I'm a Commissioner of Special Meeting Policy Discussion for May 6th, 2025 at 130 p.m. Now, our first item is approval of the agenda. Move approval of the agenda. Second. Motion of the second. Those who pay with a motion vote by the sound of I. I am the full same time. Motion carries. First item is the Allatua County Living Spaces and Friving Places Program. This is Tuck. Oh, okay. Did you want some? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All right. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. Commissioners, I'm Rollston, Riyodika, with community support services and so today we're here to talk about the Elatria County living spaces and thriving places program Thanks for staff for rebranding the program used to be the affordable home development program So I feel like we should trademark living spaces and thriving places before HTTP steals it We're here to talk about potential uses of the wild spaces and public places, Sirtax for housing. And so, of course, our mission is to create, preserve, and retain affordable housing and workforce housing. And so with this program, the wild spacesPaces Public Places Surtax Revenue, we approximately have about $54 million for 10 years. And really that's used to increase our housing stock to provide gap financing for developers capital stock, whether it be for multifamily housing single-family housing. So we have an application process that we've had on our website for developers to apply for the funding that can be used, like I said, for single-family home ownership or multi-family rental development, and also for community land trust or any type of shared equity model. And so I know the presentation looks very lengthy so just please bear with me. We do have some excerpts from the county attorney's memo on the surtax dollars and then we also have some data available from the Schimmerg Center, and so we do have Anne Ray here as well. So I will be inviting them to speak a little bit later. In terms of housing updates, I just want to give a couple updates. I know you've heard this many times, maybe in other meetings or different reports, but just really quickly, I want to provide some other updates. And so, Elastro County was selected as part of the first cohort for Florida Housing Coalition on how the public lands are used for affordable housing developments. So we're currently in that program. We got a couple weeks left. And so we're looking at our current conveyance policy of how we use the sheet of properties and affordable housing inventory. Just see how we can improve on how we can develop that land. And of course, the Lattua County Living Spaces and Thurling Places Program, we did marketing, sent it out to over a hundred developers including the local Chamber of Commerce, and also developers that work through our growth management department. And so far, we've received three applications. We've had a lot of conversations through the months, a lot of interesting ideas from developers, from RV parks and student housing, but the three applications that we actually received are for senior housing and affordable housing. None that actually speak to the workforce housing need, but we'll get into that a little bit later. So on this slide, you'll see the actual applications received from Bain Development, NewStar Development, partnering with Gainesville Housing Authority, and then also from J&E properties. And so they've all approached us, they've all approached Elatro County in hopes of getting funding as part of the get finesse needed for development. Some of them are new construction, some of them are preservation or rehab. And really, as you all know, this would just be a slither of the development pie, right? So the small piece of the pie, in terms of development costs, most of them are, have expressed interest in other funding, obviously with Florida housing, targeting sale funding, and other sources of money at the state and federal levels. All right, so what we have established as staff as an application review process is like I said we have an open application that's available. We did provide these applications to our Foral behalf advisory committee last month just forory review. Staff has also done their due diligence and kind of threshold review to see if it meets the criteria of the CERTECs funding in the program. And so eventually, hopefully after this meeting we'll get a little bit more direction before we bring these applications to the back to the board for final approval. We also have a, like I mentioned before, the conveyance program where nonprofits and some citizens have requested these properties that have been deemed for affordable housing, whether it be the county acquired through its treatment, through other processes. And so that's the current status of that program. All right, so as I mentioned before, the floor housing coalition cohort program, staff is working with this program to review that conveyance program. And then so we also have the Lacero County Housing Finance Authority, the Multifamily Workings Revenue Bond Program. As you all know, Harbor Cove deal did close and so the rehab about 100 units is underway. or recently we have Willing Park Phase Two and Carver Gardens. Those deals are gonna be closed, I believe this month or by next month. Really? And so that again, that is bond money through the housing finance authority. I'm just gonna record this. Alright, so we do have the former Motel projects also for permanent supportive housing. And so for budget in, as you all know, we received a grant through Florida Commerce. And so we've had active discussions with them about applying for additional funding because of the construction and shortfalls. And so we did submit the request for additional 400,000 and also an extension, a time extension that actually they that the state recommended. Because currently the contract ends September 30th. And so the request is to have a timing extension through March of 2026. And also the construction contracts were approved by the board in March for both Scottish and for budget in. And lastly but not least for projects, we do have a legacy project that went through procurement. We did have the evaluation meeting just the other week. And so currently, procurement is undergoing negotiations with the selected vendor. So for the Community Development and block grant, we did apply in the Federal Fiscal Year at 23 cycle to the state. And so we were awarded 750,000 for housing rehab. We were still waiting on the grant agreement from the state. That should be coming any day and any week now. But also the board did allow us to prepare an application for this current cycle. And so what staff is preparing, or has prepared, is an application for housing rehab again. But also this time it will be for renovations that Sunrise in. And so we're going to request for 2.4 million from Florida Commerce. We did have that first public caring last month and the second public caring scheduled for next Tuesday to review the draft application and receive any further community input. And that application is due to the state on May 16th. All right, so just a couple of definitions from our housing plan. Just so we're all aware, we're talking about the same thing. So of course, the standard definition of affordable housing, basically a household not spending more than 30% of gross income on housing costs, including utilities. And so really that's where the 30% threshold comes in and really just understanding that affordability is relative and so that's why what's affordable for one house will may not be affordable to another based on their income level right. She utilities include internet these days. Typically yes. It does. So beyond the 30%. So I think there's, that's been the industry standard. That's how how does define the four-lousing. But I think practitioners will know really that number should be a lot higher, maybe in 40% or if we would look at net income as opposed to gross income. But I think the important takeaway is just really understanding our local population and what's considered affordable for those that need a four-way and workforce housing. All right, so speaking of workforce housing, this is really what the board has identified as the need in our community and what the third tax dollars could be used for. And so what we have it defined as in our housing plan is 30% to 120% of area median income, which is a much broader range, which could encapsulate more of those households that need deeply subsidized units. And then I just put here just the general definition is a little bit of a stricter, so it's generally 460% up to 120% of our remaining income. I don't have the chart with me HUD did just publish the annual income limits. I thought it was like 75,000. Oh. Oh, for two people. Yeah, yeah. Or which at what's level? Well, 620% of area median income. And I thought area median income for two people was like 75,000. Yes, the chart. So I think the question is, what's the area median income now? If I remember correctly and some of these fact check, I think the area median income right now is like 87,000. 87,000 for? Yeah, I don't know. I jumped considerably from last year if I'm mistaken. If last year was like 70. A HUD median family income 2025 from the US Department of Housing and Urban Development says 106 700 that's a median family income. For a 406 family of 287 So we're looking at 60 to 120 percent of that number 60 percent for family for 62,400 120 percent as a hundred and 24 800 This is on the Florida housing data cream. It's on it's in here on page 23 It's in the other presentation I'm going to go back to the room. Okay. Got it. Do it, see you at some point. Sorry, Ross, I'm going ahead. Sorry. Oh, it. Okay. So for the purposes of defining workforce housing, I just want to note in our ship, local housing assistance plan, we do define essential services personnel as the state requires us to. And so in that plan, we have it as educators, police and fire personnel, armed forces, health care, school district employees, college university employees, skilled building trades, other government, and public and private prison service workers. So that's the current definition of a central service personnel in our ship local housing system. And so really, how does workforce housing get built? It requires a lot of the tools in the toolbox, if you will. So of course, inclusionary zoning is one of those tools, also tax incentives, and other local programs like the CERTX program. And of course, the importance of that is ensuring that essential workers can afford to live near their jobs to help maintain the stability of local economies. All right, so the next few slides really is from the memo that County Attorney has prepared for the infrastructure sales tax. And so if you have any questions on this part. I have a question that a developer brought up to me, which was, is one of the options that could happen with the funding would be to not spend the money at all and use it as a, it's like an endowment fund for housing in the future. And instead use the money to provide very low interest loans instead as a backing. And I told him that I did not think we could function as a bank, and that might be considered working as a bank. But I think that there's some value in not doing that with all the money, but to have an endowment and provide low interest, very low interest loans might be would allow certain people to have a lot more bank power than they would now with the interest rates as they are. Is that something that was looked into at all? So, Mr. Chair, I have not looked into that myself. There is under the economic development powers of the county statute. There is a piece in there that talks about incentives. I don't know if this would fall under incentives. I would think that, you know, reimbursement for inclusionary housing is the kind of thing that would fall under incentives. I promised I would ask, so I was curious. We can look into it. Okay. I thought it was an interesting idea. I think this, the, the memo that the attorney gave us and sort of this next stuff is a lot of what the sort of conversations have been in AHAC. I think one of the challenges that we've been having is this is a limited pot of money. It's a fixed pot of money and there's a million Well, there's a million there's a number of ways it could be spent and there was a first there was this sort of like dialogue of like oh, we can only spend it on land That's only true of affordable housing, right? So that's one bucket But under this under this economic development bucket it gives us a lot more flexibility as long as we're focused on workforce housing and things that are Incense for economic development and we have a lot more flexibility as long as we're focused on workforce housing and things that are incentives for economic development and we have a lot more flexibility. And so given that there are lots of other ways to create affordable housing through our loan, you know, conduit loans through the Florida housing corporation, like there's lots of other ways that people can get money for those sorts of housing. And it seemed to me that it made a lot of sense for us to prioritize and focus on the area where we had the most flexibility to do the projects or to have them on AB Max and like flexible in terms of staff could use a chunk of it for land acquisition for a project that had affordable housing. And, you know, that was doing workforce housing and they could sort of cobble together, you know, chunks of the capital stack that made sense based on the complexity of the project. But there was a lot of that kind of conversation like is this just workforce housing? Is this just affordable housing? What are we doing with this money? And I think the lack of clarity from us about our policy directional where we wanna go with that money and what we wanna see happen with it has led it to just sort of like spin a little bit. And I think we've been given at the A-Hack like all these applications to review. And don't feel like we have the guidelines and sort of the criteria on which we're reviewing the applications in order to make good decisions and make sure we're maximizing less money. Thank you Mr. Chair. So can we go back to the three proposals that we received? Because I assume you looked at those maybe. Can you? Yeah, where is can you give me the address of where each of those are or approximate address? I'm in the total funding of the project versus the funding request. I think this kind of speaks to Commissioner Prisiod's point, which has always been, at least, my perspective as well, is how can we leverage our money with private sectors to get the biggest bank for a buck? Well, I guess, you know, I'm less, I guess, I mean, I hear where you're going maybe with the locations, but I'm less interested in the location and I'm more interested in us having a conversation not about these individual applications, but about what do we want this money to be spent on? Do we want this money to be spent on rehabilitation or new units? Because I feel like what we promised the voters was new housing, new workforce and affordable housing, not renovating existing. And I know the preservation of affordable housing is really important. And if their project doesn't qualify for any other types of funding to do that rehab, and it's going to be lost to like what we did with sunrise ember, it was going to be lost if we didn't, then I could see maybe that's a project we want to fund. But in general, to me, it didn't seem like that was the point of this money. The point of this money was to get new units on the market. Rather, those new rental units are for sale units. I'm just curious what the private sector sent us from the North of Proposal. I don't know what these are and where they are and how big the projects are. The Oak Park, is it that the one that was, that the gentleman came here? Can you talk about? I Maybe I just want to get that question answered. Do you have that information? Mr. Chair, so I don't have the specific addresses readily available, but for banging development, their property is by the Royal Park theater movie theater Because this would be phase two I believe they do have a phase one. So it within the city. Yes, sir. Okay. These are all within the city limits. Okay. What was the total project cost? I don't have a front of me, but their request for funding is about 6.5 million Right. That's their request for us to fund up how much of the total project? We can get that information for you. I mean, we have the application packets that were given to the AAC. I'm just curious what the private sector proposed to the county for us to fund. It's $13 million in total for these three. It's about 300 units, about 4,000 units, but I don't know how much private capital is being put into that. I'd like that answer from somebody before the meeting's over. So Mr. Chair, based on what Mr. Rauston provided to me, it's for the Baud Bannon one? Yep.. 43.7 million. Okay, 24 units. 