This meeting is live streamed and it is being recorded. It can be viewed on the city's website at AberdeenMD.gov. We do request that everyone silence their phones. So the first item of business this evening is the approval of the meeting minutes from October 9th, 2024. I'm assuming that everyone's read the minutes. Are there any corrections or questions regarding the minutes as they were presented? Anything? Mark, Dante. Okay. So if there are no changes or corrections to the minutes, do I have a motion to approve the minutes? So moved. I have a second. Second. Everyone in favor of proving the minutes? Say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Okay, the minutes are passed as written. First agenda item is the review of the preliminary site plan and consolidation for Aberdeen Exchange, lots two and three. I think from the minutes last time there was a change to the process. Since I wasn't here, somebody might have to bring me up to date. Are we taking public comment at each item, but before we discuss it? Is that what the executive was? Planning commission members wanted. Okay, still at three minutes. Yes. And it has to be about the topic. Okay. So is there anyone in the public that wants to step up and make a comment regarding the preliminary site plan? No one? Okay. Well then we will move on to who's here representing the project. We're going to be doing a good job. That's a good job. We're going to be doing a good job. We're going to be doing a good job. We're going to be doing a good job. We're going to be doing a good job. We're going to be doing a good job. We're going to be doing a good job. We're going to be doing a good job. We're going to be doing a good job. We're going to be doing a good job. light plan and consolidation plan of 10 and 12 Newton road. The property is currently zone B3, highway commercial district, and it's located between the previously approved Aberdeen Exchange, which is on lot 1, and the Hilton Homes 2 suites. Currently both lots are vacant and padded out for development. We're proposing the consolidation of lot 1, I mean lot 2 and lot 3 into 1 lot for the proposed infill development of a 23,000 square foot building. 13,000 square feet will be used for our client's construction service and supplies business and the remaining 10,000 square feet will be divided between four office spaces that will be leased out. The client is Mr. Cling. They are a power wash company. There are 56 required parking spaces. We've provided 72 parking spaces on the site. There are no buffers required on the property. The proposed development will have access to Aberdeen water and sewer located in Newton Road. The property is not within the floodplain and it's not within the critical area. A forced stand-alignation and forced conservation plan were approved in March of 2011 for the creation of lot one, two and three and therefore is grandfathered under the forced conservation. Stormwater quantity and quality will be provided and met by an existing regional facility that is part of the entire Aberdeen Exchange development. The facility was designed to account for the future development of lot 2 and 3 and we think that the project should be grandfathered under these existing approved stormwater management plans because they have capability to accommodate the future development. Lot 2 and Lot 3 are anticipated to require two equivalent dwelling units for water usage and a traffic impact study was submitted and it was determined that there would be no real impacts to the intersection at Old Philadelphia Road and Newton Road with the new trips generated. We also submitted a landscape plan. I have a house. That's it. Phyllis. Thank you. So I did review the subdivision plan and the landscape plan as well. I provided comments to them, which they will be addressing after roll and the planning commission makes their comments as well. So under the subdivision plan, I ask them to change the proposed side of the building to 23,000 square feet, including the mezzanine. And that's in that footprint area of the building. Change the note to a lot line to be removed and lots consolidated with a separate subdivision plat. Add the width of the ingress and egress. Remove the name of Estelle Street to avoid confusion since home two suites is addressed off of Newton Road. Add a note about the dumpster to be enclosed. Where is the location that proposed 5,000 square foot addition is noted on the plan? Correct the tax map, number 209, instead of 207, change the title of plan to preliminary site and consolidation plan. And under the Water Usage Note, remove the reference to the traffic impact study and include this information on the development data. And add the standard notes of reference and our checklist for plans. This site is also located in the second election district. So those are my comments. Okay. I'm sorry, I went over them so quickly. If if you need me to I will send those out to you tomorrow Okay, I did receive comments back from department emergency services Justin Manion which I believe I did forward to Tom Minor with Frederick Warden Associates And he just added the addresses for each one of the new tenants So I don't know that I have to repeat that. I received comments back from the Hartford County Health Department. And it's regarding the final plat when they do submit a consolidation plat. The final plat must bear the standard owner statement and master plan conformant statement. Condition of approval no building permit shall be issued for any lot. formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative formative form the State Highway Administration because they did review the site plan and the traffic impact study. Thank you for the opportunity to review these. Based on the information provided on the preliminary site plan, the project for State Highway Administration has no objection to plan approval. So that was for the traffic impact study and the preliminary site plan. Okay, roll anything from your group? So I know it's not, you know, this is a site plan. I just wanna make a comment that the water meter will be, I mean, I guess it'll be at the edge of the lot since you're not inside the building. So there's going to be one water meter and one water line that services the entire building. Okay. So the other comment I wanted to make about the two E to use, we did have a meeting, we discussed that it was originally, there was a previous site plan that was approved. I'm not exactly sure how many. I thought it might be more than two. I'm not exactly sure how many. I thought it might be more than two. I'm not sure. So I just want to leave that number open, especially because I see one of your proposed tenants as a power washing. I can't imagine that, if it's just construction office, sure, for 20,000 square feet. But anyway, I'll just leave that open. I'm not the one that's telling, you're telling me how much water you think. And if you tell me it's too eduous, then give me some more justification on exactly how you're basing on. Because we do have guidance when a tenant moves in, we have a guidance. And so use something like that to back up your two EDUs. And just like I said looking at it, I'm a little bit skeptical that it might only be two for such a large building with six five tenants. In my mind I'm thinking, oh, that might be more like fiveED use, you know, depending on use. And then my last comment is about the grandfathering of the storm water permit. That permit is from 2007. Standards have changed, so I would at least want a submission for storm water doing the evaluation for current 2010 storm water standards to make sure that you're still meeting that because the original design was based on 2000 design standards. Okay, okay, did you do that? Okay, so comments from the commission, William, anything? No, this time. Okay, Beth? Couple quick questions. In the traffic study, it listed that the developer proposed to construct a 20,000 square foot commercial