Good afternoon. Today is Monday, May 12th. It is 4 o'clock and this is a work session at the Snowmass Village Town Council. The first item on the agenda, we are excited to have our friends from Anderson Ranch here to give us an update. Well, this is thank you. Thank you for happening are having us Red up Susan Tom. We appreciate being here the the town has been a great partner to the ranch for longer than I've been alive Almost 60 years Since the ranch was founded and we really wanted to come and just share a little bit about some of the things going on at the ranch I feel a little bit like we're siblings that haven't had enough family calls or something But we love this this town, especially Clint has been a great partner, comes down and sees us. I get a lunch out of it, let's be honest. Yeah, it's a pretty lunch. Julia and I sit on the Acroboard and really enjoyed getting to know each other as well. But we think of the ranch as your ranch. We think of the ranch as snowmast village and we really think of as this part of our community. So thank you for letting me come. I'm here representing 35. we think of the ranch as snowmast village. And we really think of as this part of our community. So thank you for letting me come. I'm here representing 35 staff members down at the ranch. I think sometimes people don't realize how big our staff is. Brought to with me, actually, as the COO has been at the ranch for over 10 years. Lindsay joined us six years ago, I think, Lindsey Portia. And excited to have them join me. If you ask any really hard questions, then they're here to bail me out. I think you guys know me a little bit, but I sort of started and thought I should tell you a little bit about myself leading the ranch since COVID hit almost immediately after I took over. I haven't had a lot of chances to interact with people. I moved to Aspen, Snowmass, area 25 years ago with my best friend from childhood who bought a place at seasons four. We were snowboarders, so we came here more than we actually skied anywhere else to go up Snowmass. But I moved here in 1999 after having sold a business I'd started with my mother selling books in the Midwest. And really like everybody else had no real plan to stay on no real job prospects. So I waited in restaurants, did some business accounting, married from somebody to marry met her through Aspen Young Professional Association. I think you know my life Jennifer. Yeah. If you know my wife Jennifer, she also said there's a few things you need. One is a steady paycheck. The other is health insurance and the final one is a 401k. So she convinced me to go work for the Aspen Institute. And that was, I guess, 17 years ago, is there for about a decade. I ran their Society of Fellows program, which was kind of their national membership program. After about 10 years, a previous chair of the Institute and Corlogos was a big fan of Anderson Ranch. She'd been been the chair here. She kept taking me out for lunch and telling me how cool the ranch was and finally convinced me to come over. So that was 2019, had one really fun first year and then COVID. We'll talk a little bit about the health of the ranch. But I'm raising two kids in the valley my son turned 12, but same age as as British kids my son turned 12 on Thursday my daughter turned 14 today so I'm in the middle of the middle school middle school years. Well, thank you for allowing me just that quick moment to be a little bit of who I am because I hope to get to know all of you a little bit better if you'll switch my slide for me real quick. We all know the ranch has been here for 60 years. I like to to a degree start. There's so many things we do at the ranch. Our mission is really about making. It's an education center and we see it as a place where people come to learn to develop personally, to develop professionally, to develop in their hobbies in art making. Really world renowned thanks to the work of Doug Kasper and Paul Soldner. I mean really amazing people who have worked as predecessors to me at the ranch, really built that out. Doug took a lot of groups traveling around the country and got a lot of artists to come to the ranch. So we're, I think most proud when we run into it goes in the Houston Art Museum and we're talking about a piece there with the artist and one of the one of the docents, Williams-Overnie said, taken four classes at Anderson Ranch. It's the best. So the art world definitely sees this as a destination, but also one of the top non-academic art making places in the country, which I think is super exciting. for exciting. Mission, I'm actually gonna read it because we just rewrote it. Is to- also one of the top non-academic art making places in the country, which I think is super exciting. Mission, I'm actually going to read it because we just rewrote it. It's to foster transformative educational experiences in a strong sense of community through both traditional and contemporary art making on our vibrant Rocky Mountain campus. The reason I wanted to read it quickly is in going through the painful process of writing a mission statement with your board, we kept coming back to we want our campus and the fact that we are here in Snowmass in the mountains as central to who we are and what we do. And we really believe that and I think our leaning into it as a board. A board really wants us to stick with sort of our historic culture. I just put my slide real quick. And that really goes back to some kind of funky hippies that Chafen and Light invited to come over to that little central spot. And I think most of you know this, they were picking up old buildings around the valley as they redeveloped areas and they would put them on blocks and and truck them over to the ranch campus. So it really was a bunch of old historic buildings. And I think the oldest buildings remaining in Snowmass are all sort of part of our 14 building conglomerate there. Paul Soldner, marketing keeps telling me I'm not supposed to talk about this. It was a bit of a nudist. A lot of throwing pots in the nude, a lot of hot tubs. It was a pretty funky 60s, 70s place. And when I took over one of the the previous board chairs called me and he said, don't mess up the funkiness of the ranch. And we still sort of feel that way when we look at what we're doing, we want the ranch to very much stay true to this history as an art making place, it's sort of a counter culture center. And that was really a mix with people that would come for the summer and go take workshops with Paul Soldner or Brad Read Nelson or Doug and decades later, that stayed central to who the ranch was. That is a little bit those that group came, you flip that for me one time. There's a picture here, Sherry Hissler doing a self-portrait with students. That was the Center for the Eye program that came. We're actually doing an exhibition about the history of photography in Colorado this summer. So you have to combine, see it. But it is really cool. If you think of Ansel Adams kind of starting, the institute was bringing people in, all the groups were kind of working together. but the center for the eye and Sherry became the photography program at the ranch in the 60s. Sorry, I'll just go on. Those artists were pretty much given that space by the chafens and the lights and said, you can use it to make your own art. You have to figure out how to be a viable nonprofit. And then we'll give you the land. So they ran summer workshops, really the core offering of the ranch. We bring in about 1200 participants every summer to take workshops. They check in on Sunday night. They go through kind of a process of meeting their class, learning a new technique. It's fun to run because you really see them nervous on day one. They get confident on day two. They start doing something on day three. By Thursday, they have a panic attack because they're not going to get done everything they wanted to get done by Friday. It is an experience that's not just about their artistic technique, but them sort of like that summer campus center kids too. They connect with each other. They realize sort of the core of who they are in that class, but also in what they're trying to produce in that workshop to communicate that internal idea ending in a project that helps them connect with community. So community, that connection with each other, that personal growth is really as central to what we try to accomplish as is the outcome of that painting in the and. Sometimes the paintings aren't so great, but the personal experience is pretty amazing. We're running workshops from five-year-olds to 95-year-olds, from beginners to experts. The master classes are kind of an application to join on these three-year advanced mentor programs or highly competitive. We have three people that went through the photography program in the last three years that all received Pulitzer Prize for their journalism photojournalism this year. It's just a really high-level courses on one end and on the other end they let me come in and make watercolors. I could not bring an example. Really wanted to emphasize the branch is really driven on this educational mission to bring in a lot of young people. We run a internship program in the summer about a hundred people apply for 16 spots. And it is a intense work study experience, but like when the when the lifting show up in the fall, you can feel the vibe on campus. They're fun, they're young, they bring great energy. experience, but like when the when the lifting show up in the fall, you can feel the vibe on campus. They're fun. They're young. They bring great energy. But it is a educational program. They receive an award to continue their education at the end of the summer. A lot of scholarships about one out of four people on the ranch campus are on some level of scholarship to make sure we're accessible. A lot of those comes from partnerships with colleges, art schools around the country. You guys support local scholarships for snowmessivillage people to come. Asking an education foundation is funding scholarships for youth. It really drives a lot of the culture on campus. We do a lot of programming with high school kids as well, mentor programs. We host a career. You can do your outdoor ed experience right over here in Snowmass Village, sleep in the quanset hut and take our classes. But really committed to that youth programming. And a lot of what we do in Serving the Valley ties to youth programming. So workshops run June, July, August and September. It's really intense on campus. It's a lot of fun. When we roll into the fall, winter and spring, we have, I would say just as much intensity, but it's smaller people for longer periods of time. The artist and residency program, we get about 400 applications, we accept about 35 of them, to come, they either spend 10 weeks in the fall or two five week sessions in the spring. It is super competitive. If you think about it, it kind of hits that market of, I just think, I'm just going to call artists market. They would not like that. Their mid career, emerging career, maybe they're starting to have their first solo show and they're coming to the ranch to kind of finish that body of work. So a higher level artist, they're for a longer period of time. And then the Visiting Artist Program overlaps that as well, which is an invitation program. These are, frankly, the top artists in the country. A lot of them have a studio in New York. They've got three staff members working on their body of work and their business machine. And they come of the ranch to do something different, to reconnect with our creativity. We've got, had a great ceramicist, Ruby Neary, here in the spring, huge career in ceramics, pieces in the moment in the mat. She wanted to make prints because she'd never done that before. So she's literally etching on a stone, lithography stone, and making prints. That happens a lot at the the ranch and that higher level artist raises the bar for those residents that raises the bar for the workshop students and it's really kind of part of what makes the ranch successful. It's part of what drives that that international um, relationship for us. I think I just want to, there we go. Um, I'll Ah, four. I'm going to get me back to the right spot. Okay. Um, if you want to go ahead. Yeah. The, I'd say the other side of the ranch when we look at our workshops, our residencies and the visiting artists, sort of the fourth leg of the table is our community engagement or community outreach. The ranch has been doing a picnic in the summer for almost 60 years. There's an auction that goes wrong with it. The five of that event is so fun. Everyone, art lovers, people that want free lunch, Bruce Burgers hot dogs, it's just a really fun event. We get about 500 people that come. If we look overall at the ranch, our estimates would be about 10,000 visitors a year coming through the ranch, whether that's summer lecture series, these public events. Just after COVID, working with one of