Good morning everyone. Good morning. I'd like to call to order City Council's Economic and Workforce Development Committee meeting for today April 24th, 2025. Could we have a roll call please? Drisco. Here. Vic Sanders. Floyd. Givens. Gertis. Here. And we are a quorum. Thank you. Committee members, we have an agenda before us for today's meeting. All in a motion for approval. Thank you. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Motion carries. Next, the approval of the February 27th, 2025 minutes, which we have in our packet. All in a motion for approval. Moveve. Thank you all in favor please say aye. Aye. Motion carries. Next up is our new business for today and we have our update on the Center for the Arts Study which has been in progress for quite some time. Excited to see what we have and have a robust discussion about that today. With that, I'll turn things over to Brian Kaper to start. Great. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, everyone. So as Chair mentioned, this is a project we've been working on for quite some time now. We're very excited to show you the progress that we've made with our consulting team ASD Sky that joins us here this morning. I'm going to walk through just a couple slides, just a level set kind of in the area, and then turn it over to John Kern, our principal with ASD Sky to walk you through some of the ideas concepts. It is important to stress that at this point in time these are all conceptual. This is very much a discussion, a starting point for a discussion with Council with this committee on ideas I will also just share we had we just came from a wonderful conversation with the Dolly and their plans moving forward and Hank is with us this morning So it's important as these organizations do their planning for the future and that we've got kind of an overall plan that ties in all these different pieces together and really makes this a key attraction for downtown, a key attraction for our community. So with that, just a little background, this area really is zoned by first Avenue South to Fifth Avenue South, first street to the water. The first project in this area was the Mahaffee Theatre which opened in 1965, and that includes the garage, the center for the arts plaza and surface parking. Over time, there's been changes. The Bayfront Center Arena, which was located in that area was removed in December of 2004. Mahaffee Theatre was renovated in 2005 2006. And the unhappy seeks to expand their entry and drop off areas for the future. The Dalley Museum established their location in this area in 2011. And as mentioned, they seek to expand their museum beyond the existing structure and have plans to do so. This area is also really critical for the Firestone Grand Prix of St. Pete as well as the Tampa Bay Routes at Alling Field. And so just to orient everyone, this is looking south at the area. So we've got the Alling parking lot immediately underneath where this picture was taken. And you can see Alling in the foreground, the unhappy in the middle, and then Dalley toward the end, as you get closer to Albert Wood at Airport. So concept development, following the creation of the unhappy theater in 1965, there's just been an addition and subtraction to surrounding structures on a case-by-case basis. This area has never been master planned, and that's one thing that we are looking to do as part of this effort is to set that overall plan and identity for this area that the other organizations contribute towards. City development worked with Arc 3 Architecture in 2020 to explore alternatives and then following that vision we did a second phase to review the area with ASD Sky who's's here today. And the objectives really are to include a long-term planning horizon to satisfy the needs of all of the users in this area as well as our residents and future growth in downtown to ensure sustainable growth and management all within the context of the downtown waterfront master plan. Just a few considerations that we had for this area as well. It is an established area with established stakeholders and is projected to grow over time. There are 1100 parking spaces, both between the surface parking and the garage. The majafi is an aging structure, 45 years old. The Dalai Museum expansion plans are currently in process and that will have some implications to parking and construction space. The Mahafi theater infrastructure needs are currently in the planning stages now. Of course, every year we have the Grand Prix track and paddock areas to accommodate and then outlaying facilities while having been rehabbed, they are still somewhat dated. So before I turn it over to John, I just also would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the work of my predecessor in this Chris Ballastra. Chris really was a champion for this and really has done all of the work pushing this forward. So I just want to acknowledge his efforts to it and thank him for letting the ground work for where we are today. With that, turn it over to mr. Corrin continue the presentation. Thanks Brian appreciate it All right, so just a little bit of background of precedent We've spent many months going through a process with all of the stakeholders getting as much information as we can from each of the groups as you saw The Dali the Mahaf Mahafi, Florida Orchestra, the Grand Prix, of course the city of St. Petersburg, and taking all of those people and groups and making sure that we listened and addressed their needs as we put this plan together. So as we go through it, just a little bit of, I'm certainly, this is a very abbreviated sort of version of all of the work that we put together, but just to give you a sense of what we're dealing with. It started out with what we have been calling now phase one. So what you see up on the screen basically is the Mhaffee Theatre, the Dali, and the existing garage. And really focusing on once you remove the garage and build a new one, what could this area be? So that was really where it started. And then we were asked ultimately to look at an alternative plan, which we call phase two, which is where outlang sits essentially. This is sort of a summary sheet that sort of takes the stakeholder information and starts to put together all of the information that's actually encapsulated within the master plan. So when it starts with the city of St. Petersburg, it's again, to enhance that pedestrian experience, we're looking at a conference center that actually could potentially help with all of the waterfront hotels downtown and and attach and also help all of the facilities within the center for the arts including the Dolly as well as the Mahafi theater and what that can be could be quite an amazing sort of community center in some respects. Building a minimum of 1,100 car garage which would accommodate all of the parking that's already there and then there'd be enhanced street parking as well as we go through this. You can see Al Lang and the Rautis and the Florida Orchestra are sort of tied together with all of these components, getting information from the Mahathi, and as well as understanding the Grand Prix and all of the needs that are required there, including the fact that they're telling us that they are looking to expand. And when I say expand, expand racers basically. it would actually come to the Grand Prix. So if there was more paddock space, that would be a benefit for them as well. And of course, the Dolly, making sure that we can accommodate the current outline space for their expansion and have them sort of an integral part of every component of the center for the arts. We looked at various precedents around the country and just trying to understand the opportunity that the City of St. Petersburg has. So there were a number of parks that really focused on the arts throughout the country that we looked at. One in particular that really caught our eye was sound scapes and in Skanskip Park in Miami Beach and that was something we really saw as an opportunity for the Center for the Arts for the City of St. Petersburg to really take advantage of. Concept development. We looked at several different schemes throughout this process, but this just starts to give you a sense of the beginnings of what we were looking at. This idea of an 1,100 car garage is very big. But once you remove the existing garage, it opens up a space between the Mahaffee and the Dalai that really presents an opportunity, I think, for the city of St. Petersburg. And these were some of the early massing studies that we looked at. So there's really not necessarily architecture here, but you get a good sense