you We go. Good evening, everyone. The regular meeting for the City Commission for Tuesday, April 8th will come to order. Please rise and remain standing for the pledge of allegiance that's, thank you so much that we get to live in this wonderful community. We're always so grateful for that, Lord. Especially on a day like today, we can just feel your presence pouring down on us, Lord. Father, I pray that you would... We were thankful for these servants here, Lord, in front of us, these elected officials and appointed, and we're grateful that they give us their time. And we ask that you would give them the wisdom knowledge and understanding to make the decisions that they need to make, Lord. Would you have your protection around them? Protect them from the fiery darts of the evil one. We ask this in Jesus' name, Amen. And now Isabel Sorcy, a sixth grader at Sacred Heart Catholic School. Her 12th birthday was three days ago. She's a talented daughter of Jen and Sird Sorcy. She will deliver and lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. She embraces the importance of giving back to her community and is starting now. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Please be seated. Jim and Sir, you have a lot to be proud of. Congratulations. Thank you guys for showing the way for what good parenting's all about. Mr. City Manager, there are any changes to the published agenda? Yes, sir. Just one change under proclamations. We will not be presenting proclamation this evening. Other than that, everything is good. Thank you very much. Under item 4 for announcements and recognitions, I've just got one thing to say to the crowd. How about them gators? Congratulations to the University of Florida, men's basketball team champions. Mr. Manager, we're ready for your reports, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just a couple of meetings that I want to make sure are on everybody's schedule. Wednesday, April 16th at the Brandon Center at 5.30 we have a public meeting concerning the flooding vulnerability assessment. On Thursday, April 17th we have scheduled a city commission workshop to discuss the Deering Park development again that will be at six o'clock in these chambers Thursday, April 17th. Monday, April 21st, we have our annual state of the city presentation. The honorable mayor will be presiding over that event. And then just a couple of announcements I wanted to make tonight. As you know, we have long had recommendations from various study groups concerning parking that we hire a parking director. I'd like to announce this evening that we have done that. We have extended an offer and it has been accepted to Steve Mendegral. He is an ultimate spring resident and he will be coming to us with extensive parking management experience most recently at Disney Springs. So that is very exciting. He will be joining as May 13th. And lastly, I wanted to announce this evening that Chris Kirk has been selected as our next police chief. Chris is sitting in the back here. Applause. Chris has, this is really the result of a nationwide search that we've undertaken. We've got many, many great applicants. Chris, as you know, has served as interim chief for the last couple of months and has done an outstanding job. We've successfully navigated through spring break, bike week and many, many other community events. He has strong support from the police department, from the sworn officers, from the civilian employees there, strong support from the police union, from the police foundation, and many, many other members of the community. So, certainly proud to make that announcement and congratulations to Chris. And we will. Um. We will do a formal ceremony, a swearing in ceremony, and that will be scheduled at some time in the very near future. Thank you. Thanks sir, appreciate that. Very, very good. So let's move on to the Commission's favorite section here, public participation. We're excited to hear what you have to say about matters pertinent to the city. So if you have an idea, you have a concern, you have an accolade for any member of the city staff. We'd love to hear from you. This is not a question and answers ceremony. This will be a monologue, so we won't be answering questions. All you need to do is know that when you come forward, you'll have three minutes. When the light green light comes on, you start. You don't need to take all three minutes, but when the yellow light comes on, there's one minute remaining, and then you need to be done when the red light comes on. For the record, when you come up, offer your name and your address for the record. If we have to, if you need to get back to you, that's why we ask you that. And then on matters appropriate, the city manager of CityCork will get back to you. With that, please come forward and be heard. Real quick, I don't want to use my time right now. Someone picked up a paper outside on the right side of the doors. It has my paperwork underneath it. So for the stuff that's being talked about tonight, if you look under your paper, There is an attachment that says e-bikes If anyone has it, give it to me you're looking for your paper. Yes, okay. I do want to come up. All right. That'll be fine Bye. Good evening. I am Karen Mehal. This is my granddaughter, Zella Mehal. We live at 804 East 23rd Avenue. I stood before you about a month ago. I'm about a half ago. Asking for help protecting our street and our children. My granddaughter was not able to play outside anymore because of what was going on. And I just, we came tonight. You want to tell them, thank you. Thank you. What are you thankful for? Thank you for keeping our world safe. So we wanted to come tonight and tell you thank you to each of you for moving this forward so quickly and taking care of us in our city. So thank you. Thank you, grandma. Nice job. Professor, come forward. come forward. My name is Crystal Sailor. I live at 645 Ball Street. I had emailed all of you with a couple of things. One of them was an article from Scientific American that took data from FEMA about the issues related to fill and build development. On-going issues, not just here, all over the country, and that, you know, doesn't seem to be going well. The first thing I'd like to say is I'd like to request that the first reading of the zoning change for the property owned by Farmington LLC with the planned Dering Park Innovation Center be postponed from the current scheduled time of April 22nd, 2025, so that we can have more workshops and citizen input. I see that you do have a workshop scheduled for the 17th. I am hoping that that's including a Q&A this time. I got lots of cues. So I also included in that a summary of some math, you know, that I love my math, about the implications of reducing the residential tax base. The idea was that the tax base could be reduced from 83% to some 63% I think was the number that I saw. So I took information from your annual comprehensive final report of 2023. That's what I found online. And the data was close enough that I feel really comfortable with it. A residential tax base is over $5.27 billion. To drop that to 63% residential by increasing the combined commercial and industrial would require a more than four times the current value of existing Commercial and industrial we'd have to could ruble what's already there to reduce to 63% To reduce it to 73% Would require more than doubling the existing commercial and industrial just so that we have some sort of relevance of the person. I understand what Mr. Storch's job is. He's supposed to help his clients make as much money as possible from the property owned by Farmington North LLC. He does not represent the current or future residents of NSB. The City Commission represents those people. The current zoning of the 1618 acres intended to be DPIC allows for 140 residential units. The proposed changes would create 2,510 residential units and up to 6 million square feet of non-residential development. Within that 1619 acres there's approximately 662 acres of wetlands and of that 327 acres would be impacted by the proposed development. I also sent a picture, a zone shot of development down south of the town and the clear cut. So my time's running out. I got a lot more I'd like to say. But you know, thank you for the workshop that's going to be next week. Thank you professor. Appreciate that. Appreciate it. Order. So folks we're we had the cheering for the gators and the cheering for the grandma and her grand daughter so let's try to conduct the rest of the evening in the business manner which we customarily do. So please refrain from the cheering and the happy. Jenny, good evening. Hello Virginia Stevens 423 Flagler Avenue. Mary Francis stage 380 Flagler Avenue. And we are here representing Faba tonight. Please vote yes on item 7R on tonight's consent agenda. January is a slow month in New Smirna. So 2100 runners coming from 37 states give our bars, restaurants, shops, and hotels, and motels a big preseason win as participants and their families stay and play on Flagler all weekend long. We think that the small amount that we have to adjust for traffic is a small part to pay for everything this event brings in. So the Flagler Avenue Business Association supports SharkBite. Thank you. Thank you, ladies and appreciate your comments. Mr. Stevens. Terry Stevens, owner with my wife's Virginia of the Seahorse Inn and resident of 810 Faulkner Street. I was once a runner. A ran race is near and far. running introduced me to hundreds of great communities that I have never visited and otherwise. Many I return to year after year. Some of my vacation had. One I moved to. This one. A runner gets to town on Friday. He brings his family. After checking in, he spends his time on Saturday, seeing the communities and visiting the stores and restaurants. These types of events are important. Don't let a communication break down in the past. Stop an event like this from going forward. But make sure you work together to improve things. A little inconvenience for the sake of your community should be overcome. Once again, 500 runners from New Smirna Beach, 1,200 runners from Volusia County, 2,100 runners total from 37 states. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your comments.. Yes ma'am. You're getting better. Almost knocked it out. Yes ma'am. Hi my name is Laurie. I live in Venetian Bay 3310 Bellino Boulevard and I'm here because I want to save my pool and I'm asking all of you to help us. Have you ever seen my pool? The pool club, Tiki Bar, it's quite beautiful. Lori, talk right in that microphone, dear. There you go. I swim in this pool and I feel like I'm on vacation somewhere special. It is truly in our way, sis. Our pool gathered, our neighbors together gave us a place to escape to the hot summer heat. Our pool had weakened our containment for us while it was listening to music, themed gatherings like 70s dance party, DJ dancing, a broader community together. Our pool club had a kitty pool for for the little ones, a special place for the little ones to host their birthday parties and invite all their friends. Today my pool club is closed thanks to GSM. He made sure that five huge apartment complexes he built had a pool for the rentals. Meanwhile, he closed our pools, the property owners. For what I understand, he wants to turn our beautiful pool and T-key bar into a parking lot for his rentals to park on. Yes, he has a for sale sign up for lease, for sale or lease, but his lack of maintaining and upkeep on our pool has really deteriorated and the mechanics of both our pools declined and are not working. The way Geosam works is they do the lease maintaining and can get away with it and everything is cracked, chipped and broken and he gets to a state of deterioration. Our common grounds are all weeds and grass. It takes GOSAM a very long time to fix problem areas as well. Since GOSAM came into Venetian Bay, my once elegant first class community has declined. How do I know this? Because I have seen what he has done to my community. The town center, the town center, and all other parts of Venetian Bay that GEO SAMS involved with, is truly very sad for us homeowners. He brought into Venetian Bay's dream and he truly has destroyed it. Our beautiful pool is closed. Our community has been suffering because of GOSM. I ask you all, please help us to get our pool back and bring back our community and our once beloved Venetian Bay. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your comments. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. I want to thank the mayor and the city commissioners for being here. My name is Sean Salvey, to all the way at Magnolia Street. I've lived here for over seven years now. Up here to ask you to implement an ordinance related to requirements for class two and class three e-bikes that exceed 720 watts or more. I'm writing this letter in regards to use and misuse of e-bikes. Total respect to everyone that does obey the laws in New Sumerna. Valuesha County and throughout Florida. The class two and class three e-bikes and the abuse of public streets, redways and sideways and bike paths. I have witnessed them traveling down State Road 74 Canal Street, Flagler Avenue and US one in the wrong lane, going in the wrong direction, a high rate to speed and weaving in and out of traffic with no regard to vehicular motor vehicles, pedestrians or motorcycles. Sensing inception of e-bikes for the use of commuting somewhere around 2019, there's been over 500% increase in injuries nationwide. And news somewhere in a beach for my own experience. Homeless people from firsthand knowledge of gaining information from area businesses that are writing e-bikes intentionally trying to, these are homeless people, trying to get hit on our city streets and shopping centers. In some cases, I've had vehicle owners purchase them either new bikes or fix the bikes that most recent, that's from the most recent information as of this morning. One person telling me that the individual driver that he took him to the bank and paid him $1,000 so he wouldn't call the police, even though the e-bike hit him. I'm asking the city of New Samurna beach to discuss this matter and to look at the data and implement a city ordinance to require a Florida driver's license and require appropriate insurance on any e-bike that has 500 watts which can travel up to 25 miles an hour and a class 3 e-bike which can go between 720 to 750 watts that can travel up to and over 28 miles an hour. I'm requesting this because my golf cart only goes 17 miles an hour but I'm required to have a driver's license and proof of insurance and registration. So I'm asking you to look at the data. Someone took my paperwork. I would have had it for you. I will get it to you, but I'm asking for the City Commission to address this issue because it happens to everyone if no matter if they hit you. I've already contacted State Farm. They will pay the bike. They assume the vehicle is bigger. They will always pay the person on the bike. And I think that is totally wrong. Everyone I've talked to believes that is wrong. And I think that we need to implement some ordinance to make people accountable for Radney's bikes against traffic and the wrong lane going in a wrong direction with no safety equipment, no nothing. So I thank you for listening to me. I wish I had my papers, but again, I thank you very much for this. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your comments. Mr. North. Welcome. Mr. Mayor, how are you, sir? I am Russ North. I'm here on behalf of the Lennox Center for the Arts. My allow to hand out paperwork to you all. Just to the, uh, okay. Oh, okay. The clerk will get him Russ. Accolades, thank you all for supporting Lennox Center for the Arts. Images this year was the most successful. Images we've had, we had the largest audience, the largest number of sales. It was very dynamic and thank you all for that support. I really do appreciate it. We are at Lennox Center for Arts moving into what we call ACA Live. An ACA Live, we're testing it right now, is going to be a performance series, very high level artist coming into the community to perform. This year, we're doing three performances on our campus. The three performances, as you can see there, are Nester Torres, who is a Grammy winning artist. He's coming in this weekend, and that's why I'm here. There's a permit coming in front of you for approval this evening. For that concert, the concert's going to start at 5.30 when people get there. We'll be shut down by 9 o'clock. But better than that, Esther has agreed to go to the high school in town on Friday. It's going to meet with the band. I don't know if you know this artist. He plays in a big band, Latin band. He's got two Grammys amazing guy and he loves kids and then we're inviting the grammar school on to our campus that evening to meet him, anybody who plays an instrument to come listen to him play, talk about the instrument. And then that evening we have the concert where I think we have about 140 seats sold something in that nature. There's going to be three concerts this year. The next one's the opera company. Grammy winning artist again coming in. It's gonna be evening of Romantic music with dinner and great wine. And the last one is Ron, who is touring with Linda Ronstep right this second. And he is up for a Grammy. He's guitar playing is at the level of Eric Clapton, he is amazing. So those are the three we're starting with if it works we're going to expand, it won't be just on our campus, we want to come into the city, we might even look at images as a music festival also bringing Grammy-Lib Artisan but my main purpose was to let you know what we're doing and ask you to approve our permits so that we can have this concert this weekend. So thank you for your time. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your comments. Good luck, Rose. Mr. Lease. Yes. Good evening. My name is Robert Lease. Bow Lease is my nickname. And I live on Riverside Drive, 1320 South Riverside Drive. I just wanted to put a plug in for SharkBite. I didn't find it inconvenient at all. I love looking out there, seeing the runners, seeing the smiling faces, seeing the energy, and so I'm a big proponent of it. And as a resident of Riverside Drive, I wanted to make that point known to all of you and I encourage you to vote in favor of keeping sharp light. The other is I'm on the Board of Trustees at the Atlantic Center for the Arts and ACA Live. This is just the beginning. We are really looking to bring some great shows in and I would also encourage you to yes vote on the permit for this coming weekend. Thank you all very much. I'm great evening. Thank you sir. Appreciate your comments. Edie Maim. Good evening. My name is Gil Roberts. I live at 802 East 8th Avenue. What do these new smart and beach events have in common? Shark bite race, bike week, October fest, images, wine walk, siphon stroll, child orambalaya, taco, mac and cheese challenges. Chili cook-off, Easter services, Christmas parade, Marty Grasparade, boat parade, St. Patrick's Day, dog fest, almost done. Art and adhesion stroll, classic cars on Canal, Canal Street nights, flamingo folly, seaside fiesta, jazz festival, shrimp and seafood, the farmer's market, and on and on and on. What do they have in common? Apparently any of these signature events could be canceled. We live in a vibrant active city, voted one of the best 50 best beach towns in the South this year. The Shark Bite race is one of the countless events it makes New Sumeran Beach a great place to live and visit. It involves many residents and participants from across the United States in a broad. Our hotels, restaurants, bars and merchant profits from this production. Not only do we have hometown participants, but the streets are lined with spectators, many of them children. This race is about to be taken away from us because of the temporary inconvenience of some. Exactly how many residents have complained? Do they have a petition with numerous signatures on it? From what I have heard, most Riverside residents are in favor of the race passing by on their street. Don't we all have to be flexible at some point to allow special events to occur? The Shark Bite is not a surprise the dates were put out in advance and there's plenty of time to make arrangements. Reportedly other routes are being investigated. However, I feel that the safety of Newsomorne Beach residents and visitors is more and more than a few disgruntled homeowners. If the chief of police has determined the current routes are the safest, I trust his judgment and you should too. Obviously, if the Shark Fight race is canceled, it could pave the way for more cancellations of any of the all previous mention events. With any large-scale production, there could be issues, but no bad press and serious incidents were recorded after the last race and countless runners are already looking forward to next race. Please reconsider not changing the route and allow the red point shark bite new Samaritan beach classic to occur. Thank you. Thank you ma'am. Appreciate that. Appreciate your remarks. Before Mr. Taylor speaks, if you're here for shark bite, would you please stand in the room? Okay. We get the idea. Thank you, please, we see it. We've got the idea, we've got the message. And so if you have something that hasn't been brought up about SharkBite, we'd love to hear from you. Otherwise, we're getting the message. Mr. Taylor, go ahead. Yes, sir, thank you. We want no shark bites, no more shark bites. Mr. Taylor, right up here you're talking to us. Yes, sir. Mr. Cleveland, sorry. I'm here first on behalf of homelessness. The homeless situation, I was homeless myself. Let's put that out there front and force. I I did it out of the standard of the overall goodness of the country for the lack of the last administration, the Biden administration. Where we didn't want, you know, these immigrants piling in in our community or in New Smirno Beach. So, I was one of the guys that lived in a tent on the river over there. But I did that for the overall well-being of the country and the city of New Smirno Beach. And the reason I'm here today, you know, although I'm running for mayor, I'm not announcing anything, but I'm just saying. Homeless people are humans too, and I like to help find a better pathway back for the homeless folks that are not on drugs. They're not doing bad things. They're not doing bad things. They're not doing things that are disruptive. It deserves to exist, you know, besides a tent that's not allowed. But that's that. And then if you want to talk about flooding and this and that, and you want to talk about solutions, I'll tell you the solution to the flooding. The solution is, it's the rivers. You know, we got an inlet and an outlet. When the tide comes up, the sand comes up. Over the years, it pounds and we run out of limitations of sand. So what we need is to distribute that sand back onto the beaches. Instead of it flooding our residents, you can go to James Taylor real estate.com and I'll sell you a still house if you need one. If you want to know what the net result of the solution is, it's like a toilet. You got to have a flushing of the canals and if you want to look into finding solutions come talk to me. Other than that that's that's all I have to say. Thank you sir appreciate your comments thank you. Hello Dave. How are you doing Fred Cleveland? I'm doing good Dave. Hi, my name is Lorina Norvel and I live at 700 South Riverside and I think just about everybody knows my son, David. He lives with me too. Mostly everybody has talked about Shark by as being part of this community, being I'm coming at it from a different direction. My son has been in a car accident. He has about one-tenth of his brain. They said he would never walk or talk or eat. We have struggled for a very long time, getting him back to where he is now. He is a responsible young man, he works. He is, he exercises all the way out on 44. He rides his bike everywhere. But he will always be a brain entry. And making friends is very difficult for special needs kids. I'm just telling you as mom. He has a wonderful group. Shark bite. Everybody take a look. I have a mother first. I am fighting for my son's identity. This is part of who he is. You take this away, you take away something that he has a dream. He always completes it. He always feels like he has earned something. You will defeat him by taking this away. And I do not want him to ever think that he cannot overcome anything. So please, from a mother's heart that has struggled for 33 years, don't take this away from him. Please, thank you Hebert and I reside at 636 North Riverside Drive. And I have this amazing speech that I will spare you from because a lot of it has already been covered. The only thing that I wanted to add in relation to the shark by activities is that the shark is a shark. I'm sorry, I'm very sure. My name is Kelly Hebert and I reside at 636 North Riverside Drive. amazing speech that I will spare you from because a lot of it has already been covered. The only thing that I wanted to add in relation to the Shark-By activities is that these activities give the Newsomernaby, high school, barracuda, XC, and track team an opportunity to make money. And for any of you that are parents that have children in support, you know how absolutely expensive it is. And so some of this money offsets the expenses that parents have to take, parents have to deal with. I think it's important to note that some of these kids would not run. If we didn't have these types of fundraisers, they could help them raise money for their kids to participate in these sports. So I just thought that it was important to bring that up. The coach was going to be here to talk about that, but he asked me as a board member to attend, so thank you so much. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your remarks. Nice to meet you. Hi, I'm Bonnie Davenport, 117 Framderive in New Samirna. Hurricane season will be here before we know it. I live in Ellis Nakers. My family has lived here since 1966, So we have seen many changes west of town and been through many hurricanes. I have attended both City and County Council meetings since my home flooded from Hurricane Ian's major flooding of my whole neighborhood. If I have learned anything from attending all of these meetings, it is this. The development and expansion that began several years ago along the highway 44 corridor has impacted the older communities drainage capabilities beyond acceptability. No thought was given of what the impact would be on the enclave neighborhoods when trees are cut down and wetlands are filled and paved over. Infrastructure may have been designed for the newly developed housing developments and businesses and adequate for normal rainwater drainage but when seasonal heavy rains and hurricanes occur the stormwater is still seeking our lower communities and flooding our yards, our homes and our roads. That became tragically obvious with Hurricane Ian. My home had 30 inches of water inside, and the roads were impassable. Rescue crews were not able to reach our neighborhood in a timely way to rescue some of my neighbors until 10 p.m. tragically one of my neighbors had fallen and drowned inside his home. I escaped my flooded home with my 90-year-old mother, only because my brother fought his way through the storm and was able to reach my house. He could not carry my mother through the deep flood water so he put her on a surfboard and floated her to safety. It took eight months and some very costly repairs before I was able to return home. Hurricane Milton also caused flooding in my neighborhood. And I imagine this will happen every time we get heavy rain because who will take accountability for our flooding? The city says that it's not their problem because we're unincorporated. The county so far has done nothing in our area to help our drainage system. Respectfully, I appreciate the suggestion that we apply to transform 386 or the Elevate Florida Program for assistance. But personally, I have already accepted FEMA funds and taken an SBA loan to repair my home in addition to using my own personal savings. I cannot afford to go into debt any further. I'm retired and I live on a fixed income as most of my neighbors do. What I need and what my community needs is the same consideration for the future of our properties that are surrounding newer developments are getting. I realize that I am in an unincorporated area, but there needs to be accountability for the drainage problems and the flooding in Ellison acres. I propose a challenge. Extend your hands across the boundaries between the city and the county and show the people of our communities that you care about its residents. No matter whose boundaries we live in, we are all in this together. Thank you Bonnie. I appreciate your remarks. Thank you, ma'. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate that. Mr. Hodges welcome. Carl Curtis Hodges 620 Riverside Drive and the owner of the new venue in New Summurna Beach. Now it is the was the women's club. Now it's called the Magnolia. And I just want to give you guys a little update and thank you for the opportunity to to improve this building and I am proud of it. If I had a wallet on me right now, I'd like to pull out photos and show them like you guys show up your kids and I am having a great time and I've really found out one thing special about the building. Everyone that works on the building feels like they have the same pride that I have and you you see it in their face, you see it in their work. They sand the woods down so perfect. And people come in and talk to them about it. And they're just beaming. You would not know that I own the building. You would think they are. It's happy and they talk to people and tell everybody, so I want to thank you all again. And I would love for you guys if you'd like old ladies, if you'd like to stop by and see the building sometime, I'd love to show you what's coming along. And I plan on making the city proud. Thank you. Thank you for your work, Curtis. We're proud of you. Mr. Wilson, good evening. Palmer Wilson, 101, Donald and Dryyer. I'm a retired detective lieutenant from the large metropolitan police force as well as a retired US Army lieutenant colonel with over 29 years of active and reserve military law enforcement service. I followed that with 25 years of professional law enforcement management consulting at all government levels throughout the United States and yeah, I'm an old guy. I serve on both the City Police Pension Board and the Charter Review Committee my way to give back to the city. I have been a president of Donald and I for over 20 years and I'm one of the people who complained about how the 2025 race was handled by the promoter in the city police. While I'm not opposed to the race, the incident this year that involved me is a very serious issue. the 25 race was handled by the promoter in the city police. While I'm not opposed to the race, the incident this year that involved me and which was inaccurately described by the promoter in his Monday email to the commission was created by failures of the promoter's team as well as the police to some degree to honor what was understood to be the 2023 city commitment to assist homeowners in the four streets that did in East off with South Riverside Drive to gain access to their homes. I was merely following what I and I think that commission felt was the resolution of the problem and proper procedure. Further, the promoter's email does not correctly describe the response as volunteers or employees, including the flashing of an inappropriate finger gesture at me in the presence of my wife. Nord has made clear that the last reddance participant was walking several blocks north on Riverside approaching 6th Street when I arrived at the scene from 8th Street. There were no runners anywhere near Donland. By the time the police officer arrived there were no runners on the street period. The race was essentially over in front of Donland drive and neither his staff nor the police officers would move the cones so I could make a right turn on Donland to get to my house. I finally gave up waiting for them to clear the table and cones blocking access and made a right turn off a Riverside Drive, a well-south at a table area, and directly onto my own property. The point of this is apparently there was gaps in the planning and execution of the race. It's understandable that the promoter is upset and worried about losing this given the impact of financial benefit. I also note that my email and phone number emails for this city are always present but I've never heard from this promoter in any way to ask what my issue was. I decided to be constructive rather an emotional and do some research to see if I could work with city staff to find common ground to improve the response to sit resident needs. We must remember these problems are long standing and the result of my research. I found out they also impact beach side. We were successful in getting two changes that should reduce the amount of time Riverside Drive is closed off. I look forward to more adjustments as the city staff continues with their plans for 2026. but I caution that events such as this side require constant review with a focus balancing the needs of both residents and the runners and I have hope the commission and city staff agree. Thank you very much. Thank you Detective Wilson appreciate your comments. Evening Mr. Blueback how are you sir? I'm doing fine thank you. Good evening to all. I have four items to mention. One is we're certainly anxious to see what the result of the modeling of the study for the storm water activity that's going on at the center. I just wanted to know a couple of things with respect to that. that. One is that we decided to take a trek over to Sam Sula side of the Sam Sula Canal to look what they had. And we were, it was just incredible the amount of flooding that they had and we hope that it would be reflected in the modeling that's going on. The second item is we have scheduled. You have scheduled a workshop for Deering Park on the 17th of April. It's about time to have a town hall talking about Venetian Bay. We have the good and the bad to tell you. We have lessons learned to tell you. I put together probably about six pages of lessons learned of what we did and what we should have done. And to complement that with a visit to our facility, to our campus, to see what actually happened. You've heard a little bit about the pool in the town center. That's that's one of about a half a dozen issues that we have there. Parking is one. And while it's recognized to be a solution within the Benetian Bay community, in fact was brought about because of a decision that was made by this commission. And lastly, since the mayor presented accolades for the Florida Gators Men Basketball Program, I'd like to identify that the University of Connecticut Women's Program, the day before won their 12th National Championship unprecedented. Certainly validating that Stores Connecticut, a little low, Hicktown, is adequately recognized as being the foot of the basketball capital of the world. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Joe. Go, you, Con. Yes, ma'am. Hi. My name's Patricia Scott. I live at 112 Betty Road, New Summary and a Beach, Florida, unincorporated area, Ellison Acres. They're right across from that shelf on. You know, or Harley Davidson shop used to be an important thing. One of the things that I have to share with you. Living in an enclave area is a very frustrating thing. Elson Acres really needs to be looked at. And it's not just by the county. It's got to be by the city because you guys got to be held accountable for the water that is coming from the city that's ending up on honor property. Those businesses over there, I don't think the pipes have been ever checked or anything. And there are pipes inside that shell, pit, and they need to be cleaned out. Not only that, the county put in pipes over by us that go nowhere. soak in an area that floods, which doesn't make absolutely any sense whatsoever. That water needs to go somewhere else. Now I said across the street, I can look out my window and I can see every time we flood. The first time I've eaten Ian, it came across the street. Not at 10 o'clock and like everybody else did. Guess what? That pond was over on my side by four o'clock in the morning. By four o'clock in the morning, I had already called the flood my flood insurance. Now, everybody else seemed to flood between nine and ten. I have proof because I took pictures. At 755, I had a picture of the inside of my house. It already had this much water in it. During Milton, again, I cleaned my whole house up, fixed it up. I'm retired. I'm getting tired of it. You guys have got to start helping us on your side. You're doing it with Corbin Park. You're getting together to do stuff. You need to do all the enclave there. You need to all work together to fix what's happening around us. You can't. You're doing it with Corbin Park, you're getting together to do stuff. You need to go all the enclave there. As you need to all work together to fix what's happening around us. You can't just keep building without working together to fix everything. That's all I got to say. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your comments. Thank you so much. Hi there. My name is Jean. My address is oppressed. However, my I.M city resident. I do just I am also here for the shark bite in a positive light. It's been said enough. I don't need to reiterate that. I think they did a nice eloquent job saying it. And I also liked what the detective said as well. It just shows that maybe a little bit of work needs to be done. And if this chief is as good as you think he is. is now his chance to take care of that. I believe we stuck in traffic longer over that crash on the bridge than we ever have for the Shark Bite. So now's his chance to take care of that. The other question I had, and I don't know if I missed this because I haven't seen it, I tried to look. If it is not a code or to be enforced, addresses on the beach side facing the beach should be indicated on all buildings and condos. It is required by Volusia County. I know the beach is Volusia. Volusia County requires it from all of the residents, but our section does not have them. So whether you are requiring it, nobody's following up or it hasn't been required yet, I'm not sure. It's a huge safety thing. If somebody is, especially with all the people we get here from out of town, somebody's in the water and they don't know where they are, they need to call for help. They look around and they say, I'm in front of a condo. So if we can get anybody who is on that, especially South Atlantic anywhere down there, get the numbers of those buildings to be printed, just like the county is making everybody do. And if you're ever down beach side in the county, you can see they're playing this day, you know exactly where you are. If you look up in any kind of emergency, somebody drops, somebody's drowning, somebody's bid by a shark, you can say I'm in front of 872. Whatever that number is, we really need to make an effort to make that happen. Thank you, Mayor. Appreciate your comments. Dr. Herman, can you evening? Randy Herman, 108 Esther Street, Get Any Mayor, City Staff, and the Commission. I'm talking, I like to talk about two things tonight. The first is a hard one for me. I hate the saying don't cry after spilt milk because it's too late. But I, Friday when I drove by the Oakweiler devastation of the property behind publics, I really did. I cried. I have never seen such horrific devastation of a piece of property. I can't imagine what happened to the wildlife. Certainly we know what happens to the trees and all the floor and fauna. I've always believed if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. And I was part of a large number of citizens who met, if you remember, many, many times with the previous developer to come up with a plan that was a win-win that preserved a lot of the trees and produced a development of about 40 units. I don't know what happened, how it went to 80 units. I don't know how they were able to destroy all that in one fell swoop. Please please go by there. It is shocking to me that this kind of development can go on after what we know has been happening in other places. And I'll come back to that because I think there's a connection. But I have to say it was one of the saddest moments I've had in a long time. Secondly, I'd like to speak to the item 11A on first reading, which is the repeal in replacement section 604.04 and 604.051, tree preservation and land development regs. I want to applaud the city for doing this hard work. It is a very dense document, and parts of it are beyond me, I of even understanding. But it's well, well needed and it was well done. But there are a few things that I do worry about. One is when the second reading comes next next time, I hope the city will present in detail the essence of this, these changes and especially the exceptions. There are, there is authority given to certain people to make exceptions. That could render the majority of these well thought changes null and void. So please explain those exceptions and I really recommend that the monthly report be made to the city manager if exceptions are granted to those very good changes that have been presented in that change. And the last thing I was really pleased to see so many people tonight. I know Commissioner Perine commented at the city workshop that she gets a little tired of people like me coming on a regular basis. And tonight we had a great cross section of our community come in on a variety of issues. And thank you for hearing them. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your comments. Good afternoon, Marin Staff. My name's Stuart Hughes here. I'm a lifelong resident since 1959 and co-owner at 180 Cario de Corte in Venizan Bay, Mosa Homeowner at 3630 State Road, 44 and a co-owner of Pampus Nursery in Sam Sulla. I was also instrumental in helping start spark the spirit on Canal Street by recovering the old star that was the old water tower over there. And I put on top of that work for the Utilities Commission for keeping the lights on for 30 and a half years. And this year will mark the 70th anniversary of the star being lit on the tower. So I think y'all should take a little consideration to I could come up, I used to have a little suit, I'd put on some spirit starter and maybe saw me down there, I don't know. But since I've retired, but I would be willing to get up and say a few words about it at the event if you'd like. So you could get a hold of me if you want. My main concern is, number one, why was the Venetian Bay allowed to create all these overflow weirs and some of the retention ponds on the west side of the development and discharge the outfall basically into all the wooded area that leads to the Sam Sula Canal. This large drainage canal was started in 1917 by the Lake Aspie drainage district and the Volusia County Council in December 1st, 2010 was assumed control over that. The takeover was part of a broader effort by the county to streamline the drainage management and ensure effective water resource management. The sole purpose of the drainage district was established to manage water flow and prevent flooding in the area. Of course the upcoming Dering Park will put a burden on the Samsonal Canal as a can't handle the current volume of water during even just a big rain event, never mind a hurricane. Moving forward, our Westerly community would be grateful if this council would help work out something with the county by approaching Vanneesian Bay and G.O. Sam possibly by acquiring an easement or right away on the east side of the SAMHSAU Canal between Highway 44 and Pione air trail. That's where the canal was dug, and it was dug in 1917, so I was way before any of our time, but it needs to be maintained, and it hasn't been maintained. And I know that's the county's problem, but if you could give a little pressure there, because that's what everything from I-95 that way flows to the SAMHSA looking out. And also saw Senate Bill No. 810, which is about stormwater management systems. This bill would require cities to inspect their stormwater systems every year and sign a division of emergency management attesting to the state of those systems. I heard the bill would possibly been revised and would no longer require an annual inspection. I was wondering if you could follow up on that to inform the residents if that bill is in fact still going to be pushed through or if they're going to modify it or just throw the monkey on everybody else's back. Thank you. Appreciate your remarks, sir. Thank you. You need Ms. Harris. Thank you, time is Harris. We're waiting. No problem. Good evening, everyone. I would like to, my name is Patricia Blake Harris. I'm at 524 Mertle Avenue, and I'd just like to make an announcement about the flood assessment meeting on Wednesday night. Be there with your location that you've had the flooding so that we can map out those areas on the big map that they're going to have there. I've been trying to follow that with the transformation group and this is our own city government group. And so we need to be there to point out just like the ladies are saying how deep was your water and how we can improve our storm water drainage in our little tiny town of Nusomerna Beach. And I want to give a compliment to Mayor. He did come out to see us in our neighborhood. And he wore his boots and he wore his sun hat and so he was ready to walk the walk. So we pointed out those areas and guess what I saw today? A big old back-hole tractor at the drainage ditch. So I I don know what angel brought that mackle out, but I wanted to thank you for taking care of that if you were the angel. Thank you, Ms. Harris. I appreciate your remarks. Have a good evening. We'll give that to David Ray. There was your... Thank you, ma'am. I think she found your notes. Cindy Ciseck, 512, you pun. I was not able to attend the charter review committee meeting but I was able to watch a rerun of it and I'm glad that we filmed it. It was posted as an organizational meeting. And for the most part, that's how the first 50% of the meeting with, and it was good attendance. Only two members were absent. And on the next meeting, I guess, and other ones already knowing they're going to be absent. But the meeting went far beyond being an organizational meeting. And that's the only reason I'm speaking to you today. I thought the energy of the participants was great. The 11 people, well the nine that were there, but I know some of the others too. The 11 people that were selected I think will do a fair and reasonable job. There's just some things I'd like to bring to your attention. And so here's it by the numbers. Seven. Seven is the number of times the facilitator referenced a list that represented the needs of items that needed to be looked at. A list she said she was given by the city attorney. Seven. That was seven. Eight. I'm getting confused. Oh, so that's seven. 11. 11 was the number of minutes. Believe it or not. Once they got past organizational items, that the group spent discussing the preamble, notably whether a word should be inserted or not. Kind of weird, you know, something as a professional facilitator, I wouldn't have expected had gone on that way, but, you know, we air items. And seven minutes is the amount of time the body spent considering the first item on the attorney's list, and making a motion and voting that they would like to see a change on that item. Now mind you, this was posted as an organizational meeting. Eight is the number of minutes that the committee blessed their heart spent rethinking the vote they had taken and walking it back because they probably figured out or they did realize they weren't comfortable making decisions in the absence of all the information and going beyond the bounds of an organizational meeting. So I expect a facilitator to facilitate and that includes providing a guideline and process for decision making, airing options and gaining consensus and consensus is is in 100% agreement, but it means no disagreement. I also know that everyone has a role to play in the charter committee group, so I would ask you this, and I'm going to run out of time. I would ask you to review the role expectations of the facilitators, as she is doing what we're paying before, affirm the city attorney's ability to stay in her lane and not try to direct the meeting and consider a rollback of the votes that were taken inappropriately at that meeting. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your comments. Anyone else for public participation? Seeing none, public participation is now closed. Thank you very much for your participation tonight. We're going to move on to the consent agenda now. Item 7, there are 19 items on the consent agenda. Do any of my colleagues wish to comment on any of those items? Yes, ma'am. Well, we know 7E and the shark bite for comment. For comment only okay. All right, very good. So let me take a let me take a whack at this. Anybody want to pull any items on there? Pull seven are seven Romeo. All right. All right. And Lucy, you want to talk on E echo? Is that right? Let me do a double check on that. That's the sidewalk. Yeah, the sidewalk. All right. Anybody else for pulling or coming? Okay. So let's have the comment on item 70 for those of you watching listening is a sidewalk cafe agreement for Beach and Burritos restaurants located it for 3-1 canal. Just want to say I'm exceptionally fond of sidewalk cafes. However many of our sidewalk agreements find it difficult to consistently comply with the five foot clear passage. Wheelchairs can't get through and people walk in the streets. So while I'm looking forward to beach and burritos, I do hope the city will monitor this and other cafes for the compliance to make sure that people can actually and wheelchairs can actually use the sidewalk. Really good, thank you, man. Okay. I like I like the pull item, seven golf, seven G. And so we got two to pull. And let's see. Now I would then entertain a motion to approve item, alpha-braw-bacharly delta, echo, foxtrot, hotel, India, Juliet, Kilo, Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, Abba, Quebec, Sierra. So move. Emotion, second. Second. Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Vice Mayor Martin. Yes. Commissioner Perine. Yes. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Ashley. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Okay, very good. So let's take up, we'll start with G, item 7G. I've been in touch with the SYC. The question is about the efficacy of their engineering solution. And they have requested that we defer. So Madam City Attorney, make sure I get the word right here. I'd like to continue to date certain, which is the month from, so the first meeting in May. So a month, what date is that? May 13th. Okay, so I'd like to continue to date certain and I think that requires a vote. Yes. Okay, so I'll move that. Is there a second? Second. Thank you. Any discussion? Any further discussion? It will reveal itself when they find and the yacht club come back and see us again, but they're not they're not ready. The leadership has asked a wheat deferred. Madam City clerk, please call the roll commissioner. Pering. Yes, Commissioner McGurk. Yes, Commissioner Ashley. Yes, Vice Mayor Martin. Yes, Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Thank you so much. Okay, on to the item seven Romeo. It's considered the approval of the Shark-Bite Expo, feeding friends with 5K, half marathon on Saturday, seven... item seven Romeo it's considered the approval of the shark bite expo feeding friends of 5k half marathon on Saturday 17th of January 26 and Sunday the 18th Commissioner Perrine looks like Rob said here to talk first I defer to you and you can take the lead sure then I'm gonna take away your thunder so a lot of Thank you. Okay. You can take the lead. Sure. Didn't want to take away your thunder. So a lot of this, a lot of the emails we received were about the renters being concerned. We were going to cancel this race. But if they've been following us since 2023, we've had issues with certain communications between this promoter staff and our police force. As you heard, the one gentleman say, there was an incident this year and safety is our most important issues with this. I really don't understand the map very well because sometimes we allow streets to be closed one lane and sometimes we don't. So I think the map would be helpful to both of us if we could understand that better. And then the other thing in advance if we have the promoter contact individual us up here versus reaching out to the runners saying we're going to cancel the race would be really beneficial in pulling public records because we know our zones and we know the issues and some of these issues have been going on for a while now. So I'm disappointed that we had so many people say we're going to cancel this race when that wasn't the issue at all. The issue you heard from the one gentleman is there was a communication failure and we don't want our city to have issues and runners ran over. We don't want our residents not to be able to get to their own homes. And yes, they're inconvenience and yes, they know this in advance, but all of this is important. They're taxpayers. And then the other thing is we need to be mindful of all of this. This is all important and two weeks ago for them to say that, you know, to get over it now. I'm going to put this back on the promoter and say, we want communication to be better. We want the race, but not how it's been handled. Because there's a lot of promoters out there. So we don't get these issues resolved and we'll look somewhere else. Thank you. Any other of my colleagues have comments? Yes, Commissioner Martin, go ahead. OK. I'd just like to say that I understand that whatever errors took place in the past last year, they seem to have been taken care of. So hopefully we won't have many of the same problems that we did last year. And my understanding is that we have now agreed that there will be notifications to preferably, no less than two, preferably three days ahead of these races so that the residents can prepare for the races. And I think it's going to be electric signs along our major thoroughfares. But that way citizens will know what's coming and can prepare accordingly. Is that accurate? I will give the update I have. And then I'll add Chief Kirk and Joe, the organizer speak to their updates as well. Well, that's on. Okay. All right, so... Anybody else? I know you're dying to get started. No, you're going to be fine. Anybody else? All right. And just so everybody knows, we have received a barrage of email. 99% of it don't take our 5K away. And so I don't know that that was ever contemplated, but it was interesting that that was the propaganda that was started. And so as Commissioner Perrine has said, that's a lot of energy. A lot of people worried about stuff. We have, our attention is on this, and we want to make sure it is the best outcome for all the residents. That's why Director Salazar is in charge of it, and that's why we're gonna resolve it so that it is the best solution for everyone. With that, Rob, go ahead. Thank you, sir. So over the last two weeks since the March 25th meeting, I have been working with the organizer and PD to facilitate a win-win solution to address a lot of the issues raised. We have gone back and forth with the organizer and we have agreed to move the start time up from the 9 a.m. Which was initially proposed to 8 a.m. The police department has also met with the organizer and we've come up with a plan to deploy water barricades at the intersections of the impacted route with a police vehicle trailing the last runner to act as a vehicle barricade. The roads that are closed will be open strategically as the last runner passes. Let's see. Following the last race participant, moving north on to Riverside Drive, the Water Barricades, which have closed fifth through eighth will be drained and moved, making the streets accessible to the residents. The course closure will be moved up to fifth at that point. Chief Kirk and Sergeant Helms have reviewed the proposed alternate route. This was mentioned earlier during public participation and have landed on the original proposed route being the most appropriate for this type of event. So they're in favor of keeping it at that route. I would defer public safety questions to Chief Kirk, but that's kind of where we've landed. Our city manager has helped with some of these issues as well, so this has been a collaborative effort from staff trying to work and administer the different moving parts that have been raised raise concerns for this. So with that, I can take field any questions or if we have questions for chief or the organizer, we can address those as well. I just wondering, you know, you said that the police car follows the last runner. Who is responsible for removing the barricades to open up the road after that last runner? Chief Kirkert, would you? Good evening. Just some points of clarification for Rob. So what we've discussed is in an effort to try to get the road open as quickly as possible, but also keep runners and vehicles separate. The intention as you guys have seen as we approve all of these events we're now going into a much more significant hardening of these areas to try to present greater barriers to any kind of tragedies that could occur. So at the end of Riverside there, at eighth, the intention is to fill a water barricade as the race gets kicked off, and that'll be drained by the police officer that's stationed there as soon as the last runner has turned. So obviously that takes a couple minutes for that to drain, and then as that last runner moves up beyond fifth, the officer will drag that out, move it up. And then they have volunteers that'll unblock all of the side streets that are put on along the way there. So the officer gets out of his car and goes and drains the barricade. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for the chief or for the? I had a couple of questions by residents of why some of the streets were decided to be closed. I think Saxon is closed till 1030 and other and also some of the streets had one lane closures like North Causeway but some did not. How do you determine the safety? It depends on the street itself, the width of the street and whether there's an available sidewalk or anything like that. So, Saxon in the entirety is not closed. There is a portion of Saxon closed that is from third to the end of the CVS there. And that's because when you round the corner there, there's no sidewalk. So they've stopped vehicles and runners from intermingling there. But then as soon as you get beyond the CVS there, it jogs back to a sidewalk again. So that's open and all of the avenues down section are open. I would have a question about that because there are, there are mostly sidewalks to 8th Avenue, Avenue but not consistently we know that there's nothing between CVS and the first Walters or the first house built on Jackson that has no sidewalk you have to cross Jackson to get to a sidewalk and then you go down Jackson for a while and hopefully by then Oquiler will not impede that. But then you have to cross back over to the west side for the sidewalk, which is I guess about eighth street. So if you're depending on sidewalks, at best it's going to be a jog, jog, jog, jog. And so. Yeah. And that's why after we close the area that doesn't have the option, those open backups so they can parallel that. And then like you asked on North Causeway, I think a portion of South Atlantic, it's bike lanes or emergency lane kind of areas that are blocked so that runners have a de facto sidewalk area that they can run it That's very helpful. I appreciate all the help and let's hope this year is better than last year I don't want to my phone was blowing up the entire weekend from that race and Saturday all day long and I wish somebody would have picked up the phone and called me But thank you guys for all the work you've done on it. Yes, Ben. Thanks guys. Appreciate any other questions? No. Okay. Thank you so much. I would then entertain a motion to approve item 7 Romeo, the special event that we've been discussing for both Saturday, the 17th and Sunday, the 18th of January, 2026. Is there a motion? So moved. I have a motion. Second. And a second. Any other discussion? Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Ashley. Yes. Vice Mayor Martin. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. Commissioner Perine. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Thank you. Motion passes. Okay. That's on to section 9. We've done, we've finished up the consent agenda. There are no administrative or new business items, but we do have quasi-digital hearings hearings and so a quasi-dedicial hearing will be conducted to improve a special exception to allow a boat slash RV storage facility operate in the B3 zoning district located at 666 Dora Street. The quasi-dedicial hearing is now open. We're going to first hear from our senior planner, Mr. Baker. Yes, we have a special exception to allow a boat and RV storage facility in the B3 Zoning District at 666 Doris Street. We have applicant Jennifer Cornelius, three of seven Columbus Avenue and Ms. Merton Beach, representing property owner, NSB boat and RV storage LLC, same address, same person,ests special exception approval to lie boat, Narvi storage facility to operate the B-3. Properties located on the west side of Bedora between Dora and Peacan with a little bit south of Wayne. So here we go, here is the location more or less. As you see, it's three lots south of Wayne. The railroad tracks to the west and the US-Hide of Peacown there and then the US-Hide of the US-1 right there. This is from the street. You can see that there is a house to the south and then to the north. There's also a house on the other side of this as well. Now outdoor storage of vehicles and the B3 is allowed, the special exception which is why we're here. There is a specific criterion in the B3 that states this. Outdoor display, storage, or sale of vehicles, or other equipment or material provided that in the interest of safety to children and adjacent property, outdoor storage areas will be encompassed by a fencer wall. At least six feet high, the bottom of four feet being solid and the top two feet being open. So as you can see there this is kind of a chain link and a split rail fence. So it doesn't meet that requirement right now. This was put in, as you noticed, there was a house that used to to be here before the house was taken down. They applied for a fence permit. And the fence permit for a general house in this neighborhood or even a business is a different requirement than what you go for this boat in RV storage. Because you have a buffer and you're also required to have this fence requirement. So they put a fence in, basically, that doesn't meet our special exception regulations. Again, this is the survey we had. You see it's 100 foot wide. The is where the houses that were structures that were on here before. As I noted, there is a front buffer landscape along Doran Pekon of five feet. Now the fence is set off, five feet off, both those of them in the property line, so they can put the vegetated buffer along there. And unfortunately the fence is directly on the property line. So there's no real ability now to put the landscape buffer on the outside of the fence, because it's on the property line. So we're kind of you're viewing not just the use in this case, but you're also trying to determine how to go forward with the situation that we already are facing here right now. There are also three specific criteria that all special exceptions must meet. Number one, requested use is listed among special exceptions in a district. Yes, it is. Be, the requested use will not impair the character of the surrounding or adjoining districts, nor be detrimental to the public health morals or welfare. This one in particular, right now as it stands, basically there are no trees on the lot yet. That's a requirement which you know they've agreed to meet. The storm water system right now they put shell down but and we have a rudimentary plan that actually our own engineering department kind of drew for them but isn't finalized yet so that still needs to get worked on. And then as I've mentioned right now you know the buffering between the homes and the boats and trailers and everything else right now, it's a fence. So what they have is drawn up, is this, is kind of like their original CODSU plan, which shows, you know, bringing in landscaping would be along the inside line of the fence. And you know, your entrance, an egress, egress, egress is off Picon, and then cars won't be in trailers won't be going off Dora. And then this situation, you know, I have a little concern about the landscaping being maintained on the inside, and it's kind of like, it doesn't, it's to meet the intent of it, to put up a barrier instead of this solid wall. And then this is kind of the rudimentary little design that Jesse and the engineering department drew up for them to kind of show how this storm water system is going to have to operate. Now their initial plan is two different options here. As I mentioned they had the landscape buffer. They had talked about planning closure which I took this picture off the internet here, but that's basically when it's full grown, this would be kind of how it would look. So if that is one option for you to consider on this, to meet it, the intent of it, it has to be four foot tall when it goes in. The other option that they've also put out there is the idea of basically attaching the screen, which is our lower picture, which would kind of Instead of being a solid body fence, it would be screened so you're You have a four foot solid fence, but again, you wouldn't have the landscape buffer on the outside And I noticed you're required to have one tree for every 25 hour and square feet So they have to put seven trees on there, which their planet planted. They showed has them in the Doris street and Peacons street frontages. We did receive two calls on this. One was from a neighbor kind of across the street. And I think down a little bit, they were concerned about noise and boats and RVs potentially pulling out of the lot. And the other one was kind of concerned about fire flow on the street in case anything would happen with any of these boats and fire. I know from we had a pre-app kind of after the fence was in the fire marshal had noted there's only a two inch line down the street right there which if there was a building put in, it would, that state would be inadequate to actually meet the flow and it had to be upgrades to the system for that. But I don't think that applies necessarily to an open. So I can you said that to himself. He said it doesn't apply to open, but if there was a structure built there, it would be inadequate for that. They have said they're only bringing in trailers and small boats, there's no attention for RVs. So I'm kind of, as I said, this isn't just the use here. You guys got to consider kind of almost like a site plan. It's kind of like a variance case as well a little bit for you guys there. So again, the required three foot wide landscape buffer, supposed to be on the outside of the fence. Thus the fence would have to be at least three feet into the side property lines to accommodate that. It is, you know, it's along the side property line, and it, you know, does meet the front, at that front being Dora and Peacock. And noted, the fence is required to be encompassed by a fence or a wall at least six feet high. It doesn't meet this right now. So again, it's kind of up to you guys, more or less to the side. If you want to go to the Solid Body Fence, if you want to do this Clujia Buffer, if you want to make them move the whole fence over and put the buffer on the outside, it's, you've got some decisions to make there. And then you want to go to the Clujia, as I mentioned, or again, you could do the attaching of the installing of the screen. The planning and zoning board reviewed this, they voted for one, but they were kind of like, well, it's make sure that the site planning goes. This still has to go through a site plan process. The planning and zoning board reviewed this, they voted for one, but they were kind of like, well, it's make sure that the site planning goes. This still has to go through a site plan process afterward, and they have to meet the storm water and make sure that the landscaping meets the code and everything else. So they voted for one, but kind of stressed that the site plan would have to be followed. And these were the conditions that they had looked at. a landscape plan that includes a vegetative buffer, at least four feet in height, when planted or at a four foot tall fence. That's... the conditions that they had looked at. A developer landscape plan that includes a vegetative buffer, at least four feet in height, one planted or at a four-foot tall fence. Outside the Visibly Trangle, Longdora and Peacons Street, add the trees to meet the minimum requirements and meet the engineering departments requirements for stormwater system on the parcel. I know it's kind of an unusual situation, so if you have any questions for me, I'm here. I know the applicant is here as well. Thank you, Mr. Baker. Appreciate this word, Jake. Any of my colleagues with questions? Mr. McGeart? Thank you, Mayor. A couple of things. You know, we've had a few of these. The code, I think, I find your states you mean that the first four foot you can't see through.. And then the, and then from five to four to six foot, is you can see through it. Ope, or trellis, you know, some kind of crass, or something along those lines. What they have now would mean. So it's never made sense to me. I think when we're talking about something like this, or the roofing company, or something we've done this with, I think a six foot high fence that you cannot see through would be a good standard to start at. So I would do a six foot fence that you can't see through period, not split it up. I don't see the value in that. The other thing is, yeah, I think I'd like to see the landscaping on the outside of the fence. I also question, what do you call this plant that was called Clujia? Clujia. I think I know it as the autograph plant, which is a little less. Now I will tell you this, When I did my own project, I became very familiar with landscaping much more than I ever thought I would in my life. I love that plant. It's a beautiful plant. It fills in really well, but it does very poorly up here. For some reason, landscapers, it's not in the soil. And a lot of people are planning things that are gonna die as soon as we have a hard freeze. And we're gonna have it again very soon. Landscapers are gonna make a lot of money one day when we have a freeze because for some time now, people have been planning tropical foliage and landscaping that is not zoned for this area. I would recommend Potacarpus, which is historically been used and you can keep it short, you can grow it 15 feet high, you can shape that to be as tight of a hedge as you can imagine. So when I look at this, I can support it, but I want to see a six foot high fence, you cannot see through with the landscaping being put a carpet on the outside. And is it going to need to be irrigated? It would have to be irrigated. Okay, good. Because then he landscaping that has any intention on actually staying around needs to be, have irrigation. Now of their initial application is they wanted to go from I understand from them they wanted to go solid but of course you have homes on either side of this and it was kind of they had to be able to see bagging out of their driveway so we couldn't have this solid body fence going all the popular and so they had to have the end of it kind of required to be open just so you can see getting out of the driveway. So there's there's no right of way in front? There's the very small right of way maybe like seven feet or something. But it's not on a corner isn't? No. Okay. So okay so I understand there's only seven feet of right of way. Well grass put it that way before you get to the improved street. Put it that way. Yeah, yeah, okay, so there's seven feet of right away from the, their property line to the street. Yes. Okay, it's not on a corner a lot. So, I mean, I would let you make the expert call on that, but in a general sense, I would say a six-foot high fence You can't see through with something like put a car piece on the outside of it Now that's gonna require them to move the fence in three feet on both sides And just so you know, it's all clear. Yeah, yeah, no, I understand. Okay. Thank you Commissioner Martin I too would like the landscape you gone the outside of the fence I don't have Commissioner McGurk's knowledge of what landscaping plants work, but that's defying a little bit too much of our regulations for my comfort zone. And so I'm hoping it wouldn't be a big deal to move that fence in a couple of feet, or I guess five feet on each side, to accommodate that buffer, I think it's fair to the neighborhood. Yeah, it would be, it'd have to be in three. So to accommodate the buffer. Commissioner Ashley. Would they object to, thank you, Mayor? Would they, the developer object to that space being lost? They're here. I have, from conversation, they didn't seem terribly thrilled with that idea, I'd say. Why? You know? Well, I think they came in with the understanding that they applied for a permit and basically I came down to, they thought, or they had any impression, I don't want to put words in them out there, they could explain themselves. But they felt that because the building department issued them the permit, it was okay to stay there. And when they applied for the permit, it was for a fence around what it was at the time, a house or a business. And not saying anything about the permit text, but they're looking at offense, getting it proved as close to you want as quickly as possible. They're not looking into what they might put a vote in our research, which has a different set of regulations. So I don't think that they're terribly fond of the idea of moving it, but they're here and they're looking for approval. And next comment is just agree with Jason at least that it landscape should be on the outside of the fence, not the inside. I wouldn't be confident that it would survive on the inside. You know, it's just that those things typically go is they get trampled or ignored and die. Can you help us with the process here, a little bit? Let's unpack the application process. There was a home and some other structures on the property when they got it. And those were destroyed and turned down all but one. And the application for the fence was that as a residence or was it, what was the understanding of the planning department when they came in and said, hey, we need to put a fence up. How does that work? You know, for my, I pulled the permit. And the permit was pulled by as a specialty contractor, Chad Howard. And then the actual permit itself, it says, please be aware that it will be at the homeowners expense if workers needed to be performed in the drainage and utility easements so I think that's kind of like a boilerplate thing they put in there but it references homeowner I can't say for sure whether the house was still standing there at that point in time but the fence permit references of watch out. So, and it was a house before. So let me follow up on that. The requirements for a fence for a home is what? Well, it could be up six foot tall, but you see, it's got a business zoning. So, it kind of what they were going to put in except for the area along the front where you had to have your visibility triangle so you could see out. It can be a six foot tall along the sides. And that's not the case for business fence by rules that are written today. It's the same basic general ruling because it's the B3 zoning district, which is kind of a commercial. Basically, like right now, if you had a home in this zoning district and you tore it down, you can't build it back. The houses are not conforming structures in this neighborhood. So they could not have reconstructed a home if they wanted to? No. The intent was to make always was to make it a business. Yeah, that's kind of all that whole B3 area between kind of really on the, would be the east side and west side of US one to the tracks that whole area is largely zone B3, which requires, yeah, when if a house goes, it can't be replaced. It's there as long as it stands, but if it comes down, that stays down. I got it. How about the setback? Did we say, do we inform them when they pull the permit, hey, if it's for business, you're going to have to put the landscape in front, you've got to set the fence back. Why did they put the fence on the property line? Trying to figure that out. I mean, I know I can ask them, but what was your understanding residential use the fence could be on the property line. When you have a business going in, again, you're trying to provide to slightly more of a- What was your understanding? As a residential use, the fence could be on the property line. When you have a business going in, again, you're trying to provide a slightly more attractive appearance for them. And that's why you have the landscape buffer along the sidelines. Really good. I'll ask them. Anybody else? Yes, sir? No, no. Are you good? OK. All right. Hey, Jake, don't go anywhere. We'll probably ask you to come back. Thank you so much. We'd love to hear from the applicant if he's present or he or she'd like to talk to us. Evening, that's it. Is that a corner? This is my husband, Cronelia. Speak right up into that microphone, my dear. And you can pull it down to you. Yeah, that'd be better things on Jen