you you Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to oops, round one. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do doot doot doot doot doot doot. My board seems to have a organic hey here we are the first session of the policy committee on environmental and natural resource management. We're here today in the West-White Civic Center joining us from Hilo. We have a couple of council members. Today is May 6th. The time is 10 a.m. Joining us today we have Council Member Houston, Council Member Onishi, councilmember Inaba, councilmember Kanye Lee Kleinfelder, councilmember Kimball, and councilmember Galimba. Joining us from Hilo, we have councilmembers Kirkowitz and Kaguyawara and I, myself, I'm Rebecca Villegas, chair, boop. Calling this meeting to order and asking Mr. Clerk, do we have any statements from the public? Thank you, Chair Villegas. I know I realize we have one testify by Zoom, not anybody here on Kona. I'm just checking to see if anybody's here to testify on Kona. No? Okay, Mr. Araceli. Can you please help us out with testimony from Zoom and potentially courtesy sites? Thank you. Thank you so much. Chair, just noting that we do not have any testifiers at our courtesy sites. Our only testifier is via Zoom, Chuck Flarity. Chuck, when you begin, if you could reintroduce yourself, you'll have three minutes to provide your testimony on resolution one7. Hello, how much here I'm in members of the committee. My name is Chuck Flaherty. I'm speaking today on behalf of the YL and group of this year club who is in support of this resolution 137-25 for the reason stated in the whereas clauses. Essentially Essentially there are two questions that I would hope could be addressed in the discussion of this resolution by the committee. The first one is does the resolution include requirement for location of water wells, the number of backup pumps for each well and updated water analysis for each well. And that is because of the issue that we've had in the past of pumps going bad and it being several weeks before new pumps are able to be brought in. And given the issue with tariffs and supply chains, that's I think increased concern as well as there have been indications of increased salinity and certain wells such as the Kahaloo system. In addition, does the resolution include reporting for private water wells and systems because those are also drawing on the the aquifers in particular in South Kona. We've been noting that there have been private wells that are being drilled for several large subdivisions that are being that have been proposed and planned or in process in South Conan involving hundreds of acres each so if you could address those important issues at this time when average rainfall has been decreasing for many years and when the withdrawal from and recharge of aqua versus becoming increasingly problematic, we would very much appreciate it. Thank you very much for all that you do for our citizens. Thank you so much for your testimony, Chair. Those are all the testifiers you have at your remote sites. Thank you, Rellie. Mr. Clerk. Resolution 137-25 requested Department of Water Supply to develop and maintain an online system displays general water availability countewide, including number of units, active commitments, and developer agreements. Creates an online system hosted and maintained by the Department of Water Supply that would provide access to reliable transparent and up-to-date information about water availability for informed decision-making and to support the county's long-term goals for sustainable developments and water resource management, introduced by Councilmember Inaba. Chair motion to forward resolution 137-252 council with a favorable recommendation It's been moved by council member Inava and seconded by council member Houston council member Inava go ahead and hand floor to you Thank you. I'm chair via yes I want to say that this resolution is pretty straightforward We We know that water really dictates where and when things can be built on our island and understanding the need for affordable housing, things like preschools, all types of public and private projects we really would like to see. the Department of Water Supply provide water availability maps and currently, we have to submit requests for individual projects. Those requests are then evaluated by the department and then a letter is returned to the inquiring parties. So what this would do would provide access all the time to seeing where water availability is, who has commitments and then which of those big developers have agreements that have locked in water credits to certain areas or parcels. So understanding that the Department of Water Supply is a semi-autonomous department and to address some of the questions that were brought up by the testifier, this resolution doesn't seek to address water wells, water quality, or even the private water systems as a specific to the Department of Water Supplies systems and where they currently feed. We want to also be in my info of not overstepping the Kuleana of the water board in this case. So if I could call on members of the Department of Water Supply, Mr. Okamoto, if you would like to chime in, you're gonna own this resolution, please. Thank you, Mojolo's Chair Villegas. With me, I have, I'm Keith Okamoto, Manager Chief Engineer, Department of Water Supply, with as our deputy. No, yeah, like Mr. Inaba mentioned, it seems to be straightforward. I think it's good for us to post this information as requested. So, yeah, if there's questions of us, please feel free. Thank you. So in general, you folks are in support of this effort. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Awesome. I will yield the floor to any questions from the membership at this time. Thank you. Any questions from anyone? Council member Galimba. Thanks. Yeah, just a quick question. The wells, well, you use both surface and deep water wells, right? So I'm just wondering about like how often you would be estimating the output for the different kinds of wells. Like surface well, surface sources probably change quite a lot from year to year, as opposed to some of the deeper sources. So just yeah, how often do you folks evaluate yield. Okay, yeah. So for groundwater, it's really straightforward, right? It's the capacity of the pump and motor. And you are correct. We do have surface source, but we only actually have one, which is in Waimea. We have some tunnel and spring sources in other areas that are fairly reliable. Even during times of drought, it's the Y-Mail one that gets affected by long-term dry conditions. And we're actually experiencing some of that now. And how that factors into this water availability and commitment. I think it's more art than science but so but whatever is out there already and committed in other words they you know gone through the process secured commitments either by some type of agreement or a water commitment deposit. Our our responsibility our obligation is that they have those commitments and so we we need to do whatever we need to do to honor those commitments. And you know, the challenging part is we don't have the timeline on when those will be called upon. So we always have to try and evaluate our system and provide for enough excess capacity, which is how we typically do that is when we do our CIP projects. So if we're replacing either a pipeline or storage facility, we will typically up size it to add capacity in those components. I'm not sure. Hopefully that answers some of your question. That's helpful. I guess so is it like the timeline would be like, annually do you go back and look at things or just as things happen continuously? Yeah, more as things happen, especially if there's a significant proposed project that we're aware of, but usually the smaller ones are usually Okay, yeah, okay. Thanks very much Thank you councilmember Gellimbo council members in Hilo Yes, please chair. Thank you. Go ahead councilmember her go it's thank you chair Vegas and full support of the resolution. Thank you, Yes, please, Chair. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor Leverker. Go ahead. Thank you, Chair V. Agas. In full support of the resolution, thank you, Councilmember Inaba for bringing this forward, and I appreciate that this is going to be something that is well received and executed by our Department of Water Supply. Administrator Okamoto, I was wondering how long you anticipate it taking for your department to pull together this online directory of information. I guess that's the money question. So, you know, I think we do have staff. Recently we've hired a few more engineers in our planning branch within engineering so we're hopeful that we can create a product at least for testing within the next two months I would say and then I'm sure some of the details would need to be worked out after you know people get a get a chance to kind of test it out moving forward. We are fortunate that our GIS personnel is pretty, has the skill set. I think that can make this work relatively quickly. Fantastic, That's great to hear. So maybe we'll have something beta to look at by the end of this year. Yeah, yeah, for sure before the end of this year. Okay, fantastic. And then I know that there are specific things that are being requested for this system. Number of water units, the water commitments, and then any existing developer agreements. Are you also thinking about just general capacity of different regions within the island and then taking a look at any changes within climate environment that might affect how much water is available in an area. Just wondering if any of the like the science and data is going to make its way into your into your online tracking system. Yeah, so I think that was part of the response to councilmember Galymba's question and the part of the the art to it is the science part is is fairly straightforward We know our production capacity. We know our consumption current consumption What we what we don't really know is what's gonna go where? So we do have different water availability even within a single water system and that relates to you storage capacity, pipeline capacity, even zoning of certain large parcels, things like that. But I guess short answer, yes, that goes into our evaluation to determine water availability and our capacity to allow for water commitments. And as far as climate change, fortunately for us, we haven't really seen too much impacts on our groundwater sources and we don't anticipate seeing too many. It's more on the surface water source that we're anticipating some impacts due to climate change. Thank you for that clarification. And then in terms of where developments go, we will be evaluating the general plan our long range development blueprint as a council over the next year. So hopefully that's something that can be taken into consideration too, as you folks build out your online tool. Yes, we're sure. Great. Thank you. And full support. I yield. Thank you, Councilmember Cricowitz. Anyone else here in Gona? Okay. I'll go ahead and bring this home with a couple of comments and questions. First off, I want to thank Councilmember Inaba for bringing this forward and working with you guys to establish very succinct goals for what should be included in this program. I think that it's going to be very helpful moving forward as decisions continue to be made. And we have a big push in West Hawaii as far as development and expansion and water is something that is linked to the ability for any more building here. I wanted to first, or second, I