of the volume of what we're dealing with and the opportunity for the green space on the complex. I mentioned that we also were asked to look at an alternate, it's like what could be done at the outlying area, whether outlying, we'd even looked at the opportunity of keeping outlying renovating and understanding that. We did go sort of take a, I guess, artistic license, and we actually saw an opportunity to build, or potentially build, an outdoor amphitheater. So get sort of this outdoor music venue connected to the center for the arts, and have this city of St. Petersburg use this space for, you know, any community activity, including the opportunity for outdoor music, basically. We also saw an opportunity potentially to tie the Florida orchestra into that. So you'll see as this develops where those possibilities lie. So as we develop both phase one and phase two, these are some early preliminary plans. You start to see the main components, minor addition, sort of VIP entry sequence for the Mahafi theater, the expansion to the Dali. You could see number four, which is really the area attached to the garage that would be the conference center. Number one is the 1100 car garage. And then in the future for phase two, we would expand the garage in other garage another 400 cars so in the end if you did phase one and phase two there's as many as 1500 cars parked in a garage and there's several areas ultimately of surface parking as well. So again these part of the early studies you start to see those masses You can see the artistic license that we started to look at where Alang is. It's an amphitheater that basically sort of looks very similar in terms of quantity of seats and volume of people. The opportunity for about 3 to 4,000 people undercover and as much as 6,000 people on berms. And we set it up where if you only had like 40 events a year on that area, you'd actually have another opportunity basically to create a significant park. The interesting thing to us for the Center for the Arts is it sort of concludes the waterfront park aspect in St. Petersburg because there is a concrete gap. And once you fill it with this sort of park connection it truly becomes the south anchor of the entire waterfront system within St. Petersburg. So this starts to go into really where we're at in terms of the current master plan. And remember master plans are live documents they're constantly evolving and changing. So here you start to see the beginnings of phase one. So you see number 14 is the 1100 car garage, number 17 is the conference center component we talked about. You see 11 and again we took artistic license in terms of trying to understand what the expansion to the dolly could be and then you see number two two, which is the Mahaffee Theater. Once that garage, the existing garage is removed, you see we've created this green space that really becomes an interesting opportunity in almost like a window straight to the water. So if you're driving down fifth and you come to this area, you no longer see a garage immediately. You'll actually see if this straight to the water. And so this is a little bit more detailed in terms of understanding what that green space can be. And you start to see the components coming together where the dolly and their expansion happens surface parking in front of the dolly, the new green space that is basically this promenade going to the water. You see the conference center of the new garage and then the Mahafi theater as well with Alang in the background. And then these are just a series of images of what this could be. So again, this is sort of a bird's eye view of what you would ultimately see from fifth. So as you come here, no more concrete garage. This would be an open vista straight to the water. This is a potential view of what the conference center could look like and could be. Again, in every component we saw an opportunity, every building and every element that we had here, an opportunity for viewing platforms, whether it's for the Grand Prix or any activity that's going on in the city. Another view, which is a bit more pedestrian, where you see that center for the arts area. In every case, if this green space became a reality, it also accommodates the paddocks for the Grand Prix as well. These are various views. So this is looking north. You see the garage. You see the Mahafi on the right. One of the things we heard from everybody was the importance of making sure we had covered walkways. So if you came from the garage, you had the ability to be protected from the rain as well as the sun. So we took advantage of that, connections to the Mahafi as well as a physical connection to the Dalai. and you start to see that. So this area where it says Center for the Arts, we would sort of assume that is really being the main drop off for both the Mahaffee as well as the Dalai essentially. So like you drop off here and then you would simply ride to the garage you see on the left. Another view of that. And then Master Plan Phase II. So as I mentioned, we were asked to look at an alternative approach to what the property we're allowing is. We felt it was important to stay within the realm of really a public park, a venue that really is complimentary to the whole center for the arts. So what you see here are a series of buildings. Number 13 is really a covered roof over thick seats or maybe just say three to 4,000 seats. Number six is actually sort of the stage area of this amphitheater, but it also has the ability to become a physical structure that could become an education center. Potentially, you could be used by the Florida Orchestra, could be used by the city in any realm for that matter. And then surrounding you see the grass, it's actually a berm, and we quantified that area. And then there's a pavilion, which you see is number 15, which would be concessions and other sort of public restrooms. And if it became an amphitheater, the opportunity for additional office space. You'll also see the sort of loop that runs through that area. When I say loop, it's that little curved road. That's a part of the Grand Prix track that currently goes through the Alang parking lot and that of course has to be maintained because it's an integral part of the Grand Prix track. And one of the things that we were careful about everything we did here was making sure that we didn't change the track at all. So if you change the race track, it becomes very complicated for the Grand Prix. So we kept it. We see it as an opportunity because it becomes potentially something that's a part of the park in the future, which could be kind of fun. And again, in this sort of overall analysis of both phase one and phase two, you see how the garage comes together. I mentioned the garage in the end could be as large as 1500,500 cars. It's four stories, basically. So it's not that big, but it is a very large structure for cars. And you can kind of see all of the components as they come together here. So an aerial view of what that piece can be. I mentioned what we saw in the waterfront sort of master plan of St. Petersburg was the concrete area of the outlying parking lot was this like sort of gap in terms of connecting all the green space along the waterfront. So you can see what we're doing here in the corner right there on the bottom left of the site. It's sort of a public pavilion and that really is sort sort of the entry into this park. So if this became an outdoor music venue, I mean, it... of the site, sort of a public pavilion, and that really is sort of the entry into this park. So if this became an outdoor music venue, I mean, you probably would only have about 40 to 50 events annually, and all of the other days of the year, it would become basically a city park for the most part. It could be used by the city in any which way you felt, you know, as an opportunity, basically. So as we go around, we'll see these various views. So this is that pavilion I mentioned, which is sort of the center of this new park. Again, it has restrooms, concessions. It could be used in many different ways. On the right is sort of the roof of what might be sort of an office complex or office space that would be used for this outdoor venue. Here's a view of that stage. The building you see sort of in the back, that's sort of rising above the stage. That was the education center. Like I said, could be used by the Florida Orchestra. And the interesting thing here that we saw as an opportunity was by placing this amphitheater in this location both the Mahaffee Theater and this potential future music venue could actually share the services on the backside of