All right, we'll kick it off here. So thank you all for giving up recently. We're currently in for a leave this. Appreciate your time. And we've all gone through this before. So we know the drill. We'll do that for here. Let's see. Opening talk. But how much do you have anything? Anything? No sir. Just grateful to be here. Thanks for everybody. Being willing to show up. And then you may have a council. Thank you. Open remarks. All right. All right. Next up is the suggested retreat process and outcome. So it's a curve here for thanking me second year. Thank you for the chance to be back again this year. I really don't tell everybody they're not either coming. It's your barma. You thought it was really good to work here. Appreciate that. What I would suggest today is similar to what we've done in previous years. Thank you all for talking with me ahead. And I did not talk to Taylor right, but I talked to all of you. So all of them were very good conversations and I appreciate it. There's a lot of consistency from year to year and what I heard. I think there's one difference that we would like to talk about. And there are six priorities that came out of conversations. And so I'll give you an overview of those. And then we'll walk through each of the six. And we can either talk about each of the six as we go through it or I can go through all six and we'll talk about them at the end. There's certainly interrelated. Sewer is kind of an overlay to almost everything and so when we get to it, it's up to you whether we talk about each one individually or not. So we would ultimately go to the end of the day, like to agree what your priorities for 2025 are so that Alex can develop those a little bit more and bring them back to you on the 10th floor adoption. So, the overview of the conversations. And again, thank you for your time. I admire your commitment to the town and you're all very positive about the work you're doing. And that's what makes you mine. I'm very, very positive. So a bonus surprise. And I say first because I'm revering to these in the frequency or the intensity that I've heard you discuss. So the first one is the Long Range Financial Plan, which you've already started. You have a budget process calendar that you adopted earlier and you're on track with that. You would chose three tax rates in areas to look at over the next couple of months. And so, you know, that one was either the first or second thing that came out of each of your mouths when I met with you, or the other one being sour. So, it was either one of those two, sour or financial. And that determines what you do with the financial planning, these determines what you do with the other part of it. So I'll talk more about that and go through the comments that I got for you. And then the other one, a sewer alternatives, which is a carryover from the last couple of years. and a few new angles to share with you on the conversations that we have. Union West Business Park, optimism about that, and beauty hasn't about making that work. And I know you had a plan and place so to the general assembly on the funding, and progress the last year. So, that one remains a priority. Now, the town center is one that's still a priority for you, but really is impacted by still work. And so, the conversations were, what did we do with anything? In this period when the sewer capacity is so limited to keep our town center moving forward. And then the last one was positive development ground the hospital and light rail and good conversation there and another new angle or two. So those five are all 2024 priors that at least based on the conversation the frequency with which they're mentioned. I would say you are on the track for those potentially being 2025 priors. The new one and the sixth wish, that as we shake out higher than that when we go through the list on frequency, was implementing adopted plans and studies that are not dependent on sewer capacity, and the additional sewer capacity. And we'll go through some examples of that. I think that is a great budgetary and philosophical policy discussion for you to have. We know the complications of sewer and even in the county how the solution next week, probably talking about 10 years of implementation. And so how do you spend these 10 years or 15 or 20 or whatever it is as the zooery issue is getting worked out? So how do you not disinvest in community? How do you continue to improve the quality of life for your citizens that you have now? How do you make when you come out of this sewer quandary? How do you make your town a place that people want to invest in and live in and improve the quality of life? So we'll talk about that. One thing that has been a priority in the past and I think think it's still a priority, or at least the important for you, is the equation of a state intersection and bread of projects with no additional cost to the town. I think you all, not all of you mentioned that, but those that did, that it was a path, we just need to make sure we monitor the path which staff is doing. And so from what I heard, that's not a priority for you. It's just something that is understanding that we important for you to stay on top of. And then one other observation, and this is entirely up to you, I heard from each of you some reference to a partner that is important to the future of the town. I listed the ones that came up, General Assembly in the county, Charlotte Beckham-Bert, Slytherin Charlotte Water, Atrium, the Chamber, Cats, the Business Park, and the neighboring municipalities. So there's a lot of different partners. They're not all intergovernmental. So we're here, we can call this, they're your intergovernmental strategy, but hospital and the chamber are not intergovernmental. So do you wanna consider having a more formalizedized strategy for your external partners that play a big part in what the town is and what's in it? That's just entirely up to you. I know you've done that on the business part with the General Assembly. But the issues that I heard are super capacity public trends at the street conditions, out-school load of crowding, things that definitely involve other people. And do you want to be more deliberate about what your strategy is? Completely up to here. So the cryo-res. And the first one being the long range, the financial plan, and prior words, once you're six, are listed in the frequency that I've heard them, and all six of you were clearly the first two. The comments that I wrote could be just one comment that I heard from you because I wanted to represent what you told me. For the most part there are common themes that I heard and their condensed into one statement. But first develop a property re-valuation strategy with an input relative to a a revenue neutral tax rate. And you've started that process by choosing the scenarios, the three scenarios that you consider again, or the point to the tenth. So you're moving in that direction. There were lots of perspectives relative to the revenue neutral tax rate. As you would expect, just as they were reflected in the free scenarios. So I think that's something that you know is important. You're focused on it and you're right on target with what you've done so far. Ignorance is the fact that the budget is not balanced. And so the current here budget has fun balance in it. You've got a good fun balance policy now. You've got a healthy fun balance. And so it's not bad or wrong that you've got fun balance in this year's budget to make it balanced for that you have it next year. It's just, I think this statement was keep in mind that at some point, it's in rate that you're on and they run out of it. And so, as you consider tax rates now and in the future, note that you've got a lot of one-time revenue. insurer appropriate spending levels, especially in a capital budget, validate that each project is still necessary. Some of that conversation started to come up in your budget, needing so far, and I'm sure that Alex and Aaron and Ingestin will do that for you as you move through the process. Concern about the potential of reducing current levels of service, those people were happy with the level of services that we're providing right now, and we're not sure that those didn't. Concern about the ability to recruit and retain employees. And I'm giving high marks on the staff that you have built in the Alex's put in place, really high quality staff, and I should recognize that and some people mentioned the concern about making sure he can invest in the ongoing forward. Do you use fund balance to slow the need for new revenues while recognizing fund balance as one time rep that. Focus on maintaining existing talents that's rather than in the growth due to the lack of sewer capacity. So this is going to relate to that theme and the question that we'll have a little bit later about what's your position in this interim period and what's next for the years. We're still alternating revenues such as proposed annexation of large subdivisions, a good policy question for you which you go through. Consider funding strategies to accomplish the street condition recommendations. I think you have studied here so here's over on street conditions, and it showed needs going forward. And several of you spoke specifically to that street condition study and the industry and the product continuing the product, and that on that. Limited sewer capacity makes us a good time to pause and step back, to better reflect what can be accomplished with an existing sewer capacity. You know, kind of put that in parking lot until we get over it, I think it's two-number four. There's zero financial capacity for council initiatives. A little bit of frustration in that people had ideas for things to do and there just wasn't financial capacity to do. Talk about that. We consider contracting for studies that cannot be implemented due to sewer constraints and to work available. So the thought here was the Commission studies that come back dependent on additional sewer capacity. available. So the thought here was the commission studies that come back dependent on additional sewer capacity and that is good use of today's dollar knowing that you can't do a whole lot to impact the capacity of the issue. And then finally in this prior value-weight these and charges to ensure revenues meet or exceed costs and that they are competitive with neighboring jurisdictions and market factors. So property tax, sales tax, there's big revenues and there's lots of smaller parking rentals. Don't know what the others would be, but this suggestion was to make sure that we're maximizing revenue opportunities from fees and charges going to the users and that they're competitive in the market. Okay, number two, sewer. And all of you were frustrated with cany-communication, which is not a revelation for us. I get that. I never seen a situation like this. So, you know, I've never seen a board do something, so I consider it a company, but when they realize the issues that are coming and if this was something that fits in here it wouldn't be a concern but knowing how long it takes to handle this situation I just never seen anything like that. Connection to a Charlotte water appears cost prohibper-hitative, but continue to work in the Charlotte Meckler as a appropriate to continue the conversation. And I still think that's a potentially workable solution. It may be that it got to get above the staff levels but and with Charlotte Water and talk to the county commissioners, those particularly the Matthews representative to see because there are things changing. And essential peace mod, whether there is additional capacity heading in this direction, and if you could pick it back on that, I don't know. But I still think, through all its hat, agreements with other towns for a lot of years, not a lot of towns, particularly Congo. So it's not out of question, and I get that it didn it can be considered that I wouldn't give up on that opportunity. Continuing engineering work is appropriate. So I know you had an engineering study done and I think there may be some things out of that that recommend the further study. study and that would make sense if you want to invest the money right now. And then one piece that's new here, become more familiar with package treatment plant technology and develop a position relative to their use in stocks, which I would suggest to you is a good use of time because it