you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go the meeting to me. I'm here. Yes. Here. Here. Here. All right. Excuse me. You left off me. I am present even though John warrior we forgot to tell you all right about that yeah, we wanted a chocolate. This is why we called this. Yeah. Three left. Three left. Three left. Three. Okay. So we'll make sure John's added to the roll call, Tammy. Thank you. Everybody had, actually, there's no minutes from the last meeting. So we will hold on that. Old business, public hearing, that. Old business public hearing nothing. New business. Discussion of the bylaws. The next agenda item is everybody had a chance to try to review, look, discuss. I'd actually like to start with the ordinance first. All right. The ordinance, one second. And I have it right here. I have it right here. I have it. It's ordinance number 97-R-05. A resolution of the City Council of the City of Edgewater, Florida regarding the Economic Development Board, establishing the duties and responsibilities, membership, appointment, removal terms, vacancies, qualifications, appointment, removal terms, vacancies, qualifications, officers, corum and vote necessary, repealing resolutions in conflict here with an establishing and effective date. This was back in February 1997. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but it's important. Lately, there's been questions about the economic development board. So I've been reminding others throughout the city that when we were appointed in Wai, our duties and responsibilities set forth in 1997. Economic Development Board here after EDV shall serve as an advisory board to the City Council and shall have the following duties and responsibilities. To formulate plans for the use and development of property designated for commercial and industrial development, said plans shall be presented to the City Council as recommendations and the presentation shall incur include staff. To annually recommend a budget to the City Council for money's necessary to carry out the purposes of the EDB all actual expenditures shall be subject to the approval of the City Manager. All board members request or expenditures of funds shall be approved to the approval of the city manager. All board members request for expenditures of funds shall be approved first by the ED chair and vice chair. We've never had any of that. But, and then to promote the city of the edgewater as a prospective site for business and industrial development, provided that no expenses for advertising or other promotional methods shall be incurred without prior approval of the City Council unless specifically identified under the economic development lines, blind item of the current general fund budget. Okay, then if you go to the bylaws, the bylaws more or less get more into the weeds of everything. But if you go to Article 6, Powers and Doodies, on page 3, it lays out the powers and deeds in more detail. And I just thought it was important because we've sort of been bypassed in this whole moratorium conversation due to timing and things. But in talking to you some of the city council members here again, you know, they're like, we've sort of thought about that comment. I'm like, we are a check and a balance for you against the planning and zoning board. And I don't know if everybody's aware, but the planning and zoning board had already unanimously approved both moratoriums. So that's why it was very important that we were there on Monday. Just talk about the moratoriums for Kelsey wasn't here. Ryan, you want to give us a short version? Sure. There are two more Toriums that were brought before the planning and zoning board and then City Council. Permit that would increase in pervious surface would not be allowed for a year in the Florida shore strainage basin The second one was a citywide annexation rezoning on Branson plan amendment site plans preliminary plans final plans PUD amendments that was citywide had no exclusions that would have included commercial and industrial when it was brought to planning and zoning. It was changed for between first and second reading it will be changed to exclude park avenue corridor and us one corridor for commercial and industrial. And still will stop and so the way that works is that if you have committed welcome back. If you have submitted you will be allowed to continue through the process but if you have not you will have to wait a little. So the original, if I'm not mistaken, at least when I read the notes for the planning and zoning was commercial and industrial was excluded completely. And then somehow after the planning and zoning, it was included. It was after the workshop. And then it went to planning and zoning. And planning and zoning even questioned it because they had seen the first one too. But still voted for 7-0 to 7-0 to move forward. But to your point, you know, calendar and no calendar, one committee was presented in the Presented the information and council had their opinion and one or didn't did another opinion. He's still running out. So on Monday night was the first reading of the moratorium and I know Kelsey's just coming back from maternity leave baby number two so he's getting back into it and we're dumping on you know today In January January 6th So that is the next City Council meeting that will be the second meeting will it be a first again now that it's been changed? So will it be a second? Okay, it'll be a second And that'll be the adoption here So that'll run for a year, January 6th to January 6th to 20th. And if I may, I had been speaking with many of the Councilmen prior to the meeting, not once, sometimes several times. And I can tell you that some of them were steadfast. Nope, we're having a moratorium. And I was telling them, there's, you know, SEBMTC, the Board of Realtors, the Business Industry Association, V-Card, which is Volusia County Association for Responsible Development, and the Chamber. I said, we are all organizing and we are all going to be here. Unfortunately, it was really only, I mean, everybody was sending emails, everybody was making phone calls. But if you've dealt with the City Commission, their council, they are inundated with emails and they've got lots of paper from Ryan and everybody to read each time. It's overwhelming because there's just so much with it that a lot of it isn't getting read and a lot of it is not understood because you know you start talking about millage rate and it's like June but if you say your utility bill is right now it's 1450 a month and it's going to go to 4375 a month. They're like, a month, that hits home to them. And some of them, I'm like, and you ran on, you lowering the utility bill. I said, but everything you're doing is going to raise the utility bill. raised until he did. Oh, I didn't understand that. So you've got to speak to them. But then a lot of times, what they say to you is they agree. They agree. But they get in front of this mob. And none of us are here. The pro-business people aren't here. All they've gotten in front of them is the angry mob, crying, and telling their heart heart wrenching stories which it is heart wrenching. Nobody wants to be flooded. Nobody wants to be displaced. But when the business community and like people like Mike who say I got flooded and I'm against this and I'm on your economic development board and Rebecca and and John both gave powerful testimonies You know John you want to speak to yourself? He's not here You know his story was I'm the CEO and we had 18 people And people were like You know his story was I'm the CEO and we had 18 people flood with Lucer homes employees and people were like Wow and he goes and I'm against this So and then I loved it Dirty manufacturing comes up here and says we need to expand We're looking at property outside the county now. That was like, oh my God. You know, the flooding issue, just new mayor may not put floor to shores. There is some maintenance and some opportunities with retention plants that haven't been maintained, that may have several feet of additional soot in them, you know, building, holding less water. There are drainage ditches and swells that maybe needs to be re-evaluated in the thought process, at least from my opinion, is that's our first action. And if we still have a flooding issue, let's take a look. Now, I've spent $50,000 in the last three years on repairing a dock that's been there forever and never had a problem with it. It's up pretty high. The water is stronger. The force of the winds for hurricanes is more aggressive than I've seen, and I've been here for 20-some years. So I understand that losing a home isn't the same as losing a job, but we're still spending money for things that roof, you know, my roof's 12 years old and I lost a lot of it in the last storm. So you know, those kinds of things are part of what living in the coastal community exists. Now, I think as a city, we have an obligation to make sure that we are doing the best we can do to maintain what we have as the right retention before we penalize the entire