Good afternoon, this meeting of the Charlotte County Construction Industry licensing board is now called to order. This board is responsible for certain contractor licensing requirements and for conducting discipline hearings to determine the validity of alleged violations brought forth by the county. Can we all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance? Please. Can we all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please? A pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God in the middle of the blue and justice for all the offence. May we have the roll call please. Having Correll. Here. John Donnellan. Absent. Michael Melton. Here. Brian Madillo. Absent. Charles Hackbarth. Here. Christopher Knight. Absent. Diane Quilty. Here. Michael Laporta. Here. Our next meeting date will be October 3rd, 2024 at 4 p.m. in these same quarters. And I would need an approval of the June 6th minutes from a board member in the second, please. Make a motion. We've approved minutes. I motion that we make approval. All in favour say aye. Aye. All opposed. Okay. The minutes pass. Sorry about that mic. Get it down there. Oh, okay. Any, uh, Mastazio, any, uh, agenda meeting changes? There are no agenda changes. No agenda changes. Okay. And I will need anyone giving testimony this afternoon to please stand and face Michelle over here and she will swear you win. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear to the testimony you are about to give as the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? If so, please say I do. Thank you. May I have a motion to approve the consent affidavits? Motion to approve. Is there a motion to approve the consent affidavits? Oh, there are none. Oh, I'm sorry. There are none listed. That's my mistake. Okay. I guess that moves us to the discipline cases. And the first one will be Mohamed G. Khan and presented by Mr. Garcia. Mr. Garcia, good afternoon. How are you? I'm doing good. Thank you. Ken Garcia, co-compliance officer contractor licensing. Case number CIO-23-00326. Contract the name is Muhammad Khan. Contract the license is CRC1332566. This name is Home Construction Services Florida. On November 29th, 2024, I prepared a warning letter, which was mailed to above in the original and business at address 7, 8, 9, Tammy Amitreau, Port Charlotte, Florida. And 6, 7, 7, 4, start dust avenue north port. In accordance with the state, statute, and county ordinance. This warning letter contained information regarding contractor licensing violations of state statute and local ordinance. The contractor failed to complete and close the permits attached to the charging document, which had been submitted by his company. On May 2nd, 2024, a notice of violation and notice of administrative proceedings was prepared and sent certified mail to the contractor advising the failure of, of, of, failure to eliminate the violations on the above listed permits. On May 6th, 2024, this case was continued due to a scheduling conflict with the contractor. As of today's date, August 8, 2024, I conducted a final permit review finding the violations still exist. Of the 12 expired permits Forward cancelled to were renewed and six remain expired. However, I just found out through Mr. Khan that he actually renewed a an additional permit today So the total number renewed would be three and That concludes my testimony. Okay, thank you, Mr. Garcia. If you would remain seated, is Mr. Muhammad Khan available? Sir, please come up to the podium, state your name and address for the record, please, and write it on the tab there should be a sign in. Okay. Yeah, my name is Muhammad Khan I am the contractor my home address is 6774 Stardust Avenue Northport Florida 34287 the business is located at 789 Tammy Emmy Trail Port Charlotte 33953 okay Mr. Khan do the statements by Mr. Garcia accurately reflect the situation that we're looking at here. Yes, they do. Okay. Can you tell me, sir? What we will be doing with regards to the outstanding permits that are I guess an expired status? Yes, there was, like he said, the list of them that were expired. I've been working to dwindle that down. I'm down to the last five. I've already, last week actually I submitted to cancel the remaining, but for some reason they just, they only take five at a time over there and I did them in two batches. The first batch went through, which is the ones that he was mentioning and the second batch I guess is just pending. But it's I'm on top of it. I'm trying to I'm trying to get it to zero. I don't obviously want to be an upstanding contractor here. I understand. I guess my concern and my question probably for the board as well is why are you here today? How come you've let it get to this point to where the county has to get in touch with you to bring you before us? The November date that he said, I don't remember it being an issue from November, but obviously it was certified letters. This really came on my radar maybe a few months ago. So I apologize for the delay, I didn't realize that it was an issue since November. That is a long time, but the last hearing, which was in June, that's really, that was really like when I was like, wait a minute, this is obviously this is a problem and it got my attention. And I wasn't able to make it in June. I was unable to make it in June. That's why I asked for the continuance. I have been working on it since June. I didn't realize the expired permits were the number of them and also that they needed to be resolved either closed