Good morning ladies and gentlemen welcome to the Charlotte County Board of County Commissioners Board Workshop for April 15th 2025. Let the record show all commissioners are present if you please rise and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation on doubt, individual with liberty and justice for all. Okay, Mr. Forrest any comments before we start with the US 17 area plan? Thank you, Mr. Chair Commissioners. Just four good topics to get you updated and briefed on those items on the agenda so So I won't hold this up anymore. Actually Sean is ready. Thanks Sean. Okay Mr. Colinan, you are recognized sir. Thank you. Good morning gentlemen. That is loud. Sean Colinan planning and zoning official. Today we are here to discuss the US 17 area plan. This area plan was put in place about 15 or so years ago now and it is starting to show some signs of life. development entities are interested in doing some projects out there. So we wanted to get this in front of you ahead of time. This is very similar to the situations on Bernstor Road. So we wanted to update you because most of you probably have never seen nor heard of the US 17 area plan. This was something that was done as I said many years ago. So it was done between 2009, 2010 timeframe. This is the pretty cover page. This is the area plan that was studied. So it goes all the way to the other side of 75, essentially down to the city of Punagorda limits, including some of these older, significantly older areas like Salana, Cleveland, as well as some of these agricultural, completely vacant agricultural lands. This in red is what's called the rural service area overlay district, just rules off the tongue. And the majority of the policies and requirements were situated to hear because, as you can see, this is a large on-developed track or areas of land compared to the already previously platted and zoned and entitled areas. So after our Bernstor road discussion, we wanted to kind of follow a similar pattern of what you folks had requested over the many discussions we had there So I'm starting off with this map just to show you a number of the areas that you had questions about such as The requirements for flowways greenways the existing preservation areas and resource conservation areas So you can see how this this all ties into the overall picture of the East and Southern portions of Charlotte County. So the intent of the study was to gather the deep knowledge among the community's diverse resources to create a plan that represents a vision for the future and a plan that could be implemented. I was intended to properly guide future growth in the area and a process better suited to provide a necessary infrastructure as well as preserving the rural nature of the area. And this is from the plan and from the policies because this truly was an instance of long-range planning to prep for the future. So similar to Bernstor, this was a public-private partnership. Funding was shared between the county and private sector. Again, the county approximately $50,000 and private approximately $200,000. They were over 40 stakeholder meetings, including canvassing by staff door to door. J. Shows regaled me with tales of knocking on people's doors to get their input on this study. As you can see, it was quite a diverse public private partnership. You've got folks, obviously our commissioners, you've got folks from the city of Ponte Gorda, you've got folks from Desoto County, the MPOs, regional planning councils, you've got residents and business owners, people that have been here in the community forever, if you will. the Queens Page Kriegle. We also included homeowners associations, the environmental organizations. So we really tried to, similar to the Bernstor Road, a lot of these people are the same people. We really tried to get the outreach and the history of the area. So when we created the area plan, again, one of the main focuses was creating the rural settlement area overlay district, which encompasses 4,900 total acres. That is that red area. Study area, as you saw, was much larger or slightly larger than the burnt store area plan. Study area. With similar in scale, created numerous comprehensive plan policies and requirements, but this one was different in that we did not create or place on specific future land use map designations. We created a the overlay and the specific criteria for the area, but we didn't create future land use map designations like we did with burnt store, with the burnt store limited in burnt store residential. So this, I'm going into a map series now. So this is what the future land use map designation is. So a lot of it is still agriculture. That was the intent. A lot of these will never be non-agricultural or low density residential because a lot of the areas have already been platted out, a lot of even the acreage has been platted out. So the focus of this and honestly this just went under conservation easement within the past, I believe this one, yeah, within the past couple of months, the riles branch extension. Here is the zoning map. And even though it appears this is not zone, these are hash marks. This is residential, states five. This is the Washington Loop Area and Prairie Creek Preserve Area. But as you can see, as you know, we purchased a lot of that for environmentally sensitive and conservation. This is the area plan or the service area delineation. So as you can see, one of the main focuses, again, was to bring in this area into the urban service area. We never intended to bring in any of these areas into the urban service area, but we did intend and put on a lot of the restrictions for the rural settlement area overlaid district. Here is the framework. Again most of it is still agricultural and rural and then the existing platted and somewhat developed areas retain their existing frameworks or existing zoning their existing future land use map designations. So what are the entitlements out there? Again, besides the standard areas that were already plotted, future land use, the focus again was on the rural settlement area overlay district. So that area has a maximum density of 6,000 dwelling units. The base density is one dwelling unit per 10 acres or 490 dwelling units. The intensity for commercial uses are limited to a maximum of 500,000 square feet, 1 million square feet of regional economic development uses, and the development area maximum is 2,450 acres. I like round number, so the area is about 5,000 acres and you can develop about 2,500 of it. Everything else has to be in conservation or preservation. So just a comparison between 17 and Bernstor Road down on the Bernstor area plan we looked at both the existing entitlements from the previously platted lots as well as the previously platted commercial as well as the areas that were studied. So Bernstor has a maximum density based on flume designations of just over 61,000 units and if you add in again the existing platted and entitled areas plus the rural settlement area overlay district you're looking at about 34,000 units for the US settlement area. Looking at the maximum intensity based on the flume designations, down in burnt store, you've got 8.2 million square feet. There is significantly more commercial, but again, that is due to the fact that, you fact that a lot of the area already had commercial entitlements throughout it and that's including those commercial entitlements based on a 1.0 floor area ratio and the acreage of the parcels. So there again, in the US 17 plan there's just shy of 30 million square feet of commercial available, bit over 12 million square feet of light industrial, and 1.6 of general industrial, plus with the rural sedimentary overlay district, that's where, as I say, to be 400, 500,000 square feet of commercial and one million square feet of regional economic development So that just like Bernstorre Ruther are Oh, you're right. Yeah, it's okay On slide 13 you talk about maximum maximum density 6,000 dwelling units and base densities one dwelling unit per 10 acres then on the next slide You go to the US 17 area plan and it says 28,000 44 units plus 5,500 10 units. Can you explain that again to me? Yes sir. What is maximum density yet on the next slide the entitlement show more? Understand the confusion. So this maximum density as I said is for the rural settlement area overlay district. That area in red, that's outlined in red. The maximum entitlements for the study area include all of these RE5s, RE, you know, residential single family 3.5s. We actually had GIS and our staff and Jay went through and calculated every unit that was there, every maximum under the future land use that could potentially be there to get those total numbers that you're seeing there of the 28,000 units. Okay, so those would be entitlement rights that are already vested with the existing property. Correct. Without the board making any decisions. Correct. So they have by right. Right. Compare that to in the Bernstor area plan. Bernstor villages, Bernstor lakes, Bernstor isles, those areas that already were platted, already have their densities, already have their entitlements. That is where the 28,000 units here comes from is those areas that were already entitled throughout the study area. Okay, Commissioner Constance, you recognize? Okay, so figures. My phone's, thank you. So, does the 5510 relate to the 6,000? Yes, yes. Okay, so while the, ideally or maxim's 6,000. When you really look at it, it's 55, 10. And that's what that's speaking to. Not the... Well, yes, that is correct. Well, it's 6,000 in this red area is the maximum entitlements in this red box here of the rural settlement area overlay district. But then it says 5510 from the rural settlement overlay area. That's what he's talking about. I see, yes, I'm going to have to, I need to get more information on that. I see that maybe. I like it. Okay. I apologize. That's okay. Can you go to the, the rural, the urban service, rural service area? So I mean, I would think you want things to be contiguous, and then you bump up against the rural service area, and now you're going to create sprawl. Not necessarily, again, and the rural settlement area overlay district, again, just rolls off the tongue. The reason why it's a settlement area is because it was due to having to have a settlement agreement and working with DCA back in the 2009-2010 time frame when we did this plan. The intent was to, you know, this area is along US 17. So major four-lane road, the capacity is very large on it. and are, and further in the slides, I'll mention, we are doing counts on that. Currently, there may be some congestion. We've heard down where it ties into 75 and Piper Road, but up here there is significant amounts of capacity. So we know that this area would be developing right to the north, and I'll get into that bit later is DeSoto with some pretty large developments as well as well as this is an area where infrastructure could come from either the south or the north So this was an area that we wanted to get ahead of again similar to the burnt store area plan where we know it's gonna be Developed and if we can get ahead of, then we don't run into the same amount of division. We know that portable water is definitely available. I don't know about sewer, but it looks like you have a phone to frame behind you here. Jason, there's a car for 90 in base dancing. Oh, that's right. The extra, the missing 490, that's the base dancing that's already on it. So they would have to bring in 5510. Got it. Thank you very much. Try to anticipate most of the questions but just can never catch them all. Well Jay couldn't get to the aisle so she said Ben to tell you I appreciate that. Yeah that's a teamwork right here. That's right. So again we wanted to just like the large acreage down in Bernstore Road that eventually will develop and is now we wanted to again get ahead of that development. Okay, so I mean we have to be wearing lots of hats when we look at these things because you can't just look at an area and say sure it's got access to a four lane highway, you know, and direct access to the to 75 and I get it because that's a pipeline going up there so it's all logical. But let's get back to the water and specifically the sewer. If we don't- I will be getting into that and we update and we update Watson here as well and he's got a brief presentation but yes we know that a lot of the questions in this area as was evidenced by the tag development that went through very recently is water and sewer so yes if I can proceed I'd have a bunch of stuff and we have Dave he is sure okay he'll be coming on down. Commissioner Constance you mentioned we mentioned we're wearing a lot of hats. So today is our chance to wear our plan or hat as a board. Go ahead, Sean. All right, so moving on, so the additional requirements, again, the minimum of 50% of the settlement area has to be open space. We also have the flowways and greenway requirements with a 500 with minimum preservation area as well as wildlife crossings. So FDOTs installed two of them along the corridor. Unfortunately, those two are up into Soto County. We do have a number of box culverts here which do tie in with flowways and greenways to down here, away from the rural sedimentary overlay district. I personally went out and looked at these two here. This one up here is enormous. I would say that's and John's here I would say I could probably walk through that culvert and this one down here is much smaller but it was very dry So animals would be utilizing it currently. This plan came into effect after US 17 was already widened. 17 was widened between about 04 and 08. Looking at the historical aerials and I pulled up everything so we can look at those if you'd like to see that history. And so we will be working with when these developments come in that we have had talked to them, and maybe they can do a directional bore and put in some culverts for animal crossings and things like that. So we will be working with them. And these are the areas that have to have the 500 foot in with preservation areas around those green ways and flow ways. Some of them, such as this creek, are very large. This creek is a bit smaller, but it still has to have that 500 foot width of preservation. So this one again is a little bit different. We required phasings of developments in here. The chart on the next slide sets the minimums for the commercial or regional economic development square footage required for the number of dwelling units in vice versa. The phasing is linked to the issuance of certificates of occupancy. So for the first 500 dwelling units, they need to have 10,000 square feet of commercial. Once they get up to 1,000 dwelling units, 35,000 square feet, 2,000 dwelling units, 100,000 square feet 2,000 dwelling units 100,000 square feet and then for every extra 1,000 dwelling units They you have to add an extra 50,000 square feet. So we were trying to Get similar to what if you will Babcock is doing in that you get some houses going then you put in some small pieces of Commercial to serve those and you keep that going. Again this is different from how the Bernstur area plan was created and that was something that was worked out with the communities. Commissioner Constance just real quick I mean doesn't say commercial on here so was this extracted from the plan because all it says is square feet cumulative where you're you're assuming, I know it is what it is, but it doesn't say it on there. This is directly from the comprehensive plan, the land use guide. So this is the language just before the slide. And I can show you that if you'd like, that specifically sets the, sets forth the minimum commercial or regional economic development square footage. Thank you. It was just the, the chart was, you abstracted the chart. Yeah. So there's a number of good things about this area. It's no coastal high hazard areas in the rural settlement area, overlay district. There's minimal scrub j impacts. There are some areas of scrub J, but because the whole area has 50% preservation that will be able to be mitigated and addressed. And there, as I stated before, there is high roadway capacity. And currently public works is deploying counters, the counter systems to update the trip numbers. So here's the map where you can see the coastal high hazard areas or lack thereof here within the rural settlement area overlay district. This is the scrub j permanent boundary, so there are some scrub j areas in here. But again, a small portion of the overall settlement area. But there are a number of barriers to development of this area, the biggest being the lack of availability of water and sewer to support the development. So the applicant has been working with the SODO, CCU and the receiver for the certified utility provider to provide the services. CCU is currently doing their plant expansion from six to nine MGD slated for completion January of 27. Additionally, usages may require other improvements sooner. They are, and the second biggest thing is lack of available density. One of the policies and requirements is that the density must come from areas removed from the urban service area. And to date since the implementation of the plan, no density has been certified from those areas. So those areas would be here, the Northwest Port Charlotte area, the Northern portion of Gulf Cove, Harbor Heights areas, and some of these other areas that were not platted but have density. Excuse me and to date none of those areas since the implementation of this plan have had any of their density severed off so right now there is no density to pull. I have a question regarding this slide in the utilities. While I understand that the applicant may be working with the Soto County for wastewater. What actually is the plan because when another applicant came before us there really wasn't a plan. They actually had a acquire property there in the infancy. So what is the plan? We will be getting into that sir. Okay. Yep. Stay tuned. Okay. Yeah, there are a number of things going on in DeSoto that I have a few slides for as well that I'll touch upon and then turn it over to Dave. Okay. So with the certified water and this map the same for the sewer, this is the receiver. It is sunriver utilities. They