Welcome to the March 2025 meeting of the Community Planning and Preservation Commission for the City of St. Petersburg. This commission reviews proposed changes to the comprehensive plan, land use and zoning, as well as historic preservation related proposals and makes recommendations to the City Council. Our agenda today includes presentations. Staff, the applicant, and any registered opponent each have approximately 10 minutes for their presentation. After the presentations, each member of the public who wishes to address the commission will have three minutes to speak. When called on to speak, please step up to the podium, state your name, and address. We ask that you make your remarks brief and not repetitive of prior testimony. All questions are redirected to me as chair, and I will in turn redirect the questions the appropriate person for response. At the conclusion of these steps, the commission will enter into executive session. Commissioners may ask at any time, commissioners may ask questions at any time during the process upon being recognized by the chair. At this time, I ask that all cell phones be silenced. So also at this time, please welcome me and welcoming TRIVA Davis to our commission board. Welcome. Thank you for being here being here. Commissioner Davis, if you'd like, would you like to say a few words and reduce yourself? Sure, I'm TRIVA Davis. Born and raised in St. Petersburg, Florida. And I'm very excited to serve the city, graduated from Lake White High School, also undergrad degree from Florida A&M University, and Massachusetts degree from Florida International University and I'm excited to serve. Thank you so much. Iris, can we have Rokal? Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, yes. Okay. Marbe. Gardner. Magnello. Here. Carasco. Here. Davis. Here. Jeffrey. Nelson. Here. Wanamaker. Here. Michaels. Here. And Drake. Okay, and we have a quorum. Thank you so much. At this time, can we please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation with liberty and justice for all. So if you wish to speak at this meeting, I do ask that you remain standing and raise your right hand and Iris will swear you in. You swear or affirm that the evidence you get today will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thank you, I may just see that. Thank you. And please also fill out a green comment card at the front podium and hand to Iris. And that's for public comment. If they're already a part of the applicant party, you don't need to fill out a separate green card if you are listed on the agenda as part of the application. I apologize it's my second well first time doing this. Next on the agenda is the approval of the meeting minutes from last month. Are there any discussion or comments? Motion to approve last month's meeting notes? We have a second A second Great minutes are approved. Well, we need to take a vote. We can be all in favor. I'm sorry So if there are no corrections the minutes we've taken the motion, all those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Minutes are approved. Next is the public comment portion of this meeting. Is there anyone here that wishes to speak on anything that is not on the agenda today, you will have three minutes to do so. Okay. Seeing none, at this time, I will ask Iris to read the first item into the record. Okay, and this is city file number 24-902-00141, which was continued from February 11th, 2025. The request is a review of a certificate of appropriateness application for the installation of stone-coded steel roofing at the Custer More residence, a local historic landmark. The owners are Larry and Cynthia Geckin, the agent is Jeremy Wood, and that address again is, I'm sorry, that address is 1014 Alhambra way south and the staff presenter in this case is Kelly Perkins. All right, good afternoon Kelly Perkins historic preservation is the city of St. Pete yes, we are here for Continuence for the customer residents. It is a local landmark that was designated in 2013. It was built in 1925. As a good example of Mediterranean revival architecture. Here are photographs of it from when it was first constructed. Here are more recent photographs. When it was designated, the first character defining feature listed was a low pitched roof with barrel tile. According to Google Earth, the peak of the roof is 24 feet from grade. Last meeting, there are questions about what the roofing material was, a staff said it was Mission Barrel, and the applicant stated that it was Spanish S. As you can see here, it is a mission barrel tile where you have the overlapping tiles. This can, there's not a huge difference, but it does create a deeper profile in the appearance because Spanish S is typically a flatter between the two arches and a lot of the metal roof appears to try and imitate the Spanish-S. The original request was for the stone-coded metal tile. The commission asked for continuance to look at other alternative materials because it did not have the visual profile of a clay barrel tile. Safs stated they were recommending for a clay barrel tile. We found that the original request did not meet the criteria. We received three more materials to review a queen tile Verona, a decaravilla tile, and a warehouse super ar aroofing. They also provided the tile to staff as a comparison. So I measured the arch height, the length of the tile, and the arch circumference, and compared it to each proposal, as you can see here. The arch height is about half the size. Knowing that these overlap, they generally are going to be taller than three inches because you have the curve down as well as the height. But that height depends on how its installative staff cannot provide that exact number. The arch circumference is about half the size of the barrel tile. There was the deck reveal tile. It had a archite that was three inches. It was two inches longer than the tile, and the arch circumference was only four and a half inches. Staff had some concerns about the thickness of the tile, compared to the barrel tile, and also found that it was not a visual comparison. And then we received this metal tile. Well, it had the closest and finish. It did not have the same profile, height, shape. It appears to actually be a mimic of a French tile rather than a clay barrel tile. We also sent a request to other historic preservation divisions across the state. And their experience with Stonecoded Medal, responses we received was that they'd never heard of anyone approving it, or that their commission had denied an application for Stonecoded Medal, and a summary of the responses we received are there. So staff still finds that the other alternatives still do not meet our criteria for the granting of safety of appropriateness or alterations. We also found that the substitute materials do not meet the criteria set by preservation brief 16, the use of substitute materials on historic building exteriors. So therefore staff is still recommending denial of the request, but that we could approve if the new roofing shall use mission style clay barrel tile roofing with a color variation to match the existing roof. And that is the end of my presentation. Thank you. Thank you. So does the applicant have an updated presentation? And do we is there a time limit on this one too? Doesn't matter just walk up when you walk up to the podium just state your name and address again and then we'll get started My name is Jeremy Wood addresses 925 60th Street South Golfport Florida 33707 my office is located in Paul metal I am here on behalf of mr. Grassmouth. Thank you guys, and it's my second time at this too. Also Mr. Chairwoman Appreciate it. So I don do it right, let me know. So we asked you guys to come by. I get to you guys to some more samples. I don't want to argue all the samples. I would like to focus on the Deckerville that has the same profile as a high edge of three inches that some of the criteria do match the same size and point. The biggest thing that we have to do is not make a lateral movement with these historic homes. We've got to make a home improvement. These homes are changing every day, our weather's changing. Images of the Deckerville tile rust a clay, looks pretty darn close to Larry's roof with the elevations and also with the shading of the panel. The Deckerville of the nation gold is a little bit lighter, the profile and the height of the De. The Decraville Venetian Gold is a little bit lighter. The profile and the height of the Decra is also three inches like the Spanish S. Now this also is 16 inches, but there's only 14 and a half inches exposed the same as a mission clay tile. So dimensions compared to measuring, measure a tape measure on it compared to when it's installed of what's exposed and what is seen and foreseen is a thing. Now, Queen's tile, we'll go past that one. Let's make sure you stay up by them. Okay. You can tell me about that. So, here's the biggest thing about the metal of changing of the stone coated steel compared to a clay tile. Per FBC, Florida Building Code, Wind Resistance of a Deckerville tiles installed on a batten system has a design pressure of negative 153.16 screws per panel. That's a 2.19 ratio. It's about a 335-mile-narr wind until this panel blows off. A clay tile will have a negative 66.5 pounds per square foot at a 145 miles an hour with a foam application, which is a chemical application, and the tile roofs are not watertight. So that chemical application of that foam is going to be 146 miles an hour today, 24 hours when they put it in the wind test at PRI. In five years, that foam is going to break down and that roof is not going to be as strong, and it's not going to protect that historic home as well as a stone coated steel will. So you have twice the wind speed with a third of the weight. Also there's also pictures there's open soft that where tongue and groove bead board is also exposed which is a classic tile of the Mediterranean tile house that has open rafters with tongue and groove on it. For us to do a concrete clay tile, we have to nail the underlayment for that clay tile has to be nailed six inches on center, four inches in the drip edge, which means I'm going to take Mr. Gekken's house that has a historic home on it for new code with the underlayment. I'm going to poke holes through the bottom of his softet and change the dynamics of that when I have to install a concrete clay tile on the house. If we do a stone coated steel, this gets installed on a baton application, those screws for that baton will go directly into the trusses and preserve that Mediterranean look of a soft fit. All the clay tiles will have to be screwed and filmed to meet windry gistens, so then I'm also going to have field screws through that clay tile. That's also the pan tile is going to have to screw through that to meet the wind resistance, which is also going to change his soft-fit area. When I put a 2x4 on, which is only 2 and 3-quarters of an inch high, which is the max height of your cap of a pan and cap clay tile is only 2 and 3-quarters, that sits on a 2x4. Those 2x4 is also guy who nailed through that area. So with a stone coated steel system, I can install this on a baton. I'm not gonna mess up his exposed softets. I'm not. It sits on a 2x4. Those 2x4 is also guy who nailed through that area. So with a stone coated steel system, I can install this on a baton. I'm not going to mess up his exposed softets. I'm not going to do any of that other stuff to ruin the historic value of that house. That new code is going to make me put nails through his exposed Mediterranean style softet with open rafters. Here's a pictures of the open rafters, there's a picture of what you can see for the tunneling groove that is part of that historic home. When we do a new clay tile roof I've got to have a nail four inches on center and that perimeter is going to come through that three quarter inch tunneling groove. That's going to change the dynamics of a historic house by code when you have nails coming through that because we have to build stuff up to better code than when this house bill. So per the IBS research report from Hurricane, because insurance is a major cost and a major problem that we had in the state of Florida. And I'll go to the next page. I hopefully that is the one. OK, no, it's not. There's a report that's attached, and I have it here, with me that should be at the very back of this, or in my presentation, I emailed to you guys. Per the Insurance Board Standard Indication after Hurricane Ian, metal roofs have 12% damage factor that most came from other structures. Concrete tile had 40% of damage. Steep slope metal roof has the highest rating and the least probability of damage occurred during storm see report attached. I don't know if that's at the very end of this or not. It's not, unfortunately. But it is also part of your guys' packet. With that being said, with that insurance control board application, that's going to allow Mr. Geckin to get insurance on a historic home, which is very, very challenging on a house that was built that old. This insurance control board, I talked to a friend of mine that is the CFO of frontline insurance company and in like laboratories and this is who turned me on to this and And