you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you You If there's a seat open next year, please raise your hand. Full house, very good. The regular meeting of the City Commission for Tuesday, August 13, 2024, we'll come to order. Please join me in silencing your cell phones. Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Mayor Cleveland. Here. Vice Mayor Farine. Here. Commissioner Hartman. Present. Commissioner Martin. Here. Commissioner McCart. Here. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate that. And now, please, the department Chaplin Sheila Turner, we're off of the invocation. Please rise or remain standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. Let us bow our heads and hearts unto the Lord today. We thank you, Father, for allowing us to be here one more time. We have lots to talk to you about this evening. So we thank you Father for listening and giving us the guidance that we need for this particular day. We also have days of celebration on the agenda as well. We thank your father, amen. And now, Ms. Stephanie Ford, the President and CEO of the News of the Montabee Chamber of Commerce Commerce will lead us in the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation, God, and the people of Israel with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Please be seated. Welcome to the City Commission meeting. This is your elected officials doing the citizens work. We're delighted you're here. We're looking forward to hearing from you. We'll have a wonderful evening together and we'll begin with the City Manager, Mr. City Manager, any changes to the published agenda. the applications on both items. The applications on both items. I sent you an e-mail this afternoon. As soon as I received the e-mail from the attorney. Everything on the consent agenda stays? Yes sir. All good. Okay. So let me add some clarification about the applicant has withdrawn and if the submission is made again within 60 days it comes back to this body. It's a if it is longer than 60 days and it's longer than 60 days then it starts over Then it has to start from scratch which means they have to pay the fees and they have to go to the planning and zoning board and then come back to the city commission Okay, very good. All right. Thank you very much So we'll move on to section 4, which is announcements and presentations. I'd like to invite Chief Feldman and Police Department Chaplin Pete Carter to join the commission This is a sad and transitional night for many of us in the room. Pete, your fellow police department chaplains are here. The police chief and I have conspired to not embarrass you, but to honor you for everything that you have done. And we will miss you sorely as a member of the men in blue here in our city. Thank you very, very much for your service. So I have a plaque that the chief would love for to give you a chance to talk and you a chance to say something in just a minute. The City of Newsomernobiche Police Department congratulates you on your retirement, Pastor L. Pete Carter Jr. Thank you for your loyal and dedicated service to the Newsomernobiche Police Department. Now, as the day dawns and the next day, the city of New York City is going to be a Pete Carter, Jr. Thank you for your loyal and dedicated service to the News Immortable Beach Police Department. Now, as the day dawns in the next chapter of your life, may God's blessings be upon you as you follow God bless you, Pete. Thank you. And now, Chief Feldman, I'm sure has some heartfelt words because you've meant so much to the city and the police department. I feel like we're losing. I know you're still gonna live here and you're still gonna be here, but we are already feeling the loss. All right, thanks Mayor. So I'd be remiss if I didn't take a few seconds to acknowledge peace service to the community and to the police department and to the men and women in the police department. So I'm very fortunate to be able to call Pastor Pete, my friend, he's also my benchmarking my sounding board in the community. Pastor Pete is my go-to as well as some other esteemed leaders in the community when I want to bounce something off him in terms of increasing public safety and he shouldn't surprise anybody that knows Pastor Pete that he will always shoot you straight. So I want to thank all of you for joining us to recognize Pastor Pete. He told me. So I'm going to give the pastor the mic, but we are celebrating 15 years of service to the police department as a police chaplain. Our chaplaincy program is very important to us. They provide services both to our men and women if they're in need of chaplaincy support as well as to the community. So with that said, Pastor Pete. Thanks Chief, thank you Mayor, thank you commission. Thank you City of Newsemane of Beach. And all you in those red shirts, man, y'all did I? All right. But truly, truly we want to thank God. I don't give honor to God for allowing me just this time. I did five years in the county, the 15 years in Newson, Mother Beach, and now it's time to just kind of coast off and finish the remainder of my life serving the people in the manner in which I think can see fear. I want to thank my lovely wife all the way in the back, Angela. Thank you. Thank you, man. Thank you. She didn't grumble in complain when I jumped up at two in the morning running out and I'll be back. Be back when. But certainly, I know every time we went out and we were out there, we were in, you know, we could be potential harms way in. I know her prayers and her concerns while I was out there was being offered up and realizing what we had to do to do. But I just want to say to each and every one of you, thank you for this opportunity to serve, to say to the manager, and to each and every one of you that I've had come in contact with. I won't be gone. We'll still be on the corner, 14, 07 West Enterprise Avenue, the beautiful church of the Bethel Baptist Church. And we will be there serving the community until God sees otherwise. Again, I want to thank each and every one of you to my good friend Randy, to my senior chaplain, I wanna miss out senior chaplain Tom, and to the rest of the chaplain's as well. She'll, I'm sorry, gotta leave you girl, gotta leave you. We came in on the intro, but it's just, it's time to move into do some other things. So again, thank you, God bless you, heaven's smile upon you. I'm giving you. Thank you. I'll compete. Thank you. You have one more. One more. Thank you, ma'am. Where was my full notebook? If Mr. Joe Bunch would join the commission at the podium, I'd appreciate that. Thank you, Joe. the city of Newsomernabeech proclamation recognizing and honoring Mr. Joe Bunch for his service as the General Manager and CEO of the Newsomernabeech utilities. Whereas after conducting a national recruitment process search to fill the general manager and CEO position at the Newsomernabeeach Utilities, Mr. Joe Bunch was selected during a utility special meeting conducted on July 19, 2018. Whereas Mr. Bunch officially began his tenure on November 1, 2018, in his with NSB utilities, demonstrating many examples of dedication, leadership, and focus throughout the past six years, and officially retired on 15 July 2024. And whereas Mr. Bunch, along with the support of the Utilities Commission and his strong leadership team created vision, mission, and values for NSB utilities. Initiated a prioritized enterprise safety program, implemented structured maintenance and equipment programs, and implemented the New Summer and Abed Utilities modernization plans Projects. And whereas perhaps the most valuable to the City of New Suburnabeech, Mr. Bunch was successful in accomplishing tremendously improved communications between the City of New Suburnabeech elected officials, NSB utilities, and the Utilities Commission, resulting in a positive, productive joint meetings held by officials of both entities. Now therefore I, Fred E. Cleveland, mayor of the City of Newsom, Renabeech, to hereby recognize Mr. Joe Bunch for as many accomplishments and dedication to the citizens of Newsom, Renabeech to the City of Newsom, Renabeech and the NSB Utilities. In witness whereof, I have herein to set my hand this 13th day of August, 2024. I've signed it as your mayor and's attested to by our city clerk. Congratulations Joe. I'm going to say thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Bunch, would you like to say something? I'll be brief, but on the heels of Pastor Pete doing work for the Lord and the community. I don't have a whole lot to say other than to thank the City Commission, our commission, Chairman Davenport for allowing me to serve this great community and the residents are here tonight and it's been a fantastic six years and I just want to thank all of you for the support given to organization during that time. Joe, in addition, we'd like to honor you with a city plaque and appreciation for your service and dedication to NSB utilities and Collaboration with the city of Newsom or to Beach. Congratulations on your retirement. We're delighted that you served with us. We're gonna miss you Thank you all. Thank you very much. I want to recognize E from Chavez, the new CEO and General Manager of the Utilities Commission. And our longstanding chairman of the Utility Commission, Mr. Buddy Davenport. Thank you. At this time, I'd like to invite James Halleran of James Moore, our auditor and CPA to the podium to outline a presentation. Welcome, even everyone. James Halleran with James Moore and Company, where you're auditors for the City of Nysmurna Beach. With me tonight, I also have Catherine with us. She worked on the engagement as an associate accountant. I was like to bring out folks who work on the engagement so they can see the final product, what the final presentation is, to kind of teach them as the years go on. So one day I can retire, maybe, that would be a good goal. So a little bit about your audit. This is for the year ended, September 30th, 2023. The financial statement's been said is consider annual comprehensive financial report. So you know, you just got a copy of it, or if you printed it out, it'd be this thick. You guys go above and beyond, which required by the state of Florida. So you got annual comprehensive financial report includes an additional information there on statistical information, as well as some introductory, transmittal letter information and then you submit your annual comprehensive financial report to the government financeors all offers its association to receive a certificate in financial reporting excellence and we were a competent you're going to receive that again this year you have received it for a number of years in the past but in that financial report there are of course your financial statements. Our part is an auditor is providing opinion on those financial statements. And that's the first bullet point there. And you have what's considered a unmodified opinion, as just as the Utilities Commissioner was up here before, that is a part of this audit. We do not audit the Utilities Commission. There's a separate auditor. So you'll see that in that opinion. But it's the unmodified opinion is the best opinion we can provide as CPAs. You're also subject to federal and state single audit this year, and we had no findings related to our work of over internal control over that compliance or any compliance matters. Government auditing standards requires we issue an internal control report over financial reporting and compliance. And this year we have one comment in that report. It's considered a significant deficiency. And that relates to reconciliation of account balances. So as we were performing our audit, we came across a couple different areas where we could not reconcile those account balances to either third party information that we were receiving or to other sources and we worked with staff and propose some audit adjustments in those areas. So we had one comment there, no material weaknesses, that would be a more severe comment than a significant deficiency. So the audit general of the state of Florida also has some items they ask the story port on and any other recommendations or suggestions would be included in that report. This year we had one other recommendation as we noticed your debt service fund was overspent by about $50,000 related to interest for the year. So as a court in the state statute you have 60 days after year end to go ahead and modify your budget so basically to November 30th to do that. So as long as you modify it by November 30th you're fine. That did not occur so that's why that comment is there. You also required to use a separate audit for your CRA. Every CRA that spends greater than $100,000 in a year or has revenues greater than $100,000 would require that audit. And there's also additional reporting that's required. So that's included in the CRA report. The additional reporting is related to contracts over 65,000. It asks about expenditures for subcontractors, basically 1099 contractors. And if you had employees that were hired specifically for the CRA under the CRA's identification number, you'd be required to report information on them as well. Also Florida statutes require us to look at the Florida investment statutes and to ensure that they're in compliance. You guys are in compliance with those Florida investment statutes and as well as your internal policies. And we had no comments related to that testing. So a little bit of the history, I know sometimes I get asked, so how does that relate? This year we had one significant efficiency and we had one recommendation. See, it's over the five year history, as we've been your auditors for the past, this will be our fifth year. In 2019, little rougher, we had two material weaknesses, and you see it gradually got better. And then this year, of course, we had significant efficiencies. I would like to thank for the completion of the audit. You know, your finance director lived left mid audit, basically, in that March time frame. And Silesha Bola was very instrumental in helping get this audit complete at the end, kind of doing that job. And now you have Ken on board, just a little bit. So as your finance director, so that should definitely help out that. But if you get a chance, Silesha is not here tonight. I know she's got training. She went to up in Chicago, but you should probably give her a big thank you for her assistance and get the audit completed this year. As I mentioned, you were subject to single audit. Federal and state single audit is required. If you expend greater than $750,000 in federal state funds. So about $3.7 million in federal awards, you expended the biggest chunk of that 2.5 million. You'll see there is related back to hurricane Ian so that was the major expenditure there and then state projects you had some historic property grants You had the old fort wall and as well as the women's club you had two grants between those two So a little bit on the numbers. General fund balance. So this is what you have left at the end of September 30, 2023. Your equity, your assets, less your liabilities. Get you to your equity. And you'll see about 17 million, you know, almost 18 million this year, last year, you know, 16 million. You know, your biggest change there is, is unassigned as up a little bit. That's unassigned, meaning there's no legal restrictions out there on it. You guys haven't set it aside for any purpose. So that's your remainder is at 10.7 million. So just slightly up for the previous year. The assigned fund balance is primarily made up of incumbrances that carry over the next year, as well as when you perform your budget. You may use prior your surplus for that. So that's how that's segregated out so you know, okay we know we're going to use this for the 24 budget as you're doing your budget this year. You have a amount you're going to use in the 24 25 budget. So when we look at that unassigned fund balance and signed fund balance in your general fund it totals about $17 million. And what we do is we say, okay, how does that relate to your total expenditures for the year and your transfers out? So that rate, about 38.6% or four to half months is where you sit. And I bring that up to say that what the GFWA government finance officer association recommends is no less than two months. Your policy, similar calculation has 25%. And as we all know, as a coastal city, and as I just mentioned about a hurricane happened last year, you need to be above that amount. And that's how I recommend for most of my cities from a pure cash flow perspective in case you need it in those emergencies. So all your other governmental funds, you have a number of impact fee funds, that's where your debt services, your airport fund, all those various different funds, and we break out the fund balance at the end of the year by those same categories. You have restricted amounts. Restricted amounts means external to the city. So there's a state statute or contribution that's restricted, grant money's received in in advance anything like that would create a restriction I mean you can't spend it. So you have about 32 million dollars in your restricted up from the previous year. Most of that is in capital related to restrictions on capital projects. You can only use the money for capital projects. Committed monies for you guys is primarily your your your parking fund and your paving fund. We're set by ordinance and those ordinances said the only place those monies can be used is in those areas You can't you know use that money elsewhere and then you have assigned fund balances which related to transfers of unrestricted monies from the general fund over time that came into that into those funds There is a deficit you'll see of unassigned that relates to the ARPA fund. So your ARPA fund originally had all the cash unusual that you actually got the cash on the money before you expended it, unlike most grants. But then this year you went through in a second, where are we gonna spend those money and you move them out to the various projects that you're gonna spend the money. However, not all the revenue has been recognized in that fund for those grants. So once the revenue has recognized that deficit, we'll go to zero. So mention before, you do have a fund balance policy and it's different for different funds, your general funds 25% and happy report your compliance with all your fund balance policies that year end. So with some other highlights for the year, you do have some leases where you're a less or. The primary ones you have that are big dollar amounts is out of the airport, you know, $9.3 million. You know, last year you had about $3 million. The big increased errors, you had one tenant out there that you signed a long term lease on, where it can be long term if they take the extensions. And what the counting standard says, if you believe that that business will continue to take the extensions, then you record that as at least receivable at a present value amount. And you don't recognize the revenue, but you still have to recognize that the least receivable side of it. In your long term liabilities, only thing new for this year, you drew down the line of credit some more. In the capital projects line of credit, subsequent to year end, then you refinance that whole line of credit as well. No new debt in your business type activities, remember that's just your sanitation fund and marina, so no long term debt out there at all in your business type and your enterprise funds. That pension liability. So I always get asked about that pension liability. So you have three plans that make up that $17. So I always get asked about that pension liability. So you have, you know, three plans that make up that $17.3 million. You have your police and your fire. And you do have a couple of employees who are still in the state retirement system. So that'll gradually decrease over time, you know, once there's less employees, you know, they're in that system still. So see at the, you know, the fire and police, you you know not much for change from the previous years you'll see 2001 it was a lot less. The investment we're still recovering from the investment market. You know there was a significant increase in the investment market in 2001 and then it went back down and you're still trying to recover that investment losses in those police and fire pension funds. And you see I present there the percent funded on those so you're right about you know 73% on both police and fire at the end of the year just so you know still funded very well you'll see the state as well as that 83% you know states mid-enewer from 80 to 95% over the past 10 years funded. So I mentioned two subsequent events so I subsequent to September 30th, we had the refinancing of the capital improvement note for $18 million. And then there's the approval for the guys would sell the women's club. I know that hasn't closed quite yet, but that would, you know, prove for $225,000. Harper funds, you know, since that's a rather large amount, you got in initially there. Only recognized about $250,000 of revenue related to that, but as I mentioned before, you did transfer out a lot of the money to where the projects will be. So as that's money gets spent, it's already in those funds to be able to be spent. So I know I met my most view on Monday, but I mean, we're happy to take any additional questions you may have. Any comments or questions for Mr. Hallerun? For the viewing public and for those of you here, we went through this presentation each of us separately over an hour previous. So this is not the first time we're seeing this, familiar with some of the things and we will be taking for action those deficiencies that were noted. Thank you, James. Appreciate it. All right. So before we do the City Manager's report, recognizing that we would have a capacity crowd, we employed two City managers tonight just to make sure we got it right. So you'll recognize Mr. Rashid out there there the far right next to him is City Manager Elect Kevin Calper. Kevin welcome to the City of Newsome on a Beach we're delighted to have you here. Give you an opportunity to say hi howdy if? Well, I never pass up a moment to speak. Sir, thank you. My wife, Jenny and I are thrilled to be here in New Smirno Beach. Happy to be in a community that is clearly engaged, a community that loves their beach, loves their neighborhood, and loves their city. And you'll hear me talk a lot about loving your community and giving to your community so congratulations to you all on that. I've had an opportunity to spend some time with you all this week and spend time at the various departments and wisdom staff and tour facilities very impressed with the professionalism of the staff and the quality, the high quality of the public services that those dedicated men and women provide to the citizens. So looking forward to my long tenure here and rolling up my sleeves and getting to work. So thank you all for being so very welcoming. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you, sir. We're delighted to hear. Thank you so much, Kevin. We're looking forward to it. Mr. City Manager, your report, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you. For the sake of time, I will be brief and quick. On the City Manager report, which included in your package, I just want to make the commission aware that we continue to meet with the advent as well as true health regarding the homeless issue. So true health, they have a mobile unit that they come twice a week to noose mama that to address some of the mental issues and other medical issues that they might have. So this is work on progress. We will continue to do that. Also, just wanna let you know that we have interviewed for an economic development director. As you know, this is an important position for the city. One of the comments in the public participation at the meeting on the 25th, someone has mentioned that they were standard deaths. We are using jobs for the purpose of the Indian Park. Now, as you know, one of the goals for the City Commission and the Strategic Plan is to diversify the tax base. And in order to do that, you need to have some areas for businesses to relocate to New Smama. I don't think the city could afford to continue to provide the level of service that the city needs and just depending on the knowledge that it's come in from the residential area. Right now, the percentage that you have is 83% to about 17, maybe 10% in terms of the commercial. For somebody to relocate, you need to have a space for them. So, during park, that we were able to get about between 500 to 600 acres, where the idea is to have a padrity where when they come in, the most difficult things for any project to come in to Nusmona is the approvals and meeting all the requirements in terms of the summer, or the environment, and so forth. So if you have a project like that where you could afford to do this, have everything ready for them, it makes it a lot easier for the city, for the residents, and for the companies who are relocating to the city. So that's important to have that economic development director. So we have interviewed and we were lucky to get the economic development director for the city of Edgewater. She knows all the stakeholders in Valusia County. She is a member in the team Valusia already. She knows all the staff in Valusha County. She will be a big asset to help our new city manager on board. So she will be starting on September the 3rd. We conducted the public meeting regarding the noise issue at the airport and I want to commend Commission McGurk. He conducted a very well public meeting on a tough issue to discuss. So thank you Commission of McGurk for conducting such a good meeting and I think staff will follow on some of the recommendations that were suggested by the consultant and by the citizens. It's going back to the airport advisory board and then from there they would probably come back to the commission for the volunteer recommendation that they have. So that was a tough issue to handle and thank you, Commissioner McGurk. The demolition of Smith Street, this is the property that the city owns on Smith Street, where building maintenance have relocated to maintenance up, the maintenance operation director, met with the utilities on last Tuesday, we will be demolishing that building, hopefully, within the next two weeks, following by an environmental assessment phase one. And then we'll bring it back to the commission whether they want to sell the property or lease it. In the public participation components, we had 10 participants, six of them they were spoken against the parking garage. The other four, they were talking about different items, they wouldn't any actions needed to respond to these comments. So I'll be more than happy to ask any questions. Mayor or the commissioners if you have. Thank you sir. Any questions about the city managers report. Thank you very much sir. Appreciate that. Like to move on to public participation. I haven't seen as many red shirts since Pentecost Sunday. One more for lots. I need to have the assistance in the image of to bring the issue about Venetian Bay Parking. Ah, he wants to talk about that. That's good. Okay, this is about Venetian Bay Parking and the announcements that were sent out earlier. Yes, sir. We received the same letter that was sent out to the business community and the Venetian Bay community regarding the Geosam proposed parking program. We are in the midst of reviewing that, communicating with Geosam. We'll be accepting comments from members of that community, both residential and business members, and we'll be setting up a meeting shortly with the geostaff team to address any issues that may have and make recommendations to them on their program. Thank you. Any questions for the assistant city manager? I have one for clarity. Will the new Sumerna Beach Police Department be enforcing that parking? No, sir. Thank you. They're on to do that. Appreciate that. Thank you very much. Okay and now on to your why why why many of you are here and in the red we get that and so before I give you the rules set if you are here to speak on the of the structure proposal. Would you please stand? Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Okay, we recognize that you are here in mass. So thank you very much for coming to represent. Please be seated. The public participation is a monologue, not a dialogue. And it is your opportunity to talk about any topic you want to and let the City Commission understand how you feel. If you have an accolade for a city employee, if you have a challenge in your neighborhood, if there's anything at all that you'd like us to know, this is your opportunity. Again, we're not gonna be answering questions, but we will be listening intently. If there is need for follow-up, both the city clerk and the city manager will take your contact information down and get back in touch with you. We enjoy a civility in New Samurna city work like no other city. So please, I encourage you not to cheer or clap or boo or hiss. This is a private conversation between the speaker and the commission. And so it's not a spectator sport other than to sit and listen. So please, for the decorum of the room, please keep quiet while people are speaking and after they're speaking so we can get through the list of folks that need to speak. When you come forward, offer your name, please, and your address. The green light will come on. You'll have three minutes. When the yellow light comes on, you have one minute, and then you'll be done when the red light comes on. With that said, would any member of the public like to speak? Please come forward. Good evening. Mayor, vice mayor, commissioners, and staff. My name is Sharon Glen. I'm here on behalf of 1111 and 1109 South Atlantic Avenue and also here on behalf of the SAVE our new Somerna Beach Task Force. Everyone that is in this room today, I think some people got confused who is in red, who is here in opposition of the proposed tax amendment of the land development regulations and the proposed structure of 1300 South Atlantic Avenue? Could I ask you to please stand because I think there are people who are a little confused beforehand. Okay. Thank you mayor Please be seated So I know this is not a spectator sport, but I do want to say thank you to every single person that has been involved in our cause. We are still collecting signatures for this since the applicant still does have 60 days to bring this back on the agenda. As of right now, we have collected over 750 signatures. We have someone here collecting signatures. And if anybody does want to for the record, they can email us at savernsb at gmail.com. So I did want to say that we are grateful that these items have been removed from the agenda, items 9D and 9E, and we hope that they were withdrawn in good faith. We are watching if it does get put back on the agenda. I did want to mention, bring these points up. One thing that I think sometimes gets forgotten is the that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think that's why I think ordinances, it is also for the people. So these should be remembered because a lot of these projects may sound good, it may prevent, like, give you guys some revenue, but at the end of the day, it doesn't help us. So with respect to the pose to tax amendment, and I'm just going to address it really quickly, this was a complete disservice to us as a people. The P&Z board heard all of I believe 27 minutes and then the one person that did want to speak was brushed aside. Things that affect the entire city of New Samarna Beach should have public involvement as you are with other land development, regulation amendments. We have been involved. I think that this is just such a great opportunity for us to come together as a city, for us to roll up our sleeves and change things that no longer work and change things that need updating such as our notice requirements, which are sorely out of date, having 150 foot notice for a project that affects the entire city and having a notice on one journal that maybe not everyone's going to read is not something that works for everyone. So I probably haven't gotten the ability to say all my points but I do want to note we have a comprehensive plan we have a strategic plan you can't make exceptions to the rule all the time if you go on a diet if you make exceptions all the time you're're never gonna accomplish your goal. So. Thank you very much. I appreciate your words. Thank you for talking. I appreciate you talking. So thank you. But I have a lot of. You're all done. That's 11 seconds over. Thank you. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Come on, guys. Cindy, Thank you. Good evening and welcome, Mr. Cowper. I've communicated with several of you about the proposed Text Amendment to define the commercial far. A definition that we know will apply to all commercial property across the city, not just this applicant's garage and not just beachside, all of Newspaperna Beach. The amendment focuses entirely on what to exclude from the FAR and it's a lot. A responsible change, I feel, in the definition and numeric value to be used for FAR, should be based on the combination of all the factors in our ordinances that are there to prevent undesirable mass scale and development that could erode our community identity. This text amendment as it was proposed in the disnown moved off a couple of months doesn't do that at all. So if and when it should come back to you please keep that in mind. You're charged with making some really important decisions to protect the charm that all. So if and when it should come back to you, please keep that in mind. You're charged with making some really important decisions to protect the charm that everybody likes to talk about in Usemerda. But there can be some pretty grave impacts if we base our far definition on large metro cities. And I overheard conversation at the May P&Z about the applicant's definition, having been successfully used in other towns, naming specifically Orlando and Daytona. But the question that I ask and I hope you ask yourselves is, do we really want to be anything like Orlando and Daytona? These are not cities, in my opinion, for us to model. In the 2020 census, Orlando had a of 307,000 plus people. Daytona, 72,000 plus, and we were at 30,000 plus. It's quite arranged there. If we want to mimic a smaller city with a positive image, a city like Winner Park might be a good choice, or a city like that with the beach side atmosphere. So for example, Winner Park had a 2020 population of 29,000 plus. This downtown is more urban than ours is, and they don't have our beach side, but it has a very human scale and community identity that I think we can easily relate to but there are other good models that I can share with you if you like What's important about that particular city when I looked at it? It has parking mobility and circulation strategies and Integrated plans to support those strategies and this holistic infrastructure existed before they dove head first into parking garage waters. So please don't allow big city practices to dictate what's appropriate for our lovely town. I hope you will pay attention to the fact that the proposed definition is a matter of convenience for the applicant. And that the pod in many instances trap tramples all over our other ordinances. Thank you. Thank you, Cindy. Appreciate your comments. Good evening, Stephanie Ford, President CEO of the Southeast Volusia Chamber of Commerce, 115 Canal Street. Ashton Muscov CEO of the New Smirnoviche Board of Filters, 725 West Canal Street. Welcome, new city manager, Kevin Calper. Great to have you. We're looking forward to working with you and onboarding you in the community. Thank you, Colled for your service and all that you do. Thank you commissioners and mayor for your service as well to our community. Ashen and I from the Board of Reelators are here to invite you to our Hobnob event that we're hosting tomorrow night at the Brandon Center. It's from 5 to 7 p.m. It's free to attend. Many candidates have registered to be there. Thank you to those that have registered to come out. This is a great opportunity for the public to meet and greet and also get to chat with the electeds. We want to encourage everybody to show up to the primary election on August 20th. We also want to say thank you to the city and Mr. Rashidad for supporting our leadership program this year. We have Phillip, Nunziata, Corporal Alan Washington, Heather Kid, and Jonah Powers from the City of News Mernavige participating. The leadership program starts this week. We're very excited to have them anything else, Ashton. Thank you, you did it. Yeah, okay, good. Great, thank you all. See you tomorrow night. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate it. Thank you all. See you tomorrow night. Thank you ma'am. Appreciate it. Thank you, Stephanie. Thank you, Ashton. Is there any more public participation? Doug Mullen, 918 East, first avenue. I dug right ahead. How are you all? Thank you everybody. Case numbers, ZTA dash 123 and put dashUD-2-2-2-3. I have 90 in agenda, opposed by the applicant, which has been removed. But this is not within the spirit of a PUD. Necessarily to protect the public health, safety, and general welfare. There are over 600 motor vehicle accidents in the area from municipal of our east second avenue. And South Atlantic Atlantic to tonight, within the Saxon driving industry as well. Over 150 of motor vehicles act as with injuries, according to the New Sloan Beach crash mapping data. So everybody, intersection is over 220 motor vehicle accidents and over 30 injuries. What is the acceptable number of injuries within a 10-year period? Zero. We cannot have any more citizens within New Slowness Beach injured, permanently maimed, or dead. Why are there so many motor vehicle accidents in this area? The scenario with heavy traffic, poor visibility with a curve in the road that turns completely from the east to south, at 3rd Avenue and 4th Avenue. Consider the disproportionate increase in property damage and injuries. To emphasize how dangerous an intersection this is, left turns are not permitted from fourth and fifth avenues to turn south onto alignment. It was changed due to multiple accidents limited visibility with the curve road and heavy traffic in these intersections. The reservoirs of New Sumerna Beach do not want a structure like this in the area. It does not align with the city of New Surfered Comprehensive Plan. It would endanger drivers, pedestrians and residents. It will be an area which will attract drug users. Use hyperdermic needles everywhere. Drug dealers, weapons and violins as well as a perfect location for the homeless. This is also a fatal funnel for law enforcement officers and all first responders. Car fires, accidents, pedestrian fatalities, parking garage crimes, as mentioned in the LDR, FAR, etc. Stay within the zoning of B2. It was placed there to meet the concerns of the area. Do not turn new smart abeach into Daytona Beach. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your comments. Good evening. My name is Ben Hague. I'm a relatively new resident in New Smirner Beach. And what brought me to this community in the first place was the quality of life. This is basically for residents of quality of life issue. I grew up in New York City. I know what high rises are, and I know what they bring. Every morning, I live three blocks from where this proposed project is going to start. Every morning, I walk out on the beach, and I'm amazed at what we have to offer. And I don't understand why we want to change this. The basic character of our community, we don't allow franch we want to change this, the basic character of our community. We don't allow franchises on the island. It's a paradise. Why would you want to change a paradise? And that's from my heart as a new resident. And I would like to yield the rest of my time to this young lady over here. Thank you. You can't do that. I can't do that. Okay, then you're going to have to listen to me get a little more wordy. It's, you know, today I got up and I looked at sunrise and I walked to where I get my pharmacies, my prescriptions at Walgreens. And you're thinking about putting a five-story mall, a shopping mall there. Why would anybody want to do that? Why would anybody want to do that to our community, to our residents, to our quality of life, to what people want to come to New Smyrna 4 in the first place. This is, you know, you got to ask yourself. I mean, it's a question of money. Everything is dollars and cents. I had my own business as well. I like everybody to make a buck, but not in my expense. Not at the community's expense. Not at our neighbor's expense. I think we need to look at this really carefully. It's a quality or life issue beyond anything else. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Could you please be here? Order. Order. Hi, I'm Sue Trasquez. I'm at 1300 Hills Street. I've lived in my place since 2005 and I'm a full-time resident. I want to point out some documented facts that concern me about this new construction. The National Crime Victimization Survey indicates that one in ten property crimes occur in parking lots, and 7.3 percent of violent crimes occur in parking lots. Comparing the February 2023 crime statistics for Daytona Beach and New Smurnda Beach based on these statistics. Daytona's total crime rate is 55% above the national average. While New Smurnda Beach rate is 56 below the national average, this is a statistic that we should continue to achieve rather than to follow Daytona's trends. By installing a five-level parking garage, we risk an increasing crime. I find this very worrisome, not only for myself, but my fellow female neighbors. According to demographic data from the Neighborhood Scout website, it estimates 24% of the residents in Coronado, South, Causeway area, our own pipe to force women. This does not include widowed or single women. This data indicates our neighborhood is a very vulnerable population. Predatory criminals frequent these parking garages because there is inadequate lighting. Our quiet and unmaned. Orlando's parking garages recently had two incidents. One in January, 2024, where a father of five was killed in one of the graces. In May 2024, a woman was raped in the UCF parking garage. Also, Orlando recently implemented a new garage rules to crack down on safety issues. On Friday, Saturday and Sundays, drivers cannot park in the city garages after 11 p.m. unless they're permitted to be there. These incidents indicate our landowner is experiencing safety issues. Although these crimes are in Orlando, we know our visitors come from Orlando. Thank you. I remember we were once known. Thank you very much. I appreciate you speaking. You're in Orlando. Thank you very much, Dan. I appreciate you talking. Thank you very much. Welcome, my friends. Hello everybody. I first want to say thank you so much for all the passionate people from News Mournabeech in red saying to you all, no to this parking garage that doesn't meet the scale of the neighborhood. I want to thank the developer for withdrawing his proposal. And we are going to watch you. We hope and pray that you will do something within the current B2 rules and restrictions that are on this property, which mean 35 feet high, 35 foot setbacks. As you all know, that's maybe not everybody knows, but I'll just give you a quick education. The proposal was for a 64-foot high building. Instead of 35-foot setbacks at Atlantic, it was 17 feet, the size at 10 feet, and 7 feet at the Walgreens. This is a monster building. This is like putting a big cruise ship in your new store in a beach marina with little boats. It was that out of scale and that exaggerated. So we won't go into all of our bullet points today, but we do want to keep in front of you. And we also want to offer as the group that we are here to help and help you with responsible development. We know you're all busy, everybody's busy. But you have Newsomerno Beach people here that are passionate about Newsomerno Beach. We want to keep the scale and look. We realize that developers own properties and want to develop it. We just want reasonable development that fits into the scale of the current neighborhoods. And we don't feel like we are asking for much. I did forget to say my name, Gaila Leslie. Sorry, 1306 Hill Street. I live three houses from Sue who is on the corner. Then we have Mark. Then we have my neighbors, myself. We have a new house being built, and we have one in the corner, Marsha. And then we have five houses on the next road. We have all kinds of custom built homes in our area. Parking garage, I'm sorry, just does not fit. There's so many great uses, and so we are here to help. So let's work as a community and make Newsommer and a Beach beautiful please and sorry you didn't get the red shirt no memo. Thank you very much. Thank you for your comments. Thank you ma'am. Oh you see the picture right? Thank you very much. Appreciate that. Hi, hi Susan Coakley 1402 Sutherland Avenue, Newsmerna. The developer's initial proposal states that this five-story parking garage would provide much needed parking by providing 101 dedicated spaces out of the 300 in some for public use. This need is not a valid assessment today considering the lack of data regarding utilization of the new third avenue surface lot. My daily observation including photos confirm that this new surface parking lot has been grossly underutilized. Even at high tides, weekends, and fourth of July. The dire parking issues facing NSV are primarily focused in the Flabberg Canal Avenue areas. I'd like to know what data the city has that there's a major parking issue on third and fourth avenue. Yes, traffic gets backed up. The cars or folks are driving onto the beach on the 3rd Avenue ramp. But how does that equate to a parking problem? The 3rd and 4th Avenue businesses, the shopping center, restaurants, and bars, they already provide parking for their patrons in this area. I'm requesting that you do not approve the rezoning puddle request, especially when they come back in those 60 days. I plead that the commissioners and mayor honor their oath of office to preserve the scale and character of our beach town. The footprint of this project grossly exceeds the scale of our neighborhood. A residential area is not the appropriate and safest location for our first public parking garage, especially a five-story one. We acknowledge that this project and the approval of a pod would set the precedence for future development in NSV. So let's get it right the first time. At the May 6th Planning planning and zoning, Mr. Thomas Bean expressed his concerns over the scale of the project. His questions were never addressed as to what was the justification of this excessive use. I believe the planning and zoning board did not consider the impact on existing homes and businesses. I'd like you to vote no to the Pud request when it comes back around and give you some homework. And here are the recommendations to include stakeholders in the decision-making process. There's been no community meetings or workshops about this project. Area residents, we support the building on this lot. But according to the current coded zoning, it's more reasonable. When we bought our properties around there, we knew what it was owned. You need to conduct in-depth interviews to ensure that the ramifications from any development on this lot do not create an intolerable environment for residents and businesses. In summary, it is disconcerting and suspicious that the city and the PZ board recommended the approval of this project so swiftly and carelessly. Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate your comments. Order. My folks. Just ma'am. Yeah, everything she said. Thank you for your comment. Go ahead and go right ahead, Audrey. Your name and address, please. Audio-Rickr, 815, Willard Street, News and Murder Beach. This is a concern the parking garage to. And I know that the developer has withdrawn 90 and 9E for the 4724 and 4624, but that doesn't mean they can't come back with it as our city manager did mention. And there's an old adage. He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day. So let's just see that that's probably what's going to happen. So what I want to let you know is that this is ridiculous. There is a five-story gargantuan parking garage to go on a place that is 171,000 square feet and 65 feet tall when it's quadruple the size of the allowable footprint and also, almost double the allowable height. It's directly across the corner from the only other entrance to the beach. You got Flagler Avenue, which is always backed up, and then you have this, which is backed up always too, going all the way down South Atlantic Avenue. If this does go in, you're going to have cars backed up all the way down South Atlantic Avenue, blocking the hotels from having their patrons leave, blocking residents to be able to leave. And what about emergency vehicles? What happens if there's an emergency? How is anybody going to get there? They can't get there if their roads are completely blocked at a standstill. I work in Daytona Beach and I work at the Ocean Center and I park at that garage there and it's backed up 15, 20 cars all the way down North Atlantic Avenue, all the way down to Peninsula and that's with officers directing traffic. Let's not forget the transients. I apologize for this and I know I sympathize with their plight, but it is a transient hotel. There's defecation, urination, trash, and crime. The biggest crime in the all-up day tone of beaches within five blocks of that parking garage. If you propose and let this happen, we have parking issues now, we'll have them even more. This is basically a precedence that would be set for future building and if you have more building, you have what? More traffic. More building, more development equals more traffic. If you guys approve this, it's really on y'all's hands that you have really started to ruin the beautiful charm of New Samaritan Beach why we're so special and why so many people come here please don't let this happen and thank you thank you all to appreciate your comments thank you I'm going to go to the office. Good evening, sir. My name is Christopher Peppelin. This is my wife, Marsha. I do want to compliment the city and the developer on the pretty parking lot just north of this project, which is on the beach side. This new project. The palm trees is very nice. But Marsha and I live at 1310 Hills Street. And that is directly across on the southeast end of this projected project, right across Atlantic out of the avenue. I know our neighborhood and several hundred other citizens have signed a petition against this rezoning and development. Isn't this owning to protect us in the environment? I've been told by many that you cannot stop big money projects. It's real difficult. But I've lived and owned property in Miss Samurna for 70 plus years. I've lived in that and bought owned property in that neighborhood for 70 plus years. I've always wanted what's best for a Miss Samurna Beach. I was a lifeguard on the beach before the with the city before the county got the lifeguard core. I was one of the first surfers here in New Samaritan and worked involved in that with the Samaritan Safari Club. But I'm looking up my notes here. I'm very concerned. We're very concerned about the zoning being changed, allowing much larger projects, even though citizens, a lot of citizens really don't want them and everybody says the same thing. You don't have a chance against big money and can't we do better but thank you for consideration. We pray that you folks make the right decision for everybody in the whole community of Nusomer to be because we all love this town. Thank you. Thank you sir. Appreciate it. Please. I just want to say one thing real quickly. You know it's a nightmare with the traffic anyway and it compound that is like a double nightmare and like the lady said with the charm being taken away we don't want to see the charm being taken away. We don't want to see the charm being removed. We don't want to see this compounded traffic blocks and blocks and blocks and then with our emergency vehicles they couldn't get to us if we had an emergency. We if we call 911 You know they know where we are but how are they going to get to us? So please reconsider this project. Thank you Thank you guys appreciate the comments the city of the city. So, I would like to thank the city of the city for the city of the city of the city. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Appreciate the comments. Folks, as we have another speaker come up, let me take a pause for a second. We're hearing the message. It's clear to us. We get the parking, we get the scale, we hear the things. If there's somebody with something new to offer, we'd love to hear it. So it's public participation. We're happy to hear it, but we get the message. We've heard it. We'd love to hear something additive to your current argument. And it's a good one. Go ahead, sir. My name is Doug Everson. And I'll go through about, I'll cut this down to real simple. I'm a resident of Second Avenue, New Sumerna Beach, Florida. I've been here for over decades. But what most people don't know is for over 30 years, I was vice president of one of the largest greatest companies in the country. I worked with some of the country's largest engineering and legal firms over my last 30 to 40 years. I'm responsible for a number of innovative and patent-edrainage products which bear my name in some of the systems that are around here. I invented. What I do know, from doing this for 30 years, even though I'm weighing into my 70s, is that typically companies within the gender hire the best professional engineer and sources they can to make a case for their product and or project. I know I did it. that they're then reviewed by a customer staff only to determine if it meets need, budget, and local code. And I tell you something, engineering isn't perfect. Systems and designs fail all the time resulting in devastations and significant losses. News and Murder Beach has a drainage problem. Statistically, I'll give you all kinds of reasons statistics but were rated by the country and by most major statistics with a 70% to 90% chance of flooding beach site. We rely on a small number of permeable soil or a small sponge that catches all of our water. And if you think drainage is the answer it is and it dumps into the undercoast and hydraulic pressure will push it right back in so you're filling the sponge from both sides. I've played this game. I'm 90% convinced that this guy is going to come back with a revised provision. And in my experience, those who want it will find a convenient time to vote in favor of it. And I'm really sorry that we're not doing that today because with an election coming, we're left to guess who would not vote for it, or who would vote for it, and make our decisions on that particular issue. You see a fraction, I was out there for hours collecting signatures. You see a fraction of what conversations I've had over the last couple of days. Some of you that have been counseling for a long time, that they've supported you, myself included for a long time. This is a breaking point for us. So I'll let you to consider how you're going to vote. Thank you. Thank you very much. Order. Okay. Clearly please say your name and address so the city clerk can get it and if you can't catch it Kelly just say it. I'll do it again. Yes ma'am. Angie Beretta-Herman and I'm going to have a different topic. But before I ask my question, I do want to express my heartfelt thanks to the commission and mostly to all the people here who expressed sympathies to a low rise city, to needing permeable spaces, to having and saving the charm. And from a historic preservation perspective, I'm hoping that all the people in the audience will continue to fight for historic preservation, which is really what we're talking about here, about keeping our charm of our city, because my question has to do with the Women's Club. I'm asking, what is the status of the Women's Club? As all of the commissioners know, we have been discussing this piece of property for over a year. The decision was made to sell the property. We did have a buyer, but it seems to be taking forever to close the deal. And I have two major concerns about the delays in closing the deal. One is the continued deterioration of the Women's Club. I have a suspicion that the roof is continuing to leak, which means that building is continuing to deteriorate. So every week that we delay passing this property into the hands of the buyer, so that the roof can be repaired is another deterioration of the building. And I worry whether or not our buyer will decide that this is something he doesn't want to do. My second concern is I have taken the time to talk to the neighbors and the neighbors are very concerned about the property, but their concern is an interesting one. They do not like having an of what appears to be in a band and building on their street And so I ask you please to move Quickly to close the deal and move this building into the property into private hands as Determined by the your devote and get that done as quickly as possible. Thank you. Thank you Dr. Herman appreciate your comments. You be ma'am. Hello, Sandra Smith, 810 East, 26th Avenue, New Sumerna Beach. I've provided you also information regarding zoning requirements throughout the city. I sent that out the other day and the city clerk provided it to you. But I do have some comments regarding process rather than specific to the site. As we all know, this site is in need of numerous variances. I looked at all the zoning districts, commercial and industrial in the city. This structure could not be built in any of these zoning districts, commercial or industrial without some variances being provided to the site. And having sat on the plain zoning board, I'm aware of the criteria for variance. And that criteria, the variances are granted when they are consistent with the overall intent of the code and will not be injurious to the surrounding properties or detrimental to the public welfare. The applicant must show that a variance is necessary due to topographical or physical conditions that exist on the site that are not a result of the actions of the applicant, that the literal interpretation of this code would result in unnecessary and undue hardship on the applicant and that the variance is not granted based upon some economic considerations. There are no physical conditions that prohibit development of the site as it has already been developed. There is no unnecessary and undue hardship. The applicant has self-created their own hardship and need for variances due solely to their proposed uses and their own site design. In general, a PUD agreement provides an applicant flexibility to some of the city's design standards, but is also to provide benefits back to the city by meeting some of the city's goals, such as establishing open areas set aside for preservation of natural resources, creating usable and suitable located civic spaces, recreational facilities, open spaces, and scenic areas, ensuring compatibility with adjacent neighborhoods and effectively reducing potential adverse impacts, providing for mixed use developments such as commercial nodes, town centers, and office parks. The applicant does none of these things. The city's goals are not included in this application. It serves only the needs of the applicant and is not mutually beneficial to the city at all. The applicant is using the PUD process to spot zone this parcel. Spot zoning is defined as a small parcel of land that is allowed to be used differently than surrounding parcels. Spot zoning usually benefits the owner of the land to the decrement of the surrounding owners and is often illegal. The applicant is enriching themselves at the expense of the city, the surrounding properties and the community. Please deny this request that would allow lower development standards through the use of the PUD zoning process. The City of New Sumerna Beach is a destination. Those who want to be part of the community should strive to provide development over and above the city's minimum standards and not seek to subvert those standards. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Appreciate your comments. Thank you. Oh, and I'd also like to request that should they come back with their application that the city posts the public hearing notice on the property and all three roadfronts. Thank you very much. Appreciate that, ma'am. Good evening, Paul Schleckman from Locust Street. On December 16, 1967, my grandfather's 65th birthday, he retired, sold his house in New Jersey, moved to 914 Locust Street. After my grandfather's death in 1990, the home passed on to my father, and my parents became New Sumerna Snowbirds. The home now belongs to my sister and me, and we just finished a major reconstruction. My sister and her husband are now permanent residents. Zoning is a planning tool away for the city to express a vision of its future and who encourage the development of desires. Property owners exchange development rights for protections against noxious developments next door. In rebuilding our home on Locust Street, we worked within the constraints of New Sumerna's R2 zone as the result is a beautiful home that fits with the character of the community. I maintain my residency in Arlington, Massachusetts a five square mile town with a population of 46,000 residents. I'm an elected member of our representative town meeting, the legislative branch of our government. In that role, I have voted for and against changes to our zoning by-law over the past 28 years. Zoning is an exercise in harmony. Good zoning boundaries reflect gradual changes. You see this in New Sumeran Beach as a walk towards Flagler Avenue. Brings us from our R2 zone, through an R3 zone, through an R4 zone, before we reach the MU mixed use central business district. Spot zoning undermines good public policy. You don't insert an I2 district and permit the construction of an asphalt plant or junkyard in the middle of an R1 single family residential zone. The proposed rezoning of 1300 South Atlantic is an exercise in spot zoning. The density is out of character with the neighborhood, both in terms of total lot coverage and the mass of the building. Denying the zoning changed does not present a hardship for the developer as they knowingly purchase property and be too district. The developer retains rights consistent with the current zoning ordinance, granting the zoning changes a windfall for the developer and presents cascading challenges for the city. Across the street, the Indian River Shopping Center is a B5 Plan Shopping Center district. If you grant this zoning change for 13 of just half the Atlantic, the owner of the shopping center would gain a tremendous incentive and persuasive case to request a similar zoning change. The city would not have a persuasive argument for denying such a significant change, it would be forced to accept large scale development with similar density clear down the Saxon drive and beyond. If your vision is more density and to change the area, do it through the planning process and do that before you make a zoning change. Don't do spot zoning on this parcel, thank you. Thank you, sir, appreciate your comments. Thank you very much. Mr. Paid. Please, call me Lou. All right, hi Lou. Lou Payne, 1604 Sachs and Drive in full disclosure. I am a candidate for mayor. Mayor Cleveland never put a microphone in front of a radio talk show host and tell them no one can interrupt. Even if it's only for three minutes. But all kid in the side, I always like to start with a joke. That one didn't go over so well. I have to work on that one. I live at 1604, Saxon Drive, those new houses there. And as I said, at the Citizens Coalition Q&A on July 18th, knowing what I know now, I would vote against the building of my own home. None of those homes should have been built along there. And I love my home. None of those homes should have been built along there. And I love my home. And it's well built. And we have 5.9 acres across the street for which I'm told, you know, no wildlife lives there. Well, we have coyotes and bobcats and possums constantly getting hit on the road. I don't know. There's a lot of life in there and the city says doesn't live in there. The new parking garage, a gentleman's side of it earlier, just east of paradise, a golf course, golf carts. It's empty all the time. They've already cut their rates, $5. It used to be 20 now, it's down to $15. More parking is not needed. I'm dead set against this project. I'll go so far and be cheesy and say,'m red-set against this project. It is just not needed, but everybody has made some good points. I mean, at brilliant points, our neighbors have made here, especially this gentleman here. I'm sorry, didn't catch your name, but great points. But what people really want to know, and this is rhetorical. Don't go getting chief Feldman, the drag me out of here, is what they really want to know, it was a disappointment that the application was pulled. What they really want to know is, three of you are up for reelection, Commissioner Hartman, Commissioner McGurk, Mayor Cleveland. They want to know where you stand. They don't want the can kicked down the road. I was in construction prior to getting into media. I know the way the game is played. They're coming back. Everybody knows they're coming back. And then after the election, if you guys get reelected, there's nothing anybody can do. So, prior to the primary, prior to November, the people just want to know where do you stand? And that's all. That's really the only question tonight. Where do you stand? And don't answer it. That was rhetorical. And thank you for your time. Thanks Lou. Appreciate your comments. Mayor? I think I want to respond to that. Ladies and gentlemen, gentlemen from mayor, what you need to understand, understand is while we're sitting up here, we cannot under any circumstance tell you where we stand. We have to do due process. And that means if and when the developer ever comes up here and asks us to make the vote, we can only use the evidence presented to us during that hearing. Listen, so we understand and I have spoken to many of you you guys want to know how we feel about it We cannot respond to that legally and we can only hear the evidence during the hearing and Respond to that during the vote so we would love to be able to talk with you and tell you our personal opinion, but we cannot. So I want you to understand that. And the reason I'm responding to this is we're being set up here to as if we're not wanting or not willing to respond to you. So it's very important that you all understand that we can listen to you. We can talk with you. But we cannot make any determination on the hearing or on that particular item until the hearing. Thank you, Mayor. Appreciate that time. For some clarification. Let's proceed and we'll let the lawyer guide us on how we go here. All right. Correct. Commissioner McGurk is absolutely right. When you have a quasi-judicial item, they sit up here as neutral judges of what's presented. So for them to make a stand on any of those issues, they could be stricken from the diast of vote on that matter. So anyone who takes a position ahead of time is subject to be struck for bias by the applicant. So it's very important that they do not make statements on where they feel about this issue. Thank you for the clarity, ma'am. Jess, I know you want to talk. Mr. Mayor, just from the last seven days, I have to go to the street. So I'm going to give you guys a little curveball here. All the folks talked about the parking garage we didn't want. I don't want it either. But I'm looking at something else here that I've come to you more than once. I want to say five times. It's the MDAs, is the PUDs, which you have not. And I mentioned this, Randy, you heard it more than once instead of you, Jason. The MDAs should come to you before they were signed as commissioners. And the MDAs do not have a closing date on it. I bought up the Walnut Regency. 