city. And I mean every citizen that lives in the city with additional cost because there's a lot of revenue that's brought in by development and the costs associated with running the city are only going to go up in the next year. That money has to come from somewhere and I'm not sure that the residents understand that. Then on the pro-business side of things and bliss will speak better of that but there's a lot of work in the last ten that the residents understand that. Then on the pro-business side of things, and Bliss will speak better of that, but there's a lot of work in the last 10 years to try and attract great businesses and great paying jobs here. You've heard it from residents as long as I've been here. My kids go to college and they move away to get a great job. There isn't anything here. So the thought process of attracting aviation and aerospace, we're not going to have a Boeing in our backyard, but we may have second and third tier suppliers. But the thought process is we want to participate and be part of that movement. And in a proper way, it was also on many committees and subcommittees with the Chamber associated with smart growth with New Samona a few years ago. And I know it's tough people don't want to change where they live and why they live here. I get it. I love it here, too. I moved out of Fort Lauderdale because, yeah, probably a few reasons. But the end result is you have to have a growth plan and you have to be strategic about stopping everything seems anti what this whole city has worked for. I was here as part of the city and part of the community in 2008 through 10 when we were very challenged. Real estate costs or taxes went down. The city's cost didn't go down. We still had to manage all of the same things and it was a challenge. way back to a good growth moment. So my piece is it needs to be an informed decision. I understand, Bob, I get very frustrated at things too, but it can't be 100 people making a decision, or even a thousand people for 30,000. It just can't be that way. And Liz was saying this is the business side of the board and it's meant to be able to balance some of those decisions. And I think I know. I know. I know. And put in facts and figures. I guarantee that the young lady that that unfortunately lost her kitchen table and couldn't have Thanksgiving. Didn't quit working because her house flooded. And the reason I say that is my house flooded twice. My wife and I didn't quit our jobs because our house flooded. And the reason I make that analogy is the reason why we didn't quit our jobs and we kept working harder was because we needed the revenue to fix our house This to me the business side of it is the one thing like you said bliss the tax revenue and the millage and everything else that these the businesses Bring into the city is what will help us fix the people like myself lady the lady without the table, everybody else that flooded. So they can continue to not flood every year. It's not businesses are getting a better deal and their people that flood are getting screwed. You have to have some way to pay for this. This is like throwing the baby out with a bath water. I mean, this is just as a sign. So because everybody floods, we're gonna cut off our revenue stream to try to fix the flooding. While we're sitting here and Mayor Thomas is talking about not being on a four to three people to run a backhoe, while we're spending $9 million on a pickleball court. I mean, that's the most acid-nine thing I've ever heard in my life. Why are we not re-approved? You know, and the mayor is talking about moving money around to try to find a three-man crew. I mean, but then we have a moratorium to cut off our biggest tax revenue. You don't have to be on the city council to make a wise business decision. You don't have to be a business owner to make that decision. If you're running your personal finances in your house, make that decision. We lost a whole back of our house or furniture and everything. I didn't say, I don't want to quit my job. I wouldn't have any money to fix my house if I did that. This is in reality that's what the county or the city is saying by doing that. We're going to cut off our largest revenue stream to try to fix a problem. Well, the other thing is as Ryan elaborated last time, Florida shores is 2,200 acres, correct, and it only has 1% retention. So it's out of whack. And this is what I call the sins of the past. And they counsel after counsel, city manager, after city manager, city planner, after city planner has allowed Florida shores to continue to develop without ever addressing or making the retention. Yeah. And you build to the, you build to the west of it on the, on silver palm. You build to the south of it on Volko and Everybody's supposed to be have their own I understand each development supposed to have your own contain water plant none of them talk to each other But if you don't ever okay, so what I've been telling the council is you can stop everything in the city That Florida shores area Still gonna fly yeah, this is not one. You fix it. It's not going to. Okay, then there's it's been deferred maintenance because of lack of money for years. And it was one more thing. This is what drives people crazy is when we cover an off Facebook and set up my common sense and then you have our employees got level go and write citations and I can also speak to this citations for people not having culverts clear in their drainage area in front of their house in Florida shores yet there's no water been in there for 10 years because they haven't been cleaned. And then now we're writing our code enforcement as writing tickets. Somebody tell me if I'm wrong. That's all I'm doing on Willow yesterday. Writing code enforcement, writing tickets of homeowners for not having clean culverts. That shouldn't be, that's city property. they should be coming in there with a backhoe and ripping up everybody's yard regardless of what they say. Somebody wants a yard tough that's not through yard that's the city owned property. Every one of those was drink. I mean I listen I don't want a two foot French in front of my front yard but I want my house to flood either. But you know, that's where, that's where there's an opportunity to say to the residents. You either dig it up, or we're digging it up. And put in a culvert at the right, it has to be at the right, it has to be at the right, I had to. And if you don't do it, the city's gonna do it, going to charge you. I spent $30,000 on a driveway because I didn't have a culvert and I put a gold culvert in and there hadn't been one thing done of that trend since then. And I had a sign in my yard every day got fined every single week for not having a culvert. I got a went and got a plan like I was supposed to put a culvert on both driveways. Did a $30,000 concrete driveway on both sides and guess what? There ain't nothing flowing through there. So guess what? I did that so come French it out and how did that water flow through there? And if you did that on every single street, huh? That's what I'm saying so if I'm gonna be fine for not having a culvert Then the same thing should go back conversely Then if you if you can enforce it for having a culvert then you should go back and you should go back and have that water flow through everybody. Yes I think the key message is there are lots of opportunities to fix what we haven't done for so years I think everybody agrees to that but there's going to be a cost associated with trying to figure out how to increase the amount of retention for the 2200 acres. That is also going to be a cost. So it just feels like we're making this decision because it pacifies a group of people, but there is no conceivable way to execute without the financial part of it. It can't be done. I don't see the city being able to manage that. Now, with the current tax base that we have right now, they can't. We're not without the taxes. You can't. And are we not capable of doing two things at once? I don't know if the young lady stands up and says, we don't need to do anything until we do our comp plan. So we have a board, a city council sitting here and they can't, we can't physically as an elected official read your comp plan without having, can't do two things at once. Yeah, we can. But we're recording the recording the public and our city council, we can't do two things at once. Well, see, the other issue here is, tell me from wrong. Y'all are short staffed. Well, yeah, this man right here doing eight jobs. I can use your maker. Short staff. OK, and we don't have a city engineer anymore. We had a witch hunt for him. Yeah, witch hunt, very well. And so, and then the number two man is now the interim city manager. So we're looking for a city manager and we don't have an economic development director except for Ryan who's wearing two hats. Plus. That's a full time gig. So we need, but you we don't have to have a moratorium to do zoning changes or have a comp plan change. Is there anything in our reading of the bylaws that would give us an opportunity to hold