out or cancelled. It just wasn't on my radar and I apologize. That's not that's my fault. That's not an excuse. What type of work do you generally do as a registered contractor? We do. I guess my question is what are these permits relating? All these permits are for garage doors. For garage replacement of garage doors. Replacement of garage doors. Yes. Overhead garage door. Yeah, like yours car door. Yeah. they were damaged like so The one that I just got over there renewed that's a new home construction, which it just got renewed Like I said, I just came over there for that so that that's done of the one two three of the five that are remaining For are for garage doors and the one is for a fence. Okay. Which I'm just having an issue with the customer, but I will get that one taken care of. But yeah, the even going back to the original list of all the ones that were expired, they were all, it was all garage doors. And perhaps this doesn't really matter, but I'm just curious, what brand of garage door or garage overhead garage doors do you deal with? CHI, I think they're called, or I don't remember the exact brand, but my installer orders them, they're called CHI overhead doors. Okay. And then you would go in and get permits based on the wind pressures for these garage doors. Yeah, whatever the impact, yeah, rated door was approved with the I know any number and all that. Okay. Um, just stand there for a second. Are these like the ones that are being canceled? Are they, you're, they haven't been started and you're just... Right. We ended up up not not doing anything over there. The customer ended up going with another contractor and I just kind of lost track of it. So that's why I'm going through and getting them canceled. The ones that we are involved with like the fence and a couple of the other ones I am I renewed them and you can see on there I don't know if you get the list that he has in front of you or not, but a Couple of them that we did do we I renewed it and I'll and I'll close it out, but The other ones we just never did any work there There was no inspection This gentleman from the board. It's just a matter of getting final inspections on the ones that you're closing out And then the ones that I renewed yeah, I'll just get the final inspections and then but the ones that are expired I submitted for cancellation and that basically I'm just asking there's not any that are in the in transition I guess I get as my main question there none of these that are being canceled have their doors removed and are awaiting no no no no no we I never I never even did any work over there okay I have a question how long have you been licensed to business Charlotte County? About five years. Approximately five years. How many permits have you pulled for the same type of work that you have to permits open now for? The garage doors. This was a thing after Ian. So, can you repeat your question? Approximately how many permits have you pulled for what you're being called to your today for? I'm just guessing like 20. 20 and all since Hurricane Ian. For the garage doors, yeah. Yeah, I'm not talking like total permits ever under my name. I mean, I've done I've done maybe a hundred permits. Is this the first time you've come before the border received the letter? This is my first Charlie County hearing, yes. So I'm just asking for a continuency. I mean, I don't I want to be an upstanding contractor. So I live and work here and you know, I don't want any stains on my record. I mean, they're expired permits. We never did any work. I'm actively working to get get this closed out. And how long do you think it's going to take you to get back to Mr. Garcia with these expired permits? As soon as they process the applications, I submitted them last week. They should have already been done along with the rest of them, but they're not. And as soon as they hit, I will email him and say, hey, I've got them closed out. All of them are in process. Yeah, like I said, I just came for, so 411 on-clave is already renewed. So that's off the list. The other four and then defense, I'm just waiting on a survey. As soon as I get that survey, so it'll just be one. So they're all in some sort of process of getting resolved. Do we have any other questions for this gentleman. Other than the fence project or the other ones completed and ready for inspection all the work is done. On the ones that are renewed the ones that are being canceled I didn't do any work on it. Mike Maldon I move that we close the public portion of the hearing. May I get a second? Second. One of you. State your name. Now you're in quilting second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion passes, sir. Would you please remain at the podium for a few minutes? We're closing the public portion of the hearing, and we are going to discuss your case. Okay. And I guess my first question is, what does the staff recommend? I'm sorry, I should have told you that. I should have. Okay. Upon these findings, it is further ordered that Mr. Conn's new permitting permitting permittances be suspended. And the permits listed and the notice be renewed within 30 days. Per the Florida building code, Mr. Khan must obtain final inspections of all outstanding permits within six months or in accordance with the Florida building code. If Mr. Khan allows any of the permits, excuse me, allows any of the permits in the notice to expire again without the required inspections, the permitting privileges and right to work. As a contract in Shalakani