Cornelius And this is Clint Cornelius and we're the owners Hi, so I just have a little bit of history here on how things went down and we kind of wanted to explain to you We purchased this property in April 2024 because it's a 150 feet away from our other storage lot on 544 Doris street which we've owned for the last five years and is also zoned B3. The houses that were on the property we purchased at 666 were completely run down, not up to code and very unsafe. We had to remove them regardless. So we went to the city of NSB to apply for a permit to turn the houses down and they approved it. At that time there was no mention of the requirement to obtain a special exception from the city, which actually surprises me because I've now come to learn that in a B3 zone, once a house is torn down, another one cannot be put up in the properties automatically considered commercial. So this should have queued every other permit that was pulled after that point. This is the first one that was done, was until everything was completely cleared that we went down, back down the permitting office. In person, my husband and I, and explain what we were going to use the property for, a storage lot. Exactly the same one as our other 150 feet away. They told us the process for doing permitting. They didn't mention at that time anything either about a special exception. So we applied for the permit for the East and West sides, which are the street sides which are the exact same fence that we have at our other storage lot 150 feet away. It's the exact same one. We had the city come down before we installed anything and they inspected the footings where they were being placed measured the setbacks and told us exactly where to put everything. The city inspector approved it and instructed us to move forward and put it in. The fence was installed and approved. It's the same one as our other storage areas. That's right. We then applied for the second permit for fencing that runs along the property lines. Again, they should have known this was a commercial property at this point because we submitted for vinyl privacy fencing and they denied us. They said we had to, that's what you said. Vinyl privacy fencing and we had to put in chain link fence that that was a requirement. So we complied with that and put in the chain link fence that they asked us to put in six feet tall. Throughout all of these interactions with the city at no point did anyone mention that we would need to apply for the special exception when I called the Utilities Commission to to inquire about utilities. Those are the ones that told me that this was something that needed to be going through zoning because of the special exception and that's how I started this process. So now I've spent $36,000 on fencing that was approved by the City of Newsmeerner Beach and now being told that it doesn't meet the special exception requirements. We've been trying to do things the right way throughout this whole process. Continuously went to the city for guidance, but unfortunately we're not given the correct guidance. And that's where we're here today. Anything else? I don't have much more other than, you know, it's quite obvious what we were planning on doing. We bought the home or the property under NSB boat and RV storage. Our existing storage facility at 544 Doris Street is B3. The setbacks of the fence are exactly the same as 666. So how would we know? We wouldn't know. We're not know big developers here it's a small business so we went into this city and followed the process and this is where we're at so this has been going on a year so I just asked if you look at the big picture some of what Jake said is is true and I'm not saying anything he said it is not true but there's a bigger picture here so So I just asked you to take a look at that and we're open for questions. You come full with us asking you some questions? Yeah. Okay, really good. Any of my colleagues have anything, Commissioner Perine? So my heart goes out to you. I've been in your shoes. That's part of the reason why I'm up here. Unfortunately, I hate hearing that story because identically the same thing happened to me in 2014. I had the same thing with building a new home. The city didn't tell me, but they stamped their approval and something and then down the road, I had a life or a special exception. So my heart goes out to you for that. I don't have any questions. I don't like hearing these stories. I hope we can fix that. Anybody else? Commissioner McGurk. Yeah, actually my questions go back to Jake. I'll bring him back up. Thank you. So anybody else? Any them? Okay. Good, you Good. So, it was always your intent to duplicate the unit, the facility out of the street. You made that clear to the city staff when you came in the very first time? Yeah. And the fact that the house was... Who'd you speak with? The permitting departments. I'm not sure who was sitting at the desk that day, but the house at that point was already torn down. They pulled that permit out. They could see it. We were talking about it. She had seen that. So that would have floored her in. There was no way that we could be a residential property because there was no house there. And she was looking to permit with me. The setbacks were always kind of a gray area. So we went back and forth during the permitting process and we physically went into the office twice. The setbacks were always kind of a gray area. So we went back and forth during the permitting process and we physically went into the office twice just to make sure we were all on the same page. So I said, well, before we pour any footings, let's make sure the inspector goes out there. So the contractor, he dug the footings, they went out, pulled tape, and went through the whole process. And then that's where we're at. And we really, actually, on the side, we wanted the vinyl fence, so it would block the neighbors. And with the setback, we felt that was fine, and we were denied. Another question, and it may be for Jake, there's something about the visibility zone there, is there is there an intrusion into visibility triangle where you can't see when you're coming out so it offers any danger to either the people coming in or pedestrians? I don't believe so at all because there's only one egress and that that's on the west side. We don't have a gate on the east side. So, and that backs the row or tracks. So there's plenty of room there. And the fence line on Doris Street is set back enough where the two driveways come out on the other side. There shouldn't be any visibility issues. Okay. Okay, thank you. Commissioner McGrath? Yeah, so what I was saying about the plants, the autographed plant, it's a beautiful looking plant, but I recommend you don't use it. I'm not going to tell you you can't, but I can go to put a carpentry because you can grow that six feet high out of foot wide where you can let it go six feet wide at 15 feet high. It does very well and either cool or very hot. So, but the autographed plan is not zone down for this area up here, and it will freeze, and it will die, and then you'll have to replant. So... very well and either cold or very hot. So, but the autographed plan is not zoned down for this area up here, and it will freeze, and it will die, and then you'll have to replant. So, regardless of the landscapers, tell you I assure you that'll happen. I wanted to plant that myself, and it will freeze here. The other lot you're talking about is that on the corner of Ronic? You said you have another door and yeah it's it's right on the door it's the same address. Oh okay we're not talking about a separate location. Yes. It is a separate location. 544 it's just down the street so yeah it is. Yes it's a separate location. Is that one? Is that one on the corner ofora? Yes. OK. So it's ironic. That one has a problem when you're on Dora heading north and you come to Ronic, you to see to the west. You got to inch up very carefully. Now that's been like that forever. Definitely. That's not I understand. I would just curious because every time I see that I'm like. Not to put a certain size vehicles in the haven't done. Right, right. Yeah, that's a unique situation. I was just curious about that. That's why I asked. Okay. I have no more questions. We'll have a question for Jay. Thank you guys. Thank you so much. Big one more statement. Just so you get an opportunity also at the end to make closing remarks. So be Just so we're clear, I mean we're only trying to accommodate this change. I mean we don't want to plant more plants. And when we put the permit in to demo the two homes, there were, I don't know how many dozens of palm trees. That was included in the permit to remove those trees. And now we're being told we got to plant trees. So we're doing what we can here, but now we're gonna be spending more money, we spent $15,000 to demo these two homes and the plants that were all approved. And now we're having to put new plants in irrigation and trees. It's just just to me it's a backward cycle and these two departments are there's one floor from separated from one another. There's got to be some communication breakdown there. Yeah we'll be asking some questions. Sure I appreciate that. Thank you both. Thank you. We'll come back at the end and have you wrap up if you'd like to say some comments at the end. Thank you. Jake, can you come back up? How does it happen? How is it that we get an inspector on the site? We talk to these folks. How in the world, it doesn't look good for our work inside the house. Can you help me get there? Well, I mean, I obviously can't explain to everyone down on the building department for this whole thing. But, you know, and the text aren't always the most experienced in these things in the first place. But, you know, what they did approve would be for a residence on the property line. But we know that there's not gonna be a residence there because we know the zoning, since you tear it and want to think down, you're not gonna be able to put a residence back up. So yeah, so that's what I'm saying is I can't explain how we ended up with this fence on the property line because the fence that is there along the side property line would be something that's for a residence. How it ended up, you know, if this tech person knew that the house was gone, which they're saying that they did, I can't explain that away. Commissioner McGurray. So, so Jake, yeah, you know, it's the mayor hit on it. I guess my question is this, people come in, it's zone B3. There's a rule for a fence on B3, which required that to come in. So regardless if there was an existing house on it or not, just simply by the zoning B3, if I understood you correctly, that fence needs to come in three feet. Is that accurate or not? Because it's a residence at that time, it could be set, because there's no buffer no buffer requirement for a resident so you could have your fence right along that prop line if it was a residence so it's a non-conforming use correct with B3 zoning and when they applied for the permit the house was there like said, I have the permit that references the homeowner being responsible for things. And that's, you know, that's what I have. Okay, so, if I understand the process, they went to the building department. They sat down with a building department tech, asked them questions and got some answers. Yes. When or did they go to the planning department? They came to us. I think we did one of our pre-ups that we do every Wednesday, pretty much all day in November. So, I mean, you know, we have a business rep that's also downstairs that helps people with new businesses. The resources are there. Why they didn't inquire or why a tech didn't say, hey, you're starting a new business in town. If I want to talk to this person, I can't explain it. So that was funny you You mentioned that because that was to be my next question. What happened to this liaison that we're supposed to have so these things don't continue to happen? I guess we have a new person that was hired in that position, too. And that was probably back in October or something. So let me ask you about the process. I would guess because from my knowledge of it, that if I wanted to do anything, the first thing I'm going to do is go to the Planning Department. It's the Planning Department, the Bill in the Department's for Permits. Planning Department is going to tell me all the rules and the LDR andDR and code of ordinances at all. That's what you guys are gonna tell me, right? Correct. Okay. So they first went to the building department and whatever they did, they did, but at some point they did come to the planning department. Yes, much later, I think she said when the, you know, Kenny Hoah utility is herah utilities or maybe Lynn said, hey, you guys need to do a special exception for this. Because we do these boat and RV storage just pop up quite a bit. And so we're kind of going through these fairly regularly. Okay. Okay. So the way I see this is, we're in a little bit of a conundrum. For whatever reasons the process didn't catch this, they spent $36,000 on offense. And in a perfect situation, I would have given you the response that I already gave you and left it at that. But I think we need to, I think there needs to be some forgiveness here under the circumstances. I would allow them to keep the fence and the fence doesn't meet the height, right? It's right now, it needs to be six feet. It's six foot. It is six feet. Yeah, but like I said, they had proposed in putting up this screen along it to basically block it. A screen that covers that. This covers it. Up to four foot,. You've seen to be more into the idea of six foot, but the four foot is required by the special exception requirement that's built into B3. So well, and it with this is just I mean this is just my opinion because we got five of us out here and and you guys. What is the, is it best for us to try to deal with this, or is it best for you guys to try to deal? I mean, my personal opinion is I'd put a screen up on that, let them plan it on the inside, irrigate it, and move on from it, and try to learn from how this got. My thought on fairness of this whole situation, because I've kind of pondered this whole thing because I'm the one to understand if you're kind of explaining this whole thing away right now Is I thought it would be fair to have the screen attached to it more or less get the Intent of it met I think that would probably work out better than the hedges on the inside of defense Just because they tend to not be maintained, whatever the case may be. I say put their palm trees out front in either on the door side or both three or four. You decide, put some shrubs out front, irrigate those areas and call it a day. It's got in my thoughts. So you're talking about put palm trees in the right of way? No, because they have the fence on the street ends five feet off the property line. So you actually have some space there to plant some trees on their property. So you can make it look good from the street and then the sides, except for where people have to be able to back out and see around it. You could have the bulk of this area screened from the north and south of two homes that are there. Okay, so I've followed what you said except for each peat what you would do with the landscaping. Put it on the shrubs and trees on the east and west end along Dora frontage and along the peacock frontage. Okay, what about the north and south end of the property? The screen. No, no hedge. Well, unless you wanted to make them move the whole thing in three feet, then you can go with the hedge. But I think to put it on the inside behind a screen seems kind of like pointless, you know. Well, not necessarily. I mean, it's not the ideal situation, but I think it's better than nothing. But that's just again, I'm not, yeah, it's subjective here. I could just see it, you know, I'm not saying they don't have green thumbs, they might be great at it, but I'm a little concerned about the head just making it behind the kind of, I agree, but in the end, I guess that would be. No, ma'am, no, ma'am, no, ma'am, You'll be a public participation just a minute. Have a seat and I'll get to you. I promise. You'll have a chance. Well, I understand and I, I'm sorry. So Mr. Manager, you got this picture and you know we've got some work to do with the process and your process guy so my view before we hear from the public is we can't hold the public responsible for fixing department A and department B even if they're in the same building. So there's obviously a break down there. And we, public good needs to be served. That means the neighbors and everybody. So we'll hear from the public in just a second. But clearly, we've got a process that we need to have tried stuff. Thanks, Jake. I appreciate your comments. Don't go home yet. I'll be right here for a minute. You betcha. Thank you. the Commissioner will now hear from members of the public wishing to comment in favor of or oppose to the special exception to allow the vote slash RB facility to operate in the B3 zone. So if you come forward, you'll be heard. You'll be given three minutes. We're not answering questions, but we'd love to hear what you have to say. Yes, ma'am.. Hello I'm Deva Shaw. I live three houses down from this site. I'm also if you're going to go this route then you're going to help me out because that block is listed as zero lot lines. You guys don't have the documents because you would not store the paperwork. I have a piece of paper and I will bring it and we will talk about it. I have a neighbor that puts a fence up against my house three feet away from my house. And I cannot do anything down the side of my house. Now you're willing to let these people put the fence up and put a screen up on it and make a protection type thing. That's going to blow down on one storm and then we're going to have it all open up again. So whatever is in there is going to be exposed. Then when he talks about going on the setback requirement on the trees and stuff, you have to have a right away. So when you back out, you got to see what's coming both ways. Then we have a million dollar school behind us that we use as a shelter when we have a hurricane. That they have a role fence back there. I understand they want to use it for storage, but the place they have down the end of the street is a storage that was Existent with chain link fence on our block. We're not allowed to replace chain fence anymore That was abolished that was in the building code you either go with wood or you go with the plastic You are not to put a chain link fence The guy that put the fence up next to me. I fought him tooth and L. So if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. So if you're gonna let them do that, then I'll meet you and you can help me. Because I feel like you're letting them use the law that you say you made a mistake on your behalf. You pulled they pulled the permit and and they were fully aware of what the pool was gonna do and that they were gonna put a storage in there and trailers, but there's big boats in there and there's no maintenance been done and there's since they moved in there. So if you let them put up some kind of gardening material and keep that rot iron fence up there. How do you figure that's going to keep everything copicetic in the neighborhood? It's zone B3 and residential. It's not just commercial and you're wrong. You could have put a house back there because your grandfather didn't. You can. I put my house back. My my house caught on fire 92 and I put my house right back where it burned down so that's not true either so we need to do a little research I got a whole bunch of research on my home I built my home back they could put a house back there if they want to and you couldn't stop them. It's not, it's grandfathered in and it is not abolished from it. But what I'm saying is the way they want to put the fence up, who's going to put the fire out when we have the chlorine pool store in the front and they have all this gas stored on that block. I'm four houses down. There's the nearest water place is across the street over by the black bears. We were just discussing with the fire marshal that the hydrant in front of the 711 is dead. It doesn't work. So how do we get water back there to put a fire out if we get these two things going and we have a Fire we just had 99 mile in our winds on this last storm all them transformers blue and caught two of the landscapes on fire back there So what will we do when those two go up in flames? I appreciate your comments. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. I'll be down to pull my arm out for my fence. Thank you, ma'am. I'll be right up against the other guys' fence. Thank you, ma'am. Good evening, everybody. Mr. Mayor, how are you? My name's Dylan Curtis. I live at 6.5, 5 Doros Street. Stop by to hear some of the concerns that we are talking about. And. Mayor, how are you? My name is Dylan Curtis. I live at 6'5", 5'5", Doros Street. Stop by to hear some of the concerns that we are talking about. And I was kind of on board for some of it. I understand considering the zoning if the house is going to go. It's going to move in a certain direction. And that's totally understandable. So of course, I work for the city as well. and I went to work for a 24-hour shift and I came home and the house next door was gone. Then I went to do another shift. I came back to the house next door was gone and Then I went to another shift. I came back. There was limestone everywhere and That's where I kind of started to have a few concerns Again how the lady before me was talking about fire load and things like that obviously things like boat storage Right across the street for me. I opened up my window and there's where that house used to be. It is a bit unfortunate to hear that due to just a communication issue, the people that houses are still standing there. They haven't been there. I'm very much a still residential street for me. I look out my front door and where I was like, okay, we could do a fence and maybe some shrubbery. All right, well now that's just gonna be a screen due to a miscommunication. It feels like I'm starting to eat that a little bit and I've got really no skin in the game here. So even for the essence of a residential street for somebody like me that works for the city, there's not very many places I can afford around here and to have a little bit of an essence of a neighborhood has been nice, I've really enjoyed living on Dora Street. So little changes like that, again, is nothing that I'm ever gonna jump out of my seat for joy about. Another boat storage is not the first thing I'd like to look at outside of my house. I'm over there since last April. Every day I'm picking up beer cans out of the fence line. No one mows that little grass strip anymore that the house over there used to mow. I walk over there with my lawn mower now and take care of that. When you lose the residential side, you are going to lose the care of the property and the one directly across the street. The neighbors all are going to feel that as well. So even things like a screen versus a fence that Mr. McGurk, I was totally understanding the not really understanding the difference of the four foot and the little I completely agree with you and that's where I was absolutely on your side. But then when we revert right back to the screen idea, okay, well now I'm just living next to a lot that, you know, we don't have the care of a residential street anymore now we're just moving towards profit and commercial areas and for us that have lived there and enjoyed our time living there it's it's a bit of a sting it doesn't it doesn't feel like it's justice just from a mistake that was out of our hands so just some concerns I had but thank you for everything that you'll do I appreciate appreciate your time. Thank you sir. Appreciate your time. You appreciate your comments. Anyone else for public participation? Good evening. My name is Karen Poveromo, 653 Doris Street. I'm directly across from the area in question and next to Dylan to just spoke. I have lived in Newsomort of each since 1971, I graduated from Newsomort of High School, worked as a candy striper and a registered nurse at Burt Fish Medical Center and local physicians offices for 47 years. As you can see, I'm still a working member of the community. I raised my family in this community and my grandchildren are still being raised in this community. We have all watched the area grow and are experiencing the side effects of our growth. Protecting our neighborhoods is essential to preserving our community. The Volusia County property appraisers cite lists the owner as a gentleman in Colorado. I don't know if that's correct. I don't know where relationship he has to these people who are trying to put this business forward. If that is true, then that person who cares and has a deep understanding of our history is in the state of Colorado. And we see that a lot in our community now with out of state owners. The pictures you were given are of the property down the street at 544 Doris Street. That's the property that's under the same name, NSB, vote, and RV storage. It isn't 150 feet away from the other location. It's 1,056 six feet away or .2 miles, because that's the same distance it is from my home. Concerning the 600 location, or the 6, 6, 6 location, there are residential homes on most of this street. These residents have lived here for decades. Allowing a boat and RV storage will not only devalue their homes, but change the character of the neighborhood. As you can see from those pictures, I have provided, the issue is not landscaping or how high the fence is. NSB boat and storage is an ice sore and does not belong in the neighborhood with residential homes. In reference to the conversation you all have just had, the residents should not be punished for this city's mistake. Safety is an issue and we are all greatly concerned about this. People stroll through this area and they walk their dogs. Chism Elementary is within walking and visual distance of these properties. Chism staff and supporters have worked hard to make this school a safe and aesthetically pleasing facility. Again, a boat and RV storage area does not belong in a residential area or near a school. It belongs in an industrial area. I have other pictures I'd like to share. These pictures are of the 660 Dora Street location. The property owner, as you know, has already started storing RVs and boat trailers on the property at that location. There is a small RV and several boat trailers and such. I was just notified of this meeting and had no prior notification of the planning and zoning board meeting held on March 3rd. Research has shown that ignoring aesthetics in a commercial zone can lead to long-term negative consequences, including decreased property values, difficulty attracting quality businesses to the area, a decline in the quality for residents and businesses, a tarnished reputation for the area, and too many others to mention. In closing, my own family's business thrived in New Sermon Abiche for 47 years. And even though it's now closed, my 98-year-old mother is alive and well. She asked me to pose this question to Mayor Cleveland and each commissioner. Would you want this eye sore across the street from you? Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your comments. Anyone else for public participation? Joe Gloubac, again, I'm here because we're facing with some of the same issues in Venetian Bay. The question comes about power water and restroom requirements. I've not heard any of that. I assume that's all covered. Okay. The thing that I'm really concerned about though is you just don't drive a boat and put it in storage if you use your boat, if any of you have, you're sitting out there cleaning it, washing it, oil, gasoline, marine life flows off of the boat when you're there. How do you prevent that from contaminating the real water system? Thank you. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your comments. Anyone else for public participation? Seeing none, public participation is now closed. Quasiad judicial hearing is now closed. I have some final remarks from the city staff. Jacob, you got any? You know, I do understand exactly what all the residents are saying around there regarding this use. You know, it's ideally, you know, it would be nice to have the vegetation on vegetation on the outside to at least buffer as much as you can. I don't know, you know, what really is a suitable situation, a resolution to this whole thing. Going back to the whole fence thing again, you know, the permit does state, please be aware that it'll be at the homeowner's expense to do it, which is what the permit references and the permit is in a place where a residence a fence would be allowed for a residence. So I'm not ready to say that our own building department really made a mistake because the reference, you know, the permit references homeowners and it's in a location where a fence could be for a house. So I know that counters what they're saying, but the permit that we actually have supports where it's located. So any questions for Mr. Baker? I'm a little bit confused about some of the timing because the house was demolished several months before the fence permit was solicited. Yeah. And that's my understanding. Yeah. Well, with the property appraisers site said. And I'm also curious that there appears to be storage happening there now. And I'm wondering if they have a BTR. They have nothing. There should be nothing out there right now. But there is. Thank you. Jake, talk to us for a second about the fire. I wish that the chief was still here. Fire hydrant, flow, risk of, I'm worried about public safety for sure, and the good of the whole, and I want the whole neighborhood to take a hit. And I feel, you know, and we've got to figure out what we've done, because I think we've may have done something to these folks that they didn't expect. So, talk to me about the fire risk and is it safe to have anything there? As the fire marshal had noted that the fire flow would not be sufficient for a, if they were to enclose it with a structure. And I do know he said when they have fires, they actually, like the, I can't think of her last time, or now I was just going to have been spoke. I know they had to bring a water truck out for her house, whatever it was, 30 years ago because there wasn't flow for enough for it then. So I don't think it is the strongest right there. And this will have both close to people's homes. Yeah. How about the statement that the grandfathering and could a home be rebuilt, there, Jay? Okay, that's a different situation which she had. If your home gets destroyed by a tornado, if it gets hit by a hurricane, if it burns, you're allowed to build back what you have. But if you're taking it down voluntarily, no. So she was allowed to rebuild because that's kind of like the act of God you're allowed to go back to what you had before Makes sense. Okay any other questions for Mr. Baker Thank you sir appreciate that The applicant has the opportunity to come back and have the final word if you guys have anything you'd like to say. Again, in closing here, we're just looking to move forward. We're open to feedback and come into a resolution. We've got a significant investment here. I want to bore you with the cost of the property. It is in our name, we bought it from an investor in Colorado, so that answers that question. As far as how the property looks today, it's an empty lot. There's my personal trailers in there, along with the friend's trailer in there. We are not storing boats in our vies in there right now. There is probably trash and debris that we pick up at 544 on a daily basis where we mo once a week and I have a full-time maintenance employee. So we do keep up with that property. And I challenge everyone to drive down Doris Street and look at 544 and look at some of the other properties, commercial properties around and make your own assessment on what's going on. But we've been told by the city to cease all construction, no more moving forward until this comes to resolution. So that's exactly what we've done. So I'm not gonna spend resources and any more time and money, mowing and picking up trash or whatever's going on until we have a solution here. And again, I'm willing and Jennifer's willing to move forward here, but it's to be within reason because I do again feel like we have done our due diligence and we followed what we thought were the guidelines and you know that's something clearly that the city needs to work on. So that's all I have Jennifer. Yeah and obviously we don't want this to be an eye sore for the neighbors and we want to make sure it's a street that everybody can be proud to Drive down and everything but realistically it is a B3 zone, which is a commercial district It's not exactly a full residential street and there are several other businesses on that street But we do intend to make it as nice looking as possible for the neighbors and want to keep everybody as happy as possible. Thank you both. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. Okay. I have some thoughts, America. All right. We're ready. So this is a transition from residential to B3. It's zone B3 and now we're going through the growing pains of slowly transitioning. So that horse is out of the barn. This is coming to us as a special exception. We don't technically have to approve it. But the question is what kind of businesses are actually going to go in there. I'm not sure what the thought was or from a planning perspective, long term planning, businesses were going to go in there, whether or not those lots were to complement lots on U.S. 1. It always seems like a good idea, a ripple in a bond, so to speak. This area is historically had low water pressure, same thing with some stooges use. At one time there were discussions about CRA money making infrastructure improvements. I think we may have done some of that or I'm not sure where that ended up. So we just seem to kind of be in a conundrum between a number of different things. And mostly it's old residential homes now with a commercial zoning and growing pains. And you know, I hear the residents and I sympathize with them. But we also are going to run into this problem with pretty much any business that tries to come in there. So there's a lot for us to, we've heard a lot tonight. I'd recommend that we postpone this two weeks and see if staff can meet with the applicant and get this stuff figured out and come back before us with a recommendation that they both can agree on. Just a lot we can kick this around all night. That's just my opinion personal opinion on that. Thank you very much. Commissioner Ashley. I would like to do what Jason says because I would like to go see the property myself. I'm just not that familiar with the neighborhood and both sides have an opinion. I want to form an opinion myself by going and seeing exactly what's going on there. Sir, Commissioner Mark. Just that I support the tabling for a couple of weeks and would ask that we find a way to soften the perimeter because we do still have a number of people living on that street. So in deference to the people who live there, do soften it in a way that would accommodate both the business but the people that live there. You should take that man. Anything from you, Commissioner Perry? No comment. Okay, very good. Yeah, I think we've got some work to do. And Mr. Mandra, I don't like to solve these from the dias. We're not here to work the problem out. We're here to set a policy and make a determination at the highest level. So there's some due diligence that could go on here to include that I think our process needs to be fixed. I think the applicants have got a good amount of money in it. It's their property. It's a zone for what they want to do. And as long as we do no damage, no harm to the neighboring places, which means a solid screen. And so we've given them advice to plant a screen that won't work. And so maybe it's the city's role to make them hold on what they've invested in that screen and that fence and maybe we pay to move that fence back, put the landscaping in front like the city planner says, that's what it was supposed to be, because of our breakdown. Maybe that's on us to eat so that we don't further damage them. I feel significantly for the residents there who don't want an unsightly neighborhood. I'm sympathetic to preserving the character of that community and our entire community. So unsightliness and decay is not right. It's a balance between the homeowners rights or the business owners rights or property owners rights to do what they've been told they can do. If our zoning isn't right or our process inside has them working one against the other, that's on us. We have to, as a city, to fix that. So I speak in favor of my colleagues' idea to have the staff come back with a recommendation, not tell up here you guys get to choose whether you want this or want that and us to engineer our way through it. It just weren't that's not our skill set and that's not what I don't think that's what we should be doing up here. So I would entertain actually first the smartest guy in the room, Mr. Manager, what's your view about what we should do next, sir? Well, I think you should postpone this for a couple of weeks and let us run through the property and see what we think is the best solution here. I don't think we're going to design a solution sitting here right now. There's been a lot said I don't know which end is up right now and who said what to who. So I'd like an opportunity to look at that what happened and hear from all sides and figure out the best solution we can to this. Absolutely. Okay so I entertain a motion. Madam City Attorney help me here is it is it to Not table it is continued to you. April 22nd continue to date certain which to be April 22nd is our motion to that effect Some of And the second from Ashley. Is there any more discussion by us? I say the 22nd gives the saying you can't be done but it gives exactly one week to get everything finalized and back in and if everyone's having these conversations a week could be a tight that code for it's not long enough. Well it could be but it's going to be tight. How much time you need, Jake? I think it could be tight. How much time you need, Jake? I think it could be accomplished. I also know I have to go out of town for a wake this weekend. I'm not going to hear Thursday afternoon or Friday, so that leaves me like three days to have this whole thing done. Maybe May 13th. May 13th. Meeting on May 13th. Great. With consent can we amend the motion? I'll amend the motion to continue with to the May 13th meeting. Without objection. All right, very good. Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Ashley. Yes. Vice Mayor Martin. Yes. Commissioner Perine. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Thank you. Thank you much. The motion carries. Thank you, folks, for coming in. Okay, on to public hearings. The city attorney will read ordinance 1625 for the second time by title only, please. ordinance number 1625. ordinance of the city of Nesmerna Beach granting a non-exclusive franchise to cliff berry ink to provide construction and demolition debris removal services within the city of Nesmerna Beach outlining franchisees, duties, providing terms and conditions under which such franchise shall operate, providing versibility, providing for conflicting ordinances, and providing an effective date. Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate that. I see Director Ray is in the batter's box. David, we're interested in your report, sir. Thank you, Mayor. This is once again a standard non-exclusive agreement that we have throughout the city for roll-off services for C&D and material, but I'm here to answer any questions that you may have. Any questions on the C&D? Seeing none, thank you so much. Appreciate that. Public hearing is now open. Are there any citizens who wish to speak on this topic. Please approach the podium and you'll be heard. Seeing none, public hearing is now closed. Is there a motion to adopt ordinance 1625? So moved. We have a motion. Second. And a second. Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Commissioner Ashley. Yes. Vice Mayor Martin. Yes. Commissioner Perrine. Yes. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Thank you very much motion carries. All right on to first readings. Madam City Attorney, a fuel read ordinance 1525 1725 and 1825 and 1925 for the first time by title only. I appreciate that. I believe we have a presenter, a consultant that will talk to us about item 11A, which is of interest to many. Ordinance number 1525. In ordinance of the city of Newsmerna Beach amending the land development regulations. Repealing and replacing Article 6, development, design, and improvement standards, Section 604-04, landscaping requirements, and Section 604-5-1 tree preservation to update and enhance landscaping and tree preservation requirements, providing for codification, providing for public hearings, providing for conflicting ordinances, providing for severability, and providing an effective date. Second reading and public hearing will be April 22, 2025. Yeah. Yeah. This is the one with the presentation. Thank you. Stephanie, go ahead. Yes. As you know, we have been working diligently on Section 60404 Landscape Requirements and Section 604051 Tree Preservation. I have James Hartfield here with VHB Consulting. He's been on this project since the beginning in 2022. And so he is going to give a presentation on all the changes and answer questions regarding any of those changes. Thank you. That's good. And so welcome, Sarah. Appreciate you coming in. So just for my colleagues, I have not read this cover to cover. It probably needs to be read, cover to cover by all of us. And so this will be a start in a process for adoption that will be continuing, you know, we will continue this on to the second meeting. I'm sure the general public feels the same way. This is about our trees. This is about our canopy. This is about what makes New Samarna special. And there's all sorts of offerings here. So with respect, we're going to be delighted to hear what you have to say but likely we're going to have to see you again or or somehow get in touch with your firm again after you're after you're done because there's a lot of meat in this thing and we appreciate your work. Go right ahead sir. All right so like Stephanie said my name is James Hartzfield with VHB and yeah we're talking about the landscape code update. I have been the community planner on this project again since 2022. The project managers were managers were bird of fantasy. If I'm not here for the next meeting it will be her. So I just wanted you to see her face as well. So generally when we when we start this project there were a number of goals. The main ones were updating the code language to be more consistent with best practices, emphasizing some maintenance and operations, minded regulations. There was a desire for illustrations within the code to make things unambiguous. And then the last and a really critical one was revising payments and penalties. So that's what we've tried to address overall, along with generally streamlining and consolidating the code, where it currently exists in several parts of the land development code. We wanted to bring it all into one section. So I'm going to go over kind of the big headline portions of the code and not super specific as to what's changed, but whether or not it is new or existing language. So the first is the intent and applicability sections. These are entirely new because we are consolidating that code into one area. The intent is there to guide those gray cases essentially. Give a good idea of what the codes designed to do and provide a General understanding if if something comes up. This not explicitly addressed With the applicability that identifies you know who is subject to the landscaping requirements within that There are some there are actually four exceptions I don't know if I don't believe he's here anymore, which is a shame. Those exceptions are due to the corridor overlay district because that has its own landscaping requirements. That's a clear exception. Clearing of underbrush and small trees that don't fit the minimum requirements. And then, we'll wear the other two. Oh, yeah, remodeling of an existing home that's not expanding the footprint. And then the last one is tree nurseries. Because landscaping requirements with tree nurseries is kind of a strange conflict of interest. So the next big section is general requirements that covers what is a landscaping plan, what are the minimum material requirements, what are the maintenance requirements. Within the landscaping plan. A lot of that is new. It just generally describes, depending on the use, single family, residential, multi-family, commercial, what do we want to see on that plan. There was a change from the first time we brought this to the workshop where some of that language talked about like a landscaping professional. We we've changed that to be more explicit to a landscape designer or landscape architect Material standards is a new section that describes like I said the quality of the landscaping materials. There are some new Best practices language kind of thrown in there that discusses the like non-vegetive materials. And then with maintenance stuff, a lot of that is actually existing language with a little more specific language regarding attractive and healthy conditions that is just kind of language you see in a lot of codes that gives a little a little oomph to code enforcement. With solder requirements this is actually all existing language that is specific to common areas. Once again with non-vegetive materials that's fully a new section that provides guidance for the use of stone gravel artificial turf that type of stuff when used in conjunction with vegetative materials. Lance, or the utility section, this was a big sticking point actually at the beginning of the project. We did kind of change it as the project went along. Generally, the guidance for landscaping near utilities areas is to avoid it, but this section does provide some some guidance when that can't happen. Minimum landscaping standards is those requirements for single-family lots, new subdivisions, commercial lots, industrial lots. The biggest change here is the update for the minimum plantings required on lots. Currently it's 2,500, 1 tree per 2,500 square feet. We have increased that to 1 tree per 2,000 square feet. So that's about a 20% increase or that is a 20% increase for the tree canopy throughout the city. With parking areas that is also primarily a existing language but we did add some specificity when it comes to parking islands. How big they need to be for minimum sizes and then planting requirements for those. And special uses is all existing language that covers those edge case uses that have within the zoning code that have specific landscaping language tied to them. This is things like playgrounds or playgrounds or childcare facilities attached to churches. They have like a hedge requirement, it's stuff like that. So I did want to talk about the minimum landscape requirements. I'm going to ask you to ignore the numbers on the chart because or on the picture because I apparently forgot how to do math when I did that. But that is actually supposed to be a 5,000 square foot lot. And the difference with the existing and the new code is right now it requires two trees. One of those trees has to be a canopy tree. The new code would require three trees with two of those trees being a canopy tree. So that's really what the difference is. And then we do have a chart to kind of compare common. I'm going to put air quotes around that word. Common lot sizes ranging from 5,000 square feet up to a half an acre. And the difference between the current code and what would be required with this new language. So the next section that we're gonna talk about is the buffer section that is all new language. This is just minimum standards who's responsible for planting and maintaining the buffers, what's supposed to go in them, and then it does cover a little bit of access requirements that is some existing language. Generally speaking, we created a matrix of zonings, like a zoning table matrix that says if zone A is next to zone B, what size is that buffer supposed to be, and this provides guidance as to what other types of planting should go in there, whether or not it requires a screening, like a fence or a hedge, that type of stuff. The tree preservation section is kind of a mix of some things changing, moving around, and then when we get to penalties and fees, well, that's a little bit different. Most of these requirements have been maintained from what they are currently. We have expanded the applicability section and allowed for non-permanated removal of invasive species that type of stuff. Minor changes to the tree removal and replacement section, mostly for that applicability and for making changes consistent with other sections of this code, which is the minimum planting requirements. With replacement trees, that is a little bit of a bigger change because, well, no, it's a huge change. We changed the tree calculation. We were told going into this that calculating tree replacements was difficult for a lot of people involved, staff and applicants. So we changed it all to a diameter breast height measurement, and we'll go over that with the next slide as well. And then also the calculation of fees. So here is an example of 7,200 square foot lot. The calculation of this, basically it assumes that there are nine non-specimentaries because that changes calculations a little bit. The total DBA changes of these 56 inches. So if somebody came in, clear-cut that lot, they would need to replace 22.4 inches. They have a couple of options with that then. They can do completely new plantings, plant up to 22.4 dBH inches at the minimum planting requirements that equals out to three to five trees or they can replace up to the minimum using absolute minimum planting requirements. That would be three trees plus a payment of $1,200. So that's a mitigation plus planting or they can do the full planting. So this is a comparison of the existing costs of treewood placement versus what we have proposed. All costs are calculated on a per DBH inch basis. So $135 for non-specimen, non-historic trees verified on site. 325 for specimen trees and 750 for historic trees. Specimen and historic trees are defined within the code already. And so this graph shows the cost of those replacements as those trees get larger, whether or not they're specimen or not. So a, you know, a 12 inch non-specimentary, the replacement cost for that is over, a little over $1,600. The current code cost for that is $11,500. So it's a pretty significant change. So the violations to the tree code, if somebody comes in, they pull permits or they don't proparements, they just cut down their tree, the calls are generally the same unless the tree was identified on a landscape plan as being preserved. So they still have to pay for the removal of that tree. If it was identified on the plan, on a plan, it requires an additional $400 per DBH inch. So, and then in addition to that, if the tree size cannot be verified, this is also a new language, it is assumed to be a 24-inch preserve specimen tree, which would cost $17,400. So the idea there is to incentivize one, identifying the trees that you're cutting down, and two, to not remove everything, and let code enforcement find out about it. So this is gonna be my last slides, but the permitting violations and penalties and appeal sections, those are largely unchanged except for the violations and penalty section with those costs that I had just described. The appeal section is only minorly changed really to describe, to be in line with the other language of this code. And the permitting section does add one new area for the removal of trees on single-family lots, which is currently not addressed. But most of that language is existing or only slightly modified text. So that is the presentation. Go on in questions. Yeah, appreciate that, and any questions from my colleagues. A couple. Where's your firm located? Oh, my firm is located at 201 East Robinson Street or Land of Florida. Good, good, good. And you use an arborist to make you to help with these determinations. We do have a team of landscape architects, not arborists. No arborists. No arborists. Okay. And then the governance on penalties, is that regulated anywhere or fabricated inside your company? Is there any state requirements on the penalties or replacement damers? Is there a governance and if so where? There is some preemption in the when it comes to penalties that the state does have with regards to the safety of structures that that can't be that can't be abridged by the code. Generally, though, no. The cost of penalties is decided is a home rule. What are the cities do you have you helped in Volusia County? I have not helped any personally. Your firm? My firm with regards to a landscape code. Yeah I can't speak to them. Okay. I've only been here for three years so I appreciate that. Yes sir. So we get into penalties, the cost of replacement trees and penalties and this may not be for you. This may be a discussion and for my staff down the road. Number one, do large developers get treated differently from a typical homeowner? So they shouldn't. That was one of the things that was- You said they shouldn't? They should not. That's one of the things that we were trying to address in this code. There is one section I will say within this proposed language that does, with regards to the tree survey for a large developer, where they are allowed to survey a portion of their lot and then apply that portion to a larger section. That's a negotiation between the city manager or his designate and the developer. My concern is a large developer. I'm referring to the large developers who are all developers as soon as we go to the building department and planning department and apply for any kind of permanent application. I'm going to add a share or add on to my home or build a 2000 square front home. The large developers who build thousands of homes have very deep pockets and get afford these kinds of penalties. The average homeowner with the average income in the area can hit really disproportionately hard for some mix-up or even if they blatant, we just cut something, cut a tree down. Or large developers would do the same thing, look the other way, they can digest the cost. Maybe it's a business decision for them. So, I'm a little concerned that we would treat a homeowner the same way. Those costs cannot start adding up very quickly and be very disproportionate. What do you do? I have a property. We've had over the past 15 to 18 years, since I renovated that property. We've had numerous hurricanes. I've lost some trees, I've lost half of a tree. Things happen. How do I, when or what is the mechanism to where I'm gonna say want to do something again to this property to improve it in some way and I provide a survey to the city. And then the city says, well wait a second, we have one back from 20 years ago, where are these trees? We don't see these bestment trees or these other trees that were around. How is that going to be reconciled? How does a residential, individual residential property or business owner defend themselves? What is the mechanism for the city finding a resident for trees that don't seem to be on the property today that were on a survey 15 or 20 years ago. Or is that even a concern? So this is a little bit little bit of a difficult question to ask. Well, it might be outside the scope of this, but this, and like I said, this may be something for my staff, not necessarily you, but I start seeing these costs. And I get a little nervous. So within this code, part of the applicability section does discuss a single family resident coming in and what's required on a landscape plan as part of that. A single family, a single lot developing like that does or redeveloping as could be the case does not require like a full tree survey. It could just be a sketch signed off by an LA or a landscape designer. And in that case, I can't speak for staff, but I think the intention there is firstly to check that they are meeting the minimum requirements. All right, thank you. I didn't want to, I'm putting you on the spot by outside your element, so I appreciate the comments. Any other questions? Yes, ma'am, Mr. Burin. So I can't count the number of times I've seen a new homeowner buy a property. There's an old tree there with roots uprooting the deck, uprooting the foundation, messing up the sidewalks. And I've seen the red tape that has been given by this city to get that tree cut down. And it's destroying other things, but the tree is healthy. So I have a problem with treating a homeowner that they're going to have to come up with $17,000 to cut a tree down when the roots are destroying something on their land. How do you handle that? So it kind of depends on the tree. If the tree is a historic tree, I think that does create some level of barrier. If it's doing damage to the property though, there is recourse via an arborist to come in and say, yeah, this tree is a danger to this property. I've seen this happen. I'm not in favor of this. I don't know who's behind the push and this but I'm not for it. Okay. So it's first reading and we'll get a lot of time. I'll buy the apple. I did want to add the current cost for removing a tree right now are considerably higher than what's being proposed in this current code or in the new code. Are you saying cost that the home that they're going to have to pay to the city or cost that they're going to have to pay a tree service to cut that down. Violation costs. So I think, so if you have a property that has, you know, the plumbing is being uprooted by tree roots, we're very sympathetic to property owners. If you put in a permit and you ask, hey, I would like to remove this tree, these are my damages. We assess the property. We say say how many trees are required on the property? How many will you have left? If you meet the minimum requirement, you don't have to replace. We'll allow you to remove it. As he said, if it is historic, it does require still coming to the City Commission for approval, for removal. However, if it is not, staff is, you know, we work with