it and There's an easy connection for if the Florida orchestra was to come here They could use both this amphitheater as well as an easy connection to the Mahaffee Variering views here. So one of the things I mentioned, this is like that pavilion, which would be the entry to the park, and you kind of start to see the berms. So we saw this really interesting opportunity to create these, you know, park green spaces, but they also become, especially when it's grand pre-time, these interesting gathering spaces for people. So this whole berm could be used during race time as really just a comfortable place to hang out and watch the race. Just some views of the building, water, that's the pavilion. and then just basically an overall View of both phase one and phase two Again that aerial We were asked to really study and make sure that we accommodated the Grand Prix as well So here is really just a study that shows how the paddocks could be arranged for the Grand Prix. And in this plan, there's actually the ability for the Grand Prix to expand racing teams. So there's more paddock space in this approach than there is currently today. The reminder of where the race track is, the only change we made, and I don't have a pointer, is actually where you see the dolly and we have that main sort of drive through where we have the drop off, we just moved what's called the entry to the pit alley basically. So you see that bleacher piece, it has a direct connection right to where the race is. So that sort of darker orange is really the pit as the race cars come out. So that was one of the challenges we had to do to make sure that we accommodated that with little to no trouble for all of the other stakeholders. Some views during the grand Prix of what it might be. And you can see AST Sky is a big sponsor of the Grand Prix. We also did an economic impact. So we had Kim Lee Horne's economic feasibility group analyze the potential impact. I'm just going to do an overview, but we basically did a probable cost analysis for the whole complex. And what it means, and if you had the opportunity to review the data that's in here, it's pretty significant in terms of the potential economic impact. Again, these are probable costs. They could fluctuate greatly depending on when the projects are being done. But generally, I think these are in the realm. If you put all of phase one into one pile, you could see an overall cost. And it includes a number of different projects. So how that gets broken down and how phase one gets implemented is completely up to priority essentially. And then you can see for phase two as well and the components that are built within that. And then really just studying the economic development of every one of the stakeholders and the components here. The one thing that we did not study in great detail is really the potential impact of Phase 2. And hopefully, as this, like I mentioned, a master plan is a live document. And if it is something that needs to be explored, that benefit can also be explored as time goes on as well. So again, as we go through this, I don't wanna go through every little detail. So I thought I had some nice momentum here. I wanna bore you with these things. So as we go through here, last image, right? So the one thing we also prepared is a video just to give you a sense of how this comes together. So there's sort of two components to the video. This focuses on sort of an analysis of what phase one and phase two can look like. And at the end we just added a feature with the Grand Cove. So we're getting the entry into the garage, the opportunity for some Peter'sburg Shums in the day. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. So long that the program along the street basically would be retail. So the opportunity to really create a home in pedestrian street state environment, and then the connection from the garage into phase two and what that might be. He put some dates on here, he's give you a sense of possibilities of implementation. This tower is the magic we just appeared and come back. So now we move into a bit more fun. I just wanted to give you a sense of what it could be with the band. So you can see the paddock space, you know, how this whole area can come enhanced. You can see the way we set this on, this opportunity to use the verbs as new viewing platforms. And thank you so much for this presentation. I'm excited to see this area get redeveloped. I'm excited to see what the opportunities hold for us. I do have a couple of questions. At this point, have we engaged any residents? Have we engaged the chamber? Have we engaged the neighborhood association at all to get their input? I understand there is no master plan per se, but have we gotten feedback via survey or anything like that from residents? We were not a part of that yet. Council member, we have not to date, mainly because we really wanted to bring it to you all first. We wanted to start the dialogue here, understanding that a lot of these are generally conceptual in nature. As John mentioned, it mentioned, it is a living, breathing plan. We wanted to first receive council's feedback into elements you'd like to elements that maybe we shouldn't explore any further. Maybe some things we should look into as alternatives. And then after we have that dialogue and a little bit better understanding of where you all are. Sorry about that. That would be the next step. So we've started very early discussions with our kind of the stakeholders of the site with the Dalai with the Manhattan also want to acknowledge Ignacio Verón with us as well from the Florida Orchestra at Presidency. So we've started those conversations but we haven't gone very deep with them yet because we really wanted to hear from you all first. Gotcha, and I appreciate that information. Thank you. My next thing would be, I'd like to see more green space. I love the fact that we do have this, a Vieira that runs out from the parking space out to the water. I think it really encompasses our waterfront. I love the idea for the center for the arts. We are the arts destination, the arts capital of the southeast. I think no better way to showcase that. But I would like to see us showcase some of our local artists. Maybe in that green space that might be a nice area to put some sculptures. Along some of the walls I'd like to see some murals from our local artists as well. I want to prioritize green infrastructure. I think this is a great opportunity for us to go sustainable. I'd like to see green roofs, green walls, any way that we can become more sustainable here. I would love to see some of the rooftop space maybe at the Dalaii Reserve for some outdoor event venues. Similar to some other projects that are occurring across the city. I think as we go vertical, we can't go out so that's a great way to maybe incorporate some outdoor event space and increase our revenue as well. I'd also love to see more more urban forestry. I want to see the biodiversity throughout this project. I love that there is highly concentrated green areas but I want to make sure that we have some native plants there as well. I think that's a great opportunity for us as well to go ecologically diverse. I'm talking about retail. I would like to see us approach some of those vendors who rent it booths out at the pier when that project took off five years ago, right? Maybe they're at that point where they're ready for a brick and mortar. I don't know what that retail space will look like. I hope hopefully you can explain that a little bit if you're prepared. Are there going to be multiple spots? How many spots are we going to have? What is the square footage you look like? Can we talk about that a little bit? Sure. It's very early in terms of exactly how it's broken down. I think we have as much as 36 if you did all two phases. It could be as much as 36,000 square feet of retail space. So as landlord, the city could divide that in any which way they want. So there's a number of opportunities on, it could be as small as 1,000 square feet and as large as 15,000 square feet. So there's a tremendous opportunity there for really flexibility. And it's's good to be nimble because I think there might also be an opportunity for some office space here. You know, that's something that we're sure to have across St. Petersburg, that class A office space. I'd like to see a floor reserve for that. And if we can talk about the conference center a little bit, what does the square footage look like? Multiple floors? Yeah, so we're showing approximately 65,000 square feet. It's essentially four floors sort of matching the garage, but