wanted to give another big Aloha to Senator Drew Kanuha for the securing of $4 million from this last state legislature session that would be focused on and set aside for a Kauho aquifer study, which I think is a long time coming to get more information about what's going on with that aquifer. And you know, I talked to you guys a number of years ago and we, you know, I was very green in this job, not that I'm maybe I'm dark green now. But still trying to get my bearings and you guys were very helpful in our conversation. You came and gave a presentation to Council about the Water Use Development Plan. We still haven't seen that come back. Can you answer any questions? And is that going to be included in this? Yeah, we're kind of anticipating a question like that. So yeah, thanks for that question, Chair Viegis. So to be quite blunt, yeah, we brought it, I think back in 2017 and then we actually dropped the ball on seeing it across the finish line, basically because of different other fires we had to put out. But we've basically been following the strategies that we had in our pre-final draft, which is keeping Mauka trying to use less of the basil and keeping China spread out our wells more appropriately so they're not all concentrated in one area. If they all go down in one area then now we'll have probably some challenges with continuing to provide water. And then more recently we've been in communication quite regularly with the State Commission on Water Resource Management and their new leadership there. And we've recently found out that they're looking at changing the whole statewide framework for the water code and the associated plans that come with that. So we've decided to actually pause on wrapping up our water use and development plan because there's probably going to be a waste of money. If we don't know what the school, that the state wants us to study, and even more recently at a recent CWR meeting, they're planning to have an adaptive management plan for the region. So even more so, it's probably not prudent for us to pay a consultant to do a study that just may not be appropriate based on the changes that are happening at the state level. So yeah, so as far as the Wateries and Development Plan, we took it to pre-final, we're following basically our strategies that we've outlined in that plan. We've just never finalized it as the code says, we're supposed to which is through council and then back to receive work. Okay. I suppose that sounds good, but I just, as long as what the state is looking at is panel and alignment and takes into into consideration what the holdups were and our water use development plan, I have your outline that you guys brought to us in 2021. And you know, the things that were missing here was, you know, issues around the Cahoe Aquifer system about a homo-council and native Hawaiian traditional and customary practices. And I just have concerned that that's never been addressed and it continues to get kicked down the road. And I don't know that the state is going to have the connectivity to our specific issues, to our specific places here when it comes to cultural practices and our aquifer systems as they relate to fish ponds. So those are just some of my concerns. So thank you for that. I guess I'll be hopeful that this $4 million for the Carole Aquifer project will align some of this, but we can talk off line, but I don't know, I just I feel like somewhere the actual answers, succinct direction and accountability is being missed when it comes to as it relates to our sacred cultural sites and how our use of water affects those directly. Go ahead and push the button. So just for your awareness, we actually have been meeting with stakeholders and those representatives for traditional customary practices throughout all the years. And every well permit has to go through CWRM and they're requiring a Kapa Akai analysis for each well permit. And I think the new leadership as you are my again, I don't want to speak on their behalf, but it's just basically from our discussions, this is what I'm kind of piecing together. Is they recognize that concern as well. And I think that's part of the reason to have this adaptive management plan. And it's going to, I got to believe, it's going to incorporate the proper stakeholders from this area. And I believe the plan is to look at it more regionally, more holistically than, you know, well by well kind of thing. So it's all connected, right? The water is actually all connected somehow, but right. Yeah. So that's their plan. So stay tuned. We're also asking, what is the framework for that plan? What was the time frame? And we're hopeful that at least that's the step in the right direction for this region. Okay, great. Thank you. Yeah, I've got my folder here from all the times. We've talked to all the different reports and plans and you know, one of the times we talked, I was asking for. And I'm excited to hear that it sounds like you have GIS mapping because a few years ago when we talked to you guys were like, we're still using a DOS system. And I was like, well, how do we make decisions on water allocation? You may have the information about production and consumption but how do we accurately, efficiently and effectively make those decisions if we don't have a map, right? If we don't have a map, I mean, each TMK has water units, right? Allocated to it, but there was no collective map. Are we closer to having something like that and will this, what this resolution is kind of requesting from you guys? Will that be, I'm not mind I see like a digital map of the island and we actually finally have how many TMKs are out there, how many units have been allocated, where are they allocated, and then that can be compared to sustainable yield and all that kind