We're good. Alright, we're going to call tonight's workshop to order. Matt Seal, Steve Donahue, Hugh Red Allen, Steve Rosen, Harry Donahue, William Fulton. Okay, and we have approval of the agenda. So moved. Second. Matt Seal. Yes. Steve Donahue. Yes. Hubert Allen. Yes. Steve Rosen. Yes. Harry Donahue. Yes. William Flippin. Yes. All right. And we'll move right on over to the Capitol from the planet. All right. Well, gentlemen, thank you for circling back around with us after about a week. I've got the same presentation that we had previously with some changes. I've also asked Ms. Johnson to send to you the actual request forms for the items that were included in the CIP request themselves on these slides. And really what I'd like to do is go back through, I'm not going to go back and dive into a lot of this detailed information. what I'd like unless you have questions or feedback, what I'd like to do is go back through, I'm not going to go back and dive into a lot of this detailed information But what I'd like, unless you have questions or feedback, what I'd like to do is circle back around to the actual requests And talk about priority, share with you some photographs, and then answer any questions that you may have from the actual request forms themselves whether it's impacts the county operations or costs, timing, what items can be pushed, if items can be grant funded, things of that nature. Next, that's a question. Sure. I guess this is mostly out of curiosity. I'm not sure. Where do we stand on all the California's this last year? Most of those get done. Where do we, are there any carry-over items in here? Sure, so that's a great question. On the second slide number four, we did have some capital projects that we identified in the CIP last year, several of which were contingent upon grant funding opportunities. but just to circle back around we did identify the extension office repairs and what. several of which were contingent upon grant funding opportunities. But just to circle back around, we did identify the extension office repairs and the extension office there right from Delmas pantry. We had a situation where the basement wall was starting to slag a little bit. And we were afraid that we had some major structural issues. And what we were able to do was to engage with our own call engineering firm. They worked with us on a fix that would not require excavation and backfill and a major fix. And we actually were able to address that and I think they're working on it right now as we speak and they're utilizing ARPA funding. So it's no, they're fixing it at no cost at the county. And it's, I believe the solution is less than $10,000. So there's no request for additional funds for the projects since the money was from last year? Correct. Are there any other projects? Yes, I'm going to go down the list. Oh sure. Yep. So the Route 60 sewer line, if you write in right between the shell station, right there in between the shell station and the tire shop, there is... I draw it for you. Did that ass. That was me this time. I'm gonna give you an overhead view so if this is 60 and you got the tire shop here and you got shell here you know you got some grassy area here with some signage. Right along in here is the sewer line. Okay, and that's a tire shop. Right on that's shell. Right about in here, there is a space where, and I'm going to show you if you're looking through the sewer line, you know, a regular normal sewer line looks like that, obviously. Average sewer line looks like that. Where compaction, whenever it was installed somewhere along the way, compaction, whether it's construction material or some type of debris, has kind of pushed it to where it's not starting to work. Sorry, we're talking about that a pipe, you've got water that sits at the bottom all the time. So you send a little camera through it. That's the camera coming towards us. Now the water is like this and then at times the camera is underwater, it's underwater. So flow is still taking place. Good flow. As long as the brown goes down to the hairs, right? So with, not seriously, it's until the end. So the idea is now we would have to actually go in, 15 feet deep. We'd have to close down the portion of the road and go in and actually box that out and repair the water line. And that requires an engineered plan and it requires V.Engagement. We don't even know what it's going to cost until we bit it out. The large portion of the cost is going to be traffic control quite honestly. That being said, you're also going to have to rework the entrance because you've got two points of entry right here to the tire shop. We'd like to reduce it to one and that's at the request of V.in the county. So that being said, that's what's going to involve with the Route 60 sewer line project. Architecture on engineering is in progress on the V.ask put their eyes on it. Whatever it costs, we're going to have to fund it out of fund balance. And we have to do it. It's not a nicety. It's a half to the nose. That fails. We've got a big problem. So we want to bring that pipe back to this. Just a shelter you might want to ask to engineering for they re-line a lot of sewer pipes. You might want to check to see if it could be re-lined. Correct. If so, that would cut down on the excavation and amount of crowshirt that would be needed. So the way you're correct, they've got a new technique where essentially there's a big, pointy thing, I'm going to call it a pointy thing, other than this. And then there's a pipe attached to it. Right. And then they pull it through and it replaces that pipe. But the way we looked into that, and it's not applicable to this because of the way the pipe is shaped and the type of pipe it is. So that was one option that we looked at in the recommendation from the engineers to actually go in and replace it. What you said is a winner on or a server on? Yeah, what's your C900 or do you know? I'd have to go back and get, I don't want to misquote, but I do know that we looked at that as an option and it wasn't applicable. I would, I don't know what the engineering firm would say because I know my engineering firm disagreed with me on the project, but when we run water sewer under what's going to be an entranceway, we put it in a case and pipe, so it's a little more protected. And if you have problems, it's a little easier to remedy a solution to it. So I mean, I'm not trying to tell you all what to do. The engineers don't like it sometimes. Some of them do. Well, I think anywhere along the line that you can get access without having to excavate as a positive as long as it's not compromising the system. But that's where we are with that project. So, let's see here. Park renovations. There was $100,000 in solar funding from last year. We have spent approximately $50,000 of that because we're waiting on the second payment of the second 50,000. If you're not aware, the county staff have been working down at the ball fields down here at the intersection of 13 and 60. If you haven't seen the new dugouts, the new fencing, everything, it looks phenomenal. New roof on the concession stand, the bathrooms have been remodeled. I I mean And I think if we had outsourced that it probably would have cost probably 200 to 250,000 but because we did it in house We were able to do it at the cost of materials Obviously, there's some time there's a time component to that Additionally, we recently received $36,000 in grant funding for Luther P Jackson So we're we're making some improvements to some of the doors, some electrical improvements, signage improvements at no cost of the county other than the match. And we'll use some of that solar funding to serve as the match, so we're not seeing anything out of pocket. Drainage improvements at schools, that was a project that was identified, that there was a drain outside of the cafeteria. You recall that area that was blocked up and sealed. There used to be a lot of drainage problems there. The drain was undersized. Seems to be a common theme around here. But the drain was undersized there at that door and whenever we had a heavy rain, all the roof drains fed into that one drain and it overwhelmed the drain and it would back up into the floor. Since that time the schools had blocked that up, but we've also gone through and rewinkered our roof drain system so that it empties out onto the ground and that way it doesn't overwhelm the drain itself. So my main concern was what does it do to the areas around the school? We've seen no negative impact from that so we were able to come up with a solution without spending anything Once we got in there and looked at it Fiber installed a range road. We actually worked with Firefly. They built a fiber hut on County property and an exchange for that It's located right there at the public workshop adjacent to the animal control building behind the transfer station. And in exchange for that, they also were able to install fiber to range road as part of that project, save us about $200,000. So the other project, the big one that we're working on is the County Radio System. We have ordered the system components. We are going to be required to put in a tower behind the Sheriff's Office. So the company is doing an analysis on the pinch point for the tower so that we'll know where the fall zone is. We're going to get an idea of what our footers are going to look like. We're actually going to be on the hook for putting in the footers. But Virginia State Police is going to actually install the tower at no cost to the county The estimated completion for this project is going to be summer, late summer early fall of this year, and I can tell you that if we were to do this project on our own as a standalone project, even if we were to partner with Sae Palatine County, it would be upwards of $5 million. We'd have to have new towers, we'd have to buy all of our components on a on a design bid build basis. We'd have to hire a project manager. I mean we would have to redo dispatch, we'd have to handle all the installs and all the vehicles, the state police is doing all of this for us as a partnership. All we're paying for is the system components that's being bought off state contract. They are motorola components and because the Virginia State Police is the largest contract on the East Coast for motorola we get like a 40% discount on that. So we're going to save probably three to four million dollars on this project and we won't have any ongoing operating costs associated with it. Now there's still some things we have to work through operationally with radios and pagers and things of that nature, but we'll get there eventually. So that's the update for what we had from this year. OK. Any other questions? Okay. Just rolling through here. We did have a request for vehicle replacements from the Sheriff's Office and from county staff. This is a medium priority. We do have creative solutions that we've used in the past, where we worked with Hannaver County and to acquire used vehicles. And actually the used vehicles that we've required are old police interceptor engines. And I believe Ms. Johnson uses one right now and it's actually a very nice vehicle. And we're buying them for $5,000 or $6,000 with $80,000 miles on them. So it's an opportunity for some savings. I don't think it's a long-term solution because you don't have any type of warranty on the vehicle. And again, you're buying something that's used. You don't know what problems you're inheriting, but it does buy you some time, so to speak. That is an opportunity that we can continue to explore without buying new vehicles. If that's the PC's recommendation. I don't see how you can offset the cost of the new vehicle just by the warranties especially when you have the ability to do basic maintenance you know in County. You're talking about $80,000 for five 80,000 miles or $5,000. You'll never, you know. Yeah, you can never re-open it. Yeah, remember. I think for the maintenance department, those types of departments that need specialized vehicles, I think that makes sense. And for Sheriff's Office, that would make sense for a new vehicle. but for like county staff like myself or administration or you know, something else, the used vehicles weren't perfectly either of. Yeah, and I think it really comes up to an operational decision for the Sheriff's Office. You know, if they're SROs, they aren't really driving anywhere and you can outfit it with, and you're only going, I mean, how often do you guys go on high-speed chases? I don't know the answer to that. But it's not. It depends if I've had a good or bad mind. Right. Like you said, from a police department, some of the used vehicles are more live on new vehicles like the ones in the park. The explorers that came in 21 then went back. Shaddy's getting sued now because their engines are blown up. Right. So Todd was in Todd over a quest. Four set a lot of the new vehicles that probably control problems and they're outrageously expensive from Burjah. And then that's not even including the outfit and equipment costs which some of the use ones already have. Already have. Or they already have the holes in the hood. Yeah. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it, but you have to have some in there like, you know, some of the other services they get wrong color lights or they get the wrong color. Right. We've gone through that. If you're checking that, a helicopter, which is a trial and error. And the thing is when you're working with like say, Hannover County, they are ranked like like 41 41st in the nation and fleet management Like if you were to stack up localities across America There's a lot of really good departments in Virginia to get stuff They know that and that's one of them and that's one of the reasons that we pursued them And they actually gave us what they did was they went through and took an average over like a 18 month period of what they were selling these vehicles for at auction and then gave us a 25% reduction. And then we didn't have to compete with anybody, they just let us buy them. So, which I think is what you call the logging in records if you really wanted to dig in. Oh, it's in there, yep. And you can see if it was a problem call or... Is it a limit or not? Yeah, right. I've got a question about air bus fleet for the schools. Years ago back when my mother's driving school buses and all, their county... Yeah, right. I've got a question about, sure, air bus fleet for the schools. Years ago, back when my mother's driving school buses and all, the county would buy government surplus, all army cars for a little bit of nothing. And three or four bus drivers would get in one car and go home. And then, you know, they'd drive back, get the buses and drive the buses. Are we doing that now or are we sending buses home just with the driver? I can't speak to it because a chip would have to be able to answer that question but it's my understanding that bus drivers do get to take their vehicles home with them. You put in half the miles on them. And you know used to be able to get these cars. I mean they weren't real pretty cars but they were functional and you know you drove them doing the day you had a bus shop there. When I'm broke down somebody was there within 15 minutes. Right. And then you know five years later they say well we got 100,000 miles on the buses. Right. If a betting man part of the reason that that that's how they operate is is a recruitment retention tool because it's so hard to find bus drivers if I have our bet man I would think that that would be part of the rationale but that being said I can certainly ask Chip It might make more sense to me. on the North like they're clear from Colombia. They're taking kids up on the way and driving to get on my back. They might make more sense to me. The big kids have to bring the schools, right? But who the hell at home at the dollar? Ten summers or routes are. I don't know. I mean, I don't know if they bring them back at the mean time. Well, I think some of them actually drive the bus in the morning. I think some of the problem too results in the fact that the bus drivers aren't as when we were in school and driving. The bus drivers kind of live fairly close to each other and all. Now they've got bus drivers up on the southern end of the county that live outside the county. But that means one car is going away out of the county, you know? Yeah, but I mean it wasn't like one or two cars took everybody open that. Yeah four or five or six. It was five or six. It was five or six. I mean it was five, but if they had that card to drop, taking stuff home and leave the bus at school. Yeah. Carpool bag and stuff. You got two left wheels on the road with a car then you do with the bus. Car if you get a little bit by, hopefully get a little bit by a fuel economy. You use my machine. Now I will tell you that the bus purchases are not end of the CIP, that's typically done by the schools at the end of the year if they have money available. It's my understanding. So, but I'll certainly ask the question. What about the possibility, and I don't know what dynamics are now, but at one time between VECO and VML, they had a lease to purchase program that you lease vehicles has to county truck into that recently. We've looked into it and it's it's not advantageous to us it's it's something that you would have to be a mega locality with a ton of vehicles for to really work for you. And mega locality. A chest of fields. Yeah yeah't write that. Yeah. Yeah, because we I used it in Gordon's field. I like that. Okay, I don't want any part of it. We came in on the state police contract to lease their police vehicles, which I think we got new vehicles for like 18, 19,000 a year, which a new vehicle at the time fully outfitted was about 46,000. But, you know, things change. So, any other questions? On the vehicles time? Yeah. I think it's weird and I don't know, and to know but like the replacement cycle on maybe this is coming next yeah it is sheriff's office was lower than fire knee and mess but then I think fire knee mess was the same as county maintenance and like Mr. Johnson said like some of the county maintenance vehicles I I'm sure like, hard-headed do views, but then some of them are probably just like. It's, it's, you gotta remember the, the, the policy is the policy, and you can deviate. If you've got a truck, that's a good truck, and it's not a lemon, and you don't have any frame rust, keep the truck. There's some discretion built into it. This is just a recommended standard. Yeah, and then And then at the bottom, we do have what's all vehicles are subject to the cost of arc, which is the repair versus cost of acquisition. So for example, if you've got an F-150, it's got 82,000 miles. You pay 35 for the vehicle and you're spending, you've spent over 21,000 dollars to make repairs. Why would you spend 21,000 dollars on an 82,000 mile vehicle? That's my point. I mean, that's from the point that you buy it. That's accumulated. Yeah, that's accumulated. That's still crazy. Yeah. Yeah, but if it's a 2018, we have vehicles from 2005. I mean, I drive a 2007 and a 2004 and a 2008 of the vehicles I have in my business. They all total don't amount 21,000 in repairs. Right. But again, that's just a policy. If you get to that point, you need to cut bait with the vehicle and replace it. No, not like all total tires. No, that's regular maintenance. It's repairs. Now, how that? Um, parts of labor or what? So you pull out standard maintenance. So all changes, tires, brakes, that's standard maintenance. But if I've got a replace, a radiator, and then I got a bad module, and then I got a transmission, I got a replace, and then I got a fix a frame. I don't know if it's a B-Rex and then it's all a frame No, that's covered by insurance so it's it's maintenance costs Do that radio are you just talking to cost the radiator are you talking but you have to send it off? Yeah, it's cost in repair Well, it does some I've always wondered you know you you have people like EMS. You have people you're paying, you know, to be there. You haven't made this people you're paying to be there. And then you're charging that expense as if it's not out of pocket expense. You can pay that guy to be there in the maintenance shop that day anyway. Well, he puts that radio in or not. Well, our guy's wouldn't put in and replace radiators. We've formed it out. So it's stuff formed out? Yes, right. And the goal would be to track it. So again, if I acquire it in 2015 and it's a 2015, it's non-standard maintenance, repair costs that are non-standard, accidents don't count. but once you reach a certain percentage of the cost of a place, it's time to cut bait. Now how much maintenance do we do in house? As far as routine, we handle some routine maintenance ourselves, but most of it's farmed out. Well, thank you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this might help answer your question, but a lot of the vehicles to count. I think that's correct me if I'm wrong, but this might help answer your question, but a lot of the vehicles to county shop does not have their diagnostic equipment and calibration equipment to handle the major repairs due to the cost of their diagnostic and calibration equipment. I mean, the other thing too thing too to consider is timing. So for example school bus shop their priority is the school we're secondary we get that. So if we have to wait six weeks to get a repair done we're gonna go somewhere else. Time value money. So yeah especially if it's something routine or when the year's left for the other week this, they do it themselves. Yeah, so. All right. Any other, do you have any other? I know you were asking about this. No, I think I've got one. Okay. I want to look Okay. Good work down. Good work, please. Sorry. All right. So the next item up for bid, the Fence Impro- there's three. The Fence Impro- it's the maintenance shop, the paving at the transfer stations, the library roof. I honestly think that the library roof can be pushed as a medium priority to an out-year. I don't think it's a need of immediate replacement, but it's something that we just need to keep on our radar from a capital standpoint. I'm going to show you a picture of the shop just to orient you. This is related to the fence improvements. This is Commerce Road. This is the animal shelter. These are the three shop buildings. This is the tower in the shell building. We've currently fenced in all of this with gates and fencing. But this burn here that separates the maintenance shop from the shell building is unfenced. And that's a portion of what that 50,000 would take care of. So, it was the rest of the picture. It would be fencing at other locations where we need additional fencing. But the majority of it would be this completion. Well, if the possibility to share a building is going to be utilized, that's probably a top priority. Yeah. Wouldn't that be something that if the show building gets utilized that they would might want to have? And put it in before it was meant to have 50 valid miles on. It's something that I would want to leverage for them to help pay for. Yeah. So. Because if you compile all the stuff that's gone and that one area up with it,, like 3.0. And we'll control renovation and then having a shop remodel or build. There's a lot going on down in there. And if they weren't staged, right? So under creative, it's a priority, but it would be done with creative funding opportunities. It