40, 3.7 million. Okay. 38.4 million for eight units. There's two, I think there was two. Okay, that's okay. Okay, so they're requesting $6.5 million, $43 million project. What about the new start development? Do you have things to do? Yes, I do. I'm opening up. That's the one I thought they were going to add to, that they were going to build in addition to the existing senior housing. Yes, for senior housing. But not no new, it's saying no new units. They were talking about new units extended from that development. So I don't know what changed. But when he came here to present to us, he was talking about building on the lot that was next to it to extend their services. Am I wrong? Am I getting it wrong? That's not the application that we got though. Commissioner, Commissioner, the Claudia Attaclatch Accounting Community Support Services, I believe Commissioner the one you're talking about is the third one, OPU Apartments? Yes, OPU. The Oak Park is a rehab of the Housing Authority, existing complex. Right. It's new units. Okay, that is. There is a combination of new and rehab. Okay rehab okay gotcha thank you and how much was that total project Claudia you know which one is that the last one oh view I have a new star one okay I'm gonna do so right about 36 million. 36 million okay okay. And they're asking for 3.9. And then a lot. A lot. And so would both of those, if granted, would they be on the tax rolls? Or would they be tax exempt? Well, so would these projects be on the tax rolls? Or would they be tax, they wouldn't be tax exempt. That would be, my understanding is, oh good. Mr. Chair, I don't think we can talk to their taxing, because there's a number of different things that would go into whether they would be exempt and they would be exempt, for instance, from a certain amount, but not others of the advalorem, perhaps, but I don't think we can speak to that without understanding. Okay, so from my perspective, back to kind of a policy discussion, I'd love to have that information because I think we could make an argument back to Commissioner Alfred's point of like an endowment that if we fund these and they're subject to advalorum that we're going to be receiving a return on our investment over time through that avalorum and providing housing. And to the extent that we're providing a little bit of capital to leverage a much larger project, we get new units, we get avalorum revenue, and we get leverage on our existing tax dollars. And I think we could make a financial argument and a pro-form projection to where these are the kinds of things that we can provide to private developers to encourage private development of workforce housing that meets our kind of, this conversation we had that we had last week at the board meeting to the realtors that we're trying to find ways to incentivize the private sector to build workforce housing through this 54 million. And I would like to see through the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee staff prepare kind of that financial analysis to say, here's a good use of these funds that we can deploy to get units being built, have them vet it, and then bring it to the board. I can call the commission to proceed. I don't have a problem with the financial calculations of sort of like how these projects pencil out, like in terms of like return on investment, you know, how much are they per unit versus how much we're investing, those sorts of things. But I think a bigger conversation that we need to have is do we wanna do senior housing, do we wanna do disabled housing, do we wanna do rehabilitation housing? Because so far that's what we're getting, it's not workforce housing, which means technically that's not Economic development like if you're building housing for people who are retired or on disability They're not in the workforce. So we can't use the economic development portion of this money potentially, right? So we can't really even do technically these for some of these projects may not qualify because they're asking for gap financing But the only thing we can do under the affordable housing provision is by land. So they may be able through some complex calculation, figure out what their land costs are and do some kind of complicated land deal with the county where we owe the underlying land. Like that could happen but to me it feels like that's a lot of staff time and effort and energy and work when there are other pots of funding for that sort of housing. I agree with that. And we should be focused on the workforce housing where staff have maximum flexibility to do capital stack money and but I you know, it's not that I don't want to look at these projects and figure out how we might be able to support some of these projects through the Fort Worth House and Trust Fund or by helping them with conduit debt, you know things like that. Not only the workforce because they're all seniors. all senior or their rehab and I guess that's the other question is like do we want to do rehab and by helping them with conduit debt, you know, things like that. They're not really the workforce, because they're all seniors. They're all senior or their rehab. And I guess that's the other question is, like, do we want to do rehab? And if we do rehab, do we want it to be, that they have to demonstrate that those units would no longer be affordable without our money? You know, like, are they just rehabbing affordable units? Are they gonna keep the rent the exact same? Like, are the rent increasing? Because there's a lot of rehab going on. A lot of the units in our sort of stock and our stock, who I talked to this even more, are at that age, where they're all renovating a lot of them. And then they're increasing the rents. They're not increasing them. Some of them are flipping them into for profit, just regular housing, selling them to developers who are going to do that, but some of them are just renovating them and then uping the rent some, but not totally. And they're gonna do those projects regardless if other we give them money or not. And so it's just like, is that the best you said or money? I don't know. But to me, it felt like not really what we talked about, when we talked about doing this infrastructure service tax. I I feel like we told the voters more units. Yeah, well we said we sent applications to 113 developers like what did we send them? I know, well, and that's the interesting, I don't know. I have no idea. And I will say like, yes, today I had a meeting with the Florida Association of Developers and Reliters, or developers and owners and there was a representative AMJ, representative Collier, representative some of our biggest developers at Gilders and Town. None of them even knew we had some structures or text. Or at least they didn't seem like they knew. They acted like this was brand new information to them that we had $54 million on the table for the development of housing. Now maybe they know and they just wanted to play that they didn't know or maybe they didn't realize what it was really for. And so, you know, it seems like the real leaders and the developers were finally showing up at the table. And they're all handing us a bunch of data about affordable housing which was making me laugh. Because I'm like, yes, we've been having this conversation for four years, welcome. But I guess I just wanted us to like get those criteria because the financial criteria is definitely something that the Affordable Housing Advisor Committee asked for. We asked for cost per unit. And who it was gonna benefit? What percentage of AMI we asked for? It's proximity to other services. Like it's proximity to transportation, it's proximity to jobs, things like that. Walkability. Lockability. Just generally, like, the things that you look for when you're looking at affordable housing to be and that it was diversified, that it wasn't all in one location and that it wasn't East of Main Street, like all those things were kind of criteria. We wanted it to be vetted on. But the bigger question was this, seniors able to yes or no? Rehab, yes or no. Rehab, yes or no. So I know you've seen a disability, there are other programs for that money. I think we should be building workforce housing. Workforce housing. Yeah. And it seems like we need to. But if we would have set that out to 113 developers, then maybe we didn't set that out to 113. I think that's the thing. I don't think there was a lot of clarity. I mean, that was my sense. I mean, I'm not trying to say anything negative about stuff, but I don't think that was a lot of clarity. I mean, that was my sense. I mean, I'm not trying to say anything negative about stuff, but I don't think that there was clarity on what was allowed, what was really done. I think that's why we got that really great memo from legal was to try to clarify all of that so that everybody was on the same page. But prior to that memo, I don't think there was clarity from the different departments about how this money could be used. So I'm not sure that we knew what we were sending out. Let's give them a clarity. That's what they want. Commissioned and accurate. I think, you know, the reason why I thought that the endowment idea and low interest loans were a good idea is if we go back and we do a recourse analysis as to what keeps the workforce family from buying a home, it's not just the cost of the house, it's the cost of the payment. And so if you look at all the ways that you can reduce the payment that someone makes every month, then that changes what they can buy. Right, Ken? It's all about how much that's reducing that 30%. So the ways that, you know, you can do that are to lower the interest rate, you can lower the utility payment, you can, you know, lower the carry and cost in other ways. And that's sort of where I was coming from. Like, how do we get to that root cause of what keeps someone from being able to own a home or department for that matter? What is that, you know, what are those barriers and where can we have impact? And so, you know, when I look at things like an affordable housing project that I was looking at last week, GRU's connection cost for utilities, and this wasn't even the meter cost. This was to hook them up to the utility line with $17,000. I'm sure the cost to take that house off grid. And then would have, you know, no utility payment to speak of and that would be that much more buying power. You know, I just, I feel like we need to look at the root cause and just be creative and how we think about how do we get to that end result of making it available to someone to be able to buy a house. Mr. Chair? Yes, commission of prison. I agree with you and I think we have a lot of, like I think that like your program put into the energy of the component. I think we've got this new Empower Coalition that's working on the solar like, recycling, yeah we're doing a lot of stuff. That maybe could do that sort of stuff and then leverage with this. I feel like we have a lot of these pots and they're all in different departments. And so we don't always see the complex picture, but we're doing it. But we need to kind of almost have a flow chart of all the different things. All the programs and how do we get to that part? How do we get there? How can we layer them? But how do we layer them? But you know, one of the things that's become abundantly clear, and that's, I guess the Shemberg Center was going to maybe talk or at least they gave us their data. And I think one of the things that's become, I think it's worth us talking about, is that, you know, I think early on, all of helps lift people out of poverty. It's one pathway to creating assets and wealth is owning your home. But I think a lot of the people that we're talking about, like the gap that we have in housing are is really in that zero to 50% of the time. I mean, we have 6,000 units a gap at that level. That's the biggest gap is at that lowest level right and those are our EMT some of them or our our service workers or maintenance people are you know and so because that's the What's that rate? That's the Yeah 33 to 47,000 right? I mean our current we're making a little more than that, but not much more than that, our base, you know, teachers and things like that. So to me, like those people, ownership is not accessible. Like they need affordable rentals. And we have a major gap in affordable rentals. And I think it could be cool to push the envelope to try to think about, could we do something where a portion of that rent, if we're doing the project, is sequestered for down payment assistance that they could get access to in the future, right? Like 10% of their rent every month goes into a fund that then they get access to for down payment assistance and the future sort of like rent to own, you know, kind of things. Like there's lots of really cool things that are happening all around the country doing that. But I just don't, again, I don't know that this money is the money for that. And I feel like we need more affordable rental units on the market like ASAP. And so I guess I just keep going back to like, are we hearing from Shanty? Remember today? So Mr. Chair, as part of the presentation, we did include some of that data. And we do have Anne right here available if she wants to provide any updates from the Anne report from 2024. Oh, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anything here? It's over you. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Chair, members of the commission. Thanks so much for inviting me today. I appreciate the staff having me along. I've kind of been able to see this from both sides. So I'm with the Shimbirks Center for Housing Studies. My name is Anne Ray. I've been working on this. Mr. Chair, members of the commission. Thanks so much for inviting me today. And I appreciate the staff having me along. I've kind of been able to see this from both sides. So I'm with the Shimbirks Center for Housing Studies. My name's Anne Ray. I've kind of been able to see this from both sides. So I'm with the Shimberg Center for Housing Studies. My name's Anne Ray. I've been working with the Shimberg Center since 2001. In fact, the very first thing I did in Elachua County when I moved here was a study of inclusionary zoning policy and the potential for inclusionary zoning in Elachua County. And I think we're still referring to that work sometimes. So I sit on that side of the table where I coordinate our housing data clearing house and I think we're still referring to that work sometimes. So I sit on that side of the table where I coordinate our housing data clearing house and I have information about housing needs and housing supply around the state and you're seeing some of our data in your packet. I've also been on the Elatua Housing Advisory Committee for I think seven or eight years now and that experience I have to say has been really really valuable So that I'm understanding when I'm speaking to people not just here about around the state, but what our data means So I think I can provide you have some numbers in your packet and I think I can provide some clarification about some of the conversation we've been having So I think if we want to go to the start with that slide the one you have right in front of you that shows what AMI is. I wish HUD had an easier to understand term for this. Area median income, they start with that number, that $106,000 number you have. This is the numbers you're going to see here are one year old. They have gone up a little bit, and we'll be updating these materials. But then that $106,000 number is adjusted for household size. And it's also adjusted. They make other little adjustments, like some kind of hold harmless. So they're not dropping income limits and rents over the course of a year. Sometimes some kind of allowances for places that have particularly high housing costs. But I think the important thing really is to think about whenever you can, think about things in not in terms of AMI but in dollars. And so when we're talking about 50% of area median income, even if that's not in that 60 to 120 workforce definition, a 50% AMI is very much a working income. And in fact, the median wage for a Latua County hovers somewhere for a three person household, hovers somewhere between 50 and 60% of AMI. So half of our jobs are paying less than 60% AMI. So I would really encourage you when you're thinking about what's the workforce and what houses the workforce. Don't put that 60% AMI. I don't have much advocacy here, but that I will advocate for, not putting that 60% AMI floor on what you're doing, because many, many of our workers earn less than that. And I just see another part of the packet, our greatest need, as you were saying, for affordable housing, if you're looking at households right now who are in the county and paying more than 30% of their income for their housing. That greatest number is renters below 50% of AMI. There's also renters between 50 and 80% and owners under 50% who are also heavily cost burdened, but the biggest number here and anywhere in the state I'll be looking where there's a large group of renters at all is for renters under 50% of very median income. And in a latch to a county that's the case even if you take all the students out of the mix. Having the students in the mix upset that number a lot both in terms of they you know sort of present as renters below 50% of very median and of course they're competing for a very limited supply of rental housing, but even putting the students and the units say occupied to the side, the largest group of cost burden households in the Lachoba County are households earning less than 50% of our median income. And also when we look around the state, the jobs, most of the jobs that have the most projected growth, so retail sales, customer service, some restaurant jobs, cleaning jobs, the ones that are really adding people the most fall well below that 60% AMI mark. So, you know, I keep circling back to the same idea that what we're calling affordable housing is very much serving the workforce. And for renters between 30 and 60 percent of AMI, the vast majority of them have at least one working person in the household, and the ones that don't, almost all of them, are either elder or disabled. And in fact, and, you know, I mean, it might be worth asking about in the particular projects you had in front of you, there are also people living in senior housing who are working. So senior housing, the limit is age 55. Increasingly, people who are, you know, not just in their 50s, but in their 60s and sometimes 70s, are working because things have gotten to be so expensive because their because their fixed incomes aren't really supporting them. When we look statewide at low income renters, over age 55, we found 28% of them were in the workforce. So it's not a majority, but it's not a small number either. And one thing you could consider doing is if it's senior projects that are coming to you, maybe you want to talk to them about whether they are in fact housing renters who are working. Yeah. Good question. So I don't know if you want to go through anything else in this presentation, but I'd be happy to talk about our data and sort of where you can find access to information. Yeah. Where would you go for information? I would go to our website. I do provide hopefully in here I'll have links to so for instance it's a little blurry there but at the bottom of that slide where we talk about what's 50% what's 80% there's a link to getting that for any for any county in the state. You had some other stuff at the back too right? Yeah, that way. Okay, this is a whole bunch of links. So this came from a presentation that I had done at the AHAC a while back looking at the different measures of cost burden that we have on our website. So the value here is that we provide information broken down by oner versus renter, and that we go subcounty. So for every city and then for the unincorporated area, we divide these numbers out. And then that graph you have looks a little bit different because the county is bigger, we're able to do better and more up-to-date data. I mean, the other thing that, as a housing data analyst, I can tell you is that for a long time, I would get in front of people and say, well, this data is a little older, but things don't change that much. And then the last few years, I'm not saying things don't change that much anymore. up to any more rents really did increase in ways that I've not. And now they've leveled off, but they've leveled off at that high level. So the data you have here, that graph that's in there for the county, increase in ways that I've not and now they've leveled off but they've leveled off at that high level. So the data you have here that graph that's in there for the county, it's a year old and we can update that and we will be updating these presentations and they'll be on our website. But that I would say is the best breakdown of households by area median income, cost burden for the county. And if you want to look sub-county, then you can look at some slightly older but I think so representative data on our website. Thank you. So Mr. Chair, if I may go back to Commissioner Cornel's question about the three applications that we received. So for the first one, for Bayon development, as mentioned, that potential project address is West University Avenue, Southwest Second Avenue. And the project costs is kind of a sliding scale. So the estimate of 43.7 million, if it's 104 units or 38.4 million, if it's 88 units. For the second project, from Gainesville Housing Authority and Newstar Development for Oak Park, that's- You're also in Rosembroke before we go to the park. And so they requested $6.5 million of funds from us. That's correct. $6.5 million. And so what is that like 15%, 12% to 15% of the project? I counted that number. That's just what they need to make it financially viable. According to the application, yes sir. And so how will you evaluate that project to bring back a recommendation to the board? Well, so staff did prepare currently a draft of evaluation criteria. And so one of them would be the subsidy cost per unit in addition to location, other factors. So how is that, is that like do you score it or? Yeah, looking at like a point system. Yeah. And so obviously if they require less subsidy per unit, they would get more points. And how do you address commercial printings this point, which is this is more senior housing as opposed to workforce housing? I mean, that actually says it here, not workforce housing target population. I think the way we should approach that is based on Ms. N. Ray's recommendation. I mean, if we dig down deeper to each proposal, having a developer, the applicant respond to specifically what target population it is, how much is employed, how much to really understand what they're targeting. And is the county's funding a piece of like a capital stack? Like are they getting additional funds because it's senior housing and that's why they're able to do it? Yes, or generally it is because it is limited and so at 43 million for a hundred units, if they were to apply for the 6.5 million and get it, I mean, they have other like Florida housing finance corporation construction, the loans, other sources of financing. So it is usually layered. Okay, commissioners, I didn't. No, I guess I just wanted to follow up on that. I mean, I think one of the things that is, you're bringing up that I think is interesting that sort of we should also talk about. I just should to seniors or not, rehab or not, you know, whatever is like do we want to cap on how much we're willing to give a project like are we saying we'll give up to x percent of the project and no more like cap and thought or is it project by project and we're going to rank each project independent and just go with what they they ask, you know what I mean? And then also the developer fees, like how much are we gonna cap the event, like that they- is it project by project and we're going to rank each project independent and just go with what they ask for. You know what I mean? And then also the developer fees. Like how much are we going to cap them up like that they can make. You know, like some of the, you know, there's always going to be a fee that developers make it on the project. And I don't have a sense of what that typically is and what, you know, where those ranges typically fall. housing corporation. I'm saying our needs. Shimburg or the off-board of housing might know and we could have those guidelines and have that set in there as well so that we're making sure. I would go to four housing corporations and for guidelines. I'm saying our Navy should work toward a housing might know and we could have those guidelines and have that set in there as well so that we're making sure we're not just basically financing profit for the developers as well. Yeah, I mean, what I mean, my overriding policy is I want the county's money, the taxpayers money, the fund projects that but not for they wouldn't happen. So we're able to leverage those monies, provide more units, and then get a return back on our investment to taxpayers to additional effort. And we have more units available for four thousand. So I'm not sure exactly how to provide policy direction to you with regards to that, but That's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for leveraging, which is what we sold to the taxpayers, that we're gonna take 30% of this infrastructure sales tax money and provide more housing to the workforce. And we want the private sector to, we want to leverage private sector dollars. I answered my own question. I'm good. I just was, I had questions, so questions about the extremely low income units tonight. Just for me, the kind of a product I'd want to do if we could keep there. All of these two. Just that question. You mentioned Carver Gardens in that list previously. Where is Carver Gardens in relation to all of us? It's... My concern was because it's neighboring to the property we have that we're trying to get developed. I just... Legacy, yes. Yes, I was concerned that it was going to get helped or that actually the owner was actually going to do something with that property. Or, you know, when you mentioned it, it got my ears because I've been focused on it as well. Well, today, the owner of Carvegardons, or who did acquire Carvegardons, did not request for infrastructure surtax buying. But specifically asked for- And that's why I was trying to follow up- Yes, the bond financing. He's asked for condominant debt support. Oh, I see. OK. You're right. But you're right. That is next to the two parcels for the legacy project. So if I may continue, so I think we'll, so it is actually part of your packet where we did provide application summaries to the 4-Bahousing Advisory Committee. So moving on to the second one for Gainesville Housing Authority and New Star Development for their project Oak Park. This is some of the information that staff put together and so the total project costs would be about 36 million. And again, that project addresses that 1900 Southeast Fourth Street in Gainesville. And then the third and final application that we've currently received is for overview apartments. That's at 1515 Northwest 10th Street in Gainesville, and also at 1500 Northwest 12th Street in Gainesville. So they've estimated that project cost to be about 43 million. Yeah. I think one of the things that could be really helpful, I think maybe, And if any of the A-hack folks that are here want to chime in on this, but I feel like when we got these, it was really hard for us to sort of, we got the information. It was definitely good information. And it was some of the information that we asked for. But I guess I feel like what