of stuff, and then we actually have accurate data. Is that what we're in for? So I think as described in the resolution, so we'll provide what we have as far as the commitments and general water availability for those parcels that may not have water units locked in to that particular parcel. Not every parcel has a commitment. And then as far as comparing it to sustainable yield. So there's other private wells out there that are also drawing from the aquifer that we don't have the responsibility for. So yeah, and we don't have that information on how much they're pumping and where those are going, but we'll have ours. And what we kind of envision is kind of like a dashboard the GIS where I think you can search by parcel or you can just you know look at the graphics and see and click you know here and there what what parcel has what that's kind of what we're thinking of using the GIS tool for. Okay thank you because I've had constituents who native Hawaiian descent to land rich you know money poor and they had large parcels that had, you know, upwards of 100 water units. And they didn't ever see themselves utilizing that. So they came to me saying, what do I, how can we utilize these? Because my neighbor needs water units. But I have the water units. And so I'm hoping that this new resource can also educate community and public on what's available. I just want more specifics. I want details, because when people, I have a lot of different people coming to me, especially here in West Hawaii, where we're getting told that, you know, Kukuiola doesn't have the water units necessary to do our new homeless shelter. Not sure if it's to or not, but once again, all the different things are, we can't, you know, they can't build here because they don't have the water units or another affordable housing projects held up because they don't have the water units. And to not be able to answer any of those questions because I can't find the data and I'm not sure what's out there and also recognizing at a time, when... And to not be able to answer any of those questions because I can't find the data and I'm not sure what's out there and also recognizing at a time when water, I mean water is always wealth, right? When you look at our host culture, vi vi is wealth. And whoever controls water, controls development. And we have certain needs here on the west side, but I also, this is a priceless and precious resource. And as we've seen what's happened to the water in Oahu and what's happened to their wells and what's happened when we've had divergence of water in Lahaina and how, that's been directly affected to the fires. So I'm just, I'm really looking for wisdom. I know you guys have that at heart to protect the resource and ensure that it's not overly commodified, manipulated, or consumed. So I am looking forward to seeing this resource and being able to answer the questions accurately with, science and the data and there it is. And so measures being taken to protect and preserve be just as viable and validated by this as measures taken to allocate units for needed workforce housing projects or a home-to-shelter facility. So thank you for being here today. Thank you again, Councilmember Inaba, something that's been bouncing around in my head for years, and he went ahead and put it on paper. I appreciate that. All right. If there are no other questions, Councilmember Cunnelly, finefelder. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Nubba, for being this forward for our Department of Water's play for being here today. I like what has been said today. I've wondered the same questions for years. How do you folks work with the Planning Department currently to establish future water infrastructure? Yeah, so we've been working with them on their general plan update, but as far as future water infrastructure, so we're not developers. So our future water infrastructure really is focused on replacement of existing infrastructure. Bottom line is we don't have the capacity to extend our infrastructure into unserved areas. And the main reason for that is fiscal, right? It takes tens of millions of dollars, but we don't have the same capacity as somebody who owns the land that can subdividate cell off the lots to recoup that capital investment. Our rates and our water bills are really designed to cover ONM expenses with a little bit extra for capital expense, which is for repair and maintenance. So hopefully getting back to your question, every land use application that goes in front of planning, whether it be a subdivision application, changes its own special permit, they send us that request, and then we'll provide our comments on the capacity of our system, or whether or not we can support that request. Hopefully that answers your question. Yeah, this is an interesting answer, Keith. So what I'm hearing is one county water supply is some autonomous. So county council doesn't really track or maintain your budget. You have your own budget based on your fees. Two, you work with the Planning Department but not as a developer, but more so too. Keep consistent water supply and safe water supply to the community. And then three, you, I guess the big question for me is number three, how do you plan for density and infill? Yeah, so if you're not thinking like a developer and you're not a, I mean not so they're not accountable by how do you think like a, how do you not think like a developer but plan for infill and intensity increase in our company? Yeah, so every time we do a CIP project, we'll kind of take a look at the service area. And maybe what it's zoning is and the potential of where maybe new services might go. And then that's how we, so we typically don't, when we do a replacement project, if it's an old steel tank and replace it with a new concrete