shall be revoked without the need for a further administrative hearing or follow-up, notice shall be sent to the Florida construction industry licensing board notifying them or the failure to comply with the board's order. It is further ordered if Mr. Conner plod complies with the order in the time frame specified and the permits are renewed and issued final inspections, Mr. Khan shall not be required to reappear before the board to have his permitting purges reinstated. It's further ordered a copy of this case along with a copy of the board's order be forwarded to the Department of Business and Professional Regulation and Florida Construction Industry Licensing Board with the recommendation the state certified building contractors license of Mr. Khan's B Discipline up to and including suspension of Mr. Khan's contractors license by the Florida construction industry licensing board. That's the staff's recommendation. Okay, so based on that, do we have any comments from board members? Mr. Chairman, I'd just like to add that the county also does not have any objection if the board would like to continue this case to the next hearing. That's... Understood. We'll get back with you, sir. Yeah, I had the only problem I had with the kind of recommendation was the print preventing him from further permits during that two-month time frame. So it sounds like it's just a matter of a couple of days before a lot of this just drops off and just double checking here. There's a couple that are left in here. So it appears as what he's saying is accurate. So can I get a motion to approve the board's order? Yeah, Mike Mellon, I motion that we just suspend or continue. There we go. Okay, I'm okay I'm gonna start over Mike Malt and I'm motion that we continue this case and let Mr. Khan clear up this stuff and Should there be any issues for the next meeting? I guess we would just it would be continued at that point. We would address it at that point Can I get a second? Don't you acquit the second any Discussion all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed? No. The motion passes. Mr. Conn, Mr. Garcia will sit down with you and further explain exactly what is taking place here. And I would suggest in the future, don't come back this way again. Take care of your business like you're supposed to. So we don't have to go through this. Thank you, sir, and have a good day. The next case on the agenda is P. Adar Merman. It's P. Adar Merman available. And that should be presented by Mr. Signarali. Paul, did I pronounce your last name correct? I'm like two for two today. Smith and Signaraliie that's pretty good. Okay, sir, how are you? I'm good. How are you today doing good? Can you can we hear the case please? They are. All right. My name is Paul Signarelli. Surified code compliance and contract license investigator. Case CIL 200337. Contractor name is Peter Merman. Contractor license number is CGC1522444 and the business name is ModZen Construction LLC. June 24th, 2024, I prepared a notice of violation which was mailed to the above individual and business at the address of 1507 North Mangle, have Sarasota, 242 South Washington, Boulevard Unit 327, Sarasota, 4826 Las Vegas Drive, Sarasota, and 2527 Stickney Point Road, Sarasota and 2527 Stickney Point Road Sarasota. Notice appearing was prepared and sent, certified male to the contractor along with the NOV. The NOV was in reference to job abandonment. A contract was entered in February of 2022 with more than a 10% down payment and Zero work has been done at till this point You know if you contained information regarding contractor licensing violations of state And as as I said as of today's date no work has been done this ends my testimony What timing okay? on this end of my testimony. What timing? Okay, do we have any questions for this gentleman right now? Mr. Roman here too. And I would ask again for Peter Murman, for case number CIL 24-00337. Are you present this afternoon? Anywhere? Apparently he's not here, so we will move forward. And I will get a motion to close the open-form public portion of the case. I make a motion to close the public form of the case. In a second. Like not in a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed. OK. Thank you, sir. Hang on for one second. And we're going to discuss the case. We may have a question or two. Before we proceed, what would be the, what is the boards or the staff recommendation for this case? If he is not present, which it appears he's not. The staff would request that Pierre Merman's permitting privilege and right to work as a contractor and Charlotte County be revoked Further recommend that a copy of this case along with a copy of the boards order before to the department of business professional regulation and the Florida CILB with a recommendation for the FCILB order to miss for Miss merman to I'm kind of messed up on my paperwork there, sorry. That's okay, I think we get the gist of it. Thank you, sir. Can I get a, it seems pretty cut and dry to me. Board members. I just have a question of clarification. There are a couple of permits here that are still in review for this guy. Can I include in my recommendation that those, I mean, absolutely. When we say no further permits issued, it includes the ones under review. And you can revise the recommendation from the county. That is a board. Well, Mike Melton, I motion that Mr. Merman's permitting privileges be suspended until the existing case be brought into compliance. We heard the motion. Can I get