we need, at least I feel like what I need as a board member, is more of an analysis, like almost the way that like growth management does an analysis of development projects for us to review against our, you know, against our, uh, completely sort of say like, yes, this is a good project because it's, it's like close to these amenities and that's in our comprehensive plan. And yes, this is our policy, say that we that we want you know we want walkable streets in the limited parking in this project does that and like so they go through kind of like each of the things that we're trying to achieve and they sort of like say does the project meet those goals or doesn't it and how does it do that so it sort of helps us get an analysis because I feel like right now I just have the data and I'm sort of like left to try to like sus this out for myself and I don't feel like I always have the expertise or the understanding and I don't have the context of it within the like the realm of what our housing looks like in general. So I feel like having that analysis of each project would be helpful. I don't know if others think that's overkill but I don't think it's overkill. Now, it would help us with the recommendation. All these on the surface look like they're good projects. Yeah, it'd be nice to have sort of rating systems, some sort of, you know, like, like, here are the things that are the most important to us, and here's where it falls on that scale, you know? So you can do that. And so, I mean, so these are our disabled and senior housing, like, do we want to go back on that? I mean, like, that's one of those issues, like I say, I, how would staff, would that, would these be eligible for gap financing based on the analysis and stuff of dying? So I got the the sense that they would only be eligible for land acquisition if they were not workforce housing. So Mr. Chair that's one of the things we were looking at I think there's and this is going for memory but I think there's one senior housing project and then there was another one that was a senior housing project and added in a number of what they called workforce housing. We'd have to look at that as far as the numbers and what pots you could pull it from, what under what theory you could pull it from. Potentially you could put them both together and kind of get some more near what they were asking for. Potentially. And this one, that one is 11% developer fee. So that's the lowest of the three. And the other ones upwards of 14%. So Mr. Tarrick, may I ask you before you get them gifts to this point where we are now, you all have looked at those things, haven't you, in terms of where they are and what you've already done that investigative work, is to know where they are in relation to where the population is and where access to transportation is. So really, when we see it in this form, you all have gone through those checklists. Would you say? Well, not based on the criteria, but just based on the application that they've submitted. This is like a summary of it. So this information is not based on the criteria since that it's really still like a working draft. We wanted to get more direction from the board to see if these projects would be eligible. So if we had Anna's checklist that she's talking about, as we're discussing these things, we could mark off the questions that you would be able to answer for us in terms of location and population and that sort of thing. So we could do that as a board, maybe, Anna, so we could all discuss it rather than have them do it, do that checklist. Then we would be informed. Well, I guess as I'm saying is just like staff doesn't analysis for us of development projects and group management. I guess I'm asking the housing staff to do that same analysis and give us their report so that we can go through it as a board. Well, first they would go to AHAC and AHAC would go through it. And then they would make recommendations to us like, yes, this project, maybe this project, know this project, yes, this is quite, and then those recommendations would come to us, and then we would be able. And then those recommendations would come to us. And then we would be able to either take those recommendations or read the analysis ourselves and say, well, they said no to this, but we actually think it's a good project because X, Y, and Z and approve it. Or we agree with their recommendations. I think you're asking us for that checklist. They are. asking guys, and I mean I think what they're asking right exactly and that's the problem is like we've been kind of going back and forth on what is that? What are those criteria that we want to use for this money in particular and how do we define that? Mr. Chair? Yes. So I mean I'll give you my thoughts on kind of a macro level, maybe this can get some discussion going. I feel like of the 54 million, if we could just say almost half, so 25 million of that we want to use to allocate to incentivize the developers. And of that 25 million we want our contribution to be say 10%. So we want to build $250 million worth of work for housing in this community. It seems like. All of that 30% is for housing. The full- Right, but- But all 54 million is to incentivize housing and development of- Double these numbers, so 50 million, so 500 million of affordable housing. You know, I think those are the kind of guidelines I think staff needs like- Exactly. We have 50 million dollars. We want to take that to incentivize using 10% of the project cost. So we want a half a billion dollars of housing built in our community, 500 billion. And at an average price of 100,000 units, that's 5,000 units. That's kind of like our overriding goal. And we want it for workforce housing, which is 30 to 60% of AMI, as far as the end units, so it can be rental units and de-repro units. We want to be part of a capital stack, so they have to have other capital stacks that are they're using. We're 10%, so they're, they're, they're, they're the rest of it, right. The developer fee can't exceed and then tell us what that number is. Percentage of a project. I don't know what that is so that we're not basically just paying for the profit. We are paying something but we're basically making a project work. And then from there, once you have kind of that high level of, here's the guidelines, then we put that out to 113 developers and say, bring us back your projects. What's the main? What's the main? What's the main? Because that's where the employment center goes. And I was going to say, I mean, I think it's also probably some of the employment centers that are going to have to be the transportation and all of the things that I think a lot of the state and federal programs use as sort of like, you know, the things that staff know all that. They take the Florida Housing Corporation guidelines that they use kind of mirror those so that we can take those three or four projects that they're looking at. But we can say, yeah, we're looking at three or four other ones because we only get a handful. And that's what I'm kind of looking for as a commissioner that you guys can bring us back. Okay, we got ten applications and these are the top three that we can fund. Well, and I guess that's the other piece that I had a question. And I asked, eh-hack, and we didn't have an answer for is, are we taking each of these projects independently or? top three that we can fund. Well, and I guess that's the other piece that I had a question and I asked it, A-Hack, and we didn't have an answer for is, are we taking each of these projects independently or are we weighing them against each other in terms of, you know, and like, what is that ranking? Like, that's what, I guess that's where that analysis comes in because I mean, in an idea world, we get a lot of applications, right? We have three right here that's worth a lot of money already. Yeah. More than we have in the bank right now. But like if we got $50 million worth of applications, are we bonding that money and doing I mean, we have three right here that's worth a lot of money already. Yeah. More than we have in the bank right now. But like if we got, if we got 50 million dollars with the applications, are we bonding that money and doing it? Or are we only working with what we've got in the bank right now? You know, and are we comparing projects against you? I'm not saying that. I have no problem bonding that money. We bonded two percent and we get that going because I think what that does is I guess the ad warm into the tax rolls faster. Exactly. And more units on the market. And more units on the market quicker. And then I think what we could do is we could actually do an analysis where staff says, OK, we're adding this year 150 million of ad valorm next year, another 100 million. And we could actually map this out to where that ad valorm gets cast Inter-operable housing trust fund. Yeah, and that's kind of what I think the taxpayers wanted us to do. Yes. And that was the point of this, I think, in a lot of ways, was we didn't create a bucket for the affordable housing trust fund. It was an empty bucket that the voters voted for, so we need a financing mechanism. Right. Yeah, so those are my collective thoughts. You know, 50 million to try to build 500 million of housing, 10% leverage. I laid out a couple of requirements that I would want to see, but I don't want to be... I want to be something that staff can look at a project quickly, use the guidelines of Florida housing corporation is already using. Make sure it's in places that are close to transportation. West the main. Street close to transportation. West of Maine, street close to employment centers. Yeah, jobs. New units. So where do we start talking about East Gainesville? Where does that fit in that formula that you're trying to set up. This money isn't for that. This money is for... Well, workforce housing. I mean, maybe it's worth an hour to think about that. I mean, we've got Lincoln Middle School. It's right across the street from where we have properties. We have an activity center in East Kentucky. It's all right near, you know, against, I mean, on East Side. Yeah, I guess the affordable housing was the policy east of Maine was affordable housing. So this could be anywhere. This workforce has... Eastside. Yeah I guess we the affordable housing was the policy east of name was the affordable housing So this could be anywhere this workforce housing could be anywhere as long as it's next transportation subject to the Employment Center. Well and the other part of talking about East Gainesville is that I think the senior housing and veteran housing too Right, that's where the, I think, may have taken the direction with the senior because we've talked about the housing that we would put over on that side would accommodate seniors and veterans if it was multi, if it was a complex. I mean, Opus, let's say that's workforce and senior housing. Right, that one is. The others are not. And one is rehab and one is just senior and disabled. I just don't think that they fit this. I mean, my personal feeling is while I know that we need that housing and while I understand that it's important housing, I just don't think this is the bucket for that. I want to see us doing workforce housing. I want to see us meeting the missing housing, the major gap. With the infrastructure sales tax. I'm not saying we don't do the other stuff with other funding or, you know, but I do think that that's what this money was meant for. I mean, it's really actually in statute. I mean, we could do land acquisition, but we can't do a lot for those types of projects unless it's our her point. 28% of seniors are working. So if they can demonstrate that it's a working population and then I don't, then I suppose we could do it. Just how often do we do everything? The better it's everything. It's for the west side. Everything is for the west. It's all of these. So if they can demonstrate that it's a working population, then I don't, then I suppose we could do it. Just how often do we do everything? And that way, everything is for the West side. Everything is for the West. All of these things are going to the West. And I just don't want to get caught up in that when we're in dealing with it. Don't I agree? I don't think this is subject to not being in the East side. This is a lot of people there. It's such a security age, it's going up to 67. So you've got 55 plus community. That's probably a good chunk of the people there are going to be work. So the question. age is going up 67. So you've got 55 plus community. That's probably, you know, a good chunk of the people there are going to be working. So the question to the developers that in their applications is just like, it's like, are your seniors working? Like they just need to get more information on seeing a retirement housing. This is a retirement housing. This is seeing your housing. It's a difference between retirement housing and seeing your housing. We've also got growing businesses on that side of town. We've on the eastern, eastern main. We've got these businesses that we're trying to build up over there too. So the housing needs to be there. And the housing's not there. That's why we don't get groceries. Well, have we quit talking about what is it land trusts? Or I mean, we have that land. Can we not offer that up so we can get some of that housing by Lincoln, little school and William's elementary school and the urgent care center that's coming and the I was going to ask what the legacy. Yeah, I don't. I was going to share with us what the selected vendor is going to be building. Are we ready quiet That's in negotiations right now with procurement okay Fair enough little heartwood you know that's growing those areas are growing up over there too You know if you want to add to them Expand them expand that kind of development over there. Oh, well with Hartwood is there selling for less than the cluster construction? All right. And stand here. You looking for direction from us? I think we need to. I think we need to make a motion. I think I hear you all. I mean, to me, what I hear is we want new units, not rehab. We want working people, no matter their age, we want working people. We want to target the 30 to 60% AMI's priority, but within 0 to 120% AMI. So, is they're going to have to pencil out the projects, right? So, as long as there's the majority of the units that were subsidizing or in that workforce. So, Godblind, so they get prioritized kind of based on the number of units that are going to be meeting those gap needs, right, of 30 to 60% versus 60 to 120%. I think staff can work on that. So we've got that. We've got the and then we've got we've got 10% right over the project and then we need staff to do the research on the developer key. Right? And of course we've got all of the other criteria that they're going to rank it on based on its proximity to amenities. And I think transportation. And