may have changed names. That was up. I was question, this is the receiver. It is sunriver utilities They may have changed names that was up that was question. This is the Charlotte County utilities area. This is shell Creek Park and this is the city of Punnigorda's certified service area That's just sewer that's just so both of them so there's two maps, but the certification areas This map is the portable water suppliers. Okay, and then this is a sewer They're the same map just the title was changed because they have the same certificate area So what's currently occurring? We do have an application and a couple of them in house for plan amendments to expand where the density can be transferred from this is privately initiated as Well as to potentially increase the entitlements in the area plan as well as conducting traffic counts So now I want to get into what the Soto County is doing and as I was reviewing this I realize I may have double counted a development so there may be less this, but I'll go with what I have. Currently, DeSoto County has 4,417 units being proposed. I just took the ones east of the river that access through US 17. They're all in various stages of entitlement. DeSoto County has the benefit that they don't have. Density transfers. They can waive their, what I've referred to as the magic zoning wand So this is a map that we received from the Soto County So you can see again, I just focus on these looking at it because these two were separated and had a Separate Title I think I may have double counted so I just realized that this morning, so I apologize for that. Hudson Ranch just got approved within the past six months. Harbor landing, which is these two, those. And I think that's where, since I both have 920, I miss that. The Liverpool Plan Unit Development 371, let us say townhomes 208 and Bridalwood 857. So in terms of what utilities are available in this general area and from the Charlotte County border to the top of the Walmart Distribution Center is roughly half a mile. There is water and sewer lines and infrastructure to about here, both water and sewer from DeSoto County. So again, these are all developments. I'm sorry, where did you show that on the map? Where did you say it was? Right here. Okay, I don't see the map. And so again, they're all in various stages of development. Some of them are just planning for the future and getting the entitlements put on. I spoke to the one of the representatives of the Hudson Ranch development. He said that you know, even there's some army core issues that they're going to have to deal with. that we were talking three, four, maybe even five years down the line before shovel goes in the ground. But again, similar to what the same situation here in the rural sedimentary overlay district, it takes a long time to get entitlements and get things moving before shovels go in the ground. So many of these, these are not imminent, such as they're not breaking ground today. But the, I believe, the Liverpool one the Liverpool one is currently advertising for a CDD to be placed onto the property through to Sodo County, similar to the community development districts that you folks approved throughout Charlotte County. So we've also spoken with Metro Forecasting Models. So the population projections for the general, the entire study area without the utilities being run is about 10 to 15 units per year. With utilities available, Metro sees a similar growth pattern to Bernstore Road. General, what we generally looked at with them was starting 2030 as a starting point date, you know, you need to get entitlements, you need to get the infrastructure and you need to get all those things done before. You actually start building the infrastructure in the houses. And here, right now it is next to nothing, but then we also looked at, we had them look at three scenarios, a low medium and high. So in 2030 on the low end, you may be looking at 572 on the medium, or excuse me, 285 on the medium, 253. And on the high 285, there may be a typo here, because they have the low and the high at the same number. Going on to 2035, when you're really starting to get hot and heavy similar to how burnt store we're in about year 4 or 5 of them going, The low scenario was 572 per year, the medium, 798 per year, and a high scenario, 1095 per year. That may be a bit aggressive even, but even if we go with the low scenario, we could be looking at, you know, between five to 700 units per year, potentially in that area. So with that, I know you've got a lot of water and utility questions. I'm going to request Mr. Watson come on down. Oh, sorry. Sorry, Mr. Chair. Real quick, just bottom category NC demand. What is that? Which one? In the on the left, the first set of categories, NC demand? I believe that is neighborhood commercial demand. So you've got commercial, which is, you know, your publics, your, everything, essential services, which would be triggers for things like a fire station, police substation, things like that, and then neighborhood commercial, those are the smaller ones, kind of being the store type of thing. Okay, thank you. Before we go to Mr. Watson on slide 26, two questions on currently occurring things. Plan amendment to expand where density can be transferred from. What does that mean? So again, right now they have to find density in these areas in hot pink and green. No density has been certified from those that meet the requirements since the plan has been put into place. So they're looking to expand to so that they could pull density from some of these old subdivisions. And again, I pulled up some of these things so that you could because density transfer was supposed to be like for like correct and those were all it can be so they could pull from these subdivisions over here if the if the amendments approved so remember we've got all these bad boys out here that a significant amount have been certified they They can't go into coastal high hazard areas. They can't go into the flood zone areas. So they're looking to expand it to be able to utilize other density. So you can either do like for like, meaning no coastal high, you could put coastal high hazard into here. Obviously, that's significantly more costly but you can't say density from here, move it to coastal high hazard. You can move away from the coast, so they're just looking to open up the pool of where they can purchase density from. So without a change, what would they have to do to get their density? They would be limited, in other words, is not enough density to bring in for the entitlements they're looking to get. Correct. Because none of it has been certified off of these areas and it's implementation of the plan. The next part of that slide is increasing entitlements in the area plan. What does that mean? So as I said, the rural settlement area, all-related district is 6,000 units within this area. They are looking to increase that to up to 8,000 units. And again, this will come before you as legislative items. I had even hesitated to put them in, but wanted full transparency that there are things in house. and that's why we're trying to give you this presentation ahead of time so you have a background since none of you were we're sitting here when this was put into place. So the rural settlement area is the one that's looking to increase entitlements. Correct. That's specific area only. Another 2000 units. Correct. The other areas here, so like tag lakeside, it's within the study area, but it's not under the auspices of the rural sediment area overlay district allowances. So that's why they didn't, you know, that's why they were going through separately. This area requires a master development plan. It requires showing interconnectivity between the subdivisions. So you don't get subdivision A, subdivision B, subdivision C. You've got to get out to the main road to go to any of them. This is master planning it in the area similar to, say, a west port or a bathcock or something like that. So you have the interconnectivity and also the required commercial and industrial. So you can kind of create an area where you have more internal capture and less trip generation. Thank you. Less trip generation is less vehicle miles travel. If you put in some industrial, forgot that's not GIS. If you put in some industrial which is required in there, some commercial, you could theoretically live work and play in this area. If there's no further questions for Sean, we'll bring Mr. Watson up. Okay, we'll bring Charlotte County Utilities. In 2024, I guess it was, we had the development group approach us about the availability of sewer and water in this area. So our first inclination was the board had kind of given us a little bit of direction regarding our peace river allocation back about a year ago that they weren't interested in that time at utilizing that allocation for this area. So that's what we advised the developers. They did ask us about sewer availability. We indicated the first part of that would be is it engineering feasible to get sewer. We were talking specifically about boring the river and tying into our current system in the deep creek area. The developers requested to go ahead and do some modeling on that issue. The modeling was completed. What I've got for you today is just kind of a summary of the model. It does not include any cost associated with it, but it does talk about feasibility of connection with two different alternatives to the Eastport system. So what you've got here is just showing the general area that was requested. The colored area again is that area that Sean had just talked about with the 6,000 or so units. The general numbers in this are in the ballpark of about a million gallons a day, both wood and waste wood, they vary a little bit. But the connection feasibility here would be going under the river and tying in basically somewhere around sandhill and getting into our system from there. So this first area this is the area again in discussion that the the development group had requested us look at. So again, going across the river right around Sandhill and tying in somewhere in that general area, this was the first alternative looked at, which would be going all the way down Sandhill and then tying into our current force main system, potential for up sizing of lift stations, force mains, everything along those lines. Mr. Constance, you recognize. Just a point of order. Do we have these slides? No. No. Why do I have these slides? I was not planning on talking today. This was actually going to be presented at our May 22nd update. So this was a just in case you guys wanted to talk silver and water. OK. So now it needs to be attached. Yes. OK. and Judith Housen. Yeah, commissioners, I had a late conversation with staff after reading the plan that was attached and there was a section in there on utilities and concurrency. And I said be prepared to talk deeply. So I think that's one of the reasons we have the attachment. Thank you. So this was the first alternative route that was discussed. After that, the consultant actually came up with the second alternative route that would bypass all of our lift stations, more force main to be installed, but would not have significant impact at all on our system. Again, we did not talk numbers. This was presented to the development group, and they can put the numbers to it, but it had all the linear footages, sizes, things like that that would be needed for a connection from the sewer side. And that's pretty much where we are as far as the sewer side goes. Again, the water side, I did reach out to Peace River. They indicated that DeSoto County has purchased one MGD of the 18 that was available that potentially could be used for this development from the DeSoto side if they so choose to serve them as far as the water goes. So as Sean had indicated, as Sean had indicated, the DeSoto side, they do have that 1MGD. We were not planning to service them through our allocation with Peace River at this time. You know, the Peace River line does run along 17 down in that area. Depending on future, there are other options as far as serviceability for water if the board so choose to go that route. Any questions Mr. Watson? Okay. I have Commissioner Dory we try to hit the button. I see your finger moving. I've got you. You're getting nice. Getting to that was a little bit different. Dave I've gone through that report that was done. Jones Edmond I agree with this other alternative that it's going through deep grit. I mean, it puts too much stress in the future on that system. So an independent line like this makes sense. My question really is along the lines of, if you look at the metro projections on growth out here in the 17 area, when do we, we have the six to nine M of the east port right now. When, when do they converge? I mean, that's the problem. Is this, is, with this area eventually take up capacity you were planning on for, for basically the original east port service area and a quick quicker, that's what I'm trying to get to. And then how do we, that into whatever we're looking at as setting policy of looking at this area, as far as the cost to expand the plant quicker from nine to 12? So I asked the question to Jones Edmunds regarding the plant expansion. Their indication at least preliminarily was that with this development is going to be spread out over a five to ten year period realistically there would not be any immediate significant impact by absorbing them. They would just be part of the overall expansion of the mid- county area. Is it ultimately going to move the time frame up? Yes, but at this point what that move up would be we don't know. Too early to quantify it, but I think it's something has to be on our radar, gentlemen, that plant will go to nine to twelve possibly quicker. Yes, that's what I'm trying to get to. On water, very interesting, a different story with water, water supply. For those who don't understand it right now, the peaceover of Water Authority is in an expansion project right now, increasing the plant capacity by 24MGD. Allocation is like 18MGD, and it's been distributed to all the members at this point. There's no excess amount. No. It's all used up. So, to SOTO, one MGD, I don't think takes care of this area permanently. So I think that becomes another very important thing to find out is what are the plans for the Water Authority for an additional expansion project? And when's that going to take place? I'm thinking of the Brackish Water, which is another 8MGD. But I don't think that's even on the, they're going to have discussions about that. But I don't think that starts until 2030 something, Mr. Chairman. So I think we need to wrap our arms around that. I think it might be, I just thought about. It might be appropriate as chair of the Water Authority now that you might at some point in the near future, a discussion of this particular area to take place so that the soda and charlie can discuss that in a meeting. Find out what their plans are for that water. Yeah, I don't see anybody in the queue so I'll jump in. So a couple of things. First of all, the board has not decided on what entitlements are actually going to occur here. Number one, to iron out that number. There's been a lot of discussion about who pays for all of this. Are the connection fees enough to cover these types of costs or do we enter into a new kind of developer agreement where the cost share is a different formula from what we've been using and is that statutorily correct. So those are conversations that obviously need to happen. And when I look at the original area plan, I focused on page 35. I spoke to staff about this the other day on utility availability, infrastructure, and really concurrency. It goes beyond water and sewer. We talk about schools. There are some issues now that are occurring where there's conversations with school concurrency. So I mean, there's a whole host of things that need to be taken into consideration. And I would not want to give any guidance or assurances for me today. This is going to require not just one board workshop, but multiple conversations about how we want to plan for the future for this area 20, 30, 50 years out because I look at this as kind of getting a second bite of the apple which we didn't have on Bernst Stort Road. You know, now that we're all seated, we understand what the county's been going through. This is our chance now to take everything we've learned for our time on the board and apply it to the decision on what this corridor is going to look like in the future in terms of density, how we're going to handle infrastructure. You know, you've touched on the issues we've had with our plan expansion and the calculations that we're used for that. You know, this throws a monkey wrench in it. We're going to have to look at what of the unintended consequences of this because my assumption is if the developer is going to pay for this, they're going to want to make sure they're assured that capacity. They're going to either pay for it through some agreement because they're not going to build out a project and then be told, oh, by the way, we ran out of capacity. You've got no sewer, you know, they're gonna wanna firm that up and make sure that they have the capacity secure and that's gonna take it off the table for everybody else that we were planning to serve. So, you know, those are just some of my initial thoughts, Commissioner Dory. Yeah, just to continue with that topic, I see though that there is an engineering solution at least for wastewater. You know, I see that there's a pathways to whatever the units are, whatever the entitlements are eventually, which you're right. There's going to be a lot of discussion about that, how we get to whatever that number is. But water, I just don't see the same clear pathway. That's all I'm trying to communicate this morning, is that in a discussion with DeSoto County, as soon as possible, find out, obviously they're having conversations. The applicants are having conversations with DeSoto, that I just would like to understand how they think they're going to be able to supply through the authority this quarter, this area. I just curious, in concept, not the actual numbers, because we don't know what