Thank you. Thank you. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the May 13th, 2025, Howard County, alcohol beverage hearing board meeting. Well, do we have a previous minutes to approve? Yes. March 25th. Yeah, here. So the first matter before us is for the board members to approve the March 25th, 2025 minutes. Have the board members reviewed the minutes? Yes. All right. Do you have a motion I motion that we accept the minutes of March 25th. All right, second. Thank you. Chair Chen. Yes. Mr. Coleman. Yes. Mr. Hunt. Mr. Hunt. Oh, yes. Here the first one which is a new Class B beer one and liquor seven day license application for first watch restaurants in treating as first watch in the names of Christa Nicole Wagner and Christopher Tomaso and Jay while cis, cis that. Yes, Mr. Chairman, all of the documents on fire are incorporated by reference. Thank you. So is online, right? Yes, Mr. Tracker goes to the attorney for them, representing them, and she is online. Okay. As well as all three applicants. Okay. Good evening, Mr. Chair, commissioners, Lee and Shrek and Goss, we're Mr. Mallorna McLean and Reed here on behalf of First Watch. And as Ms. Berg indicated also, all joining us are the three applicants. And there's also a fourth gentleman, Christopher Humphries, is joining us. He is the regional vice president for First Watch restaurants. Do you have an opening council? Just with like the brief opening, this location has been open in your county since 2018 and we are moving forward with applying for this beer wine and liquor license. It just becomes an accommodation to the guests. I can tell you that first watch typically only does about 5% in alcohol sales throughout the country with their restaurants. So this is basically just as an accommodation to the guests that they currently have. So with that, I will leave it up to you as to how you want me to proceed. If you don't ready to go ahead and start interviewing and qualifying the witnesses. Yes, let's start with the first witness. Thank you. I will start with Mr. Christopher Tomaso. All right. Good evening. I miss. The we need to square them in. Yeah. Individual are we going to start them in as a group. Let's do it in the group. So Mr. Sir, Thomas, can you raise your right hand? Do you promise that the testimony that you're going to give today will be the choose, whole choose nothing but the choose? I do. Thank you. Well, please save your name and address. Christopher Tomaso, 7467 Cabbage Palm Courts, Sarasota, Florida, 34241. Okay, thank you. The second witness is... Where is the... They're all on there. Oh, okay. All right. Miss Wagner. Yes sir. Yes. Please raise your right hand. Do you promise that the test money that you're going to give today will be the choose hold choose nothing but the choose. I do. Okay Please state your name and address. Crystal Wagner, 3-0-0-4, Maryland Avenue. Health work. choose. I do. Okay please state your name and address. Crystal Magnar, 304 Maryland Avenue, Healthort, Maryland 21227. Thank you. And also Jay Wazez. Sorry about that. That's what everyone does. Please raise your right hand. Do you promise that the testimony that you're going to give today will be the choose, hold, choose nothing but the choose? I do. Please state your name and address. J. Walsack. Address is 16027. Top sale, Terrace would ranch Florida 3 4 2 2 2. Thank you. Council. Thank you very much. Mr. Chamasso can you please confirm that none of your personal information has changed since the time we filed this application. I can confirm that yes. No felony convictions or violations of the alcoholic beverage laws or gambling laws. That's correct. And you serve as the president and chief executive officer for first watch restaurant scene correct? Yes. And can you please describe for the board the first watch restaurant concept in case they've never been there before? Sure. We're at breakfast brunch and lunch restaurant. We are close to 600 restaurants in 32 states We have been around for over 40 years and we're the fastest growing full-service restaurant company in America So we're known for our healthy options and and unique dishes We are also known for not having heat lamps deep fryer's or microwaves in our trance. We make everything fresh to order and we've been enjoying our growth in your area for quite some time. Thank you very much. Mr. Jamass, you also hold seven other first watch licenses in the state of Maryland. Is that correct? Yes. And they have had no violations. None of them have been suspended or revoked. Correct. Very much. And do you believe that the granting this license will any had any adverse impact on the neighborhood or the surrounding area? No, I don't. And have you received a copy of the sports rules and regulations? Yes. And you understand that as a licensee, although you live in the state of Florida, you would have to answer this to this board Should any violations occur at this restaurant? I do and you agree to accept those responsibilities. I do Thank you very much. I have no further questions of Mr. Tomasso at this time I don't know if the board wants to take questions of them individually or if you want me to go through the testimony of each of them and then questions at the end It's up to you. Chair. Let's, why don't you just interview all of them then we ask questions. Thank you very much. Next up is Mr. J. Wolzak. Mr. Wolzak, has any of your personal information changed since the time we filed this application? No, it has not. No felony convictions or violations of the alcoholic beverage laws are gambling laws No And you currently serve as the chief legal officer general counsel and secretary of first-watch restaurants ink I do And you also are a licensee on those seven licenses here in the state of Maryland set correct That is correct and you also can confirm that there have been no violations or suspensions or revocations of those licenses I can confirm that yes And you also have received a copy of this board's rules and regulations. I have. And you want to understand that as a licensee, you two have the answer for this report. Can any violations occur at the restaurant here in Maryland? Yes, I understand that. Thank you very much. I have no further questions of Mr. Bullsack at this time. So lastly, we have have I'm sorry. I think it was somebody in the background online. Okay thank you very much. The last witness, the last applicant we have this evening is Crystal Wagner. She is the woman of the hour. She is the operations manager for this location. Ms. Wagner, can you please confirm for the board that none of your personal information has changed since the time we filed this application? Nothing has changed, ma'am. No felony convictions or violations of the alcoholic beverage laws are gambling laws. No, ma'am. And you are a compliance officer for First Watch Restaurants Inc. correct? Yes, ma'am. On top of your role is the front of the house manager for at the restaurant? Yes, ma'am. And how much time do you spend a week at this location? I spend five days a week, 50 to 55 hours there. And is my understanding correct that you have about eight years of experience in the restaurant industry? Yes, ma'am. You were hired as a server for first watch two and a half years ago and it worked your way up to the operations manager. Yes, ma'am. I said very impressive. Thank you. You've also, you've had experience at other restaurants in the state of Maryland as well, correct? Yes, ma'am. And you are alcohol awareness certified through the state food safety program? Yes. And how many employees work at this restaurant? 32. and of those employees, how many will be involved in the Sailor's Service of Alcohol? 19, including the managers, hosts and servers. And what type of alcohol awareness training do your employees go through? So we utilize the state food safety for state approved training. They also have internal training through the first watch alcohol policy. We're able to track certifications and training and monitor exploration dates through the virtual learning system. And then the first watch alcohol policies are pretty comprehensive programs, that's correct? Yes, ma'am, it's very long. And what will be the locations carding policy? So we would ID every single person who orders an alcoholic beverage. Any out-of-state IDs should be ran by a manager on duty. I'm sorry. It's okay. You also utilize the ID checking guide. Is that Yes, ma'am. Yep. We will have that. Can you please tell the board what steps are taken through your training to ensure that underage individuals are not served alcohol? We thoroughly check IDs, making sure that the physical features match up with the ID that was handed to us. And like I said, any out of state IDs will be handed to a manager just to be sure. And we will double check with the ID certification. The book. I'm sorry. I cannot remember what it's called. I'm sorry. It's the ID checking guide. You're fine. ID checking guide. We will validate it through the ID checking guide. And you also have five tables on outdoor patio correct? And can you please tell the board how the patio will be monitored to ensure that alcohol is not being removed from the patio or handed off to other people? So our patio has fire tables and is surrounded by a fence. There is one door that leads out to the patio and one exit within the patio. There are typically two servers assigned to the outdoor patio during the weekends and up to five servers assigned on weekends. Managers, servers, and hosts take responsibility for always monitoring the patio to ensure that alcoholic beverages do not leave the patio area. All guests must see either the host or hostess to be seated on the patio and guests also have to come inside to check out what the host is well after they're finished their meal. Thank you very much for that and can you please confirm for the board what your hours of operation are? 70m to 230d. And you also have received a copy of this board's rules and regulations. Yes, ma'am. And you understand that as the resident licensee, you are the main point of contact for this board. Yes, ma'am. And you understand that you would have to appear before this board for any violations that may occur at your restaurant. Yes. Mr. Chair, commissioners, I have no further questions of the applicants. I turn it over to you. Thank you. I think you have asked some of the questions that I have in mind. You may... against I turn it over to you. Thank you. I think you have asked some of the questions that I have in mind. You mentioned there are currently six locations in Maryland to have the alcohol license. How many locations in total in Maryland? We have 16 total, then there's seven that are licensed as of today. Okay, so it's a seven, not six. Correct, seven that are licensed. Okay. All right. I think I don't have any further questions. How do you remember? Yeah, just a couple real quick. Just to confer because it was kind of rapid fire with this wagged there. So what are the hours of operations again? Hours of operation are 7 to 230 daily. Daily, okay. Great. Thank you very much. And this is really to anybody. So you have seven, you have seven of your 60 locations or licenses to serve alcohol. How long have they been licensed? Leandee, you know, when we got the first one. I was gonna say it's probably been, I think the first one was like four years ago. I'd have to go back and check my records to be exactly. I'm pretty sure it was four years ago. They started out in Prince with two in Prince George's County. Then there's three in Montgomery County and two in Anorondo County. And this would be the first in Howard. That is correct. Okay. Are there other locations in Howard or is this the only Howard location? I don't know the answer to that. It's the only Howard County location. That's what I live down in Laurel. I know there's one over in the town center. So I'm from it. I think that's considered Montgomery County. Ashes Prince George is. It's the shortest county. Yes, the Laurel Townsend. I know Laurel's funny, they're in four counties. I think my government might have finally got rid of Laurel, but at least the Laurel. Because the Montgomery County section was the size of a football field, I think. But anyway, my geography lesson, all the questions I had this could share. Thanks. The one at the... Thanks. Thanks. The one that's a technical question is probably for staff, but it's the notarized forms in places were scratched out from They had Florida and they scratched how they put Maryland, but they didn't put it in all places is that Gonna cause an issue? I don't see that being an issue. Okay. And then the other one is, Ms. Wagner spoke about the training program. Is that specifically tailored to Maryland laws or is it general corporate training? I believe it's general corporate training with a with an emphasis on county rules, but mainly it's a general corporate training, but it is very comprehensive and very thorough. But there are whatever specifics would be unique to Maryland would be included. Yes. Thank you. And again, on the hours, that's 230 PM. Correct. Okay. That's all ahead. Thank you. Miss Kim, do you have any questions? I don't have any questions, but you know, opening seven AM to 30 I don't think why they serve I call without the ring. I can answer that we it's brunch cocktail so bloody Mary. things like that. Okay, that was my question. Okay, thank you. Now I think we are entering into deliberation. I think this is, in my opinion, it's a straightforward case. Their hours will end at 2.30, and they have internal guidelines that pretty comprehensive. So I don't see any issues here. I second. I agree. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Same. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree. I think this is a very complete application. I think I like the idea of their training program sounds pretty comprehensive, which I think is great. I think only 5% of their sales is alcohol, I think, that this is a no-brainer. I think we just say yes to this. Yeah it's clear they know how to do this and they've got a process that works. It's not a new process. It's been you know tested elsewhere you know throughout the state state. This would be I guess number eight in terms of license facilities. Yeah, I think these folks have it pretty well in hand. No issues on my side. Okay, thank you. Do we have a motion? Sure. I move that we approve the class B, beer, wine, and liquor, seven day license, in the name of First Watch restaurants, incorporated trading as First Watch, located at 6478, Dovon Center, Ways, We-300, Columbia, Maryland, 21045. Nice second. Chair Chen. Yes. Mr. Coleman. Yes. Mr. Hunt. Yes. Ms. Johnson. Yes. Ms. Kim. Yes. Council, do your clients wait or are I to an appeal? Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Take care. Hi. Okay. So now we move to the second case which is the application for transfer of a class A, B, R1, and the liquor. BWLT, seven day off sale license. The application is from UNBE Inc, treating as the old time liquors in the name of. Karish, Karishan Palmer. Mr. sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm before you has been the manager of this location since 2009. He is alcohol awareness certified. He has never had a violation ever, and there has been no violation of this unit since he's been the manager. In addition to himself, his wife, who's sitting back, there also works in the liquor store, along with two other part-time individuals, all of whom are alcohol awareness certified. The store opens at 10 o'clock in the morning and closes at nine, except on Sundays, when it's 10 to seven. My client works six days a week, every week, and seven days a week often. This is his full-time soul occupation. He understands that at all times that the business is open to the public, he has to have somebody on the premises that's alcohol-aware and is certified. He, all of his employees, he'll be glad to know, live in Harrod County. They contribute to the community. Anytime a police officer or a school comes and wants something, they make sure that they contribute back. The only downside is there is no recycling program, but that's because the landlord has not provided this space for that. With that is the backdrop, just a few qualification questions if I could. Was he sworn in? Yes. Oh I'm sorry. Got myself lost there. Sir, you filed an application with this board. I need to swear him in. Oh I'm sorry. I apologize. Yeah Mr. Sharp, can you raise your right hand? Do you promise that the testimony that you're going to give today will be the choose? Ho choose nothing but the choose? I do. Please state your name and address. The Jess Kumar Sa, 29-11, New Rover Road, West Friendship, Maryland, 2794. Thank you. And sir, you filed an application with this border. We filed an application with this board on your behalf, correct? Yes. And all of the information contained in the application remains true and correct as you appear before the board this evening. Yes. And you heard me make a number of representations to the board, are all of those representations true and accurate? It is. Yes. And Mr. Chairman, that would be our case. Feel free to ask questions. Mr. Shaw, may I ask you why the transfer? So the current owner is getting ready to retire or I don't know what's the plan but I got the opportunity so I've been doing this so long at that store so this is the perfect opportunity for me. Okay. How is the business? Business is good. Yeah. Okay. I don't have any other questions. So there hasn't been any liquor violations in the years that you've been? No. Okay, great. Not a single. I'd love to hear that. How do you all validate the IDs? I'm just interested. So we have a scanner. All you do. And we scan. The other thing we do is we card everybody in the group. So if three people comes, all we card everybody, even if they are not buying. We just don't card like only people who is buying or paying. Okay. Are you pretty close to the high school? Are you near the high school? Not pretty close. It's about two and a half miles, three months. OK, you're on that close. Well, thank you. That's, I'd like to hear another scare. That's good. OK. I want to make the question. Other members, do you have any questions? No, I don't have a question. I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. You know You've been there. You've been to manage for quite a while. How long has the business been there? Business been there in a current ownership since 2007. 2007? Thank you. I'm just curious. I think the address is, is Alica City. When I look at the map, it seems to be the tunnel. So Apple Maps says it's Dayton. Google Maps says it's Glenelk, our Ellicott City. Our county planning and zoning says it's Glenelk. USPS says it's Ellicott City. So So it's literally a last building of Alicat City. So we go by the USPS because we need to get the mails. I think that's a fair answer. Okay. Yeah. I almost start to doubt my kind of geography because I said, you know, the Trodolfias in... Yeah, the other three sides of that circle is Gleinell. Yeah. Okay. Miss Kim do you have other questions? Yes. I just wanted to suggest that if you can donation to sports authority to school because I have two kids going to school and then graduated already and then still have high school students if you can donate or somehow you can something to do schools. That would be great. Any particular, like Glandin High School you're talking about? Yes, Mount Hebron. Oh, Mount Hebron. I think I did it a couple of years ago. But it's always the case that whenever somebody comes, they never go empty handed. So, yeah, if somebody requests, then we can definitely do it. If you can do something for the schools and churches and something like that. Sure. Yeah. I have like a list of the whole thing that throughout the my management, I did it in the county. But if somebody approaches us, we always donate something. They never go, we never say no. Yes. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Shaw. I guess we don't have other questions than we will go into the library. Yeah. I think this is a, I have to say even more straight forward case so I have no problem. This Carter was right. This is one of the easiest we've had in the long time. Every once in a while it actually works. Isn't it nice? I think it's very nice to have a transfer where somebody knows the business already. Yes. You know, like you've been there for so long, about 16 years. So and the people that you're working with all are staying. Yes. Yeah, see, that's what you really want when there's a transfer, I think. So I think this is straight forward and a very nice nice License to me to provide Thank you. Yeah, I agree that it's a great story to your your point is Johnson that somebody who's worked their way up from You know being at the store of being a manager of the store and get any opportunity to you know Make it make it their own. I guess it's a great story to tell. So, yeah, there's certainly no doubt that this new owner is familiar with the place and no violations in what, 16 years? I think they're good. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Do we have a motion? I move that we grant a Class A beer wine and liquor license to UMBEE training as old-time I'm Lickers in the name of Slarri Kourin's Armour. No, no, I think it's two. Two. Second line. Oh, second one. Second line. Oh, second line. Second line. Oh, second line. Sorry. Sorry, two. There's more ashore at 1,3589, Tredelphia Road, Ellicott City, Maryland. Oh, second. Tert Chen. Yes. Mr. Coleman. Yes. Mr. Hunt. Yes. Mr. Johnson. Yes. Miss Kim. Yes. Ms. Carter, does your claim wait for the right to appeal? Absolutely. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank's a pleasure, Mr. Shaw. Thank you. Now we move to the third case, which is the transfer of a class B, B, R1, and Likr, seven-day license from SushiQ, IOC, treating SushiQ to YJLK in treating Sushi Q LLC treating S sushi Q to YJ LK ink treating us sushi Q Abraham Hartle behalf the applicant chairman good to see you wish nurse Welcome, Mr. Chair all the documents on fire and corporate by reference Mr. Chairman I pro'd prefer. Yes, please. Thank you. I'm not sure if the board's had a chance to review the application. The application is for an in-location restaurant transfer. My client has an experienced restaurant operator. Currently has a different business nearby that does not have a liquor license. It operates mostly during the day and is not open on Saturdays and Sundays. With regards to the location and question, their current hours are 11 to 10 Sunday through Thursday, and they anticipate Friday and Saturday from 11 to 11 or alcohol sales. They anticipate about 12 employees being on staff. They're gonna have anyone who handles alcohol, so probably not the kitchen staff being alcohol awareness certified. Having spoken to my client about the other business that he operates and that being a concern of mine, as well as his, he anticipates being at this location basically every waking moment that it's open. Probably for the first few months. And as time goes by bringing on trains managers, again, they will also be alcohol awareness certified. We anticipate several people at all times being alcohol awareness certified on staff, as well as a manager at all times. We did do a review of the background, and I'm not sure if the board caught it, I do apologize. My client did have a liquor store, I believe, in the city and they did have an underage service. It's one of the employees served at Cadet. This was back and I think 13 or 14. The operations are significantly different. He's got over a decade more experience. We plan to card anybody who comes in who looks under,, I'm gonna say 45, that way I'm covered and get carded, which makes me feel better every time I go to a restaurant and do. But it is something that we do take serious. Again, I wasn't sure if that was something that had made it to the board's attention. We didn't want to not bring that forward. It's something that happened. Again, it was over a decade ago. We don't anticipate it being sushi restaurants tend not to be havens for underage drinking. That being said, we do take it serious and we'll plan to card, again everyone under 45. Until I'm 45, then just keep moving it up. It's a small establishment. Again, my client has significant experience. We do plan to recycle where possible. My client does plan to give back to the community and contribute to charitable causes in the area when requested. And certainly he's going to seek out causes that are relevant to his interest. But again, any high schools or local ball teams that come by, he plan to help out. If the board has any questions, we'd be happy to address them at this time. He is alcohol awareness certified and again he does point to be on premises for the foreseeable future. I did speak to him and I certainly can ask if we'd like to swear him in. None of his personal information has changed on the application since it was filed and he is familiar with the rules of the Howard County liquor board. Okay, thank you. I'd like to ask where he means. So, please. We can ask questions. Mr. Kim, can you raise your right hand? Do you promise that the testimony that you're gonna give today will be the choose, hold choose, nothing but the choose? I do. Okay, please state your name and address. Eugene Kim, 2914 Sarah Sura Court, Helikas Himeralin, 21042. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kim. So I, Mr. Hurtle said you are currently working at two other locations. Atrin, Cafe, and Hungry Jo's Hot Chicken. I only have atrin cafe right now. So the other business. So also you have purchased this business, right? Yes. And you're planning to spend full time in this location. What's going to happen to the other location? The other locations, like when you open five days a week and operate by manager, full-time manager and a full manager as well. So I stopped by like a drive mile, it's like a one hour. So I stopped by like three, four times a week. Okay. So how many times do you plan to spend at this location? The first couple of months is probably, I'm going to be there probably almost seven days a week until I feel out of the old business running. and even though they have full time things as well, I'm gonna unlike most of my time span up there until everything's gonna settle down. Okay. That's the A-Trim Cafe has license, alcohol license, no. That's Delhi. Okay. So for this location, the staff members, do you have any plans for them to change or to keep them, how many of them have alcohol license? I know you, you, you already certified, right? Yes. What about the other staff members at this social queue location? Yeah, I'm going to invite the instructor and I'm going to have all the flow members get in a certified. Okay. When do you plan to do that? Yeah, as soon as I take over the business. When do you plan to take over the business? I haven't decided because after, you know, after the transfer I can decide the exact date with the seller, but it should be hopefully this month. You and my partner, Mr. Chair, one of the questions you asked was that he already bought this business and just to be clear, we have not purchased this business. There's a contract for the purchase. The closing will be scheduled in a couple of weeks. There's a rule in Howard County that actually bars us from buying it before we've had approval. So that closing will occur hopefully in May at which point after that closing he would take over. We think we have to have a written decision from the board which takes about a month before the license can actually shift to him as well. Okay. That's nice to know. What will be your role at this new restaurant? Are you the chef? Are you the manager? I'm going to be the manager. You're going to be the manager? Yes. So, and you said you'll be there full time? Yes. And I'm also going to be on the chef as well, because I'm always whenever I take over any business, I'm learning everything from the bottom to management. But I'm going to be the manager. You're going to be the manager? Yes. What, I don't know if I missed this. What percentage of your business will be alcohol? And what type of alcohol will you be serving? Mostly, like, really a bit of sake and beer, because it's just like citrus from. So what do you think your percentage of alcohol will be? Like, maximum 5%. Yeah. 5% of sales. No more than 5%. 5% of your sales. I guess like 3%. Maybe. Mr. Kim, I don't know if this was made clear, but are you retaining the staff that's currently employed at the Sushikula location? Oh, yeah, we all. Yeah, but yeah, because I don't because I didn't take over business yet, but right now I'm planning to take over the staff. Okay. That was my next question. Okay, just something. Back to the other places that state you work. Are you the owner of those places or what is your role? Do you have a financial interest in those other places? No, it's Elie. The VATrium Cafe. Yes. He's the owner of the office. He's the owner that. And how about the angry Joe's chicken? No, he sold that. He sold that. OK. Thank you. OK. Miss Kim. So he only owns one other place. And then he's going to take over the certificate, right? Correct. He doesn't have two other cases, right? I mean, other business. As of today, it's only one. Just one. Just one, right? OK. That'll be really helpful. Correct. Just the one. Just one. OK. And just to clarify, the atrium cafe is in an office park, so it's a place that even if it was doing really, really great, it's not going to expand to evening hours because nobody's there after 5 o'clock and nobody's really eating after 3 at the office park. That's good to know. Do you have any plans on hiring another manager so that when you're not there and you're at the other restaurant that they would fill your role? Yeah, both restaurants have a very good manager right now, but the The CQ I was told like the managers doing very great job So they have a manager now that you're gonna keep. Yes. Okay. That Are you going to change the menu or improve on the menu? Not at this moment. The reason I laughed, Chairman, is just because it's a tough question. No one ever wants to insult a seller and say that they're going to do anything better or different. I think that everyone wants to do better. It's very delicate. Yeah, maybe in the future. I have to ask another question, which is, are you going to change the name? Because normally, when you own or take over, the restaurant, they're going to change the name. Yeah, I'm trying to keep the name, because they're doing business for over 13 years. They're very kind. Everybody knows the name, so popular now, so I don't need to change the name at this moment. All right, I don't have other questions. Just one question, I just want to make sure I'm clear on something. So in terms of the current staff, include the current manager, I think you were saying you're gonna get them trained. So, Mr. Cam? Yes, so just to reiterate, my understanding is that he's gonna keep the existing staff so there'll be less interruptions and less operational challenges. The goal is to get a trainer to come in and retrain everyone who has been trained or trained people who have not been trained So that the staff is freshen up to date on alcohol awareness My anticipation is to also do some sort of food safety as well for the kitchen staff just to get everyone but I got up So is that being that none of them are none of those individuals to certify? The issue at the moment is we're uncertain as to the staff's training. We anticipate some of them are, some of them are not. The goal would just be to get everyone current so that they've got four years before they would need to be retrained again. OK. That's all questions I have, Mr. Chair. OK. I think we have asked all the questions that we have. Now I suggest we go into deliberation. To me, I think Mr. Kim is experienced at the restaurant owner and he's taking on this new place and he has a good plan for it. He's not going to change the staff members and he's going to train to bring them all to update on the awareness license front. So I'm fine with the application. Any other comments? Yes, I think this is going to be a good place for our Kaur Kowni and Sushikyu. And I've been there once, but yours could be experienced being there. And I think Mr. Ki is being a good put show to run the business. I feel like I recognize him once, but I agree with Mr. Kim. Yeah, I would say the same. I mean, this is an existing business. So, you know, I don't think the record showed any issues with the business currently. So, you know, it's not like Mr. Kim has taken over business that has had issues themselves, at least by what my reading was of the following record, et cetera. So, and to the chair's point, his commitment to making sure everybody is up to date on training is positive. So, no issues here. I think that this is, this application is well put together. And I think that he's proved that he's got a good point in and I think this will be great. Okay, so with all the positive comments, do I have a motion? Oh sure. Oh, so great. Go ahead. Oh, please miss kit. I've already had mine. What? Oh, sure. Oh, so great. Go ahead. No, please, Ms. Kim. I've already had mine. Okay. I moved the class A beer wine liquor. And today's obsidian license, we have the ink to old time liquor to, uh, you're in the wrong one. It's, sorry. Sushik Sorry. Sujikiu. Sujikiu. I'm sorry. Class beer, wine, liquor, seven day license, YJLK, Inc. 2, 2, 2, 2, Ujun came, at Bridge Maryland 2105. I second I will second. Oh, sorry. Uh, Chair Chen. 75. I second I will second. Sorry. Chair Chen yes, Mr. Coleman. Yes, Mr. Hunt. Yes, Miss Johnson. Yes, Miss Kim. Yes, Council does your claim. We've been really good. Thank you. Thank you again, Mr. Shen. Okay. Congratulations. Thank you commissioners. Oh congratulations. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you again Mr. Shen. Okay, congratulations. Thank you commissioners. Oh congratulations. Oh Congratulations tonight. Good luck Now we move to the the last case of today Which is the new shopping mall Plaza beer wine and the liquor seven-day license for Brookfield properties retail ink treating as the mall in Columbia. Mr. Chair, with the other files, all the documents on record are incorporated by reference. I'll get, the steam members of the board. My name is Evan Feldman. Sorry. Okay, thank you. Good evening. Members of the board, my name is Evan Feldman. I'm here on behalf of the applicant Brookfield Properties Retail Inc. Known as the Mall in Columbia. And the applications and the names of, excuse me, Rita Kegandha Jones, who is a designated resident agent, Brian McCarthy and Adam Tritt. One housekeeping note in the agenda, there's an additional name, Kathleen Marie Cortis, but we removed her from the application because we were limited to having three individuals on the application. And the application is for a new shopping mall, Plaza, Beer Wine, and liquor, sevenday license. It's for approximately 96,000 square foot designated outdoor space that will be contiguous to the participating restaurants in the mall, each of which have already issued class B liquor licenses and would vend alcoholic beverages within their businesses for consumption within the outdoor defined area from 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. seven days a week at the property located at one zero three zero zero little bit of tuxen parkway, Columbia Maryland known as the mall in Columbia. I will note that this is the first time an application has been sought under this subject statute, 23 hyphen 106.1 of the alcohol beverages article of the annotated code of Maryland that was enacted in 2022. The mall would like to be granted the alcoholic beverage consumption license that will allow customers and other community members of legal age and fit condition to possess, carry and consume alcoholic beverages in a limited and defined area during special planned events. as well as I mentioned on a daily basis from 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. Persons who would choose to consume alcoholic beverages there would be prohibited from bringing their own, and we have provided with the application a list of the participating restaurants that will be able to serve in this area. The responsibility for overall safety and security rests with the mall. Alcoholic beverage sales responsibility is born by the participating restaurants under their individual licenses, although enforcement of the alcoholic beverage laws be be carried out by the malls, event staff, managers, security officers, and the managers and staff members of the restaurant. The area of allowed possession and consumption will be defined in the matter that has been agreed to by the mall and the Howard County Police Department. There will be signs prohibiting the removal of alcoholic beverages from the licensed area, what they will be posted with warnings agreed to by the mall and the police department, and the number and locations of those signs will be agreed to by the mall and the police department. We will be providing testimony and taking you through a quick slide presentation that will advise you of the types of signs that will be used. Alcoholic beverage containers will carry the brand of the selling restaurant and will be made of clear plastic cups and bottles and cans will be prohibited. Restaurant staff members will be certified in alcohol awareness through a state approved entity and the evidence such as a certificate or card issued by that entity will be posted inside the restaurant. Participating restaurants and their staff members will be responsible for strict enforcement and are liable for any violations