I think energy efficiency is going there somewhere. So my question for staff is when we sent the application to the 113 developers, was that was that kind of sent out if we were to give that guidance would would we send this back out to developers and do we think we would get more than just three? Mr. Chair, I definitely think that would be helpful because I think it was challenging for staff to explain the program because it was still flexible from the beginning. Sure. I think having the established criteria and really the target would be very helpful. So the criteria that you just heard from Mr. Prisya particularly is that knowing what you know and the conversation you've had, do you think you would get a series of potential projects back with that? I mean I hope developers hear us that project doesn't have to be a hundred percent of virtual housing. The dream would be that you're building a noble on over or by a major over spring hill, a major activity center, right? If you can make some of those units affordable by applying this money to your project and suddenly, you know, 20% of those units now are for workforce instead of all being like full-cost units. That's all right. That's all win for us. That's a huge win because we're diversifying housing, we're diversifying where people live. We're getting housing for the workforce. It's actually working in those places to be able to live. There's just the doctors and the lawyers and the, so to me that's a win. So why don't we move that we ask staff to take the feedback that they've heard from this meeting, bring back potential guidelines for us to consider creating kind of policy that we could then send out to further sent that we could send out to the developers. And then there analysis criteria. And then there analysis criteria. Would that be okay? A hack and for us. A hack and for us. A hack and for us. A hack and for us. A hack and for us. A hack and for us. A hack and for us. A hack and for a second. I'll second that mission. Is that way we can kind of hear what we said, bring us back recommendations, and then let us kind of, but feel like we're kind of doing it on the fly, and we really need them to lay out what they think would be successful. With the goal, okay, with the goal of being able to spend 50 million and leverage that into another half a billion of private financing. And at a unicoss of approximately 100,000 units. That's 5,000 units. Which some of these are much lower than that, so we may be able to even come in. And to your point, if a developer said I've got 100 million dollar projects, but I can allocate 20% of that to workforce housing. That's a criteria that I would give higher weight to because you're diversifying housing in a singular project. And I don't think those developers were responding to this call. I think the people who were looking at this call were primarily people who do affordable housing because that was kind of the blinders that were on around this project. And I think by this conversation, hopefully developers are listening and our staff will hopefully be the word out. But like the idea is that we're trying to increase workforce housing across our community and accessible housing everywhere. Yeah, and I see Adam here. There's a lot of folks that are here. There's a lot of folks that can come into this. Yeah, okay. But I would just like to say that if you're gonna bond $50 million, $50 million is not gonna be enough. It might be. That's always not. I know, but I'm just seeing you. So that's where Chuck, I think I agree with you and I think that it's kind of like when we first started wild places. So you're gonna get low- in stuff. I mean, I hate to say that, but I mean, that's what you're going to get. I know what quality. No, I think what we're going to housing for folks, because the cost, the cost of construction cost is high. OK, it's very, very high. And then just yesterday, the partners the Partners Association gave me the timeline it was like six million dollars To actually complete a project just six million and I'm like well, that's a lot of money to me To get to to one point and not even gotten return on your money in terms of renting it And I'm just saying, so you didn't spend $6 million off the bat and now you're trying to get to one point and not even gotten and return your money in terms of renting it. And I'm just saying, so you don't spend $6 million off the bed and now you're trying to get started. It's just very, very expensive, so your rent has to be high. But I think that's what we're trying to do with this program, right, is say that we're basically subsidizing those costs. So we're basically saying we've got financing to help cut your costs of doing business so that you can afford to charge less for rent. So it may cost them $100,000 to build a unit which is insane, but if we're taking 10% off of that, 20% off of that by them working their financing. But does that make it a sweet deal for them to do it though? It's one thing. They're gonna make money. They're not there to lose money. I mean, let's be realistic. We're being excited when we talked about what I talked about with them the other day. I mean, I don't know. But I'm just saying, you know, I just think that it's not enough. I mean, if we, you know, I think that if I remember the 30% AM and I was, I think, the highest in terms of housing that we don't have. Right? So why not try to address some of that and then some of the workforce at the same time? I just don't know how you meet that because somebody wants $6 million, somebody else wants $3 million, it is somebody that might need eight or nine million dollars. And if you're talking about bonding $50 million, that ain't that many projects. It's going to happen because of the cost. And that's what I'm saying. So I mean, how do we make this a sweet deal for the developers to want to do this? I guess I feel like that. I mean, I guess I don't, I feel like that is a really sweet deal. I feel like we're giving them free money This isn't financing Here let's hear from them, but yeah, I you know, I just don't hear it. I don't think I heard that yesterday But anyway, but I do think we're also stuck, but I think that's totally different from what they're asking for But that is workforce housing that I think that we're all stacking stacking on top of that, right? We're stacking on top of that, our voluntary inclusionary housing stuff that we just did. We're stacking on top of that the supports that we have for energy efficiency, for upgrades to apartments. We have conduit financing debt at low interest rates. So I think if our housing staff find the developers that want to work with us and utilize this infrastructure search act, there's other tools in the toolbox that we can also use to help lower their overall cost of development to make these projects viable, right? Like permit times, permit costs, that we have the conversation about, you know, open space and trees and like there's so many things that we have in our toolbox that we can use to help make these projects pencil out right. pencil out yeah yeah. let's hear from you. the day you say the national second. yeah so we're ready for public college. yes everybody jumping. We're gonna get cut a few folks. Yeah. Are you wrong? I think the things the city is doing in conjunction with GHA could be your model. They're putting their finance. is in a forced housing finance authority is helping with some of that too. So they're getting some county help. But the Lachik County Housing Authority meets Wednesday. Love to see you, y'all. Show up five o'clock at Zikasta House. I've only seen Mary there, Mary Alfred there recently. So we're, we're're we're chairs waiting for some stuff. And I want to I want to urge you to pay close attention with the federal budgeting process, what this legislature is about to do with the T HUD appropriation, because he had talking a lot about huge cuts to rental assistance, blanket cuts, very loud, I think is at 40%. And for this town, for that, along with the closing of housing that you left, is going to mean that much more urgent problem. I did you need another reason to feel urgent but there it is. Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity comment. My name is Alex Kiss. I'm managing partner of Banyan Development Group. So we just completed a real park. Mr. Chair, I believe this is one of our applicants. It is. For one of the applications. So I would just remind applicants that if you have a current application in front of staff or in front of the board that you can be disqualified when you're in the blackout period if you speak about the application. Okay, fair enough. And I did bring some photos out of the lead down here. So that's talking general. In general, that was my primary. So we completed the Royal Park Apartments. We're doing businesses ban you hammock and that's right north of the Royal Park Theatre. And that one is a sale and 4% low and composing tax tax credit transaction. The other type of transaction that will typically finance affordable housing is the 9% loan and commas and tax credit. So those are your main vehicles to build affordable housing. And without those funds, there's typically no affordable housing built. The housing authority even uses those funds and partners with developers to rehab and redevelop their properties. And so I would encourage you to think in conjunction with those Florida housing programs, which are administering federal loan come housing credits. And what your funding could do is increase the number of units that are built. And so, you know, your funding is capped by Florida housing and by federal regulations. And by providing additional funding, I think when the solicitation went out in January for this funding it said up to 15% of the total funding. And so that allows, you know, there's a sweet spot in there where a deal could go from, you know, could it could be increased potentially 50% or more of the total units by your funding being 15% of the capital stack. So your funding helps extend the capital stack because there's other funding that comes in that is that is capped but it's kind of hard to explain but it's a view like equity like it's like equity it would your ears was initially intended to be a loan I think was a soft loan it would be behind the first mortgage and so you could you could still have your full first mortgage right from private lender and then you could insert the county funding behind it and it would pay the first mortgage and then instead of paying cash flow you could you could serve as some amount of county debt service and then and then you would you would essentially be getting without having to reduce the first mortgage you could add capital, right? You could add debt to the stack and so you're not changing the restrictions or anything of that nature and you could just increase the number of units. So I thought you had a good program there that worked well and then there's one other thing I wanted to mention with regard to Florida Housing Trans Corporation. They're currently imposing a limited development area over the entire county for family and elderly and they're revisiting the senior so that's the official term is elderly and there's 55 up and there's a 62 and a definition age. Otherwise, there's no difference in the funding. There's no difference in the demographic. The family demographic is just not age restricted. And so they're revisiting, they're probably going to lift the elderly, the senior demographic restrictions for the entire county this year. But I think family will probably be restricted. So if you're goal to do workforce housing, the Florida Housing Application process is, the applications would be due in November and you would not be able to apply for any workforce, any family development. So I would keep that in mind as you move forward for near future. There's developments mainly on the east side of town that weren't showing good occupancy. And in the interest of not cannibalizing those developments, Florida Housing Finance developments, they're limiting new development in the county. So as to protect those and allow those to go up so they don't foreclosed on and lose those Fort Williams. So, let's heck up more notes. I don't know if I have extra time. But Orange County has a good template to look at. They have an affordable housing trust fund. They provide for deals that have sale financing, which is the low interest loan gap financing. Lorde has provides for 4% transactions in a similar type of position where you get a first more than you do a second, which is the State Department's end of loan and you pair that with the 4% loan-combatant tax credits. They have funding that they go behind the sale and they'll do up to $3 million. And then if you do not have sale, they'll go up to $7 million. And so that's a pretty good template. And they use a half percent interest. And they do fees and neighborhood lending partners, services, all the loans. They don't have to worry about it. They take care of the underwriting and the closing and the servicing of the debt. So that's a pretty good template, you know, no need to reinvent the wheel. But I would say that without, are pretty much the ways that the affordable housing gets built. I say affordable, I'm really in talking up to 120% AMI, but typically it's, you know, that Lonkin has in tax credit is average of 60% AMI. Okay. And so that's, and so you can go up to 80% AMI and you can average your income since we do a deeper targeting down to 30, you know, typically in up to 80. So other than using low and rising tax credit funding, it's difficult to make any affordable housing depends on the cost of construction costs to your point. Mr. Chair are very high and interest costs rates are high. So I would encourage you to look at the Orange County model because that's working well and they're getting They're going to be paid back is the way it's you know, it's gonna be recycled and they keep adding to it and putting it out in a lot of A lot of formal housing is getting built and chip it away at the issue, which is a It's a big one in Orange County too. Thank you Alex. Yep. Good afternoon. Malcolm kind of gains with House Authority. I had a question and then a couple of comments. Respect to the manager's point, we are current applicant with Oak, with the motion that you currently have on the table, possibly changing the criteria of the application. Well we as applicants be notified, so we have the possibility to reapply if certain criteria changes. I don't think it's going to change this application. We're talking about policy direction for the future. Okay. Is that is that right? Unless you tell us to pull back with all the right which we haven't done. Okay, so we'll await that just a couple of points of clarification. O Park the address is 100 northeast eighth avenue. 