the good evening. The time is now 503 in the war. City Council Finance Committee is in session. May I have a motion to approve the minutes for the September 4th, 2024 meeting? So moved. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Oh, did you second? I'm sorry. Did you second? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. On to PCR, 89-24, resolution, resolution of two bids. May I have a motion for acceptance of the meeting minutes held on September 4th, 2024. So, move. Second. All in favor. Aye. Thank you. Item number one is bid 2025 130. This is OHCD, Padula Square Improvements. This is Fauna Page 1. Good evening, Chief of staff. Good evening, Bill Facente, chief staff and community development program manager. Madam before you asking for approval and the amount of $78,310 to make improvements to the Padula Square. It's located in the East Nadek area of the city between West Pontiac and Pontiac streets. We talked at length about abandoning some property in the right away to make this project happen the last two months. This is for the actual construction of the square. What it is is a traffic calming measure. The neighborhood association put this in its master plan. I believe in 2009 and takes a little time. the state of the state. So I'm going to go ahead and measure the neighborhood association. Put this in its master plan. I believe in 2009. And takes a little time. This is endorsed by the neighborhood association and we are going to need to change the budget code. So I guess I'll need an amendment as well. We went out to bid. We see five responses to the bid. We had 10 vendors at the mandatory pre-bid, five of the responders. There was one wallet company, where God works in, and they happened to also be the lowest qualified bidder. Prices ranged from a low of $78,310 to a high of $125,975. Any questions? Thank you, Chief. I'd like to give, if it's okay with this committee, pass on a statement and or question award eight, Councilman Sennapi, since this will be in his ward. Any objections? No, thank you. Councilman Sennapi, this will be in his ward. Any objections? No, thank you. Councilman Sinapi, would you like to add? Other than doing enthusiastic request approval, that's about it. Thank you. Any questions, comments from this committee that can top that? There are no questions, are there any questions, comments from members of the council? Are there any questions, comments from members of the council? Are there any questions, comments from members of the public? Thank you, Chief. Thank you, Councilman. Mr. Chairman, I do need to amend the budget code. Oh, thank you so much. Yes, please. So the first budget code is going to be remain the same 510-05718, the amount of $14,753.74. The second budget code will be changed from 510-0400 to 510-05059. Can you 510-05059? Same dollar amounts. 0505. Yes. Thank you. And what was that amount, please? 63,556 dollars and 26 cents. So I'm going to read it back to you, Chief, and Solicitor, just to verify that I got the numbers correct. Before I read it back, Chief, may I have the correct and a budget code that was staying, the budget code that we're staying, the budget code that we're keeping. 510-05718. In the amount of $14,753.74. And if you don't mind, I'll say that the budget code in the amount of $63,556.26 is being changed from 510400 to budget code 510505. So one more time. So I don't know if I have to be exact, but the budget code 510-0400 is being changed to 510-05059. 05059, that's what I missed. Okay, thank you. For 63,055626. Yes. Okay. We have, hold on one moment, I'm just going to update one more thing in my notes. So, for the record, for clarification, bid 2025 130 is now PCR 9024. It is to keep budget code 510 0518 in the amount of $14,753.74. We are amending from budget code 510-4002 budget code the $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 $5.00 I believe you forgot a number in the keep the original 510-05718. Mr. Chairman. That's why we do this. So the only change chief is the striking 510-0400 and replacing with 510-050-59. All other numbers are the same. So, a amendment would only need to make that one change. Thank you. Clearly made it more complicated than needed to be. I just want to make sure I get the notes correct. Thank you. Okay. So, to keep it clear, are there any questions, comments on the change from members of the committee? Questions comments from members of the council? Questions comments from members of the public? May I have a motion on the amendment? favourable action? second. I have a motion for favourable. I have a second. all in favour? aye. I have a motion for favourable. I have a second. All in favour? Aye. May I have a motion on PCR 90-24 as amended. Move favour, action. Second. All in favour? Aye. Thank you, Chief. At this time, there are four items left on the docket. I am going to go through the committee through the Council and then through the public. If there is an item that they would like to discuss on this docket, please indicate when I get to the call it out. I would like to begin. I'm going to request we speak on bid 2025-186. DPW purchased new tires found on page 12. Are there any items within the bid package members of this committee would like to discuss. Thank you. Are there any items within this bid package that members of the council would like to discuss? Councilman Latticell. I would like to discuss 2023-27 state of Rhode Island premium diesel found on page four. Councilman Latticell requests bid 2023-257 D.B.W. the . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . the council would like to discuss. Are there any items members of the public would like to discuss? Thank you. As always, I think it's just convenient to go in order. So we'll begin with bid number two. I apologize. Item number two, bid 2023-257, DPW, State of Rhode Island, premium, diesel exhaust fluid. This is found on page four, director of DBW purchasing, if you don't mind introducing an announcement lattice or you have the floor. Christine, we're ready, public works. Thank you, thank you, Chairman. So when I look at the numbers, this original bid was 120,000, and you've had it in place now for about 10 months, actually 22 months. And that averages out over the bid time of about $5,000 a month. So I was wondering why you feel you need $35,000 for the last two months, as opposed to what you've been averaging per month of $5,000. So we've had some excessive repairs, particularly for the sanitation fleet. So when we have a hydraulic leak, when there's a transmission problem, even when they do a regular oil change, the volume is a lot. Plus this also covers our grease and our death fluid, which at this point probably a percent of our fleet uses the diesel vehicles also have an ad lift to the fluid which is it's diesel exhaust fluid it's deaf for short. So while I don't anticipate that we will spend $35,000 I would like to make sure that we have