in that attachment on you guys have I'll read this to you Steep slope metal roofs less than 20 years old 25% of damage one in 400 year win event 50% of probability of damage one in 800 year win event 75% of damage greater than, one in 800 year win event, 75% of damage, greater than 1 in 1000 year win event. Tile roofs, one in 50 year win event, 25% probability, 50% probability, one in 400 years, 75% probability, one in 700 years. So when you look at an insurance standards in the wind rating wind rating of a stone-coded steel metal roof compared to a concrete tile, Larry's got a 350-year better chance of protecting that home with insurance if he does this stone-coded steel metal roof because of the design performance to protect the structure that's underneath it. And that is right out of the insurance control board standards. So for us to help protect this house, this stone coated steel metal roof, I might be off two and a half inches. As they said, it's 22 foot to the eve and it's over 75 foot from the sidewalk to Larry's house. Clay tile weighs 800 to a thousand pounds per 10 by 10 area. Stone coated steel weighs 120 to 160. When we remove that clay tile, they have hand cut rafters, unlike newer homes that pre-fabricated trusses that distribute the load better with more bracing and more engineers, these are hand cut rafters that are two inches by four inches standard lumber, not nominal lumber. You cannot buy standard two by fours anymore. So over time, any termites, any insects, that weight is pushing down on those rafters and you saw the one pictures of the softwood where there's already water, intrusion, and damage on that. With a stone coated steel roof, it's 100% waterproof. We're not depending on the underlayment. To protect this home, we don't care about what's underneath it. It's gonna let those trusses and those rafters come back to life again. The other lumber has different dimensions, insect damage and other lumber. Further weakens those rafters. The stone coated metal, I can easily repair this roof if something ever happens since they are screwed together. We can get up on that roof, I can take the panel, and I can take my screws right out of the bottom of this nose of this panel, out of this panel, and the one to the right, one to the left. I can take this panel, throw it on the ground, I can take a panel out of Larry's garage, and I can put it back in if you ever has flying debris. Unlike concrete tile that you're depending on the underlayment, we're not to keep this water in this historic home. Waterproof and tight. Stone could have seals 100% water resistance. clay tiles are 50 to 75% water resistance and they depend on that underlayment. So with the underlayment I have to nail. Also. 100% water resistance. Your clay tiles are 50 to 75% water resistance and they depend on that underlayment So with the underlayment I have to nail Also once this next clay tile roof where I put out and you can't get insurance in 20 years He's gonna have another two layers of underlayment with more nails coming through So that's why when you look at all these clay tiles they have we poles at the bottom of the roof because water comes out those We're trying to put a watertight system. I'm off by an inch and a half. I'm off by an inch and a half to make a home improvement compared to a home lateral movement. Stonequad is sealed tiles are far superior in clay in many ways. Three times of wind resistance, easier repair, longer insurance of availability which is hard to find an Historic Home. It's a watertight warranty and it's less stress, less weight on the home. And I'm able to minimize other areas of the home change of parents due to code changes like the SOFIT and the Raptors. I can minimize all that. So attachments are the Decker-Oville product approval, which shows you the wind resistance. This Decoravilla product approval right here shows you. It says, when you install a 1x4 baton with a number 8 course 3 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 off at areas. Then my panel baton is the number 12 by inch and a half hex head long screw panel diameter number eight by quarter three quarter inch long panel head screws panel 10 inches on center Dirted at the death four inches on center panel to panel gives me a negative design pressure of a hundred and fifty three pounds per square foot Two to one ratio two point one nine 335 miles an hour there is over 14 screws screws in a 1449 inch panel that's a mechanical adhesion. Miami Dade Code Clay tile in the attachment I gave you guys. If you look at it, page five. Everybody knows it's in the tile market. Fomes the way to go. Fomes, the best way to go, less penetrations. FOME application, 3M2PONIT, apart FOME tile adhesive, AH160, Yuluichi Spanish tile. Small patty or medium patty, negative 66 and negative 38.7. Thank you very much. Thank you. We break into executive session. Okay. So that concludes the presentation portion of this Continuance. So now we're going to break into executive session. We'd like to maybe just sit in the front row and we'll let you know if you have any questions for you. Okay. Thank you. But anybody like to start? Yeah. Okay. I do have a quick question. Can you please tell us, do you know what the slope is of the roof? Is it 412, 512? I'm going to confirm on my whole. OK. Yeah. Yeah, if you could let us know what that is. It is all aerial reports. So it's a neutral party that's pulling that aerial report Yeah, so if you give me a second to load if I have signal I can guess, but I don't want to say it's only a three or four twelve It's probably yeah, probably a four or it's tell you you're in two seconds Mr. Yuck Documents? Okay, well, I'll continue. That matters in that there are certain tile that is recommended for a minimum of a 512.. It's 512 pitch. Okay. Or aerial measure. Actually that's 512. Okay, that's good. That's steeper than I thought maybe it was. So that's good. Because again, certain roof tile applications are recommended only if you have at least a minimum of a 412 pitch. So this has a 512 pitch, which is actually better. It's shedding water better than a 412 pitch. So for instance, a mission tile, mission barrel tile, in some instances are recommended only if you have a minimum 512 pitch, which is what the existing home has, the mission barrel tile, and it does have a 512 pitch. So that's good to know. Okay. I once again visited the property. I just drove around. I drove around the neighborhood a number of times and the home really is very, very prominent. It sits on almost like a peninsula that protrudes out and really welcomes you into the neighborhood. All of the other homes in the neighborhood are one story, and especially the ones that are adjacent to this home are one story. And so you can see this roof from almost all four sides of the home. It's very, very prominent. And I think that's important. I had asked to see the original historic designation application just to see if there was anything that I could glean from that. And it did identify that the existing mission style clay tile roof was one of the contributing factors that really contributed to this historic status and the Mediterranean revival design style. The owner also did support the application. So, the current roof is also applied with a batten system, I believe, if you could just confirm that. A mission panning cap tile is installed on A2 by 4, so it's only 2 and 3 quarter inches tall at the highest point. Okay. Okay. And the other panning cap comes over top of it. Okay. So the pan goes down, you put a foam here, the cap goes over top of it. You have a two and three and two and three quarter and six exposure because it sits on a two by four. Yeah, okay, okay. That's what it appeared to be as well when I looked at it in person and studied the photographs. The do not, I really appreciate your knowledge. The applicant, you absolutely have a lot of knowledge in this area. But I think the one point where the proposed tile falls short is the aesthetics. It there is, you don't have the same aesthetics. And we are a historic preservation board. And the aesthetics are a big part, personally, what I am looking at. I also did some research on my own to see if there were some clay barrel tile products out there that were Florida product approved, NOAA approved, and there are. Ludovici, like you pointed out, actually has a Spanish tile, they have an S-tile, they have several options for mission barrel tile, and they're just one product. There were some others, there was a product made in Guatemala, there was another product made in France, and the Ludovici tile is manufactured here in America. So, it comes with a 75 year warranty. I pulled a couple cut sheets. We can put those up later if necessary, but I'm curious to hear what my fellow commission members have to say. If I could ask the staff to respond in particular to the information regarding wind impact, it was stated that there's this study after Hurricane Ion where you had mental roofs with 12% damage and tile roofs with 40% damage. And there was also information that the mental roof could withstand 335 miles per hour wind compared to the tile roof, which would be 145 miles per hour. And just by way of background, Ion was a category 4 with winds between 145 and 150 when it hit the Naples area. I mean, that study is something that I'm not really familiar with as it's just one study that was done after one hurricane. I can tell you from personal experience being in Key West after Irma. There were a lot of metal roofs that were blown off after Irma. A lot of things when it comes to roofing, coming off after our storm has to do with its age of the roof, I would say, not so much this specific, I mean, it can be the material, but when it comes to that percentage, I can't tell you, when was that tile installed that was blown off, when was the metal installed that was blown off? I can tell you that Dekra, their warrant team, provides it for wins less than 120 miles per hour and Hailstone's Lesson. all that was blown off. I can tell you that DECRA, their warranty, provides it for when's less than 120 miles per hour, and Hailstone's less than 2 1 1 2 1 2 inches penetration. It's a 30 year limited warranty on finish. So I understand that there's probably theoretically could maybe withstand and testing, but their warranty covers for when less than 120 miles per hour, at least based on the sheet that I printed off their website. What was some of the other, I'm trying to remember some of the other questions. We're in executive session. Well, it's comparative wind impact is what, I'm kind of focusing on here as being a, I mean, this is a practical argument, which is being advanced by the applicant here in light of the climate change that we're experiencing and hurricane. I can tell you that there's a lot of tile roofs in Florida that have, you know, with stood hurricanes, I would say after Irma and then even now after Milton, there's a lot of discussion about the longevity of asphalt shingles. I've not heard anything being put forward to limit the production or allowance of clay, barrel tile, or metal roofing in response to a hurricane. Thank you. I'm torn, but I do think that understanding roofs can be damaged at honestly any wind speed for any given reason. I do also understand that if a tile is used, a warranty would help the homeowner repair their home back to condition given a storm event, which is something that I'm holding weight to that. They could still get insured and get repaired in the event of a storm. Yeah, I think to add to continuing conversation from last session, you know, I think all our biggest concern is here, sitting in precedence, and now I'm more information showing that there's other historical societies that have not done this yet, concerns me. As a homeowner and local practicing architect, I'd love to see an improvement. But honestly, there's nothing here that's made me accept that this change can go now, mainly because of the aesthetics. You know, there just isn't enough here for me to sway a decision into a prove it, in my opinion. chair. Yes. I'll click the axe that advocate. Yep the applicant. Yes, yes. I can't ask you a question. Do you know, when was the last time the roof was replaced? And I'm asking this because you said if you do the clay tile, you'll have to make adjustments. So when was the last time the roof? I have not pulled the permit records, but as far as I'm aware, it's before 2008. Larry, when did you purchase the house? So so roof was probably installed before 2008, okay? Or even if 2014 is when the building code changed to where we have to re-nail the deck. 2014 and it finally goes from four to eight. So 2014 to 2018, pending your jurisdiction is when re-nailing of the deck code, re-nailing of the underlayment and all that other stuff came into play. So what he has built as built now is not going to conform to current code. So since the code has changed since his last roof was put on in 2010, 2012 right around there. So now we're going to have to add nails and everything else to that. Okay. Commissioner Davis, city staff may have any answer as well. Yes, I looked into the permit record. There's no permit record for this roof ever being replaced. I would not be surprised if it's potentially the original roof, but it may not be. We have no records of it. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Does anyone have any final thoughts, comments that we can discuss as a group? I guess I would, I'd like to ask again of the applicant if they are amenable to moving forward with any product other than what they have proposed. I asked this last time because I wanted to point out that if just putting that out there. I'm in the contracting industry and my job is to make my customers happy. So whatever Mr. Geckin would like to do is what I'm going to do and one thing that says I do have the chambers here. What is our next appeal process? Because there's information that they're here that I could actually just consult and change to. So appeals of this board are taken to City Council and they must be filed within 10 days of the rendering of this decision downstairs with the City Clerk's office. Thank you. You're welcome. I have another question. So what I'm gathering from a lot of this is that there's not a stone-coded steel version that is aesthetically comparable to the Mr. Stahl, barrel, correct, or are there other products that maybe would have the depth and curvature to make it work? So I'm going to lay these back here, mind you. There's sits on it. Can you make sure that we're talking into the mytho because it does have to get in? So that panel sits on a 2x4. So that's two and three quarter inches tall. This panel is gonna sit on a one by four. It's gonna come up three quarters of an inch higher. So this panel is actually gonna be here. I- So this panel is actually going to be here. I just want to point out that it is not necessarily the height here. It's the adjacency of the tiles. Correct. And in your support. So that there is. In your statutory port. The Decreville per her measurements were the same height in your stash report, who would then have a half an inch, two and a half to three. I believe in your spreadsheet and your PowerPoint. I measured from the table to the height, but that doesn't necessarily represent the height from the top of the curve to the top of the bottom curve. I just went straight by height. You can install it on one by force, two by force, it still doesn't change the same kind of depth because you have tile that does this or this is much less the thickness of this tile is significantly more than the barrel time. I guess I'd also point out there are a lot of accessories that go along with the mission tile, the edge banding, the ridge details, the ridge tile. So the edge end caps, and I don't know that the proposed tile when installed with all of the accessory pieces, again, will be comparable to the Mission Barrel tile. And I believe that it will not. Okay. Do we? Yes, Commissioner? Just a point of order here. I missed the last meeting. Am I entitled to vote on this or should I vote her? Yes. All commission members present may vote on a continued public hearing. The additional information relevant to this decision was presented in an open meeting to all commissioners present. My question, council, is because the motion will include subject to the conditions of the staff report and the first condition indicates a mission barrel tile should be used as one of the conditions. So that is there's two ways that we can go with this and I'd actually recommend that the applicant is seeking the metal stone coated metal I believe is the term and they've indicated that that is what they would like. So I would ask that we remove that first condition and vote exactly on the application as presented with the normal conditions that we have for post installation inspections to preserve a record for city council. Thank you. Anything, does anyone have anything else before we take a vote? Okay. So can we have a vote to remove the initial condition for the mission barrel proceeding? Yes, there is. Thank you chair. I'll go ahead and make a motion that the first condition of approval be removed as a condition. I second. Ready? Okay. Magnello? Yes. Brasco? Yes. Davis? Yes. Nelson? Yes. Wanna maker. Yes. And Michael's. Yes. Not motion passes. Now I do we have a motion for items two, three and four. It's an item. It would be a motion on the application subject to the amended conditions. Do we have a motion? I'll make that motion that we approve the certificate of appropriateness based on the applicant's application subject to the amended conditions in the staff report which include two three and four. I second that motion Okay, I'm ready. Yep, Magnell. Yes Grasco. Yes Davis Davis. Yes. Nelson. Yes. Wanna maker? No. Michaels. Yes. Not motion passes. They have COA's granted. Yes. Yes. Iris, can you read the like an item into the record? I guess I'll just wait one second while he gathers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're getting thrusted out. I'm going to have to hang it off into the microphone. Oh, they had way more scary than I thought. I don't know. They're all in the house. give them a minute. Yeah. Okay. Iris, would you like to read the second item into the agenda? Yes. And this is City File number 25-902-00005. The request is a review of a certificate of appropriate in this application for Hurricane Protection at 620-31st Street North. A contributing property in a local historic district. The owners are David and Andrea Manson. The address is 620-31st Street North and the city contact is Cindy Kohanik. Great. Good afternoon, Cindy Kohanik historic preservationist for the City of St. Petersburg. This project is a COA review for 620 31st Street North. No public comments were received for this project. The property is located in the northwest Kenwood local historic district and is contributing to both the local and the national register districts. This Tudor Revival Style House was built on site in 1935. The Masonry construction of this Tudor Revival is somewhat less common for the Kenwood area. The left side porch was enclosed likely sometime in the mid 20th century and in 2011, a rear addition with stucco Cladding was added to the house. A character defining feature of both historic and modern masonry openings is that they do not typically have a traditional window trim with casings surrounding the window and a drip edge at top. Instead they are a box frame or brick mold install recessed into the opening with concrete or brick sill and sometimes a jack arch or decorative hood at the top. There's an exception to this for some windows and stucco openings in half timbering that is sometimes found on the higher style Tudor Revival to houses which do have a traditional window trim. This half timbering is not actually present on this structure. The existing brick and masonry openings on the house, our recessed windows with brick or concrete sills as depicted on the right side image here, which is traditional. And the side porch infill shown on the left utilizes a more traditional window trim profile with casing and a bottom sill. The COA request is for the installation of accordion shutters on most of the windows on the house. These areas are indicated by the pink or red lines you see on the site plan that was submitted with the application and also shown on this image here. Clear or corrugated or flat hurricane panels are also proposed for the doors, which are numbers 1 and 8 shown here, and the two small windows numbers 6 and 7. A few notes on the site plan. The site plan supplied with the application depicts door number 8 and window number 7, a little farther back than they are in real life. They are actually located in the opening open porch area on the left side, and windows number 2 and number 3 are also indicated to be a little farther to the right than they are in real life. Windows number nine and door number eight are actually located in the 2011 edition. And narrow windows number six and seven do not appear to be historic windows or openings. Other than the side porch infill and the openings that just mentioned the rest of the windows do appear to be historic openings, but are of course replacement windows in them. Window and door openings, numbers 5 through 12 are not visible from the right away. So this slide here shows the proposed accordion style hurricane shutters, which are proposed for nine individual windows, two sets of paired windows, and one triple window set for a total of 12 shutters. Shutters are to be beige. The applicant has indicated that the shutters and frames are the same color. It's unclear if that includes any sort of like top and bottom tracks or any sort of interior tracks on these. The applicant has also stated that the shutters when closed will enclose the window sills. In other words, they will be installed under the sill so they will enclose that when they are closed. You will not see that. Removable temporary clear hurricane panels like those depicted in the left side image are proposed for the two doors and the two small fixed windows which are on the right side of the slide here. The applicant indicated that the front door would utilize horizontal panels with removable pins and the rear door would utilize vertical panels with removable a removable track at the bottom It's unclear as to whether the panel for the front door will be arched for the front door and recessed into the arched entry It is assumed that at the very least it will be recessed into the entry though This is is just an excerpt from the St. Pete Design Guidelines for Historic Properties. It's the section on things you can do to protect your historic home. It's found on the PDF pages of 123 through 124. Accordian shutters are addressed in that last bullet point, which indicates that they may be allowable on commercial structures and may be considered appropriate on other types of buildings when reasonably concealed. It further states that these are considered on a case by case basis and this is consistent with many other local historic districts that are certified local governments within the state. Previous staff reviews have for the most part been limited to removable temporary panels like the fabric panels shown here as well as the plastic or polycarbonate panels with direct mount anchors against similar to those shown here. Previous staff and CPBC reviews have also included a Bahamas Greens brand screen door, Bahamas shutters as well as traditional wood shutters. Staff has previously approved the Bahamas Green Door in the lower left. However, the Bahamas Green brand impact screen shown on the upper left has not been reviewed or approved. That impact screen would, however, be potentially staff-approvable under some specific conditions. Traditional wood shutters are not appropriate for all architectural styles, including to the revival. In summary, the staff evaluation yields that most of the relevant criteria were not met for both the granting of a certificate of appropriateness and for the guidelines for alterations. The staff recommendations splits the COA into two parts. The first being a denial of the permanent accordion shutters due to their visibility and the changes in character defining features being inconsistent with the guidelines. The second part is for an approval with conditions for the temporary or removable hurricane panels for both doors numbers one and eight and the two small windows number six and seven. The conditions include a standard condition of approval as well as the requirements for any tracks to be painted to match the adjacent surface if they're permanently installed. The staff report also lists some additional considerations or concerns regarding the accordion shutters if the COA were to be granted in whole or in part which of course can be brought up during discussion. Staff is here for any questions and the applicant and owner is present. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Does the applicant have a presentation? You have 10 minutes to do so. Hi, my name is Andrea Manson. I live in 620, Flady First, with North, St. Petersburg. Well, we talk about here we can't shutters. It's not the collective shutters and I have a presentation. I'm shaking. I'm shaking. It's a long time since I did this. I used to do this for a living. I can believe it. That's the one. That's my beautiful home. We love our home. I call my home the jewel of Kenwood. We love it. Everybody loves it. time they're outside and somebody don't stop by and say how much they love our home. I know how many strangers you took for two-zen hour yards and two to see what floors our arch is inside the house. We love it. We live in this house for 25 years and we just wanna keep living for now 25 years. Every year we put the boards and we prepared the house. So we're going to go from the beginning. I did something wrong. I pressed on the arrow. City staff. Oh, we got it. Okay. Oh, okay. Okay. This is the first one. We bought the accordion shutters. We did go and we bought accordion shutters. We spent $11,000 of something that we hope we're not going to need. I read the whole thing. It doesn't say that we can't have it. It says that shutters are staffed, reveal. As a staff reveal, as what's my mistake, maybe, to think that staffed reveal didn't go through the permitting by itself. But I would never thought that the city of St. Petersburg you cut the line or staff reveal for hurricane protection. That's kind of weird. But I went through, we already, as you can see, the matrix. It doesn't say that we can't have it. You associate earnings with earnings in the same category for staff reveal. onings are literally architectural elements. They changed the facade of a place. And then it goes. So, and even the requirements, not being requirements, it's like minimum requirements, shoulders and here we can't panic. So, I was sure there you go from staff review, and this staff review, we're going to need some adjustments, some call or whatever was but never a denial. It was flat denial, we caught up with times and then we made it and it was flat denial, we got a meeting and it was a flat denial and we like you know why is a flat denial. It's there's a protection. We're not changing anything in the house. Nothing is changed. The same damage that they call, is the damage it's going to be. If I put the pins on it, it's the same kind of anchors. You're not going to close anything. So, well, we decided we had to come here, so in front of you, and I want to thank you for listening to our application, because it's something very important to us. So now we go back and go forward. OK. So in front of you and I want to thank you for listening to our application because it's something very important to us So now we go back or go forward Okay, so now this is How the design guidelines said it will have to protect our houses much as possible in the historic she's shown historic preservation guidelines In the third paragraph says that modern shutters are a good way to protect historical buildings. Then you go, well, at the end you'll talk about the has to be discrete and have to be, how are the words that you said? OK. You have to be discrete. So that's why you choose this one, because it's the best shirt as there we have. It's the highest protection that you can have. It's permanent, so it's easy for just, I'm going to get you this sometime. Then another factor that let me believe that we cannot be denied to have it, you can show this. That the state of Florida passed the law last year for H.. Is it specific for HOAs? I want to be clear about that. But the law states that you can't deny protection for aesthetics purposes. Is here we can protection. Our houses should be a safe place. His mother is to come to our house, just staying in our house from clear water. Because our house isn't a safe neighborhood. It's a safe place to stay. It's everything is good. So we're trying to make our houses safe as this should be because the hurricanes got stronger. So now we need more protection. So because the past is law, we thought, well, another reason we're never gonna be denied, You know, it's, it's, it's your staff review. It's staff look is too easy. Recon protection. This is a. law with our law. Another reason we're going to be denied, you know, is it's you go step review, step look is easy, we can protection, this is approved by the state, you have to take a permit, everything is by the book, why will not be approved it? So we're here again saying this. So why would chose those? According to short, it's easy to use. We're old people. I'm gonna look at that young and fresh, but I'm six years old. My health is studying 69 months. It's hard for us to do. I'm not handicapped. I can do stuff, but it's difficult. I have a rotator cut surgery. I can't do anything, anything. Last year, here we came, the first one was not the two together. The first one, I'm emptying the room inside the house. Because that floor, the room, I emptied it. Because I don't know what's going to happen. We don't know the windows are installed. I know it's safe. I know it's secure. But if the window breaks, I have a hurricane side my house. the sizes windows that are five by four, they are very large windows. Fabric, we're not going to hold that. Now we have a hurricane in my house, you decide those windows, they have five by four, they have very large windows. Fabric, we're not gonna hold that. I have a hurricane in my house. Nobody, I'm an architect, nobody gonna convince me that that fabric will protect my glass for breaking. You protect the house from the hurricane a little bit, we're not protecting the glass for breaking. Another reason is, we don't need any equipment to move it. It's there. You close it, you lock it, you open, you click it, it's there all the time. We don't have to climb letters. We don't have to fight play with fasteners. We don't have to have pins. We don't have to have storage. We have a huge shed in our house because our house is to be owned by a landscaper a long, long time ago. Half of this mat, John Norma's shadow is taking my pieces of wood that we have to have to protect the house. And we don't have to change them. It's why all the way to the end to change the windows. My windows are fine, which fixed all of them last few, a couple of years ago when you tank the house, they broke one of the windows. And we discovered that windows to fix one of those things that the first one's a million dollars and that the one's a hundred seventy five. So we fix all of them. So they all have new balance and the other ones are 175. So we fixed all of them. So they all have new balance, the only springs, they all see what they all find, they all working properly. The current method that we have protects against hurricane. It just protects us, get hurt, or doing it. It's not easy out our life. We work all our life, we make so many improvements in our house, we make the decision, we take our own decision. It was when you said that, oh. You're going to be'll tell you how house was horrible before. He passed on it. He bought the one down the street when he fixed it in the house. So this very maintenance, he opened the shutters and closed the shutters. They kept the track on the bottom clean. You can blow over the blow or wash off the hose, not a big deal. You can, you're gonna lower on insurance from 20, from five to 20%, our house in a safe place, are we trying to get our insurance agent, but we can get the answer from him. But because our house in a safe zone, we're, I see you're gonna have higher 20s insurance discounts. So this is a comparison. So this house is here with law. It has hurricane shutters. Another thing we discover through this time that lots of houses have those. We just don't see them because you're not looking for them. If you drive by you're not going to see them. So there's a comparison of panels, regular panels and those accordions. That's the,, the hurricane, why you need the hurricane should be like this. So I was telling about that this year. David was putting the hurricane panels on the top last year. And I'm inside the room taking the things apart. And David fell. He fell. I see this man fell in the piece of wood from a ladder, because so that's what what she decided to have to go. I just want to go very quickly for the, for the, the, the, that she. So that's our house. We have our house at different walls. So see, it's telling, putting in taking windows off, it's not something that I want to, I, I, I, I, by standard to do. We know that walls are finicky because we want to have the addition of the walls and it's difficult. Our Greeks are cement Greeks, they're not play Greeks. And the mortar, our white kind of white mortar, so it's very brittle, I would say. So messing up my windows, messing up my finishing or something that we want to do, I don't think is that. So there's a bunch of examples here of houses around. They have it. They all houses from St. Petersburg. They're the same one in Lula. This is also in North Canoe. There's in Pasadena. They all have the same shutters. This one is on Old Northeast. Is why no entrance to Old Northeast? Is listed as a national register? But it's as a contributor. You see, it's yellow, it's a contributor. Has shirt, hurricane shirt is the exact same ones, all over the house. This is to show how many different students we have. This student has everything, has the earnings and everything. It is also a contributor. This is a local contributor. This is within my neighborhood. It's a local contributor with Hurricane Shatters. So it's grandfather. According to Hurricane Shatters, I actually grandfathered my neighborhood. Does the more nuanced, it's a house of dream, Kenwood, a house pretty much like mine, looks very much like mine. The one that 64336 has a dream around. It didn't change anything. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Sorry. So next we're gonna go into public hearing. We do not have any cards for this item. No cards, Madam Chair. So we'll move into cross examination. We'll start with city staff. Please staff waves. Okay. Does the applicant have any cross examination for city staff? No staff waves. Okay. Does the applicant have any cross-examination for city staff? No. Okay. Okay. Does city have any closing remarks? Oh, sorry. Sorry, I was too late. Okay. Well, I'm sorry. Thank you. Yeah. So I did wanted to address one item. So staff did not outright. It was a simple processing difference. Staff did not outright deny the shutters. So we didn't do it as a staff review and deny the shutters and then have her appeal to you guys. What I did was simply for processing how to come straight to you guys because this was not something that was typical of staff reviews and approvals. And that is forward through these real quick. I did pull the relevant guidelines. So we fully I've admitted that we do have onings and shutters listed in the grid our matrix as such. However we have a caveat at the end of the matrix that does say staff can route applications to the commission if it is nontraditional, mace that precedent and therefore requires the benefit of the public deliberation and the CPPC decision. So that's where this came from and this is untypical of anything that staff has approved previously. The would, the traditional wood shutters actually came through the commission on that previous approval as well. One item I do want to point out, and I'll go back to the previous slide here. Ms. Manson is correct. It is at 2135 Burlington, Avenue north. It is contributing to the Southeast Kenwood local historic district. That was established in 2018. The shutters actually predate the local designation the permit date was pulled in 2005. And they are on that house, so that is just how they exist right now. One other note on the applicant's presentation is this is 64216th Avenue Earth. The image that she included actually is a modern, like that trim was just installed on this house. These are street views from as far back as 2011, March 2011, in Google, and then I think it's too small for me to see, I think it's 2022. This house was just put onto apartments.com and the trim is something that has been done since the Google Street View. So it is a modern addition to a house that is not typical for a two to revival of masonry construction. Oh, once again. You'll get your time, my promise. And that was pretty much all I had anyway, so. Okay, great. So now you get three minutes to do your closing. Okay, what is that, Deque? What is that, Deque? I just showed several houses that have, it's including in historic guidelines that things have through time. So for example, now I have an infield that historic, my windows are from historic already, and they are new, modern windows. So when I say this, I can leave my house, I can live here now and put a trim around my window. And nothing ever changed because I don't need a permit for putting a trim around my window. There's another reason I't think it was like, there's a big deal about the shutters because all the changes that have been coming in my historic local historic session because none of those modifications need permits. So we can put a shutters in your permit or can paint your bricks on your house because they have tons of those. Chutters, bricks, different plaques, different numbering, different everything. And because they know you permits, they can change. So now we need hermit to protect our house. We've been punished with changing the face of your house. We had plantas in our windows before. The plantas close a cover the seals. A lot. We have plantas with tall plants, it cover all off the way that they're doing those. So, and this is not a permanent change. They are removed. But somebody to more discover that the Alim Museum slap a couple of weeks in my house. They can take the house and take the shutters off. But you know who's going to take the hurricane shutters from a home? Nobody. Nobody ever going to take protection from hurricane from a His protection from he re came. We will match. I'm waiting for them to come. We get them in beige because it's that close. See all the paint. They're gonna put my first picture on, anything? OK. You know, my first one. So all the seams that you see painted, this is painted, the mortar. We painted every line there. We want our house to be pretty. This concept here that we're installing something to make the house ugly, it upsets me. Second, I went through all the general criteria and we are consisting of every single of them. I don't know why they get a point and understand, even for no applicable, they manage to say that we were wrong on it. I don't understand how we're not using any any Any chemical or any abrasion or things and then oh, yeah She's not using a brazen but but it's not applicable. We're not damaged and we're preserving our house The only house that have flawed lights pointing to it We want the to see our home. We want to protect our, we got married in our house. 