would be my recommendation. We wouldn't necessarily have to pay for the whole thing, maybe a portion. But I think when we start talking about the tenant at the shell building, it could be something that they could assist us with. I don't know about the O transfer stations but Randolph is nothing but hot holes. I'm gonna show you a picture. Oh you don't have to show that's it. Oh that's that's the good part. That's a good part. I wouldn't even overlay this. I went in it share day Second time last week in there are part holes in there that would Just about take on a small car you could put a small car in the park hole Yeah, and the thing is we have patched them repeatedly repeatedly and it's just in the park hall. Yeah, and the thing is we have patched them repeatedly, repeatedly. And it's just, and it doesn't, you can't just do a simple overlay, two inch overlay. You gotta go in and mill it up. They've got the mill from 45 from the apron to apron. From the apron to the concrete. Is that in part because of the trucks taking out the dumpsters? No. That's the go the trucks go in and they don't even hit that area Think of there But when you get in past or caretaker shit It's nothing but potholes that are a good foot will more deep and they stretch from one side of their drive to the out. I mean it's... It's a bit heavy. Any idea how many cars going out there in the other thing? I don't, but I can find out. It's not a career house. I mean, it never seems that busy, but it must be because that's not happening on its own. But I tell you, I'm in there. I mean, that's the one I use. It's ugly. This is rain off. This is down towards farm bell. Oh yeah. I was asking, I was waiting to ask about Hamilton's. I was in 30 quarter of nine approximately and I was the fifth field coin line to dump and I went one day first part of last week too and that particular day it was Monday or Tuesday it was like two or three vehicles ahead of me when I went. A lot of people that will come in with a trailer with construction debris and all and that they'll... and now there are a lot of people that will come in with the trailer with construction debris and all and that they are loaded pretty heavy so it's not just routine cars on and well I go in empty weight on my truck is over 8,000. So is Hamilton part of this repaying project? It's part of it. Yes, that's 50,000. I think you can pay for and off for probably 30. We would pay a portion of Hamilton with that 50 as well. Now, there is some talk about a potential easement, electrical easement for a previously approved solar project that would go in along that road there in Hamilton. So we don't want to pave it and then have major construction take place within that easement. I know there's, we wait till after to pave it. I'm trying to think, I know that we looked at the solar set of sun and ops, the site of Columbia road in the town, and this end of the structure going to your. It's a matter of fact I was on a Saturday. I actually, somebody knew I was on a training commission. They like, why don't you all pay this thing so it's not. Hey, that's for the Super Files project. That's right. So yeah, you would have to go apron to apron on this one and mill it add add some stone and then Have you looked at the cost of fleeing concrete black dough? Huge difference. How creates like three times as much concrete almost 800 dollars of yarn. It's so expensive So that could be a one-time thing. Yeah, you never have to touch a year and then redo it again. So I think what's there is more they didn't really put down heavy asphalt. I don't think it's more top. I don't think you get a Randall on no day. Yeah this one there's very look from what I can tell all you gotta do is look in that bottle right there. There's very little base. You've probably got two inches of overlay. You need to put down at least four inch compacted base and then put two inch compacted top code on it. And that probably doesn't have any 21A base at all. It's probably just right on top of your... It's crushing run underneath. Yeah, it's not 21A. There's no 21A. 21A is crushed or run. I think 21A is a little bit bigger. 21B is bigger. 21A is a half inch stone. But like you said, the whole thing needs to be pulled up and then you need to put about 4 to 6 inches of compacted stone under there and then run you 2 to 3 inches of heavy duty black top. Roll it tight. So, any other questions? Picture tells a thousand words. HVAC replacements. I'm going to jump ahead here. I took some photos today of some of the HVAC units that we have at the Luther P. Jackson complex. We have probably, I'd say nine to ten units, all were installed at the same time, which is a no-no, but it is what it is. And you can see the label there. The manufacturer date is October of 2009. All of these units are essentially identical and have the identical sticker. The unit I took a picture of there is actually different from the one from the label on the left. You can't even read the label on it. It's actually a goodman, a goodman unit. I could not find the date on it because the label was so faded. But it's running, I don't know what that was, but it's running and it's operational but still when you've got so many units manufactured at the same time they're now one year beyond their life cycle. Estimated life cycles are 15 years on these HVAC units. You can certainly wait till they break, or you can try to plan for it. So in the Alapane 2, good minutes more of a residential built unit, not a commercial unit. These are all residential units. They should at least be a commercial unit. So this is for the gym, it's for social services, it's for the closed closet. Bear Creek Academy. These are actually the one you see here is at the gym. The picture of the label is one of the units behind Bear Creek Academy. And I believe Bear Creek has one unit that's already been replaced with a fairly new train system, but there's four additional units that are of this age. And I think the reason we're not seeing more issues with them is because they are train units. They are pretty good. So. There are many people working on this. So we would like to go ahead and try to replace these. You can wait for them to break, but when they break, depending on the time of year, you can't use the space. You got to wait for parts, you got to wait for delivery, all that stuff. The worst thing is to go down into dead or one or extreme coal or extreme heat when they're going to fail. You may not be able to get something for 60 days or more. How many are you going to replace? I believe it's nine. So you want to play small again at the same time? I don't like to do that but I I think it's something that we can look at staggering. You might want to hold one and reserve, so when that one does go down, you'll have one to put it in. Well, worst thing you can hold it in reserve. You eat it up, you warrant it time, and the other thing too, all of the seals in your compressor and in your... Well, you wouldn't have't have to on the other hand you wouldn't have to hold it fiscally and reserve if you just have paid for it and have it on the or if you don't have it. Yeah, but you can get up on the new units. You're not put free on it. That's right. You all want to get there. I was getting there. You've got to change into technology. It's about 800 bucks. But I mean, if you can find art or one, yeah. You can't find it. Oh, I appreciate it. You're supposed to come out in the minutes. But you don't write. You need to turn, I mean, you can't leave them sitting in a warehouse or some order because your seals start to to tear right they really have to be in operation in a H-Fact company They normally try to move the units I within 30 to 40 days So they get new ones in from the manufacturer because of the deterioration of your seals, deterioration of your electronics and all that. Have you looked at the Douglas type? Many splits. Yes and no. We do have many splits on the front building of the school um but we haven't because those can be location specific yeah I we could do a cost comparison I think the issue would be you know the brick wall you'd have to you'd have to set them through through the brick wall. I'd have to get with Brian on it. I can check. It does not lend itself to use in a commercial build and except for hotel motels as well as why doesn't it land to such commercial use? For a commercial purpose because normally your A-throw is different your ductless units mainly are installed in hotel motels because they are specific to one or two rooms or suite or whatever. I think that's the key if you've got a chopped up office space it wouldn't be it wouldn't work but if you've got like a big room with cubbies it would work because it can I mean you can go up to 600 square feet on a good many split and it'll heat cool the room but if you've got offices that are chopped up you know floor to ceiling walls you would have to have a ductless unit for each individual room which is why why you don't actually that you should motel hotels more so than commercial offers to build it. I don't think it makes sense to be replacing something for the gym if you're going to be doing the roof right after that. Well, that's the rationale for bringing, for taking that a frame off of the roof that's there now and taking it back to a flat roof is then your equipment yard goes on the roof and you're not taking up space there in the courtyard of the school. So yes, that would be a good move. If the roof is going to fall in and I get funded, the air condition is not looking good. Well, I don't think the roof is an immediate danger of collapse, but it does need to be addressed. One of the things, I know that there are skylights in that gym, and I would use those as your curves, and then you could just sit the units right there on top, and then you wouldn't have to put any more roof penetrations in there for the units. Of course, it's going to be more expensive to service to units and all on the roof. Well you need a crane to insure. Well even to to routine maintenance, it's going to be more expensive to service. Service is pretty easy. Most most most contract, HFAC contract is charge extra to even go on a threat roof because of the liability of going up the ladder or using a bucket truck to get too long. Well our goal is to bring all of our HVAC in house anyway because we can save money by having our own contact. Yeah you could. But keeping a good HVAC in is tough. It's going to be a problem. So if you know anybody let me know. All right any other questions? Was the animal control renovations included in that? Yeah let me back up my bad. I didn't include a picture of the animal control shop. No time was as much as all the HVAC. Correct. It's essentially adding an adoption room because studies show that we need more space because it impacts our youth and age rate and our kill rate at the shelter. We want to get that as low as possible. We're not able to transfer dogs out at the rate that we were a couple of years ago and we're seeing this as a trend across not only Virginia but across the country as shelters are full and they're at max capacity. So if we have an adoption room in place where we can help move dogs that helps that rate tremendously. One of the things that that we're pursuing is some of the Envigo settlement funds. I think a nice big adoption room with the outdoor area that a little bit of fence on the other side of the northern section of that area. Yeah absolutely. And you should, Envigo funds could be huge. I'm working on that. It's, the Envigo funds are interesting because a lot of the language in the settlement because of the water quality issues that they were cited for, they're tying the language for the settlement funds to water