the items we have the ability to order any of the products that we might need between now and the end of November. So you feel you need to have a cushion of three and a half times the amount that you've had to have or that you've used over the last 22 months. Well, like I said, we've had some excessive repairs lately. And, you know, our hydraulic tanks are 120 gallons. So that's two and a half drums, basically. Are there any incumbences at this time? No, I don't, there might be a small one for these exhaust fluid, which is usually around $10,000. But last year we spent, well, in fiscal year 23, we spent $47,712. In fiscal year 24, we spent 64,446. Although, let me just backtrack a second, the full amount for fiscal year 23 doesn't necessarily count towards the cap. And then we, and that's just for our motor oil line item, which is where all of our fluids come from, all of our graces, all that kind of stuff. So that, those numbers also don't include the, the deaf fluid that we purchased. So like I said, it, it is a question for us. It's not that we need or are going to spend it but if we need to order six drums of automatic transmission fluid that are almost five thousand dollars a piece then I want to make sure the department has it so we can continue to keep the trucks on the road Are there any open invoices as of today? I believe there are a couple invoices in about 9,300. 9,300 in totality. You said you believe there's a couple. So it's a total of 9300 of open invoices right now. I believe so. Is that not 100% positive on that number but okay approximately so this 35,000 dollar extension is going to be used to pay for the 9300 of invoices that are outstanding right now. No we have but we do have a bit of a cushion left on the cap that we originally awarded. I'm just asking for spending authority. So we don't run into a problem where if I can't, if we need something and we're, we don't have enough spending authority to buy it. And I don't, the council meeting is, it's not timely for us to do that. It's, I'm just looking forward. I understand. What is left in that line item now? The bid cap or the bid? Out of the 120,000. What's the balance as of today? Well, the bid cap is 120,000 right now. So right now, we have about 5, this 9,300 came off the 13,000. So we probably have around 4,000 or 5, this 9300 came off the 13,000 so we probably have around 4,000. Okay. I'm sorry, do you say 4,000? Yes. Okay. Left. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you for that. Christie. Thank you, Chairman. Yes, sir. Are there any further questions from members of the council? Are there any questions from members of the public? Please tell the microphone One moment, please, Miss Sharon Thank you. Thank you. So in this matter, and I've seen a few others, the city operates on a fiscal year, and this contract is ending in November. Why are we extending it to June 30th and have all of the contracts valid coincide with our fiscal year spending and not just have this end and then the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the and the any further questions from members of the public. Thank you. Next is bid 2025-186. I request this purchase of new tires found on page 12. Chrissy earlier this week upon reviewing this. I noticed that it was a small amount. I'm used to seeing six digits, like you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars for the fleet of vehicles. And I noticed this one was 30. And then I also noticed that we usually, if I understand it correctly, we have Sullivan tire. And so there was a question of why are we going out to bid for a supplementary? And the answer I got is, which I agree with, I just want to put it on record, okay? Good year is the supplier and they are out of Ohio. Sullivan is a local good year dealer. They are the local, pizza's local in Providence and will only be utilized if we cannot get tires that need them immediately. So with that you didn't you did explain why the amount in my mind when we talk about tires and I'm not taking this term lightly but is so low you know it's it's a 30 but this is a preventative maintenance if you will. So if Sullivan is late or good year, cannot supply those tires right away. We have an alternate we can go to get those tires replaced to get those vehicles back on the road and to keep the constituent services going. Correct. Okay. Thank you. So this is just from that area there. So we're still utilizing Sullivan's this is just an alternate kind of like when we do paving or when your department does paving you have a primary But if they say hey, we're not going to get there you have a secondary that you can go to yes, thank you Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me Any questions for members of this committee Any questions for members of the council? Councilman Ladisaur. How many vendors bid on this originally? Two. The two that the chairman just alluded to? Yes. So Pete's tire bond didn't buy the bidding last time. They did not. And instead of going with the other company that did bid, you're requesting that we award or at least add to the vendor list a company that didn't bother bidding in the first place. Correct. Why? Because as the chairman just stated, the good year, the good year bid that was submitted, that company is out of Ohio. And Sullivan Tire is our local good year distributor. So why good year bid against their local distributor, I have no idea. However, Pete's tire barn is right in Providence. So the only reason we would go to Pete's for any tires is if Sullivan cannot provide us with whatever size tire we need for whatever vehicle. If we can get it from Pete's, then we will go get it from pizza and have it mounted here. But the problem is is that we can't down trucks because we can't get tires, particularly sanitation. So that's why we're asking to add this vendor. In the event that we have a truck that needs tires, and Sullivan can't provide them for us immediately, because usually when we need tires, we need them either next day or whatever. Sullivan can't do that, we have an option where we can get the tires on the truck and get it back on the road. So, Sullivan tire is the distributor for good year, right? They're, yes, they're a good year distributor that. A distributor of good year, right? Yes, they're good. You're distributor that a distributor of good year. Yes. And is peach tire bond also a distributor of good year? I couldn't confirm that. The tires that you would anticipate purchasing from peach tire bond will they be good yet tires? I couldn't confirm that either. If we're going to peets to get tires it's the size that we're looking for not the brand. So Sullivan's tire, do they handle only good yet tires? I think they also do bridge stone? There might be one other. Do they handle the same tires as peach tire bond would handle? Well, they handle the same size tires. So my point is you don't have to have good year