storage tank, for example. If it was like a 50,000 gallon steel tank, we won't put the same size back, right? We'll up size it to at least 100,000, maybe even more. Same thing with water line, if we do booster replacements. So yeah, that's how we approach it. The challenge for us is we don't know what's gonna happen during what time frame. So we kind of have to balance and not over-size our system too much when we do those CIP projects. Because what can also happen when you go too far too far as far as oversizing without the actual use is you can run into water quality stagnant water issues. So it's a kind of a fine balancing act. Yeah. I think the beauty of what Mr. Naba is doing is he's asking folks to one bring up and maintain an online system so that what you're doing as I'm not you, but as what the department is doing is visible and transparent. But two, what I'm seeing and what I'm reading this resolution is really determining feasibility of housing infrastructure and commercial projects in Hawaii County. But I also see that in the say the Pune District, for example, you have huge infill happening, and it's been happening for decades. And in Kona, I mean, it is across the island, you have infill and density increase. And so it's requiring almost you guys really think about how not only giving it to the public and the information online but also how you're going to be improving and offering water access to individuals whether or not it's at the end of one year guys infrastructure systems or not or if we have a duty and responsibility to provide water to the community as a county. Yeah, I think that will be all, hopefully, secondary benefits from this product is people will get to see what, hopefully some opportunities are out there. And like you said, it'll help us as well do some internal evaluation and considering of potential infill situations. I guess again, the challenges that the timeframe, our island is just so huge that we can provide our infrastructure for everybody. But we try if can, like you was mentioning, if we have a water main but their parcel is what we call out of bounds and doesn't front it, if our system can handle, we'll allow them to get a meter but then they'll be responsible from the meter to get it to their property. Yeah. If you did think this on, would you try and coordinate with an existing system that the county already operates like our GIS platform or Epic system, not saying that that's where you should land, just putting it out there, would you try and do that? Or are you looking at doing a whole new water supply system for online transparency blah, blah, blah? Yeah, I think it'll be our own product that will be accessible to planning. Nowadays we can share GIS layers and things like that. But for now, I think we're planning to host it on our website for now. But again, as this product, I guess, develops further to open to different options or solutions. And then I think you might have answered before, what is your time frame expected to put this up? I know Council member Kirk Wishes said before the end of the year, so we're cool with that. Okay, so you're six months, six to nine months. Yeah, hopefully sooner but you know how things go. But yeah, we're hopefully in the next few months but end of the year is very, very doable. Okay. Well, the floor to sing the results and Mr. Namba, thank you for bringing this forward. I yield check. Thank you. Okay. No one else. I'll just bring it home really fast. I'm not sure if my colleagues have had the opportunity to read the article in civil beat that came out on April 23rd, 2025 entitled Westway needs more water but at what cost? The battle over a single, cone of well site shows the tension between development and protected Indigenous water rights. It's a very all-inclusive article that highlights the challenges and opportunities and the safeguards currently in place. Also the push for water unit allocation for a development in my district, but concerns related to the authentic affordability of those units for our local people if built. So another dynamic here when allocating water units, if they're going towards developments that are people authentically comma, Ina and Makai, I can't afford. Should we be allocating the water units to those places? Anyway, just something to take a look at. I have a copy if you'd like to see it. If there are, oh, Enable for this. I just had a question. This is very focused on our county systems. Would there be an opportunity down the road to incorporate some of the C-Warm data and reporting data further down the road? To kind of, you know, this, we have these really different entities and we have to go to each of them for their reporting data, their information, is that data would it be available for you to incorporate into the system further down the road? I think it's something for consideration. So, like certain things we have available, the aquifer boundaries, their sustainable yields. I think we can incorporate that into our GIS. I think what might be sensitive that we don't have the information for is the private well-pumping. I think we can post ours online. What we're very cautious also for Homeland Security is we're going to be very reluctant to show where our sources are just due to biotech terrorism threats and things like that. But I think we could somehow put information up there of, you know, our pumping rates and things like that for sure. Thank you, Chief. Thanks, Deputy. Thanks, sir. Thank you, Councilman Prehistus. There are no other questions or comments, all those in favor of closing file on is closing file in resolution. Forwarding resolution 137-25 to Council with a positive recommendation. Please say aye. We have nine eyes. If there is no other business for this committee, we are adjourned.