back anything on the moratorium? But we can let our voices be heard. And so back to the summary of Monday night, having the business people and the professional people come to the podium one after the other, it gave everybody on the council back up. It gave the staff support and it educated some in the audience. It brought a different element to the meetings. I've had several councilmen call the text and say, couldn't believe you got all those people here. And I've told all of them, I'm like, well, if you have a nice meeting where there's decorum, people will come. But they loved it. They really appreciated it. And they hope that the business community will come back. And that's what it's going to take. Because you can talk to them. All you want to, you can send emails. All you want to you can send emails all you want to they can might even agree with you But if you're not standing right there putting the pressure on them But the first job is it bliss to advise the people that are frustrated and the City Council that what they're asking for and what they're doing is financially possible. Whose job is that? Who says that? Well, we are the economic development board and the planning and zoning board and that's not their Bayley Whip, right? And honestly, I don't think we have anybody in top leadership at the city who has really has the expertise to deliver that message. You know, they might have the credentials, but they don't have the experience. But I guess that's a missing piece of all of this. When you said to a city council member, you're going to have taxes are going to go up. Your utility is going to go up. The millage somebody has to pay for this. This is not free. It would be great to take a year and have a study. All of us business people, boy, wouldn't it be nice to focus on one thing at a time. But that isn't what life is. We manage multiple things. But the end result is, yes, we can do this. This is the proposed financial impact to the city. We're going to lose whatever hundreds of thousands of dollars of fees. And this is the cost to do the study. And to you, this is going to be the proposed cost to do the fix. They don't okay Debbie Dolbo sat right here the other couple meetings ago and says, well, you know, I'm relying on the city manager because I don't even know the questions to ask. I mean, and that is a legitimate thing for people who this is not what they do. And so when you don't have the city manager filling that role and providing that information, I'm going to ask you that. Do you have a city? I need you guys to speak up. Oh, yes. I was asking if we had a finance. No, but when I go to listen to this, these recordings, I can barely hear you. So you really need to concentrate on the mics This goes on with the city council meetings too We probably need again going back to money We need new software for running these meetings and Definitely are microphones new software or running these meetings and our microphones. Can we repeat your question Kelsey? Do we have a city finance person or director that would be able to present some of the things that would cost lost revenue, cost of redoing comp plan, cost of filling or maintenance for the culverts and swales and all of the things associated with fixed because there's multiple pieces. I think that would, to your point, Rebecca, if somebody stood up and said, this is roughly the cost of what we need to fix. The only way we're going to get it is it's going to impact your local taxes or we need to find other sources of revenue to pay for this. Yes. So reallocate the expenditures of the budget, right? Take something out of the budget that people wanted. But I mean, ultimately, you're right. Everything comes down to money at some point. And we're going to sit here a year from now after the moratorium's almost over and everybody's going to be very frustrated. We just hire consulting firms to tell us how much stuff costs. Yeah. Seriously. You know we have to take a year. Yeah. Ryan's over here not. You know. I mean I haven't seen anybody for five years. I've never seen somebody for finding it. Tell us how much something costs. All I've ever seen is a consulting firm tell us how much something costs and then get a $200,000 bill. I mean, I'm being over, you know, and I'm not asking for an accounting. I'm asking for an estimate. So that's say revenue from development was this in the past 12 months. And so we are giving up this for the next 12 months. Don't might be right. The cost of hiring a consultant to study the edge water. It doesn't take should I probably ask John or Bliss, what's it going to cost to allocate property on or near? I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. Ryan, you already have assessed how many lots we have in Florida shores and how much it would cost to buy those in turn of interretention. Yeah, I mean, to get so typically in a new development with our heightened stand water, or storm water standards, we have about 30% of the site in this storm water. That's what it typically comes out to right now in any of the new subdivisions. If we were to even go to half of that in Florida shores, be about 400 houses. That would have to be purchased, torn dug out and turned into a light. So, I mean, there's, we don't know what the, that capital improvements plan that will really determine the cost of what we need to do. We obviously could quantify, you know, I think part of the problem is, because there's such, been such a a frenzy and staff is constantly trying to like catch up, we can't do anything, it's very difficult to do stuff proactively like go out and because people want the cleaning of the culverts, the ditches done immediately that's what we're focusing on. But I'm not sure if we really even have gotten this is not my department but I don't know if we've even taken an assessment of every block in floor to shores identified okay this person has blocked over this area doesn't have a swell or the swell is insufficient. I don't think we've even had time to do that over those 2200 acres. But if we would never do that, how can we truly know if we're fixing, you know, piecemeal fixing things here and there, the way that system works, we turned mosquito ditches into canals. The road and the swales on the side of the road essentially act as stormwater. The way that works is when it rains, the water goes into those swales. Those swales help with percolation. They're not meant to, yes, there's a certain point where through the culverts at the correct elevation it begins the flow and move into those canals. But they are also designed to accept storm water and infiltrate into the groundwater. It's not meant to completely channel it. And I think there's a misconception that we're channeling all the water. But the way the system was designed is that it's meant to have water sit in perglate. In addition, then at that point, once it gets too high, it then flows towards these canals, which we know that the canals are also insufficient at this point because they overflow. So I think there's a number of things. It's going to be as I testified it'll be very expensive to fix a subdivision from That was part of the term Bohemic swamp that was clear-cutted from the swamp There's pictures in the city clerk's office from a airplane 2,000 feet up in black and white showing This swamp being cut the build floor to shores back in the 50s as a mobile home park. And you know a lot of people say well when I was living there in the 70s and 80s it really didn't flood. Well but a lot of people have testified that during the 70s and 80s there was one house per block. You know there wasn't as many houses that were in there. Today, there's only about, I'd probably say, 160 locks left out of the 2200 locks. Well, I will say Ryan, I agree with that. But I also will say I lived there for 18 years and three years ago. I mean, I agree with dating, you know, not sound like an old man. I'm saying, well back in the 60s, it didn't flood. It, nothing flooded. Well, before, before, which is a range, there's climate change is real. Yeah, but I can tell you that it rained 22 inches before, before, before, before you. I, you know, we have short memories. We, we think everything is a worse hurricane when the last hurricane. So we forget about that one, the next one. You know, I was, that was a lot, but my house flooded worse in the last hurricane than it did when we got the 22 inches, whatever that was, you know, I and or whatever it was. It was three years, well two years. But right, the last one, my house flooded worse. And it was from the backyard, not the front yard. So there's something that's happened in the last three years, outside of hurricanes that is rain related, that is water related, that is development related, that has caused at least the shores. And I, you can't look anywhere else other than walko roadroad and silver ball. And I mean, I guess, I mean, I don't know. I'm not a engineer. But those work there three years ago, and they are there now, and it's never been before. My only problem with blaming