you you I'm going to have to go to the next floor. Can I do the roll call please? Chair Atherin, President, member Warner, President? Member Warner? President? Member Robich? President? Sorry. And are other two members have excuse absence in the vice chair and member angles? Okay. Before we start the public participation I had to just mute my phone if everybody would just so we can run through this a little easier. I had to check mine. phone if everybody would, just so we can run through this a little easier. I had to check mine, yep, I muted. Okay, call it on. Public participation, do we have room for public participation? Anyone want to speak to us? I see two panelists in the public, okay. With none, we'll go ahead and move on to approval of the minutes from the previous meeting. Do I have a motion to approve? Motion to approve. Second. Second. You want to call the roll. Member Warner? Yes. Member Robich? Yes, President. Chair Atherne. President, yes. Okay moving on. Now let's discuss some of this new business, which is the fourth item on our agenda today. I want to go over a little background on this. We had discussed some topics when we were in here last for some things to go over when we met again. The current schedule of the dredging, we're gonna hear from a little later. I have a research that I did for the canal systems and other things that I found. If you all don't mind, I'll just move to that. If that's okay. That's fine. I have a button to push. He didn't show me the button, but I gather it to this one. Oh good, okay, super. Alright, so moving forward, let me just give you a quick briefing. We will be starting the cleanup project in the, in the, uh, uh, uh, Chernobyl Canal very soon. I know that it's like two weeks from now, roughly. And, and so we'll get a rundown on that a little later, but as that's done, let's just imagine it's already happened, let's just imagine it's already happened, it's already finished, now moving forward with the creek, how are we going to keep this thing maintained in its existing state after the cleanup, after the dredging? So with the money from USDA's Emergency Water Management Program, the creek is going to get this new uplift, and that was all thanks to a lovely hurricane that brought it through. So that brackish water you see in the photos in front of you, that is going to be a little deeper. We're counting on the fact there's going to be some things pulled out of there we don't want to know about but they're going to be there and then we're going to restore these sections of the creek. You should be able to float all the way to the inlet once we're done. So the dredging is going to start within, like I said, that two weeks, starting a few weeks in September. And then the sediment's getting removed. It hasn't. It's been there for some time. So now what? How can the city keep this maintained after this? Are there any historical grants available that can be used to do that as well? St. John's Water Management District. Are they able to step in? What has been done in parts of other parts of Florida? And is there funding from the infrastructure bill available to the city as it was for edgewater? I don't think you can see that bottom line, but knowing these things, let's take a look. So the city's comprehensive plan definitely states that there is a storm water management in place. Is it enough to continue to maintain the creek's flow? Well on the bottom line of that where it says drainage, it says 25 year, 24 hour event, 24-hour event drainage systems will be designed to meet the requirements under the land development regulations. But I haven't seen those land development regulations include anything about the creek, the ones I read anyway. So that may need to be updated as part of our recommendation to the city commission that it may be included in that recommendation letter to add something about the Turnbull Creek maintenance, under storm water. With the historic grants that are allowed throughout the state, Newlands come out in November, we can look at those later on to determine if there's some that could classify to fall under this Turnbull Creek Preservation Restoration job and see if it's possible. Gunnall has head to St. John's Water Management District. So their answer is, as long as it's only a last resort we can step in, or if we own it, and that was their answer to me. So when I've got to their office, I ask them specifically, what do we do with the Turnbull Creek after it's cleaned out, and can you help manage it for us, and that answer was no. But there are other options. And their options were to seek a special taxing district, either the city apply for a special taxing district to maintain the Greek or except one that's already available. And there is through the county because a lot of our Greek systems are going to connect with Port Orange to Edgewater to West of town. They're gonna eventually have to go county wide. So I went to South Florida and Southwater Water Management District was extremely helpful. They provided me with several of these canal system maps. Now, granted, when they put these canals in place in South Florida, you know, at the time they were doing it, there was no DEP, there was no regulations for what we can do, what we can't do, environmental hazards, et cetera. And so these actually put in just so we can farm sugarcane. The same canal system design that was put in New Samaritan Beach when it took on its