they're taller floors. So in the end, it's probably about really more like three levels, essentially, compared to the garage, which would have technically five levels of garage. But you know, depending on what the program ends up being for that conference center, it's just sort of a placeholder, but it could easily expand up, even potentially expand your heart's on. So I think when we were talking about this, we were talking about anywhere between 50 and 80,000 square feet so we kind of met in the middle. So that's 65. So that's what you're seeing on the screen right now. Right, Joe. And if that becomes a reality and really becomes a significant project, the program aspect, figuring out exactly what those components are, those are yet to come. But it's a placeholder on a master plan that I think gives the city an opportunity to really start thinking about that. What it should be. Gotcha, I appreciate that. I really like the idea of the Outdoor Ampitheater, but how do you justify having two outdoor amphitheaters just blocks away from each other? We have Williams Park right here, which is desperately overdue for renovation. Why would we put a second out door amphitheater just blocks away when we have one that could be facelift? Well I think this this one is sort of set up and what we put down on paper and design is really I'd call it a professional music venue basically. So this could accommodate all the needs. It would be a very easy comparison to the sound in Clearwater, but way better. It's the work. It's the work. And everything in St. Peter's battered in Clearwater, right? And Bruce Rector is busing my phone right now. Madam Chair, those are all my questions. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Hey, remember, Figsanders. Thank you. Well, thank you for the presentation. And everything looks absolutely beautiful. Some of my questions and comments are basic. The 1100 in you're talking to someone that serves on the ADA side of a lot of things. The 1100 parking spaces. How many of those and I know that this may be detailed and haven't been decided, but have we had the conversation of how many would actually be valid with assistance parking. I don't want us to lose the, we want to make it accessible to everybody and just having said it's parking spaces. I don't know, you know, how some people would actually want to look at being ADA compliant on that. But I want to find out about the valley numbers and how our handicapped citizens, what have access to it. I'm super, super super super excited about the conference center and the green space. You know I agree the green space would definitely be a draw and I'm excited about that. When you showed the conference center it was glass galore. We just went through some hurricanes. I want to know that what are the plans for hurricane storm? What does a potential disaster looks like with that particular design? The technology today and what we're doing in buildings, the glass technologies, fairly significant. For instance, we're working in completing the Largo City Hall right now, which is primarily glass. And it's highly packed glazing that can meet 145 mile an hour early in the space. Okay, but they're not located right there on the coast, right? They're next to the shore. They're not there. No. The location isn't the same. So those are not apples to apple. Well, I think it meets code and in fact in some cases is greater than code. So like I... the location isn't the same. So those are not apples to apples. Well, I think it meets code, and in fact, in some cases is greater than code. So basically the technology for glass buildings is significant enough where we'd meet all of the wind loads and be better than required by law. So glass may look like it's a concern, but I think it, you know, from what we've been doing in this industry, it's not. I'm pretty comfortable with that kind of approach. Okay, thank you for that. I'm going back to the parking, I feel to ask about that. When I looked at the layout, and when we look at the distance between the parking, which is pretty much centered between all three, the Mahaffee, the Dolly, and the park, the distance for our handicap residents, and I just had this huge conversation about it last week, which is why it is a flag for me. I appreciate the covered walkways, but the distance. The distance, if we don't, if they're not residents with the scooters, the walking was very detrimental at this conference for them. And so I did not see specified handicap parking next to each building. That would be easily accessible for our constituents with ADA issues. And so I just wanted to put that out there that will be something that I look for to make it easy for them to access all of them. I appreciate that 11 on just space garage, but if it's going to be difficult for certain constituents to utilize all three because of the distance of each, that will be a concern for me. And I know this may be irrelevant, but then not, I'm going to ask. I was looking at the layout, which is beautiful. And I know that we're getting ready to go through our arena updates and things like that. long term have we thought about how this is going to ask. I was looking at the layout, which is beautiful. And I know that we're getting ready to go through our marina updates and things like that. Long term, have we thought about how this is going to impact our marina update project? We have started to explore that. Again, because this is all conceptual. You know, we don't have to that level of detail yet where we can definitively say this building is going to go here and it's going to look like this or this area will become a park. So while we acknowledge that all of these things need to work together very well, exactly how that happens yet has not been to turn. Okay. Okay, well thank you so much for this. These are some very beautiful, sexual designs that I'm looking forward to it. Thank you, Chair. Council Chair Gertis. Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you for the presentation. Very much appreciate. I just have a couple of questions. I'll go to one of the first slides where it was stakeholder feedback and it said, the half he does not want to host the race headquarters. Can you talk a little bit about that? Is that, yeah, that would be great. Thank you, Beth. Sure. It's very high up there. Beth here indeed, Madam General Director of the City Development Administration. So right now, the Haffee, during race week, the Mahaffee hosts the media. They host obviously the city hospitality area. They host a suite that's sold by the Grand Prix. They previously had hosted some meetings and things in the theater proper. I don't think they've done that in the last couple of years. But that's not something necessarily that big three is a fan of. This would give them, this would give the Grand Prix alternate space to be in. It certainly doesn't mean that we would make that happen, but it's John, as John mentioned, he was listening to all of the feedback from all of the stakeholders and really trying to address the things that they asked for and the things that were concerning to them. So by providing more space with the conference center or in phase two with the separate building, it would provide potentially some alternate space if needed. Okay, thank you. Sure. Can we go to the slide where it shows the paddocks on race day? Give me a minute. Yeah, either one. The next one is actually probably better. And so I noticed you have paddocks on green space. Did we get any feedback from the Grand Prix about? Because cars will roll up to those in between races. Did we get any feedback on that? We haven't gone to the detail of it. I didn't know if we had talked about that at all. No, but we feel confident you can stabilize the grass to make it support that and deal with it on a daily basis. That would be the intent. Yeah, I wasn't so much worried about the grass. I think I think we've learned the city of St.P. has learned how to figure out grass with all of the things we host on our waterfront. But I was more worried about how do the drivers feel about bringing their cars on the grass? Is what I was kind of more concerned with. Anyway, if that's too far down the road, I'm not concerned about it right now. It's just something to think about. And I do think, correct me if I'm wrong, but I do think some of that is also contemplated as the team hospitality areas as well. Not all mentioned paddock, but you know how the team hospitality areas are kind of in that loading dock space of of my happy. Yeah, some of them would be like closer to airport park and things like that