ball was, yes, I know the problems first place. We always always try. Problem with it, if you look at the original survey that was provided by Lunar, that area has always been higher than the shores. Before it was, they brought in fill, it was a flit and half higher. So as we all know, water goes downhill, not uphill. So the water truly never drained from 35th in that area. Never drained down. It drained around and then finally got into the ribbons of the wetlands. But it never just directly drained into that swam area. So it's challenging because, yes, there's definitely something going on with the alteration of wetlands and with development. But I would also say, you know, in the last year I've been here, we've approved 20-30 variances for detached garages in Fort Ashore. The hardware. That people have an 1100 square foot house, and they're putting on 1,500, 2,000 square foot garages or driveways. And they're asking for building coverage variances in pervious lot coverage variance. I didn't drive it. So there's a lot of things that there's just a ton of things like the Planning and Zoning Department and the kind of around the recession time stopped enforcing the easements, the utility easements for the canals, the stormwater canals. We allowed people to put defense all the way onto their property line, but there was a utility easement. But now we can't get heavy equipment down a lot of the canals because everyone's got their fence all the way up. And that was a decision to allow people to have more property rights. But the consequence of that is now we can only use these minzy machines to clean the canals. We can't actually get back hose into the canals because we would have to rip up blocks and blocks of fence. And who pays for that because the city approved you to put offense in the utilities. So I mean there's just a ton of little decisions, branching of all these variances. That decision to allow people to put their fences all the way into the utility easement. There's a lot of little decisions that have added up over time have compounded this issue. I still think that we receive 32 inches of rain in a month. It's pretty unprecedented for this area, looking back historically. Plus, you had the tide and the wind to that time period, where it was coming from the east, which wouldn't allow things to flow to, I mean, it was coming, yeah. And it wouldn't allow things to flow out because the water was coming in. For the month of October, I happened to live on Riverside Drive Mine and in the back, we have to walk it with thigh high boots and weed whack because it's kind of wetland. So we and the entire friendly shore, strailer park drains onto our property. Part of here are circle drains onto our property. What comes down the river end of Riverside Drive to the house in front drains. And for the month of September and October, we were not dry until the last week. And I'm not talking about a little bit of water. I have pictures. So it was this point, it never received it. Winds and significant. What was the color of the moon for the afternoons? Oh, the harvors man. That was the blue moon high tide of the year or something. Like that. Was that was the blue moon high tide of the year or something like that? Well, yeah, the sun. Those kinds of things did not allow the same normal amount of drainage and then add 32 inches of rain and a northern push of water. As you say, Mike, I think there are things that have changed, but I think it's a bunch of little things. I don't think there's one. I think Ryan has a good point with the additional garages and pervious surfaces. I think he has a point in the past that we haven't a lot. We love people to take the property all the way back. People don't want to replace fences. And the city would have to do something to compensate people. At the end of the day, it still comes down to fix this problem. The moratorium adds to the pain. It doesn't help fix. It does allow people to do some studying. But Ryan, you're not a civil engineer, I'm assuming. And yet, you understand that 1% retention for that area, along with all the other challenges that have come up in the last 30 or 40 years. And the higher tides and the more significant storms, we've got a storm. And now we're taking it with a can of gasoline and throwing on top of it. We're all going to be sitting here two years from now going, how the hell are we going to pay for all of this? We have no income. I think most of us understand that the moratorium for years is going to get pushed, right? If we can we go back to that? Extended for. I know. I mean, legally, the moratorium cannot be extended. That'll really open us up to challenges. Legal challenges. Now, I can't speak to whether the council will do that or not. The staff will, staff and the city attorney. We've told the council that they have a desire. Majority of them had the desire to do the most that we could legally do, which was a year. And we expressed them that once that year is done, that's it. We can't just re-can't do moratorium.0. You know, it's a year long. We have these the purpose of them. And we have to make these accomplishments because we're not going to have the ability. We would have to legally justify what else, something new we're going to accomplish to do another moratorium. And even then, we run a foul of quite a number of issues. So it's going to be a big push. If we could get back to the moratorium, you haven't said a word. No, no, I'm just trying to understand. There's there's a more Torium discussion and I think you know, there's alignment on that But you know the city is facing this this huge issue and problem That I'm not sure the minds of all of us and the minds of the city council can truly determine what the root cause, what we know are the root causes, but what needs to be done. You know, we talk about getting shovels out there and a couple backhows and we got fence issues and all this. Why, why, if this was my company and I had a huge problem, I would reach out to get somebody to help me figure out what the solution is because I don't think anybody knows what the solution is. That's what the $122 million study is basically doing for us. Okay they're mapping all the drainage in the city which is taking a while and then they're creating a capital of improvements a sit for us to go out and then do and it gives us what they expect the cost to be To make those perfect biggest bang for the bug, right? But that's probably gonna be very expensive that way So Ryan you but otherwise, but yeah, it's gonna be expensive and in order to implement an execute on that You're gonna have to pay for which gets back to the moratorium issue, which is you need income coming out of other places to help pay for that in order to fix that problem. That seems to be pretty common sense approach to this whole thing, right? What is it that people don't understand about exactly that? We've got to get help, we're going to get the help, we have to pay for it, we're going to need to raise revenue in order to do that. And it might mean, I'm going to say that it might mean, your taxes might have to go up a little bit to help pay for this. Or we're going to have to reallocate what we're doing with our budget, which takes me back to... I want to play pickle ball. Yeah, yeah, okay. Okay. You want to play pickle ball. What's more important? You playing pickle ball or fixing the homes of all the people I want to play. I might have to take up grass court. I want to play pickle ball. I think it's important though, but regarding the pickle cell court, I think it would be helpful to. There's a lot of public education both about planning, finance, department. I think it would be helpful to just explain, you know, the pickleball courts are we're using impact fees and we have a grant to pay for the pickleball court. I can get that. you know things that the council should be so there really shouldn't be too much concern about When we're using impact fees or grant money to pay for things when the council should be kind of raising their eyebrows is when we're using general revenue funds That's when they should say hey wait, you know, we need money to fix stormwater We're allocating general revenue money is that the best use because that is limited right these other pots and funds they're so narrowly catered that you can't you can't you can't you regard this even if we had 20 million in road transportation fees I can't go and spend 20 million road transportation fees on stormwater that it just won't be allowed. So. I get to add, and I don't wanna, I don't wanna, I mean, I understand how grants work. I, I'm kidding about the pickleball, but not really. Yeah. Oh, yeah, no, not really at all. Because that's just government. Do you play pickleball? No, well, I do, but I also sell pickleball courts and they ain't $9 million. But I understand how grants work and I get to, that's just government ways. But I'm glad that we got to grants. I just think if there's any more auditorium, it should be spending more auditorium, not building more auditorium. But