residents all the time. If removing the tree brings them below their minimum requirements, say they're required to have three trees on the lot, it would bring them to two. We'd say, you know, you can replace a tree somewhere else on your property that's not going to interfere with your foundation of your house or your plumbing. So I think we're getting mixed up with the cost of removal. It's the cost of a violation. So we are charging a $28 permit fee to apply to have a tree removed on a property for residential. And this is gonna go through $28, too, how much? No, okay. It's not changing. The application fee is not changing. The violation recourse is changed. So the violation went from what to 17,000? So currently in our code, our violations do not have, and I'm talking residential. Because commercial and residential are treated a little differently as far as violation currently For residential properties if you were to remove a tree without a permit We take the measurement of the tree we do the cross-sectional inches and you have to provide replacement on site There's no option for payment to the city you have to either replace the required onsite and if you can't fit them on your site, you have to donate them to the city to be used on city property. So right now, that method doesn't seem to be working with the amount of violations that we're receiving. We would like the payment option to be in place so that we could use that money for maintaining our city trees or replanting without having to accept their choice of donated tree. And put it in our tree fund. We could buy tree care equipment and landscaping for the fee. I'm going to go back to the fee. I'm going to go back to the fee. I'm going to go back to the fee. I'm going to go back to the fee. I'm going to go back to the fee. I'm going to go back to the fee. I'm going to go back to the fee. I'm going to go back to the fee. I'm going to go back to the fee. fine they just have to go replace the same diameter tree to a $17,000 fine. So... from zero fine they just have to go replace the same diameter tree to a $17,000 fine. So, our most recent violations that we received in trees was $125,000 worth of trees. They planted on site and they're putting them on their property with their new build and then they donated the remaining of those trees to the city and we've used them on city property. I need more time to digest this. There's got to be a lot more notice on this for our city before we jump into something like that. The realtor board of association needs to be notified. We need to look at other cities. I think that's just a huge government overreach possibility. I need to know more. As part of this project, we did look at Orman Beach, Dania Beach, Dania Beach. No. Orman Beach, Coco Beach, and Frenundinia Beach, actually, as comparison of best practices. Okay. Thank you for your presentation. Stephanie, thank you for the clarification. And we look forward to doing some research in the second reading, which is coming. Madam City Attorney, I think what's left is 1725, 1825 and 1925. Okay, yes ma'am. Ordnance number 1725. In ordinance of the City of News, Mernibi, Channexing 9.1 plus or minus acres of property generally located east of Corbin Park Road, North of Page trophy hunter trail addressed as 2061 page Avenue Providing for redefining boundaries of the city designated the property within Commission Zone 1 Providing for public hearing provided for required filings providing for conflicting ordinances for videnous observability and providing effective day Second reading on public hearing will be April 22nd, 2025, ordinance number 1825. And ordinance of the city of New Smurneby to many of the comprehensive plan. Changing the future land use designation of 9.1, those are minus acres of property, generally located east of Corbin Park Road, North of Page Avenue and Tripview Hunter Trail. Addressed as 2061 Page Avenue from Vol. Bolusia County Urban Medium Intensity to City Medium and Density Residential, providing for a moment of the associated comprehensive plan maps to show the area incorporated into the city, providing for public hearing, providing for conflicting ordinances and providing an effective date. Second reading in public hearing will be April 22nd, 2025. Ordnance number 1925 in ordinances to the City and East Burneronant 9.1 plus for minisegres of property generally located east of Corbin Park Road, north of Page Avenue and Trofe Vihundra Trail address those 2061 Page Avenue. From Volusia County R4A, Urban Single Family Residential Airport, O'Relay to City R2, a single family residential airport, O'Relay zoning district, providing for conflict ordinances providing for severability and providing an effective date. Secondary meeting public hearing will be April 26, 2025. Thank you ma'am. Appreciate that. And now on to boards and commissions. Madam City Clerk your report please. My report these two board vacancies that we have for housing authority and co-compliance will be presented to commission at our next meeting on April 22nd. Thank you. Have you gotten some candy? I know we're out you're doing a good job advertising again and again have you got candidates? We have gotten a couple candidates for code compliance that meet the requirements however the ones that were already pending were no longer valid they aren't able to serve so it is kind of balanced out. In housing we did get three new applicants as well for the housing authority appointment so it's working very well. Thank you ma'am. I appreciate your report. Okay on to Mayor and Commissioner Rapporte. We need to do Commissioner Martin's charter. Sure. I just wanted to say I, Steve Snively, who had been my one of my appointees to the charter review committee, his charity work in Africa is precluding him being able to attend as regularly as he would like. So I am appointing Sandra Smith to replace Steve's Niveley. Madam City Attorney, help me through the procedure. So you each got to appoint to each? So we can accept the resignation, right? We'll accept the resignation, Mr. Sniveley. All right right Excellent. All right. We do need to vote yes. We do approve. Okay We need to vote go ahead and vote. Okay, we love voting we do that well I just don't remember voting for the other appointees Not just vote and make it safe I think we voted this late. It was the issue that I had, but yes, we voted for them. But we did vote for them, but I had the same point. Your point miss, not your point miss. But we vote for an appointment. But I think the attorney likes the cleanness of a vote. So we have a nomination to a point. Sandra Smith. Sandra Smith Smith is her second there's a second minimum city clerk. Please call the roll vice mayor Martin Yes Commissioner Perine. Yes commissioner McGurk. Yes commissioner Ashley. Yes mayor Cleveland. Oh, yes. Thank you so much Okay, now we're there on to Reports of ice Mayor go ahead. Oh I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Okay. It is late. I've had a great couple of weeks participated in an absolutely joyous ribbon cutting for the new Mary Avenue Totlott playground. Traveled over to the Delan Sun Rail Station for the unveiling of a sculpture by our own Fred Goldstein, the same artist who donated a sculpture to the Watch and Worn Park. Great job pun intended by Biss Obblis-Jamison for the SEV Manufacturing and Technology Coalition with Career Source for the annual job fair. Applicants of all ages scheduled interviews and hope. So additionally, the Earn While You Learn program may have secured more businesses to help with paid internships. We had a fabulous day with the NSB Museum of History Heritage Day, and I tucked in the VFW Family Fund Day, which was also Saturday. And then I volunteered at the Veterorable Atlantic Center for the Arts, Horsen Around Fund Racer, much fun and good fundraising. And that's it. Okay, that's a lot. All right, thank you, ma'am. Commissioner McGurk. Thank you, Mayor. I just wanted to say, I've not the specific, but I wanted to say that as spring break winds down, I think that the small businesses in New Smirno Beach had a wonderful spring. Weather was very nice and the staff and police department and everybody did an amazing job again at making sure we got incentive right message to the people that we want here, which is families and people spending money and not teenagers running a month creating problems. And we have a very, very vibrant and healthy small business community. That's it. Very good. Thank you, sir. Commissioner Perrine. Thank you. A lot to ponder tonight. We had a lot on our plates. There was something brought up tonight by public audience that sparked my curiosity and it was about the electric bikes. If we can actually pull that information for our staff to look into that. I've had several people question that to me, what are the rules? Why are they allowed on the sidewalks? Just all kinds of things that I don't have the answer to. And we don't have a lot of bypass. I wish we had more. But the ones we do have, we need to know, are they being enforced? They, I've seen them go 25 miles an hour on that, nor cause away bike path. And I don't know how that could be right. So I appreciate the person that came forward and brought that up, I think it's time for us to look into that. Really good, without objection, city staff, Mr. Manager, if you'd have the appropriate votes on no chief Kirk and his predecessor have both been on that and they've got some ideas about how to fix that. Anything else? No, I think that's enough for tonight. Good. Commissioner Ashley. I would just like to highlight the lady who made a comment about Venetian Bay. Venetian Bay, the citizens, homeowners and condo owners really need help out there. They don't know what to do with the upcoming transition. Nobody knows when the transition is going to happen from JOSAM to the homeowners. And I don't have any answers either. So I would certainly like to help the people that live out there since I do too. And it's been on everybody's mind. The lady that mentioned the TKBR and the pool, pool, it was a private concern from the start. It still is a private concern, but it was used by most of the homeowners in the neighborhood. And so now that it's locked up, it's a real source of frustration. And I would like to come up with some solutions, but if there's any brainstorming that can happen, I would welcome that. Joe Dulubac mentioned a town hall. I wouldn't mind leading a town hall in Venetian day. And that's it for now. It was a very, very informative evening and my brain is like overflowing. Yeah, I share that. So just to respond directly, a city attorney can probably instruct us about what the city's responsibilities and abilities are to influence people that are doing private development. If they violate the MDA or they violate any of our LDRs, they violate anything that they've agreed to and go after them. It's tough on private property. We see that stuff's going on in Geosand breaking my heart and we wish we could do something. When people come up to me I often say I believe you have a civil case and if you find a lawyer that will take it they won't take it unless they think they can win it. I think that's the best avenue. Have you got advice Madam City Attorney? Absolutely. If there are violations of the MDADA we do have a process through code compliance but if it's you know just changing their the way of doing things you know we can have conversations as partners but we can't force that and yes a civil suit is always an option which I believe is still going on with two of those two cases out there. Thanks, I'm glad to breath it out. City manager and I had the opportunity to go to Tallahassee this week for Volusia days put on by the various chamber of commerce is in the area. It was powerful. We got to meet with Secretary of Commerce, the EEP, Secretary of Building, Representative Chase Tramont from our district, Tom Wright, the Appropriations Committee Chair, Tom Leake, and we were able to ask them privately, and directly to support our stormwater funding initiatives that are going on. We talked to them about we're not asking for a park, we're not asking for a stadium, we're asking for remediation of people that are suffering in our town. And so good Lord willing, those will make it into the budget. Mr. Copper did an amazing job convincing them that that's what we're supposed to be doing and that's why we were there. It was a very good time that Chamber of Commerce's were bolstered by the city, manager being there, and some elected's coming along and adding credibility to their business-oriented conversations. The bridge crash, it was a significant event. I'm hats off to the chief for all the spring break stuff, but Mr. City, Manager, my Navy days, there are mass casualties, drills that happen. And so bridges in Florida are hit from time to time by barges rendering the city impassable. I think we had a similar event that happened to us this past week. So if you would do the due diligence with the chief and all the rescue people to figure out what our standard plan is for when that happens so we can mitigate any of those type of activities going forward. People being immobilized for three hours or more and what have you was was mayhem you and I were not in the in the county at the time it's unfortunate but another chief had it under control I would just like something a little more public a little more structured. Tend to the stormwater subcommittee it's elected officials have a group of folks that are studying the stormwater with the county. And so we got to hear from the county engineer, Tad Kaybear, and we're inviting the manager and I'm gonna invite him to come speak to this group and our citizens about the county wide plan, the interaction between every city and the county and how this dovetailing is going to happen. It is a robust plan. I've seen it. I've heard it a couple of times now. We also heard from the St. John's Water River Management professional engineer and she carry, she was amazing, but way over our head in the technical aspects of how that was going to go. She has a regular version of that that's suitable for public consumption. We'll get her to come back and talk to us about that as well. So what I wanted the public to know is that this is not being handled by Newseman to be chalone. This is being handled in a regional way and we'll do no harm to our neighbors and we'll have make sure that our neighbor cities do no harm to us and that the county is shoulder to shoulder with us and yes digging out the canals yes the city is doing their part and yes the we're forcing the HOAs to do their part. So everybody is pulling in the same direction and we'll have a wave forward on this. That the public will be pleased with, I'm quite sure. Mayor Cleveland, I have a question about that. Yeah, sure. Okay, thank you. The Ellison Acres, the public speakers that we're here, they're unincorporated. Would that be something that this would help? It's part of it. Absolutely. They need to hear that. You know, the lady left as soon as she did her piece, but we need to make sure that they know that they can, they're being serviced. They're not being blown off just because they hit the city limits. Water does no city limits and traffic does no city limits and so we're using a regional approach to that for sure. Would it make a difference if that whole area, actually annexed into the city, or is it better? Great question. I'll let the smart guys, that's a tremendous question. I don't think it matters for the amount of service they're gonna get. I think the county is serious. The county gets more money than we do, generally, to do these things. Our trouble is exactly as Ms. Harris and others have said, the older parts of town have the worst infrastructure. They have the infrastructure from days gone by. And as we have changed as a climate, and as the cycles of rain have increased, and they will increase for a period of time and then they will decrease for a period of time. But there are other factors that play those are the areas that we were asking specifically for fix up money so we can fix the old infrastructure. The new stuff our planning department did a great job on making the requirements tight. The engineers have really done a nice job tightening it up. That doesn't help the old part of town. We got to fix the old part of town to the best of our ability and that's what the county guys have pledged to do. We have the Easter Seals organization in our town. They bought a ranch out here to help autistic children. They had their annual fundraiser this past week. Amazing turnout and amazing times called boots and pearls. If you get the chance to go out to that or donate to that sometime, it's worth your time. Similarly, I heard Commissioner Martin talking about Heritage Day. This building won 20 Sam's Avenue. Most of the city doesn't know. It's 100 years old and it's been everything from post office for 40 years to a rec center with a pool table in it to the Utilities Commission and now it's the historic museum. And so it's got a rich heritage. Greg Holbrooke of there tells a great story. All of his stories are good, but he has a great piece about why that building is so special. You have the opportunity. Our museum is one of a kind. It's worth going to. The ACA, you heard Maestro North tonight. He's a composer. He's president of the ACA Board. You heard him talk about the outreach to children in our community. That's gonna be powerful. We're gonna make the next generation of Mozart's and of Bernstein's right here in our town. By bringing those Grammy Award-winning guys in to inspire those kids, are you kidding me? That's gonna be great. So I'm very excited to have attended their horse and around event, their annual fundraiser. And this is shout out to Commissioner Martin. You know, Commissioner, the vice mayor goes to a lot of things. And when she's in, she's in for a pound. I watched her work that event over and over. And she's a committed lady and I have my hats off to you. Thank you Lisa for making a difference wherever you go. Lastly is just kind of an inspirational thing. I think our job up here and Mr. the manager's job, the attorney's job and the clerk's job is to build the public trust. I think it got eroded a bit tonight with the debacle with the building department and the permitting organization and we've got to fix that. We're not perfect. Mr. Copper has been here six months. He's done amazing things. But we've got to get on the road to fixing some basic things about process around here. So the public knows that we are stewards of the whole, we are property rights sensitive and yet we are neighborhood sensitive so that we get that right and we don't have that one right. And so I hope we can turn that around so that we don't erode that trust further. That's a precious thing. It's earned slowly and it evaporates quickly. Madam City Clerk, your report, ma'am, anything? No report at this time. Madam City Attorney. Just briefly, we updated the legislative update with talking about when they're going to committees. Right now the bills are circulating, so there's not a whole lot of news. Some tweaks are being made. Also from the last meeting, the letter to Senator Wright and Representative Tremont, I provided a copy to each of you. That was provided in the online portal and via regular mail. So those are done. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate that, Mr. Manager. Nothing else, sir. Thank you. Very good. Any old, by the way, is bird's yarn.