tires. If you don't have a good yearyear tire available in a particular size that you need, solid-and-tire would have other options available to you. It just wouldn't necessarily be a good-year tire. As Pete's tire bond, they apparently can't provide you with a good-year tire, but they could provide you with something else. It just it seems it seems unfair to me that here we are once again going to potentially reward a company that didn't bother taking the time to bid on something in the first place. So they were obviously too busy or we're not interested. But now here we are. We have three or four other options with Sullivan Tire to keep the business there with a different manufacturer, but we want to, for some reason, put Peach Tirebond on the vendor list. Our interest is to keep the trucks on the road. If we can get them from our bid vendor, then we'll absolutely do that. But our interest is not the brand of tire or where it comes from. We're asking permission to do the right thing by the residents of the city. We don't care if they say, Mickey Mouse's tire, we need the tire to put on the vehicle. We can't down trucks because we can't get tires for three days. I understand. And I also understand that you said that Sullivan tire has three or four other brands of tires that you could use. Correct. And we do. But if they can't provide us the size, then they can't give us the time. Mm-hmm. Mr. Chairman, never mind. It's not going to matter. Further questions from members of the council. Questions for members of the public. Hearing none, may I have a motion on PCR89-24? Thank you. Most favourable action. Second. All in favour? Aye. Thank you. Next is PCR-88-24. A resolution relative to issuing requests for proposals for community projects. This is put forward by Council President. McCallister, Council President. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are a number on this, this docket here. Ward two, Noah Wood, Gazibot repairs. Ward two, Noah Wood Park Community Garden, ADA compliant path and park benches. Ward two, Drain and Boulevard asphalt, path, berm, tree plantings and benches. Ward two, Fairfax, Island Repairs, and Tree Plantings, Ward Four, Walto Santos, Outlook, Park Bench, Ward Six, Oakland Beach, and City Park Beach Sand, Ward Six, C, View Drive, Solar Powered Speed Signs, and I also wanted to make sure that the Council members were aware that also within this resolution here, we made a note we want to make sure that all Harper funds are spent, where we are not spent. So if in case there's one reward that has $500 left or $1,000 left or $10 left, any funds that are left over that need to be allocated by the end of this year will be allocated by this resolution to the Paving and Asphalt budget within your award. So we're just covering all the bases here. Please continue to put in your your award requests on that. But if there are any funds remaining by the deadline here, they will go into Paving and Asphalt budget to serve the public. Thank you. Thank you, Council President. Any comments from members of the Council? Okay, Councilwoman Travis, thank you. The correct, well maybe the president didn't read that last line. It says what six-sevew drive in Piquat Avenue, solar, powerwood, speed signs. Do you see that? Okay. All right. I just wanted to make sure Piquat was in there. Thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman. Are there any other questions, comments from members of the council? Any questions, comments from members of the public? May I have a motion? May we have a favour, action? Second. All in favour? Aye. Thank you. The time is now 529 in the work. Finance committee is closed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The next committee to me is the ordinance committee and that can start at 6 p.m. So we'll see you back here at 6 o'clock. So the ordinance committee will convene at 6.01 p.m. First things first, we do not have everybody at this time. So do we have a tag in? So first on the dockets, dockets, try again, round two. First on the docket, except in sub minutes from the council meeting held on August 19, 2024. Do we have a motion? Move to approve. Second, all in favor. Aye. Next, we have PCO 9-24 in ordinance to prohibit through trucking on Pilgrim Parkway, Easton Avenue, Partition Street, and Wood Avenue, South of Post Road, and Atlantic Avenue between Post Road and Warrick Avenue. This would be first passage in its councilman ricks. Thank you. I'll request favourable action and at the pleasure of the chair. I have a few short comments. How about it? Thank you. So the Pogrum neighbourhood, Spring Green neighborhood, there are some other neighborhoods in that immediate vicinity. The general idea here is that 18 wheelers, large box trucks, they'll sometimes cut across these city streets in order to get from post road to Warwick Ave. In reality, what should be happening is that all of these large trucks should be sticking to the state roads. That is, post-road, Warwick Avenue, airport road, they shouldn't be cutting through that neighborhood. We already have ordinances on the books. This is amending an ordinance that is on the books to add these five streets. So the ordinance on the books already prohibits through trucking on Fairfax Drive, Sandpond Road, Bucklin, Massa Soiet, and some other streets right in that area. And so by adding these five, the idea is that there's no sneaky way through to cut through the neighborhood to try to save that couple of minutes at the expense of disturbing the neighbors and all that wear and tear on our city streets. Let the wear and tear be on the state streets, which are actually designed for these kinds of weight limits. on our city streets. Let the werentair be on the state streets which are actually designed for these kinds of weight limits. Specifically, this deals with Pogrom Parkway, eastern Avenue, partition street, and would Avenue South of Post Road, and Atlantic Avenue between Post Road and Warwick Avenue. So, this will tighten up that ordinance so that there is no possible way for these trucks to cut through that neighborhood without violating this ordinance. It's certainly not going to solve the problem because ultimately, as noted in the favorable traffic study, ultimately it is a matter of enforcement that that's actually going bit simpler for the police to enforce this as well because the police may not necessarily need to follow a vehicle all the way through the neighborhood because these streets are listed individually and if one of these big box trucks or 18 wheelers is a little bit simpler for the police to enforce this as well because the police may not necessarily need to follow a they call all the way through the neighborhood because these streets are listed individually. And if one of these big box trucks or 18 wheelers is cutting through one of these particular streets, it seems to me that the intent of this ordinance and the