10 years until they have to build, then it's forever. I bought up the other ones on higher. No ending. Again, now this P-U-D here, the MDA for the parking garage, on the separating, we're ending this project here, it says the applicant has 24 months to submit permits. That's it. He could sit there 24 months off. I don't want to submit permits. That's it. He could sit there 24 months off. I don't know how to build yet. I want to wait. Waiting, waiting, waiting. So they have for months, years, forever. It needs to change where you, commissioners, staff, sit down and say, how do we do this here? How do we make it to a developer? It's held accountable. And the word shall, not will or could, should be in that wording there. Because I found out from a lawyer friend of mine that the word shall forces the individual to do that, to comply with it, whatever it is. If you shall commit a mess construction within 24 months or five years, you won't do it. That's it. So I want to thank the President's Coalition for the meeting of the candidates. The other day over here. Was it really great? Interesting for me to be there. Kevin, welcome to our town. You can see a lot of fireworks, huh? Thank you. Thank you, Jess. Appreciate your comments. Sma'am. Hello. I'm Harriet Heller, 11-11 Hill Street. I'm here to ask you to reject the proposed zoning text amendment, the one that we were going to hear tonight, so I'll go ahead and read my speech. And several emails after many sleepless nights offered to you other qualified definitions of commercial FAR. Some excluded exceptions based on community standards and policies. I attempted to convince you that the definition is proposed on behalf of the developer is not the only commercial FAR definition in existence. It is not an official expert or written in stone definition. The developers didn't want just any definition of commercial FAR to be added to the code. They needed you to adopt this specific one. The proposed definition of commercial FAR was professionally constructed, crafted, and sold to the developers to be used as a tool to overcome cities, code, and zoning ordinances. And the PNZ meeting, Mr. Baker called it a nuance. He said, we want to have this kind of nuance in there because it is very specific to our commercial future and land use area. If another one of these would come up somewhere else too, it would be exempt too. Mr. Frankenhouser asked the key question of the night. He asked if this new amendment would apply only to this parking garage. The staff responded no. This text amendment would change the entire city code. Imagine the ripple effects. FAR was created 99 years ago to limit and manage bulk. Tell me, tell us that this thing is not bulk. The proposed text amendment tells me that I shall not consider 84% of this massive, five-story, 60-foot high concrete rectangle covering nearly an acre corner to corner bulk. The proposed text amendment says it isn't bulk. It doesn't recognize mass. By using the new FAR definition, this thing goes from what was the original FAR of nearly four to a minuscule FAR of 0.58. Guess what? Mass and bulk don't disappear by applying a new definition. Although this strategy may seem attractive to you at the time, it will strip away the autonomy you have now and may need in the future. Let's take this opportunity to start at looking at our code. Let's make conscious decisions with community involvement as to how the code may be amended. Together, we can come to a consensus which allows our city to grow with grace while maintaining the charm that we all know love and call home. I respectfully ask you to realize that adopting this text amendment in the future as it is written is not in the best interest of the citizens of Newspaperna Beach. Thank you ma'am. I appreciate your comments. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate your comments. Thank you. Order. Thank you. Sir. That's my wife, Cue. Can I give you a sheet of paper each? Just hand it to the city clerk, please, sir. Well, good evening. My name is Nick Hellier and I live at 1111 Hill Street. I did actually have a very different dialogue or monologue rather prepared for tonight which was all related to the parking garage and the text amendment. But I want to talk about some things that came to mind because of the last three months' worth of information. And I'm about to make something relevant to what you're holding in your hand there. I think what was missing from the last three months was communication and information. My wife and I absolutely adore this town. When we come over the bridge, we throw the windows open and we get that amazing sense of home, a different kind of home when we cross the bridge. It's amazing. So we do care a lot about what happens on the beach side, but I must admit that in all the years we've lived here, we really haven't paid much attention to what goes on in here, because we haven't had what we thought was a good reason to. And then we found out about the garage proposal, after it had actually already gone through planning and zoning because of the notification rules, which are that, as I understand it, only people who, only homes that are located within 150 feet of the property that is being proposed have to be officially told. They're the only ones that have to receive a mailing. And there are seven homes within 150 feet of the garage property. But there are 110 homes within a thousand feet. So it does make a lot of difference to communicate with more people about such very, very important issues. Also, I think we're missing something with regard to information that pertains to projects like this, like for example, crime statistics. The crime statistics for parking garages are pretty important because they're the third highest location for violent crime in the country. That's not a nothing. But it didn't get discussed at PNZ. Noise is something that didn't get discussed at PNZ. The issues of licensing, liquor licensing up to 2 a.m. in an open, in a rooftop restaurant bar, didn't get discussed. And I think there's something missing in the way we communicate, the way the planners communicate with the local people that needs to be improved. We're missing something really important. Thank you very much for your comments, I appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you for your comments. Thank you. My name is Richard Treheo. My address is two houses behind the garlic restaurant, four-way stop sign, the most dangerous intersection in this town. It has signs that says don't park here. People from wherever they come from, they blow it off, they get their tickets, but it's dangerous for golf carts going through the for-way. So back to this mid garage. Mayor Cleveland, one Army Ranger veteran to another, I voted for you, I voted for several people here. My point is, I'm wearing what I'm wearing today, because I know you all don't wear the same closure wearing every day. I need you to wear what I'm wearing and get on a bicycle and go to these parking deroges. Go to these parking lots. Go to this third avenue area and hang out. I need you to start hanging out there and watching the crazy drivers fighting for getting on the beach, getting off the beach, whatever they're doing. It's dangerous for our citizens. You said you weren't something new. My wife and I go there every day. She's behind me. Is it clear? And I got a yell back. Not clear. It's dangerous out there. And it's not everybody doing it. But just those ones and twos that we don't want people, civilians. You got a big garage and people are parking there to try to go across the street to the beach. That's impossible. There's not going to be a walkway that goes over. They're going to fight across the street. We're going to have police officers every day out there doing cross guard duty. It's going to get out of control until it always takes someone to get hurt or you know the bad word for something more serious. All right, we're going to put big flashing lights. So you want me to bring you something different? We hang out there a lot in this area. I'm told that people don't even want to park there because they want to go Down to flag or Avenue. They want to go. They don't want to just park there and go to the beach They don't want to park and use Uber to go down there So I'm trying to give you something new that says if they're not using that new parking space right now, why are they gonna use 300 spaces? And that's my point, and I appreciate you all, and I hope to vote for you again, but we all voted for, I hope, smaller as opposed to bigger and massive. Thank you. Thank you, appreciate your comments. Thank you, sir. Appreciate that. Hello, my name is Larry Wesley and I live over at 39 in the Sandra Circle, New Smirno Beach. I love it over there It's funny, you know, I love stuff like this because I'm an old NCO I see from the United States Army and I've been lied to by my government for 52 years now. And I talk about the gas lighting that has been going on with this project. And the gas lighting is, oh, calling it a parking garage. It's not a parking garage. It's retail space, restaurants, bars. There's a lot of noise for those residents out there. And I can see after this thing is completed that all of a sudden there's going to be a crane putting up a 30-foot guitar and we're going to have a hard rock down here at New Smirna, just like they have up in Daytona. Come on, you got to use a hard rock down here in New Smirna, just like they have up in Daytona. Come on, you got to use a little vision out here, you know? You know, because they can sell it as soon as they build it. And the other thing that I have down as a notice here is, you know, the planning commission. We wouldn't have this mess here tonight. If the planning commission would have advertised two weeks ahead of time, that this is what we're gonna talk about, and disguise it as a parking garage? Come on people. Okay, number three. I think that we have to positively, absolutely, stop some of the growth, and definitely stop changing our ordinances and our zoning to meet the big bullies that come in here and try to push us around and build what they want to build. We have our ordinances in zoning for a reason and we should stick to it. A good example is that on 44 for goodness sake. You know, we changed all kinds of regulations out there. And the last thing I have here, it's gonna be real quick, is all of you are gonna leave a legacy here when you leave office. Colleague, you don't have to worry about it now. You won't have an eye store that's, you know, your legacy. It might be Kevin's, but you're going to leave a legacy. And that legacy is going to be built, it's concrete and stone, and it'll be there forever. This is the house that Kevin built. This is the ice or the he built or a Fred built or anyone up here. So think about your legacy that you're going to leave the people here in the residence of News Corn of Beach. So I got thank you very much sir appreciate that. Hello I'm D'Alan Clark I am a resident of New Samarna with a protected address. My parents moved here, moved our family here in 1960. They came here because they loved a small, quaint beach community. They wanted to raise their children in this beautiful town. In the mid-60s, my father was the vice mayor of New Sumerna under Bob Patelo as the mayor. At that time, the City Commission voted to keep the building code to three stories because they didn't want New Sumerna to become like Daytona. I am asking that each one of you consider the guiding principle of the spirit of the law, versus the letter of the law. The spirit of this commission in the 60s and the 70s was a deliberate, slow, protected growth. Obviously, this changed in the last 20 years. But I stand before you today asking that each of you would please consider every future vote in the spirit of keeping New Samarna safe for all of its citizens, beachside and mainland, and to please hold on to what made New Samurna such an incredible place in which to grow up. It's not too late. Thank you. Thank you, Dylan. Appreciate your comments. Thank you very much. Good evening, everyone. I'm Pasquale Verdunole with 391 South Timber Lane Drive. Thank you very much. Good evening, everyone. I'm Pasquale Verdunol, a 391 South Timberling Drive. The former county case, CPA 23-1011, was withdrawn in February, but has been resubmitted as case, PUD 24-007. And this is the proposed 33-acre development south of the dirt road part of Page Avenue. At the ends of wildwood and south Timberland drives also known as Oak Park, Oak Park, a state. This development is situated in a county flood zone yet involves the city which has jurisdiction over P. J. Avenue. It has drawn an enormous amount of a legitimate opposition from over 400 homes in the surrounding neighborhoods that would be adversely affected by it. The reasons are obvious and well known. If all the stringent rules and regulations of the St. John's Water Management District, the county and the city that pertain to flood zone and floodplain development, water retention, drainage and flooding, in addition to the first state of goal of the city's floodplain management, 2023 annual progress report published in the August 11, 2023 edition of hometown news which states, quote, prevent new development in the floodplain from increasing runoff and resulting in increases in flood volumes in the floodplain, unquote. Our strictly adhered to and enforced, and let's see how anyone can conclude that this application complies with any of these rules and would recommend approval. Right now with the land, this landlock property and its natural state is the best that this area will be. Holmes closest to Page Avenue flooded by Hurricane Ian had a four-feet of water in that. Filling in this 33 acre property in order to raise the level above the Crown Page Avenue will exacerbate the flooding and surrounding neighborhoods and will have hazardly redirect the natural flow of resultant flood waters as depicted on the Turnbull Bay watershed map. The solution to this dilemma is for the Volusa forever program to purchase this property and that will result in a four-way win. First, the property would become a county conservation area, second, the city and the tax paying citizens. We all have to pay the exorbitant cost of infrastructure and improvements to build roads, repair, replace, or refurbish the unusable pay-jab and your bridges. Pave pay-jab and you provide city water and store electric utilities and improve the water drainage and retention areas. Third, the surrounding neighborhoods will have peace of mind that they will not be subjected to additional flooding or fight this battle again. And fourth, the owner developer, Ken Rikupi's investment. The years, this year's tax record shows a land and market value of $235,613. Since the city is involved in knowing that you are dealing with other in-house projects, I'm respectfully requesting that you, the city commission, the planning and zoning board, and staff make this a priority and work together with the county to get the Volusia forever program to approve the purchase of this property. I am told that the application must be submitted by September 13th. Thank you for your consideration and support, during this application process. Thanks, Baco. Thank you so much for your comments, sir. I'll see you. Good evening, Mayor Commission and city staff. My name is Leslie Sachs. My address is 816 East 8th Avenue, New Smirna Beach. I'm glad that these items have been withdrawn, but I'm only going to read like two paragraphs of my three-page thing. This text amendment, if it gets approved, it can open up floodgates for future unbridled growth. This could forever change our desirable beach side and take away our uniqueness, acquaintance, and historical charm. Words that are used to market our area. This text amendment will apply one rule for the entire town, which, as you know, has very distinct and different areas. One size does not fit all. In 2016, the residents coalition and citizens for smart growth worked very hard with city staff to reduce the FAR on the barrier island for hospitality, future use and mixed use. Why increase it now for commercial now after all that hard work? Ordinance is 21-16 and 22-16 are the result of all that work. By increasing heights and densities, you will no way benefit the residents of the beach side. This will create out of scale buildings, creating higher heat indexes, blocking breezes, and lowered property values on surrounding property. The traffic is already congested on South Atlantic and Third Avenue at the light near Red Dog Surf Shop. I shop at Walgreens. My prescriptions are there as well. And I'm thinking of moving everything to CVS to avoid this area if this gets built. And a new impact to our traffic will be the decision made by the county that just said, oh, beach parking and driving is free. This will cause a traffic increase of people looking for that free parking spot on the beach instead of paying for parking, thus lessening the need for any future large parking projects. We entrusted you to create legislation to help us and not hurt us, and I'll tell you a quick story. I witnessed a garage, parking garage crime at my old job at System One owned by Eastern Airlines. In 1991, my friend, Jeff Quimby, was murdered in the parking garage at my job, and I saw it. And it was horrible. It was a case of mistaken identity, and they thought he was someone else, and someone hid behind a car and shot him when he went to his lunch break. So, I just bring that memory back to the forefront and it's something that we need to consider. And then finally, thank you. Thank you. Let's appreciate your comments. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Anyone else for public participation? Seeing none, public participation is now closed. Move on to section 7, the consent agenda. Does any member of the commission wish to comment or have a question about any of the items on the consent agenda? Commissioner Martin. I'm going to go ahead and do the same thing. I'm going to go ahead and do the same thing. I'm going to go ahead and do the same thing. I'm going to go ahead and do the same thing. I'm going to go ahead and do the same thing. I'm going to go ahead and do the same thing. I'm going to go ahead and do the same thing. I'm going to go ahead and do the same thing. for this request. We put together a traffic calming manual that I have sent out quite a few over the last year and a half where when somebody wants to have traffic calming measure put in, they have to abide by the manual. We've got a lot of people out there working to collect signatures and doing this at and the other. This doesn't even give me any statistics on what kind of accidents. I have no information to justify saying yes to this. And frankly, it feels like a bit of a slap in the face to all the people who have worked hard to get the supporting information for their own request for their traffic calming measure, whether it's a stop sign, deaf child sign, any of the above. So that's my problem with it. Thank you. So the manager. Mayor, if I may, she's right on the traffic calming money, however, if there is an issue where it does involve major safety, we have the commission and staff, staff has recommended to the commission in certain cases where we have stop signs or other traffic control measures that needed. The city engineer is here and I want to have to speak on this topic in particular and then we'll go and take some questions after that. So Kyle. Good evening Mayor and that's a good point, Commissioner Martin. One thing I failed to mention in my report was I did coordinate with the police department. So, and based on the records provided by their supervisor, this area, in the last, just in the last two years, there was a 14-access Cooper, there was a total four accidents on Ocean Ave, and two specifically right at this intersection. So, this review was prompted by residents that have concern for this particular intersection. So we went out and observed it, right? So we went eastbound, we went westbound on Ocean Ave, and then also drove Cooper. And it's a little different than the other adjoining roadways within this corridor, because currently there's an all-way stop condition at Peninsula and at Pine Street, and then Horton and of course Atlantic. Cooper is just a wider right away, and it gives this impression that it's a major intersection, and you're already on a smaller right away. So if you look at the traffic calming manual, there's certain guidelines. I don't know that they'll ever be triggered. I don't think you're gonna have the volume on the Maya roadway versus the major roadway. I don't think you're gonna get your 85th percentile speed limit at or above what's required for a traffic calming device. But solely based on an observation in the traffic management area, we certainly recommend going with an all-way condition which should have minimal impact if anything to the efficiency of this corridor. So that's our recommendation. I hear you and if only those same criteria could be looked at in other places like the second third Avenue and Peninsula or the 100 block of Flagler come to mind, I think we have to be consistent in making our decisions and I don't see consistency and I would like to pull the item. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda item 7A, B, C, D, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O. So moved. The motion. And the second. Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Vice Mayor Prin. Yes. Commissioner McGurt. Yes. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes Commissioner McGurt. Yes Commissioner Hartman. Yes Mayor Cleveland. Yes Okay, so let's focus on seven E then and I give Commissioner Martin Floor again, and we'll need a motion obviously in the affirmative and then we can do whatever we want with that So get all over to you. I understand that there are certain circumstances that may operate over and above Our traffic calming manual, but I think we have to be consistent on them. And I don't see a consistent application of how we decide to put in stop signs or other traffic calming measures. It's I, it's not that I specifically object to this. I object to pulling one application out and not giving other people equal access to such measures. So do we establish a process over and above the traffic calming manual or do we use the traffic calming manual consistently? We're going to make a second set of rules and let's make that second set of rules because I've got a few areas I'd happily supply. Saxon Avenue, you know, the second, third, and peninsula, 100 on Flagler. There's several other locations that we've had a lot of accidents, and yet we have not taken any measures to protect them. Any other comments by any other commissioner? And I have a motion then, please, and the affirmative, and then we will vote accordingly. So motion on 70 E please. Make a motion to approve 70 E end of the consent. We have a motion to approve seven E is our second. Second. Okay any more discussion. So I speak in favor of process and involvement of the police department and appreciate the fact that there is coordination between the chief engineer and the police. But I think we get on a slippery slope to wings and nods on, hey, we just think it should be here. We're not going to follow the protocol that we've established. And I think that's a slippery slope. And so in the name of process and protocol, we've got a set of processes. Let's use them. And if we don't like them, we'll change them. And make them more efficient. So I speak in favor of not approving this particular thing till it does through the traffic calming manual. Any other discussion? Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Vice Mayor Prin. No. Commissioner McGurt. No. Commissioner Hardman. No. Commissioner Martin. No. Mayor Cleveland. No, thank you. Go back to the city and Mr. Rashida, you'll take that up. I just want to just city and Mr. Rashid, you'll take that up. I just want to say one thing, 99.9% we follow the traffic coming many will. However, as you know, there is no rule out there that sometimes safety comes first. And so what happened is with this one, there's some people approached the city engineer regarding this safety issues at this specific intersection. So they used engineering judgment as well as the police department inputs in order to recommend this. So I just want to let you know, it's not like we have not followed, we have followed at 99.9%. But at some point, it will come from this commission that, hey, look at this intersection for a stop sign. So if they see a safety issue, we have to act. So that's what they did. Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you, sir. Just on that comment, because I've been involved in several of these before, I've always had to provide documentation. There was no documentation in the agenda about any of this. I mean, it was a last minute thing. That's why I voted no. I mean, if you have the documentation that needs to be presented ahead of time so that we can discuss it and even talk about it, you know, during the briefing and then address those issues because I understand that this is not necessarily a traffic calming issue, but more of a traffic safety issue. So I think that maybe even we could look at language specific to that and not call it a traffic calming but traffic safety and come up with some guidelines for that because I like Commissioner Martin and have some areas in town that but also appreciate an extra stop sign here. They're just for the safety reasons. But you know we need that information. You know it's tough to make a decision when that information wasn't provided ahead of time. And we could go back a commissioner to back to the traffic calming manual and do some revisions there. Wendy we could add a section about safety specifically and also will provide the information for you on this specific one. Not that we're going to bring it back, but I'm sure that the residents who they asked for it, I'm sure there'll be probably coming back at the New York City Commission meeting because I think they know this item is fortnight so. And it wasn't the person that you indicated this some other people. It doesn't matter, but the point is, is that if we do this, I think that there are a number of residents in other very specific problematic areas. You know, I'm aware of a death in the 100 block of flagler in a traffic. And yet, we've done nothing with that. So, I think we have to be consistent with how we approach things. So thank you very much. Thank you, sir. Thank you for the comments. I appreciate it. I know that we will move forward in the name of safety and in traffic coming. I'd like to move on to section nine, ordinances and second readings of public hearings. And so the City Commission will conduct a public hearing to consider the approval of application HDR324, which is approved would approve the historic tree removal of a property at 1970 Turnbull Lakes Drive. Our compliance coordinator, Channing Mallow, is present. We're ready for your report, sir. All right. Good evening. As Mayor stated, this is request to remove a 37-inch DBA July Vogue at the property 1970 Terminal Lakes Drive. So the property at 1970 Turnbull Lakes Drive is one existing, developed multi-family residential property, 6,107 square feet total located in Turnbull Lakes Drive within Turnbull Estates and Zone Plan Unit development. There was an Arbor support by Brad Alper who is an ISA certified Arborist with some major findings including declining condition in immediate proximity to the house due to lightning damage and damage from root grinding. As assessed based on level 2 TRA, it was assessed as a fair health based on poor, fair, good, and excellent. Some of the conditions, some concerned, included, like I said, the lightning strike crack in the main leader. The origin was about halfway up the trunk and extended into the top of the tree. The roots were also ground away at one point probably during development for some patty of havers to be installed behind the property. So per the report likelihood of failure was noted as somewhat likely in normal weather conditions, meaning failure may be expected under normal weather conditions. Based on the tree side and immediate proximity to the property, the tree was categorized as a moderate risk for failure within a two-year timeframe. So under Fortes Statue 163.045, this state disallows us to deny permit or trimming whenever an arborist report is provided that deems the tree to be a hazard. And that's based on the tree risk assessment. So the level two tree risk assessment was performed, but this property was deemed ineligible due to its status as a multifamily. It's a quadplex. And the statute defines the properties allowable to be exempt as single-family detached buildings located on a lot that is actively used for single-family residential purposes. So this was deemed ineligible by staff for that exemption. So it went through the regular permitting process, which required it to come to you as a historic tree removal application. Unfortunately, on July 19th, or turned to the property to take more pictures of the tree, and the tree was removed at that time. So I talked to Brad, the applicant for the homeowner, and he stated that he was out of town, and unfortunately it sounded like there was a scheduling error in their system. It was put on the schedule when he was out of town, when he explicitly told them that it should and needs to go to city commission for approval prior to it being removed. So right now, we are recommending approval of that historic live oak. You know, and right now it's as it stood, two trees were to be replaced on that property to come back to the 1 per 2,500 square feet, minimum regulation. But we will defer to your judgment for the replacement criteria at that point. And the applicant is here if you have any further questions. Thank you. Appreciate that. Stand by for some questions. Any questions for our compliance coordinator? Mr. Martin. My only comment is that it seems to me we as a city need to do a better job of educating tree removal companies that they have to have a permit before they can cut down a tree because clearly I'm assuming that a permit was not in place when this tree was accidentally removed. So it's just a note that we need to do a better job of educating the companies that operate within our city. That's it. We were aware of this situation with the exemption per forest statue. And so was the arborist. And but after further deliberation upon staff, we deemed it ineligible because of its status as a multi-family parcel. Or it's a quadplex. So it's, and see if I understand, it was ineligible for a permit. Ineligible for exemption for a permit. So since it's not a detached single family residence, that's what's clearly outlined in the Florida Statute that allows you for exemption. So at that point, we realized we had to go through the regular permitting process, and that was related to the homeowner and the arborist on staff. Yeah, and I'm talking about the companies, we have a lot of companies that tend to operate within the city without required permits. It's just another example of the ramifications. Correct. Anyone else, Commissioner Parin? Have we had this happen before and what did we do in the past? I'm about to acknowledge. I don't know. You asked me no. I asked him to think we've had a tree removal without the store in tree removal. Oh, I've been aware before the commission. Oh, yeah, bulldozers that accidentally back into historic trees. Or wildfires that take place accidentally. There's a lot of what we did about it. Oh, what we do about it is a whole different story. Yeah. Anybody else? Thank you. Let's have a debate between us. Any other question, Mr. Hartman? No, no. I think there was one previous to this and you know they were made to pay into the pre-medication fund because of that and then of course it had to apply for a permit and would have to pay increased fees before the action before the permit was fine or permit was issued. So I do read and maybe this I say when we had a commercial property that was it was found that many trees were removed from that property without a permit but it was commercial and that person was required to pay over $100,000 into a tree mitigation fund. That's why. But I'm not aware of a residential circumstance that fit this criteria exactly. No, we're just going to ask now they are required still to replace trees, right? Two trees or no? Correct. So for that that size property would be two trees or no correct so for that that size property it would be two trees to come into minimum standards I will say for residential purposes we don't currently give the option to pay into the mitigation fund it would be trees replaced on site or done it did the city say that again they don't have the option to do what to pay into the tree mitigation fund residential properties do not so it would be a commercial property as Commissioner Hartman had stated and Commissioner Mayor reiterated any other questions I got a few What do we do to with with Professionals that come in and just appear to blow off the rules and say I'm going to cut it anyway and beg forgiveness. So penalty for the, and do we ever issue another permit to that person, that company to ever be able to do business in New Samarna again? Do we do anything of a punitive nature? I'm not sure that we were able to hold the contract. Why would anybody want to comply in these situations? I have been attempting to make better contact with the tree companies to establish relationships that they understand. Well, it's nice of you to do that. But I think we have more teeth in our power here somewhere. Typically, mayor, if there is a repeated front there, they take them to the building trade board. So it hasn't happened that I recall. But that's a tool there that's for you to use with the contractors. So, you know, as Commissioner Martin said to educate these three companies, I bid to all of them. They know that you need to have a permit. So it's not the lack of education. Interesting. It's sometimes, you know, they, and it happened in front of me where you get an estimate from a guy and he'll say, it's going to be $700 because I have to hold it away. And then they'll say, well, how about if you don't? It's $500. Well, you cut it and I'll take care of it. So then they're expecting the city to pick it up. They know exactly what they're doing, the same thing with the permits. So I guess my point, Colled, is that there was no penalty. If I'm speeding on Chief Feldman's roads, I'm going to get a ticket and there's no question about it. But if this is allowed to go and we have no rules, no laws, no ordinances on the books that say, should you do this, you're done in New Sumerna or something like that, then why would anybody comply? Could I ask? Yeah, please. Do we have any legal ability to find companies that do work in the city without permits. Because right now the onus is all on the homeowner and so the question becomes is how can we penalize the people that are actually doing the unpermitted work? I think for a one time offense, the homeowner is stuck, but when you get in a contractor with multiple, who's done it multiple times, like Colled was just saying, you can send them to the building trades board, and there's penalties there that they would face. Have we, but as Colled said, we've never actually seen it. It would seem to me to make more sense if we had just like we put out tickets on the road if we have some way, a legal mechanism. I mean we have contractors now. I know of one that wants to have a zoning text amendment to cover the building that he is doing that co-compliance is pointed out he cannot do. And so, I mean, there's just, it's an ongoing issue and we really don't have a good mechanism. I'm trying to see if there's any way to create one. Let me do this because I know it does happen with building contractors. Let me go back to the building official tomorrow and see what kind of tools we have specifically on the tree because I know they do it for the building. I know that for building contractors, whether plum or electrical, mechanical, general contractors. They do what? If they do work without a permit repeatedly, they will take them to the building trade board. I just haven't seen it with the trees removal. Excuse me? The conversation that we're having, I think, college is what we appreciate the fact that that's been the protocol. They go to the building trade board when I'm going to go back to the building official and see if there's a tool, if there's not a tool that we'll see how we're going to implement that. Yeah, if this body decided this is maybe a legal question carry if this body decided we would like a Regulation with a penalty. Can that be crafted? And are we are we empowered to do that type of work? And what would your advice be? Okay, so under code compliance, there's fine set maximum fine set forth in chapter 162. Now under the building trade boards, I don't know that they have, I think their caps would be different. But that board would have discretion just like your code board and your magistrate have as to what the amount would be. Do we have, it's stipulated how many times a company has to, how many trees does company X cut down without permits before we send them to building trades? How many, you know, swimming pools are put in without permits before we send them? I mean, do we have any guidelines on that? So I can't speak off the top of my head. I'd have to look into that. Thank you. And so please do. I think we want to, I think this has got enough teeth on it. Mr. McGurk. OK, thank you. I'm sure. OK. Thank you for the report. Channing, appreciate that. Public hearing is now open. There are any citizens who wish to speak on this topic. Please approach and you'll be heard. This is a monologue, not a dialogue. I see one gentleman there ready to go. This is the applicant. Delighted. Your name and address for me. How you doing, Brad Alper 1100 West Heaven Street NSB? Yeah, let me just Start by saying you know this company TNK tree service who I'm a subcontractor for I'm in on the license arborist You know do do a lot more than Trerisk assessments They've been around in this town for 30 years doing work never had an infraction or anything like that and You know, we actually are the contractor for the city. We do your tree work and So let me just explain how this whole thing happened You know because we're obviously not trying to go around any rules or dodge any permits to remove historic trees. I'd just like to comment and say that these historic trees, especially these oak trees, are part of the, you know, the lore of this town and it would make it special, I think. They're right outside these buildings across this street, these huge giant oak trees. We love them, we want to take care of them. This tree was, you know, how to, this threatening this house, the homeowner wanted to remove it. All I ever did was write a report for him. And at that point, you know, if it was a single family unit, he would have been able to remove it without a permit. So, just to, you know, cover my basis. I have a good relationship here with Channing. And I sent him the Tree Risk Assessment. He went ahead, you know, on June 26, email me, you're good to go take down the tree. I got your Tree Risk Assessment. I said, great, okay, you know, told the scheduler, we're good from the city, we're not gonna break any rules. Then 24 hours or so Chanaining called me up and said, oh, this is actually a multi-family unit. We'll need a permit. And this is a 38 inch tree, which is above the threshold. We're going to a historic tree, which is 36 inch diameter at breast height. Said, OK, no problem. What do we got to do to get that permit? He said, I'll give you the application and there's about six different documents. I put together, you know, filled out the application. The homeowner was on board paid a $250 fine. I mean, whatever application fee to, you know, submit it. Submit it to all those things into the city. You know, with my trueros assessment, everything signed, dotted, ready to go. Like, all we needed to do was have this meeting so you guys could decide if it was okay to remove it. And I guess the scheduler, it wasn't me who left town. Our scheduler had written book this job on the paper in that 24 hours that he had told me we're good to go. And so my boss came in to start making the schedule, and he saw on that paper book, and he just assumed, oh, it must be, you know, permits approved. I had no idea this tree even got cut down until Channing called me up from the job site. He's like, hey, the tree's not here. I'm like, no, are you serious? And just the day before that the homeowner