our supporters, the Reyes family, some houses here in Snowmass, really wanted to lean into being, to presenting our community programs is something that really addresses a big community challenge. And the one we looked at was this divide in our community between the Latino community that really supports it and runs and makes a lot of this community function and the community that live here full time, live up Valley, frankly, the white, more privileged community. And finding ways to connect these. So we built a program that features a Latino artist every year. It builds a curriculum in Spanish and English. It brings teachers in to learn about that artist, to learn about that project. The end of that is to launch a Latino Arts Festival on campus. on overlap, I think, with the wine festival two years ago. We were a little surprised to have about 1,000 people show up. It is our now our biggest event. It is a phenomenal energy on campus. It is at least 50% Latino and coming to that event. It is really, you haven't been Please come but we're really proud of the service that provides to people who frankly are part of what makes our community work And we're really really proud of what it's turned into so you see kind of a list there of some of the larger events we do Across the community that I want to just kind of say that being a community center being accessible to this town is really critical to what we do. We we we we bristle especially Lindsay every time somebody calls us a hidden gem. We don't want to be hidden. We are running over 140 free events for the community a year. These are very arts focused events but bringing people on campus is really what makes people understand our culture and community. Really family-friendly, a lot of kids running around campus really helps kind of build that. We're trying and we're going to reach out to you on this point of getting more people just to see us as a place to come stop by. Our studios are open. We encourage people to walk in and out of the studios. It is really for us a reward and a privilege when people will come and walk through campus. And we'd love your help in kind of communicating that more. The, I'll let you figure out my slides. Good back and forth. I think. What I wanted to say that since you COVID was COVID was COVID was COVID was fun. The ramps stayed open any time we were legally allowed to stay open through COVID and compared to a lot of our peers who shut down some of them for a year to two years. We really wanted to stay open and deliver. We set up the outdoor sculpture exhibition, so it would be open to the community to come and walk through. But we've changed a lot since COVID. We've came out of COVID as a really strong organization. Our overall budget's up about 50% from before COVID. The majority of that has been invested in staff, helping staff build a livable long-term life in this community. Public engagement, outdoor sculpture exhibition, this increase in public events has really been a huge growth for us and we're really proud of that. A lot of focus on our campus actually oversees all the facilities, grounds and operations as the COO, but if you come to campus, it looks great. Maintenance on buildings, accessibility, we're just really proud of that physical space on how it's working for the community. I am completely challenged by the, there you go. Maybe that, you know, maybe I'm repeating, getting ahead of my slide a little bit, but we really want the community to come down, but we're also bringing in a lot of people to this town, 80% of our participants fly in as a destination to come to the ranch. Their e-d-mails here, their stain in the hotels here, they're bringing a huge amount of diversity from around the country. As I mentioned, one out of four of them is on scholarship. So it's really an accessible way for people to come to snowmast that would not otherwise do so. And through those college partnerships, good half of them are in their 20s or younger. And so we're really proud to be bringing a lot of youth into this community and seeing what a special place it is. Like a double finger. I mentioned the outer sculpture exhibition. And really, if I digress a little here, the one of the things we're really talking about a lot as the ranch is if you come and visit our campus, it all faces in. There's that internal courtyard, the workshops face in, that we want people to see and come onto campus. And part of that, the sculpture exhibition was a way to invite people on campus. We're really excited about the public art partnership with you guys to bring a sculpture off campus that people can see is connected to that and come in. But we're looking for a way to partner with you and bringing people to campus. We're really excited to work with Mirta about the the Wii cycle. I think I saw most of you down at the the ribbon cutting, but every station around snowmasses is designed with the art of a different artist involved with the ranch, which we think is super fun. This is Lindsay who is the coordinator in our paint paint program. But we're looking for ways to partner. We're also looking for ways to connect to the whole town back to what's going on at the range. The part of what I think has made the ranch really strong coming out of COVID is we've a really great board at the moment. Really pushed to have a strategic plan that would help us focus on what we need to do now to be ready for 25 years from now or 50 years for now. That includes for three areas of that plan, one is really strengthening staff and board function. One is making sure our programs stay well true to the sort of core programming that we offer at the ranch, but you're continuing to innovate and develop from those programs. And then finally, what is that financial plan? What is that plan for our physical plant? What is the program that we need to be ready for those next 50 years? I'd say within that plan a real focus is around campus. It's one of the reasons I really wanted to kind of get in front of you guys early in the planning of that effort. I forgot all about all my units, but we're doing good. Yes. That's really starting with a larger campus audit. What do we need on campus? A lot of our facilities are 30 to 40 years old. It was the last time the ranch did sort of a big building or campus expansion. It's actually kind of funny if you look at some of the maps of campus, buildings are in completely different spots. And some of those are things were kind of currently structured with, but the cabins that are now on the golf course side used to be on the roadside. Some of our licenses still have those buildings in the wrong spot. So we're trying to get and pull all that information together. Ashley is really leading that for the team. But that aging infrastructure is starting to catch up with us. Boilers are going out, roofs are going out. And we need to really get ahead of what those are. While at the same time kind of looking at what we need next while preserving what we currently have. So what are those critical needs? I'd say really for us the message of that is we want to preserve the the historic campus we have. We have the oldest buildings we think on in the village. We also the campus was almost entirely designed as a volunteer project by Harry Teague. Amazing architect. I think Tom, you're an architect, right? The music festival campus, the tent, I mean, he's really a gem of this community and almost our entire company. The campus is uniquely designed by him. I think there are two buildings that are an exception to how they fit together. So we want to preserve that, but we also want to figure out what we need, kind of, to do next. That drives largely in our kind of first review, is we're really struggling with housing as are you, as as every business and snowmass village. A lot of our staff used to rent places up here in the village. Now a lot of them are in the salt or carbon-dale, which is changing the dynamic of campus. It's changing the dynamic of our town. So really finding ways to support them as employees to make a really great life, but also make sure that that active artists and the educators at the ranch are part of our snowmast community here as critical as we look at that. The other is that the expansion of town, you guys have done an amazing job of like building a community and making and building guests coming over the last 10 years. That has raised the price of hotel rooms that used to be almost free for us to rent in the summers. So now our guests when they come are struggling financially to pay for a room while they're here. So we're really looking at how do we house our faculty, how do we house participating students, and figuring out that. We have a dorm on campus as capacity for 30, 35. And yet we're hosting in the summer 100 to 120 people a week on campus. So we're really grappling with these things. We know that that you as council and division for the community are grappling with these same ideas. So we wanted to start that conversation as we're looking for solutions on our campus and in the community that we can work together and try and find solutions for those things. And I guess sort of my final slide, we really want to be a partner with you. Partnering with you is a direct statement out of our strategic plan. It's to build a better relationship and work with the town of snowmass as part of our community. Really leaning in for us to that Latino community. We really see the people who we are driving into town that are maintaining buildings that are making restaurants work. How do we continue to build them into our community? And you know, as a campus, we are built on a hill largely with gravel walkways. We really want to be a place that's accessible to handicap people that are safe for elderly people to walk down to the lecture halls. Energy efficiency is a huge focus for us as we look at this plan. Most of the campus was built as a summer workshop with a lot of those buildings not being used the rest of the year. So really leading in to how to create some energy efficiency and be a more sustainable campus, which again mimics a lot of what you're trying to do as a town. So maybe one of my colleagues will have to bail me out because I forgot to read my notes as I talked. There are things that Ashley you'd like to add or Lindsay. Thank you. Touched on a lot. Okay. I was hoping to get through that quickly so we could have a bit of a conversation. I'd love to know if you've taken workshops, how do you guys think about the branch? Where do you see opportunities for us as we look through that kind of plan for the next few years? Well, I'll just start off and today I think we're very lucky to have Anderson Ranch in the community. I mean, you guys are well regarded around the world. And I think it's what makes NOMAS special to have something like Anderson Ranch here. I think there's always, you know, we're always talking about ways to engage the community and utilizing partnerships with Anderson Ranch, I think is key. I also sit ex officio on the saw board. So like I've seen, you know, the conversations about the sculpture and the picture that was up before was the artist we approved just in case you guys didn't know. But I think it's really that that's the artist. I just think it's really neat to see that and I hope that there's more of that in ways you know ways that we could help bring people to the ranch or doing more of our community focused things. I mean, we do coffees with council. Maybe it'd be fun to do one at Anderson Ranch. It's just like, you know, that would be really cool. So we would love that. Yeah. Yeah, that would be great. But no, I mean, when my kids were little, they did the camp all the time at the ranch. And I think it is just, it's really just such a cool cool spot so thank you. But others, comment, thoughts. Well gosh, the ranch has been a huge part of my life. I live right above it. I spent a lot of my childhood going to classes there, had my kids go to classes there. The last photography I class I took was actually 16 years ago so I regret I haven haven't been down there in a while to take a class. But it is one of those kind of elusive experiences that we forget about in town, but it's so amazing when you're there. So thank you for continuing to remind our community and ourselves up here about all the things that happened down there. If you don't attend some of those summer workshops or if you haven't been to the events and festivals, please do. I'm saying that to the public and council members, but also it's a great reminder to myself that that incredible place is there. And I was driving over here trying to think through like what are some more ways that we can cross pollinate and do more. I am so excited about this sculpture project. I do think that's going to help, you know, bring interest or just get people talking about the ranch when they're not down there. And yeah, the recycle, I mean, we've got some things happening, but it's