way that the ordinance will read is such that if that big box truck enters one of those particular streets and the police see them exiting that particular street, the police officer doesn't have to necessarily catch them going through the entirety of the neighborhood. So I know that this is a little bit unusual to have five streets added all at once to the ordinance, but it is supported by a favorable traffic study and that's the logic. Thank you. Any questions or comments from members of the committee? Any questions or comments from members of the council? Any questions or comments from members of the public? Of course. Just a quick thought. We're going to be putting up school cameras, school zone cameras, red light cameras, perhaps we could explore the idea of capturing certain type plate types. And then you want to worry about the and the other one is the one of the other. The other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the other one is the I think could really stop the whole problem. Can you just identify yourself please too? I'm sorry. Can you identify yourself for a little? Sorry, in Sheridan. Thank you. Thank you. Of course. Works better when the mic is turned on. Thank you, Chairman. And to respond to the public comments, I wholeheartedly agree with that. I don't believe that the cameras are set up in that way currently, but if the administration were able to find a way to add that type of capability, I would be all for it. Anything to make the job easier, make this all that much more enforceable, and hopefully the mere existence of those know-through trucking signs and those various cameras, I would hope would have a bit of a deterrent effect so that we can mitigate that problem in the first place. Ultimately, just like everything else with the cameras, it's simply not designed for this. Thank you. Yeah, random fun story. Ultimately, just like everything else with the cameras, it's really not about generating revenue. It's about changing the behavior so that these massive trucks aren't barreling down the road, creating a safety hazard. Otherwise putting all that. Unnecessary wear and tear on the city roads that are simply not designed for this. Thank you. Yeah, random fun story. I got to watch a tractor trailer get stuck on hard egg road and the cops had to show up. It's a good time. All right, any other questions or comments? Any party? All right, seeing none, do we have a motion? Move favorable action. Motion made in second it all in favor? Aye. Aye. Next we have a PCO 13-24 at an ordinance requiring a public hearing before the City Council regarding the five-year budget forecast. This would be first passage in its councilman Ladisood. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I am going to ask our council solicitor to speak to the language regarding public hearing. I had not requested to have this done at a public hearing, which would require a stenographer and costs and expenses that are not necessary. What I am looking for is for a comment period, a question and answer period, if you will, at a council meeting regularly scheduled or at a special council meeting. So the intent is not to have public caring, but I'll ask the solicitor to just clarify that. Through the chair. Thank you, Councilman Chairman. This is certainly something that can be clarified before the Council itself with the clarifying amendment. Your intent is put on record. So if we can certainly address that at the council level and I'll finalize that language accordingly, should that be in play? OK. So the reasoning that I've presented this ordinance is I believe that when we're discussing the finances of a $360 million a year budget or corporation or however you happen to view it. I believe that it's very important to be as open and as forthcoming as possible with these five year forecasts. I think these forecasts are as possible with these five-year forecasts. I think these forecasts are extremely important, particularly for the members of the public and the taxpayers who are not involved in this on a day-to-day basis or even on a monthly basis or even a quarterly basis. Oftentimes these forecasts and numbers that they're viewing are, it's the first time C. And there are many questions that people have regarding this. And I believe it's a disservice to not have or not allow the members of the public to have an opportunity to ask these questions when this five-year forecast is being presented. There are oftentimes I found, regardless of the research and time and effort that I put into a particular item that as discussion continues to move along at a council meeting, there's other things that trigger more questions for me. Questions I may not have had until that very moment. I also realize that doing a five-EF forecast is a challenge. And in the private sector, we have to do them actually on a regular basis. If we are approaching a lender for a line of credit, we have to present them with a lot of financial information. We have to answer a lot of questions. We have to also anticipate that some ways along the line, we may have a disruption in that forecast. We may have such as in the 1990, really 1990, the banking crisis, such as three recessions, including the great recession, and including COVID. That certainly will have an impact on making adjustments to a five-year forecast. But that shouldn't preclude us from having an open discussion on and about that five year forecast. It shouldn't preclude us from affording members of the public to ask those questions during a council meeting on the record. And it certainly shouldn't preclude us from having those questions answered as they are presented. And those are the reasons why I am respectfully requesting favourable action on this. I certainly don't understand why there would be an objection to hearing the questions that are asked from members of the public. We got us of whether or not we happen to agree with those questions. Regardless whether or not we have a problem with those questions, I think it's prudent upon us as a governing body to afford that opportunity to anyone that takes the time to come here and have those questions answered, which include questions sometimes difficult. Why wasn't this included? Why wasn't that included? Why was this? Why was that? And in spite of submitting those questions in writing, it still doesn't always result in a chess game back and forth, that doesn't make any sense either. So with that said, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully requesting favourable action on PCO 13-24. Thank you. All right. Are there any comments or questions from members of the committee? Council President McAllister. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So on this particular one, I just give my thoughts on that. You know, the five-year plan is not something that the council votes on, or can change. There's always going to be questions about the assumptions that are made. Why was this included? Why wasn't this included? And I think that's what most of the questions would be based on. The other fact on these five year plans, the report is instantly dated almost immediately. For example, this last report that came out this summer and July and updated in August, it didn't factor in. We had just after the report came out, we sold additional school bonds. And we actually had a lower rate that was projected in the five year report, and it was actually a $700,000 plus improvement towards the city. So it would have made the report look even better. And that's just an example could go the opposite way, of course, if the interest rates were higher than what was projected. So that's my concerns with having, I think it's important that the five year plan is done. It's also part of the state requirement. We have it presented to the council. It is made public. It is presented to the council, so everybody is aware of it. But it's just one part, it's just one tool. It's one report that again, the council does not vote on. It's not like we approve a five-year plan or we're going to take a vote on the five-year plan. Additionally and I give it's almost redundant because we have something in place that I think is much more beneficial to the Council and the taxpayers already on the books and that is rule 42, which was sponsored by Councilman Lannister and Councilman Rick's, which we passed this past year, the Council, which I support and still support, and that has to do with inviting the actuary to come and give a presentation to the City Council before the budget. So I think that report is what we should be focusing on because that is something that the actuary will come, they'll give us hard numbers, especially right before we do the budget. And the budget is something that we vote on as council members and it's the number one thing that we vote on. So my suggestion is that we use the actual report, Rule 42, we haven't implemented it yet. So credit gives to my colleagues for putting that forward. I think that's something that we should do before this next budget here. And I think that's kind that we should do before this next budget here. And I think that's kind of a report that has more teeth and there's something that we can drill down on. And it's directly benefit to that year's budget that is coming up, which the council will vote on. So that's my thoughts on this proposal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Council member. on this proposal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Councilor Erick? Thank you. I think that Council President Macalister has raised some good points. However, I would tend to side in favor of this ordinance, and that's because while World 42, that presentation is going to be important to have before the budget hearings, by and large, many really, the vast majority of costs that are in the city budget have to do with pensions, benefits, salary salary of course. So the five-year plan tends to be heard, rather tends to be presented, and otherwise submitted to the state. Generally before, we, on the city council, review the various contracts with the collective bargaining units. And I think that there is a benefit to having hearing of the five-year plan at that point in time as well. Even for the years where there are no collective bargaining agreements coming up for ratification. There is some benefit as well to having this type of hearing in the late summer or early fall in addition to having the rule 42 type of hearing in the or at least opportunity to receive that information, ask questions, etc. Even if not as a technical matter, so-called public hearing with a stenographer. But yeah, putting that aside, I do see the benefit in having this second opportunity each year to review, look at the big picture. Obviously everything when it comes to the budget is a moving target, but having those two opportunities per year I think is in that positive. Thank you. Any other questions or comments or members of the council? Councilman Geburt. Thank you, Chairman. So, yeah, I think a lot of this type of forecasting activity. And larger organizations have someone in charge of financial planning and analysis or something, and it's literally their whole job to put together these type of forecasts and scurry around and review it with stakeholders, with inside, outside, board. And the one thing I could say about a forecast is no forecast ever gets worse based on having more input. And so while this may be, you know, taxing for the finance director to come here and stand up and get a whole bunch of questions from the public, you know, if even one of those adds a new perspective, I think it is overall helpful. I completely acknowledge what the Council President said, which is that as soon as you print this thing, it's effectively worthless, right? Because the world changes and interest rates change and everything else changes. But talking through those future scenarios, none of us have a crystal ball, the finance director doesn't have a crystal ball, the finance director doesn't have a crystal ball. But talking through those scenarios helps illuminate the different conditions that could happen out into the future. And it takes some of the surprise out of, you know, when we get three years from now, we've had ample opportunity to talk about what some of the things that may or may not happen are. So, I'll, you know, keep an open mind here. Certainly don't want to be doing this type of activity, you know, once a month or something. It's far too frequent. But as part of our overall financial management practice here, we have the budget. Now we have the actuary and potentially now we have a session on our five-year plan. I, or five-year forecast. We call it the five-year plan, but it's more of a five-year financial forecast. I don't see where it's going to introduce a lot of harm. If anything, it just brings in more input, softens the blow and And you know provides more transparency and more opportunity to interact With the future of the of the city's finances. So I don't think it's a terrible idea, but I will listen to others. Thank you Any other questions or comments from members of the council. Councilman how? Thank you so much, Chairman, very quickly. I, of course, do not support this resolution or ordinance because we have a budget hearing every year and I'm going to pick you back on what the council president said because we have a budget hearing every year and I'm going to kind of piggyback on what the council president said. We have a budget hearing every year and every year the new challenges that are before us are in that budget and every year the city on the responsibility of the corner office, the chief executive and his that team within the corner office, the chief executive, and his that team within the corner office, their responsibility is to put