quality issues. And my argument is no, this was as much an issue with animal protection as it was water quality. So where are the funds from the settlement that are aimed at animal protection? In Cumberland should be at the front of the line because this is where it happened. So I'm doing everything I can from my perspective to try to get much more than $100,000 to make improvements to that shelter. I'll tell you where you should go. I'll tell you where you should go. down the water was because the animals were not being cared for. And their reward against Envigo was to provide by a quality care for animals. Yep, so there's something that could be resolved with just a little bit of marketing for adoption faster in our county. We are. I know that there's a lot of dogs on the market, but it's still. We are doing our shelter attendant is doing a bang-up job with Facebook and social media. She is done awesome and I can't be more proud of her efforts. I mean, she's got stuff every day updated. We've got items in our program guide. And I attribute the way that we've been able to maintain our save rate. I think it's like 94%. Well, they end up with so many dogs. Hunt and season, people turn them back in. They're just loops. I think they're problem coming out of COVID and all of it. Everybody got dogs for their own COVID. Yeah, and then they turned them back in. And we leverage partnerships too, so we'll go to, I know we've sent dogs to Goochland's animal shelter. Yeah, they have a lot of stuff over there. Yeah, a $9 million animal shelter. But we've partnered with them, Richmond Animal League, Richmond SPCA, other localities, even rescues out in Western Virginia to move dogs. They do a lot of good work in here, but... Do we allow... maybe as help was. I tried Harry Rodney Rodney Rodney Rodney to adopt too. I think we do. Yeah absolutely. Anybody wants to take on a dog that qualifies? Have that? What about turn in dogs? You have to surrender? Yes. You have to surrender an animal Yes sir. I will say our attendant down here she does go to events not just on Facebook but she goes to different events to promote the animal control. At our trunk retreat event they had one of the best one of the best setups. I was just I think. She's just part time right? Yeah and it's it's a full-time gig. It is. Like like most of us around here you know it's it doesn't stop with the prescribed hours. Dofton. Dofton. Dofton. Dofton. Dofton. Dofton. Dofton. Dofton. Dofton. Dofton. Dofton. Dofton. to have a building or structure down there, but like more fun for the people. Well, see, that's my, my ask for the settlement funds is not only bricks in mortar, but also trucks funding for several years for additional people. I just, I'm waiting to hear what that, if it even gets a place. Right. It doesn't do any're always over this goes back to that creative funding opportunities creative solutions that we talk about too so good Is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority one or is that a priority? It's a medium priority. I mean, it's not like we have to have this. I mean, but it would be it's desirable. And we aren't we have pursued grants. We went after a T-Mobile grant for $50, we got denied on that one and there's some other opportunities through the Dominion Foundation that we're trying to pursue as well. We can have a school tied into some kind of fundraiser. Well they are doing a fundraiser at Sprucebury on April 12th. Oh yeah they're doing something with Easter.ering hunt with dogs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, something like that. So that would be a very... I got mixed feelings on that after what happened at my house over the weekend. But anyway, you might want to go out and... Can some of this stuff be like user feed? Like, you know, a raised adoption fee and set aside a certain amount? and make it a greater fee for turned in dogs, you know, things like that and offset some of that cost. Sure. Like having like sponsored, like people that want to like, they get their sign like, you know, like on a road or whatever adopt a highway but, they've had them like a wall. Now you could, you could, you could, you could sell or for some naming rights. Yeah, that's, if you go across the river, that's one of the ways they were able to get a $9 million facility. It's naming rights oriented. But you got to make sure you have an attractive enough facility to sell naming rights. Yeah, you know, something to raise money. My sister was in a real small community in Central California. Screw that. Right. You know, something to raise money. My sister was in a real small community in Central California. It's 3,000 people. It's a little beach candy. They'd have been, believe it or not, it's rather beach, but you know, they're always struggling for money too. And they do have an animal rescue group there. And what they do to raise money every year is they take all the dogs that they have in the shelter and they do an Easter Parade with the dogs and they have donation booths all over and they dress the dogs up in rabbit ears and all kinds of stuff they raise five six thousand dollars every year just doing that I think there's a lot of meat on this one there's a lot of mental health and stuff that's on this one I have for sure. I was there two years ago when this thing was going on. This thing is unbelievable. I mean, and they have donation. I said booths, but you know, just stations. Yeah. Set up every hundred yards. I mean, the thing was about a quarter mile long. It was pretty cool to see. pictures of it. It was really cool. How did they do with the end Christmas donations for food? I'd have to check. I know we donated like 100 pounds. So you want to donate 100 pounds of the Stamie Household? Ha, ha, ha. Let me tell you, shoot gets delivered to our house twice a month. Got you. Yeah, and we just have, well, I have a cock of spandula. My wife has a miniature dash shound And the miniature dash shound eats more than the cock of spandula. Cockus spangles, good dogs. Mm-hmm. But I was just curious because that might be something that you, I don't know if they kept a list of gummies for their, go food or not. You might go bad or really good food. Now let me ask you a question. And this is, I just don't know because I don't do it. like chewy if I've got an account for every purchase I made they set aside a percentage that can be donated yeah yeah maybe that's a program we need to look I just don't know because I don't do it. But like Chouy, if I've got an account for every purchase I made, they set aside a percentage that can be donated. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's a program we need to look at. Yeah, that's like, if that's something we want to look at, it's going to be like, if that's Chouy, dies or gets sick, they send you flowers and stuff. Because they say the last, it's a subscription. So the dog guys, people don't think about chaos on it. Call them to try to send it back. And they like, and they donate that amount to the local, whatever. I got some of the rules when I was a minute or like some of the person. But then like people, it's like an emotional one. You got like the domestic violence victims, time, the animals, somethings of these, mental, all that type of stuff. Going after the emotions.%. Going after the emotions. We need to do like a little video tour. Yeah, these are all really great ideas. And I think that if we could get this information to our Animal Control office and our attendant down there, she would run with these. Because she, again, she's been great at kind of handling a lot of the marketing and stuff. I'm taking notes so yeah you know I'm just saying yeah that's a big thing I mean just before that it was like one or two guys that are just like any every day all day we have to always kill with all this like miserable terrible depressing places should be happy a place. If you could feature a dog or something, she does. Yeah. Oh. Maybe we could. I mean, I'll put a lot of you on Facebook. I got the doctor pack. That's a sight. And you could just put in, just don't try to get things down there, getting them all. Anywhere from $50 to $300. Do you agree? No, I'm just community, I mean, you know, because it's not just the only problem that we have. Partly that it'll hurt our annual control. Right. There's a lot of minerals. There's got to be some form. When I built the animal shelter in Guichuan, we have, they had, oh, it's ridiculous. They had a critter room for rabbits and ferrets. Yeah. A critter room. Yeah, and it was literally a ginormous recessed opening in a wall with like aquariums. They can't get in there. And they were just filled with rabbits and stuff. It was unbelievable. They have's a large animal rescue team too that they operate they take horses I mean there was a they had a place for horses cows pigs chickens they have like a whole like boom look at them it's insane. So, alright. Public work shop just brought some pictures here of one of our shops that is less than stellar. You can see the T111 is riding from the base up and the roof is is rotting from the top down. Hard to store equipment in there when it leaks. The whole area, it's kind of chopped up. The thought process would be to consolidate this into one building. But of course we're certainly open to suggestions and options outside of spending half a million dollars to do so. You see, it's like a tunnel. It's beefy. How much of this stuff can be stored outside like a pole line or something? Well, a lot of your equipment, especially like your jetters and some of your other utilities equipment, can freeze and then they've got to replace pipe fittings and all this other. It's good to have it in some type of climate controlled environment. you can re-roof that thing and re-stight it for 20,000. That's a whole lot more than a whole lot less than 500,000. Yeah. How old was that building? That building has been here longer than I have. That building is not more than a plan. I'd tear it down and keep it concrete. The best thing you could do would be to rely on your toy. But that's just that old piece of shit. It's a good fact shit. Yeah, I mean, that's... It looks good in the picture, but when you go down and see it... Yeah, well, I'm just thinking, you know, you can build a whole new road. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think because everything's, I think the idea is to consolidate into one building, but I'm not opposed to looking at alternative options to meet the need. I mean, are all the buildings looking like that? No. Okay, but it's just that building, right? Well, there's a couple others that are really rough. It's about two other day in life that are really bad in my opinion. That I've seen. The one with concrete floor will also mind your dad. Those are very nice. That's the metal buildings, yeah. Have you looked at... I know there are metal buildings that can be purchased and erected for quite a bit less than a hundred thousand. That would probably provide a boa. There's a possibility of building something ourselves would work. Cardinal out of North Carolina does those types of buildings. And if you've got a pad already, I just think we probably need to look more into this and try to come up with a better more affordable plan. So it's a company that also does the metal build and you've got the concrete pad, 6070 thousand. We'll put a lot of 40 by 80 build. I'm a little confused as far as the purpose. One minute we're staying in shop and one minute we're staying storage. What are we dealing with? So if you look at, let me go back. Page of the list. So can you see my cursor is on the screen? This is not on the screen. This is the one you have to picture 14. Yes. So, here's the animal shelter. So the adoption room we would essentially bump out here. You'd have a T. But this is the main shop. That's where the office is. And then this is the building I took pictures of. This is like a pole barn where stuff is just kind of shoved in there. So now in the shop, what are we doing in the shop? Well, you have administrative offices. You've got a door for like a garage door here. There's two bedrooms. Yeah, there's two bedrooms and there's no HVAC,, no heating and cooling. It can get rough in the winter in the summer. But what are we doing in there? That's what we're doing. That's where they call me. It's in to make repairs. But we just say we send most of it out. But if I've got a piece of farm equipment, I need to work on it. I pull it in here. It's also a lot of different types of storage, scattered storage. So my point is the solution may not be one giant glomerate of a shop. It could be re-evaluating the purpose. You know, let's insulate some of the buildings. Let's put some HVAC in there. Let's reconstruct this. I think, you know, we're starting at a high level. We've drilled down. We can come up with the alternatives of the plan that's more affordable. You see a lot of the metal buildings that maybe one section is closed up and insulated and that's the shop. And then the rest of it is equipment storage. Right. That's kind of how 12 is currently. The far right, the most used to commerce, is where the quote-unquote office space is, and then there's the two-base, it's two rooms, and then the remaining space of that building that is 12 is where the two bay doors are. That's where it's, you know, higher ceilings where you can get a taller vehicle. That's the garage. Correct. And then 14 is just storage. No. And then go ahead. And I was going to say 16 is what we would consider the newer building. Is that when you said you won the Willis belt? Yeah, that has a concrete floor. That's a big building. Yeah. Some of the steel strips are like a loft in it, manager. Well, like some of these things are hot, they're cold, like having a... I think there's... How often do these guys get loose? Yeah. Like these guys are hot, they're cold. often do I get youth elements or a drug scene? You think it'll make some sense? Yeah, I think there's part in the pun. I think there's more than one way to skin this cat. I think it's around. It's around me. How often do they get youth elements or drugs? You think it'll make some good money? I think there's part in the pond. I think there's more than one way to skin this cat. Because around, and around, they will... In the back here, the last thing is the school bus shop. What do you think they do? Not in a million dollars. Any possibility to put them together? I think you could. Well, let's... I think, let me jump. Do you want me to go ahead and move towards schools? Yeah, the schools's got a bunch of stuff spread out a little bit. Why is we're skipping past that? We can come back to it. We can come back to it. Let's keep that thought in mind. I don't want to lose my spot. All right, so the next item is related to pump station generators. I didn't have a picture of a pump station generator that I could share with you. Because quite frankly, I couldn't get to them. But right now we have five pump stations that have them. We have several that don't and literally... What about the portable? Some of them have the portable. You do have a portable and you've got to transfer switch. The problem is you've got to then you've got to go ahead of the line. You've got to pump it down. Then you've got to go to the next one, pump it down, pump it down. If you're in an adverse weather situation, your system's going to be down. You may have trees that are across the way. If you have generators and key locations, my goal would be to have it to where I don't endanger staff and that these things come on automatically and we don't have to worry about dealing with the backup and I think there's some grant opportunities to actually get this done under creative opportunities you know you've got grant funding and some of the Envigo water quality grants could be used for this because it impacts the water system. So I've been told. What did it cause? We did. Yeah we are doing the PMs on them but it's just it's just not enough. Well it's better maintenance. I used to do it monthly and then I used to have somebody come in every six months. That's correct. Yeah. So it's on a PM contract but we also check them as well on a routine schedule. So again I would be in favor of something like raising public utility price use in order to help compensate some of the cost for that. Now we did do a rate study about a year ago and the key is not the increasing the rate, the key is increasing the amount of people on the system. Why do they, why is this problem happening? What problem? The need for the worst causing that. The size of the pump stations. Yeah, so the pump stations, you only have a certain amount that have generators. So in the event that you have a power outage, you've got to go out and you've got to manually move a generator around and pump down some of the pump stations to stay ahead of the sewage. It's not like that. It's not like that. So you're saying the key is increasing the number of people using it, but the maxed out now, the number of people? Yeah, they're not even close. They're in the area with air. But if I'm not mistaken too, and I'm going back 30 years, but under the original grant funding, and that may have caused, may have expired now, but that was a max on the number on the email that could be charged A user of the sewer line. I Think there's probably a connection fee that's maxed out But as far as rates go the county can adjust rates at any time Well, I was thinking for a set number of years. It was also a max cap on the rate fee So is this just still the same problem then of just getting businesses here? Yeah. Users, connectors. Yeah. The other year this figure was 60,000. And they said it was an 8,000 or 8kW, 8,000 watch and array. I have talked to people and they said you should get two for that, almost three. Automatic transfer switch, all that. Is that just a ballpark figure? Well we've priced out, we've got estimates for 46,000. That does not make sense. You know, is it 8000 Y? I have to tell the double check, but that's what they said at the meeting over here. I understand, but Brian Saxon knows what he's looking at. And if he says it's 46, I'm... I just priced a 30. I can find out. I just priced a 30 KW for my home. And I'm looking at 23,000. That's 30, this is 8. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, and it doesn't make sense. I mean, I've already got it. Talk to me equipment and I've already got it. I disconnect switches in price. I wouldn't get hung up too much on the dollar figure because ultimately we're not're not going to be able to fund it anyway But from a funding opportunity standpoint. I do believe we can pursue grants on this I just want to get your feedback that we should we should keep it on the list I would say that is a higher priority to me then a new building at the Yeah, but work but work. If you ever ever had to deal with a sewer back up into a home, this is not a top priority. Not only that, but if we're trying to attract businesses. Yeah, how much time? And go up way soon. And didn't pay it over time, or whatever. There's gotta be some savings associated with that, yeah. The old thing have one worker strip on the eyes can get injured, have a work of keeled and see what happens to our work of comp for eight foot of camp. How do you tell them about the public works? Yeah. Yeah, like these guys are tied up all night and they should be doing everything they have to do already. Fixing some of this keeps breaking over over again. When that sewer loan was put in, they had three or four different contractors. Uh-huh, sure. That's... I'm just gonna keep breaking over again. Because when I served, I was put in, and they had three or four different contractors. And that switched everything up, of course. Yeah. The one right here, you know, where the shell station is, of course, that big house, brick house, it says back, that was put it in upside down, just the lines. But they had, we went out there, and the guy was, he had been and the guy was coming out of his toilet because the line was put in. We tried to stop the project when I took the board that I was on trying to stop the project. We were unable to because the previous board's action was a lie's the action? Thank you, Mother. It was a lot of us. Well, I stood up at the pump station at the high school, looked at the grinder pump. And I said, you know what, that pump goes bad. You don't have to take the insulin, let line the loose, pull the pump. And the engineer said, oh, no, you won't. Well, guess what what it had been in operation two weeks when that pump failed and they had to pull the line and they I'm not an engineer but they took my advice and put a couple 45s into to curve it around that grinder pump. And it'll that grinder pump. You know, it had a grinder pump and there's some several homes that have now. And they got a letter when they were put in and that letter is good till today. Anything going wrong, they're not accounting as responsible. So there was obviously a couple of articles in the Parable Herald about that. About this? Yeah, absolutely. So as far as the courthouse goes, what I've identified is 1.5 million for architecture on engineering services related to design. Now, one of the things I want to bring to the planning commission's attention is we are currently evaluating procurement methods that could impact that number up front and out of pocket. So you have two ways you can really deal with the project. It's a design bid build which means you do your design work and you have an architect and engineer that give you some cost estimates on where you land. Then you got to bid it. Then you got to wait it's a long period of time between a design bid build concept. Once you get your bids in, you typically the lowest responsive and responsible bidder gets the work. Then you have to hire a project manager, you have to hire clerk in the work, you have to do special inspections, and then you've got this big triangle of owner, architect, and contractor, AOC, then they're and they're fighting with each other, the whole project. Now one other solution is what's called a PPEA, which is a public-private partnership. It's in Virginia. They do allow for counties to create PPEA guidelines. And what happens is you can solicit proposals for 45 days from companies that may be interested. They would come in, do you take the analysis, meet with staff, do your design work, and come up with the best solution and the most cost effective solution to address the concerns. And then they would give you a not-to-excite amount on the contract. And then they would handle the architects, the engineers, the project managers, and the construction. And you're not fighting in that design- during that design bid build concept and it's called a PPEA process and I think it it's in meeting with staff they all felt that that was the best way to go so and we wouldn't have to come out of pocket with anything up front until we knew what contractor we were going with. I used to do Gordon's family. It worked well because it took their financial responsibility all from the town, but yet we were able to get what we wanted. Correct. And then I used it to buy street shorty parts, a new sweeper. And we got some grant funding for it once it was done. And we also entered into some private contracts with a couple local businesses to do work for them on a weekly basis. It's saved on by the street sweeper, about $70,000 at the $99,000 