that you're talking about bringing those down here like the McLaren 10 is up by airport park. If I may the hospitality areas and I'll get up and show you are typically not and this can you go to the area for me? Okay. I'll talk about it. I'll just give my bearings. So the hospitality areas, when you walk into the Grand Prix as you're walking kind of into the main Mahaffee Drive-in, the hot team hospitality areas are kind of in that loading box. Space now, that's where they have an importions of the surface lot. That's not where their cars are, but that's where you see like the firestone or anndraady green, that's where they have their kitchens and they have their, that's everything. So I think it's contemplated, all of that was mapped out. So you see some of that in here, but it will work with Kevin Savory and Kim Green to make sure we can accommodate everything that they need. No, that makes sense. I appreciate that. Okay. So, talked about the thank you Councilmember Gibbons for the clarification on square footage for the convention center. So, we talked about, again, I know it's big picture right now, 65,000 square feet. Did we get any feedback from visiting St.P. Clearwater so far, or is that kind of down the road too? I think we've got again we we worked with visit St. P clear water over the last few years and that 50 to 80,000 was a number that was kind of the need that was the need now that certainly may have changed a bit over time but will but yes that's the number that they we had talked I just want to make sure we're keeping lines of communication open with them. Obviously, that's a big one. And it certainly continues to be a conversation at TDC meetings when we're talking about meetings face. Let me start here. I think this is absolutely gorgeous. I love the idea of this, especially phase one. I'm really struggling with phase two. And I'm just giving you my feedback because I know that's why we're here. I'm struggling with totally removing Allang Stadium, a stadium in which is 80 years old with a massive amount of history. And especially when we're contemplating the future of the historic gas plant and what that might look like, where we are currently. And so, you know, I'm going to give Vice-Share Hanoots and Kudos, I mean, Vice-ShareHenowitz fought hard on historic gas plan. Now we're talking about spending half of that same amount to get rid of a historic, what I consider a historic place. And so I'm an economic impact of 40 to 50 times. It's a much harder argument I have to make in that conversation. And so as much as I think it's gorgeous, I would much rather retrofit Allang Stadium and keep that historic place and have that tie-in of music and amphitheater and I think about to Councilmember Gibbons' point, I think about there's's the straws, and they've got an amphitheater, not a block away, on the river that they can use, and the straws doesn't struggle to get venues. And so I'm totally, I would love to have outdoor music like the sound, but I would love to use the shell of Alang. I don't want to get rid of that history. You're talking about, I mean, I could go for hours on what's happened there. And so I'm struggling very hard to spend that much money for 40 or 50 times a year when we could turn Alang into a park and retrofit it and use it 40 or 50 times a year And then maybe still be able to use sports venues inside of a lane as well. This does not contemplate that. I get it's the center for the arts But, you know, versatility is not a bad thing. And so I certainly don't want to be negative but that's the the biggest part I'm struggling with. That's a massive amount of money to get rid of it. What I consider an asset, and I would love to see, I would love for us to contemplate keeping it and having that type of venue. Otherwise, this is phenomenal. I love this. I think this is exactly, I just have been a proponent of keeping our length for the last three years, why I've been here. I'm just not sure that that's going to change for me. And so I may be in the minority there. I don't know, but that's just kind of my feelings on it. You know, I just wanted to say something, because I mentioned that we did study that. Yeah. And it's still out there. You could still do that. As we went through this process, we just decided as a team, let's go down this path. Yeah, I'm glad we're exploring it. I'm glad we're exploring it. Huh? out there. I mean, you could still do that. As we went through this process, we just decided as a team, let's go down this path. Yeah, I'm glad we're exploring it. I'm glad we're exploring it. I'm just getting the point of it today was to get the feedback and I'm saying when I look at it versus the price tag 40 or 50 times, I'd rather keep it. That's where I'm at. So, okay, I think that's all I I had. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Councilmember Floyd. Thank you. Yeah, I have just a few quick things, but I can pick up. I was going to mention just how I appreciate reaching out to core partners on this. You mentioned the Florida Orchestra multiple times, and that's one of my concerns. Make sure that they're bought into this. And the Dolly, of course. But then, yeah, to see Al Lange go away, there's a third partner that's involved in this, which is the raise in rowdies and like they seems like they just weren't included at all. Like I just wanted you all to speak to that a little bit. Well, I don't know that John has spoken with. I've spoken with the rowdies at length and we have actually been working with them on a potential agreement extension or renewing their agreement. So they know that this presentation is happening today and they also know that this is a visioning session. This is not nobody's making a decision to get rid of the stadium. That's not happening. It's just a long term. What could it be? So I've had multiple discussions with Ryan Helfrick, the president of the Routies. And so they're involved and they're aware. But again, this is not, and that's why it's also listed as a phase two. It's not even necessarily something that we would be contemplating any time in the near future, just what kind of, you know, to get the feedback from you all? Yeah, and I'm not saying, I mean, I think, uh, chair, uh, Gurdys was very clear in what he was saying. Like, I'm not saying, I'm not trying to imply anything. I just wondered what the thought process was, uh, for like, what seems like a major partner there, not to be like their future, not to be implicated in this. But I'm open to the discussion, of course. And then something else real quick is the retail and then the green space that's sort of like the view to the Waterfront And yeah, sure we can do this like I know this is what y'all are thinking about this But this is where my mind goes right away for both of those things So first we'll start with the green space since it's up here Just like what it looks like to have that activated and used throughout the year when there's not events, it is at the end of our waterfront. And so it's not something that's passed through, like actively like further north. Just making sure we're still keeping that activated and like used constantly so that it's a place where Um that it's a place where people are actually gathering. I'm sure that's what you all have thought about, but I just wanted to add my voice to that. And specifically thinking about it as an alternative spot for the Saturday morning market. Okay. Yeah, I guess, yeah, that makes perfect sense, yeah. And then that kind of goes for the retail as well Is that like because that's down at the end? Like it's not something that on a regular basis like there's just not as much foot traffic down there There's other stuff and like especially if the city is gonna own it which um Like you know, I love the city to own things um You know, but we money like, and we need those business, like, we need to make our money, we want those businesses to be successful. Just thinking about what it means to like, put retail in this area where the foot traffic's not as heavy as further north. Um, that's something I wanted to make sure was highlighted. Um, and then, you know, I'll go back and end, because it was kind of what I wanted to do the first place, is like say, yeah, thank you for mentioning the Florida Orcasura a few times. I want to make sure that there are future secure here. And that reminds me, and this is just tangentially related. So not for the presentation I saw. And I think chairs probably aware this, more aware this like that the Florida Orchestra applied for some support from the TDC for the Mahaffee and was denied. And then