This meeting is called to order. The first item on our document today item number two is consideration of the meetings from the April 16th BAR public hearing. Do any members of the board wish to suggest modifications or changes to the minutes from the April 16th meeting? Learning members of the public wish to suggest any modifications to the minutes from the April 16th meeting. Do any members of the public wish to suggest any modifications to the minutes from the April 16th meeting? That being said, can we get a vote? All in favor of adopting the minutes from the April 16th meeting, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. I mean, the minutes are adopted. Miss Helman, would you like to read in the consent calendar? Yes. First, if anyone would like to speak on any particular case, please fill out a speaker's form there in the back of the room and bring them to Mr. Harris here. But our consent calendar is VAR 2025-0051 in the Parker-Grey district for request for alterations at 224 North Fayette Street. Applicant is the architect Harold Smith. We also have BAR 2025-0075 in the Old and Historic District request for alterations at 112 South Alfred Street. the applicant is Shamika Godley, the architect, and find our final consent calendar case is BAR 2025-00094, also in the old historic district. This is a request for alterations at 330 North St. Asif Street, and the applicant is Kim Murray as represented by Harry Braswell, the architect. Would any members of the board like to remove any of the items on the consent calendar? Yes, I'd like to remove one 12 self-alphard stream. All right, that's consent calendar item number four. Number four. Any others? Would any members of the public like to remove either 224 North Fayette or 360 North St. Asaf from the consent calendar? All right. So I think it's. We don't need a roll call for those. Right. Okay. All those in favor of adopting items three and five from the consent calendar say aye aye any opposed All right congratulations if your Application is to 24 North Fayette or 360 North St. Ace F your application is approved Is the applicant 412 self-elf-read here. Would you like to go now or I know you probably weren't planning on it? We can move it to the end of the meeting if you'd like. Okay, so. Okay. Um, I, I had removed this. It's also a question really for staff because it looks like you're requiring the applicant to remove the screening for the mechanical equipment. And if I'm looking at the building section, I don't know if you have that, you can pull it up. It's, I don't know what she did is, maybe she's 15 in my docket, so it looks kinda like, oh that's it. So up, back up, there it is, at the top, the rooftop section. So it looks like it's up and done edge and it would require a guard rail regardless. So is staff requiring them just to remove the screening from the guard rail? Seems like that, that was appropriate. No, the staff felt that the, it would look, the sheet, sorry, felt that the screening was actually too prominent, that it would look better without the screening. It would be minimally visible. Okay. Well, I guess my concern was it's going to be a guardrail regardless. And it's going to be that high. I personally thought the screening is going to look better than just an expo of guardrail and seeing the chemical equipment. So then if the BAR would like, that the BAR could instead of going with the staff recommendation to get a waiver of rooftop screening approve what the applicants requested and approve their rooftop screening. Is that what you're thinking? That's what I'm thinking. Okay. Yeah. I'd like to hear from the applicant too, but I think that's what I think. I think that's what I think. I think that's what I think. I think that's what I think. I think that's what I think. I think that's what I think. I think that's what I think. I think that's what I think. I think that's what I think. I think that's what I think. I think that's what I think. I think that's what I think. I'm in the industry. Okay, so I'd like to get the opportunity to weigh in. If you could just state your name and address for the record. Then let us know. It appears that in your application you have asked to'd like to comment on that, feel free. So my name is Alana Dills. I'm the project manager. This is Shmiqa Godly. She's the owner of the company that I work for as Godly Architects. Can you state a address for the record? I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. An address for just for the record. The company address? Any address? Yeah. Public meeting requirements. 0-3-103-2. 10320, little Patux. You can speak into the mic, sorry. 10320, little Patux in Parkway, sweet 200, Columbia, Maryland, 21044. Okay, thank you. All right, now that I won't interrupt you again, go ahead. We're correct. We would need a guardrail and we did feel that the screen was a more aesthetically pleasing choice. This is as low as we can make it while still hiding the equipment. Right. And if I understand the damage that allows you to access pipes underneath, so I think it's a good solution. If that's acceptable to the board, then we appreciate your time. Do any other members of the board have questions for the applicant? Would anyone like to make a motion? Make a motion to approve her staff recommendations with the exception of the waiver for the screening. I want to be clear. I think we actually have to approve a waiver of, no, no. And without the waiver, we don't want to approve the waiver. Right. We don't have to approve. Yeah, so you want to approve what they submitted. Yes. We're requesting a certificate of appropriateness. Yes. Yes. Prove as submitted by that, look at it. I second that. Thank you. All right. All those in favor? Hi. Hi. Any opposed? All right. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Ms. Helman, who's next? Okay, next on the docket we have BAR 2025-0000072, Old and historic request for alterations at 430 South Washington, and BAR 2025-007-3, recussed for partial demolition and encapsulation at 430 south Washington. Applicants are Tony Stor, represented by Duncan Blair. Is the applicant here? Yes, you know it. Sorry, you can come up to the microphone. And we'd be happy to hear a presentation or or if you'd like to just answer questions from the board, that's fine. I'd just like to answer questions from the board. Sure. So if you could just stay your name and then address. I'm Dario Davies. I'm the project architect. It looks like the staff recommended approval. And we will comply with the BAR window performance specifications when we submit our permit. Thank you. Can you state an address for the record? Yes, it's 430 South Washington Street, Alexander of Virginia. Thank you. I do any members of the board have questions for the applicant? I do have a question for you. I'm sure you can answer it. So you give us... I do have a question for you. I'm sure you can answer it. So you gave us the light strip section, and it didn't seem to align with the coping section that you have. I was wondering how that light strip was hitting in there. The coping section, this goes across the top of the building, would be a profile where a LED strip light would be not glued, screwed into a cavity so that you, oh, sorry, this is the owner, Tony Saur. So that when it's on, all you see is the light washing the white brick wall and you never see the light. And even if you stand underneath it, sort of like what you see here, the idea, it's an indirect light that just washes the wall like you see it's still in here in your coat. Okay, so you'd never see it because it looked like it was a 45 degree angle. I wasn't sure if you're actually going to be seeing that. Okay. No. Do any other members of the board have questions for the applicant? Do any of members of the public wish to speak on this application? Have you filled out a speaker for me yet? That's all right. Come on up and we'll just make sure you fill out a speaker. You can go over here to the lectern on my left. You're right. Please just state your name an address for the record. And you'll have three minutes to speak, unless you're speaking on behalf of a civic organization in which case you'll have five minutes. I'm Peter Lang. I live at 6-01 Wilk Street apartment 403 in the Tanannery House. In general, I've been speaking with the other people by building and the people I've talked to as said that in general they support the design. There does seem to be, and I realize going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. They haven't been touched in decades from what I can tell. I've lived at the building for 12 years, and certainly I'm been touched in that time. And one of the openings was a formally a doorway. And the top part has been turned into window, but the bottom is plywood that is decaying. And I was just hoping that with all the activity in the front of the building and on the side that some potential would be paid to the rear facade just to make sure that it's in good shape. Thank you. And just make sure you fill out a speaker form. Mr. Harris, do you have a speaker form? Oh, you have one, great. I'd be happy to give you an opportunity to respond. You want to respond to that, Tony? So I think it's basically a regard in the wooden piece of wood. That's your answer. Yes. The wind opening, the former doorway that's got the plywood, as well as the windows themselves, they just need some help. I mean, they just look kind of the window, the venting window, you mean? The venting window, as well as the three windows that are with buttons and where the cocks falling off and it just needs to say. Yeah, basically everything's gonna be we already reviewed all those issues and we consider replacing anything you need to be replaced or fixed. Okay, thank you. And and basically also the rear of the the rear facade of the building, which is now still have the original brick color. I know that we're not gonna paint it, so it's still matched the building behind it. So it's not gonna be white like the rest of the building has gotta stay brick color, right? Okay, thank you. Thank you. And I will note that new synths complaints are really outside the purview of the board. And of course, you can always make a report to the city if you think there's a violation of the board of architectural review guidelines or any other city ordinance. Yeah, go ahead, Ms. Delano. I did have another question about that coping. First of all I think it's going to be a wonderful improvement. I think taking off that man's hard bulkhead is very heavy and I'm sure the new bakery will be just as good or better than firehook which I already missed but I'm I'll frequent this one. I was just wondering about the coping, because it's eight inches from the brick wall. I don't know if it can be a little bit narrower. I wasn't sure, you know, proportionally. It's interesting. It will be narrower, because what my client has requested is that he wants to go with the coping that runs straight across the corners that runs straight across Which means we'll be able to pull it back to the building so that that gap underneath won't be more than then four inches off the original face. I think that's an improvement Right Are there any are there any other public speakers on this application? You have a question. Oh, OK. Good. Hi, one question was, since this is a wall washer, what they're being foreign to the wave from the wall is they're in concern. You're just going to get kind of a white wash hot spots from the LEDs as they wash down the wall. Will they show what? When sometime when light is too close to the wall, it actually kind of doesn't give the effect of washing down the wall. It kind of just gets stuck at the top of the wall. No, we'll design it so that you see what... If you look at the cove lighting above, that's what it's going to look like. But it'll look like on a straight vertical wall. But we'll make sure that it's not that close. But I think the light fixtures up there are probably a good little distance away from the vertical wall, which is, I mean, that's a big piece of crown moating up there. Right. pulls it further away and you're saying yours is going to be about four inches from the face of the wall, right? Maybe more, maybe six, who knows? But we do, we do, we do, the idea is that the light is tucked up behind the enclosure so that the only way you can see it is, you have to have your face against the wall to look up. If that concern is, will there just be a bright spot at the top of the wall and not really wash down the wall? That's the case. They didn't wash down the wall, okay? Are there any other questions? You had two options for the top part, one raised and one just straight going. Do you have a preference on which option to use? My clients come back and said that they like the straight cornice, which I think is option B. Just wanted to say I know we all love fire hook, but I'm really glad Echloron is coming because I'm a big fan. Excuse me. I go on a weekly basis to E around. So glad to see you in all time. Are there any other public comments on this application? Okay, so we'll close the public portion of the hearing in. We'll open up to deliberative comments from the board members. Mr. Lions, do you have any comments? No, I don't have any comments. I support the project. Mr. Spencer. Mr. Nino. I think it's going to be a great project. Is Andy in? No more comments. Yes. Well, I echo all the comments of my colleagues on the board. I think it's a beautiful design. And I think removing the added-on man's roof is a really nice touch. So, thank you. Would anyone like to make a motion on this application? A motion to approve per staff recommendations. OK. Miss Elman? Yes. Okay. Ms. Zondion? I? Mr. Spencer? I? Ms. Del Nino? I? Mr. Lions? I? And Mr. Scott? I? Congratulations. Thank you. All right. What's next Ms. Homan? Our next case is BAR2025-00101. Old and Historic District requests for alterations at 403 South Pitt Street and BAR2025-00106. Old and Historic District requests for partial demolition and encapsulation at 403 South Pitt Street. The applicant is William Cromley Architect. I'm Bill Cromley. I'm representing Andrew Trust and Christine Carroll. I agree with staff's recommendations. I just want to explain why we actually originally proposed slate. I mean asphalt shingles on the back in lieu of the original slate. We did it for three reasons. One is it's a second half of the 20th century building, too, is minimally visible from the street. And three, and most importantly, is we're putting our rooftop AC there, because there's already one in the yard, and we didn't want to further clutter the yard with the bulk of another condenser and the noise. So we're putting it on the roof and hiding it by the proposed dormer. And we're concerned that over the years people will have to do maintenance to that. And anybody who knows anything about slate knows that if you know what you're doing, you can avoid breaking it. But we're concerned that maintenance over the years will damage it in a way that it couldn't be repaired because it's so high up and because there are very few people that know how to do it. In lieu of the asphalt shingles, though, I did talk to a roof that I work with today and we would propose as a compromise synthetic slate for the same reasons one, maintenance two, it's minimally visible and what the slate have to be able to have to have to be able to have to have to be able to have to have to be able to have to have to be able to have to have to be able to have to have to be able to have to have to be able to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have Thank you. There are any members? pass but in this particular instance we think that's the most appropriate substitution for the original slate Thank you for any members have questions for the applicant So for the Shed roof though you have an EPD M roof Can you use the synthetic slate in that application to or no because it's a flat Flat roof and we would never propose a P.D. M in the historic district unless it couldn't be seen at all it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it No, but it's a flat roof. It would never propose a BDM in the historic district unless it couldn't be seen at all. It's got a one-pitch. Right. But it looks like it's aligned exactly with the slate roof at the ridge. So I don't know once you get into CDs if you can lower that detail a little bit. Sure. Yeah. We'll certainly need the original cap of the slate shingles at that intersection, but it's a good observation. Okay. Sure. Do any other members of the board have questions for the applicant? Are there any public speakers on docket item 8 and 9? All right, so we'll close the public discussion on this item and open it up to deliberative comments from the board. Would anyone like to weigh in? I could make a motion to approve the application based on staff recommendations. Would that include the option for the select. Yeah, would be a synthetic slate option. So modification to staff recommendations to allow the synthetic slate. I will note that it's not an early building and we have approved synthetic slate in other uses and it's really not very visible from the right of late. So I would support that. Would any other members like to comment or give a second to Miss Delinos motion? Second. All right. This element I think we have demolition here. Yes we do. Ms. Zondion. Hi. Mr. Spencer. answer. Ms. Alman, I think we have demolition here. Yes, we do. Ms. Zondion? Hi. Mr. Spencer? Hi. Ms. Del Nino. Hi. Mr. Lyons? Hi. And Mr. Scott. Hi. Thank you very much. Congratulations. All right, what's next? OK. Next up is BAR 2025-00104 in the Olden Historic District. This is a request for alterations at 417 South Royal Street. Is the applicant here? Come on up. You can head to this microphone. Good evening. Please state your name and an address for the record. Sean Murphy for 17 South Royal Street. And