1900 is the authorities, our main headquarters. And I would say you guys brought up a lot of good points and again we thank you for your thought on this topic affordable housing. You spoke to workforce housing. Many of you all are familiar with choice neighborhood grant that we received along with the city. So with that grant we did a market study for that subsection of East Gainesville that we're studying. And our draft concept plan for the East University Avenue area that consists of Lake Terry and some pie meadows, we now have a concept to bring back around 460 units, opposed to 180 that are currently there. Much of that will be workforce and market rate. So we'll be glad to share that market study with you as well as that concept plan. Also on May 29th we'll be having what we're calling an open house at the new training center that we developed along East University Avenue. And at that open house we'll talk about obviously the training center and the programs we want to offer within the East Gainesville community But also that housing plan through choice and so it'll be a good opportunity for you all as well as members of the public to come out and learn more I was going to add some points about our application the last gentleman talked about the tools in the toolbox for portable housing The housing authority we have to to go along with those same tools We can't go to a bank because of our rents, and the rents being subsidized. But we'll await your decision, and we'll go from there. Malcolm, what's the address again? It is 100 Northeast Eighth Avenue. It's the six-story high-rise building, and most of us have passed all the time right across the street from the firestone. We missed the open house again. May 29th. All time. From 4 o'clock to 6 p.m. 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. I was sad to miss the opening song, glad you're doing it. Please, we, we like you all to come out and take a look at the facility. We're really proud of it. It's the 100 building. Is it? That was a former housing authority building, but the address is 100 North Vs 8th Avenue. So if you're at Main Street and 8th Avenue, it's the high rise building right by... a former housing authority building, but the address is 100 North East Eighth Avenue. So if you're at Main Street and eighth Avenue, it's the high rise building right behind the gas station. Okay. Kind of adjacent to the duck park. You know, folks in the neighborhood, I did it. We call it the 100 billion dollar. Oh, that perceives me. I'm sorry. No, no. I have friends who live in there. Oh, yeah, yeah. They call it a monitor. We're on the bank. Thank you, Melkley. Yeah. What a really good thing. It makes me feel like I'm local. You're right. You're right. Hi, guys. I'm also an applicant. I'll stay in generalities. I'm Joe Eddie. So I'm the owner of Oakview, I'll formally call it Horizon Sunset. So just a few things I think it's great that you guys are defining workforce as 30% of mine up. I mean, our property has all 50% AMI right now and people work, you know, and so I think that's great to define it that way. On the seniors piece, I can go back and look at our data, our portfolio, be good to hear kind of where kind of the real data analysis come out, come out. But for seniors, we kind of found that, you know, it's almost like a sliding scale of 55 plus, at 55 people are working. I mean, you know, and then once you get to 85, you're not finding all of the people working. So, typically when you build one of these properties, it's the younger side gets in and then as it ages. So our properties that are 40 years old and it's a lot of, like very early, right, in a lot of 80 year olds. And so that makes me to be a trouble a little tougher on determining that, but that's, I think that's reality. On just on construction and kind of the 10% idea, I think real numbers, I mean, it makes you want to throw up, but it's probably like $350,000 to build a unit. I mean, I think one of the projectors is 400. Not 100. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean, not 100. Yeah, I mean. And really, the subsidy amount depends more on the affordability, right? So if you're building a one bedroom unit and rents are at the kind of affordable range of $800, that's about what it costs to operate a unit. So you're making no money, so you need a 100% subsidy. So in a project like that, and the staff can go back and kind of go through that, you almost need $350,000 of subsidy to build that unit. Or you need a voucher, a section 8 voucher from the housing authority or HUD. You know, if you're building a market rate unit, you need a theory, no subsidy. It's somewhere in between. And so even right now, you're not seeing a lot of market rate housing because the numbers don't work. We have interest rates, we have construction costs going up, tariffs. And even in our world, in the LITECH, the low income housing tax rate of world, we've seen credit pricing. So we go and we sell those credits, right? We'll go to the government and our project. You know, on a project, you get $10 million. We've seen credit pricing go down in a project for a year ago at 91 cents down to 81 cents because investor returns of what's happening in the stock market and stuff has changed. So that's just something, like, there's so many things going on, right? You know, in the world it's unfortunately, it's tough. So I would just encourage you, there's so many things going on, right? You know, in the world it's unfortunately it's tough. So I would just encourage you to look at a sliding scale on affordability. So not all projects are equal and ten of your point. I mean, I think we may be able to make it make more sense if we're building more luxury housing and having a small amount of affordability. You just have to think of that's what you guys want, you know on that so Because we you know whatever I can't talk to the individual of the parts. But yes, that's something to think about. It would be helpful on the trees and things like that. I don't know how much you can do with the city. I think the city kind of governs it for in this, if the project in the city. But that is, we've seen in other states and other cities where, you know, waving, building permit fees, which hundreds of thousands of dollars help, you know, the tree, the tree piece where cutting down a tree to build affordable housing can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars as well. So I appreciate you guys thinking about that. Thanks, Joe. Thanks, guys. Adam Gerstke, realtor at Matchmaker Realty. I do like the path, so I do think we definitely need more workforce housing and I like the new definitions, new units. We know that while preservation is important, we need more units and that's just a fact and we're gonna be getting worse if we don't do something sooner than later. I want to make sure that long run, you know, yes, we're seeing the numbers that we definitely need rentals, but that they're not all rentals. It's very, very, very hard to find whatever affordable homes to purchase or even condos for that matter. And so, you know, I don't want us to lose sight of that moving forward that keep in mind those projects and then be creative. Maybe it is whether it's this pot of money or others, whether it's a low interest loan because obviously that becomes the burden of that monthly payment, whether it's the land trust model that can expand the opportunity and we're seeing that but again very few homes in this community under that model and something that we could look into whether it's Orange County, Trust Fund idea and kind of nearing that process. I think that is important because why reinvent the wheel if we don't have to. Always want to make sure that we're not forgetting families. When you're looking at the housing and the options, we're looking at what is the missing housing and even, like I said, maybe single family we're talking multi-family, but let's not forget duplexes and triplexes and quads because that is really a good stock and it's in fill and it's higher density which helps in many, many ways. So just to keep our eyes open on all of it and then of course streamlining the process. You know from an I'm not a developer but I can tell you that that is constantly a comment that we hear back is the process, the process, the process and time is money. And so if you can find a way, especially in these type projects that may have an affordable or workforce piece to say we're going to get you there, we'll make it more palatable to them. Because if you wonder where their applications are, sometimes the painting with a broad brush is it's going to be too complicated and I don't want to do it. And we have to know that that's the reality to fix it to then get them to the table to say okay we do want to do it. So thank you. Thank you. I'm just going to come up here with something very general. And as you know, a longstanding resident of Gainesville. We've been talking about, you know, we all have been talking about affordable housing for a long time. Streamlining is important. And I just want you to remember that we really, you know, it would... Others are looking or in waiting. There are a lot of people out here that need places to stay. For the now, for projects that's going to work now, that's going to build now. I've been a property manager here in Gville for almost 20 something years And the application rates for housing is getting higher and higher each year Okay, I'm talking about three four years wait list of all ages from young to seniors and They really need places to stay in a number one question. They always ask me all the time Do you you know if they're gonna build any more housing you know it's running out and people who really need places to stay is feeling hopeless right now. They really are. And there's nowhere for them to go. Of course we know rent causes have gone up. They're really high. I don't live on a subsidy apartment, but my rent is high. I'm really, really paying high rent, so can you imagine for people who need housing seniors who are getting fixed incomes? Families who are just starting out who just, they can't afford it. They're running out of places to stay. It's causing dismay for everyone, not just for them, but if they have to live with someone who lives in subsidy housing, then they have to risk. They have to leave and there's some space to space and this and that. So I just really encourage, I mean, I'm glad we're coming up on these conversations in the last year. Affordable housing has really been on the table. And I'm so happy about that. But yes, it really would look into them and see who's ready to build right now. So at least by the end of next year, there will be units available for all the residents in Elitra, or county that needs a place to stay. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. My name's Nick Sippling. I'm the policy director at Community Spring. Just a couple of quick things to emphasize. Our position has often has been the county's position for a number of years too. I just want to re-emphasize that 50% AMI threshold is being the most important. That's what just kind of I know and Ray touched on that very clearly, but just over and over, I think that, you know, I'm happy to have the range. I know that the flexibility is important in these conversations, and also I was just looking at the Schimberg Center's website, and, you know, just to point out, if you take it up to 120% AMI, a two-bedroom rent could be $2,800, which is just not really the win. And I know everybody here agrees with that, but I just want to take a chance to re-emphasize that. And then the one other thing that just came up, I think as you all are talking, I appreciate the conversation. I'm excited to see where this goes. It's just how long the affordability will last at any of the units that are under consideration. I know that there's some guidance in the Florida statutes about that, but just to make sure that that gets factored in, there's obviously a big difference in 10 years. 10 years, is that the number? Well, I think that there's different rules depending on that. I'm not even going to try it. I'll leave that to the county attorney to see what the rules are. But I think that that's just an important fact to be not lose sight of of, you know, how long the units take for. Thanks, Max. Can any further public comment. Okay. Orange County. Who else should we be looking at? We know. Yeah. Mr. Sherry, we already faced a lot of this on Pinellas County, which was the rolling application concept? Yep, I like that. And so a lot of this did come from Pinellas already. Yeah, one thing I have heard of at the state level is that those counties where there's kind of a county liaison or a person who kind of is in charge of permitting and all that to help through the process, like Adam was mentioning, to the extent that we, you know, that could be part of our policy. That would be helpful and I think we would provide a lot of benefit to developers. If you're building workforce housing, then this person is assigned to you to help you with growth management, E the PPD, and all the different departments that you have to get. Fast track. Yeah, to help fast track and just really just hold the hold your hand and get it through the maze of what the county system is. Because the developer coming in from a different county, that would provide, I would think, a lot of benefit because they know they're going to be prioritized. And I. And when it reverts in it, it removes engineers things too. I mean, that staff member can then tell us where the tough points are, where those real pinch points are. Yeah. Which ones are more of just the like, you know, complaint because you want things easier, and which ones are really the pain points that are causing projects to live or die? Yeah, so staff comes back if that's part of it. I would very much be in favor of that And I'll tell you I Talked to a number of developers over my years in my when I had my firm that came into this county and looked around and went away again Yeah, but they had a person they said they had a person. Yeah, I think that's a really good idea. Yeah, okay You're on a hat are you the a? Are you all discussing any alternative ideas, any idea? When I was on A-Hack, we were talking about more about tiny homes, about Arby's, about the box, the truck, you know, the truck boxes that they were doing. That's when we started talking about these things. What are we looking at other than just building homes right now? There is a huge RV park right now in Waldo. There's another very huge one that continues to grow at least down along Lake Santa Fe. You know, are we looking at any of those possibilities for housing for us here in terms of tiny homes? I haven't heard, you know, let's talk about those kinds of communities. We're up in a community with the container homes at the budget end. Right. We have what two or three that we're doing. 