does take 10 or 15, 20 years. The market's going to push and the package treatment plants are solutions in a lot of hybrid areas with limited civil capacity. They used to be considered really that environment. I think they're different, you know, whether they're different sufficiently and it's comfortable allowing developers to do that. I think knowing how you felt about that going forward would make it easier as a position would make it easier than dealing with them in the quiet world. And it could decide where you don't want it. There's just too much risk. Where you can say, we do want them, that only in these places and only to be seen, it's up to you. But I think it's merred, having a conversation and talking about it. And did those usually come with the development part is that something that's usually segregated away from the environment. I'm just not that familiar. You've been footprint? Within the footprint of it about it about that. Yeah, they're generally within the footprint development. But I know that has to work, talking about the graphic. So, it makes it outside, but it costs it to be a developer. So, it has to be the way in cost that stands to fit in there and that would make you believe the students that they're within for print, but I guess they don't have to be. But in general, the answer to the question would be, is that that is not typically a solution, that is a development specific solution not a regional type solution could be That is a development specific solution, not a regional type solution. Could it be a regional solution? I don't think that's a question. I don't know if you're about to explain. Yeah, they are. Is it built in for a tiny initial use, but is it possible for a bigger area. It's an excellent question and I think so. I think that would be part of this study process to learn the process. I don't see what it could be. Package plans are just really many sort of things. Yeah. Then you die, so you can scale up to whatever size you would be appropriate. Yes, so let me give you all my updates. I met with that. I can't question. I guess some of the progress from that, of course, is going to be applied back to the bio-identical instruments and they could have lots of dynamics. If you want to see the process of being a candidate right now. We've got a PowerPoint presentation. You flew out to where the manufacturer at Arkansas, and you invited us. I don't know if they were there. But we've got a PowerPoint presentation. I think it's, you know, 10th or 24th of that. So I've seen it. As he said, the grand was there at the community meeting of Chris Grancy. The technology, obviously, aqua, aqua, sewer, and learning all second world, built in 70s, 80s. The technology is totally different. Everything is below ground. And so the only thing you see are the few event pipes. So the technology is totally different. It's the future. As Kurt said, if they solved it tomorrow, the county would be 10 years from seeing that Kevin was telling me he built it, where they can't get sewer, where they want to go to Hotel, they're putting in this private, back to the plant, on their side, in the center of the house. So, it's gonna happen And so Kevin was asking me about, they got five, I met with Alex, and David yesterday and we talked about something else. But they're going to buy the land with a mulch guy at the corner of the spring and the Steam and speed up, and bolts out. You can buy that property. And we want to know what we want for that, what I would like to put there. So it threw a bunch of ideas. The town home idea came up, Stone Freeze, Baby Nails, those things sold out pretty quick. I know Farhan would love it, and whatever the could be called next to the beginning of the call, but he could even have suit. He could be that putting a pact there. And it's all different sizes. The one for Chris Wands is huge, the seven-pound of all of the other players. It's not're right, they was right. We need to learn more about it. And so he has the first chapter, he's not going to show us his presentation, tell us what he thinks. And he's certified by the state to operate. He's back in place. So he's not just a catch on the sub-substant, but he's a better-than-the-time and everything. and the certified operator, because according to him, the state of North Carolina will require somebody from his staff who's keen to be on site at their package by five out of seven days of a week, when people find it. You said he invited you to go visit the manufacturing facility. Yeah, and see what I'm installing and not install. Yeah, I don't know if that's all good. I play with woodworkers all the time. I've talked about meeting down there, it's been granted. I wish I was very glad I could talk to you about that. Bransden's owned by Bass Road. Bass Road is custom owned by Alexander Verald. I have to talk about it. I don't want to be the home with a care like you, and I'll be there next year. But you have to come with that PowerPoint and answer the right questions. So to me, it's a few, I'm looking away 10 years to develop stuff around the idea of private sewer package development policy discussion but it turns me a little bit knowing Kevin, not going to know Kevin, but he's petitioning for the town to annex the development that we know necessarily having the ability to. And he's also coming to make that presentation. It feels a little bit of a conflict of interest. So in addition to that, I would do that for sure to learn. In addition to that, I'd love for it as part of this policy discussion. That's where we're headed to have an infinite third party and done interest in person who can make this education. My guess is Kevin's going to Kevin's gonna do a good job with that. You gave this, but in the back of my mind, I know obviously they're thinking he wants us to have an express win, whether or not we decided to do that or not, I don't know if we can. That's just my fault. And I like that. Well, the annexation thing is probably for him back home, backburned because he didn't think he had commissioners' works to get approved. And that's changed. Melissa, Gary and Brian Mills are home. We've got three out of five, so we've got the folks to get approval. So, I mean, Graham was there. The developer has no potential to ask for the mechanics and the solvents. And so, if it works out fine, then... He's got a developer. I't even know. So, Kevin is what? Kevin's just a landowner. I'll be selling it to the developer. Who was that developer? Did you remember, Grant? Through the Cade. They called him. They knew him another Christmas, and then someone must have chappled. So, I'm curious. We didn't want to rush to chapple the anyone up in a hundred of all of it. Those have sewer, I'm going to another Christmas, I'll invest in chapel. So I'll come back. Really, did you want to invest in chapel? They had one up in Hunter's hole. All those have sewer. I'm going to back in Platton. And Kevin just wanted to play a plot from a baby belt. You know, a baby? No, no, no. I'm going to get a welcome back. I've asked Detroit to park in service and pass that one last year for a sewer training for we're not the only missed out at the public meeting or knowledge base so they're going to have something for us which would be your end of third party presentations were all okay yeah but I do your question there's no incentive I can't I didn't know that I got thought he was developing. He's just paying big E-Veve $25,000 a month for rights to that property. So he's willing to get the property. Sure. Yes, we're starting on the front. Perfect. Yeah, we have a good vote. Okay. The next one was the business part. Pursuit funding for street improvements within the business part. Town investments could be tied to corresponding commitments by the association, including the administration. Excellent opportunity to rebalance the residential commercial portion and pursue tax phase and pursue partnership with General Assembly for funding for street improvements. So I think this is pretty consistent with last year with the exception of the action you've taken towards pursuing funding in General Assembly. But it was one that people had good enthusiasm over both economic development, some jobs, and the proportion of the tax rates. Can we get, like, I know you guys are pretty involved with that. Is there an update on where that's at right now? I had a chance to chat with Dean a couple of weeks ago about chamber commerce. And he was a little more receptive to the idea this time than he was. And he'll remember when I met first approach to the topic. And he was a, it was a chamber of commerce legislative goals. And then I think one of the topics was build commercial place in the New York County. And I said, maybe on that attack, attack right there, it's that you've been working to do this and it's really helpful. And I was told in the county to broaden on a tax base commercially. And he said, bring it up. We'll be seeing him more in that later. So, you know, in his L.A. Legislative, is there any? She heard it to his wife. Um, okay. Was like, what's that connection? Oh sorry yeah. And his wife is a holiday and she also furniture. Let me show that to his wife. He's got, you know, he's in a the man, she's an organizer, he's pretty organized too. And would that be me, something that would typically move as quickly as say the money that we got from P3 or would that be a more long one? So the sales tax that we're trying to get for the hotel. I don't know. Okay. We stole the very beginning. Okay. All right.. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. that are not dependent on the pseudonymum passing. Let me give you a little background, color commentary on this. When Alex asked me October to move her if I'd be willing to do this again, so absolutely, but are you sure it's necessary because of the sewage? Everything's kind of pumped up on the sewage. So yeah. So I was in the same mindset of, you know, you are where you are for a long time. And when I had my conversations with you, it didn't really come together in my mind before it came together in my mind until I got to the end. And I started to look back at my notes as I was compiling everything. And I saw in their comments from almost all of you, there are things we wish we could do that the Sue words alone in the picture. I'd like the town to look better aesthetically. I would like to be able to make investments in neighborhoods and quality of life things, but we're stuck behind the sewer. We'd like to keep moving forward. I'm worried about disinvestment. And so by the time I got to the end, I realized that there was a kind of a thread running through that that let's use the best scenario that it's 10 years before. So you don't want to do nothing for 10 years. And if you're not going to, if you're going to do something, and what is it that you're going to do, and the things that you have approved that do invest in the community, do the dress quality of life, do make it a more responsive community in the future to people who want to invest here. I realized that that was a really good point. And even though I came into the conversations thinking the exact feeling the exact same way that we're just kind of reverting the deck chairs, calls it sewer, but it doesn't have to be that. There are lots of things that it is that way of the colors. But there are also lots of things that you could do to continue investing. And just some four examples that came up in the conversation. And the list is probably much bigger than this. These are just the things that can implement the grid light plans, implement streets, state plans, sidewalk plans, park investments, the large parks hall that's for sale within the town center footprint. And I don't know if that's the hot, but they can model if that's something that you would repurpose like you have done with the brewery. just work at things that you have invested your time in in cases some money that you could move forward on in this interim period of the next five years to really invest in the community. So those examples, comments, what we have to be intentional about not letting the life of Sue or capacity ring to a period of disinvestment, focus on public improvements that improve the quality of life for our citizens now, and make strategic investments that will make the town more attractive for private investment in the future. So it's completely up to you