first breath and that was mirrored in South Florida again to allow us to grow sugar cane. It is the second largest crop in our state. First largest is beef. Let me give you a close-up of this map. So what they did when they first put in these canals, the first one that went in was the cross-sword of barge, because it was the one that this canal that cuts through Lake Ogachobi was the one that saved everybody a lot of time transporting materials. The farmers came in to South Florida in 1850, roughly, and began working with the Army Corps of Engineers, and they needed a way to convey the water of overflow going into Lake Okeechobee and out. Now, we weren't really concerned at that moment in time in South Florida to preserve the Everglades and so of course we drained it, oops, too much. And so now we have a great canal system that has levees and gates that provide a system movement of water. They're allowed to shut the gates during a storm episode. They pump the water out of these canals and then move the water on the other side of these flood gates and then bring the water back in during times of drought where they need the water for irrigation in the farms. So that's how the system actually works. And it's divided into five different locations of water canals. You have any questions yet? Here we go. Okay, so these basins are all set up and when a developer comes in, because South Florida has learned the developers come and they go and they leave behind a mess. And so to prevent that, what they've done is designed out every homeowner association crop area that you see in in color, where these basins are located and that developer is required to connect to either a basin or an external canal system that takes the water outside of their little pond and move it to the bigger pond on St. Roderot 84 or any of the major canal systems that are in South Florida, brilliant system. So when did they start thinking about this thing? Well, it happened when several of these homeowner associations became flooded, similar to what we saw with Venetian Bay. And so these little bond issues went into place that a contractor is supposed to fall with. Now I want you to see this highlighted area on this bond issue. This is a shoreline bond issue. And in it, it says that they hereby bind themselves their heirs, the executors, the administrators, anybody that's breathing gets to be connected to this thing. But you're bound by your bond issue to fix anything within a period of time. Now in these particular ones I did include the second page of that which states, this one is in addition to the one year, the basic one year, but it can be renewed. And that's up to the city or whoever is signing this bond issue with that developer. So this little thing, I mean, it just gets me, it's their heirs. It's just the paving bond, it's also says the same thing. The paving and drainage bond is also, they can't walk away and leave this behind. So I kept wondering, when did these things go into place? 1850 was the swamp over and overflow lands act. It granted that 20 million acres to the state. It's included that 500 acres in the Everglades. At that time, again, they didn't know. And so they began putting these canal systems in completely for the farmers. And these farmers were making deals. I'll dig this ditch from here, 36 miles. And I want 20% of all airborne land that is created by my canal. And they got it. And that's how they began to farm South Florida. And sugar cane became the largest crop in the state at that time. Isn't that amazing history? I'm just floored by it. I love it to death. But it caused a problem with our Everglades, because we again dug the ditches and the canals that drain the Everglades Otoo Much. So later on, if you'll notice down on the bottom of that page, it says 1948, the house documents launched the Central Florida, the Central and Southern Florida Flood Control Project, which began to address more hurricane activity. So even then, they believed we were going to get more water, more water, more water, and so they didn't really concern themselves with trying to fix the everglades at that time. But this provided 1931, six major canals went in more than 400 miles, 440 mile additional canals and 47 levees, 16 locks and dams were constructed. That was in 1931. Think about it and wrap your head around it. Okay, then let's go to this one is from the Kassimi watershed. But there's a book that I've traveled through with this is the Blake's reference there from 1980. It's a good read if you get a minute. But if you notice about halfway down in 1902, the core of engineers completed the navigation project to dredge the three feet of navigable channel, and that was to connect into the Kassimi River. So that was in 1902 to 2009. They quit quite a bit. So let's move forward. So how did we do what Edgewater just did? Edgewater obtained $15 million for fixing their infrastructure according to what is needed now. They've realized these canals do work. We might wind up, if we don't pay attention, we might wind up overdoing the drainage that we're going to need. But you can't do it with ditches. It has to be done with canals. And so they're putting in a canal system that's going to be that infrastructure program. And this is to help convey water out of Florida shorts where it does flood. And again, that's been years and years and years. How long has that been on the surface of edge water? So, that's how they got there. And