those are yet, but whatever you think is appropriate, as far as the water authority is concerned, but I think the sooner the better we find out what's being planned. I believe your correct disorder does not have the allocation for themselves and to serve this, and they're absolutely right. Yeah, interesting question. Commissioner Constance, you're in the queue. Thank you. Yeah, to that point, I mean, so Sarasota has taken up the lion share of this latest expansion. And so who's coming, let's say, to Soto needs one or two more of the eight. Well, I don't know that anybody else is going to be chomping at the other six or seven that has to come on the timeline. So that's an excellent point. It may hold everything up because they can green light the zoning, but they can say, but we're not gonna be able to issue you any permits unless you guys wanna pay for this major project or also with the suicide side of it pay for the entire pipeline and all of the infrastructure just the way they did at Tucker's grade above and beyond connection fees. I don't you know we've the way we've always looked at it I think is you know if you've got impact fees well you pay those but then they get taken off based on the roadway improvements and things like that. I think we need to be having a different calculus here. So thank you. Yeah. And I guess another question, nobody else is in the queue, so I'll jump in again. That density that we talked about in a plan amendment, that would apply, if the change was to occur, that would apply for every applicant that comes in they will now have a different density pool Unless it's targeted just for one applicant That would be correct. I would be a large-scale plan amendment amending the comprehensive plan for the rural settlement area over district to expand where the density could be acquired and transferred from and I don't know what the unintended consequences of opening up a new density pool does in the whole scheme of things. I really don't at this point. Right now everybody can, as long as the not only money colors match as I like to, the numbers and the colors match, they can pull from any density that allows for it. This is the area where it is, similar to how West County or Minnesota key, there are specific Minnesota key, you can only, if you increase density, you have to pull from Minnesota key density, getting nothing's been certified, West County is one way, only there are other restrictions, but right now, tag lakeside, if their areas that don't have, they could pull from that rural area but this project can't because it was specifically put in that that density could only come from those specific areas. So this would be if... When it moves forward, if approved by you because obviously that would be a change that you folks would need to approve, it would make it consistent with what other people are currently allowed to approve. It would make it consistent with what other people are currently allowed to do. Okay. Any other comments on this item? Okay. Thank you. Just thank you to Sean and thank you to Dave and thank you for asking him to be ready because that was important information. Thank you Okay next Well, wait a minute I before Staff leaves on that item Yeah, so we asked a bunch of questions. You know, my feeling was on this, I'm not prepared to move on any of this right now with everything we're dealing with. There's a lot of questions. Yeah, I know, I know. But there was a lot of, but there was really other than giving us information. I just didn't want you to leave unfulfilled without any type of comment on at least what I'm looking for. So I just want to make sure you've heard some of the comments. You've got enough to. Oh, yes, sir. And quite honestly, every time I leave these chambers after discussions with you folks, I am fulfilled. But yes, I'm sure the applicants and some of the potential developers are watching and listening to this discussion so they are knowing. And again, we know similar to Bernstor Road Area. There's going to probably be a number of workshops coming forward. That's why we were trying to get as much of the stuff up front because, yeah, there's stuff moving through the pipeline Okay, well, I just want to make sure staff is fulfilled. I am fully fulfilled, sir. I'm having a list with pull that clip. I don't want that clip. I think his evaluation's coming up. Okay. I have a standing meeting with HR, thank you. Thank you. Hang on, Trump. Commissioner Dordor, you recognize me. Yeah, just one final comment. you know, sitting here reflecting on looking at the area and mapping all that stuff and what we're talking about as far as infrastructure. You know, just brought me back to the days I used to do developments of regional impact. And so I kind of gone through this thing, I've showed it with others that I kind of look at the various elements the same way, transportation, utilities, so forth and so on. So just for the sake of the applicant, I'm still putting that kind of hat on to make sure we have, we have, we are meeting concurrency. And it's some challenging things. Usually it's always, you know, the old days, it was always just transportation. That was the one that really got regional, it was regionally significant. This one, look what we're talking about, utilities, time and cooperative effort with the Soto County is going to be critical for this this area and it's regionally It's region. Yeah, it really makes sense So that's why I'm kind of we have we have the ability The entity is the piece of a Minnesota regional water supply authority as far as the water element of this thing is concerned You being chairman this year However, you feel is appropriate the timing wise to get that on that agenda, I'll get with Mr. Anderson, the executive director. Maybe you can find out from him and Doug Manson, some of these critical things, because I think it's for the sake of the applicants to understand where they really sit relative to water supply. Like I said, wastewater I've seen the study, it looks like there's an engineering solution, it just takes a lot of money to make it happen. But it can't look like it can be done if they secure the permits. Water, I just don't see it. Yeah. the total number that we, you know, not a moving target. You know, we need to have something more solid. It's true. Yeah, I agree. Except for the fact, maybe you can get with the executive director. It sounds like the applicants have approached the Soto County. That's what was on one of the slides. Yes, sir. So, Charlotte County getting up to speed as to what's going on, I think makes sense. Because heard was a million gallons a day Is that correct Dave that get that number correct? You the additional allocation of the 18 is one MGD. Yeah So yes, as hard utilities go one and sewer side is slightly below a million gallons a day the water size is slightly above a million gallons a day. So a million, I'm just going to say a million. That's a good number. Okay. Hang on a second. So, that's what that is going to require on the southern end of the soda. That's what the developer group had given us as a personal first. And the fact of the matter is that if the soda is asking for an extra million gallons in the new expansion, they're already over their allocation. So they're like, they maybe they have. In fact, the fact of the matter is that if the soda is asking for an extra million gallons in the new expansion, they're already over their allocation. So they're like, they maybe they have 750 a day that they can give away. So they're not going to be able to meet that need, nor any future growth for the county. I mean, they already take more than they're allocated. think they're allocated 0.5 or 0.25 or something, and they're taking at least 100,000 or more per day there in that buffer zone, and we're kind of letting them slide because they're kind of constrained. But the math doesn't even work on the outset. So that's troubling. I mean, obviously not all those homes get built at one time, but you know, you can't look. You don't have a crystal ball. So I can have a conversation with Mr. Anderson. That's really what I was. OK, yeah, I can do that. I have Commissioner Trux and Jeanette Nolme. Jeanette, did you want to go ahead and go? No, that's all right. You can go. OK. I didn't know if he had a point here that he needed to make. So the question I have is we're talking about water allocation and the need there. Is there a point here that he needed to make. So the question I have is we're talking about water allocation and the need there. Is there numbers, Dave, are there numbers based upon the 6,000 cap right now? It was based on the all the development area that I showed in that one slide. It's primarily the 6,000 acre ranch on the east side of 17. but there are a couple of parcels on the west side of 17 that were included in that as well. That would be ultimately tied into their system. Okay. I think TAG was actually excluded if I recall correctly. That's my concern is we need to talk total numbers here. And the big picture isn't just this, this settlement area, it's the entire area. So there's no way the sodas got enough water to deal with this. And then they would have no expansion anywhere else in their county. I think I'm hearing the number needs to go up to like 1.1, 1.2. I just think we need to make sure we get the full picture of the entire demand area. And yes, because that's going to really affect decision making processes down the road. You know. This slide is what we were talking about. As you can see, the metadow view is the large development group, but then there are a couple of other options on the west side of 17 as well. That also includes the current area for no Charlotte water that served those 50 or so customers and the development that's associated with that. Yeah, I would just make sure that you confirm with the applicant the number, because if it is less, if it is more, I want to know. If I'm going to do an ask to the authority, if it's one one, I want to know it's one one. Well, I'll have a more complete presentation for the May 22nd, I can include those numbers. They were part of the demoneling. Okay. I have Commissioner Constance. This real quick. I know it's not our purview but I really would love to understand DeSoto's projections for their county for that area for the southern portion on Kings Highway You know How are they what metrics are they using and how are they figuring on what they're going to allow since they can wave their magic wand? What are, you know, what are their needs going to be over what time? And I don't think they've engaged metro forecasting. I don't know if they have a consultant. But, you know, I hate flying blind. And that line, that is imaginary, you know, that county line, that's imaginary. We're going to deal with having to serve or make sure that people are properly served on both sides of the line and we need more information. So this is all kind of nebulous right now for me. I think we, you know, when we did the allocation recently, we all went through some type of study or methodology to determine what we need for the future. But I think it's every seven years we go through the reallocation process. Oh, no, every year for a seven year look. Yeah, for seven year look. So this is like an ongoing thing. So there's going to be an opportunity when these things arise that they can look at their allocation and make the adjustments. So I mean, it's not like they're, it's etched in stone that what they have today, that's it. It's something that's always looked at by the authority I had a hector well, I don't want to skip over had Jeanette than Hector than Commissioner Dordy I really was gonna say what you all have just said I remember under the master of water supply contract that the water authority does all of the Projections and allocations for DeSoto so I think the key is is to use that map and then this slide 28 to make sure that the Water Authority knows all of these on their radar. Okay, thank you. Mr. Flores. Ditto. I had a preliminary conversation with DeSoto Administrator yesterday, late Mandy Heinz and let her know that this was on the agenda. And same thing, you all just said. Reminder, we've got our Babcock Wells project running parallel, you know, with the plant expansion. So there's options on the table. And you just said it every year, we all kind of review, reset our water projections. There's always pool, family pool water, and within the water authority, I think Commissioner Dordi, you look for more certainty of the commitments, whether it's 20. Permanent supply. Right, whether it's 20, 30, 20, 40 out there. But those options are on table. So I think it'll be key to just start those discussions and then as we do our annual projections, you know, based on that growth as it actually happens. commission. Thank. Commissioner Dory. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dave, that map shows the independent line coming for always more of the force meeting. I think they showed the option of a 20 inch or 24 inch, but they've looked at a larger service area than just this overlay district, I believe. They had the ability to take on future growth, I believe, in this report. Yes. The numbers, again, I don't have them right now. From the wastewater side was I'm saying, I think they accounted for more than just this area. More, more main size. Yeah. I mean, what you can see here, I mean, that one square right in the middle, I believe, that's the tag area that was cut out but outside of that, you know, it is more than just their development. Thank you. So Sean and the rest of staff if you were fulfilled before, I'm glad I brought you back to give you more. Well, it reminded me and been reminding me of a few things as well. Again, as I said, like at the beginning and that's why we chose 2030 with Metro Forecasting as a starting point for projections. This is in its infancy. Again, we want to get ahead of you, so the projects didn't start rolling before you and you're approving things and then neighbors and people are coming out and for us in opposition, similar to what happened with Burnt Store. We wanted to get ahead of it and get in front of you with some of these. There are some other issues that I apologize for not bringing this up sooner. We can't do anything more restrictive, if you recall. We can't change this to make things more restrictive currently until 2026. There is currently pending legislation extending that to 2027. And as I frequently say, there is no death of natural disasters that may extend these timeframes even longer. So that doesn't preclude an applicant from proposing something more restrictive. And again, this is in its infancy. We still, we have, they have entitlements, they have the, you know, maximum of 6,000 units, but they also have to currently get it from those areas where I showed on the map. So there, we do have discussion points and this is, this is the starting point. There's probably going to be lots of discussions and lots of other agreements moving forward. But again, the reason we didn't start the projections until 2030 is because realistically, you're probably not going to see a shovel going into the ground before probably 2030. So I just wanted to make that clear that this is different from Burnt Store where the ball was already rolling. The ball is just starting to roll now, which is why we're bringing you folks up to speed on that. But nothing right now prohibits the board from denying a plan amendment or increasing entitlements. Well, they would not have to do a plan amendment. They would be doing a PD rezoning. That's one of the... Well, no, to expand the density. Oh, that is correct. Yeah, right. That is from that and we're not prohibited from denying entitlement, increased entitlements. That is absolutely correct. Yeah, so we're not taking away anything. Commissioner Constance, you recognize. Thank you. Sean, as I'm looking through the plan, getting pages 35, 36, 37, you know, looking at just, you know, landscape of the corridors. There's a Cleveland Main Street redevelopment plan along Cleveland Avenue. There's a Salana Conceptual Redevelopment Plan. I mean, that Salana thing is turned into a big storage area. So I guess my question is, what's the point of creating these? It's not binding, right? I mean you're you're these are this is just sort of a hope That it's gonna look this nice or that these things are gonna occur What was done in the? I guess in the comp plan that that that would allow this I mean I would assume everything in was allowable, yet they chose not to do these things. Is that correct? Correct. So you're correct. It's a plan. It's a vision. It's 30,000 feet up in the air. There had been talks, I believe, about potentially having a CRA placed in Cleveland and Salana. That area could definitely be considered blighted. A lot of the plants there were 1880s plants. They were older plants. And so it could have been something where this could have been the genesis if the county had chosen to. Again, 2009-2010, what was going on in 2009-2010? Great recession, I still stand by a possibly depression. And so yes, none of that did move forward. Nothing saying that it can't. Again, this is the epitome of long-term planning. The specifics for the rural sentiment area area overlay district was set out in the comprehensive plan. So under Flu policy 3.1.4 standards for rural settlement overlay district, I don't know why this keeps popping up, I apologize. So it talks about that the will establish the rural settlement area within the rural service area. Development shall exhibit blah blah blah all of these things, a balanced mixture, and then we went and implemented that under Flu appendix one, which lays out all the standards such as the maximum density. So that the rural settlement area overlay district, that red box, yes, they're bound by all of these standards that we put into here. These four or five pages of standards that they have to meet. So again, we understood at the time and again, I will admit I was not here yet. I've been getting this information from my staff but we understood that yeah there are some of those areas that are far more historical, far more... I want to go to GIS, that are far more already