what you do with this, whether it's a priority for you or not. It certainly impacts your first priority of an angel plane. But depending on how you feel about that, about this one, and moving forward with planes that are unfunded certainly in the interaction of budget discussions. But I thought it was a good philosophical policy to pay for you to have, given this period of sewer problem, how was silence going to respond? Do you want to continue moving forward? Do you intend with where you are? And I don't have a dog in it. That's all up to you. I just wanted to put that on the table and something that I heard as it weeding through all of our conversations. Well, I like it again and we mentioned sidewalks. In prior years, we had sidewalks, fun, who used to have money to expand our private sidewalk and we haven't done it lately. And there's something about things that the proof called it life. And we talked about it a little bit because we came to Charles complex and spent some time with him and they were, how do we connect, that connectivity we do by sidewalks. So, there's something we consider in our budget. I talked about this, I just kind of... I know that... I know that... No... No... No... I know that I know that, you know, at least my thing is on here is at least for the next three years or so. And I just didn't want to feel like I had a lame duck to show it up to the meetings and let this sewer kind of be a kind of a just black eye for the next three years and not do anything. So I was kind of my idea when I brought this up to you. It's just that, you know, I think the phrase I use is fall back and punt but I feel like we've got to make product for me. I feel feel like it would work for me to be invested in this role. I don't want to be just coming here to show up to the beings. I want to make it work while a role, which means doing things. That's pretty much awesome. Number five, we're student, the town center creation. And there's one that's impacted by student. But you mentioned it, Margaret, Margaret Cowell, I think it could be Margaret Cox, to really save storage up that. We're putting new businesses to replace businesses that have recently left and secure land within the town center and ex-reduced future private development. And again, that I don't know specifically about that, but I thought about the point of the Institute of whether it's either land banking or over repurposing. It's on that list. When transit was really getting growing in the mid-90s, I was a budget director. There was a lot of land that combined that core, which from a budget director's perspective, I thought it was years that we're never going to have a training. And so you don't realize, and then we started buying things that turned into transit stops. And I thought it was less stupid than we started make the sense. And so the public sector can make itself a platform to make development easier. And that's something that we certainly can decide whether you want to or not be done here. We'll read that. I know that was a hard decision to make. position and then it connects decision to make, but it ends up turning out well-free. So the question of this other land or investment that you can make is, is it worth doing that now in order to expedite development when you have the civil capacity? Well, while we're talking Center. I mean, I noticed that the center looked like a 3P update. You have anything or a Alex in the front? Yeah, sure. Construction's underway. And so we should be good. You can see active work out there. Yeah, I think once that gets done, I think that they said 18 to 24 months months we start to finish, but it will probably look finished much sooner than that. And I also think the improvements will help. You've got a lot of the transportation improvements that we see also coming in. The Weddington Road interchange, for example, by the Grace Family Y. That'll take traffic out of there. McKee Road Extension. That will also take roads. I think those improvements are going to help underway. They're fully funded by DIT with the town support. And I also think some additional future road projects that are in the active land or construction or near future are going to help take traffic off of the trees. Well, I got to believe once three feet finished, that would help development in that area. If developers don't want to come to look part-time and look like track, it's going to prove the former road being done. So it might take some time to go to help. It might. I'm not going to be in the right place. Yeah, absolutely. And Mayor Dad on that, the fault line, if you will, for the 12 mile is right by P3. And so one side of that will be within the 12 mile sewer service area. And as you all know, a lot of the focus of our upwards economic development efforts are in the middle of town and that's the Croca Creek service area and that's where sewer capacity is about to run out with no plan to add any additional capacity. There are 12 mouth creek and there is some additional capacity and some month and it's coming. And actually up to now, most of the work that's been done at P3 has been sewer expansion. So if anybody gets asked the question, Alex talked about the update there, is that the they're in between, right now there's no work going on over there, it's because we're in between the original crew that was been working out there. It was mostly free work and kind of more focused towards sewer and water movement and build out. And they kind of actually finished a little early with that work. So we're just waiting on the next group and coming out. So I'm sorry. I was just actually, I don't know if anybody know that, I mean, that puts sewer, you know, that sewer work was all up and down, wasn't playing as there all the way up until front of my neighborhood. So, what are their work, come on. It would be helpful for me when you mention things like 3p and then that it interchange it for 85. Why don't they work? It would be helpful for me when you mention things like 3p and then the interchanged at 45 And the key road extension it will be helpful for me to see all that sort of map and maybe have the council mail for everyone just to kind of see the Future land used now, we notice some of those things are under construction. The key road extension looks like it's moving very, very quickly and it's funded. That's going to be a nice thing. And then also the Mayor of Madden uses their developing, there's a developer looking at the land of 45 and then the road either understand that the fairly large, both commercial and residential, and then I also think, so that changes some things, it's sort of a gateway into stonelings and then I think about the little bar of the area right beside the Mekira station in the name of it. Any of these bunk houses? I keep asking myself every time I drive by, what's happening with that? You ever see it? It's a staple. What's happening that looks like it's in the construction zone, it will be moved or torn down. So have we reached out to Stadia, I don't think he was a former. Somebody knew, and I don't know if he knew. And Kenny moved to style and came to grab him. And offering something maybe in the house right next door. Again, little things like that. If there's a business that's going to be relocated and he's got a really good following, could we talk in about his play? That's a technical thing, not a big deal. I like it. I don't know who knows. I think he ran a restaurant somewhere in Charlotte. You might know I'm making that up. I think he may see us a little bit of an enemy because a lot of the cut potentially is clientele. They get impacted by arm cap and it comes up. Zero at the end could be substantive. The potential bar districts seem to help. Yeah, people, yeah, people like to go to bar to the same area. Potential. Potential. So having a right next door would probably not be great for the neighbor. They would probably argue about that. I would probably get the same part of the neighbor. It doesn't have to be there. We own some land that's going to be sitting there for the years. We'll do something. And it creates some sort of synergy between. and that might give us the inclusive use of street statement for our town hall to connect with it. Again, tactics not really, but just the bigger point was has our town center plan, East Plan vision, maybe change, because there's some of these state-private groups that attack that and look like they're moving that really quickly. Success. As far as the recruiting businesses, is there any ideas about how that would come about? Are we thinking about a development director or even part time or something like that? What would be doing that? That's a good question, Laura. I think it's an open question. I haven't thought about adding any additional staff. I know at the county level, traditionally, for many years, I'm in Roe and the county have had a partnership for economic development. And that economic development group has also served stallings as well. Now there's been various opinions about the effectiveness for areas in local municipalities. I want to know some jurisdictions have considered adding their own economic developer that would focus primarily on that. But that partnership is fracturing. It seems amicable, but where Monroe is going to separate into their own economic development. And the county is going to form it. So I actually talked when that was happening, Ron Moll is the interim interim director. But anymore, he's not okay. What is it? Old director for the New York County. Oh, okay, that's good news. Well, that's great. I was worried when he said that he was in there. But what Ron told me is we want to make sure that the county group is focusing on the municipality. So it may be what I would probably suggest is maybe to start before we go and hire somebody who's been on money, go and engage with them and see if there's a cost effective partnership we might be able to do. The next sentence. I don't think the staff here is, you know, we're pretty busy here. Yeah. You know, that's a pretty substantial job for someone. No, absolutely. Robert, be curious to hear your thoughts. Well, we don't have any questions. Yeah, some of this is new demand in the Robert and Commod. It's just good. Was the nature of the restructuring or the board? You can tell them. Can we let the charge? Does that mean that Ron's grief is no longer developing for Monroe, so that he's got really the county not Monroe, which frees up some of the funding funding probably has been challenged by the bed so could you just get a number four or has to have it come talk to us about the alien structure for that might be an opportunity that we could we used to have a budget line night for many twenty thousand for a part time person over there or partially pay a staff member on his team for working our town. Just as a stipend, not the benefit portion. To be helpful in those, there's an opportunity to do that. Yes. Can I ask a couple of questions here about when we talk about economic development? When I see, I mean, at least on this side of town, for the most part, when buildings become available or slots available, they seem to fill in pretty fast as far as new businesses opening up. No, we've got maybe one slot in this new building that's still open down here. But I mean, as far as businesses coming into town, it seems like they fill up pretty, pretty gradually. But it seems like at least one of the emails that was about the grocery store kind of had concerns because the Harris- the Harris-Teter Schuffington Center on the northernmost downtown tends to have open slots it sounds like but I'm not familiar with that so is that a true statement is is there a tip are they having difficulty keeping tenants there? Yeah historic I can speak from my anecdotal experience. Historically, that shopping center, Florida Road Shopping Center, Hank and Graham, you may be able to, you know, you're close to this. You probably see it much more often than I do. As a lot more turnover, a lot more openings than probably other areas of town. And it's probably what I perceive to be just a density issue, you know, around there. Whereas there's more density right here, more customer base. But we do see it. Graham, what's your experience over there? Yes there's at least three spots in that shopping center that are vacant to which I'm pretty sure have been vacant since I've lived here. Which ones is five