these infrastructure bill, the infrastructure bill, this one was based on Hurricane Michael and you know how long ago that was. So it's taken him a while to finally get the money, but they didn't get it through any other program, but that infrastructure bill, which is one of the key places we're going to need to address ourselves moving forward of how do we fix this for later. So now let's look at what the St. John's Water Management faced me with and that is that we need to find a location of somebody, a taxable district, a special taxing district that will qualify to go from Port Orange to New Samarna to edge water and further down into O'Kill because if you're going to build west of town which inevitably it's going to happen when I'm long gone dead and and in ashes but if you're going to do it there are canal systems that need to be put in place now and thought about and how do we how do we approach getting that done well Volusia County has the mosquito control, which is a special taxing district under county jurisdiction. The county council is directed money into giving them the direction they need to move forward with a plan of cleaning out or maintaining any of the major ditch or canal structures. This is a plan that the city commission has to be approached with as a recommendation from our board to the city commission. To I also am getting a letter of recommendation from Valencia soil and water management. And from St. John's water management district to direct the city to do the same thing. Ask the county council to send the key to the city to control the same thing. Ask the county council to send mosquito control the money they need to help us maintain what it's taken me 1.6 million to find after a hurricane. That's my question. So as you see in this map, this is the flood map. It ain't getting any better. This is the plan. If the water's gonna come in, we've gotta have a way to get it out. If we have, now, if we've opened up the Turmbled Creek, and you can see in the center of that blue, big blue section in the screen, there's a pond. That is the edge of the Turmbled Creek. So just kind of follow it comes up right in the dead center middle top of that page. This is the only system right now that we have in place large enough to convey that much water if it happens again. But for future drainage this is something we certainly need to look at. There's no other major ditches other than the Sam Sula Canal behind that. So now I open it up for y'all's questions. Well? I don't know where I go from here. I, I mean I'm familiar with the South Florida Washington. You need to be in this microphone please. Yeah I don't I don't know what questions I have at this point because I'm familiar with the South Florida water. You need beans, Mike. Please. Yeah, I don't know what questions I have at this point, because I'm just being brought up a speed on all this. But I'm in complete agreement with the way that it needs to be done, what you've gone through. Let me ask you this. And I don't know if it's on the same subject. But when we talk about maintaining the actual creek itself and its flow Is there a discussion about where it's choked off at the bridges? That's kind of something that has it has been spoken of and talked about in here There are grants available to retrofit openings under these bridges because some of the bridge openings are too thin to narrow of a passage So, the water conservation people are going to be able to see if that same retrofit openings under these bridges because some of the bridge openings are too thin, too narrow of a passage. State Road 44, that opening can be opened. It's a long distance. That one has to be looked at by engineers to see if that same retrofit can go in. It's through the water conservation people and through Marine W Marine FWC. And that program was one that I had passed on to Ron who was going to take a look at getting into that, what we'd need, how much we'd need to go. And I don't know that you've had the time possibly to look at that. Well the issue is all of those points are either county roads or state roads. So the city has no jurisdictional authority to implement any programs for that. So that would be us asking the state to consider that as part of an overall turnable plan. And the county to possibly apply for the grant given that they're the governmental entity that has jurisdiction over that those roadways that are under their control. Okay. Because at one point I had been trying to work with US Fish and Wildlife Service on Grants programs for that on the Turnable Bay Bridge. Because when that was, first off, there's pilings from two bridges ago, still in there, damming it up. And apparently there was a tractor event that they drugged the tractor across and pushed a lot of that soil up that dammed across during low tides at six inches. And water, I mean, it's really, really bad. And there's an abandoned NOAA weather station there that is also clogging it. So I'm still working with US Fish and Wildlife to try to, because they have grant programs for that also. Now with our Dredging Program of the Turnbull Creek, I don't know that that area is being addressed. No. Well, that's a nice thing to know. Which it's yeah it's a major choke off. But again I don't know if that's a different one. Once we get it flowing that's still going to be an issue. And then what? So I know we've discussed this before in in meeting of what to do with that and I believe