the M Workshop, Mr. Flores, anything? Just thank you to the team and the budget, Francine and Gordon for pulling that all together and commissioners for your comments and the feedbacks. We can, like I said, move forward, bring some things back to you. Thank you. I do have a comment, that's why I reminded you. I have an answer to the question that you raised and it's right off of the Property Frazier's webpage. says homeowners continue to receive the homestead exemption as well as save our homes cap, as long as they don't claim homestead exemption elsewhere on a different lot until they are while they rebuild and repair their damaged property. And there's a statutory reference. Okay, but does it go on to talk about once they've rebuilt? Does that get really set it's all on his the front page of his web page? It depends on how many the percentage of the new building that's built So it's all posted on online very good. Thank you. It's it's different if it's a repair versus a rebuild right Right. Right. Gotcha. Thank you. Commissioner Dwyck, any comments? Commissioner Truex? I have no comments. Commissioner Constance. Nothing, sir. Commissioner Dwyck. Just good workshop. Yeah. Good news on the reserves. Yeah. Thank you. Yep, absolutely. Okay. I will gable in. Welcome to the 230, Charlotte County Board of County Commissioners board workshop on transportation. Let the record show all commissioners are still present. And Mr. Elias, will you be? Pledge. Oh, do we do the pledge again? This is on the way. Okay, yes. I apologize for the stamp of the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. You can never say the pledge enough. No sir. Mr. Elias, you are recognized. Good afternoon commissioners for the record John Elias Public Works Director Director. We'll be I'll be co-presenting this with the County Engineer, Joanne Vernon. We're kind of excited about this. This is based on feedback that we've gotten from previous discussions with the board. And Emily and administration thought that this would be a perfect opportunity to kind of kick these off and we'll do this quarterly. We'll have all things transportation and we can bring back anything that we get feedback or any hot topic. We can bring it up during these discussions. So again, what we're going to be talking about today is just an overarching view of transportation. Pretty high level, but it will provide some detail and it'll also, I think hopefully, Lay out some strategies that we're employing and let the public know how we do these things and how they come to fruition. So, with that, I'm kicking off with transportation. We're going to discuss data collection and analysis, concurrency and widening projects, intersection improvements, and current projects and budgets. The first thing I would like to discuss is what we're calling roadway functional classifications. This is the process when streets and highways are grouped in the classes or systems, according to the characteristics or service they provide. The Florida Department of Transportation is who conducts this and they do it about every 10 years right after the census. The functional classifications of roadway consists of these two categories with the urban roadway and rural roadways having very similar classifications, principal arterial, minor arterial, major collector, minor collector, and local. As we get into this, we're going to provide some maps and I want to just say say that if you're the public and you're watching this, all the backup material has these maps, and they have blown up maps that are bigger so that you can key in on certain areas because we didn't want to have so many slides, but you'll see in these maps here. So arterial roadways, the arterial roadway system serves as the highest degree of through traffic movement and the largest proportion of total travel, think interstate highway systems. Arterials generally have higher design standards, larger lane widths and medias. Also, because they move that much traffic, when one gets down like it does yesterday, you see the effects on all the other arterial and collector roads throughout the county. Collector roadways are typically designed for travel at lower speeds and for shorter distances. Usually two lane roads that collect and distribute traffic to and from the arterial system, minor collectors can connect two major collector roadways and local roads. All roads below the collector system are considered local. Local roads provide the basic access between residential properties and collectors. Local roads represent the largest percentage of all roadways in terms of mileage. These are just your neighborhood roads in front of your house. This map here illustrates the classification of the roadways that we have in our county. And again, we have this blown out in the back up material, zoomed in on each portion of the roadways that we have in our county and again we have this blown out in the backup material zoomed in on each portion of the county With that I'm going to turn it over to Joanne and she's going to talk about some of the data that we collect Good afternoon Joanne Bren for the record We just wanted to kind of give you some input as to what goes into our planning process in engineering So So we do some annual data collection. We conduct traffic counts once per year on all of our collector roads. And we do this in segments because not all segments of any given roadway will have the same amount of traffic. We also do them on some if you can see we do it on 17776 those are state roads We do that just so we have a better understanding of Where the traffic's going in the county with our own data This is a map of and with the list in that Yeah, the table there, but again these are in your back background information and they're blown up so you can tell a little better Next we're going to go into roadway level service It's not the typical roadway or it's not the typical level service So I want to make sure everyone understands this is a qualitative measure that describes the operating condition of a road based on traffic volume Lane capacity and geometric design of the road. So it basically is how full the road is. Yeah, Commissioner Dory. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I need you to back up a little bit. Talk about classification. I just want to kind of spend a little time on that. Maybe the whole category. I understand what you said every 10 years, F-D-O-T looks at the system and defines whether they move from minor collector to major collector or arterial, whatever. It all kind of boils down to funding. This is where I'm heading, okay? It's the classification is so critical as to where the revenues are going to come from to take care of that particular road road. Right? Forty-something years ago, what we did annually is check all the roads that we were suspicious were going from a local road classification, which is probably somewhere under 10,000, you know, annual daily traffic. Once it hit 10,000, it jumped into our collector road status. It became a road and bird road, gas tax road. So what do we do now relative to what triggers it to go from a local street to a collector road? So I should have mentioned it. When I went and said we did collections on all of our collector roads, we do an additional count on some of those roads, exactly what you're talking about. We see a digital traffic. And we have input when FDOT does this. We have input and we have said to them, hey, let's look at this road. Here's our numbers that we're getting, should this not be a collector road. So we do provide input to DOT at the time when they're doing their process. I guess what I'm trying to head to is that, you know, looking at the revenues for gas taxes, they're not looking very good, you know. What can we do relative to changing the methodology for this? Because I think, quite honestly, we've got within neighborhoods, and I can identify certain roads in deep creek as an example, that might be maintained now under the road and bridge or gas tax funding, that might be better off being classified as a, I'm gonna call it a local collector as opposed to an FDOT collector, which would be funded then out of the MSB use system. Decree. Decree, because exactly. West, Anglewood East. Gulf Stream. We should spray sunny brooks, vinegar. That maybe you're funding now, they're gas tax roads. Some of them are. Some of gas tax. Because we're such so challenge with the revenues and gas taxes commissioners. I'm just trying to think of a way to do some shifting on that. That's all. So if I could speak to that. So to your very point, there's this little clause in the ordinance which was weird when I first got in this Basically, Joanne or I can classify a road as a road and bridge road. I just know other determination like it's not. So what's happened over the years, and we started to take a deep dive into this, I'm going to say two years before I got this job, where we were like, hey, let's look at this because the funding was coming in so flat on road and bridge roads and Gordon's made some adjustments that really helped us on that. But what was happening is we had roads that just get put into a road and bridge classification and nobody looked at it. I can sailor's way over there between 776 that comes up and that's a road and bridge road. And it's just kind of weird but it does connect to two major roads. Yeah, there was some logic to it, but what we, what when we started to go down this route at the time, the fund was so restricted, that our concern was that we were going to add more to the inventory to an inventory and possibly take some off, but the reality is we didn't have the funding, it was so flat that it wouldn't have made sense to do that. So are you in agreement though that if in fact we can look at classification on some of these roads that are currently classified as collector roads, road and bridge roads, gas tax roads, but might be able to be shifted into a local collector category as opposed to an FDOT classification. I don't know if you could do that. We're in complete agreement on this. Take them off that load for gas taxes. Yes, for sure. But further to your point, and we've had this discussion previously, where we look at roads like, just if you live in Port Charlotte, you got Dorchester, Kensington, Beacon, all those roads, Orlando. What'sada. Yeah, Quasada. All those roads are collectors, but in theory, they're not necessarily, but we're taking counsel on them in monitoring. But what I would call a local collector, that's what we'd say. Funded by an MSPU possibly as opposed to Chris. Yes, yes. But they're currently maintained by Gasta. some of Mark. Okay. Anyways, sorry commissioners just that's where I'm heading though is there's a revenue problem with the road bridge, right? And so can we solve that somehow roadway classification? Well, and again Gordon with that shift to take some of the stuff that we were charging out of that and he's made several adjustments that help us with that but I still don't think that it's going to end up having what we can add a bunch of roads under the road bridge classifications. That's what I was feeling. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To the revenue side, there is discussion in Washington about figuring out a way to tax electric vehicles where we don't get the gas tax now. So I don't think it's going to happen this year, but we should keep our eye on that language to see what it says to require. You know, well, we have to have in place to be able to collect that. What are the requirements going to be? Because there may be something totally different that maybe we need more collector roads or maybe we, I don't know. The interesting thing is it relates to electric vehicles. You're seeing a big shift in FGOD design standards. They're having to reevaluate guard rail systems. They're much heavier and lower and they sweep right through guard rails with it. We're historically stopping cars. So they're having to look at all those type of things. Bridges too. Bridges too. We'll be having two guard rails.. Commissioner Doich. You guys can be more proactive in setting your definitions and we've done that. And one of the examples I think of was Cornelius. Cornelius was becoming like a local collector because we had trucks take on a little bit of a shortcut going from 776 to 41 or from 41 to 776. And then we changed that in response to the neighbors. We changed that and we put no more trucks. Now does that change the definition of the road or is that, you know, that could be part of our plan until the area builds out heavily and then the traffic is going to automatically increase. But how do you how do you approach that pragmatically? So I think that's what this the beauty of what these presentations are going to do. We're going to kind of talk about all that on high level and then we can get into the weeds in future topics about like hey how we're going to address this. So you take the example you gave, Cornelius was one, Biscayne Chamberlain, Zemel, all those roads over time become kind of like major roads to get you through areas. So all that we have to look at. And Commissioner Dordi had brought this up at a previous meeting when this, and the challenge we have, the huge challenge we have besides the funding, which we kind of touch on, is that our whole area, as you can see in this map, is platted and laid out. Now, GD did think of areas where they have like harbor Boulevard, where you got those 100 foot, 120 foot right-aways, Sand Hill, places like that, where the premise was probably like, hey, this is gonna be something that we can expand in the future. But the vast majority of the county is a local road and unless you're going in to buy swathes of houses to expand a road, that's the challenge we're impacted by right now. But you guys, you have to be on the top of your game because things are going to change and a major road project and we know this whether we're looking looking at Edgewater, whether it look harbor, be aware of that, you know, major road changes take a lot of years. Right now, we should be looking on the drawing board at widening Harbour Boulevard from 41, not just to Edgewater all the way to the beach complex, because in what three, four, five years, the beach complex is going to be rebuilt and borrowing another major hurricane. It's going to be up and running and with a new pool and with a new center that the community is going to be using. And we can straighten out a few curves. But if we want to see that happen in 10 years, we have to start it now. So you sort of need a crystal ball. And I'll tell you, and I think I may have said this while at an MPO meeting, not here. The access road on 41 is not going to be there in 25 years. We all know that. At some point, that's going to be gone. Put the water's got a problem. What happens on the traffic? It's over the bridge. we've talked about some things for that too. But so I don't know how you keep ahead of it other than traffic counts and looking at new developments. So Commissioner, to first off respond, we are definitely on our game. We're going to present that in this presentation and we're going to kind of walk through why, how we plan it, what steps we take in the plan, and then the challenge you all have is balancing the funding of 200, 300 million dollars with the road projects versus fire stations, parks, and utility stuff. So that's literally what this presentation will walk through how we plan. We're not putting a toll booth on one of the roads. It's also in place. Do we cover this one? Yeah, good. OK, so back to roadway level service. So again, the roadway level service really boils down to how full the road is. And the level service of a facility of a roadway is designated with the letter of A to F, with A representing the best and F being the worst. This is a national standard, ironically, DOT really only for the most part does C and D and I'll explain that in a bit. Charlotte County adopted the level service D and staff uses the F DOT methods to determine the level service. We do this for both the current level service and for projecting for a failure level service roadway segments. This, I know this is hard to read and I apologize again. This is a list of all the roads where we collect the data. This is in your packet. I just want to blow it up enough to maybe be able to see. So we collect the raw data on all these road segments, and then there's a fun calculation that you do to get the average annual daily trip. And then from there, there's another calculation you do to get the peak hour, and that's what we go by. And then from the peak hour of every segment, you look and see what you get for the level of service C and level of service D. And you can determine where you are in your cycle. Here we also give a percentage of capacity for each roadway of that peak hour. Now because DOT basically only does level of service C&D, most of our roadways are actually better than C, but if you look, they say level C. That doesn't make sense. So they're basically saying, if it's better than C, you're in good shape. Why even be concerned about it. So