under construction in three years after the county improves a building permit for its function equivalent to the results in traffic generation. The 2010 Harbourview Development Order New is explicit language stating that based on staff transportation assessments, significant project impacts, there is a schedule that identifies for each roadway. The improvements necessary to achieve the adopted level of service, standard and projected buildout. It states constructions listed transportation improvements shall be needed prior to or coincident with the Harborview Development of Regional Impact. This is reasonable. The proposed revisions remove or delete most of the binding commitment stated. If F.Dot on board with making the needed and problems I-75 East, do its limit of responsibility. Thank you. Thank you. We'll be frank, please. Jill Farnsworth, Harbor Heights. I'm expressing concerns about public school and future growth. Deep Creek Elementary School is at capacity. Even though the proposed development is within deep creek elementary school designation, the DO states that children will attend peace river elementary. This puts children in school buses on Harborview Road, which is narrow, curvy, has broken and missing shoulders and is downright dangerous. Well current tax payers see increases on their property taxes for school upgrades and will the developers impact fees cover these costs? Current residents are in need of the commissioner's protection from these costs. Moving on to future growth and specifically impact fees. The county is supposed to make sure the developer pays his fair share of improvement necessary to maintain concurrency. Are the impact fees charged going to be applied to the direct area affected to fund new capacity needs. The 2010 DO is very vague and does not seem detailed enough to enforce the exact needs resulting from the impacts of this development. Full cost disclosure is required. The comprehensive plan states, quote, coasts and revenue sources, Selby presented in a clear and concise manner to ensure that the County Planning and Zoning Board and County Commission understand the full financial impact of their land use decisions, unquote. If this requirement has been met, why wasn't the information disclosed at the June 11th public hearing? The Harborview Development Deals are problematic at best. After hearing the words of previous speakers, I believe it is safe to say that without question, the deal needs to be rejected. If the developer wants to provide accurate information with reasonable density and intensity units for the land, they need to redo the entire development order. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, please. Thank you. Next speaker. Hello. My name is Rebecca Shoel. I'm a 10-year-old owner and resident of Harbor Heights. I'm addressing coastal planning floor to statute 163.3178 coastal management states. Legislature recognizes there is significant interest in the resources of the coastal zone of the state. Further legislature recognizes that in the event of a natural disaster, the state may provide financial assistance to local governments for the reconstructions of roads, sewer systems, and other public facilities. Therefore, is the intent of the legislature that local government comprehensive plans restrict development activities where such activities would damage or destroy coastal resources and that such plans protect human life and limit public expenditures in areas that are subject to destruction by natural disaster. Each coastal management element required by state 163.31776G shall be based on studies, surveys, and data be consistent with coastal resource plans prepared and adopted pursuant to general or special law and contain an analysis of the environmental and socio economic and fiscal impact of development proposed in the future land use plan with required infrastructure to support this development on the natural and historical resources of the coast and the plans and principles to be used to control development To eliminate or mitigate the adverse impacts on coastal wetlands living marine resources barrier islands and colluding beach and dune systems unique wildlife habitat Historical archaeological sites and other fragile coastal resources and analysis of the effects of existing drainage systems and impact of point source and non-point source solution to esterine water quality and the plans and principles including existing state and regional regulatory programs which shall be used to maintain or upgrade water quality while maintaining sufficient quantities of water flow. A component which outlines principles for hazard mitigation and protection human life against effects of natural disaster, including population evacuation, which take into consideration a capability to safely evacuate the density of coastal population proposed in the future land use plan element and the event of an impending natural disaster designation of coastal high hazard areas and critical for mitigation for a comprehensive plan amendment and a coastal high hazard area as defined in subsection 8. A component which outlines principles providing that financial assurances are made that required public facilities will be in place to meet the demand imposed by the completed development. Such public facilities will be scheduled for phase completion and coincide with demands generated by the development. An identification of regulatory management techniques that the local government plans to adopt or has adopted in order to mitigate the threat to human life and to control proposed development and order protect coastal environment and given consideration to cumulative impacts. As a developer investigated these impacts due to the proposed development, how can the county approve such a high-density development without fully understanding its impacts to our pressure coastal waters. Many more impacts environment and wildlife from this proposed development that will need to be researched with the regulatory agencies that monitor and permit developments in sensitive areas. Any other speakers? Hello, my name is Eileen Wakefield and I'm concerned with the County Sheriff capacity deficiencies There is currently very little criminal activity or domestic issues in the Harbour Heights area With the proposed development including higher density apartments as well as hotels and businesses Security and safety of the existing newly arriving residents is a major concern. Does Charlotte County have and will they provide the necessary forces to patrol and enforce security and safety to not only the newly developed area but also to the expected increase in crime in the harbor heights, Deep Creek, and surrounding areas. Does it make sense to build this so close to the Deep Creek Elementary School? With the significant increase in the number of people, parking areas required for cars, traffic businesses, and a hotel, common sense dictates heat there will be a significant increase in theft. Vandalism, domestic issues, fires, violence, drug exposure, and other criminal activity. There is currently an abundance of other development in construction in Charlotte County, including on Bert's store road, Babcock Ranch, Highway 17, Taylor Road, and Gillens Loop Road to name a few. Are the county forces prepared to address these expected issues without additional tax increase to the current residents? According to the Daily Sun article of July 23rd, 2024, in an interview with Sheriff Promo, he stated that he had 36 vacancies for law enforcement jobs With an existing shortage how will there be effective numbers of law enforcement offers to handle the Increase in officers to handle increase in crime Thank you. Thank you. Any other speakers? Good morning. I'm Zachary from 20-year resident in the Coast Guard veteran. I'm concerned about the environmental ramifications of the proposed heart-review development and the multi-generational impacts it will have. Increasing developments on an already strained ecosystem isn't wise, and we are seeing elsewhere throughout the state. I'm looking to call this slice of Charlotte County home for decades to come like many others in my generation, and I foresee a cataclysmic error chain that we will inherit. A large straw to harbor heights in the surrounding environment are the abundant wetlands and estuaries for their natural beauty and plethora of wildlife. Wetlands make up 25% of the property you'd be developed. They filter and remove pollutants as well as sediments from runoff. They also remove excessive nutrients, all to help protect the fragile nature of the peace river and the shallower estuary systems. The mangroves and marshes are essential. Moderating flooding and protecting properties from storms while also serving as homes for migratory birds. To say that the consequences of developing the land will be minimal or even mitigated is reckless in a want and disregard of the peace frivores already strained resources. It is a long standing fact that the peace frivores are one of the most endangered in the United States, and we have witnessed the environment and fish resuffer from more development. The small toothed sawfish is one of the species that breeds downstream of the proposed development and is on the federal endangered list. Manatees are abundant in the peace frivores as well as blue crab and recreational fish, such as snook and Tarpen. The prehistoric horse you craft breeding ground is being destroyed. Inevitably water runoff from long-haired products pesticides and even septic tanks makes its way into the peace river and the downstream impacts are sweeping. Charlotte County won't remain a fishing or environmental paradise for long and we are already seeing warning signs on a seasonal basis. The Florida scrub jays, the state's only endemic bird species and was federally listed as threatened on June 3, 1987. The birds have a social structure that involves cooperative breeding and they live in groups ranging from a mated pair to large extended families. Florida scrub jays are non-migratory and sedentary. The primary cause for the birds to climb is the lost, degradation, and fragmentation of habitat because of residential and commercial development. The county is a permit from the USFWS and is responsible for making sure land takes are done properly and managed. Development of the property in question will only destroy more of their habitat and I call into question if they will be here for future generations. Go for tortoises, a bound in harbor heights, and are on the state's starting list. One environmental report for this harbor view development said they are estimated over 500 burrows to be on the property, and it is often fruitless to try and relocate them. There's also a documented bald eagle nest on the property. This summer alone several people have seen two bald eagles at one time purchased on top of the new cell tower behind shenanigans sports bar on Brock Point Drive. All of these species are an important part of this area's culture and way of life, and the board is supposed to protect that way of life. Legacy planning is a large part of my identity, and I want my grandchildren's grandchildren to enjoy the same natural beauty I can presently. Approving the developer's DO threatens both the wildlife and the people. Will your actions today support legacy protection or just perpetuate problems? Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, please, I've asked three times. Ma'am, please come forward. Hello. May it please come forward. Hello, my name is Patricia DeVice. I will address the important factor as to why the existing residents purchased homes in this area, the community. To begin with, we have very real concerns. The majority of the area east of the proposed east village is single family residential development. The area north and east of the proposed north village is a single family residential development and deep creek elementary school. At the northwest tip of the 1284 unit apartment complex is a three-story construction averaging about 22 units per building. The area west of the West Village are mostly single-family residential developments. To the Northwest across Harborview Road is Charlotte County Utilities Department. There is no existing commercial development adjacent to any of the proposed villages. Harbor Heights and Deep Peat communities are known for their community activities. The civil associations of both communities plan many neighborhood social events. For example, Fourth of July, cookout, poker runs, golf cart, Christmas parade, super bowl celebrations, Thanksgiving dinners, plus at least 15 other year round events. In addition, Harbor Heights Park and Pickleball carts are very popular. Our community has a small town feel with walkers and bikers who stop and talk to each other along the side of the road just to catch up or check in with each other. When someone in our community has been hospitalized or needs our help the community steps in and provides food and necessity. Harbor Heights is all about community. We have built an awesome quality of life and are committed to the land and the neighborhood of the people. Please do not ruin this rare and amazing quality of life by inundating our neighborhood with such a huge and reckless development to ask the board to evaluate all of the data that has been presented. We implore the board to reject rezoning Harborview development and amend the DO of Harborview development as it's currently presented. We respectfully request the board to reduce the density allowed on the property to a more reasonable and accurate number that would fit with our surrounding communities and will minimize the impact of our communities, water bodies, wildlife, environment along with the inadequate roads. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Any other speakers? Good morning. My name is Patrick Bouts and since the last time I had the opportunity to address the board, did some checking. One of the things that we visited about having to do with this development on Harborview was traffic control. So following up with my neighbor, Mr. Rand, if you could see this picture, it was just happened to be by happenstance. There was a local ambulance with lights and siren going eastbound on Harborview. And it was in front of deep creek school. And I noticed all these cars diving for the shoulder. Excuse me, diving for the shoulder. So I took it upon myself. I got a hold of the shoulder, excuse me, diving for the shoulder. So I took it upon myself. I got a hold of the fire department, some of their top folks, but it was an off-the-record conversation. And I asked them. I said, if you guys had trouble with this, and he said, you know, this gentleman said, you know, it's not uncommon, but that deep creek and harbor view is one of the worst. So what happened with this ambulance, the lights were on and they ended up turning off the lights. Just to make it relatable. All the folks here are made up of medical people, business people, union people, educators, moms, dads. And when you're not in our company, we're talking about how can we help you do your job? So just hearing, I wasn't involved in one of the meetings the other day, When you're not in our company, we're talking about how can we help you do your job? So just hearing I wasn't involved in one of the meetings the other day, but it's nice when you have facts on your side. Just know that everybody that has presented today is objective as are you. Is there anything that we can do to help the board? Unfortunately, from my standpoint, it's the infrastructure. Mr. Rand brought up, and it was one of the things that I wanted to, the off ramp. It's just everything over there in no way can facilitate a development of the size. There's some real issues over there. They are fixable, but thank you for your time. Thank you, sir. Anyone else wants to speak to speak? All right, let's see. No one else rising. Thank you all for your input today. With that, we'll go to comments. Mr. Forrest. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe it fees in the room, Mr. Lyos, are paying on. Yes, sir. I would like to speak, sir. If you'd like to speak, please come up. I've asked. Thank you. Yes, sir. You're certainly entitled. My name is Henry Boehm. I am thinking that this whole development boils down to one thing, money. The developed for wants to believe that people will flock to the north from the north and buy or rent these properties that they're going to build. What if it doesn't happen? Venderson will go broke like many other big builders in the country are doing right now and leave us in a mess. Mortar rates have fallen from 7.5% to 6.5% yet the buyer demand is the lowest in six months and June we had 383,895 homes for sale. Mortar's applications are down by 44%. Property tax increases are up 10% to 20% blackstone is liquidating properties in Florida. Four sale signs are everywhere. Punta Gorda is 31% overvalued right now. Zillow says 80% of the sailors' sellers are forced sales. Ones can't afford to stay here in Florida. Insurance rates are skyrocketing. We're in a recession. People don't have any money. How big are these residents of the unit's gonna be? Are they gonna be these binkwill of things? How much do they cost? Are they gonna be binkwill of these multi-family units? Gonna be H.O.A.'s? Lately, it's cheaper to rent them than to buy. I'm sure that if this project succeeds will become a high rental community, what if with the proposed rental rights laws taking effect we're going to have real problems? I don't want us to see this area flattened, destroyed, and abandoned. I realize that Benderson has its great-with his great financial resources can probably overcome most of the problems like water electricity, sewer, animal relocation, and drainage, and the streets. But recession is not the time to reimbark on such an experiment. I hope Benderson will abandon this project before financial reality hits them and is left uncompleared. If they don't, I hope you will reject this development. Thank you. Anyone else? All right, Mr. Flores, back to you, sir. Thank you. I did see him come into the room. Our public works director, Mr. Elias, wanted to give you an update on, I believe, drainage and mosquito control efforts. So if you can allow him a couple of minutes. Thanks, John. Good morning, commissioners, for the record, John Elias, public works director. We all live here, so we're in our typical Florida summer pattern. I will say this last couple of years specifically this one the rains do seem a little bit more extreme than on the typical summer afternoon showers. So I would love to take this opportunity just to kind of convey to the public and anybody listening. What our drainage system again was designed for and what ends up happening with these extreme summer events. So again, right now our water table is completely full. So that's one thing that's kind of working against us a lot of times the water can kind of soak into the ground a little bit but when the water when the ground is saturated it is right now there's no more absorption It's pretty much everything's running off. So with that said, I'm sure Commissioner Dordi could probably explain this more technically, but I'm gonna try to put it in layman's terms. Our entire drainage system in Charlotte County was designed essentially for a five-year storm, which essentially means approximately, you could get five inches of rain over a 24 hour period and it could handle it up to that. With that said, on any given day and we have the weather stations throughout the county now to kind of monitor this, it's not uncommon that we can get a two-inch, four-inch, six inches of rain in an hour. And our system is not designed to handle that. Now I will say some areas handle it better than others. But like I've said previously at other updates that when you have our coastal low-lying areas that are especially tidally influenced, you're all being Charlotte Harbor, Golf Cove, South Golf Cove, Charlotte Harbor I already mentioned a lot of the areas in Ponegrores, Salona, those areas. When we get hit with a storm, that intense. And again, sometimes it's super isolated. So people say it's just my drainage. Well, the storm was really isolated to like a three or four block area where we got those intense showers. So I'll say what I've said previously in past updates. Anybody that feels that their private property, meaning the water is getting ready to come in your home Please reach out to us. We'll have people out there 24 hours a day to respond to that It's in in those cases what's typically happened is a garbage can or some other Drainage system has been blocked for some reason and we'll get out there and unblock it That's that does happen But for the most part these systems where you're seeing water up on the road for an hour or two after a rain event, that's just the time of year that we're in right now. And again, I ask people to be patient. And the thing that I also tell my team to be patient with the public is because we have so many new people here that aren't accustomed to these types of rains that we're getting here. So we have to kind of continually educate the public on what our systems design to do and how our drainage systems works with the open soil system. The other thing I was going to provide, does there any questions on the drainage stuff? I would just note that 1996 was worse than this. Yeah. I think it was 96. I want to say it's 95 or 96. The floods that we had that that that was that was a biblical flooding that we had here. 500 year rain events, a couple hundred year rain events. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But just for the every day, I I'm even noticing other people in Florida are like the Florida rains extra this year. So any other stuff on the drainage because I want to do a brief update on the mosquito control. So our mosquito control team, of course, like I tell everyone, this is our super busy season when it comes to maintenance and operations and the mosquito control division. I had provided an update a couple months ago that we had applied 40,000 pounds of granular larva side that's kind of like a timelease thing that will sit there and hurt until it needs to be active and then it becomes active. It's a naturally occurring substance in the environment, so it's safe in that regard. But we feel that's really helped keep the numbers low this year. We kind of expected numbers higher than what we're seeing. That's not to say that they won't blow up. But the other thing that's helped us is the salt flats have been flooded with water, which actually helps us. I would want to put this information out there that just to the north of the Sarasota County as of September 6 is under a West Nile mosquito-borne illness advisory. We're working closely with our health department and treating areas adjacent to where these areas are in proximity to us. We're monitoring those areas closely and treating them as we should. Let me just get my glass there a couple more things here. The other thing I would say is that we're responding to our surveillance with both ground and aerial applications. But sometimes that does get impacted. So if you see a scheduled spray and then you don't you don't hear them spraying, sometimes they can't if they're if there's a rain event. So that's where in that pattern right now. In fact, they're saying tonight we could probably expect rain overnight. I know in my house we got rain last night as well. So with that, I'll try to respond to any questions you might have. Anybody have anything? Yes sir. you might have. Anybody have anything? John, thank you. Thank you. Just for it. Just one more item, just for the board's awareness, we'll process this administratively. I'd share it with you all, the memo and invoice we got from FAC floor dissociation of counties for upcoming dues. I know we're all active and we've got some fact activities next week so we can proudly say we're currently and will be members in good standing We'll take care of that very good. Thank you Mr. Nolte just one thing for the viewing public The Harborview application for which you just heard some residents speak on was withdrawn We attempted to get the word out to the public through social media and other avenues But apparently some people didn't warn aware of that. So just for the record. Thank you. Mr. Deutsch, it's not here. We'll come back to him. Who should I say? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, I was going to thank you, Mr. Nolton. I was going to say that it we vote on it today, we won't be voting on it. It was withdrawn. And I don't believe there's any time and that they said they'd bring it back. I'm getting a head nod from Sean Collins. So we don't know when it's coming back. It could be withdrawn indefinitely as far as we know right now. Okay. So hopefully I see three people I think still here from the morning session or maybe four, maybe you can get the ward out to your community there in Harbor Heights that application's not on the agenda today and it's been withdrawn. So I'll have things, Mr. Chair. Just add to that, is that the importance of people actually coming to the hearing, all that that was said this morning is totally admissible. It needs to be done under oath during the hearing, so it's important that people understand the process as well, so I just wanted to share that real quick. Commissioner Constance. Thank you, sir. Thank you. But we would have shared that. So how did it been on today? You would have said to them, you have every opportunity to speak at this moment. But it won't count, You got to stay and come back at two o'clock, and then you'll have five minutes. I knew it wasn't on, so I was not going to go. No, I appreciate that. And I was going to say, frankly, if it were coming up in two weeks or next month or whatever, I would task Mr. Collin and through our administrator to say, I hope you were taking notes, because every one of those things that was brought up vis-a-vis the comp plan, the statutes, all those things, I would expect you to transcribe those questions and have written answers and get it all back to us because to me, a lot of that sounded on the level and I would want to know that we have a response or it wasn't something that was because there was a lot of stuff they were all over the place. And we are blind without guidance from staff who obviously this is what you do every single day and we appreciate the fact that you can be there to kind of guide us through to what the truth is. So I appreciate that. There were a couple of interesting things brought up though. That deep creek elementary situation is pretty dire. I mean, when they're, when they have school pickup, it's a nightmare. Yes sir. We just had a conversation about that at our little meeting. We were talking about cameras about those schools and there needs to be and the school system is looking at how to better address that. The people are lining up to drop kids off and pick them up and it is not a safe situation. Right. And so we, you know, it's obviously it starts with the two gentlemen that were in the back of the room from the school transportation. We really need for them to quickly do a deep dive and look at the, it's probably two or three schools that are mostly at risk. A lot of them are in off streets that it's not a huge deal and people go slow and they realize there's counter flow traffic opposite on opposite to what it should be, but people are just trying to get around because they're not picking up, but there have to be proper separations and intersections and so forth. But there are certain ones where you can't get around and once you're off the shoulder, you are down six or eight feet. I mean, it's a precipice. So that's one of the ones that I think we need to look into and I don't know what that looks like to try to fix for safety reasons. You know, I think that's the big issue. So I would like us to be looking into that. I spoke to administration, but I want to bring this out again. And I appreciate the fact that Mr. Flores and Tommy Scott are looking into this. But for two years, the flagpole at the South County Regional Baseball, little league area, has been pushed at an angle. And it is inappropriate to raise a flag on a flagpole that is not completely upright. We're approaching two years. They are now starting their fall ball season. And I got a message from a constituent, and I totally agree. I mean, the fact that FEMA is getting in the way of something as small as that. So I have asked what can be done on our dime. I don't know how much it's going to cost, but it may have to get pulled out. But quite frankly, I would like a letter, and I would think I was going to write one myself, but maybe a letter from this Board of County Commissioners to Representative Stu be saying, does this sound right to you? And I know that's a very minor issue, but I really think, then I hate this pun, but Greg could run this up the flag pole with FEMA and say, guys, there are certain things. We're trying to display the American flag, and these kids have to hold a flag up themselves and sing the Star Spangled Banner. That's just, I mean, I get it, a year after the storm but it's two years after the storm. There are certain things that as Americans, we take pride in flying our flag and this is one of those things and I was there last year at the close of the season. I said I'll pass it on to administration and when I spoke to Hector this past week he said I didn't realize that wasn't fixed yet. So there's a lot of things going on in the county. He's had a lot of things to deal with. I don't expect that to be one of his top priorities, but I'm raising it, and I would like us to write a letter to Greg and just say, hey, just so you know how great FEMA is doing, this is endemic. You know, we're getting some money. I don't want to throw them completely under the bus. But you know, more disasters are coming. Their pipeline is not going to get shorter. You know, they're cute. So I really think that we need to just poke it a little bit. And that would be one of the things I would request. So much to say. That answer. Yeah. So the flagpole to your point is indicative of FEMA and what we've been going through with the bridge situation now We're gonna in negotiations now they rejected that and you know, it's been a nightmare And I don't know if that was a pun you intended when you talked about the flagpole raising the issue with mr. Stubi. I don't have a problem writing a letter But in the letter we should recap all the other FEMA projects that we're still waiting on so we can get moving. And I don't know if it's part of their strategy which probably is to frustrate counties to the point where we go into our own pockets and start fixing these things and pull them off the list. I'm not sure it's model. Yeah exactly. And I think that's a great idea is that the you know the flagpole is literally the straw that broke the camel's back, and that's why we're writing you this letter. So frame it that way. But then see attachment A, and let's have staff put together the new summary of everything else that's going on. So he's got a short letter that just explains where we're at, and then all the backup material that his staff can weigh through. And this board did talk about the stacking problem on Harborview Road, and we did actually talk to staff about getting with the school to say, you need to figure out when you do a school, where the stacking is gonna be for parent pickup. It's a nightmare. I don't have to pick up kids anymore. My last one drives now, but for years, it's been a nightmare and it is a traffic hazard. You've got people trying to pass on a two lane road, the stacking and there's another car coming this way. It's a mess and there's horn beeping. It's really frustrating. It really is. The other thing is if I heard them correctly at our meeting, it went from one square to two square miles. So that's why you have kids, they're not walking two miles. Parents are going to have to pick them up. I mean, a mile's a lot for you. It's particularly young kids. Well, I know if they all show up at the same time, you've got almost every parent in line and they haven't even started releasing the children. It's two miles is walking, right? Two miles or less. Yeah, walk. But that's why you get all these pickups. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, but there's people outside that that pick up their kids. True. They don't want to take the bus to, yeah, they just people don't want to put their kids on buses. And I guess maybe, you know, I wouldn't want to leave our senators out. I would send the same letter to Ruby, oh, it's got to, yes. So can we get consensus? Yeah, we have to answer your question. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Dordy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just trying to be helpful, Dr. Kiz. If you want to look at the video from June 11th, under citizen input, agenda items, the financial participation was, like, the discussion began there and then it followed up when we got actually into the agenda item. I don't know if you recall that or not, but it was brought up. Now, it wasn't specifically mentioned to use HOA funds. I mean, it was just private dollars somehow past the hat or something maybe down there. So, I made a misspoke here earlier about using HOA funds, so I apologize for that. But I do think there was an intent to try to get some money privately. And that really, I think is going to be a necessity on that particular issue. So that's about all I had. Other than I just want to let you all know, last Friday I attended the County Coalition meeting, 16 counties, the 16 counties that comprise the South Florida Water Management District, the coalition for responsible management of Lake Okeechobee and its associated estuaries. Carson Turner is no longer running for office. He's been the chairman for a dozen years at least. And, anyways, they elected me as chairman. So I'll be the chairman of that coalition. It's a great opportunity to build relationships with South Florida District, as well as the Corps of Engineers. And I'm looking really forward to it. It's in my will house. And I'm learning more and more every year how we really have three rivers that affect us, significantly environmentally, on the west coast of Florida. It's not only in my eye, I can't the peace, but it's also the Cluesa Hatchee. And the nutrients coming down the Cluesa Hatchee during major flows are significant and have shown now statistically to increase the length of time, the duration of red tide when we had red tide in the past. We have a presentation on that over Okachobi in the end of November. But anyways, I just want to share that. Thank you. Sorry, two more items. Okay. Friday is comedy for cause. At the twisted fork, I'll be directing one of our fellow commissioners is in the cast. I highly recommend you come and check it out. It's raising funds for a really good cause. It's Charlotte Clayter's comedy, children on stage, and the Imagination Library. So there's still tickets available for folks that want to come. And then the other thing is I did want to let you know, I will be attending that Bernstor quarter coalition on behalf of Charlotte County. It's my district and I was invited. So I'm going to go down there. I will report back. Thank you, Raymond. Thank you. Can I show Deutsche? Just to note about two quick items. One was less Saturday. Finally, after just about two years of American leech and post 110, officially reopened after the hurricane, this deal dealing with the law. Wait, a lot of other people are with insurance issues. But somewhere between 250 and 300 plus people showed up and we had a ribbon-gunning program. And also, a interest tomorrow morning at 830, at a sure point, there will be a memorial celebration of 9-11. I'll be reading the proclamation. Everyone's obviously welcome to attend. Thank you. Mr. Chair, I forgot one thing. Really important. I wanted to congratulate you on your victory and the election and the primary. Not only did you win the primary since you're unopposed, you know, it's over for you. So I wanted to mention that for another four years of service to Charlotte County residents, a well-deserved victory. Thank you. Thanks, sir. Appreciate it. And likewise to you, I think the right-end process is going to be much. Yeah. I got to wait till November. I know. But you're all set. I'm all set. Yeah. I don't have anything further, so we're going to recess and re-agirne, reconvene our meeting for September 10th. Let the record reflect all commissioners are present, and we're going to start off with a brief economic development update from our interim director, K. Tracey. K. Thank you, commissioners. Good afternoon. Just a real brief update. We are well on our way to hiring new people. We have one offer out and accepted, and we have four more interviews to go this week and we're going to be reposting the business recruitment manager position. We just didn't get enough flow and so that's the brief update. Everything else is business as usual. Working on business retention and expansion, recruit business recruitment and working with our educators to help our with our skilled workforce. And that's just about it. Very good. Any questions? Thank you very much. We appreciate it. All right. With that, we're going to go into our land use agenda and our first item of business is public input on the land use consent agenda items only. And before I even open it up for that, I'm gonna go to Mr. Colinon, as we have had a request that came in this morning to remove one of the items, Mr. Colinon. Yes sir, thank you commissioner. Item UA4 came in during this morning session was requested to be removed. That is the recording of the turn Lee for, turn Lee phase one resolution. They are coming in for a modification to the PD and so they've decided to just roll everything into that modification and it will be addressed. The skirmners there will be addressed at that time. Very good. Appreciate that. So when the time comes and the motion is made, it will not include you a four. And with that anyone wishing to speak on any of the consent agenda, land you, please come forward state your name for the record and you'll have three minutes. Anyone wishing to speak on the consent agenda items only? Sir, is this a consent agenda item? Yes, for sure. That's not a consent agenda item. UA1 through UA6. That is just for your edification, fire light east, my place hotel, fire light north, resolution for turn leaf has been removed, Babcock Ranch Community Verde and Biscayne Landing North, those are the items that we're referring to at this moment. I see no one rising for public input on these, so at this moment in time I would ask those of the items that we're referring to at this moment. I see no unrising for public input on these so at this moment in time I would ask any of the commissioners do you have any of these you wish to pull? No sir. Nothing. Okay very good. Move consent. Second. Move okay and not just to clarify we're moving consent without UA4 which has been removed. One through three and four and five. That's correct. And five and six. Five and six. Sorry. One to two. Five and six. That's right. Any comments or questions? Hearing none is there any opposition? Hearing no opposition that passes unanimously. At this point we will ask everybody who's going to provide testimony today to please rise raise your right hand and you will be sworn in by the clerk. Do you solemnly swear the testimony that you're about to give is a truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Please say I do. I do. Very good. Thank you. And with that, I will go to Commissioner Dordority. The first item is a joint presentation. We do have a positive judicial. Commissioner Dordority, what do you have to disclose? Thank you, Mr. Dordor, what do you have to disclose? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had my standard monthly staff briefings with Mr. Bailey, Mr. Collinum from Community Development, Mr. David, from the County Attorney's Office, following my paperwork this morning. And on these two items, I also received numerous emails and I copied those emails and submitted those as well to the clerk this morning. Very good. Commissioner Conses. Yes, you be one one you be two I met with constituents on these two items. Very good and I filed my paperwork. All right. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah I met with staff. I filed my paperwork on that. Also received emails filed those emails with the paperwork. I also met with the applicant and the applicant representatives back in February and filed that paperwork as well. Thank you very much. Mr. Doich. Member of staff got the emails and the subject and file my paperwork at this point. Okay, very good. And I have nothing at this point. With that, Ms. Schell. Good afternoon for the record. Jay Schell, committee department and my planning expert qualification is attached to staff report as Exhibit One. I'm a member of the team. I'm a member of the team. I'm a member of the team. I'm a member of the team. I'm a member of the team. I'm a member of the team. I'm a member of the team. I'm a member of the team. I'm a member of the team. I'm a member of the team. I'm a hearing is adoption hearing. The requested small scale plan amendment is to amend the 2030 future land use map from Bernstow Limited Development BSLD to commercial COM and a companion rezoning to amend the Charlotte County's only app list from should state 1 or you want to commercial CG and the subject property is located in commission district 2. This is a general location of the subject property which is located in the South County area. The notification of public hearings for these two applications was sent to the property owner and Jason property owners within 1,000 feet of the subject property. You can see on screen the red is the offer. And specifically the subject property is located in the east side of Bernstow Road in the Ponte-Gauille area and within the boundary of the Bernstow area, plain area. It contains approximately 41.31 acres. On the screen, this is 2050 framework map. The entire site is designated as emerging neighborhood. And on the screen, this is 2030 for each and each map. The site is currently designated as Bernstow Limited Development. That means the base density is one unit per ten acres. And on the screen shows, this is a proposed commercial future land use map designation if you approve the request a small scale plan amendment. And the sides of the current zone are E. And this is a proposed zoning to CG. So I would like to provide a brief history of the Bernstoy area plan and the subject property, the history of that. So in 2003 and 2004, the county received inquiries and proposals for future land use map amendments and rezoning from individual property owners around Bernstoy Road. So instead of piecemeal development, the Bernstoy area plan was created and approved by the Board of County Commissioners in November 2005 in response to the Department pressure in that area. So the Burnstone Area Plan addresses the development patterns and then anticipated the development trained in the Bernstoy area and the cumulative impacts of the growth so that infrastructure and services will be available when they apply for the development. So a policy associated with the Bernstoy area plan for development and the environmental protections as well as natural resource connection were also adopted by the board as part of the 1997 2010 comprehensive plan. And these policies were re-adopted in the county's current comprehensive plan in July 2010 and took effective in June 2011. So as part of the proving, I implement in the Bernstowe area plan, the board adopted ordnance number 2005-086 to extend the urban service area boundary to include some of the properties located along Bernstowe road. So I just put, there's two graphics there to the left. That was the graphic. It's applied to the. To the left, that was a graphic. It's a pry to the board, adopt a Bernstere area plan. So you can see a lot of land in that area. They were located outside of the Urban Service Area. To write, this is a Urban Service Area plan when the board approved the Bernstere area plan back in November to some fine. So I just want to show you, actually actually this is a subject property at that time. The subject property was located outside the urban service area. So and then the county did a 2050 plan, which that was adopted in June 2010. So the plan extended the urban services area, boundary to include the subject property and other two properties. And the two property immediate to the north and to the south of the subject property were amended from Bernstow limited development to Bernstow village residential, that back to 2010. So now I would like to discuss staff's concerns about the proposed land use change and rezoning to commercial. So the subject traffic impact statement report is now consistent with the TIS required by the county's comprehensive plan and a stay law for transportation concurrency. I just want to point out the future land use appendix one. Land use guide requires that each application for land use designation amendment, which these small scale plan amendment is the land use change will be required to demonstrate that the level of service standards are met or will be met concurrently with the impact of development for the short term five years and long term 2030 playing horizon. So in addition, the application must destroy the financial implication of the existing deficiency and the future needs. So therefore, it is steps professional opinion that potential traffic impact have now been corrected addressed by the applicant for this unified application. Furthermore, the submitted TIS is not approved by the county transportation engineer. So there is, I put on the screen, there are two major concerns. First is uninterrupted traffic flow. So burst in road can't be considered as a roadway with uninterrupted traffic flow. These several traffic signals have been planned along the corridor from Northern Dan, both of our to Vincent Drive. So you can see on the screen, I believe, on July 23rd, the board approved three agreement for the three traffic lights for three project. So why is co-lakes another turn-off and third- why is starting. And also the second issue for the traffic impact study report, the FDOT growth rate. So the applicant's selected growth rate is not applicable to the site because it does not reflect known impacts from approved development impacting the relevant segment of Bernstow Road. So I just want to show you the graphic. This is from since the Bernstow area plan was approved in November 2005, there had been project by PD Resonance was approved. So I want to show on the screen. And next concern I just want to try to point out the proposed commercial future and use map designation. If you approve, it will allow for a ratio of one, which is for the size, the subject property contains 41, about 41 acres. So the potential they can have maximum direct is 1.799 million square feet. And also, I just want to point out, show on the screen, the proposed CG rezoning is street rezoning. So this rezoning will allow you to have by right use, 46 by right uses. So I want to put it on the screen. It's not just only how to put medical office. I want to put the public shopping center there. I want to have other very limited uses. But if you approve the CG rezoning so they can have all the birite 46 uses, they just need to go back to the county file the DRC SIPRIN review. We're not present to the board. And also I want to point out these is the condition uses have total nine condition uses which they can go through the Cyprin review. They just need to meet conditions. And also there are 15 actually, I'm sorry, they have 19 special exception uses which can be approved by the board of Donnie or Pugh to come. Apply for that. So next one I want to address is existing commercial entitlement. So we can see on the screen this is a project which was approved in 2016. The board approved PD rezoning to allow for commercial development up to 200,000 square feet for this property, which is located to the east side of Bernstowe Road, which actually is located within the designated commercial node for the Bernstowe area plan. And also, there is one project which colleagues, this project, was originally approved in 2007 to the board approved the PD rezoning