we were supposed to get in touch with somebody at the railroad system because there's God and then there's the railroad and that's their problem but we actually it's the railroad and then God. Oh, all right. Well, so in the meantime, has that been discussed with, with, with, with the, um, uh, I don't believe so but I will, I will check what's there. Now I can also, are you familiar with the Creek is rising Group the Creek is rising. It's non-profit. It was started by an attorney in Port Orange or Daytona, Bob Lloyd They fought for the last Seven or eight years may pretend years the railroad and it was the We can outweigh him kind of thing and Bob waited them out. Sorry. And Bob waited them out and they have now gotten money to Dredge the Spruce Creek Bridge on the other end of Turnbull Bay so that has been approved. I can do whatever and I can do to help and go through Bob and those people. I've been in touch with them and helping them and working with them for many years on it. But if that program could be taken and applied over to our bridges it'd be fantastic. Good. I asked that you work with Kyle Fagley on coordinating something there. Yes, that's true. Actually, we have a new staff person who's our stormwater guy. His name's Tom. And again, how do you spell the last name, please? N-G-Y-U-N. Win. OK. Yeah, win. OK. The debris you were talking about is that something that could be like a debris removal? I mean the NOAA station and the virus. Yes. And I have tried to move some of it, but what I need to do is, you know, I don't know if I can do this as a citizen or not, but it's going to be, it's going to require probably a winch to drag its aluminum weather station that was there. It was a salinity monitoring station that was put there, knocked over in a storm, and then abandoned. That will have to be pulled. I mean, it can be done. Not the last bridge, two bridges ago. The wood piles are all still there in the ground sticking up. Then there's also concrete piles in the middle of it all. Is that on the New Sumerna side or? Well, that bridge runs, I mean, I think both sides are New Sumerna. You mean the county bridge or the railroad bridge? Monitoring station is between the county bridge and the railroad. Pylings are under the bridge itself, or right up on the edge of it. The concrete old pylings are under the bridge itself or right up on the edge of it The concrete old pylings are probably prior railroad there under the railroad. Okay. Um, so it's kind of just a whole It's all on oysters and all gotten built up and yeah, and just over the years is damned off Yeah, the issue of removing the former county bridge is something that could be addressed with county. Okay. During the last bridge project I tried, and they basically said that there was no funding to remove anything there other than that bridge and that existing. Right. So yeah, I did kind of beat my head against the wall during that project. Okay. It's just something, you know, if not in the short term long term it needs to be addressed in order to recreate the natural flow. I know I'm preaching to the choir when I say this but it doesn't matter how much or how well you dredge if you have a point that's going to slow down water it's going to drop sediment and you're yeah it's no good. Because that bridge is choked off, I thoroughly believe that if you if we do a dredge it will maintain itself because water is going to be forced through that to keep it going. But yeah it will have to be. Yeah the problem is the railroads and the counties have on their bridges is changing the flow, changes how those are, I can't remember the word right now, how those are scoured out by the current. EDIs and stuff are creating out. So the scouring between that, I increasing the flow depends on how they design those piles based on current conditions that existed or did they take into account additional flow. It all depends because if they didn't, if we move that out, water is going to move faster and more directed through there and it's going to affect those piling. So that's something that'll have to be considered as part of the and overall plan to get that cleaned out. And I don't know there. I mean right now like I said literally at a low tide you're talking six inches of water across the entire thing. On the deep parts, the natural parts of the creek there, it's three feet, four feet. So it wouldn't be deep to get back to natural, but again, that would create a huge volume of water that could move, which would also then help Turnbull Bay help the whole way out. I think that's part of the issues on Turnbull Bay is the spruce creek bridge and the Turnbull Bay bridge. Both dammed that off and sediments were able to settle and silt up. But yeah that's... You remember how it happened? No. I mean the only other comment I could would make is I mean if you look at our intercoastal waterway around our bridges, you have a constant, whenever you slow down the flow of the water, you have a constant buildup of sand. We've seen that here at the South Causeway, where those docks that used to be 25 foot and they were out to, you know, fishable, are boating, you know, navigable water. Now there's sand bars and there's islands in front of those houses now. And so even with the, you know, the increased flow of water, that's something that when you get to a bridge or something that's going to slow the water down, you going to have to you know continually maintain or