we did want to mention that roadways may temporarily fall below a doctor-level service. Traffic patterns could change you to various reasons. A good example is when we did edge water, the roadway was closed for several years. That traffic had to go somewhere else. And during that time, midway had a lot more traffic than it currently sees now. Again, segments of roadways can fall below the level service. They're not all the same, which is why we do segments. And that's an example of edge water completely. We've done them in phases. It's not all done at once. And the last thing is just because a roadway falls below a doctor-level service immediately, what doesn't mean we have to take action. It's a a planning tool and we don't just look at that completely. We kind of look at that over a couple of years to make sure there was nothing else going on at the time that maybe we collected the data and we plan accordingly. Why do we look at projected roadway of services? So how we do this is projections are done based on the current level service and then a calculation with the projection factor. The projection factor is different based on the area where the roadway is. For example right now burnt store road we all know there's a bunch of developments going there so that projection factors way higher than in other areas of the county. We evaluate the projected level service yearly to make sure that as markets change, if you remember at one point, Brentsore Road was going to fail a long time ago and then the market, you know, market crashed that, you know, expanded the life of the roadway further. So we keep looking at it to make sure. When we do these projected levels levels of service this is how we get the information to put on our CNA so that goes on the CNA based on projections and then we still keep an eye on it keep an eye on it and then as we get closer and we have a better understanding then it gets on our CIP. So currently Charlotte County has two roadway segments of that ball below the current the adopted level service. It's King's Highway between Sandhill and the Soto County Line and Sandhill between King's Highway and Deep Creek and we currently have projects where they are under design and we'll go to construction on these. We also have seven roadways segments that are projected to fail in in the next years It's edgewater between midway and Collinswood edgewater between Collins with 776 Harborview Phase one and phase two In 2030 burnt sore road is projected to fail. This is when we bring on the east-west connector That will alleviate the traffic on Brents Road. But then it will again fail in 2040, and that's only six lane it. And Taylor Road is projected to fail in 2034. So before we move on to intersection improvements just to touch on this. So what you see by the data that we collect, we are looking at all those things to your point commissioner, Deutsche, and we're looking at projections and adding that into the mix. Something that commissioner Taseo had said previously, and I'm not trying to be like, I just want to manage the public's expectation here, is that if you've lived here any amount of time, I work for the county for 36 years, lived here since 83. It's never going to be like it was in the 80s. It's never gonna be like it's in the 90s. And yesterday is a prime example. When there's an accident on the interstate and all that traffic gets pushed, our people are scrambling to get signal timings open so that it prioritizes veterans in 41 in those areas. But traffic is worse than it's ever been and it's only to get more congestion as we move forward. So that's why it's important that we're taking the time to look at this data and build these roadways ahead of it. And I say ahead of it, probably incorrectly, because that's another thing I want to touch on. Commissioner that you had mentioned that we need to be thinking ahead, we're definitely thinking ahead. But if we think too far ahead, the challenge that we have as an agency and specifically with us is, we don't wanna try to build a road ahead of development. That seems like somebody would be like, hey, the reality is you're putting the burden on the people that live here to build the road, instead of having the development that's gonna impact it, pay for those things. So it's a balance and then further you're going to see further in the presentation. The other element that comes into play here is funding. You just talk, the roads we're talking about just on this page right here, well probably in excess of $300 million. So there's significant funding challenges that come with this. And again, striking the balance of when it's, when we can do it versus how we're funding it and making the development that's impacting it, do impact these pay for stuff. The other thing that I wanna just come back and stress on one more time is again, with the way that we're laid out. And I always use this example where my daughter lives in North Carolina, it has the same population explosion that we're experiencing here, but there's nothing platted. So plan developments come in, and they build these major corridors between everything, shopping centers and all that. We're startled with the development, you mentioned it in the last presentation. We have all these undeveloped lots, and as they infill, unless we're buying up those lots and just planning major roads to them, we can't put roads where there's already planned houses unless we're planning on buying houses. So that is another challenge that we face as a community with the way this community was planted. So I just wanted to stress that. You had a question for you, John. A lot of these things were addressing. Which is the good's in the hopper. I mean, we're