which allowed for the combination of residential development and commercial development. And the commercial development is the maximum square footage is 200,000 square feet. And the PD concept plan expired in 2007, but however, back in 2021, the African requested, re-activated the PD concept plan for another 10 years. So that's why in July, so there's a development agreement for the traffic light for this one project. And also we mentioned, there's other project which is called Heritage Landing Development Region Impact which is located on the west side of Bernstowe Road which authorizes a mixture of residential and commercial development including 1,810 residential units and commercial development will have 11,500 square feet of retail space and 20,000, 20,000 square feet of office space and the 150 hotel rooms. So as of today, expect for the residential development and know how the final detail say print is filed for commercial development for this project. So also I tried to point out, as I mentioned, the approved PD and the Heritage Man in DRI. So as of today, there are vacant land designated for commercial, including up to 511,500 square feet of commercial uses and 20,000 square feet of office uses and 150 hotel rooms. All that is still vacant. So furthermore, so there are approximately 55.8 acres of vacant land, zone 4 commercial CG uses. Or what I mentioned 55.8 acres of vacant land that does not include the county owned property. So I also want to point out, again, the Bernstow area plan, decreed two new land use category. Why is it called Bernstow Village Residential and another is called Bernstow Limited Development. Bernstow Limited Development only allows for residential development. However, the Bernstow Village Residential, they allows for 10% of this land can have commercial uses. So we did the calculation. In the county, you have over 3,332 acres of land designated as Burnstone Village residential. So however, I just want to mention, 10% of this property could be developed as commercial users by a PD rezoning. So you have a couple of projects which have the commercial, which I mentioned colleagues. They have commercial component in addition to the residential development. So also the last one I tried to point out is according to the Metro forecasting projections by 2030, the projected population around the world area will support a new neighborhood shopping center. So the new neighborhood shopping center is defined as the property size is between six to 20 acres and the building size is between 60,000 square feet and 150,000 square feet. So I just want to point out the subject property contains our property 41 acres. So that means I just want to point out the subject property contains approximately 41 acres. So that means I just want to show you the next on the screen. So the study shows by 2040, the projected population around Bernstow Road area will support a new community shopping center. So a community shopping center is defined as the property size is between 25 to 60 acres, so which is subject property is following to this category. So based on this concern, I mentioned the existing commercial environment entitlement along that area and the other big concern is the sub-niz traffic impact study report. So instead of it's staff professional opinion that the proposed land change and the reason to come commercial do not meet. It's not consistent with county comprehensive plan and intent of the Bernstoy area plan. So I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you, Michelle. Other questions at this time. Okay with that then we can go to the applicant. Good afternoon commissioners. I'm going to go ahead and get a few more questions. Good afternoon commissioners. Can you hear me? Yes. For the record, A to go with Brett Sol and Andres, I represent Jackson Fisher, the property owner, and I'm the land use attorney on this project. Our project team, which is on the next slide, includes the property owner, which is Jackson Fisher LLC, the managers are Bill and Laura Fisher who are longtime residents, not just of Charlotte County, but at the Bernstor area. Jason Green with access companies is our civil planner, and Jason Utley with Planning Analytics LLC is our traffic engineer. So our request here today is to designate the subject property commercial on the future land use map and to obtain conventional commercial general zoning for the purpose of providing non-residential neighborhood commercial uses to the residents of this area. And the reason for that is because right now, as you are all aware, these folks have to drive 10 plus miles just to go to publics, doctors, offices, things like that. So we're hoping to solve some of that problem by bringing some of these important day to day uses here closer to the residents and to really meet that need and that demand at this point. And this parcel is a very interesting parcel. Jason Green will discuss in a bit. This is a 40 acre parcel which is an unusually large parcel for this area. It's also high in dry. Again, unusual for this area. As you guys are all aware, there's a lot of very environmentally critical lands in the burnt store area, lots of wetlands, things of that nature. So it makes this property unique for commercial uses, like what we are trying to establish here on. And right now we're talking about the future Landy's map amendment. We'll address zoning later in our presentation. So I'll skip through the property overview. You've already gotten a detailed overview from Ms. Schau. We can, yeah, thank you. So where we are today is at the bottom of this pyramid. We're coming to you requesting approval for a future land use map amendment, which is related to the comprehensive plan and for commercial zoning. Many of the issues that you've heard discussed and that will be further discussed in our presentation today really relate more to the development order process and specifically traffic and concurrency and things of those nature so I just wanted to provide this visual for context before we jump into that. So the intent and purpose of comprehensive planning is to establish meaningful and predictable standards which your comprehensive plan has done. And this request meets the standards that have been imposed not just for the process of amending the comprehensive plan, but it also would retain internal consistency with all provisions contained therein. We can skip through this. We can skip through that. So, yeah, I'll turn it over to Jason Green unless any of you guys have any questions for me. Thank you. No, thank you. Good afternoon, Jason Green, access infrastructure. I'm going to go over the criteria. Essentially, the next four things I'm going to go over the two slides are the criteria that you have adopted as part of your comprehensive plan of what to review and evaluate. The reason why I want to touch on these essentially is because unfortunately, these weren't touched on the staff report. These weren't items that were gone through to say and evaluate our application against. So the first one being essentially general public services, public facilities, those types of things, that's your general, what is our capital improvement plan, what is our long range need, what would this do to impact that and whether it's residential or commercial application. As you know, there's a waste water treatment plant and we've received a letter that there's capacity available for that. You've got a roadway, obviously servicing a lot of traffic currently, and then you have fire EMS and those types of facilities in there. There is not a deficit for those at this time. You probably can have to keep up obviously with your residential growth, but on a comprehensive plan and future land use component evaluation, you're supposed to be looking at, okay, if we change this color on the map What does that do over the next five 20 and 30 years? Second being natural resources that's a pretty simple one. There's no environmental features or issues with a site Again, it's a are there wetlands are there endangered habitat? What do we want to do to potentially protect those? You very often as a community Ask for those wetlands and those other environmental features to be mapped out of a future land use map. We'll go ahead, 10 acres of wetland or bird habitat or what have you. Staff would probably have come back to us and say, can we carve that out and make that a conservation or something like that. In addition to these criteria, we were talking about the plain development policies throughout your plan. And Jason's going to touch, Jason, all these things things are going to touch on the traffic, but staff talked about the transportation concurrency. We're not asking for concurrency at this point. You don't ask for concurrency at a future land use map change. That is at the site planning effort. This is the academic exercise of what would this do to our roadways? Do we have a plan for it and what is the outlook of the potential effects? And as I mentioned that, you know, we will have to be consistent with whatever comes down the road as this site develops and all of you are very familiar with development. It doesn't happen overnight, especially on 40 acres. I did find it interesting that staff showed a talked about the short term compliance with the short term, five year, and the long term of 2030. I hate to tell you, that's five and a half years away. So right now by your policy, by your comp plan, your short term is five years, your long term is five and a half years. I don't think that was the intent because that policy was probably adopted in 2010. You're supposed to look in 10 and 20 years out. That's what state law really expects you to do. So we can go on the next slide. Again, so this is just kind of a graphic to show you. These are the four criteria that you have adopted as part of your comprehensive plan when reviewing these applications. These are the four things. The transportation review is, again, it's not a transportation concurrency. Is there a red flag? Is there going to be a problem? When do we think that problem will be? Is it 2025? Is it 2030? Is it 2040, wouldn't as development occurs on the site, when would that problem be, and then start planning for that improvement. You can go to the next slide please. So I just want to cover real quick and have to say it as a professional planner, and having served in Florida for over 20 years, working in multiple jurisdictions and cities and counties throughout the state, doing this on the private side, but also is writing comprehensive plans and reviews, this application meets these criteria. And it clearly meets, in our opinion, your criteria that you have adopted for these future land-use map amendments. Not only that, but as Jay, as Michelle had mentioned in the past, a few, I guess, a couple of 10 years or so, you've adopted updates to your future land-use map and your comprehensive plan to adopt this area specifically. These parcels is part of your emerging neighborhoods network. So these are the goals. I won't go through all these, but I just want to touch on these. These are additional goals that we've submitted and presented as why this is in compliance and they're consistent with these policies. But we haven't heard anything else on the other side of that. So again, here's some more policies about the Berthlay, Berthstore Overlay District, the vision and intent, with the intent to meet commercial needs. And as your consultant for Metro Forecasting, he's showing you that you do have a demand and will have a need for future commercialness area. Timing stand, go back real quick, please. Policy 6.2.14 talks about the policies of timing standards. And it's really important to talk about this timing because staff is used as an item that is not consistent with. Charlotte 2050 doesn't have location criteria, but the name of your plan is really important for me to everybody understand. It is a 2050 plan. You have a 2030 map. I don't know why. I don't know why you have a map that basically runs out in six years. You're supposed to have a 2050 map. You have a 2050 plan. So if you take that information and the data that your Metro Forecast Link consultant has provided you, with the demand and the projections moving forward. And staff has even said that in their presentation by 2040, the demand will be there. This is well within the planning horizon of your comprehensive plan. If you move on, please. As kind of touched on, the plan has been a part around for a long time. This is one of those things where if you really read, if you read the plan, the plan didn't specify and map out where the commercial should be. It said, these are general areas to start and we really need to look at this in the future, which I think Metro Forecasting has done that for you with those projections. Hasn't really been updated since 2005 and there's been such a substantial increase in residences since 2005 through 2023. It's great that you're finally taking a look at that area. And that data is very important because that data that your own consultant has provided you, mimics it very similar to the data that we submitted as part of our application. On a square foot of commercial per capita, on the future demand of the corridor and based on the population that we're going to see. You can move on, please. So I did some math. Hopefully I won't bore you with the math, but the comment from the staff report was that there is not a need. There isn't a timing issue. And we have all this other commercial. Well, this is based on your Metro Forecasting Report of demand currently is at 71 square feet per capita. And that's been a significant drop from what you've had historically and so they foresee that you moving towards that 81 to 90 square feet per capita in the future. It talks about the community and neighborhood center in the burnt store area and you they give you a range of acreage in square footage which by the way is not one FAR. The typical square footage that they use in the study and that staff talks about in the staff report is much lower than that one FAR because Charlotte County doesn't develop at one FAR. Your typical development is probably around point two if that usually. So based on that future 2050 commercial demand in that report there's 1.477 million square feet of demand for that 2050. And again they went up to 2050 because that matches and then the staff report mentioned 511,000 and some change for designated commercial areas. There's 20,000 square feet of offices. I rounded up to 550. Again, the staff report mentions 55.8 acres of vacant land zone commercial general. And based on Metro Forecaster Report that results in about 443,833 square feet of commercial. That leaves you with 1.4 million minus the 550 entitled plus the 443 zone. You equal about 483,163 square feet short. And that's if you assume there's not an additional multiplier that many communities add on to their commercial demand. Just to kind of cover a quick sum of the economic elements that the impact of the future landings map amendment will have, obviously with an amendment that is approved, it changes the taxation on it. It just changes the potential uses that could be on it and hopefully obviously future development will obviously increase that even further. Charlotte County has struggled with their percentage of property taxes residential, so adding commercial not only provide services, but it creates an opportunity to gather sales tax and property taxes from those commercial uses. This is an opportunity to not have strip parcel by parcel development. You have a lot of that on 41. You have a lot of small on 41. You have a lot of small plighted parcels out here. It's hard to get large tracks of land that have road frontage that are located appropriately to the residential. Again, this is just a market outlook report that was provided from a market analysis. This is showing everything in the red is what the future demand for this area is. Basically what it's saying is all the money is going out away from us because we don't have any commercial businesses. And this is how much money they would be spending if these uses were there. Now does that mean it's the business plan of a business to open up because that that dollar amount for a restaurant? No, but it's showing that there's a negative, so there's a demand for those uses. And honestly, it was, I think, it was 95% of the uses in the report that I was given. I just want to highlight again, Metro forecasting, 2050, staff talked about 2040, 2045. It is a 2050 plan. So it is well within your right to look at this from the 2050 perspective. Again, there's some commercial parcels that are in there. We've talked about viability parcels. Metro forecasting report talks about, there's a difference between 41 acre parcels and a 40 acre parcel, right? Those two things are different. It's much easier to develop. It's much easier to plan for a larger track that's under common ownership. Next slide please. And obviously that's just where we are. I want to add one last thing that the commercial that we talked about, the square footage that I talked about in that math, also did not include 100,000 square feet that staff did recommend be added in the burnt store area last month that's going to come before you. So there is additional square footage that apparently is being recommended to you in future meetings. This is a viable on the road. Master can be a master plan development to serve the Charlotte County in Burnt Store. Next slide please. Just this is just a graph to show kind of if you look at really under the colors of these maps and look at the aerials, this is side by side of the same parcels. Some of these parcels are challenging. It's going to be challenging to get. You might get a use here, a business there. Some of them are going to be challenged to develop because of just their orientation. You can keep going through that. Jay, thank you. The angle to the roadway, access, depth, drop off, elevation of the site, environmental features, it's just they're going to be challenging sites. And obviously there's one that's been developed with good frontage, decent depth, but that's about the depth of all of them and those are those are those are challenging depth to develop. And you know where are the other commercial parts of it? You can move on. Thank you. It's over five miles, essentially, for any other future commercial use. Next slide. We just, you know, basically, this is just some information for your USDA estimates that the majority of shoppers travel 3.8 miles or less to a grocery store. Obviously, they don't have that within that proximity. You're 8 to 10 miles. The property being 41 acres in size provides an adequate size and shape for mixes of uses, adequate parking, storm water, and well designed landscaping, all those good things that we want our community. Next slide. And again, just a summary of your just of the justification. You've got over 3,500 residential parcels within those sections, 29, 30, 31, and 36. You know very well what's coming. You know what you've had to approve and platted and what's moving forward. This area by all planning measures needs some commercial to support. Next slide, please. And we know that transportation is a question and issue. I will say that we just had, I believe there's a conversation last week about some alternative options to this. I think there's some fear out of this one FAR, but that's what's allowed under your plan. That's what you guys adopted as a max FAR. You also adopted that as your FAR and your commercial general. So we're kind of, we were in theory stuck with that. We are not opposed to a lesser FAR. We are not opposed to some kind of an agreement with a lower FAR on this site that can still then be sufficient to serve. If that 1.8 million square feet is a scary number, we understand that. And it's theoretical. So if there's a way that we can calm those fears by having a reduced amount, we would accept that. Next slide. So I'm going to turn it over to Jason to run through quickly some transportation items. Obviously the timing of these things matter, and I know Jason's going to touch on this, but you know, you just, I heard the conversation of you approved some traffic lights in July. We've had an application since December. So the timing of all that is a little misleading if you just talk about, well, July, we've already approved these lights. We've been going through this process since December. So we're here now to talk about those solutions. Jason. Jason, I like planning analytics. Am I timed or can I, okay, I can just relax, okay, great. Prefer that. You don't have all day. Okay, thanks for clarifying. Thank you very much for your time, for the opportunity to be here. I think what I want to do, just for, I know you guys get this, but just for the benefit of anybody that's listening to this presentation, you know, the FAR is thrown around, that's a, that's listening to this presentation. You know, the FAR is thrown around. That's a floor area ratio. And so what we did with the traffic study is we looked at an FAR of 1.0, which is a floor area ratio of 1.0. Now what that means in layman's terms is the fishers have a parcel of land that's approximately 41 plus or minus acres. So if you were, what they are allowed to build through the legislative action of changing this to a commercial land use, you could build 41 acres of commercial. This is common in so many jurisdictions that you have to conduct an analysis that shows the maximum of maximums that can theoretically be developed on the parcel. Everyone knows that the fishers are not going to develop 41 acres of commercial development. You can't. It's not viable. You don't have parking. You have to deal with stormwater. You have landscaping regulations. You have dry vials. There's no way that you could build 41 acres. What Jason Green had alluded to previously is that many jurisdictions that are automobile oriented such as Charlotte County, you're going to have a single story of development. You're not going to have two stories, three stories here. You're going to have a single story of development. You have to have adequate parking to meet the requirements. You're probably gonna be somewhere around, you know, 0.25, 0.35, something like that. It's gonna be your actual floor area ratio when you get to building. The analysis that we did is simply a maximum of maximums. It is, did you advance the slide? Go back if you don't mind. I haven't made it to that point yet. I just want to set this up to show you that it's a maximum of maximums. You know, it's a theoretical situation so that you can say, do we have a problem? If there's a potential deficiency that arises in the future, we need to add this particular link to our capital improvements program and say hey we need to look at prioritizing here. We've got a lot of development here, we've got a lot of changes and so we need to look at this for potential capital improvements in the future. The other thing we want to consider is what Jason also said that Charlotte County has a 2050 plan. Preferably I would not like to see two actions considered at the same hearing. I personally believe you've got one legislative which is your land use application and you have one quasi-judicial. So talking about the legislative petition here for the future land use, this is way into the horizon that we're looking at potentially. You need to evaluate this from the perspective of, will there potentially be a need for commercial land use as along this corridor in this general area by 2050. So it's setting the stage that as your population changes, as the community changes, as development changes, you have the opportunity to modify these documents. A lot of this stuff is out of date for the Bernstorier area plan. There was a lot of references to 2005. We're 20 years out now. I know that there have been some amendments that have been made particularly adding this parcel into the urban service area. So that tells you that adding this parcel into the urban service area, it's contemplated to be a more intensive urban style of development. So one thing we need to consider on this is that when we modify this parcel to a commercial land use, we're really promoting shorter trips. Some