of alcoholic beverage laws and or regulations. At any time, the mall and or the managers of the participating restaurants may cease the sale of alcoholic beverages at their discretion, and the mall and the managers of participating restaurants shall have open and immediate communication in order to ensure coordination of efforts to maintain safety. Providing testimony tonight will be Mary Williams, who's seated next to me, the senior general manager of property operations for the mall, who has been with Brookfield Properties for seven years, and then Miss Cagandha Jones, who is the named resident agent in the application. Also on hand, I understand online is Mark Baxter, who's the detective from the police department who has met with Miss Williams and approved the safety plan for them all. And we also have Martin Johnson who has served as an invaluable consultant to feel throughout the application process. I also want to point out the other two applicants aside from Miss Kaganja Jones, Brian McCarthy and Adam Tritt, are both officers of the business for which this license is being sought. That is Brookfield Properties Retail Inc. Mr. McCarthy is the chief administrative officer of Brookfield and has been with the company since the Rouse Company, the original developer of the mall days in the late 80s. And Mr. McCarthy oversees all of the company's property management. And then Adam Tritt is the chief development officer of Brookfield, has been with the company for over 25 years. He is charged with the responsibility of helping the company's malls constantly evolve. Neither Mr. McCarthy nor Mr. Tritt have any day-to-day on-the-ground operational responsibilities and will not be present at the mall other than for occasional site visits. So with that introduction, I'd like to introduce Mary Williams and Ms. Kaganna Jones to testify if you want to swear them in, please. Let's start with Ms. Williams. Yeah. Please raise your right hand. Do you promise that the testimony that you're going to give today will be the choose hold choose nothing but the choose? I do. Thank you. Please state your name and address. Mary Williams, 2180, Tame's Avenue, York, Pennsylvania, 17408. Thank you. Mr. Kigandar Jones, please. Yes. Do you promise that the testimony that you're going to give today will be the choose hold choose nothing but the choose I do okay please state your name and address my name is Rita Chicana Jones my address is 1434 both spirit lane Laurel Maryland 20707 thank you we have we have a PowerPoint presentation to present and we have copies of those to distribute to you. Thank you. They have a large site plan. I'm going to. Yes, please. Ms. Williams, what is your position and role at the mall and how long have you been employed by Brookfield? I am the senior general manager of property operations and I've been with the company for seven years. Okay, can you please explain the concept for the consumption only shopping plumb as a plaza and special event license? The concept is really to supply an outdoor area for our shoppers. You know, it's, it's allow customers and community members who are fit, possess, carry, consume, alcohol, just to enjoy the outdoor plaza. As you well know, the mall and Columbia is sort of the heartbeat of the colored county and we are the town center and people love to be there. So with the plaza we really want people to enjoy that space. We find that people love to just hang out there. We have added some games, we have permanent cornhole now, we have some entertainment plan for the summertime and for us it's just giving them that added bonus when they come here. It's probably most people will be waiting for their table at the restaurants, but it's really just a way for people to enjoy the outdoor space at the mall in Columbia, which they take great ownership in. Thank you. This is a picture of the plaza. I'm sure a lot of you are probably familiar with them all, but this is where the open container area kind of begins. But we have a couple maps here. I wanted to add that the other reason that we want to do this is because we want to support our restaurants. There's a lot of competition that's been coming into the Maryweather District. I feel like for them it gives them a little bit more reason to come to them all. That's one thing. We also hope the partnership with the Downtown Partnership to do some events there. We also use this as an activity space for ourselves. So we have a whole series of summer events that'll be taking place there. If you wanna go to the next slide, Martin. Okay. So this shows you a little bit of what we've done in the past. You can see that in 24 we had a summer events program. Those pictures on the left are an activation called List Trumpos, which we're super excited about. These giant tops that are going to be set up in the plaza. We've done them at multiple properties and they're very, very popular. So they'll be in place from June 21st. They're larger than life, interactive, three-dimensional tops. The picture to your right shows a 2023 activation that we had there, which is these giant swings that we put there called Mekasa Yarkasa. And it's a really good example of something that was beloved by our shoppers. They were always occupied by two-year-olds, teenagers, elderly people. It was very interesting. So our goal really this summer is to bring in less trompos and really to kind of give that same flavor. And on the right, you'll see activities that we've done this summer. We're going to be doing a chicken fast. We're going to be doing a couple of sample events with our restaurants. We're going to be doing a movie night. So we have a lot planned on the plaza. We think people really enjoy it. Thank you. Yep. When you say the movie night that's an outdoor movie night. Yeah, we're going to have outdoor movie night, yeah. Ms. Williams, can you describe the designated outdoor space that's a subject of this license application and can you provide a brief description of it? Yes, if you look at this lease plan and the one that you have in front of you, the light blue area is the open container area which aligns with the requirements of the application. It's about 95,000 square feet of contiguous space and the restaurants will run from Shake Shack at the north end of the plaza to Uncle Julio's at the southwest. All of them have existing class B liquor licenses at the mall. It's something that we would open up to any tenants that occupy space in that area. We do have two vacant restaurant boxes right now that we are actively marketing and we do expect they'll want to participate. But the designated outdoor space will run from the mall entrance at the plaza. Here, let me show you on this. So here's the entrance right here. And then it will extend up here to Shake Shack and down here through main event in Uncle Julios. So, and then you can walk through the plaza area right here. So this is really just the space. You can probably see it on better on the plan that you have in front of you. But that will be the open container area. It will be very defined for restaurants and well marked, which we will show you how we're going to do. Okay, the next several slides will be describing the signage locations and type of signage that will be used. And Ms. Williams, if you would walk through each of those and describe. Absolutely. Well, the math you have in front of you is similar to the one that is up on the screen right now. It'll show you the three different types of signage that we'll have in place. The black signage are the ones that will be located on the parking lot. We expect that the only area in the mall that these customers will likely be is in the West parking lot because that's where the plaza is. So on our parking lot, we're going to have three separate islands where we have a sign actually in the island showing people you cannot have alcohol in this area. So that's the one on top which should be more legible on the sheet you're looking at. That our operations manager will work with me on where we're going to put them but they will be permanent signs in those islands. You can see that we have them located according to the red X on all three parts of the main plaza area. The second sign in there is going to be the signs that we're going to be putting on the plaza to prevent people from leaving that area. So the one with the blue dot will show you which signs we're going to be putting in those places. And basically it just says you can't have alcohol beverages be on this point. So we'll have those signs placed. I don't know how familiar you are with them all, but we have ballers that run around the front of the property. We'll use those ballers kind of as an ear marker. You can see on here that the blue dots show we'll be putting those signs up at Shake Shack all the way down by Barnes and Noble, and then three in that main ballered area. And also we have another access point on the plaza to our oak deck, which is blue dot on the right so we'll make sure that's signed as well. And then the third sign that you see on there is specific to the restaurants and our entry points. Those will be decals on the windows. You can see that the red dots on here show you that you can't have any alcoholic beverages permitted inside the mall, the stores, or the parking lot. So as you're leaving every restaurant, you'll see that on their glass and as you're entering the mall at either one of those entrances, you'll see that very clearly. We do expect that this license will be used much more in an events-oriented manner. So during events, we are also going to be, do you want to go ahead to the sandwich board once? We're going to have temporary signs. Anytime we have events we have other signage that we add temporarily. So we have sandwich boards or those large boards that you see that are a-frames. You can see we will put those up in various points throughout the shopping center. And those will be very specific. We'll probably use the black and white ones so they stand out more. But basically, they will tell you the parameter of where you can go with your alcohol. Yeah, I think those signs are good. Is the, and also for the bottom, right? You have the name of the restaurant. Yes. Do you also have kind of a warning sign to say, you know, you can't take the bottle beyond the, go to the parking lot or anywhere else. Yes, yes. That's our goal. That would be nice. Yeah. Absolutely. I believe the next slide will show a signage that will describe the type of sign at the exit points. OK. So yeah. Yeah, if you advance forward, Martin, this is the one that you'll see in all those points where you can't leave the area. So the ballers, you can see the ballers in the top picture there. Those are the ones that will be facing people as they leave the plazas. They can see, well, actually, probably do them two sided, but they will be in the ballard area. And then you can see Shake, Shack, and Barnes and Noble, they'll be at the other end. But those will be the two combinations of signs that we'll use there. If the board has specific preference, we can certainly do that. One of them is a little more bold and the other one is a little more customer friendly. But these are the ones that will have throughout the plaza area. You want to move to the next one? These are the ones that I talked about earlier that will be on the parking lot. Those would be larger. They were looking at 18 by 24 for those. And then what's the next one on there? These are the entry decals that I talked about. You can see the west or the plaza entrance and the carousel entrance for the view you who know where the Carousel entrance is. Both of those will be well signed with decals likely in multiple places. And then these are the sandwich board ones that I was talking about that we will put throughout the property when we have special events. the other requirement that we have and we have a sample here if you'd like to see it. The tenants that be required to use clear cubs with their logo on it, they will not be permitted to serve their alcohol in anything else. So it would be 12 hours to 20 hours. The season's 52 owner told me, you know, for wine you can't do these pickups. So would you like to see these? This is what, it just has to have their logo on it. So. So you're pretty long. There's just some photos up there, but that will be a requirement so that people know, this is, this is an open container, this is who it came from. And, you know, if there's any issues, we know precisely which tenant is involved. Okay, thank you. Ms. Williams, to your knowledge, does the mall meet the