beside that, you would still think that there would be some way to better spend our grants or maybe... there would be some way to better spend our grants or maybe. Or is there access to federal grant money that help us with the right? Is it just lowering that? Our federal government loves to give away money. I don't know what our grant writers working for. So I know she's been working on a lot of stuff. I don't know. That would be direction. Wasn't there four million that I hear that at this hour? Yeah, I just. And now's and some of the other things. So we have a little bit of a pack. I mean, that should be the act like I looked at the workshop action plan, which I, you know, there's things in there. Like current, you know, You have to do the now. We can't wait, right? Especially if you're more torrent, you have to action plan. So you do the now with the cleaning and whatever we can afford to do and you know, you reappropriate some plans so be able to afford to do that with our with our environmental services or whoever. But then you also you also ought to be able to, should be doing something to forecast this huge expense that we have, either through that's through the finance director or writing grants for it or something because it's not like any of us don't know that's coming. Whether it's $100 million or $12 million or $50 million, we'll have it. I think your 100 is pretty close. So Yamaz will be riding grants for fixing 2200 acres that don't have a store monitor. It is now required with the moratorium for staff to prepare a business impact statement. Ryan, do you all discuss the business impact statement of the moratorium with the council members? Do you know if they even read it or understand it so can Tammy pull up your business impact statement on the moratorium so this was some of the talk that's in a workshop I think what you got was the preliminary not the work shop because I got the same thing you did, Mike. So there were good talking points on Monday. And you're the n deep and access to it. But in Ryan's business impact statement that I read, that is where I took the talking about your utility bill is now $14 and something a month and it's going to go to $43. And that is in the impact statement that he has already prepared, which has already been given to the council. But why isn't that discussed with this model? So that's the biggest thing. Everybody just cares about their own pocket. But that hits their pocket. Well, they care about their own pocketbook, but they don't know what their own pocketbook. Right, Kelsey, they. Exactly. Because I as a homeowner, I wouldn't necessarily think like, Oh, great, I'm coming. They're going to give me money to fix things. People don't make the connection that you're paying for. I care about my own pocketbook too, but I also care if it's coming out of my pocketbook. I think that's the biggest thing to do for this. So we got what we got on Monday. They voted to exclude commercial and industrial, but not throughout the city, only on US one and the park avenue quarter that leaves other industrially zoned areas and other commercially zoned areas out. Okay, so we're picking and choosing but we got that so we have a step but it's not the best. Nobody's asked me but my opinion is the only moratorium we need is the one for Florida shores. That one and get rid of the city wide moratorium altogether because it penalizes other areas of the city and if you read Ryan's business statement right here it is there and so they they made strides or we made strides on Monday. But on January 6th, there is an opportunity for them to reverse course depending on the mob. So it is important that we are there once again, vigilant and ready to thank them for their courage on Monday and encourage them to stay the course and come up with these additional talking points that explain the difference in the utility bill and explain more the money. We each have three minutes to speak and if we each have a talking point that addresses that, you know, I would like to think this I know that the City Council makes some of those decisions but the education needs to go there first. So that when this mob speaks that they say he understands, this is what we're facing as an entire city, not as, you know, 100 homes and I'm not discounting anybody that's flooded. We all have opportunities. So, and Kelsey, I think another point that we forgot to mention was there was Councilman who can't think of his name that reminded them of their authority and their power of approving those zoning things that come in, right? So you don't have to implement a more term when you are the deciding body of whether something goes forward or not. And so they know those areas that are of concerned, they can make those case decisions to approve them or turn it down. And I think it just comes down to education. And not always always. It's easy and fun. But it's less, less, but she makes sure she's not alone. But reality is that she more engaged than a lot of us. We're all in business. You know, I also heard that there's chatter about New Sumerna taking a look at the success of the Meritorium here and having something Jeff that Broward with the county chair is looking for something like this for the county probably won't happen but Surely somewhere else has tried this and I'm guessing it didn't go well So new summer and I had a more Torium fair were very small area in Venetian Bay to fix very small problems So I think more Toriums are not necessarily a bad thing when it's focused when you take 2,200 acres and decide that the entire spans of Edgewater, City of Edgewater should be included in that focused approach, it feels wrong to me. You've broadened that message out to everybody. Businesses that we're trying to attract, even the hospital as we're building. And we have certain expectations of people and community to be able to support that hospital. One thing I was a little, when I was happy that they at least moved from the Parktown Court, or but I think that even sets up themselves even more for litigation as far as you said, this on no-'m no attorney obviously, about picking and choosing because if I was on high business or Galava or even further down and wanted to expand my business, I can't because I'm not on US one or I'm not. I mean, so I guess as you know, as as attorney as the attorney said, you know, there's a reason to, to, I guess, segregate that way because you are in a flood zone or whatever his, whatever reasoning is, but you better have some reasoning. What is the reason that if we're gonna just say commercial and industrial use Grappin of biscuits is commercial industrial use is it not but in that in the Florida shores basin That's why Well there you go, okay All the way down it is on the other side of the tracks. That's all four to shores basin No, we kept it to the west of the tracks. So the city attorney though this is legal for a year. Why would be curious if anybody if another city is done this somewhere else and businesses brought lawsuit forward saying that they the city unlawfully impinged upon their right to earn a profit or to make a point. I can't imagine somebody. There's a couple of case law in here. Yeah, and they didn't work well. Six months or a year is considered much more. Somebody wins a lawsuit against the city. Good cost more. That's why Ryan saying the maximum that at least past studies and information says that you can have that year. In my mind, somebody did six months and very focused on Florida shores, because that's where the problem is. You've just broadened. But in a six months to a year, and most people say that it doesn't put an inordinate burden on that person at least that's what the study says I read a couple more things after seeing the planning and development that was planning at the workshop information so it seems like that's pretty tough it doesn't mean people can't do in the city won't have to defend, of course. But I think that historically many places that year they've done some research and just would be nice to say six months in if we need more. It's to treat that time and push people to think. It's talking about both sides of the mouth, you gotta have more Torium, right? But then someone like John says that he needs to read out of building for security and everything else. And so well, you can submit that plan that could be approved. Well, if that's the case, then why do you need it more time? Like in everybody just submit the plan and let it normally do. Right? I mean, I so I mean, that's what you got to do anyway. You said submit the plans and. The other thing is all this moratorium is bad for you. Right. So when you're recruiting companies, the reputation is a reputation and you know how hard it is to recruit doctors. And then you start talking about moratorium. You know how long it takes to recruit a doctor. So it's the same economic development is a long gain. And the council people are like, well, the moratorium's only for a year. I'm like, no, the effects to undo the damage is going to take three to five, if