of this is going to be repetitive because they've mentioned it before, but you do have an opportunity for people to go to this parcel and not have to drive all the way to US 41 to the public's there or down to Pine Island Road, which each one of those is approximately 10 miles away from this site. So there's an opportunity for shorter trips, possible opportunities for bicycling. Most likely it's all going to be auto oriented, but it will be shorter trips. As I mentioned, it's worst case scenario, it's a theoretical exercise, and that's where we considered that the existing development patterns in the vicinity do not support, you know, it's not going to support 41 acres of commercial. If we could advance to the next slide. So this was just, you know, using the average development size, you know, over 41 acres, you know, I think it was what, 80, 8200 square feet per acre. So you might wind up with 339,000. So it's a huge discrepancy from what's in the report of 1.8 million. But we have to show what the maximum of maximums are for the theoretical analysis. So when you see that, you think, my goodness, that's a lot of trips, but it's never going to be built out to that magnitude. Next slide, please. So that's part of what I had mentioned. One of the things that staff had mentioned is that the Bert's Store Road is not an uninterrupted flow facility. As defined by the Florida Department of Transportation, an uninterrupted flow facility, uninterrupted flow highways or roadways or a combination of roadway segments which have average signalized intersection spacing greater than two miles and are not freeways. So I would stand here and say to you with the experience that I have that unequivocally, Burnt Store Road is an uninterrupted flow facility. There's a signal at the intersection with US 41. There's an unagorda. There's a signal at the intersection with Pine Island Road. Other than that, there's an in on a gorge, there's a signal at the intersection with Pine Island Road. Other than that, it's a free flowing facility. The issue of the signals that have been added back in July, as I understand it, it's an option for the developers to construct these signals. And there's a variety of things regarding when the homes reach a certain threshold that we can go ahead and start with the signalization. I want to remind you that this application was actually submitted in December of 2023. We can't account for everything that's going to occur during the course of the review process or subsequent to this review process. So at that time, as I conducted a review of the capital improvements program, I did not see any intersections that were going to be signalized. This, at the current time, it's uninterrupted flow and it was to be uninterrupted flow before the July adoption of the analysis to show the development potentials and potentially say to Charlotte County staff, FDOT or MPO, hey we may want to take a look at this in the longer term that we may have an issue here as far as programming. But we are not, as Jason Green had mentioned, we are not pursuing transportation concurrency, traffic concurrency. There's going to be no vested trips that would result from either the legislative action or the quasi-judicial action. The county would see at the time of site plans of middle, once the applicant knows the end users that are planning to go into this parcel, the applicant would submit another traffic analysis, a more detailed traffic analysis that would itemize the individual users. You know, let's just say for instance, a public's 48,000 square feet, associated strip retail, and then the magnitude of that, we would run trip generation on that, assign it to the facility, and see what improvements needed to be made at that time. So this is not something where if you approve this there's no further analysis. You're going to get a more detailed analysis in the future with a revised submittal with the site plan. So the applicant at that time, and I know this is jumping the gun a little bit, but I just want to let you know at that time the applicant would be required to make any site-related transportation I know this is jumping the gun a little bit, but I just want to let you know at that time the applicant Would be required to make any site related transportation improvements if you need to turn lanes into the site or out of the site Because the speed of the facility the applicant will be required to do that if there are any Deficiencies that would arise as a result of the proposed application at the time of site plans of middle, the applicant would be responsible for either making improvements or paying a proportionate fair share to resolve those deficiencies. It's also another thing to consider is that the applicant is going to have to pay road impact fees at the time of construction. So the growth rate that was used, staff had also mentioned something about the growth rate, the growth rate, go back if you don't know. Okay, thank you. The growth rate that was used was a reasonable growth rate on this corridor. I received multiple vested trip documents that was changing as we were going through the process. It was a reasonable growth rate. We need to keep in mind. We're doing a maximum of maximum theoretical analysis on this. So it's just giving you an idea of what the potential trips are going to be. But when you're actually evaluating the project and the future through the site plan, that's where you're going to get your your improvements and the real trips and the vesting of trips. So I had mentioned that there reviewed the time consistent. So transportation concurrency, I can't stress this enough with that with all due respect to staff the the misstatement that we're not applying for transportation concurrency. We're not relying upon is there capacity, is there not capacity? This is a planning tool only. Okay, next slide. Okay, so what I can say to you is that based you know, based upon my 20 years of experience, you know, in this area, I believe this comprehensive plan amendment would promote shorter trips for South County residents. I think it would bolster the non-residential tax base, which has always been important to Charlotte County because of the GDC legacy of this community and we probably have what 90 to 93% of the community is residential parcels. And so the residents here in Charlotte County have to support the burden of the tax base typically. Again, as Jason had mentioned, when you look at 776, you look at US 41, you have all of this GDC legacy of these narrow strip center parcels that don't really support modern type of commercial development. Please let's not lose the opportunity to have this as a commercial parcel. We've got more and more residential developments being approved in South County every day. I do not know if there's a consideration where people are saying, hey, how many vacant residential parcels do we already have in this county? If you look at the Florida Department of Revenue's report, you'll see that the legacy of GDC shows there's thousands upon thousands of vacant residential parcels. But we're continuing to approve more residential developments in the community. It's going to be paramount to make sure that we have the complimentary, non-residential uses to support that interaction and provide the services for the residents of the community so that hopefully those people in South County are not driving south down to Pine Island Road, getting their groceries, and we're losing the opportunity for the sales tax base. So thank you very much. I appreciate your time. Thank you. I think there's still one presentation. I think I think that's it for now. Okay. I appreciate your time. If you have any questions or you have time for a bottle after a poll. Yes, resursion time for a bottle. Yes, we're good. Thank you. Okay. Can we just say what thank you, miss chair? Yeah, question about the traffic. Maybe we have the traffic engineer back up again. You know, when I look at the staff report, it's pretty specific saying that the TIS report is not consistent with the county's comp plan or state laws for transportation concurrency. You're saying you are. And one of the differences is the timing of determining the uninterrupted flow. Staff, I think, is considering what's projected to be installed in the calculation. You're saying, well, it's not there, so we're not including it. And when you submitted your application, those weren't in play. So I guess the question for you is when do those come into play? Are we not supposed to consider those as a county knowing that those lights are actually in play those signals? I mean you're telling us just to discard that? No, no. I rely on the radar that I was anticipating. Okay, so this is a technical question then. Do those signals have to be considered in our capital improvement program to be weighed in a traffic impact statement? Or can they just be simply planned and not in the capital plan? Oh, Sean Cullen playing zoning official, I have been sworn. I don't believe that they have to be in the capital improvement plan. We have our transportation engineer here. If you'd like him to answer some questions, many of these stoplights were originally planned when the PDs or these were either approved or reactivated. What date was that one for the coral creek and some of those others 2017 2018 2019 when they reactivated those PDs it was contemplated at that time that the lights were going in as well as a light at heritage landing where the county's fire station was rebuilt that has been there for a while. Yeah I'm trying to establish when are we supposed to take in a consideration for the purposes of an applicant to determine the uninterrupted flow facilities. You know what I'm hearing is we're not supposed to be considering it and staff saying we are and I want to find out statutorily or through the comp plan, when are we supposed to consider that? We feel that when you're doing a plan amendment, but if you'd like to ask the applicant their opinion under our future land use map or under our future land use element, we require it and traffic concurrency at the other applicants the same way. Yes sir. Okay. You need Mr. Secretary. Yeah unless Mr. Fakri would like to add anything else. Can we repressations? I don't know. I didn't hear what he said. I'm sorry. Robert Fakri, transportation engineering, I've been sworn correct. I agree with John was saying. For example, we know now there's a traffic signal coming at Vincent and Mr. Road as well, that's planned. So there's the East West connector in the future, we're going to have a signal there. So for the purpose of the operation of the traffic, you know, uninterrupted flows like the freeway, right? Or you have like two lane facility where there's no driveways, no access, no stop conditions, you know, kind of limited access per se. So that's the stuff we look at. Yeah, because in reading the staff report it talks about Florida Statute 163.3180 and it says the concurrency transportation analysis must include existing committed invested trips plus additional projected background trips for many source other than the developed project. So I mean, I think that's part of your conclusion in saying that the applicant's not meeting that standard. Go right. And, you know, so I guess my question to the applicant is you've heard staff and you've read the statute. You're saying we should discard, okay. What say you? I think that's where we're getting lost in this discussion that's probably our follow. The point was at the time of application you prepare studies and based on information you have. There's nothing in, and Jason can, well, test it out of this, but there's nothing in the traffic study that doesn't provide what you're saying. The discrepancy is the committed and planned improvements of those traffic studies, which traditionally goes into your capital improvement plan so that when we're doing the studies, we can see that and account for that or what year it may be. We're also not saying discarded. We're saying that no matter which one it is, whether it's this version that we've provided or whether we go back and redo it per the staffs. Your code say you don't get concurrency at this point. It's a planning exercise to identify when does the link break, where's there a problem, how many years out is it, and then what is the kind of general idea and plan to fix it at some point? When you fix it at the concurrency part of it, when you develop, but your own planning and development code don't require, and say you don't do concurrency at this point. And staff keeps using that term over and over again. We don't know why, because your plan in state law does not say you do it at this phase. So we can go back and do another traffic study. They show all of that. What does that result mean? The result means, oh, OK, maybe there's a problem in 2030. Maybe there's a problem in 2040. Then we have to plan for that as we take down development as development occurs when we run out of trips or whatever those improvements are, have to plan for those improvements as part of the development in conjunction with the county, exactly with the proportion of our share, all of that planning has to be done through the development process. Well I understand that part but I I mean, obviously, professional staff has brought forth a staff report saying it is reviewed at this point. And they're saying it's not consistent with our comp plan. It's not consistent with state laws for transportation concurrency. So I guess, you know, I would go back to staff. You've just heard the applicant. What? Yes, sir. I will read from the, sorry, from the Land Use Guide, Appendix 1, for transportation. Each application for a Land Use Designation Amendment, which this is, will be required to demonstrate that the level of service standards, which is concurrency. That's a level of service standards, our met or will be met concurrent with the level of service standards, which is concurrency, that's a level of service standards, are met or will be met concurrent with the impacts of development for the short range, five year, and long range, 2030 planning horizon. In addition, the application must disclose the fiscal implications of the existing deficiencies and future needs. That is from the land use guide, and which is part of the comprehensive plan. Okay. So I mean you've heard staff. I mean I think I can maybe clarify this from a legal perspective. So keep in mind that comprehensive plans are not self-executing. They are executed through the adoption of the land development code and then the application of the provisions you adopted in the land development code onto these projects. What your land development code and what your comprehensive plan say is that traffic concurrency is considered at final development order. That is in your concurrency management section of your land development code section 3-5-330 at sec. So we are coming to you today saying we don't know exactly what our end users are going to be. Certain uses generate more trips than others but when we come to you at the time of DO, we'll have the trip generation numbers on lock at that point because we'll know, hey, maybe there's a fast food restaurant over here, maybe there's a dry cleaner here, medical office, whatever there may be associated with that. And there will be the overall square footage that will in all likelihood, be much closer to that 350,000 square foot number than to the 1.8 million square foot number that we're using today as the worst case scenario. This is again a little bit unique because if we were coming in, say, with the CPD where we had specific uses listed out, the process would be a little bit different. The traffic impact statement would be a little bit more targeted. But for the purposes of this particular application, this traffic impact statement is sufficient. There's nothing in the comprehensive plan that would have us do anything other than what we've done. And there's nothing in 3 180 of chapter 163 of the Florida statutes that would either. And in fact, that provision of the Florida statute also says that the county must provide the applicant with the opportunity to enter into a binding agreement if there are deficiencies as a result of the development. So that would be the proportionate share agreement or a developer's agreement, but those things aren't triggered yet So in fact abiding by state law would be Unfortunately kicking the can down the road, but that's really when we can actually address the impacts that this development would have on Berndt-Sor Road and all surrounding roadways. You made a point to say that you don't know what's going to come in there. Yet your traffic engineer said there's only going to be one story. How does he know that? It could be a two-story storage unit. It could be a multi-store floor commercial project. It could be a whole host of things. And when I see things in a presentation that say publics and things like that, nobody knows if publics is going to go there, ever, or anything else. I know when I met with the applicants back in February, I suggested a PD as an opportunity or pathway, as opposed to a straight reason, because it brings certainty to the community and to the board board what's going to be there. And I think one of the biggest things I've gotten through last several months, and I'm sure all of us have from the constituents, I got an email saying that there was a survey done with the Burnt Store Coalition communities that are down there, what they like to see there. And they sent me the email as if I have any power to put those specific uses in there. It had restaurants, grocery stores, all the whole host of things that they did a survey on what they want to see. This is a straight up rezone and staff said it perfectly. If this gets approved, it's by right, nothing comes to this board for the most part of those by by right uses that were listed in the county staff report it goes straight to the building department it doesn't come back to us it becomes administrative and then they do what they do in terms of the review at that point I'm just trying to let the folks know you know if their expectations are if this gets approved today that they're going to have all these things? No. There's not even an assurance that the owners that currently own it are even going to still own it tomorrow. They could just sell the property to somebody else. So it's just about expectations about what's being proposed because most of the emails I'm getting is we need medical walk-in clinics and we need publics and if we do this, they're going to get it. The board is making no assumptions that you're going to get any of that. We can't because it's private sector determining what goes there. So I just want the people to understand that. Crystal Clear, we have no control if this gets approved of what goes in there, other than what those permitted. I think there was 30 or 40 permitted uses that can go in there by right. It goes beyond the board at that point. Absolutely. And to answer your question about why it would just be one story, I don't know. But based upon the land development patterns in the general vicinity and throughout Charlotte County, I would make an assumption that it would be a one story development, not a two-story development. I would say why my opinion of why the residents contacted you as a commissioner and said, these are all the uses. These are some of the things that we would like to have, is because those uses cannot go into this parcel as it is currently with the current existing future land use. And I totally agree with you that the market decides. The county staff, they're not going to dictate the way that it happens. Consultants for the applicant, we're not going to dictate even the fishers that own the property. They're subject to market forces. But allowing this rezoning allows the potential for those non-residential uses and the interplay or the interaction with the existing residents there and the shorter trips. So I feel like it's very important that we have that as an opportunity. With respect to the PD, I know Charlotte County appears to be afraid of approving staff at least a project that's not a PD. I know that there's a level of comfort from knowing what are the buffers going to be, what's specifically going in here. But again, we need to consider that what we're asking here on the legislative action is to change the underlying land use to commercial, so that by 2050, in the future, nothing may happen in the near term. But in the future, is it reasonable to assume that a reasonably sized parcel, right smack dab along, Bertsdoor Road, near all of these residences, whether platted legacy parcels or things that have been approved, that there will be a need for commercial in this area. I personally think that it's reasonable to assume that. I mean one of the things I heard that I think is positive is a condition to lower the FAR. That's what I'm hearing. I mean, I know the county maxed it out at the 1.8. I believe you're in 3.39, 3.20 is what you're saying. So you're flexible on that as well. Yeah, that 3.39 was the math of what your consultant did an analysis of countywide, what you typically see commercialized And I just want to I think we need to and I appreciate your comments because you're right and where you're going with some of this There are a lot of this The first step is that category of commercial We can't do any forget the zoning we have to separate those soups are two different actions You can't do anything without that commercial future land use category. Once we get that established, then honestly, we could really have further discussions if you want about that zoning. And I have started using this as an example. You guys have the foresight to the eCAP, to put that into place and protect it for over a decade and preserve it from encroachment of other uses because you had a vision and now look at it. That is the sole purpose of your future land use map. You're supposed to reserve land for things that communities need in the future. Otherwise, everything would get run over by residential. And the reason I focus on the traffic and my first set of comments is because the coalition for a year now has been hammering the board on traffic on Bernstor Road. Right. So this is the first step to look at future traffic impacts on Bernstor Road, and we need to get it right. That's why I'm asking the questions on the traffic, because that's what I've been hearing for a year, if not longer. But that's why we put commercial places near people so that they have shorter trips. Every community I'm working in right now, they have that struggle, that for lane road, that highway kind of thing. What do we do? We've got all residential people leaving and coming out of the county. Well, you got to put uses there that they're going to have shorter trips to. That's my only point is this, the 2050 plan and your map should be reserving acreage for future development and let the market forces figure that out. And the zoning is a separate second part of that. Thank you. Thank you. This is very quickly commissioned. is a separate second part of that. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Mr. Davis. Very quickly, Commissioner. Obviously, staff has additional comments that we like to make related to this technical question here, but we think it'd probably be a good idea to get the hearing, the comp of the comment completed, then we can get into the back and forth on the technical. Okay. I still would Commissioner DeCue, so we'll remove that. Yes, of course. Commissioner Constance and then Commissioner Dordy. I was first. He's not in the queue. I'm going to back out now because Mr. David's request to get to the public hearing component. Let that go. Let's hear the public first. I do have some follow up questions though. After we hear from the public. Commissioner Constance. I guess we're kind of nice. Thank you. I just have one question. We're talking about changing the landing map, but there's other times when people come in with that request along with a PD reason, and they do it all at the same time. So we're actually able to look at everything. That's my comment. You know, I get all the things that you've said. You don't have to repeat yourself. And you make good points, and I'm understanding staff's position as well. But again, it's not like we can't do it that way. It's not like you can't go back to the owners and say, look, you're going to have to put in some more leg work up front and show us what the plan is going to look like and commit to a PD rezone so that we can then say, okay, now we know it's going to be there and we do have all of that stuff laid out. And the folks know and they can make comments and then we can make a decision. But anyway, I want to go ahead and listen to the public. Okay, we're good. With that, we will open up the public input portion of the public hearing. Anyone wishing to speak on the side of them may come forward and you have up to five minutes. Please come forward, state your name clearly for the record. Hello, my name is Laura Rouse. My backyard faces Pepper Corn and Bernstor Road so this project is across the street from my backyard. And while our POA in Bernstor Lakes sent out an email and support of approval of a zoning change for the large parcel, I'm here to speak out against the zoning change. In the email that was sent to the POA residents, there were several reasons to give support of the zoning change, and I will state my reasons for supporting those. The number one was that this will save travel time, and we've heard that repeated several times this afternoon, that somehow this is a problem for everybody that we have to drive eight or nine miles to the publics. And I can say I'm about two miles from the Lee County line, although I travel up to Punagorta. It takes me 11 minutes to get to publics, maybe 13 if I want to go to the one in Cape Coral on Pine Island. So within 15 minutes, I can get to publics, depot, all these Walgreens, AutoZone, the gas station, Chinese restaurant, Mexican restaurant. I consider this an extremely reasonable amount of time. I understand that will change if there's some traffic lights put in that impede the flow of the other things is the, you know, that they were saying that the residents wanted the number one thing was the grocery stores and the urgent care and also a bakery was one of the three. And while that sounds nice, there is no guarantee that that's what will be put in. I personally don't believe that that area could support that at this time. An urgent care, there's bakeries, you know, within a drive-em-all, easy amount of time to get to. And I can get to a doctor's office dentist, anything within 20 to 30 minutes. So that's not a problem. Now the number two and three reason that the POA gave is that somehow having these retail businesses will reduce traffic and accidents. The normal progression of building more commercial units is it leads to an increase in traffic. That's been a concern today about how they're going to control the traffic, having to add traffic lights and such. The posted speed limit is 55 miles an hour, which anybody that travels up and down Bernstor knows that the normal flow is well over 60 miles an hour. So obviously there's going to need to be some traffic lights at this intersection as well as long turn lanes to get in and out. So I just can't see how that's going to lead to fewer accidents and reduced traffic. And the last reason they gave was that these retail businesses are going to improve our lifestyle. And I think it sounds nice to say, gee, we could have an urgent care there. We can have a publics right there, a bakery, go get coffee, whatever. But as was brought up, there's no guarantee of what's going urgent care there. We can have a public's right there, a bakery go get coffee, whatever. But as was brought up, there's no guarantee of what's going to go there. And it's their speaking negative of having the strip mall type of stores that we see, like currently in the burnt store marketplace with the publics, which to me, I can get most of my shopping done and then you can do Amazon or Sam's Club. It's shopping is not a problem. And so to say that the strip mall thing is bad, you're talking about a huge commercial piece of property with no guarantee what it's going to be and you saw the long list that was up there, what the potential things can be with gas stations, sexually oriented businesses, restaurants, nightclubs, parked in the middle of this rural area that when I moved there, we could hear the cattle, the coyotes at night, and now we're gonna be subject to lots of traffic, the light pollution. When I leave the house in the evening, I can see the lights from the Aldi parking lot, which is about nine or 10 miles from my home. So I'm sure with a big commercial developed area that you're gonna have lights glowing all time if you have any businesses such as restaurants, nightclubs, they normally stay open a little later. So I think a lot of this is premature. They keep given the 2050 deadline of projected time to look at this. This is 2024 coming to an end. I know that there is a lot of development coming up with the, you know, on Zemmol and all the developments on Bernstore, Notre Dame and all that, that we might need some businesses down the road. But I think this is a massive plan that we don't know what's going to be there in the future. And I would strongly disapprove it. I think it's going to open up a whole Pandora's box of a lot of problems that Punnigorda doesn't need. Thank you. Thank you. Next week. Hi Patrick, heard Bernstor village. I was originally going to go over the details of the survey, but seems like some if not all of you have read it, so thank you for doing that. The purpose of the survey, I'll give you a little color, was Mrs. Fisher asked me, what would the people in your community like to see? So that I wanted to test the waters to make sure people had an interest like this fine lady here explained doesn't really suit a need for her. We had about 2% of all the people who responded to say leave it like it is and We know it'll either be residential or something else. It probably won't stay the way it is so With that in mind and with all the growth coming in to the corridor You all are well aware of the facilities going in on the east side and heritage landing area on north That one public store up in Bernstor road and 41 That parking lot is pretty full during in season as it is right now. I don't know if we'll be able to get into it when these other communities fill out in the next two to five years whenever that's going to be. So I think the fact that we have a willing landowner right now who's ready to do the hard work to find out who those tenants are going to be to get something in there that will alleviate the traffic going north which will hit three different traffic lights between where we live right now from Zomel Road on South. You'll have to stop around Heritage Landing and two other points north potentially. That'll create a lot more traffic I think for and frustration for people. So I would just ask the council to consider that in your decision making process and yes I know we don't know if it's going to be a grocery store or Walgreens, whatever it might be, but it'll be better than just the dollar general store we have right now for last minute needs. And certainly the urgent care, I think that it definitely be the population to support more physicians coming into the area and it would be an ideal location to have something like that in there. Thank you. Thank you. Any other comments? Yes. Good afternoon. You've heard from Mouli experts. Name for the record, please. Oh, yeah. John Fleming. Thank you, John. Okay. You heard all the experts. I'm just here on behalf of the members of the coalition just to tell you what the residence issue was. For right now, we totally understand what the fishers are asking for. We do understand that you are going to be giving them a lot of leeway. We also understand Joe that there are no guarantees in life. But what I can't tell you is these people are our residents. They're our neighbors. If someone is going to take into consideration what you go there and what helps people it's going to be residents. Now I can tell you the last time someone came before this group and wanted to rezone they built storage facility. Okay, there are no true guarantees. But what I can tell you is this, I handed out to you 2022 census. There are 10,000 residents in this area as of 2022. Okay? Not the 4,567 that were forecasted by the Ghost People. It comes down to a point, gentlemen, where you're gonna have to figure out what is the most important thing for you. I'm just here to tell you that what the residents need is important as is the people, who are the experts, and I don't want you to lose the fact that the fishes came to us two years ago. They sat with us over many meetings. They wanted to know what we need. That's what that study was done. Again, I know what's going to happen. We don't know. But this is the start of a process. If you allow this, you are starting a process to go forward. As you know, we're doing the 2005 update. This can become a part of that. But unless if there is some motion forward, we're never going to get anything. We're never. If you look at the demographics, if you look at how much the people make, they make $8,000 more than the state average. So the money's there. You have the largest marina on the West Coast in Florida. You also have people who come from other areas who are snow birds who come and they buy food. They're not listed as part of 10,071 people. At some point in time, the residents need to be addressed. This is a priority, it's a major priority. I understand there are people who don't like this, but people don't like the fact they got to drive 10, 11 miles. Especially when there's a forced evacuation, which happened during Ian, I got nothing. I went up to the Puntogordo place and walked the place. I got nothing, I went up to the Punta Gorda place and walked a place. I got nothing. It was sold out. So there are many issues here. You are the people who are elected officials. You'll have to make the final decision. But I would ask you to look at what transpired in the zoning meeting on July 8th. 17 people spoke all in favor of it, and they voted for it. Because Stephen Vieira, who's on the board, felt compelled when he asked, are there any projects out there to add commercial? Staff told him no. That led him to believe that there is a need for this. That's what I want to add. And I just hope that when you look in the considerations of what the people who any experts have, that you look at the residents and say to yourself, this does have a place for us. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Please, ladies and gentlemen, let's refrain from applause. I appreciate that very much. Next speaker, thank you. Chris, I'm that very much. Next speaker, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Craig Williams. I'm the President of Woodland and States, also on the Bernstore Coalition. I'm retired. I live in Woodland and States for the past since 2014. So I've been a community member for the last past ten years there and I've watched the whole bookstore court grow from a single lane both ways and all woods to where it is today. So evolution is taking place. We all know that. So we need to move forward, but Ford, where we think we're going to drive eight miles either way to get logistics. As everybody else has been talking about, some people are happy they could drive, they don't want to drive eight miles, but you're talking about reducing the amount of traffic on our virtual road by putting this in, it's going to reduce it because it'll be able to go shorter distance. You will have travel all the way out the pine island, all the way out the point of order to get anything. It's taking vehicles off that road going back and forth. All right, so I've learned all this also. I want a U.S. combat veteran and I spent 36 years in the military. I support operations officer. I learned all this stuff that we're doing. We're talking about now through prognatics. I learned it by actually doing it, right? In the foreign country, we set up logistics. When you do all these builds, you have to have logistics. There's no doubt about it. Eventually you don't have to have support for the communities in that area. Postal service, waste management, all that's got to be increased and those personnel have to be trained. You don't barely find anybody to work anyway nowadays. Okay, so logistics is important. And let's see. The fishers have built, they have a business that's built right outside of Woodland State. They've been there for many years. They're very honest people. They're community members. Their intent is to be positive for the community. You say in 2045, you have no build out for regular logistics at all. Plan, I think is very unfair for the stakeholders of that current source community that we have to wait 20 years, probably pass my lifetime before we get any logistics in there. We need them now, we need medical attention. I got medical issues too. From my combat injury, I got to travel away 10, 15 miles these away. And if there's an emergency down that area, you have no emergency services there except for one firehouse who put EMPs in there, EMSs. So EMS can handle one or two calls. Why don't you go to all that buildup of the residential units? You have two or, one of them you've got two, by the time you've got all that buildup of the residential units, you have two or three calls down there, so with a medical emergency, somebody's gonna have to get in the vehicle and drive all the way or have an amputee come up and pick you up and drive you all the way, but if they're responding to one or one or two people, then what are you going to do? That third person is going to die. Fourth person is going to die. So if you have more than two or three emergencies, it's not going to work. So I'm going to support this. I think that it is needed now. They're willing to give up their property for commercial use. The studies say they've already got commercial property zoned for this area. But that was done probably 20 years ago. When people sat down in the Clyde Lord, you have to have a plan for commercial areas. That could be changed. You could change that, like you did then, and you could change it now to commercial property. And then there is no guarantees as to what's really going in there. But I believe what you know that I studied it was done what people want was only a few amount of people in that area that responded to that. So there's a lot of other people, I know especially in the will of the state because I went door to door and spoke to everybody in the state. Therefore, this bill of commercial property so we can get some logistical support in their groceries, medical center, and stuff like that. So I just hope you reconsider changing this. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Good afternoon. Mary Ellen Kiss, Bernsterecorder Coalition, Bernstere legs. Said Bernstere legs is a property or a development that is directly across the street from the proposed rezoning property. And the one thing I guess I really would like to emphasize more than anything is at this point in time, regardless of any commercial zoning that is in place on the corridor. There are no active applications for commercial development. What we are looking here and what we're looking at here is the fact that there is the ability and the prospect of developing neighborhood commercial for the benefit of our residents within two to three miles on both sides by the way of the county line because this property is basically at the county line. And even though the laundry list that was produced on allowable uses for commercial general in all likelihood and what the Fisher the Fisher's have said is that they are going to take into consideration what we the residents are asking for so that that property can be prosperous and also serve the greater needs of the community. I think that the risk that the Board of Commissioners thinks that they may be taking in approving this application because of not being It's a very small risk. I really do. We are looking at people who have a commitment to the community. And they are not going to go against the residents of the community. Thank you. Thank you. We have another speaker. My name is Jerry Newman. I'm Vice President and I remember the Board of Directors of the Bernsturm Arena Master Home Motors Association. We're a community of about 4,000 residents immediately south of and within a quarter of a mile of the developed property. We have commercial properties but we're pretty well developed out. There's no room for commercial development within the Marina. But the point I want to make is we, over the last two years, have had 450,000 vehicles a year come into that community, which means you got the same number going out. That's about 1,250 cars a day. I don't have any hard data, but I guess the majority of those vehicles are going somewhere else for food, healthcare, whatever. But it's a huge flow of traffic in a lot of different community because there's nothing nearby that's available to them. I also want to add that Lee County just approved a change to 10 houses per acre for 35 acres right across from the dollar store. It's 354 houses. There's also a plan development for 3,500 houses down by tranquility lake. That's a couple miles south. Tranquility lakes 500 RV units. So it's not just what's in Charlotte County. It's a huge booming thing happening, happening in Lee County, just out of this property that's all gonna have access or want access to that property. So we're very supportive of that. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Next speaker? Hi, I'm Mary Andrew. I'm a resident of Bernstorrelakes. I've been living there for 10 years with my husband. And I have no fix in figures, no statistics to quote. I'm just going based on what I've seen. The growth in the area is phenomenal. The planned continued growth is phenomenal and apparently in Lee County too, based on the last speaker. I have been attending meetings and hearing about all of these things since early in 23 and I have to say that any resident, that excuse me that, excuse me, that I've spoken with or responses that I hear at other meetings that I've been at is very much in favor of this idea. With all due consideration to the first lady that spoke, the fact of the matter is, I think most of the residents in this area are retired. We are not spring chickens. We do not want to drive 8 to 10 miles to go get a half gallon of milk, nor do we necessarily only want to shop at dollar general. So I think that the idea of the traffic considerations I would agree with the gentleman who spoke up that that would actually decrease the number of cars that are traveling further south or north on Bernstrow Road. I think that the consideration of having people even from Lee County, from Bernsturm Arena, to be able to shop more locally, and then those tax dollars go to Charlotte County is something to consider, because I know a great number of people just go to Cape Coral, well then guess who's getting those, that money is going to Lee County. So I think there's so many aspects to this. I can understand hesitation. I was a little surprised myself when I saw the 46 different uses that could be used in commercial. But I know that the fishers are residents, business owners and very active in seeking other residents of the areas opinions about what they'd like to see go in there. So I personally am very much in favor of it as are my local neighbors and friends in both Bernstorleiks and Bernstrum Arena. Thank you. Thank you. We have any other speakers? My name is Francis Courier. I currently live in Bernstorleics. I previously lived in Bernstor, Marina. I moved there in 1994. So you can imagine I've seen a lot of change from a very rural area to a not so rural area anymore. Getting to the store used to be down a very narrow two lane road with a big curve, very dangerous. The road was widened to have rumble strips on either side, which made it even more difficult to drive. Now we have a four lane road. Great. I can get the store much quicker, much safer. But now we have all these developments coming in. And it's not just the residents that are going to be on the road. It's going to be their service providers, their landscapers. There's, you know, everybody, the people that the electricians, the plumbers, everybody else that services these people. So we need to have something closer where we can access without having to drive through all that traffic. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. here five years ago is that I was moving out into a rather rural area and I was very much looking forward to the development of what would be coming as I live my life in this area. And so I am definitely in favor of seeing some commercial things come into that Bernst Orr-Cort or versus solely the residential that seems to be coming in there. It would be very nice to have the option to see what businesses, what the market would bear and what the businesses that would decide to come into that area would bring to us. So, definitely. Any other speakers? Please. Hi, my name is Mary Fure. I live in Burt's store lakes and we started building in Burt's store I'm going to go to the store. Hi, my name is Mary Fure. I live in Burt Store lakes and we started building in Burt Store right before COVID. We've seen a lot of changes. The two lane road into the four lane road. We knew at the time that we moved there, we had to go this way or this way for the grocery store. And it wasn't a big issue. But there are so many accidents, especially up by Notre Dame, and you have to turn around, or even on burnt store in Lee County. If there's an accident on that two lane, you have to turn around. And then again, with all of the development, and there's a huge development going in on the Lee and Charlotte County line at 75 and Jones loop so those people are probably going to go to the 41 and burnt store Publix and stuff and like you said, yes, we there's no guarantees that we're going to store, publics and stuff. And like you said, yes, there's no guarantees that we're gonna get a publics. But we need something. We need, there's really no services to us except for the dollar general. And sometimes it's just not the best quality that you want. I pride myself in my cooking and things., you know, sometimes you just don't want to go and then you go to a burnt store and you get stuff and they don't include it in your bag. So then you have to go all the way back out there. Like I said, those are just little inconveniences, but as far as the traffic, I don't think it's going to make traffic in our area worse because the people who are already going north and south are going that way anyways. But if we can, and especially because we do have so many elderly people that live there that aren't comfortable going into the really crowded areas. This is a better opportunity for them. And it's just security and going someplace close to home you're not gone as long. And yeah, like I said, no guarantees of what we're gonna get, but just having the option of that land being there available to us and seeing what we're gonna get, but just having the option of that land being there available to us and seeing what we can get, you know, and like a bakery coffee shop. Yeah, that would be great. Do you know how many elderly people like to get together and have their coffee? And yeah, we have the country club right there, but I mean, it's just, there's so many reasons why I see this as a positive. And I appreciate what you do. I would not want your job. I've dealt with public a lot, and it's not always great. But it would just be nice that you think of us as the little people. And what our needs are. And I don't think we're asking for a whole lot. And the other couple that talked about being right up against Burt's store and the light pollution, I hope to think that people in Florida and being this coastal are just a little more involved in the environment in the environment around us. And if there's anything that we can do to tone down lights that are safe for wild life, and I'm all for that, but I think that we need to be, we don't need another housing development. We need services. And I just would really appreciate it if you think about all of us older, little people out on here that, you know, like I said, I don't mind the driving, I don't, but it would be nice to, you know, just have something closer by and like I said, we do have a lot of elderly a lot and it would be so much easier on them. So thank you. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? Good afternoon gentlemen, my name is Phil Colletti and I live in Pirate Harbor. And I got to tell you, you know, when we first moved here, Bernstarr Road was two lanes. It was so nice and quiet. I mean, unbelievable. Noisy now? Yeah. Do we need more houses here? Come on really. Bernstur road is like it's it's it's it's it's exploding. I remember when what was it? Turn Bay? Now it's what? Harvage landing and it was turn Bay. Back in what 2006 when I had to gyre you know, the Chinese sheetrock and all that and they went on there and I told my wife, I said, you know, we ought to buy a couple lots in here. We could probably get them real cheap and then flip them. And she's like, non-althing, so. But anyhow, it's tough. If anything happens to you, I can assure you, I know the fishers they're not going to put up a dirty bookstore They're not going to put up a triple X video or strip club or anything like that. I know these people I Know these people it ain't going to happen You know what we really need is you know like an urgent care center or something like that because God forbid You get caught or something happens you got to drive all the way up the faucet Where you got to go all the way up the faucet where you gotta go all the way to leave Memorial or try to find one of those places it's open to get stitched up for good help. It's bad. It really is. I mean, just take it into consideration, whatever latitude you could give them would be great. Thank you. I don't want to bore you. Thank you, sir. My name's Phil Smallwood. Thank you for your support this morning. And I'm here now as a resident of Southwest Charlotte County. I know the Fisher's also, I live in Pirate Harbor but one thing that I wanted to make a point of was probably a year ago Mr. Constance asked staff what happened to the commercial property that was in a long Bernstor road. Oh, well, what happened to it is the county bought it all up for lakes, for retention ponds. So if you buy it up for retention ponds, why wouldn't you give it back to one person? You bought up how many acres, a long Bernstor road for retention ponds. Now is the time to give back just a little bit of that land because you probably bought up 100 acres. Now there's time to give back 43. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you, sir. Anyone else who's going to speak? Hey, my name's Roberta Colletti and I live in Pirate Harbor. I've known the fishers for quite a while now. And there are nothing but upstanding people. I mean, they do anything they possibly can to help our neighbors, our friends, people they don't even know. And I was over the weekend, I was looking at, you know, the little plan that we've been looking at today and the current neighborhoods, like currently being built, for example, you know, Heritage Landing, the projected developments, of course, the three that just had the traffic lights approved, and then you've got some other neighborhoods up here, and then there's some neighbors, and there was a box down at the bottom that showed there's like 4,300 units that I'm not sure if it was, you know, empty lots or what. But if you added all that up, it came up to a little more than 12,500 units. And those units, if I'm looking at it correctly, you know, maybe 2,000 of them have been built so far. They're still building. They're still projected building. So if you take those 12,500 plus units, and I hate to say assume, but let's just say you take, you know, say, okay, 12,500, you wouldn't want to say, it's a two family home. Let's just say there's 20,000 residents in that 12.5. That's another 20,000 car on Bermstore Road. It's going to be going up to Publix or going to the doctor. And you say now, oh, it only takes me 11 minutes. And this and that. Well, it's going to take a whole lot longer, especially when those traffic lights go up. The accidents are going to get worse. I mean, to me, there is no reason not to approve it. There is no commercial on that portion of Burt's Store Road from where their property is or say from Vincent, Burnt Store, Marina, up to past. What's the first thing there? A church that's off of Burnt Store when she hit the 45 mile an hour piece. I just don't really see, and I'm not like a big fan of, I want a bunch of gas stations and turning it into like a napoles or whatever. But you have the ability to control it. And I just don't understand why you have this little small piece of property that their intentions Then they would be right there with the others. So they're not going to want a bar in there or this or that. They want upstanding businesses in there. They want things that are going to help our community. And I'm 7, eight miles from town, home depot. I cannot see any glowing lights. I, you know, it's totally dark. I can't see turtle crossing when those lights are on for my house. It's just, I just don't think it's going to be intrusive. And I think it's something that our community really needs. And when you have the older individuals that are concerned about driving and you have the additional traffic with all these new homes that are being built, they're not going to go. And then they're just going to get sicker. Now you've got the ambulance coming. So that's just my two cents. And I really hope that you guys have through this. I really, really think it will help us. Thank you. Thank you so much. Anyone else wishing to speak? My name is Sally Walsh. I live in Bernstarr Village. The one thing I know about the fishers is I believe they're committed. I don't think they're flippers. They've been working on this in July of 2022 at the first coalition meeting that was at Bernstarr Colonies. Christopher Constance was there. I'm sorry I don't remember everyone else's there. I know Sean was there. And you're right, there are no guarantees. But this I guarantee is that they would do absolutely the best they can for their communities that are in their surrounding area. No offense or buts about that. I believe that this is not something that's going to commit to a great deal of traffic because aren't you slated to have six lanes here pretty soon out there? I think that's more of a commotion than four. Also, I believe that in around the Cabana and the Venison and the Pepper Corn area on the south side where the lakes are, they're also zoned for multiple family right in that area. So the woman, it's afraid of what's gonna happen with the commercial, I think that's gonna be more in her backyard than someone who's trying to do something for everybody. They stood up and they asked, what do you want? This is a gift. Nobody stands up and says that. They pretty much do what they want. The no guarantees. Who's gonna guarantee that all these developers aren't gonna go bankrupt? We've got an election coming up in the fall. God knows what's going to happen after that. So as far as developers go and the proposals go, you can't guarantee those either. You can only propose them. So I hope that you listen to what everyone has said and how much they've said about the commitment that they hold and really think hard about allowing this to go through. Everything is subject to change. Don't panic. These people will work with you. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? Come around. Sorry I have to go around. Thank you. If you find a shortcut, take it. Otherwise, go all the way. It's always been my motto. Yeah, my name is Todd Bird. I am a resident of Bernstorleics. I live off of peppercorn on Anthem. And I can say for a fact that traffic is an issue and will be more so an issue, because when those boats were all stored there, you had people trying to go four different directions without a light. And just having people come across two lanes, not knowing if anyone's going to make a turn there. Now, I'm saying I'm looking forward to a light, but if you put something there, you'll have no choice. There will have to be a light light or you will have fatalities. And if it is a first aid place, it'll be a appropriate place for it because you will have accidents. I'm not opposed to something being there. I mean, right now it's just an open field, so it's not appealing to look at. There's no trees But it does have a bunch of honey boxes So I just if it's gonna be built I would like it to be more advanced planning and definitely know what you're gonna do about lights Because if you put something there you're gonna have to have I Don't want anybody rushing into it saying we have to do this now, we have to do this now. The economy is in the tank, maybe it'll improve, maybe it'll keep going downhill. I already got a contractor corner house on my street. House isn't being finished because that contractor went bankrupt. Don't need any more of that. It's ugly. Got a house on the corner of Peppercorn and Anthem. Can't sell it. It's been there over a house on the corner of peppercorn and anthem. Can't sell it. It's been there over a year. Brand new, never lived in. So just throwing up more buildings because we can isn't necessarily a good idea. Go in with a plan. Not just if we make it commercial, it can be this. Now we're on that little optional, let's just say, don't do nothing yet. Let's wait till labor, let's wait till something goes down to where this isn't $5 million to build something that's worth one. That's all. Thank you, sir. Anyone else? Mr. Chair, we're nice to see no one else rising. I moved to close public and to the portion of public here. Thank you. Public Section of close is in your opposition. You're in your opposition that passes unanimously. Commissioner Dory. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Trying to, I guess, sort all this out. Fundamentally, I definitely see the benefit of this property being a plan amendment to be commercial. However, this board typically, as previously stated by two of my colleagues, typically in recent history, I guess I'd say, when they have a joint application like this, we have a PD application, whether we have at least a conceptual site plan. So we have a good handle as to what the development's going to be. So staff can analyze that and get a better understanding of what the impact, especially traffic, what the impacts are going to be. That's the dilemma we've got in our minds, where I'm used to seeing a PD come in. Now, they chose not to do a PD. They have that right. So that's the hang up for me right now is the zoning request of straight zoning does allow the FAR of 1.0, which the applicant's traffic consultant is admitted, that's unrealistic, it's not going to happen and it'll probably, I'm trying to go for a memory, sir, he's in the stand in the back, 0.25, 0.35 would be typical. I'm wondering, I just want to throw this out, 0.35 would be typical. I'm wondering, I just want to throw this out, Mr. German, to staff. Is there a pathway? If the applicant wants to stick with a CG zoning, where is there a pathway in the comp plan amendment, where we could restrict on the legislative side on the conflant this piece of property to have an FAR of something like .35. Is that possible? I think Jake had probably explained it better than I can but yes there is a path. Go ahead Jake. You can put the annotation to the conflant to limit the FAR and sometimes you could limit to the complaint, to limit the FAR, and sometimes you could limit the specific uses. Okay, you can put annotation to a 2030 future land use map, and to limit the FAR. The FAR, but not necessarily the uses. I mean, in other words, the list of CG uses would still be allowable, so they'd still have the choice of what they want on that property, but they'd be limited to that floor area ratio. Yes, it happened multiple times. It has happened in the past. Yes, and we also have cases, the future land use amendment, we limited the specific uses. I believe that there are one project in West County, limited parking lot. I appreciate knowing that, but quite honestly, it seems like they want more flexibility than that. Just mechanically for the comp plan, we had some conversations about like this with applicants attorney I did yesterday. And so we've been thinking about whether we could actually do that with the instruments that are in front of you today. And we think you could, we think you could amend the ordinance by placing that restriction in the comp plan, any notation added to the ordinances terms. And it would still, it would be, within your rights to do that, it would be a substantial change to the title, wouldn't change the title at all, so that we would be able to actually do it today if you wanted to do that for that first. For actually, you be one. Yes, that would be for you be one. For the legislative item, if you decided you, the applicant, had agreed to some notation that was limiting the FAR that you could do that with the instruments that are in front of you today? Process question. If we did that, would it then be necessary for the applicant to come back with the zoning, the CG zoning request so that staff could go back through a revised traffic impact statement and all of that? Is that necessary? Well, this is a disputed area among the folks who are testifying here today. So I think our staff's preferred process would be that if there was going to be an annotation to the comp plan that the traffic report would be rerun based on that and based on some understanding of whether this uninterrupted traffic flow and the DOT growth rate was resolved. So that and the reason for that as I understand it is that under the fact that you're changing the designation of that property from burnt store as a BSLD to commercial, that means the staff has to go through the analysis that's required under the statute to do that. There's a disagreement from the applicant's experts on that. Our experts are saying this, I tend to agree with them. But like I say, this is the part where you guys get to earn your money because it's an evidentiary question. That's to be weighed. So we think that if you read, obviously, the lower it goes, the probably the better it is as far as being compliant. In the traffic study, our traffic engineer can come up and give you some more information about that, but maybe that's a good thing for him to do, because he had some comments. Come on, Robert. He had some issues that he wanted to make sure we're in the record also. So the question was whether if we annotate to 0.35, what happens to the issues you have in your traffic analysis? Well, let me talk about those couple of points on the screen. If you could speak up a little bit more often. I just want to address those two points that are on the screen in front of us here. We did not approve the traffic study because Berserot is not uninterrupted graphic. It's not, you know, once you have five, six signals from Vincent all the way to the East West connector, the problem with the uninterrupted graphic, actually, I've not used it with any other applicant, right, is it increases the capacity of the world way by about 80%. So what they're saying is, even if we with an FAR of one, we don't need to do anything. It meets the level of service there's no deficiency. So that's the concern that we have is, even with FAR of one, there's no deficiency. And we know from reviewing other traffic, and our methodology is to use the vested approved rights as well, which they did not use. They used a 6.7, something FDOT growth rate, but per our unit code, traffic and back statements have to use the background approved traffic, which is different than a DOD growth rate that there's not a whole lot of growth or something going on on a corridor. So those are the two items that are concerned, you know, to us as far as traffic. They want to come in in the future, and if you want to prove something or what have you, they need to, in my opinion, take account, follow our methodology. Yes, it will show deficiency, but at least we know, it's a deficiency, and then any future phases will have to meet concurrency based on the revised traffic impact statement for that. So that's what we have the concern about the report. However, if I may continue, it's true. I hope you're going to ask a question to my head. Go ahead. The question I really have, Robert, is that are you in a position today to be able to professionally state that if the FAR was changed, a note was put on the comp plan of FAR 0.35 on this piece of property, would you feel comfortable without a modification, without their traffic impact statement complying with the standards that you have to adhere to. I mean, then they will not be following our Munich code. I'm saying if they're going to have to, I'm going to support our staff commissioners as far as our professionals. I respect you, sir, but I'm going to take their position. So I'm saying is, do they have to, I need some guidance here, do they have to change their TIS to your standards, the methodologies that you have? I would like for it. Do they have to in order for you to be able to recommend it? He's my concern is uninterrupted flow, right? They said they don't have to do anything. They meet level of service. They come in in the future and say, hey, this is still uninterrupted flow. And we're going to follow that methodology. I'd like to follow our methodology. Now, do they have to revise the report or with understanding that the next time they submit a graphic report, they will have to follow our own methodology which is not considering the uninterrupted graphic and they have to follow and not just the growth rate but that proved development along the way, pretty much similar to what we've been doing along the way. So that's so I don't want this to be okay, you know, we're moving forward with something to play. And then you come in and then your traffic report will still show how it's a rapid traffic and a road traffic. We're gonna give the applicant's attorney an opportunity to rebutton a minute here, but before we do that, Sean, could you come up and talk to me a little bit about the code provision that is the direct answer that the commissioners are asking, which is, can we accept the traffic report if we did the annotation? Yes, you could accept it theoretically. Staff would be uncomfortable because we would not know what that number means or what that potential could be on the actual right. I understand that was my concern too. I just wanted to get it on the record. I guess the really Mr. Chairman, I think that fundamentally I think it boils down to is the applicant willing to continue this to work this out and consider all the factors. I mean that's really where I'm heading with this thing. Can I ask a question? Yes sir. You didn't ask it. I thought you were going to. I'm sorry. How do we know what the traffic impacts are really going to be until we know what the uses are? We don't. We don't. And it's been stated that there are heavier uses and lesser uses. So I know they're using a formula right now. Right. So we're not going to know exactly no matter what happens. Until such time, the applicant comes forward with a project and says, I'm going to do a medical center. I'm going to do a fast food restaurant. I'm going to do a, so all those things are going to impact. Am I correct? Right. Yes. So I think we can accept the formula. The 0.35. I think we can accept the formula. The point three five. I think we can accept that formula. But we're not going to know the real impacts till they come back. And at that such time, we may see a different impact that may need to be adjusted to. If I may respond. No, I just want to throw that out there. At the time they come in for site development approval, if they have to do a traffic impact statement for that site plan. Correct. Correct. And if in fact that deviates significantly what's taken place at this stage in the process, what governs the new one? Well the FA, whatever Florida area ratio you do, whether I'm say 0.25 for just random numbers, that would be what governs. So if they put all of that on the front 20 acres of it, then they won't be able to develop anything to the rear. The problem is that you will never see this back again. If approved, you will not see any of this back again because again going to the CG zoning. If you make these decisions today. And that is fully within your purview. You will not see anything. There will be no public hearings for anything. The point of information, they still have to meet the requirements of traffic when they bring back a development. Yes, sir, but you folks won't have any sense. Well, we already have that in place. Let me just ask one more question. It's so Sean. have that in place. This is just one more question. So Sean, I think the question that Commissioner was asking though is when it comes back for the site plan approval, even if it's at the administrative level. And there's an annotation of whatever that annotation is, that will govern the traffic study at that point, right? That, correct. Yes, that and the traffic study have to work together. Now, Mr. Chair, I would recommend that we give this people an opportunity to rebut. Whenever it's your, whenever it's your, your feet are hurt. He's good with it. Because I want to make sure he doesn't. She needs to, while the evidence is fresh, what is our hear, she needs that opportunity to get it over. It's time for a year's record. Thank you. I just wanted to make a quick point. So if you, we have two requests in front of you guys today. We have the future land use map amendment, which you have seen the worst case scenario for that. And if you want to put an annotation on the future land use map, capping the FAR at something reasonable within the numbers we've discussed today, any traffic study that we could do today, based on what we know, would come back looking even better than the one that we have submitted. So what you guys have been presented with is worst case scenario. By capping the FAR, we're good there. As far as not coming back on this, I'm going to use my words carefully. You don't have to continue both requests. Correct. We could continue one, but it would only make sense if there was one or two decisions made on the future land use map. So that's just a point I wanted to clarify here. Jason, did you have anything on the side? Well, Commissioner Daudi, your conversation is actually what I was trying to get to at some point be, I guess, a general about it earlier is. At the end of the day, we still have to mitigate, still still have to do improvements Still have to show what that impact is we don't know I think to make sure to Commissioner Trex's point what is Lee County doing? So all of that has to be taken care of that's correct We're and we're gonna do that. That's fine. We're happy to do that when we know what the traffic conditions are Clarifications, Chairman? Yes. Are you saying that if we were to move ahead with the land use plan amendment with a FAR restriction of 0.35, you would accept that and you would continue, be willing to continue the rezoning to provide staff some more time. You guys can all work together to provide more information. Are you saying that? I think that's what you were saying. That's what I heard Ms. Titles say, I think. Just want to confirm it. We're verifying with the property owner. But conceptually, I think that's a very reasonable outcome here. So it would be a motion to approve the conflant of the redeeorants with an annotation and then a motion to continue, a request to continue the zoning to the neck to what? I think we just, if that's where you're, I mean, obviously I prefer that both, but if you're gonna go with that second part of it, then I think it's just continue it, and definitely're, I mean, I'm saying prefer that both, but if you're gonna go with that second part of it Then I think it's just continue it and definitely right until we bring it back at appropriate time where everybody's It may not be the CG and reality there's other zoning districts You could apply for it as a PD district or you know there's lots of other I want to jump the gun to quick Mr. Chairman