developed in a certain pattern doesn't mean that they couldn't do a read you know the diagrams are really nice they're you know they're very thoughtful about what the concepts could be it's just you know it's it's private ownership deciding what they want to do with those areas. Right, Commissioner? Yeah, I want to final comment that you bring up a good point, Commissioner Constance. I guess you know we're focusing most of our conversation today in the overly discreet, but when you look at the whole area of plan, it's segments of this thing. I really, and that's up to administration to look at this thing to see if we need to over time revisit this thing, but it kind of breaks up and For, it breaks up into segments of like from the city limits out to let's say 74, and then from 74 up to the loop, you're going through Cleveland and so forth, what are we gonna do there? I mean, some of those areas really got hit hard with the hurricanes, and don't look that great right now. I mean, aesthetically. So what do we do about that, if anything? But I mean, we should consider it maybe in a revisit of this area, and then obviously from the loop up to the county line becomes this, most of it, it gives this overlay. So the segments of this thing, and that's getting concentration of our conversation this morning, the overlay district, but is that other components of this area point that we might want to look at? Yeah, it's not, it's certainly not urban sprawl. It's just how it's going. Right. Exactly. There's just normal predicted growth that is going to go up that and gentrify that area as time goes by because you know, they're not making more land. So they're trying to find places that approximate the 75, approximate to the current major population. And that's a four lane highway that goes up through the spine of the state. So it's becoming more relevant. And yeah, I mean, I think you're right. We're presented with that overlay district, but really it's an opportunity to look at the whole corridor. I think so. Thank you. And as you can see from this, there are natural boundaries where this is going to stop. Again, this is the county's preservation. This is the Riles Ranch, which is now under conservation. I don't see every individual property owner in Prairie Creek estate selling out to a developer in order to aggregate and do more development. Right, so functionally, in this corridor, the boundaries are pretty fixed. Even if it was extended down here to Burmont Road, you're still not going any further south because that's all preserved land. But if I can, yeah, but to that end, you know, we're again hyper focused on our side of the line. That's an imaginary line. I'm appreciative of the slides showing all those developments north of the line because honestly, we almost have to holistically bring that into whenever we talk about the Bernsturt, the U.S. 17 area plan. We need to have this popped on top of it. It's in a bubble that we can't touch or legislate on, but it's there. And we have to have that as part of the conversation because all that is going to impact the infrastructure and the traffic that goes to 75 on 17. And it's not this what we're looking at is not going to happen in the vacuum. Admittedly when we looked at some of these things that we had no idea about because some of them have just been in the pipeline for years just never developed, you know, looking over here. This area immediately above the Allerond, the old Kingsway golf course, that is 2500 roughly units, 467 over here for Riverside. These are all things that I don't say this aspergingly, but they're not going to be going north to do what they need to do. They're going to be coming south. You know, I know I would hope that our KFI can still say, Mr. Chair, I would hope that our fellow legislators in Arcadia are looking at that and making sure that they're going to pay in for for leaning that King's highway extension beyond what we're doing because that's needed. You know, and at to let us like thank you. Thank you and I'm very fulfilled. Okay. Tom, is yours? Okay. Test test. There you go. Green. It is now. Okay. Okay. Mr. Scott. There you go. Green. It is now. Okay. Okay. Mr. Scott. Good morning. Tom. It's got to be a service director. Today we're bringing kind of a recap discussion on after that you all had taken some time to come out and visit the Thank you all for coming just wanted to say thank you all for coming out. I think it's important for you to be able to be on property to see some of these things. Pictures can tell you some of the story, but I think having your actual eyeballs look at it is important. I wanted to first thank Stephen Kippa and his team in real estate for being able to work with the property owner to allow us to do that that took some timing to do so I appreciate everything they've done. First off, these are not my pictures. I took them off the internet, but this is what I'm told the Port Charlotte golf course used to look like. Then we move into what it looks like. This is when I play golf. This is where I end up usually is often this kind of area, but this is the current state of the Port Charlotte golf course as we traverse around. You can see that there is some growth, obviously not the manicured fairways, showing very disrepair of some of the amenities. The bottom is a picture of what was their tennis courts. This is the actual clubhouse. I took it from the back so you can kind of see some of the damage that was sustained to the facility. I think specifically starting with Ian and then progressing through and then just some picture, an additional picture along the, what was a fairway. This shows the limits of the golf course itself. What is not included is that triangle kind of going out onto the roadway, but this shows you the main golf course, which is the blue area. Some of the acquisition process. So we went through and did an initial phase one that warranted that further investigation is present that we would move on to a phase two. I want to put this presentation together. It was with that phase two would come in. It has come in. So I have some additional slides phase two would come in. It has come in. So I have some additional slides that we're talking in generalities. But we do have the consultant that performed that phase two. We have risk management in the room that is reviewing that currently. So if there are specific questions about the phase two, I'd like to defer to them and have them come up and speak about those. So whenever that time is, I mean, I have a slide specifically on that mitigation that were generally... phase two, I'd like to defer to them and have them come up and speak about those. So whenever that time is, I mean, I have a slide specifically on that mitigation that were general statements, but we can bring them up whenever if you all have questions about phase two. So we've gone through that. The other item is April 22nd. That is when we are slated to be back in chambers on a regular board meeting, to be able to discuss the resolution to make a decision about where we are with our 90 days, which is April 27th. Mr. Constance, did you want to speak now? Yeah, just real quick. I think there should be a third bullet because it's coming back. We can approve the resolution, we can approve termination, we can also approve you going back and negotiating based upon these findings and asking for a further extension of 45 or 60 days because we don't have enough time to figure out how we take this information now and plug it into what we're going to have to do to mitigate the issues because this is one of those things where I'm leaning toward doing this but it's not baked yet. I need staff, I need you guys to have enough time to sharpen your pencils, get whatever information you need to give us a better answer for, you know, where we should be going. And I just hate being pressured and I don't think we, you know, I know we have to have it back next week to give you direction officially. But I think we need a third bullet because I want us to have enough time to make a really good decision on this. Yes, sir Stephen Kepin for the Rostrate Services for the Record. we are bringing it back to the 22nd, which is before our due diligence period ends April 27th. At that time we can make the direction based on the board's decision of what action we'd like to go. Right now it is the two options which we couldn't introduce a third bullet point. I'm not sure if our 30-day timeline would give us the time. 45 60, but something where we have enough time to give you so we can bring it back maybe the last meeting in May or the first one in June, but give you enough time. So yeah, 45 or 60 days, something like that. Absolutely. We would have to get with the property owner to see if he would be willing to. Speaking to the consultant, I'm not sure what we were looking at would be more of a six to nine month timeline to come up with a plan that would meet the EP Okay, anyway, I just want to bring that. Thanks sir So current site as we when we did our tours and we're driving around you saw that there were some buildings that were on the property We've estimated those facilities put the numbers together to estimate the demolition of those to be about $160,000. We're pretty sure there's probably some asbestos in there somewhere, so we put a figure in just to account for that. Once we get into that process, we'd really figure out exactly what that would entail, but these are the numbers that we are estimating for the demolition of the facilities and the buildings that are on site. I do note that we have not identified the funding to do that yet. Site remediation, again, this is the general statements that we had put together before the phase two had actually come in and is now being reviewed by the risk management team. But we know that there, at least we did now, and now it's been confirmed. There are some contaminants that we need to go through and do some remediation for. Again, the consultants here, if you wanna ask specific questions about those. But we also know that there are infrastructure remediation that needs to occur on the property. There's all the damaged golf cart paths, bridges, just a myriad of different things on site that are not necessarily environmental in nature, but they're property in nature just to make sure that we can safe up the site to allow it to remain in a safe state as we move forward. These were our cost estimates based on the cost of the cost. mental and nature, but their property and nature just to make sure that we can safe up the site to allow it to remain in a safe state as we move forward. These were our cost estimates based upon numbers that we've used for other remediations, but again, these were just the estimates and we hadn't identified any funding for this. Did you all want to pause and speak to the consultant or risk at this point? Yeah, I had some questions for the consultant risk at this point? Yeah, I had some questions for the consultant. Hi, I'm John Herman from A.M. RC. OK, question on the phase two. What was found? arsenic and deald in soil and in groundwater, arsenic. We didn't find any D. Eldrin in groundwater, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's not there. The phase two is rather limited in focus to make sure that either the property is clean or if it was impacted. So this is more of like a general, is it clean or not? We did find arsenic and D. Eldrin in the soil and arsenic and groundwater though. Okay, so there's different types of remediation for soil and groundwater I've had experience with both of them. The groundwater can be problematic, I think more than the soil. I mean, soil can be removed, you know, taken off site and treated at a facility. The groundwater, on the other hand, requires things that I've had experience in like stripper towers, things like that. Is that where you're looking at here? No, absolutely not. With the magnitude of the issue here, we'd be looking at a conditional closure where, you know, so we'd have a restrictive covenant or institutional controls on the property. Looking at a clean closure isn't really feasible for this property, just based on the magnitude of the impacts for groundwork that we already identified. That would be the driving factor for a clean closure. But also, you have arsenic and dildrin impacts in almost half of your samples. If you're looking for an absolute clean closure, you would have to have those meet the most strict standards based on residential direct exposure or reachability, which I don't think is feasible for this property. Yeah, because this area is surrounded by residents. I mean, it's very densely populated. It's one of our older sections of town. It's pretty much infill. So what you're saying is it would be something more like test wells where they're sampling done over time to see if it's self-remediates. So what would have for a conditional closure, we would essentially have to establish that the plume is stable or shrinking completely contained on site or if it leaves the site, we have to completely delineate it and any additional properties would have to basically agree to that conditional closure with you know those conditions being restrictions on groundwater use or soil usage. But what how do you remedy it? It would just be there. Okay so- It would be we would monitor it for- Yes as I said so you do test wells you pull samples to see- Yeah yeah so monitor it until, you know, a certain period of time where FDEP feels comfortable that it's not going to migrate. And then from there, the wells would be abandoned and a conditional closure would apply to a certain area for that site. Yeah, I mean, it brings up liability, too, for me, knowing that these things are in the groundwater until we understand where it's migrated to in the hydrology, the area, where has it gone, and who's responsible should there be an issue in the hydrology, the area, you know, where has it gone and who's responsible should there be an issue in the future? Sure, yeah, this is, I mean, it's actually a very common issue for golf courses, as you can imagine. Arseneck-based pesticides have been applied to historical golf courses. That was a legal application of it for many years for golf courses all across Florida. So it's something that we would expect to find on a golf course, and this wouldn't be a precedent as far as redeveloping a site for recreational use. In fact, the recreational use CTL, so the clean-up target levels for a property like this would actually be less stringent than residential zoning. So you can actually redevelop this property under different guidelines that maybe you wouldn't have to actually take off nearly as much soil as you wouldn't participate normally doing for residential area. So you said it would be more conducive to be an outside park. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so the next step would be to get with FDEP and propose alternative cleanup target levels. So we wouldn't be using the most stringent residential cleanup target levels. We'd be using this new, we can either try to do for a site-specific one and then they would essentially FDEP would take that to UF, and they're toxicologists, and they would work it out based on the future site use. And I put in the report, you know, 5.5 is the most recent accepted for a recreational use for arsenic and soil, which compared to, you know, residential is 2.1, so it's a considerable difference considering the concentrations found at the Gulf of course. So I have not seen the phase two so I'm at a disadvantage I've not had the ability to read it and examine it. The estimated cost and timeline in here has an asterisk, it says depending on phase two right and what amount of remediation is required but there's 500 to 5 million so it's range. Sure. And the way things have been going for the county lately, in terms of cost estimates, it hasn't been working out. So based on your knowledge, and you've had the ability to read the phase to performing work like this before, what is your range? So honestly, the range is pretty actually good. actually good that it's something that I didn't come up with. I estimated that it's very possible that this can happen with less than $1 million. It's really gonna happen, what's gonna happen is we have to discuss with FDEP, they have to approve the work plan first, then we have to do that initial, that additional assessment. And from there, we'll know exactly how much really it's going to cost to remediate the site. And the hope is that we would be essentially using a lot of the soil in other places of the site using some planned features for the site, like a parking lot that we can actually use as an engineering control to cover some of the most impacted soil areas. So there's a lot of strategies for a plan use for a park that you can implement with the remediation to kind of cut to cast down with this. Yeah, I think that's going to be key for me. It dovetails on what Commissioner Constance was talking about the appropriate time to analyze us and understand what we're dealing with, which is why we go through the due diligence process. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I I'm hearing it may take months to come up with a plan like that. Is that what I just heard? Yeah, it's going to take a considerable amount of time and then we'd have to, you know, from there we would have to agree on established those cleanup target levels that we're going to utilize for what's considered clean. And in the report once you do review, you'll notice I mentioned upper confidence level testing. So not necessarily delineating every single exceedance that we see on the site, but rather looking at everything and saying how likely are you actually going to exceed a certain threshold. An FDP in the past has been amenable to a plan like that rather than that. But you know we would look at certain areas like the maintenance facility would be a source that you'd want to actually do remediation on, but like fairways or greens, if it's all the average concentration is below the standard that we're shooting for, then we might not have to do any remediation for those areas. Did you say nine months I thought I heard earlier in terms of work? Oh, it's tough to say because it's going to go. So right now FDEP doesn't even know this is an issue, right? So there's no site manager assigned from FDEP. There's, it's completely under their radar until this report is public knowledge or it's submitted to FDEP. Then they would assign a site manager. We would work with that site manager to submit a work plan. They would send it to their business district in Tallahassee. Tallahassee would review that if we proposed any alternative CTLs, that would go to UF, and then back to Tallahassee, then back to the site manager, then to us. So it could be a lengthy process probably nine months. It wouldn't be unrealistic. Yeah, because to the extent there is an extension on this, for me it's gonna be tied to DEP and an mitigation plan, Commissioner Dory. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You hit on a lot of it. I can't tell you how many projects I worked on where my clients did not close until I had secured all the approvals. It's just the contingency type thing. So yeah, I'm in the same position. I think the price on the land needs to be negotiated. And I think quite honestly, for next week, Mr. Flores, I think we need a basic outline, your best guess, roughly of what kind of an extension we should be requesting from the owner right now, see if they're interested. But I think we need some basic framework stuff to be able to plug into the motion next week as to what we do with this piece of property. Thank you. Mr. Chair, actually recognize it. Thank you. I have to ask this question. We don't buy this. Just theoretically say, and we don't buy this. Who's responsible for the cleanup? Is it current owner responsible to clean that property up before it's? Yeah, so however the property is going to be this is a tough situation where phase two's typically are for the buyer, right? And you know if the buyer isn't buying usually these reports don't go public and you know it's up to the if the owner doesn't know about the contamination then they wouldn't have to report it It's it's an interesting situation with the due diligence But yes, I mean ultimately you know if there is contamination on the property that property owners should be liable for that remediation But for a situation like this where it was legal application of you know historical Turf management practices for a golf course. This isn't necessarily a discharge, right? This is more of something that just was common practice for Florida for most golf courses. So it would really be up to whatever a buyer would be wanting to transition the property to. There's, as I mentioned, the alternative cleanup target levels for recreational use, you know, if a property, if the developer is going for residential, then obviously they would look at those more stringent ones. But if it was actually a 55 plus community, there's actually less stringent, you know, you can go all the way up to like seven. So, we're expendable. So, you're closer to the end, That's cool. That's cool. But they do want to get the toxic... We're expendable. So you're closer to the end, to the beginning. That's cool. But they do it with the toxicology. And based on that formula that they have for it is how they come up with the alternative cleanup target levels. So it would really depend on how the site is going to be used. If it's going to continue as a golf course, there might not be any remediation necessary, right? right because it's just, you know, if it's just several million dollars to get it back to being a golf course. Yes. It's going to continue as a golf course. There might not be any remediation necessary, right? Because it's just, you know, if it's- Just several million dollars to get it back to being a golf course. Yes, yeah, right. So, I guess I want to make a point. We're talking about extension on this, doing our due diligence, and then negotiating the price. I can't negotiate a price until I know what's going to cost to fix it. And right now my price is a dollar because we're looking at a lot of uncertainty and a lot of expense. Now, is that fair to the seller? No, but it's also, you know, we have to be very careful moving forward. And I do believe that the best way to use it is a park because it's a lesser standard that has to be met. The else is going to buy it for residential. It's already had a contract on it, fell through because the arsenic was there. So I firmly believe that we need, as long as the extension as we can get, to make sure that we have DEP, UF, our consultant and our risk management people in line, and then we can make a decision, guys. That's where I'm coming from. Thank you. And I appreciate what you do, because that is a very interesting, when you do soils, test things, and all those things, I find it very interesting what we find. But then standards, I don't quite understand, especially the 55 and older one. I don't understand. Yeah, that's a new one. That's a new one. Everybody in the room shuddered. I know I did. Commissioner Deutsch. Yeah, it's imperative we get the real value of mitigation before we can move ahead. And I think one of the keys of affecting the value of the property and what we will be able to negotiate is as we do this, this is public now. I don't think everyone was really aware of the extent of what may have to be done with remitteration, cleaning up the property and the realities we need a realistic number and because that's what's going to determine the real value of the property. So somehow we've got to work out, we're going to have to have an extension, we've got to get a realistic number. But I think the value of the property is obviously going to change as directly related to whatever the cost of mitigation is going to be. Thank you, sir. Mr. Dordy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess the key is programming. What the program is going to be for this piece of property. Again, you are assuming community parks, wall fields, things of that nature, recreational activities. And I think that I understand you correctly that you made a guess that the cost then would be probably somewhere around a million dollars. Did I hear that number come out of you? It's just an educated guess based on what we found so far, but we would really need to do more assessment and have that communication with them. Totally understand, but based on your experience and based on that kind of a use as opposed to a residential development being put on that piece of property. Maybe the order of magnitude could possibly be around a million dollars. Order of magnitude, absolutely. Easy way to say it. So yeah, I agree. Well, we're all saying the same thing. We need a lot more time. We probably need to spend a little time too, as to the program. Are we going to really commit, or do we want more flexibility on that piece of property? If we want more flexibility to put other uses on there, then that cost is going to go way up. So we may be walking away from this deal. Good point, we pigeonhole ourselves into one use and take away the flexibility of something else on part of the property. Because it's a big piece of property. Precisely. Yeah. Mr. Scott, you have a few slides left. Any more questions? I'm just getting just gonna say, again, just, I'm hearing what you guys are saying. We'll go back to the seller. We'll come back to you on the 22nd with some sort of action for determination from the board and see what we can work out. Yeah, I'm back. I just wanted to take a moment and point out that the consultant did say that these ranges were reasonable. I put these estimates together, I worked with Travis to kind of come up with. Here we go. Are you fulfilled? I am fulfilled. I was kind of wobbly there for a minute, but now I am. So thank you. I'm the 55 was getting real close to me. So I'm a little blurry at on that one. But but again the number that John was talking about was the environmental remediation I just want to make sure we're not losing sight we still have other sight infrastructure remediation that would need to occur as well so and oh by the way we still haven't identified a funding source for that yet here we understand ongoing maintenance we talked about this when we were doing our tours this is going to be something that will need to have a discussion about to try and set and manage expectations not only of the public, but through our organization and up through you all setting those. We worked with BCS that once the per code, once the buildings are removed, there's no maintenance requirement. So there's nothing that says we have to do anything maintenance-wise to the property after that. So then we get into some options, right? And we discuss these. We could do, perform no maintenance. We could do nothing. We could just leave it as it currently is. It's been in that state since basically Hurricane Ian. And so again, I think it has been helped by the fact that it was a manicured golf course. So it was bermutigrass of some form in nature. So that's why you're not seeing a whole lot of overgrowth in there. So one, we could leave it at that level. Two, we could do safety. So it was bermutigrass of some form in nature. So that's why you're not seeing a whole lot of overgrowth in there. So one, we could leave it at that level. Two, we could do safety maintenance. Basically, we could set a mowing schedule just to maintain it to a certain level. We could do an entire site knockdown mowing on a cycle. We could do just the perimeter. That was one of the things we talked about, too, was to create a buffer zone between the property owners and the property itself. We put some numbers in here, so those are the estimates, and that's per-mo cycle. So if we wanted to just do the perimeter, it's about 50,000 a cycle. If we wanted to move the whole property, it's about 100,000 a cycle. The other option is we could set a park maintenance level of maintenance and operation. So out of the the Parks and Recumaster Plan, we have a set standard that we maintain to, where we set that really determines upon the staffing and cost associated with it. We're not necessarily recommending that but that is something we could do at this point time. The one thing that we did talk about we were out there was in working with facilities if we were to acquire the property in that interim period of time We would recommend gating off the front just to restrict that vehicular traffic. We're not looking to fence the entire property but just making sure we can limit the amount of vehicular traffic that comes in and out of there knowing that there still is an active utility site that there is obviously vehicles that need to come in and out. Planning this is one of the things that you all talked about as well is you know what will the property be used for when we talked about this when we were doing our tours? So kind of gathering that information and doing a conceptual master planning, big bubble kind of concepts, right? Looking at what are the county space needs, the park programatical infrastructure, there's been discussions of a third party user that might be interested in as well. Kind of really doing a space allocation and a general site master planning. We're estimating that number to be about $250,000 to kind of really get dig into the site, how we could plan it. Phase two coming on top of that, that will be folded into that entire conversation. Then once we plan it, future phase would be actually developing that. So design permitting and construction of whatever it is that we master plan out, work on those third party agreements. We do know that we'll have to identify and procure an additional ingress egress under the property because right now there is only one way onto that property. So we'll have to do that as well. And then lastly, I took these slides from the previous presentation that we gave on this kind of large sport complex conversation. This kind of goes into the conversations that Sean from Tourism Brutford kind of on those lost revenues that if we built out a large sport complex, this has been some of the historical lost events and economic impact that we have had in the last four and a half years. These are additional sport types that we're not even able to touch in by we, I mean tourism and their staff, that we aren't even able to touch just because we don't have space in our current sport-filled allocation to accommodate. And then this is information that Sean had provided. These are some of the organizations that they had reached out to that said, if we were to create this, if we build it, they will come, type concept. That there, as you can see, there is interest in doing this. We are a preferred destination. People have been historically coming here. I think having a facility like this, they would continue to come. And then really we're up against these are our neighbors and fellow counties that are already ahead of us and are in design and or in some places construction of one of these large mega sport complexes. So realistically, we talked about this on the tour. I thought this was a good time. I wanted to try and squeeze this in so it worked with administration just to allow you all the opportunity to have some discussions together. We did these individually when we were out on site. Now we have phase two to layer in on top of that. We're here to answer any questions you got. We're also here to listen to any comments that you've got, Mr. Kipp is already taken away the comments on extension and working with the seller. But I stand ready for any questions you might have or any other comments. Mr. Churek. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Tell me thank you. A couple things, starting with the maintenance of the property, once if we do acquire it, we don't want people on this right now, I'm sure. So I also don't want to become a nuisance to the neighbors. So my discussion with my fellow board members would be a maintenance moe to keep it from creeping into their properties but nothing else. Because if it gets too nice to walk around, we're going to have people all over it. We need to get cleaned up before we all start allowing that. That's my thought on that. The other thing is before we do a conceptual master plan, and I'd like to know between you and Sean, what your guys' ideas are before we spend $250,000. I'm not asking you to do a layout, but what are gonna be the optimal events that we can host? I know you're showing those to me, but I'd like to see them a little bit more in rehearsed mode of how this can work. And I think the two of you guys together, along with your other Sean, can help pull all that forward. Because I do believe it's a grid location I do believe it's a viable piece of property even though we've got a lot of hurdles to come come over and since we haven't found funding yet I'd still like to have a good idea and then we're gonna want to go to do a master plan I'm sure provided we move. So if we can get a little bit more detail on the thoughts of that, I think that would be fantastic. And I know that we have a lot of moving parts. I'm going to talk about some of them right now. But we do have an opportunity to expand what we do for baseball, potentially, and this could just add to that for different levels of sports. I know that there's a lot of other things here. We don't need to talk about, but I appreciate the information that you provided, the organizations that have an interest in coming forward. Obviously, that shows that we could have a major impact, immediately, once this thing's up and running. So thank you. Thank you, And if I may, that is exactly the conversation that we had with the Shons and Tourism was tell us what is the best and highest use for sport fields. Is it the list that's here, but there are a myriad of other sport opportunities that are available. That is their wheelhouse. There are the experts in that. That's why we leaned heavy on them. So I'll work with Sean to make sure that we can get you some additional information that's really backed up in information. Thank you. Yeah. Before you go, future development need for additional ingress egress. I had pulled up on GIS where that could possibly be. There really is no possible place unless you purchase somebody's house or house is. I looked at O'Lean and then I think it was beacon. Everything is fully built out. I don't know where the proposed additional ingress egress would be. And Mr. Kippa. Correct. I have looked around a lot. The parcel myself as well. Everything is developed around it. There are a number of homes that are currently out for sale, as I anticipate in the future as well. But it would require acquiring a home and a militia of a home, based on the master plan of wearing next in grassy grassry would be situated. Yeah, I mean, or more than one home. So, you know, those are the kind of things when you come back. I'm, you know, when this comes back, you know, assuming there's an extension and we continue with the due diligence, a couple of things that I'm going to need to know and I'll just tell you now, we're going to have to identify by that time where those potential spots are in an estimated cost. We can get you a range. I'm good at ranges. Tommy Scott for the record. Oh, Tommy Scott for the record. We'll have to get you ranges because until we do the planning phase, I don't know exactly where it would potentially be. So I'm not, I couldn't tell you specifically which homes, but we would work closely with real estate to identify that. As long as it's an estimate something I want to placeholder or dollar amount that I understand. and what would, you know, is it 200, 300, just whatever number you come up with, I want to get that rough number. Also I had mentioned in a previous meeting about the current taxes at this property is paying. They are paying about $75,000 in taxes, $51,000 in non-advalorum. So Charlotte Fire rescue gets 24,000 stormwater gets 26,000 and another stormwater gets 655 and then 7600 to our General Fund, 2600 to law enforcement. So just so we're all aware of what the property is currently paying. Those will be shortfalls to those MSBUs. That'll be an additional makeup somewhere down the line when that goes away just so the boards are aware. And funding, while most of the slides say funding has not yet been identified, I'm