not longer. And whatever company is looking now to invest millions of capital, is going to skip out and go somewhere else The people who are here here The space coast if you look at the economic development for the whole state of Florida There is a big focus on the space coast right here, which we are here. We are in strategic location. Lucia County, SEVMTC, everybody has been pumping money into relocate here, relocate here, relocation here. And that was, and all okay, and so SEVMTC gave a presentation at the meeting. That was perfect that it was already on the agenda. And it was taken the website to a new level. It was shown and we're in site selection magazine, livability magazine, Florida trend, all this work life balance relocate here and all starting in September we've decided to pull the rug out of everything and have a moratorium. And they are all for it, even the audience clap, but the irony and they don't get it is you can't stop things for a year. You just can't. So coming back to Monday, January the 6th. I hope everybody can be here. Yes. With a talking point. Some kind of financial talking point. To really bring it home and let every one of them know. Your taxes are gonna go up. to really bring it home and let every one of them know. Your taxes are gonna go up. Is it appropriate for a city council person to be educated and talk to the people in the audience so that everything in your case? So why isn't that the focus? Right back up. Okay, isn't it appropriate for this board We're back. Well, okay. Is it appropriate for this board to send out an information of fire? Probably at a cost. I think we have to be applied to. Why do we have to educate the council to educate the pop? Because if it's not being done, it needs I say that rhetorically So we theoretically have a president's They know that I mean it's not, it's not like the council doesn't know that's the option. They just don't want to say it to the population, to the seven people that come in here and bitch every city council. You know, that's always going to be, but the important part is educating the voting members and things is to make sure that, you know, I think Blis said at the beginning of this, take the emotion out, make the decision. It's a business decision. The city of Edgewater is a business, just like all of our businesses. So at the end of the day, the emotion has to be taken and say, yes, I understand. We're going to allocate $1.2 million for a study. We have to figure out what the end game looks like. There's 1% retention in Florida shores. It needs to be at least 15 times that to start with. There's a cost associated estimated at $5,200 million. We have to go plan for that. Not giving a mob a silent treatment to push the problem down the road because I feel like the mud's just being pushed. But they also need to understand you can stop everything for a year. And in that year if you look at the workshop notes you'll get your plan. Then you still have to implement your plan. And in that 15 months you can have a rain storm you can have to implement your plan. If the pay for it. And in that 15 months, you can have a rain storm, you can have a tornado, you can have a hurricane, and that area is still gonna flood. Meanwhile, you have stopped everything in the city. It's still gonna flood. And the future. Yes. So stopping everything is not the answer. So I think we don't need the citywide moratorium. I don't think everybody here understands that. But we've got to come before the council. And in their face, look, I'm in the eye so that they have the support they need to make an informed decision. I don't disagree. I just think that Ryan, if you can help out, I know that that paragraph, but where did you get $14 to $40 for utility bill? That wasn't specific in that paragraph that you put up, Ryan. Yeah, that was based on, so right now the stormwater fee, I believe it's 1450 a month, that simply pays that's revenue, the money that comes in for that equals expenses. So that stormwater fee is right now being completely spent every year. So there's no50 a month for every resident. Yeah. And which I think comes out to something million dollars. And that's based on six mils, correct? No, this is just a flat fee. Okay. The run basically, the way the stormwater fee has worked in the past in my understanding, is that it just runs operation costs. First stormwater maintenance. And that's a lot of work. And that's a lot of work. And that's a lot of work. I've run basically the way the stormwater fee has worked in the past in my understanding is that it just runs Operation costs for stormwater maintenance, but it's never They've never increased it to have like a reserve nor do we have a stormwater impact fee so for the last Since edge waters foundation city of edge's never collected on the new development a stormwater impact fee. So we've only always maintained the system and that maintenance cost has gone up, which is reflected in the bill. But it hasn't been maintained. Well, that's the other thing is that it hasn't been maintained well. But to really, if we're going to do an impact fee study to add in a stormwater impact fee to collect from the 11,000 new houses and whatnot, but immediately where we can generate revenue is by increasing that fee. And to start getting really, unfortunately, I know no one wants to see that fee increase, but we will need money. And so if essentially that fee is not creating any excess funds, we really need to create some excess funds so that in September, when we get this plan, we actually have some money that we can go out and bond with. We can't just go and bond for $50 million. They require you to have some money to show, you know, some money. Yeah, same with our businesses. Yeah. So, from that point of view, that's an area that where the city could generate revenue But that's a sticking point because a lot of the council members have run Unlowering the utility bills. Yes, and so You know my fear is that We'll get to the end of this year. We'll redo the comp in LDC but we won't have generated really any revenue for store-mater and We'll have a little bit more advoluerum tax revenue next year But we won't you know one of the things in that statement I did is that besides the projects that we'll talk about in a second You know there's a delay in advoluerum tax revenue. It doesn't come on The year it's done. It comes on the following year, in most cases. And so if we do a year long pause, it's going to be the lady even further when we're going to see the benefits of that tax revenue. If it comes. The thing I'll say, though, is that because of the moratorium a lot of people are submitting. We got more free yesterday. Well, they're talking it in the four. What do you say? So this is the site plans we have right now, all the subdivisions, and then all the annexation, rezoning, conflant amendments that staff is going through right now. We also received three more, we received two site plans or two subdivisions in a site plan yesterday. Good. Good. You know, and what's under these subdivisions right here and Deering Park is almost 1,800 units. So the good news is at least good and bad because you know the intent of the moratorium too was to help staff have fine but for due process reasons we wrote it in this manner so that those who have submitted can go through the process, but we have a ton of stuff, a ton of work to be done, plus redoing the LDC and the COPLAN coming up. And really say, I'm helping spearhead a new impact fee study so that we have a stormwater impact fee, which was excluded in the last impact fee study that we just adopted and raised our impact fees for sewer and water. And it just has never been looked at. And so there's a lot of things that are going on in the city. The city is growing very rapidly. I think it's important to the public. I know they want this community to remain small, but past councils have already approved This city to be a city of 60,000 people Irregardless if nothing else got approved it will be a city of 60,000 and to say well, I don't I don't want it Well, that's I understand but that's not the reality is, the reality is, the last 20 years, the council has approved a lot of stuff. That just isn't, it hasn't been built till right now. Because we're waiting on the economy. Yeah. And, you know, I think a big thing too, a lot of people don't understand the planning process. There is only one project and it's yardly on here where I've taken them from the annexation rezoning and comp plan. They've gone through the site plan and now the site plan's approved and now it's going to be built. That is the only project that I have worked on, cradle to grave, that has been approved at the city. Everything else, I've just been managing and doing the reviews for, but they were done by prior councils. They have entitlements that were done between 2000 and 2019, 2020, and those are just being built now. And so a lot of what is coming in has already been on the books for years. And it's just now that, and especially with Deering Park starting out