you're welcome to give us a presentation or answer questions however you'd like to proceed. Just a quick summary I think that the staff's recommendation was for approval. This is a small accessory dwelling structure in the rear of our yard with very little visibility to a public right away. It's 12 by 20 using traditional sort of materials, hindsight, cedar windows and a copper roof. Happy to take any questions. Does any member of the board have questions for the applicants? Go ahead, Ms. Delano. You can ask as many questions as you like. Unlimited questions. So this is basically prefabricated building that you've been bringing in and I'm thinking you may have different options with that building. Like if you wanted to put a shed roof instead of this gable roof or. Yeah, there's different options. These are built in Lancaster by Amish Carpenters. I think there are different options. We thought that a, was it raised seam copper roof was kind of the most appropriate for the area. And we have kind of a metal seam on a small porch on the side of our house. And so would, the materials, I think slightly different, but other than that, it kind of would be in line with that vibe. That's probably not the architectural word. Yeah, I think it's, I don't have any problem with the accessory dwelling unit. I'm just thinking it's maybe looking a little more elegant or then your current building. And I'm wondering if it's possible to be simplified, maybe the windows I see they have mutants in them just because it is an accessory dwelling unit. And it's, yeah, I think we could take that under consideration. Point of information that the windows won't be viewed, you won't be able to see the windows from the public right away. but I think we could take that under consideration point of information that the windows won't be viewed You won't be able to see the windows from the public right away But I think just as a kind of an aesthetic measure that's something we could think about so that goes along with the The look of the house We have engaged in architect to help with as well Mr. Spencer a couple of questions and it's getting into kind of the detailing of this thing and I know it's a pre-fab but looking at the elevations. Yeah, this is a good picture. Like the head over the doors and the windows, like there should be at least a little little piece of trim. Well, either the door needs to get a little shorter or the whole structure needs to be raised a little bit so that there's actually the door isn't breaking the cornice as it goes by. That's a really strange and difficult detail, I think, to pull off. And the windows are the similar detail where there's no trim at the top of the window, they just kind of die into the corners. Which is a weird, a strange detail that is atypical. I know this isn't mentally visible, but that's just, It doesn't look proportionally correct. There's something off about the way that tops of the windows and tops of the doors almost die at the roof line itself. So if you, I mean, I would just ask your builders to consider either a shorter door or a slightly taller building. Yeah. we can look into that as well. We had considered sort of like an awning over the main door and that was some option. I don't know the full optionality of what we can do there, but we can definitely consider if there's any specific changes that the staff would like to see. Yeah, I think staff, we should look at that. Are there any other questions from the board? Are there any public speakers on this application? All right, we'll close this application to public comments and open it up to any additional board comments. that anyone move to the motion. I'd like to create a motion to approve this application. Working with staff to have us slightly simpler design and addressing some of the items that Mr. Spencer mentioned. You know. Cornish details. The cornice, the height of the cornice, leaving it open to add a possible small canopy over the front door, possibly a shed, a gable roof instead of the hip roof you're showing. And that would be to work with staff on that issue. Right. Okay. Is there a second for that motion? Second. Miss Omen? And this is not a row call vote. Okay. All those in favor? I. I. Any opposed? All right. Congratulations. What do we have next? Okay. Next we have. Let's request for Applewick Cation. Authorations at 910 King Street, and BAR 2025-00154, Old and Historic, request for partial demolition and encapsulation at 910 King. The applicant is 910 King LLC, represented by Roman Asanchez Architect. Please state your name and address for the record. My name is Rumanna Sanchez. I'm with Sanchez Palmer Architects. The address is 215 North Paine Street, Alexandria. And would you like to make a presentation? We have a small presentation. And mostly they are photographs of the King Street area and Old Town that show the elements that we've been trying to bring into this. But I also first want to say that we very much support the staff recommendations and look forward to working with them. So if we can have the first slide. These are just, there's two slides here that just show the different roof elements that we have looked at in combination with other elements that are close by the house and can go to the next slide. So there's just a variety of roof elements all through Old Town. And we looked at a lot of them for the railing around the house, around the structure. The next slide is a variety of railings that we looked at since where the roof has a railing all the way around it for the roof terrace. So we looked at those. The next slide also shows a few more. We also looked at the buildings that have been painted which is the next slide and the variety of different colors that they have all around. So just to support the fact that we're going to paint the sides of this building. 910 King on the top, not yet. The top middle photograph also shows a Victorian style building. And we would like to work with staff to be able to paint some of the elements on the windows very similar to the keystone that is painted on this house. So we do ask for that for the board to consider if we can work with staff on that. The next slide shows the block elevation of that block that shows 910 King next to a future development that has been approved. And we just wanted to compare the height of our building with the other two. And I'm sure we'll be talking about the height of the railing on this building. And that's all I have to say. Thank you. Would any member like to start with questioning? Yeah, just I think it's more of a clarification, but you said you're going to paint the sides of the House. Is that correct? But you agree with staff recommendations. That is correct. The two this two sides and the rear. So it's the east, south and west elevations are in the brick isn't pretty bad shape and we're going to be fixing that doing all the repair work and painting those. They have been previously painted. Okay. Would you agree with the board or the staff denying the painting of the King Street elevation? That's correct. Okay. Except we do, we would like to be able to work with staff to paint a few of the work elements that are on the facade of the North elevation, similar to the Keystone. Okay. I showed. Thanks. Any other questions from the board before we open up to the public? All right, are there any publics? Oh, sorry, Miss Del Nino, I see your mic is on. Who from the public would like to speak on this application? I do have two speaker forms for this item. The first speaker I have is Gail Rothrock. All right. Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members of the board. G Rothrock for the record representing historic Alexandria Foundation. As you all are probably aware, HF has long had a historic plaque program. It was started in the urban renewal era in 1965 and we now have over 700 historic plaques. To be eligible for an HAF plaque, the building must retain, must be a hundred years old, and must retain its architectural integrity. And I would submit that this building currently does. Its principle of facade is unaltered and is quite handsome. Directly across the street at 913, King Street is a gorgeous Queen Anne Victorian. And we awarded the Commercial Honor Applied for a plaque in 2007. And we awarded the plaque that year as well as a preservation award for its very outstanding integrity. So according to history in the staff report, which was quite interesting, this building at 910 Kingsbury was originally constructed in 1854, 55, and in 1892, the third story was at it. And so now this three story, Queen Anne, currently is totally eligible for a historic plaque. But if it is guzzied up as some of these plans until it would immediately become ineligible. So I'm going to cover a number of steps the owner can take to ensure that he is still eligible for one of our plaques. First, absolutely, the principal facade or its element should not be painted. Second, any recointing must be very carefully executed and see the joint letter that OTCA and HAF submitted to you all the recommendation number seven. And I quote, preserving the details of the machinery of the property is critical. The crisp, extruded red brick and dark red mortar butter joints give the highly articulated facade of uniform sculptural expression that is virtually unmatched before or since this Victorian period. This repair work must be fairly carefully executed and monitored. Third, the brick facade must be carefully cleaned as gently as possible following the guidance in our letters recommendation number eight. Fourth, the front door on the interior of the vestibule looks to be original and it appears to be in fine condition. We recommend that the BAR require that it be retained and your guidelines emphasize retaining these historic doors. Fifth, if a new storm door is approved, it must be full light with clear glass. And sixth, if a handrail is desired, it must be single open handrail with careful mounting and supervision to ensure that the historic sandstone stoop is not fractured. And I also ask why there's a need to paint this historic sandstone. Seventh, if carriage lamps are to be approved, replace the proposed ornate carriage lamps with a style appropriate to the late 19th century Victorian period year. And 8th, I recommend attaching no signage to this fine facade and certainly not on the front of the proposed roof deck, but put an appropriate blade sign at the location of the existing blade sign bracket. If the applicant were to do only these things, he might still be eligible for a plaque. And regarding the proposed roof deck, please see all the comments in the OTCHAF letter, recommendation number one. First, it should be set back approximately six feet and be flush with the north face of the north chimney. It should be lowered to a maximum of seven inches above the adjacent existing roof at the high side of the roof slope. The proposed stair plant house should be lowered to the minimum necessary in line with a lower roof deck surface. And the flood light should be eliminated as suggested in our joint letter recommendation number four. Finally, please defer this case for a restudy and resubmission to address some of these significant requested modifications. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Rutherock. Any questions? Who's next? Next speaker is Stephen Malone. Mr. Malone, are you representing a civic association today? No, Mr. Waikel-Anne is going to do that after me. So, Steve Malone, giving Mr. Chairman members the board. I already said it. 907 Prince Street, actually going to go to the district. I'm going to go to the district. I'm going to go to the district. I'm going to go to the district. I'm going to go to the district. I'm going to go to the district. I'm going to go to the guidelines of the standards that we have and the Secretary of the Interior has for the Under the National Park Service. Most of what they're planning, I think should be denied or at least deferred for further study and evaluation. None of the brick should be painted. The Sony ordinance says you can only repaint that is is all it is painted now. There are some remnants of paint on the first floor of the west side, but that's it. Most of it was never painted. And the brick is in bad shape on the west, south, and east sides and needs to be repointed. And once they do that work and replace the broken bricks and missing bricks, it will look look gorgeous and it shows the patina of age just like the front does. It's very clean. It has some dark darkness that would clean up with gentle cleaning as appropriate for it. As was mentioned by Mr. Authrock, it has very narrow butternife joints that are not only are the joints very very narrow, but it's actually has a blade has been placed below the brick and above the brick. So this little bit of mortar just sticks out, line mortar and nothing should be done to that front, except three plates where the mortar is missing. That goes into signage. Signage is well way too extensive, as Mr. Rothock said, they should use the blade sign. There's already some existing small panels next to the door that could be used for signs, and the zoning ordinance permits 20% of windows to have signs. So, they'll have signs in front and sides that can be seen from both sides when you're walking along on the blade sign. No railing should be put into the Santa Cascantan stone. And it should be left as it is in situ. the zoning ordinance says that you can have a 12 inch stoop encroaching. Like most of the historic district you can have a four inch stoop. I mean a four foot stoop. On King Street you're only allowed to have 12 inch. So this is already a non-compliant structure that's allowed to continue forever because it exists but that would be expansion of the non-compliant use by putting the railing in there and you could damage it. If you do I do recommend derailing that I recommend that it be mounted into separate bricks on either side of the stone. the . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and The parapet should just be eliminated. As Mithrao Throck said, the deck is way too high. It's sticking up between that and the extended stair, sticking 15 feet above a basically 30 foot tall house, increasing the height by 50%. This will all be very visible. It's visible now, all from the public right of way, whoever you own the city parking lot, and even afterwards there's gonna be a 10 foot alley along this house, where it's an easement is required place there so it will be a pedestrian pass through. The light shouldn't be placed around the building, the uplights, those would all encroach on the city parking lot or the future alley, and the city's in street right of way. Thank you, Mr. Long. Thank you very much. Do we have any other speakers on this? I think he said Mr. Moan said Ms. Callahan may want to speak as as well. Yes, the next speaker is Ivonne Callahan, representing the Old Town Civic Association, and Ms. Homanan may want to speak as well. Yes, the next speaker is Evonne Kelleyan, representing the Old Town Civic Association. And Ms. Homan is currently passing out our printed email related to Ms. Kelleyan's comments. Can you talk more? Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members of the B.A. Board of Architecture Review. In the event that Steve would like to have more comments, I'm happy to yield a few of my my minutes I don't think I'll take five anyway Steve did you want to add anything else? Go ahead we can probably talk all evening Yes, we could there's a lot it be nice we could talk in front of the building. It's beautiful We recommend that there not be any lanterns placed on this Front of this house building you would have to drill holes through this beautiful brick to do it but there's an existing city light pole and as most of us know if you've walked around, the city lights that are erected are two bright really. And there's one immediately in front of the edge of the stoop right around the center of this building that lights the stoop up so much you could perform surgery on the steps but at least read all night it doesn't need any lighting. So it would just be decorative and this house doesn't need it. It would just take away and diminish from the. We have a lot of property that we have. We have a lot of property that we have. We have a lot of property that we have. We have a lot of property that we have. We have a lot of property that we have. We have a lot of property that we have. We have a lot of property that we have. We have a lot of property that we have. We have a lot of property that we have. in this era between 1880 and 1890 And there's plenty of examples that match and would fit a pretty appropriate to the store The we hope the parapet would just go away in addition that parapet not always inappropriate in its scale and location design Signed as an appropriate and also is obscuring the top of the brick bay that projects up to kind of emphasize the verticality of that section of the bay. So you look above that, there's the Corbill Corners, and then there's the metal cornice above that, and then you have where the two-story bay projects, it's not very deep. It has that part of brick that extends above it, and it really accentuates it and gives the asymmetry that's typical of this Victorian or building. Let me talk to them. Oh, and the trees. If anything, for any of the work that's going to be done here, there are cities, trees, the sea trees, and the parking lot, and the one that's in the the planter and the oak tree in the front of the. I'll have to be protected. It's going to be hard to work around those trees to do the side recording, but they should do the best they can. Thank you. Ms. Callahan, you have about ten minutes left. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Avon Waitkall. I live at 735 South Least Street. And I am the current President of Old Town Civic Association. Thanks to Galen's team's research here and the joint email that we prepared and sent to staff to convey to you. I think we've outlined our issues quite clearly. This building is simply not appropriate for flood lights up to 3,000 lumens if you're looking just to the literature that was provided to you. It was one of these buildings that are all my years here in Old Town. I hadn't really stopped and looked at it and looked up and down and around. It is a jewel. And there's a twin to it right across the street, which is also a jewel that was well in its time, had been remodeled, I think, quite well. This just needs in, I hate to say important. I think that's what I think is really important. I think that's what I think is really important. I think that's what I think is really important. I think that's what I think is really important. I think that's what I think upon and then we can look at it all over again to see what what common ground there may have been found but then there doesn't seem to be anything here. It's just not a good application. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Kellyanne. Mr. Harris, are there any other public speakers on this? I don't have any more speaker forms. All right. We'll close the public comment portion of this. Just to address the applicant, there was some discussion of deferral. It's helpful if I just mention there are a couple of ways that we could proceed here after you receive comments from the board. One is you could ask for deferral to consider the comments of the public and the board and then come back at the earliest opportunity, which is usually about a month is about as quickly as you can come back because we've already posted the document for the next meeting. And ask for reconsideration for the certificate at that time. on its own could defer deliberation, but then we would have to essentially resume deliberation at the next meeting. Or the third is you could ask for a vote for the certificate of appropriateness. And if it's approved, it's approved. If it's not, you can always appeal to the city council. So that's sort of the landscape, but the most flexible option is you asking the board for a deferral and then you can take time redesign and then bring back a new design. By no means do you have to do that though. Okay, with that said, would any member of the board like to open up with the deliberative comments? Mr. Spencer? I'm a start with just one and I want to say that I may come back with additional questions. Yes, of course. All right. I'm going through this application and I just want to confirm that you guys are looking to remove the sandstone steps or paint the paint the sandstone steps. That is correct. The sandstone steps, it's worn quite a bit. So there's a real big dip in it. So that was why we were looking to to repair it and paint it. Okay. And Chairman Scott, can I chime in for a minute? Yeah, for sure, but we need to get your name and address for the course. I'm not sure if you can see the address. I'm not sure if you can see the address. Scott, can I chime in for a minute? Yeah, for sure. But we need to get your name and address for the course. This is the first time you've spoken on this. Of course. And I would have done so earlier, but I didn't want to mess up her jobs. So I'd like to address that actually what she just mentioned about the steps was also being thought of and considered. We met out on the site both with Susan Ann Bill relative to the safety aspect of the steps. We've already actually had someone fall and had an issue from that that was quite substantive, but we addressed it and we certainly don't want that to become a public safety hazard moving forward again. In fact, I almost, you know, I too, I almost, I felt like I dislocated my knee, but I guess I'm, I wasn't that bad, so I survived. Is it okay, at this point to make comments, is some of the comments that have been made or is it better to hold on? I'm going to go ahead. Okay, I just didn't want to just confirm. confirm it's your application. Yeah, you know, I'm talking to the public comments that were made Yeah, that's fine. Thank you, Chairman. So It's nice to see Steve as well as Gayle again. I've seen them on several of my projects as nice to see them both again As far as the project is concerned there are some elements which I think would be very useful for the public Comment to commenters to be aware of which is, we spent a very substantive substantial amount of time, as you could see through some of the photographs, looking at King Street from a perspective of elements that would work within the confines of the building that we have. Also looking at the history. In fact, there are some comments made about, well, this has never actually galed made the comment that this had never been, this building had never been in any way tampered with as far as the exterior. Well, in fact, had been because the front had been torn out when it was a Greek revival, and now it's been turned into a Victorian. So there was actually substantive elements that had been impacted. Also, and I won't go into all the items, I'll just say that we have spent a very diligent amount of time going through each one of these items and have, and those depictions which, you know, a lot of went through, they were intended to show you that the things that we were proposing were not things outside of the scope of what already exists within that corridor and within a very close, and in some cases, in very close proximity. That being said, there was also a comment just made about trees. Those trees are already slated to go in the new plan. So they're already slated to go. The Arborist already signed off, it's already ready to go. It's just a matter of the app, the current contract owner of the lot next door to follow through with his development plans. And so, and the reason I know that is I was interested in myself if he decided not to proceed to take care of the product myself. So I looked very diligently into these trees because I really didn't want to keep them. But fortunately that has already been addressed. That being the case, the other elements of the building as far as painting, that Steve also made a comment about that. So every side of this building has some level of painting. The three levels, the three sides that we agree with staff on as far as the two sides in the back have the most substantive. In fact, one of the, one of the sides has arrows painted into it. So literally we have arrows in the alleyway where the trash cans currently are being placed behind a gate. And anytime Steve or Gail want to come by and take a look at the arrows, they'll show you the way right around the bowl building. Happy, happy to have them. That being said, you know, I just would, when we met with staff to talk about this, we were more than welcoming and accepting of their comment and recommendation, which was to work with them on refining these respective elements that we're proposing today. And we are obviously are happy to do that, which in effect, to be honest with you, ends up being somewhat of a deferral because we have to come back with the, or no, we have to work with them to fine tune these elements in and of themself. So, on that front, like I said, we did spend a lot of time with staff, but even before we went to staff, we spent a lot of time studying these elements of this building in and of itself. And we did incorporate as many of the, for example, even the railing design, we took a circular element built into the brick and utilized that as the primary element standing out within the centerpiece of the railing system. So we literally even looked at the building aspects to incorporate them as effectively and as complimentary as we possibly could. So I just wanted to mention that, and I guess after the board has deliberated, if you don't mind Chairman Scott, at that point we can figure out where we're going and which direction we'll be best to go next. Sounds great. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Who wants to start? Miss Andian? Well, I have a question for either Mr. Malone or Mr. Otra or Callahan or even the staff. What do typically, what is suggested to do for the like, stoops like similar to what we have that is old and it is as they were saying a little bit kind of dentity and it's not safe to use anymore, but its history can be want to, you know, the preference is to keep it. What is what's the solution basically? I'm Sunnian thank you for the question and asking offering the else to comment. So there's a couple elements here what I think what we're talking about the red sandstone steps are this is the stoop that's in front of the building and it's two steps two large like foot tall steps that form a large stoop. I think what the applicant's talking about is the threshold within the door where those double doors that we're suggesting would be that threshold is all worn out and needs to be replaced or a seaman patch, but I think ideally, I think it would probably be new stone to, and I don't know, I staff and I see Mr. Cox is here. He may have advice. I don't know if that's original it probably is but I'm not sure it seems odd that the building's mostly red it's got Santa Cered standstone stoops and then there's this one stone the one that forms a threshold of the outer doorway is worn out and that needs to be repaired or replaced and you could get a mason to get similar stone or appropriate stone. It may be redstone, I would think, but right now it's white, which looks like, maybe it was the 1892 renovations or something, others may be more expert on that. But it's only the threshold that's damaged and needs to be replaced. And I argue it should be replaced in the most appropriate kind of solid stone and not painted. Just so that we're on the same page, Mr. Dillon or Miss Sanchez, do you want to comment on, are we all talking about the same thing here? I think so, but it's a prominent piece that comes out, that I would prefer to it as the first step that has a definite dip in it. It is not red, it is white. And so the other steps are fine. We're not gonna, I mean, those were fine. But I need to keep... We were talking about painting the whole stoop. So that's one thing that Mr. Dylan was wanting to do. So you want to repair this threshold and then paint the whole staircase? I want to repair this and paint the whole front stoop. Okay. Effectively, the reasoning for this was very, was actually multi-fold. Number one, it addresses the safety concern, which I'm glad the member asked about. She asked a very important question, and that we're looking to address the safety concern, because when you're 81-year-old mother almost falls down the steps, that's a big problem. The next aspect of this is that we also, by painting it, we're not looking to take away that step. We're not looking to destroy and trash those existing steps. We're looking to repair what's there and then paint over it so that in the future, the paint actually acts as a bit of a preventant and a bit of a seal around the step to keep it in place or to keep the elements in place so we don't have this cracking in the future. The former owner of this property told me that he actually performed such rest, rest of his work in the past. He just didn't come to you all to do it. And then he did it, nobody ever said a thing, and they kept cracking. So I said, OK, I'm going to get this, I agree with Steve on the Mason business. We're going to get our Mason who's going to be doing the entire building inside and out repairs to come in, properly seal this thing up so that in the future we don't have this problem. Thank you. Sorry, Miss Ani, go ahead. So I understand correctly that you are planning to repair it. You're planning to keep the brick and the stoop and repair it, either replace the stone or repair. Correct. I'll have a second break. So that's a good, but I don't agree with the painting part of it. And in general painting not to paint any part of the building and if there are any paints or arrows painted on it to be removed and for the original brick to be repaired and restored all over the building, basically. As everyone knows, it's a really important building historically for all town. So the other item is the signage, the very large signage. Because basically the signage or the LED lights or anything that would penetrate into the brick, I do not approve, basically. Again, because it's a historic and old brick building. The railing, I agree with the suggestion to have just a single point connection and actually if it's on the side of the stool so that it doesn't crack or you know damage the stool I think you probably prefer yourself as well to put it on the side of it. And we set that on the I agree with the comments for the lanterns. Only because it, again, it penetrates into the build break. And then the, we usually recommend for, I understand that you want to remove the three windows on the side of the building. We usually recommend to, if you're filling it up with break, to set it back so that it shows that at some point there was a window there to differentiate. I don't know how you want to match the color or you want to contrast it or maybe you can speak to it. On the west side of the building. Right, I believe it's in on the, yes, west. That That side, one of the things that there was another building attached to this building. So that wall, the west wall is half of what was there. So that particular facade has a lot of damage to the brick. It also has been parched with cement, with concrete, which is not a good thing to do. So trying to restore that back to its original condition is pretty difficult. And the third floor obviously was added at some point. So that facade is really difficult to deal with as far as restoring it and keeping it. And that was one of the reasons that they were going to fix it, repoint it, and then paint it, because it is in bad shape. There are bricks missing. You can just put your finger right through some of the brick and some of the mortar that's there. Is the first floor already painted? Yes. So if I can comment on some of your comments, the first thing is that as per the guidelines, if it's already been painted, then we should then rely to paint it. So on the three sides, that's why we said we agreed with staff, we're going to paint. We're going to not just paint. We're going to first repair. We're going to make sure that this thing is the most solid it's ever been since the method has lived in it. So as you'll see in the history. So that will be the first thing is to address that issue. Then the painting again will be conducted only after that occurs. As far as the windows are concerned, on that front, because of the size of the sashes and because of the fact that we are looking to, on the other side of this, on the interior of where these windows are, we actually, you know, have aspects of the interior that would be affected if we had to push this back. The other consideration is. Oh, but I'm only mean like an inch. Like an inch. Oh, yes. So on that note, I think that's something we're more than happy to study with, you know, the staff. You know, if we can get the approval from you all to do the studying with the staff. On that front, I will say this. Ramana's right, that building that used to be there that was torn down, build did research and found that the building went all the way to basically almost being aligned with the current building. So what happened was when that building came down because apparently, according to him, when light in the building they then cut these holes out and put it there. So technically speaking those are not historic. Those were basically alterations done for the benefit of the owner at the time. You know around what time line. So he couldn't tell. All he could say to me and I'm not because I'm not going to miss quote the man, you God forbid, you know forbid, I don't wanna put him in that position. But what he said to me was, he says as far as when he saw that that building, as far back as he could go, well no, as far as when those windows got put in there, he didn't have any evidence as to when they went in. All he said is that there was a building, there were no windows after that building came down, and then, you know, over time, the parking lot was arranged or provided for the city. At that juncture, this situation occurred with the owner at the time popping those windows in. And he doesn't have any elevation showing when that happened. All he knows is that this was not the primary intent nor the historic intent of the original building, back for 1854. Oh, thanks for that clarification. So in that case, if I would say to work with the staff to see if it was before prior to 1932 or not, if not, I take back my comment. It's not historic. We'll be happy to work with that. Happy to work with that. And then the paint that you would be using would be paint, right? It would be stain or whitewash or? Well, it would be a paint. And right now, we have four different paint colors on one side of the building. In the back,'s like six. And then on the other side there's like three. What do you, I don't know if I can find 100, so correctly you are not going, you're only planning to paint this side, right? Not the other side. No, all three sides, because there's paint on all three sides. So we want the building to look, we want to conformity around the building. And then we're looking to preserve and protect and repoint up and fix up and everything else the front elevation facing King Street. Which why the way is an update to the application because in the original application that was not what was proposed was the original application in full transparency was to paint the front which after giving it a lot of thought after looking at the history of the building I said let's let's fix it, let's make it look like when it was originally built. Let's try to get it back to, you know, it's