always great to keep it up front of mind. So appreciate your time today. Any other thoughts? Yeah, I just, I definitely think Anderson Ranch is just a gym and such a valuable part of snowmass. And I agree that we have more opportunities to maybe just make locals more aware of what's going on at the ranch and encourage them to participate and as well as our visitor. So all in favor of that for sure. And I just had a question about your current staff. Do you have current staff housing on campus right now? Do you want to know how many housing With the housing we have some on campus and then we're renting a few on the village, but Ashley's just done kind of a study of where everybody is. So we have two full staff cabins that are more designed for families that are on campus. And then we have two other units that are smaller apartments on campus. We also rent two units, one from Snimass Village, housing, and then another one privately that are mixed, you know, it's for some of our staff. So I think one of them has three. One of them now is actually hosting a family and it used to be a two bedroom for two different people at one point. So we try to do as much as we can. We also encourage our staff to engage and stay up to date with other housing opportunities. I think it's the challenge for us often is for most of our almost all of our staff, I would say, comes from outside of the area, just because a lot of them are specialized artists or just have got their MFA. And when they come here, it's that initial trying to find housing. And then also, I would say later on, when we have people who have families trying to figure out how to navigate that, but it is definitely a priority. Both, I would say the campus is a community. It's also important to have people living there on campus. Right, yeah, thank you. I um, you know, we would also probably be interested in partnering possibly on housing as we go through the draw site and maybe have some opportunity for partner. We would love to be a part of those conversations. So we were really determined to get, the housing we provided, the staff, we support in that housing, it's pretty much the artistic staff. So as administrative staff, that's where people are starting to be from far, you know, end up farther away. Right. Or another housing. But we have a great, I'm really proud of the longevity of a lot of our staff. Ashley's been with us for 14 years, 14 years. We've, Andrea Wallace has been with us for almost two decades. But even if you're here five to six years, you're barely starting to get access to the lottery system in some of those other programs. And the majority of the young people that are coming out, that really drive those positions say within the the workshop program every practice area has a coordinator. These are kind of jobs that you get out of your master's degree while you're trying to figure out if you want to go into a non-profit arts career, if you want to go into an academic arts career, if you want to go into a private individual practice. So there's a lot of what drives the success of our staff is having these really amazing people, but they're 25 to 30. And that is really a critically hard time for somebody to come into town and find housing. So trying to find a way to deal with the need for one of them to leave the next one comes, then it's a whole start back into the system again. I think that's been a real challenge for us in kind of water. Most of your staff full time year round or season. 35 full time year round go up to 60ish in the summer I see. To kind of make the summer intense program work. But other thing I would add about housing that the challenge is especially during those summer months I mean, we are our studios are open 24 seven. We have after hours monitoring that our staff has to have to do We have multiple events that happen after hours. So it's a really intense period and for someone who lives now We have staff like down to rifle rightful. It just, they sort of need to be close, which is why we prioritize in particular our artistic staff being closed because they are leading that community and needing to respond to, you know, programmatic aspects of the campus, operational issues, that kind of things. So the dorm style housing you just use in the summer? No, it's used to your around because the residents that come in the winter for those smaller groups. Okay. And they each have a single room. And would the idea be to rebuild that building? We would I think out of the staff, we can't imagine coming out of this the strategic offer to get that input. Yeah. That is that's the thing we get the most comments on from our exit surveys. Yeah. Is really struggling with the housing. It's incredible. I mean, we said 35 beds, but that's packed in. So I'm a lot of our bedrooms are Jack and Jill one one bathroom to four people or a quads. And I will have scholarship students in a pretty small room where we have, you know, for it also doesn't have like a communal kitchen or communal bathroom areas. So it just it was built in a very different way from our current needs and we really are maximizing what we can. And fortunately our students are so happy to be there that they make do. But it's yeah, it's a challenging facility for our operation now. Apparently, when I went to college, you had your room, and then you had to walk down the hallway. Apparently, kids live a little better than that college. Nice house. Yes. But definitely looks sort of modeled that would have been really state of the art about 1970. Yeah. Yeah. During my era. So yeah, well, we will, I mean, next week we are talking about the draw side and we'd love input from you guys, because you do need to house a lot of workers too. So as many businesses that are in the community that can participate in that process, I think is really wonderful. So it would be amazing for us. Yeah. I definitely want to invite you guys down. If you wanted to have a coffee or something with the town, would we would love to host it. We'd love to help. Be fun. I think we should. That'd be really. I'm going to invite you guys down. If you wanted to have a coffee or something with the town, we would love to host it. We'd love to help. We should be fine. I think we should be. I think that'd be really free. So, or you can do to hold the community and let the committee know you're there and there's stuff for them, even if you're not an artist, or if you're not going down to Bayard, I mean, to know that they're invited, they're included, I think it would be great. I think we need to do a better job of kind of looking open. It feels a little exclusive, you know. So yeah. Yeah. Um, well, I do have a great announcement for that, but you're guys getting, there's probably press. We're gonna, I'm gonna make my announcement and we're being listened to. The the ranch is really, I say, COVID was a bit of a wake-up call on how the cafe operated. So since COVID, we've been kind of a private way to feed our own staff. We brought in an amazing company, Sage Dining Services, who are now running the cafe. It will be open to the public this summer. We are not announcing that very loudly in June. If people come, we're ready. We'll make some more of a public announcement. I encourage people to come in July. We would like them just to see how a summer month works before we get 25 extra people come. The food is fantastic. It is really, I mean, like healthy, fresh, a big salad bar. And it is to go down there and eat a lot of them are communal tables. There are private tables, but you sit with this young amazing artist from the Magnet School, Chai Arts in Chicago. And next to you on the other side is a philanthropist who's taking a workshop and this equalizing experience of being in there and sharing and breaking bread together is such an amazing part of our community and the energy down there, the diversity of people in that cafe. It is pretty magical. Please come quietly in June. Bring the past to the floor. But yeah, we're super excited about the cafe and it will be great. It will run being open for lunches a year round. I'll obviously be close for a week or here and there, so the staff get a break, but it'll be next fall. You can come down to lunch when the residents are there as well. So we're super excited about that change. That's going to be great. That's a really nice feature. People can just like we cycle their way over. So I think on your right. That's awesome. Well, thank you guys so much. Do you have any questions for us? Really, just excited to be a better part of the conversation. I will say Ashley and I were talking earlier. We need to come to more of the council meetings and also lean into building a relationship. But thank you for letting us come. I thank you. Well, Clint, how could I ever talk to the council on? He was like next month. Second Tuesday. So thank you for being so so welcoming of us. But we'll we'll be and read. We know we're all struggling with the same issues. The town is built such an amazing strategic plan. Thank you for including us in the envisioning I can't remember what the last little interview process was, but we spent several hours on the phone with the consultant you were using talking about town and we appreciate how much you guys have included us and excited to see where where towns go and but we want to lean into preserving where we are and being innovative about where we need to go. Well we look forward to continue conversations and we'll look to Greg to get the coffee with council schedule. That would be really fun. Yeah we did we did all free swag so there's noves here. We brought you a few things. There are a lot of dogs on campus. So we have calendar each of the year, dogs of the ranch. Awesome. Our summer workshop schedule, we're doing a program in Nepal as well as on campus. We thought we'd share. Thank you. The Daniel Shaw put together a history book of the ranch a few years ago. In case you didn't have one, we gave each of you one. But it's sort of a beautiful story about the first 50 years of the ranch. That's now about eight years old. And we want to figure out what to put in the book for the next 50 years. But yeah, some really great stories about the past with the ranch. That's where we are. It's funny when I walked golf course and the winner at the dog, then you can always tell when an artist is on the path because they're always just like, you know, kind of out of their element, but they want to get out and take a breather. But it's fun to talk with them when they're when they're walking. So I've met some really nice people over the years. Well, so please, thank you guys. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Next up. people over here yourself. Well, so please. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Next up, we have EOTC Prap. I think we're going to have a. Raptor's going to come up and talk about their simpeticular first, and then we'll go to the rest of the prep. Great. Great. You guys want to come up, both. I'll get your presentation on. Just give me the table. Or whoever's going to come up both I'll get your presentation up Give me the table Or whoever's gonna come up you don't you guys can stay there if you don't have to come up Yeah, you were jacked and happy I think we will. We make a cafe. I got it. It's nice to see you again. I feel like we're all together. I'm going to have a lot of talk with cookies. No, but I will maybe bring some for Thursday. Um, cookies. Cookies. No, I brought them further after a treat because my gang made me feel bad if I didn't bring them. Good job. It's trying to celebrate or talent that he's going to be able to know about. I never knew about the competition. Oh yeah. It's a real thing. Yeah. Well, thanks for being here. Yeah, San Marino, Chair and Station Director. I am here to give an overall update on the coming EOTC meeting. On this Thursday, just a chance to ask questions go over what the topics are going to be really quick but as part of that meeting Raffta is going to be presenting on their zero-fair pilot program. So I'm going to but I'm going to give them the the floor first here to talk us through just what that is. So, sure go ahead to Dave Johnson and Mike Yang. I'm David Johnson the director of sustainability and legislative affairs. This is my king. I'm David Johnson, the director of sustainability and legislative affairs. This is Mike Yang. He's the chief financial. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Sorry. You are well known. We don't have any dog counters for you. I'm still ready. But we do have a pretty cool zero for a pilot program. We're going to be talking to the EOTC about that on Thursday. We wanted and we wanted to just give you a heads-up on that. So that's what we're doing today. Oh, thanks. This is the slides here. This is from board board meeting and pretty much it's this is great for consistency but of messaging but some of the stuff doesn't really apply so we'll go through them quickly and every one of them has kind of a trigger for me. So what we what raft is intended to do for this fall is to is to do a zero for a pilot program for what I'm saying is most of the fall 2025 operating season. We have four operating seasons and the fall is is one of our our our down seasons, although increasingly it's not so down as we all know, but it is it is it is a the point. We have a little bit lower ridership and this is a good time to try something like this. So what we want to do is we want to offer zero-fair service on our regional routes, which is where there are three regional routes that we currently currently charged a fair on. That's the Velociraptor BRT, the Valley Local on the Hogback. Million Bells is also a regional route, but that's not included. And it has contingent on finding financial partners to backfill what we estimate is going to be about $550,000 in lost fair revenue for this roughly 60-day period. So what we hope though, the pros of this or what we hope is, is we'll see a ridership increase during this fall season because we will be eliminating the affairs and I don't know if it was on the other slide or not, that the term of the program will be October the fairs. And I don't know if it was on the other slide or not. The term of the program will be October 1st. It's slightly shifted. October 1st to November 30th. I think before, I think in the previous side, it was a week before that. So what we hope is we'll see an increase in ridership without an increase in emissions from our buses because we hope that we can accommodate this ridership increase, we'll have excess capacity during this fall season. We won't need to add any extra buses. And of course, what we call another, the weather again will be in what we call a scope, scope three emissions. That's from passengers, not from our emissions, but from passengers leaving their cars at home and reducing emissions from leaving their cars at home and taking the bus. We also hope that this program will allow us to gain some information on what it would look like to operate zero fare throughout the day, both during the peak times, peak tap peak tap peak tap peak tap peak tap peak tap peak tap peak tap peak tap peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak peak, both during the peak times, peak hour peak direction and off peak as well. Some of the things we are concerned about is we do have to, we do have to find, we do need to backfill the approximately $450,000. And we are a little bit concerned about, about'll just say good, good to address writers. If it's free, we will see people that will just write the bus just to write the bus. And you know, the red and butter are services, is commuters, people getting to work, people getting to places they really need to go. So we want to make sure we don't offset or we don't deprioritize the people that really need to get places. And during peak times, even though this is an off peak time of year, we still could very likely see some standing remotely with this, with operating fair free. Oh, you're back. Good. That's right. Yeah. Measuring success. You might have played. Yeah. Yeah. Way in here. So as David said, this presentation that you're seeing, as David Johnson indicated, this presentation was given to the Raffer Board of Directors in April. And since then, as David alluded to, as we're kind of honing, like continuing the planning process for this project, in addition to some of the dates changing just to make it simpler to communicate and with by looking at the calendar months of October and November, we do recognize that currently we're also selling passes right now for the season. And so the last bullet point of cons is their business is currently buying passes now. And the bullet, as it says, it says refunds for portion of any passes sold. But as we're trying to get feedback from our staff, one of the things we're looking into is really because of the administrative process to do that. idea is trying to give passes, free passes for like two months worth to be used for the future. So that was just that of cash back. So give some free rights. You have to go to a store and you buy something you return in there like eight. You're looking for a cashback for the even credit to spend it. There's something similar to that. Just to help with the customers and also the our staff to just handle those transactions. I just wanted to clarify that. That was something that we're trying to just fine tune in a mend as we move forward. Thanks. So how are you going to measure success? What are we looking for here? Definitely want to see some increased boardings. We want to see minimal impacts to bus capacity. Again, that's what we're doing in the fall and minimal requirements for any additional buses and positive customer feedback, both from potentially new customers and from existing existing patrons. In terms of measurements, one of the things I said before is one of the things you wanna, one of our goals is to gain some information, get some understanding of what, of the impacts of going fair-free. So we will definitely be comparing boardings from last fall to this fall. Hopefully we will be estimating the emissions offsets greenhouse gases to the best of our ability. We will also be looking at what's happening during our traditional peak times. Are we having standing remotely? That sort of thing. And also staff and customer feedback. We'll also be doing a, we're also looking into doing an on board survey, a very brief on board survey during that time. We did do an on board survey, a comprehensive one in March. We don't want to barrage customers with surveys, but we do want to gauge their opinions, see how it's changed their travel behavior, those sorts of things. I think we'd be remiss not to do that. We have this out for trying this as a pilot program. And just to add one of the things about because this is a pilot, the unknown is what happens when you reduce the barrier of affairs. And we know that the town is like between here and brush creek and Aspen. It is a free zone, but that's not the case all the way down to rifle. So this is a, we're interested to see what happens, how that impacts our operations, not just on the buses, but our parking rides, and just seeing what we can learn from that, and take away some of that information from the survey data, was that enough to, was that enough to change the behavior of to get new transit users or just recurring passengers or recurring users of RAPDA, just using more frequently. So that's gonna be one of the interesting things that could help us in terms of just providing guidance for any future planning efforts in the down the line. So I just wanted to add that component to David. Thanks, Sam. Yep. We're not going to go over this slide too much. We just sure. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, that's fine. Just about to start. We did all of us. We did talk to some of our peer agencies about their experience with Fair Free Service. Just so happens that the state of Colorado has offered funding for agencies to go fair-free during summer months. This is called the Ozone Season Transit Grant Program. I think it's called that. And this was this was from the 2023 data. We have not participated in this program because this is during our peak summer season and we did not want to create over capacity situations for our buses that are already pretty much at capacity during the during our peak summer season. So we have not participated in this, but we did talk to these three agencies that are closely resum, that most closely resemble RAPTA and they experienced a 30 to 40% ridership increase during that three month program. Next slide, thanks. We can skip that one too, I think that's. But speaking of schedule, though, we do need to make decisions on this. I know fall seems maybe fall away, but not for after we really need to. We have a deadline of May 15 to make a decision on whether we going to proceed or not so we can get everything else lined up in place so we can have. Are there sources for the funding, the 550 that you need? I'm sorry. Are there sources for the 550,000 of funding that you need? I'll chime in. Thanks for your question. Now right now. Since we gave the presentation to the Raffer Board in April, Raffer has met with the City of Aspen Council to discuss this similar in a similar fashion. We do have a meeting. We do have a item scheduled for tomorrow's city of Aspen meeting for a budget request. And so I believe that's going to take place, I think, two o'clock to a clock tomorrow. There hasn't been any confirmation yet, but that's our first opportunity to hear of something. You know, we're trying to, so today we're speaking with you tomorrow, we're speaking with Picking County commissioners in the same fashion to give them some information, give them opportunities to ask questions about this pilot program, and then hopefully to help set up the agenda item on the May 15th, the OTC meeting for requests for funding. We have had staff conversations with the City of Gowood Springs about this program and to see whether or not there's any, not just interest, but any opportunities for any amount of support. I think that if Rafta is unable to gather the commitments for the $550,000 by the May 15 deadline, the fallback position would be to reconsider this for next during the 2026 budget planning cycle for an off season in next year. Just to take the same concept. And one of the things David Johnson mentioned was the reason why we're honing in on the off seasons is that's when we have a available capacity. Yeah, the capacity. Right. That's that's a big key component. Yeah. So hopefully that helps answer your question. Yeah. So no federal or state sources anymore. It's all local. You're looking correct. And one of the examples that David mentioned about that, um, those agencies who had tested a fair summer. That was through the summer, um, during the summer for a grant, uh, there was a grant program that was targeting summer months where there's high traffic volumes. So one of the requirements for that program would be to have that during the summer months. The reason why Raffa turned it down, I think, was it once or maybe even twice, is due to our success in having ridership, standing room only at peak times during the peak seasons. So, as David mentioned, that we wouldn't be able to accommodate the increased capacity. It would cause for challenges for the riders and for bus operators. How much is the fare on the bus? That's a good question. I think, oh. Thank you. You said that's the only one I want to go. Go ahead. I believe I believe I want to say maybe $7 is the highest one way. We do have like rifled aspen or something. Right, we do have a lot of past programs whether they're like 20 to 40 store value cards or 30 day zone passes or even seasonal zone passes which give which drops that amount when you buy the different types of passes so that and then for children it's It's free within the zone, but it's $1 system-wide for children. Just a little bit more context on that. I'm Dave Peasant, a check on the Chief Operating Officer with Raffta. So we've got, basically, I have eight zones. Within each of those eight zones, it's free. So we functionally have eight free zones now. If you want to go between zones, so in this case, so we're in snowmassing, go to Aspen, Woody Creek, and down to Brush Creek is all free. So that's a free zone. If you want to go down to the next zone, it's $2, and then each zone after that is a dollar. So if you're going, say, from rifle all the way up to Aspen, it would be $9. Thanks. That's a great, and then there's other discounts. Yeah. That's Evan. That's CashFair. Yeah. from rifle all the way up to Aspen would be $9. Okay. Thanks. Best rack rate and then there's other discounts. Yeah. That's seven. That's cash fair. No. No. No. Another thing I'd add just for Thursday, the request is 200 and something. I just blanked the number. Sorry. 