building as well as a potential future 6,000 square foot building. Where on the site would this 6,000 or listed on the plan, it's actually 5,000? So the traffic study, that was the original intent for the plan was to have a 20,000 square foot building with a 6,000 square foot possible addition. We designed the site so that it could accommodate that, but in the process of site planning, we can accommodate extra 6,000 square feet, so it's only 5,000 square feet. But that's future possible use at this point they're not looking to build that. Okay but where where where would it go? There is some open space down for this end of the building. Okay and 5,000 square feet can fit there within the setbacks of the lot. All right all right So be attached to the existing building. Exactly. It wouldn't be a free standing. Exactly. OK. They wanted to have maximum flexibility at this point in the process. So we designed to make sure that there would be enough parking spaces to accommodate that. But at this point, the plan is only due to the 23,000 square feet. OK. And it also said in the traffic study that the intended tenants are especially trade contractors, which include plumbing, heating, cooling, machine repair, electrical, mechanical repair, industrial supply, roofing, locksmith, weed and pest control and cleaning. Is that still the... As far as I know, that's still the plan. Okay. There are definitely offices. That's how the plan is for office tenants. And then construction services as the main tenant. Okay. Then on in general notes on, let's say number 10. The set is not within Aberdeen wellhead protection zone. It does lie within Harvard County wellhead protection zone 3. You are in wellhead protection zone 3 for Aberdeen on the map that was adopted in 2022. Okay. Which will impact the use of the tenants on what's approved in that area. Because the map is very, if you pull it up, it is... There's three for on zone one, zone two, and zone three. And everything that's outside of zone one and two, which requires commissionally uses the zone three. Right. And it's the corner of Newt Laneism, but the pad side is in area three. Okay. So depending on the tenants, it's going to be the contract to address whether or not they are permitted to use or not. Right. A nation. So if that can be corrected. Absolutely. And those were the only comments I had. Derek? No comments at this time. I mean, pretty much answered everything I had. Mark? A couple of things. Who owns a newt road in the stone street? Who owns this? Do we know? The developer IDGAG owns the majority part of it. There are sections of it that are actually still owned by the individual houses that are across the street because of the way the lines are drawn, but the majority of is, it's basically cut up amongst all of the adjacent lots. So the homeowners back there, they own like Newton Road? Sections of them, maybe a rectangle here and there. Okay, and then how about a Stel Street? Who would own that? Which one? A stealth street that runs north and south. Run on the west side of the road. Oh, the stealth street is now the hotel. Okay, okay, so that's owned by the hotel. Yes. Okay. And maintained. Okay, I remember, I just, I had friends that lived back there, it was kind of a, kind of a forgotten area. A little, there was a lived back there. It was kind of a forgotten area. A little, those homes back there. The other question I have, and if I can dig a little deeper in what Roller had said earlier on the EDU's, the power washing company, let me preface my comments by saying I'm no expert on power washing, but a lot of these power washing companies will fill up tanks on their trucks as a buffer. So when they hook up to a residential area to the power, I don't even know this from experience, just recently. When they hook up to a residential faucet, if that faucet can't provide enough water, then they have backup water. So I hear what you're saying. I think they're gonna be using more only to fill up tanks as they go out each day on their job. They're not just using customer water. I'm saying they're taking water from their property, filling up their 500 gallon tanks or whatever they have on their back of the truck. So I think we need to look a little bit closer from their property, filling up their 500 gallon tanks or whatever they have in fact that are troubling. So I think we need to look a little bit closer on the EDU, so I agree with you wrong. That's all I have other than I would hope maybe this project would spur more interest in the project that's there now that we only have one tenant. When I was in there today, there's someone working on the somebody else has taken over the rest of the building. So there is a educational facility that's going to be going in there. We'll just issue the permit. Cool. Awesome. Good. Okay. Good. It's great news. Okay. That's good news. That's good news. That's good news. That's that, Drake. Figure for a long time. And it's a nice, it's a nice project. That's it. Thank you. Stay on, Ted. Yeah, so on the planet states that for the power washing company, some of this is going to be used for storage. Just from personal experience, I have a friend of mine who owns a power washing company. And those trucks that equipment, everything's fairly large. So I was just wondering were items gonna be stored in here, were they gonna be taken up parking spaces? Or? The, all of the storage should be taken place inside the building, the mezzanine level, that is the additional 3000 square feet is specifically for storage. Okay. Yeah, there'll feet is specifically for storage. Okay. Yeah, there'll be storage inside the building. Okay, that's all I have. Okay. All right. I don't have any comments. Adam, do you have anything that you want to bring up? Nothing addition than what's already been brought up other than subject to the planning commission's approval. It will go through a cost benefit analysis process that the mayor is instituted and I'll be happy to talk about it. I guess if you have any questions on it, but it will go through another review before it then comes to the council. Not by the Planning Commission. It does an internal review amongst the staff on cost-benefit analysis and that will be presented to the council with the site plan. Okay. So that has nothing. We'll never have anything to do with the Planning Commission. No, it's just another point in the process with the staff. Okay. Okay. Beth, it's just another point in the process with Zeppelin. Okay. Okay. That's for you, we're going to say something. At the last meeting when we were discussing the section on the public comment, I think what we decided was that after the presentation by whoever's presenting the plans to us, we would open up the public comment then before we vote. It isn't that after each one. It was a little inconsistent in the minutes. So I guess it was Mr. Schlotman and Ms. Boyson indicated that they support having multiple comment periods with time requirements for public for three minutes each. And then Beth, you motioned and Darren's second to allow public comment for each item of discussion. Oh, after each item of discussion, okay. And before we voted. And before we voted, okay. And Kate Sots. And something came up that we didn't catch. Josh, the public may want us to think about. Okay. All right, well then we'll move that then that'll be, then we'll do that now. Right. Mark, did you want to? No, I was just going to say there was some question. According to the minutes that it was before, but the most the formal motion and it was passed that it would be after. Okay. Perfect. Just for clarification. Good. All right. So then let's do thank you. Thank you. Let's do public comment on this item. Good evening my name is Patrick McGrady 46 Paradise Road. I'm speaking to you today as a interested party in this plan and I have three minutes so I'm going to start with I support this project it's a good project it's going to be a great project for the