you know that water flow somehow. Question for done the the edge water money was that that's not a 15 million dollar grant I'm guessing it's a loan program? Where that slide went? I thought you said it was a grant. It was listed in the paper. That was my source. I got it out of the newspaper. Let's see if I can get to that page real briefly. Yeah, that's this one. This was Rebuild Flo Infrastructure Funding, and that was for the hurricane. This was a cost share, I believe. No, this was a grant. This was the one that was published in the newspaper about it. And then I went to the source for where they got it, and that's under that infrastructure grant program. Okay. When they opened that infrastructure program with that infrastructure bill, there are a whole lot of edges attached to it that allow for drainage increases and advancements in drainage canal systems and ditch systems to help us with these kind of problems from hurricanes and that's why they got this in place. So I say we take a high advantage of it if it's out there and the new grants will come out in November. It depends on what the matching requirement is and that's what I need to look at because we don't. Right now we've got probably almost $20 million of stormwater projects on the books that we're funding partially with grants and partially with local revenues. So I will look into this, but a key issue is that if there's a matching requirement, we've already got a significant investment in projects on the books already. Right. Well, this particular grant program was something that I couldn't, I didn't even know existed. I go to government.grant. I've searched several of them, but there are infrastructure grants, especially for agricultural zoning. If, like for example, if the Deering Park project were to stay agricultural zoning, he can qualify for up to $2 billion in grant money to help him drain sections of that land. Now, as long as he stays under an agricultural zoning, he can still put in a road, he can still put in buildings, and farm off every tree, doesn't have to cut them all down, and burn them, he can actually take to cut them all down and burn them. He can actually take money off of them. It's farming. It's what he's allowed to do. It's agriculture. So then he can still move forward if he's eventually going to clear the land and build houses, etc. But take advantage of that agricultural zoning designation now while you can collect on the bounty that's available from the state to help you get your land up the speed for drainage. That's what they're all about trying to get it done right, not drain the Everglades too much, you see. So that's why they're doing that. Okay, so what I guess I want to bring up is with the moving forward of the creek and what we're going to do with that. Can we draft a letter to request that the city as our recommendation is a board, that the city approach the county for funding to be directed to mosquito control over the next year to help maintain the openings on the Turnbull Creek. Yes. And what do you mean the openings on Turnbull Creek? If a tree goes down, that we call the Muscle you control, they come out, they get to tree out. Got it. If somebody throws a car off of the intersection. You know what I'm saying? So that we maintain. Trainage impediments. Exactly. So that they help with maintaining that or any connecting flows like underneath the jungle road where the Brazilian peppers are moving in that we can at least approach that through their funding for drink. Okay? I need a motion. I move that we I move that we draft a letter to the county as described Well, it would have to be moved to request the commission to approach the county I move to address the commission to approach the county I second Can you call the roll please. Member Warner. Here and yes. Member Roewicz. President. Chair Atherin. Yes. Thank you. Is the what a present is and yes there you go. So I'll draft up. This kind of an extension. Yes. I I'll draft up a letter to the Address it to the City Commission. May I ask, are we on the commission meeting tomorrow going to have any moments for review of our updates from the Terrible Creek Preservation Board. Is there 10 minutes to spare that I could present this? Not on tomorrow's, no, I mean. We can get you on the 27th, though. I'm not in town at the end of the month. So the first meeting may be September. September 10th. Do you know if there is a vote for the Deering Park, the zoning change on the 27th? I don't believe so, but I'll double check. I'd like them to hear this before we have that, if it's possible. If I can go in and do three minutes and just give them the letter from our board. Yeah, this is a good one. You could do your three minutes under public comment. OK. All right. I'll do what I can do. In the meantime, can you work with Kyle to see about maybe what you on that end? Because I don't know much about the North end. I'm really all the South end part. OK. Absolutely. And you're not on the creek at all No, you are on Ocean side, right? No, I live in Terrible states. Okay, so you're you're on the north end, too. Yes. Okay. All right. Well, that's still counts really we're out in there The village Okay, I'm on I'm up further north past Osprey Center. Okay. I'm right at the 10th green. Okay. On the 10th green. I'm on 14. Okay. We're neighbors practically. Okay. So I'll ask them to do that. And that has that was my presentation of this. So I can ex out and we