200,000. It's to the EOTC. Staffs recommending it. there's a fund balance for it. These guys are just going through and I think this is why you guys actually wouldn't be acting on it. You'd be giving direction to prepare the extra to prepare for it. But these guys would get that yes or no, hopefully on Thursday for the entire EOTC whether they can plan for it or not. And then yeah, that's the big question for you guys Thursday night. And just to add, I think because there's a city of Aspen meeting tomorrow will have a little bit more information on what they what their action is so that could change the you know just change the calculus of what the the amount is yeah yeah so. The snowmass already pays something to get the free fare from here in Aspen basically something something in for that. Yes, we all do. We all pay it through a variety of different taxes. And then this grant that these guys are talking about, the ozone grants, what Sam's using for the summer expansion. And then, yeah, we all pay, we all pay equally into the OTC through a combination of sales taxes essentially. And then the EOTC then spits pays wrapped a chunk to make sure the fairs are free. And so, yes, and just, um, please, a correction. Yeah, there, and there was a, you were always welcome to correct. No, I, I, well, I remember working with Dave, uh, David, hasn't checked on this when he was working with the EOTC. There was a sales tax tax law change about taxing online sales and delivery. So because of that tax law change, we had a discussion and analysis done about how that impacts the EOTC's funding. So the EOTC, just based on the shift of sales taxes in youth taxes, there was a rapid board presentation and analysis done. And the decision was that Raptor would utilize the increase in sales taxes that it would collect because of the tax law change. and in lieu of any funds moving from EOTC to pay some of that cash, some of that cash, some of that, it's a top set, the cash to make it free. That has been something. I forgot that. We said thank you, and we're off. We got to do. I'm going to say, I don't know. You can't remember a text, a conversation about use tags, about bail tags, and how best distributed that's a tragedy. 26%. Yeah. Sorry. So. But yeah. So if they're the point of the hope for our discussion today was just to have this opportunity to hear, um, to share this with the other board members, council members, and then see if you have any questions or comments, but that's pretty much it. I have a question about the communities that did this summer program and their ridership increased, it looked like 30%ish or so. Did any of that carry over after the program and did they have increased ridership then? Yeah, we did ask that question. And yes, there was some carryover. And unfortunately, Susan, I can't remember. They actually did give us, you know, was a couple percent maybe in some instances, not every and not all, but now I can't remember the magnitude. And just to add, Susan, we had an experience locally here where there's free fairs outside of this region. It was, if you recall, during the Grand Avenue Bridge project, there was a large effort to keep traffic volumes at a certain level. And one of the things I know, RAPDA was appreciative of the U of T.C.'s contribution to help provide refairs during that time. Right. And I know that that was a time. And during that time period, were a lot of new writers that we tested out raft for the first time whether in the Roaring Fruit Valley or even the hog back and the I-70 corridor. And I know that and that experience helped give them an insight of what it feels like how to navigate rafters and not if they were intimidated or just you know, not sure Yeah, but because of that opportunity it did it did open the eyes and and You know of some new transit writers and that hogback service. Now is it's currently our fastest growing in terms of ridership service. That we deliver and so I believe that the so. Even though that was a temporary. Free fair period it did result in more awareness and openness to ride transit. Yeah, I would imagine that happens. And I guess I wonder if after this pilot program, if that happens and you have increased ridership, then do you have capacity to accommodate them? Which maybe we'll just take care of itself, I guess. But I wonder if there's any reason that you would consider incentives to like keep those riders going or keep like for employers to buy passes for them or whatever, just it seems like if you get them, you want to kind of keep them in the system. Right, I think that's one of the hopes, outcomes of having a survey was trying to identify percentage of writers during that time period that are new versus not new and also just trying to understand where they're going or they're coming from where they're going to but I think I think what you're speaking about you know we do we do have just just normal ongoing efforts to promote transit but I think that for this having a sense of who those newswriters are and trying to expand on whether they're circles or their families or their friends and colleagues, that's definitely an opportunity to not miss. So we'll have to to figure out, explore some options there. Great. Any other questions? There's two. That's it. I have more except for that I've been hearing about this for a while. So I don't have any time. Well, thank you. Thank you, guys, for coming out. I know for the Thursday meeting, David's will be there on behalf of Raffa, I believe. I'll be in Canyonlands with Marshalls out the Ridge. So good. Literally off the grid, I can't log in. Good. That's where you should be. Well, thanks, you guys. We appreciate it. Thanks for writing us. Yeah, thanks for coming. Thanks. Oh, fam. I got a ping, the agenda for the, I apologize. If I'm checking my phone, I could have to leave it somewhere. Yeah. And you should. But the, yes, normally I get a, you know, the phone buzzes. I don't look at it if I'm in a meeting. I guess every time. Oh, God. What's going on? So, one of the items on the agenda, we've just covered with the, with the RAPTA 0 Fair Pilot Program funding support. There, we're also going to have a presentation from Jacobs and the City of Aspen on the Highway 82 West Aspen Transportation needs update. The entrance to Aspen, as it's commonly known, they'll be talking a bit about the EIS, what that looks like if they were to reopen the record at a decision or get a new EIS or hopefully answer some questions and have the opportunity for some discussion about that. There was some more detailed information in the packet. I'm not going to dive too much into it because they're going to be giving a full presentation on that. I know Susan and Sessley saw this probably what's going to be a very similar presentation at the transportation coalition meeting, which is another topic that will have come up. The transportation coalition meeting will have some of the steering committee there to talk a little bit about what they're doing and what the direction of that committee is going to be over the coming months, trying to reduce congestion coming in and out of Aspen beyond any potential EIS or entrance Aspen changes. There'll also be a few information updates. Yes, I'm just I want to add just one quick thing. It's my understanding that the city has asked but obviously, but then Pick and County also has received the Jacob's presentation, a version of it already. So we're our team. TOSV is going to be a little bit behind. So if you got questions, feel free to ask because we're going to start a couple of steps behind on that presentation probably. So just going into it, they know that we know that. They asked, why do we need 60 minutes? There's some reorganization on the agenda, but it's because we haven't seen it. Can you just give us a summary of where all that sits right now in terms of Yeah, decisions have made what decisions are being made I mean where does it all sit they this is where I really want to have I want to open it but I do want to have them because Aspen city of Aspen will be there to tell you and it's changing minute to minute yeah the the most that I have right now is that they have, they've done a survey of the public to see where people's opinion lie on whether or not they're happy with the record decision or that they want to open a new AI, where they want to go. It came out about 50-50 on how people felt on it, so didn't give a lot of direction as for, there was an overwhelming support in one direction or the other. They've hired Jacobs to help them look at what, they're really focused right now on what would opening the EIS look like. What is, so a lot of that presentation is gonna be about just about that. What an EIS is, how they would restart the program. For any solution other than a minor modification of the program. Yeah, pretty much. They could do some smaller modifications to the straight shot, but anything more complicated, a new bridge, a split or anything like that is going to require reopening it. They have not made a decision on a next steps that I can speak to and that's where I'm looking forward to that opportunity for for y'all to be able to get a little bit more clarification if that's if that's what you'd like to know. Is it just information at the EOTC meeting or would be there won't be any decision making at all? No, this is even. It'll just be information and the opportunity to ask those kinds of questions. I would say that if there is a decision to enter into a new EIS, there will be many more opportunities for comment and true and participation. I have a question, Sam. The company that did this is going to do the presentation. Did they use the traffic counting data from the EOTC? I am not sure that they have that data, which will be getting an update on. I do not believe that they have had enough of that data to incorporate it directly into any of their timelines just didn't match up. So I think that most of this traffic counting information that they're getting and still verifying is coming in after the Jacobs needs report. Okay. So there will be a quick information item on both the automated vehicle counters which were installed with EOTC funding, what they're finding, and then the Brush Creek Park and Ride Monitoring Management Plan, which is a study being done to discuss better ways to monitor the activity out there, how it's being managed, how maybe it should be managed differently, being the breast cream parker, right? I don't know if you want to get into agenda at all. Well, I mean, I'll have to mayors speak with me on this one, but there was some concern about the order of this and the length of it. And so it's my understanding that they're going to reorder this and re-prioritize some of these topics, putting, let's see, Ralph at the first, everybody should have the presentation solution, make too long, hopefully to make that decision. The entrance second, the counter discussion would be after that. Then the coalition will give, hopefully, just 10 minutes, just introduce themselves and see what they're doing. There's not expected to be a long conversation. And then I think there's discussion. I know there's discussion and I think it's been decided that are going to remove the brush creek discussion, the brush creek management plan because it might not be ready to go. And so that should get a little closer to a two-hour type meeting, action packed, but two hours for it. So we're not going to vote on the brush creek. That's what I understand, Chris. Yeah, and even if it was as proposed up here, it was just an update. And so we're encouraged in the due, if they're just updates, let's get them in writing, we can read about them and go from there. And that's what I think should be coming up probably tomorrow. But the big one is putting a raft up front, getting that because that's's the only direction that's needed, rest of its information, and the next biggest topic obviously is the entrance. You see, I'm happy to answer any questions that you guys have about that, but that's it in a nutshell. I don't know any concerns. My main concern was just the timing and Clint and I worked through that and just knowing last time how much time the entrance discussion took. So I will be using my gaveled to keep us on time. I'm not worried about our council but you know, the others they like to check. So no coloring activities So this time. I'm not worried about our counsel, but you know, the others they like to check. You have them though. So, um, no coloring activities this time. Exactly. Um, okay. So, yeah, I mean, I don't, I felt it was pretty self-explanatory and there was good info in the packet and anyone else have any other questions for Sam? I mean, I guess I'd feel like there's a lot of information in the breast creek. And I would like kind of a summary of what's the goal? Where are we and, you know, what do we need to do now more? Like if Linda could provide that or whoever. And this was Friday or Thursday afternoon sometime late last week. I don't know that we have that. I think that's why it's it's not there's a lot of information you saw it. And I don't it was just kind of the updates. And I think the idea now is to say, right, let's pull this back. Get some more directions, some more, what are we looking for, and some direct define what the direction is that's needed rather than shotgunning it. Well, and I can jump in a little bit. I mean, where it's at right now, I mean, the reason behind it was there's been, there's a lot of different uses over the years of that parking ride, and not all of them are transit related, not all of them are parking ride related. And making sure that it's being used for the amount of spam, I mean, as a EOTC, as a county, we've put a lot of money into it over the past few years. And we plan on putting even more money into it. And so making sure that that money is being spent responsibly with a parking ride facility is kind of, and in a