here? Right next to like the physical therapy there's they're not big they're just you know you have have the hair's teeter, they have the physical. I think they expanded into that slot. Didn't they? Yeah, that's a big therapy. Well, one of them, I mean, there's still a sign out front that says, like, leasing. So, I mean, if they expanded, that's great. But for a while, there's a new test spot. There's a new restaurant that just went in at the end of the air seater. Yeah, we're probably 55 years to be. Yeah, I hope I wish the best for them. I hope the best for them. Not sure. I mean, it's a great location. And then Taxco's coming in. They're taking, it was a Mexican restaurant. They're doing another one, but tax goes obviously as a better brand around here, and I hope that those well are famous. There's always people in, it's a busy area, just not, I don't know, I don't know if you can see some busy. It's definitely one of those, if you go there Monday morning, I mean that gas station, Monday morning, is just jam packed. There are cars parking on the street to cut through to like the dentist office, The dentist office, I think, is doing well. I mean, you know, like Monday afternoon, just the gas station is lots of cars. The airsteader is a parking lot, it's a gym pack, but I think it's doing all right. It's just, it isn't a tough position because it's a smaller, air's theater. They don't have as many things. So I think people will still go to other ones. Or the public, colleagues. My wife will go to the public. So two things there. Is that, when I first rolled on to this group we talked about like highlighting businesses and I know that we don't do quite as much as that as we probably want to but I mean one of the things is that we typically do have like I mean we've got several new businesses here we've've got a new restaurant that's opening right here. I mean, I wonder if we could possibly, you know, even in a social media, like have kind of a standard format or something that says, hey, here's a new business. Go try them out, you know, and let them kind of say, give us a, what you'd like us to throw, and we can reach so many people being part of stallings. This is our welcome, you know, welcome stallings, gift to you to take it, try to grow up some business by social media, it's already established. So I think that's one thing. And then what I heard there is that sometimes some of the vendors that were getting may not be as like a better wording quality vendors potentially, and that maybe we have to look just drawn in more quality vendors there is maybe. I think I mean the free market capitol said we would say that the market takes care of itself. The next transaction on the left left for a reason it was all right. That Mexican? You talk about the Mexican Rosemary? Yeah, it's Don't. I gave it three chances in this truck out. Never been out. I'm being on the taxi. He's being nice. I'm on my phone right here. Being polite. But that's why I said, like, tax codes coming in. I, we know the tax code regularly over in Nell and other than once having a knife in a burrito. I're asleep. Yeah, I'm not even a burrito, but it's been consistent. That one was supposed to go to our friend in jail. Don't worry about that. Yeah, and what I'm interested in, all this conversation with Spark is what's going to happen with idle while with all the trader Joe's, whatever is going in there hopefully it is a true anchor sore. And then you have Paris Teter and the group of idle while I mean it could be hate it, that section could be very busy business section. Kind of mirroring, if you go further up by the while then you get to the loop, round about. Right, there's a lot of businesses, right next to that. Yeah, so it could be good, it could be bad. I, and then broken ground at the news, I can't remember what Matthew was telling me, the new wavly, but I don't know how long it's 40 or 5, so I'm moving very, and that means it'll be monstrous. So, and I can't remember, I'm sure there's a way of problems in there, it's where I'm not going to have to have to be treated, but I'm not going to be treated because there's a lot of grocery stores there. So if you've got a lot of grocery stores, you have a little smoke, a tea cart, a little grey, because you know, community brings us to do that, and it's a new supply of goods. What's the key to the end of the draw, but I would say it depends on what's going into that development on either the wild and the stone, the greater it is. If it's Trader Joe, that's a hike to your vendor point. I think that's the type of vendor you want because it's very, people go to Trader Joe's. You go to Trader Joe's Oberon, what's it called? It's a hike. You can't get in that park jet out sometimes. I mean, the store chain pack that's parking lots, GM the last GM impact any trader chose to go to just there's certain people to go to and they will forego like a here's theater and all the different storage Yeah, it would be good if we could find out what might be going in there. So you're going to have to take them out to the right or something. Just to close the on that. And when you talk about economic development, we were talking about Ron with the Unicanny staff. My guess is they're focusing on not so much on what you just described, which is a retail strategy for the town. If there could be such a thing, please think more about it from pointers and businesses. It feels like there are two different things we were talking about. have a both their appropriate, so the question will be in addition to Ron and the business park in Purple Road and CEM expansion, all that kind of stuff in the future. So there's something in that space that we tell. I don't know what that would be. In the past, the town of Staling's, the town Indian Trail and the Monroe Union County, the economic development group had a agreement to share the cost of retail recruitment, position, and it fell apart because why didn't you remember this Indian Trail backed out? And so it just kind of fell apart. But when Ron comes, that's something we could potentially relook at. Is this something that's just even you could ask and talk about with woman? Sure. I don't know if anybody else talks about I can run to the open and go to the door for it. I love it. I don't know if anybody else talks about development. What are you doing for it? A lot of the discussion has been around the focus of the sewer. So I think, I think Wilma is going to have to do the same thing. We're kind of discussing here, is that we're going to have to make sure that we're focusing on other topics. To know that sewer is what it is and kind of branch out with it. Friends wife. Friends wife. Who's my meaning of natural? Wake up more. Yeah. Okay. I had worked and I just wasn't any job. And I let David know like an hour beforehand, which of course wasn't enough time for him to divert and go either. So to kind of tie a bow on this, then sounds like the action item really is to engage with the new economic belt group specifically with Mr. Mall and kind of see what their structure is and learn what they can do for us right what kind of potential partnerships there might be and discuss potential opportunities when it comes to business or recruitment be it more employer industrial clean industrial type jobs versus the other path and it's not bifurcation it's it's cohabitation potentially is the retail side of it as well The ground was involved, different from when, but he's well aware of the West Union business partner. We probably wouldn't put that on there and make sure that the new organization is involved in it, backing you supporting us. Certainly they've got to have also a..., I mean given the scope of their organization, surely they have a, we know where, we know the sewer issues so certainly they're also developing plans to continue economic development with the sewer locations. So it would be interesting, I think, to hear what they're doing on that, and that's good. Absolutely. We talked about an infinite third party analysis for sewer, just like they're getting pressure, everybody else is gonna get that pressure. We still on the west from side of Union County. There may be a call share opportunity there with the county group. And that apologize for our business. Two Brad's point, kind of going off of that is, I understand wanting to go out you know go out and grow our businesses and get more but the other thing is I would have some concern that we are going out to get someone to do when we all serve and be blinded to losing who we have. So I don't know if we've heard any rumblings, but that would just be, I would want to keep at that piece of the human mind like how can we be sure we don't lose anyone? Because everyone's out there competing. So we don't wanna have some town kind of somehow off of something or, I don't know, I don't want to be sure we don't. We live some good businesses, right? We have the people who are building the trailers, we have the plastic, we have all our businesses who are building, we don our businesses are building. That's a good point. A lot of times when the global conversation of economic development happens, we're talking about recruitment and rafting in the end, but just as important, not more arguably is the retention of existing businesses is important. So we've got that down as part of that conversation. And are we hearing anything? Can we hear anything from those businesses? Not lately, honestly. Is that something we could do? Is that costs? Sure Kind of do just a delegative outreach Just go and kind of want to know more about their business that kind of thing In 407 He and his family tried to see him away from time. And we had to about that. Yeah, four-year-old son, Ian, you can't each other. We've seen Ian away from college. And we had to defend that. So, seeing Ian said, well, I'm going to be getting the economic world. I don't know if you're appreciated in being here. I'm sure it's an economic situation to stay here. But to your point, Grant, the Crown, you're right. You've got to film some more of something'm sure that you don't really pick off. So this is a big idea now. This is a little out of my work. I've always been concerned about the heavy industrial right here in it, pulled over the other night. As soon as I was talking about the noise, the jackhammering the burrows, which we're still probably out of discussed not here, feels like that's a big problem. The vault in Wonder is there a way out of that area to new roads going that way. I'm not sure, but all the talk about Marie Geras and the independence of the Key Road extension rolling down that road, the connected. It's a really outlet that could be built through in that direction to keep the heavy traffic, the ones that brought the country out here off the styling road. That's a huge idea. I don't know how the geography lays out. But I think we ought to be thinking about that unless those businesses don't plan to be there in the future. The concrete dust, the noise, jackhammer, and not the best. Yeah. All our businesses are good. Some of them are better than others. I worry about those and the the they have on what really could be of fantastic residential neighborhood, if the town center develops. That's a big conflict and always need that neighborhood for us. So could we put that on a big idea of trucks and where it is getting those businesses? I don't want to say this, like relocated necessarily because a neighborhood there could be great for the town center or at least a way to keep trucks going that way, west instead of on Sundays. I don't think I'm going to be able to talk about that, but it comes up with my mind for a guy. I'm talking to him. West instead of my self-respect. I would have been better thought about that but it comes up in my mind. Until recently, I actually had never until the time when I came up that I had never actually drove back there and seen all the stuff that's back there. I thought it ended with the building right behind and Very classic. So I was kind of shocked to see just how much industry we have back over there. And I did drive back through that neighborhood. I didn't see exactly where the burns were. We were going'll talk about that. If that's an ongoing issue, I'll mention this. I know you all don't want to get bogged down, but there's some potential things that we could probably do. I'm sure term if we wanted to make investments. Because