can go right back to there. Okay, so I explained my research. I gave you all the stuff I knew about St. John's Water Management, the development west of town. Like I said, suggestions for that was to keep that zoning but that's beyond us. I just had it in there as I found from all the stuff I got. Grants for the agriculture, I'll explain that. And then the new property owner is approaching for land purchases. That was Linda Mitten. And I spoke to Linda Mitten. I'll move on to this piece. Linda Mitten has the eight acres of land to the west on state road 44 to Jungle Road. She has that wooded parcel right across Melisneakers where Temple Street is. She's right on the, her back door looks straight across at that wooded area. It's eight acres. I know that, I believe that USDA went out looks straight across at that wooded area, it's eight acres. I know that I believe that USDA went on and talked to her. She spoke with Brian Zalinsky about getting rid of the Brazilian peppers that are on that shoreline and on her side. And because there's just not much that they decided to let her, if she's gonna sell it, that would be us that she let's sell to the city. And talking with Linda, as I was sitting there, she was explaining to me there's manatees in there. So we contacted Chad up there at the Marine Discovery Center, and he got with the Marine people for the Manatees. There were seven of them there the day that Brian Zelinsky went in. So I was panicking, it was gonna shut off the job, you know, to get dredged, but it won't. But they said that Manatees have clearance on high tide to get in and out, possibly could have been caught on a tide by the Turnbull Bay Bridge, which may be good reason to bring up to them. Hey, you know, there's wildlife getting caught by this. And that is the whole Fish and Wildlife Grant program is there has to be a targeted species that is being affected by this. It has to be man-made all the factors that we do have for this and that's why I've been pursuing that because there are manate he's stuck on that side. And that's exactly what happened. Seven of them, one female. Really? Yeah, there is a new baby back there now. Yep. Yeah, I mean, new, new. Yeah. They call him Turnbull. Right, really? maybe in there. I mean, now I think we have grounds to get that end worked on under the marine help Florida Marine Patrol Act for conservation. So there may have we may have to approach that in a different way. Yeah. And that like I said that had been my approach with US Fish and Wildlife. So it's the same if depending on what direction we go. So should we recommend to the city also to approach fish and wildlife? Well we can set up a meeting with Robert and Tom and I to go over the program as he understands it and then we can make a staff recommendation to the commission. There you go. Okay. Now, as I understand, the term will create cleanouts going to take six months. Probably. If we can coordinate it and we get our feet moving on it right away, it's possible that that can happen right after. The core of engineers now is standard. I think that we're up as possible, especially for an endangered species. So I believe that would be possible. Yeah. I'm all for pushing. Okay. Well, let's plan that one. And so we know we've got a good six month of running room. So just contact me, Robert, when you're available, and we'll get together. Yeah. I'll make myself available. Okay. Just let me know when you want to come in and we'll get together. Yeah, I'll make myself available. So, okay, just let me know when you want to come in and we'll schedule time. Okay, would you like me to do that with Kyle and Tom the same time? Oh, just contact me, I'll make the other arrangements. Okay, yep. All right. You got your note about that? I do. You'll call the next one. You see the whip come right out on my photo. Okay, so with that landowner, with Linda Moulton, I've known him my whole life. So she's ready to sell to the city and I want to bring that part up. They are in a really nice spot. And it's a piece of parcel. It's a beautiful piece of parcel. Like I said, it's the West section. She's asking, you know, the 1.5 million. Now, 1.5 million is a lot of money, but I don't know how much of that is actually wetlands. Now, the front acre is zoned business, but the other seven acres is not, as I understand it, from what she's told me. So that may make a difference in the price. For the city, it makes no difference in the price because what we're going to do with it is we're going to put a perpetual conservation easement on it, which means forever more it's going to be like it is. No development, no building on it at all. So we have to have it, we require two appraisals. I don't think the commission would have to agree to that price and certainly they'll take into consideration the appraisals. We got an appraisal about a year ago for eight acres just down the road from there. No, it's not right on the canal, but it came in at about $350,000. We can't appraise the property based on its potential use and its zoning. We have to appraise the property based on what the use is going to be and it's going to be conservation purposes. I have serious concerns about spending several thousand dollars on appraisals that aren't going to come near to what the asking price is and then have the commission not approve the price. So if it was closer in what we thought was reasonably a market price for that, then we could do the