a second? Oh, and that the copy of the proceedings be sent to the DVPR, the Florida Lord? Is that, I think that was part of the county's recommendation. Is there a way that we can give the homeowner who's absolutely paid already in one sentence, type of protection other than just regrouping to contract his license? I mean, I mean, I know that. I know what you're saying. Let's do the, before we, I'm sorry, Mr. I'm sorry, Mike. Before we get to that, let's table the motion and let's have a discussion. Go ahead, sir. The only thing that concerns me, we can revoke the man's license. We can spend a man's. Take a minute, come. The only thing that concerns me is that we revoke the man's license. We can suspend the man's license, but the homeowner still let the money that he already paid this guy. Okay, now I'm only been on here for a couple months and I don't have a lot of experience in this. But I don't know if we have any other recourse, is there any other procedure or any other decision that can be made to protect this homeowner any more than what we've other than just revoking the man's license? Well, to answer your question, quite honestly, no. Okay. Our function here is to respond to the complaint and to report to our decisions on the professionals that are here. And we don't have any monetary interest other than the penalties assessed by the county. Now what you would be referring to would basically be a civil matter that would be between the owner and its contractor. Correct, absolutely. Yes, and I understand all that. I just thought maybe there was something in our charter that would take a step farther for more homeowner protection. That would be a question, I guess, for our Board Attorney. Yes, Daniel P. Lewis, I'm actually for this meeting. I'm standing in Board Attorney from Mr. Barenston. Got it. Welcome. Thank you. Good media all. Hello. So my concern at this point, we really haven't had any testimony as to amounts. And so we've heard the recommendation in the case. So I don't, and especially since this is a certified general contractor who a lot of that, essentially you have, you have a very defined punitive, disciplinary functions, which essentially as the board chair has kind of advised you at. So at this point, I think going beyond that, I don't think there's even the evidence really kind of bears into that, bears that in mind. One thing that does help though is that once we make our ruling and the information goes up to the state level. It opens up some avenues for the homeowners to, there are some recovery funds and stuff that become available for them. Obviously, there's some limitations in its additional paperwork and stuff like that, but what we do here does open up some additional avenues for homeowners. Once we make our ruling and then it would actually take the state's action to suspend the license entirely, but within the county we have the ability to at least prevent him from continuing to take money from homeowners. Okay, Michael Porter. But as far as our abilities, we other than revoking it as far as we can go to help hope with the homeowner anyway. That's it. Okay. Thank you. And just for clarification, he's saying revoking would be actually be suspending. Yeah. Yeah. Only the state revoking. We're not revoking his license. It would be suspending his permitting privileges. Yes. Even though he recommends. We're not revoking his license. It would be suspending his permitting privileges Well, the recommendation is to suspend always of our jurisdiction does not allow because it's state issued license And so we as a county can't take it all away We can just suspend their ability to do it within the county's jurisdiction limits and such what we do in this case And it's up to the board of course, but a staff has made a recommendation Chair sticks to limits and so what shall we do in this case And it's up to the board of course, but staff has made a recommendation so at this time can I get a a motion Yeah to approve the staff recommendation regarding this case Yeah, I make a motion that we approve the staff recommendation Just for clarification. I think staff recommended revoking and it's actually suspending the permitting privileges. Right, so Mike Mountain, I motion that we suspend Mr. Murmans permitting privileges until the case becomes or is brought into compliance. Okay, we have a motion. Can I get a second? I'll second that, Diane Quilty. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. Okay, next on the agenda is George Papis. Case number CIL 24-00343 is Mr. Papis available this afternoon. In these quarters. Okay. Paul, can you please read the report? Yep, Paul St. Gnurley, certified code compliance contractor license investigator, KCIL 240-0343. Contract your name is George C. Pappas, contractor license number as CBC 1266311. Business name is Harper's 1980 LLC. On June 24th, 24th, I prefer no violation, which was male to the above individual and business at the address of 1158 Market Circle Unit 4 in Port Charlotte. 