had told me, hey a tree company just came by and said, this isn't a live oak, it's a laurel oak and you don't even need a permit so you can just cut it down today and I'm like, don't do that, you can get a big trouble for that, you know, like I don't recommend you just cut down a historic live oak about you know getting some thumbs up from the city again, we weren't trying to break any rules or anything like that. Anyway, I immediately called up my boss and he said, oh my god, really? Like that, we didn't get the permit. And so he wrote up this letter. He's actually up in Tallahassee cutting trees for the hurricane. He admitted faults and said that he just made a mistake. And obviously he's never done anything like this before so he loves trees too and feels really horrible that this happened so he wanted me to read this to you today. I'd like to offer an explanation as to what happened at the home above. First I'd like to say that I love trees especially oak trees, even more so historic oak trees. I work hard to preserve all trees and offer my clients other options rather than just removal like a lot of the tree services that come in here from out of town. Originally this particular job was booked and scheduled. I put it on my calendar. It was, you know, had the word book on it. And this job was put on holder to permit issues and then I went out of town and I came back this job was put on my desk since me the arborist had written on the port, had written the report and had the pictures and had the permit application in. He just erroneously thought that job was indeed ready to be put back into rotation to be done. I put the work on the schedule to be done without confirming that all the steps had been completed and the permit approved. I work hard to run a reputable tree service and follow all the rules and would not knowingly remove a historic tree without proper paper work in place. That was not my intention. I apologize respectfully Tim Riyot, TNK tree service. Thank you sir. Appreciate your remarks. Yeah, sure. Thank you sir appreciate your remarks. Yeah sure. Thank you. Any other discussion by commission commissioner Gregorca. So there may not be a formal process and certainly I think we would like to take a look at in the future when things like this happen. Something a little more stiffer than what is offered today. I will tell you that whether contractors are tree service companies, they do get a reputation around town if they're not good people, if they're not good companies, if they're not good contractors. So that kind of information moves quickly. And I will say that I've never heard anything bad about this company. I think that, wow, we need to tighten up penalties for this kind of situation. And the Board of Adjustments, I think, is the first one that should see this and probably have some kind of latitude over what kind of penalty to apply. In this case, I probably believe a lot of what was said and it wasn't something that was just done in disregard of the rules and laws. Appreciate that. Anybody else from the public want to speak on the issue? Seeing none, public participation down close. Any other comments or questions by the commission? Commissioner Hartman. So, Channing, did they affect an apartment? Apply for a permit? They did apply for the permit. Okay. Sorry. Just in the whole process until this meeting. All right. Anyone else? Thank you, Channing. Appreciate that. So let me see. I'll just go ahead and do a verification here. If we go ahead and permit the removal, they will be charged for the permit and they will have to put into new trees. Is that correct? That's correct. So we're doing it functionally, would be doing a pro forma approval of that, which has already been done. But what it does do is simply showcase that when right now unpermitted work falls on the shoulders of the homeowner, I'd like to also see it fall on the owners or on the shoulders of the companies that do the work. So you know, okay. Okay. So you know okay so okay thank you. Yeah thank you for that and so between Mr. Rushett between you and Mr. Calper you get the general feeling and desire the commission okay very good thank you. Is there a motion to approve application HDR 3-24? I make a motion to prove HDR 3-24 with the stipulation that they replaced the two trees within 60 days. Second. A motion and a second any further discussion? Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Vice Mayor Parin. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Most of. Yes. Vice Mayor Parin. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Motion carries. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Madam City Attorney, if you'll read ordinance 4324 for the first time by title only, please. Ordinance number 4324. An ordinance of the City of News Murnaby, Chimending the Land Development Regulations, Amending Article 2 definitions, Section 201, General Definitions, to replace church with house of worship and add pharmacy. Amending Article 5, Establishment of Districts, Section 502, Specific Regulations by Districts, to replace church with house of worship and permit the use in certain certain zoning districts and to replace drug stores and prescription pharmacies with pharmacy. Riding for codification, providing for public hearing, providing for conflicting ordinances, providing for severability and providing an effective date. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate that. I see a senior planner, Mathens, and the batter's box. We're ready for your report, Bob. Yes, Mr. Mayor. So, what are the proposed changes? So, first, what we'll do is we'll report on the drug store and the pharmacies. So, the current land of rental regulation has pharmacy, drug store, prescription pharmacies as listed as uses in certain zoning districts. So, we reviewed the state statute 465. The state of Florida refers to the term pharmacy instead of the drug store. And so staff is also proposed to replace the use of the terms drug store, drug store slash pharmacy, prescription pharmacies, and just use the term pharmacy. The plan of parliament also suggested a new definition that was also based on the floor statute 465.003 paragraph 20 sub paragraph 8. So the effect of zoning district would be B2 B5 B6 which is the medical professional district also new definition of pharmacy currently the land of elaboration does not have a definition for pharmacy. So now what do we report on the church and house of worship use? So basically religious land use and instant to installation, persons act of 2000 is a civil rights law. That protects individuals and religious assemblies from institutions, from discriminatory or unduly burbson land use regulations. So after the hearings, which Congress heard, these religious assemblies and institutions were disapproprely affected. And in fact, they were awfully discriminated against and local land use decisions. The Congress passed that act unanimously in 2000, and President Clinton signed that act into law September 22, 2022. The act also provides several important protections for religious freedoms of persons, places of worship, religious schools, and other religious assemblies and institutions. So in an attempt to comply with the religious land use and institutionalized persons act, the plan department has recommended that the use of term of church be reclassified as house of worship and relocate that from a special exception use to a permitted use in certain zoning districts where comparable permitted uses exist. So the plan department also has proposed a new definition for house worship. the So as you can see on the slide Churches would be struck out as special exception uses and house of worship would be inserted as a permitted use Church would also be replaced with house of worship as it pertained to day cares on house worship properties Also the definition of a church would be replaced with the definition of house of worship the two definitions are the same just with a different Title the House of Worship, the two definitions are the same, just with a different title. So at the record schedule, meaning back on June 3rd, 2024, the plan is only board voted seven to zero to give a positive recommendation to the city commission to approve the requested land development regulation amendments. And the plan department also recommends the city commission to approve the requested changes to section 502.04 and section 201 to be consistent with the Florida Statutes and the religious land use and institutionalized persons active 2000 and that concludes the summary of the staff report subjecting questions at the commission. Thank you, Mr. Mnathan any comments or questions from the Dias? I've got one, Bob. Does that mean that your home could be a house of worship? Well, what we're looking to change right now would be the ones in the commercial districts because right now they're special exception uses, which could consider it as a discrimination against churches since we allow other similes to be permitted uses. So that would change that. Currently right now we do have House of Worship's insert residential zoning, but since we do not have other assemblies as permitted use, they will stay as a special exception when they have to come in front of this commission for approval. Okay. Okay. So in the R2 for example, zone they would continue to be special exceptions. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you, Bob, appreciate the report. Public hearing is now open. There are any citizens who wish to speak on this topic. Please come forward and you'll be heard. Seeing none, public participation is now closed. Like the City Commission to consider the adoption of Fortes 43224 on a first reading. This requires a vote at the first and the second reading. Second reading and public hearing will be conducted on August 27th. Is there a motion for approval? Motion to approve ordnance number 43-24. Second. And a second. Madam City Clerk, please call the roll Commissioner Hartman. Yes, Commissioner Martin. Yes, Vice Mayor Prane. Yes, Commissioner McGurk. Yes, Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Thank you very much Madam City Attorney if you'll read 4424 for the first time by law only please. Ordnance number 4424. In ordinance of the city of Newsburner Beach amending the land development regulations. Meaning Article 5 zoning districts. Section 50402 specific regulations by district. B3 highway service business district. To add pain management clinic as a special exception use. Providing for codification, providing for public hearings, providing for conflicting ordinances, providing for severability, and providing an effective date. Thank you, ma'am. Senior planner Baker, your report sir. Yes, we have Dr. Rajesh Alani, applicant request approval of a zoning text amendment to allow pain management clinics with conditions as a special exception in the B3 highway how they service business district. At the June 3, planning and zoning board meeting, the board voted 7-0 to recommend the commission approve the zoning tax amendment to allow pay management clinics in the B3 with one revision. The planning and zoning board had a criteria when there are presentation that basically said that there would be no exterior science or advertisement of what they do trying to hide the idea that this is a pain management clinic and we're told that basically that would be a violation of their second amendment rights. So that one revision that they consider is longer included. Why is zoning checks the amendment the applicant would like to allow the language category of pain management clinic to be allowed into B3. As a special exception with a number of conditions, these conditions are intended to disallow the profusion of pill mills in the city. Currently pain management clinics are limited to two zoning districts, the B6 medical professional district and the B6A limited medical professional district as special exceptions. They have to meet four criteria. They have to have a reception awaiting area. They have to have administrative area, including room for storage of medical records, supplies and equipment, have private patient examination rooms and have treatment rooms if treatment is provided to the patients. Now for the B3, those same four conditions carry over, but they also have added additional criteria to make it much more stringent in the B3 highway service business district. They must provide documentation that the business is registered with the Florida Department of Health or documentation that the business is exempt from registering with the Florida Department of Health. The clinic must be operated and administered by duly licensed medical doctor or doctor of osteopathic medicine. The clinic will offer interventional spinal injection therapies administered by a duly licensed MD or DO. The clinic business will not be deployed only with no walking appointments and there will be no dispensing of narcotics on the premises. So basically, it makes it very rigorous so there's no opportunity for this to become a pill mill. Here's a map that shows the B3 districts along the Canal Street in 44 corridor and then I have two other maps where B3 goes up north towards the Isles-Burrow neighborhood and down 44 from industrial park and then down to our southern city limits. So these are the areas shaded in yellow which could be affected by this if someone chooses to apply for a special exception for a pay management clinic and can meet all these very rigorous conditions. Staff recommends that the City Commission approve the request of zoning tax amendment. And I would note that the scheduling issue, the Planning and Zoning Board has kind of already considered the special exception that they're meeting eight days ago last Monday, basically because they kind of got pushed back a little bit with our delay, you know, nothing going on in July. So they kind of went forward with the last meeting, kind of with the knowledge that if you guys were to apply new conditions, they're back to square one. So, but they're trying to get their process rolling along as quickly as possible. Thank you for the report. Before I ask for questions, there's for clarity those watching in for the record. Jacob, I think you said something about when the signage issue came up, they wanted to protect their second amendment, right? So I'm not sure gun control has much to do. You probably meant first amendment, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Just want to make sure. Very, very true. Make sure to make that for the record. Thank you very much. Are there any members of the commission with questions or comments? I just have some comments. Commissioner McGurk. So the history of what we did here, we obviously everyone knows that Pill Mills were a problem. We actually had a problem with one on North Causeway. So we interacted with the commission created a whole new set of policies to get that under control. I have spoken to Rajalani, who's a reputable doctor in the area. He also owns the property that these people are going to be running from. So with me having a business on US one that deals with a lot of these kind of problems due to the motels, I can tell you that I'm comfortable with what the staff has done with this and all the conditions that are put into this. So I think we've moved past the situation where we have the Pill Mills, I think the federal and state laws have taken, have done a lot to control that. And I know that Alonni couldn't make it tonight, but he, as a landlord, would never tolerate any kind of situation like a Pill Mill that was created in the past. Thank you sir. Appreciate that. Any other comments or questions? Commissioner Martin? of a situation like Bill Mille, that was created in the past. Thank you sir, appreciate that. Any other comments or questions, Commissioner Martin? My problem is that this isn't a one off. This would open up all of the B3 zoning. And I have a problem with that. We are trying, we're spending a lot of time in effort trying to dress up, if you will, our major corridors. And as we know, I mean, what is described as beautiful? And if all of that were, and you know, and I have no problem with this specific doctor, but we can't limit it to this one. And we don't know who the next person will be. And we all know that the First Amendment rights do allow them to put up signs that say pain management clinic, which has a certain connotation. And while we're making all of these efforts to make our city have a certain type of culture, while we're making all of these efforts to make our city have a certain type of culture when we allow certain businesses to advertise on our major corridors, we're putting out a statement to the world. If this were, we have two medical districts already and I don't, I understand that this is a wonderful doctor and a wonderful facility. And that's great. Unfortunately, it's not restricted to this one person and we don't know who's going to open up on any of our other B3s. So again, I understand all the limitations. I understand the appointments. I understand all of that. That doesn't make up for a sign outside that says, pain management clinic. That's a statement and we can't control that. So I believe we should keep it where it is in the medical districts. It's appropriate. But I'm looking at it for the overall picture that we present to the world at this city. And the connotation that anybody else, because remember, this doesn't restrict this to Elani only. It says anybody can come in and put up whatever sign they want, any place in B3. Jake, do you or the city manager have a remedy for the challenge that Commissioner Martin sends up? In other words, what are the checks and balances in this or is it just wide open? Well, you know, you would have to be a medical doctor or a doctor of osteopathic medicine to even start this special exception process. You also have to offer interventional spinal injection therapies. There's no walk-ins, there's no dispensing of drugs from the site at all. And when I worked with the applicant on this, they helped come up with the criteria and they actually proposed the idea of the sign not indicating like this is a pain management clinic walk on up and get some drugs. So I think they would be actually willing to limit themselves to not having anything but they do have a representative here going to answer that question. The problem I have is that when we make a zoning text change, we cannot limit it to one business. That's the problem. And these people are being wonderful. There's no two ways about it. But we're not limiting it to this one group. No, you're not limiting it to this one group. No, you're not limiting it to just one group, one potential group, but the criteria that you actually have to meet to go in here is pretty rare. The criteria is lovely. And I understand the criteria, but putting that paint management sign out front. And John, you know, Joe Smith can walk in next week and have the same right to open up one of these clinics and put that sign out. Dr. Joe Smith. Dr. Joe Smith, right? So the problem is we don't have a way to control every other person who might want to come in. It's not the criteria is wonderful. The appointments, all of that, but none of that makes up for what it says about our town. If you drive down US$144 and see a sign that says pain management, that's a statement. And we have no way of controlling it if we allow this zoning text amendment. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Jake, for your testimony. Appreciate that. Public hearing is now open. If there are any member of the public, would you like to speak on this topic, please come forward. And you'll be heard. Just your name and address for the record, sir. I am a Quintong, I'm a physician at PRC. So this is an interventional paint practice. I am a Quintro, I'm a physician at PRC. So this is an interventional pain practice. So we specialize, doctors, we're residency trained doctors. We do fellowship to do these procedures. It's not a pill mill. I know that the pain management has a negative connotation because of this house been in the past with, you know, unfortunately, a lot of things that, but we're really just trying to help patients get better through interventions. and it's the spinal injections that whoever's applying for this, if they're not just prescribing medication. Do you understand? We think you're great. Okay, so we're not going to go back and forth. Are you finished, sir? Are you got more? Yes, yes. Sure. All you want. Okay, very good. Anybody else from the public like to speak? Okay, public participation is now closed. So let's go to a motion and then we'll talk. Is there a motion to consider the adoption of 44-24 on the first reading? It will require a vote for the first time and the second reading and the second reading and public hearing will be conducted in August 27th. Most of the approved ordinance number 44-24. Second is there more discussion. Martin, do you want to say some more about it? Just, I want to be clear, this has nothing to do with the very, very appropriate condition set up on the inside of the door, but since we cannot control the outside of the door for anybody else who comes in, I feel that it's appropriate to keep it in our medical districts. That's the problem I have. It's not this particular group. I think they are offering a very valuable service, but we can't control what other people coming in after them might do. Even if they apply the same rules, we can't control the signage. Anyone else? So I completely understand that the concerns are 100% valid, but we do have a way of controlling it. Everyone that comes in has to be granted a special exception. So each case that each applicant that comes in, we can determine whether or not they show the credentials to be able to get the privilege of operating a pain management clinic in the B3 district. But we cannot control the signage they use. That's the issue I have. That makes a statement about any corridor when you see that sign. No, you can't because they clearly said it's the first amendment, right? Correct, that's what I'm saying. We can't control the signage Right, okay any other discussion Okay, we have a motion we have a second and I haven't opined about it. I'm more comfortable. I understand the First Amendment challenge with what kind of signage you use. If I were in your business, I would hang my shingle out there and say, Dr. Blah, blah, blah, but I can't force that to make it sound to make the optics better that this is a physician's supervised business, not Fred's pain shop. So we can't force that, but we certainly honor the time and effort it takes to become a physician, either an MD or DO. And the fellowships that are accompanying that before you're allowed to practice gives me a little more comfort with that. Anybody else? Damn. The only comment I'd like to make is I admire these doctors that give these back injections. I've had them done and I've had it. I've had them done by a series, but I have a problem with them being on our highway. So that's the only thing I went to medical center. I was not prescribed any pain drugs at all. I just got injections, totally different things, but that doesn't mean that all the doctors do that. So I have a concern with that. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate it. Anyone else? Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Commissioner Martin. No. Vice Mayor Perine. No. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. Thank you, much appreciate that and thank you senior planner Baker Madam city attorney Is that is there one to go 9 F 9 F okay? Perfect Would you please read by title only ordinance number 4824. Ordinance number 4824. In ordinance of the city of New Sumerna Beach authorizing New Sumerna Beach utilities to enter into a grant agreement with the state of Florida Department of Environmental Protection for a subject to sewer project in SilverSans for a term exceeding four years. Providing for public hearing, providing for conflicting ordinances, providing for conflicting ordinances, providing for severability, and providing an effective date. Thank you, Ben. Appreciate that. And turn it over to Assistant City Manager. He's not here. So I'll go. Okay, you'll get it. Count it. In August 2023, the NSP utilities applied for a grant through the state. They were awarded the grant about $7 million. That is not going to be sufficient to complete the entire project. So the agreement that they have with the state, it does include extension as well. But because the term limits of the grant is more than five years, the legislation requires the utilities through the grant to get the commission approval on this. That's why it's coming before you. So this is for the septic to sewer conversion in the Silver Sands area. This was as a result of your joint meeting with the utilities two meetings ago that we had with them We had the septic to sewer presentation to both the N.H.P utilities and the city commission We wanted to have one project in the city here. We applied for the two, but they received theirs theirs we did not receive ours. With that may or I will be more than happy to answer any questions that you might have. Any questions for the city manager on this topic for the subject to sewer project or the Silver Saints? Very good. Public hearing is now open and any citizens wish to give us their opinion on this topic for the citizens wish to give us their opinion on this topic. Floor of the years. Seeing none, public participants now closed. Any discussion by the commission? Anybody have a comment or a question? Very well. Can I have a motion then to adopt ordinance number 4824? I'll make that motion. So motion. Second. Second Madam City clerk, please call the roll. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Vice Mayor Pring. Yes. Commissioner McGurt. Yes. Yes. Motion is carried. Very good. We'll move on to first readings. Madam City Attorney, if you'll read the following words for the first time by title only. Second reading and public hearing will be also conducted on August 27, 2024. Ordinance number 4924. In ordinance of the City of News, Mernivic, Mending ordinance number 6323 to revise user charges for the collection of garbage and household trash, yard trash and household receptacles. Providing for public hearing, providing for conflicting ordinances, providing for severability, and providing an effective date. Second reading and public hearing will be August 27th, 2024. Ordnance number 5024. In ordinance of the City of Newsmen of Beach, rezoning 0.34 plus or minus acres of property located generally on the southwest corner of 7th Avenue in South Atlantic from B2 neighborhood business district to B4 ocean commercial district providing for conflicting ordinances providing for severability and providing an effective date. Second reading and public hearing will be August 27, 2024. Thank you ma'am. Appreciate that. Reminder August 27, 2024 will be the second reading of the public hearing. So move on to our boards and commissions. Madam City Clerk, all yours. Sure. Yes, good evening. We have a vacancy that is on the housing authority. It was vacated by Mr. Grover Miller who used to be a resident commissioner on the housing authority. He has recently moved from that location and so the vacancy called for somebody that lives in that Housing development to serve a term on the board. We have received one application and a recommendation from the executive director of the housing authority Theresa Pope the applicant's name is Will DeBennett. She lives at 9-11 O'Leanter Street Department 204, and she is interested in consideration for possible appointment to fill that vacancy on the board. Perfect. Is there a motion to appoint Will DeBennett to serve as resident commissioner on the Housing Authority for an unfilled term expiring August 31, 2026. So moved. So moved. Second, I have spoken with Theresa Pope and former Commissioner Riker about this appointment. My concern was the limited amount of time has been it has been here in the area. It's she'd been here a little bit longer and this facility has only been in operation for two months So she's new she was the one she is the lady who offered her home as an open house For all that were present on that day to look around so she's got a lot of spirit and energy for this I I support this nomination Madam city clerk, please call the roll Commissioner Martin. Yes, vice mayor Perine. Yes, Commissioner call the roll. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Vice Mayor Parine. Yes. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Thank you. Congratulations, Miss Bennett. The City Clerk will send you a official notification. Thank you for stepping up for your city. All right. On the next one, Kelly, this utility commission went. Sure. We have a utilities commission appointments that are coming up. Currently we have two gentlemen that have, they're the incumbents of the utilities commission and let me see, I'm sorry. I just lost my page in them. Sorry. Yeah. Good job. and let me see, I'm sorry. I just lost my page in the. Sorry, yeah. Thank you, Tom. Rick Haas and Lawrence Kelly. They are interested in being considered to serve a second term. Members on the Utilities Commission can serve up to three terms. I always check with the Utilities Commission and their interim director, Eiffren Chavez, did recommend both current members to be considered for reappointment. This board in particular in the past, the commission has asked me to also include other applications. I have received three in our system from John Elnitsky, Paul Flynn, James Halfway, and we also have another one from Bart Gaitjen. Mr. Gaitjen's wanted to be considered for appointment consideration, but he does live in Titusville, which would mean that the City Commission at your pleasure, if you wanted to, wave the residency requirement you could. In all fairness. We've waived it, you've waived it before for technical requirements and knowledge as well as term limits. So it's just something to consider. So tonight it's commission's pleasure either to make a motion to reappoint both members or we can, you can bring it back on the 27th to allow for more time. I can tell you that the Utilities Commission does have a meeting on the 26, but both of the current members that are up for re-appointment of their terms last until the 9th of September. Or you can vote, I do have voting ballots, but it doesn't have Mr. Gagin's name on it, which I can add again up to your pleasure. I'd like to make the motion to reappoint the two current members to serve three more. Second. As a more discussion. I have read parts of the new applicants resume, which is impressive as a retired utility commission, utility executives. So, best I can tell, it would be the only member of the utility commission that is a practitioner of the trade. And so I don't know. Anyway, I'd like each of my colleagues to check it out and see, you know, then look this resume over and see if it resonates with you. I get concerned about a for-profit organization tied to the city that has no professional qualifications on their board other than willing folks that are good people that want to come in and volunteer. I like to fact this guy is a retired executive in the business. Similarly Admiral Elnyski is a retired energy executive. And so those are the talent level that I think I'd like to at least consider and take a look at. I know that Mr. Scott and that Mr. Haas have done great work since they've been there. We've had collegial conversations, but I don't know what their skillsets are outside of good folks that want to do good work. I think there may be a day coming when our for-profit organization may get called into focus about the oversight that the CEO doesn't have today with any skill sets of what the business is about. And as we continue to develop that commission as the future and as growth comes, as the oversight body, I worry that we may not be doing all that we can do to make sure that that group has a check in balance just like our group does. Anyway, that's my two cents. So I'm like, well, I was just questioning. I thought that the NSBU was a not-for-profit corporation for the benefit of the rate payers. Yeah, they make money. I understand that, but I believe that as part of our charter, they are stated to be a not-for-profit corporation for the benefit of the ratepayers. And I could be wrong. But am I right or wrong? Who are you? I'm right. So it is a not-for-profit corporation for the benefit of the ratepayers. Just one clarity on that one. Thanks. So I understand, Mayor, what you're saying, I generally agree with it, fundamentally agree with it. And I will say that I am excited that we have these kind of applicants applying now. That generally hasn't been the case. We have a lot of new people coming in with some very interesting credentials. And I certainly see in the future these kinds of people getting on our boards. What I just generally don't do, because I've seen some nastiness and politics, as long as an individual has not done anything egregious or unethical, I afford them the ability to serve out available terms. And that's why I'm not going to consider the other applicants, although their applications are very impressive. But I look forward to when they will have a chance to come before the commission. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? Ms. Ma'am. I know the person I know is very well-qualified. And I looked at his credentials, what you're saying. My thought process in this was that we have some turnover within that organization right now with Mr. Bunch and also with the attorney. So I thought it would be better if we had some stability and kept the existing and they both come highly recommended by others on the board. I received the phone calls and that's why I made the motion to retain those two. No other reason as nothing to do with the other applicants. Appreciate that, anybody else? It's irrelevant to me whether the board, whether the group is for profit or not, It's nice for you to point that out, but I think it's irrelevant Parine. Yes. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Harbman. Yes. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. No. Thank you. City Clerk, the motion carries. All right. Time for the Commission and Mayor's report. Commissioner Hartman. Let me pull it up. So I had the privilege to attend in the backpact, give away on Saturday was a wonderful event. Miss Terry, I'm sorry, she left already, but she did a fantastic job pulling that together. The individual who usually coordinates that has some health issues this time. And she and her staff and with the volunteer of a lot of others, city personnel, police fire, and even internal people pulled that thing off. It was a wonderful event. There were a lot of happy kids, a lot of happy parents. I think we gave out over 500 backpacks that day. So it was a fantastic event. Had a lot of funnel cakes, icies, hot dogs, all that. Hopefully. It was fantastic. So we're certainly going to appreciate that. Attended the promotional ceremony today for the police department. It's a great feeling to see those young people coming up through the ranks and knowing the leadership over there is going to have them prepared to go even further along in their careers. They were all very committed to the job, committed to the city. So it's very encouraging to see those types of people. And from a small department, you don't get those opportunities a whole lot of times. So it was fantastic to see those five promotions today. It's truly a compliment to the chief on his organization and what his people do. And also the staffing that even earlier chief coffin had hired and brought into the department. So I certainly did appreciate that. I talked to an individual the other day that had an issue with the engineering department and had some questions and concerns and had to go up to engineering. Presented as problems as questions. Set down with Jesse. Told him what the issue was. Jesse said, have a seat. I'll get back to you. Did some research. Called the back end. Told the guy exactly. He said, the gentleman I would talk to you said, he'd never been treated so respectfully before from anybody in any other building environment. So it was a great, acclates towards Jesse and the staff that we have up there in the engineering department. He says he's, I felt like a true human being. And it really did appreciate it, the time and effort that everybody even, to the receptions, took to make sure that he was heard. They found his answers or answers to his questions. And he was really completely tickled to death about that. And then the only question I had, the parking studies, are an expected completion day for the parking consultant to finish that work? Yes, we had a, of the matter of fact, we had a meeting with the consultant this morning. So on the 20, whatever the second meeting in September, I think it's a 24 that they will present to you, but they will meet with you individually to go over the draft reports on the 9th of September. OK, that's all I had. Thank you. You sure? Mr. Martin? Just, I'm sorry to miss that promotional. It's been quite a day with the beach site projects. Just a note for anybody who's listening that the parking problems article put out by the hometown news last Friday has a lot of inaccuracies. And we are hoping that the city will come out with a statement soon to clarify what's really going on. I just don't want anybody to follow that through. And that's it for right now. Thank you. Vice Mayor. I just want to contribute to also what Colled said to Commissioner McGurk, did a great job with the airport meaning and very controversial things but I think it was very explanatory and what we can and can't do based on federal regulations, based on city, and it was nice to have that many citizens show up. We have so many hot topics in our city like tonight, but I like that everybody is actually civil, and I appreciate all of that because it's not always easy to be civil when you're passionate about something and I think you did a great job mayor regulating all of that and Commissioner McGurk as well with our meeting this week. Our jobs aren't easy up here and these things we have to weigh everything so we appreciate all your feedback. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate that. Commissioner McGurk. Thank you, Mayor. You know, thank you for the comments. I think I need to thank all the people who showed up who were civilized and wanted to actually work on the issues they wanted to vent and they did. But the tone of the meeting stayed very positive and I appreciate you guys all coming in and looking at that. My role kind of I didn't necessarily plan to play that much of a role more sit back but I think it went well. I think it was probably the most productive airport meaning noise issue that we've had in many years and what I, recommendations that is reasonable to both sides. So I thank you for the comments on that. It was a great meeting, very productive. The low hanging fruit on that meeting ended up being the morning timeframe. I was after all the years of talking about this issue with many people in these three neighborhoods, that really hadn't been communicated. And yet the common theme was, hey, just don't fly these planes in repetition so early. So I am optimistic that that one issue, which seemed to be the most prevalent one, is going to be some low hanging fruit there and we can and we'll be able to help solve their problem at least on that issue. My comment during public comment it was it was was not typical that I make a comment but I did not want the an individual making an accusation that alluded to we are not talking to them. We won't answer them. So I just wanted to make sure that everybody understood why I did that. That's what he, the gentleman was alluded to that we're not willing to tell them or talk to them. So I'll make sure I refrain from that in the future. Mayor, I know you're trying to run a good tight meeting. And Chief, my apologies for missing the promotion. I intended to make it. I got caught up in stuff. I couldn't get away from. But what a great job. I did see the pictures on social media. And it looked great. And I'm excited to see those individuals with promotions and as you continue to lead the police department. Thank you. Thank you, sir. I've just got a few comments to Commissioner McGurk. I think in addition to representing each zone, we've been asked to lead. And so, at these meetings, zone by zone, when the opportunities to have things go awry, and we've had many airport noise meetings that were just out of control, for us, Arvon, and you, and the citizens to have come together with some ideas for how to really make a difference. Yes, on the timing for delayed starts for airplane goes. The second one was the extension of the downwind leg that both aviators and non-aviators said, if you just ran it a little bit farther, you would go past my house before you made the turn. And a couple aviators in the room said, yep, that's exactly right. They go right over that. So those are two that are pretty dog on easy extending that downwind leg on I can't remember whether it was one way two five or or not that and the the delay time would be great so really well done and great to have all the city residents show up and demonstrate true resolve to solve a problem, not just to pile on. We made two, we made three sergeants today and two corpoles today, and the glow on their faces and their families faces was palpable. The police department is humming along the connectivity between the past and the future as present. There were youngsters there that just, you know, they just got promoted to corporal. There was one sergeant there who served 20 years in the Navy prior to joining the police force. And now he's starting a second career with all the wisdom that he had from his years in prior service. So I think we've got the greatest combination of folks, young and old, men and women who really want to make a difference in our city, and they know they're supported by this commission and Mr. Rasha.staff and the residents of our community. Kevin, welcome. We put the fun in dysfunctional. So, we try hard. You see that we're not a surface level rubber stamp organization. We do delve into the facts and figures, not to get in your way, but just to make sure that every rock has been turned over. And so, that's how this group is operated. I can't speak for the past, but I can tell you that that's what we do here. And it's all meant to be helpful and not to meant to be obstruction. So thank you for joining us. I'm delighted at the public participation tonight. The red shirts are gone for those of you that are watching from TV. There's no one in the room. There are very few of us left in the room. But you know that something's up when the room fills up. And so that is their ability to exercise citizenry by coming in and saying what's on their minds, what they're feeling. So I admire that 100%. At the same time, we don't all know the rules. I didn't know the rules set before I got up here about quasi-judicial hearings, impartiality until you hear evidence. And that's the place that the lawyer has got to continue to re-knit the button that teaches both from the Dias and into the crowd, why quasi-judicial hearings are important to be impartial, and not to have leaked out your opinion and disqualify yourself from sitting up here in judgment. So it's very important for us to do that, so we can continue to demonstrate the city's business. That concludes me. You've had a big night's city attorney if you got anything in your report, ma'am. Yes, I had a couple of things tonight. First, I before you, there's an amendment to the contract that we have with Smith, Bigman Brock and Smith for attorney Sarah Meetz. This is regarding the air gate eviction matter. This started in December of 22. It's been unusually long process. What's happened is the tenant has filed counter claims against the city alleging grant insurance violations and federal claims, which triggered our insurance coverage. The eviction is not part of the insurance coverage. So through the insurance coverage, you have to engage the insurance council. So managing those schedules along with the complexities with those counterclaims has added to the already delayed case. So this amendment would increase the cap on the eviction portion of the matter by $25,000. And so I'm looking for a motion to approve that amendment. And this is your recommendation as well. Yes. So our motion to approve the extension in the $25,000. I'll make the motion. Second. Motion second. Any other discussion? Carrie, will this continue? Should we expect more? Is it getting deeper? Are you coming to a closer? It's very, it's really hard to say. I would like the eviction portion to be closed out. I imagine the other portion of it would drag on. But I really can't predict. Any other questions or comments? There's a motion and a second Madam City Clerk please call the roll. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Vice Mayor Prane. Yes. Mayor Thayland. Yes. Thank you. Martin yes vice mayor Pring yes yes yes thank you okay we also have labor council standing by I'm not sure how to link him in there's we but we're gonna zoom somebody in yeah okay so we've had our request there is for an external investigation into some matters that have occurred within the city Okay, so we've had our request there is for an external investigation into some matters that have occurred within the city. Are you here? Any Wayne? Can you hear us? I can hear you. Can you hear me? We can. Go right ahead sir. Yes sir. We can hear you. Go ahead. You can hear me. We can hear you fine. Go right ahead. Okay. All right. the city's labor and the council. Yes, sir. We can hear you go ahead. You can hear me. We can hear you fine. Go right ahead. Okay. All right. Good evening, Mayor commissioners. As the city's labor and reform the council. I'm asking the commission to authorize an investigation into complaints. brought to the attention of a city by several city employees. Because the complaints in part involve employees who report directly to the city commission and not the city manager. It's my opinion as your labor employment attorney that the decision of whether to conduct an investigation into these complaints must be made by the city commission and not the city manager. The names of the employees involved in the details of the allegations are at this point being kept confidential. We're soon to requirements of law. It's not appropriate tonight this meeting therefore to discuss the particulars of these allegations. You've been made aware of these complaints in any written documents you've been furnished are confidential at this point in the process. So the only decision that needs to be made tonight is first of all, whether to conduct an investigation into the allegations. And secondly, if so, who should conduct that investigation? So with regard to whether the allegations Secondly, if so, who should conduct that investigation? So with regard to whether the allegations should be subject to an investigation, it's my recommendation is your Labor and Reform Council that such an investigation, in fact, be undertaken. In my view, doing so will enable an investigator to determine the validity of the allegations and thereafter enable you as the commission to determine what action if any should be taken in response to the results of the investigation. Authorizing an investigation will likewise insulate the city from any contention that the allegations have been ignored or haven't been taken seriously. So it's frankly my belief that the City Commission really has no alternative in my view but to offer as an investigation into these allegations. With regard to who should conduct the investigation in light of the nature and extent of the allegations. I recommend that the city retain the services of an outside independent investigator with experience conducting these types of investigations. So I furnished to you two proposals for individuals to potentially conduct the investigation. One is from Vicki Sprote. She is an attorney with a law firm of boy, Agnew, Ponderbick, Miller, and Fort Myers. Vicki, you have her credentials, but she's board certified in both trial law and labor employment law. She's a veteran conducting workplace investigations for municipal county and other governmental entities throughout Florida. She's conducted hundreds of very sensitive and complex investigations for various public entities. She's got a bachelor's degree from Dennis and University in a law degree from Ohio State. Her hourly rate for conducting this investigation, she's proposed would be $275 per hour. The second proposal is from another attorney, Scott Simpson, he's an attorney with Scott Simpson, PA in Norman Beach. He specializes in city, county, and local government law. He currently serves as a city attorney for the cities of Polly Hill and Oak Hill. He was formerly the city attorney for South Dayton. He holds both his bachelors and law degrees from Stetson. He has conducted workplace investigations for a number of entities and charged for his time at $200 per hour. So, given all that, at this time I'd be glad to take any questions before you deliberate and vote on this. Okay, any questions for Mr. Helzby? Commissioner Martin? Yeah, I thought I understood you to say that we had received all the documentation for these issues. I do not have all the documentation in my possession. I don't know if anybody else does. I don't believe. I have no reason to believe that I are two sort of separate but interrelated issues and it's not clear to me whether we're talking about one or both. So to the extent that you do not have the documentation will be certainly we'll get it to you. Thank you. Thank you. That's not a problem. The the your second question there have been different allegations brought by different individuals and yes all of those are interrelated and would be investigated. It wouldn't just be allegations from one particular person. There are allegations from several. Okay. If that answers your question. I hope so. It's hard to know because obviously for confidentiality reasons, I believe it does. You have any questions? Commissioner Hartman, go right ahead. I would just like to make sure that we're clear on the number of investigations going because at an hourly rate, I don't want people going fishing or, you know, here say kind of things. I want to know specifically that we're talking about one issue or two issue or three issues or, you know know if we can have that some kind of insurance that that's what we're headed. I don't want to I'm cautious about just open ended going come do an investigation. Yeah, no I understand. I have looked back through the documentation and the investigation would certainly be confined. There are, from my estimation, about three to four, perhaps five different column sets of allegations that need to be looked into. And again, they're all fairly interrelated. I would not permit an investigator to simply investigate matters outside of those if that's one of your questions but without going into any great detail about what the allegations are and who made them that's about as good as I can tell you right now that it certainly would be confined. And you know, we make sure that any investigator hired would know the parameters of what they're investigating. Having said that, I will say that having done these investigations myself, I know that sometimes you get into these investigations and begin asking questions and sometimes some tentacles develop and you have to, you know, and to, in the interest of being thorough, you have to look through some of these things but I would certainly do my best to try to confine into the allegations that thus far have been made. If that helps. Thank you. And I also, I'm not interested in doing any and obnominous inquiries. You know, if somebody can't put their name on a piece of paper, then, you know, I don't think it's warrants the time or the energy. So my personal opinion. You know, that means something that I would want to leave in the hands of the investigator that's chosen to be honest with you. That to me is something that one who does investigations for a living hopefully will know whether that's something that they think should be investigated or not. I understand you're concerned. All right. Any other questions for the attorney, is there Mr. McGurk? Wayne, I share some of the same feelings with Commissioner Hartman. I wanna make sure that we all understand and agree on what the investigation is about. The, you know, we're in a unique situation because this is a person that reports to us. And due to sunshine law, it basically sets the framework up that we can't, we have to rely on this outside investigation. It's very unique to, it's a very unique circumstance. So aside from knowing exactly what we're going to task the investigator with, which I do agree I think we need to hire an investigator. At two to three hundred dollars an hour, I also would like to move forward in a context that we pick if we pick somebody They need the very first thing is they need to we They need to give us an estimate back on what they think The expenses will be so I'm also very concerned about open-ended Investigations, um, they'll have to be a financial limit to it. I want to be very diligent in how we proceed forward with this. Understood. The only thing I can say, Commissioner, is this. I've been representing the City of Newspaper Beach now for I think almost 30 years. So I think you're going to have to, to some extent, rely on me to, and I've heard what you've had to say all of you. But rely on me to be sure that this investigation is confined to the allegations that have been made and does inspire a lot of control. And I assure you I'll do that. I understand and I'm sensitive to the financial implications. So all I can tell you is that I will do my best. Whoever you decide to hire to make sure that that investigator knows exactly what it is that we expect them to be investigating and establish parameters and you know do something that makes sense both from an investigative perspective and a financial one. Thank you. Attorney, please walk me through a process or with some timing and some protocol also I'd like to thank you all for your time. I'm very excited to be here with you. Please walk me through a process or with some timing and some protocol. Also and like your city attorney's advice on which of these candidates you think would be the best fit. You've heard us with our anxiety over that this is happening at all and the sensitivity about how we conduct ourselves during sunshine. So maybe you can help us understand how the process would work, what the timing would be, and that this person would work under your direct supervision. So I'm assuming there's a scope of work that you would lay out and say here is the boundaries, here is what I know to date, et cetera, et cetera. Give us a little more context with how much time we can expect, what the process is, how often we hear from you. And is that in the public domain or is that in the shade? I'm fascinated to know and I'm scared to death to know, because it's all in, you know, as Commissioner McGurk said, this is uncomfortable for such a, you know, when you talk about people that are working directly for commission, they are senior people on our staff. And so all those are concerns. If you can address them, I'd appreciate it. Sure. So in terms of the process, I've done a number of these investigations myself. Obviously, I'm not in position to do this one. But if it were me that we're conducting this investigation I would first begin by having interviews with those who are making the allegations. To be sure I knew the the complete extent of what it is that they've all left. And thereafter after they've identified what their allegations are, I would then go to the people who they've identified as individuals who may be witnesses to it or who are otherwise involved. And you know, that process, what I like to do, and I would assume an investigator we hired, it likewise do would be to try to group those interviews into a confined period of time and not try to spread them out over a long period of time. Hopefully that can be done. And it really depends just on how many people ultimately need to be interviewed. I would think that in this context, you're probably talking about interviewing a number of different people, but hopefully those interviews could take place over the span of two or three days of interviews. This is my best guess. So that's the way I would conduct it. I'm assuming that initially part would likely do the same thing. As you know, sometimes it's difficult to schedule these things. And people are invocations and things of that nature. So I would imagine that an investigator that we hired by the time they look through the various documents and things of that nature set up interviews. And then that person will actually write a report, a written report, to you summarizing the results of their investigation. I would think all of that would probably take a good month or maybe even longer to accomplish, would be kind of just a ballpark guess on how long that would take. In terms of it being in the public domain, the actual investigation itself is not, it's confidential, while the investigation is undergoing, ongoing. So any of the interviews, any of the documents that are generated, that sort of thing are all not in the public domain during the course of the investigation and would remain that way until the investigation is concluded. Once the report has been prepared and finalized and given to you, then it becomes in the public domain. It's subject to public disclosure and the record itself and any of the interviews if the interviews are recorded, which typically they are, become in the public domain. Thereafter, the report would go to you. There would be no recommendations in the report in terms of what action, if any, you might take as a result of the investigation. I would think the investigator would be tasked instead with making conclusions as to the validity of the allegations and whether those allegations are sustained the policy violations that might be as a result of those sustained allegations. And then it would be up to you in a public meeting to determine what if anything you as a commission would do as a result of the investigation. Does that part of it kind of give you? It helps a lot. Okay. I'm assuming that you or our city attorney and be clear for us here will look out for the commission's best interest. Who the investigator will do whatever the scope of work is, I'm assuming you write up, right? And the report, that would fall in my lap, for sure. I would be certainly the one who would make, you know, the safeguarding the interest in the commission. And then the report is made, you will have seen the report. And then who at that point guides the commission. And then the report is made. You will have seen the report. And then who at that point guides the commission on possible remedies. Is that something you would do or are city attorney or how does that go from there on? I haven't talked to Kerry about that yet, but I would assume that at that point it would likely be me that would guide you in terms of the conclusions of the report and what if any Options you have in terms of taking any action if there is any to take Right and if there are any that will be from this dias and in the public. Yeah Those discussions are not private correct, okay very good Now in terms of who to recommend among the two are not private. Correct. Okay. Very good. Now, in terms of who to recommend among the two that I've given to you, I will say that the, of the two, the one that I know the best is Vicky Sprote. I have served on the Florida bars trial or sections executive committee. I don't any longer, but I did for about 12 years and I she was on the board. So I got to know her very well and I have used her to conduct investigations for other municipal entities. And I find her to be exceptionally qualified and especially in these kinds of matters that are very sensitive. So I know her better. I know her work. I know her abilities and that sort of thing. So I certainly am very high on her. Scott, I don't know as well. I've run into him just briefly in the context over the years of his role as a city attorney in a couple of those entities I mentioned. I do know that he has recently been asked to conduct an investigation for an entity. I think it's a private entity not for profit. And I heard very good things about his investigative abilities in that regard. So I certainly don't mean to downplay him. I just know Vicki better. That's all. Got it. One more, please. Is it appropriate for us to set a dollar amount on how this goes forward or how do you classically do that? With our you heard to at least two commissioners talk about physical responsibility. So we're relatively thrifty here. Understood. Yeah. Understood. No, I get that. Well, you certainly could try. I don't know that if it were me and I was doing the investigation, I would tell you that it's awfully difficult to kind of set that kind of thing. But certainly you could make that determination if you wanted to and in hopes that whichever investigator you selected with the willing to accept some sort of max or something like that. Yeah, not not Obviously they can be extended and we've extended people's time and again. Do you have an opinion about that? Carrie should we set a financial Max some like you know, you just got 25,000 more for airgate Should we start in that direction or should we leave it open ended? What's your opinion? I think as Wayne pointed out that there could be other things that need to be explored. So I would leave it up to Wayne. You know, he's looking out for your fiduciary interest. So I would leave it up to him. Man. Just a bit of a potential compromise. I presumably, the chosen attorney would do a quick assessment and say, yeah, we've got a lot of digging to do here. Or perhaps, I think this is something that could be resolved fairly quickly. Is there any possibility for that little bit of a compromise? Because these are people's lives and their reputations and their jobs that we're talking about here. I think we need to be as careful as we can be with them. But sometimes you walk in and you say, hey, you know, this is just a misunderstanding. We can resolve it quickly or no, we've got some work to do here. Is there a view? Yeah, they have a view on that? Wayne. I'm familiar with the allegations that have been made. And it's possible that one or more of these allegations might be looked at by an investigator as being characterized as you characterize them, perhaps, you know, some misunderstandings or a personality conflict and, you know, may not require a lengthy investigation into them. I would hope that an investigator, and I would think either one of these two would do this, would look at the allegations and kind of sort some of those out and not, I should say, you know, still do an investigation, but not do a thorough investigation into those kinds of matters if they simply in the investigators views, you know, or more kind of personality conflicts and misunderstandings in that sort of thing. I would like to leave that up to the investigator to decide that, put that in my hand. Sure. Well, I don't think I was saying for us to make that decision, but just a simple analysis where, this is something we might be able to clear up in a few, or this is some really thorny issues here. Just not to constrain that person in any way, but just, you know, my first take on the situation is, there's X number of easy and Y number of, these are tough nuts, here we gotta work on. And that may be not a reasonable ask. I'm just trying. Wayne, you might be able to set us at ease by you giving us a drum beat update without a conclusion. This is smaller than a red box. No, this is bigger. It will go on and give us an update sooner than later based on how fast the investigator makes the initial synopsis. You, we would look to you. If we could look to you for that type of thing that would probably give us some comfort. Well, I had to do it. Sure. I mean, that's good. I think that's good. A good way to do it. Any other questions for Councillor Helsby? Is there a motion? I'll make a motion to go with Vicki Sprout. Okay. Second. A motion to go with Vicki Sprout and a second, any more discussion? Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Vice Mayor Prane. roll. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Vice Mayor Prane. Yes. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Mayor Clayton. Yes. Thank you very much. So yes, Wayne, we're following your advice. Any other remarks you need to make us aware of? No. No. I'm at the documentation. Yeah I'm not sure what what documentation there is but as long as all of us have the same thing that's a good thing. I will I will make sure that happens. Yeah everybody has the same. Very good. Okay well thank you so much appreciate that sir. You're welcome. And appreciate your report before I look forward to hearing from you sooner than later. All right, have a nice evening. You too. Okay. Yes. City clerk, your report, ma'am. you you you you you you