appraisals and take it to the commission, better than a million and a half. At this point, I think we're throwing good money after a property that the commission might not have even approved for a million and a half dollars. Can I ask a question? Do we know has there been a wetland survey of that property? Do we know how much of it is wetland and how much of it's upland? Could it be a conservation easement that gives us the land along the creek and them the upland? So they still have the value of the commercial property? We can approach on providing the perpetual conservation easement. Yes. I know it's real wet on that bottom, but I don't know. I haven't walked up into the property. Well, it doesn't matter if it's wetlands or not. If we acquire it for conservation purpose, it was an easement over the entire property. It's much wetlands really is irrelevant. Now, I have a question on that because when we bought the parcel across the street by on Walker and we purchased that, that was, I believe, 5 million, wouldn't it? Yeah, but it was in 8 acre. I think it was significantly more than 8 acres. That was a 10 acre parcel. Okay, but that was purchased through the Florida Forever correct? I believe it was. Yes so that it wasn't the lion's share that was coming from the state so I don't think this city had consideration or concern over spending five million of the state's money versus 5 million of local revenues, of which we're only limited to $15 million in total. And we've really only got about 9 million left of that. Yeah. Personally, I believe it's worth them, no. But that's my opinion. I would say it'd be worth getting the appraisal, at least to have something more substantial substantial to take to the commission Yeah, because I mean if she's ready to sell and we're the first option to buy I certainly want to give her an option I agreed I agree So do you need us to make a motion to go forward with an appraisal? No, this body doesn't have the authority to direct appraisals. That's at this point that's an administrative decision. I will take your recommendation to the city manager. Because if we bought the 10 acres across the street and we paid, I know we paid more than 5 million for it because I cringed And it's on the creek a very narrow piece of creek I believe that there may be some potential with the land she has and knowing how much is Wetlands I guess matters or doesn't matter. It's not been changed on zoning for For conservation It's zoning right now is residential correct matters or doesn't matter, it's not been changed on zoning for conservation. It's zoning right now is residential. Correct. So it would I believe be appraised as that same zoning? Which is an overriding consideration of when we're buying it. If we were buying it for residential purposes, then we could make the position that yes, if the appraisal comes in and becoming higher, but we're not buying it for residential purposes. We weren't buying the other parcel for residential purposes either. Agreed, but then again. Yes. You have a question, ma'am? I recognize this is Lee. This is Lee Samaritan. The original term will create preservation bond was passed because the developer was going to develop the land. So it is planned for residential and because it was planned for residential building, we passed this bond to preserve the land. So if we keep with the original spirit we should be able to do the same thing. I've got a gentleman now speaking with he's got the one subdivision that's been up to the county several times and now he's wanting to sell. I mean it's almost 30 acres that he's offering to us 4 million and a half. So I'm... Well it still leaves us room. We've got 9 million left. I mean it's still 9 million and we take her and went 1 million and that 1 million I think we're in bargains right here. I mean that still leaves us a substantial amount not spent. Understand. And I mean, it's only a million. You're not spending 8 million to do it. I would move that we had asked you to take it to the commission for this to go through. I will take it to the city manager. Thank you. Yes. Of course. Thank you. Okay. And there. Thank you. Okay. And there we have it. So, next on this agenda item was any final analysis? Anybody have any other comments to make? Just question. The property that we do on I'm looking on this map is what is the, would there be a consideration of like ever turning that into a park? I just I know Louise Chaman who made or Developed Bruce Creek Park up by the the three bridges before you get into Porto on she was a school teacher and pretty much Went out there and did surveys and she was very instrumental in getting that area turned into a park. Is that something that we would pursue or like to pursue? So let me do this. Thank you. For the next meeting, I will bring you a list of what are the permitted uses under the conservation zoning that are on those properties and then we can look at the patent and the restrictions of the conservation easements that are in place. We can review that and then come back a recommendation on that. I know a lot of times when you make a park, especially at county or state park, all the invasive plants and things that aren't supposed to be there can be removed. Correct. So Sharon, if you would make a note to put on the next agenda, a discussion,ation, staff presentation and review of conservation zoning and conservation easement uses. Thank you. Okay, any other discussion on