together a budget that we pinpoint and break down every year. What this is doing is taking a five-year forecast and they want to nitpick or pinpoint a five-year projection, if you will. We do that during the budget season. We do that during the budget season. And that goes along with what the council president said. This five year forecast is just that we cannot we cannot decide or predict what storms are coming in a matter of one year than what we can do with this financial forecast. That's what the budget hearings are for, and each one of us dedicate an entire week, and or I should say, an entire month of a lot of home study of that budget, contacting, calling, seeking answers of that budget. All these questions can be addressed. And then of course, the long term can also be if people actually look at it with an open mind and an open eyes. The long term can be kind of, you could see the path of where we're going every year in that annual budget. This five-year budget is a responsibility of the corner office to say here's what we anticipate. So to spend a comment on that five-year budget to me seems redundant and it's curious where the idea came from, but no need to answer, I know. And it just, we do this every May, it's budget season. And we go over the budget every May. And as the council president said, that is what we vote on. Thank you. Any other questions or comments from members of the council? Councilman Foley. Thank you. Just, I'll try to be quick. I, I support Councilman Howell and Council President McAllister. Five years ago when I first ran for the seat, I ran with the pleasure of making the council more effective and efficient. This does not do that. To nitpick, I'm sorry, I don't want to use a word nitpick. To pinpoint questions in a five year forecast is not effective, is not efficient. As the council president said, we have the actuary coming here with hard numbers to in entering our questions. And then as councilman Howell said, we have a month of May dedicated to the budget, three to four nights. And we will stay here as long as necessary to have the questions answered. By being effective and efficient, you call the directors ahead. You ask your questions. You do your homework. To put on a public display, simply to campaign is not effective, is not efficient, and is not the role of this council. Thank you. Any other members of the council that haven't spoken? Councilman Latiser. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's actually surprising to me to hear anyone saying that people who are asking questions about a five year forecast are nitpicking. This is not efficiency isn't about how quick we can get out of this chamber. Efficiently is how efficient we can overview and oversee the financial expenses of the city. Just as a quick point of order of Councilman Lattice. He clarified that he didn't actually mean that picking. Just wanted a quick point of order, Councilman Lattice, he clarified that he didn't actually mean that picking. Just wanted to point that out. Point taken. To think that it's okay to alienate the public or to restrict their ability to ask questions about items in a five year forecast that by the way, maybe helpful. It may just present a different spin on what our financial future holds. It may also include items that were not included for whatever reason in this financial five year forecast. This is how entities and government gets in trouble when there are differences in financial forecasts that are not discussed and that are not disseminated. And what I don't think it's going to be a great deal. I think it's going to be a great deal. I think it's going to be a great deal. I think it's going to be a great deal. I think it's going to be a great deal. I think it's going to be a great deal. I think it's going to be a great deal. I think it's going to be a great deal. I think it's right to be heard. Whether we agree with the questions or the message or the messenger, it's not for us to determine. But as a legislative branch of government, and as that branch of government who is essentially responsible for every nickel and dime that spent over $2,500. We have an obligation, my opinion. We have an obligation to hear from the public, to hear what they have to say, to hear their questions, and to get those questions answered. Here in public on the council floor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Do any members of the public have any questions or comments? Oh, I apologize, Mr. Sheridan. Councilman Foley? To clarify, efficiency has nothing to do with getting out those doors. I'm an English teacher. Efficiency is getting to the point, getting the information in an effective way. Campaigning at the podium or at your seat is not effective or efficient. That's a, I'm not denying anybody the access to ask questions. They can email me, they can call me, they can email the chief of staff, they can call the mayor's office. And then if they want to, when the five year actuary, I'm sorry, when the actuary comes, there's a time for questions. And that's Councilman Howe points out in the month of May, when we do the budget, they can ask questions, specific questions. One of the point of clarification, I clarified myself, I did not mean to say nitpick, I went to point out to pinpoint. That's what when the actuary is here, and that's what we do when the budget is in front of us. Thank you. Miss Sheridan. Sorry, go ahead. And please, even though I'm identifying you, please identify yourself for the record. I'm sorry. Please go ahead and do the usual identifying yourself for the record. And Sheridan. I've been a resident of Wallworks since 1970. I've lived in awards eight and nine my entire life. I've only been coming to these council meetings regularly for the last year and a half. I think the obviously since I'm standing here in one of the few residents that's been listening to this, I think that I just a discussion about the five-year plan is warranted. There are 8,000 and eight single family homes in the city of Walwick owned by senior citizens. 