definition of shopping mall within this section, within section 23, hyphen 1066.1 of the alcoholic beverages article, the annotated code of Maryland, such that it is open to the general public for business, is under common ownership or control, shares common parking facilities, and encompasses at least 60 acres. Yes. Thank you. And does the mall include at least one restaurant for which a Class B license has been issued and a designated outdoor plaza for the consumption of alcoholic beverages? Yes. Thank you. Will all of the participating references be located within the mall, have a Class B liquor license, be contiguous to the designated outdoor plaza, and use containers branded with an identifying mark of the seller. Yes. Okay. And does the license application that has been submitted by the proposed licensees on behalf of them all include a description of the designated outdoor plaza and a list of the continuous license holders. That is the participating restaurant, excuse me, the participating restaurants whose beer wine wine and liquor may be consumed in the designated outdoor plaza and a, does it contain a safety and security plan that has been reviewed and approved by the Howard County Police Department? Yes, I'm sorry. So I'm sorry. Which was reviewed with Mr. Baxter, Detective Mark Baxter, the meeting that was held on the premises on March 2nd of this year during which the applicant's proposed safety plan was approved. Yes. Okay, thank you. And can you please explain what type of safety measures you will have in place to monitor and regulate alcohol use? Martin, can you advance the screen? Yes. I knew this would be the main topic of conversation tonight. So I really wanted to explain to you how our security team works and what we anticipate will happen. We have a combination of security that we offer. We have our roaming officers, our stationary officers, our market, our marked security patrol, which is exterior. We also have a K-9 team that we're really proud of and has been very effective. The security officers will be assigned key areas during activities and when we're having special events. But we also have 24 hour CCTV footage that we cover. We have a person that's always there 24 7 plus we have someone else usually a couple other people that are interior and Extriger overnight So you know any potential violation will result in a security officer reminding guests of the open container area Be really easy for them to work with whatever tenant might be involved. They may request ID if they need to, if there's been an issue. Depending on the violation, we might contact the Howard County Police Department. We'll be really careful to work with our restaurants and make sure that they, you know, operators, no, understand all the responsibilities, which I have great faith in all of them, they're really great operators, and they don't wanna lose their license, so I'm sure they will be very militant about enforcing it, I know they all have a proper training. Rita and I both have our alcohol awareness training. The one thing that I really love about our situation is I have a very large team, and we are all boots on the ground all the time. We work an incredible number of hours. Every Saturday we have a manager on duty. We work very closely with our security team all the time. And we all have the ability to monitor the space to ensure it's being police properly and to ensure our signage is in placeable be a great resident agent, but she has a whole team of people that will be working with her. Super proud of my team at Zettner, our operations manager is first in class. He's probably the best ops manager of our company. So I feel very confident. We also have super close relationship with our security director. We have third party security. It is Andy frame associates and they are very much guided by all Brookfield regulations. And they work for us. So whatever we ask them to do as part of the security program, they do. The beautiful thing about our situation is, say Rita's working on a Saturday afternoon. She sees the customer. She's a little concerned about. She can call security right away. She can have an escort with her to talk to the page or if they have other issues, they can talk to the tenant. And if they have to go to the PD, we'll go to the PD. That takes me my next section, which is the PD is all over the mall right now and you guys if you are monitoring everything is happening at the mall. Chief Durr is all about taking care of the mall. He has a crime reduction plan that we put into place. You know he has significant increases in police visibility. You see them there all the time on the lot inside outside. I'm sure Matt and Rita will attest to that. We actually kind of love it. It's been great. And Chief Der has assigned a beat cop to the mall who is there 24-7. It doesn't leave our property. And the best news of all is that we're partnering with them to put a substation inside the mall. So, Chief Der is moving his community resource group to the mall. We're building out a space for them. They're gonna be there full time. The community resource officers are the absolute best ones to engage with our shoppers because that's their job. So, we will have great access to the PD. The PD's been wonderful to work with. So I feel very confident that between my team, the security team, and the PD, we can enforce these roles. We're not serving alcohol. We're just monitoring the space. And we do believe that this will bring a lot of joy to people that live in Howard County. As I said, you know, the mall is the fabric of the community. The plaza is a space that people love to commune, and I feel like providing them with even more reasons to be in that space will be nice. It's a beautiful space. We take wonderful care of it. It has beautiful seating and foliage and events. And it's just a really fun place to be. So we just want this to be an extension of that. Thank you. And lastly, Miss Wainter, do you want to just point out the next slide just a couple of years? Yeah. This is our security exterior patrol vehicle. We have three of those. And on the right, this is our K9 We have a new K9 patrol, which was super excited about this is Chris his dog's name is dragon And he is a vapor wake dog. He actually can smell up to 120 types of gun powders So he patrols 40 hours a week in all peak times He will absolutely be going up and down that plaza every single day. And it's a wonderful program. It's a very customer-friendly program. But if he senses any gunpowder, we make a stop. And we say to them, hey, you're welcome to be here. Are you carrying a weapon? If they say yes, we just kindly ask them to take it away. If they say no, then we ask them if we can want them and ask them a few questions. Sometimes they'll be like a shooting range the day before and the residue is still on them. That's very common. So 99.99% of the time it's a very cordial interaction. We're not policing the guns. We're just making sure they're not on our property. So, drygon is amazing and he's just beloved by the tenants in the shopper. So, he will be a big part of our security patrol. Thank you. Just for, and again for the record, what are the days and hours that the designated outdoor plaza will be available for consumption of beer, wine and liquor? 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. And that's seven days a week. That's seven days a week. But most of our restaurants close at 10 o'clock during the week. Friday Saturday, the only time they're open to 11. So it's not even like you could get alcohol on Monday through Thursday. So I feel I feel pretty confident that, you know, these hours will work the only tenant that we have on our extended hours of the main event and I don't think that they will participate. And just a couple last questions, Ms. Williams. On, in the statute that's applicable here for this application, 23 hyphen, 10006.1, it's really a two-part statute. Subsection B is for the consumption only, shopping mall plaza license. And then subsection H concerns the shopping mall plaza special event permit. So with regard to that section, the special event permit, are you aware that the mall must apply to the liquor board for said permit before the holder or a participating restaurant may publicize, sell tickets for, organize, operate, produce or state the special event? Yes. All right. Thank you. And have you read and become familiar with the boards, rules and regulations, and do you agree to buy by them? Yes. And then lastly, would you like to briefly describe the partnerships that the mall has had and continues to have with the local Howard County community? Yes, we're super involved with the county. I think probably most people here are familiar with a lot of the things we do, but I'll just briefly go through some of them. We are the annual location for the Lunar New Year event that the County Executive always holds. It's really a great event. Very heavily visited. One of the things we're most proud of is we partnered with the school district, the Howard County School District every year with the student art exhibition which we just did a few weeks ago. It's say three-week display in all 77 schools in the county are included in that display. It's set up throughout the upper and lower level of the mall and it is unbelievable and it really does give you chills what the skill of these these kids are. But it's a great traffic driver. People love to come look at this artwork. That's a partnership we've had for 52 years. The other one we've had forever, 41 years, is the Girl Scouts sleep in. We do not promote that for safety purposes, but we have over 2,000 Girl Scouts in the Shopping Center overnight, one night in March. And it is beloved. And when I meet with the girls cuts every year, the people who run it all went there and did it when they were younger. So it's a great partnership for us. We host the Howard County Children's Business Fair every year. That was this past weekend where kids learn how to market their businesses. This is the 30th year for Ms. Julie's Family Fund Day. Every Thursday morning for 30 years, she's been there reading to the kids and providing entertainment and you know all kinds of fun activities for them. We have Easter Bunny and Santa every year. Also one of our biggest drawing is our annual Winx Adiatory. I don't know how many of you have seen it in the past, but we do construct a huge Winced Idea Tree in the center of court area. It's over 900 live plants. We've been doing it for over 50 years. One time we started to stop it in 2008, and we had to bring it back in 2009 because people were so mad that we took it out. But people traveled from all around to get their photograph taken with that. We host two breakfast with Santa events at season 52 that benefit grassroots. We host Ravens Pepp rallies when they're doing well. That was a huge event this year. That was super fun. This is the second year that we will be hosting cranksgiving and conjunction with the downtown partnership which is a bike event food drive. This will be the fourth year we do the turkey trot. We host that. We also host an annual food drive for grassroots every holiday season. We hosted the Giving Machines the past two holiday season which were a product of the Church of the Letterty Saints where they collect money for all different charities. Let's see. We open our doors every single day to mall walkers, hundreds of mall walkers. We open our doors at 7 a.m. for them and they love it. They definitely, you know, it was 6 o'clock and we had to change to 7 and they were not happy about that. We also provide, we host tons of special needs groups every week. We have a lot of service dog training that happens inside the mall. We provide free parking for Maryweather guests of graduations and concerts. We close them all early on July 4th for Howard County because they need our parking lot to do the 4th of July Firework so we close them all early and we turn our entire lot over to Howard County We offer our partner to empower program for minority women to start their own businesses We allow our tenants to hold exercise classes. We have fabrics and lululemon at two Classes that people love lululemon is and we have a few public and we have a few public and we have a few public and we have a few public and we have a few public and we have a few public and we have a few public and we have a few public and we have license is just an extension of that. Thanks. Thanks very much. That was a quite a comprehensive rest. Sorry. No, it was an excellent example of how the mall has