savings. Approximately about $80,000 I would call correctly. and cost course, the dollars toll road, that's probably the partnership and was done that way. And no. That would be the way to go. Take the burden off the county. So the businessman in me says that there's no free lunch. So in order for a business to be able to meet the demands of the county and to be able to turn a profit versus the other fighting it out deal they're going to cut corn somewhere. So, is that a wise solution? Well, that's a great question. And in any format, there's a trade-off. The key is having people in the right seats to catch that. So if you've got people that are experienced in capital construction, you can catch that. We're doing it with the private development firm, with the town down in North Carolina currently. They wanted a building with a town down the North Carolina currently. They wanted a building put up for office space. And we're handling everything. They're going to be paying for the local offices. a bad minimal rental fee for the offices. However, your additional office space that's going to be medical related, testing labs, that type of time. That's going to return about $350. A square foot on rent to the development firm. In lieu of not, I think the county or the town is going to pay less than $100 a square foot on rental space. In lieu of the decreased rent that they're going to receive, they're getting new office building, new infrastructure as far as computer equipment and all goes. But the developmental firm is getting a 75% rebate on real estate taxes 10 years. Now to your point as well about cutting corners, part of the negotiation process through the PPEA is accountability. So what methods are you going to put in the contract to ensure that they're not cutting corners? I think that's the key. No, I understand that you can try to watch those things. It's just that when a business says max this and then they're under the obligation to meet that, when push-ups the shove, they're going to meet that. They're gonna cut somewhere. They're gonna cut somewhere to meet it. Explain it again so I can explain it to somebody else. Don't quite have it yet. Okay, so you've got DesignBid build. I got that. Yeah, so PPEEA is you you would essentially open up for a 45-day window a request for proposals from interested companies that may want to partner with the county and it would be a turnkey project. So they would take the existing analysis and they would look at the floor plan, they would look at existing buildings, can you repurpose existing buildings, they would offer you solutions at the best possible price and then come back to the county with a turnkey not to exceed amount and a recommendation on how to move forward. So they would handle all of the architectural and engineering, they would handle all the special inspections, they would handle the construction piece and it would be a not to exceed a amount. And give you a good example where you use and do schools do it all the time. Yeah schools do, but using the thing that I was talking about with this tailing Carolina, we're doing. We can bring contract, well, the tailed head based that plan, well, that budget on paying $475 a square foot to build it, which is basically upper range on commercial projects. We were able to bring contractors in that we work with all the time and they've got so many projects, a lot of times the ones we deal with, we don't even put it out to bid. We'll call and say, hey, we got this, we need your best price. They know they're gonna get paid, they know they've got work coming from us. We're putting it up for $300 a square foot. Yeah, the dollar's not gonna, I'm just trying to understand to understand the process. So 45 days they have to come up with a design plan? No, just a proposal. Just a proposal. Yeah, there's no way you can come up with the design plan in 45 days. They would come up with a proposal and then it would be up to staff to evaluate. And we have a courthouse team we've already established. Staff would have to evaluate all of the proposals. They would bring these, if you had, let's say you had three companies, you'd have to interview them, you'd have to talk about methodology, cost, everything, and then score those proposals and then make a recommendation to the board. So now I will tell you, and I'm gonna share with you a horror story when it comes to design bid build. We talked about the animal shelter across the river earlier. Just to give you an idea, we did a design bid build on that project and the architect. Maybe I shouldn't share this because it was it the project was supposed to be a 12 month project. It turned into a-month project. You're stuck with them, right? Until we had to pull the bond. So I'm not going to go into detail, but I'm just telling you, you can really, I'm starting to copy you. Yeah, my arm is getting stiff. Okay. But I'll send him going up. Why am I doing this? It's an absolute horror story. If you've got time after the meeting, I can share it with you. But it's, you can really cost you a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of heartache. If you don't have a good contractor or if you don't have a good architect or if you have neither. I think there's really some interesting opportunity time in like Cumberland counties, First Call for Independent. or if you don't have a good architect or if you have neither. I think there's probably some interesting opportunity time in like Cumberland County's first call for independent and surrounding board of education and resident-walled schools. There's a museum right there next to it right there's got to be some sort of targeted ownership of a certain firm or contractor or advisor or some element of that that should be tied into if nothing else then is a public outreach or community engagement thing. If that makes sense, I don't know, I have an idea that I don't want to build it more, et cetera. As far as it, try and be keeping with historical, that way it doesn't feel like it's, which I would think would be one of the negatives of the, what was the first one called, does that mean? And it just seems like, okay, well it's just, whoever is in charge right now picking out their preferred contractor with their preferred, I don't see a lot of energy or benefits to the one you're talking about. Most of the time, private company is not bound by the same rigs that government is. So it ends up saving government money in the long because you can cut through a lot of the rate Take the second one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, problem time. Provid. That's changed to be the way you go. And the other thing too is when you do, when you work through a design build, build process to your point, then they issue CEOs on everything. I got to change order on every toilet in the building. I got a change order on paint. Oh, we missize the HVAC. Oh, so we're going to have to have a change order and then they can keep coming at you. With change order after change order after change order to try to make some money back. Whereas with the PPEA you can't. You've got like a nearing pre-eventing thing that the school will tie into it. What's that? Like there's gotta be some other ways to tie into that whole thing. With the schools or something. That I don't know. You can hear in contracting, design, like whatever. All right. Okay. Good. All right. Fire and rescue. Ambulance replacement. Right now we have six ambulances varying from 68,000 to 120,000 miles. And we have an ambulance as old as 2006 and as new as 2019. The request is for a new ambulance. We've actually applied for an R SAF grant for a new ambulance, which would be a 70-30 match is what we've requested. This is a high priority. We did purchase two used ambulances last year and I'm not recommending that we do that moving forward. The warranty alone on these units is what's critical because they are extremely expensive to maintain. And we've got to make sure that when we take somebody to the hospital that we're going to make it. The unit that they want to reprise, I wrote with Prince Edward for years. We would often, if the box was in a good situation, and we could add upgrades to their patient box and just have to buy... Rechasic. ...or are they able to box on the unit that they want to repress? Can that be refurbed? Mm-hmm. Can not. A lot of our units, they change the technology on purpose, very frequently, and the cost of upgrading the box to be able to reach assiit you end up kind of having a wash. Mm-hmm. Who changes it on purpose? Well, the industry. The unit... Why is it supposed to need that to be old? Huh? Why is it supposed to be? That's the target that was... That's what I would recommend because if you've got a unit that goes out of service, you've got to have a backup. And you have to be old? Why does it have to be old? Why does it have to be old? Why does it have to be old? Why does it have to be old? Why does it have to be old? Why does it have to be old? Why does it have to be old? Why does it have to be old? Why does it have to be old? Why does it have to be old? Why does it have to be old? So right now I would recommend keeping the fleet at six. Especially if you've got high mileage vehicles and older vehicles. Because here's the thing with ambulances. You could say what's only got 70,000 miles on it. But those things run. But how long does it shut on the call? Motor hours. The motor hours are what matters. We really need to a lot of people that didn't know we'd complain about, well you're trading in a three-year-old ambulance. It's only got 30,000 miles on it. Yeah, but that may have set on a call, I'd lend for two to three hours and demolish doesn't not get as big of a difference as to engine hours. What is it? Engine hours included in the replacement cycle then? That's just the way that we decided to go with the replacement. You know, how many calls and how many miles we've run into here? Six seems like a lot. There's only two operational stations at one time. If you gotta remember, they break down frequently. Well, yeah, how many crews do we have? As far as EMS, we have a 24 hour crew and a 12 hour crew. So we have two crews? We've got six units. Correct. Which means us. Fair. But we don't know how many calls and how many miles are running. It's about 1300 calls a year. 13. How many patients are we transporting? That I don't you're asking a question that I can't answer off and he and most of our calls have been transported to farm going down. It depends. It depends. ever. Chip and ham, Johnson Willis. Because I know that was one of the things that people wanted. And they should. They should go to work. They need to go to work. So what I'm getting at, though, is that just like with the school buses, when they were a six-cylinder gas engine with a light duty pickup frame, we were doing a 150,000 rotating. Now we put these engines in them, heavy duty, everything, duels, and we still want to rotate them at 100,000 or 200,000. I saw somewhere the other day, GM was recommending this is on their larger motors, 750,000 miles from the first overhaul. Now maybe that's for big trucks or whatever. But these things should, they should last 20 years. They should last 20 years. I don't know. It's a dissident. It's a dissident. It's a dissident. It's a dissident. It's a dissident. It doesn't matter. You know the link to how many of them are going to be. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's the federal government has requirements in the junior department of health, for requirements on them that supersedes what the manufacturer or what the engine could do. You've got to trade them out and upgrade in everything. A lot of the frequency, then what it used to be, used to be when I first drew on the squad, we ran vans, conversion vans. You can't now. I'm going to emergency call anymore. It cannot be a crash a ambulance Oh, we don't have any How? How many vans? But just like they have outlawed basically those from crash a emergency vehicles Directs that they've got you've got X number of years, you can use one before you've got a bullet. What year is it? How many? X years. How many? I don't recall on top of my head, but I do know, you can't say 10 or 12 if we don't know. I want to say it's three to four, but I could be wrong. Let me just say this. Remember, it's a $435,000 ambulance that if we got the grant, it would cost us $106,000. If you get the grant, but the older it is, the more likely you are to get the grant. And a lot of times, they go back to the 50-50. You apply for the 70-30 and they come back and say, well, you can't get the 70-30, but will you do 50-50? They did that with Cardinal several times. Then you have to go back to the county and can we do 50-50 and all that. But these things for what we're paying for them should last more than 150,000 miles. I don't... It's a dream, but I think we found out the hard way with the use of this group brought last year. We put more into than that you would have even expected. And I think you can help us. I mean, that help is a case. And you can look at, oh, it's, and this is happening more and more. And I can tell you the proofs in the pudding. I could, I could share with you horror and some of the used vehicles that we have in service and I've made the statement to several people. I may have made it to you too. I can't remember but the color scheme on them is not really appropriate for frontline amylase because on a dark night on an accident scene, they are well lit but to color the gray, blue, gray, just branch into the landscape. And they are very difficult. Well, I can't speak to that at the moment, but what I can tell you is I'm not willing to risk and roll the dice on a life. And based upon what my emergency services coordinators recommended, you know. Well, that's, I mean, do you know that's a, I think that's, I mean, why don't we hell it back everybody? Yeah. Do you know, you can go. Right. Do you know what the national average of actual emergency calls are for all the EMS calls? I couldn't tell you. Two to four percent. Now, figure out how many we helicopter out. You know, it's important. And you remember when you're on the squad if you weren't willing to transport an elderly colon cancer patient with a GI bleed you didn't last on the squad very long because if you thought you're gonna save a life every time you got on, you know, you were nuts. And most of what we're doing is transporting, we have all kind of backup, we have, you know, power-tin, chest-of-feel, if you're cornered Richmond. It's not life-threatening every time you get on ambulance. Now, you know, we've got to have good stuff and all that it is not Life times is it gonna be put out there that one broke down or one didn't show up or we haven't available And then what's the bleed over that somebody saying I'm gonna business here. I'm gonna move here or exactly like that. I Mean if they were that bad they've gotten that bad. Well I mean I think, well that's the justification for having six. Okay. I think- Six is good but I like it would be very nice to have two that were like really nice and that were reliable. You're always going to have issues. It just doesn't matter. Whenever you're dealing with a vehicle that's got, and all the requirements that are on these diesels, death fluid, modules, it's stuff is going to go bad. You have air suspension systems, you know, it, stuff is gonna go bad. You have air suspension systems, things are gonna go wrong on them and you gotta fix them. My feeling is if we're at 1300 calls a year, roughly, that's over three and a half calls a day. And that's only gonna go up as more and more homes are built through in Cargisville. So we can't have enough people to put into this. Yeah, well we're going to go to Cobb's Creek. It's fully operational to people there. We want to see a greater demand from that. We want to see a greater demand from our things in the counties like State Park. It's going to high parades for trail. You know, it's getting more and more numbers. We're responsible for that. I mean, I can say in 18 years, I was only on two calls that the ambulance broke down. It's broken down by 10 times in the last year. And by on call. But Prince Edward, which I wrote with my lawyer. Well, not the same one, but there's a kind of a lawyer. We have a curator, turnover of our units. Most of the time our units, the only state in service for two to three years before it was a reprace or it went to a second or third-eye unit. And we got a lot of criticism from some people about doing it that way. But like I said, in 18 years, I only had two ambulances break on a collar. Is this all outfitted with all the lifts and the structure? Turned key. And also going back, you know, when I first started, we had to manually lift the patient in. Well, now EMS requires a hydraulic or electronic lift so the EMTs do not lift to patients. Well to me there's nothing more important than residence health and safety. You know, the one thing you got to have the people there at the squad. I'm a good ass guy. I have a bad taste among now about that. You know about that. Yeah. That's happening a lot, then. That's, I mean, that's, like, that leads over into... If they're on a call, you know, sometimes you got to call them mutually. Oh, I wish. They're not going to call. They're not going to. All right. Steering for the sponsor team part of Center say that again. Oh, are we still EMS still still third party contract? Yeah, we are evaluating costs associated with bringing it in house and what that would look like button. That's still TBD. But I mean this seems to be very reasonable to me and I think we need to keep it in that. Okay. I support that. You know, as long as you get the grants and that's the big thing. But it's not, you know, it's just unreal for what they cost and one of the rate data was fastest would be sometimes. I mean, we just bought a new hers, like I showed you two on 25,000. And that's all the data person and no equipment. So as far as the Carter's little phone truck and the apparatus SUV, those were requests from the volunteers. I'm going to work with them on some grant funding opportunities to try to get those acquired. The station one generator, you can see the picture of it there to the right. That's the generator for the rescue squad. It's I believe it was purchased used 20 years ago if I'm not mistaken and it's just something that we need to keep on our radar to replace. We've got some VDM infrastructure. That's much more ridiculous thing. They have a pharmacy in there. You're gonna buy a 400,000 on endos, but if there's a storm, we need to have like... It works. It works, but yeah it works, but it's just time to replace it you know I haven't heard it doesn't work well they still own the carceral building they should have switched that that was a nice you know almost new generator down there that may not be a mechanical problem I'll check into it but I haven't that has not been reported to me. And that I mean they might be able to buy that generator. Yeah. Which one? The um the carceral resties one, because it's already sold. Yeah. It's already sold. Billy sold that? Yeah, but they still they might want to show the generally I don't think so because of the potential development that's gonna Fun trip Didn't hurt to ask yeah All right, the next categories are related to the parks and wreck gymnasium roof right now Now that's coming in at 1.3 and that's one option. We're still working through options to repair that roof. So my request is to leave that as it is until we find other solutions for that roof and other ways to be able to fund that. Bear Creek Connector Trail is this right here, this exhibit. We did receive grant funding probably two years ago from the tobacco commission to connect the dead end of Foster Road to the trailhead there in the Cumberland State Forest. The price on that is around $430,000 and that's grant funded now at 50% and there are opportunities to match that. I don't want to commit any money to this project. It's a low priority. It's a nice city. It'd be good for economic development but I don't want to go. That's not my focus right now. So as far as IT and information technology, we do have switches that need to be replaced, going to cost about 140,000 dollars. This is the one I had a problem with. I talked about it last year too. What's that? This is like on one of the lowest priority rankings. And how much other stuff doesn't get done because of this? Because of what? The IT problems. It's a high priority. I was looking at this package. Maybe I had the the dog. No, it's high priority. It's a three on this. That's what was submitted. To me, it's a high priority. I want the IT stuff needs to be taken care of. 100%. I don't think that's just something we got to do. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, that's a high priority from my perspective. Compared to other things, there's not a whole lot of it. It's not a big, huge, big effort. Right. That is good at that one. You have to do it. You have to communicate. People can't call in here. Like, the stuff's breaking all the time. I don't disagree with you. I don't know. That one is... Yep. a lot of our stuff is done because it doesn't work. Well that's not acceptable. So we have to replace it. You said you used to be in the road. with you. I don't know. That one is. Yep. A lot of our... You get done because of all these. Oh, well it doesn't work. Well that's not acceptable. So we have to replace it. You get used to it. You've broken all the time. The amount of stuck in it. It's just... Like if you're using... It's just like the aim is there. If they have to come work at eight, They're not focused on working, they're focused on fixing. Correct. So, any questions on that one? The schools request. Now, I can tell you as much as I can about these, but the schools are not here, but ADA playground, as Chip has a list as a low priority, he has most of these listed as a low priority. Restroom and concession stand facility at the football field, athletic field lighting, that's $400,000 per year for two years. So it'd be $800,000 in total. The high priorities, the elementary school roof replacement at 1.1 million. Question for you. Yes. Sorry, the athletic field lighting. I think there was a question last week. We have lighting at the athletic at the football field. This is not for that, is it? No, it would be the baseball field. And then I think a multipurpose field, if I'm not mistaken. It's just about your improvement though at the baseball field. They may be going to like, that's the, that's the restroom. I think the sessions came in on the last day. Not that it was just lighting though, improvement. they may be going to like that's the that's the restaurant They may be upgrading some of the lighting Yeah, it could be LED lighting because the lighting that they have there is pretty old and The LED lighting is much more cost effective solution and if you're gonna go ahead and do it on one field you do it on the other that could be a thought process there. But the biggie is the roof replacement on the elementary school. The elementary school actually has two roofs. They've got a flat roof and then more of a pitch roof and the pitch roof needs to be replaced. It's original from 1996. It's a high priority. So and with that just need feedback from you all related to the priorities to funding opportunities, creative solutions, projects that may be pushed out and then any