I mean, you look at it on the app and it's a man that industrial use is right by those residents. And that area is going to be, you know, just completely re-orinated. And the value of those properties is going to go up so tremendously if we're able to be successful in our town center area. And just be turned into one of the proud and nicest neighborhoods in the town potentially. Kind of like how Matthews that area around that as they invest in the downtown especially if you're familiar with the mains for area around downtown Matthews their houses there they're being a super million bucks and I could see that back here too so some things we could do like, you know, even come in and make a public investment for more buffering of some sort. So I'll just plant that seed as well. That I think we've got some opportunities there that could get some results in a shorter period of time. But it would require some investments. And I'll put an idea down when we review the transportation projects, maybe consider that. And what we could do to kind of mitigate some of that community park, industrial learning issues. And it always will be put on the radar competing for the discretionary funds and the regional transportation board that I sit on in the in trail. That's a good job too. I think they were awarded five million bucks or something for two different projects in the in the in trail, which are needed on an in trail road. I don't always sit in those meetings thinking what do we have that we can qualify but say these are big things, congestion management is a big thing. So I wonder if some of this sort of big thinking about industrial separated government that would even qualify for some grant funding from the federal government through Carp. I don't I like we do it really. I shouldn't be blamed because I want the vice chair. Yeah, I don't feel like we do a really good job of seeking opportunities. We did it with 3P and it was good to get a one of the mistakes I think. Maybe the only time we got money from the government. I share that blame. I think there's absolutely absolutely room for improvement. I think that would be the Kevin that would have an axe or somebody. But we think about that. I sort of brought this up when I'm our conversation. But sometimes I think that we go with good job coming to the meetings and discussing things. Sometimes I don't think we do a good job at a H-SIG brainstorming, but brainstorming ideas and things like that and kind of openly talking about them throughout the year. And that sort of sounds like what we're talking about. It was some of the discussion points there. Maybe in a upcoming meeting, maybe you could kind of do this kind of a map and some of your thoughts on what we could do back there. Absolutely. You know, you're right, Stephen. I think this is true for organization, but also us as people, right? We get so busy being busy that you lose sight of the big picture sometimes. And I think what that tells me is what we could do, like with the transportation conversation, plan intentionally to set aside time to talk about the barriers. I think sometimes we even with the council meeting it's like, are we done yet? Are we done yet? And I'm not sure that fostering is probably the best brainstorming stations. So, and it sounds to me like, I mean, this group has got a lot of good ideas. It's just sometimes just cataloging them and talking through them. It takes time, takes effort, and then put it together a plan beyond that. Obviously, it takes a lot of time, not for this, but just something to consider. or on the end of reality of it, is that somebody mentioned in the vote about the current mentioned that we're restricted by, then it's money to have. Exactly. We have a lot of fixed costs that we all have been proud of business and we're not about fixed costs. It's something that we can have on the path of that. There's links. We're going through AI re-invision at work on, and let me stress that what that really translates to is how much dollars are we going to eliminate from the budget by using AI. So they can give it whatever fancy name they want to, but that's what it really translates to. Let me take those fixed calls. Okay, anything else on that? All right, last one. Who was that? Was that still Towns Center? Or all that? The London Town Center, got this, I have an idea, and it's going off. It's going off. It's going off, okay. Well, thought that was under town center that miss uh uh yes it's going off it's going off at town okay well, what about was that town center yeah yeah yeah I think the spin-off was a business retention yeah uh Max and I are buzzing about the hospital and a preparing like real uh, It sounds like in the conversations that you have a good positive relationship with the hospital and you have a good sense of where they're going. And know that we just need to continue with the monitor to keep the impact on the University of IP of what they want to do. I assume the development around the hospital is just a sewer dependent, but I don't know that.S.C.I.P. if what they want to do. I assume the development of RAM hospital is to sewer it, that I don't know that. So, I guess either sign and take it up to you, start RAM, because more medical, off-the-build, across the street. Yeah, it comes in and you say, right? But the ones that are on the out, without parts of the hospital, Oh yeah, they were stupid. But how much sugar does it offer? No. No. So how much? I mean, if I like that, because what the cramps in, how things are, a lot of the people who are working hard to live in, just don't create talent alone because of proximity. One feeds the other. So we'll see when it says coming soon, that's good for me. Good, good for you. It's not like a movie is it's not like a movie. Stay involved with discussions about the silver line, including those rapid transit, and keep appearing from mass transit with the arduous diction and adjacent municipalities, especially the town of Macbeths. Like editorial comment, Matthews has been the strongest advocate proponent of the transit system from the beginning, and they got the chance. I think they will claw back some of that power in the next couple of years. And maybe, first of all, the trains which I used to not be a fan of, now I am. And so, I still think it's something's going to come. Oh, ever since I met him, I've been driving. I've been doing this many years. And I've been doing this for nothing that I've heard. Because I can tell you, I know those contributions that have tended at me. They were, when it wasated and not well-prepared as it was possible. It was an embarrassment. They're not being foreshadowed. They have that tough leadership, however they have. That's one of the most important questions that I've seen this morning. You know, there hasn't been a bill that's passed, right? So Charlotte had a bill and didn't they occur? Yeah, but it hasn't gone anywhere to my understanding you heard anything It's working The bill that what so Would basically get the sales tax in place? For the transit would exclude the silver line for the one that would become through Matthews and ultimately stateless. It seems to me like Charlotte has completely, lots of levels completely dropped the ball on a lot of things. Like the Gateway Station, they were supposed to open that to kind of like a standing platform for Bicock, like almost two years ago, and it still kind of just stuck. I'm kinda... Anyway, yeah, I'm of randomly, but it just... Just seemed to be randomly. Yeah, it just seems to be like they just... They just drop the ball. It seems like... It doesn't matter what other organizations do when it gets to the political side of it. They can't see the impact. It seems brand-new. It's just not being the same. It's just like that. All the pit of scratch, all the counsels that you figure out, all the commission of I just thought so. I was very impressed with it. Well, hey, but enough. They put aside money for a new stadium for owner who can build 15 of them and still be a billionaire. Yeah. Hey, 14 is not going anywhere. I just say it. I don't know. Okay, well, I mean, what is, if we need to engage Matthews for money and say, hey, what are you guys doing? It's a good idea. One of the action items we can have is just checking with Matthews and kind of see where things are at. We've got to the holidays now. Would there be any appetite on their interest to develop and be not necessarily the staff Let let me counsel about the staff, let me do that. Sure, with the CPC development and the land over there, the key thing extension, we really are in the Sontay development and the Stinson Farms development right across the interstate. Do we all do we do a lot of probably done? Not formally. I know that's something that now that you say it's like what you have to shoot. So that might be a great opportunity of putting that to you here to maybe formalize you know like I saidits are being busy. We need to be intentional about setting aside time to do things like that. Well, I think it should have been, I'll give Mayor a thought. He's an, uh, uh, any trail matching to many of these minor athletes, uh, contact with, uh, which one is Matthew? Matthew, okay. Yeah, maybe it's Mayor, here for a term, and staff, and me, and, uh, and anybody is welcome to come. I got a question. Yeah, maybe it's Mayor, Air Force, and staff, and me. And anybody is welcome to come. You know, we could do a joint meeting if we wanted to. Because I know Becky, you know, I think you have a great relationship. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Provide this information whenever we need it. So I'll see what he's going to do. I'll see what he's going to do. I think it's... I think it's... I think it's... I think it's... I think it's... I mean, you'd be able to get pretty here. Yeah, I think it's next election. I was not great. I guess it's all obvious. I don't know. I don't know if you know. I probably should know if you're not from your election, right? So they always, they're from your opinion. Is that so they only do three jurisdictions. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No they only do three years since. Interesting. So the summary of the six priorities that came out of our conversations that tax rate a long-term financial plan, financial balance, and setting what you want to pay for and how you want to pay. Stewer alternatives, I think, with the difference this year being maybe being more intentional about package points and learning more about that. The business part, the general assembly, advocacy for streets, and if you don't get that, is there a fallback position, a fallback issue, or is that something for the future? It's implementing adopted plans and studies, And if so, which ones? We talked about some years at Fort Listen, some that were listed. So if you want to move forward on those, which ones? The Town Center creation, still important, skill priority, but not a lot of active work to go on there. And then pretty much the same as the development around the hospital and by flight rail. This was doing fine, staying in contact about impact on the CIP and maybe supporting Matthew's already came to the floor. So those are the six I heard. So he can choose to disagree with any or all of them. And talk through those. But based on conversations, more than a majority of them talked about in some way or another each of these things. I will pause there and let me So, we have these back in Alex and Aaron. Well, that's a broad range of stuff. And the physics and effects of all the areas. So, I'll have to find out when you did it in one year. So, it's a long range. All those projects, a long range of them, I think. Yeah. I love to buy it off the tube and one year and so it's long range. All those projects, long range, done by them. They all depends on how much money we have each year. That's why I'm hoping we get that $7,000 from freshman and then the management. That's why I've done so much product. Can I agree with that?. Those priorities are still, as you said, there's a reason to meet now, because priorities near the world over the same. Now, smaller projects like I mentioned sidewalls, I think, are going to have that. I just have some years and it feels like there's a lot to do still, but all sorts of starts with the first one on range for an end to plan. It feels like there's a foregone assumption that we will be needing to