20% of audience. But that's for a different concept. Share a pretty good talk. What two or three that we're doing was 27. But that's for a different concept. Chair for the attack. Correct. That's the container home. There are studio units for homeless housing on the grounds. And right now we've got one under the design. And then we'll be putting out a bid process for up to 15. Well, I know there are tiny home communities. I've seen one in Jacksonville. I'll draw up to see it. These are a block that's set up for just tiny homes. And those are for seniors. I just didn't know if we were talking about those still going forward as alternatives to the stick and stone buildings that we keep trying to put out there, because there are people who are, I mean, you can buy a trailer right now, mobile home for less than $30,000 that comes stocked, you know, that comes house. So I don't know if we are just not, you know, considering those things at all. I think the disasters that we are worried about and the codes that we're worried about often don't matter whether we've got these $300,000 homes built or an RV that's hunkered down somewhere that we could protect one way or another. Well, I'm just saying, are we looking at anything other than building? I guess I don't. I mean, I will say yes in that we have those conversations regularly depending on the project rate, but when you say looking at, I don't know what you mean. I mean, we as a board don't have any money in the affordable housing trust fund to do. I mean, we put a million dollars in there, we have like allocated all that million dollars. We have this infrastructure service which is specifically for incentivizing developers to build new units. We haven't put any other money towards this issue. So we aren't talking about, I mean, one of the things that we talked about was that we've all talked about early on, but hasn't come back to us yet is the empower coalition the idea of this energy efficiency and being able to fund more of that kind of more like what we do through shift, like home repairs and renovations and fixing existing affordable housing and making it more energy efficient by having revolving money that comes in from our renewable energy savings and things like that like we've talked about some of these things but we haven't really as a board I would say and I think it's a good conversation for our strategic planning retreat, like thought about, like, that's what we talked about. Right, where are those, like, funding streams that could, like you're saying, like the ad volume tax specifically from affordable housing, going into the affordable housing trust fund. The, you know, rebates that we get from solar, going into the affordable housing trust fund, where are going into a fund for rent, rehabilitation of energy efficiency stuff. Like, where do we get the money? But I will say that tiny homes, we had some conversation about tiny homes while back and what the development community and the building community told us was that because of what you're talking about, because of the permit cost, because of the processes and the cost of hooking up utilities and the cost of getting a ground ready for development. A tiny home, if it's stick built, doesn't cost a whole lot less than a large home. The cost of the kitchen, the cost of the bathroom, the cost of the amenities that go into a place don't change whether that room is 10 by 6 or 10 by 16. Even if they're building it all at the same time and all of these things are being built at the same time. I will tell you, Mary Helen, if you are interested in tiny homes, take a drive out to Williston and visit a place called Shed Ranch where they are building 16 or 14 by 20 foot buildings that meet all the housing specifications and they sell them for 20 to $30,000. They can be renovated to or be built on the insides. This is just the box. And so you have to add the kitchen and the bathroom and everything. But basically you can have a tiny home, tiny house for $50,000. But as Anna said, you still have to go and connect to power, connect to sewer, connect to water. And, you know, if you're building a community at the same time. Right. But I agree. There is like economy of scale there, but it gets to be really expensive to do that. And I would love to see you. I mean, to that end, I would love to see us. Oh, that end, I would love to see us, we have a sheet of property to see us, we could try one of those projects. We could sort of once we see because of these container homes, we could do something like that with our own. If we had funding mechanism to do this with the projects, the other thing we can do, which isn't, nobody's really using A to use in the county, unfortunately right now. I would just I would see it like pick up steam, but the city just did a pretty innovative thing in creating ready-made plans for 80 years and they're like already ready pre-approved and so they meet floor building code they meet all the wreck and it makes it really affordable for somebody to build because they can just grab those plans and they can get through their permitting process and we can adopt those same plans so that we have permitting ready ADU plans. I mean it's a small thing but those small things are not. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah so we can adopt their ADU. Yeah it's developing a streamlined permitting process so that smaller homes can be built quickly. For the same thing with these particular products like they just had it. Yeah, to adopt those cities. I would like to look at them first but yeah. They're great. I've got one that's a magnificently built. I'll show you. I can direct you to. Okay. That's a friend of mine. It's moved up here by me. It just built right by the first method discharge. If you want to walk past there in that old neighborhood, you can slide through your check. OK. We designed tons of ADUs that are in this county, that are around. But they're just, I think, making it easy is really yet. And I think if we do put things on this treated property, we should put ADUs as part of the house. Yeah, I mean, we should be putting, We could put tiny homes, we could put condos, we could put multi-family, I mean most of us. Anytime we should put eight years as part of the house. Yeah, I mean, we should be putting, we can put tiny homes, we can put condos, we can put molding family, we can put... And so we can put... This is what I've been waiting for. You know, we were talking about these 300,000, but not here today. Not here today. This is what I wanted to hear today, you know, because I haven't been on a hack since you all like on it, you know, I've just left it in your old good hands. But I was the wild child in that group, you know, I've just left it in your all's good hands. But I was the wild child in that group, you know, in terms of chariot eagle down in O'Calla, they make them right there. I don't know if you've seen chariot eagle, but they've got amazing little units down there, you know. There's a lot of places that are building really nice products that are affordable. And Neko, they were there was a seller there that had those things you put up in a day. Some of those don't meet Florida code I guess I will say that I am not and just investing in things that depreciate I mentioned that they've been investing in things that up-per-shade like I don't want that's investing in RVs and Mobile homes that are just gonna depreciate and that are really difficult to be afforded. Because women like storm codes and eventually that's going to happen. That's not there. There are many people on the big. That's what you see, but eventually it will. The old houses do eventually. That's what I was going to say. They're built now to 30 years, right? A lot of these buildings. There's nothing spilt its foot or the yields anymore. You're lucky. Nothing spilt the 30 years anymore. Nothing. It's less than that. Yeah. That's what I mean. Even these buildings that we're seeing, you know, these multi-family places that we're seeing, they're giving us a lifespan of 30 years. So, you know, there's a trailer on an RV park, not a trailer,, a mobile home park across from the Wal-Mart, out on 39. Is it no Wal-Doh Road? Wal-Doh Road. It's all Wal-Doh Road. It's all Wal-Doh Road. You know, they've done a nice job of trying to make it feel like a community there too. So you know, they do go down, they do go down, but they also do not. It's basically Wal. Exactly. No and and then you have the Lord of Mercy. What's the place out off going towards a latch away out there on the left. Those smaller homes out there, crud and then there's a golf course. Turkey Creek. Turkey Creek. Yeah, turkey creek, Forest, and then Turkey Creek. You know, those are small units that people can afford to buy and live in and then sell out and there's a mover retirement community. But it's a community that that's what I'm saying. We have samples of small communities that we should try to. You know, the size of those houses are the same size as this. A lot of the houses were built that were built in, like in East Gainesville back in the 1950s. The exact size of the house. That's in that size house I'm talking about. Well, now to say the only reason you didn't hear that today is because this wasn't a conversation generally about affordable housing. Like it was specifically about the infrastructure service. I would be so happy to have a whole workshop on affordable housing for us to think about all the different ways, and all the programs we're already doing and how they, but that's why I didn't bring that stuff up. It's because we were specifically talking about the infrastructure surtax, and I just knew that there was policy direction needed for us to get these things moving, and we've been sitting on that money for almost three years now and I want to see it spent because to their point like things are changing and now we have tear up some now. things moving and we've been sitting on that money for almost three years now and I want to see it spent because to their point like things are changing and now we have tariffs and now because our customers are going up even more and now and I just I don't want to see us lose what opportunities we have to make a dent in with this money. How much is in the fund? Do we have about 50 million? About 50 million. About 5 million a year, three years. Yeah, okay. So I think we have a motion. I'd like to add that we refer to staff the review of the cities from already ADUs. You guys are okay with that. Yeah, I'm okay with that. And also, and you also are reviewing Orange County, correct? I'm sure if I could add, we developed our plan, the Affordable Housing Plan and the application based on both Orange County and Pinellas. Those are the two that we modeled after. Okay, perfect. What was your original motion? Can we give? Yeah. That sat takes the comments that they heard from today and bring back recommendations for us to give you some policy directions. Quite to reaffirm. Here for re-reduing these applications so that we can put out another either invitation to the ITN or I think we have it. I think it's just criteria to review the applications that come in. Yeah, because we're already on the applications. It's just sort of like, I don't know, I think the applications are too general is what we were going to see. We may need some more, right? We need some clarification on certain projects projects and we may need to update with additional information that they provide us. But in that criteria, we also need to go out at the same time we put that so they knew what we were looking for. Yes. I think that the developers will need to understand what are the rules we're playing under so they can get to the other projects. We have a motion. Who made the second? Alright, we've had discussion to the motion. Those in favor of the motion vote by the sign of eye. Hi. Does it pose? Yeah, we're curious. You're good. I just want to dance. We're going to come. One clarification. Sure. Originally when you talked, it was home ownership. And so that's where we were looking at the shared equity model. And in both cases, we were looking at the share equity model. Originally when you talked it was home ownership and so that's where we were looking at the shared equity model. And in both home ownership and in rental, it could be any kind of a project. It could be tiny homes. It could be, we didn't restrict what the home would be, except that it would be meat code. I just want to clarify. Today I heard rental. I just, yeah. I mean, we don't want want to limit it but I think our goal is to fill the gaps where there needed. Most of these gaps are in the rental stock. I think we're all still in a clarification. So you want us to look now at rental units as opposed to building of rental units as opposed to home ownership. I think that being able to assist not the restriction. I guess I feel this is what I feel like keeps happening. I'm not trying to be mean to staff, but like I feel like we keep getting in these ultimatums where we ask and ask a question and we say something in the one context. And then it gets spread across every program. And I guess when we were talking about the homeownership thing, I think we were talking about generally speaking with affordable housing. Like our goal is to try to increase the opportunities for homeownership so that people can gain an asset and increase their family's wealth. But like when it comes to specific projects like this one. No, these projects are homeownership. You guys, none of them are, I mean, we're not getting homeownership because that's not the gap and that's not where like a lot of it's not what's cost effective right now. Right. Exactly. But there may be some. I wouldn't want to limit this program. I guess what I'm saying to if there was some, somebody building tiny for sale that wanted to come and apply. I wouldn't want to limit their application. No, I mean, but... And I understand that, but when you're asking us to come back with criteria, we do need to know what your focus is because of further. Providing new recommendations, and we need to bring something back to you, we need to know what that focus is so we can say, we're prioritizing this application as higher or bringing back this recommendation because that's your priority. 