there was a comment, I think, from one of the commissioners that was like, maybe if the city applied on their behalf. And so I'd be interested in having a conversation about that as well. And we continue to have those discussions. I think it really was a timing issue. I think Ignacio would perhaps agree with that. It was a timing issue. We were working on this center for the Arts Master Plan and we certainly are incorporating room for the orchestra into this plan. We want them to be there. Okay. Okay, because just like the way that people are like rabid fans of other things, I'm a big fan of the orchestra. I'll say it that way. Yeah. Thank you, committee chair. All right, thank you. Council Vice Chair Hanowitz. Thank you, chair. And first of all, thank you for all your work on these conceptual, conceptual plans. We'd have to find $161 million for it, so we are a long ways from there. So I think it's fantastic. I will tell you when I look at this, one of the things that was mentioned that hasn't been talked about was the Soundscape Park. And I went to it. I went to it in my maybe it was fantastic. When I see that I see I see a Soundscape Park. I see a Soundscape Park between my half-feet and Dalie. That is basically video and sound amplification that you can have both for the orchestra, the Dalai could do exhibits, art exhibits through video and you can absolutely, I mean it's just, I went to it and it was so amazing to sit there and watch the orchestra. I was the new world symphony and have a picnic and it was beautiful. And it not only opens up the symphony to people that can actually go and pay, but people that can go outdoor and actually listen to the symphony. So in talking about activating space, you can have cinema, you can have other forms of art that you could do. It would be mind blowing. And so I think there is a huge opportunity for that there. And have you gone to it? Have you visited? OK. I told everybody. Well, it is. But I told the story. I actually saw the movie Fantasia there. Oh, that's amazing. Unbelievable. And the sound was spectacular. It was amazing. It was amazing. So sound system is probably the biggest expense there. Because it's the pipes that wrap around. But yeah, we thought about that. This whole green space could become an extension of the dolly, an extension of music. There's so many great opportunities. So many mentions sculpture too. I could see sculpture finding its way in here. Just to be a great place to just walk around and experience some great stuff. Yeah, to me, it would actually connect both in a way that people would not even imagine how it could be connected. And so I think that would be fantastic. So, you know, phase one, I think lots of great conversations to have on phase one, obviously you're talking to all the stakeholders, which is fantastic. So I'm not really concerned about all the little details. I'm sure that's all going to be worked out in phase two. I mean, long way ahead, lots of questions that need answers. And but here's the. I like alternatives, because you don't know if your first alternative doesn't work, so you may have it need a second alternative. So we have to figure out those things, but to share Gertis' point, we do have a facility there that has historic value, and that has to be considered. But I think we need to kind of, I think we all know we have to kind of look in the future and see what happens with a different, with a historic gas plant and the team and everything. And I think that's going to become clear that picture. But I don't like having that conversation about what could be there because you don't know what the future brings. So I think it's always a good conversation to have. So thank you all for everything and I think it's fantastic. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Councillor Member Harding. Thank you, Chair. You're really good work done. Really a project worth looking at and you all have done amazing. I appreciate Councilmember Floyd advocating for the Florida Orchestra and I appreciate Ignacio being here today. I like the idea of creating home for them as part of this project on a personal note. Question about discussion that went into. When we build for the greater good communal things like the Roughty Stadium or an amphitheater, it is obviously not its best use. We use it 40 days a year. It's at something the rest of the time. I know that the trap originally was built with the stands moved and at some point it was used for arena football and it had multiple uses, it just didn't work out that way. How did the discussion progress or were there considerations for, or in the that you all did going into this and to Chair Gertis' point and Council Member Floyd, you know, the baseball stadium. It's actually kind of shaped like an amphitheater. Is there more that we could do with that space to activate it on more days, or how did that discussion go? Or are there other options that we looked at? And this is what you like so far. Well, I would say we didn't have in-depth discussions. We did talk about it. We talked about potentially retrofitting it so it could be used as multiple, you know, for multiple purposes, absolutely. And it has been, even with the routies there, it's been used for concerts. Much like Tropicana Field, you know, with their turf that became impossible to move those stands with the turf installed, with the soccer team. They're very protective of their grass during season, understandably. So there's some limitations, but certainly we had those discussions and we really directed ASD Sky to sort of think bigger and broader, not closing the door to any type of retro fit or remodel of Allang Stadium. We know that that's an option that would certainly be on the table. I think it's important to note that as we've said, there is definitely an opportunity to keep out like there's no question about it and I think you can make it even an interesting and fun park with that facility being there. If you retrofit it and make it you know useful for another 25 to 50 years, you do have to spend money in there as well right so there's a there's a cost balance you for any of the things that we do. But if Alleyn State, I think we could still make a really extraordinary park, especially if we were able to get rid of the parking, we're used the new garage really to accommodate that. Then all of a sudden, it becomes a completely different place, even with Alleyn City. And we did look at different expansion possibilities and you know understanding what that scope needs to be that's another journey that we will take for sure. Thank you. Mahafi coming towards the end of its useful life. How did that fit into the discussion and I apologize. I mean I'm sorry I don't mean to interrupt, but I believe it was the Mahafi garage, not the Mahafi itself. Correct. It's the Mahafi garage. But to your point, Mahafi also, it's 20 plus years since its last renovation. So it certainly does need, and not everything was renovated or replaced at that time. So there are certainly absolutely capital needs for the Mahaffee Theatre. So you know this is this you know this sort of assumes that we would continue to to maintain and enhance the Mahaffee Theatre and use it as you know our performing arts center. Okay. Yeah. But you're right council chair. And that was my one of the issues. Is that building has been around longer, we put money into it. But in terms of this project completion, somewhere along the lines in there, I'm happy it's going to need some work as well. Yes. Correct. The Bayshore, as Bayshore wraps around this property to the east, as a roadway, it's not really that important with the exception of the race. And so my two questions are any thoughts of, this incredible park that we're going to build separates from the more incredible waterfront property by that road. And traffic wise, I don't know, I spend a lot of time down there, but it doesn't seem like it's that necessary of a roadway for the city structure. It needs to be there for the St. Pete Grand Prix. But any thoughts on, is it, could we integrate the park the road and the waterfront during times when the race isn't here? That wasn't necessarily contemplated in this. And if I recall in previous studies, I believe, and it may not be the same. There's more traffic there. I know we've done some traffic studies than even I would think. But that's certainly something we could look at moving forward if that's a possibility. I know kind of all of Bayshore has been looked at over time. Right. You know. And so around the corner down to the south of the dolly, there's a piece of Bayshore between