there, a lot of people want to be at the City of Edgewater. Now that Deering Park is finally starting. There's a lot of interest in the City of Edgewater with Deering Park's breaking grant. And we've been saying, and I don't know if people have been hearing it, because I say it, and people are like, what? Edgewater is projected to be the largest city in Belushi County by what, 2050, which went back when I started saying that it was a long time. That was going to be a long time. But now, it's quickly approaching. So I don't think this is a lot. I don't know. And the same things will bring that up on Monday. Bring on January. But the same things that happened to New Sumerna. I sat with the current mayor of New Sumerna. Please, I'm very pleased. Right. Fred Cleveland. So he, we had a pro business, Mullen Mullin X, and some of the business people myself with Boston Whaler, and we had citizens that didn't want any more growth. And the reality is, these things were approved 10 and 20 years ago. They were frustrated with what's the big development out by Sugar Mill? The Niche Bay? No. This side. Coastal Woods. Coastal Woods. Coastal Woods. Development out by Sugar Mill. Is there a lot of money? No. This side. Coastal woods. Coastal woods. That was their biggest pain point. And then that spearheaded all of these conversations. But we as groups sat off to the side and explained each others. Because otherwise, the city council meetings were just contentious and argumentative and mob-like as people were frustrated. The reality is, I think slowing down is terrible. I just think stopping doesn't fit your budget. It doesn't fit what we need to do to make sure that we have money. You're going to need support of businesses in this community, not the opposite. And citizens, when they find out that everybody pays an additional stormwater fee that's higher might be very frustrated. I think you brought up a good point, Ryan, that somebody to do the initial assessment of what's going on in floor to shores and what a preliminary, and you can ask that of a consultant, what do we think awater should be? Here it must have projections. Yeah, 400 some houses but if we don't take houses. No, he already knows it's going to be a hundred million for this and 150 million for that. So the so the new public works building which was approved for phase one was that 22 million. So the total build out there, I think it might staff before I had it at 40, but it's around there 40, 43. The new wastewater plant, although 69 million of that will be paid by impact fees, City will still have to bond or find grants for 31. You know, and then we have whatever the stormwater, the stormwater master plan is going to identify as potential fixes. And that, you know, so we're already staring at 50 or 70 million in debt, plus whatever we have to do for the stormwater master plan. And the plant, you know, with what's approved now, the plant's going to have to be done in the next two years. And that is a legal requirement. It's not a, and we don't really want to do that. The state will make us do it. And they will force us to do whatever we need to to expand for our, we've essentially signed a contract with everyone saying we will provide sewer and water. And the state is not going to let us walk away from that deal. We are on the hook. So, you know, it's just, unfortunately, it's going to take a lot of money, and I think we need to have a war trust ready to tackle this problem head on when we finally get that capital improvements plan. And without it, we're going to be in the same spot. We'll have that plan and we'll be floundering because we won't be able to bond for anything or we won't be able to do anything because we won't have any money to do anything And then that will be even more frustrating because we spend a million 1.2 million a taxpayer dollars for a study that we can't even Implement because we don't have the money to we told everyone we needed a way to you. Why don't you just say that? To the council. You can't say Thanks. He is staff. I can only give facts. Those are facts. Yeah. The brick guy down and divided by one two three four five six. There you go. See we already had a witch hunt for the I know I just want to break it up by six of us are talking points because I don't I don't like to speak facts when they're accurate. I don't I don't like to pontificate about random numbers that aren't accurate. So and I don't have access to all the accurate numbers. So. Do you have a direct line to the City Council other than the meetings? You know they call me a lot. Just a little. But they can't beat outside of the scheduled meeting. Yeah, I actually, the City manager and I sit down with the council members a week before to walk through each agenda item. See if they have any questions. And then they call me pretty See if they have any questions. And then they call me pretty much throughout the week with questions. Do they understand the big picture that you just described? I don't know. That's the first thing is that you can see. Well, I'll tell you from my conversations and the answer is no. Yeah, so how do we educate the city commissioners and the mayor to understand what you just said? Because I think that's the crux of all this, right? I think it's the challenging part of politics. Bringing in the facts, data, to what sentiment is and trying to balance what is the common denominator and the facts of the scenario with some people don't want to hear necessarily what the facts are because we are with the city is that across roads right now we are at a tough spot this is a lot of things that have added up to this. It's definitely not one person that is the cause of all this. It is years of decisions that have incrementally resulted to where we are today. But it's going to take great leadership. It's going to take communication. It's going to take education in order to work our way out of the situation that we're in today. That's what it's going to take education in order to work our way out of the situation that we're in today. That's what it's going to take, right? Leadership, communication, education, right? And I get the sense that we don't have all of those things today. And so the question is, how do you at least start down the path of beginning to get the right leadership? The other element of this is the political element, right? Which is whoever sits in this chair and got elected into that role, made promises, build a campaign on something that may be completely indifferent and incongruent to what really needs to be done in order to implement and execute and take the city from where it is with all of its issues, problems and opportunities and get it to where it needs to go. Yeah, that's what it is in my mind. So maybe what we need to do is, and I don't know if we can do this, can you feed us the facts that we can use and put into what we bring to the meeting on January 6th to help educate the city council and the people that are sitting out in the gallery where we are and what the situation is. Yeah, I think because that's powerful stuff that you just said. What you just said is the essence and the crux of exactly where the city is. And I don't think that those people know that and understand it and I'm not so sure the city council and the mayor understands so again get back to we gotta have facts we gotta educate we gotta communicate or we gotta figure out how to get the leadership that can take the city from where it is today with its issues problems and opportunities moving it needs to go to. Does that make sense? Perfect. So we should then figure out how we can take that impression and not compromise your role in your position with the city either, right? But if you can feed us those facts and we can then, can we meet off site and private and talk about what our play. No, we can be here. We can meet here but not off site. Okay. We can have an ad hoc. We can be meeting. Is it public? It would be. Yeah. And we don't get much question. Yeah. They have a conversation about about two meeting clock in the glory. Is there going to be another meeting and December? Special meeting of four of you. You know, no. And the one thing I'll say about that comment that Mike Thomas was holding up the giant packet. Yes, a lot of this looks like a lot, but subdivision site plans, these things take time. The annexation, yeah, I have a lot, but I think most of them will get denied. So it's not here and there. I think the thing though, is that I had four planning and zoning meetings over the last four months. We have tabled items for three months. And so the agenda, it's not that we're, yes, we do have a lot of stuff, but it is we can get through them in a timely manner at hearings, city council. But the reason that last agenda was super long when we were here until 1215, is because the council tabled all the items for three months. And staff is legally required, so when applies and their application is deemed sufficient, and they're going through that process to take them to planning and zoning, and they'll let