been and continues to be partners with the community in every possible way. Those are all the questions I have for this Williams. Would you like questions for her or would you like to wait until after I ask the next witness? The first thing I would like is I would like to understand, are we looking at a license for every day, seven days a week, or are we looking at a license for just special events? The way it's written is seven days a week, 11 to 11. So does that mean that every restaurant can actually just sell the alcohol and people can just go out and do what they enjoy outside at any time? Yes, but I don't think all of the restaurants will participate. Some of them will, some of them won't. And I do think that the bulk of the use of the program will probably be during special events because we'll be promoting things on the Vlasa. And I also think that a lot of the time that people come out with those glasses, they're only out there for 20, 30 minutes because they're waiting for their table. So can a restaurant create a pop-up if they want and just sell things outside if it's a beautiful day? We can only do that according to the license agreement that if they register ahead of time and they have that particular special license that they need for that. Yes, yes, for a special event. I thought I read though that they can sell outside through this. So I must understand that. No. I think that my understanding is they have to serve from inside their space, the customer can walk outside. But if they want to do any type of kiosk or like patio sale, then they need a special events permit. Okay. so everything has to be done from inside. Yeah, so they'll serve from their bar and the person can walk outside. Oh, I didn't get that from the rules. Okay. Okay, well that's good to know. Then who coordinates with the restaurants on all those? Who's responsibility will it be? The resident agent for you folks? It will be Rita and me. Uh-huh. Well, you know, obviously I didn't really want to do much before we actually met with you, but we will meet read in and me. We will, you know, obviously I didn't really want to do much before we actually met with you, but we will meet with each of the tenants. We'll talk to them about the program. We'll see if they want to participate and we'll make sure they know all of the, you know, things that they have to do to the requirements for it. But I think, remember that we work with these tenants every day. So they're friends of ours. They're people. They're colleagues. You know, we're the landlord. They're the tenant. We provide great support to our tenants. So we know them. It will be a situation where it will just be like markets. Season 52. This is what you need to do. And Mark is, you know, a great advocate for them all. He's the kind of person that he's one to tell me what cuts to get. So, you know, we have great respect for them. And it'll really just be a conversation with each of them. I guess my concern is the safety. My concern is, is who's going to monitor the foot traffic out there and what type of security you need and how much security you're going to have, like how many people and what's my concern. I understand that. I think, first of all, this will be limited to weather largely. People don't like to be out in the rain in the cold, so it would be much more for the spring, summer, months. And our restaurants don't even open until 11 o'clock. So I don't think that early afternoon block is gonna be an issue. Our traffic is largely on the weekends, on Fridays and Saturdays. And we have security at exterior patrol 24 hours a day. So there will be somebody out there. But the biggest thing too, and I think that can test this, is that or attest to this, is that our dispatch can see the cameras 24 or 7. You know, he can see many points on the plazas. So if there's anything they have concerns about, also our K9 program, they're on foot. That's the only thing that he does. Okay. And so, all we have are signs around the area? That's what our plan would be with the signage up. So there's no like tape or anything, it's just signs. Yes. But it'll be permanent signs, and they'll be very evident. Yeah. And you said you'll have people in key areas, so will there be like areas near some of the main public signs? especially during events especially during events. When we have things going on, we'll make sure that our security people, our station of places that we might have concerns about. This Williams, have you guys anticipated on what to do for the increase in the accumulation of trash that are formed from? Yes, we actually did talk about that and Matt and I are going to be adding some trash cans to the plaza area and we'll also have extra ones when we have events as well. We also have a street sweeper that comes in 70s a week. And I don't know if you know the answer to this. I noticed that cheesecake factory is not continuous to this outdoor area. Yeah, so they can't participate, according to the guidelines that that. Right. Do they feel any type of way about that? No. Cheesecake is their own entity and believe me, they'll be just fine without the, there's a kind of tenant that you love to have because the customers love them, but they do their own thing. Yeah. This really is my, I'm wondering about, I think there's already a license for another mall in Tausen, right? Our, we own Tausen Town Center, but there is no open container license there. So this is the first a license since the legislation. Yes Towson doesn't have an event like a plaza area either Yeah, that's what I'm wondering I think and now the world and most I have the plaza area. This is the I mean, it's a good thing Yeah, it's's definitely something that's happening in other markets. We have an open container program at a project that we own called South Street, South Street Seaport. It's in Durham, North Carolina, and it's been very successful. You know, and there's a set up really crazy like you can go inside all the stores. But she can't do that. So I know that Ms. Giganda Jones is the resident agent. How much time does she plan to spend there? Do you want me to listen to that testimony from her when I question her? I'm happy to do that now if you'd like or wait. Yeah, I'm curious to have questions. Steve, how do you want to do this? Do you want to finish out your questions for Miss Williams and then move on to the resident agent? Or do you want to? I thought they both are spurging. So. Oh, you must ask this matter to me. I'm done with the questioning, Mr. Wheelan. Are the other board members done with questions for Miss Williams? Yeah, I a couple of questions I have. Thank you, Mr. Shit. One, about these pop-up, so I understand this is going back to Miss Johnson's question. They have to be pre-approved. They can't just do it arbitrarily, correct? Correct. And are these pop-up ability to do a pop-up limited to just those establishments that are a part of this program or can, you know, Budweiser do a pop-up one day, obviously with approval that sort of, they can outside vendors and entities do these pop-ups. Not through this license, not that I'm aware of. No, it would just be our tenants. Okay, thank you. And then I did have a question, and Mr. Shen, he may be honest here. I have a question about security plan. I don't know if that's appropriate here or maybe for later. Probably later when we swear in officer backster. Okay, that's fine. Thank you. That's all the questions I have. Okay, then if I may proceed with taking testimony from Miss Kaganna Jones. I miss K testimony from Ms. Keghanna Jones. Ms. Keghanna Jones, can you please tell us how you're employed with Brookfield? Are you employed on a full-time basis and how long have you been employed with the company? Yes, I am a full-time employee. I work usually up to 40 hours a week and five days a week. And I've been with Brookfield for a few months in September. Okay. Have you had any prior employment or been a licensed holder with any other establishments that have sold alcoholic beverages and if so what was your role there? I was a waitress at a restaurant many years ago. That's my only, yeah. Okay. And you understand that you've been named as a designated resident agent for Brookfield as defined in rule 2.06 of the Howard County Rules of the Board of Licensed Commissioners for Howard County. Yes. Are you familiar with the requirements of serving as resident agent on the license? Yes. And have you had a chance to review that section are 2.06? Yes. Are you currently and do you intend to remain a resident of the state of Maryland during the time this license is in effect? Yes. Do you certify that you will serve as manager or supervisor and be physically present on a full-time basis at the license premises to conduct the daily business concerning alcoholic beverage sales? Yes. Have you completed and submitted with the application and approved and approved alcohol awareness course? Yes. Okay. If a petition is ever filed against the subject license alleging a violation of the provisions of the alcoholic beverage's article or these rules is filed. Will you agree to personally attend the hearing? Yes. And are you aware that if you intend to resign as resident agent, you must give notice in advance to the liquor board and that upon receipt of notice, the administrator of the board will send the remaining licensed holders notice that a new application for a new resident agent in the state of Maryland is required within 30 days. Yes. Thank you. What would you do if you saw a violation of the license occurring in the designated outdoor plaza? I would alert security immediately. Okay. Thank you. And do you consider yourself a trustworthy person? Yes. Thank you. There's all the questions I have from Ms. Contan. Mr. Kikanna Jones, how many hours are you going to spend at the location? I usually work 40 hours a week, sometimes more. So the resident agent work, I mean I know the mall has hired you to do that. Is that your only kind of a function? No sir, I'm the property management associate. Do you have other people that work with you and would they be responsible for any of this? The mom management team as a whole as well as our security team, we're all going to work together to ensure that the safety plan is appalled. So will there be people then? That will be monitoring the alcohol rules? And will they be alcohol away and are certified? I'll pass that over to Mary on that one. Our team is alcohol awareness certified, but I think that our security team is well equipped for that. And I'm just based on what they do on a day-to-day basis. I should add that Rita was selected as the resident agent because she holds a role in our company that oversees all marketing. So she's very involved in the event side of it and Brookfield felt it was best if we use somebody who's really involved in the day-to-day event portion of it. as far as alcohol awareness, you know, it's really involved in the day-to-day events portion of it. But as far as alcohol awareness, you know, our team is definitely trained and, you know, the good news is that one of us is always there. We work a lot. And we work, you know, we always have an MOD on site. So in addition to security, Rita has a lot of other support around her. Any questions from other board members? I have a bunch, but to continue on, will there be somebody that's alcohol or were undersertified working like Friday nights at 10 o'clock? We're Saturday night at 10 o'clock? We could I mean I think that Friday nights at 10 o'clock you know the restaurants are closing are closing at that point. We probably would not have anybody on site then. But our security team is well equipped to handle any situation that, you know, we would have concerns about. So and you said you would alert security. What would security do when they found a violation? Security would come, talk with the customer, we would have to figure out, you know, exactly what's happening. If the customer, you know, they appear to be underage, they can certainly card them. In most cases, I think we would walk them back to the tenant that served them, we would have a discussion with them make a decision moving forward with that. I feel like as the landlord on this property the best thing we can do in that situation if somebody honestly if we're unclear on what we need to do is to go back to the person that served them. But if it was an underage person that was clearly drinking and it came from establishment, if you just walk them back back to the establishment, would it be reported to this board as a violation? I think what we would do probably