pulling together funding sources. This was before my time, but Bernstore Road, the six-leaning. I'm gonna guess that that's coming out of the existing median and you've already provided for stormwater. So Commissioner, to your point, that's what we wanted to illustrate with these slides is the roads that are in failure. We've already got projects planned for. The roads that are in eminent failure, we've got projects that are already in queue and to your point when we built burnt store, we literally designed it so that the lanes can be built within and the stormwater is already addressed and it can just be added to the existing template. You know, talk about saving tens of millions of dollars. That's huge. That's good to hear. Thank you, sir. Okay, so next, the other thing that we review and plan for intersection improvements. So, intersections are studied for a variety of reasons. And the studies that I'm talking about are studies that we do based on regular traffic or the inflow, not the same studies that this developments do as they come in and have to provide improvements based on their own development impacts. So why do we do this? We do this when we see traffic volumes increase and crash volumes increase or we get complaints from citizens. What goes into it? We collect some data. We do traffic counts, turning motions, crashes, how many and what type and pedestrian and bicycle movements. And then we analyze the data. We use standard transportation engineering practices and FDOT guidelines. And out of that, we'll come recommendations. Some of the recommendations may be nothing is needed at the time or recommendations of whatever might come out of it. I also did want to mention that staff is looking into AI software to help with this planning and alternatives. It's come a long way. We're not sure it's completely there yet, but we'd like everything where the data's all inputted. It's all in one place, and they spit out some recommendations that we can look into and see if it's viable. Just as an example, though, some of the software that we're already utilizing is in the day when you had a person analyzing an intersection, it was a physical person sitting there and taking counts and turn movements and what types of vehicles. vehicles. We have software now in cameras that analyze all that, give you pedestrian movements, what's happening, and it spits that into a category. The stuff we're talking about is for future, is even stuff like intersections that are doing real-time micro adjustments to stuff. And again, the technology's there, but we don't wanna be the cutting edge of it, we wanna make sure that it works for us and that we're managing it appropriately. Can I make a guess? Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I agree. I'm never a bleeding edge person but I am a leading edge person and I got to tell you this is the one area where I believe we need to be leaning in. We really do because I'm a victim of bad traffic like timing of just I see problems all the time. I don't like to bother you. When I do, I always tell Hector I'm bothering John again. But I just think it's important, the five of us drive around and your staff drives around. When you start seeing things, reporting back, we have to be the eyes and ears. But there's got to be a better way. And five years ago, or more, because when we were doing M-Cores, which went nowhere, we did have a lot of really good people weighing in on the technology and stuff that they were doing back then. I mean, it absolutely now what's going on, that pales in comparison to what is now available that we've gotten into this AI stuff. And we've seen all kinds of interesting things talk about pedestrians and pedestrian tracking and vehicle tracking and all the stuff that can be done on the law enforcement side. So it's so sophisticated now that I really think, again, we should be leaning in to try to figure out, especially for hot spots. You know, we're talking about Sand Hill, the Kings Highway and 75 in those areas up there. A better job has to be done. I mean, I guess the volumes are so high, you can just, it's certain points just do timing because you're never going to have a dearth of vehicles. But there's other things on 41 where we're doing those timing changes where we hit night hours, where I just think we could be doing a better job with sensors showing and anticipating and setting it up so that there are, you know, movements of cars coming through where you don't allow the side car to trip just yet on demand until the bulk of cars comes through. And then you can trip a whole bunch of them because there's no cars coming. Let all that, you know, so we're not doing that. We're not taking advantage of it. And I just think that that's something that would improve quality of life. Commissioner, I couldn't agree more. Some of the challenges there are making sure that FDOTs onboard with the program because a lot of those intersections you're talking about are FDOT controlled through. The other element to that is, I was at my office over here around the corner just for pre-agenda and I had to get over here and I'm like, I should have plenty of time. Got to submit our sections and there's a person sit between both lanes it's not sure where they're gonna go and just went through a cycle of lights waiting to figure out where he was gonna go while I'm in the back losing my mind. So there's always gonna be the element that the human factors can put a wrench in things, pedestrian movements, talking with chief about emergency priority vehicles. That can set things up, but I couldn't agree more. The other challenge that we've had that just seems like we keep getting beat down is hurricanes require all