23 years ago, almost. We got married, we want to protect our home. We really, we need to have something to protect. We don't go anywhere. David has the jazz festival, here the Latching Jazz Festival. He teaches us in Pitt College. We have a life in some, we have an inside of a house. It's not just our asset. We have all our livelihood. My instruments, science, other house, we musicians, they've been instruments inside the house. All our show, products, science, other house, speakers, like for everything we need to have our horse protected and not changing anything. Just we wanna match. I guess that's it. So, probably, since I was a house, speakers, like, for everything, we need to have a house protected. And not changing anything. We want to match. I can say it's better. Our house is pretty like this because we did pretty like this. It wasn't. It wasn't that pretty. My house was awful. As I say, the commission and geography passed on it. It was so bad. We make our house very, very, very pretty. I did that. We painted, I'm going to match one of the shutters arrived. We see exactly the quality it comes. We will make a point to make it match and make everything perfect matching with it. Well, this house doesn't have what we're not matching. Anything of the tutor. The tutor teaches there. There's chimneys there, the curve door is there, everything is there. We just want to preserve better. That's what we want to do. Thank you very much. I want to say well. And you've been sworn in, right? Yes, I am. Okay, thank you. Thank you. David Manson, I would just like to state that, I don't believe that window jams are a defining element of Tudor revival style and that Tudor revival style is not monolithic. There are many, many variations of that. So we think it will not significantly change the view of the house. And also like to state, we have done as my wife has stated, so much work on the home. When we purchased the the house Kenwood was quite a different place for those folks have been in St. Pete for a while we had a lot of crime and we have worked really hard to bring that property up because it was a wreck when it was purchased it was a very very bad shape thank you Lisa Pruvo showed us right. Thank you very much. So that we're going to move into executive sessions. So we're going to talk amongst ourselves. And if we have questions, we'll let you know. I did want to start off by saying that I understand being emotional. It's your home. You love it. I think that this past hurricane season made a lot of things very stressful. And these types of things came up for a lot of homeowners. I know I face that with my husband, myself, and it's a lot. It's a lot to go through and it's good to care, you know. Oh, really quick. Okay, perfect. So I just wanted to say that and another reason why to this came up to this commission is because this is different. This was something that city staff could not review because it is something that we hadn't seen before. Is that correct? So just wanted to let you know that that we weren't trying to make anything more difficult. This is just going to determine things going forward for other homes as well. But I wanted to see if any of my fellow commissioners had any comments about this. I'd like to ask a question of the applicants here, the so the Mansons, right? Yeah. Not the same one. That's the same one. Kind of really. Well, first of all, let me second the chair's comments here. I really do appreciate your investment in our city here in in historic preservation and the care that you're Taking with you put the roundabout on the street. You're wonderful. I walk every single door and I like every single door together I'm about just to manage the speed we've involved just somewhat Thank you. So the staff in their report This is on page 13 page 13 And it has to do with criteria number two, which basically deals with accordion shutters. I'll just read it to you here. It says that direct-mount anchors and clear temporary panels would be appropriate and staff-approvable. Tracks could be appropriate, tracks could be appropriate and staff approvable if they were installed in the mortar joints and paint it to match the surrounding surface. Could you comment on that? In other words, that's something you can do or not. No, I did a lot of research before buying the shirt. We did a lot of research. That's why I have several types of hurricane protection because one type don't fit all. For our first and father, in the fuel room, for example, even if you change, put some kind of panels, some kind of need more because the space between the glass panel and the trim is like less than an inch. So we need some to build out to be able to put something like a panel because it would be too close to the glass. You'd be the same thing. We have panels now. But that's not the problem. The problem is the difficulty of installing and putting it in all and taking it out and have easy access. We have magical problems and we're not just fixing the houses just for two of us. We fix the house, but maybe one of us. We need to get the house fixed, and that's our goal. We make digestion, we put solar panels, we have well water, we fix everything, and windows are fixed, we tend to house. Every time we always make improvements, and we see those improvements. It's an improvement. I have fixed hurricane shutters permanent. It's an improvement to my house. It's not detrimental. We bother the shutters. We have panels before, we have the wood before. It doesn't make a difference. You have to climb in the ladder. We have very tall windows. You see how tall windows are all windows are. You need to climb in the letter. You need to have two people. You can't do this by themselves. I can't do this by myself. He can do myself. Together is becoming dangerous to do ourselves. That's what I said. It's becoming the, we don't want to be that people, the old man, the fell from the letters in the newspaper. Oh, the old man, from the lad and everybody say, what the old man was doing on top of the ladder. I want to answer the serious and pretty we're making to that because that's what we want just to protect our home. I promise you're going to be pretty. I promise you're going to be gorgeous. I absolutely want to be ugly. Thank you. Thank you. If you could just answer one more question for me, did you ever consider just replacing the windows? We do. OK. We don't know the first. Tell us about that. The thing is, as I said before, our walls are finicky. They are different. People are not familiar with our walls. We happened when we cut the window when the adjuditions of 2011, our kitchen is like window, window door door. So we cut one of the windows and push a niche to put a refrigerator. So the window, the kitchen is still the same size, but you know it's open. Now we don't have a refrigerator in the middle. When you cut the wall, the goal I think was just cut the right height and just to push the niche, they have to bring all the way to the top because the wall just starts to crumble because it's different, it's two lines of bricks and they have some weird anchors and tight. We can see the garage because the garage doesn't have a finish and now it's, so we don't know how those windows are stored. We have no permits for them. We know that the house windows are probably the same time because of the carpet and the wall doors cut. So probably the same time. So probably like in those early 80s, 70s, on the beginning flicks of couples in retirees because all shows like the retiree home at the point and close it from porch and close the back porch. They have carpet on the porch. And the body put cups on the porch, they don't have a conditioner. Did you have a professional window subcontractor? Oh, we do. Look at the homeless. No, we didn't give you a quote for replacing the windows with our windows. I don't want to do. We didn't want to do. We didn't want to mess with our windows. We don't want to do. It's another thing too. With this system, it takes it out. If you don't want it the more the shoulders you can take them out. It's not permanent. Why I don't want to change my windows that matter, windows, they're still doing fine for plastic windows, vinyl windows that are not historic at all. It's you can spot a vinyl window for miles away. And plus, it doesn't, you know, my windows, my house didn't have those historical windows that you call today. They were the stew windows. So with a little square stew windows. So even any window that I put in there will not be the window that was there before. Not even a copy of it because it will make probably I don't think Floyd the regulators those. I don't know. But I don't think it can. So we did not want it there. There was a choice. Okay. And very expensive choice, but we didn't want that. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Does anyone have any other comments? I want to discuss. Well, there are a lot of conditions here potentially that we could, you know, in lieu of outright denying the certificate of appropriateness. City staff is really trying to work with the applicant, work with you, and try to find a compromise, try to find a way for... Hold on one second. to find a way to move forward and to move ahead. And there are several conditions that I think we just need to confirm whether the applicant is OK with them. Or we just approved the application as is. So we really need to look through all of those. I ask, could you pull up the slide that displays the second, the approval with conditions with one through five. Yes. Have you seen this list? Yes, I see from this type of report and I want to say that from the beginning the recommendation was always for denial. I only found out about the second, the second, only I got this type of report last week. So I impression this is my response was always based on their recommending denial. So the reason that happens is because we do have to adhere by a certain set of rules and regulations, but that's why City staff also presents a way to spin it into a more positive light to help. And I appreciate it. I already have thank them for everything. So that is why that's there. And that's why they went into great detail of providing items 135. Yeah, it makes sense. Because it actually discusses is only have the meeting. OK, something like this. Great. So have you looked through those items? Do you have any feedback? Yeah, I do. I respond there. I just think that she said about the match, the call, there's no frame. There's no such thing as a frame on hurricane shutters, accordion shutters. It's a box. Which item are you discussing the frame? At all tracks, be painted to match the edges and surface. There's no tracks to be painted. There is a box. They have a picture of it or it is? It's a box. The box comes in install. It's a picture frame. So when we're discussing? It's a picture frame. What's the picture? The bottom track? So do you mean the bottom frame or the frame? Madam Chair, if I may. Yes. So to clarify what this recommendation is, this recommendation is a two- a two part. It is a denial for any historic or for any accordion shutters. It is an approval for the temporary plastic polycarbonate panels for doors one through eight, a one in eight, and windows six and seven. That's what the staff recommendation is now. Well, not for the front ones. 101 second. Let's let city staff finish really quick. The conditions are actually for just the removable hurricane protection. So the clear polycarbonate panels, and I believe according to the owner, the tracks are only going to be utilized on the door number eight, which is actually on the new addition at the rear. You're not going to see it. And I don't believe, I think it's going to be removable. So I don't know that this is necessary. Number one is even necessary, but it is just kind of there in case any tracks are utilized for any of the rest of it. So we had to... Ecclaredity, can we move to the slide with the diagram of the house and explain the difference between the types and where they're going, please stuff. So this is the accordion shutter. and explain the difference between the types and where they're going, please stuff. So this is the accordion shutter that is proposed for all of the openings that are in the pinkish red color here. On the left here is the corrugated polycarbonate panel with either tracks or direct mount fasteners that are proposed for 6, 7, and 8, which are near that red arrow towards the back and then door number one, which is on the front of the house. So, which one am I supposed to point to? Just that, that's what I was talking about. It's two different types of shutters are being applied for in the areas is marked okay got it okay I think I'd like to take I'm sorry I don't understand the the condition it's just for the not for the front windows at all. So let's, okay, we can go