way that makes sense for the uses that we want to promote for that space. And so they've done so far and there's still more to be done. They've taken a look at some similar parking ride facilities, how they operate. One of the things that's come out is that a lot of them operate sheriff that we move away from overnight parking because of some of the abuse that's happened in the lot. There's some discussion on whether there should be airport parking there. Going down those roads looking at those things is what the purpose is and then on top of that what sort of some discussion on whether there should be airport parking there. Going down those roads, looking at those things is what the purpose is. And then on top of that, what sort of monitoring technology should we be using? Should there be license plate readers to track? How often it's being used? Should there be more remote technology, like just phone for carpooling instead of having a kiosk, things like that? And so it's looking through all of that. And then in the end, and we're not, I don't believe we're quite there yet. It's a clenched point. Recommendations on we should be using these technologies. We should be having it be 24 hours is fine or it should be a week or, you know, or it should be no overnight or whatever that happens to be. And is the monitoring for enforcement of those policies? Definitely. So enforcement and then just who's using it? We have a hundred people, is there a hundred people that use it? You know, 90% of the time. And the rest of them are trained like just how often is this being used and and by whom is the other thing it's trying to figure? Oh, I just had a question that I don't know if you know, but I wondered why there are so many short states that are just like an hour or so. So they wondered that too, and it's something that I hope I would love to get a little bit more clarity on to the Zero to 30 minutes makes a lot of sense to me because that's you know I do that one all the time I meet a friend there and they and they pop into the car and then we drive right back out 30 minutes to an hour had a lot of stays and the consultant and and the staff we don't really have an answer for what those ones are yet But yeah yeah, it would be interesting, I agree to know more. And that's the kind of thing that having constant monitoring might let us know. And will they be sending an updated agenda? That's what I understand. Great. The last thing I just added to the management plan is, I think it's in there, but I can't recall it is this is all really in an effort to make sure we stay in compliance with our lease with the state and that's the underlying premise of this whole thing is it's not our property. We've got some requirements we've got to continue to meet and this is kind of that make sure that long term vision meets those requirements. Okay. Any other questions for Sam? Well Sam we hope not to see you on Thursday. Okay well you'll see me again for the next item. But for this specific item we hope to not see you. We hope you are somewhere with your new family. Okay is everyone okay to move on to the transit center updates? Yep. All right. It's wonderful. Take it away. Sam, clan, two of us taking it all. I'll start talking and hand it off to you guys quickly, but you all asked for an update for how we're planned to proceed forward on March. In early March, we gave you the schedule. Um, and that's just kind of how we continue to plan and move the project forward. Obviously, since March, there's been some things happen, the mall's gone under contract. We think it's now not under contract, the view line sold. We've started a couple of programs, we ended whatever. But we intended to kind of stick to the program or the timeline we've got in here and are ready to answer any questions But this is what we brought to you as in March Zoom do is still Workable moving forward, you know a lot of that discussion back then was the timing of the next grant rounds and those types of issues and You know there's best guests, but there's nothing right away. That's gonna be available to us So this is what we presented in March and we're happy to talk about it more. Well, thank you for putting this together. Thank you for just sort of loosely jotting out timeline. I know Tom, you had asked for it to go on the agenda. So if you have specific questions, I'll let you start and then we'll go from there. I, I, big picture and I don't think there's a agreement on this, but big picture. I would like to see us, you know, get input from our community, get input from the people on the mall finish the design get through the planning commission approval the town council approval as as quickly as we can in a reasonable fashion and then we're ready and we're looking for funding nobody knows what the funding world is. You know, he could change in six months. Nobody knows. We know it's not very good right now. Which is slightly different than the way this is written, which sort of, let's spend, you know, spring summer fall of this year, you know, just sort of talking to people and then the summer and then you know And then start this summer for a year This area planning project which I want to come back to. And then to go into special review in the fall of 2026 and then you say construct full construction documents, which I think could wait until after we started to look for funding. funding. So you know, then there's, you know, I don't know why we can't start looking for funding once we've got approvals because that was, we heard that last time that they didn't want to take our word for it again, they want to have approvals. But do we have to have full construction documents to get for now? Right? So I'd like to run those things parallel. You know, I think at the earliest, if there was funding out there, we could start construction in the spring of 2027. Instead of, you know, you guys are talking, you know, like three years after that. So I think we could do it sooner. I think my hope is that we do what we can do and get it ready and then we hope there's some fun enough there One of my concerns is that there's a huge amount of knowledge that's gone into this project the consultants found and My experience I've had this happen lots of time in my professional life The project goes on hold turns up four up four years later. Everybody's gone. People reassigned, people run different jobs. All that knowledge is lost. And I like to keep the knowledge, all the engineers have, all the consultants we've had. We've got some momentum with the village, with the community. I would like to keep that going. So I would probably that we spend from now into late fall, you know, I know we need to learn from what's going on with the view line. And if there's going to be a change of ownership on the mall, we need to know all that. But I would hope, as soon as we could have that together, that we then can start and get the design finished. Because going back to another conversation, if we want to pursue some interim solutions up on the mall with improved toilets or toilets in the first place, Yes, I'll play it. You need, and we don't want to build something that's going to get torn out later. So right now, the way the design is, you cannot do that because the whole other area under where a new toilet is going to be a construction area on the lower level in the current design. So some thought has to go into all that, looking at the design of the final so that we can be smart about an interim so we can do it in a way that we don't have to tear it out later. So I mean, there's reason to keep this ball moving in terms of design. I think there's a good commonality about the general design. I mean, there's details. Certainly, discussions with the Raptor could be happening now on an operational point of view, and turning races, and all that stuff. And I just get a sense that nothing's been happening. That's why I want to bring it up. So I think we could go a little quicker. I jotted some things now and should be glad to send through. That's one and the other is can I mean this area planning project. I think I know did you suggest that during the planning process Clint? I mean I don't know where that came up. But what is the intent of that? What's the idea of that? And in the memo, it's talking about hiring a consultant. And I don't know what the intent and where all that's going to go. I mean, that one, you guys adopted that. So we adopted it, but it was, yeah, it's not like a great idea. Let's put it in, but then we really put any hair on it. So what do you think it is? I let them go. No, I mean, when I went back and looked at my notes, I mean, it was one of the things that we really harped on was this idea that we don't, we want a better sense of what's going on in the village, with a master calendar of all of the projects to begin with, but then specifically looking at the mall in the surrounding area. And. you know, with a master calendar of all of the projects to begin with. But then specifically looking at the mall and the surrounding area and what, you know, the different, a lot of different, he's own the mall. So really understanding sort of where everyone's going and what their intent is, but also looking to the mall like things like chain stores and other things that, you know, helping the business owners, whatever it is that we need to do within that area plan to keep it vibrant. I mean, this also includes the skittles and things like that. I mean, it's all that whole area. So this was something that we adopted in our council goal plan. And I think in my mind, when I think about it, those are the conversations you want to have before you start going down the road of planning something. I mean, if the mall should sell that large chunk of it and the person that buys it says, no, we're not interested in that plan that Dwayne drew up, and we absolutely don't want any part of that. So that would be a kink into what we want to do. I mean, we need buy-in. So in my perspective, that area plan, and there might be more to it, but that was looking back on my notes, some of the things that we had talked about as to why we wanted to do that. Yeah, but I understand. I mean, there's a big difference between scheduling construction projects and a proactive looking forward what the mall should be. Right. And that's- And that's- Players that have aren't obligated to buy into it, right? I mean, it's- They're obligated to buy into it, but I think understanding, I mean, you know, we have no idea what's happening right now with the view line in the wildwood and the conference center, but my guess is we're probably going to see a development applications on time within this next year. And that would be good to know because if a big project is about to happen there, it may affect or maybe not what we want to do. And they may have something to offer up that could change the whole layout of this transit center. And they may also something to offer up that could change the whole layout of this transit center. And also at that point, be very interested in partnering financially if that's what would be important. Which would be wonderful, but I just can't. And we have no, they're not obligated to participate. I'll be volunteering. They're not obligated to participate, but for anyone in the mall and that's running area, that transit area, that entrance is the front door to their operation. So if you're the ski company, if you're the hotel, I mean, you're interested. You want to make it as seamless for your guests as it could be. Totally great.. I mean, I would just say part of the issue with this when we kind of tabled it for a bit is financial. I mean, we don't have the means to cover even, you know, I don't think up to what we were going to get from the feds before. So. No, we have enough to pay for design. I'm not suggesting we do anything beyond design. Well, and even construction documents. So I just, I, I agree that there are some interim things that I feel like are important. And so I think that if we can. Plan those with the idea towards the the plan that the transit center plan that we've looked at right now. I would be in favor of that but I also feel like. Um there are still some things like this this area planning project and input from the community. And getting interested financial partners that we can do before we even get a final design honestly. So I agree. I just like to get started on that stuff and saying it's somewhere in the future. And that's that on the calendar. I think is is okay to work towards, but I'm not really in favor of going all in as far as I'm not suggesting going all in for at least a year. I mean, if we look at that started. Well, and if you look at the timing of the area planning project, I mean, you have summer of 25, which is now, to summer of 26, which I think that can be going. And I feel like, I mean, I did talk to Sessley. She apologized for not being able to get on virtually, but I think