new equipment and then making sure that the equipment, when we do get this new technology, is in the case- The durable Is the equipment we have where if there is a power surge, it's ugly, the lights go in flash, but they automatically reset themselves, and with the new technology, a lot of it's more sensitive, so we wanna make sure that that stuff works appropriately. Sorry good. But we couldn't agree with you more. I appreciate it. So I mean, if you can, you know, as options come forward, sort of stay in touch with us, and even I may bring this up on the 31st at the MPO meeting, because I think to your point, FDOT needs to be aware that we're ready to be sort of a little more on the leading edge here, just if it's out there, we don't mind being the test case if they want to try some stuff out, so thank you. Thank you. Mr. Duich. Thank you. Just real quick, I think we have to keep on F dot to keep up the signification. It should be changed, for example, on 41 for weekends. And you know the three or four bad locations we keep talking about and they back up. And you know, and I can mention them, but you've heard a lot of the rest in Ellison and 41, or whether it's Cochrane or 776 in Flamingo. I mean, that light's like two and a half minutes. When you make the turn in Flamingo straight, it's red. It's going to still be red, but it's right down the road, you know. But I think we have to keep after them. And the other question I have, it's a challenge tonight. I wonder how you could do this also by signification perhaps. Do we make any adjustments in your planning for the fact that we have intensity of traffic on our roads varies, for example? It's pretty not bad drive around here between the end of May and the end of August, driving's pretty not really bad at all. Do we try to consider that to make any adjustments in what we do for the snow bird traffic? In short, of course we do, for sure. The other thing I would just like to touch on is the one you bring up was like Flamingo. Again, contingent upon where you're coming from, as you're approaching 776, you're like, I've waited two and a half minutes for this light. If you're on 776, you're wanting the movement on 776 to be the priority over the singular road off Flamingo coming off of it. So it's striking that balance to get traffic moving, but to not hold traffic up on the major quarter. But the light at Cochran with traffic heading west controls that. And if somehow they could talk to each other when there is, of course, I've sat there many times and there's like no traffic and the light's still red, the same as Farris Nelson. And it's when the schools get out, for example, you know, they have the Christian school up at Farr and Quisata. So, well, and I've been there on occasion, you know, and this 10, 15 cause waiting to get on to 41, and you look and see maybe one to two cause are going by on 41. And it's priceless, you know, with the intelligence we have now. We can gather that material. And last thing, you know, we talk about our automated cause. We've been talking about this for a while, maybe not moving as quickly as we think is. How is that? How do you work that in future planning? And how do you deal with that when we really don't know what's happening? We're not diving into the automated cars in this presentation, but I will say that you'd be surprised the data that we collect, that we get from cars, that the cars are already talking with the equipment that we have so that that stuff is already built in the cars right now and it'll only get more advanced as time goes by. Well speaking of 776 the turn lanes can't get installed fast enough at the stadium. It is a mess during game time and on another note, if I'm observing what I think I'm observing, we're going to have new signalizations, well at least the state will to coordinate in front of Sunseeker. I saw one foundation for a mass-darm go in in front of Sunseeker. They're working on the other one today across the street. So that's going to come online very shortly. And if you all remember, we have a study that we're going to be doing between King's Highway and the Bridge, and it'll probably be set coming up here in the next couple of months. He'll be underway. No, thanks, sir. Okay, so this is just an example of a map. This was actually done as part of the MPO initiative that they got a grant for a safe, for all grant. And included in your packet, it wasn't just automobiles, there was one for motorcycles, pedestrians, and bicycles, but as much as I hate this map, it also is a good show and a visual of where we can see where the issues are and helps us with our data collection. So how do we prioritize intersection improvements? We do that by traffic volumes. We want to move traffic as much as possible, crash data. We want to keep people as safe as possible. Of course, we have to look at the funding. And then we'll also take into account policy changes and FDOT design standards changes. That just means that DOT obviously sometimes they change their design standards and that may change what we do to an intersection. but also they may have policy changes on how they interpret some of the data and that helps us in our process. This is our priority list for intersection improvements that is currently in our CIP so it is for the next six years. And then I have one more thing to talk about before I handed over to Gordon for the budget. I'll go back to that slide. I thought on the priority list we had veterans at Norman Turnling. We also had an R cut. That may not be in the next six years. I'll double check on that. Okay. I thought that was the third. It may just be out of the, okay. I will double check on the first one. Yeah, I know, but this will be an