glory days from when it was originally constructed. Okay. I would suggest not to use paint, but stain or whitewash. What we would look to do is try to get, again, if it's been painted, we can paint it, but here's what we will do. I'm going to try to actually have it match as... My personal preference is to try to have it match as much as possible with the front, so that it looks like it's uniform. That's honestly between us, I'm just now disclosing something that I didn't have in my, in our application, but that would be my goal is to have it look as uniform as possible all the way around. Because obviously we have a neighbor coming next door who's gonna block who to Steve's point is gonna end up blocking this whole thing out anyways. Is there going to be an alley in between the two? 10 foot, a 10 foot wide alley. A Steve said he was correct about that. 10 foot and it's going to go all the way back around the new building. One last point is the railing on the roof. We typically, we always have suggested, I mean, per guidelines. It should be set back from the street streets, especially in the industry, but preferably all sides, I would say on what we have done before is on a one-to-one ratio. So for example, if you can see how our height is that, I can't see very well. Maybe is it for now? For two? Oh, the bottom is too feet, the bottom of of the roof. But the railing, I'm talking about, should be set back and the roof. So here's what we did on that to your point. We actually looked at the existing state of the building. And so we made it commiserate with the existing knee wall that's already in place. And it has been however long. So we actually have the, we're setting it back as far as what's already set back on the bill. Because for example, if we left the knee wall and then set this thing back, it's going to look like hodgepodge. It's going to look horrible. It's going to be an eye sore, which is what we're all trying to avoid. So what we're doing is actually masking the whole knee wall, going up to where the knee wall is masking the whole thing so that we can make the masking of this thing look appropriate. And by the way, I must say, you guys would know this better than anybody. There's already half a dozen buildings with roof decks within a two block radius of this property, which by the way, They have much larger walls, what do you call, landings, landing enclosures that are towering way over their building. So above the corners, what do you see? Is that all new? The extra height and then the railing on top of it, when you look at the right picture. Oh, the right one. So you see the underneath the railing? Right. That's about the same level as where that knee wall is, right? And where the deck is actually is it on the top of the knee wall, you would say? Yeah, yeah. It's right on top because we're using the structural integrity of that knee wall to support the deck. Right. back all the way, going back all the way to the back of the deck, to where our stair enclosure is, we did a stair study to see how far we could get it sort of being level for, you know, not only safety purposes and not only code purposes, but also from the standpoint of water, the water mitigation. And so we found like basically that the knee wall was almost in a perfect position for us to use as the base for the roof there. And we are still going to study that. We still offer to study that further with staff to see if there's any way with our structural engineers and our MEPs we can get it down further. Right. For the staff recommendation, I agree with their recommendation to try to bring down the roof as much as possible. And we do too. And still set back their railing. And the railing is very ornate. I wanted to ask the you or the architect that I see that the building originally is a Greek revival and Victorian style. Have you done studies to make sure that the railing is? I'm glad you asked that question, because there's one thing that I have studied more than anything else in this building, it's those railings. And what we did is every aspect of those railings is taken not just from King Street and elements of King Street that exist, but if you look and you zoom in to, for example, the centerpiece, which is the most obvious piece of the whole thing, it's actually from the building. In fact, there should be a photograph up there with, if you go down to that corner of you and mine, Susan or Brendan, zooming in on that brick, we call that open circle. We call that the open circle design. That's right from the brick. So we took that piece and converted it and assimilated it into the railings. And then now we've even talked to the staff further about even positioning wise and elements of that. And I must say that that was something that was very well received as far as, and we not only incorporated it into the center, then even above that with the scrolly part on the top, we actually incorporate a smaller. And the reason is because we wanted to make sure that this building spoke to it's, you know, where its birthplace is effectively, which is the building. And we also, across the street, we even, we have a building, we have a building across the street, have the scroll, designs going on and all that. So we even incorporated that so that we tried to assimilate as best as we could with our surrounding neighbors. And there are things much more ornate than this as you'll see in our photographs if you'd like or we could take a tour. I'd be happy anytime because I love when you guys come see my properties. I'd be happy to have you guys come visit anytime we want. And some of the things you'll see, like for example, there's one in that photograph you just had at the firehouse. I thought that was a witch with a half of a grim stick. Somebody that informed me, no, that's a fireman with a machete that they used public speakers, suggestions and recommendations. Thank you. Thank you, Ms Miss Andy. Mr. Spencer, do you have any comments? Sure. In regards to, I'm going to start with my first thing that I talked about earlier with just a step. I would prefer if they just replace the stone and not actually paint the whole thing. I mean, that you're just giving yourself a maintenance nightmare at that point too, because now you have a lot of things. It is a maintenance nightmare. I know it's currently a maintenance nightmare, but you're giving yourself a maintenance nightmare because you have to currently go out and place and paint stone, which is not supposed to be painted in the first place. So just replace the one that's damaged and move on. That would be my recommendation. That wouldn't be averse to that. That would be my recommendation for that. Oh, by the way, Board Member Spencer, the only reason, why this whole idea of repair and paint came up was because of the comments that I already received from staff as well as the people in the neighborhood about, so save the step, save the step. I thought I was gonna get a sign out for one day. But anyways, that's the one damage step. That's the one that's the one I was saying. And I think it should be, I agree with Mr. Mellon, that it should be a red stone. So it looks like it was partly, I don't think it should be white, because that would just, I know it's currently white, that just seems, it does seem a little strange. Yeah, but whatever it is, we want the consistency to be there amongst the steps. We certainly don't want to miss that. Yes, it can be a little, it can be a little strange. Yeah, but whatever it is, we want the consistency to be there amongst the steps. We certainly don't want to mismatch it. It could be a little different so that you know that it's not an original. And instead of we're going to look like one of the originals anyway, this helmet, I guess, clarity on the paint. So when you say three sides, you mean the two sides and the back. Correct. Not the front, right? Correct. Okay. Just wanted to make sure because initially I was about to have a hard time. So I knew you'd have heartburn. Yeah. And not just you, but other members as well, which is why I said, you know, and I agree with you if there's already paint there that you have the right to paint it. So I'm not going I'm gonna belabor that. And if you wanna repair it and paint it, and historically those sides of buildings weren't the same quality brick as the front. So I don't really have an issue with painting the sides of the building and giving it a more uniform look, but I think I have an issue with you trying to match the color of the front. I know it's going to look like a giant red box, and the sides will never look as good as the front. So I think you should work with your architect to pick a color that actually accentuate, but not actually mimic the color of the front. Yeah, I just didn't want to be thinking I was doing baby blue or something, you know? That's what I'm saying. I'm trying to keep, I want to compliment to your point. Yeah. I want to compliment. Yeah, I just don't think we don't want you to mimic it. At least I don't. Railings. Well, roof deck and railings. I'm going to leave that topic for other board members because I have you filling in the other people are going to have some stronger opinions about that. I have my own opinions. I understand your Rose Brick's idea, but I think this ruling is a little much. You should have seen what it was from the design. It's just a little much. I understand it's Victorian, but that centerpiece looks like it came right off the English castle somewhere. It's a little too much. She just toned it back a little bit. And the centerpiece get the idea. But I mean, I think the Photoshop job of just taking it in there doesn't quite sell me on the idea of what it is. And if it is really a solid piece that you're going gonna put in the middle of this thing or is it a More like a metal when it's gonna be openings that I can see through the center piece As of now the way it was architected And the plan was to be just a solid piece big metal piece in there showing showing this the The circumference of the circle in the middle. I can zoom into that image of this But we have a version that has it open. I just think it's a, I think the whole thing is a little much. I think you could tone it back a little bit. And I mean, I agree that I do and doing something elegant and that's all great. But I think this is just a little much, especially the center part of it. It's just a little much. the sides are a little better, but the center is just, your piece that is resistance is a peace-tailor resistance. I mean, you can tone it back a little bit. The peace-tailor resistance is actually positive. I know, but it is not a positive thing. You can just tone it back a little bit. And I will let other members, and I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm safety. They're not required. Oh, no, I know, but for safety for who, you're not required by code to have them. For those that have that visit the building, and in particular, we've already had a circumstance, so. I disagree with the idea of putting railings on this building. That's my last comment. Mr. Elmino? I'm very familiar with this building too. You know, that's capital bike share and it's all filled up on King Street and I'm always there and it's just a beautiful building I think. It's important to design a very sensitive restoration of it. I understand, you know, reusing it for different uses is going to bring it forward in its life. But I have some comments on a number of the items here. I currently I'll tell you I cannot support this application as it is. If you could, I wanted to talk about starting with the King's Tree elevation. If you could bring that up. The, you know, as Mr. Malone said, the existing, the existing Bay currently has a small parapet in the front that has a small parapet that comes up and accentuates the Bay and it's asymmetry. So, you know, the treatment of the, you know, the parapet as a centerpiece, I I think puts this existing building off balance and I think it's important to keep the current small parapet that's above the bay. I can't support all the LED lights on the front of the building. The I agree with replacing the stone, the white stone. If that's a safety hazard, I think it's important to replace it with a natural stone. I can appreciate your pneumatic elevator inside the house and your concern about safety. And if you have your eight-year-old mother coming, if you need a handrail, I could support that as it's sensitively put on to the existing stones down there. I have a problem with basically any of the painting on the brick, especially the west side is mostly unpainted. I understand at one point it was painted, and there's some paint on the bottom of it. But painting brick, as a rule, brick is a very porous material that breathes in it also, you know, improves your interior environment because you're not trapping vapor in the wall. So I think painting the brick is a mistake. And I know that other members of my board might feel that it's okay. I'm not good with that. But I think my biggest issue is the massing of what's going on with the roof deck. And I wasn't sure how it was reconciled. The guidelines are stating that a roof deck shouldn't interfere with the natural roof line of the existing building. And if I look at, if you zoom out a little bit, Ms. Helman on the west elevation, it seems that the existing, I think that's the back. Well, that's kind of a good elevation too. And that's the section. I think it was just the picture to the left at the front elevation. The one you had up before. The, the, the, can. That one. Just go back to the one at the edge. There's still the edge. Yeah. Yeah. So it, it's really, it's really lording over King Street and that alleyway, I think it needs to be set back. I don't know if there are options for relocating the stair to another side, but right now it's imposing on the building. So. At that, that's my opinion. I know I've heard your opinions. So and I appreciate that. And I appreciate you taking care of this old building. Oh, I did want to mention one thing that I hadn't mentioned about the massing. So we actually have a design elevation which we have been, which staff has gotten, but it wasn't in time for the hearing. But we actually have a massing which shows the element of the centerpiece actually moved to being centered with the bay. To create a more harmonious appreciation for the bay, as well as have it positioned that way so that it actually extenuates the historic nature of the Bay. So that's a part of the way we're going to work. I think that would be an improvement, definitely, to recognize how the balance of that front elevation, but you know the the massing of the roof deck overall is is it's imposing on King Street. I have seen other roof decks around. Most of them are toward the back of their buildings. They're not just right on King Street and much higher with the guardrail. So having to maintain the integrity of the existing roof line, I the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the In fact, the one which I call the lady looking to know where at the corner of King and what is it? Yes. There you have this massing of the huge walk-up staircase or landing. And then you see the rails going all the way around that side. And that actually is right at the major intersection. Where we're about to be completely from three sides effectively non-existent. Because on one side, we have a building next to us with an alley where a very narrow alley, or a pretty narrow alley. On the other side, this building is gonna to be 10 feet, we're going to have a 10 foot alley. And then in the back, we basically have no very narrow alley as well. So on three sides, it will be boxed in effectively. And so this, massing from that side that you're looking at right now, these from the side won't exist. The only reason why it's there to where it's there now is because of the structural aspects where we needed to place it. And we found that if we went with where the parapet was now that was there, and utilized that, we could actually utilize it out. Yeah, we won't have much of a roof deck at that point, you know, but, you know, it's definitely something that we are more than happy as we've said. We're more than happy to look into it further with staff, you know. See what we can do. Mr. Lions. Thanks. Yeah, I guess I'll start out with saying I can't support this application as it's been submitted. You know, I'll give you a few of my comments, which some will be an echo of my fellow board members. But can you bring up the west elevation picture of the wall, the side of the house? I'm sorry? Yeah. Okay. the side of the house. Sorry? Yeah. Yeah, the photograph. Photograph of the West elevation from the parking lot. That's fine. So yeah, so, and one, I'm against painting things as well. To me, this, and I guess I'd ask staff, I mean, you know, I know it says if it's been painted that you can paint, that to me is not a painted wall. So I don't know if the guidelines say if there's a speck of paint on the wall can be painted? Because that's not a painted wall, in my opinion. So I mean, that wall to me should not be painted. It should be restored as best as you can, and I know it might be costly, but that's not something that we can consider in our decision, but to me, that's not a painted wall. I don't know what the other side looks like. I don't even know if we have a picture of the other side of what it looks like, but anyway, against painting of any sort. And even when the step is replaced, I wouldn't want to see a painted. I think the other... against painting of any sort. And even when the step is replaced, I wouldn't want to see a painted. I think the other thing, I think there's a lot of things here, the lighting, I'm not a fan of, the signage, I haven't really seen exactly what that's gonna look like, so I need more clarification on that. The railing, I agree with