30 to 50 percent of AMI retails for extended period time greater than 10 years I presume but whatever the statute allows this highest as long as possible. Yeah. It's got a pencil out. Yeah I mean that's the thing it's got a pencil. Yeah. But there are two different lanes you're talking about though. One is rental and one is housing. Are there two different requirements then? Because I get confused just listening to all because this is not my strength. So I'm learning from all of you as you talk. And I'm not sure, you know, I can understand how stationary to be confused about what it is because I'm not even sure what it is. Investors building or developer building projects that can then be rented out to folks. Okay. Out of four rule rates. Out of four rule rates that mean 30 to 60% of AMI. Okay, but where's the ownership part comes in? There isn't a lot. No, no, no. No, this project. Not on this one. Okay. From this pot of money. Okay, I know there are this part of money on this part of this I got it. this project. Not on this one. OK. From this pot of money. On this pot of money. This pot of money. OK. So it's only rents from this pot of money. This pot of money right now. OK. I can change it. It's surtax money filling new units. There's so much information that goes from person to person to person that I get lost. And so I try very quietly just to sit and listen to see if I can figure it out but you know if we are worried about staff getting the information I'm sure they're much more intense. What else do you got it? Yeah if I say Mr. Chair regarding the staff analysis and so what my understanding of growth management does for development applications is very different from what housing staff would do in evaluating an application housing the bottom so what type of analysis so is this before getting the applications and inviting them for credit underwriting what type of analysis by that was that they do an actual analysis they'll just give us a summary of application. They actually do an analysis. They say like this project is in proximity to this job center and these bus lines. This project is targeting working populations that are X. This project is a cost per unit you want to have. You have some of them. And this project has this percentage, is this percentage for the developer fee? It kind of is just, it's a bit of the check box. And I think they did that with this, except that there's not the piece that sort of, those softer parts, like how, they're not softer, but like, is it near transportation? Is it near a job center? What is the other housing in the area? What is its proximity to other affordable housing units? Like are we diversifying housing in areas? You know what I'm curious about that. So that's what I want. I want you all to research what Orange County does to ensure that the fund is perpetual. That's mine. Okay, if it's alone, then bring us back. How does that work? I want to understand how does that work so that what I believe is a combination of the loan funds Return on investment and a combination of the new ad for loan funds We can develop something that is perpetual and not Yeah, that is perpetual until that's what I'm after also with regards to a financial analysis is This project is a We put in 5 million million and we're gonna get back. Yeah, this project is a, I just wanna use an example, a $43 million project, county is providing $6 million of secondary funding at an interest rate of, a competitive interest rate that goes behind the first mortgage. And that money's gonna come back to us over 30 years. It's gonna add X amount of, approximately X amount of advalorn funding, which the commission could sequester if they chose to put back into the fund. But I don't know how to answer your question, because I don't know what Orange County and others are doing, but that's what I'm. Is the same penciled out that the developer does to see this is why it works for us and then how does it work for the taxpayer? Mr. Chair then that probably goes back to a prior question we may need to ask you to cancel the allows to cancel the applications and put them back out because none of them are based on alone or any kind of revolving fun. So I don't want to cancel these three. No, I don't. I'm more interested in moving forward because... Starting a new program. Yeah, I don't want to lose attraction we've gotten from these. So maybe we just need to finish this out and evaluate these based on the criteria that we've created, minus that return on our investment. And then once we've evaluated these, we update the application now and then we update it. Yeah, we have a new rolling guidelines. And we would have a return on investment here in terms of tax. Yeah, yeah. And housing. Yeah. And housing. Yes. And I just said a second loan because that's what I heard in a comment. It doesn't have to be that. If you don't come back and say, we don't want to do a loan, we want to do equity financing. That's what these are. I'm not trying to change this criterion. I'm just throwing out. You ask me what kind of financial analysis that's what I'm looking for. I thought that way back, I mean I know we lost our person that was doing this project early, but I mean that is what I'm looking for. I guess I thought that way back. I mean, I know we lost our person that was doing this project early. But I mean, that is what I had anticipated we were going to get when we first started. Was that that person was going to be kind of like basically had an understanding of the capital stacks and how a developer puts together those capital stacks and how lie tech fits in with sale fits in the county funding fits in with other you know funding and grants that maybe there and How they put those deals together and where are leveraging our money is going to make the biggest impact and how we can do that in the strongest way Unfortunately, we lost that person and so it's been a little I think we've been kind of in flux, but that's exactly what yeah My guess is right now loans aren't going to work because the first rate on the mortgage is too high. So I think it's more equity funding, grant funding, like what these are probably. Any other clarifying questions? When will we get this back to us 60 days? It's shorting in that. As soon as we get it. So 60 days. I'm not. As soon as we get it, we will work towards 60 days. We've been after this for two and a half years. My patience is so- You think that's too long? Yes, my patience is so over it. I can't even tell you. We've been two and a half years into this program and we haven't spent a dime. But you know, it's a $56 million project and those things take time. I realized that, but we've also been spinning our wheels for quite some time. And I feel like we know what we need. We know what we've got. We've got all the parts. Like I don't know why it should, why should it take that long? That's not that long. We don't have all the parts if we don't have the people who are willing to do these projects that we're asking for. I want it next week. That's the missing piece. Next meeting. Oh, next meeting. What is it next meeting? Next meeting. Well, the first meeting in June, I guess. I mean, it's just, there's no reason why this should take so long. There's no reason. Anyway, these applications don't all necessarily meet one funding source. So there may be, we'll have to see what comes back. I mean, it's not that simple. And so we will come back and we will let you know what the analysis says we can do with three applications that are on the table without the specific set criteria from today. I mean, that's what we can do. Because they are a couple of our senior components. They have senior components versus workforce versus affordable. So there's a lot of factors in each of these applications, and they may not all come out of surtax. I mean, that's what I don't understand. Like, we got these applications. These applications already came to AAC. They came to us to approve or deny. And what did y'all do? We said, how are we supposed to know if they even meet the criteria? And that's why we're in the conversation right now. Oh, I see. Because we need some of the criteria as well. Right. And where the board wants to be. to know if they even meet the criteria. And that's why we're in the conversation we're in right now. Oh, I see. Because we need some of the criteria as well. And where the board wants to get it from. And from my perspective, we default to what Florida housing corporation kind of does. That's a safe kind of a safe place that we're leveraging what is already kind of a proven model. And to the set, these are different than that. And I might be creative, but I need Joel's recommendations kind of framed out. There's a matured thing. It'd make more sense for A. Hector to come up with a criteria you're talking about. I think you're all a lot of them. I'm not talking about what we talked about today. I mean, okay, but this, your group would do that. They gave recommendations. We did that already. We had that conversation. It was just a matter of, I think they needed policy, staff need a policy direction on things like rentals, things like rehab, things like senior versus not. That's what staff were looking for was us to say, because A-hack wasn't gonna sit there and say, this is the policy for. What did A hack like each one of these three? We didn't actually have the conversation about these three, but I think we did talk about the fact that, you know, we felt like, unless they were gonna, like we were literally gonna lose these units to for profit, and they were gonna become market rate apartments. We weren't interested in rehab. Like there have to be a really good comment for rehab. I remember that conversation being had pretty clearly like we were wanted it to be focused on new units and rental, you know, but other, you know, and of course that's really zero to 80% of the online. Like trying to get that number 1000. Rob Marks is new and a few is new. No. I mean, we didn't look at the details of these projects and make a recommendation. Oh, you did the other. Oh, my god. But if you had luxury housing that's being remodeled as a political housing, I think I would be interested in looking at that. Well, and to say what I'm saying, if it was old, right that time, you'd be a project. Yeah. Yeah. It would be kind of a new project, but they would call it a remodel. I just think don't throw it all the way, just, you know, yeah. New stock. Good for stock. And getting these, I think we move it to a hotel. New affordable housing stock. And then we've developed a policy for the last two days. Well, and also, guys, the staff is really involved at this point to have these facilities open, the motel is opened by September is amazing. So it's not like we're not doing something. They're doing a ton. I think that's the point. I think we need to make sure we're acknowledging that adding more to it, of course we're impatient. Of course we want all this housing done. Of course I wanted you guys to go look at the Edwin Jones building, but you can't. There's housing there too. So, but you know, there's frustration all over the place, but to say, to say, you know, that our staff, you know, is not moving quickly enough, I think, is probably not. There's not there, because they are high-bass. I don't think it's on me. You're high-bass. I know. I've been to in a half years Mary Helen and not being cliper Holy comment So general general public I don't think it's any. You're high. I'm not high. I've been two and a half years, Mary Helen. I'm not being high for it. I'm not being high for it. I'm not being high for it. I'm not being high for it. I'm not being high for it. I'm not being high for it. I'm not being high for it. I'm not being high for it. I'm not being high for it. It was so long that he wanted to spend it on something else. Two meetings ago. That's how long it's been. Okay. Yeah, y'all should I go down. I wanted to spend it. I know that's my point and. That's been. Okay. Yeah, y'all should I cut down. I just wanted to finish my hand. I know. That's my point. It has been too long. It's not there for us, actually. I'm not blaming that. It's all of our faults. We have general public health. Yeah, yeah. It's all of our faults. Everybody. about to shoot off a flare. I want to bring up something that you may have discussed earlier in your meeting but I was stuck in one over in City Hall, so I was late. Some months ago, you talked about selecting out things east of, did you say east of Walter Rural or or east of Mainstreet for a while and I Know that I know that way had a lot to do with the extreme objections from What's the neighborhood down there? Hollywood Azalea Trust. No, no where where legacy was gonna go at first? Actually, Azalea Trust. Yeah Lincoln mistakes. Thank you. I like it. I stayed I'm not a was part of that. But I want to errors you to think about soon. Affordable housing on the east. I think could be acceptable. One, where the neighborhood doesn't shoot a ballistic missile at you for it and two where it's mixed income. So I want to see you say, we'll do affordable housing that way, but it has to be, it has to meet the goals of mixed income and or mixed use. And where that mixed use is things that are useful for the residents, like a BPK site or a laundromat. I like it. What's this? for the residents like a B.P.K. site or a laundromat. Is this the ET York or one winner? Is that who this is? Let's congratulate Nancy Hart on her earlier award today. Oh, did you hear? Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. It was very, very gratifying. My name is Nancy Hart. I'm a retired physician from the College of Medicine and I am putting together and leading a Rump group called Housing First for Children. And I just want you to remember a few facts as you proceed with all the great work that you're doing. I'm not here to complain. I'm just here to alert you that we have over 1,000 children known to our school system who do not have a home. Just think about that for one second. Where do they go to school? How often do they attend school? If they don't regularly attend school, how do they learn to read? It's simple. It's keeping me awake at night. So you've seen me run through a few other projects. This is the one keeping me awake right now. And I just want you to remember every time you deliberate, approve a project, set some criteria for new projects, think about those women with children and how they're gonna establish an address so those kids can go to school regularly. I believe in our school system. I believe in you guys. And I think we just need to put them as high on our priority list as we have successfully veterans and single adults. But right now we're talking about mostly women with children of school age. So I just want to alert you about that. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Hart. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Hart. Thank you. Dr. Hart. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Hart. Thank you, Dr. Hart. Thank you, Dr. Hart. Thank you, Dr. Hart. Thank you, Dr. Hart. back to the board? Are there any care and commissioners comments? Now I just want to make how I'm really glad we didn't spend that money on something out. Okay, back to the board. Are there any care and conditions comments? I just want to make come on really glad we didn't spend that money on something else. Let the record reflect you. I don't even remember what it was. There's something with Public Safety though. I didn't remember that. Okay, if not,'re, we're trying to...