art cut too. I'll double check on that. That's what I was questioning, yeah. Thank you. If I can before we get into the, I'll let go, join touch on this, But the other thing I want to touch on with intersections. We hear the public when they're saying hey, we need an intersection here. I'll let go join touch on this, but the other thing I want to touch on with intersections, we hear the public when they're saying, hey, we need an intersection here. The thing that we want to impress upon folks, we know that you all know it, but just, you hear this all the time. How many people are going to have to get injured before we build an intersection? We're looking way ahead at intersections and we don't base it on how many people are getting hurt. realities if you look at that heat map people get hurt at signalized intersections every day. So that's another thing that we want people to understand that they're like against the roundabouts, for example. Roundabouts whether you like them or hate them, the data supports that you don't have the T-bone collisions that are much higher injury rates, their glancing blows. So a lot, the diverging diamond intersections that you're seeing that freak people out, the reality is the data supports that. It moves traffic and it makes accidents less critical. Commissioner Gossens. Thank you. One thing I think needs to be on here is Toledo Blade at 41. And going southbound. We really need to have, I mean, I guess I haven't gotten caught there yet, but it seems like that traffic backs up considerably when people are going left turn. And that single arrow is not going to be enough in the very near future. And what the problem is is to take over real estate, you're going to have to cannibalize that median with those big trees in there. But we're going to have to do something because we certainly have plenty of accepting lane way to put two turn lanes. And I think that's got to be in the calculus and it really should be something that we're. I believe that's being looked at currently. So we are analyzing that now. I mean, I know Toledo Blades going to get improved four lanes finally, but that northern side is not going to be part of the requirement of the developer. And it needs to be done independently because that that northern portion of the geometry for that intersection isn't really going to have any bearing on what's happening to the south. And most of the southern portion coming up into 41 seems to already be fairly correct. I have to go back and look at it again, but it seems like there's plenty of capacity to get out of there once the lanes are set to be to be four-laneed you know at that area there. I'm eager to agree with you But I want to confirm we're talking about the same place to little blade if you're coming out of north port coming on to 41 That singular lane that stacks way. Yes, sir That's way better. There's just no way there's gonna be enough time as well. Yeah, yeah It it definitely it's a nice long lane But and it'll stack but you're gonna wait for signals and we can probably be more efficient in moving those cars They're because it's plenty to accept and In a three lane roadway. Thank you. Speaking of Toledo Blade on the portion that the developers responsible for. Is he using what standards is he using and since that's a county road, do we get input to say we want to see double lanes here, we want to see this? We've met with the previous setup. We kind of had a rough plan set up and we work with you. We're working, yes, we're working with them. We can say and we can require what their development and what current standards are. So and I don't know what that is, but I can definitely, I can't remember off the top of but I can definitely I want to make sure we take a real close look at that because now's the time to do it not have something go in and we realize oh geez we should have just made these adjustments to the geometry. 100% okay. Okay. So that come back to the board. What? I'm sorry. The final road design for Toledo Blade? No, it typically does. It's not the way it's being done. Okay. Well, if you can, if the board doesn't object, I mean, I'd like to at least through a one-on-one session. Once that, you're working on that. I want to see what's being proposed. So I can at least comment to staff on any feedback. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. OK. So we have had some interest in several developers out in the burnt store area where they are considering building the road, the East West connector, for impact fee credits. If we were to consider this, we would need to start the design as soon as possible. That would be to meet their timelines right now. There in some of them are a little further long than others, but some of them are just starting design. Some of them are starting construction, but in order for them to be at the same time when they're out there doing construction we would need to start design as soon as possible. We've considered this multiple ways. We think it would be beneficial to the county because they could do it faster, cheaper than we can and they would just use their impact fee credits which we would be using to build the road later. But we also looked at as what if it didn't work out, what if we did this and we moved up the design and then it didn't work out. We feel that the only thing we'd be out is moving those design costs up because we would have to start design in two years anyway in order to move through this process. and we could use the design and just build it in 30 if that doesn't work. So we would like you to consider moving up the design costs of the East West connector and let us start on that design now. Do we have impact fee credit coordinator? Yeah