Mr. Spencer that it's just too much. It just can dial a back a bit. And also I agree with Mr. Dalyne, you know about the rooftop itself. And I think other folks mentioned that as well. But yeah, I mean, so overall, there's just a lot of things here. I mean, I think you can come back with a, if know, if you do come back, you know, with some modifications, but, you know, again, the lighting and the signage I need more clear vacation on, the railing needs to be looked at. And then the whole painting issue, again, I don't think you have the right to paint that wall just because it's been painted because of my mind that wall's not painted. So I would not necessarily, and again, I don't know where the line is drawn, but I mean, I don't know that I would necessarily safely say you can paint that wall not have to un-painted, but I'll let you talk to staff about that. Maybe as we're chatting with Homan, if you could bring up the guidelines on un-painted masonry just so we can be real clear on what it says. Sorry, didn't mean it or I'm sorry. Yeah and I don't think it again. I'd say when is it say that it's when is it become a wall that's been painted or when is it become a wall that's just got paint here and there? And what point does that trigger? I can paint it because there's just a few spots that have paint. So I'm saying. Thank you. Do you have more comments? Nope. All right. I will tell you, I also will not support this application. I know this building, it's a beautiful building. It also happens to have a perfect top, the corbaling detail, and the corners at the top of the building is a absolutely, exquisitely beautiful detail. And I also agree that the small parapet wall above the vertical element on the left is very nice. I don't think there should be any railing covering it. I don't think you should add a parapet to this building. And if you do have a rooftop deck, it needs to be set back from the front of the building far enough so that the railing is minimally visible. My understanding of the painting guidelines is that the painting of unpainted racinery is discouraged a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. So I think coming up with a reasonable solution is probably appropriate. I don't know Miss Helman, do you have the words there on- but that would probably be unsatisfactory to everyone. So I think coming up with a reasonable solution is probably appropriate. I don't know, Miss Helmen, do you have the words there on the unpainted masonry yet? I'm actually looking for that now. Okay, cool. So I've read them before, and I know that it's... The unpainted masonry rule that's also in the zoning ordinance that unpainted masonry requires a certificate of appropriateness. So the wording is that if you're painting masonry that is unpainted. Unpainted. Right. So there are painting maestral that is unpainted. Unpainted, right? So there are parts of your walls that are unpainted and there are parts of your walls that are painted. So you would need permission to paint the parts that are unpainted. And I align with the comments of the public and Ms. Del Nino as well as Mr. Lines. I don't think it's appropriate to paint the side of this building, unless it's an absolute last resort, but I think there's a lot that you could do in terms of restoration. I will say you have great taste. This is a beautiful building. You bought it. You're going to restore it. I think that's really wonderful, and I really look forward to seeing the final result. But this building is a beautiful building, and the modifications you've suggested would significantly significantly detract from the beauty the building and I would not support this application as you've submitted. You, I really think you need to go back to the drawing board and think about updating this building in a way that respects the building and does not significantly alter it. So with that said, do any of the other members of the board have comments to make additional comments? And so my only other comment that I didn't comment on was going to agree to the ideas about the LED lighting and the signage packages. That's a non-starter for me as well. Yeah, I agree with that. So at this point we can take a vote or you can ask to defer, go back to the drawing board, meet with staff again and then come back with an updated application in the future Those are pretty much the two options we could take at this point and mr Scott do you want me to read the part about that would be really helpful? I think probably for the applicant Okay, I apologize no, that's great. We will find it. It's in section 10 of the zoning ordinance 10 dash 10109 Before the painting of a masonry building which was unpainted prior to such painting shall be considered the removal of an exterior feature having historic and or architectural significance requiring a certificate of appropriateness. Okay, so that's pretty vague, right? I don't know where we could go on that. No, just hold on for a second. We've heard a lot from you today. So I don't know if you're going to add anything that we've already haven't heard about the painting. You can come back to us with a proposal to paint the masonry. It's hard to take your application seriously because of the suggestions that you've made to this beautiful building. That railing does not belong on this building. It shouldn't be visible from the street. You shouldn't be removing the parapet that exists now. You shouldn't be painting the steps. I think if it comes down to just whether you paint the side of the building. That's certainly something the board could consider. But I would not approve the modifications to the top of the building or to the lights or to the painting at this point because I think you need to reconsome Reconceptualize this whole project with that said you can ask for a vote or you can ask to defer Is there any you know thing? Is there any Anything really into the painting that you want to hear about on that wall because There you can bring that back next time. Okay. No, yeah That's right. I mean to be fair We've heard a lot from you I really your comments, and I truly appreciate that you're an enthusiastic homeowner and that you've contributed so much to Old Town. I just don't think you're there with this design yet. Yeah, and I can appreciate all of your respective comments and part of what you'll see in the staff recommendations is the conscious work we've done with them on this front, which is why those recommendations are there. So as far as that was concerned, we knew that there was some more work that we needed to do with them, which is why they made the recommendation for us to work further with them and why we've agreed with them. That's absolutely appropriate. And sometimes when they're just minor things, like we did earlier today, we'll approve something with a suggestion that you work with Stafford. But I think this really needs to come back to the board as an additional matter, which is why I recommend. You ask for a deferral, but if you'd like a vote, an up or down vote on this certificate of appropriateness, we could also do that. Yeah, I mean, you know, because our intent from the beginning, solely because our intent from the beginning was to come back anyways after working with Staff, We don't have any issue with that. Okay, and as you know, I've never been shy about coming back. Of course. So this is not so hard. Are you asking for a parole? Yeah, I mean, yes, because that was our original intent was to work with staff further anyways. Thank you very much. All those members in favor of a deferral say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. We'll see you again sometime soon. Mr. Harris, do we have speakers for the next item on the docket? I their forms And then we can come back and do lonely anybody object all back. I'm going to ask you to come back. I'm going to ask you to come back. I'm going to ask you to come back. I'm going to ask you to come back. I'm going to ask you to come back. I'm going to ask you to come back. I'm going to ask you to come back. I'm going to ask you to come back. I'm going to ask you to come back. They have enough space to sit. So I'm here on the point. I tell you here's what I do got to do when I come up. You can't. So if you wait, he's going to go through all the class he has. Yeah. And then you have to be at the end. Okay. Turn it in now, you go in the corner. If you're not so sure, you can just wait. Yeah. I will just keep it open for some comments. Everybody has to go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm sorry. I'm going to ask for your attention. I'm going to ask for your attention. I'm going to ask for your attention. I'm going to ask for your attention. I'm going to ask for your attention. I'm going to ask for your attention. I'm going to ask for your attention. I'm going to ask for your attention. I'm going to ask for your attention. I'm going to ask for college card. I'm going to buy a college card. You're building was right down the The civil weapons are moving there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I got there every week. I think. building was right down the civil there. Yeah. Yeah. I go up there every weekend. Sometimes, I read on how I have seen the tickets I can't even go. Um, it has changed over the years. What makes that happen? It's going to go up on the game theory that I've not been just pulled. Convales, they live on there. Pennsylvania is too cheap. We live on Pennsylvania and drag that. Convales? A little about there. Pasovinas, should be cheap, but a little bit of Pasovinas are like that. Oh yeah. I'm very easy going. You have to figure it out. Forget about that for now. I know. I know. Good. I'm going to take a thank you. I'm going to take you. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Sitch. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I know. I I'm going to go to the other side of the building. There is a lot of things that I can't do. There is a lot of things that I can't do. There is a lot of things that I can't do. There is a lot of things that I can't do. There is a lot of things that I can't do. There is a lot of things that I can't do. There is a lot of things that I can't do. and then it says turn around. I'm not sure Yeah. So I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. She's our policy. Yeah, sir. Can you do that in future? She can be in front of the question. Yeah, I know that. These are our green and yellowish ones. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Oh, the camera is so far. I'm sorry. Yes. So that was my reason. I'm going to get started again here in a minute just so everybody knows. Thank you everyone for your patience. I really appreciate it. This helmet, whenever you have a chance would you like to read in the next stock item? I would love to. B-A-R-2025-00107, Olden Historic District, request for a concept review at 3 Duke Street, 226 Strand Street, 210 Strand Street, 206 Strand Street, 208 Strand Street, and 0 Print Street. The applicant is the City of Alexandria, represented by Matt Landis. And just as a point of clarification, Ms. Helman or our representative from the city, this is the park known as Lumley Park, is that right? Yes, sir. The waterfront park that will eventually maybe include a pump station is not part of the city's presentation here today. Is that right? Yes, that's correct. Okay, so I do just want to make the public aware. We have had other meetings on the proposed pump station in Waterfront Park, and I believe there's another meeting on that issue scheduled in June. So if you want to speak on the proposed pump station in water, I think it's called Waterfront Park. That's what we're going to be talking about that. Here today we're talking about the Lomley Park, which is immediately... the proposed pump station in water, I think it's called waterfront park. That's what we're gonna be talking about that. Here today we're talking about the Lomley Park, which is immediately to the south of the boat club building and that parking lot just to orient everybody. So with that said, our apple can please take it away. Thank you. Sir, thank you. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Sarah Sapulbris. I serve as the deputy project manager on the owner's advisor team for the city of Alexandria's Waterfront implementation project. Essentially, Corolo, the lead owner's advisor, is here to serve as an extension of the Department of Implementation's Rami Shahad and Matthew Landis to manage the project. I know Matt is a familiar face to all of you, the applicant today. Unfortunately, he was not able to make it and apologize for that. Rami and I are joined today by members of our design build team, including our lead contractor, Scanska, lead designer, JMT, and lead landscape architect, Lee and associates. Each team member will have an opportunity to introduce themselves over the course of the presentation in Q&A. So before I turn it over to them, I wanted to remind everyone today that our project team came before this board in December. At which point we were and in some ways still are in the early stages of design. During that meeting, we presented an overview of the Waterfront Implementation Project and received some initial feedback. Since December, we've performed a lot of community engagement and progressed design, all while striving towards the oil and plan and the goals and objectives established in the small area plan. So the purpose of today, I think it was just mention, but we will be updating the board of architecture review on the Waterfront flood mitigation project, specifically focusing today's discussion on the Point Lumbly Park. For bar action, this is just a concept concept review so we're requesting feedback and guidance on design updates. Some key elements that will go through during today's presentation. First we'll talk about a refresher on prior approved waterfront common elements, identify how and where they've been incorporated into the design and also point out some elements that you might be familiar with as well such as the railing. We We'll provide an overall design update on Point Lumbly Park. As mentioned previously, a design update on Waterfront Park and Lower King Street is going to be in a second hearing scheduled in June. We're also looking for questions and feedback from the Board of Architecture Review on current architecture and landscape architecture developments. So just a quick. So just a quick reminder for anybody, just to refresh on the Waterfront Implementation Project in its entirety and some key objectives. First, we're looking to mitigate stormwater and the most frequent tidal in riverine flooding. Second, the project is looking to replace aging and failing shoreline infrastructure were practicable and affordable. The project is looking to improve public accessibility and public amenities within the key waterfront locations of Old Town, Alexandria. And finally, this project is looking to actualize the goals of the waterfront small area plan. With that, I'm gonna turn it over to Meredith Berry to get us started. Thank you, Sarah. Again, my name is Meredith Barry. I am a senior landscape architect with lean associates. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you tonight. We wanted to start just by looking at the project high level. You really can't think about just point lonely or one of these parks by itself. You almost have to look at the waterfront as a whole because we wanted to feel cohesive. So there are three parts to the project. There's King Street. There's the waterfront park and there's point lonely park, which is the focus of tonight's presentation. So again, just looking at the big picture for right now, our overall project vision. So the team's mission is to design and build a cohesive plan that responds to the city's modern needs for improved shoreline resiliency flood mitigation and enhanced programmable spaces in a way that reinforces Alexandria's established identity and history. So to break that down into some separate goals, first of all, we wanna provide new program and features that are inspired by existing conditions and history. There's so much with Alexandria that we can pull from in terms of history and narrative. So we're looking for opportunities to bring new experiences and new programming elements that will carry that history through the parks. Second of all, select materials that are of the place and integral with Alexandria's existing condition. So our starting point is really the common elements package that was prepared by Olens several years ago. We're starting there in terms of materiality and that carries through the entire waterfront. And me, waterfront, and then finally improve resiliency. So this is first and foremost our priority. Resiliency, though, is more engineering-based. So for us as the landscape architects, our question is how can we add a layer of place-making, narrative, opportunities for education and things like that that will really elevate the park user experience and make the Alexandria waterfront even more of a destination. So common threads again, these are the things that will run through all of these parks and create a cohesive waterfront. So first of all, we're looking at them. And so again, there's so much that we can pull from things like shipbuilding the the historic shoreline, and banking out, which we'll talk about more here in a moment. The African American Heritage Trail, the Alexandria Canal, and then of course maritime history in the waterfront location. Materiality is another thing that connects all the parks, so the common elements again, that's kind of the building block for this whole thing. And then we have the Alexandria standards, so the Victor Stanley trash receptacles, bike racks, benches that we've all seen in the street skate, and then just in terms of materials, pallet, brick, granite, wood, concrete, metal, those are the