through and we're going to pay really close attention to what we're talking about. So this, these two recommendations, these two separate paragraphs that you're seeing, the first paragraph is denial of the accordion style. The second paragraph with those items one through five is an approval with conditions for those two doors with the clear plexiglass, as well as those fixed windows, those long windows that you have. So we can... Even for the panels, the city's creating all those obstacles. Or the panels that regular approval for everybody. So the city, the approval with conditions for the second paragraph, the bottom two are canned and are always there. So those are just. But she just, she's the only person in the panel. All right. Not a part of the show. Okay. You're doing good, Chair. I'm glad you need it. I'm glad you need it. Yes. Technically, two through five are now standard for all of our conditions of approval. It's just kind of a way we're always going to do a final inspection. We're always going to do, you know, require any other necessary permits. So those building permits have to be pulled despite what you guys decide. Okay. The approval is valid for a certain amount of time. And then number three is a newer one. It's just saying it's just kind of a cover that in case anything major changes from these plans. It's kind of a protection for staff to be able to send it back to you guys if it's a a major change that we don't feel comfortable staff at Purdue. Thank you. They are standard, the two through five now. Okay, so. to be able to send it back to you guys if it's a major change that we don't feel comfortable staff upward. Thank you. They are standard, the two through five now. Okay. So what we're talking about in the second group of items, basically two through five are always there if you're here. Okay. So number one is basically we're stating that the tracks for the Plexiglass just need to be painted. There's no tracks. They're removable tracks. The tracks on the ground, I'm not painting what's cement color. So staff was just meeting that if they were permanent tracks, this even case, they're okay. It's kind of a cover. So it's a cover. If they're temporary, nothing has to be painted. Okay. All right. Let's also pull up the additional considerations, one through five. Please. Okay. Because so there's no tracks. So verify if the tracks will be installed in the masonry joints. Sounds like there are no tracks, apparently. But for the panels. But for the panels. Panels. Yeah. And it looks like for number two, the shutters are going to be installed around. Is that you described a box a frame. Right. So those 40 and shutters go in and out of a box that is installed somewhat permanently. Yes. Permanently. Right. Somewhat permanently to the exterior frame of the window. So it's going to be mounted on the brick all the way around. Yes. All right. So I think in that case what staff is asking is that that frame, that box frame look the color of that be as close match to your adjacent brick surface. Okay. So that's what they're talking about. I think even when they. They would distract their. It's just semantics. It's just semantics, okay? So there's a question about how the shutters and the frame interact with your roof overhang. So that's something that has to be carefully looked at just to make sure there's, because I think the top of the window that is very close, so you're gonna have to work very, if this is approved, you'd have to work really, really closely with the people who are installing it, make sure that that detail is taken care of. Okay, then the next one, number four, talks about us, the city staff is actually giving us this consideration that we partially approve accordion shutters, the ones with the box frame for your rear non-visible openings. Okay? So, I'm that are not visible from the right of way and that fifth one we've already talked about. So, if we were to approve the certificate of appropriateness with all of these conditions, one through five, plus the additional one through five, it sounds to me like you're getting pretty much what you are asking for. So, okay. So, does that one, is that right? Pretty close. But it already has, these accordance sort of, in. Yeah, local. Let's take a let's take a minute really quick. It's like press pause really really. Yeah. And we'll just so it helps with these if we talk you know one at a time that way too because we do take minutes and I really want to make sure that every single thing that we talk about your concerns, city, south comments, everyone's are clear and, and that way we have it all written down for city record. Okay, so city staff. Madam Chair, if I may, I prepped some extra visual aids. Thank you. This is a visual representation of what an approval of the accordion shutters not visible from the right away. Now keeping in mind that 6, 7, and 8, the applicant is already asking to be removable hurricane shutters. So the orange boxes are the accordion shutters not visible from the right away. And then blue, staff can approve temporary hurricane panels, whether they're the corrugated metal, the corrugated plastic, flat plastic, or fabric. Those can already be staff approved. And these are the ones that would technically be the blue ones, basically 1, 2, 3, 4, 16, 15, 14, and 13 would essentially be visible from the right away. And that's a representation of this. Now if the commission wants to modify this in any way. All right. Okay, great. So it looks like the the applicant is asking 13, 14, 15, 16, through 2, 3 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13 like for those to be the accordion style with the box frame. So right now the only bone of contention here are for those particular openings. Other than that, the applicant is getting exactly what they've applied or they ask for potentially. So applicant please if you could just answer a question for us. Would you be open to using the clear plastic on 13, 14, 15, 16, 2, 3, and 4. So you're saying no. The risk of falling from a ladder, getting with fasteners, and being elderly people. It doesn't help at all. That's the main problem. The main problem for those is because we need to be able to do ourselves Okay, thank you. Thank you Just so I'm clear so if they use The accordion for the blue I can't see the news but the blue the blue ones city staff is asking if they can paint that if they if we approve for them to use the quarter if they can paint it to match or if the if the if it can be bolted in a way that it's kind of with the mason is that correct. The tob clear staff's recommendation is no accordion shutters. The one in the staff memo that you guys have seen is denial of all accordion shutters, approval of just the two doors, the temporary for the two doors and the two windows. Now, I did throw out other information because I wasn't sure where the commission was going to land in the other considerations that mentions like some other CLGs will only regulate these if they're visible from the right of way. So I took that, recommend that you know where other CLGs do, what other historic districts and others, you know, other areas of Florida, how they review it is if it's visible from the right away. So I took that into consideration and then laid this out as an option if you wanted to consider the accordion shutters for the openings that are not visible from the right away. Those are the orange that the applicant is asking for and that staff has determined is not visible from the right of way. the blue, I mean, it's ultimately up to the commission. If you guys want to consider doing accordion shutters, then that's, that will be the direction for staff then. But just to clarify, would be for any accordion shutters that may be approved color matching is recommended. The adjacent surface, whatever that adjacent surface be, whether it's wood trim or brick. And so is the applicant willing to, they can do, okay. Okay. At this time, I think that I want to just ask my fellow commissioners about your thoughts about, I wanna hear why or why not you are for or against the painted accordion following the design guidelines that city staff has kindly suggested to help minimize the visual impact of these accordion on the front. I'm just kind of curious to get any feedback as to how you all feel. But we're in executive session right now. I think that we don't see a lot of these applications, more applications that we see are just outright replacement windows, which is a lot easier. But in some cases, that is financially out of reach for some homeowners, clearly. So I think we do have to maybe expand, just be a potential a little more flexible, given the current climate and hurricane situation to figure out a way to help all of the homeowners get hurricane protection they need on these openings. Even though that box frame is feels permanent, it really could be removed and bricks could be repaired and repointed and a new homeowner could come in and replace the windows in the future. So I feel I have a lot of empathy for the homeowner and I, the stress of these last hurricane season, I'm leaning towards really just approving these hurricane shutters with the accordions as as the applicant has with the design right right so I'm that's where I'm leaning so I agree with the same thing you know I I'm young and I struggled to put up hurricane shutters and so you know it's it's hard and you can say it's a two-person job but quite frankly I don't think that four people could get it done. So I I understand and I understand the emotion and the stress and it's a lot and you know I think we all have empathy for that. So I it doesn't even else have any comments about, you know, your feelings towards allowing the accordion with the design guidelines that the city has, you know, suggested would help it blend in kind with the historic home? Well, I'm leaning towards approval as well. Okay. You know, I have a two-story home. I have fortunate enough to have hurricane windows, so I don't have this issue, but I certainly can understand it, especially as some of us age in place. It's harder to climb those stairs, so thank you. Okay. Anyone else? Yeah, I'm surprisingly actually on the other side of it. So we talked about an inch and a half on Barrel Tile for two sessions. And so obviously we're focused on the aesthetics. It's a single story home and being through a few hurricanes myself. The community comes together. I think everybody's putting up each other's panels. I have panels on my home. And I think to set a precedent on something that unfortunately is going to be there during all season and create this picture frame and totally disrupt the visual appearance of that facade. And then unfortunately with a lot of not saying they're snowbirds, but with a lot of our snowbirds, they then leave the hurricane shutters closed for six months at a time. I think, you know, just is really unappealing in neighborhoods. I've got a few in my neighborhood as well. So, you know, it's not like we're denying that you can't protect your house from hurricanes. I think the Burrell tile is a totally different subject. And yes, it is a little bit harder to put up panels because I have them versus the accordion, but also for $20, you could find somebody on Facebook, Marriott Place, to come do it for you. And so I think to change the whole precedent of it. I mean, at some point, I think we're going to totally dilute the historic neighborhoods. But there is a fine line. And that's what we're stepping through in these last few months. Where is that stopping point? Where is that middle ground? And knock on wood, we don't have anything this coming season. But we're going to continue to have these conversations with different products. And I don't disagree. The windows are really the right move to go, but glass is expensive these days. I can't afford windows, so I'm patching on my house. So I'm a little bit torn, but I'm still not ready to take that leap on this one. Okay. Any other thoughts? Commissioner DeFantz-Duffey? I think that we are approaching this, we are in a new era and so these things are going to continue to come up and it is hard for people to take those things down and I wonder if for let's say if something happened if we had another hurricane and for some reason they had to leave those panels up for an extended period of time because they didn't have helped them what would happen. Is would that be some type of violation? That and that would not look pleasing to the neighborhood either to have those panels up so. I agree with the precedent that you're talking about with changing it because it is serious. You know, this is something that quite honestly I didn't know. This was an option for homes and I'm thinking about looking into that for my house because I am tired of putting up plywood. But I think that if we, as a commission, really are strict and mindful about the design choices surrounding the boxes, I feel comfortable. That's just where I lie with it. You know, making sure that when, if we approve this with conditions, we really are making sure that these conditions have as much detail in it to try to keep it as less visually impacting to the neighborhood because I agree. But at the same