other questions you may have. Connect generator from the generator from the prime rest of the thing be repurposed to public works or something else if it's still functional? I can check. I don't know what they could use for. Okay. There's something a lot of work like we're going to school. Instead of a usual propane generator. I don't know off the top of my head. You look like propane, of course. That's what I thought. I was at Posh, tip. Yeah. You get the roof set, the gym, you get the roof set, the school. It seems like maybe you're going to do one roof over here, do one roof over there. at the same time maybe get some economies to scale. I don't know, I don't know. And then the generators up the pump down the high demand method, I think they have a tough truck and a drive around here. Or somewhere else. And the foam trucks, you say, should put the pipeline? And we have a foam trailer already. Yeah, I knew they could put the foam trailer. And that's going to be stored at Colonial Pipeline. Is my reason? I wonder if Colonial Pipeline would be willing to contribute to... It's possible. Yeah. Calls to the phone truck. So Colonial Pipeline, that's a good point. And they have a corporate website where you can ask and request certain things. And that's certainly something that we can put in as a request. They do, I believe, two a year, two requests per year. Not really, but it's just a question I have. No, per county. Oh, per county? Yeah. Oh, per locality. Not totally. I was going to say total, I'm like that. No, no, no, no. We just got a vehicle from them. Okay, very nice. Would... Would... Henrico County have... And I'm gonna know you trying to get away from used equipment and all. But I'm wondering if Henrico County would have a yeast or foam truck that they are taking out of service because the foam truck could possibly also be utilized at that facility at Cobb's Creek. That's your all we're your my brother from another mother. So we have a meeting with weren't expecting that tonight. So we do have a meeting with Henrikos deputy fire chief next might be this week. Darren Hurley our emergency services coordinator and specifically with an equipment and materials request such as very thing you stated specific to Cob Cops Creek. So we're working with Henrico to identify some ways to work together to get some use. There's some things used that work. You know, I'm not saying that it's not possible. Or Henrico. Just gotta be selective in it. Henrico, we preached a equipment on a fairly frequent basis. And it was most of the time that equipment did not see the hard use and they have a great maintenance program. And I was wondering too, might the apparatus FQB might also be something you can find? Well I think that might be something I can get from Hanover as well. I try to leverage partnerships and relationships. I mean, we're getting a tanker donation from Gucci on this week. So, I mean, we're going to leverage that anyway we can. And in Rikkel, so, station 8 was station 10 right now in South Gaskins. It had some great water rescue equipment. And that's what we're talking about. That's great. If you could, they reprised that about every two years because they were right down from my office when I was with SCI in the funeral business and they were always getting new equipment. So my, our feedback would be one, I really appreciate all the effort that is being done to find creative opportunities and solutions. I think the county has done a good job on that and I commend you for that and hope that you continue to do that. You know, we're a small lower county, not a lot of tax revenue. And you know, we're constantly being inundated by state and federal regulations to upgrade this and upgrade that and get this and do that. And it's nice when we can have another people help us pay for some of that. So I really appreciate that. The only other common I would make is that you know when we see all these funding requests for all of these things it just goes um trying to forget how I see this nicely. It just reminds me of how much property and how much involvement our county has. Too much. In other words. Okay. I'd be, I'm saying you wonder what our priorities are. I'd be hard pressed to say that there's anything more important than an ambulance, a sewer alliance, and a switch. To me, those would be really big things. You know, another police vehicle would be up there think there's going to be a pressure on them as the county continues to grow. I said sorry, I.T. Ambulance. This is the Suhrine switch. And then what did you just say? You know, I'd have to put ambulance at number one myself. I concur with Mr. Rose and although I would also say the brief at elementary schools are high priority care because that's a fairly, I mean 30 years for a building it's still and we put a lot of money in that building and we went to the future of the county and that building. Part of it. We put the future of the county and that building. Well I'd be honest, when I took my seat on the board and we went through the first budget process, we found out that the previous board had not budgeted any funds for the payment and our first payment was due in September and there was no money to pay it and that's when taxes went up 100% went from 25, 26% on the 100, on the 25, 26% to 51. And you talk about the outcry that we faced. But we actually had to delay the payment, which cost of several hundred thousand dollars in interest to think we put it all from September to February, so we would have money to pay it. And I personally don't want to see damage to the building. So I prefer to see that falling by the ambulance. and then of course the sewer system because you get a sewer collapse. Well the sewer system's already in the works yeah we're gonna we're gonna take care of that. So we could scratch that and then the I-T switch. Okay. HFAC systems would be nice, but even if we couldn't do a half off. I'll never tell my wife I didn't cast my vote for Animal Control. Well here's my thing. The project can be a priority, but it's up to us to find fun. That's correct. So all I'm asking is... Some of these have been priorities since I've been here. Yeah. These are the things you have to look for defending. Exactly. So, and my thing is, I don't want to go, we have a grants team, but at the end of the day, it falls onto just one or two, maybe three individuals to actually do a lot of the work. And that's not to knock anybody, that's just the reality. We don't have a grants person. But I wanna make sure that I'm putting my time, I'm putting Jennifer's time, whoever's gonna manage the grants time into where it needs to go, and we're not throwing darts at a dark a dartboard. It's got to be strategic because it takes time to get this done and the only way to do that is to have priorities. Going back to the pavement to land fields, if the CUP is granted to green ridge, what would it possible to be a green ridge system with some of that pavement? I'll take it under advisement. Okay, that truck is going to be something we could put in. That truck is going to be used in the at least part of the entrance white. But they're also going to be used inside some of the transfer stations because we got them things from Plastic yeah, bottles and what that's what I'm thinking they're going to be using them so maybe you know, they don't want that truck damaged There's very few things we can do that more people that in the county would see than paving those roads. I mean anybody you talk to, you know, they'll tell you that the road to the transfer stations is mess. You know everybody in the county, those little houses there, I mean Everybody in the county. If we grate them over and over again. But there's no sub base really on those roads, and it's just horrible. Where rent, all that stuff in the district can do. But tear it up. And start over and build it like it should be. I can grab 40 bags of coal patch and try to make it work. Well coal patch is not going to stick because there's no setting in them. And sort of people, everybody would see that. You know, I don't know, but the most important thing or not, but it would be certainly something that people would see. Gotcha. Are we agreement on the priority center? Are we comfortable with it? I think the other thing is the same thing, though, far, but it's incredible. Well, I would go into being favored with the ambulance and we can find it. I don't think they're ready for it. The ambulance would be topped by any means. I think the switch may be the roof. I have no other question about the ambulance. I think the ambulance is like, if you could, it would be percent. I think my priority isn't going to be one thing, it's going to be a group. So I think if I've got a general consensus on the group of priorities, then we got to focus on funding opportunities. Yeah, I don't think we're saying come up with the money to buy it and we're saying make it a priority, give the grant fee that they have. Do you have any sense of what a corporate point is? So a corporate partner? Is there somebody in corporate business that we say to some of these things? Always. Any time where there's a corporate opportunity, we're going to take it. I think that's just basically the compressor. Yeah, I think the compressor's probably not the compressor. It's not the compressor. There's a rat-a-noir-shake compressor. So I think it's and when I talk about grant opportunities there are corporate grants out there that we pursue and There are a lot easier to apply for than some of the government grants because the government grants quite honestly are ridiculous But I think as long as I have an understanding of what the priorities are in a bucket, then I can go after funding opportunities to try to make them a reality. All right. I just want to mention one more time please, if we could next year we get this point, if we do a workshop right off the bat. Okay. Okay. If we could have, I agree, I've been doing it for more years than I want to admit. But in the past, we've always sat down and had, with the grant, well, not with grants, but when their request were first presented to the CIP committee and their Administrator, normally we met with their Administrator in late January or early February. Okay. And went over on everything with him or her and We were able to have some input from the start because it was something that we felt could be just disregarded immediately and weren't even considered into final presentation. And grandstands at the football field I think was a grandstand. Well that's actually being really bad because I got grandstands at the football field I think. Grandstands, that's made me really bad because I got Grandstands donated when they pulled them down at Richmond International Raceway. The school just had to go get them and Dr. Griffin refused. But they got the new ones. They got the new ones. Outdoor classroom. Outdoor classroom. But. Well, I will say next year will be earlier. This year quite honestly has been a little overwhelming this spring. There's a lot going on. You just got a lot of things going on. Yeah, I was just worried about the old stuff. Dealing with green ridge has been a nightmare. I'm sure for y'all. No, but we'll we'll no comment. It's like down there. It's just an it's another case. We're just sticking to the process. So, all right. Anybody else have anything to do with? I'm'm in a mood that we have turned to a recordly schedule meeting. April 25th. I'll check in. That's you Steve Donahue. Yes. Hubert Allen. Steve Rosen. Harry Donahue. Yes. William Fetton. Yes. Thank you all for giving me the platform and share with us. Thank you. Thank you for your band work. You got it. And just for note, the motto with you I did not track you in.