materials that we're working with. We're kind of starting from there. And then finally, landscapes. So if we think about landscape in terms of typologies, you can think about urban streetscapes, park landscapes, the waterfront promenade, fire attention, and floating wetlands. Each of those could be considered a typology with different plant palettes assigned to each one. And so the intent would be that those typologies carry throughout all of the parks. So there's continuity of landscape within all these different spaces. So let's talk about the common elements for a moment. Again, this is from the original Olin design guidelines. So materials like brick sidewalks, granite curb, cobble transitions, and gutters, all of these elements are kind of creating the foundation for our materials pallet. And then the waterfront common elements. So this is another thing that will continue through Point Lonely and for the waterfront as a whole. We have the light fixtures, the two-foot banding on each side, the variegated concrete pavers. All of this will be part of our design. And then back to those Alexandria standards. So, do you establish furnishings, the light cracks, benches, ballers, had-kill light poles, all of that will be integral with our. All right, so then let's focus on Point Lonely Park. So existing conditions. So the dashed orange outline that you see, that's the extent of our site. We have Robinson landing to the south. That close proximity gives us a lot of opportunities, not just to borrow from the materials palette, but we can also think about the actual detailing of stairs, seat walls, and other elements that are part of that area, and then extended into point lonely. So it really feels like a continuation of Robinson landing. And then to the north, we have Old Dominion Boat Club, and then the water front park. So then the prom and I will be the connector that brings all of these things together Existing site plan so the main takeaway here is really just the red outline that shows the limit of disturbance. That's our project extents And then some existing site images so the main takeaways from these photos are really just the variation in the waterfront condition, I think. And then two, one of the takeaways is that really, it's a walkway right now. It's a quarter that moves people along the waterfront. But there's not a lot in this area to really activate the water's edge and create opportunities for seating and programming and things like that. So that's one of the things that we want to bring to our design. And then some more photos. So in the top left corner, the view from the park to the roof. This roof, we think, is a great opportunity to be a signature piece of the park design. We want it to be a focal element, not just for a lonely, but for the waterfront as a whole, so that people see it from afar. And they say, that's where I want to go. It's a real destination place. The photo on the top right, the view from Strand and Old Dominion Boat Club. You can see there that there are some existing utility poles that we'll have to work around with in our design. View six in the bottom left, This is the view from strand and duke streets. So this is a good example of the materiality around the perimeter of the parks. So you can see the brick intersection paving. Chiesman Kway, they're on the right side with the brick paving and the pedestrian walkways too. So you have that very brick materiality. And then when you think about the promenade, it's those three different colors of gray concrete pavers with the charcoal banding. And it feels a little bit more modern and a little bit different. So the parks really become the place where these different vernacular is kind of have to mesh together. And that's our goal for the park designs and materiality. And then the bottom right corner, the view from Robinson Lanning to a cheeseman quay. So again, that close proximity to Robinson gives us opportunities to borrow from materials and detailing. So vision and story. This applies really not only to just Lomley, but for the waterfront as a whole. We want narrative and history to drive everything that we're joined in these parks. And this is also consistent with the Alexandria Small Area Plan for the Waterfront. Weaving art and history into the fabric of all of these places is very important to the community. So there were two narratives that we kept coming back to. One is the idea of banking out where the townspeople made the intentional decision to reach out into deeper water, build warfs, build piers, and it created this trade gateway to the world and really connected Alexandria to the world. The other thing that it did is it helped to shape the the community into what it is today, because it laid the foundation to create this working port town with residences, businesses, you know all of these different things. The other kind of flip sides to that though is well, that's a story that's really worth celebrating. It also led to some of the flood issues that we have today, that altering of the shoreline. So that's another piece of the narrative that we think is work green to the parks in terms of sustainability. And then on the right side, the other story that we really want to tell, particularly in Womely, is the idea of ship building. Because ship building actually happened on this site. This was the site of Thomas Fleming Shipyard. And so one of the ideas that we have is to relocate the existing shipbuilder statue from the Waterfront Park to Point Lumbly and use that to create a sense of arrival. Really set the tone for this whole shipbuilding experience to kind of unfold. And then that takes us to the proposed site plan. So let's just look at the framework for right now. Our overall design goals, first of all, were to integrate the park with its context. So when you zoom out and look at the perimeter of the park, it's surrounded by very historic, very gritted streets. And so we thought it made sense to continue that same orthogonal, very rectilinear geometry into the park so that the transition between park and perimeter is relatively seamless. This kind of rectilinear approach is also consistent with the original all-in plan. So we're trying to take that and use that as our foundation for the designs. The second thing was maximize flexibility for programming and events. So we heard from the community that there is a need here to let this park do a lot of things in terms of programming, both for public scale and private scale events. For instance, the grandline that you see, you can imagine 10 foot by 10 foot, 10 speed set up around the perimeter of that line, and you can have an art fair or cultural fair or something like that. The rectilinear plaza, that's adjacent to the promenade. Maybe a band could perform there, they could set up a stage, that movable seating could be moved out onto the line, and then people could bring their lawn chairs, set them up on the line, and you have a concert before the Fourth of July fireworks, and people can stay and hang out and watch the fireworks there. And then finally, reinforce connections to the Potomac River and engage the water friend. And we'll talk about this a little bit more in a moment, but we're thinking about those connections to the water, not just in terms of visual connections, but also in terms of experience, providing people the opportunity to get down closer to the water in different ways. All right, so experiences, we have enlargements later on where we'll talk about how narrative and programming and some of the features are woven into these different areas. So for now, we'll just keep at high level and kind of introduce the function zones. So where you see number one, we're calling this our ship building slash River Gateway Walk. So this is a hard-scape corridor and it's 22 feet wide and it is that with because it has to be able to accommodate emergency vehicles. So we're trying to think from a place-making standpoint how can we program that and make it something that is part of the park and you know something that people want to enjoy and something that's more engaging. So we have some ideas for how that could potentially be themed, whether it's shipbuilding or maybe if it's more of a timeline that tells the story of how the port of Alexandria evolved over time, specifically in response to different current events. And then if you look at number two, this is the Worf. So that diagonal line that you see that connects the arrival plaza in the top left corner down to that Worf, that's intended to create a very strong visual connection, not just to the Worf, but to the water. And there's an opportunity at the Worf to do a shade structure that could potentially be inspired by the historic Caribbean construction of the Worfs. And then in speaking back to that idea of connections to the water and creating different experiences. So at Robinson Landing, the elevation of the promenade will be at 8.5. And then it slopes down to six across the length of the promenade, probably for about 150 feet. It will be under a 2% slope, so it's relatively flat. Now the water level, the average high water level is just below three. It's 2.91. And then the average low water level was 0.15. So you can figure average normal water level is is around 1.5. So the moral of this story is there will always be some gap between where you're standing on the promenade and where the water is. So what we're trying to do is create some opportunities to get people down a little bit closer to the water. And this was also in the oil and plan. So at the wharf, we're showing some steps there and some seat walls so people would be within one foot or two feet of the mean water level. We also have some floating wetlands there and a kayak launch. The kayak launch could potentially shift. All we're saying right now is that we think providing public access to the water so people can take their kayaks out, their paddle boards, you know providing that kind of a program element somewhere along the waterfront you think makes sense because again it's engaging the water in a different way. Item three so this is the promenade. You can see we have the rectilinear plaza adjacent to that and some seating to really activate the water's edge. And again, that rectal in your applause of the seating could be moved out of there if they wanted to have some kind of a concert or other events for the community. And then number four, this is bio retention. So this is something that's necessary for the site. But again, similar to that 22 foot emergency vehicle area, we're trying to program it in some ways that it enhances the park experience. So we have some observation decks in there, a boardwalk, some opportunities for play and learning, and then we also have some ideas for how that even could potentially be themed with some kind of narrative and we'll talk about that in a moment. And then five is the African AmericanAmerican Heritage Trail. We wanna make sure that that's integrated with the park design. The actual signage locations are still to be determined, but we just wanna make sure that these elements are integral to the park. And then six, the future Rosenbaum a quest garden. So you can imagine that what's shown is long right now will eventually be replaced with a very beautiful and garden-esque landscape when the time comes. And then seven, again, that's that grand event lawn that can be programmed in different ways or used for informal recreation. All right, so sustainability. Because we are adjacent to the Potomac River, there's a responsibility for us to do something that is environmentally sensitive. At the same time, you know, we love to do living shoreline and floating wetlands and, you know, those kinds of shoreline strategies all along this promenade if we could. But the reality is, it's still a working waterfront. There's a lot of boat traffic here. And so we have to the park rather than to ward the river. So we're trying to do is do floating wetlands and do those sustainable shoreline strategies where we can, especially where they'll be experienced most by the park users. So you can see we have floating wetlands around the wharf in that lower left-hand corner. The other thing that we're doing is we're sloping the promenade to percent toward the park rather than toward the river. So we're containing our runoff from the promenade. Plansing can be primarily native. We'll make sure that the plant scene is designed to comply with Alexandria's landscape design guidelines. The area that you see highlighted in purple, that's by our retention. So again, that all cleans and infiltrate runoff from the impervious areas. And then we're also looking at ways that we can incorporate play and education there. The other thing that we'd like to do is there was historic or canal stone that was excavated from the historic Alexandria canal. So we're looking for ways that that can be incorporated into the bioretension areas specifically is landscape accents as wall material and then also where you see the plant beds that are kind of running through the center of those two lawn areas it could be used potentially as stepping stones and pavers in those areas too. So trying to repurpose materials that are already part of this site. And then the areas that are highlighted in yellow, these would be decomposed granite, so that's permeable hard scape, and these are the learning nodes, and those areas would be contained by the canal stone walls, so we don't have concerns about that decomposed granite. I get running into the buyer retention areas because it would be contained. Uh-huh. All right, so in site sections, we just hope to show how the different spaces in the park come together. So the first section in the top left corner, section A, this is a detail enlargement showing those steps down to the water at the wharf. So you can see there are regular stairs, six inch risers, and then beyond those, we would have seat walls. It would be 18 inches in height that are integral with the stairs. So you can just sit there, enjoy the view of the water, have a snack, or have a beverage. It would be a nice place to hang out. And then also on the wharf. Instead of using a guardrail, what we'd like to do is use a 24 inch wide wood timber bench. It feels a little bit more shipyard inspired, and it keeps the view and just, you know, the feeling of being close to the water. It kind of keeps that character more intact. And then the second section, section B, so that's cutting across the entire site from West East. And so you can see we're a little bit farther down toward the middle of the site. You can see the floating wetlands, the shade structure, the promenade, the seating that's going to activate that promenade in a different way. And then we have the lawn and raised planters behind. So one of the things that you can really tell from this section is the change in grade that we mentioned earlier. So when you're at Robinson Landing, you're up at 8.5 and you're sloping down to 1.5 feet along the promenade. And then the other section, so this is cutting north south. Again, just really emphasizing the flexible one area and then that grade change adjacent to Robinson landing down to the EBE. So those planters that we show with the trees on the left side of the plan, those are all raised planters, and then there will be stairs in between those planters where the breaks are, where people can access the hardscape quarter and themed gateway walk from Chisman Quay. Okay, so now we can zoom in and talk about these different function zones in a little bit more detail and how narrative and story can be worked into them. So this is the gateway and shipbuilding walk. And we have a couple of different ideas of how this could be themed. One idea is to relocate the shipbuilder statue to be a rival plus in the top left corner. So where you see number one and that white square, that would be the shipbuilder statue. So that creates a sense of arrival and just sets the tone for this whole experience to unfold. And then the Harscape corridor on the left, again it's 22 feet wide. The light gray bands that you see could have some kind of storytelling feature. And so maybe you're talking about how a ship was built from start to finish. So in the banding, maybe it's just a one word text inscription. And it is like the part of a boat, whether it's the stern, the mass, the bow, or something like that. And then you have a sculpture in those linear planters that also kind of shows how that construction of the ship comes together. So you're starting out with one part of the boat, and then by the time you get down to the Potomac River, the entire ship has been completed. The other idea that we had that is a little bit different is one of the things that stood out to us when we were going through the Alexandria Waterfront Plan, the small area of waterfront plan, was just how the port changed in response to current events. So, you know, when it started out, the town was founded in 1749, and then the Civil War, the War of 1812, those wars left a lasting impact on the community and it struggled to find its footing after those. And then the transition was to industry, and then it was defense. And then now today, it's the center of recreation and activity and retail and dining. And so that timeline also provides kind of an interesting narrative and a story to tell along that walkway. Two, so again, we have some great change across the site. So we're sloping from the top left corner of the plan down roughly to the lower right-hand corner. And so we have these stone feature stairs. These could be a little bit wider treads. Maybe it's a 15 inch or an 18 inch tread. So you could potentially sit on them and it's more of a feature and part of the park than just a regular set of stairs. And then we also have some opportunities for signage, the shoreline banding that's more of a feature and part of the park than just a