increase revenue, which is an euphemism for raising the tax rate. And I just feel like that's, I think that's necessary in government as inflation moves up, tax rates need to sort of pace in general. I feel like our citizens don't quite understand the level of more vision, things that we're talking about here that they may be interested in. Some of them most of them probably don't many of them don't know any of the styles as we've learned over the years because the post office thing. So I guess I'm asking is there a conversation we had more broadly than we normally do. John's great to be here, but I know what John's here is plugged into the planning board. He's got the best of interest in the town, but it's almost inviting discussion which often doesn't go well. We're talking about taxes and increasing. I feel like my vote for the budget this year will be cast with. Dang, I hope nobody knows this. You know what I mean? I don't love to do it that way, but I'd love to have more citizen awareness, not just the cost for personnel until they're going up, but you got a pretty long range plan that we talk a lot about the future style links. And sometimes it like things I want and we want to mature a cool downtown center without realizing there's an economic reason for a cool downtown center because of sales tax revenue and it sort of all works together. I'm rambling here. Well, you got to have a plan. It's just a long term plan. I mean, somebody once told me that if you're not growing, you're done. And... here. Well, though, I mean, you've got to have a plan. Just a long term plan. I mean, somebody once told me that if you're not growing, you're done. And places that don't have some of the growth to them. I mean, all of us can drive to those areas and see what's happening to them. They're decay. What we don't want to do is we don't want to stagnate. We want a vision that is pushing things forward so that we're not decaying, even if we're not growing so to speak. And so I think, I mean, we, I mean, as my wife will tell me, you can kind of see things, areas right down 74, up in Matthews. We have to be very cautious about where we think the town will be at in 20, 30, 50 years. And I think that's where we're looking, where some people are thinking next year, the year later, we've got to make sure that they know that we're trying to look out for the next generation to be. So some of this was like how do we test what we're thinking is actually right? And we think more about the town than the average, just number as in the end of Shadmore, rest in the river. Is there a place for a broad community meeting or discussion? is there a place for a broad community discussion about the long range financial plan that sort of sets the expectation that we'd like to do these things and we think we should from a development standpoint sort of intensifying development toward the center evaluating annexation outward. Is that the right thing or not? But grow, if you don't grow, you're dying. That whole premise is that true and do we have enough people to, so that you might then build in the long range financial plan, an expectation that every year, and I'm making this part up, but every year there'll be a one-cent tax increase to keep pace with inflation. That might be better than a three-cent every four-year, it's kind of conversation. So I can swallow a one percent tax increase every year perhaps, but rather do it if I knew that I've had input into the town I kind of know where to go. That sort of that comes to mind so the long range financial planning is our number one priority. We spend a lot of time talking about two through five. They're more discreet and project based, but there's still this underlying thing about being able to afford the things we're talking about, and the other things we're talking about, and they haven't generally brought acceptance in our community. That's the big thing. No, to address your question, but the response from 1 to.1.5 out of your same email call phone call. No, I don't expect that to either. Yeah, I did think, but if I wanted to, if one guy said that was probably a fireman raising taxes. There was some social media. I personally invited everybody that had a negative comment to, you know, that I would sit with them one-on-one and we would go through the budget and anything that they felt uncomfortable about, that I would, we would review it and it's necessary that we could cut it from the. Every single person that I personally invited to do that, you all see them as much as I do. Maybe I'm seeing ghosts around the corner and aren't there. And that's probably true. Again, I feel a little more responsible to talk about rather new increases when I know that what we're talking about, spending the money on is actually a little bit better than them. I don't talk to anybody who understands. Revalve or even the benefit of a commercial, residential mix, why that's even important. A fly-at-town center might be more than just entertainment, but it's like this structural financial thing to reason you knew it downtown is not for the bars for the revenue that funds the sidewalks. It's great to have a place to have an inscranked place and then yeah. Even though I expect a lot of feedback I agree that he was still need to figure a way to communicate much more and all. I think social media sucks for that, excuse me. No, you're right. I mean, it can be a fishing boat, but it's not good for a 10-bay. No, so what I found by accident, out of the year or so ago, I went to a cold, cold a little far from a coffee club that I realized, like, I don't want to. I don't want to. But I went to a cold, cold meal, farce coffee club that I realized I didn't like. But I went because somebody asked me if I could explain something. I thought, I'm not sure if this is an opportunity to get to do more of my neighbors. Well, now it's a bioprene. And then it almost always the first thing you ask is, what's going on in stone? And a year ago, when we were going through this budget process, like, explained what we were doing with the police department, and the pay raise deal, and put in all the details out, explaining all that. And I said, man, I still want to cut your police service. I said, yeah, I don't have a one-minute cut.. So in every conversation I've had with anybody, they're perfectly happy paying for the least. Have any of the opportunities to talk to them? And maybe you can start off, hey guys, we're going to increase taxes. First thing that you're going to do back, say that's the long way to address it. The first thing you're going to hear is, well, it's a moment and a moment. But if you can win and say, here's the situation, what would you guys recommend? Well, they say he almost has to raise tax. He almost has to keep up with inflation. Over to the cuts room, this is an Alex, I can't remember this number. I'll talk to him anyway. If you have some fixed costs or relatively fixed costs in our budget that kind of total about 70-80 percent between police sanitation. I can remember it though for a big thing. Most of that was from the fundee fundee. There was a third one I can remember it was. But, could could just, well, that's sanitation. Please, please. And it could be just general government. We're not rowing size wise, but we are keeping up with the salaries that are quite bring quality and keep quality staff. For those three things, hold a fairly large percentage of our budget. and pull those out that left a team that left and to get your level of your tax increase, like hitting just that area, which is a little more discretionary. There's nothing left. There are literally in parts of the rack and not have to do a single thing for tax increase. I can't remember those percentages, but we would have, and I didn't remember better last year. That conversation was a whole lot better than I understood. What we get that is, I want to get, and I think we should all consider this, talking at our HOAs, or going around to visit some of the other ones and just talking to them. A conversation with what's going on and explaining with them more. This is how it's what we've got to deal with and how we're going to deal with it. It's fun. Yeah, once in a while. As a superman, you say part of our number one priority long range financial plan has some some ramps to hang some stuff off of us about speaking points, community engagement, HUA visits, more proactive, inviting conversations. Well usually in general, but HUA, early coffee groups tend to be sometimes the HUA officers like when I go to the Champ Arches just to that ideal with the Mac group. There are just people that are in touch with a lot of people in the community. So it gets helpful together and I can input the communities beyond the help with up the voice for as well. Did we feedback that I'm going back and understanding what's going on? I once did a survey done. You know, you're building your above, couldn't you at college? And the town I worked in was having to have Marist College so they do surveys. So we had to set up the questions in a certain way. Like you were saying, you don't say, hey, you think you should raise taxes or that kind of thing. But we asked that kind of question and in general, what do you think about traffic? I don't remember the questions, it was 20 years ago. But, you know, people said, no, of course, don't raise taxes. Well, what about this? What about roads? Oh, yeah, fix the roads. Well, don't you know, should we do this? Well, yeah, do all those things but don't raise taxes You know like what you're saying is you've got to People need to understand like the rebound people You don't understand the rebound, you know a handful of people understand it, but Most people don't and that's you know what that's what I, it was an eye opener. People don't understand what government does. You sit around and just raise taxes. Don't ask us what we want. And I think that's universal. I mean, maybe some towns and cities have huge people, huge about it, people coming to, you know, it's usually the regularist, but coming to meetings, like we don't really have a lot of regulars that come. And, you know, they usually complain, but at least they can tell their friends. And, you know're actually doing. They're trying to do this and that. But what you're talking about is a good idea to, maybe you go to an H.O.A. meeting and there's five people there, but at least the people on the age of way, I used to be on my age of way, you know, we'll understand, you know, whatever the questions are, whatever, you know, we talked to them about, because it's... We want to joke that we're going to put together a meeting, explaining why we are raising the tax rate of 45% 45 cents. We once joked at Wuma that we were going to put together a meeting, explaining why we were raising the tax rate of 45% and how we were going to take a partial, a partial, a lot, and we're going to build 3,000 apartments. And that's what we were going to put on the engine because if you did that, you'd have people show up and ready to talk, but we've. Because, other, because you can beg people, I guess this is what I've found in this role. You can beg people, you can get, going to be angry. And I hate to say it, but you guys know that I'm pretty active. I try to be very personal on social media. And the people that have been angry, there's been a few that I've met that now I consider to be people that I can call and talk to or they'll pick up the phone and talk to me. But in general, I would say the vast, vast, vast majority of people at the end of the day, just okay, I mean, I hate to say that out loud, but that's kind of the feeling that I get, is that unless you were to make it sound so horrible that the interest level is just completely not there. I mean if we said we're gonna take this property across the street and build a sewer plant, we would have a massive gathering of folks. But I mean once they all got there all we've decided not to but we think this would be a good time to tell you how taxes work and and what not. You could just tell them you weren't gonna pick up their trash tomorrow then you get there. All we've decided not to but we think this would be a good time to tell you how taxes work and what not. You could just tell them you weren't going to pick up their trash tomorrow then you get them there. I mean that would be another thing. It's like hey, it's a good pick up your trash. Trust