point, the damage from hurricanes I think can be just as detrimental to these historic homes. That's kind of where I am with the whole thing. Well, they're not to get in this rabbit hole, but I have'm gonna tell that. I mean, I think a topic of contention for me also is after the storms, everybody cut down their trees. So what are we gonna have no trees in St. Peter's right now because everybody's afraid of trees falling on their house. I mean, I get it, but at some point, you know, we live in a hurricane zone and we need to be smart in trimmer trees and whatnot. But I was devastated to see some of the amount of, you know, 100 year oaks plus that came down just in my neighborhood. And tree businesses are doing great this year because of it. Because honestly, people didn't properly trim their trees. And you know, if they had stayed on top of it. So, you know, at some point, you know, there is a line. I think back to, I did my graduate in Savannah, Georgia, in Savannah. I think, you know, put the, you know, besides that in Charleston, probably put the map, put them on the map for historic preservation. And, you know, going to school there, I was always so frustrated because everything was single paying glass and you're, you know, trying to, you know, study and, you know, hear truck's coming by but I think about it now. I mean it's a much denser population and dwelling but you know if every window was at a box hurricane and shut her on it, it would totally change, you know, dynamics of downtown Savannah. And it's a little bit different here because we have houses set back 20, 25 feet. There's beautiful trees and vegetation that's kind of distracting our eye. but, you know, if, but it's not, not every home is like that. This house, I think, does a very well, does a very good job being kind of sit back and protected by the natural vegetation, but say the house is sold in five years and that person wants to do the floor to hurricane and just tear everything out, you know, then all you're seeing is hurricane chitters. We're kind of on the tip of the iceberg here, I think, with respect to climate change and the storms that we experienced this past year and hopefully don't experience again, but it's likely that that will happen. You know, the big solution here to surge in our community right now is elevation of homes. I mean, that would be a huge change for historic properties. And then we have all the other gradations that we're talking about here. So it might be useful, maybe in the next month or two to have a commission session that just focuses on that topic. You know, let's dig into a little more deeply and we're trying to maintain the historic features of our building and our total community, but we're dealing with this new weather reality and it's going to have to kind of feel our way through this to come up with an appropriate solution. That's like where does, I forget that I just know the acronym, the Tampa Bay Resilience Sea Community, you know, TBRC, that's ice cream. But you know, where does that meet and then historic preservation? And where does that marriage? Exactly. Yeah. All right. Can we make a condition of the staff report that the, uh, if a courty and shutters are approved that they do not remain closed after the hurricane passes. That might be a question for our attorney. I don't know if that's possible. I think you can make that a condition. I think the enforceability would be up to something that was a little bit more subjective for time periods because again the concern that Commissioner Magnello has is something that we do see in the field. There are a lot of hurricane shutters whether they be the roll down the accordion or just plywood or the plexiglass have remained up and that is not an enforcement action that's very clear in our code right now. So again, again, back to what Commissioner Magnello says in a post storm environment, how do we regulate that from a design perspective looking forward to the next storm season? So it is a condition you could make. Again, I will say the enforceability of that may be more subjective than I would recommend to a code enforcement inspector. Yeah, mine. Yeah. And I, yeah. Do we have three, two? Yeah. You have to promise. I know. I know. I know. I'm not going to propose that that be a condition. Sorry. So have we, do we feel like as a group we can end executive session and move into the voting portion of this agenda item? Okay. So there were two things about staff recommendations. So do you think that we should split them up and talk about the Plexiglass, the doors first and then move into the second? It's the commission's pleasure, but you can make a motion for the application, for the accordion, shutters with the recommendations of staff report and subject to the regular conditions of COA approval, and then take a similar vote for the Plexiglass. You can do a separate or you can do a singular motion for both types of shutters, subject to the design recommendations and the conditions of the staff report, which is really whatever the commissioner who makes the motions ultimately desires. Okay. And I do want to be clear that the city staff recommendation was to approve the accordion style hurricane shutters on the rear not on the front so that does need to be addressed and clarified within the motions. Is that correct? Okay. Yes. If I may, I may, Iris, can we pull up my presentation? I may have anticipated some modification of what staff recommended. This will ultimately need to be altered again, but this was the approval with conditions with just the rear accordion shutters. If the commission is so desiring to approve them, the application as is, you would I think essentially cut out numbers one, two, and five. All right, so we're going to, if you're looking at, as is COA approval as they submitted. So accordion shutters with the Plexi, as it was proposed in the COA application by the applicant, if that's where you're leaning, you would essentially be taking one, two, and five out. Direct Molly. Okay, I think that this is a good time to take a couple seconds and just make sure you can, and there's also a behind you too, if it's easier to see. There is one if you guys wanted to take a minute and read those and understand that. It's suggesting. Would you mind just stepping up just so that we can hear you? It's suggesting temporary panels for all the other windows. It doesn't interest us. temporary panels do not interest us. So really quick, so we'd be removing that. So what we would be approving is we'll go through it. Number three. Okay. So read number three really quick. Mm-hmm. Fine. All right. We'll go to number four. Fine. Okay. We'll go to number six. Yes, fine. And then seven, eight, nine, and ten, that's that typical canned language. Yes. Oh, yes. Okay. So reading those, so we would be omitting one, two, and five, and you feel good about those ones that you just read through. Yes. Oh, each of the things you've changed to me, the start preservation of your career, all the shirts, the strengths, the benefit of the surface. I want to make a point about the painting of the shirters, Because the shutters are anodized aluminum. It's very hard to paint them. We're probably going to paint the surface. We're probably going to paint the wall. point about the painting of the shooters, because the shooters are anodized aluminum. It's very hard to paint them. We're probably gonna paint the surface. You're probably not being the wall. We're not talking about painting the shutters. Oh, match? Just the frame, just the frame, the shutters. Oh, it made the same material. They all made this matter. They're all the same material. The app suggestion, and I think that's where Ms. Manson is going, okay. If these come pre-finished in beige, one alternative instead of refinishing the shutters that you're installing is to refinish the surface behind it that way it blends. So if you've got beige shutters that you're painting the house behind it, a beige to... Hmm. The thing is the mortar, as I said, the mortar color is not paint. Our intention was getting the shirt as in match make all cohesive because we believe that the hurricane shirt is very close to the wood panels on the infield side. That top color, so it's very similar to that. So we won't see exactly when they come, so we see how we're going to going to make the match perfect. So it seems all we're going to have to paint the wall. It is. It was to be pretty. Yeah. All right. So we'll take pause here. How does the commission feel about that comment? And the Manson family, the reason why this is like, you know, we're taking song is just because this does set a precedent. does set a precedent. So we want to make sure we're being really careful. And you guys just happen to be the first. I know. Okay. All right. So I just wanted to make sure that's why we're being so detail oriented. So how do my fellow commissioners feel about that? I just, different for you to, not know, but there's different... There's different applications. I mean, there's... On just on the front elevation, you have your standard brick and mortar. And then, on page left, of the front elevation coming from the street, you know, you've got what's clearly an infill wood panel with green trim and a darker wood. So it's different. So Madam Chair if I may. Yes. I think that might be where the installation of these is going to be very important. So in your masonry openings you've already got a painted brick, painted mortar. Now, staff would recommend that the actual shutters, tracks all of it match the brick. Not the mortar, the mortar is going to be less visible. It doesn't pop. It's not going to blend as well if you're painting it to match the mortar. If the mortar is, I don't know, gray. And I always think she meant it. It was white. What you want to match is the brick color itself. Now you don't want to install the, you don't want to put the, like the anchors into the brick themselves. You want to put it in the masonry in the mortar. However, the best way for this to blend in with the adjacent surface is to paint it to match the brick color. So that's where it will blend the most. Now whether it's painting the brick to match that or the shutters to match vice versa. OK. But. to paint it to match the brick color. So that's where it will blend the most. Now whether it's painting the brick to match that or the shutters to match vice versa. Okay. But with the wood infill in the side porch, that's where the installation of where these shutters are going is gonna become a little bit more important. Are they being fastened directly onto that wood trim, which is green right now, or are they being fastened into the masonry on the sides that might that's gonna change to the color and whether it's just painting the wood trim to match the accordion shutter beige that's fine too. Yeah but the last thing that I want to have happen is we approve these and then all of a sudden we end up with a bunch of beige homes because they're matching the beige color of that. That's like my, but I mean, it's a value, I feel like that's like a valid interpretation of it. And Ken, what we don't, you know, it deserves. There are other things. There are a picture of the side porch. Where's the side porch? That's, I would think you'd get custom colors and stuff. And so the question was, are the, the courting, is it gonna be drilled into the wood or the break is that where? Yeah, so that is a question. So I think it was typical from that, sorry, not, I'm not, I'm not where I need to be. I'm all over the place. I apologize. OK, here we go. So on the left photo, you have the porch infill. And I think what is typical for most anchoring, in fact, you can even see anchors on this. So I don't know if they already have some sort of fabric or corrugated panels. But they are typically installed in the casing or that trim, that green section. And that is my understanding. I'm assuming the accordions will run the same way as the rest of the ones that staff has been reviewing, which in the example images, the bottom, the lower right one here. This is an old Northeast. This is in a district. The actual anchors are in that casing. They're in the window trim. So assuming these are the accordions are going to be installed the same way you're looking at them being installed in that green trim section. Are the cordian anchors the same type of anchors as the temporary? I didn't think that that was the same type of anchor. No, they're they're that. They're essentially what you're seeing here in these photos, which are a track at the bottom at an attractive top and then you've got the accordions being housed permanently not being removed on the sides when they're open. Can you even I'm sorry, am I talking about it? it. OK, so can you even install for the accordion anchors? Can you even install it in the wood part? It doesn't, does anybody know that? Is that even possible? Can I do that? It depends on what the substrate is behind that wood trim, whether it's strong enough to anchor that track above and below. So we don't actually know that. Did you have a professionalist that they can install? Yes, I bought them. They are already contracted. They are waiting to be installed. I have installing