regular set of stairs. And then we also have some opportunities for signage, the shoreline banning that's already been established within the city of Alexandria to show the historic 1845 shoreline would be incorporated where you see number seven and then number nine is the historic 1749 shoreline band. Oh, sorry, just one other thing. How do I go back? One other note on that. In the lower left-hand corner, the photo of the Woodseed Cube. So in our hard-scaped area, the ship building walk or our gateway walk, the idea is that we would have these seat cubes and they could be staggered. It's kind of a playful look. But these furnishings would all be movable and kind of goes back to that idea of shipbuilding and shipyards. All right, so let's talk about the shipbuilder statue for a moment. So again, we're proposing relocating the statue from waterfront park to Point Lumbly. Our preferred location, we want to work with this city on how this might be done and you know where the community thinks it should be, but some of the ideas that we had is one to put it in that top left corner again, so it creates that sense of arrival and sets the tone for the ship building walk. Other options that that is in the property. The property is in the property that is in the property. The property is in the property that is in the property. The property is in the property that is in the property. The property is in the property. The property is in the property. and the statue. And then the third idea that we had would be to position it in the middle of that rectilinear plaza. The thing that you have to keep in mind with that location is the plaza would no longer be flexible at that point for programming. The other thing that we were considering is you can see that the statue is about 10 feet tall overall It's just under seven feet just for the the statue itself and then it sits on a three foot four inch pedestal So we were wondering if the city would consider you know It's not that this would be better. It's just different But we were wondering if it could be considered to actually remove the pedestal and put the shipbuilder at grade. And it just creates a little bit of a different relationship to the park user. It's a little bit more dynamic, a little more engaging. And this has been done in different places. The images at the bottom of the page show a couple of locations in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania where it's been done in both public and private spaces. And then here, just at National Harbor, of course, the statues are everywhere, and kids can shake hands with FDR, and they take pictures. And so it's just a little bit of a different experience that we wanted to open for discussion. All right, and then the Wharf and Shade structure. So again, we think this is an opportunity to be a real destination for not just point lonely, but the whole Alexandria waterfront. And the Shade structure itself, the design can be inspired by the cribbing construction that was used for the historic wars. They used the old chip timbers and the wooden cribs to build the war so we can bring some of that same detailing to the design of the shade structure. Then where you see item two on the edges of the warfs so that would be a wood timber bench. And again we're using that to create the barrier so that we don't have to have that guardrail which is not required by code. Item 6 are those steps and seat walls that would go down to the water and then we have the floating wetlands and the kayak lunch which again that may shift potentially even to water front park. We want to work with the city to figure out where exactly that should be. And then this is the shade structure plan and elevation right now. So this design is in progress. We're working with a manufacturer on it. But again, trying to incorporate some of that cribbing construction inspiration, especially into the roof. That's kind of the approach that we're taking to it right now. And then the promenade. So item three, that's our paving. This is just continuing what's already been established at Robinson Landing through all the way to Waterfront Park. And then where you see items two and five, the seating on top of wood decking. So wood decking is great adjacent to the water. It just has a nautical feel. It gives you that idea of being out on the water. So we think being able to incorporate it where we can a little bit further inland. We don't want to do it out on like the waterfront steps around the wharf because we want to make sure that we're using materials that are resilient and will last over time. But inland, we think it would be a nice opportunity here along the promenade. And then we have two kinds of seating. So the items that are labeled too on each side, those would be fixed, chase lounges, and then item five, that would be movable tables and chairs. So again, they can move those out onto the lawn for an event. And then buy our attention and nature play. So we think there's an idea to do narrative incorporated with this as well. So if you think back a moment to when we were talking about the shipbuilding walk and that gateway idea, we mentioned that the walk could be themed to be based off of shipbuilding, or we talked about that idea of a timeline where we talk through the progression of how the port evolved and responds to current events. We think there could be an opportunity to bring that narrative to the buyer retention area. If we keep the shipbuilding theme over the Gateway walk because if you think about it, the Potomac River has always been the lifeline of this community. Through all these different phases that the port went through, whether it was for wars, whether it was for defense, or industry, and then what it is today, the Potomac River has always been at the heart of this community. And so with that comes a responsibility us to take care of it. So we could have a signage panel somewhere in this bioretension area that outlines that timeline and then we can say this is our bio area, this is how, you know, this is what we're doing to respond sustainably and help to, you know, protect the Potomac River for generations to come. And then in our learning notes, where you see those square and rectangular areas, we could have play components incorporated there, and each one could include a sign panel. Maybe one talks about birds and butterflies and pollinators and what the bio-retentionary can do for that, and then another one might talk about native plants. The other idea that we had for this bio-area again is brain in the canal stones that already exist from the historic Alexandria canal, so we can use them as wall material to contain the hardscape. So like the top left corner, we can arrange them in kind of a staggered pattern, so it's not just seating for parents to watch their kids, but it could also be more of a climbing future. And then within the gravel areas that we're showing there, we might have log steppers or logs that the kids can kind of climb on. And then we have the observation deck and boardwalk that allows kids to get out into the landscape a little bit more, see how it works, and where you see item four on the left hand side, those rectilinear stones between the plant beds. That's another place where those canal stones could potentially be used. Last thing on here that we want to mention is the African American Heritage Trail signage. So again, we're not exactly sure where the sign placement will be, but the trail continues through this park and it also continues up through the waterfront park as well. So this will be one of those things that ties the whole waterfront together and it will be incorporated in some way. I think with that we can go to the next slide. So historic shoreline expression. Again, we have two ways that the shoreline is expressed and this is just continuing what's already been established at the waterfront. So there's the 1749 shoreline ban, which is a little bit wider and it's cobbles. And then we have the historic 1845 shoreline, which is the little bit wider and its cobbles and then we have the historic 1845 shoreline which is the blue dash lines on the plan. So we're proposing that we keep the shoreline expression to the paving areas only and you can see the light gray dashes that represents the rough historic shoreline outline. And so in the line areas we recommend not doing the shoreline expression there because we're trying to maximize programmability. So if we had the pavers in the line of a tripping hazard it would be a safety concern. So doing it in the hardscape and even in the plant beds potentially seems like enough to tell the story and if we feel the need there could be a signage panel or something that shows that full outline of the historic shoreline on the site. So materials plan, we're not going to go through all these elements line by line. But the main takeaways are we're continuing the Robinson landing paving along the entire promenade. So there will be some continuity there. We're also extending it out over the wharf. We considered wood here, but there will be a concrete substructure to that wharf. So it limits what we can do in terms of paving. And then also just because of the steps down to the waterfront, we want to make sure that that's very resilient and it's very durable little last for years for years and years and so it's going to harder edge as a little bit better of an option from that standpoint. And then the other thing to note is anywhere that you see stairs, anywhere that there are planter walls, seat walls, that materiality and even the detailing could potentially match what's done at Robinson landing. So again this park feels like an extension of what's already been established. We talked about the canal stones already. The other thing to note is the brick paving. So we're keeping the common elements brick to the perimeter and then everything within the park would be concrete because it's a little bit more park like and it's a nice way to transition between that historic brick paving and the more modern promenade paving. And with the concrete, we can even think about different things that we can do with the mixes. You know, you can look at aggregates and there are different things that you can do so that it's a little bit more special than just standard for it in place concrete. And the concrete also works really well with the banding that we're proposing in the gateway walk and other places. And then just some images. So there's nothing really different here from what you've seen already. But again, that Robinson Landing Paving, the Historic Shoreline Banding, granite banding, brick around the perimeter, the stepping stones that would be the repurposed canal stone, hopefully that's our intent. And then the stabilized granite pathway mix, so that would be used in those nature play and learning node areas next to the buyer retention. And then wood zacking. So again, this happens next to the promenade. You can see we're proposing that it's more in the gray palette. This is also consistent with what Olen showed in the common elements. And it makes sense because of the variegated gray paving and the planter walls and stairs and everything, the darker gray banding. it's all in that same gray family. And then furnishings and area lighting. So actually, let me just go to the next page. We'll talk about the furnishings for a moment. So the wood timber benches, these chunky wood shades lounges and the linear wood shades lounge, the create style seating. You can see the intent is that it's very shipyard and ship building inspired. It also has the nautical and waterfront feeling to it. And then the light poles, both the nautical themed pole and then the head post-reate light. Those are both straight from the common elements just continuing what's already been established. And you can see We also have some movable tables and chairs and then that canal stone seating So I'll just go back one slide so you can see where these things happen on the plan So the chunky wood chase lounges would be adjacent to the prom not so we see items F106 and F102 on the wood decking. Those would be those really shipyard inspired wood chase lounges and then the great style seating that we talked about earlier is along the shipyard walk. And I think we can move on from there. All right, and then park renderings. So this is a view looking out to where the Potelomeco course from the park. The wood benches on each side of the roof, this gives you a nice idea of what it would really feel like to be out on that roof. The edges are open. So you really get that feeling that you're out over the water, which we think would be really nice. Again, just trying to really engage the river front in different ways. And then this is another view. So this is looking back toward the park. And this shade structure, I mean, if the seating were moved out of there, this is all flexible. There could potentially be a musician out here or some kind of a performer. And you can imagine people are sitting along those benches on the perimeter of the wharf and just taking it all in and enjoying the music or whatever is happening there. And then our third rendering. So this is looking north toward the waterfront park. And then this is our last rendering. So those steps down to the waterfront and the seat walls, we think this would be a really nice space just to sit on the seat walls and enjoy the view of the Potelmick, whether you have a snack or a beverage or something, it would just be a nice place to hang out. And again, especially if there's something happening underneath of that shade structure, whether it's music or some kind of entertainment, that whole work would just be a really vibrant and activated on an area for people to enjoy. And then coming soon so the waterfront park the pump station and King Street those will all be presented later on in June and you'll see some of the same ideas and elements continued in those areas as well. So with that, we'll open the floor for questions and comments. I want to thank you for your incredibly comprehensive and thoughtful presentation. I really enjoyed it because this is a concept review and not a certificate of appropriateness vote today. Typically what we would do is open it up to the public and hear from them first and then the board. So Brendan, how many speakers do we have? Roughly. I have three speaker forms. Okay, great. So if you have a speaker form and you're sitting on it and we've gone through the first three speakers, please, you know, it's feel free to bring it up. But let's call up our first two speakers. You can go either side. First speaker I have is a Vine Calhan representing the Old Town Civic Association. And Miss Calhan will be followed by Mr. Alcox. Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members. The board, my name is Avon Calahan. I live at 735 South Least Street. And the waterfront has been part of my life since 1964, when I first moved here. And watched the kids build boats that then started to sink and then the coast guard would have to go get them. We really like everything we heard. Congratulations to staff, congratulations to the consultants. We feel that this has become a vindication of the Olin plan. We're delighted to hear the concerns that you've heard tonight about endorsing and following the Olin plan wherever possible. We know that climate change might require some tinkering, but by and large, a plan that was discussed, y'all about bickered over whatever you wanna say for a number of years before it was adopted should not, we're glad to see that it's been revived as it were. So no specifics at this point in time. You're going to be hearing, I think, a little bit more about how climate change might dictate a few little pushes here and there. I'm personally concerned about the shading structures, but in general, this is a great way to go and it's recognizing what we all work for for so many years. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Kellyanne. Next is Al Cox, who will be followed by Norm Leiter. Chair Scott and members of the BAR. My name is Al Cox, 311 North Alfred Street. When I appeared before you in January, I expressed extreme concern that the city had abandoned the waterfront master plan that had been approved by the community city council and this BIR in 2014. Thanks to the diligent lobbying of Matt Landis, the city manager, last Monday city council approved additional funding to construct the beautiful part that's before you this evening. I strongly encourage the B.A.R. to approve the landscape plan that's before you. The only real concern I have is that point-lum-um-have-on-point-lumly is that the park streets and sidewalks nearby be elevated as much as possible to limit the amount of water that will need to be pumped from the bathtub during a flood event. Because obviously the more it's raised, the less water there is, the perhaps smaller the pump. And the community continues to work with Matt's team on the sides and location of the pump station and water from Park. I look forward to seeing you when that case returns. Just as an aside something I heard this evening, Michael Curtis was the sculpture of the shipbuilder statue as well as the General Eisenhower statue over by the Metro. My wife led the fundraising to give the shipbuilder statue and its base to the city and for the installation. I know the artist felt strongly about the base because we didn't wanna have to raise any more money to build it, but he did. And I believe, Diane Rosario has told me in the past, she's with Parks and Rec that the artist actually needs to be consulted any time a statue is being moved or changed. And I'm sure the team will go through that when it's appropriate. But bottom line, we came so far since January. And I really applaud the team and I thank them for their work. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Cox. Who's next? Mr. Harris? Our next is Norm Leiter. Hi, good evening. My name is Norm and leader 14 Duke Street. Just a couple comments. It's very beautiful presentation. Nice elements to the park. A couple of things I would recommend reviewing. I've sent these over to Mr. Landis twice in the last six months. I wanted to consider in the northwest corner of the park those three utility poles if they could be buried. I know there's expense, but we're putting so much money into the beautiful park to have these three poles there with utility lines. Makes it look like a third-wheeled country. Baring those poles, bearing the power lines would really enhance the sight line of the park in that area there. So I know it's cost, I know it's probably a big cost, but also it would help maintain power. Because underground utilities are more reliable than overhead utilities. The second point I have is, as I said to Mr. O'Landis, is consideration to widen the Strand Street, 12 feet to the east. Right now, I live in that area. There's loading trucks that go seven days a week. You have four or five restaurants in the area that have constant loading going on seven days a week. And it creates traffic jams and double parking and. A movement issue in that whole area and the safety issue to. If we could take 12 feet of the park to the east and make a loading lane between that fire lane that's currently there and to the power poles that are there, whatever they're removed, make an off one lane for a loading and unloading of delivery trucks. Now it would be the time to do it. We're not going to get in our bite of the apple. Once this park is built, there's no chance of that happening. I'd like this serious consideration given to this idea. That's all I have. Thank you. Thank you very much. The last speaker for my have is for Stephen Malone. I just want to compliment staff, the ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and It's all, a lot of, there's a lot of details in this. Great to see that they're brick herring bone or a diagonal like the streets where it now was the answer for this 275 year history. And continuing the high quality concrete pavers along the waterfront. I had one design suggestion that regard. In addition to agreeing with Mr. Cox's comment that if, I know you're dealing with a lot of delicate crates here and that Trace Chadwick building is right there and you really can't raise it a lot, but if there's a ability to raise it even by some inches it may help I think it's a great balance between Green and hardscape. It's great to see those delays of trees in there and the retention area. And one design suggestion where you're having concrete in between the proposed brick and the concrete pavers. Where you do have concrete, and we haven't been very good at doing this lately in the city in the last few decades. DC is great at it now, but when concrete was first put in an old town in the early 20th century, it was smaller modular divides. It's generally two by two or three by three, never four by four. And now the city is like ripping our sidewalks up in old town and we would love to have brick, but they keep telling us there's no money for it. And so we're getting giant concrete slabs. And they're irregular. They're like seven feet by seven feet. I think if this would be great, if you could maintain, depending on the width of your pathways, that they be the modules would be no greater than two by two to two, three by three. And it breaks it up. But it fits better with our scale in an old town, I think we'll balance better between the, the concrete pavers and the regular clay brick. Thank you very much for all the work that went into this so far. Thank you, Mr. Mulan. You've just received another speaker forum for Stephen Wintermire. Mr. Chair, members of the board, thank you for the opportunity to speak on Point Lonely Park. It turns out I'm basically going to echo what the gentleman just said a couple minutes ago about the utility polls. First of all, my name is Stephen Winchmire. I live at 225 St. Street, unit 305. I live across the street from the parking lot just north of Point-Londley Park. So in a sense, we're talking about my front yard here, but I'm very fortunate to have it as my front yard. When I moved in about five years ago, our realtor said, hey, don't worry about those utility poles are gonna be buried. I did my due diligence and looked online at the city's plans, and yes indeed, are going to be buried. A couple of years ago there was a sign put up in Point Lumbly Park about the garden that the Rosenbaum's have donated money for and there's no evidence of any polls left. In the document that is online for tonight's meeting the polls are there which is a clear change from the plans that were before. My point is similar to the gentlemen previously, if we're gonna make the park beautiful and make it a very nice park, I don't see that the utility polls should be there. I echo the gentlemen that they should be buried. Thank you. Thank you. I do not have any more speaker forms. Looks like we have one member of the public who's like to speak. If there's anyone else who wants to speak, feel free to. Feel free to. Feel free to. You can just bring it over. Just giving the form after you're done speaking. Okay. Thank you. My name is Ann Richard Jenis. I live at 225 Strand Street, directly across the street from the park. I wanna thank you very much for the presentation that was made. It was very informative and I now know much more about the project and I can see that enormous amount of thought and work went into the plan. So thank you very much for that. I don't have a lot, but with respect to the pumping station and the location, that's for a different hearing, I understand. But I do have three points. I want to echo what has previously been said about bearing the power lines. My understanding was that the original master plan called for those power lines to be buried. And certainly from our perspective in terms of what we're looking at from our building, but also the points made previously about the general environment for the park, bearing those power lines would make a big difference. And I also encourage you to reconsider that and make sure that these power lines are bearing. Second, my second point is the ship builder statue. I kind of concur with your preference to do that without the pedestal. I think it would be better and so for what it's worth, that's one person's opinion. And finally, the point that was made before about expanding strand street, I would really be opposed to that. The amount of disruption that we're already in an experience as a result of this project would be exacerbated by expanding strand street. And it would also lead to a lot more noise and a lot more traffic. So I would disagree with the point that was made before. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any other members of the public who would like to speak on this? Have you filled out a speaker form? No, but I just want to say for myself it is remarks. I'm John Rapierle, 35, Strancht Street as well. Can you speak into the microphone just so we get you, you have to just button to turn it on. And then if you don't mind filling out a speaker format. Oh, well, thank you. I'm John D. Rapierle, 225, Strancht Street. And I just wanted to, I thought he said it all perfectly and I just wanted to express my support. My wife is very concerned about those light poles. She's out of town at night so I'll sit here for two hours. But that's what I came to say. Thank you. Have a nice evening. Well, thank you. We appreciate that. Is there anybody else that wants to talk? All right. Well, I've asked everybody else to go first today. So I'm gonna briefly give my thoughts and then turn it over to my colleagues on the board. I just want to echo the comments of everyone from the public in appreciation of how thorough and thoughtful this park concept is. I've been on the board for several years and this is the best concept review that we've had. So congratulations. A couple of comments. One, I do like the idea of, of course, aggregate concrete in those areas inside the park. There's many examples, as Mr. Mollon said, in Washington, D.C., especially in and around the Capitol. It's just a beautiful, um, paving material, too. I, you asked the question about where to put the statue. I think your location, your preferred location, and I think the Southwest corner of the park makes the best sense, especially since people are always engaged by statues and they're gonna stand there looking at it. I think you want more activation down by the river and probably more contemplation a little bit farther away, so people aren't in the way. Number three, my only concern to be honest with you, and this is probably just the lawyer in me, is your wooden benches on the Worf structure, I just feel like people are gonna fall in the water. And so I would honestly talk to the city attorney about this, because it's gonna be lawsuits against the city if people fall into the water, and that could cost the taxpayers a lot of money. I do think that the gentle steps down to the water, it's you have to kind of be more intentional about walking down to the water at the end of the Worf structure, but on the flanks, if you're having events out there, people are gonna get drunk and fall on the river. Number four, I like your idea of continuing the materials from Robinson Landing. So that's all I have to say. Who wants to talk next? Sorry. I also appreciate just the simplicity of this design and the openness. I live in Old Town and connecting Robinson with King Street is really going to really activate the whole waterfront. So I think that's a great idea. For the statue, I prefer the middle location because I think the ship builder wants to look at the river. He just want to look up the street or anywhere else and I think that will be a nice location. For the wharf, I really, you know, the wooden benches, I love that. It may be if they're deeper or maybe the end of them is a planter that people won't put their legs off the other side. Maybe there's some design issue can do to limit that. And stepping down to the water is great. You know, at the end of King Street, all the kids are on the rocks and they all want to be right next to the water and feed the ducks and the floating wetlands as you know genius that's going to be great. The kayak launch, you know it's a sustainable project you're showing two kayaks and it's kind of off to the side and it's full of all the gas powered boats everywhere. I mean, could we have two kayaks launches or, you know, could that be something that's, you know, a little more activated. It'll activate the park. You know, as a preschool designer, I'm sensitive about this sense of discovery in the park and you know how kids can engage in the park and You know next to the parking lot the old dominion parking lot. I think is There may be other locations or at least put a fence So I don't go into the parking lot but to to Ms. Callahan's comment, and I know that would be some kind of cost, but is there a water feature where kids could build a ship or sail a ship? I mean, it's your ship building park. So I think you have an opportunity to do something creative that's going to engage children. I think children really love the waterfront. They love Wild Baby Park. You know, that's got the artificial turf. And I'm thinking all of the open area that's basically grass, right? Is it natural grass? Okay, that'll be good. So I think that's all I had. Thank you. I'm really excited about it. It's going to be great. OK, who's next? Ms. Andian? That was a great presentation. Thank you. I really appreciate the simplicity, the directionality and the recognition of the park. And I agree with the raised sidewalks and the path phase. Obviously, it really helps when we have brain. As far as the benches on the wall, as well, I agree that it could be a bit dangerous. But I think maybe with a little bit like design to it, maybe if you add some raised planters behind them to create a separation to the water or some sort of solution. We can maybe explore a little bit more. But other than that, it's a really nice design. Thank you. So, thank you. Great presentation. Really enjoyed it. And I guess, and your preferred location for the chip builder, which direction would he be facing? So if we position in the arrival plaza, I think it would face outward so that when people are entering the park, they get the contact with the chip builder's face and so you get that. And see, I liked the location, but I think I agree with Ms. Downey, you know, that he wants to look out towards the water. And then it's like he's walking to work in theory. That's kind of how I envisioned it, especially since you had the wall element that was talking about how a ship was going to get built and you kind of walk your way to the water, learning how to ship, see it build. And I am intrigued by Miss Downey's idea of, maybe there is an opportunity for the kids to get involved somehow, to engage the water front even more by having some kind of small ship building activities out there that would be kind of interesting and cool. But I do like your preferred location. I just think it needs to face the water. The ship builder needs to face the water. And I am also on team no base for the ship builder. I think that's because I agree that people would probably engage with it more if it was not sitting on a base. Because usually when I see statues on the base, I just kind of walk by them and I might read the, what's at the bottom of them, they're at almost high level then that's I feel almost like it's a person that I'm engaging with I do like the choice of materials and I do think I guess I'll talk about the The Worf area I actually do love the seating idea But I just agree that you probably should take another look at and see if there's a way to make it a little safer out there. I know there are parts of our waterfront that has ropes on it to keep people from falling over the edge. I'm not saying that that's your solution, but I just think that we should probably pay a little more attention if we're going to have people sitting right on the edge and safety there. And I do like your interactive storm order area that was kinda cool with if the kids could actually kinda explore in that area and possibly learn things about storm order management and theory. I mean, you never know what you learn from the environment around you if you get engaged. I'm going to let Mr. Lines have the last word, but before I want to say one more thing, I thought that I'd had about your preferred location is that it's actually very near one of those linear granite markings of one of the historical shorelines, and I think there's a learning teaching opportunity there to really think about how the shipbuilders pushed that shoreline forward how the city encroached on the river. And I think it's just a nice little connection in that spot and maybe an opportunity for some kind of history lessons. So with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Williams. Next, I will, as the last item on the dock and the last beaker, I feel pressured to make this short. But I will give you my comments. I mean, yeah, wow. I mean, the presentation was great. I mean, I've looked around my life in the parks and the river had been a big part of it, whether it was playing soccer at John's point or the now, no longer exists right across festival that used to be down the river further, but there's still plenty of festivals that go on and I think the thing is, is that people already think it's great. You know, I can only imagine what they're going to say when they see this version, which is a little concerning, as a citizen, that just means just means more tourist, but that's a good thing. My only comment as far as the statue, I like your preferred location. I do like it turned towards the river. Though I would, I like it on the pedestal because I think, because I think with it being turned, that it's then gonna sort of overlook the park, the rest of the park, so that you'll be able to see it if you're on an event, so you'll still be able to see it if it's up on the pedestal more so that it's on the ground. So anyway, just for, I think, you'd want to be seen from wherever. Yeah, I really love it. You don't put the war section because I'm here right now that's's kind of just, you know, real eyes who are, but I mean, I think that's going to be a big upgrade by itself. And yeah, the only other thing, you know, and this is just probably me, all the movable things I like, but I've just noticed that there's a, I find that movable stuff throughout the King Street area that was started out by the river. And then the next thing I know I see a piece of it, you know, up at the corner of Fairfax King or I see it down it, you know, the middle Robinson landing, you know. So I think it's important to have some of it. I'm just saying, you know, maybe scale up back some because I just feel like I'm going to find one of those square blocks in front of my house one day, so But yeah, overall great just wow and I can't wait to see it Would you like to add anything? Well, thank you so much for your feedback and we're just so excited that it has been well received and Really looking forward to moving this forward with the community. So thank you so much. All right. Ms. Helman, what else do we have today? That's the last item on the docket. Great. Well, I just would like to thank Ms. Helman, Mr. Harris, for staying up late with us. All of the city staff for preparing these excellent staff reports. If you've never read one of the city staff reports about any of the projects, I recommend them to you. They're incredibly detailed registry of our city. Thank you for all the citizens for coming out and talking and telling us what your thoughts are. We really appreciate it. I hope everybody has a great night and this meeting is adjourned.