folks on Newton Road eventually we will get the adjacent property owners to deed over to the developer of the roadway there their component of the road and then it'll be able to be deeded to the city and totality as part of the original agreement it's been a fight I've been fighting for several years trying to get over the hump to finish that project, Mr. Slotman. But for the balance of my time, planning commission, I want to express my appreciation for your commitment to the long-term planning for the city of Aberdeen. Getting through the comprehensive plan started back in 2021 and a half, 2022, concluding last summer, moving forward to the next item on your agenda regarding the development code table of uses and these kinds of things. But the City Council wants to move beyond the development code and table of uses and preliminary, excuse me, and the comprehensive plan into the future. And I'm here to ask for your consent to a future meeting of the City Council and the Planning Commission at the same time, where we will talk about potential areas of future expansion of the city. And I did not see Avenue and the agenda to discuss that except for within my three minute period of time associated with this. And I have to go coach soccer in 36 minutes and so I'm leaving now, but please it'll probably kick into the new year at this point in November, but the City Council would like to have a sit-down work session talking about potential areas of future growth associated with new areas the city plus redevelopment areas and how we can collaborate on what that looks like so that we're not stuck in the table of uses and instead we're envisioning what that potential future looks like. So thank you for all the work that you do for sacrificing your evenings, days, weekends and time looking at these plans. Thank you everybody. Have a good night. Good luck. Thank you. Michael Hyde. Been wearing a hat all day. So real briefly, you Mark and Rolla had mentioned the water issue of the EDUs. Just to say you know, or keep this in mind, I support the project and the fact is if they're using water and they're power washing, I guess what we're not sending to our wastewater treatment plant. So that's a good thing. We sell them water at the same rate and the water and sewer bills are at one time, right? It's all together. So if they're using the water, not using the sewer, we're making that well. We meeting the city. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. the . Evening. Steve for nine or five old filled up. It's nice as a nearby property owner to see something finally evolve on this. This seems to be another thing of the crack era that came through. We talk about all the other areas, but it's good to see that something utilized looks like another person come in from out of town and invest in a city and end up adding to the tax base. It looks like another person coming in from out of town and invest in a city and End up adding to the tax base. So it's a good deal. Thanks. Thank you Okay, so that's in a public comment. Do we have a motion to approve? That's it. Do you want to say something? Okay? Can make motion okay? Okay. All right. I'll say it fast. Do we have a motion to approve the plume recycling for urban exchange lots, two, and three? And I would assume, including all of the changes requested by the city departments. Do we have that motion? I make a motion. Have a second. Second. All in favor? Say A. Second. All in favor? Say aye. Aye. All right. Whichever. Anyone opposed? All right. Motion passed. Or whatever you want to say. That is that. Thank you. Okay, so the next item on the agenda is discussion on draft amendments to the code of the City of Aberdeen, Chapter 235, Development Code, Scrover. Are you presenting? Thank you. I'm going to pass out, just take one and pass it down. Should end up with Deonte. So we started this a few months ago, right? And we started with Article 1 with the definitions and we really got into that. And then those definitions were sent to the City Council through Council President Hybe. And just so you're where and I want to make sure I'll keep you posted on the progress of these. The council had introduced ordinance number 24-0-20 which is specifically for Chapter 235 the development code definitions and you don't have to write this down. I will send you copies tomorrow. These were all the definitions, plus they added a few themselves. So I'm giving you what the ordinance, I will be giving you tomorrow the ordinance. I can send it to you electronically or mail hard copies, whatever your preference or both. Just let me know. Once you get the electronic copy. That was introduced and then they had a public hearing last night on the same ordinance and the comments. There were quite a few comments but I think the major ones were to add a definition for funeral home and crematory and since the funeral home is on the table of use regulations at a definition. So what I just handed out to you that's marked draft. Okay. I added a definition for funeral establishments. So I went to Hartford County Code. They had nothing. They don't define it. And I went to have a degree., they had nothing, they don't define it. And I went to Havid Grace. Havid Grace does define it. So on page 18 of your draft, the document marked draft. I'll give you this. I define funeral establishment as an establishment with facilities for the preparation of the dead for burial, for cremation, for the viewing of the body or for funerals. Okay? If you think that that is okay, then I will send that definition via Council President Hybe and they will make it a amendment to that ordinance. And did you say that, whether or two things, you said there were. There were, okay. I just wanted you to digest the funeral home, funeral establishment first, and see if you have any questions about that. Now, Crematorium what's mentioned, that definition covers that. It says for cremation, okay, funeral establishment. Right. So, not funeral home, funeral establishment. Okay. Funeral establishment. Right. So not funeral home, funeral establishment. Okay. Perfect. Can do all of it or just part of it. Part of it. Okay. Okay. Then there was a lot of discussion about group home, private, large, small. And we had already defined that in here. And that's on page 19. And those 19 and 20. find that in here and that's on page 19. And those 19 and 20 and those definitions came from the city attorney, which are cited by law under the annotated code, health general article and the number of the article sections. So I don't really for see a reason to change those. If that's coming from Maryland law, I'll leave that up to the council president and the council members to discuss that amongst themselves. If you're comfortable with that. 3 to 9. So they go small, it is 9 to 16 and 4 to 9. So if you had 9 persons, are you small private or you're large private? If you have 9, I would think your group had a small private. But I would also assume that your license through the state of Maryland too. I'm just one because there's an overlap. They both have nine. And someone pointed out to me last night, well, you don't address one to four. Well, or one to one, two and three. You don't dress that. What about that? Yeah, that's another thing. Oh, maybe it's group home tiny. I mean, I'm the infancy. I get you know what I said. I get you. I get you. So this was Maryland State Law. Yes. Wow. Yes. Okay. And there has been a lot of discussion recently and one of the residents of Swan Meadows who is on the East Action Aberdeen Committee. I know I'm getting that wrong, but Aberdeen East Action Committee has indicated there's 20 group homes in their community and they want the city to legislate group homes out, and by law, we can't legislate them out. What do they mean by legislate out? Just don't allow them at all in any zoning district. Don't allow it all. Right, and by law, you cannot do that. Right. They are exempt from zoning laws. Everything that