the dolly and the airport that is not part of the race course. And it is, and it separates that piece of property that we made into a park, that triangle, that's to the north of the airport, that we really, we turn it into a park, because we got nothing else to do, that it was the left over the piece. Not so few of you. Yeah. And in that consideration, is it worth looking at, what if we just get rid of that piece of Bayshore if we're not going to dot dot dot and to some degree integrate that East West piece of property. Well, include that in our manager. Thank you very much. There's a piece of roadway that is on the northwest that we leave because it's part of the race, the little curve. It is interesting that we don't have a big race here. There's nothing really that showcases the race when the race isn't happening. If that road interrupts your project, if not for the race, so we're going to leave it there, is it worth doing anything? And I only pick on this piece of roadway because it's not its best use for the exception of the race. Is there anything worth doing that showcases the race throughout the year? Dress it up like a piece of a grand pre-race way, or something that shows visitors that, hey, this is part of a race way. You should pay attention to this when it comes around or if you're a fan or whatever, or it is a museum, it's not the right word. It's a piece of property that showcases what this is. I mean, it's kind of cool to stand on a raceway. It looks like a raceway. That's a great idea. I don't know that we did not think of that. Well, we kept it. And we were trying to enhance it so that we make it part of the park. So you can walk on it. It could be closed from traffic in our images. You see cars on it, but they don't have to be there. We want it to be a part of the whole walking experience. I agree. In my point was, do we, whatever it looks like during the race minus all the carcades, do we do something like that that showcases that the Grand Prix is here? Yeah. Because it really, it has become a race, has become an integral part of the city. So when I do something with it, I apologize, it was an awful lot of information that you all presented, it's pretty awesome. Did we, and I know this is down the road, we're just looking at conceptual. Did we talk about the local artists' population? And including, is there room for a, is there room to do something with local artists? To, to, to, Councilman Reffloy talked about this in the beginning. They're all the community, not the big part of the community, the museums, the Dolly, but the local artists. There's not a place that is a showcase. And there are storefronts throughout the city. There's a great place on Central, but there's not a big place that showcases and sells or to what extent, and I'm looking for a word, I'm not there is one, but that showcases and sells local artists, a living expo hall that changes constantly is available to local artists in some way. Is it part of the consideration, or can we? It has not been to date, but it certainly can be. Yeah, I mean, we have talked about, as Council member gave, given's mentioned, about, you know, including art and local art in the overall plan. It just, we're not at the point where that's reflected on the drawings, but yes. We can certainly get content. I enjoyed this presentation. This is better than I had envisioned. I think you've done great work and I greatly appreciate it and look forward to what it's going to look like. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. I'm going to go ahead and take my turn before we go to round two. Thank you very much for the presentation and for all of the work that you've done on this. I appreciate this as a concept and at this point in the game, so early on, you're kind of throwing in all the possibilities, right? Kind of like when we do our budget priorities workshop at the beginning of the year, it's like everything that we can think of and then the numbers come out and the reality sets in and we figure out what we can actually afford. So I like looking at this, but I do have quite a bit to weigh in on here. And I want to get the tough stuff out of the way first. The conference center is a concern to me for a couple of reasons. First, back when we worked on the downtown Waterfront master plan, a hotel and conference center was included in the concepts and made it pretty far along, but ultimately it was not included in the downtown waterfront master plan. The downtown waterfront master plan still exists and it is still in effect. There was a lot of pushback on that. And I know it's been a minute since we did that plan, but in the updates that have followed, I don't think there has been a resurfacing of that possibility. And Brian Keper may have been involved in some of the meetings that the chamber does once in a while to check in on the plan and can say otherwise, if that's the case, but I just want us to be careful as we continue that conversation. The other side of that is that more recently, More recently, there was great discussion about having a conference center as part of the historic gas plant redevelopment that gives space to go up to 100,000 square feet or more if we want and we haven't even started new conversations about what might happen there. So, given this look, and there was a mention about how it would help hotels downtown, all of the hotels downtown are pretty much maxed out all the time. So we don't have an occupancy problem with our hotels that are in that area. In fact, we would have to look at where would we put another one in order to accommodate and attract the kinds of conferences that we want to come there. So, and Chair Gert is probably knows this quite well from being on TDC about the logistics and the mechanics and the thought process that has to go into not only whether or not you need a conference center how big it is but where it's located. So I would caution us on going too far down that road before we have other conversations and talk to other stakeholders. other other piece, which I really appreciate, Council Chair Gertis' comments on the amphitheater, that made my eye twitch a little bit because I can't imagine not having Alling Stadium. I can't imagine not having the routies. And I know that we are talking with them about the extension. And I think we're limited in how far we can go with the amphitheater idea as it is suggested here. However, I remember some pretty cool concerts that have taken place at Alling Stadium in the past. And one of the things I remember having a great conversation with Chris Ballestra at one point about having a movable stage set, like an amphitheater, that can be set up without too much hassle. And I believe widely expensive was a comment that I got back from Chris. However, I have a feeling that that might be cheaper than this. And also would give us that flexibility that we want so that we can have soccer and song whenever we want at Alling Stadium. So I think there's a meat in the middle thing here that actually creates an even better benefit for us in that spot. So I would love to explore that opportunity. And I hope that as you continue speaking with the Ratties organization about the contract, that the desire to have more entertainment there, more going to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to at doing a lot more. Understood. So yeah, just like we don't want them a half year to be dark, you know, five days a week and only open two days a week, right? Okay. So those are the two things that I'm, the two big things that I'm really not sure about. One thing I wanted to ask was, was FAA height limitations considered as part of these concepts like with the parking garage? I believe so, yeah. I know that was, I think that was in the early discussions with Chris, so that's not a discussion that I've had, but those were in the early discussions. Okay. And we're not hired in the proscenium, in the maafi, in any structure at the moment. Okay. So is four levels the maximum height for FAA? I have to check on that. I'll check on that. Okay. If not, I would like to... I think you could go... You could go a little higher. go a little bit hard, what I'd like to see is a rooftop that, as someone mentioned earlier, having maybe a green roof there, you could also use that as some type of function space. It could be a conference space, something like that. That could be at the top. And it could be something that offers race viewing. So I think that would be, that would be really cool. Also, however this parking, and I know we're going to do a parking garage. We have to. There are ways to