them have their due process before the board. And so I kept adding items. And but if we keep tableing things, yeah, it's going to build up when you finally hear everything. And so I think the argument that these agendas are too long, we got to do the two council meetings. Make some decisions. Yeah, I mean really we need to what they did. They're made in certain all night. Because staff finally doesn't have to move all those items to the next month, which takes a lot of time. They finally made decisions. And that's what they just need to do. They made to make decisions. Good, bad, indifferent. Yes, no. It doesn't matter. Just you're up there to vote. Staff needs you to vote. The city, the public needs you to vote. And move us forward. And so I don't necessarily agree or disagree. I just wanted to point that out that I think the idea that the agendas are too long. I don't know. It's not a result of what the city staff has done. It's a result of just pushing things down the road. Correct. And I think for those of us that saw the agenda and all the items, I don't know if anybody else, but I just take a look at that and went, there's a lot of stuff that's been pushed because you can't accomplish that much in the last 30 days. So obviously it makes sense. And I think that's just been a challenge over many years kind of pushing things down the road. Well it's also because we've had a lack of leadership. Yes. And really for me when this came to a head is the visioning meeting that most of the people missed in July. And it came out then that an apartment complex down here across from publics. It was gonna be really nice. Apartments gonna have a, everything that the neighbors wanted. Eight-foot wall privacy, also soft scape and all the stuff. The City Council refused to make a vote. So therefore with no vote that went away and now we're going to have live local down there because the guy can do that with state zoning. Now the neighbors and everybody is really up in arms because they didn't want that. But choosing not to have a vote. Just. Yeah, they could have been a three minute deal on themselves and make it a little quicker than 12 o'clock. I can tell you that. Yeah. I mean, it's, there's no meeting shall pass five hours. Six hours. That's crazy. Are you allowed to provide City Council any written documentation when you're up at the podium? Can you approach the podium and hand? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's typically everything's in my staff report And I go I go over here. I go over the information with them. I just watched Kelsey and I do the same thing. I write my thoughts down. I listen verbally, but as I'm listening, I'm trying to make my notes so that it reminds me later to go address something. But if you're handing somebody a piece of paper that says, this is your current military. This is proposed to have to pay for these kinds of things. This is what's going on. At the end of the day, those that wanted to limit any increases in utilities, we should get out in front of the public and say it's not possible. I know I campaigned on that, but I can't promise you that. I can't deliver that based on stormwater, wastewater, moratorium in order to solve your problem. But you can't use the word millage. You've got to just give them your pay in this now and it's going to go to this. Why can't you use millage? Keep it simple, stupid. You thought I would have seen it. But I think it's time to educate. You can say that. It's millage and then below it say in layman's terms $14 to $40. Yes, but I mean you've got to have the but I just think that they have to be they are the voice right they speak for the style and for all of us residents and businesses they speak make sense. speak. Yes, it's not really only practical expertise impact. Typically, unless the council asks me to, I do not. I've gotten sort of in trouble with the council by trying to push them to legislate in the past. So I do not do that now. I just ask their job. Can we do that? Yeah. Of course, the citizens not do that now. I just... That's their job. Can we do that? Yeah, of course the citizens can do that. So now, you know, I don't do anything unless the council asks me to do something. Unless I get a direct request, I'm not going to provide them information beyond what the topic is at hand, because it's just not been really requested or wanted. And my job is to only do what is asked by the city manager for the legislative decisions that the board makes. Can an action of this group, because we're a problem? Yep. And an action from this group be that we request that Ryan sends us a list of factual eP2 points for lack of a better word. Whatever you're comfortable with it. Just a one-page or summary on the financial impacts or proposed or estimates. I wrote the notes. The informational piece of gas. Yeah, yeah that's a good idea. And then the second request is trying to get together for an hour of quick workshop prior to the January 6th meeting that we can at least have a cohesive statement that comes out, whether that's in writing or presented verbally. My concern is that when we talk this way, nobody there pays a lot of attention. And I'd like for them to be educated so that they can speak an educated decision. If their decision is just gonna cost more money and everybody's gonna have to pay, then that's it. But they need to say that. We think this money is coming from a, how to gold at the end of this stormwater canal. There's one more thing. I don't know. I don't know. They're still going to need us to be here to give them back up. And the business community, I think everybody would agree. The business community is the backbone of any city. And they need to hear our voice. And the council needs our assistance and our support and the staff does too. So I think a written statement, the board recommends, unanimously recommends this, and then we still have all of our talking points. And if we can encourage other businesses to come and make talking points as well. Like, businesses affected, you know, in areas that are not going to be in the protected areas. Because we don't need the city what more to it. So I got Ryan to send us the post budget information that we use the comfortable sharing. I'm assuming anything you would have shared with planning and zoning in the public record. And then we as a group to put together a plan to present for the January 6th council prior to that. I think what Blist just said was have some kind of written statements sent to each of the Council members in the mayor. Is that correct? And in advance. So how does that happen? Well, first of all, the six is the Monday. Yes. And the first is a Wednesday. So technically our first meeting would be on Wednesday the first. We don't want to do that, obviously. I don't think the city can do that. Who we meet on the second. We could we could we can be on the okay. I was going to ask that too. Can we meet on the second? Yeah, let's move our January one meeting for the second. Okay. Okay. That puts us ahead of the Monday the six. Eight o'clock. It's right. If you could send us that information, you know, you don't want me to. I do. After New Year's Day, what happened? I was actually I tripping. I know. I never sent it. But legally he has a chance. So Ryan's going to send us the information. What does it mean? They're with us. We're close on the second. So Ryan's gonna send us the information The 31st and the first what about the first? Yeah I'll send you a confirmation We in the river. Okay, that's what we would say. That kids Let them run around and jump to the public meeting So Ryan if you could send us that information I think you should just plan on having a workshop kind of meeting even though it's open to the public but the goals will be to put together talking points For the City Council meeting that we could send to them in writing prior to and then our plan for people to speak during that meeting to reiterate that plan. People understand. Okay. So eight o'clock on Thursday January 2nd. I'm sitting here. Okay. Six is common. What else do we have on the agenda? Well, it's 1030. Yep. 930. She was here at 1130 on Monday night. Yeah. So let's just, yeah. If everybody's in agreement, I'd like to push anything else. We all know your push. Our agenda is usually pretty small because we get through them until at least a January second. So at least a January 2nd, but part of the agenda will be a workshop with the economic board for January 2nd to develop a response to the moratorium. A opinion will vote ourselves on that and then Brian will provide us some financial detail on what the impact could be. It's not exact to the city. All right. Perfect. Is there any other business? Does everybody have a vote on that or recommendation for that? No, I think we have a consensus. All right. Is there anything else? Motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. All right. Perfect. Thank else? Motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. All right. Perfect. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.