I've ever read about group homes indicates that they are exempt from zoning laws. Everything that I've ever read about group homes indicates that they are exempt from zoning laws. But they have to be licensed. But they do have to be licensed through the state of Maryland. So Council President Hybe and I are going to do some research in the next few weeks to see what other municipalities and counties do in Maryland to address the issue. Because we certainly don't want to have more and more and more group homes in the concentrated area of Swan Meadows. Right. And just to build off of what Phyllis was referencing is there are some jurisdictions that have placed some limitations on clustering in areas and set setbacks on each other So there are some potential tools like like she mentioned that we're gonna look at and you'll see in the other ordinance that Group homes are on the table, but they're not They're not set in a certain area. I believe in any of the table I'm just about the table because of the protected class. So it is something where there's limited interference if you want to say that the city can take to limit where they're located. But we are going to look into that and see where we can try to limit it. Just to educate myself. What building on that area is, now I'm thinking there's no place it can be large private. That's a lot of people, right? And even small private. So you've got property owners that have turned their property into group homes and they're collecting money from the state to operate the group home, but not necessarily manage it as a group home. And then you've got facilities owned and operated by key point health services that has a manager that comes and visits, you know, when needed or maybe it's daily. I've heard conflicting stories there. But key point in how services has quite a few. And then there's individual property owners that have bought homes that rent them and operate as a group home. I think the ARC actually uses rents homes for their clients as well. And how many people do they have in these homes? Typically two to four. Yeah, wow. OK. They are inspected. I didn't know about the zoning, but I do know they're inspected for fire. They don't have to be sprinkled necessarily. But for example, you can't have somebody living in a basement without like ingress and egress. So there are building code and fire code requirements and I think that's what we need to do is write that into maybe not to development code but a separate ordinance that covers protection for the residents, so that they're one not concentrated in an area, and two, that they are licensed by the state and regulated and meet all those other code requirements. We will report back to you on that. The other issue, I think there was one final issue that Ms. Boyson brought up was about solar arrays. And if you look on page 34, or solar fields, whatever you would like to call them, bar, solar farm, I did add a definition a while back for solar energy device and you had looked at this and this was sent to the council. So if you would like to change that, now would be the time to do that before they approve the ordinance. And that's in ordinance number 24-0-20, page 34 as well. What had happened was I'd gone down Calvary Road and saw the enormous 24-0-20, page 34 as well. What had happened was I'd gone down Calvary Road and saw the enormous substation of putting there. And I know, I don't know if I'll ever get a data center or any of those other kinds of uses that are high electric uses that would contemplate on a large part, soil putting a solar farm, not just something large enough to rid the building. So you see it a lot in New Jersey where you have a big plant and there's a part of their ground, they put solar panels on it for themselves. And then I guess eventually make money off of. Well, a lot of times it's private too. Farms, I have farms out, Wisher Maryland, that they rent out the farm land basically for solar. Right. Up on 543, I think there's by the ice cream, I forget the name of that. There's soldiers in this field as well. So I don't know if this is enough to cover that really you'd have a large amount of them, not just something mounted on a roof or on the ground for a single family home. Yeah, I don't know if we have any. So if you look at that last sentence for this definition, solar panels can be ground mounted or structurally mounted to the roof of a building or structure and then storage facilities is including that definition I pulled this right from the county I believe yeah so do you want to add to this definition or is this will this suffice Beth well I guess my question is are solar energy devices permitted in every single? That's a whole second question. It's a definition itself. Yes, yes. Yes. Okay, that's fine. It looks fine. That's where you got it from. Unless you want to make a separate definition for a solar farm. Could you do that. I didn't create one, does I have not found one yet? Yeah. So. Would you like to do that? I don't know there's enough land here in Aberdeen. It may not be. Yeah. I don't know. It constitutes a farm. It's a farm. Mike and I. Law course. There you go. Make that a soil. Hey, yeah, farm total Mike and I when we went to the Maryland Planning Commission Conference here ago In Queen Anne's County they on a field trip they took us to a 200 acre solar farm and They're very proud. I mean it was huge and I mean it produces many kilowatt of energy and it was privately owned at least 50 years something like that at least 20 to the power company. Where would that be on? And it was on County own land? No, privately. Private land. So at the very end of Hybe's lane, the owner of that property is getting ready to, well, I think she's already ground leased her property for solar. Yeah, and that's 200 acres I think. Yeah, the property is over 200 acres but I think the farm is much smaller portion. The solar farm is much smaller portion of it. I can tell you what a farmer of mine said one time, he has a blue store, a harvest store, Sila, which is a very sophisticated Sila system. Anyway, he has several panels on top of his, like we have on top of our water towers. And he makes about $2,000 a month on that. He says it's the best cow I have. He says that check comes in every month. So there's a lot of money being made by leasing land, water towers, buildings, for cellular or for solar. Well based on technical definitions, I think making a separate definition for solar farm is a good idea because it just says solar energy device. I'm with you. And I think a good way to look is if Queen Anne's has a big solar farm they probably have something they can hunt down for a definition of that. And Phyllis, just a generic definition of solar farm in the dictionary, it's very vague, but an installation or area of land in which a large number of solar panels are set up in order to generate electricity. I mean, it doesn't, you know. It's very... I don't mind defining it for you guys or the city, but I don't see any land in Aberdeen. That would do. That I'm aware of other than, and I wasn't being facetious, other than what was golf course. Right. Being able to support its 206 acres a solar farm right there's no point having a definition You really feel it's ever you want to have that use in Aberdeen That's the other thing to defining these things. We're gonna cover it in the table of uses so let's go there next Okay, and you should have a copy of that in front of you Ordinance number 24-0-23 was introduced last evening. And so the council separated the two documents. One is the definition, ordinance for definitions. And the other one is the ordinance for the table of use regulations. And they did not cover anything in between. So that's going gonna be our job. The table uses is an appendix. So everything between definitions and the appendix is gonna be my job and your job. To make sure they match up. Well, some way. We're gonna have amendments going all through the