8,000 that's over 30% of the households, probably even more than that, that are seniors. Most of us budget, we all do projections. Many of us are going to be looking at how long we can stay in our houses. You're going to be faced with the revaluation coming up and people looking to you to freeze taxes because the abundance of seniors think that you should freeze taxes. I don't agree with that because I don't think the city can handle it. You have hearings for the count for the budgets and they are in my opinion slam dunk. I mean, I've sat and listened to a few people come back and get a little twister here or there. But most of all when the administration sets a budget forward, it's going to go forward. And then you demand whether you like it or not that we pay the bill because you approve the budget. It's a calculation of the budget versus the assessed value. You get a tax rate and you send out a bill and we pay it. And yes, we can come to these meetings, but most people don't even realize that the meetings are going on. I mean, we had this bloody discussion about whether property tax information is going to be in the calendar or not. There's not even a calendar note that this council meetings going on. And you tell me that everything is on the website. Well, I'm pretty efficient at websites, and I've worked a long time, but I'm one of those seniors that has worked and has stayed up to date with technical changes. It is nothing wrong with giving people the opportunities to hear what the forecast is. We are being people are afraid over financing the schools and they need more information. If you all you all voted slam dunk that we were going to get two new schools and that we're going to be stuck with paying $350 million for a smaller footprint and we have to pay this. I'm not leaving. Many of you are leaving the council. Give the next administration an opportunity to have this meeting. If you don't want it to be a council meeting, then maybe let's ask the mayor to do it and have the administration handle it. But there is nothing wrong with providing us with more information. I mean, I've looked at a couple of things just on the forecast and I'm like wondering, where is this coming and I will bring it up when I have a chance to speak later. But I certainly, certainly believe that there should be an opportunity and I know all the pitfalls and I know all the same people that are going to get up and you're going to be disgusted to hear some of these people again and again and again say the same people are going to get up and you're going to be disgusted to hear some of these people again and again and again and again say the same redundant things. But they have valid concerns and they're concerns you have all heard in every one of your conversations with your with your constituents. And yes, we can email people and sometimes we get email because you all know I email you all sometimes. And sometimes I get answers and sometimes not. And God bless my councilman. He puts up with me a lot because he gets a lot of emails and text messages almost daily, I guess, and some of them are multiple times a day. I wanna say I represent probably most of the 8,000 senior homeowners in the city. People need to know they can stay and they're not going to be forced out. And the only way is to have an honest discussion about what the future looks like. I plan to be here five years from now, and my finances tell me I can do that. And a lot of us, some seniors have financial advisors, you know, we're lucky enough, and some don't. And we've had this discussion many times about is that the city's responsibility to keep people in the house or not. And maybe a discussion about five years would be enough the other thing that I'm thinking about is that the city's responsibility to keep people in the house or not. And maybe a discussion about five years would be enough for people to say maybe it's time for me to move into something else. Thank you. Any other members of the public wish to speak on this? And chief, do you have anything on behalf of the administration? Good evening, Bill Focente, Chief Staff, Mayor Pagosi. Not going into the details again, what council president MacKallis said and councilman, how it is, it's a forecast. The hurricane forecast, the precipitation forecast, forecast in stock markets, it's a point in time. As soon as that paper is printed, it's out of date. To be questioned on assumptions that are pretty well spelled out in the memo from Director Shaffer, as far as the administration feels is not necessary, this administration is one of the most transparent that I've worked for. And anytime anyone wants to ask a question they can contact me. But to have a director Schaeffer or whoever is in his place come before the city council and be asked on a forecast that he's not a, they are not psychics, there's no crystal ball. It's a point in time. And as they said, as soon as it's printed, the information is stale. And being questioned on the assumptions is just, it's not what the council's role is. You can't vote on it. So I have to say. All right. So I have to say. All right. So at least, oh, man, go ahead or miss Sheridan, sorry. We all understand that a forecast is a moment in time. It's just a forecast. Nobody's expecting anybody to nail anybody to commit to anything. You commit to a forecast. Nobody's expecting anybody to nail anybody to commit to anything. You commit to a budget that's even fluid. Budgets are overspent, underspends. We all understand that. What people would appreciate is being treated like adults that can look at something that happens to be a forecast and just listen and let people hear you explain how you got there and why you got there. I mean the headlines were that we can all guarantee to expect a 4% increase every year. Interesting. I happen to know that we can go beyond that with certainty. We can go to the General Assembly in request to go over that for good reason and low and behold, the schools could be very good reasons. So we could be looking at spending even more money. And I think it wouldn't hurt. To be, I don't know, nice, kind, considerate of the people that pay the bills. And that's all people are asking. It's just give us an opportunity to plan for our own lives. I mean most of us know that the bills everything's going up. It's very little that stops but when you look when you look at the fact that the cost of education already is $25, $26,000 a child. Commercial real estate is not being built aggressively. The homeowners are always going to be 30-60 with the burden 60% on the home harness. The more information people have about this city and the want in the needs of the city can't be enough. Thank you. Because I didn't turn my mic on and time I'll just stay for the record that was Ann Sheridan from Ward 9. I was saying, I was for the record identifying you because I failed to ask you. It's not your fault, it's mine. Any other members of the public wish to speak? Mr. Chairman. If I may, the statement was made with your permission, Mr. Chairman. Once we just finish with Richard, we'll be able to hear it. Or are you just signing up for the public comment? Great. Oh, no, I'm here to speak on behalf of Mr. Ladders' proposal. Got it. I've come here on month after month and listen to him question management or the city administration about various aspects. And I have come to understand that the public is really being cut out of a lot of discussion when it comes to the mayor and the administration and the more that we can do to open this up to the public the better. Warwick is changing. There are many new people moving in mostly from the Boston area and they expect a city, open city. For instance, they're pushing for new high schools. Okay, a lot of people are saying we