if I'll move an ordinance of the Board of County Commission is the Charlotte County floor of pursuant to section 163.3187 floor Statutes adopting a small scale plan amendment to change Charlotte County Fluem series map number one 2030 future land use from burnt store limited developed BDSD to commercial COM for property located at 17150 burnt store road in the Punggorda area and within the boundary of the burnt store area plan area containing 41.31 plus or minus acres commission commission district to petition number PAS-23-00004. Applicant Jackson Fisher LLC providing an effective date. And with the understanding, the annotation will be placed on the map, restricting the FAR to 0.35. Is that clear enough, Mr. David? Second. Motion second. Commissioner Constance. Thank you. I guess I have a question for the applicant though. What is the issue with having the same approach to the traffic study as staff does? So, you know, you're, I mean, you know, you're saying it's uninterrupted. They've, we have our traffic engineer who's basically said that's, that's not the truth. And it won't be the truth moving forward from here. So, apples and oranges, which, which are we talking about? Honestly, it's, it was a timing thing. This traffic study was submitted in April. We never received any comments about that issue until the staff report came out. So I didn't, we didn't know it was the issue. And so then moving forward, so that was June, right? So then here we are today, are we going forward with the future land use map? Oh, but there is a one, I think technically. But the point is, you know, it's kind of no harm no foul. We, you know, I sit here and I understand that. And, you know, I guess timing has something to do with it. But at the end of the day, it is what it is. So, you know, postponing this hearing altogether or continuing what we're doing until you're able to get on the same page with SAF, you know, it's cleaner. I don't, what I worry about is setting precedent, okay? Because now what we're doing is we're finagling little changes on property and we're setting a precedent. So now the next person that comes up is going to do the same thing. They're going to find some issue with our procedure or a timing thing and they're going to say, say well but you made a special exception over there on that with that ordinance so now we expect you to do the same thing. To answer your question on the uninterrupted flow if you see on the screen there Charlotte County staff says signals have been planned along the corridor, they need to be planned and programmed. So funded, so the signals that were adopted in July have an idea of when they may be constructed, but they're not programmed. Okay, I need to be fun. Michelle, or I need staff now to contribute that. I mean, this is, you know, I want to, this is actually what I want to that. I want to see the debating going on between the two sides. We asked questions and we have to figure it out. You have a very strong opinion. I appreciate that. But so does staff. Mr. Fakler. This is dynamic corridor. Those developments have been in the work. All right. And those development have been in the works. Name for the record? Again? Or what? Oh, is it on? Yeah, it's on. He's just getting closer. I'm sorry. You know, this is a dynamic corridor. And these development have been in the works for years. And the graphic impact statements, yes, the agreement was in June or July. It's been in the works for years. And we know, I mean, this is something that's not like, maybe, maybe not. We know of five, six signals that's going to be on the road, which eliminate the uninterrupted traffic flow. So, you know, in addition to that, we have in the CIP what's called intersection improvements funded. We don't go on list, intersection we're gonna do a signal like now, we're doing two signals on one road. You're not gonna find, oh, that location will have a signal. We'll use the intersection improvement funds when the signal is warranted based on any roadway. We'll go ahead and design it and build it. So you're not gonna see a list of a signal per se coming on the road and it's dynamic, you know, like you said, the applicant is required to build that road that signals has its own cost and you cannot move forward for the other phases, right? This is phase one. These three signals are phase one out of other phases. So if he doesn't build the signal, he will not get approval for future development or other phases. So it is critical. It's going on right now. We have discussions with the traffic engineer who is working on the design of those signals. So it's going to happen, I mean, in the near future. It's not to the benefit of the applicants, not to signals. So it's going to happen, I mean, in the near future. It's not through the benefit of the applicants, not to do it. It's going to happen. We're planning ahead for it. I appreciate that. Can I help you get there hopefully? Well, yeah, I was going to ask for us today with the comments. Despite the debate of, and part of the point is, that's why this is a planning exercise, right? Because with those signals, our built in 20 years, we all doing traffic studies based on 30 years. Are we all doing traffic studies based on that? For me, not being the transportation expert, but for me, getting us moved beyond this, because it's not a yes or no thing based on traffic. If we come back with another study and say, I think the gentleman said that the first time he spoke, if you come back and we see there's $100 million in improvements they have to be made. And we know that our development at the max of the max would have to do that. Maybe it's less when we come back to the site plan as Commissioner Dory is referring to. But then we'll have to do that. that all gets done through the site development planning process and through the end of the process through concurrency. I have never done concurrency in 22 years at the future land use level. It's a planning action. I say, hey, you know what, we may have signals. 20 years we've got to start planning for? I get that. I understand that. So I don't think it's necessary as much of a debate between each other is everybody's taking it as. But to me, it's not the sole purpose of yes or no. All right so to Mr. David and Sean have we ever done an FAR annotation on the on a lot of land we have yes we've done for residential we've done numerical and for commercial we have done FAR I just want to point out while they were discussing while you folks were discussing, I pulled up one of the project, Starling, the Taylor Morrison project, which is north of the little row of like ranch at type lots. And in that project that was done in the site plan, final site plan was approved in 2023, so it went in May of 2023 so it went before the board probably in June. There was a condition on that document that prior to any final plat being scheduled for BCC public hearing the county and applicant shall agree to the terms of the developer's agreement describing the design and installation of the project warranted traffic signal, the design and construction of the signal shall be at the applicant's own expense. So these traffic signals for these developments have been in the works with these various planned developments. I was just pulling up one of them with the final details site plan. Traffic signal at the applicant's expense, but what about timing and is there funding that's escrow because you can make those requirements? Those were the agreements that you just heard right before your break. If you recall, when we did the three final plads, we had public works came in that morning with the three agreements for the track that they are discussing, but those plans have been in the work since when these PDs were going forward. So this is not something that was just sprung at the July, I believe July 11th or so hearing. This was these were all contemplated projects. Just to elaborate a little bit on the agreement, they cannot get these early phases, like 438 units. They will not be able to get more than 300 COs without the traffic signal being installed. So it's crucial for them to have them installed. And at 100 units, they need to notify the county that they have elected an engineer who's designing the traffic systems, which they've did already and they're moving forward. Commissioner, if I might. So the item that you're on right now is essentially a legislative decision. It is, I think you heard plenty from back and forth between the experts. It would be my view that this is essentially a policy change to allow commercial in this area. Currently, you have to have a comp plan change in order to allow commercial on this site. That's really the decision here. The traffic issues are going to become more and more right as we get closer and closer to an actual development plan. The statute does require that we consider these things when we're going forward, but it's not a dispositive question before you want this type of an application. I appreciate that, and I thank you for the comment, and I wish there had to have been a compliant amendment when they turned commercial property into water retention ponds. Because I think that would have been interesting for us to be hearing that. But somehow staff felt that that was something they could take care of on their own. I think that had to do with the road widening. No, I know exactly what it had to do with the road widening, but still, it shouldn't be ministerial that they take land. I'll say this again. I think the word planner at sometimes is a dirty word because you know it's like scuba diving. You plan your dive and you dive your plan. You don't plan your dive and then go down and come up and go down and come up and go down and come up and say, hey, what do I have the bends? Because you didn't stick to your plan. So when planners plan things out, that's the way it's supposed to stay. And if you're going to go changing things that are pretty significant, because now we're having to fix something that didn't need fixing, but now needs fixing. There was no question. Thank you. I have my attorney said there's no question. Thank you. Mr. Deutsch. Wait, hang on. No, no,. Thank you. Mr. Duig. Oh, for your dental service. No, sorry. And the point is, I know there's outcry from the community to have commercial property. So again, the only hesitancy that I have here is I don't want to do things that we haven't done before, but it looks like we're on solid ground. The other part of this, though, is, again, we don't know what they're going to put there. So the folks in this room for the most part with maybe three or four exceptions want this to move forward. I know there's been a need for commercial and I'm leaning towards supporting this but be aware. If we don't get what has been promoted, okay, because they're not giving us names of any specific businesses, there's lots of rumors. But if this becomes some other commercial enterprise or something else happens, we don't, they now will have land rights. They will have property rights. They will be able to do what they want to do with that property commercially. And as long as they meet staff's requirements, it's never going to come before us. We're not going to see a PD. No, not till the zoning's done. Well, zoning still has to come back to us. We're going to hear this again. Because we're going to see it in the part of the yard. Yeah, yeah, just wanted to make a done. No, after that, yes. You'd be correct. I just want to make sure. But unless they come back and they do zoning and they do a PD. Yeah, then it could in that right. Would be advisable because then we would see what's going on. But okay. As soon as it's continued, it will have to come back. Right. I'm Commissioner Doig. I'm beginning to think I was clean-shaver when the slings started. You haven't been clean-scientists, I've known you. I was born with a beard. I'm going to pick up on Chris' comments on planners. I can share with you and hate to ruin our relationship. And I remember the first time I challenged him in my own mind. But I think that Shoeen is an excellent excellent planner and over the years he's been here. We've only disagreed very few times. This probably being one of them. And we had a similar discussion, not quite as long in my office when we got involved with traffic flow. I'm not requesting I be qualified as an expert. However, I did spend 15, 20 years as a city and town planner. I was a member of the American Institute of Plandas, the American Planning Association, and actually president of state association for two years. I got a little bit of planning experience. Our meetings are usually very short because he comes in, I know what he's talking about, and we get out and we're gone. And you, I also respect you as a planner. We don't always all agree, even on politics sometimes. But I have to tell you this, I did disagree, and we did talk about some of these issues in my office and we focused on the flow. And I had a lot of questions on it because I felt that we were really moving ahead of the game because we really weren't at a position to accurately talk about the flow. I also, as most of you know, think of myself as a constitutionalist and believe very much in terms of a property's own levels, constitutional right of self-determination with their property. Those issues are very, very important to me. But I do respect our staff and this is one of the rare occasions I disagree with them. Restriction in flow and restriction of speed. Traffic's going to slow down on bird store road. It's going to have to. But the change in flow, the addition of signification, is going to slow down traffic. Slowing down traffic, I don't see as a negative factor for something commercial. Because common sense tells you it makes it a little easier and safer to get in and out if you're doing 30 miles an hour as opposed to doing 55 or 60 miles an hour. But I do want to share something with the residents. And by the way, we appreciate you're coming out. We love to hear your point of view. You guys have been respectful. You've shared your thoughts and ideas. And every one of us, we welcome that. And we appreciate it. So however, there's a couple of things I want to share with you. And number one, we can talk about all of the details and all of the traffic records we can pull up in all the planning history we can put up. The simple factor, there's one thing that's going to determine whether you get a supermarket in there or what you're going to get in commercial or if you're going to get another restaurant, it's rooftops. Because Joe blows super market, whether it's Windix or Publix or all these or Stop and Job or whatever you want to call it. Isn't going to come in there because they believe there's enough rooftops that it's going to make sense for them to build a building and serve the community. So there's got to be a balance there. And I don't want to go into all the details that we were started arguing and hearing about. I support this. I want to vote for it. But I think that we need to have an open eye and take a look at what's happening. Bernstraw Road's and a change of flux, it's going to be changing. I can remember a Christmas, 20 years ago, this Christmas going down to visit some people on Burnstrow Road, and it was a drizzly rainy night and it was a skinny one light. And I can tell you, it was a scary ride. Doin' 45, 50 miles an hour on a curvy road where it was locked and there were no lights you couldn't see where you were going and that was like you know it seemed like it was yesterday but I support this I think we maybe it's a little bit of a leap of faith on the part of our board it doesn't mean Sean and you know that I'm not supporting you guys. You know, we disagree, and I said we'd be talking about it here. But I think we have to sometimes take a leaf of faith, we have to move ahead. And also, what we like to do when we can't, we like to listen to what the people in the community have to say too. And according to my notes, about 90% of the people that spoke, there was only one room that I picked up objective to it. So, you know, I'd like to see us support it. I'd like to see us move ahead. And I think it's what we should be doing. Thank you. Thank you. We have a motion. We have a second. Any other questions, comments or remarks? Hearing none is their opposition to the motion. Hearing no opposition to passes unanimously. Mr. Chairman, a question for Mr. David. A process of procedure. Does the applicant need to now weigh in and request the continuing? Yes. Commissioners, thank you so much. We really appreciate the opportunity to stay in front of you today and we appreciate your understanding of the request. We are certainly in agreement that a continuance on the zoning would be very reasonable here. We would request that it's continued not to a date certain, simply to allow us the time to prepare the traffic impact statement and work out some of these issues with staff. But again, thank you very much for your time today. We appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. We don't need a motion officially. We can do that. I think it would be best to just have a motion. Keep your words continue. Okay. Have a motion to continue. Have a second? Okay. All right. Any discussion? Here are none, any opposition. Hearing none, opposition. It is continued. Okay. Our next item. You be three. P.A.L. dash 24 dash 02. Tag lakeside large scale. Plan amendment to medium density residential. Miss Xiaoyu are recognized. Yeah. If you can go ahead and take it outside, please thank you. We still have a hearing. Ladies and gentlemen, please take it outside. Thank you. We still have work to do. Good afternoon for the record. J. Shell Committee Department Department. Cad Lakeside, OLC is requesting a large scale plan amendment, petition number PL-24-02. And today's hearing is for the Transmetal Hearing for only the large scale plan amendment. The applicant is also concurrently requesting the PD rezoning, the position of the PD-24-02. So why do we, my presentation, I needed to present their proposed general PD concept plan because they are related with this large scale plan. And the adoption hearing for both items is scheduled for November 26, 2024. So the proposed large scale plan is from low density residential LDR for approximately 138.32 acres and commercial COM for approximately 1.56 acres to medium-density residential with an annotation to limiting the overall maximum density to 1488 units and increasing density from 135 units to 1,188. The applicant is also requesting a rezoning from Plan Development PD for approximately 138.32 acres and Committer-General CG for approximately 1.56 acres to PD, which will be presented to the Board of Accounting Commissioner on the November 26, 2024 for adoption. So the request PD rezoning is also the applicant's requesting to adopt the General PD concept plan. So in order to allow for residential, multi-family development of up to 1,188 units, and I'll simply increase the density from the base density to 135 units to 1188 and requiring a transfer of 153 density units to reach the maximum the proposal of 1188 and the subject property is located in commission district one. The notification of public hearings for these two applications was sent to the property owner and Jason property owners within one thousand of the subject property you can see on the screen. And this is a free more map. I duplicate that so I skip this one. So the subject property, this is general location, the subject property is located in the east county area. And this is the 2050 framework map. The subject property is designated as maturing neighborhood. And this is the 2030 feature land use map, the majority of site is designated as low density residential. And there's 1.56 acres of the property is designated as commercial. So on screen shows if you approve this large-scale plan amendment, the entire subject property will be designated as medium-density residential with a notation to the 23rd future land use map to limit the maximum density of 1,188 units. So the site is designated, the majority of sites are designated as PD, only a small portion is currently zone time, so a zone CG. So if you approve, the property will not be pd. So, because there is a little bit of history of the subject property, I would like to briefly discuss history of the subject property. So, in July 2006, the Board of County Commissioners approved rezoning from agriculture state, AE2 plan, development for a person 138.82 acres, which you can see on the screen, this portion, the PD, back to 2006, for a mixed use development, which include the resident development on up to 351 units, and also neighborhood commercial users for approximate 2.87 acres on the site. So in May 2014, the Board approved a PD rezoning for the same amount of site, which is a major modification to the existing PD by reducing the maximum allowable residency from 351 units to 300 or three units. And also changing the housing types for this project. And also using a portion of the property which is located at the southwest corner of the site, continue approximately two acres for outdoor storage uses for this residential neighborhood. So as of today, no final detail site print or transfer density units application has been submitted since 2014, the PD is only. So now the applicant has requested a large-scale plan amendment to change the subject property featuring industry designations to medium to medium-density residential and with PD rezoning. So the subject property is located along the west side of US-17, which is located within the US-17 area plan, while the county encouraged developers or property owners to preserve and enhance the natural environment and to promote mixed-use development. So although the proposed residential multifamily development is not a type of mixed use development. The proposed development was preserved. I want to show you the same. Was preserved approximately 48.9 acres of scrap j habit head and approximately 11.77 acres of the area for the quick preserved area. So you can see on the screen actually this is the 4-squap J Preserved area which contains approximately 48.9 acres and also will preserve the quick preserved area. It's the branch for approximately 11.7 acres. So the proposed residential development, it is staffed professional opinion that the proposed development is consistent with the US-17 plan, trying to preserve the natural resources and also try to encourage the development along US-17. So the proposed residential multifamily development is also consistent with future land use fluke policy 6.3.9 encouraged uses that the county shall encourage mixed use development converging of mobile homes to conventional site build homes and leave workspace and bed breakfast and multi-family development along US 17 quarter. So, and I need to go back. You can see that the proposed Gen. PD concept plan overlay on the Coastal High Hazard area, so which you can see the majority side is located outside of Coastal High Hazard area. Actually the multi-family buildings will be all located outside of the Coastal High Hazard area. the proposed development. So we believe staff professional opinion, the proposed development is not country to policy, specifically related to development within the coastal high high area as established in county comprehensive plan because they preserved all this area within Kostoha has area which is within that 11.77 creek preserved area. So the proposed residential development will have approximately 8.5 units per acre which contains higher density than the established residential neighborhood at 5 units per acre located to the southeast and north of the subject property. However, the subject property is located on the US 17, which is one of the major therapists in the east county area. The proposed large-scale plan amendment and its associate PD rezoning will allow the county to place sufficient condition to minimize adverse impacts of the proposed residential environment on neighboring property owners. So I just want to point out this. You can see on the screen is a proposed general PD concept plan. So there is the PD condition like also the concrete and notation to limited the maximum density for the site is 1188 units and also the PD condition required to have specific design building material and the counters to be consistent which we have specifically requiring all commercial design standards but we use the specific sections 3-5-508 for building materials and counters for this mothe family development. And also the proposed PD condition F and H requires to preserve approximately 48.9 acres of scrapjet habitat and 11.77 acres of quick area. And its associate upland compared to the current required approximate 25.35 acres of preservation area under the existing PD for the residential development. And also this PD rezoning, I know today you will not make any motion to the PD rezoning but because they are so related, I just want to be aware, the PDA region required a native habitat management plan to restore and protect and preserve the quick area. And also the PDA condition addressed the HCP fee. They are required to pay the HCP fee within 30 days after the board approved the P rezoning. And also PD condition K requires an enhanced buffer landscaping for this project. And also very specifically the proposed PD condition KNO and P address traffic safety issue and concern. So in conclusion, it is step professional of pinning that the proposed large scale amendment is consistent, is general consistent with county's comprehensive plan and Section 163-317 for the law and the county's code of law and ordinance and other applicable guidelines. Now I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. Other questions at this time? What? Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. On the history of the property, I've talked about a preservation of the scrub J acreage in there, but that goes away when they pay the fee. Maybe Tina ought to come up and talk about that. Tina's policy. Okay. I was just on page three of the staff report. Good afternoon, Tina Powell, Parks and Natural Resources Manager. The required preservation of Scrib J. Habitat, it would go under a conservation easement and it would be in perpetuity. Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair. And does it help our HCP moving forward? Yes, this parcel is in the reserve area. So the conservation easement document that would also grant management authority to the county allows us to count that 48 acres toward our acquisition goals. How many acres did you say? 40. Okay, thank you. Good afternoon, Mr. Bernson. I'd say good evening personally, but I'll give you that in 20 minutes. If you can speed it up, they'll say good evening as you leave. Okay. Hopefully I won't even be here to hear it. Rob Bernson, big W law, I have been sworn in. And I am here today with the development team. We are here only on the complement amendment from a low density to medium density residential and commercial general to medium density residential. I think it's important to recognize the property has a history as Michelle went through. We do accept Michelle as an expert for this hearing. It's currently approved for over 300 manufactured homes today and a preserve of 25.35 acres over the entire site. What we are proposing today, while it increases density, it also bumps the preservation area to over 60 acres total between the scrub J area and the creek area. So there's a lot more preserved. I think you'll hear some testimony from people that are concerned about the Gofort Tortuses on site. There are a ton of Gofort Tortuses on site here. They will have to be dealt with through the agencies. Many of them are located, almost half of them are located in the preserve areas to begin with, so those will remain in the preserve areas. The others have to be relocated. But under what's approved today, if you deny this, there's a larger area of where the gopher tortoises are not in preserve areas that would have to be relocated. And again, that is dealt with at the development stage. But I think it's important for purposes of this hearing today to let you know that we do join in all of the conditions that are contained within the PD ordinance when that comes back to you. Should this be transmitted and then come back to you for adoption. This is a property located on US 17 a major thoroughfare in that part of the county. It's part of the US 17 plan that does recognize the need for multi-family housing as part of the development of that plan. So I'm going to reserve any rebuttal time, but concur with the staff report and respectfully request that you transmit this. And if I have to address any comments, I'll be happy to come up and do that. Just one question and maybe teen and ease to answer this, but will you be able to relocate those in the conservation area on site or do they have to go off site? I don't know. Okay. We have our environmental. I know when you can keep separation, you have the ability to do on site, as I've done before, but. FWC may allow some on site relocation, but it's gonna depend on what the density in the conservation area already is. So they'll be good. So you were worried about density with Gulf of Tortoise's too? Yes. I might awake worrying about that all. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. I have a question. This may go to staff in the applicant. The water and sewer concurrency. The utility that currently would be operating this area is in receivership. And it talks about the utility, you know, Charlotte County Utility potentially, I guess at our discretion, if we wanted to provide water service, I want to make sure that there's nothing in here, and I read the condition. So I just want to make sure I'm reading the condition properly. Nothing in this staff report would require Charlotte County utilities to provide water. You're correct. Okay. And also, there's specific said they have private provider. If they could not do it, they must come back for major modification to the speedy reason. You were bring back to the board. So that's our understanding as well. We are not, there is a bigger picture happening in this area with regards to utilities. We understand right now who our service provider is and we are looking to the future. We understand the condition within the PD is that we have to have central water and sewer so that has to be worked out before we can get final PD approval. Right now believe what the staff report talks about for Sue or is that they would have the ability to provide their own sewer service. But that would require a PD major, major market. Right, okay. I just want to be clear because I know that was a sticky subject with the receivership. And I believe that that utility would require an extensive amount of funding to get it up to standards. And I just want to get it up to standards. I just want to make sure we're clear. There would be at this resumming. Yeah, okay. Point. Thank you, thank you. All right, now for the questions this time, we're going to open up the public input portion, the public hearing anyone wishing to speak on this item may come forward, please state your name for the record and you'll have up to five minutes. Anyone wishing to speak? My name is Courtney Mason. Can you pull the microphone over to a little closer? Thank you. My name is Courtney Mason and I live in Peace River Shores, which is adjacent to the TAG's proposed development. I do have some folders for you guys. That shows the density of the tortoise population because I do live and breathe about tortoises. And you can see whenever you get them, you can see how dispersed they are and it's just, it's gonna be devastating to all of them. So I'm gonna start off with saying that my grandfather was Dr. Walter Offenberg and he was a herpetologist for the University of Florida and curator for the Florida Museum of Natural History. He was mostly known for his research on commoto dragons amongst other countless species. I recently found that he had two books published in the 1970s regarding Goal for Tortuses. He knew that if he did not conduct research and awareness on these magnificent creatures that they would become extinct. His efforts along with his colleagues have paved the way towards greater laws and conservation regarding goal first. While their efforts have resulted in avoiding their extinction or severe decline, goal first cannot continue to keep up with the never ending development. On-per-seemed circumstances should prohibit development of or near crucial Gulf or Habitat and where large populations currently live. Tax property is heavily populated with Gulf or Tortoise's and three out of four the parcels are crucial scrub J Habitat. A protected species assessment was completed in 2014 resulting in 174 boroughs. In 2023 there were 254. I am pleased that the county is requesting to obtain over 60 acres preserved out of the 139 total acres, however I'm still concerned with the population. Tag development will result in the relocation and destruction of many of those burrows as you can see if you're looking at the map. As you may know, the general public is outraged by the surprise of the proposed development on several state parks in Florida. There is a high level of distress towards the government, along with a sense of feeling of hopelessness. I understand that the total density of the county does not increase, but it transfers to other areas. I don't think this is the right property, even though they're already approved to develop right now since 2014. It was supposed to be a 55 of an older community. They have massive, massive, gold, gold for tortoises. Most of the land being scrubbed, they have a tatton, possible pollution to our main waterways be a leigh Branch Creek, which runs through the entire property and is connected to vital bodies of water. I know that tag will eventually develop their property, but I hope that this will lead to future changes in procedures and laws to prevent significant impacts on wildlife and what little habitat that is left for them. I will continue reflecting my grandfather's passion, research, and conservation efforts on behalf of the general public. My current focus is to quickly spread public awareness of how many tortoises that will be affected by the tag development. While I understand that there are many circumstances where golfers must be relocated, there must be a change to prevent approving or considering development on land that is home to so many. One electronic update I would like to see created would be for the county to be alerted when someone applies for a building permit on land that has known goal for tortoises. The county already gets alerted for scrub jays, so maybe there could be goal for zones too. Another change would be to require goal for surveys on land along with helpful information about them and scrub jays before allowing vacant property to follow through with closing. Unfortunately, there are many people who buy land without physically looking at it or knowing the protected species laws. This gets them stuck owning a property and realizing that there are multiple tortoises located on it and it's in scrub day zone. This can lead to people illegally relocating the tortoises, burying them alive, or crushing them with their land clearing machinery. People do this because they don't want to pay the high permitting fees. Waste time applying for permits have no concern for wildlife or they just aren't educated on the species. FWC issues relocation permits for golfer tortoises. This often results in confusion, disease, territorial behaviors, lower breeding success, and mortality. Due to their natural instincts, they will continue to look for the safety of their previous borough that was destroyed. It takes 10 to 15 years to reach their breeding age and they can live 60 to 80 years. Their boroughs are used by 360 other species, which makes them a keystone species. The Center for Biological Diversity States at FWS or FWS used a flawed model and greatly overestimates the future Gulfer population in the next 80 years. They did their own model and it's predicted that there will be 1% of Gulfers by the year 2100. And there's ongoing lawsuit against them and FWS. As far as taxes goes, I'm sorry. Can I move on a little bit? No, your time is up, ma'am sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? You have five minutes. Hi, my name's Christopher Zitler. I live on Hillock Street in Peace River Shore, so that last building, if you go across the railroad tracks, that would be my property. I have, we moved to the area in 1981. I grew up in the area, moved away a few times, including Southeast Asian stuff, always moved back and was happy to get the opportunity to move back to my family's property and to move back to Charlotte County, which I love so much. What's great about this area is how it is now. It's a beautiful area. It's semi-rural. Yes, I have to drive 10 miles to go to a grocery store and that's not a problem because I have a car. But the area is pristine. I've grown up with that property. Back in the day, there used to be an animal sanctuary on that property. So there was Lions Tigers and Bears, which was the name of it. But I've also grown up with that property being natural. That creek, unfortunately, is struggling as it is. Lee Branch is struggling, and that's because of DOT and they're work on the road. So nothing to do with what's going on here. But what isn't struggling is a scrub day habitat and the Goford courtesans. In Peace River shores, we have an abundance of Goford's tours, This is it's great. It's amazing having them around. On my property alone, I probably got 25. I do also have scrub jays. Again, I live across. I've seen the scrub jays. I do know that they go over there. I do know that there are bald eagles over there, because I can see them. I don't know if there is currently in this, but traditionally there has been. I know the water utility in that area is, let's just say what it is, it's belly up. It's not a functional entity, and it really hasn't been serving what it was supposed to. So these people, in the meantime, are they going to dry out our wells Pulling water directly from that area. So I mean is this developer gonna pay for my new well They'll probably have to get because of it. I don't know I can't see the future but that is definitely a possibility The light pollution. I mean it's a beautiful area. That is definitely a a concern. And I love the fact that they are or at least Gaslighting the scrub J preserve up there but there is a much bigger area. I Don't mind them building houses or something there like a nice ranch head style house like you know with Some property around it things like that, but this density., with some property around it, things like that. But this density, we don't need multi-unit like that. We're getting due flexes in piece-for-vershore's alone. Probably like they're starting a new one a week, at least. So there's housing opportunities. These look more like they'll end up being for people that pay high bucks for it, or the person's just going gonna flip out the property as soon as he's done building in the sky as money. Again, obviously the person that bought the property needs to make a buck. That's the only reason they're there. Otherwise they would be somewhere else. But at the expense of all the wildlife there, I can tell you, go out there, walk out there. You go out there for a day. Like just check out the property and see how pristine it is for yourselves before you make a decision it's a beautiful property and let's keep the building on it as minimal as possible thank you sure anyone else was seen to speak outside? Mr. Chairman, I see no one else rising. It's close both again. Both are setting the clothes in the opposition hearing none passes unanimously Mr. Birch, you recognize yes just briefly we provided Miss Shao with the drawing I think it's similar to what you got in your package there, showing where the potential tortoise burrows are. According to our environmental consultant, they typically find one for two. That not every one of these is a go for tortoise burrow. It's typically about half of them turn out to be go for tortoises when they do the field. Again, if we were coming to you today and this property was designated preservation and we were asking for this, it would be a much different request. But this property already has a plan development approved on it that preserves less property than we are proposing in this proposal. And it's basically bringing the density into the middle of the site to allow for the preservation. And that preservation also comes with the payment of the fee. So you're not only getting the preservation, you're also getting payment of over $800,000 in the scrub J.P. Again, this is the transmission, transmission, here only. We believe the staff report and the testimony that we provided to you today justifies the transmission and we respectfully request that you transmit this and bring it back for a approval and PD rezoning. And like I said, we do accept all of the conditions that have been proposed in the PD. Thank you. I'm sure any questions. Very good. Commissioner Dordy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Rob, the only thing in the staff report and commission to sale brought it up on water, waste water. I understand if you can't do this, it's stated in the report. There'd be a major mod on the PD. I would really like to get an update when we talk about November 26th for the adoption. Working with CCU and maybe Todd, I think Todd, you're the engineer, get with CCU and get us an update because quite honestly, what I understand currently relative to the request of Charlotte County to take water supply by the water authority is not probably going to be there. So I think I need to have a better understanding what is plan B instead of just rolling the dice. I mean let's get some of that addressed. Wastewater looks more manageable. I mean if you can work that out. Water supply is the big one for me right now. And I think I need better understanding. This statement just isn't realistic. And in my opinion. And so I'd like to know that. Now, to be consistent, also, one other issue, a very small portion of this property, coastal high hazard, the creek. Mr. Rebel knows where I've been on other projects. I would request, I can't require it. I would request when you come in for the PD that the engineer of record look at the portion of the property that has been identified. I got the documents from September 28th, 2022, which showed, you know, Ian at a cat four and what the storm surge was. And I can't quite tell because of the scale of the drawing from National Hurricane Center. But it looks like possibly the very southwest portion of the property might have had a one to three foot storm surge. I don't have a topo survey to look at. It probably is not an issue. But I would appreciate if you comment or addressing that at the time of PD. You can address it at the PD. I will confirm as Jay indicated earlier, though, none of our buildings are within the coastal high hazard area. I don't think that's a- I just curious where it is if that can be identified. It's a request. Thank you. It's a request. Thank you. It's so noted. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, regarding the Gofort Tortuses, in the staff report, it talks about 254 potentially occupied Gofort Tortoise boroughs were observed on the parcel. Who did the observing? Because when I looked at the environmental report attached, I think it's Ian Vincent and associates, I didn't really see anything on Go for Tortuses. How were those 254 burrows observed? Who actually did the observations and noted that? It was the employees of the Invention. Because I didn't see it in his report. Did I miss something? There were several reports. Hello, my name is Paul Mann. I've been sworn in. Thank you. I work for Ian Vincent Associates. There's several reports. This one that was submitted is the Habitat Management Plan and the Wetland Qualifications. There may be another Guadalajian Species Assessment that's out there that may not have been included in it. Our biologists walk the property. We have a team of four biologists all go for tortoise agents. We walk the property. We stay within sight of each other, go back and forth, go back and forth. Yeah, but yeah, if it's in the staff report, you've done it. It needs to be an attachment, the record. I mean, it's saying there's 254 tortoise burrows who observed, but there's no backup from professionals. We almost submitted a map, so I don't know if that was... The map was submitted two days ago, so the package already sent out. So that's why I have that information. But when we prepare the package, this information is not there. Only show how many go for tourists, but there's no method with that. Okay, well that answers that. But in the environmental reported, regardless of the map, there's no document that talks about the go for tortoises that were observed and documented. So you observed the burrows, but you didn't confirm if they were actually all occupied, just that they were there. You cannot get time that you excavated. You can't scope them and have that. It's not an accepted practice by FWC. So you can't scope them so you have to you find the borough and then knowing the only way you confirm that is if the boroughs collapsed and abandoned or if you excavated there's a tortoise in there. Okay. I see some. There's another staff member stepping up. Thank you, Tina. Yes. So for Gofortward is permitting purposes, a survey is just all potentially occupied. There's no way to determine occupancy until you relocate them or preserve them. Name for the record. Tina Powell. Sorry. Park Center Resources Manager. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, sir. Commissioner Dordy. Mr. Chairman, move the transmission of petition PAL-24-02. Motion will be held a second. I'll second it. Discussion? Okay, quick question. Yeah. I'm looking at the high hazard area leading into what is the elevation in this property? I need to shift my staff report. I can now remember. That's a really good question. And the only reason I'm asking is because we're going from low density to medium density and since the traumatic experiences we have suffered meteorologically in this county we have to take a closer look at coastal high hazard and you know making sure that if they're flooding occurs and I'm seeing the tropical storm in Ketabria one storm surge areas and of course that's not where there's any dwellings but how much higher the other areas and why don't we have the rest of the colors on this map? You got a map for me, Sean? It's in the staff report. Which state is in the staff report? Yeah, on page 16. See, the subject site is in flood zone X. And what is the map? The map is not. The map is not. It's on page 16. See the subject sites is in flood zone X. The flood zone X is an area in which area determined to be outside of the 0.2% annual flood plain. So we don't have elevation the average elevation. We have an engineer can ask Todd. Yes. mean because you just sometimes some things are 25, 30, even 40 feet above to the point where it's like well we can use this for fill but you know I just I'm just really curious just wanted to know. Good evening. We had a good day before the record. So at this point we haven't completed any kind of topographic survey of the property. I can tell you that the property is pretty high throughout, and it does dive down towards, which is why you can see that all the floodplain in coastal heights isolated to the creek area. Right. What I can do, as Mr. Dordy has already asked me to do for the PD I can come back with some if the GIS would have some decent information or I can pull LiDAR from the water management district just to give you guys an idea but it is high in that area and it dives down into that that creek is pretty is pretty deep relative to the property but I can look into that for you for the PD. Okay, great. Thank you. Any further questions? Very none. We have motion in the second. Is there any opposition to the motion? Hearing no opposition to the motion that passes unanimously and transmits what will happen. That concludes our business for today. I did have one thing I wanted to point out for the Board is that we do have the Junior Commission Program this Thursday afternoon for those that can make it and I look forward to seeing you guys participate. We are.