document. So I'm not finished, I guess, as the point of trying to tell you. We're just beginning. Yeah, good. So if you go to the table of uses, this is going to have to be an amendment to. And that is for funeral establishments. We had it listed as funeral home on page 6 of 11. But I deleted the word home to put in establishment to match the definition. So in this table of use regulations if you were to look at solar farm or solar energy devices if you look under institutional uses page 10 there's a listing for generation or generating or treating plants, pumping or regulatory stations, substations, transmission lines, utilizing multi-lake structures. Would you want to include it under institutional or have it under another use? Category. Residential, commercial. I guess I think of them more as- Do you really want that use? The Mississippi Residential. A solar farm, I guess, is the point I'm trying to make. I guess is the point I'm trying to make. I guess if I look at it, there's no possibility of a form. I guess it could be, if sometime in the future there was annexation and it happened yada yada yada yada you deal with it then. Just depends if you want to be proactive or right or not and. I don't know, it's depends if you want to also philosophy you want to limit it or not. And I don't know, it also philosophy you want to limit it or not. Or do you want to go ahead and take care of it now or come back to it when that comes up. Because it may not be room now, but if someone decides, okay, I want to buy a portion of a farm or they want to turn the farm into that, because they see the uses of it going up, then you might be right back to this. Even if it was a small definition I think it would be helpful. Just. But I think if you're gonna be a subform that's more commercial. I don't think it's gonna be, or industrial, commercial industrial, I don't know, you wouldn't put that, it depends on how you look at it. Right. Emma, sure about it. I agree with you. Am I sure I, and dust real, but commercial makes sense because that's probably how it's used. Thoughts? Mm-hmm. I agree with commercial. I think it's commercial, I would say commercial because even if you have solar for your home, you have to go through state for SRX and all that, that rig and the roll. But you become a producer rather than a consumer. And so that's still put you more on the commercial side of things. Even though it's not a big business or anything. So even if you were to expand that further, that's still commercial. Not necessarily industrial because you're not building something new, it's just that. So I would say probably commercial. I think it should be the same as the generation and the substations, because you're gonna need a substation, if it's an actual farm in order to get the electric to whoever they're selling it to. So I think it should just be the same as that. And maybe not. So you'd never allow it in B1, B2, B3. Because you'd stick it, M1 and M2. I would think there would have to be a substation very close to the I'll be honest. I'm not a solar experts. I would go on with I mean if we're As new things come about I mean it's like last night at the county council They had an ordinance about wind turbines. About what? I'm sorry. Wind turbines on structures. I don't know that we want those either. Yeah, we don't think so. We've got no wind in our line. No. Right. We've got no wind. But as electricity gets more and more expect, you know, people look. I mean, there aren't almost every house. Sure. Oh, I get you. I mean, we don't want one. So do you want an institutional or an organization? T-perch or a pound side of that? We're getting decided, yeah. I think we're still in limbo here because I don't know how. I mean, I can it going the lane towards commercial on bests and so on and I lean the other way and William says I lean the other way I'm just so uneducated about that commercial so would a farm that say if you had a bunch of cows would that be business or institutional or commercial which one would it be? Well we don't have any egg zoning. But I'm talking about it. It's an apoptedic cultural zoning. OK. But I get where you're coming from. I'm just trying to get it. You're trying to come up with an analogy of, yeah, I get you. I think it's more institutional. I do. Now you're flipping back. Well, I never said commercial. OK. I never said commercial. Okay. I agree with Bill on the, I think we need a separate definition for it. But I think it should be institutional because I do think you're going to have. Yeah, you just can't put solar panels up. There's something goes on. There's a transformer there that transforms it to a usable voltage. Right. And they transmit transmission lines and everything that's in that definition. I think that's fine because we don't have it room for it right now. But at least if someone did want to go direction, they're not limited. So I think that's fine either way. Are you good with that, is that true? Yeah, that's fine. I'm not what you think. I think more industrial than institution, If I was going to label it right now. That's the correction. And maybe if there's more, if someone proposed that they could, they could even clarify that further. But as far as giving an option rather than having none. Right. I can see a scenario where we annex property into a, into the city and that for whatever reason, interest rates are high, whatever. And that homeowner, that developer, or the homeowner, or the landowner, says, I'm going to park this property for a certain amount of time and put solar panels on it. Into the interest rates come down, building prices come down, whatever. And for 10 years, Lisa to BGE remember, and then move on from there. I can see that happen. So. All right, so we agree that we should have a definition. We should have a definition and it's under industrial. It's institutional. I'm sorry, institutional. I'm sorry. I'll be generating treatment plants, substations, transmission lines. Yes. Maybe we just, do you want to put in some, do you want to put the word energy in that, that energy generating, or energy substations, would that solve that? Are all substations, I don't know. Do we need to be that specific? Do you want to be that specific? I don't know if we have to be. I don't think so. I would like. No, just for this, because I would let someone who really want to do this, clarify some of those things, because that's they would. They were. Absolutely. But I want to leave room for it, because I think it's better to do that now than later. Okay. That's all I'm saying. Okay. So just a definition. Right. That's all I'm saying. Okay. So just a definition. Right? We're trying to be consistent, and I'm not trying to be argumentative. Yeah, I understand. But we want to make sure that the definitions for the most part are defined and listed on the table of uses, and the uses there on table of uses are defined. Remember we started that conversation? Right. So if it's generating, we're gonna, unless you wanna put something about solar specifically, I'm just gonna have a whole another line at him under social clubs. Huh? Page, if you go to the table of use ordinance, yeah. Page 10 and page 11. Uh-huh. Under institutional. Oh, social clubs, I got you. I can add solar farm right there. And I'll put, I think I heard you say M1, because we don't have any more M2 properties. Got you. Right, I'm sorry. Just M1. Right, permitted. Pum, pum, pum. Or you can make it a special exception too. Just throwing that out. I say keep it as clean as possible. Okay, permitted in M1. M1. I'll define it. Okay. So those things are going to be, let's go back. Let's recap. So solar farm define. Solar farm, I'm going to list under institutional uses in the M1 as a permitted use. Dashes in every other zoning districts, okay? The other one that we have decided to add is funeral establishments. So I deleted the word home on the table of uses You've already addressed the use in what districts you want them