going to want more clarity when this comes back to the board on let's start identifying funding because I am not going to move ahead with a project that has where I'm flying blind on funding. I want to at least have a conceptual idea on where funding mechanisms may be. Again, that's a conversation for the next level if we get past this due diligence. But I'm going to want to start having a board conversation about that commissioner. True, I actually recognize it. Thank you. And to that end, I think that this is a good project to look at for sales tax. I agree. That's that's where I think we should really look so the presentation proposal that needs to come together it may not be a master plan yet but it needs to be enough which is why I'm going that direction. I think it would be a great sales tax project. Mr. Constance can ask a legal a legal question? So, I mean, it doesn't sound like this is going to happen overnight where we agree and everything is buttoned down and we close. But what if this were to close prior to the election? Can you earmark funds for something that's being purchased and then back pay it with the sales tax or once we own it that's not eligible anymore because that factors it. No I think you could do that. We'll double check on that but and it has to be for public infrastructure. Right. I mean this is planning wouldn't count but this makes a lot of sense. I agree with Mr. Troux. Thank you. Mrs. Lewis is approaching. Sorry for the work of Emily Lewis, Deputy County Administrator. Commissioner Zalves-Gunsch is going to address that we do have Sir-Police Collections and Existing Sales Tax that could be used to acquire and then we could plan for future sales tax for programming and development. So again, if we purchased prior to the referendum, we'd have to use other dollars. If we closed after the referendum, then it would follow. We would be able to use the money for purchasing and further development. Correct. Okay. Thank you. And I don't disagree that sales tax should be on the table, but tourism has a big role in this. I want to know what the availability is from tourism dollars for elements of this facility. We're already struggling with sales tax. We want to do edge water transportation is a huge priority for this board. Are we now going to allocate excess funds to this type of facility when we've already told staff we got to get transportation done? So it's probably a much more broader discussion. This board has to have with an updated sales tax income revenue. So alongside those other priorities that we have to see where this would fit in the current sales tax mix for excess funds. But also I know with sales tax things have been done in phases where perhaps certain elements are paid for through sales tax and maybe not the whole thing. And it's a combination of things. Grants, tourism, sales tax and things like that. And infrastructure funds through, the parks has an allocation of funding. We look at the budget for parks and rec and see where all that comes into play. Commissioner Dirty recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One question relative to the timing of all this, we have the consultant did the phase two. We're throwing out estimates of time to get answers back so we roughly speaking nine months of processing. But what about is this entity? Is he under contract right now to do the work we're talking about or do we have to put put an RFP out for those services, Jeanette, that adds two or three more months on this thing. I just need that answer. When we're dealing with not, he's saying nine months, so that's like, go right now, right? Get going, we'll get it, get started on it. Is there a lead time to secure the professionals to do that work? Or is he under contract to do the work? Stephen Kupig in for policy services. Our contract right now was for to perform the phase two. Nothing beyond that scope other than the services for being here today and on the 22nd if needed. I think you need to get know that on the 22nd. We need to get with Kim and find out where we are and what has to be done. Because I think I'm looking at this thing being at least a year out, a year out. I was going to say a year from the beginning of their work. That might be more than a year if we have to wait two or three months to get a contract. So I just wanted to bring that up. I don't disagree. We need to condition the contract based on this board discussion. We need to load it up with all of our conditions and concerns. If the seller doesn't want it, that's fine with me. I'm not going to fall in love with a deal that I can't walk away. Let him sit on the property and pay his taxes. To me, there's no downside. Keep paying taxes. So, you know, we can't move on this deal unless our concerns are met period. I think we've got more time, Mr. Chairman, more time than we've talked about. Whatever time. So, you know, we can't move on this deal unless our concerns are met period. I think we've got more time, Mr. Chairman. More time than we've talked about. Whatever time we need, we'll have staff come back and we'll condition accordingly. That would be my input on that. Any other comments on this item? Okay, thank you, Mr. Scott. Thank you. Next item number three, transit update. Good morning. Okay, put this down a little bit. Good morning. Heidi Maddox, Transit Operations Manager. It's been about two years since I was here last to provide you with an update and a lot has happened since then. So today I'm just going to take you through where we were two years ago, where we've come and where we hope to be going in the next few years. So program overview, we offer public transportation that provides transportation service to anyone anywhere for any reason within our service boundaries. In FY24 we did just over 60,000 trips under public transit just to give you an idea when I was here two years ago that number was about 30,000. Transportation disadvantaged, that transportation services based on qualifiers, age, income, disability, lack of any other transportation services. This program does require a community transportation coordinator, a CTC, which Charlotte County Transit is under the TD Commission and a local coordinating board. The CTC is really responsible for ensuring that transportation is provided within the area and the LCB is and advisory board that provides information and other options to the CTC commissioner Dordy is the current chair of the LCB. At 424 we did just under 20,000 trips under this program that hasn't changed or shifted since I was here two years ago. I just really want to stress, transit is heavily, heavily grant funded, state grants, federal grants. You see there in FY21, there was no general fund impact. And that was due to the CARES and ARPA funds that were secured directly through the Federal Transit Administration and managed by Zinnie Vargas and her team in fiscal to really minimize that impact on the general fund. We continue to you know minimize as best we can the impact to the general fund and really really maximize our use of our grant funding for services. Annual ridership you know I just wanted show FY 19, pre that pandemic time when we really saw that dip happen and start to happen in 20, you know, in FY 20, of course, March, we started having to social distance. We had to reduce the number of routes around the road per day. That was just industry-wide, you know, drivers were not working and choosing not to work in the public transportation industry. We see a slight increase in FY22. We attribute that to after Hurricane Ian and the need for transportation for folks that were displaced for some time. And then FY24, we launched our new scheduling software, the beginning of FY24. So we've really seen that work the way it should and we're on the rise to pre-COVID levels. Trips by purpose, employment remains steady at number one as far as the purpose followed by medical and life enhancing. Life enhancing is any trip that just doesn't fall into any of these other categories. It could be a trip to a friend's house. It could be to a restaurant, a shopping center, that kind of thing. So now I want to talk about implemented enhancements. What have we done since I was here two years ago? We talked last time about replacing the scheduling software. We've done that. Improve scheduling optimization. We've done that. Launch the mobile app. We did that and I'll talk a little more in that as we go. We've increased drivers slightly. We've gone from 10 to 11 last time I was here and now we're running 17 to 18 routes per day. And then a community outreach team that we've also implemented and again I'll speak to that as we go along. This really I'm not going to spend much time on this slide just want you guys to see the back end what supervisors dispatchers are looking at throughout the day it allows them to see peak times and you know where they're busy and really helps us you know have a good feel throughout the day of what's going on on the road. So it's part of these the new scheduling software. One thing we've been able to do is remove that 72 to 96 hour advanced reservation requirement and go to we asked for a two hour minimum notification, but if we can meet the trip in an hour, we'll go ahead and book that trip for folks. We're not turning people away if we can make that trip. Mr. Constance, but it's certainly same day. Absolutely. Yeah, it's great. It's the same day. Yeah, I mean, for a free service, that's pretty incredible. Mm-hmm, absolutely. We've really really this is not exactly what we had hoped and expected it would do. Okay, great. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. So like I mentioned, we launched the Charlotte Rights Mobile app. We did a soft launch in August of 24 and then got a little delayed with our, you know, our real launch. Just do a couple of hurricanes that occurred. And so we did our official launch in November of 2024. But this just shows what the user would see when they're booking the trip. And I'm sure you've all downloaded the Charlotte Wright's mobile app at this point and have seen it. But it does show the pick up location, drop off location. As your trip gets closer, you user is able to view where their bus is in a real good estimated pickup time. And then of course, folks can see the upcoming past and cancel trips that they have. In the upper right-hand corner, that's the icon that you would see once you download that to your phone. All right. mobile app accounts. This chart just shows us a cumulative per month. New mobile app accounts that are set up and registered. We currently have just over 550 registered users on the mobile app. The average mobile app user age is 40. Just throw that out there. Interesting. Complete and mobile app trips. Again, just a running total. You can see in March we did just over 1,000 completed trips on the app. So the last enhancement that we have implemented over the course of the past few years is a community outreach team. You know, we heard, you know, more marketing and this was our way of being able to do that at a very low cost. The outreach team comprises of three transit employees who just do this in addition to their regular job duties. They attend county held events as well as H.O.W.A. meetings, they attend agency meetings to just spread the word about Charlotte County's best kept secret, right? So now just an update on the transit development plan, the TDP last time I was here, we were just beginning that process and going into it. The TDP, you know, as you're all aware, you were part of the process. You took place in the stakeholder interviews as a time as the process went along. But again, it's a tenure vision for transit. The major update is done every five years. Looks at a ten-year horizon. What are the needs? What are the unmet needs and what's funded, what's not funded? And again, it's a collaborative process. You know, there's stakeholders, interviews, there are discussion group held, public workshops and surveys that are completed during this process. Again, this is a plan. It's not set in stone. It's for planning, and it is a requirement for transit to receive state block grant funding. As part of the TDP process, we also conducted a fair study. We looked at an alternative fuel assessment and service area expansion. the fair study, it was a good process to go through at this time we're not looking to implement fares, just the overhead and the implementation costs just don't seem enough to recoup what we put into it at this point based on that fair study. Service area expansion, I'll talk about that in a later slide as well. So pending goals from the TDP, we're currently looking at rebranding, expanding our marketing and outreach program, multimodal implementation and newer emplacement vehicles. All of these items here that we see on the screen for pending goals are included in the upcoming budget. We've worked them in, except for multimodal implementation. So the first part of the process with the TDP from all this information that we gather from all the participants is identifying the needs. The next step is taking those needs and ranking them based on prioritization, again through through feedback from the interviews, discussion groups, et cetera. And we'll see at the top there, number one is a micro transit system. So planned enhancements. I'm going to spend a little bit of time on this slide. I just want to give you some background. What we're looking at here is a proposed micro transit area, three different areas within the county. You might be saying, hey, what's micro transit, right? Micro transit is just a, it's a more flexible type of transportation in a designated area, typically using smaller vehicles, many vans, let's say. Again, it's a shared ride service, as opposed to more so-over private taxi as well. So, transit spent a lot of time gathering data. We use data from our FY24 actual trips. We use data from the TVP, and then we worked really closely with Carey, Wohlsch, and Metro Forecasting to come up with these proposed areas for the micro transit service. So the first area that we're looking at here is our Murdoch transit area. We looked at trips that occurred in FY24 that occurred within three miles of the pickup and drop off destination. And what we found were the three proposed areas had the greatest concentration of those trips. We looked five miles out. Again, it went back to these three areas, whereas all throughout the county it was kind of scattered, clustered, pick up and job off areas. So our proposed area for Murdoch is just under three square miles. These areas in this service, again it's a pilot service that we're looking at, would offer extended hours of operation. And then within these three areas you see the top destinations are employment, medical and nutritional. Port Charlotte area. And then within these three areas you see the top destinations are employment, medical, and nutritional. Port Charlotte area. This is kind of the hospital district and down in that area. 3, 3, 9, 5, 2 is the sick code that we honed in on. Just over four square miles medical nutritional employment. When? Ponegorta. Just over two square miles. Again, you've seen that medical employment employment. Ponegorta, just over two square miles. Again, you've seen that medical employment nutrition happening down there. So what we're looking at here on this slide is just the different data that we captured. On the left hand side, that's our data from Metro Forecasting. On the right, that's from the TDP that's showing the zero, not zero, but necessarily the number of vehicles per household. And then on the bottom is from our scheduling software and pulling that data. And you can see how all this data just overlies and connects to the same three locations to pilot this program. Again, I just I should remind you this is a pilot program that we're looking at. Like I said, it's not currently in the budget. If we're awarded grant funding for this, we will bring it back to you at that time. The funding is a three-year term. The operating cost are 50% re-inversible. It would offer users extended hours of operation. Now with this program, if we're able to bring it on, there will be a need for additional staffing to support the program. Commissioner Turex. I just want to work his... Oops. The cost associated with the capital and the employee is that part of our 50% match. Capital is typically 100% reversible. And then what was the other part of the question? The additional employees that we're going to need to help operate is that part of our our 50% match? Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Okay. I know we've all seen this circulator route before Tommy Scott has brought it to you. But again, this ties back into our TDP. This was one of the parts of the plan that was looked at and found as a need. And so we didn't really think that two back toto-back hurricanes were going to bump this along, but here we are. And it's running really well. People are using it. As of yesterday, we had done 190 trips to and from the beach. Yes. A quick question on the micro transit. So essentially, we're already servicing these areas. It's just extending the hours of operation. It's essentially what this is. It's extending the hours of operation and then by using the smaller vehicles in these areas, it allows our larger buses or larger vans that we're using now to go elsewhere, right? Because the vehicles would remain in these three areas, they wouldn't go outside those boundaries. So it allows to pick up other trips outside of them. Okay, so there'll be a time savings essentially if they're just roaming the area or they're constantly, supposedly, they're always on the call. We're hoping they're going to constantly be running, right? Right, right. Okay. Yeah, that's the goal. And that's something that we'll look at as time goes, because if we need to adjust hours, because there's no ridership between 11 and 4, we can do that, right? So you have not proposed the cost associated with the extra fees to do the extended hours and things like that. We did not include it. But as an estimate now, there's no estimate now. There's an estimate included in the grant application but not included in this line. Okay. What was that number? We're on the high end of over a million dollars. Okay. So over a million dollars. Okay. For the to do this part. The service and the service, the administrative costs and the marketing. Okay. And that included some of the additional capital that needs to be invested includes operating. The portion that the county would have to do the 50% match on, what's that number? Like what's our 50% match? So we are not including any capital costs in this program. Are our plans- Okay, so already have enough- The idea- Our plan is to not have any capital cost. And so, you know, if the program comes in at 1.5 million, half of that 750,000 would be. Okay, that's what I was trying to get to that number. Okay, thank you. Again, estimated, not written in still. Right. Until. Okay. All right. So we talked about the circulator route. I'm sorry. I had stepped away earlier. You talked about the ARPA funding and that most of our current system is provided not with local funds. It's provided with grants and that's going to go away. Is that that gonna go away at some point or no, we're gonna continue to get those grants. We will continue seeking the grants, but the way the funds are allocated under some grant programs will be shifted after the 2030 census. Okay, so are we currently with the grant funding we're currently getting? Are we matching? Yes. Okay, so this will just be another additional match should we move forward with the micro-transition? Correct. Okay, thank you. Can I? Yeah, I'm sorry, Commissioner Constance, right? Thanks, sir. So two things as we look at these, at the micro-transit and then they can talk about the circulator but is there is there an option because you know you're going to talk about drivers in a minute and I'm thinking maybe there's a convergence between sort of an autonomous system so that you hit the button on your app and the vehicle shows up. It only goes 40 miles an hour. I mean, it's not going to be speeding you around, but hopefully it's going to be safe. Where is this being done in an autonomous way with micro circulators and things that you're talking about? Because I'd like to see how that wheel looks. Because we're going of, I mean, first off those vehicles may or may not be electric. They may or may not be grants associated with those. There may be a way to do this in a fairly low cost way if we wait and then the operational costs will be a lot lower. So I don't know if you can speak to that. And again, I can't believe it's been two years since you presented that seems like a blink of an eye. You were just here. So anyway. I can't speak much to that right now. We can certainly look into it. I know a lot of agencies started the autonomous programs and then pulled them back. They piloted them and then pulled them back. So we can certainly do some research and give back to you on agencies that may currently be using it and agencies that used it in more or any more. Right, absolutely. So we can certainly do some research and give back to you on agencies that may currently be using it and agencies that used it in more or any more. Right. I love to understand experience because let's not invent the wheel. Let's figure out what, you know, let people make the mistakes or prove out the way to do it and then let's take those examples because I'm still waiting to understand it. And it sounds like it's going to be more applicable in a very urban inner city area where there's almost No cars allowed, you know, I don't know if you've been up to New York lately, but they have full Red lanes literally the lane is painted completely red and it's only for buses And if a car gets in that lane, it better be turning at the next corner or there's a big big fat fine for being in that lane. And so buses are the best way to get around Manhattan now because they fly. They just fly through the traffic. And so they're starting to conceptualize how do we make this work and they're disincentivizing single person vehicle use. They would rather have you on an electric scooter or something that makes a lot more sense Then take up an entire You know six by ten or twelve space on the roadway when it's in a congested zone This is a little bit different. We're more rural and so it's harder to apply those things But certainly something we can look at we're absolutely Wonderful. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that micro transit grant, that's just an annual grant has to be reapplied for every year. The way this grant is set up, because it's a service development grant, you apply for it once, and it goes on for three years. At the end of three years. You reapply. You reapply with the caveat that you're going to make a change to that service. Maybe it's extended hours. Maybe you're opening up the zone. Some sort of change. Yeah, because there's no guarantee after the period's up that you're going to be awarded the grant again. Right. So again, pilot program, something you need to consider when we're looking at that. Well, if I can jump in yeah but I mean it's said from what she just said it sounds like they don't want it to be recurring you they're gonna give you a pilot amount of money and then you go and the only way we can kind of try to get additional funds is to change the application or sweeten it with something new and then but the I but the bottom is, no, it's not recurring. Well, then we have to be prepared. If we move forward that, we're going to have a new cost burden. Correct. 100% of it. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So I think we covered this enough. We talked about the trips we've done so far. We'll keep it going. You know, the other piece that we're looking at is plant and future service air expansion. When I was here two years ago, our service area was very small at that point. We were running 10-11 buses a day and we just could only do what we could do. Since then, we have opened a serious service area quite a bit so we're showing the blue is our current service area, green is future expansion and then you know the yellow is the remaining full county coverage that we're looking out further and further out. You know we open up our service area now really on case by case basis. You know we take the time to look at what's the need, is it feasible to open it up? Are we able to service it and keep the rest of the current demand? That's how we're working that now, is really just on a case by case basis. Yes, I'm going to talk about our driver contract. The current contract is coming to an end September 30th of this year. So we do have an RFP with purchasing for a new start of 10-1, which we plan to bring to you in July. You know, we have been able to pass three years. We've really been able to keep our costs flat with the current vendor just based on what their bid came in at. And I know Gordon's been telling you, we're anticipating an increase in the hourly rate going forward. And so just again, just want to bring it to your attention again that we are going out contract. You know, we've had some pains over the past few years that we've been able to work through, find temporary fixes for, but with the new contract, we really do anticipate a higher, hourly rate. So I would be remiss if I didn't talk about what transit does as far as disaster efforts go. In the next slide I'm going to show you a video. It was taken the evening of September 26th when Hurricane Helene was hitting. And it just shows what transit does on the back end that most people don't really see. And you know during the night of September 26th, the transit transported 53 adults, three children, 16 pets, that were being rescued from their homes in Punagorda by boats, by big pickup trucks, and brought to a drop point in Punagorda and taken to a shelter to safety. Charlotte County wants you to stay off the roads until further notice. Take a look at these pictures showing the widespread flooding. Some of that standing water is still covering the streets this morning. In fact, the county says public works crews are going to assess the roads this morning. NBC2's Joshua Cole is local from AQUIES the Drive in US-41 and point of We're more the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of police and Charlotte County emergency services. Stay off the roadways. They are underwater. In fact, the only people who should be out right now are emergency crews and people trying to rescue others new video of a punogor to family of four rescue from their neighborhood of Ankeesta by boat. The father carrying an infant and young one sticking by his mom's side. Others carried in an excavator this morning. Punnigorda roads are full of water with dozens of roads closed. Charlotte County emergency crews picking up neighbors along US 41 in transit vans to get them to shelters. Yeah, it was all just water just coming up. Other neighbors trapped overnight just from Helene Storm's search filling the peace river. There was a guy in there who's in mobile. You can can't walk. So he's not walking to the road to get help. So I brought my kayak up case for when he comes up later. If it's that flooded, there's so many people now with water in their homes. Charlotte County fire officials confirming the electrical to get help. So I brought my kayak up case for when he comes up later if it still flooded. There's so many people now with water in their homes. Surely county fire officials confirming the electrical fires in flooded homes. A sad and devastating reality for a lot of these neighbors here in fact so much so that they tell me that the flooding and the damage we're seeing here is worse than hurricane Ian. I grew up in England and I've never seen this. And you know, that's kind of the what I've heard people say, yeah, it's historic, it's an historic flood. That just was the rainstorm. This was worse than that. Because it came up pretty, pretty quick in Punicorta. I'm Joshua Cole, NBC2. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I, yeah. I'm having flashbacks. I don't even like seeing that I'll be honest with you. Go to the right season. I'm like, it was good. It's showing. Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I'm having flashbacks. I didn't even like seeing that. I'll be honest with you go in the RK season. I'm like it was good. It showed what our our our service did, but seeing those flooded streets just Hey, okay. Yeah. Charlotte County wants you to do that again. Please don't. Okay. So that slide on the bottom left there. They look terrified. The passengers. Oh, they loved it. They loved it. Listen, they were, they, you know, we went from Haleen to Milton. They were being returned home, right after being in the shelter during Hurricane Milton. They were just happy to be on a bus. So, you know, we did the evacuations for Milton. Much heavier need for transportation for this storm than Haleen. I think we transported over 500 folks to the shelters. And then of course, we turned many more home or to other safe locations following the storm. We did in a caravan type style, transit staff went out to the shelters and organized by area, West County, East County, Mid County, got them lined up and then loaded them on the bus as based on where they were going. The driver's did a great job, caravanning up, fill up the bus, you go, and we cleaned it out really quickly. So much so that assistant superintendent,. Dijardens wrote a letter of appreciation for how quickly we were able to turn them out. So again, like I said, you know, over 500 residents were provided transportation and 50 pets and we took them, whether they were created or not, we just get them there so you know following the storm we had folks that run the long-term shelter out at Babcock and we worked with the shelter managers out there to coordinate transportation for those folks a lot of them needed to get to their homes to meet adjusters get to medical appointments shopping whatever and and we were closely to ensure that they had that transportation. So what do people say about transit? We have a survey on board the bus. We launched a survey during the TDP process. And then there's been other surveys done. People find us reliable. They apparently really like the Charlotte R the Charlotte rides mobile lab because that sticks out to them it's community necessity. So I appreciate the opportunity to be here today provide this update I feel like even though it's been two years it is a blink of an eye and you know a lot's happened so I do appreciate that and I open up to any questions you might have. Any comments from the board? Great presentation. Appreciate it. Thank you. Good work. Last two years, a lot's been done in a lot of positive movement. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it already. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, great presentation. Thank you. The one I've been asking for quite a while. But finally came together. I appreciate that because I see as chair of the LCB, I see some of this stuff happening Over the last couple years. I've seen it especially they have coming in to play and I was just anxious to Get a hide in here and let you all see the same thing. It's really amazing on the riderships going up And what was again the with the average age? I think you said it really quickly. So our average age passenger is 55. Our average age mobile app user is 40. 40. And so outstanding. Hear that the younger folks are using this. At 55 year age came up again. I was actually a bad. I wish it was. I wish it was. It's not a protected class. Yeah. Great job. Appreciate all the help you and your team did during the hurricanes and evacuations. It's outstanding and what you're doing right now, of course, with community services relative to getting people out to the beach. So thank you very much. Thank you. Mr. Constance. Yeah, again, great presentation, great work. Really happy that you instituted the app and that it's been so successful. And do you think that the 40-age indicates a lot more workforce are utilizing the services? Definitely, I think it's workforce and then the younger folks using it to get to school, education, opportunities. We certainly have 84-year-old users but the other feature to having the mobile app is we're finding daughters and sons of our residents in Michigan or in the northern states. And they're able to book the trips for their parents. So they are ensuring they're getting to their medical appointments. And so we're finding that it's being used in that manner as well. And likewise, they can see when the bus is getting there. And so it's been a nice change. So I want to plant a district two seed. Since Taylor Road is so dangerous for pedestrians and bicyclists, is there a way to, I don't want to spend too much staff time, but look into the employers down on Jones Loop and kind of figure out where the folks are coming from, maybe the pines are coming up there and see if there is some way to say to them, hey, you can hit the app in the morning and a bunch of you can get on one shuttle and it will take you down there and at the end of the day it will shuttle you, I mean you've all got to plug in but there may be a way to coordinate and get a fairly full bus or you know run a run a micro circulator in the morning a couple of times and then in the evening a couple of times not scheduled but it want the but the software makes that happen so maybe there's a way to get them to wake up to realize that if they if they bicycle or walk not a good idea better to do this there's no cost and it's a lot safer. Just to tie into that as part of the TVP process right now we do the consultant is meeting with employers in the area for that exact reason. I just want to point out to that you know from the public transportation standpoint locking a bus to take a group of people to and from more like a charter service, but definitely something we look at from some sort of aspect. The circulator's a great idea. Absolutely. I mean, it'll start out with them just all using it. And it'll make it set up so that there's one pickup point. And there be some way to say that To say you know we know your doors here, but here's the pickup point and everybody congregates and gets on Yeah, great idea. Thank you Yeah, I know somebody using the app for employment on a regular basis and if they didn't have the app They wouldn't be able to get to and from work. They don't have the have the ability to access to a vehicle and things like that. So yeah, it's definitely helping people who don't have access to a vehicle. And you look at the cost for insurance gas and monthly payments. It's definitely an option for some and it works. Wonderful. Yeah, thank you for the update. Thank you for the feedback. Yeah. Oh, that. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, next we have Bachmann Track Update. This is Job. Good morning commissioners for the record-clare job assistant county administrator. Let me just pull the presentation up. And you have seen most of this presentation before. promise to come back and give you a little bit of an update on where we are with the Bagman Tract and get some feedback for you. So just as a reminder, this is the track that we're talking about. The Charlotte County piece is the two right-hand pieces as you're looking at this. The school board owns the left-hand piece closer to Yorkshire. And the triangular piece at the far end is a marked for utilities use. So you're really looking at that area that has that red outline in the center of the piece. The current status, this is just a reminder. Its future land use is high density residential. The zoning is planned development, if you remember several years ago, use the board, put a PD over this parcel with governmental uses and limited residential development as defined in the RFP that we developed at that time to go out for 600 units of affordable housing with an AMI of average of 80% or less. The density is, based density is zero, but you had allocated 600 of your incentive density units that are reserved for the county own portion of the property subject to the requirements of the incentive density program. So, that also talks about the AMI and everything like that. There are no direct water or sewer utilities to the site, although they are close. If you also remember, we had one point had agreed with the palladium project to run the utilities there. We haven't taken any action on that because there is no development at that site at the moment. Just to continue, it is in an ex zone, it's outside of the special put hazard area. The storm surge evacuation zone on the current map actually shows it as being in a sea yellow zone, but the updated maps that we do have but have not adopted, they actually show it in a green zone. in a green zone. So it is a high and dry parcel in this area. Most recent value estimates, you've seen this before, May 2022 has it at 8.4 million, which includes the incentive density units, the 600 density units. The estimate with no density from a few months ago is around 6.5 and that assumes commercial uses. So there's a lot of uncertainty as to the actual value of this property because of its PD is really government uses and then that very tied down residential uses. So the last board direction we got was to gain input from the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee and then bring it back to you for further input. We're also hearing that there is a potential project that's being proposed at this site that is more in lines than keeping with the palladium project. So it's one of the reasons to bring it back because we need some direction or not direction, but we need some input feedback from you and where to go. So looking at the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee and I'm sure Commissioner Taseo can expand on this, the overall sense from that group was that multiple smaller parcels are preferable for development of affordable housing. You've heard about that, particularly with the Westport parcel, you know, a smaller 5 acre parcel will do 70 to 100 units depending on storm water. Possible site for other priority county needs. Now I will say, as I've just said, this is high and dry. So it is a potential location. We've even talked about it as being a potential location for our HMGP project for a special need shelter because of the size and because of the location and access, everything like that. And I think the biggest thing from the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee was to master plan the site. So really look at what those uses could be, master plan the site, maybe even propose a master stone water plan, that type of thing, which would aid affordable housing developers because they would not have to put a stone water on that site. Possible options, this slide has not changed. You could go ahead and reassure the RFP that we put out for palladium for 600 units of affordable housing at 80% AMI. You could offer it for sale, utilizing standard bid procedure that would not include the density units and the property uses are limited. You could tell us to develop a new vision, an issue in RFP for the entire site, something similar to the palladium one, but maybe slightly different. You could do a master plan divide the property using some for affordable housing and some for future county needs or you could do nothing. Those options are all open to you but I would remind you that this is not in ACRA so in terms of actually offering this property for sale you don't have the same flexibility that you would if it's in a CRA. So you can't take a letter of interest in things like that. It has to go either through the RFP process or you have to put it out for essentially surplus sales. So just as you're talking through this and giving us some input, keep that in mind. And that's all I had for you. Mr. Chair, I'm sure it's correct. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A couple of things. Commissioner Constance brought up, you know, and we have talked about special needs shelter, sheltering for Charlotte County. We don't have any really other parcels that are available. That being said, I'd like to know what we think we could carve out for future use for that, but still get affordable housing on this property. I know that the school board property, the discussion with them is they are going to do a housing project on that property. As I've been told, I don't know that it's official vote yet, but I've been told that they're looking to do that, and that would be geared towards a workforce. So probably in the missing middle from 100 to 140 AMI, I would guess, I don't know exactly what they're doing there yet, but were you aware of any of that Claire's far as a school board? We haven't been officially notified of any projects. Yeah, I know that there's conversation over there about it. So it could be it could be a project for us Not theirs, but ours it would blend with that and yet still have the potential for some county use and special needs shelter for the future. And since we don't have any other place, really for it that I know of, I think it's something that we need to talk about. I don't wanna give up the units, but I also know that we could probably still get 600 on that property. That's it. Commissioner Dory. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, that's, I have a similar desire to look at this after, became aware that it's now an AZO, you know, whatever. It's own, yes. It's green, you know, it's like my place up there in deep gray. Not many of them anymore between the rivers. But that looks good. I mean, I think that makes sense. I think I'd also like to see if CCU has actually done a site plan for that strange triangular piece to see if, if there's any way the wider portion of that triangle could be you know I don't know where's the extension of the canal there by Harbor as it goes up to the north to Hillsboro whether you know that could be freed up at all you know I guess that's really what you know I have to be studied but I think the special needs facility if it's put on the the Easterly part of this site then opens up the wider portion to be you know Contiguous to the school board's property then if there's a housing project on their side it makes sense It could it could be some compatibility there so anyway, but I'm I'm all for doing some kind of a conceptual master plan on this Just to see what we how we should divide it up And do it you're next. Thank you sir. Yeah, gotta reach How many acres is this that we control? We have about 40 acres out there that includes the triangular piece at the top So I think it's about 32 acres. That's that middle section. So 40 including the utilities total. Yes, yes. So 32. So yeah, I mean, I think I appreciate Mr. Tricks doubling down on the special needs shelter. And I think that's something that, you know, now that we have updated information and now that we've had pretty major flooding events, we've realized this is probably gonna be a nice safeguard, stopgap, you know, safety ability. And I know everybody's still focusing on housing, but, you know, I'm also thinking for flexibility reasons if the golf course doesn't pan out, and we still to go with sport courts specifically like a big indoor volleyball or some of those things that were proposed, that could also be a big shelter building. So this could be a special needs and a major shelter for Charlotte County which we lack. So I'm just throwing that on the table too. Thanks, sir. Mr. George know, there's always some other options. If you want to be a little more creative, a while back we had some informal discussions with the fairground people, which are located across from the sports park. They had expressed the interest of exploring the possibility of maybe a swap with the fairground parcel here, which I'm not sure of the values, I'm not sure it's worth what the Bachman property is and dollars and cents, there may be hefty some adjustments, but there be a lot of pluses on both sides, if it's something we'd want to consider. The fairgrounds would like that location because it would be very close to the interstate, which they feel strongly would enlarge the services and what they're able to provide for the community and because they sort of obviously live in it in size. Also, what that would do because of the elevation, and we all, even through this out as a concept, that the large facility, if it were ever to be there, would certainly be an excellent location for a shelter, which we desperately need at a high and dry place in the county because we're so limited. That's another possibility. That would give us an opportunity to have the property that's the fairgrounds now across from the sports park. And there's no defined uses for that. But I think it's a concept that might be of interest to the fairgrounds that people have some interest and by nature of the state and existing funding there in a pretty good position at almost any time to be able to come up with a new fairgrounds from their point of view the thing that I'm not not sure of of how the numbers work what utilization or what real benefit we would have to having the, the fairground site, and they'd also be acceptable to having housing on part of that of some kind. So they were pretty flexible, but it was very informal. There were just some ideas that thrown out, but at the time it was looking like we had a real possibility of affordable housing there, so no one pushed it. But it's an idea you may want to think about, there may be some opportunities. Thank you. Thank you, sir. I guess I'll weigh in now. Yeah, I agree on the, you know, dividing the property for affordable housing and future county needs for that shelter. Again, that plating group is, was before we had all the storms and I'm looking through a different prism now on the future Charlotte County and the fact that this has moved into a green zone makes it even more appealing to me for some type of mixed use. But something you said about the school board, so this is interesting. If that is true, I would certainly want to offer potentially looking at what they're proposing. If this comes to be, I believe the number for utility extension was about 1.2 million is what we had something in that range. The school is going to have to contend with that. If they're going to have to bring utilities into this. And I certainly wouldn't mind doing some type of proportion. It's share where we size the pipes and help offset those costs using money from their bucket, money from our bucket. Because at some point, if we go it alone, we're going to have to do the line. I mean, whoever hooks up is gonna have to pay their fees, but understanding what they're doing, we can design the utility extension accordingly. So if there's hundreds of units going in there, if we're gonna maybe cut from 600 units to 300 units, so we have land left over for a special needs shelter. So yeah, I would like to explore all of those opportunities because utility was a big expense. So I don't know if my comment would be, I guess we can't give direction or we can at least suggest that I'd like to reach out to the school and understand what's going on there and see how it would fit with this property. Absolutely. We could do that. Just to add to that, the PD actually covers the entire site. It's a joint PD between us and the school board. Anything the school board needs to do, it would have to be that collaboration so we can absolutely have those conversations. Yeah, because I'm thinking of a master stormwater site. If we understand what they're doing and what we want to do, you know, we do that master site plan and we look at all those elements and figure out where the green space is going to be, how you stack the site. So, you know, I think it goes back to one of the other suggestions about a master site plan. So I think that would be key to look at it maybe as a joint project. Commissioner Dordy? Yeah, that's exactly where I was heading. Basically, if administration can get with the school board and find out really what they plan on doing. Then if that's the case, if they plan on putting residential to some sort there apartments, then it makes sense for us to put, if we're going to do whatever portion of our property that's going to be affordable housing or workforce housing, whatever we may want to designate it, then it obviously would be the western part of that site. And then we could structure common master stormwater facility, we could do a lot and really need stuff that way. Then the special needs, and maybe there is a recreational building of some sort that there might be enough land on the east end of this thing against the the CCU parcel that might make sense. It will transition fairly nicely. But I think once you find that outhactor, you come back to us and let us know if you're ready to pull the trigger on doing a master's site plan. I think you to find out first of all what the school board's doing and then then we can pull the trigger on some kind of master site plan. Yeah and I think ownership is going to be important. You know how does it is the school board going to own this and operate this? I bet that I don't know for some type of workforce housing and are we going to carve this up, put it out for RFP on the affordable housing side, and then we maintain the shelter side, and if there's shared facilities, we have to account for all of that based on ownership. So we're gonna have to understand the mechanics of those things when we master site plan this. Well, we'll have to have an agreement definitely. Especially if you have master shared infrastructure. Yes, and who's owning what exactly who's going to stay on those before. Yeah, okay. Okay. Any other comments? No, no, that's great. I've got my much. No, thank you. Okay. Okay. We are going to move on to comments, Mr. Flores. None today. Thank you. Okay. Mrs. Nolorton. I only have one comment and I wanted to welcome a member of the audience. We have here today Marie Miss Gardi who's a legal intern on borrow from emergency management. Okay. So she'll be spending the day with you today. That's all I have. Well, welcome to the chamber today and yeah, thank you. Okay, we will start to my right, Commissioner Dordy. I'm all set, sir. Thank you. Commissioner Consons. Nothing sir, thank you. Mr. Trouac. See this afternoon. Mr. Dordy. Nothing. And I have nothing, gentlemen. We've completed our, no. I'm stopping. I think I may have some. Wait a minute. We made an newest thing that and Ben's talked about this before, but I'm going to try to get him on a three-way call with this gentleman, but contractors that put roofs back on after hurricane, e-and-damage, and they don't get the underlayment inspected. And then, so yeah, maybe you can chime in on this bill. But then when the underlayment inspected, then the roof gets put on, they get the final from Charlotte County and then they go to close on the cell the house and they say, well, there's no, the roof hasn't actually been fully inspected. And a lot of times it's up to the contractor to either hire an engineer or get certification and that piece of the puzzle is not there but it's not on Charlotte County to do that or is it? I'm trying to understand the process because- Yeah, no, it's the responsibility of the contractor to get the proper inspections. And when you have these people come in from all over the country, after a storm, I got a phone call from a guy who described how they were putting his underlimate down. I said, tell them to stop. They're doing it incorrectly. They're going to have to tear it off and redo it, which they did, but they were from Texas. And it was not going to fail on him. Unfortunately, and it'll bends up here to talk about it. But it is on the contractor to make sure the proper inspections are called, and if they don't call for them, the only way to get somebody to check it is invasive. Right. That's the only way. You got to pull off shingles or tiles or metal to see what the underlayment looks like. Not inexpensive. Right. I mean, fortunately, if it was done correctly, They only have to pull off a representative portion, but they have to inspect and say, yeah, it looks correct, we're good, we can certify this. But if they pull it off and it's wrong, there's a big problem. So. If it's a dry and in progress inspection, but anyway, Ben, go ahead. Ben Bailey, Community Development Director. Yes, unfortunately, this is a result of when we have a lot of contractors from outside the county, outside the state, trying to come into work here. Where gets out misinformation that you don't need permits and stuff happens. Yes, when I first came here, we were still dealing with Hurricane Charlie with permits and trying to close those out. So that was 10 years later. But so yes, we're gonna be dealing with these for I'm sure several years Especially when people try to sell their homes and these pop up as either expired permits or no permits at all Well, and that's exactly the issue is that and I tried to explain to folks It's not on the county because the county will look and do a final inspection but it's really up to the contractor to make sure that everything's been done correctly and they're now looking at us saying you're holding everything up and no you need to go back to the contractor good luck trying to find them but unfortunately it's on the current owner to get it figured out or they're not going to get their property sold but it was worth bringing it up again why we've spoken about this at least a couple of times before this but it's it's still out there so I more the more information the better. Mr. Dordy. Yeah my memory I too roof one in Northport the one in Deep Creek they got it dried in they could only put like 50% of the shingles down before you guys had to come out look at that right. Right Typically we want to dry in, you know, done, we'll do the dry in inspection and they can start on putting the shingles or whatever other materials. They don't want the kit cover more than 50 percent. 50 percent. Then he certifies the the rougher actually certifies that he did it right. Correct. It's an after-day. because they have the re-nailing as well. So they're sort of rang that they've re-nailed it according to code as well. So yes, it will probably be an issue here for... because you have the re-nailing as well so they're sort of having that they've re-nailed it according to code as well. So yes, it will probably be an issue here for several years unfortunately. Do you have any more comments? Sir, or can we go? Can I adjourn? You're adjourned. OK, this meeting.