me they come out. They would definitely. What do I mean that? Well good. Let's consider making a move playing that. Maybe people are the right people for any attention and they'll understand cost cost of living increases. We have to bear staff and police force. What are you going to about the strength of that personnel? Let's shake and talk a lot. I'm going to be able to do that right here. You're going to write that down. Yeah. You're going to court it or you're going to say it. Fair enough. I'm like, it's a nine-by invite people every year, well, about every year, but every year we've raised taxes. But I feel like back to the bigger heading, long range. I don't think we're talking about long range. We're talking about next couple of years. So what is the answer to long? What is long? Thanks for one question for you, Patrick. So you said inflation. Is there a magic number where it as inflation goes up, our values go up and we're always on the slide. What's that all about? That line would be... Tax rate, right? Oh, I'm great. That's so... If you're thinking. I guess... Is it eights? Hypothetically, is there a magic bullet point where your revenues, values, mean your housing values, your sales tax, the revenues that we generate and inflation are kind of growing it the same rate in such a way that you're able to keep it constant, taxed, rate. So this is generating this this is growing at the same speed if you will as inflation and so keeping that same tax rate is constant. I mean, yeah, sort of I'm doing a bad job at swanging that book. I think you're asking the same question and asking. Different way. Yeah, because it is that it's got books long, is it three years? Is it that long? We're talking about a budget cycle that's every year too. It feels like when you say long term financial plan, it feels like it ought to be 10 to 15 and it builds in an expectation for even future councils at least consider that back in 20, whatever, 25 to 6, that council saw and adopted a long range plan that for saw this and the expense side, the sum of the revenue side, potential for revenue increases in line for your valuation cycles of an x percent of revenue growth. So I think next week, they're saying, yeah, we should be raising taxes this year. Maybe not next year, last year, this year we should be because our plan says we should that's kind of one one so we don't do a lot of debate always something to make but there's a is there a way to develop something like that I've never thought. Yeah it's a good question but I'd you to because I know y'all I would in my experience and I think we talked about this a little bit at our budget. And to answer your first question is, when we did our analysis, protecting it out, as you all know, we did five years. I wouldn't consider that long-range planning. I think long, some of this is probably subjective, right? It's more than 10 to 15 that you looked at. And so I would say we're probably more talking about mid-range, mid-term financial planning. And I guess the idea initially was to go from, but I would consider short term, right? Which is a year to year. Because when you do that, you just worry about the year, you can have a problem compound and build up where it feels insurmountable. And then I know we talked about going looking at two years, right? That feels more realistic. I think the challenge is going 10 to 15. And really, even out to five, is that the numbers get so heavy on assumptions and predictions and things change too much. They lose some of their value, the part that you go out. Well, isn't there, like, when you do forecasting on far out, and I've been just taking what little bit I've done in the Bay of America, there are the strategies and thoughts that you use for this year, next year, use, start using what you consider to be real numbers or extravagant numbers. When you start looking at midterm to longterm, you're looking at kind of, you're not looking at numbers as much as you're looking at strategies. And so I think I think that might be the the difference here for me is that we're always looking at the numbers, but maybe that's not what we should be looking at. Maybe we should be looking at, you know, based off of what we're doing here, you know, we know that the police's budget is going to grow this much. What is the strategy around policing? What does, I mean, at least the budget things I've been on, it starts having less numbers involved, and more ideas around what the plan is there. And so I don't know. And then the less thing I'll say is, can we cut our meeting of a meeting time pain sort of threshold treats in half by doing something like a two year budget cycle? And it's more time. But we just be at Doppin' in 2026 right now, but two year budget so we kind of know that the next two years we're going to have these revenues, these projects. So then maybe there's a touch point for the council next February, but it's true they just only have something dramatic do bad with change, but really not that it's been one of the time. Because as we saw, priorities haven't changed in the year for the most part. They're all generally saying that that's expected. But is there just a principle that you just do two-year budgeting cycles and saves everybody time? And all that stuff. Yeah, I want to tell you that. By the way, the city did a two year, what did that look like? Well, state law requires you to do it annually. So the, we would do a two year budget in, in period, so it wasn't rolling too. And, uh, the primary early effect of the general fund seems capital projects were life today, but Council would adopt the first year and adopt the plan for the second. In general, there wasn't a whole lot of variation from the adopted plan to what Council actually adopted statutorily in that second year. And so if you have the capacity to tune that, I think it does work. It helped us a lot. And that made the focus in the first year, generally on the operating budget, mainly down the assumptions for the two year period. And in the second thought it was primarily on the catholic budget because that's the one that was continuing to live beyond the two years. Interesting. We're talking about, I mean, interesting. I feel like that's kind of where we were going based on the conversations I was hearing from the board in that, all right, we're talking about this, we're looking at it really in that two-year period. It's not like naturally that's kind of where we were going anyway. And so maybe just to be intentional about that, it's kind of, I'm so trained, right, as a local government to go on an annual budget, right? So it's having to retrain my mind, as we said here, to think about it on that basis. But it's doable. It's been done before. Yeah. Only there's an advantage to us to do that. I do a city, I do remember the city's budget process. I remember thinking it was like a two-year cycle. What advantage was that? And then it's a list for having them read and read I think it's a little bit easier. Maybe it's what this would be. Kirk, you mentioned if you have the capacity to do it, when you think about capacity in the situation, what are you talking about? The human resource capacity. If you can project, particularly on the operating budget, two years worth of reasonably valid estimates. That's the capacity of 2019. And so, if Jesse, for example, can, with a 90 plus percent level of confidence, project Project 2627 today, then it's worth the effort in the time. Anybody feel like a helmet? 50% accurate here, just kidding. Thank you. If I could just throw out just as a sign of, you know, Brad, I think even David, we're talking about avenues to get your Council's message out. And obviously, HOAs are a good one. But the mayor may remember a couple of times in the past, well, first let me say involvement is not, we're not alone. It's every town, it's every organization. I mean, all the outside organizations I'm involved in is like pulling teeth to get people to do anything. I mean I let it boost or club's anything, right? So it's not a new problem but what we did a couple times mayor, I don't know if you remember, the people on your committees are the people in the community that are willing to serve, right? All of our communities, planning board, community committee, whatever. Those are the people who have said, hey, I want to be involved. What if the council meets with all of the committee members and shares whatever you want to share? They are active people in their communities. They are by nature go-gitters and talking to other people because they've already shown their willingness to be involved. We have done a couple times a council meeting with specifically asking the committee members to be there so that council can have discussions with them and let them understand some things that are going on. So just a thought. I mean those are some of the movers and shakers in your community are the committee members. No. It's a great effort. Is it good to get it all done on what meeting rooms and going to run? Yeah, and we, I mean, it's been many years ago, but we have had, you know, we kind of called it a all committees on debt meeting. And obviously it's still public open meeting, if anyone from the public wants to come, but specifically for the committee members, for you guys to meet with them, with a specific agenda, so that you can inform them of some things and also give them a time period to ask questions. What do you all think about the P Percu? I like it. I like it. I wouldn't add one more meeting to our calendar. That was my first thought. That's a council meeting. It could have been a dinner before a council meeting. It would have been a half, 30 to seven. Here's what we're going to be doing in the budget season. And feed them. And have buffet and send the chambers informally and talk about it. And we're talking about here, we're all level in. We can also already approve a coffee with a personal member. Last fall, I think, and we've had volunteering to be the one and nobody else, of course. But we have done it, we really like to get that one. I've been more of it in trails, coffee with the players, the half of our room, far from coffee with the console. I don't know what it's going to be. It's partly good. It's time. So how would you want to hit that? I like, would you just pick a location and go to have coffee there or kind of a check? Check that out in two ways. One to get that panteres Clubhouse brought in coffee just like this only known as a library store block basedries and coffee containers. They did it there and then they did the old skills over at the Kaiswing and they had the ice cream provided by the refresh rate. And the meat moved there. So either way, this room right here will be perfect. With a lot of coffee and paste freezing, what probably cost very much. And we'd have to go do anything elaborate, could move around town, but we're not that thin. So it's a very central bouquet. Do you want to go. Tell me about the name of the last one in the... well both of them pretty well at the time. That's it for you. Which time? It's great. Yeah. And last one also had a report. Michael, Michael, on the appeal for you. You do. I mean, and just a thought too, you guys don't meet to meetings in July and August. If you wanted to have that second meeting in one of those months to do the committees where that's the agenda, that's your council meeting agenda. Just thought. Yeah. Yeah. Have the dinner and use it as a thank you and give him an opportunity to budget for all of that point is approved. Well, I'm kind of sure with them. Seems a little too late though, right? I mean, I might misunderstand very well like we wanted to do that beforehand, right? Before the budget is approved. What was my thinking was just sort of, Now it makes a mad, it gets out there, and we lose understanding of the bulk process we've given to the budget this year and every year if we have it in the budget season. And I think that would be helpful too, because we often have questions from committee members. you know, well why can't we do another pick-a-ball court in court in the park? Well, it costs money and there's a budget and we have to get, you know, so I think just on those very simple terms, it would help them understand why we, you know, you can't just snap your fingers and it's done. There's a lot of other things. Can I ask, we have a planning board member here, who has a mind