in and then I'm adding a definition for funeral establishments in the development of definitions. Yes. So I'll give those amendments to the council president so he can add them to the ordinances. Perfect. Okay. All right. That your job is finished with that now. All right. The document that I passed out. So I don't, I don't want to confuse you, but just keep in mind that Article 1, sorry, you've already looked at this, but I would like for you to look at it again with the exception definitions because I think we've beaten that up enough. So Article 1, and I know Will hasn't seen this yet, so this is new to Will. But I've added after definitions, starting on page 39, I picked up where I'd left off, where you had left off, Article 2, administration and enforcement. And I covered all the way down to limitations, guides and enforcement. Okay. And I covered all the way down to limitations, guides and standards. Okay. Okay. Okay. The one change that we discussed when my tribe was chairman, was it the planning commission would be the authority for reviewing, commenting and approving site plans, preliminary site plans, preliminary subdivision plans and final subdivision plans. You would no longer be recommending. And everybody was in agreement with that when we first discussed it. So I want you to consider that again. This article two hasn't been presented to the council. They haven't seen it. The only thing they've seen thus far and put in an presented to the council. They haven't seen it. The only thing they've seen thus far and put in an ordinance are the definitions. Okay. Keep that in mind. And table of use. Okay. So we don't have to discuss this tonight. It's a lot for you to read and think about. But other municipalities in Maryland, the planning commission is the last stop. Byin-D. Correct. Planning commission approves preliminary site plans, subdivision plots and final subdivision plots. It does not go to the council. We are an anomaly. And it's been like that since Joe Swisher was the chairman of the Planning Commission 40 years ago. Okay. At least 35 plus years ago. Now question. And you won't have this, well I shouldn't assume you don't have off the top of your head. But the people that are part of the Planning Commission and these other jurisdictions that approve, blah, blah, blah, blah. What is their background? They're just average joke people come in. OK, there's nobody on. I mean, they're not, they're not, when they're appointed to the board someplace, they're not necessarily looking for somebody with a specific type of background. No. Okay. But you are required to take the training through the Maryland Department of Planning. Gotcha. Through the Maryland Citizen Planners Association. Okay. And I believe the majority of you have already. Okay, all right. Just curious. But you know, they're all, they're all citizen planners. Just average. It all walks a life. Okay. All right. I believe have a grace and bell air and Hartford County government all do exactly that. Hartford County has a DAC. So they have a development advisory committee that's made up of a lot of staff You know, and then they also have the emergency services the health department public schools. They all attend the DAC meetings But me Bell air and have a grace and I encourage you to look on their Websites or e-codes to look at what their code says for planning commission But yeah, they like the council president said they it code says for planning commission. But yeah, the council president said it stops at the planning commission. Question two, the council president. What's the thought of the mayor and the council? We have not even brought it up yet. And I have intentionally not brought it up yet because we have been working through what is now ordinance the two Table of uses and the definitions. I don't want to overload with to me things related to planning on top of everything else So we're working on and what the mayor discussed tonight about long-term planning and growth in priority areas and utilities associated with that So it has not been brought to the council yet. I've spoken before, I've told a couple different people on the council that I support taking us out of the role. I think things become political. Everywhere else follows this process. You guys are citizen planners. You guys are making decisions out of any political position. And I think it's appropriate that the council relinquish that final review. Just like anybody else we can come to these meetings. We can speak on them, they can provide feedback to me and present that to you all when decisions are being considered by this body. But no, there has not been a collective discussion or a collective position from the council and the mayor on that particular element of the text amendments. Would this be something that if we have a work session with them we should bring up and have a conversation with or? It's probably at some point a conversation that needs to be had. Whether it's all of us together in our conversation or Phil's working with, if you guys, especially if you guys take a position on it, that these are the reasons why we are making this recommendation. And whether it's case studies here, looking at other places around the state, around the county, a collective conversation on it is probably a good idea, because it's going right into what the mayor mentioned about what we want to see, what our vision, our plan is, building off of the comprehensive plan along but to the specific planning areas, priority planning areas. And so if we do relinquish that, then it has this moral and the same page of what we're trying to see. I'll be today at the zoning in the walls and stuff that we can control. You have a lot of authority under the land use article in the Maryland code. You have a lot of authority and so does the Board of Appeals. So you've over the years for whatever reason, because this was happening before I was here, you took a more advisory role and recommending than action. It's always been advisory role. Twenty-two years. Okay. Okay. So I can give you examples of municipalities that operate like this. I mean. That might be helpful for you. The way Adam describes it, the purpose to remove it makes perfect sense. Yes. And so I understand I just want to make sure that we all are educated enough to feel comfortable and that's not saying, well, I can't say that. That doesn't mean that the council has any more knowledge of that. There's nobody on the council that is trained in planning. We've all either done our homework or learning throughout the process of what we need to be looking for, what we want to see when we get on to this role and try to, I haven't encouraged the council members to take the same planning course, training course that you all have taken. So we're no different than you guys other than being elected in terms of our background when it comes to reviewing these plans. And I've encouraged the council members and the mayor has to throughout this process to say a lot of the control that we have in this process and you guys as well is not when the plan is in front of you. It's when we did the zoning, when we did the table uses and definition. That's where the greater impact on what we want to see, what we don't want to see occurs. It doesn't happen as much on the one yard line when a plan gets put in front of you and subject to certain things that have to be met, there's very little you can do to stop the project. We all know that. So, I've encouraged them to be looking at, thinking about that now, as we're doing these other two elements to it rather than after the fact. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I have thoughts. Okay. Thank you,. Any other thoughts? Okay. Thank you, fellas. We'll be around on more. So just review the draft and next month I'll give you more of Article 2 to finish up that article and get your comments on what you have so far in front of you. Okay. Okay. And I'll make sure I get this too electronically if you would prefer that as well. I like the paper. Okay. Alright. So, item number three. Oh, sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's okay. Just can't get used to that. But I know that you will bring it to my attention. All right. So, Michael Hyde, I highly endorse the process or the idea of taking the mayor and the council out of that process of approving preliminary site plans for multiple reasons. Number one, the council president already mentioned it takes the politics out of it. Number two, it lightens their workload because you know they have so much to do. And quite honestly, I think another major reason is once it goes to the approval process here, it's your responsibility to make sure it meets all our code requirements and everything right. So you even can't stop it. You can't stop it. If it meets everything, all the requirements correct me if I'm wrong. People will only let my left over here. If they meet all the requirements, guess what? You have to prove it too. Same thing with the mayor and council. They can't stop it. They tried to stop the car wash over there. They couldn't do it, okay? Because it met our co-requartments. They have to do, you know, if, like the council president said, the time to change, if they need to change that is in the development code and the table of uses and the definitions. If it meets the current definitions in code, we're not going to stop it. We're just making sure that it meets it. So once again, there is really no reason to go to a mayor and council. So if you get your heads together and put all those ideas together and at some point, and I don't know when that would be, give that to them and hopefully they agree. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Item number three. Election of Chairman. Okay. So Mark, I've never done this before, but let me just put out there from the very beginning. I won't be looking to take any nomination for any office, and I'll explain why. One, and you're probably going to say, well why don't you say this before you were vice chairman? And I never really thought about it, long about the appointment letter. And I realized the appointment letter is five years or until a successor has been found. Well I feel like my appointment letter and I'm not looking for an appointment letter. I'm going to make that clear. Is been in limbo for, I don't know, years. It's not months. It's got to be years. My thought on this is that at a minimum, your chairman and your vice chairman, chairperson, vice chairperson, at a minimum should have a current appointment letter. It shouldn't be someone who's on the vote, and personally I don't think anybody should be on the board with an appointment letter. Period. I think that it just causes too much upheaval. So without an appointment letter and you have a chairman and the mayor decides, oh, I found a replacement, when now you've caused more inconsistency, right? So that's just my opinion. It doesn't read that way in the code, but my opinion is that at the minimum your chairperson and your vice-chair person should have that appointment letter. And the next step would be I don't know why there's anybody sitting on this board that doesn't have an appointment letter that wants one But it becomes it's being used as a placeholder in my opinion the position is being used as a placeholder until somebody else is found And that doesn't sit well with me at all, but I'm just Here so I think tonight has to be a very happy year here, Carrie. Thank you. So with that, I'm saying I'm not looking for an appointment letter and as a matter of fact, I'll be leaving the board on March 31st of 2025. I wanted to give the mayor enough time to get a replacement on here. Okay. So tonight will be the election of your chairperson and your vice chairperson. So with that being said, all that mumbo jumbo, I will now open it up to nominations for, let's start with Chairman, I guess. Does it matter? Which way you go? Okay, let's start with Chairperson. Nominations for Chairperson. I would like to nominate Beth for Chairperson. Okay. I second that nomination. Time to vote. Well, Beth, do you wanna make a statement? I wanna make a very, very clear statement that whoever the vice chair winds up to be, if greenside ever comes back in front of the commission or the wetlands becomes a solar farm, I will not be sitting at this dyes. I want to make that perfectly, absolutely crystal clear if that's the case. Your first chairman will step in for you. Correct. Okay, I think that's fair. That would be the only way. Okay, okay. And I think that's doable. It doesn't stop. Is that anything? So I think that's doable. All right. I think that is appropriate. Yeah. You always have to say that. Is that anything? So I think that's doable. All right. I think that is appropriate. Yeah. It is necessary. Yes, it's necessary. Right, right, right. Right. We'll be on the front page. I mean, it's on the record. Exactly. That's why I made that comment when Reservant Greenside was there and she was sitting on the dais. Really, you should step off the dais in the audience. Yes. And recuse yourself. Right. Because you have an investor. Yes. Formally recuse. Yes. Formally recuse yourself. Right. Before they start with their presentation. Right. And that's for everybody. Yeah. Absolutely. When I was on board for Habitat and Habitat properties came before us. You literally formally explained I have to recuse myself, I sit on the board, and then you sit out in the gallery. Yes. So at that point, she would have to do that, and the vice chair would take over me. Okay. That's fair. Okay. So I guess we put it to a vote. All in favor of Beth points, and as the chairperson of the- Have we done a single vote? Oh, I'm sorry. Do you want to do it singly. We'll take it individually. Okay. We can do that if you want. Roll call please. Okay. Council President Hayab. I can never. I need to have a vote. You don't vote. No. I need to do this. I'm sorry. During a regular council meeting, if you don't really attend, I am the first to have a vote. You don't vote. I'm going to do this. I'm sorry. During a regular council meeting, if those who don't regularly attend, I am the first one that's called. So we're having, start with William Brown. Hi. Beth Boy, I'm in standing. She can vote for her. Beth Boyson, do it. Go ahead. Okay. Darren Wasson. OK. All right. OK. Darren Wasson. Hi. Samuel's not here. Terry Preston. I. Mark Schlottman. Yes. And Deonte Printup. Hi. OK. So that passed. So thank you, Ms. Chairperson. I need your note. Oh, that passed. So thank you Ms. Chairperson. I need your note. Oh that exists. So I read off the first. Oh yeah I give you a cheat sheet. I just stole from Mike over there. Go on right. You guys expanded a little bit which is actually nice. You guys expanded you guys, um, expanded. It was nice. OK. So now we have the election of the vice chair person. Do we have any nominations? I'm hearing crickets. Ah, well, go ahead. You go ahead. No, go ahead, Dan. No, please. No, I'm just going up. That's all. Oh, you just. You go ahead. No, go ahead. No, no, no, please. No, I'm just going. That's all. What were you doing? Oh, you're just sitting up? Yeah. All right. Well, I would nominate Darren wasum as the vice chair person. I second that. Okay. Are you okay with that? I'm fine with it. All right. Well, let's put it to a vote then. Okay. William Brown. Aye. Beth Boyson. Aye. Darren Wasum. No. Cherry Preston. Aye. Mark Schlattman. Aye. Deontay Printup. Hi. Is there a new? Wow. Wow. Okay. He came in thinking one way and he left a different way. Well, we thought it was going to be you. Well, there you go. Yeah. I just, you know, I just wanted to mess your day up. You're not leaving the city, are you? No. Okay. No. No, no, no. I'll just make a comment too. From my time on the ethics commission, every time your term was up, every year the mayor would come in and swear everyone in if I'm not mistaken, well that's