our recommendations? Well, the only thing that brought up with me is, have we looked at it and are we looking at anything to do something about the non ditches and invasive species on the shoreline? As we do these programs to dredge or clean up all the ditches, is an ideal time if we've got a subcontractor or contractor that's licensed to treat the Brazilian pepper. It's the main one. Donna in her work with USDA has found a program that will do that. Okay. And we're willing to apply for that, the issue that we're having is on timing. I don't want to apply for a grant where we have certain performance periods and we're still dealing with the term of the issue. So until the termable job is done and we see how much of that invasive species have been cleaned out as part of that project. Then we can approach the balance of the property, get a better estimate of the cost of what needs to be done, and then make an application to follow up. Great. We're going to do it in steps. start the dredging thing and they clean that out. Some of those will be pulled. I can't get the opening at the bridge at Jungle Road and we'll further down. So that'll be pulled away because you can't even get a boat through there now. So then we can overall advise better once we have that that view of approaching back approaching to USDA. And he's going to keep me posted on anything that comes up for the new November listings and the November programs. Also, Volusius Oil and Water has some available, and believe it or not, the Canal Society is also available. I had no idea there's actually a Canal Society, and they have monies from people who want to leave a legacy. Who Ray? And I have the place that a legacy will look just fine. So I will approach them also to follow up with them for other available things, to bring interest to even their group if they want to come join us, partner up with us. So there's some hope. There's hope. Let me ask you as I don't know. What is the difference between a canal and a ditch? I mean size-wise, is it sure it's just a? Yes. And I'd flip back to those maps. The South Florida canal systems were put in some of those canals are 20 feet wide and almost 15 feet deep, where a ditch is anywhere from 15 feet wide but shallower more of a five or six foot a formula between width and width to give flow and to give available transport of water and for basin control okay yeah I just didn't know the difference there's's a difference. Yeah, ditch can I mean I know the but and I Know what it was. Yeah, you know, that's basically a name is the creep but But I get South Florida. I mean I went on dates where they picked me up on the canal and took me down to canal to The downtown for Lauderdale and came back on the canal and went frogunting on it, I mean, it was just having a boat out there as like a car with no wheels. And it's just a transport system. That was my growing up. I grew up on a canal in Miami and I could go to the Africa Lades, go to the ocean. Yeah, it's all about movement. And this could be the same kind of a system. It's just that in this particular moment with people from the nation bay that have no flow out I mean they built this development in the middle of a Cyprus hammock what did you think was gonna happen his happened and so getting that water out the only way You're gonna convey the water is through a canal system not a ditch to take little bits You're gonna have to have it deep enough and white enough to transport the waters away from it. And then to a different opening that takes it out. But right now you don't have that. You have the SAMHSAUALA canal system that isn't a system. It's a SAMHSAUALA canal. Again, put there for farming, but never completed to get water out of the place. It was to keep water there so that they could keep a mosquito fish there that they didn't have to have sprays going on all the time when you're farming the land. Because mosquitoes and sandouts are horrible out there. So to connect that to something in Port Orange, which would be to get it to Spruce Creek, or to connect itself to edge water on 442 and ditch it or canal it all the way out to the Indian River would be the only other way you're gonna make this work. You can't develop any other way. It's, I mean, you gotta do it safely, but you gotta do it with levies. You've gotta do it dams, and you've to do it with lifts. Or you can basin the water in some spot and keep it there. And treat it if you have to. Now, I'll tell you one other thing, just out of comments. I found out with St. John's Water Management District, there's the railroad, and then God, you said, well, with St. John's Water Management, there's DOT, and then there's God, and then there's the railroad. Because DOT has drained the water out of the shopping center on State Road 44 with publics is into that Turnbull Creek since that shopping center went in and nobody can stop them. You know why? Because they are grandfathered in forever. They don't have to put a treatment center part in there. They don't have to do anything to capture the water that comes off of that shopping center parking lot before it goes into the creek. So it's always going to have pollution and there you have it until you change it. And that can't be, that's just the way it is. You can do a little bit to help but you can't fix it. Any other comments? Discussion? No. Thank you so much for showing up. We're going to end the meeting at 4.50. 3.50. You're all right. you you