coordinator. Yeah, coordinator. Typically when you issue impact fee credits or somebody at the county level who would coordinate if somebody, if they wanted to sell those to another party at some point, they come in and somebody is keeping track of the credits and it's coordinated with them. I'm not sure if we have that, but that would be done in, there would be agreements that would be done. We're just in the very preliminary stages of this. We just wanted to kind of get it started and then we could work through the process with them and that would all become for the board. Yeah, I don't know if we can give direction today but I would certainly support looking at impact fee credits for the road. I have some experience with that down in Lee County. It's a very successful program and it really expedited a lot of jobs and to your point at a great savings to the county and you're letting the private sector handle it and what's in it for us will maybe there's some design costs but also just managing the impact fee credits. Commissioner Dordy, I'm Nick Eusser. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Why not do a developer's agreement that includes them doing the design permitting and construction? We can ask them when we had talked about it before their preference was that we designed it. Sure it would be their preference but what I'm saying is we can always ask. I have seen that done years and years ago. It is very successful Mr. Chairman. It's pipe lining the dollars to something we need done, especially with the East West connector being something that's not that far down the road, so to speak. So I think it's well worth it. I mean, I'd be interested if they're interested in doing the whole package. Let me put it that way. Perfect. Thank you. Yeah, I would say nobody's in the QCEL jump. And again, most developers look at it number one. an expedited way to bring value to their property. Precisely. And get their projects on online quicker. So it's definitely incentive for them to move on this stuff and that's my experience with it. That's why they look for these credits because they'll jump on it and bring instant value to their property. So it's a win-win. Mr. Chair, if I get out, I just got a reminder, we do have an impact fee administrator in community development so they track credits. So that ain't it. Okay, thank you. Great. Sounds like we have some of the infrastructure in place. No pun intended. That's something. So this will be. Good afternoon, commissioners, record their visit. I'm just bringing back slides you've actually already seen. Gordon went through these with you at a workshop back in November. What we did is we updated the cost based on the updated amounts that were added through the CNA process. The indices? Yes. Yeah. updated amounts that were added through the CNA process. So indices that we're... Yes, yeah, that's the other thing. So when we were looking back at the slides, they, not all of them that we had presented last time had the correct inflationary amounts, including the out year. So this is all updated. This should match what you saw back in February at the CNA workshop. And we just really wanted to highlight again. You guys had some great discussion in November around this and the shortfall that we have here. The shortfall's grown. So I'll just get to you've got your expenses here for Edgewater Harborview and the East West connector. And then you've got the revenues here. And so when you line up, particularly edge water and harbor view, here's where it's showing you. The shortfall has grown from, I think it was 60 million at the time that we looked at it before now. And now it's up to 90 million. So we wanted to provide you that update. Additionally, we wanted to let you know, hilltop securities is gonna work on some strategies, some financing strategies, and they're actually gonna bring some suggestions back to the Finance Committee meeting. That's scheduled for March 26th. And talk about, what might be some options? Bonding's probably not gonna be the best, but maybe some other options that won't be so restrictive on us. where we might be some options. Bonding is probably not going to be the best, but maybe some other options that won't be so restrictive on us. Where we might be able to take those impact fee revenues that we're seeing out in the out years here and use that as a funding source to repay some kind of debt instrument. So just wanted to give you update on that, show you where we're at, where it stands now, the shortfall, and let you know that we've got our financial consultants working on it now to bring back some options at that finance committee meeting. Any questions? That's all I have. You had one more slide, South County. Oh, yeah. Okay. So this just shows where we are at with that East West connector, which I think this is the project that they were referring to so we got a shortfall here as well But maybe that impact the credit might be a good option for that Thank you, sir All right, no questions. Okay, okay All right, well that brings us through comments. It's like deja vu all over again, Mr. Flores. None at this time, thank you. This is no, I don't have anything, thank you. I'll start to my right, Commissioner Dory. All sets are of thank you. Commissioner Constance. Well, do we want to talk about Washington or you want to wait till Tuesday? Tuesday, okay. And when is the next finance committee meeting? March, March 26th. Wednesday, March 26th. I think it's at like 8 a.m. 9 a.m. Give me one second. I'll tell you exactly. 8 a.m. Per fee 106. Thank you very much. Thanks, sir. We should do it. Missionary Deutsch. And I have nothing we've completed our agenda gentleman. This meeting is adjourned.