how it worked when we were on the commission together. So it's kind of new to me to hear members serving on a board without having. I think it was more of the term. So if it was like two years, three years, then it coming on whenever you got the new letter. So if it's five years, then it coming up to five year mark. Yeah, so I think we're down to myself and Mr. Schlockman is. I have no letter. So yes. Well, thank you for coming your pre-week. OK. So any other items for the good of the board? Oh, go ahead. Just follow the company again. Yeah, there you go. Get out. Follow the company. Oh, on.. Just follow the company again. Yeah, there you go. Oh, get it. Oh, come on. Get it on. Congratulations, Beth. Congratulations. And thank you for your short term. You're the short term. Yeah, the short term. And for a worse intervention. Absolutely. I do have a couple of things I want to bring up. I attended the right now Hartford County is doing its comprehensive rezoning. I sat on that board the last time they did it. If you go on Hartford's website, go to Hartford Track it. There's a parcel at the corner of Long Drive in Gilbert where Linda Baines, you know, that whole reddit that Steve is out owns it all. He's asking for B3. There was another property that's back behind the Johnson property, which is at the end of technology drive, and they're asking for light industrial. So these are right on virtually the city's boundaries. I mean, one's right on the city's boundaries, and I think we should keep an eye on where that goes through the process They have one more public comment meeting and I think it's that edge would or bell or high school Next week maybe or maybe it already was but you can submit written comments And there is one property on root 40 that will be aware it's like Nustrel as well So right down below towards Pesudia. So in that area, just to keep an idea on what's happening, they get to comment on our stuff. Right, but they get on plans and stuff. We get their comments and there are a lot of times they do things right outside our city limits. That's true. You know. So the city officially sends a position in and we've already done that for those properties, not the one in 40, but those that have it a bearing on our comprehensive plan. Just so you're aware. But it is it for public comment like she said so. That's you said there were two things. Um, two things. There's, there's where they keep the two items. Yes, yes. Okay. Those were the two items. The one. Yes. I got it. Okay. Phil, the same thing for the good. I do. I want to tell you guys that we're going to have a December Christmas party before the meeting. Okay. So I will send out an invite to all of you and we'll probably meet here and have food here. Like we've done over the years. From all of you. All right. All right. All right. One of the two. Okay. Either or great. Yes. Yes. Okay. And cast it. Okay. Is five o'clock okay for everybody? Five. I can't wait. Is there okay for you? Mm-hmm. Yes. Okay. Mark. Awesome. Okay. Thank you, Councilmember. I know this. Awesome. Okay. Thank you, Council President. Second Wednesday in December. Five o'clock. The only thing I would add, and Mary reference a little bit earlier with the future of discussion with all of you, we had a work session this past we could go Monday discussing planning growth areas. There, as you probably know, there are a lot of applicants, or potential applicants that want to apply for annexation. Bush Chapel, Paradise, Gilbert Road. And there is a lot of conversation going on about infrastructure capacity, what we want to see in those collective areas, timing for those as well. You know, we've got green side that's already been in front of you once and that is a active project in it within planning. And so that combined with what we potentially see beyond that is a major point of conversation that we are starting to have. What we want to see in those areas, what the developers, how many players there are, and basically, okay, if this is going to require a utility line running from paradise meadows north of anything we've got right now, all the way down to Swan Creek, and what does that look like? What's each developer's role in that? What's basically their APFO combined with their connection chart is going to be, and what do we want to see in those areas? What's the road never going to look like? And what do we want to bring in what we want to bring in? So there's early stages of conversation. We've talked about this in two different work sessions. Now, and I encourage you to, we meet every third Wednesday as a work session to try to attend a couple of those. There's an item that comes up that is relative to planning. And I'm sure if the interest of the body is to meet with the council, because I think the council is, gentlemen, is our is to meet with the council because I think the council is a journalist to meet with you all that we could get something scheduled for probably in the early of the new year to do that since there's a lot coming we've held you know annexation applications for a while now to get through this work and the work that you guys have done work that we've. So just something for you guys really to be thinking about, too, about what you want to see in these areas, not just what was in those small planning areas that are in the comp plan, but specifically what type of housing do you want to see, what type of commercial uses, what type of spaces, what do we need for maybe for city services. So just something for you guys to keep keeping the back of your mind. And of course, encourage you all to attend our Christmas Street facilities. That'll be between now and our next meeting on the first Saturday and the Friday before around Aberdeen. And I hope we'll hopefully have a couple of the plans that you guys have approved recently on our next council looks couple council meeting agendas I'll be working with the mayor to get those in front of the body from the council and otherwise More to come and congratulations both Beth and Darren Yes Okay. Yes. I'm going to try to do that. Okay. I'm going to try to see how they. Oh, and just a little plug in for Main Street, December 6th, Festival of Trees. And that will be held at 2 or 3 Westbeller Avenue. And it's, I believe that Vicki Horn has 16 trees already. Oh, nice. 16 trees already for the festival trees. And you can purchase a tree there that's already decorated. And then the parade event is the next day. Breakfast with Santa, Firehouse Craft Fair, and then the parade and the tree lighting. And she's done and the museum, I apologize, the Aberdeen Museum. I was very surprised about the festival of trees. Very interested in that. Thought that was a great ad. Yes, yes, absolutely. In the former bank building on Westbiller Avenue. TV3 event center. TV3 event center, so it's gonna be great. Look forward to that. And tomorrow night from 6 to 8 p.m. Is the community input meeting at the TV3 event center. Courage you if you are available to come down, even if you don't have questions to listen and we've gotten several comments or several questions already submitted in. Mayor will be leading that. I'm sure a lot of the department staff and the council will be there. So those are always informative and good meetings to hear from community members about things that we're not hearing at the council meetings or it's in a neighborhood that none of us live in. here from community members about things that we're not hearing at the council meetings or in Santa neighborhood that none of us live in. So we're not hearing about X, Y, or Z issues. So certainly encourage you all to attend that from six to eight tomorrow night at the TB-3 event center with our nice new deck out front. I know. It looks very nice. OK. Do I have anything else? Anybody wants to bring up? Anybody? OK. Do I have anything else? Anybody want to bring up? Anybody? Okay. Do I have a motion to adjourn? So moved. Okay. Second it. Second. Okay. My last clip