is the person, well we would handle it however you would expect the restaurant to handle that situation. I don't know exactly how that would go but in our situation we have the ability ban people from our property, which we do frequently when there's any type of misbehavior. But, you know, my goal really is to work directly with the tenant. If it's an alcohol violation, no, it isn't there to be required to be reported to the county so that we can track it and then go after the license holders. I think that would be a great question for officer Baxter. Oh, that's a general to have. There's all the violations. That would be. Because this area that you're proposing, there's no way that the restaurants themselves would be able to watch and monitor for handling sales. Right? Yes. So did this require any zoning changes? No. So the proximity to residents changing with an outdoor patio area with alcohol doesn't doesn't change the usage of that area. No. It doesn't change the calculations for like restroom facilities. I don't believe so. No. No. Are there any restaurants that are open past 11? No, none of the ones that would participate. What time would they stop serving alcohol? I don't know. I would think that they probably stop at least 15, 20 minutes before they close. Okay. I don't know the answer to that. Sorry. So then at 11 o'clock, the area would pretty much have to be cleared or at least nobody would be allowed to have alcohol at that point after that point. And we do have security. You know, that would be monitoring that closely. Yeah, because there's also noise ordains. Right. And we're aware of that. You're getting fairly close to some residences that didn't have this activity there before. Yeah. And that's all I had for right now. I think the general expectation is that the noise level will not be significant. It will be mostly as is waiting stated for patrons who are waiting for reservations at a restaurant waiting to be seated or otherwise there but not late into the dead pushing the deadline of the closing times for the license allows. And so there's no tables or chairs involved with this. It's just strictly standard. for the license allows. And so there's no tables or chairs involved with this. It's just strictly standing. Well, we do have some seating areas in the plaza. We have some round tables out there, some benches. We have some Adirondack chairs. So people can sit if they want. They're talking to me right now. Okay, then I would also like to call Mark back. So it testifies well. Yes, please. Oh, here's someone. And do you want to swear him and then as well? Yes, yes, please. Director Baxter, can you raise your right hand? Do you promise that the testimony that you're going to give today will be the choose. Ho choose nothing but the choose. Detective back to back to your muted. We got it. In here. We can hear you now. All right. I do. Okay. Can you state your name and address? Yes. Corporal Mark Baxter. As you have 3410. Court House Drive. Elecantity Maryland. 21043. Thank you. Thank you. Corporal Baxter, hi, I just like to ask you a few questions. What has been, what was the nature and extent of your review of the mall safety plan and were you satisfied that the plan meets what you believe the requirements are for to maintain order and safety at the designated space? Yeah so I met with Mary above Rita and the attorney and Mark Johnson. We met at the property at the site and they basically went over everything that they had on a scary plan and how they were going to handle certain things and asked for my input. But if I had any questions about it, and then I'd want to have something that, you know, I, but I liked it, something that thought that, you know, I gave them input as far as like, you know, signage and, you know, things like that, just some things to think about. I'm based on my experience in open areas. Okay, thank you. And were you able to hear some of the questions and concerns of Mr. Board members, Mr. Coleman and Ms. Johnson had regarding potential violations and safety concerns at the site? Oh, yeah. And do you feel that the plan that is in place and has been submitted with the application is sufficient to cover those potential violations and it includes everything possible to make sure that there are no violations? Yes, as much as any of them, as much as any planning could go, you can't really do anymore. And they have a lot of resources as well, a lot that most places don't have, like a security team, that sort of thing. And the fact that my fellow officers are always there, it's helpful as well. Okay, thanks very much. Those are all the questions I have for Mr. Corpobax. Thanks. So I can continue on. The mall previously had had to institute a policy about unaccompanied minors. Does that extend to this area? Yes, it does. Yes, it does. We have a PGR program in place which stands for Perunto Guidance Required on Friday and Saturday evenings after 4 p.m. anyone under the age of 18 has to be with someone who's 21 years old or that is strictly enforced on her property. And that's property in general, not just inside the mall. Correct, all common area space. For the Howard County police, is there is there going to be a review and a way to of tracking issues and potentially provide feedback to tell if this is working or not working after some period say it's a year or five years whatever. I think that was for you. I believe that was for Corp. Backster. It kind of was, but anybody that qualified to answer it is fine to jump in. The basic question is if this is the first one that's going forward, is there going to be a feedback mechanism that we can tell if it works or not works and then takes steps to correct any issues that are revealed? For my point view, there's nothing that is normal. Other than that's normally happening. If there's issues, then I would schedule a meeting to try and get them resolved, or if there's complaints. You know, I'll meet with the licensees and try and figure out a way to resolve them. So there is no formal, you know, every six months or that sort of thing. I'm sure I'll stop by and, you know, keep an eye on this, see how things are going randomly, especially since I'll be right there in every weather next to time, which is basically right across the street. Thank you. One of the things we do is we meet with Captain Mollinex, who is the Captain for our precinct and he oversees Somali specifically. He oversees just Somal now. So we meet with him monthly and we always bring things like this forward, whether not this easily, but we have all kinds of things that we discuss. So I think that would be easily incorporated into that. And I could work with Detective Vaxter, whatever information he feels would be best shared with Captain Mollenix. I think we could definitely work together as a team. We have a lot of communication with the PD. And we are proud of the partnership that we've created with them. So. Sir. Okay. Okay. Sorry. Here. Hi. My name is Officer Eli. I'm part of the community outreach team. I'd be. Oh, yes. Sorry. You. You swear the customer that you think you're today will be. I do. Officer Eli E. L. Y. 3450. Court House. Shut down and make yourself comfortable. So I can only speak to this part. I'm part of the NICMEA outreach team that Mary was just explaining earlier. My self and my partner, we look every week. We look at all the calls for everything at the mall. So this isn't just for alcohol, but that will show every call generated. So if there is something with like a disorderly or underage drink or anything, that will come to our attention at some point over a week or two. And then we kind of put that into a statistics that Captain Monix talks about. And so it does get seen by officers. Not specifically for alcohol, but we will see it. That answers your question. Sort of, I can tell you what my concern is is is that basically the alcohol enforcement the threat is is taking away somebody's license and the only way that works is if violations are reported and fed back to the county so that they can take those steps to hold the people accountable and to make sure that they are strict in what they're saying that they are going to do. So with that, I would have to yield a detective backster that is completely under his thing. So I can't go into what people are reporting or not reporting. All I can say is people look at it. We often work on Friday and a Saturday night, mall detail, along with the designated mall car that's always working. And as early were there a lot. So I can't specifically talk about licensing and everything like that, this wide detective backstores here. I can say everything that gets reported will be reviewed. Okay, thank you. Yes. Just a good question. I think the enhanced security, especially the police presence probably was triggered by the recent happening, right? So do you see there's a possibility, you know, when things getting better, the police department can pull out from the mall? No, I don't. I would hire up people to me. I'm very low on the total pull. All I know is I am currently assigned to the mall. I don't see that changing anytime soon. I think part of why we're here is so we can bridge the gap so we can talk to people like Mary but also talk to store owners, restaurant owners. I don't see that going away anytime soon. They just redistricted to make the mall. It's the mall just the mall. It's own district. It's at the. and the community. I don't see that going away any time soon. They just redistricted to make the mall just the mall its own district. That's staying and as well as myself in my partner I don't see us going anywhere. Thank you. We're spending on a significant amount of money building out the substation and they will be, you know, in a licensed agreement with us that will be years. So I don't think the substation is anything temporary at all, so that group will be there. That's your new home. Officer Backstribe, I have a question for you and how all this kind of works. If someone is apprehended and they're underage, it appears they're underage, and they have a cup, let's say, from Magianos. Okay, to be just the fact that that person has that cup, is that enough evidence to say that Magianos served an underage person, it isn't, right? Yeah, not just because they have a cup. So how would you I would have to do? Officer or myself usually the troll is usually the first line of defense that I speak because they're the ones that would get the call and They would you know do a regular investigation to find out you know how they how they obtained it who they have painted from and And then they would do a regular investigation to find out how they obtained it, who they obtained it from, and then they would put that in a report. And then usually, unless it's an act of just circumstance where they have to, you know, a public safety hazard where a place need to be shut down, which I don't think has ever happened. That will get forward to me and then I would follow up on that with the life of the day. Okay that's what I was kind of wondering. Okay thank you. So that's all the witness that you're going to call tonight. That is. Yes. All right. I have a quick closing statement if there are no other questions. I would just like to make it very quick. Mr. Hen. Do you have any further questions? I do. Thank you, thank you, Mr. Chair. This could be for off-spacers, Ms. Williams. So if I'm not to understand this correctly, there's no real, this isn't a corded-off area, it's just an open area, there's no separation, no way to check whether people in this area are, you know, over 21 or not. It's a public area where people are just able to drink correct. No, not really. I mean, the alcohol has to be served to them by a restaurant that has a license. No, no, I'm not saying as far as I'd be understanding alcohol is coming from the establishment. So I'm not saying that I'm just saying that, you know, people can you know, there will be people out, say it's a nice night and there will be folks who go to one of the restaurants and they get their plastic cup of their out there. But it's also an area where, you know, teenagers could be walking through, I mean, not saying they're drinking. I'm just saying, you will have co-manually between, you know, families, young people, people of drinking age, all in the same area. There's no way to separate any of that out correct? Correct. And the one thing and this this again is the question I had. I was going to ask, early about security planning. I hear a lot of good stuff. Obviously, you know, most security, you guys certainly