79-014th Street North, St. Peter's, Unit 300 St. Petersburg, and 2907 Narcissus Drive in Holiday, Florida. And according to state statute and county ordinance on June 24th, the notice hearing was prepared and sent along with the NOV by certified mail. Mr. Pappis and Harper's 1980 entered into a contract with the homeowner. Took a 50% down payment. Said the work was going to be done in eight to nine weeks. It would go all the way to April. They had to earn anything from them. A few times, hey, we're going to get the work done. And then they kept on just pushing it back, pushing it back, homeowner filing what was somebody else. We're going with financial mismanagement, job abandonment, and not putting their license on their invoice and paperwork. Okay, and the staff recommendation, please. Is recommended recommendation of the Charlotte County and Lycing Division that Mr. Papis is permitting privileges and right to work as a contract in Charlotte County be suspended further recommended that the boards order before to DBPR till he comes into compliance. Okay, thank you, sir. Seeing that he's not here, I don't think that we have to close the public portion of the meeting, but we'll, I'll ask for a motion on it anyway. Like Melton, I'm a motion that we close the public portion of the hearing. And a second. Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. All second. Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed. OK. We have a complaint and we have a recommendation from staff. Can I get a motion to approve staff recommendation or something similar? Daniel Quilty, I'll make a motion to accept staff recommendation with regard to the code case CIL 2400343 for George Pappas abandonment of job. Okay, thank you and get a second. Make my last second. Any discussion? All in favor say aye aye all opposed motion passes That moves us to old business Do we have any old business and up beliefs so So let's move right on thank you, sir. Let's move on to new business Any new business from anyone any public Any people from the public want to approach the podium. No? Okay. Um, sorry. And how about a report from the licensing manager? Oh, okay. I'm sorry, ma'am. I seen you out there. My name's Ann Oswald. You need to step, ma'am. Please state your name and your address and write. Ann Oswald, is this on? Okay, my name is Ann Oswald, OSWALT, OSWALT, my address is 3565, Ida Wild Street. 339 A.D.O. Sometimes I live in Port Troy, sometimes the point to go out of the way the mailing is. Okay. Can you hang on for one second, ma'am? Mm-hmm. And I'll even refer to Miss Tassio, but I believe at this point there's no real, this is not really a public comment forum. This is, since this is a quasi-usual hearings where there's penalties involved and it wasn't on the agenda, that's, this generally, we don't have public comments, open public comments because we're just doing the board business. Okay, I'm sorry, ma'am, this board right now is only hearing things that are on the listed on the agenda and we would. Okay, so we would- Okay. All right. Okay. All right. All right. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. on next agenda. When I see it on the I would hear the case and the board would hear the case when we see it on the agenda at this time. There's no ma'am. At this time I don't see it. Me call you. Yeah but is it on the agenda is what I'm I'm so thank you very much and we need to move on with our meeting. Thank you A Report from the licensing manager. I'm sorry about that It was not on the agenda I apologize and Sean Horton, Co-Enforcement and Licensing Manager. Yeah, if it's what's been discussed prior is if it's not involved in the evidentiary part of the case, then it's not really part of this process. Typically and I'll let the really smart people take it further. But thank you. During the last couple of months, licensing investigators have always out, always out every day or in their working on stuff and answering people's questions. We had eight citations written based on site visits. Twenty workers comp assist where they assisted workers comp and investigating some sites, twenty different sites or twenty different occasions. Had 90 front desk discussions with people that might need some help through the customer service and everything. And about 400 phone calls over the last couple of months for licensing issues. Anything for this gentleman? Up or down? I'm sorry, I wasn't at the last meeting, so I'm not really sure how it was. Anything for this gentleman? Is it up or down? I'm sorry, I wasn't at the last meeting, so I'm not really sure how much is it? It's running fairly steady. I mean, the citations kind of depends on how many people you got on site when you end up there. Oh, true. And so it just depends on what they have on site. You know, if they only have a couple of people working on a roof or something, or if they have seven people working on windows, it would be a lot different situation. Okay, anything else for this gentleman? Thank you very much. Thank you, appreciate it. All right, moving on. A report from the Assistant County Attorney? Building Department. The Building Department is next. Did I miss one? I'm sorry, report from the Assistant County Attorney. Building Department. The Building Department is next. Did I miss one? I'm sorry. Report from the Building Department. Oh, we don't want to miss you. I apologize. Oh, I got questions. Dominic Nolsey for the Record Community Development Building Official. The not much has changed with the Department since the last time I saw you guys. Um, the, uh, we, uh, issued, uh, 292 single family home permits last month. Um, still going very strong, single family home market. Permitting overall continues to be down 45th percent wherever you're, uh, looking. I'm sorry. They were down 40 to 50 from the previous previous year. Yeah, total permitting. Yeah. Most due to hurricane, all the repairs are getting done and we're getting back to more normal pre storm levels. Size that if the board had any specific