she indicated that she feels like, yes, like Susan just said, there are safety improvements that could be done, that could be helpful, that could feed into the larger project that we should consider, but also would be willing to consider design starting, you know, talking about design, starting November or, you know, late fall early winter. I mean, there's been a lot of, there's a lot of projects that don't have anything to do with this that have just also consumed a lot of our time and are going to like the draw side and all these other things. And I think that everyone was, you know, we went really fast, really hard to try to make that March deadline. And, you know, we decided not to go for it. And I think now we can slow it down, but it doesn't mean we should stop it. I don't think anyone's saying to stop it. It's just all our ideas, maybe a little different as to timing. So it's, I don't ride the bus or the shuttle because we're a lip, okay? This is not for me. My sense from staff was that the transit, this new transit hub was essential. And on the original scheme, oh, this had to be done, it had to be done, it had to be done. If the community doesn't really want it or need it or is not in a rush to get it, that really bothered me. So. Well, I don't know that we know whether the community. That's why I'd like to get out and talk to them, but there's nothing on the calendar to do anything. And I would, you know, I feel like when I looked at this timeline, I was shocked at how drawn out it felt after the first two years that I feel like I sat in the seat feeling that pressure to get this project going not because we were trying to meet the budget of that line but for that same reason that it had this priority in the projects that we needed to get going. And while I can appreciate some of this, I wonder if there isn't a way to overlap some of it a bit too. I'm not sure we have to wait for public feedback while we're working on an area planning project. Could those things not be done simultaneously? I mean, I don't want to put this ahead of other projects necessarily, but I agree that it feels like we worked really hard on it. And now we've gotten somewhere that we have something that the public can give us feedback on. And to lose that, it's not even momentum. It's just going to be lost as a priority pretty soon. And I think the public has opinions now that they may slowly change that may shift out of their forefront of their mind. And I don't know. It just feels like if we don't keep talking about it, and the area planning project makes sense to do too, whether or not we know what's going to happen with them all, because we can't really project the changeovers. I think at the council, we need to get an idea of what can we control? What do we want to control? What are the ideas that meet matter to our community without putting all the what ifs and who are the players going to be in there too? I think we can do some of that planning without with some unknowns and variables in there. I agree and remember in a little marrow. What's going to do this thing on the wall renovate theate the mall, that did not affect the design of the transit center. That just was another bonus we're going to get renovated mall if you could get that site. But without that, the new owner of the mall doesn't do a darn thing. Doesn't affect the need and the design of a transissaric binds, raft and shuttle. It's pretty straightforward. Well, it affected. It changes my Strong desire to do that because housing was part of the Agree that changed, you know, it gave it a little more Well for the five years we're doing the initial scheme the one level. There was never any housing involved. And it was a huge priority for the town. So I'm just trying to figure out where all the pieces fall because I mean, I'm just trying it. It seems logical. We first should go out and really start running some meetings with the community, seeing what if it's a priority or not, we should talk to the ski company who's the biggest stakeholder in this. I mean, the transit center, the biggest ridership, the transit people will come in to go ski. Raffta, you know, I don't know, I mean, I don't see anything happening. Don't, I've said my say. Okay, well, I think that no one is saying not to do anything at all, think that most people are probably fine, like starting to think about things like late fall early winter, which I feel like that is amenable to you, yes? Sure. Yeah. So I guess the question is that if it got put off for this timeline and I think part of the reason for this timeline clearly has to do with funding and when it could be available, which is why it's so spread out. But if you're looking at the timeline and you're thinking, oh my gosh, like you wouldn't even have something till 2030, like are there things that can be done? And I know we've looked at incremental without calling it the incremental because a lot of people don't like that terminology and what that means. But figuring out there are some important really, I think, really important safety considerations and other things that we could fix in the meantime that could make it safer and just more comfortable for the people that are using the bus system. With the idea that those hopefully will be folding into the larger plan. So I don't know what that looks like in terms of timing. And I know we had set possibly for this spring. And then we didn't do it because we voted the incremental. Yeah, that's question number one is it you guys have to tell us which we do want to go. And we're going to get public input towards that. I could feed into the. And how does that work if we don't know the construct like how does that work if we're not certain that we know the construction plan is going to work. I mean, I just I guess I don't really understand how we can do one without the other. Can we work on the incremental with what we have the information we have now to understand that the why two three is more putty feed in design. Yeah, we have three million for designers. So if we got some of that design going, then we would have an understanding of where the incremental improvements could be fit into this project? That's probably quite the same. Part of what I don't understand. I'm not even sure to start, but yes, we can do that. I mean, it's been our recommendation for since 2022 that we designed an incremental to meet the long-term plan. And so we still think that's probably the best way. That was our recommendation a year and a half ago. And so if that's something you want to do, yeah, we can do that for sure. But again, I'm not sure where you all want to go. If you want to, I mean, we're open, you guys have to tell me what you want to do. But in March, we kind of said, hey, let's go out and talk. Let's give us, and by the way, we don't have any federal money for four years. And so a lot of this was based on, don't get your hopes up. And I know get ready, get ready, I get that. But it's 18 months before that's what we're expecting. the earliest that any kind of money is even going to start to even reappear or not even reappear, but on the horizon. Wait, so just explain, I'm a little lost about the four years and the 18 months. I'm sorry, we don't think there's going to be the as soon as any grant funds would show up would be in four years. And so if we start that planning process in 18 months or start our through our planning process, then we would be ready to go by the the time grants become available We would have a project that we can say to your point is is approved But I mean the four years starts 2024 so the 2028 right 2024 2028 28. Yeah, we're guessing. Yeah, but yes, right? Okay, no selection so but and I mean in I, as far as the pressure, I don't sure where the pressure is. I mean, I'll speak for myself. But what I learned to that last through the 2022 process is there was no public, there was no demand. I mean, the most we ever got was sure what the hell? We had 30 million out of 35 million lined up ready to go and no one was in here saying get it on. And so any pressure that you felt was not from this table. I mean, you guys, I mean, we're ready to do it. We agree with it. We believe in it. We're ready. We're jumping on it. But I don't, the pressure, I hope you didn't feel it from us. So that's, that would, you get to describe that. But the, I mean, again, the, what we presented you in March, we still think as viable, we still think it makes sense. But you guys have to kind of look left and right and tell me what That would you get to describe that but the I mean again the what we presented you in March we still think is viable we still think it makes sense. But you guys have to kind of look left and right and tell me what you want to do and you want something sped up. We can we can do our best but I would kind of ask to what end because we don't think there's money for a number of years. I mean, is part of the area planning project what it be to reach out to the community to see what their thoughts are on the mall and the surrounding area and the transit? Yeah, I mean, you guys run as many meetings as those, I mean, yes, I think that's the vision is like, what's the big? So it is overlapping, then. Yeah, for sure. Seriously. I think it is. Yeah, I agree, it's the view line, it's the skittles, it's the mall changes, if this changes, if that property between the in and the polka loady change, I mean, all that kind of stuff, like, what's what should we be thinking about? What do we want to happen then? And then this would be a factor in that. And again, it's if it's mean if incremental is the direction we could start saying that we we know and I know Alex has told us, he understands the design as you guys, whether it's the parking garages or not, and all that kind of stuff. He understands the two-level structure enough to say, here's what an incremental solution would look like. So that's, I think that sounds... I mean, you said that in meetings, but again, I mean, I think the concern from some council members was, hey, if we do the incremental, then that's going to be enough and it's going to, it's going to get in the way of some kind of future project. And again, that's, again, you guys just have to say, what is it that you're all looking for and we can do it? We've had this in place for a couple of months and we haven't touched it for a couple of months. You're right, but we've got some other things cranking and we haven't touched it for a couple of months. You're right, but we've got some other things cranking and we're still on time to get the suit fall. Well, I would just hope that the semantics of calling it incremental don't get us confused because when I look at what you just brought up as the getting something accomplished and that has the end goal of the split level transit center. That feels different than the incremental, incremental possibilities that we were presented previously. So I so like, please, not just cement, but are being triggered that. That's true. Well, that's why I said, I made a kind of calling it incremental. I did understand that we have a construction plan and that these improvements will feed into that. Then that is a very different scenario than looking at doing some improvements that we would later have to rip out to make the bigger project happen, to put the community through the hassle of construction up there and a major hub site, I think, you know, the Persian tension built better. Keep that in mind. If we just build some bathrooms, that's no impact. But if we do the idea where they raise the level of in the interim solution for the raffta, it's going to shut down the raffta station for a summer. So it's now without inconvenience to the public to do the interim. Yeah, I don't think the Raptor gets raised. It's the Maul in front of the ink line that it's raised in meat Rafta. Because I know. No, no, but I thought the Rafta got raised too, right?, it's it's at the current level of the raft it is wrapped in Raptor deep positions raise some all it's the staircase to be impacted for sure Yeah, they'd have to build a retaining wall So there's yeah some one of the lanes would probably be closed for a period of time Yeah, I mean at the time I mean why don't we have once there's a four-month impact for sure Why don't we bring that and let's look at that and understand it better. So if we were to move forward on that like phase one, when would we have to have everything dial in if we wanted to do it for like next spring or summer? And they've done a lot of the work. Yeah. For I'm I'm confident senior. If you guys go, we could do it next spring. What kind of approvals are required? It's a great question. It's a special review, right? You know, it's a, it's, I mean, it's a staircase and flattening in a bathroom. So, I mean, that, sure, I'd say, I'm guessing I don't know. I mean, it's, you're building a bathroom, so it's gonna be over, I would guess best review. But I'd have to double