have a good program in place that the collaboration with the police department is fine if somebody looking at cameras. But I didn't hear the words dedicated resource. So there's nobody there in person in that area at all times, monitoring activities. If something goes down, whether it's the service or anything like that, somebody has to be called if they're not already there, and maybe it's between patrols, things of that nature. So there are gaps, right? We have 24 hour dispatch surveillance of the plaza. So I would say, but they're on site, they're on site. And we also have, I mean, our dispatch works so that they can immediately contact an officer to report to an area that happens all day every day. Right. So, but the dispatch is not in the plaza area. It's somewhere else. So, to your point, if they see something, it not to make a follow call again somebody out there that's not truly immediate. I would say we monitor our property 24 seven and the PD also there 24 seven. Right. Okay. That's what I thought. Thank you. That's all I have this chair. You want to add to that? You want to swear him in?. You wanna swear him in? You wanna swear him in, I can. Okay, I need more. Do you swear that the testimony that you're gonna give today will be choose, hold choose nothing but the choose? I do. Please state your name and address. My name is Matthew Zentner and I reside at 7205 Shubb Farm Road in Marriott's, Phil Marolin 21104. I'm the senior. your name and address. My name is Matthew Zentner and I reside at 7205 Shubb Farm Road in Marriotsville, Maryland 21104 on the senior operations manager at the mall in Columbia. And just to answer that last kind of line of questioning, we do have 24 seven security dispatch inside an office it's maybe a hundred yards from this pausa area and we have a very robust CCTV program. We have over 160 cameras throughout the mall. So in addition to having someone sitting at a desk, monitoring all those cameras, we also have people out in the field and so dispatch then radios, those people that are out in the field, whether they be out in the plaza or if they're in the carousel entrance, or if they're attending something in some other part of the mall. But they can see if there's a problem, and they can dispatch a person there directly. So it's more than just someone in an office far away from the plaza. There is actually the dispatch office is 100 away from the plaza. There is actually the Dispatch Office is a hundred yards from the plaza and they're always accompanied by people in the field, security folks in the field. So the dispatches really the the line of communication to those people out in the field to send them directly to where the problem may be. I hope that helps add a little context. Well I guess my question is in theory what would the response time be would you ask to me? Oh it's less than a minute less than a minute. Yeah and again we have a fantastic partnership with Howard County and they're always on site. I'll also remind the board that we have the PGR program so on on those nights, it typically, there might be some evening drinking a Friday night, a Saturday night. We don't allow teenagers in any part of the mall unless they're with a guardian that's 21 and over. Thank you, Mr. Dunder. Is there anything else that you've heard here tonight from the board in terms of questions or concerns, safety wise, that you feel you can allay or address in any way other than what's already been said? Well, I think just, you know, I would just go back to our security team. We have a large team. When we instill the PGR program, we ramped up. I think we added another 15 to 18 officers to our program. So there's lots of officers, especially on those key nights, Friday night, Saturday night, Sundays during the day. We're going to have a lot of officers on the property as well. We always have a manager on duty on weekends and then a manager on call on Sunday. And so we're always there. So. Yep. All right, thank you. My pleasure. So, but will any of those managers be alcohol or weariness certified? Well, I know that Mary and Reader are, and I think maybe if this program goes forward, then we will expand that and have others be certified as well. There's a few of us that do manager on duty, myself being included, so I would envision that all of us that perform that duty would be alcohol certified. And the other thing we'd be happy to do is have our security team. Anybody that's going to be boots on the ground for us, definitely we can require them to be alcohol awareness trained. OK. Yeah, we have a really close relationship with Andy Frane, and they do what Brookfield asks of them. Thank you. All right. Ms. Kim, do you have any further comments before we go into deliberation? Miss Kim, could you unmute yourself? There we go. Sorry. OK. This is very confusing. I don't mind outdoor drinking myself because I have a chat around and they go out and drinking is not available to me. So I'm confusing's no more questions. If that's a case, then I suggest we go into deliberation. Mr. Chair? Yes. I believe they had, Mr. Feldman, maybe had mentioned something about a closing state, but I don't know. Oh, yes. Thank you. Yes. Yes. I would just like to say in summary that I believe that the testimony and evidence that you've heard today supports that the applicants are fit and proper persons to hold the license. That the granting of the license is necessary for the accommodation of the public and that the granting of the application will not unduly disturb the peace and safety of the residents of the neighborhood in and around the mall. And finally that applicant, Rita, Kaganna Jones, meets the requirements of rules 110, T and 2.06 of the rules of the board of licensed commissioners for Howard County, Maryland. Okay, thank you. If I may may I just want to go first to make comments about this case. You know I like the fact that the mall is the magnet for the community and I see the effort that the management is making to make it secure and make it to become a good place for the community to together. I certainly appreciate that. And I think everything, there's the first time, right? So for this, this is the first time, there's a risk and there's things like that. But I see that the management is beefing up the security and working together with the police department. So that's a good sign. And I was suggest because this is the licenses from 11 to 11 p.m. Right? So I don't think the agent or Miss Williams you're going to be there all that time So so I I would suggest to have the security team to to have the Certificate of the alcohol training because they should know what to do when things happen That's my recommendation. I will let other members to make a further comment. I agree with that as a recommendation. And I also agree with your sentiments of wanting to see them all prosper. My only, my large concern is that responsibility seemed diffused and amongst multiple parties that may or may not want to enforce stuff strictly because I mean the mall wants to do to be successful that the other people don't want to lose their liquor license and it's hard to pin who is actually responsible for what in this situation but it's just a general concern. That's all I have. Yeah, I agree with both the chair and also Mr. Colton, what you all said. I think we all, especially in this day and age where you know brick and mortar balls are under a lot of stress. So you certainly want to make sure this is accessible, especially one that has a history of Columbia Mall. I too have concerns. I'm still not coupled with some of the security elements. The answers that I'm just going to be blunt and say the answers were far short of what I was looking for. I'll just be blunt and honest there. I think the enforcement piece of it is also a concern. It seems like it's been a passing the buck as opposed to, you know, if there is a violation, it's going to be dealt with. It's just going to kind of be passed off and, you know, reported somewhere to disappear to ether. So I've concerns there, but there is the first time. I also have not a fan of going all the way to 11 o'clock. I think if I were to make a recommendation that certainly could I be enforced, I would want to see the ball say, you know what? Yes, we can go to 11 11 we're not going to initially just to see how this program works out and then maybe we expand it later that'll be my personal recommendation. I don't think Mr. Shen we can make that a part of our approval because the law that was passed by the General Assembly allows going to 11 so I don't know if there's anything we can do about that. That would be an area that I would want to address if we could, but you can tell me as our council. But, you know, obviously there is a plan in place. I think it's worth giving them a shot to see how this works and we'll go from there. I agree with a lot of Mr. Hunt just said. I really see this in serendium willingness for the mall to want to make this work and I think it's really exciting to have events and opportunities for people to enjoy that beautiful space. I did ask a lot of questions about security because I am concerned about security. And because of the things that have been happening recently, I am, I was very happy to hear about a lot of the things that you've talked about and the things that are coming into play. You know, I guess I was hoping to see a plan that said, we're increasing our security by so many, so much of a percentage or we're going to have so many people at this place because in my mind, maybe I'm a crazy person, but I see like all these kids hanging out in the parking lot, you know, bringing the alcohol in the parking lot. But I've listened to Mr. Baxter and I believe in Mr. Baxter and he believes this is a good plan. So I think it's so I'm going to improve it. I think that we need to provide opportunities like this for our community. And this is the first time, so I think that I think it's something that we should try and help Mr. Baxter can keep track of it. I don't like the idea though that I agree with Mr. Colman. I don't like the idea that if there is someone who is serving underage people, there's no way to really tell who it is because it's in a cup, you know, and they're just in a common area. So it's going to be very difficult to know where that fault lies. And but I guess that's just part of the whole process, right? So, you know, because I'm all about, are we able to follow the rules of the law? And you can't really do that in this type of environment because that's why I asked the question about the cup. It's not lawful to say, oh, the cup came from this place, so the liquor came from this place. So, but I think that I think I'm for it. I think that I'm okay with this for now. And I do like the idea that we can keep track of what's happening. And I would like to hear and like eight months are shown that what's going on and what kind of success you've had. We can partner with the PDE to come up with some sort of report for you because they'll be with one set. We'll be compiling that information for us. I want to make a motion but before doing that, I want to ask if you are open to the idea if I require the security team to have you know during that 11 to 11 period you know anyone on duty at least one of them has the certified like restaurant right the serve at least one of the server needs to be certified during the operating operation hours. You're talking about the alcohol awareness training. Absolutely. We'll be happy to do that. So with that, Ms. Kim, do you have anything to add? I personally don't like it. I don't like it. Sorry. I hear you. So I want to make a motion. I think anyone else can make a second motion if they choose to. So I moved to approve the shopping mall plus a beer wine liquor seven-day license to Brookfield property retail in treating as the mall in Columbia contingent. Well, I guess the more agrees to have the security team to receive the alcohol certificate training. Mr. Colman. Mr. Coleman. Mr. Hunt. He's on mute. Mr. Hunt, you're muted. Sorry to mute button. Yes. Miss Johnson? Yes. Miss Kim. No. OK. Looks like the majority votes for yes. Mr. Feldman, do your clients wave their right to an appeal this time? Yes. Yes. Thank you. Yes, thank you. All right. Congratulations. Thank you. You stayed in time. I know it won't. Thanks very much for your attention. Thank you. Yeah. Great questions. Thank you. And I'm in my office all the time if you guys want to talk about anything. Okay, great. And our next meeting will be June 10th. We'll look at the others. Alright.