questions about that? Anybody have any questions for this gentleman? I've been, I don't know if this is a slightly question for you or it might just be, is there accessory structures? I've been getting so many questions on accessory structures. Is there some resource that the county has that can help people make sure that they don't get something that's too big for their lot? Like, you know, there's recently been some additional roles that have come into play. And so I've had a couple of people come to me kind of after they've made their purchase with a little bit of regret because what they've bought is probably too big big to go on there a lot because they got little houses and stuff like that As I guess it's probably not anything you guys can help with but is there some Moners can go to to kind of help them There's definitely avenues through the department, whether probably touches multiple facets, zoning rules, building code rules, flood rules. That's partly confusion for them as homeowners. So every situation is likely unique. So I would direct anyone to reach out to us at community development and hopefully direct you based on which of those needs is need we get to the right person. Thanks Sean. I had one last time I was for you guys I had offered to create sort of a presentation for you guys to break down. I wasn't quite happy with it the way it is. It's a little confusing. I want to get the organization down right, but plan on getting that to you guys still. Right. Thank you very much. Assistant County Attorney. Nothing today. How about the aborted attorney? Again, acting board attorney. Again, Daniel P. Lewis, pleasure to meet you all. Quick one point I always use whenever there's an issue comes up. I always try to like put in some sort of guidance even if I'm just standing. Part of the reason why public comment is not really allowed in and also frowned upon in what quasi-ducial hearings is because you are sitting at a capacity that could provide that sanctions that could let me sanctions upon a party. So you are acting in effect as similar to a judge. That's why it's quasi-judicial. And the thing is ultimately that we do process, there's do process rights, competent substantial evidence requirements, as well as following the essential, observing the essential requirements law. Those are your three main topics. So what you don't wanna do is, so what problem is when you have public common is that is not, you're getting away from that due process, you're getting away from your evidence, and you're also potentially getting away from what your standards of law are. On top of it, if there, when you open up to public comments, you open up to everyone, which you can potentially be doing is, if someone has a case in front of this board, you could be hearing testimony and evidence, or potentially testimony evidence, that's outside of the actual designated hearing, which essentially is x-part to communication, which affects your ability to be fair and impartial when you actually hear the case. So, we try to limit your exposure to that so that when you actually have the case and you give the respondent a fair and impartial hearing when it's actually before you. So just a quick, quick, rules of the road for that, for that. But it's just why we do it and I tried, why I tried it, do you want to shut it down? It's because ultimately if something comes before you, I want you to be able to stay fair and appartial so it doesn't get kicked back, do you want appeal? Okay, well thank you, sir, I appreciate that. Any board members like to make a comment? I have a question for the attorney, Michael Laporte. Say one of these cases here and the neighbor of someone here say the last case lives down the street. Doesn't even know them, but heard what was going on. Heard that the man has been brought from one of his neighbors. He paid him and didn't get to work though. Since she is not on artist's person, not not on record has no relationship at all with this person. Do they have a right to speak? No. I mean, the only time there's public comment allowed is in when you're in land use matters, which obviously you don't deal with. And that's because it's provided for in state statute. So you do not, you will not be in a situation where unless the county is calling the person as a witness and they'll tell you if they're calling them as a witness. And at that point they're essentially if a prosecutor is calling a witness at trial, they're asking questions, they're developing evidence, they're they're provide to provide you with evidence, but just a citizen in this in this board you will not have that you will not have that kind of public comment because in its born-out-and-case law over the years it essentially could sway a board of other citizens into a realm where you're not observing due process, observing essential requirements of law, and listening to confidence substantial effort. Even if it's specific to a case that's coming before us. Even if specific, and I'll put it to you this way, is when you have a, say, a criminal trial, people just can't get up and make comments. I have an attorney guides them. And again, while we are not here, we are a quasi-dehacial. So we have loser rules, but we still have rules. Thank you. Yes. Anybody else? Any board comments? No comments? Can I give you a second to adjourn the meeting? Michael Porto, make a motion. We adjourn the meeting. In a second? Mike Melton, I'll second. I'm in favor say aye. Aye. Good evening, adjourn. Thanks. you