can't afford new high schools, but the truth is that if these people are moving in and they have higher income, you know, maybe we can afford the new high schools. But we need to have a form where the people can discuss these kinds of things. So I very much speak in favor of this. Thank you very much. Any other members of the public wish to speak? All right, seeing none, Councilman Hal. A very quickly Councilman, I just wanna say I heard in the statement from the previous public speaker it was a slam dunk for the Council people to vote for the schools. Please understand that the vote was on behalf of our constituents. The city wide voted 60% over 60% to approve the 350 million bond, million dollar bond for those schools. So we did represent our constituents. Thank you for the time. Any other members of the council? Which councilman Ghibler? I thank you for another bite at the apple. I had a point I wanted to raise before, which is that the school committee just went through a very similar debate and exercise where the chairman was pushing to hold a meeting to talk about the status of building the schools. And he received a lot of pushback from members of the body saying that, well, the schools are in flux, we're not gonna, you know, something that might be in today, might be out tomorrow or might be back in or might be bigger and might be smaller. So why are we gonna have a meeting with the public when things could change? And he told this sort of story to the members to say, you know, hey, if my wife and I were buying a house, and we wanted to look at a bunch of houses, and she wanted four bedrooms and two bathrooms and attached garage. I went to my real estate agent and said, here's my budget. And they said, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're not going to be able to get that for that budget. Would you be better off just at the end signing the documents and showing our the two bedroom house with no bathroom and no garage? Or would you be better off going together and stepping through the process so that you can see where you're going to end up? And I think it's our responsibility as the voice of the public in this city. Yeah, people can email us. Cool. But we can also, you know, offer folks five minutes to make a comment about questions they might have about the forecast. It's not going to take up that much of our time and and some of us may actually get something out of that So I'm actually renewed in my vigor to support this Any other members the council wish to speak councilman Latas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman Councilman Latas, I should add to you have one minute remaining. I'm sorry. You have one minute remaining To point out it was actually 58% of the voters voted for the schools and I also need to point out that I was the only member of the City Council that voted no on those schools. I continue to vote no on those schools and we're talking about information. We're talking about questions that need to be asked and perhaps should have been asked. Well, here we are. There's your perfect example about what you were told in what you're getting. So, again, I think that it's extremely important for the plan that the plan includes the public. It's very important that the members of the public are part of the plan because that all saying goes, if you fail the plan, you plan to fail. Thank you. Any other members of the council wish to speak? No. Council President McAllister. Thank you. Council President McAllister. Thank you. Councilman, I believe you wanted to make an amendment correct on the terminology. You didn't want a public hearing correct originally. So why don't we, we might want to just move it to the full floor, move it out of committee at this time and we can take it up to the full floor and then I can acknowledge you to. You can amend it right. We can amend it. We could, but I'm sorry. The committee only makes recommendations that be duplicating the process. So we have to do it. If you and I were like a side mark, we can. That's fine. So that would be my recommendation. We move it to the full floor and then when it comes up, the councilman can make the the amendment we can do at the one time. Move favorable action. Well I was going to make the motion to move to the floor further discussion. Doing motions have fun. The floor is still in the callister so he said it was going to make the motion so the motion is to move it to the floor at no recommendation. Do we have a second? Second motion made in second it all in favor. Hi, I guess I'll save my piece to the floor with no recommendation do we have a second second motion made in second it all in favor I guess I'll save my piece to the full floor all right, so looks like ordinance committee is concluded at 6.49 p.m Unless Lynn throw something at me Thank you very much mr. Chairman the next committee to me is the public properties and that can meet at this time. Also want to make a note that we do have public comment this evening and there's a sign up sheet on the podium there. If you would like to sign up you can speak after 7 o'clock when the council meeting starts. Thank you. the city council committee on public properties, land use and community affairs comes to order at 650. First up, acceptance of minutes from the committee meeting held on September 4th, 2024. Do we have a motion? Move, favourable action. Second. All in favour? Aye. Aye. Two items on the agenda. First is PCO-11-24. This is Councilman Snappi. It is an ordinance amending the zoning ordinances of the City of Warwick, Rhode Island. Excuse me, City of Warwick. Petitioner, Rhode Island, excuse me, City of Warwick, Petitioner, Rhode Island, Custom Builders, Applicant, 1515, Senatorville Road, Assessor's Platt, 251, Lots, 11 and 12. Councilman Snappey, do you have a recommendation? All right, recommend public hearing. Do we have a motion? Move to public hearing. Second. All right. Recommend public hearing. Do we have a motion? Move to public hearing. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of move for public hearing. Second. All in favour? Aye. So to be clear, those two items, they are going to be heard in front of the City Council as a whole, after the City Council opens at 7 o'clock, following some other items, as stated on the City Council agenda. And with that, the committee adjourns at 6.52pm. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And again, we will start the full City Council meeting at 7 p.m. and just another reminder, if you'd like to be heard before the Council this evening, there is a sign-up sheet and we do have two public hearings where you have an opportunity to speak as well on those two projects. You do not have to sign up to be heard on those two public hearings where you have an opportunity to speak as well on those two projects you do not have to sign up to be heard on those two public hearings. We will see you back here at 7 p.m.