ask in them. There's a opinion on this, actually, with my passing feedback from a committee member. John, you have anything to add to being involved as a committee to feel outside the circle of... It's kind of from what I'm hearing, I I was thinking we're talking a lot about you know bringing people in go to where people already are okay could you wouldn't be an appropriate to do like a five minute talent up there at a PTO meeting at the elementary school or something we were reaching young families and even if you know it wouldn't be an appropriate venue for having a back and forth, because if you get out of control with them, people, but at least people would be having idea, hey, they go back to there, you know, you have people from every neighborhood represented there. People get back to the neighborhoods and then just start having conversations with their friends, hey, do you know how much to do a minute? So that was just an idea I had as you were discussing that. Thank you. That's excellent. Well, it might be a good timing. And John, as I said, my wife was doing an interim, we've gone to love with the view unless you own that land. All if we had the money to build neighborhoods. I don't know if that's the end of the issue. So, after your point, John, yeah, I'll give the council a call with some suggestions to give you five minutes. You're right. You can get out of control quick, but hey, I'll bring my wife up on stage. I don't know if I can tell. They were very, Miss Gatti was very helpful with us when we went and presented, you know, Happy Birthday Stalling, so that all the kids knew and could start their art project. They were very receptive to us presenting. Yeah, it was great. So I'm a great idea, and Namal says since he wants to support for the committee meeting ideas as well. Maybe the sweet spot for that is after the budget is formally presented before approval in that area. That makes sense? Did I get any of this hard work? What did you get? Say the jibs can't say anything. Yeah, so the idea of meeting with all the committee members, right, and giving them an update on where we're out of the budget process, how is suggesting the sweet spot might be after is budget is presented before it's approved? Because if you start too early, things are structured enough right. Decisions haven't been made right up until that point. It could be unproductive. But if you do it after it's approved, there's a desire to do before that, right? So the sweet spot might be once we have a draft budget together, right? After it's presented. I like that. And before the assumption that, yeah. That makes sense. So probably sometime in May, wouldn't be though. Yeah, we could convert one of those budget meetings and use that. Get it on the table. So maybe for a council meeting, like the six third year or six or something. So is there public here? Sorry. I mean, like first meeting in May. I mean that would be up to y'all. I mean whether he wanted to have it before a regular meeting or a special meeting, you know. I just know a lot of the world goes on and regular meeting or a special meeting, you know. I just know a lot of the world goes on vacation and like, like, but may, so I may not be the best time. It never is. Good times. No, but I mean, that's... I wouldn't suggest the realm of moral life. That's what you're saying. Yeah, that's where I'm trying to go. Yeah, I would always suggest early May, if that's, you know, before school is out, all that stuff. School is not out to early June, so. I think my plan is, I know we need to rearrange our schedule, not to bring, the priorities are on the agenda for Monday. I would ask probably have toral to give me some time to kind of work through and create a draft action plan because I could get you something on Monday. But I think the work product would be higher quality if you gave me until that first meeting in March. You get the action items rolled together and kind of talk and we can look at the calendar and come up and we can propose that we all wouldn't want to end much already. Thanks. I'll go ahead and see what the priorities are there. For those six, okay, I think the mayor's point is good. That's a lot of stuff. I think there are four that are pretty active to that are still priorities. They've gotten around the hospital in the town center that are not burnt necessarily right now. But are there any of those six that you don't want to pursue? Is there anything I missed that needs to be in the place for addition to those six? Can I ask you a quick question here? This is more of an education question. I mean sometimes I feel like we come in here and these priorities and we go. Alex, now that we've come up with these priorities, here is this big lump of concrete that we just threw on, Alice's shoulders to come up with an action plan, just like you said there. I sometimes feel like, and this is just open for discussion. But, once we give him the priorities, we sort of... We're not as involved after that process. I guess my question would be, is how involved should the council be in driving down the details and action plan of... It feels like we put a lot of work back on Alex. And so, and maybe that's the way it should be. I'm just asking from your opinion, using your history, how much should we be involved in helping develop those action plans? I mean, it's a good question. My experience in the past has been a similar approach with comments from folks. If those comments are fairly accurate, then I think it's right for the manager to take the first pass at developing the action. And then for council to respond to that. And for council to particularly look at things that you all really need to own, those partner relationships, deciding on the tax rate. And there are a lot of things in there that can be more administrative. There are a lot of things that are policy related. For example, if you choose the one to go and invest in things that are not sewer dependent, that's, you know, it's up to Alex to give you the list, not a binding list, but a forthal provoking list. But it's really up to you as to what you want those investments to be. So I hear what you're saying. And reading your priority plans from the past, I think there's been appropriate balance. I think Alex is the initiator, but I think that's his role. And once he initiates those that follow your working past, you all would take an action and you need to take action and provide a direction and move it in a proper direction. So I think, even it's a good balance from what I've seen, unless Alex feels oververting, I think it's up to staff to help corround something like this and something like the conversations It puts some structure around it so that you're dealing with things around the edges to correct rather than having to develop the whole structure. How is that fair? Oh, yeah, I'm happy to do it and don't want to be I I don't know, you're not saying this, but don't ever want to Feel like I'm or have you feel like I am kind of taken over control of that, you know, we can certainly Once we come up with a good draft, right? we can you know have more discussion on it, right? I hate even subsequent meetings if you all want to kind of dive in the details there. Happy... We can have more discussion on it, right? It even subs quite a bit because if you all want to kind of dive in the details there, have happy to do it either way. No, I don't feel like we're... Hey, I'd like to build this wonderful thing. Go off and do this. It's your role. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure you're role. And I think that's the important thing for you to work role. Yeah. When you grow off and you sound up and then I let go again, you should be assaulted. You could pay you to work without. You could be a student. You can be a student. You have to have money for a time. You must work all the truth. Oh, but no, I mean, I sometimes get kind of, I mean I ask that just simply because I think sometimes for me with my normal job, you know, we don't typically go here, go to this thing. It's usually a collaboration, even if you're a team lead or a manager. It's very much a collaborative effort that goes back and forth. And... Is Moynihan doing a whole lot of helping in? Because that's his role. He's involved more than you think. Maybe he's not down on your level to help you. The system is even more more than you think. Yeah, yeah. But at the same token though, I mean, at the same token, the tears at the bank, I mean there's six tears between me and one hand. Here there's one tear between me and an out. and then that air and max and the balance. You just don't know, but you can do that. You make use of things. Sit, sit, sit. That's not what Aaron told me. She said that Alex is down here. She's up here. But she lets you make it. But he's up there. Oh, but I mean, sometimes it just feels like it's a bear. It's not as collaborative as I'm used to. and therefore a old person so that's as a whole I would say. The observation is what I'm not here for. It's you all are much more collaborative than any other camera account. I could probably could be able to sit. No you probably were eating. If we were it. If we were in the last couple of months. I would have learned more cross-person. Somebody just agreed with somebody. That's good. I think we disagree a lot. It's just that we disagree on a much more simple layer. I don't know that. Because most don't have. We're even when the casual Disagree a lot in public civil What's next? What are the next steps? I think it's really confirming kind of the priorities. And then, you know, we've heard a lot of input ideas. I made a lot of notes for action items. I'll come up with the action plan and kind of formally bring it back to the board. Really encourage them to miss any steps. So, unless you feel like we've missed something that you want to be able to take, then it appears this is your priorities and all you have to do about it. Well, the only thing I'm interested is the second agenda I was suggesting retreat process, this is my last planning session I would have recommended it if we had a debate or something. Earlier on, people told about a lot of people go off-site to create creativity and things like that. I would go to this, I would want to travel enough for work. I would be working all my week and just a money partner, and last one I should have. The Hawaii Beach. The Hawaii Beach? Yes, I am. They might have a package plan. Yeah. That's a good plan. That's a good plan. That's a good plan. That's a good plan. That's a good plan. That's a good plan. Alright, we've got a good job. Thanks for the upfront run. The first passage, almost done, is slow. I think this is done. Yeah. Lunch will be here in like 15 minutes if you want to wait for a box to go. Now I'll take it to the PD. It's up to you. Fantastic, dude. I'll just do that. Lunch will be here in like 15 minutes. If you want to wait for a box to go, now I'll take it to the PD. It's up to you. Hashtag, anything else on your mind? Did you ask that question? Did I ask a question? Well, is this all? Yeah. Well, if you look at it on my watch, there's no way this is all first-counting. but I didn't have my head jetted. I'm scouting on me this whole, that whole two-year budget thing, the first budget meeting was iced out and we kind of combined and I thought it was going to be really long when it was over just like that and this is going to be... It feels like... I think we've done this enough that we are... You know all my questions. Probably. You can probably squish it even one more reaction. No, it's good. It's good. Open up a lot of wonderful ideas. The fact that you put wonderful in there, I appreciate that. I'm just for you. Well, Kurt, thank you again for all the work you've done and your preparation for this week. Thank you. I appreciate it. I enjoy working with you. All right. Now, what can we learn from your experiences with other talents? What do we do differently? What do they do differently? How do we function more? We generate not just the retreat, but the genera. I guess we can call this a day if you guys know, since it works here. Aaron said there's food coming. There is. Panera is, it should be here by, by 1130, but like I said, I'm sure the police officers would eat that if you want to say But if we are a jerk, I just need a messenger germ, but if we're still talking then that's fine Yeah, I think they're one thing I