construct to design parking garages today where they don't really even look like a parking garage at first glance. When you have a center for the arts even the parking garage can be artistically done. And it is like right there on the corner and everything, we don't want anything that is going to be less than the rest of it. So I would like to see that. And I know I'm getting a little bit more into the into the details on on that. I was surprised throughout this you know I know that we're talking to key stakeholders but I was really surprised that there wasn't more mention throughout here of the Florida Orchestra. So this is this is a heavyweight organization whose home is in the center for the arts. Much like the Dolly Museum. Their name isn't on the outside of the building. That doesn't mean that they're not significant in this. They have a fantastic plan for expansion. And I do hope that we are looking further into making that happen especially now that we're getting some concepts going here. Having a space across from the MAHAPI that was, I think it was called an education center and possibly space for TFO. And this is why the more you talk to them, the more you're going to know how we need to narrow that tighten this up, it doesn't solve the problem for them. Expansion of the current, of the mayafi, not anything adjacent to it, but in it is the only way that it really will solve the problems that they have. Even having it across the way like that means all instruments have to be moved outside into the elements back and forth, and they're already having to do that. Putting it closer doesn't really help much. So I would like us to shift more towards fitting their concept into what we're working on here. Understood. And I think some of the things we talked with John about is the concept the very very early concept that the orchestra had put together Had some impact on operating them a happy as throughout construction, so I think we were looking at alternative Mm-hmm. Okay The I know I'm bouncing around a lot here. Just to stay on the Florida Orchestra for a minute, when you get down into the economic benefit, I found it interesting that the Mahafi wasn't able to provide any numbers regarding their economic impact and I certainly hope that we don't get the same response when it's time for them to ask to extend their contract with us or ask for anything at all. This is important, we need participation. So right now, as far as I'm concerned, their economic impact is zero. The Florida Orchestra, however, has had an economic impact study that they've shared and they're willing to share with anyone, that indicates that over a 10-year period their economic impact is $650 million to the city of St. Petersburg. They must be a part of this plan in a big way. So, with the TDC funding, are we are we going to be asking for anything related to the Center for the Arts with TDC funding on the next round? I believe we are. That's what we're working on now because I don't think it's due until 26 is that the next round is in 26. So I believe we'll be either looking at funding for Mahaffee, some of the things that they repairs and maintenance that they need, which we would certainly need economic impact numbers for that application. Yeah. That's what we're contemplating at this point. Okay, good. And as was mentioned earlier, the the theater is over. It still needs a lot of repairs, but then also renovations and upgrades. And I feel like we're going to be in a position where we can get, if we can get some help, we can really extend its useful life for a very long time while making it an even better place to experience arts and culture in St. Petersburg. Before I go on, Council Chair Gervis, did you have something to add to the TDC question? I was just going to say, I mean, I think Beth ended on the head. Applications will open probably mid-year next year and then would be awarded at the beginning of 2027. Okay okay great. Assuming the schedule stays the same as it has been. Yeah okay. Thank you Madam Chair. Yeah the I'll be quick because I know we're running late now. Just a couple things about Grand Prix. I appreciate everyone's comments on that. We want to see, as we move forward, it's really important to keep them involved and find out and or figure out how they are going to be accommodated during any construction. Yes. I I have concerns about that, but you know they've been great partners and I know that they will work with us as long as we're working with them too. And then we need to really work closely with them when we're considering any changes like what was mentioned earlier about paddock placement on grass. These aren't your normal tires. This isn't your normal event. So anything like that, even the entry ways. I mean, these guys are having done to a science. So I like to not mess with science when we've got something that's working. So let's see, the retail, I did like that idea, whether or not we have the conference center, if there's a way to add some commercial there and keep in mind that the Saturday morning market is nearby conceptually I love that Councilmember Herding brought up a question about local artists this could be a retail opportunity for maybe a blend of vendors from the Saturday morning market and also local artists to do an artisan market that maybe operates on a different day from the Saturday morning market but can certainly attract the same kinds of business. So really blending that local with something that's cool and unique and very St. Pete, I think would be a great opportunity. And since the city would own it, indeed, I think we can call the shots, can't we? Finally, my final question actually, it's a statement. This whole area is actually included inside the boundaries of the Intel CRA. Later today, we'll be talking, well, actually soon, sorry, We'll be talking in well actually soon sorry we'll be talking in BFNT about the CRA audit and where we stand with that so I think and then there has been a suggestion on a discussion about the the Intense Theory funding and how that all stands. I would just like us to all keep in mind that we're looking at legacy projects like this type of master plan for an area that needs a lot of help but has fantastic potential. When And it comes to funding, I know that we can find the money that we need to make something incredible happen here and really carry out some of the ideas that we've seen today. So let's just keep that in mind as we move forward. All right, and very quickly, if we can go to Councilmember Fix Anders, you're done? Councilmember Floyd? I'll keep it very brief. I'm just looking at the probable costs and whatnot. And I just wanted to encourage you to present us with like the capital needs for the area if we were to not even go through with something like this. Because I think it'll put it into context as to like, it might not be that much more to actually do complete renovations or we can at least compare what we're going to have to spend eventually because of the capital needs to what we could spend to get a larger innovation. I think that would show us that like this large renovation isn't quite as big because we're going to have to spend money anyway. So just please present that in the future. That's all I wanted to mention. All right, thanks. So what's in the next step? I think the next step for us is to take the feedback that we've heard today to work with John, to work with the stakeholders, kind of come back, whether at a meeting or just kind of give you some updated plans based on and thoughts based on what we've heard today. And then great. That's for sure. And in addition to those stakeholders, I think, is now the right time to bring in the Saturday morning market. And of course, TFO Ratties, all that. And also the Neighborhood Association. And I would suggest including the Downtown Partnership, the Chamber of Commerce, and the Downtown Business Association. Now is the time to reach out when people feel like they still have a voice in this. Because I hate it when we take things to people and say, here, the cake is baked, but what do you think? So I can't wait to hear that feedback, and I will coordinate with you guys to figure out when you can bring it back to this committee. Okay. All right, thank you. Do we have any other business for the committee today? All right, thank you very much. Words. with you guys to figure out when you can bring it back to this committee. Okay. All right, thank you. Do we have any other business for the committee today? All right, thank you very much. We're adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. you you