company, I did several researches, and several companies, we got several estimates, and we got this company to do. And we got them to do. They come install, it had to be permitted. All, I didn't defer much information about the installation because it's not my thing. It's not even their thing, it's a permit department. Those things are guided by permits by the building codes. So they said that they can install the accordion. It couldn't. Yeah. If they say they can, yes, they can. By building codes, they can. I'm asking. So the accordion, they said they can or they cannot. They can, can. They will install on the wood, yes. OK. So that would mean they would need to be painted. Green?. Green is that I mean with the condition or you can look or if we wanted a accent color where that green is. Exactly. You understand? Yeah totally. I suggest that the meeting. Okay. We can match stuff. Okay. That's great. I'm just trying. Can we pull up that long list again that you had just a few moments ago? There it is. That one. So. I will make a motion to approve with conditions, following city staff's alternate recommendation. The certificate of appropriateness for the installation of accordion, hurricane shutters, and the clear polycarbonate panels on the home with conditions, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 of this alternate recommendation. I second. Madam Chair, for me. Yes. I'm going to direct this to Heather because this is not in the staff report. was just an an alternate. I didn't want to be sitting here at the Dias rewriting something. We're doing the record reflect that we are talking about that that is presented on the overhead and reviewed with the applicant by the chair step by step. That is that Commissioner Wanamaker is referring to in her motion. Correct. And that is what I am seconding. Can we take a vote? Okay. Magnello. No. Carasco. Yes. Davis. Yes. Nelson. Yes. Wanamaker. Yes. Michaels. yes, that motion passes Thank you You are free to go you're dismissed Thank you. Before you get into announcements, we talked about the first one. That may be a question better directed to Heather first, Ms. Judd. Oh, well, if we're ready to go into updates and announcements, we can talk about those questions and I'll address some of what Commissioner Michael suggested. So, Chair, are we ready for updates and announcements? Yeah, we are. Yeah, that's good. I mean, does anyone need a break? Are you guys feel good about moving into that? OK, all right. So we'll move into updates and announcements. I don't have anything for you. I just said a clarification question and maybe this is my fault. But so on the first one, on the barrel tile, we approved what was listed as staff recommendation. So instead of denying we did approve for the proposal, but proposal for number one. We took out the requirement for the mission tile so they could approve, so they could get their exact application voted on by this commission. I miss that. That's okay. But my vote wouldn't have changed anything anyway, but I did miss that. I thought we were approving what was here, the mission clay style. No, because the, and I asked that that condition be removed out because the applicant indicated that they were going to appeal. It was pretty, that if they got to know they were going to appeal. And for the purposes of that city council, I wanted it to be very clear that the commission's decision was on the application that they requested. Because unlike, well we have sometimes when staff presents that alternative and people are amenable to some sort of that, were very clear that they wanted what they wanted and they wanted to vote on that So that's what the commission needed to vote on at that time. Yeah my mistake I was prepared to to vote on it I just was not pleased with the products they brought today because I do know that there are other products And so my intention was not to improve it Well, the product that is approved is the product that they presented two day and not previously. But I guess what I'm getting at, even if I've changed my vote, it's still would have been passed. And since that is a new product that we're going to be seeing in real time, obviously there will be in future applications if they come for that. We'll have some more real time visuals for this commission that aren't just in pieces that that will help inform the commission's decision going forward and based on that evidence of the installed as built your opinions may change on that either for or against. So I would not want to to create the impression that this is an absolute precedent that now this commission will have to follow. That is something, anytime there's a change of materials proposed, that's still something that this board will have to consider on a case-by-case basis. Also just for the record, for maintenance, there was a lot of questions for that. It is a new material from a code's compliance situation. You have a roof-dischrepair issue with tile if a tile is missing. Tiles are broken. You have same thing with shingles if they're broken, if they're missing. In this case, if there's a piece of that metal that comes missing, that would be a disrepair. But also if that coding, that tile that is the subject of the approval is missing. In this case if there's a piece of that metal that comes missing that would be a disrepair. But also if that coding. That tile that is the subject of the approval is missing. And it goes down to that bear metal that will be considered. A violation for roof disrepair as well. So just going forward that's kind of how that's going to look but obviously we'll gather more data from the AS Bill. Appreciate it. And this is obviously one subject of several that are being debated statewide as we all try to figure out how to react to changing environmental conditions and so we will continue to keep that communication line open with the other certified local governments. Like we did in this case, we put a question out. There are approximately 80 now across the state of Florida. We received a number of responses and those were group responses. So everybody on that email chain representing their different CLGs were seeing the information come back to City of St. Petersburg and we'll probably report out the results of this meeting today and everybody will just continue to share because it helps staff and it helps us communicate that to the commissions as well. Off of what Mr. Michael says do we have any besides commercial property? Do we have any historic properties within flood zone X? Within flood zone we have mapped the impacts from the past storm and this fall and how that relates to our existing national register and local landmark districts and individual properties and so I think some of the issues that Commissioner Michaels brought up are things that We will be bringing to the joint session between this commission and city council Scheduled in August. It's obviously a real-time issue and I think it's something that both bodies will have To contribute to yeah, I think it's you know that you bring up a good point about the house is popping up. I mean, it's happening everywhere and it definitely affects neighbors and everything else. There are guides from the Secretary of Interior that identify best practices for renovating or improving homes to be storm resilient and still maintain what they are looking for for historic integrity. And so elevating the home is something that they do encourage as one tool of several. And then they provide guidelines for how to appropriately do that. And you've heard some of that communicated here in previous cases, but we probably will see more of that going forward. And just to add on to that, we are unfortunately going to have a large body of data on what was damaged and what wasn't damaged. And that is getting very close to completion now. Everyone's getting what's called a substantial damage letter. We've been sending those out. We're going to continue to send those out through the end of the month. But those damage reports are very detailed. They all include a photographic suite and it's ranked all the way from affected to destroyed. And so we'll be able to see materials and a, like what was affected and be able to pull some of those numbers throughout the year and see to have a more comprehensive talk about the results of that beyond just pure ratings. Because I know that was some of the questions where how old was it and how did it fare? We'll have, unfortunately, as I said, some of our own data on that citywide. And a lot of the national registered districts, like Old Northeast,, unfortunately there's a lot of data to that. So we'll get that compiled, look that and it's a great idea to have a consideration of this board to help guide staff going forward of what types of measures and protections and materials would be appropriate to approve it a. I think that that would be a really great, you know, presentation that we can do in a discussion, because I think too, just like this conversation that we had today with the Manson family, I think it would be a really great thing that we can reference in those conversations with applicants too, you know, hey, the city did compile all this data and this is, you know, what worked, what didn't work and I just think that that would be really great to be able to see and to learn from being here. And just a repeat, I know I said it right after the storm, but you hear a lot about the 50% rule and FEMA and if you become substantially damaged, you have to either demolish, raise, or move the home. And when we say raise, we're talking about, it needs to be at least two feet above base flood elevation, and in some places in our coastal neighborhoods, that can be as much as 12 feet. So it's not just a little, it's quite a bit, and that obviously would affect the profile of a historic property. But if you are an individually listed national register or if you're part of a district or individually registered local, you may not be subject to that. You get leniency on not being required to elevate the home. So if you're taking that out, what protection measures may mitigate the fact that you most likely your first thought would not be to elevate? I would, yeah, I would love to have a presentation to learn about that, because these are things that, you know, I feel like we're all having to learn on the fly in and real time. I would love if we could have a presentation on that to really educate us so that we can be as informed as possible going forward because unfortunately, coming up again, and I think that would be great to learn. I think later this summer and fall, we'll have ability to give at least a comprehensive show of the data that we've received. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Just as a comment here, the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council along with the city is putting together a task force or a committee that will be looking at various options for dealing with hurricanes and Tents rainfall and surge. And I've been invited to serve on that committee. Do you have any updates in an hour? One final comment. you know, we have described to this commission some of the challenges staff has been having with property owners in these districts and owners of these local landmarks who are purchasing products before they're coming to contact us to discuss the certificate of appropriateness process. Today was an example of another case where a property owner has purchased the product and then Contacted us to discuss the COA process so when that happens it puts obviously staff in a very difficult position and also the commission because those can be very expensive Mistakes in the timeline for that property owner. So I just wanted to point that out again. And it's just something we continue to deal with. Do you think that it, I know that we had discussed, when I first started about those handouts to educate people, do you think that, and I know where it's crunch time before storm season starts, but perhaps even like a one-page flyer just educating, hey, unfortunately I believe it's June 1st or May 1st is when it starts. June 1st. You know, just sending out a marketing flyer of, you know, it's coming, you know, make sure, you know, protect our home. I don't know how to word that, but I don't know if that would be useful sending out like an informational fire, although I do know that I'm sure a lot of people are very heightened after what happened in September, October. It's just something that I'm curious about. I think we'll have a lot of new communication channels open for the season from our division. Okay. Certainly one of the things that we can do is communicate at the beginning of storm season different resources and links to material that tell you how to hurricane harden your historic structure and usually the best way for us to do that is through the neighborhood association liaisons who can then filter that down to their email lists that maybe we don't have access to but they can channel it through their association board. Yeah okay. That's it. All right. Do I say anything? Or we just say this meetings adjourned? All right. Well done. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. Thank you.