check with planning. I just, having seen the plans and both plans of the interim in the final, I don't believe that you can build the bathrooms in the, you know, and all that stuff, and and not have to tear out later. Because I think it sits over where Alex is showing stuff on the lower level. Let's see if we can. Huh? Let's see if we can. Yeah, yeah. I mean, let's, you know, let's see it. Just bring it in. So are we going to do the input part or like the, I mean, this, what we've got planned is kind of community input and discussion for the next summer and fall. I mean, I think regardless of that, like, I mean, regardless of anything we're doing in this phase one, the incremental, you know, whatever you're going to call it. the input that we want, I think, is still for a greater purpose. I mean, it's still a, you know, but this, we've had a lot of safety concerns and other concerns that I think this would help convenience concern. I mean, I would suggest that we blow the dust off the interim solution and look at it. And then let's have some convenience shown, the interim shown, the current design for the final and let's just get input, you know, and You know, let's just get any put we have any community input to any of this. Yeah, it just feels like fall of 2026 to really get that public feedback. It's a long way away. So I would love to start. Does the area planning project process include input from... Well, that's what I asked before. And I think it does. And I think that plan saying it can all be part of it. It is part of I don't understand the area planning is part of is understanding what the community wants. Right. I think that would be really handy to have both of those conversations. I'm starting. Are planning for the planning. And so that's according to the same timeline, it seems like we're in agreement. Yeah, because I think doesn't it have on there? Does it like starting to talk about design next fall winter? Wasn't that what it was? We went six. Six. Let's get it here. You're on this community plan, man. That's... Earth, we... We... Complete Northern Design. No, we can't do this. December, 2026. Would be the end of that. Utilizing feedback received complete further design. Our goal was to have bring back have discussions about the full the full scope of the project versus the interim scope by the fall this year. And then you guys I mean you guys are still to decide are you doing a $50 million project for the $40 million project? You got to decide what the full scope is or the call to $3 million project, which is bathrooms and stairs, you know, roughly. And so then that's, that's what this, what we've got before you were presented in March is like, all right, which way do you want to go? And then you guys can hopefully make a decision by fallish. Hey, let's do this with whatever modifications or tweaks or whatever. And then, you know, if you guys can hopefully make a decision by follow is hey, let's do this and with whatever modifications or tweaks or whatever. And then, you know, if you guys feel comfortable with if you tonight's kind of direction, hints, holds, then you could say, all right, knowing that we're going to do, you know, this first step bathroom staircase flattening, how about inform the rest of the area planning kind of thing? There's, I mean, there's, it's not like you have to hold everything back. We can do incremental steps and that's kind of what we're, well, that's what we're planning to do back in March. But that's again, up to you guys to tell us what you're, what you're hoping for. And I feel like that area planning project is a really good opportunity to talk with partners who might be financial partners and to actually look at the whole thing with a vision to the whole thing rather than just you know one piece here and then wait till somebody comes to us with some other idea. I mean I'd hope to have kind of almost a round table discussion with the stakeholders and this plan and and have very open dialogue. Yeah. I mean clearly some things have changed with ownership being in in different spaces up there but I still think it's valuable. Right. I have those conversations and obviously open it to the public for comment at that time too. That will help us inform the area planning project as well. So let's just get a little specific. So we say summer of 2025 we're going to start this area planning project. Well, summer starts officially a month from now. What are we going to do? I mean, we're going to hire a consultant. What do I mean, Who's driving this? Who's organizing this? And some words on a piece of paper? What do you think we should be doing, Clint? If you're doing just the raft to stop, we could bring that back to you without a whole lot of time. Because that's been done largely. You guys could look at that and we could compare the full versus the interim. You guys can make that. That's what's that's it's contemplated. For the area plan, yeah, I would be the idea was at least in my mind when you guys adopted that goal was yeah, we bring on a consultant and we we actually do a full area plan and just like most communities do and it's the stakeholder process, that's the input process, that's what's changing here, what are opportunities, it's all that stuff. I mean, that would be a big undertaking. And so, we're going to do it. Let's figure out how we're going to do it. You guys just adopted the goal like 30 days ago. Yes, I promised. We're on it. So how long would it take to get finding control and get a consultant on board? Months. I don't know. I mean, if you think it a planning consultant, kind of a consultant, you think you're planning a consultant. I mean, it's a land use project. Yeah. I don't, I mean, literally I have not thought about that one yet, but it would be take two weeks to write an RFP, you know, and get it, get it right a month to have it out there for bed. Take two weeks for us to select another two weeks for contract. Late July would be the fastest possible. That's possible. Probably, you know, probably more like it. So we don't get it harder. It's going drift, probably, you know, probably more like. So we don't get it harder. It's going drift off till, you know, yeah. Christmas. So it's, let's get serious about it. Well, yeah, I mean, again, this is something you guys just adopted. And if it's, if it's the area plan, I can, we can get going on it. And if it's the scope of the project or the transit project, we can do that quicker. I don't know. I'm just trying to read or both. Tell me. Well, I think it's a both. I mean, I think for a lot of people to understand part of moving forward with any transit project, I mean, not the smaller improvements, but the bigger project is understanding the community and how they feel in the entire area that it encompasses. So it's kind of a both. I mean, if we put this out and we get a consultant on board by the end of summer, but then also by this fall, be looking at the two plans and just figuring out like, can the phase one, fit into the rest of it. And if people feel comfortable then hopefully we can do some of those improvements the following spring and make it feel safer and more comfortable for these. I would suggest if we want to do the interim next spring we should probably accelerate thinking about just that and not roll it up in the area plan because it just the time it takes to get things approved, get things strong, get things bought. We really are, we got to get moving like now on that. Again, that's what kind of my question to you guys is if they're going to be supposed to gather, I agree with you. It's going to slow down that interim improvement. If it's like, no, we're ready to consider the transit as a stand alone, then that's what you'd suggest. I would suggest this. I think we should look at the interim solutions solution, whatever. And if we agree to move forward with that, get that sort of moving along as the area plan happens, we get community input that may impact it slightly, but I wouldn't wait for that because it will be another year. So let's get that going and then let's not commit going into construction until we've got input you know from the community and everything but I think we need a head start just because we sort of know what it is. Let's get back here and so it works. Okay so we I was just, we get, get that back as soon as we can. We've got an agenda as soon as we can. And then, and the public input part before it comes back or no, let's, let's bring back, present to us the interim solutions and let's understand that we, what it means to do it, all that stuff and how it fits into the final and then if we're sort of agreement and let's get that sort of moving with the consultants while we get the community input we can show some to community you know recognize the community and I say well we don't want that and in which case we'll put the breaks on it, but I think we can show some to community, you know, recognize the community may say, well, we don't want that. And in which case, we'll put the brakes on it. But I think we can't wait to know that if we really want to start in the spring. I think the NRMS is important to get going on. Yeah. So let's not as let's get started on it. You can work on that. Claire's bad. You don't make anything else going on. All right, is that clear enough, Clint? Yeah, so we're going to, I'm going to just say use the word separate that the area plan is going to be different than the interim plan. The interim plan is going to move forward at a quicker pace, because it's largely done. But we will be influenced by the area planning and community impact and input. And we may change course on that if we get strong opposition to the community in real life. The interim plan is going to be done way before the area plan. I understand. I think the influence is going to be other ways. But either way, we'll get that going. We'll bring it back to you guys for feedback and input. You'll likely say this looks good or not. Tweak this, tweak that. We'll put it back out for some more community input, broader community input. We'll get that. And then you guys can make some decisions moving forward. And then in the same time. The same time, let's start moving forward. plan. And what does that look like? And the first just once just before you get started and do any work with consultants, just bring them back to us, show to us again, show us where it stands right now, and we understand the cost and the timing before we, I mean, don't go to the consultants, come back in three months, say we've cleaned it up. Let's see it for you. What you mean that? Which thing? Interim. The interim plans. Just bring it back for fresh memories. The same ones. Yeah, and let's talk about if we went with those, what are the costs, what's the impact and timing on the community. Let's just understand that upfront. And then all agree that we understand all that and and and get going with the consultant. Okay. I think that's important. And I also just with the area planning project, I think I'd like to understand a little bit more of what we're trying to accomplish before we hire the consultant and have them kind of starting in on that. And a big weighted units do a draft of an R.P. and that'll help. Yeah, that would be a form of late discussion. Because there might be ideas that we want to include or maybe it's getting a little too big scope and we want to bring it back in. Yeah. I don't know. I'd like to see that before we get too far along in that process too. I wasn't planning on starting that for months. So yes, do you have to rebut them and go in too fast? OK. All right. Any other feedback on that? Okay. Thank you, Sam. Thank you. All right. Well, that is it. I can't believe it. We made it within our two hour lot.. Wow, it's amazing. I guess. Let me say something about there is a watershed summit on Thursday. If anybody's interested, it's sponsored by our alapah. And it's about how climate change affecting our water, affecting our recreation in our watershed. These are pretty interesting that we do over there. It's gonna be in Glenwood Springs at Moreg, Commons, and from eight until three, obviously we have leave a little bit early to get back here for the EOTC meeting. But if anybody's interested, I'll send you information on it. And everyone will be at EOTC, right? Yeah. Okay. All right, I'll send what I have to all of you. Thank you. I need to be interested more of us show. Actually, you need to register today. So I will email it to you right now. I can't be there because I have something else. I've got other appointments, unfortunately. Yeah. So you may be okay. There's just cheer be it. So you two are not in. I can't. Are you a maybe or? Yeah, I'm a baby. Son of a. Okay, particularly. What is, can you look up? Who is the alternate? I don't need an all right now. I couldn't remember who it was. I can't. No, I can't. Okay, I understand. Okay. Okay. We are going to adjourn the meeting. Thank you guys.